Buckley Carlson: Writing Trump’s Speeches, Trump’s Shocking Texts to MTG, and the Epstein Cover-up

For at least 10 years now, hating Trump has been  the shest possible indication of liberalism. If. you really hate Donald Trump, you're probably  filled with hate for the United States. You. probably hate whites. Probably anxious to give  kids the COVID vax and castrate boys and put. non-binary people on the swim team or whatever.  But there was a pretty much for about a decade a.

onetoone correlation between disliking Donald  Trump, hating Donald Trump, Trump derangement. syndrome, and liberalism or it's sort of weird  American manifestation. But now we're in a weird. moment, an even stranger moment where a lot of  people who really like Trump are very disappointed. in Trump. In fact, more than disappointed,  feel betrayed or enraged, feel like suckers, feel like they've been taken for a ride. How  could I possibly have supported that given what. it became? A lot of people seem to feel that way.  But do a lot of people seem to feel that way? Do.

they actually feel that way? According to polls  on CNN, 100% of MAGA voters still support Trump. Is that real? Well, it's really hard to know given  how fraudulent so much polling is. So, we thought. we would speak to the one person we know who  sincerely supported Trump from the very beginning. wrote speeches for Trump in 2015, voted for Trump  three times. New people within the Trump White.

House, worked with the Trump White House, and all  along that period, 10 years, supported Trump in. public, not on television, which is easy, but in  his own neighborhood, which was 100% Trump haters. That person is my brother. It turns out, Buckley  Carlson, Uncle Buck, as he's known to us. And so, we thought we would sit down and ask him, are we  imagining this? Did the guy you supported from.

2015 in the face of social sanction like  you wouldn't believe, did that guy just. betray everything you believe and the reasons you  supported him in the first place? Are we imagining. this? Is it real? Here's the conversation we  had with Uncle Buck. You were the first person. I knew personally who supported Donald Trump. And  I remember thinking later when I thought about it, I was like, you're a lifelong resident, 40-year  resident of Washington DC, which voted for Trump.

in 2016 at 4.1%. So you were in the 4% of district  residents who supported Trump, and you're a Wasp, and that's the group that hated Trump most. How  did you wind up supporting Trump in like 2015? The departure. Trump represented a departure  that I had never seen in Washington. He was.

first I should say I knew him my entire  life as anybody who grew up in the 80s did, right? Because he was such a I didn't know him  personally. I know you did, but um I knew of him. as everybody around us did because he was such a  carnival barker of self-promotion. Yeah. Gold dip. braggadocio. Uh lying. I mean, he was a performer  and he was the creator of his own story, which on. the one hand was disgusting because he was a man  of obvious uh faults. I mean, he was gross and.

loud and brash and crude and a serial adulterer  and all the things that you probably wouldn't want. to be and certainly wouldn't want your children  to be. Well, that's why the wasp didn't like him. cuz he bragged about himself. Yes. Which is like,  you know, rule one. You can't do that. That's why. my children didn't like you know it's like very  much so. Yeah. So that was a massive hurdle and. I mean they already had a candidate called Jeb  Bush. I was aware I was compelled actually for.

the first time ever by some of my clients to  actually contribute to Jeb Bush. But but he. was the consensus choice of his people. I mean he  converted to Catholicism but no one really took. that seriously. He was a birthright episcipalian  like everyone knew this is our guy. It was his. time. It was yes his time. He was the adult in the  room. I remember early on actually he raised $100. million famously obviously and he was just the  guy that was going to take us. But did you even. know anyone who didn't support him? I didn't know  a single person who didn't support him. No. But he.

had his his domestic policy, his foreign policy,  everything about him, nothing about him was. exciting. All of it was polltested as everything  in Washington had been up until the moment Trump. came on the scene. Right. And Trump was very, if  if not articulate, he was he had baseline messages. that were unassalable and that he repeated with  great repetition. And the things that he espoused. and talked about endlessly were things that  I believed in and things that most Americans.

when they actually took the time to separate him,  separate Trump's policies from Trump the man, were. super attractive. And it was such a departure from  what we'd seen from every other elected official, especially obviously it was the end of the Obama  years which were such a disappointment but also. the destruction of weak pole tested you know very  well uh packaged candidates like um who's that.

who's that forgettable Utah senator uh oh yeah  and of course uh so Trump talked about actually. focusing on America, repairing the problems that  this entire class of people had brought upon us, the American citizens. But you were in that  class of people and you literally worked for. a polling the most famous polling company and  you were in politics and you live in northwest. Washington DC and like basically Trump is calling  for the destruction of your world. I didn't see it.

that way because I think these people had already  destroyed our world. And I'd seen it up close and. personally, not only in the education system,  but in the environment around me. We lived in. a much dirtier country. We lived in a country that  wouldn't even embrace any of the things that were. great about America that I had grown up embracing.  Not just freedom, not just not just individuality, but cleanliness and Christian principles. And  yeah, um, we had such a wonderful country when. I was growing up and it had been transformed. You  could see it in Washington probably better than.

you could see it even in border states. The the  disconnect between what people had voted for, what. people wanted, what they continually expressed  that they wanted from the Republican leaders. um, and they were denied it every time. And Trump  came in and said, "Look, there there's an end to. that. This is unacceptable. We've failed over  the past 30 years. I've seen it up close and. personal. Aside from all of his obvious foibless  and his disgusting elements of his personality,

he was, it seemed, someone who had been steeped.  He built things and and very few people built. things by the time Trump came along. We were not  a manufacturing society at that point. And even. if I didn't like his gilded name on all sorts  of properties, he had employed a ton of people. He had actually contributed to the economy. He  had been saying a lot of these financial I wasn't. really steeped in the financial world and didn't  understand our trade policies. But when Trump.

explained how beneficial it was to the rest of  the world rather than America, our trade policies, I actually paid attention and read up and and  and realized that he was telling the truth. And. then everything he said about the border, which  you could see if you traveled around America, which I certainly did, the degradation of America  was obscene and the the destruction of things. that I had held dear my entire life and I think  most Americans did. It was Trump represented a.

return to normaly and then of course I was totally  enamored of his personal strength and his ability. to there's nobody who has been more attacked than  Donald Trump obviously over the last decade but. nothing more aggressively than when he first came  down that escalator and announced for president. like he was attacked by absolutely everybody in  the world not just the left not just the media but.

as you said everybody on the right took as a joke.  It's like actually we're not electing individuals. We're electing the policies that they will defend  and put forward when they're in office. And Trump. articulated a very small set of priorities that I  really found attractive and did so with calm and. repetitiveness that seemed legit and sincere,  especially the more he was attacked because he. never bended. And I'd never seen that in American  politics ever. And you've been around it a lot.

Been around a lot. And actually, you know, jumping  forward a decade and Trump has expand had expanded. the coalition so aggressively. Back when he  started, the ideas in the Republican party about. expanding the coalition were not harnessing  the things that were great about America. It. was actually surrendering to, you know, speak  Spanish if you want to appeal to new voters. uh don't talk about the cultural degradation of  America because that will turn people off. Well,

Trump flipped that over flipped that on its head  completely and said actually there's a lot about. America we should and will be defending. And so  that attracted me to him. I I love that about. him. Everyone loves relaxing at home. Cozy Earth  can maximize that experience. If you haven't tried. their robes or their slippers, you may be missing  out. Soft, breathable, lightweight, the epitome. of comfort. Perfect for slow mornings. Put one  on after the shower. hang out in front of the. fire. You put on the robe, you don't want to take  it off. We haven't even mentioned the slippers,

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you heard about Cozy Earth from us on this show.  Wow. When did you get involved? The end of 2015. I got hooked up with people in Trump's orbit.  It was still a very embionic campaign. I mean, the entire campaign was mostly a media  campaign. Even throughout the whole 16 effort, but early on never stopped being a media  campaign. It never stopped being a media. campaign. But there were a few you know a few  people around him who were actually producing. work. Um so I got in touch with them or through I  got connected through a common friend of ours and.

uh ended up writing some early speeches for Trump  and Steven Miller. I was corresponding with Steven. Miller and writing some early speeches for Trump.  That's crazy. I didn't realize that at the time. I. don't think I took Trump seriously at all until  the summer of 15 probably um when our friend.

Patrick Feny in Maine told me that he was thinking  about voting for Trump or Bernie Sanders. They. seem very similar to him. And I was like, I don't  even know what you're talking about. They're polar. opposites. And I and my brain started to change.  I started to see the obvious. But you were already. on it. That's so interesting. I mean, it's a lot  to ask anybody to understand his own motives, but why do you think to the extent you can analyze  it, why do you think you living in a political.

world with a political job, being from a group of  people who hated Trump, living in a neighborhood. that hated Trump, why were you uniquely able  to see the things that your neighbors couldn't, like the degradation of America and and connect  that to the policies that produced it? And why. why could nobody else? Maybe it was because I  had actually worked in Washington for so long. I. hadn't been born in Washington but had moved there  as a teenager and then had worked in politics, elected politics and then corporate America but  very much adjacent to political world and worked.

with pollsters and people who message tested and  I had worked closely with the Republican coalition. when they got back in power in '94. Um, and I saw  to the extent that people were phony, there was a. huge disconnect between their personal lives and  how they voted and how they campaigned. Gay and. gay, super gay and very much in our party, which  I was surprised by because the left was always. crazy and they were always sort of attracted these  people who at least they were open about it. The.

Bernie Franks of the world at least. No, totally.  their weird lifestyles, but the Republican party. was completely um empty. And I had also lived  through empty. What do you mean? They had no. principles that they were willing to stand up for.  And I had seen probably the starkkest example was. John McCain, who I had grown up really respecting  was at a time in America when people actually. celebrated war heroes. I thought he was a war  hero at that time. and I've subsequently learned.

differently. But um it was when he attacked the  tobacco industry early on when I was first working. for corporate America, a big PR firm, and he had  led the charge against big tobacco and had been. a grandstander and a phony, and I had known him  personally and really liked him as a person. I. did too. I really liked him as a guy. Yeah. He was  hilarious. He was hilarious and physically tough. I thought he was physically tough and he was also,  sorry to say it out loud, he was a wasp and he had. grown up in he gone to Episcopal High School and  he just had excellent manners. He was funny in.

a way that I could relate to. He had a kind of  heart to him, a kind of physical courage that I. of course, you know, we grew up admiring that and  uh I was completely taken in by his persona or so. Not even the war stuff, but um just his sort of  I don't know his style. I just I understood it. immediately and I liked it. He was the guy he was  totally approachable. I remember early on in my.

political career that I would come across him at  fundraisers and cocktail parties and he's the guy. I would gravitate to and stand next to the bar and  chat with cuz he was so approachable and funny. So funny. Yeah. And he did he seemed that was  representative of a really different time. I mean. that was you know the Lindsey Grahams of the world  walk around with huge security details now. Oh, I know. I wish someone would explain that to me.  But um John McCain didn't John McCain was a man's. man. Exactly. And he was, as I said, I thought  physically tough. So, no, that is such a smart.

point. Like, men did not have security details.  It's just a show of rank. It's also a display of. cowardice, honestly. And um McCain would never  have a security detail because culturally we. don't do that. Plus, he seemed capable of beating  him to death with his comb. I mean, if he had to. I totally agree. I mean all of this is like lost  on people now but no I complete a security detail. What? Who do you think you are? It's absolutely  shameful. No. And he had a kind of again not to.

make it an ethic thing but it's a cultural thing.  He was had like a kind of wasp egalitarianism to. him that was completely real. Like he would have  a legit conversation with the waiter. Yes. Was. not a rank guy like these fraudulent new money  insecure people. He was like a real guy. Yes. Is that is that fair? very much so. plus hilarious  in the sense demonstrates one obviously not only a. high intellect but a a certain comfort with people  and if you can talk to your constituents I wasn't.

really a constituent of his but I was you know  a 23-year-old and I was an American and he made. me feel like my opinion mattered and he could he  wasn't self-conscious he was not a big apologizer. he didn't think about what he said exactly and  Trump was the same way Trump was like wait so. but get go back to the McCain thing I knew McCain  very very I intimately well and uh and was and and. really liked him as I said. But the tobacco thing,  tell me what why that was significant to you cuz.

I agree with that. Well, tobacco represented  first of all not only like one of the biggest. um commercial products that we have in America.  I always thought it was sort of entwined with. American freedom history 100%. We had all these  tobacco producing states all around DC of course, but in the south that was the point of the colony.  100%. Absolutely. They f I mean they threw the. tobacco bales and the coffee bales but tobacco  as well. Um tobacco was a great American heritage.

product and as a consumer who enjoyed tobacco I  always sort of respected it and but it tied in. also with a sense of personal responsibility which  we never see now is there was a you know you had. the freedom to smoke. May it be bad for you? Yes.  I think every smoker knew it was probably bad for. you. you have the obvious uh you cough, you get  pneumonia every year, you smell bad, your teeth. turn brown, whatever. No one no one was surprised  when the attorney general came out and said.

smoking's bad for you. But the hypocrisy, first  of all, the overreach of someone in the Republican. party supposedly champion of free markets and  freedom and personal freedom would go after and. grandstand about the tobacco companies and how  they had lied about the addictive properties of. tobacco when everybody knew they were addictive.  The majority of countries smoked at that time. We had come from a smoking heritage. Um and not  only that, the majority of governments including.

state governments were wellinvested in tobacco.  They had taken a lot of you know public employees. investment funds and invested in Philip Morris  and RJR and Brown and Williamson and the other big. ones. Uh I guess those are the Laur Lurard Laurard  forgive me. Uh so American tobac tobacco was. intertwined with the American experience as far as  I understood it. And if you're going to go after, it's like going after the foundation of your  company. It's on your country. It's wrong on so.

many levels. I agree. Such a kick in the crotch,  I think. And he did it in a in a grandstanding. fraudulent way. Yes. Very much so. And and  also did it at the last minute. And he I can't. remember he was he I think he was chairman of the  Senate Finance Committee. I'm not sure why they. had purview over it. And I worked intricately in  this uh in defense of the tobacco companies at the. time when they came up with their um their huge  settlement which involved a lot of humiliation for.

them. They paid for their own destruction uh at to  the detriment of individual Americans, but also to. the detriment of people who'd been invested in  tobacco and to the enrichment of like the trial. lawyers and like totally disgusting little 501c3s  like campaign for tobacco free kids, Michael. Myers. It's like the worst people in the world  won. Some of the best people lost and the the. people making the deals sold their own dignity.  And for what? Did public health get better?

Did the life expectancy in this country rise? No,  it went down. I think John Cole got a really big. boat out of it. And I think Dicky Scrugs also, you  know, brother-in-law to to Trent Lot at the time. who was the majority leader. I mean, it seemed  like a setup and it was offensive and it dominated. political discourse for a couple of years and it  the country actually hasn't recovered from that. I agree. I agree. Did it make you quit smoking?  Uh, no. Oh, I probably actually went from a two.

two pack a day to three peek a day smoker at the  time. There were some benefits actually because. uh Philip Morris and RJR would send that they  had it was right around the time too that the. to RJR Nabiscoco merger. So, they used to send  these huge packages to our office wrapped in a. big faux cream cheese case and you'd open it up  and we'd have cartons of cigarettes and Nabiscoco. crackers and all sorts of cookies and chocolates  and and uh the original non-smoking cigarette they.

had too which tasted terrible. It was awful. It  was awful. But it was a neat concept where you. heat the tobacco rather than burn it, right? Yes.  You get your nicotine but it was disgusting. That. was a Philip Morris. I believe that was a Philip  Morris product. Yeah. They sent it to me and I. try remember smoking in my office thinking who  would smoke that? Yeah. Now it was like it was. like trying Brussels sprouts. Each time I did it  I was like I'm going to like this. Normal people. like I never tried it. You know it's repulsive.  Um, but that was a huge sense of betrayal early on.

and then when he ran I was wary of John McCain and  then when he ran for president got the nomination. um he totally fumbled it and it seemed like it  was an absolute surrender to this unknown but. obviously Marxistbased anti-American candidate  anti-white anti-American candidate and he that. was not his to lose that was ours to lose and he  did that on our behalf and do you think he threw.

the fight he refused to I mean on the heels of  9/11 He refused publicly and excoriated people. for saying pointing out Barack Obama's real name  Barack Hussein Obama or Barry Satur talking about. his early years in uh in Indonesia talking about  his church that he went to in this anti-American. anti-white church talking refusing to talk  about any of his heritage which was obviously.

fabricated and and dishonest. It was the first  time, I think, in American history that a a. presidential candidate was not only not vetted at  all, but you were excluded from knowing anything. about him of any relevance. And John McCain, who  was the standard bearer of the Republican party. at the time, had an obligation actually to be the  top watchdog about his opponent. That's your job. Your job is to fight a battle. And he refused  to fight it. So, I never forgive him for that.

That's such a smart point. I was too close to  it even to get that. But the cost of living is. already making it hard to live here and it's not  getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to. get worse. And a lot of Americans fill the gap  with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills.  And that is a disaster. It's understandable, but don't go down that road because there is a tax  in effect, a survival tax of 20% interest or more. Why would you do that? Why would you hand money  to the big banks when you could keep it for your.

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people. Tons of whites voted for him. Um, tons  of whites voted for him because he was saying, "We're going to get rid of race consciousness  in this country and treat people as citizens. and human beings and we can move past the division  of the like disgusting civil rights movement uh, thinking and which just anti-white zero sum." And,  uh, that Grant Park speech was like I didn't vote. for him obviously, but I was like, "God, I hope  this is true." It turned out to be the opposite.

of the truth. Yes. Just like hated whites. And  so by the time that ended in 2016, like it was. a different country. I had never seen anybody  be I mean it was a whole new time. My son was. young. He was in uh a private school at the time  that embraced all of those anti-white messages, separation. I mean, it was literally the new they  talked about Jim Crow while they're instituting. Jim Crow in educational world and all throughout  society and people in in DC embraced it heavily.

People I had known. All of a sudden, we came  from a country that was happy, self-confident, uh. really proud of America, suddenly questioning and  apologizing for everything that had come before. And obviously Obama accelerated that to a degree  that was disgusting. But it also meant you could. no longer have an informed discussion. I remember  I had been in Washington for 20 years at that.

point and I had Democratic friends. I had tons  of Democratic friends. You could have a normal. conversation, a normal meal. And it was during  the Obama years I noticed that you couldn't even. have a conversation with these people. They would  just cut you off, get instantly angry. obviously. born of some sort of some sort of cowardice on  their part or regret, but they were so vicious. against open discourse. They couldn't defend their  candidate or in that case their president at that. point, but they also couldn't discuss it and they  hated you for it. They hated you for pointing out.

if you just said simply as I did to several  Democrats, I'm not attacking Obama. Just tell. me why you support this man as our president. Tell  me what he's doing to to strengthen our country. and they would look blank or angry and that was  pervasive I think on the left. So then Trump. starts making noises about running in 2015 and  it's not even on the radar of most people in DC.

that I remember. It's like Trump I mean I talked  to Trump he called me in 2015 said I'm going. to run and I said I don't I don't believe you. I  think you're selling another book. I'd seen him do. this before 15 years previous. You know, the the  campaign was a book tour. Yes. And he said to me, I think I'm I'm going to surprise you this time.  But I still didn't take him seriously. Really, but you did. And you reached out to people.  What did you think of the people around Trump. then? There weren't many. I was very impressed  actually by Steven Miller's intellect and his.

writing ability. Yeah. And his commitment to  uh immigration reform or closing the border. I thought he was a true believer on that. I did  too. I think he probably Well, he certainly was. at the time. Uh he was a great writer and easy  to talk to and I thought committed. I don't. know what his motivations were, but he seemed  like he actually was on board for the long haul.

for this. And and I will say my entire life I'd  only been voting barely missed the 88 election, but I've been voting since '92. And in every  four years they would say this is the existential. election. Like this is the election that really  is going to determine the path we're on. And by. the time 16 came around, it really seemed with  the hangover and the depressing anti-American, anti-white. the Obama program was so dispiriting  to witness. The wreckage I felt socially.

um that this was the existential election in 16.  I felt that strongly. So Trump was the only one. Everybody else I mean Jeb Bush's program couldn't  even tell you what it was. It was forgettable at. the time, but it was the same talking points  they've been using for two decades referencing. Ronald Reagan who I was personally impressed by,  but it's not really relevant. and during the Iraq. wars and the Afghan war and all that stuff. So,  and the degradation that America had experienced.

that was so overwhelming at that time, it seemed  like an existential election and Trump seemed. fully committed. And by the time it came around  to the debates in the end, when he got the when. he finally got the nomination, this is a man who  had withtood every single personal degradation you. could possibly imagine and every attack from every  quarter of the country. I was fully committed to. his program and thought he was real. What kind  of speeches did you write for Trump? Mostly.

about immigration stuff. Uh, rally speeches  early on. Yeah. Or during the middle of the. campaign. Probably not. I'm trying to think when  it was late in 15. That's amazing. I didn't even. know you were doing that. I had a lot of freedom  to do that was the other thing. The stuff that I. delivered. It was I had a lot of freedom to had  a lot of license. I felt like I was writing from. my own perspective and that's how my that's how  aligned I was with what Trump had articulated.

It was like some of the easiest speeches to  write because they were they were honest and. straightforward and pugnacious and unapologetic.  Honest, straightforward, pugnacious. That that. came naturally to you. And you don't see a lot  of that. I mean, normally when you're writing. for a candidate, you've got the lawyer like their  campaign manager or some some [ __ ] consultant. breathing over your shoulder like, "You can't say  that. You need to soften that. You need to Oh, really?" So, you end up with something that's not  even distinguishable from the other side. Trump.

was not just distinguishable from the left. He  was distinguished himself from the rest of the 19, you know, subpar candidates who were running, but  they were all representative of that time. And so, I was, man, I never really I didn't spend time  around Trump. I I loved his sense of humor, but I loved his consistency and I loved the fact  that he never backed down, especially with these. people barking in his face and claiming he was  the worst man on the planet. Yeah. Racist. It's.

like I was someone I think it may have been you  said, "We're not hiring the guy to, you know, babysit our children." And that was just intuitive  to me. It's like I'm Yeah. But he was an outsider, too. And and also he seemed like had a pretty  cohesive family at the time. I mean that. attracted me also. It seemed like he had a decent  relationship with his children. His son-in-law. was running everything. That seemed like a good  thing. Yes. Very much so. And a huge departure. from what you when you'd seen cuz I'd seen tons of  candidates up close whose children were, you know,

drunks or drug addicts or suicidal or hated their  families, hated their parents and were losers. And. they seemed the opposite of that. They seemed  like they also believed in a heritage America. They believed in building stuff, creating  jobs, creating prosperity. And even though. he was supposedly a billionaire, he was a guy  who understood the working man. He understood. how the country worked. Sorry to go on so long,  but I was going to say when I did early research,

I didn't know a lot about our trade policies  at the time. I just didn't know the details. and he talked a lot about it, probably second only  to immigration. And when I started doing research. on it, I was shocked the amount of stuff that  we had given away just gratuitously surrendered. to the rest of the world and our trade policies  and how that had an effect on our manufacturing. I'd always blamed the Clintons for, you know, the  free trade and and our agreements with Mexico and.

Canada, cleaning out manufacturing. I was aware of  that. I'd seen it happen. Um, but I didn't realize. how deep the portrayal was until I started doing  research on Trump's individual policies. I just. hadn't been focused on it. Spring is the most  refreshing time of year. Nothing compliments it. better than Black Rifle Coffee. Lots of it. This  is an American company founded by veterans with. conviction. They built the whole thing around  a simple idea. Do it right or just don't do it.

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at least be open-minded enough. I think it was  January of 16 that I decided I'm totally for Trump. and wrote a piece about it. But the winter that  winter, I remember being at a Christmas party, you may have been there, in our neighborhood on  L Street in Northwest at a friend's really good. friend's house and um you know, everyone's there.  Every family, you know, is there, all of our kids, you know, it's like uh December 23rd kind of  potluck, right? just great great people, great. friends, and who we lived next to for so long.  And my wife, who's totally apolitical, people,

they're all grousing about Trump. I can't believe  it. You know, he's a racist. And my wife, totally. non-political wife, goes, "I like Trump." And I  remember someone, and everyone of course likes my. wife. So, but someone laughed like, "Oh, yeah, I  like Trump, too." And she no, I really do. Like, someone needs to stand up for I don't know, people  who've been shafted and none of them live here, but there are a lot of them in this country. And  like I like Trump and people were enraged with. her. Like the only time I've ever seen anyone mad  at my wife. It's just like no one's ever mad at. her. But they were mad and embarrassed and like  I can't believe there's someone who in the room.

with me who could like Trump. And she of course  like didn't even notice that people did. She's. like well no what's wrong with that? But that  was the response that she got. You were already. kind of a more de I mean you brought your son to  Episcopal school on a Harley-Davidson. So like. obviously you you're a more controversial figure  in the neighborhood. What kind of response did. you get? I had the benefit of working I say for  myself but working from home with a couple of.

clients that I'd had since 2004. So I'd already  really enjoyed have a good relationship with. them personally and I worked on issues that mean  something to me that I could defend. Um and I had. a light a lot of license to speak my mind if I had  an opportunity to do so. So I never I just didn't. live in a world where I was subservient to the  machine. I hadn't been like that my entire life. because we grew up in a different America where  you could express yourself and people expected.

you to and there was never any apology. You may  be wrong, you may be dumb, but you can say what. you think. And so I just never I'm so fortunate  that I was never forced um to think that way. I. guess I think that's the reason. Um, and then  I was just going to say if you did, you know, every four years they do the blind candidate  thing where they describe the candidate without. the name, without the history, as just literally  a policy prescription, what this person stands. for. And if you did that with Trump at any time  during his his campaigns and you just separated.

the man from the policy, he's his policy is more  closely aligned with my world view and my sense of. what it means to be America and American and to  be a self-confident man who loves your country. Like I I've never I'm sorry to jump ahead, but  I have never even knowing how Washington works, even seeing the vitrial that he encountered  and the overwhelming opposition from not just.

uh political Washington, but the media and the  corporate world and everybody else who takes. themselves seriously. Uh it was during Trump's  inauguration speech the first time and if you read. that speech as I did like this is unimpeachable.  This is not controversial. These things that he is. saying is such a breath of fresh air that no man  in American politics has ever had the balls to.

say. Why is that? Like how is it that we suddenly  we are in a country now where it's embarrassing. to say that the reason you have elected officials  is so they can take care of America and Americans. to this day. I didn't understand it then. I don't  understand it now. Maybe I'm simple minded but I. think you do understand it. I I do understand it.  Yeah. Right. I think you know it's going to oppose. it. I'm very angry about it. Right. But this is  one of those topics you're like I don't understand. what's happening here. Ah, it is unimpeachable  to say that we're here Americans. So, yeah,

I actually it was at that point that I really  started to loathe the people who who were against. Donald Trump's program. Yes, you could laugh at  him. Yes, you could say take issue with some of. moronic things that he says or the inconsistent  things he would say, but he was very consistent. about sticking up for America and Americans first  and foremost and always. And you put a Trump. bumper sticker on your truck. I'll never I did  and I'm not a bumper sticker guy at all and I did.

it I did it a little bit as an act of rebellion  because I was aware I was aware I mean I lived in. a in a in a neighborhood that you know had a lot  of rainbow flags, a lot of anti-war signs, which. I'm totally anti-war, but the idea that you're  displaying your political views on your car or. your lawn, I just find kind of reprehensive. Well,  when you live in a city that voted, you know,

4.1% for Trump. Yes. It kind of gives you license  to because, you know, everybody agrees with you. It's a one party state. I mean, reflexive and  easy to be one of those. I don't think Albania. under Hoa had margins like that. I mean, that  is just that's truly just one party state. So, um, it doesn't make people's behavior better at  all. But you decide when you know that 96% of the. people in your city disagree with you to let them  know what you think. That's what it's that's what.

it means to be an American man. I totally agree.  Amen. Nicely put. So, what kind of response did. you get to your the bumper sticker said, as I as  I recall, cuz I was just I was in love with it, amazed by it, and too cowardly to put it on  my own car. Um, it said pro, prolife, proun, pro Trump. No, was actually but it was during  the Trump era, so it wasn't explicitly pro Trump, but it certainly captured it was  and it had a picture of it was prog.

and it had the oh the sunset thing and people  reacted exactly as you would expect. Very few. people would accost me in traffic, beep their  horn, flick me off, yell at me. My car would. get defaced often. I also had a small American  flag in the back of my car that I had to keep. replacing because people would steal it. But most  people would just avert their eyes in disgust. And. um I don't know, those are the kind of people that  I just couldn't care less about their opinion. And.

even though they're 96% of the population of the  city you live in? Yes. I had a lot of friends in. DC. I love DC. I love couldn't imagine living  there now. But um no, I also lived on kind of a. I lived on a culde-sac with a lot of like-minded  people just sort of by accident and and and also. the kind of people that would be averse to those  messages which again I think are foundational to. life and certainly life in this country um don't  have the courage to attack you for it because.

they're spineless weenies anyway. Yeah. Whose  wives hate them. I totally agree with that. We. saw a lot of that. That's exactly right. Yeah.  Those are the guys whose wives hit on you. Um, for sure. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry to say that out loud,  but it's literally true. Is it not true? Yes, it. is. Yeah, it is. Um, that's the route to adultery  is a wife who's unimpressed and and doesn't honor. her husband doesn't respect him because he doesn't  have a spine. That's exactly right. Yeah. Weak men.

make unhappy women. Why is there a rise in female  cheating? Because there's a rise in weak men. That's just a fact. Uh, sorry to say that. Sorry  to blame the victims, but it is absolutely right. Um, so then the Trump Reelect 2020, you I remember  you wearing a shirt. Now, by this point, you know, I'm defending Trump every single day on Fox News.  Yes. On a not always Trump the man, but certainly.

Trump's policies and certainly attacking people  who are attacking Trump because it became a kind. of handy guide to who was against the country's  most basic interest. People were hysterical about. Trump. It was a political colander. I like to say  you put those people and it just separated those. who were pro-American and reasonable, right? Yeah.  From the rest. And the anti-white stuff, which was. always the foundation of it. It's like if you  hate whites, you hate Trump, even though Trump. was in no sense a like pro-white or anything,  but whatever that even means. But he was an equal.

opportunity lover. I got the sense. I mean, he'd  had a very public life. I think he liked all kinds. and he was nice to everybody which I never wanted  to say in public but I'm but it's well known. It's. well known. That's exactly I don't even hesitate  even to say it now but like Trump could pretty. easily prove he wasn't a racist if you know what  I mean. Sorry that I that's just true. Yes. Um, I don't think it's ever been written. But, but but  talk about demonstrable. Talk about demonstrating.

your your love for all. You don't, right? I mean,  you don't No, you're right. If you can do that, then you could do anything. You would support  someone. If If you could sleep with someone, you would support them. If you if you're  colorblind in your in your sexual aspirations, you're colorblind in everything else, right? I  think that's completely fair. That's completely. fair. No. Trump is a racist was that I always  felt like there are things wrong with Trump.

have always been. I overlooked most of them  or just tried to ignore them or whatever. And. some of them I honestly enjoyed, you know, his  vulgarity or whatever. I But um his sense of. timing is it was amaz No, there's so much about  Trump that's amazing. I completely agree. But. the idea that Trump was a racist, it was be like,  well, that's actually the one thing he's not. Why. are you calling him a race? It's not even true.  What are you talking about? Trump is a racist. I don't I don't know who came up with that.  It's because they were race obsessed. That's.

why. Right. Because they really hated the whites.  Yes. And they wanted to they wanted to wait and I. have still to this day don't understand why they  hated the whites so much. Let's let's give them. equal opportunity and credit. The the Democratic  Party also was an incredibly racist party. They. didn't like blacks. I mean, exactly. Didn't  like anybody. Whenever you're race obsessed, you're going to end up hating people on the basis  of their race. Just period. Yes. And but yet Trump. is a racist. So it's like the dumbest thing I ever  heard. But can we go back a minute one second? Of.

course, the famous quote, the fact I mean this is  another thing that I just so admired about Trump, but it bothered me. It has bothered me now  for almost 10 years. How people got the quote, the grab them by the [ __ ] quote so wrong. Oh,  I agree. Yeah, because the full quote, if I'm. not mistaken, was they let you when you're rich  famous to grab them by the [ __ ] So, I thought. that was worth some exploration, but no one else  did. In what? In what sense? I totally agree. It.

was an indictment of American culture. It was an  indictment of the kind of culture actually that. Trump had perpetuated so aggressively over two  two decades. the look at me culture, the facade. of success, the very shallow idea that you are,  you know, that your worth is caught up in your. bank account and your display of wealth when that  is such a total corrupting dead end. And it really. has hurt the women in this country. It's been to  their detriment. Obviously, we could have a lot of.

long conversation about the failures of feminism,  but one of them is that women tried to aspire to. a male sexual voraciousness that isn't conducive  to them and also isn't beneficial to them because. no man wants a woman who's been with a bunch  of men. That's like that's a law that's been. around forever, a human law. and no celebration  of supposed freedom is uh going to obscure that.

fact. And so that sorry, but that is exactly what  Trump was talking about when he said, "When you're. famous, they will allow you to do that." And  I noticed that everybody cut that part of the. quote out. Even though I thought it was the most  interesting part of the quote, he said that to a. childhood friend of ours um who was interviewing  him and who was destroyed just for being there. um which was kind of crazy really destroyed by his  own employers and their was the NBC and Washington.

Post colluded together to their detriment but  also to the detriment of their employee. It was it. was the most they destroyed their employee. No, I  demonstration of disloyalty. Yeah. Subservient to. political we'd grown up with and knew really well  and um it was just the whole thing was sad. Uh, but you're absolutely right. At the core was  Trump's vulgar but unfortunately true claim. that rich and famous men have a totally different  standard of behavior that is allowed by women.

Yeah. And um, you know, men should not act that  way. Women shouldn't put up with it. Yeah. And. that but that's a fact. And anyone who's been  in rich and famous world as I have been a lot. of my life knows that that's true. Yes. And uh  it's a problem that has at least two authors, men and women. Yeah. Is that fair? Yes. Oh,  completely. And and also it demonstrated how. committed he was because he should have  been if there was ever a time you should. be overwhelmed by shame, it was that saying  that in public, I mean, it was pretty gross.

uh and embarrassing and shocking. But the fact  that he actually debated Hillary the next day. and did a great job allowed me to believe that  this was not about his personal ambition. This. was a guy who actually cared about America. He was  willing to subject himself to that kind of attack. and not like fold up and crawl off in shame. Do  you think Jeb could have withtood the pressure? Apologize to my wife. I think is what he's I think  that was like his refrain. Wake up at 2:00 in the.

morning every night sweating and apologize to my  wife. I think he Sorry. I think he said that to. Trump during one of the debates. I think Jeb Bush  turned to Trump and said, "Apologize to my wife.". It's like, "No man demands an apology from another  man who offends his wife. You either you punch him. in the face or you take care of it on your own."  You don't you think? I mean, if you're going to. defend your wife's honor, it's not on a debate  stage with those kind of words. If Jeb had walked.

over and just smashed Trump in the face on the  debate stage, perfectly appropriate. I may have. voted for him if he had done something like that.  if he'd been capable of doing something like that. otherwise he actually I hate I don't ever revel  in other people's uh misfortune but one of the. great things about Trump was his dynasty bashing  destroying the fact that he had destroyed the Bush. hold on the political world on the right um was  one of his greatest accomplishments even more so.

I think than destroying the Clintons because  he's never really followed through with that. and rather he's never prosecuted these people who  are so outside the law. But he did peel back the. mask of these globalist [ __ ] who who've had such  an effect on our on our lives for so long. Well, he really meant it with the bushes. He hated  them because they were wasps. He hates wasps, but he's also obsessed with them. I've talked to  him about it many times. And he's obsessed with.

them. And he feels uh I mean the whole Mara  Lago was built when he was denied entry into. the BNT. Yes. Which is like totally been lost to  history. They're directly across the street from. each other. And he built uh he built his club. I  was happened to be there. I was in Palm Beach. It. was 85 or 86 something like that. We were staying  with our friends there. you were there and we're,

you know, having lunch at the bath tennis club  and everyone's like, "Oh, this Donald Trump is. building a club across the street for basically  to give us the finger and no, we're not letting. him or any of his friends in our club and I don't  think they have to this day 40 years later." Um, anyway, uh, that none of that was ever reported  by anybody, I'm aware. They focused on the flag, which was pretty cool. There were a lot of there  were a lot of dynamics here going on that nobody. ever wants to talk about. We just happen to have  witnessed them firsthand, so I know exactly what.

this was. But Trump's resentment toward the Wasps  was the driving force there really. And he was an. outer burrows guy. Never felt accepted by them.  Always wanted to be always bragging. I went to. Penn like okay Penn you know like they never liked  him. They never accepted him. And boy did he get. them back. Yes, he did. And even to this day, I  mean, six weeks ago, I was talking to him about. this. His resentment toward the bushes and its  ethnic and social. He acknowledges that literally.

upfront. No, of course not. But it's like, but  he's very fixated on the Wasp thing and does. talk about it a lot. I believe it. Yeah. With me  anyway, it's always like, hm, what are you saying? Um, but whatever. I don't care. Ignore it. But  u group in America that's kind of fixated on the. wasps too. I noticed. Well, yeah, I've noticed  that too. Equal fervor and hostility. Yeah. I. don't know. But you know, you get what you put  up with and they put up with it and like, oh,

it's okay. You have a good point. Um anyway, but  yeah. you know, he wanted to destroy the bushes. because, you know, he didn't agree with their  program, I guess, or he said he didn't agree with. their program, but the real reason he wanted to  destroy them was, you know, they go to the BNT and. he doesn't. You don't think it was his anti-war  position? I thought it was, too. Okay. So, let. me say this is like one of the reasons I'm just so  grateful to talk to you is because you were there.

and you saw a lot of the stuff and these details  just get lost and you know some details are not. worth preserving cuz like who cares but some of  them really are at the center of the question like. this is why things happened. Yes. And everyone  lies about everything all the time. And you just. want like somebody somewhere in the distant future  to know what actually happened. Yes. Preserve the. truth. Preserve the truth. That's preserve the  truth. So I just want this to be a record of the.

truth and that you know status anxiety which is  a huge driver of human behavior is it not? It's a. huge driver of President Trump's behavior. Huge  driver of his behavior. You know plays a role. in all this stuff. These unannounced conflicts  between groups for power and prestige and rank. These are big questions. Yes. Yeah. What drives  human behavior drives policy in the end. Exactly. And so if you have the total displacement after  over 200 years of the American ruling class by a.

new group, that's a big thing. Yes. But nobody  says a word about it. And I'm not I'm not even. taking sides in it that you know, obviously I have  a side to take, but taking sides. I'm not taking. sides in it, but like that happened. It happened  over 40 years and now it's it's complete and like. no one can say that that happened. Are you are you  kidding? It's absurd. Yeah. But and but good or. bad like by the way that is a story of history  like groups displace other groups and there's.

reasons for that and survival of the fittest and  all that. Got it. I'm not even decrying it. I'm. just saying the fact that no one will acknowledge  that that happened and that it had massive effects. on everything and that it those resentments or  aspirations drive behavior that has results that. we see all around us like and no one will say it.  It's really shocking. It is. It's I remember I was. saying there was a girl called Katherine Rempel.  Remember the Washington Post, but she was like a.

Fox contributor or something. Not impressive at  all. But I was sitting on the set with her in. a commercial break once. She was like a sort of  liberal neocon type person but not smart. Anyway, we're talking and I'm trying to be nice and she's  like younger person and I'm like, you know, where. are you from? And I grew up in Palm Beach. You  grew up in Palm Beach? That's sort of I know Palm. Beach. Don't go there anymore, but I know it, you  know, well. And um she goes, yeah, I grew up there. and something about this or that. And she's like,  yeah. And we moved there and my dad sued the Bath.

and Tennis Club for discrimination because they  wouldn't let him in. And I'm listening to this. I'm like, he sued a country. Your dad and I, if  I'm getting this wrong, I just want to apologize, but I'm pretty sure I remember this conversation  like it was yesterday. This is 10 years ago. Yeah. He sued because they wouldn't let us in. And  I'm like, not sort of not my job to tell you. that these are private associations. Like I don't  know what are you even talking about. like that's.

repulsive to me. A club should have you should  have the right to hang out with whoever you want. to hang out on whatever basis you want to make  that decision. But she was like bragging about. it and I was like the hatred behind that like  the desire to destroy something that you didn't. build was like so evident. This this girl's a  hater actually. That's what I realized talking. to her. Plus that she could be so unselfaware  and understand that that is the most repugnant. thing. Of course it dominates American culture  now. It wasn't acceptable when we were growing. up. I know. No, I'm aware. Anyway, um Okay. So, I  just want to establish for people who aren't aware.

of all these dynamics just that they do exist and  they're absolutely consequential and we're seeing. their effects, but no one will tell us that. So,  in your specific case, 2020 comes around, Trump. is running for reelection, and I go over to your  house. We lived obviously in the same neighborhood. and you're wearing a shirt that says Trump reelect  reelect the mfer. that you're wearing this shirt.

So, I I'm establishing all of this just so people  understand that you are not a fair weather Trump. voter. Is that fair? That's fair. Could I actually  give give uh thanks to Doug Davenport for that. shirt? What a good man. What a great man. Yeah.  Doug Davenport's a Washington figure who is like. in the rare the tiny group. Yes. That you  belong to of people who really were on the. Trump program. Yes. supportive. What was it? What  was the experience of wearing that shirt like at.

that time? Actually, you would you could get, you  know, shot. It seemed like wearing that. I'm not a. big hat guy, but I did occasionally wear my MAGA  hat that I got from signed from Trump and his, you know, not very well attended victory party  in 2016. Um, did you go to that? I did. Was there. till 4:30 in the morning? I walked out. You were  like an OG Trump man. You're my only brother. I. didn't I I mean I knew that I saw you that night,  I think. Right. Yeah, I had dinner with you. Okay.

Yes. No, I had dinner with you. You were on Fox. I  remember. Right. I was on Fox, right? I was like, what was I doing that night? I was sitting on a  set with like grumpy Britt Hume and that guy from. 60 Minutes's son Wallace. And they were like,  I can't believe this couldn't happen. And I. was like psyched. And everyone hated me for being  psyched. But we had dinner. I totally forgot that. cuz you're going to the Trump victory party.  What was that like? Really? Really? Actually, it was one of the greatest things ever. We showed  up. We went We went out to an additional dinner.

I was with my wife. Went out to an additional  dinner. Had a great dinner. Two dinners. Two. dinners. Went to this wonderful French restaurant  that no longer exists in in New York. Uh showed. up at the this very sparsely attended uh  victory party. And the best thing about. it is it had a wall of televisions from floor to  ceiling behind the stage. And it was an upclose. uh picture of all of the assembled people in  the um in the Javit Center, which is where all.

the Democrats and the victory Hillary party was  taking place. Uh no one seemed to think Trump was. going to win until of course he flipped Florida.  Um and then it was a rockus party. It was it was. actually Who was there? Do you remember who you  ran into? Oh, I got almost got knocked over by. the I'm trying to remember her name now. She was  the female governor of of Arizona. Just plowed, just super hammered. Uh, do you remember her? I  can't remember her name. I do remember her. She.

was a smoker. She was a smoker. She was a massive  drinker. She was jubilant. People were jubilant. I. mean, but like to go to the Trump party in 2016.  No one even bothered to go. I ran into Kellyanne. Conway Fitzpatrick or whatever she was at that  point. Conway, I guess, that morning at like 5:00. a.m. on a set at Fox. She's the campaign manager.  Oh, I remember. And I said, we're in the hallway. I'll never forget it right off off the set. And I  said, "What do you think the numbers are tonight, and you always ask the campaign manager  that like election day?" And she goes,

"I'd say 45 43, something like that." There's a  campaign manager telling me, I've talked to a lot. of campaign managers on election day, like for  since 1992 or whatever. I've never met one who. didn't predict victory on election day ever. Ever.  Doesn't matter. Plus, it's bad ju guu. I mean, your job is to demonstrate the utmost optimism  even in the face of So, if you're campa And by. the way, Trump thought he was going to lose, and  I think he said that. He certainly said it to me, but I know that he I know that he believes he  was going to lose. So, if you're going to the.

Trump party when the candidate and his campaign  manager both believe they're going to lose, but you're at the victory party. We knew it was a  snapshot in history. We did. I actually did think. I know because you pulled our table. We had  a table of about eight people for dinner and. it was me and Caitlyn Collins to her credit. Oh  wow. Two of us I think I think you said I think. three of us out of like eight or nine people said  Trump was going to win. It's kind of crazy this is. going to like set off conspiracies. But you and I  are having dinner with Caitlyn Collins on the eve.

of the 2016 election. I love Caitlyn Collins. I  don't even I've never seen her on TV cuz I don't. have a TV. But I don't watch her on TV either.  I'll preserve my sweet girl. Well, I know you're. not allowed to say that, but I thoughts of her in  that dinner cuz she was she was riotist. She was. a great girl. She's a smart girl. She's a great  girl. I totally agree with that. Despite whatever. she says on TV, I'm not even aware of it, but  I'm haven't watched CNN in a decade. Hired her. out of college and always thought so much of her.  She's one of the hardest working people I've ever. met in my life. That girl, I don't think she  slept past 5 a.m. in her entire life. Like,

she is a worker. You're admirable. I respect  that. Yes, I do. Almost above everything. Anyway, uh so you go to the party. It's sparssely  attended and then he wins. Then it transforms. Jeff Sessions was right next to us. I love Jeff  Sessions. Me too. Good man. Great man. Uh t you. know not tons but a few elected officials that  I recognized from around the country. Not many. uh mostly mostly Jan Brewer. That's exactly Jan  Brewer. Sorry. Governor I think I prevented Jan.

Brewer from falling down. She fell into me and had  full momentum and I remember pulling her back and. she couldn't have been cheerier. Saving governors  just not a grumpy drunk political superman. Hold on. Governor, it was amazing. In fact, not  only did they not think they were going to win, it was really hard to assemble the entire team and  the entire family. I'm assuming some of them were. asleep. I have no idea. Once it was clear that he  had won and the best part of this celebration was.

seeing in real time Florida floor to ceiling  all of the self- assured really uh vindictive. celebrities and other elected officials who had  assembled to uh cheer on Hillary in tears. I mean. just inconsol. So you went for the suffering  that I did. I don't normally but there it was. really hard not to appreciate. I mean, it was  in technology. The sense of entitlement that the. Hillary people had. It was it was crazy. It's her  turn. She never done anything like Well, she had.

flown a million miles when she was Secretary. That  was literally like her top her top talking point. I think she had a record of like zero achievement.  Zero achievement, but really high self-regard. But. the most benal observations about the world.  Like I always thought that she had, you know, high feral intelligence, but I never thought  there was any evidence that she had any abstract. intelligence at all. Like conceptual intelligence,  like she couldn't understand the world. She was. too busy surviving. She was a survivor first and  foremost. She was a cockroach. Like that way. You.

couldn't kill Hillary. I mean, we've been around  since Hillary showed up on the scene. No. Been. there the whole time. I ran into her in Riad. Yes.  Sign two months ago. You think you were there? Yeah. No, I Yeah, she's still here with her beard.  Hua. I almost ran into her. I I walked in and wow, Hillary Clinton. It's like right in front of me.  She's like 4t tall at this point. Confirmation. that she's still with her girlfriend who's  married to George Zoros. I know. I mean,

what a shame that is. Most people don't talk about  that. They should. I know. I'm sorry. She's in. public life. She doesn't have a private life. It's  worthy of examination. Yeah. Sorry. I'm gonna I. I'm gonna stick to my no outing policy. The only  person I broken it for is Barack Obama. I just. couldn't. I'm sorry. You know why I I did that?  Because I I really don't think that you should. do that. I feel guilty every time I call Lindsey  Graham gay. I shouldn't be doing that. That is not. the Christian way at all. The only reason I did it  for Obama was because there was a guy, an accuser,

and they arrested him and like tormented him  and he like died in poverty and obscurity. pretty recently. He was a very screwed up dude.  He was kind of sad prison gay kind of guy. He was. credible. He was absolutely telling the truth.  There's no question about it in my mind. I mean, you know, it's he said, he said, but I don't even  know if Obama's denied it. But it was Obama was on. the down low for sure. Big time. And everyone's  like, "Oh, how dare you say that?" Well, his.

biographer said that. Obama himself in a letter  to a distant cousin of ours. I'm embarrassed. to say we have a relative who dated Obama, but  um which is like shocking, but anyway, I don't. marinate on that. I know you don't. But anyway,  in a in a letter to a relative of ours said, I you know, I I've considered being gay, but it's  not challenging enough. It's like, did you ever. write letters like that in college? I don't think  I wrote letters to any men, actually. No. Did you.

write letters to your girlfriend being like,  you know, I was thinking about being gay. Just. think about, you know, this morning I was thinking  maybe I should be gay. That's not not enough of a. challenge. I would say about Lindsey Graham, it is  fair game because that man holds somehow a lot of. power over America's future and America's boys who  fight in our wars, right? And he is No, I know. It's just I think we have to in our business or  just in life fight against the tendency to judge.

everyone but ourselves for sure. And I think if  you're going to tell the truth about other people, you should be require you should require yourself  to tell the truth about yourself first. So cuz. it's just so easy to be like, "Oh, they're bad.  They're secretly, you know, sodomites." Okay. Well, we're all secretly something. So like it's  just important to say that. Anyway, sorry. Um, did you say we're all secretly something, not all  secretly sodommites? Sorry, just to clarify, no,

we're not. I mean, speak for myself. There is  a lot of that in the Republican party. I don't. understand it. It's insane. Can't be accidental.  Someone we had dinner with last night who's very. wise said, "Demonic influences concentrate  on those with power." And that is so clearly. true. Believe that was my wife of 35 years who  said that. No, she's a wise chick. No, that is. totally right. Demonic influence concentrates  on those who have power. Beware of power. Yes,

that's why it's and those who seek power. Yes. No,  that's that is tr that is true. It's a chicken and. the egg thing to to screwed up people go in to  politics and business or does the ex the reality. of living near power having power is does that  destroy them? I think clearly both. I mean they've. done studies that show an inordinate amount of  sociopaths gravitate towards elective office and. also corporate power. Really? Yeah. Yeah. This  past year actually they something like 60% or.

something demonstrabably sociopathic. Yeah. I mean  if you're if you if you wake up every morning and. say I am the wisest, I am the toughest. I'm the  leader of all men and I can make decisions for. other people. There's something wrong with you.  I've never thought that one time in my life. I've never looked in the mirror and said, "You're  a leader of men." I've suffered some delusions, but not that one. Not that one. I'm like, Yeah.  Well, this is why I think this to myself all.

the time. We should require every man to  have a mirror outside his shower. Yes. So, as you emerge from the shower every day, you see  this lumpy, furry primate staring back at you, and you're like, weird for places. Can't take  yourself too seriously. Yes. Amen. God bless. our women tolerating and loving us despite that.  There's this amazing exchange uh between Jesus. and John and Jesus and Peter, excuse me, at the  end of the Gospel of John when Jesus reappears.

and a couple of the disciples are fishing on  the Sea of Galilee and Jesus has prepared this. like basically fish barbecue breakfast. He's  cooking fish over charcoal. And and and I don't. understand a lot of what it means, but there's a  one point at which Jesus says, "When you're young, you dress yourself." I'm paraphrasing, but when  you're young, you dress yourself and go wherever. you want. But when you're old, others dress you  and take you where you don't want to go. And I.

know that there are of course theological meanings  that I'm not probably not smart enough to fully. that means a lot and I don't understand everything  that it means. But on the most literal level, it's true that, you know, there comes a time for  all of us when we lose agency. Yes. And autonomy. and sovereignty and we're dependent on others and  we're so reduced. I'm going to make you emotional. thinking about it because it's the nightmare.  Jesus describes it as a nightmare. By the way, he doesn't say it's okay. He's like, "This is  bad. It's going to happen to you and it's going.

to happen to all of us." And I just think it's  important to keep that everpresent. Well, it's. a really good reminder to respect and love love  those who are younger than you and those in your. orbit to really pay attention to your children and  your and your extended family. I mean, these are. the people you'll be, you know, dependent upon  when you're older. And we that is not a concept. that you hear much in America. I mean, we move  away from our family members. We move away from. our parents when in fact we should be embracing  them, learning from them, but also taking care.

of them. Yes. Absolutely. No, that is really  smart. It must be by design. It doesn't happen by. accident. Nowhere else has that happened. People  leave. Well, I was watching Ben Shapiro the other. day and he said, "If you can't find a job in the  town you're from, where your parents are buried, where you spent your whole life, that's on you."  Yeah. Move out. Yeah. Move out. Go somewhere else. Become a migrant. Like, who do you think you are?  You think you deserve to live in the town you grew. up in just because your parents are buried there  and your grandparents built it? You think you have.

some right to that? Don't you understand the rules  of capital of the globalized economy? Like who? Honestly, the gall. The entitlement. You should  reap the benefits of that which you've worked. for your entire life and that what your your  ancestors have worked for. Yeah, man. I don't. think there's anything that's upset me more than  that clip. I I mean, his many attacks on Jesus, his calls for, you know, slaughtering populations,  it just the bigotry, the cruelty of his program.

I don't think anything has made me more enraged  than that. Just the kind of like what you think. you have a right to a community to a nation. Who  do you think you are? This is a concept. Yeah. This is an idea. Yeah. Exactly. It's a really evil  idea. Yes, it is. Is the truth and not sustainable. as we're learning. No, no, not now. Of course, it  leads to collapse which was of course the point. Yeah. Because it's animated by hatred. Yes. And  people who espouse ideas like that are lying.

They're not ideas. It's not a philosophy. It's not  an ideology. It's an expression of hatred toward a. population. And that's real. Like nothing's more  real than that. So um anyway, sorry getting your. field. Um I beg your pardon. Uh so but to Trump  because I just think it's so interesting what's. happened. So there are three elections for Trump.  You vote for him in all three. Yes. And you do so.

not reluctantly but enthusiastically. And in  fact you and you work for Trump. You write his. speeches at the beginning. You know the people  around him including his son-in-law. And and you. you're kind of punished for it by your neighbors  and by people you know. I'm sure you lose business. for doing that. But you keep doing it. What's  the moment where you're like, uh, I don't know. about this? I'd had a few reservations probably  during one. I thought actually early on I was.

confused that he brought in first empowered  his son-in-law who I was kindly disposed to. and thought was motivated by loyalty to Trump's  program and to Trump. And then early on, you knew. you knew Jared? I did. Yep. And corresponded  with him quite a bit. met with him a number of. times during the early administration. Uh, one of  Trump's obvious uh Well, I met Jared through you, so I know you know. Yeah. one of Trump's obvious  def deficits to anybody who was looking at him,

even if you loved him for being an outsider,  you knew that Washington was like a really. complicated machinery. And you need people who are  um well-versed in navigating it and make making it. work because the federal government is just an  enormous kind of out of control machine. And if. you don't have people who understand the levers  of power and how to propel your program forward, you will fail. and especially Trump who had a very  adversarial Republican party. Weasels like Paul.

Ryan who had been elevated by Trump's victory and  was newly the speaker of the house hated Trump. And so why would Paul Ryan hate Trump? That's  a really good question, especially because he. should have been really grateful that Trump was in  power and thereby his power derived from Trump's. success. But none of them none of them seem  to feel that way. But Paul Ryan especially. hated Trump. Yes. Yes, he did. What What do you  think that comes from? I think he was a weak man.

and a bitter man. Um, and boy did he use his  obstructionist power to the detriment of not. just Donald Trump, but the people who had voted  for Donald Trump. Um, so early on, Trump didn't. take that seriously. One thing that made him super  attractive was he was an outside candidate. He. wasn't a politician. He was a businessman and  he was there for a very specific purpose. And. yet he came in and not only didn't understand how  Washington works, he didn't take the appropriate.

measures to protect himself and his agenda. Uh  instead he reverted to type and you know hired a. bunch of Goldman Sachs people and billionaires and  empowered his son-in-law who had been a Democrat. until the day before. uh I think through the  election he had been a Democrat uh and a globalist. and so that was concerning and upsetting and  then the country got completely overwhelmed by. the faux controversy around the Russia stuff  which was on its face absurd. If you knew.

anything about Donald Trump or anything about the  campaign, you knew that not only did they not rely. upon Russia for help, they had a hard time like  coalesing their own power. I mean they were not. an organized machine and that they were not allied  with any foreign power and so that was insane but. it occupied the country. I'm still quite bitter  about it actually and people don't talk about. it. Uh we've suffered so many humiliations on the  national stage since that people don't focus on.

it enough. Um, but it paralyzed the country and  paralyzed the administration. And I felt like. Trump is responsible for that because leaders  need to be able to delegate and they need to. recognize where their weaknesses are and they need  to account for those weaknesses and he didn't. Um, and he empowered a lot of people he shouldn't  have empowered. So I was dispirited during the.

early administration. Um it was clear to me  and anybody else who was watching that he was. going to win re-election despite all the COVID  stuff. And at that time we didn't know uh the. details how complicit Trump was by empowering the  pharmaceutical companies during CO how responsible. he actually was for that offense that biological  war against the country that he's supposed to. lead. Um at that time I think most people and I  was were sympathetic to Trump the position that.

he was in. Um and then when so it was clear that  he was going to win re-election. I thought it was. clear that he won re-election on election eve.  I mean he was over the top. I mean the numbers. were there for him. He won until they stepped  in and and took it away from him. So and then. I thought he acted crazily. I mean, who is who  is they? The summer of love with George Floyd, which was obviously a complete scam. Uh, the man  was killed. Uh, unfortunately, but he had had,

you know, he' stuffed a bunch of fentanyl his  ass and he was upright and forthright with the. cops who showed up on the scene. The famous video  started actually minutes before when he'd come out. and come out of the store and he was sitting in  his car with those two other people and he tried. to pass the counterfeit dollars and he said  to the cop, "I cannot breathe." Um, so it was. clear that it was a manufactured crisis from the  beginning. It was designed to divide America and.

it was designed to get rid of white cops. Get rid  of white cops. Preparatory to whatever's coming. next. Yes. Very much so. And the lefts, you know,  Antifa hordes took over neighborhoods in America, destroyed statues, killed people, destroyed  businesses, ran rampant all over the country, but also in Washington DC where Trump was  president. Uh he didn't have any natural allies in. the media. Of course, they distorted it. They lied  about it. That was clear. But Trump is the chief.

executive. Trump is the president of the United  States. And yet he failed to exercise his power. and to quell the riots. He he failed to articulate  what was going on. He failed to defend the law. enforcement officer who was still riding in prison  by the way uh who was wrongfully prosecuted and. um you know obscured the original uh report  that demonstrated that Floyd had died from a.

fenol overdose. But really he failed to exercise  his power. Trump did. He failed. You allowed. a riot outside his house. I called him at that  time. Like, dude, you cannot allow people to set. things on fire across from your house. You're the  president. Uh like the oldest Episcopal church in. the St. John's country. Yeah. Um so he he abetted  that by weakness or indecision or whatever, it. doesn't matter. He failed in his job to reassert  power and control and he failed to articulate what. was at stake and he failed to protect himself and  his countrymen and his physical country. So yes,

I was upset about that. Um and then he won  re-election. He also he won re-election and. was taken from him. that even his efforts  to galvanize support throughout the country, uh, to direct the FBI to investigate, to  direct the Department of Homeland Security, um, to articulate clearly that it had been stolen.  He just kept repeating silly talking points that.

weren't that compelling and made him look crazy,  but he failed to use the power at his hand. Um, and then of course it was taken away from him and  he sold off into igniminy. He was was impeached. but not convicted. And then he went off into  the wilderness where he soon started raising an. enormous amount of money. And my understanding is  that he raised over a billion dollars during those. wilderness years. And every time he spoke about  it, it was all about Donald Trump's personal wos,

which were significant because these people were  not only trying to crush him legally and abuse. the judicial system against him in in Florida  and Georgia and New York famously, but it was. all about Donald Trump. It was all about the  Donald Trump suffering. It was never about the. people that had gone there with legitimate  license to protest against an election that.

was stolen from them, stolen from them in front  of them. Uh these people were exercising their. first amendment rights to speech and assembly and  they were crushed by their own government and they. were crushed by people within their own party  and the other party. They were crushed by law. enforcement. They were emedded by the military.  They were vetted of course by the media and the. corporate losers all over the country. So there  was a a major headwind but Trump has the strongest. voice in the country. Even then people listen to  what Trump said. Trump could have an impromptu.

press conference wherever he went. Whatever Donald  Trump said was worthy of listening to. So he had. the biggest microphone in the country. And he  never once utilized that for the benefit of the. Americans who'd supported him, not only in 16,  not only throughout the entire Russia nonsense, not only throughout the George Floyd nonsense, but  through the election in 2020. That gave me a lot. of pause. I was like, what kind of reprehensible  human being would not? It's the most basic thing. to protect your friends and in politics, your  supporters, but anybody who's on your side and.

your fellow Americans. And he had a lot of  power to do so. and he didn't exercise that. power on behalf of anyone else. It was all about  Donald Trump. So, there was a period. This is make. you're making my heartbeat fast. Sorry, I was No,  you're right. hadn't tapped into this emotion in. quite some time. Uh, a lot of people are having  this discussion now in the context of Trump's. obvious betrayal of the American public. not just  his voters, but the people who who thought 16,

20, and certainly 24 were absolutely existential  elections and that there were there was no other. person on the planet who could come in and write  the ship, return sanity to our great country to. save our country is like the last opportunity on  every front. Like we're crumbling. We're we've got. these enemies within. We've got these enemies all  over the world who'd taken advantage of us during.

the Biden years because we had such a weak and  incompetent and obviously joke of a presidency. and all these people around Biden who had wielded  his power in his name to destroy this country. Uh. so Trump was legitimately the last hope in 24. Um  but before that in 2021 22 in 21 and 22 when he. was raising all this money and it was the Donald  Trump you know victimhood show uh he had failed.

when it mattered to articulate what Americans were  protesting during during January 6th to articulate. that it was actually a conspiracy by the federal  government abetted by all of these other big Yeah. I'm the one who put that those tapes out there. I  don't know how it fell to me, but yeah. Yeah. I'm. like some stupid cable news employee, right? You  have you're just you're a truth seeker and Yeah, but I mean that's it. But you have no  institutional power. No, it's like a dumb.

cable news show. Who cares, right? But but what's  the point of having law enforcement? What's the. point of having a military? What's the point of  making if you can't rely upon them to protect the. constitution and protect the Americans who abide  by it and pay their taxes and work hard and raise. their families and love this country and so Trump  failed on a monumental level at that time. Um, did that was after CO. Now, you said something  really interesting. You didn't take the vax. Thank.

God. Literally, thank God. Never once considered  it. I didn't either. So, obviously, thank God. Um, but Trump did and encouraged everyone else to  take it and then never apologized even when it. became clear that the vaccine killed hundreds of  thousands of people around the world. And this. never really been studied in this country, but  we can extrapolate and assume it killed I mean, it killed people. I know. Me, too. So, um I know  young men now who took it who have myocarditis. and other heart weird cancers. It was poison. Look  at the cancer rates. Look at the fertility rates.

Like everything about it was a boweapon aimed at  us. Yes. And Trump didn't apologize for that. I. don't know. All the things that I've just ignored  or forced myself to ignore whatever. My flaws. come out as I remember all of this and my shame  emerges. Welldeserved shame. But anyway, Trump is. completely absent shame about it. He to this day  we'll still talk about the success of Operation. Warp Speed which allowed these things to come to  market which allowed the You know what he said to.

me? I actually raised it with him because I'm so  upset about it. It's just killed too many people. and it made too many women infertile and it's just  the most evil thing ever and it's still on the. schedule and it's so immoral. It's hard to believe  this is even happening. But um he did exactly the. same thing again. And it's my fault for not being  like, whoa, that's a red line. I can't cross it. But he did the same thing he did on the Iran war.  When I talked about the Iran war, you say, well, like, this is hurting all these people. He's like,  you don't believe in the polio vaccine? Like, that was a good vaccine, don't you think? It's  like, I guess I believe in the polio. I don't.

know. I mean, but that's not what we're talking  about. Doesn't The polio vaccine is a totally. different thing. I mean, I don't even know enough  about it. Even though we grew up next to the Sulk. Institute. Yeah. It's like, what does it have to  do with it? You mentioned Iran. He's like, "Do. you think they should have nuclear weapons?" No,  I don't think not for nuclear weapons in general, but it was it nonsequiter designed to shut down  the conversation. And the same tactic that's.

been employed by his political adversaries  his entire political life. Exactly. So, it's like really, you're going to misquote,  you're going to misdirect, you're going to. Yes. dishonest. Construct a straw man. Yes. There  we go. Well, you're an anti-semite. You're racist. If you think a rock should have nuclear weapons,  are you pro-Islam? No, I'm an episcipalian. Leave. me alone. I mean, what? I saw data yesterday  that said 80% of Americans took the kill shot.

7 million babies have been compelled to have this  shot this year alone. This year? This year alone. Yep. And every medical uh every Are you being  serious? I'm being totally serious. every every. uh new med student who comes out of uh doctoring  school has to is compelled to take it. Hospitals. are so bad. So, you got to commit an abortion  and take the mRNA shot before you can become a. doctor. Wonder why, you know, doctors are like the  worst people in America. Um cuz they break them.

at the outset. Exactly. They make them complicit  in a true crime. Yes. And once you're complicit, it's like you you can't join MS-13 until you  kill somebody. You you can't be an OBGYn until. you murder a baby. Then you're like in on it. You  can't wear wear the Hell's Angel's patch until. you shot someone in the face and got in gorrhea.  Okay. No, it's so right. Um, yeah, there's almost. too much. Sorry. Uh, you're you're working me up  into a frenzy. Sorry. Me, too. I shelved some of.

this for Okay, so that's kind of my question.  So, this all happens in CO. You're a COVID. dissenter. You're an an honest man who believes  in actual health. Yes. You're not taking the shot. your family's not taking the shot, but Trump is  encouraging the shot and then is still encouraging. the shot and they're still giving it out under the  Trump administration. Was this a red flag for you. or you just like, "Oh, it's too much. I can't deal  with this." It's really so hard to keep track of. it because at the same time, the entire world  seems like it's crumbling all the time. Seems. like we live during the Twilight Zone, during the  Biden administration. Everything was like a daily.

offense. Like really, could that be happening?  There are no adults around like no one's going to. tearing down all statues to whites replacing them  with like the judicial system has become totally. corrupt and frightening. Exactly. Jury trial  is like a nightmare scenario. Yeah. I mean, you. don't have any peers left in America to try you.  Jury of your peers. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh man. No, you're right. There's just a cascade of tragedy.  So it's like hard to they got to earn a living.

at the same time and protect your family and your  children while all of these offenses are going on. It's really hard to keep up. But when you start  thinking about the things that Trump had done, especially when you're looking back now on the  incredible not just betrayal, but his sense of. disdain for the people that had worked on his  behalf, for the pe people who' believed in him, for the people who had sacrificed so much. And it  really, it's hard to know, hard to remember now,

but it was only a couple years ago if you said  you were a Trump administration. Uh if you were a. Trump voter, Trump fan, uh people had license to  like beat you up in public and take your stuff, smash you in the face, take your hat off your  head. Like that was the prevailing attitude in. America that was allowed to continue. Like law  enforcement would never come to your rescue. It's like, oh, it's like the age-old thing. Oh,  you wear a [ __ ] outfit so you're being raped. It's like, "Oh, you wore Trump paraphernalia,  therefore you know that you're going out in.

public and someone's going to assault you." Like  that was pretty much the law of the land during. so many years. I think it's my perspective about  it. Um Well, literally true. Yeah. Literally true. Yeah. Terrifying. So, um I didn't focus on it.  And also, you know, it's a binary choice. Who. was going to run this country? It wasn't obviously  cackling cameltoe was not going to be entrusted. with power. Who is cackling cameltoe? She's that  uh was she on the ballot? I I actually voted in.

this election. Don't normally do it. I didn't I  didn't see any cackling cameltoe on the roster. She was that Jamaican lady who you know was the  AG of California. Yes, that one. And then she the. woman who couldn't pronounce her own first name  consistently. Literally three or four different. pronunciations hammered all the time. And not in  a good way, but her husband's like smacking women. around and also probably on the other team, I  think. So, I mean, I never But it was a joke.

and it was an in-your-face offense daily. Like,  I mean, these are the people who employed Karine. Jean-Pierre at the the White House podium, right?  Totally forgot about her. I mean, we grew up at a. time where serious people presumed to speak on  behalf of the president of the United States. President of the United States was like had some  decorum a ton. He was the daddy. You know, you you. even if you didn't agree with the president of the  United States, you kind of respected him. I mean,

he's got all this in power invested in him  on your behalf and every word mattered. Every. word was parsed. And the people who spoke on his  behalf were serious people. And my entire life. they were serious people. It was like So maybe  it's inevitable that you get once the patriarchy. has been overthrown as it has been. Yes. You  get a president like this who's emotional all. about himself is perpetually the victim. Remember  they used to say the president's most valuable.

commodity was his time. Yeah. That's the most  valuable thing the president has. What does he. focus on? How does he spend his time? He's got a  finite amount of time. What does he focus on? And. with Trump, you're like, "Oh, he's focusing on the  iTunes background music for his his thing. He's. focusing on the, you know, new arct to Trump that  he's putting up at the end of Memorial Bridge. He's focusing on uh the ballroom." It's like,  are you serious? Get real and get serious about.

your responsibilities. And he, no one ever says  anything about that. In fact, these days I find. this is a new phenomenon I've never encountered.  You attack Trump on the basis of substantive. policy decisions that he's made, betrayals that  are obvious and quantifiable, and you will get. people in your facing. How dare you attack the  president? Are you serious? That guy works for me. That guy works for you. Yeah. Listen up, [ __ ]  Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, your your opinion.

matters. My opinion matters. Every American's  opinion matters. We should be heard. We should. be respected. And no way am I going to be cowtowed  and not not saying the obvious, which is this guy. has failed in his responsibility. He is disdainful  towards the American people. He's disdainful. towards the people who put him in office and the  people who sacrificed a lot real physical and. economic injury to get this man in office. and to  witness the vitrial and the moronic the moronosy.

and just the neverending me me and you're not with  me I'll define what the program is now once I'm. in office it doesn't work that way you define the  program before you run for president people attach. themselves not to you as a person they attach  themselves to your program for their benefit. and that's the whole point so yeah I'm mad about  it so when what was the breaking point for you.

as someone who had a Trump bumper sticker, wrote  his speeches, voted for him three times, wore the. Trump t-shirt, wore the MAGA hat in Northwest  DC. What was the point at which you and and. who also has acknowledged that like for a decade  attacking Trump, hating Trump, being mad at Trump. were all kind of markers for attitudes that were  anti-American, anti-white, anti you. Absolutely. So like for you to be criticizing Trump in  public and to feel as vehemently as you do,

you certainly justification. I think you've shown  that. But to say it is another question. Like what. was the point at which you decided like I can't  I can't be part of this. Part of it is the the. rebirth he had in 24. It was just the I mean you  could discard as irrelevant a lot of the attacks. on Trump because they became just like background  noise. Oh, he said this. Oh, he even early on when. he oh, he asked Hillary he asked the Russians to  steal Hillary's emails when that clearly wasn't.

what he said. That was clearly wrong. Oh, he  is and he's a white supremacist and he's never. denounced these people. I mean, all of that stuff  took on. It was such universal background noise. that you'd be like, "Okay, you're absurd. Anybody  who says something like that, you're just a liar. You're dumb. It doesn't even mean it doesn't  mean anything." Um, but then legitimately upset. about his failure to stand up for America and  Americans during the George Floyd thing, his.

uh complete abnigation of responsibility  with with January 6 political prisoners. Uh, but he pardon them. Oh, he did pardon them. He  did. And that represented the first time that he'd. ever stuck up for them. And when really mattered  is when they were, you know, rotting in prison. with no constitutional guarantees of a speedy  trial or uh hygienic conditions or ability to eat. real food or not being assaulted by cockroaches  or, you know, prison guards who use them as sport.

And it was completely not only allowed, tolerated,  but expected, and even celebrated in the media and. by Republican- elected officials, many of whom are  still in Congress, by the way. Um, so there was. that, but he yes, he pardoned them once he was in  office, but my understanding from several people, I remember witnessing it at the time because I was  upset that he said nothing on their behalf. Again, that's the power he could have wielded when he  was in the wilderness. He could have talked about.

them first and foremost. He could have informed  people about the conditions they were in and he. could have supported them. But he also could  have supported them with the huge financial. cash that had been flooding in to him personally  cuz he never stopped raising money. He raised an. enormous amount of money in the wilderness years.  And he spent not a dollar of it for the benefit. of those people. Didn't pay for their legal fees.  Didn't take out advertisements on their behalf. Didn't do anything that he should have done that  anybody with a lot less resources would have done.

So, um I forgot your question. Forgive me. Given  all of that. Oh, but he pardoned them. I said, but he originally pardoned them. Yes.  But it took an enormous amount. There's. uh someone named Suzanne Monks who is was  very active advocate on their behalf. Uh. I think she's a wife of a fellow who was  incarcerated. I may be getting that wrong, but she was dogged and persistent uh throughout  all of it. And she claims now, and I believe it, uh, she's reminding people at the moment that the  Trump we have now that has betrayed his base and.

well beyond his base, every other American who  relies upon him to steward this country with. sobriety and concern for them first and foremost  and only. um that it wasn't easy to get Trump. to pardon them, that she had to personally  rally people, and you were helpful in this, uh to push his hand, to force his hand, to make  it untenable for him not to pardon them. And so he.

did. I I did do that. I talked to him about that.  I know you did. Yeah. Just on principle. I didn't. you know whatever. But but you say on principle,  it's principle that you have. It's not principle. that Donald Trump had. You got to fight injustice.  That's the whole point of leadership. Yes. Very. much so. Is to help your people and to the  extent you can. Like we're never going to defeat. injustice. It's the state of the world. But you  have to keep trying. Yeah. You do what you can. And he had a lot in his arsenal to do that. And he  did it. And it's pretty easy as he's demonstrated.

to sign documents. Pretty easy. Pretty pretty easy  to, you know, to sign executive orders, whatever. power they have. But uh so it was it wasn't a  lot of skin off Donald Trump's back to do that. uh he did the right thing and I applaud him for it  just as I applaud him for closing the border. It's. like those two things. I can't really think of  many other things that he's done. Uh I can't think. of anything else really that he's done. Um since  he's been in office now for a year and a half. Um so he did the right thing eventually under  great pressure and good for him for doing it.

But he could have done it a lot earlier. He could  have made a much greater impact for the benefit. of those Americans who were not rich, who were  not wellknown, who were motivated by completely. reasonable and constitutionally protected outrage  over what had been done to them. I mean, they are. representative of America, not just Trump voters,  America and Americans, the best kind of people,

I think. and to see them. By the way, in the  background, I know it didn't get a lot of news. at the time. Periodically, it would. No time in  American history has the FBI been rallied with. such vigor and focus and uh economic empowerment  like to go in and root out these supposed, you know, criminals. What had they done? They  had walked on the grounds of the US capital,

the people's house. Exactly. And then they gone  about back home to their hometowns to take care. of their children and their jobs. And they would  have manhunts like publicized manhunts with, you know, 30 guys in SWAT gear and helicopters  in their neighborhoods. Arrest the unarmed. whites. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Meanwhile, all of our  cities are crumbling and Washington DC was like a. free-for-all for gangs and carjackers and people  walking around with guns in public. You know, it's okay for the criminals to have guns, but god  forbid there would be some hardworking taxpayer.

exercising his right in the second amendment and  the first amendment. So, the two foundational. freedoms in our country and Trump was unwilling  to protect them in any meaningful manner until. he signed their pardons. Again, good for him  for doing so, but uh he still failed in that. responsibility as far as I'm concerned.  So, what was the breaking point for you? Really, initially it was the the attack on the  attack on Iran initially last year when I guess.

we successfully eradicated all of their nuclear  capability. Were you aware? Cuz it was still. on. I'd heard that. It may still be on the the  White House website because it was on there as. even when we engaged in this latest war with  Iran, this unnecessary what will be probably. a forever war that will has killed Americans  and is going to degrade us as a country. Um. significantly already has. Um it was that and then  it was his reaction, well his complete failure.

uh the first year to hold anybody to account  for all of the crimes, the obvious crimes, all. of the things that had been exposed from Russia  to COVID policy to the January 6 stuff. I mean, all of that has been demonstrabably revealed to be  the Capitol Hill pipe bombers. Capital Hill pipe. bombers. uh all of the the Biden era corruption,  the autopen scandals, the preemptive pardons, the.

the people who had abused their national security  credentials and their their positions of power to. hurt Americans. That is all laid out laid out even  by his own intelligence officers. Tulsi Gabbard, you know, a year ago revealed that Barack Obama  was directly guilty, I believe, of treason. And. I don't know how you could say it any other way.  A former president who advocated and financed and. allowed his national security apparatus to survey  and obstruct and take out a sitting US president.

who again is not a man. He is representative of  the power that we invest in him as Americans. So. it's not an offense against Donald Trump. It's an  offense against you and me and everybody we know. Um, so his complete failure to utilize the  information that he had at his fingertips and in. justice department and by the way, US Congress, US  Senate, three levers of power supposedly designed.

and at his disposal to enforce the law, to restore  sanity, to hold people accountable for breaking. the rules um to the detriment of our country and  Americans. And he failed to do that. And then he. attacked Iran. Then Charlie I guess there are many  other things in between. But once uh Charlie Kirk. was murdered, I feel like he failed on a tonal  level. I don't feel that he displayed enough real.

sympathy or focus on finding Charlie Kirk's  death. I mean uh killers forgive me and on. solving the crime on using the entire apparatus  the US government to solve this crime in a way. that would allay people's fears of a conspiracy  or other things going on. Donald Trump should have. gotten up and given a press conference and said we  are going to find out who's responsible for this.

It doesn't matter what the what the end results  show. We have a responsibility as a public figure. who was publicly assassinated and we're not going  to tolerate this and whoever is responsible for it. is going to be brought to justice. And he totally  failed to do that. I think he failed to articulate. that and he failed to use again the apparatus that  is entrusted to him uh to do that. And it's a huge. apparatus, by the way, which while the rest of  America is degrading and getting less effective,

I think we have a very effective, very clued in  uh surveillance and technology and well-funded. US military and law enforcement apparatus that  knows every detail about Americans at all times. They can reconstruct. They could tell, you know,  if you were in the capital during January 6th. through a whole variety of means, but your cell  phone primarily. They know who was there. They. know who's everywhere. They know where you are at  all times. They can listen in on you, but they can.

certainly pinpoint where you've been and what  you've done. So why wouldn't you utilize that. power to the benefit of justice? Yeah. I mean, the  director of national intelligence, the head of the. counterterrorism center, like these are people  who are appointed by you to root out corruption, um to, you know, fight back against foreign  threats, make Americans safer. But yeah, defend our defend our citizens against not just  attack, but foreign attack if there's any element.

of foreign involvement here, which it seems early  on there was. Um, and then the fact that he Sorry, can I continue this answer only because  it makes me so mad? The weird the weird. dynamics surrounding Charlie Kirk's death, the  investigation, the initial press conference. held by the supposed head of the FBI, Cash Patel,  who said a lot of nonsensical things behind that.

podium and no one has ever explained it. What does  it mean? What does it mean to see I'll see you in. Valhalla, Charlie? What is the significance of the  number 33? What does that mean? I don't know. No. one's ever been compelled to answer that question.  But Cash Patel stood at the podium and made a very. big point. He could have made a lot of points.  First of all, they released they released video. of the supposed killer, Tyler Robinson, jumping  off like a 20ft uh roof. It was a very bad quality.

video, even though they had high quality video on  an entire campus. They released this ridiculous. like absurd like 1973 quality VHS tape video uh  of the supposed killer. Uh they released all of. his supposed text messages that detail all of the  if you were looking to incriminate yourself, if. you had gotten away with the perfect crime, then  you inexplicably decided to write down everything,

every incriminating detail of your crime. Um  we're supposed to believe that he did that. We're supposed to believe that the guy in the  crowd, George Zinn, who'd been in very various. other hot spots like the Boston Marathon  bombing and he'd been a witness at 911, that George Zen is going to just immediately erupt  uh out of his seat, take his trousers off and run. down screaming, waving his hand, saying, "I shot  Charlie." Like within the first 30 seconds of it,

right? Like you wouldn't if you wanted people  to believe. Feels a little Jack Ruby. It does. very much so. I was expecting him Tyler Robinson  to be visited in prison by Louis Jan West. Yes, exactly. I pronounce you crazy. And then you have  an inexplicable fastest acting cancer that kills. you within 6 months. Oh, that's normal. Um,  but sorry, back to the Cash Patel thing. The. fact that he gave this press conference that was  devoid of any re real detail that you would want. in the aftermath of this public execution.  Uh but then to emphasize things that seem so.

random and inexplicable like Valhalla. Who the  hell knows what Valhalla is and why? How is it. appropriate to this? Well, Scandinavians, we  know what Valhalla is, which is, you know, it's the Norse Norse heaven. It's a it's a  pagan understanding of heaven. Yes. Right. So, Charlie Kirk is a serious orthodox, you know,  lowercase O Christian. He's like a real Bible. believing Christian. Yes. He does not believe in  Valhalla. He rejects Valhalla. Yes. Like that's a.

that's ridiculous actually to say that about  a a Christian man. Valhalla. Yes. No. We're. monotheists who believe in Jesus. There's no  Valhalla in my world. Yes. Why would you say. that? And no one's ever held him to account. He's  never been felt compelled to explain that. Or the. emphasis on 33. It took 33 hours to bring this guy  to justice. And then he repeated it several times. I don't know. I literally have no idea. So  everything surrounding it creates obviously.

unrest and disillusionment and anger. Can I  say my favorite line? We we had dinner with. Russell Brand at home last night. Obviously  you were there and his line that you know the. thing about lone gunmen is they always seem to  assassinate people who challenge institutional. power. It's kind of amazing. Your average  lone gunman just goes out, who knows why, and kills people who are criticizing the people  in charge. Maybe the people in charge should.

connect with the lone gunman community.  Kind of like McDonald's and Coca-Cola. got together. It's just like a natural  partnership. Have they ever thought of that? So, I shouldn't be laughing about  the murder of a friend of mine, but like it is the absurdity. I'm not laughing at  the murder, but it's Yeah, the lone gunman. Yeah, that that's incredible. The lone gunman never take  out anyone who's helping establish power. You ever.

noticed that? Oh, I have. You'd think they'd stop  using the lone gunman. They've used him so often. Um, but it was the war that finally scrambled your  eggs. Yes. And yes, the war, Charlie, and then of. course the Epstein files. Oh, the Epstein files.  Epstein files, the JFK files, the 9/11 files, all things that he had committed to showing  to the American people who actually own it and.

have every right to know the details about that  huge terrorist attack and and the assassination. of our president. And obviously the Epstein  network, which not only had a ton of victims, but obviously represented uh hidden power over  our elected leaders. So Trump had committed to. doing all three of those things. He's done none of  them. But beyond just abdicating his power, he was. uh disdainful of those. This is when he first  started defining MAGA, make America great again.

as Donald Trump the man, like investing within  himself in almost biblical fashion. Like no, MAGA is not what I articulated clearly and  coherently for 10 12 years in public life. and as president of the United States. MAGA  is what I say it is today, tomorrow morning, anytime during the day because I'm Donald Trump.  So I will determine what is MAGA. And further, if you consider yourself to be allied with this  political coalition that I created over a decade,

then um I don't need you. If you're insisting upon  transparency and the things you're insisting upon. me making good on the promises that I made to you  in this, you know, relationship that we have, I. promise you something. You vote me into office so  I can affffectuate the change that you voted for. Then, uh, if you were insisting upon that, then  you're a flipping cook and I don't need you. So,

it was really at that moment when that was his  response to the Epstein files. And then when he. engaged in the most ham-handed PR stunt I've ever  seen, which was great because it revealed how many. fake paid for, you know, supposed influencers  there are on the right, brought them to the Oval. Office, gave them binders full of Epstein material  that had already been in the public domain for a. very long time and said that was the entirety of  it. And then of course, because he's Donald Trump,

he contradicted himself six or seven times. you  know, this was Epste wasn't real. Epstein was a. pedophile. He didn't have any victims. He got his  elected officials out there to say those things. in front of Congress. It's just laughable. And um  and then of course he turned on Marjgery Taylor. Green who I think of all the elected members  of Congress represents in sincere hardworking.

fashion what it meant to be a not Trump fan but  a Trump lieutenant. I mean, this was someone who. was inspired by Donald Trump and Donald Trump's  program to leave her successful business, run for. Congress. Uh, and thank God for her because  she got there and discovered what a captured. institution it is, how flawed the individuals  there are, how hostile they are to the American.

people who put them there, and specifically the  Republican voters who put them there. And then to. see Trump turn on her and treat her the way that  he treated her was, you know, she's an individual. and she's tough and she can handle it. But that  kind of like repetitive crazy disloyalty and to. treat someone who had actually put themselves to  hard work to great effect um was unforgivable. I.

thought that's when I really started. She texted  Trump and she said, "My son is getting threats. because I've disagreed with you on the Epstein  files." And Trump responded to her by text message. and said, "He deserves it. It's your fault. People  are threatening the kid's life." And Trump says, "No, no, no. You you you brought this on him.  It's on you." That's disgusting. It's outrageous.

I didn't know that. That's it's terrible. It's  terrifying too actually to be so tonedeaf to be so. evil but to also be so tonedeaf. So what and then  the the war in Iran which he clearly you know had. no plan for wasn't enthusiastic about at all. He  was fully aware of the risks. He was fully aware. that it was a betrayal of his explicit promises  for 10 years not to do this. He did it he did. it against his will. That's my highly informed  read. Yes. I mean I could be wrong. you know,

you don't know what people's motives actually  are, but I mean, from very close vantage, I can. say I don't think he was excited about it, but he  did it. Um, clearly he felt he had no choice. So, and I think that's widely understood. Yes. Yeah.  Uh, but I have no sympathy for him for doing that, right? I don't. Why? Sorry. Because he Yes.  sees Donald Trump the man, but he's just one.

man and invested in him by all of us and  you know 72 million American voters is an. enormous responsibility. Here's a guy who had had  demonstrable success in his life, had done a lot. of things, accumulated enormous power and money um  and has a big family. He's 80 years old. He's got. grandchildren. I just don't have any sympathy for  someone who is I do have sympathy for a regular.

person who is being threatened and pressured.  Yes. Um so physical threats. Okay. So someone. shoots him. They've tried to shoot him. Someone  tried to shoot him twice. Um that's demonstrable. But his level of fear over that to me is not even  I'm not sympathetic to it. It's not excusable. He is not just one man. He's the president of the  United States. He even if his power is limited, as he's demonstrated, it obviously is limited.  He does have the power to stop and hold a press.

conference and be like, I'm I don't know what it  looks like, but he could say, I'm under incredible. pressure from this outside force. Obviously,  Israel is is exerting this pressure on him. um he. could be forthcoming and straightforward about it  and rally the American people behind him. People. who not be so a lot of people know it. A lot of  people are aware of it and they're upset about it. and he should just acknowledge it and say, "I'm in  this untenable position, but I'm no longer going.

to put up with it." And even if our government is  thoroughly corrupted in in every single aspect of. our government and there's this outside foreign  power that is generating all this fear, there. are some elements of the US government he could be  using to his benefit to root them out for sure. It. just requires him to have the fortitude to declare  it. The other thing is No, can I just ask you a. question? Yes. the that is one thing you learn  from growing up in DC and just being around it a.

lot is that these agencies are totally corrupt and  that the structure of them is just rotten and it's. really hard for good people to have any effect on  outcomes. Doesn't mean there aren't good patriotic. intelligent people serving in every single one of  these agencies. And you never want to say a nice. word about CIA or DoD or DO or whatever they're  calling it now, but any of these agencies, but. it's just a fact that there are really good people  motivated by patriotism who work there and they're.

not the majority clearly. They're not in control  of the levers obviously, but they're there. Yes. And some of them have migrated over to the White  House. I mean, they work there right now. I know. them. So, and really smart. like, "Wow, I can't  believe there's someone that smart works in the. government, that patriotic, that pure of intent,  like really good people. I can hardly believe it.". I guess maybe it's just a numbers game. You you  get 10 million people in a government like some. of them are going to be outstanding, but they are.  And like there's been so little effort to to find.

them, to empower them, and to the extent that they  have been empowered. Joe Ken for example, they get. completely destroyed. Yes. And then you have like  people like Sebastian Gorka who I don't even know. if he's an American citizen, but he's clearly  like a highly damaged person, not a smart person, not a loyal American in any sense, and he's still  there. It's such a daily offense to those. I guess.

what I'm saying is, and you would just know this  because of the life that you've led, you could. make a good faith effort at identifying those  people. Of course, you'd have to go through there'. be a huge fight. It was very, very hard. Yes. But  you could try to find those good people, right? Yes, I would think so. That's my point. He could  coalesce the true, legitimate, smart, dedicated. Americans who were there who must feel impotent  rage over what's going on. They text me. I mean,

they're all like on the verge of resigning.  Yeah. No, I know. Uh it's been hugely dispiriting. actually that Joe Ken seems to be the only one  who's come out publicly and on principle. Well, they're all making this calculation like the good  people and there are a ton of them left in the. administration including in the White House. There  are good people. I just can verify that there. are yeah with good. I mean they don't all agree  with me on everything but that's okay. But their. motives are pure. They're not there to get rich.  They're there to serve their nation. And they're. all thinking to themsel, the ones I have spoken  to, which is a lot of them, like, well, you know,

I'm I'm here. I can do good on the margins. Like,  something will pass my desk and maybe I can have. an effect. Like, God put me here for some reason.  I should probably do my duty even if I hate it. Yes, they have to start thinking bigger picture.  You may be right. You may be totally right. I'm. sure they're siloed or whatever. And and I'm  sure that's some comfort to know that they're. being true to themselves and true to the country,  but at some point it's going to take it's going to. take those people actually talking to each other  and saying enough is enough. I mean, I actually.

think we do have remedies for an outofcrol  megalomaniacal, you know, destructive president. I. think, you know, honest people who have that power  should consider taking it. 25th amendment is there. for a reason. It's not crazy to talk about it in  this context. If if our country is is suffering. great and lasting damage, which it seems to be,  then sober minds need to come in and exercise what. power they have for the benefit of all of us.  Easier said than done, I'm sure. Right. Easier.

said than done, but I mean, it's certainly I think  saying the truth, whatever you think that it is, is the first step toward redemption of yourself  and of your country. Yes. Tell the truth. That's. your number one uh duty. Can I say one other  thing? Of course. I'm certain the fear of physical. the physical threat is real. Yeah. Obviously  demonstrated a lot. But also if it's shame,

if there's blackmail material, as there is on so  much of our elected officials, if there isn't, Trump, it's like, I'm sorry. You've demonstrated  that you don't have any personal shame. I mean, you've demonstrated that a lot. You persevered  through all of these accusations of disgusting. personal behavior. How shocking is it really  if there are pictures of you doing compromising. things? Not very. And it doesn't even matter. Like  actually, I hate the term, but sack up. Yeah. Like. really, you again, it comes back to the obligation  that he has, not just to Donald Trump, to.

everybody else in the country. Well beyond Donald  Trump. Who cares? He can survive. So looking back. being because I mean you and I and everyone else  who supported him, you wrote speeches for him, I campaigned for him. I mean we're implicated  in this for sure. Yes. It's not enough to say, "Well, I changed my mind." Or like, "Oh, this  is bad. I'm out." It's like in very small ways, but in real ways, you and me and millions of  people like us are the reason this is happening.

right now. Yes. So, I do think it's like a moment  to wrestle with our own consciences. Uh, you know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will  be and and I want to say I'm sorry for misleading. people in it was not intentional. That's all I'll  say. But anyway, but the question does present. itself immediately like what is this? Was this  always the plan? You don't want to be a conspiracy. nut, but like clearly there were signs of low  character. We knew that. Yes. But it didn't.

There are tons of people of low character who  like outperform their character. It doesn't have. to be sort of the norm actually these days. I say  I've outperformed my character a lot. I don't have. especially high character, right? But you know,  you try to whatever you try your best. But um. but what what what was this? Was this always the  plan? You know, looking back after the last year. and a seems like it kind of was and it's easy.  Well, you could get really deep about it and say,

"What was Butler like? How was it that he and Ryan  Ruth?" I mean, he was subject to two legitimate. assassination attempts. Have we ever gotten to  the bottom? I know you've talked a lot about this, but have we ever gotten to the bottom? I haven't  talked a lot about it. I don't know the answer, but I know that those investigations have been  stymied. Fact. Yeah. Stymied from the very top. from people who actually would have the power to  get to the bottom of it. And the motive feeling. Yes. Very much. So, um, the enormous amount  of money he got from Miriam Adlesen now seems.

it seems suspect to a lot of people at the time,  but you know, there's a lot of money in politics. to run for president requires an I mean, Cackling  Camel toe went through $2 billion in 4 months. So, um, sure, there's an argument to be made that you  get money from those who will give it to you. It's. just the the nature of that game. But it's still  reprehensible and it's still a big question mark.

Why would someone who has obvious and demonstrated  allegiance to a foreign power give Donald Trump. $250 million while he's running for president? I  mean, how is that defensible? It's really not. Um, if Russia had given a pack for Trump, you  know, if the mayor of Moscow had somehow, you know, assembled an enormous amount of money  and put it in a in a 501c3 for Trump's benefit, would that have been acceptable? Of course,  it wouldn't have been. So, what does someone,

it's so basic, comes back to the money, like  what did they get in return for that amount. of investment? And it's clear I get it. No, I  mean, of course, I agree with every word that. you're saying. I just think given his behavior  and his demonstrated disloyalty and viciousness to. previous supporters. Yes. Why wouldn't he display  the same lack of loyalty to Miriam Aden? I mean,

that's kind of the question. The only people he's  been loyal to are the neocons and his donors. So he's attacked, you know, so he attacks Islam.  Some of us stand up and say, "Probably shouldn't. be attacking a religion." Oh, you're a Muslim.  Secret Muslim. You love Muslims. No, just I. like reverence. And I don't think you should  attack people on the basis of their religion. Don't attack the religion. Yes. Um and all these  like evangelicals are like, "Oh, you see you're.

a Muslim." The next week he attacks Jesus. Okay.  Cuz it's all connected, right? Clearly. Of course. Yeah. well beyond money obviously. Well, but the  one person he's never going to attack is Rebi. Schneerson. Yes. And uh you know the Habad leader  who's passed but who I'm not attacking by the way. um but who was regarded as the Messiah by  many of his followers. I don't think Trump. should attack him to be clear, but Trump would  never attack him. That's the one Messiah he will.

never attack. So like what is that? Tell Am I  wrong? No, you're not wrong. No, it's totally. cool to attack Jesus. Oh, it's a joke. I'm a I  was saying I was a a doctor. I heal people. Well, that's what how Jesus described himself. By  the way, you're still you're attacking Jesus. Yes. No. Demonstrabably so. He did obviously on a  Sunday. You're attacking Jesus on a Sunday. It's. totally fine. But we all know and again I'm not  asking that he attack Reben. He should not. But. he never would. He'd die first. So like what?  Can you tell me what that is? Gosh, I wish I.

knew. I wish I knew. But I know, but he should be  called to respond. I agree. Yeah, very much so. It makes no sense. Um although it's revealing  as you're indicating. Plus, Trump is a totally. secular human being who never held the Bible,  didn't put his hand on the Bible. Obviously, that's an offensive statement right there that  should have been. He's the only person in the. United States who's never put his hand on the  Bible during his inaugural. Yeah. What the hell.

is that? I don't know if that means he's a secular  person. And I think it means he's got a different. religion. No, I'm saying he had been perceived  as a secular individual. And clearly there's So. where does this go? I wish I could answer that  question. I don't know. I don't It doesn't seem. like we're getting out of Iran anytime soon. It  doesn't seem like the Straight of Hormuz is going. to open anytime soon. It doesn't seem like BB  Netanyahu is going to allow us to achieve peace.

Doesn't seem like American power is getting any  any stronger. Doesn't seem like the American. people are going to stop suffering anytime soon. I  think at some point, I mean, there are mechanisms. for dealing with a with a government that's  not responsive. I hope it doesn't go there, but. it does if you People are upset, man. I've never  seen anything like it, actually. Is that true? Oh, people are outraged. And why wouldn't they be?  I mean, do you don't and you at this point,

I mean, given your views and your name and your  life, like you're not hanging out with liberals. You've never hung out with liberals ever. You're  the least liberal person, American li liberal. You literally carry a gun and smoke  unfiltered cigarettes and I have one. Oh, of course you may. And sleep in bed with dogs  and like the whole thing. Um, so it's not you're. not coming at this from like you don't have  a lot of friends who are Starbucks baristas,

right? I do not. Right. No. Although I do share  I mean I wish I kind of wish I'd listened. The. evidence was there that that Trump was not  didn't have a stable footing and wasn't What. are the by the way? Let me ask what is that even  still sold in this country? Camels they're very. hard to find. They're very expensive especially  in a world where tobacco is quite expensive. Those have been made continuously since 1913.  These came I think every American military man up.

until Vietnam had these in his in C-rations. Yep.  Uh General Blackjack Persing Yes. cabled back from. France to President Woodro Wilson and said, "Send  more camels. We will win the war with these.". A friend of mine right before this interview, great guy named Paul Leslie was uh sent me a rider  from Frank Sinatra, one of Frank Sinatra's conf.

uh concerts in the early '8s and it was a rider  stipulating all of the various things he needed. in the back room. It was like, you know, specific  chocolate, specific booze, and it was two cartons. of Camel Straits. Isn't that great? You've been  smoking those since you were a child. Mhm. How do. you feel? Empowered. I really do. I do. I feel so  much better. I've been back on them. I left I let.

them aside. I never thought I was a quitter and I  left these behind for a decade and a half. Is that. true? I did. I love nicotine, but actually having  the physical having this in your hand, being able. to exhale, being able to It's an amazing taste.  It's unrivaled taste. It is that that's the brand. I smoked my whole life and it's just a it's  a great cigarette. By the way, it's a lot. lighter than people believe. Yes. Lucky Strike's  a lot tougher. Actually, I agree with which our. father smoked. Yeah. Is a strong cigarette,  but um no, that's not a strong cigarette,

especially a smooth cigarette. Yeah, I totally  agree. Flavored with chocolate. Um same formula. pretty much. I think we'd have to call RJR to find  out, but it's no different than I the one I smoked. in 1982. I think I was 11 in 198 good cigarette.  Um, so anyway, sorry. But my only point was, and I. think it's obvious to people watching this, you're  probably not hanging around with a bunch of, you know, non-binary Kla Harris voters. So most  people, you know, voted for Trump and strongly.

supported him very much. So how do they feel?  I don't know a single person who doesn't feel. betrayed, left behind, upset, hostile, freaked  out about the consequence of this. Yeah. I mean, it's not a small thing what we've done. I mean,  if you're if the president of the United States is. not just your I don't think of my protector, but  he's the protector of the country. He represents. the country. That's correct. And that's his sole  job. actually one job, one job, one job only is to.

husband the resources that you have that you  were given. And he's failed on every level, but he's also degraded what we have, what we had,  and was already under attack for so long. Um, so it's unclear what's going to happen. Uh, but  I've never seen, you know, I'm 55. I've seen a. lot of what could have become unrest. have never  seen more fertile ground for real unrest than.

what we have now. Especially with the advent of  AI, the current economy, our debt, and you know, the prospect of more Americans dying in a country  they can't find on a map and fighting a fight that. they can't articulate, don't understand, and  don't want. So, you got to wonder if that's. accidental. I mean, like, if you wanted to destroy  the country, this is exactly what you'd do. Well, the entire program for the latter half of my  life has seemed designed to weaken this country, to divide people, to make them less happy and  more enslaved. It does seem that way. I, you know,

I don't I don't know that there was like a meeting  at Bilderberg or Bohemian Grove or whatever. It's. so precise and so overwhelming and so universal  on every front that it could not have been. accidental. These are not just Yeah. You wonder if  it was a conspiracy of of instinct. I mean, when.

the George Floyd thing happened, I was confused  as to what was going on because I'm lit literal. I mean, I'm against, you know, obviously vandalism  and rioting and hate the whites. It's just like. that's just a no-go for me immediately. But I  didn't understand its purpose. I didn't understand. its scale. Like, I just didn't get it. I was  mesmerized by what was happening in Minneapolis. outside the convenience store, right? And the New  York Times ran a piece, I'll never forget it. And.

in it, they quoted some art critic from New York,  like from the West Village or something. It was. literally in New York. And he said like two  days in, he goes, "This is the revolution.". It's like people, certain people tuned in to  the frequency of destruction of evil. Yes. Like they recognized it immediately just like  they recognized Trump immediately as a threat. to them. They've neutralized that threat somehow.  But um I guess but anyway, they could feel it. And.

this art critic whose name I can't even remember,  but he's he was celebrating it. I must say he was. celebrating Oh, absolutely. He was absolutely  celebrating it like cuz but he knew that this. was more than simply about the death of some guy  trying to pass a bad hundred at a convenience. store. This was a reordering of American  society. We're going to get rid of all the. white cops because we need to do that in order to  something whatever. I mean there's some reason why. they wanted that. And you effectuate peace. Yeah.  No, probably not. Um anyway, protect the women and.

the children. Protect the women and the No. To  destroy. That's the point of evil. Of course. So, uh I don't know maybe  these are unknowable questions. It's can't be it can't be um it can't be a  confluence of random events. It is clearly. by design. It's clearly been a long-term plan.  That's just obvious. Last question. Do you given. the attitudes you've described like total contempt  for people who supported him, total reverence for.

or unwillingness ever to criticize people who are  clearly opposed to the United States? Do you feel. personally threatened? I think the backlash that  we're going to see in whatever comes, I mean, the reaction from the lunatic left is going to be  overwhelming. They may be disorganized now. They. that's the other thing we didn't talk about is  that Trump's coalition that he put together he had. so demonstrabably and definitively spanked shamed  uh destroyed the left destroyed I mean the level.

of dispiritedness and disorganization among the  left in November of 24 and December of 24 I mean. they didn't engage in any kind of retrospective  or they didn't try to figure out how they could. represent the country or the party or fix the  problems. Of course, they never do that. But. we're going to take this opportunity to help black  people since we love black people so much. We're. going to we're going to spend our years in the  wilderness trying to elevate black people. They.

didn't do that. Never occurred to them. They'll  never do that. But they'll never do that. But. what they did do was uh they recognized that their  political fortunes were dashed for some time to. come because it was obvious. It was obvious that  Trump had a total mandate to do the things that. he had been, which is obviously why people are so  upset that he didn't grasp the nettle and do what. he said he was going to do because he had such  fertile ground to do it and he had both houses of. Congress and he could have actually accomplished  a lot more than just signing executive orders and.

closing the border. God bless him for closing the  border. But why hasn't he, you know, expelled the. 50 million people who are here illegally? Why are  we still importing people? And they're announcing. now we're going to import more people. We're  going to give citizenship to the illegals that we. supposedly were going to deport. Now we're giving  them citizenship. It's absolutely obscene. Um but. but people don't talk about that enough that he  the the way forward was really rosy and it was. a rebirth of America in November of 24. People  felt that and the left was crushed definitively.

And now we're, you know, several months from the  midterm elections. It seems very clear that the. Republican party hasn't delivered anything. Trump  delivered a war and delivered higher prices and. delivered misery. Um that's demonstrable that and  unless it's a corrupt election, which of course. it will be. Um the Republicans are going to lose  power. Trump's agenda, if there is one, is going. to come to a halt. And the left has if anything a  very long memory and they are vindictive planners.

um they are not you know reactive they are  they are reactive but not effectively so. they're effective planners and they spend a lot  of time thinking about this and the retribution. they will use retribution Trump was accused of  you know planning retribution it would have been. actually justice he never made that point though  he should have um restoring order and restoring.

justice to the system the left is going to be  vicious and it's going hurt a lot of people. at a time when probably not Trump 80-year-old  Trump probably not probably not Trump's family. either which is something we haven't talked about  because the focus that he's had we talked about. you know he's focused on arches and music but  he's really focused on business for Trump and. the Trump family and they've conducted a lot of  it and they've amassed a lot of wealth on paper.

but also a lot of real assets and real cash and  uh they're going to be inoculated ated and none. of his supporters will be. So, Uncle Buck,  thank you for having Buckley SP. Carlson, thank you for having me. I love it. I love it.  I will see you in Maine. I love it. Thank you.