Ana Kasparian: Epstein Cover-Up, Israel Strikes Gaza Church, & the Great American Political Shift

So, normally when I do an unconventional interview  with like Putin or the president of Iran, people get mad and they ask, you know, why are you  talking to him? This is one of those very rare, maybe unique circumstances where people are going  to ask you why you talking to him? Yeah. And. people are going to get mad. People are going to  get very angry. I know. Um, and your producers had. been reaching out trying to get me to talk to you  for at least a year and a half. And it my feelings.

toward coming on your show went from I would never  in a million years to kind of giving myself the. opportunity to listen to your podcast to figure  out who you really are because of course I had. very strong thoughts about who you are. Really?  Yeah. But I realized that it was based on clips. that I would watch of you that had gone viral and  they had gone viral because they were offensive. or you had said something that was viral like  syphilis is viral that I mean pretty much I mean.

you should think of it that way because it was  mostly um painting you in a very negative light. And to be sure, you and I have some pretty  deep disagreements, but I think that some.

of what you've been talking about lately like  hits at the heart of what I care most about, and that's the importance of this  country representing the American people. the importance of the United States being a  sovereign country that has politicians and a. government that prioritizes the American people  as opposed to a foreign government. And speaking. out the way you've been speaking out about some of  these issues um takes a lot of courage because it.

goes against the grain and it goes against I mean  decades of propaganda and conditioning in American. media. And so to me, that commonality that you  and I share made me a lot more open-minded to. coming on this show because I do think that  Americans from across the political spectrum. need to find areas of agreement, especially as it  pertains to making this country better so we can.

apply appropriate pressure on our politicians  and get them to represent us regardless of the. corrupt corruption regardless of the influence  of foreign governments. At the end of the day, these politicians are nothing if it isn't um if  if it weren't for the American people, right? So, like right now, what's really interesting  is in Congress, it appears that there's this. bipartisan effort to force a vote uh to release  the Epstein files. Yes. And the only reason why.

that's happening is because there's a very loud  and aggressive portion of the MAGA base that's. demanding it and they're not letting it go. And  I commend them because I agree with them. I think. we need transparency. We need to know whether or  not we literally have members in our government or. influential people, you know, in the periphery of  our government who are pedophiles. I want to know. I think that's fair. Yeah. It's interesting. um  the framework that you laid out, the government.

of any of any country ought to be sovereign, which  is to say it should make most of its big decisions. on the basis of what's good for the people  that it represents. And it's bad when foreign. countries control your country. Mhm. Those are  not those don't strike me as hateful statements. at all. Those aren't expressions of animus against  anybody, are they? I I don't think they're hateful. statements at all. I'm an American. I love this  country. I love the people in this country and.

I don't want to live in this uh ridiculous like  perversion of the American government where they. pretend to represent us but in reality Americans  are on the back burner. Our tax dollars are being. taken from us not to help Americans who need help  but to give all sorts of subsidies to private. industries that are already doing really well.  Okay, they don't need extra subsidies or tax cuts. or things like that. But in addition to that, all  the foreign aid that we're pumping into the Middle.

East, Israel, right? Oftentimes when we talk about  foreign aid that goes to Israel, at this point, I believe it's about what $4 billion a year on  top of all of the military aid that we've been. pumping into Israel over the last 2 years. I mean,  it's unacceptable to me that we're doing that. And. in the backdrop of that, you have the United  States Congress cutting $1.1 trillion dollars. to Medicaid. Really, that's the problem. That's  where we need to cut funding from, by the way,

also cutting funding to food assistance. How do  you justify sending tens of billions of dollars. to Israel in the last two years alone while  targeting cuts to Medicaid and food stamps? I It makes me beyond angry. I think it's so  unbelievably unjust. And if you speak out about. it the way I'm doing right now, I'm sorry, I'm  getting like kind of aggressive. If you speak out. about it like I am right now, people try to smear  you as an anti-semite. And you know what? I'm not. an anti-semite. I know what's in my heart. And I'm  not going to let those smears stop me from saying.

what I know is correct and what's morally just. Is  it possible that um people are slandered in order. to prevent conversations like this from happening  in the first place? So you said I was hesitant to. come on the show. Um, I mean, the reason we wanted  to book you and a bunch of people who work for me. had the same feeling, uh, is that is what you just  said, like we can disagree on all kinds of things,

but if the fundamental orientation is the US  government ought to make a good faith effort. to improve the lives of Americans, that's not a  partisan statement. That's not a crazy out there. sentiment at all. And we saw that it's like, oh,  yeah. And then you're like, yeah, but he's a Nazi. I can't do the Nazi show. I mean, so you sort of  want like I have all kinds of stupid opinions. I've said all kinds of stupid things. I've had  ugly opinions in the past. I'm not defending every.

opinion I have had or even currently have. I'm  merely saying to reduce someone to a caricature. is a kind of tactic to prevent anyone from having  a like a real conversation with the person. It's. meant to discredit. And yeah, you're right. It's  meant to stop these types of conversations from. happening. Now, you are very conservative. I'm  not very conservative. I have some views that. lean more conservative than progressives feel  comfortable with and that's okay. But at the end.

of the day, what drives my politics is this desire  for everyone to thrive economically. And you know, you've been speaking out about that. Well, how is  that? So, what is the different If I could I mean, I would hope that would be like everyone's  desire. It's not. It's not right at all. But. what what does it mean to be cons not to get too  philosophical here, but what what does it mean to. be conservative or liberal like at this point?  Well, I I don't think that the political labels. that we currently have in this country make much  sense anymore to be honest with you. So, but I.

I'm talking about like traditional conservatism.  You know, I I believe in reproductive rights to a. point. You know, I know that you're anti-abortion  big time. Yeah. So, like that's a disagreement we. have and I'm not at all going to like come on  this show and capitulate on my beliefs, right? But I think that those are important issues. I'm  not minimizing them, right? But I feel that we. can't even really engage in a real debate about  policy or specific issues unless we know we have a.

sovereign we're living in a sovereign country and  we have a government that actually has interest. in representing us, right? Because it doesn't it  doesn't really matter otherwise, right? If you. know people keep voting for different things but  get the same result. Exactly. Then the system is. fake and that's the point where people start to  go crazy and do radical violent things which I'm. completely opposed to. I just want to say that  at the outset. I hate violent radicalism more. than anything. And I feel like that's the result  of people realizing their system is fake. So you.

have to make it kind of real. You're you're right  about that. And you know, we've been seeing more. and more political violence in this country and  it's terrifying. I mean, I'm not justifying it, but I can explain why it's happening, you know,  and I don't want things to devolve further. And. here's the other reason why I decided to come.  So, I knew that you moved here. You moved to like. a rural part of the country. And I live in a big  city. And I think that living in a big city and.

spending most of your time in a big city kind  of blinds you to the rest of America. A lot of. Americans live in rural parts of the country. And  I want the opportunity to like speak to them, like. get to know them, understand where their hearts  and their minds are at. And so I saw it as an. opportunity to like expose myself to people that I  otherwise wouldn't get an opportunity to speak to. And um you know you I think you've hired like  drivers to bring people you know to where you're. at from the airport. Yes. Yeah. The airport's  very far. But um I love that because they're not.

like you know they're not Uber drivers. They're  like unemployed loggers and stuff. No, but they. are. And I I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed  having conversations with them. So uh one of the. drivers who picked me up, Jen, she mentioned the  big beautiful bill that just passed. And you know, I can tell she identifies as Republican. And she  wasn't happy with that bill. And I suspected that. most ordinary workingclass Americans, whether  they're Democrats or Republicans, are not happy.

with that bill. You know, the $1.1 trillion in  cuts to Medicaid. That's what she brought up. She. brought that up. And I thought that was really  fascinating. Now, if you talk to someone who. identifies as a liberal Democrat, they'll  probably think, "Oh, these Republican voters, they're so greedy. All they want is tax cuts.  They want to cut the social safety net. But no, actually when it comes to ordinary people, there's  a lot of agreement. A lot of agreement. A lot of. people are suffering right now. And you know, you  have all these different industries, especially.

you know, beginning in the '9s offshoring, you  know, all these jobs that have been destroyed. I mean, most people work in the service sector  at this point and manufacturing jobs are gone. I think that's part of the reason why Donald  Trump has been so appealing to the MAGA base. without question. Right. And so I I want ordinary  people to just consider the contradiction here. So.

if you're a liberal Democrat and you're under the  assumption that Republican voters are just greedy. and they want to cut the social safety net, why  would they love Trump so much who ran as a as an. economic populist? Now, I don't think that Trump  has carried out his promises because of well, there's a lot of different examples I can cite,  but the most recent is the so-called big beautiful. bill. Yeah, there are um some provisions in  there, no tax on tips. It's going to be means. tested and it also expires in four years, whereas  the tax benefits that disproportionately benefit.

the wealthy are permanent. uh the no tax on, you  know, the elderly or social security that also. will expire and it's up to a certain amount. I  think it's like $6,000 if I'm not mistaken. Um. the child tax credit I think was just peanuts  compared to what I think this country could. afford in helping families. You want to encourage  people to have kids. Yeah. Okay. Best way to do it. is to create an economic situation where couples  feel comfortable bringing life into this world.

Agree. You know, um and then no tax on overtime.  That's another example that's also means tested. and that's a provision that will expire in 2028.  It's just interesting to see which provisions. are permanent and which are set to expire in four  years when you know Trump is done with his term. So if you really want to represent the working  class, you got to put your money where your. mouth is. And I haven't really seen it to the  extent that Trump claimed he was going to help.

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So when did you like have your views changed?  I have some views that have definitely changed. Yeah. I wouldn't say that I like swung from  far left to far right. I don't even know what. that means actually. I mean I I don't think I can  answer the question so I don't know why I'm asking. it of you, but like what do the terms mean now?  And um I for whatever it's worth I've settled on. people who are honest, people who lie, right? And  I that that's like the only division. maybe have.

the honest party, the liar party or something,  you know, in the future. But um but clearly. you've started thinking things or thinking through  things that you hadn't before. And God bless you. That's like the greatest privilege of adulthood.  You get to think for yourself. It's happened to. me a lot. But how did that start? Well, I mean,  it started with I I it started with like personal. experiences and it often does, right? Like often  your policy preferences will slap you in the face.

and then you're like, "Oh, I don't like that." You  know, you know, cuz sometimes there are unintended. consequences. I'll give you a specific example.  So, I was very much supportive of the defund the. police movement in 2020 and it was because, you  know, you see this video of a man like dying on. camera with a police officer refusing to like,  you know, ease up on him and it really made me.

angry. I felt that it was whatever you think about  George Floyd, I don't care, right? Like I what. was happening in that moment in that video was so  disgusting to me and so unjust. And so I was like. no we I totally bought the narrative that it's  not actually about like abolishing police. It's. about you know taking some of that funding and  investing in social services or in social workers. so social workers respond to certain calls instead  of the police. um that actually has ended up being.

pretty disastrous in California in Los Angeles  in particular because I've seen it firsthand. And you're from there? I'm from there. My my best  friend since childhood, uh she's a social worker. herself. Um, and I've talked to other social  workers about what their experience has been like, and they're like, I actually interviewed one for  a piece I wrote for Real Clear Investigations, and she told me, "Look, um, it hasn't really  worked out the way people have thought it would.

work out. Often times, we'll go to a call and  it's supposed to be a non-violent person or yeah, a non-violent call. someone's having a mental  health episode, but they'll show up and oftentimes. it'll be someone who does have a weapon. It's not  a gun, but it's maybe a a knife or and they feel. threatened. So, they have no choice but to call  the police. And so in 2021, the Los Angeles City.

Council, you know, was inspired by BLM and they  decided to take $150 million away from the LAPD's. budget and instead invest it in other services. It  actually ended up being even more c We're spending. more on police, more on the LAPD than we ever  have, like record amounts. And the reason why is. because you have to really ask yourself before you  make these decisions. Okay, do we need this many.

officers? Let's compare Los Angeles to other huge  cities. What's the police officer or sworn officer. to citizen ratio? And in LA, it's always been  historically lower, much lower than other major. cities. So, um, at the peak of the LAPD and the  number of sworn officers in the LAPD, we had about. 10,000 after the cuts and after all the difficulty  in recruiting new sworn officers cuz people.

don't want to be police officers anymore for  understandable reasons. It's not a desirable job. when you have people constantly, you know, talking  about how terrible cops are. So now we have about. um 8,500 and as a result the remaining sworn  officers are working insane overtime. Like crazy. Like we have one police officer in the LAPD. I  think his name is Nathan Corey. He made $600,000. one year because of police overtime. So right now  taxpayers in Los Angeles 600,000. Yes. Yes. So.

right now taxpayers in LA are kind of confronted  with this situation where they're paying far. more for less as it pertains to policing since  there is a shortage. There's longer wait times. if you call 911 and you need help. Um some people  complain that they'll call and if it's not like. let's say someone was the victim of a burglary,  obviously you're not in imminent danger. So,

they'll call the cops and hope that someone will  show up, you know, take fingerprints and maybe. find who burglarized them. They never do, but  they don't show up for hours and people get really. upset and they're like, "Why is this happening?"  And what's really interesting is I try to explain. why it's happening and I get called all sorts of  names for doing it, but I don't care. The truth is. the truth. Wait, wait. What do you I mean, okay,  first of all, why are you one of the only people. willing to admit you were wrong about defund the  police? Like, why were you willing to say, again,

bless you, it's the beginning of growth, but um  I've done it myself many times, but why were you. willing to admit that? Because at the core of who  I am, I think as a journalist, you know, I I I. didn't enter this line of work to be a mouthpiece  for anyone. I really care about the truth. And I. feel that if you want to live in a democracy,  you have to make sure that people are getting.

accurate information to make the right decisions  for themselves once they're casting a ballot. And so I felt angry because I felt misled by the  media. Yep. And now, you know, it was partly my. fault too because I was in a bubble and I was  only getting one side of every story. And even. if I agree with that side, I should at least hear  what the opposing argument is. And I wasn't going. out of my way to do that before. Now I do. And  so I see things as far more complex and nuanced.

And it's hard to make an argument that's going  to appease any audience at this point because. I think a lot of Americans have been conditioned  to be partisan and prioritize partisanship before. truth. And I think truth is what will set us free.  Genuinely, truth will help us ensure that we have. a better government. And I'm sorry, one side or  the other does not have a monopoly on the truth.

They just don't. And one side might get something  right one time, the other side might have a good. point when it comes to a different issue. And I  think we just need to be open-minded. And more. importantly, we need to have conversations with  people because if you just rely on what the media. is saying about a particular political figure or a  particular media figure, why are you letting them. tell you what to think about individuals? Why  don't you actually do a little bit of digging. or have these conversations yourself and try to  figure out who these people really are? You know,

like the the speech you gave at Turning Point. I  you said a few things in there that I might not. agree with, but like the overall message was so  courageous and I never thought in a million years. I would hear it at a conservative conference.  Never. It's just interesting. Well, I mean, you know, the truth is wherever it is and you you  try to recognize it. But I hope I'm going to give. you my text and I want you to text me if you will  criticism of what you're saying now. Okay. Because.

I want to keep a list of people who are offended  by what you're saying just in my head. Like, how could anyone be offended by what you're saying  now? Yeah. Well, I I it might not be I mean, you're not the criminal here. Yeah. Well, let  me just be honest with you. I I think that most. people who are going to attack me aren't even  going to listen to this interview. It's just the. fact that we're having a conversation with each  other. Um, but I take offense to people trying to. police who I can talk to. In fact, the more they  try to police me, the more I want to talk to the.

person they forbid me to speak to. Honestly, I've  always been like that. I've been like that since. I was a kid. My mom knows it better than anyone.  I'm just a little bit rebellious and I don't like. to be told what to do. I hate it. And what to  think. Yeah. And who you can talk to? I mean, that's like the most that's a core decision. Who  do I associate with? Yeah. Who are my friends? Who. am I having dinner with? Who do I marry? I mean,  if you allow other people to make those decisions.

for you, you're not free. No, you're not. And  oh my god, what a terrible career path to be a. journalist who doesn't get to have conversations  like with people that they're curious. I'm curious. about you. I am. You were a neocon. Yeah, I was.  I became hard to believe that. It is hard to. believe that. I became politicized in the leadup  to the Iraq invasion in 2003. Yes. I I was in high.

school and I remember in 2002 um I went to like a  hippie, you know, magnet school and we had peace. day annually and I remember giving a speech in  2002 uh to make the case against the preemptive. war in Iraq and I remember you you're going  to laugh at this. I remember in English class, we were reading a play, The Glass Managerie, which  I found um deeply boring. And I had like a Yeah. I. had a cutout of a New York Times article in which  Bill Crystal was one of the people the reporter.

interviewed. And you know, Bill Crystal loves war.  Loves war, hardcore neocon. And I just remember. like just sitting in that English class reading  his quotes and seething over it and thinking to. myself, I can't wait to one day get an opportunity  to like confront him. And I actually did get that. opportunity. It wasn't about war, but it was  a Politicon panel debate about healthcare. And. um you know, I kind of brought up the fact that  Israel has universal healthcare and Americans.

don't. What did he say? Um he was so unprepared.  There's like a picture of him like like he has. index cards like someone wrote notes down for him  and he's just like fumbling with the index cards. He doesn't know what to do. And then once the the  whole panel discussion was over. Um someone who. was with me overheard him say, "Damn it, she  came prepared." Something along those lines. Yeah. It's it's arrogance. It's people who've  been told since they were small that they're. brilliant. Mhm. You know, Bill Crystal, Ted Cruz.  I mean, it does distort you and it actually makes. you dumb paradoxically over time. Definitely.  Yeah. never pressed. Got to stay humble. I.

completely agree with that. It's not hard for me.  My circumstance. You probably heard about eight. sleep. Lots of people are talking about it. It is  a company with one mission, improving your sleep, and it's changing the way people do that, the way  they get a good night's rest. We just got word. that their team is launching a new product.  It's called the Pod 5. It's an original and. innovative mattress cover, plus a blanket that  uses precision temperature control to regulate.

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Okay. So, you I I just wanted to emphasize that  point. You would you came to the conclusion that. you were wrong and you said so out loud. And to  me, that's the acid test. Is someone honest? I. don't know. Will that person admit being wrong?  That's when we know. Yeah, totally. And um Okay, so you live in the same place. That's also hugely  helpful because you can see it over time. The same. place, you know, Ventura Boulevard, you've lived  near it your whole life, right? So, what did you.

start to notice? Like, what is it like? What  are the effects? Well, I started noticing that. homelessness really exploded in Los Angeles. Like,  it's always been a problem in LA. Yeah. But it now. touches every like square mile of of that county  and it's just gotten during CO it was unbelievably. bad and I just felt like it was inhumane seeing  what was going on and it wasn't just that there.

were a lot of homeless people it was that there  were a lot of homeless people with like severe. severe like mental health issues and they're they  can't make decisions for themselves. They're like. literally I can't tell you how many times on  my way to work on the freeway. I almost hit a. mentally ill homeless person who's on the freeway  405. Uh yes. Yes. And I can't imagine what I would. go through um for the rest of my life if I ever  hit someone with my car, you know? But like why.

are we living in a society that like thinks that  this is okay? This is not okay. This is not okay. the um drug addiction, not just in LA, all  across the country. Has there been any effort. to do anything about this? Zero. Zero. And it  makes me really angry. The Sacklers are still. billionaires. Yep. Exactly. And it just I find it  to be You want to talk about treason? Politicians. who let this kind of stuff happen to the Americans  they're supposed to represent. And people mistake. that as me being antihomeless. No. No. The people  who defend what's happening right now, they're.

antihomeless. Seven people died of drug overdose  on the same corner near where I live in a two week. span. Seven people, same corner. That wasn't a big  scandal. The city council member who represents my. district wasn't asked about it. She didn't have to  defend herself. She's one of these uh city council. members who keeps voting on the dumbest policies  that do nothing to actually help these people,

but somehow justifies the continuation of the  same failed policies that have led to all of these. overdose deaths, all of these people with mental  health issues not getting the help that they need. It's awful. The whole situation is awful. I mean,  I lived in LA as a child. I've worked there on and. off my whole life. I really love Los Angeles. I'll  admit that. Um, I just love it. It's just a truly. American city. The architecture is it's beautiful.  Unique to LA or was. It's just an amazing It's.

what a an ambitious, hopeful, affluent country  builds when they get to the end of the continent. Yeah. You know, it's like, wow, there's nowhere  else to go. Let's build something amazing. And. they built Los Angeles. And I just I've always  loved it in my heart. So, I go back there. I'm. going back next month and I'm shocked by it. Like,  I can't even believe it. at the encampment outside. the veterans building in Brentwood. I'm like,  what is going on here? And no one ever says. anything. Well, but I don't live there. You tell  me. Do people talk about this a lot? They talk.

about it privately, but it's really interesting  because while there's this openness in regard to. the failed policies in private discussions, no one  wants to say anything publicly because you'll get. the kind of treatment I've gotten. The people  are dying on the street. Seven people at one. intersection. Yep. seven people, Americans. And  that's like verboden to talk about. How? Why? Oh, you're stigmatizing your unhoused neighbors.  I can't tell you how many times I've heard. that statement. You're stigmatizing your un It's  like, no, they're dead. And I feel bad about it.

I Yeah. No, I'm stigmatizing the very politicians  who think that this situation is okay. The same. politicians who took our tax dollars, 24 billion  dollars worth of California's taxpayer money, okay, squandered it by funneling it to these NOS  and nonprofits that are run by their friends. Oh, of course. They fattened up their pockets. They  didn't do anything to actually help those people. Nothing. So, when you say that at dinner, Yeah.  What's that like? I mean, again, I don't have.

dinner with idiots, okay? So, I'm not going to  have dinner with someone who's like, "No, I think. we should keep stealing money from taxpayers  in the highest tax state in the country." No, I I'm not interested in that. But when I do  have dinner with my friends or with, you know, acquaint acquaintances or even like people that I  just met, but you know, for what whatever reason, our paths crossed and we're having dinner. They  all agree with me. You know, most people agree.

with me. And I don't think what I'm saying is at  all offensive, which is why I keep saying it. I'm. not going to stop saying it just because some  idiots are going to try to smear me for doing. it. No, I don't care. Like it these issues go way  beyond me. You get what I'm saying? Well, not only. is it not offensive, it's pro-life in the truest  sense. It's prohuman dignity. You don't want seven. people to die in an intersection. You're shocked.  Yeah. And horrified and saddened by it. And that's. not shameful. that that's evidence of of decency  and compassion. I I don't understand how that just.

got inverted. You know, I don't want to go back  to the days where we were criminalizing people. who were suffering from drug addiction, right? But  what we're doing now is, I think, far worse. Oh, of course it is. You know, because at least if  someone was using publicly, which by the way, right now happens all the time. You see people  It's It's really devastating. Like you see people. smoking meth publicly. You see people Oh yeah. Oh  yeah. Um you see, you know, do you know what the.

fentilene is? Yeah, I've seen. Yeah. It's all over  Ventura Boulevard at night and it's I don't know. Can you describe it for people who don't know what  you're talking about? It's basically fentinyl. Um I guess it does something to your body where  after you take it, like if you see someone who's. literally standing, but they're like hunched over  like folded over like a scarecrow. Yeah. Exactly. um they're on fentinyl. That's what fentinyl  does to their body. And I I I never saw that once.

until recently. And now it's just all over Ventura  Boulevard um in the San Frernando Valley at night. specifically. You don't see it in the daytime. And  it's the most heartbreaking thing ever. Um these. people are they're dying. Very likely they're  going to die. Someone's child. Yeah. Yeah. And no. one cares. No one cares. I can't tell you how many  times people just kind of like you'll see videos. of this online. People will have to walk over a  guy who looks like he might be dead sleeping on.

the sidewalk, you know, like it's it's made us  almost numb because it's so it's so much of our. lives now. Like it's it's a regular occurrence.  So when it's a regular occurrence, it becomes. normalized. And I it degrades everyone. Exactly.  And I'm worried that since it's so normalized, nothing's going to be done about it. And yes, I  just find it immoral and I find that it's wrong.

and I'm disgusted with our politicians. I don't  think I could have put it better. I every word you. said I agree with passionately and I don't know  how this wound up a partisan issue at all. And I. it's I think it's because it's a Trump era. Yeah.  Trump offends the sensitivities and sensibilities. of self-identified liberal Democrats so much that  they think they have to like automatically take.

the opposite stance of what a conservative would  say or what a Trump supporter would say. But I. that's why I want people to start talking again.  Yes. and not make Donald Trump like the nucleus of. our politics because I think that you know again  on a lot of the important issues there's a lot of. agreement among voters. They just have to allow  themselves to think for themselves. Think I would. say the most important issues. I mean if you've  got seven people dying in one intersection in Los.

Angeles you're not going to tell me that Iran is  a greater threat to my country than that. I can't. think of a greater threat to my country than  that. actually. And so, and I don't have any. idea why that's partisan. I I'm interested in the  governor. I know the governor of the state. Um, he's got some I know Gavin Newsome, he's got  some talent, I think, and uh charming for sure, but like what is going on? Is he aware of that?  I've asked him and I You really find him charming?

Well, in a kind of reptilian way. I mean, charming  in the sense that um his whole life is devoted to. winning people over, you know, kind of like  Bill Clinton was any I think he's good at it, but I also think someone said to me the other day,  Nome could pass a lie detector test on any saying. anything like there's a coldness inside that  he's a sociopath. I think I think he's a snake. oil salesman. I think he's a liar and I think that  he destroyed the state of California. Full stop.

I've got no love for Gavin Newsome. I think that  people tend to fall for appearances and he's for. whatever reason people think that he's attractive  or something. I don't find him attractive because. I know who he is and what he's done. Um he has  shafted Californians who have lost everything. in wildfires. Um the fire in Paradise, California  was absolutely devastating. an entire community. burnt down as the result of PG&E, Pacific Gas,  uh, and Electric, that's the utility company,

refusing to upgrade their aging equipment. Their  equipment is over a hundred years old. And so what. started that fire was this metal hook that had  eroded to the point where it broke. Power lines. come crashing down onto dry brush. It sparks a  fire and destroys an entire community. Okay. So,

you would want PG&E to suffer some consequences  for that, right? I think. Well, Newsome bailed him. out because it's one of his uh biggest donors.  He recently in an interview, I can't remember, he's been doing these like podcast interviews to  kind of rebrand himself as like sort of common. sense guy. I've I've turned it down. Yeah. Don't  fall for it because it's total BS. But, you know, he said something along the lines of, "Oh, you  know, I take personal accountability. I made. a big mistake by getting caught. You know, I  was at the French uh laundry. It's like some.

ritzy fancy restaurant." During co after I told  Californians, you know, don't get together with. family members during the holidays. It's very  dangerous. Whatever. He said that he was having. dinner with friends. It was his friend's birthday.  No, no, no. He was having dinner with his donors. So even in the context where he's pretending  to take accountability, he's lying straight to. everyone's face. And I can't stand it. I really  can't. I want au I want real authenticity. I want.

real accountability. I want politicians who are  willing to see that the policies they advocated. for aren't working quite as they intended  and they're willing to recalibrate, admit. that maybe they got something wrong. Of course, I  want humility. I want this country to improve for. the people in this country. And unless we are  willing to be honest, unless we're willing to. tell the people trying to smear us, to silence us,  that they can f off, nothing's going to improve. Everything's going to keep going down. Everything  is going to continue devolving. In my lifetime,

this country has only gotten worse, not better.  And it's going to keep going in that direction. And I want that paradigm to shift. I want it  to change. Why do people disagree with that, do you think? I don't know. I really I I I think  there's something psychological about it. I think. that we've been conditioned to think of politics  as black and white, good and bad. But I think it's.

more complicated than that. I think most Americans  are good people who want good things for everyone. But I think the media kind of conditions us  to hate the other side, whatever the other. side really is, you know. Um I certainly had  those feelings and things are different today. compared to when I became politicized during the  Bush era. Yes. I feel like during the Bush era, it was a little easier to see good and bad, right?  So for instance, even among Republican voters,

I think people had woken up to the fact that  the neoconservatives had dragged us into wars. uh that we shouldn't have been fighting, that a  lot of people, Americans and civilians in these. countries we were invading were suffering as  a result of this ideology. Um but things have. gotten a little more fractured. I think within the  parties, there's like multiple parties. You get. what I'm saying? I do. But when it comes to the  two establishments, the Democratic establishment,

the Republican establishment, there's a lot  of similarities between the two. They're in. alignment. Exactly. On the on the big issues that  matter. War and the economy. War in the economy, the biggest issues. 100%. They love They love to  like distract us with shiny things. Yeah. Have. a race war. Totally. 100%. All these like social  issues, by the way, social issues are important. And I'm not minimizing them, but the way that  they're framed by the establishment, I think, is interesting because it's intentionally meant to  get us to fight each other constantly, of course,

instead of considering what the big issues are and  how we might actually agree on those big issues, what we can do to work together to again  apply pressure to politicians to demand. that they represent us instead of their  donors, instead of moneyed interests, instead of a foreign government. So I think people  are waking up for the first time. I'm a little bit. excited because you know the kind of speech that  you gave wouldn't have happened 5 years ago. No,

10 years ago. No, I think that's that's right. And  I wouldn't have though I I'm just struck by how. normal and non-threatening and non-hateful  and just basic most people's views are, including mine. I don't have any complicated views  about anything. not a very deep person at all. And. I don't know why we've all internalized this shame  that like some things must not be said. And it's. like why? I don't I don't hate anybody. And in  fact, I'm on guard against that. I'm I refuse.

to because of my religious beliefs. It's like  I'm not hating anybody period, but I'm also. not going to be shamed into like ignoring obvious  stuff. None of us is paying very close attention. during the summer. The news cycle calms down.  Families travel. People are relaxed. You're at. the beach. It's all great except the people in  Washington never stop. It gives them a chance to. advance their agenda without you noticing because  you're on vacation. That means new regulations, more censorship, the continued erosion of  the Bill of Rights, the values that built.

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by the time I finished listening to it, I thought  to myself, he's going to run for president. That. was a presidential speech. Really? Yeah. No,  that's literally the last thing on my mind. Like I. would never do that. Uh, no. I mean, unless I was  like told by a higher power or something, but no, I I don't think I'm suited for that. I of course  I don't want that. I have a lot of happiness and. balance in my life. I have a huge family. I'm  the oldest male in that family, so I feel like.

that I have a lot of things I'm paying attention  to. Um, I have dogs who I really love. So, no, like nothing about that is appealing at all. And I  would never I've never had any political ambition. of any kind and I have even less now. I mean I  I've known a lot of people who have had that job. and it's just it's really hard. Oh, I would never  want it. I would never want it. Are you kidding. me? No. And also the idea that like out of 350  million people, I'm the most qualified to lead. Well, there's plenty of people who think that.  I don't think that. Yeah. No. And I mean think.

that about themselves obviously. I do not think  that. Yeah. Like Ted Cruz thinks that. Yeah. Well, exactly. And it's just sad. and they're  compensating for something. Some of them, I guess, and not only be mean, but I don't  I'm not compensating for anything. So, I have no interest. But, but here's my question.  So, you said the media are a huge part of this, which is undoubtedly true. I've been in the media  for 35 years. I know everyone in the media pretty. much. There are some mostly they're not evil.  They're just kind of dumb. Okay, there are some. evil people. I could name them like Joe Scarbo or  something, you know, who's like obviously really.

bad, but most people are not. But they go along  with this and the question is why? And one of the. reasons is because they don't want to alienate  their audiences. You've been you are on one of. the biggest maybe the biggest certainly one of  the biggest liberal podcast progressive podcast. the Young Turks you've been there for almost 20  years. I was amazed to find that out last night. at dinner 18 years. I don't know how old you are  but I was shocked by that. But and it's one of the.

biggest and you are one of the biggest and maybe  our audience doesn't know this because they don't. watch liberal podcasts but you're one of the  biggest. So you start saying stuff like this. you're going to like Yeah. lose audience. You're  going to lose money like actual money. Yep. Has. that happened? Do you worry about that happening?  Uh yeah that's happened. Um, let me just say that. for whatever anyone might think about Jen Uger,  who's the founder and CEO of the Young Turks, you know, he's he's a very like he's he's  sometimes brash, combative, loud, and that turns.

people off. And I get that they might not agree  with his politics, but I just want to talk about. who he is as a person. Because if it weren't for  Jenk, I wouldn't have the confidence to publicly. admit I'm wrong or the confidence to be genuine  and honest about what I really think because he. provides a platform for you to actually say what  you think and not get punished for it if it hurts. the business and it did hurt the business. Um  yeah, so we lost a portion of our audience for.

sure. Um I based on what you said based on what  I said and more importantly say that alienated. people I mean okay I would say that the straw that  broke the camel's back was I agreed to go talk to. Glenn Beck. He invited me to go on his podcast.  You know I obviously have disagreements with Glenn. Beck but I was actually shocked at how much we  agreed on. You know we talked about war. We talked. about all sorts of things and there were areas  of agreement. It was a pleasant conversation,

but I didn't capitulate my values at all. Just  because I'm talking to him doesn't mean I've. done anything wrong. My views are my views, his  views are his views. We had a conversation. Well, I come home thinking nothing of it. And uh one of  our employees uh someone who's a contributor to. TYT or was a contributor to TYT decided to take  that as an opportunity to make a big spectacle. about the fact that he's quitting because I  decided to speak to Glenn Beck who's like a threat.

to black bodies or something. I don't know. But he  just it was Is Glen Beck a threat to black bodies? I have no idea. Is he I mean I didn't get that.  I I don't think Glenn Beck's much of a threat to. anyone to be honest with you. He might have some  ideas people don't like, but okay. Um, but it was. nothing that you specifically said. It wasn't  like No, nothing that I said. I mean, no one. was citing anything I said during that interview  that upset them that that was so offensive that. it was worthy of like publicly condemning me and  making a big spectacle about how I can't work here.

because of Anna and she spoke to this dangerous  dangerous man. Did Beck say anything like so over. the top that you were supposed to respond to it  or something? No, I No, I mean Glenn Beck a pretty. moderate guy actually. I mean, I don't I mean, he  might have some views that aren't moderate, but. we didn't talk about any of those things. Like,  the conversation was really not offensive at all. in my opinion. And but they didn't cite anything.  He didn't like endorse Hitler or anything. It was.

just the fact that I spoke to him. But, you know,  unfortunately, you know, when you have someone. make a public spectacle about quitting and making  it seem as though I I had done something so wrong, it signaled to a portion of our audience like,  "Oh, maybe Anna isn't who she says she is. Maybe. Anna is like a secret like far right winger or a  Nazi or I don't know." How long had you been at. the show at this point? Um, 17 and a half years.  It wasn't That's deep cover. So, you've been a.

secret Nazi for 17 and a half years. Yeah, I'm  really good at You're playing the long game, baby. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, I'm sorry. Let me let me just  say let me just say this. I started working like, as you mentioned, I've been there for 18  years. Started working there in 2007. Okay. Um, when TYT was basically a startup that no one  knew about, the revenue for TYT at the time. came from Air America. Air America had gone  bankrupt a few months after I started working.

for them. And Jenkuger is amazing because he's  he's like, I'm going to make it work. I'm going. to find a way to keep this company afloat. And  he did to his credit. But I can't even explain. to you how much of a grind it was building TYT.  It was a grind. Long hours, like blood, sweat, and tears. But we believed in it and we loved  it. And I actually have like great memories of. those years. We barely made any money at all, but  we believed in what we were doing. And there was. something really exciting about that. I went  through all that. I helped build what TYT is.

today. And the audacity, the audacity of anyone  coming in as a contributor or anything else to. tell me who I can and can't talk to is that's  offensive. That's offensive. Okay. I earned this. You're not going to come into my house and tell me  what my beliefs should be, who I should talk to.

F off. Good. Good. Good riddance. Go. Go. I'm not  going to be censored by anyone. Not my audience. No one on the right. I don't care. I don't care.  So, sometimes when people sell products on TV, I love this product. I use this product. There's  the question in the mind of the viewer, does this. guy really use the product? Does he really love  the product? Would you keep the product at home? Ask my dogs. Yes. Now, we are in a garage. Uh, I'm  not going to tell you where it is because again,

this is prepping, but this is my garage. There's  a gun safe. And this is a part of my stockpile of. ready hour. Completely real. The second I put  it here, the second Ready Hour sent it to me, I felt peace of mind. Um, because no matter what  happens, we're not going hungry in my house. I. moved a lot of fishing gear out of the way to keep  it in my garage. And ever since it's been here, I have felt the peace of mind that comes from  knowing my family's not going hungry no matter. what. Lastcount supply.com. Lastountupply.com.  It can be in your garage along with the peace of.

mind that comes with having it. I have a nephew  who loves you and he's always, "Uncle Tucker, you got to interview this chick. She's amazing."  And I'm so glad. Sorry. Excuse me. I just um It. just makes me laugh. I mean, I just I love what  you're saying. Of course, but you also are making. a point about the guy you work with who started  the company, owns the company, who even after. some of your audience bolted over this. Mhm. Um,  he didn't call you in and say, "Knock it off." No,

never. Never. That's not who Jenk is. And by  the way, I mean, he's had hosts on our network. who he vehemently disagrees with. And and by  he's had other hosts come in and like demand. that those hosts get fired because of what they're  saying. Oh, it's offensive. And Jen's like, "No, we don't do that here." And I think what informs  Jenk's behavior, honestly, is the fact that at. one time he was a self-identified Republican.  This is when he was in college and stuff. Yes.

And he and I have like a lot of these heartto-he  hearts because I have these days when I am down. about everything that's transpired because I do  feel like it's unfair to paint me in a certain. light just because you don't like the people I'm  talking to. But um whenever I need like a little. bit of a pep talk, he'll mention what it was like  as a college Republican. And he's like, "Anna, it. was unbearable because they wouldn't let me talk  in class. Like they would do everything possible.

to prevent me from being able to speak." Who's  they? Like other students or professors who didn't. like his point of view. Okay. Liberals. Liberals.  Yeah. So, and that really really frustrated him. And so now as the CEO of the Young Turks, he's  not going to turn around and censor other hosts. because he disagrees with them. A lot of people  do though. A lot of people do. But to his credit, he doesn't. And that's why I've been there for  18 years. There have been other opportunities. to make a I love when people call me a grifter.  I could have been a millionaire by now. I'm not.

a millionaire because I want to speak my mind  and TYT has been the only place that's allowed. me to do it. Good for you. Yeah. I don't think I  mean most people don't host shows so they don't. know the feeling. I have hosted shows so I do know  the feeling. If your audience starts to move out. from under you boy that is cuz that's that's  your strength. That's your core. That's your. revenue of course but more than that that's your  that's your moral backing. Like you you know they. may not like what I'm saying but my people do. My  audience does. And so if they bolt in meaningful.

numbers boy there's nothing scarier. I mean I get  it. Yeah it is scary. I'm not going to lie about. that. I mean, being scared didn't deter me, but I  was more concerned about what it was going to do. to the company overall because if things were bad  enough and we didn't have enough revenue to keep. every employee, people were going to get fired or  laid off. And I wouldn't I would really struggle.

with the guilt. I would feel responsible for  that. And so, I'm glad that that didn't happen. And we're currently we're rebuilding. And it's a  dream come true for me because I want to build an. audience of open-minded people who aren't going  to like run for the hills the second they hear a. point that they disagree with or that they haven't  heard before. Or that they haven't heard before. Exactly. Yeah. Cuz there's I think there's a lot  of that where if you know if you get past the.

initial shock like you'll say something be like,  "Well, first of all, you're not allowed to say. that. Second, I've never heard anybody say that  and I kind of hate you for saying something new. But but I do think that wears off after a moment  and people are like, well actually is that crazy? Is that hateful? I don't I don't think it is. And  you can kind of convince them after that. You have. a decision to make. You can either build a niche  audience and I think that's the worst option. because a niche audience wants to be catered to  and you have to be very careful to follow a very.

specific script. I'm not interested in that.  And I think that I personally went through an. era of being a little bit radicalized on the left  and I regret that because I unwittingly did build. a bit of a niche audience, but those folks What  do you mean radicalized? Um I I totally bought. the narrative that like everyone on the right's  racist, everyone on the right is greedy, that. kind of stuff. So, Trump term one when everyone  just got hysterical about Trump. Yes. Yeah, I get.

it. That was the era that I'm not proud of. Um,  and I was basically building my own prison and I. didn't realize it. And what I mean by that is once  you have a niche audience, you're not allowed to. deviate from a very specific and narrow ideology.  And I don't want that. I'm not an ideologue. I'm. willing to admit when I'm wrong. I'm willing to  recalibrate on policy if I see it implemented and.

it's not working correctly. I ultimately just want  truth. I want justice and I want a country that. represents its people. That's what I want. That's  my core. Do you feel like um it is bridgeable? Like there's so much anger. Mhm. Like and by  the way, I do think the immigration thing and. the crime thing sort of obscure it. Like the real  fight is between educated whites. Like they're the. ones who really hate each other. Really? I think  that. Tell me more about that. Well, I think it's.

um I mean I just know from my own experience. I  often say this, but you know, they called me a. racist for many many years. And I would always say  if I was racist, I would just admit it cuz like. there are worse things. But I'm not. And I would  get so hassled always by the same demographic. And. I would always say to my wife, you know, every  no black person's ever yelled at me. In fact, I've been hugged by a lot of black people. That's  just a fact. I'm sorry. It's just true. And they.

don't seem to think I'm a racist, but it's it's  always middle-aged white women who were yelling at. me at Logan Airport. Mhm. And like, what is that?  No, I'm not whining. I mean, I don't really care, but it's just it's just interesting. And so, I  think it's it's almost like fratricidal. It's like. professional class whites who read the New Yorker,  read the New York Times, like they're truly angry. at each other. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I've just  noticed this. Yeah. I mean, it's I think it's just.

it's propaganda and and this thought that certain  things are way worse than they really are or that. like they're perceived threats I think aren't  real to the extent that they think it's real and. and by speaking out and by confronting you and  by, you know, doing what you're referring to, I think they get a sense of I'm doing something  about it, you know. No, I get it. No, I'm not.

even attacking them. It's just interesting to me  the I mean because it's clear it's totally real. in their minds. This is it is of course not just  performative. It's like I've felt rage before. So and as you so eloquently described like that  rage obscures and I think maybe it's designed to. obscure the reality of like physical degradation  all around us. All around us. Yes. Yeah. So and. I think that is kind of the point. I think it  is to some extent intentional. But but what.

since you do live in that world and have for so  long as rashly as you can clinically as you can, can you explain what they're worried about? Well,  I mean I think I think that their heart is in the. right place. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm giving them  the presumption of good faith for sure. I just. want to know like when some rich lady yells at  me in the ski lift line, she thinks I'm racist. I know they always say that. But then there's  also like there's a fascist takeover imminent.

Is that part of it or what is the worry? Well, I  mean, okay, let's talk about the fascist takeover. because there is a part of me that's a little bit  worried about that. Okay, so not just part of me, a lot of me. And look, I don't know what's in  those women's heads. So I I just don't I don't. understand them. So I feel weird talking about  what they they're thinking and what every person. should be worried about the centralization of  power and the use of technology to strip basic. rights from citizens. Yeah. Like everybody like  the Palunteer stuff concerns me a little bit, you.

know, anytime. Yeah. I mean the technology, not  just Palunteer, but all the emerging technology, supercomputing, AI, all of this stuff, facial  recognition, like it could be used to enslave. the population. Totally. Really easily. Totally.  Yeah. So, I don't know why I mean everyone should. be freaked out about that. Are you worried about  that? Definitely. Um I'm also a little bit worried. about and I don't know how large this group  of people in America happens to be, but you're.

hearing from them more and more. Uh this idea  that no, we we need to move toward a post liberal. and like post-liberal democracy. You know what I'm  saying? like a rejection of the democratic process. overall. Like Curtis Yarvin is one of the figures  who's been kind of preaching about this. He sounds. really dumb. So I don't know how seriously people  really take him, but he's he purports to want a.

monarchy in this country, which sounds insane. It  I look, I'm opposed to monarchy and um the truth, however, is that the trends you're describing have  totally discredited liberal democracy. That's my. fear. And I think maybe it's intentional. So  chaotic that we beg for a dictator. I kind of. feel like that's happening. I hope people aren't  begging for a dictator because you don't like the. fact that the government isn't really representing  your interest right now. Get a load of what it's. going to be like to live under a dictator where  you have no say at all. Right. No. No. I'm talking.

more about like quality of life questions like  if there are home invasions going on and the. homeowner doesn't have any expectation the cops  are going to save him. That kind of stuff. That's. not theoretical. That's like that induces  panic. True. Yeah. It makes me uncomfortable. even thinking about it. Mhm. You know, uh so if  you have a lot more of that, people were like, I don't really give a [ __ ] about voting. What  I care about is my kids not being killed. Yeah. And actually, you make a really good point, which  is why it's so important for Americans who value.

liberal democracy to really start thinking  seriously about saving it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I want. But don't you feel like  when people are under like if you were on a plane. flying across the Pacific that dropped 20,000  feet in a minute and you're saying your prayers. maybe you're an atheist you saying prayers anyway  couldn't control yourself and would what would you. be willing to do or give up in exchange for not  dying? In other words, if you're totally panicked,

you're in freef fall on a commercial airliner.  God, I will do anything. Like that's kind of. what is happening with crime, I think. Yeah. Yeah.  And not just crime. Not just crime. Yeah. I mean, so many issues. It's it is a problem when most  Americans agree on something and our politicians. know it, but they do the opposite anyway. And I  I've been increasingly angry with the fact that,

you know, I feel that the interests of Americans  and how they feel about going to war with Iran, for instance, right? Most Americans do not want to  go to war with Iran, and it didn't matter. Okay? Uh the United States bombed Iran's nuclear sites  on behalf of Israel anyway, which could have led. to a full-blown hot war. It didn't because of Iran  having restraint. But we're not done yet. And so, but don't you feel ashamed that it didn't lead  to nuclear war? This is the new line. I know you.

are wrong. You're an idiot. That's by the way,  that line is stupid. How dare you worry about. that. Yeah, we're not. By the way, it's not over  yet. And they don't get too cocky for the people. making that point. Don't get too cocky. But why is  it shameful to worry about a nuclear war or worry. about a World War III? Why is that? It's being  held up by the normal tiny brain people as like, you know, evidence that you're just a ridiculous  person. Your prediction was wrong. Right. Right. Well, I mean, we didn't have a nuclear war. Shut  up. Well, maybe those folks have a point. Maybe.

maybe we're the we're the baddies. Okay. Maybe um  we should be more concerned about profits for you. know bomb makers and weapons manufacturers and  private contractors and the mercenaries that are. currently uh working over in Gaza to shoot and  kill people as they're waiting for humanitarian. aid. So how does that it does feel like I've spent  35 years not talking about that topic because one.

I don't really have on a native level like super  strong views about it. It's not my country. I wish. everyone well in every country and I mean that.  However, it just got so in my face that I had to. like say four things about it for which I've been,  you know, spent the rest of my life trying to deal. with that the effects of being called those names.  But I feel like all of a sudden like people you. would not expect to weigh in on this like actually  this is too much. Yeah. And I love it. I'm glad. that that's happening and I hope Do you feel  that there's been a change? I do feel it. I mean,

definitely I if it were the Bush years and this  whole scenario were playing out during those. years, the kinds of things I've been hearing  people say publicly, I would not have heard. But I think what's happening this time around is  you really can't deny what you're seeing on the. ground in Gaza. You can't deny what's happening  in the West Bank. you know, not just in regard. to Palestinians, um, Palestinian Muslims, but  also Palestinian Christians. Um, you can't deny.

the fact that that one and only Catholic church  in Gaza was bombed, you know, was attacked. Uh, you can't deny the fact that churches have been  targeted in the West Bank as well. Like, it's. people can lie to us as much as they want, but  the videos are out there. The blow up a church. If you've got munitions, laserg guided munitions  that are so sophisticated that they can take out, you know, a guy in an SUV from 30,000 ft. How  do you blow up a church with a giant cross on.

top of it? It was just an accident, Tucker. It  was an accident. The It's not the first church. that's been blown up. It's not. And it wasn't an  accident. Wasn't an accident. But how could What. is the answer? Can anyone get an answer? I know  the answer. Israel wants a Jewish state and they. want to expand. They have something known as the  Greater Israel Project. They intend to annex the. whole of the West Bank. In fact, Miriam Adlesen,  legally bribe Donald Trump to ensure that that. happens. And Israel announced that that's what  they're going to do, and they're doing it. Um, when it comes to Gaza, I mean, Hamas is so dumb  because the atrocities they committed on October.

7th gave Netanyahu and the Israeli government  the perfect excuse to essentially do what they've. always wanted to do, which is take that land.  They're going to take that land. That's what they. want. They're going to ethnically cleanse whatever  remains of the Palestinian people to they're going. to force neighboring countries probably to absorb  2 million people. And then at the same time, uh they're going to have settlers move  on in, rebuild Gaza. Uh Jared Kushner, by the way, soon after October 7th happened was  like salivating on camera about how that's prime.

real estate. It's disgusting. But anyway,  how can you move 2 million people right now? Well, there was a story published this week,  uh, I believe it was in the New York Times, uh, where Netanyahu and the Israeli government was  in talks with our government in regard to getting. aid from the United States in moving Palestinians  out of Gaza. So, when they bomb the church, it's because they don't want the church. That  land is supposed to be part of the Jewish.

You're not allowed to use my tax dollars to bomb  churches. Like I I'll put up with a lot of stuff, but I think that's and I don't I've said this a  100 times, let me say it again. I don't understand. how any Christian leader in the United States  can sit by and not say something about that. And Mike Cuckabe, who has been a pretty slavish  uh, you know, devote of the state of Israel, and I don't mean that as a compliment. He's a  very nice man, but I disagree with him strongly. Even Mike Huckabe came out and said, "Whoa, whoa,  whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, you can't kill Christians.

and American citizens and American citizens. But I  don't understand why that's not I mean, if that's. not a red line, then there's no red line. I mean,  I think it's it should definitely be a red line. But let me just say, Mike Huckabe made a statement  and that's nice. Um, it's more than Biden was. willing to do. Talk is cheap. Are you going to cut  funding? Are you going to stop sending over your. the 2,000lb bombs that are destroying people's  homes, universities, churches, refugee camps,

hospitals. I mean, Gaza's leveled. Dear Albbala is  like the last remaining portion of Gaza that still. has some structures that people can live in. And  they're currently doing a ground invasion there. They got to destroy it, of course. I mean, it's  so obvious what's happening, and it's so unjust. And this is the area where what democracy. I have  no power. The government's going to take part of.

my earnings that I worked really hard for not  to help my fellow American citizens who might. need health care, who might have fallen on hard  times and can't feed their families and need help. with food assistance. That it's not going to go  to them. It's going to go toward the bombs that. are terrorizing people in Gaza, the West Bank. By  the way, it's going to expand further than that. I mean, they've already annexed part of Syria. Uh  the Syria war, that proxy war, it was a proxy war.

for a reason. Uh Turkey wanted to have influence  and control over the area where the Kurds are at. Uh obviously, Israel wanted to annex portions of  it, and they've been doing it uh ever since Assad. fell. And uh you have a former al-Qaeda leader  as the current leader of Syria who's trying to. capitulate to Israel, but obviously it's not good  enough cuz Israel is still bombing the crap out. of Syria. It's unbelievable. I have no ability to  change it. It seems like the electorate in this. country have no ability to change it because it  doesn't matter which party you vote for, whether.

it's a Democratic uh presidential candidate or  Republican presidential candidate, they're going. to get elected and they're going to get dogwalked  by whoever the prime minister of Israel is at the. time. How how do we wind up supporting an al-Qaeda  leader? I thought we were anti-alaeda. I thought. so, too. I don't know. It makes no sense to  me. But I mean this is this is seen throughout. American history in regard to our foreign policy.  I mean we will fund the Taliban. We'll give them.

weapons to fight you know the communists. We want  to avoid communism and then we turn on them. Um. you know for obvious reasons after what happened  on on 9/11. But I mean I I think it's not well we. were told 911 was done by al-Qaeda. So we've got  to be pretty I mean that wasn't that long ago. We've got to be pretty anti-alaeda cuz like if  if they actually killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11, which everyone says they did, and I'm I'm willing  to believe that, then how in the world could we.

let any al-Qaeda even exist? Wouldn't you venture  to say um it's required to ask these questions if. you want to be a journalist? I would say. And I  would also say, you know, the Syria situation, uh I was always opposed to what we were doing in  Syria. I understood exactly why we were doing it. We ended up killing or abetting in the murder of  an awful lot of religious minorities, aloites, a lot of Christians, and destroying the country.  And um uh you know, I was attacked for you know,

you're an Assad apologist or whatever,  but I don't know anything about Assad. So, are they al-Qaeda apologists? Well, that's the  thing. And we've gotten to a place now where it's. really clear that the 3,000 American lives they  say were lost on September 11th due to al-Qaeda. are less important than whatever political or  geopolitical consideration is driving our Syria. policy. Yeah. And it makes me sick. So that's  like about that's treason of course, but it's.

more than that. That's like a profound moral crime  and it's also a middle finger in the face of every. American. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. If there's one  thing we could expect our foreign policy would. stay consistent on is we're anti-alqaeda because  they killed 3,000 Americans. Yeah. But I I just I. don't I don't Well, I do understand our foreign  policy and what drives our foreign policy. And. um it's it's a black pill for sure. So I'm not  just asking this because you have an Armenian. last name, which you do. I do. But um and I think  you're Armenian. That's why you have an Armenian.

last name. But um but because you did you did a  segment on this what is going on between Armenia. big big picture and Azarbaian. Well there was  about four years ago there was a pretty brutal. war. Uh Azerbanian attacked the Armenians  who were living in this area known as Norno. Carabah. Armenians call it Arts. And historically  Armenians have had roots there. There are ancient.

churches Armenian churches there. And that land,  if you look at a map of where Norno Carabah is, it's like in the middle of Azerban, not exactly  in the middle, but it's basically like let's. say here's Azerban like circle and it's like  kind of off to one side. Negoro Carabah is. and the reason that land was well the whole of  Azerban was controlled by the Soviets, right?

But during that time, Stalin essentially gave the  land that makes up Nagorno Carabach uh to Azerban. like promised that land to them even though that  area was populated by ethnic Armenians and he did. that. I mean Stalin was evil in a lot of ways but  he was also very smart which is the most dangerous. combination. Very smart. Yeah. And so he wanted  both the Azeris and the Armenians to be dependent.

on the Soviet Union. And the way to do that is to  put the ethnic Armenians smack dab in the middle. of you know Azerban. And so it became an issue  because you know throughout history Armenians. uh went to war with the Azeris uh in regard to  controlling that land because most of the people. there were Armenian. They wanted to control that  land. And so what happened four years ago in 2020. is a Azerban's like we want the Armenians out. We  want to take over the land. And they went to war.

Armenia is a tiny country. Russia has provided  security guarantees to Armenia in the past. But. unfortunately in this case, Russia didn't come  to the defense of ethnic Armenians. They said. that the you know security guarantees had to  do with Armenia and not Negorno Carabach. So a. lot of Armenians died. A lot of churches, ancient  churches were absolutely destroyed and bombed and. uh the Azeris engaged in the ethnic cleansing  of ethnic Armenians uh in Negorno Carabach.

They were forced out if they weren't killed  and some of them ended up in Armenia. Um and. Armenia of course is going to take them in. But  it's been really difficult because Armenia is a. tiny country. It's a you know developing country.  It's landlocked and it's surrounded by enemies. and historically has been victimized by Turkey  through the Armenian genocide. I mean, it's been. pretty devastating and it's, you know, I've been  very vocal about what's been happening in Gaza.

and Armenians have been very proud of me for that,  but a few have been like, "Why didn't you speak up. about Negorno Carabach?" I did. I did actually at  the time, but it happened four years ago. But why. aren't the preachers talking about it? I don't.  So, churches were blown up. Yeah. And by the way, I mean, preacher, like religious leaders have  been, but American media doesn't care about. it. I mean, America doesn't care about Armenia at  all. Oh, I get it. It's small country, but I just. the I, you know, the Armenians were persecuted  precisely because they were Christians. I that's.

my read. I mean there's no, you know, yeah, they  were the minority, the religious minority, course, the religious minority uh at the very end of  the Ottoman Empire, end of the first world war, and they were murdered in enormous numbers by  um by the Ottomans, using the Kurds, I think, for a lot of it. And uh the Kurds, we love the  Kurds. Um but I I don't understand. I I just see. this theme, you may disagree with this, but I see  a global theme where the most peaceful religion.

in the world is taking the most abuse and there's  the most murder of Christians. I don't quite know. what that is. And I just am amazed that nobody  says anything in the United States. Yeah. I it's. it's I mean, Armenians don't have a powerful lobby  that can bribe our politicians to care about them. So what's really depressing though is you know we  provide a lot of the weapons that Israel has and.

Israel sold weapons to Azerban to carry out the  ethnic cleansing of ethnic Armenians from Norno. Karabah. What? Yep. Yep. Is that confirmed? Yes,  it's confirmed. It's absolutely confirmed. Israel. sold weapons to Azerbaijan to kill the Christians.  Yeah, that's exactly what happened. You're sure? Yeah. Anyone can look it up. I And look, if I'm  ever wrong, I will admit it. But this is something. I've researched deeply. Where did Azarbjan get  his weapons from? There have been rumors that they.

also uh were sold weapons from Russia, but there  was less confirmation on that. But in regard to. Israel, it's very clear and it's documented. Yeah,  I I sense I sense that theme. Um, and I have a. right to sense that theme because I'm a Christian  and I'm not going to seed that. Right. Sorry. Um, so the Armenians were murdered in by the millions  at the end of the First World War. Where, but they. weren't all killed. Where did they go? So, oh,  thank you for asking me these questions. I really.

appreciate it because there's a lot that I want  to say about it. So, the Armenian genocide um was. perpetrated by an offshoot of an organization of  like it's a group that basically rebelled against. the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire like had  already been persecuting Armenians. There was. the Adana massacres. I mean, massacres had been  happening at the hands of the Ottoman Turks. Now, a group rose up to rebel against the Ottoman  Empire. And those individuals were known as.

the Young Turks. We are not named after those  people. Young Turks in American context means. something entirely different. It means someone  who rebelss against societal expectations or the. establishment. and that's what we do at our show.  So that's why Jenk named it that. I kind of wish. he didn't because it gets confused all the time.  But nonetheless, it's kind of funny that there's. a Turk and an Armenian show. And by the way, um  we talk about the Armenian genocide on the show. all the time. I you know, he's Turkish and he grew  up in a certain context where you you only get one.

side of the story. Of course. Yeah. We we all have  grown up in a Exactly. But to his credit, I mean, through our very difficult conversations at times,  through our debates, he eventually realized, oh my. god, like I was totally brainwashed. The Armenian  genocide is totally real. And we talk about it all. the time on the show. And I'm that's like probably  one of my proudest accomplishments because I could. have turned my back on him, made him out to  just be a terrible person who's unworthy of.

me even like talking to him. But instead, I made  a decision to try to convince him, to persuade. him. And it took a while, but it worked. And to  me, seeing the humanity in someone who has like. a fundamental disagreement that enrages me.  Um, I think that probably out of all all the. qualities that make me human, I think that's my  best quality. My willingness to try to persuade.

before I write someone off is unworthy. That's  a that's a very good quote. Yeah. But anyway, sorry. Uh so the Young Turks rose up to and the  whole thing about the Young Turks was they didn't. like the way Armenians were being persecuted. They  wanted to provide rights to Armenians. And you can. look this up. It's in the history, right? But  there was an offshoot of the Young Turks called. the Committee of Unity and Progress. And they're  the ones who perpetrated the Armenian genocide. Okay? So that's how it happened. 1.5 million  Armenians were slaughtered. There were a lot.

more Armenians who were forced to march through  the desert to Syria. My father was actually born. in Damascus. Your father? My father. Yeah. He was  born in Damascus. When he was 2 years old though, the family wanted to move back to the homeland. My  my grandfather really cared about that. So, they. moved to Armenia. But it was difficult because  at that point when the diaspora was moving back, the Armenians who never left, like there were  cultural differences. Cuz think about it. I mean,

if you're going to an Arab country, you take  on some of their cultural practices and stuff, and then when you go back to Armenia, there's a  little bit of a disconnect, you know, always. So, the prodical son effect. Yeah. So, like there was  a lot of um Armenians who went to Syria, Lebanon. There's a huge Armenian community in Lebanon.  Iran. In fact, there's a huge Armenian community. in Iran till this day. Christian Armenians who are  openly practicing their Christianity and going to.

church in Iran. In Iran? Yeah. Yep. Yes. I have  family members. And the way that Iran Why aren't. they all genocided by Iran? I thought, yeah, you  would think that would happen, right? But no, there are Armenians in. They might not like the  Ayatollah. They might not like the regime, but. what they respect is the fact that they're still  able to practice their religion. They're still. able to go to church for the most part. They're  left alone. And there's a huge Armenian population. in Iran, I think. Yeah. That's the Armenian  diaspora. And they were originally refugees from.

the genocide. Yes. Yeah. I love Iranian Armenians.  They're like among my favorite. They're just I. don't know. I just think that they're actually  a lot more open-minded, believe it or not. Um, the diaspora that I come from is far  more conservative and a little close-minded, you know. So, but anyway, I I just Armenians have  been through a lot. They really have. And they're. all over the world because of the fact that they  were forced out of their own country. They've done.

so well. Yeah. They're hardworking people.  They're good people. Very family oriented. I'm very proud of my heritage, but I'm also very  proud to be an American, you know. And that's the. other thing about Armenians. They really love this  country. They really do. And they feel privileged. to be here. You know, if they immigrated here,  they feel privileged. My parents came here as. refugees in um my dad in the late 1970s, my mom in  the early 1980s. And from where? So from Armenia,

both of them from Armenia. Soviet controlled  at the time. Yes. So at the time uh there was. an effort obviously to continue containing  communism uh but to help refugees who wanted. to flee communism you know when it comes to  immigration I think it's tricky right because I. do think that a lot of people come to this country  and they contribute to it without question. Yeah,

definitely. And I think about the Armenian  community in like Glendel is like the nicest. part of LA at this point, if you ask me. And it's  because it's part of LA County, but it's not part. of LA city. It's mostly populated by Armenians and  Cubans, by the way. And it's beautiful. Glendel, California is gorgeous. You know, they they care.  They care about their community. They care about. their families. They want to work hard. You're  always going to have bad apples. And recently, there was like a crime ring, an Armenian crime  ring that was um caught and taken down. And I'm. glad they got deported. Fantastic. Uh, but most of  them, they really, really care. An Armenian crime.

ring. Yeah. Was there a Mormon crime ring, too? I  don't know. Maybe. I've never heard of an Armenian. crime ring in LA. I mean, look, I don't want it  to paint a picture of Armenians overall because. there's a huge Armenian population and they're  very successful and hardworking and they're great. Oh, I know they are. Yeah. But, you know, you're  always going to have bad apples. It happens. And, um, I have no problem with them. um being brought  to justice and that's was what went down. I think.

the feds actually investigated it and uh it  was a multi-year investigation and uh they. were defrauding you know Medicare. There were  like all sorts of financial crimes were taking. place. Thank you for that. That's really and the  fact that Iran has a huge Christian population. um I just think it's amazing. Mhm. Not explained.  No one ever talks about that because it goes. against the grain. It goes against the narrative  of Iran. And again, that's not to say that the.

Iranian regime is fantastic and I support it.  I don't. And by the way, it's not my place to. determine who governs or who rules Iran. It's up  to the Iranian people to think it's up to you. Hell no. I live in America. I'm an American. Who  am I to tell any country who their leader should. be? Who is our government? Like, we should not  be meddling in those matters in any sovereign. country. It's up to the people of that country  to either rise up and demand something different.

or to reform the system, whatever they want to  do. I'm not interested in regime change. It's. not my place at all. Here you're I am the choir  and you are preaching. Um, so what happens to the. media where you spent your entire life? Like  what does it look like in five years? I mean, I think cable news is in a lot of trouble. Yeah,  because whether people want to believe it or not, I think most Americans are actually pretty  smart and privy to the fact that they're not.

really getting the whole story when they watch  traditional media, when they read legacy media. And so there's a lot more competition now online.  And you have long form like this. We're having a. long form conversation where there's space to  actually explore the complexities of various. issues and people love that. People People want to  be mentally stimulated. I'm never stimulated when.

I'm watching cable news. You know, maybe there  are some examples like sometimes there's like a. debate segment where I'm like, "Okay, that was a  good segment. I like that." I hate the uniformity. of ideology that you get on cable news. often  times that bothers me. I really I will say this, I like Abby Phillips's show on CNN because that  whole show is about bringing all sorts of people. together from different perspectives to hash  it out. And it remains for the most part pretty. civil, but we're disagreeing and we're explaining  why we disagree. And I like that. And she's had me.

on even though I think most people in cable news  probably see me as a controversial figure to some. extent. But they have all sorts of people on and  I love that. I just noticed I was saddened to see. that the one conservative guy, the professional  conservative on CNN, who I think seems clever, I'm not against him personally. I don't know  him, but the second, you know, we learn that, oh, we're going to be bombing Iran now, he's all  in. Yeah, he's all in. So, I feel like he I forget.

his name. What was his name? He's on like often.  I know who you're talking about. But um the thing. that kind of offends me at this point is when  partisan hackery takes place. You know what I'm. saying? Like that. Do I know what you're saying?  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I Yeah, I've heard about it. Yeah. It really annoys It annoys the crap out of  me. I'll give you I've participated in it. Yeah. No, and that's the thing like I give you credit  because you have on multiple occasions admitted.

that like the neoconservative ideology that you  had taken on was wrong. Um, I don't think most. people I think it's evil is what I think. I don't  think most people who are against you on the left. know how often you condemn yourself on your own  podcast about that. So, I just wanted to kind of. draw attention to it. Well, I just think it's  important not to pretend you're something that. you're not and um just be honest and um you  know, I didn't kill anybody. I did cheer on. the deaths of others though, I will say. But, but  whatever. We all make mistakes, but I think it's.

just important to be honest at all times. And  I think that, you know, to the extent you can. Exactly. Yeah. But, um, just going back to the  partisan hackery, I was recently on, you know, Abby Phillips's show and we were talking about  the Epstein files and whether or not, you know, they should be released. I'm in favor of releasing  them. I think the American people deserve to know, obviously. But there was a conservative guy on the  panel who immediately jumped to Well, why didn't. the Democrats do it? And it's like, okay, sure.  Why didn't the Dem I don't I don't care. I don't.

care about the partisan stuff. Okay, Democrats  didn't run on it. I'm not defending them. I would. have liked for them to be the ones who ran on  it and actually did it, but they didn't. The one. who ran on it, well, Trump didn't necessarily  run on it, but he did. His voters want it. His. voters want it. Members of his administration  kept like using the Epstein files as like bait. to like entice the base. And then also at the  same time, while Trump might not have ran on it,

he did use the Epstein files to attack Democrats  like Bill Clinton, right? So you're drawing. attention to that and you're making the release  of the Epstein files a lot more desirable to your. base to then turn around and engage in this like  weird what I believe to be a cover up. Not a good. look. Not a good look at all. So when we're having  this discussion about what's happening at this. very moment and the Republican guy immediately  goes to Democrats bad, it's like okay I know.

the Democrats are bad. Can we just let's talk  about this moment right now where promises were. made but promises are not kept when it comes to  this specific issue or the story itself. I mean. that one of the problems with partisanship is  it obscures the actual issue that I'd like to. know more about. And so the Epstein thing from  my perspective has been long known almost 20. years the guy was a pervert and was involved in  a like apparently a really significant sex ring. Yeah. Okay. With some underage girls in it. So the  whole thing is gross. We knew that. But what is it.

like big picture like what is the where did the  money come from? No one can answer that question. Yeah. How did he make his money? How was he so  wealthy? Nobody knows. Yeah. Why did Les Wexner. give him so much money? Leon Black. Like, what is  that? What's going on? Yeah, I know. I know. So, what do you think the answer is? I think he was an  intelligence asset. That's my suspicion. Period. Doing what? Blackmailing? Yeah, I think it was  a blackmail operation. Why were there cameras.

in the rooms where girls were being raped? What  did he do with that footage? What was the point. of that footage? I have no cameras in any bedroom  in my house. Neither do I. Normal people don't, right? Um, you know, he had relationships  with people that were in intelligence. Um, I mean, obviously Robert Robert Maxwell, Gileain  Maxwell's father, uh, was a hardcore Zionist and. worked for MSAD. I mean, this is well documented.  Yeah. I don't think anyone that and he introduced.

Gileain to Jeffrey Epstein. Um, the fact that  Jeffrey Epstein was a college dropout, but. Bill Bar's father, who worked for the OSS, hired  him to be a math teacher at the Dalton School, which is a prestigious school that would only  hire like prestigious teachers. Jeffrey Epstein. wasn't that. He wasn't a prestigious  teacher. He dropped out of college. Um,

I don't know. There's just a lot of smoke and it's  led to distrust in our institutions. It's led to. a lot of suspicions and I would like to know  and I think this is very important whether we. live in a sovereign country where our politicians  are actually representing us or if we're living. in a situation where a foreign country might  have blackmail on our politicians or people in. positions of power and as a result that blackmail  is being used to force these politicians to pursue.

policies that are not beneficial to the American  people but beneficial to a foreign country. Do you really want to know or will you admit that  it's it's immoral of you to want to know and that. maybe you just can't handle the truth and maybe  you're a hater for wanting to know? I I want more. than just me knowing. I want every single American  to know. That's what I want. Yeah. Last question. Do you sincerely think that anybody on either  side of the aisle, which doesn't even exist,

but whatever, left, right, wherever, could watch  what you've said for the last almost two hours and. come away angry. I I mean, if you're Zionist,  probably. You didn't even say anything against. Zionism. You're just like, I mean, I didn't, but  it doesn't matter. I mean, you're Look, if the. Jeffrey Epstein suspicions are ever confirmed,  that looks really, really bad. And you'd want. to prevent you would want that information to  never come out. So, even talking about it, I I.

feel really offends people for obvious reasons.  And so, I don't know. We'll see. But this is the. message that I want people who might feel angry  to take away from me. Um, I don't give a [ __ ]. That's it. I I can't improve on that.  Hannah, thank you so much. Thank you.

So, it turns out that YouTube is  suppressing this show. On one level, that's not surprising. That's what they  do. But on another level, it's shocking. With everything that's going on in the world right  now, all the change taking place in our economy, in our politics, with the wars we're on the cusp  of fighting right now, Google has decided you. should have less information rather than more. And  that is totally wrong. It's immoral. What can you. do about it? Well, we could whine about it. That's  a waste of time. We're not in charge of Google. Or. we could find a way around it. A way that you  could actually get information that is true,

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