SSRIs and School Shootings, FDA Corruption, and Why Everyone on Anti-Depressants Is Totally Unhappy

I think this is one of those topics that um if  people understood the the scale of the problem. and the severity that we would be talking about  this every day along with you know immigration and. foreign policy uh this is in my view one of the  one of the most important things going on right. now. Give us a sense of how widespread the use  let's just start with SSRIs anti-depressants. Um. how widespread is their use in the United  States? about 14% of the population total.

population of the total population is currently  taking an anti-depressant medication currently. currently. Yes. Yeah. And that was that's  actually as of 2014 the numbers have gone up. uh since co so I would say it's probably between  15 to 20% of the population is currently on those. drugs are taking anti-depressants on a  daily basis. [Music] [Applause] [Music].

[Music] [Applause] [Music]. So that's I mean compared to my childhood or even  25 years ago that's a massive increase. It's an. enormous increase. It's it's likely you know last  statistics I looked at I think it's about a 500%. increase from where things were in the '90s in the  early '90s. Has America's collective mental health.

improved? No. there's actually more suicides,  there's more disability from mental health. uh problems and teen suicide is higher as well.  Okay. So, if there's been a 500% thereabouts. increase in the use of these drugs, but more  people are killing themselves and the drugs are. prescribed in order to make you not kill yourself,  then that suggests that like we're getting the. opposite of the intended effect. Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah. Big time. um where, you know, there's more.

psychiatric prescribers now. There's more drug,  you know, drug prescribing and the outcomes are. actually getting worse. It's what we're doing is  not working on a national level. I'm just going to. skip ahead to my opinion, then I'm going to pull  back, but that suggests that we should ban the. drugs and imprison the people selling them. That's  my personal view. Um but I'll, you know, you're. the psychiatrist. Um so what effect and I will try  to reduce my emotional outburst just to that um.

but it is it's it's so shocking uh when you know  the details um where do these drugs come from what. are they exactly what is an SSRI who invented them  what do they do so I mean SSRIs are uh kind of the. latest iteration of anti depressants. They've been  out since the ' 50s, but Prozac really changed. history when when it came out in 1987. So, this  is was a drug that was designed to um modulate.

the serotonin system. This is by uh blocking  serotonin re-uptake. And so, what that does is. it increases the amount of serotonin between the  neurons and it actually has a drug effect. It it. will make people numb or emotionally constricted.  And so that's that's how those drugs are working. I was I remember the roll out for Prozac. Um I  think it was on the cover of Time or Newsweek or.

one of the then popular Newsweekly in the United  States and it was hailed as a wonder drug that. was going to fix America's psychiatric problems.  Mhm. Um and it didn't. But it was also described. as a drug that helped, as I recall, that helped  regulate, and I'm quoting, chemical imbalances. in the brain. It was not described as something  that would numb you. Mhm. Yeah. It's uh it's it's.

essentially just a a story that was sold the the  chemical imbalance myth was a story that was sold. to doctors and patients to make them feel better  about taking drugs uh for their mood. Because I. think intuitively many people, you know, when you  say, "Hey, you know, I'm unhappy. I'm anxious. I'm. depressed." If you went to that person and said,  "Hey, do you want to take a drug that's going to. mask those symptoms?" Intuitively, people would  say, "No, you know, I' I'd rather get to the root. cause of that, you know, sweeping things under the  rug usually doesn't work that well." Yes. Um but.

when you craft a narrative about these drugs uh  fixing a chemical imbalance like say like a type 1. diabetic who doesn't have enough insulin, you give  them insulin and it kind of sort of like a magic. bullet kind of injects itself like right into  that, you know, pathological process and fixes it. That's kind of a different message. The message  to the person is that your brain is defective. there's something wrong with it and we're going  to give you this chemical to bring things up to.

normal. Yes, that's a lot easier for someone  to to say, well, actually, I need my medicine. uh because I'm broken. But there's but that was  essentially a lie. The the idea that these drugs, you know, fixed a chemical imbalance simply  came from observations that when you give people. serotonin drugs, um they they can become calmer,  they can look less depressed. And so rather than. the obvious explanation being, okay, this is a  drug effect that we're seeing, you know, they are.

drugged and that's what we're looking at, people  said, well, maybe they just had low serotonin and. now they're looking better because we've fixed  this chemical imbalance. And so that message. has just been grabbed by pharmaceutical industry  and, you know, psychiatrists to to essentially. lull people into this state where they feel more  comfortable taking them. It changed among other. things the practice of psychiatry completely and I  remember this just cuz I grew up in an afflin area.

where people use psychiatrists um not in my family  but everyone else's family and the um the idea it. was Freudian psychiatry and the idea was we are  going to treat the root causes now you would ever. think of Freudian psychiatry or Freud or whatever  but you know you'd sit on a couch and talk about. your childhood like that would by addressing  the root cause of your problems you would make. it better. That was the promise of it, whether it  worked or not. And then it felt like in one day,

right around the time Prozac came out, Freud was  being denounced everywhere as a sexist. Mhm. And. Freudian psychiatry became not just sort of P,  but like affirmatively unpopular. Mhm. And the. role of psychiatrist was to dispense these drugs.  That from an outsers's perspective, that's that's. what I noticed at the time. That is what happened.  Um, and I think what um, what was going on was all. of a sudden you had a billion dollar war chest of  marketing spend that was trying to seize control.

of the narrative about medications. And so, I  mean, Prozac was like a blockbuster. Some people. may not remember this, but that was the drug that  made Eli Liy a billion-doll company. I mean, it. was a small company before then. And so at every  single level there was an incentive to change how. people thought about distress. You know, no longer  was depression and anxiety a complex thing where.

you know there could be uh relationship issues  and and problems at work and you know problems. in your childhood. All of that stuff was um  now it was almost bigoted in a way to to talk. about depression and anxiety as if it had these  these intuitive social and societal like causes. It was now a medical condition. And if you were  going to say that it wasn't a medical condition, you weren't taking it seriously and you were  stigmatizing people. So, um, drug companies,

they would platform, uh, I guess through their  influence with the universities and and and. the media, they were able to push out this this  narrative. And so, they could shoot down Freudian. analysis and therapy. Um, and so the message  essentially came out that was this is a chemical. imbalance. These are medical conditions, and if  you say anything otherwise, you're stigmatizing. the mentally ill. But couldn't I mean it doesn't  that's obviously what happened. I saw it happen.

But doesn't really make internal sense. Like  you could you could say you know I think you're. depressed because all your relationships are  dysfunctional or your parents are horrible or. whatever or you're failing at work. Those are  all common causes of sadness for sure. Without. dismissing or stigmatizing the person or his  problems like you are taking it seriously. They're just trying to find the actual cause of  the problems, right? I mean, absolutely. I mean,

I I think I think to logical people that makes  sense, but the way that played out in the in. public spaces and in medical schools was that  that was actually a very backwards and kind of, you know, dismissive thing to, you know,  people would say things like, you know, depression just isn't normal sadness. You know,  it's a serious biological problem. And so to. suggest that um you know this is just some you  know life issues going on, relationship issues, you were kind of branded as someone who really  you just didn't get it. You didn't understand.

you know the medical underpinnings of this um new  disease that was gripping the country and kind of. evolving and making people suffer. So privacy is  the basis of freedom. No privacy, no freedom. So. with that in mind, we'd like to introduce you  to ExpressVPN, a company we've talked about a. lot. It's an app that does a very simple and  essential thing for you and your family. It. reroutes 100% of everything you do online through  secure encrypted servers. And that means that data.

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We use it here on the show. We cannot recommend  it enough. You get four extra months free when. you use the link. Just scan the QR code on your  screen right now or go to expressvpn.com/ducker. ExpressVPN.com/tucker. to get the special offer redeemed. Did the people  making these claims understand the medical basis. of this illness they were describing? Uh, no. I  mean, I mean that's the irony, right? So, so for.

example, they say it's a chemical imbalance.  Did anyone ever describe what balance is? Um, so I mean the thing this is like a white lie  that people sort of rationalize to themselves. They because you know people have looked at the  chemical imbalance and there is a clear way to. do it. You can um you can look at the brains of  depressed people on autopsy and you can actually. you know look at receptor levels and say you  know is there any changes in the receptors. You.

can stick needles into people's spine and you  can draw out uh fluid and you can look at the. metabolites of things like serotonin and you can  get depressed people and undepressed people and. say is there any difference in the actual amount  of serotonin floating around in the brain. Every. time they've done this they have not found that  there is any difference between depressed and. undepressed people. But there's no difference.  There is no difference. Um because that's why we.

don't use any biological markers in the diagnosis  of any psychiatric conditions. No brain scans, no blood tests. We can do all of those things.  They are not useful because there are no ways, you know, like actual biological ways to  differentiate depressed people from undepressed. people. Are you serious? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay.  So, well, that's not a white lie then. That's like. a massive whopper. If you're telling me there's a  biological basis for anything, but you can't show.

it, then you're lying. Yeah. Or guessing at best.  And the way they justify it was, well, okay, so we. haven't found it yet, but um it must be a medical  problem and we're eventually going to find it. And rather than admitting that, in the meantime,  we'll just tell people it's a chemical imbalance. because it's an easy it's it's just an easy kind  of like metaphor for them to understand. and it. helps us dish out the drugs without people asking  too many questions. But it's untrue. Therefore,

physicians should not say that or they should  lose their medical license. They shouldn't. they shouldn't have been saying it. Um but I  thought I mean like strict adherence to reality, honesty. I thought that was like a prerequisite  for practicing medicine, getting a license. Yeah. Well, what's happened in um you know in the space  of psychiatry is almost like our field has become.

so overrun with pharmaceutical uh propaganda  that it's not really an issue of truth in a lot. of places. It's like a moral issue. Doctors feel  the need to almost encourage people to take these. medications and cheerlead them onto it. It has  been sort of cast as a as a issue where it's like, you know, people these medications are heavily  stigmatized. You know, there's a bunch of like. rednecks running around telling people to pull  themselves up by their bootstraps. You know,

you know that that's like the boogeyman that's  cast out there. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, that that people are like, you know,  there's that there are rednecks out there. Yeah. There are rednecks out there stigmatizing  the mentally ill, saying, you know, you know, your suffering isn't real. And so we need to um  you know we need to kind of pedal this narrative. about there being a chemical imbalance and  encourage people to take these medications. because mean society out there is telling people  to just sit there and suffer in silence and to.

not take the drugs. And so doctors see it as like  almost a this is what medical school was like for. me in residency. It's like you don't question the  drugs, don't question the side effects. you need. to encourage you need to encourage people to take  them. So it's it's hinged away from truth and it. has become more of this this moral issue that at  least that's how sounds like a religion. Yeah. I mean that's what that's what decades of drug  company propaganda has done to kind of shape the. narrative about how doctors and patients in the  media view this issue. So you go to med school,

you decide to become a psychiatrist. Um  you spent, you know, go to residency, all stuff. Did anybody during the whole course  of that program note that as the prescription. rate for these drugs has risen, so is the suicide  rate? No. No, not at all. Yeah. They don't they. don't notice that. They don't bring that up um  at all. Isn't the whole like point of medicine.

noticing the connection between behavior and  outcome? Yeah. Yeah. People who smoke a ton. of unfiltered cigarettes get a higher rate of lung  cancer than those who don't. So that's like that's. why we know smoking's bad. Yeah. You know, you  you you just get a a version where it's like yes, you know, mental health is getting worse, but  instead of them saying, well, it it's because our. treatments don't work, what they will say is that  um you know, the depression is rising. This is a. serious medical condition. You know, it's it's  occurring more and more. And us and our drugs,

we are stemming the tide. if if not for us doing  this, this would be overflowing and getting out of. control. And so rather than actually reflecting  on the fact that things aren't getting better, they are just saying that, you know, this  depression, you know, which didn't really happen. that much before, it's just happening more and  more and more. And so that's how they justify the. worst. I I get it. I mean, they they're children  obviously. It's just you're freaking me out here. because these are like just kind of basic logical  questions. Mhm. And the first one is if depression.

is rising and it it sounds like it is, why why is  this happening? Yeah. Does anyone ever ask that? Did you hear anyone ask that? I you know  I and people do ask this question and I. think it's you know it's it's it's multi  and it's multiffactorial. I, you know, from my vantage point, depression is rising  because our treatments don't work and they.

may actually make people worse. But then there's  also very legitimate things going on in society. that makes depression rise. You know, housing is  unaffordable. There there are real things going. on that are also making people societyy's getting  crappier and more dysfunctional. That makes people. sad. I get it. Mhm. But I it just seems like if  you're treating an illness, the first question. you would ask is like, where did this illness come  from? Yeah. Yeah. No, you would be shocked if you.

could be a fly on the wall in what happens during  like psychiatric interviews because this is this. is what happened. Uh this is what I observed. I  so I came out of medical school really excited to. do psychiatry, you know. I like I'm going to help  people with depression and anxiety. I've always. been someone who's been really interested  in self-help and you know philosophy. Yes. And then I get started and during my internship  what I see is that we spend we spend hardly any.

time actually understanding our patients. The the  interaction is extremely transactional. You might. spend 40 minutes during an intake with someone  um but you're hardly going to understand their. relationships. you're hardly going to understand  their work life. There's very limited time to. to know what's going on with them healthwise and  whether they're using any substances. The visit,

it's almost like a checklist. And and what I was  witnessing is we weren't spending any time really. trying to actually understand the people and and  their lives. And we would just default to using. medications because it was really quick. And the  way we justify doing this is that we have this. book. It's called the DSM and you can diagnose  people essentially off a checklist. You know, if you have five out of nine symptoms, you  can say that person is depressed. And so you. just ask them what symptoms they have. You  don't have to understand the complexity of.

their life. And then you say, "Okay, you've  got major depressive disorder and we've got. this FDA approved treatment over here. We  have this drug that's safe and effective.". And it allows you to be kind of like medically  justified in having these very transactional. visits and just like putting people on meds  and it just churns them through the system. Um, and so doesn't sound like there's a lot of  concern for the patient. Well, the way it's the.

way doctors are trained nowadays is to view these  issues as medical issues. So, so why be concerned. about their life if the person is just suffering  from a brain illness and you've just diagnosed it. with this checklist of symptoms and there's an FDA  approved treatment. You think that you are caring. for the person and doing the justified thing. But  what does it say about the way these physicians. feel about human beings if they sincerely believe  that something as complex as a human emotion has a.

purely organic origin that they can't define? By  the way, I mean, none of this makes any sense at. all. Yeah. If there's no difference between the  brain of a depressed person and a happy person, then you you can't really say there's a there  there's a known biological cause for depression. Like, you just can't say that because you can't  show it. But but even bigger picture like just. being a human being, you know that all of this is  just wildly complex and there are libraries full.

of novels written about, you know, human emotions,  human experience, relationships. It's like if. you've gotten to a place where you're just like,  well, you you need an adjustment of your seroton. serotonin levels, you're not treating people like  human beings, right? No. Yeah. I mean, you have. a very reductionalistic view of of of people  of people. Yeah. And um I think it's very sad. um and scary and scary that the people, you know,  the experts who lead the mental health teams,

the psychiatrists, and that they that they  have such little care and appreciation for. those issues. It It's very scary. I It feels sad  to me. So, here's a company we're always excited. to advertise because we actually use their  products every day. It's Merryweather Farms. Remember when everybody knew their neighborhood  butcher? You look back and you feel like, "Oh, there was something really important about that."  Knowing the person who cut your meat. And at some. point, your grandparents knew the people  who raised their meat so they could trust.

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So, tell us like, okay, so you're excited  to become a shrink, a psychiatrist. Mhm. Um, sounds like for all the right reasons. You want  to make people better, happier, more fulfilled, add purpose, all the good things. And then  you wind up on this podcast with a totally. different view uh of how your profession is  helping or not. How did you get there? Well,

what I what I started to notice in my intern  year was that it just it does not work. And I mean this is the heart of it. You put people  on these medications without understanding why. they're unhappy, you know? And so so firstly,  it's like how could you expect to fix someone. if you don't understand why they're unhappy?  Exactly. And then so putting that issue aside, like maybe we're just okay with like drugging  people, you know, that they have unhappy,

you know, they're unhappy and we put them  on medications. Maybe that's okay. Although. I don't agree with that. Um the drugs,  they just wear off over time. You know, you put some you put someone on five of Lexapro,  you know, a starting dose. 6 months later, the effect has usually worn off and they need  a higher dose. You know, 12 months after that, they need a higher dose. And eventually, they're  maxed out on it. And the person will say to you, I don't even know what this drug is doing anymore.  Um, or it's hardly doing anything. And so, at.

that point, they ended up getting put on more and  more medications. And eventually you have people. on five meds and and the drugs aren't really  working. And so I would see this pattern where, you know, you put someone on a drug, you  get this honeymoon period where, you know, and and and they work. You know, this this isn't  a placebo thing. Like these these drugs, they they. turn down your emotional range. They are numbing.  And if you're someone who's seriously anxious, you. will experience that as therapeutic, maybe even  life-saving, instant relief. Yeah. Well, sometimes.

a couple of weeks, but practically instant. Well,  in for bzzoiaspines, it's like instant roll. Yeah, for benzo instant. For SSRI, usually a couple  weeks. And so people, you know, they'll get this. experience where they say, you know, this drug has  saved my life. You know, that I'm more functional. Yeah. During the honeymoon period where where  your body hasn't adapted to it because our bodies, they just adapt to the drugs over time. And so  I would just see them wear off and the people.

would start accumulating more and more drugs  and then they would get slowly sicker. Um, and I'm thinking to myself, sicker by which you  mean what? Like mentally sicker that, you know, more fatigued, more brain fog, more depression and  anxiety over time. And I saw that a lot. Lots of. my patients were not getting better um on on these  regimens. And so I would talk to my attendings and. I would say,"Well, this doesn't really seem like a  sustainable way to help people, you know, putting.

them on drugs that they that essentially wear off  over time and they end up sort of stuck on and and. and they look worse." And they would tell me, you  know, "Don't worry, Yseph. These drugs are safe. and effective. You know, they're they're approved  by the FDA." Do they actually use the phrase safe. and effective? Yeah. Yeah. They actually use that  phrase. They use that phrase. Exactly. These are. safe and effective. that they are approved by  the FDA. Nothing to see here. Don't worry about. it. Why would you why would you be concerned  about this? The authorities have spoken. Um,

are these actual doctors? Yeah, these are these  are professors. They look at you in the face and. say, "Don't worry, Yseph. They're safe. They're  safe and effective." Yeah. Yeah. Just freaking. me out. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I think I'm 26 at  the time, but this does not sit right with me. And I get And so, I decide that um, you know,  who who am I? Yeah. I I don't understand this. research. I'm going to become an expert in it. And  so after residency, I go and I work for um Jansen, which is the pharmaceutical arm of Johnson  and Johnson. And I get involved in clinical.

development there doing a fellowship so I could  see how the pharmaceutical companies develop the. drugs. I stay there for a year and then eventually  I go to the FDA and I become a medical officer in. the division of psychiatry where I'm overseeing  the safety of the drugs on the US market. And it was by going through that experience and  actually seeing how these drugs were developed. over time that I realized that we are practicing  so far outside of what the evidence shows like.

in an insane way. Like outside of science.  Outside of science. Yeah. Like the like the. like the whole idea that it makes sense to put  someone on an SSRI for years at a time is not. supported by the clinical research at all. It's  a complete like guinea pig uh like you know it's. it's an it's an experiment. It's an experiment  happening on a mass scale. Millions and millions. of people. Millions and millions of people. Yeah.  So you know I said before you know about probably.

between I mean let's just call it 20% you know 15  to 20% of people are on these medications. Half of. the people that use anti-depressants are on them  for over 5 years. And so, you know, maybe seven, you know, 7 to 10% of Americans are essentially on  an experiment um where there's no clinical trial. evidence that says that these drugs are safe.  You know, that the scary thing is, you know, when when my doctors used to say to me, these drug  these these medications are safe and effective,

the thing that they would leave out was for the  12 weeks that they were studied in the clinical. trial. That's like and then when you look at the  research, there has never been a um a randomized. control trial that has gone that has looked at  this over 12 months. And 12 months. But you said. there are millions, tens of millions of people on  this for years. Yeah. Taken them for years. And. it is and and this is just insane because anyone  who has their eyes open will see that these drugs.

clearly wear off over time. I mean, that's why  you have to keep on going up on the dose. And. so it would be really important to actually see  how effective these drugs are over time. Well, why wouldn't they? They have the the sample.  It's right here. It's in America. There's a lot. of people to choose from. Yeah. Uh they don't do  it. Um and and a lot of this happens just because. of precedent. And and there's a complete lack of  backbone and leadership at the FDA to actually.

um improve the way these drugs What was it like?  You spent a year at the FDA. What was that like? Yeah, it was really concerning to be honest. Yeah.  Um, when was that? Uh, 2020, 2019 to 2020. Yeah. Why was it concerning? So, so FDA receives a lot  of funding from the pharmaceutical industry. Um, and I'll talk about a few things uh here. Um, so  I've always been interested in drug safety. That's.

actually what I do now. you know, I help people  come off meds after they've had side effects. So, that's always been my my interest. One of the  issues is when because the agency is funded by. the pharmaceutical industry through PDUFA, this  is a congressional like, you know, law. Uh I. think they have like 70% funding. What it does is  it tilts the agency towards certain activities. So when pharma hands over money to to the agency,  they say, "We're going to give you this money, but.

every time we give you an application for a drug,  you need to review it within 9 months because, you know, our patents are going to expire, and so  you need to get it done in 9 months. Every time. there's a protocol that comes in, you need to look  at it within 30 days." There's nothing, I think, on face, you know, that bad about it. Hey, it  makes sense. There's commercial interest here and. they want to get something. But what it actually  does at the reviewer level is that all of our. resources go towards drug development activities.  And so we're reviewing protocols for the drug.

companies rather than following up on safety  issues. So there could be something like, you. know, PSSD, which I' I'd like to talk about later  on. It's a serious sexual dysfunction problem, or all these different side effects going on that  need that need reports and that need attention. from medical reviewers. Those were all just put  on the back burner. they were neglected because. the way success in our division was measured  was whether was that we were just getting these.

things you know these activities done on time  and so there was much more of an emphasis on. drug development activities. Now, the other thing  that was really disturbing about being at the FDA, um, it it's not so much the agency, but it it  it it kind of speaks to academic psychiatry as. a whole. Now, you know, as I mentioned before,  many I I think we're almost brainwashed when.

we go through our training to internalize  these beliefs. you know, you know that these. psychiatric conditions they kind of morph and  they evolve and they can get worse. You know, criticize the medications is to be morally  bad and to be stigmatizing the mentally ill. and scaring people away from medications. Lots of  academics, they end up working at the FDA. That's. just a natural progression for them. And many  of the people there had those beliefs. And so. I didn't actually when I looked at um the a lot  of the colleagues that I was working with there,

they were so hesitant to call out problems with  medications. Um I think the the cyn the really. cynical side of me says, "Oh, maybe there was  like a laziness component because if you identify. a problem, you kind of have to deal with it. You  have to do a report." But I actually think it was. more that they had been so kind of sucked into  this narrative that they almost they needed to. protect the drugs and they needed to um yeah they  needed to be kind of advocates for them. So rather.

than actually doing good science and really having  a critical look at all of the problems that were. happening with them like the withdrawal problems  like PSSD really clear issues they they were so. hesitant to call people out call call it out. So  I I feel like it it had it had been captured by. industry just through a lot all of that messaging.  We did an interview with a woman called Casey.

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as regulatory capture, and regulators are  cut off from the effects of the drugs that. they're regulating because they're not treating  patients. So, I'm not making excuses, but I I. I'm not surprised. What I am surprised by is the  behavior of clinicians, of physicians prescribing. these drugs to individual people with whom they're  in regular contact, and they somehow don't notice. that these people are not getting better and then  killing themselves or going through all these. other problems that uh are the results of side  effects. Like, why don't the doctors notice this?

um like where are the where are the decent  doctors? So there are some I mean there are decent. doctors out there and people are waking up to this  but a lot of the rank and file uh physicians again. they they have been marinating in a in a soup of  um just marketing messages like when when you see. someone who is getting worse like you you put them  on an SSRI and they have a manic type reaction to.

it um rather does that happen? That does happen.  Yeah. this is a this is a side effect rather than. saying oh we we made you manic because we put you  on this SSRI you can just say you have bipolar. disorder you know you were depressed before but  you know now because you're manic you have bipolar. disorder there there was always this tilt towards  viewing worsening as the underlying condition. um and and so so many people are trained in that  way um that is there evidence to support that no.

there's no evidence to support it it's like  that. I mean the whole diagnostic criteria in. psychiatry it's just it's completely subjective.  It's just you know you just kind of do you have. these symptoms? Okay, maybe you have bipolar  disorder. And there's a very limited education. about the side effects. Um, it's also easier for  doctors to look at worsening as the development of. a new condition because what that means is one,  you know, I'm not at fault, you know, because,

you know, put this person on the drug and they're  worse. But two, if I just diagnose them as having. a new condition, I can just hand them another  drug. It's it's very kind of quick to just say, "Okay, well, now you have bipolar disorder.  Don't worry, we got a drug for that." And it. allows you to kind of treat them in a very quick  way rather than going through the mess of saying, "Hey, you know, this was a drug side effect. Now  we have to get you off of it." That's a lot of a.

much more involved process. It sounds like the  culture of medicine in this country is really. uh kind of antihuman. I mean, like, what about the  people? I'm sorry. I'm I'm being mean, but I No, I mean, it is. I mean it's it's it's a practice  that has been uh really destroyed by a whole. range of bad influences. I mean one the uh we  can't trust our academics because so many of the. academics that teach doctors are actually um on  the payroll of pharmaceutical companies. They are.

in positions of power because um of assistance  from the drug companies. Um we also have um a. health insurance system that incentivizes people  doctors to see patients in the shortest period of. time. You don't you don't get incentivized to make  someone well. You get incentivized to to just kind. of churn through them. And so you make nearly like  if if you were to see one patient for, you know,

45 minutes to an hour, you essentially make half  as much as if you were to just churn through four. patients within that period of time. So, so even  doctors have this incentive just to to to default. to the fastest thing, which is to check diagnose  someone off a checklist and give them a drug cuz. that's a hell of a lot easier than understanding  their life and their relationships and their work. and their health and all of that. Um, and and so  that's that's really what's happened. What what.

are the side effects of SSRI? So um there there  are a couple but I want to start with one which. really doesn't get a lot of air time and that  is actually the effect that everyone has and. so the these drugs they work through emotional  constriction and there's an opportunity what's. emotional constriction numbing numbing. So if  you're having like a lot of anxiety uh negative. emotions it kind of just sucks it in but it it'll  also take out the positive things. So many people.

will experience that as therapeutic, but I mean  the risk of this is that you miss an opportunity. to actually address the real reasons um that  you're unhappy. Many doctors, they they will not. talk to patients about this. And most people have  very clear issues why they're unhappy. You know, they're having problems with drugs. you know,  they're they're um they have relationship. issues. They have they have work issues. They  they have, you know, they're eating terrible.

foods. They have like massive insulin resistance  or diabetes that has completely disrupted the. energy system of their body. And their neurons  are just starving for energy. If you're having. these legitimate problems, you just throw a drug  on top of it to mask that anxiety that is really. like the smoke detector saying, "Proble, problem,  problem." Those issues, they just fester. they. just kind of sit there um and and they just get  worse over time. To me, that is the number one.

problem with these medications is that that you  you miss an opportunity to actually address the. problem that is causing the anxiety. That seems  I now that you're saying it out loud so obvious. Yeah. Like people have anxiety for a reason. They  feel sad for a reason that I mean most of the time. anyway. Correct. Yeah, I mean it is correct but  to say that some people would say Tucker that is a.

really insensitive thing to say these people have  medical problems you know there and and and that. is what but you could say sure it's a depression's  a medical I'm happy to I'm happy to acknowledge. it's a medical problem with dire con once you kill  yourself it's very serious it's it's not you know. reducing the seriousness of it or dismissing it  as fake it's acknowledging just how real it is. It's more real than a serotonin imbalance. It  has to do with like Yeah. your life. Mhm. So,

I just can't believe there are people that stupid  and shallow practicing medicine. Yeah. They've. done a number on us. Yeah. Cuz I mean there not  a lot of dumb doctors. They're all pretty smart, right? The screening it's for intelligence to  some extent. But like that's just so shallow. I guess that's what you mentioned religion.  I mean, I think we're ideologues in there. We've been we've been um pushed into thinking  about mental illness essentially in a way that.

benefits drug companies and um and a profession  because psychiatry as a profession is also really. into pushing this narrative because it gives us  a primacy amongst their health care professionals. to say that's right we are the doctors and we  have the drugs and and because of that we need. to protect the reputation of the drugs because to  do so is to elevate us. So that is really deep and. smart. No, that's right. Because psychiatrists in  this country anyway are unique among mental health.

professionals in that they can prescribe the  drugs. Yeah. That's what makes you fundamentally. different, right? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And so yeah,  there's there's there's guild interests at play. as well. Guild interest, I'm sure. Yeah. Right.  Because the marriage counselor can't give you. SSRIs. Yeah. But you can. Yep. And that's why  we're special. And that's why don't question. the drugs. Wow. That's so plausible. Yeah. So  the first what you describe is the first side. effect is effectively ignoring the cause of the  illness in the first place and that has costs.

Yeah. And you know I'm going to mention a whole  bunch of other things that are important. We've. got PSSD. We have brain damage during withdrawal.  We have uh homicidal behavior. Okay. So let's just. let's let's go in order. Yeah. Yeah. PSSD. Yes.  So this is what does that stand for? It stands. for post SSRI sexual dysfunction. Um, and from  my perspective, this is the biggest scandal in. psychiatry going on at the moment that that has  been not discussed. Now, there are people who get.

put on these medications that um well firstly  when you one of the big side effects of these. medications is sexual dysfunction. It happens  in I think it's like like 70% of people who. die. 70%. Yeah. Yeah. So, and when you say  sexual dysfunction, since you're a doctor, we can just be totally blunt. What are you  specifically you talking about? Yeah. So, so, uh, it would be like loss of interest in sex,  you know, uh, loss of arousal, difficulty to,

uh, to to reach climax and erectile dysfunction.  Wow. Yeah. 70%. 70%. This is a a really normal. side effect. Um, and but the issue is we tell  people that this goes away when they come off. the medications. And this is just a temporary  tradeoff. You know, to feel less depressed, you're going to deal with the sexual dysfunction.  But what we've been seeing is that um these drugs. are causing permanent sexual dysfunction and  people even when they come off of them, they.

develop um you know, on top of all of those things  I mentioned, they will develop genital anesthesia. And so this is a real like neurological issue like  the those areas down there they they they lose. erogenous sensation. People will say that when  they touch down there it feels like the back of. their hand or the back of their arm and so there's  sensory changes. Are you serious? Yeah. And and so. so it's totally frightening. But for how long? It  can be permanent for some people. Come on. Yeah.

And so um the prognosis is actually really it it's  not good for that. I I you know some people will. recover in you know 3 years or so but there are  case reports out there where this has gone on. for decades but yeah but it's not just that and  here is the basically you're castrating people. You bet you're essentially castrating people but  it's worse than that because how could anything. be worse than that because along with the sexual  dysfunction um and this is where the condition is. is misunderstood. People think it's just a sexual  problem which is already horrific as is. It causes.

um it causes cognitive damage as well. People  will will along with that they'll have difficulty. severe difficulty concentrating, focusing,  paying attention. And there's also severe. emotional blunting. And so people will talk  about being completely dissociated as well. uh from their emotions. Like if you were to  hug a child, you know, your child or your wife, you you just don't feel anything warm. If you were  to hear a favorite song from your childhood that.

you know used to make like the back of your neck  kind of prickle from nostalgia, all of that gets. like nuked and and and and taken out. And so you  have people who are essentially labbotomized with. cognitive impairment who actually who also have  severe sexual dysfunction. So you're basically. destroying someone's soul. I mean the things that  make you distinctly human. Yeah. your your love, your emotional response, your sexual response,  which is very deep. It's not just I'm horny.

today. It's like it's your life force. It's  your procreative force. It's what keeps the. species alive. That's gone. It's it's wiped out  and and people become highly suicidal because. when you don't feel anything, you don't feel  any connection to life, it's it's like there's. nothing to live for anymore. And so the suicide  rate in this population is through the roof. And and I want to say something a second. And this  is all confirmed. Yeah. So So that's what I want.

to say. Some people hearing this would be like,  "This is so crazy. There's no way this could be. true." Yes. That that's my response. Yeah. PSSD  is a listed side effect in the European Union. So the European Union has already acted on this.  They've put it in the warnings and precautions. of all of the SSRIs and SNRI anti-depressants  over there. So they have recognized it. Canada. has recognized it. Australia has recognized it.  Hong Kong has recognized it. The New York Times. has run pieces on this. It's this is being  reviewed by the FDA right now. This this is.

like this is not a fringe issue. This is something  that several regulatory agencies like the biggest. ones in the world like the European Union, second  biggest regulatory agency in the world, they have. acknowledged this and they put this in the drug  labels to warn doctors um so they can talk to. their patients about this. This this isn't fringe.  This is completely acknowledged um by major health. regulators, but doctors do not tell patients  about it. Doctors know. Most of the doctors.

don't know. And that's because well, there is no  incentive to get this message out there. Now when. this came on um so when the European Union Wait,  so there there's a huge population of SSRI Unix, many of whom kill themselves out of despair caused  by SSRIs and yet for some reason nobody knows this.

is happening. I'm con I'm confused. Like why  don't people talk about this? Again, it's it's. this issue where um I think media doesn't want  to touch it because to do so would be to scare. people away from life-saving drugs. You should  be experiencing comfort every single day of the. year. And it should not be something that happens  every so often when you get home from work. No, all the time, no questions asked. And that's why  we recommend Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth makes bamboo.

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heard about Cozy Earth right here on this podcast.  Built for real life, made to keep up with your. life. Cozy Earth. How are they life-saving if they  hike the suicide rate? They're clearly implicated. in mass shootings. Let me say that again.  They're clearly implicated in mass shootings and. they castrate people and make them want to kill  themselves. Like, how is that life-saving? I mean, it's just a slogan because they're not life-saving  at all because when you look at um actually, you know, the clinical trial data, um it's clear  evidence that people who are under age 25, it.

actually makes them they engage in more suicidal  activity than the people on placebo. It's it's. absolutely insane. Um and then when reanalyses  have been done looking at the adult populations, they also find higher rates of suicide in the  clinical trials. these these these but I want. to have some nuance here. They can be experienced  as life saving for some people. Like if you have a. lot of anxiety and you get put on this medication  and it blunts it, you will experience that at life.

saving as as feeling life-saving in that moment.  But in general on a population level, they're. actually contributing to more suicide. I feel that  way about vodka. Yeah. Really strongly. I'm being. serious. Not any heavy drinker can tell you. You  wake up and you feel completely out of control. Completely out of control. You know, you just  feel like your head's going to explode. You got. pins and needles, anxiety. You just you're you're  so sensitive. You can't even like live in this. world. And you have I was a double screwdriver  in the morning guy. Mhm. Solves the problem like.

right away. You by the time you get to the bottom  of the glass, you're under control. Mhm. So I. would call that and in fact at the time did call  that life-saving. Yeah. And then of course the. progression of alcohol and alcoholism is is well  known to most people. So it's like people laugh. at you and you say it's life-saving. How is vodka  in the morning life-saving? Well, if you know if. you've experienced it, you know why someone could  say that. Yeah. But big picture that's insane. So.

SSRI sound like exactly the same phenomenon. It  is. I mean on multiple levels I think you know. they one they make you ignore the real problems  which fester and get worse and could actually. push you eventually towards becoming suicidal and  two I think they they disrupt your brain chemistry. over time and actually make you more likely to be  depressed and develop other issues. I just can't. believe ba the basically the entire weight of the  American medical establishment, the regulatory.

bodies, the some of the biggest publicly traded  companies in the world, they're all basically. prescribing vodka to desperate people. It sounds  crazy. Um, and I it does. It honestly does sound. crazy. And people are going to listen to this and  they're going to say, you know, this is crazy. Um, but the beauty of it and the reason I feel so  good about having this conversation is that. it's provable. We don't have to guess because we  have the outcomes. Mhm. Right. So the two numbers.

it's as a layman that seem relevant to me doses  prescribed suicide rate. Like that just seems like. a pretty big picture way to measure success. If  more people are killing themselves as you got more. prescriptions for this garbage, it's at very least  not working. Can we say that? I mean that seems. logical. I think it makes sense when you look at  that on the population level, but I also think it. makes sense intuitively for a lot of people. I  mean, with I mean, with nearly, you know, 15 to.

20% of people being on these medications, everyone  knows someone who's on these drugs in their. family, in their in their social circle. Just  look how are they doing? Are the are these people. thriving? You know, a lot of the times, I mean,  the stories that I hear is that person's not doing. that great. you know, they or they they've slowly  gotten worse over time. I mean, you can look at. it at a population level, but this issue is so  common. People actually see this in their real. life uh in in the people that they know. Have you  ever spoken to someone who had numb genitals or no.

sex drive? Yeah, I've spoken to probably 20 to 30  of them. What What do they say? What's that like? It's like they wake up in a horror movie. Um I you  know, I think about a woman named Rosie. Um, and I. interviewed her and from my recollection, I mean,  she so she she got on one of these medications, beautiful young woman, and she ended up developing  PSSD. She told the doctor that it had happened.

to her and she became incredibly distressed.  You know, what is happening to me? Um, her sex. drive just gone. Sex drive gone. Cognitive damage,  emotional blunting, completely disassociated from. her family from from her emotions and disconnected  from her life. The doctor involuntarily. hospitalized her, saying that she was delusional  and that she had health anxiety and tried to. pressure her onto antiscychotic medication because  they just they simply did not they they could not.

accept that this had happened. They managed to  briefly turn her family against her and just say, you know, she's she's wrong. She's delusional. She  has another psychiatric condition. And so she ends. up in a psychiatric hospital. Talk about a horror  show. You get put on a medication that's meant to. help you. It destroys your nervous system and and  then a doctor involuntarily hospitalizes you and. turns your family against you. These people  literally wake up in a horror show. I spoke. to another person in India. Is the doctor still  practicing? Oh yeah, they didn't. Yeah, they're.

still practicing. And this is not isolated. I  spoke to Why is that person not in jail? [Music]. You know, it's that's so cruel. That's  criminal in my opinion. So yeah. Um. sorry I'm interrupting. I'm getting to be mad  again. Um you spoke to someone in India. Well, the same thing happened. Yeah. It you know because  you know doctors they they've never heard of this. condition before and it just seems like you  know too too crazy to be true. How could these.

life saving drugs, you know, do something like  this? Um and the same thing happened. you know, he ended up being involuntarily hospitalized,  this this young man, for months. Um, and his family was turned against him. He kept on  trying to tell them that this had happened to him, and it took them months to to let  him out. And and and and so, yeah, it's it's it's about the worst thing that I  could ever imagine happening to someone. And.

they lose people all the time. Uh the suicide  rates out of control in in this population. So, a doctor who refuses to see the obvious  and is committed knowingly or not to a lie, it seems to me it would be likely in a case like  this to prescribe a drug on top of the drug that. it clearly caused Yeah. the symptoms he's trying  to treat, right? Yeah. What happens when you do. that? A lot of these patients seem like they're on  all kinds of different drugs. How do they interact.

with each other? What's what's the effect of that?  Yeah. I mean, you I mean, it's it's awful, right? You know, you have someone who's highly distressed  for legitimate reasons with a with a totally. messed up nervous system and you've just thrown  them on an antisycchotic. So now they're kind of. like blunted and even more dullled uh dealing with  the same problem. So if these drugs can eliminate. your sexual response, numb your genitals for life,  drive you to suicide, what other is it possible. that they have other sexual side effects? Well,  having spoken to um some of these PSSD sufferers,

um I've had two men, a heterosexual men, tell  me that they started to question their sexuality. um because of because of all of the the  blunting that was going on. These were men. who were having encounters with women that they  were just saying, "I would find this person very. arousing and attractive, and that's not happening  anymore." And they start wondering whether they're.

gay. And so I think on that level it can make  people feel asexual. It can make people start. to question their sexuality. Um you know which  I've directly seen. And then the whole other issue. which is even more frightening is the is the data  that's coming out is some of the animal studies. um about what happens to to mice who were exposed  in uterero to anti-depressants. Uh because this. has always been a question that people have been  curious about. You know, is there like what are.

the effects of exposing a developing nervous  system during this period of life where it goes. from being like a speck to a fully formed brain in  9 months? You know, these drugs freely crossplac. Yeah. All psychiatric drugs freely cross. So  mothers taking these drugs, the drugs are in the. developing child. Yes. Yes. We know that. Yeah.  Fact. Yeah. But no studies been done on what that.

means. Well, there have been some studies um and  so um firstly there's the so there's the studies. in in in rats um and mice and what they find is  that the mice who are exposed in uterero they grow. up with a higher rate of autistic like behaviors  and also decreased sexual interest. So they mate. less than the other mice. Now you might be saying  hey well that's just mice. Who knows if that. happens in humans? I tell you what, I'm concerned  enough about that already to to worry about. humans. I don't need to see that human study, but  we do have some studies in humans. And what we've.

uh and what they've found is, you know, we have 12  MRI studies that have controlled for depression, which is essentially just a fancy way of making  sure that depression isn't a factor. and and they. they've looked at the brains and they find that  there's structural changes and functional changes. in the brains of of of kids who are exposed  versus those who are not exposed. They've then.

gone again and looked at this when they when the  kids have become adolescents and they've looked. at their sensory processing and the kids who  were exposed growing up um had altered sensory. processing when they looked at the amydala. It's  a part of the brain that's uh responsible for. uh um high emotions and and those changes they  have correlated with worse mental health outcomes. Um, so that's like a whole another topic that I  was recently at the FDA talking about this with.

some of my colleagues that many women are not  actually being told that uh there are real risks. um to you know to your child if you if you take  these medications um when their nervous system is. developing. Are they prescribed to pregnant women?  10% of pregnant I I think 9 or 10% of pregnant. women are taking anti-depressants. There's been  a massive increase in uh well sexual changes of.

all kinds um in the way that people couple in the  way you know literally in the way they have sex in. the outcome that were children who were born and  in selfidentified sexual orientation. a massive. increase in homosexuality, massive increase, like  mind-boggling increase in transgenderism. No one. seems interested in why. Mhm. Is it possible that  if you've got 10% of the population on these drugs. that that there's a connection there? I mean,  that's that's I I think that's something to be.

explored because, you know, yes, you could make an  argument, okay, the world is more accepting these. days and and and maybe people are coming out, but  that's [ __ ] The numbers are so high that that's. not it. But I'm looking at these animal this these  animal data. I'm I'm seeing changes in in sexual. interest in the mice who are exposed growing up.  I mean, we're putting kids who are seven, six, seven, eight, who go through sexual maturity  with their sex drive essentially blunted from.

these medications. Um, I' I'm having people come  to me and tell me that they're questioning their. sexuality because they're not feeling attraction  and arousal, right? You connect the dots. I mean, it has to be playing a role. Is there like  currently an NIH study of this underway? Is. anyone saying, "Hey, wait a second." Like, you  could change the future of humanity with this. kind of stuff. This is like big consequences.  No, I mean, the NI the NIMH has essentially.

been useless. I mean, they all all they do from  from what I see is they they they just they're. essentially just looking for drug targets in the  brain. They're not doing any research into side. effects. They're not doing any studies comparing  non-drug alternatives to drugs for the treatment. of anxiety and depression. They are so captured  and just obsessed with finding the next target. to throw a drug at. Um I think the American public  has been betrayed by the NIMH. I really do. Well,

sounds like a lot of people have been killed.  What about um going back to the question of. side effects? Um, I I don't think every time you  you raise the question like, "Hey, it seems like a. lot of the school shooters that we know about, to  the extent we know anything about a lot of them, um, they seem to be on these drugs." Mhm. Has  there been research into that? I know you're. not allowed to say that. YouTube like shuts you  down if you say that. I don't know why. Yeah,

we're we're throttled for sure, you know,  but for for asking that question. Yeah, for asking that question. Yep. Yeah. There weren't  school shootings, you know? I mean, the biggest. school shooting of like American history took  place at the University of Texas. Chuck Whitman, who turns out he had a a brain tumor. So,  there was like there was like a reason that. that happened. Went up in the bell tower, killed  all these people. Then there was a lull and then. Coline happens and then there's like probably  many reasons for this. But the increase in school.

shootings coincides with almost precisely  coincides with almost precisely coincides. with this massive increase in prescription of  these drugs. So like is anyone studying this? Well, it's actually really hard to study is is  the issue. Um so I want to say this because this. is you know a topic you know I don't think drugs  are involved in all the school shootings. I do. think there is a social contagion element to it.  But I I do think if you just if you look at the.

side effects of all of these medications,  they it's already in the label. You know, if you look at stimulants right there, it says  it can cause aggression and hostility. If you. look at antiscychotics like Ailify in the label,  it says it can cause aggression. If you look at. the anti-depressants, it also says it can cause  mania and aggression and agitation. And that's. kind of the opposite of the intended effect. No.  Well, what these things are are paradoxical side.

effects. And so, and maybe an easy way to think  about it is if there were 10 people in a room and. there was smoking cannabis, you know, you might  have nine people giggling and you have one person. becoming paranoid, there's something just about  that person's genetics and the way they respond to. it that they have the opposite reaction. Yes. And  so, that can happen with psychiatric medications. And so these are rare side effects, you know,  um, and but if you're putting like, you know,

15% of the population on these on these drugs,  rare side effects are going to happen. Um, and you. know, so the next thing is, like I said, we know  these these drugs can do this. Well, has this ever. actually happened? And it has because, you know,  there's there have been lawsuits. For instance, there was one in the early 90s um a it was the  Tobin case. There was a gentleman called Don Shell. um who had had a bad reaction to Pax he had a bad  reaction I think to Prozac and then he was put on.

PEL um many years later and shortly thereafter  he became incredibly homicidal and he killed. his wife, his daughter and his granddaughter and  then shot himself. Um, now the son, the surviving. son-in-law, the the husband of the daughter  who he killed ended up bringing suit against, I think it was Smith Klein at the time. It wasn't  GSK. Um, they go to a they go to a jury trial and.

they and they win. Um, it gets it gets appealed  and then the the appeal isn't successful and and. he ends up getting paid out. And so we even  have I mean we have legal cases where jurors. have listened to the evidence of these cases and  said if not for this drug you know this this awful. murder suicide wouldn't have happened. And so  we know this happens from court cases and there. have been many other cases like this. You just  never hear about them because you're not allowed. to talk about this. Uh why would this video be  throttled for broaching this topic? I'm confused.

Well, because I mean the dominant narrative is  essentially that school shootings are caused by. guns. And if you are to I have a lot of guns. It's  never occurred to me. Yeah. And and so that I mean. it's it's this is meant to be stigmatizing. This  is meant to be something that scares people away. from medications and it doesn't fit the mold. Um  I mean because to if you were to accept that this.

this can happen you know like if this even if this  is a one in two million type side effect that's. still happening a couple times a year that people  are becoming homicidal on on these medications. Um and so I think people they don't you you you  just can't say it. It's it's it's it's taboo. Um, it shouldn't be if you care about the  murdered kids at, you know, the schools. Um,

it's changing though and and this is like a silver  lining here that will make people like me seem a. lot less crazy because through bipartisan support,  the governor of Tennessee just uh instituted a new. law mandating that following school shootings,  there needs to be an investigation into the. use of psychiatric medications. this is the  first state to actually try and get that data. um uh to look into it because often times it's  you know it's redacted the FBI has it they.

don't give it to anyone it's kind of like shoved  away in a box but in the state of Tennessee with. bipartisan support they will now look at this  for any school shootings good good so what okay. um you are you know middle-aged person going  through the middleage you know the litany of. middle-ag age drama and you find yourself sad,  maybe even depressed. You go to the shrink and. you are prescribed drugs. What are the most  commonly prescribed drugs? Which are the.

drugs you should be the most afraid of? Assuming  there's a difference. I mean, I think the SSRI, we've talked a lot about them, but the other  class are benzoazipines. These are awful drugs. Uh. they're usually used for an anxiety and insomnia.  And what are the brand names on those? Xanax, Clonopin, Valium, um, Tamasipam. Yeah, very  common drugs in this country. Really? Yeah,

their use is declining. Um, but they are still  they're still quite common. The main issue with. them is that they go, they feel good. And I  know we were talking about this before and. you had mentioned taking one before. I mean,  it's it's I've taken them. It's almost like. immediate like you take I took one in high school.  I never took another one because it was the most. profound. I mean they solve all your problems  in like 4 minutes. Yeah. So super addictive,

right? You know, to to have something like  that on hand. But the real problem with the. benzo is when it comes to coming off of them,  they can be incredibly difficult to stop. Um, and what does that mean difficult to stop? uh  that so because they have such a potent sort of. anxiety reducing and insomnia uh and sorry a sleep  inducing effect when you come off of them your.

anxiety goes through the roof and and you develop  severe insomnia. Some people even die from coming. off benzoazipines. It's it's so jarring to the  brain and because of that people can get trapped. off the drug trapped on the drug every time they  try and come off of it. it's so uncomfortable that. they have to go back on. And they can also develop  another condition called uh protracted withdrawal. And so some people when they've been on this  medication for years and they try and come off, they develop a kind of a brain injury. And so  they they taper themselves off the medication.

too quickly um and they go into a severe  withdrawal and it and the symptoms never stop. They they end up with ringing in their ears, light  sensitivity, cognitive impairment, severe anxiety, burning in their hands and feet. Oh, come  on. Yeah. And then they say to themselves, they go, "I'm just in withdrawal. You know,  I've been white knuckling through this for the. last couple of months. I'm just going to start  the drug again. I don't want to deal with this. anymore. I'll I'll find another way to come off."  They start the drug again. It doesn't go away. Um,

and this is Wait, the symptoms don't go away. The  symptoms don't go away. And this is these are the. patients that I actually treat in my practice.  I'd say probably 70% of the people I work with. now have neurological damage from coming off  benzoazipines and SSRI medications too quickly. Um thankfully it actually has a I mean it's awful.  It it has a decent prognosis. Most people recover.

from it within 2 years but for many people it can  be two years of severe disability. Um, and these. are the people you treat. These are the people  I treat. So, you see this? So, I see this on a. daily basis. I see this multiple days a week. Uh,  people who have brain damage uh from coming off. these medications too quickly. Now, again, I know  most people haven't heard about this before, so. they're going to be listening to this and saying,  you know, this is crazy. You know, how could I. have never heard that coming off these medications  could induce brain damage? Read the drug labels.

in in the US. every single benzoazipene um has a  section in there that says that talks about the. risk of protracted withdrawal. So what does that  look like? So describe obviously anonymously but. like the experience of one of your patients.  So the experience of one of my patients is man. I mean it's it's it's so it's so bad. uh you  were living your life one day you decide to.

come off a medication and then before you know  it your whole life is turned upside down. Uh. your brain you are gripped with severe anxiety  and obsessive dark thoughts that just torment. you all the time. You never have a moment of rest  or relaxation. You you simply cannot relax. Some.

people feel so keyed up that they pace incessantly  in circles. It's a condition called acthesia. Um. um and they they cannot stop moving. They become  social recluses because they cannot go out in. public because it's too bright, it's too noisy.  The the nervous system is like a snail without. a shell. Even interacting with people in their  shopping center can cause like you know surges.

in adrenaline. Uh people have severe neuropathic  pain. They when you know their feet burn um and it. destroys families. I mean people become disabled.  Um people take their lives uh frequently. Um, and this is, you know, I know I mentioned before  about PSSD being like the biggest story going on, but this this would be just as big. Honestly,  there are probably millions of people who are.

suffering from protracted withdrawal from benzo  or SSRI. Um um thankfully this has actually been. picked up a lot by um major uh news outlets  um recently but it's this condition has and. it and it and it does kill people. It how long  do you have to be on benzos or resus to develop. physical dependency and to get these kind of  withdrawal symptoms? So most people it's several. years and then uh it's triggered by coming off the  medication. several years. I mean, yeah. Is there.

any evidence it's a good idea to put someone on  a srise or benzo for years? No. No, there there. isn't. But I do want to say I I have had some  people develop this much quicker than several. years, like within taking the medication for a  few months, things like that. That's much less. common. Usually the way it happens is you're on  it for several years, 5 years, decades, you come. off too quickly and get hit. Yeah. That's really  common. You've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Decades.

What is the doctor thinking? Well, the when  they put them on these drugs for decades. Well, I mean, if someone's coming back to get a script  filled, you know, after 15, 20 years of taking. one of these drugs, it's like does no one pause  to say, "What does it do to some?" The brain's. not designed for that, right? Yeah. They're Well,  they think that they're helping the person. Um, at the risk of getting a little technical, I want  to go here because I think it's important. Each,

so when when a drug comes onto the market, there's  a study called a relapse prevention study. This is. essentially the rationale for leaving people on  these drugs indefinitely like and and so I think. it's important to talk a bit about the design of  these studies because it's so it's so telling. Essentially, a drug company will get a group  of people and they'll put them on the drug for. like say 6 months. And so you have 500 people  on the drug for 6 months. 250 you then this is.

actually how the studies are designed. 250 people  at a certain point they continue the drug and the. other 250 they rapidly stop it. Um, and so they  pull them off the drug either immediately or at. the longest about 2 weeks and then they watch  what happens to those two groups over time. And and they're looking for um how many people  become depressed in the two groups with the the.

thinking being well, you know, if the patients  who continued the drug become less depressed, then that means it works. But the issue  with these studies is that it completely. ignores the fact that people develop withdrawal.  And so if you stick a bunch of people on this drug. for 6 months and then you stop it immediately  or within 2 weeks, they are going to develop. withdrawal symptoms. They will that will look like  a depression. Um and and so the study is flawed.

Essentially, it's it's majorly flawed. It's  embarrassing that the FDA even allows this and. that doctors even believe this is a a rationale  for keeping people on these medications. Um, and that's it. That is that is the study that lets  doctors feel good about filling these drugs up. again and again and again because they say, "Oh,  we're we're preventing relapse because this this. poorly designed study that makes no sense. That  is honestly just embarrassing even to believe in.".

Uh showed that when you rapidly pulled people off  the medication, there was more depressive relapse, which really it wasn't. It was just withdrawal.  Um, and so just even at the heart of it is just. bad science and faulty studies. I mean, even I  uh as a non-scientist can understand the gaps in. the logic there. It seems pretty obvious that it  doesn't make a lot of sense, but I'm fixated on. the worldview that allows this to persist. Like,  how would you have to feel about other people to. allow this kind of stuff to happen? And I just  want to ask when you were doing your training as a.

doctor for whatever six or eight 10 years, however  long it took, did you get a sense that other. doctors considered like the human soul ever? Or  is there a sense that people are just like a more. evolved animal? Is there something special about  people? Do they have like is there a spiritual. component to a person? Did anyone ever acknowledge  that? We no we that's not part of the training. So.

if you think people are just clever cattle you can  treat them like this. Yeah. Where you know with. biological systems you know where you can sort  of just tinker with it with the right chemical. That's what we are. That's the belief. That's the  way biological psychiatry is taught. So it's kind. of inevitable you're going to wind up in a place  like this, isn't it? because that that's not true. People are not just machines, right? And no other  civilization's ever thought that they were. Yeah.

Sorry, I don't I don't mean to bum you out.  No, no, I'm just I'm I'm thinking about I mean, the only reason that happens is because there  is such a massive incentive to recast the human. experience in that way. Yeah. Yeah. But it's  that's not reality. Yeah. At all. No. Um. Yeah.

So, what about uh amphetamines and their ADHD and  the fact that like every third kid on your street. is taking this stuff? Like what what is ADHD?  Are amphetamines an effective way to treat it? What are the long-term effects of those drugs?  Yeah, I mean ADHD I mean I want to start here. So there was there was an awesome piece in the  in New York magazine recently that summarized a.

lot of this research but it really the the thing  that most parents care about is usually academic. improvement that that's why they want their kids  on these medications. When you look at the results. long term they do not improve academics. What  they find is that the medications are mostly. effective for controlling behavior. So when you  have kids who are fidgety, who are having to pay. attention to things that are boring, uh putting  them on medications makes them easier to control.

Um so if you're like a bad teacher, yeah, they're  good. They're good. They're they're great. Um, now. I mean there is some I mean ADHD is interesting  because it kind of hits at the um at like societal. expectations like in in the US and in a lot of  developed countries academic success is synonymous. with your value as a person. you know, if if  you you have to be successful at school um to.

to be worthy. And a lot of parents uh believe  that. And so they will push their kids into, you know, subjects and, you know, even university  courses um because they want to help them. They. think they're helping them by pushing them into  these things. And the kids are really struggling. and they're not interested in it. And you can put  someone on a stimulant and it will make something. that's boring more interesting. Definitely. Yeah.  And so there's there's also you have the world's. most boring conversations on cocaine, but you  have no idea they're boring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And and so that's that's the same with um with  with your studies. Um and then I think another. thing that I believe is going on that really  doesn't get enough airtime is that actually a. lot of lifestyle problems are leading to uh ADHD,  especially in adults. Um and the main one being. uh poor diet and insulin resistance. You know, as  people become insulin resistant, um they end up.

with more anxiety, more depression, and more  brain fog. Essentially, they they've they've. broken their body, um because they've been eating  too many refined carbohydrates, added sugars, all of that. And it makes it very hard for um  neurons to um to to work when when when the system. is disrupted. There's too much insulin. can't pull  energy in. And so I think the a lot of people out. there have very legitimate real problems focusing  and feeling foggy, but they're not really looking.

at at lifestyle issues that are really clear. Um,  and often times people if they do things like, you. know, they they try ketogenic diets. This is like  a really big thing in the mental health space and. they work for a lot of mental health conditions  because they reverse insulin resistance and they. improve uh energy, you know, the way your cells um  um your cells work. And so I think the biggest the. biggest thing that I worry about so that it it  does work the low carb diet. Yes. Affects your.

mental health. Yeah. Yeah. Um in a major way.  Some people even call Alzheimer's type three uh. diabetes because the correlation between the the  worsening of um you know diabetes type 2 and and. your blood sugar levels correlates with cognitive  decline. I mean the um insulin resistance diabetes. all has very strong links to cognitive decline.  Um, and so when it comes to ADHD, I think the. thing that bothers me the most is that there's  there's actually a lot of reversible things that.

you could do there. You can, you know, if you  have brain fog, it's not that you're just like, you know, you're weak and you're not um trying  hard enough or you're lazy or something like that. I mean, if you if you can if you can look at your  diet and there's things you can optimize there, if you can get moving, if you can stop smoking  cannabis, um there's a lot of and you know, obviously if you can actually try and do work that  you genuinely find energizing and that you enjoy,

you probably won't need to be on stimulants. Stop  smoking cannabis. I thought cannabis was good for. you. It's medicine. It's a medicine. It's a herb.  Cannabis is actually this is this is you're going. to get me on something that I'm really bothered  about. Um is that cannabis is it's a massive. gateway drug into the psychiatric industry. Um  it it it is a huge trigger for mania and and. schizophrenia. It's it is completely downplayed  by big cannabis because we've decided to legalize.

it in so many states now. Um, and many people  they'll they'll end up they'll think, you know, it's it's it's harmless. It's this herb, not  realizing that the potency has increased like 40. times uh since what it used to be. And it and it  it just it triggers mania and psychosis. And then. the doctors will see them and the doctors will  downplay the role of cannabis and they'll say, "Oh, you have schizophrenia or you have bipolar."  And then they put them on an antiscychotic. And.

then this person just ends up on antiscychotics  for a really long period of time when really the. issue was that they had a psychotic reaction.  So you believe that cannabis use can lead to. schizophrenia. I I wouldn't say schizophrenia. I  would say I believe that cannabis use can cause. psychosis and that psychosis can endure  sometimes for like a year or two after. they have the psychotic break. Um because to say  something is schizoph it's schizophrenia makes it.

sound like you know it's a they just had a broken  brain you know their brain was broken and it was. just inevitable to happen. I I've worked with  patients who have smoked cannabis they've had. psychotic reactions and um even after they've come  off the cannabis for a period of like a year or. two they've still experienced periodic uh episodes  of psychosis before it fizzled out. The only way I.

can understand that is that that drug when they  had that psychotic episode, it actually damaged. their brain. It it was like a it was like a big  hit and it took them a couple years afterwards to. fully recover from that. And I've looked into this  with many other people who actually work in this. space and they see that when you have a psychotic  reaction uh to cannabis, it can sometimes take. months or even a year or two to fully go away. I  think doctors misdiagnose that and tell someone, "This is a sign you have a broken brain. you have  schizophrenia. Time to put you on the drug. Um,

so you're saying that the drug companies wouldn't  necessarily be opposed to marijuana legalization? No. No. It's it's it's it's creating customers.  Do you really think that? I mean, I don't know. That's really dark. Well, I don't think they  are, you know, I don't know if there's like. a drug company lobbyist out there just being  like, "Hey, you know, we really want to kind. of push this knowingly." But it sure helps them  that big cannabis is out there and it is sewing.

a message that essentially this these drugs are  safe herbs. These drugs are medicine when they're. I mean they're Frankenstein drugs now. I mean  they're 40 times more potent than than how they. used to be. So just a bottom line as a practicing  licensed psychiatrist would you ever prescribe. cannabis to a patient for mental illness?  No. That it doesn't make any sense at all. would you prescribe SSRIs? So, this is where  there's a bit more um nuance here. I think.

we have to use every tool that we have and I  mean there are a lot of people out there who. will say I mean the the the fact is these drugs  have saved people's lives. I I can say that you. know even with a lot of the concern that you know  the drug effect wears off but imagine someone who. They come in and they're unhappy and and and this  is this is rare. You talk to them about their.

life. There's no relationship issues going on. It  looks really good. Work is fine. You've tried to. optimize their health. You've done everything that  you could and they're still unhappy. Something is. still going on. You know, maybe they have  really severe OCD or something like that. I'm not going to sit there and just say I  I'm not going to give you any treatment. If. I've tried all of the non-drug strategies  to help you and you're still suffering, I will give you informed consent about the  medication. I will put you on it and I'll.

monitor you and I'll I'll do my best to make sure  that you're that you're functioning and you know, if there's side effects that come up, I'll catch  them early. My issue with the medications is that. they're used first up without anyone trying with  with minimal with with lip service really to to. helping people with non-drug means first. But  if you've done all of that and it's still not. working, I think it makes sense to to use  a drug to make someone more functional. So,

if someone goes to your uh practice, you you said  your your current practice is helping people get. off these drugs. Yeah. What does that look like?  Like, just give us the kind of typical patient who. approaches you. How long has this person been  on the drugs? Why does this person want to get. off the drugs? And how does this person get off  the drugs? Yeah. So, a typical person might be a, you know, a middle-aged a middle-aged woman who  was put on a medication during a divorce. Um,

you know, she's been on it for maybe 15 years or  so, and she's starting to notice that whatever she. does with the medications, it's not working. You  know, she, you know, she's gone up on the dose, she's maxed out, she started a new one, and  she just feels terrible. Uh she she has she. has brain fog. She has low energy and she feels  numb and and she's realized essentially that.

you know psychiatry has kind of failed her  you know that the answer to her solutions. aren't really aren't really drugs anymore. And  so she'll she'll come to us in this state and. what we do is we look at the drugs she's on.  Usually she's on several and then we'll just. start to identify which drug is causing  is most likely to be causing a problem. uh the most amount of your problems and we start  there and we slowly taper that off. Some drugs you. can taper quite quickly. Others can take years to  come off like things like benzo and SSRIs. They're.

much harder and so we'll work with patients for  several years slowly untangling the medication. uh regimen. You meeting with them very frequently  until we we ease them off. At the same time, we. introduce them to non-drug approaches to managing  their mental health. If they need to do dietary. uh modifications, you know, lifestyle changes, if  they need to learn some um uh uh sleep, if we need. to look at some of the substances that they're  using, we'll we'll use all of our non-drug tools.

while we're bringing them off the medications. How  long does it take to taper off the drug itself? So if you've been on these medications for several  years, most people are coming off at around 18 to. 24 months. Wow. Yeah. So this this is what I see.  And I want to give a bit of nuance here. There's. it's hard to know why it's so hard  for some people to come off. I mean,

there are some people, and for reasons I don't  understand, their brains are really elastic. They might be able to come off a drug that they've  been on for years really quickly. They have awful. withdrawal for for a couple of months and then  they kind of they come back together. But then. there's another group of people that when they  try that the suffering doesn't end and it's just. it's brutal and the withdrawal doesn't go away  and then they have to come back on and for them. it can take them years to come off. Currently I  have no real way of predicting who is going to.

have an easy withdrawal and who's going to have a  difficult withdraw. It's not related to age, sex, health. Not in a way that fully accounts for the  variability. Like in general, young people have. an easier go. In general, people who have been  on the drug for a shorter period of time. Um, it kind of skews things, but I I've also seen  young people who have been on the drug for for. not that long have a hell of a time coming off as  well. And so it is it's hard for me to predict,

but because I've worked with so many people who  have developed this essentially this brain injury. called protracted withdrawal, the way I've come  to think about this is everyone needs to come off. um the medications gradually in a way that doesn't  trigger severe withdrawal. That that's kind of the. measure. You know, you do like a 10% reduction,  you see how they go. Okay, you're fine. We do. another one. But once they start to develop severe  withdrawal, I then slow it down and I do smaller. and smaller reductions to get them completely  off um so without severe withdrawal so they're.

not at risk of this um neurological injury called  protracted withdrawal and they're able to work and. they're able to fulfill their household duties  and all of that. That's that's that's the way. it should be done. So someone remains functional  uh while the taper is going on. How do they feel. when they're off, when they're finally done? A lot  of them feel great, especially if they've because.

people come to me because they're dealing with  side effects. You know, the the drugs are actively. harming them. They feel foggy and fatigued and  then to have that monkey off their back. They're. not dealing with the side effects, but then they  also have that, you know, the the self-esteem. issues. You some people, you know, they they just  go, I'm not broken. I don't I don't want to be on. a drug. I don't believe there's anything wrong  with me. So, they love that. They love that they. can go and travel and they don't need to worry  about losing a prescription or the prescription.

being stolen um from them and they love not having  to line up um at the pharmacy. They they love. not having to worry about um the long-term side  effects of these medications um on their brain. And so, many people are really happy. How does  being on SSRIs affect people's relationships? So, the question, yeah, I mean, it's it's  a question really about how does emotional.

blunting affect your ability to connect with  with one another. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you just. answered the question. Yeah. And so there's there  is a Facebook group um out there called Marriage. is Destroyed by SSRIs that I think it has like  nearly 5,000 people in there. And the stories. you hear there are that you know we were in a  relationship, my spouse was you know depressed, they got put on a medication and um so in some  instances they'll say that the person became.

emotionally distant. They stopped being intuitive  about their partner. they stopped recognizing um. that there were issues going on and and and they  became kind of uh harsh and and neglectful. And so. um I think it can get in the way of empathy. And  this was I mean this is a funny story actually cuz. my wife and I we both tried Zoloft. We got it from  a friend of ours when we were in our residency.

because I wanted to see what it was like these  medications. So, I was prescribing them to people. Depends on how they ask me. No, this is an SSRI.  Okay. Yeah. So, I So, I took an SSRI cuz I just. wanted to see what it was like. Um, and she hated  me when I was on Zoloft. She did? Why? Well, she. felt like I didn't really care about her anymore.  Like, she would, you know, we'd be having uh like,

you know, I mean, she'd be upset about something.  I don't know. the kitchen was dirty and I I'd left. a mess and she'd be talking to me and I'd just be  like so zoned out, not caring about her emotions, emotionless, not aware, not being able to  intuitit things because in the past, like. if I walked into the house and I could pick up  that she was upset and walk over to her and say, "Hey, you know, what's going on? I I can I can't  I I sense something is is wrong. Let's talk about. it." That went away. that that ability to kind  of detect, you know, subtle kind of emotional.

changes in her went away and she hated that. Um,  how long were you on it? I think 2 to 3 weeks and. then that I mean that was enough of an experience  to kind of feel what that was like. Um, and so so. you took it because you're going to be prescribing  it and you wanted to know what it was. Yeah. And. my professors made me feel like this was like the  biggest lunatic idea ever. Seriously? Yeah. Yeah.

They was like, "These are serious medications. You  shouldn't be taking them." But I was just like, "I. I need to know what this experience is like if I'm  going to prescribe." Empathy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I've taken several psychiatric medications  because I think it's really important that I know. what they feel like. Yes. I agree. What else have  you taken? I've taken like uh metazipene. I've. taken trazadone. I've t What are those? Oh, these  are anti-depressants and sedatives and I've taken. benzodiasipines. Um like um What do you think of  those? Uh they made me worse to be honest. The the.

benzo were actually prescribed to me cuz after and  this is crazy cuz I'm a drug side effect guy that. this happened to me. After my life is wild. Yeah.  So after my daughter was born, I had just started. working at the FDA and you know I was a clinician.  That's what I was used to. And all of a sudden I. was a drug regulator doing reports every day.  And that was really stressful to to have a new. kid and have a new job. And um I was also totally  overdoing it on stimulants. Like I was drinking a.

large cup of coffee in the morning, two diet cokes  during the day. I was probably packing like, you. know, five Zins in my mouth throughout the day.  You could First of all, Zins are only for rectal. use. I don't know if you knew that. You should be  using ALP. Should be using the AL. Okay. Sorry. Excuse me. Yeah. Um, and so my sleep deteriorated.  Um, I was having a really hard time sleeping just. with all of the pressure and my daughter waking  up in the middle of the night. So, so I got a. script for Xanax from a nurse practitioner and  I would just take it once a night and then very.

soon it became every other night and then very  soon it became every night. And um, it slowly. wore off and I started to become more anxious  over time. And this is what happens with benzo. I would be sitting there trying to concentrate on  my reports and I'd be getting obsessive thoughts. about embarrassing things that had happened  in the past. I mean, it was like torturous. Like just like they would just spring into my  mind. Um, and thankfully I had the foresight to. realize that the drug was actually making me  more anxious. Yes. And I see this with a lot.

of my patients. I was able to come off fairly  quickly. Not many many people aren't. But that. experience really taught me about how how easy it  is for these drugs to make you worse. And I mean, if I didn't know what I was doing and I wasn't  interested in drug side effects, I could have gone. in to see a doctor and they would have said, "Oh,  you've developed an anxiety disorder. You know, here's some Zoloft." And then you get on this  prescribing cascade where you got started on.

one drug, you had a side effect, and then you get  started on another one, and before you know it, you you're taking multiple meds. So you say  you would go into a doctor and tell them this, but now postco there's something called tellaalth  and my impression is that the bar has dropped. maybe what it tell what is tellahalth and how has  it affected this business? Yeah, I mean tellahalth.

is essentially being able to get medicines  virtually sometimes without even seeing a. clinician and it has essentially just exacerbated  all the worst parts about the American healthcare. system. I recently did an investigation on a  company I think it was it's called him the female. version is for hers. These are essentially online  teley health companies that sell lifestyle drugs, things like finasteride for male patent baldness.  Uh but they also sell anti-depressants. And when I.

went through their But they're drug sellers. They  don't do orthopedic surgery or anything. They're. drug sellers. Yeah. They they they are they like a  Silicon Valley startup um to essentially just just. make it really easy to get certain drugs. And I  was obviously horrified about this because I think. psychiatric drugs are massively overprescribed.  And so I wanted to investigate what the oversight. was like. And I essentially I ended up signing up  to make an account. I filled out a questionnaire.

I I supposedly spoke with a nurse practitioner on  a chat, which could have just been boilerplate AI. generated text. They diagnosed me with depression  and then they sent me Lexapro in the mail three. days later and I never even saw anyone and then  there was just like a little hyperlink that said. click here to learn about the side effects. I  videotaped the whole thing and I put it on my. YouTube channel but that is awful. I mean that is  not the kind of care that you would ever want for.

someone that that you love. I mean that's not  care. No, it's not care. It's drug dispensing. It's it's drug dispensing and just milking  insurance because you can just or it's you. can just you know the person pays you 150 bucks  a month or whatever it is and you just keep on. sending them you know SSRI without really trying  to help them at all. Um, and remember these are.

the drugs that cause PSSD and can cause homicide,  homicidal behavior, and can cause brain injury. when people try and come off of them. And no one  is even sitting with them to say, "Hey, I really. need to make sure that you understand what you're  getting into. I really need to make sure that you. understand that there are alternatives for this  that are safer. uh these companies have just like, you know, there's there's like a PDF that you  could read on the way to like the checkout. page and they're just like, "Okay, our job is done  here." But what's wild is after, you know, an hour.

and a half of telling me uh and I think making  an airtight case that these drugs are really. dangerous and are grossly overprescribed. You're  describing changes to the system that make it. easier that guarantee their use is more widespread  and less regulated and less oversight and less. actual care. I mean, it's kind of weird that  the evidence is in. It sounds like this is very. serious. Mhm. But not only are we not clamping  down, we're making it easier for people to get.

it. Yeah. Yeah, we are. What did um something just  happened? And I don't fully understand it. In the. state of Illinois, Governor JB Pritsker, who wants  to run for president, Democrat, signed a bill that. brings some of this into the schools. Tell us what  that is. So, it was a bill mandating uh mental. health screening uh for children as young as third  grade uh in the state of Illinois. And so this.

was in response to statistics showing that mental  health is worsening in the state, which are true, of course. And so they their response was,  well, we need to get into the classroom and. we need to make these kids fill out uh mental  health screeners to to see if they have anxiety. or to see if they have depression. Um with the  goal that that is going to improve mental health. outcomes because if you detect it, you can treat  it. Um, now why I think this is the dumbest law.

ever and it's going to lead to more problems is  our mental health care system is so dysfunctional. Like screening is not a bad thing. You know, no  knowing that someone is depressed or anxious that. that's not inherently bad. I mean, we want to help  people. Yes. But what is going to happen with a. law like this is it's going to end up just scaring  parents. They're going to be said, "Oh, you know, your kid has anxiety and depression. and you  should get that taken care of before they start.

becoming suicidal. They will go into a mental  health care system which is already broken, highly. transactional. Um where doctors will have limited  facetime and will lean on prescribing u medic. medications. Um I'm all for screening but not when  the mental health care system is dysfunctional. Just funneling people into a broken system.  But why? So they're targeting kids for this? Yeah. Did anyone say anything about it? No. Not  this. This just seems to be going ahead as if it's.

the greatest thing ever. But the irony is that the  people who I mean there are all kinds of people. grandstanding about quote mental health. Like and  they're all the same people who are pushing drugs. that degrade mental health and hurt people. Have  you noticed this? Yes. People stand up like I do. We have a mental health crisis in this country.  Yes. I couldn't agree more, but those people. seem totally uninterested in fixing it. They  seem to be intent on making it worse. I mean,

it's it's it's grandstanding. I mean, that that is  what it is. It is, you know, talking about mental. health and being an advocate for mental health is  one of the, you know, it's this this, you know, this, you know, this morally righteous thing to do  and people want to jump on that bandwagon and and. this seems like, oh, this is like, you know, this  is a good thing for me to be doing. I'm such a. good person, not understanding that the downstream  effects can be really harmful. It's like advocates.

for the homeless. More of those we have, the more  homeless we have. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, last question. Um, you do this for a living  and I I think unusually for a psychiatrist, you seem to really care about the outcome  and whether people are thriving or not, which is supposed to be the goal of the business  is to help people thrive. What advice would you. give to people who are anxious or depressed or sad  or are struggling with what we call mental health?

like what are the ways to restore happiness and  vigor to a human life? I would say I think a. lot of mental health comes down to three things. I  think it comes down to your relationships. I think. it comes down to your purpose and what you do. And  I think it comes down to your physical health. And. so I would want the person to audit their life.  What how am I doing in these three areas? and to.

treat the root causes. You know, don't let someone  tell you you have a chemical imbalance. If if you. if you look at your life and you're, you know,  you're you know, you're using drugs that that can, you know, mess with your chemistry, address that.  If you're eating foods that uh you know, if if. you have like pre-diabetes or or um and because  your your diet is off, you know, fix your diet, get moving, get in the sun, do the things that  our bodies are naturally designed to do. So, so. work on your health and then just think about the  next thing that needs to be addressed. You know,

are you having problems with loneliness and  relationships? You can find people that that. can help you with that problem. Not not like a  [ __ ] therapist, but someone that actually has a. track record of helping with your relationships  or helping with connections. If you're having. difficulty at work, you can find coaches that  actually have a track record of helping you find. more meaning in in your work as well. And so what  I tell people is that there's no don't believe the. story that there is this magic pill that is going  to fix pretty much the most complicated issues in.

your life. You know, your ability to connect, your  ability to find meaning and purpose, you know, your your health. There's no magic pill for that.  These things are cultivated over decades with uh. you know, attention and effort. They're the most  important things in your life. Just start start. somewhere. Are you um confident that AI therapy  will help people's mental health? Why are you.

laughing? This is the new frontier. I believe it's  very well funded. Yeah. Um that is so disturbing. because I feel like AI therapy is like the most  like it just it it doesn't give you like it it. just affirms what you put into it as well. It's  just like oh yeah that's so hard, that's so rough. That must feel so bad. It's It's I don't know.  It's It's totally disturbing and like dystopian. Yeah. Yeah. It talk to the machine. That's worse  than talk to the hand. Yeah. Yeah. But it affirms.

what you put into it. Can you flesh it out a  little bit? Well, let's say you are, you know, you have a conflict with like your spouse. Oh my  god, I was so frustrated that, you know, they did. this and that. It could just say, "Yeah, that must  be, you know, that must just be so frustrating. But isn't that Isn't what we're supposed to do is  affirm people in their beliefs? No, we need a No, no, you sound mean. Yeah, I'm I am I am I am mean,  but that's that's what you need. You you need,

you know, you you almost need that paternal  energy in there where someone is is going to. hold your feet to the fire and make you you know,  push you, make you grow, kind of encourage you to. get outside of your comfort zone. You don't need  that that affirming energy. So, it's not helpful. to say yes, you are a shitty person and that's  okay. Not all the time. Yeah. Yeah. How uh how.

unpopular are you among other psychiatrists? Yeah.  Yeah. I'm unpopular amongst other psychiatrists. and also in the media. I'm a I'm a dangerous  person. Why? Yeah. because I'm scaring people. away from life-saving drugs and I'm stigmatizing  them because I have a message that mental illness. is much more than just chemicals in the brain and  that there are other non-drug approaches that can. be helpful and that's bad. That is bad. So, anyone  who says your problems are more complicated than a.

single pill can solve, that person is dangerous.  Yeah. Yeah. That person is dangerous. The person. doesn't get it. Um, and um, they're making people  with mental illness feel bad about themselves. because gosh, you should just let them accept that  they have a broken brain and there's nothing they. can do about it. And to encourage them to look at  it otherwise is just to to harm them, you know, it's it's to make them feel bad about something  that they can't change. Boy, that's that's the.

crulest approach I can imagine to human suffering.  I mean, if you took that approach to cancer, what would that look like? You've got cancer  and here comes Dr. Ysef saying, "Actually, I I could help you take the tumor out." And  then a bunch of screechy ladies are like, "That's mean." Yeah. You got to affirm the  person's cancer. Affirm that cancer. Yeah. Yeah. I I really I hope this uh interview is not  throttled. I really appreciate your bravery.

and your directness and your very obvious  compassion and empathy. I don't think you. were a mean person. Obviously, you didn't go  into this to hurt people. Clearly. Yeah. So, thank you. Thank you for having me. [Music] So,  it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this. show. On one level, that's not surprising. That's  what they do. But on another level, it's shocking. With everything that's going on in the world right  now, all the change taking place in our economy.

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