Tucker and Anson Frericks on How Big Business Was Captured by Wokeism and Is Now Self-Destructing

So what happened. to Anheuser-Busch? Like what is it, if. you don't mind, since you've thought. about this probably more than any. living person, how exactly did. a company, an American company. like that, that you felt like. had a sense of the country that it. served, go. off in a direction that was so. obviously crazy and. self-destructive, like. how could that happen?

You know, Tucker, there's a short. story to it and there's a long. story. I mean, I'll give you the. short version and we can get into. the longer version of what happened. Great. But, you know, I mean the. short versions, this used to be a. great American company. This was owned by the Bush family. The Bush family had started this. thing in the 1850s. This is the same time you have the.

Carnegie's, the Vanderbilt's, the. Rockefeller's. You didn't have any of those folks. still in the, I know, 20 years ago, but the Bush family is actually still. running in as Bush 20 years ago, which is crazy. I think they actually have houses. right around here, as a matter of. fact. I know them. Yeah, you. probably know them well. And so the short story is... Very nice people. I'm not everyone in the family, but. some of the people that... It's a big family. One of the former presidents, great. man. Yeah, it's a big family. So long story short, the company got. so big. And at some point, it owned. Sea World. It owned Busch Gardens. It owned eight helicopters, 10. private jets. It got a little bit.

bloated. So it got taken over by. this Belgian company, European company called InBev. InBeV came in and bought it in 2008. And the culture has really changed. Whereas Anne Hester Bush was all. about growing the brands, understood. the US consumer, Budweiser, Bud. Light, all these things, InBeve had. a different mentality. They were much more of the world's. largest private equity from the. happen to sell beer. a lot of cost. cutting that went on. brought a lot of European people. into the United States, changed the. headquarters from St. Louis, Missouri, which is almost the. geographical center of the country. And a wonderful town. Wonderful town. And they moved it to New York City.

And then when they moved into New York. city. Not a wonderful time. Very, very different town, different. mentality. And then all of a sudden they had. bought a bunch of different beer. companies. After buying in as a. bush, they got a group, bought Group. Modelo, SCB Miller took on too much. debt. All of a sudden, the company. in 2017, 2018- Wait, you're saying a. private equity firm took on too much. debt? No, yeah, it wouldn't be the. first time. So, you know, never. happened before, right? Never. happened before. And I think the bigger problem was, is that in 2018, 19, for. a bunch of different reasons, the. company to try and grow, they adopted. a lot of the ESG, DEI. philosophies that we've heard a lot.

about. Stakeholder capitalism, which is. this European concept that. businesses are supposed to serve all. types of purposes. That pops up. And then two or three years later, all of a sudden, the company has. really changed. It changed from sort. of a great American company based. in the Midwest, based off. meritocracy values, and then. all of the sudden in the, you know, kind of post COVID, post George. Floyd era and has a Bush, they start. moving away from being a. meritocracy, moving more towards. diversity, equity, inclusion, moving. more, towards, um, getting more. involved in political issues. And, you, know, unfortunately with, I would have a dilimelating bud.

light. That was the product of maybe. 10 years of mistakes the company had. made. And now all of a sudden you. have a company that's lost 50% of. its sales with the biggest beer in. America by the light and they still. haven't turned it around. So that's the short story. Now we. can get into the longer story about. maybe more broadly what happened. Okay, so, I mean, you're. describing so many American. companies, by the way, that trajectory downward. But at the end of the story, there was this revealing moment. where Anheuser-Busch. executives or one of them basically.

submitted, I hate our consumers. And you wonder, like, where does. that mind, I'm sure you have all. kinds of dumb ideas about business. and dumb ideas about everything. else. but if you're in the. retail business, if you are selling. products to consumers, and you find. yourself in a place where you're. like, let's piss them off and. humiliate them. That's so obviously insane, like. how could anybody say something like. that? No, totally insane. And I think let's back up because I. mean, really, I think this story starts. almost 40 years beforehand, where you really are starting to. talk about what is the purpose of a.

corporation? Like, what are businesses in the. business of doing? And in the United States, since the. 1970s, had this sort of this view of. Milton Friedman. Milton Friedmann, famous economist, said the purpose of a Corporation. was to serve its shareholders, the. people actually own the business. How do you do that? Well, you focus on your customers. focus on creating great products and. services. When you do, that you. create generate more revenue, You. can hire more people. and business continue to grow and do. all the great things businesses do. There was this other philosophy that. was more this European view of the. world that says the purpose of a. corporation is to serve all.

stakeholders. That was served by Klaus Schwab, this is the World Economic Forum, Davos type of elite that over in. Europe. What's a stakeholder? So that's the problem. There are thousands of stakeholders. It's almost the idea of like when. you have this shareholder capitalism. on that Milton Friedman says, you. must have like one God. The God is the shareholder. That's who you have to take a look. at. this stakeholder capitalism. model, you have thousands of gods. Those can be activists, government employees, they can be. suppliers, they can be employers, they can be social. activists, you name it, there's.

thousands of them. People have nothing to do with your. company. It has nothing to do with. the company. But you're supposed to be in the. business of maximizing value. for all so-called stakeholders, for. the greater good of society. Sounds very European socialism. And that's effectively what it was. And both of these systems, they. purported to do the same thing. 40 years ago, they said we're going. to make people more money and lead. to better societal outcomes. Problem is over the last 40 years, I. mean, if you just take a look at. sort of the US economic model. versus Europe since the 1970s, US. has trounced Europe on both of.

those premises. If you take a Look at our stock. market returns in the US, take an. S&P 500 over the past 40 years. we've generated 10% a year on. average. Europe broad based entities are like. 6 to 7%. But then in perspective, you had. $100,000 invest in the U.S. in 1970. and 100,000 in Europe, in the US. it'd be worth four and a half million. dollars today, it'd worth one and a. million dollars in Europe. So that's a huge difference, based on the compounding interest of. money. And then separately, if you take a look at the US, Europe. might say, okay, well, we didn't. make as much money, but do we lead.

to better societal outcomes? And I would say, no. I mean, if we. take a looks at the U.S., almost. every broad-based prosperity metric, GDP growth, per capita income, interest rates, unemployment rates, the US trounces Europe on all of. those. I mean like, our poorest. countries in the United States, are. generally wealthier than most of the. European countries on a per capita. basis. And so over the last sort of 40. years, you kind of had these two. systems that were developing and. the U.S. model to me is just the. superior model. I mean, I believe in. American exceptionalism. I think our American model works. The problem is with the American. models, every once in a while, they're kind of bumps in the system,

bumps in a road. And the last time we had kind of a. real economic bump in the road, let's call it was 2008, 2009. You had sort of the great financial. crisis that happens. And after the great finance crisis, There's sort of a lot of people that. were upset that banks got bailed. out. It seemed like Main Street was. the one that sort of that lost out. People lost houses. And so all of a sudden business and. capitalism kind of has to repair. itself and repair its image. And the way that it did that is. especially if you remember like. Occupy Wall Street movement, Occupied Wall Street and everyone. else says, okay, well banks and.

financers and companies, they. need to be a bigger part of the. system and making sure that. everybody can succeed. At the same time then you had Obama. was the president and he came up. with some diversity equity inclusion. mandates That were happening within. sort of the broader base government. and for the next three or four or. five years You see a lot of. companies that are trying to repair. the image of so-called business and. capitalism in the United States. McKinsey came out with a favorites. famous study that says diversity. wins Where they said. we're gonna have let's for sort of. diversity initiatives on a lot.

companies and those ones would do. better This study has been. thoroughly debunked You had a lot. of asset management companies, the. Black Rocks, State Streets, Vanguard's of the world. They started really. talking more about environmental. social governance issues, which was. a term that was coined in 2005. Really never went anywhere. The United Nations originally coined. it, you know, if the United Nations. coined something, usually, you'd be. skeptical of it, didn't go anywhere. for the first five or 10 years. But after the Occupy Wall Street. movement, a lot big asset managers. kind of picked up this term, started. talking about environmental social.

governance issues. And really a lot of these issues. picked up tons of steam when Trump. was first elected. And when Trump is first elected and. he pulled out of these supranational. organizations, the Paris. Climate Accords, pulled out the. human rights sort of campaign. coalitions. All of a sudden, a lot of these more. progressive institutions that said, wait a minute, like we thought. government was gonna solve these. existential crises of climate. change and banking systems and. systemic racism and you kind of name. it, now suddenly they're not, and we need business to do this.

And by the way, a lot of progressive. pension funds, State of California, State of New York, European. sovereign wealth funds like Norway. and others, they have collectively. trillions of dollars of assets. And they said, okay, now if these, a lot these banks that had all of a. sudden started talking more about. environmental, social governance. issues, we're gonna manage money. on our behalf. We wanted them to solve a. lot of the existential crisis in. this country that Trump was not. gonna do in 2016. And at that time period, you had a. really interesting thing that. happened. We've been with BlackRock.

Quite. The largest asset management. company in the world. Managed about to over $10 trillion. worth of capital. And what was interesting is. BlackRock was really one of the. leaders of this movement, along with. State Street, Vanguard, those. three largest asset managers in this. entire country managed about $20. trillion worth assets. They're the single largest shareholder. in 95% of the S&P 500. And they wield a lot of influence in. terms of telling companies kind of. what to do. And the problem with a lot of these. big asset managers is that it's. not their own money that they're.

managing. You know, this was like George Soros. type money or, you know, Bill Gates, like it's their own money and they, you ask companies to do all types of. crazy things. But the problem was with BlackRock, State Street and Vanguard is they. were managing, I mean, a lot times. like your money, my money through. 401ks or pension funds or others. And because of their largest sort of. clients, which again, I'm with the. progressive pension funds and. others, are telling them that they. want business to get more involved. in politics and social issues. then all of a sudden they're. starting to force a new agenda on. corporations. Telling companies that we want you. guys to get more involved in environmental,

social and governance issues. And they even changed the purpose of. a corporation in the 2018-2019. time period. There was a famous letter that Larry. Fink, the CEO of BlackRock wrote in. 2018, essentially telling. companies that we want them. to now earn their social license. And you're gonna do that because we. have evolved the purpose of a. corporation with a group known as. the business round table in the. United States to. be more focused on your. stakeholders. So you're no longer focused on. shareholders, we want you to focus. on stakeholders.

And that is now who you are now. going to focus on for maximizing. value without defining, again, who. those stakeholders are. And so this becomes very, very. problematic in this sort of 2018, 2019 timeframe because companies are. frankly confused. And it's set up really a lot of, I'll call it kindling. for an event that happened in 2020, which was COVID. And all of a sudden companies are. being told they need to earn their. social license. They're being told that now no. longer are your shareholders, you're. kind of primary person that you're. serving, but you're now serving all. stakeholders without defining what.

that is. And in the 2020 time period, now all of the sudden you have this. event of COVID. And when COVID happens, you just. call this crazy time period. We don't need to go through all of it, but companies frankly like lost. their sense of direction about who. they're serving and what their. mission is. remember we all had to. flatten the curve and you know the. so-called flatten the curve in early. 2020 and companies. were essentially except for the. george floyd rioters who were. under no such obligation i noticed. correct but yeah that that's. obviously after the after this but. you know in in march of 2020 i.

mean almost every company lost what. its mission was um what do. i mean by that well let's let's go. back to what us at anheuser bush we. were making hand sanitizer in 2020. all of a sudden because we We need. to flatten this curve and we're all. in this existential crisis of COVID. You had Delta Airlines, no longer. flying passengers, but now flying. medical supplies all around. You had General Motors, which is now making ventilators for. the country. Walmart, setting up. COVID testing facilities. So all of these companies all of a. sudden were told to focus on a lot. of different initiatives besides.

just their typical products and. services. And frankly, like a lot these. efforts, like you think about like. curves flatten very quickly. You know, there was no like real. existential crisis like we thought. there was. But the problem was that since all. these companies had kind of been. pushed off their mission. Then we had this next issue, which. was the George Floyd issue that pops. up in May of 2020. And George Floyd, George. Floyd dies. And now the sudden next existential. crisis that every single company in. the United States is looking to. solve is systemic racism. Because their largest.

so-called shareholders in the Black. Rock State Street's vanguards of the. world who had told them that now. we want you focused on solving more. of these stakeholder and societal. issues. we need you to now solve these. issues. I mean, you went down the. list. I mean it was crazy after. George Floyd was murdered. You had 70 different companies in. the United States here donated over. $200 billion to. Black Lives Matter in the Unites. States. That's like more than the. GDP of Portugal, which is crazy in. terms of the amount of money that was. donated to these causes. And banking donations just wasn't. enough. I mean even Zuckerberg and.

Facebook at the time donated some. eight figure sum to it. But then when that summer, Trump had. the famous tweet about when the. looting starts, the shooting starts. then everybody wanted him to now all. of a sudden take Trump off of. Facebook because it just wasn't. enough just to donate, you actually. had to silence folks as well. On top of that, in 2020, 2021, you. had the Black Rocks and States use. Vanguard the world as well, not only. are they, this is where the big. problem comes in, is because.

they are controlled, the largest. percentage of companies in the. United States, they have. disproportionate power. to advocate for policies at. companies, and then most. importantly, to vote for. shareholder proposals at companies. where if you own $25,000. of stock in any company in the. United States, you can put up what's. known as a shareholder proposal that. the so-called shareholders of. the company they can vote on. And what was crazy is in 2020, 2021, you had a lot of.

these activists that because the. purpose of this corporation had. changed in the United States, away. from shareholder value to this. European stakeholder model, said, okay, now businesses, again, they. have to maximize value for me. So you saw, there's a group called. Color of Change, and it's. a nonprofit group, and their mission. is to stamp out systemic racism in. the country. Okay, fine, you can do. that, you're whatever. But they went to Apple, they bought. $25,000 worth of shares at Apple, and. They put up this shareholder. proposal that said, Hey, you Apple, we want you guys do a racial equity.

audit to figure out how. you've contributed to systemic. racism and white supremacy in the. country. And Apple, which is, you know, pretty liberal leftist board, you. have a company of Tim Cook, who's a. CEO and very liberal board. They said, guys, like, thanks, but. no, thanks. Because Apple's mission. is to make magical devices at. unbelievable prices. Like, that's what we just do. You know, that's our thing. Like. these are important issues, but. we're going to recommend against. this proposal. because we don't want to spend tens. of millions of dollars hiring Eric. Holder and Loretta Lynch to go and. do a racial equity audit.

But this passed by. 52 to 48% because. you had firms like BlackRock, which. is the second largest shareholder of. the company, voted for it, Vanguard. State Street, everyone else are. voting for these issues, enforcing. corporate America to now get. involved in social and political. issues. And this went the same thing. for election integrity law issues. that people were asking companies to. get involved in defund the police. initiatives, help PETA, People for. the ethical treatment of animals. They put up a proposal telling. Starbucks, we don't use cow milk. anymore because we don't think you. should use cowmilk at Starbucks. I mean, it's crazy. All these proposals that popped up.

in this post, in this post sort of. COVID George Floyd era. And companies were essentially. forced by these large asset. managers to get involved in a lot of. political and social issues. So that was sort of the backdrop. So can I just give you my theory. on this? Yeah. Here, there's a backdrop. to all of this, which is. the movement of, you know, the economic center of. gravity upward in the United States. So Obama becomes president in 2008, middle class is the majority in the. Unites States.

He leaves in 2016, the middle class. is no longer the majority for the. first time, maybe ever. And at the same time, we've got free. money. We're down to zero interest. rates. and that money is being. pumped way disproportionately into a. certain sector of the economy, the. banking sector. And so basically, most people are getting poorer, but. a small number of people are way. richer. I mean, it's measurable, I. live among them, everyone's got a. plane now, that was not true in. 2008. There's just created a lot of. wealth, the Fed created a lotta.

wealth. And so in a certain sense, that's. like immoral, or it's certainly hard. to defend. And so rather than defend it, It wasn't the companies that wanted. this stuff. It was the debt holders. It was finance people who wanted it. because it was a cover for what they. were doing, which is getting really. rich. Larry Fink got super, super. rich. A lot of like manufacturing. concerns, family businesses went. under or did not get rich at. the same scale. And so you just like throw out like. race war, you know, hate people because of their, you.

know whatever, immutable. characteristics. Hey, let's throw. the trans stuff in there too. By the way, we're all gonna die from. global warming. You basically just. Freak everybody out, throw the. entire society off balance so they. don't notice the looting. Yeah, I mean, that's essentially, I, I bet, but it is. all about it's control and money. I mean it's controlled and it's. money. I mean you think about, but. all these social issues were always. a cover for what was actually going. on, which is like Larry Fink getting. richer. Oh, a hundred percent. And it's so, it's, it so funny. So when he started talking a lot. about ESG, environmental social. governments in 2018, 2019,

all of a sudden they started a. scoring system, you know, it was. almost like a social credit system. you'd have in China or somewhere. else, scoring companies on. how little carbon that they use. They're scoring companies on. Did they do gender affirmation care. for their employees? And these scores were used to. essentially pick and choose. companies that could be included in. indices that Larry Fink and. BlackRock and others, they could. charge investors three to four times. the amount of money for these ESG. funds versus the regular funds. And the funny thing was these ESD. funds underperformed their.

broad-based counterparts. So you ended up with less money, but you were charged more for doing. it, which is crazy. And, you know, it's really funny. that... So do you think it would, since you've studied this much more. than I have, do you it would be a. mistake to think that there was any. sincerity behind this? Like, do think there was ever a. moment where like Larry Fink or for. that matter Tim Cook or anybody. at State Street or Vanguard thought, you know we're gonna solve systemic. racism by attacking the white. working class, like we're actually. gonna solve this problem. Do you think they really thought that? I mean, there might've been one or.

two people there, they're just. sitting there, totally out there. But no, I mean I don't really think, I think this was all just sort of a. money grab and a feel good and being. able to go to the right parties in. New York City. That's the way it. seems to me, but you know. I mean it really is, because it just. doesn't pass any of the first. principle test whatsoever. And you know, it's funny, the. companies that were the worst, I. mean this tended to be more of a New. York city, you know kind of a. ideology, also a European ideology. as well. I mean there is some. sincerity to it. I mean This is. funny, you'll appreciate this, I. think thumb. where we're going with all of this,

because you've seen obviously retreat. with a lot of companies have backed. away from DEI over the last couple. of months. There's other companies that are. holding on to some vestige of it, but there's others that are really. all in on diversity and inclusion. I'll give you a group. To this day. You're. gonna love this. And the worst of the Europeans, because they really, I think, believe in this sort of. European stakeholder capitalism. model. So I'll you a plug for Alp right. now. So if you talk about. one of the worst companies that's. out there. America's greatest nicotine pouch. America's lip pillow.

But who is your biggest. competitor? That would be the Zinn Corporation. Zinn, do you know who owns Zinn? I do. So it's Philip Morris International. They're operationally headquartered. in Switzerland. On their website to this day, I. mean, you go on their website today, they have a massive diversity, equity, inclusion piece that is on. their web site. They have that, and I would say it's. the, I'll call it the worst aspects. of DI, which can be quota systems, race-based systems. And on their websites today, They. say, we're going to hire. 20% of our people, we want to be.

Asian. Put it on their website, just. 20%. They want 40% women. I mean, literally quota systems they. have on their web site today. 100% African by the way if they're. really gonna make a dent but they. could they're racist so they wouldn't. do that. Yeah, so I mean, but the other piece. is that on their website, this is a. company that makes Marlboro. cigarettes and Zen and other things. is so they're like one of. their big, one of the big partners. for pride month that's coming up. is the Stonewall org and. Stonewall org is one of these, um, you know, LGBTQ plus organizations.

and you know fine, you can do that, but like they are advocating for. biological men to compete against. women in sports, they're advocates. Zin is all in on the gay thing? I mean, but like, this is what's. crazy. Is that like, and I think. this is the problem about where we're. going is. What does that have to keep that out. of my mouth? I mean this is like, come on. So, but this is. a problem of I think like, where. you're seeing trying to serve. multiple masters. I'm not making this up. You can literally go on their website, literally today and see all of this. And I think that's the problem we're. seeing is that you have these more. like European based companies that.

I think might sincerely probably. believe a lot of this or the. European mindset, which is very. distinct from sort of the American. capitalist model. Crippled by war guilt, bent on. suicide, yes. Yeah, and at least here in the. United States and others, we have a. democracy, we can throw people out. if we don't like them, but. corporations, I mean, they're. transnational organizations. They operate... With an emphasis on. the trans. Yeah. But they go across. borders. And if you are sort of operation. philosophically sort of a European. based company, but you. have operations in another country.

and you're imposing those values in. another country, I think that's. problematic. You probably have no idea where your. meat comes from. You probably should know. The likelihood is that the meat. you're eating passed through a. massive industrial processing plant. probably owned by a foreign. corporation. Foreign meat. Did you sign up for that? We don't think you did. So you probably have. idea of knowing where the animal. grew up, what that animal ate, or. what chemicals Big Food pumped. into the animal to increase profits.

That's all kept secret, meaning you. can never really know what you're. putting in your mouth. and in your body. That's disgusting if you think about. it, and it's easy to fix. Merriwether Farms, a farm owned by. friends of ours, is a great option. We use their meat, we eat their meat. for every meal. Unlike corporate farmers, Merriweather Farms controls the. entire thing, from the pasture. the cattle graze on to the facility. where the beef is packaged. In Wyoming and across the Mountain. West, the cattle are raised without. hormones, without antibiotics or.

any other additive. clean American beef you can. trust every single time and they. will ship it straight to your door. Go to maryweatherfarms.com slash. Tucker, use the code TUCKER2025. for 10% off your first order. You can also save it a monthly. subscription if you sign up today. That's marywetherfarms dot. com slash Tucker. We eat it and vouch for it. It does feel like one of these, like. in 10 years. we're gonna look back and be like, you know, they were major consumer. products companies that felt.

empowered to talk about your sex. life and the sex lives of your. children. I agree. Back off with the gay stuff, by the. way. Just stop. Like, no one hates gays. Like, stop that. Stop that. Get out of my face with. that stuff. Like I don't care. or how people dress, I don't care. I'm totally sick of it, actually. But like, it's just insane that like. a nicotine pouch company would be. lecturing me about people's. sex lives. Like, stop. I agree. And this is the other thing. about like authentic authentically, what is a whatever nicotine, pout, cigarette company, marble, like what. are they doing working with. organizations? I mean, another thing.

is Stonewall is like, Hey, we want. to do youth sex education. for LG. How about I get my gun when you do. that? Like, stay away from my kids, how's. that? I don't understand. that, like, why any society would. put up with it, why Zen would pay. for it. And of course it's not just Fulham. Morse International, it's like so. many of these companies. No, it is. And like, here's the. other thing. It's like, I don't want. Philip Morse to the other side. I don'. want them advocating for the second. amendment either. It' like your. cigarette company. Just do that. Yeah. Just, just do that They don't. even sell cigarettes well. They don' even believe in what they. do. Yeah. So I think what's. interesting about where we're going.

is that you're going to have. sort of these companies, you're. seeing the same thing with China. I. mean, why is TikTok being asked to. be sold in the United States? Well, because it's technically owned. by a Chinese company and the Chinese. values that they're collecting data. and information, that's not going to. work for the United states. So they I need to sell it. That's not. why. They got involved in some, you know, they were considered a. vector for unapproved. foreign policy positions and. that's where the Congress did that. and they pretended it was about.

collecting data. These are, you know, people who. are all in on, you know, warrantless searches of. Americans and spying on Americans. and they have no problem with. violating your civil liberties at. all. They don't think you have civil. liberties, but they were under. pressure to ban TikTok because it. was considered radicalizing in ways. that their donors wouldn't accept. So that's the truth. Sorry. Got it. Well, you know, it's, uh, so it's never what they say it is, but I think the, the, the broader pieces though, is. that whether it's tick-tock, whether.

it is in the United States, whether, or Anne has a Bush, which used to be. American owned. I think you're going to have a lot of these. companies need to have choices about. what they're going to make moving. forward. If I think it's be very difficult to. operate in the U S if the U.S. is leaning more in towards these. radical ideas of free speech and. between religion and open. dialog and those things. we've always kind of been a city on. the hill in the United States. We've always been this exceptional. difference. Now more than ever, really. Probably now more than. never. I mean, we're almost more. isolated than probably we've ever. been. I think that's right. The last. four or five years, yes, we were. going more towards this. quasi-European socialism,

government intervention, and free. speech, and everything else. And we have now rejected that as a. country. But I think what's. difficult is that, yes. We've rejected it politically. But again, corporately, there's all. these tethers from around the world. because of the effects of. globalization over the last 20. years that you have a lot of these. companies that frankly, might not. hold sort of those same American. values. Talk Philip Morris, you know, Anheuser-Busch InBev, based in. Europe. In Europe, they have quota. systems for how many board members. have to look this way or be that way.

over in Europe, and one of the. reasons that I think, again, going. back to the original question, how. did this happen in the United. States, where Bud Light, the biggest beer brand in the Unites. States, how do they have a. partnership with Dylan Mulvaney? Well, they, I think have a lot of. these European-type values now, diversity, equity, inclusion. I'm so grateful. for that scandal, for the effects on the company of. that scandal and for your writing. this book because, and for what you. just told me, because I think most. Americans, I'll put my, I'll say of. myself, I have no idea. Like, you know, you just use Crest. toothpaste, you have no, no idea.

what they're sending money to. I use Zin for years. I finally realized it was a. left-wing company. I didn't get that. at first, but most Americans just. don't know what's happening to their. money. No, they don't. And then really, I think the. eye-opening moment, even for me, where how companies have been. co-opped is, I don't know if you. meant to have the Black Rifle Coffee. Company cup on your... Yeah, yeah. I love having. So I mean, you'll appreciate this. story. And I write about this in my. book, Last Call for Bud Light. But one of the opening chapters I.

have is, so I was president of. Anheuser-Busch in the US. And I tried to do a distribution. agreement with Black Rifled Coffee. Company. Because a lot of times, the. same people that were drinking a six. pack of Bud Light, you know, Budweiser Knight. we're drinking six black rifle. coffees in the morning. And so we were gonna put the black. rifle coffee, they're kind of 16. ounce drinks on the same trucks that. carry Bud and Bud Light to Walnut. and Kroger and 7-Eleven. And so I had this whole deal and we. were going to make a bunch of money on. that partnership. And our legal team, which was. now based in New York City and our. external affairs team based in new. York City, this is in.

2021, killed the deal, said you can't do it. I was like, what do you mean? Like, here's all the financials, this. makes tons of sense. Like, this is a. great company. They're growing like. gangbusters. I said, can't do it. Company's too controversial. I was like, what do you mean? Controversial. I was, like, you know, the company, like their mission is. to serve coffee and culture to. firefighters, police officers, law. enforcement, people who love them. And. the coffee just in point of fact. Excellent. Yeah, great coffee. I drink it every day. It's great. This is my thing. I mean, you know, this is a, that's. their mission. That's what they do. And you know Budweiser, we had. partnerships with folds of honor and.

other military, but in 2021, because of the whole DEI movement, which said like, Ooh, you know, they fund the police and like, you. know, defund the police was a big. thing, you know, kind of going on at. the time. And Ooh, military, you. know, I don't know about that. That seems a little bit too. controversial. I'm like, guys, like we sell like. King Cobra, 40 ounce bottles. You know, like, all over the place, like... America's favorite malt. liquor. What are you talking about? English 800? No, we didn't make Old English. That was a brand. I drank that as a kid. Yeah, that's one of the reasons I no.

longer drink. Yeah, did you ever do like the. Edward 40 hands with that one? No, no, that was a-. I did, and it just, you know, everyone beats up on kids for being. dumb, but actually the newer. generations are way more brilliant. than we ever were. Edward Forty Hands is like the. funniest thing that ever happened. Yeah, Edward Fortyhands was amazing, so... Duct tape. I'm against drinking. I don't know why I'm laughing. I don't drink. I hate alcohol, but. that is hilarious. Duct tape 240 ounce malt. liquor to get the answer. That's it. You couldn't untape them.

until you finish both of them. I feel guilty for laughing. Yeah, there were too many bad stories. Someone gets through one or half of. them, you're rumbling around and you. fall and it's like, you get glass. everywhere. But anyway, so no, not. OE. There were other ones. Sorry, sorry for the digression. But I can't remember where we're. going with that. Sorry, we. were talking Black Rifle. And yeah, so the deal gets killed. And that exact same because it was. too controversial of a brand. Yet, a year later, that exact same.

department, based in New York City. now, that killed the black rifle. coffee deal, they greenlit the Dylan. Mulvaney Partnership. And the Dylan-Mulvaney partnership, it was incredibly puzzling if you're. a Bud Light drinker. And again, I don't care how people. identify or what they wanna do with. their lives, but one of the reasons. that Bud Light became the biggest, most popular beer brand in the. United States is because it was. remarkably apolitical. Like it was a brand that was enjoyed. by Democrats and Republicans alike. because it was about like fun and it. was humor It was sort of this like, you know somewhat, you, know. counter-cultural, you know type of.

brand was about sports and music and. you know backyard barbecues and. All of a sudden the Bud Light had. just hired its first, you Know. female head of Bud Light in the. history of the of the brand, you. Know, no problem with that I've you. know, I'm sure they'd be there a lot. of there are a lot Of people that a. lot Of girls I know would be great. vp markers of Bud light the problem. with it was the person they hired. was A lady who had grown up in. New York City went to Harvard. for undergrad, Wharton for grad. school, had only lived in base of. the Northeastern entire life. I don't know if she'd ever drank a. Bud Light in her life and I don'. know if ever knew anybody who had as.

well. And she was very- Why would she make. her the head of the brand? Well, because like the DEI movement. basically said that you need to. essentially put different people in. different roles. You need a woman. Yeah, based off immutable characteristics. And even the 21, 22 time-. What was her name? Alyssa Heinerschneid. And I know Alyssa, she's. a nice girl and I worked with her. when I was at the company for a. while. Um, but she probably wasn't the. right person for, for Bud Light. But she was, she obviously wasn't. right. But almost.

50%. So obviously it wasn't, the, uh, was. the right person for the, for the. company. Um, But in this broader kind. of narrative in 2021, 2021, 2022, um, this is when I. was deciding to kind of like leave. Anheuser-Busch, I'd mentioned the. black rifle thing was kind of the, the final sort of. last straw for me, but even before. that. The principles of the company changed. My joining was the meritocracy. It was like, we wanna hire the best. and brightest and we wanna reward. them based off their results and pay. them accordingly, great. But in 21, 22, all of. a sudden that principle, there were.

10 principles of company, that went. around really, hiring the best price. changed towards, we now. reward people based off the quality. and diversity which was bolded. by the company and diversity of your. teams. And then all of the sudden the. company starts putting in. these diversity dashboards so we can. see what the diversity makeup of. your team. White men did a pretty good job. making beer, I think. Whatever you say about white men, like they created the company, they. made the beer, like why we hate. them all of a sudden? They created Budweiser. Well, I think it was just more so. the head-scratching piece of like,

you know, it doesn't matter if you're, again, like, white or black or gay. or shit, like, don't care, I just. want the best people. But the DEI is, the. only people discriminated against in. DEI are white men, obviously, straight white men. So like, I don't know. But there are probably some Asians. in there too, so. Well, they definitely have, well, they have been in a lot of Indians. and a lot of other folks as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent, Asians, South Asians. But the point of it was to reduce. the percentage of white men in. positions of leadership or with. paying jobs. And I just, I felt like. nobody had the balls to say that out.

loud, like that was considered. controversial to say. You. You would get fired if you said that. out loud. This was in the 21, 20, 22 timeframe, but that's the. problem with where we were. I mean, you know, this is a censorship. regime. I mean heck, you had the. Biden administration. I got fired. I got fired. in the end thank god. but no yes i did get fired so. actually it's kind of. So you remember this? I mean, yeah, I guess I do more so. than anybody. But yeah, you couldn't speak up. there in this time frame. That was. the problem. And then at the same. time, you had all these companies. that made all these pledges.

I mean the chief diversity. officers, like this really wasn't. even a position before 2020. And. What do you make? I make diversity. But I mean, but this is crazy, like, you know, and then all of a sudden, there was like a 400% increase in. chief diversity officer position. And these were all high six figure. salary positions, all the. executive level. What do you do if. you're a diversity officer? This is the problem. You find things to do. And this was the problem, so the. first thing was the whole pronoun. police comes in. Well, let's be more. inclusive of all the pronoun piece. and then, hey, let' put in quota. systems that we're going to put in. place. So we hire a certain number.

of people with a submutable. characteristic or that of character. Did everyone buy into the pronoun? Did anyone say I'm not doing that? Yeah, a lot of people did, but this. is the problem as well. A lot of. these went along with it because. they felt if you didn't, then you. could be called out by your HR team. Howardson. And I think that's what's part of. the problem. Now what's nice is that. I think people have the ability to. see you and I'm not gonna do that. But three years ago you couldn't. Three years ago was. The whole thing is designed to do. And what are you really saying, by. the way, if when you announce your. pronouns, what you're saying is it's. not evident to people watching what.

your sex is? Yeah, like your pat or something. from Saturday Night Live. You may not know this, but I'm a. man. Like you can't tell by looking. at me, but I am actually a man, it's. like the most degrading thing. I can imagine. I completely agree. And I don't know. And if you're unsure, just ask how. are you doing? That's it. You don't even have to use a pronoun. if you are unsure. But I think for 99% of the time, you're pretty sure. And that's the. problem. It's forcing this sort of. agenda on 99%. of the population. It says, wait a. minute, what is this? I didn't know. what this was. I didn't know what this was. But the people who work there, I mean, now I'm being mean, but I've.

lived it, so I feel it. Like, there were so few noble, honest, brave people in. American corporate culture that. I was shocked, was shocked by. what sheep they were. You'd think at least 20%. would be like, buzz off, I'm not. giving you my, that's disgusting. This is insane. And by the way, you're discriminating. against white men, which is illegal. and immoral. And we've got this monument on the. mall from Luther King telling us you. can't do that, but you're doing it. anyway in his name. You know, why don't you go screw yourself. actually. Yeah. I don't think anybody said that.

There were a couple of brave people. How disappointing. But the brave people who stuck their. neck out, I mean, they were of this. rate in the media. The first guy. actually was Brian Armstrong, he was the CEO of Coinbase. Oh, I remember, very well. And this is at the end of 2020, right after all of the BLM and. everything. And Brian Armstrong. said, listen, I'm not gonna tie it. to the BLN movement. I'm gonna make a statement that. we're in support of. Tied this exactly right. Of BLM, I not gonna do that either. He said, because the mission of our. company Coinbase is to bring crypto. to the masses. That's what we're. doing. And if there's something related. to crypto regulation or policy,

sure, we'll have a view on that. But am I going to have a view on. climate change or BLM. issues or transgender policy? No, I'm not. And by the way, if you as an. employee don't want to be. here, then go work somewhere. else. And I think they had, I don't. know, 50 employees or something. walked out. but then he had 5,000. people that applied to work there. Oh yeah. But in the media though, he was called bigoted and he was. called racist and he called, you. name it, all in the media because of. him just having a view that says I'm. just not going to do this because.

that's not important to the company. and I want people to come here and. work for our mission, not. necessarily for all these orthogonal. things that have nothing to do with. Yes. Out of the masses. It's funny how much just telling the. story would, I mean, of course, I. remember when it happened. I defended. him when it happen, but it. seems like you're talking about a. different country. Like things have. changed so much. So much. Is that, that's my perception. Is it yours it is things. that things have definitely swung. back, but as I mentioned earlier, it's almost as if we're going into. I would say it's a must three camps. with the purpose of business in.

this country and in business getting. involved in social political ESG. DI topics you have the people that. have backed off because they said. you know what? Getting involved in lies political. and social it wasn't good for. My company from the stock standpoint. wasn't because I've lost money or. divided my customer base It wasn't. really good for the country there. You've seen meta and. and McDonald's and Walmart and. Apple or not Apple, sorry, Google, a. lot of people have rolled back on. those policies. You have a second group of companies. that are trying to kind of rebrand.

the whole sort of DEI narrative. They haven't realized it's become a. pejorative term to the majority of. Americans. They're calling it. inclusivity, inclusivity and. belonging or I don't know all these. other words they're trying to mash. together. I would put probably the JP. Morgan's and, I don't know, those. folks in that boat. But then you have the real. adherence, and these are the people, the Philip Morris internationals. Even today, I mean, Anna Hazar Bush. InBev on their website for. the UK, big DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion piece, because I think you do have these. real adherents. And then even.

certain companies in the United States, I mean Costco is doubling down big. time. I think partly because they're. based in Seattle. And because I- Costco. Costco has doubled down big-time. That's like a warehouse store where. you buy stuff by the pallet kind of. thing. That's it, that place has. doubled-down massively, talking. about that we're gonna continue to. have. quota systems about who we. actually give preferential treatment. to, to who gets their products in. store based off race or sex or. gender. Seriously? Yeah, they've been doubling down on. this. So they're one of the companies. that has kind of dug their heels in. I hope they go out of business soon. So, but it's really, so I, and the. way that I think about, I think the. companies that have just moved on, I.

think we need to get them more to, I'll go back to a corporate. pluralism of whatever your. mission is as a company, just do. that. And however you need. to recruit people, you know, the. best and brightest to your industry. figure out how to do that. I would say probably move on from. the DEI. And I don't think we can say that. the United States is civil rights. law at that point If you're openly. discriminating against people on the. basis of the race, then all the. civil rights act, it's all bullshit. No, no, that means anything. And so like let's. just stop pretending.

Okay, so if Costco wants to continue. with racist policies Then. I guess everyone gets to have racist. policies if they want on. whatever basis of any race they want. like You know what I mean? It's it's a principle. So either you're. Against and in fact banning through. federal law discrimination on the. bases race or you're not. No, in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it literally says, like, you cannot. discriminate... Oh, I'm aware. ...because of race, sex, gender, national origin, etc. And, you know, a thousand subsequent. laws and regulations. underscore that point, so. And you know, this is funny. So actually the Senate, the.

floor manager at the time was Hubert. Humphries, who became Lyndon. Johnson's VP. He was one who was ushering through. the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He said, and this is his quote, he. says, if this leads to quota. systems, I will eat my hat. This is what's his quote. And that's exactly what we-. He's been dead too long to do it, but yeah, no, it kind of wrecked the. country permanent Washington is. terrified and distraught by the. Trump revolution now in progress and. it is a revolution and it's. Unfolding along very familiar lines. The White House is now giving voters.

what they actually want and. what they've wanted for a long time. And that's the one thing that. permanent Washington doesn't want to. give them They. are working to stop it. Fortunately our friends at heritage. the heritage foundation DC are. fighting back They've spent years. thinking this through How do you. dismantle permanent D.C.? The deep structures underneath. everything. How do train replacements for the. bureaucrats getting canned? How do enact policies that voters. actually voted for? Well, now that Biden is gone, Heritage's vision is finally. becoming reality and you can help. push it forward by going to.

heritage.org slash Tucker and. making a tax deductible donation. Your gift fuels their American. rescue plan and helps stop. permanent Washington from crushing. it, from strangling it in the. cradle. Heritage has been doing this. a long time. They've been successful. and they're more aggressive now than. ever. Their work is worth supporting. Go to heritage.org slash Tucker to. make your gift today. We hope you will. So just back to Anheuser-Busch, this disaster happens and. it seems to be, I mean, according.

to the video that everybody saw, it really a product of this one. decision. Well, it's the end of a. chain of a lot of decisions as you. so ably described. But the key decision in. the fall of Bud Light was. by this Alyssa Schneinhauser, whatever her name was, who went to. Harvard. And there's this famous video where. she's saying, basically, I think the old white guys who. drink our beer could use to. be shaken up a little bit. the fratting out of time.

and Bud Light's been fratty and out. of touch. Fratty, and out-of-touch. And I just have to say, I mean, she. didn't run the company, she's head. of the brand, she has supervisors. Someone who worked for me, well, we. sell Alp. And if someone's in a meeting with. me, the problem with Alp. is its users suck, and they've got antique retrograde. attitudes, and we just need to give. them the finger. I would say, you're fired, because you don't love our people. That's it. Exactly. So why did no one say that? But that's, what's crazy is that.

she literally called the. customer base, you know, the fratty. out of touch and like, you know. immediately lost trust with the. whole entire customer base saying, what are you guys talking about? And, and, and do people like to be. lectured? By Alyssa Schneider. And what's crazy about this. So the timeline of events was so. because we're coming up on actually. two years when this happened. So this partnership with that Bud. Light did with Dylan Mulvaney and. controversial transgender actors. happened on April Fools Day of. 2023.

So and a lot of people originally. thought this was a joke of like, oh, this is like Bud Light must be. joking about this because there's no. way that they would ever do a. partnership with somebody who was. literally just Joe Biden's White. House advocating for gender. affirmation care and biological men. to compete against women in sports. But this is all of a sudden Bud. Light's partnership. with this like I don't understand. this. Then two or three days later. that video comes out of Alyssa. essentially being like Bud Light is. fratty and out of touch. We're going to be more out of that. and we're gonna be more inclusive. That's fine. That's a problem. Alyssa was out of touch. I mean, this is who's out of.

I mean, get some self-awareness, honey! I mean, it's crazy with what's. going on. I mean this is how out of. touch I think a lot of the people in. New York became. Where all of a sudden they're. saying, no, no, our customers. are out of the touch. We need new customers. and the new customers are gonna be. whoever follows Dylan Mulvaney on. Instagram, which I think was. actually like, mostly like underage. girls. It was like, cause there were literally all. of these now investigations going on. saying, wait a minute, you guys. sponsored Mulvany who just has a. bunch of underage followers? Like what are you guys doing? This.

makes no sense. Dressed like a. child? I mean, some dude. dressed like a little girl, first of. all, who's looking into that guy's. personal life? You know, like, that's dark. But anyway. Yeah, so the partnership. itself was it was obviously. incredibly flawed. Is it true that Dillamovania is like. a huge Zen user? Someone told me that he loves Zen. I don't know, I've never met Dylan. I don' know if that's true or not. You should have Dylan on the show so. you can figure it out. Know what? You should, you should have done it. I keep. hearing. Keep hearing, and I have no idea if. it's true, I'm not endorsing this, but that Philip Morris and Zinn.

are hiring Dylan Mulvaney. I don't know if that's true. I don't know. I mean, based off what. I saw on their website, I think it. would make perfect sense. I mean they're almost becoming the. Ben and Jerry's of-. 100%. I mean that's what it is. And actually, you know what? That's fine. I don' want that in my mouth, okay? I just don't. You know what, I. actually respect Ben and Jerries. as a brand because they at least. stand. They're very clear about what. they stand for. I completely agree. They say, we're gonna use ice cream. to advance a socially progressive. mission. Hey, in this country, you can do. that. If there's a customer base for. that, go do that, serve that- I. couldn't-. I couldn't agree more. I find their ideas repugnant, but I. respect their bravery and their.

principle. Their ice cream's like unbelievable. I'm going to get diabetes if I eat. it again, but it's really good. And they're consistent in their. views. And I appreciate that. But like a company like Zinn or AB, like you had no idea that they. were, you know, spending money on causes that like, you know in direct conflict. with your own family. Like these people hate your family. and you're buying their products. And this was the whole deal. So like, obviously the partnership. itself made no sense, but the. response to it was just as harmful. And that was just this problematic.

Really? Because if you recall that. there was a, so, you know, listen, it goes on the TV where she's. fratty out of touch, Kid Rock then. lights up a pack of Bud Light. with an AR-15, which was a big deal. So then all of a sudden you have all. of these sort of people saying, you. now, screw Bud Light, people posting. videos of them not buying it. Then the company said, hey, there was a quick press release. saying, yes, we do partnerships with. influencers to celebrate milestones. In this case, we did this milestone. of 365 days.

of woman who never was like, what. are you talking about, Bud Light? It's a dude, by the way. These are not women, these are men. dressed as women. The whole thing is so insulting. And in the same way, you probably. wouldn't at that time have sent a. can to Donald Trump to celebrate his. coming in. 100%. Because Bud Light was not a. political brand. And so everyone's really confused. And so the sales just tumbled. What's really- Is that obvious. right away? So yeah, so this is what's really. interesting. It's like boycotts tend. to work for two reasons. And they actually had never worked. almost in history. Everyone talks. about, I hate when the NFL had the. whole kneeling thing going on, but.

NFL ratings were super high. Other people have called it boycott. coming home. It's never worked. But in this case, it worked for two. reason. That's one. If there's a easily accessible. substitute, so if you think. about it, everywhere you can buy Bud. Light. You have Coors Light, you. have Miller Light. I mean, you go to. a gas station, you have Coor's Light. six packs, Miller Light six pack, Bud Light six-packs. And then you also go to bar. You have Miller light on tap, you Bud. Light on tap. And for 95% of Americans, I mean Bud. Light is indistinguishable from. Coors light and from Miller Light, so the substitutes are easily there. Drinking before light beer was a. thing. I never have had a light beer. in my life from men Just did.

not drink light beer when I quit. drinking Is it good, but yeah, I've never. I mean like yeah, but if you like if. you liked light beer, I mean, it's. it's a great light beer It's very. consistent. They have great. brewmasters They have so it's very. good as a product But. so also as course Miller lights, but. it's almost it's like a commodity. of a B of a brand, right? So therefore the only thing you actually. did have was your brand itself. Which Bud lights was funny humorous. and in a political the other reason. that boycotts work is that if you. actually feel like you're having an.

impact and having an effect and. The other thing that happens, which. is interesting the beer industry is. every week You get data that's. reported by Walmart and Kroger. and 7-Eleven and all. these big retailers about what sales. look like. And that's just reported. every week. Usually people don't care about that. at all. I mean, no one ever cares. what the real sales are. But in. this instance, all of a sudden the. media was reporting every single. week that Bud Light sales were down. 10%, 20%, 30%. So it's snowballs. So it starts snowballing. And in Anna's Bush, they can't.

starve the media of information and. data. And so all of a sudden, like Anheuser-Busch is watching. their sales decline a lot. And they realize, wow, we got to do. something. The problem was they always say. they're stuck between this, you. know, the black rock and a hard. place. You know, it's black rock. with saying, hey, you guys need more. DEI and inclusivity. and that's the agenda we're pushing. There are corporations like the. Human Rights Campaign that scores. Anheiser-Bsch every single year. on there. Why would a beer company. Human rights competitors are freaks.

I mean, they're literally freaks and. they're evil, completely evil in my. opinion. It's not about equality, it's about crushing families and. Christianity, obviously. So why would a beer company care. what they think? Well, because the problem was, again, BlackRock, State Street. Vanguard, who are technically these. large shareholders of your business, they have adopted ESG and DI, and they're saying, if you want to. get included in our ESG indexes, or like Bloomberg, Bloomberg has a. gender equality index. If you want get included into these, you guys need to have a perfect. score on the human rights campaign.

Man, if I'm the Chinese, I'm. encouraging this a lot. just wreck your opponent. with this stuff. It's insane, it made no sense. And when the human rights campaign. started, I don't know, 20 years ago, the whole thing was like, okay, I. donno, don't make fun of, I dunno, LGBTQ plus, okay fine. I was never against human rights. campaign. I worked like a block from. them for 15 years in downtown. DC on 17th Street. I was ever against them at all. I was like, okay, I'm for civil. liberties, including for gays. I'm not against that at all, I am. for it. But it became incredibly.

rigid. It wasn't about that at at. all it was about destroying American. society, which they have done a lot. to achieve. and that's the end of the video. And now to get these perfect scores, then you had to have so many. commercials that advertised and. to do lgbtq plus you have to do the. all the gender affirmation stuff in. your health. You gotta sell gay beer. I mean, that was essentially like. what it was becoming. And even the company itself, they. were trying to win these con line. awards over in Europe. And so we. used to always think, our. advertisement was, did you win the. USA Today Super Bowl ad meter award? That showed you were in touch with. the American consumer.

And from 2003 to. 2013, Anna's Bush won it every. single year. Then when they brought in new European. ownership and new marketers, all of a sudden, they didn't win it. for 10 plus years. and what they tried now start. winning and showing they won these. con line awards, which over in. Europe, they have these awards in. con France and to win the con. line advertising awards, you have to. have your DEI and your ESG. policies and you have to do. all of the advertisements that are. essentially. You sell beer, why do you? care about an award in Cannes, France. You shouldn't, but again, to.

get included in the Black Rock State. Street Vanguard indexes for. ESGDI, you can highlight your awards. that you won from ConLion. You can highlight you're perfect. score from the Human Rights. Campaign. You can highlight your award. So these are just all control. mechanisms run by people like Larry. Fink, like the worst people in the world. I mean, there was a whole, I call. the stakeholder capital industrial. complex and everybody was just. trying to make money. McKinsey, they were the big. consulting firm. I mean they had this again, this. diversity matter, diversity wins. report to sell consulting services. for DEI. BlackRock had a whole DEI.

component to put people into certain. funds to charge investors more. money. You had a lot of activists. that they wanted to show that they. were could get more money from Soros. or whoever else that they're making. progress by putting up. actually activist proposals at. companies that shareholders would. then vote on. So it was this big almost like. industrial complex just kept feeding. on itself. To destroy the. meritocracy. and destroy the United States. I mean, essentially, like, that's. where we were going. So it destroys the country? If you don't have a meritocracy, if. the best people can't rise because. they're the wrong color or the wrong. sex, then your country collapses.

And almost, I mean, Bud Light was. essentially holding the pin when. this whole, I mean, bubble popped. They were, this was the first time. that people saw like, wait a minute, you know, okay, I didn't like when. Disney got involved in the parental. rights issues down in Florida, but. you know Disney is always kind of a. little, a little out there and. didn't make any sense that Disney. was getting involved in this year. Well, it's the same. Attitudes seem. but kind of same attitude, but. the problem with Disney is that, okay, you know, I don't like Disney, but there's only one Disney world. I don t really have a lot of other. places to go, so I'm still going to. go to Disney, but with Bud Light, people easily went to Course Light.

And so, going back to. this whole story about why the. response was so damaging. Can I just ask, since you worked. there and you've written a book on. it? And I had left by this point, so. Right, of course, but I mean. Of course, but I mean, you know the business. Yes, yes, yes. What's the right, before you explain what they did, what's the answer? So you're running Anheuser-Busch. right now, this happens, it's a huge threat to your core. business, which is selling beer. Yeah. How do you, what do you do? I mean, like the answer is so. simple. The first thing you do is. that you fire the VP of marketing. who just called your entire.

customer base fratting it out of. touch. And then you say we fired. her because that was obviously not. empathetic to our customers and not. core business. You hate our. customers, you can't work here. You can't here, like just like, done, like out. And then separately, like, the. biggest piece is like, then you just. apologize. You know, I always say it's like the. path. But it's like, it's the path to. like, I always say like redemption. goes through forgiveness, but the. only way you're going to be forgiven. is if you admit you have made a. mistake. And then what you say is. like, Hey, this was obviously a.

mistake that this person made. And so we've moved on from this. person because we've made a mistakes. hiring this person, putting them in. And then separately, also we made a. Mistake as Bud Light. We made a mistake because Bud. Light was never supposed to be. involved in controversial political. issues. And Dylan Mulvaney was not. the right choice of a person to. get involved with, because there are. things, I mean, if you recall. as well, the week that. this partnership happened, this was. during the time when a lot of. legislation is in session. So there were, I think, 25 bills. across the country to ban biological.

men from playing as women in sports. There was a bunch of bills banning. gender transformation care. And also leading up to this week, that was the week that you had the. transgender shooter in the Christian. school. Yeah, the Who's Manifesto we weren't. allowed to see. Right, exactly. So I mean, this was like a very big. issue across the entire country. right now. So violent group, whoa. So this is why there was a lot of. problems with Dylan Mulvaney who had. become kind of the face of really. the very progressive transgender. movement and why Bud Light never. should have done the partnership in. the first place. And say like, because Bud Light was. always about fun and music and. sports, it's like, we should have never.

had this person as a sponsorship. They shouldn't have Donald Trump as. a sponsor either. They should. Just so that's for some. Bud Light now. You sell beer. Just sell your beer. We're going to. get back to selling beer. Guys, we screwed up. We apologize. We want our customers. back. We're selling beer, end of. story. The problem is they couldn't. do that because they'd made all. these other commitments to the human. rights campaign, who they tried to. highlight every single year in their. annual ESG report that they. had a perfect score on it. They had made... But the human. rights campaign is like... They're not big shareholders of AB.

They have no right to run. a beer company. But they're a stakeholder of AB and. that becomes the problem you have. They have no moral legitimacy. Even if you love the human rights. campaign, which is totally evil, just that's my opinion, having known. them, but even if you loved. them, why did they. get a veto over. the behavior of a huge publicly. traded company? It's just like. It all just feeds. on itself. It's called the. stakeholder capitalism industrial. complex. But the stakeholder are. really the beer drinkers.

But that's the problem. That became the least... We can. insult them! Your customer became sort of the. lowest priority, which is the. problem! NO SHIT. It made zero sense and. then so so again this partnership. originally happened on April 1st on. April 15th That's when you have the. CEO for the first time getting. Brendan Whitworth who I know, you. know very well He made a. first public essentially response. and it's almost this comical letter. I think it was called like our. letter to America or something where. it never acknowledged the situation. they were in.

They never acknowledged the. controversy, never mentioned Dylan. by name. It was just a, hey, we're going to. get back to brewing beer and here's. a video of Clydesdale riding across. America. And I mean, as you can imagine, the outrage was palpable, both on the right and their little. customers that were like, wait a. minute, we wanted that exact kind of. apology and hey, we fired the person. I just gave. but then now you have all these. people on the left that are saying, wait a minute, I wanted you guys to. say you're gonna be, become like Ben. and Jerry's. You know, I want you. guys to be doing more of the. Dylan campaign. And so all of a sudden, the company.

actually, its sales declined even. more. And funny enough- Is. he still there? He's still there, which is crazy. Everyone is still there. There's been. zero accountability for this. Despite the fact- I don't wanna say. so. I don't know the guy, I've. met him and talked to him, former. CIA guy, he told me, right? Extremely physically fit. As most CEOs I've meet, and particularly, the more. disconnected from manufacturing they. are, the more finance-oriented. they are the better physical. condition they're in.

Just cut jaw lines, they all play. lacrosse in Middlebury, they're. always on the- The guy looks like. G.I. Joe. 100%. I'm not against physical fitness, I. could use a little more myself. But that doesn't seem like a. relevant criterion if you're. choosing a CEO and yet every, Larry Fink is kind of pudgy, so I'm. on his side for that. But it feels like whoever's doing. the hiring here is doing it based on. appearance. And these are white. people mostly, so it's not. DEI exactly, but it is a. form of DEI. Like why, like that guy. seemed like every other CEO.

I've met in the last 10 years, vapid, afraid, completely. terrified. so you could smell the. fear on the guy. obsessed with his physical. appearance, and totally lacking creativity. Are those fair descriptions? That was just my reaction. Reaction from spelling. That's amazing. I mean, you, you you. spent one evening with him. I spent, I don't know. I've known. Brendan for 10 years, 50 years. I'm not saying he's like a terrible person, I- I-. You know, I-. I don't know that, but he. is definitely, and I hate to single. him out, though he is a former CIA.

guy, which should be disqualifying. right there, but, oh, I'm. sorry, but like, he seemed emblematic of an. entire class of people who, in my pretty extensive experience. around them, are. deeply unimpressive. Like, I would not hire any of them. to do anything in my life. I mean, I think the bigger piece is. it's the lack of courage. And I think we saw this a lot with a. lot of CEOs. And I Think especially with Brendan. Ware. So he reported into a. global CEO, which is this guy, Michelle Dukaris, who's European.

and kind of. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I think this is, this is. again, some like French. mastermind. But it's a little bit of that where, where Brendan, all of a sudden, like, and he knew to take a hard. stand and say, you know what, we. screwed up. We're firing this. person. We apologize. And we're gonna get back to doing. Bud Light commercials that are fun. and humorous, whatever else. And he didn't do it. And he doesn't do that first time in. April. There was another really, But. so how does he keep his job? Well, I'll get back that in a. second. But then like, this was. really telling. There was, Going.

into July 4th weekend of 2023, this is the biggest beer selling. weekend of the year. Bud Light sales. had tanked down 30, 40%. The stocks lost $40 billion in. market cap. The business had gone from making $6. billion. It lost how much? It lost $4 billion in the market. cap, $4.4 billion of market cap! And then the stock was around $70 a. share when this happened and went. down to $40. So how can this? So how can this Alyssa chick and the. CIA dude still, I mean, how could. they ever work again in American. business? A list was placed on leave at some. point along this, she's actually now.

working for a live in the live tour, the Saudi golf tour, which is like, I swear to God, I feel like you. can't make this up. Actually, I sort of got. Yeah, I swore to God. So it's, it's at least that are. LinkedIn is working for the live. Saudi golf tours. So anyway, that's the, we can get to. that in a second. So we'll get to the second, but the, uh, so going to July 4th, we get 20, 23 For the first time, Brendan goes on national TV. And he goes on CBS and he. has this live interview where he's. gonna try and get this back on track.

because he's now missed twice with a. response and it's only antagonized. people and things have gotten worse. So he goes onto CBS and one of the. hosts, first off says, hey, thank. you for being here because most. people in your seat, they would have. run for the hills. I mean, after. what we've seen with millions of. customers losing, leaving you, billions of dollars being lost. But they say, hey the question. everyone wants to know is was this. partnership a mistake and would you. do it again? And he gives some real wishy-washy, mealy-mouthed answer. Well, there's a lot of things going. on in the world and culture and this. and that. And after 30 seconds of kind of.

wavering around, the host comes back. and says, to be clear, like you do. realize the answer you just gave is. the reason why millions of people. have left, billions of dollars have. been erased. Let me ask again, was. this campaign a mistake and would. you do it again? And again, he gives a completely. evasive- $40 billion. loss and he can't say it's a bad. idea. Can't say, it's about idea. And what's crazy is that literally. that exact same week Dylan. and yeah, I only I can't I feel bad. for Dylan in this whole thing. because the Dylan eventually comes. out and says hey If you can't. stand by like a transgender, you.

know person then don't do the. campaign. Don't do it You know, that's worse than not hiring. somebody at all But like just don't. it and so Dylan. essentially said it was a mistake. because they couldn't stand buy it. Larry think that week at the Aspen. Ideas Festival says I'm not using. the term ESG anymore because it's. become too Controversial and. and it's lost its meaning and you. have this now CEO of one of the. most iconic companies in the United. States and Heizer Bush can't make. a direct response about a campaign. that has cost this company billions. of dollars millions of customers, they had to fire thousands of.

employees after this supplier shut. down. Not the CIA guy. He kept his job. But he's kept his. jobs still. I mean, he's still kept his. I don't understand that. Like. where's does the company have a. board? Well, this is a problem, but it's a. European based board. So it's based over in Europe. It's based in Belgium. They still abide by a lot of these. different philosophy. And this is where we're coming into. an issue So what's the point of. having a head of the company and. president of the company? If you're just going to be a puppet, that's the problem. And that's where I almost think that. for a lot of companies, I think Anna. specifically, I think their company. is actually better off probably.

selling its U S business unit at. this point, because I don't think. you can serve this European system. Well, it is, but I. think people love a great American. comeback story. I agree. Like they do. And, but to make that story, you. have to admit again that there was a. mistake and that you screwed up and. then you've taken accountability for. it. and that we now have a different. plan. It doesn't matter how much. money the company has subsequently. spent on, I mean, it's a hundred million dollars for. Dana White and the UFC. They've hired Shane Gillis. They've hire Peyton Manning. They've done all these things to try.

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Um, and it's probably so was true. as of last year, you know, he was, doesn't, doesn' run the company. anymore as August Bush. I always push the third. Yeah, the third, the 3rd. What are the best meetings I've ever. been in my entire life? It was. amazing. That guy's unbelievable. He's unbelievable, I can tell. stories, but yeah, he's an. unbelievable person, but he, and this may be true today, he's. a older man, mid-80s anyway, but he was still tasting Budweiser. beer every single week. They send him every. single US product and he. tastes it. He's one of six or seven,

you know this because you work there. And the people who founded that. company, that family, you. could say a lot of things about the. family and this big, fractious. family with all kinds of stories, but they all love beer. Like they truly love beer. They drink their beers. Like they think that Bud Light's an. amazing beer. And they think, you know, Bud. Heavy's a great beer. Like they're. into the product. And it just feels like that's a. correct, like I. use Alp from the second I wake up to. the second, I go to bed. That's what happens. That's why we own the company, cause. I love it. And I think if.

you don't have that spirit, if the head of Philip Morris doesn't. even smoke Marlboro Reds, get. out. If you're embarrassed of what you. do, don't do it. I completely agree. I mean, the Budweiser, he said they. almost had Budweisers in their. veins. I think there was a whole. story that when you're, when you. were born, they let you give you a. thimble. The first thing I think you drink. And if you've got a problem with it, don't work there. That's it. Why is that hard? If you go to church and like the. priest is like, well, actually I'm an. atheist. It's like, okay, I'm not. saying you should go to jail for. atheism, but I don't think you. should be preaching in a church.

Yeah, so so completely agree and I. think that's one of the problems. that we have is that even here and. there's a bunch of other brands as. well I mean like jeeps another great. one jeeps owned by now Stellantis. Which is based over in the. Netherlands and you're talking about. man If you're gonna have an American. brand like jeep should that really. be owned by the Europeans if they. just have a completely different. Philosophical system and they just. had the European mindset. This is very different tiny little. electric cars gay cars. It's so weird. You might be seeing a little mini. Jeep. Yes, yes. I have an eight-year-old daughter. She used to have one of those like.

Barbie Jeeps. Big Jeep plus Stonewall Jeep. That's it, that's it. I mean, I'm not like go make a. stonewall Jeep if you want, but like. there should be this like a regular. Jeep, too. Yeah. And that's okay. And give that customer that regular. Jeep as well. And so I don't know, this is, this. is where I think also these. companies also need to go to, I. actually think another company. actually did like a pretty good job. of navigating a lot of the culture. wars. It's actually Netflix, a lot. credit. If you remember, there was two or. three years ago, Netflix getting a. lot of pressure to cancel Dave.

Chappelle. Remember when there was. this Dave Chappell special? Well, they wanted to ca-. consultation. Well, a lot of other people wanted. to cancel Dave Chappelle, because. he had jokes about the LGBTQ, but. in a million other communities, by. the way, I mean, Dave Chappell. doesn't leave anybody unscathed. And there was a lot. It was tough. on the trans thing though he's like. this is this is not right. I mean he like yeah he was. tough wasn't just mocking he was. like men cannot become women period. sorry I'm a Muslim I'm not doing. this. But yeah. His that's hey, it's freedom of. speech in the country. No, I'm a hundred percent Dave. Spells side I'm just saying he was.

it was more than just a joke like he. he was serious about it. I think. And the thing I at least give. Netflix credit for is when all of. this was going on, they were told to. cancel Chappelle, they came out with. this culture of excellence document. And this culture excellence document. essentially said, like, we are not. going to censor artists at Netflix. We are going to put out content for. liberals, conservatives, whatever, you kind of name it and people will. watch whatever they want to watch, but we are going censor it at. Netflix. And if you have an issue. with that, then go work somewhere. else. And I actually give Netflix a. lot of credit for that because they're.

based in I agree with everything. else, and that's great. They employ the Obamas. Yeah, that's it, play that, but then. also, well, I guess it was Amazon. that picked up the Melania Trump. deal, but great, like put it all out. there. I mean, who cares? America's watch whatever they want. And so I give them a lot of credit. for that. I think that that's also. where Anheuser-Busch kind of needs. to go as well is to say, listen, we. have a whole portfolio of beers. I mean hell, we've King Cobra 40. ounce bottles that is for a circuit. person. We also have craft breweries like. Goose Island. So they make King. Cobra 40s, and again,

I don't drink, I'm opposed to. alcohol, but I love that I live in a. country that still makes King Coba. 40s. I do, I do. I can't help it. And I assume that is, I assume they weren't pushing Dylan. Mulvaney on King Cobra drinkers. Uh, no, they were not putting on a. game key. That's the way they were. doing it. That would be hilarious. No, that would be a hilarious. So. that would, maybe they should. Maybe that would. That'd be amazing. Bring that back. That would. A pin up of Dylan Mulvaney on a King. Cobra. If Alyssa Schopenhauer or. whatever her name is like. I think King Cobra drinkers are. out. of touch.

That would take some balls. Yeah, that would. That'd be amazing. That would take some balls. That. takes some balls! Yeah, but they also have Goose. Island and Goose island in Chicago. They have a sounds queer. I'm in IPA and fine You're in. Chicago and and that's what people. want great. Give them to those. folks. You're good as well. I've never had it I don't know. There's a beer advocate thing that. just is one of these websites that. wait rates beers. They say it's great So great They. can do that as well. By the way, I haven't had a. beer in almost 25 years, but. someone, the head of the athletic. brewing company, which is not a. sponsor of the show, by the way.

He just sent me a couple cases of. it. Have you ever had that? Oh, yeah. I have it. I haven't in my, um, uh, I. actually treated emails. That's the best thing I've ever had. It's, it's great. So I like a lot. I actually traded emails with, uh. with Bill Schufeld, who's the CEO. That's exactly what a good guy. Yeah. Great guy. So it's funny cause. I, he's done an amazing job and I. respect the company. The product is just so good. Product is very good. Great product. I, uh I wrote a post. He got almost a billion dollar. valuation for this company in his. latest round. And I just disagreed with the. valuation. I do some consumer. investing. So I wrote a post about.

like, hey, great job. Kudos, congratulations. Here's why I don't think it's gonna. be a $3 billion company. He had some issues with my post, but. you know, but. I said, hey I respect. you've done. and I just, you know, don't think. you're gonna be a three billion dollar company. Prove me wrong. I don't know anything. I don't know anything about, I like him, nice guy. Again, they are not. sponsors of this show, but. he's totally focused. on the product. Yeah, that's it. Like he just thinks. it's the best product ever. He just thinks that it's amazing and. he's right, it is. Yeah, it's great product. It tastes just like regular beer. I think it's better than why I. haven't had a beer in a while, but.

it's really good. I had four at dinner the other. night. Yeah, they're great. Which ones you have? The product. good for me. I donno, he sent me all. kinds of different, one was called. Tucker actually. Yeah, it was I think was a wheat. beer. It was the least good, but. they were all. but they were all, they were. amazing. Yeah, and it's opened up what his. non-alcoholic beer used to, I mean, it was terrible. And they really never had one. It was so bad. It felt so degrading. It was kind of a joke. Now that feels like a Dylan Moxley. You know what I mean? Like, go ahead, Dylan, you love. the... That's what it was. That was essentially what.

non-alcohol beer was. And he totally just reframed what. it can be, where it can good, cool, you have it after a run, you feel. better. Like actually delicious. Actually delicious. And there's this whole movement now. I mean, it's crazy. My, even though I'm. categorized a millennial, I like to. identify as the greatest generation. here, Tucker, but I think I'm. characterized as a millennia. But my core, I think 80% of us used. to drink alcohol when we were in our. 20s. And now that Gen. Z is in their 20s, only 60% of them is drinking. alcohol. Is that true? Yes, I mean, there's been a massive.

drop off in the number of people. drinking alcohol, and then across. all cohorts, Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X, Boomers, everyone's generally. drinking less also, because people. are just becoming more health conscious. So he's doing a great job of picking. up a lot of those people that still. like the taste of beer or the. occasion of beer, but they just. don't wanna drink a six pack of beer. and feel like trash. We forgot how good hops are. Yeah, they're great. Hops are amazing, and hops exist for a lot of reasons, but one is to counterbalance the. taste of alcohol because alcohol. does not taste good. Right. If you take the alcohol out, the hops just, pardon the pun,

flower into this amazing, now I'm getting very out. of control, but like this bouquet of. flavor. I'm getting very Delamoveini now, but like, yeah. And actually, beer complements food. a lot better than wine does, because. it's so diverse. Because you have lagers, and. porters, and stouts, and IPAs, usually with wines, you kind of red. and white, and that's about it. But there, it actually does a much. better job with food. Have you ever seen Alyssa. Schopenhauer, or whatever her name. is, Alyssa German name from Harvard, and then CIA guy CEO, have you ever. see them drink beer at lunch?

Um, probably not at lunch. I don't know. I feel, uh, but it was more of like a, you know, he would drink Budweiser like here. and there, maybe one or so. But I think he was much more into. the, you know, muscle milk and that. was kind of his, you know, his. thing. So come on now. But I, I don, I dunno, man. And again, it's, it, it British should have been more courageous. Um, I know, like the guy, he. took a company was doing $6 billion. of profits and now doing 4 billion. of profits. I mean, just there. you've lost $2 billion. We're still here. That's the. problem. I d- I- what i- what.

is that? You say like okay, he's a problem. He's clearly a puppet and he's. terrified and I again I don't mean. to attack him personally though. Of course I am but sure he's not a. bad guy I'm sure his wife and kids. like him, but. It does seem like. The people pulling his puppet. strings. That's obviously true. Yeah, they have an interest in. making money Like I don' understand. the total lack of accountability in. corporate America. Yeah. I think so no one's ever fired it. It's like the US military. Well, but I think this is this part. of it again when you're control this. European corporation I think they're.

doing a good thing by trying to get. involved in pushing more of the. political issues Also, I think. there's something to be said is that. when you I don't reach a certain. level of wealth and money in your. You know billionaire type class. Well, that's it. You want to be part. of the right social circles in that. scene That's it And I think that's. part of because the whole company is. more controlled by these Belgian. families and a couple Brazilian. families As well and now their kids. are on the board and I think it's. just being in the right. I bet their kids are pretty great, right? I. But but billionaire kids, let's. put some billionaire kids on the. board. Yeah, James Murdoch.

in the board. You know, so this is the bigger. issue. And then what's even funny. about Brendan, I mean, you almost. feel bad for Dylan, you almost felt. bad for Brendan because Kid Rock. actually went on a Rogan show and. essentially he had a big. conversation with Brendan as well. And he was talking about how, you. know, Kid Rock was making fun of him. for the whole CBS interview he did. And he's like, I don't get it, man. Like, why did you just get up there. and you were like a puppet? And essentially this Kid Rock's. words and telling the story was. like, Brendan said he was coached. He was like yeah, I was coach. I had. to say what I had say. I think that's what's problematic.

And again, this is where you come. back this fundamental just like. disconnect between the american sort. of way in american business and the. european way he was. but it doesn't work, no one is. served. So you have to ask like, what actually is this? So the company is not served, its. employees are not served. Its consumers are not serve. Poor Brendan, who's just like a. hapless bystander to his own life, guzzling mussel milk and hitting the. elliptical. He's not, he's humiliated. And then the shareholders lose $2. billion a year. So like, who is winning. here? And you've got to think that.

maybe this is part of a bigger play. to destroy the West. I've thrown that out there. I mean, who. Who's winning? It's again, I think a. lot of the board members who China's. winning. China's probably winning in. this thing I don't know if this is. like as much of a China is when I. know they have much to with this. This is more of this. But all this stuff, Black Lives. Matter help zero black people except. the ones who stole the money from. Apple, okay? Except the big lavish. mansions that were built. Exactly, no, but it didn't help black people. I'm all for helping everybody, okay, but it did help black. It didn't helped Kenosha, Wisconsin,

which is destroyed, never will be. rebuilt. Didn't help all the. Hispanic families who live in. Kenosia. It didn' help. anybody, actually. It didn help anybody. Trans, how many happy trans. people are there? Zero. That does not help actually. It just denies people grandchildren. It's, I don't know, it's hard to see. who the winners are. Like in an armed robbery, there's the victim, there's a liquor. store owner, okay, he gets shot. But then the guy who takes his money. gets the money. So he wins.

So like, I'm not endorsing that of. course, but there's logic. to it. But some of the biggest. social trends in the United States. don't seem to have any winners. And that freaks me out. Well, but again... But I think the winners are more of. the China's, the Europe, et cetera, because if you almost think about. it, I mentioned this earlier, but. the U.S. was always exceptional. It's always been the city upon a. hill that people are going to go to, it's always unique and distinct and. different. And there have been, you know, it. has always been radical ideas in the. United States to have free speech. and American capitalism and freedom.

of religion. These have all been radical idea for. a long time and that's allowed us to. become most successful, prosperous, you name it country. And I think that there's been ways. that sort of the Europeans, the. Chinese, others, they've been able. to infiltrate that and try and. rebalance, I mean, going into a, you. know, the so-called like oppressor. versus oppressed framework, like for. the rest of the world, this U.S. was always this oppressor type. country, we're always oppressed, how. do you rebalance? Well, you try and social engineer. and you try- You get the country to. kill itself. Yeah, I meant that's. the way that, that's essentially the. way you do it.

Doesn't seem that way. It does seem that way, if you're thinking. long-term. And by the way, I don't. mean to blame China. I don' hate China, I respect China. And they're acting in what they. think is their own interest, which I. think is what countries ought to do. But I'm not blaming them for, you know, Melissa Schopenhauer or whatever her. name is, Alyssa, sorry. I'm just gonna let you just keep. going because I love everyone, everyone's great, I'm. not gonna correct it all. The German lady from Harvard. The German lady from Harvard, the CIA. guy who drinks muscle milk. I'm not blaming China for their.

personal inadequacies, their mediocrity, whatever. That's their fault. But big picture, like it's just. like, what is going on here? Yeah, I mean, so I think that is. what's going on, is that you have, obviously, governments that. are antagonists towards the United. States are trying to, China, Europe, et cetera, trying to kind of. pull us back, tear us down. But even a lot of these other. companies as well, unfortunately, just have a different. view of what business should be, and. I don't think it's gonna be good for.

the business units in the US. It's bad for everybody. It's for everybody, yeah. I was with someone the other day who knows. Larry Fink really well and I said. Boy, I I think Larry. Fing has really been damaging to the. country to the world and this. person said, you know I feel sorry. for Larry think why why do you feel. sorry? He's the single unhappiest. person. I'm not surprised by that. Like, what's the point in making. billions of dollars if you're. miserable? But here's because he doesn't have. any principles. Because if you take a look at. BlackRock, it's just been blowing in. the wind over the last couple of. years. When it was all about.

the ESG and stakeholder capitals, and we're going to hold that flag, and we are going to carry it. But then as soon as people just with. first principles think about saying, guys, you're violating your. fiduciary obligation, because I just. asked you to make money for me, not. do social engineering policies that. are losing money for my. And so when all of a sudden people. started pulling their money from. them, they got pulled in front of. Congress by a bunch of politicians. Now all of a sudden Larry Fink is. backing away and says I don't say. ESG anymore. He pulled DEI off their website over. the last couple of days. But why do all these people hate the United States? Like the hostility you feel from. someone like Larry Fink toward the.

US is like unmistakable. It's like you're mad at the United. states, but you're American and you. can only have done what you did in. this country with all of our. legal protections and all the. freedoms that you have. Like why declare war on your own. country? And they all have. Yeah, I don't know, it's just. because-. he lines his own pockets along the. way. I guess, but there are lots of. people who can be rich and patriotic. too. You could even, I don't. know, be unscrupulous in business. and be patriotic. I, you know, you used to work at Fox. in, in, uh, in New York. There are a lot of people, um, let. me say, like, I wouldn't say I.

worked in Fox. Who's a cat temp. She's got, she's been, she used to. tell people she worked in the porn. industry instead of for saying Fox. news in New york city. She said, I'm not going to comment on that. I mean but I think especially when. you're in New York if you want to go. to the right schools and go to The. right parties and get your kids into. this and that like you can't be. patriotic in a lot of cases I know. you can stand up and that's. Of course, and I don't mean to. single out Larry Fink. It sounds like he needs our prayers, not our scorn, but. it's that whole leadership class, which is so angry, going.

back to, you know, Melissa Hindenburg or whatever her. name is. Um, sorry, whatever German girl. from Harvard. I can't believe that. hasn't been picked up. Melissa. the Hindenburg ones. I haven't heard that one. No, I was. thinking of Paul von Hi-. not the blimp, but whatever. The last president of Germany. The one who handed it to the Nazis, actually. No, people like. that, and it's not just her, of. course it's an entire class of. people who, I've lived around my. whole life, I know them, and I know. their attitudes, and they're all.

like, they just hate the. country. There's like a gut-level. contempt for the United States. And it's like, what did America ever. do to you, actually, given a ton. of opportunity you made way more. than you deserve? Your life is a lot easier than it. would have been in any other place. What are you mad about? But they all feel that way. No, I agree. It's almost you have to be. apologetic about being. here, and it's. But they work to undermine it. They want to wreck it. Like what's America? It's a meritocracy. It's like, that's the whole promise. of immigration, by the way,

immigration only works with a. meritocracy. It's the smartest, most ambitious, fairest, most decent people around the world. get to move here and just kick ass. Okay, everyone's for that. We're not gonna like move hundreds. of thousands of Haitians into your. neighborhood just to wreck. Like you can't do that. Yeah, you know, I mean the greatest. sort of asset that we have in this. country It is the American dream I. mean that is that is the greatest. asset why people want to move here. why people to invest here if you. want to Be here and there's. a lot of other people that want to. tear down that American dream They.

want to make you feel like it's not. real. But they're all Americans who want. to, I just find it so. strange if they took that. destructive energy and focused it on. our actual enemies, whoever those. might be, you know, they could, we could get a lot done. That stuff is more dangerous than. nuclear weapons. Yeah, well, I think that the. pendulum swinging back. So we got a. lot of people that I finally that's. right You know, I take a lot a brave. people. It's been amazing to see. what's happened in Silicon Valley. over the last year I agree. These are a lot smart bright people. that were afraid to stick their neck. out there I mean, thank God for Elon. that it all sudden came around and. he gave people the the ability to.

put their neck out there also. And the fact that he represents or. owns or runs or whatever his. relationship is Companies that make. things physical things. Yeah, that's why I so sad to see it. happen to a B Because it's like they. actually make a product. You can hold in your hand. And it's a great product, and. whether you like alcohol or not like. alcohol, I mean, Budweiser, to some. degree, it was the American treatment. of bottle. This is the famous Budweiser beer, we know of no other beer that costs. so much to brew and age. Our exclusive Beechwood aging. produces a taste, drinkability, you. will find at no other beer at any. price.

You've got to be the only person who. hasn't drank a beer in 25 years that. can recite that. That's how much beer I drink. How? Is that what it was? For me, it was always a breakfast. beverage, yeah. I was never, you know, I probably. should have worked there because I. was ever embarrassed, well, I mean, I thank Kevin, I quit. drinking, but I was not embarrassed. to drink in the morning, ever. It never even occurred to me. I just grew up in a different world. And I always have felt my whole. life. That's the breakfast of champions. back in the day. If you're embarrassed. to do something, don't do it. Yeah. And so I was always. embarrassed. I'm like, I'd like a. beer, please. I'd have like a Bud Tall Boy, like a. bud tall boy for breakfast with. French toast. You know what I mean?

Just gonna get you an even keel. I've never had a Bud Light in my. life, but I did think. that Budweiser was like a pretty. serviceable beer. It was, it was great beer, very. serviceable beer, great sort of. Americana beer. And again, the history of the. company is amazing. It's almost. intertwined with the history of the. United States. It really started. before the Civil War, which is. crazy. Oh, I know. And then it was a huge supporter in. World War I, World War II, have Folds of Honor Foundation, I. mean, hires thousands of veterans. And so, more long-term, I want the. company to get back. And it was.

intertwined with Americana. And it was intertwined with American political and. labor history. I mean, August Bush III, who is still alive, knew Jimmy Hoffa. Not like post-prison get-murdered. Jimmy Hoff, but like labor leader. Jimmy Hoff. Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, this was at the center as a. huge employer. It was a builder of the middle-class. in this country. They built this. distribution network, a 500. independent family owned wholesalers. across the country, which are. amazing. And all those families got. rich, like everything. Yeah, and. then everyone did incredibly well. And so, I mean, more broadly,

and I know a lot of the wholesalars, and they're all upset about what. happened the last couple of years, because they lost tons of their. business. They had to fire those employees. But. CIA guys still has this job? Yes, which is crazy. And it's even funny as well. So this year he tried to, you know. how beer on menus usually says. domestic or import. Yeah. So he tried to reframe. domestic beer as American beer, which sounds like a great idea, but. if you're not an American owned. company, then where do you put Ann. Asher Bush? Do you put them on the. American beer or on the import beer? I don't know. A lot of times the. import, and I think that's one of. the reasons they should actually. either sell it back to the Bush.

family or sell it back to Warren. Buffett. You know, I. You know, I think it was, I don't. have any special knowledge beyond. what's obvious, but I think the. problem with these family held. companies, like a family. summer house, there's too many. stakeholders, as you say, too many. family members who want the money. And it's hard to keep them going for. that reason. No, I mean, it is now, I mean, even in the Bush family, it's their. credit. I mean they got through four. generations. It's amazing. No, I'm not criticizing them at all. I'm just saying. No I'm not criticizing them at all, I'm just saying at a certain point. the family gets really big. Yeah, they didn't have one in any-. and there are certain members who. want to run it and own it because.

it's their family legacy, it's there. history, and there's certain members. just like, I live in Aspen, send me. the money. Yeah, no, you're right. So you got to find that right. person. At some point, just nepotism. just doesn't work, and there's going. to be somebody outside better. But I think that you can have. actually US ownership, again, of the. business. And whereas, excuse me, Anheuser-Busch. InBev, it's a global company. They have operations in China and. Africa and South America and. everywhere. The US, at this point, is only about, I think, 20%. of their revenue and maybe a quarter. of their profits. So it actually, to me, it makes. tons of sense. And the company this year will do, I. don't know, $4.5 billion.

of called profits. So I think there's somebody like. Warren Buffett could come, and maybe. he buys the thing for $30 to $40. billion. I mean, he's sitting on. $300 billion of cash. And maybe all of a sudden you put. actually, you give actual real. authority to U S leadership. So move it back to St. Louis, move. back to where it was great. town. Yeah. I mean put its whole corporate. headquarters back there, put it back. in the Midwest somewhere. I think that's going to, that would. make a lot of sense. Um, cause otherwise you're going to. continue to have a lot of competitors. coming in and taking jobs and. who knows, or give opportunities to.

folks like yourself. I mean you're already. going after the Zen folks with Alp. so. the Stonewall brand. This is the non-Stonewall brand, it's just out. American lip pill, you can put it in. your mouth, you don't have to worry. about where it's been. It's good. Thank you, that was absolutely. fascinating. Yeah, thank you very much. And then if you don't mind, just. plug it at the end, but talk about. all this in Last Call for Bud Light, which is the book that we just. released on this this past month. So a lot of people to go check it. out. I know you're-. I know your editor, Paul Schwa, one. of my favorite people. He's great. I love Paul. He's the best.

You probably know Keith at Javelin. as well. Certainly do. Yeah. Great to see you. Yeah, thanks Tucker. Thank you.