Tucker Carlson and Michael Shellenberger Break Down the California Fires

So, I guess the first question is, thank. you for doing this. What, uh, are we rolling? We're rolling. Okay. Let's roll, shall we? Um, Good to be with you, Tucker. Nice to. see you again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I. Yeah. as I've said to you privately, but. I and I mean it, I think you're maybe. the best reporter working. I know you. don't even think of yourself as a. reporter, but a gatherer of facts and an. explainer of what they mean. I I think. you're the best. [Music]. [Applause].

[Music]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. Um, so, where do these fires, first of all, how. many fires are there and where do they. come from? I believe there's five active fires. right now. And these are ignition-driven. fires, meaning that this these are all. this is all chaparral or, you know, scrublands, Yes. you know, brush areas. So, this is this. is different than the Sierra forest.

Right. These are not forest fires. Yeah, these are not forest fires. And that. doesn't mean that you're doomed to them, but it's the it's not the same problem. that we get in the Sierras. So, they're. ignition-driven and they're obviously. wind-driven, but there's nothing. unusual, you know, I just interviewed a. climate scientist about this or rather a. environmental forest science scientist. about this. There's nothing unusual. about this. I mean, it is somewhat. unusual to get um, you know, you have a. dry period and then the Santa Ana winds. in January, but it's not like that never. happens.

Um, they. I'm working my way there, so the. ignitions. But I mean, the important thing to know. is that the National Weather Service put. out a. fire warning on January 2nd and a local. weatherman actually forecasted on. January 1st. They said we're headed towards super. dangerous moment. Um, the next day the. National Weather Service Los Angeles. held a briefing to underscore that. point. The day after that, the mayor. flew to Ghana. I mean, it's crazy. Like.

And these were public press conferences? Yeah, these were all I mean, it was. absolutely public and it goes to the. politicians first, but it's all said. publicly. It's the National Weather. Service. So, that so that so that that was like. literally on the 1st or 2nd, the. governor should have called out the. National Guard. He should have called. all of our neighboring states. He should. have called Canada and Mexico, asked for. all their backup help. They should have. started circling C-130s that are, you. know, they're specially retrofitted with. that can dump the fire retardant or or. water. They should have had helicopters.

circling to see where the fires were. It. should have been immediate mobilization. my ignorance. I I didn't, first of all, I didn't see that news when it happened, but I didn't know that. So, it was. really clear to the people who run the. city and the state that you had this. combination of dry conditions and heavy. winds, high winds. and and because there's so many. ignitions because of really these two. factors, mostly the electrical wires, you know, brushing up against, uh, you know, vegetation and turning into a.

fire. That's kind of the one of the main. ones. The other one is is homeless. people starting fires. all over LA. Half of all fires put out by the LA Fire. Department are started by homeless. people. It's been that way for years. Why do homeless people start fires? Uh, well, you know, it turns out meth. heads love to start fires. You know, there's just every drug has its kind of. weird element to it, but meth heads love. starting fires. They love destroying. things. Like meth is like the drug of.

nihilism. So, it's like perfect drug for. LA and California at the moment. these are not cooking fires. They could be cooking fires. But. starting fires to destroy things is very. methodic. Oh, yeah, for sure. But it's not evil or. anything. No, it's totally fine. Yeah, what could go wrong? But isn't, um, classically starting. fires and torturing animals, aren't. those like signs of sociopathy? Yeah, I mean, for sure. I mean, look, meth makes you you know, makes you. psychopathic, it makes you psychotic. It's meth induced psychosis.

But I mean, yeah, and all the crazy, I. mean, people behave I mean, things that. people do on meth, I mean, it is like. it's like they behave with like. superhuman crazy powers, the levels of. violence, the. assaults, the, I mean, you just when you interview. people, particularly people in recovery, that describe being on meth. I mean, they're just awake for like weeks at a. time. Like it's not even clear how they. get any sleep at all. So, that's just. that madness has continued. And, you. know, and Mayor Bass, who's the.

Wait, so just to isolate what you're. saying and. just to pause to kind of get this really. important point. Fires, at least half of fires in LA. County are started by homeless people. Yeah. And you believe that's driven by. their use of a specific drug, meth. Not totally. I mean, I think homeless. people are going to often start fires. for a lot of different reasons. I mean, drugs can start fires, but but the meth. heads are like into fire. Like it's a. big part of meth culture. It's just. starting things on fire. sees this in theological terms? It's.

like this is. I know, it's amazing. Well, it is amazing. Yeah. No, it's satanic. I mean, you have. to go it's totally satanic. it could be. Yeah. It's awful. Um, so, but you know, you kind of go. I mean, so first of all, that problem. should have been dealt with, obviously, years ago should never have been. allowed. So, but that they knew on January 1st, January 2nd that the fires were coming. Like it was inevitable that there would. be fires. Like there was like zero doubt. among anybody that knows anything about.

fire in Los Angeles that the fires were. coming, the fires were coming. So, the. like the governor should have been. there, the mayor should have been there. You should just like literally you. should it's all about and it's all about. prevention in part because by the time. the fire trucks are having to weave. their way up those little hills of, you. know, the Pacific Palisades, it's over. I mean, so the thing to keep in mind is. that Okay, well, so that's the first. thing is that they just have to mobilize. in advance. feature for people who aren't aware of. the geography of LA. Oh, it's just. incredible. I mean, it's why it's so.

beautiful, right? Beautiful places are. dangerous. Exactly, right. So, so that was so that that's like the main. event. So, the I mean, cuz I knew I did. my first thing I did is I was like, look, they're going to come out and say. it was inevitable and that's just a. total lie. Because of global warming. Yeah, because. of global warming and I mean, anyway, we. can get so there's so many places to go. here, but just on the most practical. sense, they knew the fires were coming. and they didn't do anything. The mayor. leaves the country. She flies to Ghana. after having promised not to leave the.

country, by the way, as mayor. She's. traveled six at least six times out of. the country and she promised not to. travel. Why is it important the mayor be there? You can say, "Well, aren't there other. people in charge?" Because it's a. command it's a in emergency command. situation. She has to be able to issue. orders and to, you know, wave. regulations and make things happen. The. governor has to be doing that. They. didn't do that. They should have had, by. the way, they get they should get the. fire trucks up into the fire areas right. away. They can also start, you know, they can start clearing brush. They can.

start, you know, but literally they. could just be in those neighborhoods. just sitting there for days at a time. waiting for the fires to happen, put. them out as soon as they happen. Um, I'm. not saying that they would have been. able to prevent all the fires from. happening, but you remember like the big. fire in 19 in 1993, I think it was Laguna Beach or maybe it. was Malibu as well, but it was like 700. homes. We're at 10,000, you know, structures at this point, homes and. buildings gone, you know, 200,000 people. evacuated.

it's like it's it's madness. It never. needed to get to that level. Okay, so that's the first thing. They. just needed to have been there before. the fire started and they didn't do that. because the politicians are just they're. focused on themselves, they're focused. on the next political office they want. to get. So, that's the first thing. The second. thing is the water runs out, right? So, everybody So, that was the and you hear. people go, "Oh, well, there's nothing. you can do because like once the homes. are burned down, like the water lines, you can see the pictures, you know, the. water like will be spilling out, you.

know, of the homes." And so, that. lowered the water pressure. That was a total lie. There is something. called the Santa Ynez water reservoir, which is the potable water, meaning the. drinking water that also goes into the. fire hydrant system cuz the fire. hydrant, you know, the the fire hydrant. system is the drinking water system. It's the same thing. There's it's the. exact same system. That reservoir was empty and it was the. second largest of the 10 water potable. water reservoirs that serve LA County.

There let me make one distinction here. because there's actually two kinds of. reservoirs. There's the reservoir with. the snowmelt water, these really big. lakes, basically. Um, and then there's. the and that's that's the unpurified. water. And then those and then they. purify it and then they feed into these. reservoirs where they store the water. for for all sorts of reasons, for. emergencies. So, that is an absolute. crime that that Santa Ynez reservoir. Why? Because first of all, it was it's. right next to the Pacific Palisades. So,

for people that don't know, Pacific. Palisades, of course, is like right near. it's on your way to Malibu. It's like. the last big neighborhood before you get. to the. And they're Palisades. They're over the. water. That's right. And so, they have a. res like you look at the Google Maps and. you look at where the Santa Ynez. reservoir is, it's right next to like a. few thousand feet uh, from Pacific. Palisades and it's above it's really. high up. And so, if you had had water. coming from that, the firefighters would. have had plenty of water. It would not. have they would have had the water. pressure even if you had lost some homes. and had those those the water out. So, I.

mean, so two major. um, failures. The first was the failure. to aggressively respond days in advance. even though they had very clear. warnings. The second was the reservoir. was empty. One reporter has reported that the that. the. the firefighters had not been warned by. the Los Angeles Department of Water and. Power that that reservoir was empty. If. that's true, that's just additionally. scandalous, but. um one of the.

one of the things that we think probably. happened is that they um had been. required to build have a cover for the. clean for the for the Santa Ynez. Reservoir, which is the potable water, the cover to prevent the water from. being contaminated. In the old days, like the '50s and '60s, you know, birds would poop in those. reservoirs and the and they would just. put a bunch of chlorine in them. And. then we decided, well, that the water. was still had a lot of you know, it. still was not was not particularly. clean, so we wanted to be cleaner, so. you can just put a cover over it, which. is a kind of plastic or rubber lining.

Um it appears that there was a tear in. that. They had to repair it. They should not have removed that water. ever um during a fire season. If you. need to make that repair, you you do. need to drain right you know, right. before you do the repair, but you would. make that drain. The people that I. interviewed. said, "Look, it it would take you know, days if not a couple of weeks to repair. It was empty for at least a year." So, it was sitting there for a year. And the. person I interviewed who works at a as a.

senior executive at a. different. um water utility in California said, "If. if we had any of our reservoirs empty, we would be like super nervous the. entire time. And you would also then. have backup water systems." So, it's. like any catastrophe, you know, you just. have multiple errors occurring in. advance and at the moment. Um. and then the fires and then the actual. ignitions. You can't completely prevent. ignitions, uh but you can significantly. reduce them. One would be to not allow.

people to camp outside all over uh Los. Angeles uh Los Angeles County with uh. somewhere around um I think it's 40 to. 60,000 uh homeless people in the whole. county uh madness. And then the other is. the electrical wires that brush up. against the vegetation and and create. fire. Um with that you want to clear the. vegetation from around the wires. That's. obvious. And then and then you can also. just stop I mean, this is a not great. solution, but you could certainly do it.

in a pinch if you need to. You just stop. the electricity from going into those. homes for some period. I mean, it's a. drag. We haven't I live in the Berkeley. Hills, which is also a dangerous fire. zone. And when the winds are really. strong, they'll just cut off power as a. precaution so that if there so that to. prevent an ignition. So, I think the the thing that the reason I. wanted to come on this your show um even. though I'm in the midst of a huge book. deadline is because I'm really concerned. about this nihilistic discourse that.

there's literally nothing that could be. done. I mean, that is that is exactly. where the politicians want to go. I. worry that you know, ordinary people. have that idea. The problem is I mean, it's absurd. I mean, this idea that you. couldn't live in Los Angeles, right? And. it's like. it's like you can say it about anywhere. You can be like, "Oh, it's there's. snowfalls in this place during winter.". You know, or hurricanes. I mean, we're. in an area that's Hurricane Valley, right? Like huge amounts of hurricanes. That's that's not how humans roll. Like. we're capable of living in many. different environments, including with.

extreme weather conditions. And we're. really good at that. stop my kids from dying of tetanus. Right. to death or whatever. I mean, what. Yes. It's so nihilistic. No, that's It's so nihilistic. And you. trace it back. I mean, the the the best. the most articulate. um. advocate of that view is a Marxist named. um Mike Davis, who wrote this book. called City of Quartz. It's a crazy. nihilistic book, but he he had an essay. and also it's a chapter in that book. called Let Malibu Burn. I mean, it's.

classic. kind of radical left uh politics. It's. classic sort of. envy or sour grapes. I mean, sour grapes. goes I can't remember the the parable, but basically it's like some animal. wants to eat these grapes, but they're. up too high and then he says, "Oh, well, those grapes were sour anyway." It's. like it's a consolation for your own. personal weakness and failure. That's just you know, let Malibu burn. I. mean, um you know, you have a ideology. of Marxism that is based on resentment.

and envy. And so then you go, "Well, yeah, those rich all those rich houses. should go up in flames." It's a fantasy. I mean, it's a left-wing fan I should. know. I was on the radical left. Like. the fantasy you hate the rich people. because you because you want their. wealth and you you admire them in some. level, but you know, you can't get it. So, I mean, this is how envy works. So, you end up constructing this whole. political ideology. I mean, this is what. Marxists have done. And it's infected like the citizenry. I. mean, it's infected the politicians. And.

so there's this I think that even though. it you it's not consciously the. politicians aren't consciously saying, "Oh, let's let Malibu burn." That is the. con that is the the behaviors they have. taken have had that impact. So, I think. that what you're seeing in real time in. these in these fire these fires in Los. Angeles, these destruction fires, is the. manifestation of a nihilistic ideology. It's an emergent quality. It happens. through a million small steps, but this heavy focus on left-wing.

ideology, whether it's DEI or ESG or. climate apocalypse or just class. resentment, manifests itself in like the. most spectacular, beautiful. neighborhoods just being turned into. ashes and cinders. It's also on a more prosaic level a. violation of like the most basic. agreement there is between citizens and. their government, which is I send you. more than half of what I own, but you keep my house from burning down. and meth heads from scaring my children. or whatever. Like you provide public.

safety, fire protection, you know, water, sewer, electricity. Like just the basic stuff seems to be. totally ignored. Absolutely. So, like. why is anyone paying taxes? Why isn't. there a revolution? There should be. Well, because of course they're all. trapped by this ideology. I mean, these. are the neighborhoods that voted. overwhelmingly for Kamala, that voted. overwhelmingly for Gavin Newsom, that. voted overwhelmingly for Karen Bass. I. mean, Tucker, I I watched focus I saw. focus groups um in 2022 with uh two uh.

Latinos, men and women separated, Latino. group and a white group. And the Latinos. were great. I mean, they were just like. when they started talking about the. mayoral race, they were like, "Well, what are their positions? And like what. are their policies? And what do they. want to do?" And whatever. They were. very rational about it. They're very as. you would hope. You they were. self-interested. They were. Yeah, what do I get out of this? What do. I get out of these campaigns? Fair. Fair question. The white the whites I mean, it was. amazing. Like they First of all, they. every focus group when the the moderator. would just be like, "Oh, hey, you know,

just how's it going around here?" They. don't even try to lead the conversation. anywhere. And everybody just starts. talking about the homeless situation and. the crime, you know, which is basically. continuous with homelessness. And then they would be like, "Oh, yeah, okay. What about the remedies? Oh, there's a mayoral race coming up." I. think it was in the it was like in the. summer, you know, that these focus. groups were held in 2022. Bass. Caruso versus Bass. And they. hadn't really been thinking ton about. it, but there's a moment there where you. see it dawns on the white focus group. participants. And they were not like. recruiting like leftists or Democrats or.

anything. It was just supposed to be a. mixed group of swing voters. And they just as soon as it dawned on. them that there was a black woman. running, they were like, "Oh, well. I. mean, that's I mean, got to vote for the. black woman." Like it was the most. racist. Like you would think like in the in the. most racist moments in American history, you know, um the stereotypes that we. would have, you know, about the South or. whatever about you know, reconstruction. or something. Like people would not be. as open and honest about it, but they.

were just like openly like, "Well, we. have to vote for the black woman." And. then in the rest of the focus group, when they A lot of them knew who Caruso. was cuz you know, he's famous for these. really spectacular, you know, housing. developments. And also they're that kind. of calling them malls is a kind of just. little side just really beautiful like. um outdoor shopping centers with like. lawns and you can get like a fantastic. restaurants and you can like have the. kids can play freely on these lawns. I. mean, it's sort of tragic because of.

course it's all private. It's not public. spaces, but nonetheless you feel safe. You go in there. It's amazing place. So, they didn't even vote for that. I wat These white participants, I was. watching them through basically over. like the next hour hour and a half. explaining why Caruso was a bad guy for. just running against this black woman. Like it was just outrageous. And what is. he trying to do? He's trying to make. money. I mean, which is just crazy cuz. of course he's just you know, like he's. like a billionaire. I mean, he's. self-made and um extraordinarily.

successful person. And clearly running. for mayor is an altruistic act. So, it. was just appalling. So, of course I. mean, I have to say, you know, What is. that? I mean, I I've been to every big. white country in the last year, Australia, Canada, UK, US obviously. And. that very specific brand of self-hatred, nihilism, that brain disease is. everywhere. It's not just here. It's. it's throughout the Anglosphere. Yeah. What what And I it's history.

changing and that's a fact. Like what is. that? Why is the white world determined. to kill itself? Do you have any idea? It's really noticeable. Yeah, I mean, there's so much in that. I mean, it. seems like there's like multiple levels. I mean, at one superficial level or at. least a kind of psychological, sociological level, they're all. competing with each other to show who's. a better person. Yes. I I more the more hatred I express. towards white people, the better I am as. a human being. your own kids is like the measure of. virtue. Oh, yeah. The nihilism. Um.

Obviously, this is a very old story. about decadence and of you know, comfort. And you start to kind of uh. believe I mean, there there's something. really checked out from reality about. the whole thing. I mean, it first of. all, it's um the stories that get told. are just, you know, like absurd. Like. 1619 being the founding of America. That's just obviously wrong. The country. was founded, you know, our constitution. 1789, Declaration of Independence 1776.

And not that, but like slavery was never. at the heart of the United States. It. was always It was a whole place. committed to It was. English Americans or the American. English as they were referred to wanting. to create a country the first time that. was just founded on the enlightenment. ideals of freedom and of free. expression. I mean, so important they. put it the first amendment, they insist. on a bill of rights. So, you just get. this completely twisted. um. you know, disinformation story about the. United States that gets embraced.

Yeah, it's nihilism. I mean. But in But embraced by whites at whom. it's aimed. So, it is a I mean, leaving. aside the fact that it's it's false, but. you know, a lot of creationists are. false, but this one is false in a. specific way, which is like you suck and. you should die and all the way it's. like, "Yeah, you're right, I should.". Right. What It's. I mean, it's end of civilization sort of. ideology, isn't it? it. So, like what I don't I've never. seen anything like it. No, and when you. read the old. is the whites, too. Oh, yeah. No, cuz the Latinos I mean, they're still. They're like, "What?" Yeah, they're.

for sure. They're like working They're. like more working class, they're more. Christian, they're more they love. America more, they remember where they. came from more. So, yeah. I mean, it's also Yeah, so. it's just in some ways it's an old story. of a civilization. just at its end. I mean, including all. the transgenderism. I mean, of course, you know, that's the Camille Paglia's. famous writing about how that that shows. up at the end of civilizations. And so, you know, if you read Toynbee, it's like one of the characteristics is.

when the elites stop the creative class. of elites, which is I mean, Los Angeles, um. they stop identifying with their own. working class and they start to identify. with uh you know, with outsiders, basically with with people from. foreigners from outside the country. That's another sign of a civilization at. its end. So, we were at a meeting here. at TCN the other day and I looked around. the room and every other person had a. kind of ruddy vitality, with pink cheeks, alertness, bright.

eyes, full mental acuity, and a cheerfulness. you could almost smell. And I asked, "Why does everyone look so. good?". And part of the answer, of course, is. they like what we do for a living. It's. really interesting. We think it's. important. But another reason everyone. looks so good is because they'd all had. a great night's sleep. I'm not making. this up. Almost everybody here uses a new sleep. technology from a company called Eight.

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Again, that's eightsleep.com/tucker. Better sleep today and look great in. your morning meetings as our guys do. You alluded a minute ago to its cause. being affluence? Just generational affluence makes people. It does It feels that way to me, too. I. I'm not an I mean, there's the I mean, it's a cliche that I like a lot of. cliches, got a lot of truth to it, is. the you know, the the good times make. soft men and soft men make bad times. Um. So, I mean, I There's obviously been a.

huge correction in the United States, which is, you know, welcome, which is a. sort of re-embrace of of the ideals of. the United States. Yes. Um. I mean, let's hope that this has been a wake-up. call for the people of Los Angeles. I. mean, it's um. they are reaping what they sowed. And. the people of California are reaping. what we sowed. And you know, that is um. you know, I mean, it's really quite. symbolic. You know, it's like the. neighborhoods of the of the elites in.

Los Angeles that are really that it. really got the most affected, that are. having to flee. And but again, I mean, part of the reason I wanted to come on. I've been writing about it every day and. trying to surface the stories of the. utility the water utility executives. And I've got a story coming out later. today from a firefighter. who uh you know, like basically just. described I mean, the firefighters, of course, the men and. women on the ground doing the hard work, they're blameless. But I mean, the. destruction There's 29 fire departments.

in Los Angeles including LA. County Fire Department. You know, there's 88 cities in People don't. realize like Los Angeles is a city, but. then there's a much larger county around. it with 88 cities in it. And there's um and not all of them have. fire departments. In fact, most of them. don't, right? So, the ones that don't. have their own fire departments, they. depend on LA County Fire Department. But um you know, and it's been this way. for a long time. So, it's not like it. can't work, but it definitely introduces. a level of complexity into it. I mean, the priorities of these fire. departments, it's not just like a social.

media meme. I mean, the the it really. has been DEI. Like it really has been. the priority of these fire departments. The first priority of the fire. departments should be to put out fires. and keep people safe and save lives. But. the first priority has been DEI. I mean, that is clearly Is there evidence? Do we. have social science that shows that. lesbians are better firemen than. non-lesbians? I mean, I mean, the What are the chances, right? That like all three of these executives. are I mean,

um you know, it's like it's also sort of. like I mean, it's so it's funny because. the way that the the defenders of it. sort of talk about it is as though. they're imposing equality. Actually, they're demanding that that it not be. based on merit. I mean, there First of. all, there was never any evidence that. the fire departments were like. systematically or structurally excluding. qualified people. I mean, um it's not to say that it never. happened, there wasn't some racism. I. mean, of course, there is, but it's like. you're getting They're getting to a. situation where like people are getting.

promoted who were not as qualified as. other people on basis of race. I mean, that is anathema to the American system. And by the way, the people of California. have now twice rejected racial. preferences. One of them in 1996, I believe, and then the other again in. 20 Was it 2018? I think. rejected gay marriage, but they're not. allowed to get what they want actually, it turns out cuz Whatever you think of. gay marriage or racial preferences or. whatever, if you believe in democracy. and you have a referendum system, you. have to abide by the results. Well, yeah, and they haven't. No, they.

haven't. I mean, the spirit The spirit. of California I mean, there's a true. spirit of California that I do think is. very American, which is really. egalitarianism. I mean, the American. creed, if you believe Daniel Bell's um. analysis of it, you know, it's it's. liberty, it's laissez-faire, it's. individualism, and it's egalitarianism. That's the state I grew up in. It was. the most American of all states. That's right. It's not equity, it's it's. equality of opportunity. That's what. egalitarianism It doesn't matter who. your family was. We used to say when I. was a kid, no one in California used his. last name. Now, why would that be? You.

know, you go back east as we called it. I We go in the summertime. It'd be like, "Hi, I'm Michael Shellenberger." In. California, it's like, "I'm Mike." Well, my father would always say, "That's. because in California, it's not about. the legacy of your family. It's not. about cast. It's about you. Can you do. it or not?" Right. That seemed like a. great system to me. It's great. I mean, that's what I love I mean, that's the. part I love about California. It's like. I I lived on the East Coast for like a. year. It was a traumatic experience. You'd go to parties and someone would be. like, "Oh, what school did you go to?". Totally. And then they'd be kind of. looking over your shoulder. And you're.

like, "Well, what Like who cares what. school I went to? Like, you know, who am. I? Where are my passions?" And Exactly. So, that was like I was like, "Wow, that. is like that is weird." You know, in. California, it's like, "What's your jam, dude?" You know, it's like really like, "What are you into?" You know, it's. That's like the best of it. you as a person? Yeah, who are you as a person? It's the. human you know, it's like there. obviously there can get culty and. whatever, but I mean, it is the the best. of that human potential. not held responsible for the sins of. people you're related to. Well, I'd say and you know, I come from.

a complicated family, so I always loved. that idea. You know, whatever. It's like you're. judged on you and the choices that you. make and the character that you have. Right. Which is Which is actually. radical individual responsibility. I That's what I always thought. Yeah. I mean, that was always for me it. was like you know, Victor Frankl who. wrote Man's Search for Meaning, this is. incredibly Holocaust survivor. The whole. thing was was like, you know, being in a. death camp shouldn't control how I think. about the world. I mean, that's about as. radical of a of an individual mentality.

point of view. And now, of course, that's viewed as very right-wing and. very unsympathetic and whatever. But. Victor Frankl was just loved by the. existentialist California left in the. '60s. I mean, he would sell out these. huge auditorium in Berkeley and they. would, you know, they'd go to Esalen. so. I mean, you go from that to basically. nobody taking responsibility. I mean, it's incredible. living under the crushing burden of. history, most of it misconstrued and a lie. anyway, but still the idea that the past.

is determining the present and the. future. That's like the least. Californian, least American idea ever. That's so well spoken. No, no, it's. totally brilliantly well spoken. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's like we. in in in our next book we're doing we. were working on this idea of these. singularities meaning like these just. awful events in the past, the Holocaust, slavery, indigenous genocide. And they. become like gods for secular people. They become like super present. Like, you know, there's it's just everything.

that we do is affected by slavery and. you know, everything now this is. indigenous land. I mean, I was going. through the I was just going through um. the all of like the various documents. over the years of like water and fire. and disaster in Los Angeles and they. they like all open with land. acknowledgements. You know, you're just. like, well, yeah, like literally you think that white. people don't belong here. Like that is. literally what you're saying in those. land acknowledgements. You're saying, we. don't belong here. And you may have seen there's a very. there's a clip that went viral on social. media with the deputy police the deputy.

fire chief of Los Angeles where she's. sort of saying, oh yeah, people ask me, you know, can you carry my husband out. of a house, you know, in danger? And. she's like, well, you know, your husband. got himself in a place that he shouldn't. have been. That was her response. It was. like Was that I saw that video and at my. first I was that can't be was it was the. was that real? I know, it looks like a parody. It's. crazy. You're like, yeah, that's that's. literally your job is to be able to. carry someone Can you imagine like. someone be like, oh, yeah, your father, your elderly father, um you know, we.

couldn't carry him out of the house and. he shouldn't have been in that house. when it was burning in that house. raped walking to school. Well, she. shouldn't have been wearing a skirt. Right. Yeah. Which was all black. There's like the left campaign like when. I was in college like that was the whole. Don't blame the victim. That was the. whole thing. Of course they're all Which. I would kind of agree with by the way. I. mean, you should be able to look. attractive and not get raped. Of course. to be old and immobile and not die in a. fire. Like what are we even saying? That's civilization. It's civilization. Exactly. What's the point of.

civilization? The point of civilization. is to protect the vulnerable, to make it. possible for people to reproduce and. continue. Right. So make it possible for you to. have kids and your kids to have kids. Like there's no reason to have it other. than that. So at the most basic level. Yes. And so I don't understand like how. could she say something like that and. not get fired or arrested? She should have been fired as soon as. that came out. I mean, and Gavin Newsom. should have called for her to be fired. The mayor should have called for her to. be fired. She's still in that job. I. mean, she's that that's dangerous. Like it's a. violation of firefighter ethics. It's.

that person is a danger. In other words, she's going around suggesting to all of. her people that work for her that. they're not responsible for saving, but. I think it reflects the mentality which. is a nihilistic mentality which is a we. don't belong here. You know, we stole we. stole this land. And so you so and this. is this you know, mal let Malibu burn. I. mean, it is. definitely definitionally nihilism. I. mean, it's anti-civilization nihilism.

You know, there's sort of two forms of. nihilism. One of them is basically. anti-civilization, anti-human, anti, you. know, modern life. And it stems from. this earlier nihilism which is that life. has no meaning. We're just like animals. in the famous Russian novel Fathers and. Sons by Turgenev, you know, the the. nihilistic character dissects a frog and. says, we're just like this frog, you. know, you're just we're just matter, you. know, we're just dead matter, just this. assembly. So it's a very dark nihilistic.

story that then leads to. this just um. yeah, nihilistic anti-civilization. ideology which became very fashionable. I mean, City of Quartz, the Mike Davis. book, I mean, it was a very fashionable. book to read in places like Pacific. Palisades and Hollywood and Santa Monica. and. um and Venice. So yeah, I think it's um. you know, I hope it's a wake-up call. I. don't know if it will be, but it is uh completely preventable.

disaster. Fires are definitely not. completely preventable, but that level. of destruction absolutely is. And. anybody who says that it's that it is. not preventable should be as far away. from power as possible. Like anybody who. believes that it was inevitable to lose. 10,000 uh homes and buildings in Los. Angeles over a week, they should not be. in they should be very far away from. political power. They should not be in. charge of any fire department um because. it ends up becoming a self-fulfilling.

prophecy. So I've taken you right to 50,000 ft. The future of the whites and all the. stuff um which I'm grateful that you. addressed. Uh. but just back to the and I'm so I'm. sorry for digressing so much. Back to. the the first question. How did this. start? You gave a great explanation. Did. climate change play a role? Did was this. caused by climate change? No, it's not caused by climate change. I. mean, certainly warmer weather is all. else being equal makes the wood, you. know, drier, but um there is no change.

in precipitation over since 1877. They've kept very good records of. rainfall annual rainfall in the Los. Angeles basin and it's unchanged. Really? There are I know, it's. incredible. There's wet years and dry. years. You know, you look at it. I just. posted it on X. It's just people can go. look at it. It's from the Almanac. No change in precipitation at all in Los. Angeles. Um there have been Santa Ana. winds in January many times in the past. There have been you know, and and by the. way, like we this we this is a dry year.

now, but the last 2 years were very. heavy rains. Too heavy. Yeah, so. Mudslide heavy. Yeah. And so um you. know, we're it's extremes. I mean, it's. what you know, it's why California is so. beautiful. It's a place of extremes. And. so we you know, we adapt to that. I. mean, you know, like. But there's been no in the aggregate. change in rainfall in 140 years. No, absolutely not. Not not at all. Yeah. No, it's it's actually a remarkably. stable climate.

Well, it is a I mean, anyone who's lived. there can tell you that's that's its. appeal. Yeah. It it is a pretty stable climate. actually. Yeah, I mean, it's a stable. climate with these amazing extremes. So. like you know, you always get these I. mean, the best I mean, for my favorite. weather is like after like, you know, 3. days of just intense rains and you're. just like trying to make sure that your. house isn't flooded and you know, the. mud's everywhere and it's just the dogs. are bringing in mud and then the sun. comes out and it's just heaven on earth. I mean, that's why we're in California, right? You're just like.

So we love those we love those extremes. Um. Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of the. I mean, it's so funny because it's like. it you the reversion back to these. people are cursing the weather. You. know, they're blaming the weather. That's why we need human sacrifice. Yeah. Um yeah, exactly. Well, there's. another one was literally just before I. got here, the legislature got to its. very important work of passing a bill. just now that sets aside $50 million for.

California to sue Trump. Like literally. and they were in a special session. They. that they kept going. They were in a. special session to figure out how to sue. Trump while LA is burning. And meanwhile. Gavin's going out there all the time. being like, oh, well, it would be really. terrible if, you know, if Trump, you. know, withheld disaster aid or heaven. forbid, you know, required that we, you. know, get our [ __ ] together. I'm not. even sure if I'm allowed to say that on. a podcast. Get our things together. Um.

And and then like literally he's like, we're going to sue him for implementing. the agenda he was elected on by a. majority of the American people. MSNBC agenda. It's just a silly rich. white liberal agenda. And I will say. I've thought for 20 years that. California will only be saved by like. Nayib Bukele type figure. Some. authoritarian Latino in a cape is going. to show up and just impose order on the. state. And I'm not I'm not being I am. white. I'm not against whites. I love. whites. My children are white. But that. the fact is they can't do it in that.

state. Gavin Newsom can't do it. The. burden of guilt and self-hatred is too. heavy and you're going to get some. guy from Oaxaca who's smart is going to. be like, we're not putting up with any. of this [ __ ] at all. And no, you. can't camp in LA. No, you can't do meth. in LA. And yes, we are going to have. like full reservoir. I mean, do you know. what I mean? You're going to have like a. Bukele in LA. It would be amazing if we. had that. We I mean, there was there was. sort of an idea that Karen Bass because. she was black and because she came from. the left would be able to do things that. a white guy wouldn't be able to do. That. was part of the the reasoning for her.

She didn't do it. I mean, she's just I. mean, look, she's very People have to. remember she's very radical. I mean, and. I get it. I mean, it's like I was there. I left it, but um you know, she went to. Cuba a bunch of times and. sure. Um you kind of thought, well, maybe that was behind her, but it's not. You know, it really isn't. I mean, this. the thing where like you're like. literally get a warning that the whole. city's going to go up in flames and. you're like, oh, I really got to be in. Ghana for the inauguration of the new. president. I mean, look at where your. head's at. I mean, she she talks about. she loves going to Africa all the time. I love going to Africa, but you're like.

you're like the mayor of like. it's really narcissistic. It's it's. really vapid. So It's not good to have. people kiss your ass your whole life and. tell you I mean, that is just bad. It's. it if it ever when it happens to me, it's bad for me. It's bad for anybody. And if some people are always being. like, you've got black girl magic. Like. after a while, it corrodes No, I'm sure. cuz it's there is no black girl magic. There's no white man magic. It's all. [ __ ] actually. But if if you start. to believe it, having people kiss your. ass, having had many people kiss my ass,

I know corrodes your soul and makes you. into a bad leader. And I really think. that's part of what we're seeing. It's. not just in LA, but like the black girl. magic thing has been bad for a lot of. people. You know You know I mean? Oh, yeah. As the white man magic would be too. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean then she. gets I mean they they so the other thing. was she did cut the fire department. budget, okay? Like she just cut it. I. mean she just it just happened and then. literally. it. I know. So she literally goes up at. a press conference and it was word. salad. I mean it was quite impressive. I. mean she was just sort of like like you.

were like. What did she just say? I mean she's kind. of she goes she goes well that was. you know, it would kind of be like well. that was different because we just. approved this other money and she would. basically just was a non sequitur. I. mean she's describing a totally. different salary negotiation. They cut. 17.5 million from the budget and not. only that but then they had this. internal memo that leaked that said that. they were looking to cut another 48.8. million another 49.1 million from the. fire from the fire department which. which had already was already decimated.

I mean it's a whole story on this. It's. like famous for fires. No, it's crazy. So so then like so they do that and of. course the LA Times and. Politico and I can't remember other. people. They all come out and they go. they go did she cut the budget? You. know, it's complicated. You know, I mean it's amazing. You know, it's it's. complicated which is like yeah, yeah, she did cut she did cut the the budget. but nobody the media was not being. honest with people about what was really. going on until.

the fire chief the lesbians LA County. fire chief to her credit. um. she was being actually she was being. grilled by a local Fox television. reporter who was just doing a great job. actually. I mean just to be hand to the. local TV actually some of the best. reporting still. And only in LA LA has always had. great local television. I don't know. why. No, I think I I agree with you. Yeah. Um it's fallen off in the Bay Area. They. did a little bit better on Oakland when. things get really crazy. But she just.

kept going after her. She just kept. asking her over and over again about the. about the budget cuts and she was kind. of having a hard time. She was just like. yeah, yeah, she did she cut that money. And it's like it didn't matter. Yeah, yeah, it mattered. You know, she had. sent a she had sent a letter. I mean. there was a letter from I think it was. December 4th that the chief the the fire. chief had sent which said specifically. this is going to reduce our ability to. deal with wildfires. She said it twice. Yes, she said it twice in the letter. So. it was a little bit like okay, you're on. the record saying it was going to hurt. your ability. So but then she was like. yes, yes, it did hurt her ability.

um to deal with it. Then she just was. like I think at that point the fire. chief she was just like all right, you. know, like um. the gloves are off. So she goes on CBS. and on CNN and reiterates it and with. very strong language. I was able to get into this piece that. will come out um shortly. I was able to. get into the weeds a little bit on it. but basically there's a hundred fire. trucks that are currently um. in the maintenance shop that are just.

need to be fixed. There's a hundred fire. trucks missing. The person I interviewed was like we. could go buy we could have bought for a. hundred million dollars we could have. bought. um you know, uh. like a hundred or two hundred you know, kind of used fire trucks or whatever. just get fire trucks from wherever. maintain them and just put them in. different points all around the city. You wouldn't necessarily have the staff. to deal with them. but you could then if soon as you get.

that fire warning again on January 1st. or January 2nd, you can just fly in. firefighters from around the country. from around the world. You just be like. look we're just going to bring everybody. in. We don't know what's going to happen. and then they can just go he was this. person was like you know, we could put. like 30 of them at Dodger Stadium. You. know, you could just like put these fire. trucks that are well maintained, you. know, but so she was like said cuz I. didn't quite understand it either cuz. she was like we didn't have the money. for the mechanics and you're like well. why do you like what do you need the. mechanics for? Well, you need the. mechanics to maintain the fire engines. Right. So I mean this is what you know,

it's like when civilization breaks down. it breaks down in like a just a million. small ways, you know, um so you know, is. it is there some DEI part of it? Yeah, there was they were promoting people not. based on merit. Um is there budget cuts? Ab- absolutely. I mean they didn't you. know, and what what goes wrong when you. don't have those budget cuts? Everything. You know, I mean the other. complaint um I've heard, you know, is. just that it's just the the the advanced. thinking. It's just getting people that. can kind of be thinking in advance. That's where their focus is. That's. where their priority is. So the D the. problem with the DEI is that when you're.

just orienting an entire organizational. culture towards racial and sex quotas. rather than towards okay, you know, what. about the Santa Ana winds and the fire. risk and whatever. It's just we all know. that like. it's it's not just time in the day it's. also mind time. It's like what do you. think about when you take a shower? What. do you think about when you put on your. shoes? Like where is your head at? Their. head has been in the clouds around you. know, DEI the larger society ESG climate. homelessness. I mean.

I mean the list goes on and on. But the. the you know, it was on homelessness. We. now know cuz the odd state audit came. out 24 billion dollars on homelessness. since since Gavin took office in 2019. Tucker homelessness in California. increased by 40% under Gavin. For- can. you believe I mean 40 per- so cuz. everyone goes. it's such a curious it like it's such a. curious mystery as to we spent all this. money on homelessness.

and yet it just increased. It's like. well yeah because you spent money. incentivizing and subsidizing. homelessness. You spent all this money. to attract people from all over the. United States. I mean I interview people. in California that are on the streets. and it's like nobody's from California. I mean they come in. the only reason I feel like I have any. understanding what homelessness is is. because of the interviews that you did. several years ago which is the most un-. I never heard of you before I saw these. interviews and you did the and I would. recommend to our listeners to go find. them cuz they're on YouTube.

You did the thing that nobody I've never. seen anybody do it before. Others have. followed since you did it but you just. went and interviewed the homeless and. like what are you doing here? Tell me. your story and they were remarkably. honest. Oh, they're they want to be. They See. the thing is like homeless people. they're always lonely, you know, and so. they they're um. obviously these are people in really bad. way and they're eager to tell their. story. They have a lot to say. They're. not most of them are not dumb. Some of. them were not dumb at all. I was shocked. by it. no. And they do lie like at the. beginning. So I mean you have to um.

the secret to all great interviews as. you know more than anybody is is you. need to have a long time because people. tell the they lie at first and then the. truth comes out. So like you'll. interview people and you'll be like. you're like where are you from, brother? And they'll be like oh, I was raised. here. And then you get like 30 minutes. in the interview they're like all I'm. from Arkansas, you know, I'm from Texas. or whatever. So yeah, I mean um. so yeah, they're from all over they they. came here they come, you know, I the. most famous one I did with it was with. James Church. He he had tattoos on his. face and he was just an incredible. I.

just love that interview so much. I. think it was like it was like an hour. hour and a half with him just holding my. iPhone up to him while he's talking. But. he was the one who was like um. you know, if I'm being honest, you know, they pay people to be homeless here. And. I was like I was like what do you what. do you mean by that? You know, and he's. like well he's like I get 650 bucks a. month, you know, um in cash welfare to. be homeless here plus a couple hundred. bucks more in food stamps. It's a great. deal. And he was like I got Netflix on. my phone. I watch Amazon you know, I. watch Amazon Prime TV on my phone. You.

know, I still electric city from the. from the the the light pole right here. Um that video I will say is very. satisfying. I do think that played a. pretty big role in the voters of San. Francisco voting to get rid of cash. welfare um for homeless people. Make. 2025 the year you check life insurance. off your list and protect your family's. future with Policygenius. It is hard to. find life insurance. It's a hassle. Who. wants to think about it? Policygenius. makes it super easy. And when you do. that you ensure that your loved ones.

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and see how much you could save. But why. did it I know I I've asked you this. before but why did it fall to you to do. that? It's well, it's because well, we know. why. I mean because it's. Cuz you weren't a reporter. You weren't. working for a newspaper or a TV station. No. I mean look it's I for me this is. the golden age of journalism. It is so. much fun. Like I mean cuz like basically. I can go into um every story and you. discover that people aren't really doing. reporting. You know, I I showed up at. the guy I showed up at the house that.

the guy lived in the guy that assaulted. Nancy Pelosi's husband. Yes. Just to. give you a sense of where journalism is. at. And I show up and I'm like I'm ex-. just happy to be there and there's all. these journalists there. It's like a. bunch of like local TV news and like the. local print paper or whatever and I was. like I just kind of was like oh, hey, what's it going on? out in Berkeley, right? Yeah, he's in Berkeley, yeah. Um Black. Lives Matter flag in front of you, you. know, um. uh you know, abandoned school bus um. they were really it was really terrible. environment. But um and I was like oh, I. was like have you so I was like have you. guys already I was kind of like worried.

I was like I got here late. I was like. so you guys already like knocked on all. the doors of the neighbors. And they were just like looked at me and. they were like no, we're like not We're. We're I can't remember one of them. saying he's like, "Oh, we don't want to. be like rude or something or that would. be like inappropriate." I was like I was. like and at that moment I was like, "Oh, god, this is going to be great.". And I just like went and knocked on all. the doors and like get all the. information like, "Oh, yeah, they were. around naked out there and they would be. on drugs all the time and yeah, they. were like all left wing and it was like. black you know, I was like, "Oh, this is. amazing. Like there's no competition.".

Like it's you know, I got on the I got. on the White House briefing just. recently. Um the White House briefing on UAPs. which you and I um are both interested. in on the drones. Um. and it was just like you can kind of go. into these stories you just start. talking to people and you just realize. journalists aren't really they're not. really journalists. They're more like. kind of the people that would run for. like class president or something. They're kind of goody two-shoes type. Ass-kissers, yeah. Yeah, they're. actually very authori- I mean they were. the ones that wanted all the censorship. Of course. So they're not that that old.

picture of journalists is like this kind. of cantankerous and like you know, crabby and they got rid of all those. people. Anti-authoritarian. Anti-authoritarian. Um. yeah, difficult people. Like I'm the son. of one of those. That's Yeah, I grew up. around this. Classic, right. That's like. the greatest I mean there's like and you. realize it's essential to the. functioning of civilization to have a. bunch of disagreeable. people running around asking impertinent. questions. Exactly. So with this one it was like, yeah, so I mean you basically get like. when you just look at the coverage of.

the fires, I mean it was like the the. reporters that are going out and doing. it it's like they're The whole thing is. like, "Oh, we've got to make sure that. the right wing doesn't take advantage of. this situation to push their agenda.". Like literally that's how they think. about it. So they're out there running. cover for the poli- I mean it's amazing, you know, somebody did like a little. meme on it but it's like that thing. where it's like, "Yeah, it used to be. that the reporter would like be holding. the microphone up to the politicians and. being like, 'Answer my questions.'" And. now they're like demanding that the. people defend themselves for their. terrible votes, you know, it's like a.

complete reversal. So true. Well, they're the Praetorian Guard for the. powerful, of course. Yeah. Shoo, but one. of the things I learned from your. interviews with the homeless which I I. just cannot. recommend strongly enough as a primary. source of information, actual. information um is the degree to which. the. narcotics-fueled homelessness. So you. can't really disaggregate homelessness. from drug addiction. No. Of course. I mean it's really. of course, but like No, I know. Well, no, I know. I wrote San Francisco. because it was literally like cuz I knew.

drugs like I you know, I I know drugs. Um you know, I mean I had three friends. from high school that became homeless. addicts. Two are dead. It's like you. know, um I'm you know, I happily avoided. personally all the hard ones, but you. saw your friends like you know, you. leave you a wow. You guys are doing. meth, you know, it's like that's bad, guys. What what town did you go to high school. in? Greeley, Colorado. You know, um. So um you know, my parents are. psychologists. I remember just being. around my my aunt had schizophrenia, you.

know, um I told the story a million. times so I don't want to bore you but. basically it was like it was just kind. of like, "So wait, everyone just thinks. that this is like a housing problem.". Like that's just crazy. So you know, you. sort of needed to I needed to go do all. those interviews. But I mean really the. first homelessness epidemic, the first. time that we're modern homelessness was. in the early '80s. and it was just a it was basically all. it was was a combination of the emptying. the final closure of all the mental. hospitals where they literally literally. dumped people on the streets. Like I.

thought that that was that sounded like. an exaggeration when I first started. They literally were putting you know, schizophrenics and stuff on the streets. And then the crack epidemic. Yeah. Like. that's all it was. It was just those two. things. And then of course then you know, left-wing mayor of San Francisco and. others are like, "Oh, well, we can't. like we can't like require that people. not camp outside. They're poor." The. left um. in reaction to Reagan then took up. homelessness as a as something that they. claimed was caused by Reagan. Like I. mean he'd been in office for like. whatever two or three years and they.

would just make ridiculous claim you. know, the Reagan budget, you know, that's why he's on the street. Yeah. So it really gets used so it. becomes a viewed by the left early on as. a political propaganda tool. I also. blame the comics by the way. I mean and. just I'll name them. Robin Williams, Billy Crystal, Whoopi Goldberg. They did. this whole thing you may remember Comic. Relief where they framed the whole thing. as a prob- as a problem of poverty which. is just you know, it's just it's just. such a disservice to the people on the. street who need an intervention. Right. There's a natural like when for.

addicts there's a there's a natural. progression where you you you know, whether from trauma or just because you. enjoyed getting high, you your addiction. gets in the way of your job and you stop. going to work and you often you know, live at home with your parents or with. friends. You lie, steal and cheat from. them repeatedly. They give you multiple. warnings. They finally kick you out. That's often. the route to homelessness. You end up on. the street. That's the moment where the.

society the parent the family and. friends were not able to impose an. intervention. So. the way it should work is that you end. up you go out camp on the street and the. cop goes, "Hey, you can't camp here. It's illegal to camp here." And they go, "What am I supposed to do?" And they're. like, "Well, we're going to take you to. jail or you you can go to rehab." Like. those are your two choices. Two choices. A natural intervention is imposed in. that situation. What progressives and. Democrats did for 40 years is they just. removed the intervention in the name of.

compassion. The most compassion I think. is to impose the intervention. I mean. the thing that's most common I'll even. find this with like harm reduction. workers. I was just with some harm. reduction workers in in Skid Row and and. one of them was telling me the whole. usual thing, "Oh, you can't make. somebody get clean. They have to hit. their own bottom." Like whatever. And I. was like and they were like, "I used to. run around here, you know, on on meth.". It was a um an Asian-American woman um. who was doing this and I was like I was. like, "Oh, wow. So what did it finally. take you for you to get clean?" She was. like, "Well, I went to prison." Yeah.

You know, it's like, "Well, right. So I. have a really close friend who had who's. lived the same trajectory. I have a. couple friends but a very I have a legit. close friend. who was totally out of control on drugs. and lost kids and all the things that. happen when you're addicted and got. sober in prison and rebuilt a life um a. wonderful life. Yes, but. yeah, no. And they're like the best By. the way, recovering addicts are like the. greatest people. I mean they're the fun-. They're the funniest, most honest. um people. They have an equanimity about.

them. I go to AA meetings when I can, not. because I'm in danger of partying again. Not after 22 years but because I like. the people because they're so honest and. they they're honest about the one thing. no one's ever honest about which is. themselves. It's super easy to be honest. about you. I don't like your sweater, Mike. That's disgusting. Like that's not. hard. You've gained weight. That's not. hard. Yeah. I've gained weight. I'm. wearing an ugly sweater. Those are hard. And you find among those people, the. recovered people like a true honesty. about themselves. It's like.

Right. It's like the greatest church. service there is. Right. Because they're. all born again in an important sense. They've all died in some way. Yeah. No, I So that's the But to deprive people of. that is to encourage them to continue. to use drugs and alcohol is like. I mean don't even I mean whatever. It's. an interview of you, not me but I just. feel like sobriety has to be the goal. not just for the individual but for the. society. I really believe that. So. sobriety is the greatest gift. A, B, use of drugs and alcohol causes mental.

illness which nobody ever says out loud. I've seen it. To some extent experienced it. I know. You can cause severe mental illness by. using drugs and alcohol. Like right? Is. that even controversial? It shouldn't. be. But that's I mean you've done more. on this than I have, much more but. It's sort of coming back a little bit. People talk about meth-induced psychosis. now more but um. yeah, it's uh it's really. psychosis. Oh, yeah, and the weed now it's just so. potent and dangerous and yeah, ugh.

Shoo, but you as a someone who still. lives in California, does anybody do you. ever hear people say that? Like why are. we paying people to use drugs? Like. should it surprise us that things are. falling apart? I mean I do think I do. think that the the conversation has. changed a bit. Um I'll take some credit. for it with San Francisco and the videos. in particular. Um. But yeah, it's just still that thing. where it's like they kind of go, "But. yeah, but there's a black woman running. for mayor." And it just it's like the. singularity it's like what I always say. that it's like this just it's just. hovering over people. The race thing.

Yeah, it's really it's really about race. in a in a in a really important sense. Um. and then the guilt. are all immigrants from Central America. We can't do anything about it. Right. No, sanctuary state, sanctuary city. That's what part of what they're going. to sue on. Um. Yeah, I mean I think that it's just um. yeah, it's a big trap. I mean I think. that it's funny because. you know, we're a guilt culture and so. you know, like you know, Japan's a shame. culture and you know, guilt is this um. incredibly important part of the.

Christian tradition. Yes. Well, you stop believing in. original sin and you stop believing in. Christianity. You still apparently. there's still this deep desire to feel. that guilt and to sort of. show it as well. In other words, there's. a social part of it. People wanted to. see in that focus they wanted other. people to see in that focus group that. they they felt guilty. You know, it was. very important to them to show that. is so in you know, traditional. Christianity. other um religions. you know, the guilty person a repents,

atones. dons ashes, wears sackcloth and covers. himself in ashes as a way of saying, you. know, I am worthy of the degradation. Yes. But we've kind of transferred that. It's almost like the homeless are in. sackcloth and ashes. Do you know what I. mean? Like I live in the Palisades. I. produce music videos. I'm doing pretty. well but I still feel guilt. So but like. seeing somebody like you know, writhing. on the sidewalk, I'm like displacing my. atonement on. really interesting. Yeah. He's Well, they then And talk about it that way.

Even when you talk to the activist that. justify it, they're like, well, that's a. you know, that those people are are. suffering because of capitalism and. Exactly. and you know, slavery and But the whole. point of Christianity is no, no, no, you. suffer. You. Right. Like confess your. sin. You don't like put it off on some. junkie. Right. Well, it's the part of it. that's just really satanic. I mean, not. to be theological about it, but it's. just a complete reversal of the. traditional Christian process. It's just. yeah, it's exactly. It's making other. people.

Um atone for your sins. Yeah, it's it's. crazy. It's so bad and they're sort of on. display. You know, it's the it's the. it's really if you kind of read it. I. mean, it's like it's like a it's like. they they they want to they want it to. be on display. They want to sort of show. it and that's why they insist that they. not be arrested or or or mandated. treatment. Um it's wild. It is like her. you know, like you go to Skid Row and. it's still like a Hieronymus Bosch. You know, it's just like you just can't.

you still can't believe it. I mean, you. still can't believe there's a person. lying there. um you know, sweating profusely passed. out. You can't tell if they're alive or. dead. You don't know like do I do an. intervention? And it's just it's it's. really breaking down. These are human. beings. I don't That's and I'm not a. particularly compassionate or kind. person. I'm kind of a dick actually, but. even I like whenever I see that, I feel. such deep sadness for the person. It's. like heartbreaking. Like of course. Don't allow If that was my child, would. I allow it? Not for one second. I would.

take that child and chain him to the. [ __ ] radiator until he got better. I. would not allow that. My child. It's a. healthy response by the way. Absolutely, it is. Absolutely is. Those are the. people that end up getting off the. street. You you raise the bottom instead. of lowering the bottom. If you're still. using Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile, obviously our condolences, but you're. going to want to hear this. Our cell phone company, PureTalk, gives. us the exact same service you're. currently getting from those big. companies, but for half the cost. Not a. joke.

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going to puretalk.com/tucker. You'll save an additional 50% off your. first month PureTalk, America's wireless. company. God, we're so far afield from. the topic. Okay, so there are in LA. County 78 How many fire departments? Well, there's 88 cities and there's 29. fire departments in counting the county. No, no, no, that's fine. Um but yeah, so. like literally like once the fire. starts, the I didn't even understand. this until I started investigating it. The county fire chief has to call all. these cities and be like, hey, can you. send a couple of the trucks? We're.

putting together a strike team. You. know, can you send some engines or. whatever? And they have to call around. and then they're like, okay, we're all. going to meet meanwhile the fire's like. blazing away. And they're like, okay, well, we're all going to meet, you know, wherever, you know, Sepulveda or. whatever the streets are in in LA. Um. you know, we'll meet in this place and. we'll get together and we'll sync the. radios and we'll develop a plan. I mean, this is all happening like while the. city's burning. I mean, it's ins it's. madness, right? The other thing is that. it's I mean, there's like So, they. didn't like have any preparation for.

this. There's nothing, man. I mean, there might have been something that I. have that we obviously if there was, it. wasn't enough. I mean, it's a little bit. like when they go. when the people that are like that when. the nihilists are defending what. happened, they're like, well, there was. nothing else we could have done or we. did everything we could have. It's like, well, no, obviously you didn't. Like it. doesn't matter. what it is. It obviously was There's. only one right answer, which is that you. didn't do enough. You know, the the. the fatalism. you know, it's a um.

it's a way to disavow responsibility on. the one hand. Again, I think it. expresses that nihilism, but I think. it's like people just have been out of. practice, but you have to this is part. of the journalism, too. You know, it's. that you kind of it has to be like, no, no, we're we're not accepting that as an. answer. Like you they the right attitude. for the journalist is to basically be no. excuses. Of course. for like I mean, maybe the journalists. are being too much of a hard ass and too. much of a dick about it and maybe they. need to be a little bit more whatever. That's fine. That's their role. It's.

like your role is to be the prosecutor. against the the on the case of the. failure. Your role is to be the. investigator. defender. Yeah, the public the public defender or. the prosecutor or the you know, but your point is to be like, oh, no, that that can't be right. So, because. when they go, well, we ran out of water. Well, why did you run out of water? Well, there wasn't enough water. No, well, why wasn't it? Well, cuz actually. it turned out one of the reservoirs. didn't have any water. Isn't it your job. to make sure there's enough water? You. know, I mean, and then this is what they. do when they go after Trump and stuff is. that like cuz Trump will often be like. directionally correct.

Right. oh, but Trump was referring to the wrong. kind of reservoir. You know, the other. reservoirs were full. It's like, okay, fine, but the reservoir right next to. the Pacific Palisades was empty. So, you. know, his basic the basic intuition, which is I think a I often talk about. the importance of you know, like if. you're defending civilization, it's a. physical thing, right? So, it's I'm. always thinking to myself as like. like there's a physicalism in my world. view, which is like, okay, that's a. that's a person.

It's a body. You you need to they need. to they're somewhere they shouldn't be. They need to be somewhere else. So, we. can have a debate about how to move them. somewhere else. That's totally. reasonable debate to have, but they. can't be there. They can't be there. because they're creating fires, they're. breaking the law, they're hurting. themselves and others. Similarly, there's there wasn't water there. There. needed to be more water. And if you go, okay, well, we actually let's say let's. say that they had. all the reservoirs, the the potable. water reservoirs. Let's say they had all. been full and they still ran out of. water. Well, then there was some other.

problem you needed to solve. You maybe. needed more reservoirs or maybe you. needed you you needed the preparation. there. So, you just have to have. I mean, you know, the Bukele type that. we that you'd want to see or somebody. You just have to say something that's. just like literally you can't no excuses. all the way down the line. I feel like you're on something super. important. If you could flesh it out. You say there's a physicalism to your. world view. Yeah. Contrast that with the world view. currently in power. Oh, well, this is. yeah, this is exactly. It's like. it's this First of all, it's like I. mean, it's just so symbolic. It's the.

city of angels, you know? So, it's like. we're up here and you want it like the. wealthier you get in LA and like it's. with some exceptions like Venice Beach, but mostly you're you're getting up. higher. You're moving up up up up up. Um. you're trying to get away to the cliffs. of Malibu. Yeah, and you end up in the heavens and. people talk about I live in a little. tree house. I mean, I get it. I love it. It's like I live in the Beverly Hills. I'm not like, you know, but it's like. I'm you know, I'm above all that. I'm. away from all that. Like I'm connected. to nature up here, but also, you know, away from all the you know, the plebs.

And so, you actually I think they do. it's that whole thing we talk talk about. people being in a bubble, you know, I. mean, it's like the most bubbly place in. the world except for that it's not and. you're in a massive fire zone that must. be constantly managed. There's. consequences of living in these. spectacular places. But you've got. people that are it's there it's the the. whole industry is a fantasy industry. I. mean, it's just exists to construct a. fantasy reality. And yeah, you would hope that that. people would be able to.

compartmentalize. Yeah, my day job is. constructing fantasies that we charge. you know, 20 dollars to stream, but I. know that when I go home that like all. the brush has to be cleared around my. house and I have to vote for candidates. that are physicalists. I mean, look at Physicalists. Yeah, I. mean, I don't I mean, I don't know if. that's the right word. I just There's. something there though, right? It's They're fantasists. I mean, they're. the people. I mean, I I don't want to. use the word idealist cuz there's too. many other connotations to it, but.

there's just it's just the difference. between being your head's your head's up. in the clouds and also and then as. opposed to just being really. you need the firefighter view of the. world. You need the cop view of the. world. Frankly, you need the homeless. guys view. The homeless people. like live in a I mean, they're high a. lot, so they're switching in and out, but they have to get their physical. needs met. You know, there's just a yeah, so it's. um When we first had kids, I remember my. wife being and I had much lower. standards, but insisting on the house. being clean and orderly. Mhm. And I.

remember saying like it doesn't you. know, the point of having kids is to. instill values in them. She was, yeah, but one of the values is like order and. cleanliness and like they will feel. like things are out of control if the. house isn't clean and orderly. And she's. really insistent on that and we've lived. that way our whole lives and. I. it it's a version of what you're saying. It's like you can tell your kids about. honesty and decency and compassion and. high achievement or whatever, but like. someone has to make the bed and vacuum.

the floor and if there's dog [ __ ] in the. kitchen, like it has to be cleaned up. Like that's she understood that and has. imposed it to great effect, I would say. I'm sure. No, I think that's right. And. also like parent we all I did it, too. So, I'm not like judging. But like we. talk too much to the kids. Talk talk. talk talk talk talk talk. And you see. like new parents doing that talking to. their kid and the kid's like, what? It's. like the peanuts is right. Like the. whole what they hear is the wah wah wah. wah. As opposed to like, could you could you. set the table? You know? Um could you you know, like the kids.

like I mean, we the kids like to have a. job. They want to have a chore. Chores. are super like kids love that. You know, and. so you you know, and you're teaching the. kids to clean the classroom every. morning. I mean, the problem is the. specialization and the wealth. They sort. of get disconnected from it. Do you know what I mean though? That's. why I'm laughing. And dogs, too. People. do it with their dogs. You ever see. people with like the like you know, whatever. I live in the Beverly Hills. It's like, you know, older ladies and. their dogs and the you know, they're. just like sitting there blah blah blah. blah blah. The dogs It's like, "Well,

you're not holding the leash tight. enough, lady.". You know? You rewarded the dog when he did. something bad. You should have rewarded. it when it came to you. Anyway, um. so all these things break down. All. these norms. and true. You just said you're a. physicalist. I I want that to become a. I want intercom usage cuz I think it's. that is like really really important. I think it cuz it's like a People say. things like practical, which is good, and pragmatic, but some pragmatic guy. started to mean things like making.

shitty political compromises. Do you. know what I mean? Or it's an American linguistic tradition. or philosophical tradition. But yeah, physicalist, it's like yeah, somebody's. got to clean up all the you know, if you. have all the homeless people, you're. going to have to spend a millions of. dollars on cleaning up crap right all. the time. And you know, the the homeless, one of. the things you probably have observed is. that I think it's a like probably a. compensating mechanism, but they're just. they're obsessed with collecting tons. and tons of garbage, basically. So they'll you know, you'll clean up. these homeless encampments and you'll be.

like, "Oh, wow. Like there's. not minimalists. No. No, they're not. living the Zen lifestyle. Bang & Olufsen life. It's like. No, no, it's very cluttered, you know? And so they're probably over But so. yeah, I mean, they need You need to We. need to reimpose some limits. You know, there's a I'm also I just. became really obsessed with the scholar. I just discovered who wrote a trilogy on. nationalism named Lia Greenfield. I. highly recommend her books. Her first. book is called Nationalism, second book. is called Spirit of Capitalism, and the.

third book is called Mind, Madness, and. Modernity. And these books are just incredible. But. basically. Lia, l e a. It's actually l i a h and then. Greenfield. Um Common spelling. Yeah. l i a h l i a. h Yeah, she's a Russian I think she's a. Russian Jew who went to Israel, lived in. Israel for a long time, and then her and. then her and then her mentor was Edward. Shils, the sociologist. Um so she's a sociologist, but the. nationalism book is beautiful. I mean,

it's like the the the famous book on. nationalism is got by is called. Imaginary Communities by Benedict. Anderson, and it's he's a Marxist, and. so it's all the whole thing is like him. trying to explain how nationalism, why. it's so powerful when Marx thought it. should wither away. And but she describes na- So she defines. nationalism The picture that people have. of nationalism is completely wrong. She. describes nationalism as a sovereign. community of fundamentally equal. individuals who have a shared identity.

And so she's like, "Nationalism is. fundamentally democratic." Now, you. might have some systems that are. nationalist, but they don't have proper. democracy, but really the basic idea is. that egalitarian idea that we're. Americans, we live here, we have the. same solidarity. I've also was. um I've also become I'll come back to. the Greenfield, but I've also been. obsessed with Hannah Arendt, who I'd. never read until recently, and she. think you're allowed to read her. anymore. I know. Well, she was canceled. I know, I discovered she was canceled. I love Hannah Arendt, so I but I didn't.

realize, just like Freud, who was also a. huge figure in my childhood. Everyone. talked about Freud, alluded to Freud. Um. and then he just kind of disappeared one. day, and Hannah Arendt, same thing. Oh, yeah, totally canceled, but it's. brilliant. Yeah. She's too honest. Well, yeah, yeah, she was very Well, it's it's really in um there's I read. her two books. One is the On. Totalitarianism book, and the other one. is Eichmann in Jerusalem. Eichmann in. Jerusalem is it's rough cuz she. describes how the Jewish councils. participated with the Nazis. I mean, that was what was really controversial.

Um But what what I what really blew me. away from reading um Hannah Arendt, cuz. I was coming to the nationalism. conversation. I mean, it's I should I. self-confession cuz I should have been. reading nationalism starting in 2016, but um. but you know, I finally was reading on. it, and it was like she was like, "Nationalism is a barrier to. totalitarianism because totalitarianism. is is attempting to destroy all. relationships between people other than. the relationship with the state.". Exactly. And so so religion, nationalism, you know, um you know, the.

classic de Tocqueville associative ties, you know, all of that is a threat to. totalitarianism. Yeah. And um so that. would really struck me. And and Lia. Greenfield kind of she has a I just. interviewed her, so she has like a just. difference of opinion with um. with um. um Arendt on this issue, but but. nonetheless, I was just struck by how. I don't know what the right I I'm just. like Like for me, like nationalism, cuz. I come from the left, you know, from the. radical left, and we would we would code.

our socialist yearnings as the public. interest. Yes, of course. You know, Ralph Nader. kind of took all of the Chomskyan. left-wing views of the early '60s and. packaged them for moderate He kind of. made it all seem very reasonable, you. know, um and the environmentalists did. the same thing. So So the brilliance of. the left in general, but the radical. left in particular, was just. cross-dressing as mainstream issues. So. um so so it became So really what is a.

socialist movement became a consumer. rights public interest. The women's. rights movement. Yep. And you get these really radical. ideologies. I mean, I'm just obsessed. with this um the ways in which like So. Marxism. Look back on it, I was like, "Wow, I. can't believe the things I believed in.". Marxism has this idea that the. capitalists, like what's distinct about. them, is that they're just super greedy. and they're thieves and that they're. stealing from their workers. And there's. really no difference between the.

entrepreneur, the capitalist. entrepreneur like Elon Musk or Thomas. Edison or Henry Ford, and their workers. They're just meaner and they steal from. them. And it's like it's just an. amazingly audacious lie because whenever. you go and actually study an. entrepreneur, what's incredible is that it's not just. that they are doing It's not like. they're the best at what they're doing. They're the best at like 12 different. things. Exactly. You may remember when when Trump and um. Elon were beginning their bromance, um. Trump goes he goes, "You know, I asked. Elon. I was like I was like, 'What is it.

you're really good at?'" You know, you. could see it was like probably a. question that Trump is used to asking. people that he interviews for a job or. something. And he goes, "Turned out it. was a lot of different things.". You know? And it's like, "Well, yeah, like I mean, cuz of course like with Thomas Edison, people go, "Oh, he invented the light. bulb." He didn't invent the light bulb. Um he improved it. He invented a viable. economic model for electricity. production. I mean, he invented the. electrical grid. He found the customers. I mean, one of the things that that. impresses me so much with with Elon is. like I'll see him You'll see him out.

there and he'll be selling. You know, which is a kind of I mean, it's selling is sort of the worst part. of our jobs in some ways. I mean, you. can do it with pleasure and you can do. it with verve and stuff, but but you. know, you're kind of like and I I do it. I mean, I'm always like, "Subscribe. now." You know? And and you're like, "You have to do it." Like it's part of. the work, but I'm always like, "Wow, Elon is still He's the richest man in. the world. He's probably He may be the. greatest innovator in American history, certainly top three.". Um and he's still out there having to. hawk his products. And but and he does. it great. He's an amazing job of it. He.

like he One of the innovations was, you. know, he just be become the biggest user. of Twitter rather than buying paid ads. But so this gigantic lie from Marx, which is that the the First of all, the. entrepreneur, the capitalist is is just. a meaner version of the worker as. opposed to this you know, this. Schumpeterian genius. Um. And Schumpeter comes along, and then his. The other thing The big The big lie and. then Schumpeter points it out is that. the owner of the company and the workers. have the same fundamental interest. In.

other words, Elon Musk's employees and. Elon have the same interest. They want. to expand their markets. They want to. expand their products. Um so to put them. opposed is just so. it's just it's so dishonest, and it's so. reminiscent of of what. you can say feminism or radical. feminism, but this idea that the. interests of women are opposed by men. That the that women and men have. different interests. And of course, you. trace it back, it all goes it all goes. back to Simone de Beauvoir, who's a.

Marxist writing in the postwar period. I. guess it was was like the '40s her book. came out, The Second Sex. But she's just. taking this totally idiotic Marxist. framework and and applying it to women. and men. lie? Cuz I mean, it ignores the very. obvious symbiosis. It's just It's It's. not possible for them to exist apart, and it's not possible to continue the. species. It's like so dumb that they. they need each other, that actually. power is exerted in very subtle but. powerful ways within a relationship. between a man and a woman that are not.

at all described or even acknowledged, right? It's the basis of life itself. Of course. So it is like really you trace back like. the emergence of nihilism. It really is. in Marxism, it's in feminism, and then. they successfully cross-dressed for for. decades, and they get so good at it. This is the famous long march through. Yes. institutions or what they call. cultural Marxism. Um But they basically. dressed themselves up as I mean, civil. you know, basically civil rights. I. mean, cuz once you get equal rights, the.

work is done. Same thing with gays and. lesbians. But then the radical left. activists then go and grab all those. trappings cuz we started the. conversation um This may seem like a. digression, but it's important, I think, for normies and everybody to understand. that I mean, this it dawned It took a. long time for me to get it, but it was. like, "Oh, right." Like the people that. call themselves environmentalists are. actually just radical leftists, slightly. different from Marx because they're. actually um into Malthus, this totally. dystopian anti-human view.

But the genius of the left is that they. are so successful at masking their real. agenda behind something else. You know, we just want equality for people of. color. We just want to create equal. opportunity for migrants. No, their. agenda is the destruction of. civilization. And you see I On the environmental. working in LA. Well, it is it is working and I always. thought um on the environmental movement. there was a woman called Julia Butterfly. Hill who spent more than a year in a. redwood.

And. you know, I always thought, you know, if. you were sincere about environmentalism. like she would be here like whatever. happened to her nobody knows. And that was. to your point about physicalism like I. like redwoods and like if there's a. reason to cut them down okay, but like. maybe don't because they're just so. beautiful. That's my personal view. I. always have felt that way. So like here was someone who was she. saved a tree that's got to be the. highest level of what they claim they're. trying to do, but they totally ignored. her. They don't give a [ __ ] about her at. all. She died in the tree. Probably.

better for them. What they really wanted. to do was disconnect people from nature. It was the opposite. Right. So why is it that every single person I. know who really spends a lot of time. outdoors who's into. you know, the sporting life or whatever. lives in a rural area. Man, their goals are the opposite of those of. the Environmental Defense Fund and the. Sierra Club. Right. Do you know what I. mean? Well, and also and also I think the. physicalist distinction works on that as. well. I mean here you have.

I did an interview with a terrific this. this scientist I mentioned and he's just. like, you know, when you're like dealing. with fires the main event is what is. happening on the ground. And they're and. the climate extremists are out there. basically saying, "No, no, no, ignore. ignore this whole physical reality. We. just need to reorganize the entire. global economy.". Exactly. Exactly. Like we can't stop these fires. Let. Malibu burn, but give us control over. the the the driver of the economy. I. mean it's such madness. Exactly. And.

it's the opposite and they don't care. I. mean what what's the pollution generated. by these fires? Oh, it's it's so much I. mean it's I can't I don't know the. numbers off the top of my head, but it's. massive. Now I mean I will say. right? Well, yeah, I mean oh my gosh the air in. LA now I mean it is my daughter's at in. college there. I'm worried about her. I. mean it is absolutely toxic air. I mean. of course it is, you know, and you have. a lot of electric cars and you have a. lot of batteries going up. We don't know. what that stuff is putting out in terms. of particulate matter. So no, it's.

awful. I mean you know, ostensibly you'll get. you know, tree growth and the carbon. will be you know, reabsorbed and those. trees will be reabsorbed, but yeah, no, I mean it is. about carbon. I mean like poison in the. air and water. Oh, for sure. I mean all. the thing of all the all the all the. houses with all the plastic and. electronics burning. It's terrible. No, for sure. I mean yeah, we a chance. to get regrounded I think a chance to I. mean, you know, it is also an. interesting moment, right? Because. Hollywood it's just producing garbage. It is just it is incredible how bad the.

cultural production is. Just at a. straight like you know, if you're. someone that just loves pop culture like. you just love Steven Spielberg. We're. not getting that level of quality. I. mean we tried to watch something on. Netflix. It's just it's just awful and. it's because they're all trying to fit. it in artistry and creativity is. transgressive. It's supposed to be. it's supposed to be break I mean that's. actually where you want your I want my. transgression in my art not in my. civilization. I want a really boring.

civilization and really transgressive. art, but it's become the opposite. The. art has become boring and conformist and. authoritarian and the civilization has. gotten completely transgressive. So. people are not where they need to be. The laws are not being enforced. So I. mean part of you go God I do hope it is. a wake up call in it. It was 5 years ago. this month that people started to drop. dead in the central Chinese city of. Wuhan. 5 years since the beginning of. COVID. Tens of millions dead. Societies.

reordered completely. Economies. destroyed. And yet for some reason we. still don't know answers to the most. basic questions. Where did this virus. come from? How did it get here? Why did. the government tell us to do things they. knew wouldn't work? None of those. questions have been adequately answered. and one man knows those answers. His. name is Dr. Tony Fauci. Until now nobody has really. pressed. And now a documentary filmmaker. called Jenner First is out with a new. film explaining exactly what happened.

The film is called Thank You, Dr. Fauci. Jenner First spent years trying to get. answers and in that time as he awaited. Dr. Fauci's response he went through. tens of thousands of pages of documents. and pieced together the story which is. shocking. We are proud to host that. documentary here on TCN from December. 20th to January 19th. You will see it. exclusively here on TCN. Again, it's. called Thank You, Dr. Fauci. And it's. worth it.

So what um speaking of the laws not. being enforced, tell us what you know. about looting. Oh, I mean it's that's kind of the. standard that's the that's like the norm. in Los Angeles, isn't it? I mean. um Even when there's not a fire burning. No, of course. It's terrible. I mean you. know, have you saw that they just. arrested they I guess they had a couple. of guys. they found a couple of guys looting. Kamala's house and then they let them.

go. Of course. Of course. They got the guy. they found the guy that set one of the. fires the homeless guy that set one of. the fires and they let him go. I mean it is. uh. It's amazing. I mean the comedians like. all their best materials just you know, in the news already. So. they let your your stealing from people. in the middle of a of a profound. disaster? The city's burning down and. you're stealing people are dying and. you're stealing. Aren't you you're like a true villain I. think. Oh, yeah, for sure. And then and then.

they let them go and then that became. widely publicized. Well, guess what? You. know, this is the thing that people have. to understand. You know, criminals you. know, they read the news. Like criminals. are very online. It's not like criminals. don't know what's going on. I mean we. have these amazing there's these amazing. like I think it was like phone calls. between people in the Oakland jails and. their friends and they're like basically. Auntie Pam the name of the DA they're. like the Auntie Pam's going to make sure. we you know, get off. You know, they all. know where the the laws are not being.

enforced. to follow? Yeah. They're rational actors. You know, the irrational ones are the. rest of us the ones trying to you know, live there. So if you're Gavin Newsom or. Karen Bass like you're all in on the. climate change explanation, right? That's that's all you got at this point. they did I think they are backing off a. little bit from it. I think that they're in a they're a. little trapped, which is great, which is. that on the one hand they they they. can't accept responsibility because they.

know that if they accept responsibility. then it's just then then their their. political futures are doomed. On the other hand by not accepting. responsibility and passing the buck that. also becomes obvious to people. So you. know, they should all go. I mean. remember like you know, New Orleans like. that mayor was out of there. I mean like. Ray Nagin. Yeah. He was there for that. Yeah. So. that should be what happens. But New Orleans has. that just accelerated the decline of the. city. I mean it's. I was there for Katrina. I covered that.

and I thought at the time 20. 20 or I guess it was 20 years ago. incredibly. 2005. Mhm. I thought well, you know, it's obviously tragic, but Bush is. sending over a billion dollars to. rebuild it. I'm sure the city will be. better and it's been much worse ever. since. Uh-huh. Oof. That's depressing. But LA. is not New Orleans. It's our second. biggest city. It's the in a lot of ways. the greatest city we've ever built and. in my opinion and like so what happens. to it now? No. Well, there's no vision for it at all, you know, and and we don't have anybody. visionary in there. You know, and they.

did I mean I think we had this guy Rick. Caruso as you were mentioning who ran. for mayor. I mean they someone found you. know, there is a video of him calling. for increasing the fire department. budget. I'm kind of like. that what else do you need to know at. this point? Can that overcome the. I do think that the woke trance was. broken. I mean Trump. I do for sure. And look at that. I mean. look at the catastrophe that the news. media's in and the success that people. like you and I are having and Joe Rogan. being the most influential.

he's where. somebody was observing he's where Mark. Zuckerberg goes to confess his sins. So it's a different world. I do have. some hope for it. I mean the the thing. about the United States that's so. different from Europe is just that. literally they I find I'm becoming like. an old man cuz I'm talking about how. great the founding fathers were, but but. it's like literally they created this. incredible system that if you have free. speech if you can if you if you can. protect your free speech, which we've. I think succeeded in doing. You bake it.

in. You remind people of its importance. You then are I think going to be able to. self correct in ways that places that. allow higher levels of censorship are. simply not going to be able to do. I mean just look at this impact that. Elon is having right now. It's. incredible. I was on some social media. chat group and somebody was like, "How. come we're all talking about the British. grooming gangs?" It's like cuz Elon. decided that that was an issue. The AFD in Germany may end up you know, be I mean I think they're they're going. to come in at least second in the.

elections next month cuz Elon has. mainstreamed them. So I that gives me a lot of hope. You've. got a platform now that is still just. the I mean we always knew that the media. had that agenda setting power. Yes. Um. but it it's amazing to sort of see it so. dramatically. Only you can really see it. it when it shifts from the mainstream. news media. We were we were writing last. summer about how. the sovereign in the United States. meaning like the true power center in.

the United States was the news media. Um. that is now cuz in my view clearly. shifted to to X. It's just I think you. said something recently. I thought I. think I saw a clip of you saying the. same thing. I mean it's just clear like. that is where. It dominates everything. It's just. everything, you know, and like Blue Sky. gave it a. they gave it a shot, but nobody can go. on there. It's too mad. It's too insane. So, I think it could be very, very. positive. You know, I always compare X. to. you know, it's like when the printing. press was first shows up in the end of. the 15th century for like about 100.

years, the Catholic Church is like, "The. printing press is great. You know, we. can print Bibles and give them out to. all the priests. It's very cheap." The. Catholic Church loved the printing. press. And then Martin Luther. got a hold of the printing press and it. was just for the next, you know, five. centuries was game over. I mean, the best history of the printing press, she goes back, I think it's a Oxford uh. history, she goes back and just looks at. its impact and she comes back and she's. just like, you know, after years of. study or whatever and she's like, "Oh,

we knew it was a big deal, but it's a. much bigger deal than we thought. It's. not just the Protestant Reformation. It. is that, it's also the scientific. revolution, it's the Industrial. Revolution, it's nationalism, and it's. democracy." I mean, so you get a huge. epochal change with this shift of. communications technologies. And social. media, we knew it, I mean, we you know, Martin Gurri famously wrote this book. Revolt of the Public. about the game-changing aspects of. social media just on the Arab Spring, you know, which is now 14 years ago, but.

in some senses it really just didn't get. its power until Elon came in, bought it, and held strong against people calling. him a racist anti-Semite for 2 years. I. mean, it was just crazy. The It was like. 2 years of the media just making him out. to be the devil incarnate and he held. strong and it he ended up breaking the. news media. I mean, they're just not. getting the traffic. done. They're It's over. It's over. So, where does it I mean, so if. have happened to a worse group of. people. They I spent my whole life in.

money on them. I can tell you that's. absolutely true and they're. you know, they're terrified. I was I was. watching John Carl, who I on CBS, who. I've known, someone just sent me a clip. this morning. John Carl, I've known him. for over 30 years, nice guy, you know, reasonable. And um and then Trump comes, the. business starts to collapse and he. realizes, I'm speaking for him, but he. realizes, "Oh, [ __ ] You know, I'm a. middle-aged white guy. I better go. along." And he becomes just this. cheerleader for every stupid woke idea. ever. It was You feel sorry for him.

He's a nice guy, actually, and not a. stupid guy. Someone just sent me a clip of John Carl. like basically defending Trump. Wow. And. and it's just like. Wow. I'm again, I'm not a I'm not a The. weather The The wind moved. The wind moved. Then you realize that. most people just kind of. you know, they they're easy to easy to. control. You just Yeah. tell them what the program is and they. go along with it. Well, yeah. It's Kent Brockman. No, you're totally right. I welcome our. new alien overlords. You know what I mean? They're the first.

They're the first ones to shift. No, you're right. Right? Yeah, cuz they're covering the news. Like they know They They're the first. ones to know when the winds are coming. Principle plays no role. Most people. just kind of go along with what they. think the marching orders are. It really reveals, doesn't it? The herd. animals. So, Yeah, did I say CBS? I think it's at. ABC. Whatever, they're all the same and. they're all going away. Yeah. But if. you're true entrenched power, which does. exist, particularly in the intel. agencies, I mean, that's where it really. resides as far as I can tell. Um. I don't know. It's like pretty threat.

You've just lost There's been a massive. movement in power from the news media, which you control. That's a fact, I. would say. In effect, control News media. is controlled by the intel agencies, fact. To something you can't control. So, that's a huge loss of power for you. So, like how can you let this continue? Well, yeah. I mean, how. can they stop it though? I mean, the. know. I'm just feeling a little paranoid. right now. No, no, I am, too. too much freedom? No, I know. No, I totally do, too. You're like, when's the when's the penny going to. drop, right? of. Um.

Well, yeah, and I also kind of go, "Are. they really going to disclose all the. stuff that they have?" I mean, we were. going down We just did a Actually, I. don't know if we published it yet, but. we were just going down the list of all. the all the files that we want. Cuz you. know, people are like, "Oh, can we have. the Twitter files for the government?". You're like, "Yes." Um So, what I mean, there's so much in there, right? There's. the Russia gate, you know, the Russia. collusion hoax, um COVID origins, COVID. vaccines, um Hunter Biden laptop, Yeah. um I mean, I'm assuming there's. just a bunch of stuff on Russia-Ukraine. that's there. I mean, remember cuz they. keep leaking they'd go They'd go,

"There's no biolabs in Ukraine." They'd. be like, "Well, there were some we were. doing some help with the bio.". only are there biolabs in Ukraine, there. are a lot of biolabs in Ukraine, which. are working on on biological weapons. That's what they're not there for Right. livestock vaccines, sorry. Um and. you know, the thing that people don't in. this country understand is that the. Ukrainian military is selling about half. of the arms they get from the United. States into international black markets. and they're winding up in some cases. with the drug cartels Oh. in Latin. America. That's a fact. Okay, it's a. fact.

And you can you can buy them. And I. spoke to someone who did buy some, actually. So, I know I know this is a. fact. And they're bragging about it. So, they're selling conventional weapons, including weapon systems that are very. dangerous and very destabilizing that. would make commercial air travel. impossible, for example. Right. And so, what are they going to doing with the. pathogens in those biolabs? And does the. Biden administration have. a manifest? Do they know exactly what's. in those labs? And will they turn it. over to the Trump administration so we. can keep track of these things? And the. answer is no, actually. The answer's no,

I know this. So, that's like the scariest thing that's. ever happened. And And so, like what you know, like. I think the Ukraine war has the. potential to destabilize the world more. than anything that's happened in my. lifetime just because of the scale of. the weapon systems and biological agents. uh involved in the most corrupt country. in the West, which is Ukraine. I'm not. attacking Ukraine. I feel sorry for. Ukraine, but. what the hell? Yeah. And so, we could.

use some just We could use a That's why. I'm saying this right now cuz I hope. this is widely disseminated cuz I think. it's like the scariest thing I've heard. in a long, long time. Mhm. That is scary. You but it's all flowered in secrecy. That's the point. Yeah. The only reason this stuff has. happened, like this end of the world. stuff has happened, is because there's. no disclosure at all. Everything is. Right. Oh, it's so much pent-up stuff. So much. we're supposed Yeah, we have the JFK. files, the UFO files, UAP files, I'm. supposed to say. Yeah, there's so much there.

about the UAP thing. Now, we're so far. afield, but I do think it's all. connected. No, it is all connected. though. It's like none of this stuff. happens except in secrecy. And this I said, "Let's stop playing. like you've been I've been talking to. these people for years now.". And the answer was the public is not. ready for. this information because. it's to you know, it's just too It's too. much. And what What's your view of that? I. someone who's pushing disclosure, by the. way. This is not I know. I don't know. Yeah, I'm worried that it's bad news.

Well, that's the point. It's bad news. Yeah, I'm worried it's bad. Really bad news. Yeah. Do you think that's true? Well, I. don't know. not even saying it cuz I don't know if. it's true and it is bad. It's super bad. I mean, it seems like the dom It seems. like the dominant two theories are now. that it's non-human intelligence or that. we or our adversaries have mastered. anti-gravity technology. Um. The other scenarios of, you know, some. kind of new plasma or. you know, it just kind of it it the.

phenomena doesn't seem to be showing up. in that way. core idea seems to be that it's that. there is non-human intelligence, whether. all these manifestations of it are that. or whether they're government programs. or Chinese or whatever. It's probably. a pastiche of all of them, but. the core idea seems to be that there is. non-human intelligence, which is. possible, and that it's been in. interaction with the US government for. quite some time and that it plays a role. in And what role is it playing? I mean, Well, there are all these things that I. I don't know if what is true or what's.

not true. Do you think any of that is. true? I know you've done work on this. Yeah, I mean, you know, and I it's hard. I mean, um. you know, they I covered the New Jersey. drone situation. I went to Jersey and. interviewed a bunch of people. I mean, the weirdest For me, the weirdest moment. is where you have. John Kirby, the Defense Department. spokesperson, and Mayorkas basically on. the same day or at the same 48 hours. just um when they were asked about it, they just came out affirmatively and. they were like, "Well, we're definitely. not getting any drones over the military. bases or other sensitive sites." And.

you're like, I was like, "Why would you. lie about that?" I couldn't I couldn't. because of course, you know, all else. being equal, I think that they don't. people don't want to lie. Politicians. don't want to lie cuz it just creates. more work or hassle for them. life, yeah. Complicates your life. Yeah, honesty is the best policy. So, why would they lie about that? Especially cuz the Wall Street Journal. had like. they did this huge piece about all of. the drone so-called un By the way, unidentified anomalous drone flyovers. over the military bases and sensitive.

sites, which includes nuclear plants. I. mean, I Part of my interest in this was. always you know, I was trying to save. Diablo Canyon in California. They kept. getting drone flyovers. Also, Palo. Verde, which is our biggest nuclear. plant, three beautiful reactors there in. Arizona. Like a lot of drone flyovers. I'm also from Northeast Colorado, which. is where, you know, the ICBMs are. A lot. of They whole They did this exact same. drone situation. I believe it was Decem. I want to say December 2019. Um and they. had this whole interagency task force.

and they were like they were like, "Oh, we're going to put a plane up." And they. kind of put a plane up and you're. watching them and you're like, You're like, "Well, why are they not. scrambling jets? Like what are we like. what are we doing here?" Like this is. really bizarre. make any sense. Doesn't I can't figure. it out because. I think the other issue is that they may. not. know. I mean, okay, well, so to finish. that story. So, then Jerod and Mayorkas. do that. I go out and I'm just like like. that's the weirdest lie because like it. was just it's been heavily reported. I. mean, the drones is I mean, the drones. over sensitive military bases is really.

well reported and some of the best. reporting was by a uh publication called. The War Zone, which is I highly. recommend. Um very good, serious. investigative reporting. They don't. believe it's aliens at all. Like they're. just openly like anti-alien. They're. like this is and I think it's. Well, anyway, for whatever reason, they're just like this is Chinese or. Russian or whatever. They're not taking. it seriously, but they do some of the. best reporting cuz they're kind of cuz. they can't figure out why the military's. being so weird about it. So, then Trump comes out and he goes, they know what it is. I don't know why.

they're not telling anybody. And I'm going to tell everybody on the. on the 20th. I mean, I I first of all, I'm really. happy that they're going to disclose and. I want to raise expectations about what. the Trump administration's going to do. We want the data and I mean, someone was. criticizing me cuz they were like all oh. cuz I came out and I said, I'm confident. the Trump administration is going to. share the data and they're like, that. just shows that Shellenberger is. you know, it's like pro-Trump and. whatever. And I was like, no, I'm just. like pro-disclosure. I want the. expectations to be high because they. should be high. There is so much.

information they're not releasing. So, you know, they were over Bedminster. and he he's talked about it twice now, by the way. So, look, we're. about it, obviously. He's worried about it. So, we're either. headed for a pretty epic moment of. disclosure. There's another part of me. that worries. So, I Okay, so it seems. like. Yeah, they could do disclosure and we. could find out what it is. You know, is. it if it's there's could be aliens. If. it's aliens, that's just a whole can of. worms and then you have to be like, is. there like do we talk to them and if so,

who who's doing that? Do you think we have? I I I genuinely don't know. I genuinely. don't know. I mean, there's um. there's this guy named I can't remember. his first name, Stringfield. He wrote uh. this incredible thick book of. um. UAP crashes, crash retrievals and it's. and he was started doing it I want to. say. 50s or 60s and he did he made for like. multiple decades and you just sit down. with that book and it is like. it's impressive. I mean, if it's a hoax,

it's just um one of the greatest hoaxes. of all times. You know, like other. hoaxes, um you know, like the protocols of the. elders of Zion or whatever, they're. they're really bad. Like they're really. you're just like this is like the. dumbest hoax ever. Like most hoaxes are. not that sophisticated with all these. details and nice people interviewed. Of. course, Roswell is the big case, but. it's only apparently one of them. There's others. So, there is this incredible, you know, gray literature, never published by any. academic press, by any really a little.

bit of commercial non non-fiction. Um. Obviously, I have David Grusch and Lou. Elizondo. I testified in front of. Congress on this in. guess I was in December or November and. um you know, two people, the two guys. from the military when we when we were. asked, what are they? Two guys said, non-human intelligence. And then me and the NASA guy said, we. don't know. Um. because I just don't. I mean, I just um. What do you think the drones over New. Jersey were? I mean, look, here's here let me tell.

let's just let's just let's just let's. just look at the possibility that. they're human. Um. They didn't get a single one of them. They didn't down a single one of them. Not a single one of them crashed and. there was a lot of them. And now there. was a lot of Look, there's a lot of. mistaken sightings. Um. you know, it is easy to mistake things. It's totally natural, but but there was. also I mean, I interviewed mayors, two. mayors. were like one of them that was like, I. had an SUV-sized drone flying over my. house. Another one said he was going to.

a Fox News interview in New York. The. car came for me, walked out his door and. there's one hovering right over him and. he said it, you know, felt like it was. watching him. Like it was there. monitoring him. I mean, that's weird. stuff. Um so, we can't get a single. drone down. They're over military bases. They can't seem to get any of them. Um. I you know, do I think the Chinese could. be behind it or the the those are the. Chinese? I mean, when the Chinese decide. to like encroach in you in like in the. South China Sea, when they decide to you. know how they like they'll like warn the.

United States occasionally like, you're. flying over our airspace. It's all super. calculated and like. you know, like they're make they're. they're it's like a performance. The. Chinese are like, we're messing with. you. Like you all kind of know and. they're doing it in ways where they. don't want it to escalate, but they want. to get a little bit more of that space. It's all super calculated. Now, there. was the balloon. You know, are there Chinese balloons? Yeah. But I mean, to be buzzing air our. military bases, it's just so aggressive. Now, I've I've said it before. I've had.

other people point out. They go, well, they're aggressive with the cyber. attacks. I guess that's true. It as a. physicalist, I guess I kind of go flying. your drones over US military bases and. nuclear plants, that is just a level of. aggression that just doesn't seem. characteristic of the Chinese. Unless you were Well, of course, I agree. with you. An intel person told me. um that that that this person believed. that they were in fact Chinese and that. a Chinese satellite.

went down, was visible to the naked eye. There was new stories about it and it. it evaporated, uh. burned up and that this person told me. that was taken down by the US. government. That was a commanding. control satellite for these drones and. the belief was. the Chinese government was sending the. following message, we're moving on. Taiwan and maybe other things. You can't. do anything about it. Okay. Okay. So, you know, look, I have no idea if. that's true or not. Zero. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That just doesn't It just. I just got to say it's just it's just so.

aggressive and and also but the other. thing is that like, you know, actually. It seems really reckless and. the Chinese have not. been seeking confrontations like that. for the most part. Um now, Jesse. Michaels, who is doing some of the best. reporting on this issue of UAPs, um he's. doing YouTube videos. He just did a. documentary that was incredible. Like I. think it's like an hour a couple of. hours, highly recommended that goes. through the very long history of. unidentified anomalous phenomena over US.

military bases, including all these. cases of, you know, several cases of. them shutting down um. systems. Like a 65-year-long history. Yeah. Yeah, and there was this famous uh. press conference with like Miss Aliers. and others from military bases in in. Washington, D.C. I want to say in the. 90s, maybe maybe 80s. Um so, you know, like that predates. any of the Chinese stuff by far. It. predates all the drones. So, that was.

going on for a really long time. I mean, if you just kind of if you step. back and you look at it, it looks like a. very like, what is it communicating at a. very basic level? It's definitely. communicating dominance. You know, it's it's you can read it in a. lot of different ways and that's similar. to what the the Navy pilots said around. the Tic Tac. um interactions off both coasts is that. these were um. phenomena or you know, or objects, whatever you want to call them or craft. that were just demonstrating dominance.

over our craft. They were able to do. things that our craft weren't doing. So, yeah, I mean, And that was from their. perspective the point of. the behavior was to say, we can do. things that you can't. Yeah, and so then. it then it then it then the question. would be, so if it is NHI, then the. question is, are they communicating. something? And if they are communicating. something, why would they only be doing. it in that way? Like. you would you would like if you're like. if you're trying to demonstrate your. strength to an adversary or something, you're trying to send some message, why.

would you just do that? Cuz you there's. nothing that we can do with that. information. So, then you have to. wonder, okay, if it is NHI and it's. behaving in that way, Yeah, non-human intelligence, then is. there some. is there actually some other. communication going on Right. that we. don't know about? And of course, there's. just a long history and there's all. these crazy stories of, you know, presidents. I mean, going back to. Eisenhower. So, just to just to bottom line your. view after reporting on the lights over.

New Jersey. uh in Pennsylvania, New York, uh. mid-Atlantic. drone. hysteria. Do you think they were human-made. drones? I I genuinely don't know. I mean, I will. be I'll be I might be more shocked if. they were human-made because of their. behaviors and they never were able to. get one. I did have somebody tell me. recently that they had heard I mean, again, it's always second-hand. It's so. untrustworthy, but somebody told me that. that the military got one of the the. orbs, the famous orbs and opened it up.

and it was Chinese. I mean, if that's the case, then somebody has. mastered anti-gravity and that's almost. harder for me to believe than that it's. NHI because. I mean, it's just. I mean, I don't know. I mean, look, we. have a I mean, here's the I I go I go I. literally I go back and forth. You can. see me doing it in the same. conversation. But we have these huge. black budgets in the military. I mean, just gigantic and they've been there for. decades. So, is it possible to cover up something. like that? I think it might be. I mean,

I'm much more after having covered the. Hunter Biden laptop and. I mean, Russiagate 2, but really the. Hunter Biden laptop, I was just. impressed by how many people were. involved in the conspiracy to cover it. up. I mean, you had the FBI getting it, covering it up, basically working with. working with Aspen Institute to run a. disinformation campaign. By the way, um. this is Vivian Schiller um and Garrett. Graff run the disinformation campaign.

aimed at persuading journalists in. advance of the release of the Hunter. Biden laptop. that it was a Russian information. operation. Garrett Graff is the guy that goes and. does the big UFO book. So, these things. all I mean, this was very weird. So, he. comes out with a big book on UFOs. I. think it was last year. It was called. UFO, Garrett Graff. This is somebody. that is famously close with the. intelligence community. His other books. were on Watergate and on 9/11.

The book. Both of which were totally legitimate. No, for sure. And I'm sure the the. official story is everything we we to. know. So, you know, you sort of go And. what was his conclusion on UFOs? Well, it was very it's the um. the narrative is that they don't know. what they are. So, he doesn't fully he's. not like a debunker like these guys who. are like all oh, we can explain. everything. So, he's much more. sophisticated than that. But it's basically a debunking. It's. basically that. it's basically that it's it's just all. the you know, typical explanations.

um and then maybe some US military. programs, but he also just says that he. just argues that the US military doesn't. know what it is. I don't believe Garrett Graff and the. reason I don't believe Garrett Graff is. because I saw him participate in a. disinformation campaign on Hunter Biden. laptop and I know for a fact there was. something else going on at that Aspen. Institute program and Aspen Institute of. course is a massive US government-funded. NGO. that cosplays as a kind of you know,

bourgeois gabfest. So, there I mean So, I'm like that was. for me that was all came out in the. Twitter files. I discovered that in the. Twitter files and for me it was like. pulling back the curtain and you. actually have as a journalist like you. you we have the emails, you know, like. you have the documents, you have the. tabletop exercise where they're. brainwashing journalists into believing. a lie about the Hunter Biden laptop. That was so sophisticated of that. because they they basically go and. brainwash journalists before the story.

comes out because they know they're. listening to Giuliani, you know, they're. FBI tap on Giuliani. You're listening to. Giuliani. They had they knew they got we. got to go brainwash the journalists. They go get all the journalists from all. the major outlets plus the social media. platforms in these seminars where they. program them. Um I mean that was like for me it was. like wow, there's like a secret. government. Like it was like there's. some there's like a whole there's like a. whole it's a very and it was very just. sophisticated. I don't know how else to. describe it. Like it was very everything. seemed very careful. Also with all the. censorship stuff you see these limited.

hangouts, right? Where limited hangouts. are kind of like the public relations of. a covert operation of like a covert. propaganda operation where like after. they get caught they can be like oh, no, we were totally honest about what we. were doing. We were talking about it. But they do these weird limited. hangouts. You'll see these people that. clearly look like either directly. intelligence community or their. intermediaries. having these conversations they put on. YouTube and like they're like but it's. like. you know, a couple hundred views. Like.

they're not promoting them in any way. And so, you just kind of go wow, there's. like a whole creepy like world of. disinformation. realize is that the covert operations. are really not covert. Like all the all. the information's out there actually. Right. But it's just discredited or. unnoticed or no one collates it. Have. you noticed that? Yeah, I know I know. and then and you only can understand it. um. when you see the whole big picture cuz. it there's there's no smoking guns ever. So, there's never something you can I.

mean Hunter Biden laptop got us about as. close to a as a smoking gun as you can. get. And it helped because it was what helped. to expose it was that you it was. partisan. And so, it was a particular partisan. weaponization. My concern with the UAPs. I mean it's now I guess the strength and. the weakness is that it's become. bipartisan in terms of the desire. I. mean it was a really I mean Tucker, the. weirdest experience I've had. I've. testified now like 12 times or 13 times. in front of Congress in the last few. years. The weirdest experience I've had. was on UAPs seeing the Democrats and.

Republicans basically being aligned in. wanting to get to the bottom of the UAP. thing. I mean it's beautiful. Like I. never seen I was like I this is I've. never I've heard of bipartisanship. Never thought I would see it in you. know, in the wild. Um so, that is. exciting. On the other hand, I suspect. there is also some bipartisan group. that's trying to prevent that. information from getting out for some. reason. So, I mean look I mean it is a. I mean what is going to happen? I mean I. mean part of me is you know, maybe it's. my defensive pessimism on it cuz I like.

everybody else I want the information. Part of me is like there's just no way. they're going to let that information. out. It's just something is too there's. something about the UAP thing like the. JFK thing where there's some secret. there that they are really there is some. group of people that really don't want. us to know. So, you know. Well, that's a that's a fact. I've. bumped up against that personally. several times. on both of those issues which appear to. be related. Yes. I but I don't know the answer. All it's.

it's almost like seeing something in. photographic negative. All I know for a. fact confirmed is that they are willing. to go to extreme lengths to keep it. secret. And so, that's just a tell that it's. there's something profound there. It's. not just a bureaucracy covering its own. ass. It's more than that. how about the clip where Pompeo is being. interviewed about the JFK files and then. he like literally mid-sentence goes but. I mean I've also seen the UFO files. And. it was like well, why why did you just. switch from like what made you think of.

the UFO files on the JFK files? I don't know. I mean um So, anyway, is. there a secret has there have we. developed anti-gravity? Have we. developed I mean we know that in the. '50s there were like there was a there's. a whole book on it. It's very. fascinating. But there was like there. was an anti-gravity program in the US. military with our defense contractors. It made the cover of one of the. aerospace magazines. It was like it was. like a cover of it and then it just. disappeared.

And so, you can kind of go. I mean I think the official explanation. is yeah, we tried that and it didn't. work. It's like well, that's never stopped you before. Right. Um like it not working like that's like. um. you know, like. like you would keep working on it if you. can do anti-gravity. So, the other. possibility is that it just went dark. and they just they kept doing it. Well, I I wonder though about the like the. possibility that there is a. or has been technology transfer from. some other realm to this realm.

Um cuz there are you know, just in the. study of history there are. it's like there's really no. understanding at a bunch of different. points of in human. societal evolution like where did that. technology come from? And you see that on a bunch of different. technology. So, but nuclear anti-gravity. that kind of stuff like. are you open to the possibility that. that there's been like a transfer of. that technology from some other I mean. that is definitely there's definitely. that is that is what a lot of people.

talk about. Yeah. I mean the problem with this issue. is just it's very frustrating because. it's just all second hand. Of course it is. And so, like the Hunter Biden laptop is. not second hand. Like it's first hand. and I have the documents. Now, there are a bunch of really. fascinating. uh you know, alleged US secret US. government documents on UFOs on on. alleged alien spacecraft crashes. Um they're called the you know, Majestic.

documents or the MJ-12 documents and so, the story is that. Um you know, that that one or two of. these craft crashed in 1947 near. Roswell, New Mexico. and that sort of begins and you know, and there's a whole cast of characters. that allegedly you know, um including. Oppenheimer were involved in that. program. You know, the. Why would Oppenheimer be involved? Well, why I mean because he was the man, you. know, like he was like he was our. greatest scientist obviously the father.

of the atomic bomb and and you know, Roswell is where the um where we. launched the the flights to bomb. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So, it's very. symbolic in that sense. Maybe more than symbolic. Yeah, maybe. more than symbolic. I mean they keep. flying over nuclear like as my wife says. she's like the alien your aliens really. they don't like the nuclear, you know, cuz I love nuclear. So, and I'm kind of like I'm like well, yeah, I mean like and also the most. ridiculous thing is when people are like. all yeah, they want us to give give up. our you know, the people that believe in. them they go the aliens are here and.

they want us to give up our nuclear. weapons. It's like doesn't sound like a. good idea to me. Um the foreign space invaders would like. you to give up your most powerful. weapons. Um but those documents I spent. a bunch of time on them and I couldn't. figure out how to report anything on it. because of course of course FBI was like. these are all debunked. They're all. frauds. But there are first of all, there's a. lot more of them. You go to. majesticdocuments.com and you can look. at them. They're amazing. I mean if they. are. and I've also had an the other and. they're by the way in those in the. Garrett Graff book they're in that book.

They're also in another debunking book. called um by Mark Pilkington. Um I can't think of the name right now. Um but they they all all the people that. are the debunkers deal with these. documents and their story is not that. they were all hoaxes. Their story is. that they were what's called. counterintelligence passage material. Documents that were created by the US. government but leaked to people to. ostensibly be able to smoke out double. agents or people like you would see them. I guess you would trace these documents.

Right. Like putting dye in the water to. find the leak. yeah, exactly. So, I mean but the thing. is I mean it is like there's like one of. them is a handbook of crash retrieval. like for like to like that the that the. soldiers would ostensibly read to. retrieve these crash. I mean it's. they the if they're hoaxes, they're. incredible. I mean like they have like. they have like they they have like the. people like they have I forgot what it's. called but like basically like a. manifest where they show who's checked. it out and read it and they've all these. different names and they've checked. those names and those were like real.

people at those air bases that had these. documents. So, um and then you know, there was one document in particular. where it was a memo from JFK to the CIA. director Dulles where he says, I want to. see you on this particular day. It was. like July '62 or '63. I can't remember. which. And now again everyone was like well, that's a forgery. It's part of the MJ-12. documents or whatever. It's not real. But then they released the JFK files and. then sure enough we see the Dulles. calendar and he had met with JFK twice. that day and nobody had known that they. had had those meetings until we had that.

JFK um memo until we had the. confirmation of the memo. So, that would. suggest that at least. either that document is real, that JFK. memo to Dulles, or whoever forged it. knew that he had met with Dulles that. day and nobody else had known that. So, you know, you'd be sort of like, I guess. I I guess you could still put it in the. This is why this is the problem with. this issue is you can still there's. there's still plausible deniability for. a lot of for all these things. You know, you can make up a reason for why these.

documents are all counterintelligence. passage material. Um. I don't know. That's why I just have to. kind of go I I don't know. I mean, I. talked to a lot of people and. yeah, it's just a lot of second-hand. information and the documents are. second-hand. So, you kind of go there's. like my world of like the Hunter Biden. laptop which still a bunch of my. progressive and Democrat friends and. family don't believe. You know, they. still they still think the Russians were. somehow involved. Um but like I actually. have the documents and we can prove what.

happened there. On the UAP stuff, it's. just still just surrounded in. But the incoming president has said he. just said, "I'm going to. tell you what those drones were about.". He was very relaxed about it, too. I. mean, I was struck that when they when. he he did she said it twice. He said it. again recently like last week, right? And but then he said it in December. He. was I don't know why they're buying like. I don't know why they're not telling. people what they are. They know what. they are. And I was like I was like I. mean, it was a really. um he made it sound like it's no big. deal. Like we should just tell people.

what it is. But if Trump knew what it is. and if he if it's NHI and Trump knows. that, he seemed very relaxed about that. because of course the I mean, the the. main. the dominant the conventional wisdom. among people that follow this who think. it's NHI is that. um it's bad news. That it's not a great that it's not a. great story that if it were good news. and that they were just friendly space. brothers, you know, offering us. you know, advanced tech then and they'd.

be like and there's no strings attached. or whatever. That would be a much easier. story to sell. But if there's some bad. news in that story, then that might. explain why they're so secretive. there's some bad news. My theory is that. the reason that permanent Washington or. deep state or whatever. uh people who administer the system hate. Trump is not because of any of his. policies which they're probably agnostic. on, but because they fear that he will. disclose information. I think it's. everything's about disclosure. If you. look at the federal government, what's. its defining quality? It's secrecy,

right? Billion classified documents. Why. is that? Right. It's not good. It's. never good. Your kids behave like that, it's not good. No. They're using drugs. or whatever. You know what I mean? Right. They're having sex they shouldn't. be having. There's never a good reason. for that kind of secrecy. It's not. privacy, it's secrecy. Right. Yes. And. there's something about Trump that makes. everybody nervous that he might say. more of what he knows than he should. Well, they don't control him obviously. So, that's that's very nerve-wracking. I. mean, how much do you think that they're. just worried that he's going to pull out. of NATO?

How much of it is that? That's I mean, I. of course that's that's in my daily. prayers that he would do that. I don't. think he's in danger of doing that. Um. I hope certainly hope so. But I think. it's even more fundamental. It's like. this guy could say the truth. Mhm. Because Trump is not much of a liar. actually by Washington standards. He's. an exaggerator, of course. But actually his defining quality is. like saying the truth. Is being honest about kind of the big. issues. The big issues, exactly. So, what do you um so you think he knows.

what it is? The UAP stuff? Yeah. think that. Yes. And and you think it it's a NHI? You know, I he hasn't told me. But yeah, and I do think he knows. Pretty sure. Pretty sure he knows. And. I'm pretty sure that everybody I've ever. spoken to who I think knows a lot more. than I do. I mean, what does it mean to. know? Like do we really know anything? I. don't know. I'm. I'm not sure anybody ever fully. understands this or even partially. understands it. But the people who. who I'm confident have a lot more.

information than I have. Mhm. to a person are very very uncomfortable. about it. Yeah. Since not in public, in. private. Which is another tell. That I'm just I mean, you've talked to a. lot of people. I mean, yeah, no. I mean, it's there. it's very um yeah. I mean, I say my. prayers. I'm still Christian. I mean, um. you know, it's interesting Joe when I. was on Joe Rogan's podcast last time. I. mean, here. you know, Joe was like, "I think that. they're extraterrestrials." You know, he's openly saying that. Yeah, it's not the that's not the case.

Well, okay. Or NHI. I guess NHI. Yeah. Um. But I mean, here you and Joe are like. the two big most influential podcasters. in the country and you both think that. it's not just a government secret tech. or that it's not just plasmas. And Joe's very close with Elon. Mhm. Loves Elon. You know, like me and I. think probably like you believes that. Elon deserves a huge amount of credit. for saving free speech in this country. Um. Elon says there's nothing there. Never.

sees anything. And they've got an. amazing rocket system that sees a lot of. things. sure. I've talked to Elon about this a. number of times and I'm not sure he says. that. Okay, I thought he did say that. I. thought he said if I see if there's any. aliens. He jokes about it which is a tell. Um. Trump does, too. And they all they joke in the same way. I mean, I of course I love them both, obviously. And I feel like you know, I'm. um I feel like they both have really. been great for this country, you know, net net as they say. But um No, they.

joke about it in the same way that a lot. of people joke about it. They're like, "No, there are no flying saucers from. Mars." Right. they're not from Mars. They're not from. another planet. They're from here. They've always been here. These are. spiritual entities. This is my view and. I I sincerely believe it. Can't prove. it. But since you asked, so he is I've never. heard Elon say that's not true. That there's nothing there. He just said. like. we monitor space. That's what they do, right? And this is self-evident. If. there were there've been so many. sightings.

in this country and around the world. that if they were from. another galaxy far, far away, there. would be some. satellite evidence of that. They'd be. picked up coming into our atmosphere. And of course that's not. as far as I know. Joe, we do have some. photos. I mean, there's that one photo. of the one I can't remember. It's like. it's in the James Fox documentary. So, there are some of those apparently. Coming through space in here. only I've been told there's a lot more. of these photos and images. But yeah, I. mean, there's also. me though. I mean, it's clear that these.

things reside, you know, deep in the. earth, under the water and in the. in the atmosphere. So, um And why the. elusiveness then? Why the secrecy? Well, that's the question. That is the. question. I mean, why is everybody who I. Again, I don't know what anybody really. knows. I don't know anything. I just. want to start every sentence by. admitting I don't know anything. I don't know what happens when you die. I don't know how the brain works. I. don't know anything. I don't know what. sleep is for. Mhm. None of us do. That's. a really interesting one. That's a. surprisingly interesting one actually.

But it's such a it's so revealing of the. limits of human knowledge. It's like, "Oh, science has solved this." Really? What's sleep for? Tell me how that. benefits us. Sleep, really? Um but anyway, so I just always want to. say and remind myself of the limits of. my knowledge which are profound. So, I. don't know anything. But once again, every person I've talked. to who I believe has deeper knowledge on. this question than I have. has seemed burdened by it. Mhm. Have you. noticed this? Yeah. Yeah, it's not fun.

anymore. money from it. No. These are not people trying to get. famous from it. These are people who. just seem to have this knowledge and. they're they're bothered by it. So, that's to me. don't think it's I don't think it's to. cover up a secret weapons program. I. mean, in other words like I don't think. that's how you would do it. It's so like. yeah, I don't believe it. A secret. weapons program. Yeah. Sorry. It's much deeper. Look, weapons programs come and go. Right. Weapons that we thought were fearsome. when I was a child are a joke now. We're. we're watching weapons technology change. so fast in the Ukraine war that people.

can't even get their brains around And. you wouldn't need this elaborate and. also like if you're doing passage. material like just to go back to those. cases, like why would it be that and why. would there be so much of it? Why would. it why wouldn't it be something. um anyway, it's a very curiously large. body of passage material. Yes. On this particular topic. Well, that's right. Well, that's that's. what I was saying. Like I do think all. the. puzzle pieces are sort of in plain. sight. Did you ask Putin about it?

Um I I did not ask Putin about it. Um I. would never have done it on air Mhm. because I did ask him a bunch of. questions off off camera. about you know, he has access to the of. course. He controls the Soviet archives. which and the the Soviets are great. archivists. And we know that from the, you know, couple of I'm interested in Soviet. leadership and government and all that. stuff. There've been a couple amazing. books written. Um The Court of the Red Tsar being I. think the greatest of them about Stalin, for example. And one thing you learn. from reading the book is they kept.

records on everything. Almost like the. Nazis. Like crazy level records. And you know, most of them have never. been disclosed. So, I had I did have. some questions for Putin about that. About Rudolf Hess specifically. It's one of the great stories in history. that doesn't make any sense at all. The number two guy in Nazi Germany. flying into Scotland in a plane by. himself and bailing out. Mhm. You know, right before. the US entry into the war and had all. these things to say that were wild. And. one of the things he apparently said in. his debriefs was he believed.

that Hitler was being influenced by. demonic spirits that he had summoned. through the occult. Huh? That's not worth knowing more about. There's a lot of stuff on that. There's a lot. There's a lot. But Hess. said that. So, I immediately asked Putin. about that off camera. I didn't want to. seem like a wacko having unauthorized. questions. But I did ask him about that. He did not get. a satisfactory answer. But I did not ask. him about UFOs. Well, I thought also they you know, you. may have seen Mark Andreessen recently. say that when he met with White House. officials who said that they wanted to. take all they they wanted to take.

control over all AI. that they said to him something like. we've we've declassified whole. areas of science since the 1950s. And I was like that just seemed like a. reference to. this stuff. At least at least the at least the. anti-gravity if not to some of the UAP. stuff. I think the modern Western mind, the. post-1945 Western mind is incapable of. understanding some of the stuff because. we lack.

the language of, you know, metaphysics. And I think that's, you know, just been. a feature of human thinking from. the cave period Right. until we dropped the atom bomb, in which. case it just like turned off and we're. like, oh, only the material world is. real, but no one else has ever thought. that cuz that's not true. Well, like for. 100 years, right? Really from Darwin, you know, like 150 years or something. Yeah, but I don't think I mean even. before before the war, before dropping. those bombs, which really were I mean I do think. that's like the pivot point in history.

more than anything else, but yeah, there've been secular movements, you. know, rich people always think they're. God and so they want to. eliminate any rivals from the public. from the conversation, but those bombs, man, everything changed. You don't. think? Well, it sure seemed like it. I mean, there's. a really positive side of it though, which is that we haven't had these awful. wars. Yes. Brutal. I mean, when you look. at the death toll that was going up from. up and up and up from wars all. throughout the. 19th and 20th centuries, it's awful. So,

we've it's they've spared us that, but. it took something apocalyptic. Well, it's been 80 years, we'll see. Yeah. So, last question, sorry, I've got. Can you imagine sitting next to me at. dinner like you. I never get anything done. Um, and you're I think. one of the most knowledgeable people in. the country on like all the most. interesting topics, so You're too kind. No, it's well, it's just it's just a. fact. In fact, if there's anything in. this conversation I think is like. provoked in people to desire to hear. more Michael Shellenberger, so. Thank you. Um.

do you think it's possible that what. we're seeing in LA, which does feel like. the destruction of our second biggest. city, Mhm. um from which maybe there's no recovery, I don't know, I hope, but do you think. it's. a an act of war in some sense? Mhm. You mean from a foreign power or. Oh. Like what what's the evidence for that? It happened. And it happened between Trump's election. and his inauguration. And it's just crazy. Yeah. The second.

Trump got elected I had this instinct. like, oh man, I bet a lot there's going to be bad bad. stuff that happens. I mean. I was more struck by that on the UAP, on. the drone UAP. it's of a piece. The bizarre Tesla explosion in Las. Vegas, the mass shooting, like there's. just. Yeah. if there's a 2-month period in my whole. life, 55 years, where more more weird. shit's been packed into 2 months, I. can't think of it. Yeah. Can you? No, it's freaking me out a little bit, honestly. I mean the the I spent a bunch.

of time on the Livels burger, that's the. guy that killed himself in the Tesla in. Las Vegas. I mean, you definitely have cases of PTSD. causing people to do things and people. are surprised by suicides, but yeah, it was a weird one, you know, and I was skeptical of his emails cuz. you know, he sent these emails to Shawn. Ryan, it's another excellent podcaster. now. I think you've had him on or you've. been on there. I I he's a friend of. mine. I. I can just for the record I consider him. an honest Oh, no, I did too. is an honest man. Everyone always says.

he's a CIA operative. Oh, shut up. No. No, no, I was like I I was like into it. because because I believe in Shawn and. and I didn't I'm sure he did not fake. that. So, you know, and then they and then the. FBI did confirm that those emails were. real. On the other hand, you know, that. was a weird one too because also it felt. like he was like, oh, the the Chine-. those were Chinese drones, they've. mastered gravitic. It just felt like he. didn't really know what he was talking. about either. So, there's just a lot of. a lot of people talking. before? I mean, I I thought it was.

anti-gravity is what I've heard, so. never Well, you're a writer, you're a. word person. I'd never heard that word. or seen that word. felt like he was using it wrong. That. was my instinct, so. thought too. I looked it up. Yeah. No, I mean, I guess I I look at it I. just think um. Nietzsche really nailed it, which is. that when people, you know, when people. stop believing in traditional religions, they become they they unconsciously, you. know, develop. you know, they they develop new sense of.

guilt, a new vision of the apocalypse, they invent a new soul. I mean, people. think that there's this thing called. gender, which is separate from your. body. It's kind of like a soul. My. friend Abigail Shrier. um pointed that out. And so, we just end. up recreating. Christianity, but in a deformed and. deranged way. And and it and the. emergent quality of it is this. destructive fire. Like you don't it's. actually more powerful cuz nobody got. out there and said, you know, let's let. I mean,

somebody did say let's let Malibu burn, but that was never like the explicit. policy of the government of LA. It's. just something that emerges after. years of budget cuts, after years of. self-hating ideologies like DEI, like. climate apocalypse, like the homeless. apocalypse. It's just emerges kind of deep from deep. within us, from some from some. self-destructive part of us. So, for me, if there's a foreign. invasion, it came through the human. psyche, not from outside of it. Michael Shellenberger, how can um.

people find you? Uh public.news and @shellenberger on X. The best. Thanks for having me, Tucker. Really appreciate you. Yeah. [Music]. Thanks for watching our YouTube channel. We hope you'll subscribe to it. And by. the way, you can also hit the little. bell icon and get a notification every. time we produce a video. We hope you'll. do that, too. [Music].