Steve Sailer: BLM, Karens, Donald Trump, and What Democrats Don’t Want You to Know about DEI

So, you're saying you think that was. the Sacklers and the Mexican drug. cartels targeted rural whites, Appalachian whites for example, on. purpose because they knew that nobody. would care when they died? Yeah, the New York Times has put in a. lot of effort in recent years explaining. the racist sexist slur of Karen. as this anti-white woman slur to their. their millions of subscribers so that. they know just the right time to use it. and they and they make sure not to use.

it on any on any non-white uh Karen. My impression is that most of the. readership of the New York Times is. Karens. Yeah, I I would think. Let me. What I mean by that is like screechy. fragile barren NPR-listening middle-aged. lawyers. And 39% more blacks died in car crashes. in 2021 than in 2020. Yeah. Did Trump read my 2000 article? Nah, but. what else was he going to do? That was.

That was the one path to the presidency. Will it work this time? So, I got to say it it's a little weird. to be sitting across from you in my.

barn. You're I was thinking this morning. you're you're almost like Matt Drudge. used to be. You know, everyone read the Drudge. Report starting in the '90s um but no. one wanted to admit it in the news. business but everybody read it but. Drudge himself was this mysterious. figure. I actually knew him sort of. I've never met you. Everybody I know on. both sides has read you for years. You're not crazy. You're not a bigot. But somehow you became a sort of. mysterious outlaw figure that no one was. allowed to meet or talk to. Is it weird. to be out in public?

Uh yeah, actually is. I uh. you know, for 10 years from 2013 into. 2023, you basically couldn't go see Steve. Sailer give a speech anywhere. Uh. you know, I was I was being signed up. for conferences. My The last speech I. gave in 2013 was an analysis of the. Obama versus Romney exit polls. Didn't. seem all that controversial to me,

but for the next decade, every time. uh I'd be invited to a conference, and. about 6 weeks later I'd get a email. going, "Well, it turned out the SPLC or. Media Matters went to the hotel and said. that this is just deplorable, and you might find also that the local. Antifa, the black block guys, uh were. thinking about protesting, and you know, how that can turn into violence and so.

forth." So, they canceled our contract. So, you know, the. I just kept writing, uh but all suddenly. ice started to break up maybe last year. and this year. I've been doing traveling. around the country and meeting people. who've been reading me for years or just. started reading me. It's It's a lot of. fun. I. I appreciate it. It's just funny though because, you. know, in a world where there are some. wackos and there are people who advocate. violence,

you would seem to be maybe the last. person. who would scare people. I mean, you're. effectively an informal academic or. social scientist. You're a numbers guy. Yeah, I'm kind of like Bill James, the. baseball statistics analyst for. uh the social sciences in the US. I've. like. for 3 years now I've been. raising a stink about, "All right, what. was the impact of Black Lives Matter on. black lives and as far as I can tell. it's got black lives matter during the.

two eras of triumph after Ferguson in. 2015-16. and then the big one. during the Floyd effect the racial. reckoning of the 2020s. they've gotten an incremental 15 to. 20,000 extra black lives murdered. through. criminal homicides versus the baseline. or just splattered on the pavement. through increased traffic fatalities. But so all killed by white cops?

No, the vast majority of black shooting. deaths is at the hands of other blacks. There was a for example in 2020 there. was just an enormous explosion in mass. shootings with at least four dead or. wounded at black social events. Um. This is you know, we we we talk about. mass shootings a lot but as the New York. Times did a big study in 2016 and.

concluded that. almost 75%. of the mass shootings with at least four. victims. wounded or killed. take place in black on black. events typically Saturday night at the. club or a funeral. Um. some of some of them are organized crime. very strategic like in the TV show The. Wire but a lot is just one guy disses. another guy and people pull out guns and.

start shooting. And. yet that's very little interest to the. Democratic establishment the need for. what I call point of use gun control. The the Democrats tend to obsess over. the need for point of sun of sale gun. control to keep rednecks out in the. country from buying rifles, legally. buying rifles at Walmart.

And in truth, what we've seen. like in the 1990s into the 2010s in New. York City where. people like Giuliani, Bloomberg, and. Bratton did a great job of bringing down. the murder rate. What really works is. point of use gun control. You discourage. lowlifes from packing their illegal. handguns when they go out because. they're more worried about the cops and. getting caught.

carrying an illegal piece. So, they. leave it up in their grandmother's uh. uh attic and stuffed away. And the fewer. people who are carrying guns on the. streets in in New York City the the. fewer less often they pull them out and. start shooting, and you get this. virtuous cycle. But, you know, nobody. understands that. So, in in during the. great awakening of the last decade, and. especially during the the what was.

called what used to be called the racial. reckoning before the whole George Floyd. thing has pretty much gotten memory hold. lately. Uh just huge increases in the black. deaths by murder and by car crash. Okay, so Let me back up. You said a. bunch of different things I want to. follow up on. Um but, let's just start. at the very beginning. You said the. George Floyd thing has been effectively. memory hold. Yeah. What was the George you know, it's been. almost exactly 4 years since that. happened. Yeah. Memorial Day 2020.

With that the benefit of you know, some. time to think about it. What was that? What. What was it? Um. To to a large extent, it it didn't. happen the or the the follow-on events. such as. uh a huge increase in the murder rate, uh especially among blacks. Uh. the murder rate was 44%. more blacks were killed uh.

by homicide in 2021 than 2019, the year. before. And 39% more blacks died in car. crashes in 2021 than in 2019. Car crashes. Yeah. It all ties together because. when the establishment, as they did. after George Floyd's death, said, "Okay, here is the biggest problem in America, even bigger than COVID for the moment,

is that. we impose too much law and order on. African-Americans. We are uh. pulling them over for ticky-tack things. like speeding and not having. registration on their car and just. driving badly. And then we're we're. checking for. outstanding criminal warrants and maybe. searching for illegal handguns. This is. all incredibly discriminatory.".

So the cops went, "Oh, okay. You don't. want us to do that? All right. We'll be in the donut shop." And so the. number of traffic stops dropped way. down. So people started driving worse. They drove faster. And they started. carrying illegal handguns more. And the. and the number of shootings, the number. of homicides, just went through the roof. uh just immediately. I can show. week-by-week. data uh from the Center for Disease.

Control. It's pretty astonishing. Beginning with George Floyd's death and. the riots. Yes. I mean, the. the uh. the all-time most murderous day in the. storied history of Chicago's. murder. uh narrative, you know, going back. blowing away the St. Valentine's Day. Massacre by Al Capone and all that, was. May 31st, 2020, 6 days after George.

Floyd's death, when 18 Chicagoans were. murdered that day. Why? Pretty much cuz. the cops went down to the Magnificent. Mile to keep it from being torched and. looted, and the word quickly got around. that you can do anything you want in the. neighborhood, and nobody's going to. going to notice, and so all sorts of. vengeance was just taken on, you know, on random people out there for, you. know, for personal reasons. And then it.

just went on and on for several more. years. Fortunately, last year or so, the. murder rate started finally to come. down. You don't think there's any And you have. the numbers, right? Can we Can we see. them? Yeah. You don't think there's any question. that this was related. Yeah, let's. to the Floyd story, to the Floyd events. Let's take a look. Let's take a look at the CDC's. data. uh. weekly.

All right. This is the Center for Disease Control. collects data weekly. Mhm. on all the deaths in the United States. You can ask for any one particular. thing. So, uh this is weeks from 2018. into uh 2023. Uh. the blue line indicates the beginning of. COVID lockdowns. The black line is. George Floyd's death.

All right, the red line is the number of. African Americans who died by homicide. that week. So, it's bouncing around, has. some seasonality. In 2018, 2019, George Floyd dies and suddenly, boom, it. goes to this enormous peak and then just. slowly fades over the next uh four. four years into 2023. immediately it's the second George Floyd. OD. Yeah, people start shooting each. other.

Yeah, about probably probably the by the. Friday after he died on Memorial Day on. Monday. It just like, you know, there was just a giant cultural. revolution and basically people lost. fear of the cops because everybody, the. establishment, the media, the politicians were telling. the America that we have too much. policing. and too much law and order. And so, we.

got a lot more murder. Uh it's kind of ironic cuz the name of. the movement was Black Lives Matter and. it wound up getting an enormous number. of black lives. uh murdered incremental versus what you. see in 2018 versus 2019. I mean, that is. absolutely Yeah. This is one of the. biggest. findings in the American social sciences. uh probably since uh. Angus Deaton and Case's finding in 2015. of deaths of despair and how the white.

working class's life expectancy was. dropping in the early 21st century. Uh. the other but the big part of it is. that oh, it also applies to motor. vehicle accident deaths. So, you could. see this pretty consistent level. Um African Americans have all have. traditionally been not bad drivers. Uh they don't have the kind of problem. with driving traditionally the way they. had with homicide, but boom, a new.

plateau that's endured ever since. And to to put this in a longer term. historical perspective, let me uh. Let me find. um graphs of the CDC data monthly going. back to 1999. through 2000. uh and 21. Uh. These are homicide deaths as opposed to.

murders perpetrated. So, these these are. the races of victims and blacks, Hispanics, whites in blue. Uh. Well, that is quite a shock. 911. there. That's what it is. 3,000. Americans. Right. die by homicide at the hands of of. Al-Qaeda. Okay. And then most years. you've got Yeah, you've got More people. get murdered in summer than in winter. They're out partying and so forth. But,

it's pretty consistent. You can see an. increase over here in. the the the Ferguson effect after the. Black Lives Matter emerges in 2014, uh. which was a pretty decent year. And then. all of a sudden uh. murders go up dramatically in 2015-16. That helps get Trump elected. You might. remember how Black Lives Matter. terrorists were assassinating cops in.

Dallas and Baton Rouge and so forth. Uh although that's really been memory. holed. Uh anyway, Jeff Sessions came in. Kind of told the police departments, "No, you know, we're not going to. persecute you for taking for doing your. jobs." All right. Then Trump got rid of. Sessions. Maybe murders started going up. a little more. And then comes 2020 and. the. um. and the George Floyd racial reckoning.

It's just enormous increase compared to. anything else in the 21st century. Now, one reason we don't hear about this is. cuz these graphs are kind of. embarrassing because the black line of. homicide death rate is so much higher. than than the um the white brown. Hispanic line there. Hispanics actually. in the 21st century have done a pretty. good job of lowering their hom- uh their. rate of being murdered. Uh and finally.

though, when the racial reckoning came. along, it got worse again. So, we've. losing a bunch of that progress. The. blue line is the white line down there. It's an order of magnitude below the. black line. It's considered really bad. taste to notice. um. you know, differences in the homicide. rate. Uh the other thing I'm but I point. out is motor vehicle deaths. Motor. vehicle deaths per capita, this isn't. per mile driven,

uh weren't too bad weren't they didn't. have big racial differences in the past. Uh whites the whites in the blue line. often had the worst. Blacks weren't bad. Hispanics weren't good. But then after. 2008, Hispanics actually got better. And the brown Hispanic line is doing. pretty good until the racial reckoning. But you can see the black line just went. through the roof again compared to the. rest of the 21st century. So, what's.

happened is during the great awakening, during the era of Black Lives Matter, what we see is that deaths. two different kinds of deaths, homicides. and car crashes, what I call deaths of. exuberance in contrast to Case and. Deaton's deaths of despair, uh seem to be have gotten highly. correlated. When Black Lives Matter is. winning, uh. people die but people, especially black. Americans, die more deaths of exuberance.

until Black Lives Matter goes out of. fashion again and the cops are allowed. to like pull over bad drivers and check. for illegal handguns. Uh so, does anybody know that? No. Well, it's it's hardly caught on at all. I. mean, part of the problem is because I. discovered in 2021. then if you're a social scientist and. you want to write a paper for an. academic journal, it's kind of like. either Well, either I cite Steve Sailer.

but I might get canceled for citing this. horrible crime thinker or I don't cite. him and then his followers on Twitter. all get real mad at me for not citing. him. Uh. here's my view. Just go ahead, don't. cite me. Just get the word out there. It's It's more important that America. know about how badly it's screwed up, how many tens of thousands of. incremental Americans have died because. America America's elites get infatuated.

with Black Lives Matter now and then. than it is for me to get publicity about. it. Why do the bad people have so much. power? Cuz the bad people have all the. money. Where'd they get all the money? You gave it to them by using their. businesses, businesses that undermine. this country and empower countries that. don't seek the best for your family. Trust us. But there is an alternative. It's called Public Square. Public Square. is a network of over 75,000 independent.

businesses, small businesses in this. country from which you can buy guns and. ammo, fresh food, household goods, things you you need to live. And when you buy them, you can feel. certain that you are not doing a bad. deed, you are doing a good deed that. will make this a better and more. independent country and make your kids. future brighter. PublicSquare.com. We are honored. We are proud to have. them as a sponsor of this show. These numbers are. pretty striking when you see them.

graphed out like this. Yeah. But they comport with what you notice. Yeah. already. I mean, you sort of knew that, you know, when you have riots, people. die. And a lot of people who died were black. Not all, however. Um but it was pretty. obvious from day one that Black Lives. Matter wasn't helping anybody, including. and maybe especially black people. So, like what would be the motive? What's the motive? There were a lot of motives uh. for Black Lives Matter. One one was that.

America had gotten better. uh. after the 1990s, after the crack wars, at policing, uh. that uh. the drugs that were driving crime were. not particularly marketed to inner-city. blacks, the opioids, the oxycodone, and. so forth. Even the when the uh Mexican. cartels started selling uh black tar.

heroin, they also focused like the. Sackler family on like you know, who are. a bunch of people if they drop dead, nobody's going to care. And that's like, white people in small towns in Kentucky, that kind of stuff. So, you had these had this big rise in. deaths of despair. Wait, so you're saying you think that. was a. the Sacklers and the Mexican drug. cartels morally equivalent, I would say, or close? Um.

targeted. rural whites, Appalachian whites, for. example, on purpose because they knew. that nobody would care when they died? I mean, it's it's the theory of. a good reporter named Sam Quin- Quinones. who's written a couple books on. the evolution of the drug trade in this. century. Uh that. the Mexican cartels had a strategy that. no, we we don't want to sell to. particularly shooty people near media.

capitals. We'll sell to. people who will overdose in quiet in. just kind of take it small towns in the. Ohio River Valley that nobody's going to. care much about. And so. I mean, nobody paid any attention to. this increase in the white working class. death rate until just fortuitously in. 2015, Angus Deaton was awarded the Nobel Prize. in Economics. Then a couple weeks later,

he and his wife published this important. paper saying, "You know, if you look at. the CDC data, life expectancy for white working class. people without you know, without college. degrees has been dropping in the 21st. century. It's not supposed to happen. And it seems to be overdoses on. painkillers. It seems to be suicide. It. seems to be alcoholism. Just. deaths of despair. Seven years into Obama.

Yeah. Yeah. 15 years into the into when it. started around 2000 when the the Sackler. family is Purdue Pharmaceuticals started. their big push for. opioid prescriptions. But how would no one notice this, I. wonder? Uh. you know, there's no organizations. dedicated to to the welfare of white. working class people. So the fact that. they're dying in great numbers of novel. causes, it basically relied on two.

academics. and who. said, "Wow, this is interesting." And. one of them happened to win the Nobel. Prize just before their paper came out. So, people paid attention to their paper. cuz oh yeah, I heard about Angus Deaton. and the Nobel Prize last month. kind of if I can just ask you what it. was is I think you're right, but it's. sort of interesting if you think about. it. There are no organizations dedicated. to the welfare of rural whites.

Yeah. But, there are. a lot of organizations dedicated to the. welfare of a million other groups that. are much smaller in number. Yeah. Um so, why aren't there any. organizations dedicated to that? You know, a few people have tried to set up. organizations that speak for white. people. the way that Al Sharpton speaks for. black people and countless other. organizations speak for Jewish people or. Latinos and so forth and are highly.

respectable and are constantly quoted in. the newspaper. You know, a bright, very gentlemanly fellow named. Jared Taylor tried to. do this for the last 30 years and you. know, and he's still banned on Twitter. at this point. You know, it's. America has a phobia about anybody. speaking up for the emerging white.

minority. Everybody, you know, the conventional wisdom is. that whites are rapidly being turned. into a minority and that's a good thing. and. but we're not going to treat ever treat. whites like. the minority that they're becoming in in. multiple states across the country. We're going to treat them as the all. powerful, omnipotent legacy majority who. can be blamed for everything from now.

on. But that's I I certainly. It sure looks that way. Well, I think it's absolutely right. But. if their life expectancy is declining. faster than anyone else's and they are. dying then. I mean, it it does seem. a little odd. Yeah. to lie about that. It I mean, what's the. intent there? It's. It's a nobody lied so much as they just. wonder, why are you interested in this?

What kind of sinister reason do you have. for worrying about. the 100 million working class white. people in the country who are generating. these not new problems and dropping dead. from them. and you know, putting out the alarm. about it. is uh. is just considered some sort of white. supremacist, white nationalist.

uh. you know, dog whistle that you know, will lead to slavery and the Holocaust. and all sorts of imaginings. Um and you know, the the other half of. the white population wasn't suffering. Um you know, they they weren't. the you know, the the the kind of people. who don't have a bad back cuz they don't. lift heavy things on the on the job. You. know, they're not hooked on oxycodone or. uh or when prescriptions got tightened. up, they didn't go over to Mexican.

heroin and. and then to fentanyl and so forth. So, uh you know, who cares? Uh we're just. talking about deplorables here. But okay, I mean, I get you know, everyone has preferences and a lot of. people um in Washington, New York, and. LA don't like the voting patterns of the. population you're describing. But they. are human beings and Americans and if. they're going extinct. um or they're dying in huge numbers in. any case. uh.

to ignore that or downplay it is is. evil, isn't it? Yeah. I mean that they. to to my view they are our fellow. American citizens as are African. Americans. And so the fact that black lives matter. in this ironic. complete self-destructiveness. brought about just historic changes in. the number of black lives dying in kind.

of the opposite of the death the working. white working class deaths of exuberance. that you could see it in the Ferguson. effect in 2015-16 and that now in the. huge Floyd effect of the 2020s. I mean we're talking. uh. but something like an incremental 15 to. 20,000 more blacks. have died in those in car crashes and. murders. than if the baseline of a few years ago.

had had been maintained. And that's. that's just enormous. That's that's. easily the black death rate death total. in Vietnam, maybe Vietnam and Korea put. together. Uh. and people should be talking about that. too because African Americans are our. fellow American citizens and we ought to. be like keeping an eye on them and. not refraining from noticing just. because it's embarrassing, just because. Who's getting embarrassed by it, too?

elites, the conven- the propounders of. the conventional wisdom, uh. the respectable prestige press, academia, uh the Democratic uh party and so forth. that they they promoted all of this. stuff. They took Black Lives Matter. at face value and did very little. investigation. I mean, basically. you weren't any more allowed to ask the.

question like, "Okay, blacks. men tend to get shot by the police about. two to three times as often as white men. per capita." That's That's That's a big. difference, but it's nowhere near as big. a difference as uh. blacks tend to get shot by each other. about 10 times as much as whites get. shot by each other and probably blacks.

get shot by non-police whites, you know, dozens of times less often than they're. shot by other blacks. Um you know, black. young black men in this country have. an enormous homicide problem, a gun. homicide problem. I looked up for. young for males age 15 to 34, their. death by gun homicide in 2022.

And. blacks young black men died about 50, not 15, but 50 times more per capita. by gunfire than young Asian men, 24. times more than young white men, and six times more than Hispanics. Uh. they. Hispanics are fairly comparable in. poverty rate and education and so forth.

and but they don't have anywhere near. the kind of gun problem that uh African. Americans have developed and I think. but is anybody out there asking. young African-Americans and telling. them, you know, you if you guys could. not get your homicide rate down to the. Hispanic level, if you could get it down. halfway from where it is now to the. Hispanic level, this country would be so.

much better off and race relations would. be so much better. But you know, you're not supposed to put. crime statistics like that in the. newspaper. It's just considered, you. know, racist to to mention all these. government statistics. not. you know, it's. reality is not. racist, you know, um, by definition. not. Right. But again, sorry to keep asking. variations to the same question, but. what would be the motive. in trying to hide something like that?

All right. I my theory is that it goes. back to the grand strategy of the. Democratic Party, which. uh. is enthusiastically assisted by other. forms of the establishment such as the. the prestige press, uh academia, much much of the corporate world as. well. The the Democrats have realized. over the last few decades.

that they could be that America's. becoming more diverse. Uh. immigration is driving diversity, uh patterns of interracial marriage, like more people who are have some claim. to be non-white. Um. also there's the constant generation of. new identities such as in in the last. decade, transgenderism. Um.

so as America becomes more diverse, the. Democratic Party can profit by being the. party of diversity, the party of the. diverse, the party of people from the. fringes of American society, the party. of people that the Democrats would call. the marginalized, from the margins of. American society. So, you're talking. about immigrants, you're talking about. black church ladies, transgenders, uh.

Jews, Muslims, etc., etc. Now, the one problem. with all this is. that while it's it works pretty well on. paper, and the Democrats have managed to. win the popular vote in seven of the. last eight presidential elections, uh the problem is keeping this coalition. of the fringes, the marginalized, from turning on each other, from. becoming a circular firing squad.

And. Because a lot of the components have. very little in common. Yeah, as we're seeing with Jews and. Muslims right now, it's, you know, these. people do not like each other. Do the. black church ladies, who are the. steadfast Democrats, do they. do they really get along that well with. the gays, much less with the. transgenders? Nah. Do the. do the Asian immigrants have much in. common.

with with Hispanic immigrants? Nah, not. really. Um. it can go on and on. It's it's inherent in the Democrats'. grand strategy to be the party of. diversity, the party of the fringes of. American society. So, uh. how can they unite their coalition of. the margins? And the one strategy the. Democrats have come up with is basically. to foster.

uh. a. racist animus against core Americans. People who uh. you know, basically are demographically. somewhat like George Washington, Ben. Franklin, John Adams. You know, that are. that are white, that are men, that are. straight, maybe they own homes, maybe. they're married, they have kids. Um.

So, the. and to make them the bad guys in the. American narrative. And that's the only thing the Democrats. and their colleagues in academia, etc., can think of to hold together this. diverse coalition. So, we've seen this. enormous increase in um. in just. racist. bigotry being expressed in you know, the. pages of the New York Times in this.

century. Things that in the past would. have been considered rather in poor. taste and extremist. So, the New York. Times will you know, is is putting a lot. of effort in recent years explaining the. racist sexist slur of Karen. as this anti-white woman uh. racist. uh slur to their their millions of. subscribers so that they know just the. right time to use it. And they and they.

make sure not to use it on any on any. non-white Karens and so forth. Uh You. you recently had on. Can I just say that my impression is. that most of the readership of the New. York Times is Karens? Yeah, I I would think. Let me. What I mean by that is like screechy, fragile, barren, NPR-listening. middle-aged lawyers. Yeah, that's. Yeah. Maybe the. the modal. subscriber, perhaps. And yeah, the.

you know, the New York Times is not the. failing New York Times anymore. It's. they've done a very good job of. identifying people who will pay to. subscribe to have their worldview. vindicated over and over again. And. and kind of for the times to bury. inconvenient facts that don't support. their view of the world, you know, in. the 27th paragraph or something like. that. Um. So yeah, you recently had on Jeremy.

Carl. He's got a new book, The. Unprotected Class, that documents a. great length just this trend toward ever. more uh. anti-white racism in the respectable. press and in media and the Democratic. speeches and so forth. And you know, I it's finally starting to. to. to backfire on Democrats. People are. starting to notice just just how much.

awful stuff is said about kind of the. core Americans that tend to vote. Republican. So, I don't know what I mean, have you. have you been seeing this just over the. last 10 years? Just huge increases in. in putting down white people. Have I noticed it? It's the one of the. defining facts of American society and. it's and it's always perpetrated by. people who are simultaneously in the. same sentence giving you a lecture about.

racism. Yes. Shut up, white man. You're evil for. being white and racist. Huh? There's so many like the contradictions. in that sentence are are so inherent. that um. it's hard to believe anyone could utter. it. But no, of course I noticed that and. I guess what I'm really struck by, and I. don't know the answer, is why people put up with it. So so at that point it's like, well, you know, like if you're attacking my children for. their skin color, then I get my gun, right? But nobody does get his gun. They.

just sort of sit there and okay. Yeah, I mean say anything. Like what I. don't the. Why would anyone ever put up with that? I mean I mean why why do Americans go. out of their way not. to to just go, "Oh, yes, I hear what. you're saying about how the evils of. whiteness and and my children are. children of whiteness and they have.

oppressed the world.". And I've actually thought about that and. I while that may sound like just lowbrow. racist bigotry on your part, it actually. has a really impressive intellectual. heritage going back to the Frankfurt. School and Gramsci. and updated by. you know, in the critical race theory by. Marcuse.

and people go on and on about. uh you know, what what you're saying. isn't as moronic as it sounds and. hate-filled bigotry. It's it's actually. you're getting this and it all goes back. to Marxism or it's. or Foucault or something like that. Um. So yeah, Republicans whites have been reluctant. to to call out just anti-white racism.

for what it is. Well, why is that? I mean clearly. something. We're we're planning. inside, right? I mean like why would you. put up with an attack. that's. you know, inherently unreasonable, right? You don't choose your race. Therefore, you probably shouldn't attack. someone on the basis of his race. It's totally anti-American as defined by. consensus over the last 60 years. That's. one thing we're not allowed to do, and. yet it's done at greater scale now than. during the.

Jim Crow period. So, like why would you. even consider putting up with that? There must be something wrong with you. Like you hate yourself, obviously. Yeah, Republicans they. Republicans like uh. other other races and good for them and. uh. And yeah, they want they want to blame. the tendency that's been growing,

especially in the Black Lives Matter era. of the last decade, to just say the most. bigoted things. They They They want to. blame it on something old like Marxism. Uh this isn't what. uh African-Americans want to say. You. know, the my son's I I. my son's friends on his high school. football team, they're not they're not. bigoted racists. And the truth is, yeah, a lot of them aren't. I mean, a lot A.

lot of this stuff is coming out of. colleges and so forth. It's It's kind of. soft degree majors and so on. But. you know, taking claims to have some deep. intellectual heritage. is naive. It's just It's just people. with the soft majors who got DEI. sinecures and so forth in corporations. and colleges, you know, just expressing their.

their basic prejudices, their basic. bigotry. And. you know, we should be laughing at it. We shouldn't be taking it that. seriously. We should be satirizing it. and scorning it and making jokes about. it and. that could well get the message across. You may have come to the obvious. conclusion that the real debate is not. between Republican and Democrat or. Socialist and Capitalist, right, left.

The real battle is between people who. are lying on purpose and people who are. trying to tell you the truth. It's. between good and evil. It's between. honesty and falsehood and we hope we're. on the former side. That's why we created this network, the. Tucker Carlson Network and we invite you. to subscribe to it. Go to. tuckercarlson.com/podcast. Our entire archive is there. A lot of. behind the scenes footage of what. actually happens in this barn uh when. only an iPhone is running. tuckercarlson.com/podcast.

You will not regret it. So, can I ask I think a lot of people. assume that when whites who obviously. founded the country become a minority in. the country their ancestors founded that. it'll stop? Um. Well, what whites will be the legacy. majority. I mean. I'll give you an example. Uh. in 1955, a 14-year-old black child named. Emmett Till was was murdered.

for making. pretty uh. aggressive pass toward a white woman in. in the South. All right. Married white woman in a store. Yeah, in the store and then. uh that was a big story at the time and. helped lead to the Civil Rights era of. the 1960s. and then it sort of faded from the. newspapers. The New York Times mentioned. Emmett Till's name twice in 2000 1980. In 2000, they were up to mentioning him.

four times. By. I think 2018, they were mentioning him. something like one and a half times a. week about it. About as often as Chief Justice John. Roberts name appeared in the New York. Times. It just became this huge breaking news. story and they you know, I joke that. they had a you know, had a jet at. LaGuardia fueled up always ready to fly.

to anywhere to report on the latest. Emmett Till news. All right, this kind of antiquarianism. is increasing. because I mean the truth for liberals is. the liberals have been pretty much in. charge of most things. involving race for since the 1960s. and. they haven't really accomplished that. much. So they kind of want to hide their. record and focus people on pre-civil.

rights. antiquities such as Emmett Till or you. constantly hear these days about FDR's. redlining of FHA loans in 1938. as the reason that black neighborhoods. tend to have lower property values than. white neighborhoods or Latino or Asian. neighborhoods and you know, it couldn't.

have anything to do with current crime. rates. It couldn't have anything to do. with. with discipline in the local schools. It's got to do with the nefarious plot. of FDR. you know, in in almost 90 years ago. And. Why is no one so often you know, that. all these southern cities are famous. Mhm. in American culture for their. association. You know, the Edmund Pettus. Bridge Selma, Alabama.

Um. the you know, the trial in Wilmington. Oh, you know, there's like these moments. in the Civil Rights Era that people are. still, as you pointed out, talking. about. Philadelphia, Mississippi. Why. does no one ever go back to those. places, those physical places, and find out how they're doing? Yeah. Um yeah, Birmingham not doing that. well. Uh. Selma not doing that well. Um. Yeah, it's uh.

Yeah, the. what then ends up is you then have. you end up getting a long lecture about. how the construction of a freeway in. 1958 destroyed the booming. Black Wall Street of Birmingham or. whatever, and all sorts of things like. that. There's There's a large number. of. pre-canned excuses. Um. But is there any effort to actually. improve the lives of black people. that you're aware of?

I mean, what what does improve the lives. of black people? Uh. basically having some law and order, keeping people from carrying guns on the. street. Uh that's probably done quite a bit of. good. Um basically. uh the part the parts of the country. that are run by Republicans tend to have. somewhat better performing uh blacks. stu- students in schools and so forth.

For example, uh Frisco, Texas, a fast-growing exurb. of Dallas, has the smallest test score. gap of any school district in the. country. That has the highest It's about. 11% black and 20% Hispanic, and it has. the highest black and Hispanic test. scores in the United States. Really? And the smallest white-black gap in the. country. and you know, other places.

the great liberal cities like San. Francisco and Madison, Wisconsin. Oh, uh. tend to have bigger bigger um. gaps not just because they have a lot of. smart white people living there, but. they do a lazier job in San Francisco of. educating blacks uh. because you know, it's it's such a. liberal progressive environment that. they do a poor job of doing things like.

having well-disciplined schools and. focusing on basics and so forth. Um. So, yeah, there's a general I mean, there's been a general trend toward. blacks who have some have some choices. in life who are looking to get ahead, looking to do good things for their. their kids to be moving to the south, to. Texas, to red states and so forth where. you know, they can. um.

and away from the highly liberal parts. of the country. It's it's not a panacea, but yeah, it does some good at the at. the margin. Do you where are we on the continuum? In. other words, if the graphs that you. showed the four years after the Floyd. verdict or Floyd death, uh. like if you extended those, if you. doubled them, what would they look like? Where where are we now? Um. we're we're hopefully past the worst of.

the racial reckoning. What I've what. I've noticed in the newspapers was that. the front section around a few months. before the 2022 election seemed to get. the word from. maybe the Biden White House that like. you know, this whole George Floyd racial. reckoning thing, it's not going to be a. big vote winner in the 2022 midterms. especially in the in the New York City. area. Um, so let's let's go easy on it.

Let's not talk about it all the time. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea. What. and then it just sort of disappeared. from the serious. news part of the paper in the cultural. section in the back you you know, they. never got the memo. So there's. constantly discussions. about how okay. in a great leap forward. for equity at the Art Institute of.

Chicago. They fired all the nice white. lady docents who work for free giving. tours of the great artwork so they can. hire uh, people of color to to. then pay them to work there and stuff. like that and you kept hearing all those. kind of stories going on much longer. about the wonders of the racial. reckoning because you know, they hadn't. gotten the the message. Uh, but yeah, probably the Biden. administration.

uh, engaging in benign neglect about like. yeah, let's not. uh, persecute police departments quite. as hard as we were. has probably done some good about. getting the cops out of the donut shop. and actually pulling over. you know, people driving 100 miles an. hour. Uh, and so yeah, that's that's made some. progress, but it took the it took the. Hispanics while longer to get the get.

the word that the cops. weren't being proactive and so their car. crashing murder rates have gone way up. and you know, it's it's. even if things are getting better now, they're going to take a number of years. to get back to where we were in 2019, much less where we were before Ferguson. in 2014. You know, the the death rate is still up. like in these deaths of exuberance like. 30 to 40% over 2014.

And and way up over the, you know, non-black average. So, the You know, the. obvious question is like why? And this has been going on a long time. Has there ever been a serious. effort made in good faith. to figure out why rates of violence. among in black areas are so much higher, which they are and have always been, but. why? Yeah, people people have been studying. it. for the longest time. Uh, you know, Time.

magazine ran an article in the late '50s. about the biggest worry of big city. mayors is the growing problem of black. crime. Uh, you know, at this point. cities have done, you know, we we went. through a bunch of phases. We. liberalized the country in the '60s in. the Warren Court years. We cut uh the. imprisonment times and so forth. And.

that that wound up doubling the per. capita uh murder rate in the '60s and. '70s. It doubled? Yeah. It was by 1980 it was twice what. it was in 1961 per capita. That's a lot of dead people. Yeah, that's a lot of dead people. And. did did horrors to American urban life. People fled to the suburbs. They're. They're all now denounced as these. villains who engaged in white flight.

But, you know, like my my wife's family. lived in the in the Austin neighborhood. in the West Side of Chicago. And they. they. when it started to integrate, they. joined a a liberal Catholic group and. said, "Okay, we're all going to stick it. out and not and make integration work. and we're not going to flee to the. suburbs.". And. my in-laws stuck stuck it out 3 years. longer than the rest of the members of. the club did, but by that point the.

number of felonies against their. children was piling up. And so they. finally sold out at a. loss of like half of what they could. have gotten for their house if they'd. sold it 3 years before. Uh. tens of millions of people. views? What a tragedy for them? Yeah, it. they. you know, my my late father-in-law was. the tuba player for the Chicago Lyric. Opera. So So he ended up buying a farm.

63 miles out of town and then commuting. to work to play the tuba. in the opera house downtown. Um. Yeah, it was kind of a disaster for. them. And you know, there's tens of. millions of Americans who are still. alive who can tell these stories. uh of what actually happened. And the media's not that interested in. hearing them. You know, the media wants. to portray these people as the bad guys. who because of their bigotry and not.

because of all the felonies against. their children, you know, moved out to. the suburbs. Uh interestingly, right across the. street from where my. uh in-laws lived is the uh municipality. of Oak Park, Illinois, a suburb that. Ernest Hemingway supposedly said was the. land of broad lawns and narrow minds, but it's really nice. Has all this great. Frank Lloyd Wright architecture. They.

actually did something really. intelligent and really illegal in the. 1970s, which was they put a racial quota. on real estate agents. It was called the. block a block club and said, "No, you. can't make a huge fast windfall by. terrifying everybody. into selling right now and because it's. the whole block is going to tip black. You. We're going to do this in an orderly. fashion and we're going to use a racial.

quota." And. it worked. It kept. Oak Park from from going all black the. way the Austin neighborhood next door. has gone. And Austin just is bleak. It's. kind of post-apocalyptic looking now and. and Oak Park looks kind of like this gay. utopia for for older gay couples who. like fixing up beautiful Frank Lloyd. Wright houses. Uh. so,

you know, liberals did some things to protect. themselves, but they just didn't tell. anybody about it. Uh. So, was anyone ever held responsible for. any of this? You know, if you if you read the press, yeah, there's been huge condemnation for. of all the all the. uh white families that fled crime as.

that they're engaging in white flight. and if their grandchildren move back to. the city cuz the crime has come down a. little then then they're engaging in the. great crime of gentrification. You know, it's it's kind of can't win. can't you know, either way you lose. Um. You know, there's all sorts of talk. you know, Mayor Pete in the. transportation departments always.

denouncing racist roads that building. highways was destroying black. neighborhoods and so forth. Um, you know, we we've rewritten the past over and. over again. Uh, so we don't learn anything from it. because we just we just specify a few. important uh, a few things that fit this. narrative that everybody has now. Um, so, you know, we'll see. I mean, the the. obvious goal is.

what they call equity. And the term. equity. is is one of those words. It's not a secret what the DEI people. want when they specify equity. What. they're talking about when they're. talking about equity and generational. wealth and so forth is they want your. equity in your home, and they want to. tax it away and take it for as. reparations, and spend it on themselves.

And that's that's kind of the the bottom. line. Whether that'll get carried out, I. don't know. We've We've seen reparation. programs start to put out checks in. super liberal places like Evanston, Illinois. Uh, even California, the idea. of handing out huge checks to black. people for the the horrors of living in. California, um, didn't go that well. We have too too large a Hispanic. population.

Yeah, so we'll we'll. But can I ask you, how exactly would. um, the DEI community steal the equity out. of your home? Um, well, I mean, one start has been to reopen. ancient history, um, uh, what do you call it when the government. condemns your property and sells it and. buys it for what it thinks it's worth. Um we've we've seen cases of eminent.

domain. Yeah, eminent domain cases from. a century ago. We saw. Uh so, if you if if you're black and you. happen to have a family legend that we. used to own this really nice piece of. property, but then it got eminently. domain to make into a park, that that. was racist and we should get that. property back. So, uh. the descendants of a black family in. Manhattan Beach recently who. uh Manhattan Beach had had uh.

condemned their property and a few other. and some white neighbors of theirs to. build a park. And they recently got the city council. to declare that that was racist in 1928. And that if it wasn't for this, they no. doubt would have held onto the property. through the depression, through. everything that's happened ever since. They would They would have scrimped and. saved to hold onto that land next to the.

beach, which is now worth $20 million. So, they got a check for $20 million for. that. Uh for that. Um you you'll see, you know, this is a general trend that's. that's speeding up is uh. uh you know, plaintiff's attorneys are. looking for these old cases and you. know, it's not like they can re-litigate. the case cuz there's nobody alive that. remembers, that can testify or anything. like that. Um.

so, there'll be there'll be lots of. attempts like that to, you know, basically hand out large amounts of. money. And um. and maybe it maybe it won't be called. reparations, but uh but you'll see this. and it's it's definitely been increasing. in the 2020s. But doesn't demographic change through. driven by immigration. Yeah. Scrambled the formula a little bit. Yeah. So, you're I'm 55, you're older than I. am by a bit, but we both grew up in a.

country where. you know, it was white majority, black. minority. And with some we're from California, both of us. So, there was always a. Hispanic. component, but. um but I think most Americans sort of. thought of it as a white country with a. black minority. A mistreated black. minority, in some cases that was true. But that's not the country that we're in. right now, and it definitely is not the. country we're going to be in in 10. years, which is going to have a Hispanic. majority, a white minority, and then a much, much, much smaller black minority. So, I just.

wonder if the Hispanic majority is going. to be that interested in Emmett Till. Yeah. I mean, that's Yeah, that's. definitely. a. possibility. And And the. the establishment is working hard on. that to. to inculcate in the public schools that. Emmett Till was the most important. figure of the 20th century. Um they're.

they're working very hard to keep. together the. Democratic coalition of the fringes by. pointing at these horrible white men who. were the enemy and who also have all the. generational wealth and keep your eye on. the prize. Eyes on the prize. Which is other people's money. Yeah, other people's money. It's It's. white people's home equity, basically, and stocks. You know, baby boomers are. dying. Uh they're leaving. They're They.

want to leave their property to their. kids. This is a vast turnover of wealth. We need to get our our hands on some of. this. Um. Another question might be, you know, how. how big is the African immigration going. to going to be? If will go to look at. the border, there's all sorts of people. showing up from Mauritania, all sorts of. places. You know, in recent years, all over the world, the.

fertility rates are plummeting, except they're still way above. reproduction rate in in most of Africa. And. uh. it's not people know how to get out of. Africa now. You got a smartphone, it. gives you all the instructions and so. forth. So, you know, why not move somewhere. nicer? And you know, so the so the country. could well be um.

you know, I mean, Europe's getting much more. African and probably and America is, too, at this point. Um. the descendants of American slaves are. losing. out on their affirmative action and so. forth. I mean, 20 years ago, um. uh. uh two Harvard African-American studies. professors pointed out that. a huge fraction of the affirmative.

action spots at Harvard seem to be. reserved either for foreign elites whose. parents are, you know, foreign minister of Ghana or something. like that, or are or have one white. parent, or like in the case of the Obama. family, it's now a three-generation. Harvard family, both. uh privileges. And you know, not many. positions at Harvard go to. descendants of American slaves, the way,

you know, Michelle Obama is clearly. you know, highly legitimate descendant. of American slaves, and Barack, not at. at. Um but yeah, that's we're going to see. we'll see that. I mean American. corporations, they want if if they have. to meet DEI quotas, uh, they tend to. prefer immigrants for the jobs or people. maybe who are raised by their white. mothers or something like that.

So, uh, we'll we'll see where where this all. leads to. it all go politically? Well, actually. let me just take a step back. You. um, became famous to the extent that you. were famous in sort of a Samisdat kind. of way. 2016 for calling that election with some. with some accuracy ba- based on looking. at the demographics like. uh, tell us about your predictions that. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a kind overstatement, but.

it's it's it's more like in 2000. I became. the most outspoken critic of the new GOP. orthodoxy as promulgated by Karl Rove, George W. Bush's Svengali. And Rove's. theory was. that. what we need what the Republicans need. is to push through amnesty and much. easier immigration and that's what the.

Latino voters or future Latino voters. will will. they'll love us for that for bringing in. fellow Latinos. and then they'll all switch to voting. uh, Republican especially for the Bush. family which, you know, that. Jeb's son, uh, George P. Bush is half. Mexican and so the the future is the.

United States and Mexico demographically. merge, the Bush dynasty of WASPs and. Mexicans will carry on as the natural. ruling class of a of a. increasingly mestizo North America. Uh. and that's that wasn't. too implausible, but I kept asking. questions like do Mex- do Latinos really. care? And that much about immigration policy?

Are they Are you sure they really want. all their cousins from back home to be. moving in with them? Uh the one close Latino state is. Florida, and do the Cubans in Florida. really care about Mexicans, illegal. alien Mexicans? I haven't noticed that. And. I kept saying, you know, an awful lot of Latinos are in. California, and that's never going to go. Republican again. And the others are in. Texas in large numbers, and if that goes.

if that's up for play, then the. Republican Party is in really big. trouble. So, wouldn't it make more. sense, looking at the Electoral College. map, to go, well, look, there's all. these Great Lakes states, the Rust Belt, and. one of the things you see there is that. the white working class isn't anywhere. near as Republican as they are in the. South, and they're actually really close. in the Electoral College, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. So, why not do.

things for the white working class in. the north, and. such as limiting immigration, so that, you know, they can continue to be paid. pretty well. Uh. and focus on them. And yeah, that's. And the Republican establishment kept. going on with the Hispanic. uh plan. That was the big 2013 audit. that convinced Marco Rubio that we need.

uh. and so forth. Uh. but I kept saying, "Eh, you know, the way you win in the. Electoral College is these is these Rust. Belt states around the Great Lakes.". not see that? Uh. he. If I mean, for his loyalty to the Bush. dynasty, I really think George P. Bush uh. played a huge role in the Bush family's. thinking that because.

uh Jeb had married into a Mexican. family, that this gave the Bushes, out. of all the. WASP dynasties in the United States, the. greatest chance to exploit. uh. the immigration wave from Latin America. and to be the natural rulers. of um. of um um a Mexicanized population. I. mean, uh. George H. W. Bush had 10-year-old George.

P. Bush read the Declaration of. Independence at the 1988 Republican. Convention, which was a big deal cuz it. was because uh. the Democratic candidate had been. unenthusiastic about the Pledge of. Allegiance and so forth. So, you know, um. George H. W. was putting his what he. called his little brown one up there on. national television to. The LBO? Yeah, to get that started. So, so, yeah, it made sense to Rove.

you know, the the. the sense that the more you listened to. Rove that maybe he wasn't the genius we. were told he was. Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, he won he won an. election. He won Yeah, he got. he won a couple of elections for George. W. Bush. Um. but yeah, is is he this. genius? Nah. But, you know, the Republicans weren't. didn't, you know, didn't have a whole lot of people who.

crunched numbers in spreadsheets. So, in the first decade of this century, I. spent a lot of time analyzing. spreadsheets and so forth of election. totals and going, you know, it looks. like there's a different path here and. it really runs through the North Central. region. where. white working-class people vote about. 50/50 Republican and Democrat and you. can get that up to 55, 60%. you know, you can you can win a lot of.

electoral votes. So, did did Trump read my 2000 article? No, but. what else was he going to do? That was. That was the one path to the presidency. You know, almost worked again in 2020. under pretty adverse circumstances. So, Will it work this time? I don't know. Okay, I've given up making. predictions. I mean, people people came. along like Nate Silver who just.

were so much more interested in. predicting elections and worked so much. harder at it that I was like, "Eh, I don't have that gambling instinct that. that Nate does." And you know, uh. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to. retire from making predictions. I'm not. I don't see myself as a great forecaster. of the future. What I try to be is a. historian of the present and notice. things that are happening right now. So, what is happening.

with Hispanic voters? Um in in Texas. in Texas, it definitely seemed like the. racial reckoning of 2020 when the when. the Democrats went basically nuts over. blacks. alienated. quite a few Texas. Latino Democrats. Uh. in California, less clear.

Uh. you know, the. Does it even matter? I mean, California's not much of a democracy at. this point. Yeah, it's it it doesn't matter. It it. it's helpful in Texas in that the. Republican Republicans will basically. lose the White House forever when. Texas flips blue. Uh the good news in Texas is. that. basically they have a pretty. They have a pretty strong, loyal,

steadfast Republican white. population. A lot of the advantages of. Texas are that they're not tied into. guilt over the South. They were a. Confederate state, but they don't care. about that. They care about the Alamo. They've got this whole national. narrative. And it it helps keep them together. And. they provide strong leadership for. Hispanics, and Hispanics are less, you.

know, domineering than people were. talking about in the past. They're They. kind of look around at their upper. middle class neighbors and go, "Oh, okay. What do What do you do? You Oh, you're a Republican. Okay. That sounds pretty cool. I might be a. Republican, too." California, you know, the upper middle class is is. democratic, so the Hispanics follow that. lead. Um. So, I can't tell, you know, exactly. where it'll go. How does Trump change that? I mean, it.

it feels anecdotally like a lot of. Latin American immigrants like Trump. Yeah. I mean, what what Trump has done is he's. taken the appeal of the Republican party. uh a downscale. compared to say Mitt Romney, uh Mitt did a pretty good job of holding. on to suburban upper middle class, the. frequent flyer population. Uh. corporate executives and things like.

that. They feel one with him. Uh you know, Trump is picking up working. class people of all races. Uh that's. good, but you know, it's it also is kind. of taking. uh the Republican Party downscale. intellectually. Uh you know, you're getting more dumb. conspiracy theories out of Republicans, etc. Um. you know, it's. I if if can the Republicans.

keep some competent uh. higher brow people around, you know, that's another question. What do you think? I mean, a big a big question is how much. is this totally a. uh a. hit uh Trump's personality. I mean, you. know, 2020 2024 it looked like Ron. DeSantis. had like studied Trump and said, "Okay,

Trump's got some interesting new ideas, some post-Romney ideas, and I'm the. competent uh well-educated guy who reads. all the fine print, and I can I can. implement some of these.". And that didn't seem like a bad pitch, uh but just when it didn't go over at. all. I you know, as soon as the. Democrats started started arresting. Trump for all sorts of charges,

then you know, that. that helped solve the Democratic. nightmare that the Republicans were. going to nominate a. a competent 40-something to run against. their octogenarian incumbent. And so now. we we're stuck with a with a rerun of of. 2020. that's what it was? It was the. legal persecution of Trump. Yeah. It seemed like that blunted. DeSantis and basically Republicans went.

back to Trump and went like, "Oh, if the. Democrats are going to do that, then. we're going to stand by Trump." And. yeah, you know, if the you know, the. arresting. a major candidate is un-American. It's. it's totally. uh shameful in the United States. history. And the Democrats didn't get in. the way and go like, "Oh, let's let's. not do that." They let local. politicians, you know, kind of run amok.

like this New York case. And and so they got the they got the. nominee they wanted, uh Donald Trump. But now they're now they're real worried. they're going to get the president they. don't want, Donald Trump. So we shall see. So you're the the reason that you've. emerged from. your cave in Tora Bora. uh. coming to the Sorry. Um is because. you've got a book.

Yeah. It's a beautiful-looking book. Um and it's collected. uh journalism. 1973 to 2023. Um you don't look that old. Uh but it's called Noticing. What does. that mean? Yeah. Um. I'll hold it up here. Uh. I mean, it it's it's a slogan that I. took from George Orwell, who said that. to. to see what's in front of one's nose.

takes a constant effort. And I'm trying. to make it. easier for people to notice the. realities that they see around them and. to. uh. to to understand that what they see with. their own lying eyes in their daily life. is also actually validated by the best. of the social sciences. and that there that there aren't these. two different realms of existence this.

kind of tawdry sublimatory one where we. make decisions about what neighborhoods. our family should live in and what's. what are good schools for the kids and. then this this higher more. uh the realm of the science. The world of data. Yeah, the world data that proves that. all those things you notice in your. daily life can't possibly be true. because that would be a stereotype.

And my view is no, it's all connected. There's just one reality out there. It. goes from your personal anecdotes to. what people might dismiss as anecdata to. the data. And it all tells pretty much. the same story. So. But why is it I mean I. we don't even need to get into COVID, but I just noticed from the very. beginning I never you know do you know. anyone who died of COVID? Do you know. anyone like actually know anyone? Have. you had dinner with anyone who later. died of COVID? Do you know anyone who. was injured by the vax? And I don't.

think I've ever met a single person who. didn't have the same answer I did. Whether that's reality or not, I still. don't know. But I do know there's been. such an effort to tell me that I'm crazy. for noticing that. Yeah, one one thing I used to do was go. through the list of uh on Wikipedia. prominent people who have died of COVID. and the thing I noticed about it was. that. they were almost all people who were.

no longer in their primes. um. that oh like I saw like oh baseball. pitcher Hall of Famer Tom Seaver has. died at age 74 of COVID. And then I I looked up a little more. about him and it's like well you know. he probably would have had another good. couple decades going to old-timers games. and stuff like that. But then it turned. out that he dropped out of public life. the year before because he had dementia.

and. Parkinson's and. Yeah just general he didn't have a good. life ahead of him. Um And so. I think that's one of the things that. was going on was that COVID was really. taking a toll among people who who would. passed their primes and were in toward. the last decade of their lives and. weren't no longer in the public eye.

And. uh so that's that that sort of helps. explain the thesis that yeah there was a. lot of COVID deaths the antithesis that. like you know it's not like anybody I. was like met I knew at work dropped dead. of COVID and then you get the synthesis. of like oh yeah it's it it mostly. uh. killed off people who were. uh. who were probably close to retirement. retired and in ill health from other.

things and so on. So what I think what's interesting is. the point of social science to to say. that there was a point was to. bring the principles of science to the. scientific method to bear on the world. just right around us and to make it. clear what we are actually seeing. Yeah. I think. Yeah. And but it seems like it's use at least. over the past several years has been to. do the opposite which is to obscure. what we're actually seeing living. experiencing and tell us a story that's. not true.

Yeah. Yeah. my imagination? No, it's I mean, the issue is that so. much data has piled up uh. that you can we can now answer quite a. few questions that were beyond our. capability beforehand. I mean, um. and the answers we keep getting are the. politic are generally politically. incorrect ones that were anticipated by. the bad people, the Charles Murrays and.

James Q. Wilsons in the 21st in the 20th. century. Um so, for example, we have an. enormous amount of data from DNA that. tells us about our racial ancestry. And what have we discovered in that in. in this century? Did the. the conventional wisdom that race does. not biologically exist be proven? No, of. course not. You can You can call up. ancestry.com or 23.

and me, and they'll tell you your race. to three three digits. Um. you know, they'll tell you. you know, if you're if you're Jewish, they'll tell you, you know, you're 49.8%. Ashkenazi. Uh other data's piling up. Uh there's a. Harvard economist named Raj Chetty who's. done phenomenal work talking government. bureaucracies into letting him work with. totally confidential data like.

like the tax returns of everybody in the. country. And so, he can do studies that nobody. ever had the chutzpah to dream before. that they'd ever get their hands on the. data. So, for example, he gets uh he he. tracked 21 million Americans across 30. years of their lives from he looked at. how much money their parents made in the. 1990s. and then he looked at things like were.

they in jail on census day January April. 1st 19 2010 when they were about 30. years old. And so then he could plot out what's. what are the odds. of. of. a man being in jail based on how poor or. rich his parents were and not. surprisingly a poor. guys who grew up poor go to jail a lot. more but. he could also answer using data from the.

Census Bureau what the race was of all. 21 million of these people and he. discovered yeah in general. blacks who had the exact same. income as whites growing up as kids in. the 90s. but on 2000 in 2010 were in jail three. to 10 times more often than whites who. were their exact peers in terms of. family income. And this. this is like wow I never expected.

somebody to be able to come up with that. and it goes yeah so when people wonder. why are blacks. in jail more often. is it. is it poverty and poverty plays a role. but even without poverty you take it all. away at the at the highest level blacks. at the at the highest percentile blacks. go to jail about 10 times as often as as. the richest whites. Uh so we're able to answer all sorts of.

social science questions these days but. nobody likes the answers they're. getting. Well it did seem like when we finally. unraveled the human genome. which was right around the time the Bell. Curve came out ish. Yeah. Um that's when the whole conversation. got shut down. Yeah. Maybe we had too much information. Yeah. Uh what. what happened. at a ceremony that Bill Clinton put on. in the presidential Rose Pa- uh Garden.

in 2000 for the Human Genome Project, uh. they just sort of made progress decoding. a single genome, which was mostly that. of entrepreneur Craig Venter, who helped out enormously. Uh and Craig got up and made a speech. that was exactly what the zeitgeist. wanted to hear. He said, "We've looked. at the human genome, or. his human genome, and we discovered.

the one thing you can't see in it is. race. There's no difference whatsoever. genetically between. different genomes. in terms of racial ancestry." Well, then. within three, four, five years, the. evidence was piling up. It was like, "No, actually, you can tell exactly uh. what the ancestry of people is." Became. a a sizable business very quickly. But.

as far as I can tell, a huge fraction of. the population. remembers hearing that the science has. proven that race doesn't exist. genetically, and they've never rethought it since. that 2000 uh speech by Venter standing. next to Bill Clinton. Um. so people people want to believe some. things. They want to believe that the. science has proven all of this this.

anti-racist. uh. dogmas that they get told, and they just. sort of ignore that now it's actually. moving the other direction, and it's. time that we it's time that we think. realistically about. you know, what the data is telling us. And you know, personally, I don't think. it's the end of the world by any means. It And I think we can I we can all get. along pretty well knowing knowing the. realities. But a lot of people are just terrified.

of them and and basically want to lie. about it. I mean, the way that previous. civilizations held together in the face. of knowledge of genetic and racial. differences, which are obviously real. But they weren't always at war with. themselves. And one of the ways they did. that was by believing in a religious. doctrine that said God created. everybody. Therefore, despite whatever. differences we have, we are all of equal. value. Yeah. Without that overlay, which we no longer. have, how do you keep a society together in.

the in the face of these realities? Yeah, I mean, the Democrats have been moving. toward the. you know, toward toward a a sort of Nazi. type solution of having a scapegoat. who's. who unites everybody else by being the. locus of evil, namely uh whites or, you. know, in the way the Democratic works,

it's it's all sorts of circles within. circles. So, you get more Pokémon points. for being non-white. You get diversity. points for being a woman. You get more. diversity points if you were born a man, etc., etc. Um. But yeah, unifying around a scapegoat. population, that does not have a good track record. What happens in the end? What happens in the end?

We don't know. Uh does does it get worse. or one One of the things we see. maybe over the last year is people just. objecting to it and pushing back and. laughing at the conventional wisdom and. scoffing at it and saying, you know, you. guys are just making this up. It's not. true. You're just saying it so you can. get DEI money and easy sinecure jobs.

And you know, we don't believe this. One thing ambitious people are doing and. you've written about this. is just denying being white. Yeah, and. the flight from white. What is that? Flight from white has a lot of different. dimensions. Um, it's people. it's it's. kids applying to college and remembering. their grandmother was uh, their Irish grandmother was born in.

Boyne, as Irish, before she went back to. Ireland. And. In Argentina, the whitest country in the. world. Yeah, and. It's so stupid. It but it's also happening at the the. government level, the census and so forth. For So, the. Biden administration just recently. announced that uh, they're allowing uh, Middle Easterners and North Africans to. no longer to have their own racial. category, M E N A, so that they don't.

have the. the unprofitable ignominious fate of of. having to check white or Caucasian. Uh, and this this has a long tradition in. the United States. If you go back to uh, in the 1970s, uh, South Asians were. classified as white, but that really. annoyed the South Asian businessmen they. because East Asian businessmen were.

getting all sorts of low interest loans. from the SBA as a minority. They were. getting uh. contracting preferences on government. deals. And the South Asians said, "Well, hey, we just got off the airplane. We should. be getting those deals, too.". And so the South Asian organizations got. themselves declared. to be Asian and grouped in with the with. the Orientals and formed the new Asian. group so they could get these these good.

deals from the government that white. people are not entitled to. And. so that was that was an early example of. flight from white. Um. You see it with um. the Hispanics increasingly um. Originally, when the Hispanic category. was created, it was set up so Hispanics. could get good deals from the government. and get good affirmative action. benefits, but without actually declaring. themselves to be racially white because.

a lot of them were kind of. took pride in their kind of they took. racist pride in their blue-blooded. Spanish heritage and so forth. Well, there's an awful lot of that in. Latin America. So they So they increased um. So they they could set up a separate. ethnicity for Hispanics so you could get. all the affirmative action benefits. without actually admitting your shame of. being white. But enough time has gone by. that you know.

only your. you know, your Fuentes types anymore are. like really publicly white racist from. Latin America. And and now it's more prestigious to. declare yourself, "Racially, I'm. Hispanic." Even though nobody's exactly. sure what that means. What What does it mean? I'm I'm. confused, too, because it. would that include Brazil, which is of. course a different language. It's not. right? And a different colonial.

power and but of course it's a. multi-racial country, heavily black. country as are as is Cuba, which is. Spanish speaking. I mean it's like I. don't understand what what does the word. mean? Uh yes, is is Brazil are Brazilians and. Portuguese included in Hispanics or are. they loose. Lusitanics? And. according to a book I read by David. Bernstein. categorized I believe it's called.

a law professor. He said that most of the federal. government will not give you a break on. federal contracting if you were if you. put down your Brazilian except the. Department of Transportation. They'll they'll give you racial. preferences for bidding on a highway. overpass or something like that if. you're Brazilian. They'll they'll include them in the. Hispanics. So. it's.

I mean we live we live in a society. that's increasingly mixed in terms of. ancestry. So we have more and more. people coming out who are a quarter this. and a quarter that. And there's lots of money on the table. And as as long as you're not as long as. you don't declare yourself white, you've. got all sorts of opportunities to to get. freebies. how long this can go on though before it. just blows up the country. I mean is. there any chance of getting back. to an.

a race blind posture officially by the. by the federal government. I mean you. can have whatever opinions you want on. race. I mean. But the government which represents. everybody has to treat American citizens. equally as citizens. Is there any hope. for that? I mean the Supreme Court nominally. outlawed affirmative action in colleges. like because Harvard was clearly clearly. discriminating against Asians. Um. on the other hand. they left huge loopholes like, "Oh,

well, yeah, you can write about your. race in your essay." And uh you know, the admissions department can then go, "Oh, this kid is you know, black, so. we'll give him you know, 50 extra. Pokémon points on his application.". Um I mean, the. one issue is that the that Asian. students are pulling away so fast from. everybody else in terms of things like. SAT scores.

that the uh. the Asian-black. uh gaps are opening up so widely. that. if you go to total colorblind college. admissions at the high end, you end up. with. a campus with very very few blacks. qualifying to get in and a huge number. of Asians. And places like Harvard. really worry about whether they might. turn out like Yogi Berra's former.

favorite restaurant that got so popular. that nobody goes there anymore. So, if. if Harvard becomes 56% Asian, are are. Asians going to consider Harvard cool? Or do Asians want to go to places that. there's a lot of white white people. there? Uh. you know, nobody really knows and. uh. you know, what I don't what I don't know. is whether the the Asian. uh. rise the rise in Asian SAT scores is.

completely legitimate and they just. really have been getting so much smarter. than everybody else in the. 21st century that Asian test scores are. pulling away from the field like. Secretariat in the 1973 Belmont or. you know, or. there be other reasons? Yeah, could could it be I mean we know. there's a lot of cheating in Asia itself. on the SAT. Um we know. people bring their bad habits when they.

come here, do you? Yeah, I mean I mean nobody can possibly. communicate across the Pacific Ocean. It's thousands of miles wide. How could. anybody text message what was on the. test? Um or you know, just the the. enormous amount of tiger mother. uh prep that Asians brought with them. from their. 2,000-year-old tradition of taking tests. to become mandarins and and doing. enormous amounts of test prep for years.

Or is it is it. Or. there's possible technical reasons that. the the people making the SAT have been. criticized for one thing or another for. discriminating against blacks and. Latinos, so they keep doing things like. let's get rid of analogies and that'll. be fairer, but it it winds up just. benefiting the Asians most of all. Why? Oh. It it was more of a the when they had.

analogies, it was it was harder to. memorize apparently and test prep didn't. work as well. It took a certain amount. of creativity and kind of the insight in. the brain. and. uh. but the University of California. demanded getting rid of. analogies about 20 years ago, so the. college board said, "Yeah, sure, you're. our biggest customer. We'll do what you. want." And then things just sort of got. worse after that and.

But but there has been a noticeable. rise, relative rise in Asian SAT. Yes, huge. Huge? Since since the year 2000. And. I think basically. we should have, you know, blue ribbon. commission to look into like what's. going on exactly with the SAT. Um. you know, I mean that's that's one. reason. uh. that when COVID came Yeah, go ahead. getting rid of the SAT requirement? Is. that real or is it they Yeah, definitely.

all happened during COVID and the racial. reckoning. Yeah, definitely all happened during. COVID and the racial reckoning at once. all the colleges went well, they had to. they had to cancel some some SAT tests. because they had to be 6 ft apart and. they couldn't fit in the classroom etc. Uh and then then they all decided that. due to the racial reckoning that they. weren't going to take SATs and in fact. they're going to make it go totally test.

optional. And the University of California went. further. They banned the. applicants from submitting any kind of. test score. Mhm. And. then what happened was that the colleges. started noticing like wow, these kids. who are showing up that we let in, they're not very bright. They are not. going to become computer science. graduates of MIT. So MIT was the first. one that went. uh this was stupid. We're going back to.

demanding. uh. standardized tests and now Harvard's. jumped on board. Everybody except the. University of California at the elite. level is moving in that direction uh. because it it was. So it is it is a measure of aptitude. actually. Yeah, and it yeah, it's it's a very good. measure of aptitude. It tells. you know, GPA high school GPA is a great. measure but it's hard to compare. schools. Some schools are hard in grade. some are easy. Um.

having having this. uh having a test and having high school. grades, you can put them together and. they work pretty well. Uh but because. because of the racial gaps that have. been around forever in these things, uh. it was decided during the racial. reckoning that what LAT absolutely. proves is, as Ibram X. Kendi has. demonstrated by scientific logic, that. um. the only reason. so some races might be doing better than.

other races is because of. the evil of whiteness. But of course, what it turns out is the. Asians are doing much, much better. And. Because of the evil of whiteness? Uh. because nobody really knows because. nobody's that interested in studying it. because it sounds like the kind of thing. you could get canceled for finding out. And um. just in general, we have a lot of. problems that have been swept under the. rug in, you know, recent years because.

they don't fit within the ideologies, uh the the woke ideologies. Um. and just to to to think about them is. kind of dangerous sounding. When the planes start crashing, Yeah. will people start thinking about them? I I hope so. I mean, my my father worked. for Lockheed from the late '30s to the. 1980s. And when one when a his planes crashed, uh. he'd. spend two months on the site because.

when a plane hits the ground, it spreads. out over a mile or so, picking up all. the pieces. of the plane so they could reassemble it. and as a jigsaw puzzle and figure out. why it crashed. And also picking up. pieces of the pilots and the passengers. and so forth. And over, you know, the last 100 years, people who. were picked because they were smart and. hard working have done a whole lot of. good at.

getting airplanes so they don't crash. very much anymore. Now, Boeing may be working on reversing. a lot of that history, but. uh. yeah, I you know, we we got a lot better. at things by having systems to find. people who are competent. and work hard, and now the zeitgeist in. the 21st century has been moving away. from that. Uh will we see a lot of.

planes crashing? God, I hope not, but you know, we we. need to to. we need to to make a 180° U-turn in. terms of what we value, whether it's. competence or diversity. And you know, lately diversity's been winning, and. that's going to get people killed. Is there a point I mean, I'm I'm asking. these questions because South Africa, you know, tried this, and the country is. just continuously degraded for well, 30. years this year. At to the point where there's no.

electricity in parts at times, and the. murder rate is, you know, one among the. highest in the world, and the rape rate. is the highest in the world, and. but there's no deceleration that I can. tell from afar, thousands of miles away, but I'm watching, and it's like, no, there's no second guessing, it's just. like going to ride it right back to the. Stone Age, pretend it was never an advanced. society. In our country, which is. different from South Africa in a lot of. ways, will there be a point like when. the planes do crash, and the air traffic controllers are just.

high, or too dumb, or distracted, don't. care, uh to keep the planes from crashing, will there be a public demand like, no, no, no, let's just hire by ability from. now on? Well, what we've seen is um. what what we saw with what we talked. about earlier, um. homicides and car crashes, huge. increases, and And seen some pushback. against that, but you know, the.

establishment doesn't really want to. talk about why that happened. uh because. uh it's embarrassing for them. On the. other hand, the the airplanes, you know, important people fly a lot. more than unimportant people do. And that's one reason we have like. pretty strict rules about who can be a a. pilot. There was a plane crash in 2009. Uh congressmen take a lot of flights to. get back to their home district.

The one in Buffalo? Yeah. So, they immediately passed some. laws that made it uh. made it harder to become a pilot and. uh. there hasn't been a fatal plane crash in. American airliner. since then. And, you know, some of it is. we just we got really good pilots these. days. Part of it because congressmen. worry about stuff like that. Um now, are. we.

you know, but on the other hand, the the. Obama administration came along and. basically sabotaged the system for. hiring. air traffic controllers and. Congress had set up a pretty good system. for finding. good people in the '90s, but yeah, it turned out to be that it's. like white men really like air tra- They. really like airplanes. It's like, you. know, what is what is a What have white.

men ever done with airplanes since the. Wright brothers? Um. so, there there were too many whites, so. the Obama administration came up with a. totally absurd corrupt test for to hire. more black guys. And. so, what happens is then. you get fewer people still make it make. it through the training. So, the. training has been kept pretty. legitimate. So, you flunk out more. people, which then means that. you're you're under the number of air.

traffic controllers you expected, so you. you're making them them work really long. hours and they're getting more and more. tired on the job and they're making. mistakes and stuff like that. And it tracks back to the Obama. administration's DEI program for. for air traffic controllers. Um. can we avoid that? Yeah, we we can. We just got to talk. about it. And we just can't just shut down. discussion by saying, "Are you saying.

that you know, the stereotype that on. average blacks wouldn't make as good air. traffic controllers as whites?" And the. answer is, "Yeah, yeah, I'm saying that. So, you expect to have a fewer. percentage passing the test.". And we can live with it. We we live with. it every day in sports that there are. racial differences in performance on. average, and nobody cares that much. And. you know, God bless them.

We love sports. So, yeah, there are. there is hope for the country that we. can go back and have a philosophy for. you know, for things like jet travel. that were we we consider it as important. as the NFL and therefore we can't have, you know, racial quotas getting in the. way. That doesn't seem out of outlandish. No, it doesn't. Um so, last question. that and I. sort of began with this, but maybe. you've.

I I just want to push a little more. Why. do you think. that you're able to have these. conversations and when you travel the. country talking about your book, you're. not attacked and. you know, speaking of good signs, do you take that as a good sign that the. country's becoming more open. Well, yeah, somebody suggested to me, it's like Well, Steve, you're in you're. in the best possible position. It's the. fourth year of a democratic president.

Everybody's sick of Biden. But, if Trump gets elected, then. there'll be an enormous effort on the. part of the establishment to crack down. on. you know, honest dissident voices that. lead to horrible outcomes like Trump. getting reelected. And if. if Biden wins, then they'll go, "Oh, we've got four more years.

Uh and we we really got to change things. so we never let Trump win. Uh Trump's type people win again." So, it it could be. a short-term thaw. Or it could be that enough people. have noticed. uh. and have been empowered by changes like. Elon Musk opening up Twitter so that, you know, I I can have 125,000 followers.

Uh just, you know, the the cumulation of. little changes like that that, you know, the these ideas that I've been. propounding for 30 years and have people. out there going, "Yeah, that's Sailor's. ideas. They make sense. He's like the. most reasonable guy in America.". Um. maybe, you know, we've gone through a. watershed and we're beyond the mania of. the racial reckoning and the great.

awakening. Uh. Knock on wood, I hope so. Or. Or. this period 10 years from now is. described as the Dark Ages where Steve. Sailer was actually in public. Yeah, I mean. Face uncovered. I mean, what do you think? I mean, all right, let me ask you. Why why me in particular. that I that I became sort of the Lord. Voldemort whose name cannot be cannot be.

mentioned when. I'm just. you know, this kind of to my mind is. very kind of public. spirited benevolent. guy who can see both sides of various. problems. Well, I've always thought that um. I've always thought that you were. particularly threatening because you're. so obviously moderate by temperament. You're just clearly not a hater. You can. smell that on people instantly. You're very reasonable and you use the.

language. that the left would like to keep for. itself, like of science, of reason, of. data. Yeah. And and you actually argue from that. basis. and they'd like a monopoly on that. And so there's something really. threatening about a guy who's like, "No, actually no, here are the numbers.". and doesn't raise his voice. That's. way more threatening than some guy who's. jumping up and down on cable news or,

you know, sending crazy tweets all day. long. That person is, you know, his. potential audience is much smaller than. yours. Your potential audience is like, you know, sort of any open-minded person. who'd like to solve a problem. That's always been my thought. Yeah, yeah. I hope so. But. yeah, I'm. um yeah, it's it's it's been, you know, a long strange trip, uh but. uh. Did it bother you when they called you a. Nazi or white supremacist or. when they threw these slurs at you for.

so long? Yeah, I mean. I didn't. it it seemed ridiculous, uh but I. it it also didn't seem like. I it also seemed like what they want to. do is get you into. a position where it's like, "Oh, I'm not. one of those horrible people. Here's these six guys are the really. horrible people." And and get me to. condemn people who.

uh. you know, get to drive them out of. publicity. Uh you know, it's kind of the. way um you know, you hear. uh liberals talk about, "Well, the great. thing about William F. Buckley was he he. cracked down on Pat Buchanan.". All right. And I. I never met Mr. Buckley. Uh you know, I worked for National. Review. I wrote for National Review in. the '90s. Uh but I did I did meet Mr. Buchanan and.

you know, Pat was a great guy. I mean. I mean, one of my last memories of my. father before he died at 95 was. uh Pat sent me one of his new books and. he'd gone through and put Post-it notes. on every page where he quoted me or. made reference to some concept of mine. So, I showed it to my dad and he read. it. Uh he looked through it all the. things that Pat had with his own hand.

that had said all the nice things he'd. said about me and I was like, "Wow, you're that's just great." And you know, that was like the last thing or last. interaction before he died and I I thank. Pat Buchanan for it. And a lot of people. have good stories about Pat Buchanan. What a What a nice man. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, it it I I guess it could. kind of go either way. It depends on. who's writing the history. I mean, I'd. bet I'd bet money.

that um you know, Pat Buchanan is. described in 50 years when there's not a. a single living person who actually knew. him. Um, you know, as some sort of monster or. hater or something like that. Wouldn't. you think? Yeah. I mean, I mean, they say history's written. written by the winners. Uh, my. impression is more history's written by. historians who got paid by one side or. the other, not necessarily the winners, to write the history. So, you know, for. 100 years after the Civil War in the.

United States, the South, which was mostly pretty. broke, but they could still scrape. together enough money to pay historians. to write. uh, the story of the lost cause. And uh, some most of our history books were were. kind of biased in favor of the South. Um, you know, what's how we're going to. remember, you know, our time, I don't know. Um, but uh, you know, it it could go it it.

could change very much. And, you know, maybe maybe we'll have different heroes. all of a sudden. You know, that's that's. maybe you and you and me will look come. out looking pretty good in this. I have trouble believing that. But I I. admire you. Well, me too, but. Steve Sailer, thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Tucker. Thanks. Thanks for watching our YouTube channel. We hope you'll subscribe to it. And by. the way, you can hit the little bell on.

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