Vic Mensa: Who is the Real Threat?

[music]. The worst thing about being robbed by. somebody on a bicycle is [music]. >> is that it's a very it's a very. whimsical way to be robbed. >> Do you know what I mean? Because like if. you get robbed. >> at gunpoint, >> it makes you feel like you were part of. something meaningful, >> something extreme. >> Yeah. Yeah. So if someone pulls out a. gun and they're like, "Give me, give me. your phone, give me your wallet." No. But even after it happens, if let's say. if people were watching you, there's a. certain amount of bravado that you get.

to maintain. >> for surviving a gunshot. >> Wow man, I can't believe you got robbed. I saw what happened and you were there. and you had to put your hands up and the. person or even a knife, you know? You. know what I mean? Yeah. >> When you get robbed by somebody on a. bicycle, it is one of because just think of a. bicycle and then the person grabs your. phone. You said you on a FaceTime. >> Yes. >> So now they're on a FaceTime with this. person. >> I never thought about that. So one. minute you as Vic are like, "Man, let me. tell you what I'm doing out here. Let me. let me tell you what I'm doing out. here.".

[music]. This is [music] What Now with Trevor. Noah? [music]. >> Yo, you know what happened yesterday? So, I unintentionally bought a new. iPhone. >> Wait, before you guys carry on, can I. just say you guys look like you got the. same style memo and then I was excluded.

from this. >> When do you think I don't research? >> So, you dress like this for Vic. [laughter]. It's. >> the South African version. >> I find [laughter] I was like, if I find. an orange, the guests will never know. the difference. >> You know, [laughter] we should have got. I don't I don't know if you've if this. is because of you. I don't want to say. it's because of you and I haven't. forgotten the iPhone thing. And we're. going to come back to it. >> I have experienced an extreme citrus. craving. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm. I'm not I Yo, okay. He's my witness cuz.

he sees my fridge. My fridge always has. watermelon in it. Always. Always. Always. >> Now I have copious amounts of citrus. >> And I wonder I genuinely wonder if it's. partly because of you. >> You'll never get sick. >> Yeah. But I just wonder if like you've. sort of, you know, >> subconsciously influenced. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you've created. like a. >> I need to get a royalty from the the. >> You probably could get you could get. sponsored by like Big Orange or. something after it can go to avocados. [laughter]. >> That's.

>> That's the real money. >> Can you imagine Vic pulling an avocado. [laughter] off the tree? >> First of all, the tree would be. >> pulling an avocado. The. >> real bread. The avocado [laughter]. knife. >> No, no, no, no. He still has to USE HIS. HANDS. >> OH, BE MASHED all over the [laughter]. place. Smeared on MY FACE. >> [clears throat]. >> AND THEN YOU KNOW ONCE AN AVOCADO GETS. EXPOSED IT turns [laughter] brown and. then you've been there for long. >> Nasty. >> Now you can only you can only you can. only talk about short topics. [laughter]. >> Sure. >> It's like you know when.

>> you can't waste the avocado $10 a pop. >> Yeah. The guy's talking deep about Iran. Thing is turning brown in his hand. >> Expensive avocados are American. >> man. Oh you don't you don't struggle. with that. >> No we don't. It's actually interesting. There are some things that cost a. fortune in some countries and in other. countries. A friend of mine who grew up. in Zimbabwe, like born and raised their. whole family, she was telling me the. other day, >> her grandmother still refers to avocados. as poverty food. >> So when they're in London as a family.

>> and they go to a fancy restaurant. >> and then they come with like an avocado. with blah blah. >> and the mom literally is just like, "Why?" The grandmother, she's like, "Why. are we eating poverty food?" And then. they try and explain to her, they're. like, "No, avocados in London cost a. fortune. In New York, they cost a. fortune." So, I unintentionally bought. an iPhone because I I got in there and. then usually like when you go to a. store, there'll be a price underneath. the item that you want to buy. So, what. they do at the eye store here is the.

price is on the phone. So, remember you. used to go on the iPhone and there'll be. selfies of people that have taken. pictures of themselves. >> Okay. Wait, so you when you touch it? >> This was me. >> This was you. >> as a child? Yeah. I used to just hang. out in the Apple store and just like. take selfies. >> No, you were you one of those people. >> strapping in the in the. >> So now the phone. I got so many photos of myself me and. all my friends hanging out in the Apple. store making faces like throwing. [laughter] up gang signs. >> Did you record stuff as well? >> Yes. >> I used to No, no, no. I used to see kids.

No joke. I used to see kids in the Apple. store on the iMac making an album. >> Yeah. Yeah. I recorded raps on there. All type of [ __ ]. No one threw you out, right? >> They did throw us out. Okay. And then we. came back. >> I saw something. >> Do you know where those albums are? Do. you know where the music is? >> Facebook. Like all buried secrets. >> I feel like they shouldn't throw you. out. I feel like that should be part of. like the Apple stores. How can I explain it? [snorts] If you. create like a subculture.

>> within an Apple store that people come. in to try and create things so that they. can blow up, I argue that's one of the. greatest marketing campaigns. That's. that's. >> it's tight. >> You know what I mean? This there's like. a cool vibe to you could that guy in the. corner could be the next big thing. That. girl over there singing into the little. iPhone microphone, she could be the next. big thing. And then Apple just has this. as like a Yeah. You never know. >> Yeah. But once it becomes a thing, people spend too much time there. >> Oh yeah. racism, too. You know, [laughter]. >> a bunch of little black kids. Like, you.

can't take chances with the talent they. may have. [laughter]. >> The present threat. You know what I'm. saying? Outweighs the potential for. [laughter] talent. >> Wait, I like that line though. The. present threat. What did you say? >> Human potential. >> I said outweighs the potential for. talent in the mind of society. For sure. >> Oh, man. That's actually deep as [ __ ]. >> Yeah, that's that's actually deep on so. many levels. Because how much risk should a society. be willing to take take for the.

potential of. the great talents? Do do you know what I. mean? >> Like if you were It's easy for us to say. it from like an institutional point of. view. >> But like let's say you saw something in. your kid that was scary but could go on. to become the greatest thing ever. >> Do you hinder that? >> I see it in my kid now. He just smacked. somebody in the face yesterday. >> You're like UFC. I'm like, "Yeah, this. guy's a fighter. It could be a. champion.".

>> But. >> but he just smacked his mom in the face, too. So, >> how do you how do you deal with that? Cuz on our side of the world, that. that's not a story that could be told in. that way. >> In what way? >> The way you just told the story seems. like that is the conclusion of it, right? My kid, I'm assuming, what. happened afterwards? >> So, he is a tourist, which I'm learning. is really the bull. like they're very. stubborn. >> Okay, >> my father's a Taurus, but he's. >> patient and maybe a different kind of.

Taurus. My son is like me, >> but a tourist and so he's like. coming to blows with things. You know. what I'm saying? And now he's in. daycare. So those things are people and. he sees other kids that have toys. He. doesn't have any siblings. Doesn't. really no sharing. >> How old is he? >> He's about to be two. >> Okay. Yeah, >> he's about to be two next. like a 2, three-y old problem. >> Yeah, for sure. And he sees kids with. toys. He wants their toy. He tries to. take it. The kid doesn't want him to. take it. He hits.

My girlfriend comes to try to correct. him. Mansa, his name's Mansa Musa. Say, "Mans, you you need to apologize to this. kid." Here's her too. >> Does he have the full name? Mansam Musa. >> Mansam Musa Mansa. >> Just Mansa only. >> Mansam Musa Mensa. >> Triple M. That's and uh my my Ghanaian. cousins, they call him 3 M. [laughter]. >> Three M. >> And they've recently. >> that used to be a scam. >> They've recently started to call. >> my [ __ ] [laughter] who calls him this.

dayare. smackdown [laughter]. [ __ ] Suck it [ __ ]. >> No, my Ghanaian cousins. I don't know. what happened. And it's like, so once he. hit two and now I post pictures of him. and they respond in my story like my. little [ __ ] is getting so big. [laughter]. and me and my girl are like [cough] what. it it it has a different vibe in Africa. though. >> Yeah. >> It's just like a you know. >> it's funny cuz they just don't know how.

to use it right now. >> No, that's what I was about to say in in. South Africa. [laughter]. >> No, but in South Africa. >> South Africans too. I mean South. Africans too. I mean, don't it don't. sound right when y'all say it. >> No, [laughter] it's true. We we say. >> we will even say we will say ab my. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> Which refers often to like. African-Americans in hip-hop. >> What does [ __ ] my [ __ ] mean? >> It means like the plural of like it's. like. >> all of my [ __ ]. >> No, no, no, no. >> Um. >> those the my [ __ ]. >> Yes. >> The my [ __ ].

>> [ __ ] means the. >> [ __ ] is like Yeah. It's the collective. >> The collective of my [ __ ]. >> Yeah. So, so, so it's like saying guys. from over there. >> Yeah, but it can also be the the guys in. South Africa as well. No, no, no, no, no. It's not. It's not because it can be. guys in South Africa as well. >> 100%. >> How does my [ __ ] coincide with Ubuntu? Does Ubuntu not? >> Pause for one second. [laughter]. >> Am I ARE YOU LISTENING TO WHAT I'M. SAYING? >> Pause for one second. This kind of talk. that you guys are having, it skips the.

general white market and goes to that. white other white market. Do you know. what I mean? white white buckets. >> That's aba my [ __ ] [laughter]. >> So it's not racist. >> It's not racist at all. [laughter]. >> That is your [ __ ]. >> No, no, no, no, no. So let me explain. No, no. Let me explain. Let me explain. So let me explain. [laughter]. >> So what so what happens sometimes that I. think that I think is beautiful is as a. it's funny sort of like the avocado. thing we're talking about. So as words.

move around from place to place, as. ideas move around from place to place, they take on a different meaning that. can be similar but not the same. Right? >> So the n-word is a great example of that. because it was never used in Africa. It. doesn't have the same weight even though. people understand it through a. historical context and through a current. context. Right? But because there's also. a cultural difference in South Africa, many of us grew up influenced by hip-hop. culture, >> right? And one of the things before you. could even like speak English, I.

remember my cousin would be like rapper. rapping along to Tupac and then one of. the things you'd say he'd be like, "Yo, yo, my my man. Yo yo my man. Yo yo. my nigga." Then you you just say that. That's what you just knew you have to. say to be in hip- hop. >> Those two words were used. interchangeably. >> Yes. >> My man and my [ __ ] Then what happened. was over time. >> if you were if you were somebody who was. in hip-hop. >> you were then referred to by people who. weren't in hip-hop as Abu my [ __ ] So.

they would say it for. >> No, first it was I'm a [ __ ]. >> Yeah, that's true. I'm a [ __ ] That's. true. Which is plural. >> The rappers. >> Yeah, the raers. guys wearing do-aggs, oversized foo shirts, >> and then and there's there's no And. there's no it's not. >> there's a thin line between. >> also but it's also it's also how you say. it. If you say. >> I'm a [ __ ]. >> Uh-uh. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Now it's that's the one. >> So it's got it's got a double. >> Yeah. That's the one that's. like a man.

>> It makes me think about um how I learned. that race is a false concept and that. it's fictitious. I mean, growing up in. America, obviously I grew up as a black. man, black boy before that. At some. point was considered biracial, but that. kind of fades. And um when I went to. South Africa though. >> and I'm meeting color people. >> with the OU, you know what I mean? And. this is a completely different societal. distinction. And I realized that.

>> people are considering me to be colored. >> and that I'm not black. And I'm like, "No, I'm black." They're like, "Uh, you're absolutely not black." You know, uh, and it's such a different, uh, distinction of what is black versus what. is not black in South Africa. Then when. I go to Ghana, they call me Abroni. >> A broni means white man. It means. foreigner, but it also has a slightly. uh, like praised connotation in a. colonial sense. >> You know what I'm saying? And so it's.

like a foreigner, but it's a a bit. uplifted. >> It's an exalted foreigner. an exalted. foreigner and uh and [clears throat] and. they'll call me a white man. So, I'm I'm. in this house where I'm staying. >> and the the man who works in the home. sees that I'm about to go outside. Uh. it's like 9:00 p.m. I'm trying to go. find some food. Ghana's very safe. You. know what I'm saying? So, I'm going to. go find some food. I'm like, you know, putting on my [ __ ] And he's like, "Where are you going?" I said, "I'm. about to go get some food." He said,

"Ghanas, I do not like when white people go out. at night." [laughter] And I'm like, "Me? White people go out at night?". I'm like, "If you don't get the [ __ ] out. of my way, like I'm from Chicago. I'm. from a very dangerous place. Like, I'm. going outside." But I thought that was. so funny to me that I was so not a black. person. >> Yeah. in a Ghanaian context like that I. was enough of a white person that I. should be fearful for going outside. alone at night and yeah I went of course.

but I didn't find [ __ ] they don't have. nothing going on at 9:00 p.m. [snorts]. in Ghana. It's not even like that. >> But can I ask you a You know, it's funny. you say that thing. Do you ever wonder. whether or not the bonafides you have. where you're from hold up in another. place? Cuz you see what you just said. You're like, I'm from Chicago. I don't, you know. >> Oh, yeah. >> I sometimes think about that. I go, >> there's machetes. >> Yeah. But [laughter]. no, for real. >> Chicago again. >> I went to I went to Jamaica, man. One. time I got to Jamaica, you know what I'm. saying? And my flight was uh kind of.

disrupted. I had the wrong passport. for. my manager. He gave me his passport. I'm. sitting in the airport for like 16. hours. I'm frustrated. I tried to sneak. in the [ __ ] all type of [ __ ] When I. eventually made it there, I got a chip. on my shoulder cuz I'm like, this was a. 3-day long trip. And I spent 16 hours I. spent the first [ __ ] day in a in a. [ __ ] Montego Bay airport. And so I. get there, you know, when you're in. Jamaica, many places that. >> uh local guys will just try to accompany. you. Yep.

>> To get tips. You know what I'm saying? And so the local guy, he jumps in the. car. He's like, "Oh, I'm going to tell. you where you're going. You're going. this way." You know, and I'm like, "Okay." Uh, and we get there and. eventually. >> he wants his tip. Yep. >> You know, and and once again, my Chicago. thing is is clicks on and as I feel like. he's kind of trying to strongarm me into. this tip. >> Uhhuh. >> I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is you talking. about? I'm from Chicago. You not going. to, you know what I'm saying? Strongarm. me out of shit." And and later that day.

though, I went to the hotel pool and I'm. I'm like, man, [clears throat] you know. what? Let me inspect the validity of. this I'm from Chicago claim in Jamaica. And I looked him. >> uh No, I didn't tip him that time, but I. looked up the murder rate OF [laughter]. >> I looked up the murder rate of of uh. [laughter] Jamaica. >> I was like, I'm sipping everybody. I. mean, the tip would have been like 25.

cents. I was [laughter] like, "These. [ __ ] will kill me. THEY SHOULD BE. telling me I'm from Jamaica. [laughter]. You better give me what I'm asking for. cuz Jamaican. >> 10 times faster than you'll kill us.". >> So, you Google Jamaican rate and. [laughter]. exchange rate. You're like, "That's not. worth it.". >> I did the computation and I realized I'm. 10 times more likely to get killed by. them than they are by me. And the tip is. like [laughter] 10 cents in total. Oh man. Oh [ __ ].

>> I won't lie. I know it's an ignorant. point of view to have, >> but I I never understand it when I'm in. Jamaica. >> So Jama Jamaicans will warn me. >> Mhm. >> So when I was in Jamaica, um it's funny, our flight was disrupted. So we were. supposed to fly uh out of Montego and. then they were like, "No, you got to go. to Kingston so you can get out cuz. flights had changed." And then when. we're in Kingston, someone was like, they're like, "You don't want to you. don't want to go anywhere.". >> Yeah. Cuz I was like, "I've never been. to Kingston." I was like, "I'm going to.

go walk around and see that." And he's. like, "No.". >> He's like, "You can't you can't do that. You can't do that.". >> Yeah. Like, "You can't do that.". >> When people do that, >> I was like, "What do you mean I can't?". Then he's like, "It's not safe for you. to walk around." And I was like, "Yo, I'm go." I was like, "I'm from Jo." I. did the same thing. I was like, "I'm. from Johannesburg." And then I That's. when I had the realization. I went, "Uh-huh. That's the mistake [laughter]. you're making. You're from Johannesburg, so you assume your street smarts hold up. in this place. You assume that your. tactics hold up in this place, >> but now you're coming here with like.

avocado mentality and then the people. here are just going to be like, nah. >> But that's the thing with being black. It's. >> it almost like it goes with anything. You can either blend in or stick out. So. when you're in Europe and you're black, you're like, "Ah, I stick out." But when. you're in anywhere where there's black. people in Africa, in America, you're. like, "Yeah." Cuz I make the mistake of. speaking to African-Americans, like they. know what I'm saying. [laughter]. >> Like, I understand you. >> Like, exactly. Like, they know what I'm. saying. I'm like, >> Eugene will literally do that, by the.

way. >> Yeah. >> Eugene will Eugene will switch to. African languages all the time with. African Americans. >> Doesn't. There was one day with And then you said. to a guy, you're like, "Hey, ex.". [laughter]. And then I said, "Eugene, he doesn't. understand what you're saying.". >> I get that cuz when I just saw a glimpse. of you on the screen in the back room, >> I didn't know you were South African. until you spoke. >> I can tell in time. >> I can always tell. I can always identify. the Africans. Is it just I can. But like. sometimes in that first moment.

[clears throat]. >> that glimpse might not give me the whole. picture. You know what I'm saying? >> Where where would you where would you. think your Eugene's from? Does he look. like he's from a part of Philly? >> What? >> Philadelphia. Until. [laughter]. he did THAT UNTIL HE DID THAT. >> I think what's wrong with you? >> Stood up. I saw his butt. [laughter]. I be like, "This guy's from South. Africa. Thickest man ON THE PLANET. [laughter]. This guy just. >> a gay man would be in heaven [laughter].

coming to South Africa. He couldn't get. rid of his [ __ ] self. Don't [laughter] let them [ __ ] show up. in South Africa. Oh man. man, never go. home. Uh, [laughter] no, but you right. though about uh going to places and not. realizing that um your like worldview. from home Yeah. >> doesn't apply. Like I was in Montreal. one time and uh walking down the street. talking to my buddy on the phone.

facetime, got a French girl with me. I'm. stunting. I'm like, "Yeah, man. You. know, [ __ ] out here. I'm real. international. You know, I'm doing my. thing. You know what I'm saying?" and a. man rode by me on a on a bicycle on a. road bike. He's just pedaling and I'm. stunting and the man just [snorts]. grabbed the phone and kept riding fast. as hell. I'm so so stunned. You know. what I'm saying? Because this is a very. beautiful place. I'm thinking I can. physically overpower anybody that tries.

to rob me in this place. Um but I wasn't. ready for the crackhead on the bike. And. so I chase him, can't catch him, you. know what I mean? I I go on this wild. goose chase to try to find my phone. I'm. doing find my iPhone. I trace my [ __ ] to. a park. full of crackheads on bikes. So many. crackheads on bikes. I can't distinguish. >> your crackhead. >> I don't know who's the one that's my. crackhead. Literally. Exactly. I don't. know which crackhead is my crackhead. [laughter].

>> See, this is when it gets racist. But uh so so one of them came out and. >> we're fighting too. [laughter]. >> So one one of them came out, you know, and I'm like, "Man, this might be the. one, you know." [laughter] So now I'm. racist, you know? I'm like, "This might. be the one." And so I'm like, "Man, you. know what I'm saying? Did you happen to. you know what I'm saying? Do you got an. iPhone, you know?" And he pulled out. like a way older iPhone. He's like, "I. didn't steal no iPhone." [laughter] I. got this is a iPhone. Oh, he said, "What. kind of iPhone?" It's iPhone 13. He. said, "This is iPhone 6. [ __ ].

[laughter] I'm I'm crazy. apologized. You know, I'm like, >> "Where's your girl on all of this?". [laughter]. >> She actually was riding with me. She was. trying to find the phone. >> Oh, wow. >> She was riding with me the whole time. And this ain't my girl. You know, I I. have a girl, but this was a girl. >> Yeah. iPhone 13 girl. >> iPhone 6. >> iPhone. [laughter]. >> And um you know, I wouldn't apologize to. the [ __ ] Whatever. I'm trying to find. my phone in this bike in this crackhead. on bike park. Can I just say just to. interject there, I'm always intrigued by.

people who present as crazy, say they. are crazy, but then request something. that is quite logical. >> An apology. >> AN APOLOGY. >> I'M CRAZY. NOW APOLOGIZE. [laughter] I'm. like, if you were crazy, you wouldn't. care about apologies. >> Also true. For real. >> He was crazy though. He was crazy. He. was crazy. >> I don't know. >> Wait, so now here you are in a park full. of crackheads. Mhm. >> And uh I didn't find a phone. I found. some crack. You know, I I I [laughter]. try to get the phone [ __ ] like I. don't have your phone, but I have crack,

you know, and they try to give me some. crack and the police come, whatever. And. uh all the crackheads disperse in. different directions. I didn't get my. phone, but I did learn a valuable. lesson, which was. >> don't be trying to stunt in someone. else's environment cuz you just don't. know what. >> challenges you may face. You know what. I'm saying? It might not seem as. dangerous as the streets of the south. side of Chicago, but I didn't know that. they rob [ __ ] in different ways in.

Montreal. >> The worst thing about the worst thing. about being robbed by somebody on a. bicycle is. >> is that it's a very it's a very. whimsical way to be robbed. >> Do you know what I mean? Because like if. you get robbed. >> at gunpoint, >> it makes you feel like you were part of. something meaningful, >> something extreme. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if someone pulls. out a gun and they're like, "Give me, give me your phone, give me your. wallet." No, but even after it happens, if let's say if people are watching you, >> there's a certain amount of bravado that. you get to maintain. >> for surviving a gunshot. >> Wow, man. I can't believe you got.

robbed. I saw what happened and you were. there and you had to put your hands up. and the person or even a knife, you. know, you know what I mean? >> When you get robbed by somebody on a. bicycle, >> it is one of because just think of a. bicycle. >> and then the person grabs your phone. You said you were on a FaceTime. >> Yes. So now they're on a FaceTime with. this person. [laughter]. >> I never thought about that. >> So one minute you as Vic are like, "Man, let me tell you what I'm doing out here. Let me tell you what I'm doing out. here." Now they're riding away, but. you're in the background chasing them. Nobody looks cool.

>> chasing something that is way faster. than them. So when you chase another. human being, >> it also looks unrealistic. >> Yeah. When you when you chase another. another human being, you both are. running. When someone's riding a bicycle. and you're chasing the bicycle, you just. look like a child left behind by. something. >> like all your swag. >> It was like a clown show for sure. It. was clown. All my swag with the girl was. kind of. >> It's gone. But I love that she stuck. with you, man. >> She did. >> No, that that's actually really. impressive. It almost feel like she was. in on it now. >> I kind of do too because she then sent. me a phone like a handful of years later.

saying that she had found it. >> and I don't know. I didn't buy it. though. I felt like. >> she had found it. I feel like she just. wanted to come. >> Vic, you got played. Yeah. No, you got. played. >> I got played. >> This is This [laughter] feels like a. This feels like a scam. >> She's the one that really found the. phone. >> How do you find a phone randomly in. another country? >> SHE'S FROM THERE. >> She doesn't have his find my iPhone. >> She was coordinating with up in Philly. >> Oh, man. You told this guy the wrong. thing. >> You told So, let me ask you a question.

[laughter] Does Does Ghana feel like a. version of home now? Cuz you go you go. there quite a lot. Yeah, it kind of. does, man. You know, I mean, I started. going to Ghana when I was 11 and so I've. like. >> who who on your parents who. >> My father has gone in. >> So, father's gone in. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I've been going back to Ghana. for more years of my life than not. >> And at this point, I've like developed a. lot of my own long-standing. relationships beyond my family. I love. that. >> You know what I mean? And so, it. definitely it is home. It's It's the. place I've been most on the planet.

outside of Chicago and probably LA or. something like that. >> Wow. That much. >> for sure. >> Definitely outside of America. It's the. place I've been the most. What What is. the thing you find about Ghana. that brings you a piece of home that you. can't achieve otherwise? I I asked this. question selfishly because I've I've. started realizing I was talking to. Eugene about this the other day. were. walking around in in Johannesburg in. South Africa and I was saying to Eugene. >> because you know we thugged like that.

[laughter]. >> You told this guy. >> I know what it is. It is thug out in. Johannesburg. >> So we we were walking and. >> walking hill, bro. >> And I was I was saying to. >> not scared of anyone. >> I'm scared. I'm scared. We're scared. [laughter] We're definitely scared. No, what I what I was saying was. >> you take for granted I've always taken. for granted. >> how much a place can keep pieces of you. and create pieces of you. Do do you know. what I mean? >> So the reason I ask you about like that. home side of things is because there's.

another Vic in Ghana and I want Yeah. I. want to know like what came out of you. because of Ghana that maybe you wouldn't. have experienced otherwise just being in. the US or being in Chicago. It's much. more peaceful and it's much slower. paced. Like America, we are confined by time. Like we're. obsessed with it. We schedule our days. in 30 minute increments. Like I've got. this meeting, then I have this Zoom. call, and then I have this lunch, then I.

have a breakfast. You know what I mean? I have so many. scheduled events. Try that in Ghana. You. know what I'm saying? like it's not. going to happen cuz people don't operate. like that. People are not beholden to. time in the same way. Yeah. >> And they be 6 hours late for something. and that's just like regular, you know? >> It's not even late. >> That's kind of on time. It's just. something to expect. And as I'm spending. time in Ghana, there's always a process. of like low-key decolonizing my mind as.

it pertains to time to allow things to. happen at their own pace more. >> and to stop being so rigidly connected. to to my ideas of of time and schedule. and it becomes more of a. it becomes more of a peaceful. experience. >> Do you think it made you more chilled as. a person? I think when I'm there, but then I get. too chill and then I try to come like. eight hours late to some [ __ ] and I miss. the whole thing, you know? I'm still.

trying to find the balance, you know, like how do I fit in this. >> while still like accomplishing [ __ ] Um, it's always a little bit of a of a tug. of war. But in general though, I do. admire the way that people in West. Africa, people in the Caribbean are not. um so yeah, controlled by time, like not. so in fear of time. I feel like. Americans live in a constant fear of. missing the moment, you know, but being.

in the moment is is the way to not miss. the moment. >> Yeah. Even even the phrase wasting time. I find is one that is often used in. America and in the west in a way that. isn't used. in at least in my experience in Africa. or in the Caribbean. You you can't waste. time because time is always happening. You don't have it. You never have it. >> So you're either doing with it what you. please or you're not doing with it what. you but you cannot waste time, >> you know. Can I interject? It's actually.

>> Is it possible for me to interject? Yeah, but I was actually going to say. this about you. I was going to say you'd. be proud to know, you know, cuz you. inspire me to read books about things. >> I thought to waste time. >> No, no, no. You do. There's a there's. [laughter] a there's a book that I read. actually that was saying like this thing. is actually quite real, >> but it actually goes to um the. environments that people came from. So. people in Africa, especially in like. West Africa, Central Africa, etc. >> The Caribbean, >> never suffered food scarcity due to.

weather or to time. rel. time was the difference between living. and dying. If you missed the time of the. crops, if you missed the time of. planting, if you missed the time of a. carriage that was going to pick you up. in the snow, it's death. So time is more. important. People in the Caribbean could. just go get that avocado. >> Yeah, exactly. >> At any time in their [laughter] faces.

No, but but I thought you would. appreciate that, Dave. Sorry. >> No, I I do appreciate that. That is um. >> That's crazy. >> That is. great. The the um No, no. The thing No, the thing that this reminds me of is. yesterday. >> Sorry, I'm telling Vic. Yesterday, Trevor texted me and he was like, um, let's chat about what we're going to do. with, you know, this podcast and that.

whole thing of today. You know, that. kind of thing cuz we're yesterday. Then. he said in his text, this is related to. time. In his text, he said, "I'll call. you at 2:30.". >> I feel like this guy is just using this. opportunity to expose me, but let's. carry on. >> No, no, no. [laughter]. He No, this is all part of it. >> I'm sure. Yes. Carry on, baby. >> Yes. No. No. with me being condemned. [laughter]. Please continue. >> Just where we are, the main character. over here said, "I'll text you at 2:30.". Then he didn't text at 2:30. Oh, he.

said, "I'll phone you at 2:30." He. didn't phone at 2:30. Then he phoned at. 7:30. To your point of Africans. No, really. He phoned at 7:30, which I'm. also African, so I didn't when he said, "I'll text at 2:30." I didn't have that. like, "Oh, I'll phone at 2:30." I didn't. have that, you know, at all because I'm. African. But when we did get to 7:30. when he called, if you hadn't called at. all, I would have been fine with it. I. would have been like, "Well, he didn't. call. We'll meet the next day." Do you. know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> I'll call you at 5.

>> to talk about tomorrow. I didn't call. you. I'll just assume he's doing. something. Then we meet the next day. You know, you get where I am as a. person. Cool. But then at 7:30, cuz I've. known this guy for many years. So at. 7:30 he called me. He did call, but he. called. You know when someone sort of. like calls you when because they when. they know that you won't like really be. able to pick up the phone. [laughter]. >> NO, THIS IS [ __ ]. >> NO. WHAT? >> NO. NO. They hang up AFTER.

I won't say [laughter] anything. >> That's what happened. That's what. happened. CAN I TELL YOU HOW? Because. 7:30, you know that thing where you know. we know it's like because I call. directly afterwards. You know when it. rings 1 2 3 and then it goes off then. you ring back directly afterwards. They. should pick up. >> SHOCKED THAT YOU CALLED. >> NO, HE DIDN'T PICK UP. HE DIDN'T PICK. UP. >> OF COURSE HE was shocked. >> No, because he was trying. He was going, "Okay, I can't call him at I can't call. him at 2:00 a.m. because then obviously.

he's sleeping. Do you know that kind of. thing? But I can't call him at 4:00. because then he won't be like engaged. [clears throat] in something he'll pick. up. So then this guy's going like when. is a time that [laughter] like he's bing. when is a time when I know that it will. be a it will be he will be I CALLED YOU. DIDN'T PICK UP no. >> most likely you in the bathroom or I. come back missed then if cuz think about. so I called you direct TWO SECONDS AND. THEN I CALLED again.

>> and then. >> wait so he didn't pick up the first time. >> so this is what happens cuz I was in a. Indian restaurant I knew this would be. ME BEING SNITCHED ON carry on this is. what happens. Ding ding. Then I was doing a thing. Then I was like, I'm just fine now. Ding, ding. Off. Not even many rings. Then I go cuz it comes back. Then I go. call back. You know what I mean? No. call. Cuz then I know this is he was. just trying to do that. Yes. Tick a box. Then what happened is I stopped. I left. it. >> because maybe you know what I mean. How.

long? >> For like 2 minutes. You know what I. mean? Then Yeah. >> Cuz you're giving him the space to call. back. >> Yes. THEN I CALLED AGAIN. SO NOW I LOOK. LIKE AN IDIOT. THEN I THEN I called. again and THEN HE DIDN'T PICK UP. THEN. YOU KNOW LIKE you know on cuz it's a. WhatsApp call. The WhatsApp also makes. you feel more thirsty than you are tells. you if a [ __ ] been on the phone. [laughter] This [ __ ] Trevor Noah was. avail 2 minutes ago. >> And then WhatsApp also pick up WhatsApp. also does that thing where it says would.

you like to record A VOICE MESSAGE? I. DON'T WANT TO RECORD A VOICE MESSAGE. I'M NOT THE ONE. HE'S CALLING ME. AND. THEN. >> you didn't start. >> Yes. I just thought it and [laughter]. even the promise the promise of I'll. call you at 2:30. Why? >> Yeah. >> This is a this is a good place to. explain. >> why I got a new iPhone. >> No, this is People have very different. experiences in life. >> Mhm. >> And I think one of my gifts has always. been able to understand that everyone is. consuming the same reality from their. perspective. [laughter]. >> Don't make it deep. Don't make it deep.

>> Let me explain why. >> Say I have ADHD or whatever. He tells. everybody to have. >> No, let me explain. So. >> what if it says AIDS? >> I love [laughter] I love I love your. experience. I'll tell you what happened. This is actually this is actually great. It's it's a very poignant thing to chat. about. You know, I feel like Vic will. even have great opinions on this. So you. are correct. I said to you, I'll call. you at 2:30. >> Why did you say 2:30? >> Because that is when my previous. engagement was going to end. So I knew. So I knew my thing ends at 2. >> Oh, you wanted to catch momentum. >> So I was like, my thing ends at 2. I'll.

I can make the call by 2:30. >> Okay. And then. >> also remember this is unprompted. I'm. not no I'm not asking for this. He saw. it JUST PUT IN A WILD goose chase. Yes. I'm not asking for this. >> Yeah. But wait, wait, wait. I will. Do. we need to type your side? No, I think. it's okay. >> All right. The um So, >> this guy used to record albums at the. ice. >> No, you never know. But I mean, he's. cool with anything. >> You know, there's tricks to these things. sometimes. It's like a little, you know. So, okay. So, so, so this is what I'm. saying. The 230, you are completely. correct, my friend. And let me first say.

before saying anything else, I. apologize. >> Ah, don't apologize. I don't mean it. >> I don't accept because you're trying to. No, wait. First of all, let me say I. apologize [laughter] for sending the. pick up. Don't. >> No. Now, now let me let me explain what. happened. Let me explain what happened. So, >> I don't accept on your behalf. >> No. So, how No. So, how I get around I. get around I get around riding a. bicycle. That's how I prefer. Wait, this. is how I get [laughter]. >> It's him. You should have looked harder.

[laughter]. So, so I get around riding a bicycle, right? Okay. Ride bicycles. Ride. bicycles. So, the thing that I had. planned didn't end at the time that I. thought I' planned. What? Then I get on. a bicycle. So, now I cannot make this. call. Riding the bicycle. Riding the. bicycle. Get to the next thing. Now, I've missed the time. Should have said. something, but didn't. Fine. But I also. know. No, but I also know. No, no, no. You making AirPods on a bike is terrible. because the wind goes into them. Maybe. this new CEO at Apple will fix this. There's so much wind that goes in that. the other person on the other side.

That's all they're hearing. So I was. like, [snorts] there's no point in. making this call. I also knew that my. friend, if he was plagued by the time, he would say like, "Yo, yo, yo, we need. to chat.". >> I wasn't plagued by this. >> I knew. No, I knew this. So, let me. explain what happened. Now, >> when I made the call, 7:30, I just. finished something. I was done. 7:30, I. made the call. I was like, "All right, call." Now, this is a pet peeve that I. have that is actually affecting people's. friendships, might I say. >> No. WhatsApp lies about how many rings.

are occurring. >> When you phone somebody on WhatsApp, >> this is a deep lie. You're about to go. >> Can I tell you something? Let me tell. you something about my pet peeve, my. friend. And remember, I'm the tech guy. Don't forget this. WhatsApp lies to you. Let me explain to you. WhatsApp will lie. to you. Your phone will be ringing. You. go dial. It'll start ringing on your. end. But it's not ringing on the other. end. >> Calling and ringing is two dimensions. No, no, no, no, no. It does that.

sometimes, but still it will ring on. your So what I'll do, like with. Lawrence, for instance, I'll say, "How. how long did that ring on your side?". He'll be like, "It rang once." I'm like, "Nah, I've been waiting for like 10. rings on my side. We we tracked this on. purpose." WhatsApp will make it seem. like it's ringing on the other side, but. it's not ringing. You think you've been. waiting for long. The other person. hasn't waited. When I CALLED YOU, >> THIS GUY IS, YOU KNOW, THE LAST PERSON. WHO SAID THIS, THE LAST person who said. this was literally Albert Einstein. Do. you remember he said the theory of. relativity [laughter] time is different.

on what your side time is? THIS GUY IS. TRYING TO NO. So let me explain what. happened. So what happens is so depend. on the so on his side. No. So on his. side what happens is you're saying it. rang and then it was done. I waited for. long. >> No I'm telling you from my side it rang. It rang. It rang. It rang. It rang. >> How long did you wait? >> It rang for a very long time. Then I was. like this guy is clearly not next to his. phone and he's not on his phone. >> Done. Then I got onto a bicycle. So if. you phoned me while I'm on a bicycle,

I'm now not going to answer that call. Why? I'm not pulling out my phone while. I'm riding. >> He's on a bike. >> I'm on a bike, my friend. >> It was him. >> I'm on a bike now. I'm not going to pull. out my phone. So now you're calling me. back while I'm on a bike. The calls come. in. >> You see, if you had AirPods, you would. have said at the end of the journey. >> At the end of the journey, >> then I look at my phone. There are many. things that have been missed, but I'm. like, you know what? We'll get to them. another time, another day. And I know. that my friend isn't stressed by them. And that's how we move on.

>> I I wasn't. >> Do you have your phone with you? >> Either way, I apologize. >> Well, I was. Yes. >> Do you have your phone with you? >> Yes. But but I don't even want to test. that. The thing that No, >> you're on speaker. >> No. No. No. >> I want to hear I don't I don't rings. I'm going to do it right now. >> Cuz I have a theory that it could be the. ringtone. You could have those ringtones. that go. and then he's like, >> can I ask you a question? How many. friends do you have in your life that. might actually be your enemies? [laughter]. people who are trying to bring you down. >> I got a handful of far more sinister. frenemies than this.

>> Okay, let's let's see here. Let's see. Speaker, it's ringing already. >> One. >> Yeah, but we're on the same Wi-Fi. Now you're LOOKING FOR WAIT, DO IT. AGAIN. >> On full volume. >> Yes, we're on the same Wi-Fi, >> my [ __ ] [laughter]. >> We're on the same Wi-Fi here. >> Doesn't matter. A call is a call cuz I. want to hear. >> the ringing versus his ring. I'm going. to try again. I'm going to try again. I. called you even just before.

>> This is what technology does to us in. society. >> SWITCHED IT OFF. THAT'S WHY. >> that's why we [laughter] in society, guys. Can I just say. >> no? >> Can I just say Vic, let me actually, you. know, [laughter] Vic, you know, Vic, this is a perfect segue. This is a. perfect segue. >> You know, Vic, this is a perfect segue. for me to ask you. As somebody who. >> No. >> As somebody who uses Asly. >> as somebody who uses technology. to connect with people, do you ever fear its its ability to.

disconnect you from people? And and and. I I mean, you know, so you actually got. me uh April 1st, you put out the video. >> I remember being very sad. >> Vic put out a video saying he was. quitting Instagram. >> Oh. when he was playing with us. >> and he was quitting speaking publicly. and it was and it was slides. >> Yeah. >> Each slide I got more emotional. >> I got more sad. He's talking about all. the money he's lost for being outspoken. He's talking about how, you know, it's. not worth it anymore. He's just going to. go into a hole and not say anything in. societ. Yo, I was deep [laughter] and I.

was feeling it. >> Yeah. >> And then the last light he was like. April Fools. >> Yeah. >> I didn't appreciate that. [laughter and clears throat] cuz I. thought at some point we just get over. April Fools, but not Vic Mensah. >> That was fun every time. [laughter] But. no, but you know, you know what it did? It it honestly did bring up. I thought. to myself, I was like, "Yeah, but like. you're putting out these videos at a. pretty frequent rate." Now, >> the one thing you can't control is where. the videos go, how the videos go, how. people even pick out a piece from the. video, splice it together, cuz you.

you've curated something. You've put out. a message, but then there's somebody out. there who's going to take the message. and cut it and and make it seem like Vic. Mensah said this or make it seem like. VicM out of it. How do you how do you. process it and does it affect what you. do or do not say? >> Sorry, just for this is a real thing. Before uh you go into that for those who. don't know, let's say my mom was. watching. Do you know what I'm saying? Just could you describe the videos? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, if you. actually this No, this is a good this is. a good point. For those for those who. don't know, it's the you've seen them.

If you I think Dave is secretly telling. us he hasn't seen them. >> I have seen them. I have. >> No, no. Let me tell you what they are. Dave Dave does this sometimes. He be. like, "Pretend my mom." But it's really. him. So Dave, Vic Mensah, uh uh you. probably know him from his his rap. career, hip-hop, etc. Uh fashion, all of. these things. But recently, Vic uh has. blown up online for putting a series or. for creating a series where he speaks to. issues happening in the world. And I. think the biggest thing that's made in. his backyard. >> in his backyard or a backyard, I'm not.

assuming it's his. >> Is that your backyard? >> Oh, no. So, [laughter]. >> and what's what's made it really. engaging is not just the content, it's. like the style and the and the way that. he does it. So, he picks an orange off. of a tree. >> first. >> and then he walks up to the camera and. he starts discussing something while. he's peel peeling the orange and then he. eats the orange and. >> and sometimes he looks at the orange. while he's peeling it. >> Yeah. And then I don't know how. intentional cuz I don't know why or how. this happens, but you you go sometimes. you look.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz that's what made me realize the real. orange. >> Oh, you thought it might have been AI. >> I was like, but when when your thumbs. were in it and then you were like. >> Yeah. Oranges are harder than other. This is true. This is true. You actually. have to think about it. But anyway, these this this is huge. >> Nominated for a Webby. Now it's become. it's it's it's it's become a piece of. internet culture. >> in a way. You know when you know you've. achieved that is when people parody it. >> So I've seen people now go to a tree and. pick another fruit. >> to do a joke about something.

>> Yeah. The guy that brought the Jack. Harlo controversy to life started it. with the tree. So you realize how this. doesn't make sense cuz he pulled a bag. of chips. Um. >> and just another question just a quick. one. What are like just quickly what are. like the range of topics that you sort. of would talk about in. >> I'm talking about things that are. happening in the world geopolitical. things uh my mental health like. experiences that are happening in my. life uh a lot of what's going on in. America African history and events and.

things like that just a lot of same. things I would talk about in. conversation with y'all you know what. I'm saying um the question maybe. originally was. how do you deal with. >> or has it. >> fragmentation [clears throat] of like. >> of your words online? >> You know, I think part of part of it for. me is definitely doing my best to not be. too attached to response, which can be.

difficult, but um to try to stay driven. by message, you know what I mean? Try to. try to stay driven by purpose. I think. about a time I was on your show like. must been 10 years ago. >> Yeah. On the daily show. you know, when. I came back from Palestine and I was on. your show speaking about my experience. in Palestine and in the West Bank and. how it reminded me of uh American racism. and Jim Crow and um that was early in.

the. common parliament of discussions about. Palestine, you for the American. populace, you know what I'm saying? And. yeah, at that time I experienced a lot. of blowback. Not particularly for being. on your show, what I said on there, but. generally for speaking my mind, you know. what I mean? About about what I felt. >> Yeah. You don't know what you're talking. about. Shut up. Who are you? It's Yeah. It's the usual, >> you know, and that like people in. [clears throat] my team and in my circle.

that I didn't know felt very differently. >> about that. Yeah. >> Um and and for sure throughout the years. there's been so much fallout and. consequence and loss of money and loss. of opportunities for um for being. outspoken like for saying the things. that I believe. But ultimately I have. tried the opposite. You know what I. mean? I've tried to like muzzle myself. and and be silent at times when I knew I. had something to offer of value. And.

that was pretty soul crushing too, you. know, that that didn't like that didn't. lead me in the right direction either. And I feel like maybe. I've started to feel that leaning into. purpose and like being driven by my. purpose. serves me, you know, that it's better. for me, it's better for the world. And. if people fragment it, if people. misunderstand it, if people misuse it, um, that's going to be a part of it. I'm. sure there's been so many times when.

things that you've said Oh, yeah. have. been. >> manipulated. >> Yeah. I mean, look at what WhatsApp did. to me with my friend. >> WhatsApp is the. >> Just that alone, I mean, look at it. We're going to continue this. conversation right after this [music]. short break. You know what I love about spring? Everything just feels fresh again. [music] The weather shifts. People start. going outside more. and suddenly you. feel like you should be eating something. that [music] didn't come out of a. packet. That's why I like going to Whole.

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the things that make you feel like. you've got your life together. And then. of course you go in for that and you. leave with things you didn't plan for. like a peach apricot rose Italian soda. or those 365 by Whole Foods Market. strawberry pretzels that somehow. disappear before you even get home. And. if you're hosting or even just showing. up somewhere trying to impress people, the bakery has you covered. The mango. yuzu chanti cake, the strawberry. shortcake, these are the kind of. desserts where people don't ask. questions. They just assume that you.

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about what you do though specifically. is, [music]. and I I I hope I can frame this. correctly. I feel like some people. create things online. so that they can create more things. online. And and I the reason it's hard to. articulate is because people go like but. isn't everyone trying to make things to. make things? No. I think of it like. this. Okay. Politicians, especially in. America, I find. spend all their time or a lot of their.

time campaigning so that they can be. reelected. >> so that they can campaign so that they. can be reelected. So that they can. campaign so that they can be reelected. >> Then I go, "Wait, wait, wait. What was. the point of getting into power if you. never used that power for the people who. voted you in?". >> Right? And they go, "As soon as I'm in. fundraising, I got to get more money and. and I got to get this." And yeah, I go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but why?" Well, so. that I can get reelected so that you can. do something. You forget the initial.

purpose of why you came in. It would. have been better for you to come in for. a single term, do your damnedest to. deliver, and just leave. It would have. been better for you, and it would have. been better for your constituents. I. think there's also something that's. happening online where. there used to be a world where people. would create things and put them online. because they wanted to create things. But then now people create so that. people can view them so that they can. create so that they can view them so. that they can create so they can you. know what I mean? So that's when people. become parodies of themselves. They.

become caricatures of themselves. They. they they do things to to like make you. feel a certain way, right? >> Yeah. I don't say this to gas you up. Honestly, I never feel like you're. trying to spark outrage. I never feel. like you are trying to make something go. viral. I never feel like you are like I. don't I don't feel riled up by your. comments both for you or against you. And what I mean by that is I don't watch. your videos and go, "Yeah, get them, Vic." And I don't watch your videos and. go like, "I can't believe Vic said." I.

just listen to you and I find myself. going, "Damn, what an interesting way to. phrase that." That's a that's an. interesting lens that he applied on this. topic or that's that viewpoint. Wow, I. like the way he put that together with. but but like is that am I am I reading. that correctly? >> I appreciate that immensely coming from. you, man. I'm just like I'm a consumate. fan of your comedy and and really your. perspective cuz I feel like you're. somebody that shows me that. >> mediums are just that. They're they're.

avenues with which to express what is. contained by the human being. Oh, damn. >> You know what I'm saying? And that like. comedy is a medium for sure. And then. late night TV was its own medium. You. know, even this is its own medium. Um, I. was watching like uh your newest special. um on on Netflix and I was just like I. was so glad to to be watching you as a. comedian. >> You know what I'm saying? Because like. I'm just such a huge fan of you as a.

comedian and that medium, you know what. I'm saying? That that way of looking at. the world and dissecting it. [ __ ]. Martin Luther King realizing he fought. for bland chicken [laughter]. so good. Um, and uh, and the purpose of. it, you know what I'm saying? even like. as I've been doing the things I've been. doing right now online, it's really in a. way been my way of um dissecting how I.

see the world, but also like working on. writing jokes and like making fun of it. and having. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, having um. genuine conversation the way I would. talk to a friend, you know, cuz the. world is [ __ ] on fire. It's crazy. But. >> we black people, man. You know what I'm. saying? We make everything fun. We ain't. just like sitting around suffering about. it. You know what I mean? >> I'm sure [ __ ] even on the plantation. Yeah, that's I guess that's what Joy in. the Trenches was about. That's literally.

[ __ ] on you. You made a plantation. joke like the [ __ ] overseer comes and. you you picking the cotton while he. there. As soon as he leave, you say you. [ __ ] dirty ass. >> Yeah, but I think wet hair, wet dog. smelling ass white [ __ ]. >> Well, these are not my words. Let me. just say [laughter] Vic has just added. his own. >> He just paraphrased everything. [laughter] Eugene was looking at me. like, "Hey, who is my [ __ ] YOU. >> wet ass dirty. >> dirty [laughter] dog smelling ass." The. [ __ ]. >> something.

I've realized that once purpose is a. selfish pursuit. It just when people get to experience it. from you, they think there's more to it. than there actually is. So for example, the example that you made about. politicians sometimes, >> [ __ ] wait, hold on, say that again. >> So purpose is a selfish pursuit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. people you and they enjoy. it. They start thinking they make it. that they make. >> the result of your of your purpose. >> like it was always for them. >> It was always for them. So when when a. politician is campaigning, >> just maybe they like being on the road,

>> just maybe they like the staff meetings. and the late campaign and the photo. shoots, but they were never about. service delivery. They were never about. making sure that you get the water. But. we see it in South Africa. >> This is true. >> Those that are good at rallies [snorts]. and they good at the campaign. >> Yeah. They love the life. >> Yes. But they never thought they'll have. to actually sit down and understand what. the budgets are. >> How you guys feel about Julius MMA? >> I mean it's that's like how long is a. piece of string? >> No, no, no. I'll tell you why. So the.

first thing I'll say is. >> I see him from my American perspective. not knowing so much. >> Okay. I'd love to know. Tell us how you. see how you see him and then we'll tell. you. YEAH. [laughter]. >> Just don't say it. [laughter] You just. don't know what you're doing with that. weapon. It's a brilliant weapon. >> For sorry again for for [laughter]. context before you answer the Julius MMA. uh question. For those who don't know, Julius Malemma is one of the like people.

that people point to to say that he is. promoting the white genocide. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Julius MMA I would say is. like our most controversial publicly and. internationally known. >> politician in South Africa. >> Yeah. He's In fact, when Trump when. Trump came after South Africa, Julius. MMO was like the thing he held up as. like here's the example I'm using. >> Had to kill the boar. >> Yeah. Yeah. The boar the farmer. Like. what a good song. I mean like. >> it was f Yeah. I mean that's how it felt.

to me as a [laughter]. as a black American. I was like I. resonate with this. This [ __ ] the beat, you know what I mean? >> It does have a vibe. Yeah. >> Yeah. Killer. Literally. Um Julius. Malemma. Yeah. I look at him not knowing. so much. >> Yeah. >> And I love him. I mean, he seems like. he's he's the one that is um fighting. back by any means necessary. That's the. feeling, the sense that that I get from. him. When I was in South Africa,

>> something that broke me was to realize. that. >> white people are maybe about 10% of the. population, I think, even less in South. Africa, maybe even less. and hold 90% of. the wealth. >> Then I think about America where black. people are about 10% 13%. And. >> once again, white people hold 90% of the. wealth. And being [clears throat] there, being on the continent, you know, I. mean, in this cradle of [ __ ]. civilization and seeing that that.

[snorts]. >> freedom was so partial, >> you know what I mean? and that the uh. the ownership of of the land and the. wealth um was squarely not in the hands. of the Africans was riveting. You know. what I mean? The the the woman I was. with at the time, she had to like check. me at a at a point in time she like you. can't just get mad at every white person. you see. [laughter] And I'm like I'm. like but why the [ __ ] you [ __ ] own.

everything, you know? And and I'm livid. You know what I mean? And then I see. Julius MMA and he's like kill the boar. the [laughter] farmer you know and I'm. like that's my [ __ ] you know my [ __ ]. >> my [ __ ] [laughter]. >> I'm [ __ ]. >> my [ __ ]. >> yeah okay this guy's with Okay. >> So tell me how you guys. >> so and Eugene I mean you'll interject. anyway this this is this is how I see. it. I think Julius MMA in terms of his. rhetoric has one of the most progressive.

rhetorics that I've ever come across and. he and he he's inspired one of the more. necessary conversations not just in. South Africa but on the continent and in. the world as a whole and the argument. cuz there's people who won't know it is. if I distill it down it is fundamentally. this. can you claim to give somebody their. freedom if you do not give them the. tools to actually exercise that freedom. M. >> right and and if I was to use an analogy. here often times what I think he's.

speaking about in terms of restitution. is he'll go. South Africa's racism you don't have to. go far back you know you don't have to. go back like hundreds and hundreds and. hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of. years it's our parents literally like. not not figuratively it is literally our. parents. >> who were the last like like let's say. adult victim victims of apartheid. >> and then we were born in. >> aparttheides.

>> and then we experienced democracy and. freedom. >> outside of it. >> Yes. And so we grew up outside of it. >> But when you when you look at that. there are many things that the state. stole from black people and all other. people of colored people in you name it. The state stole these things from them. took that and gave it to the white. population in South Africa. And many of. them, and this is something that I think. is important to to say, many of them. unknowingly receiving it. >> Yeah. >> Which is which is a part of the.

conversation people don't really have. often, many white people in South Africa. were obscured from the reality of the. situation. >> Yeah. >> So they were going, we get good roads, we get free schools, we get. unemployment. Seems like the. government's doing a good job. >> Opportunities. >> And then the government would just go, hey, just so you know, man, these black. people are crazy out here. We're holding. them back. and the only place they got. their reality from was from the. governments. And so in the same way, it's funny. I remember when I went to. the uh African-American History Museum,

one of the things you see um MLK talk. about is he in all of his writings when. he's trying to get journalists to come. out and cover what's happening, he's. saying in his writing, and I I. paraphrase this because I don't know if. I'll say it accurate, but he says. because I truly believe when our white. brothers and sisters see what is being. done, see what is being done by the. American government to black people, I. believe that they will stand up with us. So I I find it fascinating that even in. America,

MLK and then in South Africa, white. people were being were were obscured. from the truth. The truth was being. obscured from them, right? So they receive these things. The. government steals from black people to. make white people live a life that is as. as good and as easy as possible. >> Democracy comes, but there is no restitution. And there. is no correcting of this. You know, the. analogy I always use with people is I. go, "Your house is robbed. The police.

come, they say, "Hey, we've solved the. case. You you were robbed and we caught. the person who robbed you." And you go. like, "All right, so what do we do now?". They're like, "No, no, no. We're not. going to do anything now. They're going. to keep everything that they stole from. your house, >> but we can all agree that this was. terrible.". >> And you're like, "Wait, wait. That. that's it." [clears throat]. >> It's like, "No, no, no. Let's let's. start from here now. M we do agree this. was terrible so let's let's move forward. from here but we don't want to take it. back from that person because I mean two. wrongs don't make a right. >> this is why I love Julius Mumba. >> right but the issue is.

>> and this is the issue I have with many. politicians. rhetoric. versus action. >> maybe I'm an outlier saying this maybe. I'm not I think Julius MMA and many. other politicians like him not just in. South Africa but on the African. continent have fantastic rhetoric. >> but the actual that they participate in. do not necessarily do what they need to. do to liberate the people that they're. trying to liberate. >> Mostly it's a timing thing. So there's a. strange thing about South African.

history that if you tell it the way it. is, you run the risk of being an. apologist for the Africana apartate. system. >> Oh, that's interesting. >> because it starts in three parts. So the. first part was the British who oppressed. the black people, the co and indigenous. people of the country and the Afric and. and the and the black people, >> right? And then when the British were. like, "Okay, now you can have your own. republic." And they left. They left the. whole system to the Africana, then the. Africana started the Dutch. Yes. >> So they were like, "Okay, now we going. to run this thing our way." And then. they took the system that the British.

had and gave it a name. So before it was. just colonization. And then they called. it apartite. >> But now they were like, "Okay, now we're. going to promote two races here. Colored. people will be the second and then we'll. be the first one, which is the. Africana." But even in the Africanas, not all Africanas benefited from a. partate. There was eliticism as well. It. went with surnames and which people were. prestigious and who was educated because. when it was first formed, there was a. first group that was sent to Holland to. go study architecture, literature and.

art to create the Bernie paintings that. we see that were all in government. buildings to create the architecture of. the parliament and the union buildings. And the rich people gave up land which. is now owned by the state pritoria dam. were all owned by the elite. >> who were connected with Netherlands who. with Dutchland. So Africans people did. not just benefit. So what we see as. historical suburbs and schools that are. model C that we call model C which were. the first to get integrated was because.

they were not protected by privilege. >> Those were workingclass neighborhoods. >> where they put a stadium here and a. school here. So the integration happened. there first. So it was harder to. penetrate the big ass mansion suburbs. that the elite people that own the mines. and the land and the farms were living. in and it will never happen in our. country. So the second part about what I. find which is a weird social experiment. with Julius Madame and the EFF is. revolution can never happen in a. democratic society and that kind of.

rhetoric of revolution. Remember that. these guys grew up in the ANC of Peter. Mukaba who was a fire brand who was the. next spoken up person after Nelson. Mandela and he just happened to be a. young person when Nelson Mandela was. released and they grew up under him. So. their rhetoric about what democracy I. mean what revolution is what freedom is. was mistimed because in the middle of. democracy you can't shout those words. while you yourself are in a Range Rover. and a Mercedes-Benz and living in old. historic suburbs and your children are. enjoying private schools. So his voice.

got lost in there. The second part about. that group was he was not a lone wolf. There were two other guys who were. involved in the building of the party. that people liked as if it was a boy. band. So there was uh the academic which. is Dr. Musloi and there was another. person who loves finances academic which. is Floyd Shivamu and those people left. the party and he was left alone to. become a dictator. >> Julius MMA. Yeah. >> Yes. But the funny part about that is. there was an inquiry now in South Africa. and there was a parliamentary panel of. it which he everyone expected to be the.

chair of it. He refused to be the chair. of it and he recused himself from a lot. of testimonies of corrupt policemen that. involved him. >> So he's losing the fight over and over. and right now two weeks ago he was found. guilty of discharging a firearm in a. rally. >> and he was charged and he's going to. face time. >> Yeah. He was sentenced to 5 years. >> Well he said the farmer. >> Yeah. Then he go and THEN HE SHUT DOWN. >> THAT'S my favorite part of the song. [laughter]. >> Now he's now serving time forever. >> Yeah. So if if he if he was convicted.

and charged for for helping a person who. was being mistreated because of their. race, I would be like, "Okay." But for. breaking the Firearms Control Act, discharging a machine gun, >> see this is funny. This is funny. This. brings me to one of my other. realizations about South South Africa. So different. Uh I was learning about. the hip-hop artists and they were like, "Man, in South Africa being a hip-hop. artist and uh being a gangster is. actually like a demerit to your career. because it makes you seem uh less. commercially viable." Because to hear.

about uh a well-known public figure. going to jail for saying and discharging. a firearm, this connects to things I. like about artists. >> This is connects to things that seem. very familiar to me. Like, man, South. Africa would show me so much, bro. I was. like, uh, first of all, I just think the. entire idea of Africconers is hilarious. So, you just a white [ __ ] to put an. extra A in your name and [laughter] now. you think you're an African? You're. [ __ ] Dutch? Like,

>> and French? >> Go and French. And go the [ __ ] home to. those two very distinct places. I look. at [ __ ] Elon Musk's uh loosekinned. Sith Lord ass father who sits there and. he says [laughter]. uh America's becoming darker by the. minute. Well, why would they want to do. that? Do they want to go back to the. jungle? It's like, [ __ ] you got a. place you could go back to the. Netherlands. That's right. They they'll. welcome you with [ __ ] open arms. I. just. >> What's funny is they don't Oh, they.

really don't. No, that's the funny thing. about the story that people forget. >> is many of the original Dutch settlers. who came to South Africa were outcasts. >> The Netherlands was like, "We don't want. these people." The same way the original. people who settled in Australia were. outcast. They were like, "We don't want. >> claim a new state and claim uh. >> Yeah. But but to Eugene's point, I think. I think the key thing that we lose in a. lot of these conversations, >> and that's funny enough, I think why. many of your v videos have res resonated. with people. >> is when you peel back metaphorically and.

literally the layers. >> Mhm. >> Class is the one thing that emerges. constantly and consistently. >> and it's not going anywhere. Yeah. Do. you get what I'm saying? >> So to your point, race being a fiction, it's like, yeah, it is. It is, you know, it's a subjective reality. So race. doesn't exist, but it also does. >> But racism is is very real. >> The effects of race are very real and. race is a subjective amort. >> There you go. But class, there's a.

there's a um an English writer who said. it beautifully one day and and she said. she said, "I cannot wait for the United. States to finish its race war so that it. can realize that it was fighting about. class all along. >> the entire time." But race was the was. the justification. >> Yeah. The creation of the of class. always look for things. >> But you've seen it in in South Africa. where. >> there would be a our uncles or our dads. would be working in a factory with white. people.

>> Yeah. >> And they would be great friends because. of the class that they find themselves. in. >> There's a solidarity in that. One day. your uncle would go visit his white. friend suburb and he'll be like you are. poorer THAN ME. THEY BE LIKE BUT WE WORK. at the same place and we earn same. salary. It's about classism. I've seen. the same way. >> class distinction in South Africa. >> Have you seen so shocking. >> how white people in South Africa would. treat a white beggar? >> Oh, no. I haven't I would argue most of. the time them. I was going to uh to Suto. and I was stopping by uh my friend's.

family home and her uncle was massively. wealthy. I had never seen this level of. wealth except maybe in the homes of. Jay-Z and Kanye. And I asked what he. did, you know, and he made his fortune. selling toilet paper to the prisons. Interestingly, the same private prison. companies that own facilities in. America, Geo Group, Core Civic, they own.

private prisons in South Africa. So they. profit from the same confinement, destruction of of black bodies. And. >> I saw him making his fortune supplying. those prisons as a way of shucking and. jing for sure. >> I go to So. >> I'm going to get shiyama, you know what. I mean? I'm. >> I'm catching my vibe and this man jumps. out. >> once again like to try to give me a. parking spot, you know, help me for a. tip. And he was singing this song. He.

said, "My name is Jack. I live in a. shack. I might be black, but I got a. six-pack. [snorts]. >> And uh yeah, he had that was his song. I. remember it vividly. Um oh, he was so. hungry. He had a six-pack. >> Damn. >> You know what I'm saying? And I was. like, he's really shucking and jing. And. it was crazy though because I was like, damn, >> for a black man to. >> to to make it. to put food in his body in in this. society, I'm seeing shucking and jing on. a street level. And even the richest.

[ __ ] is sucking and jing like. >> to achieve this momentous wealth. And. that that [ __ ] kind of it frustrated me, man. >> But I argue though. But I argue though, those are two spikes from a. multi-pronged. world because South Africa is I mean far. from perfect. Don't get me wrong. But I. will say only thanks to traveling I have. come to appreciate.

how many more paths are starting to. appear for black people. >> Yeah. >> So there there are black people who've. let's not even call it a fortune cuz not. every person has made a fortune. There. are black people who are just like doing. it, you know, a completely different. way. like you know uh I can think of. like a woman who started out selling you. know what we call but let's say like a. version of like a fried donut type thing. >> on the street corner selling it out of a. bucket doing it and then you go back.

there today and you're like oh wow now. she has like a like a store and an. enterprise and she's running this thing. >> and then on the other hand you have. accountants and you have lawyers you. still have a guy on the street begging. and doing this and I I'm not saying it's. perfect but what I what I have. appreciated about it is. >> is that it's It's sort of it's reminded. me. of the class story as opposed to the. race story and and what I mean by that. is [snorts] even in South Africa. So you. see what you said earlier in the. conversation about Ghana where they'll.

say ah white man and they have a name. for it. What do you say? >> Say again. >> Yeah. In Nigeria is on my t-shirt. I've. been fighting over my whole [ __ ]. life. >> And then with us we have Yeah. Oh, or. >> but it's said as like a it's like you. have achieved you have achieved so much. that you are now in the echelon of the. white man. >> Yeah. >> That that is how well you've done. >> Mhm. >> What I appreciate is like over time, not.

tomorrow, I think that slowly. disappears. That slowly becomes, you. know, and then we we get away from it. and then hopefully we go, "Oh, okay. Now. we're just dealing with like a class. thing." Cuz without without that, we. don't go anywhere. Yeah, I also feel. like um. South Africa was just built on a lot of. systemic corruption as well. Like a lot. of stuff was given to people and. businesses were given to people that. didn't deserve it. And as soon as. someone gets caught, the whole value.

chain doesn't get caught. So for example. in South Africa when apartid ended a lot. of buildings were given to people who. were literally children who didn't know. what they were doing. they were just. given these build these title deeds of. these buildings. So as they grew up as. adults they end up inheriting these. buildings owning them. So when the state. wants the building they have to buy the. building from them. >> right? So now you see it with um people. who are got caught like for example. there's a there's a system called the. tendering system where we come and then. we bid whoever has the lowest price.

You have it as well. >> Yeah they have in the US. >> So the toilet paper story he's probably. a tenderreneur. He probably put on a bid. and then someone tipped him and then he. got the thing. But the thing is what. happened with that money is the money. buys houses, buys cars, but the. dealerships are not owned, luxury. dealerships are not owned by black. people. Luxury estate agents are not. black people. So the money still. circulates amongst the same people. Again, >> the story always ends with the people. people wanted to end with. It's like, you know what, it reminds me of Miami. I. always found it interesting that like.

every documentary that would teach you. about the drug trade in Miami will talk. about the money that drug dealers were. spending, you know, these Colombian drug. lords and these. >> but they never talk about the fact that. the money went somewhere. >> Yes, >> corruption needs a cycle. You can't be. corrupt alone. >> You know when people be like a Africa so. corrupt then I'm like with who? >> You ever seen that video of the. so-called African politician who was. like corruption is not bad. It is only. bad if I'm not a part of it. If I am a.

part of that corruption, I defend it. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Yeah. But corruption, corruption with. corruption cannot be alone. So when. people go, "Africa is corrupt." I'm. always like, "Yes, but with who?". >> You look at the stories, there'll be. corruption. >> There'll be an arms deal that's corrupt. with a French company, like a massive. We're not talking like like a mom and. pop store. >> Talking about like a French arms. contractor. It'll be with an American. company. it'll be with like a then. you're like oh okay there are outside.

forces that are really powerful that. know they can come into Africa do deals. with certain people but then leave the. corruption story. >> in Africa. >> and and but still be the puppet master. I mean that's. long-term strategy is to be able to keep. the system of corruption going without. having to be the face. >> Oh yeah yeah for sure. You know, even. like one of the common conversations. between Africans and black Americans is. uh the idea that Africans, you guys sold.

your own, you sold us into slavery. And. this is a common point of contention. Um. when I was studying man this book called. uh how Europe underdeveloped Africa by. Walter Rodney he illustrates so clearly. the way that the Europeans stifled every. mode of legitimate trade so that African. states nations empires were left with. only the option to deal in the most. corrupt trade to deal in slaves. So.

certain like Dome king sent emissaries. to Portugal to request that the trade. and slaves end and that they change to. legitimate trade and goods. And Portugal. was like, "Fuck no, we're cutting off. all land routes. You can no longer you. can't trade with your neighbors. We have. superior naval capabilities. We're. cutting off the sea. You can't trade by. sea. the only option we're going to. leave you is that you trade in slaves.

And and the system of slavery that was. which is the system of corruption that. was brought to the continent was so wide. reaching and it was so pervasive and. all-encompassing that no uni no uh. single African state really had the. agency to fully reject the system of. slavery. So you end up in this place. where I mean all your options have been. exhausted. You know what I mean? and. you're forced into slavery. But then. it's so insidious because it leaves the.

idea even amongst yourself and your. progeny and your descendants that you. were the source of the corruption that. led to your current state of. destitution. But really, it's just it's. still the puppet master. I mean, it's. still the the the French national. corporation that's trading arms with the. rebel group that's fighting back against. Bkina Faso's Ibrahim Troy. You know what. I mean? It's still like a shadowy puppet. master for sure that's funding all of.

the [ __ ] But they want us to believe. that Africa is so corrupt so that. >> we think we're the source of our. suffering. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> That's one of the reasons I appreciate. Donald Trump. >> Jesus bloodfist. >> No, for real. >> I feel you though. >> Can I tell you one of the reasons I. appreciate him. >> is that he has not. maybe cuz I don't think he understands. why it's necessary. He's not. participated in the far. >> right. >> that has kept people seeing the world a.

certain way. >> Explain. >> Okay. So, let's look at Venezuela as an. example. >> Mhm. >> What did Trump originally say the whole. Venezuela beef was about? He said the. way this man treats his people, you. know, he's talking about Maduro. Yeah. Nicholas Maduro doing these things to. his people. How can he do this? Freedom, democracy. We got to, you know what I. mean? the people of the the people of. the country. They ousted Maduro. Okay. They get Maduro. He's out. He's now in a. prison in the United States.

What does Trump say afterwards? People. go like, "So, regime change? Are we?". He's like, "No, the people in there real. happy. They're going to let American. companies in and we're very happy." And. you go, "Yeah, but what about the. people?" Remember you said the people. There were people cheering, by the way, when helicopters were flying in and. there was gunfire the night that Madura. was taken. There were people in the. streets of Venezuela cheering because. they and they were saying they were. saying. >> they were cheering going, "Oh my, it's. happening. He's being like they were. excited for the change and the fact that. they were going to be freed from this.

dictator.". >> And then Trump turns around and he's. like, "No, no, no, no, no. American. companies can come in and do business. again. >> and we're going to own the oil.". >> Yes. And that's. >> we're going to be taking care of the oil. >> and we're happy. >> and we have the oil. I I. >> And then you go, "Okay, but what about. the democracy side?" And he's like, Hey, look man, the point is American. companies can come in and make the. money. Same thing with Iran. You go, why. are you there? What are you actually. doing there? And anytime he has a hint.

of optimism, look at what the optimism. is about. You go, is it about the. nuclear enrichment that they might have? He's like, the point is the straight. will be open and we're going to be doing. this together. It's business, baby. We're back. It's it's business. And. you're like, "Oh, you. that's why I say I don't know if he does. it. I think he does it unknowingly. >> He doesn't understand how valuable the. fast was.". >> For sure. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> Because he's not aligned with um with.

the same. >> decorum of the machine. class of people. >> He recognizes that, you know, he can. manipulate these markets and he can make. a massive steel in this short period of. time and it doesn't matter to him. >> Short period being the key. >> You know what I'm saying? It doesn't. matter to him to continue the false. veneer. >> and he's like, "This is about the oil.". which is actually brilliant because it. breaks down all of the bipartisan lies. and smoking mirrors that they've been.

playing cuz they've been warongering. uh you know with Iran like soft. launching you know what I'm saying these. missiles for [ __ ] like decades you. know he was the first Democrats and. Republicans but he's the first to just. put it on front street to say no. actually we want the oil this is this is. what this is about this is about. >> oh sorry cuz he's he won Venez cuz it's. he won Venezuela. >> He won. >> Yeah. I mean he won. No, no. I I agree. with what Dave. He won the the that was.

a that was a an you cannot victory. >> It was a vic It was a victory. It was a. first round knockout. >> Yeah. First round knockout. >> It was that Mike Tyson fight where. people hadn't even come into the arena. yet. >> That's that's where you f that's what. happened there. >> It's just like old recipe colonialism. but in the modern age. He's trying to. use the old. >> but that was that was a you could not. win more in the like any age. The number. of people who were killed is acceptable. by American standards, right? Because. there's almost like no Americans. I. don't even think there was one. And. they've taken the leader out and they.

got someone who's aminable to what they. want. So yes, >> then you're like, he's losing Venezuela. I mean, he's losing Iran, then Cuba for. the series cuz it's got it's going to be. tied. One Venezuela, [laughter]. >> one Venezuela, Iran, then the Cuban. series. So then sometimes I think that. that the world should help Cuba. So when. it comes to the final, you know what I. mean? >> But no one will. >> Sorry. >> No one will. >> Yeah. Because Cuba represents something. that's so challenging and so dangerous.

to the supremacy of imperialism. And. they represent the [ __ ] they just. couldn't kill. Like Cuba has defied. American supremacy for so long and to be. so close. Yeah. >> And Cuba has sent. to Africa and sent to Angola and sent to. a company like uh Ailar Cabraw in. Guinea. Like I met with OGs that had.

photographs of them with weapons in the. jungle. Damn. >> That had stood side by side with Kwaame. and Kruma, you know what I mean? And. rocked with Patrice Leumba and they're. 90 miles from Florida, you know what I. mean? And so the world can't come to. Cuba's defense because Cuba has defied. the idea that the American way is better. for too long. You know what I mean? >> They stand for something so significant.

And it's interesting though because when. I'm there, the official policy that was laid out by. uh Lester Mallerie in like 1960, an. American uh diplomat was to bring about. um I'm paraphrasing suffering, destruction, and starvation to the. people of Cuba to the point that they. revolt against their own and overthrow. the government. That was the official. stated policy. And so much time has. passed and so many people in Cuba have.

been born under these current conditions. that many of them only blame their own. government. >> Many of them don't even consider the. American sanctions. >> as being part of the issue. >> Never mind the fact that [ __ ]. American sanctions not just in Cuba but. around the world over the past 50 years. have killed like I don't know like 50. million people. It's some astronomical. number of people that have died. Yeah. From American sanctions. Uh but once.

again, that shadowy puppet master effect. of being able to circumvent and add in. suffering, starvation, and destruction. through a third party uh like type of. manipulation. It leaves the people. feeling like it's their fault. It's very. similar to the way that Africans will. feel. Uh, Africans often will be like, "Well, what about the corruption that, you know, I mean, that we are corrupt.". We'll feel that. You know what I'm. saying? And I felt that when I was in. Cuba. And it's not that the um that the.

government of Cuba or the government of. Iran that that these are uh perfect. entities, you know what I'm saying? But. they're under the heel of of. imperialism. Like, how can one operate. perfectly under the heel of imperialism? That's that's probably the biggest. paradox in all of this is. there are no perfect messengers. and then the story has been dictated by. the victors. Right? >> So I I struggle with this all the time.

I I don't know how you process it. I go, you would be lying as a person if you. said that Cuba hasn't shown. many of the benefits of not adhering to. like a strict capitalist system. You. know, people educated just because. you're going to be educated, some of the. best teachers, some of the best doctors, etc., etc., etc. And it's important to. state with almost nothing. Like if you. think of resources that the country has. almost nothing, right? >> But then you'd also be lying if you. didn't talk about the oppression of. those same people by that government.

you'd be like, "Yeah, but what about the. people and what you you know what I. mean?". >> What [snorts] I've noticed is. interesting is that the West does a. particularly good job of framing its. oppression and bad deeds of Cuba. >> as no of anyone as an outlier, >> right? [clears throat]. >> You know what I mean? >> So if you say to America or Americans, you go like, "Man, look at how many. people in America starve or die because. the system is designed to make them. starve and die from sickness." People be.

like, "Yeah, well that's when the system. doesn't work well. That's that's that's. not what it's supposed to do.". >> You're like, "Oh, okay." And then you go. like, "Man, look how many schools you've. bombed or how many kids you've killed. around the world or if we put that. number on any other nation or any other. group." I think as the world we agree. we'd probably go after them, right? Like. we we wouldn't that would just not be a. thing. >> We'd have to liberate them and bring. them democracy. But then America goes, "Yes, we know. We know we we bombed this.

school. That is an unfortunate side. effect of what, but we weren't we were. not trying to do it. And so we're. actually the good guys." And it's it it. always breaks my mind because it does. two things. On the one hand, I go, it's all unraveling right now in the. world. I I think we we live in a time. that is unlike many other times in that. there is no one central narrative that. anyone controls anymore. >> And while I'm happy about it, it also.

terrifies me. because. I don't believe that anyone was like. let's say telling the truth about their. country or central power. But I also. don't think the world can survive if. everyone believes nothing and nobody's a. good guy and like do you know what I. mean? If every government's bad and. everyone is bad and everyone is not. doing the right thing, then what. incentive do we have to be part of. anything? >> Yeah. Even outspoken. I think um there's.

enough people who who are supposed to. have opinions and we have a platform. that are having too much of a good time. within the rockness of the system. >> So if Nelson Mandela for example was. having a shitty time, he says my people. are also having a shitty time. >> We're all having a shitty time. >> Yeah. So if the people with opinions are. also like I can also take a business. flight to New York and I have an S-class. and and and and those voices get. stifled. So I think that's what's. happening around the world right now is. there's an outlier once in a while. someone who's doing well and has an. opinion and can influence those with.

opinions to also have more opinions. But. there are those who don't have a. platform who are not having a good time. who can't say much and do much as well. So I think we have to give balance to. that. There's enough information out. there for people to make up their own. minds. But I think when people are faced. with the day-to-day struggles, it's very. hard for them to turn on the news and. feel sorry for people who are being. bombed far away from where they are. What do you what do you think changed? Because when I look back, especially at. American musicians. >> and actors even,

>> this is literally how I grew up. I grew. up watching, >> you know, the stories about race and. class and all that often times through. the lens of like American artists, you. know, and then there were obviously the. ones before my time. But when I think of. like the Nina Simones and the Muhammad. Ali and when I when I watch those. interviews I go damn cuz I mean Dave. like we were on the Daily Show but. >> have you ever watched those interviews. and been like man late night was no like. late night now is like so tell me tell. me about the time you uh you rode a. horse and ate a banana that was a crazy. time and then you go back and watch late.

night from like decades ago and it's. like so um Mr. Mr. Ali you say that. America is inherently racist. What do. you mean by that? And you're like damn. this is late night. Do you get what I'm. saying? >> Because those influential people were. also not having a good time. So when. they got a chance to speak, they would. actually raise up. >> No, but they were they were I would. argue they were having as good a time as. you could be having now. Maybe I'm. wrong. >> No, >> but now like you you're an outlier. whereas back then I don't know that you. would be an outlier per se.

>> I think coel pro just been very. effective. You know, I mean, black people have had. so many mass movements and elevations of. consciousness and they're always. followed by like cataclysmic. events of biochemical warfare, like. crack cocaine hits the streets, not long. after um the Black Panther Party is.

in the footsteps of Malcolm X, like. shifting mental. uh the consciousness of the people. But. then you experience crack cocaine, you. experience mass incarceration, you get. to a point where kids of my generation. in Chicago that are. in working class, so many of them are. like three generations of fatherless. homes. I mean, everybody's been. incarcerated. millions of men. incarcerated and.

>> so many parents. >> addicted to drugs, like passing that. down to to their children. That becomes. >> once again something that we often feel. like we feel ownership of the of the. ways we've been poisoned. >> And then we then we put that into our. art. We make that our focus. We make. that our music. we we lose sight of uh. anything other than the suffering and. the struggle that that we experience and. ascending out of it is kind of seen um.

only from a material context. You I mean. because it's so it's it's so dire the. circumstances are so dire that it's like. cool get the S-Class get the first class. flight that's it. just get out the [ __ ] hood that's. that's the only goal you know what I'm. saying because We lose we lose the dream. of of there not being a hood in that way. and then we just want to get out of it. >> Just want to get out of it. And then you.

even see like ways in which um the. entertainment industry has uh controlled. opposition and platformed focused. corrosive messaging. Y. >> and uplifted those things um very. intentionally. and uh and and it just. becomes pervasive. You know what I mean? Like that's the that's the dominant. thread of of conversation, but it. doesn't last. I think the pendulum. swings, you know what I'm saying? I.

think we're coming back to a time when. for sure things are even when I was on. your show 10 years ago talking about. talking about Palestine. Like that was a. real [ __ ] outlier. >> Yeah, it was. >> It's not now. >> No. And and that's one that's one issue. that people often latch on to and you. know call us singleissue voters or. whatever. But but what happens in uh. Palestine, the money that is funding. this uh genocide in Gaza is very. connected to our everyday lives because. it affects the money that's not going.

into schools. It affects the money. that's not going into healthcare. Affects the money that's not going into. affordable housing. Like it's all very. connected and things have changed in a. way in the past 10 years. Have the. material realities changed? No. >> You know what I'm saying? But I do think. that people's consciousness has to like. shift before the ability to shift the. material realities. >> You know what? It's also Yeah. >> A thing that I think. um. people don't recognize a lot is that.

>> don't say racism is good like you. normally say in our group. >> like I normally. [laughter]. >> is. the. >> I'm a [ __ ]. >> It just sounds like I'm a [ __ ]. [laughter]. Oh yeah, I don't even hear it like that. >> is the um is the fact that some of the. things that people do are like I don't. know maybe I won't say this clearly but. we see people then we go people are good. it feels like people are good you know.

in the world they're just generally good. >> then when something bad happens it. almost seems so unfathomable that it's. that you're like no either life just. sort of like panned out like that or. >> you are a conspiracy theorist. >> I remember talking to a friend about. this when I first came to the US long. before the Daily Show, long before I was. I was in um I was in Los Angeles and I. was going around doing comedy clubs and. nights and I I would meet these. comedians and I remember one night I was.

at what they call an urban night, you. know, so it's a black comedy night. Now. where we're from that's just the nights, you know what I mean? night. [laughter]. >> Amanigas everywhere. >> So, it's all it's all an urban night. >> with your Ghanaian butler going. [laughter]. >> SO, WE'RE LIKE, YO, LIKE and and and we. had this conversation [laughter]. and he said something that, man, it. really stuck with me. He said um. he said he said he was we're talking.

about like conspiracy theories and not. believing and and you know and then he. said to me he said man one of the things. I wish I just wish that African-Ameans. didn't have as many conspiracy theories. as they have and this is a black man. saying this by the way. >> and then I said to him if anything I I. feel like black people should be full. conspiracy theorists only especially in. America. >> because the amount of times the. conspiracy theory. >> has actually been true. >> has been true for black people in. America. I go I don't understand why you.

are I'm actually impressed that you're. not fully a conspiracy theory. >> Yeah. But even that term is to cover up. what could be potentially the truth. >> Yeah. But I'm just saying theory. [laughter]. >> you know always you you would love this. I actually I actually met someone who. worked at the CIA and I asked him the. question. I said yo um it wasn't me it. was a friend of mine asked it while. we're there. said, "How many conspiracy. theories are true?". And the guy laughed and he said, um, he. said, "Obviously, I can't say anything. to you, but he said, but I will tell you.

this. Often times at the agency, we. would be grateful." This was a really. interesting phrase. He said, "We would. be grateful. at how crazy conspiracy theorists were. because half the time they were correct, but half the time their conspiracies. were so crazy that we never needed to. like step in and balance.". >> And it was this interesting concept to. me where I went like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. So. half the things you think.

>> are crazy. Whatever you are in whoever. you are in your world, half the things. that you think are crazy are probably. true. >> Yes. >> And then half the things that you think. are true are probably crazy. The difficulties will we'll just never. know. >> Yeah. That's how I feel about the about. the files, man. It was like I used to I. used to look at some of my friends and. some of the online discourse. It' be. like, "Really, guys? A secret cabal of. bloodrinking Democrats abusing children.

globally behind the scenes. Are you. serious? And you see the goddamn files and you. like, "Oh, >> deep.". >> Oh, yeah. Okay. [clears throat]. >> Deep. >> This was real. >> Deep. >> These bloodrinking pedophiles. Like. this. I You couldn't have told me that. I was like, I draw the line at that, you. know? >> And it's where you should draw the line. like me. Like if you if you think of. somebody telling your story to believe. that is uh come on it's crazy. >> and more and more people are starting to.

not question reality but. >> yeah but I I don't mean it in a bad way. >> No but I but I like what you're saying. cuz sorry to cut you off but Dave but. that's that's what that's what like. worries me actually. I know I I hope I articulate this. correctly, but I sometimes feel like. it is. oh man, what's the word I would use? I. sometimes feel like it is.

safer maybe or or. yeah, safer is the only word I could. think of for a society to collectively. believe in a lie that moves them in the. same direction. Same direction being the. key phrase. >> Yes. than for everyone to just have. their own reality. And I I hold it's a paradox in my brain. and it's something I struggle with. because I do not wish for any of us to. quote unquote be living a lie or be. living in a fake world. But then at the. same time,

if everyone believes their own thing and. nobody believes anything, I genuinely. believe that's when society just. disappears as a concept. I mean if you. had a central religion as a central like. it ideas if we take away religion being. bad or good but it just goes like guys. let's believe that we should be nice to. each other. >> Yeah. >> Then you go okay as opposed to I should. be nice to some people or not nice to. I'm saying to your. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm with you. >> Let's be nice to each otherwise you'll. go to hell. >> Yeah. >> You know is like a lie but um.

>> it is [laughter]. >> but but it could help. It it actually is. a lie because it's accept Yeah. It's. accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That's the thing. It's not about this. I. don't want to go into this. >> But I just don't want Eugene to go I. don't want you to go to hell for the. wrong reason. >> I don't want to go into this. This hold. on. [laughter]. >> This man just said go norly. >> Don't press [music] anything. We've got. more. What now after this?

[music]. What do you What do you think people get. the most wrong about you then? Like cuz. I mean the. here I I'll throw it out there. I could. be wrong about this, but when I see like. Vic Mansa, there's so many. iterations of you that I've seen over. time as you would with any artist in the. public eye. Well, there's so many. different iterations of you. I wonder. what people get wrong about you that you. see out there where you're like, "No, that's not me or that's not how I am. anymore or that's that's never been me.".

I think people used to think that I was. very serious and always wanted to fight. somebody. >> You did give off that vibe. [laughter]. >> No, no, no. You did give off that vibe. >> You said I did give. >> I was one of those. No, no, no. I. believe that. >> You thought that was very serious. >> 100%. I'm glad you said that actually. >> Even when I came on your show. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> No. I knew you weren't going to fight. me, but I was like in this in the. hallway. >> Who was going to win? >> I pray to God nobody bumps me. >> I pray to God who was going to win. [laughter] if he fought me. No. Come on. Look at this guy. He's from Chicago.

I'm from Johannesburg. >> No, my friend. No, my friend. No, [laughter]. >> not you. You're not going to win. >> No [ __ ] way. [laughter]. >> I think that that's probably the biggest. thing people got wrong. >> You know, one thing one thing I will say. about Johannesburg, maybe versus. Chicago. I don't know if it's the same. You'll tell me. >> if we can go headtohead, have our cities. battle. One of the one of the most one of the. most important things Johannesburg. taught me growing up with it was. Hillbro, Alex, wherever [snorts] is. knowing when and how to run. >> Yeah.

>> Like fleeing was never seen as a you. know. Yeah. Yeah. People be like they. would maybe as a joke but yo like. running was actually a highlevel skill. If you knew when to run, you were just. as good as knowing to fight. So I don't. know if it's the same in Chicago. [snorts]. >> Yeah. I mean [ __ ] I ran from the pol. I. feel like I'm a slow runner from the. police. and violence. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm talking about like. if someone stepped to you, could you run. >> oneonone? >> Yeah. >> No. >> Two. Two on one. >> possible.

>> Threeon-one. >> Yes. >> Okay. No. >> Okay. >> One-on-one. Somebody steps to me with no. weapon. How could I run? >> Okay. All right. >> No, I can't. >> That would be a violation of my moral. code. >> There you go. See me one. So, if you're. saying when you have violation of my. moral code, dying, [laughter]. >> they can't have a weapon. You're not. going to die. IT DOESN'T MATTER. DOESN'T MATTER. >> I DON'T WANT TO BE A surprise ghost. >> Okay. So you So you were So you were. you've never been or you were not or. you've never been like ultra serious. wanting to fight all the time?

>> No, no, no, no. I've always been Gemini. though. So maybe half the time I I could. have been like. >> I always been everything funny to me. All jokes, but. >> also serious and wanted to fight. >> Okay. No, but I like that's balanced. But people who believe in zodiac signs. are very pragmatic cuz they look at you. and they go what star sign are you? You're like I'm a Scorpio. Like yeah it. makes sense now. And you're like why? Then they tell you what your star sign. >> Gemini is really like that. Gemini is. like very polar. I mean Kanye is a Gemini.

>> Scorpio who and then what about those. ones? Yeah. >> I don't know nothing about Scorpios. I. know about. >> How many star signs do you know? Taurus. >> Taurus is my son. The Tauruses are. stubborn. >> Yes. I just learned about them when I. learned about my son. >> Okay. >> You know, >> Gemini, >> Gemini is is very polar. >> Okay. Okay. >> And uh and and cancers. I know cancers. >> Okay. >> You know, >> it's a deadly disease. >> I know a little bit about Aries. My. girl's an Aries. >> You know, >> um Aries are fire fiery. >> Look at this guy.

>> You know what I do like about star signs. is. >> it comes with a lot of grace. >> That's what I'm saying. Pragmatic. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like like. >> you hear someone, you're like, "What's. star sign?". >> Yeah. But what I mean by it is like star. signs they they just they come with a. lot of grace. So someone will say, "Man, this person's stubborn." Oh, h that. explains it. I think is that what you're. saying? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's. there's they allow people to be. themselves. >> and to have and to contain all of. themselves. >> and they almost they almost make you. feel like the mistake that the flaws. that people have their own.

>> Yeah. You blame it on their. >> eyes and then you point. >> that is that is like how being a Gemini. is definitely a like mental it's a. mental illness at times. You know what. I'm saying? Because you're so polar. You. feel one thing with complete passion and. the next day you think something. entirely different. You know what I. mean? One day I could be. >> upset and want to fight people all the. time and the next minute everything's a. joke to me. But I think like my process. of coming into a a a livable experience.

is to learn not to be a slave to my. nature. >> My nature as a Gemini is. >> very dual. It's a duality. My nature is. that way. But to have integrity is to uh. intentionally choose to make decisions. that I can rationalize from any side of. my personality. And before I wasn't like. that at all. Like I was I was a slave to. my nature. You know what I'm saying? And.

like my Gemini would be like, "Oh, I. have to say exactly what I think to this. person at the time that I think it. I. have to tell him. I'mma slap him in his. mouth." And [laughter] he he violated. So I am justified. You know what I'm. saying? Like. >> this is the right thing to do. You know, it should be done. >> It should not only it should be done, it. will be done. >> It has been done. [laughter]. [ __ ]. >> and like you know just just growing just. growing is is to come to realize that.

like. >> although my my natural proclivity my. inclination as a Gemini. >> is to be this way that I'm not beholden. to that like I can have the discipline. to not act out my [ __ ] intrusive. thoughts at all times as a Gemini you. know those are the best ones but they. also get you in a lot of goddamn trouble. they can get you in years of trouble. >> What are intrusive thoughts? >> They're mine. >> No, I'm just saying what are they? >> Mine is to flip this [laughter] [ __ ]. desk.

>> Wait, these are the thoughts you guys. are having. >> Just when he said intrusive thoughts, [laughter] just in that moment, I was. like, >> damn. >> Don't you have intrusive thoughts? Like. when you're driving, YOU'RE LIKE, IF I. GO like this, what would happen? >> Like in an airport, you got a mother, you just want to punch him in the. [ __ ]. >> You see, it's funny that that idea, the. first time that came into my head was. because you said that you said this to. me more than like 15 years ago. You. never think of it. >> I've I had never before you. >> thought of possibly veering my vehicle. into opposing traffic. >> just to see what happens. >> Yes, but I'm saying.

>> it is your intrusive thought. >> Actually, that's exactly what it is. >> This could be like Fight Club and you're. not even real. >> Think of. >> Do you realize, you know, I just. realized that right now what would. happen? >> I just realized right now you might be. real. >> But it's really the Philly version of. him that's INTERESTED [laughter] THOUGH. WITH. >> THE AFRICAN. >> HE'S like young bull crash your [ __ ]. Young bull. [laughter]. Allah whack bar. Crash that [ __ ] car. Allah whack bar. Young bull. [laughter]. >> Oh man. >> You know as we when we started this. conversation I was wondering why I.

started gravitating towards your videos. and I understood what it was a little. bit now after speaking. >> to you. It's. >> you almost cut across from our. generation of thinking cuz him and I go. into these rabbit holes a lot. But. obviously we say what we want to say in. our way. >> Yeah. >> We don't say it the way that you say it. But there's two things that you taught. me. There's one thing that you taught me. a long time ago and there something that. my daughter taught me the other day is.

was giving people grace. One and. understanding when to use your privilege. cuz I've I've always struggled with. that. And then I remember when we. started doing television, cuz I started. doing television way later than he did, and we did a show together. And there. was this one director that was just a. douchebag. And I just got angrier and. angrier and angrier cuz in my head I saw. what he was doing as a director as a. racist move. >> And I was ready to quit the show. And I. remember you called me to the side and. then you said to me, "Yo, you must. understand one thing.

They already don't want us here." And I. was like, "They the white people.". You're like, "No, them as a crew, they. already think there's someone better who. can do this job. It's not about race. If. you walk away, you proving him right, but if you stick around, you're only. going to get better." Then I was like, "So, it's not about race." He was like, "Maybe it might be on the side.". >> He always said, "You never know.". >> Yeah. On the side, a tinge of racism. >> Oh, it's always about race. >> Yeah. But basically, [laughter] the the. guy sitting there going, I know someone. who could have done this thing better.

>> Yeah. Should have even. >> should have done it better. [clears throat] And then that never left. my mind because I was always ready to. act on my intrusive thoughts. If someone. steps in front of me, they're gone. And. then you gave me that and I was like, ah, it's using the privilege of knowing. >> that you can do better and you can. defeat them by just doing better. >> And there's other thing that my daughter. and I were discussing the other day. It. had to do with a place that we booked. And then when we booked the place, they. said something can't be done until when. after booking the place, I showed up and.

they said you can't do anything. And. then I said, "Don't you feel bad for the. fact that now you can do anything after. they said you can't do anything?" And. she said, "Dad, I would feel bad if we turned it down. from her offer.". Then I was like, "Why?" She was like, "No, it's not just everyone who can do. what they like. And if I can do what I. like because of how you do what you like. and still get paid from it, then I would. be remiss if I didn't take advantage of. the fact that we can do what we like.

>> You know, the poignant thing about what. you're saying, Eugene, there. >> Yes. >> is that um Trev, he told you how to like improve the. world. >> cuz you were like, >> "Look at the circumstance. There's a. better way to handle this.". >> Or just a different way. Yeah. >> A different Yes. a more more effective. way you would say and then you cuz like. Trevor's driving and then you're like. you know what what if you just went into. oncoming traffic [laughter].

this is how we were exchanging. exchanging ideas. It's like. >> yeah and with your world you are able to. use everything that you've learned. throughout life throughout your art. throughout your career to carry out. these videos. You understand the. privilege that you have. It is the. culmination of Vic men's life%. That's. what I would call it. >> Like 10 years ago, this Vic wouldn't. exist. But with the travel that you've. had, the the work that you've done, the. people that you've met, it makes. whatever you have to say very poignant.

because you've lived it. >> And if I may add to that, I don't think. you should ever take for granted how. descriing the message, >> like how important that is. >> What is descri? So oftent times the. things you're talking about are. delivered by scrawny people that nobody. wants to listen to [laughter]. >> in dashik. >> No no you wish it's dashikis. I'm. talking about like when he's talking. about like anything Iran the petro. dollar um like race um you know the the. the casserole state you you name it. A.

lot of the time the people who are. talking about some of these topics. geeks that nobody wishes. >> to like you're like no offense but like. the messenger you know that's one of the. reasons that Nelson Mandela was chosen. right. >> Mhm. is because the ANC he wasn't the. most like senior member in the ANC. He. wasn't like the the. >> He wasn't even the most outspoken one. >> Yeah. And then someone saw him speaking. >> Walter. >> Yeah. Was was Walter Walter Culu. And. was like this guy.

>> the thing that he's doing and the way. he's doing it. >> is the perfect vehicle for our message. >> Mhm. >> Because people realize I mean it's the. same reason Rosa Parks wasn't the first. person who had an issue on the bus. Yeah. But she was the first person where. civil rights leaders who were running. that movement at that time were like. she's the perfect person for us to take. this forward. >> You you I don't think you should ever. take for granted that everything about. you just like.

>> one it doesn't really exist. >> Mhm. Do you know there's no one else. like you in if we overlap everything whe. you know whether it's punk hip hop the. tattoos the Chicago the Ghanaian the. like you name it you name it there's no. one like you doing that. >> so when that vessel presents that video. that message and that story. >> someone can't be like yeah but of course. you would say this you coming from. Connecticut do you know what I mean yeah. of course it's easy for you to say you.

know because you you're stuck. I feel like that. >> I like what you said about privilege. too, man. I mean, I think about. privilege a lot, man. And that like um. >> one has to be like cognizant and. conscious of your privileges in order to. even have an effective message. You know. what I'm saying? In order to have an. authentic message, because we all have. different privileges, you know what I'm. saying? We might be oppressed in ways, be it for our our race, you I mean, we're all black men on this show right.

now. Um, but we're also all men. >> So, we also have a tremendous amount of. privilege. >> by being men. You mean by being. able-bodied men. You know what I'm. saying? Like, there's so many things. that go into it. I I think about that a. lot, especially having having a white. mother and um having certain comforts in. life that have come along with that. And. with my father's occupation, him having. the privilege to be the only one in his. family to come to America. >> You know what I'm saying? like the rest.

of my family in Ghana, they live in in. pretty in pretty abject poverty. You. know what I mean? By by an American. standard, for sure. >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, it's by it's far from. the bottom of the barrel in in their. community, but like by our standard, like not having working restrooms and. >> roofs caving in and you know what I. mean? Like working jobs for 50, 60, $70. a month. Like that's an unfathomable.

[ __ ] reality. You know what I'm. saying? But. >> uh. >> my dad came to America. He had he had. the privilege to to get an education. here. And so I'm living as as both the. the [ __ ]. result of of a lot of privilege in the. midst of a lot of oppression at the same. time. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? And and I. think a lot of time know I can see even. members of my own family just people. close to me that. might have have trouble acknowledging.

their privileges because of the amount. of trauma pain and oppression that they. feel which is valid but it's like yo. without acknowledging our privileges. then the conversation is is is only half. >> au it's only half real you know it's. incomplete you know what I'm saying. without. >> acknowledging. our privileges, which is why I do like. in this conversation, you're doing a lot. for me by bringing a bringing a renewed. lens.

>> to class. because I I do think that I get caught. up in the hamster wheel of a fixation on. race, you know, even when you were. talking and you were like something. about race and I was like everything's. about race. [laughter] You know what I'm. saying? Because yeah, in in a way like. in America, I argue it is it also is. We. had an episode, just to interject there, we had an episode with Sam Morel, the. comedian, right? >> Who's on this podcast? We we made a joke. about something and I think it was like. Jingle Bells maybe or something, just a.

joke randomly. >> And then we we talked about one thing. and then I said to Sam, I was like, "Oh, that that actually has racist roots like. fully fully." And then we laughed and we. talked about it and then he said. something else and I think we said. jingle bells or whatever it was. And. then I said, "Oh, that's also racist.". And he's like, "What?" And I was like, "No, I'm joking. I don't know." And then. [laughter] he said he said he's like nah. knowing America it probably is. We. checked it up after the show. It was. fully racist. >> It it was like. >> no. So so you you you are right is sort. of even to what Dave was saying about. conspiracies and all of that.

>> Both things are true at the same time. It is always about race. >> but. >> but it might not be. >> And just that the the class conversation. is. >> actually the bigger conversation. It's. always about class. >> Where do you put the period on the. sentence? >> It's always about is is important. And I. feel like when you put the period on the. sentence only after race, then often. times you're left without a full. sentence and you're left without like a. clear goal. You know what I'm saying? Because if you just fixate on the racial.

dimensions of things without realizing. how. >> there a a front. >> for the [clears throat] actual class. struggle that exists. Yep. >> This is a lifetime pursuit. You'll just. be frustrated about racism for the rest. of your [ __ ] life. >> Yeah. You you're bas you're basically. chas cuz what you're doing now is. >> you're chasing the shadow as opposed to. the thing that's casting the shadow. >> Mhm. >> And a shadow is real, >> but it is not the thing that is causing. itself. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. And so that's that's the. difficulty with with with this is like.

we we want to be in a world when I look. at the just like all the great minds. It's often been buried when people talk. about their work but MLK spent like a. huge amount of his time speaking about. class. Yeah, >> people now will make it, oh, equality. for all racially and that's more. convenient because that has sort of been. addressed sort of, you know, so people. can be like, well, MLK's dream has been. achieved. And it's like, no, no, but if. you go look at what he talked about. classwise,

>> Yeah. >> you're like, damn, no, no, no, don't. This guy's rattling the cage. And I. think that's why. there are politicians today that are. experiencing the success that they I. actually think the death of the of the. old school politician is that they still. think race is the number one cudil and. it isn't. >> Trump didn't win because of race. >> People will say that he did and there's. definitely parts of his message that are. intertwined in and around race, >> but I argue the man won because of. class. He appealed to class in a way.

that few people fully understand. And. that's why him and Manny could be in the. same room. >> And that's why people could say, "I. voted for Miyani, but I also voted for. Trump." And people like, "What? How? Yeah. Because both of them spoke to. class. >> Yeah. >> So the person who's listening goes, "No, no, no. I heard what Trump said. He said. that I've been left behind. I have been. left behind.". >> Even even that phrase truth to power. because people always think you can only. speak truth to power as it comes from a. person who's under and then speaking to.

someone who's above. But someone who's. above can speak to someone who's under. and speak their truth to that power. because that person also has power as. well. >> Yeah. Martin Luther King really became. >> in immense danger when he started. talking about a poor people's movement. >> Oh yeah, that was. >> for show. That's when they assassinate. you. I mean, Chairman Fred Hampton, he. became that immense danger when he made. the Rainbow Coalition combin when he. pulled in poor white people, >> poor white group, young patriots, with. the Puerto Rican Young Lords, with the. Black Panther Party. when you shift to a.

focus on class that doesn't ignore race, which is where I think a lot of the. liberals. >> lose me is that they want to look at. class as if race is not an. interconnected intrinsically. important dimension of it. When when you. see people shift to a focus on class, it's when they become a real [ __ ]. threat to the power structure. And. Martin Luther King was I [snorts] mean. he was. he was living dangerously. Yeah. >> Like he gets sanitized as being.

>> turn the other cheek like just a. pacifist. But he really wasn't a. pacifist. just had a very brilliant mode. of combat in my mind was that he. understood that by. >> using non-violent techniques. >> that he [snorts] could heighten the. contradictions. >> Yes. with the cameras on and he made. sure the cameras was on so that you saw. them getting beaten down and hosed and.

bricked and hit with bats and you saw. them not responding with violence so. that you had absolutely no question. about who was the perpetrator. >> Yeah. You couldn't edit it and get a. snapshot. >> No, you just you it was it was crystal. clear who was in the wrong and Martin. Luther King made sure of that. And I. think a lot of my life I felt like, oh, I must choose between Martin Luther King. and Malcolm X and I'm more Malcolm X. because I'mma punch the white. [ __ ] back in the face, you. know? Um,

>> but like really though, Martin Luther. King's his methodology, it took so much. strength. Like it it arguably takes more. [ __ ] strength to exercise restraint. in the face of violence than to respond. with violence. Not that that's the only. strategy, you know, I think those things. have to exist concurrently. But. >> yeah, learning more about Martin Luther, that's why I love that you used him in. your newest uh use some of those stories. in your newest special because.

>> his legacy has been um. >> Oh, it's been flattened. >> Manipulated and flattened like you said. into like some [ __ ] Disney Channel. [ __ ] Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And but really he was he was super. revolutionary. What's interesting as. well is how much they moved towards each. other. You know, Malcolm X is always. framed as this like burn it all down. person. MLK is always framed as like. Kumbaya, let's all hug all the time. And. if you look at their writings and what. they what they shared towards the end of. their lives, >> they sort of gravitated towards the.

other. Malcolm X was going, "Hey, maybe. we should speak more and maybe we should. be a little softer." And MLK was MLK was. like, "No, maybe maybe we should, you. know, protest. Maybe we should riot a. little bit more. Maybe we should. It It. is interesting how we find that that. middle. And it makes me wonder with you. like. >> let's talk, you know, you've got old Vic. Manser where or or rather. >> alternate universe Vicman. >> No, let's talk about the like the Vicman. people couldn't have like known because.

social media wasn't what it was, right? >> Who's this guy? Oh, he hip-hop artist, but he's also he wants to fight all the. time. He's angry. Whatever. Now we see. you like in your videos. You're. laughing. You're peeling that orange. By. the way, how do you peel them? So, efficient like what what type of oranges. that I want to know. >> Hey, >> no, no, no. Not No, no, no. I mean. [laughter] this. I mean this. Can I see. your hands? Can I just see your hands? >> These hands have peeled infinite. [laughter] oranges. >> No, no, no. I like I I genuinely want to. know like how.

>> how do you start the peeling? Because. usually I bite. >> Do you do you peel? >> I bite the top and then I'm like, >> "Let me tell you something." Then I go. in because my thumbs I don't I don't. trust my thumb. YOU MAKE IT SEEM LIKE. IT'S the easiest thing ever man. Have. you ever saw you start an orange? YOU. START [laughter] LIKE YOU I'VE NEVER. SEEN A video where you go in and you're. like yo let's talk about the subjugation. of people. >> You just could end up two halves. Yeah. So how do you first how do you. penetrate? >> I control. Whoa. [laughter].

>> Whoa. You're definitely not from. watching [laughter]. watching this on YouTube, you'll see my. hand. >> Take [laughter] it easy. I got you. I got you. >> No, but for real, how do you like. >> I can tr [snorts]. it? >> Those are the two questions. Okay. [laughter]. Secondly, how many oranges are on this. tree? >> Infinite. It blooms year round.

>> These are the the biggest things that. have plagued me about this series. And. I'm the psycho for for biting the first. >> No, I don't think you I don't think. you're crazy at all. Sometimes sometimes. an orange needs to be. >> Yeah. Then to just to open up the. >> No, no, he's right. The gateway. He's. right. I want I want to see your. >> You know where it is. Sorry. Just a a. thing is you know when you have a. >> It used to happen with beer drinkers a. lot, but when they have a bottle of beer. >> and then they can't open it, >> then they go with their teeth. >> Yes. It's like what do you Cuz some. people are like no I have to find a.

bottle opener. >> Yes. You know that's so if you. >> roll the [ __ ] first then it gets. softer. Somebody told me that cuz they. saw me struggling to open them and they. was like yo you need to roll it. >> Okay. So someone had Okay. >> Yeah. But the structural integrity. [clears throat] of the original goes. away with it. >> It does become it does. Yeah. But what I. this is all I was searching for. >> I wanted to know if we've met you as a. masterful orange peel like peeler. >> Yeah. >> Or if you have developed into this man. Now you've answered my question.

>> Yeah. Yeah, once I had the tree, then I. started to learn more about oranges. >> Okay. >> What did you learn about oranges, actually? >> Well, just how to peel them, like how to. roll it. I don't know that the the. science of this tree. I don't know why. this tree blooms year round. >> I I genuinely so. >> I have no clue why. >> I wish I had a more witty answer. >> What made you do it the first time? [snorts]. >> I was talking about So, you know, I was. talking about South Africa low key. It. was like right around the time I was.

talking about South Africa near when the. South African um the white the white. genocide. >> Oh yes. Yes. Yes. >> Uh was taking place and um I had a. friend come over to like film something. with me in my studio and uh and I just. had that idea. It was it was no like. serendipitous moment but it was right. around the time when I was talking. talking about the uh white genocide or. something. didn't have that feel of like. or at least me if you'd asked me how you. got to it would have been like whatever.

was in that backyard was going down. So. if you had like chickens there, he was. gonna like kill a chicken while I. >> had chickens and I was just like, you. know, I am a voodoo man. >> My grandfather was voodoo ceremony. So. [laughter]. it would have been a different vibe out. of the real Aelia Banks. >> I pulled a goddamn chicken. I said, you. know what about racism? [laughter]. >> It's like a It's like a chicken's neck. You got to rip it. I mean, all of these. things are You're lucky the tree blooms.

all year round. Now you'd be like, "Vic, we need a video. It's out of season, man. You got to wait for the next. [laughter]. >> just every everything that came. together. I um. >> uh where do we find you now in the. journey? Like where you where you going. next? What are you what are you up to? What are you Cuz now again to go back to. how people perceive someone. I think. there are a lot of people. >> who like see you as that guy now. >> Mhm. >> And and I've I've just learned to accept. this. You know, we we've spoken about. this is like. >> people meet you where they meet you, >> right? >> And they'll just like know you as they.

know you. Yeah. >> So, you'll be the orange guy who. [clears throat] says the news and then. my favorite thing will be like how. people describe it when they see you. They'll be like, "Oh man, the the orange. news guy." Oh, he's the he's the you. know, I've heard everything for myself. The my favorite one was they said he's. that he he's that what do they say? He's. that British news [ __ ] from South. Africa. >> Whoever he may be. [laughter]. >> But when they said that, I was like. that's the greatest description. >> British. >> Yeah. They said they said the British. news [ __ ] from South Africa. Then I.

went, you said British, BUT YOU SAID. SOUTH AFRICA. >> So I. >> I love that. >> I'll take it. Yeah. So I I see it the. same way, man. You know what I'm saying? Like having. >> um done and continuing to do many. things. I'll find that people. >> people might find me in an album cycle. They'd be like, you know, this music, I. love this. People might find me while. I'm acting on a TV show and be like, oh, >> I like that TV show. You know, people. might find me while I'm doing this and. be like, "Man, what's up with them.

oranges? Do they really grow a tree?". Uh, >> that was me. He just impersonated me. God damn it. >> No, that was the [ __ ] uh that was the. flight attendant on the way here. [laughter]. >> was asking about the. >> Yeah. Yeah. He was like, "Are they he. was like, "Are they are you going to run. out. on. >> I'm not the only one. >> The five Trevor's water either.". >> You said what? >> That was Trevor's water. >> It's was my biggest worry. >> In fact, that's when I buy oranges. It. does not. It does not seem like a. sustainable. I was just like, man, I was. worried about. >> because you're from South Africa. That's. why. Because in South Africa, we only.

get oranges in winter. >> Yeah. I was just like, it's an orange. tree. You can't just have oranges. >> Blooms year round. >> You You have been gifted, my friend. You've been blessed. [clears throat]. >> I'm I'm working on developing it into a. show. I'm working on like um. >> also like some scripted TV stuff and. finishing my album right now. So, a lot. of different things coming. Is your is. your album. an opportunity to depart from what. you're speaking about or does the album. give you an opportunity to incorporate. what you're speaking about? How how do.

you think about that as an artist? >> It's a bit of a departure. I mean, it's. an album that I already had. You know. what I mean? Like I was making this. album and had so much of it before I. started doing the Orange Tree thing. I. honestly started doing that because I. didn't have the funding to put the album. out the way I wanted to put it out. Oh, damn. >> I didn't have the distribution. I didn't. have a label. And so I was like, what. can I do in the meantime, in between. time, right? >> You know, to to connect to people, you. know what I mean, and to express myself. and uh and and I landed there. But in a.

lot of ways, it's like it's about. family. It's about me coming into. fatherhood. Um there's a lot of African. sounds. manifested in my own way. So it's not. like an overt overtly political. >> album. It's got moments like that, but. that's not the that's not the heart of. it, you know? The it's called Mansam. Musmensa. So, it's it's about my son. Beautiful, man. >> Like at its root, you know what I'm. saying? But I also uh I did this short. film that's like.

>> marrying the uh the orange tree [ __ ] to. the narrative scripted thing I was. talking about. >> And uh so that's coming out soon. We get. off here. I want to show you guys. because I make some. >> I talk about some things that I think. will will relate to you. >> Nice. >> Yo, man. This has been everything and. more. >> Yeah, I appreciate you guys. >> No, man. I genuinely can I tell you I I. let's say if I if I separate like the. human side of it and the you know the. things you're doing, >> he'll tell you this is like how I am in.

the world about the internet in. particular. I just I I spend an inordinate amount of. time worrying that the internet, social. media/ whatever we want to call it gave. birth to something that was beautiful in. that it it it democratized a platform. It democratized, you know, opinions. It. it really it diffused the power that was. once contained by a few. >> But I think if we're not careful, it can. also incentivize everyone to become a.

few, you know. So everyone's cooking. channels look the same. Everyone farms. outrage the same. Everyone tries to find. craziness the same. Everyone and. genuinely what I love about what you do. is you haven't reduced yourself to a. caricature. >> You you you just you don't seem to be. trying to pour fuel on any fire. Like. one of my favorite moments was when you. went back in to speak about Iran and how. people had like misinterpreted you like. no no guys let me try and articulate.

this for you even more clearly. And I. was like, that there is the antithesis. of what like the internet is. experiencing right now. You didn't. double down. >> You cut back and you elaborated. And I. was like, this is the most beautiful. thing because it it it opens up space. and conversation. So I I just want to. say to you as as a human being living. through this, I go like, man, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for doing that. >> I appreciate that a lot. Yeah. The Iran. I mean uh yeah, the Iran situation, too. It was like. I felt like I learned.

more information talking to people that. I respected once I had already spoken. and I tried to make a decision that I. think is important for me just as a. human being to be like I'm willing to. adjust my perspective. >> See this is what I'm talking about. >> as new information comes in that gives. me more context and I have more. understanding. You know what I mean? like I have to be I think so often it's. easy to be rigid and be like well I. already said what I said and so it is.

what it is you know uh but that wouldn't. be honest you know what I mean I think. at the end of the day I'm I'm trying to. be I'm trying to be real honest. authentic and when I learn new. information I I want to be able to. adjust. >> yeah but even even those we hold in the. highest esteem I don't think. I don't think do that in in in the most. honorable way. So, I look at newspapers, the amount of times they print a. retraction in the tiniest corner of the.

newspaper. I go, >> I'm not saying, you know, put it on the. front page, but put it where the. original story was at least. >> just instill in people the idea that you. can make a mistake publicly and go like, "Oh, yeah. Did I Yeah, I actually didn't. know at the time and I didn't think cuz. it's not always malicious." That's the. main thing is it's not always malicious. And what I found interesting was you. didn't put it in the comments. You. didn't put it below. I watched a video. the other day of it was like a super.

viral video where someone was talking. about Justin Bieber performing at. Coachella and they were saying, "Do you. know the real reason Justin Bieber. played all of his music off of a laptop. is because he sold his rights." So he. sold all of his publishing and his. rights and he can't perform them. So. this was a genius movie. Plays the. YouTube video and then Justin Bieber is. able to have his songs but he can't. perform them. he's legally not allowed. to per and then it was like no that. that's not the thing. Coachella pays a. license fee. Anyone can sing any song. That thing's covered. He was doing. something artistic. And then when people.

corrected this viral video, they then in. the comments just put a little they left. the video up. But then they said, I I. should have included the fact that this. doesn't actually apply to Justin because. you can perform what you want. But. still, it's an interesting thing to. think about, isn't it? >> I was like, what are you doing? >> What are you doing? like you are so. obsessed with the the view count. >> that you're willing to throw away. everything else. And what I found. impressive was you made a video as. prominent. You got an orange. You came. out. You did the It's not like you were.

like, "All right, I me clarifying this. doesn't deserve this. It wasn't like now. VicMens is in his bedroom like, "Hey. guys, so I put out this video a while. ago and I just want to say I'm sorry.". >> Exactly. Same orange, same tree, >> same vest. And he came out and he's. like, "Yo, here, let me say this. Let me elaborate. Let me tell you what I've learned. Let. me that." To me, I'm I genuinely mean I. went like, "Ah, it inspired me. I. appreciate it." And I was like, "That's. what we we all need more of in this. amorphous place called the internet is.

seeing people change and evolve.". >> Appreciate that. >> in front of us. >> That's incredible, man. And you. shouldn't leave yourself out of it cuz a. lot of people. don't do this to me. Don't change your. eyes when you talk to me like that. I. see what you're doing. Change your eyes. What if I retract my upper lip. [laughter]. >> now? Carry [snorts] on. >> Okay. Yeah. So, a lot of people when confronted by their. friend about calling them and the phone. ringing a certain way at a certain time, >> his eyes.

>> A lot of people would say, you know, that's how network works and that's how. cuz Wi-Fi, we're in the same place. A. lot of people will never actually take. the phone and dial their friend and put. on speaker and hear how many rings they. are and have the same said friend on the. side acknowledging. Can I tell you. >> this is a blatant lie that you. [laughter]. >> can I tell you? >> You know what we're going to do through. immediately. [laughter]. >> You know what? I will say sometimes. sometimes I do that though. Sometimes I.

try to call a [ __ ] at a time and. I'm like, man, I just call this [ __ ]. WITH TWO RINGS [laughter]. SO I can. >> We're going to we're going to hang on. MY PHONE'S ON SILENT. >> NO, NO, NO. WHOA, WHOA. OH, I want to. set Yo, can you hear me? >> No. >> Yo, so we we're having a discussion here. and I'm not going to lead you in any. direction. There's we're having a. discussion about that the the amount of. rings people hear or see on WhatsApp. versus how many the caller initiates.

What is the discussion we've been having. about this? I'm here with like Kibuka. and Eugene. >> The amount of rings that people see. versus oh, as if if when I think you've. called me and then you've given up. straight away, but you might have gone. 10 you might have gone 10 deep. Is that. what you're saying? >> Yes. Yes. That is exactly what I'm. saying. Cuz now Kibuka does not believe. >> No, I didn't say I don't believe. >> WAIT. YOU SAID DON'T LIE. YOU Kibuka. doesn't believe that I called him and. waited like a like a [ __ ] long amount of.

time. He says he got like two rings on. his side. >> I don't believe. >> Yeah, that I don't believe that too. >> It can't be trusted. But also, are you. are you counting ones in are you. carrying them in the calling phase or in. the. >> No, no, no, no. I was counting in the. ringing phase. >> Okay. Yeah, cuz he he understands that. differentiation as well. >> Yeah, but Dave Dave has no interest in. this whatsoever. Also, [laughter] also. >> David is just here blatantly saying I'm. a liar who did not want to call him. >> L you know what made the matter worse.

>> Yes. Say the thing was then over here. [laughter]. >> after the after the ringing and the. hanging up. Dave called back. immediately. >> Immediately. >> And the suspect did not answer the phone. because I was on a bike riding back from. pickle so quickly. >> That's funny. [laughter]. >> Who speaks on their phone WHILE RIDING A. BIKE? There's only one person on this. call and I'm not that person. [laughter]. >> I would be suspicious about uh Trevor. and anything phone related. >> There we go. Dunkey,

>> I'm hanging up now. [laughter]. >> This has been great, man. >> Hey, appreciate you guys, man. What's. up, man? Appreciate y'all, bro. >> Philly, >> you know how we do, >> man. This is the worst thing you could. have left. >> I'm a [ __ ]. >> Fully Philly Eugene. >> I'm a [ __ ]. >> Okay. [laughter] I'M A [ __ ]. >> [laughter]. >> OH MAN, THIS WAS DOPE. THANK YOU. CRAZY. >> Oh man, this was so good. >> Thank you so much for watching the.

episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friends still. Let. them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, [music] maybe there's ideas that you. have, you can chat to us. We will read. through the comments and we'll get into. it. Either way, I appreciate you taking. the time. Thank you for hanging out with. us on What Now. And remember, we [music]. do this for you, so we would like to. hear from you. Till next time, thank. you.