Andrey Melnichenko (One of Russia’s Richest Men) on Nuclear War and Why Biden Wants to Destroy Him

the US government is now orchestrating a. bombing campaign within Russia the. United States is at in a hot war with. Russia because the president was just. convicted former president Trump there's. a lot going on in the US they're both. nuclear arm Powers what are the chances. that this becomes a nuclear exchange for. now I don't see forces which is. seriously working to deescalation do you. think Trump is capable of of stopping. this trajectory of escalation how many. countries are you banned from visiting. European Union UK Switzerland.

Canada United States New Zealand. Australia Japan. Japan to be honest I'm not sure about. Japan I need to. check why do you think taking Putin out. as President of Russia became the number. one objective of the US government I. think it's a pretty straightforward. climate protesters in Europe have been. destroying in Renaissance paintings in. the name of ending climate change how do. you get from a concern about global. temperatures to destroying art what is. that. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. Andre thank thank you for coming so we. had dinner this winter in the Middle. East it was one of the most interesting. dinners I've ever had in my long life. and we've been texting ever since and I. wanted to to set down some of that.

conversation on tape because I thought. people would be edified to hear it and I. knew that you were on the sanctions list. for some reason I didn't really. understand why um I still don't. understand why but we are now in El. Salvador because we couldn't meet. anywhere else we couldn't meet in the EU. we couldn't meet anywhere in the. anglosphere we couldn't even meet in. Switzerland which is given up at. sovereignty to Nato somehow um and so. we're meeting here very far from where. you. live tell us who you are and how you.

wound up on the sanctions. list I'm Andre minenko I am 52 years old. uh I'm self-made business person I. started my business when I was 19 years. old during my study in the Moscow State. University I've done pretty well I've. built a couple companies which became. world leaders on their fields of. activities a trust fund which uh taken. care about assets of my family uh on Yim. which is top three Global producer and. fertilizers.

and also Su which one of the biggest. world energy companies so that's what I. did I never work for any state Russia or. any other I never participate in any. privatization any big government. activities so that's it what else I do. so you are what you are described in the. US press as an oligarch oligarchs at. least in my understanding were people. who as the Soviet Union collapsed in '. 91 grabbed State Industries because they. had inside connections and they killed.

people and but I think you were a. teenager when it civil union collapsed. correct I arrived at Moscow when I was. 16 years old I was studying in the. school which is part of the Moscow. University yes then I was studying in. the Moscow physic faculty of the Moscow. University that was a moment when Soviet. Union collapsed I did not have any. connection I was in the new city for me. so what I did I start to organize. businesses uh different businesses at. this age so most interesting uh it was a. bank I received a banking license when I.

was 21 years old a little bit later uh. this Bank grow become one of the biggest. bank in Russia biggest private banks in. Russia and I sold it in. 2017 and then you went into the. fertilizer business during '90s uh my. bank uh did not participate in anything. what is uh you're referring to so we did. not participate in privatization we did. not grab uh basically government assets. so we grew up like a market Institution.

so that was only what I did during '90s. in the beginning of 2000s I start to be. interesting in the industrial businesses. also but again we did not participate in. uh privatization we bought it mostly. from the secondary Market from people. who bought it uh during middle 90s so uh. why I did not participate in. privatization very simple I was 23 24. years old I did not have resources and. uh this opportunity pass so you're you. are self-made I'm defitely.

self-made um so then. 2022 arrives and Russian troops move. across the border into eastern Ukraine. you are not working for the Russian. government I don't even know if you live. in Russia at this point you're not a. political figure you've never been. elected to anything you're not a close. friend of Putin's you don't seem to have. anything to do with the invasion of. Ukraine is that. fair definitely I have nothing to do. with his invasion in Ukraine that's. absolutely true okay yeah so uh from an. American perspective we read that.

the US government is seizing Russian. assets and we imagine these are State. assets I'm opposed to it anyway because. I think it's bad for the United States. but the story that we are told is that. these are Russian assets but your assets. are not Russian assets they're your. assets is that correct okay so uh what. happened with me in 222 uh certain. Western countries start to impose. sanction on me what does it means what. sunction means in general sunction means. that your assets are uh how to say. basically.

arrested and like a result there is also. a risk of confiscation after that any. businesses or any companies uh to which. you are connected if they have operation. on the west this operation basically uh. cannot be performed going further so you. cannot do business in the Western. countries which apply sunction and short. I'm BN from the visiting Western. countries that's what sunction means uh. answering on your questions there are. different type of sanction there are. economic sanction so usually the. sanction applicable either to some.

states like for example against. government or against State central. banks or whatever exist uh sanctions. which is targeted economic sector for. example uh oil or gas industry or I. don't know some and other sectors which. bringing to certain government revenue. uh after that exist sunction which. Target in companies so all of the. sunction have a meaning a purpose to. basically weaken economy Bas of your. adversary that is little bit. understandable there are after that. personal s it's slightly different.

usually the sun targeting individuals. people so for example they will Target. politician or government official or uh. people who do certain kind of the. promoting violence or ETA so that's. understandable so purpose of this stion. that people change their behavior they. stop to do uh what they're doing so that. is purpose of this s and exist third. type of the sunction the sanctions are. applicable not because you did something. bad they're applicable because Who You. Are so that how it works they applicable.

to certain class of the people in my. case I was s not because I did something. bad I was sun because who I am and I'm. wian that's why I. was you're familiar with the phrase do. process it's part of the. Anglo-Saxon the basis of our legal code. in the United States and in Great. Britain and other enlightened countries. and the idea is that you cannot be. punished until you are proved to have. done something until you're guilty was. there a process that you participated in.

before your your assets were taken uh. okay uh so there are two different legal. system European one and American one yes. in European one they done most simple. way they say that exist criteria which. allow them to sanction anyone who is. going under this criteria criteria it's. very simple it calls leading business. person so if you're leading business. person it means wealthy person who is. doing well what other way what what. otherwise it can mean so that is already. good enough criteria to put sanction on.

you after that full discretion given to. authorities so it's not necessary that. each and every Legion business person. will be sanctioned but Authority have a. discretion to decide uh with whom to do. it with whom not to do it so first. question is of course looks like people. not equal in terms of the law so because. that's a process which is basically uh. unclear it's not clear criteria in. United States uh probably such simple. criteria like to sanction business.

person would not be explainable to the. society at the end of the day it's not. it's so unamerican it just cannot be. like this that's why in United States. other criteria is use for example in. United States I was sun in August to 22. uh because of my participation in. financial sectors that's it so that was. uh a reason of my sing yes it's true I. have been participating in financial. services in the age of 20 21 years old I. create a bank together with is my. partner from the physic University uh so.

uh this bank had initial Capital about I. don't know $50,000 at this moment when I. sold it in. 2017 uh the value of this bank was about. $3 and5 billion dollar buyers was most. respected Western Institution for. example AFC part of the World Bank uh. group and a number of the other first. class investors so after that I never. participated in any financial services. so I'm sorry I said 2017 it was 2007 it.

means I have not participated in. financial services 14 years before s. were imply for me that's it so that's. the official vision of my stion so uh. what does it means it means of course. it's formality American law give. possibility to the administration to. again use their discretion but they need. to follow certain rules so if you're in. financial services they consumtion you I. have been in financial services 14 years. ago if any reason to for this I don't.

see why that's why I think that's in. reality it's same like in Europe I was. not because I did something I was. sanctioned because who I am and we. should be clear about what sanction. means in this case it's not simply that. you're not allowed to do business in. this or that place or you can't travel. to this or that country they stole your. personal. property uh for now they seize my prop. for now what's the difference between. seizing and stealing se you cannot touch. it you cannot use it uh you cannot uh.

basically it's blocked if you have money. on account they block on account if you. have private house uh basically you. cannot go in your house that's more or. less like this how much what's the would. you estimate the value of the assets of. yours personal assets that They seized. uh couple billion dollars couple of. billion. dollars and there was no trial uh it's. good question so this sunction how I. said they applicable not because you did. something bad but because who you are.

basically they're applicable to the. class of people so what kind of trial it. can be so uh now you can go and say I'm. not a Russian business person or I'm the. Russian business person that's kind of. the trial so basically power was giv to. authority to use just this criteria they. don't need to justify that you did. something bad so you're just a cool act. and that's it you're in the wrong class. of people you're in the wrong class of. people of course you can challenge it uh. you you said about due proes of course.

uh this concept very familiar to me in. United States it's a Fifth Amendment to. the American Constitution yes and. basically question is about if the. rights uh and privileges of the Fifth. Amendment to the United States. Constitutions are applicable to me or. not or to other people normally in. United States it will be unusual that. people can be uh basically uh not allow. access to the bu process because they. belong to the certain class be it race. be it Wells be it something else but in.

our case situation is exactly like. this are you going to get your assets. back I hope. so who decides who decides uh I guess. it's a political decision so on the. certain moment one way or another. situation will change and uh rules about. sanction I hope will also follow this. kind of the changes so you were not um. as you said in financial services. anymore haven't been haven't owned a.

bank since 2007 long before any of this. began 7 years before 2014 um but you do. own one of the world's biggest. fertilizer companies is that correct uh. again it's a little bit more complicated. uh but uh yes uh trust company which. manag assets on behalf of my uh family. uh own it's own couple of the companies. one of them it's Yim one of the biggest. world fertilizer company that's company. which supply to the market at about I. don't know 7% of the global trade in the.

fertilizer so it's pretty big company 7%. of all Global fertilizer something like. this in the World Trade because a lot of. domestic consumption but in the trade. it's something about this and of course. sunction against me affect this. company's big deal but you I mean it's. one thing to shut down a global arms. dealer but to try and punish a global. fertilizer dealer when fertilizer. provides food that people need to live. that does seem Maybe maybe that's not. the person you want to.

sanction uh once again so sanction uh. how they work in the beginning they were. done in the hurry in the stress I don't. think that uh Authority which use this. tool look very carefully for the. consequences what may happen in which. case especially it's applicable to the. situation of this sunction uh which is. how you can call them class. sanction class sanction Collective. punishment we call Collective punishment. for the rich people so because it's very.

difficult to predict who if you touch. this what else will be touched what what. happened in the fertilizing has anyone. ever accused you formally of doing. anything wrong never anything. never so you are innocent of any crimes. no one's even accusing you of crimes but. they stole billions of dollars worth of. your assets I consider myself a. collateral damage of the bigger conflict. I don't think it was anything.

personal but what does that make you. think of the system that did. that system was not ready for this type. of the actions actually uh if if I may. return step step before about fertilizer. what really happened so uh mostly it was. European problem because European Union. use like I said effect that somebody. it's a leading business person a wealthy. businessman like a criteria for stion in. order to say this they need to explain.

how exactly what's exactly your wealth. is in the case of mine and in the case. of some other owners of fertilizer. company it become connected basically my. wealth it's a fertilizer company it. means I'm connected with a fertilizer so. that's a justification to put me in the. category of the leading business person. but at the same time how it's. interesting it works so if I'm connected. with whatever company operation of this. company must to be blocked in the. European system on this way so Russ and. belarussia totally Supply about 20 22%.

of the fertilizer to the World Market so. situation which happened to me happened. with other owners of Russian fertilizer. company what was the result of it a. result was predictable in 222 during. about 11 months 12 months after Sun's. were apply uh Supply on the World Market. was dropped on about 18 million Stones. it's a huge number so that's was only. reason for drop of the supply was a. personal Sun it's well studed it's.

reported so that's basically What's. happen uh well people are if really so I. mean you will cause famines if you do. something like that won't you uh that's. exactly what happened you may have come. to the obvious conclusion that the real. debate is not between Republican and. Democrat or socialist and capitalist. right. left the real battle is between people. who are lying on purpose and people who. are trying to tell you the truth it's. between good and evil it's between.

honesty and falsehood and we hope we are. on the former side that's why we created. this network the Tucker Carlson Network. and we invite you to subscribe to it go. to tuckercarlson.com. podcast our entire archive is there a. lot of behind the-scenes footage of what. actually happens in this Barn uh when. only an iPhone is running Tucker. carlson.com. podcast you will not regret it so when. 20% of the VA Market uh disappear.

actually not 20% disappear because only. Supply which went through the Europe. meaning through the European ports or. other means where Europe had control. this part of Supply disappeared from the. World Market what happened like a result. prices of the fertilizer shut up so. about three times during 222 so it's. let's say from average $300 we start to. experience prices about. $900 what happened like a result uh. basically demand dropped so farmers. didn't have money to buy fertilizers but.

what kind of farmers it's where it was. disproportionally Farmers from the poor. countries because in the rich countries. governments will help to the farmers. they will give subsidies or something. else also consumers ready to pay more. for production produced by this farmers. but that is not the case in the poor. countries governments don't have means. to help farmers and uh otherwise. consumers not ready to pay because uh. they don't have enough income enough. possibility to do it so mostly uh.

disproportional effect of the sunction. was felt on the poor countries of Africa. some countries of Latin America some. countries of the Asia so that's where. supply of fertilizer drop now think. about it so uh this countries poor they. mostly they not able to substitute. domestic production of a ag Foods by. import uh why because it's much more. expensive so it's much cheaper to import. fertilizer and grow products. domestically rather than import grains.

or other products so if you don't have. money to pay for fertilizers you. definitely would not have money to pay. for the end product for the grain or for. something else so what happening if. Farmers did not bought fertilizers it. means domestic production of agriculture. products uh fell down like result uh. what happened domestic prices went up. what means when domestic practice of. agriculture products goes up Supply meet. demands in this case uh it's very simple. what means Supply mean demands Supply.

it's less demand becoming also less what. it means it means before people e three. times a day and some of them starting to. eat two times a day what means that what. means demands in terms of the food we. have a numbers and we have a researches. which show effect of this action on. certain countries country by country. well Global food prices have gone up I. mean that's a well-known fact that's. almost never in American Media connected. in any way to sanctions though or the or. the war in Ukraine or the war against.

Russia I mean that but you think that's. in part a result of not exactly not. exactly what it's two different stories. so what story about fertilizers in 222. it was story which was alive for about. one year after that the story basically. resolved itself why it resolved itself. because Russian fertilizers found other. way to the World Market instead of the. going through European ports Baltic. country ports or I don't know ports of. Ukraine so this fertilizer to go via. Russian ports it took about one year for.

system to adjust so issue resolve itself. but uh when you referring to the uh food. prices they're not exactly world food. prices it's a traded commodity that's. for example not so much affect of the. people in the poor in the most of the. poor countries of course some countries. import food like Egypt like no many. other countries but most really poor. countries they import inputs to produce. food right yeah so that's why effect was. felt mostly in the of the fertilizer.

crisis mostly in the very poor countries. countries which were not able to import. inputs of for the food production. because what is fertilizers fertilizers. input for food production yes so that. how it work do you think that the the. lawmakers of the United States who. impose sanctions and endorse them which. is almost all of them very few American. lawmakers oppose sanctions do you think. they thought this through did they know. the effects of it Downstream uh about a. particular crisis about fertilizers yes.

they know and I must say that United. States ofor dealt much more uh in a. better way compared with Europeans this. problem was created purely by Europeans. so uh Administration American. Administration uh state department and. other authorities actually uh dealt with. a crisis pretty responsible so they gave. opportunity uh to the sector to receive. so-called General licenses which. isolated uh company fertilizers uh.

company from no from this type of. effects that's why I would not say. nothing bad from United States in terms. of the food security story this issue. was taken seriously and we are very. basically World should be thanksful for. this but Europeans done a mistake so in. this particular case it was like this. how do you think um the war in Ukraine. and the response to it the sanctions. changes in energy distribution how is. that affecting. Europe it's affecting big deal it's.

affecting big deal it seems that way how. how uh in a certain moment uh when. supply of the cheaper energy to the. Europe was cut uh this energy naturally. was replaced by the more expensive. energy that's how it effect you used to. pay X and now you're paying X Plus so. that's. it but that's affected Europe's. industrial capacity mean you see BASF. moving a lot of its production out of. Germany of course of course that's right. but what does that look like in 10 or 15.

years what's the European economy look. like what does Europe look. like I would not remember exact number. but I think it will be pretty correct to. say that 2019 European GDP was something. about 15 trillion dollar and United. States GDP at that time was about 15.4. or something like this slightly bigger. so what is today GDP of United States if. I'm not mistaken it's something about 25. trillions in Europeans it's about 16 and. a half so it was not much growth during.

this period of time of course not. company which uh build their business on. access to the cheaper energy would. consider uh putting new enforement or. continue operation in Europe because now. European prices for energy it's much. higher in the United States of course. because European prices today uh it's a. derivative of the price of LG liquified. natural gas so if Americans consumers uh. indust consumers pay Henry Hub domestic.

price of United States for example then. European consumers need to pay uh plus. plus plus a lot of logistic costs for. the same product to be delivered in. Europe so it's a big difference compared. with the situation used to be uh before. the war how how has Russia been affected. by the war bad in one way because uh. it's a big destruction it's a tragedy. it's a tragedy for the Russian people. for sure and uh that's how it been.

affected if you think if you're asking. about economy okay economy doing uh. doing much better than many people. expected and many expert expected. so why why because a lot of new. production coming in place a lot of new. production connected with military. industrial complex first of course. yes did you expect that I mean the idea. of the United States was once we impose. these sanctions and funded. Ukraine Ukrainian military um that it.

would destroy the Russian. economy I don't think that idea to. destroy Russian economy on the short run. it's very feasible one I don't think so. it's a it's a quite uh adaptive economy. it's a quite big economy it's a. basically quite smartly run economic. system so I'm pretty sure uh there are. underestimation what Russia economy. capable to doess how is it smartly.

run we have a good team of technocrats. working in the government working in the. central bank and uh still now biggest. part of Russian economy basically it's a. market-based economy so companies in the. under scenario of the stress trying to. find their way to survive and uh looks. like doing them this more less. successfully what do you think Russia. learned from I mean you were you said. you got to Moscow at 16 you were 19 or.

something in ' 91 when the Soviet Union. collapsed and then it was what looked. like a pretty dark period in Russia for. next 10 years is what do you how bad was. that time and what do you think Russia. learned from. it I mean it was bad for some people it. was good for some people so uh of course. it was a moment of the dramatic change. something was happening maybe once in. once or twice during normal person life.

so it was changed from the system where. suddenly people receive a lot of freedom. but didn't not receive a lot of. responsibilities so that is what. happened at this time so when you. receive a lot of freedom but don't. receive responsibility when Society not. ready to be responsible what it does so. it leads toos and that is exactly what. start to happen so at this moment of. time uh many people who felt comfortable. with the previous system were. disoriented it was pretty difficult for. them to cope up with a new situation at.

the same time completely for this reason. it was a good ground for the people who. were not uh basically connected with the. previous way of life uh for young people. for people who in the simple way had. nothing to lose at this moment of time. so that's a moment when entrepreneurial. energy or ability to do something allow. you to do what's impossible to do in. other periods of time and I'm very. grateful that I was able to live through. this de period of time how did Putin. change.

Russia uh it was a quite natural. reaction on the situation of the '90s. '90s uh done a lot of brought a lot of. let's say chaos in Russia chaos chaos. yeah a lot of Chaos in Russia so many. people suffer it was pretty difficult so. Society was uh crying for the stability. that was really what was needed and it. was a great achievement uh what Putin. did he brought stability to Russia. are you close to Putin I never met him.

one-on-one you've never met Putin. one-on-one. never oh so you you have absolutely no. role in any of this in this yeah in the. in the governance of Russia I just can't. get past the fact that you're a. bystander with a Russian last name and. the West stole billions of dollars worth. of their. assets um that's not kind of what we're. told the system. does you're not you don't seem mad about. it how you can be met on something what.

you cannot control it's like to be met. on the rain it will. pass what do you think the effect on the. United States has been of this war in. Ukraine effect yes uh I mean if you take. Sunshine and economic part actually what. I don't like I don't like when I hear. from the certain politician when they. say it's a great for American economy. that's what I don't like really like. when people say it's great for the jobs. it great for the econ e it's great for. something honestly it's make me sick.

because to kill other people if it's. even great for your economy it should. not be great I agree you cannot be proud. of this that's what I think about this. part of the income input it's disgusting. I agree from Another Side from Another. Side I would say that. uh I know more or less what will be. effect of the sanction so uh I think it. will be end of the many institutions. which were traditional for number of the. years such institution like dollar like. United States dollar for example some.

like a Global Currency what we see. already in this year for example foreign. trade of the China 50% more than 50% of. the foreign trade of China done in not. in dollars anymore and it used to be. about 90% just 12 years ago so that is. what happening in Russia dollar was. dominating currency for the I mean for. any outside export import operation. today it's what 14% it's more or less. like this and the same process is going.

in other countries so that will be one. major effect basically I think dollar. will lose its position like World. dominating currency much bigger like a. result of all all of happen What will be. the effect on the United States of. losing the dollar as the international. currency I think it's one of the three. or four major assets which country. has um but what are the practic as a as. a former Banker what are the practical. effects practical effects so if Less in. investors won a dollar it means interest.

rates are higher inflation it's higher. it's more difficult to refinance debts. no etc etc it means a lot of things when. you cannot emit world currency it means. completely different wealth where you. in this seems obvious as a non- banker. that was my first thought when these. sanctions were imposed this will scare. people out of using the dollar because. it's being used as a political weapon. not just IM medium exchange it's not a. safe haven anymore if I could see that. with no educ ation or background at all. in this area why wasn't that obvious to.

you as policy. makers hard to. say perhaps uh the comparing pluses and. minuses of such policies they put. balance on the pluses what would be the. pluses from an American perspective oh. that's hard for me to say that's better. to say from the American perspective I. have no idea well I am an American and I. don't understand any of this I don't. understand why you would want. to kill or depose Putin which is of.

course the whole point I mean you can. like Putin or not I don't have to live. under Putin so I don't have strong. feelings either way but why do you. think taking Putin out as President of. Russia became the number one objective. of the US government it doesn't seem. obvious that that would be your. objective I think it's uh pretty. straightforward uh it was a you need to. look history not so long but at least. for the 20 years back so uh in reality. cooperation between Russian government.

and Western governments deteriorated. during last maybe 20 years so that was a. process uh if you see how it developed. it developed with the increase of the. NATO presence closer to the Russian. borders it's uh it was many other things. which basically uh contributed to this. deteriation of relation and I would not. say it was like from one side or from. Another Side it was a way it was a. number of the things which basically. brought us where it's brought it it's.

become more and more and more difficult. during uh last 15 years what is really. uh for my understanding all of these. events in the Ukraine are it just moving. of the conflict on the next next level. escalation that's what it is so that was. 2014 so what is uh the reality it's. events of 222 it's a game it's a. movement of the story which was in the. process maybe 15 20 years uh of uh. basically unresolved situation of. security in Europe to the next level of.

escalation so basically it's one process. Ukraine for my understanding it wasn't. like issue by itself it's a process of. non understanding of not ability to. communicate to find the common solution. between West United States first of all. and Russia which led step by step to. step to the new and new levels of the. escalation that was a process and what. happened during this process uh parties. lost trust to each each other so Russian. government Russian leadership uh lost.

trust in the western system inability to. find a Solutions with the Western. leaders same happened from the western. side so Western leaders lost uh trust in. ability to make uh to find understanding. and to resolve complex issue with the. Russian leadership so that is what. happened so when it's happened that's. probably answering on your question. why so it's just a kind of process of. forward movement that Will Go On on the.

principle of entropy Forever Until some. something stops like sounds like there. is no motive it's just organizations. keep going until they don't Dynamic it's. not very good so Dynamic it means uh. that uh because basic issues basic uh. problems are not resolved or even not. articulated sometimes uh more and more. and more uh different means of. Confrontation coming in into the play so.

uh for my understanding uh basically. what's happening in Ukraine it was one. more step towards this escalation but. then again uh can be another step and. can be another step so unfortunately we. are moving towards this direction for my. opinion right now where are we right now. would you say I would say in very. dangerous moment in the moment when. which perhaps we did not experience for. last I would say from 90 from 84. something like this for the last 4.

years I mean the US government is. now basically orchestrating a bombing. campaign within Russia I mean the United. States is at in a hot war with Russia. and this is because the president was. just convicted former president Trump. there's a lot going on in the US I don't. think that most Americans fully. understand we're in a hot war with. Russia so I mean they're both nuclear on. Powers what are the chances that this. becomes a nuclear.

exchange unfortunately each conflict has. its own Dynamic so for now I don't see. forces which is seriously worken to. deescalation because uh it's not defined. yet what victory means it's not Define. with what what purpose of each. conflicting party really is in reality. it's described but today these goals are. not really uh discussed yeah it's like. one party moving one Direction what for. example Ukrainian party saying Ukrainian.

party of this conflict saying okay we. want something like go back to the. situation when it's everything was in. 2014 okay so they want to do. deescalation two steps compare with this. today situation step not 222 but step. 2014 at the same time What from the. Russia perspective we are hearing when. we are listening news or whatever Russia. saying no we want something bigger we. want to do deescalation even further we.

wanted to come back to situation when. security arrangement in Europe done in a. such way that Russia does not feel uh in. danger from different sides so that's to. what Russia leadership referring so why. to do one step of escalation we need to. do twostep escalation so that is like. two completely different languages so uh. you cannot discuss one part one type of. uh basically problem and don't discuss. another so when two parties don't hear. each other and each of them kind of.

living in their own weth with their own. limitation what you should predict you. should predict that more people will die. that escalation will continue and God. forgive us but uh nextra of escalation. can be crossed both sides are now openly. sort of openly talking about using. nuclear weapons I never thought I would. live to see that that seems crazy it's. extremely scary. are the Russians worried of course they.

are of course they are but once again uh. even from Russia side I can understand. uh basically Dynamic but what I don't. understand I don't understand why West. not worrying about what today's. situation remind me very much situation. which was in the Autumn 221 so what we. saw in the Autumn 221 we saw military. Maneuvers near Ukrainian border we saw. the proposal to come back and to discuss. uh different type of the arrang which. can make situation little bit more. secure not little bit more but more.

secure more predictable when security. it's basically working in the both side. not only against Russia but also such. such Arrangement where Russia feel. secure that was a major discussion. somewhere in the Autumn to 21 so Russia. came with a certain proposal it was a. lot of discussion what was the result. result was. actually noise result was okay it will. not happen the result will was okay just. try to do it and we do something more.

terrible to you that was kind of the. discussion at this moment of time what. Russia did at this time move situation. the next level of escalation on the. basically situation which we in the. beginning of the special military. operation that's what Russia did so that. happened once so compare with the. situation today military Maneuvers yeah. uh there a tactical nuclear weapon at. this time a lot of basically comments. like oh don't take it seriously Mr Putin. did not use bomb for two years for sure.

he will never use it anymore in the. future yeah all of this kind of the. discussion we need to ignore it because. if basically Russia will do it we'll do. it something even more terrible what it. remind you for me it's remind to 21 in. beginning of. 22 but Putin did roll across the border. in the end Putin did roll across the. border so why if one time the escalation. move on the next basically so we're. almost getting to like theological. questions here do you think the West.

wants a nuclear war is this a an effort. to commit suicide like what is. this I think just unability to propose a. scenario which basically Western leaders. can uh explain and uh find a a right. balance with the actually it's very. difficult question it is very difficult. question Society Western Society so much. uh support. of the was so much basically done.

supportive to the C which was promoted. by the Western politician to the certain. moment so because it's so. simplify narrative like unprovoked. aggression unprovoked aggression meaning. exist aggressor if exist aggressor what. you can do you need to react on unproc. aggression to punish so how can you. change this narrative so this narrative. it's very difficult if you're a. politician who is dealing with this. limitation how to deal Vis this that's. very difficult sometimes it's easy just.

to follow iner just to do sure I mean of. course I understand that and their. Prestige is at stake and no one wants to. admit a mistake and no one wants to be. seen as siding with Putin or being a. disloyal American or Belgian or you know. Frenchman or whatever um the media. control people by attacking them but you. would think that a nuclear exchange. would be the moment where people would. say well you know I don't care what you. call me we're not going to have a. nuclear war because that could be that.

would be the end of people and I would. do anything I could do to stop that. anything including accept responsibility. for dumb statements I made before be. embarrassed or being called names I. don't care I'm going to try and stop. nuclear war I thought that was the red. line for people but it's not if American. society understand the moment where we. are I don't think they do but you think. we're at that. moment I think that level of escalation. it's very.

possible after that if you take it like. effect that next level of escalation. it's possible what next level of. escalation may be well that's all that's. left um but again it raises the. theological question like what is why. why did Europe decide to destroy itself. in 1914 why is the West once again on. the brink of destroying itself what is. that it doesn't seem rational at all I. think it's uh pretty understandable uh I.

believe in Western democratic system in. certain moment it's allowed to change. the course so leaders change and then if. some leaders follow some particular. scenario it's very difficult for them to. change their opinion to change the. position which they took uh towards the. population of their countries but when. democratic system make a change then. course of society may change also so I. think this problem will pass in one way.

and another problem is how fast this. will pass if some tragedy will not. happen before that's what's so if the. leader of the West the American. president changed his view on this then. you think he could lead Europe to. deescalate I think we don't have choice. but we must to escalate do I believe. it's realistic honestly Dynamic looks. like it's not very realistic right now. it's very difficult so I don't know some. I needed in such. situation so your read as a non-american.

who's not allowed in the United States. but I'm I know you follow this carefully. do you think Trump is capable of of. stopping this trajectory of escalation I. don't. know is there any other leader in the. world who is I don't know I think uh. today W in general have a problem with. the leaders who can look not on the. polarized way to say that is true or. that is true but people who can look a.

little bit more globally I think we have. a deficit of this people right now so. and idea of this constant conflict of uh. this things with raptured World on part. it's. become very dangerous it's become very. dangerous so I need I think that world. need a moment for a little bit of cool. down and then probably the process will. start what remember what stopped the war. in Vietnam actually I think it was only.

one Way which stop it it was a slogan. remember this hey he LBJ how many kids. did you kill today so I think that was a. probably one of the most important. things which happened during this period. of time because it's very simple and. that goes directly to your conscious so. you repeat something and suddenly you. start to think okay maybe it's not about. communism capitalism I don't know detent. or something else maybe just about. something little bit bigger that it was. What stopped the war at this time what.

will stop War at this time I don't know. but I don't believe somehow in the deals. between politician right now I don't. believe it. somehow in Europe is there I mean you're. in Europe I guess you're not in Europe. anymore um but do you think the rest of. the world understands how close we are. to nuclear war I don't know I think uh. it's like in this movie don't look up. something happening something think. coming closer but so many other more.

interesting things hates a fundraiser. hates some other interesting stories. happening why to concentrate on such big. issues but in Europe I think uh. understanding of the. situation growing What's China's role in. all this hard to say but I think uh. China behav like very responsible power. trying to uh basically. say everyone please calm down please. calm down how how strong what China.

really can do about it that's another. question President Nixon went to China. famously 50 years ago in probably a lot. of objectives but the main objective was. to solidify the split between Russia and. China because you don't want them to. align against you of course if you're. the United States in one day that seems. to have changed is the Russia China. Alliance. strong is it enduring is it you know for.

the next 100 years will those two. countries be in an alliance do you think. it's a country with a huge uh trade uh. compared to size of our economy it's a. countries with which very long uh land. border so China it's definitely growing. world superpower uh probably only two. superpowers now we can really count so. yes of course so Russia and China would. have uh strong cor relation I hope there. will is there any chance in our.

lifetimes that Russia and the United. States have any kind of reasonable non. antagonistic. relationship we should well I agree we. should it's no any reason it's no. fundamental reason why it should be. otherwise neither with United States. Russia not with Russia in Europe I don't. see any reason why it should be. otherwise what would happen if you tried. to come to the United States if I will. come to United States I don't know I. would not get a Visa so how I can come.

if you went to a European country or. Australia same yes do you think you. might be arrested I don't think so I. would simply not allow to come there why. to arrest me I did not done nothing. wrong how many countries are you banned. from. visiting European Union UK. Switzerland Canada United States New. Zealand Australia that's it Japan. Japan to be honest I'm not sure about.

Japan I need to. check how so since you live outside what. we think of as the west and Japan kind. of is part of the West in a way um it. has American troops on its soil how do. you see the world changing now that. you've been forced outside the old world. into the emerging world where are the. new where the freest places in the world. where's the power. coalescing I think world just a good. nice now it's unclear where and what. will happen.

where definitely China is growing with. Incredible speed I spent quite a lot of. time on China lately and it's. amazing in what. way like when you see what they done and. you compare what was on the same places. 10 years ago so you see the difference. uh my private Foundation charity. Foundation support uh kids talented kids. uh in different are areas one of our. project we support chemical let's say.

competition between kids from different. countries students so this year we hold. this event in Shen in China I remember. the city 25 years ago and I saw the city. now it's. unbelievable there's an emphasis I. noticed on building in China in making. things whereas the emphasis in the west. seems to be on banking. what's the difference between a society. that builds things and a society that.

lends money and. interest I mean at the end of the day. both Society trying to resolve the same. issue to make people in this country to. feel better yes so there are many ways. which lead to the top of the mountain. one Society going One Direction Another. going another Direction hard to say. what's better which is a stronger. Society American America of course. why democracy. yes good history of democracy rule of.

law. Traditions do you think that and I agree. with you completely I strongly believe. in democracy and of course rule of law. but I wonder what the lesson the rest of. the world is taking from the last couple. of years I mean do you think there will. be other countries that want to sign on. to the Democratic. project it's very difficult to say what. democratic project is uh but uh I mean. we are going through the per period of. time when dominance of one super power. of United States it's it will not be it.

will not be in future like it was before. for sure China done a great incredible. job and we will see at least two. superpowers which will uh in one way or. another organize world affairs going. forward at the same time we see a number. of the countries who will become strong. Regional leaders so we're going to. completely different arrangement of the. world world which is you can call it. multipolar so but the world which is. this completely different Dynamic that's. where we are moving now for my.

understanding and what does it look like. in say 10 years what are the so I. imagine it's the English speaking. countries. Europe maybe Latin America maybe not and. then everybody. else again it's very hard to say so. let's assume that situation which we are. talking about this escalation level will. not be crossed let's assume that some a. miracle will happen which will bring to. the deescalation it slowly slowly New. Order will start to emerge so how.

situation will develop in this scenario. hard to say there are bad scenario and. good scenario bad scenario it's uh again. to come back to the cycle of the Cold. War basically to come back 40 years ago. where there are couple blocks let's say. United States one side uh China from. Another Side couple countries which. trying to I mean do something. independently little bit so something. like this that's a dangerous world for. my understanding because it will be just.

repetition of something what we already. seen so competition where there are only. two polers couple steps after can lead. to nothing else but to the very. difficult confrontations very difficult. fight for the different resources for. access to this and this that's for my. understanding a situation which not very. sustainable to put it this way so uh if. exist an scenario if exist scenario. where uh something else may happen.

perhaps so what it can be it means. should be possibility for some other. countries uh to basically work with the. both sides to work with One S per power. and for another super power to to work. it means to have security arrangements. to have understanding to have investment. from the both sides to have trade with. both side and if such countries such. actors will be basically more and more. of them will be form in the world that's.

for my understanding what can make World. more solid more stable more sustainable. so how to make sure that we did not come. to competition where either you are with. us or you our enemy but how to come the. situation when acceptance of the. abilities of countries to don't be. neither in one side not on another side. uh conceived. basically treat it like like something. good like something what's in the. interest of stability of the system I'm.

sorry maybe my English not so well and. maybe I'm not delivering I follow I'm. following every word let me ask you the. the stated objective I don't know. officially but certainly policy makers. and lawmakers say it is to kill Putin or. knock him out of his position to get rid. of. Putin I know you don't live in Russia. and you you don't know Putin but asone. who knows the country what would happen. if Putin disappeared tomorrow firstly I. live in the country and I consider.

myself Russian and uh so it's not. correct say that I'm not living in the. country oh you're not okay great yeah so. for last three years I spent in Russia. more time than any other countries. that's changed a lot so what would. happen if Putin disappeared tomorrow. what would happen to Russia it's such a. big complicated country and it seems. like whatever you think of Putin he. holds it. together house house any type of the it. feel level of the uncertainty like in. any system which is basically very.

centralized and Russia became very. centralized system in the uh last decade. or so yes so uh any uh unexpected. changes only will increase FS so chaos. yes so where exactly this increase of. the chaos will lead that is again very. much depends of many other situation. during this particular time but I think. it's very bad scenario for and I don't. even want to see think about it oh that. bad I mean it seems that way as a total.

Outsider if you have this en the biggest. country in the world with very. complicated demographic mix and you know. a lot of different parts of the country. don't have that much in common with each. other it seems like with a lot of. nuclear weapons that could be bad for. the. world CH it's in chaos sorry chaos chaos. yeah chaos it's very dangerous weapon so. when this weapon apply create. instability in the system when chaos was. apply let's say in Afghanistan or in.

Iraq or in Yugoslavia 30 years ago how. long it took before stability was. brought to the same places so in. situation like Russia any type of the. chaos I don't think firstly uh system. will be destroyed by the chaos because. Russia Russian people Russia Society. already came through a very different. period of time in the 90s where it was a. lot of Chaos and Society receive kind of. the vaccination against against this.

type of the disease they had chaos they. don't want it again exactly so that's. why I'm pretty sure uh what will happen. if more chaos will appear in the system. our system will react with a more. centralization with more concentration. of the power with a less Freedom that's. what will happen and what but is it good. or bad I think it's very bad for the. Russia and very bad for the rest of the. world because when system becoming more. concentrated on defending itself when it.

see dangerous everywhere instead of the. opportunities even if danger not exist. they will appear and we will follow and. we will come to next conf a little bit. later so what happens to Ukraine since. you are in some sense in the agriculture. business and that's a I mean I know you. know a lot about Ukraine I think do you. ever Ukrainian parent uh my mother is. Ukrainian yes sure familiar with Ukraine. um zinsky has apparently I heard from a. Ukrainian two days ago um backed a new.

law that will allow foreigners to to buy. own own property in Ukraine it does feel. like maybe the effect of this war is you. know foreign companies buying a lot of. Ukrainian land and moving a new. population in maybe that's just a dark. guess what do you think the future looks. like for. Ukraine it's a tragedy what happens. there that's exactly situation when. country became a stage for competition. with outside power. so that's exactly what not any other so.

uh mayen it was a chance that the same. scenario could happen before in Georgia. since God it did not happen it was. possibility the same scenario could. happen before in belarussia probably in. Kazakhstan now Armenia living through. the most serious no on the period. similar to this so it's very dangerous. when country becoming uh a competition. rink uh between superow powers between. even Regional power and Global power so.

that is what happening there so that's. example which is very very bad and such. example unfortunately exist not only in. this ex Soviet sphere such examples we. can see elsewhere so for example take. the Horn of Africa so you see a conflict. in the Sudan so more people were killed. or injured in Sudan then Ukraine and. Gaza combin how often do you speak about. it never that's a that's disturbing. question of course so what as soon as. competition starting to happen like this.

uh that's a most that's the worst. scenario for any country to be in so. that is what happened with Ukraine. hopefully other countries will look an. example and try to don't be there that's. why I think as model it's much more. positive it's model when country not. trying to be one side or another side. not trying to uh find which house it's. better to compete uh in the competition. where they have nothing to gain so I.

think the best way for such countries. it's try to find the balance and to be. good with everyone so that is I think. much better way I want to ask you about. climate and the response to climate. change so I live in a place that had. glaciers 15,000 years ago and it's very. obvious from the landscape as it is in. many parts of the world so from my. perspective there has very obviously. been radical climate change that has. nothing to do with human behavior. and yet my government and most western. governments fact World governments in.

general all agree that climate change is. caused by human. behavior and we need to stop climate. change by changing human behavior in. ways that will kill humans. um you're in the very closely connected. to Agriculture and watch World politics. carefully what's your view of what CL. causes climate change I don't think it's. so important to be to tell the TRU I. think uh more important it's fact uh the. temperature of the surface of the planet. changing that's true that's a matter of.

fact yes so uh it's also true and very. possible that number of the dangerous uh. anomalies nature anomalies will increase. uh like like consequence of the warming. of the surface of the planet yes so. intensity of hurricanes uh more floods. more DRS so this kind of the things will. increase it's very possible very. possible they will bring more damage. material damage to the property or. damage to the way of the Living for the.

people that's all nice that's all. understandable so but I think what's. wrong if from the these facts we jumping. to the question and starting to discuss. who is guilty who's guilty that is what. is I think very wrong because of course. it's more natural way to start. discussion from this we because we all. following certain type of the thinking. which is maybe it's coming from really. how you said before from religious. perspective or whatever because it's.

always the same Circle firstly exist a. sin somebody done something bad then. exist punishment something bad happen. because somebody done sin then exist how. you say it in English you recognize. basically you admit that you call you. repent or atone yeah so that is next. stage no and then after only after. basically you can come back to the. paradise or whatever people call it so. that is more L the same pattern in the. same pattern when you speak uh somehow.

distract from the issue on the table. because what is the issue issue is how. to deal with a problem so instead of the. question how to deal with a problem you. suddenly start to think how to deal with. the person who caused the problem that's. I think that's a problem that's what I. mean I think you're exactly right well. as as a matter of fact okay so if you. assume that CO2 emissions Drive climate. change which is an assumption I don't. think I we've proven that but that's. everyone's.

assumption what percentage of CO2. emissions come from people and human. behavior as opposed to Natural phenon. okay so let's look on it from the. different perspective then if if I may. so firstly I think it's not important. who calls the problem so the same answer. goes to everything in the climate change. I don't think it's important who calls. it it's a question is we need to address. it all right so let's start it from. there let's start to address the problem. instead of the look for person who did. it by the way the same pattern goes. about everything in maybe in some.

conflicts instead of the looking. who I understand about casting blame I. think you're absolutely right and it. does become a political vehicle to. punish your enemies and people who don't. vote for you it's clearly what's. happening but you also can't solve a. problem if you don't know its source if. you don't know why it's happening how. can you fix it okay so how you can fix. it so in the case of the climate I think. it's better to start from the facts. normally there are two type of the. people people who two kind of the people.

people who like to learn and people who. like to believe so I think in this type. of the question we need to concentrate. more on learning on understanding rather. rather believes so coming back to the. learning so surface of our planet. receive radiation from the Sun. approximately I don't know 340 megawatts. per square meter so that is what what. happening watt sorry not megawatt of. course after that that is heating the. source of our planet but part of this.

heat it's reflected it's going back to. the space in case if you don't have. atmosphere what happen so temperature of. our planet will be perhaps 35 degrees. lower than it is now so uh why it's not. lower because we have atmosphere what is. atmosphere inside of our atmosphere. there are certain gases which we call. greenhouse gases major of them it's. water vapor second it's CO2 then mean. then a so what this gazes do they. reflect heat back to the surface about.

three three quarter of the heat it's. reflected it's going back to the surface. so we experience kind of infrared sound. effect when. basically firstly directs sun exposure. and after that reflected heat waves. coming so that's how it works so why I'm. explaining of this okay so let's imagine. we not looking home to blame for the. problem but in reality we are just. trying to put temperature a little bit.

down let's say a degree or two down we. are trying to find this knobs how you. call it on the thermostat so to turn. them down and make temperature little. bit lower so what you normally would. consider so question number one you want. to increase reflection of the heat from. the surface of the planet wouldn't you. so that will be first question that what. inide they call albo so it's a ability. of the surface to. reflect waves coming on the surface ala.

so white color basically if you have a. mirror you Al bet it's one if you have a. completely dark something you Al bet. it's zero everything else goes in the. middle so if you want to that surface. hit it less what you do you increase ala. step number one step number two what you. want to do you want to decrease. reflection in the atmosphere. which is going back to the. surface in other words you want to.

decrease a concentration of the. greenhouse gases atmosphere that's two. so the heat can escape then he will not. go back but will escape so that's. actually two action which we wanted to. take are they any difference no because. it doesn't matter either you uh. basically send more out of the. surface or you allow less to come back. back to the surface it works in the same. direction you want to address this all. now one more fact to add here so when.

we're talking about greenhouse gases so. uh another just numbers so our planet. emit about. 820 gatons of equivalent of CO2 per year. humans emit about 54 gatons out of this. 820 so it's about 6% so that is input of. the human greenhouse gases. emission toal 6% of the total yeah. that's why uh if you look on all of it. combined it's really unexplainable no I.

mean from The Logical perspective why. all attention given not to the changing. of the Ala of the world of the surface. of our planet and or not to the. addressing other 94% of the emission. which is coming from the nature but why. all attention concentrated on this 6% of. of total that's very difficult to. explain from The Logical perspective so. that's what beginning after that.

naturally question number two can be. asked is it possible to address either. remaining 94% of GRE house gases or what. does it really means to change ala of. the surface Is it feasible what what. does it means of course it's feasible so. what means to change uh natural emission. this 94% PL Forest that's about it uh so. mid it's about this uh deal with the uh.

permafrost which is covering big uh. storages of the carbon in the uh. underneath it's also to deal with the. CO2 so uh which is tra there so there. are different ways to affect uh natural. cast emissions that calls natural based. Solutions exist estimations and numbers. which show the potential of it it's. about 18 gatons 20 gatons so numbers. like this so it's more or less about.

half of the anagan emissions can be much. more cheaply uh mitigated by natural. based solution so that's Story number. one story number two about aleda I'm. sorry I'm going little bit may I ask you. just pause question so planting Forest. is number one it's one it's one of the. options in the natural based solution. planting Forest it's one of the options. that seems easy cheap it creates Beauty. it helps everybody to plant Forest why.

why is that being done uh yes it's done. but not on the very big scale where is. it being done in many places in the. world uh planting of the forest. Happening Now China by the way the. biggest place where about 250 million. tons of the emissions now absorbed by. the forest plant in China during last 20. years why isn't it being done in more. places uh we'll come to this I promise. okay we will come to I like that idea so. much that I had had to pause but there.

are but Forest it's only one of the. possible solutions there are many others. there are many others Forest it's one of. them but once again so there are. opportunities to to react on the. greenhouse emission from the natural. sources that's Story number one second. big story which is uh unlike uh let's. say natural based solution almost not. used at all almost not used today at all. that's to affect ala it means uh to. affect uh how much energy basically.

reflected out of the surface of the. planet what does it means uh for example. to paint roof whites that means change. ala it was black become white so or to. change color of the roads or for example. to plant certain types of the uh of the. grass of midow or something like this I. give you numbers so typical uh let's say. gas power plant in Texas will produce. maybe 2.5 million ton of CO2 per year so.

in order to absorb it by Ala it will. need to. be I would say 15,000 hectares you need. to change ala for 004 I'm sorry for. technical details it's not very much so. for example when you plant in the black. so cotton it increase Aletta about five. times bigger so so that's how you can. compensate one by another well you can. fight climate change by planting cotton. it's very good it's very good instrument. to change ala of the surface it's one of.

many you can plant you can paint surface. of the buildings you can uh I don't know. do certain techniques which allow ice to. melt little bit later because when it's. ice it's kind of mirror so ala of the. ice it's very high it's reflect a lot. and when ice for example melting during. summer period of time what's happening. it's uh basically what is underneath ice. becoming exposed to the atmosphere and.

that is usually black color so ala it's. increasing so if you can find solution. which allow ice to melt little bit for. the shorter period of time in Arctic. that's also very effective way you. mention painting the roads white what's. wrong about it well I never thought of. that or or painting the roofs when it's. very hot what you do on the street. you're trying to wear white of course. it's very cold you're trying to wear. black why because black make you warmer. white reflect Sun same goes about any.

other things but amazing thing is that. it's uh very simple very cheap and. basically numbers which is can be. achieved by this are comparable to the. what we are doing now with anthropogene. emission like I said Tex us uh to offset. emission d by the typical power plant. gas power plant you need. 15,000 hectares maybe 10,000 of hectares. will do so one versus another so what.

I'm trying to say that there are calls. there is a problem change of the. temperature there is a desire to do it. so exist very strange uh way how we deal. with this today we found someone whom to. blame human in this case and trying to. reduce what humans do but exist a number. of other options what is the good news. you can do something with Al and you can. do something with number of the natural.

based Solutions and for my understanding. that we don't have other way forward in. case if you're really serious about this. question I you're a private sector. businessman I'm around politicians a lot. so it's obvious to me why we're pursuing. the less effective way which is that it. gives political leaders more control. over their. populations if I paint every house roof. white or if I plant cotton rather than. some other crop it doesn't give me any.

more power but if I control what kind of. appliances people use or if I close down. coal plants and replace them with. ineffective means of electricity. generation then I'm more powerful. doesn't that this isn't that the answer. to the question this partially an answer. this partially an answer in reality uh I. think uh if you go back little bit to. the history how happen that suddenly uh. we like Humanity start to concentrate on. this climate change uh climate change.

story actually it started I would say in. end of the 80s so it started maybe uh. from the speech of the Prime Minister of. England Margaret Teter which he. delivered in 1989 in the United Nation. so what was the moment at that time. basically it was a moment when Vault. seems to move away from the previous big. danger from the nuclear war that's so. was a moment of kind of reorganization. of the world and that was exactly idea.

of her speech so she said that okay now. when one problem pass we have ability to. concentrate on another on dealing with. the climate change it's always good to. have something what your finds against. don't you think so yes so that was the. beginning of the story after that three. years after that in Rio de janeira. convention uh was signed in the day of. the earth convention was signed. convention which start to put in place. formal mechanism of combating uh. possible climate climate change. implication Etc there are many.

strategies which can be apply in order. to to move forward with this task but at. this moment a particular strategy was. chosen strategy which was concentrating. on killing fossil fuels or reducing. dependence from the fossil fuels in. different industrial processes so that. was a moment when it's happened so. question is why it's happened at that. time exactly. in in this way uh I think it's. uh it's happened because at this moment.

of time uh International institution. which were concerned with this issue. United Nation and others were basically. uh dominated exclusively by the Western. uh let's say uh Western influence at. this moment of time they were basically. because it was not other powers in the. world at this moment of time so how some. people call it it was end of the history. end of the history moment so it was one. power and all institution in one way or.

another basically move towards goals. more let's say beneficial for this power. at this moment of time so why Western. countries uh took away uh of the. combating climate change through this. specific mechanism through the combating. of the dependency on the fossil fuels or. dependency of the industrial processes. from the fossil fuels. very simple because it was two benefits. benefit number one to reduce dependence.

of energy imported from the far away. places Yes Energy security okay so. that's a good reason it's a pretty good. reason and second reason was that uh uh. new technological uh new technologies. which is needed in order to produce. energy not from the fossil fuels but. let's say from renewable and other. sources or new industrial processes. which need to be developed to do other. job without using fossil fuels basically. country who the idea was that country.

who will start to do it first will'll. get a technological advantage and we. create not only uh good something good. for their own economy but later will be. able to uh provide the same solution to. other countries and like this maintain. technological leadership so that was a. logic so uh why basically uh directions. move was moveed towards this think about. if you're talking about PL planting of. the trees it's nice but where to plant. it in Russia in Brazil somewhere in.

Africa so definitely not in Europe so. because not so much space available. which basically not used for other. purposes for agriculture other. productive purposes so that's why idea. moved towards this direction also it was. more easier to let's say to sell to the. voters because uh uh Investments done at. your home uh working places created at. your home but at the same time you're. kind of fighting Global problem in this.

in this situation climate change it's. very specific story because we have one. atmosphere for all the planet it's very. unusual compared with other problems if. you want to give people access to the. water you need to do something where. these people live if you wanted to do. something with the climate change you. can do investment in your own territory. benefiting your industry and your. taxpayers yeah and but still fighting. Global good so this is kind of a. symmetry exist that's the idea and.

that's how it's been sold but in effect. the you know climate policy has reduced. the standard of living of people in the. United States and Europe it's made. energy more expensive it's made them. poorer actually what happened happen. exactly what it should happen so uh by. applying something what is relatively. expensive slowly slowly local industry. start to be not very competitive like. result working places and production. start to shift away to the countries.

where it's more competitive yes more. competitive to do so like result uh that. is what really happened so who is leader. today in terms of the solar panels in. the wind basically of course China. electric cars so that's what happened so. basically Western countries started. Trend with. decarbonization trying to achieve one. result but in reality another result was. achieved on the no during the same. period of time what Western countries do.

today uh first of all I will tell about. Europe because they in Forefront of of. all of these processes so okay domestic. industry become not competitive so what. you do so firstly you try to subsidize. them using basically different budget. money okay but then your competitor. starting to do the same I'm talking. about China or other countries or United. States like famous inflation reduction. Act of the President Biden which is. bringing a lot of money to subsidize.

renewable energy so we start competition. of this okay one story but poor. countries cannot compete they don't have. money for this second what Europeans. doing and what will happen in another. countries as well you start to create a. barrier for the goods which is produced. in other part of the world but which. should enter your territory meaning if. carbon reduction in your domestic Place. cost I don't know what it cost today. maybe 80 and if some producer produce.

Goods in another place of the world. where carbon reduction cost zero yeah so. his products when they're coming to the. Europe uh he will need to pay Duty it's. So-Cal CM mechanism they will need to. pay duties to compensate the cost. for difference with the cost with. European producers in other words the. story is pushed for other countries uh. to to to follow the same agenda so. that's basically where we are step.

number one it was logical to choose from. the perspective of the Western countries. to choose the course on the certain. moment of time so number two it did not. brought them to many good because. basically uh simply they start to kill. the industries which start to move to. another place yes I notic now they're. starting to do step number three trying. to to be protective to create certain. type of the trade barriers based on the. different carbon prices so that's where.

we are going everything get nice only it. has nothing to do with the. climate has I mean if you're focusing on. reducing the activity that produces only. 6% of greenhouse gases then I mean. you're probably not going to have a big. effect on global climate right no what. we know that whatever we do temperature. keep Rising yeah concentration of. greenhouse gases in atmosphere it's keep. Rising. Rising but at the same time uh when we. read numbers of the resources allocated.

towards fight with the human pollutions. what we see today numbers it's about5. trillions dollar annually in order for. the world to be on the trajectory till. 2030 where we kind trying to be it's. require about5 trillions doll to be. spent annually for this it's roughly 5%. of the world GDP yeah it's comparable. with the numbers which spent for all. defense glob it's about 3.5 trillions. for example so of course these resources.

are not easily available and especially. they're not easily available in no. countries which don't have financial. means to attract this money from the. market or or don't have strong budgets. or other possibilities so like result. what happened uh ability of the humanity. to react on other important issue was. greatly reduced United Nation counting. 17 uh sustainability development goals. like fight poetry access to electricity.

Etc so climate it's goal number 13 in. this list really number 13 so but this. goal allocate most of the resources and. that's a problem so what I'm trying to. say maybe on the certain stage it was. good idea that Western countries start. to follow particular way to combat. climate who cares if Rich guys want to. spend their money doing something good. for the world in their own territories. you can only say thank you nothing else. but now this story start to affect.

others very much more poor countries. countries who cannot really compete with. the Western countries in this type of. the arrangement and what it means it. means uh this policy more less clear now. for everyone it's not about climate. anymore it's about of something else. it's about business and clearly that can. concern I think just as an American is. that you know the country runs on. electricity on energy and the.

alternatives to hydrocarbons don't seem. like they work very well I mean how I. mean you're in business use a lot of. energy in your business could you run. the United States on Renewables will. that be possible anytime in the next. hundred years what would what would. happen if you tried to run the United. States on wind and. solar I mean uh price of energy will be. higher that's what will happen price of. energy will be higher so uh it will be.

much higher than we do have now so is it. good or not it's very much depends what. will happen in other countries because. by itself uh it's important if American. industry will be competitive with this. prices because if it's competitive with. this prices market will adjust itself. and at the end of the day it will be. good for American people rather than bad. but I don't think as countries will. follow this agenda agenda where just uh. all basically uh added profit in the.

supply chain staying in few particular. places in the world I think this type of. the world order it's not sustainable and. uh unlikely it will be possible to. maintain it for very long time and also. to don't forget one thing so all of this. done know in order to fight climate. change what I'm trying to say what all. of these Arrangements have nothing to do. with with the fighting climate they have. something to do in order to justify. certain type of the trading policies.

invest plus can I ask you one last. question about energy before I get into. the solutions that you think would. actually work um and that's AI it seems. to you know server Farms are a massive. draw of energy and AI seems to as. projected be one of the biggest. consumers of electricity in the United. States if if so I mean doesn't that kind. of make the transition away from. hydrocarbons impossible how could how. could you power all that everything. possible if you have money is it.

reasonable to do everything what's. possible usually in life it's not good. point um I noticed that AI seems to be. exempt from climate. concerns like your car is bad but server. Farms are not bad yeah what did you mean. when you said specifically permafrost if. you wanted to reduce greenhouse gases. you would deal with permafrost what. would you do uh well do permafrost uh so. beneath the beneath the permafrost. usually there are organic matters so.

meaning some time ago it was forest. forest it was I don't know uh midow it. was something else and then glacia came. cover but what was there before remains. under so what's happening when Perma. Frost it's melting and it's melting now. by the way I should say is that average. temperature of our planet increase about. 1.5 degre that's more less number but. Arctic over what period I mean compare. with the pre-industrial level how you. say yeah but uh that's not distributed.

equally yeah so Arctic it's warming much. faster so temperature in the Arctic. increase maybe four five degrees on. average so so like result ice it's. melting peras throst is melting uh it. means during summer period of time exist. longer periods of times when what sits. beneath permafrost Organic Matter meet. that mosphere so what happened during. this period of time it's same what. happening with your Apple when you eat.

part of it and left it on the table it's. getting rusted how to say it yeah so. basically microbes start to work with. this organic matter and like result. emission of the greenhouse gas is. happening it starts to rot yeah so it's. basically is CO2 or if it's very wet. then it will be nh4 methane so that is. what happening so what what I'm saying. that more exposure uh for organic matter.

which is underneath Perma Frost uh. longer this exposure with atmosphere. more emissions coming out of there so. that is what's happening now so what are. the numbers actually it's strange but. numbers not well known now not so good. research exist in this area it's. accelerating now but for now we don't. have reliable numbers there are number. of publication but differences in. measurements very big but mostly. estimation will be about 7 8 gatons of. emissions in the let's say 10 period of.

time so numbers is like this uh it's. slightly bigger than United States. anthropogene emissions so basically it's. a significant numbers which is coming. from there so when we talk about natural. based Solution on the Perma Frost no if. I understood the question correct so. idea it's very simple so how you can. reduce time uh which uh organic matter. exposed to the atmosphere how you reduce. this time basically you need to keep.

surface cooler for a little bit longer. period of time that's what you need and. there are number of techniques how you. do it exist techniques which you. basically apply some things on top of. the ice and it melt much slower than it. will melt otherwise exist things which. include natural solutions for example. you can put animals in the certain. area and when then animals are walking. in this area they're pressuring snow and.

what means pressure of the snow so if. snow is uh let's say 3 m uh then on top. of the snow you will have temperature. maybe minus 40° but beneath you will. have I don't know minus5 it's kind of. blanket yes but if you pressure it then. uh basically uh temperature beneath the. snow will be much less like you walk in. on your I don't know Country House on. the let's say on some walk and you will. see that snow there will melt much later.

than we'll be exactly then we be snow. somewhere else exactly in fact you can. see the footsteps of course the ice. footsteps yes yeah so like result uh. temperature uh beneath the snow which. was pressed by The Animals will be lower. and like result exposure of the surface. uh to the atmosphere during summer time. will be shorter so no that's another. possible techniques so in reality these. techniques allowing to mitigate quite a.

lot in terms of the emissions what kind. of. animals I mean what kind of animals love. to live in this kind of environment. reindeer for example for example yeah so. many solution is anyone trying that yes. people trying people. trying and is there anybody to know. whether it works uh it definitely works. uh but again so natural based solution. it's a area where uh exist very many.

very many problems with accounting with. correct measurements and everything so. problem is that we don't have a system. which allow us objectively control flow. of the greenhouse gases to the. atmosphere and or or absorption them. from the from the where is the world's. permafrost 65% of Russia territory. permafrost Perma Frost Yukon big part of. the Canada Perma Frost and little bit in. Scandinavian countries those are the.

four big four big four but. 65% uh 65% of the Russian national. territory it's Perma Frost are the. Russians trying this uh trying to do it. no. why today basically why you will do. something what doesn't make sense for. you okay stepping backwards if uh. warming of the Planet it's good or bad. for Russia honestly speaking it's rather. good than bad for number of the reasons.

of course uh some areas will experience. maybe more complicated condition for. agriculture and everything but on. average our agriculture production will. move more North which will allow to grow. more rather than less in terms of the uh. ability because we are Northern country. so we spent lot of energy to allow. people to to to leave in this condition. so when temperature going up no again. you spend less so what I'm trying to say.

economically increase of the temperature. actually it's good in Russia if you take. it in combination of the factors so why. somebody will do something uh in case uh. it's good for him to do nothing that's. one question no it's possible but then. it should be some market for this so for. Russia it's good but for somebody it's. bad perhaps some ARR can be done when. somebody paying for the basically. decrease of certain emissions and use it.

against their country obligation or. something like this what I'm trying to. say so Market it's needed who makes. these decisions United Nation body uh. exist so-called Paris agreement uh and. exist a certain bureaucracy uh certain. bureaucracy which uh working like part. Secretariat of this agreement so today. uh today that is how it's organized so. today basically uh countries.

concentrated on reduction of anthrop. emissions but it's perfectly feasible. without changing anything in the Paris. agreement to uh organize two things. which is needed firstly to go to the. other solution natural based solution. with emission and actually to include. albera effects also in the consideration. like another possible option to. temperature on the planet so that can be. perfectly done like part of the Paris. agreement step number one and step.

number two we need a global market for. the carbon so when basically because. only Global Market can distribute. resources uh in the best possible way. for the when for the unit of economic. resource you can get uh more value in. this case valuates how many emission you. can cut so we need two things one. technological neutrality to don't. concentrate on the human guilt or but. try to do all what works regardless how.

you done it on nature of this human and. second what you need to do you need to. do a VA Market Paris agreement Envision. VA Market exist article 62 64 of the. Paris agreement but these articles are. blocked today and they're not. operational if you were to say to um you. know a leading spokesman for the climate. change agenda 2024 whether it was John. Cary or Al gorg Rea thunberg actually. what we need to do is put more. reindeer on the permafrost paint the.

roofs white and plant more forests how. do you think they would respond firstly. I'm not saying we need to do this or. this I think we need to do whatever yeah. whatever so Market should decide but if. you were to make the case you just made. on the basis of what emissions actually. are and what might I mean is there a. market for these ideas I guess is what. I'm asking. how I said uh Paris agreement it's a. creation of the certain historical.

period right so it was sold to many. countries at this time it was very. strongly supported by developing. countries of this time why for example. because developing countries didn't. obligation to cut the emissions like. part of this but they expected to. receive a lot of support in order to. following the agenda which didn't not. realize at the end so actually it's. realize but in a way that now you can. take money for something green but you. cannot take money for hospitals water or.

other things which is important for you. because it's a same money so what I'm. trying to say so uh basically uh. movements any case will move towards the. direction where anagan emission will not. be enough so that is happening any case. firstly because it's fighting just inag. emissions would not bring us where we. wanted to be and second because this. course creat so many uh uncertainties. and disproportion in the world that one. by one by one by one uh different.

players will find it that doesn't make. sense for them to be part in this. agreement that's what will happen that's. why what to say uh uh what to say here. so if time coming that this question. should be addressed seriously I mean. question of the fighting temperature of. the surface not question of fighting uh. of killing uh economic activity of the. guilty humans so if question really. starting to be addressed seriously then.

uh it take of course strong leader just. to say it what in this leader it's a. question when it will come but I'm. pretty sure it it will happen but right. now I mean there's no lawmaking. regulatory political body rational. enough to say what you just said is. there today uh this uh Paris agreement. process basically run by the bureaucracy. what how it works for example what I.

told you that article 6.2 and 64 it's. blocked that's a good example so by whom. they block by Europeans by European. Union so I explain why it's pretty. simple so price in the Europe today it's. 80 about 80 EUR per ton of CO2 reduction. so let's imagine we have a global market. where basically uh you don't need to. reduce emission just on the European. territory but when European company can.

basically buy reduction which happen in. the places where it's cheaper to do. let's imagine we're in this market what. will be price of such Global Market I. would say $30 will be my estimation so. it will be much less what will happen. with the countries which already exhaust. the opportunity to cut emission cheaply. and brought the economy on the situation. when price is 80. what let's imagine price tomorrow. collapse from 80 to $30 what will happen. then or crisis will happen huge.

financial crisis will happen because uh. who basically took risks that certain. investment will be paid back Banks or. governments so if price is going down so. uh basically many renewable sources. becoming not competitive compar with the. fossil fuel sources because this price. of $30 moving prices down what is the. result big big financial crisis so. that's why no from one side we are.

talking about how nice it's to fight. climate and from Another Side we are. blocking the best possible mechanism to. do it because they they' bet too much on. this exactly United States not in this. situation United States did not done. this. bet because it's more rationally run. system United States today basically. what is does it's subsidizing uh many. producers like part of the inflation. reduction act subsidizing producers.

giving money from the federal budget. towards companies which is cutting their. emissions very big money by the way $100. sometimes per ton of CO2 $801 for. certain application so why you need to. spend Federal money on something uh. which is like $100 if you can purchase. the same for about $10. somewhere else where for example in. African country why you're not. purchasing something what you can.

purchase for $10 and give jobs and. something to the African country but at. the same time why you sending gr money. there or basically help there but is it. make any. sense why do you think you said at the. outset that you think a lot of this is a. religious impulse or it follows a. religious template where you identify. the sin you find The Sinner you force. The Sinner to repent and then you get to. Paradise why do you think Western.

countries which are not religious have. chosen that rather than a scientific. approach to a scientific. problem I. mean. firstly climate was not the major issue. climate was a nice slogan to resolve. other issues like for example issue of. energy security or issue of the new. engine for the E economic growth so that. was logic number one now how you're.

asking question from other area cultural. question so how happen basically that. Society become so. much involved in the process of. punishing humans in this process I don't. know but what's interesting is I I. personally think energy security is a is. a valuable uh goal it's important but. the United States achieved and so after. 9111 you heard people say well these. countries are crazy we can't rely on. them they're driving our foreign policy.

we're getting all these wars because we. need their energy and then the fracking. Revolution happened in the United States. and we were energy secure with gas we. had more gas than we could we flare it. still so. um why didn't we just declare victory at. that point uh that's exactly my hope. because exist only one country in the. world who can actually change all of. this Paradigm in the climate agenda it. requires strong leadership and I see. only one country in reality who can. really do it and that's United States.

and why this reason can be because. exactly what you said so other. consideration like energy security and. Etc basically not a problem for United. States anymore so because it's not a. problem it's not objective reasons to. basically go against this trend you. remember president Trump went out of the. Paris agreement on his on his know when. he became a president he suspected that. Paris agreement it's not exactly about.

climate he suspected that it's kind of. the instrument to redistribute work. working places or investment between. different part of the world and perhaps. not for the benefit for the American. citizens perhaps yeah so time show that. basically his suspicion were very. correct we spoken some minutes ago about. achieve of China in terms of the. electric cars wind uh wind turbines or. solar panels so basically yes that was.

like this so after that when uh. President Biden came back to the White. House he reverse decision of. the president Trump and idea was of. course because it was Noble goal uh uh. still climate uh climate uh crisis need. to be addressed somehow so that that was. basically decision from Another Side so. that's where we are to be honest I don't. see uh why something cannot be done.

which achieve both result at the same. time which keep United States very much. engaged in the process of the global. climate agenda from one side being the. leader of the Paris agreement or any. other agreement which may come uh in in. it place but at the same time to propose. solution which is uh basically. beneficial for the whole system and. specifically for United States because. now in situation when United States it's.

not depends any more from the import of. energy as such I mean uh it's little bit. exported little bit important but total. balance it's good in United States so uh. it will be economically much better for. my understanding for American economic. like as whole to move to the direction. where it's not Market which is closed uh. in terms of the carbon Market but open. market where basically American. companies can do what they do and find a.

way how to deal with the emission in the. best economically possible way either. decrease it domestically or go and. purchase of sets produced in some other. places so do what American Business. always know to do the best adapt and see. better opportunities just but I I think. I guess my I I I agree with everything. you're saying. except I think that this is what we're. watching is less rational than you.

assume I think if you said to people. what we're going to do is increase the. number of trees and big mammals which. seems to me you know inherently good. they would say that's not enough. punishment for people they're not. suffering enough for their sins I I do. think that would be the reaction in the. west well what you know what good is. that it doesn't it doesn't hurt us. enough. do you sense. that what I can. say that require strong that require.

strong strong leaders to basically move. people towards solution rather than. towards looking who is guilty that's. required not only in the climate why are. there no strong leaders in the west. anymore because people follow public. opinion they follow what public wants so. they adapt what public wants strong. leader should translate some new senses. should translate Innovation should.

that's what leader means give new senses. and then make the people understand you. and like this you move forward bring the. people with you don't follow the people. exactly but the West has had leaders. like that through history it has none. now not one that I can see it's strange. when the entire West every leader of. every country is weak. it will happen it always. does What's China's thinking on actual. thinking on climate so Trump made the.

case that China is playing us they're. benefiting from this they don't care. about the climate global temperatures. they care about in industrial capacity. they care about their economy and. they're using the Paris Accords to help. them to help their economy what is their. thinking on climate do you think I think. uh they behave like responsible Global. power and today actually China in more. or less same situation where Europe was. some time ago basically energy security.

also a big issue for China because a lot. of energy imported and also domestic. production of energy it's mostly coal in. China and what's happening with the coal. production depth of the shafts and. everything increasing because most. profitable reserves getting exhausted. that's why energy security getting issue. for China so that's why for them to. build more and more Renewables it make. perfect sense from their perspective. because they deal with two problems not.

only with the climate so and that's. perfectly competitive how to say it's. perfectly align with what Western. countries do today so for them. Renewables it's needed for them energy. transition it's needed because firstly. they can they need it for their energy. security and second they're really able. to create new Industries in in. the very fast and very organized matter. because the system allowed to. concentrate resources on strategic goals.

maybe faster than normal market economy. would do so they can establish group of. the industries call them Champions. support these industries by all. government means and perhaps these. industries can take Global leading. position much faster that is what. happening in China so yes the insight of. this paradigma of the fighting of the. fossil fuels yes they have their reason. why it works for them but at the same.

time uh China also doing a lot today. it's the biggest actually contributor to. Natural based projects how I said they. plant most of the trees than other. countries did in order to offset. emissions the Chinese company looking on. the other markets in order to do. projects they offset their home. emissions so I think they're doing. pretty well pretty logical from there. from there and from does coal have a. future will people be burning coal in 50. years I think so I think so because.

again it's nothing bad uh to use any. fossil fuels especially if you can uh. offset emissions out of it I would say. that emissions from the. coal again but maybe I even need to step. back one step one step before so people. sometimes mix between ecology and. climate so so ecology it's something. what pollute it's I don't know do the. particul some partic something of this. can mod coal power plants deal with.

these questions yes yes yes modern coal. power plants don't produce black smoke. and they don't uh destroy nature like. previous generation of coal power plants. used to do before so answering on these. questions yes ecology can be basically. resolved question number one another. question it's misss so let's imagine. that Global price is $20 in this case. coal will fly forever if the global.

price will be I don't know 30. $40 that will create little bit. different scenario so in reality it's. nothing wrong to emit when you produce. something be it from the natural gas or. from the coal or whatever as long as you. can offset and if price of offset is low. no it gives particular types of the. fossil fuels longer future then it will. be in different. scenario what about natural gas I mean. the emissions from natural gas are much. lower.

correct also it's not black and white so. natural gas it's nh4 it's methane yes so. methane and CO2 it's two different uh. two different greenhouse gases so. question is uh how you compare let's say. harm caused by one greenhouse gas versus. harm caused by another greenhouse gas it. sounds like a simple question but. actually it's not why because molecular. of CO2 when it sits in atmosphere your. half lifetime will be much longer than.

half lifetime of the molecular of. methane so what it means it means you. have 100 molecular of methane in the. atmosphere 7 years after it will be 50. moleculars remains in atmosphere Vis AAL. basically it will take let's say 100. years before half life will be achiev. something about 100 years that's why you. don't have a clear answer on uh how. harmful it's one molecular versus. another molecular so how you can answer. now on this question so if you take.

period of time let's say 100 years today. number it's 32 it means one molecular of. methane more harmful in terms of the. global warming than one molecule of CO2. 32 times but it's on the period of time. 100 years but if you take not 100 years. but 30 years numbers will be very. different number it's 83 so during so. during this period of time a molecule of. methane more harmful than molecule of. CO2 on the another number you understand.

the logic because half life it's very. different that's why uh so if price if. basically you use ratio 32 on the 100. years time and if your goal is to. equalize two harms on the 100 years term. then most of the uh basically power. plant which is running on the gas will. be better than and power plant running. on coal Coal will die but if you're. trying to uh Orient uh basically on the.

shorter period of time like 30 years. what for example that is something what. interesting to you opposite will be the. true that's why it's not so simple. question well given how hard it is to. measure even something that. straightforward it seems straightforward. how how do we know what global. temperatures are. doing approximately approximately so. there are basically this measure it's. pretty good right now so that you can do. you have satellites you have a certain.

network of the things in the oceans is. sea level rising apparently. so it's what looks like looks like in. some places rising in some places uh. getting probably little bit less but on. average in the planet definitely Rising. you hear that this is going to unleash a. series of catastrophes on Humanity do. you believe.

that exist certain reverse Loops so and. we don't understand how exactly they. will work so when uh surface of the. planet it's heating for example ice it's. melting when ice it's melting more. emissions coming underneath of this ice. if it's permafrost or for example more. water vapor coming in in case if it was. ice on top of the oceans that increase. the effect of the uh heating once again.

because all of the Gaz is coming to. Atmosphere so certain Loops exist exist. other Loops in the climate system so. where is a big danger seats uh danger is. we don't really know uh system it's so. complicated the total balance in the. atmosphere it's so complicated that we. we don't really know what can be what. they call Tipping Point a moment when. system will start to behave uh. abnormally when number of the. events not good events will start to. increase faster than it's doing now so.

we don't know it for sure we don't know. it for sure so again there are people. who believe and there are people who. learn yeah so of course more complex. question you go amount of Believers. becoming no much bigger than amount of. the Learners because depends on can I. ask you a question why why not just ad. MIT that why why don't leaders just say. there are some things we don't. understand they're very complex and. there are too many variables and we. don't really know where this is going. but we're concerned why not just be.

straightforward with the with the global. population rather than predicting in a. in a way that's impossible to really. know what's going to. happen Simplicity people learn to do. very simple messages and to admit that. you don't know something doesn't sounds. like very strong message right. yes but it is doesn't it don't you. discredit yourself it's hard to believe. you when you lie a. lot and it does have a counterproductive.

effect I mean if they're telling me that. you know the Maldives won't. exist you know what I mean it's like I. but they still exist I I just don't. believe you after a while don't they. destroy their credibility talking like. that apparently not you see wit still. working and people still think that uh. basically uh what they it make perfect. sense so la last question which I I. don't I really don't understand but um. climate protesters in Europe have been.

destroying in Renaissance paintings no. no Modern Art but all Christian art uh. in the name of ending climate change how. do you get from a concern about global. temperatures to destroying art what is. that it's a way to express yourself why. certain people in the certain moment of. change choosing to express themselves in. this way how know that's a realm of. Another Science I'm not specialist in. psychiatric or other type of other types.

of the but you'll admit there's. something very deep going on. here when there are too many changes. happening in the very short period of. time it's increase uh basically stress. in the humans when stress in the humans. increase the stress going to very. different manifestation. so maybe it's not so bad that global. warming chosen like big enemy which we.

need to fight just little bit change the. angle do you think that not hum but. Waring are we beginning a change period. or we in the middle of it or we coming. to the end of a change period globally. we are starting we're starting we are. starting yeah we are starting most. dangerous time. sh on that happy note Andre malchenko. thank you thank. [Applause]. [Music]. thanks for watching our YouTube channel. we hope you'll subscribe to it and by.

the way you can hit the little Bell on. there and get notifications every time. we produce a video we hope you'll do. that also.