Mayor Karen Bass Predicts Los Angeles’ Future! - What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

- Could we just make sure everyone's recording? - All right. I'm, I'm recording on my side. - I'm recording. - I. - Not, one second, one - Second. I'm, I'm always recording. Please note that all calls are recorded. for quality assurance purposes. This is what now with Trevor Noah,

happy mayor of Los Angeles. Karen Bassey, everybody happy? Karen Bass. Happy Karen Bass. I love speaking to mayors because after, after years. and years of speaking to politicians, I have been told by, I would say like the majority of politicians. that mayors have the most direct impact on, on your life. Like if you live in a city, a mayor has more. of an impact on your life than the. president of your country does. And most people don't think this.

Most people are out there in the. streets, especially in America. I've noticed, like in America, it's all about national politics. Christiana, I feel like of all of us, you have the highest stake in this conversation. 'cause you are a resident of Los Angeles. - I, you know, I do. And you know, I've had some experience with mayors. Boris Johnson was the mayor of London. and then became the Prime Minister. So I have a lot of feelings. I've had the worst mayors. I had de Blassio, I had Boris Johnson and Karen. I have no view of it right now. because I mean, it's, she's currently reigning as the mayor.

- I, I wanna speak to her about, I mean, everything obviously, but, you know, LA right now, I think one of the big topics obviously is homelessness. - Yeah. - Yeah. I find that people are more angry. at homeless people than they are at the situations. that make people homeless. - For sure. Yeah. - Like, they make it, they make it seem. like people leave home, kiss their family, and they're like, all right honey, I'm off to be homeless. See you soon. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, no one wants to be homeless. - Listen, especially, you - Know how you know that.

nobody Yeah. You know how you, you know, how, you know nobody wants. to be homeless is because all homeless people. try to build homes. Have you ever noticed that? - Yep. - Yeah. - Yeah. Especially like in la it's such an expensive city. I think I've, I've only had the misfortune. and fortune of living in really expensive places. London, New York, la and this LA housing. There's an affordable housing crisis here. And it's just like, it's no surprise that there are people. who have full-time jobs. and they live in their cars like that.

That's the thing that like blows my mind. I'm like, you have people who are. doing all the right things. Right? They went to school. Yeah. They got a job or they went, they have a trade. Like they are contributing to society. - And - They still can't afford an apartment. And even if you're not contributing to society, I don't believe that you should have to live on the street. You understand? Like, that's my view of the social contract. And it's just LA is terrifyingly expensive. LA is a place where like, rich people are nervous. So that makes you think like, what is going on here?

And I dunno, how does a mayor fix that? Because I think LA in many ways starts to suffer from all. of the bigger problems that America has. Federally sometimes. - Yeah. - You know, I dunno, - I hear what you're saying. If it, if it comes up while you're talking about the. homelessness and everything. I had two questions if I could sneak into. - It depends on what they are, Josh, but go ahead. - Okay. Well, one is about how you balance, or if you can balance making illegal something.

that can inevitably happen to a person. To me, the way that we've in America made. homelessness illegal. - Yeah. - Is like tantamount to making, becoming old illegal. - Yeah. - But it's an inevitability under. certain circumstances. - Yeah. - Yes. And then. - It is, it is something that is. completely out of your control. - Yeah. Yeah. And then the second thing is about if she. feels the need or thinks there will be a need. to override. or overpower the people in the way that a lot.

of la residents end up voting against their own interests. 'cause they're worried about their property value. They don't want this piece of land becoming Yeah. Single family housing or whatever. So then eventually someone may have to step in. and be like, I know that you think you're doing what's best. for you, but it's ruining everything. And if she thinks the state should have that type of power, if she thinks she'll have to do anything like that, because it's gonna keep getting worse, you know,

- It's a, it's a, it's the classic case of Nimbyism, right? Not in my backyard. Yes, - Exactly. - And it's so easy to become that person, Trevor. - Oh, it is. It is. - But I'm like, Louis, who's that? Who's that walking down the street? Can you go and check? Like, I'm like, who stole our lemons? Someone's been stealing my lemons from my lemon tree. We have a lemon thief. Oh my And goodness. And they take them in like bundles. And I'm like, who is, you just have to ask. Just ask me. I'd give you my lemons. There's a lemon thief.

And I'm like speaking to the neighbors about it. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be a socialist, and I'm getting furious about lemons. So. - Oh, wow. - The nimbyism It happens. It comes to all of us and we. - Just, it does it, it does come to all of us. Yes. It's funny, I used to steal lemons all the time, so well not steal. Actually, I used to walk around neighborhoods. with my mom when I was, when I was younger, and we would find all the streets. where people had fruit trees, and all we would do is just take, it was like blackberries. So you would.

- Steal people's fruit, - Blackberries, apples, lemons, limes, peaches, anything that we could find hanging. I, we didn't even think of it as stealing. It is a tree that is growing. - No, no. I If the thing is, they take a lot of the lemons, Trevor, they take like 10, 10 lemons at a time. And if you ask me, I will give them to you. - Wait, wait. How do you know, wait, how do you know it's one person taking 10 lemons. and not 10 people taking one lemon? - That's a good point. But I, I, my spirit tells me it's one person taking a bunch of lemon.

I just, on a spiritual level, you know, Nigerians, you know, you know, when feel you can feel it, you can feel something I something. - Inside said. - I just know it. I just know it. Maybe listen, people knock on the door and ask. I if you ask take, - I have never thought an owner. of a lemon tree cares about the lemons on it. - I know, I know. - I mean, the fact that they even say like, if life gives you lemons, make lemon like the f you know what I mean? Yeah. That tells you lemons themselves already. Not like a a a sort after produce. Okay.

Some, because think about, think. about what that phrase even means. It's like if life gives you lemons, if life brings the worst. to you, try and make something good out of it. And then Christiana, there're fighting like, this is my. - Worst. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just a grateful person. - Okay. - Even for the lemons in my life. - When I was growing up in the township in. South Africa, nobody had anything. And what I mean by that is, you, you had the very bare minimum, everyone had a basic structure.

You know, sometimes you didn't have running. water inside the house. So there was a shared tap. or faucet, you know, that, that connected a few houses. that were outdoor toilets, et cetera. Everyone had nothing the bare minimum. And because of that, everyone shared. everything with everyone. And what I mean by that is like space. Like someone would walk through your yard to get. to another yard. and it was just like, yeah, this is the. shortest way possible. So you would walk through your neighbor's backyards all the. time and you just greet people.

Hello, hello, hello, hello. It was like, yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, what do you, of course you need to move. through my space to get. to another space and it's convenient. I get that. And there, there were all of these instances. where people were quote unquote infringing on another. person's space. But it wasn't felt that way. It wasn't, it wasn't treated that way. And interestingly, you'd see one family in the neighborhood, they would start to do, well, you know, a parent.

of theirs would get a job in the city or whatever it was. And then they would build a wall would be the first thing. they'd build around their house. The houses had no walls. And then there'd be a wall. And then they would put like spikes on the top of their wall. so that you couldn't climb over the wall. And then they would get a car at some point, and then they would get, and it's amazing how. as the people got more money, they became more. and more isolated from the community around them. They stopped speaking to people as much. They stopped getting the occasional weak tie.

that would meander through their yard. and have a random conversation with them. Their children played in their yard. and were never in the street. And all of a sudden became ostracized from the other kids. And it's amazing to me how in this machine that we live in, we've all been conditioned. and we've all been taught to get as much as possible. But then in that, you know, like, like the ring from Lord. of the Rings, once you have your precious, you, you, you, you are terrified of sharing it with anyone. or anyone taking it from. - You. Yeah.

- And so you have to become like a, like a, a goem. that goes into a cave and hides with your precious. And we don't realize what we lose funny enough. You know, and, and by the way, I, I'm guilty of it in many ways. I think many of us are. But you take. for granted what you lose. You take for granted the fact that you are constantly not. with the people around you. because you're constantly afraid that they will want. to take the toasters in your garage, when in fact. you don't need that toaster. You didn't care for that toaster. Yeah. And the thing you actually need in your life is community. and somebody to look after your kids who you actually like,

who you didn't hire from an app. who's forced to be on that app. Oh my God. God. Because they also don't have, it's just like a, it's just like a wild, you're. - Speaking my language. It's funny. Lewis walks with Obie every day to school. Yeah. So he does about 10,000 steps a day, which in LA makes him a crazy person. 'cause no one works. It really does. Walks in LA every time. we walk in, we run into friends who are driving. They're like, why are you walking? And Louis is, were like, well, this is the way we see people. and we see the world and we get to know our neighbors. And in a car centric city like this, that.

where your friends can live completely across town. Yes. It's really isolating. And there aren't many ways to actually find. that community you're talking about. You know what I mean? Because you're always in your car. or you are always at work, and then you go. and buy something from the. supermarket and then you come home. - Yes. - And I, I, it's something I've been being like, oh, I'm in la I know all these people, but I never get to see them. And it's 'cause like, everyone's in their own mini fortress. And if you want to go on a date, you have. to hire a babysitter through an app. who may quit two weeks later. Not that that happened to me, but maybe it happened to me.

- Yeah. But yeah. Okay. We're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump. get ready for the mayor. We're gonna talk about homelessness crime. and what it is like being the first. woman, I think. And then the second African American mayor in la. which is pretty wild. It's crazy that in 2023 there are still first anythings. - Yeah. - But let's get into it. Mayor Karen Bass,

Mr. Trevor Noah. Well, well, well, how are you? Good. We're rolling. Oh, okay. Then, then we can, we can jump into it. I guess jumping straight into it in, in the most apt way possible. Congratulations. You just celebrated one year. - Yes. - Of being the mayor of Los Angeles. - Yes. It has been an exhilarating year. Yeah. Really has.

- How many moments have you regretted taking the job? - You know what? I haven't. - You haven't. - I really haven't. - No. Not even once. - No. - I don't know if I believe that. - No, but I will tell you though, I wake up some mornings going I'm a mayor. But, but no regrets. No. - It's, it's a massive job. - It is. - Being a mayor of any city is, is a monumental task. Being the mayor of Los Angeles is,

I mean, is akin to being, you know, a governor in some places. - Right? That's - Right. And a president in other places. - This is - True because of how much your job entails. Let's, let's get into that aspect of it. to help me understand, and I think for many people who will be listening to this, what what is the mayor of Los Angeles tasked with doing? What is what, what is under your scope? What are you capable of doing? What are you not capable of doing? What's the job of mayor? - Well, let me give you a couple of examples. The job, Los Angeles is one city in a county.

of 88 cities. Los Angeles just happens to be largest. A mayor is not in charge of schools. The mayor is in charge of the police department. and 44 other city departments. But social services like healthcare and the jails. and other poverty related programs, I'm not in charge of. Huh. So I work in conjunction with the county. Now, the good news for me is that. because I've been involved in politics, not just.

as elected office, yes. But I'm being on the ground as an organizer. and activist, I have deep, long-term relationships. with everybody on every level. So that has helped me tremendously. - It's funny you say, not schools, particularly you. I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, you're speaking to the mayor, talk to her about the schools. - Right. - Talk to her about the schools. - I'm happy to talk about 'em, but I have no authority to go. Do you have. - No authority over them? No, - I do not. - Do you, do you think people know what you, what you have authority over and what you don't? Oh, no. - Absolutely not. But I'm gonna tell you something, Trevor,

this is my third office. I was in the state office. and the federal office, people have no idea. what any of these offices do. So whenever I have a community meeting, I have. to spend the first half hour doing civics. - I wonder who, who do you, who do you think we should blame that? Is that, is that schooling, is that education? Is it. - No, I think it's our American culture. - In what way? - Because Americans are very. apolitical, ahistorical. Now ask somebody about a sports team or a celebrity, and they can tell you everything.

Ask them who governs the schools. and who takes care of the trash. And I don't know. It's, it's the Congress person. - They can tell you exactly how many home. runs somebody has hit. - Exactly. - But not who's running their neighborhood. - That's right. - Your, your journey is in many ways, almost, it's almost perfectly designed for you. to be at this moment in your life. You know, I was, I was reading through your history. and through your life, and I mean, it's, it's quite a story journey when, when you were a young girl,

your, your father really, I guess, inspired you and, and, and, you know, through the things that he showed you. inspired you to become an activist. - Right. - You wanted to be part of changing your world. That's not what most kids want. That's not what most kids dream of. What was it about activism that made you think, I want. to get involved in that? - Well, you know what, I think it was the time period, the historical time period when I grew up. where change was happening all over the country. and really all over the world. So it was the Civil rights movement. And as a kid, I was watching it on TV with my father,

and he would explain to me what the south was like, because he was from the south. - Right. - He was part of that generation. that came post World War ii. - And so you thought to yourself, this is it. - Absolutely. All I wanted to do was hurry up. and grow up so that I could be a part of a movement. That's what I wanted to do. - What was the first movement you were a part of. - Really at school? You know, working as a, a middle school activist, and then the first campaign I worked on was Bobby Kennedy's. presidential campaign. Wow. And I was in the ninth. - Grade. Wow. What were you doing as part of the campaign?

- Oh, you know what I did? I signed up my mother to be a precinct officer. - Really? - But I did it. She never knew, not until many years later. So I went up and down my block. I knocked on the doors. and I told them why I thought. Bobby Kennedy would be the best president. - And what, what were you saying at this age? Was saying, saying, why did you think he'd be the best. president? - Well, you know, there were two. things that were happening then. It was 19 67, 68. Yes. It was the war in Vietnam. And it was the student movement. and the Civil rights movement.

It was kind of the end of the Civil rights movement. The b Black power movement. - Yeah. - And I was talking about. how I thought he would end the war. and how I thought he would improve, you know, civil rights. And I was very passionate about it. I believed it very deeply. And then when he was assassinated, my whole world just collapsed. because then I really kind of lost faith. and said, I mean, Martin Luther King was killed. - Right. - Kennedy was killed. And people, activists were being killed every day. Student activists, black Panthers, you know,

there were always these murders. And so that made me really kind of, for a few years, kind of lose a little hope. So I left the country. When I graduated high school, I was 17. I had never been anywhere, you know, my family, I had never been on an airplane, but I, I worked through school and I graduated on Thursday. and I left the country on Tuesday. and didn't know what the heck I was doing. - Where did you go? - I went to London. and woke up the next day in a hostel going, what did I just do? But fortunately I brought a round trip ticket,

- But - I, 'cause I thought I was. leaving. I mean, I'm done. - You thought you were gone forever? - Yeah, I did. - What brought you back then? - Well, fortunately I had a round trip ticket. Right. But when I was over there, they were, people were protesting. to free Angela Davis. And I knew Angela Davis. I met her because she was a teacher at UCLA, and I used to ride my bicycle to UCLA. and sit in her classes. And so I felt kind of embarrassed that people. around the world were. - Fighting to free - To free somebody I knew. - Yeah. - And so I went home. and I said, no, I need to go home.

and I have to make change at home. And that's where I've been, - You know, making change is, is a, a task. that I think oftentimes sounds a lot easier than it is. - Because - I think many people want to make change. Most people do not want to put the work in for that change. to actually take place. - Yeah, - That's true. If I say to an activist, what is the hardest part of being an activist, they will say. to me, it's realizing how slow change actually is.

- On - The ground. How slow it actually is. People talk about Karen Bass. before she was Karen Bass working in state office. or in on a, on a federal level, or as, as mayor, everyone says, you were, you were connected to the people. - Right. - You had this affinity for the people. That's right. For, for, for what was. happening on the ground. I guess my question is, is two parts. One, do you think that has led to, or that has been part of the reason you've been able.

to be successful politically? And secondly, what do you think other politicians miss. by not being on the ground before they get into politics? - Well, I think what a lot of people miss is their purpose. Like, why are they running for office? Why are they there? - Hmm. - I think a lot of people look at it as a career. or they say, well, I'm running for this. because I'm gonna run for that. To me, I've always been driven by the issues. And I think it's always critical to leave your ego outside. and stay focused on what you're trying to do.

But Trevor, you hit it for why? I've been happy now because I'm back on the ground. and I'm back doing things that I was trying. to do really 30 years ago. - Right. - But I was, you know, I was a community activist, running a community organization, but I didn't have the authority or the power. We were trying to deal with homelessness in 1993. We were trying to take over motels. and everybody thought we were crazy. - Was it, was it worse back then or. - No, no, no, no. It's no homelessness then was in South Central and Skid Row.

- Okay. - And it was probably, we didn't, we didn't count, but I could guess it was probably maybe three or 4,000. And just think now in the city, not the county, in the city, it's 46,000. - 46,000. 46,000 in the city. - Alone. That's right. If you add the county, you gotta add another 20,000. That's why you see tents everywhere. Before we didn't have tents. There were shopping carts. That's what homeless people did, was push shopping carts. And then the grocery industry figured out the technology. so they couldn't get the shopping carts. - And that's changed. And that's why we see the tents now.

- Right. That's right. - So let's, let's talk about the issues. and I guess how they, I mean, they, they're inextricably intertwined with what you do now. Right? When, when your campaign launched, it very quickly became a national campaign. that was about a local, you know, race. I, I, I don't think I've ever seen a mayoral race get the, the amount of attention that this race did. Oh. You know, you were running against. - Caruso. Right. - And it, it was this race where I think he was spending,

I think in total, he spent a hundred million dollars, $104 million, if my numbers are correct, - That's right. - On the ground. - That's right. - Your campaign spent $5 million. A little. - More, a little more. Yeah. How much was it exactly? I raised 9 million. and then other people contributed five. So it was. - Okay. So the, okay, so the external contributions were. five and then Okay. But I mean, still that's, that's. - Exactly right. - That's a huge return versus the spending. Let's start with that. Do you think there is too much money.

in political races now? - Oh gosh, yes. And the problem is, is that if you have personal wealth, there are no limits at all. I was subject to limits. I mean, I could only ask somebody for $1,500, so my $1,500 and he could write a $40 million check. And it was, you know, he's worth 5 billion. So, wow. You know, a hundred million is, I don't know, tip money. - Wow. Yeah. That's a huge difference. - Exactly. - Was there, was there a part of you. that thought to yourself, what am I doing? I'm running against this guy. No, I mean, I mean, is the guy who, he made the grove,

people were like, we love the grove. Yes, I do too. He can make, can he make all of La the grove? It seemed like such a wonderful proposition. That's right, that's true. And here you were running up. against what seemed like an immovable. - Object, right. - Just grinding. and, you know, going from one speech to the next, from one issue to the to the other. You were both talking about the same issues, but in very different ways. - Right. - And it seems like, I mean, the votes turned out accordingly. It seems like your message resonated. with voters in a different way. because la you know, like many cities in America.

and in the world, in my opinion, post COVID has really been dealing with a, an explosion of homelessness. - That's right. - Everybody has an opinion on this issue. Very few people have offered solutions. in and around this issue, - And very few people have an understanding of the issue. - Well, let's start with that. What is causing this. rise in homelessness? Why is it that you have just as you said, in the city alone, 40,000 homeless people? - That's right. Well, you know what, it's important.

to look at the categories of people that wind up unhoused. Yeah. They might not be able to be in a house. because their wages aren't high enough. But it also might be that they've been evicted before. Their credit is bad. They were incarcerated. They might be a teenager. You know, there's 9,000 children who are unhoused. with their parents. Wow. And then there's also a lot of foster children. that when they term out of foster care at 18, they have no 18 or 21, they have nowhere to go. Or you don't have first and last month's rent. So there's the economically unhoused,

but, you know, the fastest growing sector of, of homeless people are senior citizens. who are in their late sixties and seventies. Maybe they worked in a shopping mall all their life. No, 401k, no pension. You can't live here on social. security. Yes. If you even have. - It. Yes. - And then they get priced outta the rental market. and they are homeless. - That has to be one of the scariest stats I've read. And in many ways, one of the most pertinent I feel, because when people have conversations about homelessness,

I, I've, I've noticed that there is oftentimes a, it's almost like a resentment. that people have towards the homeless themselves. - Well, because they believe that they're homeless. because of their own fault or bad decisions. Right. But, but they, and they don't look at the. - Circumstances. I mean, that says something about a situation. that's larger than just like people who wanna take drugs. and not live anywhere. - Exactly. And that is a common viewpoint that everybody. who is unhoused is either a drug addict or mentally ill. And of course, that does comprise some people.

But, you know, if I was out on the street for a couple. of weeks, I can't tell you I wouldn't use drugs. And I can't tell you that my mental health. wouldn't be compromised. Right. A lot of times it's the chicken and egg. You know how some people get addicted? They take meth to stay awake at night, so they don't get assaulted. You have women suffering from domestic violence. You know, there's a lot. You have veterans, and listen to this one, this one's crazy. A veteran winds up homeless because he. or she might take veteran benefits.

- Yeah. - Then that means they make too much money. to qualify for veteran housing. So they have to choose between their benefits or housing. So all of these reasons are why people wind up homeless. You have a lot of people who were formerly incarcerated. and they can't go home. because their brother might be a felon. and they don't have any place to go, and nobody's gonna rent to them, and no one's gonna hire them. So, you know, it's a lot of circumstances. that have led to the explosion. And what I describe is, is.

that number one is the evisceration of the social safety net. that we used to have, - Which was - Really bad. Well, we had better he healthcare in terms. of substance abuse and mental health. There were programs that people could be in and, and LA used to be a heck of a lot cheaper. This city used to be affordable. I remember that where I worked as, as a young person, worked part-time, went to school, and still afforded to live on my own. You couldn't possibly do that now. So all of these reasons lead to the problem.

But I also believe. that really bad policy decisions were made when I started. Community Coalition 32 years ago. That's when it was the war on drugs and all the laws. Instead of helping people with addiction by drug treatment, we just locked everybody up. And then now 30 years later, we're letting them all out to the street. So the reason why I ran, because I was perfectly happy in. Congress, you know, that you inter. - Yes. - Interviewed me. I told you how much I loved Africa. That was my, yeah. Big thing.

It was a hard decision to leave, but I was so afraid that if he won. that we were gonna have flashbacks to 1990s. and we were gonna start criminalizing the very people. because people get so angry. That's why it was so important for me to win. and to prove that the problem was solvable. by getting people out of the tents and into motels. - We're gonna continue this conversation right. after this short break.

on day one, after winning the race, you, you, you stepped into your role. and the first thing you did was declare states of emergency. - Correct. - Now, as I understand that, that gives you. a breadth of power that you don't necessarily normally have. - Right. - And it enabled you to do things. that you felt needed to be done immediately. - Right. - One of those, which was controversial, and I understand why, is you wanted to get. as many people off the streets and into hotels.

Help me, help me understand this. and help, help the listeners understand this concept. of taking people who don't have homes, you know, unhoused people, homeless people, and then putting them into hotels. Whose hotels are these, who's paying for the hotels, and why is that even considered a part of a solution? - Sure. Well, you know, the interesting thing was. because we all went through COVID, that's exactly. what happened in COVID. So we didn't invent anything new. - We - Learned from that experience. And guess what, nobody was going to hotels. or motels during that time, so it was fine.

So we're not putting people up in the Four Seasons. We're putting people up in the snooty fox. I mean. - Right, right. - In, in motels that are in the community. And I think that the motel owners that didn't want anything. to do with us years ago realized this. was a pretty good deal. They didn't have to rent their rooms by the day. or in some places by the hour. Right. They didn't have to do that. They had guaranteed. customers, guaranteed tenants all month, because we try to rent out the entire. - Motel. - And then we contract as the city. with a community-based organization.

They provide the meals and the social services. So people aren't just left there on their own. They have counseling, they have services, and they have three meals. - Is this, is this a viable long-term solution? - No. - Okay. 'cause in my head, I don't think putting people in a hotel forever seems like. it's gonna, it's gonna work long term. No, even just as a, on a, on a cost. - Level. Right. I think it's gonna work for a few years. Okay. But we are also fast tracking the building of housing. So that's the big problem here in LA is that for. so many years, the no growth.

or slow growth movement, restricted building housing. And so we didn't build the housing that we need. For example, the state requires us, has required us. to build half a million units. of housing in the next 10 years. Now, not we're gonna make that happen, but literally we're required to do that. and we will be fined if we do not accomplish that. - And so is this, is this a number that is based on. how the population is projected to grow? - Exactly. And also what the population's needs are now.

So for example, there's a lot of people. who are not considered homeless, - But - There's three families living in a. one bedroom apartment. - Mm. - And I consider that homeless, unless they choose to live like that. And, and not too many people do. Right. They're living like that because they need three paychecks. in order to pay the rent. Why is the rent so high? Because there is a, a, a severe shortage of housing. So because the no growth. and slow growth movements were so successful all up. and down California, the state legislature got tired.

of the nimbyism on a local level, started passing a lot. of state laws to preempt the blocking of building. And then what I was able to do, especially. after declaring a state of emergency, it did give me the extra power so I could cut. through the red tape to say, let's fast forward building. So that's what I'm doing now. We are putting people in motels, but we're also fast tracking the building. and that half a million units. I'm not, I'm referring to all types of housing, not just housing for the poorest in our city.

- Do you, do you think that. the homeless issue that we are seeing, particularly in urban areas, and particularly in, in, in, you know, democratic strongholds is a problem that is. in, in, in many ways, I feel like it could be a problem. that is seen as a failing. of the whole party if it isn't worked on. Because, you know, the Democratic Party for. so long has said, we are the party.

of the people on the ground. You know, and, and where the Republicans have said, Hey, we, we are about business and we're about, you know, tax breaks, et cetera, et cetera. But if you have democratic cities. that have high homeless populations, it seems like the promise is failing. It seems like, you know, the allure. of the idea isn't what's, what, what it's supposed to be. Do you, do you feel like there's an extra weight on you. as a mayor of Los Angeles to prop up, you know, one. of the legs of the Democratic party's table?

- No, I don't feel that. But I feel incredible pressure in order. to get this problem solved. - Pressure from Absolutely. From the people. - Just, well, it's internal pressure. I mean, this is why I'm, I'm doing this, this is why I ran, this is why I've loved my first year, because nothing gives me more pleasure than to go out. to the tents where the people are, to talk to them. And then to see them three days later in a motel. or a week later, you know, that I remember this one woman. who said she was taking showers all day long.

because she was so happy that she could take a shower. - Oh wow. - You know, there's, there's things like that Yeah. That make it extremely rewarding. - How many, how many people have you moved by the way? - In our program of Inside Safe, it's been, and that's where we're getting you in a tent. and moving you into a motel. - Okay. - It's been close to 2000, but this year as a whole, we've moved 21,000 off the street. And there's a variety of ways we have done that. - 21,000 people - Right. - Moved off the streets. - Right. So they've moved off the streets.

because we were given vouchers. and we were able to get people in housing. with those voucher vouchers. That's been one of the problems years pass, including like last year, LA turned back thousands. of vouchers to the federal government. because they couldn't figure out how to use them. Some of the red tape has been insane. I'll give you two examples. Make you crazy. Yeah. Please. One is, I can't let you use a voucher. unless you prove income. Well, you've been on a, in a tent for five years.

How do you prove nothing? - Right. - And then I can't let you use a voucher. because you don't have a government issued id. Well, if you gave me a motel, I'd have an address. where I could have a government issued id. So I went to the federal government to hud. and fortunately, our great HUD secretary, Marsha Fudge, who I served in Congress with, spent months talking to them. And now they've waived that. They said, well, you know what, I'm gonna assume you're poor. enough because you've been living on the streets. - Right. Right. - So that barrier went away.

So that allowed people to, to get housed. - So it's, it's so crazy how often you hear that. as a story in America. It's like, it becomes the, the cycle. It's, it's really just chicken and the egg. Chicken and the egg. Yep. Egg and chicken. Chicken and the egg. You know, I, I remember hearing a story. of a, a man who was living out of his car, and he was sleeping in the car in Santa Monica. And then because he was sleeping in the car, he got fined. Because he got fined. He now had to pay the fine.

He couldn't pay the fine. And so then he got a summons. - Right. - He got a summons to appear in court. He couldn't go to court. because he was gonna either lose his job or go to court. And so then there was a warrant out for his arrest. And then now he had a warrant. And now here you, you have this person. who is now basically gonna go to jail, possibly when all they were trying to do. well was sleep and live. Well, - Well, he also might have gotten his car towed. - Yeah. This, - And he can't get his car out, which means he's now lost his car.

- Yeah. - Which means he's lost his job, which now he's in a tent. - So, so have you, have you found ways to decriminalize. - Yes. - Being homeless. because it's, you, you know, Josh, who, who's, you know, one. of the people on the podcast, we, we, we talk about each episode. before we go on, he said something that I really loved, which was, he said, it's interesting how America. will criminalize something that may be inevitable. and out of your control. - Right. - Because other crimes are an action, an action.

that you should have been able to avoid. Being homeless isn't one of those, how do you, how do you criminalize something like that? And what have you done to, if you've done anything to, to decriminalize being homeless? - Well, you hit on why, what my concern was about my opponent as that, and that was my flashbacks to the 1990s, is that the level. of anger and disgust in the city toward the unhoused. population was so high. - Right. - That I was afraid if the wrong person won,

that they would just criminalize folks. Because there was a lot of talks about three strikes, meaning I'm gonna give you two tickets, and on the third ticket, if you don't move, or if you haven't disappeared, I don't know. where you're supposed to go to, then I'll arrest you. Now you get arrested, you're gonna be out in five hours, and you're either gonna be right back there. or you'll be someplace else. It doesn't solve the problem. That was my fear. That was my drive. So I didn't care how bad the campaign got. That was my passion about winning this election.

- It's a, it's a tight rope to walk. As mayor, I always think, you know, because you're in this interesting position where. on the one hand you have to deal with everything. that is happening. - Right. - On the other hand, you have to deal. with everything that people think Exactly. Is happening. Yes. Yes. And the think is oftentimes more powerful than the what is. Yes. If people feel like there's more crime, - Right. - Then they, they think there's more crime. Right. So they act accordingly, even if the crime hasn't gone up.

And, and I, I, I wonder how you deal with that. - The way I view it is crime is an emotional issue, and if your car was stolen, there's a crime crisis. - Oh yeah, definitely. - And you do not. care about the data. Or if you go back to. what you were saying a few minutes ago in terms. of democratic cities, well, the reason why crime is up is. because we've been too liberal and we don't enforce the law. - Yes. - But you could look at Republican led cities. and the crime is even higher, or definitely no difference regardless. of the laws that have been passed. So why do, why do.

- You think, why do you think then the narrative is around. urban cities and democratic cities? What, what, what do you think that is? - Well, I mean, I think part of it is race. Absolutely. So you asked me, the pressure I feel is the. nation's second largest city. Absolutely. I feel the pressure because the perception is, and, and it is a deliberate narrative. that Republicans are good at pushing. So look at New York, a hundred thousand migrants sent. to New York, but we have buses coming into la.

but not to the extent of Chicago or New York. You can't tell me that's not done. to destabilize those cities. And Chicago, you have a brand new mayor. He's been in less time than I am. He has to hope to host the Democratic convention. in the next few months. Imagine that pressure. So some of it has been orchestrated and pushed. It's a Republican narrative. And what's, what do we have in common with the large cities? There are predominantly people of color. And so regardless of what the crime rate is, they will say the crime is out.

of control in democratic led cities, their murder rate is higher, their crime rate is higher. - Well, generally, where there's more guns, that there are more people being shot. - You think, - I find it, it's a very simple. stats to follow, by the way. It's, it's not as complicated as people would think. - Right. - But, but that doesn't mean. that LA doesn't have its issues. - Yes. - How do you, how do you find the balance. between being a mayor who is.

actively trying to make people feel safe, whilst at the same time acknowledging that for a long time. people have felt and beyond feeling, people have experienced over policing. - Right. - That makes them feel unsafe at the very. safe, at, in the, you know what I mean? At the very same hands of Oh yes. The people who are trying. to pro quote, unquote protect them. Like how do you, how do you find that balance? Because I'm sure on the one hand, every time you say police, police force protect, et cetera, there's going.

to be a contingency of your base. who says, what, what are, what are you doing? Why are you even working with the police? - Exactly. - The police are, are the bad guys, quote unquote, in many ways. And then on the other hand, you have a large part of your, your constituency who will say, no, why aren't you working more with the police? Right. Why aren't you fully handing over to the police? How do you, how do you strike. that balance? How do you walk the line? - So one thing about, about a city, and I certainly have to to say this to some people. who come from either or perspective, it's both. And so I set up an office of public safety.

that's a traditional office works with the police. and fire, et cetera. But I also set up an office of community safety, which is not looking at law enforcement driven solutions. So I have always been about how do you prevent crime? So when I started a community coalition in the nineties, the first thing we did was organize a youth component. to recruit high school students so they wouldn't get 'em in, get involved in gangs because we had the Crips in the Bloods. and a thousand homicides, you know, that particular year.

Yeah. So I wanted. to divert young people away from gang involvement. And by the way, that was building on my own life experiences. growing up because, and a Panther party did that a lot. Yeah, they did. As a matter of fact, there was a lot. of gangs involved, but they got young people involved in politics. So that's what I did. That's, I got involved when I was older in high school. Then I was involved in a lot of direct political activity, whether it was protesting the war. or whatever was happening at that particular time. And so we, we involved a lot of high school students,

and I have to tell you that two. of those high school students are working. for me heading up the homeless effort, the street outreach. - Wow. - And they are now in their mid forties. - That is amazing. - Exactly. That's. - Actually amazing. Do you, do you think, do you think that the government, both large and small, has done a, has done a terrible job. of reaching out to people? You know, 'cause it's interesting you talk about the gangs. I've always said, and I've always been fascinated by.

how gangs do the very thing. that governments say they're unable to do, and that is reach out to every youth. and make sure that they feel involved. - Right. - There is no gang that ever says, ah, you can't get to the kids. There's no gang that ever says, we can't get them involved. They're not interested. Right. They go out there, they have outreach. They really just try and connect with people. And I mean, it's towards, you know, a, a violent cause. Right. Unfortunately. But the essence of it is, is, is fundamentally sound. Like, do you, what do you think the government could be.

doing to, to to, to reach out. and to connect with young people. to make them feel like there's a. hope that they can work towards? - And you know, what I found over the years is. that it is not difficult. It's just that we are not committed to doing it. Because what we did is we. provided a safe alternative for gangs. What a lot of people who are drawn to gangs, a lot. of young people are, it's a surrogate family. It's doing what you described. It's providing you protection. It might be providing you an income.

It's providing you all of these things in a way. - Right. - Well, if you. provided those things in a positive way, people would not get involved. But as a society, we refuse. to invest in long-term solutions. We always invest in law enforcement. and suppression activities. - Right. - But we will not address root causes. That's why I started the organization in the nineties. That's why we started the youth component. And I'm happy to say that 30 some years later now,

it's been about three or four cohorts, almost generations. of young people who graduate out of that program. And they become involved in some way in their communities. Now they're all over the country. And we've tracked them and stayed connected to them. And now that program, that model has been replicated around the country. But I do not find it to be difficult. I find that we just refuse to invest the resources. - When, when you talk about enjoying. and exhilarating year of being mayor, I wonder.

what your most frustrating moments have been. I know you're a very positive person. - Yeah. - But I, but I'd love to know. what you wish you could have done more of, or what you wish you could have done. Like are there, are there aspects of your job where you go, I, I wish I could do this, but I can't. - Every day. But I will tell you, I wished I knew. what I know now about the bureaucracy, and I'm afraid that there's so much more. I don't know. So in other words, I gave you two, two crazy examples. Three, if you include the veterans who.

- Don't - Qualify. - Yes. Right. The vouchers. - But there's a lot. of internal bureaucracy that is just done. because it's always been done. And that's one thing, that's one statement. that makes me crazy. We do it this way because we've always done it this way. Well, how's that working out for you? 46,000 people on the street. So d doesn't it make you think. that maybe there's a better way of doing things? - Yeah. - So just the inertia of, well, this is the way it's always been done. Or for people who think, well I can't do something differently.

That's where it's been helpful that I never worked. for the city before. So I feel like I just parachute it in. and this stuff looks crazy. And so, and I'm, I don't believe, I mean to me, I'm not gonna violate the law. But if it's not a law, then don't tell me I can't do it. If there's people dying on the street, don't tell me I can't get them off the street. Hmm. But what our policy basically had been up. until now is you have to stay on the street. until we build you a house.

That's insanity. You asked me whether or not we would do the motels forever. Yeah. No, it's way too expensive. But what our city did that New York didn't do, or rather I should say, what we didn't do, and New York did New York years ago, invested in long-term interim housing. - Yes. - And New York also passed a policy. that says you have a right to housing. So we never developed long-term interim housing. We said, we don't want anybody in interim housing. We want them permanently housed. Well, that's just wonderful.

But then you have this bureaucracy. that it takes five years to build something. So I've been trying to dismantle all. of these bureaucratic hurdles, but I had to learn them. and I wished I would've come in knowing about them. - What's, what's the one thing you wanna do now? Like if I know there's something on your list Yes. That you're working towards. Yes. Something that you're trying to overturn. Something you're trying to change. Something you're trying to fix. What is. - It? So we have the people in the motels, and as I mentioned, a community-based organization takes over.

But Trevor, we have stretched these organizations way. beyond their capacity. - Yeah. - So now I'm trying to think of a new way. to provide the kind of supportive services that people need. Because I don't think you stay in housing your. whole life for free. Right. Well, that's a good deal if that was the case. But I think two years. with strong supportive services should be able. to mainstream most people out. But then there are people that are profoundly mentally ill. who will need to be taken care of the rest of their life.

So you asked me, what I hope to do next is pay attention. to the service delivery for the people. that are in the motels. And then fast track as fast as possible. The building of housing. - It feels like there was a time in America when. mental health was maybe not spoken about more, but definitely dealt with more. That's correct. It feels like there was a That's correct. It feels like there were more mental, you know, hospitals. There were, there were places where people could go. for psychiatric care. It. Right. And it, it almost feels like that's fallen away.

as, as an idea. It's, it's like one minute the hospitals existed. and now those hospitals have sort of been replaced. by jails and prisons. - Well that's one. A hundred percent. What happened was 50 years ago when Ronald Reagan was, was. a governor, and then he goes on to be president, basically dismantled all of the hospitals. because bad things were happening in them. But we, we closed the hospitals, but then we made a commitment. that we would build community-based. services. Never happened. - Oh, okay. - It never happened.

So now in California next year, voters will have an opportunity to vote for. what we should have done 50 years ago. So you are a hundred percent right. That's why it, us not having enough money is a lie. because it costs way more money to incarcerate somebody. - Right. - Than it does to take care of them. Just like you asked me about gangs. Our country, our city, our state has refused. to invest in our people. And especially people who are the poorest.

We have no problem saving the world or destroying the world. However you wanna look at it. I mean, if it's the defense budget, it's unlimited. Right. We think nothing of 50. or $60 billion that we're gonna give to another country for, you know, a war that they're fighting. or rebuilding that they need to do. But we refuse to invest in American people. This is the richest country in the history of the world. It is inexcusable for people to be sleeping on the street. - Don't go anywhere. 'cause we got more. What now after this,

if there was one part of your job that you could include, like one thing that you currently don't have. under your umbrella, but you wish you did, what would it be? What would you love to work on? - Health. - What. - Aspect of what? It would be the health department. It would be my ability. to control the health department. and some of the county agencies.

- What would you, what would you change? - Well, I, I would definitely infuse healthcare. in much bigger ways. So for example, health is at the root. of a lot of homelessness. But right now, homelessness is just viewed. as a housing problem. And it's, and the disconnect, because you know, my background, by the way, I have a lot of lives. One of my other lives was working in the emergency room. - Yes, yes. - As a nurse and all that. Right. PA nurse. And so I do not understand, it does not compute to me.

that you don't see the relationship. between health and homelessness. I met a woman in a temporary housing. who became homeless because she had cancer. So she was sick. She didn't understand why she was sick. She kept missing work. She got fired. She went to, the doctor, discovered she had cancer. She didn't have healthcare either. - Oh no. - So she wound up living in her car. and then she lost her car. And then she wound up living on the street. And I met her as she was on the men, you know,

she was in a temporary housing. Yeah. So a lot of health conditions out there. Everybody thinks about substance abuse and mental health. - Yeah. - But I've seen diabetes, I've seen heart disease, I've seen high blood pressure. I've seen a lot of different health issues. - Especially living in a country. where people cannot afford to get sick, you know? Right. That's one of the biggest things I've noticed people. terrified of in America. You know, when I'm, I speak to random people, when I listen. to stories, people will say, my greatest fear is that I will get sick. - Right. - In this country. Because the first thing I need.

to do is go see a doctor. I don't know if I can afford to do that. Right. And then if I eventually do get to see a doctor, the thing they tell me may be the fact that I cannot afford. to live anymore. And so they wait until it's too late. It's an emergency room issue. - Right. - And as you, like you say, before you know it, someone's living on the street. because they spent their life savings. trying to save their life. - Well, prior to Obama. and the Affordable Care Act, health was the number one, the leading cause of bankruptcy. The leading cost. But I have to tell you something, Trevor,

when I worked in healthcare, this was not the case. Healthcare was not always a for-profit industry. That changed in the eighties. One thing that was completely considered inappropriate was. advertising medicine. Yeah. Advertising healthcare that wasn't legal. - It's really strange when you see it, by the way, when you come from another country, every second ad in the US is. like a pharmaceutical ad, a drug ad. And it's really strange. Ask your doctor about, and it's like, what?

- But it'll tell you 20 reasons why you'll die if you take. this medicine too. Which by the way is completely legal. Meaning that it is to protect them from. - Lawsuits. Right. - It really isn't medically based. - You are somebody who all your colleagues have, have, have labeled your two things. They say you are, you are tenacious. and they say you are motivated, and even speaking to you, I can see you, you have a, you have a cautious optimism, but also a joy in, in trying. to solve the problems. You, you,

- I do. - Yeah. You, you, you have a, you, you, you take pleasure in, in, in solving the puzzle. Before I, I let you go, I'd love to know what now. I mean, we, you know, we've talked a little bit about. working with the homeless crisis. We, we've talked about, you know, law enforcement and, and it's, it's broader state right now. But if we look at year two, going into year three, and then your final year as, as mayor, what would you hope the people of Los Angeles.

and maybe the people in other parts of America would see? Because I think many of the issues in LA are mirrors. or different versions of issues. that you see all across the country. So what would you hope to now do going from year to year? - Well, I want, at the end of my term, I want people. to believe, to believe that the problem is solvable. Meaning it won't be solved, but that they can see the way out of it. - Hmm. - And by the way, I mean, we have the World Cup coming in 2026.

- Yes. - A Super Bowl in 2027. Two Olympic Games in 2028. So I am hoping that that will serve as a catalyst. I mean, the reason we're getting the Olympics is. because we don't need to build any major stadiums. - Yeah. - So I'm trying to run around. and get everybody to say, when the Olympics comes, we can't hide 70,000 people. 'cause then you're talking about the county. - Yes. Yes. - We can't hide them. The games aren't gonna be for one day. So we either solve this now. or what the news coverage is gonna be, wonderful games,

wonderful venues. And then they're gonna cut away. and show the contrast in this city. People are living like this. They're left to live in destitute. So I'm trying to get all of the movers. and shakers to see this is our alternative. And I actually believe that we can get there. I really do. - I really, I, I really hope so. Wow. Okay. Well, mayor Karen Bass, it's funny. Every time I speak to you, you have a different title in. front of your name, which is, which is really fun for me. This is.

- The last one. - Oh, it is? - Yes. - What does, what does - That mean? This is the last one. That means I'll run for reelection. I'm done with elected office after that. - Huh? Oh, no. I have to ask why before I let you go, - Because it, it's enough. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know, I think it's, it'll be time. It'll be time. But I will always be involved in change. - Okay. - I'm not somebody that ever planned. to do this all my life. - Yeah. - I was doing a lot. before this, so I'll always be involved in change, but I don't need to be an elected official until I die.

- Huh. I like that for you. I like that. And you know what? You you, you deserve it. You deserve it. Thank. - You. Thank you. Thank - You. Well, thank you so much. Congratulations. - Great to talk to you. Yeah. - Congratulations on the year. It's, it's really wonderful seeing you again. And you know, I hope when we're chatting in a year, we'll be celebrating the next achievement. and the next one and the next one. And I wish you the best of luck. because I think everybody wins if you win. - Thank you. Thank - You, thank you. Thank you. What now with Trevor Noah is produced.

by Spotify Studios in partnership. with Day Zero productions full well, 73. and Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weis Berman, and Barry Finkel. Produced by Emmanuel HSIs and Marina Hanky music, mixing. and mastering by Hannahs Brown.