Dave Smith: Russia, Israel, Trump & the Swamp, Obama, and the Media Attacks on Joe Rogan

I mean it's a little weird for me. because you're a. Libertarian and in fact you could even. wind up on the libertarian ticket at. some point if not this psycho no but I'm. just saying it could happen right so. you're you're literally a. Libertarian and but for some reason we. have the same instincts on almost. everything I would say. um there are a lot of people in. conservative media who I always have. felt like I had a lot in common with and. now I don't and it's not because I've. gotten liberal I've gotten way less.

liberal I see them as way more liberal. so what like what happened to. conservative media not all of them I. have a million friends in it but like a. lot of the big names seem very liberal. to me yeah I mean I think that it's kind. of the same thing that happened to. Libertarians I think they're in. Washington DC and that's not where. you're supposed to be no that's right. and so the best like the best. libertarian uh organization in the world. is the Misa.

and it's based in Auburn and they. Alabama yeah they specifically put it. there because they like want no part of. Washington DC and then you see all of. the uh the you know KO and guys like. that who are based out of DC they get. very corrupted and they and you can look. at it it's like it's the same thing uh. we were just talking about Don Hugh. calling out Chris Matthews back in the. day they're having cocktail parties with. the FED chairman wait you're a. Libertarian you shouldn't be doing that. they're actually doing that yeah oh yeah. yeah yeah AB actually doing that and I.

think a lot of that's the same problem. with the kind of conservatism ink or. whatever they've been they've been. corrupted and power is seductive and I'm. sure you know that from like being in DC. for so many years that you I'm not. saying like you're kind of an anomaly. you think about all the people in. Washington DC and how much all of them. wanted to suck up to power almost right. like what 90 something percent at least. that's why they're there right and so. it's a it's a difficult thing to I. didn't get that for some reason for so.

long I was living in the middle of it I. don't know I'm not a super genius so I. didn't I didn't realize how corrupt it. was everyone always said it was corrupt. it felt like a really nice place to me I. raised all my kids there and but when. you realize how corrupt it is I mean. it's horrifying yeah but that's also I. think there's something like the uh the. the nature of conservatism or the. conservative movement in America has. always just been to lose like they're. it's like built into to them like every. generation just loses.

and then moves on to the next thing to. lose I like the the old right the um you. know Robert Taft right way they uh they. were largely in opposition to the New. Deal that was they were fighting back. against the FDR's New Deal were in. opposition to that and then you know you. cut forward uh 20 years and and it's FDR. Democrats are the new Republicans right. Ronald Reagan is like it's it's nobody. would dare question the New Deal and. then of course there was a movement.

pushing back against the Great Society. and and and now of course no. entitlements are like no one would ever. dare question Medicare or look just. recently I saw uh Donald Trump who's not. a traditional conservative but he did. the most traditional conservative thing. when he said uh he said when we get in. there again we are gonna fix. Obamacare and I'm like okay right right. so that's where we're at now right the. it's a no more repeal in you don't even. hear Republicans talk about it anymore. right so it's always like the next round.

of big government increases the next. round of centralized power in DC they. will put up a little fight they will. lose they will then a few years later. accept this as something that we is is. consensus amongst all of us but but you. see we're against whatever the next. thing is you know transing the kids or. you know student loan bailouts we're. against that now you know but they'll. lose and then eventually accept that why. why would you so that what does that. suggest about them they don't it's this. is a perform this is not sincere yeah I.

mean conservatives typically have played. the role of being against consolidating. Power in DC right um but that's you know. that's obviously that's going against. the wind not with it and so it's almost. like a it almost seems like a. professional wrestling thing where. they're like they're the ones who are. supposed to lose at the end of the day. they kind of say the right thing never. really mean it you know and then. ultimately.

acques I I have to say I was disgusted. by the lack of fight in a lot of. professional conservatives during covid. like disgusted by it you know Banning. freedom of movement freedom of speech. bodily autonomy like the whole thing was. like so mind-blowing to me if this. actually was the totalitarianism we've. been worried about or talking pretending. we're worried about for a long time it. came and a lot of them didn't say. anything about it but I was totally.

bewildered by the libertarian. response which was also kind of silent I. thought KO would be I don't know camped. out in front of the White House or the. CDC or like what what was that well it. shows you I mean it's um well just and. and because you use the word. totalitarian and I think sometimes when. you use that word it's it's perceived as. like being somewhat hyperbolic but it's. really like what else could describe. lockdowns that that is totalitarianism. you had American citizens turning on.

their TV every morning to find out from. their governor what they were allowed to. doday exct like I mean the most you. couldn't like the question was like can. I have a funeral for my dad and they're. like sorry no we've decided you can't. you know I mean like the most intimate. details yes Liberties that we would all. have taken for granted um and so okay to. your point right not only did. conservatives uh not fight against it I. think the majority of them cheered it on. or went along with it I noticed um and.

as far as the you know the point about. Libertarians there are kind of like. there are these moments um and I know. you experienced this a lot when you you. were on your fox show there are these. moments where there's like a storm where. there's something's like a white hot. issue you know and it becomes very easy. later after that passes to be on the. right side of that like everyone's on. the right side of Ira now you know what. I mean John McCain wrote in his Memoir. that Iraq was a mistake so even John M. pain could admit many years later but.

the thing is that didn't that doesn't. really matter as much as if you were. opposed to it when it was happen because. like in 2002 if you were like hey I. don't I don't think he has weapons of. mass destruction you were everybody knew. that well that just means you're a queer. basically you know and you hate your. country and you're weak and you're and. so you know there's there's little thing. you know the example I I like to use a. lot because I remember you broadcasting. through this so you'll remember it well. uh but was when um when Donald Trump. announced he was going to pull out of.

Syria and for like 2 weeks it was like. the Kurds remember we're abandoning the. Kurds but our allies the Kurds like by. the way if there's our ancient allies. the curs yes if there's one thing that. has been consistent in American foreign. policy in my lifetime is that we always. screw over the curds but for whatever a. state yeah I mean we uh George HW Bush. encouraged them to rise up and overthrow. Saddam Hussein and then went nah you. know I thought about it again I don't. think so just slaughtered all I mean you. know but why am I laughing it's such.

it's such a consistent theme well it's. we're not laughing plate of the curs. we're laughing at the hypocrisy of the. media but for like two weeks if anyone. said they wanted to you know they. supported Trump pulling out of Syria it. was like you're a bad person you hate. the Kurds by the way has anyone checked. in on the Kurds since then has the media. ever talked about them again like it. just it was totally just used in that Mo. and that's just a little example like. that's not the big one but like like our. our historic enemy is the houthis right. yes of course I remember growing up in. La Hoya in the' 70s heing about the. houth and my father said I just want you.

to grow strong and Resolute so we can. fight the houie hordes your one purpose. in life is to get strong enough to take. on these houth when the day comes and it. will where these houth challenge our. freedom you must be prepared right it's. a it's so ridiculous but like look I. remember so uh you I it was either in it. might have been April or May of 2020 but. I remember you covering on your show and. I also covered this on my podcast at the. time to a smaller audience but you.

covering the the lab leak you were like. hey this is a really like plausible. theory of where and in fact it it seems. to make a lot more sense cuz already. there was it's not that we had like um a. conclusive case that you could take to. court but there were like big pieces of. information that were really narrative. shattering like bats the bats weren't. close enough to wear the wet Market well. also a wet Market is a seafood market so. why were they selling mammals in a. seafood market Pengalin and bats and. then was a group of Chinese researchers.

who in December and January of 2020. wrote this paper and said no we think. this was a lab leak and then they all. disappeared that was on the internet. there were like four scientists from the. lab that were hospitalized in November. with covid like symptoms and you were. like that's I don't know my eyebrow is. Raising as yours not raising you know. but at the time this was and I know you. were aware of this this was a crazy. controversial thing to say you were what. racist.

somehow it's more racist to think that. the Chinese had like a a lab than to. think they were like biting bat heads. off or something like it's so bizar but. by the way now as I say this to you now. this is not controversial at all this. isn't a white hot issue it was then but. it's not now and so a lot of a lot of. just what back to your original point. about like the Libertarians who failed. on the job a lot of it is simply comes. down to be a matter of Courage it's just. a matter of like hey when the issue that.

might make everyone hate you and all of. the powerful people call you the worst. names which naturally human beings have. a tendency to not want that we don't. want to be ostracized you don't want to. be called these names some people just. kind of have this personality trait and. this isn't like whether you're on the. left or right it's something that you. have it's something I have it's. something uh um Alex baronson has that. he's kind of like I don't care I'll say. it right now when it's going to get me. called all of these it really I remember. about 15 years ago it was in July why. and I was in Maine and I my kids were.

playing on the dock and it was like the. happiest day you know it was like. perfect Bluebird day the sound of. laughter of children it was like just I. was like oh I was in such a good mood. and I was looking at my kids and sort of. walking along and I stepped on a. beehive and a whole swarm of bees flew. up my shorts and just attacked me in my. nether regions and I went in about no. exaggeration 10 seconds from being. Placid and happy to being in agony and.

on fire and I jumped in the lake wrecked. my cell phone that is the experience of. these hysterical moments right all of a. sudden it's like being stung by a swarm. everybody's against you everybody's. saying exactly the same thing you go. from like Placid happy Cal clear. thinking to totally unable to think. clearly and on all these issues the day. Nal died in custody Russian custody it's. like we decide of course Putin killed. him or whatever and to be able to see. and think clearly in that moment like. that's the key right there when you're.

getting swarmed you may have come to the. obvious conclusion that the real debate. is not between Republican and Democrat. or socialist and capitalist right left. the real battle is between people who. are lying on purpose and people who are. trying to tell you the truth it's. between good and evil it's between. honesty and falsehood and we hope we are. on the former side that's why he created. this network the Tucker Carlson Network. and we invite you to subscribe to it you. go to Tucker Carlson /p podcast our.

entire archive is there a lot of behind. the-scenes footage of what actually. happens in this Barn uh when only an. iPhone is running Tucker carlson.com. podcast you will not regret it who is. the guy um who is the uh he was the. science editor for the New York Times at. Wade Nicholas Wade Wade right I mean. that guy was like nature and and you. know like all of the biggest scientific. Publications was the New York Times guy. and it like that like that you're done.

RAC it's not just RAC it's not just like. oh you lose your job or something like. that it's like you we're going to smear. you in the most vicious ways to like all. of these and and we're social creatures. we're we naturally respond to that but. but how does that happen like you've. watched this carefully how I mean it's. speaking of bees it is the hive mind at. work but it's it's. so like perfectly and like with great. discipline executed it's like in a space.

of 4 hours the entire machine turns on. one guy and destroys them like how what. is you can see why people come up with. conspiracies to explain that right sure. yeah and and they are quite possibly. right I mean I don't know exactly what. the conspiracy is but I it is quite. possibly is one um but no dissent at all. yeah but then I my thing is just that I. do think and I think this is something. I've benefited from I know this cuz I. hear this back from my audience a lot.

that it's like oh when you were right on. those issues when it really mattered you. kind of gain credibility and I also. think that like you know let's say. there's like um I don't know like a a. right-wing or conservative uh um. commentator who's telling you how you. have to feel about the new storm right. now it's like well just tell me how did. you do on the last three storms you know. like like were you were you telling. dopes to get the vaccine were you. telling everyone to be socially.

distanced or were you like on the right. side of that where were you on Ukraine. you know were you saying that like oh. you know like they can win or whatever. the story is you know what I mean like. it's and and I do watch a lot of people. who go like got everything consistently. wrong it's the same way is the. neoconservatives right like even if I. mean I I hate them so much I it's hard. to uh speak about them like with any. type of sense of fairness but how do you. listen let's just say you got six Wars. wrong. and you were wrong about every single.

one like let's just say you were for the. war in Iraq and then you were for you. know regime change in Afghanistan. against the Taliban who did not attack. us um and then you were for overthrowing. Gaddafi and then you were for. overthrowing Assad and then you were. forb backing the Saudi war in Yemen and. like all these things and and it's just. nothing but disaster every one of them. okay but then you're going to come out. and confidently be like and I'm for this. next war and let me tell you why you. have to be too and you don't have like. enough just like you don't feel.

humiliated enough that like you couldn't. come out even if you were for this you'd. be like man I really think we should. fight this war but I can't come out and. say we should fight this war because the. last six times I said it it was nothing. but a disaster you know but the same. people who were like you see Tucker when. we overthrow Saddam Hussein democracy. will sweep the region and you see we're. going to be greeted as liberators we. won't be fighting off a 20-year. Insurgency you see they'll greet us as. liberators because they love us and then. democracy will sweep the region and then. Iran will lose influence in the region. and then Hezbollah will start being nice.

to Israel and like all these Grand. predictions and every last one of them. oh it'll be paid for in oil you remember. all the things they used to say I mean. it's um it's you know it's a cakewalk. it's a it's a slam dunk that he has. weapons of mass destruction so every. single one of these things you were. wrong about you get to now be the person. advocating the next one but you wouldn't. ever allow that kind of behavior in your. children you can't let a lie stand kids. lie you catch them lying and the whole. point the exercises to get them to admit.

to your face yes I did this no I won't. do it again like that's a that's an. integral step right you have to go. through that or else you don't improve. as a person you become shittier as a. person yeah that's right and I would. also maybe this is me adding my. libertarian bent to this but I would. also say that in the in the private. sector and I mean not like the crony. connected to government private sector. but like in true business you also don't. get away with that stuff you can't just. fail over and over again and then move. only happens either in the government or.

in you know companies that are. essentially the government but you know. like live off no big government. contracts or something like that um but. yeah it's it's a and it's it's the major. problem is that look like at least there. are problems with free markets and. they're it's made up of human beings so. there's always problems but there's at. least like a cleansing mechanism there's. like profit and loss if you lose too. much you go out of business in in with. government the the worse you do the more.

funding you get but so this is if the. kids can't read we need a higher. education I completely agree with you. and for all I piss on Libertarians and. of course I was one for most of my life. I'm going to bring it back give me time. well no it's it's just interesting I. think the reason I'm mad at Libertarians. is because I don't see a free market in. the United States oh of course not yeah. right and so I mean I look at green. energy or the defense space and like. there's that that bears no resemblance.

to a market at all well and and a lot of. Finance yes but I would also point out. that like look there are just like with. every group just like conservatives. there are different camps within. Libertarians so just to point like the. thing I said about the last five storms. if you go listen to what Ron Paul was. saying throughout the entire Co he was. perfect Tom Woods Lou Rockwell Jeff dice. like there's there's this group of. Libertarians who were great the entire. time well I totally agree I've never. stopped loving run so so the difference. between say like the Ron Paul the Ron.

paulan Libertarians which I would. consider myself to be one of and say. like the KO or or groups like that is. that uh those the the K types tend to. like almost have this academic. discussion of what it would be like in a. free market and then talk as if that's. what we're living in right now but that. you know I mean I was a fellow at Ko so. I remember this very well that. organization that Foundation 51 C3 is. run by an oligarch actually yeah it's.

run by Charles KO I mean right so he. kicked out the old head he brought in. the new head and you sort of wonder if. you're a. Libertarian it you can't you're not for. the you're not for government power but. you're also suspicious of oligarchs. right aren't you well of course and. particularly like say the same oligarch. who's not only funding the KO Institute. but is also funding the Republican party. in general and the the party who. consistently is growing the size of. government every as much as the. Democrats are I mean it's like you know.

it's it's become a thing where if a. republican were to ever say uh you know. say we need smaller government or like. Nikki Haley was talking about smaller. government you just roll your eye. because it never means anything they. they've been talking about this forever. there's never been one time and there's. been several times in my life where the. Republicans have controlled the Congress. and the the White House never once been. a cut and spending of course spending. always goes up there's been some Cuts in. top marginal tax rates you know not even. drastic Cuts but there been yes we'll.

have rich people pay less taxes there's. never a cut in spending there because. that's a cut in the power of the federal. government and they're not for that and. so the if the guys who are funding that. are also funding this libertarian. Institute to write policy paper for. recommendations that are never going to. be implemented anyway it's it does raise. some eyebrows I I would say like look to. to the bigger question of of you know. Libertarians in the S like like I've.

heard you say before the the US federal. government is the biggest most powerful. government in the history of the world. by far there's not a close second it's a. government that can snap its fingers and. overthrow regimes anywhere in the world. and does it regularly um and so that is. look as the country is kind of spinning. out of control and everything has just. gotten more and more corrupt that's. directly related to the fact that DC's. gotten more and more powerful and this. is to me like I've I've been saying this.

for a while it's not my original thought. this is something Hans Herman HOA said. back in the 9s um where he he basically. said that Libertarians need to learn a. conservative lesson and conservatives. need to learn a Libertarian lesson and. what he meant by that was that. Libertarians basically need to learn. that okay just because we might believe. that the government ought to not bash. someone over the head and lock them in a. cage for doing something doesn't mean we. have to celebrate it you don't have to. celebrate degeneracy you don't have to.

be on the side of that in fact a. functioning Society needs good family. values and that's just like a fact now. that doesn't we don't believe that. should be enforced at the point of a gun. but we that doesn't mean like you know. like even if you think say like um. whatever you think prostitution should. be legal you could still have a feeling. that it's horrible and represents a a. tragedy on all sides um and so that's. like kind of the the conservative lesson. that Libertarians need to learn I think. a lot of Libertarians in the Ron Paul.

kind of school did learn that um and the. lesson that I would say that. conservatives or or trumpy and populist. types need to learn is that if Donald. Trump's going to say drain the swamp. it's like okay but what does that mean. like what what does that look like how. do you actually drain the swamp and it's. really actually very simple it means cut. government spending as long as. Washington DC is the most powerful. organization in the history of the world. and they're spending over $6 trillion a. year that is by definition a swamp. that's why more millionaires live in the.

suburbs outside of Washington DC than. anywhere else in the world they don't. make anything except weapons you know. what I mean that are purchased by the. government it's I've know I've heard you. talk about this before they don't even. make them there right right I mean. there's no there's not a single Act of. Creation yeah in the entire DC the DMV. as they call it right well no and it's. it's literally not only are they not. creating but they're parasitic by Nature. they're taking Americans money and this.

is what I mean I think this is kind of. the central source of why the country is. spending out of control and why we're uh. so incredibly corrupt at every level is. because there is this parasitic force in. Washington DC that's grown bigger and. bigger and more power I absolutely agree. with that and I I do think I saw it. change I remember the moment it changed. and it was the moment when the. Democratic party sub Ed the business the.

so-called business Community which was. always a kind of counterbalance against. this cu the idea was the government. makes it actually harder for people to. conduct business it stifles free markets. and we're against that so the Chamber of. Commerce and business round table were. always sort of pushing back against the. growth of government Bill Clinton. changed that and he changed that by. declaring a ceasefire between the. Democratic party and the rich and he did. it during the tech boom on never forget. this Democrats were always saying and I.

thought you know I didn't agree with. them but I sort of thought it was. important for the purpose of balance to. have this they would say they were. suspicious of people had too much money. that's too much power like what about. the value of Labor right you go the. value of capital the value of Labor. they're kind of In conflict with one. another and we're on the side of Labor. all of a sudden Bill Clinton's like no. there's nothing wrong with being you. know making a billion dollars at 32 for. creating an app you know running web van. or ET toys or pets.com. door knobs.com it just it was just.

everything you could think of totally. and it was so smart he did it for the. purpose of fundraising and all of a. sudden the Democratic party became far. richer than the Republican party and all. the formerly Republican leafy suburbs. around the country you know Greenwich. Connecticut and McAn Virginia they all. went left actually it was brilliant and. evil but its effect was to completely. wreck the country because there was no. counterbalance against Power at all so. once the government you know the people.

with the nuclear weapons and business. the people with the largest bank. accounts are. aligned that leaves everybody else like. who's defending them yeah and then you. said something last night when we were. having dinner that I thought was so. interesting I was thinking about it. after we left but you were talking about. how like traditionally the rich people. were in suits and ties yes right and. your uniform matters I mean that's why. we have uniforms that's why the bus. driver wears a uniform and your airline. pilots have their stupid outfits and. your your stewardesses are dressed up.

like they are because it says a lot. about their role in your society and. rich people used to spend a lot of money. on clothes and the whole point of that. was to say we're rich we're in a. separate class and that comes with tons. of advantages but it also comes with. obligations no bless obl was a thing and. all of a sudden in the 90s you notice. the richest people in America start. dressing you know in like t-shirts and. hoodies and like what's the message of. that and the message of that is we're. just like you which is another way of. saying we have no obligation to anyone.

but ourselves actually we don't owe you. anything and it comes out of this. mindset that they do have and I know. them of course well so I know that they. feel this way that we're the we're the. richest because we came up through this. credentialing system that we claim as a. meritocracy and we won we won all the. prizes cuz we're Superior it's it's. something it's so fascinating I. literally this is why I don't like chess. and why I prefer B gamon Because back. gamon has probably 30 or 40% of a luck. El El to it just like life right right.

just like life like why didn't I get. leukemia diet five tons of 5-year-olds. do I don't know but I should be grateful. for that so like I've been relatively. successful in my stupid little category. that's not all my doing like show some. be magnanimous about it well this is why. I was thinking about that because I. think it's such a good point because. there is something kind of. counterintuitive to it where you'd be. like oh but if they're dressing like the. people then maybe they'd feel more. connected to the people but in fact it's. actually the opposite because it is it. reminds me in a way this is what I was. thinking about literally last night in.

my hotel I was thinking about you making. this comment and it was reminding me of. um when the lockdowns first started and. um there there were all the celebrities. would come on and be like we're all in. this together and you're like Ellen. degenerous you're in a mansion you're. not in the same situation as a guy. there's a guy out there who's got three. kids and makes 60k a year and he's was. just deemed non-essential and he is like. terrified about the future of how he's. going to support his family and Ellen's.

sitting here and her message is we're. all in the same boat man you know like. we're all in the same I know one of my. servants got Co and couldn't come in. today so I only had a team of five you. know and you're like so in a sense. you're like while the message is we're. all in this together and that kind of. superficially sounds like a nice message. it's actually the the worst message the. a much a much better message would be to. acknowledge that I'm not in the. situation that you're in at all that for. me it's actually. if you're in the leadership class you.

have and I I I mean I've been in it my. whole life I know you have a moral. obligation to admit it yes because once. you admit it out loud then you realize. there are you know massive benefits to. it but there are also massive. obligations to it they're shering their. Duty that's right that's what they're. actually doing and that's and that's. actually the opposite of being Noble. that's it's it's. fraudulent it's disgusting yes and it's. it's a lie your your whole thing is. Sam bankman freed right oh I just drive.

like a shitty little Toyota it's like oh. actually you're defrauding Michelle. Obama goes to Princeton for free yeah. and it's been the ruling class her whole. life yeah and she's still lecturing you. about how she's a victim of racism. Hillary Clinton exact same thing goes to. Welsley spends her entire life in the. ruling class and she's still whining. about how she's discriminated against. why are they doing that yeah and did you. you ever see um they'll have like. pictures of uh um side by side but it'll. be like pictures of like Jimmy Carter's. house and Obama's house and it that.

totally represents something about the. like corroding of our soul that you're. like we would allow people who call. themselves public servants which of. course is ridiculous they're not but but. still they don't even have to pretend to. keep up a facade of that like you get to. live in this insane like Mansion off. what because you were president and you. get to cash in on that now in a white. neighborhood you should be required to. live in the hood if you're if you're. Obama and if you're using that card you.

used that card you the only reason you. got elected was because of your race you. spent your entire 8 years inflaming race. haate in our country and then you go to. Martha's Vineyard the whitest zip code. in the world not allowed you're not. allowed to do that well it also I mean. it did it did so much damage his. inflaming racial hatred and and I'll say. after you know Barack Obama's campaign. in 2008 there first of all it was a just. leaving how you feel about the guy aside. it was a an amazing campaign it was.

unlike anything that had ever been run. beforei yes it was totally brilliant it. was um his now of course it wasn't what. they presented it as it wasn't like a. Grassroots campaign it was he was. approved of by the powers that big he he. he didn't just happen to as a junior. Senator get like a prime time speaking. slot in 2004 where he gave that speech. he wasn't even a senator yet was he a. state senator still at the time I that's. when I first met Barack Obama walking. down the street smoking a cigarette in.

Boston on my way to dinner at the Palm. I'll never forget it and I met him and. Jesse Jackson J they pulled over to say. hi to me really I'd never heard his name. and I covered politics for a living. right and he gave the keynote at the end. of that week that was Sunday night he. spoke on Thursday and yeah he was not a. US senator that was that was the. campaign it was great it was absolutely. so C okay so it was clearly kind of. orchestrated by some powerful by prin. family of course his but listen his the. speeches that he gave and much of the. message first off I actually there's. probably a lot of things that I would.

have agreed with him that he was running. on um I agreed with a lot of things. George W bush ran on in the year 200. turned around it didn't govern like that. at all let let's sort of like elect the. black guy and get past the race stuff I. loved that well especially because that. was his message that was his message. let's get past the race I love that he. go oh and and even and there was a. broader more unifying thing I mean I. remember the cuz he was such a powerful. you know like public speaker I mean he. never really said anything. but it it would still be beautiful the.

you know I remember in his uh acceptance. speech at 2008 at the DNC we had this. whole line where he was like uh he was. like I love this country and so do you. and so does John McCain the men and. women who have fought for this country. have been Republicans and Democrats and. independents but they fought together. and died together not defending a red. America or a blue America the United. States of America and then it's like oh. what I mean he didn't really say. anything there but you know but it was. beautifully put. yeah the message was great and and look.

he also was uh very critical of the. George W bush administration's excesses. and I'm going to end the war in Iraq I'm. goingon to reinstitute habus Corpus. we're going to end torture we're g there. were a lot of he didn't do any of that. um I mean I guess he ended the war to. durq eventually and then reinvaded the. country because the the Isis Fighters he. was arming invaded the country it's but. but then I think essentially what. happened uh and it was around Obama's. reelection campaign this is where things. really went off the rails in this. country was that he got in there and.

continued and expanded all the worst of. the Bush policies of and so they almost. had nothing to run on and so they. decided to Pivot to a culture War. instead and this is this was a decision. and again I don't know exactly what the. conspiracy is but this decision was made. from the top down that I think it was a. response to Obama's failures it was a. response to these movements like the tea. party and Occupy Wall Street which were. getting a little bit too close a little. bit close to the Target and all this you. know I'm sure you've looked at this.

before but where there's these Nexus. charts and you can chart out like um how. many times all the woke terms are used. you know transgenderism all that and. it's all like right around 2012 that. it's all a sudden like you know uh. systemic racism goes from being. mentioned like this many times. throughout history to like shooting up. like The New York Times And The. Washington Post it's a very famous graph. and I've used it many times and trying. to explain this but that's exactly right. like fight amongst yourselves yep that's. I think it was the fin it was The. Hangover from from the financial crisis. yeah well that was a huge part of it for.

sure um and also that Obama's um you. know like so in the year like from 2007. to. 2010 um the the median net worth in. America shrunk by like 40% like people. lost like 40% of American Wealth was. lost um and you know you can imagine. especially now like having kids you know. at the time I didn't have kids and I I. was young I was like whatever you know. bad economy and that sucks but you can. appreciate now like oh what that would. be like if you just lost 40% of your net.

worth and you got little kids like how. destabilizing that is and Obama's. solution to this right the Obama. recovery was uh okay it was record high. government spending and record low. interest rates this was right this was. the solution was this is how we're going. to save the economy we're going to bring. interest rates down to zero and so we're. going to bring government spending. higher than it's ever been before at. that time and so what so you can say on. paper there's a little bit of a recovery. here but what really happens in that. environment you know it's like all the. politically connected people in.

Washington DC they make more money and. the speculators have a field day because. now everybody in wall Street's making. more money because you have to invest. now right because you're losing money if. if you just save and so this this. ultimately is what built then they throw. the culture war in there to like you. said fight amongst yourselves and the. result of that was Donald Trump the. result of all of that was the the. condition for Trump zero interest rates. that had a greater I think negative. effect on the country than any War we've. ever fought it for one thing it just.

asset prices ballooned yeah I mean this. is fake everyone knows what happens over. time uh with free money the money. becomes worth less and so there's a rush. to assets and now you can't buy a house. right that's right and then and then the. Boom is always followed by the bust and. so you you have all of this. malinvestment because the like the way. it works and this is this is where. Austrian economics which I heard you. dispar no I have never disparaged I'm. just mad about the results but it's not. a result of Austrian economics or.

libertarianism it's a result of. abandoning all of that right so it's but. look the the basic thing is that like. interest rates are a price they're a. price just like anything else it's the. price of money it's the price of. borrowing money and so just like every. other price there's information given in. these prices so if if steel becomes very. very cheap that's gives information to a. businessman that like Hey we're. producing a lot of Steel very easily now. if you to do a project that requires a. lot of Steel Now's the Time to do it.

because we're producing steel now that. works when you have real prices because. oh there's a big production of Steel so. you can bu but if if the government just. came in and said you know we had price. controls and we insist that the price of. steel is very very cheap what's going to. happen is people are going to start. building projects with steel and then. realize we're out of steel pretty soon. because it wasn't a real signal so what. happens when you when you make interest. rates zero for a decade it's a signal. for people to say borrow money when they.

wouldn't have otherwise borrowed like. maybe you wouldn't borrow if rates were. 8 or 9% but at zero this is a good time. to borrow this money but again it's a. fake signal we're borrowing all this. money and maybe I am a Libertarian. because I I got all kinds of advice from. I'm not sophisticated at all with money. but all kinds of advice borrow money. it's free and I never did yes not $1. yeah it's a really bad idea um I I feel. like the amount of debt that people. carry is the untold story in the United. States yeah and I don't know why we're.

like in favor of the credit card. companies or people are getting rich. from the it's just bad having a lot of. debt is bad I don't know why that's like. if you say that by the way that's. considered super radical but like I. don't why is that radical well yeah I. think about the idea that we have all of. these policies designed to get people to. gamble their life savings like why. woulded for not carrying debt when I. made money in not that long ago when I. was like finally could pay off my the. first thing I was pay off my mortgage. that's the first thing I did and my.

college roommate who's really much. smarter than I am has made a ton of. money he's like that's crazy you have to. pay I forgot what it was but like you. lose the the tax shield and it was like. 18 Grand I had to pay $18,000 a year for. the privilege of not being in debt right. to a bank yeah what yeah and and that. the system is like artificially designed. to be that way you know what I mean that. it's like oh these are the tax laws that. will encourage people and also wait. you're you're penalizing me for not. being in debt like that's who wrote.

these laws look think about just think. about what the income tax is they. penalize you for working I mean it's a. crime to work the punishment is a fee. the more the more productive you are the. more punishment you get so let me ask. you this question as an Austrian. economic Economist why why the disparity. between um the tax on labor and the tax. on Capital well because that's the rules. that the government made so well well. let me say right cuz I think you're. totally right about this right that it's. like look I I've heard you talk about.

this before so like if the capital gains. tax is 15% but then someone working pays. 30% so like what are you saying we would. rather but so here's the next level to. that this is all I think that you're. missing in that because I think you're. completely right in your like your your. critique of that but okay so if we were. let's say to fix that that disparity. there's basically two ways we could do. that one would be to raise capital gains. taxes up to 30% Okay so so the result of. that would be that I guess we would.

disincentivize certain types of. investment maybe the government let's. say it works out perfectly and these we. we are able you know like the the people. on Wall Street don't have an army of tax. loyers and accountants who can get them. out of this stuff as they always end up. doing um so then DC gets more money so. then the corrupt most powerful. government in the world gets a little. bit more money they will then leverage. that to borrow three times as much and. just more it will go it will go to.

politically connected cronies right. it'll be however let's say the other. option to that is we could lower. individual taxes to 15% and now give. every working uh family in this country. a huge raise a huge raise that they. would really apprciate so that's all I'm. saying you're right about the. discrepancy there and it's totally. corrupt but it's like what what's the. solution to that the solution is look if. you tied them to legislatively and just. said but you know they're going to be. the same the tax on Capital will always.

be the the same as the tax on labor then. the average person and which includes me. I don't have any Investments I just work. on my salary right so like most people. um the average person would benefit from. the lobbying power of Wall Street right. right so right so they're always going. to be the same but like all of a sudden. I have an army of Bank lobbyists and. private Equity lobbyists keeping my. income taxes low yes look in theory I. would love that idea it's just if the. the answer there is to just like you.

know R it's unbelievable to me that. particularly like people like um you. know like Bernie Sanders types will say. that they care so much about working. people and they want to do whatever they. can to help these working people and yet. the biggest bill for working people is. their federal income taxes and and it. and I mean the IRS I mean I know stories. from good friends of mine they are. ruthless I mean they go back years and. ruin people and this isn't just like.

it's like people kind of have this idea. that there's like economic issues over. here and social issues over here as if. they're different but they're really not. I mean you go back 20 years on somebody. and say you know a guy who's making 30. grand a year and they go back and maybe. it's only just like you know a few. thousand dollar a year that he owes but. they go back 20 years on you and you owe. three grand a year and so now you owe. $60,000 oh yeah you know what I mean. this is what leads to divorces and. people putting pistols in their mouth. yeah you know kids growing up their dad. around I mean it's like these things are. interconnected and you see that just.

over the last few years um with the. price inflation how bad it's been I mean. like this this ruins people so why isn't. that a news story I don't understand if. everybody I mean and I will say you know. because of my age and income I'm a. little cut off but I try not to be cut. off and people I talk to they all. complain about grocery store prices yeah. like a lot and they're shocking but I. never hear anybody say that in the media. well I mean I certainly talk about it a. lot I think that there's. um it's not it's a it's not in anybody's.

interest I guess like it's not in in any. partisan interest to really talk about. that because both parties are totally. complicit and so it's you know no matter. who you know people because we live in. this weird like two-party system and. everybody becomes partisans especially. in an election year and they're all just. trying to kind of get their guy over and. no one's really you know I mean there. are Trump supporters who like to talk. about the inflation under Obama but I. don't really want to talk about it too.

much because it all started with the. money that was being printed in 2020. Donald Trump was championing the whole. time and actually and and and smearing. Thomas Massie for for daring to say hey. we should have a vote on this before we. spend more money than we've ever spent. when we're Broker Than we've ever been. and he's and Trump of course bragging. that it was the the biggest bill you. know cuz it's so Trump he goes it's the. biggest he goes a lot of other people. had spending bills mine's the biggest. spending bill you know like look I not. trying to you know there are Trump is. like the most entertaining uh character.

and he's hated by all of the right. people and a lot of his instincts are. correct and he was also framed for. treason by his own intelligence agencies. and so there's a lot of of Donald Trump. that I can sympathize with and relate to. his supporters but the truth is that it. was such a disas to lock down the. economy and to say we're just going to. print our way out of this was such a. disaster agree and he totally got rolled. by all the people around him and just. did not have the wisdom or the courage.

to stand up to them and he kept fouchy. on that task force through all of 2020 I. mean he just kept so many people who. hated his guts around him um and it's. really it it was a tragedy Nikki Haley. Mike Pompeo Mike Pence yeah no I agree I. mean all of them you know Mike Pence is. a guy he was in his 60s and if he were. to go this is the guy who he was going. to leave us as president of the United. States it's Mike Pence there's something.

there's something wrong with him yeah. there's there's a lot wrong with him you. can feel it I really appreciate you. ruining his political career no it. wasn't personal I mean I feel sorry for. Pence he's not comfortable with himself. at all uh and that's the vibe the strong. I've known him for over I've known him. 25 years I known him since he got to. Washington um and he's got some talent. and I don't think he's evil or anything. but there's something really damaged and. I always felt that he was put in there. um he wouldn't be the first VP to be in. this position but he was put in there by. permanent DC to keep an eye on Trump.

yeah obviously yeah yeah but that's. always how it works right like that's. the same thing that happened with Reagan. and George HW Bush being there you put. in the guy we're going to have our CIA. directoral Ford I mean this is like this. is the oldest story there is so Trump is. coming to the libertarian convention. yeah so let me just ask at the outset. you're you're involved in libertarian. politics like actual polit Party. politics um would you ever be on the. ticket. you know so just for people who don't.

know it's kind of like inside baseball. but so my there was kind of a a civil. war it's more inside baseball is too. broad it's more like inside pickle ball. yes yes that is actually a really good. uh thing but in this very irrelevant. corner where I have a lot of sweat um. but so there was basically like a a kind. of Civil War within the libertarian. party over the last few years and it was. about a lot of the stuff that you were. talking about at the beginning like uh. basically there was like you know as you. know cuz you covered it there was what.

was called The Ron Paul Revolution and. that's what I was I was one of the young. people in that Ron Paul Revolution that. totally changed you know the way I look. at the world and I became obsessed with. all of this stuff and so there were a. bunch of us and a lot of us had hoped. that um Rand Paul was kind of gonna. carry the mantle and continue this this. Ron Paul energy and no I'm not saying. anything against ran Paul I think he's. one of the best Senator probably the. best Senator he was great during Co. grilling f and all that stuff but for. whatever reason there's there's several.

it didn't work out that way and Donald. Trump came in and stole the Republican. party and it stole I mean he won it but. anyway so when that happened um there. were a lot of us who were like kind of. disappointed about ran Paul and then the. we had Ron Paul running in the. Republican party but then a lot of us. started looking to the libertarian party. like oh they were the Third Party. candidate and they ran Gary Johnson and. Bill weld we were very disappointed with. that campaign uh particularly with Bill. weld who's just horrible um sad defeated. guy and and also just he was like a Ron.

lobbyist he was like what are you doing. over what's the point if we're going to. have a third party and putting that guy. up and then during uh. 2020 the people who were running the. libertarian party completely failed and. didn't oppose the lockdowns and and then. started like virtue signaling during the. black lives matter riots about how we. must be anti-racist for real yeah it was. horrible so basically then there was. this uh group called The mis's caucus uh. that I joined was led by this guy named. Michael heis and Angela mcardell who.

ultimately is she's currently the chair. of the party and we basically went and. took over the whole party we f for in. the name of Ron paans like if there's. going to be a Libertarian party it's. going to be represented by Libertarians. and so anyway cutting to so once that. happened it was kind of my group who. took over and they they wanted me to run. for for president on the libertarian. ticket and I was considering it for a. while ultimately it just wasn't the. right time for me I got two little kids. I got a lot going on in my career it's. like it just wasn't the right time for.

me but so now to what you're said Angela. Mardo P pulled this off to her great. credit that she's got Donald Trump. coming and speaking at the libertarian. uh National Convention uh it looks like. RFK junor where is this this is at the. end of the month it's uh May May 24th. through 26th I believe in Washington in. Washington DC that was a decision made. by the old guard we would not have had. our convention in Washington DC do you. know where it is in DC. yeah it's at um like at some Hotel I I.

I'd have to look it up but yeah it's at. some hotel in in DC um but anyway I mean. RFK just challenged Donald Trump to. debate him there which I don't think is. going to happen but would be very. interesting if if it did happen and so. it is at at least to me it kind of. represents the libertarian party who is. is this third party trying to engage in. relevance of of some sort and trying to. at least look obviously we're not in a. position we're not going to win the. White House or even win any Senate seats.

or anything like that but I do think the. libertarian party could effectively be. used to put pressure uh particularly on. the Republicans to be better and to not. run like awful neocons and run better. candidates um I certainly prefer the. kind of America First strain of. Republicans to The neoconservative. Strain and and I think right now there. is well I mean there's kind of been a. civil war in the right half of America. since Donald Trump came onto the scene.

but I don't even know if you'd call it a. civil war cuz Donald Trump just won so. dominantly you know it's not like the. Republicans were split between Jeb Bush. and Donald Trump or something like no. like it was 95 to 5% but particularly. and I know you've talked about this a. lot since the the war in Israel or I. should say the war in Gaza or I don't. even know if I should say the war the. the attack of Gaza whatever you call it. I don't know if you can call it a war. when one side doesn't have a military. but whatever you call that um since that. you've seen this kind of divide grow uh.

where I think largely. neoconservatism had been rejected in by. the by the voters by Republican voters. but when Israel came up it's a little. bit different I I don't know exactly NE. conservatism neoconservatism is like. chickenpox like you think you defeat it. and then when you're defenses are down. it comes back as shingles you're like oh. crap they're Democrats now Jesus no. it just lays dormant it's always there.

and but when it comes back in its second. iteration when it manifests again it is. disabling and that's what we're watching. like I If there's one thing I wanted to. help do is get rid of that worldview but. it seems stronger than ever well I think. you have done a lot I mean I I really. not really I mean if you can it's like. everybody in the Republican party is. completely on board with the idea that. Wars non-essential Wars make America. better or something I that's so nuts. it's what's what's so wild to me about.

it is just after the 20 years of Terror. Wars that have just been such a complete. disaster that America would still be. entering these conflicts that are very. clearly Wars of choice like there's no I. mean I I'm I know they can make an. argument like they were making the. argument that Putin if he takes Ukraine. is going to take Poland and then is. going to take which is nothing he's ever. said he there's not one thing Putin's. ever said that you could point to In. fact when you interviewed himly said if. Poland attacks us that's the only.

scenario I got the largest country in. the world it's the biggest land mass on. planet Earth it's incredibly complex to. run it's 20% Muslim they have all these. sort of semi-autonomous zones throughout. the he wants more land I don't think he. wants more land no look he's always said. insane it's been very and it's not just. that he's said it but like almost. everyone who was being honest has said. it at the top levels of the American. government as well as at NATO as his ISS. is was Ukrainian entry into NATO that. was always his issue and we kept pushing.

that and kept pushing that and that's. what got him to react and even the head. of NATO himself Stenberg whatever said. that Vladimir Putin said that if you. just signed a deal put it in writing. that Ukraine won't join NATO I won't. invade and NATO refused and so he. invaded But is there a single news story. even now that doesn't describe. reflexively describe almost like it's. like a block text in you know in the in. the computer program the unprovoked. invasion of Ukraine right they always. have to say that unpr there's never been.

a more provoked Invasion well I mean. they did it on purpose they push Russia. to invade Ukraine let's just say I mean. like let's say we had um like a a fairly. Pro American government in Mexico that. um and Russia wanted to get them to do. an economic deal with them and then we. were trying to convince them not to do. that economic deal but to do an economic. deal with us and ultimately we convince. them that they're going to be in an. economic partnership with us and so then. Russia came in and overthrew the. democratically elected government and.

installed a pro-russian government and. then that led to a civil war where. 15,000 people died and like the. pro-american side was get you know what. I mean like would you go we it was so. unprovoked like yeah and then and then. Russia said we're going to get Mexico to. join our defense Alliance and we're. going to put. missiles right and no by the way that. had been floated out for years and in. fact in 2008 we had formally announced. that that Russia had formerly announced. that Mexico would be joining their. military Alliance then we went I'm sorry.

for people out there you're right it was. a totally organic Uprising maid on. Revolution it's Victoria nuland happened. to be in the middle of handing out. sandwiches that don't let that you know. like John McCain and they were going. there a lot and like yeah sure it was. Soros backed NOS that were funded but. whatever that's a it totally organic. movement you know um and so yeah no it. was a a series of provocations very. unnecessary ones and not just like not. just ones that like libertarian doves.

like me or something like that were. against but that what George Kennan uh. the cold warrior right the the founder. of the containment strategy what he said. which is a great piece with him and. Thomas fredman in the New York Times and. I think it was in 1999 and he laid it. out right there when we first started. the first round of NATO expansion and he. said the people advocating this. expansion are going to keep advocating. it until there's a Russian uh response. and then when there's that response. they'll say see this is why we were to. to expand NATO Obama even.

made noises that suggested he understood. what you just said yes well he refused. to send weapons in to Ukraine I mean he. was you know he was there when the. government when yanukovich was. overthrown but he wouldn't send the. weapons in then Trump ultimately did and. I think you know I think my you know. like that was the big Scandal about. Ukraine gate right was that uh Donald. Trump kind of did this you know kind of. like a very trumpian kind of gray area. thing where he's like you know I'd. really like you to investigate the. bidens maybe you don't get these weapons.

if you don't investigate the bidens now. you the reason why that was so. ridiculous to impeach him over was. because it was totally legitimate to. want to investigate what the bidens were. doing in there by the were very corrupt. involvement in Ukraine but that being. said what no one ever talked about in. the story was that Trump caved of course. didn't get the Biden investigation and. gave them the weapons and like that. never that was the other reason why the. impeachment was so ridiculous because. there's no PR quid proquo when you don't. get anything for anything you know what. I mean like you could argue it was an.

attempted quidd proquo you know what I. mean but he never got anything but he. sent the weapons in and I do think part. of this and this was the really you know. effective the way that the intelligence. agencies really won was that because a. lot of people would look at it like okay. so the the Russia gate was an attempted. deep State coup and essentially it was I. mean uh Andrew McCabe admitted on six. minutes that they debated at the justice. department invoking the 25th Amendment.

then they ultimately settled on a. special prosecutor you know I mean like. they were trying to overthrow the guy. but so on the surface you could say oh. it failed it failed but you know in. another sense Donald Trump explicitly. ran in 2016 on dayon with Russia like. let's work with Russia let's work. together to kill the terrorists we all. don't like terrorists who cares about. overthrowing Assad that's not in our. national interest like we who cares. about so let's be friends with Russia. let's get get along with them and at and. then when you're being called a Russian.

spy every day in on on the news and you. know then when he went to Helsinki and. said you know I believe Putin I you know. I don't I don't think he interfered in. the the 2016 uh elections by the way. there's still never been a shred of. evidence presented that he did they've. got like one company that they claim had. Russian IP addresses cuz no one can fake. an IP address you know it's like the. most ridiculous claim who was once at a. party with Putin or something like that. they' nothing and so Trump just said. yeah I agree with him and they were like.

so you don't trust your intelligent you. know everyone was freaking out so much. that it got to a point where he couldn't. have made a deal with Russia because if. he had that would have just been proof. right like imagine in that environment. when Trump Russia collusion was being. said all day long if Donald Trump had. made some deal with Russia been like see. proof he's a Russian puppet and so. Donald Trump I think went out of his way. to prove what a Russian puppet he wasn't. was like here's how much I'm not a. Russian pupp send weapons into Ukraine. well and that happened on a bunch of. different issues unfortunately but the.

problem I would say at this point is. like the desire to go to war with Russia. has been pretty much the animating. thought in our foreign policy um. establishment for over 20 years y so now. we actually have a hot war with Russia. we are conducting a war against Russia. using our proxy Ukraine totally. destroyed Ukraine in the process we're. losing that war so Ukraine's not going. to win at. that I can I I don't see how Ukraine. it's impossible so what happens when.

that becomes really obvious that all. we've achieved is destroyed this country. and killed a million of its young men. and like how does the state department. and the Atlantic Council and the Aspen. Institute and Joe Scarboro and the whole. sort of blob like how do they respond to. that I mean I'm sure look I I mean I. think basically it's it's over and I. don't think anyone even I I mean this. latest round of funding is just it's an. election year and Biden's trying to kick. the can to not let this fall right now.

you know what I mean be be totally. obvious also it's easier to steal the. money when it's out of the country well. that's for sure that's that's for sure I. we have no idea where all this money has. been going but we know Ukraine is a. totally trustworthy government um you. know no corruption there um but I I. think look I'm sure they will attempt to. spin it in some way where if zalinski. still controls like the Western portion. of Ukraine they'll be like he didn't. lose the whole country and Putin would.

have been in Poland if we hadn't fought. this of course it'll all be completely. ridiculous we could have avoided this. war by just by just s saying we're not. going to admit Ukraine into Nat and. putting that in writing we could have. avoided this war this is not according. to me according to the head of NATO we. could have avoided this war by doing. that and these whatever the number is. and who knows you never know in the fog. of War I mean it's not until they really. test the excess mortality rate that but. it's clearly in hundreds of thousands I. mean they've got 50y olds fighting for.

them at this point so that tells you. something they force conscripting men. with Down Syndrome yes yes it's that. means a lot that means all your boys are. dead essentially for sure and the ones. who couldn't you know manag to flee um. and so yeah it's it's a total disaster. it it the like incredibly dark irony of. it is that all the people like cheering. on Ukraine have just as um as John mimer. said in 200 14 which aged very well. unfortunately said we we're leading.

Ukraine down the Primrose path and. that's what we did you act like you're. cheering them on but you're leaving them. to their demise and uh it's it didn't. need to happen it's terrible and I'm not. absolving Putin of responsibility I I he. was certainly put backed into a corner. but there had to be another answer other. than this you know it's just horrible um. but I know at the end of it it'll be. another disaster and the Hawks DC will. try to spin it as best they can and then. they'll all get promoted and have better.

jobs that seems to be the track record. it does feel though that we're coming to. the end of something it's like this was. the last effort to exert a certain form. of American power abroad it failed does. that make them desperate and crazy I. feel like a loss in Ukraine increases. the chances we use tactical nukes. against Russia for example well I mean I. hope I'm wrong well here the thing is it. decreases the chances that Russia uses.

them so there's that I mean you know. there's Joe Biden always pretended that. the war in Ukraine was a must-win you. know like that we couldn't allow. Vladimir Putin to win the war in you but. that's all just an act doesn't it's not. I'm just saying however you feel about. it it's not actually vital to us. survival whether we whether Russia. controls Ukraine or not that's just. that's absurd but Putin really believed. it was a must-win and that actually is a. much more reasonable case that you can't.

lose a war on your border that's a proxy. war to you know even in the Cold War we. never had you know we fought in Vietnam. but that's not on Russia's border you. know what I mean like that's this is a. whole different game and so the the to. me the real fear from the very beginning. was not that Vladimir Putin might win. the real fear was that well what if the. West wins like what if Vladimir Putin is. hum iated right on his border and feels. that his death is imminent because.

that's that's the time when nukes might. fly in that sense I you know it it's. quite possibly the better outcome I mean. no nuclear war is always the better. outcome um I do think and I I got to say. I think you're a huge part of this I I. think that if you look at like say 2002. When The War drums were beating for. Iraq there was just nothing like what we. have today I mean like the the biggest. shows in cable news the big they were. all for it they were all I was for it.

yes well I was for it until I went to. Iraq in 20 in 2003 I immediately. apologized I would say in my defense. yeah what what is it that what about the. trip made you change your mind oh I was. so shocked by the whole thing so the. invasion was in March of. 03 and I mean I was hosting a chat show. a debate show Crossfire and and actually. it's true story I was at lunch with my. father I had lunch with my dad every. week at the same table in this place in.

in this men's club in Washington and we. were sitting at the table I'll never. forget this in the fall of. 2003 and he goes when are you going to a. rock and I was like I don't I don't know. I don't think I mean I don't plan to go. to IR Rock I've got a Daily Show I have. to host he goes oh so you're a. journalist and there's a war but you're. not going to cover the war. and I was like no I've got you know like. four kids and a daily job he's like oh.

so but you're just kind of kind of sit. this one out and he like shamed me into. it it's true story he was like so. unimpressed that I wasn't going to see. it and um I was like okay you're right I. should go so I went I took leave of my. show and went um for a couple weeks with. some friends who were contractors. defense contractors of all military guys. a buddy of mine called Kelly mccan and a. bunch of Bill Frost all these really.

impressive uh contractors and we went to. a rock and the first well the first. thing that happens we got to Kuwait we. were going to fly in and the Insurgency. shot down a DHL plane coming into biop. or you know the Baghdad airport and so. we couldn't fly in I was like so we've. occupied the country now I went in. December early December so that was I. don't know nine months and we had at. least unequivocal victory over Saddam. right he was hiding into in fact he was. captured in t Cree the day I got there.

so we had just won and we can't control. the airport right so then we we drive in. from Kuwait immediately got like it was. out of control people were shooting it. was it was chaos it was full chaos and. then we stayed outside the green zone. for um in this just this house that they. had rented and one night I'm sitting on. the roof on a SAT phone trying to talk. to my wife back in Washington taking our. dog to the vet and someone starts. shooting at me and then all these people. start shooting at our house there's a. gun battle at the house I'm like what um.

do you have a gun when you're over there. oh absolutely I almost got fired for it. really actually. amazingly um you were you were told to. carry a gun it was so out of control. when I was there that journalists and. NGO workers or I don't know it was. certainly me you had to go get a. certification from the state dep I still. have my badge it's hanging in my office. right there that um you qualified with. this was an AK-47 well I actually had an.

AK-47 already not fully automatic but. just my range I knew how to operate it. but yeah you required to carry it that's. how out of control it was so and then a. buddy of mine got killed there a. journalist was killed there guy called. Mike Kelly was a really great guy and um. the bottom line was we're not good at. colonialism yeah because we don't have. the self-confidence we're not sort of. bringing Christianity and civilization. there's no like clearly defined goal for. this and we're bad at it and the Armed.

Forces is not designed to do that and. the effect was super obvious it was. chaos and the one thing I cannot deal. with and I hate and I think all people. hate instinctively is chaos people can. handle repression they live under. repressive regimes you know all through. history they have they can't handle. chaos and we brought chaos to Iraq and I. just thought this is the opposite of. what a great power should be doing this. is disgusting and I saw really really. clearly. that it would never get better and and. I'll just add one more thing to this. which I've never forgotten we went into.

the green zone one night and had dinner. with some. generals I did and this and IID always. sort of liked my dad was the military I. sort of respected the military I didn't. realize how corrupt and disgusting and. feminized the officer class was and. politicized just repulsive people. actually at the flag officer level so. we're sitting at dinner and this General. is telling me about I saw something. really touching today. I saw we had this. female officer um and she was killed her.

legs were blown off by an IED and her. husband was there and uh he you know. they've got three kids back in Virginia. but he held her hand as she died of this. ultimate sacrifice for America and I was. like what you're like celebrating this a. girl got killed a mother I thought we. fought Wars to protect mothers and. children first of all if you're sending. girls to fight your Wars you're dis. disgusting because you're violating the. most basic agreement there is which is.

the man protects and in exchange for. that the willingness to sacrifice his. life he gets to be revered as a man and. sit at the head of the table and all the. benefits of being a man and there are. many but if you're sendar your children. 100% if you're sending women to protect. you if if there's a home invasion at. your house at 3: in the morning you're. like honey I dealt with the last one go. go defend us I hope that she leaves you. and she will by the way yes so if you're. sending women to defend you it's not a. civilization worth defending that's how.

I feel can you imagine I mean going up. with the mother of your children going. to war with a mother gets her legs blown. off and you think that's a good thing. and I lost control at the table with. this guy and said almost exactly what I. think it's disgusting and it's not. because I I I don't think women should. be defending our country not because I. don't love women it's because I do love. women they're above that we should def. we should be defending our women yeah I. don't know how supporting women getting. their legs off exactly. exactly and this guy accused me of being.

like a woman hater so here I've got a. wife and three daughters who I Revere. who I would die for without thinking and. I'm like I I hated him I don't think. I've ever hated a man more than I hated. this General I wish I remember his name. um and the Pio The Fairly well-known. sort of spokesman for the provisional. Authority Dan cenor was sitting at the. table he was very offended by my. behavior and but I was outraged and I. that rage has sort of never has just. exploded on you sorry but it's never. left me and I really enjoyed it I came.

back to Washington and I was like and I. did an interview with the New York Times. and I said I cannot believe I supported. something this is totally evil what. we're doing and I've never moved from. that position I lost all these friends. for saying that whatever I'm not I don't. want to talk about myself continue to. talk about myself but yeah you asked. well because I've just I've heard you. say several times that your trip over. there you know like turned you against. the war but I never like heard you. really like say What specifically it was. crating. and then getting mad at me because I. don't I'm not going to Cate the death of. a mother what about her children and her.

husband like this is disgusting and it's. it's it's so dark and horrible that we. dress it up with ideology well the thing. that's almost like that Mak make. palatable right well the thing that's. almost more dark and horrible than just. that is when you add on the fact that. this was a small group of people who. wanted this war going back into the 90s. and that they used 911 as the excuse to.

you know what I mean be like oh yeah now. we can go get our bonus War oh look at. this right now we've got a blank check. from the American people which they did. that you tell us you say the word. terrorist in point and we will support. you bombing the crap and I knew it was. even at the time and I I went. over to the White House for something to. see Bush or. Cheney um or somebody I think I was. seeing Cheney whatever I was on the. White House ground he's really warm guy. great guy and and.

so I was there and it was like maybe the. fall of. 2002 and they'd been talking about. invador rock stuff but I didn't take it. seriously cuz I thought it was so crazy. it was like a non Secor it was like it. was just not connected in any sense to. 911 obviously and guys like you know. paid Liars like Steve Hayes or someone. write these books like alqaeda did it. and I work with Steve Hayes and I I was. so embarrassed by that it's like he's. dumb so he didn't know but I just felt I.

was like this whole thing was like so. nuts so I never thought we were going to. invad a rock I never thought that and I. show up and I'm whatever like having a. cigarette on the lawn outside where all. the all the sticks are all the standup. guys TV cameras are and I run into Mike. Allen an old friend of mine from a. Washington Post reporter now runs axio a. really nice person and has this like. Clarity of vision that I don't have. because he doesn't Caught In The Weeds. on and I said we're not really. going to invade Rock he goes of course. we are and I said how how do you know.

that he goes well cuz it's all the. Machinery is moving in that direction. like if it's going to happen I was like. that can't really happen he goes oh no. that's going to happen he wasn't. endorsing it he could just see that like. if everyone starts talking about. something like they will convince. themselves that it's true and it will. happen like we should remember that yeah. don't overthink things if something. really obvious is happening it's. happening yeah sometimes sometimes it's. yeah sometimes it's almost too hard to. accept intellectuals people like you and. to some extent me have a lot of trouble.

seeing that because we're like well. actually no no the obvious is real yeah. and it's almost like if you just if you. like you know remove yourself like if. you transcend the moment it's like yeah. it's so obvious like of course this is. happening and there's you. know what's unbelievable to me that. really like what what what's woken me up. about the Warfare state is you know like. how much it's all based on lies and that.

you see that like there's only like a. few and I you call me an intellectual. I'm really not an intellectual you know. like I'm a I'm a comedian who likes to. read but you think about why things. happen sure sure but I just mean that. I'm not an expert in any of this stuff. but you know I just know enough to know. that the supposed experts are completely. full of like all all all I have to. know is these four like narrative. shattering things and so like like just. a few of them are like look. you could read and anyone can go read. this you find it's called a clean break. a new strategy for securing the realm it.

was a letter written by uh Richard Pearl. and David wormser and a few other NE. became very powerful in the George W. bush administ so this was written in. 1996 and it was not written to Bill. Clinton it was not written to Bob Dole. who was running for president that year. it was written to Benjamin Netanyahu who. had just become the prime minister of. Israel and the clean break the strategy. was a break from this whole peace. process nonsense that yak Rabin and them.

had had agreed to and basically it was. like well look it was the beginning. laying down of what the Netanyahu. Doctrine was ultimately to be which has. culminated in a wild success as you know. um and so uh basically the idea was like. well look forget all of this like this. peace process where you focus on land. exchanges and whose land belongs to who. that's all kind of lame and so what. really you should do is reach out to the. broader Arab World kind of make. arrangements with them so you don't have. to go through this this peace process. and that starts with overthrowing Saddam.

Hussein and like that's our first step. here and then there's several other. steps but it's outlining why we want. Saddam Hussein overthrown and so then. this was for Israel's interests we. wanted this this war in 1996 now by the. way there's other things I'm not like. saying like Israel is 100% pulling the. strings of the American government I. think a big part of the reason why the. war ended up happening was also because. Geor W bush had a personal beef against. Saddam Hussein and tried to have his. father uh killed but these.

neoconservatives then who get into go as. soon as 911 and in the project for a New. American Century when they talked about. how they wanted to fight Wars on. multiple fronts they explicitly said. they probably wouldn't be able to do. that unless there was like a new another. Pearl Harbor type event where there'd be. enough popular support to now the 911. truthers The Alex Jones guys for a while. they would hang on that. as evidence that you know whatever. Cheney did 911 or something like that or.

something elements within our government. I think they're overplaying their hand. there I don't actually think that but it. certainly is evidence that they. recognized what it was once it happened. what do you think that now I I should. say what you already know which is we. don't really know that much about 911. because so many documents remain. classified yeah 23 years later and why. would that be there's no excuse for that. they should every one of them should be. released this afternoon they won't be so. we can only speculate to some extent but. like what should we be suspicious of the. official explanation for 911 I think you.

should always be suspicious of of any. government explanation for anything I. mean like that that should always be. your starting point like I'm not saying. you should jump to a conclusion about. what happened but and I think this is by. the way this is my worldview that has. served me very well uh over the LA like. I I kind of like I basically my podcast. kind of took off and a big part of well. a big part of that is like Joe Rogue and. stuff like that but I've just kind of. been consistently right on the biggest. issues I have a good track record now.

like I was in real time like calling out. how obviously Trump was not a Russian. agent and in real time I was saying the. hunter Biden laptop was real and in real. time I was against lockdowns from the. very beginning and I was again and it's. all because I just I operate from a. worldview of recognizing the government. as essentially a criminal gang that has. they're basically the mafia who won and. now they just rule you know what I mean. and like so having taken the real and. much less benign actual Mafia and that's. also and that's part of the reason why. they they don't like the mafia because.

you're a comp you're a competing gang. you're not allowed to be the gang here. we're the gang and so when you look at. things through that frame yes they're. all a bunch of liars and they're they're. power Brokers and so yeah I don't trust. anything they say I try to just go off. what I know um so we don't know exactly. what happened on 911 we do know at this. point that there was pretty high level. Saudi involvement and that the Saudis. have that the government knew that and. had no interest in punishing those. people and in fact still wanted to. continue doing business with them we do.

know that we were comfortable enough. fighting on the same side as al-Qaeda in. Libya in Syria and in Yemen um so it. didn't seem like Al-Qaeda fighting. Al-Qaeda wasn't really the motivating. force and like I said we we know that. these this group of neocons who hijacked. the federal government wanted these wars. and after 9/11 used that opportunity to. get them use that opportunity but anyway. so the point I was making about not. being an expert but being able to. shatter this narrative it's like wait so.

do you just to be clear though do you. think it's possible that people within. the US government were aware this was. going to happen before sure absolutely. that's possible yeah I mean you know I I. wouldn't put that past them it's kind of. listen these are people who are and and. I think this is one of the things that. people have been waking up to a lot more. recently and this has led to some wild. conspiracies um some of which are not. true some of which might be true. um but people have been waking up more. and more to recognizing like who are.

these people you know what I mean like. these people who have like real power in. our government like who are these people. I mean you know you take someone like. Hillary Clinton um so it's like okay so. your husband is a rapist I mean he's. been accused of rape by multiple women. clearly a sexual predator you know I. mean a man who even just the stuff we. know confirmed this was a man who at. when he was a married president was like. a 20-year-old intern in the.

White House like a a sexual predator of. so you know what I mean um and okay your. best friend her husband also is a sexual. predator who's sending naked pictures to. underage girls like hey that's weird. like how many it is weird how many. people do you know who are married to a. sexual predator whose best friend's also. married to a sexual predator like I you. know like I'm not even go I'm not saying. what is that I'm not drawing any bigger. conclusion who are these people and. these are people who are like you know.

Bohemian Grove is real they're doing. really weird stuff there that Jeffrey. Epstein was real there was a like. pedophile ring that a lot of the most. powerful people were connected to at. least knew about and didn't feel like. blowing the whistle on it um these are. people who are comfortable making. decisions where babies will die you know. like Mass Slaughter will happen and they. can sleep at night and like I'm I'm not. saying like a situation where either our. babies are going to die or their babies.

are going to die and there's a horrible. decision to make this a decision where. like no we're choosing this to happen. and they're kind of okay with that and. you kind of wake up to like so when you. say like is it possible that they'd kill. Americans or be complicit in that like. yeah of course of course that's possible. I don't have enough evidence to like. prove that that's the case but I can. prove that they wanted these wars and. then when the opportunity to get them. came lied through their teeth in. order to sell the wars look General. Wesley Clark he said as I'm sure you.

you've seen his uh democracy Now. interview where he said that he saw the. plans in late 2001 that it wasn't just. that we were going into Iraq but that we. were also going to have regime change in. Syria and several other countries but. then when they go to start the regime. change in Syria 2013 or whatever they. well they started in 2012 but then they. go oh we have to overthrow Assad because. you know he's killing all of his own. people it's like no no no no no you. wanted to overthrow Assad over a decade. ago don't give me this that.

this is some new plan now so I do know. that they will lie through their teeth. to the American people like this I know. for certain that they will lie through. their teeth to the American people to. get enough public support for Mass. Slaughter campaigns because they want. those campaigns for completely different. reasons and I'm again like I said before. this isn't speculation they wrote this. in their own words one of the reasons. they wanted to remake the Middle East in. this way is because they thought it was. in Israel's interest and that to me is.

like just totally unacceptable as an. American that you're first of you're. lying to the people of this country and. you're doing something with a foreign. country's interest in mind that that's. just like so appalling that I think. people should be like publicly hung for. it after a trial after a trial people I. mean it it's not America first I would. say that it's kind of hard to it's kind. of hard to sare that Circle but what's. interesting is that so many people who. talk about America first or whatever.

they're fully on board with this they. attack anyone who's not I had a. thoroughly bizarre experience the other. day and maybe you can shed light on what. it means because I don't fully. understand it but I was doing uh Rogan's. podcast at your urging so thank you for. that I had a great time I I love the. podcast yeah it was super super fun but. you know it's very long it was like 3. hours long so and I can't stop talking. so another thing and I'm going on. whatever you know and um at one point I. just blurted out for like 15 seconds.

something I've thought about recently. which is the use of the nuclear bombs. the only time they have been used in. August of 1945 against Hiroshima and. then. Nagasaki complex topic a lot of it's not. publicly welln okay but just the. bottomline fact that we dropped. particularly the bomb on Nagasaki which. was the Christian capital of Japan by. the way that bomb was dropped on a. church and killed you know 3/4 of the. Christians in the city um which bothers. me as a Christian but leaving even that.

aside it killed civilians it wasn't. dropped on a military base it was killed. killed civilians and like I get why. people did it or maybe I don't get it. but I think 80 years later we can say. not something to brag about incinerating. civilians I don't care what the context. is that's evil that's all basically all. I said holy did I get attacked from. the right and I thought and I don't even. follow the attacks of me ever but I kept. getting texts from people I can't. believe you said that or people are mad. at you for saying that and I thought of.

all that dumb cruel untrue things I have. said over 30 years of just talking in. public a lot of which I regret and I. hope I've apologized for every bad thing. I've said but I've said a lot of really. things are impossible to defend that's. what they attack me on yeah what is that. well and just the fact like even as. you're saying like again if you want to. attack you on something like hey you. supported the war in Iraq like there's a. thing like I really got this wrong and. it was how is what a like Twisted. Society we liveed rney when he ran yeah.

I mean but guys all of the people who. got all of these wars wrong don't. receive as much outrage as you for. saying after the war was one and by the. way like if you know anything about it. it festar General Dwight Eisenhower was. against the nle he said it was. unnecessary they were ready to negotiate. a surrender we didn't need to do this. and like but also there's just but I. didn't even get into the details of the. of that saying wrong on it face exactly. I was just the principle of using.

nuclear weapons against a civilian. population you could construct in your. mind a scenario where you could justify. it I guess but it's still sort of in The. Cold Light of Day hard to defend. incinerating civilians by the way with. incendiary bombs too or conventional. bombs as in Dr or it's just bad why. would that make people on the right so. mad I'll tell what is that so this is my. kind of theory on it is that if you. you'll kind of notice um World War II. which was a long time ago at this point.

yeah generates this enorm you know you. said the thing I love when you said that. about how you could tell there's an. infection because you touch it and. people recoil you tell something's. infected there right yes and I could sit. here all day long and talk about how we. shouldn't have fought World War I and. which we shouldn't have fought yeah. that's for sure for sure this will. generate no controversy I could say this. all day long and go through how wer. Wilson was completely wrong to get us. involved. nobody cares this will not I will not on.

Twitter about saying this I could talk. about how Vietnam was a complete. disaster or also lied into that war and. how many people died in it Korea Iraq. all the World War II is the one that is. what's so weird about that is clearly. the most important we talked about this. last night the most important thing in. your life is your marriage and your. children yes so if I said to you Dave. Smith I think you have a shitty marriage. you would be like no I don't actually I. have a nice marriage that wouldn't like. you wouldn't be mad about that you'd be. like I don't think you really know I cuz.

you're not hiding anything right so. like well so here's the thing well. here's what it is right and like I want. to be very clear just when I say this. I'm if you're like trying to read. between the lines here I'm not saying. that the Holocaust didn't happen or. something like that it did happen. and yes those people are dead my family. was involved in it one of the worst. things i' ever. but look World War II is the origin. story of the American Empire that's when.

we really became the world Empire and. it's the justification for the entire. Empire it's why every single neocon. every single Hawk goes back to World War. II anytime there's a war because that's. what's used to justify every other War. we stopped Hitler okay we'd all be. speaking German if it wasn't for the. American Military so how dare you. question the next thing this why Saddam. Hussein was Hitler. movich was Hitler Putin's Hitler they're. all Hitler I I can't tell you how many. people I've heard uh and I've debated.

some of these people who defending. Israel's uh attack on Gaza by going well. uh we killed a lot of civilians in World. War II you know so just like that as if. Hamas are the Nazis it's anything. comparable but the thing is that so when. you talk about World War II you're only. allowed to have the official narrative. on it and here it is we all know what it. is right who are you Neville Chamberlain. you mean you don't want to go to war you. want to appease as that's the only. lesson of history that you're allowed to.

learn is that appeasement doesn't work. presumably we should have started the. war earlier I guess is the story but. every by the way you can never learn the. lesson of history that sometimes like. preemptive Wars don't work sometimes you. know like ruthless power doesn't work. maybe sometimes appeasement would be. better than that you know it's like. there's only one you know and so that's. the lesson by the way same thing with. Putin that everybody who if you didn't. support the War I know you got called. this I watched you get called this um. you were never Chamberlain for not. wanting to back Ukraine immediately in. the war right it's the only lesson in. history now you can't look at World War.

II and say hey maybe danzic was the. lesson maybe maybe War guarantees were. the lesson I'm not even saying they are. maybe not but objectively speaking if we. want to be honest about World War II. World War II is the worst thing that. ever happened in the history of the. world yes by defition the worst thing. that ever happened more people killed. the Holocaust happened in the middle of. it tens of millions of people died and. and European uh conflict brutal conflict. on all sides destroyed the greatest. continent yes now the right exactly now.

um okay if you want you know they say. winners of Wars write the history and. man did the Nazis and Imperial Japan. make it really easy because they were so. evil they were like they were like. caricatures of evil you know and and. they really were now it's a little more. complicated than that cuz Stalin's Army. wasn't like high-fiving everybody on the. way to uh to raped every woman in. Germany right I mean it's like there's a. lot of but any sane person if you look.

back at World War II and you recognize. the worst thing that ever happened you. would try to say how could we have. avoided this exactly like what could we. have done to not make this happen the. lesson should be like oh my God we. imposed Versailles on the Germans and. insisted on humiliating them. internationally and look at the backlash. of this and then you know whatever. there's all this a lot of it comes down. to entering World War I and World War II. was really. but it's the only you're allowed to take. this but you I liked the way you put it. on and it was just kind of a aside but.

look it's just so evil on its face that. I know human beings are amazing at doing. mental gymnastics to justify anything. I've been doing a lot of debates on the. topic of Israel and I've been watching. this firsthand you know it's like you. could watch uh uh videos every day on. Twitter of babies you know like. suffocating to death under building. under rubble and like someone will just. justify that someone will say well. actually we need to do this cuz whatever. all of Hamas must be destroyed why.

exactly like why is it absolutely. necessary you're telling me Israel The. Fortress of the world can't just not. drop the ball again you know what I mean. like there's not some other answer other. than this and of course America must. fund it for reasons um but it's like no. actually that is just evil and and and. the onus is on you to exhaust every. single other option before doing that. but it's just interesting it's like I've. done a lot of evil things in my life and. I really regret it I think all of us are. capable of evil I've never committed. genocide or anything but I mean I've.

been pointlessly cruel or deceptive and. you know and I'm ashamed of it so I'm. not judging even Harry Truman for this. but it's like why can't why is that so. offensive and the other question I have. and maybe you've got insight into this I. don't know that much I've read a lot. about World War II I'm not an expert but. like the this worship of Churchill. I think is very odd there's a lot about. Churchill I think that was impressive. arod guy fluid writer um had a kind of.

style that I like use tobacco which I. love I mean there's a lot about church. right that the is cool for sure but here. are the facts like he sold his country. on a war using the idea that we must. defend the territorial Integrity of. Poland there are other reasons that was. the main reason right. Poland okay maybe that's a reason. then four years later he hands Poland to. the. Soviets after a bloodbath yes this.

country that we went to war on behalf of. I'm handing it to a worse Master a more. totalitarian master or at least as bad. yeah I mean the the only other one who. or one of the only other two who rival. you know what I mean I don't know I. guess you could say if Hitler had won. the war could he have then killed more. people than I guess we'll never know but. yeah still up there huge problem a huge. Jord and Kobe you could debate who but. clearly you don't care about Poland if.

you just handed it to stalon or clearly. it didn't work you know or something. there's like there's a massive. disconnect so that's the first fact the. second fact is he was rejected by his. own voters right after the war so they. actually weren't so impressed by his. leadership and the third fact is that. war destroyed Britain yeah and that. country is a depressing husk right now I. go there a lot unfortunately I don't. want to go there it's the most. depressing place I can imagine it's. totally defeated in some deep spiritual.

sense and um it's embarrassing to go. there so you destroy your country on. behalf of Poland and then you hand it to. Stalin like I don't those are the. bottomline facts about Churchill there. are a lot of other things to say about. him but those are the Salient points how. could anybody think that's good well you. know in uh in Pat buan seriously that. 100% you know Pat Buchanan's book uh uh. Churchill Hitler in the unnecessary War. the unnecessary war is in quotes cuz. that's not Pat Buchanan saying it it's a. Churchill quote that Church Hill after.

the war said it was the most avoidable. unnecessary War afterward he took. Britain from being the most powerful. nation in the world to being totally. defeated they lost that war as much as. anybody else but look at it now yeah. it's disgusting by the way there's so. many there's so many like Ripple effects. of this too because they ALS you know. the whole situation with Israel. Palestine this is also a result of the. British Empire being defeated right and. being driven out. so there's so much uh to this why defend. it that's the way look I'm not even. judging Churchill I may have made.

similar decisions I I've made so many. bad decisions in my life I'm not even. judging I'm just saying 80 years later. when we can see clearly the aftermath. how could you possibly defend that right. and why would you want to and also I. just you know like there's a reason I. mean there's lots of reasons why America. was so successful as a country but part. of the reason really was the Brilliance. of our founding fathers and the system. that they created I that's a huge part. of it and there's like a you know it's. like when they George Washington's. farewell address where he warns about. entangling alliances and there was.

something really profound that they saw. there and this this idea and this this. is a real problem with like it's like. why would we even want Ukraine and NATO. why do we want to make war guarantees. for countries that we have neither the. resources nor the political will to. actually defend in the case of a war you. know look I mean like first off we're. broke we're $34 trillion in debt we. can't AF we can't afford our own Wars. let alone everybody else's we're. literally it's it's so cartoonish we're.

borrowing money to then go you know it's. like if you were like if I was giving my. sister money and my my cousins money and. all of them but I'm putting it on a. credit card you know what I mean like. I'm I'm just I don't have the money but. I'm I'm such a great guy I'm helping my. whole family it's like no you're not in. a position to do they're not even our. family right and they're not even right. they're not even our family I'm just. helping some random guy literally some. junkie you met at. yes that's a better analogy that is a. better analogy for Ukraine than my. sister to be honest yes um and so like.

it it's just totally absurd but then. also at the same time like look war is. horrible there's always some type of. conflict going on in the world and it's. awful but like are the question is like. would you be willing or would you be. willing to send your kids to go fight. and die over between you know to. determine whether you know the donbas. region is ruled by Kiev or Moscow like. was is that important enough to you. because to me is a easy answer just no I. would not be but would it be worth. killing a million ukrainians yeah right.

right yes but I'll put a flag in my bio. and support my politicians printing. money to to send over them or or I. should say printing money to then buy. from weapons companies weapons to then. send over to them a mix of weapons and. cash or whatever but yeah I mean like so. to me it's would you mind though not. referring to them as Weapons companies. but defense manufacturers I'm sorry yes. that's right the defense department the. the defense manufact the intelligence. Community that's my favorite one the int. the community they're all just like. gardening with each other and stuff you.

know so you you described yourself as a. comic who likes to read yeah which I. love let me ask you about about comedy. so went and had dinner with Rogan last. month and was not my world I had no idea. that Austin Texas had become like the. world capital of Comedy yeah he made it. the world capital of Comedy you. described him as the Johnny the mon. modern Johnny Carson 100% so how like. how does it work the system now it's.

like well I mean Rogan so he was doing. the podcast in La for for many years. that's when I first met him he was. living out in LA and he left I think. during the lockdown SL riots you know. when California as you know very well is. Fallen apart it's one of the great. tragedies in America it's awful um and. so he decided to take it down to Austin. where they had kind of like opened up. and it was flourishing and Austin is. it's like um it's one of the last like. great liberal cities in this country you.

know which is and and like I know a lot. of people on the right who kind of have. this attitude of like well screw them. they voted in these policies and all. that but I'm just saying that is wrong. that is the wrong attitude to have you. need liberal cities and for to have a. healthy country you kind of need that. dynamic as much as you need beautiful. country you know what I mean liberal. cities are all that we have of course. but functioning liberal cities that's. what I mean yes you need them to not be. hell holes which many of them have. turned into but soogan it just started. because there was something about you.

know just like the stars aligning you. know in a very similar way to I I heard. you talk about I think you were talking. to me about um how look there's. something to the fact that say you get. fired from Fox News and it happens to be. at this point where Elon Musk bought. Twitter and turned it into everyone's. there and you're protected there they're. not going to ban you and you know when. Bill O'Reilly got fired from Fox News. just there was nothing like that it was. like you go to a relevant Rogan happened. to kind of like come up as this internet.

world was exploding and he's just such. an interesting guy and such a genuine. guy that his podcast just took off and. he became kind of like in this situation. where he anybody who kind of comes on or. if you come on and you do well you know. it's just like the biggest opportunity. and he's such a genu like generous. person that I think he loves that I. think that's his favorite thing of all. of it out of owning The Comedy Club the.

podcast like everything he does I see it. in him what he really loves what really. makes him happy is that he gets to kind. of bring all of his guys with him and. you know I I know a lot of friends who. Joe has changed their lives you know. like he's been it's the Johnny Carson. thing it's I remember Jerry Seinfeld. hearing him I don't know him but hearing. him describe doing Carson. and he said it was he said it was an. experience like having kids where you go. in one and come out another you know.

what I mean which is really is the. experience of kid particularly that. first kid because you literally like. it's like you and your wife go to a. hospital as a couple and then you leave. that hospital as like we're mommy and. daddy now and it's really weird it's a. really weird feeling like focused on. your wife and you come out obsessed with. her the baby yeah yeah yeah and then. your wife's like hobbling in the. background like yeah just kidding kind. of but anyway but uh it's but it's this. amazing you know it's like um you know.

it's like you're on drugs basically like. you're high when you first come out with. a new baby you kind of can't believe it. and you also you don't know what you're. doing with the first one you know but. you figure it out but anyway he said. Carson was like that like you go in a. nobody and then you come out and you're. a somebody and it's kind of like that. with Rogan like it's just and and it's. there's all these similar Dynamics like. he'll kind of go you know like he'll go. like 2 hours and 15 minutes with some. people and then he'll go like 3 and a. half hours sometimes if he really likes. the conversation and you never know as.

you know when you're in there you have. no idea how long you actually went for. or whatever but it's um and that like my. experience with him was he heard me on. uh a mutual friend of ours Ari shaffir's. podcast who I love also hilarious that. guy's talented he's so fun he's like and. also just a great person and an insane. person but one of the best people I've. ever known um and so I was on his. podcast and Rogan heard it and he goes I. think this guy's awesome I want to have. him on and it was just like that like he. loved what I was saying so he was like. oh I want to make this guy like.

successful it's just like amazing and. and what happened to your life well I. started making money so that was that. was pretty nice so it was that it was. kind of that simple it was I mean it was. like it wasn't exactly just that but. immediately the I like I was already. doing my podcast and then immediately as. soon as the first one with Rogan was out. my numbers like shot up like all of a. sudden I had big audience I went from. having a tiny little audience to like. having a big audience and then every you. know I've done it a lot of times every. time you do it your numbers shoot up.

your numbers shoot up and so like yeah. it's just unbelievable and you know one. of the things about Rogan is um and I I. gotta say I and I really mean this I. think you have this quality too and I. kind of knew this about you like I've. I've watched you for many years at this. point I I watched you I mean a little. bit when you were on CrossFire but I. watched your show your Show on MSNBC a. lot and then I always watched the only. one the MSNBC one that might be true. that's not true for Fox that's not true. at all for Fox but you might be right. about MSNBC it it was me I was I had.

MSNBC on all day long um for whatever. reason I kind of just to like piss me. off for most of the time but also. getting off on a Tang MSNBC was a very. different thing back then that is so. night and day to today I mean you just. can't even it was so much smarter and. more thoughtful there was still a lot of. propaganda to it there was still a lot. of um I think you've gotten. better over the years. but as a network they got worse I me. like Joe used to be like um like you and.

Pat Buchanan and Rachel mat and uh Dylan. rigan even who was kind kind of like R. well had something to say sometimes that. you be like okay that's kind of and I. mean it's. become like every single host has the. same opinions as the last hour precisely. there's not one now occasionally they'll. be the guy like um what's his name I'm. blanking on his name who just got canned. cuz he was Pro Palestinian oh exactly. right so occasionally you'll have one.

guy who has a different opinion and then. oh he's out pretty quickly my favorite. part of MSNBC is all the black people on. the air have exactly the same opinions. too it's like what's the point of. diversity if everyone went to Princeton. and is a neoliberal well there's nothing. there's nothing more they got to get. some rappers on MSNBC they would never. be allowed right right cuz but there's. something about um like being ologic. possessed that's very unpleasant you. know what I mean like and there's. something one of the things that was. great about your show on Fox news is.

that like you would on many key issues. have a completely different opinion than. everybody else at Fox News and it'd be. kind of crazy to watch the whole news. day not that I watch the whole news day. but I knew what their guys take were and. everybody is like yeah we got to go. attack you know Assad because he just. Gass his own people and then like you. would like come on at 8:00 p.m. and by. the way I remember cuz I was doing uh. this show with SC cup at at the time I. worked for CNN very briefly as like a. contributor um and I remember having it. was the first week after the the gas.

attack the gas attack now this was. poison gas against his own people but. now this was before the opcw. whistleblowers had like come out and so. I didn't like have any like evidence. this didn't have well I mean you just. look at it and you go okay so so you're. telling me that this is we're in 2018. now 2017 2018 um Assad has been fighting. a civil war since. 2012 uh fighting for his survival. fighting to not go out like Gaddafi like.

to not get. sodomized Donald Trump announces that. we're pulling at he announces that you. won you're going to live you're not. going to be sodomized to death by a mob. right okay and then Assad decides a week. and a half later I'm going to do the one. thing that would turn International. opinion around to keep me at risk of. being sodomized just like right away on. the face of it like no I don't think so. and like the onus is on you to but. anyway but everyone else at Fox News the.

whole day would be saying that and then. you'd have something different to say. yeah there's something incredibly boring. about someone you just tell me don't. even tell me the name but it's an MSNBC. host someone who hosts the show at you. could pick the name in your head and. I'll tell you their opinion on. everything climate change it's an. existential crisis and we have to blah. blah you know racism well we have to. confront systemic racism we have to. conversation about race real. conversation I was like really I'd love. to yeah yeah exactly right I don't think. you want that well that's right and it's.

and no and it's just so boring so boring. to anyway where I was get can I just. also say soul destroying yes like what. you were saying earlier I thought was so. right on about repeating lies is such an. offense against you like where's your. self resect have you no dignity yeah. like are you just like an animal who can. be you know hit with a shot collar. forced to perform tricks like don't and. there's something dude there's something. it's like a universal law where you kind. of um like the way I think Jordan.

Peterson said it was like uh you get to. choose your suffering you don't get to. choose no suffering you get to choose. your suffering and this is true across. everything like we you could sit down. and have a fat piece of cheesecake or. you could jump on the treadmill the. cheesecake feels awesome yes the. treadmill sucks you know what I. mean but you're paying a price you're. just kind of choosing and by I'm not you. should never sit back and have. cheesecake like sometimes you got to do. that but it's like you're choosing your. suffering like I'm and there's this. choice where I'm going to choose to.

suffer upfront now so that I have some. benefit later and there it's always kind. of that Dynamic and when you lie to. yourself it's like okay you're choosing. this kind of shortterm you know this lie. will have whatever positive effect it'll. have this person might believe I'm a. little bit cooler than I really am or. whatever but there's a longterm there's. never not a cost you can never get away. from that without paying some type of. price so degrading and that's the so. degrading like how could and it's. interesting and all the the people with. self-respect have are gone they they've.

been purged yeah but then there's also. okay so part of that price too and this. is what I was getting at which the thing. that you and Rogan have in common is. that so many of those host and I don't. know all of them you know i' I've done a. lot of shows at Fox News met a lot of. people over there and I I did a lot of. shows at CNN when I was working uh there. and so I met a lot of those guys I've. never I was one time in the MSNBC. Studios and just met a few of the people. there but they're like so many of them. are totally phony like they're just not. I mean I've had things where like I've.

gone and grabbed beers with people after. like a show at Fox News like after doing. Kennedy or doing Gutfeld or something. like that and I one time there was a. Green Beret I won't name him but he's a. he was a Green Beret who served a couple. tours in Afghanistan and he was on when. we were on the show he was talking about. you know how supporting The Surge I. think I can't remember this years ago I. I think it was Trump's first surge it. was that then we go out for beers. afterward and he just he was like listen. there is no Army over there that we've. been building up there's nothing they'll.

fold in a day and he goes let me tell. you and he would tell me about like the. you know he goes dude we would we would. give them uh you know like some machine. guns we'd go out on a mission come back. they used them to Rob everybody in the. village there's no Afghan Army that. we're building up the Taliban will run. right through them it's was like oh why. didn't you just tell everybody that you. know what I mean like why did you. totally lie when we were on TV and it's. just there's a lot of people who do that. and you can smell that you can smell. that on them though like even if you. don't know that over time people kind of.

know people kind of know like oh these. guys are and there is something having. watched you for a long time and now. having met you um and this is Joe Rogan. too you are exactly the same person off. camera that you are on camera and. there's no now with both you there might. be something you'd say off camera that. you wouldn't say on camera but there's. nothing you're saying but there's. nothing you're saying on camera that you. don't believe. I would never do that and so that's like. I think that is you don't have to say. everything you think you cannot lie. right right exactly and you never say.

everything you think that's I don't. think you should actually CU I have a. lot of dumb opinions too that are just. rooted in meanness or irritation or. mocking people's appearances which I. have a weakness for don't don't do that. if you help you're a I'm going to keep. doing it I get I get your point but I'm. I have no intention of stopping that but. there is something that I think is part. of um what I love so much about and I. think part of what why he has blown up. and been so successful is that you know. because people ask me all the time be. like what's Joe Rogan like you know and.

I'll be like you already know you. already know you already know what he's. like and you know this CU you went and. hung out he's exactly that guyt he's. exactly the same guy OB you know what I. I love that that works I love I'm. thrilled by his success and yes the. money too not that interested in money. but I understand that like unless. something is a real business it won't. continue right and so I love how. successful he's been because it means. it's just inspiration to everyone else. yes right if you're an honest person you.

can actually make a good living being an. honest person how great is that yeah. well that's that's that's awesome no. that's right and that that is the part. and I don't like I'm I'm not the biggest. fan but that is the stuff where ion. round was really correct about that the. idea that like no like kind of there. there is this connection between. like what she would call selfishness. which I don't think is the right word. for it but like but there is something. between like. like. success and that humans are weird. psychological creatures sometimes you. can have the desire to not succeed to.

not outshine somebody else you know and. but actually you're doing a much better. thing if you like succeed if you're. great at something and then you're like. an inspiration to others to be well sure. ran gets Rich because he's Brave and. honest how is that bad yeah I mean you. see all these other people getting rich. because they're Craven and dishonest. yeah and that's very demoralizing. actually well and also I mean there's so. there's so many things to be down about. in our our country particularly right.

now like our country is not in a very. good place and like I you know I'm uh. like I got a wife and two little kids. and I put put on a very strong face for. them like in front of them I'm never. like worried about anything no matter. what it is and that's just the way it's. like everything don't buy gold in front. of your wife do that secretly I me she. sees the bars but the point is that but. I'm very but you know the truth is like. between me and you and the millions of. people on the internet like I'm. terrified about the future of our. country I'm very very concerned about it. and there's a lot of like you know look.

I mean obviously like we're in um we're. in $34 trillion do of debt we can never. stop fighting these wars we've turned. World opinion completely against us we. have the worst um political and social. and racial divides of my lifetime the um. the culture is more insane than any time. in my lifetime I mean the fact that. we're debating over whether 5 old boys. can transition to be girl the fact that. that's even a a real thing and it's not. a joke that wouldn't work because. everyone goes that's too absurd to you.

can be funny you know what I mean like I. mean that's just like a sign in itself. but there is also something else going. on and it's much bigger than me and I. don't understand it I don't pretend to. understand it but we are living through. some type of major paradigm shift and. where lies are being exposed quicker and. people are being exposed more than ever. and honesty and integrity are being. rewarded in certain ways and that's like. I kind of have to cling on to that.

because there's so much to be you know. to feel despair over but there's. something really positive about this I. couldn't agree more propaganda is not. working the same way it was do you find. I just I've had this convers this I ask. everyone I have dinner with this. question which is do you find in the. midst of all of this sadness and chaos. and decline um rapid decline that your. personal relation relationships are. deeper and more fulfilling oh yeah. totally I mean for me you do feel that. oh yeah I mean there's no question about. it for me I mean I've like my I I have.

little kids I've my oldest is five so. I've just in the last few years you know. started like having kids so yes and and. I have great friends and um through this. weird internet world where we are I've. kind of cultivated like a a really great. audience of a lot of really cool people. um and yeah I think that there's you. know so you think you're relating to. people in a deeper way than you did say. five or six 10 years ago I think 100% um.

it's ALS it's been there been a big. period for me kind of growing up you. know I had a very like prolonged. adolescence kind of I was a stand-up. comedian kind of living a degenerate. life for many years and then I settled. down and got married and had kids um so. that's just aside from the craziness of. the world I think whenever you go. through that you're just living in a. better way BL are you though very very L. very very cuz that's like your I mean. that's your Fortress against in that. protects you from everything else that. exactly cuz it well it's and it's just. um you know it's it's whatever you're.

you know this is the thing that was kind. of I know you sent me a when I tweeted. something about this but where like when. you don't have God whatever is next. highest in line becomes in effect your. God and there is something about um I. did not have God or family and my own. family you know I had family members who. I Lov but I have my own own family and. my whole life I kind of like I was like. a '90s kid I I grew up in I was born in. 1983 I grew up in the '90s um none of us.

nobody I knew was religious yes nobody I. and we we did not have um you know like. all of the Traditions that many previous. generations grew up with where they like. God country chivalry these things you. wear this uncomfortable outfit here cuz. that's what you expected of you around. other people when you go to church you. know you strap on these boots it was. like no we just grew up in blue jeans. and sneakers and the point of life was. kind of like to get through school to go. play you know what I mean when you were.

when I was a teenager it was like to. like smoke pot or you know like try to. get laid or something you know what I. mean like it was all just kind of like. revolved around what's fun and it wasn't. until I uh got married and when we had. my my first kid and I found god um also. at that same time that I've been living. a totally different life where my life. is kind of centered around this purpose. that there's meaning to it and it's not. really about me and whether I'm having. fun like I still like to have fun. sometimes but it's like what that's.

really not that important like what's. really important is that like I'm being. a great husband to my wife I'm being a. great father to my kids and ironically. some degree you just find much deeper H. uh much deeper happiness when you're not. living just for happiness know we were. talking about this off camera I really. wish this had been on camera cuz it was. so interesting what you were saying but. you didn't grow up in a conventional two. parent household no right no my parents. were got divorced when I was three. that's young yeah um so she grew up in a. single parent household but you seem to.

have kind of figured out the formula so. well and I said well how did you know. that how did you well I mean look it's. it's a mix of a few things um my mother. was a really great mother so I only had. one parent but I did have a really good. parent and she did instill a lot of you. know like good values in me um I don't. mean if that kind of contradicts what I. just said before like she did instill. good values in me even though we didn't. have kind of like you know God or. anything like that um and it was.

something that was just instinctually in. me when I when I first had kids that I. just wanted to give them that and the. other major fact there is that my wife. is just like the best person I've ever. met and she was I got very lucky again. and just met a really great girl and. that is uh there is nothing better than. being in a great marriage and I would. imagine I've never experienced it but. nothing worse than being I think it's. like burning to death yeah the people I. know who I've known people like that who. like with a really crazy chick and they.

can't even think straight because. they're in agony all the time yeah you. it's horrible but it's just it's just. interesting I think maybe I'm very. distressed by the number of kids growing. up in single parent households I grew up. in a single parent household when I was. a kid so I'm I'm not judging anybody. yeah yeah but it's in retrospect I think. well maybe if you grew up that way as. you did and I did you don't take things. for granted and you're more you're more. intentional in the way you structure. your own family because you said to me. off air you're like I wanted this yeah.

and I also just have the attitude that. like um I well I think that and I blame. the Baby Boomers for almost all of our. problems I doo and I don't I'm I don't. obviously when you speak in about a. group that big I'm painting with a broad. brush there are exceptions to this Rule. and I you know I love my mother very. much and she's a good person um but as a. generation they just ruined everything. and they're totally selfish yes um. completely Jeff dice who I love this guy. is so brilliant um but he uh he said he.

gave a speech about it and he was going. through the things of like all of the. slogans of the Baby Boomers and how. self-serving they all were like it was. like don't trust anyone over 30 until. they got into their 30s you know and. then it was like and like you watch it. all the way to through uh like Co it's. like we got to do everything we can to. protect like the baby M generation. people are the most important yes from. don't trust anyone over 30 to being like. screw your childhood I don't want to get. this keep your hands off my medicare by. the way you know like all everything.

it's just and um but one of the major. things that they changed about the. culture was like normalizing casual. divorce as if that should just kind of. be an option like I'm just not feeling. it anymore so like we can get divorced. and like there's no sense of like no no. no no no like look I'm there are. exception there are cases where there's. no abusive spouse or something like that. but generally speaking the idea like you. took an oath before God and everyone you. L and then brought children into this. world that is that is your obligation.

and that's that's like my attitude. toward marriage is that it's like listen. me and my wife um we've we've faced some. hurdles in our marriage like things in. the outside world that have happened um. and I think we've done a very good job. of them we've had ve serious issu like. we had major health concerns with one of. our kids um and got through that we've. had been through lockdowns and been. through. and there's more ahead there's a lot. more ahead but one thing that is uh for. certain is that that's it it's us for. the rest of this like this is we're.

living this life together now and to me. that's what being married is well if. you're not that you're not really. married if you're trapped you'll make do. by the way that sounds Grim but it's not. Grim I've never I mean I have the same. kind of marriage I've had a happy. marriage for 33 years one of the reasons. is that is what we're doing yeah that's. right and I grew up with divorce I. remember as a child my brother my only. brother feels that we would talk about. this wearing kids like adults like. them yeah having kids and then. getting divorced you can go find. yourself in France you I knew and I.

knew people in in my my listen in my. parents generation there were so many. people like that so many people I know. and totally up the kids and did. it cuz like right like I got to be happy. as if somehow that's a noble thing of. like I got to be happy and they but they. never turned out happy no cuz you have. cuz cuz the key to real happiness I me. there's different ways to measure. happiness or like what ever again like. you know there's someone training for a. marathon and there's someone sitting. having a bag of potato chips and in the. moment the guy having the bag of potato.

chips might be happier than the guy. training for the marathon but like. ultimately who's going to feel better. about themselves is going to be you know. what I mean so like there's um but you. have obligations you have obligations. and responsibilities and if you don't. fulfill those you're not going to find. longterm Take the Long View like the. neighborhood I grew up in had all kinds. of Rich divorced moms. and every one of them was crazy and. unhappy every single one of them and you. wonder where they I thought in the years. since like where are they now you know.

what I mean living in some condo in. Scottdale with Parkinson's unvisited by. their kids like it you'd get old and die. in the end and when you do I'm I really. hope I'm surrounded by all my girls and. my son and like yeah oh he was such a. good guy like yeah that's all that. matters that's how I feel about it you. know what I mean and they like talk. about you at dinner when you're gone oh. I miss him you don't want people I've. seen people die who mistreated their. children I've lived it actually and it's. like that person you know what I.

mean I don't want that and also look I. mean that kind of um the the absence of. having that feeling or the the Baby. Boomers kind of not feeling that way. it's kind of like I mean look what it's. what it's led to I mean you know it's. very easy for um you know uh say popular. conservative you know pundits to kind of. dunk on college kids and stuff like that. which is like fun and I I've I've. enjoyed videos of where you know like. Ben Shapiro is like destroying. 19-year-old and some college campus and.

you know it's like uh you know he he's. she's like you know some some trans kid. or something like that and is like well. I'm you know I I was born a boy but why. can't I live as a woman and he's like. why can't you live as a cat and I was. like it's like a the intellectual. prowess of destroying this and like yes. okay that is stupid that kid was an. idiot but. you also kind of like peel a little bit. deeper and you're like so what was this. kid's situation really CU you're talking. to a 19-year-old you know what I mean. and let me guess uh came from a broken.

home I'm trying not to pound the table. here cuz I agree with you so strongly. was medicated I bet you know like as a. young kiding in the barrel of a grim. life yes has no conceivable path toward. like Independence and toward what. you have and what you grew up with which. is that's all that really matter and. you're in charge of the society by the. way you're in charge of the society. you've influence in the society you're. in the priv class and there's no shame. in that by the way yes but it does carry. with it the obligation to see that the. Next Generation has a decent shot and. you haven't done that you've wasted at.

all on foreign adventurism and your. stupid economic ideas and this is the. result and you will take no. responsibility for like oh stupid kids. no your job is to create another. generation of smart kids and then they. Wise Kids and they mock them they're. like oh well maybe maybe if you don't. have your avocado toast and your lattes. then you'd be able to buy a house or. something and you're like look okay it. is true you're making me mad I totally. agree it's look it's true that this. generation is in many ways softer and. more privileged and part of that's.

because they they grew up with. technological wealth that previous. generations never had it's also partly. because their parents never instilled. like values in them to care about kind. of more than just avocado toast but the. fact is that baby boomers could go to. college and get a summer job and pay for. their college okay and then. that if they didn't go to college they. could go to high school and then go wait. online and get a job where you could. support a wife and kids off of that job. that's my my you know like and that was.

The Way of the World previously that my. grandfather worked in factories his. whole life and his wife didn't work and. that was that he and and he owned a. house he sent kids to college he had two. cars like they had a a nice life and. these kids today come out with six. figures of debt and are getting a job at. you know Starbucks and houses are going. for like 600 Grand. for you know what I mean for that same. Humble House that my my grandfather had. and and the Baby Boomers all got rich by. the value of their house just going up.

and never and it seems like not a one of. them ever went hey but aren't we kind of. like pulling up the ladder on the. helicopter here like if my house is like. skyrocketing in value that's nice for me. I got a HELOC and I got like some money. coming in now that I can invest in the. market that's going up and make this. income coming in but what about the Next. Generation how are they ever going to. buy a house they don't care like no one. seemed to care about they don't care and. I I I'm trying not to interrupt your. wonderful description with.

amens uh and hosas but I just I I so. strongly agree with what you're saying. and I have a bunch of kids they're all. actually thriving I would say inside um. they're all good people clear thinking. they love each other most important um. but I'm around a lot of college age kids. like a lot like way more than most. people in my age I'm 54 and I don't. think they're soft at all I'm not. talking my kids I mean their friends or. you know I'm around it a lot they're. hard edged actually right they know how.

I mean they're they may be wrong they. may be confused but they're they're. actually pretty tough in a way and. they're pretty angry and they sort of. get what's going on and I have deep. sympathy for them deep deep they've been. completely screwed over by the people in. they don't have any power even if you're. a 19-year-old Columbia kid like I may. not agree with your slogan or down with. white people whatever I well of course I. hate that I am a white person but I do. sort of like think whose fault is that.

it's the people who run everything it's. your your stupid Boomer parents y it's. the administrators at the school it's. our politicians I mean I'm sorry to. blame society for the crimes of young. people but actually Society does deserve. the blame and the leaders of the society. deserve the blame yeah 100% that's not a. liberal perspective that's a. conservative perspective I care about. the Next Generation that's how if you. don't care about how your grandchildren. are GNA live here how are you. conservative what are you conserving. you're not at all you're just a freaking.

grifter shut up right right and like. what has and this is why you know when. uh um we when you were on my podcast we. set the uh the internet on fire by uh. cuz I trashed Bill Buckley were like I. completely agree with you you're allowed. to have that I said he was one of the. great villains of the 20th century and. that well he was a gatekeeper for sure. right I mean people start like that. stolid and mous tongue and I'm like okay. fine he was third but the point is the. point is okay there were there were like. five ahead of him okay fine but he was. but I think part of this is that you.

know a lot of the kind of um. conservatism Inc people who who. criticized uh us for saying that and. they're kind of like well how would you. you know this was the guy who was the. most prominent member of the. conservative movement and it's like okay. and so like what exactly was conserved. in his movement what like just expl was. it the Constitution was it what. classical liberal values was it religion. was it tradition was it the definition. of a woman like what exactly was the big. conservative win here I mean like like.

I'll give you something we still we. still have some gun rights okay you know. like I don't know but like you lost. everything you lost the United States of. America and part of the reason a major. reason why is because the whole National. Review um like takeover of the. conservative movement was to drive out. all of the all of the non-intervention. itions all of all of the isol watch. demiz them as racist every single time. watch it happen and the weird yeah don't.

even I'm holding back um no CU that's. like I you know I was adjacent to that. world my entire life and I and I watched. it um happen and you know I knew Bill. Buckley and he was perfectly nice to me. you know didn't hate him or anything but. it was very charming and very smart gu. you I was playing the WASP you know it. was all oppos was it was completely fake. and the only people who sort of bought. it or people who didn't know any better. and thought that was like upper class or. something fake accent weird homoerotic.

stuff and it was like all just kind of. sad actually I thought I thought that. was always my view of it because it was. he was posing um but you know I think he. had good qualities I love sailing so I. kind of you know I'm with him on that um. but in the end you judge the tree by its. fruits and the fruits are just. absolutely rotten and so I think it's. important to be honest about that well I. think the fruits were a trans. of the right wing in America from being. the old right um which was really I mean.

they were fairly. isolationist um but certainly. non-interventionist I mean like you know. Robert Taft was the one who didn't want. us to be in NATO I mean this was like. the old and they they were big on like. um immigration controls sound money and. not getting involved in Wars these were. the people who opposed World War I and. World War II they didn't want American. involvement in these wars right and this. the the effect of Bill Buckley was to. transform what became the conservative. movement into being cold Warriors that. what we do is we go everywhere around. the world looking for a war to fight so.

in other words the people who really. loved America not the idea but the. physical reality of America and her. people the people who actually live here. and their homes and their little towns. and their dumb little jobs and all the. stuff that makes up a civilization at. scale the people who cared about that. somehow became. anti-American right yeah the people who. would lecture you about how America is. an idea and it doesn't really matter who. lives here what those people are for. America I mean it's like a complete.

inversion of reality actually and so. again it's nothing personal against Bill. Buckley who I you know played the played. a mean Harps Accord but um sorry not to. be caddy but uh you know but. like that's a lie yeah the people who. care about actual America are the people. whose side I'm on and I care about. actual America not cuz I'm a good person. I'm really not an especially good person. cuz I got a lot of children who live. here yeah that's what I care about yeah. and like because it's look at this this.

was a really great country and I mean. there are still a lot of great things. about it but it's deteriorating and why. you know why should we be for that and. you know the one of the crazy things. about America is that there is kind of. this uh this idea that we are the United. States of America and have been this. whole time whereas there's really been. like several Revolutions in the country. and and you know what look I mean I I.

think the George George W bush years the. war on terrorism was a revolution of. sorts in the country I I grew up a kid. in the 90s we are not the same country. as we were in the 1990s in the pre-war. on terror there before the Patriot Act. in the Department of Homeland Security. and the TSA I mean the experience at an. airport is a different thing we are a. different country than we were before. that I think Co has changed everything. you know that but even before that I. mean you know as you've talked about a. lot like the in the wake of World War II. the creation of the CIA this was a. revolution in the country where it's it.

changed who's running the government and. we think of the position of President of. the United States of America being the. same position that like you know that. woodro Wilson occupied or something like. that and it's not it's a totally. different position Donald Trump did not. have the same job FDR had they were very. very different and so there is when. people say oh you love America it's like. yes I love this country I don't like the. direction the government's going in I. don't care for these newers and the bush.

thing I have to say I could feel it at. the very beginning I knew him before he. became president I did not want to vote. for him um and didn't I just didn't vote. I did vote for him the second time. because you always get caught up in the. other guy and I knew Carrie and I just. thought Carrie was not impressive at all. so I voted for for Bush but you know I. see Bush still I had a meal with him not. that long ago and talk about a defeated. sad guy. actually bitter. insecure you know given to lecturing.

everyone around him about what a great. president he was and I thought you know. that really is no but that's the fruit. of the tree kind of like if you've had a. success successful life if you've done. the things that you you know if you've. fulfilled your obligation and done the. right thing you're not lecturing people. about what a great person you are right. at all are you no I don't think so no. that's failure actually and like I mean. just he knows I mean yeah come on he. knows to try to spin the George W bush. years is anything other than like an.

absolute failure I mean you know dude. you celebrated mission accomplished and. then we stayed in the war for 20 years. you know just a disaster and left the. country well and and I mean look the Not. only was it all completely unnecessary I. mean like we had like the special ops. response to alqa cells in Afghanistan in. late 2001 totally justify that we had an. opportunity to trap Osama Bin Laden and. torab Bora in late 2001 and they I. believe intentionally let him go so they.

could continue these wars um but. fighting the decision do you think do. you think that's what happened yeah yeah. um and there's um I highly recommend to. anybody uh Scott Horton uh wrote a book. called enough already which is like a. masterpiece it's a history of all the. terror Wars and it. seems Seems overwhelmingly like likely. that they already had their eye on Iraq. and that they knew that if they captured. Osama Bin Laden it'd be very difficult. to sell Another War because we got the.

guy if that's really true I mean that's. that's unspeakably evil yeah well look. it was a it was you know you can read. like through the details of it but there. were a bunch of they knew he was in. Tabora and they were requesting back up. and they were and they didn't give it to. him you know like. it's it certainly seems to be what it. looks like and then it was a decision. that we're going to Cabell that it was a. decision that we're going to overthrow. the Taliban and fight a regime change. War there and then go fight the regime. change war in Iraq and the I mean look.

the like you said judge them by their. fruit I mean the the results of George W. Bush's wars were uh there were trillions. of dollars uh wasted hundreds of. thousands of people in these countries. died and our bravest young men blowing. their brains out by the tens of. thousands I know those are the tangible. results. uh of what happened and it's not even. like we sacrificed that so that these. countries are much better places to live. they're actually worse than they were.

yeah so there you. go you know so great Administration okay. so let me end on this question um. because that's so depressing what you. just said because it's true yeah it is. true and no one was ever punished for it. and in fact rewarded they were all. rewarded for it name the three things. that give you hope outside of your own. family in America right now okay so well. the first one was kind of what I was. touching on before that there is this. there is like a seismic shift in the way.

people are um being exposed the part of. the reason and I know you've you've. talked about this a lot and I think. explained it very well but what you're. seeing out of the establishment what. what you see out of MSNBC when they talk. about Donald Trump or when they talk. about you for that matter is not a. ruling class that is conf that they have. power no they are they are like you know. a a cockroach that's trapped you know. what I mean that's yes you know like uh.

and there's a reason for that and. there's a reason why they're so. hysterical and it's because For the. First Time In certainly in my lifetime. and way well beyond that the um the. Monopoly over the control of information. has truly been broken and that you watch. this during Co where I mean like you and. Joe Rogan had a huge impact on the na. the nation during Co cuz you were like. the two biggest people with the biggest. audiences completely exposing how insane.

the whole narrative was and how insane. all of the the covid restrictions were. and eventually it got to a point where. people just weren't taking it anymore. they weren't listening to fouchy like. you we never had anything like that. before we never had like someone like. Joe Rogan or someone like you doing this. show where you know like in the runup to. say in 2002 the runup to the war in Iraq. there was just no one like that who was. like blowing the whistle with tens of. millions of people listening to them and. explaining how this is all lies we have. that now and they're freaking out about. that and this is really why all the uh.

attempts at Tech censorship happened. since 2016 because they recognized that. like oh Donald Trump can tweet his way. to the White House he doesn't even have. to go through us so we better control. Twitter and you know YouTube and. Facebook and all of these Google and all. of this and even in their attempts to. control it it's NE they've never been as. good as they were at controlling when. there were just three Network. muschter and that I'm very encaged about. that um I'm very encouraged about the.

fact that you know there people are kind. of have access to the truth in a way. that they never did before I think that. I think ideas are powerful and I think. that all governments rely on propaganda. it doesn't work without that and there's. something in that that's really. encouraging in a way it's like oh they. have to they have to convince us before. they can just do it you know like. every okay there's two things that are. seemingly contradictory but they're not. uh number one democracy is an illusion.

it doesn't really exist yes you don't. really ever have democracy you know oh. we get to vote in presidential elections. like even assuming all the votes are. counted in the right way or something. like that it's like yeah you get to vote. when these two parties these private. entities decide who the candidate is and. then you can pick between the two of. them you know what I mean like that's. not really democracy but in another. sense there's always democracy and every. nation no matter how whether they have. free and fair elections or not there's.

always like the there has to at least be. tacid acceptance by the people and if. there's not you know if there's 500,000. people out in the streets screaming at a. dictator about how they want policy X. that dictator is like you know I've been. considering it and we will be. implementing policy acts you know what I. mean like it's CU at the end of the day. there's way more of you than there are. of him totally right can spread ideas we. have a fighting shot I think um so. that's very encouraging to me I think. there's also. been um a huge move away from us.

hegemony internationally which is both. very scary um but is also I think. necessary I think that the American. America spiraling as a country I think. started with us getting off of the gold. standard once government could print as. much money as they want to they make. people Rich for just trading in paper. being Ally connected and you're not. earning anything to become rich and it's. it's devastating and then I think the. unipolar moment was the worst thing that. ever happened to America right you need.

counterbalance winning is often losing. right and so you need there I don't I. want to see it happen in the best way. possible um I think it it it's very bad. in some ways for our country if we're. not the world Reserve currency anymore. but it's ultimately the solution like. it's no good of us being the the fact. that we can just export paper and then. maintain our standard of living isn't. the right I I hope it's a smooth. transition but like I do think there's. something positive in the fact that. that's all changing um so I I think all. of those things make me happy I don't.

know did I hit three in there yeah you. did and let me just just ask you follow. up on one losing our privilege or unique. privilege as the holder of the world's. Reserve currency I mean I that's going. to happen of course it's in progress the. Ukraine war accelerated it yes um but I. haven't looked at the upside of that at. all and I think it's inevitable so it. would be nice to know what the upside is. well I mean if you think. about look all the stuff that so we we. we got this privilege after World War II.

right the Breton wood agreement um and a. lot of the stuff where you talk about. our soul as a country being destroyed it. happened in large part as a result of. that you know because we didn't have to. earn our place in the world anymore we. could just export paper and of course we. immediately started cheating and this is. why Nixon took us off the gold standard. it's not that you know Nixon went off. the gold standard it's that the French. called his bluff we were saying we'll. exchange uh dollars for $35 an ounce and. they went okay we'll take our gold and.

we were like oh wait I'm sorry what was. that and they were like no no no I just. saw you did this whole like you had this. whole Space Program and you fought a war. in Vietnam and you just started all. these entitlement programs you know it. does seem like you've been printing a. lot of money I think we'll take our. goals and then Nixon was like this is an. attack against the US dollar it's like. what do you mean we had a contract and. they were like live up to your end of. the contract and but once we were once. there was no more pretense then we could. just print money like crazy then you. have everybody in Wall Street getting. rich in the 80s you have the tech boom. in the '90s this is all and so I'm just.

saying I think that I don't know that. it's been great for our country to be. the world Reserve currency I think it's. been great for the military-industrial. complex I think it's been great for Wall. Street I don't think it's been good for. our soul and so if I handed you a. billion dollars unearned do you think it. would improve your life or no I think it. it would probably destroy my life you. know because because what do you you. know if you actually start think that. through so then I go like okay so all. right fine so initially okay I could buy. a bunch of cool stuff that's great we. all know that's not really what matters. anyway but it'll for Mo a moment you.

know feel really nice it'll distract you. for for sure right and then it's like. okay so what am I going to do for my. family now like my obviously my I my. kids and my wife are my responsibility. but then like okay what I got a brother. I got a sister I guess I got to hand. them a bunch of money too you know my. brother's like just coming out of grad. school um it's like am I going to hand. him a huge and just take away all of his. drw to like go make it on his own now am. I going to give him nothing and be a. brother who has a billion dollars and. gives him nothing I that's not an option. either I don't know this things get like.

way more complicated very quickly where. you're like No actually that's not the. right answer and also it's not as if I. have like the respect from my family now. like oh my God you're taking care of all. of us like you were handed a billion. dollars you didn't earn anything you. didn't create anything it's like no. that's not you're no longer the man in. your house yeah you don't actually want. that I want to have a nice house because. I. work to to get my family a nice house. you know so yeah no I wouldn't want that. I don't know how I don't know you're one. of the rare people I just share we all.

the same instincts so I don't quite know. how that happened but um thank you that. was a I love that dude thank you so much. I've really really enjoyed being out. here me too Dave Smith. thanks they like worship power they like. grew up wanting to be part of the club. and the only effect you know Teddy. Roosevelt right there he he was like an. actual populist because he grew up in. that world and he's like actually you. all kind of suck and there's nothing.

that you have that I want you know what. I mean I'd rather be in North Dakota. hunting and uh that was his superpower. and I have to say Trump has some of that.