Tucker and Mike Cernovich on Nicolas Maduro’s Capture, Charlie Kirk’s Murder, and Battling Demons

Thank you, Mike, for doing this. So, what do you  think of the apprehension of Nicholas Maduro? I'. I've dealing with a lot of cuz I spent a lot of  time online, which you don't, and I think there's. pros and cons to each approach. And the the pro is  that you're really plugged in. The con is that if. you read the comments, which I do, you really take  a lashing every day. Like I just all l cuz you.

can't by by virtue of taking a position you just  get lashed by one side or the other. Heard that. So now apparently I'm a neocon again. I'm a I'm  a neocon which is bizarre because I was pro the. the raid on Maduro and people say well therefore  you're a neocon and the answer well you're not. a neocon which is so that's why it's interesting  that you were in favor of course but if you're if. you're online yeah of course but if you're online  you're whatever the most extreme that's what they. call you and no I'm not I'm not and I'm not an  interventionist either but there's a I feel like.

we're always stuck between this false dialectic  of you either do nothing or boots on the ground. we need full marine battalions to take the beach  heads. Whereas I've always been approach I've. always been a fan of the Trump approach which  is used alpha. We have these guys do targeted. strikes remind the world that the USA is still  a world power even though we might not feel that. way and exercise our might for for a good purpose.  So people say, "Well, this is Iraq or Afghanistan.

again." And I go, "The people of Venezuela are  not the people have they're not the same people, right, as Afghanistan. It's a different people.  We've had special forces there for three, four decades. We've had business interests there  for decades. The people of Venezuela voted out. Maduro tried to and they couldn't get rid of  them. So, we went in and we got rid of them. So, obviously, I oppose escalation and whatever.  But the parade of wars, especially after SMAN, just hasn't happened yet. And that's because I  I've talked to a lot of um special operations.

guys during the Trump admin and his the way  his approach differed and this was covered a. little bit in the media but not enough is under  Obama they just didn't let the D boys and them. run missions. They everything had to get approval  and work up the chain and by the time it happened. they didn't have their targets. And the Trump  approach was we we have these people, they're. trained the the the level of the missions that  they can accomplish, which we saw on video, is.

unbelievable, right? And he lets them he lets them  do the missions, they do the targeted strikes. I've I've always been supportive of that. Yeah.  Um I don't know if I mean I've got a double stack. staccato 9 in my bedside drawer. I've never used  it. I don't feel the need to use it. But I mean, just cuz like But no, I Well, I'll just tell you  what I'm grateful for. And I'm grateful for the. wisdom of not taking out the entire government.  Not because I support the government, but because,

you know, we have clear models in Iraq and Libya  and a lot of Syria. Like, it can be very hard to. put those things back together again. and the fact  that they appear to be backing Deli Rodriguez, not because they love her, but because  they're in favor of stability over chaos, uh, and her brother, and they're kind of,  you know, keeping the structure in place, but making sure it's pro-American. That seems like  a much wiser approach. That makes me calm down a. little bit. Right. Yeah. the the the problem  that everybody the neoliberal and even some.

people on the right have is they don't understand  that you needed a strong man like Saddam Hussein. to keep all these religious sex together and it's  obviously it's obvious in hindsight right but at. the time people either didn't know and in my  opinion they didn't know I think that's true. people people were just generally clueless like I  remember I spent time with my wife in Vietnam and. and you you'd roam around all over the place  and I remember we did the tours of the caves.

And all I could think of was the tunnels. Not even  the tunnels yet, just the caves and the jungle. And all I could think of was, I can't even fit  in through here. What in the world are we doing? Sending 18-year-old cornfed boys and black guys  into V the Vietnam jungles. Cuz if anybody had. done any kind of advanced recon, you would just  say, "Our guys are too big for the territory.". You would literally just go through. There's  there's just a lot to be said for looking at the. real estate. And you would walk through and forget  the tunnel rats and all the other ways that they.

were buried in. You would just say there's no way  we can send our people out here. This is just a. completely different area. And then Vietnam people  have always tried to conquer them for thousands of. years and they actually take pride in not being  conquered. And the foreign policy elite of course. just said, "Well, we're going to do Vietnam." And  it was the same thing with Iraq and Libya. Oh, all people are the same. Everybody's the same,  right? We'll just remove Saddam Hussein and and. everything will be fine. And then of course you  have a mess. But with Venezuela and Latin America,

they're they're just pretty much like us. It's  a a little bit of different culture, but they've. been influenced by the Europeans. They've been  influenced by Catholic Church. They're running a. like similar operating system. You can communicate  to them in sort of like a shared language. So even. though people have doctrinal debates and everybody  want like debates religion and what's the truth, which to me is like the most boring thing in the  world. Like if somebody's a Christian and I'm a. Christian, you're going to maybe disagree about  can you drink, can you do this, what is this,

but you're still in the same language, right?  You're still able to you're still like close. enough that you can like you can understand  what someone's saying and we we didn't share. a framework with the Middle East. No, which is  a big problem. So in Venezuela, it's a it's a. different it's a different situation. And I also  like that the air defense was completely disabled. Even in the Iran strike that happened a few months  ago, we we disabled their air system. We we sent.

a message and I think we need to send a message.  The I'm sounding like a neocon. That's why I hate. that neocon I hate that neocons ruined it for all  of us. I hate that neocons ruined the discussion. where you can't just talk about how it's good to  have military might. It's good to remind the world. that we exist and that we can do these things.  We being the United States of America, it's good. to remind people that we're still running the  tables, but you talk like that and you sound. again like you belong at the Weekly Standard or  something. Well, I mean, you still have a chance.

to pivot against the neocons because the BB people  lit literally BB's office is pushing for MCM, this. Machado lady, the the gay marriage lady, the Claus  Schwab acolyte. um who is supposed to be the the. Nobel Prize winner actually who's supposed to be  the president and waiting and Trump has said flat. out no she has no support we're not doing that but  the neocons are pushing for her they don't want.

uh the vice president to ascend to the presidency  so you can say that's crazy well I knew when she. won the Nobel Peace Prize I actually posted we're  going to go into Venezuela I I you can just check. the but not with her well no but the point is  that's how the table gets set you can all by Now, by now you can tell the future if you just  know that they always set the table a little. bit beforehand. And the minute she won the  Nobel Peace Prize and then praise Trump, oh no, thank you for this. But and then she's immediately  kind of smooing with Trump, I go, "Oh yeah,

we're we're going into Venezuela." I don't need  any inside. I don't need any I don't need any top. secret sources. That was all I needed to see. So  whoever we send, I don't know. I just send Rubio. I I'm just I'm I'm where we went wrong. And I've  had this conversation with everybody from line. infantry guys to people who did the higher  level stuff in Afghanistan. As they said, we. just didn't want to rule the country. We we went  in and we won all the military engagements. This. is another thing too why I'm glad the Venezuela  mission happened. I was so I got so triggered,

man. The way that even people politically aligned  with us would talk about the American fighting. man. Oh, they they can't win a war. They got  beat by people who wear flip-flops and sand. No, they didn't. We took almost no casualties in  Afghanistan. And I think the last you were there, I'm not even sure if there was a single casualty.  It was the occupation that was lost. And these are. just completely different things. So I I think  it's good to just remind people that was all. black pill doomerism because of poor leadership  by people like Millie and Biden and the woke.

generals and that we we have a it's an unreal.  We should take great pride in the people that we. have in Delta and SEALs and special operations, of  course. But I mean, they're not making the policy. decisions. They're not. They're the instruments  of other people's decisions. They they are, but they it's a two-way street. These guys are  not potted plants, right? Of course not. But I'm. merely saying you can't hold, you know, a man with  a gun in his hand responsible for the decision to.

be there with a gun in his hand like he was told  to do that by someone in DC. Yeah. Yeah. there. with with I I don't know. I I think that with I  think that to have retention at these higher level. these higher level units I think is the DC people  they obviously have an opinion but I think I think. those guys get more of a vote than we might give  them credit for. They obviously can't just say. well I'm not going to go do this but they you know  they have a these are strong willed people. Like.

I've met enough of these guys. One they're  extremely impressive. It's just a different. caliber of person. And it's very humbling because  because I would say I couldn't do this. You know, maybe some aspect of it I could, but I couldn't.  I I I don't have any um delusions that I would. have been a squadron commander in Delta Force  or whatever. These are unbelievably impressive. people. Yeah, they are. So, they're they're not  just, you know, there, you know, scribbling down. notes while some Muppet gives them instructions.  Did you make a New Year's resolution? Eating. healthier, perhaps. Of course you did. We all  did. Well, snacks are the thing that is going.

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QR code and claim the offer. And if you don't feel  like doing it online, you can go to your local. Sprout supermarket across the country, grab a bag  before someone else does. So if the administration. pulls this off and the country remains intact  and you know you don't have various generals. occupying oil fields and claiming them for their  own, you don't have a civil war, you don't have. a migrant crisis that you know wrecks Colombia  or winds up here. If Venezuelans in the United.

States return to Venezuela immediately, as I think  they should be required to do, like immediately. um Venezuelan nationals, then you know that that  is amazing. That will be amazing. And I'm praying. for that. Yeah. It's always good to I mean it's  always good to look what look at what victory. looks like. And so you think this is victory? No.  It's good to think what victory would look like. Yes. This was this was the first step. I think  it was a good step. But victory looks like we.

install our person who is aligned. But you can't  have a puppet because then every cuz remember 2028. is not guaranteed. So we have to think longer term  too and you want to get a person who's aligned and. is has their own point of view but generally  is going to do the right thing. The people of. Venezuela dude they were eating that I mean you're  in Florida you talk to anybody in Florida they're. thrilled that that this happened that Maduro  is out of power. A lot of these people they had.

their farms taken their land taken. See I don't  care about that. Like you show up in our country, you adopt our concerns and importing your  homeland's conflicts into my country and. making those the basis of my foreign policy should  strip your citizenship immediately. What I mean I. don't know like I'm not advocating for anything in  Sweden or Great Britain. I mean I do you know what. I mean? Like they were up they were during during  World War I though. That's what we the Anglo who.

founded the country. So I guess they were allowed  to do it, but if you go back and read the debates. around World War I, a lot of it was about, well,  we should go back because that's the homeland and. people are naturally going to do that, which  is why gen which is why I support immigration. moritarium, everything, but you I don't know. I'm  I I guess I'm more of a pragmatist and idealist. We live in the world sort of as it is. And Florida  used to be a swing state. It's deep red now. Venezuelans who come over are anti-communist. We  need anti-communist. Miami anti- like I gave an.

example. So if if I if I if you hold events,  I mean, you're way too famous at this point. God help you. Is I mean that like sincerely, like  God help you. Um if you go to Miami and Antifa or. somebody showed up, the Cubans would just say,  "What do you get out of here like we're going. to Well, they did that during BLM. We're going to  like beat your asses. Miami had no meaningful BLM. riots. Tampa did. Why? cuz Tampa is the only  majority white city in Florida. That's why.

Right. So [ __ ] whites. It's like [ __ ] whites  indulge in that and the Cubans and Venezuelans. who come in and lived under communism. So I if  I if I look at the whole picture, sometimes it's. good to get a little injection of people who  live, you know, who lived under that because. they're going to they're going to see it not as an  abstract philosophical gentlemanly debate about, oh, should we allow wealth confiscation and for  your homelands to be destroyed? They see it as. a a fight for survival. So I I get it. I just  it to take the attention away from our country,

which as far as I'm concerned is not thriving.  Doesn't seem to be from driving around or there's. some problems that need to be addressed. Big  problems, imminent problems. And I don't know. to spend all your time worrying about Cuba. Like  I don't I love the Cubans here. Love them. But. how much money do you want to spend out of like  your kid's college fund on regime changing Cuba? I I'm I'm more of an imperialist I guess than you.  Like where we live in Rome, the empires do what.

empires do. Like I I just But look what happened  to Rome and London. Well, and Venice and every. other empire, but Rome Rome lasted a long time.  It did till the fall of Constantinople, which was. well that no eastern the Holy Roman Empire. Okay,  you're you're adding a few centuries on there. No, I I remember it's a funny story actually.  I remember I was because I, you know, I'm. argumentative sometimes and I remember in my 20s  I would always hear people say, "Oh, this is like.

the fall of the the Roman Empire." I was like, "I  wonder what that means." Well, this is all pre-. internet, too. So, you couldn't just read read  Twitter all day and have people summarize it. And. so, I bought Gibbons: The Decline of Fall of the  Roman Empire. All three volumes, the single most. boring treatment ever written. And it it's very  well written though. And I just kept reading and. reading and reading and reading and reading and  I think I got the a bridge six volume or whatever.

and I made it through 306 and I go there's a lot  to Rome. I don't know if we can just say there's. a singular point where oh this is where it's just  like the decline of fall. So I'm more I'm more um. bullshik pill on the time we're in. Like I I think  we're much more closer to the time of Franco or. the time of thesar in Russia and you know like  mystery grove when he republished those books. I. read all those and I did too. I had no real like  the white I remember actually it was funny when. you said uh where's the white army and then all  these websites try to say he he was a Nazi army.

and I was like you historical illiterates. It  was the white army. It was the people fighting. the white army. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. But you  realize how illiterate historic Oh, they thought. that I meant like white like the David army or  something. Yeah. No, I know. I mean again, no I. know I remember and I was like wow these people  are just illiterate historic illiterates and no. cuz she was sending the monologue like where's our  white army and immediately it was like Twitter was. like lighting up Tucker Carlson wants this is  why I don't look at it that's spiriting and uh.

no but that's really how illiterate people are and  people who write for a living should know better. right cuz I didn't know what the white army was  until I was under lockdown on co co in a way was. the worst thing to happen to regime propaganda.  Yes. Cuz everybody was locked in and we had all. these smart people who are just like posting  things and you'd have these long threads and I. go I never General Franco all I knew about General  Franco was he's a fascist, right? General Franco. was bad. Um the Republicans were good and that  was my understanding of it. Uh Cortez was bad,

the concisadors were evil men. They were they  were great wicked people. Okay, that was that's. what I learned in school. Bolshwick revolution. I  kind of had a sense that it happened and that the. communists won and it wasn't good, but I didn't  realize the the full evil, right? And then when. co you're like, "Wait a minute, people are just  posting books." I'm like, "Well, I guess I'll just. keep reading, you know, reading like three, four  books a week, right?" And you like you realize,

"Oh, no. We we're not living under the fall of  Rome. We're living under the time of the Spanish. Civil War or the the [ __ ] revolution. That's  what we're living under." Well, I agree. I agree. with that. And it's about it's a spiritual war  as both of those were. The French Revolution, same revolutions of 1848, same. It's all the same.  So we need we need the Cubans and the Venezuelans. and the people who I agree. I just want to focus  on the United States to keep it from becoming. Russia. Yeah, but it's like tied together. So  So let me Okay, so it does since you read Gibbon.

um and bless you for getting through that. It  took me almost a year to read that whole thing. because it's so tough. But um it's a different  it's a different writing style. It is a different. writing style and it's but it's worth it. So So  when you read older books, which is especially. good as we get up there in the years, they're they  have, you know, cuz I write short, punchy, boom, boom, boom. But then I have to remind myself,  you got to go back and read to where you read a. full paragraph and you're like, wait a minute,  I need to actually pay attention to what I'm. reading. The the flow is a little bit different  and it's a a much denser kind of writing. and a.

and a booklength idea can be fully formed, right?  But okay, but since you're interested in Rome, there was this pit I mean the pivot really was  not the fall of Rome. That was the end. And. you're you're giving Istanbul credit for being  Rome. Uh okay. But in the fifth century, Rome, the place was invaded by the German tribes and  collapsed. So the big pivot though was the move. from republic to empire. And it kind of feels like  that's where we are. It but we're afraid to be an.

empire, right? But maybe what we saw two days ago  is the beginning of a period where like, okay, we're an empire. We're embracing it. That that  was that's I mean that's my hope is, you know, American imperialism because I believe we're a  just and moral people. I believe we're a Christian. people. I believe that the Venezuela I believe in  like I believe that the greatest spiritual battle. is the and I don't mean to sound like utopian or  sound like a [ __ ] myself because some of this.

that's why again the left and the neocons like  they took all this they they ruined they ruined. everything because you end up sounding like a  leftist utopian or you you sound like a neocon. when you say these things but I just I believe on  my heart that America's the most righteous country. that is has ever lived that the Western Europe  if it if it doesn't fall needs needs to remain.

upright and that human suffering will be reduced  by what was done in Venezuela. So I think that's. one way that I look at foreign policy is in the  Middle East we created human suffering on a on a. scale that's catastrophic and Vietnam especially  too like that's one thing that always annoys me. that I think the Cambodian genocide should  be taught in our schools because one it was. because of communism and pullpot and two it was  our fault because we were using Cambodian airspace. and that's what led to Pulpot's rise and propping  up Princeuk and the whole thing. No it was you're.

absolutely right. If we have a national guilt,  we should actually have a national guilt over the. Cambodian genocide. And we never rebuilt it. We  just sort of left them to live in squalor. Well, you know who did fix it actually was Vietnam.  Vietnam invaded in 1978 and kicked him out, right? Yeah. We've got a new partner. It's a  company called Cowboy Colostrum. It's a brand that. is serious about actual health. And the product  is designed to work with your body, not against.

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I haven't quite figured out what I think. I have  a lot of thoughts. Obviously, I'm totally opposed. and have been since I rock since 2003 to anything  like this. On the other hand, I'm thinking to. myself maybe, well, maybe I'm not in charge  of history. Okay, that's like one thing that. Um, and maybe it's just time to accept the  reality of it. So, I would like to live in a small.

agrarian Christian republic where everyone knows  everyone else. Like, that's kind of my idea of. utopia. That's not anywhere near what we have.  We live on a continentized country with 350. million other people and we'll probably have 500  million by the time we're old. Okay. So, and we. run the at least half of the world. So maybe what  we're seeing is people just embracing what was. already true and not like fighting against like  I hate the idea of having an empire, but we do,

right? So maybe that is what's happening. I I  don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. No, I mean you're born into the world, right? That  that's that's the you know, you got an empire. Just roll with it. Be an empire. Like you're  born into a body. You're born into like a human. body and these like weird things. Then you have  to figure out how to balance being an animal in. and a spirit and you didn't we didn't choose it.  We're born into America at a particular place in. time and here's the problems that we have. Here  are the resources that we have. What you know what.

can we do to you know reduce as much as possible  human suffering and you know govern justly as. an empire. And we had one. We we we I mean in a  way we don't have one. That's the problem. It's. like the worst of all worlds where they invade the  world, invite the world. I forget who coined that, but that that's was a favorite of Pep Buchanan for  sure. Yeah. Yeah. It might have been Steve Sailor, one of those guys. But we had the the worst of  it, which is, oh, we're going to go in and destroy. your countries and then we're going to bring you  back up here to do daycare welfare fraud. Exactly.

Right. Whereas the righteous thing to do would  have said, "We're going to invade your countries, but we're actually going to share in your  resources." And that was one of the real. I think evils of removing Gaddafi was they had  education. They which again sounds very leftist. but a lot of this is just subjectively true. And  they had free oil more or less free petrol and now. they have you know open air slave markets. So we  we did the the worst. We didn't build empires. We.

destroyed other people's places and then rather  than colonizing them. We brought everybody up. here and now we we have 40 trillion in debt,  scam after scam. We have, like it or not, we. have blood feuds being imported where like now you  have to have an opinion about Somali land. My god, you know, in my life as I get older, I'm trying  to have fewer opinions. And now I have to know the.

difference between Somalia and Somali land. And  then you look at the Minnesota flag, which is is. obviously tied to Somalia. That that again is the  worst of all worlds. So if we're going to if we're. going to do it, then then we should we should  do it as an empire. So what does the future look. like? What are the next three years look like?  So you saw the president saying, you know, this. worked, we're going to do it in a bunch of other  countries. Well, the the future generally versus.

empire building are two different things because I  think the future we're we're on a pathway with the. transhumanism the there's a fork in the road  about humanity and what what what it what it. even means to be a human. So that is a whole other  different discussion. But if you mean geopolitics. for example, I think that we're going to continue  to see these kinds of targeted strikes. Now, the danger is that whose aim is what? To remove  the leadership of the country and replace it with. a pro-American. Yeah. Yeah. To put to put to, you  know, plop one guy out um put somebody else in.

And if you do it in places like Latin America, I  actually think you can do it. I mean, he Trump's. already talking about Colombia. The the Mexican  cartel that that's the the the strange thing about. all this is that the everybody says, "Why don't we  do Mexico?" And Mexico is a full narco state. They. have controls the border towns in the US. It's  a completely they have control of Arizona, don't. they? If you talk to the the Turning Point guys,  then they have some pretty strong opinions about.

Katie Hobbs and and how she got in. So, what would  a war with a cartella? It's a different it's a. whole different right Pandora's box opening there.  But if you can remove Maduro, you can remove a few. people, you're you're sending a message to people,  which is so here so here's where here here's why I. disagree with the the neocon model and I and  I think there's like a a right a right-wing. worldview that's coherent and it goes like  this. The neocon according to the neocon model,

everyone is just a madman. They're just mad men  everywhere. And Pakistan, they hate us for no. reason. They just they're just mad men and they're  not rational actors. Putin's a madman. Putler. that's the that's the whole worldview of just the  neocons of the neoliberal establishment. Putin's a. madman. And I'm like, well, I don't know. He's 70.  I read a lot about Russian history. The oligarchs. had taken over the country after Yeltson left.  You needed a strong man to come in. He brought.

the oligarchs to heal. The oligarchs were like  looting the country. And you you look at him. and you're like, this is you can call him evil.  That's a moral question. But somebody being evil. is different from whether somebody's a rational or  an irrational actor. Putin is is acting in a way. that I in my opinion is quite predictable and was  the most rational actor in the world and yeah of. course then you look at the the moolas and you  just say they want to have their thiefs. They. don't want high IQ people in Iran even. They're  trying to get rid of as many high IQ people as.

they possibly can. This was funny actually. I  was at a a dinner. There's a Persian diaspora. in in Orange County and and you know, LA. Huge.  Yeah. And you know, not just Jewish and you know, the secular and the Muslim. And I was talking  to this they're just like a good-looking couple, very well educated, smart. And I go, "How did  the how did you guys get out of Iran?" You know, it was like one of those things where I thought  I knew something, but I was revealed my own. ignorance. I said, "How did you guys get out of  Iran?" He goes, "Oh," he goes, "You get um" and.

people on Twitter call me a liar for this, too.  Which is like so annoying, but he goes, "No, no, you basically they give you IQ tests and if you're  high IQ and you're too high IQ, they let you get. educated. They want you out of the country because  high IQ people have too much of a revolutionary. risk." So that that there shows you that Well,  that's why we legalize marijuana. Same same idea, right? So that that's the I see the moolas under  a different model than the neocons do. And I view. them as they want to have their little thief dos  and they want to govern over the ashes. So yeah,

obviously we don't want them to have become a  nuclear power or or whatnot, but that doesn't mean. you have to go in and go to war with them because  oh no, any day now they might just do something. like crazy, right? I and I think that I think  that's like the right-wing position is you see. people you you remove the moral the moral mo which  most people can't do. Most people they want to say. the mulas are evil. Sure, nobody hates the mulas  more than the Persian diaspora. And of course,

nobody hates them more. So this whole idea that  they're not, it's like, sure, they're evil, but then the minute you talk about an evil person  engaging in rational activity, then they're like, oh wow, so you support evil, you know, God, I've  lived this. Oh my god. Right? Then you're dealing. with someone who shouldn't be involved in the  conversation because they're not capable of like. thinking clearly. Here's my concern. I agree with  I think your analysis is absolutely right. I mean, talk to the Gulf States. You think they  like the Mullas? No, they despise them, but they don't want to see them regime change  necessarily because what comes next? The only.

country that wants that is Israel. And not even  Israel, it's BB. It's specifically Netanyahu. and some of his supporters want that. And they're  putting enormous pressure on the administration to. do it. And my one my biggest concern about what  just happened in Venezuela is that will be seen. as a template for Iran. like let's just take out,  you know, the religious leadership of Iran or the. political leadership or the military leadership  and like everything will go as well as it did in.

Venezuela. And, you know, maybe that's true, but  if it's not true, the stakes are high. No. Well, that's why people have to have a a a definition  of what victory looks like because victory for. the United States looks different than victory  from other people. So, and this is where I think. people people like lose the plot a little bit.  So, it's in it might be in the interest of some. countries for there to be chaos because if there's  chaos in those people, you can kind of go in. You.

don't have to worry about it. It's the interest  of the United States for there not to be chaos. And I think of course that's Well, we say we say  of course, but nobody says it, you know. Well, I do constantly. Chaos is not in our interest.  Yeah. So, so it's in our interest that if we do. do regime change that we don't have we don't have  chaos. We do want to have a moral leadership and. moral clarity and we do want to keep things you  know on the right path. And then other people have.

different interests and it's just up to us to keep  pushing for orderly the orderly governance of the. world via American imperialism. Well, it wasn't  that long ago that many Americans thought they. were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters  you hear about all the time in third world. countries. A total power loss, for example, people  freezing to death in their own homes. That could. never happen here. Obviously, it's America. People  are recalculating, unfortunately, cuz they have no. choice. The last few years have taught us that.  Remember when the power grid in Texas failed in.

the dead of winter? Yeah, it happened and it could  happen again. So, the government is not actually. as reliable as you'd hope they would be. And the  truth is, the future is unforeseeable. And things. do seem to be getting a little squirly. So, if the  grid does go down, you need power you can trust. Last Country Supply newest product is designed  for exactly that. The Grid Doctor is a 3,300 W. battery backup system that will power full-size  appliances, medical devices, and tools with clean,

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Well, of course. Well, not of course because  I I mean the foreign policy leadership that. I've grown up with and that I know personally,  that's not even in the top five. Well, these. are people that they want to play toy soldiers.  That's a whole that's the the neoliberal order, the the neoconservative order. I think neo I think  we we focus too much maybe on neocons and the. neoliberals who have probably done as much or or  more the if you look at the Biden foreign policy. poking you know poking Russia and moving NATO  east that was all neoliberalism and they they're.

just too rich I guess and bored and and want  to play checkers and chess with other people's. lives but the the Trump view was that we're we're  starting from the American position gas prices. are down oil from Venezuela like we need it. We  have a deficit that we're never going to pay back. Like if you if you take a step back and you just  embrace it all, you you so people always ask me.

how I feel and I go, "Well, I I go from optimism  to despair in in a split second because if you. if you look at the national debt, we're not going  to pay that. There's no way to pay it back. It's. impossible. There's no there's no way to pay it  back. So then what happens? Do we hyperinflate our. currency? Do we fault on our debt? Trump is going  to try resource extraction. So we get Venezuelan. oil. We drive down costs here. We get cheap energy  here. Well, apparently AI will lead to maybe some.

kind of deflation. Who knows? People have their  own opinions on that. That's still being hotly. contested. And in that way, imperialism can be a  win-win because the Venezuelans can be better off. we extract our share of it. Maybe maybe that's  utopia and maybe that's pie in the sky. But that. answer table set the the I mean the other answer  is more the other answer is like dude Charlie Kirk.

was assassinated. Charlie some guy was just at  JD Vance's house in Col or Cincinnati banging on. the window maybe shooting at it. All the details  aren't there. the the alternative is it's a it's. like a bolevik revolution. The alternative is  anarch tyranny, which is what we already have. under the democrat rule. And it's that's really  bad. The the the the alternative if if we don't if. we don't fix it, you're going to have more class  resentment. We do have a a neo bullshick movement.

in the United States unabashed Marxist. When the  Maduro thing happened, it was interesting. You saw. the Brandon Johnson, Chicago's mayor, mayor Karen  Bass who was in Africa while the Palestinians was. burning. She was taking some kind of vacation  mandami and they're all sort of with Maduro. So you have this global Marxist movement which is  you know the red green alliance which gets tossed. around. But some of the stuff these guys saying  the think tanks have actually if you read into it. enough I think a lot of that really is accurate.  So you have this red green alliance of third world.

thinking with neoabolsheism or Marxism however  people want to characterize it and they do not. have a a good plan for the US. They want to they  want to loot it. They want to destroy it. They. have a deep hatred for whatever reason of white  people. White people of European descent are just. absolutely hated hated by all all of these forces.  though and not just by them by the neocons we.

don't hate Europeans too for some reason I'm not  exactly sure why but um Christians I feel like. kind of everyone I mean that is my frustration  with all this talk of anti-semitism which I. oppose speech saying why I oppose it on Christian  grounds I am sincerely opposed to anti-semitism. and racism and hating anybody on the basis of his  blood I'm just opposed to it against my religion. but like the main form of institutionalized hate  is not anti anti-semitism. It's anti-white hate. in the United States. And like why does nobody  say that? Well, the affirm I mean I remember.

with police and fire hiring that was in the  80s where if you're a white male, Adam Croll. had talked about that before, but he tried to be  a firefighter of course and they just said, "Well, you're you're you're a white man." How about JP  Morgan? Same thing. It's in every part of American. society. So yeah, the the white man has been  the white man. That's a funny way of putting it, but white men have been hated for decades and  they've been the world's punching bag until of. course you need a Delta Force mission. They post  a picture and it's all jacked white guys with a.

few Latinos and always has with tattoos and and  you think, well, these the the whole generation. was was hollowed out and you you just do not see.  And for me, that's a limous for 2028 is anyone who. runs for president but won't specifically condemn  anti-white hate by name is not even in the mix. Well, JD Vance just did that. Not even the you're  not even in the mix because if you could you see.

Ron Dantis saying calling out anti-white hate by  name? Dantis is an interesting I I think he would. have three or four years ago. Yes, I totally  agree. He his evolution his evolution has been. he lost he lost um he needs to listen to people  like Christina Pushaw more and I agree the the. problem I noticed a lot of people get sucked  into donor world they go they get in the West.

Palm Beach they get around the richies and I' I've  seen that happen to a lot of people is you just. you cannot spend whether it's the tech guys or the  finance guys the West Palm Beach people Silicon. Valley People can't spend too much time around the  Richies, man. They're uh I totally They're They're. not They're not living in reality. They have all  these weird pet projects that don't have any kind. of connection to downstream reality. Yes. They're  gibbon out of touch and they they're going to.

they're going to steer you aside. You have to just  stay with you have to just stay with the people, man. You got to stay with the people. So  Ken Griffin is not a reliable bellweather. of American public opinion. He bought this like he  bought this uh I think Tyrannosaurus Rex fossil or. something for $75 million. Yeah. People who people  who are like I have so much money that I just. want a dinosaur fossil or dinosaur skeleton in my  atrium might might not be the people you want to.

take political advice from. No, probably the last  people. So do you think Dantis is obviously going. to run in the primary? I think D Santis Cruz it's  going to be an open field because there always is. because that's how they get media time and sell  books and everything. But the what do you think. it'll look like the the table the table the table?  Well, one is it depends if we get it depends what. happens in the midterms and how many impeachments  Trump's gets hit with if they can't keep the.

midterms. Although Elon's back in the game,  so maybe maybe Republicans keep the midterms, but the House I think they if if with Elon you can  with Elon's money you can. And it's just that's a. sad thing to say, but that's just again that's may  maybe like that's where it goes back to like I'm. an I'm a a pragmatist, not an idealist. Get money  out of politics. Okay, well that's nice. Um, no, we need to get we need to basically B like it's  funny because I all my friends are pro Israel. basically and my advice to them is has been  like a singular one. You need guys you need.

to just calm down because the anti-semmites  are so moronic right now to just let them. talk because everything they say is offputting  to anyone with a high IQ but if you come with. ranker then that's just you're you're muddy in the  field. And I go to is just be like Steven Miller. Steven Miller likes Israel a lot, wants Israel to  prosper and everything, but when people think of.

Steven Miller, all they think about is this guy's  amazing. You know, like Steven Miller wakes up. trying to do things for America. And then if you  do that, we don't really care what Israel does, or at least I don't. Um, most of us wouldn't or  or there would be certainly less rancor around it. And if they would just fund things like then  everybody would be better off. So Elon, he just. writes huge checks. And if that side wrote bigger  checks for Republicans to just be Republicans, that's what that's what I've been telling him.  It's like look, you're going to get 80 90% of.

what you want. If you just keep Republicans in the  House, you're going to get that. The alternative. for you guys is AOC and Mandami and all these  other people versus people like me who are just. realistic and and pragmatic about it and and  people like JD who's like who's the same thing. You just he's a pragmatist. You got to accept that  you you just got to accept that not everybody is. going to be an ideologue about it, but you can  still win without people being ideologues. You can.

win which is good old good oldfashioned alliances  where you help out, you pitch in. You don't see. the Trump coalition is so broken, so fractured cuz  I do think the neocons are intentionally breaking. it cuz they want to keep JD from becoming I I  don't think it's working though. I mean, I'm an. old head. I'm an old head from 2015. This is all  a repeat of 2015. It's a repeat of the Dantis when. he ran in the primary. Same talking points at  the same people playing the same kind of games. So, I don't um I just see it as this is the third  season of 20, you know, 2015, 2022, 2023, and.

now now it's back again. So, I don't see it. And  the the way the politics lines up on this stuff, especially in like 2028, is you got to look at  it as the there's just not a there's the problem, you know, I got to I always want to be careful  what I say is that not cuz I'm like afraid of.

being cancelled because I've been I mean I've  been through the ringer a thousand times, but the they have the people who really see Israel  as a key issue just need to understand that, hey man, you're going to get like most of what you  want, but if you take take it so that we can't win. in 2028 with a Republican because you create so  much acrimony and division and suppress the vote, then you're going to get a bad Democrat. You're  going to get a bad Democrat and you're going.

to get maybe a bad Democrat Congress. So, people  need to not not behave in this kind of way. That's. because it's not helpful. I just think of things  like politics. Am I being am I being helpful to. the country and I being am I being helpful for  2026 and 2028? And I think that's how everybody. needs needs to view the map. Like are you are you  being helpful? Like are you going to get what you. want if you continue to behave this way? You  don't need to be an economist to see what's. happening. The dollar is in trouble. It's getting  weaker. It's sad. But we're not in charge of it.

So we have to respond appropriately in ways to  protect our families. When paper money dies, it's going to be replaced by programmable  digital currency or gold. Gold survives. The same Americans who think they're protecting  themselves with gold are the ones getting ripped. off by big gold dealers. After we left corporate  media, we got offered tens of millions of dollars. to promote gold companies. How do they get  the money to spend that much on marketing. cuz they're scamming their customers. We  didn't want anything to do with that. So, we sought an honest broker. And together, we  formed a precious metals company that you can. actually trust. It's called Battalion Metals.  At battalion metals.com, we publish actual spot.

prices. We're totally transparent about the vig,  what we take, and we treat everyone with honesty. So, if you've been watching what's happening,  you know, it's not just about money. It's about. sovereignty and holding something that endures  and cannot be manipulated or taken from you. So, if you've been waiting for the right time to  act, this is it. Visit battalionmetals.com. Well, it depends what you want. So if you run  around calling people Nazis, the chance that.

you're going to convince them to become Nazis is  pretty high. I mean, that's just very obvious if. you're doing that. And so maybe they want more  Nazis. There there's a there's a segment of. people, but I it's it's much smaller. The That's  the I mean, it's a loud segment. it it's well if. you want if you want um if the incentive structure  is different. So if you're in media and you want.

to maximize a certain kind of salesunnel where  they get as many people as they can, as many. eyes on them that they want to be acrimonious and  they want to throw bombs because that that's the. business, right? But if you're more political, you  want to think about like how's how is this going. to help us achieve an agenda, right? How how is  this going to help the country? How is this going. to help them get what they want? That that's what  I'm trying to see. I'm just trying We had this.

alliance that won in 2024, the popular vote, which  I knew Trump was going to win. We have mutual. friend actually. I'll tell you I'll tell you when  when we stop um when we stop filming. But he was. so blackpilled about the election, right? And  I said, "No, he's going to win. We'll know that. night. He's going to Trump's going to win. We're  going to know that night." He goes, "Crazy." I go, "I promise you. promise you and election night  has like well who hold everybody. The only thing.

I didn't see is I didn't think we were going to  win the we you know I didn't think Trump was going. to win the popular vote. So we have this alliance  we have Maha you have the OG like MAGA people the. you know the wild energy they brought in there was  always this boisterous male energy but then they. brought a bunch more of that in. Then you had  the the post October I don't think Trump wins. if October 7th doesn't happen to be honest and I  said this at the time because when o when October.

7th happened they realized oh this is this is what  the left really is right and I do think a lot of. them weren't a lot of the pros really people were  not paying attention to what the left kind of had. become and because I remember I would talk about  the red green alliance and people's eyes would. sort of like glaze over like let's you know that  sounds stupid And so you have you have the post07. people, you have the they don't want their kids  trans, you have maja, you have the nationalists, you have the populace, you get the tech  guys, you get the wealth tax guys. So it's.

a it's a coalition and everybody the rappers, the  Salvadorans, the you have the rappers, you have. the the Venezuelan, the Cubans, and it's a it's a  political coalition that has to be kept together. And I think every coalition partner needs to to  look out for others and some coalition partners. can push for themselves more and and lose sight of  things. So in my opinion, you know, foreign policy. and everything else has gotten too much attention.  Maha hasn't gotten enough attention. RFK Jr.

has sort of done done what he has. The domestic  issues, there's only so much Trump can do because. judges are blocking him. But that that's another  concern of mine is that domestic issues are. getting blocked and then that's going to create  fractures in the coalition. But I do think the. can can I ask though if you I'm I'm the reason I'm  have such like a tepid not interesting response to. what happened two days ago is cuz I think it's  like a pivot point in history and I don't fully.

understand what it means. So I don't want to get  over my skis until I have a better sense of what I. think it means. But um it is a totally new way of  conducting diplomacy/form policy/military action. Like this is a new thing because Trump didn't  dress it up with a lot of lying about democracy. or human rights. He's like no we want the oil and  like this guy's bad and we're taking him out and. we're going to run it. Never no one alive has seen  anything like that before in the United States. So you wonder, and that's why I'm saying I think  we're for good or bad fully in the empire stage of.

civilizational development. The Republic stage  is over. No one cares about Congress. So no, just like don't we care about the Roman Senate.  I wonder like how long until that same governing. style applies to domestic policy where we lived  it. We lived it, man. Like we lived under Biden. Well, you're right. Will you flesh that out? Like  people forget we lived in like people like me. lived in hell. Ricky von was a I I remember when  Douglas Mackey was arrested raid in Florida chased.

down with guns. I felt all these court cases of  the the Blacks for Trump guy was chased down by. unidentified FBI agents. They just started chasing  him down with a gun because they obviously wanted. to initiate a shootout and gaslight him into  a shootout. We thousand plus J6ers, people who. committed at most misdemeanor trespass around. We  we lived under anarchco tyranny. Lake and Riley's. murdered. We have murders happening. LA is again  anarot for those who don't know cuz you don't live.

on Twitter. Thank God. God bless you. Is you know  I think I forget who coined the phrase the the. name escapes me but you would know. And the idea  is that if you're a law-abiding citizen, you live. under a state of tyranny where you're going to  need a jaywalking ticket. That's right. But there. can be a homeless encampment right next to the  don't walk sign, but you're the one who's going to. get the ticket while the encampment's there. And  that's that's what we we lived under an imperial. dictatorship where everybody was just like oh yeah  like when like have you talked to you had have you.

had like you talk to the kids yet and everybody  Charlie Bobic everybody had that conversation with. the kids which is like hey just so you know like  daddy might be taken away for a couple years and. you know he's going to go away and if anybody  like shows up don't do anything uh you know. cuz they might try to shoot you they might want  to put a flashbang grenade in in the house they. might want to kill your kids in front of you.  When when they raided Michael Cohen's house, even though, you know, Cohen ended up turning  what they did to him was was just disgraceful.

They were going through his daughter's iPads in  front of him. This is wicked spousy stuff and they. just didn't get really any media coverage because  of course I didn't even know they did that to No, no. That's one reason I think Cohen sort of  sort of broke him. They just took all the. iPads out of the little kids' room and they  were just like taunting him. They threatened. to send Don Jr. to prison for the rest of his  life for he didn't do anything. John Eastman, a respected member of the bar, constitutional law  professor, disbar in California. Jeffrey Clark, great career in law, big law. Kirkland and Ellis,  they're trying to take his law license in DC.

One one thing after another and it got almost no  coverage and no attention because the media would. cover downplay it or they would they would lie  about it. And that was that was like the world, dude. Like I've had that conversation with my  kids. They're too young to understand. Like I. remember like cuz I don't have any money. like I  have no money and people are like well you know. why don't you have any money it's like my family  has all my money because I know that I could just. be stripped of everything any day even you know  even now that if you're a target of the regime.

you could just like wake up you're like okay  well I guess I'm [ __ ] and but on the other. hand you're just like my god how have I been  boiled in the pot for this long that I've just. accepted that is is the norm and I think that's  something that is is a problem with all of us. is we're just we just took it for grant like oh  Charlie Kirk I remember Charlie Kirk get shot I. remember Pobic calls he's like dude they killed  Charlie everybody thought they would just kill.

somebody else first but everybody knew they were  going to kill somebody everybody knew it this is. how we live our life like I live my life knowing I  could be killed any day I live my life under Biden. knowing well you know I could any day anything  any day something could happen I know every day. that I wake up just to a [ __ ] show of false.  It doesn't it just doesn't matter that that's. the way that you live. And as as like [ __ ] up  as it is and and the reason our people, I think,

don't talk about it is you just you have a certain  nobility, a stiff upper lip, you don't want to. you don't want to sound like a victim. But that's  exactly right. That's not it's not like nor it's. like it's a weird it's like enraging in a way like  no this is not how it's supposed to be in America. where you know that any given day like you you  might be taken away from your children because. of of politics and because of how rotten and and  corrupt everything is. I I couldn't agree more.

Obviously I live a life exactly like the one  you described. On the other hand, I think it's. essential to cling to your nobility and refuse  to become a victim and refuse to act like Seth. Dylan or whoever like constantly talking about,  "Oh, the threat's against me. People are mean to. me." Come on. You know, you chose to be in this.  Just man up. He did, but he shouldn't have to. No, I look I agree. No one should threaten Seth Dylan.  I I'm totally opposed to threatening him or anyone. else. Just saying like talking about yourself  is the That's our pro But that's our problem, though. See, that's the that's how they  got us in this catch 22, which is well,

nobody can complain because we're, you know, manly  men and we take it off the chin. We don't we don't. complain. But then they get away with everything  and people go, "Wait a minute. you had to say like. I think that most people if you told them oh yeah  like I remember when I was when Douglas Mackey got. wrongfully arrested and charged for a crime he  didn't commit and it's been proven now he didn't. commit the crime that I remember sitting down  with my kids and I go hey kids I just you know.

want to let you know um you know talk to my wife  hey like you know here's your money here's where. the money is you know it's all in like your name I  don't have anything and tell my kids hey kids like. they might take daddy away like the bad guys might  come and get daddy and you know it'll be okay and. everything dude that if we don't talk about it  then nobody knows right right so but we're like. well I don't want to [ __ ] cry I'm a real man  I'm a d it's like great and then nobody knows and. then people get like wait a minute John Eastman  a distinguished law professor wrote a memo that.

wasn't even acted on he just lost his life lost  his position at Chapman his standing in the world. even his law license his ability to like earn a  living this is like this is what is happening. So we do need to [ __ ] more to be honest. That's  our problem. That's the exploit in whatever our. DNA is or whatever our operating software is or  whatever our genetics is. That's our exploit is. we just sort of you just take the hits. You take  the hits, you endure the weight of life. Yeah. Dad. doesn't complain. That's what you do. And then  they're take and then they take our country and.

then they [ __ ] us up like one by one. though. I  remember like some guy showed up to Fentes's place. to kill him and then ended up killing somebody  else down the street, shows up, people are like, "Well, they didn't even know." Was like cuz you're  not supposed to talk about it. Like, and Fuentes, to his credit, I mean, I gave him a chance to  talk about it and whatever you think of Fuentes, but he did not marinate in his victimhood at all.  Yeah. Some Looney goes up to Cat Turn's house, tries to get him. They go after Benny Johnson.  They go after Seth Dylan. Candace Owens has had.

threats. Charlie Kirk gets killed. So I I think  it's there there's a way to to talk about these. and that's why so the Charlie Kirk thing really  was a frustrating thing for me because well I. mean it was a tragic thing, you know, like fresh  that sounds so like shallow. Um I I just thought. that people would realize they're they're like  they're hunting us for sport. All of us. Tucker, they're hunting you. If they could get Shapiro,  they would get Shapiro. If they could get Walsh,

they could get Walsh. If they could get Candace,  they could get Candace. And it ain't the Israelis. and it ain't the Jews that are doing it.  It's a violent feral terrorist, you know, bullshik left. And they would get all of us  if they could. So whatever acrimony we have, which is like I'm not a unity guy. I'm a guy who  likes, you know, likes the mix, maybe too much, but it's like, dude, they're going to kill us.  They're going to kill all of us. And we need to. figure out we need to figure out some kind of  way to coexist with one another. understanding.

that the threat against us is existential and they  would the the left if they could kill Seth Dylan. they'd be glad to kill him. If they could kill you  they'd be glad to kill you. To them that's just. another another notch on their ball or a point  on the scoreboard. So what's I mean what's the. administration doing about this? That I mean that  was that was my problem with the Trump's first. term is the political violence against Trump  supporter because again we're just supposed to. deal with it just deal with it was the completely  almost completely ignored during his first term.

Is it still being ignored under my definition it  is. Yeah. They're they're arresting some people. there. There's more happening than the first term,  but the the response is not what I would like. to see. So, the claim when Charlie was murdered  was that this was Antifa or some Antifa adjacent. uh person or organization. I don't I don't know  if that's true. I don't know anything about it. I I think it's absolutely true. Uh I don't know  that. But and I I don't have any other theories. I.

just I don't even understand the story. But but if  people said it was true. So like Okay. Where's the. roundup of Antifa? So they're uh Sorry, you got a  dog sneezing right there. That's good. Go get the. good puppy. So the No, I'm I'm a I mean I think  it was Tyler Robinson. I think a 22-y old man on. a mission is a very dangerous thing. and that it  I I think that there were other people in those.

Discord servers and there were people tweeting  something big is going to happen tomorrow and. after tomorrow Charlie won't be around anymore.  So, I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem. to be much interest in May maybe those people  were just guessing or maybe they were trolling, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in  finding out who those other people are. Why do you. think that's Well, it doesn't make any sense to  me. I I I always I always go back to the Garland, Texas mass shooting, which is to me, this is like  the skeleton key of it all. So, Pamela Geller,

who's very much uh pro-Israel, about as hardcore  as you can be on the issue, did a draw Muhammad. contest and there was going to be a bunch of other  people also like very pro- Israel and a jihadi was. going to shoot the place up. the he it was Texas  and he got taken out but by accident of faith an. accident of fate a local law enforcement officer  pulled over an FBI agent who was fleeing the scene.

got the guy's phone and the the text message to  the jihadi said tear up Texas sounds unbelievable. it's 100% true grassly has asked for information  twice from Ray and Garland has been stonewalled I. don't know why Cash Patel won't release it I've  asked everybody up as high up the food chain as. you can get why we can't get it and and what's  the answer? My my belief is that there's that MK. Ultra never ended. Co- Intel Pro MK Ultra was of  course the mind control experiments they conduct.

on people where the the book Chaos covered this  in great detail for people who are curious about. that about the Charles Manson murders. The Manson  murders and then there was that Air Force guy who. was drugged up and killed somebody and that didn't  even make sense and I didn't even know about that. That book was completely mind-blowing. And I do  think they still have whatever armor that is, whether that's within the FBI or some other dark  sight within the intelligence community. I I'm.

certain that that that still exists. So because  of that, you don't get you don't get you're not. going to get any information about that because  I do think there would be some kind of dark op. because what a lot of people again, it's just  the title of the book shows the agenda. It's just. chaos. Get out get everybody afraid. Get everybody  panicked. Ushher in more surveillance technology. Usher in a surveillance state. Bring in an arot  tyranny where if you're law-abiding, everything. you do is monitored by flock and all these camera  traffic cameras. Everything you do is monitored.

But if you're a drug addict on the street, you  you have free reign. You do anything you want. And this was the Bolshevik method. There was a  Sultzeneian quote Alexander Sultzeneian quote. where it went I don't have the exact quote but the  substance of it was your punishment for having a. knife was different for the thiefs when you had  a knife it was terrorism when the thief had it. it was just his way of life and that's what we're  living under now with the modern anaroty so what.

do they have in common like why does this same  phenomenon reoccur yeah it's the the battle of the. The battle between people say good and evil, but  you would just say like logos and chaos. Logos, the divine order, the order of God, the unison  of people, the fellowship of people versus the. chaos and the acrimony, the evil of the the dark  one, Satan, demons, every religious tradition has.

a even dualistic religions or polytheistic  religions have chaos gods, right? So even if. you're not monotheistic, which I'm monotheistic  obviously, but everybody has had thosea the chaos. agents. So chaos is destroying the divine  order and the divine communion of people. So. you don't see this as political battles, but as  manifestations of a spiritual battle. It's Yes. The spiritual. Yeah. The political is what you  see. The spiritual is what you talk about and.

then people will make fun of you and say you're  crazy. I don't think they make fun of you anymore, do they? Much less. So they So you had a tweet  about this yesterday. I think here's your tweet. If you were a demon with dominion over the planet  and you wanted to increase the amount of human. suffering across the world, you would eliminate  the white population. Yeah. Yeah. That so you see. you see what's happening the the death of whites,  their mass massive contraction as a racial group.

globally. You see that as a manifestation of the  spiritual war. Ireland really is the Rosetta Stone. I think in all of this. I agree because you  can again even if right or wrong you could at. least rationalize oh Rhdesia was an evil apartheid  state and they had to give it over to Mugabi and. it became Zimbabwe but you know what they did the  right thing and had a bad outcome or South Africa. for that I don't agree with that but you could  there's a chain of logic okay they did the right.

thing that ended apartheid it led to a bad result  maybe they could have transitioned it better. but there's the A to B to C thing they're right  Ireland they were colonized by the the white Irish. were colonized by the white British. They were  starved. Their resources were plundered. They had. the potato they had the potato famine. They lived  like their churches were desecrated. Churches. were desecrated. They were an enslaved people. But  they have to be punished. Oh, I agree. Why do the. Irish, right? To me, that's when if people think  that tweet sounds crazy or any of this is crazy,

then you have to tell me why are the why do the  Irish have to paytally restitution? And that that. gives up the whole game. gives up the whole game.  So, this is a manifestation of the spiritual war, the destruction of whites. Yeah. And and then  why that is, I I don't know yet. I'll I'll still. unravel it. But you can't you can't deny it when  you look at Ireland and you look what is happening. be look what is happening globally. You look what  is happening in the US and and has been happening.

for decades. But again, that goes back to, well,  you don't want to talk about how you could be. killed any day and that's just something you  live with. And I just live with it knowing that. at any moment I could be gone, removed one way or  another. And how does that change the way you live. that knowledge? The you when you know when you  know it's like it's like momento mori. though the.

the arrogance or whatever the cuz I pretend to be  arrogant on the internet sometimes but people who. know me sort of find that kind of funny but the  there's a there's one there's like a deep weight. that you carry just a deep weight where you know  that what you do has consequences and you need. to really focus on doing the right thing. It has  consequences for yourself and the country because. if we do lose the amount of human suffering is  going to be immeasurable in the US and globally.

It's like it's an when you read about the  Halddemore, you read about the Cambodian genocide, you read about the the gulags, it's just a a  scale of human suffering beyond beyond human. understanding and we're the remaining bull work  against it. So you're you're just left with a. sense of like and then you're you're um like I  have I have a thing kind of a bit I do online. although it's really true is I have like I have a  war on fun. So you don't get to have fun. Like I.

don't get to have fun. That doesn't mean I don't  enjoy my life. It doesn't mean that I don't have. a cigar and mountain bike and do other things. But  I just I don't get to have fun. That's not in the. cards to me. I don't get to have fun. I have to  live like a serious person who knows that I could. be killed that my friends could be killed. In the  case of Charlie, a friend will be killed that even. people like Seth and them that I may not see eye  to eye with like they could get killed that any of. us that that could be killed on any given day. And  so in a way it's like being in it's not being in a.

combat zone in a way, but it it is a way of it is  a form of warfare. So I just I don't get to like. have fun. I don't I don't get to like goof off or  live. So it gives your life meaning in some ways. It give it gives your life it yeah meaning is a a  complicated subject but it gives your life a you. certainly have a purpose right where you know that  and and this is true of of everybody or how people. should live is what you do does have significance  and consequence and you do have to you do have.

to make it count that sounds I mean in some ways  worse but in most ways better than living without. that knowledge that it could end well That's the  meaning that's the meaning kind of paradox and I. think that's why some people called it the meaning  crisis and then before that Jonathan hate wrote a. book the happiness hypothesis and meaning is this  concept where if you chase meaning you can't find. meaning but you find meaning by living in a  certain way and then you go oh this is so like.

this is meaning so I give you I have these weird  it's like a hyper reality you just did a film on. this I should I should we're working on it yeah  we're in post we're yeah so a couple months So. yeah, explain this through that lens to me. Okay.  Well, the you know, you get when you get older, you want to do things that are interesting and  hard. And I think doing a movie on the meaning of. life is is about as about as hard as it can get,  right? And there so you would say like what is.

the meaning of life? which I've asked everybody  and you know people have their own answers but. sometimes it's good to sort of attack it from the  inverse which is what would be a meaningless life. a meaningless life would be all this suffering  of yourself and others all the human suffering it. was just the way it is we were just animals and we  were bred by some kind of alien species to harvest. gold and if people got harmed or genocided or  whatever that was just there's no reckoning at the.

end. That that to me gives me nightmares to think  there's no reckoning or no. So then you would say, well that would be meaningless. Okay, that's I'm  chasing whatever that is. So then you start to. think of meaning. What is that? Well, meaning is  is a communion with God is a catharsis. It's a. that whatever it was, whatever, you know, there's  a saying like the only way out is through. It was. like whatever this is that you're going to get  through it and there is a divine evening out of.

everything and that everything did have a point  and everything did matter and everything happened. for a reason not because you're a actor who  doesn't have agency but because it was part of it. was part of the rise like I got chunks taken out  of me there's no like there's you've had chunks. everybody has you know again we're not supposed  to talk about it because we're so you know macho. macho men but like I think I'm like sometimes I'm  just like dude I'm tired tired, man. Like it is. just like having to live like that, especially  under the Biden regime. I am the censorship.

regime where as an adult man, you can't even say  what you believe because your whole livelihood. could be destroyed. You might not be able to have  a bank account, right? That that was like the way. you kind of lived and you have chunks taken out  of you and to think that that was for nothing, right? like losing, which is how meaning ties  into I think the the political melee is losing.

would be the most meaningless thing in the world.  There's this painting somebody posted and I'm I'm. going to get it reproduced in in um oil painting  and it's of when the Bolshevixs took over the. palace at the Bolshevik revolution and it just  shows this it just fills me with this like rage. You're just staring at evil. And I I look at like  this is what losing looks like. Losing looks like. you're lined up next to your kids and they start  shooting you, but the kids don't die right away. So they bayon at your kids in front of you. That's  what losing looks like. And people people used to.

say, "Oh, Sernovich, you're crazy. That sounds  crazy." I remember they say that 2015, 2016. Oh, you're so hyperbole. Now everybody, that's  what losing looks like. Losing doesn't mean, oh, you're going to have a wealth tax and  you're have to pay a little bit more taxes. Losing is you are lined up in the basement and  they are killing your kids in front of you. That. that is what like losing is. Well, to me that's  meaningless to me that's the antithesis of like. whatever the meaning of life is. So the connection  between really meaning and what do you mean? Well,

I don't know. I mean the basis of Christianity is  this guy who Christians believe was God who came. down and then like got brought up on false charges  and tortured to death. But that he did that so we. didn't have to. He took on the burden of a lot of  people take the Christ martyrdom as some kind of. message that we should become martyrs. And I I  always say there's been one martyr. Christ died. on the cross. I ain't dying on the cross. I ain't  a martyr. Christ did that and he took on the sins.

of mankind. And he did that for us. I'm I'm not  I'm not here to to be crucified and take on take. on the sins of mankind. that that's not me. If  anything, it was it's almost it's almost like. uh egotistical to think that I should, you know,  that I should be a martyr and that that would be. that would be a way to go. So I I reject martyrdom  theology fully. Interesting. Yeah. So what so what.

is the meaning if the meaning is not getting lined  up against the wall with your kids? The meaning is. communion. Divine communion. Meaning is divine  communion. Everything is divine communion. the. interacting with God, interacting with God, and  then downstream the communion of people. So, I'll. have these moments of like hyper reality where I'm  like wrapped up in my own [ __ ] and oh, you know, what if I did this and you know, in your own  head and then I'm on the couch with my kids and.

there's just like a a moment of like stillness.  It never lasts. There's just like moment of like. stillness. Now, when you have four, it doesn't  last. No. Well, in my own [ __ ] [ __ ] up brain, too. You know, like a lot of, you know, there's a  lot of us, we make prisons of our own mind, right? Of course. And we the demons steal our joy. You're  just you're having a moment and then they're like, "What about this?" They're deep state coming for  you or you know, one one thing after another and.

there's just these moments of like stillness  and you this is what it's about. you know the. but that's a as because of our primitive brains or  whatever our problems are probably because we're. not in the Garden of Eden is we we just can't  maintain divine connection the monks can but. it's a great aesthetic I always get that word  wrong aseticism I always get that bad yeah I'm. bad with my noeticism and but they have it's a  constant effort you know that's why you know so. they're living on a pillar of salt or in a cave  yeah yeah and it's like the arrow prayer is like.

God you know Jesus Christ have mercy on me. I'm a  set. You know, you have to constantly be connected. with the divine and then lean into your heart  more to distract us from the egoism which but. you have to have some kind of egoism if you live  in the world. You can't just not participate in. the world. So there's this tension between divine  connection which means surrendering yourself to. the full presence of God, right? Versus, okay,  but I have to like pay my bills, dude. you know,

like I have to I have to make my way in this world  and you're those are constantly attention. But. then something and this is probably why there's  a more of a rise for like Eastern Orthodoxy and. and older religious religious traditions and  Christianity is the and and I love Protestants. So no no offense to the Protestants, but  Protestantism is very well it's very wasp waspish. is like by the book the Bible says this and like  here's the scriptures and it's very much of the.

mind Christian apologetics oh well you think  this is there the trinity and it's like arguing. back and forth but you're like existing in mind  whereas the eastern traditions and by eastern I. don't mean Hinduism but even though Hinduism has a  but eastern orthodoxy and eastern Christianity is. also about the the knowledge of the heart and the  tension that you feel every day like uh every day.

I'm I just feel a great spiritual tension where  I don't like if you ask me are you going to go to. heaven or hell I say I don't God help me. I don't  know. I don't know. Like are you a good person or. bad person? God help me. I don't know. I I don't  I don't know. I don't have a good answer to that. It makes it weird too when like people go at you  because you're just like I don't even know if I'm. going to defend myself. Maybe I you know maybe  I am you know like what am I am and and but you. can find a certain amount of meaning in that the  there's like a certain amount of meaning confusion. like maybe that's how it was supposed to be that  we are spirits and human bodies because the if.

you you know if you read your old philosophy  there's debate on mindbody dualism and there's. there's a sense that we've all had that am I  a body am I a mind well God we're both We're. like we are both we're a mind and a body and or a  spirit and a body and there's going to be tension. between this that we you know we wrestle against  the flesh and so maybe that's the right answer.

Maybe the right answer is to not be so sure that  you're right and that you're such a righteous and. holy person. And maybe the right answer is  I don't know. I honestly don't know. Well, humility is always the right answer. You're not  God. But you could be proud of humility. You know. there's a great of well of course Benjamin Frank  he's one of the best favorite writers and he said. he he would keep a list of the virtues and he  said I was I would he he said I I've achieved. all virtues but I found that I myself became proud  of my humility I realized like that was going to.

get me so so yeah the yeah so there is there is  like a meaning crisis because there that's why we. have the opioid epidemic yes we have people but  even people who are successful at drug overdose. or they blow up their family lives because they're  they're thinking, is this really all there is? Oh, I I did the right things. And so even if you end  up in a success, you're you're still having those. nights one day. Well, maybe especially and maybe  that describes the politics you were talking about. earlier where a lot of a ruling class is just  bored and let's let's hurt people just to shake.

it up a little bit. Yeah. A lot I think a lot  of them are driven by demonic spirits and those. people I think it's less of a less of a meaning  crisis and it's more of a like an evil an evil. animating force. Okay. So how do you recognize  that? What there's got to be a difference between. just being wrong which I have done many times  probably even today and being animated by an evil. spirit. The angel and demon on your shoulder.  Yeah. I mean, that's where the that's where.

the discernment that people talk about so often is  something that I I think about every you know. So, who do you who do you look at from afar and  perceive to be controlled by evil spirits most. I mean when I go to DC although it felt a little  bit but it felt like I had exorcism recently is. I remember you go to DC and you just feel you just  just like what is this? Yeah. What is this demonic.

place? This place is the playground playground of  the demons. The whole the whole place. The whole. place. Like just to name one person would be to  not do justice to the demonic forces at work in. DC. Even recently if you look in the Department  of Justice, have you ever looked at the occult. artwork in at DOJ? No. I'll show you some pictures  next time. DOJ. Next time you're at DOJ, go get a.

tour and go look at all the occult artwork. And  uh why is there a cult artwork at the Department. of Justice? That's it shows, by the way. That's  cuz it is because they take the they take their. religion seriously. We might not take our religion  seriously, but they take us seriously. The the. bad guys take their religion quite seriously. And  they have they have a religion. They have a god. Their god is in our god. Their god's the anti and  the inverse of our god. But they absolutely have. a religion. There a call artwork is everywhere.  The It's mortifying and when you when you get the.

tour, you can probably find the pictures online.  So that's what we're we're up that's what we're. up against. What's on the dollar bill? Yeah.  Well, the some of that Yeah. The cold symbolism. is a complicated one because like is we had um  Jonathan Pou and was interviewed for meaning and. I was like I'm like ever since with Iaska I'm  like obsessed with what does the serpent mean? Because under the kind of the mainline Protestant  understanding, the serpent tempted Eve. The.

serpent is bad. The snakes are evil. Serp  serpent's not good. It's more complicated. than that. So, and he's an Orthodox Christian. So,  he he wrote an article, the serpents of Orthodoxy, where he goes because there's there was a staff  with two serpents moving around there. You know, there's DNA. There was even before the the double  helix structure of DNA was discovered there was. two serpents wrapped around that sort of for sure  was understood. Um you know IA the cosmic serpent.

a lot of people see serpents and that you know  that's a whole other and you've seen serpents. while doing I felt felt it like moving through  me just like flowing flowing through me. Serpents. snake. Oh yeah yeah yeah. So that doesn't I mean  I'm I'm no shaman, but that doesn't sound good. Well, that's what sent you on these like quests.  So So we wouldn't be having this conversation if.

I cuz for one thing, you know, for Christians,  Iawaska is like strictly forbidden. So I don't I. don't want to seem like I'm glamorizing it in any  way, shape or form, but the there was I have gone. on multiple Iawaska journeys over the years and  for me it's been completely transformed my heart. It's transformed how I see my children. It's the  way the way I like interact with the world. It got. me interested in Christianity again because well  the thing is God can meet you wherever you are,

right? Which is why there is good and evil. So  it isn't to say there's no such thing as good and. evil. But God God can meet you wherever you are  and God God can go anywhere and meet you wherever. you are. So in my case, I was not someone who I  never had any kind of faith because I never felt. anything. I would I would go to church and I grew  up very Christian and I would like try to feel it. I was like what do these people have like there's  just not this just isn't it? What is it that they.

feel like? Is everybody in on something that I'm  not in on? Is everybody faking? Like I'm faking. because I don't believe anything. And that was cuz  I had no whatever whatever six sense people have. for God I didn't have. I didn't have the God gene.  And then I remember, you know, first time drinking. tea and being catapulted to the spirit world  and I was like, okay, the spirit world is real.

That's okay. That's not even up for debate now.  To the point where it doesn't even offend me. when people are atheists or don't believe in I  was like, well, I didn't believe in it either. I had to see it with my own eyes. You know,  Paul, he had to be knocked over and, you know, to blinded. Yeah. He had So, for me, that was  like my my Paul moment where I was like, okay, well, somehow I ended up here drinking tea with  no belief at all in God or the spiritual realm. at all. And now I absolutely know it's real.  and went, you know, went through a number of.

things and, you know, I don't know if you want to  go into all that, but I I do like why' you do I. in the first place for the wrong reason, which was  for the ride. You know what? Hunter Thompson said, "Buy the ticket, take the ride." Yeah. So many  people just sit around ruminating all day or. daydreaming all day. Maybe I'll do this, maybe  I'll this. I've always been a just buy the ticket, take the ride. What's it like? Buy the ticket,  take the ride. So I thought, well, I mean, I'd done a lot of things in life before and I  felt like I I felt like uh was pretty sure of.

myself that I knew how to live and was arrogant  in a lot of ways. And I thought, well, you know, I've done everything else. I might as well  just do Iaska. You know, by everything else, I don't mean drugs. I just mean like I was  so full of myself and my own ego that I just. thought I knew so much about life and I was such  a wonderful person that obviously I would just. do this because that's what people who are so you  know so great so great do right I'm so great I'll. just do this like other thing and it like broke my  heart broke my heart over and over again the whole.

night just like broke my heart and the so the way  the way it works is you're you know you drink the. tea and you just kind of like look around. Okay,  I think that's a mistake and then you sort of like. you you kind of like start to fall under and you  venture to the spirit world, but you don't it's. not like you're here and I'm walking around la I'm  in the spirit world. You're taken to a place where.

you have no free will. You have no power. You are  more insignificant than an insect on this world. and you start to journey and you know experience  all these things. So, so one I give you an example. cuz it's it's kind of hard to explain but I  remember like I'm drinking the tea and and and. sometimes you have like a little bit of a light  show when you when you go in you go into the. spirit world you hear like a buzzing sound like  bees and then you see like a little bit of light.

a little vapor on the side like and then you get  the DMT sort of light show that people associate. with a psychedelic experience that's the least  significant part of the night but a lot of times. you start to get the night show and you think,  "Oh, okay. I'm I'm into somewhere." But there's. a sense of like there's me and I'm in I'm into  something and you, you know, you go through there. and then you become completely disoriented. You  you wake up and you look, you know, where am I at.

first? Where am I? So, I remember I I woke up, I  go, where I look around because, you know, you're. laying down, you can't walk around, you're laying  down. I look up and I go, where am I? Where am. I? Where am I? I go, oh yeah, I'm Mike Cernovich.  And I'm in this place. I'm on this mat. And I got. dropped off. And then I walked in here and I saw  this person. And then I came and I drank the tea. Okay, cool. It's like you're reassuring yourself.  Close my eyes. Wake up. Where am I? Oh, I'm Mike.

Cernovich. I'm in this room and I came in. Oh,  yeah. I got dropped off. I'm doing an eyew. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. Close eyes. Wake up. I'm Mike  Cernovich. Where am I? Close my eyes. Wake up. I'm. uh Where am I? Wake up. What the [ __ ] Dead.  Dead. There is no eye. Dead. Dead. Ah. And as I'm.

falling down into like wherever I'm falling into,  I see like my kids surface and my wife's surface. And I was for all purposes dead. I was overwhelmed  with the feeling that I was dead. I was like, I'm dying. I'm dead. And there was no eye. I'm  There wasn't even an eye who's experiencing and. I'm dead. And then like all I could think of was  like, are my kids going to be okay? Is my wife.

going to be okay? Are people going to be okay?  How was that so foolish? How was I so foolish? How? How? I was so I I remember like when I funded  my kids like college fund. I was like, "Okay, like my kids are set. Like I can die, you know?  Like what do I need to be around for?" Like cuz. I grew up poor. Like then you learn that's your  own trauma and everything. I was like, "Okay, like my kids are good. My wife's good. Like  everybody's good, you know? Everybody's good. I got they're going be taken care of. Whatever  happens to me, you know, cuz part of this is like,

you know, knowing that you could be killed or or  framed any day. And I'm like, "Okay, everybody, everybody be okay." And I remember I'm dying  and I just heard a voice say, "You fool. You. fool. They're not okay. They're not okay because  of money because you set up money." Like, no, they're not okay. Where are What is wrong with  you? And I was just left with this sense of I. just I'm a fool and I live my life foolishly and I  can't believe that I was such a fool and I'm dead.

now. and it's like too late and then eyes closed  and I wake up and then I'm like puking in a bucket. like you know so they call like a spiritual purge  and I remember being like oh god I'm still alive. I'm still alive like looking around you know like  looking at this bucket like I'd never been you. know everybody's afraid of throwing up on Iaska  I'm like oh you will that will be the best part.

of the night that will be the you will be thanking  God that you're alive like th you know throwing up. in a bucket and I was like oh god I'm I'm alive  okay I'm alive and then but then that's just like. that was 5 minutes that was just 5 minutes and  then you like go back under and then it's like. another thing another catharsis like another like  time loop so I remember I remember I I get up and.

I I look around And there's this woman walking  around and she's carrying the buckets cuz you. know people are throwing up and everybody's sick  and you so you have kind of the the shaman guy or. facilitator and then you have like the helper and  that there's this person you know she's walking. around and she's carrying a bucket carrying and  I wake up and I look and I go oh there she is. carrying the bucket and then close my eyes you  come back up time loop. So time loop means like. I'm reliving this moment with you and I remember  reliving this moment with you but I'm like stuck.

in it like groundhog day time loop and that's  the first time it happened to me and that's a. real like mind [ __ ] So I get up and like, oh,  she's like carrying things. Okay, she's cleaning. up after people. And then I thought, you know, how  nice. Fall fall asleep. Wake back up. I go, man, look at she's like so helpful. And I couldn't  do that. Like I couldn't clean up after puke. on other people. I just I don't know how they  do this. And then I wake up and I'm in the time.

loop again. I'm like, what? What? Like why am I  in this time loop? you know, and like you start. to feel like you're going insane. Like, why am  I stuck in this time loop? And I close my and. I went up and he goes said, "You don't even know  her name. You never introduce yourself to her. You. didn't talk to her. You don't talk to people. You  just look through people. You don't get to know. people. You're so arrogant. This person is doing  something you could never do because you don't. have the humility. You're so You can never clean  up after other people. You don't give a [ __ ] You.

don't give a [ __ ] this and but you'd even like  look this person in the eyes and just say like. hey you know what's your name like how'd you how'd  you get here? You just came in here to drink your. tea selfishly like the arrogant prick that you  are and cuz you wanted to take the ride you know. you wanted to take the ride and you're just a bad  person. I was like what the [ __ ] you know? And. then so that was more or less my night and you see  demon at one point over and over again. Oh yeah,

that was so you can see de so you can see demons.  I remember being taunted. So that's what's weird. about it is it's like it's like scenes of a movie  with generally there's a catharsis. You don't. know. That's why they just say before you go in  they go the only way out through. You're like a. go [ __ ] yourself the only way out through. What  kind of [ __ ] is that? The only way out through. What the [ __ ] does that mean? You know, again,  that was my arrogance and my own delusion. And. that's true in life, though. Yeah. Yeah. And I was  just And you're like, what does that mean? Well,

it means that no matter how bad it is with the  Iawaska, I remember I would I would, you know, I would do mask and then I would open up the  mask and try to look around and a demon at. whatever it is entity says, "Oh, you think  you're going to open your eyes?" And it just. showed me like the most [ __ ] up things I'd  ever seen. people being tortured to death, killed, like horror, like The Road. Have you ever  seen the movie The Road? No. Like a cannibal,

like a horror film. And then it said, "Oh,  you think you can take your eye mask off, but you can't run? You're running from yourself.  You're you're trying to run from yourself, and you can never run for yourself." I like,  "What am I running from?" Then I'm like, "What. am I running from? What? What do you mean I'm Cuz  if you'd talk to me at that point in my life, you. would be talking to a very [ __ ] You would not be  talking to this person. You would be talking to a. person who's like, "Oh yeah, I got things figured  out, man. Like, I got things figured out and I.

can prove it. I grew up poor. I've had some things  happen that haven't been so good in my life. I've. had to navigate life with a bipolar mom. Power da  da da da da." Like, I know life. you talk to me. now. I'm like, I mean, I have ideas, you know,  things that I think are like the path forward, but that that person was just shown you are in  the spirit realm. You're nothing. You are nothing. and you're so arrogant. You're out here. You like  you have no power. So, it says you're running from.

yourself. And I was like, what am I running from?  And it goes all that success you chased and all. the whatever whatever it is I was trying to do.  They go that was just masking your heart your your. your the the trauma the trauma that you have and  that everything you're doing is just to mask that. I'm like well that's [ __ ] you know that doesn't  make any sense. So it's like okay cuz you're.

cuz you're and and by this I mean I'm you're  talking to a guide. So when I'm saying this, this is not like an internal monologue. This is  you're talking to something outside of yourself. It's like Dante's Infernal like the guide. And the  guide said, "Okay, you know, big mouth, you want. to argue like we'll just vortex you back in uh the  spirit realm." So then it's like you close your. eyes. That's why I'm like it's like end scene.  You're like, "Oh, you're like you're in like a new.

scene." And then it like it shows you something  from like when you were a child or maybe in my. case it was like something from when I was like a  child and it was remember was like it was showing. me it was showing me the house I grew up in and  I was like why is it showing me the h like my. house? I grew up in this like small shitty house.  I hated it. We had holes in the carpet. Like I was. embarrassed to bring people over. I was like why  why am I being shown my house? What? like, "I hate.

that [ __ ] house. I hate this [ __ ] house. Why  are you showing me this house?" And then it and. then like voice is like, "You had all the love in  the world in that house. Your dad loved you. Your. mom loved you. They did the best that they could  do." And you think that you can just like give. your kids money because that's your own thing, you  know? Like, well, you grew up poor. So, but it's. like you took the love for granted. you just like  you had all this love but you didn't have money so.

then that becomes your hang-up like oh do I have  enough and like well if my kids have enough what. do you need what do you need me for you know like  what's that for it was it was like all the love. in the world was in that house and you hated the  house and you like you didn't even know it I was. like oh [ __ ] you know so like I always loved my  dad and had a good relationship but I was like oh. my god like it was like and what was it like for  your dad to be poor like not know how to make a.

what was that like for him, you know, and you're  just like, "Oh, fuck." You know, like he was poor, too. You guys were just poor. That was like the  town lost the factory and people were jobless and. that just every kid's dad went through the same  thing. You worked at a factory and then you had. to find some other kind of shitty job and you kind  of find something else. And then eventually my dad. figured it out. By then I was like in high school  so it didn't really impact my life either way. And. then I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] I have all this I  have all these issues around money just in a way.

that's like traumatic, you know, not just in a way  that, you know, people need money to live and you. want to be greedy and but I like I had no idea and  I never would I never would have like reached that. conclusion emotionally." And then and then you're  like zooming out and it's just like oh it's like. there's like loves the the love of your family,  the love that God has for you. And then and I. was like, "Fuck." Okay. So then I close your eyes  like you wake back up and it's like look it was.

literally like a old grandfather or something like  something out of Gandalf or something and it's. like look and it goes it's like in a very calming  like masian voice it says it's not supposed to be. this way. And it was just like he was like doing  this. He's like it's not supposed to be this way. And I look and like like I said, I'm laying  down and I look and I see this Gandalf like. figure floating and like I was like, "It's not  supposed to be this way." I was like, "What's not. supposed to be this way?" And then he just showed  all the the light. It's like the lights are all.

separate now. You're supposed to be together. It's  supposed to be communion. It's supposed to be that. everyone's lo, you know, loving each other and you  just want to like kill kill each other. He goes, "This this is not how it's supposed to be." It  was like it was like a frustrated dad who was. like this is like this is not how it's supposed  to be. This is not how it's supposed to be. And. I was like oh okay you know this is so above  my pay grade you know I don't even know like. and that's how I know it's not coming from me.  I'm like if I could come up with stuff like this.

people would think I was a genius. You know this  is not my brain and I'm so smart. And then I like. go back under and then I come back up and I hear  this like scream and it was like the scream of an. enraged mom basically screaming at like the same  situation. So then, you know, it takes years to. put all this together and everything, but that  was like showing me the masculine, the logos,

and the the way like a father governs and then  like the rage of a mom and the children like are. not getting together and you know the tension of  the tension of male and female and then I like I. saw a old woman's face on a mountain. I was  like I don't even know where this is from. I. never read any books before this. And that's  Patcha Mama. So that's a different kind of. entity. So in that case, I saw like whatever  whatever patchcha mama was the, you know,

mother earth or whatever in paganism that people  describe it as. So I'm just going, you know, back. and forth between flashbacks to my life. Wait, so  you saw a demon that others identified a woman's. head in a mountain? Yeah. Yeah. Patchamama. I had  no idea. Yeah. I didn't I didn't do my research. before going in. So I'd know like I So what you're  saying is these are definitely not parts of your. subconscious that rose to the surface there. Yeah.  There unless it's a parabola. Our unconscious is.

you know there's a theory that that that our  unconscious is generating our experience in. real time but it's not it wasn't me. It wasn't a  book I read. It was cuz I was again like atheist. So every rationalistic argument they could say  well you probably just like no I never studied. Aztec culture and Indian culture. I didn't  know what Patchcha Mama was. And so there was. the they're like they're external entities. So the  the older figure you could say maybe well that was.

uh the guardian and you read Dante's Inferno in  high school, right? That was some thing in your. unconscious so that surfaced. But Patchchamama  and other kind of entities were not so beyond. my cultural understanding or or my my knowledge.  So yeah. So then you're going like you're going. back into that and like you go through it really.  I mean it's not a pleasurable there aren't a lot.

of Iawaska addicts, right? Is that true? And it's  not covered by Medicaid. No. No. They're they're. um which is which is a good thing because I I  I don't know. Um a lot of you don't want some. fly by night shaman or you end up with the wrong  situation. This is all in Mexico, right? A lot. of a lot of things can go bad. They're um they're  they're different areas. I South Africa I've done. it before. And how many times have you done it?  Nine 10 times actually. Mhm. Yeah. They're um Oh,

yeah. There it Because it just you go in and the I  had a lot of I had a lot of I mean like I had a I. I had a lot of things that I had to beat out of  me. I used to like just like where earlier were. talking about how you you know a certain amount  of stoicism we all have which like I think is. good and I think therapeutic culture goes too far  where you don't want to sit around and like talk. about how bad it was being a kid but a lot of us  and I learned this dealing with a lot of a lot of. veterans have done plant medicine I don't know if  you've seen in waves in war yet with Ambber Marcus.

Mone u Capone Amber Marcus Capone they're amazing  so you have all these vets who were suicidal. And then they a lot a lot of them do I gain they  go down to IBA gain clinic that's what vets is a. charity I've sponsored or um donated to you know  for a number of years and vet solutions and so. with me the you you realize that like a lot of  what we do that we think of as virtuous is trying.

to we're trying to hide something from ourselves.  We're trying to make it so that we can't be um. vulnerable. And so with veterans especially, they  they you know they find out a lot of things have. happened when they were kids and that's why they  became the men they were because you're driven. by the sense that like I'll never be weak and  powerless again. I'll never be weak and powerless. again. Which that's a good thing. You shouldn't  be weak and powerless. But if you have all this.

other stuff underneath that, then maybe you don't  love your kids the way you're capable of. Or maybe. you're afraid to love your kids and wife the way  you are because maybe you're you are afraid to. be hurt. And that's another aspect I think where  therapy c therapy culture has taken things too far. where you're like, "Oh, let's like talk about our  trauma like all day and relive things." Whereas. no, like but maybe for a weekend, you know, maybe  spend a weekend and talk about it and figure it.

out then and and work through it. Don't you don't  have to like live it. So, I just I had so many. lessons on how how I was just a fool. Basically,  I was just a fool. Well, that sounds amaz. That's the big debate, right? Saraphim Rose wrote  a book, The Soul After Death. So, if you talk to. Josiah Trenum, he would just say, "Well, this is  demonic and this pharmarmacia." And absolutely,

you like absolutely not. That wouldn't that's  kind of my instinct. That wouldn't even be a. debate. Yeah. Would there's there's really like no  debate to be had. And my my position is I always. warn people away from it because it's a monumental  undertaking. It's not just something that oh yeah, we'll go eat some shrooms and go take a hike  in nature, right? It's not in the same world. and a lot can go wrong and it can disrupt a  person's life. Well, I've seen that. Yeah.

too with with uh people's lives being destroyed  by heavy duty holistic like in what way? I had a. friend who killed himself um was from LSD but  you know Yeah, wrecked relationships. Yeah, LSD LSD is poisonous. they they can cause a lot of  issues and the that's why it's more more or less. like if you're the like the guys especially that  vets and and Amber and Marcus and them work with.

these are guys that are going to kill themselves  and they're alcoholics most likely. We're not. we're not talking like oh I'm living like life is  great and I'm living in a state of love. I'm going. to go drink I was this weekend. Right. It's more  like or in my case where you're just being pushed. there because I was living in such a state of  folly and delusion. Yes. That there there was like. no other way. So in my in my belief I think God  pushed me there. I think I think it was God and he.

showed me this is the only way that I can show you  that you are just not who you think. You are just. a delusional fool and this is the only way that  we're going to get through to you. Yeah. And the. message like got through and then you know I have  drank and you know had more teeth since then but. it's not something that I that I do regularly. So  what about the threat though of the demon entering. you? You said you had serpents inside you. I  should just say I believe you. But I mean the.

consequences of being I mean the first missionary  trip Jesus sends the disciples on all he says is. cast out demons. The whole New Testament's Jesus  casting out demons. The disciples casting out. demons. Like that's completely real in my opinion.  Yeah. and the and but the consequence of living. my I was probably demonp possessed before the  Iawaska cuz I was so I'd been deluded by dark.

forces into thinking that I was something that I  wasn't. Yeah. So in in my view it isn't where oh. I was such a holy person. In my mind I would  have I would have thought I was. Yeah. No, it's like the opposite where like whatever I was  before that, I'm not that way now. And whatever. path I'm on is like about God and and Christianity  and like trying, you know, finding more love in. the world and divine communion and just knowing  that you're just not like a you're just not a.

paycheck to your kids, you know. And I didn't even  treat him like I was just a paycheck, but it was. just some it was I would just it was a glibess  that I had. So it's just the the the Iawaska has. just burned out all the glibness that I had where  I can't even laugh at things sometimes. I'm just. like I just that's just not funny. In a way I'm  like too serious. It's like why are you laughing? It's a very non-American approach to this is just  not funny. Trump is so fun. I don't care. [ __ ]. fun. I hate fun. What do you mean fun? We don't  get to have fun on this world. Fun. You want to.

have fun? What are you a little kid? Right.  So it's it's driven it's driven all of that. out of me in in a way that I couldn't have reached  intellectually. So how does it make you feel about. death? It may well I know there's a judgment. I  don't think there's a judgment. I know there's. a final judgment for sure. Really? So for me it's  not even I think you're right. But what convinced. you of that? Cuz I just was in the spirit world. I  saw my divine judgment and my divine judgment was.

hell. you know, that was that was like my divine  judgment. And so, one is I just I know there's a. final judgment to the point where when people say,  "Oh, you're whatever crazy or whatever." I don't. even get offended. I'm just like, "Brother, I was  that was me. I was you. I was you before this. So, how can I be upset with you for thinking this  when that was what I thought before then?" So, like, I know there's a final judgment. I know the  accounting is in the human heart. It's not in the.

words. It's not in what you say. It's not in how  holy you can be and how you can tell everybody. else they're not holy and you're, you know, you're  Mr. Holier than thou and everybody else is a. sinner. It's you're this the human heart is going  to be weighed and measured by God. In my opinion, it's Jesus Christ. And you know, in my opinion,  it's Christianity and Jesus Christ. But I'm but. I'm not a um I'm not into the apologetics where  we argue and mind all day about like what it is.

I think the human heart's going to be weighed  and that's something that that God's going. to determine at the judgment. I know that I'm  accountable for everything. And I know having. died like for all purposes like I have died.  I have died. And I know that when you die, the only thing you're going to think about is the  people you left behind. So all of this materialism.

and oh no somebody I'm I'm being picked on today  on the internet or I'm being cancelled again or. this and that like none of that came up. Actually  one one funny thing that came up was during one of. my journeys. I was like I was under and I saw some  things and it came up and it goes whatever it it. whatever that's what I mean. I don't know what  it is. I still don't understand it. and said, "You know how blessed you are that you've been  like like attacked and everything?" They go, "You. can talk about anything." That's right. Doesn't  matter. People are just like, "Oh, wow. Certainly.

talks about Iawaska. We [ __ ] knew he was crazy  anyway." You know, like this is probably the least. crazy thing that he's like said all week. Whereas,  if I were more of like legitimate and respectable, then I would have to think, well, how's this  going to play? How's this going to play? Should. I talk about this? Should I tell Tucker? Are  people going to clip this up and make fun of me? What is this going to impact my standing with the  administration and all the serious people in the.

world? Are they going to None of that comes up.  All that came up was are are is my family going to. be okay? That's the only thing that I could think  about. So then you go from there. Well, are they. have you loved them? Do they know you love them?  Do you tell them that every day? Are you saying. your prayers like every night cuz tomorrow's  not promised. I could be in a car right now, flip over and die in a second. People die all the  time in a second. We take it for granted. Charlie. Kirk is dead. Charlie Kirk is dead. And that hurt  me too. That hurt me bad. I haven't cried so much.

in the past 3 months in my whole life. And I  don't care to admit I've cried about it. You know, I think that's a problem people have is, oh, you  know, we don't it's like I don't know whatever. a real man is. I think I'm pretty pretty high up  there. And I've been crying more in the past few. months than I have my whole life combined. And you  realize like Charlie just died. He just went and. went to work. He's dead. His kids don't see him.  They're not with them at Christmas. We're on the.

internet arguing about [ __ ] Tyler Robinson.  And was it the massage or was it the Charlie's. kids? They don't have a Christmas with them  anymore. They don't have a Christmas with them. Erica goes home to an empty house and then she  goes on the internet and everybody's just saying. the worst things in the world about her. She's  not even my friend, but she's a mom. There's. the worst things in the world about her that and  they had Christmas without their dad. What's that. like? What's it like to have Christmas without  your dad? A lot of people go through that. So, do my do my kids know this might be our last  Christmas together, but I'm going to be here. I'm.

going to try to make it home, but if I don't make  it home, you know I loved you. You know I love. you. You know that you're my world and that I'm  obsessed with you. And they never for a minute, they never for a minute have to wonder what  like does dad love us? Does dad, you know, is dad good to us? No, nobody at my life. I text  my friends the most dopiest [ __ ] you know, like love you, man. Just thinking about you. Just  thinking about you. I never never did that before. Just the dopiest like most sentimental stuff  that you can imag hope you're okay. How how.

like think about all your friends you have. All of  us have these man friends. We're also, you know, mainly man. When's the last time somebody just  like, "Hey, bro. I hope you're okay. Just thinking. about you. That's nothing. I'm not uh not poetry,  but I just Oh, I haven't talked to this guy in a. couple months. I'm sure he's doing fine. Maybe  he's not doing fine, though. Maybe he's not. Why. do we think everybody's doing fine? Well, right.  Why? Why? Fair. That's our delusion. That's the. f that's the fallacy. Everybody the the folly.  We're everybody's doing fine. And then you don't.

reach out and they go, "Oh, I wish I'd have seen  it coming." You know, maybe you would, maybe you. wouldn't have. So I think I meditate on death.  I think about every day. Every day I meditate on. it and it gives me a sense of of calming if that  makes any sense. That's exactly right. Avoiding. death is what makes you neurotic. Facing it makes  you calm, gives you peace because that's the root. of all fear obviously is the is the fear of dying.  The fear of death and the fear of status and the.

fear of the the egoistic attachments that we ought  to our names, our reput affect your relationship. with your wife? Uh, just like I'm like obsessed  with my wife. Like I'm just a s for my wife, which if you you'd have to ask her, but I don't  know that she would have said that was true, you know, or maybe necessarily like early on.  Like all I think about is my wife and kids. Like. like if I make money, like I don't even care. I  just like get rid of it, you know? Get get it to.

them. Like what? People are like, "Oh, aren't you  worried about your wife like leaving you or your. kids?" I'm like, "I don't care. I I mean I really  like I don't care. I I You mean signing all your. money over to your wife? Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean  I did the right thing. No, there's a lot of peace. in that too. Totally. It's like you're going to  get blood from a turnup. Come after me and it. you're going to be very very disappointed when you  start tip me upside down and maybe you get a few. quarters out of the pocket. So, it's made me just  as completely like obsessed with her and the kids.

It's made me like I've gotten much nicer  even online than I used to be, you know, because you just think so much of it is I'm  not perfect, you know, cuz people can I mean, my god, not even I'm not I wouldn't  even say I'm good, let alone perfect, but you just realize like maybe that guy's just  having a bad day, you know, the guy cut you off. That's right. I'm mad. I'm honking at him. Oh, I'm  going to fight. Maybe that guy's kid's dead, dude. Maybe his kid is in the hospital and now I'm just  adding so I'm always about like I don't want to.

add to the trauma burden of the world. What what  like who knows what other people and that doesn't. mean I'm going to let people walk all over me and  everything but who knows what people are going. through man. You you just like you never know.  So I think I think about that all the time. Like. I don't have like I don't have any doubts that my  kids know where we stand, my friends know where we. stand. the people who aren't my friends know where  we stand because I don't have time for like fake.

love and fake pleasantries and everything. It's  either like re like it's real or it's not. It's. not real. There's just no point. Why even why even  go into that middle space? And I just my love for. my dad which was always very strong was like even  stronger. My empathy for my dad, my mom, you know, cuz you think about what you always think about  what they did right to you cuz we're the center of. our own story. because you have to be or you can't  live. I'm not I'm not diminishing that. But then. once you start thinking about like what happened  to them, what happened to them that got them right.

here. And then suddenly you're like, "Yeah, man.  Whatever. My problems are my problems or what I. went through. I went through." But every everybody  everybody is going through that. Everybody's going. through something. And then and then and then  as that expands, I think that's meaning and. I think that's how you connect more with God  because that's the divine communion. Empathy, you know, empathy is the part of the divine  communion. That's why charity is part of the. divine communion. That's why these are all taught  by Christ, even people who don't believe in them,

see the the logic in it is you it's just it's  communion with the divine. And the better we. are to each other, the more in touch we are with  the the divine. And the more that we fight and we. bicker and we squabble and in the case of war, we  kill each other, the further the further away we. are from God. You know, Scott Adams. Mhm. quite  well. He's facing death it sounds like. No, no, that's why I've been crying. I've been telling  you, I just been crying. You know, I saw some.

video Sean has sent me a video and he's like,  you know, a lot of people don't know this, but. when I was just starting off like Mike Cernovich  like really helped me out and really boosted and. which is it is true, but I was like, he's on his  deathbed. He's thinking about other people and. I'm wrapped up in my own Yeah. [ __ ] Aren't  we all? Every day. Yeah. I said he, you know, Charlie's dead, Scott's dead. We're all getting  older. You know, there's tragedy all around us. every day. And you want to start thinking about  your own life. And not that we don't already. So.

with Scott Adams dying, that's like a huge loss. I  was again, I I'd leave my house cuz I was crying. I was like, not that I'm afraid to cry in front of  my kids, but they'd be like, "Why are you crying, Dad? who's, you know, it's just like I just got  to I just got to take a walk and I'm just walking. and I'm like which is another thing too I liked  about that I couldn't cry before I w you like. hold it in you know you hold it in and once you  get good at working with the plant medicine you.

learn it's just a wave man it's just a wave let  the waves flow why are we so afraid like why are. we so afraid to cry by ourselves right like why  if you're in a room by yourself and things are. surfacing whether you're with the plants or not  with the plants Who's there to look at you other. than God? What are you afraid of? I don't know.  What What are we afraid of? That is scary. That's. the That's the the ego in us that keeps us alive,  but also enslaves us. That's the part that desires. the illusion of control. So when you're when  you're letting things go, you have to surrender.

control for a minute. You do have to like lose  your [ __ ] for a minute. And then that that part. of the the egoism wants to wants to fight against  that and wants to feel like I you know I don't do. this and then yeah be dignified. We don't do this  like we don't cry. It's like well I mean I don't. think it's healthy to cry around your wife all the  time. Right. No it's not right. I'm not saying not. a good idea. Yeah. I'm not saying walk around  and like we're don't cry in front of your wife. all the time. We're weepy you know we're weepy  all the time. But that's a recipe for celibacy.

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's not that's not an ideal  thing. But like when my wife had a miscarriage, I like I cried the hell out of that. I just in my  office by myself and I cried and then I you know. what I noticed? I started talking to people or I  you know I wrote about it and they're like oh I. had a miscarriage. I was like why does nobody talk  about this? I know you can't talk about it. That. felt like a kid died. I was not even pro-life  at that point. I was like yeah politically kind. of am. And when we had that miscarriage go my  kid died. My kid is dead. True. And from that I.

was like, "Oh, pro-life." You know, I just I just  was an idiot and didn't really understand. That's. such a common story though you hear from people,  you know, but people don't talk about it. Well, you're right. Yeah. That's another thing. And then  everybody's walking around holding everything in. They're like, "Why are people getting drunk? Why  are people doing opios? Why are people Why do you. think?" Cuz they're they're just like holding  on to it. And then then they want to mask the.

feelings as they bubble up. So they find alcohol  or they find drugs or they find pornography or. they the devil loves that. I that's that's the  thing too where I go back and forth and the. demonic thing with Iawaska. I was telling a friend  about this actually I told a friend and he goes he. goes what are you doing this weekend? I was like  oh I got I'm doing some fasting and I'm going do. Iaska retreat. He's like I sounds dangerous and  scary. I go where are you going? He's like I'm. going to Vegas. And I go that sounds dangerous and  scary to me. Well, you're going to be amongst the.

drunks and you might get hit by a drunk driver and  you might drink too much and find yourself in a. strange bed. That to me, if that's where the devil  wants you, I agree. Cuz if you start looking, if like with the Iawaska thing, even having  some experience with it, I'm talking myself. out of it until the minute that I drink the tea.  Up until that very second that I drink the tea, I'm thinking of every excuse in the world to  not drink it because I don't want to drink it. I. don't want to do it. But if 10 years ago you said,  "Hey, do you want to go some take take some shots.

of vodka and other things?" Like, "Oh, yeah, that  sounds like a great time." Of course. So then you. have to that's where the discernment comes in. And  that's where it becomes a heavier question. Well, why is it that I want to do things that we  know are a sin, that we know are damaging, and I want to I'm excited for that, but I don't  want to do this thing that is like demonic with. all of my being. I do not if the I do not want  to ever drink Iawaska for the rest of my life.

I do not want to. That doesn't mean I won't, but I  don't want to. Well, why though? Why don't I want. to? Well, it's it's because of the the spiritual  awakening or the spiritual reckoning that happens. and the the realizations which fundamentally  I think have made me a more again I don't. want to say a good person, but it's certainly  made me change my life and live differently. Have there been any downsides? You got to be  comfortable with spiritual spiritual confusion.

would be one. So I have a certain there's a  certain like weight now that I you ever hear the. expression like the unbearable lightness of being  of course and it's like very California woo thing. and everybody's all about lighten up man you know  chill out you should like learn to relax and I do. and a friend of mine who who found the medicine  after I did remember we were hanging out he came.

out to one cigar he goes Mike I was like yeah  what's up brother what's He goes, "I don't know. how to say this." He goes, "But since drinking  Iawaska," and he's a Christian. He plays in his. band, you know, in in the he plays guitar in a  band at church every Sunday. He goes, "I don't. know how to say." I go, "Oh, you're like really  spiritually confused, right?" He goes, "Yes.". And I go, "What do you think?" I like know the  answer. He's like He goes, "All I'm thinking about. is like, am I doing the right thing?" And there  there's a there's a confusion, but like in a good.

way, where I think that a lot of people think,  well, I'm I'm a Christian. I'm saved. I accepted. Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Once saved, always  saved, and then I'll just sort of live my life and. maybe go to church and try to be a good person or  whatever. But you feel like I'm a, you know, I'm a. Christian, like I've checked the box. Whereas when  you with the medicine, I think it's the opposite. where you're just on any moment you're just  waging against whatever sin, the darkness,

and you're just like, I don't know, man. I I  believe, but I don't I don't really know what's. going to happen. I I hope I you know, I hope I'm  doing the right things. And that that level of. spiritual confusion, I think, is not meant for  everyone. So, I don't think most people are even. I think almost nobody should should drink Iawaska.  I think almost no one should. I I think it's only. something that if a person feels like they're  going to do it anyway and no amount of persuasion.

for me is going to work, then that's something  to talk about. But I I don't think people should. should dabble in this kind of stuff really. But if  you're a vet and you're like looking at the bottom. of a bottle of Jack Daniels and you got a gun next  to you, let's get you to Mexico, you know? Let's. get you to Peru. Like that's a that's a whole  different Have you ever known anyone who's been. made worse by it? Wor worse is worse is a hard way  of putting it because people go through phases. So.

I've what happens with some people unfortunately  is because you are getting quote unquote like. downloads from the universe. People do kind of  chase that download of the universe dragon versus. like the hard work of living in life, right? So  drinking Iwasa once you kind of have a hang of it, it's never easy, but it's like you put on your  space suit and you kind of know, you know, you. kind of know like you drink it and you can feel  it moving through you and your hands start to feel.

like you have carpal tunnel and right when you  feel like you sort of stretch out, you're like, "Oh yeah, I'm the medicine's about to hit and  you can't direct the experience in an active way, but you sort of know what you're you're getting  into." the first couple times, God help you. And. what people will do then is rather than undertake  the hard work of being alive, the hard work is. here. The the the realizations that I had, change  how I live here, but the hard work is still like,

I don't know, this is a great talk. I'm going  to leave here. I'm like, I think that was a good. talk. And then I'm going to be like wrapped up  about some business thing, you know, or mad about. something that somebody did to me or wondering  about some un, you know, uncertain thing and then. the, you know, the demons come in and kind of kind  of steal your joy. So the hard work is here and in. planet Earth, why are we here? That's again goes  to the meaning of life question. The um like take.

the Garden of Eden story for example. Even if it's  not real, why was it written? I mean, if it's not. real, it was written as a metaphor, I suppose.  Why though? To tell us about the nature of God. and man. That's one. Yeah. But I think it's this  is not our home. Yeah. Right. Which is we know we. don't we know we don't belong here, right? the  the Garden of Eden is whatever this is, this is.

not like we were whether we were cast out of Eden  because we listened to the serpent and we rejected. God. Whether that's literal, that's a metaphor.  The the underlying feeling is that we are aliens. on this planet. Yeah. However, we got here is  a is a different question. The New Testament. says that a lot. And we're just like stuck in  these like bodies that don't want to cooperate. and that want to lead us to to things that we on a  spiritual level maybe don't want to do. So, so the.

the only real downside that I've seen from people  who have done the plant medicine, although there. are bad stories like there, like I after I had a  really big night and the guy said, you know, if. you're thinking about leaving your wife, call me  first. And I go, I I love my wife more than ever. I was like, actually would be the opposite. He  goes, okay. He goes, but you had a big night. So, what happens is a lot of times people have a big  night, the facilitator or shaman guy isn't good.

or he's fly by night and you're just like, "Oh, I  realize I'm not living the way I'm supposed to.". And they just like up in their life. Yeah. I know  someone who did that. Yeah. So, that is a 100% a. risk. And that's why I'm I'm always hesitant to  talk about it because I don't want to seem like. I'm glamorizing it. I want to like when I talk  about Iawaska, I want it to sound kind of like. foreoding. Yes. You know, maybe you shouldn't do  this. You probably shouldn't do this. You probably. shouldn't. You might just blow up your whole  life. You probably shouldn't do it to to avoid.

people going in and saying, it's like, no, bro.  You didn't you were just bored, right? You were. just bored and now you like destroyed your whole  life. And the real the real work is the homework. The homework is this what we got to do here. the  downloads from the universe might feel great at. the time or you might feel like you have all this  insight and connection to a super intelligence and. superpower but you're still back here on planet  Earth so why don't you spend more time here in.

this body and planet earth and figuring out the  the best way to live your life has the experience. made you more aware of like the spiritual realm  around you dayto-day I see everything as spiritual. realm yeah every I see everything as being  interests, entities trying to act upon humanity. in some kind of cosmic war that we don't really  understand. But for whatever reason, humans are. a very important part of it. Now, my belief again  is the Orthodox Christian part, which is like I.

accept the Orthodox Christianity story is the true  one, but I'm just, you know, I'm trying not to be. a like I'm a priest because God knows Trenum or  someone if you want a priest. Stay far away from. me. Like that's people ask me religious questions.  I'm like get away from me and find Josiah Trenum. I feel the same way. So far away from you, please.  I have no no standing. Yeah. Get away. So I'm just. saying like my own belief is that God created man.  We have bodies. The demons envy us because they.

they can't be satiated. They don't have bodies.  They hate us. When they attack us, that's their. revenge against God. So the demons are constantly  trying to use us. They can't be satiated. How in. why why do you say that? That's because they're  floating around in a spirit. They've been denied. bodies so that they are roaming around like  in a in a zombie kind of state. I've always. thought that one of the hallmarks of like hell on  earth is the inability to be satiated, satisfied,

full. Yes. Whether it's eating bad food or having  the wrong kind of sex, it's like it's never enough. or drugs or alcohol or insomnia. Yeah. Imagine.  Yeah. So, they're walking around in insomnia and. they hate us. They hate humans and they want to  hurt us and they more importantly want us to hurt. each other to to harm God. That's how they see  us. Because the demons think they're going to. win. Remember, like if you're a Christian, we say,  "Well, we know how the story ends. God wins in.

the end, right?" The demons don't believe that,  though. We believe that. They don't believe it. So they believe that the they can turn us  against each other. They can get us to hurt. each other. They can like a lot of demons enter  people through traumatic experiences. Yes. They. believe they believe they're going to win. This  is not in their minds. They are the winners. in the end. They're going to win. So they want  to use us to get us to harm each other because.

they see that as harming God more than anything  else. So we're constantly being acted upon. So, I'm constantly like praying for discernment,  discernment, discernment, discernment, discernment. Am I being manipulated? Am I being  led astray? Cuz I mean, on a pl political level, I've been played before by people, by sources, not  knowing it. Oh, me too. And then I find out a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm So, like when people tell  me things like, "Oh, here's the truth about the. Venezuela raid, or here's the truth about Israel,  or here's the truth about Palestine." It's like.

discernment. Am I just being played? Cuz everybody  once you, you know, especially at your level, that's why I was telling telling you guys earlier  like I thank the Lord above that I am not you, that I'm not Russell Brand, that I am not Temple,  that I am not any of you guys because I'm so weak. and pathetic. I couldn't imagine if I had your  guys'. Yeah, it's not. You can say that. You. can brush it off, but um I have so many dogs and  children that it's like I don't even notice. But.

uh I I make myself not notice. But no, but I  think anyone who's in a position where other. people listen to him is under particularly fierce  attack constant. No, just imagine that the text. like JD is that's imaginable. Just like unreal.  Um cuz even sometimes I'm like ah you I'll see. something you said like I don't I don't agree with  that. And I go, man, I'm not going to be another. guy texting Tucker, nagging him about Please  do nagging nagging him about something. But no,

so I So there is the risk that as you've seen  happen, a person is kind of an Iawaska tourist. They go in, they go, "Oh, my whole life has been  a lie and therefore I'm just going to like blow. up my whole life." Don't do that. Like and if  the person you're with is not or if the shaman. or whatever the facilitator is not telling you  like don't do that then then you're in the wrong. place. But other but other than that and people  getting caught in the the trap of downloads, I've.

seen like the biggest baddest men on the planet  that just want to like hug their kids and they. went from PTSD and staring off into the void and  drinking and fighting with their wives and riding. motorcycles too fast just for a rush and because  frankly like maybe they maybe it is a death wish. Of course it is, right? And then you take away  responsibility because you go, "Oh, I just got in. a crash. I didn't kill myself like some [ __ ]  you know, I just got in a wreck." But really,

they're trying to kill themselves and just become  like it's actually pretty it's actually changed. my view on a lot of this like real men don't  cry and you see all this bravado and I'm like, "Dude, I've cried with the Del Force guy. I've  cried with the Seal Team 6 guy. You are not more. whatever your definition of manly is, you are like  not more." If if you ever see like Marcus Capone, he's like this. You are not more manly than Marcus  Capone or DJ Shipley or any of these other guys.

That that's like for sure. So there. So I at the  very least I do hope it because again I don't. want people to listen to this and go to Iawaska.  It's an immense that would be immensely damaging. for somebody to do that based on what I'm saying  to me. I don't want him to do it. That wouldn't. be a nice thing to do to me. But I do hope that  people can say, "Yeah, what's the big deal? Like. I'm by myself in a room and I'm praying and I I  cry. Why am I holding it in? Who cares?" Right?

And then find that find that ego is the reason.  I think you're exactly right. So last question. We we're in a period of we're in a a huge change  period of course and one of the qualities of it. is chaos. It's just a chaotic moment. It's hard  to understand, especially if you're, you know, 50 and you've been watching this stuff your whole  life. It's like all of a sudden this, you weren't, this is a departure. How much of that chaos  is like spiritual? It always has been. I mean,

you remember that song, Sympathy for the Devil,  Rolling Stone, of course. What if that's not. a song? What if that's real? Right. Well, it  is real, right? So in in my view the the the. the Jacabin terror, the Bolevik revolution, the  Spanish civil war, what's happening in Ukraine. Yeah, it's all the same. It's all part of the  same strain. So I think that we because again, you're born into a certain period of time and  then we tend to overweight the time that we're in. and we see it maybe in a different color than it  should be. We're not like your son isn't getting.

drafted in the Vietnam War. We're not getting  drafted into the World War II. were not getting. drafted into the World War I. I think that in  terms of even though he's kind of a lamester, Stephen Pinker is like better angels. I think  we were on the trend to towards a better world. and we've seen that that's been upended, but  that we're still in a good time. And what we do. want to have as our as our north star is is like  preserving order knowing that like we're going.

to have conflict, but if we can find some kind of  allyship or alliance and that means everybody has. to pull their own weight, then we shouldn't give  into the rank or the infighting. And I I used to. be an infighter and like infighting a lot and I've  cut down on that by at least half. It's a good. New Year's resolution. Mike Sternovich, that that  didn't go in the direction I anticipated. It was.

much better and more interesting and deeper. Thank  you. Thank you. My pleasure. [Applause] [Music].