Here’s What It’s Really Like to Live as a Christian in the Holy Land

Thank you for doing this. So, you first  uh moved to the Holy Land in 1996, correct? Yeah. As a nun, right? Um, how are  Christians doing in the Holy Land? Well, it's become a very difficult time for them there. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music].

Basically, the Christians are in the same  situation as the Muslims being a Palestinian. So, the problem is so there's two different things.  If you live in Israel, you're a citizen. And so, they are can live there and work, but there's sort  of some petty grievances that people might have. But if you're a Christian in Palestine, which is  where most of the the uh activities of the life. of Christ are, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, the Mount  of Olives, Jericho, uh Jacob's well, that's all.

within Palestine. And so there's many that's  the predominance of the Christian population. there. And they're treated um with the effects of  the occupation, which means you have checkpoints. around you. You can't you're not a Christian who  lives in Bethlehem cannot go to Jerusalem to the. holy supplr without a permit by Israel. And they  don't usually give those permits especially now. A Christian can't. No. Without permission from  Israel. Um that that's interesting because I mean.

those those Christians that you're describing  I mean they are the descendants of of the. Absolutely. They've been there from the beginning.  Yeah. I mean, right, Christ came as a Jew, right, went to the temple. But the people that converted  and have lived there for centuries are, in fact, I. think there's been studies done that uh if you the  on Palestinians living there now, and they are the. Canaanite descendants, they people that have been  there for centuries, not all or the greater part,

not just Palestine included Syria and Lebanon  at a different time under different empires and. things. So, yeah, they're the first Christians,  the Christians at the time of Christ. and they. can it's very difficult to practice their faith.  It's sort of like you're in a gilded cage in the. best that's how I I look at Bethlehem within  Bethlehem. You can live there, but you can't go. and visit your friend who lives near Jacob's  well in Nablas without taking it. In fact, the priest in Bethlehem just told me the other day  his wife is from near Janine, which normally would.

take you about an hour and a half to get between  the two. Her father uh has prostrate cancer. In. order to get treatment, there was only hospitals  there. None nothing in the northwest bank could. deal with it. Either in Jerusalem or in Hebrron,  which is south of Bethlehem. And last year or a. couple years ago, he was able to go to Jerusalem  with a permit to get the treatment. But this year, the Israelis wouldn't let him. So, it took him  over 5 hours to get down to Hebron and a man.

who's old and sick to doing things. So whether  it's for those kind of activities or practicing. your faith or visiting your relatives or which  is part of Christian life too right you want. to celebrate the holidays with with your family  and friends it becomes very difficult to do the. the reason I'm asking these questions well first  I I think it's worth worrying about Christians. uh who are the minority population well it's worth  Christians in general but the United States is a.

majority Christian country that pays for a huge  percentage of the Israeli economy both through. trade and direct grants and military assistance  and all the rest. Israel couldn't exist without. the United States. So, and it has the support  of so many Christians in the United States and. I don't know if they're fully aware um I want  to think they would care if they knew how the. Christians are doing. And I keep reading that the  Christian population in the region has declined. dramatically since Israel became a state in 1948.  Right. And I'm not quite sure why. Well, again, I.

think it has to do because the whole issue is that  Israel has continued to grow and think that they. can dominate the Christian areas, the the areas  of Palestine. So, they make it very difficult for. anyone else to be able to live there. As simple as  that. But you would think Christians would get a. special pass or dispensation because the United  States is the great patron and it's a Christian. country. No, because well the problem you have  is one with the Christians Zionists the ones who.

don't recognize the Christians in the Holy Land as  being fully Christian apparently because why would. a cru I I I have a very hard time understanding  why someone who who is a calls himself a Christian. and then gives money to support the building of  settlements. Do we understand what that means? The settlements are in the areas of Palestine.  They're taking over the land that belongs to. the people of Palestine. And this has been going  like I said I've been there since 1996 and I've. seen the continued growth of the settlement.  I lived in Bethany biblical Bethany beyond and.

over the mountain of Mount of Olives was the  convent I was in in Jerusalem. And to the east. of me was the settlement of Maly Adam in 1998.  It was a relatively small settlement then. And. then you go down the road to Jericho. It  was one lane. It's now a larger highway. And that settlement of Mal Almine is like a huge  city and has closed off the people of Bethany. We are closed off in Bethany from going to our  convent in Jerusalem because of the wall that.

was built on Palestinian land on Christian land to  there's a there's a Christian home for boys that. the Israelis just took over and cut up to make  part of the wall that separated. So they weren't. it wasn't done for security to build that wall. It  was done simply to expand the borders of Israel. Wait, so they went right through Christian land.  Did Christians in the West say anything about. this? Very few. I mean, I uh there was and also  on that stretch at the lower end of the Mount of.

Olives, there was a nursing home run by a Catholic  church and the the um nun that was in charge, she spoke to the French press and soon after she  was told to she was sent to Lebanon or to another. post, wasn't allowed to be there. Me at the same  time, we had the wall was built right beyond. Lazarus's tomb. Our school is walking distance  from Lazarus's tomb, from where Martha and Mary.

lived. And they built the wall right above  where the tomb is. So that separated some of. our teachers from being able to come to school.  It separated our families on either side of the. wall. So in April of 2005, I went to Washington  and spoke to some Congress people, not to demean. Jews or not to even demean the state of Israel,  to say, "Look, we are being affected by this wall. It's affecting our religious life. I can't bring  my I can't go to visit my convent easily anymore. because of this wall. It's disrupting our school  life and we'd like to see it's not for security.

It's not separating uh Israel from Palestine.  It's separating Palestine from Palestine in. the two. I get back home. I'm sorry. What kind  of reception did you So, you went to Congress. Yeah. And a handful. Actually, I I remember a  very sweet occurrence. He he he's died since, but uh Senator Paul Wellstone of Minnesota, I  was scheduled to meet him and he wasn't there, but then he came and he literally ran down the  hall to catch me. So there were a few there are a.

few people that were sympathetic, but um overall,  no. And and I even felt the sense when I was. talking to people that um that the um like I went  to a meeting where there were a few aids there. of different congress people, right? just in one  office and just felt as if there was someone there. watching what was what what what he was saying or  doing going on. So anyway, so I get back. Did you. meet with any Christian church leaders here in the  US? Unfortunately, I mean the Catholic Church has. done a lot and said a lot, but I I sad to say I I  feel the Orthodox Church in America has been very.

reluctant to speak out on this issue. Why? Or to  be get involved. Maybe sometimes we I think it's a. partly is just simply awareness. Even when people  go on pilgrimages to the Holy Land, they probably. have Israeli tour guides and they don't you know  it's an amazing experience to go to the Holy. Land. It's overwhelming to people, you know, pious  person to go there and you're thinking about going. to see where Jesus was and here I'm on the Sea of  Galilee and you don't really perceive what that.

wall means or who are those people living over  there or how come there's only cars with yellow. plates here and then we were in uh Jericho and I  saw these green and white plates. What does that. mean going on? They don't understand it. So, they  don't get the concept for two weeks. License plate. mean yellow plate is for people who live in the  state of Israel and they can go on certain roads. uh all roads and uh for Palestinians who have  a Jerusalem ID are allowed to have a car with.

a yellow plate and then Palestinians have green  and white plates and they cannot use. So over. that time that I've been here as the settlements  have grown you build the infrastructure for it. the electricity the roads separate roads that are  used only by people that have yellow plates. as a. foreigner and part of a foreign church um we were  entitled to have either those or they also have. white diplomatic plates that kind of diplomatic  and religious plates that are there so there's. very much an apartheid system very much so  it's a and but so which gave me the freedom.

to help my Christians friends in Bethlehem and  other places like one time there was a woman who. uh her daughter they were from Bethlehem married a  Christian who lived in Jerusalem so he had rights. to be in the city of Jerusalem, have blue ID. But  the mother, when the the daughter gave birth to. their first child, she didn't have any way to go  to see her daughter because it would be illegal. for her to go into Jerusalem to get there. So, I  had the school van and I got went to Bethlehem,

go get her. And a lot of times we'd have a little  more leeway. You know, if if I get go through a. checkpoint, they'll see it's a nun and I go pass  through a lot easier than someone else would. So, I was able to get her through to be able to go see  her daughter at the birth of her granddaughter. We're sorry to say it, but this is not a very safe  country. Walk through Oakland or Philadelphia. Yeah, good luck. So, most people when they think  about this want to carry a firearm, and a lot.

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totally blunt with you. the most Americans are  aware that there's a system something like what. you just described, right? But the pretext  for the justification for it is that there's. a lot of Islamic terrorism. There are a couple  inifatas. There are a lot of suicide bombings. and it's Islamic terror and most Americans have  been taught for 25 years that Islamic terror. is this is a threat. And I, you know, there's  some truth in that, of course, but so we assume. that Christians would be getting an exemption  from all this. Why would Christians who are not.

responsible for Christian terror? There's no such  thing. Why would they be penalized for this? Why. wouldn't they, again, when the patron saint state  is majority Christian, why wouldn't the Christians. there be getting some kind of special pass? I  don't I just don't understand that. Why punish. the Christians for Islamic terror? Because I don't  think it's Islamic terror that's taking place in. the first place. I think we have to disabuse  oursel of that notion that this is a a a battle.

between Muslim and Jew or that you know constantly  you heard after October the October event was that. Hamas Hamas Hamas even to this day we hear it's  Hamas Hamas Hamas. What is Hamas? Hamas are people. who have had their homes taken from them who if  they live in Gaza have not been able basically. been in open air prison for certainly the last  20 years going on even when Gaza the Israelis. withdrew from Gaza they didn't leave open borders  there was no freedom for people in Gaza to develop.

their economy if I know people who wanted to try  to go to school in America and couldn't get out of. Gaza you know had had a fullbrite scholarship  and and weren't able to You mean couldn't get. out? Israel didn't give them permission. So what  kind of freedom is that? If you live in Gaza, they. couldn't even fly out. No. And their their airport  had been bombed in what 200 early on 2000 there. was an airport built soon after the Oslo Accords.  But Israel has intervened many time in Gaza and.

little little by little destroyed. You know when  I first went there in 2002 after the second infat. started, I remember saying to my mother back  home, you know, this is genocide. even that. genocide by Chinese water torture, but now we're  seeing genocide uh on steroids. You're American, I should say. Yes, I'm I'm born in America. Yeah.  Lived in America. And um so getting back to Hamas. So also the school I was at has 350 girls. It's  in a in a town that's b 98% Muslim. Um though.

it has roots. I mean, it's the roots of where  Bethany where on our school grounds is a stone. from the sixth century. This is um this is where  Christ met Martha at the resurrection. You know, it's so we're talking about and it's the road  leading there's still part of the road the road. that existed when Christ walked during that time  and would have seen Lazarus and Martha and Mary. Lazarus's tomb is down the road, right? But it and  so permeated even with Palestinian Muslim culture.

is the sense that Christians lived here and they  recognize Jesus as a prophet. So they respect him. as and so there there's there I'm not saying that  everything is perfect. You can't have divisions. between just like even with uh with Christians you  know some Christians might think we should have. uh uh allow politics to be in the church or or  legislate uh Christian morality and others would. think totally different. So you can have sort  of differences opinion if you will and we can. all live with each other between that. So with  Muslim and and Christian they can have their.

differences but overall the Palestinian culture  is infused with both there. So you were a nun. in a majority Muslim town, a Christian nun in  your habit I assume. Uhhuh. And which also was. to an advantage because pious Muslims are not  jihadists the ones that I know. I'm not saying. other parts of the world that may be the case, but  in Palestine it's simply not the case. Or or Syria. or Lebanon or Iraq. The Muslims are for the most  part are it's it they've all grown up together,

the Christians and the Muslims. And um there's  a certain amount of commonality and respect. And so me wearing being dressed like this  was just like many of the women there, right? So they kind of respected that. There's  the same sort of conservative culture. There's. the same sort of idea that we're both have some  same basic values of compassion for our neighbor. of doing of doing taking care of our families  and uh trying to live a they have their form.

of fasting and almsgiving and it's actually very  important to them and I think the best parts of. Islam come from its development from Christian  ideas that that Muhammad came to know. I'm sure. of that. That's a you can sense it. This is a  very different story from the one that we're. told in the American media that Christians are  imperiled by Muslims in the Middle East. They. are not imperiled by uh Muslims in in Palestine.  That is an absolute fact. And if uh yeah, that's.

just simply not the case. And again, going back to  my school, in our school, we had icons which are. part of the Orthodox tradition, pictures of saints  and crosses in every classroom. No problem with. that. I could show you a photograph, I can't now,  but of the graduates of the the the latest high. school graduation. And you know, they're embracing  the nuns. They're they're they're dressed actually. in a more secular way. And yeah, it all it all So  a lot of your students were Muslim. All Yeah. 98%. the only your students were Muslim. Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah. And about half the teach and about half.

the teachers at during the time I was there some  Muslim, some Christian in a Christian school. Yes. And actually that's all throughout Palestine. The  Orthodox is is a relatively small. We we do have. schools in in many of the Palestinian towns,  but also Catholic schools, Lutheran schools, and most of the population. Most of the students  are Muslims. Huh. And and the beautiful thing. about where the great danger is if the Christians  continue to diminish uh a key part of Palestinian. society and within Israel as well. You go to  Nazareth, you'll see many Catholic run hospitals,

schools, and so it's a fabric. It's a part of the  whole character. But I I'm just still confused. by the idea that the Christian population is is  declining under Israeli rule. You would think just. the opposite. What gives them the what I observed  from my time in Israel and going back every year. is that they do not want any Palestinians there.  So the majority of Palest of Christians in Israel.

and and Palestine are Palestinian. So they have to  leave too. I I can I what grieves me is that the. Holocaust is a her horrible horrible thing that  happened. People slaughtered mo fairly quickly. Sometimes the thought comes to me when I've  driven between I'm a drive there's a tunnel road. that leads goes from Jerusalem to Bethlehem and  it's only for the settlers to go on down to the.

continued settlements that lead down further south  in Israel to Hebrron or actually I shouldn't say. Israel into Palestine other Palestinian territory  as you're going that tunnel road has been carved. out of land that belongs to people in Bethlehem in  Beala which you're passing by on that tunnel road. so it's like a living death. How would you like to  be a man? That was your grandfather's olive trees, but now it's controlled by Israel and you're  not even allowed to drive on that road. And on.

that very same road, I remember another a poant  picture. There was a woman that worked at our. convent, a nurse, and took care of the nuns. And  she had a home, a very typical stone uh Arab home, beautiful home with grape vines. I remember going  to pick the grapes at the house that is now part. of is they just confiscated the land. She fought  it her she fought as long as she could to try to. keep her property and for I remember passing  by there some years and there's slowly slowly.

new Israel homes are being built that look very  different and she's there's her something that. looks out of as if it you know belongs to biblical  Palestine. And so what I what I was getting at is. that these people they're dying as they're living  because it's like and I remember sitting at the. home of one of those people in Bejala and they had  lived in the center of town. It was his father's. home and then he built a new one near the Tuthi  Tithakumi Lutheran School. And I'm literally was.

sitting with them one afternoon and he gets a  call from his brother. The Israelis are here. They're pulling up our olive trees, cutting them  down on on some of their land. And he ran over. He. got collected as many of the trees as he could.  Military order. That's what it was. They just. go and do it even though it's not their land. And  then military order. Nothing you can do. They have. jeeps and and weapons. You're not going to stop  them. But he was able to take some of those trees. This shows the resiliency. And the word is samud.  It's like it's a it's a quiet persistence. This.

is our land. and we're going to stay here. And  this man is a doctor who studied in Hungary. He. took those olive trees and they now are in a plot  of land next to his new house and trying to grow. So it's like this is I'm not sure what Israel  is trying to do. I mean, it's horrific what's. going on in Gaza. And what is very concerning  to me and why I'm grateful to be on your show. is that what is going to happen the people that  I know in the West Bank, Christian and Muslim,

it's it's it's not said, but it's like we're  next that what they've done to Gaza is going. to come to us because who's going to stop them?  already in the northern parts where the refugee. the UNRA the refugee camps were. I was there in  September. They had already been um making raids. I was in the center of Janine, right in front  of the Catholic church. They had bulldozed the.

middle of the road and broken the water pipes. No  bullet holes. I lived in 2002 during the antifad. in Bethlehem. The whole city was full of bullet  holes. So, there hadn't been any confrontations, but they were still bulldozing and doing what they  wanted to do to wreck the infrastructure to make. it harder for people to go to work up there. But  now, in the last 8 months, they've cleared out. um at least 15,000 people in Tulcarum and Janine  in the northern part. They they don't they're not. in their homes. Do you hear those stories? And  these affect Christians as well. If it ain't.

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for uh for Israel, Pastor John HGY. I was  in Washington a few weeks ago because well, they had a conference in Baltimore. So it's it's  slowly growing an awareness by other Christians. in America that just like many Jews are protesting  and saying not in our name and Jewish you know the. Jews Jewish voice for peace there has to be much  more done by the Christians in America because. these Christian Zionists are speaking in our name.  Someone like Ted Cruz Senator Cruz is saying and.

doing what he's doing because he's following a  Christianity that is not the Christianity of the. Holy Land. It's not the Christianity of a Catholic  or an Orthodox or or a traditional Christian. It's. a it's the it's a heretical belief. What what what  is Christian Zionism? As far as I understand it, they they believe in the idea of the rapture. They  believe that, you know, that um it's sort of this. this cruel bargain they have going with Israel  because basically what they say that they're.

going to be uh swooped up into heaven, right? and  then there's going to be a thousand-year kingdom. and then there'll be the end of the world and the  judgment by Christ and he'll come back. This is. a false it was it was condemned as a heresy in  381 because basically there is no thousand-year. millennium to come. No thousand-year period. The  end will we are in that time period now. And so. it's it's a false belief there. And the the So  basically they're arguing is that Jesus coming.

the first time wasn't enough. Yeah. And it's it's  like in a way it's denying the Messiah be as as a. as an Orthodox Christian, the most important thing  in my life is that we receive the body and blood. of Christ. And we prepare ourselves to receive  that body because Christ came as God and as man. And if you read John, it's actually 666. First he  says, "Take, eat. This is my body and drink. This.

is my blood." And many of people that heard the  saying and found it to be a hard saying and turned. away from him. Yeah. So everybody was Jewish then,  right? But some believed and some didn't. And some. continued to follow only the law. And some said,  and Christ superseded the law. He said, "There's. something more than that law. I am the law. I  fulfill the law in the prophets." We believe in. the feast of the transfiguration on Mount Tabor.  It it takes place near Nazareth. I I've been there. many times. And in our icons, in our images, you  see Moses and you see Elijah aside Jesus because.

the law and the prophets have been fulfilled in  Jesus Christ. He came and said, "I'm the church. I'm your salvation." And you know what I think  often about is where I lived in in the Mount of. Olives, St. Mary Magdalene convent, right above  it is a Catholic monastery called Dominus Flavid. Christ wept. It's where Christ wept. And I I think  of it often now because to some degree with Muslim. Muslims to a lesser degree because they retain  some of the Christian sensibility, but he's.

weeping over the people that didn't see him, that  didn't understand who he was. And the pro okay so. they follow only the law. And I think that's why  you see these are people that can somehow justify. allowing for the starvation and ethnic cleansing  of so many people. Because if think of the stories. from the gospels where um Christ heals the man  with the withered hand. Yes. And he's looking. behind him are the Pharisees and he's grieved at  their hardness of heart because he was healing.

healing doing a work on the Sabbath day and that  was against the law. And so now these Christians. of wrong belief believe that they need to rebuild  the temple as part of their plan. So they believe. that the current state of Israel which has nothing  to do with the biblical Israel is needed to be. built up so that then somehow they can restore and  build that temple fulfill an obligation of the law.

and the price of that they're willing to forgo  the compassion that Christ talked about and allow. people to be starved and wiped out. And Christians  in America have to understand that you're allowing. both people who support the state of Israel who  who are Jewish or and those Christians who think. they're doing something in the name of Christ when  it's far from the name of Christ and it's actually. causing the end of the Christian population  in the Holy Land. It's going to be the numbers.

have dwindled. Now we're getting to the small  thousands. I I just received a call the other day. Jacob's well is in the in the in the large city  of Nablas in the center of the West Bank which. has been grievously um raids take place all the  time and it's very difficult but what happened. the other day was that a a Christian run factory  in Nablas there's about 600 uh families around 600. pe Christians number of churches and Jacob's  well which is a very important site to us we.

always go there on a pilgrimage when we can and  their factory um no warning no permit First on. June 26th I believe the Israeli army came in and  confiscated some of the factory equipment and then. uh two weeks later they came and blew up a big  portion of the uh factory. So how are people. supposed to have a I they they gave no reason.  There was no permit. They have a law they have. lawyers. There has been as far as I know to this  date no court order, no reason. And the only thing.

I mean quickly what popped into my head because  it it is a metal making factory. Okay, they must. be using it to make weapons, right? These are  Christians who have been there for decades to. centuries, I think, even the family. And um it's a  well-known business. All right. And um no no order. was given and and quite I almost feel uh a little  worried about saying anything because I don't know. what the repercussions will be with that family  because they have no recourse. Who do they go to? Where's Ted Cruz in all this? Ted Cruz talks about  how he's a Christian. Mike Johnson is the speaker.

of the house talks about how he's a Christian.  They talk about it a lot actually. I I think they. have to re we have to real I I I'm not sure that  it can be done by uh we have to battle Apac and. the Christian Zionists by the Christians standing  up say not in my name we can't be doing this so. if they're getting money from these organizations  then Christians have to have enough concern to say. I don't want this happening in my name no and to  my brothers in Christ right exactly and not only.

it's the real people the living stones that are  there that that keep the churches open that keep. things going, but also for our Christian legacy.  You know, we're supposedly a country based on a. Judeo-Christian heritage, right? But so where  is that Judeo-Christian heritage when you're. destroying the very foundations of it? St. Jerome  uh translated the Bible in Bethlehem. His his the. cells where he was at are under the Church  of the Nativity. You know, the the the very. roots of the our Christian heritage are there and  we're letting it be destroyed. not physically and.

uh yeah physically by killing the people  but also there's a a wonderful person when. you talk about resistance this all started with  Hamas so for the most part I would say they're. a resistance move there simply people fighting  for their people trying to protect their land. um and I don't know if we want to reach into  the area of the whole problem is is there was. never defined what Palestine is you know the Oslo  Accords took place and then there was nothing to.

um there was area A, B, and C, and you didn't have  a Palestine. So, little by little, Israel just. keeps taking over the land. I said, confiscating,  building the settlements, adding the checkpoints, and making strangling the life of anybody living  there. Um, now I lost my train of thought. I'm. going to Well, here's a story you probably haven't  heard a lot about. The Chinese mafia is exploiting. rural America to create a drug empire. This is  not available on cable news. The network's not.

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of churches and schools to aid the operation, the  jerryrigging of power boxes to steal electricity, foreign pesticides, collusion with the Mexican  cartels. It's it's unbelievable. By the way, one of the drug houses is like walking distance  from my house. I didn't know that. It's a. layered and fascinating story. Head to tucker  carlson.com to watch now. We think you'll love it. the state of Israel um you know is less than 80  years old but that area is thousands of years old.

controlled by various empires as you've said uh  and then finally the British up until 1948 during. all that time huge pieces of land were owned  by various Christian churches particularly in. Jerusalem do they what what happened to that do  they still own that land they own the land but. this is where it's sort of the um a lesser kind of  pers persecution is that um they use legal means. or semi-legal means because you have land that  was under the Ottoman Empire and there might be.

some documents or or certain leases and they say  well the lease is up now we have to renegotiate it. and suddenly the Christians have lost a portion of  their land or they'll use middlemen and say and it. it's sort of acts of deceit and they end up buying  large these these front companies come and buy off. some of the land and you don't realize that it's  going to not Christians or not to Palestinians. and being used in another way in in Jerusalem all  all yeah primarily around Jerusalem Jerusalem and.

Bethlehem there's large chunks that have been  taken the Knesset sits on the uh uh own land. owned by the Jerusalem patriarchy what yeah well  it was their land yeah and they have a lease they. have a lease for it how did they get it well  obviously they allowed them to have that was a. legal operation that was done. Yeah. To have that  land is um when you first got there 30 years ago, were there more Christians than there are now?  There were more. I mean, it still has been a.

relatively small population um in the tens of  thousands, I think, in in Palestine overall. And but it's certainly I think the greater  degree and little by little it's decreased. Um, but it's really getting frightening now because  I think these last two years is sort of like. almost pushed people over the edge. But then you  hear of families in communities like five or 10. families that are leaving now going to Europe,  sometimes the US or Canada or Australia and and.

that's not only Christians. Of course, Muslims  are a bigger population. It because there are. people if you're raising your child and there's  no job opportunities for them and quite frankly. there's a good likelihood that they if you're a  teenage boy that you could get shot. I don't I. mean I know a number of kids in in Alazaria where  I was 14 15 year olds who have been shot and look. at the difference in that. what supposedly  throwing a Molotov cocktail. And I now think. about when the the war started in with Ukraine  and Russia. I remember a story in the New York.

Times. It's it it was a huge story celebrating  that a beer factory was now generating Molotov. cocktails to throw against the Russians and it  that was celebrated in Palestine. I hundreds. of teenage boys have been killed because Israel  will say they were throwing a Molotov cocktail. And I know of one case in he wasn't even I think  he was 12 years old last year. I know a beautiful.

man and Dr. Saleem who's Muslim but who used to  take care of the nuns at our convent. He lives in. Chaot refugee camp which is part of Jerusalem.  They pay Jerusalem taxes but a wall surrounds. them. They're they're they're guarded by Israeli  soldiers. He tries to run a disability center, but they're constantly being raided. People being  detained by the uh the Israelis and the the um. the infrastructure there. If you can tell when  you're Palestine, East Jerusalem versus the West.

One has sidewalk, nice sidewalks, good schools,  the other is decrepit. Anyway, the Dr. Saleem. uh there was a boy at the camp there, 12 years  old. It was a Muslim holiday and he had he was. shot dead and what they said was he had thrown  a molotov. He was 200 yards from any soldier and. they shot him. But that literally happens every  day. I have a young man that we just helped come. to America a year and a half ago who lives north  of Hebron the Christian and his family he went.

to school a half hour north in Shepherd's Field.  We wanted to bring him to America because he was. at that age where you look the wrong way at a  soldier and it's a possibility of getting shot. He's Christian but he could be Muslim. It doesn't  you know the point is that this is what happens. to them. So any normal family how you know they  want to stay in their land. It's difficult. It's. difficult to immigrate. How are you going to be  treated going to another country and have to you. know pick up your livelihood and leave leave other  family members. It's not an easy thing to do, but yeah, it is happening that the population  is declining and the priests are very concerned.

I've talked to a number of priests in the in the  West Bank and they're aware of the situation. So, what we're hoping to do, you know, there's  sort of a latent movement of Christians that. don't have this Christian Zionist perspective  and you know, the Catholic Church has always. done some to support the communities over there,  but we haven't done anything politically because. ultimately it's not the money that's needed  now. It has to be the change that we have.

to change the support of Israel if you allow the  settlements continue. If you continue, you know, uh James Carville, right, he was under Clinton  and he he came up with a phrase for the campaign, it's the economy, stupid. The problem with Israel  and Palestine is not Muslim versus Jew, it's the. occupation stupid. That's really what it comes  down to. And unless we get uh something where a. sovereign Palestinian state where they're granted  their freedom is created and maybe that'll be two. states with a boundary or maybe it'll be some sort  of confederation. That's up to the politician to.

decide. But unless there's freedom and an ability  for the Palestinians to develop and and and be. free to have their country, um Christians will  continue to leave. And what will happen? Not only. those living stones will leave but the holy sites.  You know what gives me the greatest pleasure is. uh after I left uh Jerusalem I've lived in America  but two times a year I've been pilgrims people who.

want to come and visit the holy sites. Go and see  where Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected. Go see where he was born. Go up to the Sea  of Galilee. Be a part of that. And in and. uh one of our saints says taking a pilgrimage to  the Holy Land is like the fifth gospel. So we can. read the Bible all we want but it's when we go  there and really are at the places where our Lord. walked and lived and performed his miracles that  you really it it deepens your your Christianity. and your sense of if the one of the loveliest  things is I take people of all ages and I'll.

ask them younger people at the end of the trip. So  what what do you like the most? Some people might. say the Dead Sea or something, but I've also been  struck that 15-year-old boys will come back and. tell me it's when we went to the holy supplr into  the tomb of Christ. Yes. So, so there's obviously. something there that's important to our Christian  heritage and what's happening is if the Christians. are forced to leave, if Israel takes greater  control, what we will have is museums. They.

won't be living places of prayer. And that will  be a great tragedy not only for the Christians. but I think for the whole world. Yeah. Because  they're not owned by government. I mean these are. pre-existing they've been there for centuries.  Exactly. And and they have gone down in upo. I mean there have been times over the centuries  where where Christians have had difficult times. and then rose up again and did. So uh I think  actually we're in one of those dark times. I mean, we could go into whole explanation of  why the world way it is. Why do we even allow.

this is mindboggling to me. It's getting painful.  I can't look at anything right now. I And I think. a lot of people every day these stories of what is  happening and people justifying it to anyone with. a conscience. It's sort of like what are we doing  and how is this evil been allowed to grow and. develop? Did you make any converts in Palestine  ever? Did you Muslims converting to Christianity. Um, it's a it's a you have to be careful with  it, but I I will say that I don't know those.

Muslims that have converted to Christianity, but  it's not something you can do openly. Not that. they're going to be killed, but it's not it won't  be looked upon well, and it's not easy to do. Um, yeah. Uh, uh, we in Palestine. Yeah. You can  talk to people. I guess it doesn't you know the. interesting thing is I'm orthodox and in orthodoxy  we don't aren't really a procilitizing faith it's. a faith that's becomes of what you are and how you  live you know what I mean it's just so you don't.

actively do missionary work in in a lot of cases  mostly it's just by your example and that was. the first Christians right and who were martyrs  or or were people or their way of life because. they weren't pagans because they were trying  they were trying to treat people decently and. people responded to that they you were following  the message of Christ and that people said oh. yeah well we really don't want to live like the  cberitic life that we were living before and that. looked appealing to people so that's that is  what the witness of Christianity is and that's.

another reason why if it's gone uh it'll only  hasten the bloodshed and the destruction in the. Middle East because I think the Christians are a  buffer between Muslim and Jew in um in Palestine. and that makes sense were you there there was a  siege at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, birthplace of Jesus. Um maybe 2002, I remember.  Oh yes, I was there. Yeah. Yeah. I had uh that's. where I became especially close to the Palestinian  Christian community cuz in Bethany there aren't.

that many Christians, but we had teachers from  there and students from there, the boarding. students. And when the siege happened, it wasn't  just a siege on the church itself. What they. claimed was that there were some fighters that  were in the church who which actually that's a. Christian tradition, you know, for people to take  refuge in a church. But the Israelis used that as. a as a way to well, they besieged the church for  and but the whole town was under siege, not just. the church. So that meant that the teachers  who lived in the Bethlehem area couldn't get.

out of Bethlehem to come over to Bethany. People  couldn't get food and medicines. After a while, it became uh I would get calls and saying, you  know, my neighbor has epilepsy and we cannot get. a new medication for her. Can you find a way  to get something in, you know, through a care. organization into us? And finally, when the siege  end during that time, I remember a doctor telling. me how describing how someone had been shot uh in  in his house and he was bleeding to death. And he.

was calling the doctor, you know, what do I do?  What can I do? And the doctor literally heard. him just bleed to death during that because no  ambulance, nothing was allowed. And after the. 40 days, roughly 40 days, which is ironic. Um,  uh, I went in there and I met up with some of. the people. The everything was strewn with garbage  all over the streets, the bullet holes. You know, what Israel likes to do is destroy. Not only did  they do they control the place, but they almost. take glee. And we're not talking about Hamas time.  We're not talking about, you know, 2023. We're.

talking about 2002. They would go through the  town of Bethlehem and purposely with their tanks, a piece, the smaller ones, like knock over the  light poles or the the things that are garnished. with Christmas trees, you know, decorations and  things, and knock them over in the middle of. town or pull their bulldozer and smash a car. But  again, that same resiliency of the Palestinians, the Simude, I have a photograph. Uh he's actually  the father of one of the priests now in Bethlehem.

And he's sitting on his car that had been smashed  by the Israelis just with a smile kind of like, "You're not going to stop us. We're going to  carry on. You know, you did this to me, but I'm. going to carry on." There were people shot inside  the church in the Yeah. The bell ringer there was. shot dead. Yeah. And I know there of course. Yeah.  Yeah. So that was the moment and Christians were. s shot outside the church. I don't I don't  know if it was exactly during those 40 days, but a a young 16-year-old boy who alter boy of the  church, you know, there were curfews going on and.

they had tanks all uh all around the city circling  them and he was out with his 70-year-old cousin, I think it was, and they were just kicking  a soccer ball. He was shot dead by a sniper, 16-year-old Johnny Talgia. You remember his name?  Of course. And also there was another Christine. Sada. Her father was the principal of the Orthodox  school in Betsahor, Shepherd's Field. They were. driving and the Israeli soldiers who that is area  A, right? If you want to talk about the politics.

of it, technically that means it was under full  Palestinian control. They should have their police. and everything. No. Israeli jeeps were there and  they mistakenly thought that was a car of some. militant. So they shot up the car. Um his wife  was injured. his he was injured as well and his. 12-year-old daughter Christine was killed. Why?  What did they do wrong? They thought the Israelis. thought that was somebody that was going to do  something bad. Was anyone ever punished for it?

Of course not. Of course not. I had an incident  in front of our school where they had put us on. curfew and uh our girls, the bedroom of the border  girls were on on the main street and I look out, it was curfew time, but I saw and there were  soldiers sort of marching up and down the street, a handful of them, not like a brigade. And um  there was a man walking up to the soldier and I. thought, "Oh my goodness, it's a Palestinian man."  It turned out he was deaf mute and he wasn't from. Bethany. He was from Hebron, but he had relatives  there. He didn't understand what was going on cuz.

they called call curfew any time and then he  got to get off the street. So the soldiers shot. him in the the man's a deaf mute and he ended up  getting shot in the eye. He survived but he was. shot in the eye right outside our door. And for  all for a couple years we had a tank in front of. the school and often I had to um Why was were the  girls dangerous at the school? Well the town the. Palestinians are dangerous. All Palestinian Yeah.  Yeah. 5-year-old girls are dangerous. But what. was danger to us is um uh Mount of Olives. This  was before the or while the process of the wall.

being built, there had been a situation where some  settlers probably the PE followers of Bengavier, they had taken a a little truck and they had  explosives and they had gone in front of a high. school on um on the top of the Mount of Olives.  Fortunately, it was stopped before they blew. it up. So every day I remember for at least  six months because they'd also done something. similar near us near the Mali Adam settlement. I  would actually go, we had a fairly large property.

and there's like gates on either side where the  girls would come in. Every morning I'd be up at. 6:00 in the morning and go make sure that there I  didn't see like a little bomb someplace cuz that. was what was going on. And totally the settlers  you worried the settlers would bomb the school. They attempted to. They attempted to. There were  a couple occasions. Palestinians, but kids doesn't. matter. It's a doesn't matter at all. I remember  thinking in 2002 when the bell ringer was shot.

um in the church on the site where Jesus was born.  So, it's kind of the center of Christianity. That. and the church of the holy supplicer where he was  buried. M um remember thinking like are American. Christians in the United States who whose weapons  literally they were using AR-15 platforms for this. American rifles American ammunition uniforers  American bulldozers are they really going to. put up with this? Was there any push back from the  United States? The problem is is the um the lack.

of awareness that our mass media I worked at CNN  at the time and I interviewed Benjamin Netanyahu. about this at the time. I'll never forget it. And  what was his response? Terrorists. Like we do what. we have to do. No apologies. But I said, "But  that's our church." And it's also have nothing. to do with this. So what are you doing? And it was  like shut up anti-semite. But I remember thinking. maybe I mean I'm just some like semi agnostic  news douche from CNN, but like where are the.

ministers on this? They think a lot of times they  didn't want to get involved. It's what the the. the same fear that the mainstream media seems to  have is that we don't want to rock the boat and. it's and also to be fair because the mainstream  media doesn't do its job fully. People are given. a very distorted picture of events. So they don't  know what's happened or going on or for this is a. kind of a minor example but at that time period uh  my brother was coming up for a job at ABC News and.

there was a story on the page six New York Post  George's crazy my name that my name at that time. was Maria George's crazy sister Maria and what  they said it was like the Drudge Report where. it came from that kind of thing that I had said  that Israeli soldiers were raping women in um in. Bethlehem. Point of fact, someone had contacted  me about that in an email from America and said, "Did you hear anything about any anything going on  like that?" And I said, "No, you know, we have a.

lot of difficulties. I do know where they've gone  into doctor's clinics and they've like broken the. uh the sonogram machine and they they put graffiti  on it, just went to the bathroom on there." the. same kind of things that they're doing in Gaza,  they were doing it in in the early 2000s, raiding. people's homes for to to may have a vantage point  and then steal the things in there and herd the. family into one room. And so I said, but you know,  I said, "Well, let me check it out. I haven't. heard any stories like that." And I contacted  friends in Beth. I said, "No, no." The Christian.

said, "No, nothing like that has happened." And  I wrote back to that person and said that. But it. didn't matter. They put it that cuts what comes  out on the news is what they want to come out on. the news. So, this was someone trying to keep your  brother from getting a job at ABC News. Either to. keep it or to keep him in line, right? You don't  want to step out and say anything against Israel. Would did you talk to your brother about it? It's  a difficult conversation and I think it's probably. better for him to to say why or he does. I think  I think it's the it's not it's not his problem. I.

think it's a problem in all of mainstream media  and it's certainly a great problem right now. I mean, you know, and even with this, we're  dealing now. It's becoming a lot of publicity. on this even though it is being distorted.  I actually watched the news this morning and. uh James Strides is on and he's talking about  it's all Hamas and they show the emaciated. hostage and as if you know we would everything  would be okay if only Hamas would release the. hostage and and and that's the starvation when  it's it's taking place. Millions of people are.

being starved. Babies are dying there. And we're  focused. God, I I hope the hostage gets freed. He. should get freed. And he should get freed. And  Israel should remove themselves from Gaza and. allow the the the food to get in. And that's and  and Christians should be pushing for that. And I. think we are seeing that to some degree now. But  it's still obscuring the main point. Like I said, the the great the unspoken thing when I talk to  all my friends on the West Bank now is that I said. they know we're next that it's going to happen  and it will happen. Maybe we'll go back to that.

time where it'll be more like they they play a  long game. You know, even with this settlement. building, we'll build and then if America gives a  little bit of push back, okay, we stop for a while. and then we start again. So maybe even in the  West Bank for now, if there's hopefully will be. some resolution with a ceasefire and and bringing  food into Gaza, that in the West Bank that they'll. um step back for a little while, but that doesn't  mean that in another few months they'll there'll.

be some provocation. Like I said, they've already  wiped out thousands of people from refugee camps. in Tartum and Janine. They're making life very  difficult in many towns in Taiba in Bethlehem. water is is not given to the city. So you don't  have water unless you have your water tanks. And. there's no rain. You know, when I first moved to  Jerusalem and you do your laundry, you hang it. outside and I come there in May, there's no rain  till October if you're lucky. So those water tanks. aren't getting filled during the summertime. And  so if and Israel controls the access to the water.

to the Palestinian towns. So if they decide they  only get it once a week, you only get it once. a week. While they have swimming pools in their  settlements and green plush grass that Christian. Zionists are paying for. Have you um you know  a lot of Christians in the Holy Land, how many. support the government of Israel? Do you know  the Palestinians within Israel? Yeah, Christians. support the government of Israel. I can't I I  don't know that they would be any that really.

would any what's the what's the especially now  any I they're literally throwing out Palestinian. uh representatives. So in the US there's a sense  that Christians support this program. Of course. not. And and to the you know when I first moved  there in 98 there was hope for peace and there. there was a much stronger peace movement within  Israel. people who recognize not just a cold peace. but that we can live together and we should work  towards that but that's certainly been abolished.

It's just so st I lived in DC for all this but  like at the you know the final decade of the. Cold War there were a lot of uh Jews in the Soviet  Union who were being persecuted. Well, everyone in. the Soviet Union is being persecuted including  the Jews and um and they came to Israel. Yeah, they came to Israel. came to the United States  and there were Jewish groups in the US and in. Israel that I supported then and I support now  who said we got to get our people out of there. and help them. They're called refusnix, right?  And my dad worked in this actually. And um I.

thought that was great. Sure. You don't see that  with any Christian group with Christians in the. Middle East. There's no Christian group in the  United States that I'm aware of. It's like, hey, those are our people. Maybe we should help.  No, they are very in fact there was just a. conference down in Atlanta. There's something  called Churches for Middle East peace and there. group like Telos Group. um there's Christians  for a free Palestine, but they're very small. and they're not so much part of the institute,  you know, the the hierarchy of the church. Well, but to we had Pope Francis did speak out and I  think certainly the Catholic Church in America has.

to lot do a lot more as an institution. I mean,  we should have a Christian apac group. Yeah. The. Yeah. going on. Like you're not allowed to shoot  up the Church of the Nativity. Sorry. I mean, and even if you're agnostic on the politics of  it or whatever, which is fine, maybe preferable, but you can't do that to Christians. How about  no, I agree 100%. So, we have to move to that. Weird. But, but to be that gets back to the thing  though is that people don't always see the whole. story and we're we're we're just flooded with this  message that those terrorists are coming to get us.

next, which is absurd. Has any member of Hamas  or anybody of a Palestinian come and threatened. America as an American? No. That's not their  that's not what they're about. The thing is that. but that's the the tactic that's used is that um  we have to plaster them is being these jihadists. when they're nothing like that. It's a Are they  um I mean I'm sure you've dealt with Haman or know. people who right. Are they religious fanatics? Are  they jihadis? Not the people that I know. Like I.

said, when I when I was again in in at the school,  we had a couple teachers uh Muslim men and there. were some elections going on and it wasn't Hamas  then. It was it was the social party or something, but it was definitely a relig Muslim religious  party. I would have voted for those guys because. they they weren't corrupt. They wanted to serve  their people and that's what it was about. So, I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere.  I'm not totally ingrained in in the community,

but um I don't it doesn't the vibe there isn't  one of wanting everybody to convert to Islam and. forcing it upon them at all at all. And the  purpose of Hamas is primarily to resist and. to protect their people and their land. It's not  just um Palestine and Israel where the Christian. population has shrunk. It seems like throughout  the Levant. Yes. We just and I think that's part. of the whole greater Israel project. You know,  isn't it so ironic that they've made such a big.

targeting Christians? Targeting Christians. Yeah.  Well, targeting to to make control for Israel, for example, in Syria. I I went to Syria in 2004  and I went to the place the convent of St. Decla. where outside of Damascus in Malula where the  nuns were kidnapped by ISIS. Right. And the. the population is over 10% Christian. And you  have ancient Christian sites as well as vibrant.

monastic communities there and vibrant churches  and hospitals that were run by the church by in. Syria and Lebanon, right? And now what have we  done? And so Assad wasn't perfect. Saddam Hussein. wasn't perfect. But the Middle East is not the  United States. And we tried to impose oursel there. and get rid of these governments who for all their  repression also kept the people together allowed. minorities to survive there including Christians.  Including Christians. Yeah. And Christians. Yeah.

And this and just recently and so I find it  mindboggling that now we take sanctions off. after Assad is gone and we put in place someone  who was dish who was part of ISIS. Does a leopard. change its spots? And how are the Christians in?  Well, we had the bombing. We had the actually. the very, if you may, I'd like to look for the  statement. Yeah. From Patriarch John of Antioch, whose brother was a bishop and was kidnapped in  uh 2010 and presumed to be dead now. And in June,

uh there was a bombing, a suicide bombing in the  church in uh in Damascus, Marilas. And Patriarch. John, he didn't pull any punches. He came and he  said to the he gave a eulogy but he also called. out the government because they didn't really  condemn the act at all the ISIS government and. and he says apostle Paul uh in his epistle to the  Romans for whether we live we live to the Lord and. whether we die we die to the Lord. The rock of  our faith is the Lord who rose from the dead and.

the martyrs who live who lie before us today are  children of the resurrection. They dwell in the. divine light. They did not die. They are alive.  they have passed on even if in this horrific way. to the one whom they loved. He's he's living like  we're supposed to live as Christians is talking. at it the Christians there. But then he says but  I will say boldly Mr. President Abu Jalani Ashar. the the former head of HDS head of the the ISIS  group we deeply regret Mr. President that in the.

immediate aftermath of the crime not a single  government or state official was present at the. scene except for Mrs. Hinn Kabowat a Christian. We  regret that deeply. We are an integral component. of this nation and we are here to stay. Let  me remind you the two archbishops of Aleppo, Bulos and Yuana were kidnapped and much was said  at the time. The Malula nuns were also kidnapped. and here we still are. This highinest crime was  committed the day before yesterday and we will.

remain here. We appeal to you, Mr. president  for a government that does not get distracted. by issuing unnecessary decisions unworthy of  mention from the sacred royal door. We call for. a government that takes responsibility and shares  in the suffering of its people. Mr. President, the people are hungry. If some have not told  you, I am telling you, honorable uh come and. take care of your people. I think that's pretty  bold for a guy who had his brother kidnapped, just had a number of petitioners bombed, and  he's telling someone who has been known to.

be a terrorist calling him out. That's pretty  bold. I would say that's pretty bold. So, um, the government of of Syria now, the government  run by the former ISIS leader is pro-Israel. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the whole plan. And  uh you know when you get to it they talked about. um the from the river to the sea, right? Where  where did that statement come from? Look at the. charter of Lud, the party of Netanyahu. They very  clear very clearly say from the Jordan into the.

Mediterranean is is going to be Israel and really  from the Nile to the Euphrates which means going. into Iraq into the edges of Egypt and up to Salah.  So that's why we had the war in Iraq. Why did our. our young people have to die? Why did we have  to spend so much money on a war? I was supposed. to visit Iraq in in early 2000s. Um our school  secretary, her father was born in Mosul and he.

was an a Syrian Christian and so we this is an  opportunity to go and visit him and that's when. they started chopping off the heads and doing  things. So we thought better of making that. part of the trip. But how many how many Christians  were displaced from Iraq during that time? Almost. all of them. Almost all of them. And now in Syria,  you're seeing the same thing. Which in 2004, I saw. vibrant communities. I saw people who could live  even under Assad as Christians. Now they're in. fear for what's going to happen to them. I I mean  it's hard to see this as an accident. So, West.

Bank, Gaza, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, all places where  US foreign policy chutzers at the behest of Israel. see the destruction of Christian communities.  I'm guessing that's like not an accident. No, not at all. It's definitely part of a plan. But  the thing is, why should we be supporting that. plan? And also, you know, we're focusing on the  Christians, but I said I we had student girls who. were Russian background who lived in the cities  of Israel. And what you've seen the last 20 years,

too, instead of that nent peace movement, instead  of people who tolerated their neighbor and could. live with their neighbor, we it's become a totally  militant society. The girls I know that are there. now, it's a lot of aggression and a lot of hatred.  And how many Israelis have you having big problems. in Greece now? I don't know if you've seen the dem  I'm a Greek, right? People are parading through. the straits because Israelis have left Israel even  though they're the ones that have all the defense,

right? All the protection. Even what kind of  a country is Netanyahu trying to have? Do you. really want to leave live in a in a militarized  country that's always in in fear and always. thinking that they should they're under attack  when they don't have to be? You say it's more. hostile. You see these videos of Christians,  priests with crucifixes around their necks. getting spit on in Jerusalem. Is are those real?  Yes. And I mean that's happened before, you know, even from the first days that I was there.  There'd be occasionally something like that.

And occasionally there were uh graffiti put on  walls and uh yeah, sprayed on Jesus a monkey 2013. on a church. Yeah, that was right in Tabka. the  where the multiplication of the the loaves and the. fish a Catholic community graffiti there talking  about getting rid of the idols or something like. that some sort of old testament statement and  do and burning burning a a statue of the Virgin. Mary and parts of the monastery there so but it  that was a small segment like even at that time.

Bengavir and smotish were like sort of outcasts  in Israel they weren't the prominent members of. Israeli society and what they represented in those  religious zealots of of the but now they're they. are in power and they're dominating everything  and you know they say sometimes that if if the. Israelis didn't have the Palestinians there'd  be a civil war between the secular and the. uh religious Jews which is true that would happen  do Oh there's enormous tension enormous do you.

know anyone who's been spit on any Christians  who've been spit on me you've been spit on of. course Yeah. What do you mean? Of course.  That's disgusting. Yeah. Well, but that's. the least of it. It's a That's the least of it.  But again, I'm saying this as a perspective from. the perspective of someone who lives in a majority  Christian country that's paying for all of this, right? So that's kind of the that's the or I'll  tell you a story. My father is a priest, right?

A Greek Orthodox, which mean and he was wearing a  collar suit. He visited one time and we villaged. the town of we visited the town of Tya and it uh  there was a checkpoint before you enter into the. town. Can you give us perspective where is Ty?  Tya is biblical Ephre it's when Christ uh after. he raised Lazarus from the dead he went about 10  miles to the northeast of Jerusalem Bethany area. to prepare himself before he would come back to  Jerusalem for his crucifixion. Ephraim is is known.

as the town of um of compassion of solace. Even  in the time of Saladine, they came they actually. was called Ephraim. It's now called Tiba which  means the good or the beautiful. So was it sort of. had that reputation. So he went there to prepare  himself for his crucifixion. 20 miles not even 20. miles from from Jerusalem. Interesting. So with  your father who was my dad. Yeah. of famous an. American priest. Yeah. Dressed as a priest and my  mom was there too. So we were going to drive in. So, there's a checkpoint sort of at the entrance  of the town. And then you have many olive groves,

which by the way, uh I was just talking to someone  the other day. Uh they have about 8,000 acres of. land, let's say, and over a quarter of it has  been confiscated either by settlers and the. army allowing them to take their olive groves.  And there's they have no recourse. There's. nothing. Who owns the land? The Palestinian  Christian families and it's been confiscated. from Christian families. Well, confiscate. What  do you do when they have guns and you don't? I don't know you you call your patron church  in the west and you say raise a stink call Ted.

Cruz and other self-described Christian came  right and then the only thing the so what did. Mike the US ambassador to Israel he said he was  very concerned because the the also it happened. which so they didn't there's three churches in in  Taiba an orthodox Greek Catholic and Catholic and. there's also the ruins of a 4th century church  that pe still partially stands and people will. still go there sometimes. Not full services  but just to be at the spot. It's a place that.

was built by St. Helen in the 4th century. George  of St. George. Settlers burned the brush and also. there's a cemetery right next to it. Burned that  area. They burned the cemetery. It everything's. stone there. So nothing burns but they burned  the area around there. So you have grass and. brush that was burned. And not only that, I was  shocked when I saw how much they've infiltrated. It's one thing the entrance of town and you've  taken the open land, the olive groves. They have. bedawin like in that town there's a beer factory,  a distillery, a hotel and bedawins are living have.

been forced off their land around there and are  now living at with allowance of the Christians to. to be there because they have no place else to go  and no one to protect them. So, Ambassador Huckabe. comes and he's very concerned because an attack  on a church and also that same week a Palestinian. American had been shot dead by settlers or beaten  to death. Sif Musat 20 m not even few a couple. miles away and he was going to address that as a  Palestinian American to to see that Israel would.

investigate. Nobody's been arrested or died. He's  an American citizen. Yes, he's from Florida. He's. often just like I'm American citizen was beaten  to death by settlers and no one was arrested. No, never happens down in Hebbrine just and the  concern my concern in talking to and we're. sure that happened. We're absolutely sure that  happened. Yeah. How can an American citizen be. beaten to death in an Israeli controlled area paid  for by the United States and nobody does anything.

about it? Well, this is our problem, isn't it?  That's I'm sorry I keep stepping on your story. So, So, Ambassador Huckabe shows up. He shows  up and he says, you know, he's very concerned. about what happened and we're going to check it,  you know, but the next day settlers were there. with cows marching through the town with their  cows. So, it shows that they they are in control, in control. And not only that, just a couple  days ago, this is a week after he's been there,

you know, in the Bible, there's the story of  Ruth. One of the women in Taiba is married to. a but she's a Greek American married. They met  in school in Boston. They got married. He was. going to business school. Her husband he came  back to Palestine to establish the business. She goes with her husband becomes Palestinian, you  know, going to care for the people of his nation. She was she got a PhD at Harvard. She's written  books about the Holy Land. And with the the the.

uh sales of those books, little by little, she  visited parishes in America and she raised money. so that they could build 30 homes for for Orthodox  people. So, uh those homes were cars of the people. in those homes were burned the other day. And  there's graffiti again on the wall and it says. it names another village and it says, "You're  going to regret this." and and the rest I I. talked to two Israeli people who are from Israel  and they couldn't even decipher the the top part.

So I you know because it's very interesting a lot  of the settlers are actually people from Brooklyn, New York. Yeah. They have dual citizenship and and  they go back and forth between is freely they can. go to Bengurian airport go through Tel Aviv to  come to the settlements in the West Bank. But. those people in Taiba who are actually American  citizens as well, they can't go through Bengurian. airport. How is it that an American citizen can't  go through Bengurian airport? Because he's also. a Palestinian. Are you sure? I'm absolutely sure.  Yes, they have to go through Jordan and right now.

um and through a border that is controlled on one  side by Israel. And right now it's so difficult. They only open for I've I've been told from  8 to to 1 or two and you've got thousands. of people trying to come through, right? So  you could be there for hours and you may not. get through that day. People make plans to, you  know, the only way Palestinians can do anything. to be free is to go to another country. I mean,  even for a vacation or something, you don't feel.

free in your own country. I used to feel that  when I was living there in the summertimes, that's why I would travel to different  countries because within Israel and Palestine, you feel like you're in prison. You can't feel  like a person. And so if you have the opportunity. to go away to breathe a little bit, you do that.  Since you are an American and you obviously know. people in positions of authority, when you come  back to the US and tell these stories at dinner, what do people say? At dinner, they they show  concern when you tell the story. But again,

it seem maybe it seems too distant for people or I  have also I you know what since I uh I I've talked. to people in our churches and I'm trying really  now to focus on organizing because people say how. can we help now they're really seeing this the  the gross things that are going on? How where. do we send money? What do we do? Yes, people need  money but what we really need is political change. So I'm sort of bordering on three different  congressional districts and we've tried to set up. appointments with our congressmen. They've thrown  us off. I'm talking about middle-aged women trying.

to go see their congressman. They don't want when  you tell them what you want to talk about, they. don't want to make an appointment for you to able  to educate them. I did. And then I wrote a letter. to my congressman, Nicholas Langworthy. He writes  back an Israeli bullet point, an Apac bullet point. uh reply ba basically saying, you know, Hamas is  the problem and and you know, it's okay to send. weapons over there. So it but little by little we  have to go and keep educate if if enough people.

keep knocking on the doors and saying we don't  like what we're doing. Why are we sending billions. of dollars to Israel and then we're cutting  Medicaid, we're cutting people don't have jobs. in his district. In fact, I I was listening in  on he did a phone uh town meeting or whatever and. most of the people were concerned because they  they didn't have enough money for groceries or. you know what what was going to be done with their  healthcare in the coming months and years and then. no questions about for he didn't take my question  on the thing I wanted to ask about Israel and why.

we were sending more more offensive weapons. We're  not talking about don't play this game. Nothing. wrong with the Iron Dome and protecting yourself.  You're in a tough neighborhood. I'm talking about. assault rifles, which was just passed again to  give assault rifles that Ben that Ben gave then. just gives into the hands of settlers who then  kill the the Palestinians in the West Bank and. we're financing that. So people, have you not  had enough? You really want this done in your.

name? But the politicians make it hard, too.  They don't want to hear it. And you have, and I. understand when I lived there in the early 2000s,  Congressman uh Deral Lisa and Carolyn Maloney was. still in office at the time. They were there on an  Israeli junket. I think it was a 60th anniversary. of something, but they they were willing to come  and see me, but they wouldn't come to Bethany cuz. that was over the wall or the wall was being built  then. That was in the West Bank. So we met on the. Mount of Olives and they actually they came with  me and they saw the wall was being constructed.

then and they saw how people were passing through  the rocks and they had not good things to say. about Israel. But do you think their vote would  have changed? No, not going to happen. Not going. to happen. I once again threw you off track when  you were explaining um visiting with your parents. Right. So we come into we're heading into Taiba  and the the soldiers bec the reason the soldiers. are there because just outside of Taiba on one  side you have the settlement of Rammon swimming.

pools and beautiful homes and uh the other  direction the huge settlement of Ofra. So these. are in the West Bank in areas that's supposed  to be Palestinian and so the soldiers there. are supposedly protecting them but they block the  entrance to Taiba or you know check who's going in. and out and you're going so we drove we they first  weren't going to let us go. They said no no no you. can't come through this way. You got to go around  Ofra go like 20 miles and come back another road. to get into Da. I said no no no they're only in  the country for a couple weeks. They're only here. for a few hours. We're going in this way. Finally,  they let us in. And then when we go and we said,

"I'm only going to be a couple hours. We're  visiting families there and we'll come back out. When we come back out, the same game. The soldiers  just standing there." They play this game where. um to show that they're in control. There was  no other cars behind us. They just said, "No, they wouldn't let us pass. They're just going  to wait for a while." Um and finally, my father, temperamental Greek, got got out of the car and  went up to the soldier and said, "What is this?

I'm an American citizen. I'm a we just want to go  back to Jerusalem. And they basically just laughed. in his face. That's g eventually we were able  to move. But the scorn they have for Americans. is really something else. For that's not the only  incident where I've seen something like that where. they mock America. Mock America. America pays  for the whole thing. Well, thank you very much. But there's no love for America. Well, I look I  have seen sadly to say during that time American.

soldiers veterans that would be at the checkpoints  and they'd be sort of joking with the soldiers. So there there was probably some camaraderie with  certain pe who were probably Christian Zionists or. of that mentality. So they were pro-Israel. If you  have that view, then it's okay. But in general, no, they don't have any uh love for Americans.  Really? Yeah. Well, that was my perception. No, it doesn't. I think most Americans would  be surprised to to learn that. Yeah, it's a. it's about time that it changes. It's Why do you  think they're scorned for Americans in a country.

supported by Israel? Supported by America. I think  I think that's just a part of the arrogance of. the country. I they they think they're due for  everything. There's not much gratitude. We're. past that time, you know. You know, because  you're bringing up something now when I think. about it. the time period when Joe Biden was a  young politician and there was that warm feeling. towards Israel and it was sort of the underdog  but we're way beyond that time now you know so.

that's where the sense of before but there might  have been a sense we're thankful to America but. over the years as this whole progression of the of  the greater land of Israel and and the dominance. of another people and having the power to do it  there's no more of that gratitude have you been. attacked for saying things like this uh in which  in the United States? Well, like that little. slander then. I mean, I'm sure I Well, we'll see  what happens after this. I'm sure I actually come.

to think of it, you know, I we talked before about  in the early 2000s, my father was a a priest at. a a large church in New York City and he he there  was a gathering of few hundred people and I talked. about the situation in Palestine and everybody  was receptive. But then there was a um a newspaper. that I believe was controlled by John Katsumatis  who's a big fellow in New York City. They reported. what I said, but they also watered it down a lot.  There's like this idea we don't want to go too.

far in saying anything negative about Israel.  And that was back then. That's a 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Yeah. So it's not being attacked  necessarily, but it's not letting you be truthful. about things. Do you think Christians in other  Arab countries are treated better than Christians. in Israel and Palestine? Well, I can only go from  the the my times of being there. In in Lebanon, too, at the time I was there, there were churches  and it was they were part of the society. So,

there was nothing wrong with being a Christian.  And in Syria when I would now now, who knows. what's going to happen, but certainly the time  when I was there. Um, well, Israel controls those. countries now. Well, they're they're trying to  make inroads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what what do. they do first? They bombed after Assad went down.  They they get rid of all the military. So, what is. the point of uh Abu Jalani being there now, the  ISIS head without who is he who is he serving? Is he serving the Syrian people or the Israeli  people? What's the answer? Right now, it looks.

like he's serving Israel. What's so surprising  is that you think of or in the United States, people think of Israel as like this foothold of  Western civilization in the Middle East. And so. you would imagine the Christians would do a lot  better under Israeli control than they would under. Assad's control. But no, that's not the case at  all. It's definitely not the case at all. That's.

I'd like to talk a little bit more about the  Palestinians themselves. I would love for. resistance because I I think one of the reason I  was grateful to be able to come on is to really. give a picture of the of them and the people as  they are and what one thing that's really struck. me I know Muslims I know bedins I know all during  this time where they've really been suffering what. I really get sense from them is their real belief  in God and that their life is in God's hands and. there's such a humility and and an obedience to  their creator and an understanding that this life.

is not the only one. And there's a real beauty to  that that I think so much of the world is missing. And I and I think even in sort of there's a deeper  sense to all that's even going on right now, right? We're in the heart of Jerusalem, in the  heart of where Christ came. There was a reason. for that. And now we have a situation where the  people who were the closest to God are being. destroyed. the one in a simple sense. You know,  I live next to the Mount of Olives and when you.

go down the Mount of Olives, it's where they  they said, "Hosana in the highest, here comes. Christ." And often I've gone to parish churches  in Palestine and the whole community is they know. all the service and they're singing it themselves.  And it reminds me as as those people that were on. the Mount of Olives greeting the creator, greeting  the Messiah who is coming for their salvation and. and honoring him. And that's what they're doing  to this day. And and what we're doing instead is.

destroying that. And and what does that mean for  the world when we let that go? The last time I. was there, I I went through Aman, not through Tel  Aviv. So I had to go through the border and then I. spent a night and in the early morning I was being  driven to the airport from Madaba where there's. a mosaic from the sixth century that shows you  the places in the Holy Land, the map in Madaba. And when this Amadaba is not a very big city and  as I'm going out of it, you very quickly before. you get to the airport come to lands that are  still being grazed by shepherds. And I started.

to weep because to me that's so emblematic of what  the Lord really wanted us to be like in touch with. the land recognizing that our life depends on what  we grow and what we produce and what we do. And. those kind of people are the ones who I hear from  now who say they're suffering. They're they're. literally gonna be killed, but they have much so  much more courage and faith than you find in in.

so much of America and in the West, which we've  lost. And and it's to me it's sort of like this. whole war is in a way we're killing the the Christ  message. And that message you can whatever your. theology is is one of compassion and tolerance and  love and the world is is becoming smaller in that. way. And I think people sense that right the how  we how we act to each other and to our neighbor.

There's so and and the very fact that people  politicians and people can listen to doctors. listen to what's going on and still somehow have  a blank face and think it's okay. How did we come. to such a point of darkness? Well, I mean, it does  seem like part of the broader spiritual war. Yes, absolutely. I think so. What happens to the  two million people who live in Gaza? Well, I can't say that I'm a Trump fan, but I, you know,  he's a Wheeler dealer. He wants to get that Nobel.

Peace Prize. He's got people with a lot of money  in Saudi Arabia and Qatar that have his ear. We. don't have to build a Riviera. build it for the  Palestinians. They go and rebuild the area and. let it be and and reconstruct for a Palestinian  nation. Why is that such an outrageous idea? Why. why does Israel think that the people of Palestine  have to be their enemy? They have they say go to.

Jordan, go to Egypt. What's the difference another  20 kilometers in? That's really what we're talking. about. The difference between Aman and Tel Aviv  is 20 miles at the most to drive between the two. So what are the difference between the people  that live in Palestine that live in Jericho. and Bethlehem and someone who lives in Aman? And  what's the difference between someone who lives. in Gaza? So give them a defined border and and  have the people of other countries, the Arabs too, should support the rebuilding of Gaza and and  have Israel remove their military from there and.

give and let Gaza have their freedom to be able  to devel those pe are some of the most educated. people in Gaza. I mean how many of us have read  the I hope the stories of Mosav Abu Toha or uh. Rafat who was who was killed the poet beautiful  graceful people bisan now who's on every day on uh. maybe not everybody sees her not in the mainstream  media but these are beautiful young Palestinians. who are still trying to live and have joy and  see something beautiful in the midst of all their.

suffering. So there's no reason that the money  can be there. And if Trump he's not a politician, he's a he's a businessman. Work it out. I mean,  it's a I don't know that that's going to happen, but our politicians certainly haven't done it.  What's the current plan for those people? It's. pro probably not to raise a trillion dollars and  rebuild them a model but I mean so what is a plan? Are we in such a world where we can look on live  TV that too many million people are just slowly.

going to die now or are you going to transfer  them? And why should they be transferred? Why. should why should they have to leave their land  that they've been in for centuries? And in Gaza, you know, Gaza is uh as as much as the West Bank,  Gaza, the St. Pfurious church from the 3rd century. was bombed. We also have in the Orthodox how how  did the how did a Christian church get bombed. because it's part of Palest Palestinians and all  there I I've been there before and basically that.

it's the the Holy Family Church and the Baptist  church they're all pretty much in the same area. so you can't make a mistake and Christians through  So you don't think that was an accident? No. No, nothing's an accident. I mean, occasionally a  shell might go off, but no. And certainly the last. time with the one where they pointed at the cross.  You don't miss that. Well, at the Holy Family. Church, the cross didn't topple, but literally  inches from it. And I have, you know, in in Nablas.

at Jacob's Well, there's a large church now, and  there's crosses on the front face in circles. And. the monk always points out to us when I go there,  there's a tank shell that was pointed that was. aimed at that cross. You can still see it from an  earlier confrontation in Naples. So don't tell me. these soldiers are make mistakes. You could the  the the church in Gaza has, you know, it's pointed. and the cross is there in the middle of it by  itself. So it's hard to believe that it wasn't.

a person. So what would you say? What would you  say to Ted Cruz, the self-proclaimed Christian, supporting tank shells fired at crosses? Like  what is that? Well, I would say, you know, again, it's to disabuse of the notion. It's those  same to talking points that the congressman. gave. Well, but Hamas is the problem and they're  terrorists. Well, Hamas is not the problem. So, so don't use that as an excuse anymore. And you we  have to defend Christian values, American values,

and and dignity, freedom for people. Isn't that  what we're all about? Having their rights. What. um what happens on the temple mount? What is the  temple mount? Can you explain what that is? Well, the temple mount is the area uh where the temple  existed at the time of Christ in Jerusalem. In. Jerusalem, right? Directly like I lived in the  convent of St. Mary Magdalene on the Mount of.

Olives. Directly in front of me is the Dome of  the Rock and there's the old walls the old the. w the walls of the old city and within that is the  area where the temple was had been existed. Right. There was also a Byzantine church at one point in  the fifth century and that because where the Dome. of the Rock is is where Abraham sacrificed or  was going to sacrifice his son Isaac. Yeah. So. it's a holy to all monothesis traditions. Yes.  And so on the left side, if you're looking from. the convent where I was at is the wailing wall.  That's a portion of the temple that still exists,

a wall. And so some just like the Christian  Zionist, the Jews want the temple rebuilt. So. I know Christians who have been there who who will  take a sign and go take the crescent off the dome. and say we'll put a cross on there. It's natural  to all of them to do. So there is this movement to. rebuild the temple. Uh all the time I was there  I heard about that but um and there were small. movement of it of but there's a mosque where the  temple was. Yeah. Now it's Alaska mosque. It's the.

third holiest site for Muslims in the world. And  the a lot of confrontations you have is because. um Israel Israel will control getting in and out  being able to go there. So or they'll say only. men over 50 can go to the the mosque today and  there there's a lot of confrontations there and. people have been killed. So it is a mosque. Yeah.  There's a functioning Alaska mosque is there. Uh. but so you can't build the temple with the mosque  there. No. And they say that they have the plans.

for rebuilding the temple and everything and for  and people like uh Ben Gir the the minister who's. a religious zealot have gone on the temple mount  and it's a provocation. the the area is controlled. by uh religiously by Jordan, but there's a a  an organization that's responsible for the that. area. Okay. So, you hear people say we're going  to rebuild the temple, the third temple, but. there's a mosque there. So, what's the plan for  the mosque? Well, I guess it would be to blow it.

up. What would And then you just said that's the  third holiest site in Well, of Islam, of course, this would be a dark day for anybody. So then what  what would happen if you blew up the third holiest. site in Well, you could probably answer that  better than me. It certainly would ignite a great. conflict in the world. I just want to say this  out loud because people sort of blindly talk about. it. Oh, what we're really coming to and I think  that's the that's the problem with the Christian. Zionists is is that what is your end game here?  They their belief tells them that's okay. We want.

to have this third world war because we're going  to be taken away and we'll be okay and we'll come. back later after all the fighting's done. That's  sort of basically what their theology tells them. And in the meantime, all the Jews are supposed to  convert to their brand of Christianity or die in. the confliguration. It's and so I'm asking you  this because you're a nun, right? That's not a. Christian That's not a That's not a Christian  belief. No. Or preceptance. Yeah. Huh. Where?

Any idea where that came from? That idea, the  rapture. Yeah. Well, like I said, it originally. the idea of having the thousand-year kingdom is  a is a heresy that was in the early church. But. the real push of all that becomes from the 1830s.  James Darby Scullfield or John Darby Scullfield. It's sort of so it's a new theology that has no  basis in the foundations of Christianity. It's has. nothing to do with it. How do you think this story  ends? It depends on us. And that's why, you know,

maybe I I I part of me wants to have that message  of that we have to do something politically. The. Christians have to wake up and tell their they're  because it's all in the hands of the United. States. It doesn't matter what any other country  in the world does. If US protects Israel, this. will continue and we will get to that conclusion  of the denoma which will lead to a third world. war or something of that sort for sure. So but  also in a spiritual sense then we also have to.

recognize what do we want to be as people. Do we  want to follow the way of Christ or do we want. to follow the way of a Christ who leads us to a  better world? We live in this world as best we can. in order to prepare for the world to come. Not we  don't look Christ came and said my kingdom is not. of this world. So if you're truly a believing  Christian, you want to do all the things that.

will put you in good graces with God when when  it comes to judgment day, right? And that doesn't. mean rebuilding the temple. It means living like  a Christian and and trying to build a society that. lives by Christian principles and your government  acting as one that acts by Christian principles. And so that doesn't mean slaughtering other  people and leading to their to their cleansing. I really appreciate you taking this time. I think  that there's a I appreciate you. I I I hope it.

does a little bit to open people's eyes. And I  I just want to end with one thing. Of course. I. think the only way you know there was the writer  Tanihi Coat who may have differences opinion on. other things, but what really opened his eyes,  he went with a writer's group to the West Bank. and went and saw how the Palestinians were living  and what the reality of the occupation was. And. that got him to understand we have to make some  changes and there have been changes in the black. church communities definitely reaching out. I  would like one I think that we have to have many.

more people come and see and not go on an Apac  junket but really go and as Christians tell your. communities we want to go and we want to go and  visit our Palestinian Christian communities and. this might be a little you could decide what  you want to do with it. My dream thing would. be to have a trip. Perhaps have you come on the  trip. Perhaps have uh Mel Gibson, Cat Stevens. It's a funny kind of thing, but he's a guy who was  born in the Greek church and is now a Muslim and.

Zoron and Bradlander and try to give the idea and  Marjorie Taylor Green. The the point is we have to. expose that dinner. All right. Not just a dinner.  You're going to come visit with my friends in uh. in the Ninj Janine, okay? And in Bethlehem. And  then we're going you're going to go tell the world. what's going on there cuz you're all much better  communicators than I am. And the world really has. Aren't we horrified by the idea? Aren't you as  a media person horrified? Why can't reporters go.

into Gaza? Why can't And reporters are not allowed  in large portions of the West Bank now? They call. them military zones. What kind of press freedom  is that? and what are they trying to hide? So, the only way that's going to break that is by  enough of us saying enough influencers going over. there and saying,"I want to see what's going on  and then report back." And I thank you for giving. me at least this little opportunity. Um, hope  it moves things in the right direction. Thank.

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