Will Trump Split From Israel Over the Gaza Genocide? Israeli Journalist on Netanyahu’s War Crimes

Gideon, thank you so much for joining us.  For Americans who are distracted by what's. happening in Iran and with the US economy and by  so many other things, can you bring us up to date. on what is happening right now in Gaza, the West  Bank, Judea Samaria, and Lebanon? It's a war with. with some interruptions. It's a roller coaster.  You go to sleep in Tel Aviv with a ceasefire. You.

wake up in the morning with ballistic missiles  over your head. Gaza is leading and totally. forgotten. I guess we'll have the opportunity to  talk more about Gaza, which is very dear to my. heart. In Lebanon, Israel is fighting for nothing,  without any purpose. People are killed, villages, all villages are being destroyed systematically.  very similar to Gaza. Israeli soldiers are killed. on a daily basis almost and the whole thing  seems like an ongoing war without any purpose,

without any justification and above all  without any endg games, any real goals. What will stop it except of this desire to  fight and to fight and to fight and to kill? What is the point? You say there's no point to it,  but it it clearly is part of a larger strategy. I.

would assume. I mean, it it's got to be. What What  do you think the the bigger point of this is? So, first of all, Israel was brought to believe that  it is doomed to live on its sword. that the only. language that we can talk in this region as we are  the fa in the jungle so to say the only language. that we can use here is the language of military  power and as brutal as possible. This was before.

Netanyahu. Many things by the way were before  Netanyahu. Netanyahu intensified those things. and today the only language clearly that Israel  is speaking is the language of war. Anything can. be solved only by war. Nothing can be solved  by any other way like diplomacy, compromises. etc. And here we are involved in so many fronts.  You know Tak there are around six million people.

in the Middle East who were expelled from themo  from them from the homes who are uprooted. part. of them will never see their homes again. 2  million in Gaza, 1 million in Lebanon. For. a while there were also 2 million in Iran. Now  not anymore. But think about this. All of them. because of wars of choice. All of them because  of a very violent policy of Israel which might.

here and there have the justification like  after the 7th of October. Another thing that. I I think we'll get into, but the proportion,  the scale, and where are we aiming? Where are. we aiming for God's sake? Is Israel today a  better place? Is it a safer place than 2023? Is it more popular in the world? What did we gain  out of all those course? And unfortunately, Taka,

those questions are hardly being discussed  in Israel. And this in many ways depresses. me almost more than the wars itself. The fact that  a whole people 10 million people very intelligent, very ideological and and with very clear  views go to all those wars blindly and. automatically without asking ourself why, what  for, what do we gain? Put aside the moral side.

Let's say morality morality is for you know  spoiled giddon levies or or leftist self-hating. Jews practically are we are we living in a better  place the answer is unfortunately not you can add. to it obviously tak the the all the personal  motivations of Benjamin Netany which in my view. are not exclusive they are not the only there are  those my friends who think that he does everything.

only for his career only in order to stay in  power. I give him more credit because I think. he has an ideology a very dangerous one but he  has an ideology which motivates him as well. But. no doubt that those last wars serve first of all  his personal interest. He has tri he's doing very. badly in the in the polls and here he comes with  another war war after war. I want to ask why did.

we have this lead to bomb in Beirut two days ago?  What did we achieve by this bombardment? Israel. achieved anything out of it except of provoking  Iran and then we got this sleepless night last. night with dozens of of ballistic missiles over  our heads. No one talks about it. No one asks it. And it's quite depressive to live in a society  in which the main issues are not discussed.

We discuss the wife of the prime minister. We  discuss all kind of gossips. We don't touch the. core of the issue. I'm I live in a country very  much like that. So I I know the feeling. Well, um, but just to stay on the point that you made  about the practical effects of this, leaving aside. the moral stain, whether it's the right decision  ethically or not, but as a practical matter, you. have to wonder how many wars a country as small as  Israel, just physically small, with a population.

that small and an economy that small, just a  little country, how many can you fight before. you you risk, you know, real retaliation, risk  your own exist? existence. I mean, how dangerous. is this? Fortunately or unfortunately, Israel is  a regional superpower from the military point of. view. And no other country in the Middle East can  can beat Israel. They just can't. If they could,

maybe they would. But Israel has still a very very  strong army with devices, technology, ammunition. and arms that your country was kind enough or  too kind to supply Israel blindly and almost. without conditions or limits. And Israel has the  military answer almost for any challenge. And this. is on one hand obviously very good because we  are safer. On the other hand, it corrupts also.

a country because it let Israel to go wild to go  to all kind of military adventures knowing that. by the end of the day we are not endangering the  existence or all real assets but because we are. always stronger and we won all the wars military  politically we lost them all. Is there a concern. that the United States in the next, I don't  know, 5 or 10 years might begin to withdraw.

its unconditional support for Israel? You say 5  10 years and I would say 5 to 10 months. Yes, I. agree with you. It's happening right now. I think  that we are reaching a stage in which we will face. a major shift in US policy toward Israel. Biden  was the last Zionist, so to say, president. Donald.

Trump was the last one who accepted almost all the  ideas, the craziness of Israel. And and until now, we still have time to see, but until now, he went  along the Israeli psycho. But the next president, would he be Democrat or Republic? One thing is  sure, those relations will be challenged more or. less, but they will not go anymore automatically  and blindly. Maybe the aid will continue,

but at least it will be conditioned. The problem  is that it's you know what you want to supply. Israel. You think that the Israel Is Israel is  the most the country that it is at need more than. any other country in the world and you want to  supply it with everything like any country in the. world. Fair enough. Put some conditions put some  conditions according to the American interest. Israel is not following neither the international  law nor the American advances for many many years.

United States is speaking about the two-state  solution for decades and Israel is just ignoring. doing anything possible to sabotage this idea.  I think this is over and it's question of months. not of years maybe still in Donald Trump's time  maybe the next president and then Israel will be. in a real problem because without the United  States in its current position this will be.

a challenge that Israel never faced before in  my view much more dangerous and existentially. dangerous than the nuclear of Iran. Well, there's  nothing like waking up feeling like you actually. got a restful sleep. Unfortunately, it's hard to  do that. That's not a byproduct of just getting. older. It is directly tied to your hormones, your  body. Our friends at Joy and Blok are ready to. help you. Blok was built for men who are feeling  tired of feeling like a shadow of themselves and.

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joy andblo.com/tucker. Use the code Tucker for 65%  off your labs and 20% off all supplements. Huge. discounts. That's joy andblok.com/tucker  code tucker for 65% off all your labs, 20% off your supplements. Get your edge back  with joy and bloss. I I agree with that. Do do. others in Israel see that coming? And what do they  think of it? What is the view of the United States. and Donald Trump in Israel? So Donald Trump, as  you know, is more popular in Israel than in the.

United States. Yes, actually he's more popular  in Israel than any other place in the world. uh it can change obviously if he will change his  attitude and the problem is again that the Israeli. discourse does not touch those questions we don't  speak about the occupation we don't speak about. the party we don't speak about our relations and  our independence on the United States you know we. are now in a stage of dependence which we never  faced before I don't think Israel ever faced such.

dependence of the United states because all the  because all the rest of the world you know how. is treating Israel and what do the majority of  the people in the world what do they think about. Israel polls show what a pariah state is and in  many ways rightly so and here comes the United. States and if the United States will change its  policy what will Israel do how will it go on even.

military not to speak votes politically in the  international arena. Europe is just waiting to get. a green light from the United States to change its  policy toward Israel. Europe is paralyzed because. of the fear of Donald Trump and the United States.  Once the United States will shift its policy, I'm sure that you will see big major shifts  also in Europe because the public opinion is.

by far more hostile toward Israel than the  governments in Europe. This will have to be. expressed by policies by real measures not only by  articles in newspaper. So we are facing a really. horrible challenge in the coming months not in the  coming years and there is no one to deal with it. We still think that we can do whatever we want.  And this s tak got such a boost after the 7th of.

October. Israelis tend to believe that after the  7th of October we have the right to do whatever we. want and this is very dangerous. Yes. That it  it's interesting. Everything you said is very. clear from here. Um it matches my perceptions  exactly. But you say no one is saying this out. loud in Israel and if he says nobody would listen.  Yeah. No. Look, major principal issues are not.

discussed in the last three years. You cannot  express it. We are still victimizing ourselves. about the 7th of October. We are still victimizing  ourselves as the David against the golads. The. whole Arab world wants to exterminate us to push  us to the ocean and we still believe that we are. the chosen people. Yes. If you will scratch under  the skin of every Israeli I believe secularists.

and religious. You will hear again and again. No,  no, we are better. We know better. We are better. Take for example the international law. Israel  is very much in favor of the international law. It was brought to the world after after the  Holocaust, after World War II. Israel is very much. in favor of it, but it is not a Bible about Israel  because we are a special case. And therefore,

the international law cannot be applied to  Israel. And if you dare to apply to Israel, you'll be labeled as an anti-semit. How dare you?  We are a special case stucker. And this way of. thinking must bring Israel to very dark allies to  very dark corners which I don't know how we'll get. out of them. And I'm sorry that I'm so pessimistic  but the last three years we we went too far. Too.

far. Yes. Well, you you see this with individuals  and not just countries. It's called hubris in. English. And it usually doesn't end until there's  a lot of suffering and people wake up from their. delusions about I mean I think it happens to every  man. It's happened to me and but it happens at the. at the scale of a nation too. It's sad. So let me  ask you about Gaza. What is the point of Gaza in. the US? Our media says the point is to dismantle  Hamas which is a terror organization effectively.

illegal in the United States to say nice things  about Hamas. What is Hamas from your perspective? And is the war in Gaza or the military bombardment  of Gaza designed to end Hamas? Is that true? No, Tak. And and this is a conclusion that I came to  just recently. It's very clear for me that the war. in Gaza is a war to crash the Palestinian society  in Gaza and finally also to make them leave. Now,

how do I know it? The matter of fact is that  Israel is opposing any kind of deal about. Gaza. It's not that they don't want Hamas, but  they don't want also the PA. They don't want an. international force. They don't want nothing. They  want the people of Gaza, over 2 million people, both of them living now in tents. I have some  friend and old age friends who are living now two.

and a half years in a tent without electricity.  close friends. One of them is after a stroke lying. on the ground on the sand for two and a half years  now without his medicines. I mean I can't describe. you his his agony, his suffering. Israel wants to  crash the society. you know to make them you know. a bunch of handicaped wounded traumatized society  without leadership without any functional society.

any functional institutions why are we opposing  that kamas will write run the civil life in Gaza. they are the only one who can do it right there  is no one else why can't they be the teachers why. can't they be the the the the lawyers the judges,  the the the street cleaners, the policemen. No, we say no because we don't want all this to exist.  We want anarchy there. And then will come the real.

wet dream of some Israelis not all of them to get  to the real I don't want to use the word final. solution but to get to a real solution which will  last namely to push them to the south and then. from the south to try to find them another place  on earth which will they will never find. But you. cannot explain otherwise the the the attitude  of Israel towards solving the problem of Gaza.

Israel would have really liked to get a solution.  She would have had to come up with a a an idea. of how to make Gaza a livable, viable place and  society. Israel is doing all the opposite that it. can. crashing the society and I'm afraid that  the next stage will be the West Bank crashing. the Palestinian people and not only militarily  making it a a non society because many Israelis.

truly believe that it's either us or them and I  believe it is us and them but I'm very lonely in. Israel now if if the government of Israel were to  succeed in expelling almost 2 million Palestinian. Inians from Gaza and then took it over. Does  anyone believe that is itself a solution? I mean, it's obviously a crime, but the long-term  repercussions from that will destroy Israel.

It see would seem to me that just seems un take  the moral calculation out of it as a practical. matter that seems insane. Why? It worked very well  in 1948. The first Nagbar The first Nagbar was was. a hell of a success. We expelled over 600,000  Palestinians. We destroyed all the villages. We didn't leave anything except of some mosque  and some graves. All the rest totally destroyed.

Covered it up with with trees and nice parks.  And it worked. And me as a child growing up. in this place, born here, growing up here, you  know, the first time I heard the word nakba was. when I was 20, 25. I never asked myself what are  those ruins around me here and there in Tel Aim. in other places. Never thought that maybe someone  owns it. Maybe someone is living now in a refugee.

camp instead of his home. those things were  totally oppressed and were not legitimate until. now they're not legitimate. So the first Nagba  was ahead of a success. Why not to continue? I. mean for those people I don't say the majority  of Israelis want this to happen. The majority. of Israelis has have another disease namely being  apathetic and indifferent. But the right-wingers.

for sure they want it to happen and they are the  only decisive part of the of the of the society. The settlers, the right-wingers, the fascists,  they are the most powerful and most active. They. have at least a plan. What plan do the leftists  in Israel have? The Zionist left. What do they. suggest the alternative now the opposition? What  is their idea? What is their plan for God's sake? They are opposing our two-state solution. Yield  the others say they say the head of the opposition.

yes say that not in the coming 10 years another  10 years which it's not coming and meanwhile I. believe that the two-state solution died long  time ago. We missed this trade but in any case. what do you suggest? What are we suggesting to 7  and 12 million Palestinians who live between the. river and the sea together with 7.5 million  Jews who are living between the river and.

the sea? What are we offering them? Apartheite  forever. The right wing at least a claim. Yeah, we'll expel them one day. When pregnancy happens  unexpectedly, everybody talks about the mother and. that's understandable. But what about the father?  The other half. He's always an afterthought, pushed aside, left to figure out alone, or told  that [music] his feelings don't really matter. But think about what that actually feels like.  You want to step up, but you want to do the right. thing, but you're terrified. That's exactly where  Pre-born comes in. Pre-born puts you in touch with.

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Wh where do they imagine millions of Palestinians  will go if they're expelled? That's the weak part. of their fantasy because they don't believe they  will find the place they were looking for. As you. know, even in recent months they look in Somalia  and Aritra and God knows where Africa all kind. of places we give them money and we'll send the  person didn't work and it will never work. I mean,

no country in the world will accept millions  of Palestinians. No way. Egypt doesn't want to. get them. Obviously, and rightly so. Jordan had  enough with the refugees of 48. Lebanon adding. enough from the refugees of 48. They have no place  to go. But the fact that this idea is motivating. the present is by itself very dangerous. Maybe  finally it will end up like the Native Americans, you know, totally forgotten. be in all kind of  reserves living without any heritage without any.

anything in common. A bunch of people who who lost  their identity. Maybe this will be the end most of. the Palestinian people if it will go on like this.  Is the United States government doing anything to. restrain Israel in these plans that you can tell?  I think the United States is a full partner. Look, we cannot think that what Israel is doing knowing  the dependence of Israel on the United States. We.

cannot say that the United States is opposing  it. You know, all the big liberal presidents, above all, Barack Obama with his wonderful,  wonderful speeches and ideas. I had tears in. my eyes when he was elected. What did he do? Did  he stop Israel? his his military aid was bigger. than any other president unconditioned. So the  United States is a partner for everything. If we.

talk about genocide in Gaza, the United States is  a partner if you like it or not. It's not the main. partner. Our accountability above all, but you  know they supply, they support and they could do. differently. It's not like you say you know some  country in Africa who wants to stop a genocide but. it can't do anything. United States has the skills  has the leverages to stop and he never never did.

not the settlements. When did the Americans stop  the settlements which is much more innocent than. gen than a genocide. What did they really do to  stop the settlement project? They could in one. form put an end to it. one phone call in which  they would say I'm oversimplifying it obviously. one phone call saying listen if you build one  more terrorist in the occupied territories. there's no aid to Israel period and in this day  the settlement movement would have died but there.

was no president to do so so the United States  if you speak about the settlements United says. he's a partner if you speak about the war in Gaza  you may agree with me that it was genocide or not, it doesn't matter. The United States is a partner,  a major partner with moral responsibility. Yes. Everything you're saying is true and provably  true. These are not opinions. These are facts.

What what is up for debate is why why has a  succession every US president since Harry Truman. in 1948 gone along with this? Why has there been  no meaningful condition attached to any of this. aid military and economic? Like what is this?  I think it's up to you to answer Ter. For me, it's a big mystery really. There were years in  which I really felt that we don't know who is the.

superpower between the two. Yes, there were those  years that Israel really put the United States in. its small pocket as we say in Hebrew. Totally  ignoring, you know, totally ignoring advises, condemnations, threats, totally ignoring it, doing  whatever it wants without any restraint. And I. asked myself, how come with all this money and  political aid, United States is paying a hell of.

a price? I don't have to tell him for the support  to Israel. And again, please continue to support. but put some conditions to this. I have no answer.  It's a mystery. You know, to say that it is the. Jewish lobby will be oversimplification because  it cannot be that one minority is so powerful. Not. only it's anti-semitic, but I don't think it can  be the full answer. Yes, the Jewish lobby was very.

powerful for many years. Not enough. United States  does not share the guilt feelings of Europe. There. the guilt feelings about the Holocaust are very  influential and stay in the back mind of any. politician in Europe. In the United States, you  don't share any guilt feelings toward Israel. I. don't know. You should you should answer this.  I for me it's mystery. I don't have an answer. myself. Um and I I agree with you. A Apac is very  powerful. Apac is disgusting from my perspective,

but they're not powerful enough to do what  we're seeing now. So, I I agree. Um I only have. theories, no real answers, but it is a question  that we should be thinking about, I think. Um what. is the board of peace, do you think, in Gaza? Yes.  The president has announced this international. board that's going to run Gaza uh to redevelop  it as a real estate project and put it casinos.

and make this beautiful new world. Um he has said  but I think most Americans are confused as to what. this actually is. Do you have any idea? No and  there is no idea. There were very nice ceremonies. as the president like did they renovate one house  in Gaza? We are now almost three years one house. was renovated one institution. One person in Gaza  can say that he lives human life now one in the.

entire Gaza street. I don't know what they do, but  I know one thing that as long as we will not see. facts on the ground, it's meaningless. There were  so many so-called peace councils before with all. the after inch attack of Israel, major attack on  Gaza. There was always a huge conference somewhere.

in Europe or the United States with a lot of  surprise I say a lot of promises to rehabilitate. Gaza to bring a lot of investors to Gaza to  rebuild Gaza. I me personally I was once I will. never forget this day invited to a launching of a  new hotel in Gaza which was supposed to be like a. resort place for Israelis. two weeks later started  another war and the place was totally destroyed.

So all the talking about rebooting Gaza are not  valid even if the money is there and the money is. also not coming there because there is not polit  no political plan for Gaza it's very nice your. good intention to build casinos there first of  all who is going to run Gaza will Gaza will be. a free place this is the first question not the  last question first of all guarantee the freedom. of Gaza it is impossible able that 2.5 million  people will not even have citizenship. Tell me.

Taka, which people in the world lives without  citizenship of any country. The most oppressed. people live with citizenship. Those people in Gaza  have no citizenship, no passport of any country. Is it sustainable? Is it acceptable? We are in  2026 that this phenomena will continue again. It's not only that they don't have there's no plan  for the future. no vision, nothing. So I cannot.

take it seriously. By the way, like also this  horrible aid organization that the American had. before, as you know, I I saw your unbelievable  conversation with with Dr. Minard the British. surgeon from Oxford which you talked with in in  my view and really shaking conversation. I was.

so shaken by this conversation of you and listen  to him what he has to say about this organization. who was supposed to bring food to Gaza. How many  people lost their life on the lines to this food. again America initiative. So th this will not be  the solution. You first of all have to make Gaza. a free place and then you have to find a way to  let Gazani be run by itself. They are human beings.

like any other human being. Let them build their  own institutions. They deserve it. By the way, I. agree so much with Dr. Milard because he described  in your conversation how much he loves the people. of Gaza. If there is one place in the world in  which I would love to be one more time in my life, this is his Gaza. I mean, I know that for most of  the Israelis, this sounds insane. But I wish more. Israelis would have met the people of Gaza, the  courage of Gaza, the sense of humor of Gaza. But,

you know, if I say it in Israel, they think they  they hospitalize me. I guess [laughter] the whole. point of keeping a gun at home for self-defense  is to defend yourself and your family, especially. when you're not expecting a threat. You don't  know when the threat may arise. [music] You have. to be able to get to your firearm quickly,  but prevent other people from getting it. illicitly. [music] Well, Stopbox Pro is the  answer. So, storing your firearm used to be a.

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interest. It's very interesting because Israel, as  you know, has a free media, a free press, most of. it private owned, private owned. And we are free  to write whatever we want. I'm the best example. I. have total freedom of speech. The problem is that  because of commercial considerations, they want.

to please their viewers, their readers and not  to bother them. This goes on for many years. The. occupation is not covered at all in Israel. And  then came the 7th of October. Again, I'm getting. back to this crucial day which changed Israel.  Changed for many years, I'm afraid. And after the. 7th of October, it was very clear to every Israeli  that we have no interest in Gaza. Why would we.

bother about Gaza? They are all terrorists. They  all kamas. And the media cowardly stopped stopped. covering Gaza. I can ensure you tak that any TV  viewer in Omaha, Nebraska saw so much more of. Gaza than a Tel Aivian who lives next to me. I can  assure you. And they don't want to see it. It's. not that they want to see it and the media doesn't  show it. No, we don't want to hear. We don't want.

Look, c can I give you an example, please? I I'm  coming Monday is my travel day to the West Bank. I. traveled today to the hospital in Gaza in Hebron.  I wish it was Gaza. hospital in Hebron in which I. met the family of the baby of seven months who was  killed by an Israeli soldier last Friday. Israeli. soldier shooting a baby of seven months in the car  of his family daytime. I mean there was daylight.

7:00 in the evening was daylight. The whole family  grandmother, father, mother and two children in a. car. The car stops. The soldier after the cast  stop two shots, killed the baby in his head. Horrible story. Do you really think that Israel  was troubled by this story? Except of my newspaper. hours. You think that anyone bothered to bring the  story? They mentioned it. Yeah. But the framing.

of it was, you know, some kind of incident.  Not really serious. Imagine yourself a Jewish. baby is being killed like this with a rifle from  10 m. Nothing. He saw them and he shot. I don't. know why. He claims he felt danger. Oh, it is so  dangerous to meet a family with two children and. grandmother who is 80. It is so dangerous to the  soldiers. And he shot him. Now the fact that this.

is happening has to do also with the fact that it  doesn't bother any Israeli almost no Israelis not. many true there are those who are very important  but most of the Israelis don't want to hear about. it and if they hear about it you know I told it  today to some friend of mine and she told me yeah. but he didn't intend to kill him for God's sake  how do you know that he didn't intend to kill him.

two months ago they killed another family in the  car which is this automatic justification to the. army and to everything they do. So getting back  to your question when you don't want to know when. you live in denial look you cannot maintain  such a brutal occupation for so many years 59. years now without denying it because otherwise  you would be out of your mind. The Israelis are.

not monsters. They have their emotions. They  the part of them are liberals. They couldn't. live with it. The only way to live with it is by  denying and live with this denial and keep the. denial so that no one will will break the denial  because we really don't want to know. You know, and you viewers know the West Bank is half an  hour away from our home. It's not overseas some. colony in half an hour. In one hour I'm in Hebra.  In one hour I'm in Gaza by car. It's here our.

backyard. But we don't want to know what's going  on here. And the Israeli media, unfortunately, most of it is the biggest collaborator with  the occupation by supplying their consumers the. service of pleasing them and not bothering them  and not telling the Israelis the truth about what. we are doing on a daily basis. And again, this is  not only Netanyahu and Ben and Smidge. It started.

much before. They did it worse, much worse. They  legitimized many things they did. But don't blame. them and don't hope that after they will be  gone, things will be different. They will not. be different on those issues. Other issues, yes,  the occupation will be as paric as it is. Gaza. will continue to suffer as it suffers. If it will  be what's his name, laid or whoever, same thing.

you you anticipated my next question which was  will this change when the current leadership. changes. Um and that's a that's a depressing  answer that you just gave. I wonder how much do. Israelis pay attention to their supporters in the  United States? We have a number of high-profile. supporters of Israel in the United States who have  the same positions as Smootrich and Bengavir and.

Netanyahu. Are Israelis aware of that? Does it  matter to them? No. For many years it matters to. Israelis when the United States hugged Israel.  When Israel was the darling of the West and it. was the darling of the West. Yes. Face Israel  could do things that no other country in the. world could do. But when the public opinion in  the United States like elsewhere started to shift,

it was immediately labeled as anti-semitic as  you know personally. Yes. Exactly as you know. personally and immediately they labeled everyone  is anti-semitic and then the only way to cope it. is by blaming the United. It's not us. It's you.  You an anti-semit. It's not us criminal of war. It's you the anti-semit. That's the point. So,  Israelis are aware that there are the evangelists. who still support Israel and there are still some  members of the Jewish communities obviously who.

support blimely Israel. But Israel gave up on the  world. I think the Israelis convinced themselves. that whatever we do the world is against us. So  why would we bother? And you see practically we. know we are not beloved but it doesn't bother us  enough. That's the point. We don't ask why don't. they love us. We are not courageous enough to  look at the truth and ask ourselves why did they.

love us after Oslo? Why after Oslo Israel was so  popular and why now Israel is a parastic? We put. immediately the blame on the world not on our  we never check ourself. We did something wrong. Maybe we exaggerate in Gaza. Maybe bombarding  Beirut is not the right thing to do. No, no. It's the world who hates us. Well, in a world with  a globalized economy, that has real consequences.

potentially. So, if the United States begins to  withdraw its support for Israel, Israel would. need a new partner in order to continue living  as it has been living. Who would that partner be, do you think? So, first of all, the right-wingers,  the settlers, the radical right-wingers, they at least seem not to care. So, we will, as  they say, we will fight with our hands. Yeah, we.

will fight Iran with our hands. Good luck. others  because Israeli discourse does not include any. thoughts about the future any thoughts we don't  think what will be tomorrow where are we aiming. I mean how will Israel look in 10 years it's it's  our agenda we are living the day and therefore we. ignore those questions and people say you know we  trust ourselves Israelis have this sense that we.

will always be able to improvise and your partner  or maybe mislead another president and promise him. the sky and get and continue do it. Until now  it was working very well for Israel. You must. admit. Yes. Life life in Israel is economically we  are doing better than any many other countries in. the world even in times that we are harassed and  now with the with the armies who will stop us.

What is the goal of the war with Iran?  What's the point of this? So look, that's the that's the life project of Netanyahu  and we have to give him a credit for this. Yes, he speaks about it for decades and I believe  that he believes that it is a real existential.

danger and I believe that he believes that this  can be challenged only by war and his wet dream. was for years to attack Iran military. He didn't  believe in any kind of agreements and deals like. he doesn't agree believe in any agreement with  the Palestinians or any kind of compromise or or. or or diplomacy. And he tried as you know with few  American presidents to persuade them to go for war.

together because Israel cannot go to war with Iran  without the United States. It's it's practically. not sustainable. and then he found Donald Trump  and in a way he succeeded to pursue ideal. Again, I think the accountability is Trump's. I don't buy  it that can push Trump into a war. You know Trump.

much better than I and you know that he's not so  easily pushed into a war somewhere far away. If. Donald Trump decided to go for war with Iran, it's  his responsibility no less than Netanyahu. But in. any case, yes, I agree. I agree with you. If this  is the case, then Israel found I mean Netanyahu, it's all Netanyao now. About Iran, it's all  Netanyao. He found the the opportunity of his. life to try once and for all a military campaign  against Syria. And maybe he believed that he can.

achieve the goals namely regime change dismantling  the nuclear capability, dismantling the ballistic. missiles and also he had the dream to disconnect  between Iran and the proxies. What he didn't take. into account that all those goals are unachievable  even in a war. And now he stand before a deadlock.

exactly like Donald Trump stands before deadlock.  They tried war quite messy. He didn't bring any. achievements. Don't buy all those talkingings  about how many boats were hit and how many. cannons. It's, you know, Iran is still strong  alive and kicking. The regime is maybe stronger. than it was. And now there is no goal because  the goals which were on the agenda were found.

as unachievable. Now the idea is to realize that  there are things which are unachievable or for. sure unachievable by force. Not everything can  be achieved by force. But people like Netanyahu. don't accept it. What is not achievable by force  will be achievable by more force. That's the way. they think. And therefore we are again and again  in Lebanon third time now with the same strategy.

which twice totally failed and will fail now. Same  in Gaza, same in Iran. It will lead us to nowhere. But you know when a people do not does not learn  from its own experience, we face a problem. Why would Netanyahu continue to push Trump  to keep the war going when no goals have been.

achieved and it doesn't seem possible that any of  them will be achieved? Iran is not going to fall. apart. It's not going to disintegrate into civil  war because of the USIsraeli bombing campaign. Why? Why would Netanyahu want to keep it going?  Because otherwise he has to admit that his life. project failed. Otherwise he has to admit  that he was wrong along the way. He has to. admit that pushing Barack Obama to pull out of  the agreement was an historical major mistake.

He has to admit all this and besides he maybe  still believes that maybe more aggression will. bring more results. I don't know. The fact is that  even the bombarding of Lebanon is in a way also a. tool to sabotage any agreement with Iran, between  the United States and Iran. And we see the linkage.

now. And he will do anything possible to prevent  an agreement still because either he doesn't. believe in anything else or he is not courageous  enough to stem faith in front and say my life. project fame. I didn't get it and I couldn't get  it because it's unachievable by force. Yes. But. I I don't think he's courageous enough for this.  What do Israelis think of the war with Iran? First.

of all, you saw in the first days 93% of Israelis  supported the war with Iran. Now Tak 93% is a. figure that you get only in North Korea. Yes. In  polls or in a good day maybe also there's nothing. like 93. If you go now to a poll asking Israelis  if today is Monday, you will not be at 93%.

You will not get [laughter] you will get 80. Yeah.  And some will say I have no opinion and others. will say I don't know. You will not get 96%. And  here you got 93%. First of all you get support. to end world Israel in its beginning for sure  automatically and blindly. There was not one war. that Israel launched and we know today how many of  the wars were unnecessary if not worse than this. You get immediately a support. The whole people  unites along the lines of the army, our military.

force, our pride. We have to do something. It's an  opportunity blah blah blah. Then come are coming. the question marks. With Iran, it was even more so  because I don't remember 963% of support. Now it's. smaller, but it's still the majority. You always  said that in Israel mindset launching a war will.

always be more popular than a peace agreement.  Try to get now to any kind of agreement with. Lebanon. You will not get not 93% and maybe not  39% of support. That's the mindset. The mindset. is of living on the sword and only living on  a sword and not believing in anything else. not believing that the Arabs are human beings like  us. Not believing in any agreements with them, you. can't trust them. And the the most funny notion  is that the Arabs understands only the language of.

power. Yes. And violence while the matter of fact  is that Israel is understanding language. So yeah, something very basic is is calling for a reset  in Israeli society and there is no one to do this. reset and therefore I'm so pessimistic. How are  you treated? I mean you've spoken so plainly and.

directly about what's happening in Israel and as  you just said 93% of the population disagrees with. you. So, what is it like for you to live there  right now as a lifelong Israeli? First of all, I I I thank you for the compliment, but there  are no 7% of Israelis who agree with me. So, [laughter] you exaggerate. I really appreciate  it, but I wish I had 7%. No, there are no. And.

uh look, I'm uh I'm old enough to look backwards  and uh I was always lonely. Uh to some 14 I had. bodyguards. Now I feel very safe. I must say my  freedom of speech is totally kept in my newspaper. On the other hand, there is this phenomena that  for example in Israeli TV for three years now I.

used to be often on Israeli TV for the last three  years. They didn't invite me. I mean they invited. me twice twice in three years while I was at  least once twice a week on Israeli TV. The Israeli. media except which is my home and my my safe place  except of there's no room for for views like mine. It's not personal. There's no room for it. There's  no room in all those endless panels on Israeli TV.

for any kind of alternative view. It's you must  say only what everyone else says otherwise you. will not invite. Now personally on one hand I  am very grateful to the fact that I had still. my freedom. I can talk to you and say whatever I  I maybe people will curse me. There's this woman. who every morning when I'm jogging in the park  is screaming at me at 5:30 in the morning. Oh, like a crazy woman. [snorts] But but she's really  an exception. I'm not the issue. Really not. I'm.

very grateful to live in a place where at least  if you are a Jew, you have your rights. At least. until now. I have my homes. I express my views.  I cannot complain about anything. But I feel more. lonely than ever. After the 7th of October, some  of my best friends, as we say, shifted. Some of. my best friends changed the views. I was never so  lonely. Never. Are you going to stay for my last.

until my last breath? Sure, I'll stay. I was born  here. I My wife is Swedish. I could easily live, but sure, I'll stay. That's my place. I mean,  I'm attached to this place. I'm not a, you know, observe from the outside. I'm very attached  to this place. And this makes the whole thing.

much more painful because I'm attached so much  to Israel. Yes. Because I feel that all those. things are being done on my behalf. Because I feel  that I was cheated as a child telling me all kind. of stories about the beginning of the state which  were not the full truth. So I feel cheated. I feel. ashamed in many cases. I feel guilty deep guilt  over the Palestinian people from the beginning.

Not from what's going on now for 48. But but you  know for the bad and for the good it is my place. I will never leave as long as I can stay here.  No it's my language also. My parents came here. in 39. My father was in an illegal boat for half  a year in the sea. 600 people on a boat. I can't. even imagine how it was. Where from did they get  supply? any ports in the Middle East in the in the.

Mediterranean wouldn't let them get down until  they were detained in Beirut, Lebanon. Finally, he got here. He had no clue Judaism, Zism. Never  knew the difference between Purim and Yumi Purim, between one Jewish holiday to the other. Always  asked me when do they fast, when do they eat? So. no clue. But this was his only rescue. He couldn't  go elsewhere. He left his fiance and parents and.

never saw them again. My mother came here in a  project of of children saving children. She was. 16 when she came here. Turkey boots. They were  not Zionist or not anti-ionist. They were not. political. They had very nice life in Europe.  And all of a sudden something uprooted them. from Europe. And Israel Palestine was their only  rescue. I cannot forget it and therefore I'm very. very attached to all my memories. Can you be  attached from from Maine from United States? I.

don't know. I cannot to be uprooted from there. I  mean all my memories are here. All my friends it's. not even an issue. It's not even an issue. I will  stay here as long as I can. Maybe one day I'll be. forced to live with those modries will continue.  Who knows? But no, no, I'll stay here. I am old. enough also. I feel the same way about my country.  When when did looking back on your long life in. Israel when and you you said that the roots of  what we're seeing now began long before Smish and.

Ben Gir took power? What what was the moment you  would point to where the country changed? I'm not. sure it's the moment that the country change. I'm  not sure the country changed. I think my attitude. changed. Yes. Because in a book now backwards  you see that it was all there in the beginning. of Zism. It's known the country basically are  using today the same methods like in the Nakba.

of 48 namely uprooting the Palestinians trying to  push them away trying to tyranize them in order. to push them out trying to take over their economy  their life heritage everything. This started long. before the state was old. This started with  the beginning of Zanism and never stopped.

If it was acceptable then you know 48 holocaust  people like my parents you need to build the. estate you cannot be too too moral so to say but  we never stop this in this very moment we spoke. about Gaza before what's the difference go and see  the West Bank what they do now in the West Bank. I'm every week in the West Bank what they do now  in the West Bank is exactly what the first Zionist. do did in 48 the thing is that Then there was  state and now we have this regional superpower and.

still we want more and still more real estate and  more land. So hello those things are very hard to. change. So I don't think that Israel changed such  yes rich bank and above Netanyahu who legitimized. them did a big shift mainly by legitimizing you  know we had this Rabbi Manuel Kahana yes who you.

Americans were kind enough to export him to us and  we are very grateful for this. I would I really if. you have if you should have any guilt feelings  it's for for exporting Americana to Israel. Yes. From from Brooklyn to to Israel. I remember it.  Exactly. Thank you. Thank you America. Sorry for. this. But Mel Kahana when he was speaking in  the parliament the members would step out. He.

was not legitimized because he was a racist. They  couldn't nobody was accepting him and finally he. was declared illegal until he was murdered in  the United States. Today what is small bankver. is a declared pupil of of kahana but much worse  in his sadism. I'm not sure the khana was such a. sadist is a real sadist. Look how he treats the  the Palestinian prisoners. You see the citizen.

the happiness of of for watching their suffer  there's really something sick in this man but. this was there this government just legitimized  it so this is a big shift the legitimization but I. think that above all I changed not Israel changed  and I changed due to only one thing it's not like. one day I was walking in the dark forest and all  of a sudden God revealed to me and told me you.

have to think about the Palestinian people in a  very incidental way back in the late8s. I started. to travel as a journalist to the West Bank and to  Gaza very innocent. I was I was a good I was a I. was a good boy Tel Aviv. I was working with Shimon  PZ for four years. I was filming the Israeli army.

in the army radio station. So I I was not brought  up as a dissident there and I started to travel. to the West Bank and Gaza and very soon I tried  I realized that the big drama of Israel is there. This what defines Israel the occupation there is  no one to tell it or almost no one to tell it and. that I know nothing about it. me personally, I was  in the darkness and then I started gradually to.

cover the occupation until I made it the mission  of my life. And then gradually my vehicles became. more and more radical. The more I saw, the more  radical I became. I believe that almost every. Israeli who would witness what I witnessed in  the last 40 years that I'm working for Arat, I believe that it's part of the Israelis who  would would share the same views like me. So the shift was in me not in the country. The  country is doing the same is is running the same.

principles from 48 until day three. And this is  so worrying me because it's not that we all of. a sudden change for the Zionist leftist. It's  very convenient to say, "Oh, this Netanyahu, he brought this curse on our heads. We were  so beautiful before, so honest, so innocent, and then came this evil Netanyahu and made us  into a parastic. No, my dear friends, we did it.

before Netanyahu and we'll continue to it after  Netanyahu and Netanyahu did very bad things, but don't put everything on him. Shimon Paris  and Takarabi who got the Nobel Peace Prize are. responsible to more settlements than Netanyahu.  They started the project of settlements together. with other people in the Labor Party. So let's  realize that something much deeper is sick and.

not only Netanyahu and his government, which I'd  be very happy to see them stepping down obviously, but it will not solve the basic problems.  Unfortunately, we have to find something. optimistic, Ter. We cannot just moon all the  time. [laughter] I agree. I I just I I can't. argue with anything that you've said and I hope  that every American watches the last hour of.

your explanation of what's happening in Israel  because I think it's um I think it's essential. for Americans to understand that. And I also keep  thinking 30 years ago I knew I felt like I knew. many Israelis who would say what you just said  and now um now you're almost alone. So thank you. Thank you for everything you've said and for what  you're doing and Godspeed. Good luck. Thank you. Tucker for this opportunity. I really appreciate  it. I do. Thank you. All the best. Thank you Kian.