Trevor Noah Calls Out FIFA After World Cup Controversy | What Now? WORLD CUP Bonus Episode

This episode is brought to you by. Verizon. As an official sponsor of the. FIFA World Cup 2026, Verizon is bringing. once-in-a-lifetime experiences to their. customers. Free tickets to matches, pitchside access during gameplay, and. meet and greets with soccer legends. If. you're not with Verizon, no sweat. Stop. by a Verizon store to get in on the. action and learn about their offers for. new customers. No one gets you closer to. the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon.

This is What Now with Trevor Noah. >> Well, welcome to it. [laughter]. >> The final week of the World Cup. >> and what feels like the final week of. our lives. I I would I I have to say. this is. >> probably my least favorite part of the. World Cup. >> It's my Yeah. You know when you're. turning towards the end I already. >> I don't know whether you're feeling the. same thing but. >> I'm having the blues like you know when. you go on vacation and then it's about. to end like two days away and you're.

like ah now I have to go back to my. normal. >> work day I have to go back to the. plantation. >> it's just like a it's just like fading. away from from all the joy fading away. I almost wish they had a um. >> like a comedown routine from the World. Cup. They should have the World Cup. [clears throat]. >> and then what they should do is they. should replay or reinvent some of the. matches that we didn't get to see just. to let us, you know what I mean? >> You don't want to quit cold. >> Yeah, >> but for the World [laughter] Cup. >> I mean I mean when you put it that way.

Yeah, I'll accept it cuz I am addicted. But yeah, like I wish I wish they just. had like a you know, let's let's have a. few other games. Could we see Brazil. versus Spain maybe? >> Oh. Oh, okay. The ones we didn't see. >> Could we see Argentina versus. >> But still. >> Yeah. Just like just like you know you. know for for fun for fun they can play. for Halan's raccoon. >> No I'll tell you one thing that Monday. next Monday is going to be rough. >> Yeah it will be man. >> next Monday is going to be rough cuz. you're going to be looking back like oh. my god there are people who are going. like we can't wait for next Monday. There are probably spouses who are like.

we can't wait for next family members. everyone in the house who didn't have. access to the TV. >> Yes. >> is now exciting. have access to their. own family member who is addicted, who. has been thinking Harland, Messi, Kane, Mbappe. Now they can finally give the. kids attention. They can finally Yeah. >> I mean, this is why um this is why. Infantino is proposing 64 expanding the. World Cup. I feel like I feel like. Infantino his end goal. >> his end goal is to expand the World Cup.

to the point where it's just the whole. year. No, I think to expand it to the. point where it's the World Cup where. everyone is playing. Yes. Like literally. because he he knows and I think I told. you this before. >> Infant is both you could say corrupt and. evil in a very cartoonish way. Like in a. very Doctor evil kind of way, but he. knows he has in a chokeold. He knows. once the ball is kicked like you can. complain and once the ball is kicked. >> Yeah. But I think to call him a villain. is too is to simplify it too much. I.

don't think Infantino is a villain. I. think he's just in charge of a thing. that we love more than anything. >> Yes. >> And just like any organization, especially like a multinational. organization, there's elements of it. that we'll disagree with. >> Okay. >> But who of us can deny the expanded. format was better for the fans, was. better for the World Cup, and was better. for the world. >> I'll give it up to him. We'll give it. up. The reason I call him a villain is. because he's using this thing that we. love like Dr. Evil. He's using it to. achieve his dreams of global domination.

That's [laughter] what is doing. And the. thing is every once in a while he gets. proven right. Like you can't argue. We. we complain bitterly about expansion. Remember Africans maybe not as much. Maybe the smaller nations not as much. cuz we're like oh this is our chance to. actually get in but the bigger countries. really wind and then look what happened. >> He has been proven right again. Ifino. has gone and done it again. If it's if. it's expanded to 64 nations, I think it. would be um there would be no third.

place. It would just be we just go. straight into knockout. >> It would be more efficient actually, but. they would just like be. >> more money. That's what But that's the. thing. That's why that's why I'm calling. him evil and cartoonish. >> Okay. But isn't this isn't this Okay, but wait, let's let's let's let's talk. about this for a second. >> Isn't this what we always argue about? Let's take it out of football, right? The thing we'll often argue about in. society is we'll say we want to try and. make things more accessible. We're like, you know, why aren't there more grocery.

stores in poor neighborhoods and why. don't we give poor children access and. blah blah blah. Now, right, this is the. thing that we that we say. >> No, something just come in my mind. Go. on. No, cuz when you talked about uh. more access to food in poor. neighborhoods, I started thinking of. Uganda and Kenya and Tanzania and I'm. like, "Oh my god, these are like food. deserts but football. >> These are football games. That's yes and. in like I'm trying to bring people to. the. >> and what we what we'll always argue in. societies will say we've got to bring it. now a lot of people will say that's. charity that's come on let them but.

>> economists who often step into the frey. will say the same thing. >> we are neglecting x amount of dollars or. euros or whatever currency you want to. use. >> they'll always say. >> by neglecting these markets. >> yes. >> by underserving them by not providing. them the services they need by not. making sure that they have trees and. parks and all that. They will show you a. dollar amount that you're losing. >> I like how you've taken it completely. out of football. >> But think about it. They'll show you a. dollar amount. So, they'll show you how. much uh money traffic is costing you.

They'll show you how much money bad. healthcare is costing you. They'll show. you how much money not having maternity. leave is costing you. They'll show Do. you get what I'm saying? >> No, I hear you. >> So, if you can if you can boil access, >> equitable access down to money as well, >> the upside there should be an upside. Like and don't get me wrong, I know I'm. playing devil's advocate here, but I go, shouldn't the reward. >> for including. >> And you know, when you say devil's. advocate, you're literally playing. devil's advocate with infantino because.

>> No, but yes, but think about it. Shouldn't Shouldn't there be a reward. for inclusion? >> Inclusivity. No, there should be. And. the thing is, and again, I hate being on. your side and I hate being on. Infantino's side, but people said the. World Cup would be diluted. Join us with. all you embrace the dark side. >> Embrace the dark side. Accept the hat. No, [laughter] here's the thing. People. complained and I was among them. But. because I'm come from a small country, I. also saw where Infantino was, how it.

would benefit me. But people complained. about how this would dilute the World. Cup, how this would devalue the greatest. tournament in our football. And look, the smallest teams gave us the greatest. games. >> Yeah. The greatest story as well. kept. like Kuras scoring that goal against. Germany. It gave us they give us the. moments that make you fall back in love. with football. The romance of it all. Yes. >> The only the only thing I might disagree. with I look I don't know how I feel. about it yet. >> because I'm I'm you know recency bias is. is is obviously uh in effect right now.

>> A lot of people have been confused as to. why Argentina had a quote unquote easy. run. A lot [clears throat] of people. have confused as to like why England had. a quote unquote easier run, France, etc. They're going like ah but how are these. teams meeting? >> So a lot of people don't remember that. FIFA changed the way they created their. draw for this World Cup. They seated. them the way we seen tennis. Yes. >> And so what they said was we're going to.

change the format. And so for this World. Cup, for World Cup 2026, the top seeds. cannot the top four seeds cannot meet. each other before the semi-final. Now, they could get knocked out. >> Yes. Yes. Obviously, >> you know what I mean? They could get. knocked out like Norway could have. knocked out England. Uh. >> Egypt could have knocked out. >> Egypt could have knocked out Argentina, etc., etc. So, it's it's not about. making sure they get to the semi-final, but the their goal was that the top four. seeds wouldn't meet before the. semi-final. Now on one hand some people.

can argue what it's done is it's created. a world cup where the big teams bump. into the small teams more frequently. which creates better games for small. team for the small teams. >> Yeah. As you've seen like the team from. Cape Verde all said this was our dream. We never we never imagined against me. Yes. >> Right. >> On the other hand people say it's. insured their path to the final because. they don't have to eliminate each other. I think both arguments have merits, >> you know, [clears throat] because. >> I like how you are literally like the.

evil angel on Infantino one shoulder and. then you're the good angel on the other. shoulder. You're like giving him props, but you're also going both both things. are true. >> No, I'll say this uh cuz in tennis and. again I know people struggle with the. seeding system. So in tennis. and sena. >> will either meet in the final or they. won't meet at all. That's how they make. it. They go like the top two seeds don't. get to meet till the final. >> because [laughter]. it will spoil the game. >> No, no, it's they're trying to go like. if they if everything happens the way.

it's if if in our dream scenario the top. the final should be the top two. But. then remember the top two have to meet. the top three and top four. So they have. to meet they go meet like slightly. stronger opposition as they go on and. that's how it should be. And so for me, I understand people because people will. go like, "Oh, but Spain topped their. group, but then they end up facing.". >> FIFA is not rewarding you for just last. year's performance. It's rewarding you. for over 5 years of performance. That's. how we see them. So Argentina has almost. won every competition they have been in.

two cup Americas, the World Cup. They're. the top seed in South America. >> They shouldn't be meeting France at any. point. France has been playing so well. in Europe for the past 5 years. They. shouldn't be meeting Argentina. So, you're being rewarded. >> Yeah. >> for the good work you've put in over a. considerable number of years. And for. me, I'm all for it. >> But don't don't you think it robs. >> us as the fans maybe. >> and it robs the smaller teams of the. opportunity to pull a Croatia in the. semi-final to pull a um who else?

Morocco in the semi-final. No, it. doesn't. To pull a you know what I mean? No, it doesn't. You don't think it does? No. Because for me, if the small teams. overperform and one or two of the big. teams underperform, then the top seeds. will meet somewhere. Does that make. sense? They will meet. So for me, the. way I look at it, cuz you're talking. about the top four, but remember. England, Brazil, Portugal, those teams. will meet at some point. They're not the. top person, but they're top heavyweight. I hear what you're saying. So Argentina, I don't even think they needed this. because Argentina in 2018. Remember,

>> they messed up and they lost their game. against Croatia. >> And what was their reward? instead of. taking the easier path that Croatia. ended up taking. They end up meeting. France in the next round and Mbappe. knocked them out. So for me it works for. me. I like the seeding. It works in. basketball. The number the top seed in. basketball in the playoffs meets number. eight. >> The Golden State Warriors are not going. to meet the Lakers game. >> I guess I guess it also sets up the idea. behind it is and and I think we forget. this sometimes. The idea is also that we.

don't end up with a lopsided end of a. tournament. Thank you. Yes. You know. Kurasal is playing Cape Va in the. finals. You don't not even Kurissau. Kurissa Cape V would actually be a great. game. I think you you actually what they. don't want is it to be Kurissau versus. Germany somehow versus France. >> versus Yes. when everyone comes in going. like oh this is yes. >> Yeah. You know where that where that. final game. >> doesn't see like people go you know we. always say this even in football we be. like that was the real final. >> Yes. Yes. The final before the final. >> It was the final before the final. >> You don't want you don't want that in.

the round of 16. the big teams in the. Champions League will meet in the. quarters or the semis. >> and then on the other side there's like. a random team that's coming in from you. know yeah exactly. >> good for them. >> but I would argue on a business side. people are less inclined to watch. because everyone expects one team to win. and if they don't people are just like. ah what happened. >> people hate to admit it okay not sports. fans cuz we are very we tend to be very. realistic people want George Foreman. Muhammad Ali. >> yeah that's heavyweights just throwing.

haymakers at each other. They don't want. like. >> George Foreman just versus Jo and then. Jo is knocked out in the first fight. >> How long do you think you could last? >> I think I would last uh 5 seconds by. running around the ring, running as fast. as possible and then I would last a bit. longer if I just ran out of the ring and. then out of the stadium and then just. contined on my way home back [laughter]. home to Uganda. >> Um let's talk about some of the big. games that we saw leading up to this. Um, England, Norway,

uh, your your you know, I I can I tell. you why I feel bad for you? >> Mhm. >> You predicted Norway would win. >> to one. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And. I sometimes think predictions. can be undone by random acts of God. >> Yes, you're right. >> Do you know what I mean? >> I was on a good run as well, by the way. >> You were on a good run just predicting. score lines, brother. 2-1. You're on a good run. >> Yeah. Just going on Brazil, Norway 2-1.

>> Yeah. England, Norway. So, um, >> Morocco, France 2. I was on a good run. and the the cable happened. >> Yeah. The Well, okay. No, but let's talk. about this. Okay. So, let's break the. game down. There are a few story lines. from the England Norway game that I. think have still got people talking. One. is the the cable. >> Yes. >> The, you know, the Yeah. The mysterious. cable that did or did not happen. >> You called it the cable of God. >> I called it the cable of God. That's. what it is, you know. Um, we've got the. uh Halan Sol incident. >> I think those are like the big ones in.

the game. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Um, and then. >> my first instinct I'll say. >> I don't think the penalty call was like. a. >> No, no, no. That was. >> Can you think of any other There weren't. any issues. >> I think the only other thing we could. talk about was Norland who was. incredible in their game against Brazil. actually not pushing that ball away and. gifting uh Bellingham an easy winning. go. >> Oh yeah, but that's a tactical thing. So, okay, let's start. Let's let's let's. do it in sequence then. Let's start by. first talking about uh the the the saw. off incident because that's the you see.

this is so this is the thing that I that. I I wish more fans would be honest about. right. >> more fans would be honest about. >> when it's Egypt Argentina. >> right. >> it's easier to blame the refs for the. result. >> and in my opinion the refs made many. decisions that I think could have gone. another way on another day against. Argentina Ina, I think. No, just like. just like yellow cards and like harsher. penalty. No, no, no. There were a few.

No, no. That's my opinion. As I'm. saying, you can disagree. >> Mhm. I can't I can't think of a single. decision that they can't. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, we want to really get. that. We don't have to litigate. But I'm. saying it's easier for fans, >> but I'm saying it's easier for fans to. focus on those things. >> than it is for them. >> to focus on the moment where they failed. to take a game. Okay. So for me, Egypt. Argentina, it's the moment when Egypt. gets the ball. The score is 2-2. >> I think it's the 90th minute.

>> In addition, >> the ball gets passed to Salah. >> and very quickly it becomes three versus. two or even four versus two. >> and then Mamush out of nowhere comes. running from behind Salah. >> Yes. >> And takes the ball off of his feet. And Salah, by the way, had led two. incredible breakaways. Yes. And Salah, >> which had ended in goals. One of them. Salah's also these the guys got the. record for goals and assists in one.

season in the Premier League. You've. seen what he can do assistwise already. in this game. >> He takes the ball off of Salah's feet. Also compresses the field. And what I. mean by that is, >> you know, you know this when you're. playing football. When you when you're. on a counterattack, the best thing you. can do is spread out your players. >> because now you the the the team Yeah. the team with inferior players. >> have to think about who they're going to. cover. >> Now what's happening is the attack is. compressed because Mamush is literally. on Salah. So one defender can mark both.

men. He takes the ball. I think it was. Pedes who was who was running back. >> on Argentina. >> Incredible block by Paredes as well. >> I don't think it's made easy. No made it. easy. >> I don't think it's an incredible block. I think it's a bad pass and I think it's. a pass from a player who doesn't pass. regularly and I go why would you take. the ball from Salah? He could have. curved his run. He could have made. created another outlet and I'm telling. you Salah would have found him. So for. me. >> I focus on that moment. I go that's for. me that's you know why? Because fans.

often go backwards in time as if. um as if calls are cumulative but. they're not. >> How do you then compare that? How do you. compare that with Sol? No. So listen, do. you get what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I get the mush. >> No, no, but what I'm saying fans will do. in football often times they'll go, >> if we were awarded that penalty, >> then [clears throat] the score would. have been 4-0. Then I'm like, no, that. but that's not how games work. >> So Egypt was up 1 nil, >> right? They go 2-0 up, [snorts].

>> the the goal gets taken away, >> then they still come back immediately. and score. Now it's 2-0. Now some would. go then it would be 3-0. That's not how. games actually work, right? It's like. it's a linear timeline. It's a butterfly. effect. One thing completely changes how. he. >> is. So, so it's a linear thing, right? So, now when we come to the England. Norway game, I know a lot of fans would. love to look at the cable incident. >> as the incident that robs Norway of. their opportunity to go through to the. semi-finals. >> But for me, the the moment where Norway. loses their game. >> is the moment where Sol is on a break.

>> with Erling Harland, 2v1. And like. >> stones. Yes. >> And and we've got to be clear about what. kind of 2v1. There's a 2v one where you. have like men right behind you, someone. on your shoulder pushing you, pushing. you and no. Then there's a 2v1 where you. are unencumbered, >> completely free to look up, to play the. game, to make decisions, >> defend is backpedaling, furiously, >> backpedaling. Yeah. J Stones, who's not. the fastest defender. >> Mhm. And Sol. not only like stumbles and doesn't look.

up and doesn't pass to Harland, he also. just doesn't make a decision himself. >> Like it's one of the strangest moments. I've ever seen. >> He took his sweet time as well. >> And everyone has a different opinion. Some people go, "It's because he's. jealous of Harland." You know, they've. played clips of him saying, "I've got. more experience than him." Whatever. People are people are saying like, "Oh, that's why you shouldn't have a striker. up top because a striker doesn't look up. because they think they are the person. who has to finish it." Some people are. saying yes. >> Yeah. People have all Look, the bottom.

line is for me. >> when that happened, >> in the same way. >> you called it out. I remember Yeah. In. the same way, in the same way when Bruno. Grimmer doesn't score his goal. >> and misses the one. >> And the same when Hendrick misses. I. blame those moments for the losing. I. would say the funny thing about that. moment is we watched it and you cuz Sol. got murdered online obviously and he got. murdered in the press but the thing is. you immediately went like this is why. you don't you went like he has no. vision. >> I I he didn't even know that the.

[clears throat] pass was on the pass is. rarely on for he's not at the receiving. end of the pass. >> I don't get the coach's decision. >> I don't understand why he's playing. soloth there. >> and not Oscar Bob. The worst thing is it. went from potentially 2-0. >> Yeah, that's my point though. >> Going into halftime to 1-1 and that. completely changes the tactical talk as. a coach that you're going to give to. your players. >> It also changes the tactics of the team, >> right? If we're up 1 nil, we're in a. skittish back and forth.

>> It's a skirmish, but like it's. [clears throat] not comfortable because. at any moment you can get back and. you're in the game. When we're 2-0 up, we can sit back differently. We can. counterattack differently. and you have. more pressure on you as the opposing. team because. >> you need to look for goals. >> You need to look for two goals, not one. goal. >> You know what I mean? So, so, so that. that pressure creates something and then. the goal comes from a moment that I'm. like, it's funny. I So, you must see I. have so many English friends. >> who have completely blown up my phone,

hating me. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Yeah. What a what a bad take, Trevor. There was no ball that hit a. cable. See, that's why I can talk that's. why I can talk trash about England. I. have no English friends. [laughter]. So, no, you are very vocal though about. it. You are very vocal. I'm I'm I'm very. interested in why cuz you pointed it out. even during the broadcast after the live. stream. Uh I'm interested to hear what. you really think should and could have. happened. cuz the Norwegian players went and told.

the ref. So, what do you think could. have cuz he didn't he didn't stop the. game and the goal went in. So, what do. you think would have happened? Because. normally you stop the game when the ball. hits an external object. >> Yeah. And and it's happened before by. the way. This is not the first time a. ball has hit the sky cam or the cables. >> Okay. So it's happened before. You just. stopped the game. [clears throat]. >> Okay. So no but they didn't stop it till. and the Norwegian rather the coach and. shoulder up ran up to him. Do you think. they still recall? >> No. But but this is too late. Okay. But.

this is what I don't understand. All. right. So there's a few things. FIFA. comes out and says the sensor in the. bull was not triggered. >> Yes. Okay, now I'm going like guys, okay, >> that sense has been having a moment. >> Yo, man, [laughter]. >> here's the most important thing for me. >> Why are we bringing a new technology to. a World Cup? >> If you look at every other technology, right? If you look at every other. technology in football, >> when we're triing a new rule or a new. technology, they trial that for four. years in other leagues,

>> smaller competition, >> smaller competition, 20ies, women's. Yes, you're right. >> Exactly. They go, "Let's take this to. the low stakes, lowlevel tournaments. before we get to the highest levels of. the men's and women's games.". >> Before that, >> let's try it in like under 16s, under. 20s. They try new offside rules. They. try new um like V. They tested V for a. long time in different leagues, in. different ways, in different subsections. of of a league. By the way, they'd say. like, "Okay, for this competition, we're. going to be using V, but we won't expand.

it fully. >> in different formats as well." Foot. >> Exactly. Exactly. So my thing is why oh. why are we bringing a new chip that I. don't know of being used in any major. league? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Why are we bringing that to a World Cup. where the stakes are so high and there. are so few games for you to remedy the. situation? That's that's my first issue. >> Okay. I guess my question then would be. again you've said a bowler hit a sky cam. before, right? Yeah. >> But it was still unprecedented at this.

level. the ball hitting a sky like you. know when the Croatian player. >> I think it happened in the Premier. League. >> Yes. But I'm saying at this level at one. cup so when you talk about let's say the. hair follicle you know the Croatian. player did did the ball touch his hair. or not that we can understand. Yeah. So when the ball went up I think. what happened and again I might be wrong. when when Nan kicks that ball high. >> I think the ref. >> naturally didn't track the ball all the. way. >> Yeah. His eyes were focused on the. players jostling for cuz the ball is so.

he didn't see. >> cuz his the refs the ref is the ref's. job is not to look at the ball. The. ref's job is to watch the players. >> Well, even when they're taking corner. kicks, refs are not watching the flight. of the ball. They're watching the. players. So, I see why he missed it. But. then, as you're asking why why didn't V. is supposed to come in for clear and. obvious errors when they come in and if. they come in, how come? Yes. >> They relied apparently on the what do. they call it? Sneak. Sneak. Yes. Okay, Sneo in the ball. >> Mhm.

>> Now, some people are saying there's a. possibility that. >> because the the the pitch has the four. antennas around it for the ball. >> There's a possibility just like. microphones like we're using now or you. know when you're on a TV show, you have. a mic pack. >> Yes. >> There are there are um antennas situated. around every single sound stage. >> and [clears throat] those antennas are. responsible for picking up. So, here. it's a wired mic, so it's not the same, but there's an antenna. And if that mic. mic pack sometimes goes above. >> Oh yes yes yes. >> That's the thing that people forget.

above. >> because when you're in in line with the. thing you find your frequencies are fine. but sometimes when you go above that's. the issue. >> I don't know that they've tested that. technology way up in the air. >> cuz it's unprecedented. >> because the antenna are down on the. ground. >> Yeah cuz everything happens on the. ground mostly unless you're playing. >> cuz remember they do this always in the. air. >> They did it. That's funny. They did it. cuz they did this for V. I mean for for. offside. >> and [clears throat] offside is generally. about a ball kicked on the ground and. where a person is in relation to the. kicking.

>> Okay. Quick question. Do you think if. FIFA had come out and gone like guys our. bad our mistake instead of trying to. gaslight the football loving public? Do. you think that would have been better? >> Yes, I think it would be better. >> instead of going like oh there was no. >> I think it would be better. So I I I. think this. >> but as we said corrupt evil villain No. I think this for everything in life. I. think what's that old saying? The the. cover up is always worse than the crime. >> Worse than the crime. Yes. >> Right. I think it's the same thing that. happened with governments around co. >> if it if governments were more honest. taking this thing out of football too.

many times. >> But but I think that's why I love. football. >> The reason I love football is for me. >> football [clears throat] is the ultimate. you know reflection of life. >> Yes. It's a reflection of life. It's. like how we live it, how we exploit. I I. can learn all my lessons on a football. pitch for life. M. >> and so for me it's the same thing that. happened during co it's the same thing. that happens during major disasters. during an economic crisis whatever. >> the government thinks. >> that they are protecting a system by. obscuring or lying to the people about.

what's actually happening or withholding. right. >> but then what happens is the people then. go there's something I noticed here. >> there's something strange. >> my eyes. >> my eyes are not matching up with the. reality and then the government says to. you no don't worry about that don't. worry about that door and and that thing. builds up steam. Builds up steam builds. up steam and then what happens? At some. point Yeah. >> Yeah. But at some point. >> some some subset of conspiracies are. shown to be true. >> Yes. >> And then and then what happens? You've. now created. >> Yes. You've lost all credibility.

>> For me it's better if FIFA just says, "Hey y'all, >> the sensor didn't go off.". >> But upon further review, we've seen it. does look like the ball touched. The. referee didn't see it. be and in every. game if a referee doesn't see it, if. [clears throat] no one catches it. >> Sorry guys, we play on. >> but that's the thing about. >> because there's many matches where we. can go we Joe we can go back. >> and literally rewatch every micro moment. of Messi for instance uh who are they. playing recently? >> Messi.

>> you're playing which one? kevad Egypt. Egypt I think it was no Switzerland. >> Messi gets a foul by the box. >> no one touched him. >> like or rather it wasn't he didn't get. foul. >> no no no I think it was the player won. the ball yes the player won the ball. >> yeah but Messi gets the foul by the box. >> the player won the ball yes. >> no we could go back and go that wasn't a. foul but but that's not. >> the the point of sport is not to be 100%. accurate it is to be fair. >> yes. >> you get what I'm saying I think even. even when it comes to like marking who.

was holding. whose shirt was being tugged. Yeah. Did Elliot dive? Was [laughter]. Har's push enough? I'll say this, it's I. agree with you in the sense that it was. very Aarian like when you you know when. you talk about 1984, don't believe your. your lying eyes. It was very Aarian in. that way cuz everyone was like, "Oh, but. we can see the ball. unless you're English." Cuz the English. became blind. Many English fans became. like partially blind when it came to. that. >> which I would argue is your job. >> Yes. Yes. No, as a fan it is as a fan.

when the referee makes a decision that's. on your side. >> I mean, that was the right decision. >> Amazing. When the refere Yeah. So, I get. where the English are coming from, but. >> the last thing you want to be as a fan. is Ronaldo putting up their hand with. their own teammates. >> No, no, no. You never want to be. [music]. >> All right, let's take a quick break to. thank our sponsor for today's episode. That's Verizon. Now, we all know the. FIFA World Cup is one of the biggest. events on the planet, right? Everybody.

wants in, which means scoring tickets is. hard. Like, really, really hard. Well, there's good news. Verizon is providing. their customers with unmatched access. They've given away thousands of free. tickets and even given their customers. pitch access during matches. If you're not a Verizon customer, I've. got good news. Right now, more people. than ever can get a better deal at.

Verizon. If you have a bill with AT&T or. T-Mobile, all you got to do is bring it. in. And if you have a bill with Xfinity. or Spectrum, bring that in, too, and. Verizon will give you a better deal. Plus, you could get bucket list. experiences like free tickets to the. FIFA World Cup. must provide a very recent post-paid. consumer mobile bill in the name of the. person redeeming the deal. Additional. terms, conditions, and restrictions. apply. No one gets you closer to the.

FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon. I'll say for me the thing the biggest. talking point from that game and again. it it's for me it's it's jud. it's it's. I love big players who show up in big. hypers I love I'm such a huge love of. the game and when I see so I'll say this. for me when I look at the World Cup. great players always impose their.

personality on a world cup great players. always bend the world cup to where the. greatest players actually don't don't. just grace the World Cup. They don't. just stand up. They decorate the. greatest tournament of the world. >> Yes. 98 Ronaldo 2002. >> You can you can go back you can go back. as you can go back 1934 1930s when let's. say fascist Italy hosted the World Cup. 1934. Obviously Bento tried to hijack. the World Cup. No one remembers Bento. Everyone remembers Joseph Miaza cuz he.

helped Italy win. That's why Milan and. Inter Milan named their stadium after. him. >> No, I didn't know that. >> When you Yeah. Jose, when you go back to. 19 1954, Frank Pushkas and the that. dazzling Hungarian team. That's why the. Pushkas award for the best goal every. football season is named after Frank. Pushkas. 1958. 17year-old Pelle scores two goals in a. final and a legend is born. Every World. Cup 62 Chile horse P gets injured. He's.

the hope for Brazil. Guess who steps up? Who steps up? Garina steps up. Every. World Cup, a great player. Every World. Cup must be defined by a great player. And I don't want to hear any excuses cuz. I don't care. The football world doesn't. care. We don't want to hear, "Oh, I got. double marked and triple marked. All the. opponents were kicking the crap out of. me." No. Great players always find a way. to exploit their god-given gifts to. actually define the greatest tournament. in the world. And if you look at what. Jude has been doing,

>> yeah, >> dragged England, [clears throat] passed. Mexico single-handedly. >> He has. >> played high altitude a few days later. played against Norway. >> Didn't show anything about altitude. sickness again. Imposed his will in. Uganda. We call it we call it, you know, taking your balls out and slapping them. on the table when the pressure is on. >> Damn. >> Yes. >> What's happening in Uganda players? what. is happening in Ugandan boardrooms that. this has become a thing up and goes. that's what great players do Trevor and.

for me that's the one thing when. >> I'd love to be the person taking minutes. at that meeting [laughter]. >> and then he took out his ball. >> ball slap occurred once again [laughter]. >> no think 19 1986. Diego Amando Maradona. >> they said the better for me that's what. I want look at Leon Messi this world cup. look at Messi the world cup before look. at Aaron N and Zined in 1998. >> I want you always remember the Roberto. Baguio 1994. You remember Baguio, you.

remember I want players showing up. And. that's one thing you said you've loved. about this World Cup. At least all the. great. >> feel to be showing up. And so for me, the actually you you love taking things. out of football. Let's take it out of. football. >> Think of cinema. You're not going to be. considered a great on the big screen. unless you have at least one career. performance. Daniel Dele, show me. something. Leo DiCaprio, show me. something. Robert Deniro, Mary Strip,

Alpacino, show me something. There has. to be a performance of yours that. defines your legacy. >> And funny enough, to keep it in cinema, in many ways, that's how we define the. greats is that. >> regardless of what movie they're in, >> Yes. >> to your point, they bend it to their. will. >> Yes. You know what I mean? They they. they take a role or a moment, >> however small, >> however small, [clears throat] and they. go, "Wow.". >> You know, like you're watching it and. you're like, "Man, when they come on. screen, >> Yes. >> you know, that's what I want." And so.

for me, that's why, and I keep saying. this and we disagree on this. You think. Harry Kane is a great striker. I think. he's an okay striker. I think he's a. good striker. I think he's okayish. And. I'm not talking about club. Let Let. >> So I've been I've been actually I've. been thinking about this. I've been. thinking about No, no, no. Here's a way. incredible. >> I've thought of a way for us to bridge. this gap. Maybe maybe there's a there's. a there's an extra definition we need to. think about in football. >> Maybe sometimes we need to define a. player's greatness for their position. >> Mhm.

>> And then sometimes we need to define a. player's greatness for their ability to. be a a um. >> clutch player. >> More than just a clutch player, but. rather like a like an architect. Somebody somebody who can design and. create something. Somebody who can make. things happen. and they're the catalyst. is a good way to put it, right? >> Because. >> I can think of many players, >> you know, like Jude Bellingham, [clears throat]. >> is he the best midfielder? >> No, not even close. >> I don't think he is. >> Pedri Vin Yan Neves. >> Many people will come with many names.

>> But. >> in this World Cup, >> there's no Pedri, there's no Vitinho, there's no Jean. >> He has taken his balls and slapped them. Yeah, but my but my point on the World. Cup table, but I would even argue he has. not done that as a great midfielder. though. >> No, no, no. He has done it in his role. I don't think of him as. >> No, but what I'm saying is he's done it. as a player because if you look at where. Jude Bellingham's been on the pitch, if. you look at how he's gotten his goals, if you all of those moments are agnostic.

to the position he plays, >> that's what that's what I'm saying about. no I'm saying you don't have to do it. >> You when I say defining a World Cup, I'm. saying you do it as a player. So 1982. but listen is a goalkeeper. >> Yeah. >> Is a goalkeeper who defined the 1982. World Cup alongside Ziko and Paulo. Rossi. >> You don't have to. We're saying you have. to stand up as a player. >> No, but but listen to me. This is what. I'm saying. So now do you understand? Come back to what I'm saying. >> I don't think it takes anything away. from Harry Kane's greatness as a.

striker. >> Okay. >> Right. >> But then when we talk like I I try and. do this with my friends all the time. I. do it with celebs when we chat is. sometimes we try and like change our. paradigms for how we think of the game. just so that we open up the possibility. for more than just one one category. You. know, greatest, who's the great? Oh, who's the best of? It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sometimes you can say, >> who is the best defender? >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] what we mean by that. is who is the best player.

>> at defending a ball when the opponents. are attacking and they okay, that's the. best defender. Okay. >> But then you could go. >> when you are down 1 nil. >> Mhm. >> and it is the 90th minute. >> Mhm. >> And you need to get a goal. >> Would you rather have Sergio Ramos. >> or would you rather have Virgil van Djk? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Now I in my world, there is no world. >> where Sergio Ramos is a better defender. than Virgil Van Djk. For me,

>> football fans can disagree. We always. do. >> Mhm. But if you're asking me for a. moment for like for for like that thing, someone who's going to grab the game and. Virgil has had his moments, don't get me. wrong, but I'm talking like the extreme. show up. >> Yes. >> I'm talking the extremes. That player. you're like, where did Sergio Ramos come. from? Where did he how did he do this? How many times has he done this? >> For me, that's that's what I'm talking. about. And that to me does not diminish. another player's positional excellence. in any way. >> Okay, let me counteroint counterpoint.

And I hear where you're coming from. For. me, Harry Kane has disappeared way too. many times in big moments. That's why I. have him on fraud watch. He has. disappeared. I've given him I've given. him leeway so many times and he keeps. disappointing. Hurricane I've given him. so much leeway. >> Here's the thing. Hurricane and and his. fans will say, "Oh, but he won the. golden boot in 2018." Yes, but why did. he win the golden boot? He scored a hat. trick against Panama. Scored, I think, another two goals against Tunisia. And. then he scored the one goal he had. scored I think in the knockout stages.

against Colombia. Here's the thing. Here's where I struggle with Hurricane. And people make so many excuses for him. Remember I said great players. I don't. want to hear your excuses. >> Okay. So you want Okay. I'm with. >> Roario. >> Yeah. >> He didn't go like oh no one is serving. me. Oh my. No. Romeo took the World Cup. by the scuff of the neck. >> Gad Müller took the World Cup by the. scuff of the neck. Rosi took the World. Cup by the scan elome. original took the. World Cup by the cover mirror crosser. He didn't even have the most spectacular.

club career. Why do we think of him as. one of the greats? He took the World Cup. by the scuff of the neck. They didn't. make excuses. These are pure nines. Now, hurricane fans will go like, "Oh, but. you see, he opens up space hogwash. I'm. not interested. Great nines don't open. up space. They're not Walmart street. Walmart greeters." Then [laughter] they. will say, "Oh, you know, hurricane. defense extra hogwash. my my striker. shouldn't be defending. I judge my. striker purely is he putting the ball in. the net. And so for me when I look at at. hurricane, this is why I struggle and I. know English fans will go like you're.

being harsh on him. Club football, he. delivers week in week out. Hurricane. delivers for his club. I'm talking just. international football. Hurricane Kane, we were there in Russia his first World. Cup 2018. Hurricane scored six goals in. the groups one in the knockouts. Their. biggest game against Croatia. What did. he do? He went missing. Who scored the. goal? Kanan Trippia. He went missing. Croatia came back in that game. I went. like, "Okay, his first World Cup. I'll. give him grace. Euro the next Euros 2020.

21. Where was Hurricane in the final? Look scores a goal against Italy. Third. minute. Hurricane show us something. Hurricane disappears. Italy comes back, wins. Next World Cup 2022. Hurricane. plays well in the group stages. He meets. France. Disappears the whole game. Gets. a penalty towards the end. He scores it. Gets another penalty to send the game to. equalize. What does he do? High pressure. moment. He skies it. I go like, "Okay, now this guy's on real fraud watch.".

Euro 2024. That's when I broke. That's. when that's when I give up on Hurricane. cuz they play against Spain. Hurricane disappears the whole game. Co. Palmer scores the equalizer on 68. minutes. What does the English tactical. setup do? What does the coach do? Hooks. hurricane. Subs him out when they need a. goal. That's when I went like this guy. only appears. When the lights are. brightest, he disappears. >> So So question So question I have for.

you. >> So from this World Cup, have you put is. Lamin on fraud watch? >> Lamin won. He's still young. >> No, no. I'm just asking. I'm just. asking. No, no. You don't have to give. me You don't have to give me just yes or. no. >> Okay. So just yes or no. Okay, then. that's why I'll tell you why. No, you. don't have to tell me why. saying you. need to create moments of danger. >> Joe, for me, Joe, it's fine. I'm not. saying yes or no. I just wanted to know. >> Okay, so let me just finish this. So for. me, this is how I look at Hurricane cuz. I want people to understand Hurricane is. a great club player. I look at Hurricane. [laughter] the way Trevor, I look at.

Hurricane. Listen, >> no one defends someone. No, no, we're. going to run out of time. Joe, we got. I'm moving on. Let me just finish this. No, you can't. I'm moving on. I'm moving. on. Let's talk about Thomas Tuchil and. the team. Let's move on. Let's move on. >> Yes. I think he's a great knockout. >> Do you think you know? >> No, I should ask you. I think actually I. should ask you about him first. >> Why? >> Cuz him and Birmingham came out with. very defiring accounts of the game. against Norway. Tuko thought they got. lucky. Tuko thought they didn't play. well and uh Biringham went like clearly. doesn't know what it means to play at.

this level. >> So So what do you think about that? >> Okay. So here's what I'll say. I think that. the English media, >> okay, >> and the media in particular sometimes. >> will portray themselves as being on the. side of the people or its people. >> Mhm. >> At any given time. And often times we. forget that a lot of the media is on its. own side. >> Okay. >> And the side it's on is the side of. clicks and views. >> It's not the voice of the people. Okay.

Yes. >> Okay. Okay. So. >> Thomas Tuchil, >> what he was coming out and saying, >> I love how they keep calling him Tuchel. >> Yeah, >> he's tal. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. But I'm saying it in. English. >> No, say it in German. You. >> Why do you want me to say it in German? >> You're the famous black Hitler. >> No. Why [laughter]. are we going to People who have no. context for that are going to be like, "What the hell are you talking about?". >> No. Yeah. >> If you go um if you look at Thomas. Tuchelle, right, he's got um he's got. his views on the game. If you listen to. what he's saying when he's asked about.

England, >> he's saying, "Listen, man. >> I don't like what we did on the field.". >> And he's right. Yes. >> I think we were sloppy. >> I think our pace wasn't good. >> And I think we were lucky. >> I don't want to keep being lucky. >> I want to win games definitively because. I also understand the team that I have. >> Mhm. >> Right. If I look at the individuals on. the field, we should be performing. better than this. Okay. >> And then a commentator says to him, "Oh,

do you think it's a mentality issue?" He. says, "No." He says, >> "All we have right now is mentality.". >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Which is him praising the team. He's. saying, >> he's praising Jude Bellingham. He's. praising. He's basically going, we're. taking games and making, you know, something out of [ __ ] essentially. But but you can't continue to thrive on. mentality, >> right? Mentality is something you use, you know, like Argentina, a lot of it. has been mentality. >> It has really been mentality,

>> but man, a lot of it has been. brilliance. And like there's many parts. of the game where we're watching them. going, "Oh, they've got this. They've. got this." Then the mentality is when. they're down or when they're even and. it's extra time and then you go, they. can still do it. That's mentality. >> You need your mentality to help you when. your tactics when your tactics let you. down. I think that's what he's saying. The journalist then goes to Jude. >> Bellingham. >> and they phrase it as if Tuchil's only. opinion of the team and the game was. disappointment and criticism.

>> Jude is fresh out of like his. exhaustion. >> Adrenaline still pumping gas. >> Key gold. You see him shocked. Also. remember this is something that people. forget and this is a key thing. How long. has Tuchil been the the coach? >> No. No. It's been a short time. It's. been what a year, two months. Yeah. Thomas Tougl doesn't have like a history. with these guys. He doesn't have he. doesn't have a legacy that he's built. He doesn't have like a deep. understanding. He you know what I mean? >> I think people shouldn't take that for. granted. >> People shouldn't take for granted what. it means when people trust the coach and.

know the coach. But then. >> because because I'll tell you this. >> after a game if Alex Ferguson said. something like that about one of his Man. United teams, >> if Pep Guardiola said something like. that about No, not not even if let's go. back. Let's go with this. When Alex. Ferguson criticized his team after. winning a game but not winning it the. way they wanted. When Pep Guardiola. criticized his team. When Jurgen Klopp. criticized his team, when those coaches. did it, when Mourinho criticized his. team, >> when they did that,

>> the players, >> benefit of doubt, >> the players knew what the coach was. saying. So they would say, "Yes, >> I hear I I I'm also I can see why the. coach cuz Harry [clears throat] Kane. came and said that and maybe he has a. different relationship with the with the. German coach, >> but no no one understands a word. hurricane is saying, >> but Harry Kane Harry Kane came out and. he said he said, >> "Yeah, I agree with the coach. I don't. think we played well. >> I don't and and maybe like maybe like. maybe maybe maybe Jude was conflating. from that question. He was conflating.

>> putting your heart out there.". >> Yes. But you're very Trevor, you're. always very good at timing and context. You're always going like, is it the. right time to say something? Is it your. place? Do you don't you think maybe it. behooved or maybe it should being the. manager, he should have known better. than to say that at that time? Say it. back in the dressing room instead of. saying, >> "Yeah, look up." No, no, you're not. you're not wrong. You're not wrong. But. then I think there's also like there's. also going to be a debate. People say. there's some coaches where people.

complain because it feels like they. don't know what's going on. And then the. fans, >> you're right, you're right. >> And then the fans, >> the whole time he was at Madrid, they. kept going like, "You keep blaming. yourself. You never call the team." Are. you right? >> You see, so now when a coach blames. themselves, fans go, "Why don't they. blame the Yeah, why don't you blame the. players?" And then when a coach. >> walks away from a game going like, "Yeah, all that matters is the result. The team go the fans go, we don't want. results, we want a game.". >> And so I I think I think that's the. thing. So, you know, it'll be. interesting to see how they perform. I. think I think I think Argentina is.

winning that game 3-0 easily. >> That's your prediction? >> That's my prediction. Yes. 3-0. >> Yes. I'm pulling I'M TAKING OUT MY. BALLS, slapping them on this table. 3-0. I think Argentina I think Argentina. people people have been analyzing. >> You know who's you know who's perfect. for you is the you know you want to talk. about a World Cup of controversies. Did. you see the story that's just come out. about the Sagal team? >> Oh yes. Yes. >> Where they said apparently the team. doctor who's meant to be like sports. science and all of that apparently. trained as a gynecologist. My favorite. part of the story, My favorite part of.

the story was it said. >> the team found this out too late. >> Oh. >> And yeah, but I went like the way it was. phrased, it made it seem like one of the. players came and said, "I had a ham I. have a hamstring issue.". >> And the doctor said, "Drop your pants.". >> He has only one solution. Yes. >> Drop your buns. Let's Let's see what's. happening. Drop your buns. Let's. >> hamstring. Yes. >> It's so But this is what you remember. what we were talking about African. football. >> Why does Morocco do well? Why is this? >> That's my thing. >> That's a small thing. No, to go back to.

Argentina, the reason I think they're. going to win that game is I think one, you talked about it. They team that has. character. The team that is built to. suffer. The team when the chips are. down, they don't fold. And we've seen it. in this World Cup. We saw it in 2022. Yeah. >> Um they were what, 45 minutes away from. getting knocked out. No, you look look. every episode of the podcast is you. going this team is forged in fire and. fire and they have it's a Spanish phrase. they have a thing called malle. >> is when it's the English translation bad.

milk yes they they have a competitive. fire that few other teams have and I. think they've been a bit unlucky in. their knockout games they have played. they could they've created enough. chances to win by five goals but voinia. shoe of Egypt Gregor kobo of they've. made some great goal the keepers have. playing out of No, they've made some. great I don't think I don't think Pford. is going to do that and that's why. >> Pford had some great performance little. tiny T-Rex arms you know it doesn't. matter 3 yeah 3-0 Leave it there then. let's leave it there I want to leave it.

right there with your balls on the table. >> I also want to call Spain cuz we're. doing this before Spain. >> before Spain France yes everyone thinks. that oh France is going to win I think. Spain is going to win it 2-1 cuz I think. Spain is a team built to actually beat. France cuz France normally beats teams. because France is ball dominant and for. the first time they're going to be. forced to defend and. >> this is yeah this is coming out okay. we'll see Mbappe Dembele Dway and Oris. are going to be forced to do something. they hate doing they're going to be. forced to do something that all.

attacking players hate doing which is. chase the ball and you know when in. boxing we have the phrase styles make. fights cuz normally you can you can be. the greatest fighter you think this is a. style clash. >> yes Floyd Mayweather always beat. everyone till he met uh what's his name. Marcus Miner Marcos uh the Argentine. Marcos Mad I Marcos Maidana he always. struggled against him man Pacquiao would. beat everyone till he met one Manuel uh. one Manuel Marquez so every time you. there's always that one team that's.

almost built to France is that team. >> and Spain is that team when it comes to. France and I think they're going to. struggle yes. >> all right let's see. >> so yeah so for me. maybe maybe before I go I just want to. say one thing I would like great players. standing up and again feels like I'm. emphasizing it But I hate what we call. in cricket flat track bullies. I don't. like players who put up big score lines. against small teams. Who put up big. score lines against other man? We have a. game to watch. I want to watch tomorrow. against the game.

>> Yes. [music]. >> Thank you again so much to the sponsor. of today's episode, Verizon. They've. given [music] their customers unmatched. access to the FIFA World Cup 2026, including thousands of free tickets, people, meet and greets with soccer. legends, and the once in a-lifetime. opportunity to watch a portion of the. FIFA World Cup from the pitch. From the. pitch. All just for being a Verizon.

customer. If you're not with Verizon, no. sweat. Stop by a Verizon store to get in. on the action and learn about their. amazing offers for new customers. Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let. them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you.

can chat to us. We will [music] read. through the comments and we'll get into. it. Either way, I appreciate you taking. the time. Thank you for hanging out with. us on What [music] Now. And remember, we. do this for you, so we would like to. hear from you. Till next time, thank. you.