National Security Expert Elbridge Colby’s Advice to Trump on How to Avoid WWIII & Handle the CIA

We are now three days out from. the election. There's a mad scramble, of course, in Washington for people. to get positions of power in the new. administration. Some of them are good people.

Some of them are not. You are being widely discussed. as potentially the next. national security adviser or. secretary of defense taking over. DOD. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm fairly confident you'll play a. large and meaningful role in this. administration. You're never going to say any of. that. But I just I thought I thought. that the audience might like some. context for why we're having this. conversation. I think you're one of the very few. people with deep experience. in national security who shares the. president's priorities on national.

security, which is amazing. There aren't too many. You're I. would say, the leader of them. There's the context. What does this next. administration need to do. in order to. remain true to the president. elect's articulated positions on. war and peace? Well, thank you, Tucker. And thank you very much. First off, for your confidence in. me. It means a great deal. I don't I don't make it felt. Well, I know. And that's why I'm deeply grateful. and honored. And I clearly don't make any.

presumptions about any role for. myself or what I would what I would. say. And I mean this with all. sincerity, is that. I think the president, United. States, the president elect is. exactly right, that we stand on the. possible precipice of World War. three, and we need a fundamental. change before we ram. right into the iceberg. I mean, I think the election is. over, but this remains absolute. true. Is that what I call the. liberal primacy alliance? Basically, the kind of policies. of President Biden and Vice. President Harris aligned with the. prime minister, as I call them, we. could call them the neoconservatives. have led us to a situation in which.

we're overextended. We're on the brink of war in. multiple theaters, and we could lose. them. And I really. want peace. And more importantly, President Trump ran to. his historic credit. on an agenda, as he said, of, you know, in his. victory speech, I don't start wars. I end them. Now, I think my view. is that we have to have how. you actually get to peace. is a difficult question. And I had the honor of being on your. show a few years ago when my book. came out. And I remember I don't.

recall, but I said I was thinking. about your question to President. Trump about why is it worth. defending allies? And I gave that a lot of thought and. that in a sense, my book is a. response to that question. And I think you do need strength. You do. But well, of course. You need peace through strength. But that that term has become. cheapened and distorted to become. basically an excuse for. an aggressive, expansionist. approach to foreign policy. But I think, you know, its real. meaning and President Trump is in a. sense going back to the great.

tradition of the Republican Party, the Weinberger doctrine, the Powell. doctrine. Yes, Nixon Eisenhower, as Bob Dole used to put it, these. are Democrat wars. It used to be Democrats who started. wars and Republicans and ended or. avoided them. Eisenhower didn't go. into Vietnam in 1954. He did not intervene in Hungary in. 1956. Again, he nobody. thought he was a weak guy. So what needs to happen right now. Before you get into that? I just think it might be. helpful to describe. where we are now, because a lot. of Americans in this category.

were so absorbed in the election. that we may have lost touch. with what you opened your remarks by. noting, which is we're on the brink. of war in multiple theaters. You tell us where we are. Absolutely. Well, I think for the first time. in about basically 150. years, we are not clearly the. world's largest economy. We compete for that with China. And they are a far larger industrial. power. Russia in purchasing power parity. terms, is a very large economy with. enormous industrial production. capacity. So North Korea advancing. its nuclear and missile programs.

Russia has a larger manufacturing. economy than a lot of us. appreciated, I think. Yeah, I. Mean, I despite a lot of boasting, they're still out producing the. North Atlantic Alliance, including. the United States, in artillery. production, which is old technology. by like a factor of 2 or 3. Iran's two weeks from a nuclear. weapon, according to Tony Blinken. And worse, these these actors. have come together. Now you will. hear from the sort of promises and. liberals that that means that we. have to fight them all at the same. time. No, to the contrary, it means. they are collaborating together. precisely to tie us down.

and deplete us. And that's what's. happened in the war in Ukraine, where we have expended a tremendous. amount of weapons. Ditto in places like attacking the. Houthis and so forth. At the same time, our defense. industrial base has wildly atrophied. from where it was 30 years ago. And this is why the agenda for re. industrialization is so important. But that's going to take a long. time, as Senator Vance has pointed. out. Meantime. China can I say it's. not I mean, I thought one. of the the justifications, the main. justification for this. wildly inflated.

Ukraine funding was that it was. going to help reestablish America's. didn't have industrial base. And in fact, one of the. most kind of oft used. arguments by a lot of the advocates. for the war in Ukraine was that we. would sort of degrade the Russian. military for so long and restore our. defense industrial base at the same. time, Actually, more or less the. worst. The reverse has happened. The Russian military is larger. And this is, you know, general. cleverly this year has admitted. this. The Russian military is. larger, It's battle hardened. I mean, our military has not fought. a pure adversary.

Well, I mean, really since World War. Two, but certainly since Vietnam. and Korea, the Russians have. gone toe to toe with Ukrainians who. are capable and they have a revved. up defense industry at the same. time. So in a sense, we're worse. Meantime, the Europeans have. basically been asleep at the switch, not not going through with their. defense buildup, with a few noble. exceptions like Poland. So and then you look at China, which. is by far the most formidable. challenger, ten times the GDP of. Russia. This administration, Tony Blinken, has said Xi Jinping has given. the instructions to their military.

to be ready for war over Taiwan by. 2027. Frank Kendall, the secretary of the. Air Force in the Biden. administration. Said the other day that he thinks. the Chinese military will say. they're ready. We have to be ready for this. My view is we desperately. want peace. The Chinese are going to. look at us both in terms of our. strength, but also in terms our. political commitment. And this is. where I think President Trump has. been exactly right, which is being. willing to talk to President Xi. Jinping, not insulting. President Xi Jinping and President. Putin and others unnecessarily.

not supporting things like Taiwan. independence and at the same time. being prepared to be strong. And this is where I think if if if. we appoint or. if if people are put into positions. of power who think that we. can walk and chew gum and do. everything and start wars in three. different theaters at the same time, not only will that be bad like it. was in the Iraq war and often the. same people, it will be far more. catastrophic. I don't think this is. an exaggeration. I think we stand on the precipice of. losing a major power war for. the first time in our history.

So people need to know what time it. is. And that really requires. focusing on China with the. purpose of peace like we did in the. Cold War, which was to say we're. going to be strong. We're not going to go over the line. like Eisenhower did in 1950. He's not going to go into Hungary. We're not going to go to Czechoslovakia. in 1968. But don't come across our. line because you see it's not going. to succeed for you. So I think we really stand at a. crossroads. And I think President. Trump has a mandate for peace. So don't I. just as an American, whatever. happens to me, I so hope. that we don't end up with.

the same failed recipe. of starting wars all over the place. or getting enmeshed in conflicts. when we can't we can't afford to do. something not interesting American, but. From a non-expert position, which is my position just as someone. who's watching kind of. There does seem to be broad. recognition that whatever our. objectives in Ukraine were, we and we didn't achieve them and we. can't. Zelensky immediately comes. out on Trump's election and says, Actually, I'm for peace. That does maybe seem like it's. winding down.

Who knows, I hope. But the noises are consistent with. one degree. So but at the same time, the very. people who are pushing that war all. of a sudden, like very excited about. a war with Iran. Yeah. It's like they just seamlessly. it's like, we're Ukraine, whatever. Actually, the real problem is Iran. and telling us that Iran is trying. to murder President Trump, etc., etc.. I don't know what's true. I don't. But how would you know what. would happen if we went to war with. Iran? Well, I mean, I think, you. know, look, Iran's a bad regime. We don't want to have a nuclear. weapon. We don't want to support.

Israel. We don't want to be able to. support groups attacking Israel, etc., etc.. But like, haven't we learned the. lesson over the last 25. years about the ill advised. nature of very significant. conflicts in the Middle East that. don't have clear goals and clear. connection to American interests? Like haven't we been overt? Like, didn't we run this experiment. a couple of times? And it's often. they're like the exact same people. calling for war with. Iran who were involved. in the past. And it's like, shouldn't there be. some degree of accountability, moreover. Yeah, it's. It's like a bad idea in itself.

I mean, you know, like I was. criticized in the bulwark by. Eric Edelman, who was Dick Cheney's. advisor and number three at the. Pentagon under Bush. He said, my ideas were iconoclastic. And I was like, Thank you. I'm delighted that you think my. ideas are. I kind of how. Could Eric Idle and be writing with. an incredibility at all on foreign. policy questions after being, you know, intimately involved in the. Iraq war and then never apologizing? I don't know. There should be some. international authority that. requires contrition like it like. a moral U.N. where you don't get to say another.

word until you done ashes. and sackcloth and apologize. Who among us is and I'm certainly. not inerrant, I'm certainly not. infallible, but like at least show. some you know, it's like Paul Gigot. of The Wall Street Journal a couple. like a year ago gave a speech. They treated the Iraq war as like a. mulligan. You know, it's like I. think that's like a big deal. And, you know, obviously, a lot of. people got to, you know, had. different views, etc.. But it's like it's kind of show the. contrition, show the penance, show. the show, the learning. And so that, I think, is the other. thing, though, Tucker, is like it's. the same people who are calling.

for attacking Iran, who are also calling for escalating. the war in Ukraine or even a no fly. zone, recognizing an independent. Taiwan or getting in a war with. China or attacking North Korea. It's like if we do all those things. that we know objectively as a fact. that our military is not capable of. fighting more than one major war at. a time. So even if you did want to, getting in multiple fights with. people at the same time is just like. foolhardy. And I mean, but but the way I think. about it is the Washington blob. establishment can get us.

into wars and crises, but they can't. fix the problem. So it's really important right now. and it seems to me that you're just. listening to President Trump at his. historic victory, the decisive. mandate. He got, his leadership, his. mandate, his agenda for peace from. a position of strength. Use the military sparingly, but have. it be strong. It's really important not to get. enmeshed all over the place. and either bleed ourselves out or in. a catastrophic multi-front loss. I think it's the last thing Donald. Trump wants through. He seems that way, right?

I mean, the arc of his life is. just is so remarkable, the. redemption that we just saw on. Tuesday. As you know, without. precedent, really in American. history. And so if you wanted to. destroy his presidency, a second. presidency, what's, you know, what's the one foolproof. way to destroy it? No. No president has ever lost. a great power war. Donald Trump has run to his enormous. historic credit. He has been shot. He has been had lawfare conducted. against him. And he has had the bravery and the. vision and the persistence and. the commitment at great personal.

physical cost, but also to his. reputation, his family, etc., to stand up for these principles. that the United States desperately. needs putting America's interests. first peace, prosperity, etc.. Re industrialization. Now is the time to put that into. practice, whoever it is. I just I can't stress how. how important that is. And if you're. thinking about a historical legacy, Joe Biden is going to leave a legacy. that's terrible. I mean, where the for all the things. you mentioned, the war in Ukraine, two and a half years in.

Julian Barnes, a New York Times just. reported that the intelligence. community is reporting that the. Ukrainians are losing. That is not a stalemate. So after all that, after all. the preaching, after all the. moralism, the Ukrainians are losing. the war and the Russians are making. enormous progress and were. unprepared, were unprepared for a. war with China. The Middle East is in the worst. situation in years. We can't even stop the Houthis. like a third or fourth rate power, and we're not prepared. So they've left us on the precipice. They've put us on a you know, the.

Titanic is directing towards. the iceberg. It's going to take a sharp. turn. And the way I think about this. and when I worked at the Brown and I. worked for President Trump in his in. his first term, when we worked on. the defense strategy to try to get. us to prioritize again, in my view, with the same logic, very consistent. with what President Trump, I think, was trying to lay out, that. was like, you know, we were a couple. of miles from the iceberg back then. Now we're like right up, you know, we're few thousand yards. And it's not easy to turn the. Titanic. And if you turn the Titanic. 90 degrees, people are going to fall.

out of bunks, chandeliers and. beautiful, you know, plates are. going to get broken. But that's. where we are. But that is the fault. of what I call the liberal premise, this alliance that is the fault of. Joe Biden, the Marla Harris, and the prime sister. It's sort of old school Republicans. who, if they pursued that policy. further, would lead us to. catastrophe. Then how is it that from what. I can tell, pretty much every. person in the running for the big. national security jobs other than. you is part of that. alliance. And I you know, I know them all and. I like some of them.

A couple sitting U.S. senators who I think are really nice. guys, but. they're they're tools of the people. you describe like completely. There's kind of no doubt about it. How how is it that there are. so few people on the Republican. side in national security with. experience who agree with. the president elect who leads the. party? So I've thought a lot about this. because I've been fighting as you. kindly gesture in a sort of a. lonely battle within the sort of. blob to to put us on.

To me, what is common sense? Well, exactly. That's right. And yet so few people do it. And why is that? It's so weird. And honestly, so much of your. insight and some commentaries both. on this show and your other podcast. interviews and your shows, etc.. Because I think it's like I think. there's a human sociological. element, I mean, not to get. And one of the things that's kind of. bizarre is that I think like today, people like us, we can learn a lot. from the new left of the of the 60s. and 70s, like there's something. wrong with the. establishment and the way the. established. Now I believe there's. always an establishment, there's an. establishment in China.

But we need a better establishment. Well, that's it. You know, you're a. friend of your fan of Teddy. Roosevelt. You like the idea that, like, the establishment just does. what it used to do is like, no, the point is the establishment. supposed to serve the people, Right? Of course. But I think there's an. element and I try to give credit. because like, yeah, there's money. and stuff, but there's other ways of. making money. I think it's this. psychic kind of like network. benefit of being part of like. essentially functionally an imperial. capital. And everybody comes to, you know, this, right? They come to the. Capitol. I see. You're so wise.

We need your leadership. You're so you're so moral and. your vision. And it happens in. Congress where people come. They probably not thought about. foreign policy that much. There are all these structures set. up to kind of acculturate them. And again, like, I don't want to. sound too new left, but like, you know, this is kind of what. happens. And so you need, I think, a clear. eyed view of how to. change and frankly, a willingness. to buck the system. And this to me. is like and I'm certainly far from. the only person to make this point. I think you have as well as like. President Trump ran against the. system.

And that is so important because. it's the system, the liberal. promises, the lions in other things. like trade and economics, etc., that that need to be a fundamental. change. And already he's. paid the price literally, and shown. the bravery and commitment to go. through that. And so now it's about like. capitalizing. And frankly, my. hope is if that. happened, a lot of these people, especially in the younger. generations, would follow. And I forgive me for a little bit of. patting myself on the back, but I. think it's an apropos comment. I was out at a thing a few months.

ago when this young guy came up, you. know, strong guy, whatever, and he. said, hey, you know, Mr. Colby, I'm. going. I'm going into the Marines. and I just want to say, all the. young Republicans love what you're. saying. And I said to him, I was like, well, that's good because all the old. Republicans hate it. And he's like, yeah, that's the. point. Where do they boy, do they do. that? And that's like to me, I. always I think if I say I'm like the. first line, not sir if this is. Yeah. Although, you know, there are. people out there you wonder about, but like this is this is not like. actually getting shot, but it's like. I'm trying to think about how do we. protect Americans from not getting. shot, of course.

Right. And so and so I think the. young people can see it. You know, the young people who were. like, you know. what, We're not bought in to, you know, who have not been kind of. acculturated, worked for senator on. this committee for ten years and. then went to that think tank and. blah, blah, blah. I think I think if you build. it, they will come. But it's like the first echelon. we take a lot of we take a lot of. metaphorical flak, hopefully. metaphorical. I just and I won't go on. about this, but I am a little bit.

distressed by it, very distressed by. it. But like someone like Mike. Pompeo, I'll just say the name who. I don't think is going to get a job. in this administration, I would. pray that he's not. I think he's a criminal who said. that plotted to murder someone. who hadn't even been charged with a. crime. That's criminal act, should. be arrested for that. That's my. view. But even if you don't believe. that he's been. anti-Trump for eight years, worked. against Trump, and he's a crazed. neo con. And he's still being talked about. and promoted again.

And I think he's getting at the job, but promoted to run. the national security establishment. in the Unites States. How can that even happen? Well, look, I mean, I think it's. if I were advising President Trump, I would say. especially now that the mandate has. happened. Yes. Why pick some anybody. who's not aligned. with what you're trying to do? I mean, I saw the last ad. that President Trump ran. I mean, what a stirring ad like it.

one. Who is in that ad? You. Tulsi Gabbard. Robert F Kennedy Jr. Vivek and Vice President. elect Vance. That is the mandate. You know, so so like. my my hope is that he will own. that and that is the way for that's. the way for peace. And there's going. to be debates about various policies. and how to emphasize this or that. But why go back in, especially. in a situation where as. successful as the first term is the. situation that Joe Biden and Kamala. Harris are leaving President Trump.

in January is I. cannot stress how dangerous this. And he's right. I mean, the way the. President Trump again, has. commendably talked about the risk of. nuclear war. I worked on nuclear. issues a lot on my kind of starting. point. A lot was like working on. nuclear weapons, a nuclear strategy. and arms control. I worked on arms. control with the Russians. We shouldn't be afraid of these. things, you know, salutary fear, not like an, you know, unmanaged. fear, if you will, but like. a salutary fear in the beginning of. wisdom is fear or whatever the Bible. says to that effect. I should I. should know that. But.

But it's true. It's true. Right. Is understanding and. calibrating. And to me, one of the. light touch grass kind of things. about a lot of the people who are. calling for like no fly zones. in over Ukraine and intervening. against the Russians and escalating. and allowing U.S. weapons to be. overtly used to attack Moscow. And Russian strategic, you know, forces sites like. that, that is that is obviously. crazy. It's like time out. Like that is obviously. There are many Republicans. In fact, some of the that's why I. think that the arguments within the. Republican Party in some ways are.

fiercer because my. hope, Tucker, and I think. this is something you've been, you. know, on for a while, but it's. like the Democrats are like they're. sort of inherently out of. position right now. Like, where is the left? Where are the people who are like. antiwar? Where are the people who. say the CIA is not above reproach or. the FBI is not above reproach? Who are the people you know, Right. Mills or whatever, the power. elite and all this stuff, those people, those movements. have to come back. And I think that that's something.

where, especially given the mandate. that President Trump has been as won. that hope. I mean, you know, whatever you think of Bernie. Sanders, the fact that he said like, we're out of we're out of position, you know, and others are saying. they're out of position. My hope is that Democrats. will go back in a sense, the kind of. arguments that I'm making that I. think you could have heard a. Democrat make ten minutes ago. Right. Or 30 years ago or 40 years. ago. Hey, we need we've got to be. able to talk to our opponents. We have to have a strong military, but not get into unnecessary wars. That's just common sense. That's for sure.

I do remember when Democrats used to. refer to abortion is something that. should be safe, legal and. rare. Well, they've changed their. view on that. It went from a right to a sacrament. This isn't the pro-choice movement. you may remember from 30 years ago. This is something much darker. And that's why we have joined forces. with Preborn. They're a sponsor of the show and of. our speaking tour to do something. about as the largest pro-life. organization in the United States. And they are doing what they should. do, which is speaking up against.

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to anyone knows the history of the. Central Intelligence Agency. Your grandfather ran it, William. Colby. And so there are two interesting. things. One is I'm sure this will. set off just explosions. of theorizing on the Internet. Yeah. So what is your view of CIA? How is it? That's why I think that's. why your friend was in Washington. because your. Yeah, well, actually, my my. great grandfather was a career army. officer. So I come from a. kind of a national security. background. I mean, my dad not not. too much, but, but, you know, look,

I my view on the Intelligence. Committee and I worked on this stuff. myself when I was kind of early in. my career, although on the. commission that looked at why Iraq. intelligence wrong, I didn't. agree with my my grandfather for. everything with everything. I didn't know him super well. I mean, I know a lot about how he. approached things and how he. has his record and so forth. One thing where I do really agree. with him and where his legal. training and the fact that actually, as Jim Schlesinger said, he was the. first liberal to become director of. Central Intelligence, was that he. thought and I agree with him, that. you need a CIA, you need. a national security establishment,

but it's not above reproach and it. needs to be accountable. And that's what he was. You know, the interesting thing about him. and you know, just to stress that, I. don't take any credit for it, like. I'm just telling it just because you. asked me. But, you know, he was in. World War Two. He was then a field guy. He was in Europe and then he was in. Vietnam for a long time. And then he kind of ended up as. director by happenstance, as these. things sometimes do during. Watergate. And so he had not been really. involved. He wasn't one of the. inside club of like, you know, so you got Dick Helms book to manage. to see because he was the kind of. ultimate insider Washington.

operator, kind of my grandfather was. out. Unlike me, I'm more of a DC. DC type policy type. But but I think he came in. and he said there's a chance. that I mean, remember this, the. Democrats at the time, the. Congressional class of 1974, very. left wing lot of them were thinking, let's just get rid of this place, let's get rid of the Intelligence. Committee. And his view is like, that's not good for our country, but. it's not good that they're spying on. Americans. You know, I got debates on some of. these on Twitter sometimes about. like whether the American government. is funding some of the stuff, you.

know, in Europe or whatever, NATO's. blah, blah, blah that's. reverberating back into the American. of system was like, yeah, it's. happened before, you know right. So long. Time for a long time. So it's like it's not a reasonable. and by the way sunlight is the best. disinfectant. And and by the way, who are some of. the people who were opposed at that. time? Dick Cheney, Don. Rumsfeld. You know, they were opposed to any. kind of Henry Kissinger, any. kind of accountability for the. intelligence community. And so that's how I look at it. I think there's a real need for. accountability also in the. professional military. What what is this going on with.

four star officers. recently retired, who have no. political vetting? They haven't been. elected dogcatcher, weighing in. on extremely sensitive. points on American. calling one of the presidential. candidates a fascist. That is wildly inappropriate. There needs to be a fundamental. change. First of all, it's wrong. Second of all, it's not consistent. with our constitutional. order. Remember that our founding. fathers who had gone through the. revolution, who had fought a war. against a great power and won,

they were like The Nasty. Politics is a feature. Alexander Hamilton and Thomas. Jefferson talking about each other's. mother. Fine standing military. are we only built a serious. standing military? American military officers wore. civilian clothes into the Pentagon. as as late as World War Two, maybe. even after. So we have come this is since 1947. or since World War two, basically. And I think we need it given what's. happening, but it needs to be. accountable. The third point I would. make about this group is like, where do they get off?

Like has has our military been. successful? Have our political. military goals been achieved. over the last 25 years? You know, call me when you want a. war if you're like if. You're join us. And by the way, that's most of that guilt goes. towards the liberal prime assist. alliance, the politicians who did. it. Yes. But also the war leaders. who, you know, for instance, H.R. McMaster wrote a book called. Dereliction of Duty about how the. generals in Vietnam did not tell. Lyndon Johnson they couldn't. successfully prosecute that war. Okay. I agree with you. How how is that how is the senior.

military done? So I think some humility, getting. back to basics and staying out of. politics is really needed. It it's infuriating. It does challenge like. the idea of our constitutional. order. I agree completely, but it's. also ominous. So when you read that the Pentagon. now has a new policy where the. direction of civilian leadership, they can kill Americans in the. United States. But what does that. I mean, look, there's a lot of. things that need to be taken a look. at where like we have gotten, especially after 911, where it's. just metastasized.

Right. Where we need to ask. ourselves what is the right. And I think you've done this like. commendably where you're saying, look, you know, I was here on this. position here and I've seen the same. thing where like, you know, but look. at look at the. And people like, you know, who were. we would say on the old new left. would have said, my God, this is. going to be abused. And people like. us, we're like, I don't worry about. it. And now they were right. So let's take a new look at that. again. I think we need to have. the capabilities. But I also think this is where this. group I mean, practically speaking, not only former I mean former CIA. leaders implying that.

President Trump was a Russian agent. is a wild abuse of. the trust because it's a special. trust with classified information. and special forces. And you it's almost like a religious. obligation where there needs to be a. self-discipline and an understanding. that there's certain things you. can't do, you know, and. that and that's been deeply. violated. And I think, frankly, Republicans agree that. a lot of Democrats or independents. or whatever voted for President. Trump. They've delivered a verdict. on this issue. So I think you need people who have.

that balance, which to me is the. American way, is to say, look, the people have spoken. This stuff got out, got out of hand, and we need to have a balance, but. we need to preserve what we need for. our security. What do you do in Ukraine? Well, one is. I hope the president is. successful and leans forward on. his plan to end the war. And I just say I don't know what. that is, but nobody knew what Dwight. Eisenhower was talking about. 1952. Nobody knew what Richard Nixon was. talking about, 1968. And nobody knew what Ronald Reagan.

was talking about. 1980. You already see indications that. players, including President Putin, might be might be changing and the. Ukrainians, for that matter. So I hope there's a basis what. exactly that looks like. I don't think, you know, you're. not going to like liberate Crimea. Right. That's obvious. And the war's not going well. I think that's step one. And I think the Europeans needed to. I mean, this is something I've been. banging on. It's just so common. sense. And by the way, you want to. talk about who's helping. Biden and Harris, you know, go. to Europe and say you don't need to. worry about anything, But so what. kind of prime is this type? Republicans?

They would go to Europe and say, don't worry, we can do everything. We're we're leading. They didn't do the Europeans any. favors. They didn't do the. Ukrainians any favors, let alone. anybody else, let alone the American. people, because they promised things. they couldn't deliver. And this is. something where, you know and I. said this, I was Ross Douthat. We had an interview right before the. election, The New York Times, you. know, where I get always embarrassed. and say this was sort of like. questioning the morality of what. President Trump saying. I don't. think there's been a stronger case, a more important time. for foreign policy that is more.

moral than what you see, which is. the moralism, which is all. intention. You see it on the left. from Tony Blinken just saying, the Ukrainians are fighting for. freedom, so we need to do X, Y, Z, and then failing. The way I think about it is like, no, we need a foreign policy that's. more like, how does a parent think. about the responsibility of a child? Or let's say you're you're on the. board of an orphanage. You know, you might have a really. good guy. He goes to church every. Sunday. He's like, you know, but. never cheats at cards or whatever. But he sucks at handling the money. You know, you're going to hire a guy. who's actually to take care of the. orphan. Exactly. And that is and.

By the way, if all the orphans die, it doesn't matter how much you love. them. Exactly. Or claim that you do, you. don't actually love them. Well, of course you don't, because. the purpose of a system is its. effect. And what's the effect of the war in. Ukraine is to depopulate. Ukraine and now. to allow foreigners, including many Americans, including. BlackRock, to buy the soil of. Ukraine. I mean, it's certainly not whatever. this has happened has definitely not. been done. Well, the Ukrainians just lost. Ukraine, but not to the Russians, but through the encouragement of the. Biden ministration. That's my.

view of it. But how close do you think we have. come to a nuclear exchange with. Russia during the last. I think it's close. I mean, and Woodward for. you know, I mean, I'm not sure how. reliable he is on everything, but I. think the reporting that the Biden. administration, which was against. interest, was very worried about. Russian nuclear employment in later. 2022, is very, very concerning. I think it was it was quite real. And the people who were blithe and. insouciant about it, I think is a. incredibly irresponsible and should. not be near serious decision. Who are those people?

Well, I think you see this kind of. liberal premises. I there's a lot of. people who who sign the no fly. zone or who made the comments. on Twitter or otherwise around that. time and have said since have. said, you know, lift all the. restrictions on the employment. of U.S. forces. And by the way, what's very clear is a lot of these. people, if given the opportunity, if. they thought the political environment. would bear, it, would support direct. intervention, which if we go to. war with the Russians directly, the Russians are very prepared to. use nuclear weapons. So we have to. be realistic about what that. entails. What does that entail?

Well, I mean, I think. the Russians one thing about. Putin that's that's important. And again, like you don't have to. like the person to understand that. we need to take this guy seriously. Right. Is he you. know, as he was as soon as he. assumed power and took over from. Yeltsin, which in the Russian mind. was a catastrophically disastrous. period, one of the first things. Putin invested in was the. recapitalization of the Russian. nuclear forces and the way Putin. talks about Russian nuclear weapons. and of course, strategy indicates. that he has a quite sophisticated.

understanding of nuclear strategy. And of course, you know, a lot of it. is speculation because thank God. they've only been used once or. twice. But it says to me, this guy's. credible. And he has an idea of how to use. them. You don't start by blowing up. Washington, D.C.. You start potentially with something. like battlefield use, selective. strikes against things like places. in Europe or more peripheral. targets, but it can go up there and. then you manipulate risk. And if weapons are used in that. way, you could see millions of. people. I mean, and we have almost. no defense against. That's why I.

think President Trump, for instance, like having a better shield would be. great. But right now, we're pretty. much denuded. I just don't understand. I mean, I guess it's kind of late in. the game to whine about it, but we. provided, you know, a missile defense shield to. another country, but we don't have. one. Like how how did that happen? I don't know. I mean, I think I. think that's something that we can. work on. I mean, it's technically. very difficult, but I think having. something better than what we have. now. We're always bragging about, you. know, the use of the sophisticated. use of our defensive missile.

technology abroad. Did it occur to nobody that the. purpose of the U.S. military is to. defend the United States? Well, it is. And by the way, up until the ABM Treaty was signed. in late 60s, you would go around. American cities and there would be. Nike, Ajax and Nike, Hercules, nuclear tipped missile defense. interceptors and other kinds in Iran. and all these kinds of things. So I think having a stronger defense. of the American homeland makes. sense. And also, like, you know, people talk about the American. military being used, you know, in. relation to Mexico.

It's like, well, I think Mexico is. like a you know, when the immigration. issue was very, very complicated and. everything. But like, you know, the. American military is to defend the. United States, Right. So, like, that should be, you know, so to me, the core. missions of the American military, they really need to focus on. defense, the homeland, preventing. China from becoming the hegemonic. power in Asia, because I think we'll. never re industrialized, will never. be autonomous and be what America. needs to be if China dominates Asia. But I hope and think we can do that. without a war, working with others. that pull their own weight. and then and then having an ability. to make sure that we.

don't have a replication of 911. Some of that is like being smarter. about how we use our own military. But but I think some of it is, you. know, you got to keep tabs out. there. And then I think it's like. about supporting, you know, people. say Trump is anti. I think that's totally wrong. It's just a different model of. allies that's obviously a is much. closer to the Cold War model. And B is common sense is like. personally. Trump has anti allies who. are of course, most important ally. in Europe is Germany. Which is totally. And we just destroyed. And so but by the way, we had.

a direct hand. This is not speculation. I'm willing to say it's fact in. blowing up Nord Stream. So I know we're blaming the. Ukrainians, but like we did that. to say that, No, that's not true. It is true. So how exactly do we get to. launch an act of industrial. terrorism against our closest NATO. ally? How is that ally ship? Well, the thing that's that's weird. And this gets, I think, also into. the context of like, who benefits, you know. Coy Bono, Right. Yeah. Is like so since the Ukraine. war broke out, the European economy.

and particularly the German economy. has been like in freefall. So there's this kind of cute. argument for a while that we had. somehow like benefited from. Europe sucking air. after the Ukraine. Many people say that. And it's like, well, no, no, wait. Hold on. Our point. If you go back to like what. Eisenhower and like common sense is. like, no, we want them to stand on. our two feet. Like I don't get a. rise out of lording. it over the Europeans. This is this is sort of this mindset. that like. Well, this is still fundamentally a. European country. This was a European colony. So Europe is basically allied.

with the United States on a very. fundamental level, or certainly has. been for 2050 or so, just. destroying Europe. Well, right. With some exceptions. But but in general. You fight it with the people closest. to you. Well, that's right. But I mean, like. Christian Europe, right. It's basically our ally and. destroying Western Europe, which I. think we've done. How does that help us? I don't understand. I don't think that it's I mean, the. interesting thing about that is I. mean, you know, obviously we're, you. know, settled originally by. Europeans. Now we have people coming. from all over the world, etc..

But the thing is, actually, if you. look back at our early history, we. stayed out of Europe and we were. actually more involved in. the Western Hemisphere, particularly. the, you know, Caribbean and Asia, actually. So people say, you know, you never we're never going to get. focused on Asia. I don't think. that's true. Who open the black? Who? The black ships open Japan. Exactly. People were trading in a. lot of the early American fortunes. You know, the Peabody Essex Museum. Yeah. Salem That was that China, right. People trading in Canton. sometimes with opium, you know, and. then like Samoa, Hawaii, etc.. So I'm not saying like we have a we.

have a strong interest in Europe, Philippines, the Philippines, of. course. Thank you. In fact, my great grandfather, we. were talking about our families like. I he was. an Army officer in the interwar. period and he was stationed at the. American. There's like a concession. in China, not China's proudest. period, but, you know, we were we. were present. So what that what I think that means. to me is a couple of things. One, if you actually go back to American. history at our best and really. kind of, you know, the first got. really until 1989, we did pretty. well with the exception, I think, of.

things like Vietnam and stuff like. that. But it was pretty hard nosed. Like if you go back to Washington's. farewell address. Hamilton ET cetera. It's like we're looking after number. one. So this idea that America First. is somehow in. System. It's like, by the way, a republic is supposed to be in. the interests of everybody, right? That's the definition. So so when people say Trump is. transactional or whatever, I'm like, good, right? We need he's like the, you know, the CEO of America. And the board is saying, hey, look. after our interests, Right? That's actually what you want. And then on Europe, it's like we.

don't actually benefit. I mean, it's been a disaster. I think objectively, the policy. over the last two and a half years. in particular has been a total. disaster. Germany is in real. economic straits. The Ukrainians are losing the war. They haven't built up their. military. But, you know, hey, Joe. Biden got a medal from Olaf Schultz, who's probably going to be out of a. job as well. I hope so. Few months for their sake. I mean, I don't believe in like. intervening. Apparently, the. Europeans Schultz himself, feel. free to intervene in our politics. Schultz endorsed Biden. Do your job. I was I was at the Republican.

convention, as you were a couple of. months ago. And I was getting. lectured by a few members of the. Bundestag, the German Congress. equivalent conservatives, putative. conservatives. And they were like, Why can't you do it? Reagan didn't. I said, You know what? There's some problems with that, etc., like debt to GDP, our. military. So how about you start. out by spending as much on. defense as the American people do? Like why don't are like that. That to me is like what President. Trump and against the whole foreign. policy establishment. And why? Because the foreign policy. establishment likes the dependency. model. Of course they like the welfare. model in the United States.

They want people in public housing. Right. And that's what I've said to the. Europeans. And it's part of my. message. The Europeans is like, hey, it's not just your fault. I'm not just castigating you as. responsible. You are. It's also our. fault, especially our establishment. But if you look at the message from. the American people, it's we. don't want more of that. establishment. And that's, again, why it's so important to have the. right policies and vision. Well, we've got the vision. The question now is implementation. So the problems for the president. elect are the same. as they were in the first. administration, I would say. How do you staff this thing with.

people who are aligned with you? Right. And how do you keep the. people who presently occupy every. position of power, who operate the. levers of power? How do you keep them from from. wrecking the project secretly? Yeah. And the thing that's different. is that the international situation. that he's being left with is truly. dire. And so there's no room for, you know, kind of like, you know, sort of a delay or. There's no look, I'm sorry. I don't want to I don't want to. start attacking people, but I just. know everybody, as I know you do.

Well, they have no, no. I mean, the people who are want. these jobs in. the Trump the the second. Trump administration. And there's no they act. like it's 1985, like. they have not updated their files. These are the dumbest people I think. I've ever. Read on this. Yes. In the debate when he said to. The secretary of state, I think. that. Would be an amazing, amazing. I mean, he's there. He was out. hustling for the president. You know, he's he's I mean, we all. say, you know what time it is, But. he, like deliver these memorable. lines against Pence in the.

in that debate And then he debated. John Bolton, I think, at VMI. And it was just like he was a very. human point. I saw the segment where. he's just like, you grew up and is. being generous, honestly, to John. Bolton, frankly, but much so I. admired on that point. But is is said you grew up in the. era of Apollo 11. You know, and I grew up in the era. and he's younger than I am. The global financial crisis, Iraq failed wars, you know, increasingly fractious society, etc., etc., etc.. And so, like, you know, nobody. there's a friend of mine who. was interviewed in one of these.

stories about the new right and so. forth. And he said nobody under the. age of 30, I know he's a. conservative, treats the neo. conservative idea with anything but. derision and scorn, something like. that. And it was just like, I'm confident where things are. heading. But we don't have time. Because if Trump like and I'm not. a fanatic on China, right, like my. view on China is and I think. the Chinese understand this, my. view is we need to be strong, but. we also need, like in the Cold War, there's like a line and there's we. don't cross it. And we need to be. able to decouple the thing, you. know, get re industrialized things.

Lighthizer and have our own set of. are talking about which is bring. back industry have more autonomy. but at the same time you know. there's a line but we're not going. to go in regime change. There are people who served in the. first Trump administration who are. talking about regime change in. China, who are talking about primacy. over China, like dominating China. like that is so dangerous. And often they're the same people. who are supporting, you know, total. support of Ukraine, which is like. makes zero sense, zero sense, right? So my view is. you got to do the things you're. talking about, but you've also got.

to say we got to and, you know, Senator Vance has made it. Vice President elect Vance has made. these points very well. Re industrialization is critical, but it's going to take some time. In the meantime, given that the. Biden team has used up so much of. our weaponry and so forth, We got a. husband. What we have and again, to. me, that is with the purpose. of not getting into wars. So every year when Apple releases. the overpriced new iPhone, the big. carriers play the same war games. Sign up now, next two years, some big sell your contract, get. a free iPhone.

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talk.com/tucker. and you'll save an additional 50%. off your very first month That's. pure talk.com/tucker. Switch your cell service to a. company you can be proud. to do business with. How how could. four stars. How could the leadership of the. Pentagon support this. so much? You know, it's interesting. I think, again, maybe I'm. too optimistic, but like, you know, I deal with you know, I was I dealt. with a lot of four stars when I was. there. When you worked when you worked the.

Back When I worked at Pentagon, because. the thing about my job, I was like. sort of my formal title was a little. bit kind of middle, upper middle. tier. But basically I was running. the strategy, so I had a lot of. exposure. I was kind of operating. above my the sort of normal. level. So I had I got a lot of. experience. I've stayed in touch. with these people. I watch, I watch. them. Here's the thing. And you. know, there's a Kissinger I don't. think was that great of a statesman, but I think he was a brilliant. writer and sort of observer. He said something like, big. strategic shifts don't take place. just by acts of virtuosity. They reflect underlying trends. And I think you talk to people in.

the military and I keep in touch. A lot of they know what I'm saying. is like common sense for military. people. They know our readiness is. down. They know our defense. industrial base is in trouble. They know the Chinese are moving. like gangbusters. They know the. Russians aren't a joke. They know we can't afford to get. into another big Middle Eastern war. So if you show at the top level. clarity and courage as President. Trump has in charting the direction. and he has people under him who are. genuinely trying to put that into. place, I think if you build it, they. will come. And here's the other thing. Bear in mind that since 2008, the Democrats have been in control.

almost the whole time and under. Before that it was the Iraq war. group. So a lot of the people who. made it to the top of a very flat. pyramid, they know, they know how to. like here's the thing about the. military. And you look at people. like John Kelly being out there, you. know, moralizing and calling. President Trump a fascist, which is. like absurd, inappropriate and. terrible on its face. But it's also like the military. We should respect military service. I certainly do. Especially, you know, people in. combat and so forth. But, you know, the military, there's. careerism, there's promotion, people. looking after their own interests, etc.. The people at the top of the.

pyramid often are people who have. satisfied the criteria for promotion. selection. That's fine. You know, people respond to. incentives. But it's the it is it. is the most ruthless selection. process. And bear in mind, talk. about the republic, the army, the. Air, the Navy and the Marine Corps. predate the Constitution. So these are very deeply embedded. institutions that people live their. entire adult lives in them if they. get to be a four star. So you just got, again, going. to like a new left thing. You look at it sociologically, you're like, this is going to have. some pathologies. Obviously, it's a really important.

institution, but you got to like. but I think at the end of the day, this. Is going to have some pathologies. Nicely, precisely. But there are there are people in. there who want to do the right. thing, you know, or. or they can be motivated to do the. right thing. That's fantastic. People in the military and if. they're rewarded for it, they will go. They will get because. a lot of the guys who would have. want to do that, they cash out as a. colonel or a Navy captain or a one. star, you know, But if we if. we if we put the the. President Trump and his team, I. should say, they put the right.

incentives. I think I think I think. it'll get back. I must say, it's just having spent. my life in DC and just running into. the water, living near them, it was. always so noticeable. I met so many. bright, energetic, wise, I would say colonels. Yeah. But far fewer. You know, I can think of one Marine, two story new Marine general who I. thought was so impressive. I'll even say his name. Vinny Cohen is wonderful, man, but, you know, didn't meet. a lot of other flag officers. that I thought were anything.

other than politicians. I think I think. I'm sure they exist. I mean. I think I think real I'll put it. this way. Most of the real. there are some brilliant defense. guys. I'll mention a Democrat. I have a lot of respect for Bob. Work, who served in the Pentagon. His great guy was a marine colonel, retired Andrew Krepinevich, who is another brilliant guy, an. Army guy, retired. colonel, often. The guys who are really the highest. horsepower, real strategic thinkers, they cash out at that level because. that's what the selection is for. It's not to say that other people.

aren't aren't smart, but like the. people that, you know, there's it's. So noticeable and. There's a mismatch between how. people think like, you know. He has four stars. Ergo, he's like a strategic genius. No, no, that's not how the selection. process works. You know what I mean? Like, they. they're promoted for, like, running. a large a corps, an army. corps, you know, or fleet. That's different than. That's fine. But let's. Let's. understand what we're dealing with. But shouldn't the process isn't the. point of promotion. to winnow out the.

less capable. And it depends on who you're. selecting for. Well, but I think that's it. But I think, hey, how about. selecting for winning, you know? Yeah. Hey. Like that. As opposed to, like, you know, kind. of like playing the game. and saying the right things. And, you know, we don't know this. The other thing about like, you. know, I love the meme of. Mark Milley and Eisenhower. and their chests. Like, I just. Single four out of all you. Know, it's just it's just you could. speak for ten hours. And I watched Milley in that.

famous, now famous hearing talking. about white rage. I thought, this is a guy who doesn't. have any idea what he's talking. about. He's saying words he thinks. he's supposed to say. Doesn't seem terribly bright. He seems weak. Above all, he seems like the product. of a bureaucracy to me, which. probably shouldn't surprise me. And I think there's and again, to this pathology point, you know, like if you read McMaster's. memoirs, for instance, he's almost kind of lecturing the. American people about their need to. like double defense spending and.

stay in Afghanistan until the Second. Coming. And it's like it's a touch. grass kind of thing where like, you. don't have political accountability, like directly. I mean, for instance, they not only there are not elected, but people who are civilian. appointees go through political. vetting. So they have a kind of. indirect political accountability, you know, where like you have to. demonstrate loyalty and, you know, you're on on the team, etc., You. have to be aware of that. The military, they they really don't. have that. Ostensibly, although I wonder about. the left in kind of through the back. door and importing some of those. things. But so so you get.

to this point where you think that. you're like, well, I'm speaking in. front of a large group of people. because I'm a four star general. And it's like, actually, you really. have no standing to talk about that. issue at all, you know, because. that's a that's a that's a domestic. issue that you like don't have any. political finger feel for. And you're supposed to be much. more careful and modest about that. And you have no moral authority, right, to speak about anything. like that because they have no. authority apart from that granted. them by the president. Yeah, exactly. Because we have civilian control and. the president's authority comes from. voters.

Right. And by the way, and if. somebody has authority, it's like. the Audie Murphy guy, the guy in the. guys who are you talking to who are. like out there in the field in. Fallujah or whatever? They have authority, you know, But. I'm always like, you know, another. guy, Frank McKenzie, who's out there. a lot, who's constantly hammering. these points in those like, well, he. was the CentCom commander when the. Afghanistan withdrawal happened and. he didn't put his stars on. You know, if he thought there was a. better way, why didn't he put a. stars on the table? So, like, you know, like, okay. I mean, I personally supported this. Afghanistan was for all I believe. President Trump still does.

But it said that it's done terribly. and that which I think is clear. But it's like, you. know, you could you could say Dwight. Eisenhower had a kind of moral. authority. The other thing about. Dwight Eisenhower, I mean, he was. actually a smart guy. But if you look at like his. Guildhall speech and if you remember. this, but like the. unlike MacArthur, for instance, he. had a real feel for the. American people, civilian army, you know, like. they were or they were offering the. the award of the city of London. He said, I can't accept this. I accept this only on behalf of the.

great human forces. He said, you know, which is like, yeah, it's like regular guys, you know? And that's to me, that's I. try to have that mindset about like, I don't want people to get torn limb. from limb in a war with China that. we could avoid, let alone another. like or eviscerated, vaporized, vaporized in a nuclear. explosion with Russia. Of course, that means you don't. just, like, do whatever they want. Duh. But you've got to like, calibrate that balance. Always thinking about, as President. Trump has said, going back to like,

what's in the concrete interest the. American people. You've referred repeatedly to. a potential war with China. I assume that would be over Taiwan? I think. Yes, I think Taiwan. would be the focal point. But what I. think is very scary about the. Chinese and I don't think the. Chinese are behaving in it. Frankly, if you apply the way. that you were in Washington from the. period after the collapse of the. Soviet and. Right. A little bit. after. But like. No, I was there. I was there that. day. You were there. Right, exactly. I know you've talked. about this.

If you apply the same kind. of behavior that we exhibited. over the 25 to, say, 20 years after that, and you apply that model to a China. that is not constrained, that's. very scary, right? So we just have to apply the same. model to them. Because, again, to me is like a. conservative. And I don't think so. I know exactly what you're saying, but maybe that's too. subtle. Yeah, we explain precisely. what you're saying. We went from being in the 1980s, you had the Weinberger doctrine or.

President Reagan and Reagan almost. getting impeached because he was. trying to help just a proxy. group with the Contras because. people were so afraid of getting. in another Vietnam. And the biggest thing that he would. do would have meetings with the. Soviet premier on nuclear weapons. because people were like, this could. happen and I really don't want it to. happen. Right. Fast forward 15 years and. we're invading Iraq. And as you recall, the people who. were biggest fans of invading Iraq, the plan was also to go after. probably Syria and Iran and.

so forth. Informally or not. I worked for those people, as. You know. So, I mean, that was not. that was just the starting point. I'm aware. So. And that was the New American. Century. The way I interpret that is you're. going to have people like that. because we're human beings and. that's how we socialize or whatever. And if there's no constraint, No, you would have been like sent to the. loony bin in 1982 if you. invade Iraq in 2003. If you said we shouldn't invade. Iraq, you were like, even if you. were Brant Scowcroft, you were. castigated. Right.

So. And never rehabilitated, by the way. Interesting. Well, I mean, I don't. agree with them on everything, but I. mean, that sort of mindset. I agree. But you're saying. Exactly. Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, Brant Scowcroft got rich. or. Yeah, but respect. I mean, he said those things, you. know, to his own detriment. Yeah. And just on the China thing, what I would say is they care a lot. about Taiwan, but I think it's very. clear they're building a military to. go beyond Taiwan. They're building a basing. architecture to go well beyond. Taiwan. I think that's in a sense.

almost indisputable. And I think they have. interests to go beyond Taiwan. This is what worries me, is I. actually fear, ironically, that China is living out the. Leninist theory of imperialism, which is they need. captive export markets for their. overproduction. And of course, they need natural. resources and other things to. import. And so they have a rational. incentive to what the Japanese. created. The Greater East Asia. co-prosperity sphere. Every empire, formal or informal, is. not everyone, but like a lot of them.

start out as basically commercial. zones, of course, and that's what I. worry about. And again, I think the. good news is I think we can. negotiate with China about that. That's why I think President Trump's. against a lot of criticism. His willingness to be open. to negotiating a deal with. President Xi is good because we. don't we don't have an implacable. hostility or rivalry. We don't have to change. I hate communism, but like, that's up to them. And the last thing I want is. Americans dying, trying to impose. our form of government on them,

hopefully. That's pretty young, controversial. But I think I think. if we just you know, you know, Taiwan is a tough issue because the. point I've been making and I've. gotten some flak from, again, good. quarters from The Wall Street Journal. the last couple of months is like. I've been saying, we should focus on. defending Taiwan and they need to. step up. They haven't done it and we. haven't prioritized. So I think. Taiwan is on the knife's edge right. now. Now, I think we want to avoid a war. over that if we possibly can. And President Trump has said a. war, an attack on Taiwan isn't going. to happen under my watch. So I think it is absolutely. incumbent upon whoever.

is working for him to make sure that. doesn't happen. Combining a strong shield. with a rational defensive. policy and a kind of political. message to China that convinces. them that, look, you're better off. with peace. The Wall Street Journal attacked. you? Yeah. So they. How long will the Wall Street. Journal kind of be considered. the preeminent place where, quote, conservative intellectuals. explain their views? I think they're in I think they're. actually in trouble. Honestly, I. you know, I read them, but they are.

so far out of whack. I mean, so on my on the national. security foreign policy issues, they. are total premises. at this in the same breath, often. they'll say our military is in. terrible shape, but we need to have. aggressive policies in like four. different theaters. It makes no. sense. It's incoherent. Right. On their. way out of step on the conservative. Republican views on like trade, we're like Lighthizer and Navarro. and the president are. They can't stand you know, they've. been repeatedly criticized, people. like you, like Vice President Vance. or I feel like I'm an honored to be.

in this company. So it's sort of like, you know, obviously they reflect a certain. part of the, you know, American. population, which is sort of, you. know, wealthier professionals. who are probably more socially. liberal. You sell a corridor in New. York, etc.. But I think a lot of people read. them because they matter. Right. But at some point you get so. far out of whack that you actually. become a liability. You know, they were big backers of. Nikki Haley and so forth. So, you know, I think we need but. then with the rise of new media, I. mean, you've been a pioneer in this, but others, you know, and Elon.

and what he's done with X and. you know, and David Sacks and these. kind of people, I think there's hope. that like, not only this is not. going to matter as much, but it may. become less and less relevant. It seems like the Drudge Report. to me, you know, you have. in your mind that this you know, I mean, Drudge went from, well, judges, of course, sold to left. wingers. They've never been at that. But I believe that's true. But The Wall Street Journal in some. sense has been also I mean, they. don't I. don't know people who imagine The.

Wall Street Journal is conservative. or sort of like haven't been paying. attention. It's like the socially liberal. fiscal conservative. Yeah, they're. There. And they were like mocking. President Trump in the interview. I thought that was pretty lame. And kind of it's a really dishonest. newspaper and I'm rooting for its. demise. I just want to say that. I mean, I hope. It could get really. Funny. You know, you're right. You're totally right. We've seen. enough institutions destroyed. I just I do think. it's really a garbage newspaper. And and I wish more people. realized that.

I can't control myself. Right. Out of control. So when do. you think it'll be. clear? Like who's. administering Trump's foreign. policy? I mean, I just. I honestly don't know. I mean, it's obviously up to him. But you know what? What I would say is. I hope he makes, you know, picks. people who will implement the vision. that he ran on and that, yes, you. and others have supported him so. ably about as just.

as sincerely as an American. I mean, even if I'm not part of it. or I'm dogcatcher or whatever, I. mean, that I think if honestly, if if the premises. types who could get us into multiple. wars, get in there, you're. going to have to get to a more. realistic foreign policy. Eventually they'll destroy Trump. Or destroy people. Like Pompeo, whom I know personally. hate Trump. They hate Trump. And, you know, I don't care what. he says or Lindsey Graham says, always so great. You know, they suck up to him on Fox. News, but they hate him and they're.

working to undermine him. And they did throughout his four. years in office and the four years. that followed, they undermined him. because they hate him. So I, I. just hope that. there is a new generation in. the Republican Party of people who. maybe aren't even ideological, but. just put. In common sense. Yeah, America's interest, Americans. is the whole point of our. government. I think there is a new generation, people in their 20s and 30s. I'm very hopeful. I mean, I talk to a lot of them. What I'm worried about is that I. don't think there's any I mean, you.

maybe like and while Trump. is like an exception, but, you know, you look at a guy like Vice. President Vance, he's only, I think, 40. Yes. You know, a lot of the best. senators, you know, are much. younger. Yeah. You look at Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt, amazing. Jim Banks, you know, younger guys. like, you know, and the problem is. people just naturally like, well, we. need somebody to 65 or whatever. And it's sort of like but I think. it's even worse than than than what. you're suggesting because like, you. know, let's say we get in a big. Middle Eastern war and. you have people who are talking.

about an independent Taiwan or. regime change in China or regime. change in Russia, and we get bogged. down. Why wouldn't the Chinese. attack like just I mean, thinking. about think, apply how we behave. the Project for New American Century. style thinking and just think that. those people will be in the. ascendancy in Beijing. The way I think about it, suckers. like we're like a heavyweight boxer. and China's another heavyweight. boxer. Russia's like a middleweight. And maybe North Korea and Iran. or like, you know, Welterweights or. Featherweights or whatever those. guys can they can tear you out.

And China can call us to a match. at any time. At any time. And if we're not ready, that is like terrible, you know? And so at. that point, we would have to. put a more realistic foreign policy. But in my view, and this is I. I think a real point to the kind. of people read The Wall Street. Journal op ed page. The point that I. would make to them is if. we go down this path. of aggressive policies. in 3 or 4 different theaters of the. world without the backing, we will end up bloodied and bruised.

We will have catastrophic defeat. Lots of Americans will be killed. And the American people may very. well say, I'm done, I'm done. This is, you know, all the. rules based international order. This is what it led to. Forget about it. And that if you want to save it, if you want to save something, I. think I think mine is like the. reform rather than the radical. upheaval. Mine is like, hey, no, I believe in the post war. I just don't believe in the post. 1989 absurd hubris. going around the people. Yeah, we can out the Cold War and I.

keep going back to it. But just like. I just wrote because like, you know, Senator McConnell will talk about. Eisenhower all the time and I'm. like, Dude, Eisenhower thought. that if there were U.S. troops in. Europe at the end of the 1950s, it. was a failure. He's the one who came. up with the Uncle sucker line, not. President Trump. So you want to talk about the Cold. War legacy? We were pretty ruthless. You know, the Germans attacked us. Excuse me. Sound like John Belushi. The Japanese attacked us in 1941, and we let the Soviets do the bulk. of the fighting. And we put Germany. first. Why? Because and I'm glad, as. a descendant of people who are. in the European theater of.

operations, I'm glad that the. Soviets. But George Shultz, when he went and dealt with his. counterpart, he he visit he wrote. about this very movingly. He went to the cemetery in Leningrad. and he offered a somber salute. And I had the honor to meet Shultz a. couple of times. And this was not a you know, he's. you have strong views and so forth. But I think you can respect. that, you know, and understand. that we can be hard nosed and look. at your opponents and say, we don't want to war. We've told you before about Hello. It is a great app that.

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So if you're busy on the road headed. to kids sports, there is always time. to pray and reflect alone or as. a family. But it's hard to be. organized about it. Building a foundation of prayer is. going to be absolutely critical as. we head into November, praying that. God's will is done in this country. and that peace and healing. come to us here in the United States. and around the world. Christianity obviously is attacked. under attack everywhere. That's not an accident. Why is Christianity the most. peaceful of all religions under.

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Tucker. What happened. to all the Bush people? You were here for that? Yeah. I'm not just to. President Bush and his family are. pretty clear for Kamala Harris, but. But all the people who staff that. administration, do all of them still. buy those ideas, those 20. year old ideas or have any come. around to your position? That's a it's a great question. because I know a lot of em is like. you. I like a lot of them, you know, some of them know. I admire some I don't admire others. And people are going, you know, a.

lot of them put flags in the ground. with the the foolish and. inappropriate never trump letters in. 2016. And they're kind of so their hands. are a bit tied. So I don't know how they would. behave in a vacuum. I think you see sort of various. stages of grief. I mean, various people kind of. adapting in different in different. ways or not adapting. Some people are kind of like. unreconstructed, some. are kind of like resigned to where. things are going. You know what's funny about the. bush? I mean, I don't I mean, you. remember this better than I do, but. I remember like Bush ran on a.

more humble foreign policy. I know. You know, I mean, actually, what. Trump saying is not that radically. different from the kind of Bush vibe. which was against the crusading. progressivism of Bill Clinton. Now, he ended up totally abandoning. that. Unfortunately, it is. eternal discredit. And in a sense, he be he was a. progressive. He was he was armed. progressive, as in Bill Kristol is. Let's let's fight the end of. history, you know, basically, which. is like that's not in any way. And I mean conservative. I'm not not like angel dancing. on the head of a pin. It's not. common sense. Right.

But I think I think a lot. of those people, it's probably. it's going to be hard to incorporate. them. You know, they're sort of two. and, you know, sociologically, again, it's. they're invested in in the old. model. And so I think we're going to need. the trouble is. that all the credentialing has been. on that side. And so all of it almost all. of it. I mean, I'm not to make. anything myself, but like I'm a rare. and I was I was teetering. on the maybe passing over to the.

edge of respectability or whatever. the mainstream is, you know, for. years. And, you know, I think what I find, though, encouraging, Tucker, is I and this. is where I mean, we can ask you. You went to Groton and Harvard. Great. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Well, so are you the only person. in the world who went to Groton in. Harvard? You voted for Donald Trump? You know, I don't think so. Actually. If I go out at Harvard. roommate. It was a decade ago. I think there are a few others. I mean, you know, I mean, okay, so. you got me I you know, people. say this sometimes. I think they.

said about you, too. It's like I. you're from an elite background. How can you not support the elite? And I'm always like, the elite is. supposed to work for the public. interest. And by the way, that was. the model. Teddy Roosevelt was. behind the founding of Groton. School, which I went there. I have very fond memories. A lot of people who are associated. with that hate Donald Trump. But everything I proudly. support him. But I think the whole point is to. sure, you know, his service is. perfect freedom. The idea is public. service is putting the interests. of the public ahead. And so to be honest, I. find the current established. I look at Morning Joe or something. and I'm like, this is not what.

America deserves, okay? So I have the same perspective and I. would see more the identical. perspective. And I would say that. nobody reforms. the system. Who doesn't understand. the system? Yeah, you're always. going to have a Teddy Roosevelt. saved capitalism in the United. States by. And he was hated by his peers by. Restraining the monopoly. Exactly. And the only reason he was. able to do that was because he was. pushing back against his own class. Understood them. Right. Right. So, no, I'm not attacking. you for going to fight in Harvard. I'm I'm rather saying.

I think it's essential that you. understand. J.D. Vance hated. Trump 20 Yale Law School. started going up to the Aspen. Institute to speak in the summer, find the people there so repulsed. She's like, he. Has become their nightmare. Exactly. Because he knows who they. are. Right. He had dinner with David. Brooks many times. Exactly. So anyway, totally, totally. And I think like and I think like. that's you know, I love this this. clip of Maggie Goodlander getting. called out by this. You know, it should be challenged if. you're like anybody should be.

subject to challenge. And that's what's so great about. like action podcasts. Maggie Goodlander. Embarrassed, I think so. I'm not sure and I'm like not. picking on her particularly, but. like, you know, there's a fair. point. But I mean, my, my view is. and it's apropos because the other. woman, I think, was I think she's. her family's from China. But, you know, even under Mao, I. mean, the ultimate egalitarian. system, there is an assumption there. is an elite French. And of course, Xi Jinping is a. product of. That elite Dogs create hierarchies. You're always going to have a. hierarchy. So the question is not do. you have a ruling class?

Is it getting a ruling? Is it good? Is it do you have a good. really class or do you have Jake. Sullivan and Tony Blinken? That's the best one. Is the other thing, you know. And I don't want to cry too much of. a river here, but like, they are the. establishment and they act. in like a sociologically. conservative way. They're all going. to leave office and they're all. going to get great jobs on Wall. Street and they're all going to go. to law firms and whatever. And so the people who are taking on. The establishment are and are taking. the slings and arrows and hopefully. metaphorically alone. But to me, that's the point.

That's what that's what you're. supposed to do. If you if you know, as the Bible. says, to whom much is given, much is. expected. I strongly agree with that. And I think you're a model of that, honestly. And I'm not just saying. that. Well, no. But I believe I really. believe in that. And I'm just I'm. just so offended by I'm so offended. by the mediocrity and. stupidity of our ruling class that I. just can't and I don't care if they. kill me, I will never stop. No way. And that's your worst. courageous. So-. Elbridge Colby. I I'm rooting for. you fervently. I just wanted to make sure everyone.

knows who you are and what you. think. This process is taking place. privately as it has to. But I also think that people who. voted for Trump because. they want a calmer world, they don't want the United States or. him to be destroyed in wars. I think they should know what's. going on. So I hope this provides. a little sunlight. Thank you very much, my friend. Bless you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for watching. You can go to TuckerCarlson.com. for our entire library of.

everything we've done and we hope. you will.