The Absolute Chaos of World Cup Week 1 | Trevor Noah & Joe Opio World Cup Special

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>> This [music] is What Now with Trevor. Noah. >> We made it, Joe. >> Oh, we did. >> We made it. Here we are. >> Finally. >> What is this? Uh. 8 years of planning, 4 years of waiting, and then. 1 week of chaos. Welcome to week one. of the 2026 FIFA World Cup hosted by. Mexico, the United States, and Canada.

You know, even saying it. makes it feel as. as jam-packed as it's been. More countries hosting than ever before, more games than ever before, more. countries participating than ever. before. I don't remember the last time I started. watching a game in the same country as. the games are hosted, by the way. >> Oh, yeah. >> At midnight. >> Yeah, it's. First of all, the gestation period. When. you said 8 years, I went like, actually. it's been 8 years. >> Yeah, it's been 8 years of planning. Yeah. >> 8 years. in which.

Wow. But, I feel like now that we are. here, and that's the thing about the World. Cup, now that we are here, it feels like. it was worth the wait. >> It does. It does. Maybe maybe that's a. good place to start. It's like, let's. let's jump straight into the games. Um. who surprised you? Who has underwhelmed you? >> Mhm. >> Who shows promise? I mean, like, if we. think of the big teams, the one that. comes top of mind, you know, because it. was one of the most recent games, Germany. >> Mhm. >> They're the first like big team who said. we're a big team. They're the first team.

who shown that they're a big team. >> They needed it. They had a scare, of. course, at 1-1. You went like, "Oh, here. it goes again." Cuz Germany, after. winning the World Cup in Brazil, 2014, they have failed in the next two World. Cups to make it past the group stages. >> 2018. >> They stayed behind having lost to Mexico. in their opening game. And then last. World Cup, they lost to Japan. And. things went downhill from there. So, they needed this win. But then when. Curaçao. equalized, you went like, "Oh, here it. goes again. Here it goes again." So,

yeah, Germany have definitely, definitely That was a statement win. >> It definitely was. I mean, beating a. team 7-1, you know, you think at like 5-1, you. start relaxing. >> Germans don't show mercy. >> No, they don't. They really don't. >> But I The funny thing is the reaction. from Curaçao. Like, I've been online and. Curaçao fans, credit to them, are like, "For us, this was historic. The fact. that we were invited to the high table. and we held our own for as long as we. did. And we scored our first World Cup. goal ever. Smallest country ever take. part in the World Cup. 150,000 people.

It means a lot to them. So, for them. Cuz we were comparing them to Brazil. We. were like, "Oh, 7-1. Oh, Brazil has. handed over the mantle." They were like, "No, we are proud. Brazil was. traumatized. For us today, it was a. national holiday.". >> It is amazing, you know, one of the. things that I love about the World Cup. is how every team comes to the World Cup. with a different objective in mind. >> Yes. >> Like every every team. So, if you come. in as one of the the big teams, if. you're France, if you're Spain, if. you're Germany, if you're Argentina,

anything less than success, anything. less than victory is deemed a failure. >> Yes. >> If you come in as one of like the. middling teams, then it's like, can you get far? >> Yes. >> You know, so like, no one's expecting. Japan to win. No one's expecting Côte. d'Ivoire to win. >> No one's expecting South Korea to win. No one's expecting, you know, Curaçao to. But then there's teams like Curaçao, actually, and like [clears throat] and. like Qatar and all these teams where. it's like. if they get one goal. >> Yes. Yes. >> They they treat it like they won the. World Cup. >> Yes, and I I think in fairness to.

Curacao. they were handed the toughest opening. game over the small teams. >> You think so? >> Yes, cuz Haiti, you know, they did lost. to Scotland, but Scotland you go like, you know, if Scotland had beaten Haiti. 7-1, you'd be disappointed. But they're. facing Germany who are four-time It's. like the worst way to welcome them to. the World Cup party. >> Or the best way. >> Here are the Germans. >> Oh, yeah, actually. >> way, cuz it can only go up. >> You know, you know, it I don't know if. you I don't know if you saw this, after. the game.

some of the German players went and. prayed with the. >> Oh. >> with the with the players from Curacao. And I was just like it was a like a. beautiful moment, but I was also like. that's when you know someone has. demolished you is when they're even. going to pray with you after the game. >> You went sportsmanship. Like that's I. like that though. >> That's when I knew that's when I knew. that like, you know, when I got like the. biggest spankings from my mom she prayed. with me afterwards. She was like. >> Oh, when she was like, yeah. >> Yeah, she was like, now that you got. your beating come let's pray. Let's pray. that this never happens to you again. >> [laughter]. >> Pray for forgiveness.

>> You know, some people get it like the. Germans had a bit of residual guilt. They were like. >> I've never I've never seen that though. I've never I've never seen. >> do it to Brazil certainly. >> No, they didn't. And Brazil also has. religious players in the team. >> Yes. >> Yeah, but they went and they prayed with. them, which I liked. It had the spirit. of the World Cup. You know who You know. who didn't pray after beating their. opponents? Mexico against South Africa. in the opening. Yo, man. >> To be fair. I thought. South Africans. I I and I told you this, I think South. Africa beat itself.

I don't think Mexico beat South Africa. >> You don't think so? >> No, I don't think. >> Okay, I think so. Say more. How? >> So, they committed an error at the. opening The opening goal was a gift. >> Uh by the. >> Yeah, the defensive midfielder. >> failed to turn with the ball. Yeah, turned. >> Yes. >> He scanned way earlier. >> Yes. >> received the ball. But his touch was. horrific. >> Yes. >> And then he was chasing the ball and. then it was too late. >> Yes. And then, you know, the two red. cards didn't help. So, for me, I feel. like South Africa I I I I I I I I I I. Look, I know South Africans think that. maybe their team is hopeless after that,

but I think the result. I think they're Okay, South Africa was. very First of all, they played way. cautiously. They were way They They. played almost negatively. >> That's that's the issue that I think. South Africans have is we're not. concerned about like it's We don't think. the team's hopeless. It didn't look like. we were trying to win the game, and you. don't go through by drawing three three. games. You get what I'm saying? Like, you don't come to a World Cup, draw. three games, and then think that's. enough to take you through. >> No, but also, if you go as a coach, if. you go, "Okay, we're going to play. conservatively." The way Let's say Japan.

played the opening minutes of their game. against You go, "Okay, we're going to. play You're hoping none of your players. makes a mistake, cuz then when your. player makes a mistake, and then you. gift the other team a goal, now your. plan goes out of the window.". >> then I would But then I would argue, right? If you're playing a game like. that, you're playing against a team that. has way more players playing in Europe. You know, the Mexican team, even on. paper, seems like a better team than. South Africa. Then do what do what Japan. did against the Netherlands in the in. the first half.

They didn't They didn't waste too much. time holding the ball. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> [clears throat]. >> They made sure they moved the ball to. the other side of the field. Get the. ball out of your danger area. Then play. See if you can get a shot. See if you. can. Because the pressure, people, the. pressure's on you. Mexico's at home in a. historic stadium. Their fans are all. behind them. All of Africa is up against. you as South Africa. So, you have like. double the fan base against you, and. there's the nerves. There's the nerves. of all of this. Why are you playing a. game. that relies on calm when you're that.

nervous? I would have just To be honest, I would have I would have played that. game out. I would have played it closer. to Japan, who Yo. >> They had a great But you you asked me. about the team that surprised me the. most. Japan I expected it. >> Yeah. >> The team cuz Japan, you know, as I told. you, they have beaten Spain, they have. beaten Germany in the last World Cup. They have beaten Brazil and they have. beaten England in their friendlies. I. expected I expected them to hold their. own against the Dutch. The team that The. team that blew me away was the US. I watched that game. You couldn't. recognize the US. You kept asking, "Who.

is this?" Yes. >> The United States of Spain. That's what. that was. >> That was incredible. Yes. United States. of. >> States of Golazos, the United States of. Tiki-Taka, the United States of total. football. The United States of. Trevellas, the United States of total. like the pressing up the field. Do you know what I mean? When you When. you look at that team and how they were. playing the game, yo, I I still cannot. get over. Okay, here's here's what's more. interesting to me. It's not the fact that Team USA played. the way that they did. It's that Team. USA seems to have hidden this until now.

>> They did beat your wife for one, which. was impressive, but I thought it was a. one-off. >> Yes, but beat This is how they played. >> Yes. Yes, it was very un-American. And I know normally in America that's a. bad thing, but when it comes to football. football styles, that was a very. un-American style. They were It was Joga. Bonito. It was Joga Bonito. Yeah, the. way they were enjoying themselves. Antonee Robinson was inviting, Sergino. Dest was inviting, they were attacking. Pulisic was having fun on the wing. You.

had Weston McKennie making like runs. into the box. It was. Every player deserved a 10. >> Can I tell you if you if you invested in. all of those players before that game, you would be receiving the highest. return on investment. Like their their. stock price after that game has. skyrocketed. >> You would be receiving higher returns. than even. >> There's There's no There's no There's no. Yeah, no, no, no. This is like This is. There's no one like Balogun for. instance. He went from Who is this guy? Only like deep football fans knew.

Balogun and now he is a sought-after. striker. >> His runs off the ball in that game. >> His touches on the ball. >> yes. >> His striking. >> The goal he scored, the second goal was. insane. That touch to him Oh my god. And. again, cuz cuz now I'm wondering. do we credit Pochettino for that? Cuz these are the same players, these. same players. >> Yeah. >> under the old coach, Gregg Berhalter. It's the same team, exactly. Almost the. same exact team. >> Same team, Balogun, everyone. >> Yes, but they've changed something has.

changed and. >> Yeah, then you have to credit the coach. >> And I think people That's That's when. people go like, "Oh, you need a top. coach as well. You need a top coach like cuz normally, you know, the coaches for the. international teams don't get as much. time with the players. >> Yeah, they don't. >> So, it's harder for them to impose their. philosophy, but. Pochettino has clearly found a way. >> No, he's found a way. I mean, has he. also found pressure now though? Like do. do you do you I always wonder if you. want to just win versus thrash the. opponent going into the next game cuz I. part of me wonders if now Team USA has. put a target on their backs.

>> Mhm. >> And at at at most World Cups, I find the winner is generally somebody. who escapes the the the magnifying glass. at the beginning. You know, you you you. escape that focus. >> Mhm. >> You look at Argentina in Qatar. >> Yes. >> Uh you look at Spain in in 2010. You. look You look at any tournament, even. France when they won it. >> Like. >> you just you look shaky, no one's. watching you, everyone's thrashing. everyone on the other side, and then you. sort of sneak through to the knockouts. And then you win a game here, you win a. game there, and you win another game. Next thing you know, you've won the.

final. >> with you because I think one of the. truths about any tournament is the team. that wins the tournament has to peak at. the right time. >> Yeah, you don't. >> So, you can't peak early. >> Yeah, you completely want to peak early. >> you're saying, you peak too early and. then there's a a target on your back, but everyone is watching out. So, you. have to almost like pace yourself, so to. speak. But I think for the US, as the. hosts and coming in with the problems. they had, like cuz there was so much. external noise surrounding the team. >> Yeah. >> Fans are not invested. There's the. political ramifications. There's all.

this drama. >> Amen. >> That like shut all that down. >> Let me tell you something. The fans were. invested. SoFi Stadium was electric. >> no, but I mean like from the national. anthem like. >> Yes, you know, that's when you know, that's when you know your team's having. a good day from the national anthem. People are like, this might be the best. national anthem I've ever heard in my. life. And then the team came out and. they were like, this could be the best. US perform this could be the best goal, this could be the best and then travel. it to top it off. >> Mhm. >> There's there's a few better ways. >> That was best because Americans also. love.

a great ending. So, if you're winning. three nil, but you're up three by the. 60th minute, then they are like, yeah, but the last minutes, that was a. dramatic way to send everyone home. But. I'm saying the reason I say fans are. invested now, there are people who. didn't care about football. >> That's true. >> hardcore fans were already there. But. there are people who didn't care, but. we've been in America long enough to. know that Americans only care about. winners. >> Amen. >> They don't care what you do, they don't. care. That's why you hear talks about. like, you know, when you know, when you. Americans going like, oh, this is a come.

would have a comeback story. Well, it. doesn't matter what you do. If you can. come back, if you can win, America is a. country that's built on second acts. >> Yeah, Rocky. >> Yes. So long as you come back and win. And so for me, there are people who are. not engaged with the game, but when they. saw America beating another country by. four goals, they are like, yeah, we're. in. We are dominating. That's what. America loves. >> The only thing I think people love more. than a comeback story is mocking the. favorite when they don't when they don't. perform.

Like if you look at some of the. countries who were meant to win, one that springs to mind, Turkey. playing against Australia. >> Yeah. >> There, Balogun, one of their players, he. gave a he gave an interview before the. game where they asked him, how do you. think it's going to He was like, we're. going to dominate them. He was like, we sounded a little bit. like Wembanyama where he's like, we're. going to dominate them, you know, we're. going to This is what we do, we got this. game. Did you see there was a clip of. Arda Güler, one of the attacking players. >> Real Madrid player. >> Yeah, from. Turkey in the in the um what do you call.

it in the tunnel? Right before they come out onto the. pitch and it's just him talking to his. >> Teammate. >> To his teammates and he shouts out he. shouts out he's like guys we're way. better than them. Let's prove it on the. field and then you cut to 90 minutes. later and they're losing two nil not. even two one by the way two nil. To the Socceroos which can I just add. like. If you call your team the Socceroos I. feel like you have trolled everyone you. play against because it seems like you. don't take it seriously. >> It's actually so funny that we never. mock Australians for that cuz we mock.

Americans for calling it soccer. And if the Australia even America went. like no we're not calling our team the. Socceroos. >> The Socceroos is. >> Yes it's really yes. >> Who beat you? The Socceroos. >> Yes. >> The Socceroos did this to you. Don't. forget about it mate. The Socceroos did. this to you. >> like a made up yes it sounds like if if. an American was writing a script. The soccer the soccer like movie or. soccer series and they go like oh our. team is Socceroos. I think it I think it. was a terrible devastating result for. Turkey. Or Turkey as we call it these.

days cuz I think they're a very. passionate people when it comes to. soccer. If you've watched like European. games and you've seen like the fans of. Galatasaray or Fenerbahçe or the Sixers. they're a very like. Basketball is big in Turkey but football. by far is like the national religion yes. and for you to lose to a country where. football. Is not even anywhere near the top four. sports cuz remember in Australia it's. cricket it's rugby it's Australian rules. football. >> Then soccer.

>> And then soccer and for you to lose to. that team I think. >> Maybe even swimming comes before that. >> Yes yeah exactly. I think it was a. crushing crushing I don't think anyone. in Turkey or anyone back in Istanbul. expected that result. I didn't I. certainly didn't expect it. >> You didn't expect that at all? >> I didn't expect Australia to even. compete. >> I I don't know why people say that maybe. okay maybe I have a different. perspective on Australia. When I've. watched them play their games in. previous World Cups or when I've watched. them in major tournaments, the Australians seem to work hard, they. work together, and they've never seemed.

like a walkover. So, I don't understand. why people were shocked. >> So, they're very Australian team cuz. Australians by nature, these people. built a country out of a penal colony. Like they work hard. But I'm saying. Turkey has Turkey has some of the. brightest talents in world football, right now. >> Yeah, but okay, you know what you know. what I've noticed has changed in world. football though. Okay. Uh and I mean you you you maybe you'll. disagree with me on this cuz you know. the game better than I do. But like I. feel like the low block has changed. football forever. So, I feel like you know, back in the.

day. a team and its likelihood of success in. my opinion was determined by each player. and their match up in that position. >> Okay, yes. >> Okay. >> One on one, yeah. >> So, it was like one on one. You've got a. very strong winger, you're going to beat. my left back or right back. You've got a. very strong striker, they're going to. beat my center back. You've got a very. strong midfielder, they'll beat my etc. etc. And then with the changing in how the. game has been played over the past few. years, let's say over the past like. five-ish years, >> [snorts]. >> now I find a lot of teams are more.

willing to bring the whole team back. to play the game and press and defend. Sort of what people are complaining that. like Kylian Mbappe doesn't do at Real. Madrid, right? People were saying that. Salah was forced to do this season for. Liverpool, didn't do it before, but. that's what hurt the team. But it's like. there are teams who've gone, oh yeah, we. might not be as good as you man for man, but two men for man changes the. equation. And if you watch the. Australia-Turkey game, there were swaths of the game.

where Australia had eight men in the box. in a straight line. Eight men, and then it was like, you. know, another two men just in front of. them, and that was it. That was their. formation in a way. And all they were waiting for was the. break. Japan I could argue was similar. in some ways. They brought everybody. back. When Cody Gakpo from the. Netherlands was trying to cut in, they. just had. their two men on him the entire time. So, it doesn't become like a one-on-one. moment. It becomes a can you break.

through everyone moment? You know, Morocco I'd even argue did. that against Brazil. You know, they frustrated Brazil. The one moment Vinicius got a chance to. be one-on-one. He scored a goal. The rest of the game we didn't hear from. him. >> It's a very interesting It's very. interesting to talk about the low block. because it's it's supposed to do exactly. that. It's supposed to. make the team. better than the sum of its parts. Yeah. Right. So, again, as you're saying, if Turkey has. Arda Güler who plays for Madrid, and if. Turkey has Kenan Yildiz who plays for.

Juventus, and the Socceroos have no one. playing in any of these top leagues, then their only option is to work as a. team. And that's the funny thing about. football. So, football used to be a team. game that had individual battles. The thing you said about football. >> used to be a team game that had. individual battles. Yeah. >> So, it was a team game, but then there. were people like going one-on-one. So, which made it more like a tennis or. boxing match. But now, coaches are. realizing, oh, there's a way we can for. us to nullify a player like Messi, we.

can't leave him one-on-one cuz he's. going to beat his man every time. For us. to nullify a player like Lamela or. Neymar, we can't leave him one-on-one. What What do you have to do? You have to. double. And I think they're taking that, funny enough, from games like. basketball. >> They have, but I think I think soccer's. taken a lot from basketball over the. years. Like we've seen the pick and roll. come into the game. We've seen screens. come into the game. I mean, Arsenal. dominated a whole season basically. playing set pieces like it was. basketball. You've seen that switch come. over where now teams have also realized.

that fitness isn't a talent. >> Yes. >> You know, you might pay a lot of money. for a talented player, but fitness is. something that everyone can just work. on. And so, if you have a fitter team. than the other team, you just make them. run, you make them recycle the ball, you. get behind the ball. It's a frustrating. That Brazil versus Morocco game, you could tell that Brazil. A, was struggling with the fact that. this is not their best team, but B, they. were frustrated by the fact that they. just weren't getting chances to play.

And And by the way, we have to talk. about. um the Moroccan midfielder. >> Oh, are you bored yet? >> Man. >> Yeah. Yo, everyone that. >> Yo. >> He's 18. >> [snorts]. >> And that Moroccan team is very young, but I'm saying. >> That boy. >> coaches who can trust a player at that. age against Brazil. Cuz that's where you need the coaches'. faith. >> And not just against Brazil. Look Look. who he's playing in that midfield. He. was playing against. >> Casemiro Lucas Paquetá. >> Lucas Paquetá and Bruno Guimarães and.

then switched out to Fabinho. >> At half time. At half time they were. Yes, yes. >> They switched out to And he still. >> dominated them. >> bossed the game. An 18-year-old. >> It was impressive. >> days before was the captain for the. French. >> No, that's Yeah, that's I think I think. it speaks to Morocco's. ascent or rise in world football that. they can actually now lure a talent away. from bigger countries. Cuz initially. >> I disagree. >> Okay. >> I disagree.

>> Why? Give me your reason cuz I think I. >> I think African teams have struggled. before. >> Yeah, but I I I I I I I I disagree. I. don't think it's a standing. I think. the quality of football has risen so. much over all over the world. >> Okay. >> that now there's a saturation in teams. So, if you look at Let's just look at. leagues, right? Leagues. Like the. Premier League is better than it's ever. been. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Um the Spanish League has continuously. pumped out some of the most talented. players, right? And then you look at. like the German League.

>> Mhm. >> Yo, they're like. >> The quality is not there. >> slowly come Like you look at Leverkusen. who wasn't like a name a few years ago. in that way, but now are challenging for. titles and winning titles. You still. have Dortmund, you still have Bayern, you know, um you go to like the Dutch league where. the teams Portuguese all all the teams. when Bodo Glimt is now in the Champions. League. >> Yes, yes, in the knockout rounds. >> Actually playing, yeah. I think it changes how many players. there are. Now, when that happens, I. think you find yourself in a situation. where national teams are so saturated.

that as a player, you now risk being number four in a. picking order. So, if you look at um. Ayoub Bouaddi. >> Yes. >> Yeah, he's phenomenal. But, what did we. say? He was the captain of the youth. French team a month ago. Right? If he. wants to get into the French squad and. take a starting position, he has to come. in ahead of Adrien Rabiot. or he has to take Zaire um Emery's. position and Emery himself comes off the. bench or he has to take Who else is in. that midfield?

>> Tchouaméni's. >> Tchouaméni's position. He has to take. >> Camavinga didn't even get on the plane. >> Think about that now. So, now I think. what's actually happened is players have. gone. I'm not going to risk my whole career, my international career, sitting out, hoping to play for a big team or a big. country. >> when I can go and play for. >> Immediately. Yes. >> another country that I'm eligible for. >> But, the thing is where where where I. say where why I talk about the ascent is. in the past, say player like Zidane. >> Yeah.

>> A player like Zidane couldn't play for. Algeria cuz Algeria wouldn't make it to. the World Cup. If that makes sense. So, now players go. like, "Oh, I can go for Morocco because. Morocco is good enough to get me to the. World Cup.". >> So, if chicken and the egg though, no? >> Yeah, if Morocco couldn't make it to the. World Cup, Brahim Díaz would never have. declared for them. He would have gone. like, "I'll wait and wait for Spain cuz. Spain will get there." So, I feel like because they know also it's. not just getting there cuz Morocco is. not Curaçao, Morocco is not Uzbekistan,

Morocco is not Haiti. They're going to. like, "Oh, we're going with a team. that's going to compete actually.". >> Yeah, but no, but you know, this is. where I disagree with you. I feel like. it's it's chicken and the egg here. The reason they competed is because. those players are there. So, the reason. Morocco did so well is partly because. because Hakimi is there. The reason they. So, it's like if they're not there, the. team doesn't do well. >> Yes. >> So, they have to make the decision to go. and help the team do well. I argue it's. because they're looking at their. prospects. Okay, cuz if Hakimi didn't. play. >> Hakimi could would have played for. Spain. >> You think he would have gotten in?

>> played for Spain. I think I don't think. I don't think he would have played as. quickly as he did cuz Carvajal would. have kept him out. >> But that's the point. >> I think he was good enough. >> But that's the point. And you know, when. you are a player who isn't necessarily. seen as of the country, it's also risky. >> yeah. I don't know if. >> Cuz at some point they might say, "Oh, but where's the Spanish right back?". >> Yes, it is. It is. >> There's always an option for that. >> is. Yes. >> Right? >> It is. But I'm thinking the fact that. they can convince players now, again, as. you say, when you're the captain of the. under.

18 team of France, you're on the first. track basically to get into the French. team. Adrien Rabiot is not going to play. the next World Cup. >> That's true. >> He's playing now. Many of the players. who are blocking Ayoub Bouaddi. are not going to be blocking him 2 years. from now at the Euros. Same thing happened with Lamine. Lamine. could have declared for Morocco, but he. went like, "I'm going to declare for. Spain." But if Morocco tried to convince. him, but sometimes it's almost like. signing a player for a club. You have to. convince them of the project. >> That's true. >> So, if you convince.

>> what the US did with Balogun. >> So, if Morocco comes to Ayoub Bouaddi. and they're like, "Hey, we not only want. you to play for our team, but we're. going to be hosting the World Cup 4. years from now. And this is what we have. in you know, and we've reached the. semi-finals. >> Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. >> It's it's more That's what the European. teams used to do. They would just go. like, "No, you come to us, you're going. to go to the World Cup. You're. guaranteed to go to the World Cup.". If John Barnes, who was our guest, if Jamaica was good enough back then, as. he told you, he played for England with. had. passport. But Jamaica was never an If.

you read John Barnes' story, he wasn't even going to play for. England. He was just waiting for any. team from the United Kingdom. If. Scotland had come to him, he would have. played Yeah, cuz he wanted to go to the. World Cup, and Jamaica was never going. to go to the World Cup, yeah. >> But the But the kid But it has become. the World Cup of of switched. allegiances. >> Yes. >> Because everyone if if we go down the. running order like opening game. opening goal for Mexico. >> Quiñones. >> scored by Quiñones and he is.

>> He's from Colombia. >> Colombia. >> be playing for Colombia, but he declared. for Mexico. >> for Mexico. He's lived there since he. was like 17. His family's there. His. kids are there. He's like, "Yo, Mexico's. my home.". >> Yes. >> And so here he is as this player. The US obviously, Balogun. >> Yes. >> Born in the US. His story is amazing. because it's like he was born here and. it I if you can believe everything that. it's basically he was just born here cuz. his mom wasn't allowed to fly out. >> Yes, because America again, because. America has birth right citizenship. Yeah, America born on the soil, yes. >> So he was just born here and then. that was it. He I don't even think he.

like lived his life here, but here he is. carrying America's dreams now in attack. You have I'm trying to think of who else. has done this. >> Australia had a bunch of players. >> Oh, yeah. No, Australia definitely, right? You had. guys who came into Australia when they. were teenagers, you know, went to. university now. I mean, like they've. they're they're they're they're running. the attack. You had Who else have we. got? We got Morocco's team was. interesting because. they made history as I guess the first. national team at a World Cup when none. of the players were born in the country.

that they're representing. >> Yes, but that's what I'm That's what. That's the thing I'm saying about. Morocco's project cuz they specifically. went out. to try and. bring this talent back home. >> You know, you know I was wondering this though. Do. you think it undermines the whole point. of a World Cup if a player can just. switch allegiances to another country at. any point or is it cuz there's two ways. to think of it, right? On the one hand, you can say the whole point of a World. Cup is that it's not a competition about. which team could get the best players,

it's an exhibition. of which. teams or which national teams were made. up of the players they happen to have. >> Yes, yes. >> Another argument is, no, the World Cup is just an exhibition of. the team that a country could put. together. And so, whether or not a. player's from that country shouldn't. really How do you What do you Which way. do you lean? >> The way I look at it is. So, you said a player can switch, but. FIFA is very strict. >> Okay. >> Once you play in a competitive game.

for your country, it's done. >> Are you sure? >> It's done. Once you play in a. competitive. >> with. >> If you play friendlies. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What. happened with. um. I feel like it was your boy, man. You He. played at Barcelona. Uh Laporte, wasn't he wasn't he on the. French team and then Spanish team? >> played a competitive game. He played in. the bunch of friendlies. So, you're. allowed to be called up, but once you. play actually. >> Actually, some countries have been. accused of calling up players and then. capping them. So, they call you up for a. competitive game, then they know you can.

never. >> You're lying. >> Yes, when when they see you're a good. enough player, cuz they know cuz now you. you have. >> Oh, damn. I see, but that's messed up. then. >> So, you can play in the under most. actually the French and I think. Americans are also complaining about it. because they have so many So, the French. have so many. players who are born in France. >> Yeah. >> who come through the youth system, yeah, but then when it's time to declare, they go play for Ivory Coast or Senegal. And then French are like, "Oh, so we're. just developing players for other. countries." Same thing with America. >> And that's my friend, my friend, which.

they should be. >> Yes. >> If the French yo, the French are going to say, "We're. developing Yes." What a nice change, France. >> France complain Now you Now you're. >> Now you're developing Africa. What a. nice change. >> the same thing cuz uh the. not the best player, but one of the key. players for Mexico now is Brandon. Vazquez. >> Yeah. >> who helped get the red card. He plays in. the hole but he played for America. He. played for the US through the under age. system. Then when it came time for the. senior team he went like "Nah, I want to. play for my dad's country." and he. crossed over to Mexico.

>> Ah, but. >> Mhm? >> I. >> So FIFA FIFA is FIFA is very strict. >> I think I think FIFA should even change. it. I think you should just be able to. play for any country where you've held a. citizenship. >> No, but but that that that's very easy. to get around cuz you know what happens? The country the country just expedites. the papers. That's what they do. >> Yeah, but I mean if the country wants to. do that they should do that. >> No, the countries always do that. >> I I don't I don't think I don't think. >> That's what I'm saying. It's happening. now. So if Esmiro, kid from Bosnia, who. grew up by the way in America, he grew. up in America played for then he went.

like "Nah, I want to play for" He could. have made the American team actually. He's that talented. They call him the. Bosnian Lamina Mal. He's very talented. >> Damn, that's a strong compliment. Is. that what they call him? >> really really good. >> That's a strong compliment. >> Remember when you're kid of immigrants, your dad is pumping It's almost like. your dad is. pumping you with propaganda about the. old country. He's like brainwashing you. from when [laughter] you were this. little. And also mostly normally if. you're a kid of immigrants. >> Yeah. >> your dad and his entire extended family. are still what? >> Yeah, they're still. >> They're still back home.

>> They're still back home. Yeah. >> If you play for the US, if you're a. Mexican kid or if you're a kid of. Mexican immigrants and you play for the. US, it doesn't give your dad the same. >> No. >> the same like you know the same. >> No, it doesn't. >> as it would if you go back. >> Yeah, so no should it. >> Yeah, so many people many kids and and I. think that it's great. Yeah, it's a. great. You would want your kid to play If I had. a kid in America, I would want him to. play for Uganda. >> Yeah. >> Cuz Americans don't care. But my friends. back in Uganda will go like "Oh" like I. would walk in and they would greet me.

like. like Lamina's dad doesn't get the same. cloud in Spain. >> I think. >> that he would get back home. If it. happen You think about it. >> Okay, yeah yeah yeah. But yeah, in Spain. versus back home. >> Yeah, back. >> But he's he's a weird one. He's a bit of. a He's a bit of a celebrity though. >> No, no, he is. >> He's a He's an outlier for that. argument, I think. >> Yes, but I'm saying you imagine if your. kid was holding Morocco. on his back on it on his back. If he was. leading Morocco. you go back home and you He would He. would be Okay, here's how I'll put it. If Lamine's dad.

If Lamine was playing for Morocco, Lamine's dad would have. the number of the Moroccan king. on speed dial. >> [laughter]. >> He doesn't have the number of the. Spanish king, if that makes sense. If. your kid is that good. in your home country, you're. They see you as. >> yeah. No, they do. >> That's That's That's That's the That's. the thing that drove Messi. Cuz Messi. Spain really reached out. He spent all his time in La Masia from. They really reached out and they gave. him a proposal. They were like, "Hey, you'll still be playing with Xavi,

you'll still be playing with" And Messi. went [clears throat] like, "No.". >> Argentina though. >> Yes, because he. >> Yeah, but he but he had a legacy that he. could look forward to upholding. I'm. more I'm more impressed. by the people who make that decision, the Messi decision, for the non-legacy. So, I'm more impressed by a player who. chooses to play for Morocco, who chooses. to play for Curaçao, who chooses to play. for Haiti, who chooses to play for I'm. more impressed by those players because. they don't have a legacy to look back. to. >> What do you mean by legacy by the. country not backing.

>> Messi Messi can see a future where. Argentina wins a World Cup with him. Does that make sense? >> Counter point. When Messi. chooses Argentina over Spain and then he. has to watch Spain win the 2010 World. Cup. >> I hear you, but. >> Yes. >> but let's even when they were at their. worst, yes, if we ask the average soccer. fan in the world, the average football. fan, do you think Argentina can win the World. Cup? What would their answer be? >> They would say yes. >> Yeah. >> But then. >> No, no, no. So, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying you I'm not saying they. were they wouldn't going through a bad. patch. >> Yes.

>> But when you know something can be. possible. >> Yes. >> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Okay, but then the counter point is. Messi retired. before Argentina won the World Cup. He. was so frustrated with Argentina. >> now he's made the decision. He's locked. in. >> Yes. No, no, but. >> Maybe he regrets it at this point, but. he's locked in. >> saying he retired. He had to un-retire. But now you imagine you're Messi, you. had the chance to play for Spain. You. turned it down. You go back to Barcelona. and you're watching Xavi win the Euros, the World Cup, and the Euros again. And in that period you haven't won. anything with Argentina. >> Yeah, that must have been That must have.

been. >> Yes, you've lost three Copa Americas. You've lost at the World Cup. Part of you is going like, "If I had. only made the right decision.". But the thing is he persisted and it. eventually and he says it. He says, "The. World Cup I won with Argentina. means [music] everything to me. If I had. won it with Spain, it would not have. meant the same.". >> [music]. >> All right, let's take a quick break to. thank our sponsor for today's episode. That's Verizon. Now, we all know the.

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person redeeming the deal. Additional. terms, conditions, and restrictions. apply. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World. Cup 2026 than Verizon. So, going back to the games, who do we think should be worried right. now. and why? Like, let's start with Brazil. From like all my Brazil friends, all my. Brazilian friends, are not like they're not comfortable. They're the In fact, I would argue. they're the least comfortable I've ever.

seen them at a World Cup. >> Yes, but that's because Brazil always. has a high bar. >> No, no, Joe. Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, but Joe. Brazil always has a high bar. You know. what Brazil also always has? >> Great players. >> A world-class squad, not just great. players. Now, they have great players, but they've got a weird roster of great. players. Their team looks like a mix of. >> It's a weird imbalance. >> the legends and the and the youth. You've got a team with Endrick and. Casemiro. You know what I mean? You've got a team. with Fabinho and Richarlison. You've got.

a team with like I genuinely when I. watch the team, I can't tell what the. team is going to be like. because it doesn't make sense to me. holistically. >> weird mix, yeah. >> Yeah, like I go I don't see how Casemiro. can play with. the other kids on the team. I don't I. don't see how do like it's a strange. one. >> you did say you you wouldn't know as a. coach what style to adopt. >> I wouldn't know. >> Yes. >> If I was setting the tactics for that. team, I go, do we run fast? >> You can't because Casemiro doesn't have. the legs. >> Do we play physical and fight for. everything? Do we play slow? Do we but.

but they like even Thiago, I still say I. said to you in the first episode of the. podcast, and I'm going to say it to you now after. the first game, why is João Pedro not here? And I know people are going to keep. telling me stories. >> No, I'll tell My My My suspicion is My. suspicion is Carlo Ancelotti had to. choose cuz also you're picking profiles, right? And you don't want competing. profiles. You want to play You want. players who give you different things. because at some point you might need. different things. So, I think Carlo. Ancelotti have at João Pedro. and he said João Pedro gives me almost. the same thing that Matheus Cunha gives.

me. Now, I have to pick. I have to pick. Okay. >> I can see that. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, I can I can I can concede that. No, I can concede that. I hear what you. mean. I hear what you mean. Should I. have two players who give me the same. thing or should I have two players? >> good at holding up the ball. Both. dribblers. Both players. Both with. channels. No, no, I can see that. I just. think João Pedro is a little more. attack-minded. >> Yes. >> in that way. I not like if I was playing. Cunha, I'm playing him slightly behind a. striker. If I'm playing João Pedro, I. can play him as a striker. But, it's.

going to be a. >> the thing is if you have to choose. between, let's say, Cunha. and Diogo Jota, they give you different. things. The reason I'm saying Brazil. should be worried is the same reason I. would say. if Barcelona lost a game and they were. they didn't they didn't dominate it. because of the high standards. So, Brazil doesn't just have to win. They have to win playing well. >> That's true. They can't They can't play. terrible football. >> Many other teams go Germany German. Germans will go like, "So long as we. win.".

The English will go like, "So long as we. win.". The Dutch and Brazilians. >> Yeah, they got to play beautiful. football. >> They go like, "We don't care if you're. winning. If you're not winning pretty, we're not happy.". >> Speaking of the English, I feel like you. and Mother Nature don't like the. English. >> I look. >> Yo, can we can we just talk Let's Let's. just break this down. Let's just break. this down. The England team. in the space of 4 days. had their kit stolen. Right, their training kit.

All stolen. I think the police. eventually recovered most of it or all. of it, but still. >> think Declan Rice's shirt was left. behind. >> [laughter]. >> So, they had. >> Even the thieves are like, "We're not. putting this on. No.". >> The England England team had the the kit. stolen. Um there was like a shooting near the. near the grounds. Like, you know, it. just became part of the news. Then, there was a tornado warning that was. issued. And so, the players had to stay. indoors and it was like a violent storm. in Kansas. You know, people were like. this is this is basically the beginning. of the Wizard of Oz.

>> yes, yes. >> That's that's that's what it sounded. like. And then on top of that, there's. one other thing that went badly for. them. What was I missing something? >> There was the kit, it's the tornado. watch. >> was it the bus? Something with the bus? >> There's something else that happened. England though is just. This this is either the like a like a. like foreshadowing. or it's it's the trials that come before. the tribulation. >> Look, I think England have the toughest. group. >> England have the toughest group? >> what I believe. >> Who do they have in the group? >> They're playing Ghana.

>> Ghana? >> They're playing Croatia and they're. playing Panama. >> But they're playing Panama last. So, if. they lose their first opening games, they're out almost. Cuz you would want to start with Panama, maybe get three points on the board. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Then you can relax. >> Yeah, get confidence. >> But their. first two games are so tough. Maybe not. tough, they're so tricky. Anything could. happen. >> happen. >> If Ghana turns up and if and if Croatia. turns up, Croatia has had England's. number. for some time. >> Yeah. >> So, for me.

I think. look. When you think for me when you tell me. they've had all these disasters. part of me just goes like, well, these. are the chickens coming home to roost. because of colonialism. When you talk about when you talk about. their kits being stolen. >> [laughter]. >> I'm like, no, that's reparations being. taken back. But look The it's it's almost hard to. because of what they did. I'm like, yeah, you know, this yeah, this is the. English getting their comeuppance. >> I I think this is just the English. getting a a moment of of testing before.

before they receive their reward. Mark. my words. You remember these. conversations. The English are going to. do way better than you think. >> I think the I think the English are. going to do way better than you think. >> going to make a deep run. I think. >> Way. >> But but I think. >> Way way way better than you think. >> going to end in a spectacular collapse. >> Oh, I had I I wrote down a things I. wanted to make sure we get to. Um. who do you think's got the best player. story so far at the World Cup? >> Without a doubt, Raul Jimenez for me. >> Not Ayub Buwadi? >> Not Ayub Buwadi. Not Not at all. Raul.

Jimenez should be playing football. >> What do you mean? >> be playing football. Remember he got a. fracture with his when he had a. collision with the keeper and then he. fractured his head. Eight months out. They had to do like things with He wore. a. >> He's still wearing it? >> Yeah. Raul Jimenez has been out for the. longest time. He shouldn't be playing. football. He was not supposed to be. playing football and then he scored his. first goal for the World Cup. He was. crying. He was in tears. So for me. that's. the most heartwarming story because it. shows you the redemptive power of. sports. >> It really does. Uh.

best goalkeeper moment for me, I'm going to pick. um. Japan's goalkeeper, Suzuki. I know they. conceded two goals against the Dutch, >> They were unstoppable. >> but I think he was phenomenal. >> unstoppable. You couldn't blame him for. either. By the way, he had a tough time. He's also like another not as big as. Raul Jimenez, but his story is. redemptive cuz he had a tough tough. Asian Cup when he first his debut in a. big tournament, he was criticized. He. had a tough He had a tough time. And. everyone was going like, "Oh, he.

shouldn't be playing for Japan." And all. of these and you know, he. he and then he he had a wrist injury at. some point. >> Oh, damn. >> and then he has bounced back, but it was. a tough for me. It was a baptism of fire. when he first started in this big. tournament for Japan. >> Yeah. >> Many other keepers could have been. broken cuz if the whole It's a different. thing when you're playing for a club cuz. then it's just your club fans on top of. you. But when the entire country is. questioning your inclusion in the team. and. you're a black player in Japan. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> and you still have the character to come.

back from that and play the way you. played, I think yeah, I think that's a. beautiful story. >> It was phenomenal. Best celebration, I mean for me easily. Quinones from Mexico. >> Ooh. >> To to do. >> That was yeah. >> the South African celebration from 2010. when they scored against Mexico. He. wasn't even there. But not just to do it, to do it. perfectly. >> Bena, let me ask, do you think was it. trolling or was he celebrating. Siphiwe Tshabalala? >> No, I think he's trolling. Obviously. he's trolling.

>> You don't think he's celebrating cuz. that was an iconic It was an iconic. iconic celebration. >> but but he's doing it against the same. team that scored against them. >> And he also scored the opening goal. >> And I think and I think it's because. they they they they think of the stories. and the videos and everyone kept on. playing that over and over again. And it was this idea that's haunting. Mexico. Oh, here comes South Africa. again and remember the goal they scored. against you and it was this whole thing. But what I was impressed by was the fact. that for him to practice the dance. >> You need to know that you're going to. score. Yes. >> believed.

>> But he's black. I'll give it to him. I. wouldn't call it You know what? I'll say. he remixed. I'll say he remixed. Tshabalala celebration. >> If he just knew it. If he just knew it. >> Yeah. >> It was in his bones. >> the rhythm. Come on, cuz he did it. The. thing you just said, he did it. perfectly. >> That's hilarious. >> funny because no other Mexican player. joined him. Like cuz they didn't have. the moves. But no, he's black. I'll give. it to him. Come on. He did. >> And I know this is a. I know this is a World Cup podcast, but. I feel like part of the World Cup like a. a storyline that's been adopted into the. World Cup just because of where we are.

has been the New York Knicks. It. I know this sounds weird, but it felt. like one of the World Cup games. >> Yes. >> It like it just felt like it it part of. the euphoria because you had um. New York City packed packed packed. packed with Moroccan fans, packed with. Brazilian fans, and packed with New York. Knicks fans. >> The funny thing about that is Brazil. played Morocco. >> believing that they were going to win. >> And all of them very passionate. And all. of them dominating every space they come.

into. The funny thing about that is. I don't come from a basketball country. Yeah. But the thing is when you're in. New York and New York is winning, it's. very infectious. Very contagious. The. energy in New York is, as you said, people are friendlier. Everyone's It's. just It just feels And so when Brazil. was playing Morocco, which is supposed. to to be a huge big game, it felt like a curtain-raiser. for the Knicks game later that night. >> It actually did. It literally did feel. like that. Yeah. And and I think in many.

ways it also felt like a curtain-raiser. for. um the specter of of. of like triumph in the face of everyone. saying it was impossible. I know Morocco. didn't win, but. >> The way they played, they played Brazil. off the park. Yes. >> I mean they they they outplayed Brazil. It didn't feel like By the way, it was I. was I was surprised that Vinícius got. man of the match. >> Yes, it should have been Ayew. >> I was really surprised. >> also I feel like. when you score a goal, normally that's.

>> Yeah, they give you like a little rating. boost, don't they? >> I feel like I mean if you like Ayew. quality will be appreciated by the. purists. >> Okay. It's It's a lot harder to. appreciate. >> when you see 16 of 16 passes completed. in the attacking third except or you. know, attacking half or take on. The way. he turned under pressure, purists love. that stuff. >> Yeah. >> But. when you're doing like a poll, when. you're choosing the man of the match, normally it's a popular choice. You have. to either have scored or assisted. Cuz. people look at those stats. They don't. look at the intangibles that actually.

lay the foundation. Yes. >> guess Brunson then he was always going. to win. >> he scored. OG Anunoby, some people would argue. had. better impact or had more impact on the. Knicks winning. Especially in game four. >> I don't know. I I'm not even going to. claim to know basketball like that. But. it felt like one of the most like. balanced teams. And what I mean by that. is it felt like you didn't you didn't. know how the house was going to be. built, but every player was bringing a. certain amount of bricks. >> Yes, but but OG Anunoby, as you said,

yes, he was he was phenomenal. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yo. Yeah, but then again like Hart has had. some of the most amazing performances. He like his his steals, his blocks.

blew the layup in that game. Yes, he had a he had a meltdown. One. thing I He saw his life flash before his. eyes. One thing I I appreciate in all. sports is. the feeling a player gets when they when. they. when it looks like they've thrown it all. away. Yes. Hart is one of the smartest. He's got to be the smartest diligent. workers on a team. When he missed that. layup. in game five. to take the lead for the for the Knicks.

against the Spurs. You could see he was. going, "I've thrown it all away." Do you. know what I think has happened these. days as well? Yeah. When a player does that, they see in their minds cuz players are. so online, Yeah, they're going to be like, "I'm. going to become a meme now." Yes. It's. like this is it. This is going to Did. you see Larry David's reaction by the. way? To what? When Hart blew the layup. It was like straight out of Curb. I. didn't see it. He like he almost. collapsed. He almost like You should see. it. It's so funny. He almost died. Like. Larry David was this close. Like if you.

see cuz he expects and then and then you. see him just like people had to hold him. up. That's how short he was. But I'm. saying that every Nick contributed. Even. the players off the bench contributed. But for me, Anunoby's influence on that. game. Remember Anunoby actually is also. the one who threw the inbound pass He. did. and then he ran all the way just. the heart and the desire at that time in. the game. It wasn't the beginning. moments. This was towards the end of the. game. You've been running back and. forth. They had and desire for you to.

run and get that put back and actually. put it back in his. his people were debating him and who is. the finals MVP because those are Obi. really good. I think I think he averaged. around 22 points. Uh Brunson averaged. 24, but remember Brunson takes double. the shots that Obi gets. But I think. Brunson when he scores 42 in a decider, you can't look past him. >> My man, you know what I also can't look. past? New York City itself. You know, people always. say as a platitude, "Oh, New York, the. greatest city in the world. New York is". I don't know many cities in the world.

where you could have a game five of a. historic NBA championship, also have a World Cup match between. Brazil and Morocco, have all of that happening at the same. time as like a Puerto Rican Day Parade, >> Oh, yes. >> have all of that happening, streets. packed. People You know, some people. were just going out for dinner that. night as well. >> is that all is packed. >> Yeah, some people in New York didn't. even know all these other things were. happening. The city is chaos. People are. in the streets cheering, climbing on top. of things. Some people are breaking.

things. You name it. And the next morning, the city's still there. like it never happened. I genuinely was. like, "Yo, nothing. New York used to have I don't know if. you were ever around in New York um. around Hurricane Sandy. >> Oh, yeah. >> They they No, I missed it. >> They had like the song that they that. they put out and it was like, "We are. stronger than the storm." And they're. like, "We're stronger than the storm.". And I remember watching that and I was. like, "No, guys, come on. What do you. mean you're stronger than this? Yo, seeing New York and I was like, okay,

no, New York is New York is. like it's impenetrable. It doesn't. matter what it is.". >> people complaining going like, "Why. would FIFA. schedule that game?" Cuz we're going to. call the NBA playoff schedule we knew, but why would FIFA cuz it would be a. such a logistical nightmare. for the city hosting like all these. and New York kind of but I remember New. York is so resilient. New York is a city. that it bounced back after 9/11. Many. other cities would never bounce back. >> York yo, New York. New York is strong.

like New York now I'm excited for the. final cuz cuz I want to see I want to. see what a New York final is going to be. but we're still we're still ways away. from a final. >> what New Jersey people are saying? >> What are they saying? >> happening in New York. I don't know why. New York keeps claiming this New York. It's in Jersey. The MetLife is in. Jersey. >> I mean the where the game is played and. where the fans are totally different. >> Fans are like no we don't want to spend. our time. >> Yeah, I mean you know New Jersey they're. like people from New Jersey. New Jersey. can say what it wants but it's like like. what is it? New Jersey is the liminal. space of this World Cup. I mean like you.

know what I mean? They can say what they. want but like let's ask the fans. I'm. willing to bet money if you go to any. fan. who went to any of these games or is. going to any of the games, ask them. where they were. I'll give you $10 for every person who. says they were in New Jersey. >> No, even people in New Jersey don't want. to stay in New Jersey. >> [laughter]. >> I had a friend I had a friend if you're. not careful we'll be we'll. >> be we'll be as hated by Wembanyama but. in New Jersey only. >> a friend invite me back to the I had a. friend he had a party and he told me to. invited me to New Jersey and I went like. sorry but I can't make it because if I.

came to your party in New Jersey even. Ugandans would go like dude. you'd rather just come back to Uganda. Why would you go to New Jersey? >> [laughter]. >> Mhm? Why would you leave Uganda and go. to New Jersey? But the thing the thing I. noticed about New York sports fans love. this they love we love underdog stories. right? We love Morocco making a run. We. love but the thing that New York taught. me and sometimes you take it for granted. is sometimes it's good for the sport. for a big team with a big passionate. base with big fans to win because what. New York has done.

>> Sometimes always I argue. >> No but sometimes you like Greece winning. 2004. but I'm saying that the the the the the. publicity and the and the the the. contagious energy around New York. You. know you know the celebrities turning. up. Sometimes the sport needs that. Sometimes let me put it like this. sometimes David needs to whoop Goliath I. rather Goliath needs to whoop needs to. whoop David's ass. >> Yes, sometimes. >> Yeah, but I argue this wasn't I don't. think that this was I don't think this. was Goliath beating David. I think it's. the other way around. >> Okay, let's put it let's go with this.

Sometimes. the fans of David like they get to such. a point like David's fans get so big. that David needs to win the fight cuz I. argue that the Knicks weren't Goliath in. this fight. >> no, but when you look at the way. basketball. >> No, I know what you mean. >> big market teams and small market teams. >> So San Antonio San Antonio but the. Knicks the Knicks were like yo people. said people said whoever wins the game. between OKC and Spurs is going on to win. this thing. >> Yes, but what I'm saying is when you. look at the teams when they talk about.

So when they talk about big market teams. >> I hear you. >> LA New York. >> they were like a. they were small team in a big market and. now they've become the biggest team in. the biggest market. >> No, cuz cuz the thing is the amount of. hype cuz we've seen OKC win we've seen. Denver Nuggets win we've seen the. Milwaukee Bucks win we never saw this. kind of hype. Cuz I'll tell you this. Taylor Swift say what you will about her. she's not going to Wisconsin to watch. the Bucks. She's not going to Oklahoma. City to watch however good they are. she's not going to watch the Thunder. She's not going to Denver to watch the.

Nuggets. >> Yeah, and but I mean to be fair to her. she's she's also like lived in New York. so people will make people were also. making it like she just popped out of. nowhere. I understand where they were. coming from cuz I can imagine if you. were a Knicks fan even if you were a. celebrity. >> Yes. >> like if you were a celebrity who is. below Taylor Swift which is almost all. celebrities and you couldn't get into. that game and then you see Taylor Swift. dancing up there with her friends and. you're like which other games where was. she. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> were blowing easy. you know what I mean? Year after year. where was I can see why people were. angry but at least. >> for me it's not just her Timothy.

Chalamet currently the biggest movie. star in the world. >> Timothy yo yo yo yo yo yo. >> I mean he's a fan of the Knicks. >> Yo, fan is an understatement. >> Yes. >> Yo. >> But I'm saying a small market team like. OKC doesn't have a Timothy Chalamet. A. small of a market team like the Denver. Nuggets don't have to So Timothy. Chalamet helps the sport go from the. back pages. to pop culture. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Taylor Swift, all these people. >> Okay, I see what you're saying then. You're saying it's it's good for the. sport. >> Jack Nicholson there. >> that pop it into pop. I argue that's. what Team USA did. So for me, the the.

biggest reason I was happy for Team USA. to win is because the stadium had Tom. Cruise, David Beckham, Leonardo. DiCaprio, Justin Bieber, Hailey Bieber, IShowSpeed, Draymond Green, like because. of that, I was happy for America, for. Americans, for the sport, for the global. spectacle of it all. So that it also. didn't become like a side show. >> Yes. >> I don't want people to come and be like, is this the soccer you guys are talking. about? It was like, oh, this thing is real and we have a real. team and we have a real moment. That's.

That's what I enjoyed about it. >> So for me, that's why I say you always. need in a way the big and I know sports. fans don't like it, but it's almost like. if you want sport to grow and if you. want to sport transcend sports, because. you know you know a sport doesn't grow. if just a die-hard fan. >> Right, right, right. >> If you want it to go mainstream, you. want it to cross over from the back. pages to TMZ. You want to see US You. want to see Pulisic. and all those guys being like. harassed by the TMZ reporter. >> You know You know what I'm just thinking. about now? Essentially, this is what.

you're saying. In order for David's victory to be to. mean something over Goliath, we need. Goliath to be Goliath. >> Yes. >> Fundamentally, that's what you're. saying. >> Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. >> Because if Goliath doesn't become. Goliath, then David just hit some random. dude with a stone in the middle of his. head and it's not a story. So we need. Goliaths to be made so that the. so that the Davids can fell them. >> I like how you went there. >> It's the same with Brazil. If you don't. you don't have that. >> If David If David hit some random dude. >> Yeah, if David just hit some random dude. with a stone, it's like, all right, do.

you hear what David did? >> He didn't be a problem. >> Yeah, he he hit another guy with a. stone. Man, that guy needs to put that. slingshot away, man. >> He just Yes. >> He's He's a. Is that thing licensed? >> He needs to hit Goliath. Yes. >> him to stand out. Yes. >> But for Goliath to be a thing, Goliath. has to be Goliath. You know what I mean? The reigning champion of the world. >> Which game are you most excited for this. week? >> I'm excited for the one we're going to. cover first of all tomorrow. Uh right now, wait, the one the one. we're going to cover France-Senegal. >> Yeah. >> I love that game. >> That's big. >> That game has a history. 2002 World Cup. >> That's big. >> Senegal shocks France.

And France get France had won the World. Cup in 1998. >> Yeah. >> Senegal shocks them and that set the. tone cuz France didn't make it out of. the group. Even with Zidane. Yes, an. injured Zidane, but they still didn't. make it out. And that by the. kick-started this trend where. whichever team had won the World Cup. before didn't make it to the next World. Cup. So, France didn't make it to the. next World And so, for me this game has. lots of history. It has lots of colonial. history as well. Cuz Senegal and France, of course, they have their colonial. ties. And I think Senegal is a good.

team. I think Senegal is good enough. with Sadio Mané and all their. >> Right. >> his supporting cast, they're such a good. team that they will give France a game. Cuz your France are favorites. >> Yeah, yeah. >> to win the World Cup, but this is going. to be their first huge huge test cuz. they lost their last game against Ivory. Coast. >> Yep, which was a massive moment. >> Yes, which also had like the colonial. history. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Massive moment. >> me this is going to be. a good test of where France are. >> I don't want to call them scandals, but. the stories around the game. >> Mhm. >> You know, there's been like a few of. them. One. >> Mhm.

>> You've seen all of these press. conferences where reporters are trying. to speak to the players in Spanish. >> Yes. >> And the players are trying to respond in. Spanish. >> Mhm. >> And then the FIFA representatives are. saying no, you only speak in English. But the irony of it is they're saying. you can only speak in English because. that's the only language it can be. translated from. >> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> So, it seems like they just didn't. account for the fact that many of the. players only speak. >> Spanish. Yes. >> It's one of the most spoken languages in. football specifically. >> But I think FIFA likes encouraging. English as the standard language because. >> Yeah, there's a difference between. encouraging and dictating.

>> But what's FIFA if not a dictatorship? FIFA is not a democracy, I'll tell you. that. FIFA is not a democracy. They've. been. >> [snorts]. >> I think FIFA Look, >> the other thing has been like the all. the players uh the Senegalese fans Like, do you think it'll affect the team them. not having them not having their fans. there? >> I think you need your fans, but I also. think when you're playing at a at a. World Cup, if you need extra motivation, then you shouldn't be at the World Cup. Just being at the World Cup. >> Yeah, but. >> It's almost like asking someone uh.

should your. wedding have like cheerleaders? No, if. you're getting married, you should want. to get married. If you want extras to. get married, then maybe you shouldn't be. getting married. >> No, no, no, bro. If none of your family. come to your wedding, you might start to. doubt whether or not you should be. having that wedding. There's just going to be moments. >> You're leaving your family though. >> There's just going to be moments when. you're standing up there and then. everyone cheers for your bride and then. nobody cheers for you and you're going. to be like, should I be here? [laughter]. Do I deserve to be here in this moment? >> You always need your supporters, but. >> Look at look at the Scottish fans. I. argue. >> yeah, no, you're right. >> argued the world the ball into the net.

in that game. They like they like sucked. it in. >> They turn every city they go to. >> Even Japan, the Japanese fans I think. are part of the reason that like they. they didn't get tense against the. Netherlands. They carried on singing, they carried on drumming away. I think. it's it's part of the reason. As as. always, Joe, this has been a pleasure, my [music] friend. >> Oh, man, anytime we have talk soccer, you know me, we could talk for hours, by. the way. >> And we will. We could talk for many more. hours coming. We have many more, but. let's save it let's save it for then. [music] For now, for now, my friend, it's full time.

I'll see you I'll see [music] you at the. next one. >> No, it's always fun. It's always a. pleasure. This was fun. >> Thank you again so much to the sponsor. of today's episode, Verizon. They've. given their customers unmatched access. to the FIFA World Cup 2026, including. thousands of free tickets, people, meet. and greets with soccer legends, and the. once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to watch. a portion of the FIFA World Cup from the.

pitch. From the pitch. All just for. being a Verizon customer. If you're not. with Verizon, no sweats. Stop by a. Verizon store to get in on the action. and learn about their amazing offers for. new customers. >> What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by. Day Zero Productions in partnership with. SiriusXM. The show is executive produced. by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess. [music] Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our.

producer. Our development researcher is. Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing, and. mastering by Hannes Brown. [music]. Random other stuff by Ryan Hardwood. Thank you so much for listening. Join me. [music] next week for another episode of. What Now. >> [music].