World-Leading Scientist on the Evolution Myth, Super Humans, Genetic Engineering & Origin of Life

You are a professor at Rice in Houston. What do  you teach there? Tell us about your specialty, your your work, your professional work. I'm  an organic chemist. I teach organic chemistry, but I also do nanotechnology. So I have  appointments in chemistry as well as in material. science and nanoengineering as well as in computer  science. And so I will teach at the interface of. all of these. And uh uh that that's what I do.  I teach and I do a lot of research. I have a big.

research group there and we work in the area of  nanotechnology across from from pharmaceuticals. I I've started several pharmaceutical companies,  several materials companies, several electronics. companies. We're we have new AI memory a AI  computing/memory chips we've made and and. uh uh other memory on the market through companies  we've started. So, so we we that's what we do. We. we generate new things and publish papers,  produce PhD students and start companies.

So you're actively now you're actively involved  in scientific research. I'm actively involved in.

scientific research, not just teaching. Yes. Yeah.  That's what I do. Most of my day is scientific. research. I only lecture uh uh two and a half  hours a week, something like that. And the rest. of my time is is uh uh on the research side. I I  should say for people who aren't grounded in this, you're you're well and I know that you won't say  it, but you're you're well known in your field and. um and I'm saying that because you also speak  openly and have your entire career, I think, about Jesus and God and the fact that you are a  believing Christian. That would seem to be like.

an internal conflict. You don't hear that. And  to the extent you do, you hear that scientists. of course can't be believing Christians because  that's a conflict with science. Yeah, I've heard. that before. Uh uh I've never I've never felt the  conflict. Actually, my science makes me believe. all the more. Uh because when I see things uh uh I  understand it and it is amazing. I mean we we got. this this wooden table here and I know why this  has the properties that it does. I mean, when you.

have a tree, you can run a car right into the tree  and the car is destroyed and the tree just stays. there just fine. I mean, why is that? I know why  this has the properties that it has because it has. these carbohydrates, these polysaccharide strands  that are held together by these hydrogen bonds and. they will give a little bit. And so, you have this  this this amazing impact strength uh on a piece of. wood. I mean, the common man on the street doesn't  know that. And I know that. And I I I'm like,

"God, you're amazing. This is this is just what  an amazing piece of construction." I mean, you. take a piece of plastic, I mean, after 5 years of  things starting to decompose, certainly after 10, and you can go around the world and you can see  thousand-year-old structures made out of wood, and the wood is still there. I mean, for God to  have made a material like this, I I work in the. area of material science, and so it it makes you  look at God, you're amazing. How do you do this?

Then you look at life, living entities. I mean,  how do you pull this thing off? We don't know. how to build like this. There's a reason  why we build robots out of out of plastic. and wires and silicon rather than molecules. I  mean, every time you want to build something, what do you do? You look you look at something  that already does that and you mimic it. Well, why don't we build our robots out of molecules,  out of out of polysaccharides and polyeptides and. and and lipids and and nucleic acids? Why don't  we build? Because that's what's demonstrated to.

us in nature. We we would just copy it cuz we have  in the fog idea. It's so hard to think about how. you're going to build something out of molecules.  So what do you do? You build it out of plastic. You build it out of silicon. You I mean the these  basic four classes of components and I'm like God, how do you do this? This is what I mean I it gives  me much more appreciation for God when I see this. as a scientist. Who who has this understanding  that I have? Nobody. I mean, I look at a tree, I I see a leaf, and and I know why it's green,  and I know why why why why uh uh uh I know that.

there's a magnesium atom sitting in the middle of  a pferin, and photons are funneled funneled light. is funneled into that magnesium atom. It hits that  magnesium atom, it ejects an electron, and that. starts the photosynthesis process. So, it takes  carbon dioxide, the things that we exhale, it uses. the carbon to build the tree and then it takes  the oxygen and releases us releases it for us to. breathe. Nobody else knows it. And and I look at  a tree and I see that. I mean, I I I look at you,

I know exactly what's happening with your eyes.  I mean, there there's these bacterial these these. rodopsin type molecules that every time a photon  of light hits your eye, this thing is changing. its configuration and then it has to relax back.  And and this is why you see the image of me. Every. time you learn something about me, there's there  there it's it's just an electronic interaction. And then this is going to protein synthesis. And  then this protein synthesis as you go to sleep. tonight, it'll turn into hardwired interconnects  in your brain. Who knows this but a scientist.

And you give glory to God. This is amazing. It  It's interesting though because I think many. scientists would describe the properties of a tree  as you just did and wind up worshiping the tree. Yeah, I I Yeah, it's unfortunate that happens.  I mean, it's like GK Chesterton said, when you. stop believing in God, you you you you don't stop  believing in everything. You start believing in. anything. I mean, so you think this tree is  your god. I mean, it's so so uh um uh yeah,

it it's really unfortunate, but you know, I think  scientists sometimes give an image on the outside. that's not really what's on the inside. I've many  times sat with them and I say, "Do do you really. understand life? Do you understand how this thing  works? Do you understand what's going on here? Do. you do do you understand how these things came  about?" I've never had a scientist say to me, "Oh, yeah. No problem. I understand this. We have  a we have a pretty good grasp on this thing.".

Never. Never in private. Never in private. They'll  never say that. I've had people say, "Jim, look, I I hear you. Don't quote me, but I I'm with you  on this thing." And so, so, uh, I think the vast. majority of them agree with me, but they don't  say it. So, without even getting far, I mean, I want to get to the core question, which is  what is life and how is it created? But before. we get there, yeah, what you're what you just said  makes sense. Of course, there's no evidence anyone.

really understands any of this, but why not just  admit that? Uh I sometimes the community is not. very warm when you admit that sort of thing. You  get exclude excluded from certain societies from. certainmies when you start speaking like that when  you don't tow the party line. Um uh scientists are. just like everybody else. We we want to allay  our fears and and be part of the crowd and be. part of the group and so um we say things. But I  thought that science required well honesty above.

all and an admission that you know you don't know  something and then a declaration that you do if. you think you do etc etc but you always have to  kind of come back to what you know so why wouldn't. you admit when you don't know so you thought that  I did think that I was I was told that in school. yeah so so um sorry I actually only learned during  co that wasn't true but I didn't know that yeah. yeah many people learned during co that wasn't  true and scientists have lost a lot of credibility.

and rightly so. It needed to be lost because we're  not very honest about many things. A lot of times. we'll see things and I think that we will keep  uh preaching the same thing and and underscoring. and it and it's you have this ancestral sort of  relationship in the sense of it's peer review and. if the paper you're reviewing uh seems to come  against and discount some of the things that you.

have been saying your whole career and it's very  easy to nyx that paper and to say I don't think. this paper should be published and to give reasons  why it shouldn't be published. So, so if you if. you if you want to get grant money, you you need  to say certain things and and uh it's very hard. to come with a with something that's going to  shake up a field, it's very easy to to come in. with a with small developments, but to something  that's going to shake up a field, that's very hard. to do. The system is not made for that. Christmas  is here. That means you're eating a lot. We are.

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make sure we're telling the truth. That's my read  of it anyway. Well, I don't I don't think I don't. think that any scientists go into this thing  with dishonesty on their forefront. You know, they don't wake up in the morning, I'm  I'm going to write something false today, right? I don't think they do. And and uh we all  get brought up in this in this educational system. where we're taught something. And then as we  start researching this and we start saying, "Hey, this is not exactly right. I I don't I don't see  exactly what you're saying. That bothers people.

And I mean, I can give you examples of this. Many  times I've I've challenged the the community. I. mean, show me where I'm wrong on this. Show  me. And nobody will come forward. I mean, I have specific examples. I said, I I've even  gone so far as to say, I I don't understand the. chemistry behind the evolutionary process. I mean,  you'll talk generalities. If you want to fly over. 30,000 ft and look down, okay, you can describe  it, but tell me about the chemistry. Tell me about.

the molecular interactions that are going to have  to occur, the changes at the molecular level and. how that happens. You would think my colleagues  would say, "No problem, Jim. Let's go out to. lunch and I'll I would think that actually I'll  I'll tell you how it happens. I'll tell you what. happens." But they don't they don't they they  don't tell me how it happens. It's very rare. only one colleague in my whole career had from  from uh uh uh uh the Washington University in St.

Louis reached out to me and he tried to explain  to me. We got together. I flew out there. I mean, this is how badly I wanted to know. Talk to me  about the chemistry behind this evolutionary. process cuz I'm just not getting it. And I spent  two days with him and we got a room there in his. building and and he just took me through it. And I  I appreciated him his taking the time, but I still. walked away not really seeing the chemistry, but  I appreciated his trying. That's You flew to St.

Louis to hear this for two days. Okay. I'm I I  don't want to take us off track and I will get. back to the question of evolution and what do we  know and what don't we know, but can we start at. the beginning which is with life? What is life?  Well, what is life is is not answered by science. M there are the characteristics of life. What is  life is probably something much better explained. in the Bible. You behold and you say uh you know  h human life is this way. It's pretty corrupt and.

uh um it's fairly weak. It rebelss against God.  I mean this is this is the what is life question. But but the characteristics of life is is that  it's responsive to the environment. It has growth. and change. It has metabolism. It breathes. has  homeostasis. It's made of cells and it passes on. traits to offspring. Those are the characteristics  of life. That's very well defined by science. And. now you see scientists trying to change those  definitions and give it a much smaller number.

of those things. So it's something that they can  claim that they have made, but what they've made. is just a bunch of nonsense. It's made it's really  not life at all. It's things people have seen for. a long time. It's just really not life. I mean,  show show me show me the homeostasis. Homeostasis. is is a is a constant internal state. So, if  you go outside on a freezing cold day, your body. has to maintain its body temperature. And not  just your body, every cell in your body has to.

maintain a proper temperature, proper pH balance,  proper proton interactions, has to still make ATP, still has to carry out all of these functions.  That's homeostasis. all of these vast number of. things that hap have to happen. You show me any  one of your synthetic garbage that you say is. a is a cell and show me the homeostasis in this.  It's not there. Show me the metabolism here real. Show me that it breathes. Show show me what it's  doing with oxygen. Show show me it's not there.

And so so this is the characteristics of life. And  we every cell has it has to be made of cells. This. has always been a characteristic of life has to be  made of cells. So, we see this in every cell, but. we don't know how to mimic it. I had no idea there  was an effort underway to change the definition. of life. Who was behind that effort, and what's  the point of it? Uh, origin of life researchers, where they want to claim that what they've done  in their laboratory has made life. And sometimes.

they'll use these words, a code word. Here's some  protolife. Well, what does that mean? And then. you see it ramped up in the in the lay press.  Scientists have created life science. And it's. really quite simple, you know. This is what  they'll say. And and uh it's really simple. I. mean, even even articles from 2025 are claiming  that scientists finally figured out how to make. life. It it's nonsense. These scientists say these  sort of things. So, I mean, I've challenged them.

I said I said any of you can come on my podcast  and and and tell me about this or if you're afraid. that I'll doctor it somehow we'll go on your  podcast or we'll get a neutral party podcast. You would think that there would be lots of origin  of life scientists that would come forward and and. they say I said you can't even hook two amino  acids together. You can't even take the amino. acids D and K and hook them together without the  side chains interfering. You can't even took hook. two molecules of glucose together, let alone  a polysaccharide with with with with proper uh.

attachment using using prebiotic chemistry. You  can't do it. Am I the only one seeing this? If. I'm wrong, come on my channel and tell me how this  is done. And none of them will come on. You say, "Well, they haven't seen my challenge." No, I I  also emailed them. I also emailed them. I said, "Come on on. Come on. Talk about this." None of  them will come forward. One said, "Oh, I could. explain to you these things in an hour." I said,  "Okay, I will come to you. I will come to you, your institute. I will come to you and I will sit  there for an hour. You explain it to me." I said,

"I'll even sit there all day and I won't ask any  questions unless I don't understand something. I. won't challenge you. I'll just listen." He said,  "I'm too busy for that." I mean, so this is a this. is a game now. So, what um what are they pointing  to when they say we've created life? Yeah, they. they're pointing to their 40 years of career where  they've been saying we're on the verge of making. life. I mean, there are people that are doing  this that that that they say that they're on the. verge of making life. I mean, Jack Sausc, who was  a professor at Harvard, now he's at the University.

of Chicago, Nobel Prize winner, said in 2014 to a  gathering in New York, a gathering of lay people. in New York, that he will have life in his lab in  3 to 5 years. That was in in 2014. Guess what? He. missed his deadline. and and uh then then years  later he now says, you know, we're still working. on trying to get the RNA. Just trying to get RNA.  He hasn't even made RNA. From RNA to life is a is. is a chasm that that's that's a universewide. He  hasn't even made the RNA yet. He was making claims.

to the lay public that he'd have life in his lab  in in in uh in in 3 to 5 years. And then Dematar. Cesilov, a a astrophysicist from Harvard, said,  "Well, uh it's not going to be three to five. It's. probably more like like like five and not three.  He said at the same gathering, well, guess what? He missed his deadline. I mean, Jack uh uh Steve  Benner Steve Benner has said said on podcast, he says that that uh uh most of the many of the  that's exactly most of the many of the paradoxes.

in origin of life have been solved. Like none  of them have been solved. Zero. Zero have been. solved. In his own mind, they are solved. And  and and I challenge him on it. I said, "What is. solved? You said that they've been solved. what is  soft? Tell me about this. And he had no answer for. me. I mean, I walked up to the guy. I saw him come  to a gathering. I walked right up to him and said, "Explain it to me." And and uh uh so he he has  made these sort of comments. Uh uh uh Lee Cronin, another origin of life researcher, has said  that that uh uh within within a couple of years,

he said in in 2011, within a couple of years,  he would have made life in his laboratory. Guess what? He missed his deadline. They're  nowhere close. Nowhere close. So, so yeah, and and then this goes from their mouths when they  say this sort of thing to the press which ramps it. up and then it goes into the textbooks and it's  in all of our textbooks, not just in elementary. school, even to the advanced graduate level,  not introductory graduate, advanced graduate.

level textbooks in biochemistry talk about the  same sort of nonsense. So creating life would be. taking something that's inorganic that we can all  agree is not alive and then turning into something. that meets the criteria you described for life.  You say there are paradoxes in the origin of life. itself and they haven't answered any of what  are those paradoxes and you have to have four. classes of compounds. So there's four classes of  compounds that that build us. You have the lipids.

which surround every one of our cell structure.  You have the polysaccharides. This is the sugars. hooked together. This is our energy sources. And  some of these act as as channels through which. ions can flow. You have the nucleotides which are  RNA and DNA. And then you have the polyeptides. which are proteins and our our uh um our enzymes,  the little things that construct our body. Nobody.

has ever made those polymers, any classes, any  of those by a prebiotic root. By prebiotic root, I mean using the chemicals and techniques that  would have been available on an early Earth. That means prebiotically. Can we make some of  those structures synthetically in a laboratory? Absolutely, we can do this. Normally, what  we'll do is we'll take a cell and deconstruct. it and then rebuild the pieces as we want. Not  only can we not make the polymers of these, we.

can't even make the individual units of these in  a prebiotically relevant manner. Each of these has. stereochemistry. And people will say, well, what  about the Miller Yuri experiment in 19 in in 1953? The Miller Yuri experiment made several of the  amino acids just by taking sparks and and and this. this reducing environment and and having certain  gases in there. And they found amino acids. Nobody has ever been able to take that type of  mixture and do anything useful with it because the.

the molecules don't have handedness. Molecules can  come in in two forms, a right hand, a right-handed. and a left-handed version. Almost all biological  molecules molecules have handedness. Absolutely. So, it's important to be grateful for the things  in your life that make your life great. The stuff. that's easy to take for granted. For example,  the ability to hear. If you couldn't hear, you wouldn't be listening to this right now. Or  maybe you could, actually. Our friends at Audient.

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are mirror images of each other. If you hold your  left hand up to a mirror, you will see what looks. like your right hand. If you hold your right hand  up to the mirror, what you'll see is what looks. like your left hand. The two are not the same.  And you know that when you try to put on a glove, the glove doesn't fit right. And so they have this  mirror image relationship. Almost all biological. molecules have a mirror image relationship. So  when they will use a prebiotic method to make.

these molecules, they only get the mixture.  Biology can only run on one. It can't run on. the mixture of them. It's hard to get one. Are  there modern techniques to do this? Absolutely. Are there any techniques that could mimic what  went on on an early Earth? Nowhere close. Nowhere. close. And people say it happened on a chyro  surface. People have tried this on chyro surfaces. They've never gotten good handiness qualities.  Never. So we don't even know how to make the. basic building blocks of the building blocks that  make us. We don't know how to polymerize them.

We don't know. And then even if we had them,  we wouldn't know what to do. So for example, you can take a cell, a living cell, and you  can deconstruct it. You can take it apart. Yes. and you put in in each bottle each one of these  four classes of compounds and all the ions in. another bottle and say okay not on an early earth  but just in your modern laboratory can you take. all of these chemicals and just make a cell here's  all the components of a cell and in fact in here. you also have theformational code you have to have  the code the code is the DNA that prescribes how.

this is going to be assembled just like when  you when you build a house you have to have a. code you have to have the plans to build this  thing that that that code is is what you need. And so when I give you the polymers in full form,  that's the informationational code because that's. the sentence. The DNA, that's the code, that's  the sentence that has you the in the discrete. molecules before you polymerize them. That's just  letters. It's like a bunch of letters, alphabetic. letters. That means nothing. That has no words.  And and those don't come together and form any.

any construct of words. If you shake it a lot, you  might see the word th you might find the word in, but you're not going to get much. You're not going  to get much out of this. And and we you have to. have a lot of prescription here. So I give you  all of this in your modern laboratory. And I've. challenged the entire origin of life community  with this. I'll give you everything. Can you. just assemble a cell? And I've given you the code  because I've given you the DNA structure. Just.

assemble a cell. Can any of you do it? Nobody's  come forward. And I say that the year that you do. that, you will win a Nobel Prize for sure for  doing that. Can you do it? Nobody can. We're. nowhere close to that. Nowhere close. So even if  you could make all of these pieces, could you do. something with it? And the answer is no. They  don't know what to do. And and a cell is is is. an amazing machine. People will say, "Well, cells  were much simpler back then." Much simpler. No, we already know what the simplest cells are. First  of all, yeah, we know what the simplest cells are.

because the simplest cells that we have on Earth  today are very similar to the cells in the fossil. record. The simplest cells in the fossil record  that hasn't changed, but bioysicists have already. told us that you can calculate what is the  simplest cell that you could have that could. still be operable. They can calculate this. All  right, make one of those. Nowhere close that has. like 15 basic components, structures that have  to be made. How many of those 15 have been made. in a prebi pre pre uh prebi prebiotic sense?  How many of those have ever been made? Zero.

None. None. None of them have ever been made. We  are so far from life. And people will say, "Oh, well, we're getting closer." No, we already know  that we're nowhere close. And the way you know. in science that you know we're close is this. You  look, okay, how far am I from the target? This is. my target. This is where I am now. So, I move a  little bit closer. I figured out something. But. what's happened is the target has moved miles  away from us. The target has moved miles away.

Just even though I moved a nanometer closer here,  every year the target moves further away. Why? Not. because the cell is evolving, but because we learn  about the complexity of the cell. We go, "Oh, I have to make that or I have to do that or I have  to have the whole system level structure here that. that that this whole system level structure to  this. I have to have something called chyroinduced. spin selectivity which we didn't even know about  until 25 years ago. I have to have the whole. interact solved which we didn't know about until  20 years ago. So these things become increasingly.

difficult to think about solving. It's very hard  to to think about solving this because the target. is moving away from us fast much faster than we're  approaching it. So if we don't understand how to. create life then I think it follows that  we don't understand how life was created. No, we have no idea how life was created. We have  no idea. And and I I mean the Bible tells us that. God created it, but he doesn't give us much  details, right? He spoke it into existence.

And what I mean, the beauty of science is that  is that is that God has done things. God has done. certain things and then and then uh um he allows  us then to investigate through science what are. the details behind this. And that's what we're  trying to do. We're trying to find the details. We're clueless on this. But there is a a very  obvious sense in which the kind of research air. quotes that you're describing um is like it's  more than science. It's like trying to kind.

of take credit for creation itself. It's like  putting yourself in the place of the creator. I mean if they could make life. Yeah. if they  could make life. You you know the question then. becomes why why are they projecting why are  they projecting as if they're on the verge of. making life or having made life. I I think that's  fundamentally why that the question that you're. asking why. Yeah. And and so so why would they do  this is is uh uh um you know I I've often thought.

about this. I don't I don't think again I don't  think scientists wake up in the morning and and. and say you know I I I got to somehow project  that I'm I'm able to make life. You get caught. up in this. It it's it's like you know there's mob  mentalities that you get caught up in it. People. can get caught up in a mob mentality very easily.  you have noticed. Yeah, we're quite susceptible to. this type of thing and and uh uh what happens  is you you hear people talking about this and.

that we're on the verge of making life or we've  got this thing figured out and there's more and. more people that are coming on and they they feel  that they need to speak like this too. uh uh but. they're they're they're feel very uncomfortable  sitting down with me for a discussion because I'm. going to ask them the details and as soon as I ask  them just a few little details I'm not like a you. know I'm not a hard interviewer that I'm I got  you no I just ask them a few very simple little.

things and everything starts to wither around  the edges and they know it they know it they. know they don't have an answer to this and these  the these people I mean I mean these things have. actually happened. I've seen it. Uh Steve Benner,  major origin of life researcher. And you say, "Well, why am I calling them out by name?" Because  they're the ones bringing it forward. Steve Benner. can get on a podcast and tell me I'm all wrong and  come forth with with with life. Just make life if. you got this thing figured out. He said that that  they've got all the pieces. They've got all pretty.

much got all the pieces figured out. And so I  saw him at a meeting. Uh uh I didn't ask him, somebody else did. said, "Okay, if you've got all  the pieces, why don't you just put it together and. make a sale?" And what he said is, "Well, I've  been a professor now for for four score years, and so I'll leave this to the younger guys to do."  I mean, this is a total copout. Total copout. This. is the level that we're at. And people, oh, okay,  nice guy. He's going to leave it to other people.

to get the glory. I mean, he can't do it. Nobody  can do it. Is cloning making life? What is cloning. exactly? And where are we in the No, no, no. With  with cloning, you start with life. You start with. life. You're never making life. So So you never  make that original cell. You take cells and and. you start duplicating them or or you you take a  cell and you can put in other genetic structure. into that cell and then that that genome will  start start duplicating from there. So that you.

can start doing and I think that's coming along.  Certainly they do it with pets. I mean, you just. saw this uh Tom Brady just had his dog cloned. I  mean, he had a dog he really loved and so he just. got a dog cloned. I mean, there there are these  companies that will do it for you. Um, well, it. you know what's going it's going to be next people  is what I think about. You know, I'm I'm really. not that concerned about the dog, but uh uh when  you can start doing it with people and you can.

start making a superhuman race, I mean, that that  that is deeply concerning to me. You know, it's. interesting. You think about this. If if you have  you you you you can have you have this fertilized. egg and it seems as if this is life. This egg is  now fertilized. And God puts a spirit in this. Now, sometimes this egg will split into two. And  now you have identical twins. And if there was a.

spirit there, it's like God puts another spirit  in that other egg as well that is just formed. They just split off this first one because you  get two independent entities that are identical. twins. And they each have a spirit, the spirit of  God that he's placed within them, that he's put. this this spirit within them. They've been made  in the image of God. So when you think about it. in this context, you see that that God seems to  put a spirit along with that physical that that.

physical fertilized system. There seems to be  a spirit there that he puts along with it. What. would he do now that you have a cloned system?  My guess is there'll be a spirit along with it. But you you talk about uh uh things that you can  do. So if if if I could if I could take steroids. and be 10% faster than anybody else, I mean that's  that's a huge advantage. If I could take some sort.

of drug and be 20% smarter than everybody else,  that is a huge advantage. And we would say, you know, that's that's unfair. You know, we c  we can't have that in sports. We can't have that. in competition. But you could do that. You could  do that. I mean, you could you could make things, people, animals that are that are advanced. Um,  it's kind of frightening because you know what. people would do with such a thing? You know, every  technology has advances. People say, "Aren't you.

afraid that this technology that you're developing  might be used in the wrong way?" I say, "Yeah, certainly I think about it, but all technologies  are like that. people are are really devious and. we can figure out how to do things and control  things and weed out certain people and have others. others coming forward. So yeah, I think it's a  danger because as as the Bible says, Jesus didn't. trust anyone. He didn't entrust himself to anyone  because he knew what was in all men. You don't.

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It's increasingly obvious what's in all men.  I would say it's such a change and advances in. biotech get relatively little publicity outside of  biotech, outside of the specialized world you guys. live in. But my understanding is we're moving  close to what you're saying. And that's that's. something that at 56 I was worried about my whole  childhood. Like one of the lessons of World War II. is creepy race science is like bad. It's immoral.  You shouldn't be doing stuff like that. I mean, I remember hearing that in school and like nodding  along and yeah, that's good. And it does seem like.

we're there are a lot of well-funded people trying  to build like I hate to use a phrase master race. but like people who are engineered to be over  everyone else and that just seems like a huge. problem or am I letting my imagination get away  with me? Well, I I mean there there's massive. restrictions upon that type of thing in the United  States for government funded research and I don't. as as far as I know that's not going on in the  United States, but there are nations around the.

world where there's no inhibition on this type  of thing. So, so um I wouldn't be surprised if. they're already there. I mean, if you can clone  a dog, um, we're not that far from from doing. this as well with And what would that look like?  Well, you you you you could make them look all. identical if you wanted to, or you could make  them a little bit different. Um, they they would. be superhuman in many ways. I I I wouldn't think  that you would want to make an infirmed race. No,

that's right. Yeah, they'd be superhuman. And  um Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's an interesting. now I don't work in that area but uh uh we can't  be far from that. Now now there there are many. good advances that can come from this. So if you  have a child with a genetic disorder for sure you. you you you the prospect of saying look to see a  doctor and the doctor says don't worry we can take.

care of that. I mean imagine what that would do to  a parent. They'd be like you can take care of my. child. My child has autism. You can you can just  you can just spice out this segment and put in. another segment where you just change a few of the  nucleotides on there and he's going to be better. Yeah, we can do that. I mean, the hope for that  is so good. Or I'm predisposed to having breast. cancer as many women find themselves in their  families and they're there. I mean the horrendous. thing is that we still lop off body parts in this  day and age to deal with this and women even doing.

it preemptively and a lot of women a lot of women  and if you can say no no no we can deal with that. that is tremendous hope and that's where most of  this is going this that's why this is continuing. to be developed to offer these people hope  are there things that you could do to to. modify people yeah you can it could be abused it  could definitely be abused And it's the same with. many things. I mean, a car can be an ambulance. A  car can be a getaway car from a from a murder and.

a bank robber. I mean, everything is like that,  right? But we, you know, we arrest the getaway car. driver. And I don't I that's the point. Of course,  everything, you know, chainsaw is a tool or a. weapon. I get it. Yeah. Nitroglycerin. But I don't  think we're making any effort as collectively. to say, "Wait a second." Well, the scientific  community is Okay, good. Oh, it is. In in fact, there there there was there was uh there was an  abuse of this that came out in China about 5 years.

ago, six years ago, and it was the kibash was put  on this from the community. What was the abuse? Uh uh there there was a a an operation where  they they were taking human embryos, a human. embryo and and modifying the genome a little bit  and they they said it was all much like they had. done with with with with uh um uh uh with animals  and and it was done on a human and it came out and.

the professors I mean the Chinese professor I  think was was eventually put in prison. I mean. there was an huge amount of pressure and the  scientific community uh really came after the. people people there was there was an American who  was collaborating with them and his career was was. about ended as a result of this and uh and I knew  him. I mean he's a nice guy. I knew him. Yeah. and.

and uh uh but it's about was about the end of his  career and and I think there was a 5-year penalty. that you couldn't get government funding again  and which is going to toast a career that's the. end of the career uh for for an American academic  um so so the community came strongly against that. worldwide world worldwide biochemistry community  that's that's the one that got that made the news.

are the countries is doing this that it's not  making the news. We can only imagine. Yeah, we. can only imagine. I think we can guess. Yeah. Um,  evolution. You flew to St. Louis to hear about the. chemistry of evolution. Can you just describe for  people who are not uh in your business what the. theory of evolution is and then if you could tell  us what you think is incomplete or wrong about it. Well, you know, most of what I speak on is  origin of life, which is before you have.

life. What evolution does is it takes from that  first cell, that first cell, and says, how do we. get the diversity of what we have today from that  first cell? So most of or all of origin of life is. getting to that first cell, Luca, it's called the  last universal common ancestor. So that cell which. happened to be the progenitor of all life and that  cell then modified into the diversity of life that. you see today. That's what that's what evolution  tries to adapting to its physical environment.

Right. Adapt to its physical environment. Yes.  And and so so um to do that it's it's a huge. huge leap. A huge leap to have that cell go into  the diversity of what we have. Now you talk about. the the evolution. The the definition of evolution  is constantly evolving. Constantly evolving. It's. constantly changing. And and uh uh so what I grew  up on was that it was it was uh natural selection.

and random mutation. Exactly. Random mutation,  natural selection. That's what a lot of us grew up. on. Uh what Darwin uh uh was talking about, he was  talking about natural selection. and he knew less. about the mutation aspect and then the mutation  and natural selection is what what pulled this. forward. So natural mutation is as I understand is  the idea that you know you'll have like an anomaly. and it turns out that anomaly is is better suited  to the environment and so that creature that.

organism is more successful in breeding and then  that becomes the dominant strain. Yes. And that. that that that's what that is and then and then um  uh and but there are two distinct things. There's. something called micro evolution and there's  macroeolution. Micro evolution we definitely. see. We can see changes over time and say the  the bill of a bird. Mhm. And you can see you. can see what we do in my own lab because we work  a lot with uh bacteria and trying to knock out.

super bacteria is that you can see uh changes in  bacteria to make them more antibiotic resistance. This is what we see that that that the these  antibiotics don't work anymore and these are. very small mutations that may happen very small  permutations. More often than not what happens for. example with a bacterium is that is that you will  have a population of bacteria and you treat them.

with an antibiotic and there's one or two in this  huge population that happen to have some level of. resistance. Those are the only two left and then  they start to propagate. And so that's why if. you've ever been told to take these antibiotics,  finish the whole regime, correct? Or else you. leave the really strong ones, the really ones that  are somewhat resistant and then they become the. dominant population. And so you really want to  knock all of these out. And so so you see these. and then they start sharing their DNA between  them. And bacteria are amazing. They they even.

have these little tubules that they can transfer  some of their DNA to another one. And and you see. this and now you have a new population that that  that is resistant. That sounds like intent. Oh, it sounds Yeah. I mean, these are insidious  little things. I mean, but what is that? I mean, that that is that sounds like behavior that  suggests consciousness. Well, many people actually. say that there is consciousness within a cell  for these very reasons that they they they act.

according to the things that are put upon them.  You know, so this is a new concept that's being. put forward. It's different than the consciousness  that you and I think of course who am I? But but. but they are responding to their environment.  Something has come at them and they've responded. in in in in to try to get around this. So yeah,  this is so so well that maybe consciousness is. not the right word. Maybe consciousness is not the  right word, but that word is being used anyway, right? Yeah, it's being used. All right.  So, so you can see these small permutations,

but what you never see never see are what is  called body plan changes. Body plan changes. And. this encompasses many things, but but you you see  the these these uh genetic uh uh networks would. have to change. So, a body plan change would be an  invertebrae, something that does not have a spine, going to a vertebrae, something that has a spine.  Something like like a worm going into something. that has a spine. You never ever see that. You  never see. Now, there are hypotheses where people.

will see fossils and they'll say, "Oh, this must  have been a precursor to this." They will never. see the transformative thing. That is that is for  sure. And I'm not the only person that is saying. that. It's not just Jim Tour the creationist  saying this. And the problem with to be clear, the fossil record does not support the theory of  evolution as at least as you're defining it. Well, the yes, it does not support body plan changes.  There are small permutations like the ones that.

I have just told you, but you will not see  body plan changes. It is any fossil record. that we found. No, the the only thing that you  will see is people will hypothesize over that. fossil. They'll see a fossil here and a fossil  here and they'll say, "Oh," and then they'll see. a fossil here. This must have been the transition  to this, right? And they'll hypothesize with that. But it doesn't have to be the transition. This  is strictly a hypothesis. And so, we don't see. that in the fossil record. Many people don't see  that in the fossil record. Some people will say we.

absolutely see that. The the absolute people are  actually becoming less and less. The the problem. with this in order to have a body plan change  you you you have you have to have the these these. genetic networks these genetic networks are going  to have to change. So the genetic networks occur. very early on in life. This is the wiring that is  going to occur to run this system. You clip one. wire it is catastro catastrophically lethal to the  organism. It is lethal. Everything goes haywire.

And people will say this and there has never  been an example of this where you can get into. these early genetic networks and start changing  things because if you change one little thing you. have to have many many downstream things. So it's  not one little change can change this organism. No no no no it's not going to happen. Now we  there have been experiments like like uh Linsky. what what he's done is he's looked at bacteria.  Bacteria can can can multiply every 20 minutes,

you know. So, so with a person, it might be every  20 years. Bacteria multiply every 20 minutes. And. this is why you can feel fine right now and  then after a few hours, you're like, "Wow, right, I feel terrible. I got to go home because  this bacteria is is is doubling doubling every 20. minutes. Doubling in every 20 minutes. It doubles  its population. That's what bacteria do." And so. he has studied since 1988 and continues to this  day studying the multiplication of bacteria and.

putting it under certain stresses to see what's  going to evolve. He's never seen a body plan. change. Nowhere close. The only thing he's seen is  a little change in a in a a a citrate operation. And and I've done a podcast on that with with uh  one of my colleagues who is a who is a a a a uh. biologist and he talks about how that that change  what was actually in the bacteria was already. there and it just turned that gene back on. It was  it's just a regulatory thing. But in any case yet.

no body plan changes. We've never seen the macro  evolution, the body plan change. Never has been. seen. And here we had uh what was equivalent in  bacteria to 2 million years of population changes. 2 million years. So we and and and we've never  seen that. And so the what we see and we don't. even see in the fossil record this. What we see is  the Cambridge explosion. The Cambridge explosion.

the Cambrian Cambrian explosion is that you  went from from uh uh about 540 million years. ago is presumed when this thing happened is all of  a sudden you burst on the scene with all these new. species, all these new life forms and it happened  over a short period of time, a little over 500. million years ago is what the fossil record is  suggesting. You don't see transitional forms. You. don't see transitional forms before they appear.  They just appear as if God spoke it into existence.

as if God said uh let let these kind form there is  an explosion and even even firm people like like. uh uh uh Steven Gould who was a staunch uh uh uh  evolutionist said you know this thing just pops. out here and so he spoke about wait but doesn't  that kind of blow up the theory right there yes it. does it it it it gives evolution is is real, you  get then there would of course be a a gradual ramp.

up to that from a single cell and there is not  and there is not and that's where he came up with. this idea of what he called punctuated equilibrium  everything is in stasis then all of a sudden boom. it happened and then it stays what does that mean  punctuated that that was his definition of this so. so I'm I'm not alone in this I mean I mean Lavine  Wagner uh uh Davidson uh Irwin uh the these these. key biologists are saying the these these these  genetic networks are not going to allow body plan.

changes to happen. And so there's a big problem.  But how do they explain the Cambrian explosion? Uh. there is no explanation for that. There's no  explanation. That seems like a big stumbling. block of faith and evolution to me. Yeah. So we  should see this seamless transition if it were a. gradual process. And in the Cambridge explosion,  we we don't see that. There's this abrupt change,

an abrupt change where many new species burst  forth. So, we don't see body plant changes. So, you are absolutely right. I mean, I've I've seen  some of the things that you've said. We certainly. seen micro evolution. Now, that's why this this  term evolution is is sort of a squealy sort of. thing. You got to that that that uh um it depends  on how you define this thing. We certainly see. micro evolution these small changes within a kind  within a species you see these small but we don't. see the creation of new species through evolution  I I have to be careful of that because sometimes.

in plants you can have a doubling of the genome  so for some unknown reason and so in that in that. sense you could say it is a new species that is  formed. I I was thinking among animals, right? And. and you don't see and you don't see the body plan  change. You don't see new digits coming. You don't. see new organs. You don't see unicellular going  to multisellular organisms, which you would have. to have a lot of. You have to have luca, this one  cell going now to multisellular organisms. This we.

don't see. And uh again it gets back to this the  the this regulatory uh uh gene genetic network. This regulatory genetic network which is this  whole wiring plan. It is extremely complex and you. go monkeying with one thing in this and it and all  of this is formed very early on. And now once this. thing is formed you you change this. I mean I mean  you you you've lost a digit. It's huge and it's.

usually usually highly lethal. And again, I'm not  the only one saying this. People are going to say, "Well, Tor, you're a creationist. That's why  you're saying this." No, I mean, what what are. you going to say to Davidson? What are you going  to say to Lavine? What are you going to say to. to Irwin? What are you going to say to Wagner? I  mean, these are key guys that are saying exactly. the same thing. The the these these uh these  regulatory gene uh networks are a huge problem. Well, it sounds like everyone's moving I mean  toward your view toward creationism of some.

kind because if they're using the term design then  that of course implies a designer. Like how do you. get design without a designer? Implies designer. I  mean some people go far so far as to say it looks. designed but of course it couldn't be. And and  so they'll go as far as to say something. Now. we're getting into religious faith. If they're  telling me that they know something and that's.

the starting point against which they evaluate  their observations, that's religious faith. That's. not science, is it? Well, I I I I would agree  with you. It it it is a terrific problem for. them. It's a terrific problem and and the more  we learn about the cell, the more we see that. that this thing is an amazing entity and uh um it  certainly looks designed. So why is it given that. at best the orthodoxies around evolution that  I grew up with or thought I grew up with to the. extent I paid attention are being questioned  and haven't actually held up to scrutiny and.

and the knowledge that we've accumulated. Why is  it still considered like a dealiller to question. evolution? Yeah. So, I bet I haven't checked  your Wikipedia page, but I bet it's on there. that you've questioned evolution. Oh, yes. Yes.  Yes. It's there. It's there. Good guess. So, um origin of life is is is a little thing compared  to evolution. Evolution, that's the holy cow. I.

mean, that that's the thing you don't touch.  Evolution, there's so much around evolution. There's whole departments on evolutionary biology  in in in every university, of course. And I'm not. I would never say we shouldn't we should stop  teaching evolution. I would say that we need to. teach the problems with evolution and put those  upfront and all over so people can see the huge.

problems with this. Uh each year we're learning  more and it makes it more difficult. And I'm I'm. going to be totally blasted for this thing and  and there's going to be there'll be a hundred. YouTube videos that are going to go and and and  and try to contest with this. But my position. is getting stronger all the time. Show me the  molecular basis because I'm a chemist. I want. to see the molecular basis for this. Show me  the molecular basis on how you can have gross. body plan changes. As of right now, it is not  there. Now, if somebody knows this, come forward.

take with take me through the chemistry that makes  these vast body plan changes. I don't understand. it. And as a chemist, who better who should be  able to understand this better than me? I mean, who should be able to understand it better than  me? Certainly not the biologist. The biologist. doesn't talk at the at the chemical level. So, so  maybe the biochemist maybe the biochemist would. come forward and and show me the organic chemist  the the molecular pathway for how these body plan.

changes would occur. And no one's no one's taking  you up on that. No, nobody's taking me up. And no, nobody will. They'll make a bunch of YouTube  videos, but they won't sit down and go through. the chemistry involved. So, the question is more  philosophical than scientific, but like why the. YouTube videos? Why the resistance? It seems to me  if you never mentioned your religious faith and I. heard this, I would say, "That guy's a scientist.  He's making a completely rational case based on. measurable observations." And I wouldn't be mad  at you. I'd be like, "That's really interesting.".

But people are mad at you and mad at anyone who  questions this. What is that? Where does that. come from? Well, I I I mean, let let me underscore  it for you. I'm not I'm ba based on my record. I'm. not just a regular scientist. I think it I mean  the numbers came out a few years ago. I was in the. 0.0001% of of scientists based on the metrics  of of how you determine accomplishments. Uh. uh something called H index something called a  number of publications something called you know.

the number of citations and things like that. So  so you would think that I of all people should. be able to understand this. And why is it that I  can't? Number one, why is it that that when I say. that I can't, it causes such problems for people?  That's it right there. What is that? Now, the. YouTubers, they'll come forward and they'll start  saying it. But the expert scientists, the PhDs in. this area, they don't they don't come forth and  tell me the problems with this. They don't come.

forward and show me the the the molecular pathway  to this. The people who really should know are not. the ones coming forward. And the people who don't  know, the people who know very little, they're the. ones coming forward and saying this. That's the  problem. Why doesn't the community do this? You. know, you know, people have come with scientific  ideas before and and and and that were that people. thought was totally outlandish and then they've  been proved wrong that that that Yeah, they were.

outlandish. The whole history of science is that.  Yeah. And and so why is it that they won't come. forward? So and and and I can tell you part of  the problem is they cut your funding and they they. they make it very difficult for you. You don't get  into their societies anymore. But but what's that? I mean I know very little about science as I'm  I'm sure is obvious. I know a lot about lying and. propaganda. And I know that when you see a lot of  it, there's something underneath it that is being.

protected. There's a reason of all the things to  be mad about. someone quote denying evolution, denying like you're denying the Holocaust.  I mean, really, it's a moral crime. I mean, they frame it like you've committed like a crime.  You're not just um what is that? Like, why do they. care so much? There's something underneath all of  this that's very important if they're defending it. with this level of viciousness. I I agree. That  might be better for a philosopher to answer. When I think about the human beings that I know is  is that is first of all they've made their career.

around this thing. Our textbooks are built totally  around this thing. This is all people know. This. is all people know and and uh uh it puts people  in a position of power. We know this sort of thing. and uh um and it is it is frightening to people.  So So in in my career, I've seen things cut. I've. seen grants cut. I've I've been I've had two  people from two different federal agencies,

two different federal agencies come to my office  because they did not even want to put this in an. email to me. And they said, "You what?" Yes. They  said, "Jim, you can stop writing proposals because. they're never going to fund you. They're never  going to fund you in this agency. You're not going. to get funded." And uh I I've even had a proposal  that was that that got a very high score and. And uh um and then I I called the program  director and I said, 'What what happened?

This was the what happened? I mean, at this  score, this should have been funded. He says, "You weren't funded." It was a shock to him.  Someone above him nixed this. So, are there are. there power brokers on this now? Now, uh uh so two  federal agency people told me I can stop writing. proposals to their because you had questioned  the orthodoxy on evolution. Correct. man because. I had public it was it was even more specific  than than that in in around the year 2000 uh.

I had signed a statement that was put out that's  that questioned that that it was carefully worded. and this was sent to me in an email you know how  fast you go through emails you I got an email said. could you agree to this statement that that uh um  uh we view random mutation and natural selection. as being inadequate to explain uh uh the diversity  of life. Therefore, further research is warranted.

That's it. It didn't say it's wrong. It just  said we were skeptical of of of of this simple. little thing being able to explain the diversity  of life. Further research is warranted. Now, scientists will always say always say further  research is that scientist and because this is. how we get our money. We wouldn't say, "Well, got  this figured out. No, no, you take it back. I'm. good. You don't need the money." No, no. We always  say that because I signed that statement, because.

of that statement, these things started happening.  Uh, it was in 2005. Uh, I, you know, I was never. being put up for the National Academy of Science.  And I went to my colleagues. Your colleagues are. supposed and uh uh now no now uh there was one  person was in the they were both in the National. Academy of Science. They were the ones that are  supposed to be putting me up for this. One of them. was a Nobel Prize winner. And the other one was  was wasn't a Nobel Prize winner, but he was in the.

National Academy. And uh and just ju just so that  your audience knows it was not Rick Smallley. Rick. Smallley was a good friend of mine a Nobel Prize  winner. So it was not him. It's two other people. And they told me, "Jim, you're not going to get  in the National Academy of Science because you. signed that statement." I said, "What state?  What are you talking about?" That statement. that came to me in an email and they said, "Could  you agree to this?" I said, "Sure, I could agree. to that. Who wouldn't agree to that?" So, so I  I said to this this one, the one who was a Nobel.

Prize winner and this other I said, "You know,  I have done as much as anybody getting into the. academy." And the one Nobel Prize winner said,  "No, Jim, you've done done as much. You've done. twice as much and you're not getting in twice as  much." So So that is real. Now I'm in the National. Academy of Engineering because of that statement.  Because of that statement. That's what they said.

And I said I said to them, "What is it on this  statement that you don't like?" Neither of them. knew what the statement said. I said, "Okay, you  guys go back and read it and you come back and see. me and we'll discuss it again. We reconvened.  They went and they read it. They said, "Well, it was carefully crafted." I said, "Well, duh.  You ain't You're not going to get people to sign. something that's not carefully crafted." I said,  "What is it?" They said, "Well, that statement has. been used to try to get creationism in schools."  I said, "That had nothing to do with me." I mean, that's Oh, man. You're living my life. Um, yes, I  know. Those words have been used by other people.

at other times to do something bad. Therefore,  your connection to them proves your connection to. the bad people. I see. Yeah, I've been there. Uh,  so I'm looking at this and I'm thinking without. understanding any of the details, there's a big  story here because we can judge the importance. of something by the reaction to it. We must  suppress this idea. If enough people say that, I want it doesn't mean that idea is right. Of  course, it doesn't. But I want to know what the.

idea is because it's provoking such a reaction.  And I don't think I've heard many ideas that have. provoked the kind of reaction you're describing.  I mean this is amazing. So it makes you think. once for the third time underneath all of this is  something really big and it's bigger than funding. and it may be that if evolution as we understand  it macroevolution is not the explanation for what. we're seeing then there must be a a creator. It  points to God. That's maybe that's the problem.

I think that may be the big problem. And and and  one one of the data points I have on this is that. people see my content where I start blowing apart  origin of life and I start questioning evolution. and they write to me. They said, you know, I  walked away from my faith because of what I was. learning in high school and in college and now I  see you saying what you're saying and I see these. guys don't have it figured out. I'm coming back.  Yeah. I'm coming back to my faith. And I've had.

a lot of people tell me that they've seen what  I have to say and they're coming back to faith. Could it be then from what you just said that  evolution as it's been described to us in school. for the last hundred years was has been employed  as a weapon against religious faith. I think it. certainly has been employed as a weapon. Uh uh I  don't think I don't think a lot of scientists go. out with that intent. I I believe it. Right.  Right. And Darwin, you know, probably didn't.

try to overturn Christianity when he wrote about  the Beagle or whatever, but or I don't know, maybe. he did, but it has in effect been used that way.  It sounds like to me, it seems like it's drawn. a lot of people astray now. And I and I will tell  you that that that some of the people who used to. come against me on campus were the biologists were  the biologists. They came against me and I and I I. the students would say, "Oh, the such and such  biologist is saying these things." And I said,

"Okay, well, why don't you go and tell her that  I would be glad to go toe-to-toe with her and she. can explain to me what her trouble is with what  I say." And then she stopped. She stopped saying. things about me like that. And so, so, uh, um,  really when when you when you come right to this, uh, uh, I don't think that they can defend it. I  mean, ask them you if we don't have a molecular. basis for this, if we don't have a molecular  explanation, if you fly over New York City.

at 30,000 ft, you can say, "Oh, there's a few  structures." But it's when you get down into. the heart of that city, it's when you get under  that city and you see the infrastructure on all. the tubes and the thing makes that's the that's  the chemical basis behind this. We have to have a. chemical understanding for this. And they will  not give me a chemical understanding. That's. when I know there's a problem. It's just funny.  Maybe they're punishing you for that. I mean, you're not the one at fault here. I I wouldn't  say you you ask a simple question. Can you provide.

the chemical basis for the theory that you're  telling me is true, and they can't, and you're the. criminal? How's that work? Yeah. It shakes up the  apple cart. Yeah. Yeah. And and plus these people, their whole career has been on this. I mean,  well, I've had a lot of careers that were totally. stupid. And when you find out that you're on the  wrong side of something, you just say so and move. on. I don't understand. Why would you cling to  something that you can't defend? Um, you're a. different sort of man. I mean, this I think most  people would think that makes sense, right? Uh,

no. No. I I think people live live lies all the  time. They live lies all the time that that um uh. and and then they just move on. They just move on.  But I I I think it's it's a real problem now. Now, uh we'll see what the community says. I mean,  just come on forth. Give me give me the h how. do you how did they deal with these regulatory  genetic networks? How do they deal with this? How do they deal with this at the molecular level?  How do these changes occur? How do you get body.

plan changes? I mean, you you would think that  they'd come forward. All they've got to do is. just come forward and explain this thing to  me. Not on a podcast where nobody's going to. challen me. Explain. Go to go to a whiteboard.  Go to a blackboard and just start drawing it. out for me. Show me the chemistry. Nobody wants  to do this. This is what I've challenged people. before in origin of life. They won't go near a  blackboard. Won't go near it. Oh, I don't need. a blackboard. I'll just explain. No, show me the  science and any other thing related to chemistry. You go to the blackboard, you draw the molecules  and show me this is how you do it. This is our.

language. This is the language we speak. And  now you don't want to use the language. No, use. the language of censorship and exclusion to get  you to be quiet. Again, a familiar pattern. So, um, since you've basically described an unsolved  mystery, nobody can really say how, you know, the Earth began, life originated, and we wound up  with this sort of breathtaking array of different.

forms of life. That's a mystery. They claim it's  not, but I think you're you've shown that it is. What are the other things that we don't know?  like as you sort of gaze over what we know, what scientists have determined to be true, like  what are the big gaps? Like do we know what sleep. is for? That's the one I've always wondered. Uh  you know, I'm again I'm I'm I'm not a biologist, but I I've read a little bit about the studies  that, for example, DARPA has studied this where.

they tried to make it where soldiers wouldn't  have to sleep, right? Can we make it so that they. don't have to sleep? And then what what happens is  long-term memory goes away. So a lot of our memory. is is is strengthened when we sleep. That's why  I said early on in our conversation when I first. speak to you what you're getting this this is  electronic. I mean this is you're getting an. understanding of it electronically. And then this  goes into protein synthesis. Then proteins start. forming to give you the memories of what I just  said. And then when you go to sleep, those will.

start to strengthen and you'll get hardwired  interconnects in your brain. Yes. So that so. that the rest of your life you might remember this  conversation that hey there was this chemist that. you know 20 years ago was telling me this and I  still remember him his telling me this. That's a. hardwired inter interconnect in your brain that is  is locked in there. You lose that when you don't. sleep. You lose the ability to have that. And  so there are these things that strengthen in our.

sleep. So there's a lot going on in our sleep uh  um that that is is uh that I mean there's experts. in sleep that that know this much better than than  than I do. And I' I've talked with them at times. It's really really quite interesting how they they  study these brain waves and how how when you when. you when you really start when you start sleeping  you have all these different waves in going but. then when you sleep everything starts going in  unison and everything starts resonating in unison.

The explanation of really what's happening is we  may not have a detailed explanation. But are there. other parts of the human experience or of nature  that you look at and say that we should understand. that but we don't know anything about it uh of  natural systems. I look at at so many things in. nature that I don't understand. So I the the the  entire thing of anatomy even the anatomy of a of a.

cell is is is where I ponder all the time. I mean  how how can this be? How does this thing work? How do you build a structure like this? How does  this anything in biology is is so extraordinary? It's something we can't go near. Now, I could  try to duplicate the material of this table, and I I would build it out of a a a composite  of of of a plastic of a of a say say um a a a.

nylon plus plus carbon nano tubes, make it really  strong. So, I could try to substitute it out. But. to think of building the structure of this, no,  nobody nobody can really fathom how amazing this. is. I mean, we know what it is. It's it's it's  these carbohydrate strands and the and the these. alignments between them. Again, this is biology.  So, biology is is there's a lot of mis mystery to. biology. There there are whole courses, there  are whole textbooks. So, we understand a lot, but there's much more that we don't understand  about about even this human experience. I had.

seen a talk. So, for example, do you know this  feeling? Somebody's sitting behind you and. staring at you. Yes. And you get this feeling  that somebody's staring at me. Yes. And people. will explain this. Well, this has been good. You  know, uh uh these organisms get it because when. when prey was staring you down, you would know  it and you would know to run. All right. Well, well, okay, fine. You want to explain it that way,  but that doesn't tell me how this is happening.

How something behind my head that I cannot see,  that I cannot hear, that I cannot feel, they're. 20 yards behind me, but I know they're staring at  me. And I'm like, I want to look back at them and. and and and see what's going on. These phenomena  are are hard to understand. What might I might be. able to manipulate? Can I manipulate something  with my mind? Why is it that when when a child.

goes through something that a mother senses this?  Yes. They they they don't. My child is struggling. There's been no word. Have they called you? No.  I I I just know something's going on. How does a. mother know this? So there there there's a lot of  phenomena that we just don't understand. And even. within the realm of science, I mean in science we  are told we are told that that 70 to 90% of all. energy and matter is dark energy and dark matter.  meaning that meaning this so for example if I.

think of of of the electromagnetic spectrum we see  in a very narrow piece of this this is the visible. spectrum this is from 400 nmters to about 750  nmters this is where we see it's very narrow the. entire electromagnetic spectrum is much broader  goes from gamma rays x-rays uh ultraviolet rays. and then visible where we see And then it goes  to near infrared, infrared, uh, uh, mic radio,

microwaves, radio waves, all these things that we  can detect, but we can't see. So when people say, "Hey, I'm aware of what's going on in my world."  No, you're only aware of a very narrow bit. Now, we have tools that can detect all of this. So, for  example, I could put a radio here on the table and. it turn it on and start playing. The same waves  that are hitting that radio are hitting me. I don't feel them. The radio detects them. So,  we're able to So, we can detect things today.

that people 500 years ago couldn't detect. But  there's a whole type of matter and energy that is. called dark matter and dark energy that we have no  ability to detect. Not just with my physical body, we have no tools to detect them. That's why it's  called dark matter and dark energy. And you say, "Well, how do you even know it's there then?" Good  question. And it it's there by difference. So in.

other words, they look at the matter and energy  that must have formed in the creation of the. universe in the big bang event. And there's a lot  missing and that is what they call dark energy and. dark matter. Now that's not to say that someday  we might have a tool that we hey we can detect. this dark matter. What to us right now we're blind  to one day we will detect. And I presume you you. know every year you you know there's discoveries  I and and and dark energy and maybe one day we'll.

be able to tap into that energy and use it as an  energy form to to run our world. So there's lots. of things as scientists we don't understand.  There's far more than we don't that we don't. understand than we do understand. We in many ways  we don't even know how to ask the questions of why. don't we understand this because we don't even  know it was there. Why do we have the finetuning. of the universe? Wh why are the physical constants  the way they are? If you change the dipole moment.

of water just a fraction, dipole moment is is  the amount of electron density on one side of. a water molecule versus another. If that would  change just a fraction, there's no life. There's. no life. Everything is fine-tuned for life. How  do you have all these fine-tuning things just. for life? It would make you think that someone  designed this thing and and and everything is.

fine-tuned for life in this universe. That we can  sit on a planet that has an atmosphere and and and. that we can breathe. That we know no other planet  that is like this. That you can look up to the. heavens and that you can see the sky. that we have  an atmosphere that we can see through and we can. see the heavens. This is a very unique place. Why?  Why are the physical constants the way they are? Who made them physical constants? Why are they  the same constants throughout the entire universe? Anywhere I go in the universe, the periodic  table of elements is exactly the same. Why.

are these the kind of questions that drive you to  ponder God or that strengthen your faith? Well, my my pondering of God was much more simple to  begin with. I mean, I came to know the Lord at. the age of 18. So, I wasn't thinking much about  cellular structure and things like that. I was. actually thinking a lot about women actually at  that time. I remember. Yeah. and and and uh um.

but but I had an experience and uh uh you know  I come from a secular Jewish home. Somebody gave. me a presentation of the gospel and it hit me.  Something hit me and especially what hit me was. when he you know he he had me read a verse that  says for all have sinned and fall short of the. glory of God. And I said I'm not a sinner. Not a  sinner. I I said I never killed anybody. I never. robbed a bank, which is very secular Jewish.  You know, we don't look at little things like.

sin. It's not like Christians like I've sinned  every second. I mean, we're not was blissfully. unaware of of these things. And and he then he  turned to Matthew 5:28 and it says, I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her  has committed adultery with her already in his. heart. And I was deeply impacted by that. Deeply  impacted. And and um you say, why? I I don't know. why, but I know that when Jesus is speaking to  somebody, his words have enormous power, and it.

just stopped me. I was addicted to pornography  at that time in my life. There was no internet. This was 1977. And and uh um I just found these  magazines when I was working in gas stations. along the highway outside New York City. And my  job was to clean restrooms and parking lots. So, I've I've I've been there. I've done that. And  uh um I was addicted to pornography and and. um and so I was immediately convicted of my sin  and then he took me through the gospel message.

and I was thinking about that all the time. Couple  months later I was alone in my room. I got down on. my knees and I'm not even sure why Jews we stand  when we pray. I never got on my knees as a Jew. Christians I had seen they sit when they pray.  I got down on my knees and said, "Lord, forgive. me because I'm a sinner. Forgive me." And it was  like this piece of God just dropped on me and my. life just this burden of sin that I was carrying  just just lifted just lifted. And then all of a.

sudden to my right, Jesus is standing. Jesus  is standing. And I I turned toward him. I was. already on my knees. I put my face to the ground  and I just uncontrollable weeping because love was. pouring out upon me. Just pouring on me. There was  no judgment. You'd think he'd judge me for my sin. no judgment, there was no condemnation, there was  no threat, there was nothing but love. I never had. a day like that before. I never had a day like  that after. That was November 7, 1977. And and.

uh uh that day was unique in my life. I don't  even know how long I was there. I got up, I wiped my tears from my eyes, and I couldn't  stop thinking about Jesus. Here's this Jewish kid. thinking about Jesus. I had this recurring dream  night after night. I'm telling people about Jesus. in my dream. There's a Jewish kid telling people  about Jesus in his dream. It's very odd. And and. uh I didn't know that that was a prophetic  dream. That was prophetic. God was showing me.

what my life was going to become. I'd be telling  everybody about Jesus. If I go a week without. leading somebody to Jesus, without leading them  to faith in Christ and faith in his resurrection. from the dead, that's a wasted week for me. Just  through a one-on-one convers, if I go week, that's. my whole life is telling people about Jesus. He  gave me that in a dream when I was 18. I didn't. tell anybody. I mean, imagine telling somebody,  they think I'm crazy. I didn't tell anybody what.

happened. Two weeks later, the guy who had shared  with me several months before, he says, Jim, have you received Jesus in your heart, I said,  I I think I have. Why do you ask? He said, 'You. haven't stopped smiling for weeks. You're always  smiling now. You look different. Something's. different about you. I said, I feel different.  I said, how could I how can I stay close to God? I've never felt like this before. I was never  like this as a Jew. I was a secular Jew. I mean, and and I I never felt close to God before.  He said, 'If you read your Bible every day,

you'll stay close to God. If you don't, you won't.  And I've read the Bible every day for 47 years. I. started reading a little Gideon's Green New  Testament, Psalms and Proverbs. And then a. couple years later, I got a regular Bible and I  started reading that. I read it from Genesis to. Revelation. I'm done. I start again. I'm in no  hurry. I just just can spend an entire several. days reading in a in a in just a few paragraphs if  I feel the Lord speaking to me. And just just love. it. I love this word. And uh um you know the whole  thing of the whole addiction to pornography, it.

broke that day. I had a lot of other problems that  I still have, but that one he used to show me my. sin. That one he used to break it to show me his  power and deliverance. He broke that. You know, when when when we are delivered from sin, there's  nothing like it. There's nothing like it. I mean, we we're always crying out to God, you know, do  this in my life. do that, do that. But there's.

nothing like the deliverance from sin. Nothing  like the deliverance from sin. So people can try. to explain that one away. And I know what happened  in my life as a result. And uh um what does your. family say? Well, my my family's Jewish and and  uh I told them I told them right away. I told them. what happened. And my parents didn't say much. Um,  I learned much later that of course they weren't.

happy, but they thought it, my parents told me  they thought it was a fad. It'll pass. My I have. an older brother, older sister. They had gotten  into things and they thought it it'll pass. Yeah. But it didn't pass. It didn't pass. My mother and  then I then uh a year and a half later, I moved. into a house with with nine other Christian guys  and was owned by the pastor of a church there, the evangelical chaplain of the university. and  and uh um and she she came she wanted to see.

what what's going on uh what is this happening  and I remember I I took her to church and and. uh she was weeping the whole time. Really? Yeah.  And I said, "You were really you're really touched. by this." She said, "Why do you think I said  I was touched?" I said, "You were weeping the. whole time." She said, "I'm weeping for you. I'm  weeping for you. This New York Jewish mother. I'm. weeping for you." I said, "Why are you weeping  for me?" She says that you're here. I said, "Well, where should I be on a Sunday afternoon?"  She said, "How about the beach like any normal.

human being? That's a mother." She sounds pretty  open-minded, though. I mean, she went with you. She went with me. And I said, "Why don't you  read the New Testament and see what I'm into?". And she did. My mother was always a big reader.  She devoured books. If you saw my mother sitting. in her home, she was always reading a book. She'd  love books. She loved books. And she'd mark them. and she'd very careful reader. She read the  entire New Testament. Something most Christians.

have never done. Yeah. From beginning to end, she  read it. What' she think? She she said she said, "I don't blame them for killing Jesus. Who does he  think he is? this this guy, this young guy going. around, 30-year-old guy going around and telling  people that that uh uh your whitewashed tombs, these people are devoting their lives to helping  other people. And he's telling people that that. your whitewashed tombs and opposing them, these  people are helping everybody and he's opposing.

them. She says, "Of course, you're going to get  yourself killed for this." Well, she's actually. getting to something deep and true. Yeah. you get  yourself killed for speaking up. Isn't that what. we're talking about today? And uh and then I said,  "Okay, read read the Old Testament." Because most. Jews have never read the Old Testament. You think  they No, they're like Christians. They've never. read their own word. Yeah. And so she read the  entire Old Testament from beginning to end. That's.

amazing. And I I said, "So what'd you think of  that?" And she said, she said, uh, um, he warned. us over and over again. He warned us and he told  us this would happen to us. It's just like he told. us over and over again. And she said, "We deserved  it. We deserved it." Now, my Jewish friends, they they can't take this. I'm just telling you  what she said. I didn't say it. I'm just I'm just.

the messenger of what she said. Now, she's gone  now, so you can't come against her. But that's. what she said. She said, she said, "We deserved  it." She said, "He told us, warned us over." Well, the prophets are very tough on their own people.  I mean, they are very tough. Very tough. Like way. tougher than And that's why they were killed.  Exactly. That's why they were killed. Yeah. and. and and and and Jesus said, you know, when the  in Lukeap 11, it said the lawyers came to Jesus. and he says, "When you speak this way about the  Pharisees, you you offend us to you offend us.".

I mean, it it was uh um you know, offense is a big  thing. You offend us. And Jesus didn't say, "Gee, I'm I'm sorry about that." You know, I really the  worst thing I could have done was offend. No, he. says you lawyers, you lawyers, you are responsible  for the deaths of all the prophets from Abel from.

from Abel to to uh uh Zechariah. This this is this  is like uh um this is like us saying from Genesis. to Revelation. This is this is uh because the  way they order their books, this is this is the. encompassing way. And he says, "You're responsible  for all of their deaths." All of them. Uh um um. and and um so that's the way Jesus handled this.  Yeah. And then he says, "Which one of them didn't. you kill?" Yeah. And and so he wasn't sucking  up. Yeah. He wasn't sucking up. So So that was.

her response. But then she told me, she said,  "You know, you're going to have a lot of trouble. with your children. You know, you you you teach  them all these things and it's so religious and. everything. you're you're going to have a lot of  trouble. And my kids grew up and my daughter, my. oldest daughter was 15 and she came to visit with  my dad and and uh she went up to my daughter's. room and talked to her for 2 hours. You know, my  my mother used to do a lot of volunteer work at.

the mental health association. She was very good  at talking to people, particularly young people. Young people used to love to talk to my mom. She  came out after two hours. She said, "That's some. daughter you've got." and she started reading the  Bible again. And she started reading the Bible and. she was reading the Bible, the case for Christ and  a devotional from the Interarsity, which I don't. know where she got those. And um she called me one  morning, we used to speak every Sunday. She called. me and she said, "Uh, Jimmy, you wouldn't believe  what happened." I said, "What happened?" She says,

"I believe Jesus is the son of God." I said,  "What?" She said, "He's the son of God." I was. reading about the crucifixion. She said, "This  has to be God. Only God could go through some. something like this, not just a normal person.  Jesus had to have been the son of God." And uh. uh you know, she was um she was really moved. And  then the next week she calls me. She said, "Jimmy, you can find any damn thing in the Bible." I  said, "What is it you found?" She said, "It says,

"Husbands love the wife of your youth." Yeah. It's  the best. That's the best. And I said, "Well, tell. that to dad." She had it on speakerphone. That's  how my parents would only speak on speaker phone, you know. And um and you know, this is a Jewish  New York father and and uh I said, "Well, tell. that to dad, you know, you can." And I hear him in  the background saying, "I know all that already. I. know all that." So, she came to the Lord. And my  dad used to take her to church. She got baptized.

She went to church. Your dad took her to church?  Yes. He used to take her to church. He loved his. wife. He loved his wife. Very open-minded parents.  Very open-minded. They were good parents. Very. good parents. And uh uh they took her to church.  Sometimes he'd sit with her in church. Sometimes. he'd drop her off and then he'd come to pick her  up. And and she got baptized in in the Atlantic. Ocean. Uh and um and then what did her friends  think? Uh she told everybody. She didn't hide. this thing. She was quite open. I mean, like  I told everybody. I mean, what are they going.

to think? I remember I told my cousin, he says,  "You can't do that. You're Jewish. You're Jewish. I never thought about that.  Am I allowed to do this? And uh that's too funny. But 45 years I prayed  for my dad. I told him the gospel so many times. I read to him the entire gospel of John over a  period of about 5 days and he only fell asleep. like twice while I was reading it to him. He was  good guy. He just listened to me. He'd fall asleep.

sometimes and wake up and I'd begin again. And and  uh but on his deathbed, I said, "Dad, can I can I. you know, you knew he was dying. His mind was all  there. His body was just failing him at the age. of 94." And I said, "Can I tell you again tell you  again why why this means so much to me, my faith?". He says, he says, "I I really don't want to hear  it. I don't want to hear it." He was being nice. He says, "I just don't." That night, a Jamaican  night nurse came in to take we we we hired a nurse.

just to sit with him all night long. Um and and uh  she started sharing with him. She said, "You know, there's the picture of your wife. You want to be  with her? You can be with her. You can receive. Jesus right now." She said, "You want it?" She  said, "He nodded." He said, "Yes." So, she called. in another nurse. They all held hands and they  prayed with him and he she said he extended both.

hands to the heavens and it just the whole room  changed and he came to the Lord right there and. the whole attitude about his life changed and and  uh my sister saw this and she was amazed. She was. amazed and and uh he died 4 days later. He died  in the Lord for 45 years. I prayed for that man. He came to know the Lord. That's incredible.  Nobody can tell me this doesn't work. I mean, the the gospel message is not a sham. I see this  over and over again. I told you every week I see.

somebody come to the Lord and I get inv in in  involved in daily reading of the scriptures. starting in the gospel according to John. Slowly,  pensively, I teach them how to read slowly reach. each verse twice. Then break it up. Think about  that. In the beginning was the word and the word. was with God and the word was God. Stop. Read it  again. In the beginning was the word and the word. was with God and the word was God. Now break it up  in parts. In the beginning in the beginning just.

ponder that in that means before there was time  before there was anything. In the beginning was. the word. Word is information. Everything starts  with information. You cannot build a cell without. the informationational code. Everything has to  have information. There was informationational. code DNA that from the acorn that started this  tree that made this table. Information. You have. to have information pre pre is a prerequisite  to everything. In the beginning was the word. and the word was with God and the word was God.  That word was God. The next verse says he was in.

the beginning with God. Puts pronoun. He was in  the beginning. He the word is a he. This is an. individual. You get to verse 14 it blows your  mind. The word that word that was with God and. was what? The word became flesh and dwelt among  us and we saw his glory. Glory as of the only. begotten from the father full of grace and truth.  We saw him. We saw him. He became flesh. That word.

that information that was God took on human flesh.  I mean you see this and what happens is the Bible. says that that that uh uh God no man can approach  God and live. No man. And which makes sense. You look out and you you see this whole universe.  Look out through the James Webb telescope. You see. colors everywhere. Each one of those is a galaxy  that God created the entire molecular level for.

us to have life. And then the atomic level from  which the molecules are made from and then the. subatomic for each one of those atom everything  that whole dimensional difference. He created the. whole thing. It's no wonder why we cannot approach  him. He dwells in in in in a light that we could. never be near. But he says, "I want to be with  them." The Bible tells us in in Hebrews chapter 2, he took on flesh and blood because his children  are of flesh and blood. That's an amazing thing.

He took on flesh and blood because we are of flesh  and blood. You know, we have cancer patients stay. in our home sometimes because we live right near  a big cancer center and and uh uh you can't it's. too expensive to stay in a hotel for 3 months,  6 months treatment. And so sometimes a child is. getting treatment and they will lose their hair  just like an adult loses their hair. And so the. mother or the father will shave their head  in solidarity with that child. And the child.

is different. They're like, "None of us ever.  We're we're all together. We're all together.". This is what Jesus does. He took on flesh  and blood because we have flesh and blood. in solidarity with us. And he says, "If they come  as an adult, they'll feel me. I'll be born among. them." When one is born among us, we're not  intimidated by them. We're not afraid of them. They're born among us. And he's born among and he  teaches us how to have relationship with God. He. says, "This is how you do it. You don't have to  be a monk and go up on a mountain. You just live.

among your own people. just wake up early in the  morning, go off and enjoy God. Just enjoy God. And. and how he loved the scriptures, how he quoted the  scriptures over and over again. He demonstrated. it for us. This is not a sham. I see lives change  all the time. I see people come to the Lord. When. I get them in this, their marriages change, their  their children change. I see them writing to me. after a year, two years. I'm back together with  my wife. My kids are turned around. I a guy just.

wrote to me this week. I'm getting baptized with  my son. and you led me to the Lord one year ago. He says, "Now my 13-year-old, who was sitting in  the same room when you talked to me over the Zoom. conversation, he's getting baptized with me." It  changes lives over and over again. The gospel is. not a sham. This is real. This is real. It is  true. Every word in the scriptures is true. And. and I am a public testimony of this over and  over again. I see this thing being borne out.

Do you feel like something is happening in this  country or world where this is accelerating? There's more awareness of this of God. More  awareness of God. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's more. awareness of God. I see something accelerating  toward God. People are becoming more aware of. this. Yes. Yeah. I I do see that. People say,  you know, what's it like working with students. today? You look I I've been I went to the campus  when I was 18, right after my 18th birthday, and I've never left. I've never left. I've been on  college campuses since I was 18. So for for almost.

50 years, this is where where where I am. And I've  seen students all of this time and uh uh uh I see. the gospel works the same on students today as it  ever did. And I see people I I I mean there's a. lot of mess in the world, but there's always been  a lot of mess in the world. Ask the Koreans what. ask ask what it was like 50 years uh 70 years ago  in Korea, right? I mean I mean things were a real. mess. I mean and the world has been a mess over  and over again. But yeah, I mean there there's a.

lot of discussion about God. And I think even  science is pointing us more and more to God. I. mean look look at this. Look at the creatures that  we are. How do you build one of these? How do you. do this? How do you pull this thing off? And now  we know so much more. This is not this is not it. used to be a cell was a bunch of protoplasm. Now  it's like this. It's this factory. is this factory. with all these levels of systems level engineering  in every cell. How do you do this? This is.

amazing. So the more you know, the less you know  and the more it points you toward a creator. Yeah, I think that's certainly true. The more you know,  the less the more you realize you don't know, right? And for me, it points me toward a creator  over and over again. I'm I'm looking at this. I. mean, this is all I do. I sit in my office and I  just go through chemistry. I mean over and over. again I'm just doing chemistry reading papers  and writing propos I mean you stare at this you.

say god how do you do this I remember my my my son  who you whom you've met he was he was three years. old he came running toward me we were building  a a molecular brain we were building this this. this this synthetic brain where we were taking  molecules in a disoriented array and you'd get. voltage pulses from the outside you you you you  couldn't map the thing but we just give voltage. pulses from the outside to program it to do the  function that we wanted it to do and we could just. get little tiny things an andgate an orgate little  simple things and then one day I'm sitting at at.

the kitchen table thinking about how we're going  to build this and he comes running toward me and. I said Lord how do you do this how do you build  one of these how do you do this there's all this. motion all this action and all this comprehension  and all this awareness and all this consciousness. and I'm trying to build a little orgate and and  uh and and I can't do it and and it's all this. how do you do do this. We don't know the internet  connect pattern of the molecules in our brain or. of the neurons in our brain, but we use it all the  time. I mean, with a computer chip, you know where.

every device is. Everything is perfectly placed.  You better know where everything is. And here, we use our brains. We We don't have a map of it.  And we use it all the time. It's extraordinary. And And I look at I look at life and I'm like,  "This this is amazing. Amazing." and and and and. then I I used to just purposely sit outside  and just wait for mosquitoes to come because. they they're flying tiny little tiny little brain  and there's all this coordinated flight and I'm.

emitting something that's calling them. Yes. And  now as soon as they sting, they fly away and then. more he's called his friends. You know, here's  a hunk of meat and they're coming right back to. the same place. They're coming right back. They  know where to come. And so he's signaling them. So there's all this sensors from very small  amounts of these these pherommones. Very small. amount of these small organic molecules have been  emitted and they have these amazing sensors that.

that then they converge on you. How how do you  do that? How do you pull this thing off? I mean. you need code. You need genetic code. You need  information for every one of these things. You. can't tell me there is no God. You can't tell me.  I mean, who who should understand this better than. me? Really? I mean, I'm not trying to speak this  proudly. It's just that I understand the molecular. level as good as anyone else in the world. As good  as anyone else in the world. So, if anybody should.

be able to understand it, I should understand it.  This is amazing. Just amazing. This world, this. creation. And so, so I see God and I say, "God,  you are amazing. This is extraordinary. I mean, how you pull this thing off." and he allows  us as scientists to explore in this little. nano domain of his creation and and and and just  get excited about it. I can't believe you teach. at university. It's amazing. It's wonderful.  It's such a great sign. Oh, I love teaching. I love I I love teaching even introductory organic  chemistry. I like to take them just right from the.

beginning. It's like it's like I take somebody  to the Grand Canyon and I've seen it many times, but they're seeing it for the first time. I just  want to look at them and see like, wow, that. that's what it's like teaching organic chemistry  for the first time. Let me show you what these. organic molecules can do. Let me show you how they  do this. How you can you can look at a structure. and predict what's going to happen when you take  two molecules and put them together and why they.

do what they do and why the reaction takes place  and why it's fast or slow. Is it explosive or do. you have to heat it up? you know, they learn all  this and why why does deodorant work the way it. does? Why do these chemicals do do what they do? I  mean, how is it, you know, why why does wood have. the structure that it has? Why why do fabrics why  why do why do you walk across a a carpet and the. fibers spring right back? What made them spring  back? Why don't they stay down when you stepped. on them? I love to be able to explain this and and  just open up the world to them and show them this.

This to me is really exciting. Professor  Jim Tour. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, it wasn't that long ago that many Americans  thought they were inherently safe from the kinds. of disasters you hear about all the time in third  world countries. A total power loss, for example, or people freezing to death in their own homes.  That could never happen here. Obviously, it's. America. People are recalculating, unfortunately,  cuz they have no choice. The last few years have.

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