Billy Bush Reveals NBC's Secret Attempt to End Trump’s Candidacy, and Why It Failed Miserably

When you realize I mean, you obviously. learn the hard way. I did too, but the. people who run the business. are just not good people. There's some. friendly people. There's some certainly. some um smart people. There are some. people who are good people, but in. general, I worked at three different uh. TV networks full-time and then two. others part-time. And I just found as a. rule, management they just weren't. people you would make the godparents to. your kids. are afraid. I mean, I just think it's. like. Is that what it is? linear television, you know, now the big.

companies, I think people are terrified. You know, you see management, they don't. know where they're going to be the next. day. So, leadership is is hard to find. And.

and gutsy leadership. You look back at. the you know, the days of great sitcom. television. You look at you know, Brandon Tartikoff and Grant Tinker and. some of these great legends that said, "You know what? We're going to stick. with this Seinfeld bomb. It's he is not. the ratings are terrible, but. That's right. what a there's something there and we're. going to hold on to it and we're just. that you know, as your audience is. shrinking and the gains are shrinking,

people are just terrified. They're. looking over their shoulder. They're. wondering if you know, am I the next to. get fired? So, I I I mean, that's absolutely right. I. forgot Seinfeld was a bomb at first. not not doing well. I totally forgot that. Imagine someone pulling that off the. air. They would do it now. Didn't work. after two episodes or three episodes. This didn't work after a year or two. years. That's in No, it's incredible. Right? They had the runway though cuz they were. making so much money. NBC was making. money in every category then. And it had some and it had some good. lead-in and all that stuff and then they.

they stuck with it and now it's, you. know, makes more money in reruns still. than most original shows. That's incredible. Yeah. You start you've been in TV for like 30. years or in broadcasting certainly for. 30 years. Um. I I I still think though even when the. business was making a ton of money it. was a dishonest business. That's the way. it felt to me anyway when I started at. CNN. Yeah, I mean it's. you know, I look at all the places I've. been. It's. uh.

I think of what I think of our. I think of the moral high ground. Like. it doesn't exist. What does that mean? People you're grappling for the moral. high ground. Anyone who gets fired based. upon, you know, for moral purposes. They. try to use the morality clause which. every talent has in their contract. The. morality clause. They lunge for it. This is coming from people who. don't have a leg to stand on when it. comes to that. It's like it's just a big. laugh. Everyone, you know, the firers. are all.

completely morally compromised. So. So well that's I mean. I would just look at each other let's. all look at each other for a second. Really? Do any of us belong standing on. this? This is all about gain. Okay, who's up, who's down. And then why. No, I of course I know what you're. talking about and. I I think that from a obviously long out. of it but I think of that from afar when. I see these people getting all huffy. about this or that moral transgression. I'm like, wait a second. You know, you.

slept with my intern. You killed your. own intern or whatever. You know what I. mean? Let's call the whole thing off. No, that's right. But um why I'm just. like general question but why why not. just call you in and say, you know, this. isn't working for us financially. Why do. they feel the need to dress it up? Not. not I'm not speaking specifically of. you, but it's always like. Well, that's the Megyn Kelly situation, right? I mean, I love Megyn. Why not. call her in and say, "We gave you way.

too big a budget. This is giant. And the. the ratings aren't there. And also, you're doing something different." Megyn. I love Megyn. She's a friend. Uh she was. a ferocious attorney interviewing people. at 9:00 at night. And then, you know, the daytime show with a da da da da. It's, you know, like, "Here's the fresh. muffins, everybody." And you know, it's. just all of. a sudden, it's like what. Well, it's like Martha Stewart years ago. had a version of The Apprentice after. Donald Trump had The Apprentice. They. gave one to Martha. They thought that. would be great. But Martha had a. different idea. Her idea was.

"I'm going to write sweet handwritten. notes on pink stationery. I'm sorry, we. have to let you go." No, that's not the. Martha we want. The Martha we want, the. Martha we love is. cold and tough and. the nutcracker. Yeah, nutcracker. You're out of here, You're gone. That's the Martha we wanted. Um so, you. know, this is. it happens that you have to stay, I. guess, you know, is such a great example, though. So, they they hire Megyn. She's, you know,

got a kind of. Fired by the same man that fired me. And. instead of saying, "Hey, the ratings. don't match the. $40 million a year budget or whatever it. is.". Uh they fire Megyn for asking a question. about when blackface. uh. fell out of vogue or was not acceptable. at all for Halloween and things. I mean, remember. think of all the late-night comics who. are working today that used to regularly. do blackface on their shows, okay? Uh.

and there was a time where if a girl. dressed up as Diana Ross, it was like. she legitimately loved Diana Ross. But then, you know, it it she's All. Megyn did was ask the question, "When give me a a year or a period when. that became. absolutely unacceptable to the point. that your career and everything will be. taken away. that was the equivalent of like lynching. a bunch of people in Mississippi. trotted out you know, different people.

from the network and you know, Al Roker. and Craig Melvin came out and and they. did a show and they talked about how. horrible it was and uh. and so they sent Megan on her way. What. Megan did I think is what you did. And said absolutely not. You'll pay me. out in in full. My contract will be paid. And I think Megan got all 60 some. million dollars or whatever it was. to then go off and build what she's. built which is pretty awesome.

She's tough. She's a tough woman. She's. tough. And she got tougher going through that. Um and I think like a lot of people I've. known you either become a better person. or a worse person and she became I think. a better person. She's wonderful person. One of my favorite people actually. Um. So I think it was you know, a huge a. victory for her on every level. personally and professionally. didn't do anything wrong but ask a. question. I know. She never said. we should be allowed to do blackface. again. She didn't say that. Yeah. She said when was the All she did was.

raise the question. Now remember this is. also retribution. The man that was the. chairman of NBC News at the time who. fired her. uh she had recently put out. you know, a uh an email. calling him a liar. Who was that? staff, Andy Lack. She called Andy Lack a. liar because she you know, she said wait. a minute, we have someone who has. corroborated you know, Rose McGowan the. actress. We have a who corroborated that. uh you know, this in the Me Too movement. with.

in this whole Weinstein case. Um So just to refresh people who don't. recall. the allegation was and I think it was. true that NBC had the goods on Harvey. Weinstein that he was. behaving in an abusive way in a legit. abusive way toward women. Yeah, and that Farrow was doing his. report. Exactly. Yeah. And they sat on it? And Ronan alleges that they. they sat on it and said we you know you. you don't have enough. You don't have. anyone who's on camera and in name. And. Megan said, "Wait a minute. Yeah, Rose.

McGowan in camera." On camera, in name, she's we've got a name, she'll go. And they uh. I guess overlooked that and said or. refused to acknowledge it. And. so but the idea was that. you know. the guy the the guy who was president of. NBC News at the time is. is Noah Oppenheim and he's a script. writer. He's really a script writer. Hm. And he's so you know. does he want to write scripts for.

Harvey? Who knows? Uh but there's that relationship and. Harvey, you know, was never afraid to. pick up the phone. I've had Harvey. Weinstein call me. This is a great film. You should have this on your show on. Access Hollywood when I was the host. You know, hammering me to have a He was. a you know, an an animal. So he it seems very likely that he was. applying pressure to executives at NBC. including Noah Oppenheim. Yeah, it seems. likely. to you have to assume. Well, he'll. probably push He would apply pressure to. anyone. If he's if little Billy Bush.

over at Access Hollywood is getting. pressured, then you know the Today show. is. For sure. So Megan um pipes up and says. actually Andy Lack, her boss. "What you're saying is not quite right.". And they decide we got to kill this. woman. Yeah, so it's retribution. Clean and simple retribution. And I'm. sure Megan's lawyer, Brian Friedman, who's one of the best, you know, lawyers. in this game. turned and said, "Oh, no. You're not. going to just. Yeah. You she has done absolutely nothing.

wrong. Nice try. You can try and brand. her a racist, which she is not. Of co-. for asking a question, but you were. going to pay her out in full. And then she's going to go build her own. network. And by the way, I saw her last. week that Megan uh. surpassed NBC News in YouTube views on. her own. That's so great. So she was she was crowing about that, and I have to say I smiled. I'm in the. comment section if you look down, by the. way. Way to go, girl. I love it. So why, and I'd forgotten.

this part of it, Al Roker and Craig. Melvin are two hosts on NBC, both black, and. they torpedoed Megan? Look, play ball or not, right? I mean. they were asked to appear and talk about. the you know, the the severity of it and. and this is when you're in the machine. The severity of blackface and you know, appropriation and all these things. Look,

these types of situations are offered to. you, right? I mean, play ball with the. big machine or maybe you're out next, too. Uh I will say this, Craig Melvin is. a is a really good guy. I like him a. lot. He when I for the two months that I. was at the Today show, he had the office. next to mine. And we would call in. response, sing. I like the guy so much, I would you know, I would go. uh. it's a beautiful morning, and then he. would finish the lyric. And he was just. a charmingly lovely guy. Uh Roker on the other hand is a bit. vindictive. He's the uh he he he's.

he's not jovial. He's uh. No. Cuz you do think fat people are. jovial just by definition almost. Well, I mean, I always assume that. Do you? Well, uh. Like Santa Claus kind of. Yeah, you're supposed to be. Yeah. Maybe that makes you mad, but uh. uh although Al got himself in shape. however he did it, and uh and. Oh, did he I haven't seen I don't have a. TV. Well, he's uh he.

he. when I was at. the Today Show and I just got there, a. producer of mine called me and said, "Hey, Al Roker just liked a. tweet. from someone calling you a. white-splaining. racist.". I said, "What?". So, I looked and said, "Wait, I'm on the. air with him every day. You got to be. kidding me." So, I went to my boss, the head of NBC the head of the Today. Show, Noah Oppenheim,

and I said, "Hey, dude, I. I can't sit on the air with someone. who's going to be liking tweets that. call me names that are. insane. I haven't done anything of the. kind. I don't know what that even means. Like, what are you talking about?". So, he's like, "Oh my god, I'm so. sorry." And he had to go talk to, you. know, He'll talk I'll talk to him. But, you got to file him under the group. of people who did not want me there, right? So, I I there's a group that. didn't and and, you know, Matt Lauer. ever say, "I think you're a racist". No. face? NO, HEY, BUSHMAN. HOW ARE YOU? BUT,

liked this thing. and but I could feel like when I got to. the Today Show, there was definitely. uh. Wait, where'd you been Just get get. Access Hollywood for 15 years. Okay. In LA. Let me give you the brief of how I got. to the Today Show. Yeah. Um I built some leverage. I made I. got a relationship with uh the woman who. was the head of talent for uh ABC News. Good Morning America. Who's that? And her name is Barbara Fedida. She ended up uh offering me.

uh a job. Ben Sherwood was running uh. ABC News at the time. Uh. They offered me a job for Good Morning. America to leave Access Hollywood and. become like a national correspondent, but rotating in in the studio and. get your shot, basically. Getting back to even more, how'd you. wind up on Access Hollywood? I was uh I did something local. I did. some local um feature reports back at. WNBC in New York after doing radio for 6.

years. Started in radio in New Hampshire. of all places, right out of college. Then I went to DC, had my own morning. show there for 5 years. Uh like a you know, a a morning zoo type. of. uh morning show. And then I did this local. thing. in. uh on on television, just my own feature. reports, fun stuff that I would write. and edit and like that made me laugh. And people liked it. And so ultimately.

they came to me and said, "What's your. deal? We'd like to have you We we We're. looking for an East Coast correspondent. for our show Access Hollywood. You get. to do red carpets and meet all kinds of. movie stars.". Okay. Sounds good to me. So that I I I started doing that in the. end of 2001. And. you know, moved to the Today show in. 2016. I was there for 15 years. What was that like? I mean, it was really fun in the. beginning. It was just awesome. Uh you. know, back when Must See TV was on.

Thursday nights. So you know, like you. know, the ratings were big. There was car. service. It was It was super fun. I got. to do all these events. And I sort of. moved my way up and in 2004, they moved. me to Los Angeles to become the host of. it. And I'm out there. you know, until I said, "God, I Am I. going to die doing this? Like I got to. change it up.". So I put this like plan into effect to. make some inroads. But you could have stayed forever, right? Oh, I could have stayed forever. Yeah.

But I really wanted to get. to like a Regis Philbin style, you know, morning show. Yeah. Fun, warm. And that was when I made the. move to Good Morning America. Then NBC. said, "Wait a minute. Whoa.". Leverage is that thing. They know when. you have it or you don't. They knew I. had it. They knew I was moving and so. they said, "Okay, we'll give you the. 9:00 hour at the Today show. It's yours. Come on in.". When was that? And that was 2000. So, I made the move,

you know, my first day on the air at the. Today show was. uh. at at the Rio Olympics. Yeah. Yeah, in Brazil. In the summer of '16. In the summer of '16. and my last day was October 7th. So, sorry to laugh. I should I should Exactly 2 months. In the interest of honesty, we we went. to high school together and dated. sisters, so we've known each other for a. while. We should get into that in the future. don't need to get into that, but I'm. just saying I I. Your wife's younger sister my first. love.

Yes. And um so, I obviously I was watching. all this carefully as it unfolded. Um I. just I felt phony not saying that. Uh. So, you're living in LA, wife and three. kids, you're planning to move them back. to the East Coast. Um you go to Rio, big deal, it's the. Olympics. NBC has the Olympics. It's. This is how they're going to roll you. out. Yeah. Right. Heck of a roll out. Viewership's always. Exactly. up the whole thing. It's the craziest viewership of the.

cycle, yeah. Yeah. And you get to Rio, I'll never forget. this. Um. and you got basically under my like. right away the the knives came out for. you on staff. Right away. What happened? Um. Well, remember the Ryan Lochte story. The Ryan Lochte story broke. It was big. Ryan Lochte was held at gunpoint. Overnight, they went after after. swimming competitions, he and some other. swimmers went out, got drunk, partied, and then they were at a gas station in.

Rio, and they were held at gunpoint. Anyway, we wake up this morning oh the. morning after this, read it. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this story about Ryan. Lochte.". 2 hours later somehow, I run into Ryan. Lochte. And he's just bumbling down the street. with. with vodka breath and just like just. And he's but he's by himself and just. bumbling. And I've got an iPhone on me. and I'm like. This is a huge story. One of our major athletes held at. gunpoint in a foreign country at the.

Olympics. This is. This is massive. I only have is this. So I give to my. co-host and friend who was with me. I. said, "Roll this Lochte, come here." And. I pull him over and I said, "Roll the. camera." I have a minute and 42 seconds. still on here. It's all I got before the. Olympic Committee, US Olympic Committee. representative saw me across the street. talking to Ryan Lochte on an iPhone and. they buck over to stop me, but I get him. to tell me what happened. Amazing. And I'm like, "Wow." Because.

the second week of the Olympics is. always a little slow. You got swimming. and you got gymnastics and all the big. things in the first week and it's only. track and field. It's like pole vault. It's like you need something else. Like. a storyline would be great. All of the. sudden we have Olympic athletes at. gunpoint. This is incredible. And Lochte. tells me this story and I go on and. well, it becomes something else. I mean, first of all, Al Roker goes crazy on me. and he's like, "No, this American. apologist stuff begins." And the.

narrative is set. What I don't understand. So this seems. like a legit story. Ryan Lochte do this? He's a terrible a. terrible American with these, you know, this. this entitled American. uh bravado, you know, and his friends. cuz he was apparently he had torn down a. poster outside of the bathroom of this. gas station and and they and all these. terrible things that they were doing. No, they were held at gunpoint by. terrible people. And. I said, "Wait a minute. We don't know. that.".

This is live on the air. Yeah, live on the air. I said, "Wait a. minute. We don't know that. All we're. getting is that Ryan Lochte did all. these terrible things from the Minister. of Information. of the Rio police. Not known to be the least corrupt police. organization in the world. Hello. So, uh I said, "Hang on for a second. Why would we take that? It's like taking. the minister of, you know, you know, what what. the of of in Gaza? They're making the. minister of the getting his statistics. You don't someone who's.

obviously biased. So, I said, uh "Okay. Uh just calm down. We. don't know anything about what these. guys did." In the end, when everything. came out, Ryan Lochte didn't lie about. anything but one thing. He said he was. sitting at gunpoint, he was actually. kneeling at gunpoint. That's it. So, in. other words, everything he said was. totally true, and the entire US media. organization. led by NBC cuz we're on the ground. totally savaged this guy. Ryan Lochte. Savaged him how a horrible American.

entitled, you know, this this apologetic. attitude has come, you know, to uh to think he could do. anything he wants. of a violent crime. the victim. Yeah. He's, you know, Why do you think they did that? And by. the way, I want and he capitulated and. he like did this whole apology thing and. he did an interview with Matt Lauer. being held at gunpoint. like, "I'm sorry. I I guess I did pull. the thing down or the I don't know. what." He just apologized for what they. told him to apologize for. And in the.

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Did he Dance with the Stars, Tucker, like you? I don't know. did that, Billy. Yes, you did. That's And you. were terrible. I didn't do that. I think actually I had to I was staying. at your house during that. Tom DeLay was worse, but you were bad. Well, that that's something. Um but I. still don't understand. like this this was basically a decision. by this was from a viewer's perspective. Al Roker decided to change the story and. everyone followed him. Well, he was sipping caipirinhas with in.

this this this cocktail and he started. going after me like I'm defending, you. know, this this Ryan Lochte who behaved. like we need to be able to call out our. own people who behave terribly and poor. Ryan. I said. we don't you can pull it up on YouTube. We don't have the information. We don't. know. Just wait. Wait. What do you think. 2 weeks later when the breeze blows. through and everything's done, it comes. out absolutely Ryan Lochte told the. truth. What do you think Roker's so angry.

about? I mean, he's like a weather guy. on some morning show and he gets paid. all this money and everyone's you know, thinks he's driving the news. to be more. Everybody wants to be a. great interviewer, but you have to. prepare for those and you have to be. curious and that's it. Well, why but what what's he mad about? He's he seems to have succeeded far. beyond. I don't know. People in the people in in. network, you know, the the these big. organizations are territorial. Very. territorial. You can look back at the. stories of, you know, Ashley Banfield's. story of of of the you you.

the big wigs ahead of her keeping her. down, not wanting her to rise up. I was. always very close to Matt Lauer and Al. Roker until I got to the Today show. And then I had like targets on my back. from the moment I got there. them. There's two worlds. There's the the. yeah. And you know, remember my relationship with them. before was as the guy on Access. Hollywood who basically would promote. them. Right. Right. Our job was to promote everything. on NBC. Whether that's the Apprentice.

Uh-huh. or whether that's the Today show. I am. the chief rabble-rouser entertainment. guy. We cover everything, but NBC stuff. is first. Yes, you can cover, you know, 24 on Fox, but first cover Seinfeld cuz it's on. NBC. So, we promote our own things. Just. like a football announcer saying, "And. tonight, don't be a you know, make sure. you catch NCIS: LA tonight at something. on CBS." It's a lot of. promotion. Access Hollywood was basically a.

promotional vehicle. So, when I showed up as, "No, I'm now. one of you. who could potentially replace you one. day cuz you're. old. older than I am and that's just the way. it works. Then, you know, you could feel the. energy change. So, when I ultimately got fired from. NBC, it was uh. a lot to do with the the inner workings, the politics of of. being the new guy there.

Did you What I find so interesting about. it, everything you're saying makes sense. of of course I've seen it a lot, but. what's interesting is that nobody said. anything to your face, that it was all. feline passive aggression and treachery. Yeah. I've written a I have I have a. great chapter that I wrote and I wrote. it. years ago so I wouldn't forget any. details of what exactly happened with my. firing and it was just uh it was it was. it's unbelievable. I was playing.

catch-up the whole time. I found out that the Access Hollywood. bus tape. uh was in the NBC News building by Matt. Lauer. Matt Lauer came to me after I got. off the air at the Today show on a. Tuesday morning, and he said, "Hey, what. are you going to do about the tape?". I said, "What?". What do you mean, Matt? He said, "The. the tape, the bus tape, you and Trump. and all that." I said, "What are you. talking about?". I said, "What what do you What do you. mean? The this And I knew what the I. remembered the tape. It's 11 years old.

at the time. So back up. What Just start at the. beginning of this story. What what What was this tape? When was. it shot? What is it? It was shot in 2005. It was the end of Access Hollywood was. rebuilding a studio, so we had to find a. reason to get out of the studio, so we. did Access Across America. It started in. Miami, and the and it goes to whatever. to Atlanta, and then it goes to It works. its way back to. Los Angeles, giving the studio people.

enough to the workers enough time to. finish the new studio. So it's just a you know, and it was. sponsored and the whole thing, but the. last stop. How long was it? up Donald Trump at the Beverly Hills. Hotel in Los Angeles and drive him 20. minutes. to the studio, deliver him because he's. going to make an appearance on Days of. Our Lives, and he's going to be playing him He's. going to be playing a big. gaudy billionaire who gets hit on by.

you know, a a young starlet. That's his. character. Oh. He figured Donald should be able to pull. this off. So, the bus is pulling in, and the. cameraman, okay, wait, the cameraman get. off the bus. We got to go down to the. end so we can catch your arrival. So, the cameraman get off, and they run 300 yards ahead while the. bus is waiting stopped waiting to you. know for it's to film its approach. Cuz the the woman who is going to be. acting with is waiting and there's a.

there's a welcoming crew from Days of. Our Lives. They're all waiting and this. is the arrival shot. So the cameraman. gets off. He never stops recording. So we're still we're still sitting on. the bus with the microphones. And he gets off but they but it's the. red light is still on. So the audio is still recording as the. cameraman is you know runs away. Can't. imagine worse luck right? But who cares? It's just Donald Trump from The. Apprentice. And you're just doing this silly little. thing and. 2005 and we're doing this silly arrival.

shot. Well the Donald at that point. while we're waiting you know he gets. into his what he likes to talk about he. you know and. you don't you don't choose the agenda. with Donald Trump. He talks. at you. and. uh you know. he started by talking about um. my co-host Nancy O'Dell. And uh. and he you know she's so hot what. happened at that. I handled that beautifully and he keeps.

going. I'm sorry. I'M JUST TOO AMUSED. He just starts talking and talking and. talking and well everybody knows what. what he talked about and then. when we arrived to the shot except for. the end part the the most amazing thing. about the whole famous line that starts. with grab. Yeah. I just can't even say it cuz it's never. funny to me but. uh. the whole the amazing part about all. that is. I have no recollection. The first time I. ever heard that was 2016.

Of course. Days before they fired me cuz I always. remembered it for the personal. connection. Him talking about taking Nancy O'Dell. furniture shopping. And I thought oh my god that is so. funny. Wait why? Like he took Nancy O'Dell furniture. shopping cuz he was trying to hook up. with her and he's like "Here, let me. I'll buy you this coffee. I'll buy you. an armoire.". I and I was like, "This is so absurd. It's so up. Do you think it was. true?" But here's the amazing thing. Uh. oh, yeah, definitely true. I got 100%. Uh.

I got off the the bus, and oh, so the. cameras are there. We return to filming, and I'm like, "Hey, Donald, meet the. person you're acting with." And the. whole thing lines up and looks like I'm. feeding a wolf to this, you know, feeding this. lovely damsel to this wolf after what. has just been said, but no one knows. what's just been said, and I don't even. recall hearing the thing. Uh. Of course. hear that till 11 years later. So, the. whole it's just a giant show. Like. a work show. you work in LA in the middle of. Hollywood. Like you hear a lot of stuff.

every day. I mean. I mean, Julia Roberts has said worse to. me. I mean, not really, but like I mean. I mean, I know the world, and you were. at the center of the world. So, like. everyday people are saying things they. wouldn't want to be on camera. Right. But you also have this. We worked in this incredibly un weird. world where you have like 10, 15. minutes, in my case, forever. uh because it was a drive across town. with to really. talk to someone before you talk to. someone. Yes, of course. Right. You and I chit-chatted for 15.

minutes before we turned these. microphones on. Just like, "Hey, you. doing? What's going on? Like how was the. drive?". Yeah, but I've known you for a long. time. But that's But if I if you didn't. know me, you would have that time. Always. Always. to establish. a little rapport, and you meet them. where they are. Yeah. So, uh. With him you don't you you don't have a. choice. You know, it's never, "How's the. wife How's the wife and kids?" There's. never that. There's "You know what I did. the OTHER DAY?". "GREAT SHOT OVER THE BUNKER." YOU CAN. only hope it's a golf day.

Uh. But then listen, here's the The amazing. thing is after that happened like if you. want to look at like. I reported it. I didn't report it like, "He said terrible things on the bus. This is awful.". I reported it to my ran upstairs to my. boss and I go, "Oh my god. Every time. with Trump, it's something else. The. animal, you wouldn't believe what he. did. HE TRIED TO TAKE NANCY O'Dell. furniture shopping and it so he could. get laid." I was like, "THIS IS CRAZY.". And I told me, "Yeah, yeah, you're not. going to believe this." The next day,

that boss says, "Oh, no, I heard the. whole thing. The what you told me. yesterday. The guy was rolling.". I said, "He rolled it on the tape." I. said, "Well, you better do something with that tape.". And the reason I said that was for no. nothing that I did, nothing that I was. ashamed of. I don't care. The reason was in 2005, Donald Trump was. the biggest star on NBC on not news on. NBC making a hundred million dollars in. profit a year for the network. Had that.

tape leaked out. in 2005 when it happened, heads would have rolled including mine. because you just. completely tarnished our major cash cow. But can I just ask I mean. I've been around, you know, microphones and cameras my whole life. and my understanding to this day is you. don't tape people without their. knowledge. The In the state of. California, it's it. Well, this is what's amazing. So, in. 11 years later,

NBC News themselves leaks that tape to. the Washington Post. Of that there is no. doubt. They never launched an internal. invest You have a proprietary piece of. property that could affect a. presidential election and it gets out of. your building to someone else. You don't launch an investigation as to. how that got out. Like you've got to. look you've got to find out how that got. out. Well, it would have ended in 5. seconds. Uh. and it got shoved off to the Washington. Post. what I'm saying is it's unfair. to tape people when they don't know.

they're being taped. It's also illegal. In the state of. California, if both people don't know, it's litigious. That's why they gave it. to the Washington Post. You got the biggest story of the entire. the October surprise of all surprises. You've got it in your hands. and you leak it to someone else. Why. you're a giant news division. This is so. many clicks for you. This is so much. traffic. Why wouldn't you. Right. own that's Well, you can't because. Donald is litigious, first of all, and second of all,

there's enough reason to believe he he. he. there's no camera on the bus that he. didn't know he's being recorded. just so wrong. You shouldn't do that. I. mean, why is it different putting camera. in somebody's bedroom or the bathroom? Like what what it is wrong. So, that's what I thought all week long. before I got fired. Okay, so Okay, so but let's cuz actually. more interesting story than I realized. So, this happens 2005 now, almost 20 years. ago. Um you tell your boss he's seen the. tape. He has seen the off.

the bus the bus portion of the tape when. you talked to him? He heard it that one day and told me I. never heard it. He just said, "Oh, yeah, the audio was on." He told me, "I heard. the Nancy stuff." He never mentioned. anything about the the word grab never. came up. boss? Rob Silverstein. Ah, yes. Ah, yes. Um but here's the crazy thing. Executive producer of the show. Executive producer of Access Hollywood. But we'll get to how he's become the. executive producer of my new show once. again, how that's come full circle. What? Forgiveness, Tucker. It's an amazingly.

powerful thing. You're out of your mind. You're out of. your mind. You ought to try it. He's working for. me. Don't think I didn't kick his teeth. in. Don't think we didn't fall out for 2. years. Don't think I didn't take back. the Rolex I gave him as a gift when I. moved from the to from the from the. peewees to the big leagues. When I got. my big job at the Today show, I had a. party and I said, "Here you go, baby. I'm giving you a Rolex. Thanks for. helping me get there.". 2 months later, I said, "You son of a. if I ever see you, I'm going to. kill you and I'm going to to give me. that that Rolex back.".

And now he's your producer again. Now he's my producer again cuz you know. what? We did so many he just sometimes. you have a he's. I don't blame him because he was looking. to. he asked for permission. When he sent. the tape to NBC News, he was asking for. permission to use it. Which so okay, let's just back up here. because. I know the story but others don't. So. you um and Rob Silverstein was your. friend, too. Not just your EP. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So um. spend the night together sharing a bed.

in during the blackout in New York in. like 2012 or whatever it was. Wow. Because we had nowhere to go. Yeah, sweating next to this guy. So uh that's the last you hear of this. tape for 11 years until you get off the. air if I'm following this correctly and. Matt Lauer comes up to you and you're. not thinking about the tape, no one ever. mentions tape again, the tape is just. like the tape is in the. that Monday, Rob Silverstein called me. in New York and he just said, "Hey, just.

you know, NBC's asking about the. whatever the tape that with the Trump. and the whole thing. They're like they. may want to like look at the. They're asking for a transcript. I may. send it to them cuz Trump said some. crazy things. You don't worry about you. You You don't do anything on it. You. don't even say a thing.". I said, "Okay.". Uh whatever. It doesn't mean anything. Then the next day. he says, "I'll call you if anything. happens.". Well, I never got a call from him. The. next thing I hear about it is it's in. Lack's hands. Andy Lack, the chairman of NBC News, has.

it and Kim, whatever her name is, the. the legal counsel, the lawyer, she's on. it. And. Lauer says, "You You should probably go. see Andy Lack, you know, before this. thing. they have it.". And I was like, "Oh. Oh my god, okay." So I went left the. studio, went across up to Andy Lack's. office and then. Noah was there. And I said, "Hey, Noah, what's going on?" He said, "Yeah, so we got this tape." I said, "Listen, I've never I don't know what. tape." Like I I know what about the.

tape. I just but but I've never heard. it. Like I've. So, he played it for me. And I will never forget sitting in Noah. Oppenheim's office, the president, the. general manager of the Today show, as he. played the part and when it got to the. grab line, Noah laughed. I mean, he was. in the room. He laughed. Oh, and I guess. I got fired for laughing, but there he. is laughing cuz when you hear something. that absurd, what do you do? You laugh. Mostly laugh. It's like a nervous laugh. It's a. Yeah. You know,

I've never heard anyone say what he. said. I was like, "This can't be real, obviously, so I'm going to laugh.". Uh. but I don't recall it. So, it's just the. first time I ever heard it was was that. day and I went, "Oh, dear." And then I. watched the tape and I saw the arrival. and the greeting and I said, "Oh my god, the optics of this are just horrible.". I'm the first to admit, this looks. terrible. And. what happened in the ensuing days.

was, "Hey, what do you want to do about. this, Billy?". And I said, What do you want to do about it? "What do I That's crazy." This is from. Andy Lack, the chairman of NBC News, who's the only person in the world I'd. hit with a tire iron if he was sitting. right here. Yeah. And Noah, I wouldn't. I've forgiven. Noah. Andy, tire iron. Um. I wouldn't. Truth. Uh but in the ensuing days, it was all. "What do you want to do? Uh. we could do something with this, you. know, these things Remember this quote.

These things have a way of getting out.". It's what Noah said to me. And I'm like, "No, they don't. You can't Listen.". What if if I become the guy whose. preamble before interviews gets used, that celeb that whoever that public. figure is is never going to talk to me. I'm going to be the guy that no one. wants to talk to because don't talk to. Billy Bush before the interview, the. cameras are rolling cuz he's probably. secretly rolling. It's journalism 101. and no one came to my defense on it, of. course, cuz they're all It was such a.

hot time. Everybody was just you know, their their their heads were in the. sand. But, that whole week was what do you want to. do when I said, "You can't use this. It's illegal to do that to him, to. anyone." I wasn't defending Trump. I'm. defending my. reputation as a journalist and someone. who wants to interview other people in. the future. And just basic fairness. Yeah. Um and also, by the way, you were paid. to interview Trump and to do this set. piece with him, the scene with him.

That was your job. Like, you didn't It's. not like you and Trump were like in a. bar or something. It was like this. You. were You were working for the same. company. job for me then. Remember, this The. Apprentice was the biggest thing on TV. and Trump Every other celebrity had a. publicist that followed them around and. said, "You can't say this. You can't do. that. You can't use this." Um you know, they try to shape your message. Trump's publicist literally just carried. like a bag for him because Trump is. going to do what Trump's going to want. to do. He doesn't care. So, he was a.

soundbite machine. I was with him 3 days. a week and when I wasn't with him, I but my boss would say, "How do you get the next thing with. Trump? We got to Trump's. We need him for. We need him every day if we can have. him.". Cuz he's saying things like remember how. the horrible stuff he said about Rosie? But, every entertainment show couldn't wait. to run that as a headline. Of course. Right? No one does this. Um except Trump. He's gold for ratings. Well, he's unbelievable. Um.

in fact, he's helped. So, I was constantly tasked with How was. Get on his plane. Get into his. apartment. Go on a house tour with him. Uh one of the great things I did with. Donald Trump, still available online. Check it out. We went voting together in. 2004, Bush-Kerry. We went voting together and it was we. went to four different polling places. and he wasn't registered at any of them. It was hysterical and he kept getting. furious. Uh. So, I just did all these things and.

have fun? It was part of my job. Like I got. promoted. Ultimately became the host of. the show because of the amazing things I. did with Donald Trump. I dressed up in. in disguise and snuck into the season 2. auditions of of. No apprentice. And I auditioned as a mustache and I had. a cowboy hat on and called myself. Richard Broom and I made my way over to. a table and Donald was sitting at the. table and I sat down with eight other. strangers. And as he asked questions of everybody. to see if they'd be a part of the cast.

And he looks at me and he goes, "You're. a weird-looking fellow.". He said, "Take off YOUR HAT." I TOOK it. off and he goes, "If I don't know that's. Billy Bush, I don't know." We had a huge. laugh. I mean, Let me tell you something. Donald Trump. was the greatest reality television host. ever. Ever. Ever. He was. especially for our show and for that. That show began as something else and it. turned out, you know what? Why don't we. instead of doing 15 minutes of the. boardroom at the end, let's do 15.

minutes of stupid lemonade sales and. then 55 minutes or 45 minutes of the. boardroom. at the end cuz that's what people really. want to see. Cuz the drama. The drama. Trump going, "Look, Brandy, I. can't believe it. You look like Can you. believe what Sarah said about you? It's. terrible. She shouldn't say that about. you. Sarah, you look like a nice person. Why would you do that to Brandy?" And. he'd just pit these fights, right? And. and people loved it. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. It was 5 years ago this month that. people started to drop dead in the.

central Chinese city of Wuhan. 5 years. since the beginning of COVID. Tens of. millions dead. Societies reordered. completely. Economies destroyed. And yet. for some reason we still don't know. answers to the most basic questions. Where did this virus come from? How did. it get here? Why did the government tell. us to do things they knew wouldn't work? None of those questions have been. adequately answered, and one man knows. those answers. His name is Dr. Tony. Fauci. Until now, nobody has really. pressed, and now a documentary filmmaker.

called Jenner Furst is out with a new. film explaining exactly what happened. The film is called Thank You, Dr. Fauci. Jenner Furst spent years trying to get. answers, and in that time, as he awaited. Dr. Fauci's response, he went through. tens of thousands of pages of documents. and pieced together the story, which is. shocking. We are proud to host that. documentary here on TCN from December. 20th to January 19th. You will see it. exclusively here on TCN. Again, it's. called Thank You, Dr. Fauci, and it's.

worth it. How was he regarded at NBC? Oh, he was. This is a story that'll blow your mind. My brother. is a great healthcare executive built a. company called Athena Health. The. chairman of his board at one point. became. uh Jeff Immelt, who became the chairman of my brother's. board. My brother reported to him from.

GE as the CEO. Yeah. And from GE, and. GE, you know, owned. NBC long before when when The Apprentice. was just coming on. And Donald wanted his contract. renegotiated, and he demand, forget Jeff. Zucker and the NBC people, I want Immelt. to do this with me. I want the CEO of GE. to do my second year deal. And Immelt. told my brother, he's like, you know, if there were cameras at that lunch or a. little hidden microphone at that lunch,

I guess I would have been fired because. you just go with what Trump wants to go. with. Yeah. And they were similar. Uh. Yeah, I mean, you know what I mean? Cuz. here's one thing about Trump. He is. his loyalty isn't long. If you like if I. were to say to him, "Hey, how dare you. talk like that like that? I'm not going. to be on this bus. You shouldn't say. such terrible things. I will I'm. leaving." And I took a moral stand and. walked out or whatever I did. Get rid of Billy Bush. We don't like. him. We're doing Entertainment Tonight. only now. That's it. And then you're.

done. So literally my job hired to was to make. sure we had him as often as possible and. get great sound bites and kick ass. ever hear any NBC executives complain. about him? Or his politics? No, but I do know that look, he was. placated as every big star of every big. show in the business is all the way up. to the, you know, ivory tower. 100% from Jeff Zucker to Jeff Immelt. The whole you know, here's you here's a. beautiful irony. Jeff Zucker.

who I like um. was running the show at NBC. Entertainment. He's the one who put he. he built. this if Trump is Frankenstein, he built. him in the laboratory. And they built. this apprentice and they made him an you. know, the the wheeling and dealing. machine on his helicopter, this. incredible image. Can you imagine a. better image on network television. crafted for you than that one? And Zucker then became. years later.

the head of the resistance. The guy that. built him then became the head of the. resistance. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. In a matter of 10 years. Like this. recording of this bus tape that was a a. I would have been fired it had leaked. out then for hurting the star. 11 years. later and a lawsuit over Miss Universe. and whatever else, NBC feels completely. differently about Donald Trump and now. it's get him at all costs. Get him out of this presidential race at. all costs. I don't care who we have to.

kill or shoot in the head on the way, including. Billy Bush, no problem. Get rid of him. So, that's. It's an incredible. It's an inc-. There was so much going on during that. period that it it kind you know, of. course the the tape and that one phrase. still kind of hangs in the air, but the. but the actual story. never really got called told. There was. too much chaos going. never been told. It was like the opening salvos of a war. and like an atrocity was left. unexamined. No, and I look, I was a sitting duck,

right? It was a hot time. People were. feeling. really strongly, you know, as they as. they still are. Trump is the. country music, love him or hate him, right? I mean. So, what was that? Did you Okay, so you. move over and that just to be I just. want to say this for the third time. That tape after you spoke to. uh Rob about it to you RP about it, the. next day was never mentioned again un-. for 11 years. Uh no, never mentioned again. It was No,

intermittently over the years be like, "God, that reminds me the Remember the. time that Trump told me about the But it. was always about Nancy O'Dell." Maybe. every 3 years or something. Right, right. Maybe five times total between 2005 and. 2016. The Nancy O'Dell part was lost to. history. cuz Trump said something that reminded. me of. Right. the whole thing. Was Trump political by the way? Was he. regarded as political when he was the. host of The Apprentice? No. God, no. No. Not at all. The idea that this.

If you want to talk about just bad luck. in general, the idea that Donald Trump. in 2005 would one day run for president, and he's talked about it forever, but he. would do it to just. Yeah. mix things up. Um. He called me right before he announced. and said, "I'm going to announce." And I. laughed. Yeah, cuz I'd known him all. these years and I I thought of Trump. as a person who was not serious about. politics, who was going to use it to. sell a book or a promote a show or. whatever. And I the image after The. Apprentice had run its course. It was.

very successful. literally laughed at him when he called. me. I was in the car, I'll never forget. it. Yeah. And he was totally calm and he said, "Yep, I see what you're saying, but I. think this time I'm going to surprise. you.". And he he sounded totally different. But. but I agree with you, you knew him much. better than I did. came down the escalator, I said, "Oh my. god, this is going to be unbelievable. This is going to He's going to He's. having so much fun.". Exactly. This is a joke. He's having fun, and all. of a sudden everything he said. that people didn't like, he got more. popular and he's like, "What?".

I don't think he he he was surprised. more than anyone. Like, "Wait a minute. They like me more? Okay.". And he just steamrollered everybody. So do Wow, it's also it's also amazing. in retrospect, but did he in all the. time you spent. spent with him, did he ever say anything you thought was. political at all? No. Yeah, interesting. Never. No, he was it was it was. not not a chance. We went voting in 2000.

uh four, the beginning of The Apprentice, and uh. he I remember him laughing uh. I said uh "Have you endorsed one of the. I mean, have you given money to one of. the candidates? Are you behind one of. them?" He goes, "I am.". I said, "To which one?" He goes, "I. can't tell you." I said, "Is there a. chance that it's both of them?" And he. said, "There is." Like, he had given. money to both guys. "You're my guy, here's a check. You're my guy, here's a. check." Remember, Trump was open about.

that back in the day. He was like, "Look, I needed to build I wanted my. businesses to thrive. So I played nice. with everybody on both sides." Remember. his wedding in 2005 with Melania, there's Bill and Hillary Clinton, and. you know, everyone's there kissing the. ring. Amazing. Yeah. Um okay, so you go up to Andy Lack's. office, Noah Oppenheim sitting there, you screen the tape. and they say to you Billy what do you. want to do about this? Yeah, what do you want to do about this? Like do you want to get out in front. your problem. I mean I I I I could have done what the.

little minion. who wants to save his butt. and I might have if I had been if I. wasn't so. stupid or I didn't get what they were. saying. In other words they're saying do. you want to get out in front of it? What. if I had taken that tape. and the most disingenuous little save my. own ass move I get on the air and I say. okay look. yeah I know this was recorded you know. before the interview and it was off. camera it's an off mic thing and the. whole thing and you know.

don't read into how bad that is as a. journalist to be doing this but. because this is such a serious election. and in the interest of all information. and and and candor I want to present. this and I want you the American people. to hear this because you're about to. vote. on the president of the United States. you should know this and so it's just. these are extenuating circumstances and. here I go and I don't look good on this. tape because I have to greet this do. this greeting at the end and it looks. bad and.

you know but I really. it's important to me to do this and then. I put it out there for people. I might. have been the wow Billy Bush is. courageous by the media establishment. What a courageous guy he had to do that. we'll give him a pass because look he. brought forward this beautiful thing. that will take out the enemy. Trump. Cuz he's screwing Trump and in the end. this is the very beginning of Trump. Derangement Syndrome. no matter what screwing Trump is. paramount above everything else. Yes. So I would have gotten the pass.

from the media and and and maybe still. you know take a little vacation but be. back still at the Today show making lots. and lots of money for you know. but I said no. No it's wrong. I can't. have people look at me that I've got to. be. I'm not the guy that's doing that to. anyone. Yeah. I know the stakes and I know what you. how you want this election to turn out. I know how you want it to turn out, but. I can't do that. I wouldn't do it to. anyone. And.

they said, "Okay, we understand.". And then they tried to get Access. Hollywood. Okay, why don't you guys do a. little version of this and put it on? And then I made a huge mistake and I. said to my executive producer, I said, "Trump didn't know that this was on. Any. other guest would not I have no. protectionism of Trump. I don't you. know, I'm whatever. It's just wrong and they're setting you. up. You're going to become the fall guy. Trump's going to sue NBC for putting. this thing out there cuz he didn't know.

he was being recorded and you're the. fall guy, you dummy. And they're going. to fire you." And he went, "Oh my god, you're right." So, he called back Andy. Lack and he said, "No, I'm not putting it on Access Hollywood. tonight." That was a Friday night. No, Thursday night. Remember, that Sunday, the 9th, was the. second presidential debate with Hillary. Clinton. They needed this out there. before the debate so Anderson Cooper's. first question could be. the about this sex about sexual assault.

and Donald Trump perpetrating it. So, wait hold on. I little background. context. Um you said this was the beginning of. Trump Derangement Syndrome. Did you. sense that at NBC? Oh god, they. absolutely. I mean you anything. Remember this, over at ABC News, they. did at the same time when Trump became. president, they launched a 70 they built. a 75 person investigative unit. I know. the guy who was head of it. Dedicated to anything negative on Trump.

Find stuff on him and get him out. This. is not journalism. This is not news. It. is activism. When you're when you're when you're. calling journalism, it's total activism. What do you think that What do you think. that was? All the major networks. That's why by. the way when when NBC does the shitty. thing that they did, ABC and CBS don't. call it out. They don't say. Of course. You know, hey. But you're competing with each other. I. would want to pound my competitor. You're like, "Look what you did. That. was dirty." Because all of them would.

have done it, too, probably. You know. what I mean? They all shared that. mission. I mean. You know, even even at the. you know, channel I worked at, which was. the one conservative channel, you know, a lot of people hated Trump. Really, really hated Trump. But you were in such. an interesting spot because you knew him. so well for so many years in a totally. different. like hosted eight pageants for him all. over the world. I went with the Donald. to Ecuador, to Bangkok, to Panama.

As we drove take back the canal. Uh. I was with him all the time. I flew on. his plane and hosted the Paley Center. panel on this incredible phenomenon, The. Apprentice. And I, you know, Donald. said, "You can fly with me." And if we. flew on the plane, I'd never seen Donald. without a tie on. It was this night, rolled up sleeves, button sh- you know, the. the white shirt unbuttoned, no tie. It. was incredible. Never have I seen that. Uh. I didn't know what to make of it. It was. like, "He's so relaxed. This is weird.". Uh.

but he hung out and we told stories. We. just I had spent more time with him. I. still think I've spent more time with. him on camera than anyone. I bet that's right. Oh, for sure. And I I I've spent a lot of time with. Trump and I I'll just I'll just say it. I've enjoyed pretty much all of it. He's wildly entertaining. Wildly. Wildly entertaining and I have to tell. you one of the funniest people I have. ever. Yes. I the laughter that I. I splitting my sides laughing at the. things he would say. And some of it's.

cuz it's he's almost like a caricature. You know, with the third person speak. and all that. It's just It's wildly. funny. So you I don't really take much. of it seriously. You know, when he said. what he said at the end of the tape. there that. I never for 1 second thought that that. was a serious thing. I mean, who would say that then? And I just but. you just laugh. Yeah, the funniest I agree, the. funniest, the funniest. Um I once took. someone I went to dinner with them and I.

brought someone who was. you know, politically on his side, I. think, but was like, really Donald. Trump? And at the end of the meal this. person got in the car with the person. goes, that's the greatest dinner I've ever. had. Yeah, I've never had a dinner like. that in my life. Anyway, um but so given the fact I think. you actually have spent way more time on. camera than anyone in the world with. Donald Trump. So, it just puts you. But again, as you've said, not in any. kind of political context. So, now. you're working on the Today show,

biggest biggest news show in the. country, and Donald. They put out an APB to all properties. Find us something that show cuz a woman. who was a Miss Universe contestant, this. is early end of September, had come. forward and said, he was disparaging. towards me. And Trump said, I've never been. disparaging towards a woman in my life. I've never done anything like that. So, then NBC said, okay, find something. of Look at all your tapes, everybody,

every division of anything he might have. said disparaging about a woman so we can. prove him wrong, huh? We got you. And then Rob Silverstein, my executive. producer at was like, oh, wait a minute. That tape that's collecting dust in my. thing, he said something about Nancy. O'Dell that was disparaging. Remember, this has always been about. Nancy O'Dell. And so, he takes the tape out and he's like, then he calls NBC to say, hey, I may have something. I could use it. I'm not sure. I need your legal approval.

because. although a very small division, it's a. division of NBC News, Access Hollywood. So, I need legal permission here. I. don't want to go out there cuz I don't. think he knows he's being recorded. I. need a blessing. And then they sent it and from there. they said, "Okay, we'll take it from. here. Thank you so much.". was? Why I mean it's just so especially. strange for NBC which as you've said a. couple of times was the recipient of. like all this profit, you know, $100. million. a year from this show. So, like they. loved Trump. And but they pivot so fast.

to hating Trump obsessively. Why? Well, 11 years a lot can happen like the. bitter negotiations over the Miss. Universe pageant and the fallout and. lawsuits and counter-suits and you know, the he. after he left The Apprentice, they. replaced him at one point with uh. you know, they tried to replace him with. Arnold Schwarzenegger and and he. denigrated them. You know, like he. Schwarzenegger's terrible. Those two. hated each other. They fought.

You know, Trump's the street fighter. He's the. He's the king of the concrete jungle. Yeah. You know, and so he's like uh once the. apprentice had died, he blamed them for. it and you know, he fights he fights. dirty and they. Yeah. you know, and I think they had you know, that big. lawsuit over over Miss Universe. kind of bummed them out and they they. ended up hating each other. It happens. Oh, yeah, it does. And some of you know, uh. and so a falling out. And then when he. decides to run later, now it's like get.

him at all costs. And. they want. Hillary. They just. Yeah, they wanted Hillary, but you. didn't see that the but with such. vitriol for Trump. Yeah, it was crazy and it wasn't just. NBC, it was everybody. was everybody. Like what what but looking back at years. later, any idea why? It's not like Trump. is super right-wing or anything. Well, back in the day, look, I'm going. to confess myself. I said, "Listen, I. spent a lot of time with Trump. He'd be. a terrible president. This is a crazy. idea." This is and I said that on the.

air in 2015. on my live daytime show. I said that. as a man who has spent probably the most. amount of time, this is a terrible idea. Now, to be clear, you know, I'm the. nephew of George H.W. Bush, you know, this is. he was a real. steward and by the book sort of guy. and felt you know, he was a character. first, all these things. Trump was something we'd never seen. before. also he was he was since you brought it.

up, he was running against your cousin. And he's running against Jeb. Low energy. Jeb. Yeah. Is what he called him. So, this puts you in like the weirdest. position of anybody in the media. Yeah. Yeah, when he started saying the low. energy thing, I was like, "Oh, man, really, Donald? Jesus. You're so brutal, but God, that works, doesn't it?". Uh. what people misjudged was. they were sick of. everything that. the way things had been done and that he. knew that and that's why Trump is smart.

just cuz he. he knows where people are. And he met them there. So, you know, uh genius in that regard. Amazing amazing story and you're I. hadn't really this whole time having the. conversation and I sort of forgot that. It's so much There's so many crazy. unbelievable details, right? But at the. end of the day, I think it's been handled. I think it's. like they have had.

a moment with their conscience. and realized you can't do this. This is. a part of the recording nobody knew was. being recorded. You can't do that to. someone. You can't do it to me as a. journalist. to, you know, out somebody like that and. you can't do it to a someone like Donald. who's going to sue you. So, it's dead. and they they okay. And as soon as Access Hollywood said. they're not doing it either, we're not. touching this. NBC didn't want to touch. it. They knew that Trump would sue them. They slid it to the Washington Post.

do that? I'm on a plane. I'm on a plane. that Friday. Two days before the debate, I'm going home to Los Angeles to see my. family. And right before the wheels go up, I. look at my phone one last time and bang, there's the story in the Washington Post. and I go, "Oh my god." And the next week. is the most chaotic week. Did you have cell service on the plane? I got Wi-Fi 15 minutes later and I had a. million messages from Noah, "You're. going to be fine. You're okay. Don't.

worry. We'll take care of you." Head of. communications at NBC, "Don't worry. You. didn't do anything. You did nothing. We've got you. Don't worry. We've got. you. Security will be waiting for you at. LAX. We have a car. Security guy will. take you to the car. Car will take you. home. Don't worry. We've got you. We've. got you." Next day, "We've got you. We've got you.". Did your. Did your. text you on the plane? Uh my wife texted. me and on the and and we had a dinner at. a friend's house that night and they're. like, "Hey, are we still on?" And I'm. like, "Yeah, of course. What do you mean. are we on?" Like, I said, "It's sort of big, I think. I.

mean, it's kind of huge. It's kind of. everywhere." And I'm like, "No, no, they. got me. We're good. They got me." Cuz I. didn't do anything. They got me. We. land. TMZ, paparazzi, I get home. They're wait They're wait. The next day I buy $5,000 worth of new. suits cuz as much as they give you pay. you on the Today show, they don't buy. you clothing. And I'm like, "I got to. get some new suits. I mean, I got a. fancy new job. I'm an important little. guy. This is great." I buy a bunch of. suits. I have someone tailoring them in. my living room. I'm doing all this.

The next day, Sunday, I go out and. there's a good car and driver in the. driveway. And as I'm about to open the door with. my bags, the driver. says, uh "Hey, they just canceled the. car." I said, "What? No, it's got to be. a mistake. What are you talking about?". No, they canceled the car. And I'm oh god, I called my lawyer and. said, "What's going on?" He says, "Yeah, they want to suspend you tomorrow." I. said, "I. I need to be able to talk tomorrow. I. need to be able to say something. Can't. suspend me." He's like, "They're. suspending you tomorrow.". And then from there that it just the.

unfolded and. I think I did call you on Saturday and. said they're going to try and screw you. I think you did. Yeah. As a man who's knows what it looks like. when it's coming. I SAID I COULDN'T RESIST. I said. Hey buddy, you're you're. Yeah, I did I did say I said they're. going to try and you. And you're. like, "No, no, no, I've been here a. while. I've worked for this company.". they love me. This is the network that. RAISED ME. NO, NO, NO. THEY COULDN'T do. that to me. I didn't do anything. I'm. fine. advice I'll never forget it was cuz I. still think it's good advice. March into.

Andy Lack's office and say, um, "Listen. can I call you a Uh, you. may have some thought about destroying. me, um, and I father of children so you. can't do that.". see it. But, if you do that, I will go. on Good Morning America on Monday and. we're going to talk about your marital. infidelity. Yeah. Just just so you know. No, no, no, no, because like you're not allowed to. destroy me. So, like how about don't do. that? All your sexual harassment claims from. everywhere you've ever been. Right? You who would later go on to.

fire, uh, you know, Matt Lauer and, uh, claim you knew nothing. Exactly. Please. But, so these are. way, Andy's landed at PBS apparently. He's producing a new series at PBS. Fire him. Not all travelers stay prepared for the. unexpected. Well, when you're flying. across the country or driving for hours. crammed into crowded spaces, and yet. most people don't think what they do if. they got sick or someone they love got. sick. Have you thought about that? Well, now it's the holidays. It's the busiest. travel time of the year and it's also.

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television executives are that rare. group and you don't run into them very. often who don't respond to anything but. threats. Whereas like, you know, normal person, your wife, your children, your friends, anybody off the street, the lady at. Dunkin Donuts, like they can all be. reasoned with and they're moved by love. and you know, a cogent argument. TV. executives, it's like if you don't have. a gun in your hand, well, you just said. you got the job because GMA was thinking. of firing you. Yeah, that's leverage. That's it. That's the only thing that. moves. You know, the right thing will. never be done.

Exactly. WAIT, SOMEONE ELSE WANTS THEM? ALL RIGHT, NOW WE want them. Move it. over to here. That but that's that's life. That you. know, the the leverage, I get it. Um. God, it's not my life. Uh that's not the. world that I live in outside of. It's not the world I'm leaving, you know, I'm I wish I had the wherewithal. then to know what was happening. It was. so hot and so crazy and I had to hire a. litigator and all these things and. we ended up doing a deal with them to. let me go and it was not my full.

contract and it was and then the next. day there's reports that Billy Bush got. all this money. It's not even half of. what they reported. It's like. it was a it was a I had bought. a place in New York that I was super. excited for. I remember. a bath I took a bath on that. I mean, you want a 360 show and. it happened like. that. In an instant. You're at the highest. you've ever been in your career. You.

can't believe it. You got drivers. wherever you're going. You're linked to. your I'm maybe drinking a little bit of. that Kool-Aid thinking I'm pretty cool. And maybe I And here's the positive. part. Maybe God said. "You're not ready for life yet. Amazingly, you're 44 years old and you. don't know what a struggle looks like. You have had a pretty sheltered life.". I'm looking trying to think of it on a. bigger picture. And I you need. everyone in this life. No one goes unscathed. Everyone has to. get their doors blown off in some way.

Hopefully, it's not cancer with a child. or something something terrible, but. it's going to be something. horrible that's going to shake you to. the core and you got to figure it out. This was mine. It is I'm not. extraordinary that I've had to deal with. getting my doors blown off. I'm only. extraordinary in the details of it. that the reality guy from 2005 is now. destroying 16 other people to become the. Republican candidate for president. That's all. very extraordinary.

But. I think what happened then was. 3 years of. disaster and then getting back to work. and slowly putting one foot after the. other. and leading to, you know, this moment. now where I'm. It's the whole thing is just absolutely. incredible. Um. I watched with amazement and real. sadness and. the way, you you were the one of the. very very very few people that, you. know, just didn't give a and called. it for what it was. You were you. Well, I was totally outraged by it and.

the lying behind it and we talked to the. staff here, but if they were like, you. know, what you said about Megyn Kelly, if. they're like, okay, you know, it's not. the returns aren't what we thought they. were going to be, we're going to let you. go. That's a totally reasonable thing to. do. If they had said, Billy, we're just too. embarrassed and like let's work out some. way or whatever. I don't but they were. like morally high-handed with you like. you committed some kind of crime and I. was outraged by that. You do wrong. I never understood it. And then this and then the small, you. know, then I was unhireable.

I was just unhireable. I didn't work for. 3 years. Can I know? I know. 3 years is a long time. I didn't work. Couldn't get hired. And I and to my. fault, what I should have done is launch. the Tucker Carlson Network right then. and there. The technology wasn't ready for it. It wasn't I wasn't ready. I was like, no, damn it. This big family that had me in it is. going to have me back because it isn't. right and I'm going to stick around. until they do and finally I made it. back. You know,

an extra at Warner Brothers hired me. I've done it for 5 years and I'll. forever be grateful to the woman who. lives very close to you down here since. she's retired. Lisa G who hired me and and I got, you. know, going again. Super, can you without, you know, getting too painful but just sort of. linger on what those those days you you. walk outside and the driver tells you. that the car has been. canceled. So you call your lawyer. Did. you call Noah Oppenheim and he laughed?

Yeah, I called Noah and I mean and you. know, the. at that point everything goes to the. lawyers. You their phones no longer. answer. So they had they're told by legal you. cannot talk to him at all and so. But you never had another call? 6 months later I talked to. Noah Oppenheim. But you never talked to him there in the. middle of it. He said, Noah, there's beautiful thing. Noah said to me, if you. if you never speak to me again, if you. hate my guts for the rest of your life, I understand. I'm so sorry. I I I I It.

wasn't supposed to happen like this. I. I'm so sorry. Well, I called Noah because I know Noah, and I was I probably shouldn't say this, but I did. And I called him. He called. me back. Um I was in the car with one of. my children coming back from a college. tour. I'll never forget it. And she was. driving. She was just learning to drive. cuz she got to boarding school, she. didn't know how to drive. Anyway, we're. in the car. He calls me back on speaker. And I She reminded me this actually last. night when we were saying you were. coming. Um and I lost completely lost. control on him. Like completely lost. control. Scared my daughter. Cuz I was.

just so I mean, I had nothing to do with. it, but I just I was just so mad. Yeah. That someone could do. Well, I felt it. Like it's just so. unfair. And then you don't call the man. directly and it's all through the. lawyers. Legal won't let me. It's like, what? Yeah. You just suspend all humanity and. decency because you work for some stupid. company that's going to be gone in 10. years. There won't be an NBC. Like all. of this is passing away. All of this is. fake. And what matters is treating other. people with decency. And they just. forget that. to that at the Today show. If I were. still the host of Access Hollywood and.

all of that had happened, and I never. spent 2 months at the Today show. I. hadn't made that very recent move. I I. don't think they would have fired me at. at Access. I think I I I kind of I was. the Matt Lauer of the place. It's a. smaller place, but I'd been there so. long. People looked up to me. I kind of. had influence. I could They wouldn't. have done it. They needed me. But remember, I'd gotten to the Today. show where half the place didn't want me. there in the first place. So it was definitely inside politics. It. was high school. And now, I mean, things is so long ago.

and things have changed so much. Oh. That I kind of feel sorry for Matt. Lauer, who at the time I was outraged. And I laid into him, by the way. I got. to speak to Matt Lauer 9 months. afterwards. And he and I said, you know. Had he fallen yet? He had not fallen yet. He But he called. me with some about I can't. believe that Trump is president and you. lost your job, which is the number one. thing I hear from everyone. But I I. like, not from you, And I laid into him. And and I laid it, "Please don't try. that on me. I'm not dumb. I mean, you. you're the leader I said you're the. leader of that place. You could have.

fought for me and you didn't and I know. why you didn't." Cuz you didn't want me. and my full head of hair in that. building and. I get it. I laid it, he's like, "No, no, no, I fought for you privately." I'm. like, "No, you didn't, dude. I know you. didn't and your minions didn't and shut. up and save it." And then when he got. fired, I was like, "Hey, are you okay? Here's some books. Try these three. books.". I did the same. I did I also texted him. when he got fired. I never liked him, but I always I always text people who. when they get fired just because I feel.

like we should do that. We should. You don't want to. I texted Jeff Zucker when he got fired. You did? Yes, and you know the funny thing is. um and I really disliked Jeff Zucker. intensely. I I worked for him and I. intensely disliked him. way you say intensely. I did and he got fired and I was in bed, it was in the morning and someone said, "Zucker's got fired." And I texted him. immediately. Just two-liner, you know, cuz been there. and uh never heard back from him. This. was 4 years ago probably three or four. years ago and I was at a lunch in Abu.

Dhabi last week and guess who sat next. to me? Jeff Zucker. Wait, he didn't choose to sit next. No, he just wound up I. Wait, his placard, his name plate was. next to you, they. Yes, I sit down at lunch. and. In an official capacity, this is some. type of event. a Yeah, I was just traveling and. know he was sitting next to. Oh, I wind up sitting at lunch and I'm. like, "There's Jeff Zucker.". And the first thing he says to me is. "Thanks for your text.". Yes. It's the first thing he said. People remember these things.

remember that. Always reach out. Someone's down, always. reach out. That is Can you say that again cuz. that's the truest thing in life? Whether it like someone gets diagnosed. with a disease or something, you're. like, "Oh my god, I don't know what to. do." Maybe you'll do nothing. Or they get fired or something like. that, always reach out. Always. That is. And I tell you that from a guy I had. when I got canned, I had beautiful. letters. Julie Bowen reached out. Uh, you know, go to high school with. She was we went to high school with her. God, did I have a crush on her?

Jeez. Uh, but Suzanne Somers and and Cindy. Crawford and. uh, crazy Dennis Quaid and. it goes on, but there's many many I've a. lots and lots of letters. you remember it all though, anyway. Oh, yeah. Kate Walsh, the actress and. uh, oh, you're you're we know who you are. You're the greatest guy. I'm so sorry. I was like, oh. Always reach out. Always reach out. texted Matt Lauer when he, boy, talk. about a fall, too. I mean, that was Matt.

Lauer had one of the nicest, most. impressive wives ever. Yeah, Annette. Annette, amazing person. Yeah, very sweet. Um, very smart. But, uh, what did he respond when you texted him? Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen him since? afterwards, we, you know, I I chatted. with him once and I haven't talked to. him in years, but um, Yeah. You know, I think one thing there was. this funny thing that happened in in. Rio, like when we got back from Rio in. the Olympics, all these people were. writing these story, like In Touch. Weekly, gossip magazines were writing.

Billy Bush wants Matt Lauer's job and. he's gunning for it and. this is just stuff that. in no way is true because I'm trying to. build a. 9:00 Regis style show. We're going to do. it at the top of the rock, the top of. the building with like a jazz quartet, like a morning live audience. It was. going to We had all these wonderful. plans. It was going to be the most. amazing show. Uh, so we were like, I I don't I don't. want your job. But, he read all these. things and he thought that I was.

planting them through my quote unquote. team and whoever would be on my. I'm just a kid that came from Access. Hollywood. So, Oh, you didn't have a team? Oh, my team. So, he called me to his. office. This is while I was like this is. after my first month. I'm still there. and he's like, "Hey, I need to talk to. you. These, you know, reports that have. come out like you want my job and all. this stuff and all these things that. started in Rio and all this. I need you to I need you to know that. they have to stop and they got to stop. now. Whoa. And I went.

"Oh my god, are you are you a crazy. person? Have you been in this business. and you're so. psychotic and it's gotten you to the. point where you think. I'm planting stories to get rid of you. so I can have the number one chair? Oh my god, like do people do that? Like. I'm just I just want you to like me, dude. I just want you to take me out to. lunch and say, 'Welcome.'". Yeah. Like I have to every new person that. arrives to a show that that I'm the. anchor of or those stuff. Of course,

welcome. Did Roker ever confront you directly? Confront me about anything? I mean, he's like attacking. me on air about the Ryan Lochte thing. and after that it kind of. it it brushed away and you know, he. Roker's it was very difficult to deal. with in that you just have to. he he kid gloves, you know what I mean? Yeah. You walk on. Did you ever talk to him again? He left me several voicemails. I still.

have them, by the way. Really? An Al Roker voicemail. "Hey, Bushman, I'm coming to town. Going to just, you. know, feeling so good that you're fired. I. mean, not really, but like I'm so glad. you're not here so now I can like you. again. I just can't like you here. It's too close to my stuff.". I was looked at as a predator by the. men. I will say this, the women. Yeah. on the show. terrific. delightful. Really? We had the best time. Hoda Kotb would.

put her arm around me and say, "Bushman, you and I are the future.". And it turns out Bush and Kotb are the. future, just not this Bush. And so, yeah, I mean the the women were. great. forgot. to 9:00. Wait, they hired another I totally. forgot that. That's them. They dumped them. But. Wow, I'm I I have trouble connecting. dots sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But look, here's what happens. This all leads.

This leads to. Hilarious. Yeah, the irony. till right now. I never thought of that. till right now. Thank you. Neither have I. What's it like in I mean. So, do you ever talk to her about it? Oh, you're you're a cousin. Yeah, Jenna. Uh no, not Yes, we talked. once at my bar at Barbara Bush's funeral. in Houston. about it. But I remember when I was. coming in. um or making my moves and things were.

going really well for me and I was. making that move to the Today show. She. was like, "How do I like they just keep. having me do the same things. How do I. get out of this?" And I I gave her some. advice and you know, I said, "Well, just. stop interviewing your dad like every. week. Don't do that um as a start." And. then but she's. um. done incredibly well and and she you. know, I love her and she terrible. situation for her to be in while they're. you know, totally defenestrating your.

cousin. and you move up. Yeah, that is. thing. I I mean I I felt I felt as badly. for her because it's just you know, it's just awkward. She didn't want it that way. Oh, of course not. Of course not. Wow, also shocking. great fun today. I mean I saw her. recently and I we always have laughs and. everything's. wonderful. I and recently ran into Phil Griffin. No way. Buddy, as we call him. thought I thought he was behind all this. and I was ready to lay into him and I.

started to. And he was like, "No. No, the man that fired you, I hate him, too.". Lack. Yeah, everybody hates Lack. The. one thing everyone agrees on is that. Andy Lack is a very bad guy. You know what's funny? Phil Griffin. fired me, and it's one of the very probably the. only firing I've had a lot of firings, but it was the only one where I had no. hard feelings whatsoever. Yeah. And he called me in at Thanksgiving, I'll never forget it, and I was about to. take the train back to Washington. He.

goes, "Hey, can I talk to you for a sec, buddy?" Called everyone buddy. Buddy. Probably still does. And he goes, um. "Hey, uh you know, we hired you here at. MSNBC. We were hoping to move the. channel right to compete with Fox. That. didn't work. Um. and then you brought in Rachel Maddow. onto your show, and it turns out she's. way more popular with her audience than. you, so uh we're going to let you go. uh cuz it didn't work. And but we'll pay. out your contract, and it's totally. fine, and". He was so direct with me and honest with. me. Those That's exactly what I mean, first he started He was like attacking.

me. in the New York Post page six, and I. called him up, and I yelled at him, and. Do we have to do it this way? Like this. is Do it this way. You You news people. have to do it this way. They have to because. to use the gossip pages in New York. Exactly. It's all to crush you and. whatever. Oh. But once I called him on that, and he. stopped, um he was totally honorable. about it. Good. And you know, I obviously don't like or. approve of MSNBC, but I've never. attacked Phil Griffin because he paid me.

the honor of directness. I like that. Me, too. What he said to me in June was when I. was coming after I wanted to corner him, he said uh he said, "No, I asked Andy, 'Hey, you know, you've helped. Yeah, what's his name? Brian Williams. before. Like you you you've You stand up. for people that we like, and Billy Bush. is a good guy. Like what are you going. to do about Billy?" And Andy said to. him, he told me, "Fuck Billy Bush. Who gives a Who cares? Billy Bush,

what? Doesn't matter, he's nothing. Forget him. And so, literally just. And I thought, "Oh my god.". But it endorsed it everybody. Uh. Yeah, there's something. Andy Lack is a terrible guy. My dad. called two people on my behalf. My. father, bless his heart, you called Noah. Oppenheim. My dad called Andy Lack. And. he's like a really in high integrity, clean-fighting guy. Only tells clean. jokes, like, you know,

calls up and says, uh. He says, "Andy, I don't know if you know. this. You No, he wrote him a letter. He. says, 'I've recently had a case of the. shingles. I don't know if you've had a. case of the shingles before, but they're. very, very painful, and I I just hope. that one befalls you soon. Something. You're a horrible You're a horrible. person, Jonathan Bush.' He's since died. 3 years ago. But then he also called. Steve Burke, because back in the day Dad. knew his. his father, not well, but his father was. Dan Burke, who ran Cap Cities ABC. So,

Steve Burke, the who was the CEO and. chairman of NBC at the time, Dad called him and said, "There's no way this apple could have. fallen far from the tree. Your What. you're doing to my son. is unbelievable. It's a character You're. killing this guy.". And he didn't do anything. "And shame on you. There's no way the. apple fell that far from the tree. Your. dad was an honorable, honorable man.". And he was like, "I'm so sorry. I don't. know I don't know what to do. I'm You. know, it's just out of my hands. I'm. sorry. So sorry." I was like,

That was it. But of the people always. reach out when someone's down, and always call to tell someone an. that they're an when. they are. Exactly. Right? No, but be direct. I think that's That's. Be direct. And that's why you'll never hear me. attack Phil Griffin, even though, you. know, Right. Good. And me, neither, cuz I it. like cleared I wanted to like him so. much, and then I was like, but he. I remember his face like walking out of. Andy Lack's office. when the plan was in motion to fire me. MSNBC was never first on the air with a.

story and they were first on the air. with the bus story cuz they knew it was. coming. It was a setup. They had they had colluded. So just one detail that. I lighted over which is how it got from. the vaults at NBC News to the Washington. Post. Who did it go to? We don't know exactly, but if you want. to begin the internal investigation, Noah Oppenheim is the president of. of NBC. He's the head of the He's. general manager of the Today show. His co-editor of the Harvard Crimson.

newspaper back when he was a Harvard man. uh was. a writer named David Fahrenthold from. the Washington Post and Fahrenthold is. the one they they ran the Crimson. together. They were uh. both groomsmen in Hillary and Chelsea. Clinton's wedding. Actually? Co-groomsmen. Oh yeah, cuz one of their. other buddies was the guy that Chelsea. married. So they were groomsmen in the. wedding together. Anyway, that guy's the. one who released it. It's like the paper.

trail is terrible. I mean, I could start. there. So the college buddy of the NBC. president. a writer at Washington Post and then 2. years later or a year and a half later. he gets his own NBC News contributing. gig and he gets a sweet gig over at. MSNBC. So they they pay him back for the. for the hustle. Is what I That's where I. would start the investigation. Not. saying that that happened, but I would. begin there. and just see if it saves you some time. I don't know. Now, I can guarantee you.

that here's the good thing about No, that Noah didn't want to do this. I'm. his only hire. He was new on the job and. he made one move. I'm going to change. that third hour. I'm putting Billy Bush. in there. He's got personality. That's. the guy we want. Boom, he makes his one. hire. Then this thing blows up on him. and Lack no question turns to him and. says. get this tape to a hot out into the. world. Find a way to do it. And he's like and. he did not want to, but this was the. obvious way.

So, you know, his only choice was to say no Andy, I'm. not going to do that. It's wrong. I. hired the guy and we shouldn't do that. to him. But, he didn't. What happened to Andy Lack? Andy eventually got fired. He. To be fair, everyone who was involved in. all of this has all since been fired. This is honest Everyone's been fired. This is like the Soviet Union where you. know, all the early Bolsheviks commit. these mass murders. It's not worth it, folks. Then they're all killed. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trotsky all die.

But Lack is now, I've been told, at PBS. somewhere producing some serious Why was. he fired from NBC? Uh. just one bungle after the next. He. bungled the Me Too thing came along Me. Too movement came and and and the the. Harvey Weinstein thing he bungled and. then he bungled the Brian Williams that. that disaster and then the Matt Lauer. disaster and I think at the end at the. end of the day they're just like. this is not a good guy. Was Brian Williams on your side? He wasn't He never.

He never reached out. I mean I I mean I. I like Brian. I'm. I've no reason not to. Uh I always had fun with. uh Tom Brokaw was on the same floor as. me where my office was. Greg Melvin was. right next to me. Loved Greg. Greg came. up to me at a country club. I was having. lunch with an old agent of mine out in. Rowayton. Yeah. I went out there to have lunch with an. old agent who was who was in kind of in. poor health. So, just went to see him. And I ran into Craig and his wife and. their kids in the parking lot and he.

said. I'm so sorry what happened to you. Like. this is you were such a good guy and I. just. it's terrible. I'm so. there? He just got the big promotion. He's in the lower chair. Oh. Maybe he planned this whole thing. He. took this a long plan, Greg. That's an. 8-year plan. Now, great guy, lovely, uh decent singing voice, and um. Amazing. So, the people you know, you. still must know people in linear. television at the Today show or other.

places. Sure. How do How are they feeling about the. prospects of their. There's a few big There's like a few big. contracts left, but they're all. shrinking. Like Stephanopoulos just. renegotiated to come down. Everyone's. coming down. They're all coming down to. Earth. Hoda left, but the There's still. plenty of 20 25 million dollar a year. people, like everyone on Good Morning. America. Uh but they're all their renegotiations. come down. The whole thing is slowly The. lowest For the next 5. 10 years, I think there'll be a place. for the.

for that morning TV, right? But But not. at these astronomical. It doesn't feel like it drives anything. anymore. Well, it's so scared that it doesn't. take an opinion. It doesn't take a. position. It doesn't It's It's It's. The comp. They're not comp. Today show and Good Morning America are. not competing. to win or to grow. It's who can die the. slowest. Yeah. That's the fight. But it it doesn't I mean, it used to be.

for decades, you know, if it appeared in. the first hour of the Today show, it. kind of defined the news. 7:35 a.m. was known as the the money. slot. Whatever Whatever airs at 7 Still. to this day, whatever airs at 7:35, folks, that's the best thing they got. And after that, you can move on. But it doesn't seem like it like. determines what people are talking about. at 8:35 anymore. No. No. No. The internet is. is. Just ate it. It eating destroying everyone. It's an. insatiable belly.

It can't get enough. So, what do you do after So, you get. canned, and then what happens? So, I get canned and my life falls apart. and I start drinking heavily and. I I. I pathetically cry and cry and cry and. and and and and I can't get. I just have like anxiety and panic and I. end up going to this place called the. Hoffman process. The day that Donald. Trump walked in for his first day of.

work. as president of the United States was. the day that I walked in, turned in my. phone. and checked in for 9 days in a mental. health retreat. for because I couldn't. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't uh the. panic and the anxiety was just. cancellation like at that level is it's. it's severe. The mental toll, you know, we're fortified now, nothing could. happen like that again to me. I had to. learn the hard way and I was maybe.

especially weak. at the time was so far. so. so far from Marcus Aurelius that. I couldn't handle that, but I wanted to. lay I had suicidal ideation. I had like. I was on a balcony in this place I was. renting and I was like. and I had to lay down on the ground cuz. I felt myself like wanting to go to just. get away from. I had paparazzi everywhere outside. following me, saying to me and. and I just got so bad that I went to. this place and that was my first that.

was in January of 17 and that was my. first step in in putting myself. together. I walked on the flames with. Tony Robbins. I read every book you. could read. I started, you know, yoga. I, you know, my found this amazing. pastor who became my friend. I had this. wonderful photo of me in church. at this church Zoe Church in in Los. Angeles, Pastor Chad Veach, a really. great guy, and he. I didn't know he was doing it. I mean,

he said everybody. he said a prayer for me out loud at at. everyone in the congregation reached. forward and put their hand on my. shoulders. I like fell apart crying and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to I'm going to put. myself back together. I'm I'm this is. we'll fortify here.". And then you just one step after the. next and step after the next and. and then you get going. And. life gets better. I didn't think it I I. it would but it it's like. now it's about to get much better as I.

follow great. um pioneers like you and Megan and and. and others and and do things in my way. been fired, yeah. Yeah. It's So, look. you know, I mean, it's probably hard even to think of it. but. I wonder if like. when you're 70, you won't think, you. know, it's probably that it wasn't all. bad that experience. I think that's right. People will say to. you when you're having in the in the. shittiest time of your life, they'll say.

"It's all going to work out in the end. It's all going to be a reason. It's all. Believe me, once you get through it, life will never be me." And I think. there's truth to that. You just got to. get to the other side. I wasn't ready for. anything bad to happen to me and now I'm. ready for whatever comes next. Yes. I really am. I'm I'm very I'm not an. I can handle it. Whatever it is, I can. handle it. And also to go and do the. show that I'm about to go do on my own,

I think it's helpful to know what it. feels like to be down. No matter who you're talking to, if. you're a professional communicator, to to know what it feels like. to be down is a really important. tool. I strongly agree with that. Yeah. I also think I've noticed certainly. noticed it in my own life that success. isn't necessarily great for men and. especially men. And it does you do get filled with.

hubris actually and you. thought I was a cool guy. Like to to. Yeah, I've been there. I've been there. I'm not mocking you in any way cuz I've. certainly been there and. um in fact I've been there so much that. when I got fired the last time Susie, my. wife, um. she was like thrilled I got fired. Absolutely thrilled. She didn't like the. employer anyway. Uh she thought that they were. That's interesting. Yeah, no, she was thrilled. She was she. was actually walking the dogs and I. called her. I was like I. I just got fired and she goes, "Why?" I. said, "I don't know. They didn't tell. me." She goes, "I'm so glad.". Oh my god, I love you so much, Susie.

Oh, that's great. what she's like, but. She's the best. Yeah, but I and then she never said it. or would say it, but I do think she on a. gut level understood. It's like it's. important for a man to have setbacks. once in a while because it it reminds. you what's important. These are all. clichés for a reason, but it reminds you. that you're not God. and you need to know that. It's really. important to know that. Yeah, and if life was just one rosy. contract after the next and look at me, look at me. What kind of textured life would that. be? You have a You can't come back and.

triumph over something if you got. nothing to triumph over. So, that's just. the way life is, right? look at Lauer and Roker and they're. hardly alone in this, but they're like. legitimately successful people on. television. They're the most successful. people on television. Very, very rich in the long run. And very long run. Lauer's run, unbelievable. Roker's even longer. By the way, take me out, but not after 2. months. How about after 20 years? When. I'm sitting on a giant pile of money. you pay off the mortgage? But But why.

are they so unhappy? Like I've wondered. this since I got into TV in 1995. So, that's 30 years. I've always noticed. that that the most successful people are. like miserable. Someone yesterday told. me. knows Larry Fink, who's like one of the. richest people in the world. Runs. BlackRock. He said, "Larry Fink, really. smart, you know, complicated person, not. all bad, but the marker, the distinguishing. characteristic of Larry Fink is he's. miserable. He's truly unhappy. What is that? Why are so many.

very successful people miserable? I don't know, but I I I do know that I. don't want to be a billionaire. I'm not. interested in it. No, thanks. I want to have enough to do the things, you know, that that that I want I want. to be able to go skiing and all. Why do you Why do you say. Because there there there's I mean, not. to say more money, more problems, but I. I. it's it's a drug like anything else. Keep taking it, keep taking me more, give me more, give me more. It's never going to satisfy. It's just. never going to satisfy. And what I want. seen that.

I'm not doing what I'm doing. I'm not. launching my new show to. become rich on my own and make a lot of. money. I want to be stimulated. I want to have conversations like this. I want to look at you and be honest with. you and and talk to. every person I talk to in a completely. honest, authentic, funny way. And I. don't The truth isn't going to appeal to. everyone, but the truth matters. Yes. I care more about that. I care about. being stimulated every day. And if we do.

well, that's awesome. So, it sounds like the just in you're. telling the 3 years of not working were. it's not good not to work. It's not good not to work. You got to. get up and have someplace to go. That's. Yeah. You need to have something you're doing. Yeah. Uh and not, you know, I just kept. thinking, how could they betray all my. god? Oh my god. Oh my god. How could. they betray me like this? Uh I couldn't. get out of my own way. I was like just. so mad. My brother said something. beautiful. He said, "When you get over. all this, you're going to get over it.

And when you do, you're going to get the. opportunity to come back as yourself.". Well, your brother, speaking of getting. screwed, totally different line of work. Very different. I. talked to him the other day about. something random, and uh. said a totally happy and at peace. Totally. Now, he's overcome that, and you know. what he did? He launched a He started. another one. Amazing. Yeah, he's got his a new healthcare. company called Zeus Health. So, he. started Athena, and Zeus is the father.

of Athena. So, he's reminding everyone. who built it. Yeah, A to Z. Um. how did you get over that? How did you. forgive? Cuz you actually I think it's. fair to say at this point and we're. almost 2 hours in and he was all of this. I think would agree you did get shafted. How did you forgive? Um. because well, my executive producer who. sent the tape, he was only looking to. cover his ass. in case he used it and they. and Trump sued. So, I I when I really.

thought about it, I'm like, he wasn't He. was trying to cover himself. He wasn't. trying to hurt me. It ended up really. hurting me, but he didn't mean to. And the good times that I've had with. him far outweigh the bad. We've traveled. all over the world to the Olympics and. all these different things and covered. so many things together, and we really. work well together. So, we healed the. friendship. And now he's going to be the. producer of my new show, and we're back. together again. Am I a big person or what? I mean, come. on. That little And then I But but I I.

I I love him, and um. and now he works for me and I don't work. for him. So, uh. uh but with Noah, I knew that Noah was. just doing what they told him to do and. he didn't have He just arrived to this. giant machine and he didn't have the. guts to say no. Yeah. The We're doing the right thing. I'm not. doing that. Most people would have done what he did. Most. Yes, that's. It takes a really big person of. character to not do that. So, I forgave. him. Uh and.

What's he doing now? The only one I don't forgive is Andy, and I could if he came to me and asked. for it. But he doesn't return, you know, he's just a He's just a I tried. calling him once and. so, I'm fine not forgiving him. Like I'm. fine like. I can like I'm not my soul won't rot if. I can just live and hate one person, right? It's just one. Tucker, it's just one. You may Look, I'm no theologian, but I. think you it's possible you get the Andy. Lack exemption. I don't know. I don't know. I just I kind of like. hating him anyway.

And what's so what's No Apologies I'm. doing now? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I'm going to rush to the right after. Yeah, let's call him. Billy Bush, that was um thank you for. doing this. Okay. Now, will you tell people to tune. in to my new show? 100%. January 13th is Monday we begin. And. guess what the name of the show is? Just to bring everything A to Z. Hot Mic's with Billy Bush. The mic's are still hot except for. we know they are.

Where are you doing. Where are you doing it from? Uh I got a great little studio over by. that Howie Mandel a little corner of. Howie Mandel's operation that he set up. for me and then ultimately we'll build. out our. Los Angeles? In Los Angeles. While we're doing that. we'll build our own. So how long. So it's been your whole life you've. worked for companies. Yeah, I work for myself now. And the Hot Mic's is like it's a it's. the zeitgeist sports, politics,

entertainment, pop culture everything that's happening. in the in that's hot. Uh. Yeah, I'm really excited. Really got a. great team of people. I'm learning this. incredible world that you know so well. No makeup required. Did you know that? I don't need any makeup. Right, but I'm saying you beautiful 50. You don't MAKE UP YOUR. YOU YOU YOU LOOK the same. You have no. gray hair. What are you doing? Uh. Do you do rinse out? Do you do a little. rinse out? I I actually, honestly, wash my hair. with Dr. Bronner's bar soap. So um and I.

shave with it and I use no products. whatsoever. And I am Scandinavian, which helps. Uh. but. you as a man of good hair? Your hair is. fantastic. And here two good the hair Hall of Fame. we have a shot. There you go. I have a picture of us in high school, same hair. Big hair. Big hair. Um, it was bigger it was. bigger in the '80s. Yeah. Yeah. You were an animal, man. This guy what a. this is. You got you got yourself going on the. right path. Yeah. Well, that was that was wonderful.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. So, it turns out that YouTube is. suppressing our show. I know. Shocking that in an election year with. everything at stake Google would be. putting its thumb on the scale and. preventing you from hearing anything. that the people in charge don't want you. to hear, but it turns out it's. happening. So, what can you do about it? Well, we could whine about it, but. that's a waste of time. I'm not in. charge of Google. Or we could find a way.

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