Andrew Isker: The Truth About Revelation, and Leftist States Driving Out Christians

So, Andrew, thank you for doing. this. So, you're so controversial. I love that. Yeah, married man with six kids who. pays his taxes, you're still. controversial. Controversial would be not paying. your credit card bill and. putting the banks out of business, convincing other people to do the. same, not paying their federal. taxes, forcing the US. government to pay attention to its. own citizens. You're doing none of. that, so as far as I'm concerned, you're a non-controversal. law-abiding man, but you are doing. one thing that's pretty wild, which. is... participating in the building of a.

new town, it sounds almost. like a Christian utopian experiment. in Tennessee, but I don't really. know. Can you tell me what it is and. why you're doing it? Um, it's not quite that. It's not the Oneida community? Yeah, yeah, we're not building, you. know, some kind of Anabaptist. community. Okay, you're not the shakers. No.

No, really, it's. a company, you know, Ridge Runner is purchasing. land and sort of. facilitating a lot. of things. Like, you're familiar. with the big sort, where people. are leaving blue states. to go to red states and things like. that, where it's.

along those lines, where people were. leaving. Like, I left Minnesota, a very blue state, everyone's now. familiar with our governor. in that state, Tim Walz. Don't hire him to babysit no, I. would not he would be the last. person. And and you know, so we. wanted to leave there many people. want to leave places like that my my. friend CJ left, California Gavin. Newsom stayed to come to Tennessee. and And so. it's it's a platform to to.

be able to you know draw all of. your your friends together It's like. well, we can kind of live anywhere. Why don't we why don't? We all live in them? the same kind of place and bring our. families, bring our businesses, and build things together. So it's sort of. a platform for. drawing people that are. spread out all throughout the. country and can leave these places. that are not great, you know, living. in large cities. or suburbs where they're just.

totally disconnected and. really isolated, alienated from normal life, and you can have the. American small town. experience once again. So sad to hear you say that about. Minnesota as a Scandinavian. I always thought of it, was told, you know, it's like where all the Swedes. are and it's kind of, you know, lots. of Saunas and, you. know, red cheek children and. it is clean and reasonable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not the case anymore.

Why did you leave there? You know, for us, it was-. Are you from there? From there, yeah. Born and raised in Waseca, Minnesota. My children were. the sixth generation of our family. that lived in that town. Oh, gosh. And- In the town? In that town, yeah, in the. town of Waseka. Are your ancestors buried there? Yeah, there's six generations. that are buried there. Even one of. my own children that passed. um that you know.

all they're like we lived. a couple blocks away from the. cemetery where all of my. ancestors were buried. Oh gosh. Oh, that's very heavy. place like that. Yes. And it was, you know, after the 2022 election, where the Democrats took control. of the. the state senate finally, and Tim. Walz could do whatever he. wanted to do. He, the first thing he. passed was in the wake of.

the Dobbs decision, full, full abortion. allowance, even up to birth, Like, you know, there were the stories. during the election about you know, even like post-birth abortions that. took place in Minnesota. I went to the state Capitol. and spoke to. the first committee when that bill. was being heard. And I mean, maybe later. your guys can pull up that video, but I just went there and said like, hey, you think you won an election. You think you can do this and just.

murder children, but God is not mocked. Like he's... he's going to come with vengeance. about what you're doing. And of course they, yeah, they, they're like all these, you. know, 60 year old liberal. ladies senators here are looking at. me, scoffing at me and just staring. daggers at me. And hating what I'm saying. Uh, how, how dare he cut this. Christian Nationalists come here. Lots of luck to them. Yeah. And so that's the first bill that. they passed. The second bill that. they passed, and these are the first. two legislative priorities that they.

had. The second one was. a trans rights. bill, which allowed. the state to. take your child out of their. custody or your parents'. custody if you opposed. a transition. And my oldest child. is 12. A minor child. Minor child, yeah. My oldest son, he's 12 years. old. He has autism. We homeschool all the rest of our. children, but we don't have the. resources to be able to educate.

him with his autism. And so he goes to a special ed. And I'm well aware, especially. if you see the things that happened. in 2020, 2021, all. of the activism, trans. stuff in the schools, all. the Libs of TikTok kind of stuff, that the majority of. trans children are. on the autism spectrum, right? These children are targeted, right. And I'm thinking, okay,

he doesn't talk about school, he. doesn' talk about home at school, he. categorizes all of his life, he just. won't do it. So I would have no way of knowing. like what is going on there. They could be putting him in a dress. and calling him a girl name. and I would no idea. And then when I find out and I. oppose it, Right. Boom. CPS comes, takes him out of. our custody and he's gone forever. and they can So that's when you go. So that's when you go Randy Weaver. at that point, for sure, and you don't want to go Randy. Weafer. Like it didn't end well for. Randy Wever.

No. Doesn't end well for anybody. No, I don't want to. go down that road. No, nobody does. Nobody does. And so it's like, we. need to get out of here, right? We cannot trust the. whole system with our. child. They could steal him from. us, right. This could happen. I don' want to be the test case. for that. I don''t want to to go. through the legal battles and do all. those fights. I want my son. I don's want to live in a place. where that's even conceivable that. that could happen to you. It's insane.

And so it was at that moment, I'm. like, we need to, we needed to get. out of this state. This is, it's not a place. where I can raise my. children and I'm thinking like. long-term, right? We, yeah, we've been in this place. for six generations, but. it's a wonderful town, you know, amazing place. I mean, it is home. I love the. people there and many of them are. going to be watching this. Well, you must know all of them. from my youth. You know, you go to the store and.

you see, you know, my wife and. children hated when I would go to. store because it would take, you, know, an hour to get a thing of. milk because I'd just stop and talk. to people I've known my whole life. Oh, I love that. And it's a wonderful play. Like, it's hard to leave that, right? Because it's, you know it. You're familiar with everything and. all of the people and just the way. of life. And-. where your family's buried, six. generations, that's just, I had. no idea. That's so much to give. up. That must have been. I can't, I.

can stay in a place like that. There's no future for. my children, for my family in a. place that's that far gone, right, that has been destroyed. And you see so many of these other. states, you know, California, Washington, adopted all the same. things that Walls'. Minnesota did. What. I want to get back to the. Rage Runner and the town that's. being built, which. I assume is a fascist. Christian theocracy.

That's what the TV news in. Nashville said. Sorry, I'll get that. one. Mr. Phil Williams, the journalist. Little Iran, except Christian, right, okay. But why do you think so that the. three, I mean, I have my own. theories, but you've lived it much. more personally than I have. So you tell me, why do. you think states like? Minnesota, Oregon, Washington, California, have gone to a place that, I think by any objective global. standard, there's no country in the.

world that would nod and say that's. okay, except maybe the UK. Yeah, yeah. How did they get there? I think, I. mean, for all of them, the political power was captured by. the left, political and cultural. power. I mean I went to college. in Minnesota in the early 2000s, and you could see the seeds of all. of these things beginning to. form. And so all of the institutions. were captured, and especially.

culturally in Minnesota, people Thanks for watching! people are very nice, right? It's not a myth, Minnesota nice. is very real. And right, the ethos is if you don't. have anything nice to say, right, don't say anything at all, which I. just swim completely against that. tide. But it's, I mean, not to point to. genetics, but it's real, it's. Germans, it is Scandinavians, Norwegians, Swedes, some Finns. It's like these are gentle, non-confrontational people for the. most part. Yeah, they're very.

kind, people that. are, to a fault, unwilling to give offense. Yes, yes. And very, very tolerant. of other people. Yes, they are. And that gets taken. advantage of, right? So you can have- So they take our. best qualities and subvert them. against us. Yes, and. you can see that in other places. too, like on the West Coast as. well, right. And especially with, like, Christians, this.

is done all of the time, where you're told, well, we need to love other people. and be kind and be Christ-like, and that ethos gets subverted. and used to these ends, right, where, well, how dare you, you. know, talk about these things, like. how dare talk about these. thing from the pulpit, these things. going on. Like, it offends a lot of. people. No, it does. I mean, I come from a family like. that with some of them have strong. views, but they would never impose. their views on you under any. circumstances. They're just just not in them.

It's a very specific Northern. European culture where they just. don't want to, don't. wanna get in your face. But it leaves them defenseless a. little bit, I think. Yeah, and, you. know, I mean, maybe I'm, maybe I'm unique, you know, maybe my personality. type is, is such that. I just, I can't do that. I can see like evil stuff happening, taking place and not. say something about it. Not say, this is, this is insane. Like how, how could we, I.

mean, just think a hundred years. ago. And that's sort of, you know, my book is, right, if you go back 100 years and you. think about your. great-great-grandfather and you told. him, hey, they're going. to take little kids and little boys. and remove their genitals and. turn them into girls, right? Are you okay with that? Do you think that's all right? Like what would they do if that was. even proposed? Like they. They become violent. They become the Ming. Dynasty. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I can't believe we have that. Yeah. We're bringing that back.

They would go insane. They would fight. They'd become violent if that were. happening. And we're like, well, you know, I really want to keep. my job, so I'll. put the pronouns in my. email signature and on my LinkedIn, you just go along to get. along. I have contempt for them. So, my theory. is that those are the most secular. states. And Maine is another one of the most. secular states, unfortunately. And those trends are rising.

there as well, famously. And there's something about, there. are lots of left-wing ideas that, or liberal ideas, or socialist ideas. that like, well, I don't. disagree with all of them, honestly. But some of them I do, a lot of them. really disagree with. the transgender thing, the. abortion thing, human sacrifice and turning. your children to eunuchs, those. are so clearly expressions. of cultish religion, of pagan religion that. like, I can't turn away.

I'm like, the Canaanites did this. I know what's going on here. This is not, you claim you're. secular, you're not secular at all. These are religious rituals. That's the way it feels to me. Yes. Absolutely. It is, and that's part of it too. I think the things that happened, like when I was in college in the. early 2000s, you know, you had the. new atheism and. everyone was like, it was. just cool to be an atheist. Like, oh, I'm agnostic. I don't really believe in your-. Who's that guy? Who is that there's like a really. absurd person posing.

as like a genius who is. one of the leader there are probably. a bunch of but who is the most. famous one? Or like Richard Dawkins or Daniel. Dennett or Christopher Hitchens. Well, he was a marvelous guy, but totally wrong on that. He was legit smart. No, there's another one, whatever, who's always running around. Or like today, like James Lindsay is. one of those types. Who's James Lindsay? He is. this. atheist guy that.

opposed wokeness and things like. that, but wants just. a free liberal society. like it's 1995. I'm all for a free liberal society. It's just that there. isn't one. Either you're moving quickly toward, I mean, I will never give up my. views of, I will ever stop. being liberal on the most basic. level, which is I actually don't. want to control you or your beliefs. because I don't think you're a. slave. I think you are a human being. because God made you. Absolutely. That's my view.

And so I don' want to. break down people's doors to make. sure they're adhering to what I. believe at all. I hate that. However, It, you're. either moving toward order or. you're moving toward chaos. You're moving towards, you know, a society rooted in some sort. of transcendent belief or you moving. toward traniism, which is another. like transcendent believe. It's like, you pick a religion. Yeah, it's not whether, but which. There will be one. And that's part of it is like. the new atheism, all of those. things that broke down.

Christian mores and. Christian, just cultural. Christianity that was. imbued all throughout the. American public life, takes all. of that down, but then there's a. vacuum and that vacuum gets filled. up. And what's it been filled up. with? Insane stuff like this, child. sacrifice, all of it. Like, it is a new religion. It isn't a question of. like, well, we're just going to have. pluralism, we're not going to any. dominant religion.

No, there will be one. There will be a God that you serve. and the one that we are. serving now is some kind of demon. Well, I think that so. much better put than I could have. than I could have formulated that. But yes, exactly. Perfectly put. Exactly. You're going to worship something. Yeah. And now we're worshiping. something really, really dark as a. society. But it's it's particularly. pronounced in the states that have. abandoned Christianity the most. aggressively and just come. up with this new pagan religion. So, OK, so this is going on in your. state. You're the six generations.

in one town. Boy, that's got to be pretty rare. right now. You've got six children. You have a child buried in the. cemetery along with all your. ancestors, and you. leave, all of that. What's going on in your church? Were you a church goer at the time? Yeah, I was pastoring a church. Oh gosh, yeah. Okay. So, you're involved in church. Yes, I am. Yeah. And it's a church with wonderful. people. And, you know, they're. there because they.

more or less think like I do. They like hearing what I preach. You know, they like all. of these things. And so, it's extremely. difficult to leave them as. well. Um, but. it was, it was difficult because it. was very small church and. the things that I'm preaching, right? So, I take the pastorate. there in 2021, so after the lockdowns, after all of. these things, and there's an. incredible amount of discontent. among Christians because their.

church has been shut down, their. leaders have failed them, and so we had many families join us, you know, after that. know, overall, right, the people, you know, in Minnesota, right? They don't, they're not used. to the. kind of preaching that. I do, the kind. of Christianity that I have. where it's like, no, I believe the. Bible, like, God is real, and He has spoken, He's revealed. Himself to us in the Bible.

And therefore, I believe all of it. I'm not embarrassed by any of it, I'm going to tiptoe around the. things that might be controversial. If anything, I am going to lean into. those things and. I'm gonna preach all of it. That runs totally against. the evangelical Christian ethos. in America today. Really? It's all about, you need to be nice, you know, make. Jesus very inoffensive to people.

and that's how you bring people into. your church. So I'll say, I'm not an evangelical. I've always liked the evangelicals. I've have always defended them. I'm very sympathetic. As a non-evangel, I mean, I'm. exactly sure what an evangelical is. It seems more like a cultural. descriptor, but I'm. completely opposed to abortion. So that has been, for. me, the reason that I've Always. defended them, but I always thought. that the evangelical's. were really forthright about their. faith. Another thing that I liked. and.

We're way more on the kind of fire. and brimstone side, which I'm for, by the way. Good, yeah. But you're saying that they're not. Um, that, that was certainly, I, you, you look at like, you know, the. eighties and even in the early. nineties, like you have the moral. majority where they very much. were that kind of fire and brimstone. and they've, they've been vindicated. by everything that has happened. I'd say, it's. hilarious. Lent is here, the period. before Easter, the 40 days, and it's. a unique chance to get closer to. God. That's the point of it.

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onto the Lent Pray 40. Challenge right now. But throughout the 90s and early. 2000s, they. really changed course, right? As the cultural trajectory is. changing, they adopted, you know, the very secret sensitive movement. where it's like, well, people are. secret sensitive movement. What does that mean? It was, it was. the big movement in evangelicalism. in the 90's and early 2000s. where we're going to make.

it as easy as possible for. people to come into the church. and believe in Jesus. And so we're not going to focus. on things that might offend them, we're not going focus on sin and. repentance and things like that. We're just, just come on in and. have a good time and. know that you're welcome here, right? Come as you are. We'll meet you halfway. Like that was more or less the... Why do you think they did that? Um, I think... know, a friend of mine,

I think I could call him a friend, Aaron Wren, he's written about this, like, neutral world, or negative world, neutral, positive. world, where, you know, in the 70s. and 80s, Christianity. is generally understood culturally. as a positive. thing. Like, if you said, oh, I go. to church, I'm a Christian, I'll go. to that church, people will think, oh, that's a good guy, he is an. upstanding, decent person. But by the mid-90s, it was sort neutral right it. was sort of Well, that's just a cool thing that you do.

right just like collecting stamps or. building model trains or being part. of the Lions Club but. by the You know. by the Obama years by like 2015. You're in negative world. where if you're an evangelical. Christian you are suspect. You're you're probably a Nazi You're. probably bigot. You probably a white supremacist, right? That's the attitude that. people has. Can I ask you to pause just to state. for the one millionth time, the. Nazis were not Christians. They were not Christians, but they.

love to throw those things around. it. Noxies are Christians, no. more christians were killed by the. nazis than any other group just a. fact um so anyway. no the nazis were not christians so. i just i'm sorry i had to say that. Good to make, you know, yeah, because they'll clip this and. they'll say, yeah. Oh, Andrew Isker is saying that the. Christians are Nazis. But so. that period of. time, like there's these widespread.

cultural shifts in the country. And so I think a lot of it is just. in response to that, where you're. in that neutral world. And you had figures like. Rick Warren or Tim Keller. who sort of adapted these things. So Tim Keller is in New York City. and he. he tries to adapt. Christianity to. your upper middle. class, striver. people in New York City, or to. make it easy for them to come to.

church. So, he wouldn't ever. talk about homosexuality or. if he did, it would be, well, that's. not so good for human flourishing, but we're not really going to talk. about that too much. There's the former president. of the Southern Baptist convention. J.D. Greer, you know, famously. said in a sermon, well, the Bible just whispers about. sexual sin, but it shouts about. financial sin or greed, right? So, they want to downplay-. But it shots about both of them.

It does, and the two are connected, right. Right, if you're. greedy for money, you're also going. to be lusting after the flesh, like. the two go hand in hand. But it's to down play things. that the culture. does not want to hear, right? Because you'll be branded as a. bigot, as intolerant, as a bad. person if you're just like, well, this is what the Bible says, like. this, you know, fornicators, adulterers, sodomites, they will not. inherit the kingdom of God. Right? If you say, yes, I agree with.

that, well you're a bad person, right, you're, you are outside. of polite society if. you say those things. And you can reject it. You can reject Christianity itself. And you're certainly welcome to in. this country and in all countries, actually. But it doesn't. just say this parenthetically. No, it's- Like included in a. sidebar, it says it again and. again and the church I grew up and. they're like, well, there are only. four times where, you. know, in the scriptures where. people, you know where. homosexuality is attacked.

And it's like, since no one ever. read it in my church, No- No one knew, but I finally read it. What the hell, why not read it? And I did, and I've never been. anti-gay or anything like that, but. by the end, I was like, oh, there's. a really clear message. from the Hebrew scriptures. all the way through the Christian. to the New Testament, and again, and again and again. So again, you don't have to believe. it, but if you're a believing.

Christian, it's. not whispered at all. Yeah you do! SHO-. Yeah, you do have to believe it if. you're a Christian, like if you. claim that you, that this is the. Bible, that God spoke in this, right? And so, they're. very fearful of. those kinds of things, but, I mean, the interesting now that. we're in you know what Wren calls. negative world is. is that young. man. who were raised, most of.

them, like raised secular, right? They went through the whole new. atheism thing. They never went to church, they. never grew up. I mean, I talk to so. many guys, so many young men, I see, connect with me. on X and. places like that where they're like, hey, I was not part of. the church at all. I was a. Christian. And I see all. of the evil everywhere, right. I see the things like you. were talking about, like they. are sacrificing babies, like they.

care about this more than anything. else, the ability to murder a. baby. They see things like the Ukraine. war, where it's like, our rulers just decided to. have a war and. kill millions of people. for absolutely no reason. And our proxies have banned the. majority Christian faith, the majority. faith, which is Christian, in. Ukraine. And I just wonder, just to go back. to the atheists for a second,

what do they make of this? Like it just, I understand, certainly understand being agnostic, like I don't know, you know, I get. it. Yeah, I can see why someone. would have that viewpoint. For sure. I think that's a pretty normal, you. now, place to be. I think it's wrong, but I don't. think it is crazy. But to be an atheist, to have. determined that there is. no God, what do you make of the. things you see around you? Have you never held someone's hand. while he dies? What do you think. that is? You've never felt anything. that is clearly outside.

of what science describes? How determined are you to. ignore your. life that you become. an atheist? What is that? Do you know any? Yeah, I-. I mean, it's funny because most of. the people that you talk to are. like, when they espouse. kind of atheist ideas, right, they'll retreat. It's kind of a Martin Bailey thing. where they'll retreat to, well, really I'm agnostic, I don't. really know for sure, right? So there's very few people, very. few, especially now,

that are like no, I'm an atheist, there definitely is no God. Right. Okay, well then, why is murder. wrong? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, because it is, well, okay, I think it's right. So how can you tell me. it's wrong? By what authority? Because you feel that way? That's your authority? Your emotions? And you would see. this, I remember. So like the people you were saying. who are atheists, some of them are. smart, I assume. to that. I remember watching, you know, a previous. guest of yours, actually the man who.

trained me in ministry, Doug Wilson, debate Christopher Hitchens, and. they had that discussion, right? And it was. shocking to watch Hitchens say, well, it's common human experience, you know, solidarity with. mankind, that's why I think murder. is wrong. And of course Doug says to him well. Well, if you saw someone being. murdered on the street, you think. that's bad, right? Well, why? And he goes into his. whole spiel and. he's like, well, what if.

it's a pregnant woman and her. baby's being murdered? You would just say, well no, no, you need to have a medical license. for that to kill that person. Like he got- What did Christopher. say? He's like oh, you're being. flippant. You know, you wouldn't go down that. road. Yeah, what's so sad is I knew. Christopher very well and always. liked him enormously for his. erudition, his ability to. recite long passages of Poetry, Philip Larkin and. Orwell and, you know, he was just. a, he's a reader, like a real.

dedicated lifelong reader and a. wonderful dinner and lunch. companion. I had many, many highly. drunken dinners. with him before I quit drinking. And, uh, but he was such, and so. I love. Christopher, but he was. a moralizer, whoa. And I never, I was much younger, 25 years younger than I am now, and. I never sort of put it into my mind, like, how can an atheist be a. moralized? Doesn't even make any sense, actually. And I agree with him on some things. and disagree with him others, but he.

was always like, in the pulpit, actually, and a. lot of the atheists are. Yeah. What is that? Well, I think so much of it is, is atheism really is, is like-. Moralize. It's hilarious. Well, it's a Christian heresy. They want to have all the. things of Christianity just without. God there, so they want to. be able to pursue. all of these things. They want be able to say, this is. right and this is wrong, but have. no authority to ground it.

on, just by their say so. It is such a conundrum. It's wrong. Okay, why? Yeah, you can see why it's breaking. down Though, um, today, um... it's own silliness. Yeah. Yeah. It creates this vacuum and. it's being replaced by something. So, all of the moralistic. energy is still there. And now it's gone to. things like transgenderism, abortion, Gaza, whatever.

Like, it goes to all of those. routes. It goes to. BLM and rioting. Yes, that's right. And so, it's highly. religious. Because it's in us. It's in us, we can't get away from. the conviction, the true conviction. that some things are right and some. things aren't. Yeah, it's fundamentally human. Absolutely. So but an atheist would have to by. definition be utterly not. non-judgmental about everything like. on this you think they should be. but They're the most.

judgmental people. It's unbelievable. I mean. Christopher at dinner was always. lecturing about the Kurds. And I'm nothing against the Kurd's. Yeah, I don't know much about the. girls. I ran into them in Iraq I. they were the most bloodthirsty. people in Iraq. I did notice that. Again, I'm not against the current, you know, I've not an expert in. Kurdishness but um. He, man, he would like lay down. his life for the Kurds. I remember thinking, what is this? And it was the need to sort of. find a good guy and a bad guy and. put yourself on the good guy's side.

Yeah, yeah. And that's human. It's human, yeah, that's totally. true. So what did you say to your. church when you left? It was one of the hardest days of my. life. I believe it. I tell them, I'm. leaving, I am going to Tennessee, and it was. difficult. I still have a. connection with them, a relationship. with them. I'm still trying to find them a. pastor to replace me, right? It's hard for me to do.

that because like, well, you left, Andrew, you want me to go there now. But they need one, and they're wonderful, wonderful. people who have. blessed me. immensely. And I just told them that, no, I have to leave Minnesota. There's a place for me there. in Tennessee. And it's. ultimately what is best. for my family's future, right?

There's place where. my children can grow. up. Because part of it, too, is it isn't just the things that. we're leaving, the political. cultural things that we're leaving. in Minnesota, but it's also. you know, over all the things that. have been done to. the Midwest, to everywhere where. my children grow. up. And if. they want to have a career. and a life and a family. and a success of their own, there just isn't much for them in.

small town Midwest. And so they'll all just fly. the coop. Like, I mean, this is what. happened, like when I. graduated from high school, most. of the people that I grew up with, they all left. They went to the Twin Cities. They went other cities for. work and for careers. And so that same thing was. likely going to happen with my. children. And I look at it and I. think, well, my family's been here. for six generations.

And whether it's. going to end here, right? AND I. want to be in a place where. we can continue that, where we can. be rooted, where my children. have the ability to stay. in a place. And so many friends are. coming to Tennessee where. we are. They're bringing businesses. there. And once you build. things at scale, the more stuff. you're able to do, the businesses. you're able to have, the more. opportunity is for young. people. And and.

so Right, if my children want to. stay where we are and continue that. on generation after generation, like we actually will be able to do. that. Right, that's, it isn't, it wasn't so much just, okay, we need to leave Minnesota, but it's also we're being drawn to. a place for a particular reason. That there's a- The Tennessee dream. There's a future there. The hope of. refugees from time immemorial. What did the other churches in the. state say as the state. itself became a.

place that faithful Christians. couldn't live? I mean, there are a handful of. churches there that are very strong, right? There are Christians there. that oppose these things, but. they're so, so. vastly outnumbered. Like, when I went to. the state capitol to, you know, oppose the abortion bill, there were lots of activists on both. sides, pro-life activists. and pro-ritual. sacrifice activists, but.

there were no. other Pastors? there. I think one of the Catholic. bishops did a. Skype call, Zoom call. But beyond that, there were no other pastors. And I'm thinking like, my church is. like 30, 40 people. I do this, you know, I tent make, I do a full-time. job and then do this. I work tiny. I'm small. I'm insignificant. And there are churches with 15, 20,000 people, prominent men.

in the Twin. Cities. And all I had to do was just send an. email to the clerk of the committee, like, hey, can I have two minutes to. speak? No one showed up, right? No one is there. And it's like, no, they're going to, like murder babies. up to birth, like enshrine this. in our law, try to make a. constitutional amendment for it. All of these things. And no one is. opposing it. Like I'm the only one. that came. I quoted the Bible and. opposed it as a Christian.

All right, they. There's just so little fight. Christians built your state, and all of it, and. every bit of it. And it's so telling when you go to. the twin cities, I think of them as. Protestant and Catholic. I think them as Scandinavian. in Minneapolis and Irish, and others in St. Paul. But both of them, especially. St.Paul, just littered. with churches and schools, and it's. just like the infrastructure of.

those cities was built by. Christians. And so it's a little bit crazy. that first of all it's been taken. over by people who who have made a. point Yeah, just. you know just stick a finger in the. eye of Christians to make it impossible. for them to live there It's like. you're being driven out of your own. Homeland six generations. Yeah, I mean, this is what happened. with, with my wife, my wife is from. St. Paul. Her, you know, father's side of the family is. Polish Catholic, went to. St. Casimir's church. Exactly! That's exactly in my mind. what I think of. In the neighborhood.

that they, they were in, it was all, all Polish people. But now it's all, it's on Hmong, right, everywhere. It's all Hmong and Somali, and everyone there just left. over the last. What happens to their churches and. parochial schools? Well, St. Casimir's Church is there, but it's largely empty, right? We went there for a funeral a. couple of years ago, but there's, I. mean, people still attended, but it. was not like it was. Most of the parishes there have shut. down, the church schools have.

shut and they've moved out. to the suburbs. And so, that was. a Polish neighborhood. It was, right, this ethnic. enclave. If I can just say, showing myself. to be an ethnic nationalist, the Poles, they're just like some of. the greatest people I've ever met. I don't think I've even met a Pole one. I. have to say they married one. Yeah. I just think they're great. people. I don' t know. I've met many I don t like, but just salt of the earth, smart, hardworking, serious about faith.

and family. Yeah. Great people. Yeah. I doubt it was an improvement, the. change to St. Paul. No, it's like. when her parents finally moved, like. the whole area is. just run down, lots of crime, and it's sad. because it was, you could see the. remnants of what was, like you. drive through St. Paul, you see. some of the old buildings and how. beautiful they were, how much care. people put into these places, and.

now they're just falling apart, bars. on Windows everywhere. Factory workers like basically. tithing to build the infrastructure. of church of churches and schools. Yes and their own homes Yeah, you know people with no money giving. yeah the maximum amount to. build all this stuff for their. families And then it's just some. Politician decides. Oh, this is too white. So we need to yeah Yeah, destroy it all and destroy all the. people it it's a crime on. a level that only historians will be. able to assess clearly, but um.

Yeah, okay, sorry. So, can we just, before you get into. what's happening in Tennessee, I'm. so discursive, it's my fault. But what, why. aren't the fearsome evangelicals, who I will still defend, I'm just. saying that. The laity absolutely. defend them. Well, the laity know. a million of them, and I love them. In fact, there's some working here. right now in this office. But the. preachers, like, where. were they during all of this?

I mean, I think it's. largely the. contemporary evangelical mode of. being is, I. mean so much of it, I. look back to it. being, you know, going all the way. back to something like the Second. Great Awakening, right, where. the purpose of, the major change that took place. there is, it's all about conversionism, right? And it becomes a big show and.

marketing and... and all of that. That's where you got the Ten Revival. Yeah, yes. Yeah, Charles Finney, those kinds of. things. Well that's kind of in the DNA, at least somewhat within. evangelicalism. So to put a finer point on what. you're saying, the point became the. more souls we convert, the more. people who profess faith, that's like the scorecard that we. use. Yeah, that's the metric that... that everyone follows. And so you look at it and you think, well, if we just water it. down a little bit more, make it more.

palatable to people, just get more butts in the seats, then that's the. metric of success, not the internal. development, discipleship. of people, not actual repentance. and conversion, not fundamental life change. and so forth. that traditional Christianity always. was. It's, if we just get them here and, of course, if they put some money in. the plate and they're.

attending, that's what matters. So, you see churches where it's. like, okay, we have amazing. production values, we a great band. and all of these things, and it's. all of these entertainments to get. people in, or the sermon is. sort of like a self-help talk. There isn't really Bible in it at. all, if it is, it's like. tangentially related to. to something that the pastor wants. to say, it's not, all right, we're. going to go through a chapter of. Leviticus today and explain what. the sacrifices are about. Well, there's no, there's none of. those things. And so, you see many.

evangelical people, right, have. not been taught really any Bible. or theology at all. And you see this in like surveys, like the Barna group does surveys, right? What people believe about. different things. And they haven't been taught any. Bible, they don't know it. And so. Then when, you know, when the. liberal says, well, the Bible. condemns eating shellfish and pork, and in the same way it condemns. homosexuality, so what do you have. to say about that? And they have no.

idea how to explain that, what. that is about. And their faith is shaken. God didn't destroy two cities with. sulfur and fire because people were. eating pork. That's right. He destroyed them because they tried. to commit. gay rape on an angel. Yeah, and they'll just say that. with, well, the sin of Sodom was in. hospitality. No, it wasn't. It was gay rape. Yeah, I mean, the least hospitable. thing you could do. I mean just read. it if you want. Yeah, it's pretty out there.

Yeah, it's like, well, yeah, the. least hospitable thing you could do. to a guest is to anally. rape them. Yeah, so all the men of the town. came out they demanded. Yeah, we need to know these angels. to have sex with these. Angels and then lots. like um, I've got some daughters in. here take them Yeah, just kind of. takes a lot off my christmas card. list for saying something like that. But whatever he does that It's in. genesis and they're like no. we want to rape the dudes like so. it's like It's these are. not you. It's pretty straightforward. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I actually, I.

just read Genesis 19 to my children. and there were some questions from. the kids. It was funny, I read that a couple. years ago for the first time, I'll. admit it, and my wife who's. a very serious and. wonderful person but a serious. Christian, we were on a walk and. I told her what I had read. the night before and she's like, what? You know, she's, I mean, she just. like, she's the model. for me as a faithful person, but she was like, no, that's no way.

And I was like it's in there. That's what happened. Yes, yes, yeah. And so, I think about that and it's. like, I mean, it's funny. Like, even at my little. church, I. just preach through the. Bible, right? So, I'll just take a chapter. and I'll talk about it. I'll explain what's going on, all of. these things. And I mean I have some. wonderful people there, older people that have been Christians. their entire adult lives and.

they're their seventies. And one of them said to me, you. know, Andrew, that's the first. time someone has ever. preached from the Book of Judges. in a church service. It's a good one. I went through the. entire book, and then, well, let's do Ruth, and first. Samuel and second Samuel, and it's like, wow, there's so much there, right? So much there. I mean, I had friends come down that. were sort of. new and becoming Christians.

out of being secular their whole. lives. And they're like, whoa, the Bible is extremely metal. This is wild. There's so much political intrigue. happening in 1st and 2nd Samuel, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, and I'm. explaining it sort of in like. this, you know, Mearshymer-y, real politique way. And they just like at the edge of. their seats like, whoa, that's. crazy that that happened. And and so I love it. and I can see why. I I don't claim to understand a.

lot of it for the Old Testament. Starting to figure out the New. Testament more but just having read. it cold a couple of times Just like. a book like you would read Anna. Karenina or Moby Dick It's. like the wildest coolest. most interesting most profound. like those are not overstatements at. all Yeah, and I think. everybody should it's the basis of. Western civilization. I don''t know why people don't read. it There's obviously a reason Or. even if you're an atheist, how could. you not read the Bible? Like everything we have is founded. on the ideas in.

this and like you're basically. Deliterate if you haven't read it. Oh, I know I mean you even you can. see this it's it's so funny like. when journalists write about the. Bible and They're. like, oh, there's this weird. Illusion here that and it's like. he's talking about a whale. swallowing a man I don't really know. what's going on and it like that's. the book of Jonah How do you not? How do not know what that's about? But they just have no idea. Well, it's just so compelling. Of all the New Year's resolutions.

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slash Tucker, or click the. link in the description to get your. free life insurance quotes and. see how much money you could save. and how much hassle you could safe. Policygenius dot com slash Tucker. Even Leviticus, which I read on a. flight to Europe when I had made. myself, cause you know, I had eight hours on a plane. and I texted my wife from the. planet, I was like, this is. excellent, actually. It's just excellent. I thought it was gonna be all like. sacrificing doves because you have. your period that's in there. But like 95% of it made sense. to me.

Well, and it's real, like it's. tangible, right? It's, you know, in theological. terms, incarnational, like the. real, tangible world that. people interact with, right, that's. there. And people always ask me, like, well, Andrew, what's your favorite. book of the Bible? And I love to, I mean, sometimes I. love to get a rise out of people, but I tell. them, well Leviticus is. And they're like, what? Really? And I'm like, yeah, like, I mean, I'm a pastor, my calling is.

to to preach the gospel and to lead. worship. And that book right there, all of it is about how do. sinful people draw near. and approach the presence. of a holy, just, righteous. God that cannot bear sin at. all. And there it's laid out for us, all it. And even like you look. at Leviticus. chapter nine. Like you read that maybe you. remember reading it. I'm actually, you know, going. through this with my church right.

now in Tennessee. But Liberty Church chapter 9 is. the entire liturgy. of the church right. there, each of the sacrifices. And all of the, like, Western. liturgie for 2,000 years. basically follows it, right? You're called into the presence of. God, you. confess your sins, I mean, probably. like your Episcopalian upbringing, Book of Common Prayer, like you. probably track with this. They never admitted that at our. church. Yeah, that's right.

Maybe they didn't have a confession. of sin of yours, but there's a. confession of sin, right? Then there's an ascension, right, the ascension offering in. chapter 1 of Leviticus, right? The worshiper puts his. hand on the animal, right saying, like, this animal's me, and then the. entire thing is consumed, is burned. up, right. Ola, right where the word holocaust. comes from. Consumed, burned up goes up to God. in smoke. that's you, right? That's when, and then the New. Testament, where it says, right, the. Word of God is living and active.

sharper than any two-edged sword. What's the sword of the priest that. cuts the animal and puts it on. the altar and burns it up? Well, that's what's happening when. the church hears the Bible read and. hears it preached, right. You're being cut up by the Word God. and ascending up to God in. smoke. And then the next part of the. service is the offering. Well, that's communion. Right, you sit down and have a meal. with God. then you're sent out, right? The entire liturgy is right there. Like, our actual worship that we do. now, right, after the death of Jesus. and resurrection of Jesus,

right. Sacrifice is done away with. because He is that sacrifice. And we're going through all. of that each time we worship. and renew the covenant with God. And like you see that in Leviticus. and it's like, Whoa, actually, there's so much to learn here in. this book about. what we are doing every Sunday when. we worship God. So I'm like, yeah, this of course is. my favorite book, right? Not just because I'm autistic. and like lots of rules and. regulations, right.

It's like reading the. instructions on the Monopoly game, you know, like, no, it's. there. Like so much is happening, it is beautiful. And the prescriptions. or the prohibitions more precisely. are surprisingly like. sensible. Yeah, yeah. And one of the. challenges to atheism is to explain. why the atheist would agree. with the overwhelming majority of. what's prohibited. Yeah. Because it's in. him, he knows that's wrong.

Don't have sex with your sister. Okay. Oh, okay. And most people, most atheists. would be like, yeah, well, obviously, but of course He. has no grounds upon which to say. that. There's literally no law he. can appeal to to say that. He says that obviously because he. grew up and is reared. and absorbed by osmosis, like Christian culture where that's. prohibited. I think that's right, but I also. think in primitive cultures. that have never had exposure to. Christianity, I mean, I don't know. that there are many cultures. where most of the prohibitions.

in Leviticus would be considered. crazy or esoteric or like, why would you ban that? It's like everyone like, of. course. Well, even, like, you think about. this, there's. a pastor theologian, brilliant guy, Peter Leidhardt, who. wrote a book, delivered from the. elements of the world. And in that, he shows, I mean, there are tons. of just amazing stuff in this book. But one of the things that he shows. is that, right, God makes. these restrictions for.

Israel in the Old covenant. that sets them apart. as this holy people, as the. priestly people. And, but elsewhere in the world, right, they all have something like. that, right? All throughout the ancient world, their gods had something like a fun. house mirror version of Leviticus. where it's like, okay. All right, here's all these rules. about sex and what makes. you clean and unclean and food you. can't eat and can't heat. Like the Egyptians had this, the. Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, all of them have these.

kinds of- The Mayans, the Incas, the Aztecs. The Norse, like my ancestors, the Germanics, like they all had these rules. And it's, well, it's because in the. ancient world, right, they're all. under their own particular gods, right? And what Jesus does. is he comes and he. he takes the world back from. Satan and from all the demons that. ruled over the ancient world, and now he's reigning over. heaven and earth. That's actually. like the book of Revelation.

Right, that's actually what's going. on in that book. the much maligned. Book of Revelation. Yeah, like, I know you had, you. had John Rich on, you know, last. year, and he's talking about. dispensationalism and things like. that. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna be in Tennessee, I need to. meet him and talk to him about this. Did you? I haven't. No, I have no way of getting in. touch with him. Maybe after this. If you're watching. He's a good man. Oh, I love, I mean, he was like. the soundtrack of my youth of. country music, like he wrote all. those songs, right?

So on that basis alone, right. But he's talking about. like dispensationalism and what has. happened in American Christianity. for the last 130 years, how it's. actually a novel new thing. And for me, it was. like, yeah, I looked. at that. I mean, I remember growing. up and that's just everything like. left behind and the rapture. is coming and all of that. And when I- So I missed all of what. you're talking about. Yeah, it's a thing, especially,

and of course, I'm very critical. of it, but. these are. the best people in America. I believe it like the people that. have like six Trump flags on. the back of their truck. I totally. agree Like they they also believe. that well the rapture is coming. tomorrow We need to be ready for it. And so i'm anytime i'm critical of. it. I'm like Okay, i'm. not critical of the people like. there's not a moral defect that they. believe these things. I totally, first of all, thank you. for saying that. Second, I feel. what you're saying, especially with.

evangelicals. I look at these, you. know, greaseball preachers who I. honestly, I find disgusting. And then I see the people who go to. their churches and I'm like, oh, I. love you. You're exactly my kind of. people. You're the most decent. people in this country. You're trying your very hardest. against headwinds that are so unfair. and you're doing a. great job anyway. And I just love that. I really mean it. I love them. So I never want to criticize. Ever. Yeah. Right, because... Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, whenever. I'm critical of that theology,

I'm like, I have to make sure people. know, like I'm not criticizing you. because you're great, awesome. people. Like, even when I first went. to the town in Gainesboro before we. decided, you know, before we made. our move, it was right after the. hurricane, which it wasn't far from. there. And this is a town that, like they don't have a whole lot. The median income is not very high. in this town, but I'm driving around. in every gas station. Where is it? Gainesboro, Tennessee. is in Jackson County. It's like North Central Tennessee. And yeah. And so every gas station, every gas.

station has like signs up like, Hey, we're going to, we go into. Western North Carolina to go help. out. And it's like, like people. that don't have a whole, like. they're, they're taking their time. and, and what little money they have. to go and help people. And meanwhile, you know, the Biden. administration is sending billions. more to Ukraine and to, and. to Israel and everything. And they're taking their time. It's like, these are wonderful. people. They are, and I will say for Trump, whatever people think of Trump, I. know Trump well enough to have. talked to him about this kind of. stuff and, you know, away from.

cameras, and his. affection, love, gratitude toward. those specific people is totally. real. Yeah. And you can argue about whether, you, know, which policies serve. those people best or whatever, but. it all, the leadership begins with. love, and if you don't love the. people you lead, you'll mistreat. them. and you see it reciprocated. Right. But it's totally real and. completely real and it's emotional. and he's like, I love those people. And he eats McDonald's in private. Yeah, that's right.

So that is, I just want to say that. because I know that for a fact, you. know, a lot of politics is obviously. fake and, but that. part, that specific part of Trump, like loving people like that, oh. man. It's the people that are, you know, the most maligned in our country, like, like the, the only people. you can make fun of are like rural. Southern Appalachian people, right? That's free game. You can criticize them all you want. and mock them. Like, you Know, Jimmy Kimmel can, can make of them all day long on.

his show. Um, no other group of people can you. do that for. And, and they're the people who have. been, have been dispossessed of. their country the most. And that's just a big reason why we. moved to this place, is these. are the people that are hated. I wanna go live with them. I wanna be around these because. they're great people. Wonderful people. I live in a place with. a lot of people like that and, you. know, every third person has a. child or grandson who's died of a.

drug OD and like there's no. year-round work and there's just a. lot problems and these are like, you can pull into their driveway on. a Sunday and they will just, they'll. have a six pack and they'll give you. two of them. I mean, they really are. just the most generous, kind, hilarious, wise, just good people. The best. The best that this. country's ever produced, in my. opinion. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not. I'm not from those. people at all. So I'm like coming at this like, wow, these people are incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, I think about.

that, right? And I think about. the theology that has been, that has shaped, you know, their. outlook. And it's understandable. because, like, you're, especially in. the midst of, like serious decline. It's like, well, actually, it's sort of attractive to have. this eschatology where everything is. coming to an end, right? You can understand what people would. eat that up. But the people that actually. built America, right, you know, the Puritans and all of the. settlers of this country, you think. of even like the founding.

generation, that theology. did not exist yet. That wasn't until the middle of the. 19th century that it came into. being. They were actually. optimistic, right? They viewed this. continent as. a place for Christians to. build, to grow, to have. future. interesting point. Well, I've never thought of that. before. So, dispensationalism, for. those who haven't followed it, is. normally criticized and defended. because of its.

interpretation of what. biblical Israel is now. So it's like, it's a. super electric topic, both theologically and politically. And people get utterly hysterical. about it and start calling you names. or whatever. Yeah, so there's that. but you're saying. That the deeper or a. deeper problem with it is that. it makes people pessimistic. Yeah. Can you flush it out a little. bit? Yeah, so I think if.

you think, if you go your entire. life believing that. any minute, the world is going to come to an. end, that I'm going to float up. into heaven and my clothes will be. here and everything, we're gone, it's done, it is over. Well, that takes a people. that ordinarily are. very low time preference that. build things for the. future that that delay. gratification and all of those kinds.

of things. And it flips it around, it makes them very high time. preference. Where it's like, well, if the world's not gonna be around. tomorrow, why invest in anything for. today? And you can even see this in. terms of architecture, right? You think of the buildings that. churches have, well, they're. in strip malls or they're, you know, just they're. kind of ugly. Yeah, yeah. And you look at the buildings- It's. like a former pet store in the strip. mall. Yeah, And you look at the. buildings that Christians had before. this was the dominant theology.

And they're gorgeous. They're beautiful. And there were. very poor people that made them like. you said earlier. He said earlier now. And it's like that. right there, like you see it. tangibly. And you think about that in terms of. all of life. That is so smart. And what was the phrase you used, low time preference? Yeah, low, low-time preference. What does that mean? It's like an economic phrase, right? So, right, your preference in terms. of time. Please respect my. ignorance. Yes, it just means that. you're.

going to wait. longer for things. It's sort of like the marshmallow. test with little kids. Yeah. where in five minutes you'll get two. marshmallows or he can eat this one. right now, right? Well, the child that says, oh, I'll. wait, I want two, right. Well, he's gonna go on and have more. success and so forth versus. the one that has, that immediately. grabs the one and eats it, right, well, that's low time preference. It's a people that will delay. gratification, who will. save and invest. and build things for.

the long-term for the future. And for future generations. Yes. Yeah, they plant oak trees. Yes, who plants oak trees? Yeah. Well, I mean, we're going to. in tennis We want to have bring back. the American chestnut in. We want bring that back you putting. in evergreens, please. Oh, I think everything yeah, I'm in. there's there's pines. Yeah, there's these don't neglect. Don't neglect the pine. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know it's a fast. growing tree relatively speaking, but it's It's beautiful. It's the answer and cedars if you. can if you have water Yeah,

I don't know if we'll be able okay. Okay. Yeah now we're gonna since. you're a preacher old testament. scholar What was the inside. of the temple clad with a cedar? Yeah from lebanon exactly. Yeah God himself said cedar. That's right. Yeah an accident. He was pretty specific about it. Yeah It smells. great. Maybe there's a reason my. sauna has cedar on the inside. I always tell my kids that. Just think of it like the temple. It's. my senior church, yes. That's right. No sacrifices, however. Well, here's something you may not. have known. This network almost.

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one, American Country. Network is here to stay. We really cannot recommend them. highly enough to you and we're. grateful to them for their kindness. to us. They did it for no reason other than. to be nice. So we're especially. grateful for that. We always are. So go to acncountry.com to enjoy. everything they have, including. their 24 seven live stream. We hope you will. I'm sorry, I've gone so far. Now we're But so your point is that. dispensationalism not. only has specious. theological elements, which.

I think very obviously it. does. By the way, the whole theology was like. laid out in the end notes. It's not actually in the Bible. It is like interpretation in the. Yeah, I mean, John Nelson Darby. and Cyrus Gofield, and they'll. claim that they're antecedents from. the early church. Well, this guy. believed in something like the. rapture and it's like, it's. always very, like you said, specious. Yeah, that's my read. as a non-theologian, but it does.

seem incredibly silly, but sincere. Yeah, exactly. People sincerely believe it, so mark. them. A hundred percent, a lot of people I. really like and respect, so I just. want to say that. But you're saying that the. cost is even deeper because. it changes your worldview. and makes it. very difficult for you to engage in. the labor of, for example, loving people around you and. building something beautiful, which. are also Christian imperatives, is. that it? Yeah, I think so.

And it also, yeah, so it forces. you into an immediacy, right? We've got to do everything. right now because there isn't going. to be a future. There's not going to, I mean, I. heard this all the time growing up. Well, you know, we're not going to. be around, we are going to. raptured. So why plan for. the future? Why build things for the. feature? Why plan? You heard that growing up? Oh, yeah. This was just. everywhere in evangelicalism. Did you grow up in that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did.

And I remember. in college when I was first getting. into more historical. theology or thinking like, what did people believe before the. 19th century about things? For the first 1800 years? Yeah. Well, there were various different. eschatological schools. Like there's all sorts of different. views of how the end works. But when I first get into that and. I'm thinking like, oh, I don't know. if I actually believe in the. rapture. And I remember being in. college and in campus ministry and. telling people this. Like, I dunno if I really believe in.

that. I mean, it was. like I just uttered. the greatest heresy of all time. Like I could have said, I probably. could have just denied. the Trinity or something, right? And they would have been like, oh, cool, that's interesting. But saying, I didn't think there was. a rapture, what? Are you serious? Right? Like that is. central doctrine to many. Christians and it. has this deep, emotional connection. Because, I mean, if you've grown up. your entire life hearing this and.

it's just assumed by everybody, right, it's hard to break out of. that even though the everybody of. the historic church of millions. or billions of Christians, right, is. actually a tiny minority in the. history of the church that has. believed that. but presently. It's a majority of evangelicals. Yeah, it seems like that theology is. dying, that's just my sense, but I'd. be the last to really know. No, I think your instincts. are correct. I think some of it is, I mean, some. of it too, especially in the latter.

half of the 20th century, right after, Israel is. formalized as a state in 1948, well, that gives like big. confirmation that, okay, things are. happening. Like, there's an Israel in. Revelation and a temple in. Revelation, so it's happening, guys. So, we've got 40 years, right? 1988, that's the end. Well, then that doesn't happen. And then people make all sorts of. other guesses. Oh, was I? I wasn't even aware of that, so the. idea was 1988 saying that the world. was... Yeah, 40 years after 1948, right, that that's when the rapture.

is coming. That was a, you know, I. think it was, there was a book like. 88 Reasons Why Jesus is Coming. Back in 1988, right? And I'm sure it sold a lot of copies. and then, of course, didn't. happen. Wow. But… The Mike DeCaucus lost. No, I mean-. That's not obviously the rapture, but... you know, whatever, we'll take it. For people in Massachusetts, maybe. it was. But yeah, it's. just so interesting because,

like, I look at it, like you look at. Matthew 24, right? That's the big, you know, the big. text that people point. to. What does it say? Where Jesus says, well, there's. going to be wars and rumors of wars. and earthquakes in various places. and plagues and things like that. But right before it, right, Well, Jesus is in the temple. he's fighting with the chief priests. and he's telling them, you know, he's just, he is fighting. with them at Passover. So, thousands of people surrounding. them, he is embarrassing them in.

the temple and. his boldness. This is really shocking. to people who haven't read it. before. The rage that he displays at. the leadership, the religious. leadership is just like, it comes right off the page. And which is so ironic because you. see evangelicals who are like, you. need to be more Christ-like, right? Which means like wimpy and weak. and inoffensive. Sweeping into the. temple and knocking over tables and. driving people out with a whip. And then going into the Temple and.

giving this parable, right, of the vineyard, right? He's like, first I. sent this servant, you beat him and stoned him, and. then you killed another one. Well, I'll send my son, they'll. respect him. Ha ha ha ha! it's the air, right? If we kill Him, we could take the. vineyard for ourselves, right?" And. he asked, what's He going to do to. these people? Well, He's going to. come and He's going to destroy all. of them. And it's like, and they. knew, right, the.

hilarious thing, I think, like. reading the Gospels is, right. Jesus is giving parables and. the point of the parables is. actually to conceal what He's. saying. And people are like, well, what's that? Even His own disciples. are like what's that about? I don't really know. Like, it. doesn't make any sense. but he's telling parables to the. chief priests and the Pharisees and. all the leaders of Israel, and. they're like, oh, that's about us. I think it says they understood it. was about them. They knew, it does. And they decided to kill him. Yeah, so the parables are. like obscured everybody else, but. when it's about them, like, oh,

he's talking about us, right? And- But talk about speaking. truth to-. the power, I mean, like, I don't know how. that Jesus was kept for. me as a, you know, lifelong churchgoer, I have no idea, but you just read it, I would. recommend everyone read it. Non-Christians alike. But he's there. he's there. He's right there. And especially the Gospel of. Matthew, I love it because it is-. But Mark too. Yeah, all four, I mean, obviously. all four of them, but like Matthew. in particular is so cool. to me because like.

you read it and the way it's. organized is. Jesus is recapitulating the entire. history of Israel, right? So, right in the very beginning, he goes out into the wilderness for. 40 days and 40 nights, right, just. like Israel's in the wilderness for. 40 years is tempted. by Satan. He comes, right, after he crosses the, or goes, is baptized in the Jordan, is like crossing the Red Sea, goes. into the wilderness, then after. that, right he is, he's preaching a sermon on a.

mountain, expounding the law, which is Moses on Sinai, right? And after this, he is telling. parables of the kingdom, like he's. David, or like he's Solomon, writing Proverbs, writing Psalms. um, and then. begins all of these excoriations. of the high priesthood and the. Pharisees and all the leaders of. Israel, well, what's that like? It's like the prophets, right? So, he's. reliving the whole history of Israel. in his lifetime. What's Matthew doing there?

What's the Holy Spirit doing there, it's showing that Jesus is Israel, right. He's the true Israel, right. As the apostle Paul says, he is the. chosen seed of Abraham, right, he the one that carries out Israel's. mission, which is. You know, I'm kind of doing the. weave too, like doing. the weave. It's Trumpian. It is. People, I mean, when I'm preaching, people are like, Andrew, you're. doing the Weave like President. Trump. But like Trump, it's interesting. I try not to do the hand motions and.

things like him too, but we. all have our own rhetorical style. But it's, it is interesting because, right, like the whole dispensational. thing where It's like, okay. right, the Old Covenant still. somehow sort of exists and there's. still this, you know, this. distinction between Jew and Gentile. out there. Well, like, the Holy Testament talks. about this, that no, right, that separation. that existed in the Old covenant, right? They're brought together as. one in Jesus,

who is the true Israel, the true, the successful Israel, Israel that's. obedient and goes to the death and. is vindicated by being resurrected. And that old covenant, it's done. It's over, right? Those distinctions between Jew and. Gentile, they're gone. Who says. that? only about a thousand times. in every book of the New Testament, so to come to the opposite. conclusion does make you sort of. wonder, like, have you read it? Yeah, exactly. And whether you believe it or not, that's just not what it says at all.

Yeah. And so, you think about that. and it's like, okay, these two are. brought together. I mean, the whole. book of Acts is about this, right? That the Holy Spirit. not only goes to the apostles and. the Jews in Jerusalem, but the Gentiles get it too. Like, Peter goes to Cornelius and he. believes. And now here is this. Roman, right, this Gentile, and. the interesting thing about that too. is there's this misconception that. the only people in the Old Testament. that believed in God were Jews, but it's like everywhere they go,

there are these Gentile God-fearers. that believe in God, and Cornelius. is one of them in the New Testament. Well, it's all through the. New Testament, and in fact, Jesus. calls out repeatedly. gentiles as. the most faithful, repeatedly, the Roman officer. Yes, again, like, I mean, he. says this in. the Gospels, like he's talking. about, right, the faithless. and adulterous generation, right? He's talking about Israel. And he's saying in.

the resurrection, right, Sodom and Gomorrah and Tire and. Sidon, they'll rise, right. Sodom destroyed. for trying to rape angels. They will rise up judgment on. this generation because if. things that I'm doing, right, if the. Son of God appeared to them and. preached to them, they would have. repented, right? And Nineveh, right this Gentile. city in the Old Testament of. Assyrians, right brutal,

bloodthirsty people, right. Jonah shows up and. he preaches, and his only message is 40. days Nineveha is going to be. destroyed, right he's. gleeful about this. King hears about it, he repents, he makes all the people in the city. wear sackcloth. and ashes, and it's like, well, I don't really know what's going to. happen, but this looks serious, we better repent.

And, I mean, we're going to. go into deepweeds here if you let. me, you know, this is, I'm not. filibustering like President. Putin did, but, right, you look at the book Jonah in. particular. he flees not because he's. afraid of the Assyrians, right? Like that's what people. think, is like he's scared to go. there? No. Like you read the end of the. Book of Jonah, and he's. arguing with God at the end,

and He's saying, I knew. that you would show mercy on these. people, right? I knew you would the mercy, that's. why I didn't want to go, right. He was out with God, like trick God. into not being gracious. to these Gentiles, because. he knows in. the law, right, in Deuteronomy, right, one of the signs that Israel. is about to be cursed is. that he is going to call. nations, right, the Gentiles. Right, nations that do not know him.

to himself. He's going to go to the Gentiles and. away from Israel. And that means judgment is going. come upon Israel. So, Jonah knows this. He is like, I am going the opposite. direction. I'm going to Tarshish, to. Spain. because I am not going to let God. judge my people, right? That's why he's angry about this. And it gets even more interesting. because Jesus talks about. the sign of Jonah to Israel. and people think, oh, well, Jonah's, he's talking about the. resurrection, being in the. ground for three days and three.

nights. I mean, that's symbolic. That's typological. He's drawing on the typology. But it's not about that. It's that what's going to happen? Gentiles are going to hear the. gospel and not you. Yeah. Right? And that judgment is. going to come on Israel, right? Judgment is going to come this. generation. And that's what Jesus says at the. beginning of Matthew 24 is. these things are going happen in. this generation, right. He is walking with disciples in the. temple, and they're marveling.

at the, we would marvel too. I mean, beautiful, like the whole. thing is clad in gold on the outside. is gorgeous, beautiful. Giant, I mean massive stones that. you, it boggles your mind how human. beings can move these things and. build this stuff without, you know, modern power tools, right? They're marveling at the temple. And Jesus is like, what are you. looking at? Do you not know that not one. stone is going to be left upon. another very soon? And they're like, oh boy, when's this going to happen?

Well, 37 years later, actually. Yeah, well, I think it's, we can. debate, you know, I think- Well, whenever, but it's- 40 years. I'll be autistic on that point. The second revolt, it's normally. said to be 70-80. I think the resurrection is in 30. I mean, we're coming up on 2,000. years of. The point is, the Romans, it's actually crazy, the effort that they, I mean, I'm. sure you've been there, to the site. I haven't. Maybe one day. Oh, you should go. Jerusalem is the most amazing city.

and they've, anyway, but. they just went to. such a great effort to separate. every stone. Try everything. So how much, they didn't just burn. it and sack it, okay, got it, but they actually dismantled it. piece by piece. How many slaves did that take? How much money did that, how much. effort, human effort did it, why. would you do that? Why would you. bother to do that. So, okay, I just want, and I'm so sorry. for the discursions, but I want to get to your.

destination, which is Tennessee. Can you be a lot more specific. about what you're doing there? I know there have been attempts to. paint this as some sort of. white supremacist enclave or. theocracy or whatever. What actually is it? Can you describe it? No, so really. it's a. real estate venture to. build communities, to build, and I'm even hesitant to. call it like subdivisions because. it's not subdivisions, it'll be, it's large properties, two, three,

10 acre lots where people-. Has someone already bought the land? Yes, yes. The Ridge Runners bought. the parcels. It's being divided up. and sold as we speak. And one of them, my church is gonna build a church, like right at the center. And so it's, so imagine, you know, so there's kind of two. kinds of development that happen, or. really just one kind. It's just build massive. cul-de-sacs of divisions, houses for black rock, that. kind of thing.

And like, that's not how America. was built, right? Like my town, you, it's founded in the middle of the. 19th century. And, like, the first thing that gets. built, like everywhere else, were. churches. and the schools, and. that's not featured anywhere in. any subdivisions or. real estate. developments at all. There's no place for people to. congregate and have an actual. community. Yeah, yeah. You see all of these. ones. I mean, I've seen some of the. plans in like places around like the. Dallas-Fort Worth area where it's. like they have a lazy river and they.

have all these nice amenities. like that. There's never like a church, right? There's never anything. that the old America once. had. And so, yeah, my church. is going to build, it's building. there, families. from all over the country. Some of them, you know. me, I've known them. And they've been dying to get out of. their blue state. city, you know, horrible existence. out of the traditional subdivision.

into a place where they can have. land, where they can have. some chickens, maybe a cow, like. live like Americans used. to, and be out in. nature and enjoy. beautiful things, right, to build something like that. Because that's happening like. everywhere, like it's development, right? especially in Tennessee, I guess. It's like here in Florida, just exploding, right? So many people moving there because. they're trying to get out of these.

places. And so what gets built, right, black rock style subdivisions. and just hideous buildings. Yeah, and very anti-human, right. And so this is development that. is human scaled. It's built for people to enjoy. actual life, right for. people to. congregate in the same area where. they hold you know, similar values, right? You don't want to. live in a place where everybody. hates you and hates what you think.

and hates that you love. Donald Trump, you love your country, you love you God. I've done that. Yeah, you don't, you know what that. and tons of people, it was like, oh, wouldn't it be great if I had. neighbors that, you know we. pretty much agreed on everything. We agree on everything politically, culturally, all of that, and then. you don' even have to talk about it. just have normal. normal life together. Your kids can play with their kids. and grow up together. That's the kind of thing that's. being built there in Tennessee.

And so I'm so excited. to be a part of it. The fact that there's a church at. the center of it is a red. flag for the authorities in most. places, and certainly for the. cultural commentators and. the media, and it was any. other religious institution, of. course it would be great, that would. be your cue. They're praising the Muslim. communities in Texas, for instance. Right, or the illegal alien. communities in Texas, or whatever, but a Christian church is,

and I don't think any Christians. should be surprised. I mean, the. Bible says you're gonna be. persecuted for believing this, and. they are. All right, prediction come true. But tell us the response to. this, this dangerous venture of. yours. Well, you know, like locally, the people in town and in. the surrounding area, even despite like the news attacking. us and things like that, the the people that I've spoken. to, the people I've met in the town. are very.

enthusiastic, actually, especially when they. see the things that I do, see the. podcast I do or various things. Like, oh, you're not at. all like the TV man. said you are. And of course, these. are people that we've been. describing. Like, they don't trust. the media, they don' trust. journalists. So they're already distrusting. of that. I'm like, oh it just seems like you. really like Donald Trump and. the United States and Americans.

and the Constitution and our. freedoms. And you seem like a just normal. conservative kind. of guy. And I'm, like, yeah, I am. That's, I'm an open, open book. Like, there's no, you know, what you see is what you get. What I, what I believe, I earnestly. believe. And so, so people are very, have been very, very kind. But the state legislature hasn't. tried to mess with. your zoning permits or anything like. that? No.

And the thing is, it's like, well, the company itself is not. saying, well this is a community, like that would violate the Fair. Housing Act, right, to say this. is a Christian-only community. It's just that my church is. allowed to build a church there, right? There's no law against. that at all. And I can. call up friends and say, hey, you. want to move here and be part of our. thing that we've got going on? What are the costs. like? Oh, the cost of living is... extremely low.

There's no income tax in Tennessee, just like Florida. And so it's, especially compared to large cities, much, much cheaper place to live. So a lot of people are like, oh, wow, that's only going to cost me. this much for a home. It would cost me two or three times. that if I were to build something. like this and I get land to have... Are our houses being built there? They're starting to be. Yeah. Yeah, my my my friend CJ. actually is right in the right the. beginning stages of building his.

His dream house. He's one of gonna be one of the. first ones. That's quite a. Concept do you think. that and you've. written a book about this called the. Boniface option, which. Was controversial but also loved. Like all good things. That's right. Maybe you're speaking. self-referentially, but, uh, or-. No, no, no! I'm not! I was just saying like, you know, it's pistachio ice cream, you know, like not everyone loves. it, but the people who do really do.

They really do, of course. So, but I. think you suggest that, that like. it's time for. sincere Christians to. be in fellowship with each other, like physically. Yeah, yeah, especially because, you know, you see, you sort of. like online communities where. people are like, oh, I like. this pastor, I liked the. sermons that he preaches, right? I agree with this theology and. I'm being formed in shape. You kind of, you band into.

groups online where you sort-of. self-sort and there are. these massive communities on. the internet. It's like, well, what if. What if we took that, this digital. community that exists, and what if. we made it in real life? What would that be like? And that's sort of what, at least. for me, what I'm trying to. do is, what. if bring people together in. real-life? What kind of stuff can we. do? I'm just trying to make it on my. own, just eke out an existence,

but what if all did that together. and multiplied our. respective bandwidths. What kind of stuff would we be able. to accomplish? And you expect to have. businesses there too? Yeah, people are already moving. their businesses there. And the exciting thing is, and it wouldn't be just like the. people moving in, where they're the. only ones working at these. businesses, it will help. the people that are from there, the local community, which is,

you know, throughout the... you know, because of macroeconomic. forces, geopolitical things, things that were done to our. country, all the manufacturing and. real good jobs that used. to exist in a place like this, those. are all mostly gone. And so, what would it look like if. we brought those things back? How would it bless the people. in that area, right? That's a major part of it. Yeah. And, so, that's the exciting thing is, well, we can, we come.

to a place like this. We bring our friends that have, you. know, some of them have remote jobs. and good incomes. They can, people will. spend money locally and businesses. will spring up because of that. People will bring businesses and. need employees and. the people. in the area will flourish. in a way that they haven't for. quite a while. That's the pioneer spirit. For people who are interested, what's the name of this again? Ridge Runner, so the Highland Rim. Project.

Highland rim project. Highland RIM Project, yeah. So the website is. ridgerunnerusa.com. Look at that. for you, do you expect, I mean, what. you described in your home state, in your hometown, it's basically. the persecution of Christians, the. people who built the United States. And that is a trend. Do you expect... Where do you that. trend to go, to the extent you can. predict it? That's the most difficult thing, of. course, always making predictions, but I think.

it will go in two. directions. So you have the. left, I mean, you see this right. now, just how violent they are. They're just itching to destroy. things, destroy people. They're burning Teslas, they shot. President Trump, right? They're very, very, violent people, and of course like the political. apparatus on their side loves that. They never condemn it, they never. say these things are bad. And we saw the same thing.

The Youth Brigade. Yeah, they were supposed to be in. 2020, right? The same exact thing. And there. have been instances of churches. being shot at and burned. down and bombed and things. like this. I think those kind of. things will. continue to happen and continue to. get worse, especially. in blue states and blue cities where. it's basically allowed. George Soros just handpicks all the. prosecutors and they're not going to. enforce these laws.

And but on the flip side, they're still. like tens of millions of Christians, very conservative, evangelicals. and the like. They just got President. Trump elected, right? And political power is being. wielded. And that's always the. thing is like, for so. many years, we were told. that no, no, our enemies. have all this political power, but.

we're gonna restrain ourselves, we're going to follow the constitution, and we're just gonna expect them to. disarm themselves for reasons. And that sort. of way of thinking among. conservatives is quickly. being discarded, that. the only thing you can. do is confront power with power, right? And President Trump, and. Vice President Vance, that they're. wielding power and. that wielding of power is going to.

defend Christians in this. country. And so, I think that. conflict will continue to. become more stark. The two visions for. the country will. become more black and white. It will become more obvious that. Christians need to band together. leave places where they. have no protection whatsoever, where people like Tim Walz or.

the next governor of Minnesota, probably Keith Ellison, who is an. Antifa Muslim. That was a terrifying thing, too. It's like, this guy, maybe he knows. who I am, and what could. that guy do to me? To leave a place like that where you. will very likely be persecuted. They want to have a foil. The whole thing on on Christian. nationalism. I mean, this is why I. wrote a book on that, is in. 2022, the media is just attacking. like normal, decent evangelical.

people that happen to like Donald. Trump and have skepticism about the. election, the vaccine, everything, and make them the boogeyman. And they would always say white. Christian nationalism, they always. put those things together because. they happen to be white. And even though they espouse no. white nationalist tendencies. at all. They have no race, theology, whatsoever. Whatsoever at all like. they're they're like, well, I'm. totally colorblind. They have a universalist theology, unlike the fascists who run. the U.S. media, who are. like Nazi race-mongers.

Totally race-brained. How many. people of color, we're going to. count you by race, which they. literally do in this country. Who's the Nazi? I know. They're obsessed with it. They don't do that in church. When people come to your church, they're like, how many blacks do we. have today? How many Hispanics? How many Pacific Islanders? Don't you like, we have Christians? Well, the evangelical leadership. definitely does, right? Well, they've fallen for this. of course, but never forget. how poisonous it is. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, it is. It's like, well, no, we just have. Christians, right? And so, no, I think.

those trends will continue. But I'm hopeful, I'm optimistic, right, I'm espousing this optimistic. eschatology. So, of course, I am optimistic. I'm always hoping for. the very best. And I think that especially. if the kind of. evangelical Christianity, right? Historic. Christianity, the Christianity that built. Christendom, that built the West, that built America, if that comes back, right,

the kind of Christianity that sees. Jesus in the Gospels, like we were. talking about earlier, and sees a. man, right? A man that is on a mission and. is totally courageous and. attacking God's. enemies, right to their face, knowing it's going to get him. killed, right. That kind of, Christianity. that preaches like that, that. speaks like that, that... sees a God that is. real and is. your God and He.

loves you and He loves. what's true and good and. right and there's justice and. He is going to bring justice. to all of His enemies, right, to all the people that hate Him, all. the people that do just monstrous. evil, right? That kind of Christianity, that. makes a comeback in America. Well, that's an. America that has a future. I have to say, I think that the. hallmarks of courage among them. are cheerfulness. and optimism. I do think that.

And you have that, you know, for a dangerous, theocratic fascist. You seem very optimistic and. cheerful. So thank you for spending all this. time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It was. great to meet you. Yes. Nice meeting you as well. Thank you.