The Truth About Watergate Told by Someone Who Was Actually There: Geoff Shepard

so the 50th anniversary of Richard. Nixon's resignation as president uh is. in August we're upon it it's right now. um Nixon was by some measures the most. popular president ever elected um and. then into a second term he was gone and. lived the rest of his life in a kind of. disgrace and so as the 50th Anniversary. uh arrives you have to ask yourself is. everything that we think we know about. Watergate true um what did happen happen.

there. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. actually in retrospect it looks very. much like a kind of coup uh against a. sitting and an enormously popular. president was it that well there are. very few people people still around um.

with their faculties who can answer that. definitively and Jeff Shepard is at the. very top of that list he graduated. Harvard Law School in 1969 and went. immediately to work at the White House. as a White House fellow uh and remained. there through the entire Nixon. Administration pretty much um leaving. only uh during the Ford Administration. 1975 toward the end of the Nixon's time. in office he worked as a lawyer in.

Nixon's defense um and had a bunch of. different jobs knew every single. person uh around Nixon and in fact is. the person who transcribed the famous. Nixon tapes uh including the Smoking Gun. tape in fact is the person who named it. The Smoking Gun tape so um probably the. most reliable and certainly best. informed uh narrator of that story and. we are honored to have him here to. assess Watergate on its 50th. Anniversary uh thank you Jeff Shephard. appreciate it it is great great to be.

with you talk it is great and I I I. probably five years ago wouldn't have. been anxious to do this because it felt. historical and of of interest to me but. maybe not of interest to a larger. audience but given everything that we've. seen in Washington in the past say eight. years I think people are reassessing. their understanding of of of recent. history and that would include Watergate. um so if you wouldn't mind just giving. us starting with an overview of what was. Watergate what was the Scandal just give.

us a very crisp timeline of what. happened to President Nixon during that. and then if you would tell us what you. think actually happen and then we can. get into the details of it sure sure it. it is a scandal that unfolds over two. and a half years all kinds of currents. and Eddies and and uh uh items that. aren't core yes the core story of. Watergate is that uh five people were. arrested on the morning of June 17th. 1972 in the water gate office building.

in the offices of the Democratic. National Committee they had bugging. devices on them uh uh they were. photographing. documents uh it turned out one of them. was a former career CIA agent who is. head of security for the Nixon. reelection committee the committee for. the reelection of the president whose. initials spell the word creep so it's. CRP but it's pronounced creep.

uh the other four were. cuban-americans and and uh uh it then. turned out that uh there were two. masterminds from the reelection. committee who were the the overlords of. the break-in so you they were brought to. trial burglary trial uh they were all. convicted uh seven. people uh uh and then it turned out that. there had been an effort to cover up who. else knew because the the the uh uh.

Breakin was planned by the reelection. committee and if you knew about the. planned Breakin you were in trouble too. and there was a cover up because very. important people might have known about. the planned Breakin and we'll go into it. in a in a couple of minutes but the. coverup ultimately failed uh what James. McCord the the CIA uh uh wian uh wrote a.

letter to the judge and said there's. been a cover up people have committed. perjury and the cover up came apart and. people who were close to that or whose. name figured in the Press ultimately. resigned uh uh and it turned out the. coverup was actually run by the. president's own. lawyer uh but it but it it infected. other people on the White House staff so. I I I'll get into my my point of view in. a minute but the end result when.

everything came out and it turned out. the president was taping people in his. Oval Office there was a tape system uh. that had run for two years so the public. concluded I think fairly that if they. got the tapes they could figure out who. was who knew what went and the most. famous quote is from Senator Howard. Baker of the Irvin committee what did. the president know and when did he know. it and find that echoing in every.

Scandal since uh uh and popularly. so uh uh the as the as the investigation. progressed more and more people got. caught up in the wrongdoing and. ultimately there was a tape that came. out uh after the recommendations for. impeachment after the Supreme Court. ruled the tapes had to be turned over to. the. prosecutors this tape came out that. recorded the president agreen with his.

chief of staff to get the CIA to tell. the FBI that two people they wanted to. interview were off limits because they. were CIA Personnel now I'm somewhat. familiar with the Smoking Gun tape. because I was the third person to hear. it after the Supreme Court's decision I. was the one who prepared the official. transcript of it first transcript and. I'm the one that nicknamed it The. Smoking Gun and the reason I did that.

was because the President's chief lawyer. when he heard it he was the second. person after President Nixon to hear. that tape the tape of June 23d 1972 6. days after the Breakin arrests he. concluded turns out wrongly that the. president had been involved in the. coverup from the beginning because he. agreed to this idea to get the CIA to. tell the FBI not to interview the people.

now let's go back and start with what I. think happened wait may I just just for. people who aren't um you know as. familiar with the the details in the. overview so so the break-in happens in. 1972 during the campaign absolutely. Nixon wins an overwhelming Landslide by. some measures the biggest landslide in. American electoral history yes um and so. he's the most popular president and then. the Washington Post Bob Woodward and. Carl Bernstein being the reporters on.

the story start to break a series of. stories about the Breakin then the cover. up etc etc. and what happens then how is Nixon. booted from office and well those. stories were breaking before he was. reelected yes so it is fair to say the. public was informed about this minor. Scandal interesting uh but they still. voted overwhelmingly for the president. he is running against George McGovern. yes and acknowledg Progressive uh his we. we characterized his campaign has been.

in favor of acid amnesty and abortion. yes uh he promised to raise taxes it was. a Wipeout uh but then facts started to. come out that were. embarrassing as the coverup started to. come apart the actual trial of the. Watergate burglars occurred after the. president had been reelected so he wins. a landslide in November but the trial. starts in January and when those seven. were all convicted and facing tens of.

years of imprisonment it broke the cover. up they didn't hold anymore and as that. broke uh it was like a a a flood coming. Downstream swallowing damn after damn uh. more and more things came out that were. adverse the uh Senate set up an. investigative committee the Senate Irvin. committee they were public hearings they. were dragging people up there there uh.

and the people didn't look good you know. it look bad. stories uh and then it turned out there. was a taping system and everybody. thought wow now we can learn the truth. and there was a year-long battle over. who got the tapes and and the famous. case is USV Nixon handed down in July of. uh. 1974 now it was the prosecutor who. subpoenaed the tapes America.

don't understand it had nothing to do. with the Congress Congress never won a. battle saying they could have the tapes. because of separation of powers the. president could protect his own. conversations but not from possible. criminal involvement and that was the. holding of the Supreme Court so you end. up with three things for certain there. really was a Breakin they were caught. red-handed there really was a cover up. there just no question question about.

that who was involved is the real. question and Nixon really did resign. he's the only president at least to date. who's ever resigned from office so let's. start at with the crime the break-in. yeah you said um there was one the the. man in charge was a CI officer McCord no. well yes he was the senior guy of the. break-in team but it would be unfair to. say he was in charge I I mean at on the. scene on the scene there were two goals.

as I understand it I have no personal. knowledge two goals of the break-in one. was to fix a uh a listening device a bug. in the Chairman's phone Larry O'Brien's. phone that wasn't transmitting correctly. and the other was to photocopy every. document they could find and the Cubans. were supposed to do that and mcord was. supposed to fix the bug some people. think there's all kinds of conspiracy y.

theories about that Breakin because. we've never ascertained why the lead. prosecutor the career why what why did. they go in why did they go in who. thought that was a bright idea you get. down to it and they're all kinds of. stories Tucker and I can't vouch for the. stories but supposedly Howard hunt who's. a separate career CIA agent he said this. is nuts Larry O'Brien has already left.

for their convention down in Miami this. is high-risk low reward I don't want to. go back in but Gordon litty who. developed the campaign intelligence plan. was eager to show off kind of a macho. man no by Jo if that stuff isn't working. I'm going to send my team back in to fix. it and then to fix it he recruits the. head of security for for the reelection.

committee who's James McCord so you're. right McCord is is the senior guy on. site but ly's pulling the strings how. many of the burglar had some connection. to the CIA. all the CIA as did as did Howard hunt. the only guy who doesn't is Gordon lyy. who is an FBI agent for well he had been. an FBI agent and an assistant uh. district. attorney um I had the pleasure of. knowing Gordon when I was a White House.

fellow at Treasury and he was fired from. the Department of Treasury because he. wouldn't follow Direction and I have The. Misfortune of having fought to keep him. off the White House staff I maintained. he was a loose cannon he wouldn't follow. Direction and we would Ru the day if we. hired him but I lost I I knew him well. and I can I can verify I I thought he. was great but he was definitely a loose. cannon I would say I remember walking.

down the hallway of the old EOB the. gorgeous uh uh marble uh uh squares. black and white saying to myself the day. Gordon left good Heavens he's been here. and he's left and nothing's gone wrong. and I I I pitched a hisy fit they must. think I'm a fool and then later it. turned out that Gordon had run this. whole thing but can I ask so the CIA is. an intelligence gathering agency whose.

main purpose is to collect information. from around the world and give it to the. president so he can make better informed. foreign policy decisions yes they have. no right to operate in the United States. open and shut no no no operation. whatsoever and I mean from from its. Inception um that has been the rule it. seems very strange that every burglar. has some connection to the CIA has. worked for the CIA like what is that. everyone but.

Gordon and Gordon is the moving Force so. I tell you right off the top the CIA. knew all about the burglary in advance. everything President Nixon knew nothing. when Gordon goes over to the reelection. committee he's recruited by John Dean. the president's lawyer he shows up at. creep and he says I've been promised a. million dollars to do a campaign. intelligence plan. now those words are pretty.

Innocent but that the operation Is Not. Innocent at all it's opposition research. every campaign wants to know everything. they can find out adverse about their. opponent of course and and when today. when uh uh they were looking for who was. going to be Trump's Vice Presidential. nominee the other side was doing. research on all the possibilities of. course so they were ready to jump okay. Gordon is asked to prepare he's.

recruited by John Dean the president's. lawyer to develop a campaign. intelligence plan and he gets carried. away he says wow I can really impress. these people I will put together a plan. that they will just blow them out of the. water and he has specific proposals for. mugging bugging kidnapping and. prostitution and I'm not making this. stuff up Gordon is so thrilled with his. plan he describes it in his.

autobiography so you can go to see his. book and read in great detail he shows. up over over at reelection says I've. been promised a million dollars the. acting head says well nobody here has. authority to decide a budget item that's. that big the only guy that can make that. decision is John Mitchell and he hasn't. arrived yet he's still attorney general. we'll have to go over over to his office.

and explain the plan so they go over on. January 27th. 1972 and Gordon puts up his plan on uh. uh uh. whiteboards prepared by the. CIA and explains this plan this crazy. plan now can I I just want to get back. to the the same question which is why. would the. CIA be involved in anything like this. well we've agreed they cannot do. anything domestic well this is illegal.

we know that they can't do this but they. are they why they do well Howard hunt. was a career officer with the. CIA uh we got John Erman the head of. domestic affairs to call Richard Helms. or Vern Walters one or the other the. head or deputy and say at CIA at CIA you. need to help these people you need to. help these people so they gave how hunt. their former employee a wig a voice.

altering device something to put in his. shoe to make him look like he had a limp. so he he wouldn't be recognizable if he. was seen they give them a camera a CIA. produced camera that only the CIA can. open and develop and they use it to take. pictures of a Breakin they're planning. out in Los. Angeles and and then they come back and. say well we're going to show this plan.

and Gordon talks them in I'm sorry to. ask you P what what Breakin were they. planning in Los Angels the CIA well this. is why Watergate gets to be so much fun. there was this this four volume study of. the Vietnam War called The Pentagon. Papers yes and it went up through Lynden. Johnson and it leaked and it was. considered to be the biggest National. Security league in the Cold. War and and the uh it was an internal.

assessment of how the Vietnam War was. going well how it started from day one. all the way back to World War I and it. was put together. secretly un peer reviewed by the three. most senior Doves on the war Paul warkey. who was Council to the Department of. Defense Morton halan uh who was a. national security officer and a third. guy Les Gelb uh who did most of the in. and it went on for a couple years nobody.

else knew it was. underway it wasn't even completed when. Nixon was when Nixon took office so they. took their study to Brookings and. completed it in the next six months. nobody on the National Security Council. knew nobody on the uh State Department. or the N or or anybody else just an. internal study by the Pentagon but one. of the people who participated in the. study Daniel Ellsberg originally a.

former Marine originally strongly in. favor of the war had switched and was. opposed to the war and felt this thing. should be leaked and he worked very hard. to get it leaked he offered it to. William Fulbright the chairman of Senate. Foreign Relations and Fulbright wouldn't. touch it he he said this is top secret. you get it sent to me officially and. I'll deal with it but I'm not going to. touch it until it's official I don't. want any part of that so ultimately the.

New York Times decided they'd Go With It. And in June of. 1971 they started producing. excerpts and Henry Kissinger went crazy. he it didn't didn't concern Nixon Nixon. wasn't a part of the study but it it. suggested the war was illegitimate from. day one that was the purpose of the. study and Kissinger said look I'm. negotiating with three totalitarian.

regimes North Vietnam China and Russia. if they think we can't keep secrets they. won't talk so you must do something so. there was an allout allout press to stop. publication of the Pentagon papers and. and we lost but on the way to the. Supreme Court there were 29. injunctions stopping new newspapers from. publishing excerpts and then the Court.

held no no prior publication you can't. stop it until you can sue after they. publish but you can't stop something. before it's published that's freedom of. the. press it turned out ellsburg had had uh. strong connections worked for the Rand. Corporation out west in Santa Monica and. he had access because Rand had access to. 54,000 other classified documents and so.

this unit set up in the White House to. try to stop the damage from the Pentagon. papers and stop ellsburg from leaking. anything. further decided what they ought to do to. possibly learn his plans was to break. into his psychiatrists office in Beverly. Hills Dr Lewis. fielding and they tried to get Hoover to.

do it but Hoover wouldn't do it because. ellsberg's father-in-law was a guy named. Leonard Marx he ran a big toy company. and he gave toys to Hoover at Christmas. to give to underprivileged kids you know. you sit there and say what goes wrong. with our government well what goes wrong. is we deal with human beings you know so. they got the bright idea to break into. El fieldings office to search his files.

and see if by some chance Daniel. ellsburg had told Dr Fielding what his. plans. were and they didn't use the FBI of. course they couldn't use the CIA it. could staff them but couldn't take. operations so they used Gordon lyy and. Howard hunt and and they said we know. who can actually do the deed with we. know these Cubans down in Miami because.

when we were going to invade Cuba I was. their CIA contact I was the mysterious. this is Howard hunt I was the mysterious. Eduardo and they respect me so if I tell. them this break in is necessary because. it has something to do with Castro. they'll do it so they go out and they. break in and they can't pick the lock so. much poison now in our Public Square and. if you take almost all of it and trace. it to its roots you'll arrive at the.

same place the higher education system. in the United States this is coming out. of our colleges and universities and. it's not an accident radical professors. and administrators have transformed. higher education into this country into. an indoctrination factories specializing. in teaching anti-American antihuman. ideologies that's not an overstatement. American universities once the Envy of. the world had become hostile mediocre. places but there's at least one college. that stands apart and has for 180 years.

Hillsdale College has stayed true to its. original Mission even the midst of all. this chaos Hillsdale is committed. completely to sharing the best things. from its classrooms to every person in. the United States every American who. wants to learn for free and as part of. that commitment Hillsdale offers free. online courses based on its Core. Curriculum that every student there. takes on campus that would include. American history Politics the Bible. classic literature Western philosophy.

music foreign policy it keeps going and. they're great more than 4 million people. have taken free online courses with. Hillsdale no charge whatsoever check it. out go to Tucker for hillsdale.com to. start learning about everything in. Hillsdale offers again even if you're. opposed to college even if you're one of. the many Americans like me who thinks if. I had to do it again I would never send. kids to college Hillsdale is different. check them out who's paying for this. who's organizing Who is the. Authority telling these guys to go break.

into Gordon Ley is the chief operational. officer for the Plumbers yes he wasn't. hired to be the plumber he was already. on the staff remember I tried to keep it. right I failed so when this thing all. developed my immediate supervisor Bud. krog who was put in charge of the. special unit that became nicknamed the. plumbers cuz they stopped. leaks he assigned. litty and this other gentleman who is a.

retired CIA officer Howard hunt joined. the team as a consultant so they were. the two people who were planning. it uh Gordon was on the staff he was. paid as a staff member and Hunt was paid. from a a a fund that domestic Council. had to fund operations it was government. money so they do the breaking I don't. know who paid the Cubans I'm unable to.

say that I doubt the CIA paid them it it. could have been private money raised off. budget but I just don't know the Breakin. was not successful they did not find the. file but since they couldn't pick the. lock Gordon ordered them to break in and. make it look like a drug bus like some. druggy went into the shrink's office. looking for. pills they didn't get caught.

uh Fielding reports it to the police so. there's a police record so when this all. starts to come out later they know. exactly when the break-in occurred now. assume for a moment whether you agree or. not agree that the FBI conducted the. operation it would have been successful. no fingerprints no Trace left behind so. there could have been oh I think it was. broken into but no proof but because it. was watched there was proof they got.

back to the White House they told John. Erman who had approved a uh uh a secret. operation covert not necessarily illegal. and they told him they'd broken in they. hadn't been successful so they wanted to. go break into fielding's house to see if. the file was there and Erman said no no. no we aren't going to do this anymore. get litty off my staff. then comes John Dean assigned to do a.

campaign intelligence plan looking for. somebody to recruit talks to Bud krog. Bud says have I got a deal for you. here's Gordon litty Gordon has handled. sensitive items for us in the past so. Dean goes for it and he hires he. recruits Gordon litty and Promises him. all this money I think the actual. promise was a half million possibly a. million. so Gordon shows up at the re-election.

committee uh I'm supposed to do this. plan and mcder the acting Chief says. nobody with authority to do this to. approve the expenditure so they go over. to John Mitchell's office twice to. present the plan it's not approved at. either meeting but later when these guys. are arrested and caught in the act. people who were at that meeting are at. risk of. prosecution and that's when John Dean.

who was at the meeting who had recruited. Gordon lyy he starts running the cover. up nobody on the White House staff not. halman or Erman or Nixon do anything. about the Breakin but in John is that. confirmed oh absolutely without question. absolutely without question Gordon ly. had never met any of them there's. nothing in writing there there was a. Tickler file we with with Bob halderman.

the way he ran the White House if there. was a five projects we want a. Presidential Library started we want uh. to know what we're going to do about uh. the environment we want to know. something else and they'd be after you. until you said yes that's underway it. wasn't substantive it was just this item. has been addressed right so that they. can show they can they can show that. they were told they had made. arrangements for a campaign intelligence.

plan but no details when do you think. Nixon learned about the Watergate. Breakin uh he was down in kisc he came. back on Monday he read about it in the. uh Sunday paper the Miami Herald oh. really yeah and he says what a dumb. thing to do who would be so stupid to. break into the headquarters of the DNC. especially because they didn't need to. they didn't need to and they weren't. running it that the uh the candidates.

were running it you if you were into. this if you were into spine you'd break. into McGovern's headquarters of course. that's such a smart point so they they. come back and and and as it comes apart. wait so that I'm going to ask you to. pause again just because I I don't want. to lose this thread so you just made a I. think an airtight case that there was no. reason to do this Nixon was winning. absolutely the DNC wasn't running the. campaign anyway the whole thing was. sloppy and stupid but we know that the. CIA had knowledge of it cuz everyone.

there was a former CIA and they did the. charts that's hugely important did the. charts did the charts Gordon lady used. to explain the plan John Mitchell so we. know that the CIA had a hand an. orchestrating this Breakin which was. unnecessary absolutely um so what the. hell why you you come back to why the. Breakin yeah it's Gordon ly showing off. he's a Madman but why would the CIA go. along with it. I I I I can't respond to that.

part uh uh put it in put flip the coin. okay the the the wrongdoing the alleged. wrongdoing is the CIA didn't they knew. and they didn't tell anybody they knew. okay you could make that case that that. they they watched it burn down then you. ask yourself who were they supposed to. tell who were they supposed to tell they. work for the president of the United. States and John Mitchell is alleged to. have approved the plan John Mitchell the.

president's best friend who do you tell. we think you're making a. mistake well you you dispatched the. director Richard Helms over maybe you. send Bob Woodward over to brief the. former Navy uh Intel officer um right so. it's it's all very strange so you but. you're um you believe that it it was all. because uh Gordon lady was greedy and. Reckless and without question in my mind. I'm based on knowing Gordon litty but.

not knowing anything about the break-in. me I have no personal knowledge but you. I mean you worked there at the time you. had no idea I knew everybody in well I. didn't know the Cubans I I I knew. everybody from the White House that. ended up being involved I never set foot. in the campaign. headquarters terribly helpful how did. you survive Jeff well one I never worked. on any campaign I worked on the. governance side not the campaign ster I.

get it but when so when did you learn of. the break-in in the paper yeah in the. paper so my secretary had a roommate. that was the secretary to the plumbers. okay. um I can't come up with her name but she. sent me an email very just just very. recently uh and she would tell my my. secretary that that there were people. that were under investigation they. hadn't yet indicted hadn't yet caught.

cuz there five people caught red-handed. and there were two others and there was. speculation in the Press about who those. two others might be so Joanne Lam mer my. secretary says well you know who they're. talking about and I said well no no I. have no idea she said well let me give. you his initials it's ggl I said I means. nothing to me and she says it's G Gordon.

Jeff and there's this shocked pause when. I remember my fight to keep him off the. staff and my telling myself that he's. come he's gone and nothing's gone wrong. it turns out there's a whole lot that's. gone wrong so can I ask I've already. said that I knew Gordon ly pretty well. and and really liked him I found him. enormously entertaining and and smart. and interesting however and he's gone. now so he can't right defend himself but. that's so crazy to do something like.

that to break into the DNC for no real. reason in the middle of a presidential. campaign you're winning anyway if he. drove that and you're saying that he did. is it. possible that he was working against. Nixon no no he expected to get based on. his spectacular work on this campaign. intel plan that he would get a very high. position in the second term that's what. was driving him he has conversations. with Howard hunt and says to hunt you.

you've played your your hand you know. You' you've retired you're older I'm. looking to impress these people so I get. a more senior position and he had dreams. of of. grandure now uh uh the other issue and. it's in Len colne's book uh silent coup. he says there was a totally separate. reason and the reason had to do with. John Dean's girlfriend. his.

fiance I know nothing about this story. except to reproduce Lyn's work he says. the CIA was running a Honey Trap in the. apartment building next door Columbia. Plaza Apartments and they were catching. foreign diplomats in compromising. positions with goodling. women and John Dean was dating the. roommate of the Madame Heidi reiken that. was running the Honey.

Trap and she was Best Made of Honor at. John Dean's marriage to Mo biner Dean. but when they were dating Dean's nick uh. Mo's nickname was clout because she was. dating the council to the president so. she had clout and according to LY this. is not me this is Len Len cadney John. Dean became. worried that Marine Dean's picture was.

in the desk drawer where the Diplomat. not the foreign diplomats but the DNC. field officers would come in right to. The Campaign Headquarters and they were. looking for a good time and the DNC was. availing itself of the Honey Trap next. door the prostitutes the prostitutes and. what you would do this is the allegation. what you would do is you you sit at the.

desk pull open the drawer there's a. picture book you pick out somebody you. like you call the number and say I like. 15 and a few minutes later 15 calls you. back and arranges a date pretty good. unless John Dean's girlfriend's picture. was part of that portfolio so according. to LY the reason for the Breakin was to. go back in and if her picture was there. take it out now one of the Cubans has a.

key and the key is taped to his notebook. and when they are arrested during the. course of his arrest he tries to swallow. the key okay he's damn lucky he didn't. get. shot he's not successful they wrestle. him down they get the key and then they. try to figure out where it goes and I'll. be a son of a gun it goes to Maxi Well's. desk which is alleged to have the.

photographs now they didn't find that. out they didn't know what it opened for. a long time so the photographs are gone. but the story lingers where was Maxi. wells's desk she was the um um secretary. to guy named Stewart I'm I'm blocking on. the name and he it was the only. phone uh uh uh cuz he was running field. operations that was a part from the DNC.

so it was the only telephone that didn't. go through the DNC. switchboard uh and she was his. secretary uh for the uh uh for the. conspirators Among Us his dad worked for. Mullen and Company which was a CIA front. operation in Washington uh so there's. again there's a remote CIA connection. now let me finish on that because I I.

don't disagree with this allegation that. this Breakin is just weird as it can be. almost as weird as the Trump. assassination all these things should. never have happened but on the. Breakin uh uh uh the the issue that is. that that is is so. strange it it it has to do with his uh. John Dean's girlfriend and and and the. the stories that are told about it and.

that's why John Dean runs the cover up. because he's trying to protect his. involvement both in the meetings with. John Mitchell and in in this involvement. with his fiance so it just gets weirder. and weirder Mullen and Company again the. CIA front uh they hire the first lawyer. to come down to try to bail the five. who've been arrested. out of jail his name is Douglas caddy.

and he shows up they don't know he's. that they don't think they they've never. retained him he just shows up at the. police station and says I represent. those five guys we want to get him out. of here and the Cubans are saying to the. police you know we're on the same side. you know there's going to be a phone. call and we're going to be out of here. within the next half hour now he doesn't. say it but you know we're working for. the president of the United States but. the CIA jumps in to save the burlar the.

Mullen and& company lawyer comes they. they send the lawyer over I think what. happens again this is all speculation is. Howard hunt who's not caught goes back. to the hotel room where the listening. device is across the street it's in the. Howard Johnson's hotel across the street. and tells the guy who was supposed to be. listening to to the wir. Taps get your stuff and get out get lost.

and then Howard hunt drives around. Washington for a couple of hours he's. not. caught and decides the safest place to. put his stuff is his office in the old. executive office building because he's a. consultant to the plumbers so he goes in. 2 a.m. 3:00 a.m. leaves all his stuff in. his safe he's got too much stuff so it's. on the de des and in is. safe and then you you switch and we we.

didn't put this in our documentary we're. all all of this the part I have to play. is in a. documentary uh uh the FBI agent who is. assigned Angela Lano who's assigned to. the case from day one he says you. know the burglars had two Hotel keys at. the Watergate hotel where they were. staying so we went to their room rooms I. went to one of the rooms and all the.

evidence we could ever have needed is. laid out on the bed here's their ID. here's their wallets here's the. sequential $100 bills here's an envelope. uh from Howard. hunt nominally from Miami to pay his. dues to a country club so it looks like. he's a non-resident member I mean. Howard's cheating on his dues so they go. over and interview Howard hunt that very.

day now hunt doesn't talk to him hunt. bolts for the west coast and hides out. with a attorney friend waiting for word. from Gordon on what on Earth to do you. know they've been caught Gordon is over. at the re-election committee shredding. documents like there's no tomorrow he. actually had stationary printed up with. the name gemst Stone cuz that was the. overall code name of his campaign.

intelligence plan and he's shredding. document incriminating documents like. mad and he's not. really he's fired from the FBI from the. reelection committee about five days. later because he won't cooperate with. the FBI and then he's. indicted on September 15th breaking is. June that caught. red-handed uh the prose UT launch a huge. investigation John Dean does everything.

in his power to thwart it to coordinate. the testimony he he he does incredible. things in his cover up he rehearses some. of the people on what they're to testify. to when they appear in front of the. grand. jury he destroys evidence some stuff. taken from Howard Hunt's safe he found. dangerous so he peels it off puts it in.

his file cabinet and later admits he's. destroyed. it he he talks the head of the FBI Pat. gray into sharing intelligence reports. prosecutive reports with him so he can. share them with defense counil so they. know where the investigation is going. and Pat gray testifies under oath he's. put up to be head of the FBI permanently.

and he says yes I gave John Dean 81. investigative reports over time he told. me he was doing this investigation on. behalf of the president and I believed. him why wouldn't I give him the. investigative reports but John Dean was. giving them to defense councel and John. Dean is the only person in Watergate who. took money he embezzled. $4,000 of campaign funds to pay for his.

honeymoon it's all admitted it's all on. record he's. disbarred by the Commonwealth of. Virginia February 6th uh. 1974 and the the court hearing the the. New York Times article says he was. accused of suborning perjury all these. all these criminal acts and he's. disbarred he's been disbarred through. today. cannot represent anybody in court give.

legal advice he never goes to prison. never spent a day he winds up on MSNBC. as a political analyst yes huh you know. there's there's certain unfairness in. life well how did he earn that he. flipped on his colleagues most of us. well actually all of us go through our. daily lives using all sorts of quote. free. technology without paying attention to. why it's quote free who's paying for. this and how now think about it for a. minute think about your free email.

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reveal the cover up and he said I can I. can give you John Mitchell I can give. you Jeb McGruder and they said that's. not good enough so he said well shoot. the there was a cover up I was running. it I can give you White House people and. they said not good enough you go before. the grand jury you want the truth to. come out go before the grand jury. without immunity but his lawyer is a. very very well-placed Democrat he goes. up to Capitol Hill to the irin committee.

works out a deal he'll be their. principal witness against his former. colleagues if they will give him. immunity and they do and then it turns. out he's going to be the lead witness in. the coverup trial and they're worried. about his. credibility so they hurry up and. sentence him to 1 to four years in. prison the harshest sentence passed down. to non burglar. at that time before he testifies with.

his incarceration to begin on the first. day of the trial except he doesn't go to. prison he's held in a witness holding. facility at Fort hird Maryland a. military base and he comes and he. testifies I I've been punished I'm. guilty there was a cover up I know I was. running it these other people here they. were part of it I swear you they were. part of it you should convict them too.

and then 7 days after they're convicted. and all counts John Dean's sentence is. reduced to time served he never spent a. single night in jail so there's only two. real criminals in Watergate there's. people on the periphery but the core. criminals are Gordon litty his plan his. genius his involvement he got five years. he sentenced to 35 5 years in jail John.

Dean ran the cover up I mean we we have. in the documentary that we've prepared. that's being. released uh we have Angelo Lano the lead. FBI agent he's asked what what about the. involvement in the coverup what about. John Dean and he says I credit him with. 95% of the coverup activities this is. the head FBI agent but he be comes in. later life I mean I've watched it over.

decades he becomes a obedient apologist. for the people in. charge he he's he's counted upon to come. out no matter what the what the case is. and announce it's worse than Water Gate. I mean he testifies against Republicans. every time he doesn't testify on behalf. of Republicans that's kind of the point. he's he's. become probably for the last 50 years he. in exchange for not being punished. did he has become a servant of the.

people who took Nixon out that's the way. it looks to me and then out of is that. fair do you think oh completely out of. nowhere in. 2014 he publishes lots of books all on. Watergate his wife publishes a book on. waterg he publishes one in. 2014 called the Nixon. defense and at page 54 in his book. there's a footnote and the footnote says. you know funny thing The Smoking Gun. tape that drove Nixon out of office it's.

released on August 5th he resigns on. August 8th that's what knocked Nixon off. that's been misunderstood from the. beginning it was really an effort to not. have the FBI interview two people who. might reveal the donation of. significant contributions to Creep by. democrats by very prominent. Democrats so what appears to be Nixon AG.

green to using the CIA to cover up the. Breakin is nothing of the sort Nixon. agreed to use the CIA to protect the. testimony against two prominent. Democrats if Nixon had known this when. this tape came out when the tape was. first. heard he might have lived to fight. another day th those are quotes at the. bottom of the page he might have lived.

to fight another day in short The. Smoking Gun was shooting blanks okay. here's the guy who's at the absolute. center of the alleged wrong doing saying. it's all been a mistake now he testified. at the trial and when you swear in as a. witness youd swear to tell the truth the. whole truth and nothing but the truth. John Dean knew from the date that tape.

was released that it was. misinterpreted but he didn't say so at. the trial when they were pushing on him. I mean Bob halman his life is hanging by. a balance and he says that was the. political decision and John Dean says. well they were worried about Gordon ly's. involvement which is true but a lie it's. just interesting that Nixon was forced. from office on the allegation that he. was. using the CIA to cover it up when in.

fact the CIA had been involved in it. long before Nixon even. knew when we released The Smoking Gun. tape on August. 5th we knew that would be the nail in. the coffin that his can you describ. since you transcribed it yourself what. did it say for those who can't. remember what was the substance of. it I did transcribe it I don't have the. transcript would just if you just. characterize it Bob halderman comes in.

and he says the investigation is going. in a direction we don't want it to go. and Nixon says what what are you talking. about he says well they're tracing the. money and what he means is they're not. tracing how the money got to the. burglars because it's clear that came. from creep it's how the money got to. creep in the first place and that will. reveal these two guys so Nixon says was. it is is it STS does this have to do. with Morris STS who's Finance.

chairman and and Holman says no it's. somebody who works for STS it's Ken. dolberg and then one of the most famous. lines in our history Nixon says who the. hell is Ken. dolberg and hman says he's a middleman. and there's another guy a Mexican. attorney I'll have the name for you. tomorrow but. John they're going to reveal the. identity. of these. donors and John's thought about it and.

come up with an answer and he says why. don't we he's just been over to C Pat. gry at the FBI and Pat gray says they. think it's a CIA operation because. there's all these foreigners and all. this foreign money and these Cubans so. we just get the CIA to tell the FBI lay. off these two. guys okay totally misunderstood by. Nixon's. lawyers they they they read it as no no. know that the effort was to shut down. the.

investigation but John Dean who was. there John Dean is the one who came up. with the idea he gets in 2014 around to. saying not. so and even though he said that in his. book he'll sit there in meetings he'll. sit there in TV shows where people say. and and Nixon tried to stop the. investigation he won't say a word see. John's caught in a trap his interactions. with Nixon personal interaction with. Nixon they're on tape so he can't fudge.

much there's a memo and I've produced. the memo uh written by one of the. special prosecutors on February. 674 and it lists the the uh material. discrepancies between John Dean's. testimony before the Senate and what's. on the tapes and there's 19 material. discrepancies but the press doesn't care. the Press has got a narrative and the.

narrative is Nixon and his people are. all Crooks we don't have to look any. further we don't have to read the. transcripts we know what they say but. they don't say it that's what my work. keys off of and that's what we've. reduced to in this documentary so this. might be a good transition to the. question of the press's role in this now. from my perspective. the Press drove it I I don't know if. that's correct or not but from the.

Vantage to 50 years it looks like the. Washington Post in particular Ben. Bradley the editor and the the two. reporters Woodward and Bernstein drove. the coverage with the New York Times and. time and Newsweek and uh and the. networks at the time there were three. networks n NDC ABC CBS yes there were. two very powerful news Weekly News. magazines time in Newsweek both gone and. there was one nationally prominent. dominant newspaper the New York Times.

yes and there was the Washington Post. but the other five were all the other. six were all headquartered within six. blocks of each other in Midtown. Manhattan and there was a single. narrative Nixon crook people guilty and. nothing to the contrary ever made it. into print so it's no wonder American. citizens think Nixon was guilty as hell. was properly caught and his people were. properly punished and so just for people. who weren't around 50 years ago and.

weren't working in government then um. you're saying that those six news. outlets all headquartered in Midtown. Manhattan were basically the sum total. of the narrative machine in the United. States there was nothing else there. there was no other point of view there. was no talk radio there were no podcast. there was no alternate news networks. there was no Tucker Carlson and now look. what's happened look what's happened to. today you 50 years we have four terms.

that are newly appreciated deep state. fake news false narrative and most of. all. lawfare the use of the law the criminal. provisions of the law to ruin your. political. opponent the word lawfare is very. recent but the Big Bang the creation of. lawfare that was.

Watergate you have the special. prosecution force a 100 people that's. the original table of organization and. employment 60 of whom are lawyers. specially. recruited to get Nixon the top 17. burglary well over possibly knowing. about a burglary you could the burglar. should have been. punished the issue is who else could we.

get how could we expand a third rate. burglary that's what it was called in. the beginning. dismissed how could we expand that to. void the most popular president that. we've ever seen in in an election so I. want to I want to get to that you I mean. you actually participated in that whole. process personally as an attorney well. not getting Nixon but defending. I'm aware defending um but you had a. front row seat to all of that but I just.

want to linger for one moment on the. question of the press so I'm I don't. know what Bob Woodward is doing this. week but I'm sure he's participating in. some sort of commemoration of his heroic. role I'm sure is I'm sure is they're. celebrating the strong power of the. press and Carl Bernstein who is like an. idiot um I know him well I know them. both but Bernstein like I don't even. know how I mean that's all he's ever. done with his life is Watergate yes. um I still don't understand the one.

thing I can assess having worked in. journalism for over 30 years is I it's. incredibly weird that they got the story. it just doesn't make any sense to me. from my knowledge of how news. organizations work so Woodward and. Bernstein were really young um Bernstein. had been a reporter for a number of. years few years Woodward had not been he. was a naval Intel officer working at the. Pentagon sent on a couple of occasions. at least over to the Nixon White House. to deliver things to you Bri. yes um and then within like months winds.

up at the Washington Post yes with no. journalism experience at all and then. winds up with the biggest story in the. modern history of Journalism well if you. like what is that that's just not that's. that's not plausible if you. want to go back and and really look at. it Bob Woodward he starts out as number. two Bernstein is the lead name Bernstein. is the more experienced guy yes definely. and Woodward doesn't know how to write. okay he just been a naval Intel officer. but Woodward has this connection with.

the individual who later is called deep. throat and we're told that Woodward has. a source of inside information that. fuels their stories now he and to a. lesser extent Carl are credited with. being the greatest investigative. reporters of all time yes but all they. did was leak information that the FBI. had already gathered that's not. investigative reporting we've told you. before about hallow it is a great app.

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Tucker if there is ever a time to get. spiritually in tune and ground yourself. in prayer it's now hallo will help. personally and strongly and totally. sincerely recommend it hall.com Tucker. so it's the second part of your sentence. that really gives me pauses like the FBI. is a law enforcement. agency their job is to investigate crime. and to you know help prosecutors the. guilty but that's not what they're doing. here they're acting as a.

political tool well it's h it's one guy. he's later called deepth throat but it's. Mark phelt who's a deputy director. deputy director and he thinks he should. have been named director to succeed Jay. Edgar Hoover but Nixon didn't do that he. named Pat gray former head of the Civil. Division at the Department of Justice as. acting director. so Pat gray is. a useful.

idiot uh and Mark Fel sets out to. undermine him at every turn in the road. so Pat grce is staffed by markfeld. markfeld starts leaking stuff to Bob. Woodward to undermine felt as leader of. the FBI so he can take it over so he can. take it over that's his dream that's his. purpose he says. so now. Woodward when they do the book they. don't want to admit this all came from.

the FBI well because it's so dark at. that point then it is a deep State coup. against the president yes but it also. undermines the narrative the popular. narrative that it was Nixon and Nixon's. people somebody on Nixon's White House. staff who was leaking to Woodward one of. the great disservices of all time well. because it's a completely different. story if it's someone in Nixon's. political Circle or one of his White. House staff you bet it's a man of. principle who can't abide it anymore his.

conscience won't allow him to. participate he has to tell the truth. about the crimes he's seeing if it's the. FBI doing it totally different once. again it's a coup by permanent. Washington against an elected official. it's a subversion of democracy what and. for 30 years Bob Woodward actively. supports the idea that deep throat is on. the Nixon White House that's lying. that's L it's worse than lying it's. worse than lying you can see it with. your own eyes I don't know if you've. watched the movie recently no uh All the.

President's Men but you know Robert. Redford and Dustin Hoffman Woodward and. Bernstein are on the steps of the US. capital of the library Congress they're. out of leads they don't have any place. to go and Woodward says I have a friend. at the White House and all of a sudden. they start moving again they're getting. more information they're they're back in. in control next scene or scene after. that uh uh Woodward calls deep throat at.

his office deep throat said never call. me at the office he's in a public phone. booth remember those Glass phone booths. very well in front of the old EOB right. where Blair housee is exactly and he's. looking up at the old EOB when he's. talking to and deep throat. says don't call me here but it's the. implication is there's no question where. deep throat Works he works in the old. EOB and then there's another scene where.

deep throat goes to pulls out at night. to go to a Rendevous at midnight in some. basement garage yeah parking garage yeah. and Hal Holbrook is playing deep throat. and there's this gorgeous shot from the. floorboards up and it's deep Thro in the. shadows pulling out from the Northwest. gate of the White House to go do the. meeting so there are three open and shut.

indications he's on deep throats on the. White House staff absolute fraud because. the truth would ruin the narrative well. but and and not just the narrative the. story against Nixon but it would also. raise questions about who runs the. government yes I mean the promise of our. system is that the people rule it's. their country and in order to enact. their will they elect their. representatives up to and includ cluding. the president and the real story of. Watergate tells a very different tale.

about who runs the country which is that. the people with permanent jobs. accountable to nobody unfireable have. all the power well then there's then. there's the the idea that deep throat. I'm sorry that Bob Woodward took it upon. himself to interview Grand jurs absolute. forboden be because a grand jur. complained to the prosecutor and said. we've been approached by these. reporters Woodward denies it Bernstein. denies it uh they send Edward and they.

were asked directly absolutely they send. Edward Bennett Williams to see judge Sia. the most famous Laur in Washington owner. of the Redskins uh Council to The. Washington Post and the Democratic. National Committee a very very good. lawyer okay he goes to see judge Sia his. best friend judge CA has asked Edward. Bena Williams to be godparents to ca's. daughter. CA is frequently at the owner's box for. the Redskins game I mean the the owner's.

box is 50 seats so uh uh uh Edward. Bennett Williams knows how to use power. he goes to see CA and said you know they. tried but they didn't really interview a. grand jur no harm no foul don't punish. them 2014 a guy is doing a biography on. Ben Bradley editor of the Washington. Post. gives him access to his records he finds. in Bradley's files seven page typed Memo.

by Carl Bernstein describing his. interview with the grand jur open and. shut proof not. only did they interview a grand jur but. the post management knew it you don't. know for sure if Edward Bennett Williams. knew it but Ben Bradley knew it so the. reason that you don't interview uh not. allowed to talk to Grand jurors is it. because it can influence the process yes.

of indictment so um what you have here. is the news organization The Washington. Post Ben Bradley Woodward and Bernstein. not only lying about what they did but. inserting themselves into the legal. process you bet well that's like and. when this the most immoral thing you can. imagine when this author Jeff himman uh. the book's called yours in truth. describes it chapter and verse. 2014 he approaches Woodward and says can. you explain this and Woodward says you.

print that and I will ruin you you you. do anything about that and you'll never. work in this town again threatens the. guy over the truth coming out about IM. illegally approaching a Grandeur can I. just this Ken this is a sidebar but I. it's interesting to me Woodward for the. last 50 years has remained kind of at. the very top of Journalism in Washington. the hero he is a hero truly Ian I yes.

he's a fraud he's an UT fraud and it's. proven that he's a fraud so how you know. why is every I think every president. since Nixon maybe not Jimmy Carter or. Geral for but the rest have all sort of. sat with Bob Woodward talked to Bob. Woodward their whole staffs have talked. to Bob Woodward and you know why why. because Woodward's going to do a book. okay whatever the book book on the. Supreme Court book on the CIA right and. he said in no uncertain terms if you. refuse to talk with me I will ruin you.

in the book so you got a choice fella. either you talk to me or I write about. you without presenting your side so how. is that different from what the mafia. used to. do the mafia literally killed people. yeah Woodward kills. reputations let me show you one other. thing if I could and then we we'll go. from there. um Bob Woodward secures the first. interview with the recently departed.

special prosecutor whose name is Leon. jorski he's the second special. prosecutor he didn't want to be special. prosecutor he wanted to go back home to. Texas so when the coverup trial is still. going on but the jury has been. sequestered he tenders his resignation. he saw it through uh Nixon being named a. co-conspirator Nixon resigning Nixon. being pardoned by Ford time to go home.

the first interview after he leaves is. with Bob Bob Woodward and we have Bob's. typewritten notes of that. interview and in the second sentence I. happen to have it with me right here. because I I I work off the written. record the second sentence of his notes. says quote says there were a lot of. one-on-one conversations that nobody. knows about but him and the other.

party well that's a bizarre thing for. the special prosecutor to say h how did. you succeed well there were a lot of. one-on-one conversations with somebody. that nobody knows about he was talking. about the multitude of secret meetings. he had had with judge CA we didn't know. it at the time. wait I'm sorry to ask you to pause but. since you're a Harvard Law School. graduate you'll know the answer how can.

one side in a criminal proceeding meet. secretly with the judge oh they can't. it's just it's just absolute per se. violation if you're caught if it becomes. public you met with a judge without the. other side being present you are off the. case you might be disbarred and the. judge will be prevented from hearing. that case and he may be impeached it is. a Flav so it's not it's not just a. technical violation it gets to the core. of fairness in the goes to the core of.

due process goes to the absolute core of. due process and what I've uncovered holy. smokes what I've uncovered is written. proof of at least 10 secret meetings. between prosecutors and judge CA judge. CA was a terrible judge the most. reversed in the DC circuit a petty. Tyrant who knew nothing about the law he. was not a bright man naturally Time. magazine named him man of the year.

because he was reversed most often for. violating defendants. rights and you're sitting there saying. you mean to tell me you met with the. other prosecutors the prosecutors wrote. uh descriptions of their meetings with. judge CA but wait I mean that's just. absolutely nuts and that was never. reported by anyone Oh No in fact what. happened was the three top prosecutors. left early they left before the coverup.

trial was over and they took their. records with them their sensitive files. and they didn't start to surface until. 2013 well after these guys died and they. they ended up at the National. Archives and I happen to be researching. I've spent. 27,000 hours researching ing the. Watergate prosecutions reading every. document pursuing every.

possibility and I was the first to see. what turned out to be Leon Jaworski's. confidential Watergate. files and they describe unbelievable. things they describe secret meetings. with the judge they describe political. decisions that were going to indict. Republicans on very very flimsy evidence. and not invite Democrats on super strong. evidence because if you invited. Democrats that would ruin the narrative.

I mean the big case if I could just two. two names Chuck Coulson was perhaps. Nixon's fiercest Defender but he wasn't. involved in the cover up so the. prosecutors come in for a. review and the lead trial guys who want. to indict everybody they said we want to. indict Coulson name him in the. comprehensive coverup indictment and and. the question is asked well what are the. odds of. conviction well he's not that involved.

the odds are about. 5050 and one of the other lawyers says. well you can't do that that's not the. standard for indicting somebody you. that's the standard for saying there's. probable cause but we don't we at the. Department of Justice do not let people. get indicted unless we're very confident. that a jury knowing what we know will. will convict 5050 is not good enough and. then they go on to a guy Nam but they.

indict him anyway any he went prison oh. he was convicted open and shot he plead. guilty to the plumers case so he. wouldn't get sentenced by maximum John. CA in the coverup case and after that. Sia announced no more plea deals all got. to come through me because I am the. avenging angel I will have Justice in my. court due process be damned sounds like.

sha was a democratic partisan well he. was named by Eisenhower as a republican. but he acted as a Democrat throughout. Edward Bennett Williams was his best. friend his career mentor and as I say. the councils to the. DNC to the DNC in the Washington Post. and CA was a frequent occupant at the. owners box or the Redskins games and and. Edward Bennett Williams and his wife.

were God Parents to ca's daughter it's. all so crazy oh it's not it's absolutely. not but it's so recognizable it's it. it's a city that I recognize having. spent my life there but it's all where. everyone knows everybody and everybody's. sort of intertwined in that you know. media politics government one industry. one industry in really and everyone's. kind of serving the same master and has. the same instincts of self-preservation. so these but it's crazy that the whole. country could have watched this and I. guess the news coverage didn't reflect.

any know when the irin committee gave. John Dean. immunity and he agreed to testify. against Nixon they had every reason in. the world to have John Dean portrayed as. an innocent. whistleblower and they did a very good. job at it he alone arrives to. testify and he has a 240 page statement. now normally they say thanks put that in. the record summarize it in the next.

couple of minutes we'll get to our. questions John Dean was allowed to read. his entire 240 page statement it was not. passed out in advance Republicans had no. chance to look at it in advance and he. started at 2 in the afternoon so when he. was through the committee adjourned no. cross-examination no opportunity to ask. what on Earth he was doing so Dean's. reputation is made as an innocent.

whistleblower now the irin committee. Bears striking parallels to the j6. committee of. today Democrat dominance 4. to3 no other topic to look into except. the 72 campaign not 68 not 64 not 60 oh. no we don't want to go go back that far. and Nixon had no there were three. Republicans but no Defenders on the.

committee right one of the Senators L. wer of Connecticut went on the committee. for the avowed purpose of sinking. Richard Nixon right and he later became. effectively a Democrat absolutely so. they always tell you it's the most. important election of your lifetime but. of course this one actually is that's. demonstrable and it's also because it is. so important being censored at every. level by the tech companies so we. thinking about this a couple of months. ago and we thought why not get on the. road live in front of actual people live. audiences Coast to Coast a nationwide.

tour where we can't be censored that'd. be good it would also be fun so we're. doing it we're going to be on stage with. some of our friends some of the most. fascinating people we know the most. recognizable people we know responding. to what is happening in America this. September in real time it'll be just. like the podcast but it's going to be. live so we're excited to announce our. friend Larry Elder is coming to join us. in walk Wisconsin our friend John Rich. will be there with us in Sunrise Florida. we're adding more stops you just added.

another Stadium show in Reading. Pennsylvania we'll be joined on stage by. Alex Jones they tell you what Alex Jones. is like have you seen him in person you. should make up your own mind it's going. to be fun as hell and interesting and. intense and we hope you will join us go. to tuckercarlson.com right now to get. your tickets see you there um LOL P wer. my former neighbor in Washington um and. Howard Baker where where in Washington. in B Haven actually well uh John Dean. owned a townhouse in Oldtown yeah on.

Quail Quay. street uh wer owned a townhouse two or. three doors. up he bought Dean's townhouse to get. Dean enough money to enable Dean to. relocate to Beverly Hills I have the. deed from John Dean to L wer not Beverly. Hills Alexandria Beverly Hills. California Beverly Hills California so. wer describes in his book he's he's.

walking out from a restaurant he's said. dinner with Dean and he says what else. can we do you know to ruin Nixon Dean. says his. taxes Dean had his taxes because he was. counsel to the president magically they. leak whole new investigation did Richard. Nixon pay properly pay taxes oh my God. unbelievable so it really is like having. Liz Cheney on the committee it is.

absolutely now now go back I wish I'd. understood all of this during the. January 6 well as well yeah but it it. see you you would be making points. nobody would believe I mean as we. started out this discussion the special. prosecutor the top 17 lawyers all worked. together in Robert Kennedy's Department. of Justice this was a constitutional. inversion where the people who lost. power with Nixon's election.

1968 suddenly are in charge of. investigation and prosecution they. announced at their first press. conference they will investigate every. allegation of wrongdoing about Nixon. since he took office in. 1969 so what we originally characterized. as a third rate burglary. uh uh maybe so uh suddenly had been used. as the bootstrap to launch.

investigations of every aspect of the. Nixon Administration just unbelievable. and they ruined him wait well they. certainly did um the first 17 lawers how. many lawyers were there 60 how 60. lawyers working full-time on this. specially recruited because they hated. Nixon the archal Cox is the first. special prosecutor he's a labor lawyer. from Harvard he hires as his first hire.

James vorenberg who teaches criminal law. vorenberg does two things he says I'm G. to staff this place and I'm only going. to hire people I know so we don't have. to worry about full field investigations. we got to get this thing up and running. and I'll take back now there's. background checks yeah background check. don't have time for that y. I'll take responsibility for keeping. notes of how things unfold so I can.

write the report when we're done because. they didn't know they'd win so he takes. notes at every staff meeting in by hand. he takes them back to. Harvard they didn't become available to. public researchers until 2015 how how is. that that's not har didn't make them. available I'd go up i' I'd go go there. at the Harvard uh treasure room in the. Harvard Law Library I know the director. well and I would say where are his.

papers he's dead he's died a long time. ago and I had a sentence in my second. book and I said Harvard won't won't. disclose and I called up to be sure the. footnote was still valid and they said. oh we just opened them so I went up let. me ask you again to put who makes that. decision beats the heck out of me. somebody these are all I mean these were. lawyers being paid for with tax dollars. correct oh absolutely on government time.

right well you know so why does Harvard. have a right to keep documents produced. at our expense Secret in their archive. like I don't I don't get that at all. well on the Harvard story I came down. and told the archives they got these. records and the archives is chicken to. go challenge. Harvard go demand those papers Harvard. likes the the National Archives Federal. archives Federal archives now Jaworski's. papers he he took them back to Texas you. aren't supposed to take papers Tucker.

you're absolutely right well I think. Trump got indicted for that well I think. he did but but Joe didn't see you see. how that works out Trump did but Joe. didn't that that's kind of like. Watergate yeah I say we say law fair. didn't start with Trump the origin of. lawfare was Watergate where every. decision was made against Nixon and his. people. I I told you Chuck Coulson who should. never have been indicted well Howard. Hunt's lawyer bill bitman was a very.

prominent Democrat a Democrat icon he's. guilty as hell he was running the cover. up from the lawyer point of view never. indicted and and in the notes in the. meetings where they're making those. decisions the prosecution team says he's. guilty as hell and Leon jorski who's ATT. a Lynden Johnson Protegé says no if we. indict bitman it'll ruin him you've got.

to be positive that he's guilty before. I'll sign an indictment in light of what. he's done it's in the. notes in light of what he's done for us. as Democrats I don't want him indicted. so again open and shut inwriting. documents showing political persu. on who got indicted and who doesn't so. I'm I'm just fascinating by the there. were 60 lawyers paid for by taxpayers I.

have their names in my first book so who. are some of them any of them they're not. famous none of them went on to well no. there are famous members of our class. but they weren't involved in Watergate. uh Kimba wood is a uh second Circuit. Judge Kima wood was nominated to the. Supreme Court yes no be be attorney. general I'm sorry prettiest girl you've. ever laid eyes on Bill Bill Clinton and. then Luke Kaplan Luke Kaplan is the one.

who recently decided the U uh Carol Jean. defamation case where the the assessor 8. oh he's and he was one of the 60. lawyers no he's in my Harvard Law School. oh I'm sorry no no no I'm we're trying. to get famous. lawyers I mean Bill Bill will now this. is a perfect example of what happened to. me Bill welds in my class or within a. year or two when I would go out and crew. you know Row for relaxation on the.

Charles River I check the shell out of. the weld boat house oh yeah there are. three buildings on the Harvard campus. named after weld he is the 18th weld to. attend Harvard and here comes Jeff Jeff. from nowhere out of Whittier College and. Irvine Ranch I mean just. uh uh thrown in the Lion's Den with the. preppies and the guys who went to the. white shoe schools oh not the preppies.

not like you so can I but I just. ask Bill weld is a buffoon. unfortunately um sad buffoon but to the. to the 60 I just can't believe there. were 60. lawyers on this case against Nixon that. just seems like an extraordinary large. number of lawyers well they stop. denouncing them uh the reason I was able. to piece it together is they show in. their report the names of the staff but.

they don't include whether they were a. lawyer or not so you've got to Google. each and every name and see if you can. come up with uh uh somebody from Harvard. or Yale and who were were they all would. you say Democratic partisans well they. had to be to get. hired there's one guy who's nominally a. republican Phil loav. uh uh but he's never been in a. republican.

Administration it's very strange how. could you say yes I'm a I'm a DieHard. Republican but you've never served well. you bring that guy in for the same. reason you bring L Cheney in to say this. is well except except Phil lovara was. number one in his class at Colombia and. is coming from the solicitor General's. office and is ranking number two and a. half in the special prosecutors office. he takes his files with him when he. leaves now he's still alive he quits.

flamboyantly over the Nick over the Ford. pardon and he says I will not be a party. to Prosecuting Nixon's staff when Nixon. got off scott free now that's a man of. principle but he's the one that wrote. the memo that said you can't indict. Chuck Coulson on a 5050 Assumption of. conviction he's the one that writes a. memo I have all these. because he gave them back in. 2020 gave them all the files he'd taken.

with him back to. archives and I happen to be having lunch. with the archist most responsible for. the prosecutor's documents and he said. oh we got Phil lock ofar papers and I. said do you need a foyer request I'd. love to look through them he said you. don't have to he just gave them to us. we've got them now when you look at them. and you get to look at the original you. know I'm not going to destroy anything. it's obvious they've been stored in the. basement somewhere cuz the Staples have.

rusted a little bit and stained the. paper so they've gone through it and. they've they've made photocopies so. you're not looking at the actual. originals but he has one memo in there. saying we just got The. Descent on the effort to get Sia thrown. off the. case and it's a good descent and I'm. really worried about that issue the. issue of Rec. recusal we should never have let CA name.

himself to preside over the second trial. but since we've crossed that bridge. there's no no turning back now so you. can say in writing even the top. prosecutors knew Sira should not have. been allowed to appoint himself to. preside over the trial when he did we. objected we took it up on appeal he's. too tainted you can't use him and the.

acou submitted an amikas brief the. American civil liberties Union and said. we put this brief in because the. defendants deserve an unbiased judge and. they've asked for a hearing on whether. CA has met privately with the. prosecutors now we know he'd met at. least seven times. with these prosecutors he'd met with Cox. he'd met with silbert he met with jorski.

it's absolutely crazy it's absolutely. crazy that they wrote memos about it and. we went up to the court and said we got. to have this hearing and the court rules. this is the DC. circuit without allowing the opportunity. for oral argument in a perum that's. unsigned one sentence holding motion. denied cannot have an evidentiary here. fix is in you know why the fix was in it.

just it get it gets worse and. worse Archer Bal Cox the first special. prosecutor became so worried that CA was. doing these crazy rulings on behalf of. the prosecutors that they'd win at trial. but lose on appeal he was the most. reversed judge on appeal because of his. ignorance. unacceptability of defendants rights so. Cox goes to see the chief judge of the.

DC circuit David bason and he says I. tell you what there's five liberals on. your court and there's four non-. liberals it's a ninan court the normal. appeal will be heard by three judges. that's how we do appeals you're. guaranteed an appeal but it's three. judges we could end up with two. Republicans and maybe CA would be. overturned these are crazy rulings but.

if you hold all hearings on ca's cases. in Bonk the whole nine. judges then you'll always be in control. and CA can always be upheld okay so you. can look at the 12 Criminal Appeals from. Judge. CA never before or since in any federal. court in our nation's history they're. all heard in Bonk from the very outset.

never done before so all nine judges. hear. everyone because the partisan breakdown. guarantees that cir will be upheld every. time you've got it and bason what was. his Ro was that his suggestion he's. chief judge well Cox goes to see bason. okay now what adds spice to life bason. corrupt that sounds like a corrupt. conversation it's absolutely corrupt but. what adds spice to life is the law clerk. is in the room the law clerk hears this.

conversation how to stack the deck on. appeal okay bason doesn't agree but he. follows through later when the appeals. come that law clerk told one person. nearest week and reconstruct this has. been a lot of effort one person and that. person was about to be sworn in. to the DC circuit and he said you know. there was this one time when the court.

corruption really came through that. judge told me that story and he told me. that story on June 17th 2008 in the. lobby of the Metropolitan Club my book. was coming out that day and I happened. to run into the judge good friend I'll. tell you his name in a minute good. friend and and my he was going to come. to the book launch to which was being. held at the Spy Museum I mean my first. book was going to be.

fun and he and he said you know what. happened what happened is Cox went to. see bason and told him how to stack the. deck and I said by God that's the. missing link and he said what do you. mean I said well I've got all these. crazy Decisions by CA but he was always. upheld on appeal and can't figure it out. he said well now you do but don't quote. me this is a this is a Sensi it was in.

the lobby of the metropolit club this is. a private conversation I don't want the. heat from telling you that story so in. 2008 referring back to 1973 or four four. well no 73 73 yeah um and he's still. worried about it oh very much so now the. the GU the guy is uh Carr first name. might be might be uh Robert might be Bob.

bill but his last name is car c a r r. and he was Bon's law. clerk the judge is Larry. Silberman no way oh most prominent. Republican on the DC circuit he was. Deputy attorney general during. watergate's. unfolding and Larry and I talked every. day regardless of the crisis what a nice.

man he was Oh What a wonderful person. regardless of the crisis the White House. has to talk to the Department of Justice. there's stuff that can't be put off and. Larry and I would kid each other that we. held the nation together during the. worst days toward the end of of water. game talked every. day I begged Larry to let me get. somebody else who the the law clerk. talked.

to. his law school roommate was on the DC. circuit uh Ginsburg Richard Ginsburg and. Larry said I've checked he didn't tell. Ginsburg now what about his wife his. wife was a lawyer if he told you he told. somebody else he said no didn't happen. so I interviewed the wife didn't know a. thing about it so I put it in the book. without silberman's wife no no no the. law Clerk's y Law Clerk's wife so I put.

the comment in the book without. attribution that the fix was. in years go by and my third book comes. out and I go down to see Larry he's a. good friend and I say Larry what I want. you to do is call up Merck Garland and. tell him I know what I'm talking about. that that the department of Justice. ought to look into this stuff this this. stuff I've uncovered is incredible he. says I'm not talking to him I don't like. what he's done but I'll tell you what.

I'll do what you ought to do is have the. Federalist Society put on a seminar. about this about what you've discovered. and he's on the board and I said will. you. participate and he looks off and he says. yeah I'll participate in your seminar so. we get ready and it's on film it's a. available and he says now what do you. want me to say other than the basilon.

event he's now eager to get that on the. record and we have it on film and he. describes just what I told you that the. clerk was there the setup Cox went in. the setup and then he says now I've. asked today's clerk of court for the. record you don't just move to go embun. from the begin inning without a vote of. the judges there's got to be discussion. and I asked the clerk for the record and.

he said the clerk took a long time. looking and he came back and he said. there's no record I've never seen. anything like this before in my life. bason just did it without notice to the. minority judges that is so corrupt for a. prosecutor to rig the appeals process. with a judge is just Africa I mean. that's just Next Level yes so so what. role did Hillary Clinton then Hillary. rodom play in. Watergate well there's a book the book.

is called uh uh the crime uh without. honor the crimes of Camelot and the fall. of Richard Nixon written uh in the. 1990s by the former Chief Council of the. house Judiciary Committee and he. describes terrible things about Hillary. Clinton uh and and the one that I find. the most interesting she's a very recent.

graduate of y Law School Hillary rodom. and he says the staffer running the. impeachment inquiry John door was. beholden to a professor at Yale Law. School Burke Marshall who was going to. be Ted Kennedy's attorney general if he. won okay. so Hillary RM was a recent graduate of. Yale and she was a go-between she was. carrying messages back and forth between.

these two people uh and and and she did. things that were hugely political for. example the Republican minority on the. impeachment inquiry kept demanding. comparability what about acts by other. presidents you say Nixon abused power. that he's responsible for Abus of power. what about other other presidents how. did they respond to allegations of abuse. so Hillary's assigned the project she.

goes back up to Yale and lines up the. chairman of the Yale history Department. C van Woodward and he gets four other. history professors and they work Round. the Clock to research and write up every. president from Lyndon Johnson back to. George Washington and how they. interacted with the Congress and of. course there's always tension between. the two branches allegations of abuse. Thomas Jefferson won't build the.

submarine well that's abuse we gave the. money you can't sequester uh he wants to. fire somebody well we like that bu we. don't want him to fire them so they. produce this manuscript which looks too. good for Richard Nixon it says these. tensions between the two branches have. gone on since its founding so they. suppress it they do not share it with. the Republican minority particularly a. congressman Wiggins out of California.

who is Nixon's principal defender on the. house Judiciary and and this is a. document produced with Federal money oh. absolutely without question uh uh I I. don't know that they paid them but. Hillary's trips back and all the. communications but it's part of it's. part of the the the judicial system part. of our justice system well yes but this. is this is the impeachment inquiry by. the house of course but this is not some. freelance project there oh no oh no this.

is this. is it. surely and it never comes up we decided. it wouldn't be helpful for them to see. this stuff that's what uh rodino and. Hillary. say months later the professors are. pretty damn proud about their work. product you know they did this big study. and they publish it as a book out of. nowhere I happen to have a copy of the.

book responses of the presidents to. charges of. misconduct with C van wood reading the. introduction interesting um does that. come out before Nixon's resignation oh. after after of course of course it comes. out after it would have been helpful if. it had come out before so Hillary. Clinton works for who technically she. reports to John door who is the head of.

the combined impeachment. staff uh I think there were 45 lawyers. on the combined impeachment staff I. think they were specially hired by. door. uh the the person you want to read is a. lady named ranada Adler who who was on. the STA half of the time then went to a. law school and then became a writer and. she wrote One article about the first.

year reunion of the impeachment staff. and she said you know seems to me in. retrospect it was something of a cover. up nobody told us about what came out. under the church committee the church. committee was a Watergate reform yes to. look into the abuse and misuse of the. CIA. and the FBI they they looked at. International and domestic uh and she. says the only thing I can think was we.

were part of a cover up because we. weren't told about any of that and that. would have changed everything and then. there's another article she did when she. was editor of New York Magazine and she. wrote a book about the last great Days. of the New York Magazine and she said in. the book I refuse to run a review of. John ca's book because he was so corrupt. and his son was working for news day and.

the New York Times and others responded. badly and pillared her and so she licked. her wounds and then she published an. article just dumping all over John CA. you know his parents were Bootleggers he. he uh intentionally tossed the first 13. cases he was supposed to try under the. Volstead Act uh he dropped out of law. school twice he was an organizer of. boxing matches in the district when it.

was illegal uh he's just a terrible. terrible guy so if you want to know more. sounds like a criminal well it does. sound like he did criminal activities he. he said that nobody was more surprised. than he was when he passed the bar he'd. already moved to Florida to resume his. Semi-Pro boxing career and then he. showed show up he shows up as this Petty. Tyrant you know and he does all these. really strange rulings as a judge he may.

as well have sat at the at the. prosecutor's table so what is this I. mean this is all so amazing I thought I. knew a lot about this I I didn't um as. you've watched the criminal prosecution. of Donald Trump as he you know becomes. the Republican nominee have have you. noticed similarities between what you're. seeing now and what you saw years yeah I. I I call them parallels but but it's. it's it's uh it's just unbelievable uh. the parallels and and and I I I don't.

like to write about Trump because I. don't have any in any inside information. yes but the suspicion is there based on. what I've proven about what happened in. Nixon so the j6. committee j6 committee is loaded with. Democrats uh Trump has no represent on. the committee nominal Republicans but no. defendant Adam kininger they don't they. don't look at why the capital was.

unguarded they start at a certain point. and go forward they've misplaced or lost. records that would would appear to be. helpful to Trump people but quot oh. they're gone we don't have those. interviews uh uh the charges this is I I. think this is astonishing just. astonishing. um Trump is tried in New York and and. they got to get a felony in order to.

have an extended uh statute of. limitations you know this is the fix is. in from the beginning The Defenders. don't know the charge against Trump. until the prosecutor's summation at the. end of the trial yes you faked your your. accounting but there has to be another. felony and they didn't name the other. felony so today it's one of three. doesn't have to be a majority of the. jury that's why it's on. appeal the prosecutors decided in a.

secret meeting with CA that the law was. too. unclear as to whether you could indict a. sitting president. it's it's assumed today but there's no. decision so they decided rather than. litigate that let's take all the. evidence that we we've gathered to. indict Nixon send it to the house. Judiciary Committee so they can impeach.

Richard Nixon now there's different. standards on on indictment only. prosecutors have access to grand juries. grand juries are Something Like a Star. Chamber uh uh it's conducted in secret. your attorney can't be in the room with. you you can't put on your own evidence. you can't cross-examine Witnesses you. you don't know what they said about you. when you get there you don't know what. they said about you when you leave so it. is a horror show if it becomes used for.

political purposes Congress doesn't have. access to a grand jury so Congress in. its. investigations is limited here's the. specially recruited special prosecutors. and they say what we know the house. Judiciary can't find out we could only. do it with a grand jury now parallel to. your grand jury operating in secret and. it's got to stay secret forever what the.

witnesses say you know what you what. happens in Vegas stays in Vegas Yes by. federal law no exceptions okay no no in. essence no. exceptions but when you go to prove that. in. court same evidence the six fifth and. sixth amendments come into play yes got. to be sworn testimony got to be evidence. got to be cross-examination got to be a. public trial got to be a jury of your. peers all this stuff so it balances out. even though the grand jury is a holy.

Terror particularly if you're called. I've I don't know if you have I've never. been called in front of a grand jury but. ter terrify you what the prosecutors. worked out. brilliant was let's send our evidence up. to the house Judiciary Committee and. we'll call it a presentment cuz the. Fifth Amendment say you can't be charged. a federal crime except by presentment or. indictment of a grand jury nobody's.

really sure what presentment means let's. call it presentment we'll send it up now. for just for a second assume what the. grand jury knows is garbage it's. untested okay it it shouldn't be it. should never see the light of day if. it's GNA it's got to have the counter. tests but they sent it to house. Judiciary and they said oh no got to be. secret can't be revealed to anybody so. Nixon's Defenders don't know what he's.

been charged with kind of out of nowhere. he's charged an unindicted. co-conspirator in the Watergate coverup. both special prosecutors said publicly. we would never do that to Nixon cuz he's. named but he can't come into court to. defend himself cuz he's not charged he's. un inded but they did it anyway and they. sent it up there to the hill secret. accusations of what Nixon did to cause.

them to name him a. co-conspirator that document is called. the road map now the road map is an. outline of 55 Pages fact John Dean is. named Council to the president underline. citation John Dean's grand jury. testimony okay fact citation fact. citation 55. pages but if you print out the. citations mainly to Watergate tapes or.

grand jury. testimony two reams of paper I tell you. nobody read the citations they just took. the facts as. facts they couldn't prove Nixon had done. anything wrong they couldn't prove that. Nixon was personally involved in the. cover okay so they lied they lied about. it they faked their evidence and it.

wasn't until. 2018 as a result of my court. petition that barl Howell then chief. judge unsealed the road map so for the. first time in 45 years we could learn. what Nixon was accused of having done. that justified his then his removal but. at the time his. indictment nothing short of incredible.

and I'm the only one you know you you. you get the impression I've drilled. pretty deeply in this stuff I'm the only. one that had the knowledge to go back. through and check all the citations and. uncover way down in one of them they. fake it but what's so interesting is. like they removed the president of. United States and nobody thought to. demand an answer to the most simple. question which is what exactly did he do. wrong yes that is absolutely 45 years to. find out we were told it was there trust.

us and move on now you know we SP where. the Washington Post Yeah we spent a lot. of time on this and it's complicated as. it can be we help is on the way the 50th. anniversary is the 8th of of August and. we're we've produced and we're releasing. an hourlong documentary that summarizes. all this over the years I've written. three books uh one is concentrating on. the Kennedy people and how they. orchestrated this one is concentrating.

on the the Leon Jaworski's internal. files that describe all these secret. meetings and one centers on the road map. and the fact that the Congress was lied. to uh and and it's complex and people. can read the books but they really ought. to watch the movie and the movie is. going to come out on our website. wwww Watergate secrets.com. called the documentary uh Watergate.

secrets and betrayals orchestrating. Nixon's demise and it's narrated by John. o' Hurley and the genius is the guy who. wrote it George Bugatti because he took. my hugely detailed legal expressions and. he put him into language that Americans. can understand the high point so you can. get an appreciation of what was going on. now we got there this is funny we got. there because he wanted to produce a.

play on Nixon's impeachment okay and. here's the play bill it played Off. Broadway in August of. 2021 and and if you think about it for a. second you reduce all my. books to an hour and a half play you got. to pick out the highlights and the words. and and and and be. persuasive uh without taking up too much. time now what we've done same thing same.

people is produce a serious documentary. on those documents and we started with a. set of 24 that I put together for a. production we did for the Hoover. institution about a year ago and they. are 24 internal memos that tra. face the the exporte meetings which are. terribly wrong the suppression of. evidence that would have been helpful to. the defense the political naming of of.

defendants uh we only name Republicans. we don't name Democrats all laid out uh. uh in these 24 worst memos and we took a. selection of that to put in the. documentary can I ask you um thank you. for saying that and I'm going to watch. um I have two more questions for you. both sort of broader questions less. precise first is what did Nixon think of.

all of this do you have any idea he went. to his grave not knowing what had been. done to him one of the great. disappointments in life not even. suspecting what had been done and so did. Erman and. halderman so did to a large extent Chuck. Coulson Chuck died much later but I've. uncovered. what was simply not known now I I grant. you your knowledge of an interest in the. Breakin and and it looks.

peculiar good questions but that's not. what sunk Richard Nixon what sunk. Richard Nixon was hugely. biased. lawfare the perversion of the Criminal. Justice System designed to Drive Nixon. from office to void his re-election and. and to imprison his top AIDS and and. Nixon didn't understand that you no no. what did he think. happened I mean he well I'll tell you.

what I thought and and and maybe that's. what he thought until I discovered these. documents I thought of Watergate as a. tragedy let me let me read you the. definition of tragedy Greek Greek. tragedy okay uh uh in Poetics. Aristotle's book he defines the ideal. tragic hero. as a man who's highly renowned and. prosperous but not one who is. preeminently virtuous and just whose. Misfortune is brought upon him not by.

Vice or depravity but by some error of. judgment or Frailty and then that's. Nixon and then the the uh there's the. interpretation of Shakespearean tragedy. which envisions a setting in which a. moral order reacts violently and. convulsively against certain infractions. from this reaction comes the Calamity. which befalls the hero frequently way.

out of proportion to the infraction. itself and within This calamity there is. a dominating impression of. waste now you could say that's that's. Watergate too and that's what I believed. I thought he should have resigned I I. believe the The Smoking Gun said what. was was properly interpreted as as being. a part of the. coverup uh and then I started. discovering these. documents and and you you I picture.

myself sometimes as a monk you know. sitting up on a high topped desk in a. monastery in the Middle Ages with a. candle here going through Dusty. manuscripts and discovering what we've. been told is the opposite of what was. written down at the time the memos that. I've covered are nothing short of. incredible and and what distinguishes my. work from allegations from suspicions.

today is I've got this paper trail I. mean nobody can refute these documents. are either at the National. Archives released on on on on the web. you can go read them uh or up at Harvard. who would question Harvard but they hand. they handwritten notes from uh uh from. forberg but did I mean did you ever. speak to Nixon after you left office I. did not I went out for his. groundbreaking I went out for his.

funeral I decided it was better not to. remind him uh of my role on on his. defense team now he remember I'm just a. staffer I'm just a kid right but he knew. who I was uh there's this one happy. sequence where Jerry Ford gets my name. wrong and Nixon corrects him in the. cabinet room on on on on on my name so. that pretty proud moment uh there's. another segment in the in the cabinet.

room when we have the Republican. leadership up and and Nixon is it it. gets an odd feeling every once in a. while and he starts talking about these. really bright lawyers who are on the. staff and Jeff Shepard in particular is. just he works so hard and he's so bright. and he goes on and on and on and Tom. corus recently passed away great guy. starts writing down this fake newspaper. called leader news and he's got a.

picture it says Shepherd star Rises. enormously so he's got a handwritten. shepherd with a crook and a sheep and a. star and it says president Praises. Shepherd 40 times uh the cabinet is at. risk Shephard's going to get a Shaffer. car bigger office I mean just and it was. embarrassing but it it sure stoked my. ego I bet bet it did so but Nixon I mean. I didn't know Richard Nixon um but I you.

know he did several interviews famously. with David Frost but others where this. came up and he seemed not very bitter. about it or not well but that's. self-control yeah you know one of the. really interesting things about Nixon. he's he's in the military he's in the. Navy goes to the front Pacific and and. he sets up a hamburger stand all this. kind of stuff but he plays poker and he. comes home with $10,000 of winnings from. poker that funds his first campaign okay.

now to be that good you got to be able. to read people and you got to prevent. people from Reading you and and nobody. writes about that they don't understand. and and for Nixon it was. self-control so he says I don't blame. John Dean for doing what he did the guy. brought down the presidency but he makes. himself say that now on his final speech. on the. morning uh where he's going to go out.

and get on the helicopter it's he's. announced the night before he's gonna. going to resign he's saying goodbye to. his staff and I was I I was there pretty. bitter because of that tape but he says. you know you you just can't be. bitter if you're bitter if you return. hatred then you lose and the hatred will. consume you and at the time I thought it. was just P you know what do you say but.

he was being sincere he really believed. that a couple of the truths if I may. Nixon believed the truth was going to. come out without question when he would. allude to his prosecution or exposure of. aler his as a communist spy in 1946. 47 his the the statute had run on his. being a. communist what botched his up was uh his.

perjured testimony yeah so Nixon would. say from then. on remember out your his anything you do. don't purger yourself and in one of the. tapes he says because then you got two. problems you got the original problem. and you got the problem that you. perjured yourself that's right so I know. if people from the reelection committee. had come in which they didn't and said. what do I do he was for God's sakes.

don't lie you know that just digs you in. deeper he was told by John Dean after. the after the Breakin that nobody on the. White House staff. knew completely. clean they built their whole defense on. that he Dean neglected to remind them. about his meetings in the Attorney. General's office yeah so they they were. they were Nixon fi to the last. day we could put out a statement saying.

I'm not involved and neither are my two. top lieutenants Allman and Erman they. knew. nothing but then the game changed and. Dean to get out to get out from under he. says Ah but there was a cover. up I know there was a cover up because I. was running it and my word against. theirs there's no taping system with. those guys but you should trust me I. don't see how you protect yourself from. that yeah I mean and and the they were.

hated in the Press well that and that's. my last question and it has to do with. Nixon um not just during Watergate or. after his 72 reelection but really for. the scope of his career going back to. his the his case which I may be. answering my own question but the hatred. of Richard Nixon. um was like pathological I mean I don't. know how many books hating Nixon came. out Nixon is Monster Nazi evil dis what.

was that why the monomaniacal hatred of. Richard n well I I let's hurry to today. just for a second yes an assassination. attempt yes worried there may be more I. don't think people thought somebody was. going to take a shot at him I they hated. him they blamed him they dismissed him. as a criminal but he couldn't go out in. public because because he was so so. disliked but I think they felt Richard.

Nixon the man was the cause of all their. problems with the dominance of the. Democrat Party let me show you what I. mean here's a a a chart just to restate. you said they believe that Nixon was. personally cause of their problems as. the they were they were fading in. dominance okay okay so this chart shows. the presidency and the control of the. house and the Senate read is Republican.

blue is Democrat from. 1932 right so that's going back to the. first years of the depression and what. it shows Roos of course they they had. three4 of the House and. Senate uh Roosevelt's reelected four. times uh and just when Truman became. president they won Republicans won for. one session and when Eisenhower was. elected they won for one session those. are the Red Blocks at the bottom but.

then it reverted to Total Democrat. control and the Goldwater debacle in. 1964 gave the Democrats 2third majority. in both the house and the Senate they. ruled and who interrupts that well. Richard Nixon forget I Hower he was a. war hero he could have run as a Democrat. who did his Dirty Work Richard Nixon you. could believe I think wrongly but you.

could believe if you were a Democrat. that if you could get rid of Nixon the. man it would all go back to Democrat. dominance which is what it should be you. know that's what they would way is what. you're saying he was certainly in the. way now what they did my first book. about the k people they set out to have. three. goals they wanted to ruin Nixon and his. people okay they wanted to stop the.

Republican money machine in those days. Republicans had all the money Democrats. had all the. unions there was a Campaign Committee. set up in. 1970 midyear elections designed to elect. more conservatives whether they were. Democrats or. Republicans and and they raised a fair. amount of. money the Democrats investigated that a. part of what they're going to do and. they sent FBI agents or IRS agents out.

to interview 150 Republican donors to. this. 1970 group called The Townhouse project. because it turned out it didn't have a. registered campaign treasure. okay nothing to do with. Watergate at the time there was a. federal law on campaigns called the. Corrupt Practices Act of.

1925 it wasn't enforced anymore the last. prosecution was brought in. 1934 the Department of Justice testified. in. 1972 that they had a policy of non. enforcement but the special prosecutors. re-erected it sent their minions out. scare the living B Jesus out of donors. now if the IRS came to see you as a. prominent donor next time around you.

wouldn't play so they crippled the. Republican money machine and then they. launched investigations internal. investigations of every single potential. Republican candidate for president in. 1976 who would run against they assumed. Ted Kennedy so they had Jerry Ford's. full field investigations they didn't do. them but Ford had to be confirmed by. both the house in the Senate it was the.

most thorough FBI investigation they had. the. investigation his uh vice president was. Nelson Rockefeller they had an. investigation of Nelson Rockefeller what. did that find what well the allegation. was the allegation was he had given. money in support of McGovern to throw. the case on the Democrat side and they I. mean you talk about there's records. investigating this Ford tossed. Rockefeller and named Bob Dole as his.

running mate there's an investigation of. Bob Dole uh and Bob Dole had campaign. irregularities and finally oh John. Connelly they indicted John Connelly for. campaign abuse well bankrupted him in. the end well they did and then and then. there's Ronald Reagan governor of. California 3,000 miles away and there's. no file on Ronald Reagan but there's a.

memo that I published I put in my first. book and and the prosecutor says I just. want to follow up on our hallway. conversation and bring you up to date on. where we are on the investigation of. Ronald Reagan now I looked into it. remember Ross perau very well he had. what was it his his uh uh computer. company e ets e something EDS electonic. systems he wanted contracts from.

Medicare he got to process the stuff. yeah and he asked Congress for help in. getting those appointments to make his. pitch he didn't get them first time. around but he also wanted California's. cuz it was huge and the theory was he. might have. exercise undo influence in trying to get. the California contract we're just going. to look into it just just because he.

might be our. opponent you know you sit there and it. curls your hair so let me ask one last. question I said I would only ask one. more but here's my last question so you. show up in 1969 as a White House fellow. at the Nixon White House yes it's less. than six years after the murder of johnf. Kennedy yes. um and you know you're in the building. that Kennedy worked in did anyone talk. about that in 1969 through 75 when you. left did anybody say you know I think.

this warring commission thing is a. little weird no that never came up in in. my president ever what we did talk about. was Nixon's absolute paranoia that Ted. Kennedy would emerge as his opponent in. 1972 and they would steal his reelection. just like they stole 1960 but I can't. remember a single conversation about the. Warren Commission how interesting even.

when Jerry I know you you say you know. Jerry Ford got named he was on the. Warren Commission he was uh and and of. course the arand Spectre single bullet. theory is simply bizarre it is bizarre. simply bizarre as a rifle shooter I'll. say that's just false but well yes on. his cot in the hospital but no. discussion but remember I'm I'm very. Junior I'm part of a governance group of. course no no. campaigning uh I'm I'm hatched I never.

participated in any campaign and it's. absolute fluke that I got hired to do. governance issues well and that's why. you're still here unbowed you know. that's why I have a clearance from but. can I ask you so you say now I keep I'm. viting pled not to ask you more. questions but okay this is the last one. so you said Nixon was worried that. Kennedy would run against him in 72. instead of a govern and that they would. steal the election as they had in 1960.

yes Tarter is did Nixon sincerely. believe that the 60 election was stolen. from him and did and was. it well he believed there were grounds. for. investigation uh and he was urged even. by President Eisenhower to challenge the. outcome remember it's Illinois and the. late ballots from mayor Daly and all the. dead who voto West Virginia and yeah.

well that's where they bought the. primary yeah with with Kennedy money in. West Virginia and. Texas where interestingly Leon jorski. leads the the defense and claims in. Texas there's no law there's no standing. to come into Texas and claim. that the election was stolen that's a. that's a fascinating comment and and Le. jorski the special prosecutor before. before this is in 1960 right but but.

ultimately the the one who brought down. Nixon. yes was 14 years before leading the. defense yes of Jack Kennedy's theft of. the 1960 election in Texas you know. there's these currents and. edes Leon jorski was captured by his. staff he went in and wanted to conduct a. fair criminal investigation that's what. he was hired to do and he actually. writes a memo to his deputy and says.

this place has got one theme that Nixon. must be reached at all cost those were. his words at all cost I can't even work. with the staff you guys are having. meetings before you meet with me so I. only get one point of view I'm not going. to meet with you anymore and then he and. and then he gets rolled by his staff so. we're asking for two things last last. answer okay we have a documentary the. documentary details everything that that.

has been done it's not thorough but boy. it touches on the big stuff got three. books three books contain all the. documents we're talking about and many. more so what what do we want from this. interview from knowledge that cheating. occurred we want two things one we want. the Department of Justice to go in and. disclose what the grand jury was told to.

convince them to name Nixon a. co-conspirator we've been demanding that. since they did it for 50 years we've. said tell us what you told the Grandeur. cuz we don't think you had anything on. Dick. Nixon Maybe they won't do it okay but. you can't compel that you can't compel. them to answer Grand jury's love to help. you son but grand jury information stays. secret forever okay that's the law but I.

thought I'm not a lawyer when I brought. my suit if I may when I brought my suit. to disclose the road map and I. prevailed the judge at the same time. said she was going to rule. against my motion to disclose the grand. jury testimony so the Department of. Justice called me and said we've been. asked to prepare the order finding. against you on that part of your. petition and I said but I'm not looking.

for a witness this is what the. department said so that was that was. that was my questionpoint I mean it's. one thing to protect yes what the grand. jurors say they're citizens who've been. brought in to affect Justice one hopes. yes but there's no justification for. keeping what government prosecutors say. about an American citizen why should. that ever be secret right right right. the judge Jud chief judge told the. department she's going to rule against. me so I said what I made the case begged. them I said okay what if I withdraw it.

so it there's not a decision against me. there's just no decision and they. eagerly accepted that so today as we sit. here we don't know what they told the. grand jurors in accusing Richard Nixon. of an indictable offense pretty much. everyone's dead I'm sure so like well. yeah but we still want to know second. thing there is a post-watergate. reform at the Department of Justice a. unit set up whose only responsibility is.

to investigate allegations of wrongdoing. by Justice Department lawyers it's. called the office of professional. responsibility was founded the year. after Watergate okay not didn't exist. during water game I learned about it. about a year and a half ago I. immediately filed asking for a review of. the. prosecutors look what they did and I. followed it up with 11 letters let me.

come down and explain this is complex I. got all the paperwork please let me come. make the case one year. passes I get a letter thank you for your. interest in the enforcement of the. laws we it's been a long time these. lawyers aren't here anymore we're busy. doing other things. and we take no responsibility for the. special prosecutors because. subsequent to the special prosecution.

Force they enacted the independent. Council law and we deem them to have. operated under that the Department of. Justice is simply not involved and I. sent it's posted on my website and I. sent back a letter and I said here's. your station AR for your letters and. your internal memos saying Department of. Justice of course don't tell me you. don't take so what we hope to interest.

and anger the American public look at. what we've uncovered Watch the. documentary read the books go on my. website and look at all the documents we. hope there's a new. administration at the Department of. Justice who's willing to look into this. cuz if they look into it. you know it's open and shut well just. disclose it just disclose it you you're. good at looking into it obviously. absolutely true Jeff Shepard I I really.

appreciate you're taking all this time. and explaining that this has been fun I. appreciate the opportunity Tucker thank. you been amazing thank you for having me. on thank. [Music]. you so it turns out that YouTube is. suppressing our show I know shocking. that in an election year with everything. at stake Google would be putting its. thumb on the scale and preventing you. from hearing anything that the people in. charge don't want you to hear but it. turns out it's happening so what can you.

do about it well we could whine about it. but that's a waste of time we're not in. charge of Google or we could find a way. around it a way that you could actually. get information that's true it's not. intentionally deceptive and the way to. do that on YouTube we think is to. subscribe to our Channel subscribe and. you'll have a much higher chance. of hearing what we say and we hope you. will.