Exposing Zohran Mamdani’s Assault on Gen Z, FBI Corruption, and All the Culprits Undermining America

So, you were attorney general of the state of  Missouri for four years and you've been in the. Senate for three. Yeah, almost three. Almost  three. What job was more powerful? Um, well, I think the the Senate is sort of the the apex  of um how you can affect a number of things, but the Senate in many ways is kind of broken  the way it's currently constituted and it's it's. the you know proclaimed to be the world's most  deliberative body, but it's a lot of its kabuki. theater. Yes. honestly. But um but I think in the  time in which I served as attorney general, when.

you had a Democrat president, uh you could affect  a lot of things by challenging the the extremism. we saw from the B administration in court and win.  And you didn't need to ask anybody's permission. for that. You could just make that decision. You  didn't need 50 other people to vote for it. So, um, so I think for me at that time it was just it  was a critical moment in our country's history and. I just happened to be in that position at that  time. And you got to remember too, I think if. you take a step back, President Trump was out  of office. Um, and so this responsibility sort.

of fell to a relatively unknown group of people  to kind of hold the line, which is why, you know, the the last line of defense and how to beat the  left in court is the title of the book because I. felt like we were really holding the line for  the country until reinforcements could come. and thankfully they came with President Trump.  [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music].

It's just interesting and you were principled  and very aggressive which are the two I think. qualities necessary to succeed uh in really in  any job. But the reason I asked the question is. because serving in the Senate is, you know, it's  the highest level for a legislator. You travel. to any country in the world. You go through the,  you know, diplomatic airport terminal. You get a.

motorcade. I mean, it's a big deal to be a US  senator. But it does seem like the center of. gravity has shifted from the legislative branch to  the courts. I mean, it does seem like courts have. more power than voters. I'm not uh Will you flush  that out a little bit since you've had both jobs? Yeah. I think um it is a and one of the reasons  why I wanted to to write the book was to to number. one um lay out the landscape cuz in that job you  saw I saw the threats that were coming from all.

directions from the highest levels of government  and the censorship enterprise that was created. by Biden uh and big tech companies to the local  superintendent that somehow got bought into this. training that you divide every classroom  by race through critical race theory. So, you got to see that entirety of the landscape.  Yes. And take action in detail. In detail and. um and take action. And that is what I loved about  the job is if you were committed to taking action,

you can make a difference. And that was happening  in the courts. So, so to answer your question, I think conservatives for a long time have viewed  the courts um as sort of the u um where the left. wins um where they cement their policies cuz  judges sort of make it up as they go along. I do. think there's an opportunity now, especially after  Trump's first term when he appointed 200 plus. federal judges and now in the second term where  you're going to have more members of the judiciary.

that view the law as it is, not how they want  it to be. But that also requires people to step. up and push back. And you know, you just think of  the wins that we were able to have like preventing. 100 million people being forced to be vaccinated.  Um because OSHA, which was a, you know, an agency. created to make sure forklifts beep when they back  up, somehow created this rule that 100 million. people had to be vaccinated to keep their jobs.  You just think of the guy that's like swinging the.

hammer, it just wants to feed his family. He had  to do that to keep his job. It's totally insane. So, we went to the Supreme Court on that. We won.  Um, of course, the student loan debt forgiveness. case. Missouri had a little known loan servicing  agency called Mohila that gave us standing to sue. Our argument was, look, Moil is this loan  servicing agency. If you eliminate all this. student loan debt, which he wasn't allowed to do  by law, that might go out of business. Therefore, we had standing to bring suit to challenge Biden's  action. And we won. The Supreme Court said, "Yeah,

Joe Biden and the Secretary of Education didn't  have any authority to wipe away a half a trillion. dollars worth of debt." So, we took that to the  Supreme Court. We won. we had some wins on the. border wall to save that off as long as we could  even though ultimately this mass migration plan. that that Joe Biden had came through. But I think  probably um the biggest example uh was you know. we intuitively knew that something was happening  inside the B administration to suppress speech and. we filed that lawsuit in May of 2022 and we sought  discovery first before we sought a preliminary.

injunction. That was an important like strategic  decision and the judge granted it and because of. that we saw all of the emails, we saw all of the  text messages, this vast censorship enterprise. that had been created was exposed and this was  before Elon Musk buys Twitter. It's before you. had the congressional hearings and I think um  you know being able to to um draw attention. to that and flesh out the truth through our court  system was a really important thing to do. So yes,

I think this is a front that we have to fight in.  And that's what this is. This is sort of like, hey, we took on when when school districts were  forcing 5-year-olds to wear masks all day long, we sued 65 school districts in the state of  Missouri and we won. When when the biggest. cities in St. in in Missouri were forcing people  to wear masks all day long and close businesses, we sued and we won. When we took on ESG, we  launched an investigation against some of the.

biggest banks in the world who controlled nearly  half of the assets in this country. We opened. up an investigation because we were saying that  their their uh their actions violated antitrust. laws. They backed away. So really the story I  think is there requires a lot of courage, right, to go do this stuff. But if you do it, you find  out that when you're in the arena, what people. are really looking for is authentic leadership,  right? they can people can spot a phony and if. you really believe this stuff and you're fighting  for the people the kid who's wearing the have to.

wear the mask or the deaf student who couldn't  learn we would get you know reports of these. things that were happening in school districts  that you can fight for those people and as. attorney general I was able to go do that and  we were able to score some big wins and also it. lays out I think a playbook for the future because  this isn't the last of it you already see the uh. you know the left-wing lawfare machine coming out  to try to uh President Trump's agenda, which is. inherently disruptive of the status quo, which is  a good thing. So, they want the status quo to come.

back. We want things to change, and you're going  to need people who are aggressive to defend those. things, too. It's also a really sad story. I want  to because it none of this should have to happen. I want to ask you about the details, particularly  of the censorship regime, in a moment, but first, it just it seems like an attorney general in  an ideal society would be fighting crime. Yeah, not trying to push back on social policy changes  made in the courts. Like that's the legislative.

branch's job because it's the most democratic  form of government obviously. So it reflects. most precisely what the people want. How do we  get to a place where every big social change. from abortion to gay marriage to censorship to co  all of this stuff is determined in the courts and. where the hell is Congress? Right? Well, Congress  has abdicated its responsibility to a lot of these. administrative agencies over the decades, right?  And so, honestly, some of the court actions that. you take on, like, you know, this is a little  bit in the weeds, but the Chevron difference.

that existed where essentially the court said,  "Yeah, we're going to defer to these agencies. because they're the so-called experts." Well,  that got blown up and that's a good thing. Now, in Congress, Congress actually now has to write  laws that are more prescriptive. We should we. should do that. But Congress has abdicated  its responsibility for a couple of reasons, but most notably, I think, because they're  able to say, many congressmen are able to say, "I voted for this greatest bill in the world,  but I can't believe what the EPA just did." Well, that's not good enough anymore, I don't think.  Right. You've got to rein in the authority of. these agencies that have gone completely rogue.  And it kind of starts with Woodro Wilson in this.

progressive era. It's it's it's hypercharged by  FDR. Um, and then this monstrosity, by the way, which has existed and grown in Republican and  Democrat administrations over the years. One of. the things I think that's most most exciting about  what President Trump is doing is he put together. um this group of disruptors to disrupt that. And  so, but look at the hue and cry that comes out in. DC when you're trying to like pair down the size  of government. People lose their minds. And why.

again the courts are going to be really important  here because President Trump and the exe whoever. the executive is certainly has article 2 core  powers to control programming and personnel, right? Um and the Democrats don't want him to go  do that. Now, the good news is he's by and large. won these cases. There might be a district court  case here or there, but that ultimately makes as. it makes its way to the appellet courts, the  Supreme Court. President Trump is winning on. this front. So again, I think it's a testament to  the idea we have to be willing to fight whether.

it's in the legislative branch, in the executive  branch, or in the article 3 branch for the things. that we hold dear in this country because they're  constantly under assault by the left. That's for. sure. It's pretty obvious now that this country is  getting weaker than ever, meaning the population. is unhealthier. That's what MA is about. Trying to  counteract this long-term trend that's culminated. in a disaster. Americans are so unhealthy, we  can't staff the military. And it's really really. sad. Why is this happening? Maybe because sick  people are easier to control. Whatever the reason,

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a political body which maybe has always been true  but it does seem a little scary when everyone. thinks that because I mean it used to be if  there's Supreme Court you know decision you have. to abide by it whether you like it or not. Yeah.  But if people think it's all just partisan, then. maybe they stop obeying. Yeah. But I think that's  again why um and I I referenced this in the book. when I was sort of coming of age when I went to  law school. People were still talking about this. thing called the living constitution, which is a  fiction, right? It it should be. Um and Scalia was.

the first one who wrote with this sort of dramatic  pros about originalism. And I think that's our. best hope moving forward is the constitution means  exactly what it says. nothing more, nothing less, right? It it it shouldn't be. The Supreme  Court shouldn't be this super legislator, which is what the left has traditionally wanted.  You take Row versus Wade for example, right? They. sort of invented this right out of whole cloth  and took that decision away from the people as. this is supposed to be decided in the states by  legislators and now we're kind of back to that.

So my hope is that as you have a more conservative  court, it's not about our ideology winning because. somebody's wearing a red jersey or a blue jersey.  It's that Congress passes laws and those laws are. interpreted as they are written, not making stuff  up as you go along. And I think that's what we. need to get to is a return to that. That's the  only way you're going to have credibility. But. the Democrats, you know, when Chuck Schumer is  saying you're going to reap a whirlwind and you. have these hearings about, you know, trying to on  the Supreme Court, um, we know, especially they.

target Clarence Thomas, they really despise him  for a variety of reasons. Um, but he is, you know, now I think like the sixth longest serving Supreme  Court justice of all time. But, but they want to. undermine the courts because ultimately they want  to pack the court. And that's if they ever really. I mean, if you play this out, Tucker, if they  ever had what we have right now, which is a. Republican or a Democrat House, Democrat Senate,  Democrat president, they would pack the Supreme. Court. They would make DC a state, maybe Puerto  Rico. They would federalize our elections. Um,

they would have amnesty. I mean they are they are  in this now for a total power grab and um I just. want to make sure there's judges that view again  view the law as it's written out how they want it. to be. That's all you can ask for. You see what  has happened in Brazil. Bolster lost a couple of. years ago to a socialist Lula convicted felon and  everyone imagined that Lula would you know move. the country hard left which I think he'd like to  do but it's really been a Supreme Court justice.

who has made all the major decisions in Brazil  ever since. I mean basically that country is run. by a single Supreme Court justice in a way that's  you know it's a dictatorship. Yeah. How how does. that not happen here? Well, I think it's we're we  were perilously close to that happening here with. through lawfare, right? You you just think of what  and we can get into it on the sort of the Russia. hoax stuff, but what that did, it gave all the the  folks on the left a sort of a a reason or a cause.

to undermine not just the president of the United  States, but to spy on a on a candidate like they. did. I think justice should be coming for the  people that are involved. um Brennan Clapper, Comey, there should be indictments that come  because what they did to this country, not just. for those four years, but it extended when Trump  was of course out of office and they tried to put. him in jail for the rest of his life, bankrupt his  entire family. Um the Hunter Biden laptop part of.

the FBI was very well aware. I mean, we took the  deposition in Missouri versus Biden of Elvis Chan. who admitted that they had months and months of  monthly meetings pre-bunking that story, telling. them there was a Russian hack and leak operation.  Yel Roth, who was the integrity person at Twitter, said they specifically mentioned the Hunter Biden  um laptop. The FBI had the laptop in November. of 2019. They had it all along, but they were  claiming it was a Russian hack and leak operation. So, how do you get there? Well, you have a system  that's captured by people who were obsessed with.

taking President Trump down, and then uh they  never want him to get back in office, and they. can't believe it. I think what you're seeing right  now, this sort of um weird phase the Democrats are. in, they can't believe he actually pulled it  off. They can't believe that he's back. They. literally thought he had him buried, right? Yeah.  We are in this weird phase where the Democrat the. Democratic party really doesn't seem like a factor  in the national conversation in American politics. All the real fights are between, you know, are  introuan fights, Republican versus Republican.

But that's got to be just a just a period, right,  that we're in. Yeah. That's why I think um it it. it would seem to your point it almost I think the  tendency would to believe that all of this and now. that we're on the other side of the fever dream  that this was all inevitable right that that what. we're seeing all the things that are taking place  the dismantling of some of these things you know. going after USA ID um having a justice department  that's not going after Catholics because they're.

traditional Catholics or parents because they  show up to schoolboard meetings I think it's. an important reminder, which is, you know, a big  part of the book, too, is just how close we were. to losing it all. I I I I to me um people say  power um corrupts. I think power reveals more. than anything else. You see the true nature of  people when they have power, how they handle it. And I think particularly during co people who  never should have had that kind of power had it. and they wield it in ways that people could have  never imagined in this country. Um and then you.

look at the lawfare, you look at what they were  willing to do uh to disscent, to silence disscent. This is all happening not some other place but  here. And we have to be vigilant in standing up. against that cuz you know these things we like to  think that majorities are forever. They're not. Um it's forever. And so in many ways it's sort of  a playbook of how how you push back um what what. strategies you employ to go do that. And you have  to be aggressive and you have to I think that my.

biggest takeaway from my time as attorney general  is um you have to be willing to be in that arena, take the criticism and you know fight for the  things that you believe in. And I think that is. um you know that I ask judges now I'm on the  judiciary committee. When judges come forward. I ask less about I mean I want to know what their  judicial philosophy is. That's very important. But. to me, I think the next phase, the next line of  questioning that's most important moving forward. is, do you have the courage? When people are  outside your home, when you're being threatened,

when people at the cocktail parties in Washington  may not want you to do something, will you rule. the the appropriate way? Um, that's what we  need more of. Why would that be a concern? Well, I think we've seen seen that happen the other  way, right? We have. And I I don't think it's. from a lack of decency. you know, like Amy Coney  Barrett is an indecent person or like some closet. lefty or sandwich on Roberts. They're just afraid  like everybody and they want, you know, they don't. want to be snarled at when they go to the Chvy  Chase Club for cocktails or whatever. I mean,

they're just people. So, how do you identify the  brave ones? Clarence Thomas is brave. Brave. Yeah. Well, he is brave. Yeah. I think um obviously some  maybe some positions that they took. I mean I'll. I'll just you know um some of the judges that in  some of these cases um that are that are cited. in the book um you know um basic in the Missouri  versus Biden case when we got favorable rulings. not only the district court the appellet court I  mean really went on a limb and said this is the.

most egregious violation of the first amendment  we've seen in American history. I mean you look. at the sprawling expanse of the agencies that were  captured by this. Okay. Would you mind telling. that story just from beginning to end cuz I think  even people who are interested in the topic may. not fully appreciate what happened. So the Biden  administration comes in and on the third day the. third day in office start to begin to hammer this  home. Now there had been um semblances of this. that predate the Biden administration in that the  FBI for example we took the deposition of Elvis.

Chan who he was the FBI guy in Northern California  that's that's working with the big tech companies. Okay, even in the Trump administration, they were  the FBI was working with Democrat staffers to. connect with big tech companies to look for  things to censor under the guise of Russian. disinformation. Right? This was this was the  thing. Again, it's it's kind of a legacy of. what that hoax really meant for the country. That  foundation was laid down for a lot of folks in the.

administrative state or the deep state, whatever  you want to call it, as a way to undermine an. agenda under the guise of this is misinformation  or disinformation. So when Biden comes into. office, all these agencies that are galvanized,  you're mentioned, actually very ironically, um Tucker Carlson was mentioned, Alex Baronson was  mentioned, RFK Jr. were mentioned in these emails. about people promoting vaccine hesitancy or these  sort of things that they wanted to stamp out. So, you couldn't have a debate, right? You couldn't  have a debate about things. They just wanted those.

voices silenced, deplatformed. And so, um,  how do you how do you do that since it is so. obviously unconstitutional? Every child knows  that. Well, the Well, that's correct. The the. government can't do it. Uh, and they shouldn't  be able to outsource it either, which is what. was happening. So they're out outsourcing their  censorship to some of the biggest companies in. the history of the world. And so we had some sense  of this. So here's a company we're always excited. to advertise because we actually use their  products every day. It's Merryweather Farms.

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uh goes and after he does his stent at Brookings  goes and is the general counsel for Twitter. So. one hand washes the other, they were more than  willing to work with the Biden administration to. censor points of view on that platform. Um so you  have people who were in this kind of ecosystem all. along that were uh it didn't take much convincing,  but the Biden administration knew that they needed.

to silence this sort of level of disscent. Um  it was you know it was 100 Biden laptop. It was. it was certainly um during COVID any kind of  questioning of election results or whatever. I mean all this stuff was on the table and what  they did was is they worked as we took the depos. you know this sort of plays out um but Jen Saki's  at the podium if you recall saying we're flagging. things that we find offensive for Facebook.  Joe Biden is threatening to take away section. 230 protections. What's section 230 protections?  Those are basically in the 1990s when the internet.

becomes a thing in the telecommunications act they  say that these are platforms that can't be sued. unlike publishers who can be sued. Publishers are  supposed to be more arbiters of what you can say. It's why CNN gets sued by by by President Trump  for false things. But like Twitter, Facebook, those are considered platforms. They're immune  from lawsuits. So Joe Biden starts threatening. section 230 protections. They start threatening  investigations. So if someone liels you on social.

media, you can sue the person, but you cannot  sue the company who did it. Whereas if someone. liels you in a newspaper or television channel,  you can sue the newspaper or television channel. That's right. And so section 230 protection is  a billion multi-billion dollar sort of subsidy. in some ways. Now I happen to think, look, if  that's if you're if you're actually having this. platform where people can express their point  of view, that's a great thing. Amen. But that's. not what was happening, right? through immense  pressure from the government, they were censoring. all sorts of things. All sorts how do they do  that? How does the president or his staff exert.

pressure on say Facebook or Google or or Twitter?  So they had direct lines of communication. They. had a secret portal where executives from these  social media companies could communicate directly. with high ranking White House officials. Rob  Farad, who's was the deputy communications. um guy in the Biden White House, was in  constant communication, berating these people. um telling him that's not good enough. You need  to do more. Let me assure you this is coming from. the highest levels of the administration. Those  sorts of things were constantly streaming at the.

uh at the social media companies. And then you  also had as we took the deposition in that case. of the of people from the CDC, they literally  the CDC were were just giving them lines that. they should censor. So the government is saying  censor these exact phrases, right? The the that. is exactly what they're giving this off to the  social media companies. If this is uttered, we want you to silence these people. You want to  deplatform these people, you want me to downgrade,

throttle these sort of posts. Um we had um the  deposition of Is that illegal? No, it's not legal. So if it's illegal, then that by definition means  it's a crime. And aren't crimes supposed to be. punished? Yes, they should be. Absolutely. Um but  we, you know, we sued the government um to show. censorship. A lot of social media companies have  been sued before in other cases um but those ended. up in the Northern District of California, never  to be seen again. What was unique about our case, the Missouri versus Biden case, we sued, you know,  White House officials. We named them, you know,

personally. We named um uh all these agencies  um and we got to take their depositions. SISA, which is an agency I know you're familiar with,  but maybe maybe in your audience probably of. all audiences would know, is the Cyber Security  Infrastructure um uh administration um security. uh administration. Their job purportedly was to  make sure that you know cyber you know our our.

infrastructure is you know resilient against  cyber attacks. They were very much involved. in something called the election integrity project  where they outsourced their censorship to Stanford. and the University of Washington to flag certain  posts that would then be given to um social media. companies to censor. Um the CDC was involved  with it. SISA was involved with it. The FBI. of course played a role with the pre-bunking of  the Hunter Biden laptop um which they knew was. actually real. They knew it was real. They had  it in their possession and then they pre-bunkked.

it and then when it came out they never actually  said when people were asking is this legitimate. they never actually said no we have it. So they  were very much a part of this um operation to. silence millions of American voices. And I think  for me the first amendment how many people have. been fired at the FBI for that? Um I don't know  the answer to that. Right around zero. Yeah. That. and this is the kind of accountability. What the  hell is that? Yeah. And and that's something that. um as we talked to, you know, in Cash Patel in his  confirmation hearings is certainly something that.

we talked about. He's very well aware. I think  having somebody like that who was on the other. side of it is a good thing, but we certainly need  to have more accountability. Um but these people. um it's just the scale of it was immense. Um,  and it really wasn't exposed until we filed. the lawsuit again. And then when Elon Musk buys  Twitter now X, they did the they did the Twitter. files and you saw even more of it, right? Like  how these people were in charge of this stuff. is insane. What's interesting from just like a  corporate governance point of view, like let's.

say I'm Mark Zuckerberg, seems pretty liberal, but  not maybe a liberal activist, but you spend four. years getting attacked for censorship when and you  never say actually, well, he did ultimately say, but he didn't say for years, I'm only doing this  because the Biden people are pushing me to do it. Like these companies were hurt by this, weren't  they? Yeah. I think the the Zuckerberg and the. um Facebook example is really interesting because  if you go back in time, if you get in the Delorean.

here, um a lot of people blamed Facebook for  President Trump's election. Remember this? Yes. And I think then in the next election cycle,  whether that was sort of internalized or not, Zuckerbucks materializes. Um so Zuckerberg is  funding a lot of the voter turnout uh privately. funding election operations which is kind of crazy  in 2020 and then gets sort of you know whether.

completely voluntary or steamrolled by threat of  investigation is part of then Facebook very much. a part of this censorship regime that existed and  now um Zuckerberg seems to be like redpilled I I. guess I don't know I don't know how much of  this is sincere sincere from these big tech. companies or it's just because President Trump  won. Time will tell, but it does feel like my. hope is that censorship is in retreat a little bit  now. And that this renaissance you're seeing that.

you talk about a lot on your show of the First  Amendment and free speech and how important that. is to the fabric of this country, it really  is the beating heart of our Constitution. The ability to say things that you find that you  might find incredibly offensive or even dangerous. your ability to defend someone else's right to  do that is really at the core of this American. experiment and we have to fight for that every you  know tooth and nail and so that lawsuit I mean you. just think of the time I was blessed to have a  good team John Sauer was my solicitor general.

in Missouri he's now the solicitor general of the  United States um four pe the first four district. um judges that have been nominated um in Missouri  all worked in my office there's another um guy who. worked in my office who's Now first four the first  four all worked in your office. Mhm. Yeah. So the. point I think um again why that time period was  instructive I think there's a forging that happens. in that time of crisis and when you come together  and you fight the good fight and you come out on.

the other side um there's a lot of important  work to do. Interestingly also I think RFK Jr. is a part of that. I mean he was one of the guys  originally censored. Now he's on the inside. Um, and then another guy who was actually a plaintiff  in Missouri versus Biden, uh, Dr. J. Badacharia, who's now the head of NIH. He's on the inside now.  So, again, I think the Democrats are are just they. can't believe this is actually what happened, but  the rebels are now kind of are are doing some good.

things, I think, on the inside. Dr. Badacharia  was one of the um authors of the great Bington. declaration. Yes. Which which essentially  said something so controversial like there is. a thing like natural immunity that can exist for  COVID. They tried to wreck their careers. Anthony. Fouchy himself tried to wreck their careers.  He was a well- accomplished Stanford, you know, uh professor and and and now he's running NIH.  I think there's a lot of um great symmetry to. all that. But it's just I mean I I believe in  forgiveness and mercy. I think they're essential.

to our humanity and we should pursue them. But  but also justice is important, too. And why not. treat all of these guys like Biden treated the J6  defendants? I don't understand like how is Fouchy. wandering around Washington still and working  at Georgetown and taking the biggest federal. pension. And I don't understand that. Yeah, the  Fouchy candles. Uh the the light has dimmed. The light has dimmed, but uh but he's still  around. And I will tell you that um that day,

it's one of the last things I did as attorney  general cuz I was just elected to the Senate and. we had this deposition of Anthony Fouchy scheduled  at the NIH headquarters and took the deposition of. Anthony Fouchy. The security in there was I mean  only in the White House has I seen security like. that. So Fouchy walks in, you know, shake hands.  Uh Jeff Landry, who was the attorney general. from Louisiana and now governor, had a copy of RFK  Junior's The Real Anthony Fouchy out on the table,

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sense of person. And he said, I don't remember  recall like 174 times, which says a lot for a. guy who proclaimed to be the science and knew  everything. Suddenly, he couldn't remember much. at all. But when he was confronted with some of  the actions early on in co again I think people. you know there's a there's a um the Czech writer  um Milan Codair writes that the struggle of man. against power is the struggle of memory versus um  forgetting right and so I think it's important to.

remember these things very early on um when it  was pretty obvious that this came from a Chinese. lab called the Wuhan Institute of Viology. Um,  right. Like what was the John Stewart thing when. he when he confronted uh Co Bear? I mean, it's  one of the maybe smart few smart things he's ever. said is like maybe it wasn't a bat who made  it with a penguin. Maybe it was this vyology. lab with a name on it in Wuhan. But but anyway,  um it was very obvious early on because of the.

um sort of secretive funding in in basically  to take a step back in 2014 the United States. basically said we're not going to participate  in gain function research anymore. It's very. dangerous. basically hypercharging viruses  that can sweep through the world just to find. um you know a vaccine that might that might stop  it seems like a bad idea. It sure does. Okay. So, we don't do that anymore in this country, but  through the Eco Health Alliance, it's funded and. it's being done in Wuhan, which did not have,  by the way, the safety protocols necessary to.

do this kind of work. Apparently not. Apparently  not. So, unleashed on the world. China lies about. it. the World Health Organization which is bought  and paid for by the communists in China. They lie. about it and then then all of a sudden you have  this global pandemic. Fouchi knows immediately. the problem here and um it could come back to him.  And so in the deposition he send we find out he. sends his deputy his chief deputy over to China to  see what they're doing with the with the Chinese. government. And there he's a big fan of these  lockdowns. Big fan. Comes back and reports back.

to Fouchi all these lockdowns are really working.  And so Fouchi then has this idea that that's what. he's going to create in the United States. It's  also interesting when he asked about the efficacy. of masks. You know, he was such a proponent that  everybody should wear a mask all day long, even. when you're outside. Um, a friend of his emails  him and says, this is like in April of 2020, hey, I'm getting on a flight. This CO thing is  a thing. Do I need to wear a mask? He's like, of course not. Masks are totally ineffective. You  don't need to wear a mask. So, like masks off,

right? Um but it's very telling. And so he and and  he meant to undermine anybody who disagreed with. him. Um participated in studies he pretend or he  authorized studies he pretended to have nothing. to do with that this was from a wet market and  not from a lab that he knew was a lie. And you. just think of the damage that was done. There's  a actually the first time that I ever met RFK Jr. I was at a conference in Utah and this is in  probably the summer of 2021 and he was familiar.

with some of the work that I've been doing to push  back on COVID tyranny and and and these excessive. regulations. So we had a conversation was talking  to a few of us and he reminded me of something I. this has been years since I even thought about  something called the Mgrim experiment which was. done in uh at Yale in the 1950s or the 1960s where  essentially people are brought into this room and. there's a guy in a in a lab coat and a clipboard  and tells them that there's somebody on the other. side of the wall when they get an answer wrong  we need you to flip the switch to you know give a.

little pain and the number of people that would do  that even when there were cries in the other room. and maybe even someone dying on the other side.  The willingness of some people to continue to do. that because of this authority figure in the white  coat. Exactly. It haunted me when he told me that. story and thought about it haunted me throughout  all of this and and kind of strengthened my. resolve to really push back cuz in those moments  you need people who are willing to to stand up and. fight back, right? Um but yeah, Fouchi was sort of  um he was heralded as like literally some sort of.

like saintlike figure. He had candles and I think  some of it was they wanted to make Trump people. were really obsessed with making Trump look bad.  The Democrats want to capitalize on this crisis, make him pay because you also forget Trump was  cruising going into that co I mean he was on. his way to winning I think decisively in the  in the in the fall of that year and they used. CO for everything it was. Fouchi was sort of  this who undermined President Trump used this. as alternative figure. This whole weird trust the  science thing happened. Then of course you have.

the summer of 2020, the summer of love, and you  see all these these sort of Marxist organizations. rally to create ultimate disruption. And then you  have the election. You have Mark Elias out there. trying to undermine uh you know all these election  integrity measures that have been put in place. even in blue states forever. I mean just think of  the level all this stuff happening at one time. It. was a crazy time. Like that whole period of time  was a crazy time. It's unbelievable. And so that's. what you sort of you document some of these things  that that in Missouri, for example, we beat back.

all three of Mark Elias's lawsuits um to weaken  our election integrity laws, but he was successful. other places. Um and so you just had the whole of  kind of the left coming for all the things that. we care about, borders, free speech, um freedom of  movement, you know, all these sorts of things that. you kind of take for granted were up for grabs.  When you talked to Fouchi, when you deposed him. for eight hours, you said? Yeah. Did you get the  feeling he was lying? Is he a good liar? He's. pretty. Yeah, I know. He's a good witness. I'll  give him that. He was a good I mean, this isn't.

his first rodeo. He's been in front of Congress.  Yeah. He's very smooth, but there's just too. many inconsistencies. Did he seem I mean, short of  like a sociopath, most people when confronted with. inconsistencies in their story get uncomfortable.  And a deposition is a place where you definitely. confront. The only time Yeah. The only time he  got really uncomfortable, I would say, is when. we continued to question him, his authority. He  didn't like that. Well, you said this now. Wait a. minute. Did you change your mind on this, doc? You  know, you get to that kind of line of questioning.

He didn't like people. He's not used to that.  He wasn't used to that at all. And by the way, I also think another telling moment of that  deposition was after the lunch break, we came back. and the court reporter sneezed and he looked at  her and asked her to put a mask on. Asked her if. she had an upper respiratory virus. She had COVID.  Will you put a mask on? She put a mask on. I mean, this is, by the way, November of 2022. this isn't  like March of 2020 and this is the guy that was. in charge of our nation's health like so um but I  think it co became a time where these weird like.

masks became like a it was the ultimate virtue  signal almost like having the stupid sign in this. house we believe out in your front lawn thing,  right? It became like a a way of distinguishing. people who were who were a problem. The othering  that happened in our society is really dangerous. And I think, you know, families and friendships  were destroyed over all this. That's the kind. of power this little guy wielded. And he's not  been held to account yet. What do you think the.

real story was? Like where did CO come from? We  assume it came from the lab. Do we think it was. intentional or unintentional in its release? When  do we think the Chinese knew it was circulating. among the population? And to what extent was  it a joint creation of the US and China? Well, uh um it's in the book actually the last line  of defense. I feel a little awkward doing that. I've never actually done it. But it's but it's  actually so the first chapters really kind of go.

back in time because I think to give context for  all the other crazy things we had to push back. against. It was really important to to go back to  that moment of when this thing first happened and. remember that there was like police tape around  kids playgrounds. They were bulldozing skate. parks with, you know, on beaches. Like the level  of insanity that took hold. It really is wild. And hopefully we never experience that again. But  I think it's important to document those excesses.

and what people were willing to do to hold on  and aggregate and exercise power. I mean, you. had people who literally would county executives  and mayors were telling people that you could. live your life today or not. Like it's insane uh  what was going on. But but really my first and. and actually on your show announced the lawsuit.  We sued China. We sued China in April of 2020 for. unleashing this pandemic on the world. And I think  and ultimately there's a judgment out there for. $24 billion that Missouri has that can go by the  way seize farmland now. So my my successor Andrew.

Bailey is going to have that opportunity and I  think he'll do it. Um but anyway, I think through. our research through public and then of course we  wanted to get to discovery which is why we filed. the lawsuit was that in November and December of  2019 [Music] patient zero enters the hospital. This is how I see it and patient zero likely came  from that lab. So that and and of course you know. you get to you know different strains down the  down the line it's le less lethal as any virus.

is but initially um that's where it happened  it happened in Wuhan and it came from the lab. a very closed society with communist dictators  who have concentration camps um wanted to deny. its existence for a while But um within you know  by December Dr. Lee I think is his name. Dr. Lee. um was on WeChat and said this is what's happening  like this is a virus that had came out of a lab.

and people are dying. Uh he had to recant that of  course and then mysteriously died a couple months. later but it was kind of this whistleblower and  the Chinese people actually celebrated this guy. for blowing the whistle. So anyway, so China  discovers that this is a thing. It's a very. um lethal and widespreading virus. So do you  believe the release was accidental? I don't I. don't believe it was on purpose. I mean, it could  be, but I don't think so. I think it it got out.

accidentally, but the cover up then is almost  worse than the crime, of course, right? Because. then and one of the problems with China is they  want to be considered one of these countries on. the world stage, but then doesn't do the things  that uh like a country would do to kind of notify. everybody. So what they do then is they close all  the flights, internal flights in China in and out. of Wuhan, but they don't stop the international  flights, interestingly. Um, so you can still fly. internationally in and out of Wuhan, but you can't  fly within China out of Wuhan. They immediately.

become not they they were the largest net exporter  of PPP PPE, personal protective equipment. They. they immediately become the biggest net importer  of PPE. So they know something's going down. And. this is in like Januaryish. And then finally  they kind of have to with the World Health. Organization sort of holding their hand let the  world know that this is out there. And then the. story of course is well this wasn't something  we created. This came from a bat mating with. a penguin or whatever the example was or some wet  market theory. And then what's really interesting.

is President Trump takes the action you would want  him to take. He closes flights coming in and out. of China. Right. I remember that. remember that  outbreak of racism. Yeah. Like all of a sudden. that was a xenophobic act. You know what I mean?  Like and then and Nancy Pelosi is on the streets. of San Francisco with in in in Chinatown saying  everything's fine here. Come here. This is fine.

Like it was this this Trump derangement syndrome  where even if it was the right thing to do, people. would take the opposite point of view, right? So  he shuts down the flights um and u uh because he. understands that that there's a problem. Um and  but by this point you said Fouchi knows that the. virus came from that lab. Yeah. To what extent was  Fouchi implicated in the creation of the virus. Do we know? Well by all accounts um he wanted  the gain of function research to continue and.

it was funded through a NGO. Imagine that the eco  health alliance. Yes. So the money still flowed, but no one would ever be able to really track  it, right? Can we say definitively that US tax. dollars helped create CO? I believe that. I mean,  whatever you think of CO, a lot of people did die. of it. Yeah. Um, millions of people died of it,  I think. Yeah. One of the great sense, Tucker, is that there was never any distinguishing between  a super vulnerable elderly person with coorb.

comorbidities. There's a different way of dealing  with that scenario than a 5-year-old healthy kid. Of course. No. Of course. And it's also it would  be good during a pandemic to have treatment for. your population, right? Not discourage treatment.  Of course. All true. I guess I just want to linger. on the fact you just endorsed it that US tax  dollars were used to help create this virus. that killed millions of people. And I feel like  the fact that no one's been held accountable. there is a I mean I don't why uh that's a good  question. I think that there's there ought to be.

um I think that there ought to be hearings. I  think Fouchy should be at least at least brought. before Congress at this point, right? At least.  Um why hasn't he been? I don't know. Yeah, I don't. not on the committee. I certainly would love to  see that happen and I think that there ought to be. accountability. Um, and this shouldn't go away. Do  you think that too many people are implicated in.

it? Maybe. Um, it it it feels to me like this was  very much a sort of a um um an inside operation. because the government well in fairness the United  States government said we don't want to do gain. of gain of function research anymore. Well, the  but we did through through the funding that that. flowed through the Eco Health Alliance, right?  That's how everything works. Exactly. They can't. do censorship, so they outsource it. They can't  assassinate people, so they outsource it. I mean,

everything is Well, and think about what we just  went through and and I don't want to we go back to. this, but look at this USA ID stuff, right? Like  I just led the recisions package to to claw back 8. billion plus of that which is like the ridiculous  stuff like trans, you know, gender sex surgeries. in Guatemala and DEI trainings in Burma and Sesame  Street in Iraq. All this ridiculous stuff that the. American people are rightly pissed off about. Um  there's no line item in the budget for that. Like. there's no line item for that. It's just the money  goes to this Institute for Peace or all this these.

BS names that exist out there and they do a bunch  of crazy stuff and then you have to kind of go on. the back end and pull it back. And there's my hope  is that when you have an administration like the. one we have now and I do think they're kind of  getting a handle on this. They paused a lot of. the funding. They've eliminated US ID altogether.  They're bringing it into the state department. That's a good that's progress. Like that's a  good thing to do. But you got to stay vigilant. on this because there's a lot of people in the  administrative state that think they know better. they're the expert and they don't care what a  senator or a congressman or even what the people.

believe or think. They know better. And that's  the kind of thing that has to be ultimately like. disrupted and dismantled completely. And that's  one of the reasons why I think my experience as. a now in the Senate um that's my focus. Like I  don't you know that that's what I want to do. I. want to get rid of all that stuff that people hate  back home. Um so but anyway, yeah, I think that. uh so so he sends his deputy over there. is a  big fan of the lockdowns. Um comes back and and.

um begins to undermine President Trump. Um you  know, when when President Trump talks about this. having come from a lab, um you know, he's already  a xenophobe because he's restricted travel. Now he. says it's from a lab. That's ridiculous. Everybody  piles on about that. And by the way, it's true. So I think that um this combination of Trump  derangement syndrome and this obsession with. power and the left I mean they couldn't have  believed their luck to have a pandemic that.

they could move all the things that they wanted to  move on. Sure. And I mean it it certainly reduced. the United States uh relative to China and on many  levels, but economically most obviously it really. gravely damaged the US economy and you know we're  still dealing with it. But I guess I just can't. can't get past this question of how did the virus  come to be and who paid for it and the downstream. effects are history changing and terrible for the  United States and terrible for the families of.

those who were killed etc etc. But like somebody  did that. Yeah. And I don't understand how. Republicans can control all three branches and we  don't have an answer. Yeah. I think ultimately um. uh the Department of Justice should take a look  at this stuff um as they should on the Russia. hoax. I think there's a lot of there's a lot it's  a target-rich environment. Let's just put it that. way. I think of the the the places that they could  go. Yeah. Um Yeah. Sorry. It's just it's just.

uh it feels like since it's been 5 years that  we're going to get to a point where it's like. we're never going to No, I know. Um Right. Which  is by the way one of the reasons we filed that. lawsuit was we felt like if you could get into  discovery phase which again is that you're suing. a foreign country. We were able to slide into one  of the exceptions. You know there's the foreign. sovereign immunities act which generally means  you can't sue foreign countries. But we I think. one of the clever things we did here is we said no  this falls into the commercial activity exception. to that. meaning if you're going to be controlling  hospital systems over there and you're going to be.

uh controlling PPE, the flow of it, um you you  fall into one of these exceptions and and the. judge agreed. But but I think the other thing  for me that became clear is the epicenter of. the global supply chain network runs through  China, right? That became very obvious. Yeah. Right. And so like for me, my son uh has epilepsy,  right? He relies on multiple seizure medications. every day to stay alive. And it it occurred to  me, well, you know, 90% of our pharmaceuticals,

80% of our pharmaceuticals come from somewhere  else, mostly China, the raw materials for it, including the seizure meds. Uhhuh. Yeah. Oh, wow.  So, think about it. What if China just decides to. stop producing that stuff or poison that stuff?  Um, one of the reasons why I'm a big proponent and. believe I think it's good for our economy, too, is  we got to onshore a lot of the stuff that was 30. years ago sent to be done somewhere else to take  that specific example. So, the seizure medications.

for epilepsy, including the ones your son takes,  they're not made in the United States. No, they're. sourced. I mean, all the the source materials  for the most part of not just anti-epileptic. uh seizure meds, but most things that people take  on a daily basis are derived from China. Yeah. But. not just vitamin C or even, you know, but drugs  that where you will literally die if you don't. have them. Those would seem like priorities. How  hard would it be to have those drugs specifically. made in the US? Do you? Um, well, I think I think  President Trump has identified this as a priority.

Certainly something we've talked about. Um,  I think for whatever reason that stuff went. somewhere else like so many other things. Um,  but that has to be brought back home at a at at. a minimum, like countries that aren't communist  regimes that want to, you know, throw people in. concentration camps and have global dominance. Um,  right. So, uh, but we should do that stuff here. It's a national security issue. Like, by the way,  the the critical minerals that we rely on to make.

fighter jets and iPhones, like this stuff, we got  to bring that stuff back home. And um and I think. you're seeing that play out in some of the trade  deals and the investment that's happening now. But yeah, but that that that occurred to me. And  I also think one of the one of the wakeup calls. here, which everybody kind of had a breaking point  with all this mine was probably the realization of. how reliant we were on China for things and one of  the reasons why we moved forward on the lawsuit. But also, if you recall, Tucker, this letter that  over a thousand public health officials signed.

um during the George Floyd protests. remember  this. They're saying everybody had to stay home. Remember this was you you couldn't people were  protesting anything else. They had to stay home. But if you were going to attend a Black Lives  Matter protest, the rules didn't apply to you. anymore. I think for members of the Democratic  Party's militia, the youth wing. Yeah. Like that. was like I think for a lot of people that I've  talked to who weren't like in the thick of it, they actually have lives and families that are  outside of this stuff. when they saw that that.

you got a license to go out and protest quote  unquote systemic racism, you could go do that, but you couldn't protest something else. That like  at that point it was very obvious what this whole. thing was about. And you saw I think the entire  apparatus of the Democrat party, these NOS's. bricks are being delivered by mysteriously by you  know organizations when the sun set. I mean, all. this stuff was meant to sort of create the kind of  um untethering that's necessary for something much.

bigger, and they were all in on that. I just worry  that um people are losing all confidence in the. system. And when people I know who are moderate  and sensible, well educated, smart, you know, will. believe anything at this point, just absolutely  anything. And the reason they'll believe anything. is because so many things they believed in  turned out not to be true. And there was zero. accountability and has been zero accountability  for really anything other than January 6th that. I'm aware of. And I just wonder if the people  in, you know, making the laws and crafting the.

regulation in Washington understand that the whole  system at some point becomes at risk because the. population's like, I don't believe anything.  Right. Well, I I agree with you. Um, and one of. the reasons why when President Trump was creating  his cabinet and going through the confirmation. process, he has put together a team. And by the  way, this isn't going to happen overnight. I. don't I don't I think this confidence that you're  talking about, this lack lost confidence, lack of.

confidence in institutions is a real thing. And  by the way, in many ways, rightfully so, right? When you have law enforcement agencies that are  weaponized not just against their chief political. rival but against the American people, we ought  to there there should be a loss of confidence. But what comes next is how do you regain the  confidence and it has to be done. It has to be. accountability, right? And so that's what needs to  happen. Not vengeance or revenge. I I don't think. that's agreed. And by the way, not to do the same  thing that they did to target a political opponent.

because political opponent, but but rather to  to say you did something was terrible for our. country, which basically relies on self-governance  and accountability. I mean, that at the end of the. day, right, that's the ultimate thing. People of  Missouri can send me there, they can send me home, they can send me back. There's some level of  accountability that comes with our with the way. our constitutional republic. But when you get to  all this other stuff that's below that, which is. why the administrative state is so dangerous  because they're not accountable to anybody. They know it. Um, and you have to rein that in and  disrupt it and dismantle it in in many ways. And.

again, I think part of what drove me to uncover a  lot of the things as ag. And now in this new role, it's to help finish that job. But you really do  need an administration that believes that, too. And I don't think we've had I can't think of any  administration in the last hundred years that is. invested in rooting that out as this one. I agree.  I just um you know there's a lot of emphasis on. co you know people who were criticizing BB on  college campuses and everything which is fine.

but I'm getting to the point and I know a lot of  the people you know run DOJ and I really like them. and think they're decent people and I agree with  them on most things. However, like the BLM riots, COVID, censorship, like you got to get to the  bottom of this stuff. Epstein, sorry to say it. I. know no one wants to hear it, but it's just true.  Not because I care that much about Epstein. It's.

like the perception, however, that some people  are above the law is the most corrosive possible. perception in any society. Yeah. No, I agree. And  I think um I think you just take this Russia gate. stuff. Exact. Here's another great example. I  think I I you know, it's so corrosive is the. right word of how it infected so many aspects of  law enforcement. What they I mean, think about it. All the time that the FBI is spending trying to  protect Hunter Biden and and you know, get Trump.

out of office or going after parents or Catholics,  like the FBI is supposed to like go after the bad. guys, right? Like help clean up the streets in  Washington DC or in St. Louis or or in New York or. wherever. Like, think of all the resources pulled  away to go do all this other [ __ ] that that the. B administration wanted to do. It's it really is  a tragedy. And so, I do think that um there's some. opportunities coming up for the Justice Department  to go do that. And the Russia gate thing is.

front and center. Just think of the idea that  Hillary Clinton, who by the way was working with. um the George Soros organization to come up with  this ridiculous theory to deflect from her emails, right, that her email scandal, they needed  something on Trump and they concocted this thing. out of thin air that he was some Russian asset or  had some was in bed with Putin on stuff. And then. they sold that to the intelligence agencies that  bought it and then convinced the president of the.

United States, Barack Obama, to spy on a the guy  who was running for president who happened to be. Republican. And then they continued to lie about  and still, by the way, continue to lie about it to. this day about their role in undermining not just  that like our system of like that two people are. running against each other and the American people  get to decide. They did everything for a five-year. period to undermine his not just his agenda but  his presidency. And then the same group of people. then are weaponized and they go get Jack Smith  who's like everybody knows in prosecutor world.

is just like a hired gun. Like you go you put you  you make him special counsel when it's like show. me the man I'll show you the crime. Yeah. Soviet  style justice. That's exactly what that was. And. it was happening in this country. And they're  down in Mara Lago going through the first lady's, you know, underwear drawer trying to find probably  stuff related to Crossfire Hurricane probably and. maybe some other stuff. But it it was just  about settling political guns. With guns.

Um and then you have, you know, Fonnie Willis's  deputy meeting with the White House counsel. Why. is a state why is a state prosecutor in Georgia  meeting with the White House counsel's office? Why would they be doing that? Why would the number  three person from DOJ go to the New York District. Attorney's office to help out with the prosecution  of President Trump? Why is all this happening? The. minute President Trump's original sin to them  was that he ran at all that he came down the.

escalator. Yes. And he was such a disruptive force  that they were willing to throw to save democracy. They were willing to destroy democracy. And so  now, and the reason why I'm I I feel committed. with the job I had, getting back to what what  job would you rather have, I think it's important. to have people in the United States Senate and  Congress who want to see this project through, that they want accountability restored, they want  people to actually not believe their government is. weaponized against them. Like, it's a tall task  given the sins of the last eight years, but it's.

important for this republic to last and to stand  and for our kids and grandkids. I couldn't agree. more. I mean, you know, you've got more relevant  law enforcement experience than a lot of people. running DOJ. Sorry to say that, but it's true.  Do I hope that you're in contact I won't even ask. you put you in an uncomfortable position, but I  hope that you're in contact with them. And I hope. that you will convey the following message. To the  extent that you don't bring to light the truth and. affect justice, people start to think, well, maybe  you're in league with the bad guys, too. I mean,

I don't, you know, which I think is unfair. And  I like the attorney general and I like the FBI. director and Leonino and all that, but like it I  think it's fair to ask at a certain point like why. aren't you prosecuting anybody for any of this  stuff? And like what's the answer? Well, we're. really busy. Really? Are you really that busy? I  don't you know what I mean? And maybe you're in. on it too. And I don't think they are in on it. I  don't think they're bad people. I'm not alleging. that. But a lot of people will start to think  that very soon unless they act. And I hope you. will pass on that message. I will. And I think um  what people are looking for is is action. There's.

no doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Is it hard to I mean you  would know since you've been involved in it all, but just as a process matter, is it hard to say,  you know, we know that Clapper and Brennan were. involved in illegal activities. Let's get an  indictment. Like how hard is that? Well, yeah. I. mean, I think the the issue is that it's possible  some of the statute of limitations may have on a. lot of the crimes. However, not necessarily on a  conspiracy on an ongoing conspiracy and there's.

also no um presidential candidate immunity.  Hillary Clinton doesn't have immunity. Now, Barack Obama likely does. Ironically, because of  the US versus Trump case where John Sauer, who's. now the solicitor general, who's my my solicitor  general, argued successfully before the Supreme. Court that official acts, you know, you can't have  ongoing no. You know, so there is a such a thing. as presidential immunity that was established. So  Barack Obama may have presidential immunity while. he was in office. I don't know if he, you know,  engaged in activities after he was out of office.

Who knows? Uh certainly James Comey doesn't have  immunity. Clapper doesn't have immunity. Brennan. doesn't have immunity. So I think, you know, this  is going to go where the facts lead. And I think. that the most likely um if there was something  to pursue, it's likely an ongoing conspiracy to. defraud the American people. And that is a crime.  So, we'll see. But, um, but there there there can. and probably should be, no, well, let me say  definitely should be indictments. Dan Bonino,

uh, who's taking a lot of crap for the Epstein  thing, but I can verify since I know him well, is a good man, decent man, but he said in  public and also in private that the FBI is. way more corrupt than he had any any sense  of, but he didn't know. He said that. And, um, how hard is it? Why is it so hard to clean up  the FBI? Um, well, I guess you could say, um, you. kind of need to know the word is the known knowns,  known unknowns, and unknowns from ironically. Uh,

I think you got to figure out who the people  are. Um, but nobody's got a right to be uh a. insubordinate FBI uh agent like you don't like  they have no authority apart from the president's. authority. And the president's authority derives  from elections, right? because it's authority. conferred by the people as expressed by voting.  It's also interesting like they have no authority. at all. Right. Well, take take the civil rights  division. Uh I mean uh Dylan I think is doing a.

great job. Um she a number of those and that  perhaps was maybe the most corrupt division. out there, the civil rights division. Right. She's  my former lawyer and I can say she's tough. Yeah, she's tough. Um and I think there's a lot that  we're going to see from I I just had a hearing. I I chair the subcommittee on the Constitution  of the Judiciary Committee. We just had her come. in and say, "Hey, what are you thinking about  doing?" Like what what are the things that are. on your on your things on list of things to do.  I think she's um uh obviously universities have.

been a topic of conversation, but I also think  in corporate America, they ought to be um ready. because this discriminatory DEI stuff flies in  the face of federal law. The Civil Rights Acts. of the 1960s were meant to protect people from  racial discrimination. Everyone. Everyone. And. there are people being racially discriminated  against right now. And and by the way, these. struggle sessions that exist like Coca-Cola,  you know, would have a seminar, you know, saying basically from the moderator, how can you  be less white? I mean, this is insanity. How can.

you be less black? How can you be less ridiculous?  How can you be less Hispanic? Like, what the hell. is going on? And it by the way, our military,  I think, I'm on the armed services committee. We would ask I would ask questions all the time.  We would try and that's went a little underground. once it was exposed. But this idea of dividing  the room. Our military is this great supposed. to be this great meritocracy. Anybody from any  background can go serve. You can have a ticker. tape parade in New York City as being a war hero.  Doesn't matter where you came from, what your race. is. We celebrate that. This idea of dividing the  room by race and who's the oppressor and who's.

the oppressed is insane. But but I think the civil  rights division is a good example. I think they're. going to they're going to pursue some things that  that prior regimes didn't pursue. And I think that. will have a an important effect on behavior  as well. You do think that I do. Um, do you. have confidence in the attorney general? Yeah, I I  listen Pam I I think President Trump's put a good. team around him and I have a ton of respect for  Pam Bondi. I do. What do you make of the Epstein. thing? Um, I think that they more needs to be  done on transparency. There's no doubt about.

it. I think any of the credible information that  can come out should come out. I will also say uh. the Southern District of New York had those  files. Um James Comey's daughter was the the. lawyer handling this in the Southern District of  New York. So weird how that works. Yeah. I So I. don't know what that means, but I do think that um  u more transparency would be a good thing. Well,

you often hear I mean now you're in a position  to receive classified information. I'm sure. you have meetings in the fabled skiff from  time to time. Um, we often hear, you know, we we can't tell you that for reasons of national  security, reasons of privacy, whatever, all these. different reasons. We have more than a billion  classified federal documents. Like, why? Yeah, we there should be a uh I agree with you and  I've heard you talk about this before. There's. just way too much stuff that's hidden behind  what's so-called classified. A lot of that stuff.

should never be classified in the first place.  is sort of a great way to never have to have. um transparency with the American people. Um and  by the way, contributes to this lack of trust that. you're talking about. I think the more information  you can get out there, the better. And by the way, I do find it hilarious. We have these sometimes  we have these all senator briefings. Yeah. Um. and uh it's all nothing comes of it. like  there's nothing new that that wasn't already.

leaked by somebody in the Pentagon to the New  York Times the day before. Now, some of these. you can get in there and ask on a one, by the  way, not necessarily the the top level person, but somebody that's actually doing the work.  You can ask some some questions in a much more. private setting, but some of this stuff is just  a way to hide behind. Interestingly, um Chris Ray. once mentioned that we can't gather information  the same way we did uh prior to the lawsuit. He. was was referencing Missouri versus Biden because  the FBI was very much a part of this censorship.

regime where they were flagging stuff and calling  it Russian disinformation and working with the big. tech companies and he was sort of annoyed that  his, you know, practices were being curtailed. because the courts said you can't do that anymore.  His very, you know, for me having been the guy. that filed it and then now sitting, you know,  when he said that was really an interesting turn. of events. How many senators are former AGs? Um,  there are probably five on the on the Republican. side. There's maybe four. There's probably  about the same on the maybe on the Democrats.

How much is spent on your average Senate race?  Oh, um, I mean, I would imagine it ranges from. 20 million to then you get into Yeah. Right.  hundreds like $200 million in Montana where. there like literally um one of the least populated  states a very important state but was important. for them to take the majority. I would just pay  off everyone's mortgage and call it a day. So and.

then but the AG race is I mean this a long  way of making a short point which is an AG. seems like every bit as important a job as being  a US senator. It's a very important job for sure. And I think the rest of us are just waking up to  that kind of How much is spent on those races? Oh, a fraction of that, right? Fraction of that.  And then and then you get into races where, you know, we've got, you know, red states or blue  states, but red states and it's really about the. primary and that's even less expensive, right? And  someone like Dana Nestle I in Michigan I think had.

did more damage to the state than that kind of the  Botox governor ever thought about doing. like Dan. Esle's like a truly poisonous anti-Christian  dangerous person. That's my read on her. anyway. I don't know her. And she kind of gets  ignored and everyone beats up on the governor, the hless governor. Well, what's interesting about  that is um we kind of took a page. So during co. um you know Cuomo had instituted a like a tip  line essentially to tell on your neighbors. and I think Tim Walls did this actually too. Oh  for sure. Um they had this tip line where you'd.

snitch. They don't tattletails. Yeah. like you're  outside barbecuing without a mask on and all of a. sudden the police shows up. I mean, I think this  happened in Minnesota. So, we kind of turned it on. its face when we sued um the 65 school districts  in Missouri. We said, "We're going to have a tip. line not for the suppression of rights, but to  vindicate people's rights." We had a tip line of. parents reach out to us of what schools were still  forcing their kids to wear masks all day long. And. I'll tell you, Tucker, um, in some of the dark,  lonely moments of this fight when, you know,

now it seems very settled, like that was a  terrible thing to be doing to kids. But back then, not everybody, I would get interviewed  by reporters locally in Missouri who were. still in their cars cuz they couldn't go in the  studio with masks on asking me questions about, you're trying to, you know, sue a school district  for not why do you want to kill the kids? Right. Exactly. Those are the questions that they would  be asking. So many kids died of CO. Right. So the. stories we got coming in were just devastating.  There were there was a kid in one school district. who um because she because she refused to take her  mask off was meant to si sat on a stage by herself.

in the cafeteria to eat lunch by herself away from  the other kids. We got emails from a a a parent. of a deaf child. So this is just just killing  my kid. can't my kid can't see any, you know, can't pick up language the way that normally picks  up language. The the extent to which these adults. who should have known better were just willing  to do all this. Yeah. It's just it's terrible.

Like it's terrible. And so I think again, you just  never let that happen again. And and by the way, these are the same people that say, "Well, once  we have a vaccine that that things will change.". That didn't change anything. And by the way, it  didn't affect trans transmissibility, of course, but then you were censored for saying that even  though it was true. So again, the uh the sins of. that era should, you know, not be forgotten  because we can't let it happen again. Well, they they also are the basis of the society we're  living in now. It changed everything. It changed.

people's attitudes toward each other, toward the  state, changed the economy, changed the culture up. and down, spiked the suicide rate. Yeah. Shortened  the life expectancy, increased drug and alcohol. addiction exponentially. I mean, like things fell  apart. Yeah. Now I think the one one thing um. particularly from there I think you're seeing this  with a lot of younger especially males um who came. up during that era and by by the way large kids of  that of that generation now that grew up with that. are much more conservative than any generation  that preceded them because I think they saw some.

of the they saw what was happening to their their  social networks their with their schooling and I. think it's part of the reason why you're seeing  kind of a um especially young men who are also. being told that you're the reason why everything  is terrible. I would disagree. I don't think. they're conservative as much as they're radical.  I think they're way more radical than Republicans. understand. I think they're really radical. I  don't think they're going to vote for Democrats. anytime soon, but I mean, I think that their views  are so different from your average 75-year-old.

Republican senator. Yeah. Oh, I would agree with  that 100%. Do is there an appreciation of that? I. don't know that everybody sees that, Tucker. Um I  feel like I try to be a voice for that. Um because. uh you know and I ran I ran statewide three times  in 6 years in that era in Missouri. You get a real. sense of kind of what's really going on if you  spend the time getting around talking to people. and um that's my sense of it too. So you you've  been you filled three elected offices. Yeah.

Treasurer AG senator. Well I was in the state  senate before that actually. State Oh gosh. Yeah. In my when I was 31 years old or whatever  that was. Wow. Yeah. I uh yeah, I got into it's. interesting. I um everybody has their own path  for me. Um it wasn't anything I was thinking. about. And then um my son Steven was born. Yes.  In in 2004 and was diagnosed with a rare genetic. condition called tuberosclerosis which there's  tubers that form in different organs including.

his brain which has affected his development and  he has epilepsy seizures nearly every day. Um but. he's non-verbal. Stephen will be 21 here in a few  days. But seeing him go through that, including a. 4-hour seizure um and being in the ICU for over  a week. I kind of went through this process as. a child. Oh, yeah. As a 2, three-year-old, and he  was would have them every few months that we would. be in the hospital. And in the 4-hour seizure, um  they were on the last medication they could give.

him. He had to wait 20 minutes. And I remember  there was like a red digital clock on the wall. that had the seconds, you know, ticking by and  had to wait 20 minutes before they could try a. new med. and he's seizing the whole time and all  I could do was be there with him and pray. Jamie. had to my wife had to leave the room and I would  just pray the whole time and um the last one uh. worked. They were about ready to induce a coma so  we almost lost Stephen that day. But but it's it's. something but anyway you go through for me. How  did you keep your family together? Like how do you.

you have other children? Two Yeah. Then we two two  um we later had two daughters. Sophie and Olivia. were great, but um we did, you know, we wanted  to have more kids. I think those things, Tucker, you go one of two ways with your faith in your  family. And for us, it strengthened our family, my wife and I. And even my faith, I uh went  through a process of discernment. Um I'm Catholic, was educated by by the Jesuits, and there's this  process of sort of like trying to figure out what. you want to do with your life. And that was an  inflection point for me. And I wanted to do more.

than what I was doing. I made partner in a law  firm. That was great. I was building career in a. family, but I felt like there was something more  to do. So, I was called. How did that strengthen. your faith? It doesn't seem like an obvious  response if you you grew up Catholic. You go. to Catholic schools. And then the tough really  the toughest thing that could ever happen to a. man happens to you. And so, why wouldn't you say,  well, you know, God has abandoned me. There is no. God. This is too horrible. Like, why would that  strengthen your faith? Um, I think it it certainly.

gives you a perspective on what the things you  can control and what you can't control. Yes. And. so much of of uh I mean, think of the original sin  really. It's just trying to become God um in the. Garden of Eden. and and and I think that it is  it um look there's a there's a morning that it. never totally goes away um when I go to a baseball  game or something like that um and see a dad with. a his son that's about Steven's age or kids go  off to college and do those sorts of things that.

Steven will never get to do. Steven will never be  married and have kids and that's that's tough as. a dad. That's really tough. But I would say that  from that I've gained a much greater perspective. on the things that are important, the things that  are real. Um, and he's a happy kid and and there's. he when you see him, when he sees you or sees me,  if he were here right now, he'd be walking around, he give you a big hug and that kind of thing.  But the minute that I see him or wake him up in. the morning, he's just got this just look of joy  on his face. And and I um people have asked me,

you know, what do you think heaven is like? Heaven  is that to me, that second or two where I feel. that just intense, unadulterated, unconditional  love for my boy times eternity. That's that's that. must be what it's like where all this other stuff  is is not that's not important, isn't important. And that's the closeness you have with God, your  creator, forever. And so Steven has taught me a.

lot of things. And um it was my inspiration to  enter all of this and still is. What I've heard. um I have known parents with a child with Down  syndrome say something similar that for all of the. you know obviously the tragedy and the sadness and  the difficulty that there's something about the. child that like just emanates radiates joy. What  I think he's our I talked about I think he's our.

little angel that that teaches us all the time and  I think there's a um there's an innocence there. um with Steven and and um our job is to to  love him and protect him and uh there's there's. something you know kind of unique about that.  Um, so I think for for me it's um this going to. be sorry um this is like the what is it in the uh  Jerry McGuire movie? The Rod Tidwell Roy Firestone. moment where I cry or something. It's all right.  No, but I um it's hard to explain Tucker. It's.

it's such a touch touchstone for me that um it's  what's really important. And so I I um there's a. there's something that u also that I try to think  about is this um indifference and and what I mean. by indifference is it's not you don't care about  something. It's that whatever and St. Ignatious. Loyola talks about this whatever comes your way  um you make the most of it and there's a certain.

um freedom that can come from that again that I  think Steven has taught me but for but for this. experience with with Steven I I don't know that  that's how I would view things and so in in that. way it's a blessing even though it's hard you know  that you that that sometimes like you know when we. went to the inauguration when I got sworn in as  a as the 2000th US senator um Um, my whole family. went. My parents had never been to the capital.  Um, I had only been there a couple times. I mean,

I was in in Missouri and we just even we don't  fly. So, we drove we drove from St. Louis to. Washington. And looking back on that, like you  think, oh man, that's a lot. The ride there. with my kids in the back seat and my wife and I  listening to music that we listen to in college. for the 12-hour drive. that that was an experience  I wouldn't have had right without Steven having. the condition that he has. So there's a lot of  blessings that I take from it. I I think so you.

drove 12 hours across the country with three kids  and you you found that a blessing. Yeah. Thank. God for Stephen. No, I mean that's just No, it  does sound ridiculous, doesn't it? No, it sounds. wonderful. It sounds No, it sounds wonderful.  And if you count it as a blessing, then that says. something about you. So it's perspective, I guess.  But anyway, that's a long way of me getting to the. answer your question, which is yes. Then I I I ran  for office and then I felt like there was more to. do and then um and and so here I am. So what' you  think? So you said you'd only been when you were.

sworn into the capital a few times. Then you're in  this famously cohesive, not to say clanish body of. 100 um senators. Like what did you think of it? Um  what's the old line? You get there and the first. few months you say, "How did I get here?" And  then after that you say, "How did these people. get there?" Right. Uh no. Um I have I have immense  respect. I mean, I think I've always um I look, I love America and I think our founders were were  genius and inspired, divinely inspired by the.

system that was created to that ultimately this  checks and balances, separation of powers, all of. it was meant to protect individual liberty, right?  They saw the excesses of government. Ironically, a lot of things we're talking about, we fight  back against um that the best way to guard it. was you had faction versus faction, right? You  had all these things sort of playing off. So, I think to guard it, not bestow it. Correct. And  our rights don't come from government. They come. from God. And the government's job is to protect  those rights that we're born with, the ability to. speak your mind, the ability to defend yourself,  the ability to petition, all these things. So,

I come at it from that perspective. So, I  I I treat it as such. like I I think it's a. very important role that you play and I think our  system is is important in design to protect um you. know this very important experiment but ultimately  human dignity and flourishing and so that's how I. come at it. Look, are there are there things about  it that are that are frustrating? Absolutely. Like. my first two years there um when Chuck Schumer  was in charge, you hear about this uh world's. most deliberative body. There w the the the worst  thing that I learned is that there isn't as much.

like people think Mr. Smith goes to Washington and  you're on the floor. There's just there wasn't a. lot of opportunity to be on the floor to offer  amendments to find unique coalitions that might. exist there that people wouldn't expect. that  was that didn't happen and that was that was. frustrating and I think you know what what is  important now that we have the majority is that. we have those more of those opportunities when I  was you know I'm very thankful to handle handle. President Trump's recisions package I didn't put  any limits on amendments I didn't tell anybody.

don't offer the amendment or we're going to box  you out offer the amendment let's vote on it. let's see where people kind of land so I think  that was one observation the other one is that. uh interestingly in my class that came in in 20  we were elected in 2022. It was very much a a. generational turnover from the people that we were  um following in those offices and uh there's a bit. of a bonding. I mean JD and I vice vice president  Vance uh and I um became very good friends. Um.

we shared a lot of common experiences in life and  viewed the world similarly and other people in the. class um you know Ted Bud and and Katy Brid and  Pete Ricketts and all there's just you don't get. to share that life experience with many people.  Yes. So, we go to go to dinner once a month and. talk about like not legislation you're working on,  but like real life stuff about our kids and the. things that are important. And so, I was lucky,  I think, that I came in with a group that that. was about the same age and and had same cultural  references and things like that. But the average.

age of the Senate is, you know, several hundred  [Music] uh um Yes. 67 and a half or something like. that. Yes. So, um, you know, and like I play on  the congressional baseball team. I'm, you know, the one senator that that starts because, you  know, for whatever reason. Um, which by the way, that I got to, you know, meet a lot of House  members that I would never have met um otherwise. I mean, I think people think the House and the  Senate are like working together on all this.

stuff. I mean, you have relationships, but being  at a baseball practice at 5:45 in the morning, 4:45 Missouri time, there's a bit of a bonding  that can happen with that, too. You get to know. people. And so I just try to meet people where  they're at. Um, and I think if you have, you know, you you work hard, I have deeply held beliefs that  I'm going to fight for, as we've talked about, but that doesn't mean you have to be an [ __ ]  uh along the way to everybody. And that's that's. that's not me. So, um, so I'm just trying to  be as effective as I can for the the cause. Is.

the Republican party changing under Trump? Yeah, I  believe so. I mean, I think you look at the people. who've been elected since, say, 18ish, right? Um,  the Senate is meant to be uh, you know, it's it's. a third of the Senate is up every two years and  the House the entire House of Representatives. can turn over in two years theoretically, right?  The Senate is designed to be that way. But I do. think I do think it's changing. I think um,  President Trump I I think one of his great. contributions to the Republican party is that um,  it has uh, given people the confidence to fight.

I think that that's a good thing. I think  that's right. Right. Uh because I think. that no longer can we deny that we're up  against some benign force out there. I mean, there are people on the other side that have a  very different vision of this country than we do. And you better stand up and fight for it. And I  think he's given us great cause to do it. I mean, you just look at this comeback and it's just sort  of like it's historically I mean, we're living in.

a very historic moment. We're talking about it  in real time. But when people look back, I mean, he was in office, out of office, came back. That's  only happened one time. Nobody alive now has ever. seen that. Came back and against a backdrop of  people trying to throw him in jail, bankrupt him, and assassinate him. And he's back. And I think  the difference now, I wasn't there in the first. term, but there is a a definite recognition in  recognition even of some who don't who aren't as. aligned as I am with President Trump that he  earned it and that his policy agenda and his.

nominees should get a fair shake. I don't know  if that was true the first time. I don't think. it was true the first time. No. Uh but the  Senate is changing and I think there's an I, you know, take foreign policy for perspective. I  think there's an ascending view that I subscribe. to which is sort of American realism. Um it's  much more restrained diplomacy. If you have to. move on something that's a legitimate threat to  your core national interest, you do it swiftly, decisively. Yeah. Um but this kind of meandering  foreign policy where you can be everywhere all. at once all the time that sort of predated the  last decade, I think that's a uh that's not the.

future. Um but it's it's still an ascending view.  But I do think the Senate is changing and I think. um um President Trump has sort of led the way  on that. And I think just look look at the. conversation we're having now about trade. A lot  of these things that were you know after the cold. war ended and Soviet communism was was defeated  in that way. There was never really an adjustment. like in in many ways Europe and Japan we allowed  them to get back up on their feet whether it was.

protection through NATO or these disastrous trade  deals but they had a purpose at the time was for. them to get up and be able to stand up on their  own two feet. Well, that time is over. I mean, in many ways, right? Like, we shouldn't have  ridiculous trade deals. So, President Trump. wielding tariffs to get a better deal. That's  working. We're getting record investment, trillions of dollars in this country. And then  also, you know, look at NATO now. Like, they're. actually like we'll see if they actually do it.  But one of the reasons why I went to the Munich. Security Conference, um I I don't have the same  foreign policy view of most people that go there,

but I wanted to tell them the truth, not what they  wanted to hear. I think so many like the agilation. and the red carpet that gets rolled out and you're  treated as American whatever over there hero to. some like that that wasn't my purpose. I wanted  them to understand that there's a shift happening. We are pivoting. We're going to protect the  homeland. We understand China. The 21st century. is going to be defined by this great competition  with communist China. We have to win that fight. and you need to stand up on your own two feet much  more than you ever have before. And I think it's. important that more people deliver that message.  So I do think that's part of the transformation.

of the Republican party right now. and also rooted  and I'm very comfortable in this place now because. I grew up in a blueco collar neighborhood. My dad  works 7 days a week in the midnight shift. This. ability to connect with working people to fight  for them not the corporate interests but the. people who are working hard who just want their  kids to have a better life than them. They've been. vilified for so long. They've been looked over in  so-called flyover country for too long. Their time. is now. And I think President Trump has a very  unique way of connecting. And as I said earlier,

I think what people want right now more than  anything is authentic leadership. And and so. it's an incredible time to be there. And I I like  I I I think this is where it's headed and I'm just. grateful to be a part of it. Where as honestly  or um sort of impartially or non-emotionally as. you can. Can you describe where you think the  Democratic party is going? Uh I don't think. they've hit rock bottom yet. Okay. Actually, I I  think that you look at the people that are filling. up the arenas. It's Bernie Sanders. It's AOC.  It's this Mandami guy who's literally a communist.

running. He's going to be the mayor of New York  probably. Looks that way. Um, so I think they're. still searching. They don't have a message.  They don't have a messenger. They're still. obsessed with President Trump with Trump Trump  derangement syndrome. They've sort of learned. nothing from the last goound with all this. Um,  and you know, just things that used to be I mean, uh, there used to be kind of a, um, by the way, a  Washington consensus isn't always a it's usually a.

bad thing. Um, you you but there used to be kind  of a belief that borders were important. Yeah. I don't think they believe that anymore. I think  if you really press the rank and file Democrat in. Congress, it's it's it's um, they believe in mass  migration. They don't think that that lines on a. map. They think that lines on a map are arbitrary.  They'll never win with that. Right. I know. And I. don't think they'll get away from it. So, I think  you saw some self-reflection after the election, but they're falling back into the same migration  has made everyone's life worse in this country.

It has. And uh and I think that you look at the  Overton window on that now versus 10 years ago. when President Trump came down the escalator. It's  pretty dramatic. It is dramatic in a good way. Right. So, I think that often times we get caught  up in the the daily news cycle. what is the thing. of the day? But if we take a step back and we look  at how the Republican party has been transformed, how the country has sort of woken up from this  fever dream they talk a lot about in the book, like I think that's all positive. Yes, there's  more work to do, but I'm optimistic. I I think.

that's wise. You're taking a bigger view of it and  a lot has changed a lot and it's good. Here's my. one of my And by the way, real quick, the other  thing that's different when I was growing up, um it was in college in the 90s, this political  correctness thing was sort of beginning and I saw. it and sometimes I would take classes knowing that  I would u I was even a contrarian back then. Um. because I loved a good debate and um I've always  been pretty conservative. I always was a little.

jealous of liberals in that they kind of had the  high ground on free speech. Oh yeah. you know, they were right. And I'm glad now and particularly  proud of the work as you know, we're talking about. in the book of I think we have taken that  mantle now. They they've abandoned it. They. don't believe in it anymore. Uh it's all about  power and control. And um I think if we maintain. this path of fighting for people's right to say  things even if you don't agree with them is a very.

important thing for us to maintain the connection  with this new coalition that's been created in the. Republican party. Agree. So the number of people  who believe that on either side is really small. because speech is of course a threat to the people  in power no matter what side they're on. That's. why liberals went from being you know big donors  to the ACLU to to you know controlling Facebook. So because they took power. So like nobody nobody  wants to be challenged. I think only the truly. principled I think you're in the group are willing  to accept challenge to their power you know.

without uh trying to shove people up. My concern  is that Mum Donnie who I think is a you know I. don't think much of him. However, I think his main  appeal may be quality of life worries that people. have and I'm do you think I know this has been a  big issue for you, but there aren't that many of. you actually in the Senate talking about people's  lives like somebody in power needs to address.

declining quality of life in this in this country  or else there will be a lot more mum donnies. Yeah, I agree with that. Um, and that, you know,  I think especially for young people, um, who are, you know, they're coming out of college with a  lot of debt, they don't, you know, they may not be. able to afford a house or have a family, you know,  the way things are tracking until they're in their. 30s somehow. That's a very different America. And  not a better one. Not a No, I agree with that. And I think part of it is understanding the moment  that we're in. And um you think about you know the.

ability to have a one-inccome family and and like  that very difficult to imagine now in for a lot of. people and uh and people can choose to do it or  not do it but you ought to have be able to have. the option. I think a lot of opportunity hopefully  will come for bringing manufacturing back. There. are twice as many people that work in government  than have manufacturing jobs in this country. Um, I think the number was 90,000 factories have left  the United States since NAFTA. Yeah. Like that's.

dramatic. And I think Perau was right. There was  a giant. And by the way, what's interesting about. Missouri um, you know, I'm in Maine with you. Uh,  Maine and Missouri have a connection because the. Missouri compromise, of course, Missouri and Maine  came in at the same time, although Missouri took a. little bit longer. And on the state seal, there's  a belt buckle that holds the seal together. And it. was uh basically telling the federal government  that we we would retain our independence and we. may leave because you're screwing us over. So like  we would unbuckle the the buckle. And uh not that.

I'm I'm not advocating for that. I'm just saying  even back then 40 years later they found out no. one's allowed to leave. Right. Right. But like  No, but the point is it's like this even back. then Missurrians were skeptical of a government  telling them how to live their lives a thousand. miles away. So, um I I think that um that it's  it's important for us to to kind of forge this. path where we are providing more opportunity  for people, but Missou's always had this kind. of independence streak. If you look at the states  where Perau did particularly well, was in a place.

like Missouri. Pap Buchanan was somebody that I  listened to growing up and when I was my dad said. my dad worked seven days a week in the midnight  shift. It also meant that he was home like after. school so he could like go to my games and play  a lot of sports or we would watch Crossfire on. the one television when you had one television in  the living room and I would watch Jack Kemp and. Pap Buchanan kind of thunder away and they  were fighting for the little guy. Oh yeah, they were fighting for the little guy and you had  Ronald Reagan, you know, of course then trying to.

you build this coalition too. So anyway, the punch  line is um Perau was right. this giant sucking. sound was real. Letting China into the World  Trade Organization was a huge disaster. Um, but. it doesn't need to be that way. And I think that's  the hope with advanced manufacturing that we can. bring those jobs home. It won't look the same as  the 1960s. It won't be an assembly line in Detroit. in that way. But you just think of I just think  people are looking for for more opportunities. And uh I think the people that I grew up around,  you know, their parents were were truck drivers.

or cops or factory workers. And I didn't know any  lawyers growing up, not one. And um but I thought. the law gave structure which kind of and people,  real people, normal people to pursue their dreams, whatever that was, which is why that's what I  pursued. But the people I grew up around, they. they got dealt this double whammy, which was their  jobs went overseas and then as they're looking. for new jobs, those wages get undercut through  illegal immigration and mass immigration. So,

it's no wonder people are looking for something  different. And uh we better be the ones that that. provide that. And I think that we're on the right  track, but it, you know, there there are warning. signals out there um that uh we better be the ones  with the solutions cuz Mandami is kind of a cook. and a commami, but you know, maybe there'll be  somebody smarter than him. Yeah, it's the biggest. city in the country. Uh so last question about  that. Um, I know you're probably not going to. drinks with Democrats every night or anything, but  are there any Democratic members of the House or.

Senate who you're pretty sure are going to run for  president? Cuz of course, wide open on the other. side. Oh, yeah. You can look at the theatrics  right now, the ones that are stomping on the floor. a little bit more. I think, you know, Cy Booker  is making some moves actually. I think I mean, if you're uh Chris Murphy really. Yeah. So, and  that look I I think in many ways so we're safe, right? I think in many ways though it it is a  competition to be the greatest resistor. That's.

what's going on right now. Yeah. And I don't think  that's right. But they such a dead end. I know. But they think it is. And it's also why like you  know some of these nominations which are you know. I think the last time we had to vote like roll  call vote on the ambassador a year ago was like. 50 years ago. But we're doing all that now because  the Democrats view this sort of obstruction as the. path. And I don't think that Uruguay is like a  more important ally than it was 50 years ago. No, that's not why we're voting. The stakes aren't  higher in Uruguay, right? Yeah. So, I think that.

there's uh in Chuck Schumer, by the way, I don't  know that he runs again uh in two years. Um but he. hears the footsteps of AOC. Oh. Of AOC. So, that's  that's where the party's going. They're terrified. of that. They're terrified of it because where  the energy is um on their side and and by the. way that's that's good news for us because it's  just crazy stuff. It's the same old you know you. know race essentialism and control and it just you  know this Green New Deal nonsense that would last.

forever. If you had a modern Democrat, which is to  say an oldfashioned Democrat, Harry Truman maybe. Yeah. No, but that's exactly right. Or the earlier  version of Dick Gard from your state. Sure. um the. you know pro-life, pro labor, like that guy could  win. I think they've all been run out. This is. a good example actually in Missouri. So Missouri  was this ultimate bellweather state for 100 years. and pick the right or the pick the winner I should  say. Every time but once Adlay Stevenson the only.

exception u it was a great bell weather. There  were rural Democrats everywhere. Everywhere. In. fact, most of outstate Missouri was blue with  pro-life proun Democrats. They're all gone. They're literally all gone. Progon pro pro  labor. Yeah, that too. Um and uh you can't. find them anywhere in Missouri. They're just  in St. Louis and Kansas City and they're pretty. radical. They're competing to be the most like  during COVID like you had the mayor of St. Louis, the mayor of Kansas City competing to be the most  woke COVID restrictor in the country. Like that.

was the competition, right? So the incentive  structure is really messed up for them right. now because the only way you do it is if you're  one of the lefties. Everyone hates that stuff. Yeah. But in their circle, um, again, I think  this is the, you know, the Trump derangement. syndrome stuff. It's so hard for them to  get rid of. Did donors push that on them, do you think? Oh, yeah. I think that that they're  think I mean, Soros, what Soros has funded, they chased that. Look at the prosecutors that did  all the damage across the country. You know, you. talk about an arbitrage of the system, very little  money went to disrupting a lot of our lives. So,

um, yeah, but I I think but now in Missouri,  there's literally no Democrat representing, uh, rural Missouri. And, um, the margins, like in my  last race in some of the counties, say in the boot. heels, like 80 86% of the vote. Really? What were  your numbers in St. Louis and Kansas City? Well, I'm from the St. Louis area, so like in St. Louis  County, which is where I live, was able, you know, I've been more effective of kind of holding the  line, but you, you know, in St. Louis City, it's,

you know, 8020, you're going to lose. But it's  the city itself is 300,000. The the metro area is. 3 million. But um St. Louis County has a million  people. Um you just basically hold on as much as. you can appeal the people and then you you know  you're running up the score everywhere else in. in a dramatic way. It used to be the dynamic was  they did much better in rural Missouri and then. they get into the cities and then that's what  would get them over the top at midnight by you. know a certain number of votes. So boy that that  pattern you're you just described is everywhere.

everywhere. Yeah. Does that stay the same for  a while? I think so for a while. Um I I tell I. warn people all the time that nothing is static.  I think that's the dynamic that we're in, at least. for right now. Um and like I said, I don't think I  don't know how to gauge the midterms, Tucker. Like. I don't know the House races as much and the  redistricting thing is going to have a play. But the one thing that's true is the Democrats  have jerrymandered these seats for a long time. They've got nowhere else to go. So, like, and by  the way, the idea that we that that you don't have. to be a citizen to be counted in the census is  insane. California would lose seats, no doubt. Um,

can that be fixed? Yeah, it could be. You could  ask the question on the census um uh and and. only that would be counted then in the next census  cycle. Now, there would be legal challenges that, but I think you're I think you can do that. And  by the way, it has enormous impact on like federal. dollars and how they're doled out, but I think  if the redistricting will affect the numbers. So, I don't know about the midterms. I have  confidence that that that will hold the. House. The Senate will remain in Republican  hands. There's just not that many seats that.

are in like battleground territory. But longer  term, um, I think we're in a strong position, but we're also going to have to be very mindful,  which I love, that we've got this new coalition. that's kind of I joked when I I spoke at the  the convention last year that you had Kid Rock, Hulk Hogan, and Normal People on the stage. This  is exactly the party that I've been waiting for. my whole life, and we've got it. And so I want to  work as hard as I can to help. You just don't want. the party of Bill Gates to steal economic populism  from you because that's when you lose. Yeah. No.

and and they'll some people will be smart enough  to understand it. I think again they're they're. um you notice now how like Bado Aor and all  these guys are like cussing more often. It's. like oh it's like if you can be like it's like  faking authenticity. I know it's ridiculous. I'd. love to talk to Bet's wife. I haven't never met  her. But I wonder if she's impressed because I. bet she's not. I bet she thinks it's phony as  hell. I bet she really does. I bet nobody has. more. I'm just guessing. I I've never talked  to Mrs. Work and I doubt her name is Mrs.

work. I bet she's got another name cuz she's so  embarrassed. But um I bet she's more contemptuous. of him than anyone. Yeah. So I think they they've  again I don't think they've fleshed all this out. yet. And I I think they're in a real troublesome  spot, right? You got this kind of Star Wars bar of. leftists that they can't get out of the room and  it's pushing everybody to the left and I think. people will reject that. So there was no moment  because remember for the month after the election.

there were Democrats including Gavin Newsome who  were like really this isn't working for us and we. should try something new that never went anywhere.  No I mean Rob Emanuel is kind of talking that way. as a diagnosis but I don't but in order to get the  nomination that like post-mortem assessment will. get you nowhere because I don't think their base  wants to hear that. I think that's right. their. base wants them to fight over everything right  now. That's not where the American people are.

That's the good news, right? Because Trump got a  mandate. He got the You see that in the Senate? Yeah. Yeah. It's and and for that place, you  know, for that place to operate with 60 votes, that's a that's a different environment, right?  like we're we're dealing with and by the way been. very successful I think of the three stages so  far which is getting Trump's team in place cabinet. batted a thousand on that y reconciliation which  by the way not a lot of people have they talked.

about the one big beautiful bill the name but  like you've got for the first time school um um. school choice provisions in there more for working  families with 529s to save you've got um no tax on. tips no tax on overtime for the for or the truck  driver that's working overtime or the waitress. that's working two shifts like that's a big deal  like that's that is now there's other stuff in. there but you you frontloaded money for border  like for deportations more ICE agents in beds like. that's all in there you frontloaded a lot of that  so there's a lot of wins there and then we get to. recisions which which I handled and that was you  know probably more difficult than it should have.

been but we got it done those are the three big  things so far so there's more to do but I think. we could do all that with 51 votes right because  of just the way the the statutes are are drafted. Um, but if the Democrats are really in this mode  of of resistance, it's going to be, you know, who knows how this all plays out because right  now Chuck Schumer doesn't see an incentive of of. working with Republicans on anything and I think  that ultimately burns him. I mean, Trump after the. midterm is, you know, can't run again. So, at that  point, if the Democrats message is we hate Trump,

do does that get you the presidency? No, I think  it's a I think you're right. It's a midterm play. But they have long-term problems because that  has defined their party. And in many ways, this. lawfare that was exhibited was all just a symptom  of the same problem, right? Is they're singularly. obsessed with President Trump. And every policy  position he takes, they take the opposite. Again,

tried to throw him in jail, censor anybody  who believes with believes the same thing he. believes. So, they got a they have a real problem.  It's a structural problem that I I don't I it's. easy to diagnose. I don't know how they fix it  because there are no Dick Garts walking around, right? Or Bill Clinton. Yeah. You know, right,  Senator, thank you very much for spending all this. time. The book is The Last Line of Defense: How  to Beat the Left in Court, which you have done. Thank you. Thanks for having me. [Music] So, it  turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show.

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