Meet Eugene Khoza – One of My Favorite People | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

So what made you, decide to go into podcasting? Decide to go into a. Is that your podcast? Is that your podcast voice? No, I own a podcast. I'm gonna have to edit around all of Eugene's V-neck. Okay. Because how do you do? How do you do subtitles on the podcast. Any V-neck that you say, I'm going to just throw in an American guy's voice there. So you'd be like. But Epstein. And then instead of, like, big guy inside or something, that'll be like Epstein.

He did it. And then I'll just tell. I'm just going to tell the audience every time you hear this voice. He. He spoke in another language, and I didn't want to lose the authenticity of the conversation. So I didn't. I can edits around it. There you go. But I had. That's funny. Yeah, but I because you have to do subtitles. But I want you to know that it's subtitles. Yeah. What? I mean, you see me like.

This is what now. with Trevor Noah. Whenever you want more to just. click. Just to do something natural.

Hey. Oh. Would you like some more? Oh. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah. He he. Oh, yeah. This is awkward, but how how you start a conversation. It's the worst part of it. That's the worst. But why don't we start with a prayer? Because this is actually why our grandmother started meetings with prayers. Oh, yeah. The awkwardness cause to cut the awkwardness. Because now you. You can't just come together and be like, your son has a drug problem. and your husband is cheating. If you start with a prayer, then it opens. But it was also a power move because everyone here will know whose house.

This is because you can lead a prayer. You can lead up, read somebody else's. So when you pray, when you pray in a South African household, right? And first of all, like, I don't know if your grandmother did this, my grandmother used to give her address and she used to give like wishes from. and her name is not really my my grandmother would do that. She'd be like, but we just didn't a Frances Noah. And then she'd be like. Like, send for the location. Yeah. It's you who you are, where you from? What? And I remember asked to once I was like, why are you doing this?

And then she was like, why do I assume he like, you know, she said, hi, she's a I, I must just assume that God is always listening to me, should I? Yeah. Yeah, that's not fair. And if you think about it, most South African. like prayer in general I think is very like considerate of God. It's very much like we know that you're doing stuff. and we know that, like, you know what I mean? Yeah. But I, I think because of missionaries, we never, as black people thought that God is with us. God was brought to us. So we always have to identify.

ourselves and also, separate ourselves from the nonbelievers. It's funny now that you say the missionary thing. Yeah, I actually think a lot of that was real. Is that like, because I always think about this, I get, like, imagine being. a black person anywhere on the continent, right? These people come with religion, right? And then they tell you that the reason things are going bad in. your life is because you don't have this, this God in particular, because there was religion. Okay?

There are different religions all over the continent, all over South America, all over these places. They would force, you know, the native people that they would force them. to buy goods from them that nobody else wanted to buy at predetermined prices. They would say. they would do the work of like donkeys and mules and, and all of that stuff. But the main thing was they also came in with religion. So everywhere in the world I can see this, this, this vibe where people have come in with religion saying to you, hey, all these bad things that are happening to you, or because you don't worship God.

And then it must have been weird because the natives are like, you are the bad thing that's happening to us. They're like, yes, exactly. If you had prayed and the have penicillin, this wouldn't be happening to you. But I thought you didn't need penicillin because you can pray. And this is all put on clothes. Good kids. I tell me. But also churches in the township. That's where you would see family structure.

Yes. That's where you'd see people dressed up nicely. Because parents used to leave very early. So you never see them wearing nice clothes except for on a Sunday. Yeah. And then also cars as well. You'd see your principal or the local doctor. They would park their cars. So church has always been aspirational. And I don't think anything has changed from back in the day to now. And also as missionaries offered people to go to university. Nelson Mandela was that beneficiary. So a lot of people that went. and played cricket and went to school because of churches. So a lot of people are very conflicted when it comes to religion.

And this. Yeah, and this topic, because somehow they benefited from it. Now they can. separate themselves from the lies of it as well and the oppression of it as well. But people in other countries who are not part of the system. of going to that, because if you think of a church, such a small building for a big community, so it's already on its, by merit, it already is an exclusive club of people, the believers there, the believers that are believing in proxy, the believers that are dedicated and coming in, giving money and dressing up and showing up the place.

for people to gather once a week to come and say what they need to say. So know the organization of it ended for us when church ended, but for people in power, it kept on continuing the whole week through. Because people run the church, run the children, have other jobs. The believers have other jobs. Yeah, the Pope job is to run the church. Yes, the other ones, for them to go and collect money. and come back and give it back to the Pope. I'm conflicted when it comes to church because I think you love church. I yeah, I love churches, I don't love church.

No, no, no. But I so, you know, when I look at what we experiencing in the world today. There's no denying that church and religion is responsible for a lot of it. I mean, you let neighbor name it and label it right? Pain the conflict. What what what what what what what right. Birth control. You name it, whatever. But when I look at what people's lives have become, I can't help but wonder how much worse it's going to get when church falls away. So go to any thriving European country.

Church is gone now. When I was in the Netherlands, all the churches. that used to be churches and the Airbnbs now, yeah, they've just turned into other things really. Yeah. They've, they've, they've, they've. it's like a, there's a restaurant or this is a. something, it's just it's not a church. The cathedrals are gone. No, no, it's all it's not a church. Churches are dying. In fact, funny enough, in the US, you know, that story, the, you know, when Trump was saying like, hey, the Haitians, they're eating dog, they're eating cats, that whole thing. They. So they went to that part of Ohio and they interviewed people.

and not only were they saying that the Haitian immigrants. have revitalized the local economy, they they went to the church. And then the pastor said the church was about to die. He said the church was dead. And now because of the Haitians, the church is a thing again, and it exists. And they come there and they use it, and there's a congregation. And now the church makes money and they can be a community hub again, like it's. So that's why I say I'm conflicted when it comes to church, because I think it's easy for us to to dismiss things in general in life. Like we always want to say good, bad, yes.

But to your point, I can't think of. I can't think of a place that. is responsible for more community and connection. than a church, because a church you didn't need money to come to it. As we live in a world where more and more clubs are predetermined, you know, like race, class, all these things, religion was one of the few things where you could opt in. You could walk in off the street and say, I want to be part of your club. And the person would be like, yeah, you're part of the club. No. Like, where do people connect for free with other humans on the internet?

Yeah, but that's not connecting. That 100% is connecting brothers, not connecting. You know how you mentioned, you know, collecting. you can the internet connecting. Yes. Okay. What level of connection and how many times I spoken to you on WhatsApp, which has five. But imagine if we met on WhatsApp, it wouldn't have the same. No, I'm saying if we met on WhatsApp, but we have a couple of times met. I'm saying if I were not on WhatsApp, our initial introduction. as human beings was on WhatsApp, it wouldn't be. This would be a video call right now.

If we had met on WhatsApp. This guy. I think. where religion and church is concerned, and I hear your point. about it, almost feels like as humans we need structure. Yeah. And I remember days when my parents were not at home. Well, my dad was always not at home, but. when my mom was not at home, I would have the most amount of fun. When I was the youngest, I used to think, I need this woman here, but as soon as she said, there's food in the fridge, you know where the TV remote is.

Have a good time and I'm going to be gone for eight hours. I was like, can you leave the overtime there? Because in my world, that's. when I realized I don't actually need someone to tell me what to do. I learned that very early. So some people need structure and some people don't. But I think also people have deep and steeped in religion, have abdicated. their responsibility to be good people to someone else, to a higher power. So when they go to a pastor, yeah, when they go to, they are reverent. And when they speak to God on their behalf,

they feel like they don't have to be good people. They can always ask for forgiveness. But I feel like if people who go to church took that same mentality that they have. for that hour and a half at church. and actually spread around in real life every day, day to day, the world would be a better place. because I think love should be preached more than religion. I don't think someone should tell us. Jesus died on the cross for all of us to be here and then and there. Yeah. Look, I don't think you're wrong, but stories help. Like, stories just help.

So if you say to somebody, sacrifice is the most powerful thing you can do. So was like, okay, what do you mean by that? I think there's something really powerful in someone saying, hey, man, this stranger that you don't know died for you and your sins. There's a deep gratitude that comes with that. Yeah, but the Bible is is a big book of suffering. Yeah. It's always my life is a big book of suffering, you see. So it's all about someone did something and then found redemption. Someone did something and and found a yes. There's never someone just having a good time. There's lots of people having a good time in the Bible who?

Lot's wife tending to salt. Job who looked back to look back, whose investments were tarnished. And then he had two who showed me one person in the Bible. Had a good time, who was someone who, when the pages of the veil people were kicked out of Eden, someone was asked. they were having a good time before that kicked out of Eden. Yeah. Imagine having a great. Someone had to go. It's me. Yes, but. Okay. So what are you saying? You want the Bible to show me, then a TV show where nobody said. Yeah, but this is. This is entertainment. Where the good times in the Bible know there's lots of good times. Where.

there's lots of good times. There's lots of good times. King David had good times. Until what happened? Until he died. What did King David do? Well, I mean, he killed Goliath. That was his journey of becoming David the King. So it was a white. It was a wise king. Yes. He was a white king. But then he also he was the one who killed the guys. The woman's husband. Right. So he was having a war and put him in the artillery. Yes, but he was different. But he was having. Was the wife having a good time? Well, did the husband have a good did the extended family?

Jean, if you know the cover. Okay. Now, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Which TV show has people having a good time? The apprentice I'm joking. No, but seriously, we have a good time. I hear what you're saying. I mean, like, if you're telling stories, there is no story that is worth listening to. If it's just like I went there, what I wanted to happen. Happened? Yes. And then I came back and everything is great. That's not a story. So then every sermon in church, obviously picking from this book, and they decide, maybe we want a preacher by job. Yes, that's why we have job stuff.

And then how's you suffering right now? And how you can end your own suffering by doing what? By putting it away. Okay, so job did not pray away. So I feel like God said to him, who are you to question me? But I feel like here what's happening is. I feel like you trying to get me now to defend religion. No no no, no, not at all. But I'm trying to get you to defend the characters. No, in the book of us, I mean, so what? I'm. But it's fine. What I'm saying is, it doesn't matter what the book is, okay? Even if we're talking about the Wizard of Oz, right? I don't mean nobody really.

wants me out. I don't need I don't need Dorothy to be real. I don't need the Tin Man to be real. Right? I don't need the Lions. But these are the concepts. The wicked witch of the West. Yeah. If someone wrote me a textbook about courage, about like decency, about like, Then what? But you remember it. When it's a story, you connect to a differently. You understand that Dorothy goes on a journey, you get. I'm saying, like, all of these characters go on a journey. And so I think I hear what you're saying, and I agree, in a perfect world, everyone would be able to do for themselves.

what they require another to do for them. But I don't think that's fundamentally what makes us human. I think humans need that. so that. you, as Eugene, may not need somebody to tell you what to do. Maybe in one or some aspects of your life, but then not in all. Yeah, but then there will be some places where you find there's a deep reward. that comes from somebody guiding you. And that that for me, is the good of churches. Yeah. So like when a church, when a church is run. Well, yes. When a church is not a leader. Yeah. When a church is not like.

the minister having a private jet and the congregation starving. I'm saying when a church is run, well, it really just is a community center. where people come together, they share like an idea of problems, and they talk about how there's something on the other side. But yeah, it's group counseling. Yeah, it's group. So why are you being so difficult when you know what it is? And you did the podcast when. when you see what you just did. No, you just did the Bible to me. You could have just come in and made a good times. But you brought suffering.

You brought strife, you brought pain. Why did you do that? Yeah. To my left trumped my theft. Man, I wanted to do them both at the same time. Oh, man. 000 my sunburn. Yeah. Oh well that's what you get. Oh, man. I'm. I'm burned. What are you doing? I forgot that I could get this burnt. What were you playing? Think pickleball.

Any difference between pickleball and. Because I've heard you speak. Oh, you and I went to go play pickleball for the first time. Yeah. Paddle board. Now wet myself in the face. That's the problem with pickleball is people hit themselves. So. Okay, well, it's a thing. And so, yeah, you tell me this that day, I didn't know until you started. You were the first person who let me know. This was a night at a trend. Okay. You know what I mean. So, paddle ball is squash mixed with tennis, and then pickleball, I would say, is table tennis mixed with tennis? So is the racket smaller now? The racket is just different. It's like a flat paddle type thing.

It's like it's like a piece of polycarbonate or something. I don't know, it's like a big it's like a big table tennis ball. So that's what the similarities come in. Yeah, I would say the ball and the ball. and the ball like the way it like sounds, the way it moves. Sounds. Yeah. Because it does like a. Oh okay. So when it, when it hits the. Yeah. But the paddle has more of like a poop poop poop poop poop poop. Okay. By the way, if you want to buy my new album, Sounds of Racket Sports, you can follow it. You can find the link in the description where you you play.

We playing pickleball. So we were playing this. The only. The only time that. people could come together with their schedules was at like 1011. And then the UV index was ten. I just learned about the UV index by the way is so the UV index was 1010. Yeah. And then I just got like a burn around my, you know, so the people that you are playing with, there were only three at around ten in the morning. Yeah. It just happened to be normally we play like when the sun is setting.

to all of your friends that you play. People both have jobs. Yes. What do they do? What's the you want? Everyone's job. The one who are there? Pickleball. There's a lot of people you want everyone's jobs. Meaning someone works in marketing. Another person works in, I don't know, the finance industry. Another person's unemployed. Another person works in, advertising. Another person works in, I don't know, trading or something. Another person works on radio. Another person is a lawyer. Now, how much?

How famous I go with this gag. How many? Ten or so. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. So you all coordinated. Those are. Yeah. You must come and join. You'd love it and you'd love it. Do you find it weird when you, hang around with. Because you know how you grew up? It's not like after we finished matric grade 12. Yeah. It's not like we went to university and started the degree, and then we went to the job market and gained experience. When you look at the friends that you have, let's say. the group that you're playing pickleball with and you like.

when you now you're a lawyer advertising whatever. Yeah, yeah. They've put in years into this career that they have. And then I'm asking someone, can I not be around? I can play tennis with my friend. and do fun things, which they actually really do enjoy. Do you do you look at your friend because it happens to me, when I still used to have friends with jobs, and I'd look at them and I go, I had the system because I don't understand how they do it. When I. When you hang out with them, how do you pretend to be normal? Because in that situation, you are not normal. You're the one.

You could have done this at six in the morning, but we're all normal. Yeah, because okay, I think of it this way. I know what you mean. Yes, but I think of the audience. How? You know how I mean it. Okay. Because I don't want to be the only guy who said it. No, because what we all know. Yes, but what do we know with friends? With friends? When is that talk about David orders, you know. Hey. Oh, contract renewals. Like, hey, smoothie. Okay, so on the one side is. being a comedian or being in any type of career. where there is no boss slash job slash firing and hiring slash.

Yes, it is weird because you're right, there's nothing that forces you to go. somewhere, per se. And there's also nothing that guarantees you anything per se. So there's no payday. When you work in comedy, there's no oh, it's that time. That's a guarantee. No, but what I mean is the is not in the is like it's when is it coming. When is it not coming. How is it coming. How is it not right. But I don't know if you think of you. as being the business in a weird way, you do become more normal.

I think when I meet, when I meet people who run their own businesses. or their own little companies or their own whatever thing. Yeah, we feel the same because you work as much as you want to work, and then your work is generally directly. tied to, you know, how much money you make generally. But just like me, you have friends that are in business. and then you have friends that are employed. Yeah. Do you feel like you could switch when you're with the two? What's the difference between the. No, actually, you know what I think one of the one of the things that freed me.

the most was the more I spend time. with professionals, the more I realized how they employed. more professionals, like, you know, like, I studied law and I studied. accounting, and I studied, like, those kinds of people. The more I realized that most people are just winging it in life. Yes. Genuinely. Yes. Genuinely, genuinely, genuinely. I think one of the worst things that ever happened to me in life is. I've gotten to meet like some world leaders. where I go like, oh boy, we're in trouble in the world. because we assume that most people's positions. come with a certain aptitude and expertise that that's applicable to everything.

But we do most people. Right? Absolutely. Like Elon Musk is a good example. Elon Musk is the richest man in the world. now like doubling, you know, what is it like 400 million or whatever. Now these days next the next person is 200 minutes. So like, yeah. Oh sorry, 400 billion. There's a million. Okay. So you're thinking small of yours, and I worry about these things when we're sitting. So Elon Musk, because of that.

And just like, wanders into every space, and is given the full latitude where nobody questions anything. So, you know, it's funny coming back to the Bible, actually, one thing I appreciate about the Bible. is that it. if you read it properly, it does show you the complexity of of the human being. Yeah, right. So in the Bible, there are good people who then go on. to do terrible things and live a like a horrible life.

You know, in the end there are bad people who do have a good moment and, and but you you see, humanity in its full complexity is what I find, if you like, read the Bible. Right. So even the person that you go is a good guy. You go like, oh, this is a good person, read the Bible. and you're going to see that parts of the story like they did. What would they son? They did what? To their mom. They did what to their neighbor? They did. Then you're like, damn, I don't know if I can. I mean, I guess King David was good, but also, how could he do this? Right? And I think some of that thinking is necessary for the world. So when when you're with your friends, with normal jobs and then you being you're.

playing pickleball and then they tell you, I have to go pick up someone at one, or when they say, my bosses say, oh, do you look away and. Do you do. when they look at a kind of car park and go, yeah, that's nice. Is there a part of you that joins into. Yeah. Do you, do you look at them and go, yeah, that's also nice. But because when you're not saying it's nice because you can't afford it.

or you can buy it or you can't have it, you probably driven it and enjoyed it. So I'm trying to figure out what what I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, because that's what I struggled with. I'm saying when people with normal job like now. when you're coming in, what's, by the way, what jobs have you had in your life? I worked at a car park. Doing what? At a car park? There was like, before there were pay as you go tickets. I introduced that system with my friends, actually, at the mall in Pretoria. So there used to be a booth at the end at the exit and entrance of every car park.

Come in, there's a boom. You come out of the booth. So I used to take the ticket and go, oh, Jim, was this your first job? First? First job? Yeah, when I was 16. So that's what I did. And so on weekends and holidays, they give you the ticket depending. I could tell. Yeah, yeah. And then the missus. How did you. 16 Rand. How did you feel when you saw your first automatic boom machine thing? The, the pay on foot ticket system when people could do it without you? Yeah, I was happy. Really? Yeah. Because I was in matric at the time. Then I was like, I don't need you. I'm out and I left.

Oh, but I was happy. So there wasn't a part of you that was like, oh no, no, no. jobs, no, no, no, I was I but one thing I always the one, the one thing that changed my life. because I worked, I started the car park at the mall. And then when I reached matric, I worked inside the mall. What did you do in? I worked at a seed store when those things still existed. City like music? Yeah. Damn. And then all your jobs are defunct. Yeah. And also, you're basically, like the grim reaper of job. Yeah. So I come in.

I'm coming to the job. You must know it's over. I'm even warning you. In the future, if you see, you didn't show up and be like, hey, guys, I'm not. Can you like. Oh, God, this industry is on its way out because you just went for, like, defunct job. Off the defunct job at another defunct job. I worked at CNA and my job was to mend the magazine counter. And then my job was to go there and tell people who are on dates. while they're waiting for the movies to start. to stop paging through the magazine that was got.

You were one of the, And then one day I quit smoking. One of those guys was that you're not allowed to read. Yes. And then you was like. I was like, no, but you're not allowed to read the magazine. You're like, but if I, if I go to another magazine, like, technically, you know, Courtney. Ellen. Okay. So that's what I did as well. So but the one day that changed my life. is where I met amid the guy that owned Brooklyn Mall, a guy called Mr.

Watson. Okay. Used to come there once a week. He drove a Jaguar. His driver drove a Jaguar, and he would sit at the back. and his wife would be in a mink coat, living in the summer. And then one day, when the entering the new system of paying foot. And then he happened to be the guy next in line. And then I helped his driver. And then I saw him and I remembered, I've seen this guy so many times. Then he asked me what my name was and I told him, ask me how old I am. I said, yeah, the gym is like, so you do this every day. I'm like, no, no, not every day, only on holidays and weekends. And I said, what do you do?

The audacity the minute just behind because he. And then he said, no, I. business but I live and I do things and I blah blah blah. Then I said, yeah, I want to do what you do. I want to come to the mall during the week for no reason. Then he said, if you wanted, you can do it. I hate it when rich people. Yeah. And then I only found out later in life when I worked inside the mall, that. that was him, because now he was inside the room. I was in the parking lot when I first met him. Yeah, I got a job inside the motel. I met him and everyone was just.

The shop owners were always happy to see him. The restaurant was always happy to see him. Then there's the guy that owned the mall, and I think that was my first real realization of what. being loved and being powerful in that combination, what it meant. He was very powerful man, but he was love. What people loved him and I think there was a side of he loved also. Yeah, that he also loved them because he didn't have to be there. And that that was a principle I took throughout my life. And I've spoken to about this before. I said only two things that I love. I only hang out with people that I like.

I don't go out to force a lesson of pain on myself, and try to test how far my patience can go with something I don't enjoy. Yeah, so I'm only at places where I feel I'm wanted. I'm also places where I feel like I want to be. And that was only from that interaction twice with this man who I've never. met again. Damn. So I like that you in a not in like a dismissive way. No, no, absolutely. But I love that you formed such a positive idea around this human being, knowing the little that you did. Yes.

Do you know what I mean? Yes. That's what I want to take away from him. No, but I'm saying, like, that's a beautiful thing. because this person you met, you met them twice. Yeah. And that's what I took from them. That's all I took from them, because I realized how much power there was. Because also I started seeing it around because obviously, if you work in a city, so people come, they do come by music, but also to buy time, so they hang around. So when I see people at the mall at 11 in the morning, I would like, what do you do that allows you to be at the mall at 11? I want to do that. So it became my quest to come to interview people while they're.

there, buying their CDs or listening. What was it about the mall that you were so, so abundant? Okay, everything is there. You don't go to the mall to in the shop. People go to the mall to look at things that they like, and they can just buy them, or they just go to hang out with people that they like. The mall was a gathering place. It was obviously obviously 20 years ago. Yeah. So you said that malls are dying now? To an extent, yeah. I go to more than like going to malls. I like walking.

It means I go to the Mall of Africa all the time. When I go to a new place, I go to a mall, to the network. I haven't gotten a chance to go to because I like Central Park. Most of us know what to do and go to churches, but I like malls. I like the feeling of abundance. I think that was my first glimpse of it. I when I was working at the mall, I knew at the end of the month what I want to do with my money. because I go to the oh no, no, I want things I see at the mall. Yeah, I knew what I was. because I wanted, I knew what headphones I was going to buy with my money. I always enjoyed the feeling of abundance, but also it taught me a certain. discipline in life that just because it's there doesn't mean you must take it.

Sometimes you just have to wait. Sometimes you can just walk past it. Sometimes the idea of being around it is even better than owning it. I could go into a a sound system store and just listen and just have a good time. I didn't have to take it home. So I would come and say, sir, please, please, you can't be listening. Please, please. So I remember me. I was reading magazines in your store, and you remember what you told me? Yeah. Do you think that came from how you grew up? Like what? What was it about, about abundance that that connected with you in that way.

because you didn't grow up with abundance? As cheesy as that sounds. It was my my mom, my mom used to. She was a nurse. She's retired now. She had four kids. I was the third one. What she would do every month end when she would come to school. and pick us up, pick one up. So we had a roster. So every month and one child gets a time to go to town with her. Oh. So yeah. But she made a point to come before break at school. Go to the principal's office. Did your mom have a call? No. Okay, no, because I was wondering why one.

And I was like, damn, it's a crazy system. Okay, so you getting in a text? Yes. That's why she has to pick this, you know? No. Also, it's what happened in town. When we get there, what's going to happen? You'll see. Okay. Sorry. And they should come to school and then talk to the principal. And then I'll be like, there is. They should come to my class. Would you know who she's coming to fetch course to me? No, but you said there's a roster and you know. No, we're not at the same school at the same time. Oh, okay. Okay. Got it, got it. So she would come, mom, like, I was doing, like a lottery system. No, no, no, you all at the same time, you just would walk. You just see a head pass those big windows.

And then they were like, Eugene, your mom is here. And I'm like, oh man, I'm Mom. Take my backpack and we're out. And then we would get high five each other in the passage. They then would get in the taxi and then off we go to town. Then when we go to town, the first thing she did was we go to the park. Then we sit at the park and then she'd say, think of anything that you want that you want us to buy today. Think of anything that you want and I'll be like a pie. Yes, dear. Yeah, I want that one. Big means I take need.

Yeah, I want that. Okay. Calm down. So you done shop then would go and buy all the things that I wanted. And then I realized how many things I passed. going to the things that I wanted that were insignificant at that point. Then you buy all the things you want, and then now we're doing groceries. Now we get to another part of it. Now she buys groceries for the whole house. Then what she used to do for all of us was she would buy a slab of chocolate. for all of us, and a tub of one liter ice cream for all of us. That was ours to do as we wanted.

So that's all she did. She showed me abundance and my mom had a concept. When it's finished, is finished. I've never struggled with loss, with loss of anything, especially finances of, you know, we've we've done things. with cars and had fun and made money and lost money and whatever. I've never struggled. with that concept at all because she taught me. when it's day to day, when it's not, it's not. But as long as you're here, you can always make it again. But just like you passed the things that you didn't want. at the store to go to things that you wanted, those things will always be there.

So I've learned abundance from her, and what she would do. is you take the rest of the month's money and give it to you and then say, when? When someone needs something, they're going to come fetch it from you. So you understand that it's there, but it's there to be you. So the value of money for us was it buys bread. It's a taxi ride for someone. It's a school thing that popped up out of nowhere. It's this. It's that someone coming to borrow money from the house. It's that. So the. the value of money was never to look at it as a thing that exists to make. you feel good. It was there to help facilitate things that just might come up in life.

Some things are small. You end up with more money. Some things are big, you end up with less money. But it was there so she would go. If it was there when it was needed, it did his job. So I look at life like that and I'm glad for those lessons in life. because I've had a chance to look around and that's always asking me about, friends with employment. I was not making fun of them at all. because I have friends like that as well who would say, I have a day off. A friend of mine on our way here called me, but I didn't answer his phone, but he sent me a text before saying, do you want to go riding the mountain tomorrow because I'm day off?

But I'm like, my life doesn't work like that. I can go ride any day. But if you have to think of it like that, that it means your world is centered like that. Yeah. So I think I think both of them come with pros and cons. No, absolutely. So as much as you can say. your life, you don't require a day off to do something. Yes. You. Yeah. But, the gift and the curse of it is that, like, freedom is hard work.

I've experienced this, let's say, on like a on a really flippant level. If I go on a vacation and everything is planned, I have a great time. I know, I know where I'm supposed to go. I know what time I have to be there. I go to the museum, then I go do this. Then I go, I'm having a great time. I'm like, oh, well, because I'm not thinking I'm not. And when you're not thinking, you don't make the wrong choice. When you don't make the wrong choice, you don't have regrets. You don't feel there's none of that. You don't go, did I do it or did I not do it right? Yeah. And I think there's a little bit of that when you are employed. versus if you are like doing your own thing,

is that when you are employed, there's a certain level of someone's. telling you what you have to do on what day, by what time. And that's liberating in many ways. It's like having a personal trainer. It's liberating. Have you ever walked into a gym and just looked at the weights? I've done you, but you never walked into a gym? Gym is kindergarten for people with regrets. Is that a no? Yes, yes. You walked into the gym.

Oh, man. So I get what you're saying. Well, I did, I did, but I didn't know that thing. But I didn't know that about your mom. Yeah, like I knew that. I knew that vibe with your mom. It's funny. I'm trying to think of, like, how I process loss, you see? So. Okay, help me understand this. Are you saying that you are not loss averse? Or are you saying that when you experience loss, you like whatever?

Yes, both of them. Yeah. I, I feel like my my upbringing, my conditioning and also the way I view. life has made me survive loss better. I, I have things that I love that I don't use. You have things that you love that you don't use. Yes. Okay. I have things that I love that I have lost. Okay. Both of those things are not with me currently. or I can choose not to be using them or with them. Doesn't make sense. Yeah, okay. And so I walk past my bike all the time in the morning I choose your motorbike.

Yes. Okay. I choose. and sometimes I can go for months without riding the one and. But it's there. But if I wake up one day and it's no longer there. Yeah, the feeling of it not being there won't be horrible to me. Oh, damn. Because I deal with it all the time. I look at my daughter, she turned 16 now. Is that grade 1116? Yes, she's turning 17th September. Oh, you know, this is probably one of the reasons I don't want kids. They just make time. Then. Yes. The only time I feel like time is moved, yes, is when I think of how old people's.

children are to your daughter, to me, is still like a five year old. Yes. Because you met me a year before she was born. Yeah. Yes. So to me, she's still. Yes. That five year old that you saw. Smart five year old. Yeah. 16. Yeah, 16. So she. I look at her and I look at how she thinks and how she processes things. And she's taught me that letting go is actually the best thing you can do. She. She's been with me obviously for ever. Yeah.

And we've lived in different places. in different houses and she's at different rooms. and she's changed schools two, three times in her life. But the way she moves around the universe amazes me all the time. She looks at life is something that's going to happen anyway. She doesn't. She looks at life as something that's going to happen. Yeah. She doesn't look at it as a thing that's going to happen if she does something. Yeah, okay. I understand what you mean. So I, I've started to look at life like that. When I see something new and exciting. I moved towards it. When I was at the parking lot.

I walked around cars because I love cars. Now, the best part of my job. When I went into that mall, I faced abundance. When it happened once a month when I was young, well, once after four months, my mom takes me to town. Now it happened every day. When I started doing comedy, I realized you can hang out with your friends and laugh all the time. We had more fun off stage than on stage. We would travel and then someone pays for it. You sleep in a hotel and someone pays for it, and then people would pay to hear me talk for 15 minutes and I would go back. And I still have fun and time with my friends and friends. So all of my jobs and my choices were all linked to my passions.

I've never had a job I hated. I've never had a job that landed me in places I didn't want to be in. I've been fortunate in that way. I'm. I'm abundant in so many. Our friendship led me to so much abundance. I got to experience being in a private jet with you. I got to experience in the penthouse, and then I got to expense those things through you, through our friendship. and our love for comedy and our pure natural gift. that was just to stand in front of people and have a good time. So when I close my checking account every night, that's what I do.

I look at the things and the people that I love. and I go, did they bring me closer to my passions and my and my joy. and things that I would have never come close to had I not had these things? And I go, your job is done. So it's not different from the wad of cash my mum had. And as you say, if someone comes in need something, take it from there. Don't ask too many questions. They came because there's a need, but they know that you have it. So I send everyone to you and I say he has it. Go get it. It's an interesting lesson to learn. So I choose to do that.

We're going to continue this conversation. right after this short break. And I know that I'm loss averse. Yes. You know, but I think I'm also lucky that I haven't lost much in life. Like, I realized this when when my grandmother died. So it was a crazy realization. Yeah. I've never lost a loved one. Was a huge loss. Like, I've genuinely never lost a loved one.

Yeah. And then I started thinking differently about everyone in my life who has. because I was like, damn, this is this for me. It was even like a it felt like a slither of a feeling and another human. being could have, because my grandmother died at the age of 96, 96, 97. So you know what I mean. In a weird way, I wasn't around for all of it. But like, you have like 100 years to prepare, you know, like we always think of a hundred is this magical number. But I was like, we knew she was going and she was healthy till the day she died. Died in her sleep. The way you dream of.

Peacefully. Peacefully gone. Go to bed. Good night everybody. See you tomorrow. Haha, joke's on you. There's no tomorrow. She was gone, you know what I mean? But the feeling that I had was like. I couldn't believe what I was experiencing. Like the grief, the loss, the all of that. So. are you saying that you don't have that experience? You don't have that feeling? I do, but I posted quicker. because I knew it was going to happen anyway, so it's my choice to live in it. So when it happens, I, I, I, I immerse myself in the feeling and then let the feeling pass through me.

So what I used to do before I would, I would let the things get stored in me. I had this huge anxiety when I was growing up of what's. going to happen to me after school, and it ruined most of my high school life. I never I literally, literally after school, like every, every day you'd go, what's happening? When when the bell rings? No, when school finishes. Oh, lexicons as a concept. Okay. High school when high school for you. When high school is done. And I look back and I have these gaps in my memory of what. fun I could have had in high school had I not had that worry. If someone had a crystal ball to show me how my life would have turned out,

I would have enjoyed every moment of that school. It was the best time I've ever had, but I was too concerned. You know, I was worried about what's going to happen. because in my world, people who did well, where people who who were educated, who were, were successful, you know, who spend time thinking they've got a job. So my chances were low and low and lower as I saw myself get to go to school. You went to school? Exactly. Then I knew that my chances of being success. Right. So when I was in a car park, I was like, I can be happy by proxy,

I'm here. I'm. I'm looking at these fancy cars. I'm around them all day long and I get paid to be here. I love music, I listen to music, and then I get paid to be here. I walk around the mall. I get paid to be here, I do comedy, I get paid to do this, I do. I chose a path. It was either do the worrying and die, or do the what I love and just live. But I chose that because it wasn't my only option. I had to learn the lessons and remember them from my mom, so I just carried them through. So you able to apply that to inanimate and yes, animate object? Yes.

So the loss of anything in anyone? Yes. Due process. It's the same. Or is there a difference or give me an example of like something. you've lost, like a thing that you loved versus a person that you've loved. And then I want to understand. like how you process it or is it the exact same way, the exact same way? Because remember, if I lose a watch that I loved. Yeah. And I wore every day. Right.

Sentimental value as I remember. the things that I did to get the watch right. I remember the place that I wore the watch in. Those memories are with me. So the watch is with me because I never wore it to my sleep. I never went to a shower. So the watch is with me. When my son passed away, I also realized in the three months. I spent the most amount of time with him. to even the day before he passed away. It was just the two of us for a few hours. The last picture I took was when we were just together. in a room. How old was he when he was 23 months? Damn.

So in in when I think of that loss, whether it's a watch or a loved one, I think of what do I miss about not having this person around? Grief is is an extended phase of regret, things that we never got to do with that person. I got to do all I could do at the time did the time that he had. Had I been absent for three months and he passed away in three months, I would have been so distraught because I would have nothing to miss. But now I miss him, the person that he was, because I knew him.

If I lose my watch, I miss my watch. I don't miss the things that the watch did for me. It's an object. It told time. Another object can tell time. If it was about a money, I can buy another one. But him I there's no more time that I could have extended with him. It ran its course. I'm not dealing with guilt of something I did wrong or something. I could have done better, but I was going. I wish we could do more. But when I look at my daughter go, we can do more. She's here now. Oh wow. Right?

If I look at her watch, I go, there is there are more watches. I can go buy another one, but I can cry for things that never happened. How do you think? How do you think that like, affected your. How you are a father with your daughter after after losing your son. She became my parent. We have this running joke and I will say in our life. before this, when she was my mom, and then now I get to pay her back. But it looks like she still has to do it again. So you are just a happy person every time. So I would look forward to the day she comes back from school.

And then she would high fived me and tell me all sorts of stuff. She had no time for my sadness. Like I would be like two days this week. Let me tell you, this would go on and on. Then it became my exercise to remember her friends names, because now I didn't want to be left behind in the store. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, this person is is laughing. She's she's smiling. And she only met her brother. the day he passed away at the hospital. When you are certified dead. Damn. So this kid who faith that what I had, I had three months of seeing him.

because he was incubated, but he couldn't have contact. because I was born too early. So obviously a child would have brought germs into the house, so he couldn't be. in the same room with her. So the only time you saw her was then. So I compared our losses. And in retrospect, you must think of it this way as a sibling, she would have had more time with him than I would have ever had as a parent. Yeah, he would have had live. So she has never had that three months with him, but I had. So what right did I have to wallow in self-pity when.

all I could be doing now is telling her about how great this person was? Because she's telling me about strangers at school and about how great they are. And here we are. And she was there teaching me how to be strong. She was my mom again with a wad of cash that year. Spent it on things that mattered. If someone comes in, ask for it. Give it to them generously. Don't ask questions, just share. She was that person for me and she still is for me. When I was walking down. Now to come into to cash, like, do you have your phone and I like yes, yes. Thank you for your lips. Yes. You have a pot bag. Yeah. So like fit check.

There's a there's a. beautiful saying I don't I don't remember where I heard this. I think, I think it was actually Esther Perot. And we're having this conversation and we're talking about like children. and life and everything. And she said one of the most beautiful things ever. She said one of the most underappreciated. aspects of having a child is that it forces you to forget yourself. Oh, yeah.

And I remember being like, well, wait, what do you mean? And she said, no. She said, you take for granted. But until you are responsible. for the life of another human being or another creature, really is. the only life you're responsible for is your own. And so you, you lived the most selfish of existences, whether you like it or not. Yes, I'm hungry, I'm tired. I'm sad. I'm happy. I want to do this. I do not want to do this. It's only when you introduce another human being or living being into your life. that you're responsible for that you have to.

If you are any type of decent person, you neglect that. No. You forego. Yeah. You forego it. It's a better word. Yeah. You forego. It's it's a different type of meaningful. And it's like a in a weird way, it's a stupid thing. But I think of people when they get dogs, it's pretty crazy. It's understandable. Yeah, yeah. Because a person gets a dog and then now they have to go and walk the dog. They have to go outside. They they have to. But in a weird way, they have to pushes them out of themselves. So there's a day you didn't want to go for a walk. Now you're walking. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And and.

I see that with people in their kids, especially people who have. either learned the lesson or have had the opportunity to fully learn the lesson. Absolutely. Yeah. But they forget themselves and in a weird way, then. get to meet other versions of themselves that they forgot. Life is about us meeting our teachers. Life does not have built in meaning. Life is meaningless. And you see that when you lock yourself in. a room and do nothing, everything else happened without you. Traffic happened, restaurants were open until you get out. the room and interact with the world. Then meaning happens.

Then you walked a long distance. Then you ate this great thing. Then you play pickleball with your friends. So life has no built in meaning. We give it meaning. But what makes life interesting is we're here to learn lessons, and we keep meeting our teachers along the way. And one of the reasons why I think our friendship, you and. I, has enjoyed so long, and it's actually almost the same age. as my daughter's relationship is, is because of your child's like nature. You look at the world with wonder. You don't look at anything as impossible. and one time you and I were driving somewhere, we were stuck in traffic and you said, Eugene.

And I said, yes, that's how we talk to each other. You said, you know what you must do. And I said, what? So we must buy a plane. That's like me. I said, a he said, yes, you must buy a plane. And I was like, planes are expensive. You said, yeah, but the small ones, you know, you can buy a Cessna. You're not. We can do it for comedians come together and we put 100, 100, 100. If we need to go someone, then we can just fly the plane. Then I was like, but what if you need to go different? Is it? Yeah. Then we'll book shows. Then we can all fly in together.

We can fly in, fly out, then we'll make it home again. You're like. Yeah. Then I was like, okay. There are many times that you and I did things. I mean, we never did. Yes, just for anyone listening. But this was because we were very far from even the idea of buying a plane. was 13 years later. No, no, no, I'm with you. You see what I'm saying? So you've always had that would the day you immigrated to America, I remember I was at your house, you said, come over. And then I came. Then we played Army of Two, and then you're like, hush. So I have to go now. There's like, where are you going? You're like, I'm going to America.

Then I say, is it a restaurant? Hey, can I come to what's going on? You're like, no, no, I'm actually a snap. Then you picked your bag, you switched off the thing. and you like, oh, you can have these games. I'm not going to play them anymore. Because, like, are you really like. Yeah. Then I was like, but what time do you need to be there? Like, I need to be the 30 minutes ago. Yeah. Then there you are. Great. Texted parents you were gone. You you went to go start a new life and a new career elsewhere. And I always looked at you and I go, I was telling a friend of mine.

when you first started to become prominent in American culture. Yeah, in the American space. I said this guy would have been successful, even. Who was a plumber. It did not help him become successful. TV did not help him become successful. Thank you. With anything, it would have been fine because he just looks at things like a kid. He looks and he goes tinkers. He opens up the bag and he touches this thing with America. I was like, where's the most comedy clubs with the most comedy? Narrowed it down to a place. Okay, how many shows can I do? Okay.

How many people can I see? Okay. How many, how many, how many, how many? I mean, you look at things like that, and I always look at your life and I go, if I was like you, I would have been where you are. If you were like me, you would have been where I am. The wonder and the beauty of how we are two people is we are not alike. That's why you and I can sit and talk about everything. Bad comedy. We speak about cars, you speak about life. So I'll always have time for a person who I think looks at me like that. And I think we've both shared that. So it's funny, I think of when I think of comedy, and how we shared it.

It was the same thing. We both had a deep love for the idea of this, because what. what made comedy specifically unique at that time in South Africa was, yes. It wasn't a thing. No. Like a thing thing. Do you know what I mean? If you said to anyone in South Africa, your parents, your friends, anyone, I'm going to be a comedian, I'm going to do comedy. People like, what is that? Right? And there was like a few people, not even a generation, but. a few people a few years ahead of us who were doing it. You know, the David goes and the John Lewis missus and all these.

But it wasn't like a, a long wasn't a thing. Yeah, it wasn't a thing. Wasn't it? You know, a long history tradition. So what I loved was. we were a ragtag group of enthusiasts, you know, like hobbyists. That's what we would do, because there were these people standing in a field with homemade airplanes. and with throwing them and being like, how far can years go? I said, what I've learned is, if you turn the wings like this and you get them, say, and it's funny. because I think you have Kip, that's more than anybody I know.

You might say I have childlike wonder. You are the most hobby obsessed person I know. I don't know anyone who's had more hobbies than you. Everything from trail riding, motorbikes, racing, race bikes on a on a on a track, shooting guns at a range. Started golf. Now you start a golf. Wow. There we go. Golf. Then you went through, like, a running phase.

Like you were doing, like, 20km. Ten kilometers. Then you. I mean, now that I say it out loud, I feel like. you're turning into a white person. This has been a long journey. I'm actually only now that I'm saying it, like looking at it, I'm like, wait a minute, Eugene. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When I look at what you down? Oh, boy. Nobody but you. Yeah. You and her taught me that adventure. That's what I go for it.

That's what you've always been. The adventure person. Yeah. You showed me that all the time. When I see you doing something, I'm like, adventure does pay off. because you go on this wild ride and you look. Yeah, but no, no, but we're we're different though is. And this is why I admire you. We're we're different is youth and admiration contest. Yeah. And we'll see who wins. You. You, I think one thing that's always inspired me about myself. from that competition, that is, I know admiration that you. And you know what, Ryan? That's what I love about you, is you don't need to compete with other people.

That's why I admire you. And now it's time for today's. Self-care toolkit segment, brought to you by Amazon. Whether it's delivering medication to your door with Amazon Pharmacy. or 24/7 virtual care with Amazon One Medical, thanks to Amazon health Care just got less painful. Okay, can we talk about comfort food when you're sick?

Because I feel like that's when logic leaves the building. All logic. Like you'd think being sick would make you eat something mild and healthy. No, no. For some reason, when I'm under the weather, I'm like, you know what sounds good right now? A giant plate of fries and three different kinds of sauce. You mix the sauce and it confuses the disease. I don't know, there's. something about being sick that makes your cravings totally unhinged. Maybe. Maybe it's just me and it's different for everyone. For some people, it's toast and tea.

I've heard. For others it's mac and cheese or fa and ice cream. Yes, I've actually heard that ice cream with fur while coughing. I think part of it is just nostalgia. You know, maybe it's our brains wanting to feel better. And food is memory. You know, that one soup your grandmother made or whatever. your parents gave you as a kid when you stayed home from school? Maybe that's what it is. Psychological reward for sickness. So maybe it's not about the food making you better. Maybe it's just about making you feel better.

and that's just as important. So profound. Well we hope you gave you some ideas for your self-care routine. Today's Self-care toolkit segment was brought to you by Amazon. Thanks to Amazon Health Care just got less. painful. You've. always inspired me and you've always reminded me. to focus on being successful at living life,

which is something that I think sometimes we forget as people. because I've always been good at living work, you know what I mean? Like, I'm really good at that plumbing, electrician, you name it. This I remember someone once said to me, they're like, what would you do if you wouldn't do comedy? And I was like, I'm like, anything. I would do anything because he created it. because I'm like, yeah, but anything, something has to be done. You know? I remember my mom said to me, one good something has to be true. Something has to be done. I love that my mom and I were driving, I don't know, from church or some.

We was probably from church. We only really drove to church together, but we in the car and my mom said to me, she's like really angry. And she's like, look at these. How can people be unemployed? And I was like, mom, what do you mean? How can people be unemployed sometimes? And then my mom said, there's always something to be done. My mom said to me, she said, you look in your life. She said, before you say there's nothing to be done, just go for a walk. and look around you. There's something to be done. I was a teenager at this time, but I was like, mom, that's not true. Sometimes there's nothing.

And then while we're driving, she said, okay, let's look on the street. What needs to be done. So I was like, what? What do you mean? She's like, look at the street. What needs to be done? I was like, I don't know. And then she said, does that grass look like it's been cut? I was like, no. She's like, so clearly that needs to be done. She said, so if you go to that house and you say, let me cut your grass. And I said, yeah, but what if they don't pay me? She said, yeah, then you can still cut it, though it will be done, it'll be done. And she said, then you'll go and you'll cut on your car. and eventually, eventually somebody is going to pay you to cut grass. She said, go and look for things to be done.

because there's always something to be done. The phrase my mom hated and I still like I actually have to like, work. On the opposite now is whenever my mom like my mom, the phrase she hated was there's nothing to do. I have nothing to do. She's like, there's always something to be done. What do you mean? But what that. meant was it meant that I've always been. completely comfortable. in work, in the doing and the. But the doing in one specific place. Yeah, but you have always shown me, like.

I mean, first time I rode, like, mountain bikes in South Africa. India was with you. Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yes. But like, we. like and I and I think, funny enough, that's maybe. one of the things that you blessed me with in comedy is have I not met you? Because we, we literally started comedy about a week apart, 100% in parallel universe. Literally. You were there that day and I wasn't there that day. You were not there. But literally a week apart. We started comedy in the same venue, in the same city, in the same country, right.

But I. think the thing you blessed me with in comedy is. you always reminded me to keep it as a hobby. Like always. You've almost always been allergic to it being a job. In fact, every time people have tried to make it a job, I almost feel like you get like you get offended in a weird way. And had you not done that with me, I think I would have let comedy be a job. And then if you let that happen, oftentimes.

the joy and the wonder that you experience in the thing goes away. Yes. It's I have to yeah, it's I have to add another one to our job as humans. We have to tap into our DNA and remember why we are here. Why do you think we're here? To live and fix the things that we didn't do last time? I think our lives are a continuous journey. Our souls know why we're here. This body is just a vessel. We just here to remember. It's time. And when we find passions and we find places that we're familiar with. But we don't know from where. It's because we've been here before.

We're trying to remember. And that what lives. That's what makes life so interesting for me. When I go to a place and I'm like, this is interesting. I'm like, I remember there must have been something great here. that happened somewhere sometimes. Yeah, that brings me back here again. And and I live in that world of wonder where I go. I've been here before. I've done this thing before. That's why when I lose something, I'm like, I must have had it before. And I had it again and it was time for it to go. So something can happen. Now I need to feel something. My job in this world, with this vessel, with this body, with all of the friends.

and the environment that it has brought me in, is to feel something. If I feel happy, I know I'm feeling, you know, so funny you say this. One of the. most transformative thoughts I've experienced. as a person was. I was I think I was in Sweden and I was on a mushroom trip. Right. And, you know, you you having this beautiful experience. and connecting with yourself, connecting with others. But one of the things that really hit me was.

the idea of energy. Right. And I'm not a woowoo person per se. You know I'm not very spiritual. I think you're more spiritual than I am. No, no I think you are and in a good way and like, and I think you remind me of that sometimes like I can be very didactic. I can be very, you know, ironically to go back to the Bible, it's like, you know, if you. if you look at the Trinity, it's like, yeah, there's there's the mind, there's the body, and then there's the spirit. This thing that exists in a world that you can't really. you don't think it and you don't feel it, but it is right.

And and the thought that I had was. energy. Everything that's happening in the universe is energy, right? Like it's. But like actual like even physics energy. I'm not saying like, oh, it's energy. I'm saying it's actual energy. Right. Yeah. But I'm saying what do you how do you think I'm I'm still available. Oh, I don't mean the sound effect. I don't mean not even dismissive to that, but I. Good, I get you. And I was thinking to myself once, it almost feels like our purpose. and our idea, which is funny, that you just said that is.

to express the idea. of what it means to be, by being in relation to, you know, so, like, I think of like, light is a good example. I always find it crazy because physics is such a complicated thing. My brain, I really struggle to understand. I listen to it and I remember things, but I go, I don't understand it. But like one of the craziest concepts to me is the fact that I'm not seeing you. I'm seeing the light that is refracted off of you.

Right. So when we see a flower, we're not seeing the flower. Really. We're seeing the light that the flowers reflecting. And when you expand that. sort of infinitely, you know, throughout time, you go, that is what we all are. What we all are is reflections of energy and light. that that is helping us to experience the thing that is happening. And then to your point, I remember thinking, I was like, what if the idea of what we call God. or this thing that we've all, you know, in different religions, different place,

different whatever we want to call it, what if it itself. is trying to experience the thing and that's why everything is. Yeah, yeah, dude, do you know what I mean? 100%. It makes total sense. It's just that as people, we avoid that. because it will now make us question everything that we are. The choices that we. made, the people that we know, the place that we've been. Yeah. And I think of all of that as an experiment. Like I go, so it's a giant.

We're in a petri dish. Yeah. And someone is basically, I think of it as a giant experiment, 100% true. You know, it's hundred percent true. Like, I actually I think of it like when, when scientists shoot lasers or they shoot like even a telescope. What what you're doing is you're getting a reflection of something, right? You're getting light. from, from a far distance away, and you're getting information from it. And I wondered, like, we could literally be the lasers. that are being sent to come back with information. So you, you driving the way you drove in a weird way. I know this sounds crazy, but in a weird way, you're teaching the entire human race how to drive. Yes.

And then you eating the like. I always go. I'm so grateful to people who ate certain foods and died. so that I know which foods I can eat. I think of it for pets. I'm like the first person to try to tame a will. A wolfie. And now we have puppies. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, because by the way, have you, you know, do you need. for you to have so you can walk in the mall with this thing? Do you see? Have you seen the videos of those guys who still do that now? Oh, time to tame wolves. No, not try to tame wolves. Not tame Eugene.

What do you mean? This is videos of people who are out in the mountains. Then they see wolves. Then they call the wolves like dogs. And then the wolf is not. Obviously, it's not a dog, but it, like, looks at them, it approaches them. And it's actually quite amenable to you as a person. And then they start playing with it. And then you see the wolf going, what is this that I'm experiencing this. Good. Yeah. Like, why is this clothed monkey making me feel good? Yeah. Yes. Like that's what the wolf is experiencing. And and then like they say that this is probably how it happened, etc., etc..

So you know, yeah, domestication existed but but it's amazing to see that stuff. It's like the did you say well dating. Wow. Oh look, one concept that blew my mind away, and also changed my life was when I read somewhere. I don't remember where where it says. everything that you're experiencing is what you want to experience.

So everyone in my life is a character that I created for me to have the sum. total of a life experience with feelings and emotions, and a quick fast forward to the journey that I need. What I signed up for before I was born, I knew which. characters must come into play for me to achieve what I need to achieve. Yeah, so for you to be here in a room with me is because I wanted it to happen. in the back of my mind, somewhere in my lesson in my past life, this should have happened so that I can can lead to something else. Same with you. So we keep meeting these soul families, a group of five individuals.

that will make a great impact in your life as you go along. So even if it's the first stage of your life, there'll be five that you can mention that matter as an adolescent. There'll be five that matter in your career. They'll be five that matter. Those are soul groups. So those are. people just coming into your life, and they exist purely for your assistance. They're here to push you. They're here to teach you. Even heartbreak is a lesson. Not all good time. That's why I was asking you in the beginning. Why do you think pain features so much in the Bible? It's because heartbreak is an accelerant.

Hurt and pain and loss is an accelerant to feeling something. You can be comfortable all your life and not feel anything else. But as soon as you feel loss and pain, you will remember that you also had a good time. So that's what pain and suffering is for. But suffering is voluntary, so you suffer and you choose it and use as a medication. You take it in doses so that you can remember how good you have it. Someone in a in a hospital right now who has no chance of leaving. doesn't have this privilege that you and I have to walk downstairs to walk around, get in the car, press buttons, and that's all they want at this moment.

But they've had it maybe for 50 years. Yeah, and never cared for it. But the suffering accelerated the memory of the good times that they had. So if you think about life like that, you can walk around the mall and see. hundreds of people. But if you think about how many people you've called and set. with and chatted with, in most cases don't exceed number five. is that group of people that you can rely on and trust, and they always accelerate you to go further. And those are the people. that will bring heartache, they'll bring laughter, they'll bring lessons, they'll bring admiration and adoration.

at the same time, because you need those two to balance. as much as you admire someone, someone needs to adore you. That's when the best romantic relationships work. When there's a hot man in the group, someone gets admired and someone adores the other person. They adore the fact that they admire them, and they admire them for the fact that they adored them. So that's how things work. This balance that we always seeking and just knowing that. once you start feeling something, then something is happening. Growth is pain. Kids go through that all the time. Oh my elbow. Yeah my back.

Because they grow and they go and rest and everything feels better again. Yeah. But as adults what do we do. We just go and try to make pain not exist because we feel like when we're feeling. pain we failed. And when you're feeling pain, you're growing. When you're tired, like we walked the other time. Yeah. And we felt did it. Yeah. Then we did something. I think it's the ultimate dilemma though, 100%. I'll tell you why I think is the ultimate dilemma is because. I think we. should be careful to not make life about pain. And I'm not saying you're saying that, by the way,

but I have noticed there's been a and maybe this is not a new thing, but just generally I've noticed a lot of people seem to use pain as the meaning. Do you know what I mean? They go, that's why are we here? And then and then, and, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no pain. is part of the experience. But I think we should be careful to not make pain the experience you get. I'm saying. And the reason I say this is because. we should also remember in the same way, that we cannot only exist in fun,

good, easy, comfortable, warm. We also don't exist in. cold, boring, hard, painful. We don't exist like that. You know, look at look at animals like, you know, throughout Africa. Why do they migrate? Like, think of the fundamental concept of migration. It's an animal going, oh, this land is about to become arid and it is about to become cold. It is about to become unlivable.

We're going to go seek out another place. And oftentimes, to your point, that journey is hard. But the thing that the seeking is not hard. And so sometimes I get like a little there's like a little spidey sense. that hits me the wrong the way where I go. Like, sometimes I go like, guys, I think we're learning the wrong lesson. or we're applying the lesson incorrectly because people will be like, I'm looking for the pain, and you're not saying that, but I'm saying. I go like, pain's a lesson, I love that, but people go, no, I look for pain. I look for the thing I look. Then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I argue,

looking for the thing on the. other side, looking for the rainbow and getting to it is the pain. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. The journey that is the pain. You want to go and see the view from the highest peak? Yes. The the hike is the pain. But I get a little thrown off when people now. sell the pain and they make it seem like that is the best, like no no no no no. Understand that that is part of it. You cannot get to a tall peak without experiencing the pain of the hike. And when you get there, as you say, funny enough, I love that's a beautiful way to put it.

It's an accelerant. That pain of the walk. makes you appreciate the view even more because you're like, wow, I can't believe this because I don't get to see it in my knees, my legs, my body, my feeling, my whatever. What you know, you know, the thing. is, the average person does not know the difference between suffering and pain. The first time I came across that was it was Viktor Frankl. I think really? Yeah. Viktor Frankl, who was, a psychotherapist, and he was a Holocaust survivor. And I remember reading his work and he developed a lot of it.

I think, in the Holocaust. And he said what he learned there was pain is real. Suffering is a choice. And a lot of people are angry at this. And he said no. And he said he said, I realized this in the concentration camp. Said, these Nazis were there and they were wanting to exterminate me and my people. And he said, but every day I was like, I can smile if I want to. smile and I can choose to enjoy my day. And now people, if you say that people were like, that's crazy. But he was like, no, no, no, he's like, this to me is real. Yes.

This part of my reality. I'm defying this conversation. Yeah. And and, you know, you know, when you realize. how real it is to your point, the pain and suffering. I always think of it in traffic, depending on how you feel, traffic is either just a thing that is happening. or it is the end of your life. Like I even think of it like this. Funny enough, like a podcast is a great example.

When I have a podcast that I'm listening to that I'm enjoying, there is no traffic, there's literally no traffic. I'm listening to a conversation and I'm driving. Sometimes I get angry that I get this sooner than I was. anticipating things happening because I haven't finished the episode. Now I'm sitting in a parking lot going, oh man, I have to leave this. Friends of mine. Oh man, oh man. What? I thought there's going to be more traffic. Yeah. But you get I'm saying now I'm at I'm at.

I've either reached the house that I was going to. I've reached the destination, the office that I was driving. But I'm. angry that there wasn't enough of the traffic because I enjoy. listening in a car perspective, you know what I'm saying? But if I'm trying to get somewhere. now all of a sudden I don't have a podcast and traffic is the worst thing. that's ever happened to me. And so to your point, funny enough, that's where it's pain versus suffering. right. The pain is real. Yes. Your wife's slow. but you're not suffering. Yes. So animals know this better than anyone.

So they migrate because they know that if they stay here, they won't suffer. And that's optional. So they walk towards the pain so they can avoid the suffering. So that's what the thing is. So it's an accelerant in that way that we need to work towards it. But if you stay you suffer. So suffering is always regret of things you would have done. had you enjoyed the pain. You're damn. That's deep. So you just have to know. I was talking to a comedian. You know this. I wasn't prepared for this. Oh,

oh, I wasn't ready. That's a deep one, man. So you're. They're doing it. Yeah. No excuse. But just say that again. So suffering. Yeah. If you stay. and then pain is what you go through when you walk away from suffering. So it's like you choose do you. Because it's going to be regret. No. You can apply it to everything. Yeah. It's going to be something is going to the gym is painful painful. Being overweight to suffering unhealthy and dying. Yeah. And making other people have to know. And if they're able to walk upstairs. Sorry. Okay. Now you're lifting your suffering. Yes. Should I have met, should have canceled and said I'm busy and I didn't go.

Not to the city and stuff and regret who could have been doing this. I could have just been. Yeah, I walked towards it. I had to do this. I had to do that. Yeah. I don't want to get up now. or should I get rest now or let me go then I'm here, then the pain, then I'm here. The mountain top, like you said. And I'm looking at this view. Animals do it instinctually. They know that if they stay, they suffer. If they move, they feel pain. But it's ultimately worth it because it's an accelerant to good times. Always. When you have to have a little bit of pain, the reward is far greater.

So when people have become numb, like you said, that's where the pain starts. That's where the meanness in people is. That's where the impatience is. That's where the intolerance is. Because we've we now avoid suffering and pain at the same time. You know, you're living with one knee now. You numb. So that's why I say when the day finishes and I'm in pain. Yeah, I know that did something nice. Not when I have regret. I shouldn't have gone there. Why did I even go? Yeah, I'm with you. I shouldn't have gone. Why? But if I'm going. Oh my neck. Oh, this. Oh, you're my finger because of doing this all day.

Oh, this and that. I've never regretted those days. I always wake up the next morning. I know exactly why this part is sore, but because that pain accelerated me. to learn a new skill and learn how this person. We said in class so many times, you and I. Yeah. And we don't like selling cars, but we love cars. Yeah, in the car we know that we play music in the background. And I've always criticized your music choice, but it allows conversation because, you know, this thing, I mean, you in. the police station was playing the Tchaikovsky. and all these people, and I'm like, Trevor, is this an elevator?

Like sort of. And then we're there. We have these in when the content environment in traffic, like you said, but you don't see the traffic. And we we get to have these conversations extended. But then when I look at my eyes, I'm like, I hate being in a car for that long. But when we are together, we're having this conversation. It accelerated that for us, it facilitated that. So when we start looking at people, event time, our bodies and objects. as an accelerant for us to remember who we really are and what we're here to do,

then life becomes this journey where regrets don't exist. Because everything that happened that I didn't enjoy. was accelerating me to my growth. And why would I hate something that made me grow? I loved all of it. That one missing that half most of the day of school that day had. homework to catch up on because I couldn't trade that for the world. When I'm sitting with my mom, I often think when I was. ten years old, my mom had just turned, almost 40. She was young. She took the time she could have had with a friend.

I'm 43 right now. She could have hung out with her friends. You know, it is weird to think about how young our parents. But she chose to. Yeah, she made sure she swapped shifts with someone. She took that shift. She would take me and Rihanna to listen to me. So I think of those times, and I go, if I think of the homework that piled up. and my friends were telling me about the soccer match. that they had after school, blah, blah, and I'm thinking about the time I lay in the grass. with my mom in the park, and I'm like, I couldn't swap that for the world now. I appreciate the effort she put into making sure that she accelerates my growth. by feeling that little bit of pain of homework catch up.

She accelerated me in knowing who I really am. I love nature being on the outside. I love being at the park, I love laughing, I love dreaming and just lying there. and looking up and having a good time. So when I look at my life in my late 30s and 40s and I look at my life in my tens. and I'm like, there was always grass, there's always a park. I was at Berger's Park, a park in Pretoria that's derelict, and I got to spend time. in the most prestigious park in the world that people dream of going to, and I got to lie on the grass there and daydream again about my life.

and things that I thought of three years ago in that park. I have them now. So I'm not wrong. Somewhere, somehow there's energy that's vibrating towards helping me. get to where I'm going. What do you what do you do when you feel disconnected from that? Because I. maybe and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm even projecting. But I think one of the things I've noticed you and I both share is. there'll be moments where we feel disconnected from that, and then it's like, we don't want to go outside, and you don't want to be part of the world, and you don't want to see the thing, and you don't.

You know what I mean? How do you how do you get back to that? I look at pictures. Phones are the greatest invention ever. I look at places that I've been to and I remember the feelings that I had there. Then I go, what is the quickest way I can replicate this? If I can't go there, then I'll find a patch of grass and I'll find a park. Then I'll find sunshine, I'll wear my walking shoes. and I'll start walking for kilometers and kilometers. I've got to be walking shoes. Yes. What are the Adidas shoes? But I use them for walking. Just walking shoes. No running shoes, but I use them for walking up to this like this is no, no.

They can do no. When you know when you do what you, you. you chose the wrong day. Oh, snap. Oh man. I got my walking shoes on. Oh I would have gotten away from you know what? Yeah man. When I look at those and I put them on, I know I'm going to walk now. And I know what what that means to me and what I remember. The thing that we do worst in our lives is not to remember. We must remember. You and I have memories between us. We don't have anything physical. Yeah, nothing at all. But we have memories.

We go. That guy there was this time when we did this. Yeah. Then we laugh. Then we move on to other people and other things. And then after that, we remember things that they did. And we come back to the memory again, you know, remember that thing. So that's all I have. So when I feel I dive deep into that hole of suffering. Yeah. Then I realize this self-imposed my bike is outside, my thing is there. My daughter is in the other room. Yeah. My PlayStation. So I go, why are you choosing this Nagoya? Yeah, but I go. look at my sneakers and I go, I can wear those to go outside right now. And it's within my grasp and reach.

And I tell you now, whenever I walk, I see the car that I love. I see the I see a post 911 walk driving. ramp and I'm going, if I was in my room, I would never seen this. Is this a coincidence? There's a, so there's, French philosopher. He talks about luck and the surface areas of luck. Wow. Right. Because I know I'm. going to butcher some of it, but I remember it for the most part. Essentially what he talked about this is like a long time ago,

but what he talked about was how. luck is always happening. It's continuous. Okay. However, there are different types of luck. that you can choose to participate in in love. And so he said the first type of luck is dumb luck. Pure chance has nothing to do with you, and that luck is who you were born to when you were born, where you were born, what you look like, what the certain things are. It's like, hey man, I outside of your city, outside of your control.

You were born in the Philippines, okay? You were born in the Philippines. You were born in Estonia, okay? You were born in Estonia. That's it. Right? That's like a dumb luck. Then the second type of luck that he talks about is lack of motion. And this is where things start to get interesting. So he goes, there's luck that happens to you. merely because you start moving, right? Both literally and figuratively. There's lack of motion. So if you lie in bed all day,

you can never bump into somebody by chance. in the mall, on the street, in a non evolution motion. Yeah. No. But now remember it's very important to, to to to remind people. and my myself all the times I go like remember luck can be good or bad. So I'm not saying this is like good thing. I'm just saying it is right. Because if you don't get out of bed, you can never stub your toe. Right. Like that. Yeah. So it goes both ways. As soon as you start to increase your motion.

there is going to be a higher probability of luck happening in your life. So you've created your luck. And lucky people generally are people who try. and facilitate more motion in their lives because they consider themselves lucky. So you'll go, why do you buy a raffle ticket? I'm a lucky kind of guy. Then another person is like, I don't have any luck. That's why I don't even bother buying it. But that motion sets in place, the effect that you then experience. Then you have the third one, which I think is like a lack of awareness.

They have different names for, but lack of awareness. And that one is literally what you ironically, you see, let's say. you did your motion, you left your house, you went outside the posh drives by. So you got to experience the Porsche, right? Wrong. You experienced it because of what you were aware it was there. Do you know what I mean. So now you go wow, I'm so lucky that a Porsche drove by and a Porsche is my favorite car. Yeah, but you also lucky because you were aware of it. If you were walking around with your head in your phone.

and headphones on now you weren't aware of what was happening. So there's some people who go, I'm so lucky. to have such great people in my life. Yes, but you have to be aware that you have great people in your life. Otherwise you're not going to be lucky to have great people in business. And awareness is one of the key ones. The awareness of luck. And that, again, that awareness can go the other way. If you are aware of the negative more than you are. aware of the positive, you will feel like you have terrible people in your life. You have terrible things happening to you. There is you live in a terrible country. Like you know what I mean? Like people like that.

I'm amazed by the way, when I travel the world. and regardless of where I go, there are some people who think they are living. in the greatest country ever, and some people who. think they're living in the same country. It doesn't matter where I go. I've talked to Americans who say this is, oh my God, I can't believe I'm so lucky to be in America. I mean, have you seen this country? And then I talk to Americans who are like, I can't. I mean, this is the worst country. I wish I could live anywhere else. And I'm like, so the two of you are in the same place. What are you aware of that the other one isn't. What are you choosing to be aware of?

So that's the luck. You've got dumb luck, lack of motion, lack of awareness. And then the last one this reminds me of you. is lack of uniqueness or lack of specialization. And this is a luck that will only happen to you if you choose. to engage in something that requires an active and specialized thought. You are way less likely to meet Lionel Messi. if you are not in football, do you not? I mean, I'm not saying you will or won't,

but I'm saying you're way less likely to meet Lionel Messi. If you're not in football, you're way less likely to meet a Supreme Court Justice of the United States. If you are not in law, less of a no one is less likely to meet you. Cause if they're not both in comedy. Comedy was our uniqueness. Can we can I add something as your dumb luck? When I came back from two years ago, I found this place on the internet without even looking at it. Without even viewing it. I just moved in. We just moved from the place.

You live in the U.S., and then you bought a house, right? 12 minutes away from me. Yeah. Dumb luck. But no, that wasn't dumb luck. Funny. No, that was luck of motion. Yes. Because you you you chose a place. Yes. And I chose a place. Yes. But the last one, to your point, the most important one was even us. Right. And if you think about it, it's like comic comedy. We've chosen to, like, like, hone in on this thing, like a, you know, I remember I remember telling. Dave Chappelle, we, we were I think it was like his 50th birthday with us. Happy 50th birthday. One of the other shows.

And anytime Dave is performing somewhere and I can go, I'll go. And then Dave loves comedy and he loves comedians. So Dave System, he's like, yo, are you jumping on? I was like, no, I'm not jumping on. And he's like, why not? Then I was like, Dave, I'm not jumping on because I don't come to do comedy. I came to watch comedy, and more importantly, I came to watch you as Dave Chappelle. I'm here to enjoy the show. Then he's like, no, but you got to jump on. You got to jump on. Come on. Why? Why you not jump? And he was like, and then I had to like, think about it hard. because he didn't he sort of didn't understand. He was like, do you not want to jump on because it's me I showed you?

I was like, you crazy? What are you? Then I realized what it was. I was like, Dave, you have to understand that I also love. this thing beyond me doing it so much that getting to come in like a. because I see how much you love it and so have joy. So if I come here and do the comedy, some of my awareness is dulled because I'm thinking of myself. I'm thinking of my jokes. I'm thinking of my point of view. Look like performance. You know, was I dressed for this? All of it. I'm thinking, like I'm thinking of me.

And now I get to miss you. You as Dave Chappelle, I get to miss arguably the greatest comedian of, like, our generation. Because I just wasn't aware, because I was I was self-aware, you know what I mean? Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this? Those steps that you've just mentioned, what I would do before. this conversation, I would clap them all together into motion.

Okay. Got it. I would look at it as I did something and they did something. Then we did something happened. Yeah. I wouldn't look at it as the way that you broke it down. It makes so much sense. Yeah. And I also feel like we've become lazy to dream. I think, most, most of us, this. That's the one thing we have for free. Your imagination, our dreams. Just lay back. and just think of what you want and it will appear in front of you. And I learned this weird concept. I said in this friend of mine. I said, everything that I've had, that I enjoyed. and that I acquired immediately was I never put time to it.

I said, I have this thing and I'm going, I have it now. and I can't wait to touch it. And feel it. And that thing happened. But there's things that I've always put far ahead in my life. And I said, yeah, one day, one day, one day one, because I've been nonspecific. about what I want. The thing keeps becoming a dream. And I said, I'm I'm very aware that also that can be an addiction on itself, postponing your own joy, success and happiness into the future. because somehow you feel like you yourself, you are an undeserving. You are not worthy.

You're not ready. So you keep saying, one day I'm going to make a lot of money. One day. What's a lot of money? And then you keep saying that because you don't want to be. Because you want to commit yourself to it, you know, same way I don't write. my sit down this things I'd never want to commit myself to. And again, I'm specific. If I want to see a 911 red one, I'll say to myself and I'll see a red one, and I'll see you twice in a day. Like, yeah. So it. Because now I'm aware. Now you've made me aware. It is my awareness that's heightened. Yes. But it also has emotion and unique and uniqueness. And I was cific here. And I also get specific about what I want.

So I'm learning that now, recently that I must be specific with what I want. I even seed in my mind's eye. Can I can I tell you why? What I think it is though? Yes. So I argue. that most of the time, the reason we're not specific. with what we want is because we do not know what we want. I believe that all of us, as human beings, we do not know what we want. I think we know what we don't want, but we don't know what we want. And I think if you live life thinking, you know what you want,

you're going to find yourself constantly disappointed when you get there. and realizing that it is not doing what you thought it would do. Yes. Right. So all of us grow up. You're young boy. Maybe some girls as well, depending on society. Whatever you go. I want a Ferrari when I grow up. But nobody has ever sat us down to say why. Why do you, as a four year old. who has never paid any bill in your life, think you want a Ferrari? You know how to drive. What do you why do you think you want a Ferrari then?

Looks good because it's fast and. And because it's because it's red and because like. Yeah, but why what what are all those things going to do? What what is it that you. And then what happens in life? Boys grow into men who then work to get towards something. Girls grow into women who work towards something. And then they get the thing, they get the Ferrari, they get the wedding, they get the big house job, they get the job, they get all these things.

And then what happens is the deep emptiness inside you. And that. deep emptiness is the realization that the thing that you want. has not made you feel like you thought it would make you feel, because you never had it. So how would you know that. it would make you feel that way because you've never had it. And this is the thing that I literally realized this for my life. And then I challenge my friends and anyone I talks about this, they'll go, man, I really want that thing. Then I go, why do you want it now? Because, you know, if I can, man, if I can get that job, then.

then I go like, okay, then what will happen? I'm just going to then I'll feel like my life is. Then I'm like, you're lying, you're lying. Do you know how I know you're lying? Because you've never had the job. So how do you know that the job will make you feel that way? We all want to feel a certain way, but we don't know. what the thing is that will complement or help us feel that way. We don't know that. That brings me, to the initial subject that we started with when I said, when we hang out with people that have normal jobs.

Yeah, because we get to experience their milestones from the outside. So when someone that's I said to you, when someone looks at a car. and so that's a nice car. Yeah. You and I remember a time when they looked at another car. and said, nice car. Oh yeah. When we get them going I can get off because of. But we, you and I remember a time when they wanted the gig. Yeah, but now I hope, I hope I get this job. So that's why I said why is this coming full circle. That's. That's where I find when I'm with friends that have structured, normal jobs.

That's why I get to measure what people's needs really are versus what they want. Because they wanted this thing so bad. They dreamt about it. They they knew if they reach this level and get this kind of a job and position, this is what it means. But when I'm with them that I don't have the time for this anymore. You know, most things here. Cause the thing that they dreamt about the most, you know, it's so funny. You are. I mean, I've never said this to anyone because it would be weird, but you are one of the reasons I left the Daily Show.

to you. I'm sure. Not because you knew how you felt. about people with jobs. Ha ha ha ha. I did what an evil man. No, you wanted to. You know why? It was a conversation. You and I had men years ago. Maybe like ten years ago, somewhere there. And you said to me again, as usual, we're in a car. We were driving somewhere and you said, make sure you learn.

how to starve yourself before somebody starves you. And I was like, what? I was like, yo, this is deep. Because like, we were going to buy Nando's or something. Know? So I was like, this is a strange is this like a euphemism for. are you telling me you're not going to pay? What? What is happening? You. And then you said, no. You said you must learn how to starve yourself before somebody stops you. I was like, what were you talking about? And oftentimes you'll say crazy things to me and I'm like, we're friends. So I just listen. But when you when you broke it down, you said, if you have never starved yourself, you don't know what it's like to starve.

And so when you are starved by somebody else or a situation, you will now be panicking because you don't know what it is like to starve. You know what I mean? So you do use like a silly analogy. If you lift weights the day, you need to lift. something you are familiar with lifting as a concept. Yeah, you've lifted things to yourself. You've made yourself lift heavy things. So now when you have to lift a heavy thing,

you know how to lift a heavy thing and you're not like, you. It might still be heavy, but at least you know how to lift things right? And when you said that to me, stuck with me and we talked a little bit. more about and we talked a little bit more about it and. I remember when I was going to leave. The Daily Show, the thing that stuck with me was how. very few people. Considered the notion that I could want.

something that wasn't what was supposed to be wanted. People like, why would you leave? It's the Daily Show. Then I was like, yeah, and it's a beautiful thing. Like, yeah, but why would you leave? Then? I'm like, why do I leave a park? I go to beautiful park, but now what? So you want me to just live at Central Park now? Yeah, but it's so stunning. I would say there are people you say that. you think you would, but you you like him. Just because it's beautiful doesn't mean that it never has to end. You know, coming back to what you're saying about endings,

like, literally, I'm not even joking. You taught me that, like, in so many ways, I was like, yeah, but when when does it end? And it does. I'm not saying it. You have to do it to make it end. But it's like, yeah, but when does it end? And it was so interesting having some of the. some conversations with people at The Daily Show, some people who I said to them, I said, so are you going to be here forever? And then they would just look at me and go. Oh, well, I actually and some people were honest enough. to say, well, actually, there's this project. that I was actually going to leave and I'm thinking of doing something.

So you two at some point are going to leave. Even like a viewer, there's some people who will say, I used to watch the show all the time, I really loved you on it. Why did you leave then? I go, but you used to watch. When did you start? You left. Then they go, well, I stopped after the pandemic and then. But I love the show. Then I'm like, yes, but you stopped watching and you didn't allow hate me. You just stopped watching. And that's beautiful. So if you are. able to acknowledge and understand that things are going to stop, things are going to end, things are going to be in between.

Like like why? Because if you if you're not careful, you're no longer aware. You know it was can I tell you. I'm eternally eternally grateful. And when I think of the Daily Show I go like man, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And I've told you about. It's like you want to talk about pain. One of the hardest things I've ever experienced in my life, and also. one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever, ever had in my life.

But to stay in it's. Beyond the pain. now just turns it into like a suffering. Now, choosing this pain. You know what I mean? I think it was actually Letterman. I think it was Letterman who said in his in his farewell, just when he was announcing that he was leaving, like they say in this business, you know, you. you got to know when it's time to move on. You got to know when it's time to leave. And and, for me, that day came.

and I stayed 15 years longer. And today I'm announcing that I'm leaving, but I like. And it was such a it was a good joke, but it was like, it's a poignant thing that not many people could like. Really. What I connected to that, I was like, oh yeah. It can end. And how many of us can truly say. that we have exercised our choice to end the thing when we could anything. When we wanted to. Because most of the time life is doing things for you. Yes. When does the ride end. Well when it ends they tell you to get off a roller coaster.

You, they like please. They're like hey man, get off. So you never get to choose to end a roller coaster ride. They tell you that the restaurant is closing. so you don't get to choose to like, walk out when you want to walk out. Sorry. We need this table. They tell you the movie's over, you don't get to choose. Netflix tells you the season is finished. You don't. You. And if you look at it, we are experiencing fewer and fewer opportunities to choose. when to end the thing and when to begin a thing, which is a weird, beautiful blessing to have. Because there's one thing we don't choose when to end and when to begin. And that's life.

You don't choose when your life is going to begin, and you don't choose, for the most part, when your life is going to end. And so in like a genuinely, that's one of the things that you've always. like, I've always looked at you like a crazy person, but in a good way. I always think my friends, genuinely, most of my friends I think are crazy for different reasons. But I looked at you and I go, this guy's crazy. Why did he do he just. So he walked away. So he stopped that. So he's not doing that. So he's not. And you're like, yeah, it is crazy. Only because it's not normal.

But it's not crazy because it doesn't make sense. People react to extremities all the time because you want to feel people. don't know that. They want to feel something when they watch a football match. They want to feel something. They want to feel joy or disappointment. There's two teams playing. Yeah, there's when there's nothing worse than a boring goalless draw. Yes. When people come to your show, they want to feel something. Sometimes they think it's laughter, but it's not. It's actually getting to know the person next to them. They want to be around normal people and hear normal conversation. People want to feel. So when people that I, I seen as outliers.

are reacting towards the universe. from what they're feeling on the inside as individuals, the whole spectrum. of people that they know gets to feel something simultaneously. So when you're acting on something that you're feeling inside. as an individual, as Trevor, around people, myriads of them that know you, that you don't know. Yeah. When you're acting on your feelings, it ripples towards. everyone else that knows you. You don't have to know them. And then there's that feeling, something.

They feel disappointment. They feel anger. They feel that you're being ungrateful because they're in places. where they're feeling some they don't want to. They're suffering. When are you going? Know, the pain of knowing that you will feel. this way is worth it for me, because staying was suffering as an individual. I had to make this decision to have this pain. so I can end the suffering so I can work towards something else. So we get to feel that from other people. A lot of people felt did. I was lucky enough to be around at at the Daily Show on your last week,

and I could see the reaction of how it made people feel. I could feel the rumblings of the audiences. before that takes that to happen. Yeah, I could sit with you at the office well before you went on the show. Then we got to walk in the streets and go have food, and all I knew was. you made the right decision and I wish people that know. you and I could know you the way I know you, because they would know that. That what you did came from a good place. I know that you take care. You took care of the people that work closely with you, and some people that will never know that you took care of them. in that space, in that job, in that particular environment.

You left an everlasting legacy of kindness, of working together, having everyone have a voice. Yeah, I hope so. I was. I was in one of your writing sessions, and I would feel like the energy to something. and then you would be like, yeah, see, but if you do want to also say. or can also not say, but that's the culture that you bred. But those are the things that people are going to queue up and tell you about. That's what you must know innately inside of you as a human being, that my reactions are always going to cause a ripple effect. to people that know me, that I don't know,

but they're only reacting towards who I am, not what I am. Because you've changed what you were. You were a host. But who you are is Trevor. You've changed what you were a boss. But who you are is a friend. You've changed all of those things. And of course there was going to be suffering. There was going to be suffering from. People don't want to let you go, but you let them go first. because you are teaching them a lot of what you guys are speaking about. I just a lot of them touch very similar to like Buddhist principles.

of like non-attachment. Living in the now. without worrying too much about the future. and how thoughts of suffering, yes, are suffering. It's suffering. It is suffering. So even if you're not suffering, you're thinking about suffering. You're suffering. But I think the main one that you guys are speaking about. is like the same thing over and over is the thought of non-attachment. So non-attachment is a job, you know, non-attachment to, to, to to financial things and worldly things and, or titles or titles.

You know, a lot of what you guys speaking about, I think is non-attachment. You know, you know, one of the, one of the, one of the biggest lessons. I learned in processing leaving The Daily Show was. when I'd have conversations with people on the outside and on the inside. But I realized something that we oftentimes haven't been taught. to go back to the beginning. of our conversation about loss and life. We haven't been taught that things will end,

and we haven't been taught to say goodbye in a healthy way. So what we do is. we wait for the thing to be gone, then we start saying goodbye. like I'm eternally grateful. to my mom and to my gran. for fully preparing me for the fact that my gran was going to die. Even though she wasn't on her deathbed. It was like, Amen, it's imminent, and my gran would even joke about it. But now it meant that while we were talking,

we were saying goodbye and would say goodbye like a goodbye like Amen. Okay, go, go. Yeah. I mean, I'm going back to New York. Okay. Bye. Bye, Trevor. Okay. Bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye. I might not see you again now. You like them, you know you like. Now you almost wanna be like. Don't say that. It's like. But why? I might not see you again. Because if you learn how to say goodbye. When the thing is still there, you get to say goodbye. As opposed to always regretting that you never got to say goodbye.

Love yourself. Yeah. And I think about this with, with like, all of it. I go, I think about like even us as people in relationships, you know, like how many of us are guilty of. feeling that something is fading for another person. and not saying goodbye? Instead letting the thing die in front of them. and not you get I'm saying because we just, we haven't been taught that. Yeah. Relationship objects.

like think about companies. What have they taught people would have companies taught people. No. You must say goodbye. When you cannot work anymore, the company will retire you when doesn't want you. Yeah, but why don't you retire the company? You can't afford it. You can't afford to starve yourself, you know. Why not? Why don't you buy your company a pen and say like, hey man, congrats on having me for ten years. I'm out. I like that by the company office. Yeah. What? What is. That's right. But think just think about how we've been taught to do it. You know what I mean? And by the way, it's actually interesting how like, is like, have you seen how emotionally reactive people get to people who choose like,

suicide, like like I said, I'm not saying like said suicide, you know what I mean? Because I think there's a difference between like, people who are experiencing. like a deep depression or they feel like the world is ending them. And someone has said a beautifully like suicide is a permanent solution to a. temporary problem. That's a different thing. I'm talking about somebody who goes, I have terminal cancer. Have you seen how how allergic people are to. Yeah, euthanasia. How like how allergic people are sometimes. No. You you and it's like the person goes like, hey, man,

I have a terminal illness. I'm still able to move. I'm still able to laugh. I'm still able, and I'm enjoying these things. And you know what, guys? I've had a great time. I'm out, had a good run. Yo, people are like, no. How dare you? You've got a fight and you've got a this. And they go like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm fine. I've got to say good bye. And I want you to say good bye. And I want you to see me like this. I know, but the reaction that people give them, man. And I understand it both ways. By the way, I don't think one is wrong, all right, but I understand that.

I understand somebody's going. No, I want to say good bye when I'm ready. But to your point, and I know I'm guilty of this, sometimes you'll never be ready. because you you're not practicing saying goodbye. You haven't stopped yourself. And so if you haven't practiced it and if you don't know how to say goodbye, you'll never be ready. Because then when are you ready for somebody to die? Always. But you get. I'm saying you're never ready. Yeah. And then when it happens, you then now experience the thing. And now you. Now you had a gravestone going like I didn't say goodbye.

I wish I could have said this. I wish I could stay this way, you know. So it's it's. really weird how literally you one of those people who where I go like. Yeah. No, Eugene, if there's one thing you taught me in life, it's like, oh, man, practice saying goodbye. And I think, unfortunately and in some ways, fortunately, because the silver linings, I guess life has like, really amplified the lesson that you've taught me. through the losses you've experienced. How did the last day feel?

Did it feel like. you're walking out and you could come back again any time? Did it feel like you've walked out of this door before, or did you know you leaving the chapter behind? The the week my grandmother died. Was the first. and only week I've canceled shows at the Daily Show in seven years. Yeah, I had an appendix surgery.

I came back to work. I missed one day of work, came back post-surgery. I've had knee surgeries. I've worked, you know, you name it. Through the pandemic, all of it. My grandmother dying was the first time. I canceled shows at The Daily Show. And I'll never forget, like, when I said, hey, man, we canceling the shows. The network said that. Okay, we'll we'll do, we'll do, we'll get the correspondents to host.

And then I was like, no, we're going to cancel the shows. And they said, we understand that you're grieving. But yeah, we're going to like, you know, we're we're like, the show must go on. And I remember thinking, my grandmother came on and did an episode. for The Daily Show, like, we needed an episode. We were in South Africa. My grandmother welcomed us into her house, and she's not even that kind of person. But it was amazing to see us like these people. It's like she's part of this thing.

I'm not just the one morning the Daily Show has to mourn this thing. in some way because it was a part of it, you know? And so that all happened. And I'm at home, and I was crying like I've never cried in my life. And and then everyone came over, you know, and I'll never forget this. David Kabuga came over, Joseph Opia came over. David Meyer came over. Friends from one from America, one from Uganda, one from South Africa.

And they all came over to the house. Eugene. We sat there and I cried, and then we laughed harder than I've. I can ever remember laughing in my entire life. We laughed, talking about families. and funerals and death and, you know, grandmothers. And we joke and we laughed. and cried and laughed and like, you don't even understand. And I, I remember the feeling that I was having in that moment was.

a feeling of deep gratitude that I had got to experience. this human being who was my gran. And in a similar way. that definitely didn't have the same level. of profoundness. I felt that on the last day of the Daily Show. There are few things. more blessed in this life. than being able to grieve when something is still around,

because grief is unprocessed joy. It's all rushing into you at the same time. Mixed emotions. It's all beyond mixed. If it's all of it at the same time, it's every smile, every hug, every kiss, every laugh, every meal, every it's all coming in at the same time. And that's why your body feels that I feel is like it's it's all of it. At the same time. Every hug from every one motion. Human, one death, one one thing happened. And now it all comes to you at the same time.

But you know how wonderful it is to experience. that when the thing is still alive. Do you know what I mean? That's what I got to do with the Daily Show. The show didn't get canceled. I didn't get fired. What a beautiful way to to move on. You're still healthy. We got. Yeah, we got to grieve it, but still be there. We got to. You know, it's that phrase which I. It's always stuck with me. I love it. I go like, man, I wish we could. all attend each other's funerals while we still alive. Because then what would we say while I'm here?

What how would we connect? You know, many people you're going to see at your friend's funeral. that you didn't connect with because you were just like. But now at the funeral, you'll be like, hey, man, we should we should get that drink. Hey, man. We should. Why don't we hang out anymore? Because otherwise we'd say that's excuse. We? But why don't we have a funeral while the person is still alive? Now we're going to go. Then tell the person how we feel about them. Now we're going to tell a funny story about how wonderful they are as a person, and the stupidest thing they ever did.

Now we're going to connect to each other. But why do we only wait for death to remember life? And so it's not impossible. It's not impossible. I just think it's hard because you just say we get lazy. We were taught we don't have to do it. We've been sold this idea that it's not. You never. It'll come. It'll. No. But like, genuinely, I go try it. You know, we had this type of conversation, but not obviously in this depth. Well, we're standing there. You came back and we're standing there at a place. And then I looked at the shoes by the door in the guy.

There's so many shoes. Yeah. And then you looked at me and you said, Eugene, people are supposed to look in with shoes in this house. This is my place in you. Then I was like, oh! As I looked at my feet and I saw my shoes on my feet. That's. And is. It's just that, you know, this obviously, personally, I'm a very private person on social media. Yeah. I don't put out my life.

But if there's one and if there's one thing that I wish. people knew about a few things how nice you are as a human being. Oh, shucks. Thanks. How how generous you are as a person. And I'm talking about your time. and how loving you are to everyone. Because I think us all as your friends. You know our stories personally. Yeah. As your friends, we don't feel like we are part of a group. Everyone feels like they know you and you know them.

And when I experienced. you at work, remember, I know you from Horror Cafe. I know you from your polo. I know you from Texas. With great food, pens, running to the airport. and going to start a new life and a new career. And then I get to see the same guy at this, at the helm of this huge institute, what became an institution? American pop culture. And I see. the same guy who asks the PA, have you eaten? Is there something that I can do? Did you order that thing is a thing. Thank you so much, I appreciate you.

Good night. And I see you doing that. And I'm going. I wish people could see this and know this about you. How nice and caring of a person you are. I've never called you on a bad day. I never, never caught you on a bad day. You are genuinely nice person and I always, whenever. I think of what we are going to do when you say let's hang out, I always go, I know what I'm going to get here. If there's one thing that's going to happen here. is I'm going to experience generosity. Kindness. Not a bad word about anyone and just some bad words.

Pure child like joy. And you know, people around you will never have less of that ever. As long as you're still here and the day you're gone, because we're all going to go some point. But this is what you must know about yourself, is you have it in you. It's not a thing that you earned through money, through fame, through success. You were born into a job. That's why your grandmother asked you to lead a prayer. She saw something in you that a lot of the world was soon to see, and she just wanted you to take center stage and claim it.

That there's an inner power in you that makes people gravitate towards you, that make people go. I believe in what you're saying, and a lot of what you're experiencing. is because of that, you were groomed to be that person of a shining beacon. You bring your friends together, you brought an office together, and now here you are bringing all of us together. And these people will get to hear what I have to say because of you. So you must be proud of yourself when you go to bed, when you closing your checking account like I usually do. Take that one thing off. Be proud of yourself for being a nice and kind person.

who has no bad word to say about anyone damaging. Yeah, I mean, it. You know, it's funny. You just made me realize why I want to do this series of my favorite people. Yeah, is literally because of what we said. Yeah, it's like one. people often ask me why I am the way I am. Then I go, like, I'm not the way I am. I'm just a manifestation of the way we are and the ways. all the people in my life correct. You know, so I go, you can't watch my comedy and not know Eugene Cosa,

you know what I'm saying? You can't see how I think about life and not see Eugene. Cause you can't like this. And everyone in my life has that in a different way. Absolutely. Do you know what I'm saying? But you like. Yeah, man. You you blessed me again because you you've, like, really given me an idea of, like. Why? Because I knew why I wanted to do this. But I didn't know, like or rather, I knew what I wanted to do. I myself didn't know, like the why. And I think this is this is the why. Thank you, my friend. Thank you.

This is dope. Now let's go ahead and say some bad words about people. I just know, I know we've we've shouted out. Buddhism yet, but we haven't shouted out. Tabassum, you was the first one who taught us to say goodbye. It's up to us to say goodbye. And if you're right, that's now in this ride. Bye bye. I mean, this is dope. Thanks, Eugene.

What now? With Trevor Noah. is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackel.