Covid Whistleblower: Predicting Pandemics & Exposing the CIA and Peter Daszak’s Alliance With China

So I think most people have concluded that the  creation of COVID was probably not what they told. us. It probably didn't evolve naturally out of a  pengalin in a seafood market and that the Wuhan. Institute of Urology probably played a role. The  US government played a role. But it is impossible. to find anyone or has been for us anyway to find  anyone who has kind of like direct connection to. any of the of the main players here. None of them  will do an interview. Uh, none. You were the vice.

president of the Eco Health Alliance. Um, your  former military guy, tied to the intel world. You. worked at federal nuclear lab in New Mexico for  years. And then you wind up and you're you're a. scientist, PhD. Uh, and then you wind up working  for Ecoalth Alliance in New York City. You think. it's like this World Wildlife Fund operation  designed to like track diseases among wildlife. globally and protect the wildlife, protect the  people. It's like kind of a crunchy outfit. It's.

dogooders basically. You show up there, you help  them raise a bunch of money from the feds and you. become the vice president and then you discover  it's not what you thought. So that's the story. that you told me at breakfast which was an amazing  story. Thank you again for coming. I'm going to. bow out now and let you continue the story from  there, assuming I've been faithful in my rendition. of of it so far. It's perfectly accurate and  thank you for having me. This is sort of like. a dream of mine. Oh, well, I'm so excited you're  here and because this has been gnawing at me. Um,

you know, where did co come from and how was  the US government implicated? It clearly was, but you never meet anyone who can say  that they know the players, but you do.

So with that, you show up there, you become  VP of Ecoalth Alliance, the now famous Eco. Health Alliance. And when did you start to  realize this wasn't the World Wildlife Fund? shortly after I was working there. So,  I was hired as a senior scientist to. take over a well I learned after the fact. I  sort of lied to but it a failing department. um that was doing predictive forecasting and  analytics and after I brought in all that money. from the department of defense I actually sort  of saved Ecoalth Alliance. It was financially on.

the rocks. Uh that $4 million really transformed  the organization and with that and my expertise. in technology I was actually improving uh the  systems and technology companywide. Uh Peter. Dacic who is the pre president or CEO of Equal  Alliance liked everything that I was doing. He. was very impressed. Peter Dassic is like a figure  out of history now. I mean Peter Dassic is like. at the very center of co Oh absolutely and we'll  we'll get to that. Uh so so Peter promotes me to.

to vice president and then I start attending  executive meetings and I get involved in all. the different other aspects of the company  or at least visibility to what's going on. The main driver of funding of Eco Alliance was  from this program called predict and predict was. funded by USAD to go out and conduct uh global  surveillance of infectious diseases to predict. and forecast emerging pandemics. At least that's  what they were telling everyone they were going to. do. That seems like a virtuous thing to do by the  way. No. And it seemed completely virtuous. And I.

I had actually been doing that type of research  my entire career. Um at least as as a scientist. and engineer. And I was doing that type of work  at the National Laboratory. I continued that work. uh funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency  when I was at Eco Alliance. That's where the first. big check comes from for $4.6 million. And once  I'm promoted and I'm looking at this USAD predict. program, I decided to go dig into the literature  uh and all the technical reports to see what this. is and how it actually works. and I read through  this this phone book of material and I I assess.

that it's a giant boondoggle. There's no way that  they're going to be able to predict or forecast. infectious diseases. They weren't collecting um  enough samples globally or in the countries that. where they were collecting them. Uh they weren't  uh collecting the data on a systematic and routine. basis which is one of the fundamental core  concepts in in bios surveillance. and you start. to ask a question. Well, what So, this is your  area. I should just say like you've done a lot.

of research into how do you model this out? Like,  how do you collect the data? How do you analyze. it? I I I make the bold claim that I'm probably  one of the world's leading experts in the area. I'm one of the few people that actually predict  and forecast uh infectious diseases before they've. occurred. And I've done peer-reviewed literature.  And I was actually so bold when I built my models. and tested them. I actually had this published  in I think it was the the Guardian newspaper, the New York Post. uh before the outbreak hit and  this was the the Zika you remember Zika virus very. well yeah I was working at Eco Alliance one of  the models that I developed um actually forecasted.

the amount of Zika virus that we'd receive in  the United States and where specifically and I. published that before it happened so you you were  very familiar with the technical details of a. study of this kind of monitoring of this kind like  how big is the sample have to be in order to do. this well uh so the devil's always in the details  It depends on the the characteristics of the. infectious disease agent. They're talking about  the population, where that population is located,

the type of infrastructure. There's a lot of  technical nuance because it's how healthy is the. population, what is the probability that they'll  be exposed to something, right? And then what will. be what were the what are the likely transmission  dynamics within that population? And does it have. uh the ability to go from a small isolated  outbreak to an epidemic to a pandemic? So, but because this is your specific area, you look  at the details of what Eco Health Alliance, your. new employer, is now doing. And it's immediately  obvious to you, like instantly obvious that this.

is not real. It wasn't real. And the the real  crazy aspect of here is that once I'm promoted, I'm going to all these different meetings  with uh the funders of the program. So, Dr. Dr. Dennis Carroll, who is the program  manager, program director at USAD, who had a. very close relationship with Dr. Peter Dacic and  these fundraising events we're doing where we're. telling everyone that we're going to go uh we're  going to forecast and p predict uh these emerging. infectious diseases that can cause pandemics. And  I'm sitting in the audience and I'm watching my.

boss and these other people telling everyone  that they're doing this. And like I mentioned, if you look at the technical reports, it's just  very clear that this is not technically possible. So it it begs the question, you know, as me  being an ethical person and a good scientist, an engineer, what are we doing here? Cuz we're not  doing the thing we said we were doing exactly. And. you know, it gets sort of darker than that  real quick. So once I'm sitting in these. these executive meetings, one of the the first  meetings that I sit in is a budget budget a a.

budget a budget and forecasting meeting. Budget  though, that's budget. Good Frogan slip a budget. and forecasting meeting for the company and each  vice president in charge of the area is going. around talking about our budget, how our employees  are doing, you know, operations types of things, typical corporate stuff. And you know, I asked  the question because I'm how much money are we. spending on uh wildlife conservation? And because  when I interviewed at the company and all our.

branding and marketing messaging was that we're  doing infectious disease research to protect. wildlife and engage in conservation activities or  something to that effect. And the room goes quiet. and you know I'm looking at everyone and why is  everyone sort of staring into space or staring at. me. And eventually Peter Dac looks at me and  with sort of a maniacal says we're not doing. we're not doing any conservation work. [Laughter]  And this is like a nightmare system. Yeah. And.

I'm just I'm just shocked. And you know I I I  came directly from the the national laboratory. system uh San Diego National Laboratories. And  I was trying to get away from uh that type of. work. I was actually excited to go work at a  crunchy granola nonprofit organization where. I was protecting wildlife. The Autobon Society.  Yeah. And as we as we were discussing earlier, we're both avid outdoorsmen. We love nature. that  kind of thing. And I thought I was going to get. into more of that. I was excited like, "Hey, maybe  I'll get a chance to have a trip out to the the.

woods or the jungle and go protect some wildlife."  And I hear this and I'm like, "Okay." And uh, you know, I I I digest it. I of course I don't  say anything. It's my boss, my other the other. executives. And then it drives more questions, you  know, what what are we doing here? And so I I sat. and sat in more executive meetings. I learned  more. And I I quickly, you know, learned that. we we're sort of functioning as a beltway bandit  type of operation, meaning that we're trying to. get large contracts and grants in our area,  which is in theory predicting and forecasting.

um infectious diseases. But really what we were  doing was um the simplest way of explaining is. that we were running around the planet collecting  infectious disease samples to build a bank or a. library of infectious diseases which was odd.  And I'm sorry to keep laughing. It's so this. is so dark. I don't it's I can't help it. Well, it  was odd from the standpoint I was still looking at. this as a scientist trying to figure out what we  were doing. And there's not a ton of publication.

value in um cataloging infectious diseases. You  can get one simple publication from identifying a. new or novel pathogen in a species, but it's sort  of a oneanddone thing. It doesn't really drive. um future research, right? So, if you you find  you discover something, it's great, you found it, it's a publication, but that's not going to drive  your next cycle of funding because t typically you. want to be very strategic about this. Well, then  if you start to look at the other portfolio uh. of research at Eco Alliance and what some of my  peers, other vice presidents and in their areas.

of research, what they were up to and the the  places where our employees had joint employment. or co-employment with and the work that they  were doing, it became apparently obvious uh we. were engaging in gain of function research uh and  and viral discovery to make new novel pathogens. and I wanted nothing to do with Well, Grand Canyon  University is not like most American colleges. It. focuses on the things that actually matter. It is  not a ripoff. It is the real thing. It's private,

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what they advertised on LinkedIn. No, this is  Well, it wasn't even LinkedIn. It was actually. their website. But uh you get it. the the the the  funny part is if you look at the gain of function. work and how they were even spinning it was  that they were trying to even make the argument. scientifically in the peer-reviewed literature  that this gain of function work that they were. doing and this was through Dr. Ralph Bareric's  laboratory at the University of North Carolina.

uh that they could model and simulate pandemic  potential from the gain of function work and that. in itself is a scientific fraud in my opinion.  It's not really possible to predict how a disease. will spread in the community um either animals,  humans, uh wildlife from looking at the genetics. and doing gain of function work. That's what they  the argument that they were effectively making. back to the US government and other sponsors of  our research portfolio. Um in my book I discussed.

this but you know Dr. Anthony Fauci gets a lot of  the blame um for this GAN of function work and I. I wrote numerous uh whistleblower complaints. I  think I wrote whistleblower complaints to every. US agency involved DoD, DHS, USDA, Fish and  Wildlife. Um it's a long list the CIA which. we can get to uh in a little bit. So it's very  clear that the research that we're doing had. an earlier origin than Dr. Anthony Fouchy and  that's really us and maybe the state department.

formulating a relationship with the Chinese  at the Wuhan Institute of Viology. And if you. follow the proposals or scientific proposals and  technical proposals which were submitted to the US. government and trace that back and I have all the  original documents to prove this, it looks like. the path for developing the gain of function  partnership with the Chinese bioweapons lab.

u began around 2010 or 11. What was the purpose  of that relationship? Well, at the time I had no. idea. And this is specifically u I'm talking  like 20 uh 15 2016, right? Uh fast forward. to today I have much more information where I  can sort of you know I thought about this in in. great detail and had have had a number of other  interviews and I came to the conclusion that.

uh the purpose real purpose actually of Ecoith  Alliance doing this gain of function research. with the Wuhan Institute of Viology was for us  to collect intelligence on the Chinese bioweapons. lab. And you know, I had this very interesting  moment when I worked at Ecoalth Alliance where. um it was it was around the holidays. I think  it was in late 2015. Um I was working late to. finish our project and Dr. Dic was working  late on a project and actually as a co-orker.

um working with Dr. Peter Dac was fantastic. He  was uh extremely hard worker, very diligent. Um. he knew the publication game. He knew how to  woo the people, the program sponsors that were. uh funding our work. So, professionally, I I loved  working with him in that aspect. Smart. Very well, I would say cunning. Yeah. I don't think he was  much of a scientist. Actually, I think he's very. weak as a scientist and engineer, but uh in terms  of a project manager and a program manager, uh he.

was very very strong. Yes. So, we're leaving.  We're locking up the office. We're in the vest. ve best vestibial up on the 15th floor of our our  building in New York City and he goes, "Andrew, do. you mind if I ask you a question?" It's my boss.  Sure, Peter. Go ahead. Well, somebody from the CIA. approached me and they're interested in the places  we're working, the people we're working with in.

the data that we're collecting. Do you think it's  a good idea that that I that I speak with them? And he just said a lot of things which just  set off all my alarms because I came from the, you know, I'm a product of, you know, the  so-called deep state of the national security. complex. I held a top secret clearance. And  here's my boss telling me that he had a side. conversation with the CIA. And I have all these  immediate thoughts. Does was he really talking to. someone from the CIA? Was it someone pretending  to be from the CI? Exactly. Because I'm like,

does this guy know what he's dealing with? And  exactly. Um, you know, I had had to say something. I said, "Peter, it never hurts to speak with him.  There could be money in it." And it was, I think, a very honest, direct assessment of what he had  just told me. We made small talk. We went down. uh the elevator and we went our separate ways.  I walked home to my my place up on the 40 45th. uh street and that was the end of it. Well,  over the next, you know, several weeks, uh in between meetings at the coffee cooler, I had  asked Peter, I'm like, "Hey, how's that thing with.

the the CIA going?" And you know, you know, he  wouldn't say much, but you know, the you know, sort of indicated that it was progressing. And  about the third time I asked him, he was mum about. it. He didn't want to he didn't want to talk about  it anymore. And so, I don't know if he was trying. to tell me what he was actually up to because  I was from that world or um if he just really. wanted my honest opinion. I I have no idea. But  now fast forward to SARS KV2 COVID and everything.

that's happened. It's very clear to me that  Peter Dacic was probably used as a CI asset to. uh obtain access to that laboratory. And the  way that we obtained access to that laboratory, because mind you, it was well known in my  circles going all the way back to when I. was a PhD student that this laboratory in Wuhan  was the essentially the Chinese uh military's. bioweapons laboratory. So, how would you get  access to it, right? They're not going to allow.

Westerners to just come in. And where Senator  Ran Paul and a number of other congressmen have. been completely wrong about this in opinion, and  I've told them so in writing, is that this wasn't. uh the US government giving the Chinese $400,000  to to conduct gain of function research. I mean, just think about how preposterous this is. Yeah.  They don't they don't need the money. They don't. need the money, right? So So what do they need?  What do you think? Technical expertise, I would.

think. And what else? The actual technology. Yeah.  So the technical expertise and the technology. So. the trade that was made is that we were actually  transferring advanced biotechnology from Dr. uh Ralph Bareric's laboratory to the Chinese  for access to the laboratory so we could. collect intelligence on it. And some of that  might, you know, fall under the the umbrella. of scientific diplomacy, which I'm actually a  huge proponent of, but not with the Chinese. and and that's where I so I don't know I have no  you know I have no way to evaluate what you're.

saying but except against things I've seen in  other areas and that is exactly how the world. works what you just said that that is that's how  things really are right is the US government makes. deals with people that they not really on their  you know whoever it is Gaddafi Maduro I mean. there's long-standing and ongoing relationships  with a lot of people I think the public would be. shocked to know we're in relationship with But  the motive is always the same. The closer I get,

the more intel I can gather. I think your your  your assessment of the the global scheme of which. how the US government operates and and formulates  relationships is accurate. Oh, I've seen it. And. I think a lot of that is doctrine. You know,  they want to try to obtain close relationships. with the highest ranking government officials  possible. And sometimes the the methods and how. they do that are questionable, but it's always the  same. I mean, you'll be this literally happened. to me the other day. You're talking to, you know,  well-informed person and they're like, "Oh, yeah,

yeah, I knew so and so." It's like, "What? What?  How in the world were you connected to that person. who's bad kind of the human equivalent of the  Wuhan Institute of Urology?" And it's like, "Well, because like that person is someone who has a lot  of information that we want." Oh, absolutely. And. and I' I've met a number of intel agents from  various agencies that that showed me pictures. of the very high-profile evil people they're  working with. Of course. And I I I actually have.

no problem. Omar Gaddafi was working with MSAD and  CIA. Yeah. Right. So, of course, and I'm not even. attacking anybody at all. I'm just saying that  is the actual truth of the world that I have seen. personally. So and and I I I I agree with your  truth and I think the the more questionable part. is why are we giving advanced technologies to our  enemies? And where this this really gets strange. is that back when I did work at Eco Alliance, I  did object to working with the Chinese. So the.

next phase of predict funding is coming along.  Predict 2. Okay. Okay. So predict is the program. that you described earlier that supposedly  monitors global wildlife populations to get a. head start on preparing for a pandemic. Well, it's  to predict and forecast it. Predict and forecast. So maybe maybe get a head start could be a more  accurate framing or at least have an assessment. of what's circulating area. That that's probably  a fair characterization. But predict two, they're. basically going to continue this boondoggle  operation and expand the portfolio research with.

China. And once I was promoted to vice president,  they put me onto the predict program at my own. request because it was sort of the sexy thing that  Equal Health Alliance was doing and I wanted to be. a part of it because you get by name on more  publications, more notoriety. And they wanted. to make me a country coordinator and I ended up  being the one of the country coordinators for. um Sudan and then also Jordan. And then Peter  Dassic floated that I uh help him with China. And. I when that came up in the meeting, I said I want  nothing to do with this. I'm, you know, still my.

top secret clearance is in good standing. I object  to us doing the work with China. And I actually. said in the medium like, "Aren't you the slightest  bit concerned that the Chinese are going to do. something nefarious like they're going to steal  our intellectual property? Um there, you know, the Chinese have a pattern of lie, cheat, and  steal. So why why do we want to do this work with. China?" And I said that in the executive meeting.  And I was trying to protect the company more so. even just the national security risk side of it.  I was trying to protect the company. And you know,

Peter gave a very political response that, you  know, the the work with China is very important. and there this this relationship that we have with  the Chinese is very important. Really, I think the. the only thing that was important to Peter is the  fact that this Chinese at least cut out of the. bigger contract was a lot of money. Exactly. And  you know, he had already been sort of flipped as. a intel asset to collect the Chinese in the lab  and this wasn't going away and this was all the. the window dressing to make it look legitimate.  We're sorry to say it, but this is not a very safe.

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Burna.com. Yeah, I again I don't have any  background information. So like you could. tell me anything, but everything you're saying  sounds right to me just based on what I have. seen. Can I just back up a tiny bit and ask some  practical questions about what Eco Health Alliance. was doing? So you said um before you got to the  portion where they were acting as an intel asset. which sounds right um you said they were compiling  collecting a library of viruses from around.

the world how does that work ex like how do you  collect a virus in a Sudan for example any country. how do you do that sure so it's a I guess my in  my mind it's very straightforward but typically. first you form a relationship with the diplomatic  mission so the embassy the consul for the United. States they might refer you to either hospitals,  professors, other academics or company in country. or maybe you already have those relationships  from past work that you've done. You then go on.

a trip to that country and you go sort of do an  assessment of their laboratories. Um you collect. sort of information, try to gauge these people  have the capability, do you know what they're. doing? Are they going to spend our our money  wisely? So it's it's a business trip and it's very. business focused and you're assessing their their  capabilities. Then once you have a good feeling. with their capabilities, you begin the contracting  process with that foreign entity. And if you're. doing everything by the book, you run these people  through US government systems to make sure they're.

not terrorists or evil people. So we're not giving  money to terrorists. That didn't happen at Equal. Health Alliance. It did not happen. Um I found  out about that after the fact as well. But we. try to figure out who these people are and then  if they're capable oftentimes as universities, you know, either the the A school or at a foreign  university, the veterary school or human human. medical center, then we we formulate the contract,  we send them the cash, and then they would either. go out and collect the samples or we would travel  or have our personnel travel to go collect the.

samples. So, if we're talking about bats, it  depends what species you're dealing with, right? dealing with bats, you set nets or traps in a  bat cave, for example, you catch the bat in the. net and then you go out there in your personal  protective equipment and you take u fecal swabs, um blood, saliva from the animal and then you  then package that so that the DNA will not be. degrade and transport back to the laboratory.  And then depending where's the laboratory? Well,

it depends on what country you're working in.  So every country had we had different agreements. with contractually about who owned the samples,  who would store the samples. And the other thing. that's happening in the in the background here is  that techn is advancing. Yes. Okay. So at one time. in this type of research, you actually had to have  the physical sample. Today we're at a point you. no longer have to have the physical sample. you  can actually send the bi the the DNA or RNA code.

digitally to somebody else and they can recreate  it. So this field has advanced tremendously over. over 10 years and this is taking place this  advancement while we're doing this work oftent. times the samples then were physically transported  back uh to the United States or mailed or shipped. you can mail a deadly bat virus from a third world  country to the US. Well, there's a a manual from. the CDC in USDA uh and HHS of how to transport  samples. So, yes, there are rules and process.

of how you can So, almost all of that mail goes  on commercial airliners typically and and there's. really not a whole lot of of risk from a collected  sample. First of all, you don't even know at this. point whether there's a new deadly virus present  in the sample in the bat [ __ ] or Yeah. the. saliva. You have no clue. Once it gets back to the  United States and then it goes, at least at Eco. Alliance, it would go to uh Ian Lipkins laboratory  at Columbia University where he was a specialist.

in he's a pretty well-known viral epidemiologist  with really good lab chops. And um another doctor. worked with us named Simon Anthony would work with  him to isolate and well first identify and isolate. new viruses or novel novel viruses. So that's  where it typically took place. Then the mechanics. of this or operations of this that information or  sample would be sent to another laboratory like. Ralph Bareric's laboratory where he would continue  the work down at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill and do.

the gain of function work. It's just just can I  just approach this from an artistic perspective? So what you're saying is there are like people  around the world in bat caves in some far away. country sending potentially novel and dangerous  viruses to New York City like all the time and. people are not even aware of this. There's a  huge I wouldn't say huge but I mean a non-trivial. trivial amount of these types of samples being  shipped around the world globally and if they're.

properly contained and packaged it's really that  much that not that much of a risk and actually. Dr. Ralph Beric developed some of these methods  of how to send what's called a chimeriic virus. on a sheet of paper and an envelope which is low  risk. Uh the bigger risk becomes when you start. to clone or replicate that agent at scale. um you  know, human medicine, public health, epidemiology, transmission risk, how you look at this, you have  to have a substantial quantity of a virus, which.

is, you know, a substance mixed in the air or be  exposed to it to become infected with it because. you have an immune system that works, okay? And  sometimes you get exposed to these things and. you don't even know it because your immune system  fights it off, right? So the I think sometimes the. risk is overblown and the fear around transporting  samples, I think most of the time that's actually. pretty low risk. There's been a series of uh  transporting accidents which occurred from 2008 to. 201 uh 12 or 14 I want to say which actually led  to the the ban or partial ban on gain of function.

research what kind of accidents uh there one of  the high-profile ones was that um I think it was. basillus anthraasis was being shift shipped from  one of our um US government BSL four laboratories. under CDC control um to another laboratory and it  missing and they found it sitting in the corner. Some porch pirate stole it. No, it wasn't a porch  pirate, but they found it someplace and it wasn't. properly secured or in completely off the Yeah,  I mean we live in a world with like Chernobyl.

and misdiagnosis and I mean I believe in I think  there are a lot of you know rigorous responsible. scientists but you know people make mistakes  I mean over and over time and with scale like. mistakes will happen right? Well, and we actually  dealt with this type of um low probability, high. consequence threat risk analysis all the time at  at San Die National Laboratories. And the the big. issue is what you you just brought up, the human  in the loop. Usually the the engineered systems. um you can engineer those precisely to account for  some whatever probability or consequence of risk,

but it's always the human making a decision or  behavior action involved in the system that makes. a mistake which causes some kind of catastrophic  failure. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. So um okay. I just was just interested. So then you say that  they Eco Alliance was compiling a library of these. viruses they be stored in one place. Well yes they  had digital a digital library at Eco Alliance and. then there's other systems that they um the US or  I should say not only the United States but the.

global uh viologist community maintain of genetic  information on viruses. M um but the actual. viruses, the living organisms, were they stored  anywhere? Typically, we were buying uh negative. 80C centigrade freezers as fast as we could or  as as many as we could afford and storing those. at Columbia University and other laboratories  where these things go in the freezer and they. set. And the the one nice thing is if the freezer  does fail, it usually destroys all the sample on.

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where you will regret being prepared. What's the  security like at a lab like that? I in my opinion. I tend to think that it's it's laughable. Um and  I've actually laughable at most most university. laboratories. If you were to do a red team or  penetration test and me coming on the national. security being a biocurity biosafety expert, you  could get into most university laboratories. They. they would I heard arguments from other scientists  who worked in these laboratories. Well, you know,

we have good physical security. We have  card scanners. We have this good physical. I'd love to know that actually what those guys  actually look like. Who the the scientist? Good. physical security. Oh, it I mean I if you are a  motivated attacker and you're well trained, you. can get into one of these laboratories. It would  it would it would not be overly difficult. Now, has this improved and has this change changed?  Are all the laboratories the same? I mean I. think many of the uh BSL 3 or four which are the  higher level or highest level laboratories in the.

United States now have pretty good um or strong  uh physical security but when you look at what's. actually happened in terms of accidents and lab  leaks uh throughout history in recent history I. mean speaking of this you know Ralph Bareric in  his laboratory he's had a series of leaks uh at. his laboratory o over years you know where people  their employees have gotten sick and typically. it's one of the people working in the laboratory  is accidentally exposed and because it's a virus. that you can't see and the way that uh disease um  incubates inside a person and how and how the bio.

bioevent timeline is we call it the amount of time  it takes for a person to become sick they leave. the lab and then they become sick at home and then  that's when the disease becomes a transmission. risk to the community. So that's just the the very  nature of how people behave, how people work in. the laboratory, how human biology and physiology  works. I mean this is the nature of the beast. and it it's very difficult uh to prevent those  types of um risks I guess to the community and.

the greater population. No, this is why we have  Lyme disease. Yeah. Which I got. So yes. No, I'm. very aware of that and I think everyone's aware  of that. So with that in mind, gain of function. is inherently dangerous. Correct. I've always been  against it. It it actually divides the scientific. community or it used to uh pre-COVID. But I think  there's probably more more scientists and experts. against gain of function. It seems like the  certainly the general population uh is against. it. Not all gain of function technology is bad. Uh  for example, insulin is made from a form of gain.

of function and there are many diabetic people and  they require insulin. Now if we're talking about. gain of function research on pathogens which have  pandemic potential, it's it's a no-brainer. It's a. it's a stupid idea. And this is why it splits the  scientific community. So one one camp says there's. no use to this. I don't understand why we're doing  it in the first place. Therefore, we shouldn't do. it. The other camp argues, well, if we can predict  how these viruses will mutate, then we can develop.

counter measures, vaccines or drugs to counter the  threat before it emerges. And that opinion, and. I've always held this belief that that the people  who have that opinion are wrong. And the reason. why they're wrong is that you have to be like  God. And you have to know and be able to predict. how something will genetically evolve over time.  Yeah. And if you look back through human history, it's always humans trying to correct nature which  have failed. The introduction of the brain brown.

snake in and Guam. I mean, there's all these  things where they've uh that was a hitchhiker. scenario, but where they try to introduce some  kind of predator to eliminate some kind of bad. pest. You see this repeatedly throughout history  that we can correct um a complex system which is. nature. Of course, that's what geoengineering is.  And that's why it's like destroying our forests. because they're spraying, you know, particulate  matter into the air to counteract global warming. and they can't they're not gods, so they're not  doing it right. And it's Well, that's interesting. that you bring that up. So, I used to work with  the geoengineers and I wonder how much scale it's.

actually occurring. So, and you know, people talk  about contrails and you know, that's that being. geoengineering. It's not. Most of these these  stations are groundbased, but it's very expensive. um from a scientific and engineering perspective.  If you were going to to to launch a a large scale. geo um engineering project that was um earthbased,  it takes a lot of material and that the material. cost a lot of money. So I I don't think it's  happening at a large scale that people believe.

The more effective geoengineering technology  exists are actually satellite deployed systems. which act as solar shades. And I don't think  any of that exists, but we are putting more. things into space all the time. And it a lot  of this is either not classified or secret, but it's not exactly visible either. So, you know,  who knows what people are shooting. Exactly. And. there's a massive disinformation campaign against  anyone who ask questions about it, which tells. you it is real. Yes. Like UAPs. But anyway,  without getting into all of that stuff. So,

um, you are asked like, "Hey, Dr. Huff, would you  like to go to to China?" And you say no. I say no. and and two reasons. One to protect the company  and also because I wanted to maintain my security. clearance in in good standing. And when it's  not that you can't have foreign relationships, but it becomes more complic complicated for  your reinvestigation in the future if you have. relationships with a country like China. And I've,  you know, from a national security perspective,

I've always been against what the Chinese have  been doing, and that's lie lying, cheating, and stealing from us. And we never get anything  out of the relationship. It seems it's been a very. abusive one-way relationship from the Chinese. And  I and I knew this going back to my military days. And I had actually been invited to do other  collaborative work with the Chinese at other. institutions and places I've worked sort of tied  to national security and I I always stayed away. from it because I never saw any benefit to it. And  well, if the government wants to the US government.

wants to to fund this or this entity wants to  that's fine. I can protest by just not being a. part of it. So you leave Eco Health Alliance after  a few years, then COVID happens. Yes. And um when. it happens, everyone thinks I'm sort of the crazy  one. And what how this actually transpires is I. was working at Juel Labs ecigarette company  as a senior director of population health. uh living in the Bay Area. And because of what  I did for a living and my expertise, you know,

I catch wind of this virus uh spreading around  the planet. It was very obvious that um people. in on the West Coast were becoming sick in I want  to say uh late November, December 2019. You know, another really weird thing happened. So, I'm  making more money than I've ever made in my life. at this company, and I was very grateful for that.  Was able to pay off all my debt. But I received a. phone call from a woman by the name of Dr. Amy  Jenkins who works at ARPA H now I think she's.

the assistant director there or deputy director  I can't remember what her title is but I know Amy. from years back I actually met her while I was  a PhD student at the University of Minnesota at. a DH department of homeland security center of  excellence she had shown up to a few meetings. of ours she was working with the department of  defense at that time and uh the intelligence. services and um she's a great you know scientist  and um very friendly relationship with her and she.

contacts me and she informs me that she's uh now  working uh with DARPA and offers me a position as. a program manager in the biological programs  directorate. And you know, I thought it was. sort of odd that she had contacted me on my brand  new San Francisco area phone uh cell phone. So, I had a new phone number cuz I relocated and I  wanted San Francisco area code. I didn't I didn't. think too much of it and I couldn't figure out the  why she wanted me to come be the director of this.

biological program. I'd been trying to get away  from national security intelligence type work for. several years and I kept on keep on getting dra  dragged back into it seemed. And I said, you know, thanks Amy. I'm not really interested in this  right now. I'm making a lot of money. This pays. far more than what you know DARPA can pay me.  I want to keep what I'm doing. And she's like, "Well, you know, go home and and speak with  your your wife, Emily. If you change your mind, um, we'd like to both bring you on. We'll find a  home for Emily, too, cuz she's a scientist." And.

that's very, you know, common in in the scientific  community, the two body problem. And go home, talk, speak with Emily about it, and, you know,  give me a call back tomorrow and let me know what. you think. Said, "Okay, Amy, I'll do that." So,  went home, had a conversation with my wife. Hey, do you want to move back to the beltway or move  move to DC, have, you know, fed jobs and go work. in that environment? And uh my wife had previously  worked at at USDA and she didn't want to go back. to it and like call up Amy there say you know  thank you uh you know for for contact me at. one point this was in my career this was actually  my dream job to be running a a have a blank check.

from the department of defense to go develop  all the the coolest biotechnology world. I mean. seriously I had dreamed at that job at one point  in my life. I didn't want it. Yeah. And so I told. her no and she's like, "Well, you know, if you  change your mind uh in the next few weeks, we'd. really like to have you. You call me anytime." And  that was it. Well, okay, that that phone call took. place uh late September, early October 2019. Fast  forward today with what we know is that the DARPA.

had held um a a contest or I I want to say not so  much a contest but put out a uh RFP a request for. proposals related to something called preempt  which was uh preventing emerging infectious. disease threats and one of the proposals was  something called diffuse from my former employer. called Ecoalth Alliance uh which was basically the  recipe for SARS KV2 which was done in partnership.

with the Wuhan Institute of Viology. So,  you know, I'm sort of hopping around here, but the reason why this is important is now I  believe that DARPA was actually trying to recruit. me back into the program. So, I wouldn't have  done any of the things that I've done over the. last four years essentially and which is tell the  truth in public. tell the truth in public about. what the origin of SARS KV2 is, but back going  back on your your timeline here. So, I had limited.

information back then and I knew a pandemic  was coming. So, I told my wife we need to get. the heck out of the Bay Area as fast as possible.  This could go off the rails. I actually believed. uh the information I seen was seeing which I think  was a SC potentially targeted at me that this. disease would be much more severe than it was. I'm  not saying that that it wasn't a severe disease. I. mean it wasn't as bad as they were making it seem  meaning. Oh I believed it too. Oh absolutely. Well.

they they had portrayed it though that something  that in epidem you mean in like January February. of 2020 correct? Oh yeah. So the they were  painting a portrayal and scientifically in EP. epidemiology we have something called the case  fatality rate. So of how many people get sick? How many die? Like this thing is going to kill  everyone like 80 90% of the population could die. from this disease. That's how they were portraying  this right. It turns out that that that number was. much lower and somewhere in the you know in the  percentage category not the 70 80 or 90%. So I.

went real quick from thinking that this was going  to be the thing that could you know [ __ ] society. um to being I'm not wearing a mask in public,  right? But but my behavior and action in earlier. uh early 2020 the first weeks I start looking  for a place in a remote area. So, I'm considering. Alaska, Maine, Northern Maine, uh, western  Wyoming, or the up, Michigan. Um, my search. criteria based on what I knew as an expert. You  want to have access to an airport, transportation, high-speed internet, um, an hour drive from a  major city, city center that's not too populated,

cuz if it's going to end the planet, it's  going to kill everyone. You want distance. um, from other people to break transmission  cycles, at least you can isolate yourself. So, um, I bought a year supply worth of MREs.  I start stockpiling other things, you know, some ammunition, make a plan, and my wife and I  land in the UP of Michigan. Everyone, you know, sort of thought I was crazy for doing this, and  next thing you know, everybody wants to come visit.

me during the lockdowns. They said, they said,  "You were right about everything." And, you know, I live this, too. Yes. In in the back of my mind  though, um I'm thinking about constantly that and. I know that Eco Health Alliance had been engaged  in this gain of function work at Eco Health or. excuse me at the Wuhan Institute of VH vyology and  I'm like a bad corona virus emerging in Wuhan and. you know I'm watching this these watching the news  and the TV at you know through 2020 and they're.

like oh it was a you know a a pengalin or it was  the wet market and I'm arguing arguing on social. media that that's not possible, that doesn't  make sense from an emerging infectious disease. standpoint because a wet market in the specific  wet market in China is um a seafood market. That's. why it's called a wet market. Yes. But you know,  Western Americans are it's not for mammals. It's. for creatures from the sea. Yeah. People in  the United States have a very myopic view of, you know, the world typically. And Oh, I know.  I'm sitting here arguing. I'm like, this is a fish.

market. And in fact, I'm looking at the pictures  of it and my assessment is like, this is the kind. of place I'd go buy groceries. You live in New  York City, a very nice uh very nice place. So, I'm. like, none of this is adding up. And, you know,  you're watching the story evolve. And next thing. you know, my former boss, Dr. Peter Daskic, is put  on the the committee that's sent over by the World. Health Organization to go investigate the origin  of the disease. And this is getting weirder and. weirder and weirder. And I know all the players  involved. I mean, I had met and worked with um not.

Dr. Anthony Fouchy himself, but his deputy, Dr.  Morren. I had been out to dinner with him. I mean, I knew all the players in this big thing. I mean,  I had been groomed since I was a PhD student to. be a Dr. Anthony Fouchy replacement or that type  of person. So, I mean, I I knew all the people. in in in in the system and and working on these  things and the program managers, the officers, the different branches of the government. So,  I'm watching this all play out and I just can't. believe it. And it's the kind of thing where I'm  yelling at my computer screen in private like they.

put, you know, they put [ __ ] Dr. Daskic in  charge of like investigating the origins. He's. probably the one that caused it. And little did I  know that this was all part of the psychological. operation and cover up and I just start becoming  more callous, entrenched about really really going. on. So, how can you uh explain that a little bit?  What What does that mean? Well, why would putting. the guy who had a hand in the creation of the  virus in charge of investigating the origin of. the virus be part of a scop to give the perception  that it's a independent person that's wellrusted.

within the wildlife community and the scientific  community that we know you're doing can trust. what we're saying because if you look at how the  psychological psychological operation was waged. and I'm not just saying the US government but  multiple entities the pharmaceutical industry, the big companies that back all these different  things, special interest just generally. Um, you take the guy who's responsible, you put him  in charge in the investigation. He's certainly,

you know, that he's not going to tie it back to  himself, but he's already been branding himself. for years and decades as being a person that  cares, you know, a crunchy NGO person and he has. the relationships in wealthy communities on the  West Coast and East Coast, the elite to convince. them that this is, you know, a naturally emerging  disease from the wet market. So, you know, he's already the point man. He's already sold  everyone all this [ __ ] related to we're going. to go and forecast pandemics and really he's the  guy who caused one. It's it's really Yeah. Thank.

you for saying I just wanted you to explain that  a little more fully. I've again lived this seen. it and it is effective because it's so shocking  that someone would do that. It's so brazen the. hood required to do something like that. You  take not just like some random guy, but the guy. who's responsible and you start telling everyone  he's the savior. Wow, man. That the human brain, a normal person is bewildered by that. Is thrown  off balance by that. Well, at least in in my life,

and we were discussing this a little bit at  breakfast, the more of you see of this trickery, the more that you're exposed, and they actually  talk about this in in the psychological research, the more often times the the more aware you  become of a phenomenon, the more you see it. And then once you start saying it, you can't stop  seeing it. And that's how they say, you know, people become conspiracy theorists because they  see see the conspiracy theorists. And well, that's why very few young people I think this  is changing fast, but my whole life like young. people always bought the story. Then you meet guys  in their 70s, particularly people who work for the.

government. Um, and I've known a lot of those who  would get more conspiracy- minded as they aged. Have you ever noticed this? Oh, absolutely.  Yeah. And that's just why is that? Well, experience experience in living life and and I do  that now. I'm I'm 43. And you see someone in their. their 20s or 19, they have a very idealistic uh  view of the world. And I used to be one of those. people. Oh, tell me about it. I made it to my late  30s with that, you know, but mid-30s. But anyway,

um, wow, that's wild. So, you're sitting up at the  UP with your scientist wife watching this stuff on. CNN going, you must be like going bonkers watching  this. Well, internally and I I was working on. a startup company and I was um distracted by by  other things and you know because I was I was in. the UP this was only via social media or the news  so I'm pretty detached from it. Um what happens is. in late 2021 the operation trends focus towards me  because now I'm being I think viewed as a threat.

based on some of the things I put on LinkedIn  at the time and other social media posts that. I could I needed to be contained in some way. And  what sort of things were you saying? I so it was. really Dr. Malone and I and a few other people who  were trying to remain anonymous. I know who they. are. We're just telling the truth. So um first of  all um around around the disease that this was not. a naturally emerging pathogen and I could tell  that it was not based on a number of facts based.

how this disease was spreading the type of agent  it was the coincidence that we had been funding. this exact type of work and I had the original  documents at this laboratory. It was just that. their story and and how the people in involved  were um saying things about the disease just which. weren't true and how specifically how this type  of disease would emerge. I mean that's what my my.

PhD is in. I mean I've worked in this field and I  kne I knew that these people knew that they were. lying because these people were qualified experts  as well. So why are these people lying about how. this disease would emerge? Great question.  And so they you it drives more questions, right? Every time you have something that's weird  or doesn't fit the pattern or isn't the thing that. it's supposed to be, you ask more questions.  And as this, you know, the timeline of CO is. uh is is happening or occurring, you know, so  we're going through the lockdowns. They're trying.

to get the the vaccine operation warp speed.  They're trying to do all these things. that's. all distracting everyone from the origin question  and the people involved in the origin discussions. and the psychological operation of it was that in  in my opinion is that they were actually trying to. get society bogged down in the technical details.  If very sophisticated scientific jargon which. very few people were qualified to understand or  argue or debate and then label it as those people.

were the only people were qualified experts to be  able to debate. So therefore, there was no debate. allowed and I wasn't buying. I wasn't I wasn't  [ __ ] having it. I was It was driving me nuts. Well, because you were a qualified expert,  so you didn't have to buy it. Well, and I'm. highly competitive and those so-called qualified  experts, I thought I was better than them. Yeah. And I look at where we're sitting today. Um I'm  sitting here in this chair speaking with you, telling you the truth. And I think my argument,  the psychological operation I wage back against.

um the population via social media and other  channels and and how I did has been completely. successful. I was the in I mean from day one I had  been saying that this was a laboratory leak and. you look at most of the population today everyone  I think globally believes that it came out of the. laboratory I think the people are tied to it  you know are still trying to make the penglin. or natural emergency funny eco I went on the eco  health I think eco health alliance is gone or sort. of gone now it's defunct yeah defunct yeah but on  their website which still exists I looked at it. last night um they have an attack on you of course  lacking all specifics you're familiar orthololis,

but on it they say, you know, Dr. Huff makes the  totally unsubstantiated claim that this uh virus. escaped from a lab when we know and the scientific  consensus states that it emerged naturally out. of an animal population. Well, the when they  wrote that, they knew that wasn't true. Oh, absolutely. And they put out other weird smear  tactics and they had worked with the the media. to smear me. The the best my favorite smear. So  the the day that my my publication came out, there.

was a story I think that ran in the the New York  Post and it claimed that um I was wrong that I had. never worked in the the Wuhan lab. Well, that was  attribution error. I I never I never had claimed. that I worked No. In fact, you just explained  that you didn't want to work in China. Correct. But they they they that's how they were trying to  scope the argument that I was a liar. The New York. Post. That would not surprise me. And I just want  to say for the record, the New York Post is one.

of the most dishonest publications in the world  and is very often used by the intel agencies and. other bad actors to lie to the public. It's also  hilarious. It's a great newspaper in certain ways. And so it's the And same with Daily Mail. Exactly  the same. and they sort of lull you into believing. them because they've got a sense of humor and  they cover great stories and they're sort of. vaguely right-wing, but actually it's a vector for  for disinformation and for lying on behalf of the. intel agencies. That's just what it is. That's  most mainstream media. I think it is. It is. But.

I think the New York Post and Daily Mail are Wall  Street Journal also Fox News for sure. But they're. more sinister because people believe them cuz hey,  it's Fox News. It's the daily It's the Daily Mail. It's the New York Post. Especially the New York  Post. Like everyone headless body and topless bar, man. It's the coolest paper in the world. They  wouldn't do that. Oh, they do it constantly. I. agree. Um I mean, what do you do about it when  you're You tell the truth about it. That's all.

you can do. But um and they'll I mean, they'll  all those companies are failing and they'll all. be gone soon and I won't lament their passing.  But anyway, so tell me what they did to contain. control and punish you once you started telling  the truth. So in late the timeline starting to get. a little foggy. It's you know this this has been  ongoing saga. I think I was in late 2021 or mid to. late 2021. I was contacted by uh some journalists.  So journalists start trying to contact me and ask.

me questions because they figure they're probably  who's this tough guy? Doesn't he know what he's. talking about? They're probably trying to frame  me as a crazy. Uh Miranda Divine uh contacts me a. pretty prominent journal journalist and asks me on  on the telephone um where she should look for more. records related to this gain of function research  and because I'd worked in this this field for. a year and knew all the players I'm like I don't  know you know my gut tells me I'd go look at DARPA. and I believe that conversation was being listened  into. I think I I believe they were already.

watching me obviously going back um into October  2019. That's when it triggered something within. the intel community where um I had found out now  secondhand that there was a false allegation that. someone had leaked classified information to me.  Nobody's ever leaked classified information to. me because uh one they don't typically target  the person that was leaked to. They target the. leaker. Okay? and I would be arrested and be  in jail if any of that were true. And when I.

told that to Miranda Divine, this is based on  my expert opinion. I knew the people who were. funding the work, uh, preemp uh, the preempt all  these different things. I I knew the players. So, you go look at the funding sources to identify  proposals and things that had been submitted. Um, and I don't know if this is related or not,  but a week or two after I have that conversation, uh, Major Murphy from the US Marine Corps  puts out a whistleblower disclosure that, uh, there's this thing called the diffuse proposal,  which is basically the recipe of how to make.

SARS KV2 and it was done in partnership with  the Chinese and a number of scientists in in. the US and the primary sponsor um, the primary  company engaging this work was Ecoath Alliance. So every name on the the diffuse proposal um I  know all I know those people or I know of them and. what work they were doing and everyone discredited  this diffuse proposal because this is not a real. proposal. This looks like a joke. It's it's two  pages. Um it looks very half-hazard and and I was.

started making the argument to people no this is  very real. DARPA does business differently than. other government agencies. They um they use this  thing called Meyers Catechism. You have to answer. a series of questions. Proposals, they only want  a page or two. They don't want a big NIH proposal, which is very technical, could be full length of  100, 200 pages of material. They only typically. want a one or two page proposal. And I I tell  people like this is how DARPA does business. But since nobody in the real world knows  how the business works in in these areas,

not a lot of people you run into at Starbucks  have done business with DARPA. Exactly. And. that's how they then start the psychological  operation around the diffuse proposal. you. could pause for those who aren't familiar,  will you just tell viewers what DARPA is? Yeah, so DARPA is the Defense Advanced Research Projects  Agency. Uh used to be DARPA uh before they added. the D before. So Advanced Research Projects  Agency. It it's actually made most of the. coolest technology that we have or one of the the  companies or entities that's fedally funded that.

has uh the internet. So everything on the internet  was developed by ARPA then ARPANet. And if you. are a tech nerd like me and you start digging down  the DNS queries of how you search for information, you dig down, you start pulling up the tables  information, eventually you get to something. that says ARPANET and every communication that we  do. So they make the most sophistic sophisticated. stuff in the world. Um, so it's a Pentagon  funded research lab basically. Yes. Well, not necessarily just a research lab. it um I'd  call it more of a it covers a program area or.

series of program areas where some of the research  is done by private contractors FFRDC's basically. anybody who can who can do the work and they they  fund high risk uh high high value uh scientific. R&D on short timelines so you don't receive 10  10 years of funding the the department of defense. rightfully so is what capability will this give  us within a year or two three years they have a. short short horizon and it's no nonsense and  they want results and they they achieve them.

Interesting. Um that's a great description uh  from someone who's worked with them. So anyway, you have this conversation with Miranda Divine and  you now believe that conversation was monitored. and what happens next? Well, then I start because  my my profile is uh increasing and I'm starting. to be actually followed by people um out in the  UP when I like go to the grocery store. Um very. very strange, right? If you live the UP is  the upper peninsula of Michigan, it's not.

actually near the state of Michigan really. It's  very it's a geographic anomaly, but it is very. lightly populated and extremely rural. It's one  of the most rural places east of the Mississippi, if this is a fair description. Yes. It's actually  the the most rural place uh in the lower 48 by 48. Yes. By population density. Um so when you're  getting followed in the UP, you know it. Oh, absolutely. I mean, so the house the the pandemic,  you know, prepper house that we that we purchased,

it's 180 acres. It's off completely off-grid. Our  driveway is a mile long and it's basically like a. moat. There's a natural dense swamp on on all four  sides cuz the driveway is an old railroad grade. Uh, so yeah, so it's very isolated. I joke I could  throw a hand grenade off my step and nobody would. notice. And because there are mines in the area,  there's blasting and stuff going on. Nobody would. care. Um, so that's that's where I live. So when  you go to the gas station or you go into town,

you know, 40 40m minute drive and you have someone  follow you, have a couple vehicles follow you, it it's very strange. And I get on it was  Twitter then before X and my my profiles. becoming elevated. So, one of the first people to  get in contact with me was Brett Brett Weinstein, Dr. Brett Weinstein. Um, another Yan Yak um  they start reaching out to me. So, the people. who were outspoken and um skeptics around all  things start contacting me and I have a 4-hour. conversation with Brett Weinstein and I walk  them through the whole whole thing even through.

the the vaccine technology and I think how itaus  cancer and look today where we are it's these mRNA. vaccines are causing cancer. So anyways, I have  this great conversation and um all of a sudden. all the I feel the I can sense the pressure, you  know, being applied and mounting, you know, from. being followed, you know, as weird as that is. And  because I'm a former top secret clearance holder, I decide to go report this to the FBI. So I go  to my local FBI field office and I say, you know, I'm Dr. Andrew Huff. I'm a former top secret  clearance holder that worked at this environment.

I'm being tailed because you're supposed to. you  signed documents saying that, you know, if you. report any if you have any strange behavior the  rest of your life of being tailed or, you know, hacking surveillance, report it to the FBI. So,  I did. My wife and I go in there. Um, they seem. like they're taking it very seriously and I then  actually hire a private investigator to then. um cross check what the FBI is doing. And there's  a vehicle that's following me and I report it.

uh to the FBI. The FBI tells me it's nothing. The  private eye tells me um that vehicle is registered. to the the Secretary of State in Michigan and  that's how they have undercover vehicles. What? Yes. So that's how the FBI is undercover vehicles  that or any other undercover entity. So some. federal entity government agency could be either  the state police, um the sheriff's department. Um, I now know for a fact that it was the state  police, my sheriff's department, Marquette County,

uh, and the FBI all working together, um, in  hindsight and probably also with the Department. of Defense and the CIA, which is more difficult to  prove, but you can sort of see ties and tendrils, uh, into that. So, that aside, um, so I'm being  followed. They're listening to my communications. Um, all this is sort of easy detect. If you're a  person who worked in intelligence and defense, you. know how they they operate. And so I just started  collecting evidence of all the the terrible crap.

And my devices were getting hacked weekly. I mean,  I'd have to wipe the operating systems reinstall. And it's this cat and mouse game as technologies  involving. And I'm an engineer. So I just start. increasing my security all the time. And it it the  the sad reality is with consumer grade electronics. that you buy from, you know, Amazon or wherever  you get them these days, um it's difficult to. defend against the the advanced persistent threat.  So you're basically I spend a lot of time doing. network engineering and restoring programs and  software because it once I get to the point.

where I'm writing my book the hacks in intensify  and it's definitely coming from the government. probably the pharmaceutical industry or other  you know entities and organizations and I try. to investigate myself um the source of of those  hacks and I actually know I you follow the IP. addresses of their VPN that they back door in your  system you can find out who the attacker is. So, I I do this and I I sit on it and it's gotten  to the point where I'm ready to file a large. uh federal lawsuit against the federal government,  Cash Patel, who's supposedly my ally, for $50.

million, because I've identified the FBI agents  and everyone involved um all the way to the top. I basically ran a counter intelligence operation  back against the US government with my training. and collected the evidence to prove it. I even  have fingerprints that I was obtained in my house. um of people who broke into my house. They tased  my dog. What? Yeah, they chased my dog during one. of the breakins. Um, what else did they do?  Actually, yeah, how do you know that? I mean, it leaves a big mark and a burn on the the dog's  neck. It was hiding cowing in the counter. It.

changed the one of my bird dogs. So, this dog was  actually one of the German shorthair pointer. Yes. A large female about 70 lbs large for that breed.  They attacked your dog. Okay. That's when Yeah. They tased the dog and it changed her behavior.  She became more timid. you actually should be. sort of aggressive for a GSP. And um so anyways,  yeah, they they tased my dog. They tampered with. my vehicles on numerous occasions. And this just  didn't happen in the UP. This would happen when.

I go other places. So if I travel for work,  say I'd go to, you know, Wisconsin, Green Bay, California, they'd tamper with my vehicles there  uh and and do, you know, really silly stuff like. psychologically. So they might just like buckle  your seat belt before you so you leave the car and. then you come back to your car and everything's  all skewed and they mess with stuff in it. So, I mean, it was more of a a psychological  operation, not like trying to to kill me, you know, but they they were trying to apply all  the pressure that they could to to make my life. miserable. I have times uh periods where my credit  cards uh might not work. Uh you show up to a gas.

station, try to run it to the pump, um it won't  be work. So, is that the bank screwing with me, the payment system? Um, I had the controls on my  vehicle on um a I don't want to say what type of. car I have on your show, but um a a newer vehicle  that has like automated driving like assisted. driving capabilities that had been taken over at  low speed where I couldn't couldn't control it and. now I'm sort of in of the mindset like oh gee,  should we have self-driving cars and they would.

actually it always Let me answer that question.  No. Yeah, it's the end of human autonomy, right? And so you have 1987 Chevrolet Silverados with  the five-speed manual transmission. You'll have to. take me for a ride, but that's what I drive. Okay.  Sorry. No, and I thought about that. And so it's. always this battle whether or not we should have  these technologies. And here's the thing I want to. point out. They didn't do the these things when  I was driving at high speed. It happened at the. same place in in my driveway systematically where  they were doing it to mess with me at a low speed.

And I actually brought one of the vehicles um  into the manufacturer to have it looked at and. they took a look at it. Their corporate mechanic  came in. Um and corporate mechanics are special. mechanics that look for um I guess manufacturing  errors in in the production of the vehicle so that. the corporation can correct the either software or  physical problem with the vehicle. and they gave. me free repairs um based on what they found and  they would tell me exactly what they found. So,

well, this is all pretty distressing and to think  that you're a patriotic American, served your. country, fought and was wounded in Iraq, you know,  and for your government to be doing this to you. because you're telling the truth, um is is really  kind of like the the end. I mean, that that could. happen. Yeah. Well, I I took the attitude of um I  can beat these guys and I'm I'm better than they.

are and I'm smarter than they are. So, it just  became a game to me and I just went played the. game and I played the game and I outsmarted them  every step of the way because their ultimate goal. was to prevent me from this story getting  out to the the global audience. And I knew. that's what their objective was. And their other  objective was to skew me as a crazy, right? So, we're either going to paint this person as a crazy  and we're going to prevent them uh so at least my. word or my voice has no impact. And they failed on  both accounts because the the main thing is I had.

I had documented everything that was happening,  the license plates, the people following me, the fingerprints in my house. They're not my  fingerprints. And the best part is I brought those. fingerprints to the Marquette County Sheriff's  Department. um brought them to the FBI and I even. had a referral from Sandia National Laboratory's  counter intelligence eventually to the FBI telling. them to investigate this and they refused to to  run the prince. Have they ever run the prince? No. And this is where it gets really interesting.  So, um to this day? To this day. And I still have.

them. Why? I mean, I guess it's probably someone  from law enforcement. That's that's what it's. probably a sheriff's department employee. It could  be uh someone politically that they uh used in the. operation. I mean, if you look at how when when  they want to target someone or individual, and. I'm not the first US government scientist to go  through this, it's well documented that the person. they blamed for the basillus anthraasis attacks uh  after 911. So, you remember the anthrax mailings?

Do I remember? Yeah. Yeah. So, they pinned that  to a guy by the name of Dr. Bruce Ivans. Well, first it was Dr. Steven Hadfield. Yes. Yeah.  And then it was Dr. Bruce Ivans and they ran a. operation on him which was like co-intel pro to to  make him crack and eventually he kills himself. He. can't he can't handle the pressure. Well, they ran  the same type of operation on me. I didn't crack.

I I hate to go far a field because this is an  amazing story, but you brought it up, so I'm. going to have to ask you. Give me the cliff's  note cliffnotes version of what those anthrax. attacks actually were, which for people who  were not around then killed a number of people, media employees. Anthrax packed envelopes were  sent to a, you know, to the newsrooms of a bunch. of media organizations. I actually got one at my  house. Um, so it was it was a big deal. This was. right after that. Yes. So someone someone who  had access to laboratory um which laboratory.

uh I forget what the the acronym stands for.  It's the bioweapons laboratory or bio defense. laboratory. Correct. Yeah. And so Dr. Bruce Ivid  worked in that laboratory. He worked on vaccine. technology and the spores which are weaponized to  be dispersed and the anthrax spores. Correct. And.

what's unique about these spores is that when  they're weaponized, they go through a process. called tinning. And what that tinning does,  it makes them so that they stay aerosolized. Because if you have basillus anthraasis, it's too  big of a agent. It just it falls to the ground, it sits. So to weaponize it, you want to make it  so it stays dispersed and fluffy. Exactly. And. so Dr. Bruce Ivans was a specialist in in that.  Okay. Making these things stay aerosolized and. then also developing the countermeasures to  it. So, if you're a real conspiracy theorist, you'd say that someone engaged in the um false  flagging of the anthrax attacks to promote the.

anthrax vaccine potentially. I mean, that that's  potentially that's one theory that's out there. Um I I personally believe from analyzing all the  different evidence that Dr. Bruce Ivans is not the. person uh that did it. um from my professional  network I know several person who work direct. people that work directly with him. He's very much  a very soft loving kind of person. I don't see.

this person all of a sudden taking the spores out  of his laboratory and then mailing mailing mailing. them to people. They this could have been done  to continue the biodense program around basillus. anthraasis is one possible scenario. So anyways,  I mean we're we're sort of off track here, but so there is no um cuz no one was ever charged  with it and he as I remember or was he charged? I. I think they were in the process of of charging  him. Well, certainly no one was convicted of. it. Yes. Right. And he killed himself. They  say he killed himself. He's dead in any case,

but has any other like sus meaningful suspect  ever emerged that you're aware of? Well, I have my opinions of who was likely involved and  I don't want to defame those people. So, and I. hope you won't use names, but can you just give  can you characterize who these people were and. what their motive might have been in your view?  In my opinion, they're likely associated with the.

biodense complex and their motive could have been  to create more fear or hostility after 911 in the. population. It could have been financial. Those  are probably the two leading motives of as to why. that happened. My my expert opinion and actually,  you know, in private afterward, I'll tell you, you know, who I think probably is involved. But  um but these would be me being an expert in bio. defense. I mean this is something of one of the  first things I did deep dives on even in fact in.

my PhD course work. It was taught by uh taught  by Dr. Mike Osteroon who and I he and I do not. see eye to eye in a lot of things. Um he taught  this in his course. This was a case study around. bio defense. There's a yeah there are a lot of  bolabs outside this country I've noticed run. by the US government or well they're not really  run by the US government. So there's this thing. called the cooperative biological uh engagement  program CBET and there's a few other programs and. the idea is we engage in scientific diplomacy with  foreign laboratories so our enemies do not become.

allied with them. So for example the Ukraine labs  uh I actually was involved in writing some of the. proposals for those laboratories and I can't say  with who under NDA but um here's the here's the. issue. If we don't engage in those cooperative  biological engage engagement programs with a. laboratory like in Ukraine, there's a very real  possibility that the Chinese will or the Russians. will. I get it. I get it. So, it's better that  we're working with them. I understand. No, I.

don't. But that's not crazy. I don't think it's or  certainly I understand how people talk themselves. into that and I don't it's not primopacia insane  or evil. What I find obviously insane and evil is. the lying about it. And so, you know, the under  secretary of state said in a Senate hearing a few. years ago when after the Ukraine war broke out  on camera under oath, this is Victoria Nulan, um, architect of the current disaster in  Ukraine, that um, she was worried about the.

Bolabs there. So, she said that on camera.  So, okay. All right. You said it, honey. And I played the tape and was immediately attacked  by everybody, all the other, you know, CNN and all. the other intel community controlled news outlets  as like a conspiracy wacko and there no there are. no biolabs in Ukraine. What are you talking about?  Same. What is that? I don't understand how the. Biden administration handled the the messaging  and the communications around around that. So.

I don't know why Miss Newand actually said the  things or said the things the way that she did. She's stupid. That's one of her deepest secrets.  She's an idiot. It would have been so much easier. just to come out and tell the truth. We have this  thing called the chemical biological engagement. program. And we had relationship with these these  laboratories in Ukraine. And actually this is. published information by the department of defense  and other the state department other agencies. involved. And you can go look at CBET maps and  see where we have these this this information. or you can play the the game where you go look  at awarded proposals which are not classified. So.

there there's ways to find this this information.  It's it's not secret and they're using uh private. companies to uh and universities to have these  relationships with these different laboratories. and that's that's what scientific diplomacy is  about. Why would you lie about it and why would. news organizations collaborate in those lies?  Like that to me as a non-scientist but a student. of human nature that's a tell that something's bad  going on. Like why would you lie about that? Well,

I think the Biden administration was completely  incompetent on in all these areas and I think it. was looking at Miss Nuland specifically. I believe  that she didn't know what she didn't know. Uh it. was a case of that. So, so that is one of the huge  problems with being dumb. Yeah. Is you don't know. what you don't know, right? And so she probably  couldn't articulate anything other that would be. the truth without putting herself in risks of  risk of being perjuring herself. Right? So the. I think she gave the answer to not pure herself  not knowing what she didn't know. Stupidity is.

often often the real explanation for a lot  of things. Well, the truthful answer could. have been well uh Senator so and so um I don't  know. My office will look into that and we'll. give you a written response within a week. And  that's how they train us. Yeah, of course. Well, that's what honest people do is just to tell the  truth. But I just thought it was interesting that. the media cooperated with the cover up in that  and many a million others of course, but like. why what is that? Well, that was all part of the  psychological operation because remember this this.

didn't happen in a vacuum. They probably didn't  want to undermine the public perception of the. government related to the co origin story. So more  of the these conspiracy theories that turn out to. be true. It undermines the credibility of the  main narrative that they're trying to set which. was co emerged from can I ask market like an even  bigger and dumber question which is like why would. the US government have an interest in lying about  that? Why not? China is our rival on many levels,

economic and military primarily. And we're often  told that, you know, we're in a war against China, a fight with China, a race against China. Why  would the the same people telling us that go. out of their way to cover up the fact that the  virus came from a Chinese bioweapons lab? Well, the the government's people first of all, you  know, we always refer to it as the government, but you work in Washington DC and in this this  space and any program area that a person could be. affiliated with has people running it. Yes. Those  people don't want to be held accountable. No,

that's right. That's right. And they they  obviously are living in a state of fear. of what could happen if there were uh if they  were held accountable. So they make decisions. to protect themselves out of their self-interest  and they happen to hold some power or leverage or. have the relationships to execute on on that  operation plan. That's totally right. Yeah. Uh I mean clearly true. So you start telling  the truth, they start telling you tased your.

dog trying to drive you insane. All of that is  very very familiar to me. um you don't feel like. they're going to want to kill you, but they want  you to shut up or at least become a fringe figure. that nobody pays attention to. Yes, absolutely.  And and here's a just a quick story and and maybe. we'll cut this in differently, but um one of the  funny things that they did was that uh it had been. a sort of really stressful summer of of working  on my book, writing it uh because of the hacks. and I had deadlines and I'm not able to meet the  deadlines because of the hacking uh being tailed,

all these different things. as well. My wife and I  decided to go to a music festival in Chicago, and. it's a decent drive, you know, 6, seven hours down  to Chicago. And while we're staying at the hotel, someone is hovering a drone outside the window of  our hotel room. Yeah. And the funny thing is, you. know, I hope you flashed them. Um, I walk around  probably naked all the time because I'm, you know,

a former army infantryman. I don't care who sees  me naked. So, and I live out in the middle of. nowhere, so I'll just go outside naked sometimes.  But, um, anyways, we're we're in Chicago. And, um, you know, the thing is the the FBI or these  federal agents or maybe state agents operating. illegally weren't very smart. So, our room  faced an alley in Chicago and there was a. tall glass building next to us. So, I look at the  glass building across from us and I can see the. people operating the drone in the room above us.  No way. Yes. Uh, so what I do, I actually put on.

my pants. Um, go upstairs and I pound on the door  and come out of this [ __ ] room. I caught you. And I'm screaming this the hotel room in Chicago.  And I'm excited, you know, because this is the. first time where I've actually been able to, you  know, confront these people. And the room goes. dead silent. So what do I do? I go over to the uh  fire door, which is right next to this hotel room. up against the stairwell. And we're on the third  floor. They're on the fourth. and I make a quick.

um decision to sort of trick these guys. So, I  open up the this door, this heavy fire door, and. I allow it to slam and I make the the noise with  my feet that I'm going down the stairs. Actually, I went upstairs quietly and above the room to  the fifth floor. And I'm standing there listening. to the floor and I hear cases closing, things  snapping, and you know which way they're going. to exit. They're obviously not going to go down  the fire escape router at the end of the building. The only other way they're go, they're going to go  down the hallway to the next stairway or elevator.

So, I start running down uh the fifth floor ahead  of these guys and I hear footsteps and cases and. things. Um the well, I heard the case. I hear  the the footsteps coming down u the hallway. and I get to the next stairway and I open up the  door and they pop out right in front of me. So, no way. But I'm up on the fifth floor and they're  coming out on the fourth and I'm looking down and. they go running down the stairs uh to to the  first floor and I'm laughing. So, I go over the. elevator. I go down the elevator casually. I come  on the the the lobby like there's nothing wrong.

and the two guys are sitting in chairs and I walk  over to him and say, "Hey guys, did you see uh. two guys come running down the stairs and uh they  have brace uh like wristbands on from drinking at. at the music festival or bars wherever they were  following us around all day." And they said, "No, we haven't seen anyone. They're, you know, looks  sort of like they're sweating." Then I go over. to the I start laughing. I go over to the desk of  the lobby and say, "Hey, what's your name?" Like,

"Can I get your phone number? I'm going to have  my attorneys call you. We're going to get a copy. of the surveillance footage of of these guys."  And I'm like, "I'm going to come back and I'm. going to buy you dinner next year." And she said,  "Okay." She gave me my information. She's like, "Why?" I'm like, "Oh, it's it's not a big deal."  So anyways, um that happens. Then a week goes by, the next week we're back at home. And I had  trespassers on my property. And these sometimes. the the state police and federal agents would  come onto my property and just like run around. the bushes around my house, you know, to like, you  know, freak me out and or thinking that they were.

freaking me out. I I laughed at most of this. So,  I call 911 to report the stress pastors and I'm. working in my garage on some, you know, project  and um they're playing uh music and sounds from. their phone like trying to like get me to come out  and like run after them or something. So, anyways, uh 45 minutes go by, the police haven't arrived,  and sometimes that's not uncommon probably for. a trespassing claim in the UP of Michigan. So, I  call back and the dispatcher or the 911 operator.

gives me the phone number of the state police  officer that is responding to the call and I'm. supposed to call him on the cell phone. Well,  I go call the phone number on my cell phone and. the phone rings in the bushes. No way. I'm not  kidding. And I start laughing and and uh they. know cuz you could hear it like you get shut off  real quick and and I'm just like I just got these. guys. Like this is concrete evidence you can  obtain from the location of a person's cell.

phone and the phone calls made. I mean I know of  these people ever punished the drone operators, the state cop. No. Uh so these people have  haven't been uh published. The the state cop. his name is Deputy Bray. I know who he is. And  he has actually a family in uh Iron Mountain, Michigan. So I don't know how to what extent.  There was another person um I actually witnessed. one of the state police officers uh in my house.  um through a black through a plate glass window.

I was out working on the property. Uh he was on  my computer trying to destroy evidence. I think. um he live lives in the town in the road. So  much of this came from the state police which is. uh the governor Governor Whitmer administration.  Totally corrupt history of working with the FBI to. harass corrupt person. Yes. And so I don't know if  they they've ever uh been held accountable. Well, I know for a fact that the FBI office in the  state of Michigan had been spreading rumors with. uh state and local law, excuse me, county and  local law enforcement that I was dangerous.

That's I mean this is and no one was ever  held accountable. What about your former. co-workers at Ego Health Alliance? Where are  they now? I haven't checked in a while. So, Dr. Billy Cares, who I actually really  liked, um he was the executive vice. president. He was second to Peter.  He wound up at the Aspen Institute. Good. That's the most perfect thing I've ever  heard. Okay. It was either that of the Atlantic.

Council or Georgetown University. I knew  it was one of the three. Okay. Funny. Um, so the the other vice presidents, uh, Dr.  Epstein or Dr. Olival, I'm not sure where. they are. I know Dr. Dic's trying to get  something new going, which is basically, it sounds like sort of the same thing. And, you  know, I understand why there have been a series. Has Dr. Did I ask ever faced any penalty at all  for participating in this? No. And the best part. is that what what's what's crazy about all this  I should say is that I attended a number of the. hearings in the co select uh committee in person  and I was there for Dr. asexic uh grilling and.

they have the part where they go through basically  he's denying that any of this is gain of function. his involvement and he's fighting back and then  you know it gets to the end of the congressional. hearings where council for both the Democrats and  Republicans get the chance to examine the witness. and during that question questioning they actually  ask Dr. dassic whether or not he was working with. the intelligence community and at first he lies.  He says no that that he wasn't and then they had.

actually obtained records that he was uh which was  apparent. I didn't know that at the time and they. pushed him on it and then he came clean that he  was. So it's not it's on the official record that. he was working with the intelligence me craziness  and nobody talks about that you know this is that. wasn't in the news but that came out at the end  of the hearing. Um, I guess you would have no way. to know whether the CIA ever gathered meaningful  intelligence from the Wuhan Institute of Urology.

In my opinion, probably not. Probably not. So,  and I get this question. It's like when I worked. at the National Laboratory, if we had anyone who  was foreign to the lab, and I mean anyone external. to Sandia come to the laboratory, we would give  them give them what I call the special tour. So. they would have their Sandia minder and we'd take  them to an area which we had bug swept before and. then you know we'd show them whatever we wanted  to show the dog and pony show and the second we. left that that area would be bug checked before  or after they left. So if that's what we do in.

the United States and that's our standard protocol  for top secret secret environments you we don't. think the Chinese are doing the same thing. So you  have all these US government officials and and Dr. dacic visiting that laboratory they you know would  just take them around to like oh this is our our. microbiology laboratory this is our you know  this is our ventilation hood where we do sample. work I mean just looking at the equipment in a  laboratory sometimes doesn't actually tell you. what they're working on either because you know  you're dealing with viruses you can't see these.

things or bacteria or pathogen right I can see  someone's kitchen stove I don't know what they're. making for dinner exactly so it you've told a  remarkable story and um you know it's remarkable. because of the lengths they and to keep you from  telling it, but with the benefit of several years, 5 years really of uh hindsight and thinking about  this, what do you think this was? Was this an. accidental leak from the Wuhan lab and they sort  of backfilled after that? Was this something else?

Like what what's your view? So the the way that  I'm trained and the way that I've worked in this. type of intelligence aspect of science is you look  at scenarios. So you come up with every possible. scenario and then you use hypothesis testing  evidence to eliminate hypothesis or scenarios. So we're now at the the stage where this could be  a few different things. One, it could have been. a pure accident accidental release uh from the  Wuhan laboratory. And if if it's that scenario,

it looks like it was a laboratory employee,  potentially a graduate student who had been. working um in that laboratory. It could have been  who became infected then spread it unknowingly. correct to the world. So that that is I think the  the scenario which has the most favor publicly and. among experts who are now committed the fact  that this is a laboratory leak. It could have. been an intentional release that still hasn't  been eliminated. Um one or multiple groups.

could have intentionally released the agent.  There there's one troubling aspect of this is. that there are types of studies or scientific  studies which we could have ran to conclusively. identified the origin of the disease in space and  time and this is a classic epidemiological method. There are blood banks and uh historical records of  disease through blood donation programs globally.

So what we do is we go to those blood banks, look  at old samples or we look at other tissues or. samples that have been collected with HIV and then  you look through okay is in this location here. what time when and then now with modern technology  you can actually use more genetic um applications. to look at the so because SARS KV2 evolves so  rapidly you can actually look at the phoggenetic. tree to see you know where in time was this sample  and you'd follow that back then with the location.

information you're obtaining of positive hits  where the sample with positive samples were. found to eventually eventually trace you back to  the origin and that study has never been done at. scale and I don't know why it's another one of  those questions like why haven't we done this and. there's a number of of organizations um and the  US military that could look at their own genetic. blood bank samples to sort of figure out where  this came from and when maybe they've already.

done that, right? Because that would happen behind  closed doors and the Department of Defense or the. Defense Medical uh agencies would would would do  that. So, these are questions that that could be. answered and they haven't been answered and I have  more thoughts and opinions to what has transpired. uh related to the origin of this disease. And I'm  now at the position of that if this investigation.

were to take place because the world is in such  a tenuous position in terms of the potential for. World War II that should happen in a classified  setting. Um and that investigation should be in. the form of uh using the UCMJ process through the  Department of Defense because Dr. Anthony Fouchy. um Dr. DICE uh Ralph Bareric all these people are  essentially working on a defense program. They're. working with DoD. It falls under uh UCMJ authority  legally. Not many people know that. It's not just.

people uniform code of military justice. Yes.  So people who are working with the DoD whether. they're a civilian or government employee on  a project project diffuse are subject to UCMJ. That's where the investigation should happen. It  shouldn't happen at the Department of Justice. Um I believe that Secretary Hegsth um has the  leadership to execute this properly and if the. investigation warrants then criminal charges  could be brought under UCMJ in a classified.

setting. So basically a classified trial which  exists then set a time period of 5 to 10 years. to release the results of that uh crim criminal  trial publicly. Obviously, if someone's found. guilty and they're imprisoned, you'll you'll  know that there are some wrongdoing, but I don't. think that we're My greatest concern is that if  there were more nefarious um components of this, now is not the time to release that information  publicly because the world sits on the cusp of a.

global war. Exactly. And and I'm I'm actually  sort of following um following the our leaders. here. There have been a serious That is a very  balanced view. Let me just say, well, thank you. For those who would dismiss you as a wacko, um I  don't know what I think of that. I haven't thought. of it until you said it, but that I think that's  a kind of a window into the way that you think, which is in a restrained and responsible way.  Well, thank you. And the that opinion or that.

belief and that process sort of just came to  me in the last week and that's from looking at. uh uh the director of national intelligence uh  Telsey Gabbard and her office um declining some. foyer requests from several groups related to the  origin of CO and the story. And I firmly believe. that director Gabbard is on the right side of  humanity and history. I'm a huge fan of hers and. I've had uh some conversation with her back and  forth on on social media um direct convers like.

direct messages and we have some friends that are  um you know friends of a friend kind of thing. So. I believe her heart's in the right place. can I  can ver I can verify that um through you know a. decade of knowing her well and she's one of the  only famous people I've ever met maybe the only. famous person I've ever met who not only didn't  get you know doesn't own a home because she's. never made any money at all because that's the  last thing on her mind. So who else can you say. that about? Not many people. That's right. And  so looking at her leadership right now and her.

offic's leaders uh offic's leadership and their  response to these foyer requests and they're the. nature of these foyer requests would actually get  at some of these root issues and they're they're. objecting to them and they're not releasing the  information. She's in the position now where she. knows a lot more about what happened or what  really happened than she did before President. Trump was elected and she was nominated into  that position and eventually became the director. So looking at that, I think they're making the  same kind of assessment that I am. Yeah. That.

of course it was a lab leak. I mean I I I don't  really when you said the portion of the scientific. community so-called that ascribes to the lab leak  theory that suggests that there are people who are. still pushing the pangleum lie. Absolutely.  Are there? Yes. Well, if you go over to the. other Twitter, blue, whatever it's called, blue  sky or I think I can't remember the name of it,

but on social media, there are other groups of  um scientists in publicly saying that this was. still a laboratory leak. In fact, they haven't  um retracted that it was not a laboratory leak. That was not a laboratory leak. Um they still  haven't retracted the proximal origins paper, which is a complete fraud. Are you serious? No.  And uh Dr. Ebrite from Ruckers University who I. admire and respect. He he's fighting this the  good fight every day on on social media as an. old old season professor should. So the the whole  complex of either the the pharmaceutical industry,

the scientific community that works tightly with  um the pharmaceutical industry or are funded by. the agencies involved in this are all opposing the  natural or excuse me the lab they're all opposing. the lab leak. Um the vaccine manufacturers  are opposed. I I would believe so. Well, not them directly cuz they're not making public  statements on this, but if you look at, you know,

you follow the money. So, if you look at the  scientists, okay, and where they get their. money from, many of the people who are involved  in mRNA technology development associated um with. SARS KV2 vaccines are in the camp of this was a  naturally emerging disease. Uh, and I'm using air. quotes around the word doctor, but Dr. Peter Hotz,  for example, uh a vax pusher of long-standing. Is. is he just to name one name, is he pushing the  penguin lie still? I don't know if he's pushing.

it still, but I mean he was he was pushing the  natural emergency theory uh quite profoundly. uh every everywhere he went for a period of time.  Why would um that's such an interesting nexus. Why would people who are promoting vaccines want  to lie about the origin of CO? Well, Dr. Hotz is. actually a more interesting specific person that  you name because he he actually has connections to. the Wuhan Institute of Viology as well. So, he's  more directly linked back to um the origin story.

than other scientists in the vacc. Yes. In what  way? I I forget that he has some kind of either. publication record with scientists there or um  collaboration of research I believe. Yeah. Well, he's Yeah, it it's interesting. You really feel  like you don't know your country very well when. I mean I knew people who believed Dr. Peter Hotz  and I thought to myself, how could this I mean. this is so clearly, you know, not true. I don't  know how you could believe that. It was really a.

a divisive time in the country or a revealing time  and those the truth led to division I guess maybe. is a better way to put it but anyway but why in  general leaving hotels out of it why would a vax. pusher not want to tell the truth about the origin  of the virus simply that ganofunction technology. is used for viology and v vaccine development and  mRNA is a huge portfolio of new vaccine technology.

development and thank you Okay, that's the answer.  And there's the funny thing is if you look at. mRNA technology and its future, uh, a lot of  corporations have banked in the pharmaceutical or. biotech industry on mRNA being the future vaccine  technology. And I think if you look at the rise. in cancers associated with mRNA technology in the  SARS K2 vaccine and there's a new study a recent. study that came out in Korea which is a massive  cohort study with a large uh large has much has a. lot of statistical power um found or six cancers  that were um associated with the vaccine. Okay.

And many of these other studies looked at one type  of cancer for example lymphoma in in Sweden. and. they they didn't find an association, but this  Korean study looked at all types of cancers and. they're now finding these associations. So,  the writings on the wall for mRNA technology, I don't do not think that it's going to be the  future vaccine technology. And and frankly, I'm not so concerned anymore with the old way of  thinking that the emerging infectious infectious.

disease threat that we should be concerned about  are old world diseases. So basillus anthraasis. being weaponized for example um a corona virus  being weaponized uh gain of function technology. has evolved within the last two to three years  at such a rapid pace the future threat we need. to be mitigating against and protecting against  is actually synthetic pathogens and synthetic. life and I don't think and I know for a fact  that most of the world isn't aware that we've.

actually already created single cell life it  exists um the paper The seminal paper on it. came out three years ago. So we now have fully  functioning synthetic cells which are created. uh with nanotechnology and some of those and I  could get in the weeds on what that nanotechnology. is which I can self-replicate and so what this  means if you sit back and what this mean wait. so man has created life technically synthetic  yes and by syn what is it so but if it's if it.

behaves independently and it's self-replicating  then aren't those the criteria for life? Well, that's a whole philosophical debate and yeah,  I don't want to believe it. So, I'm happy to. have the definition readjusted, but that would be  the obvious definition of it, right? And there's. also synthetic cloning now. So, you can have an  agent if you know exactly a pathogen or a cell. And some of this isn't isn't isn't advanced. So,  if it's more complicated cell type, for example,

you might not be able to replicate that. But you  can now synthetically generate um a virus to match. the virus and you so what that means is you don't  have to have the actual virus. You don't have to. collect a sample anymore. You can just have the  code and you can generate it. That's where we are. now, right? And that's that's for viruses. Now if  we're talking code and and I can make the virus. and I I believe we'll be there in the near future  with bacteria and with synthetic life though you.

can generate very radical things because what  what this means is we can make uh what would be. defined as a single cell synthetic organism which  does different things that don't exist and it has. massive um potential good uses and bad uses. The  good use is you could use this um and I could see. this being popular uh popular among scientists  funded by uh the Borlo program at USDA where. they use this for pest control and um you could  you could target make it so it was very specific.

uh the synthetic cell or organism or bacteria  to target target something like a pest like a. grasshopper for example or white people. Well,  we're get to the other side of this. um that. would only target a specific species defined to  a geographic region. So you might not worry of it. spilling over into some other insect population  in theory. Okay, this is this is this is sort.

of on the what I'm talking about here is the the  emerging future trend of this now on the nefarious. side of this. How is it going to be used? We're  no longer talking about living things. So you can. engineer a synthetic pathogen to attack equipment.  So you can have it have that synthetic organism. uh produce an acid that would eat metal. You could  have it produce a bofilm which would attack metal.

underwater like a submarine. Um this technology is  being developed right now at a handful of places. Uh some of it's in the United States much of it is  some of it is not. Most of the places it's being. developed are friendly to the United States or  our allies. But this synthetic threat is rapidly. emerging. That so that's the biotechnology side.  Now if you take a look at and I know I've been. watching your show recent episodes, AIS have been  a big hot topic and there's tons of investment.

going into it. Um we're going to see a fusion  between this synthetic biology technology and AI. and it's probably on the four to five year  horizon and the AI will be programmed into the. micro circuits systems of the the nanotechnology.  It's a fact. I mean like you're going to use the.

best software, the best programs you can get onto  a basically a nano computer within that cell which. does the programming. This might sound like crazy  science fiction to a lot of people. people would. say that's not possible. I don't think anyone  would say that's not possible. I can I can point. to a peer-reviewed publication where they're doing  all the components of this and it's just a matter. of time before someone gets wise and assembles it  and there's going to be plenty of financial motive. um to do this. So there's no stopping it.  And that that's what I'm saying. There's no.

stopping where this is headed. And the reason  why I say that there the Trump administration. um did some great work with Russia trying to to  negotiate a new biological treaty. I just want to. apologize in public for every moment I've defended  like our economic system because like any system. that allows something like this is a bad system.  Well, I don't So all technology is dual use, right? It's like firearms is a classic example. A  fire, a firearm in a good person's hand is a tool.

to defend and protect yourself, your family  against tyranny. In an evil person's hand, nuclear power, nuclear bombs, I get it. But, you  know, you just have to assess the downside risk. um realistically as compared to the upside  benefit. And I think with the techn well nuclear. technology, I believe this and certainly true with  everything you're describing, downside risk way. far outweighs any potential gain. you live to 110.  Okay. So, I'd argue this. I can completely agree.

with with the upside and downside risk of this.  But what I'm saying is there's no stopping it. No, I'm and this is why the what I was going to  say related to to President Trump and the Trump. administration negotiating a new uh biological  treaty with with the international community. Well, one looking at history back to the 70s,  I don't think it's going to be effective. So, the existing biological weapons convention we have  is outdated. It focuses focuses on select agents.

basically that which can be weaponized through  gain of function technology. They baked a loophole. into it to develop countermeasures. That's vaccine  technologies and other prophylactics. And you can. engage in the gain of function technology,  bioweapon development if you're developing. the countermeasure. and they couldn't get anyone  to go further past that with having inspections. And I don't see that posture, especially today in  today's climate. Yeah. Changing. So we blew up the. Nordstream pipeline. There's no I mean the basis  of international treaty of course is trust and.

there's none. So like no more international  treaties. Well, I I hope I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it right now. Well, I think  that there's a path forward and the path forward. to Before we get to the path forward, can we  just get to a broader description, more precise. description of what the marriage of nanotechnology  to AI means? Like what does that mean? Sure. So,

the marriage of of nanotechnology to AI means  that the AI or excuse me, the nanotechnology. uh will have swarmlike capabilities. So people or  the the general world is probably more familiar. with swarm technology around drones. They're  using this in and they're testing this and. they're trying to field these rapid swarm  technologies. And if you watch these large. displays of drone shows that you see commonly in  China, that's really them just openly testing uh. drone drone swarm technology. Yep. And that's the  civilian, you know, this is cool tech application.

But there's actually a much more sinister uh  application of that same technology for defense. dual use technology. So imagine that these these  pathogens are like these drones and you see them. operate. AI will control the swarm technology  around the synthetic pathogens so that it can. control their behavior and then also that the mi  the machine inside the synthetic cell can adapt to. its environment without any human construction  or code or decision-m. So what would that look.

like in terms of well I don't know I can imagine  a drone swarm I've seen one. Um what would that. mean? And so you have synthetic cells that are  controlled by a computer and then they do what? Well, they would use cases always help define  what that is. So in a weaponization scenario, yes, you could use this to deploy um a container. Maybe  it looks like a bomb into a ocean where you know.

where a submarine is. The synthetic the synthetic  life could be magnetic and attract to the hole of. a submarine. It would attach itself and then it  would make decisions about where it should collect. on the surface of the sub submarine independently  to create a bofilm and self-replicate to basically. cause the sensors or to disable the submarine  in some way in space. Um use a similar type.

of maybe I'm not so sure what the delivery  vehicle is, but say that you were to get this. onto a satellite. You could use it then to eat  and corrode the silicon and magnesium and the. the structure of that. Uh you could use it to um  basically disable the the systems on board or the. physical structure of the the vessel or or the or  the satellite. And that's just I mean what what's.

really so striking about this is this technology  will be able to use to attack objects but it's a. synthetic living thing. There's also the life. So  there there's a new fork fork here. You can use. it to attack objects or you can use it to attack  life itself. And that's more what people would. be familiar familiar with. You could use it to um  attack specific genetic populations for example. So if a certain population had a genetic trait,  you can make the synthetic pathogen specifically.

target name your niche of race or population of  genetically related closer relation. How about. the ones who were given fentanyl and denied jobs  in the United States? So, um, no, I'm just being. super but honest. More difficult probably. Well,  unless they they had some kind of specific, uh, half kidding sort of, but you, so I remember  Bobby Kennedy got into a great deal of trouble.

because he said at some event, of course, the New  York Post led the charge against him, of course, uh, but that COVID could be tailored, in fact,  what for whatever reason, CO had disperate. effects on populations. That's absolutely true.  I mean that's scientifically true and I was quite. familiar with that literature uh when he he made  what what does that mean? Which populations suffer. most from CO the there was a there was a finding  in a scientific publication that two different.

populations of of well two different populations  of people of Jewish ancestry depending um which. line they're from were one was more heavily  impacted than the other. Mhm. And that was that. was sphartic Ashkanazi. Yes. And that was that was  the finding and the I think the point that he was. trying to make or maybe didn't articulate well is  that the agent can be tailored to have that effect. and that's absolutely true and that's through  through old gain of function technology and.

with synthetic full synthetics what I'm saying is  you can make this so so specific is that I could. if I got your DNA like off of you know say that  you threw a cup I can tailor an agent just to you. and this is how it's changing and if you're using  AI behind that I could then and I say that a DNA. sample from two of your a couple of your relatives  so I knew what your family tree partially looked. like. Machine learning is very good at actually  random forest and tree decision-making. You could. do a lot of complex AI behind this to figure out  and make predictions the AI could about what your.

family tree look like and have the disease travel  through your family line. And this now this is. nobody has ever asked me that question. I just  generated that answer based on what I know. But I. think that that is a very real pos possibility use  or application of this type of technology. It also. could be used on the flip side of it. You could  use it to um target specific and rare cancers. And it could be used to eliminate those um cancers  cleanly and self deactivate and um decompose in a.

way that didn't harm your body. So this technology  is going to go um could go two different ways but. it's coming because the medical applications  and healthcare applications of it um are there. and they're going to be they will be extremely  profitable. Imagine that you said like I you know. you have cancer I don't have to give you a drug.  I have to inject you with this synthetic which. will seek out the cancer, the tumor in your body  and uh contain it, kill it with no other harmful.

effects to your body. In theory, like I say, in  in theory because things always have side effects, right? Of of course. And I I just say in general,  I would much rather live in a world where I risk. dying of tetanus and the common cold than live in  a world with this technology. It's not even close. Um, I have a million more questions to ask you,  but that's what you just said is so upsetting that. I I think you've broken my spirit, Dr. Huff.  Well, I think there I think there's a better. sol there's let me give you the upside of this,  though. So, the the solution to these problems.

and is typically better um bio surveillance and  this is what Eco Health was trying to do. And the. part of it that actually works is it you you can't  really understand what's circulating in the world. um in terms of pathogens life unless scientists  and engineers are measuring it or trying to. identify and look. You can't find what you're  not looking for. And it would be great to see. an international team of scientists working on  the technology to detect synthetic life when it.

emerges because if we all think it's a threat, we  don't have to um put our head head in the sand in. ostrich. If we're all just looking for it and we  can identify it, early warnings of threats save. lives, livestocks, livestock, animals. The  early warning signal is the most important. aspect of defending against future emerging  threats. And if we develop that technology,

um, we'll be safer. Yeah. What you really need  though to be safe is good people, ethical people. And that's a huge problem in science. I mean,  there there I could talk forever about that. They're not teaching ethics to people haven't been  to the doctor in five years as a result. I mean, yeah. As corrupt as every other institution.  Wow. that that what a heavy conversation that. was. Thank you. Where can people if people are  interested in finding out more people with the. stronger stomach and stouter heart than I have  want to know more about the last 10 minutes of.

our conversation? Where do you write about this?  Well, I've started to and I'm not sure how it's. been received. I published it on on Substack. I've  done it published a little bit on on X and then. also on LinkedIn and it's it's not very I don't I  don't think people are catching on and actually I. just solicited proposals uh to DARPA and a few  other places saying hey we should be looking at. this and I already know for a fact that they've  been thinking at it and they've been dabbling and. they put a little money into it. Um so I'm working  I'm act actively working on this. So if you want.

to for for the little the limited time that I  or the the few things that I do publish about. this I I put it on X and AG Huff is my my Twitter  account but other than that this is all very much. evolving and it's a work in progress. It's it's  amazing when you said gain of function research. has changed so much in that and I'm thinking what  time frame is he going to lay out here because I. think most normal people would assume after co  there would be a dramatic reduction in gain of.

function research considering that's what gave  us COVID and wrecked our country but you said in. the last two or three years it's it's now the the  building so if you're in bi biomedical research in. microbiology or viology ology or bioengineering.  It's it's something that you get trained on and. you learn to now advance to it's a building block  to learn about synthetic biology. So there's going. to be more research professors at le leading  universities within the next 5 years uh teaching.

this to P this and it's a trickle down. I always  knew science was bad. I just want to brag. I just. want to lay my marker down. I just want to say  I've always been opposed to science. I've always. been opposed to technology. I'm not stupid, but I  am convinced of that and have been my whole life. So, I think I'm being vindicated in real time.  Well, maybe I can cheer you up a bit. It's not. all evil. And to your point earlier, it's the  people behind it. Well, that's it. And maybe we.

need to do a better My community, the scientific  community needs to do a better job of training our. students not to be evil. And that comes through  how we select our students, how we mentor them, and how we show them or teach them what the  ultimate goals in life are. And that comes through. mentorship. And that has really fallen off, at  least during my academic and scientific career, where everything is money driven, financially  driven, I've noticed. And then on top of it, you. have a lot of predatory professors and academics  and scientists praying on their students. And.

it's a it's a it's a vicious cycle. And I mean,  what what do I mean by praying on them? Well, yeah. Not just sexually. Not not sexually, but  in terms of that's the least of the problems. in the the PhD world. It's very common that  uh research professors basically steal their. their students work and have them you take  credit for their work and they're the students. aren't aren't taught about ethics in science and  research on top of it. I mean it's not like it's. required coursework. Most most scientists  don't train their students in ethics. So,

how do we uh become better as as a community  of creating better people as as scientists. so they're not just out chasing money? And it's  mentorship and we have to break the cycle. I mean, we have to break the cycle. It's going to take  a radical religious revival to do that. Nothing. short of that is going to work. That's my view.  That's what I'm hoping for. Um because I feel like. we are on the cusp of like true darkness. I agree.  Uh, and I I I think about these things a lot and.

you know scientists we have people ask me what I  do. I'm sitting there staring out the window and. I'm like I'm working and they're like you know  I'm thinking through problems and people often. wonder well what do PhDs do? And we sit there and  we think about these things and we try to come. up with answers and we try not to waste any our  brain power on on things that don't matter. And. I I don't know if it's with a full religious  um if it's a fully religious aspect at least.

within the scientific community. I'm being real  here that I know know many of these scientists. are are atheists and I know that many of these  scientists who are atheists are some of some of. them I should say are are are great and fantastic  people. um at least at a minimum uh for them to. to view themselves in in the greater context of  what it all means and try to have um positive I. guess a positive force on the world through what  they're doing. But there's no positive or negative.

for an atheist. I mean it doesn't there no there's  no hierarchy of value that rooted anything other. than preference. So none of that's real. How can  you say something's bad if you don't believe that. there's a power higher than you? It's a great  question. you can't is the answer. So, you should. never allow atheists to have this kind of power.  Um, not because they're evil. A lot of them are. are great people. I really like a lot of atheists.  It's nothing personal. It's just that there's no. check at all on the power if you think that you're  God, you know. So, that can't be allowed. Uh, Dr.

Huff, thank you. Amazing conversation. It's going  to affect my sleep. Thank you. [Applause] [Music]. We've got a new website we hope you will visit.  It's called newcommissionnow.com and it refers. to a new 9/11 commission. So, we spent months  putting together our 9/11 documentary series. And if there's one thing we learned, it's that  in fact there was fornowledge of the attacks.

People knew. The American public deserves  to know. We're shocked actually to learn. that to have that confirmed, but it's true. The  evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in the United States.  They knew they were planning an act of terror. In. his passport is a visa to go to United States of  America. A foreign national was caught celebrating. as the World Trade Center fell and later said he  was in New York quote to document the event. How. do you know there would be an event to document  in the first place? Because he had fornowledge.

And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown  investor, shorted American Airlines and United. Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers  used on 9/11, as well as the banks that were. inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks.  They made money on the 9/11 attacks because they. knew they were coming. Who did that? You have to  look at the evidence. The US government learned. the name of that investor, but never released it.  Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this,

but there isn't actually. And by the way, it  doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public. deserves to know what the hell that was. How did  people know ahead of time? And why was no one ever. punished for it? 9/11 Commission, the original  one, was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions. were written before the investigation. That's  true, and it's outrageous. This country needs. a new 9/11 commission. one that actually tells  the truth that tries to get to the bottom of.

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