Murder, Drugs and Cover-Ups: Military Insider Exposes the Criminal Cartel Within the US Navy SEALs

Thanks for doing this. >> Thank you, Tucker. >> You've had a really varied life, I would. say. And you have devoted the last several, maybe seven years of it to a man called. Job Price and his memory and discovering. the truth about how his life ended. Who was he? >> It's an interesting story. He and I were classmates at Pottsville. High School. We graduated together in. 1989, but we weren't friends.

>> Like we outside of Philadelphia? >> Yes, outside of Philadelphia. And uh. we knew each other in the same classes, but we didn't socialize outside of. school. And. but he was the the bar, right? It's. academically, athletically, he was the. bar everybody was trying to reach. He. was brilliant. He was a three-sport uh. star in school and. he was just he was for me personally, he. was my my academic rival. And I we both were on the.

I at one point time I was on the the. track to be going to a military academy. and he ended up going to the Air Force. Academy. Graduated from there and then. transferred his commission to the Navy. cuz he wanted to be a Navy SEAL. Um but he was. kind of a goofy guy. He wasn't tough. He. didn't have a hard edge to him. Kind of boy scoutish. >> Yes. >> Um. but everybody everybody was drawn to. him. He just had that kind of. personality.

And so going Navy SEAL was actually not. anything I would have had on my bingo. card. He didn't. that wasn't his tough like you would. think Navy SEAL there would be a whole. lot more. harder edge personality and he just he. he wasn't that, but but he made a good. career out of it. >> So he graduates Air Force Academy, what. happens to his life after that? >> He transfers his commission to the Navy, which I didn't even know you could do. Um. goes to BUD/S, which is the first thing.

you have to do when you go to become a. Navy SEAL. Um. And he he spent 19 and 1/2 years in. before he died and was 6 months away. from his pension. And. by all accounts was on the Admiral. track. He was supposed to go to school. up in Rhode Island in June of 2013. Um. because that's I guess a prerequisite. for for what the Naval War College. Yeah. So, um. he excelled at every level, which is not. surprising. Um.

But you know, in in this and I've I'm. learning all this over the last 7 years, but in the SEALs you don't. if you're an officer, you have to fill. certain billets, certain roles on your. your trajectory. upward. So, there's certain boxes you. got to check. You serve in this role, you serve in that role, and then they. want you if you're going to become an. Admiral, you have to run a team. So, he. became the commander of SEAL Team 4. Um which is one of the East Coast. uh Virginia Beach SEAL teams. The even. numbers are East Coast, the.

odds are West. And uh. right after he got command, they got. deployed to Afghanistan in 2012. Um. And then he died December 22nd, 2012 in. Afghanistan. >> [clears throat]. >> After how many months in the country? >> Uh I believe they got there in. September. So, 3 months, roughly. >> So, tell us the um Did he have a family, by the way? >> Yes. He had um a daughter who was 9 and his.

wife um. He loved his wife and his child his. child very much. And uh you know, this. was he died 3 days before Christmas. >> So, give us the Wikipedia version of how. he died. What's the official version? >> The official version is suicide. Um they say that the deployment was a it. was a. it was in the middle of the war of of. GWOT era. 2012 was smack dab in the. middle and. um he had a couple guys get killed uh. >> [clears throat]. >> SEALs and then had a couple Army guys.

get killed separate all separate. incidents, but. um. he struggled a little bit with that, and. they said he was depressed, and. uh. you know, I I've been depressed, and. we're sitting here talking. I didn't. kill myself. So, it's not a There's not. a direct link between depression and. suicide. Um. But, he was found in his bunk. with a gunshot wound to his head, and. the gun still in his hand. And, you know, to a layman, that that.

may look like suicide. >> Yep. >> And, for a lot of years, that's just. what it was, until. >> deployments did he have? >> I'm going to say 14 total, but not not. all to war zones, but for they. deployments have a. they do a mission, but it's not. necessarily a wartime mission. They'll. do a porting of. commercial vessel that's, you know, need. pirates or on or whatever. So, um. >> [clears throat]. >> But, he had done a one in Iraq and one. in Afghanistan, but this this was his.

first command level deployment. So, they just said he was depressed and. decided to take his life. >> How old was he? >> 42. >> Career naval officer, Commander Seal. Team Four, kills himself. Is that a. common profile? >> It's never happened. >> Right. >> Um. >> So, the guys that kill themselves in the. military is like some. PFC. drunk. I mean, there's a lot of suicide in the. military, obviously. >> Not many in theater, though. >> And of And of all.

command level officers. >> Zero. >> Right. >> In in the entire GWOT era. He would have been the only one. Um. And that's, you know, I I when I heard. it was suicide, again, I wasn't I didn't. have an emotional connection to Joe. We. didn't weren't tight. >> Yep. >> So, I was sad, obviously, but I didn't. have this visceral response. >> Right. >> that I felt like I needed to mourn or. anything like that. It just was what it. was, and I went on my with my life until. 2019 when his family. >> history? >> None.

Zero. There there was There was no. um notes, there was no conversations. there was no. forewarnings of any type that he had any. inclination to to kill himself. >> Was he intoxicated when he died? >> No, he had. and this is he was a vehemently was. against medicines. Yeah, like he just. didn't like taking medicines but. apparently he. was on Valium. Benadryl.

and. Tramadol. That was in his system. Um. totally not normal for him and only one. of them was actually on the books. prescribed. So. we don't know where the other. >> Which one was prescribed? >> The Valium he cuz he wasn't sleeping. Yeah, low dose very low dose Valium. Um. Yeah, and over there it's not like. good with CVS here. I mean there's. but there is there is a a tracking.

mechanism to who gets issued what for. what but I'm sure there is. moments where that's not recorded but. Job would not. want it not recorded. Like that's not. his he's the commander. It's he does he. sets the tone he's he's the guy that. that follows all the rules. And so I just. I'm not 100% sure. if those were prescribed to him or not. >> Why was his name Job? >> I. I didn't ask his dad this but knowing.

his dad. that he died 2 years ago unfortunately. but I got to really know him he was a. great man. And. knowing their their faith. and knowing their. the family knit nature of of their. family it's just Job his sister and mom. and dad. He was named after the the biblical. character Job. He exhibit if you knew Job you knew the. story of Job you be like that's that. guy. >> Really? >> Yeah.

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after this impressive career. He kills. himself in Afghanistan as the leader of. SEAL Team 4. And at what point do you decide maybe. that's not true. >> I immediately didn't think it was true. only because it didn't fit who he was. Like that just it made no sense to me. But again, I didn't have a reason to. to spend a lot of time on it. And but. 2019, I was I had a podcast at the time. and I wanted to have his sister on. to basically say who Joe was to her. Um.

not just not a bio thing but just like. my brother was this person, you know, I. wrote a book about my brother because I. wanted my brother's name to be. remembered forever. And uh. I wanted her to have that ability to. have something that she could have then. a recording of and her telling her. brother's story. And uh she said to me, "Can we meet with my dad first?" Like, "Okay." So, I go over there and. he hands me a three-ring binder with 356. pages of. military reports and says, "This is.

Jeb's death book." And I don't think he. committed suicide. I said, "Okay." And he goes, "Will you. take a look at it?". I was still a cop at the time and. I said, "Certainly." And I said, "But I. I need to be real honest with you. If if. I think it's suicide, I'm going to tell. you it's suicide.". He goes, "That's fair enough. I just. want somebody that I trust to to look at. it." So, I looked at it for about a. week. >> common, as you know as a cop, to hear. from surviving family members of someone. who commit suicide, "I don't think it. was suicide.". >> Right. Oh, everybody that's that's a.

>> Yeah, I've heard it a million times. >> So, [clears throat]. I review it for about a week. and what I realized was is that. basically the the book, the death book, was like a puzzle. The box on the cover has a picture. And. the pages in between were supposed to. make me believe that the. that Jeb killed himself. And. what I got was a thousand-piece puzzle. set with 250 pieces. So, I couldn't. create the picture. that Jeb killed himself. So, I told his.

dad, I said, "I can't. say it's suicide based on the. information that's in this book. Um I would need to dig more." And he. goes, "Do you mind doing that?" I said, "No, I don't." He goes, "Do you want me. to pay you?" I said, "I I don't sell. hope.". I said, "So, I I don't need any money. I'll just do this." And at the time, I. wasn't expecting 7 years of my life. devoted to it, but. um I thought I was just going to do a. little digging and search the internet. and find some information. >> Thankfully, we don't have a clear. picture of the path before us. >> Yes. >> [laughter].

>> It would have been a hard stop, probably. I'm not going to lie. Um. so, yeah, I I it just began this this. journey for truth in defining out what. happened to Jeb. And the more I got. exposed to sources and you know there's. a there's a group of people that have. been. investigating Navy SEAL corruption from. former members of the community, intelligence agencies, federal and and. state law enforcement that are all in. this little network of people that have. been doing this for three decades since.

Marcinko. Um. who was. creator of SEAL Team Six, famed SEAL. Um dirty as the day is long, but um. once I got into that network, I was. exposed to them. I got exposed to. everything. >> I I don't want to sidetrack you, but can. you just give us the Marcinko overview, the Wikipedia version? >> Yeah, he was uh you know. creator of SEAL Team Six, which is dev. development group. Yep. Um the elite. tier one element of Navy SEALs.

And uh. he he created the brand of the Navy. SEALs. He wrote books. Um. I read so I can't I. I know I've never read any of his books. to be honest with you, but they're. they're all. how do you make a SEAL look good 101? And uh. but he was I mean he was in the Epstein. files. Um. well known that he was running drugs and. and women with Puerto Cartels. Um which is a a common thing too with.

special operations guys going down and. whether it's for guns for hire or. whatever, but training cartels in. tactics and techniques and procedures, which. you would think it's probably. counterproductive. to the sovereignty of our country, but. who am I to judge? But Dick Marcinko was. the creator of the Navy SEAL brand. >> And it you believe it's been established. that he was corrupt in a deep way. >> Very much so. Um. and again, I'm not a.

firsthand witness to any of that, but. having spoken to people who were, it's very clear that he was the. godfather of of all of it. He had. he had a very. deep and influential. um control over a lot of. pieces of the Navy SEAL brand and then. also our government. Like he had. he was just very, very wily and. conniving and smart. He's gone. He. passed a couple years ago, yeah. But up until his death, he was still.

very much. an integral part of like things didn't. happen without his blessing. So. Interesting. >> Yeah. I think most people are totally. unaware of that. >> Yeah. It's Listen, I was. >> I was unaware of it. >> So So you basically got pulled into this. story because the father of your. classmate asked you to. to take a closer look at what happened. >> Yeah. And And once I reviewed it and. told him I'd start digging, I said, "Here's I can promise you.

I said I'll I'll find the answer." I. said, "And I won't stop until I do.". >> With that said, what do you think now, having spent 7 years looking at this? Um. what do you think happened. to Job Price? >> I know with 100% certainty he did not. kill himself. Um. the one thing and and I'll and once we. get to the actual details of the crime, um you'll you'll see it clearly, but. yeah. Forensics.

there's certain things you can do to. make a scene look a certain way. and still screw it up. And Job's body was staged. Um nobody. heard a gunshot in an occupied building. um overnight where there was an. operation center that was 24/7 right on. the other side of the wall of his. bedroom. in a war zone. Nobody heard a gunshot. Um the gun Job was holding was not. suppressed. It was unable to be. suppressed, didn't have a threaded. barrel. It's a SIG 226.

Um In 9 mm. 9 mm and. um. >> [clears throat]. >> he was shot. in the same position that he slept in. every night. He was naked, which is how he slept. Um on his left side with a pillow in the. crook of his left arm. And that's how he was shot. And. Yep. I've been on a lot of suicides in my. career. and it's not all, but I will tell you. that a vast majority of suicides have.

some It's either immediately reactionary. where like you walk in on your wife. having an affair and you go out and kill. yourself. Um but most of the time it's. if there's a pre-planning involved you. wouldn't pre-plan it to do it while. you're sleeping. >> [snorts]. >> Just doesn't The. The scene didn't make sense and that was. the first thing that stuck out to me. when I saw the crime scene photos was it. just didn't make sense. And he was found He was shot on his left. side so he was shot from the right to. the left uh downward in a 45° angle.

But he was found laying on his back with. the gun still in his hand across his. chest and his head facing to the right. Which is the opposite of the direction. his head was in when he was shot. >> [snorts]. >> Um that to me I couldn't figure out like. just physics how his body could have. gotten there. Um and then there was just. missing pieces. There was no ballistics. reports in the the documents that I was. given by the father and. uh. no gunshot residue testing lab results,

no DNA. trace evidence, you know, blood, skin, hair. testing done. Um At least I didn't have. the reports for it. And that took me. almost 4 years to get. Um because you just keep getting kicked. down the lane when you do FOIAs and if. you're not pulling the exact right. department of the exact right agency, you're not going to get the answer. you're looking for. So. finally I was able to get those reports. and those reports told me that. Joe had been killed himself. And there was no gunshot residue testing.

done on his hands. Which is the only place you really need. to do GSR testing on is to prove whether. somebody shot a a gun or not. Um there was not no proof that Joe had. fired a gun. Which is vital to. concluding either someone did or did not. kill himself. There was no. um. testing done. for I'm. not geographic, but when you commit. suicide with a contact wound, there's. going to be an a reverse.

explosion coming outward for blood, hair, skin, brain, bone is going to come. back because of the gases as they hit a. solid contact. It just spreads out and. then the impact in the. the velocity of the bullet and it just. creates blood and everything. [clears throat] coming back at you. So, there was very little blood on Joe. On his hand. that his his right hand um. and the [clears throat] gun was never. tested for any of those trace evidence. things. So, for me that that's a.

Why wouldn't you test it? Like how would you not want to know that. that was the gun? And then the ballistics only thing the. ballistics showed was the gun, the. bullet, and the casing that was found. came from that gun. But there was no proof that that gun was. ever used in that room. They had these um. in order to keep people from having. accidental uh negligent discharges, they. had like a. a place where you can pull your trigger. and make sure your gun's cleared and so. you're not going into the the. the. building with a loaded weapon.

Very easily you can empty that. Take that gun, fire it in there, retrieve the bullet, retrieve the casing, and the gun and put. it in the room and it Yes, they they go. together, but doesn't mean they were. ever used in the commission of any type. of violent act. And so, those were. things that really. started to shape things up for me. Um but it wasn't until, you know, I. Let me back up real quick. One thing and. this will just astound you. And listen, I understand NCIS on TV is.

not NCIS in real life. When Joe was found dead. at 9:30-ish in the morning. by the same guy that found him last saw. him alive. And they everybody, you know, you got. all the other command staff people and. they all. agreed Joe was dead, brought in the NCIS. agent who just happened to be in the. building and the doc. to pronounce him dead. Um, typically in law enforcement, if you. have a crime scene, because at this.

point when you find somebody dead, it's. a crime scene until it's proven not to. be a crime. >> Right. >> Um, they all agree he's dead. They leave. The NCIS agent locks the. door and gives the key to the guy that. found him dead, who was a SEAL, and said, "Don't let anybody in this. room. We'll be back with more guys.". And 9 hours later, NCIS came back. So, for 9 hours, Joe's body laid there. in his bed,

in his room, with all of the suspects. having access to that room. And in law enforcement, once it's a. crime scene, it's your crime scene. There's no relinquishing it to non-law. enforcement till properly relieved. That's a crime scene, and law. enforcement must be in control of it at. all times, or else any evidence that. would come from it, if there's if a. crime had occurred, you wouldn't be able. to prove anything cuz it would all be. fruit of the poisonous tree. You. couldn't you couldn't use it. There was. no crime scene integrity, um, chain of custody of evidence. Like, you. just couldn't.

nothing could ever be proven, which was. their. greatest. knowing now that it was a homicide, the. greatest thing they did was create a an. uh, scenario where evidence could never. point to them. >> So, imagine being president knowing that. anything you do could determine the fate. of the world. That's exactly the. situation that Reagan faced at the. height of the Cold War. The stakes. couldn't have been higher. Angel. Studios' new movie, The Brink of War, brings that moment in history to life. for modern audiences. Both the US and. the Soviet Union possessed enough. nuclear weapons to destroy each other,

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and the NCIS agent told same guy that. found him dead, the command master chief, his name was. Jeff Pieler. Um. and I say was for a reason. He was told not to touch Job's body. And. Job's body gets taken out by the medical. people, and the NCIS agent forgot to put uh a. bloody bed sheet in his with his. belongings that go into the body bag, so. it can all get tested when it goes back.

to. Dover for the medical examiner. And when he walked in, they were washing Job's entire body. from head to toe. They took the bags off his hands, scrubbed his hands, washed every part of his body, literally all evidence down the drain. >> Who is they? >> Um the medical people at the direction. of Jeff Pieler. And Jeff's excuse was he wanted Job to. have a dignified return flight home.

The problem is they put the evidence. bags new evidence bags back on his. hands, which is a a deceitful thing. Like if. you remove evidence bags, wash. somebody's hands, and put new evidence. bags on, you want whoever is going to be. receiving that body to think that. they've been. not touched. >> Right. >> That's the assumption that. the evidence bag sealed. present. Um. So all those things, and I knew those. there's a lot of those things early on. Um minus the reports that I didn't have.

Which were, you know, the big red flags. You know, 9 hours of unsecured crime. scene is a big problem for me as a. police officer. Um. But in 2024, um. I started to get some traction on some. podcasts. And people were knowing more about Joe. and. you know, I would talk about a lot of. things, but always Joe was the focus. of the the episodes that I was on. And. forensic people. who follow these more of the the vet bro.

podcast world. started to reach out to me and ask if. they. if I'd let them take a look at the. everything I had. Once I vetted who they. were, I had no problem doing that. More eyes. the better. I'm not a forensics guy, I'm. just a cop. And uh. I had five four forensic investigators, so guys that actually work crime scenes. And then a uh forensic I'm going to get. his title exactly right.

Um forensics. criminology. um. He's a forensic science and and PhD in. criminology. His name is Brent Turvey, who is uh was. recently on the. Idaho. four college kids that were murdered by. Yeah. So, he was he worked for the. defense on that as a as their forensic. expert, one of their forensic experts. But anyways, he reviewed it, too. And every single one of them, the four.

investigators and the. the doctor guy, all concluded that it. was murder. >> [clears throat]. >> So, all of the things that I knew as my. gut wise, just from experience, I knew. now that. I hadn't been convincing myself of. something that wasn't true. Now I know. that it's true. And then I've spent the last 2 years. trying to get the United States. government to. care. And reopen the case. I've had. Congress people write letters to. the Navy, and the Navy keeps coming. back, "We're We're satisfied with our.

investigation. If he wants to send in any information, he can send it through the tip line. Which I'm sure. >> Through the tip line. >> Quickly will be responded to. >> Yeah. >> The unmonitored tip line. >> Yes. >> Um. Okay, so what you're describing, if. true, would be a fairly complex. operation. And so it would require. motive, I would think. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Why go to the trouble to murder a man. and cover it up and take the risk again. uh all of that without a real reason.

And what would the reason be, do you. think? >> Well, it's evolved. Um initially. I was looking at it from a. individual moment perspective, like this. happened, which caused this. This. happened, which caused that. Um there were multiple things that. happened on that deployment that. um. could have played a role in in someone. or some group of people wanting to hurt. Job. Um when Job, before he deployed as the.

commander of SEAL Team 4, he went to the. same area to cuz SEAL Team 2 was the. team they relieved. And he was there just sort of getting. the lay of the land, meeting with their. commander, knowing the locals, um meeting the the police chief, the guy. in charge of the province, who's a. terrorist. Um. and just getting to understand what's. going on. And at this time, in June of. 2012, there was a an Afghan detainee. that was killed by four SEALs.

And. >> What while detained? >> While detained, yeah. Tortured and. killed. Um. and Job was brought in on that to. look over. the evidence and make his. recommendation, not official, but the. commander of SEAL Team 2 wanted his. input. And Job recommended court-martial for. all of them. And during this the same period of time. the Taliban there was intercept uh.

signal intercept of chatter of them. talking about wanting to get retribution. against the SEALs for what they did to. one of their villagers. >> Now, why did why was he killed, the. detainee? >> They thought Well, they they said he. that he was a suspect in a in an a bomb. going off. Yeah. Um but it wasn't. He. wasn't the person. They landed up. letting him go and he died 2 hours after. they let him go back in his village. >> From his injuries? >> From his injuries, yeah. So, fast forward to November uh when Job was. now commander of SEAL Team 4 and they.

already relieved SEAL Team 2 and they. moved the forward operating base from. where it was to about 60 km away, but. still within the the operating. area of the the local Taliban. And um one of his guys was killed in an. ambush. And uh that was the the retribution. for what happened with their villager. with SEAL Team 2. And Job was unaware of this signals. intelligence that was intercepted that. there was a potential. for for that type of event to happen. Um.

And also at this period of time, you. know, it's 2012, winning hearts and minds was important. for many reasons, some not valid. And village stability operations were. happening all the time and you're. they're trying to help these villagers. and. get them. you know, sustaining themselves and. um interfacing with the local mullahs. and things of that nature. Well, Job had to deal with this guy named. Matullah Khan.

who was the local police chief in. Nuristan province, very powerful man, former. you know, drug smuggler and human. trafficker before he became the police. chief, quote unquote. And one of the things that Job really. struggled with was having to deal with. this guy because he knew that there was. underage kids being trafficked. um and that drugs, you know, this is I. think you had John Kiriakou on. >> Yep. >> talking about the poppy fields and how. the CIA paid. you know, farmers in Afghanistan to not. grow crops and grow poppies.

And by 2012, 93% of the. heroin in the world was coming out of. the poppy fields of Afghanistan. And it was a but it's a very well-known. fact that the SEALs, part of their. responsibility was to protect. those poppy fields. >> Owning a home has always been the core. of the American dream. It's the asset. that families work their lives to build, place of stability, security, and actual wealth. But too many. homeowners right now are stuck swiping. credit cards to cover groceries, paying.

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would the US government promote heroin? >> Uh. >> Opium. >> Uh you know, >> [snorts]. >> That's a deep deep conversation. But. it's, you know, similar to Viet-. Vietnam, right? So, like there's always. been a a desire to. uh. neuter. people, whether it's their will to. thrive or whatever. And drugs are a very. very good way to do that. >> Yeah, I'm I'm seeing it in our own.

country. We're being neutered. [clears throat] by drugs on purpose. >> And I think, you know, whether it was intended for Americans to. be neutered or. the enemy in Russia or China or wherever. that they were planning on having that. where that wherever that was going the. the 93% was going around the world. wasn't just coming to America. So there. probably is some. >> Yeah. >> But it's probably that simple is if you. seek to dominate people get them on. drugs. >> Yeah. >> That I mean that's the you know if you. see a red car it's a red car, right? So. for me Occam's razor I guess that's.

called. >> that's right. >> Um so Job struggled with that and I. think um ultimately the thing that got. him killed while there was an incident. where one of the guys in his unit had um. raped a an Afghani teen. and. uh another guy who was a former SEAL. Team 6 guy who rolled in from SEAL Team. 2 was attached to two and then got given. to Job as well. was stealing AFSOT money which is the. CIA money that special operations would.

get and they're using it to pay off. people. >> leaders, yeah. The the. >> famous pallets of hundred dollar bills. >> Mhm. >> Um but back to something you just said, one of his men one of his SEALs in SEAL. Team 4 raped an Afghan girl. >> Yeah. >> assume. >> Yeah. >> Was he um court-martialed for this? >> No. Um cuz. so Job was struggling with a lot of. things. Like a lot of things had to be. dealt with. Three days before he died he. talked with his wife and he said she.

asked how he was doing he said yeah. there's a lot of things happening that. I'm going to have to deal with when I. get back. And she didn't she knew you know she's. the wife of a SEAL commander so she. knows not to ask. Right. specific questions um. and. roughly two weeks before he died the. entire hierarchy of Group 2 which is the. overseeing entity of the East Coast. SEALs. Um Tim Szymanski was the admiral. Um and two other uh high-level.

people within Group 2 came to. Afghanistan and met with Job. For like a very short trip. And I have witness statements um stating. that there was a a heated argument. between Tim Smanski and Job. a few days. you know, 10 days, 2 weeks before his death. If If I had to, you know, I don't have. specific proof of this, but if I had to. guess what that conversation was about, it was about Job wanting to.

report everything. that happened. From the rape to the stolen money to the. mula. you know, trafficking drugs and kids and. the poppy fields and the. And I think he was told, cuz he was, like I said earlier, he was on the. admiral tract. And I think they said, "If you want to have a career, you're just going to keep your mouth. shut and you're going to. get your next. gig after you're done being the. commander of SEAL Team 4 and. you'll go to college in June and you'll. become an admiral.".

>> So, big picture, what we're seeing is 11. years into the Afghan war, order and. discipline are starting to break down, people are getting cynical. You know, it's just like what happens if. a war goes on long enough. It's not. really about what it started. >> No. >> uh. in response to, so. >> And that's, you know, I I am not critical. Like, I understand. war. I I understand the mechanics of it. >> Yep. >> Um and I I'm not necessarily. uh criticizing the SEALs for doing their. jobs in battle. Like, that you may go.

over the line a couple times, you may. cross. >> 11 years, things are likely to fall. apart. >> and I think you send people out enough. times to do animal stuff, they become. animals. And. >> Boy, that's the truest thing ever said. >> I think that's I. having the luxury of being exposed to. many events that have occurred over the. last 20 years within the SEAL community, that's that's the most logical. cause and effect. Um and then but then. there's a sinister side to it where.

there is, you know, uh a mafia level. hierarchy within the Navy SEALs on the. corrupt side that will use guys. I had. an I had a SEAL Team 6 guy bare sold to. me. telling me about how on ops they were. told to kill everybody. Women, children, everybody on a on a. target they were at. And. that after they did that. they were then asked to do things like.

take this to this person, this mole us. And when they say they don't want to do. that unless they know what they're. taking, they're like, "Well, then you're. going to be written up as a you're going. to be court-martialed as a war criminal. for killing all those people.". Cuz you did that on your own. Even though it was a direct order. from the higher ups. So, they would they. use all of those little mechanisms of of. manipulation and and keeping a thumb on. guys in order. >> Right. >> Very much so. And it there's you know, they target. certain personalities within their.

teams, especially in SEAL Team Six. Um. >> What does that mean? >> So, I we talked about this at breakfast. that you know, there was a in the '80s. the people they were recruiting to be. Navy SEALs when there was no war going. on were more of the military bearing, rule following, um traditional leader. type person. >> Once the GWOT started, they were. recruiting you know, the high school. wrestler with an anger issue. Um maybe gotten some trouble with the. law and has no dad.

That was the profile they started to. recruit because they knew that those. those guys were looking for something to. belong to. They were looking for. something with a. with a greater purpose that allowed them. to use their their anger and their their. rage in a legal, quote unquote, legal. productive way. >> And that's They started recruiting. emotionally stunted guys. >> Yes, very much so. >> Yeah, it really shows, I must say. Um. >> [snorts]. >> Wow. Um. So, Tim Szymanski, Admiral.

commanding SEAL Team Two, is that. >> No, he was Group Two. Um he was the overall boss. um. at that time. >> Who is he exactly? >> He's an acolyte of. uh Dick Marcinko. >> Mm. >> Um you know, I I've never met the man, but [clears throat] his reputation. precedes him. And everything I've been told about him. from the community in which I'm now part. of in this. SEAL corruption exposure group of.

people, um, is that he's the the queen bee. He's. He's the one that runs the show. He's. the one that creates the. um, the brand. While SEALs, and then after they're done. being SEALs, you know, there's there's plenty of. vertical markets that the SEALs are in, um, that make a lot of money. And. just like a multi-level marketing. scheme, money gets kicked up the chain.

Kind of like the mob. Um, and and from what I'm told, um, allegedly, Tim Szymanski is the. leader of that. And. there's enough. >> a civilian at this point? >> Yeah, he's retired. Retired admiral. Um, and I again, I. I only care about Job. But in order for people to care about. Job, other than me, I had to. be exposed to all the other stuff. Because there was nobody front-facing.

their work. It [clears throat] was all. behind the scenes. It was all, um, surreptitiously investigated because. these guys, a lot of these SEALs, don't. want to go against the brand. >> Yeah. >> They don't want to come out and and, you. know, it pisses me off because I'm out. here, Joe small-town cop from Passtown, Pennsylvania, taking the arrows, doing the heavy. lifting. >> Yep. >> And, you know, I I would love them to. come out and. and defend and fight for the community.

that they they love and the country that. they love. Um, but they needed me to be the face. and the voice for the things that they. were investigating. >> [snorts]. >> So, I had opportunity to interview Rob. O'Neill, um, for 6 hours, and. um, that interview, which was on the J Slay. USA podcast, great podcast by the way, you'd love him. Jeremy Sladen, former. AAA baseball player in the Phillies. organization. Um.

That interview, those 6 hours of. interviews, cuz we did a the Bin Laden. raid yep interview and then we talked. about Job, we talked about Extortion 17, we talked about um Marcus Luttrell with. Lone Survivor. And actually Rob admitted that he. believed that Job's death was a cover-up. and that it wasn't suicide. And I give. him credit for saying that because Rob's. while while he has faults and while many. people don't um. believe that he's the one that shot Bin. Laden first, which you know, everybody.

I've talked to. leads me to believe that's true. Um but I wasn't there, so I don't really. know who did what. But to his credit, he isn't afraid. to say things about other things within. his community, which I do appreciate. Um. we may not agree on on the Bin Laden. thing, but I do appreciate him being. honest during those interviews. And. those interviews are what created the. opportunity. for me to expand myself on podcasts and. to get Job's name out more and to get.

those forensics people to reach out to. me. Um you know, Dr. Turvey, you know, he. wrote his he has. a bunch of points that he wrote when he. he uh reviewed the case. You know, Job's. body was moved twice after he was dead. There were three distinct dried blood. flow patterns on his head, which can't. happen. in an instantaneous death. You know, the bullet enters the brain, it's lights out immediately. You can't. move two more times. Um the casing was found under Job's.

butt, his tailbone area. Impossible to have happened in the. position which he was shot. Um. the bullet. wound up in the upper left corner by the. head of the bed. Um if you're standing at the foot of the. bed, upper left corner, where under his bed were Pelican boxes. And the only place that didn't have. Pelican box was the upper left corner. And the blood from Job's head had pulled. under there, and the bullet was found.

in that pool of blood. Um they didn't test that bullet for. anything other than the DNA of the. blood. There was no testing for brain. brains, skin, skull fragments, nothing. Um [clears throat]. Bullet was intact. It was It was, you. know, crushed down, but it was intact. enough to know that it was a 9-mm. um ball ammo that they were issued. Um. But the the one thing that's very.

I don't have an answer to, but it I I. kind of do have an answer to is that. during his autopsy there's photos of his. head. where there is a distinct. semicircle. uh the same diameter as the face of a. suppressor. And, you know, I. in 2002 I was introduced to Pete. Heksath. And he was still Fox at the time. And. asked him for help, help get exposure, introduce me to people. We even talked. about you.

And uh I said anything you can do to. help me. And so he I sent him everything. I had at the time, and. he reviewed it, and he agreed. I have. text messages that I released to the. Washington Post for the article that was. written in June on the front page. where he says that there's no way. anybody would commit suicide in the. position that he was found in, and that it was clearly a suppressor was. used to kill him. Well, Job's gun was. unsuppressed. So, we have a problem. How do we How do we justify. a suicide when there's potential.

evidence of. a different gun being used. to kill him, which means it's a. homicide. On top of the forensics, that. alone is a. is a huge issue for me trying to figure. out. We need somebody to come up with an. answer for that, because that's just not. I'm You can't just let that be. And you. know, nobody heard a gunshot, which. would be why nobody heard a gunshot. Right? Could have been a pillow and a. suppressor, could have been many things. that. um muted that. the sound of that that gun going off.

So, for me, you know, the forensics were what I needed to. validate me that what I had done for the. last, you know, 5-6 years before I got. those those findings were true, that I. wasn't on a. ghost-chasing mission. And uh. it would it gave me. the peace of mind to know that I didn't. have to go out any more and convince. people. that Joe was murdered. I know Joe was murdered. And I know he was murdered by. uh I can't say. I'm 99% sure he was.

killed by people that had access to that. building. Um. do I know if it was SEALs? No. But, I do. know that Jeff Piller, the Command. Master Chief, who's the top enlisted. guy, >> Yep. >> who found him and then ordered his body. washed and had control over the crime. scene, um. actually on Clayton Morris's show on. Redacted, I named. uh Jeff Piller as. the one who orchestrated the cover-up of. Joe's death.

And 10 days later, he was found dead of. a heart attack. Piller was. >> Mhm. At what age? >> 60. two, maybe, something like that. By all accounts, great shape. Um. and again, I'm not insinuating anything. happened to him. It's just very odd. timing that I named him publicly. on a rather large platform that. he's found dead 10 days later. >> So, it's 3:00 in the afternoon, you've. had your coffee, but you're still. staring blankly at your screen,

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I mean, I have suspects um. on who I think were involved. I I know. Jeff Peeler knows. he knew exactly what happened to Joe. And you know, he's a cleanup guy. You. know, he's. he's top of the list guy. He's. interfaces with the the command level. guys every day. And take protect the integrity of the. brand. >> So, sketch it out for us without Don't. name any names if you don't care to. since you can't prove it, but um what do. you believe happened? Like the people.

who did kill him, who were Were they. command level people? Were they Who Who. do you believe they were? >> So, I believe the guy that the SEAL Team. 6 guy that stole the money. cuz Joe confronted him 2 days before he. died and told him that money had to be. returned. Um. I believe he was involved. I believe there were a couple guys that. um. >> [clears throat]. >> were involved in that briefing of the. child, uh the teen. I think there was guys that hated Job.

because. two of their buddies died. Um I think there was a the active mem-. part the active people in the murder was. small number of people. The conspiracy to cover it up was a. large group of people. And you know. honestly, I believe. How do I say [clears throat] this. without getting myself sued or killed? Um I believe that. another entity.

is the one that actually. uh. executed Job. A non-military. government entity. >> Hm. >> Um because of the poppy field. heroin thing. Yep. Would be if I had. >> Another government agency that works. with the SEAL Team. >> SEALs closely. Yes. Um. And I believe the SEAL Team Six guys.

>> An entity that a lot of SEALs go to work. for when they leave the Navy. >> yes. >> Yeah. >> And. I don't have I you know again, they. washed. >> about the Department of Transportation. >> Yeah, FAA. >> FAA. So good. >> Um the forgotten about agency. Um that's. what we used to call it when I was an. air marshal. Which was nice cuz nobody paid attention. to you. And then they created Homeland. Security and ruined everything. But I. digress. I I think there's there is. definitely. s-. a thread to pull there that I don't want.

to pull. I really only want Job's case to be. changed from suicide to something not. suicide. Cuz if you think about when Job died, he. had a million-dollar life insurance. policy that he had gotten on his own. Um the military gives they have a. $400,000 death benefit if you die in. combat that automatically gets paid to. the family. But he had a million-dollar. life insurance policy plus his 6 months. from being getting his pension. plus any uh you know, promotions he. would have gotten to admiral and.

whatever that pay would have been cuz. that's what his pension would have been. based off of. So, we're looking at, you know, $3. million. minimum and in benefits that his wife. and daughter didn't get. And of course, because. >> Cuz none of that is triggered. by suicide. >> Correct. You get none of those things. with when you commit suicide. >> Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's a meaningful designation, [clears throat] like practically. speaking. >> And and there's nothing they can do. about the life insurance policy cuz it's. already expired, but the government.

should stroke a check for all of that to. make her whole and then do a computer. keystroke change. and go from suicide to undetermined. >> [snorts]. >> I know I'm never going to get homicide. I know that. >> Well, let's let's let's test your. theory. So, you've um described a number. of crimes already. You described the. murder of a detainee. beaten to death, tortured to death. You've described the rape of a local. teenage girl. And you've described the theft of US.

government funds meant for tribal. chiefs. Were any of those investigated and. resulted in court-martials? >> Zero. >> Okay. >> And nobody was nobody was even. investigated for destroying evidence and. tampering with evidence. Like there was. there was absolutely zero accountability. for anything that happened. on that deployment. >> But you're pretty confident that that. those other three crimes you described, the rape, the killing of the detainee, and the theft of those funds, those. happened. >> 100%.

>> And no one was ever held accountable in. any way? >> Nobody. >> Okay. >> ones that that killed the detainee did. get court-martialed and were sentenced. to jail. um ended up having all their charges. dropped later on. >> Why? >> And all got promoted. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You fail forward in the. Navy SEALs. >> Wait. They were court-martialed, convicted. >> and then overturned. >> And then they got promoted? >> Oh, yes, they did. >> Is that normal? >> Uh not in my world, it's not. But.

apparently in that world it is. You. know, the Navy is is renowned when you. when there's a screw-up. so you look at. Lone Survivor, right? Marcus Luttrell. It's very well known now that that is. not how. things actually went. That mission was. not like the book in the movie. That book was written for him, and he. was given new orders when he got back. that you were now going to go out and. tell this story. And he said that on his own podcast. Well, you probably have heard that. diesel prices have gotten so high that. G7 nations had to release fuel from. strategic reserves to get costs under.

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buy gold, cuz we actually believe in. gold, and we use this service ourselves. Protect your savings and fortify your. future. Explore our collection of. patreonmetals.com/tucker. patreonmetals.com/tucker. Can you just summarize quickly what the. real story was? >> Well, the real story is there was, you. know, four guys that had no business. doing the mission they were. being asked to do. They were sub guys. like under what under underwater diving. guys, UDT guys. And they they weren't. Delta Forces the land guys, right?

They're the ones doing reky type stuff. and and going out and hitting high value. targets in mountains and things of that. nature. And the SEALs from and we'll. talk about John Chapman and Robert's. Ridge here as well if we have time. Um. from 2002 when that happened with John. Chapman all the way until the end of the. war, the SEALs were taking. over. the special operations mission tempo. They were doing things that they were. not um. equipped to do training-wise. That's.

just not what their their job was. But. then, you know, they're doing a lot of. urban assaults and. not necessarily hitting high value. target houses like you would think they. would should be doing. Just doing basic. Marine Corps infantry grunt work they. were doing because they wanted to have. um. I don't want to say that they they. wanted to. thrill to kill, but you know, there. there is. you don't go into the SEALs and not. having a desire to.

put a feather in your cap. And everybody. wants to get that first kill and. once you realize you can get that first. kill and there's no. judge or jury or or anybody oversight, you know, anything could be a weapon. I. thought he was picking up a water jug. I. thought it was an IED. I killed him. Oh, it was a water jug. You know, things of that nature were. happening all the time and guys were. able to get away with things that. typically would be considered um. a war crime. because of the environment which.

dictated, you know, there was a lot of. um non-traditional weapons. being deployed during this time. You know, it gave a lot of latitude and a lot of. um freedom of action to. the the. everyday SEAL and then the cover was. created by the command. And you know, Marcus's team. um. was ill-equipped for the job that they. were going to do and it's not their. fault. They were sent out on that job. They're not the ones that picked the.

mission, but. you know, what happened there was a. complete breakdown of. um. they didn't know what they were doing up. there. And that's you know, that's not. their fault. They were sent out to do. something that. they weren't trained to do. And you know, just recently there was a. couple guys. um Chambers and Ingram who were trying. to board a ship in off the coast of. Somalia. and they drowned. And uh turns out that they didn't have.

the proper pre-deployment training. >> [clears throat]. >> They didn't do the buoyancy testing on. their gear and they had way too much. gear on and they sank. Um. but that was covered up by the by the. government. >> And this just happened? >> Yeah, within last year or two, I think. it was. Um. the patterns, you know, as a SIGINT. analyst my my job was to decode things. and.

patterns are very important and when you. when you sit back and look at all the. patterns that have been going on since. 2002 until the end of the war and how. the same. key people granted the SEAL teams are. small numbers-wise comparatively. speaking to the overall military, but. how people who are involved in complete. and utter failure missions. fail forward. You know, if you screw up, you get medals. And then you get promoted because why. would anybody give a medal or promote.

somebody who's a screw up? Of course. Um. >> Well, they're the face of the entire. empire actually at this point. >> Yes. Yeah, yeah. >> Right. So, it's not the there there's no. real benefit to the US government or the. people benefiting from these wars to. holding anyone in the SEAL Teams. accountable because the again, they're. the brand. Not just of the Navy, but of. like the entire United States government. abroad. >> and that and that was a. an intentional. power grab.

Hm. And once they got it, they didn't. really [ __ ]. And John Chapman with Robert O'Neill, so. we'll talk about that because it it'll. give a lot of perspective as to how. >> [clears throat]. >> the next 18 years would go. >> So, I want to get to that, but before we. do, I want to go back to something you. said. a while ago. You said that there are all. kinds of business verticals that. the SEAL Teams benefit from. What does. that mean? >> Some are legal, some are illegal. Um.

I have sources who have told me that a. lot of drugs the they sought money was. to buy drugs and they were getting. shipped back um in military cargo. >> To the United States? >> United States. And then sold on the open. market. at, you know, a 350% profit, right? Cuz. they didn't spend any of their own. money. They used the taxpayer dollar. from that AFSOC money and bought drugs. and had it shipped back and then. had that those drugs were sold to, you. know, MS-13 and other. gangs to distribute on the street. >> believe that happened? >> 100%.

>> Everyone I mean that I it's hard to. think of a more appalling crime than. that. A greater. betrayal of our country than our own. military importing drugs. into our nation to kill our kids. I. mean, I can't think of anything worse. than that. I really. >> Greed and power. And I'll give you. another. >> But you really believe that happened? >> 100%. 100%. Um. >> Why do you think that? >> Because that's the you know, at the. >> Have you spoken to people who saw it? >> Yes. I I've spoken to people who who.

didn't participate, but. were in the circles of knowledge. And were. >> present when that was happening? >> Present in the. tr- shipping to the states, yes. >> Gee whiz. >> So there's a guy named Staff Sergeant. Melgar, was a special forces guy, who. was. killed by two SEAL Team Six guys and two. Marine Raiders in Mali. in 2018. And.

he had caught the SEAL Team Six guy. stealing ASOP money and buying drugs and. diamonds. in Mali and. they killed him. And they said it was they were. roughhousing and MMA, but they actually. they broke his hyoid bone and then they. did a trache on him after he died. to try to make it look like they were. trying to save his life. But they were just trying to cover up. the the fact they broke his. that bone in his neck. Um.

So it's not Job isn't new. >> Did they get away with it? >> Uh they. did and they didn't. Um. They went to jail, but then their. sentences were reduced. Um. and they got promoted, too. Oddly enough. >> When they get out of jail? >> While they were in jail, one got. promoted. >> Okay, well that's. I've never heard this, but you're. describing uh an organization that's.

completely out of control. >> Very much so. >> Cuz they killed an American? >> Uh yeah, another soldier. Yes. Just so. Job was 2012, that was 2018. And and I. don't know how many other. instances I have on. very, very good authority from many. sources that that called strap hangers. So the SEALs would look at anybody that. was attached to them that would be going. out on missions with them, whether it's. a CCT, a combat controller from from the Air.

Force or PJ or a TAC P or yeah, special. forces guys, if if somebody was. was going to upset the brand. of the Navy SEALs, they were going to. rat them out for doing whatever it is. they were doing illegally, they would. kill them I don't know. That that was commonplace. That there was a lot of guys who died, who were not killed by enemy fire, were. killed by their own. men. And. that. because it's war and because there is no.

um forensics. taken on bullets and trajectories and. things of that nature, nobody looks into. it. It's just, yes, he got killed by a. rifle round and he's dead. And he was a. hero because he was at war. When in. reality. very many times. um. it was at the hands of their own men. And that is the part that haunts me at. night is knowing that there is a group. of people who are supposed to be. um.

>> [snorts]. >> the good guys, right? We're the good guys. We're supposed to. be the good guys. We set the standard. We don't stoop to the level of. barbarianism like our enemy does. We're. supposed to keep a standard. And the fact that that's not what's. happening is very, very disheartening to. me as a as a veteran. You know, I was in. the army for years and cop for 30 years. and I bleed red, white, and blue and I'm. as conservative as the as the day is. long and it it haunts me to think that. that's what is. >> shock you, though? I mean, you spent 20.

years. prosecuting a totally pointless war. Like there was no one in charge from the. president on down could ever articulate. what the point of the Afghan occupation. was. Like no one could ever explain the. strategy or tactics, but like what's the. point? And so you take guys, normal decent. Americans, and you put them in a world. where. killing is. kind of what you do and there's no. oversight at all. and there's no purpose or meaning or. kind of redemptive mission.

Of course, people are going to become. evil, right? >> You Yeah, and it's I guess it it. >> corrupt us. >> And you don't want to look behind that. curtain, right? Cuz it's uncomfortable. And as an American, if I didn't have. access to the information I had, I would. just be as as dumb and and blind as as. else. Like that's not paying attention. at any depth of level. >> design cuz the media on a bipartisan. basis, left-wing NBC, right-wing Fox. News, both of them promote the military. as the best thing this country has, the.

only really noble institution in the. nation is our military. The only thing. you can't criticize You can criticize. everybody else. You can't criticize the military. >> And that's Yes. And then it's I mean. >> Why is that? You would think like. used to say when I was at Fox they would. say the. left hates the military. Well, I don't notice that. I notice the left. promoting the military, actually. Have you noticed that? >> Yeah, I mean it's. >> [laughter]. >> I don't think there is a left and right. anymore. >> Well, obviously. Yeah.

>> it's all one one big thing and and they. just, you know, for theater pick their. their side for the topic of the day. Um. I. I guess because I spent 34 years of my. life serving and protecting in some. capacity. and doing it with honor and and and, you. know, there isn't anybody that can. question. my career and what I've done. And I just wish that, you know, that's. the way it.

it would be with everybody. But then, you know, I'm I'm I'm an older guy. I'm. your age and I was in the Persian Gulf. War and, you know, there wasn't many. wars going on growing up. in the '70s and '80s after Vietnam. So, there wasn't. I didn't have an exposure. The military. was you went and served so that, you. know, whether it was to get college. money or to learn a trade or whatever. You didn't weren't you weren't going to. fight a 20-year war. And I think. you have to sort of really.

widen your your. focus to see the greater picture of what. happened since 2002 in order to um truly. understand. the magnitude of. the exposure that these guys were placed. under. And, you know, I have I I have nothing. but the utmost respect for all the good. and honorable men who serve our country. Um there's a small handful that are. ruining it for everybody. And while I take no no pride in exposing.

this stuff, I also know that. the best medicine is probably sunlight. in this case. >> What's also they don't own it. They. don't own the US military. I mean, I. respect people's service. I certainly. respect their bravery. Even the bad guys. are brave. They're all brave with huge. balls. But like it's not their country. It's. not their military. They're doing this. on our behalf with our money. >> It's So who do you think you are? >> Yeah. [ __ ] You can't You can't act. like that. under our.

You know what I'm saying? I'm saying I. feel this way about our political class, too. It's like you This doesn't belong. to you, actually. You don't get to wreck. it. >> And. we've and. So we've allowed ourselves to to to. distance ourselves from the very fabric. of what makes us ourselves. America is. unique to more than any other country. ever created. And the things that made. us unique, we now just complacently. accept the opposite of.

The the greatness, the the first to do. things, the the place where people come. from other countries to to find the. American dream. We just sort of accept all that is just. going to be. And then we don't care to. know what's going on in Afghanistan and. Iraq for 20 years. We care to not want. to know what's going on in our. government since, you know, I would say since. 19 early 1900s. the how our government has become what.

it is today. And you follow those. patterns and you see how it got here. And I I do that and. it scares the [ __ ] out of me. And. you know, it makes. going off the grid make way more sense. Like sometimes I think the Amish had it. all figured out and we've just been. duped into thinking something else. >> They don't have a lot of autism problems. in the community. >> That's true. Um. Well, of course I couldn't agree with. you more. Uh.

So, we know that there were you believe you. know, based on years of reporting, that. there really are, it's not just an urban. legend, criminal cartels at work within the US. military. >> Yes, [snorts] and then you know, they end up going work for NGOs, which. are just a different kind of cartel, right? The Blackwaters, the. you know, there's there's plenty of NGOs. that are doing contract work with. ex-special operations guys that are. doing things that are not,

you know, I don't know if they're illegal, but. they certainly aren't moral. Um. it's just there's always a pathway for. them. to take what they did. in their time in in the service and. monetize it outside, whether it's. starting training companies, whether. it's. um coming, you know, starting a firearms. company, whether it's MMA gyms, um which were the big That was the first.

vertical was created was the the rise of. MMA. within the special operations community. and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu specifically. Um. you know, there's there's always ways, there's always money. to prop people up, you know, whether. it's buying getting somebody who screws. up while they're in the military, but they stay loyal to the brand, and then they get out, and they get a book deal.

And they write a book on leadership or. whatever, and all of a sudden it's a New York. Times bestseller. Not cuz the book's good, cuz there's money behind it. Bulk purchases of books. to spike the. the sales, like all that happens, and. that's just how all these guys end up. staying quiet for decades, because that. gravy train. through the SEAL Foundation, through. other organizations.

That is how they stay. um. part of the brotherhood, long live the. brotherhood, but also. financially okay. You know, nobody wants to. nobody wants to take that leap and and. go against the grain and then risk all. of that. And you have to ask yourself very much. like what would cause someone to kill. their commander? Now, what would cause. somebody to keep quiet about war crimes. for 30, 40, 50, 60 years? Like, what. would keep you quiet? I know I I. couldn't be quiet.

Like, I can't I that I I my soul would. get eaten to death. Like. money. power. community. all those things keep these guys. you know, towing the line. And it's not all of them. I have so many. SEALs that are supporting me and. quietly telling me to. blow it all up. Because it's the only way it's going to. get fixed.

>> Have you had any luck getting the. attention of elected officials? The ones who appropriate the money for. all of this? >> Um I've had uh. Yes, but not of any consequence. Um I. had. um. my representative at the in the House of. Representatives um out of Missouri. write a letter requesting that um they. take a look at the case. Got the go pound sand letter back. And Senator McCormick. out of Pennsylvania wrote his office.

wrote a letter. Got the same response. I have no faith in the government doing. their job. Um yep. Pete Hegseth, the last thing he texted. me in April '23 before he ghosted me was. if they're never in a position to help, I will. >> Well, he's in that Did he wind up in a. position to help? >> He kind of did. But yeah, Secretary of. Defense. He controls everything within our. military industrial complex and. you You I've there has been plenty of.

conversations. with people. who are in his sphere, who have on my. behalf spoken. and given off ramps. for this Job's case. You know, this was up until last week, there were negotiations happening. And I told him, "Tucker's coming and. you know, we need to have if there's. going to be a a resolution to this. in a quiet way, then let's get it done.

Cuz if not, I'm going on Tucker and. that's just happening. So, didn't get done. So, here we are. And uh. again, it's just a matter of getting his. manner of death changed. from suicide to something else. So, that. it releases. the funds that his family deserves. >> Have Have you spoken to any of his team. people who served under him? >> From that deployment, only a couple. >> All of them mostly won't talk to me.

Um luckily, I have all their statements. and you know, they're all scripted and. everybody said basically the same thing. in every one of those statements. Um even words like aloof. That he was aloof. Now, I I have. I can count on one finger the number of. times that I've used aloof in a. sentence. And I certainly don't think Navy SEALs. collectively use the word aloof. when describing another person who might. be. you know, fuller. Um.

Whatever. It's just the word that. doesn't get used. >> Yeah. So, describing a commanding. officer as aloof is not evidence that he. killed himself. >> No. And and you know, that I get I I. have had, you know, through. uh. hateful emails and. threats and telling me that, you know, the man that I thought I knew was not. the man that killed himself. He was. changed. He did this and. and he was you know, you don't know what. it was like. He was depressed. He was. withdrawn. Okay, I stipulate to that.

And. the evidence shows he was murdered. So anything you tell me about these. contextual Joe Price sadness thing has. no bearing because actual evidence shows. he was murdered. And there is absolutely zero, not a. single stitch of evidence that Joe. committed suicide. Not actual evidence. >> Well, given the context you've laid out, I don't think it sounds crazy that he. was killed. >> I appreciate that because I've been. called that a lot. Um.

unfortunately. >> John Chapman. >> Yes. >> You made reference to his story, his. case. What is it? What happened? >> So early in the war, the first major. offensive in Afghanistan was. um. called Operation Anaconda. Which uh. >> I remember that. >> Yeah. So that there were this was a. piece of the Operation Anaconda. And there was a mountain called Takur. Ghar and um. Tim Szymanski was the operations officer. who planned that mission.

You'll see the connected body there. And uh. he got his team. SEAL Team 16. to take this mission where they were. going to go and put a uh. basically a reky team, a a sniper team. reconnaissance um. on this mountain. But they knew Delta Force Pete Labor who. has since turned into a. complete fraud, but um he was the. he was the ground force commander.

of the whole area. Um. he knew there there were enemy on that. mountain. They'd they'd seen their. movement. They'd they'd been keeping an. eye on them. They decided to. um do the mission anyways and land on. top of the mountain. The original plan. they should have landed lower and then. made their way up by foot. In order to. get the element of surprise, they chose. not to do that. They decided to land. right on top of the. the mountain due to time constraints I'm. told. And uh.

they get hit by an RPG and. uh one of the SEALs on that team was a a. six-man team plus John Chapman who was. the Air Force combat controller. Um Neil Roberts his name was that fell. out the back of the helicopter. And. the helicopter was going to crash so the. pilot Alan Mack who's been on a a lot of. podcasts. um. navigated the the the. the helicopter to a safe area crash. landed. They got picked up went back to base got.

another helicopter. And they were supposed to land down. lower again and they decided not to do. that and land exactly in the same spot. that they just got shot down in. in order to go rescue. Neil Roberts. And. >> Did they believe he was alive? >> The there were there's always an the. assumption you will go with is that he. he's alive. >> Yes. >> Um. turns out he he wasn't. Um they actually. he fought valiantly. Um I've seen.

the highest the the footage of it and. they they nearly decapitated him. Um. and took all his gear and the savages. Anyways, um they land and. um. they're under heavy fire. Multiple angles. John. was the second one off the helicopter. Um but Labinski who was the team leader. was the first one off and fell. It's. kind of cuz it was thigh deep snow.

So you know that first step to doozy if. you don't know what's underneath you. And uh. so he took a header off the back of the. helicopter and then John his job as a. CCT is to establish communications with. the assets overhead. and coordinate whatever it is they need. to coordinate. So he. uh started you know you got to get. higher ground to have your radios work. effectively so he went up the hill first. um through the snow towards gunfire and.

uh. it's called bunker one and bunker two in. in in the Medal of Honor. packet. Um. He assaulted bunker one by himself, [clears throat] killed two bad guys. Britt Slabinski followed him up, entered. bunker one with him, killed the donkey apparently that was in. there. And then they started addressing bunker. two which was. um a little bit away from that, which. had a PKM machine gun which is a heavy. duty 7.62 uh machine gun. And.

John. gets hit and falls. right outside bunker one. And. so now it's Britt Slabinski. um. Neil Roberts they had actually after. they. uh captured him, the bad guys, they. brought him up to this rock outcropping. right by bunker one and then. and beheaded him basically. Um. He was laying there. And then two other SEALs that had made.

their way up were fighting this these. multiple positions. They determined that it was you know. untenable and they slid down the side of. the mountain. leaving Neil and John. um. on the mountain. So. >> Neil had been killed. >> Yes. >> But nobody. >> John had been shot. >> Yes. They [snorts] they According and. again, I'm the family me nobody is. questioning. the decision for self-preservation and. and come up with a better plan.

>> Right. >> Um. the problem was is what happened after. for the next 24 years, not necessarily. what happened. on the mountain that day. Fog of war is. real, things happen. Um. no one's really criticizing Britt. Slabinski or SEAL Team Six for. the mission execution. just for how they handled it afterwards. Um and we'll really touch on that. But. so John end up waking up. or coming to.

and proceeds to fight by himself. um as the QRF which is Army Rangers were. coming in. to rescue everybody and were drawing. fire away from the the helicopter that. was bringing the Rangers in. And ultimately saved 18 of the 23 with. his actions and he was killed. Um. he actually earned two Medal of Honors. In reality, he was only given one cuz. the second half of the the part of the. story they ended up classifying.

The part where he comes to and fights by. himself cuz the Navy didn't want that. out there. So, immediately afterwards. um. I mean, he's. put on SEAL Team Six wall of fame, which. no one he's the only non-SEAL that's up. there. Um he gets put in for an Air. Force Cross, um which [clears throat] is the. right below the Medal of Honor, it's the. highest medal you can get in the Air. Force. Um. but Slabinski. uh Hal Sattelberg and Randy Lowry, who.

were guys on SEAL Team Six, all wrote. statements of facts for that medal. about what John did um up until the. point where they left the mountain. The. second half part they didn't witness. That was witnessed overhead by the ISR. and the AC-130 feed. Um. so John gets his Air Force Cross. And. and for the first few years, everything. is John's a hero. John's a hero. John's. a hero. Until uh about 2015 when.

the Air Force or might have been 16, the. Air Force decides they want to look at. all. um valorous medals that have been given. out because there's very few Air Force. Medal of Honors. So, the Secretary of Air Force says, "Let's take a look and see. if anybody qualifies for a Medal of. Honor potential.". John's name comes up and they review it. and definitely. deserves the Medal of Honor. So, a. packet was created to and and it. researched tens of thousands of hours of. imagery and analysis, video, pixel.

tracking, uh. all kinds of stuff that went into this. Medal of Honor. It's not some "Yay, let's just upgrade it." There's you have. to be able to prove A that everything. that happened is factual and B that it's. worthy of the highest medal in our. military. Um. So, they went through this process. The Navy decides SEAL Team 6. um. decides that they're going to try to. block it. Because their guy, Britt Slabinski, they. put him in for the Medal of Honor three.

times and it was denied. So, John's was getting traction. So, they created this narrative called. the Red Beard theory, which is some. Chechen or Uzbeki fighter who was. actually. on the ISR feed John doing what he was. doing they're saying is this Red Beard. guy that was actually red on red. fighting, bad guys fighting bad guys in. daylight. Um who live on that mountain together. for weeks and months at a time. And know where every fighting position. is on that that ridgeline.

But that's their theory is that this. John didn't come to, John died in the. first three three to four minutes after. taking bunker one. When he fell, he was. dead. From PKM fires their their version and. that what happened afterwards was this. bad guy shooting at his other bad guy. buddies. Um that got debunked. The video evidence the. they're able to track everybody on the. mountain. and say who is who and where and where. they were.

Um good thing is John didn't leave that. area. Like where where he went down, he. was fighting in basically in a phone. booth. in that spot and that's where he. ultimately died as well, few feet away. from where he initially went down. Um. but the Navy. kept pressing and pressing and pressing. to block John's Medal of Honor until a. deal was struck with the Air Force. Secretary and the Navy Secretary that. they would attach put Slabinski's Medal. of Honor to John Chapman's Medal of. Honor and they would both get the Medal. of Honor.

So, in 2018. um they both got their medals, except. Britt got his first. So, the dead guy didn't get his first. The alive guy got his first because that. was one of the agreements that the Navy. had requested that cuz it looks like. you're you know, first place, right? That you're the one getting your medal. first means you did the most. And you know, on a surface level you think about it. and they probably don't want the. narrative of we left a man behind cuz. that's counter to what their narrative.

is every time. We never leave a man. behind. Um. and I and for a long time up until the. last probably three or four weeks, I just assumed that was the reasoning. Like why would you go to this length to. stop. uh merit being given to somebody. who clearly. deserved it. >> Yes. >> Why would you try to, you know, run his. name through the mud. all these years later? Like what's the. what's the the motivating factor? So.

um. John gets his Medal of Honor and. everything's fine. Um the family's come. to terms with the fact that they're. never going to get the full. um is John's never going to get his full. just due, but there's enough. And as. long as nobody's, you know, rubbing their face in it or. trying to besmirch him in any way, they were fine. And then the National. Medal of Honor Museum. opened. Uh there was a grand opening. And leading up to that, >> [snorts]. >> members of the board had called the. Chapman family and said they wanted to.

honor John and have him prominent. display in the museum. And so for they were getting artifacts. together to put in this big display in. the museum. And shortly, couple months before the. grand opening, Lori Chapman Longworth, who is John's. sister, finds out that. there was a change in plans. Nobody. notified them. that John was not getting a prominent. display, but Slabinski was. So, of course, that turned into a major.

event within the Chapman family. Reopened the wound, pissed them off. Um. museum just kept pushing them away and. deflecting and not really addressing the. situation. And uh I went with her to the grand. opening down in Arlington, Texas in. March of 25. And uh uh. I think it was 25. Everything blends. together. But anyways, recently within. the last year or so, and uh.

when you walk into the museum, it's you. know, it's it's very nice museum, but. John has a plaque. I know. the size of that. screen. hanging on the wall. And a timeline of Medal of Honor. winners. And Britt Slabinski has a room. half the size of this, an area of all. artifacts about how awesome Britt. Slabinski is. The guy who's alive because of the. actions of John Chapman.

is being celebrated as the hero in that. story because the dead guy can't talk. So, that pissed me off. That pissed the. family off. And it's it it put what was the bed. and pulled it pulled the covers off and. exposed everything again. So, over the years, I had known that. there's this guy named Mitch Hall, who. was a SEAL Team Six guy, um. who wants to be famous in Hollywood. That he was tasked by Tim Szymanski to. create a documentary based off of the.

Red Beard theory. on what happened on that mountain. And for years, it was just in the. the talking about phase. There was no. real like public movement with the. documentary. until recently. And for a long time, Mitch has been trying to get Lori uh a. guy named Rob Harrison, who was the. second guy on the AC-130 overhead, eyewitnessed everything that was going. on through the television screens they. were watching on. Um and me to come on and be interviewed. for this fake documentary.

We respectfully declined. He can't. handle that, so he. has to badger and and do all this stuff. to trying to get us to, you know, under. the guise of it, we're just trying to. find the truth. And the the documentary is called The. Ground Truth. We call it The Ground. Spoof. Um. but that's that's the working premises. They're regurgitating the debunked. theory that was debunked during the. Medal of Honor process. you know, 8 years ago. They're trying to. bring it and turn it into a documentary.

So. Um recently. Mitch and a guy named Brian Bloom who. was a. video game voice guy and a. like a bit actor in a soap opera. It's. his business partner in this documentary. went on Andy Stump's podcast Cleared Hot. which is you know, Andy was a Navy SEAL. SEAL Team Six guy. And Mitch spent. better part of 10 hours over the course. of three different episodes they at.

least released it as. literally when asked by Andy. Andy Stump whether John Chapman deserved. the Medal of Honor, he said no. And running John's name through the mud, running Lori's name through the mud, John's family through the mud. Um. and produce no evidence. Very similar to. Joe's case where there's no evidence to. show what they're saying. but they want you to believe that's what. happened. And.

that video of them coming out and and. what they're going to try to paint. is in direct conflict with what the. truth was that happened that day. And Lori and a guy named uh Dan. Schilling who was a Air Force combat. controller wrote a best-selling book. called Alone at Dawn. which is the true accounts of what. happened to John Chapman. And she autographed this book for you. >> Thank you. >> And then also wrote a um a memoir about. John that she also.

>> Thanks a lot. >> wanted to give you. Um. so. because they're bullies and because they. picked on. a dead man and his family. I decided to start digging. uh about 3 weeks ago. And. luckily through through the course of my. relationships that I built over the last. 7 years, I was able to obtain all the. necessary evidence that I need to review. still. Um. all the ISR feed uncut, um AC-130.

feeds, um. everything that the the Air Force used. to. to prove what John did is what John did. Um I was looking at the autopsy the. other day. And you know, I I'm I'm pretty well. versed in understand what the enemy uses. as their primary weapons, which is you. know, AK-47s, AK-74s, PKM machine guns. >> Yep. >> Not a lot of uh. 9 mm or .38 specials.

you know, during combat for Al-Qaeda. Just not. something that they. >> They're not carrying the .38. >> No, they're not. No wheel guns. Um. And I noticed that, you know, John had. nine bullet wounds. Um. the great thing about forensics, we. talked about Job, is that. you know, it's science. It's provable. that certain things have to happen for. certain things to happen. So, in order for John to have been dead. in the first 4 minutes,

the wounds that were fatal would have. had to have happened first. Because that's what. the story is that the Navy SEALs are. trying to paint. The reality is is that. he had nine wounds. Seven of them were non-lethal. And forensically show that for at least. an hour his body was still pumping. blood. Because the wounds presented in a way. that showed that there was blood. pressure at the time for extended period. of time after the wounds were were.

sustained, which means he wasn't dead. Means he was alive for at least an hour, which then correlates with the him. getting up and fighting again. And then receiving the fatal wounds. um from the PKM machine gun, which blew. up his aorta. Like it was. definite lethal wounds. Like you don't. get shot. um. in the aorta 4 minutes in and then. get up and fight again. Um. And then I was looking at the bullets. that were recovered from him. There's a.

lot of shrapnel. They dropped bombs all. around him. They AC-130 did. Um. And two of the bullets that were. recovered were. completely different in size, shape, and. alloy than the. copper. based um. 7.62 rounds that were. recovered from his body. And they were small caliber. And there's. you know, the only people carrying small calibers. on that mountain were the were the good.

guys. There's no reference anywhere in any. report of any handguns recovered. from the bad guys that were killed on. that mountain. So, there's a couple bullets that are in. John that I have I have some questions. about. How did they get there? >> [clears throat]. >> How did a small handgun caliber round. wind up in John Chapman's body? And. they don't have an answer for that. But I will find an answer to that.

What's your thought? My thought is I. I will show grace. and say that. there was probably a lot of things. happening all at once. Yep. And people are moving all over the. place. Gunfire's coming. There's no like. stationary position anybody was in for. any length of time in those first 4. minutes. Cuz the SEALs, once they exfilled off. the side of the mountain, never went. back into the fight. They. They had guys that were wounded. and they were exfilled. They never. re-engaged the enemy.

So, they had their their vantage point. is only 4 minutes. 4 4 and 1/2, maybe. Um. but during that 4 and 1/2 minutes, John was shot by his own guys, is what I. believe. And I'm going to say not. intentionally. Because I don't I don't believe because. of where the wounds were, they were in. his legs, the back of his legs. That they they have to have been. unintentional. Who's firing a handgun in. a firefight?

>> Well, they're in a bunker. So, [snorts] I don't know if, you know, they're in the middle of a you know, 20. in, 22 in of snow, and, you know, automatic weapons are going to. malfunction. And maybe he had to transition. to to a sidearm. And you know, they. carried 226s, SIG 226s, but I have uh. I've spoken to several people who were. involved in the pre-deployment workup. where conversations were had uh between. uh trainers and.

um. >> [clears throat]. >> Britt Slabinski and John Chapman cuz. Britt Slabinski told John Chapman not to. carry handgun because of the weight of. the things he was going to have to. carry, the radios and all that stuff, and not to carry handgun. John didn't think that was tactically. sound, so he went and talked to the. trainers and said, you know, what are. your thoughts? Should I should not. and uh. they're like, yes, you definitely should. have you always should have a handgun. with you just in case something. malfunctions. You have another. opportunity to to put.

um lead down range and. then Slabinski entered the conversation. and was arguing as to why handguns. aren't needed. And when he was told about the the. Vietnam era SEALs carrying wheel guns. back then, I think it was the. um. Model 66. Taurus, I think is what they were. carrying back then. >> And 357. >> And 38. They carried both. Um.

he was enamored by that. The idea of doing what the. the old school SEALs did. And, you know, tactically speaking, a wheel gun is. going to work pretty much in any. environment. Yeah, as long as you can. pull the trigger, it's going to go bang. if there's a bullet in there. And uh. so it makes sense that maybe he carried. it. I don't have any direct knowledge. that he did carry uh a. a 38 or 357, but I I do know that he was. carrying a SIG 226 at least. Um cuz.

that's what they were issued. And John. was carrying a Sig 226. Um, John Chapman is an American hero. Uh, Ron Howard is putting out a movie in. December of '27 called Alone at Dawn, um, featuring uh, Adam Driver as John. Chapman. And Hathaway's playing some amalgamation. of. multiple people that were part of the. Medal of Honor review process for the. Air Force. Um, And then you have to ask yourself, why.

would a group of people. be so hell-bent 24 years later to. uh, destroy the Chapman family and the. legacy of John Chapman? What What What. could have happened so egregious that. would cause that much ire and anger for. someone to to want to do that again over. and over? I mean, this is over the. course of 24 years, five, six times that. this is this one's been reopened. And initially I thought it's because. they left a man behind. And they're just.

too egotistical, narcissistic, and they. they can't allow for that to be their. their identifying action from that. mission. But now that I found these bullets in. John Chapman, maybe I think that's what they're. covering up. I don't know. I'm going to find out. though. Why would they shoot him? I don't think it was intentional. I just. think it happened. And I think the fact. that someone cuz I don't As far as I. know, based on everybody I've talked to, nobody's looked at his autopsy.

with any. like. trying to figure anything out. But it's very clear to me. that something doesn't fit. And you. know, that's how I started with Joe. Something didn't look right. Something. feel right. My gut says this. Something doesn't look right with that. autopsy. There's no There's no justification as. to how those. handgun rounds ended up in John's body. Because he was being shot at by 7.62. machine gun. And the guys that were in the bunker had.

AK-47s. So, where did these these rounds come. from? So, that's the thing I think they're they're. scared about. And that's why it's worth it for them to. ruin their own reputation in order to. protect that information from coming. out. That's what it seems like to me. >> How long are you going to continue on. the trail of corruption. in elite military units? >> I I don't want to do it at all. Um.

you know, I'm going to see Job's case. through. Um and now that I'm I'm directly. involved in in the Chapman. case, I'm going [snorts] to see that one. through. But there is zero. interest for me Oops, sorry about that. Interest for me to go after anyone else. Like I'm not investigating anybody else, never did. I didn't investigate Robert. O'Neill or any of the other famous SEALs. or any other SEAL for that matter that. was involved in any potential crime or. cover-up. Um and I don't want to.

But I don't like bullies. I don't like liars. I don't like people. who hurt other people intentionally. um in order to serve their own best. interests. And as long as Britt Slabinski Oh, I. didn't even mention this. Britt. Slabinski is on the board of the. National Medal of Honor Museum. And he's the president of the National. uh of the Congressional Medal of Honor. Society. >> [snorts]. >> So, a Medal of Honor recipient who is at.

the top of the food chain of of an. organization. meant to protect the integrity of the. Medal of Honor recipients and the Medal. of Honor itself is publicly saying. that the guy that saved his life. on that mountain that day who also. received the Medal of Honor did not earn. it. Publicly. How does somebody remain on the board? Charlotte Jones, Jerry Jones' daughter. is the. president or CEO of the of the museum. down in Arlington. She should demand that Britt Slabinski.

step down from any role within that that. organization. The Medal of Honor Society should have. him step down and stripped of his title. of president of that society. He's a president of a company of a. non-profit called Turbo Vets. There was a recent incident between him. and a guy named Eric Deming who was a. seal. Great guy, we've become very good. friends. It was a vet influencer. type conference and Britt was speaking. about how do we honor our dead was the.

topic of his talk. Eric went. recorded. an exchange with Britt where he stood. stood up and introduced himself. introduced him actually before the. event. He introduced himself to Britt. and said, "Hey, you know, while we're on. the topic of honoring our dead, can you. name off the seven guys that died that. day on the mountain?". Rangers and John Chapman and Neil. Roberts. and he couldn't. And then he lost his mind. Screaming, "Fuck you!" Got in Eric's face and told.

him video. And then Jason Redman who was another. Navy SEAL who was injured in an op. I don't want to say assaulted but Eric's. wife was wearing one of those badge. lanyard badges for as an attendee. and he her name was facing inward so no. he couldn't see who she was so he. grabbed her chest and the the lanyard.

badge and flipped it around and said, "Now I know who you are.". This is another seal. Who was there with Britt Slabinski. So. Britt Slabinski is unstable. I think he has a lot of guilt. And I think he's. unraveling. And if I were. his handler. I would make sure he goes into treatment. and gets the help that he needs. And I would certainly have no.

affiliation with anything to do with the. Medal of Honor. And the fact that you know. no one is calling for that yet. And there's there's a lot of people. Congress, there's a lot of people. involved that are unhappy with what's. happened in the last 3 weeks with this. documentary. with Mitch [clears throat] Hall and. Britt Slabinski's losing his crap with. Eric Deming. They're very unhappy cuz it's bringing a. negative light to the Medal of Honor. itself. Just think about it. Every Medal. of Honor from here on out.

now that this is a big public thing is. going to be it's like Barry Bonds with. steroids. Like there's just going to be. an asterisk and that's unfortunate and. it was avoidable. You know, had they just and and I hate. to take it back to the museum display, but had they just did the right thing. museums are meant for the people who. can't talk anymore. They're meant to. remember those who are no longer here. If they would have just given John his. display. as promised.

I would guarantee we wouldn't be sitting. here. >> Yeah. Well, when everything becomes corrupt, everything becomes corrupt. It's a fact. Man, thank you for that. >> You're welcome. >> Painful topic. I think you handled it. responsibly and I'm grateful that you. did.