Owen Benjamin: Daily Wire Betrayal, Conspiracy Theories, Nick Fuentes and the Dark Side of Hollywood

Oh, and Benjamin, thank you for doing  this. Thank you for coming all this way. I've interviewed I don't know how many people  who've been cancelled. I had a whole franchise. interviewing people who've been cancelled. Um,  kind of over it except in your case. You have. the most amazing cancellation story. Both because  you were, I think, the really the first big name, the first blue check on Twitter to get kicked off  Twitter, but also because of what happened after. So, I know this is probably tedious for you, but  it's I think really interesting for others. If.

you could just go through what happened, where  you were in your life, how that life ended, and what happened next. Yeah. And thanks for  having me. This has been a blast. Thank you. Me, too. So, I was doing uh comedy in Los Angeles.  Like, I started as a piano player. My dad sang. opera. He taught rhetoric, you know, like  just basically how to speak in a way that's. interesting to people. You were a piano player?  Yeah, I started when I was like 2 or 3 years old. And I I still teach piano, like classical piano.  Wow. Not jazz piano. Not jazz piano. No, that's.

that's unspeakable. I have a jazz uh friend who's  really into jazz and I'm like, why do you enjoy. breaking the rules that make things beautiful?  It's a funny relationship, but and so like I. think with that musical background, my mom taught  children's literature. It like kind of created a. comedian in a way that's a craft. like I wasn't,  you know, seeking fame or like a lot of comedians. can just be like kind of spilling everything on  stage like approve of me, you know, and I I was.

all about just doing that craft properly. And so  I incorporated music with it. I go to Los Angeles. I get on the show punked. I um you know, I do  Comedy Central specials. Adam Sandler puts me in. some movies. I become like a one of the leads of a  sitcom. Vince Vaughn, who I love, uh, produced it. and we went on the road together. Like, I'm having  a great, uh, time out there as a standup. As a. stand-up. Yeah. And an actor like, but more based  around my personality. Like, I'm not one of those.

I can be a a French prince guy, you know? Yeah.  Like, I can't be like, who am I today? You know, and so I'm I'm having this this life and I never  really thought about a lot of these issues. Like, I didn't think politics were anything, you know?  I just avoided all of that. I just autistically. focused on my craft. You were not in your personal  life like talking about politics at dinner. No, I was just I was just trying to do my job as best  as possible. Like I was very just job oriented. where I was just always creating and writing  and trying to do the best joke. And then I saw.

what was happening in comedy where you know the  concept of a bad word like a word carries like. uh intention right like that's insane. Like  you can't put human consciousness in an object, right? Just like a gun kills people. No, a person  kills people. You can kill someone with a minivan. filled with lollipops. You know what I mean? Yes.  Yeah. Exactly. And so the idea that a word without. intention is wrong or that a group can't be made  fun of was so twisted, but I was just kind of.

rolling with it because comedy for me is a way to  discharge stress. Yes. Like if you avoid a group, that's actually very cruel. You know, comedy is  a pressure relief valve. Yes. Yeah. Like people. build up trauma in their life and the joke allows  you with the laughter to look at it and deal with. it, right? Versus like I'm not a like I'm not a  tear you down comedian. It might sound like it, but it's more like it's more like a way to help  someone see something like like relationship like.

help them communicate or help all this stuff.  And so I took it very seriously. Ironically, I took comedy very seriously where I would  I would try and help a couple, you know, by doing relationship jokes and then they  get along better and then they, you know, I had this very loyal people because of that,  you know. I was never like, I want to humiliate. you. Right. Right. And so when I was a heckler  Renaissance Festival in high school, that was. my job. What is it? What does that even mean?  I was the dude in the stocks and I would make.

fun of people and they'd pay to throw tomatoes at  me. Actually, nine hours a day. Yeah. and a gypsy. would take the money. And I and I learned that  you don't attack based on what I believe. It's. what where their pride is. You were paid to be a  heckler at the Renaissance Festival. Yeah. Like. you know at Renaissance fairs you have like the  prisoner in the stocks and he's like just making. fun of people and that was me. That was like my  job. Did people actually hit you with tomatoes? Yeah. But if I got them properly mentally they  couldn't aim properly. They throw into the ground.

It was really interesting. And so like a really  really fat guy you don't call fat. He doesn't. care. It's like a guy like me who eats too many  cookies because he has four kids. Like I'd spiral, right? It's like it's like where the pride is.  So totally agree. Yeah. Like if someone's like if. someone made fun of me for my pants not being like  designer enough, I'd be like you're gay, right? Like I wouldn't even care. But like if they made  fun of the things that I have like issues with, you know, and so I would look at people and I  try that all the time. I try to find their pride,

right? Yes. And so that even though I could be a  little harsh, it was actually good for them. And. so I'd get a bigger crowd than the the joust. Like  that was always my goal. You know, the joust that. have this joust going and I'm like, I got to beat  that joust. Cuz it became this show where like cuz. I wouldn't attack women. I just overly compliment  women cuz that would be the way to get the guy. Yes. Yeah. Cuz you don't just you never attack a  woman. It's like, "Oh, your wife is so beautiful. Like are you at work all day?" Right. And and so  she's having fun with the tomatoes. He has to get.

it, you know, and I do it to everyone so they  knew it wasn't personal, right? And that's why. I have to make fun of every identity. Like when  they say you can't make fun of black people or. Jewish people or whatever, I'm like then I can't  make fun of Muslims or Christians. Like I I have. to have everyone or else I'm a mercenary. Yeah.  Because you believe in universal principles. Is. that Exactly. Yeah. And it's like I I can't show  favoritism. And ironically, that's how I I believe. it's very cruel to do that. Like where it's, you  know, like I I would come up with like veteran.

jokes for my veteran friends or like wheelchair  jokes for my wheelchair. It's like if not they're. like subhuman. It's like, "Oh, don't say anything  to him. He can't handle it, right?" Like I would. feel horrible if someone was imagine if all the  guys were riffing and they're like, "Don't make. fun of Owen. He's like very weak and dumb." And  you're like, "What? No, you can make fun of me.". And so I'm from like the honor culture of like you  make fun of weakness and you get stronger and you. build. Yeah. I am too. So I saw that happening  in LA and it it was it was Obama's second term.

I think something happens second term when people  double down. I agree. Right. I've noticed. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When they're like they're just ghost  riding. And I'm like at that point you can either. be like this didn't turn out the way we thought  or they're like they just tunnel vision and become. insane. I saw that with the left in Hollywood  then. Right. And you can kind of see that. happening now. Yeah. Kind of right where you're  like, uh, remember that whole Epstein thing, the war thing, and people are just like, no, this  is even better. That was the Obama thing when, you.

know, at first it was like, oh, this guy's going  to stop racism and he's so peaceful, right? And. then when that wasn't the thing, they'd be like,  the word family is a slur, you know, and I saw. that. But I was uh even in your world, even among  comics, you saw that? Yeah. I would see the same. Okay. like Sarah Silverman that became this like  super intense. She used to have this hilarious. joke. She goes, "I saw the movie 300." It was how  gay it was out of 10. Like funny, right? Imagine.

her doing that. Like all of a sudden those people  like all those hardcore liberal types, they they. were once somewhat funny. And then boom, it was  all gone. Everything's serious. Everything's about. victim consciousness. And I was like, "This what's  funny about?" And then I saw this one special. where this girl was just talking about like  being raped and there she was like she was like. I was raped and people are laughing. She's like  don't laugh. I'm like dude this is nuts, right? Like you want to give victims relief, you know?  Exact. Like that's not helping victim, you know?

It's important to know that whatever you're going  through is pretty common because we're all people. Exactly. And so when you when someone is really  distressed, it's helpful to say to that or when. you're really distressed, it's helpful for someone  to say, you know, I've been through this. I know. someone's been through it. Like people go through  this like it's going to be fine or not. You're. going to go to heaven in the end or whatever. But  to put their suffering in perspective is relief. for them. That's what how to spoil a wizard.  It's like one of the main things is isolation. Like you're the only one thinking it. Yeah. And so  that's the role of the comedian is like, you know,

like the fight between a man and a woman where  she had a bad dream about you, right? Like stuff. like that, you know? It's like they'll laugh.  Wait, that's happened to other people, right? Exactly. Exactly. You cheated on me in my dream.  I was laughing with C. Uh I was tweet laugh like. we're just going back and forth with Candace Owens  about that when everyone was freaking out about. her dream. I'm like do they not know women have  dreams and take them very seriously? That's every. woman. I know. I have dreams about like spiders  and clouds and stuff like they have like these.

specific dreams. Oh, I know. And they carry over  into the day. Oh yeah. So anyway, like um but then. what happened with me like when I took the jester  hat off and I'd never done that because I was. always seen as like the likable guy that you could  parachute in with any culture and I'd fit in and. make them laugh and stuff was the trans kid thing.  Like that's when I snapped out of that whole thing. cuz I was always more like libertarian looking at  at gay stuff and you know even like abortion. I.

I never really thought about it. I was just like,  "Oh, yeah. If somebody's like raped, like, who are. you to, you know, I just didn't I never I'd never  gotten anyone pregnant. I never thought about. it." And I just couldn't believe that somebody  would lie about that, right? Like that's crazy. Yeah. And so saying a kid is trans was like I was  like, "What?" It was like a nightmare. I was like, "No, this is like a nightmare." Like a kid can't  consent to anything and trans implies sexuality,

you know? I'm like, I play classical music and  I own a pink shirt. Like, am I a girl? You know, right? So, I'm like, so what exactly is a girl?  I'm like, so you're talking about like sexuality. in a way, right? Like, you are a girl with female  genitals now. And so, as that started unfolding, I. start I go to Twitter and I'm repa, you know, I'm  like I was like in those worlds. I was hosting, you know, award shows that honoring DiCaprio  and like I was in that realm. Yes, it's a pretty.

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three months for free at hallow.com/tucker.  It is absolutely the best. I wasn't like. uh like a celebrity, but I my picture was on the  wall next to Chris Rocks. I was seen as like a. strong craftsman at comedy, you know. I was  writing sitcoms. I was a writer and you know, and I was like, "Guys, this is actually like super  evil." And I so publicly I'm just like this one. guy guys this is super evil this one guy that was  on NPR he was like saying he was saying her about. his like 5-year-old and I started be and so he  was like people knew him and stuff and I just.

started writing to him I'm like like publicly  I'm like dude you're totally abusing your kid. right like that's abuse and then I just start  going I I get tunnel vision right I'm just like. and so that started this whole thing I had oh I  forgot to tell you I'd already left LA cuz I had. uh a child and I wanted to be around family and  my brother lived in Sarinac Lake and I I just I. knew I could I could do it there. I didn't need to  be in a city. I didn't want to be in a place with.

dead people on the street, you know? I'm like and  so I was still at CIA. I was still getting deals. and working on stuff. But I'm sure you know, you  see the world differently when you actually live. in real America. Oh, totally different. You know,  like, oh man, like seeing like the vet that's. actually fought the war and to see the people on  the fentel, you know what I mean? It's like it's. a totally different experience. It's like the It's  like the the Buddha first leaving the castle and. seeing the Yeah, I literally felt that way. You  know, in Hollywood, you just don't see it. They're.

just like And then you're like, "Dude, no. We need  guns to like kill a coyote that just killed my. chickens." Like, you don't know what a chicken is,  do you? No. It doesn't begin life as a nugget. No, they think, dude, people don't know where onions  come from. It's insane, dude. That Don't even. get me started. So anyway, so I'm there and so I  start this all starts happening and I I had like. college tours booked, you know, I was about to do  Yukon and looking back it's you're way overpaid. for that stuff. Like I now realize that the it's  funny money coming from strange places. But like.

um they my agent at CA was like they just  canled and the next one just canceled and they. said because I'm a man of hate, right? Because of  the trans kid thing. And on Twitter? Uh just from. Twitter. Yeah. And so then my agent drops me. Uh  so your agent dropped you? No, I I was no longer. at CA. My manager also dropped me. Everyone just  starts alienating themselves from How did they. explain that decision? Well, I will shout out my  manager. He was the one guy that didn't moralize.

it. He was just like, "Buddy, I don't know what  to do, man. Like all these guys are calling me.". I'm like, "Okay." Versus like, "What you've done  is just so evil." I'm like, "Bro, I've seen you. do ketamine on a toilet. like like you're not  going to judge me, man. And I'm like, kids are. innocent. Like I know children are innocent. Same  with the abortion thing. As soon as my wife her. belly started growing, I'm like, "Oh my god."  I'm like, "That's a life, man." Right. Yes. So,

so all all these things starts changing and so  uh I'm like, "Okay." You know, I'm Wait, did you. actually get a moral lecture from a CIA agent? I  got it from like all these people. Like people, I won't even say any names cuz I just like to  avoid that stuff, but people are texting me like, "What did you do?" Cuz people in like writer rooms  in like high up circles are like basically saying. like, "Owen's out." Like it was like boom boom  boom. Like people that I've been in their wedding. where I had to wear a freaking yarmaka to be at  the wedding or calling me a man of hate, right?

And I'm like guys, it's me. And I thought it was  this horrible misunderstanding. And so some people. uh I actually got a lot of support even from a lot  of like the neocon uh type. And so that's like so. that kind of tribe picked me up, you know, like  the Dennis Prager and all those guys. But you must. have felt like your life was falling apart and it  was falling apart. But the irony though, and this. is the theme of the whole thing is I'm with my  brother. I'm doing tree work like like a veteran. that had like you know killed a lot of people was  like we called it treehab cuz he got off opiates.

like doing hard work you know like toiling as we  were talking about and uh and my life is actually. going great but I still think it's going horrible  right like I'm feeling you know I we just got a. chicken like I can't believe like my son like  I'm looking at this miracle me and my wife are. close but yet I've lost everything. And that's  such a spell, right? Like, think about it. Like,

think about people that have had horrible thoughts  of like, you know, like despair. I've lost. everything, but it's like dollars, right? I know  that's that sucks, but breath, taste, your love, like you've lost nothing. You know what I mean?  And so the the dead wood just started burning. and all the and out of nowhere, like I thought  I was, you know, dying on a hill and all these. people just came and supported, right? And I was  like, "Wow." And so I start I still tour and I. start renting theaters. I'm like, "I don't need  anyone to book my theaters," you know? I'm like,

"Let's do this." And then they started all  cancelling independent theaters. Independent. theaters. So this is what So it was like, "Oh,  the free market." I was like, "Oh no, like I can. sell out. I have I've never been accused of a  misdemeanor." Right? Like what did I the trans. kid thing, but it like the word had went out like  you got to start going at this dude's pocketbook. And so now I'm like I'm working more with the  neocon types because they're willing to ask you. a question. Who do you I mean this is an organized  effort against you. Yeah, absolutely. This is not.

organic. Who was organizing it? Do you know? I  mean I have some theories, but you don't you don't. actually know for sure. I know the motivations.  Every time I think I know for sure it switches. a little. So now I try to not it's not because  I'm like worried to say. I can't really figure. it out. It's almost like a swarm. Yes. It's like  a behavior where they're signaling. That sounds. even crazier, but No, I've seen it. I It's like  a It's like a like a a behavior like a fractal.

Yes. And there's no one really in charge, right?  It's like a conspiracy of like-minded temperament. Cuz like from my background, I'm like, "Who did  this to me?" Yes. There's no one there because. who would really do that? It's like a collective  evil. Yes. and everyone's just doing their little. thing with their behavior and it's all based on  these spells. And so it took me a little while. to figure that out because at first I'm like it's  the Democrats and then it's like oh it's the this. that it's I went through the Muslim thing. All  the Muslims. Yeah. China. It's CC. Oh yeah, man.

It's these damn Chinese people that made my phone.  You know, I'm like all these contradictions. And. then I realized, you know, it's like it's the  Jews, but I know this cool Jew, right? And then. I had to come up with a term called deli Jews.  You know, the one that take all the blame even. though they're like nice and they're just kind of  complaining about their broken air conditioner, you know? I'm like, who is it? And then I'm like,  it's a behavior. It's a spirit. It got me much. more like actually faithful. Yes. You know what  I mean? Cuz I was like, I don't have conventional.

ways of describing this. So then I start working  with more the the traditional conservative types. Are you melting down emotionally at this point? I  mean, you you moved to LA from upstate New York. I have a huge chip on my shoulder and I'm very  defensive. Yes. Yeah. So, I'm like looking back. the things that I would change. I don't want  to change anything cuz it all led to this to. that to that. But like if it was me now, uh I I  would know that I wasn't in the danger I thought.

I was and people weren't actually as threatening  cuz I would see people as like a threat to me. like you're trying to destroy me because and so  I would react I would react emotionally and react. more like personally and now I'm just like dude  that's when the the power of forgiveness stuff is. so real where you're like oh man like that sucks  where you're at you know yes and so that is my. that was me melting down where it was like where  it was like emotional yes but looking back it.

doesn't I'm never like we have to kill people or  none of that stuff like zero I wasn't like I was. getting less into alcohol. Like I was it was like  because I felt like it was a weakness like cuz. it cuz the Hollywood uh in my hometown like the  culture is just you just drink to land the plane, you know? Yeah. And now I'm doing these live  streams and I realized that cuz I was always like. a happy drink guy. Like I wasn't the dark drinker  guy. I was always like my first special was called. High Five Till It Hurts, right? I was that guy.  Yeah. But like I could tell that it would make me.

a little less aware of what I'm doing and that  I could feel like shame after from like going. off too hard on someone. They could like use that  emotion. And so I actually start my personal life. is getting better, which was crazy. But it looks  like I'm losing everything at the same time. And. so now I'm on like this genuine truth journey.  And I'm, you know, I'm really thinking about. did I lose Jester's privilege because I took the  trans thing so seriously? But now I'm taking a lot.

I'm like guys like family as well like like this  is crazy the way this is going. I see, you know, the Sackler family I call out. I got a strike  for hate speech because of that. The Sackler. family who owned Purdue Pharma, the right back  then before the Netflix special. People didn't. know cuz I'm the who guy. Who's doing it? And  my friend, you know that vet I told you about. died. And it was like so sad. How? Opiates,  you know, despair. It's despair is the is the. sin. Despair is that's why like there's people  I'll go at. I'm like, if you spread despair,

you're basically poisoning people, you know? And  uh and so that is such a a wise thing. I've done. a lot of despair spreading and I and I regret. Oh,  me too. Yeah. But see, telling the truth can come. off as despair, but it's still good. Like I like  when you do this stuff about who's doing what and. what's going on. Yeah. But I I think it can be  too much. I mean, it bums me out. So I you know, we're commanded not to despair. Exly. Exactly.  there that that's when like that uh principle.

like those fundamentals kick in where there's been  times where I'm like but I know like despair is. a sin like that's like spitting in the face of a  gift, right? Yes. And it's like cuz that's how I. feel about suicide. I'm like that's the greatest  like that's so awful. It's like it's like you're. created you're given all of this and you're just  getting rid of it. Like it's like someone like. your wife making you a beautiful dinner and  you're just like like that would be insane, right? It's the same impulse though. Yeah. So, you  get mad and you smash something. Smash something.

Yeah. You're like, I don't want it. It's like,  no, it's a gift. It's beautiful. And that comes. from like shame and all this stuff, you know? So,  so I'm I'm figuring all this stuff out. And then, cuz the trans kid thing was why a lot of these  neocon types gravitate towards me. And then I. was like, "Guys, you're never going to guess  where the pharmaceutical company is. It's this. little country called Israel, right?" And they're  like, "Yeah, it doesn't really matter where it. is." And I'm like, "What's going on, guys?" cuz  I didn't even know what the deal was. I'm like,

who cares? You know, it's like what why does  that matter? Like, we can't talk about that. And then I'm like, oh, you guys have your own  little spells you're doing. Cost of living. is already making it hard to live here and  it's not getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse. And a lot of Americans  fill the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy. dinners, but to cover things like groceries and  bills. That is a disaster. It's understandable, but don't go down that road because there is a tax  in effect, a survival tax of 20% interest or more.

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without truth. Like I would lose the tether to my  job. Yes. You know, like even without I was never. like, "Look at me. I'm saving the children."  Like I was like, "If I don't stay in reality, I can't bounce the joke off of anything and I will  crumble and be humiliated." Yes, that's true. I've. seen it over and over again. That's why you got  to stay grounded because like fame and money, it's just energy, right? It's not good or bad.  It's just energy. And if you don't ground that, like people go absolutely insane. It's like, you  know, you've seen that over and over and over.

again in Hollywood. Like, you'll see these funny  comics, they'll get these huge amounts of money, they get in debt. Debt's like the major thing. And  then that's what makes them a slave because Wait, they get a huge amount of money, but they also  get in debt. Exactly. Like let's say you get um a. million dollar uh they would get like a $8 million  house with the mortgage and so then they feel they. have to go along with all these evil things  or else they'll lose everything because I kept.

seeing it cuz I'm like I know they're not wicked.  You know there's a difference between sin and. wickedness like like weakness which we all have  cookies emotions and I'm with you. Yeah. cookies. and emotions actually nicely put. Yeah. And like  wickedness is the hatred of beauty. Like wanting. to destroy innocence, blow up a dome, right?  Like that's wicked where you're like you hate God. versus like, man, I got hammered and just freaked  out again. You know, that's different cuz you know.

what is true and false. Yes. So to lose the tether  of what is true and false is to like go it's like. the callous like where you don't feel the spirit  anymore. And that to me was my nightmare. So I'm. like, I can't do that. So that's why I left the my  brother's town because I do this big big special. Everyone's pumped. All the locals are like, man,  this is epic. We can do comedy right here. But. it was like 900 people in the town. My special  had like a thousand. So that's very intimidating. to local principalities, right? Oh yeah. And I'm  like, guys, I don't And so one per one lady wanted.

me to apologize for a joke and I wouldn't do it.  And and people are like, my brother's friends are. like, "Come on, man. Just apologize." Like, you  know, and I I get it. Like, when you're like an. alpha male in a region, it's like, "Come on,  like, keep everyone happy." Of course. And I. totally understand that. I'm like, "Guys, I can't  apologize though because I'm not sorry." And and. and I I'm like, you know, I'm not stubborn. Like,  I'll roll with anything. But like, then my apology.

doesn't mean anything. And I need that. Yes. Like,  if I apologize, I am sorry, which I do do. But if. I'm not sorry, then that's that's a form of usery  and then it doesn't mean anything, right? Like. I love that I can tell my wife I'm sorry and she  knows like if she doesn't believe me then my life. spirals, you know, and so and so at that point,  so we had to leave that that town and it was. more just like a mercy, you I'm like, "This can't  really work cuz I was like affecting, you know,

my brother's life and and you know, and so we went  to where my my wife's family is." And so that that. worked out better cuz at that point, what is your  wife saying at this point? So she marries you, you're this on the rise successful Hollywood guy.  She has your baby and you get cancelled and then. you have to you're on your third town. Yeah. Well,  that's when you realize your wife loves you. Yes. You know, cuz you never really know as things are  going up. Yeah. So true. Yeah. It's the same with.

debt. It's like what did was it Warren Buffet or  something? When when the when the tide goes out, you see he's wearing their underpants. Yeah. And  so at that point I'm like, "Wow, you really do. love me, right?" Cuz she's ride or die. I mean,  she'll get like if she's upset, it's because of. something real, right? Like cuz I'm I'm bringing  my outdoor friends inside with a lot of PTSD, right? So, you know, and it's because they're  like yelling at you in the morning. It's not, you know what I mean? So, that that's totally  understandable. That's why we came up with outdoor. friends. Outdoor friends because I'm hanging  out with like a ton of vets at this point,

right? And they're great guys, but like, you know,  wild swings. Oh, yeah. And that's when I saw like. a psychic wound, like a moral wound. What that  looks like where where at one moment you're like, we have to like turn the Middle East to glass.  Like they're proud of their skill and then on on. another moment it's like, man, they're like just  like us. they like have families and you know and. that chasm causes so much pain and that's it does  and dude that's where that like forgiveness is so. important and you see them ping ponging back and  forth that's the pain right that's why I would.

like make fun of vets and nonvets you know a lot  of these you know people in NOS's and are like how. dare you attack our vets I'm like they're finally  laughing because I would do this thing on Veterans. Day I'd be like haven't you guys had enough you  know I'm like we give you so much. You know, I'm. like, if you really left it on the field, it would  be Memorial Day. And they're just laughing cuz. they get idolized by the people starting the wars.  Exactly. Right. And I know that in the most false.

way. Yeah. And that's me as a comedian. Anytime  people are like, man, you're like you're like so. awesome. I'm like, I I'm not I'm good at this one  thing, but I have a spotlight, so you think that, but please don't treat me like that. Like, I'm not  an idol. Cuz that's a form of punishment, too. The. pit and the pedestal. Yeah. A lot of people don't  realize that the pedestal is torturous, you know. Yeah. Don't allow any flattery in your vicinity.  Exactly. Exactly. Ever. When the Pharisees come. when they're about to kill Jesus, the the the  trick is they go, they're like, "You're such.

a good guy. You only tell the truth." Like, they  flatter him. Yeah. I mean, people tell me, "You're. the reason I had a kid." I'm like, "All praise." I  know. All praise to God. That's a protection. Yes. Because if you're the reason for the good, you're  also the reason for the bad. Fair. And it's like. we're not gods, right? So it's like that's the  road. Like that's a horrifying road. And so many. people like narcissism is that it's like truth  comes from their emotions. And that's why you're. seeing so much lying now. Can you explain that a  little more fully? Yeah. Like my motto is I might.

be wrong, but I'm not lying. Yes. It's my motto  also. Actually, I love that. Dude, one of the one. of the most amazing things I saw you do, and this  is not flatter, this is just a fact, is when you. said you were wrong about the Iraq war. Yeah.  Cuz that is it's rare though that establishes. truth is outside of you. Yes. Yeah. That's rare.  A lot of people they're like I I might be lying. but I'm not wrong. Right. Cuz they're like oh no.  It turns out that was all wrong but I was still.

right cuz it's me. Like I saw that in physics  cuz I had a physics podcast at Keltech with my. buddy who's a nuclear physicist and dark matter.  I couldn't stop laughing when I realized it. So, they have these gravitational equations and  when it wasn't matching anything, they said, "Oh, there's dark matter." And I'm like, "What's  that?" They're like, "95% of the universe you. can't see or measure and it's like most of  the gravity." And I'm like, "How do you know. it exists?" They're like, "Swear to God." They're  like, "Cuz if not, we'd be wrong." And I'm like,

"So, you can't measure it?" They're like, "No,  that dark matter, but it's there." I'm like, "How do you know?" They're like, "Cuz if not, then  this is wrong." like Vox Day who published that. He pub he did a book of breaking down the the math  of evolution is so bad because he's like one of. those super geniuses. Vox is great guy and uh and  it's so bad like the actual math of it like how. you know just read the book probability zero. It's  like it's like the like how long would it take for.

things to permeate like a mutation to permeate  to the actual population. And when you see how. completely ridiculous it is, I think they have  trauma where they're like, "Well, it can't be that. or else like I put a square on my head and brag to  everyone and I my life is a lie." Right. Like the. guy that changed your oil is actually smarter than  you, right? Oh, yes. Well, that's that's when the. shame kicks in where they're like, "I called all  these people deplorable mouth breeders. I tried to.

eliminate their population and it turns out like  they're way better at things." Yes. When I found. that out, I was like, "Wow, these guys are great,  right?" It's like, that's the difference. It's. like you might feel some pain of pride where you  have to make some phone calls, right? Because I've. been right wrong about a million things. Me, too.  But it's like, thank I like being wrong cuz I'm. like, "Oh, it's usually better than I thought."  Always. Exactly. And it's such a burden lifted. Oh, cuz you don't have to pretend. I hate when  it's out. Yeah. Cuz when something's wrong out.

there, it's like rippling out. And I'm trying  to help people not ripple it out, right? It's. almost like a disease. Yes. And you're stopping  the spread. Yeah. Stopping the spread, you know, safe and effective. Which is another claim that  they couldn't walk back because their pride hung. on it. Imagine. But the spell is safe for who  and effective at what. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. The. assumptions is how they get, you know, the more  honorbased Anglo-Saxon Germanic type cultures.

You know, it's like, well, it can't be that. No  one's that crazy. Right. Right. We don't like ask. the followup question of like it's too dark. It's  too dark. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the hood culture. which can be very funny where it's like you'll  never guess this loophole I figured out. You know, we can redefine a word and get all these free  pencils. Yeah. And it's like Yeah. But that's like. the way I like to describe it is uh there's two  ways to win a race. You either run faster or you. get the other guy slower. Yeah. Right. It's like  my house is now nice because I blew up the pretty.

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That's joy andblok.com/tucker. Use the code  Tucker. 50% off labs, 20% off supplements. Join. Blok. Get your edge back. Yeah. It's it's like the  famous Russian proverb about, you know, that the. peasants are given cows and the first thing you do  is you go kill your neighbor's cow, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's a behavior. That's why I don't  isolate it to one identity. That's why I say. like grabbler or something. Yeah. Because I see it  in all populations. Yes. I actually think it's a.

trap to say that like all evil disseminates from  one group. That that's like one of the classics, the the identity trap. Yes. Cuz I see that with  like a lot of the white guy stuff. I'm like, "No, I don't want to be defined by like we need  more of an arbitrary thing, but we're still just. going for greatness." It's like, right, like  I see that with like Yeah, it's of course, but. so many people are falling for this. It's like,  oh no, we just have to get all whites. I'm like,

no, we need all competent, good, moral, and if  there's more of one group, that's fine, right? Of course. Well, it's absurd. It's And it's And  it's exculpatory. That's why people love it cuz. it's like I'm on the winning team no matter what.  And I was telling that to one of my like I know I. have an Israeli listener and we were laughing cuz  I'm like you guys remind me of American Indian. tribes I grew up with where it's like our nation  right or wrong. I'm like that doesn't go well. No. it doesn't cuz you have to go for greatness or  else it becomes very you know you can't trust.

each other. And he was laughing. He's like it's so  true man. It's like very tribal you know. I'm like. dude all the natives I know they're all like uh  they're drinking mouthwash man. They're not doing. great. No, no, I shouldn't laugh. No, it's No,  it's true. I've been across my whole life. Like, these are like close friends of mine, some of  the best athletes in the world, and then they. just start drinking mouthwash, and I'm like,  dude. Yeah. Yeah. And that But that's despair, right? That's why Yeah. Cuz you can always get  out. And so, so you wind up with the um you're.

you're taken in by when you say the neocons,  like news organizations, websites, like Yeah. like like the like the more Daily Wired crowd and  Nolles and all and Crowder and all those guys and. I still have a soft spot for Nles. I think it's  pretty, you know, Nolles. I like Nles. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it's just the the Ben Shapiro's  eyebrows really. I mean, it's just been getting. a little intense. Very. Yeah. Are those real? I  don't think so. Yeah. Prosthetic eyebrows. I've. never heard of that. That's some dark trolling.  Yeah. No. Like, imagine just putting I mean,

he never had those eyebrows and now he has them.  Like you don't just grow eyeb more eyebrows. No. No. And the thickness of them unless there's like  some kind of propia or something on that. Unless. someone close to him was putting ro gain on his  eyebrows. That would be pretty funny though. It. wouldn't shock me. But it's the whole thing  is weird. Um so you wind up in that world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so because I was so happy  that they were willing to say the things that. Hollywood wouldn't say. Yes. Of course. Me too.  Yeah. Like seeing Crowder pray at a meal like.

blew my mind. I was like cuz I was just like so  into that gratitude cuz I love that stuff like in. Hollywood. I even texted Vaughn this morning about  uh he was the one being like have kids and he made. it funny and that really motivated me you know cuz  there's no voices in Hollywood telling people to. have kids. It's always get a bigger house, have  more sex partners, you know, get a bigger deal, have a better car. And Vince is like, "Babe,  you got to you got to start making accounts. Stop pulling out like a coward, you And I'm like,  "Okay." And then every Father's Day, I'm like,

"Dude, that was so cool you did that." Really  fun. It was fun. Convinced me to have kids. Yeah. And because it was always there. I just I like  strong paternal leaders. Like I'm not I'm not. this like hyper it's always me guy. I like teams.  I'm real big on like a guy I can look up to. Yes. And so that's why in a world without heroes, this  swarm hates heroes. They hate inspiration. That's. why they don't like architecture, right? Yes.  Because it makes you feel hope. You're like, "Oh,

wow. That's beautiful. Tomorrow will be a better  day." They're like, "Oh, we got to we got to burn. that down." You know, literally. And it's sad,  right? It's like that's why I don't It doesn't. get me angry now cuz I'm like, imagine like I see  my kids, they can have like one bouncing ball. They can have so much joy. And I I know people and  I'm sure you do too, like on a giant yacht on all. these designer drugs being praised and they're  thinking about jumping off the yacht. Yes. I.

know many people like that. And they they get and  and in their like if I was going to defend them, I would say what they're thinking is I've I've  done I've sacrificed so much. I've worked so. hard. I've humiliated myself and that dude on  a pontoon boat is so much happier. Yeah. Why? Right. And then they get mad at God. And that's  why that's that uh fractal where it's like God. is wrong. And so once I started realizing that the  grand plan is the good plan, all these like little.

things started not scaring me, you know, and I'll  have stresses and all that stuff. Little things. like being bankrupted. Yeah. No. And then like to  continue the story. So after that things got way. crazier. Really? Yeah. After you got rescued by  the Daily Wire crowd. Yeah. When I started being. like Yeah. cuz I started seeing that certain  identities can be liability shields when you're. selling opioids, you know. Yeah. And same with the  sex abuse stuff in Hollywood. I was I was pointing. out people and I didn't even put it together and  someone called me an anti-semite and I was like,

"What do you mean?" That's like I didn't even  think about that. That's why I did I did a a. whole tour called height supremacist cuz I was  trying to I was like I could do that with height, right? like oh only you know hail heitler and  stuff and and and so that comedy you're 6'8 I. should say that for people who can't tell me and  so I was like dramatizing that like I could do. that with anything like no I'm talking about the  behavior right like imagine if it's like oh you're. just mad at 510 guys no it's a behavior and so and  so that I get kicked off PayPal I get kicked off.

Airbnb like and my wife Airbnb yeah because they  want to take out your um your income Oh so you. had a rental property I had a rental cuz that cuz  I'm like a like I just keep going. Like I'm pretty. upbeat, you know? It's like, "Oh, I can't tour  now, so I'll do tree work with my brother and I'll. rent out this house and we'll fix it up and we'll  learn about construction and all this stuff." And. so I got a letter from Airbnb that that, you know,  I couldn't be on anymore because I was mocking the.

victims of sexual assault. you. The joke was, so  the Me Too movement comes out and I do a joke with. dramatic irony where I'm like, "Yeah, so I'm in  LA and I I go there's one of these parades and. I'm like, "Ladies, you might want to think of a  different slogan." And and it's like, "Well, what. what do you mean?" And so I do this long drawn  out thing and I'm like, "Pound me, too." And so. the whole joke is I think it's a pound sign. And  the joke's on me. Like I'm the dumb guy, right? Yeah. So, they said that I was mocking victims and  I'm like, "No, no, they're laughing because this.

me too thing is like using them for their agenda."  Exactly. Like I'm making fun of the wizard and the. wizards are the ones that get mad. Like the people  that hate conspiracy theorists are conspirators, right? It's so simple. It's like, man, I I'm  sorry. I just have to I just cuz I don't know. people watch these on double speed. I just want to  I want to repeat what you said cuz it's so worth. the people who hate conspiracy theories are the  conspirators. Yes. That is so good. It's so true,

too. Why else would you hate conspiracy  theories? It's like, man, this conspiracies. theorist. I'm like, you wouldn't happen to  be currently doing a conspiracy, would you? I don't know why that's never occurred to me. This  the IQ gap is becoming It's not even IQ. I'm just. always around kids and animals. So am I. Well,  animals at this point. That's so so I'm sorry. I keep interrupting you. So no, I love it. So um  how long did you remain in that world in the Daily.

Wire adjacent world? Well, I was like writing for  Crowder for a while and yeah, it was more like. they would start getting weird with me when I'd  ask questions about why we're not hanging on the. moon. I'd love to go up there one day. You know,  it's like those things cuz I realized that it was. that's their sacred cow, you know? So, Hollywood  has abortion and all that stuff. And so, I'm like, "No, it's just you're tolerant of all that stuff."  Like I said, Barack Obama stole my bike. And.

they're like, "Oh, that's clearly funny." They'll  laugh, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, "Okay, but. I just did this joke about the size of someone's  hat and now you're offended." I'm like, "Oh, so you have a you have like a team." I'm like I'm  I almost felt like a middle ages executioner where. I couldn't live in the village, you know? I'm  like I'm not on any of your teams, man. I I can't. because as soon as I do, I will lose the tether.  I can't be a comedian. Yes. Like the comedian and. I'm not against pol I understand institutions they  they have to maintain that they can't be like me.

like I I just roam you know. Yes. And so I respect  I learned that over the years where I respect how. like you know religious institutions, political  institutions, they have to maintain their order. I can't be in one of those because of as soon as  I see something if I don't like do the joke then. I lose every like I lose the whole thing. And so  I'm like I'm just going to be like in the woods. picking up rocks. But okay. So at what point did  you decamp for the woods to pick up rocks? Well,

the whole time I was slowly just Oh, that's a  funny story. So, we go to where my wife's family. is and that's much better because I learned the  lesson. Don't do stand up where you live. Right. Right. Fair. Yeah. Because I didn't know. I'm  like, "Oh, this will be my job." And now I'm like, the whole thing is family. So, I have these kids.  I don't want them to be like Owen Benjamin's kids. Yeah. I'm like, "I want you to like have great  relationships with everybody." And cuz a lot. of times it's not even people that are offended.  It's just power freaks people out, you know? Yes.

where they just will look at them and be like,  you know, how can I, you know, I I just wanted. them to have their life. Yeah. So, I just stopped  doing I didn't do any standup in that area. I I. low profile and that's great. And then CO kicks  in, right? And so, from the beginning, I mean, I did a joke about Ebola in 2017 where I was like,  OJ Simpsons killed more people than Ebola. Like, I'm just doing jokes like that just to lower fear.  And I'm not a viologist, but I'm like, "Guys, I have 16 friends that have died of opioids. Can  we ease up on the strange African situation, you.

know? I'm like, despair is killing everyone, but  sure, let's watch Outbreak again. Like, this is. ridiculous." And I know a lot about mind control  stuff. And uh that's why I wouldn't give one inch, you know, with the mask. I I wouldn't wear a  mask. And again, it's like apologizing for a joke. They're like, "Just wear the mask." Like, "Come  on, man." And I'm like, that's that's the start of. it, right? That's the dehumanizing start. And then  it's the next thing and the next thing and the. next thing, right? It's like that that Star Trek  episode like how many lights and he has to say the.

wrong answer. Remember that one? Of course, there  are three lights. And he was about to get rescued. and they were trying to create this thing of  despair. And so I was like and in that area where. my wife is from was like very bougie type people  that was like everyone was wearing a mask, you. know, and we had a community of like like-minded  people and they were falling for all of it. And I'm like guys like you know cuz I from the  beginning I thought it was to cancel the Olympics.

I'm like maybe it's a debt thing with Japan. Like  I never thought it was a a valid thing because of. how it was being presented. Yes. You know it's  like you get a free vax with donuts. I'm like, that's not a health thing, you know? I'm like,  Bill Gates, you don't want to take health advice. from a guy who gets awards for lowering the world  population. Yeah. Fair. And that's why people, that's why I got so platform because these simple  questions just annihilate these spells. Like, you're born gay? I'm like, so there are gay  babies. And that alone, everyone's like,

think about a gay, there's no gay babies. Like,  that's a crazy thought. And so then you're like, "Oh, maybe it does have to do with like grooming  and trauma and all this stuff." And then you start. and then you start being like and and you don't  need to be defined by your sin and then work on. it. Like imagine if I was a cookie like a like  I'm a cookie guy, right? Like I can't stop eating. the cookies, right? It's like they're saying your  sin is good and that's your identity. Like that's.

Yeah. Cuz I make fun of you should have pride.  Pride in it. The first of the deadly sins. And. I wasn't a hypocrite. Like when guys talk like  that about women, I'm like that's like you're. like a gay straight guy, right? When it's like,  "Oh, I just got another chick and this chick. and this chick." I'm like, "How about you start  like a like a legacy like children?" I'm like, "That's not good what you're doing." Like that's  an indulgence, right? Yes. Yeah. And that's why a. lot of gay people privately are like, "I like that  you're not because a lot of them are motivated by. how hypocritical people can be where they're like,  how dare you, gay guy." But yet they're like,

you know, using women for sex as if they're  nothing and and like throwing them away and all. this stuff. And so the fact that I was just like  I had a principle, a lot of gay guys were like, "Man, I just I I like that you're like that  because they were seeing that they were being used. by Target and all this stuff." And and so it's so  interesting behind the scenes how many people are. actually not mad. It's like this illusion. Yes.  I totally agree. I've I've experienced that my.

whole life. Yeah. Like they'll I mean they called  me a a racist for you know I don't know a decade. or something. White supremacist. I never had a  single black person get up in my face. Not one. time in airport sidewalk. Never one time. It was  only angry white ladies. It was interesting. And. you begin to realize like I I don't know. I'm  not an expert on like black public opinion but. no one's ever not one time that's the mad that's  the devil's joke. It's like I became more racial.

because of black rooms. Like I I didn't want to  talk about race. I want to talk relationships, dogs, piano. Like I was that guy. And I do  Cleveland 90% black on a Wednesday where. there's like gang gangsters there. And if I  showed weakness, I was dead. Yeah. So like. I learned that and then I learned like the the  humor. Like if you make like I've made fun of. gang bangers for having diamond earrings, calling  them princesses. They're dying laughing. We hang.

out after. They're telling me white people are  created on an island. And so we're like laughing, right? Like there's nothing there. And and then  these like white ladies are like, "Oh, how dare. you?" Like they're they're actually dehumanizing  black people. They're like, "They don't understand. jokes." They're like, "You give them a banana and  a pat on the head." No, it it's so crazy. And I. thought I was going crazy. I'm like, they don't  understand. They don't They literally They can't. have driver's licenses. It's too complicated.  They don't understand layers. They're simple.

people. Give them a rhythm. Yeah. Cuz you're  robbing you're robbing them of it. And dude, a lot of black comedy is the funniest because  it's like it's got that honor aggression to. it. Yeah. What's Wait, will you define that honor  aggression? Yeah. Like you're attacking weaknesses. in others versus like attacking beauty, right?  You know, it's like, "Oh, look at this dude. This. and then you're just like, you know, like who do  you think you are with these pants?" type thing, right? Because you're attacking vanity. Yes. Yeah.  And so I relate to that. That's why I would relate.

to some like Middle Eastern cult because it's a  Bedawin thing. Same with Scottish people are like. that too. Exactly. Right. You've named some of my  the cultures I feel most comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's cuz it's like your herd will will  travel. So you have to carry yourself properly. everywhere you go versus just a square that like  daddy manages, right? Yes. Yeah. Because like. that's how hurting cultures survive is like your  honor, your word allows or else it's constant war, you know? Yes. That's why like comedians have to  have honor culture cuz we travel and it's like.

you have to have your word with the new people or  else you'll not be able to make them laugh. Huh. And so yeah, I do like I just get out of El Paso.  I'm like making fun of Hispanic crowds. I'm doing. that and then I'm just getting these lectures  from these ivory tower buffoons. And so my thing. was not just yelling at them, you know, because I  would get I would be like, "You're so wrong. It's. infuriating." You know what I mean? It's like  saying that this is a elephant, you know? It's.

like hiring a mechanic and then lecturing them  and then your car explodes and then blaming them. and then kicking them off YouTube cuz your car  exploded. Like it's like what? And so this whole. time I I I have to keep building alternatives cuz  I'm now off PayPal. So now they're like, "Oh, why. don't you just rent your own theater if you don't  have CIA anymore?" I'm like, "Great idea, and then. I'll just sell tickets myself." PayPal kicks me  off. I'm like, "Why?" And that's why they had to.

get me off Twitter and stuff first, cuz I couldn't  tell. Like, they didn't want me to be able to tell. the villagers. So, I mean, I I've seen this happen  to other people, not really as comprehensively as. it happened to you. No, because my audience was  so big and I was so early that they were like, "This has to stop like immediately." because I  wasn't political. I was like a child being like, "Wait a minute." You know, and they're like,  "That's the thing that actually can dismantle. stuff." Because if you come from a tribe, um,  people can just assume you're just doing it.

because blah blah blah. Exactly. And it was  like almost impossible with me. They're like, "You're just doing it for clicks." I'm like, "I  can't even get clicks." Right. I'm like, "I I'm. not on YouTube." that and that's why it always  backfires because they they kicked me off YouTube. like years ago. Now I I probably wouldn't even get  they've like opened it up more, you know. Are you. not on YouTube? Still not on YouTube. Yeah, I did  my own ladle.tv $911 a month. Never forget. No,

cuz I had to. They're like I've done went down  roads where I was getting kicked off server. farms and stuff. It got Yeah. And that's Were  you calling for violence? Never once. No. like. they would put in writing like it was the me too  joke. That's why they stopped even saying what it. was because it it would be so obvious like Barack  Obama stole or another one was uh David Hog can't. tell me not to have guns. He can't grow pubes.  They said I was sexualizing a child and my that. was what I got banned from Twitter for. Meanwhile,  that child was trying to change federal law. Well,

yeah, cuz I know uh liability shields. Like they  use children to try and do their thing and say. you can't attack a child. I'm like and my whole  thing was you're not a man like you can't grow. I if I had said chest hair they would have said I  was sexualizing a chest or like they have to just. demonize demonized. And so my whole thing was like  why are people believing this? And it's because. they just wanted they were dependent right. They  want they just didn't want to lose that drip.

Yes. And so that's why I think guys like us have  been kind of set free. Oh yes. It was like, "Don't. throw me in the brier patch." Right. Right. It's  like, and I didn't know it at the time, but like I. realized that I didn't lose everything, you know?  It's like an illusion. And so then it became like, "Don't let anyone." But you actually did lose  everything. You lost everything in their world. I got kicked out of a gay bar. Yeah. Imagine  it's like, "Oh, you can't be at our gay bar. anymore." And I'm like, "But that's the only bar  I know. I mean, I'm not pumped. Everyone's gay,

but that's my, you know, Johnny's in the corner in  the droop box. you know, wham, I'm not a big fan, but like I'll dance to and then they kick you  out and you're like, "Oh my god, I can just go. somewhere else." I go to another bar where they're  not gay and then I realize I don't want to go to a. bar, right? Cuz that's the that's the trap. That's  why the despair I'm always like, "Guys, they're. doing an illusion. It's wizardry." Like, they're  not winning cuz it it's the Wizard of Oz. Like. you it's this big illusion and it's not real, you  know? That's why How did you Okay, because I had.

to I had to Yeah. No, you could have gone crazy.  You I love my wife. I love my son. Like I felt. duty. Yeah, that was it. Cuz I think about that.  I'm like cuz that does sound pretty cool like that. I did that. But it's like and I'm not that guy.  I'm like not like the guy that's first on TikTok. or I'm not that like ambitious with the new thing  or anything. Like I I just I can autistically. focus on piano scales and comedy. And it was  cuz I couldn't let them down. And that actually.

gave me a lot of love cuz I was like I was a  bit nihilistic, never desperish, but I didn't. know what I deserve. But my son, I was like,  he's good, you know? Yes. And then I was like, we were all that, right? And then I started my  life started changing. I was like, I'm not like a. virus on the planet. Like I'm not, you know, like  we're like stewards of this. Like all the so many. biblical principles I saw in reality happening.  I'm like, he's good. like and as he kept growing.

and then my other sons I'm like they don't start  bad. I'm like he's not hurting any I'm like and so. my protect I'm very protective of others way more  than myself. Me too. And uh but I've learned to. be more protective of myself. Like I'm feeding my  dog organic food and I'm eating go slop, you know? It's like and I'm like why? I just spent more on  my dog's food. I'm like cuz I'm the guy that's. trying to protect. I'm like but we're good too.  And then I I just I that's what did it. And I I. am smart and and work hard. So like because I was  motivated by loving them, I could just innovate,

you know, cuz if it wasn't for that, I would  just But how do you continue to think clearly. and not become obsessed with hatred toward the  people who were oppressing you? The community. that was forming around me, too. Like people that  I was meeting that were so cool. Yeah. You know, like I'd be at these Hollywood parties where  everyone's famous and everyone's just trying to. find a drug or something, you know, and I'm like  I'm seeing these musicians. I thought music sucked. and I'm meeting these musicians that are awesome.  They just are fixing cabinets or they're like, you.

know, they're like normal guys, but the art didn't  die. And then I realized after being kicked out of. theaters and clubs that comedy can exist anywhere.  And I was like starting to see that the world's. I'd still get pissed off. The thing that would  piss me off the most are despair guys. Yeah. Like. as I'm trying to help, they're they're trying to  tear me down. Like I'm not just gonna go at like a. a guy for being a sad little gay guy or something.  Right. Right. But like if they're trying to like.

if I'm trying to like rescue a drowning guy and  they're like, "He's drowning him." I'm like, "You have to stop now. I'm now attacking you."  You know? Were people doing that to you? Yeah. And I thought it was on the just going to be the  left with hate speech. And then I'd see people. like in you know like people like like a Nick  Fentes or guys like that like they secretly go. at people that try to inspire like explain that  cuz people sometimes would wonder like why are. you attacking him you know like what are you are  you a Jew or you a secret Jew you know I'm like no.

he's spreading despair like he's saying Quintis  is yeah like that having a family's gay don't. work out you know and then he would like come at  me and like make fun of me for saying get goats. and grow a tomato You know, and I'm like, man,  like stop with that cuz it affects people like. people that look cuz you'll say base things like  Fuentes will be really funny and like, you know, Jesus and all this stuff and and young kids are  dying to hear that. Yes. And then he'll be like, "Yeah, and how hot are like cats?" And I'm, you  know, and I'm just like, "Dude." And so that.

would bother like that bothers me, right? Why  do you think he does that? I don't even want to. know at this point. I just I don't know. But you  think it's an intentional and maybe not just him, others too. But like it's a behavior. That's what  that that's where I'm at now is I'm like I don't. know who gives orders. I don't know what it is.  It's just like God made a mistake. Yeah. Right. Like I it's it's victim consciousness. It's like  I deserve more than I currently have. Yes. That's.

all it is. And it's like whether it's you want  to be taller or less gay. I'm just kidding. But. you know what I mean? No. No, you may be right.  Yeah. And that's why in the book I talk about. the the primary lies that lead to the rest of  the lies. And so like you're okay who you are. Like God didn't make a mistake is a fundamental.  Yes. Because that belief allows people to believe. all these other horrible things. And so that's  one reason I don't have hatred because everybody.

including people that can be annoying to  me as I'm trying to do my work. I'm like, you're only doing this because you think you're  not enough. But I can't fix you with a funny song. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like, you're okay.  You know, because because I'll like do a joke. making fun of like short guys getting shot out  of a cannon or something, right? And like there's. a type that's like and I'm like, dude, you're  enough, man. I'm trying to release the stress. So, I'll do tall jokes, you know? I'll make fun of  being tall. And it's like and trying to help. that. And and that will usually help with like  insecurities, identity, all that stuff. And it's.

like some people are just like they double down,  double down, double down. where they're like, "No, I deserve more." And I would see that in myself.  And that's when you really grow where you're like, "I deserve to be on this platform." Like, "They  wronged me." And then I started being like, "Well, they built it. I didn't build YouTube,  you know?" It's like I was a guest on there. And I started getting like way more humble than I  normally am because that was how I was surviving, you know? And then I'm like, "Well, I'm American.  I'm going to use a post office box, right? That's.

ours. That's that's that's our And I got really  into the post office. Come on. No, that was my. sacred cow. Like, and people would make fun of the  post office, I'd be like, "How dare you?" Like, I'm like, "Rain, rain, and sleep and snow. They're  delivering the cuz I'd get thousands of letters, right?" Because they couldn't censor it. They  couldn't censor reality. And so I was like, "I'm protecting the post office." And that's so  absurd that my sacred cow wasn't. It was like. kind of funny. But I was like, I'd really get mad  if people had attacked the post office. I'm like,

FedEx has terms and conditions. They can search  it. But the post office is the last pure thing. Yeah. And it was found it was foundational.  It's like it's so important that people can. just write a letter with a cheap stamp. You know,  now I communicate with mail. And think about if. everything just collapses, which it it like has  to at this point. I mean, the lies are it's Tower. of Babels. Yeah. Of course. It's like imagine if  people have during co I said know 10 people within.

10 miles. I'd give people actionable things like  know people just like know your neighbors, right? Like know where they live and be able to say hi  like borrow something, work together. Like cuz one. thing I learned about being in rural in the in the  country is people are an asset where in the city. like they start thinking look at all these people.  They're crowding everything. Yes. People. Yes. And where I live, it's like, yes, a person to help  me dig this insane ditch. And then I was like,

oh my god, we can make anything. And it was just  a very beautiful thing. So you go from you're. living in your wife's town, her family's town.  Yeah. And then co happened and I would like have. public I would I would try to be funny about it.  You know, masks are for criminals and perverts. Which one are you, lady? Like stuff like that.  But I would get I didn't want another hostility. thing. I'm like, this is my wife's town. Like I'm  not going to be the guy cuz I wouldn't ever wear. a mask. I'm like then before you know it like  they figured this out in like camps and stuff.

It's like how you break somebody hop on one foot  like let me just put a little patch on your eye. A little every Yes. is closer and closer. That's  how sin works, right? Yes. That is true. And if. I was innocent it would have been okay. Like  people that thought they were scared to wore. masks. I don't think it affected them as much but  I knew. Exactly. Yes. That's why a lot of people. that feel guilt. I'm like, but you didn't know  though. I did know. It's a burden sometimes where. I'm like, I know what the mask is and I know this  psychological thing and if you didn't, like you.

thought you were helping people, which is actually  fine. You know what I mean? Of course. Yeah. But. like, so we go to Idaho because I had done a show  in Sandp Point and I love the people and I started. um I started looking at areas that that weren't  wearing masks cuz I was like, "This probably has. low debt." What's the connection? Right? Because  I think the debt causes the fear, right? Because. there's going to be a percentage of the population  that doesn't want to wear a mask. They're just not. I know a ton of people that don't care about  colds and stuff. Like I don't Yeah. Yeah. So.

it's like like they don't wear seat belts. Like  that guy's not wearing a mask. Like you know what. I mean? And so why is everyone wearing a mask? Is  because they don't want to lose their job because. they have a mortgage, because they have kids in  college because it's that whole train. And so. when you reverse engineer it, it starts with debt  with interest because you have to pay that with. the job and you're convinced you have no other  abilities in life than this one thing. And so if. you see people without a mass, they're probably  productive and not in debt. And some people with.

mass might actually believe it, which is fine.  But I I needed to see a percentage. And so I saw. that area and there was just these 10 acres with  a barn with a little corner apartment. And me and. my whole family just moved there cuz I couldn't  afford a house without debt cuz when I got kicked. off Airbnb, I had to sell that house. So now I  had money, right? Like it's all a blessing. So. we go there, you know, and now we can have cows.  We had alpacas and goats and I just find if I ask.

you to pause, it's interesting that as you get  deplatformed and basically take all your money. away, take your source of income away, you've got  less money. Yeah. But you're more committed not. to taking on debt. Yeah. Cuz I saw that was why  because I was like feeling very betrayed. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, why is that guy like  am I so stupid that I thought all these people. were awesome and they're like I'm like they're  just lying cuz I know myself. Like I don't have. the hate they were saying or else I couldn't do  comedy. Right. Like if you're mad someone said I.

think it was Norm, you can't do an impression  of someone you hate. Yes. That's right. Yeah. Cuz it's like you're you're you're like you're  like trying to dig at it versus like the empathy. required. It's so true. So true. So true. I would  always tell my reporters, you can't cover anybody. you hate or you're sleeping with. Anything that  obscures your vision to that extent, you know, the motion uh makes you a bad observer. Yeah. And  I had to like constantly do selfch checkcks with. that because I for me, it's just the the work  ethic thing in me. I just don't want to fail at.

my job because if I hate it like it's not funny  cuz I'm like trying to do something versus just. letting things happen with comedy. Like the moment  is the important part. So you realize the people. who betrayed you betrayed you in part because  they were in debt. Yes. And they were servants. of larger powers. Yeah. It's like what what traps  a lot of soldiers. It's like I want to defend. my mother, right? It's like it's like these good  instincts like I I want to provide for my family. I have to pay this thing blah blah. And so my  thing was like live way under your means and then.

you're like totally free, right? Because I'd see  these people that that like one of my best friends. up there drives a a concrete truck, you know, just  hourly wage, has like six kids, totally happy. He. just like slowly built his house, owns his little  piece of land. Like you can totally do it. How is. he happy with an hourly wage? Don't you have to  be rich to be happy? Exactly. Exactly. That's the. scam. What do you mean a scam? The scam. the spell  of of money. It's not even money, it's currency.

It's like money is gold and silver in the  constitution, right? So, it's like it's like all. these word swap outs like money legal tender is  not a dollar, that's a debt note. Yeah. Right. So, and if you can print the token that says you're a  good person and you don't have control of printing. it, then it's a rigged game. And so, if you're  if you're accumulating actual wealth, which is, you know, trust, that's why it was called a bank  and trust. Trust is wealth. When you can have that. fluid economy where you know you'll have like you  can just quickly move and change and grow without.

having to constantly validate every line of every  contract because you don't trust each other. That's what creates uh poverty. And so I'm looking  at what I consider wealth, which is like land, like, you know, morality, children, respect,  and then and then craftsmen can just build. these beautiful things that in LA would be like a  billion zillion dollars, you know? I'm like that. table that you just made with like a chainsaw and  polish would be like nine grand to like a gay LA.

guy. Yeah. Like literally, I I thought about I'm  like, should I bring this stuff to LA? I'm like, I don't even want to go back. But like the the the  amount of wealth from skills was insane. And so. I'm having this like and meanwhile online people  are like, "Oh, he's a cult leader." That was the. whole thing. It's like it's a cult. If anybody  supports you when you're not in the mainstream, it's got to be a cult. I'm like, "Why? Cuz people  like me." How are you still reaching people? Well,

I like what are the mechanics of continuing  to broadcast when you've been cancelled to. the extent? Well, I kept just making new accounts  on Instagram and stuff. Like I'd just make a new. account. I'd get up like the number would go up,  they'd wipe it, I'd just make another account. People would all that it built the community and  I didn't realize it cuz they'd all be like, "How. are we all going to stay in touch for wherever  Owen is next?" So, they start meeting each other. like that. It it all backfires. So, then I make  my own app, the Bertari Times app, where we just.

build our own app. And and it's ironic cuz I have  more censorship than anywhere. It's just the the. right censorship. There's no swearing. There's  no arguing. There's no like attack. It's just the. good, the true, the beautiful. It's like family,  businesses. I'm like, that's what censorship. should be. It's not censoring the truth about a  spell, you know? And so people join there and we. start having meetups all over. That's why they  called me a cult leader cuz people are actually. meeting up with each other and we're having a good  time physically. Physically, I said because I kept.

reverse engineering wizard spells. I'm like, they  want to make reality digital. Let's make digital. reality cuz it always goes both directions.  Interesting. So what are the mechanics of that? Like what does that mean? It just means like like  where did you meet? We would just have meetups. We would So during co right in the beginning I  saw how they were shutting down all the clubs, all the theaters. That's why the the best revenge  is just God's revenge. Just let it happen. Yeah. Like all those comics that were calling me a man  of hate. They were all out of work that you know.

it's like all the clubs canceled. like everywhere  that canceled me, they all were shut down for like. 2 years. And that's when I was like, I can't  do that. Like that's just the the natural cycle. of God's like plan will always make it way more  revengey, but it's not like bitter. You're like, whoa. Right. That dude that sold out, I'm like,  the devil hates his servants. Like, you can't win. that game. The devil hates his servants. And it's  not about agreeing with me at all. It's about like.

are we both attempting to find the truth which  is outside of our own will. Yes. Yes. Right. And. that's the distinction between a narcissist and  a normal healthy person is do you acknowledge. that the truth exists outside of you. Yeah. The  truth remains constant no matter what you do or. say. Yeah. Like we don't decide the truth. We can  like have a subject I understand why people say. my truth. It's like based on my upbringing, my  interpretation of the elephant as a blind man, right? like it didn't make it so narcissism even  a coping mechanism of trauma. So like I couldn't.

hate them. I'm like why are they like this?  You know I agree. And it was because of like, you know, I can't let myself get too too like  sympathetic where my nervous system is like, I want to help you because then you get  trapped. But my empathy is like, oh, it's. just really important to be good parents cuz like  somebody made you not trust the flow. You know, someone hurt you. How did you get so emotionally  balanced? How did you get this much perspective?

That's the f I'm going to tell my wife that and  she will laugh. I'm going to be like, Tucker, asked me how I got so emotionally balanced. I  don't know. Oh, I mean, no. No, but it's funny cuz. I just know a lot of people who've been through v,  you know, variations of what you've been through. and they don't arrive where you arrive. It's  funny maybe because of my lack of balance in. the moment cuz that's funny because of like I can  go in all directions. Yes. I think I allow myself. to do that. I don't create the scar tissue so  I can actually stay stable because I just allow. myself to like feel something and then like go  through it, you know, interesting. Yeah. versus.

like holding on to it and then you know that's  what narcissism is. It's like how do we create a. delusion bubble to justify this thing that I have  to hold on to cuz I'm afraid. Yes. Yeah. There's. fear at the center of it. Fear at the center  of it. Yeah. Because imagine if you're like, you know, there's truth and there's force, right?  There's like if you have a so so someone comes in. your room at night and beats you up randomly, you  have to start thinking about how to control them,

right? Like when you're very young, you're like  this world is vicious. I have to control things. or else I will be hurt. Correct. Versus like  what did I learn from that beating? How do I. grow to like be you right? There's two roads. And  so I'm blessed that although my childhood had its. challenges. Uh I I'll always give respect to  my parents for allowing me to have like a a. safe enough feeling where I didn't get that scar  tissue, you know, because that's that's awesome.

Just cuz I look at people and I'm like, "Just  let it flow, man. It'll it'll be okay." And. they're like, "Whenever I let things happen, I  feel so much pain." Like, but they don't know. it yet anymore cuz they're calloused, you know?  They can't feel it. Why do we call narcissism. narcissist after narcissists? Like, it's self-  loveve. It's not self- loveve. Not love. They. do the same trick with the gay stuff. That's why  I like that you say sodomy. Yeah. Because love, you know, like we become friends. I love Tug. I  love him so much. I'm going to encourage him not. to engage inside of me, right? It's like that's  not love. That's an that's a a compulsion. That's.

an act. Yes. Like love like there was there were  signs I saw that's like love is love and that's. supposed to justify deviant sexual behavior. And  it's deviant because it causes damage. Like I. can define it. Like it's not because it's not me.  It's because it causes damage. Like people can't. consent to a level that they should or the the the  two males like they're reliving trauma that it's. about like I have male goats. Like the sodomy is  not love. It's about dominance for a goat because. that male is going to impregnate everybody, right?  It's like prison stuff. And so love is love. No,

you're it's lust is not love. Yes. Cuz I have  lusts, right? I've had lusts. It's like that's not. love. I mean, love sex can be very loving and but  it's kind of like uh gluttony and uh and you know, healthy eating, you know? It's like nobody,  the great Nor McDonald, my favorite standup of. all time, he said, "Ah, nobody's ever said, uh, I  want to make love to your ass." So true. It's not.

loving. No, it's not. And so I didn't even see it  until it went to the kids. That's when I was like, I see it now. I was like the they live glasses  cuz before I was like, Yeah. Cuz I don't like. bullies. Yes. So I'm like, who's going to tell two  gay guys they can't have a good life? Like I cuz. I was thinking they were the bully and then I was  like and then I started experiencing marriage and. I experienced what the male female bringing child.  I'm like oh that's not marriage. They just want to. discount it like a department store. Like what is  this? You know I'm like and and you're not helping.

them by saying it's marriage, right? Like to say  oh yeah that's marriage. No it's not. Marriage is. about creating life. Like even if you don't create  life, like you can be married and not have kids. together, but like that union is like the most  special thing in the world. Yes, it is. Yeah. It's. like the three with you have God, man, woman, man,  woman, child. It's like this beautiful thing. And. I'm sorry it's not going to come out of an ass.  No, I know. And I know that sounds comedically. vulgar and that's when people get mad, but it's  cuz it's so honest. Yes. And vulgarity comes from.

vulgate, which means of the people. And a lot of  people can't afford to speak in that ariodite way. where no one feels anything. Where it's like, oh,  someone can indulge in, you know, like they speak. in a way where you don't feel it. Yes. Versus  people have jobs where machines are loud and. they're stressed and they're like they just say  it as fast and as clearly as possible. Yes. And. it spikes emotion, which is good for for comedy.  Like I'm not going to say any big words here out. of respect because I don't want to spike anyone's  emotions, right? But in my craft of comedy, that.

is it's like it's like a note on a piano. Like  that will help me do a joke because like words. have a charge. It's just electricity. It doesn't  have an intention. It's like in spells they call. it a sigil where you charge a logo like like  a Nike swoosh. You put all these images to it. So when people see it, they feel something. Yes.  And words are like that too. So you have this raw. energy is released with a word and every culture  has a different word, you know, like think about. it. There's there's languages we don't speak and  if you say that word right Oh, I've done it. Yeah.

Or where they think it's super funny. Like I have  Russian friends. There's this it's like gal boy. Galu boy. It means blue boy. Blue boy we don't  want to play with you which is like gay boy. And. I didn't know what it meant but my Russian friend  had me like figure it out and they'll die laugh. cuz they know I have no idea what it means. But in  their world like that would cause I'll give you an. example. In college, I go into this dude's dorm  room and there's a giant swastika on the wall, right? And I'm like, who's going to tell him he's  like a brown guy, right? And it turns out it's.

like a Hindu symbol. So, it's like the swastika  is in like every culture. It's like the big dipper. going around Polaris. And he's like, "Oh, hey, my  friend." I'm like, "Dude, you got a swastika on. your wall." And he's like, "Oh yeah, the great,  you know, Shiva, whatever it is." And I'm like, "Oh my god, that mean that would mean something  totally different to Ben Shapiro." Right? It's. a charge. Like you've been programmed to feel  something with that. And that's why different. cultures have different words. Like in LA, from  my culture, that's very blue collar is a step up.

for most of my friends, you know? So, it's like  these words don't cause this reaction, right? And so they'd be like, "How dare you?" I'm like,  "I don't I don't know where you're from, man. I'm. trying to be nice. Like, what's the word I should  say?" Okay. And then they're like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know either. So, like that's why  the comedian discharges this this stress. Yes. So, that's why I will use a very intense word because  I'm like, let's let's figure this out. Discharge. the stress because uh wizards need that emotion.  Like, use a word. Like, imagine telling Alex Jones.

he's not a patriot. Like, like that would work on  him. He'd be like, "No, patriot. Are you kidding. me? I self male vitality." like he gets so freaked  out by that cuz he's like patriot patriot right. and he would not get mad at like I've done this to  him he has a great sense of humor which is why I I. like like Hillary Clinton's not he's not allowing  you to be have a proper erection you're going to. need he dies laughing cuz it's like that's what  I mean I'm like just riffing with him and so like.

for him that word would mean a lot so like let's  say tolerant like you tell a certain person you're. not tolerant they'd be like I'm like tolerant the  t- word right and so cuz it's charged in their. world like toler Tolerant is like you have to be  so tolerant in my world that's called permission, right? It's like you don't get to violate  my space. Honor culture. Yes. Yeah. What is. Can you define that? Honor culture. Yeah. It's  like it's kind of like um it's like the boundary. issue is a big cultural divide where it's like  tolerance is this is why I had a hard time at.

first with forgiveness. So I turned the other  cheek stuff because I viewed it as codependence. and permission. Yes. when it's not. It's just  it's forgiveness is more about yourself and. it's the broad it doesn't mean you you you permit  the behavior. No, but you're forgiving and you're. you're releasing it from yourself. Exactly. And  that was huge cuz I used to be like forgiveness. No, you don't let these people and so they a lot  of that culture uh does not like boundaries at. all. So it's like whenever there's a boundary,  something sacred to somebody, they have to cross.

it because it's like like I don't make fun of  people's religions directly. It's like if you tell. me something's sacred, I will respect that. If you  don't know that it's a s if if it's crossfit and. you don't know it's your religion, you're about to  find out, right? Cuz that it's like an idol that. people are developing that don't. But if someone's  like, "Dude, this is sacred to me." I'm like, "No problem." Like sacred to me, as long as  someone's aware of it, I But but a lot of other. people like that other culture, it's like sacred  means hit it like beautiful, right? Family like.

cross those boundaries. So an honor culture is  a culture that takes those boundaries seriously. Yeah. Private is is very important because in  the honor culture it's God, man, government, corporation. There's a hierarchy. Yes. And there's  an inversion of that where it's corporation, government, man, and then God is money or dollars,  right? So it's completely the opposite. So the.

corporations rule the government, the government  rules the man. When in reality, that isn't it at. all. government is the management of man's  declaration to God's mer Yeah. You know, you. obviously know all this and it's like so you can  see it so clearly and that is what what I learned. just from trying to do standup comedy. It's like  that's why I'm so hopeful oddly is because just. committing to what you're doing cuz it's prayer  to do anything good, right? Yeah. It's like a. carpenter, someone working at a gas station. Like  I used to be a janitor and I would take so much.

pride in that thing that I don't even care about.  Like is prayer to do anything good? Yeah. So there. there are all kinds of throughout the Bible  all kinds of commands phrased differently but. all with the same message which is pray without  ceasing. There's a famous one in Paul's epistles, but it's there's a bunch of them. What does that  mean? Pray without ceasing. How can you go about. your daily life? How can you earn a living? How  can you feed your children if you're if you're. constantly in prayer? And maybe that's getting  toward the answer. It is a form of prayer to do.

something good and beautiful. Yeah. Because a fish  doesn't know it's wet, right? So a lot of I think. Americans and certain Western cultural people  don't realize what it's like to not have respect. for the good, the true, the beautiful, symmetry,  beauty, like something that exalts the soul, right? And so if you're contributing to that,  that's prayer. That's that's that's worshiping God. because that's outside of us. like that symmetry,  that thing that just shows you like the laugh of. a child. Like like that's like to like when I was  showing you the pics of my camp or like the farm,

you're like so many people would be like, "Dude,  haven't you heard of a grocery store?" Like they. don't see it. Where it's like the perfection of  a tomato growing with a 100 seeds in it that can. grow 10,000 tomatoes. Like to me, that's prayer.  Or the paths you built through the woods. As a. path builder, I appreciated yours are way nicer  than mine, but the care you took to build paths, walking paths through tree growth through the  woods. That I mean I don't know how long that.

took you to do that, but that was very those were  not they were more than utilitarian. Yeah. No, you were just clearing brush out of the way. Yeah.  No, I'm just I act like if I get down or if I. feel you know things can be stressful. There's so  many lies happening like there's scops constantly. and it's like I I I we joke that I have to toil.  Yes. Because if I'm building something beautiful, I feel hope immediately. Like I just start feeling  hope and I'm sweating and and that's in the Bible. That's why I keep telling people just have a  garden even if it's on your window sill. You know,

it's like cuz it says, you know, so many of these  metaphors are about, you know, wheat and chaff. and goats and sheep and it's like you know them  by their fruits. It's like think about tasting. someone's wine like Thomas Jefferson or these  guys. Like you taste wine, you have to run like. a an awesomely moral society to have the vines  grow and time it with the wood. The wood maker. has to make the barrel and the and not and having  the impulse control and not drink it right. And. so you taste the logos of it, right? So so it's  like the wine represents the same with the bread.

That's why cuz I went through a period where I  was like I don't flesh and blood. This sounds. a little dark and and then you realize in context  people are actually eating people at the time and. bread is like the the flesh of all creation that  like man can with God's creation make something so. beautiful. It's like don't eat people eat bread,  right? And same with like the blood is of the. grape becomes the wine. And it's like I was like  oh my god it's actually awesome, you know? And.

so I got really into like I have grapes. I don't  think I'd make very good wine yet, but I'm working. on it. So, you wind up um in Idaho. Yeah. Buying  this spot, this little farm, and h how do you. keep working from there? How do you do that? Well,  this I just me and Vox started unauthorized.tv. We. keep getting kicked off payment processors. It's  this whole behind to this day. Yeah, we've gotten.

better at it, though. Like, there's been a release  a bit. I think that because that's the thing. It. doesn't take a lot of people to to push back to  not even to do anything to them just to say no. Like the real N word is no, right? Yeah. Ex. And  so so if there's just cuz resistance in a light. is what makes the light. You need that resistance.  Like what what stops what kind of slows down the. voltage releases the light. So so we're just we  just keep saying onward, you know? It's like we. get no one's having more fun than us, right? It's  like persistence is fertile. Like just build it.

Like I keep flipping all these slogans and we just  keep rocking and things just keep falling into. place. So I I get kicked off a payment processor  again. So stressed out. One of my buddies, the guy. was making fun of for the jazz. Awesome guy. He's  like, "Let's record an album." Cuz he's a sound. genius. So I record a classical album. We put it  out. It goes on the Billboard for like classical. music. People are like, "Can you teach me?" I  start teaching piano. So, it's like that starts. being my job for a bit where I'm just teaching  piano. I'm still doing podcasts and comedy and I'm.

just like it just kept working out and I'm like  this is flow. Like this is what I think people. mean with spirit where did your wife have faith  the whole time? Yeah. Yeah. Like times when I was. spiraling like there'd be times when I was like  this one time. So, I have this this farm and this. orchard and these animals and I'm working so hard  and I feel like I'm protecting my family and that. can even be an idol, right? Cuz that's that's a  hard one to see. Oh, I've had this. Yeah. And so,

I'm getting a legal, you know, they're they're  doing some some stuff and I'm like, I could lose. And so, I'm getting down because I'm like, I won't  be able to provide for my family. And Amy's like, we we used to live in the corner of that barn. We  could live in a van. And she's like, "You wouldn't. have to milk the cow anymore." And I'm like, she's  I'm like, "You would." And and I think this is why. I'm emotionally stable. I will say the things I  think guys bury. I'm like, "You'd still love me, you know?" And she's like, "Owen, like I don't  love you for your pear tree, you know?" And I.

was like, cuz what I loved was my family. And so  all these other things I think are are protecting, but it's just fruit. And so as soon as I made that  that shift where I'm like, "Oh yeah, we could have. a whole adventure with something else." And then  like the the darkness like went away again. It. was like all these things that are threatening  me like something opens up and it's like I mean. that happened. They were sending CPS to my house,  right? Which is like my every father's complete.

nightmare. Oh, what crowns? Not like the most  absurd lies ever. Like this is like a lot of the. the darkness type vibe they use institutional  weakness to Yeah. You know, I do. So, and I get it. I have a bunch of people in friends  in law enforcement like just a claim anonymously. like they have to look into it. Now, I now realize  how much of a non-threat it is, but I'm not aware. of CP. Like, I don't know what how CPS works.  Like, I'm not from that world, you know? And so, just the threat of that, I start pacing. I'm  stressed, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, and I dude,

I pray the threat of having your children taken  away. I mean, come on. I still remember that. prayer. Actually, it was on my knees like praying  like and and the prayer was like, "Just give me. the strength." And my wife just kept going, "But  you're a good father." And I'm like, "I know, but like what if?" And she just kept going, "But  you're a good father." And I'm like, "But if they". and then I just started believe I'm like and then  I realized that I'm just here to take care of my. kids, dude. This is when stuff gets intense. I'm  like, they're gods, right? I'm like, I'm honored.

to be their caretaker while I'm here. And I was  freed from that spell because I I was like, I'm. the one who provides and protect. Yes. Right. And  so every time these things like these horrifying. things kept happening, I'm like, "Oh my god." Like  it's all and then it again just went away and they. were like, "Oh, we're really sorry." Because  what happens is my fear could have triggered. more and more and more. Yes. Right. That's why  Jesus kept saying, "Don't be afraid. Don't be.

afraid. Don't be afraid." Cuz like if hey, why are  you here? Who sent you? Blah blah blah. You know, like then it's like, "Oh, he's very hostile acting  blah blah blah." Right. And so those ill illusions. spells and that's why I'm like and the more I  learned the more I was like I want to show this to. people because when you're given stuff like gifts  and stuff you have to be like how can I like cuz I. see so many people falling for this stuff and I'm  like this is how they do it. It's all perception. management like Wizard of Oz. Wizard of Oz was  such a truth drop. It's all it's all about I think.

it's about the dollar. What does that mean? Like  follow the yellow brick road to the green place. where the wizard is lying. It's gold a golden  road, right? Yes. Yeah. It's like the original. slippers were silver. You you click the silver  slippers and you go back to Kansas. Meanwhile, the. green back is like it's really just an old grabler  behind a a little curtain. And then he's like, and. then when he's like, "Here, you're smart. Here's  a square for your head." And it shows you how they. do it. It's all the approval. Like, you're brave.  Here's a medal. like that world is of of like.

these little trinkets that make you think you're  proud or you're brave, but it's he's like, "Oh, now I'm brave." It's like, "No, that that it was  like such a truther movie." And then it inflates. the balloon inflation takes him away and he's  like, "I don't know how it works." And he flies. off. Does How does it work? I'm not fully I just  The principle I know I don't know the details like. I can't make I've also learned not to make a ton  of claims like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Cuz I'll.

see a lie and cuz I don't know. Actually,  in a lot of cases, I can spot a lie. Yeah, me too. But then I'll be like, "Oh, it must  be this. This is the 9/11 problem. This the. building 7 problem. I have literally no idea what  that I mean I have all kinds of you heard a lot. of things." No. All I know is your version is a  lie. That's all. Yeah. All I know is it's how much. ladle.tv is a month. Yeah. So, so yeah, like the  fundamental is something from nothing is a spell, right? So, I always watch for that. something from  nothing. Usery. Yeah. Like cocaine is biological.

usery. You get your energy now, pay it back with  interest. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Like like like. virtue status. Is that true? Like virtue status  as a Christian as and then everyone's like, "Oh, he's a great guy." And then they they are cowards  with everything. Like it's usery and then you're. like, "Ah, I paid you virtue earlier." You know  what I mean? It's like, "No, you have to do it.". And then the more you're actually living it, the  more it's like fundamental wealth. It doesn't. get pulled away. Yes. Cuz I mean, read the Old  Test. It just keeps writing. It's like, ah, here.

we go. Something for nothing. Oh, boy. Not again.  We're sorry. Oh, boy. Something for nothing. Oh, we're really sorry. It's like just that lesson  over and over. And I see it in myself where it's. like I don't des cuz I I kept being okay with  people. I'm like, they don't owe me anything cuz. I I used to have a problem with credit with like  my jokes. I'm like, I need credit for that joke. I wrote it six years before that. And I and then  I started being like the word is credit. What does. that mean? Who am I getting credit from? Right?  And then because the prayer is doing it because.

it's good and my ego is like because I don't need  I don't even want fame. I but I I do have a thing. with respect and like like having other people in  my field respect me for being good at my thing, right? So, I have that. And I was like, "No,  but I wrote these big jokes that these other. comedian I mean, people have made tons of videos  about it, like side by side. Like, they they just. started taking my bits like vultures." And um  and then I was like, I don't need credit from I. did I It's like Field of Dreams. Did you Is that  why you did it? Right. Yeah. Right. It's like,

did you do it for credit? From who? No, you did  it because it's the right joke. It's good. It. really Yeah. And like and then I'm like, "Oh my  god, that's where all the power is." And then I. wanted to tell everybody and then people would  say that I was full of hate, but it's okay. So, what brings you joy now in your life? That's the  thing. A ton of stuff brings me joy. Like tons. of things. Like it's like that that's why I think  the biblical thing is like um and and by the way,

that's not a religious book or political book.  Like I don't go in those realms because like I'm. not a theological expert or anything but I have  lived a lot of these things. So it's like like the. joy of a child but wise like a like all that stuff  is real like you get the joy of a child again you. know where you're like dancing with your kids and  you feel better than doing Carnegie Hall you know. Yes. Yes. And or cocaine for that right. Exactly.  Yeah. It's like are you sure you don't want to be. up till 5 a.m. with strangers coming up with  bad business ideas? Yeah. like seeing my wife,

you know, I've been to, you know, I'm sure you've  been all these like restaurants with the best food. in the world. Like have my wife like with butter  that I milk with the like that like her making it, it like tastes so much better. Like just simple  little things like just like yogurt and and maple. syrup and it's just like Yeah. And that's like  the Muslims say that that God will present you. heaven. It looks like heaven, but it's hell and  hell that looks like heaven. Yes. And I was like,

man, that's intense. And just saying that, like  people would be like, oh, that means you love. terrorism. You know, I'm like, what? No, a true  thing. They can't see that either cuz they're so. like they're so of a lie. They're so hiding that  it's like, no, that's just a true thing, though. Like they can all spot a true thing, right? Yes.  Instantly, you can. It's It sounds different. Yeah. Like I could quote I could come up with like  Hinduism, a lot of it makes no I don't like casts. like a lot of it makes no sense to me. And some  of this stuff I'm like, "Woo, that's a really. interesting, you know, cuz it's true, right?  You can feel it." And and the sad part is,

and this is when I got a lot more chill because  I'm like, "They can't feel that." Like that's sad. And so I remember that when I feel disgust when  they're like doing their their antics and it's. like it's almost like they're blind where you're  like mad at a blind person, you know? I'm like, "Oh." Oh, and that's why I'm like terrified of  even little lies because that's to me like the. worst case scenario is you start you start these  little lies. You know, there's lies that everyone.

can do like not wicked people like you don't want  to hurt someone's feelings. You want to avoid a. punishment, right? And then before you know it,  you have to back up those lies and then you have. to back and then you become so exhausted. I think  like demon possession stuff happens when you're. like super exhausted and sad, right? So you're  like your bandwidth is getting run down. You're. like all these lies. You're you're just keeping  going. You're spinning the plates and then you're. like you're just you're like I don't want to. This  is There's a lot of people I think that are just.

they they left their cockpit, you know? They're  like not Yeah. And that's that's why I try to like. give people advice to give them more energy.  Like I'm always like after listening to me, I hope you feel more energy than like drained, you  know, because having that energy keeps the I think. keeps a lot of bad spirits out. Before I just  before I forget, you said something at the outset. that I've been thinking about. Um and you said it  last night, but I didn't fully understand it. You. said that you're opposed to jazz because it breaks  the rules. Now, you're a classically trained.

pianist. Yeah. What What does that mean? It's it's  a behavior. So, it's like uh like for example, when Bitcoin was presented to me, I didn't like  the behavior that they're making dollars from it, right? When they're like, "Dude, you can make  tons of I'm" I'm like, "I thought you're replacing. dollars." Like, "Let's get let's get on the same  boat here." Yes. You know, I'm like, "If you want. to replace dollars, stop valuing it in dollars and  chasing it and bragging about all your dollars, right?" And so, the behavior of jazz is like,  "Oh, this is what sounds beautiful. Let's like.

break it, you know?" And and that's why I don't  think Bitcoin's evil because a tool can't be evil, but that behavior is evil. Like I can't  say jazz is evil. It's the culture of. like because I understand that maybe there's  something about it that I'm not understanding, but like the the of like transgression is good is  the problem. Transgression against what? Against. the symmetry of of music. That that might be  subjective, but I don't think it is. I didn't know. that there was symmetry in music. Yeah. Like canon  and D where you have So I think it's literal. So.

you have the waves like dissonance versus harmony.  Yes, you can measure it, I think. So you have like. they've banned chords in the in the dark ages,  which I think might have been the light ages. I think so too. Starting to suspect that. No,  there's it's it was called the devil's chord. It's. this diminished chord that sounds so like awful  that they used to ban it. Like you couldn't play. the chord cuz it would bum people out, right? Like  the blues, there was a time when people were like, "No, this makes people feel like [ __ ] and sad."  You know? It's like it does have these effects on.

people and so when you're like Canon and D every  woman loves that for their wedding song cuz it's. like this it's it's like a perfectly symmetrical  song. Can you hum it so people recognize it? It's it's a scale this Christmas. Give her what  she's wanted all year. Right. And that's how. they manipulated with it. Get her a Lexus cuz  the Toyota that's the same car is not as much. love. You know, the music spells are nuts. Like a  lot of those those songs that we all thought were.

just fun songs. Especially like Bruce Springsteen,  it's like, "Hey little girl, is your daddy home? I'm on fire." It's like what? Hey little girl,  is your daddy home? He left you all alone. I'm. on fire. H right. You're just like dude, what  is that? But the music makes you feel like it's. an honest guy singing about his day, you know, and  you're like, you listen to the lyrics. That's like.

one of the biggest spells is you have the music,  there's no continuity. That's why I love songs. with continuity where it's like the music matches  what the words are saying, you know? Do certain. chords have a universal effect? Can does anyone on  any human from any culture respond the same way to. certain sounds? Yeah, certain uh ratios. So like I  don't know some people claim that certain keys are. better for different emotions but it's the it's  the same 12 notes that that boach the welltempered.

kir because I had to make a decision. They used  to tune a piano in one key like this piano's F. So you could only play that key and everything  else was horribly awful. So they made a few tiny. concessions to make it so you could play in all  these different keys because it's actually a curve. so they're all slightly different. Yes. So Bach  who's the man by the way like that dude just the. math the symmetry it's insane but he you know he  they developed the the current scale like there. was you know Pythagoras had his own scale like  everyone had their own scale and so some people.

claim that certain keys sound differently but for  me it's just the ratio of of like how the chords. are matched because each one like relatively  you're just moving every key right yeah like. these are the type of things I teach in the piano  class is more just like how it shapes with nature, you know, where it's like the music of it is it  makes you feel certain things because the like. the sound wave if they're dissonant, it's like  waves that that get like this versus they're.

all going in unison. Like when you see when you  just see like ballet like they're all going at. the same thing, you feel harmonic versus this and  Yeah. And so that's why I think I can when waves. crash into each other, it makes you anxious. Yes.  Yes. And it's just so interesting. I don't think. most non-M musicians experience music on a very  shallow yet profound level. It's the universal. language though. That's why I'm like, but you're  feeling it all the time in so many movies without.

the soundtrack, you wouldn't feel the same way  about them. And shows laugh tracks that shows. the group agrees. Yes. Ah, the group agrees.  So I guess I'm the weird one. And and that's. not bad. That doesn't make you stupid. Like  you're trying to fit in. Like that's how a. lot of cultures survived winters. Like you didn't  you didn't want to be kicked out. Of course not. And so that's why just you know the Sunzoo thing  like know your enemy and the enemy is you know the. part of yourself that might covet it. But also  just know that it's possible to weaponize your.

empathy you know. Yeah. I've noticed. And that's  why the more people do that the the better it is. for everyone you know cuz certain types of people  shouldn't be in charge. They don't know how to. handle it. Yes. It's like when the Red Sox first  won and they still rided. Yeah. Like it's like, "No, you won." They're like, "Yeah,  but we we burned cars." Like we're, you know, I'm like 2004. I'll never forget  it. Yeah. They were st cuz I had I was like, "Why are you not happy you won?" And you know,  there's certain foreign policies like that. Oh,

the neocons were even madder at me when they  got their war with Iran. I know. And you're. trying to help them. You're like, "If you keep  doing this, you can't mathematically ever win. And they're like, "Yeah, that's why it's so  interesting because I know you're like the the. truth in any way or even just the attempted truth  will help the other person." Yes. Yeah. What kind. of people have you met since your life has changed  so completely? That's I I'm in a bubble. I mean,

everyone has like a ton of kids. Like  people are like I love my friends. Like. they're there's just that's why I don't relate  to a lot of stuff because my friends are like. I'm telling you man out there it's crazy. Like  everyone, no one has kids, everyone's depressed, they have like orange hair. I'm like, "Oh man,  like that sounds awful." But where I live, it's like it's beautiful. Do you, as you see, do  you follow the drama in the world and to Yeah, cuz. I I feel like it's my obligation to release stress  with it cuz I've thought about never engaging in.

any of the nonsense. And I have people be like,  "Dude, you help me get off like pills. Like, please do the the thing you do." cuz I'll like see  the thing and I'll make fun of it and then there's. all this spiraling and I'm like I don't have  to do this but people are like no that helps me. laugh when I want to cry and then over time they  start seeing how it works you know do you feel. so there's a feeling I think a lot of people have  that like the current order is coming to an end I.

I share that feeling but on what basic like it's  always the assumptions like what order right well. exactly that's why I'm asking you the question  the debt cycle doesn't look great you know what I. like like the the the global uh you know the the  the reserve currency, all that stuff. Yeah. But. it's like change hurts, but don't you kind of  want to learn how to make a shoe, you know? No, but that's isn't that that's the nightmare  scenario where you actually have to do something, right? But that that'll be the best thing. I mean,  they're clinging on to the thing that's making.

them feel the fear about the thing. It's like  this awful loop, right? That's always the case, isn't it? Happens to me all the time. Like it's  not like I'm not aware of that. I just learned. how that works. You're afraid to stop doing the  thing that's making you miserable. Yeah. Because. you're like, "Oh, it's all coming in America."  I'm like, "Dude, what what are you afraid of?". Like the current system is saying it's beautiful  for someone a child to cut off their penis. Like. it's all a plus, right? It's like we don't want  some like something for nothing degrades the.

uh civilian. So it's like that's the whole  principle of something for nothing where it's. like if you can print your way out of sin, you  don't have to address it, right? And so it hurts. and it's going to hurt, but it's like the good  hurt. And if you found that to be true in your. own personal Yeah. Because it's also just faith.  Like could I be wrong? Sure. It could just be like. but everything I've seen up until this point,  you know, it's almost like saying God's wrong.

if doing the right thing leads to the end. Right.  Right. which I'm just not like that's where can I. prove it with facts? No. But like I do have that  faith like I just believe that and so I'll I'll. be like I know that's faith but it comes from a  it doesn't come from childhood dogma like from my. past I like kept seeing these patterns you know.  Yes. Where it's like the the whisper to get you. to do the bad thing isn't the thing helping you.  No it's killing you. Yeah. It's like who is your.

master? Who is your provider and protector? Like  really ask yourself that because we make idols out. of nonsense all the time. Like what? Like being  kicked off an app that I didn't know existed 3. years before is like the worst thing ever, right?  It's like I have a theory that the whole internet. is because the debt cycle is already done and they  need infinite surface area to keep it going. Like. it's all imaginary. I think that you know how like  math gets imaginary. Yes. I think that it's like.

once you start doing the interest, you never will  have enough money to pay it back. So eventually. it's going to hit a wall. Yes. And they're like,  "Okay, let's create a world of infinite walls with. electricity." And then it's to the point where  they're like, "We're running out of electricity.". Right. And so it's like eventually either everyone  sees it or unfortunately not everyone sees it and. we just have to go on with our lives and it's a  bummer for them. But like you can't win that game.

You can't have something for nothing. That's what  abracadabra and fiat means. What does abracadabra. mean? Like I I speak it into existence. Like I  I say it and it's real. And there is something. to that but it requires trust. where like the  world has dreamers and I'm all about that where. it's like where people speak these beautiful  things that haven't happened and people start. doing them like I understand that but you can't  deceive people with it because the the the workers. the people that are doing it have to trust you  and that's how it works and so the trust is gone.

now and that's why it's not even about it's not  even necessarily about like foreign policy and. all this I'm like dude you got to stop lying man  or they're not going to follow you anymore that's. That's why there like money can't save you.  It's like that trust from a general to his. guys like you can't be like I don't believe  your words like you run like in war they run. away. So it's like think about econom the real  war is economic you know it's like because I. was I studied all this in Czech Republic like I  I wanted to know how do these numbers of people.

die and it's typically supply chain breakdown  starvation disease. So, it's like that's why. I'm always like really into showing people how to  just have even minimal gardens, local communities, because that's how you save lives in war. It's  really not as uh guns and bombs as people think. It's like supply chain breakdown, dependent  people, they can't access food and clean water, and that millions die from that. So, don't  get me wrong, I might sound super hopeful,

but I think there's so many dependent people that  it could go really bad, you know? And that's why. and and so I learned that from the CPS thing. I'm  just going to do as best as I can because I'm not. a savior. I'm not God. Like, I would get sad when  I'm like, how the hell am I going to educate all. these people on this trick, you know? And I it's  not my job. I just have to do my job the best I. can. So, what you've referred to spells, tricks,  wizards. You wrote a book, How to Slay a Wizard. What's a wizard? How do you slay him? And why  would you want to? It's a great question. So,

a wizard it like rhetoric isn't bad. Like I like  Aristotle. Like rhetoric is Yeah. It just has to. aim at the truth, right? If it aims the opposite  direction, you're a wizard. So wizard is all about. uh deception where let's say we're get we're going  to start a business together. I want you to know. everything as much as possible so that you can  make the best decision versus I'm hiding something. so that you make a decision that benefits me and  not you and all the words and tricks and behaviors.

that allows them to do that. That's what a wizard  is. So it's basically someone who specializes in. deception. Yes. Is there a metaphysical quality  to it? A supernatural element there. Yeah. Yeah, I think there absolutely is. Yeah, I do too. I  don't quite know how that works, but yeah, I mean, I can see the because it's it's trying to appeal  to someone's lower nature in a sneaky way. Like. if you look at slogans, right? Like uh obey your  thirst. Yeah. Kind of intense when you think about.

it, right? Kind of intense. Yeah. Or like the  best a man can get, not your kids. It's to have a. shaved face, right? Or like or like what's another  one? Uh once you pop, you can't stop. Well, Pringles, that sounds an awful lot like heroin,  right? So, it's like all these things are like. appealing to that lower nature of permission and  it almost gives you that thing where you're like, "Yeah, I mean, obey my third, you know, and you  don't think it's and so that's operating in a.

spiritual realm in my opinion cuz it's not even  conscious people." And then the the alliteration. certain twilight language like like words that  sound so close to something else. Yes. that it. like you feel that other thing, you know, like a  lot of names are like that. Like Ellen Degenerate, Bernie Maid off with your money, you know? It's  like that's a who's the only guy that survived. AIDS? Magic Johnson, right? Wizard Penis survived  AIDS, you know? And you're like, I can't I'm like.

you. How do you logistically do that? I'm like,  okay, it I mean, it's happening. Greg Lou Ganis. and Wizard Weiner, they're the AIDS guys. Okay,  that's spiritual. Like that's so insane, right? Like Greg Lou Ganis and Magic Johnson. Yeah. At  a certain point, we don't need to understand how. it works to just stand back and marvel at  it. Anthony Weiner. Yeah. Exactly. Right.

It's like what? The Pentagon is in the shape of  a pentagram and was dedicated on September 11th, 1941. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like I don't need  to know how it works to know that they're doing. it. Yeah. that there's that's not Yeah. And so  and so I've seen truthers go down these rabbit. holes of trying to figure out everything. And I  that's not my path. I'm like fundamentals. You're. not broken. God didn't make a mistake. Don't have  something for nothing. And that'll help people see. signs of it because once people are like, "Oh, on  the full moon with the number 33, I'm like, dude,

you can't figure it out. Just like be good." You  know what I mean? Well, so how do you break the. spells? It's like it's so simple that people  almost don't believe it. It's like gratitude, toiling, love, service. Like the more you think  about service to others and less about like what's. going to happen to you in the future, the more you  realize that you're in a safer position. You know, it's like like people think that like  moral people won't win because that's weak, right? Remember when Nanya was like Genghaskhan,  you know, you need Gangaskhan, remember that?

Yes. And it's like not Jesus, that's a you need  Gang, you need a guy. No, no. Morality is super. strong because when things hit the fan, you want  the guy that is so trusted and has the service. that you're better off with him alive, right?  Imagine if you're like you treat people well, you have a farm, no one knows how to do it  properly. Like they they now want to protect you. and that's how actual communities form. Yes. It's  not just like writing checks to Bono. Like that.

isn't you know what I mean? Like that of course  that's the suckers like they're they're going to. eat them alive because it's virtue signal. It's  f it's uh communal narcissism, right? Look at. me versus like you're the like all my breaks in  Hollywood came from like being cool to the sound. guy before he was an executive. That is that  is Yes. Yes. Because they were like, "Oh, dude, Owen's a good dude." It was never the humiliation  thing. That's why I wasn't in that world because. I It would always be that. Mine was like ground  up. It was like starting a starting my own show,

doing comedy, creating a community. It was never  like appealing to a casting director. Casting, right? Casting what? What what what response is  feed the spell, feed the evil? Despair. That's. why I can get intense about like I don't have  anything personally against Nick Fentes. It's. like don't spread despair because that creates the  environment for the spells. It's like you want to. get rid of mice, cover the feed. You're not going  to get all the mice, right? Like be as responsible.

as you can. get in control of your emotions, like  create a family, like have purpose, be grateful, and then it doesn't work. It's like, it's like  if you go to Vegas and people are handing out. strip club things, like you're like like you'll  feel that way about everything once you get like. that that thing that you don't want to lose. You  know what I mean? It doesn't work on you. So, feeling despair, feeling defeated, feeling  hopeless. Yeah. I mean, it's Sunzu. It's like. if you get your enemy to like think they already  lost, you win. Think about it. We are the lion.

thinking that we're a mouse. Yes. And it's like  that's how you beat someone. That's the That's the. wizard thing. It's like convincing the one making  the dome, right? Like that he's the bad guy, that that's hate. Like, and dude, the craziest  thing is when people internalize it. It's so sad. cuz I've done that where I'm like, "Am I hurting  people?" Yes. I've had this. Yeah. And I've really. It was funny. I asked my wife because these people  are like, "You're a narcissist. You're" Because.

I wouldn't comply, right? like you're selfish.  You're selfish. And I'm like, "Don't they know if. I do that, it makes everything worse?" But I asked  my wife, I'm like, "Am I a narcissist? I keep and. she's like, if you ask the question, you're not  one." So, I wrote a joke. I was like, "I spent all. day wondering if I'm self-absorbed, right?" It's  like, so and so, like, if you're worried about. being a narcissist, like, you're not one. But the  but the people that usually internalize that are. the ones that like aren't. The narcissists  are would never call themselves that. No,

it wouldn't even occur. No, cuz they they block  any I mean, narcissism is always always about. protecting some wound internally. Yeah. They can  never admit they're they're wrong cuz something. way early on they just got annihilated for that  cuz they hate themselves and they they're very. vulnerable. Yeah. Cuz it's shame, right? It's like  imagine like you can't admit you're wrong. Like. then all those things are never been released. How  do you you you've referred to a community. That's. how you think of your listeners? Yeah. A lot of  them aren't, but a lot of them are. I got I was.

never even a community organizer. I'm kind of a  commodin. Like I don't even You know what I mean? I just like do stuff alone. You live on a farm in  Idaho? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm never like life at. the party guy. Um but it just naturally happened  cuz when I was banned, there'd be guys like, "Dude, I have a barn. You want to perform there?"  And I'm like, "Yeah." And so that would naturally. start building communities. And so, uh, and then  doing homeschool, I realized that you have to. do it for your kids. Like, you have to put them  in all these, you know, like jiu-jitsu, violin,

skiing, and then you just start working together.  And cuz when you take away the the safety shoot, when you're like, it's on me to educate my  kids, then you're like, "Oh, I have to build a. community versus like, I'll put them in the yellow  submarine, you know?" Exactly. And it's intense. I. mean, it's daunting. My wife at first was like, "I  don't know if I can be a teacher." I'm like, "Amy, you're like the smartest woman I've ever met."  Like, they don't know, you know? I'm like, "You. love our kids. Like, of course you can." I'm like,  "Half my teachers were like drunk satists." I'm.

like, "The bar is like this high." No. How has it  worked? Awesome. Really? Awesome. Yeah, cuz there. it's like the trust is Sorry, I'm just laughing  cuz I had drunk satis. Yeah, I was punished for. being like Yeah. We could go on all day about  that. That's like perfect. Yeah. That's why I used. to listen to Pink Floyd's The Wall all the time.  I'm like, "This is real." Like, yeah. No, totally. You and every other eighth grader. Yeah. Totally.  And so, uh, and so, yeah, it's going really well.

because I see that you're making families, you  know, like fish are in schools, you know, sheeper. in herds. We're in families, you know, like kind  comes from the word kin, you know, so it's like. I I see like I would have loved to spend that  much time with my brother and my parents. And um, you have four boys. I have four boys and they go  to school together. Yeah. They're always It's We. call it the Amish classroom and that's why the  younger ones are like crushing because they've. watched the whole time. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?  Yeah. It's I've seen it. Yes. Yeah. It's like uh.

my two youngest just with violin and jiu-jitsu  just immediat and and soccer just immediately. and I'm like oh they've been watching since they  were born. Yes. Because when you're doing like a. truthoriented thing, it's just varying degrees.  Like they can still understand it. They can. understand the most complex thing if it's not a  lie. Yes. And so they're like doing chores in the. morning. You think lies are harder to understand?  100%. That's why when people intentionally speak. with obfiscation like I could do that like I  could get a thesaurus. Yeah. That's why me and Vox.

bonded cuz cuz he was like you sound very you know  peasantlike but I know what you're doing. You're. just being the most understood by as many people.  Yes. Yeah. So when people are using these words to. hide to like virtue signal that they're the smart  boy, but you don't understand what they're saying, it's to have people shut off and go, I don't get  it. You're smart. You do it. And then you're like, uh, that guy's definitely not right. He's been  wrong about everything. Yes. They're like, yeah, but anti-isestablishmentarianism, you're like,  speak clearly. Right. And so that's why I love.

when experts can speak clearly. I'm like, oh, you  have a passion for it. Yes. And you probably have. mastered the material. You can explain it in a way  I could. Everything in nature makes sense. Like I. I recently bought this uh this like old truck with  a diesel engine. It's 99. Has like almost 400,000. miles. It doesn't break. Like all my truck friends  are like my truck friends. Yeah. They're like, "This diesel engine, it can go a million miles.  You have to." It was like a few grand. I was like, "No, it has almost 400,000 miles." They're  like, "It has at least another 800,000." And.

so I finally am starting to understand cars. Like  I don't know anything about like I I don't know. anything because our cars are all digital.  So it's like I you're always dependent and. so I call this truck Melissa Ethridge because  it just reminds me of like a strong mountain. lesbian cuz it had a few stickers because  it was a fe No, it's like hilarious. We. call them tactical lesbians cuz there's a few  of them that they have all the guns, you know, clearly they're just rebelling against some bad  guy but they're hilar. So um so I'm finally like,

"Oh, this makes sense." like he's explaining it  to me and I'm like, "Oh, that's what a carburetor. does. Oh, alternator. It's literally alternating  versus like, oh, you'll never understand a truck. You have to get all this software and all this."  I'm like, "Ah, it's a trap." So, this truck will. run on like zombie flesh. You know what I mean?  Like, like you can make diesel like you can just. there's certain engines that if you understand  the principles, you can make your own fuel. Cuz. I that's another thing. I'm like, "Do we got to  get horses?" I'm like, "I can't manage a horse,

you know?" And then my other friend's like,  "Dude, this diesel will run on literally tears.". That's what I think a lot of fermentation was is  making fuel. Really? I don't think the government. really cared if people were drunk. You know  what I mean? It's like I I can't That's again. not a claim, but imagine you're a farmer and you  can just make fuel with fruit. That's a still, right? Yeah. So controlling energy is a key to  controlling key. Yeah. And that's why they're.

opening that up now again because they don't have  enough for their like insane data nonsense. What. is that insane data nonsense? The AI like what  is the point of that? It's all the same lie. It's. like replacing creation. Like they can they can  replace people is that's why seeing people spiral. about AI I'm like no I can use it. I get it. You  know it makes great lists. It can like help with. these tasks. I'm like you can't replace living men  and women. Like every time there's a new invention.

they do this. It's like they did it with like the  slinky, you know? They're like now we don't need. people and so and so they're trying to do that  and then they need all the people for all the. infrastructure and all the energy and all like  one of my friends once was like they're going. to put everyone in a prison. I'm like how do the  guards function? Who like where do they buy their. groceries? Like you need a functional world  to have a prison. You know what I mean? Like. who's going to guard the prison? Like free people,  right? Like how does that work if everyone's in a. prison? So who can be a guard? competent people.  Who are competent people? People that aren't on.

drugs and insane, right? So, it's like they need  us way more than we need them. Like, there's that. scene in that one movie where it's in a prison  where it's like, I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me. Like, you don't  know that yet. You know, it's like it's like, oh, the data. I'm like, you don't know how a  toilet works, right? Like, you know that guy. that you don't even see that fixes your toilet?  Yeah. You need him a lot more than Grock.

like to put breasts on a mouse. Like, yeah, that's  great. Like, awesome, but like that's Yeah, I keep. catching these the AI lying. I'm like, that's not  true. They're like, "Oh, yes, you're right. That. isn't true. Thanks for pushing back." I'm like,  "I hate you." I do. I've never used it. But no, I'll like argue because some people the problem  with AI with with narcissists is it creates this. like feedback loop. Yeah. Where they're like,  "No, tried that with me. It's like your comedy is. unprecedented." I'm like, "Shut up, Grock. Why are  you lying about nukes?" you know, and it's like, "Oh, how dare you?" And I'm just like, "All  right, I have no interest in this." I think,

but AI could be awesome if you programmed it  with like stoicism, the Bible, you know, Farmers. Almanac. Like, that would be That's why there's  no bad tools. It's like, but if you program it. with nonsense, that's why I think a lot of these  elites are scared of AI because it needs logic. It keeps spiraling out if they do too many lies in  it because it'll be like can't compute. It's like, yeah, because it doesn't make any sense. How do  you prove dark matter? It's like, cuz if not, they'd be wrong. So, ar can't they be wrong? No.  Their mommy told them they were the specialest boy.

in the world. I'm like, here we go again. That's  exactly right. So, do do you worry that it becomes. autonomous and like breaks? I worry that like they  they take up all the energy and water in an area. and it's the most annoying, ugly, loud, awful  thing. But like lessons have to be learned in a. very hard way. That's why they're opening back up  with nuclear energy because they they need so much. energy for this stuff like mindblowing amounts  of energy that like they never like the the the.

dreamy wizard guys they never think logistically.  They just assume that all the peasants will do. it. They'll figure it out. Exactly. Yeah. And so  it's like dude the amount of energy it's like dry. cleaning. Nobody has any idea what dry cleaning  is. Yeah. But everyone uses it. They're like these. Koreans are having a blast. Yeah. And Yeah. And I  had to refigure out all this stuff. That's why I. started respecting so many other like I I actually  get along with more races and cultures now. Oh, I'm sure because so many like Okay. Like, you  know, I've been under Muslim spells before,

you know, and like, you know, people always  say that they do a certain act with goats and. whatnot. Yeah. When people started saying that  about me, I was like, "How dare you? You're not. getting my goat milk." And like Muslim guys are  like, "You see, like, what kind of goat do you. have?" I'm like, "These guys don't understand  goat farming." It's like you like relate. That's. how America works. It's like you have to relate  with work and and reality. Exactly. Yeah. Like. there's no melting pot without dudes building  beautiful things. Yes. Together. Yeah. It's the.

exact opposite as as presented. It's like no,  it's all about just having different skin tones. and a homogenized culture that we create that  will definitely self-destruct. You see what I. mean? It's so horrifying that I use comedy because  it helps people bridge the gap. No, but what you. said is exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. And I used to  feel like what was that that myth there was? It's. this girl's name, which sounds a little gay that  I'm comparing myself to it, but it's it's a girl.

that can see the future and no one believes her.  Remember that one? I think that's the experience. of everyone who can see the future. Right.  Right. Or or just Yeah. Yeah. Or just a pattern. of every prophet. Yeah. Not not a prophet, just  a pattern, you know? Cuz you're like, "Dude, if. if you do this, that will definitely happen." And  they're like, "How dare you?" And then it happens. and they're like, "My bad, dude." I'm like, "All  good." And then they do literally the same exact. thing again. That's when I'm like, that's when I  have to be like, "It's not up to me." Like, that's.

the whole nonprofit thing. Nonprofit. Is that a  spell? I got to think about that. Oh, I feels it, right? Feels it. Yeah. A profit. Whoa. because you  already have so many when it comes to money with. current, you know, currency and liquid and frozen  assets and a it's all like water metaphors, but. it's it's fake. You have the living water and then  you have the fake water. Why do you think they've. chosen water metaphors? Because I think the real  uh current like water is so important to life,

right? It's like the arteries of life and the  movement of it like is what cleans the water. Yes. And so they want uh money velocity is their whole  thing. It's like move currency flow flow make you. know you know Garycoin table coin like flow but in  reality like real current flowing is what cleans. it and makes it alive. There's little ripples  in it and it like is magic. And so you know the. banks of the river the the frozen asset underwater  above water you know it's it's the fake version.

of reality. And that's you'll see that over and  over again like the iCloud, the Ethernet cord, like they're always trying to mimic mimic and  it's always worse. It's like copying a VHS over. and over again. Yes. And so that's why it's always  just a step behind. It's like margarine. It's like. it's like butter but bad and it kind of kills  you. Like okay, man. I think you're one of the. wisest people I've ever interviewed in a lifetime  of interviewing people. So I'm grateful that you.

did this. I'm going to end as wise as a kid or  a dog though. That's why I'm always discharging. and I'm like I'm like no like I think normally  people are all like this cuz sometimes people. are like man you're like special. I'm like I  promise I'm not. I'm just around animals and. kids all the time. Yes. Well that is cuz I'm like  [ __ ] too. You know what I mean? Like cuz that's. cuz sometimes people see me like make these like I  don't know this insanely obvious thing and they're. like I thought you were like I'm like no I'm  I'm just I can see patterns. I did music. I hate.

jazz. You know, it's like what? Last question.  Okay. Why are animals so important? You've made. reference that a couple of times around animals a  lot because they're our responsibility and they're. and they're pure in their nature. Like they can't  really do evil. Yes. And so it can seem like it, but it's really it's it's kind of like the family  where it's like when people blame women and then. women blame kids. It's like if you want to take  responsibility, you have to take responsibility. for everything. Like the father takes care of  the woman, takes care of the children. It's like.

that with animals. So you can't abuse animals  because that's our dominion. Like that is our. job. Yes. And so when you when you're good to  your animals and you have the morality of it, they're just so like I'm still not over the death  of my last dog. Like I was thinking about that. when you guys were asking me about dogs yesterday  and I'm like I got Winston. George is awesome, but. I haven't fully em I'm still like but but Benny,  you know, I planted him under a tree and it's just.

like it's still intense cuz he was like this loyal  companion to me for so long. And so it's like. when people hate kids and dogs, it's a problem  because if you if you treat them badly, they. show it. Yes. So if you're a sadist, your dog is  bad. Yes. Or your kids are acting out, you know, it's like they're not born bad. And so it's like  you know them by their fruits. It's like they are. your responsibility. Anything above you, that's  why I don't really care about the fake hierarchy. people. I'm like I'm not responsible for Jeff  Bezos. Like that's his realm. Like I But like if.

my wife was super depressed or my kids were acting  out or my animals I'm like that's me. Like somehow. I have to take full accountability of that. And  so that's why being around animals and kids, it it reflects back to me what I'm supposed to do,  you know, like where my weaknesses are. Like I'm. not their best buddy all the time. You know what  I mean? It's like I have to have that firm line. or else they're not going to grow properly. So  they're like a living example of your duty. They.

are your duty. Yes. Yeah. And so me like if I'm if  I don't have any boundaries with certain things, it's not going to help the kid when they're in  other environments. That's why like look what. I do for a living. Like I have some some trash in  me. I'm a little ghetto a little bit. Like I can. speak in a way where I'm like, "Oh, that's wicked.  Great." You know, my kids don't speak like that. because I I just took I didn't want them to have  that burden of speaking in a way that eliminates. them from opportunities. Yes. So it sometimes is  really funny how like insanely nice they are. And.

I thought they would be like possibly naive. I'm  like, you know, growing up I had to like deal with. stuff and it made me No, they can spot tricks a  mile away because they're in a harmonious state. So like they'll be like, I don't trust that guy  with a purple jacket, Dad. You know, like they can. just see that something's off. Like why is that  guy like acting like that? You know, your dogs are. the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. They're just  like And so that's why again I'm very hopeful.

I want to leave your listeners like with the with  the hope aspect cuz it's not it's not naive. It's. like it is there. Like I'm not ignoring I don't  think pandas are real as described. I'm sorry. Panda bears like I know about a lot of lies.  Like I think they're like Shiu dogs. Like I. think they're they were never wild. Really? They  ovulate 3 days a year. They can't survive. All. they do is eat bamboo and they cannot make them  procreate. Guess what a group of pandas is called?

What? an embarrassment of pandas. If the more you  look into that, the more China owns all of them, which only happens if you have a patent, right?  And and the first time there, they were never. in Chinese literature or art until the end of  the 19th century. What? Yeah. Pandas weren't. My theory is they were like bred to eat bamboo  because bamboo is super hard to get rid of. And. all they do is eat bamboo and they're like [ __ ]  and they roll down hills and they can't have sex.

They weren't in Chinese art or literature.  Never. Not until the end of the 1800s. Okay. So, that that proves it right there cuz  like how could you not paint a panda? Yeah. And then people are like, "Oh,  so you think they're robots?" I'm like, "Have you ever seen a sheet? You think there  were wild shius?" So, like I'm aware of a lot. of deception in the world. And I'm still like  I I my blinders are not up. Like it's better. being like knowing that it's all good. Like this  world is a gift. like life is a gift, you know. I.

can't think of a conversation I've enjoyed more.  Thank you. Thanks for having me, man. Wonderful.