Wringing in the New Year | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

Welcome to what? Now, another episode of the podcast with this time I'm in South Africa, and if you've listened. to enough of the podcast, you'll know that when I'm in South Africa, that means I'm with my people. And when I'm with my people, we create different episodes. On one of the first ones I did, I did for my 40th birthday was Anele, a good friend of mine. She's a broadcaster. She is, an executive producer, an all around media mogul, and most importantly, a supermom. And my other friend Sizwe Dhlomo, he's a TV presenter,

a radio host, business person and economics. I think he has a degree in some. He studies a book, whatever. The point is, he's a friend, and we're going to be chatting together. Disclaimer for everyone who listens, these are South Africans. I'm including myself. So we're going to talk like South Africans and, yeah, whatever happens, happens. because when my friends and I do a podcast, we try and make it as informal as possible. So if you're looking for like the dictionary definition. of like a simple podcast, you came to the wrong place.

Scroll to the next one in your feed now and enjoy that. But if you're looking for like an honest get together of three human beings who. love, respect and fight with each other, then you've come to the right place. Welcome to Watermelon. This is what now. with Trevor Noah. And. One, two.

Three. Four. I declare a thumb war. One. Two. Three. No, that sounds crazy. I think that I think this sounds great. We hearing nothing even put something is. Yeah. You your face went pitch. What you think I am? Laughing oh. Oh man. You look at me like hey this, this is who I is. Oh, that is so genius than I am. I am like so welcome guys. Happy new year.

Happy new year. And you still say Happy New Year. Yeah dude. Of course, until you mean until. Okay. What's your what's your cutoff? I mean, you know, Valentine's Day depends on. Well, I know you. It also depends how well I know. Yeah. Okay. So with you guys it's like okay you pushing, you know. But it's a week. So we are at the cost. Yeah. All right people you close to. You should have said helping you in the 1st of January was not close. I've never thought of like a scale. Like a gradient for when you can see the spectrum, bro. Yeah. You you you them you truly a math guy for everything. Caesar's got like a graph for everything.

The x axis is friendship time. Then the y axis is. But remember, since we didn't have friends, he's got cousins. We are the first friends in Caesar's life. Please let's remember. So happy. Happy new year. Happy new year. What is. there for you to you two? Yeah, man. Stranger. What do you mean, stranger? I guess you said you a friend you should have said was. Oh, wow. Okay. Came back with that. Okay. You all right? All right. At least you on form. We're in the mix.

I think differently about the conversations we're going to have. because I enjoy. delving into your minds. as friends, but also as problem solvers. And then I find sometimes when we have these conversations, like. the last one we did on the podcast, people were just like, oh yeah, it was an interesting conversation. And you guys, your friendship. And what I realized is friendship is almost the. the cooking apparatus that we use to figure things out. Does that make sense? Because everyone can have a conversation. But I find when you have a conversation with your people,

there are extra ingredients and extra tools that you have, namely. your friendship that defines. some of the conversation that you can't get through with a stranger. I think it's good to have a conversation with your friends, because we can say, I. don't say that one in public. Yeah, keep that one here. Do we? Do think that sort of thing. Yes. You do to us. Oh no no wait wait wait wait wait no no no no. But I and this is an honest question. Yeah. In fact, this is a great question to to kick us off. because because the the conversation I wanted to have with you was,

what are you worried about going into the new year moving forward. Right. Because a lot of people have like a positive outlook. Yeah. But I'll start with that. Funny enough. Do you think canceling is still a thing. I think it's finished. I think the attempt to cancel is still way. and the fact that there could be an attempt to cancel. you means that you could still be canceled, because you could be ducking and diving catch one stray that does cancel you. So canceling is still a thing. This is why it is important to ask your friends first. They call them WhatsApp conversations.

You know sometimes. Sometimes you'll tweet something you put on. Instagram and someone be like, hey, yeah, you with your friends with that one? Test that out. Yeah, it's I think it's definitely still a thing. I don't know, because if you lose 10% of your income, it's still 10% of your income that you've lost. Oh, do you know what I'm saying? You. So you're looking at even like micro cancellations looking at like. yeah erosion cancellations. Yeah. It's like, you know I was just talking about like your canceled. It feels like it's finished. Like it feels like we were at a peak.

So here's the thing. If I'm using an departure points right. then I don't necessarily want to take it to cancellation and loss of income. I would just look at it as just how humans interact. And the first thing is, some people don't know who they are. That's the first thing, okay. Then other people know who they are, but the uncomfortable with who they are okay. Oh, damn. So now when you have a conversation, there are certain things.

that they want to hold back, specifically when they're with strangers. because they don't want the strangers to gain insights. to the part that they're uncomfortable with, like their racism or xenophobia. All of that. Yeah, okay. And it could be anything. Maybe you're freaking just like, too much. Okay. Now, so your friends, you know, you're a freak now. Your friends already know, like, at least one of your friends. There's nothing. There's nothing. Yeah. There's nothing. Yeah, that I can see that can shock you guys. Yeah. At least one of your friends in in the event that you die in a dodgy place.

Yeah. One of us must be like. Yeah, well, yeah. So now I knew they went there. He. Exactly. I knew he frequented, you see, freaks. So now we have those conversations. Did you go okay, okay, okay. So let's go back a little bit. And again, it's not because you fear being canceled. It's just again, there are certain things. that are just appropriate and others that are inappropriate. That's all it is. Things that are appropriate to in public and things that are inappropriate. Yes. You get like inner thoughts and outputs. It's okay. Agree with it. I like how you said this, like you studied it in a textbook. It was like nothing come from you.

You're so robust. Thank you. Yeah. No, that's what I mean. But you're so robotic in your thinking that it really. sounds like literally the way you said. that there are inner thoughts and there are outer thoughts. Humans only do inner thoughts in. I know he's you've been been I you really have. All right. So why don't we go around? Well, first. I want that the high level of what you what you worried about for the year. You know, as we go into the future. And by the way, it's not not even just for the year. It's rather what you are most concerned about. at the beginning of the year that you think may be a thing.

because, you know, like every year has a different feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I have two. Do you want me to give you the two now or the one round the round. Give, give, give us the two now and then I want to. Yes. And then I'll, I'll give you mine and then we'll, we'll see where we can. The first one is my son's turning ten this year. And he's reaching the part of his life where he no longer looks inside the home. for role models and who to mimic him for, and he's going to look externally. And this wasn't something that was, you know, on, you know, top of my mind. until we went on holiday. and he made a friend, a friend with a decision problem, problem.

that by the end of the holiday I had to say to him, give me a phone. Did you add this boy's number as a deletion? Block him. We are not going to be friends with him. Type of thing. And then it had me thinking that, you know, we had a point now where. I just have to make sure that his self-esteem is so high. and his confidence is so unshakable that things like that don't impress him. He has to remember how he was raised. That I love this. Don't don't say morning. Don't say it. Okay, so the problem we got the problem.

That's this is all the worry. Yeah. All right. What's your second worry? Last year we had a Christmas party. Right. And everybody had to stand up and say what they grateful for. Yes. Obviously people are grateful for, you know, work and you know, good relationships and, you know, being financially sound. Yeah. Somebody. stood up and said that he is grateful. for how he out of 60 people, he's the only one who said that. And it got a lot of us thinking that, you know, we had a place.

where anything could be something like, right now. I have an issue with my shoulder and I'm it's going to take it out. He goes, I'm so scared they're going to say something like, oh, you've got six nines. I'm like, no, I've got things to do. I can't have six months. And I promise you, my health is something that is just starting to. appear in my list of things that I worry about, thinking. a lot more than it did, because sooner or later, you know, you have to come to terms that you're not immortal,

you're not going to be around you for long, you know? Damn some very okay. So existential worries in different ways sees what are you worried about. So this year per se, not too much. Last year I was worried about maybe the possibility of World War three, I don't think. Oh, so now it's ended for you? Yeah. It's not what ever now. Wow. These guys fumbled the football. What they fumbled the World War for. They fumbled the opportunity. to to stop because you this you can ask but somebody say it's like no. All of them like I just say it's real.

You have the opportunity to start World War three football on the big day. So okay. I mean, you're no longer worried about war. I mean, you know, I mean, that's a great way to start. But in the short to mid term, I am worried about the type of world that my kids will grow up in. You've got kids in theory. Okay. Yeah. You know, because you never know. Your friends can now like bounce things so, so and it's more to. what I was talking about is all right, because you can do everything in your power to protect your children.

and those that you love within the ambit of your circle, but then they need to exist in a community writing where they go out. Amen. And I'm seeing that we just getting too liberal right now. And some of those things are going to come back to bite us. Okay, I like this. All right. Great. So unless worry is your son. is now at an age where he's looking externally for role models. Second thing you worried about is you at an age where anything is an internal. Yeah. Is something something? Yeah.

Okay. CS we're no longer worried about World War three. Q but worried about the world that his children will live in, because now there will be a world. So now you've got different problems. Okay, cool. The thing I'm worried about, maybe it touches a little bit. on what you're saying, but I worry that the, I worry that the global experiment has failed or is failing. What's the global experiment? So. I think for a long time, we were seduced by this idea. that the whole world could come together as one.

And I think a lot of it was a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade. Okay. You know what I mean? We always traded, don't get me wrong. We always traded, but a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade. So like the euro union, you know, it's like oh and then BRICs Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, it's like, these blocks that have all come together. And so Europe at some point was like, we don't have a border. You know, if you are European, you can go everywhere in Europe. Yeah, yeah. I think that that is starting to fail because.

yeah, I don't think we thought far ahead enough or I don't know if we, you know, crossed all the T's and dotted because we also never did it. Did you always believe in it? I was just told it. I was too young to, like, believe or not believe I believed in it. Oh, you did believe in it. But I don't tell you. I don't think. this is anything new. If anything, I just think we need more perspective. Because if you go into history and just look at how. each civilization has a lifespan, it usually ends like this.

Yeah, but that's what I'm. You're just now talking about my worry. Yes. And you just have to worry. Yeah. You don't know, because. Listen, here's what me, you just said to me. Oh, let me tell you what. Let me just tell you what you just didn't write. Now, this is what I did. I was on a plane, and I said, I'm a little bit worried. that this plane feels like it's going to go down. And I said, well, if you look, statistically, most planes crash around this age, so you're right. But you don't have to worry. You literally bleed.

Let me finish. All right. Go. You 100% correct. So all civilizations do come to an end, but it has to be that way. so that a civilization may begin. Yes. Right. You just have the kind of perspective now at your age, or you 40, 41, where you've seen things go from where they were to where they are. Okay. Right. But it's not to say the world is going to end tomorrow. No I'm not. I don't even think. Right. But you're 100% correct. Things are deteriorating at a rapid race. All right, so which one do we start with? Which which worry do we want to handle for.

I'll actually I actually would love to start with you one. Yeah I like you know okay. We've been there. Yeah. That one you can give you okay. What works. So before I say anything on it, take me through a little bit. about how you feel like as a mom of a son, ten years old. Like, I understand you saying you worried that he's now going to get external influences, but why is that a worry and not, like, necessarily a joy? Oh, because I, they already have been external influences, right.

Just even YouTube. as an example to that relationship that you guys have with I like it. is bordering on an uncle like father figure and all of that. Right. And so I, I think it's the, the older people because I get to choose them. We must remember that. Oh, for very long time I get to choose who is around you. I'm honored that you chose me, not after I was just like you sheltered in. But I'm glad you chose me. Thank you. And now with that. Is that he. You know, also he can't. He can't control who is going who is going to meet type of thing.

Yeah. So granted, yes, somebody may spark his his interest and it will be in a good way. But along the line it's going to be in a bad way. And I just want that he's to know that he's able to decipher. and decide for himself that, oh, you know, this one is this one is not the one. So tell us the story about him meeting this kid. Where did you meet the kid? And how did you know the kid was bad? And why do you think I like it? Was unable to discern between the good and the bad of the kid. I prefer. Kid was outright rude. Then I'm like, oh, is that it? Okay. You know, hey, you know, I'm like, okay, kid, let's clear up.

But this one, it was just like slight discipline issues where if we say, hey guys, let's all go. We're going now. Yeah, he'll stay in the pool. Almost like looking at me to see are you going to come in the pool type of thing? Sizing you. Yeah. Sizing. Yeah. Constantly sizing me up. But then I suppose that's the relationship that he has with his parents. You know, where he's constantly pushing the boat. You know, the bunk. That old was the same age is like they actually seven days apart. They discovered, oh, we're best friends, you know, seven days apart.

I'm born this day. He's born that day. So I'm like, oh, okay, so what, you said get out of the pool. Yeah, guys. He then looked at you. Yeah, like. And then what did you say? I said, Woody, I said get out of the pool. You know, and you kind of like waddled around a little bit as well. Yeah. Because I'm trying to picture it's pretty gangster for somebody. to be wading and and challenging looking you in the eyes. He doesn't respond. No, it doesn't mean I can't say that's easy. That's a G right there.

But you see, this is what I'm saying is that come out and say we're fighting. So I know which often I'll do to, you know, to activates everything. So now when you're doing this, is this really. Oh, he has fired me. And then. So now now I take, like, a few, because I was also in the pool, so. Oh, were you in the pool? No, I was swimming with. And then I got. Okay. Got it. So it's also a case of kid. Please understand, I'm not too lazy to jump back in. Yeah, I will come and fit you type of thing.

Right. And now now I'm looking at I like and he's, he's almost like. he's, he's, he's at the step of the pool. He's his friend. He's inside the water and his is outside. So it was, it was a moment where he was deciding what was the psychological tug of war. Yes Woody you know, does he want to be good or does he want to be cool. Exactly. You know, so now so that's I was like, okay, so it was a few of those things. Maybe we in the room were like, okay, we're going for dinner now. Everybody's ready. This kid, I'm like, hey, let's go.

You know, ten minutes now he's standing outside. Even my partner's like, wait, wait. But now our child is standing with us. We're not we're waiting for a stranger's child, you know, because we just met you, if I may ask. So what heritage is this child? Is this the same as? I like everything, guys. When I say, wow, that was interesting. Yeah. So you didn't even have, like, a little African swag. You could pull out just a little something. Yeah. No, no, not at all. Wow. Not at all. This is actually more dynamic and interesting. I was picturing a white kid and I was like, no, no, this is a black kid.

Oh, wow. Yeah. When you think about it, I nearly sphere your fear. And my fear, this same fear ran me through that. So to kind of, like, break it down. In a nutshell, you just got to ask yourself, are you comfortable with the world raising your child? If you were to say to your child, out into the wild in the wilderness, which is, yeah, yeah. Are you comfortable with this little person did come back. Is. you see, this speaks your question.

and kind of speaks to my fear as well as what I was saying, that, you know, the job now is to make him so confident and have a high self-esteem. and understand who he is, that he doesn't have to be taken by those things. But the truth of the matter is, at that age, because he missed me. But we pretty now we're going to. Yeah, yeah. At that age you are you are questioning a lot of things. Yes. You know what you were taught. But there are other lessons coming from the outside. and they're not always going to be good. So I don't, I don't I'll probably butcher some of it. I'm bad with remembering numbers, but there was a child psychologist.

who once told me, for boys. and girls are slightly different, but I believe from like zero to 2 or 3. Yeah, it's all mom. It's just all mom. All right. And then I think from like three to like seven, ten and it changes for boys. and girls. It's mom and dad in terms of like, just like parental household vibe. But then to your point, they say for boys specifically, once. they hit like ten, 11, 12, somewhere there, it's all about uncle, as they call it this. It's all about other men or male figures outside the household.

Could be a coach. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Just like they're the ones who now captain of the football. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. The numbers are actually 0 to 7. Is mom 7 to 14 is is dad or uncle and then 14 to 21 is external. But because but who's external. You give us a specific one. So the first two. No. But you must remember that. because kids are growing up at a rapid pace as well. Yeah. For me and this is not so this is not scientific or whatever. I just think that at ten now.

Yeah. It's happening. Yeah. Yeah that's possible because also he is going out a lot more than a normal. child would have gone out as a ten year old 20, 30 years ago. Is there a part of you that wonders if your mom Tai Chi has been enough? Yeah, there is. There is the fact that he questions it because you must remember, some people just go along with it immediately. Yeah, yeah. Let's do this. We go. I can see the thought process in like, his mind when he goes into it. And then like, you know, I can think.

I, I can see it, I can see it. But also, you know, I've been very careful in. because I don't want my child to be scared of me right at all. I don't want that, I want it. Ha, ha. I'm joking. Yes. Yeah. That's. Oh, wow. Yes. Carrie, I'm so glad that entertained you. Yeah. Such a mom. You know, it's just such a funny line.

I don't want my child to be scared of me, but I do want him to. To know that this this is the line and this is the line. Right. And to to respect and, you know, to respect me. and just to respect other people and also to respect somebody's decision. that they're not going to like, you know what? I respect that you want to do this, but I am not going to do that. And that's frankly really all, all, all I want. So now did you explain to I like we'll call this anonymous kid x, y x. This behavior is not acceptable in this household.

Yes, yes. Did he pick it up though. Yes he did. Oh so he saw this happening? Yes. And as we're walking back to our room, he was walking so far ahead. because he knew he knew that we want to have, you know, the chat with him. But then I did the most gangster thing right? Yeah. I didn't say anything because I could see he was like it was chewing. Interesting. I didn't say anything and I just asked and I said, you guys behavior at the restaurant was really not,

what what we like about you and what we've told you this like, no, I understand. And then he quickly named exactly what he done. What the say a child x you know, this is like, oh, this I like. Yeah okay okay. And it quickly like but but then because we're asking him. because to a point where they weren't within us seeing what they were doing. But then they came back. and they just like dissolved and wait, like they were playing with water. Some people think, yeah, but he so he explains what happened. I'm not buying the story, but explain what happened to my partner. My partner is buying this and he was buying it. Whatever guy to guy as well. They had like a little mano a mano, you know, like that. Right? Actually you handle it.

You, me out of it. Fine. Go to bed. Three in the morning, I wake up because I want him to tell me the story. again as he's just woken up going to go into his room. They go into his room. and I go to the holiday room. Put the lights on, everything. The lights are on, you know. But he doesn't wake up because the lights are on. But I just want that when I do wake him up, the lights are on, the lights are on. So I can see his immediate reaction. I ask him, just give me that story again.

Run it by me again because I didn't quite catch it. I just want to rewind to the point when you said. I don't want my son to be scared again, bruh. We had a resort. We had a resort drill sergeant and turn on the lights. a 320 to interrogate you bruh, to interrogate you. So John, the lights then. Then I get into bed with him and then I nudge him. I'm like, get Bubba, wake up. If your exam is like, oh, so dumb bastard, I'm not. No, no. Just quickly. I didn't quite hear that story. Wow. I just wow, run it by me again. What, what?

And then he ran. He said it and I was comfortable with the answer. And then I was like. But you do understand that this is not behavior that we are accustomed. He's like, no, I get it. And I know that was wrong. And this while I was apologizing and I'm like, okay, cool. I just want you to know that the story was the story. and there wasn't anything else that I need to address. And I said to him, because you know, that some kids don't come. Kids don't come from the same backgrounds and from the same homes. Yeah, but. in other houses they leave the lights off and they literally until the morning. That's how other houses do it. Words.

But in this house. Wow. You know. So yeah you but also when I did that because then I got back. and then my partner's like it was in front, I'm like yeah, it's fine. And then like then when I woke up in the morning, I told you. he was like, no, no ways. And I'm like, yeah. And I said to him, you know what? I've never been a mother to a ten year old before, so I'm also winging it type of thing. Yeah. That's true. I'm also winging it, much like he's never been a ten year old before. And with all these emotions and everything that's going on with him.

So we just going to have to figure each other out. And I have to like, negotiate with a ten year old terrorist. essentially is and just hope. that the logic coincides with yours. You know, I don't know if I ever told you the story. So Isaac, my youngest brother, right. Him and the middle brother was staying with me in LA, and they'd come to visit me and it was this whole thing. And we're there for, like, Christmas. And they now gotten to an age where they're big enough. that I have to negotiate with them,

but they're still young enough that they do crazy shit. Right. So one day we all having, we having dinner together, we order food and then we, but we plated. I was like because I want them to feel civilized. You know what I mean. Because I was like I'm also the person who eats at the box. But I want let's do like a family thing. Let's put. take the food out of the out of the box and put it on a plate like we cooked it. Cool. So we all eat. We we put things together, everything's great. We're done. And. when we're done, it's time to clean up. And I say, guys, help me. Let's take everything to the kitchen.

And I take like one ball, one glass. My brother stack everything. They stack, stack, stack stacks, stack everything. And I'm like, what are you guys doing that we're taking it to the to the kitchen. Those guys. Guys take one thing at a time can come back. My other brother's like, he's like, oh, but I can do this, I got this. I was like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not about whether you've got this dick one thing at a time. You're stacking like, everything. You know what I mean? He's like, yeah, but I'll be fine. I was like, no, no, no, no. You think you'll be fine until you're not fine?

Please just take one thing at a time. He's like, okay, so I go to the kitchen with the one thing, and now, you know, we're doing that thing where we're crossing. So one person goes to the table, other person, one person goes to table. As I'm at the table with the youngest, Isaac, we're chatting. I hear smash on the other side of the house, glass shattering. And you know, you know what? It's not even like I'm like, oh, is there break in? I know exactly what glass that was. So go to the kitchen like, yo, bro, what happened? Oh, yeah. The glass dropped. I'm like, the glass didn't just drop, just drop. because you took more things than I told you to.

And then he's like, oh yeah, my bad. Then I'm like, no, not your bed, not your bed. I told you the thing. So now we're having this like, you know, and he's not even fighting. He's being like very polite and everything. And so now the youngest is like running with the stuff. So he's doing one and one, but he's sprinting back and forth. So I'm like, okay, no running so many rules to the this is what he says. He's like, jeez bro. He's like so many rules. I'm like, yes, these are the rules. for how you make sure that the stuff in your kitchen stays around, right? And also you don't hurt yourself. You see.

So he's running. guys at some point I go, yo, I said walk slowly, take the things one by one. Don't. He's like, yeah, but I run all the time. I'll be good. I was like, yo, just take the things he's like, but why do I have to do it? You and I'll never forget this. In that movie he's like, why do I have to? And I was like, cause I said so. And you. know, when, like, every parent flashed in front, I was like, I have become death became Raven. But defensiveness. No, he didn't. But I've always said my, my, my youngest brother's probably the smartest person. we've ever had in our family and the most emotionally intelligent.

He said with it, he did what I said, and he came back. maybe like ten minutes later, you know, now there's like, a weird feeling in the house. But he came back to me and he said, he said, hey, Trev said, I just wanted to apologize for what happened. I didn't mean to offend you. I was like, yeah, I get it. I'm sorry to, you know, he says. But here's the thing. He's like, the reason I keep asking you why. When you tell me to do things, not because I want to undermine who you are as a person. He's like, it's. because I don't understand why you doing things the way you do them.

So if I just do them the way you do them, I never really believe in it. I'm just doing it because I've learned it as a rote identity. He's like, but if I actually learn why you do it the way you do, then maybe I can adopt it as my own. And then if I'm challenged by somebody or something, one day I'll know why I do it. So the reason I ask you why is not because I'm challenging. Here's my big brother. It's just because I really want to understand why you actually do it. Because I want to be a robot. I want to be a human being who believes in my actions. So,

you know, you. know what it made me realize is like, I realize that every parent. and every adult figure in a child's life will have that frustration. You're you're bound to be frustrated because you will propose. every idea through the lens of logic and experience. But your kids, rightfully, I think, in many ways, are also here to test. what those boundaries are. If every child, even us, think of us, the three of us. sitting here and everyone who's listening. If you did everything the way your parents did, it's.

half the time you wouldn't be where you are. You wouldn't have discovered a new way to work, a new type. of job, a new career, a new country, a new language, a new sports, a new religion, a new style of dressing, a relationship. Yeah. Like you literally have to break what they've taught you to make something new. And the difficulty, as you say, is we're all winging it. We don't know what will or won't work. It's just in these moments where you go, look, when we say, get out of the pool, get out of the pool.

But it's a tough one because it's like, do you have a. because I've never had a friend who's a mom. You get I'm saying like a friend. Friend. Thanks for you know what I'm also like it's so easy to break up with the friend. Know what I'm saying? You know, what I'm saying is so, so what I. What I'm saying is, I've never been in the position where I can say this to you. and ask you honestly, like, do you have a it's not like you can have a fixed number, but do you have a number of how much you're.

willing to tolerate his boundary pushing because you think it might be. what creates something bigger and more beautiful than you've ever considered? Definitely. But the thing that we parents are doing now is you. We very willing to question the school that he's at, because there's so much. writing in the kids on writing anymore. Let's take him to a school that just does robotics and everything. It's all right. Yeah, it's it's all or supporting. Right? Oh, my child is so good at this. Maybe I should take him out of the school. because he's going to play for the Springboks. He's going to play for the Proteas and all of that. But I think when it comes to, you know, just discipline and emotion.

and all of that, as parents we very much holding onto, you know, what you believe at that at that moment in time it's very difficult. And I tried very hard with with my son. We I'm like okay, level of me. Talk to me. You know, explain to me what was you thinking when you were doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So that I can understand. because like you said, I'm 40 and he's ten and we really we we different times. Right. You know, different times, different ways of parenting as well.

And I didn't have that with my mom or my dad. It was what they say. So you know, that's the rule. That was the rules also because it's like I'm paying for the house. I'm paying for the learning. So, you know, as long as you live under this house, under this under this roof, you are going to, you know, type of thing. And I don't want that with the house. You know, simple things as well. Like people ask me, why do you knock when you go into your son's room? You know, it's your house? I'm like, yes, but it's his room. Did you knock at 3 a.m.? You didn't. That was a he was. That was a surprise. And also that's a hotel. That's his. Oh okay. Oh, nice.

Nice. Okay. I see you see like, you know, in law enforcement finds all these loopholes. Oh, we didn't need a search warrant because it wasn't your home. Not as often as a visitor saying it was sanctioned by the Minister of Tourism. Right. You keep sitting there. So, so why do you knock? And I'm not because I want him to knock when he's coming into my room. Right? Yeah, yeah. You want to you want to model the behavior. And here's the thing is that I want to show you that I respect your privacy. because everybody else in the world must also respect your privacy, dad.

Because if I. How can I say I'm allowed to? Not to respect your privacy. But everybody else must respect your privacy type of thing. Okay, so I basically treat him. the way I want the world to treat him so that he can no is like no. Back at home. This is how I'm treated. And you're not treating me the way that I'm treated at all. Well. So this is not going to fly. And that's all you want your kids to be about. We're going to continue this conversation. right after this short break.

And did you ever have a bad influence? Because I know you weren't the bad influence. Yeah. So bad influences are everywhere. No, but I'm saying as a kid, like did you have did you have a friend. where they were like, your bad. because I was the bad influence in many ways, yes, I will say, but I also think I had many friends. I think we were renegades together, to be honest.

I think in my formative years. No, no, you didn't know. Wow. Because majority of the people that were around me were handpicked by my parents. So you come back to the cousins? Exactly. Even my friends. It was really because my parents were friends with these people. And then they'll be like, we're going to those dinner, okay? He was my friend I didn't like. It's not like I. So it's do we to be my friend. It didn't work like that. But here's my thinking in the approach and I obviously. I think you're doing it well. I think all you can do look at it like coding.

You just introduce the fundamentals. right to your child and then tell him a computer coding. Yes. Okay. But even with human beings. Yeah. Because essentially it is a system anyway. Because we robot. Because we are. Yeah. Aren't we all good. Oh aren't we, aren't we. So you see using a program I agree with you. So this program is to be. I'll delete. Right. So once you've got the fundamentals in place and they understand them.

and obviously you guys are in agreement with the fundamentals are. then you can go to like intermediate programing and tell them. okay well now with these fundamentals that you fully understand. Yeah. What do you think the right thing to do in this situation is. And then he will tell you and then you go well actually. that is the wrong thing to do. I like it because if you do that, for example, Isaac, I know you used to running, but there's a possibility you may slip. and you can gloss and you will get impaled by this glass. That's why it's rather safer for you to just walk right by running.

Yeah. You save a little bit of time, but we in no rush. This is like. Okay, cool. Very logical. But that's how life is. What else you used? You sound like you've never been a child. No, but listen to me, guys, I knew. Let me tell you something. Yeah. When I was opening the TV in the living room. Yes. And I was opening it like. Yeah, I'm sorry. The whole thing. Yes. Okay. Logically, I knew everything. I screwed the TV too, but I had logic for it. Okay? I wanted to see how the TV works. Oh, same with me.

And as a result, I was able to fix things at home. I was a guy, like, dude, maybe by like eight. I was a handyman at home. Yeah, I my dad understood. I couldn't have been the handyman unless I broke my toilet. But I'll tell you what. When things were wrong. and I fixed it without even paying it since, boy, was he glad I broke that toy. Okay, you see, so that's that silly idiot. Yeah. You see what you see? Now, here's the thing. Now that's. It's funny. It comes. It comes back around to like, is there a reward on the other side. is always a reward.

I'm told I was a highly inquisitive child. I guess I still am, even as an adult. Yeah, right. And the thing with questions is you just gathering data points. That's all you do. You gather gathering data points, and you going to later. use those data points that you've collected and go, oh, okay. Well, when I start to this, you told me this is isn't it. So maybe I should go this way. There's a lot of things I never get to experience. and still have no inkling I really want to experience them, but I've learned major lessons. from other people, and the experience of those things.

So when you now withhold those answers, and you. Just because I said so, you nipped in the bud by saying yes, because I said so, you are starving. Isaac, of the data points you need. Yeah. In order for them to be able to come up with the decision, which will then obviously make sense to him. Yeah. The wrong all the right. All right. Well if you need you know outside models real role models you let us know. No, no I'm covered. You must you must let us know I mean, but me. No, I'm. I'm probably going to say even at this age, I will bring a little.

bit of bad influence, but always respectful. One thing my teachers always said. Trevor's very respectful, but he's very troublesome. He's very disruptive in the class, but very respectful. and oftentimes does not apply himself, but very respectful. There was no disrespect in what I was doing. Do you know what I mean? No no, no. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. I was the one who put the firecracker in the toilet, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. That is correct, ma'am.

Why, Trevor? Why? Because we wanted to see what happens. The thing about being a child, being inquisitive as well, is that it could be on the bad side of things. Yes, because that's. That's what I see. Worry. Because people always treat like being inquisitive, like, oh, it's such a wonderful thing. It's a great trait. He's so inquisitive. But if he's inquisitive. as to what's going to happen, if at age nine, he takes the call, yes. Right. That's not a good thing I did that. Yeah, I thought about that. About what? Taking the call. Why did you do it? So our driveway was like a bit of an incline.

Yeah. So when I was leaving, I would have been fine. But then when I was driving back, the car obviously would have had, like, hummed a little bit. Then I thought, what if my dad thinks the car is getting stolen and then he shoots me? Then I. was like, Jim, I would rather not take this car. The sentence would end like that. Me too. I didn't think the sentence would end like that. Yeah. Wow. I think grounded, like grounded or get a I don't think I thought, I thought, I thought my dad was the worst thing that could happen.

You could think because getting stolen issued me. Okay. But now we mustn't stick on this one because everybody's got to worry. Now we're going to spend the next hour. discussing not only my worries, but our worries. All the same. We solved this is this is interesting. Okay, okay. So. Okay, then let's let's. But wait. She's raised a very good point. We just glossed over it. It actually is the answer. What she spoke about his self-confidence right. And belief in himself okay. That actually is the answer to everything. And because if if I don't think it is.

But finish. Finish what? You okay? It's autism. No, no, but you've got everything. If his self-confidence is strong enough, right, then peer pressure will never be an issue. And we know, for example, that I like. He's very smart already. He's super smart. So he knows what right and wrong is. What usually sways people from wrong is the external influence. If he's strong enough and believes in himself, you can say, hey dude, I hear what you're saying, but that's not how I was raised. That's not how we roll. And so already he's kind of insulated from the external influences of the world.

So I'll just say you'll never, like, go wrong. But he's unlikely to go as wrong as other people who are just amoebas. And he go with the flow. A lot of people end up in trouble. They're like, yo, dude, I don't even want to be here. I told you guys, just not go there. Now you're showing us how you see. So I hear what you're saying. One caveat I'd like to throw into this. And one counter argument is, if we live in a. world where everyone completely believes in themselves, I think we have a little less social cohesion.

We should never take for granted how powerful peer pressure is in society. So when you're on the road. and you see that you could drive in the emergency lane. and just get ahead of everyone, peer pressure is the only thing keeping you back. Yeah, you might be like, oh, the police don't no, no, no. But beyond that, there's an element of knowing that every other road. user is in some way, shape or form going to be against you. And you're like, I'm not going to do it. when you're standing in a line at an airport or anywhere else. and you see that you could cut and you could get ahead.

Peer pressure is the only thing like stopping you from doing. You're not going to get arrested, dude. You get I'm saying I think there's a there's a weird. balance and we don't know what the knobs perfectly are, but the world knows. But the way you look interesting that you say that, no, we don't know what the balance is, but the world all is fine tuned. You. So okay, my argument is this. And this may sound a little anarchist, but it's not. But like, I don't believe we know and I don't think there is a right. because I think every piece needs to exist. So like on the one hand, you need like a renegade to be like a Steve Jobs.

Let's say we don't know we're going to do this. And people like you can't do it, and it's like, we're going to do it. And then he does it. And then now everyone's like, oh yeah, this is how it should have been. But then there's also some renegades who are like Jeffrey Dahmer. Jeffrey Dahmer didn't suffer from peer pressure, I'm assuming. I don't think he was like, what are my friends going to say? He did his thing. He did his friends one hell. So no no no no. So so here's the thing. So all I'm saying it, all I'm saying is. I believe that there isn't one fixed way or not way. I think a system will always like find entropy. It will always find the place. where it exists for the best of what it is trying to do.

But I, I think you can create a child, or you think you can try your best. to create a child who does not care about what anyone else says. And I think those types of people. of assholes in the world as well, because they don't care about what. anyone else says. And then there are some people who care too much about what everyone else says, and then they are at the whims of of the crowd. So Joe Budden has got a line, right? Joe Biden, Joe Biden, the rapper. I was like,

wow, this guy's about to call Joe Biden. Yeah, okay. I was like, damn, I don't think I've ever heard anyone call Joe Biden. This is a rap line. Also, long before he did podcasts and he speaks about Mama Raised me proper. The streets just molded me, the streets coded me, made me a better pedigree. Then he goes on to say, things are complicated. Like every lives that it'd be. But that's beside the point. Hey, basically when you go out into the world, the world will either affirm you or it will challenge you. Cool, right? So with your fortitude, you go there and then you would be like, no, my friend,

that's not how this works. And very quickly, if you're smart person, you then learn, oh damn, I'm wrong about this. However, yes, if you are correct. about your ways, the world will affirm you and then you will see what's okay. This actually works and that's how people end up rising to a certain point. So okay, it's actually funny you say that. because I think that's that's a perfect segue to my worry. I agree. that the world will affirm you.

or challenge you, right. But I don't think that that is based in absolute truths. So sometimes you will be affirmed or challenged based on the circumstance. or the situation. True. Or what people can benefit from. Exactly, exactly. So so now let's go to my worry. The reason I say, I think the global liberal. whatever experiment has failed is because. there was a time when many politicians around. the world started to believe, and I'm sure there was another time.

when this happened with trading in general. But they said, you know what? We could be connecting the world in interesting and different ways. You know, you could you could make something in China. or you could make it in any country where it's developing, really. And that means the country where they're selling it to, they can focus on different types of labor. They can be more specialized, they can work in offices. They can do this. So they'll actually be selling a different product to the world. Their product might be a service, it might be something digital. And then the people who are using that, they might buy something else.

and they might, but we're all connected and there'll be a change. Yeah. Wonderful. And we're all and it's it's the circle of life, you know what I mean? It's like this beautiful world. where money's flowing from one place to the next one. And now. And you, you're the economics guy. So I'm sure you. you can speak to deeper than I can, but, like, I feel like what happened was, first and foremost, the money dammed up in a way that no one really predicted. So the money didn't move around the world. It didn't stay in Bangladesh and Vietnam and all these places where the workers.

are making it. It very quickly left those places. Yes, and went into bank accounts in certain parts of the world. Right. The people. working, even at these companies in those parts of the world, it doesn't matter how big these corporations are. But one of the things I find particularly interesting is how, like, we've accepted this as normal, and maybe we won't for a while, where companies can hire people to help them make profits. Once they've achieved that profit, they can fire all of those people.

And I'm hoping for the next to help them make more profits. Right. So so this is the this is the second part of it. Why? I think it's why I think it's failing. I think we were never fully prepared. to communicate with everyone, everywhere, all the time, without understanding the nuances and the complexities. that come with everybody's understanding of the world in the, you know, in the same way that we're worried about, like what we say to aliens. when they arrive, not even when they arrive. You've seen we've sent. we've sent like things just signals like, yeah, we send capsules, okay.

And then they'll choose. They go, we've put some Mozart, some Beethoven we've sent. But there's also like, crazy shit we've sent. We've sent like a random, like, rock n roll song. that could sound like a war anthem, I don't know. Or maybe Mozart sounds like war to an alien. I don't know, right? You really don't know you when you say so. That came into my mind. Wasn't wasn't there. Don't like. Oh, no. But we've also sent, like, plants and seeds and we've tried to. we try to send what we think encapsulates the human race is what we've done.

Oh, that is a very, very rich setting. Exact. What does encapsulate the human race? That's exactly my point. And so each country should send something even then. And so now I'm saying. social media as a whole, that. the whole connected idea of it for get like actual social media. Yeah. I just don't think we ever prepared for it. We never prepared. for a message to cross borders and cultures in the way that it does. It may connect us in moments, but I think it's it's ripping us.

apart at the seams in more places than we ever thought. So I think that's why I think the whole thing is falling apart. I think in South Africa, we, we're at right now, I think we're going to see only more xenophobia. We're going to see more people not wanting immigrants to come into the country. And in many people's defense, by the way, not just in South Africa, in. the US, in Europe, etc. if we use the binary, we can be very quick to say. these people are hateful, very easy to do that.

Right. But the underlying issue is true in many places. But I think you've got a global view because you are a global person, right? We can scale this down and realize that it's always been like that. It's just that now we are aware that is happening everywhere else as well. Let me take it back to South Africa. Yeah. A person who was raised in the hood and the person was raised in the rural areas. They are aliens to each other. Okay. So the hood versus the village versus the village, there we go. But then even in America, somebody was raised in the South, and I'm.

a southern belle. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? As opposed. to somebody who was raised in New York, those people are also quite elite. Okay. Yes. Right. And that's now that is a country. I just feel that because you've been everywhere in the world, it is a lot more heightened for you that you think that, no, no, no. So this but this is what I mean. I mean, the, the experiment was it felt like it was working for a moment. So here's the thing. I mean, I can't speak to the second part of your thought process. because there's more sociology, but the first one, which is economics that makes sense.

And even if you look at any economic textbook, it really just it dictates that. things will be that way, because capital, by its very nature, is monopolistic. Right? Right. There are four factors of production. We are told we told it's capital, labor, entrepreneurship and then I suppose, land. But really, when you think about it, there's only one fact of production. It's capital. Because it's capital. You can buy the other three, right? That's why the effect has been that.

money has always pooled back to money. Yes. Because once you've made the money, you realize, okay, I no longer need the labor. Now I can build AI and therefore substitutes they need for this. Right? Okay. I no longer need entrepreneurship. I can go to India and hire CEO. Okay? I no longer need, for example, land, right? These are all the things. Capital will always supersede everything in a capitalistic society. So it's called capitalistic, right? I call it label istic or domestic. I want to live in the country.

No, but but so I agree with you. And what I'm saying though is this was an experiment. We remember we always conducting expert. like you said with your son you're winging it. We also winging it. I think this is something we should always acknowledge as people. And I think not enough politicians do and not enough leaders do. They make it seem like we know. So I've seen people who talk about like socialism. They know people talk about communism. They know people talk about capitalism, they know. But I'm like, guys, you don't know. We're all winging it with as much information as we have. We gathering data points, as you say. Right.

So there was no communism until there was there was no socialism. until there was no capitalism, until there was. Right. What I'm saying is this experiment that we're conducting now, I worry that it's failing, but I worry that it's failing. because the reason I worry about it failing is because of the ramifications. on the other side. So but that's how revolutions come. This is my point. The reset. Everything has a reset. You see, this is my point. I don't like your tone when you say these things were you say very happen.

No, no, no. But he says it in a very. Your tone is positive, but the message you're giving is like you're like, yes, well that's a revolution. because that's what happens. That's a reset. And everyone's going to die. Yes, but your tone, you must still delivering like. Well, that's a you are worried that you're living on the cusp. Yes. Completely. Yeah. It's a mess. We but we not me. Yes, all of us. Do you want to miss the revolution? No, not to be for it. No, I don't want to be. It's what Trevor doesn't want you. You want to be it for revolution. I mean, I think in many parts we you want to be here for the revolution.

Oh, I don't want to be. Everyone, let me say something about revolution. It's disruptive. And. No. And nobody knows what comes out on the other side. Yes. You. You think I have power? A revolution completely disrupts power. You think? Oh, but I'm of the people. Revolutions also squash the people. Yeah, and the outcome of a revolution is not predictable, right? And wasn't Covid a revolution? Oh, it wasn't, but Trump was right in that it's obviously it depends. what sort of person you are. Right. It's better to be living in very calm times instead of time.

Yes, but you learn a lot if you're living on the cusp, because that's the majority of change takes place. I mean, this is true. Yeah, but when you look at us, we've gone we literally went from analog to digital. That alone will blow many people's minds. Yes. Crazy. The things that we've seen, we went from data recorders. to CDs to cassette tapes to VHS. Yes. And I said that, you know, maybe I think we've lived the revolution. I think you guys think I'm assuming, like the violent ones, you know.

No, no no no no no, I just mean you mean the reset. Okay. So you're saying I'm talking about a reset. I'm not a revolution. Yes. You're going to have to. Then give me the difference between those a revolution, you'll know that will be spelled. Not necessarily, but it was built. But you wouldn't be sitting here talking about Covid as a revolution. You'd know for a fact. Then give me an example of a revolution. Cuban Arab Spring said yes. Well, Arab Spring somewhat, but regimes change. Yes. Okay. Violent then? Not necessarily. They can be peaceful.

In 1994, South Africa had a revolution, but a peaceful revolution, more or less more. Okay. No. Okay. This is so this is what I mean. I'll. I'll just throw them out at you. and maybe you'll understand the picture that I'm seeing. Let's say in America. Right? It was interesting to see how. even amongst themselves, the Trump MAGA crowd. is experiencing like a fraying connection between the people.

Yeah. In a in a microcosm, you look at the Trump. party, I don't call it the Republican Party, the Trump Party. You would think within that world everyone would just be like, yeah, we know what we're doing. We're doing it right. Look at the thing that happened with Elon Musk and the H-1b visas. Elon Musk is rolling with Donald Trump. They're like, yeah, we know what we're doing. We're planning this new world order. Elon's like, hey man, I have a new best friend. I paid $250 million for him. So I want to hang out with them all the time.

Trump is like your mom to come to three in the morning. Trump is like, you're a bit of a loser. I wanted your money. Go away. That's because you can see Trump knows cool. and not yeah, like you saw when Trump was sitting with Obama. Oh, say what you want. But Trump was like, Trump was like, this guy's cool. Yeah. You could see he was like, he all those fancy things to make him laugh. He's like, yeah, yeah. And he was making him laugh. Yeah. Trump was like, this guy's cool. I need this guy's approval. Exactly. Because Trump knows. Cool. Say what you want about it. Like say what you want to. say what you want about him. So.

when when I look at the Elon Musk thing. it's amazing to see how quickly. what I'm talking about is affecting everyone because Elon. Musk and his people go, all right, now we know what we're doing. Trump fans and supporters are like, actually, no. Like Steve Bannon goes, no, no, no. Hey, I actually don't like this agenda. Why are we hiring these people from India and from these places to come and work on. these companies? Elon's like because we need them. Then Steve Bannon's like, no, we don't need them. We need them because we haven't created a world. where Americans are the ones that are needed. Then the tech guys say yes.

But like Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk, they say, yeah, but Americans are not trained enough and they're not smart enough. And these guys are like, oh, you're saying Americans are stupid? Wait, is that what you're saying? They're like, no. And a lot of guys like, yes, I am saying that. Then he's like, why don't we train Americans? Then he's like, no, because it's it's not supposed to work like that. And then even within that little confine, you see the thing falling apart. The promise hasn't been delivered, right? Because white Americans were told, stop your factory things.

We got this. Don't worry. So what's going to happen is you're going to just move forward, right? And your company, you're going to wear a suit and tie. and you're going to have a different job. You're going to get great money. Worked for a moment. Then companies, as you say, capital does what capital does. Companies are like. We could actually make more money with less. And why are we paying American workers. when we could be paying people from India or Bangladesh less? And even if they come into the country, we can force them to work a ton of hours, because what are they going to say? No, and they'll be a lot more appreciative of the dollar.

Exactly. Because they have a visa. Exactly. And now even within that tiny world, you see the experiment failing. And now this Steve Bannon comes and says, Elon Musk. is a white South African who is racist and born from apartheid. We cannot allow him into the white House. Now, people watching this are like, wait, wait, Steve Bannon is saying, this guy's racist. No one knows what's really great. No one knows what to do with it. Yeah, no one knows. But that's just one example. Then you look at South Africa. and how South Africans are now going like actually actually no, no, no, we're not trying to help Africa. No, no. We just trying to do our own thing.

Then you look at Europe, Europe's like no no no no no close close. Yeah Germany. They're like, hey man, this whole immigrant thing actually no no no no no we're not. Then you look at like banking. You look at hiring, look at AI itself. We are on a fast track. to people turning around and saying, wait a minute. If I was doing every job, who's doing a job? And if nobody's doing a job, who's buying things? And if nobody's buying things, what are we doing? And this is why it's so interesting, because all of it's.

actually just boils down to economics and living conditions. Everything you've just highlighted is not a problem. If people are comfortable. Yeah, completely. If we're all comfortable I love it. Yeah. Because who wants to work? Yes, I work if you're uncomfortable initially, you got to bring in some Indian guy. Hey, by all means, buddy, do the thing. There all said, yeah, that's true, but you okay? That's problem. Yeah. Now when we starving, they were like, hey, man, these foreigners are taking our jobs. Yeah, that's the problem. That is the problem where is if we're comfortable, we be like,

hey, buddy, hey, I got something here for you. You wanna do this? Because I don't want to do it. And that's essentially the issue. And that's what I'm saying is failed. Yeah, I'm saying the thing that was sold to people was prosperity for all. that has not happened. Whether it's South Africa, whether it's the United States with as parts of Europe. never happen where you think it can't happen, never prosperity for all. It can know what it can cause it. Tell you why. I say this, that even when we are like you, saying the Trump party, nothing,

even when we're all for one thing and we have one ideal, we still are going to disagree within that, right? But not fundamentally I think so, no, they argue people are now disagreeing. And I hear you look at look at South Africa, look at the ANC. Yes. When we were all about one thing, even when we get along, guys, even in a group of friends, you know, that WhatsApp group where there was nine of you. and the next thing in that nine, six of you flip to the side. Do you know what I'm saying? It's that is human nature. Analyze, right? There will always be disagreements.

What I'm saying is. when things are okay, the disagreements are inconsequential. Yes. So they can never be prosperity for all. Because in order for people to prosper, there needs to be productivity. And the productivity needs to come from somewhere. Now, what happens is you do get certain instances. where there are more resources than those that need the resources. What it means is the model seems like it's. working for a lot longer, but it's really not the model. All is deteriorating.

That's just the nature of the model. You could be living in the Garden of Eden, but the more you procreate, the more you're going to run out of fruits in that God, don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this? This is where I disagree. I think a lot of the scarcity that we think is real in the world isn't real. That's the first thing. And I think a lot of it is created by institutions and companies.

that need you to consume. So for instance, a simple example is your phone, right? Everyone has the new iPhone. Until Apple releases the next iPhone, it is literally even the day before launch. You have the latest iPhone. and then one day later you now have an old iPhone, right? So right. So issues, not scarcity. It's about the distribution of resources. That's but that's why that's what the what I'm saying is I agree completely. I'm saying we are and we have been.

And look, they may not be a perfect world for this, but I think there's. also a lot of artificial scarcity and a lot of artificial. I agree with distribution that has no like and it's at an all time. Yeah, I agree, the perfect example is water. Guys. I don't understand. how we live in a world where it's where water is owned by companies. and we are all going to have to buy water from corporations because everywhere. in the world you have read that about that a couple of global waters. and it's a farming, farming family they own like what you like,

how do you hold water? Who did you buy it from? But that's my point. Who owned it before you? But that's my point because the water goes under my house as well. How come I can't stop the water? And do you see what I'm saying? So now she's. I get what you're saying economically, but I'm saying that's. why all of these things, I worry that we are going to hit. too many at the same time. And that thing. is going to be okay. It will be. It will be. I don't know if it will be a revolution, but I think we are we are on track. Unless there's some sort of correction somewhere.

We are only on track for like a mess. ending correction type thing, revolution, whatever you want to call it. I cannot see another way. Well, luckily all of this has been thought of. Even the thing you just mentioned. Now. But water going under your house? Yes. For example, the Romans here who land. ownership, they kind of. They basically had, a definition of what land ownership is. Right. It will be, I guess, the square meters or whatever the measurements will be.

Yeah. And then it will be everything on and above the ground belongs to you. Everything below the ground there belongs to the States. Okay. Let's suppose, what our mining laws are based on. Hands on. Yeah. Right. So if the water is flowing on top of your ground, that's your water. But the underground water is not yours. Yes, but the problem is the state. Is it fair? It's obviously not fair. But I hear you. Yes, but. And what is a state? A state is a collection of people. It's a it's a it's a it's a fiction that we've all agreed to.

So now the problem is. when the states sell it to private people, where do we end up in revolution? So this is, by the way, Caesar is not helping me at all. because he's affirming everything I'm saying. Yeah. Imagine if we were doing it with a dream that was supposed to happen that way. But you guys also did that with me. That it's supposed to. No, no no, no, it's like as the second album, it was written. Yes. Thank you, Joe Biden. But here's what I remember what my original statement was. Yes. I'm worried that the experiment is failing because remember what we're also doing. as humans is we're constantly trying.

to undermine the natural order of things. We do it with our health. Right. So back in the day, your shoulder, you would be gone. Now you may not be gone. Yeah, right. And I think this is something that's important to understand, is that one of the main things that makes humans, humans. is that we've challenged the very fundamental order. and nature of life and the world, and we fight it in a progression. Yeah, but but we fight it.

So we go, actually, maybe you shouldn't die of an infection. Yeah. And then you go, oh, you should do that. Oh. Remember the guy you interviewed? Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We shouldn't die at all. Yeah. Right. So so the reason I say I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sad and I'm worried. that the experiment is failing is because it was an experiment. People thought that if you put goods and services or if you say that things. are going to be manufactured in poor countries, it's going to bring them up, and then that'll free up the developed countries. to do different types of jobs, and it'll bring them up,

and then they will sell their ideas and it'll bring them up. and they'll be this beautiful loop, this beautiful loop, this beautiful loop, and we will all raise. What is that? Rising tides raise all boats. That's what we thought. What we didn't know was some people have boats that have water pumps, and they're taking a lot more water. And the tides are not rising. Everything. So now that's what I was saying, is my worry. when my good friend was kind of the same. You see, this is a good episode. Yeah. And I like the fact that there's no solution. We just do it for like five year.

You worry. Sneakers five. of this guy, that's that's on you. I actually see. a very hopeful future for your story with your son. Of course, that's what I mean. So I go like, oh, you just have a problem or a worry about a potential problem. But I feel like this mini solves for the thing that's leaving the house. That's all I need. So that's that's as a friend.

That's. And then. my friend has said to me, no, no, don't worry, all your worries are correct. and it's going to end. That's what he just did to me. Because you must never be a doctor. By the way, Caesar, you. He needs to be a no no. He would be the person who just walks in and says to you, you're out. Statistically speaking, you're going to die anyway. So, I mean, I don't even know why you want to do the surgery, save your money, spend time with your family. See, that's what he would be saying. No, you should not be the shortest episodes of House ever. Just walking.

So. Okay, let's do Caesar's. So your concern is you worry. That's so, generally speaking, as you correctly point out, the world is continually deteriorating. Yeah. And I feel like, oh, wait, wait, wait. I'm not saying continually let me be on record of saying that. Well, I think I think we're in like cycles and I'm saying, no, we are on cycles. Okay. Obviously in the cycle it's continuing to be okay. Okay. We haven't hit rock bottom okay. Great. Oh are you going to stop the series? I'm going to hit rock bottom. Then we're going to rebuild. Okay cool.

Now I worry that in the short term because life is relatively short, right? To raise a kid in that environment, it's going to be very similar to us. And the tools that personally I had to navigate the world. I see those tools becoming more and more useless every day. Can you give us an example of those tools? I mean, just. general things like, for example, bullying, a very simple example. Yeah, right. They used to be a safe haven for bullying. These days there is bullying.

You're sorry? Sorry. I feel like I'm mishearing you. Safe haven for people being bullied from being bullied. Yes. Oh, okay. I thought you were saying there was a safe haven for bullying. There's no really. Okay. Yeah. So, like a weird thinker, you could. You could be the kind of person who says that back in my day. So. Bullies. Yeah. You were like, bullies could find a place. Dude, you're the kind of person who could say that. Look, okay, do bully character. Okay, but I don't. Okay? Okay. Sorry. So you're saying so you could get really safe haven.

so you could get bullied, and then at 230, the bell would ring. You be like, oh, that's so great, mom, I'm going home. Yeah. And then you'd be in your mom's car and then be like, mom, you never believe it. Hey, these guys are going to beat me up. And then you picked up right in time. And now the guys are beating you up in your mom's car, and your mom's like, why are you your street? And they pummeling you, you know, so that's just one simple example, okay. And again, it speaks to that thing of yours, the interconnectedness. Because yeah, we didn't even prepare for 100%, 100%.

And when you're a kid, you really don't have. the broadened vision to know what's actually what I can do. Just turn off my phone. Yeah, I think as adults we also don't necessarily have that. It took me. I'm trying to think of when this changed. Maybe somewhere pandemic ish, somewhere. It took me a long time to realize, if if I don't know it, it's if I don't even acknowledge it's not even happening. I know it sounds like a weird thing. People like. No, but but people are saying things about me. online, and I'm like, yeah, it's not really happening unless you know them,

because I feel like our youth kind of primed us for this, though. In what is it like our youth in showbiz? Dude, we came out in a time where. I guess the review would have been a the ratings. The show sucks. Okay, okay, that's why I when I see the kids that grew up now in the social media age. Yeah, right. And I see how seriously they take and how they crumble when someone does. I can understand it because for them, they were made by social media.

And if you were made by social media, you feel like you can be destroyed by social. Okay. To channel my very wise younger brother, he would argue. that we and the youngest of our generation is experiencing that. He says they're not. He's like you guys like Bane. He's almost like, are you familiar? You mean you dropped from social media? I was forging social media. Like he goes, no, no, no, no. You and your youngest think that he says, our. generation, we're so robust because we were built by that. He's like, we don't we actually don't care, he says.

We don't really care about the thing and we don't. He even showed me like, esthetically, you know what I'm saying? He showed me like esthetically, go look at like Gen Z and lower, look at the Instagram, the TikTok. It's not esthetic like millennials and above. It's not. They're not trying to show you a perfect picture of avocado toast. No, they just wanna show you a vibe. They might even show you the crumbs. That's their picture. And his argument is that we think of it. as being something that is infinitely harder to tackle.

But he's like it is only the reality that they have. Right? So he goes, I think your situation was worse. He's like, because we entered striving for perfection. because we didn't know how this thing works. No, but not even like he argues. He goes, yeah, you get we get bullied online. But he's like, but you guys got bullied like physically. And there wasn't really stuff. you guys could do about it when it was happening physically. And then he goes, I can make friends online. I can look at a video on TikTok about how to be a boxer. But he argues that their reality is different to ours.

But it comes with its own pros and cons and they're fine with it. Yeah, I think he's correct. In fact, in that analogy, I would think I'm somebody like Tony Hawk. I'm like the geriatric in a skate park. Oh yeah. That's how you on social media? Yeah. Cuz I'm with the kids throwing the money. You have you because you were throwing. you were throwing the man on the playground. Okay. I think your brothers. Right.

But I think there's very few of them that are like that. The rest of them. And if you if you had to look at the stats around, you know, mental wellness and life and all of that, a lot of them are not thinking like that. So for me, your brother is the hippie. One thing I will throw into that. Yeah, we'll wrap we'll wrap one thing reading late. This thing is even calling me. All right. So one thing I will say to that is I think it's the same guys. One bully at my school terrorized. three standards, like three grades, one bully.

Do you understand what reach that is? Yeah. One guys, one bully would come to the tuck shop cafeteria for those in America. and would take anything and everything and do whatever the. So I understand what you're saying, but I go. I feel like we were also that generation. I watched people get terrorized by one bully, and a whole school. could have done something and didn't do anything. And we were all just like, that's them. You know? You're just like, pray to God. They don't come your way. Yeah.

And so what I'm arguing is I don't necessarily think that they are. softer or like, I just think that. because it's so foreign to us, we see it as being more that way. But I don't necessarily think it's and it's the same problems, just a different iterations. Yes. But that's how generations are. Yes. That's what I think. And then I actually think the mental health thing, I think it is more important to look at our communities, like our real communities versus our social ones. I think we take for granted forget the bully,

forget the social media, forget all of that. We take for granted what a physical touch was. Yes, I got bullied, but at least my bully touched me. Okay, do you know what I'm saying? At least my bully like I suck my blood like you. Like done. My God, we will. We'll continue this, okay? We'll catch a flight. Bye bye. Thank you. I love you guys. We love you. All right, go catch a flight. Don't get bullied. Whatever. Or if you do, make sure they touch you. The thing around touching is.

so that I can assess your strength now. Because when when when you are bullying me and you touch me, I can assist. Okay? Maybe I can fight you. And. Yeah, but digitally, I don't know what you're saying. Yeah, that that is one thing I think that was. That's the only reason I'll agree with you. With the bully touching you. Okay, I'll throw you another one that you might agree with. And I mean this genuinely. Every kid who bullied me made you a better person. No. So me as a human being. And I saw them as a human being because they didn't perpetually bully me. And they were not perpetually bullies.

They were kids who played sports, who ate food, who caught the bus, who. And then they were the same way. Like, your job doesn't define you. Hopefully in life they were like, no, I work as a bully, but I'm also still a human being. They laughed. They. I remember walking into school and the bully would be there and be like, Trevor, you. I'd be like, bro, come on. I'd be like, yeah. And then he'd be like, okay, but tomorrow that for me. I don't see anyone doing online. because I know this sounds like a crazy thing to say,

but even though that bully was a bully because we shared the same space, because we breathe the same air, because we looked into each other's real eyes, I knew who that bully was. I knew their name. I knew where they lived. They were a human being. But that's because with with digital, everything is just fleeting and passive. and fake. But yeah, but I'll raise you that. People. that I have like squared up with on digital, there are people that. have become my friends because every day we're going to have each other. Really. And yes, then after a while you like, you know, you're not half bad because you must remember something.

Somebody is wrong, can't be wrong all the time. And somebody who's right can't be right all the time. I like that. So even with people that I've disagreed with, you know, like aggressively. on on eggs, sooner or later because you still get right to the other people. I'm like, you know, I usually speak nonsense, but today I can agree with what you're saying, right? So we agreeing with each other is just like with digital, there's this thing of, I've said it, it's done, my phone is off, I'm gone. Right. But now with your bully, they were coming back to you every day. You could you. There was a chance of you seeing them again and again and again. So back to what you were saying about community.

Think of the first days on Twitter. There was a community. Yeah, it was. And I think right now it's just that you are dealing with. you wouldn't allow anyone to just touch you like that. Even your physical sense when you a child because you like I don't know you. Yeah. I have a bully. And when. you are you, who are you? Right. And I think that what you going back to is that wherever you are, be it at work, within your family. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Just find your sense of community. It's funny, you know, you say.

Yeah, there's there's something you stumbled on. I feel like in one part. that's really special. And that is. We've lost that. Even even fighting. At least you're you are connecting with another person. I know it sounds crazy, but even having a back and forth, at some point you will see each other as people you know, when see the almost quoted, the president, Joe Biden, Joe Biden, let me quote.

President Obama at his first inauguration, where he said, I will listen to you, especially when we disagree. You must listen to people that you disagree with. And that's the problem with, I would say, the Trump Party. is that there's just a notion. that I don't have to listen to you because I disagree with you, but why is in the two minutes of me talking, you agree with 30s of what. I'm saying now, you do yourself an injustice of. just totally disregarding me because I'm not a Trump party. Yeah, but I think both ways, actually.

And I think that's I've always said America's. biggest struggle for me in its politics is that it is binary. So Americans think and have been taught. that it is this or that. But now I realize, and I realize every time I come home to South Africa, I'm like, wow, we have such a complex, perfect example is the I'm an ANC bitch. The woman on the Flysafair flight. This is a black woman who gets drunk on a flight, starts berating the. like of the flight attendants, throws things at other passengers, and now passengers, black and white alike team up against her.

Just train. Yeah, but even then, the commentary of it, the. pro ANC. they against her and then black people at large are against her and white people. And I was like, oh yeah, I don't really see. many of those types of things happening to me. I saw a white guy coming up for her, and he wrote a thread about. what could have gone wrong. And we must understand. I was just like, okay, yeah, but we have similarly. But but what exactly? So what I mean is, like when you are told that there is one of two solutions,

you will then think that there's 1 or 2 solutions, and so you will be forced to pick between one of two solutions. and you'll know what I mean. And you believe that if I pick one, I can't like certain elements. of the other one. Yes, because you've been told. Whereas whereas when you come from a place where they go, no, no, no, no, no, as you said earlier, with the. ANC, even the ANC was multiple coalitions in one thing. Right? And that's what made it work. Because you know what you find, then you find accountability.

and you constantly having to behave in a way that proves that. my theory is the one that we should go with right. now, when when we're all thinking the same, right? When we're all thinking the same. Isn't that a dictatorship? Yeah, well, this is this is not actually, you know, it's funny. You actually made me worry less. Oh, yeah. Okay. No, really, because I think to myself, even in the moments. this is going to sound like a crazy thing, even for me to say to myself.

But, like, the one upside of revolutions is that they bring people together. Or like one of the upsides, maybe depending on which way. the revolution is going. But it is like, you know, the people come together like the, you know, you think of like the the Berlin Wall coming down. You think of like the Soviet Union collapsing. You think of Cuba. You think, yeah, it's like. it brings people together. And maybe that's what's maybe that's what we're living in. Maybe life is a constant.

yo yo of humans being pulled apart and then being pulled back together. And maybe we create things that pull us apart. Walls that our houses, you know, tinted. windows in our cars, things that isolate us. And then something comes along. Everything from an earthquake to a fire. And then you need that person. And then all of a sudden, yeah, all of a sudden. we're now back together and it's, it's interesting to think of, like us always. being forced to come back together, whether we like it or not.

Yeah. Because like, literally whether we like it, whether you like it or not, humans are going to get. we're going to be back here together. Yeah. And we don't know what it'll be. Yeah. I like that. See, once these were left, my worries left as well. No, but you need the grim. The grim. So funny thing is, he's not even grinchy. If he was a Grinch, it would be better. He's an AI. It's his delivery, you know, like you know, like when you watch those movies. where, like, with, like, the robot just says, like, straight up. They just go, like, humankind needs to be eliminated.

Then you're like, excuse me? It appears to me that being human is suboptimal. Yeah, but I'm asking you, what's a better way to do my garden? The best ways to not have a garden. It's gonna die anyway. It's gonna die anyway. The same way you will die if I end you. Then you do not have to worry about the garden. Yo yo yo Sizwe Sizwe. I'm looking for a solution. Yes. And I presented the ultimate solution to you. Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Solution is death. Yes. This is why you're a mom. And he isn't. As a parent, you just have to be the eternal optimist.

And and that's true. And and but then it's so difficult to be the eternal optimist. But then finding hard. places to be hard inside of that. Because you have to be hard at times because discipline has to happen. Damn. You know, so you know what it is. It's a yo yo. Yeah, we separate quick, but I'm gonna come together. because somebody has to drive you to school, right, I love that. Thank you. And easy. Thanks for joining me. Thank you. And thank you, Cesar, in your absence.

What now with Trevor Noah is produced. by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, so NAS Yamin and Jody AV. Again, our senior producer is just Hackel. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music mixing and mastering by Hamas. Brown, thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?

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