Tucker Responds to the Israel Lobby Defeating Thomas Massie and Killing MAGA

I was thinking last night when Massie. lost in Kentucky. I was thinking back to. Trump's inauguration, the morning of the. Trump inauguration, which amazingly was. only last year, last January, January. 20th. And I was in Washington for that, and. Trump invited me to church on the. morning before he was sworn in, and so. of course I went. And it was at St. John's, the Episcopal. Church in Lafayette Square, where pretty. much every president has gone on the. morning of the inauguration. So, I. showed up. Happens to be my denomination, the. Episcopal Church, so I know the church.

pretty well. I know people who work. there. So, I was pretty excited about. going and saying a prayer for this. this presidency. So, I'm standing. outside at maybe 6:45 in the morning, and it is freezing. And if you've been. to Washington in the winter, you know. it's mostly. pretty temperate, but the cold days are. very cold. And there's something about. the cold in a city that is biting, even. if you like cold, it's tough. And this. was probably 12° and windy. And I remember that very well, because. we were standing in line, in a security. line, waiting to go through the. magnetometer, and the Secret Service was.

there. There was a whole rigmarole, and. dogs, and and they were taking forever. It's not their fault, but the protocols. are complex. And it was awful standing there. We were. kind of stamping our feet and grousing. Not many people, it was a pretty small. church service, but the people who were. standing in line were like, "Let's get. going and get into church.". And as we're standing there, feeling. freezing, waiting to be searched by. federal law enforcement, a woman brushed by me on the left side, kind of walking fast. Older woman, not very tall, and I.

recognized her. And it was Miriam Adelson. And she blew past me and everybody else. in line, and went right to the front, right to the magnetometer, announced who. she was, and walked on in. And I thought to myself, Miriam Adelson, who I know vaguely, not really, but I knew that she was the biggest, or. one of the biggest, donors to the Trump. campaign, an Israeli, born in Israel, widow of Sheldon Adelson, the biggest. Republican donor, the casino magnate,

but more than anything, a fervent. neocon. Her main issue is American. support for Israel. She says this, it's. not a secret, and she spends accordingly. And she brushes past me, I remember. thinking this, and everybody else, and just walks right in like she owns. the place. And I remember thinking, "Hmm, I hope this isn't an omen. I hope it's. not a sign of things to come. It feels a. little bit like a metaphor. I hope. that's not real.". So, I kind of sublimated it, tried not.

to think about it. Finally, I got into. church, sat alone in a pew with Charlie. Kirk, had a great time. We were both. almost jubilant, really, that Trump had. been elected. We didn't think he would, but he did, and we were thrilled. Not. just because we like Trump, which we. did, cuz he's hilarious and fun to talk. to, and interesting, and. but because he ran on ideas that we. agreed with, really strongly. And first. among them was the idea, self-evident, really, that the US government ought to.

serve, in fact, it exists to serve the. interests of American citizens, and it. really has no other role in the world. Doesn't mean it has to strike a. bellicose posture toward anyone else. Hurting other people isn't necessary, but helping your own people is the only. reason you exist if you're the US. government or one of its many employees. And the American president should. proceed from that commitment. I am here. to serve my people, well, as a father. does with his children, an officer with. his men, etc. That's leadership.

Service to the people you lead, and a. love for those people. And both of us. were convinced at the time. that Donald Trump was that man, that he. was truly America First, and then. because he was, this would be a great moment for our. country, a much-needed relief from a. worldview that put America at the bottom. of its concerns, but that would also change the. Republican Party, which was meaningful. because the Republican Party, along with. Trump, had just taken total control of. the country.

Both houses in Congress, House and. Senate, the White House, majority of the Supreme Court appointed. by Republicans. The Republicans were in. charge, and we hoped, and at the moment. we believed. that the Republican Party would change. along with Trump, its new leader. And that it would change in one specific. way. It would come to put the concerns. of Americans first. Period. That's it. We can argue about how best to serve. them, but serving them has to be the. goal. And so we imagined, Charlie Kirk and I, we may have talked about this in the.

pew, that we would see the Republican. Party suddenly populated by a lot of. people like, well, like Thomas Massie. I can't remember if we actually talked. about Thomas Massie, but we had before, and Charlie Kirk had. talked a lot about Thomas Massie. And Charlie Kirk loved Thomas Massie, not just as a person because he was. honest and decent, but because Thomas. Massie's orientation was purely about. what's best for the country. And again, he said it many times, including in this. representative interview of.

Thomas Massie. Here's Charlie Kirk. >> He loves liberty. He's honest, and he's tough, and he's. going to really go after the intel. agencies. It's Thomas Massie, who's just terrific. from Kentucky. Congressman Massie, welcome to the program. >> Hey, thanks for having me on, Charlie. >> This might sound like a strange. question, but I know it's on everybody's. mind. You're going to be on the. committee that will oversee the most. powerful institutions on the planet, the FBI, the CIA, maybe the IRS.

Are you concerned for your own safety, and or what they might try to do to. blackmail you? >> Oh, absolutely. You'd be By the way, you're not qualified to be on this. committee if you don't realize that. there will be an effort to discredit me. >> It's poignant, and honestly kind of. fascinating in retrospect to hear. Charlie Kirk express alarm at the. behavior of the intel agencies. Are you. afraid they're going to kill you or. blackmail you? He says to Thomas Massie. Charlie Kirk was thinking about that.

even then. It was only 8 months after the. inauguration, less than, that Charlie. Kirk, of course, was murdered, assassinated in public in a very, very. strange shooting. And. at around the same time. Donald Trump pivoted from the promises. that we at the time believed. to become something completely. different. It would have been. unimaginable. for us sitting in those pews at St. John's across from the White House on. the morning of the inauguration to. picture Donald Trump covering up the.

Epstein files, encouraging more secrecy, encouraging more surveillance, more. spying on Americans, to be encouraging. data centers across the country to abet. that surveillance. And above all, it would have been. stunning for us. In fact, we wouldn't. have been able to comprehend it that. morning in January of last year. that Donald Trump would be cheerleading. a regime change war in the Middle East. against Iran of all Middle Eastern. nations, the biggest and most powerful.

Because both of us understood the point. of Donald Trump and the reason that we. supported him was because he would never. do anything like that. That morning, the morning of the. inauguration, both Charlie Kirk and I. believed that Donald Trump had meant. what he said in speech after speech, in. public, in conversations with us, endless conversations with both of us on. this exact topic. And so, if you're trying now to remember. the Donald Trump that we thought was. real on the morning of the inauguration, here's a reminder. This is a speech that.

Trump gave in 2020. >> Biden. shipped away our jobs, threw open our. borders, and sent our youth to fight in. these crazy endless wars. And it's It's. of the reasons the military I'm not. saying the military is in love with me, the soldiers are. The top people in the. Pentagon probably aren't because they. want to do nothing but fight wars so. that all of those wonderful companies. that make the bombs and make the planes. and make everything else stay happy. Let's bring. our soldiers back home.

Some people don't like to come home. Some people like to continue to spend. money. One cold-hearted globalist. betrayal after another, and that's what. it was. >> One cold-hearted globalist betrayal. after another. That's what it was, and. he was right. That's exactly what it. was. One cold-hearted globalist betrayal. after another. Betrayals of the United. States and its future, the future of our. children, including the children that. your children may not have because of. those betrayals.

Charlie Kirk was very upset about this. He was articulate in explaining why he. was upset about it, and he sincerely. believed that Trump would change it. Trump and people like Thomas Massie. It's hard to imagine what he would think. about the remarks that Donald Trump, the. same man that he voted for and. campaigned for and went to pray for in. the church the morning of the. inauguration. What he would have thought of the Donald. Trump on display yesterday when he said. this, watch. >> I'm right now at 99% in Israel. I could.

run for Prime Minister, so maybe after I. do this, I'll go to Israel run for Prime. Minister. I had a poll this morning, I'm. 99%. So, that's the. >> The president of the United States. bragging about his popularity in a. foreign country. I'm 99% in Israel. Unmentioned is the. fact that he's 35% in the United States. 35% support from Americans, the people. he pledged to represent, to fight for.

Whose side he promised to take in every. conflict foreign and domestic. And yet. there he is. bragging about how popular he is in a. foreign country. The same country that got us into the. war that is causing, to some extent, his. unpopularity in this country. Speaking of cold-hearted globalist. betrayals. Now, you can say, "Well, that's just. Trump. searching for affirmation wherever he. can. Unpopular at home, he retreats into. the fantasy of his popularity in another.

country." Well, yes, true. But, it's not. a one-time exhibition of this. That president. has spent the last year. looking outward. toward the approval of other nations. That president has spent the last year. fighting for people who are not his. voters, in many cases not even. Americans,

and allowing his own country to. languish. The last year has not made America great. again. The last year has diminished American. power at a rate some of us thought was. unimaginable. We couldn't have foreseen, less than a year and a half ago, sitting. in St. John's, the damage that this. administration, led by that president, for whom we campaigned and liked. personally, could do to this country.

How did this happen? Well, historians are going to have to. figure that out. What was the change? Was Donald Trump a. sleeper cell the entire time working on. behalf of Benjamin Netanyahu while. pretending to be an America First. patriot? Maybe. Hard to imagine that. This is someone who tends to externalize. everything, who tends to say what he's. thinking, probably doesn't have the. self-control to be a long-term sleeper. agent. And so, if that's true, if Trump really.

did change completely, not just by 6 degrees, but by 180. degrees, what caused the change? What was the. moment where Donald Trump decided, I. really don't care what the people who. voted for me think. In fact, I don't. think I like them very much. And what I. really care about. is what a foreign prime minister. and some widowed casino magnate think of. me. Who knows. what caused that change, but the change. is demonstrable.

When did you first notice? I'll tell you. when I first noticed. It was last. summer. And the spark wasn't the war with Iran. It was the Epstein files. Why the Epstein files? Well, out of nowhere, the president who. had effectively told his voters that he. would declassify the Epstein files along. with the files pertaining to all kinds. of controversial and much discussed. events around which conspiracy theories. have grown, notably the JFK.

assassination, but not just that, all of. them. There's too much secrecy in the federal. government. That's. what the president, the now president, said again and again. Why is there. secrecy? Because secrecy hides. corruption. You can't be corrupt in the open, of. course. You need to be. shielded by secrecy. And by the way, this is a president who was indicted and. threatened with the rest of his life in. prison for violating secrecy laws. Secrecy laws which were not written to.

protect American national security, of. course not, and they haven't. They didn't prevent Jonathan Pollard. stealing our key military secrets and. giving them to the. Israeli government, which promptly gave. them to the Soviets. That didn't help at. all. No, those laws were written to prevent. you, the people who pay for the federal. government, from learning what the. federal government is actually doing. Secrecy abets corruption. It's obvious. None of this can thrive in It dies, famously. And so.

the pledge, the promise, the core. promise behind America First and Drain. the Swamp and every other slogan all of. which I loved, I'll just say it, and. love to this day. The pledge behind all of those. was to let people know what their own. government is doing, both because they. have a right to know and because once. they do know, the corruption will stop. It's about corruption. It's about a justice system that does. not treat every person as a citizen,

much less a child of God, but treats. them as members of castes. And members of some castes have to obey. the law and members of other castes. don't. There is not equal treatment. under the law, therefore there is no. justice. Therefore the most basic. promise of America. which is that you will be judged by what. you do. is invalid, and so is democracy itself. How can you vote for things if you don't. know what they are? Well, you can't. You have no control in a world where the. most important facts are hidden from.

you. And that obvious observation which spoke. not just to Republicans, but to a lot of. non-Republicans, famously people who. made up the Trump 2024 coalition, that. promise was the promise. The government. will work for you and you alone, and you. will know that because you're going to. know what the government is doing. Because of course. foreign lobbying of your government or. lobbying by Big Pharma or lobbying by. anybody of your government is by.

definition. corruption. because it gives more weight to the. preferences of a small group of people. than to the majority. It's a betrayal, it's a corruption of democracy. It is. corruption. And there is probably no figure in. modern history who embodies corruption. more perfectly than Jeffrey Epstein. Not because he was the worst person who. ever lived. He wasn't. He was just an employee in a much larger. structure. He wasn't making independent. decisions. Come on now.

But he got away with it. Jeffrey Epstein. somehow won Powerball. in the state of Oklahoma. and collected almost $30 million. Jeffrey Epstein won Powerball. Okay now. How'd that happen? Wasn't from Oklahoma. No one's ever explained how he won. The. feds looked into it. No explanation. He just somehow collected almost $30. million. from Powerball. Okay now. So what's the lesson there? The lesson and the reason it's funny is. because the system is rigged. And. everyone knows it's rigged. And Epstein. proves that it's rigged.

And at some point it was rigged. apparently against Epstein. How do we know that? Well, because on July 6th, 2019, he was. arrested at Teterboro private airport. outside New York City. on a flight from Paris and he was. charged with basically the same crimes. he'd been charged with back in 2006. by the state of Florida. Now you would think that that would be. not allowed. Double jeopardy. Well, the feds made the. case, well, that was those were state. charges. These are federal charges. But.

he had a federal non-prosecution. agreement. It's not a defense of Jeffrey Epstein, of course. It's merely noting the obvious, which is. what the Justice Department did to. Jeffrey Epstein in 2019 was very weird. And no one's ever explained why they did. that. But what we do know. is that a month and three days after he. was arrested at Teterboro airport, he. was dead. And he was murdered. That's obvious. And it was never investigated. That's a fact. So what does that add up to add up to?

Well, I don't know. Draw your own. conclusions. Here you have a guy who's. entangled with multiple. intel agencies from a bunch of different. countries, notably the United States and. Israel, but also British intelligence, probably French, the usual panoply. And he's running around the world as an. arms dealer and a connector and he's got. some relationship to 9/11. What is that? And he wins Powerball. He's operating at the highest levels. He's not running anything, but he's. operating at those levels and he knows a. lot, a lot, a lot.

And one day he is summoned back from. Paris and arrested and a month later. he's murdered. So it stands to reason that anyone. involved in any of that. probably had direct involvement in his. murder. No one ever asked these questions. That's not considered interesting cuz. it's not related to sex. But it may be a little bit closer to the. heart of why this is such a touchy. subject for this administration cuz keep. in mind Donald Trump was president in. 2019.

And it was his attorney general, Attorney General Barr, the son, strangely, of the man who had given Jeffrey Epstein. his first job teaching at the Dalton. School and then helped get him a job at. Bear Stearns and then launched him into. whatever world he occupied until he was. murdered. Under the authority. of Attorney General Barr. Kind of weird. Well, so weird that at very least. demands an explanation which we've never. received. Any case, probably not going to receive.

one anytime soon. because the president who could explain. it was remarkably touchy about the. subject. Very, very touchy. And whenever it came up, and this was a. shock to a lot of his supporters, he. didn't just brush it off and say, "Hey, I will get to that after we fix the. economy and lowered gas prices and made. it possible for your son to get a job.". No, his response was, well, hysterical. "Shut up! Anyone who asks about Epstein is not my. supporter and I don't want your. support." He said that in a Truth Social.

post at the time, last summer. Look it. up. And so for those of us who campaigned. for Trump and voted for him and liked. him, the first thought was, "What is. this? Isn't the whole point of your. administration to drain the swamp? Isn't this why you got elected? So you could end this two-tiered system. where some people get to molest kids and. win Powerball in Oklahoma and. everything's fine until they're murdered. somehow, but no no one can ever figure. out how. And the rest of us.

who get. arrested for having three beers and. driving to 7-Eleven. Get arrested cuz you make a mistake on. your tax form. Not all of us have a Department of. Justice-ordered. respite from federal audits. Some of us. are subject to federal audits and know. that we'll get them if we step out of. line. So it would be nice, and again, this was. the promise of the campaign and of the. administration and the reason that some. of us filed into church. though behind Mirror Madison.

on that cold morning a year and a half. ago. Why would Donald Trump shut down. any not just investigation into, but any. conversation about the guy who embodies. the corruption he was elected to end? That thought has never left my mind and. probably the mind of a lot of other. people. Was Trump involved in some weird sex. thing? Probably not, actually. That might be better than the actual. answer. And the actual answer may be that Donald.

Trump is covering up for exactly the. people he was elected to expose. So that was the moment. Well, apparently. Thomas Massie didn't get the memo, but. that is totally off limits. Talk about. whatever you want. You can make fun of Kamala Harris's. teeth, but you don't talk about Epstein. cuz the whole point of the Republican. party is to make sure that we don't talk. about Epstein. Isn't that right? Isn't. that why you became a Republican? Thomas Massie didn't get the memo, and. he started saying in his kind of. autistic forthright way, "What about Epstein? I WANT TO KNOW.

ABOUT EPSTEIN.". And rather than just brush him off or. blow him off or ignore him, Donald Trump. fixated on him. And began to hate Thomas Massie. And in a move that may reveal what the. Epstein story is really about, he made common cause with some of his. biggest donors. Those would include. Paul Singer. Paul Singer. A liberal who is somehow one of the. biggest donors in the Republican Party, and John Paulson. And of course Miriam Adelson.

And they colluded in effect to destroy. Thomas Massie. Now, Thomas Massie, in addition to. calling for more disclosure of the. Epstein documents, which by the way. belong to the citizens of the United. States. They're not the personal. property of any federal bureaucrat. They. belong to the people of the country, who also, by the way, own the federal. detention center in which Epstein was. murdered, and are therefore owed an. explanation of who murdered him and why, and why hasn't that person been.

arrested. In any case, Thomas Massie demanded. this. But Thomas Massie also had another. distinction, another asterisk by his. name. Out of 217 Republicans in the. Congress, Thomas Massie is the only one who's. never taken money from the Israeli. lobby. He's the only one. And Thomas Massie has never been opposed. to Israel in any sense. You can search. the archive for Thomas Massie attacking. Israel or Jews or. anything on the topic. Doesn't seem that.

interested. Thomas Massie's position. is a principled one, and a consistent. one going back decades. The United States has a lot of problems, and maybe first among them is a debt. problem. The United States is bankrupt, beyond bankrupt. The United States is so deeply in debt. that its creditors are worried. And we cannot afford to send any more. foreign aid to anyone. That would. include Egypt, and it would very much include the. largest recipient. of foreign aid by far,

which is Israel, which is not. strategically important to the United. States in any sense. We receive nothing. of value from Israel, nothing. And when you compare whatever tech we. receive, the spyware on our phones, against the cost in dead Americans and. in American dollars and in the total. isolation now of the United States, which is in part the result of our. alliance with Israel, it's not a good. deal for us. And so Thomas Massie has stood alone all.

of these years. He's made zero headway. in stopping aid to Israel or in even. changing minds about Israel. But he has persisted in his lonely. principled campaign against foreign aid. And so because of that, Trump. colluded. with three of his donors, including his. biggest, Miriam Adelson, to destroy. Thomas Massie and to end his career. in Congress by beating him in the. Republican primary in the fourth.

district of Kentucky, a place. we can bet Miriam Adelson has never been. to and could not find on a map and in. which she has no real interest. And that makes you wonder, well, why. would she and her fellow neocon. billionaires spend tens of millions of. dollars to. kick Thomas Massie out of the Congress? And of course, because Israel. That's. it. Thomas Massie criticized not Israel, but. America's relationship with Israel, and. that can't be allowed.

What's interesting is that it wasn't. just Trump and it wasn't just his. donors, Miriam Adelson and Paul Singer. and Paul Singer and the rest. It was the entire American news media, left and right. Here's CBS News. interviewing Thomas Massie about his. race in really one of the remarkable. clips of the past month. Watch this. >> There have been more than 32 million. dollars. spent on a primary. >> Yeah. in this congressional district,

which is now the most expensive House. primary ever. in the United States. Is it worth it? >> You'd have to ask Miriam Adelson on May. 20th if it was worth it. Because, you. know, they tried to buy my vote for 14. years and it was never for sale. They've. tried Now they're trying to buy a seat. here in Kentucky. >> You know that kind of criticism doesn't. sit well with fellow Republicans, at. least in the House Republican. conference. That there are others who've accused you. of. all sorts of things regarding.

Israel, regarding the state of Israel, regarding Israeli government, regarding. Jewish Americans. Are you anti-Semitic? >> They're trying to tell you that it's. anti-Semitic for me. to expose the fact that the Republican. Jewish Coalition has spent millions of. dollars in this race. That a dual. citizen, Miriam Adelson, who even Trump. says is more loyal to Israel than the. United States, has spent millions of. dollars in this race. Those are mere. facts. And it's really.

>> yes or no. Are you anti-Semitic or not? >> Oh, hell no. I'm hell no anti-Semitic. But here's the danger that AIPAC runs. They've been too cute by a half. They've. tried to get Mike Johnson and he's. willingly done this, conflate in. resolutions on the House floor that. anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism. Or. even worse yet, that if you don't. support Benjamin Netanyahu's war in. Gaza, then you're anti-Semitic. That's. absolutely false and it does Jewish. Americans a big disfavor to equate the. two. >> You got to wonder what that kid from CBS.

News is being paid and does he ask. himself, is it worth it? So he, of course, asked the question to. Massie, which is not a question, it's. slander posing as a question. Are you an. anti-Semite? There's no evidence. Massie's an anti-Semite. Never said anything, not one thing. anti-Semitic, ever. Because he's not an anti-Semite. Are you an anti-Semite? To which Massie. says, "No, actually, the Republican. Jewish coalition is spending millions to. beat me because I don't believe in. sending more money to Israel to fund. their genocide against the Palestinians.

He didn't say that, but that's what this. is about. Should the United States. government pay for a genocide? No. Would be the answer for most people. But the reporter doesn't even listen to. it. Are you an anti-Semite? Yes or no? So Thomas Massie said, "Well, yeah, yeah, well, I'm an anti-Semite, but I. mean, I'm What?". Are you an anti-Semite? So the reporter has to say it twice. Anti-Semite, anti-Semite. When Massie's. critique of our foreign aid package to. Israel has nothing to do with Judaism,

Jewish ethnic identity. It has no. connection whatsoever to blood libel or. well poisoning or any of the. historical examples that are often. dredged up to compare people like Thomas. Massie to. You're a Nazi. He's in no. sense a Nazi. In fact, he's an. anti-authoritarian. Unlike the reporter from CBS News, who's. bludgeoning him over the head with. slander. So you may say to yourself, well, that. of course that's CBS News. You may not. even be aware that that was bought.

by a. huge contributor to the IDF, the Israel. Defense Forces, and part of the. rationale, maybe the main rationale for. having CBS News at all at this point, is. to ask questions like that. If you didn't know those facts, you. might think, well, that's just the. mainstream media, the lame stream media. Using the same tactics they always have. Slander, innuendo, attacks posing as. questions, not bothering to listen to. the answer, totally interested in the. reality of anything, pushing an agenda.

And you'd be right. But what's so revealing. is that it wasn't just liberal. mainstream CBS News, it was. what's often incorrectly described as. the far right. The far right. Far right meaning, I don't know, anyone. who's against mass migration, who raises. his voice or something. But that would include. Mark Levin.

Someone who spent a lot of his life. denouncing the lame stream media. And yet if you listen to Mark Levin's. critique. of the Massie race, it's identical to. the CBS News critique of the race, which. is Massie has no valid points. It's impossible to imagine Massie could. be opposing. aid to Israel except out of personal. hatred, animus, out of anti-Semitism. It's impossible to imagine any Americans. who could support something so crazy as.

not sending billions to Israel, so the. only people supporting Massie must be. radical jihadis. Here's Mark Levin. >> I'm looking at the support for Massie. It's the most radical. jihadis in our country. It is Democrats. It is Talib. I mean, think of It's Rand Paul, the. reprobates. The miscreants. And I underscore the malcontents.

are moving behind. Massie. And they're raising tons of money. And Massie is supported by all the. elements that support. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Iran. Why is that? He's supported by all the. American haters and Jew haters and many. of the Christian haters in this country. Why is that?

>> They're Jew haters. They support Islamic. Jihad, whatever that is. It's actually not faith so ludicrous. that it's funny. It's precisely what the. CBS News guy just said to him, "Well, clearly you're a Jew hater. You're an. anti-Semite.". And Massie is the perfect foil for this. because he sincerely isn't. He doesn't. even fully understand what the guy's. talking about. No, I just don't think we. should send money to a foreign country. They're mad at Massie why? One Republican out of 217 who hasn't.

taken money from the Israeli lobby. Why. are they so mad at him? Why was it so. important. for the Israeli lobby. to spend tens of millions of dollars to. crush this guy? He wasn't stopping really the status quo. in any way. He did help get some of the. Epstein files, some of the Epstein files. released, and God bless him for that. He. tried his hardest. But one man against 216 other members of. his party is not going to get very far. by definition. So, why don't you leave. him alone? Why force the issue? Why are.

they so mad at this guy? Why is Trump so. mad at him? Why is Meara Eilertson so mad? And of course the answer is because. Thomas Massie was willing to say out. loud that there is an Israeli lobby. There is a foreign country whose. supporters in the United States in. positions of prominence. are making campaign contributions purely. on the basis of what's good for a. foreign country. Their loyalty is not to the United. States, it's to a foreign country. Well, that's just true. It's just a.

fact. But you can't say that. Why can't you. say it? Well, because it's true. That's. why. If it was a lie, if you were claiming. the Earth was flat, then it wouldn't. hurt you. But be precisely because it is true, it's the truest thing. In fact, it's the. it's the definitive fact in American. politics, you're not allowed to say it. And he did. Now, why do we say that's true? Isn't that an anti-Semitic conspiracy. theory? Well, I don't know.

Let's go to the Israeli press, which for. all its many faults is a little bit more. honest, it's a little bit less. constipated. in its use of language. They can kind of. say things out loud cuz who's watching? Haaretz, the traditionally liberal paper. in Israel, publishes an English language. edition. And here was this headline yesterday. Look at this. There it is. The most consequential. Republican primary for Israel. is happening in Kentucky. Now, why would the Republican primary in.

the fourth district of the Commonwealth. of Kentucky, a place doubtless most. Israelis have never visited or can. locate, why would that be so important for. Israel? Well, because lots of things they tell you. were not true are entirely true. First. among them is Israel could not exist. without the United States in its present. form. Its ambitions would be at best. vastly curtailed. Because everything outside its borders. that Israel does is done with American.

tax dollars and with the backstop of the. lives of American servicemen. So, without that, the Greater Israel. project is done. Israel can exist in its. 48 borders, maybe. It probably can't. hold on to its 67 borders. Which is to. say, Gaza, West Bank, it's going to be a. slog. Because the United States makes that. possible. Israel's expansion is paid for. and guaranteed by the United States. taxpayer. And anyone who says that out loud, that. is absolutely true. There's nothing more.

true in global politics than that. But. anyone who says it reveals the game. and must be destroyed. And that's why. even in Israel, they know that beating Thomas Massie. is priority number one. But on its face, that sounds like an anti-Semitic. conspiracy theory. A Republican primary in a minor. Republican state, not even a state, a. Commonwealth, whatever that is, is being orchestrated from Israel?

With Israel's interests in mind, not. America's interests? What What are you, a Nazi? Not in Israel you're not if you say. that, because it's true. And they said it. So, Massie says, "Well, it's AIPAC and. the Republican Jewish Coalition. They're. the ones opposing me. It's not a. groundswell of support from within. the district for my opponent, Ed. whatever his name is, Galrin or Galrin. Nobody even knows how to pronounce his. name. He's not a I mean, is he a real. person? I don't know.

His only real meaningful campaign pledge. is to bring back the draft. The draft? How many people are in support of a. draft? How many people of draft age are. in support of a draft? None. Why would you want a draft? Do the Joint. Chiefs want a draft? Would it make the. military better if we had a draft? Why. would we have a draft? When entire wars are fought with drones, do we need a draft? Ed Galrin or Galrin or whatever this. composite figure is calling himself,

wants a draft. Can you think of a more totalitarian. and less popular position for any. person running for office to take than I. want a draft? Vote for me and I will. take your child and send him to go die. for Israel. Is that actually a campaign. pledge? He made that pledge. So, Massie's point is, this guy. who refused to have a single debate with. the incumbent, not one, who has no obvious support in the.

district, this guy only has a chance. because AIPAC. from whom I've never taken a dollar, the. only Republican who's never taken money. from AIPAC, AIPAC is on his side. That's. Thomas Massie's position. To which CBS News and Mark Levin and all. the other dumb people in MAGA world, that's anti-Semitic. Really now. Let's see what AIPAC has to say about. it. Minutes after Massie was declared the. loser, AIPAC AIPAC.

the dreaded AIPAC whose name we're not. allowed to say. AIPAC sent out this tweet in public on. Twitter. Here's what they said. We're quoting. Pro-Israel. Americans are proud to help defeat. anti-Israeli candidates. Being pro-Israel is good policy and good. politics. And good politics exclamation point. In. other words, the second Massie loses, AIPAC announces, "We did it. We did it. We bumped this guy off. He.

criticized us. We're literally an unregistered foreign. lobby. who exist not to help the United States. or its citizens, but a foreign country. that couldn't exist without our aid. anyway, whose aims are so. far from ours that they are hurting us. gravely. Whose population may love Trump, but in. a lot of ways hate Christian Americans. That's why they're spitting on nuns. That country. doesn't like this member of Congress, therefore we're going to take him out. And by the way, we did.

Oh. So, in other words, AIPAC is saying out. loud something that if you said out. loud, might get you fired from your job. Or investigated. by the Trump DOJ, which by the way has. just announced a multi-city. anti-anti-Semitism tour. led by Leo Terrell, the chief of anti-Semitism enforcement. or something, a Fox News contributor. with I think 11 IRS liens against him. over more than 10 years. A guy who's.

sort of wonder like how'd you get into. federal service if you have a problem. paying federal taxes. We'll leave that. between him and the IRS. Maybe he'll get. his own exemption from IRS audits. We'll. see. But that guy is leading a tour of the. United States to try and do something. with the imprimatur of the Department of. Justice, which is to say people with. guns, about the most pressing problem in this. nation, which is criticism of Israel. Because yes, criticism of Israel is now. officially defined as anti-Semitism. So when they tell you you're committing. anti-Semitism,

what they're saying is you're critical. of a foreign nation. And that's now a. crime. And rather than explain to you why it's. so important and so good for you. and the grandchildren you hope to have. to support Israel. Like you should get. on board. This is a great deal. Israel's. awesome. Here's how they help us. Here's. why you should be all in on Israel. Here's why the thousands of children. they murdered in Gaza deserve to be. killed. Cuz they were future terrorists. You. know, make your case. If you have a. case, make it. Tell us what you think.

Instead of doing that, the Trump. administration. is taking the position that noticing is. hate. Just noticing it. That's hate. It's anti-Semitism. It's a crime. That's the official message from. Department of Justice, which is using. your tax dollars to intimidate you into. shutting up about something that AIPAC. is bragging about publicly. It's hard to know what this is.

I mean, clearly it's not a sincere. effort to reduce anti-Semitism. If you're going to gin up anti-Semitism, you're going to make people feel bitter. If you wanted people to blame their. problems on Jews, whoever they are, this. is exactly what you would do. Of course. So it's not an effort to. reduce anti-Semitism, and you wouldn't. have Leo Terrell, the Fox News. contributor, with 11 IRS liens against him. That's your public servant, really?

You wouldn't have that guy leading a. multi-city tour to screech at you about. how you're a bad person for not liking. Israel. And by the way, possibly a. criminal for not liking Israel. You. wouldn't attack. the only truly sacred right this country. protects, which is the freedom of. speech, on behalf of a foreign country. if you were trying to eliminate. anti-Semitism? Of course not. This is something else. This is a humiliation exercise. This is. designed to let you know. that there is now a caste system in.

place. under which skepticism of one group is a. lot more serious than skepticism of. another group. Another word for this that was very. common on Fox News, and in fact it. emerged many times from Donald Trump's. mouth, was identity politics. That's. identity politics. We should instead have politics based on. citizenship. If you're a citizen, you are equal to me. under the law. There are no distinctions beyond that. God may make distinctions beyond that, but we're not God, we're a government. And in our government, the people own.

the country, they are shareholders in. this enterprise, and you treat them all. the same until proven otherwise. That's. our justice system. You can criticize anyone you want. equally. Every American citizen is. allowed to use the same words, regardless of what his parents look. like, because we don't have castes, because we're not India. We reject identity politics. That was. the promise. That's why BLM was wrong. All of a sudden you had to worship black.

people like gods rather than just. treating them like friends or neighbors. or citizens or just people, cuz that's. what they are. That's what every person is, just a. person. Good on a good day, bad on a bad day. Smarter, taller, richer, poorer, shorter, fatter, you know, different in. some ways, but fundamentally all the. same and equal under the law. Because this country is governed. the same way heaven is governed, by. universal principles. If something is. wrong, it is wrong for everyone. If something is okay, it's okay for.

everyone. We don't make those distinctions. Because when we do, it's called. corruption. That's what corruption is. Different. rules for me than for you. But all of a sudden, you have, led by. this administration, the one that. Charlie Kirk and I were so hopeful about. in church. that morning in January of last year, you have the most aggressive and the. most threatening outbreak of identity. politics, maybe in this country's. history.

You have the Justice Department. endorsing the idea that criticism of. foreign nation is potentially a crime. And you have certain states banning it, like Florida. Under Ron DeSantis. No, that's a hate. crime. You can't criticize that country. or our relationship with it. At the very. same time, the people encouraging you to. go along with this and threatening you. if you don't are bragging. that everything you're not allowed to. say is in fact true. That's all this is. It's a way to make. it really clear. Jeffrey Epstein gets to win Powerball.

somehow. His murderers walk free. We're not even. going to investigate it. But you watch yourself. Watch yourself. now. That's exactly what's going on. But maybe the most obvious example of. what's going on. happened last night. And it wasn't just. the fact that Ed Gallrine, or whatever. the guy's name is, who even knows, who. cares? As he won, somebody, and this was cruel, brought a video camera to his quote. victory party.

Now, remember, this is a guy who just. beat a seven-term incumbent. And check. the numbers on this. It's not that easy. to beat an incumbent, a seven-term. incumbent, who is wildly popular, even. by the standards of Republican states. Thomas Massie wasn't just popular, he. was wildly popular in his district, and. the election results over the past seven. terms prove that. Look him up. So, this guy, Ed whatever his name is, just wins, and his one campaign promises. to draft your son and send him to Iran,

but he wins anyway. How did he win? Well, obviously, people. were just so thrilled by the idea of a. draft that they just lifted Ed Gallroon. under their shoulders and carried him. across the finish line. And then they. all streamed into the victory hall for. beers and high fives and maybe some. brats. You imagine that must have happened. People woke up one morning and realized. their congressman who we thought was. honest and principled and decent, a. family man whose four children love him, who built his own home, is the embodiment of the America you.

thought you lived in, this independent has self-respect and. reverence for God and nature. That's. what you thought of him. And you. realize, "No, no, no, no, he's like a. liberal who's actually being supported. by the jihadis, who's like some kind of. sex criminal.". Cuz that's what they told you. We need. Ed Gallroon, the draft guy. And we're thrilled he got it. Well, let's take a look. Let's take a peek. at what Election HQ last night. at Ed's victory party actually looked. like.

Covered a lot of victory parties in my. life, a lot, more than 10. And some loss parties, too.

That's the weirdest thing I've ever. seen. There's no one there. What. percentage of people in that room. know Ed Gallroon or know. or related to him, are his neighbors, were paid to be there? We don't know the answer. There's nobody there. So, how'd this guy win? Well, he won on. mail-in ballots. And we'll sort of leave it to online. sleuths to. determine whether that's legitimate or. not. Who knows? Cuz if you're willing to pour tens of.

millions of dollars into a Republican. primary in the fourth district of. Kentucky, you're probably willing to do. whatever it takes. And maybe they did, we don't know that. Not alleging it. But we do know that's not what democracy. looks like. Democracy is the process by which people. express their will. By which they say this is how we want. our country to be run because it's our. country. It doesn't belong to Miriam. Adelson. or Paul Singer or Israel. or big pharma for that matter. or any other small group of rich people.

It's not the. plaything of billionaires. It's that. doesn't belong to the oligarchs. It. belongs to us. And here's what we want. And you can't ignore us because we're. the owners here. And this is. shareholders meeting and we're voting. And when people win in a race like this, there's evidence of it. And that. evidence takes very familiar forms. Enthusiasm, joy, and just sheer numbers. Like people show up. They can't believe. it. We beat the evil Thomas Massie with. his jihadi backers. This is a blow.

against. Islamic Jihad, whatever that is. Islamic Jihad. which along with Hamas is one of the big. problems in the fourth district of. Kentucky. They've been very, very concerned about. Islamic Jihad and Hamas and Hezbollah. for a long time in Covington. But anyway, there was no such display. And so it makes you wonder. this election itself, was it. another part of the humiliation ritual?

Was it a way of saying to the rest of. us, people sort of believed in. democracy, it's all fake. We can get a guy whose last name we. can't pronounce elected on a platform. everybody in America hates because we. can. Cuz we're billionaires and you're not. And of course our priorities are not. aligned with yours. In fact, we hate. your priorities and we hate you. We're going to do this to anyway. Even. in Kentucky, we can do it. It's possible that's the message they. were sending. Pretty certain, actually. So on one level, this is the saddest. moment in a long time.

It's not just the death of. Thomas Massie's immediate political. career, which may be resurrected, one. never knows. It's obviously the death of MAGA, whatever that was. But, it's also, of course, the end of. the Republican Party as we thought we. knew it. The Republican Party of right now bears. absolutely no resemblance to the. Republican Party. we thought we had just elected less than. a year and a half ago. None at all. Its parties are completely different. Its slogans are completely different.

It is not the same thing. And maybe there's a working majority. somewhere. of people who support the new priorities. of the Republican Party, but the. question would be where is that? Haaretz readers clearly do. They think. that was the most important race in. America. Amazing that they were. following it. But, in this country. nobody supports this. Nobody does. And so. that's not all bad. And it's not bad because the one thing.

we know is that nothing will be the same. after this. This is too much. They went. too far. This is a victory, but it's likely a. Pyrrhic victory, actually. Because we now know, because it's been. confirmed, how the system actually. works. And no, it's not a democratic. system. It bears no resemblance to a. democratic system at all. A small number of people who are more. concerned about a foreign country than. our country decide who gets elected. No, that's not a hateful conspiracy. theory.

That's a demonstrable fact that they. admit. So, it's on the basis of that that we. can proceed. And by that, I mean the. truth. That's the truth. What people whispered about, those. crazies on the internet, has now been. proven for everyone to see. Nothing will ever be the same again. And you got to think it's going to be a. little better. Because there will be actual reform. We. have gone too far. And so whatever comes next, whether it's. in the Republican Party or outside it, is likely to be much more honest and.

direct and less ashamed. Much more willing to tell the truth as. uncomfortable as it may make some. people. Because the truth is always. worth telling, always. And a politics based on anything but the. truth is always poisonous. So yes, this is a low point. Is it the. end point? Not at all. It's the beginning. Maybe of something great. >> What was the last time you heard someone. on their deathbed saying they wish. they'd spent more time working, particularly filling out forms or even. gathering possessions? That's never.

happened. In the end, all you're really. going to care about is the people you. love. And that's why life insurance is. important. It's a great way to make. certain that you still support your. loved ones even when you're gone. We. highly recommend life insurance through. Ethos. Why? Because Ethos makes getting. life insurance fast and easy. It's 100%. online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same-day. coverage. There's no medical exam. All. you have to do is answer a few simple. health questions. Up to $3 million in. coverage with some policies as low as 30.

bucks a month. Low rates from a vast. network of trusted carriers. That's the. key, competition. Take 10 minutes to get. covered today with life insurance. through Ethos. Get your free quote at. ethos.com/tucker. That's Ethos, e t h o s dot com slash. tucker. Application times and rates may. vary. >> Rich Baris has been following this for a. long time. Not as a candidate, but as a. pollster. As someone who is constantly.

measuring what people want and think. He's on the Republican side. We think. he's really insightful. There aren't. many pollsters we'd trust or ever want. to talk to, but he's at the top of the. list and he joins us now. Rich, are you. there? >> I'm here. Thanks for having me, Tucker. >> Thanks, thanks so much for for this. So. that's my assessment of what we just. saw. I think it's it's obvious that. Massie would not have lost without. the Republican Jewish Coalition and a. few neocon billionaires weighing in on. behalf of a foreign country. Do you.

think that's a fair. read? >> Uh 100%. I mean, just so the folks at. home understand, we've never seen. anything like you may have heard that. this was the most expensive primary in. history. But, to give people at home an. idea, primaries on the Republican side. uh in a district like this, you might. spend a half you may spend 500,000, maybe it goes to 2 million, Tucker. We. have never seen anything like this. This. isn't even an expensive media market, Kentucky 4. You have Louisville, but. this is not like a New York, a. California, or even some of the Florida.

media markets. This was an insane amount. of money. And what does that buy you? Uh look, in the clip you just played, there was a guy uh that I that I noticed. when I saw that clip, and he's waving. around a white sign with a Sharpie. marker written lower prices. He probably. has no idea that one of the few. appearances that his candidate made, he. was asked about gas prices and the Iran. war, and he flatly said the Iran war was. worth spiking gas prices. So, I look, that's what $35 million buys you. Uh.

they drove up turnout, guys. This wasn't. about AIPAC. It wasn't a referendum on. AIPAC. You know, just to give people an. idea what I mean by that, AIPAC will. never run ads. They didn't do it in the. the Chicago suburbs where they targeted. a Democrat. It was anti-war and. anti-foreign aid. You will never hear. the ad, and then at the end of the ad it. says, "This message was paid for by the. American right AIPAC." They're very good. at running these through other party. groups and making the election about. something else. And they made this. election about loyalty to Trump. Is he.

loyal enough to Trump? Is he loyal. enough to the party? And some of the. questions around some of the immigration. votes. And what are you doing in a. Republican primary with that? You drive. up turnout with boomers, and that is the. lesson here, Tucker. Uh Thomas Massie. was clobbering Ed Goleman with. millennials three to one. Three to one, not two to one, not one and a half to. one. Younger people need to vote, and. Republicans need to get it through their. heads right now. You used the word I've. been using. This was a pyrrhic victory. Congratulations, you spent $35 million.

you needed in November to get rid of the. last conservative in the US House of. Representatives to replace him with a. neocon that the American people rejected. 20 years ago and didn't elect. Republicans again until Donald Trump's. brand of America First came around. This. is a pyrrhic victory that they'll suffer. for later. >> They've got to know that. >> They do. >> Okay, do Okay, so do they? I mean, this. is the end of the Republican Party, not. just that I supported. I would never.

ever It's It would say moral to support. this, in my opinion. But anti-free speech, pro-killing, I. mean, it's grotesque in every way. But it's also the end of the Republican. Party that we had and the beginning of. something new and deeply unpopular. They. got to know that. >> They do, and I'm just going to tell you. a story. I won't You know, I won't blow. them up, but you know, being a pollster, unfortunately, I get bombarded by you. know, by donors and people who want to. pick my brain because they think they're. privileged and they're entitled to that.

phone call. But last night in having. several conversations, three of them. flatly told me when I was making the. argument that Okay, good job. You did. it. $35 million to win by nine points. Now, compare that to when Donald Trump. targeted Liz Cheney folks, who was. really a rhino, who was really a neocon, who really supported never-ending war. Liz Harrington barely needed that amount. of money, and she thrashed Liz Cheney by. more than 30 points. It was the biggest. election defeat for any sitting. incumbent in history, and it didn't.

require 35 million votes. So, you beat. him, you sent him home. He's going to. take 5% of his vote with him. Libertarians are going to be mad. They're going to do what they did to. Republicans in '18, which is run. candidates, independents, and. libertarians pulling one and a half. here, two and a two and a half there, costing Republican seats because there. will be races that close that. third-party vote share actually cost. them that race. And for what? And the. answer basically was, "We don't care. about November. Stop worrying about. November. That's something we can worry.

about later. The pendulum swings down. the road." This is what I got out of it. And you said it and you you addressed it. in your monologue. They really do feel that Thomas Massie. or anyone who opposes foreign aid, who. doesn't support unfettered give their. unfettered support to Israel and their. ventures in the Middle East, they cannot. separate that from anti-Semitism. They. think that that's they're anti-Semites. in secret and they're cow couching, you. know, that that anti-Semitism in some.

phony philosophy that they can't, you. know, vote for foreign spending. And. over the course of 45 minutes, it dawned. on me. They believe this. They really do. believe it. At first, for a long time, I. thought it was just junk. And it was. just typical almost left-wing kind of. use of how you expand the definition to. impose a label on somebody, like the. left does with racism and xenophobia. Um. which causes a backlash because when you. do that, you actually wind up creating.

more of what you're trying to put down, right? If you're constantly calling. somebody anti-Semitic for having a. difference in opinion over foreign. policy, you're you're almost assuredly. going to create more anti-Semitism. Um. which by the way, Mark Levin called me. an anti-Semite for pointing out. And it. gets insane. But they and I thought. that, you know, maybe they were just. being careless and reckless by doing. this. And it really did dawn on me last. night that they believe it. They believe it. >> Is there any I mean, if you think about. what they're defending, so they're. defending two things. One, the.

proposition that it's okay to be more. loyal to a foreign country than your own. country. And two, the behavior of that foreign. country, which is not only out of bounds. and unacceptable, but I mean, what. Israel has done in the last 2 and 1/2. years to people within areas it. controls, murdering women and children. by the tens of thousands. I mean, book that that will never be. forgotten in history. Is there any sense. do you get that they're like ashamed of. any of this? Is there any sense of.

they're doing something wrong or is it. entirely like displacement? Like anyone. who criticizes or notices it, they're. the real criminals. I I you tell me. >> Yeah, that's a good question. I think. the answer is no. And And the reason is, over the last year, you know, I'm a. public pollster and my job is to conduct. the research and not convey my own. opinion, but try to get people to. understand what voters are thinking and. why why they are thinking the way they. are. And over the last year, just. polling has been met with incredible. blowback. And recently, I reviewed this. internal report, it's an Israeli.

government report. And basically, it. admits they have a massive problem in. the West, particularly among younger. people in America, in Israel's image has. suffered badly. How are they going to. confront this and how how are they going. to overcome this and still keep their. special relationship with the United. States and alliances or at least. friendly, you know, relations with other. Western countries. Going through all of. these bullets, they couldn't decouple. what we were talking about either. Even. in the This is a government report. They. couldn't decouple it. But also, um not.

one single prescription had anything to. do with curbing Israel's behavior. And. that concerned me because I mean, yeah, it all came down to censorship, Tucker, right? Censorship, some form of. coercion, we're going to do this, we're. going to lean on these people, we're. going to use our friendships and. relationships here to address that group. of people. And none of it was dealing. with curbing their own behavior. And. that is from a you know, view, just from. public polling point of view, that's. their problem. One of the things that. jumped out at me last year was it was.

different. It was It was something we've. never measured before. Young Americans, and when I say young, I mean under 45, even those who identified as America. First, viewed what was happening in Gaza. as a genocide. And we have never seen. that before, right? I mean, typically. the line that we all hear, like the Fox. News lines, the human shields, the. normal stuff. That worked for a very. long time on people. I think younger people are less less. They're less myth-believing society. I.

don't think they are than boomers, for. instance, and they're going to have to. confront that reality. They just can't. steamroller it because the more they try. to steamroller over these people and and. their belief that they're entitled to. their opinion, the more backlash they're. going to get. And the They They. acknowledge they had this issue with the. left, but here's what I think that. they're they're missing on from what is. coming from the right now. I think. people don't fully appreciate, especially millennial men who supported. Donald Trump, Generation Z men who. supported Donald Trump, they don't. appreciate that these voters, many of.

them never voted. They have no vote. history or very little vote history, came out for Donald Trump in 24 because. they believed that he and J.D. Vance. were really their last chance. Their. last chance at getting to right the ship. in the country and to have a future that. people who lived before them had, right? Their inheritance was being squandered, the economy's just garbage, it costs too. much to live, there's no point to go to. school. Nobody is appreciating that they. have this point of view, and now they. look for better or for worse, fair or.

not, they look at Israel. with a little bit of contempt now. because they feel like. they derailed their presidency. They. kind of hijacked it, and they're going. to whether you agree with that or not, it's kind of irrelevant. That's how they. feel, and if you don't address it, it's. just going to blow up in your face. because 10 years from now, the you know, the first boomers turned 80 this year, Tucker. 10 years from now, if. Republicans can't put together a. coalition like the one that supports. Thomas Massie, you're not going to win a. general election.

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commission-based, which means they. actually work for you, not the banks. They're called America's home for home. loans for a reason. Call 800-685-5696. 800-685-. 5696, or visit. americanfinancing.net/tucker. >> So, I mean, that's so it. what you're saying, and I'm not in. denigrating in any way. I think it's. really smart, but it's also basically a. conclusion that anyone who's paying any. attention at all would come to. You.

don't have to be a pollster fluent in. math. >> thought so, too. >> Right. I mean, no. I think it's kind of. self-evident what what you just said, and I'm grateful that you said it. So, anyone. who is pushing the party into a series. of positions that the public hates. is by definition trying to destroy the. party, no? >> Yeah, this is the. This is the AB choice I was trying to. convey to people. before the Iran war, for instance, which. is. You. You have to decide, and if you're from.

the right, if you're of the right, you'll understand this better, obviously. If you thought going into. 2024 Democrats were the existential. threat to the country, lawfare, they. were locking up a former president, he. literally had to win in order to ensure. he wouldn't spend potentially the rest. of his life in jail. I mean, we crossed. the Rubicon, Tucker, before 2024. >> And if you truly believe that, then you. would Nothing Nothing would come before. that. The Iran war could crack the.

coalition up, could break up the. Republican party, and it just isn't. worth it, right? Because if you go back. to Democratic control, we're all in. danger. We're literally in danger. So, if you believe that line of argument, which I believe was a valid argument, I. think that's why Donald A big part of. why Donald Trump was elected. pretty easily, right? Compared to '16. If you believe that, then there's really. no way to square how you would put that. at risk for a foreign The The interests. of a foreign nation. There really.

There's no way to to put that together. You're either prioritizing the. viability, the coalition health, to make. sure that you stay in power, or you're. prioritizing something else. And if. you're doing that, then yeah, I mean, what We have to conclude that you're. just trying to break up the party. And. honestly, in the conversation I was. talking about last night, the truth is, and I think a lot of. people at home don't know this, the. truth is a lot of these people donate to. Democrats anyway. Their issue is not. whether or not Republicans control the. House or the White House. They really.

don't care, guys. As long as they have a. majority, bipartisan majority, that. preserves the foreign policy, you know, water spigot, you know, and. preserves the special relationship, then. they're good. That's their That's their. aim. They don't really care about the. viability of the Republican Party. >> They just don't. >> Cuz cuz they don't care about the. country, of course. I mean, by. definition, if if your top issue is. Israel, you should have no authority in. the United States because you're by. definition disloyal to the United. States. I mean, I I don't I mean, it.

just seems like a definitional. fact. Um so, I just think So, let me. ask, I've watched politicians, you know, work through their campaign messages, and there's a keen attention to to. polling and to popularity of the. message. What should our message be? How. many people will agree with this? Like, you've obviously spent your life with. this, so you know. better than I. How many people would you guess in the. United States are for, in order, covering up the Epstein files, the draft,

>> Yeah. >> and unlimited support for what Israel's. doing in Gaza? >> You know, the best way to answer that is. to tell you that we have polled. different messages that have come out. of, you know, the different We know some. of them have presidential aspirations, and we know what the messages are going. to be going into the going into the. midterms. And one of them was. articulated very well on the Democratic. side by Jon Ossoff. And we just, you. know, we simply asked people, "Look, we're going to read you a statement from.

somebody. We're not going to tell you. who it is, but we want you to tell us. whether you agree or disagree with. this." Uh the Republican the typical. Republican line, one came from Trump, one came from Rubio, got about 53% uh. you know, agreement across the board. The Democratic one was from Jon Ossoff, and it got over 80% agreement, including. 40 a little bit more, 42% of. Republicans, which directly said, you. know, Trump promised to expose the. ex-Epstein class, and steady covered for. them. It was a speech that, you know, circulated a lot on social media.

Nobody, and I think this goes to the. generational divide that we're dealing. with in this country, and the answer to. a lot of people who are upset over what. happened last night is that young people. have to vote. You're leaving, especially. on the Republican side, you're. essentially leaving your the direction. of that your party's going to go. You're. leaving it up to a group of people that. is a minority in their own generational. cohort. And what I mean by that is that. Yeah, Republican boomers are what we. call over here the Fox Boomer Con. I'm.

not trying to insult anybody. It's just. that it obviously makes up so so clearly. what who these people are. The Fox. Boomer Con is not even a a majority of. boomers themselves. And boomers really. we can split up into two groups. And the. older boomer element particularly is the. one that votes so heavily in Republican. primaries. The Gawron campaign, which. was really the Trump people, did a great. job getting them out and expanding the. electorate with those people. The. problem is, you know, younger people until they have families,

they don't really ratchet up their. primary vote history. And it is a simple. answer to people who are, you know, feeling that I heard from. countless people last night, vote. You. should have just voted. You have the. power. The boomers are kind of on their. way out. I'm trying to be mean here. I'm. just saying they've they've had their. electoral dominance for years now. I. mentioned before the first of them turn. 80, Republicans better realize. millennials will soon be the dominant. voting group sooner than people expect.

But as of right now, Gen X and. millennials alone could have a real. impact direction of who gets nominated. in these parties. And unfortunately, they just don't vote, Tucker. >> How do you think Well, actually before I. ask you about what's going to happen in. the future, the question of the draft, am I. imagining this or are people suddenly. talking about this? The neocons seem. anxious to have a draft all of a sudden. The White House, through its spokesman, denied. that they had ruled it out. Sorry for.

the double negative. Basically, the. question was, are you going to try to. institute a draft? And the response was, we're not going to answer that question. We're thinking about it. Am I Am I being. paranoid? I mean, Gauren just ran on a. draft. What is the draft? Where's that. coming from? >> Honestly, I. nothing there's nothing can make you. paranoid these days. Every time you. think we've seen the last of it or we've. seen the worst of it we're at the end of. the absurdity. Um, we we get something else. You know, every day it seems you know, the vote.

and this is the voters too. This is. voter sentiment. Every day they wake up. with something new that they just cannot. believe that would ever happen under. Donald Trump. So, I mean, I just. wouldn't put I would I would hate to. tell you tell you that I spoke to this. person or that person. They told me, "Oh, don't worry about it. That's just. you know, bloviating or people speaking. off the cuff." Uh, because I have. But, then I've had these experiences in the. last year with other issues. And then. two months later it becomes a serious. issue. Amnesty is one of them, by the. way.

>> Yeah. >> You you'd never think of something like. that happening get even before Trump was. elected or even in Trump's first term. It just seemed unthinkable that he. wouldn't do it. And now here we are and. it's a very serious push. I mean, I. think the president's with somebody. who's. if not Maria Salazar, Mike Lawler has to. be one of the most pro-amnesty. Republicans in the House of. Representatives. He's with him today. >> Well, the neocons love amnesty because. the point is not simply to help Israel, but to destroy the United States. And. Mike Lawler is all in on destroying the. United States. There's no question about. that. Um,

so what is the public's view of the war. in Iran? >> This thing has always been unpopular. This is one of the more, you know, head. scratching isn't even. a strong enough term, but this is. something's left me dumbfounded. We have. never seen a president try to start a. war or or start one without selling it. to the public first. I mean, folks, I. mean, I know I'm I'm 44. You know how. long Herbert Walker Bush I mean, he lied. to do it, but do you know how long he. took to sell the the first Gulf War to.

the United to the people in the United. States? We heard about babies being. thrown out of incubators. Of course, that was a total charade, but at least. they put the charade on. Even George. Bush himself, you know, after 9/11, Tucker, they didn't just go into Iraq. We were in Afghanistan. They had the. build-up. They used it as a pretext, and. George Bush really made his case. This. was And those, by the way, those. conflicts became popular. This thing. never became popular. And the president. didn't even try to sell it.

The closest we we got There's always a. rally around the flag effect where the. president's voters want to support what. he's doing. So, even if they don't. really support it, they'll temporarily. say, "Yeah, I kind of I'm with him on. this." We couldn't get it any closer to. a pose plus nine. The thing started at, you know, 21% support, 70% opposition, and it's almost right back to there now. The next time we pull it, which is soon, it's going to be in 2 days, I I bet it's. back to that level or maybe even worse. because now we've seen gas prices and. some of the other things that the.

American public really didn't want. And. this is This is Gas prices, casualties. We did ask them about this before the. war kicked off. Would you be willing, you know, to to tolerate the pain at the. pump? Would you be willing to tolerate 0. to 5,000, 5,000 to 10,000 casualties? I. mean, the answer was zero casualties and. no pain at the pump. It just wasn't a. priority. And I think again, for people. who say, "Well, he had to stop him getting the. new you know, getting the nuclear. program back off the ground." I mean, guys, the bottom line is people are tired of.

this because they're not seeing their. own needs at home being met. It's simple. you know, Maslow hierarchy of needs kind. of thing. I mean, people can't meet. their basic needs, let alone anywhere. else up the pyramid. If they can't meet. their basic needs, they're not going to. care about the needs of other nations. And they may say and may you know, might. be you know, you play a game with a poll. on how you would have questioned Tucker, but Americans will never prioritize. their own needs over some the needs of. another country. I mean, you know, they'll never put the needs of another.

country over their own needs, is what I. meant to say. >> Things around the world are moving so. fast right now, it's impossible to keep. up with all of the changes. But we do. know that when those changes happen, markets change too, and nothing changes. faster than the price of precious. metals, gold and silver. It just shifts. in an instant because it is a reaction. to and against what's happening in the. world. So timing is essential. If you're. thinking about adding precious metals, and you definitely should, we do, you.

need to know when prices are going to. move and why they're moving. And. Bitallion Metals makes that all really. simple. You can buy the dip when it. happens. So if you want real-time alerts. sent directly to your inbox when gold. and silver prices move, go to. bitallionmetals.com/alerts. Markets move fast, stay ahead of them. So it's bitallionmetals.com/alerts. >> Well, how do you know. >> It was sold the president sold it not.

I I don't think in a straightforward way. by saying Israel wants us, we have to. help Israel. He sold it by saying Iran. can't have a nuclear weapon and that's. the most important thing. Do you remember any polling this winter. in January or February that showed, excuse me, fear of Iran getting a. nuclear weapon at the top of voter. concerns? Were people really worried. about that? >> No. I mean, we do rank distribution for. most important issues weekly, which is. different than just simply asking which. is your most important voting issue. And.

the reason we do it like that is because. we want people to rank them so we can. see, you know, sometimes people have. secondary and tertiary issues that they. vote on. They're not just voting on one. issue all the time. Uh, foreign policy hasn't crept above. seventh place. Trump's entire term. We actually. established a White House focus tracker, which since CBS News you ran before, they tried to copy and The Wall Street. Journal tried to copy it once or twice, too. But, we ask people whether or not. they think the Trump administration is. too focused on foreign policy, not. enough on domestic, vice versa, maybe.

they're too focused on domestic, not. enough on foreign policy, and then. whether or not they're striking the. right balance. That tracker has been 60. north of 60% on the side of too focused. on foreign policy, not enough on. domestic, but the better part of now 2. and 1/2 months, but it has always been. majority feeling that he is too. distracted with foreign policy. >> So, what does this mean for the next two. big election cycles, the midterms and. the general in 2 years?

>> Yeah, as of right now, Republicans are. going to get creamed. I mean, they're. just anyone saying oh, they're just you. know, saying otherwise is just. gaslighting or glazing you out there. The New York Times poll that came out. the other day, that mirrors our polling. almost perfectly. Generic ballot is 11. points. Folks, that's historic. That's. worse than 2018. Republicans. redistricted, which is good. They came. out on top in the redistricting world, helped buffer against some of those. losses. But, when you're talking about. leads like 10, 11 points, you're talking.

about Trump districts that are 10, you. know, Trump plus 10, Trump plus 11. We're way outside of whether or not you. could win or hold battleground. districts. You have to make sure that. you don't lose any that are within the. swing, and that always happens. There. are always districts that nobody sees. coming, and then so-and-so gets. unseated. That always happens. This. looks like a bloodbath right now, Tucker. It does. And the sad part about. it is it was fixable. If you look at our. generic ballot trend, you'll see. Republicans had a lead since believe it.

was mid-2021. They had a lead on the generic ballot. and didn't lose it until until July of. 2025. What happened in July of 2025? >> Epstein. >> And then and then followed by bombing. bombing the three nuclear sites in Iran. I've been calling that like a. almost like a a two-piece a one-two. combo right to the chin of MAGA. That's. what put MAGA down. I mean. it it really isn't any deeper more. difficult than that. People elected. Donald Trump to focus on their domestic.

needs to focus on you know the those. broken promises and those betrayals that. he said in his own inauguration not you. know to to rec to remedy that uh to fix. that to make it right uh to be their. retribution to use his own words. They. they weren't talking about foreign. policy retributions. They were talking. about squaring things at home. And the. reason the Epstein issue hurt so bad. um I think it's. a minor correction in his strategy. wouldn't even have damaged him that. much. I think people would have given.

him a lot of grace. But people who don't. understand why it hurt him don't. understand that Epstein was a symbol. He. was a proxy of that ruling class that. Trump ran against. And it's not just a. ruling class that rigs the system and. you know games it for their own gain. It's a it's a class that rigs it games. it for their own gain at their expense. So they wanted these people punished and. held to account and this was basically. one of the worst things he could have. done. And then from that on to pivoting.

to foreign policy was just more than. base could take Tucker. >> And it revealed a side of Trump. I mean. he was so touchy about Epstein and I and. I do suspect it has to do with the way. Epstein died during Trump's first term. Everyone has forgotten. Um but I he revealed when pushed during. famously during that cabinet meeting and. someone asked him a question about. Epstein and he he attacked his own. voters on it. Like if if you're. interested in Epstein you're a bad. person. You're part of a Democrat hoax. or something like that. And I think.

people who really like Trump were stung. by that. Why is Is attacking me? I just. want to end corruption in Washington. Like, what was that? >> When that happened, I instantly thought. back to Rush Limbaugh and he repeated it. in one of his last broadcast, might have. been his very last broadcast where he. explained that no matter what the media. does to Donald Trump, no matter what the. FBI does to Donald Trump, it doesn't. matter. It cannot be an external force. They will never break the bond that. Donald Trump has with his voters. And. the more they attack him, the stronger.

the bond will get. The only way you can. break the bond is if Donald Trump. himself breaks the bond. And when he. sent that out, Tucker, I just I I felt. it. I I've been tracking the Trump. coalition. um. since the day he gave his CPAC speech. and said, "I'm serious about running. I. can't. I can't let another Bush or another. Clinton get in the White House cuz we're. doomed." He said at a CPAC event which. didn't you know, he wasn't as popular as. he was now. At that moment, I knew the.

guy was was for real and we put him in. our tracker for the Republican primary. I'll never forget it. Uh but from that. point on, we've been studying that. coalition since then. That hurt them. It. did. It disappointed a lot of them. And. I know a lot of his most ardent. supporters still the they'll they'll. argue against this. I mean, this is my. job. I do this every single day. All I. do every day is talk to voters. MAGA has. not only split. The question of whether. it is split is a done question. It has. fractured and it has transformed. It.

split, shrunk, and transformed. And we. put this up the other day. I mean, it. couldn't have illustrated it better. Going into November 2024, voters who. were above the age of. 65 actually identified more as a. traditional Republican and not a MAGA. Republican. If you were below 65. 65 and you were Republican, you majority. identified as either America First or. MAGA. We usually put them together and. then ask will force people to pick one. over the other. Um if you were a.

millennial, 30 to 45 years old, you were. 66%. identifying as MAGA. That is now around. 40%. If you were 18 to 29, it was like. 56 and now it's 36. If you're. 65 again, never got to majority. It's a. majority now and a traditional. Republican is about 45. So, what. happened? It got older. It got older and the younger voters who. really had so much riding on this thing,

um. they're out. They're out. >> I didn't know older people were so. bloodthirsty. Did you? >> Uh you know what I think it comes down. to, especially with when you study the. Boomer generation, they. a lot of people will split them into two. and the reason is because the the Jones. Boomers, you know, which is there's. Boomer one, Boomer two. The Jones. avoided the draft and not by their by. choice. It's just their birth year. I. think the other generation that was. forced to deal with the war, um.

they. were not. they were not brought up in an. environment like us. You got your news. from the mainstream media. There was no. way to double-check it. There was no. online social media podcast, maybe there. was radio, of course, but it wasn't like. it is now. They are still very. institutional. I think that's the word. That's probably the fairest word. They were the ones during Trump's first. term. Ironically, guys, they were the. ones who more were more likely to. believe the collusion hoax because in. their minds they're thinking well, Fox.

wouldn't be running this if there wasn't. some truth to this. Like Fox wouldn't. lie to us like this. The rest of the. country remembers 9/11. The rest of the. country, you know, millennials, my. generation is is a great example. We. remember being told there were WMDs, right? We remember COVID, by the way, that hurt us greatly. I mean, there was. not you know, there was health risks for. the older generations, but there weren't. economic risks. So, we're much more. sensitive to whether or not institutions. are lying to us or not. And I think. they're just you know, more more.

trusting. And unfortunately, that leads. to more susceptibility for like war. propaganda, which is one of the hardest. propaganda, you know, forms of. propaganda to resist. They are much more. susceptible to it. >> Where does this leave people who voted. for Trump in 2024? The the huge number. of people who never voted, who really. bought the promise that he would put the. country first and their concerns above. those of Israel or or anyone else,

Epstein's friends. Like who do they can't They can really. vote for the Democratic Party, which. hates white people as like a. foundational belief. I mean, they say. they do, so I believe them. No, but they can't vote for the. Republican Party, which obviously shares. none of their views at all. Like is. there room for a new party. for them? >> I I. Increasingly, we're going to have to. start talking about that. Because the. people who the people who have voted. before, but they were maybe low. propensity, they voted once or twice. Remember 10X, right? For instance, that. was the entire point of that was to get.

people in Michigan and the Rust Belt who. don't really vote out to vote. Those. people will just stay home. They'll go. back to having low propensity vote. history, and they just won't vote. The. people who were first-time voters, especially if they're younger and they. have their lives ahead of them, um. they're I mean, the word to describe how. they feel right now is basically. apoplectic. It's not really anger, it's. more like disappointment. Um and I that. typically does lead to people staying. home, but they're go Many of them will. participate in the midterms. I just.

don't think they will. But in they have. to figure out what they're going to do. in the next general election. I think. it's too early now, but I think at this. point in our history, we have other. examples to go back to and rely on. The. last time there was a betrayal of this. magnitude, it was read my lips, no new. taxes. And instead, he raised taxes and. started what? A war, right? Uh and that. led to the fracturing of his coalition. into the Ross Perot coalition, which put. the Republican Party in the wilderness,

in the dark ages, the political dark. ages, for eight years. And it was only. until George W. Bush came in 2000, beat John McCain, who was your textbook. rhino, foreign policy hawk. He beat John. McCain for that primary running on what? Not on not on post-9/11 policy. He ran. on you know, we can't be the policeman. of the world. >> He rebranded rebranded conservatism. compassionate conservatism. That's what. it took. So, typically, historically, when we do see something like this, it's. very, very damaging to the to that party.

in power. >> It just seems like there's such. alignment on foreign policy and. economics between the Republican and. Democratic parties. And and I I mean, you haven't seen you. said the war is so unpopular, but you. haven't seen any mass protests against. it. Mass protests are typically funded. by left-wing nonprofits, and they're not. funding anti-war pro- protests right. now. So, that's kind of proof to me that. this war was, you know, every bit as. favored by Chuck Schumer as it was.

by Donald Trump. So, like, that's not an option, right? >> Yeah, I think in the short term. everyone should probably prepare. themselves for you know, the whatever. you want to call it, the the uniparty, the you know, the war bipartisan war. party, we should prepare for them to win. in the short term. If younger voters. aren't going to vote, especially in. primaries and midterms, we'll be left. with you know, two to four years of that. being almost inevitable, but this is.

what I would tell people who are feeling. you know, grim out there. It's only a. matter of time. This is something that the the Israel. first crowd just wants to deny and. pretend is isn't reality. The age signal. is way too strong. It is only a matter. of time. And just yeah, I mean, that's that. that's our current reality. I mean, it's. is what it is. >> So, la- last question. Thank you for. your really smart analysis. You've been. watching Trump since his famous or not. so famous CPAC speech.

And watching carefully and and polling. against everything he says. You saw the change in Trump. Is it a real, I mean, do you perceive. this as a massive change in worldview. for him? And if you do, what do you. think accounts for it? Why did this. happen? >> You know, I think it almost doesn't. matter what his view is, you know, what. he's personally thinking. The perception. among voters. it's it's a 180. It's completely. different. They see Donald Trump in uh. now May of 2026 far differently than.

they saw him in November of 2024. And. that's tragic for the Republican Party. and their their uh you know, their. aspirations and the people there's a. deep bench. You know, there's J.D. Vance. There are others, you know, what. what's going to happen to them? What's. the smartest move for them to make in. the future? He in 2024 made Republican. being a Republican cool again. And you. know, he won so many uh more younger. votes than Mitt Romney or a Mitt. Romney-like candidate could ever win. I. would leave you with this, too, you.

know, when we're talking about this. generational divide, which is the most. important conversation I think to have. Trump actually did 1 point worse in '24. with 65-plus than he did with it with. them in 2020. Yet, he won rather easily. even though he lost in 2020. How did he. do that, right? And it it's the it. really the answer is really simple. He. changed how people view the Republican. Party. And that he was the oppressed. And he was the one, you know, it's. amazing how he did it. You know, he's. like an older billionaire from Queens.

And yet, he got Hispanic, especially. young Hispanic men to. see eye to eye with him. To think, you. know, what I can identify with this guy. They're persecuting him. They're coming. after him. And a lot of these. communities, they know the power of the. state and the abuse of the power of the. state. They know it better than the rest. of us in many cases. And they identified. with him over it. That's all gone. I. mean, I. I I hate to just be so blunt about it, but the shine's off on that side, Tucker. It's It's been off. And uh at.

this point, it would take a radical. pivot to even attempt to get it back. >> Is Is there anyone who's polling well in. American politics? >> Uh. No, not really. Not really. I think in. 2028 Yeah, I mean, that's almost a good. thing because this has happened before. and for better or for worse, it usually. leads to dark horses on both sides of. the aisle that basically rise from the. ashes of their destroyed political. parties and become um. the leaders of new movements and try to.

take the country in new directions. Sometimes it ends up fake like a Barack. Obama, right? And sometimes it ends up a. good thing. We'll see, but at least it. provides an opportunity. >> Which we're so smart. I can't believe. you get attacked. You seem as objective. as a as a pollster can be. More even. than Frank Luntz, I'll say that. >> Oh, that's something. That's a bar to. hit. >> Yeah, I surprise myself, but I. appreciate that. >> Thank you for doing this. >> Anytime, Tucker. All the best. >> Thanks. And thank you for watching. We'll be. back next Wednesday.