Mark Cuban's Billionaire Luck! - What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

Oh, [Laughter]. >> that is another crash by Josh Johnson. This is this is all this episode is. going to be about. >> is will Josh Johnson make it to the end. of the episode? >> The drama in that hotel room. >> Everyone who's driving right now is is. is like gripping their steering wheel. tight. [Music]. This is What now with Trevor Noah.

[Music]. Happy Mark Cuban day everybody. >> Yeah, Mark Cuban. Yeah. Billionaire. Billionaire. Billionaire. [Music]. >> Oh man. How was your week, Josh? What. did you get up to? >> I'm doing great, man. I'm Oh, I'm in I'm. in Montana. I did blacksmithing for the. first time yesterday. I'm I'm a new.

person. >> What do you mean you did blacksmithing. for the first time? What does that even. mean? That's a strange way to say you. did somebody's job and then like. >> Yeah, >> I did I did accounting for the first. time yesterday and it was a lot of fun. It was really good. >> Yeah, I think I'm going to be an. accountant now. >> Yes. The way that I mean it is not is. not I did accounting. It's that I. counted yesterday. >> Yeah. >> I dipped my toes in. >> How was it? It was great. It's like it. it was um admittedly very difficult.

because the muscles that it requires are. not ones I've ever worked on because you. would think if you have if you have. biceps and you have good shoulders and. everything that you're going to hit the. the mallet just right and everything's. going to flatten out for you. But. >> but you need like you need like a beard, don't you? >> You need a beard and you need wrist. strength. >> I feel like. wrist strength. >> Yeah. Yeah. So there are muscles in the. forearm that I've never really we. haven't met. And so then me hitting the.

mallet and the and the metal was it was. doing a lot of bouncing back. >> Did you make something by the way? Yes. Or did you just did they just like they. just made you hit something like a. little child? Which which one was it? >> No, I made something. I made a. >> What did you make? >> Um a hook for my backpack to put on the. wall. >> A hook? Yeah. for my backpack to put on. the wall. >> What life are you living? >> Well, there was no time for me to make. something substantial. So, I really had.

to just learn all the basics. Like, I. had to learn the curve so that the. nothing catches on the hook. I had to. learn how to flatten out a piece so we. can screw it in. >> and then the functional. Oh, Lord. >> One second. Sorry. >> What just happened? >> What? What's Are you okay? >> Oh, yes. Yes. >> His wrist. >> No, no, no. I'm fine. >> His wrist is cramping. What's going on, Josh? >> I my my uh computer was about to die, so. I I had to grab the charger. >> Oh, okay. Just illprepared, you know, just. >> You're just so in the blacksmith mode.

You're not even thinking about the. technology anymore. You're just. >> Yeah, that was that was powerful. That. was a You had the same reaction I'm. assuming that Boeing pilot had on the. flight right now. That That's what your. face looked like right now. You were you. were having a calm, easy conversation. with us and then all of a sudden you're. like, "Oh god. Oh god. Oh no. >> Oh god. >> Let me see." Okay. [Laughter]. Oh man. >> Oh, that plug doesn't work. Oh no. >> This is giving like some good drama to.

the episode. It's like how long they. have Josh for? We don't know. 4% left. >> We don't know. We don't know. Will Will. he get it? Will he not get it? >> Did you get it, Josh? >> Yeah, I got it. Oh, man. That was. >> Oh, man. That was close. Cuz it tells. you too late cuz they'll tell you that. the that the battery low on the computer. and then it'll just say bye. >> It's It's an Irish goodbye. That's what. it is. >> Mhm. It texts you when it's already in. the car on the way home. Hey, I had to. leave. The battery was low.

Thank you so much for having me. I had a. great time. Oh, man. Have you been Have. you been following the story with the. with the Boeing planes, by the way? >> Yes. Yes. I've been enthralled. I've. done jokes about it. What's your. favorite joke you've told about it? >> We really been trashing Spirit for a. while now. And Spirit at least get the. whole plane there, right? When you pay. Spirit, Spirit is then like, "Okay, we. go get you and the plane there." And. then you you are on this Alaska.

Airflight, pieces of the plane start. coming off, and you're like, "Well, I. did pay $68." Like it like it just is. one of those things where I think as. Americans we are too bloodied from our. customer service experiences that we. don't even think we deserve full plane. >> That's funny. By the way, I was thinking. if I was if I was the passenger sitting. next to the passenger that the door. opened on cuz it was a really beautiful. story. I I don't know if you if you saw. any of the videos of the passengers. One. of them was made a video and she was.

talking about how. >> she was sitting in the window. Well, it. it's a window that was a door that then. turned into like an like an exit. >> and and she was sitting there. The thing. blew off and then the passengers around. her like held her like like they grabbed. her arms and they pulled her inwards. I. was like that is really that is a test. Every time we think that humanity is. terrible, we receive information to the. contrary. >> Mhm. >> You know, because I I won't lie to you. I don't know what I would do in that. situation, but what I think I would do.

is pull my hands away from the person. who is at the window. I I do not think I would reach towards. them. Yeah. If a if a door blows open. and there's a stranger next to me. reaching towards me, I would be like, "No, no, my friend. No, no, no. You. you're on you're on your own right now. This is your journey." You know. >> what you just said reminds me of this. meme where someone's drowning and their. hand is out looking for help and the. person just gives them a high five. It's. like bye. Yeah. Yeah. That's I'm just I.

I again I maybe in that scenario I would. I would be overcome by I don't know an. an instinct greater than myself to save. the person maybe. >> But thinking of me right now as Trevor, I think I would I would recoil. My body. would would would jump away from the. person at the window. >> Mhm. And then I I would Yeah. And then. as they reach for me, I would probably. like slap their hand away like while. they try like No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, you know what's been.

fascinating to me about this Boeing. story is is how many people don't seem. to understand the direct straight line. between companies cutting costs at all. costs and then consumers being in a. position where they're receiving an. inferior product. >> Mhm. >> B's just trying to cut costs. It's crazy. that they they said that they said that. door was held by four bolts. >> that weren't screwed in properly. I'm. pretty sure that they've had so many. problems with that Boeing that they've.

they've now when they do the in-flight. announcement, that first one, they. stopped saying what plane it was cuz. remember when you would be on Delta and. they'd be like, "We're we're so thankful. for you to join us on our trip on this. Airbus 447." Yeah, exactly. >> They've stopped doing that now. Now. they're just like, "Welcome. [Laughter]. >> Hope you make it. Welcome to your last. day on Earth. >> Yeah, thank you for joining us on your. trip to wherever. But they just I don't.

think they include that anymore cuz I. stopped hearing it. >> I think something good did come out of. this. Just saying. >> The door the door came out of this. What. was something good? >> The door definitely came out. But. there's a big divide in this country and. I feel like it was a win for one side. and that is my people, the ILC people. who are always being told. >> you're an IC person. >> and now I have an extra reason to be an. isc person. I can get up to the bathroom.

whenever I want. I have the power to let. other people pee or not. And now I'm not. going to get sucked out of a plane. So I. win. So thanks Alaska. No one died so. I'm good with it. to what Emanuel is. saying. There was one time someone was. very mean to me on a on a flight before. we took off and I was in the aisle and. they were in the middle and I just. pretended to be asleep so they couldn't. get up to pee. >> Incredible. Incredible power play. >> That UTI brought to you by Josh Johnson.

>> Yeah. I just like I really like leaned. cuz I was already napping on the tray. table and I felt them poke me and then I. was like, you know what, tray table nap. I'm like, I'm not getting up. I'm not. giving up. I'm not moving. >> That is amazing. Do you have any Do you. have any questions for Mark Hubman? Anything you're really interested to uh. to hear from him? >> Yes. You you read my mind. >> In a world where there is so much lack. and and uh and so much of a gap between. the sort of have and have not. How does.

someone like Mark Cuban maintain their. status as a beloved billionaire? Because. we're in a world now where. >> Oh, that's an interesting question. He. does. He seems to me to be just as. industrious as Elon or Bezos, but in. different things. And it doesn't seem. like his reach has has offended the. general public in the way that Elon and. Bezos have. How has he managed to have. be so many people's bosses and have so. much uh power, influence, and and. structure around himself and not drawn. the eye of the general public?

>> That's a that's a great question, Josh. >> Sweet. >> I thought you were going to ask. something random. >> Oh, no. But it seems like your time. blacksmithing, your time blacksmithing. has changed you. Yeah, Barry. >> Well, yeah. I mean, my question is, is. he willing to invest in Josh's backpack. hooks? Cuz I think it could be. I don't. know. It could be really big. So, >> see, I feel like what happened here is. Josh secretly sent you his question and. you sent him yours and you've all. tricked me here into not realizing where. the questions have come from. I know a.

Josh Johnson question when I smell it. I will not be asking him if he'll invest. in your backpack hooks. Emanuel, I'm. going to get one from you and then we're. going to jump into the interview. >> I really want to hear about before he. was super successful in business, he. tried to be an actor and he was in three. episodes of Walker Texas Ranger. >> Walker Texas Ranger. Yep. >> I want to hear about that. I'm just very. curious cuz now we think of him as $6.2.

billion. He's also 6'2. Conspiracy, Illuminati. That's a question. >> Um Mhm. >> I'll stop there. I think the questions. are getting worse. >> We'll leave the questions to you, Trevor. >> I actually think they were getting much. better. >> Yes. Is it a coincidence that your. height is the same as your money, Mark. Cuban? >> I think that's a great question. Conspiracy. >> All right, let's jump into it, y'all. Mark Cuban coming up.

[Applause]. [Music]. Mark Cuban, the one and only. Welcome to. the show. >> Thanks for having me on. >> Yeah, man. It's great great to have you. You know, you are when people think of. Mark Cuban, they go, "This is a human. being who seems to know everything, do. everything, get involved in everything, and enjoy everything that he's doing.". How do you see yourself? Cuz some people. say Mark Cuban immediately they go. billionaire, others go uh, you know, Dallas Maverick's owner. Others people. go businessman. What what's the first. thing you think of when you think of.

Mark Cuban? >> Just a regular guy just, you know, that's been really fortunate. Just. >> regular. >> Yeah, for real. You know, just a kid. from Pittsburgh that just, you know, has. the same friends, you know, gets beat up. by my three teenagers. Um, enjoys. sports. I I mean, I I loves business and. techn I don't know. I mean, I I guess I. don't think about myself that often, you. know. >> Yeah. Same friends. Are these the same. friends that you were selling um you. know trash bags with when you were a kid. or are these the same friends you opened. the uh.

>> the bar with? >> The bar with. >> all the above. Yeah. So in Pittsburgh. Yeah. I still got Stew, the big man, Bofphy, Seymour, you know, all the all. the the nicknames you have and we you. know we do a Zoom call every two weeks. But still those are my buddies. >> Yeah. Let's let's talk a little bit. about that the young Mark Cuban. you. know, I'm I'm I'm often times most um. most intrigued by the you know, the. origin story of a very successful person. and and yours intrigues me because, you.

know, you hear the story of this kid who. grows up in um you know, in this area. that doesn't seem particularly special, >> right? It seems like just like every. town in America, everyone's going into. work, doing their thing, living their. life. And you had in you this insatiable. attitude and idea of I guess making. money or what would you say your drive. is is it is it making money or finding. opportunity? >> Well, initially it was just making money. because I mean my dad and my mom I mean. my dad did upholstery on cars, my mom.

did odd jobs and you know as long as I. can remember it was like okay if you. want something you're going to have to. go earn it and you're going to have to. earn the money to do it. Um, and that's. just driven me. I mean, from selling. baseball cards when I was 9 and 10 years. old to selling garbage bags door to. door, selling magazines door to door. It. always involves selling. And, you know, I honestly if you can sell something. doortodoor, your confidence goes through. the roof and you just learn how to deal. with things and you learn how to build. your, you know, to interact with people.

and and to be nice. And so, I think. those things really drove me. >> Huh. I I used to sell things when I was. a I used to um I had a pirated CD. business. Um. >> beautiful, >> you know, allegedly. That's what my. lawyers say, I should always say. Allegedly. >> So, I used to sell I used to sell um. music, you know, like when when CD. writing was still a very new concept. And I know you were also like you I mean. you coded and you were in tech and. everything, but I I loved this idea that.

you could create from nothing. you had. this um this new technology that could. connect people in in ways and the. computer was this novel idea. I sold. things I connected with people. I a lot. of your story I can relate to except for. the part where you become a billionaire. I need to I need to understand I need to. understand what steps I missed. What. what mistakes did I make? >> That's the luck part. I mean anybody. who's a billionaire who thinks they. could just do it all over again is lying. their ass off. I mean you know. >> Oh, interesting. >> Yeah, for sure. Because, you know, if.

the internet stock market hadn't just. taken off when we were starting Audiet, you wouldn't even know who I was. That's. just, you know, that's just the way it. works. And, you know, I think could I be. a millionaire multiple times over? Yeah, because I could hustle, I could sell, I. was smart, but the whole billionaire. side of it, the hundreds of millions of. dollars, that's just insane. And that. was luck. >> Man, I like I like this. You know, I. don't think I've I've ever heard anybody. say that. It's like you can make money, you can do well, but being a billionaire. is just luck. right time, right place, everything. So if so, if literally if I.

started you again with all your. knowledge today, you don't think you. could be a billionaire? >> No. No. Unless I got lucky again, right? I mean, could I find opportunities to. get me there? There's only a few of. those types of opportunities. You can. start, you know, a hedge fund and. hopefully do well and then you raise a. lot of money. You could take a company. public. You can start a private company. and have and be bought out. Those really. are the primary ways to get to that. level of wealth. And so, could I try any. or all of those things? Yeah. Like, if. if I had to have a if I if you put me in.

the witness protection program and. nobody knew who I was and I had to just. start purely from scratch, but I still. knew what I know now, I could do well, but I would have to search out some. unique opportunity whether because, you. know, to to be a billionaire, there's. got to be something that's very. leverable, right? Something that just. explodes financially. But there's a. whole lot of people who are really. really smart who do each and all each of. those things or one of them really well. and we don't know who they are. >> What do you what do you think um you.

need to possess to spot opportunity? You. know, and this is outside the realm of. being a billionaire, but what do you. what do you think it was inside you? Did. you get it from your parents? Did you. get it from your community? What was it. that helped Mark realize that there were. gaps in every market? Cuz you you were. selling stuff when you were a kid. How. do how do you see those gaps? I mean, I. was just the most curious person you. could ever imagine. I mean, I just loved. to learn. I was that kid that was just. reading everything I could get my hands. on about business. And if you read.

enough, you you're going to learn. something to your. >> advance. Wait, wait, wait. Go back. Go. back. Go back. You said you were reading. about business as a kid. >> Oh, yeah. Like I was 10, 11, 12, you. know, you name it. I I was reading. >> See, this is the difference. >> Yeah. Business books all the time. You. know, there was this kid Barry Minkow, and he started this um um this carpet. cleaning company, ZZZ, Best Carpet. Cleaning, right? And he took a company. public when he was 21 years old. And. there was a book written about him. But. the thing about it was it was completely.

a fraud. And so he made all these tens. of millions, if not hundred million. dollars as a 21-year-old kid running. this company, just fooling everybody and. anybody he talked to. And I read that. book as a kid and I was thinking, you. know, if this kid can fool all these. adults, put aside the fraud. That just. means there there's lots of opportunity. there to do something and build a. business. And how old you are doesn't. mean it doesn't mean anything, right? If. you can if you can figure it out. And so. I just always just took that and said,

you know, I just keep on learning from. what other people do and learn from. their mistakes and learn what they do, right? Yeah. >> Get a job. learn from you. You know, I. would tell myself, you know, you pay to. go to college, but then after you get a. job, you get paid to learn. And I always. that's the way I looked at the jobs that. I got, the way I look at the jobs I got. fired from. You know, everything was a. learning experience. And sooner or. later, it added up to something of. value. >> One of the biggest things I' I've. noticed in your story that's similar to. a lot of people who are really. successful is you you you never fit in.

though. You never seem to fit in into. like a a strict corporate structure. That's for sure. Like I know one of one. of your jobs you got fired from and you. vowed you were like I'm never going back. into corporate America again. Like what. do you think it is about corporate. America that doesn't work for you and. other people who are who are like. entrepreneurs or or really. business-minded? >> I think structure and limits. I so one. of my first jobs out of college I went. to work at Melon Bank in Pittsburgh and. again I'm reading everything I could and. there was this old magazine called entre.

um entrepreneur magazine and there was. an article about how companies can save. money on their social security taxes. So. what do I do? I buy a copy, I earmark. it, I write a little note on it and I. send it to the CEO of this huge melon. bank. I mean with thousands and. thousands of employees and I get a note. back saying thank you. It's not quite a. fit, but my boss was like, "What the. hell are you doing?" And then I started. this I started the rookie club, right, where I would take I would get all the. other people who had just started with.

me and I would go find a senior level. executive and we'd take them out and get. them drunk or her drunk and just sit. there and chitchat. And my boss, John. Whip, >> hilarious. >> I'll never forget he calls me into his. office. He goes, "What the [ __ ] are you. doing?" And literally, no lie, like I. start to like I tear up and I start to. cry and I tell, "Oh, sorry. my contacts. are bothering me because he's just. yelling at me non-stop and I'm 22 years. old and like I'm just trying to do the. best I can to help my company make more. money and it's just that's that's that's.

the delta, right? That's the difference. because I I didn't look at it as just a. job that I just wanted and I was going. to work 9 to5 and just see where I could. go. To me, it was an opportunity and my. only mission was to help my company make. more money and my my peers and my um my. bosses didn't quite see it that way. >> Yeah. Yeah. You you know it's funny when. when you say it like that. It it it. brings me to an idea that I often speak. about with my friends, which is I don't. think anybody is not successful or I. don't think anybody's not good at doing. something. I just think that most of us.

aren't afforded the opportunity to do. the thing that we are good at for money. And it seems like you were lucky enough. to be in that position, right? >> You're 100% right. And for a lot of. people, they can't even find what that. one thing is. I I really truly believe. that we're all god-given gifted at. something. The hard part is is finding. it and having the confidence to try it. >> Um and. >> and hoping that there's money that comes. from it because I feel like some people. have a talent. >> Yeah. And maybe money is not the thing. that drives you either. You know, I. mean, we all have our own version of.

success. You know, when I was busted and. with five roommates, um you know, I was. still having fun. It wasn't my ultimate. goal, but I mean, I was enjoying my. life. So, I think, you know, the hard. part is just find it. It's what I tell. my kids. You know, you don't have to, you know, when you're 14, 17, 20 years. old, you don't have to know what you're. going to be when you grow up. You just. have to be willing to be curious, excited to learn, love to learn, and. then, you know, someday you'll find. something that you really enjoy doing, hopefully. >> Do you do you think you're raising. normal, welladjusted kids?

>> That's the hope. That's the plan. you know, you get unsolicited comments. from friends or not even friends, but. just people your kids come in contact. with and you know, they say they're good. kids and they are good kids, but you. know, they do the math. >> You know, they read the stories and and. so they know what's coming their way. And so, well, as much as we try to keep. them grounded, we're not, you know, we're not a household that has servants. and somebody doing everything for you. all the time. It's just, you know, we.

try to just live as normally as we can. having a plane. >> Yeah. And that's that's that's the. thing, right? There's still those little. little things that jump out at you. You. know, it's funny. One of the funniest. stories I I remember was um I was I was. speaking to Jerry Seinfeld about um how. you raise normal kids when you're living. an extraordinary life. And and he said. to me, and I mean, you know, Jerry's one. of the funniest people ever. And he says. to me, he goes, "What he does is he. always reminds his kids that he's rich. They're not rich.

>> I've done the same thing many many. times. Just like we were talking about. tattoos and I said tattoo on you know. you win will you know. just stuff like that for sure. >> This is something that's always. fascinating. What's what's what's your. day? What's your routine like? I'm I'm. constantly bombarded with these they. always pop up on social media. It's like. live like a billionaire. Wake up at 400. a.m., be up before the sun, go to sleep.

before the sun goes down, drink coffee. that has butter in it. What's What's. your routine, Mark? >> Um, I get up probably 7, 6:30, 7, just. depending on the day. >> Oh, I like this. I like this already. >> Lay in bed, look at my emails. Okay. >> Because I try to do everything by. emails. And so then I'm in bed for like. an hour chilling, doing my emails, responding to anything that's urgent, and then get up, get something to eat, go work out, um, and then come back and. rinse and repeat because I I literally.

try to do as few meetings and calls as. possible and try to gear everything. towards email. And so I mean, I'm on I'm. on my phone or my PC all day, every day. And that's it. That's it, >> man. I I like this is the first normal. response I've gotten from a really. successful person where it's just like. that sounds like an achievable way to. live your life, you know? >> I mean, the whole value of of being in. this position is just being able to. control your time. That's it. >> That's what I'm talking about. This is. exactly what I'm talking about. But some. people make it seem like the more.

successful you become, the less you are. in control of your life, which then. makes it seem like there's no incentive. to get there. >> Right. Right. I mean, look, when I when. I was in college, I bought this book, How to Retire by the Age of 35. And the. whole premise of the book was live like. a student, right? You don't have to have. anything fancy. You just save up your. money and, you know, just barely live. off of what you need to live off of. And. I I was cool with that, right? Because. like that's the one thing you can't get. back that just flies by. It's the one. asset you can't control and can't It's. just time. And to me, just being able to.

control my own time so I can go to my. kids' basketball games. I can I can just. try to get them to engage with me and. then have them turn their back on me. more times a day, right? You know, it's. just all those things in life that you. just want to hold on to. Th those are. the things that I really value. >> We're going to continue this. conversation right after this short. break. [Music].

Well, you know, Mark, one of the reasons. I wanted to chat with you on the podcast. is because I honestly believe there are. there are few people out there who um. have more interesting opinions. and not just opinions, but opinions that. are based in experience or in some way, shape or form attached to what's. actually happening in the world than. Mark Cuban. You know, whether it's. sports, we can talk about that. Whether. it's politics, we can talk about that. you talk about, you know, business, um, you know, everything, even medicine. And. that's that's something I I'm really.

fascinated about. I really want to get. into it with you. >> But you, you you're somebody who, if if. I try and sum you up, Mark Cuban, in my. opinion, is somebody who has always been. in touch with what's happening in the. world and trying to figure out what it. means for both themselves and the people. living in that world. So, >> thank you. when you look at the world. right now, like what's what's your. what's your feeling on it? Do do you. think things are getting better? Do you. think things are staying the same? Or do. you think things are getting worse?

>> So, it's there's tactical and there's. strategic big picture, right? Tactically, things are worse, right? Because, you know, how we consume. information has changed dramatically. over the past 5 years even, you know, and continues to change. And I think. that's a real problem. And that's led to. a lot of people falling into their own. echo chamber and and disassociating with. each other and and that's a problem. But. on on the bright side, what I see in my. kids, I'm very positive other than. climate change always being a topic. You. know, they're positive about the future.

You know, they're excited and and I feel. good about them and the impact that they. can have. So, on one hand, when I look. at Gen Z and our kids, I'm I'm I'm. really positive and excited. On the. other hand, when I when I look at. adults, >> you know, it reminds me of, you know, I'm I'm a baby boomer and it what a. disappointment my generation has turned. into. We started off really really good. with sex, drugs, and rock and roll, you. know, and we started off, you know, protesting the Vietnam War and yada yada. yada. And now we're the Fox News. generation going down the rabbit holes.

and and that's kind of disappointing. But you know again father time is. undefeated and the kids that are you. know the kids are our future. I know. every every parent every generation says. that but I truly believe it. Let me let. me ask you this like I'd love to know. how you think you've maintained this. ability to both be honest but then also. find a way to grow within the views that. you have because you know um I I saw a. post of yours. It's funny. I think both. of both of us comment on it in different. ways, but like you know this this whole.

um Boeing uh the Boeing plane where the. the you know the door blew off. >> Yeah. And everyone's been speaking about. that and it was really fascinating how a. lot of people online and I think many of. them spurred on by Elon Musk started. talking about how oh you see this is. what happens when you have diversity. Boeing started having diversity as the. plane started falling apart. And you you. wrote this amazing post. You just you. just laid out the facts. You said hey. first of all this is not what diversity. is. diversity is about expanding our. scope to make sure that everyone gets. looked at for the hiring because a lot.

of people weren't looked at for the. hiring. And then you said something that. I really really loved that I I hope more. people think about. You said we need to. and I'm paraphrasing. You basically said. we need to let go of the notion that we. know who will be right for every job and. understand that most of the time we are. guessing based on a set of parameters. that we've chosen. What what do you what. did you mean by that? So, as as an. entrepreneur and somebody who has hired. forever and then actually learned I'm. really bad at hiring and turned it over.

to others, um most jobs, 99% of jobs, it's impossible to tell which candidate. out of however many is the best. You. know, if you're hiring a barista, how do. you know who the best barista is? Do you. give them, you know, you put them behind. a counter and say, "How fast can you. make that mocha?" You know, it just you. you just don't know. If you're hiring. for a sales rep, maybe you can look at. their history, but until when you put. them in this new position, you don't. know and there's a reason why they're. willing to leave their last job, etc., etc., etc. And so 99% of the time when.

you're hiring, it's a guess. And so the. whole idea that you can just use merit. to make a determination in how you hire. for every job is just wrong. And anybody. who's hired, you know, quite a few. positions just just knows that. And so, you know, and I I wanted to get that out. there because it was on Twitter X, right? And you the way it's all set up. there, it's, you know, it's Elon's. little echo chamber that rewards people. that that he rewards, right? And so, I.

knew I was going into the lion's den and. that I was just people were just going. to [ __ ] on me left and right, which is. exactly why I wrote it, right? Because. that made it more interesting, more fun. Um, but it also that was the audience. that needed to hear it. And and if there. was, you know, one light that light bulb. that came on, that's a win. >> Yeah, man. I I I I really I really. appreciate that about you. The the way. you think about the world, it's really. interesting. It's dynamic. Um obviously. obviously I also love it because you're. involved in in sport. You said something. about about sports as well in that post.

where you said as somebody who's worked. in sports for a long time, I've realized. even if you draft the best player, they. may not end up being the best player and. some of the undrafted players go on to. be the best players. >> Correct. >> What What do you think? What do you. think of the current players that have. been drafted? I mean, Victor Wimyama, that seems like was the right choice. >> Oh, yeah. He's great. He's phenomenal. >> Yeah, he's he's phenomenal, right? I. mean, we've got a great young crop of. players who who are are just getting. better. The league is really competitive. um on any given night. And what's. interesting, Trevor, social media has. acted in some respects as a training.

course. Like when I was a kid growing. up, there were no trainers. You didn't, you know, you just went to your. basketball team or football team and. whatever whenever you had practiced and. then you worked on your game. maybe some. afterwards. Now, there's instructional. videos online for every position in. every sport and the skill levels are. going the skill levels are going higher. and higher and higher and so the and. that so the players are better, the. quality of the games are better and and. I think that's overall a positive. >> What do you think.

fans do not understand about the running. of a team? Because as fans, there is no. denying that we all think we can do a. much better job. >> than every team owner and every manager. that exists or every single If you're a. fan, you sit watching the games, whether. you're at the stadium or whether you're. at home and you go, "Why didn't they do. this? Why didn't they get that player? Why didn't they these idiots don't know. what they're doing?" What do What do you. What do you think fans don't know that. that might change their perspective on.

what it means to actually run a team? I. don't know if it'll change your. perspective, but I think they don't. truly understand the impact of luck, >> you know. Um, I'll give you the all-time. luck story. Like Steph Curry, arguably. one of the top 10 players, top five. players of all time. When he first got. started, he there was a backcourt mate. of his, Monte Ellis, who ended up. playing for the Mavs. Actually, also. very good, maybe even a little better. than Steph at the time. And um, Golden. State was getting ready to do a trade. with the Milwaukee Bucks for Andrew.

Bogat. They gave the Milwaukee Bucks the. choice of Steph Curry or Monte Ellis. If. the Bucks had taken Steph Curry, >> history is written completely. differently in the NBA. Luck is just. such a huge component. Luck is such a. huge impact in sports, every sport. And. I don't think fans truly appreciate. that. You know, as much as the as fans. we think we're smart, as owners. sometimes we think we're smart, general. managers think they're smart, >> it's I'll take luck over smart every. single time. I'll take luck over smart.

every single time. Yeah. I mean, and I. mean, the Mavs have been a um a. powerhouse team for a long time. Many. have correctly um attributed that. success to you. What did you change in. an organization that had been running. for so long that enabled it to become. the the successful institution that it. is today? Because it it wasn't always. what it is today and now it's turned. into a powerhouse. What what do you. think you changed? >> Well, it's what I didn't change. I had a. great player named Dirk Nitzky that I. kept for a long long time. Um, a great.

player, Luca Dona. So, sometimes it's. what you don't do, that's the smartest. thing you do. I I remember coming in um. and I I just thought, you know what, I'm. just going to run it the way I run a. business. I'm an entrepreneur. What's. worked for me? Why would I change? And. so, I came in immediately like, okay, we're going to train the players, you. know? So, we're traditionally basketball. teams had three or four coaches. We had. 15. We had one player development coach. for every player. now that every team. does that we were going to make it so. that you know players got the best of. everything because they travel their.

bodies are their job right so just I. just brought common sense I think more. than anything else and it wasn't that it. was any notion that was so ridiculously. creative it was just common sense and. the old guys who ran the teams before I. got to the NBA just didn't think that. way do you think of um politics in. sports I asked this because you know. 2024 is is going to ramp up it's going. to gear up be I would I would argue and. I hope I'm wrong by the way I think it. may be one of the most vicious elections.

America has been involved in in a very. long time and you know athletes and. sports teams are always caught in this. strange place where some people believe. sports should always remain agnostic it. should only be about sport and and allow. it to be an escape for people you know. others will say no this is this is a. platform people have a responsibility. this is where they can speak out but. then the debate becomes what can they. speak out about and how much of it can. they speak out to? What's what's your. opinion on on um athletes and and and.

franchises and and politics? >> Well, there may be debate, but the. reality is when you become a. high-profile professional athlete, you. don't lose your rights as a citizen. And. if it's important to you and what you. believe in and you have a platform, of. course, you're going to use it. Why. wouldn't you? I mean, it's just like you. use your platform. I use my platform. because we've earned that right to do. that. and if it's important to us, we. use it. So, while I may not agree with. what every athlete says across every. sport, I certainly respect their right.

to do so. Um, and in terms of teams, that's that's a little bit more. difficult because no matter what, you're. going to have fans and customers who are. on both sides of the aisle or both sides. of any topic, right? And so, you know, we'll we'll try to be supportive of the. things we truly believe in without going. overboard, you know. So, we'll put out a. statement saying, "Look, this is what we. believe and this is what we agree and. we'll leave it at that, right? We're not. going to go out there and invest in, you. know, buying advertising to promote this.

point of view or anything. We'll use our. social media platforms, make our. statement, and and pretty much leave it. at that. >> Help me break this down. You're not. leaving the team, but you are selling. your majority statement.". >> Right. So, I still have 27% and I'll. still run basketball operations, but the. reality is, you know, sports evolve. And. when I first got in in 2000, technology. and media were really the driving. factors for revenue. And I I was good at. those things. I'm good at those things, right? And so I I had a competitive. advantage and I was able to generate. revenue. Now that's changing. You know,

the media, as you know better than. anybody, right? Media has changed. dramatically. The the you know, the. incumbent companies no longer in the. position of strength that they once. were. Revenue scenarios are changing. dramatically. And that change has meant. that in order to be a revenue a leading. revenue generating team which pays for. those salaries, you have to be in real. estate, you have to be in entertainment. centers and you know just um potentially. casinos. And those are things I don't. have a the slightest clue in. And so I.

don't I don't need to pretend that I can. afford to spend a billion dollars in. something I don't understand. So I. brought in a great partner. Yeah. I. brought in great partners. um Patrick. Dumont who runs the Sands and Marian. Adamson who um was one of the owners and. they know that stuff inside and out. They have those types of properties. around the world and they're amazing and. so they made a great partner. They're. not, you know, hardcore in the they're. basketball fans, but they don't want to. run a team and I don't want to run a. real estate operation. >> You're also stepping away from um Shock.

Tank. >> I got one more year. Yeah, >> one more year. >> and then and then you're out there as. well. Yeah. It it feels like this is a. period of transitions for you. >> No, no, no, no, no, >> no, no, no. It's not a trans. It's just, you know, self-awareness and reality. setting in, right? On one hand, like. like I just said, I don't know real. estate and I'm not going to mess around. with a billion dollars to find out, right? I don't need to [ __ ] around and. find out if we're a billion dollar two. on on shark, you know, on Shark Tank,

you know, while my kids were all in in. high school or or younger, all their. schedules were aligned. And, you know, when we were shooting Shark Tank in. September and June, all right, we can. make it all work. And then in between, the kids would do what we tell them to. do. Now, my oldest is a sophomore in. college and she wants to do her own. thing. The middle one is a really, really, really good rower and she's. getting recruited and she's working her. ass off to be amazing. And so their. schedule drives the train, not mine. And.

so I don't want to. >> Oh, interesting. >> Yeah. So, one more year because I don't. want to leave Shark Tank hanging cuz I. still love the show. I still love what. it stands for. And those reruns will run. for the next 700 years. But um I I just. wanted more time with my kids. That's it. in a nutshell. >> Oh wow. I thought I thought you were. running for president. >> No. No. My kids would disown me. My. family would disown me if I did that. So, no. >> Oh, so you wouldn't consider it at all? >> No. Just because my family No. If if. Yeah. with my kids and everything. This. is just I don't want to look back when.

I'm 95 and say, "Oh, yeah, that extra. season of Shark Tank really made the. difference instead of going to Europe. with my family, you know, or boy, I'm. glad I I went ran for president and got. my ass kicked because um you know, and. missed those three years or four years.". No, it's just, you know, I'm I'm not. young, but I'm not so so old that I. couldn't, you know, put it off four. years or eight years or if I decide to. do anything. Yeah. >> Don't go anywhere cuz we got more what. now after this.

[Music]. Let's talk about some of the other. things um Mark Cuban is involved in. you. are engaged in one of the most. interesting ventures ever and this is. about getting people access to lowcost. drugs uh medicine. One of the craziest things about living. in America is being in a country that is. a first world country that is one of the. richest nations in the world that excels. in almost everything business-wise and.

all of these ideas and the health care. system. >> it's just insane. >> is just horrendous. You know, people people have to keep. jobs that they don't want to keep. because they're terrified of losing. their healthare and they can't support. their family's health and the whole. system is tied up into this weird gunky. mess that that doesn't work the way it. should. >> You've stepped in and you've decided to. I mean really really shake things up. >> Yep. talk to me about like the the. inception and the idea behind this. because there are very few people who.

could do this and I want to know why you. thought you could do this and how you. think you're going to do it without. being black bowled by the big boys. >> right so costplusds.com is the name of. the company and I started becoming a a. healthc care geek probably six seven. years ago during the Trump. administration when they said they were. going to try to get rid of um the ACA um. the Affordable Care Act and they didn't. have anything to replace it so I'm like. okay you know if if the [ __ ] hits the. fan, I want to at least, you know, understand what's going on. And.

>> well, to be fair to Trump, he said he he. said he was going to replace it with. something much better. Something much. better. There were no specifics, but he. did say he did say he was going to. replace it with something much better. >> And why would we not believe him, right? But just because I'm curious and I. wanted to know more. Um, so I started. getting into it and just, you know, happen stance. Um, I got a email, cold. email from a Dr. Alex Oshmayansky who. was starting a compounding pharmacy in. Denver and what he wanted to do was take. generics that were in short supply and.

make them and sell them cheaper. The. challenge was with that is that it was. very difficult to scale. So, we started. talking. I'm like, "Okay, let's start. this company where we we sell these. generics that you wanted to make, but we. just buy them and sell them, but we're. very transparent about our pricing." And. let's call it cost plusddrugs.com. because I was able we were able to get. that URL. So, we started it um and the. whole premise is very, very simple. We. buy drugs. We sell drugs from cost. plusddrugs.com. But we show you our.

cost. We show you our 15% markup. We. show you our uh shipping and handling. fees. And that's it. But by doing that, a couple things happened. We publish our. price list. So now everybody who buys. any type of medication at all, even if. you have good insurance, you may go to. costlrs.com. and see that our the medication you take. by buying from us is cheaper than your. co-pay from your great insurance pro. program at at um at work. So, but by.

putting that transparent price list out. there and by limiting our markup to 15%, we're able to sell a lot of medications. just thousands in some cases tens of. thousands of dollars cheaper than what. they were being sold for before. Because. what happens in our health care system, talking about, you know, being screwed. up, you go to your doctor, he says, "Okay, Trevor, I'm going to prescribe. you this." And the next words out of his. mouth aren't, "Can you afford it?" or. "Let's talk about cost." It's what. pharmacy do you use?

>> And then you go to the pharmacy and you. may or may not even know what your. co-pay is. You don't know what the cost. is. The company that you work for who's. paying for the health insurance if they. are paying doesn't know what they're. paying. There's just no transparency. whatsoever. So by introducing. transparency now everybody's getting to. see that they're paying too much for. their medications. And that's had a. profound change in the entire industry. And now these incumbents, they're. they're trying to copy us. Now, they're. lying when they try to do it. They say, "Okay, we're starting our own cost plus.

program, but they get to pick the p the. the cost that they mark up and they. don't tell you the markup, etc., etc.". So, we've had So, now cost. plusdrugs.com, you know, we've had. millions of customers. We've I don't. even know how much money we've saved. You know, we've had scenarios where, you. know, um and we hear this every week. It. seems like somebody was paying, you. know, $26,000 a year and we cut their. cost down to $200 a year, right? They. they went to CVS and the price for their. their chemo price for their chemotherapy.

medication was going to be $2,000 and. our price was $21. You know, it's it's. just completely insane is right. And. it's just the first step for us right. now. We went like when we last talked. about this um I think we had a couple. probably hundreds of drugs. Now we're up. to 2400 drugs. Um, by this time next. year, we'll have a full complement of. brand drugs. Help, help me understand. this then. >> Am I correct or am I naive in assuming. that the price of medicines in America.

are only the prices of medicines in. America because these drug companies are. greedy and can afford to be greedy. because nobody stops them. >> No, that's actually not the case. And. so, >> okay, what is it then? >> It's crazy. So, two things. First, there's generic drugs and there's. branded drugs, right? So, Eloquist brand. branded, right? etc. So, >> Viagra branded, etc., >> right? Right. And but there's a generic. for Viagra. I'm not saying I know. anybody who uses it, but there is. Um, and so,

so in for generic drugs, those 2400 plus. drugs that we sell at cost plus drugs, we're cheaper than any other country in. the world except maybe India and China. So if there's people from Canada who are. trying to get us to sell them generics. in Canada and in other countries. >> wait you flipped it around because. normally people want to buy from Canada. because it's cheaper now you flip that. around. Correct. For generic drugs. Now. on branded drugs, branded drugs. typically are sold through insurance and.

or Medicare. And so and most people have. Medicare advantage if they have. Medicare. And that works through an. insurance company. And it's the. insurance company, the big insurance. companies and what they what's called a. pharmacy benefit manager that negotiates. those prices with big pharma who in turn. is forced by those companies to pay a. big rebate. And because they're paying. rebates to the PBMs, that jacks up the. price of the retail price of that brand. drug. So when you talk to the.

manufacturers of those drugs, there's. exceptions. You know, there's some drugs. that like the weight loss drugs, right? They can't even make enough. They're. keeping those prices high no matter. what. And the rebates not impacting them. at all. But for most brand drugs, it's. not the manufacturer that's selling it. at the highest price. It's the insurance. company and the pharmacy benefit manager. who are jacking it up so they can pay a. rebate. So literally when we come in and. add transparency, the brand. manufacturers, the big pharma guys, they.

love us because we bring. >> So they don't mind you because you're. actually stepping in as. >> right. So look at it this way. If a drug. is retail priced at $1,000, and they pay. a 64% rebate, which is about the right. number, to that that pharmacy benefit. manager, they're only getting $360 out. of that $1,000 drug, right? So, if they. >> So, the drug company doesn't mind making. that $300 cuz they they're making the. 300 no matter what. >> They're making the 300, but they'd. rather they'd rather sell that drug.

through us and us just mark it up 15%. rather than it being sold for a,000. So. that's part of our battle right now. because those pharmacy benefit managers. don't want the manu the brand man. manufacturers to sell through us and. that's leading to even other problems. because those brand those um the. insurance companies and the um pharmacy. benefit managers they're destroying. maybe destroying is too strong a word. but really negatively impacting the. independent pharmacy business that you.

know that local pharmacy that works with. your grandma and. They actually when you buy that brand um. drug from your local pharmacy, the. pharmacy is now losing money on those. brands and they're losing more and more. money because of the games the pharmacy. benefit managers play. And it's just. it's horrific. And so we're trying to. work directly with the pharma. manufacturers to help you. We put. together a network of. independentarmacies. So instead of.

losing $10 every time they sell a brand. drug, they're going to start making. money. And this is going to sound crazy, but if you work for a local independent. pharmacist and you're getting a brand. drug, ask them if they're losing money. on it and if there's a way to do a cash. price or even ask them if you can tip. them cuz literally I've started tipping. my local independent pharmacy because. they are getting crushed when they sell. you. It's depressing. >> Oh, it's horrible. It's horrible. There's thou there's thousands of indep. thousands of independent pharmacists are.

just toast because of these rules and. these chargebacks and all these games. the pharmacy benefit managers are. playing. And you know what? To make. matters worse, when you look at a. pharmacy benefit manager, if I put on my. Shark Tank hat and they walked in on. Shark Tank and I said, "Okay, what is. the one thing that you do that every one. of your customers needs and can't live. without?". >> There's not one damn thing. There's not. one thing that they do. It's just that. they're so big. >> They're just scale. >> Right. They're just in the right. position. >> Exactly. Right. They just have scale and.

it's the way it's always been done. And. we are going to [ __ ] them up. I promise. you with everything I have. >> I hope so, man. I really really hope so. I feel like if if there's one person who. can do it, it's you. You've been doing. that your whole life. You found you. found the gaps. You found the. opportunities. you found the moments. where where there's, you know, and and I. think what I appreciate about this. situation is there's a lesson that I I. think many people don't seem to. understand is that you can make money. and you can profit whilst not completely.

just like ripping people off and taking. everything away from them. you know, and. you're seeing that you're seeing that. right now in America where like, you. know, like obviously inflation is up and. you know, postco everything shot up and. but then you see these companies where. they used that opportunity to raise. their prices more than they would have. normally. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which is which is crazy. It's like. you can still make a profit without. completely ripping people off. The most. important product for any company. starting right now or any company period.

is trust because nobody trusts anybody. at all. And that's why in healthcare by. being transparent, >> we build trust because that really right. where our prices are important, the fact. that we're transparent, trust is our. number one prior. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> companies are starting to realize that. and more and more particularly young. entrepreneurs recognize that I can do. well by doing good or do good by doing. well, right? And I think that's really. changing things now. It's obviously like.

you said, there's companies like, you. know, you you look at your water b water. bottle, it used to be 24 ounces, now. it's 23 ounces. Your cereal used to be. 12 ounces, now it's 11 ounces. But we. don't raise our prices, right? Slick. >> Yeah, it's really slick, right? But. there's a real opportunity for. entrepreneurs there, you know, if you. can just live up to the trust that. people expect. >> You've stepped into multiple different. different fields and you've disrupted. them. You know, um you you came into. sports with a new attitude. You've. stepped into medicine with a new.

attitude. A lot of people may not know. this, but really one of the biggest. things you did was in tech. You know, you you would taught you self-taught. when it came to coding. You knew. computers were going to be huge. you. were working on networks as as as a. youngster. You were really ahead of the. game when it came to this. >> I'd love to know what you think of of. this this next revolution that we're. that we're that we're witnessing right. now. You know, AI. >> is is ubiquitous. AI is. >> in everything everywhere you go now from.

your car rental agency to your language. learning app to, you know, me, you name. it, >> AI is involved. And you know obviously. there's there's going to be benefits and. then there are also things sure you know. that that we should that we should be. wary about. But as somebody who has not. just made a lot of money in tech but. also spent a lot of time uh in tech like. what are your what are your views on AI? What's what's your. >> So from a business perspective there's. only two types of companies. The.

companies that are great at AI and. everybody else. That's it. You have to. know a AI and AI breaks into both for. our regular lives and business lives. AI. breaks into two types. One, there's the. large language models, the chat GPT, and. that's really the the biggest important. part. And then there's just using AI for. optimization, right? You know, how do I. ship my widgets faster and better and. cheaper than before? But for the large. language models, they're going it's. going to change everything. Some little. kid born today, >> their life is going to be insane. And.

I'll give you an example. Um, right now. like I have emails, like I said, I do. everything via email, right? If I were. to take all those emails that I have. going back 30 years and put them into a. large language model and I created a. hologram of myself, I actually have a. company who does holograms um. hypervision and combine those two. together. You could have this. conversation with my hologram and if the. quality hologram was good enough, you. wouldn't know it wasn't me because a. large language model is able to ingest.

as much information from a person by a. person about a person as you can feed. it. Now imagine that for your little. baby and all those videos we take on our. phone, all the first goooo guys, all the. first steps, all their papers, all their. drawings, and you put that into, you. know, Trevor's baby's large language. model. >> Mh. >> By the time that you're doing that for. 10, 12 years, that best friend is that. little kid's best friend is themsself. out of a large language model. It is.

going to be insane. Insane. That is that. is scary. >> Every kid, just like kids now have. social media accounts, >> they will have their own large language. models. There'll be h tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of large. language models. Every kid will have. their own. It may run their social media. for them. >> It's funny. It's funny you say that. One. of the one of the biggest um. uh I would say one of the biggest GPTs. that's been hyped. So, you know, chat. GPT has these, you know, the offshoots.

where people can create their own and. sell them off. Right. >> And even though they've basically banned. it, one that's really popular is a chat. GPT girlfriend or boyfriend. >> Oh yeah. >> And what Yeah. And what people are doing. now is they're actually dating their. chat GPT. Yes. >> And people are saying that they people. are saying they're having more. fulfilling relationship. Of course they. are. Lonely. They feel more connected. >> Of course. I mean, think about, you. know, when you were a teenager, no. matter what generation, right? You're.

sitting in front of a TV, you're. listening to music and you're connecting. to your music, right? And your music. spiritually fulfilled you or you're. teaching yourself an instrument or. you're, you know, you you buy yourself a. little guitar. Like I remember sitting. for hours trying to, you know, C, D, G, right, and just teach myself, you know, and we found, we try to connect in. whatever way, emotionally, spiritually, whatever it may be that we can. And this. is a way where they don't fight back, right? and they work on your schedule. and you don't have to be an expert and.

there's no expectations and now you know. on the extremes there's always going to. be negative consequences right somebody. takes it too far one way or the other. but in the middle I think it's a. positive right because there's somebody. there to talk to you there's somebody. there and with all these tens of. millions of large language models you'll. be able to say you know there's this. psychologist or psych you know psychi. whatever it may social worker who has. some really interesting things. I'm.

going to get that module for my. 15year-old because I think having that. something that large language model to. talk to that I know has been influenced. by somebody I trust is going to be a. positive man. It's uh it it's. >> it is both equally it's terrifying and. exciting in equal measure because. >> we don't know what to expect. It's one. of the few times in human history where. we're living we're living on the. precipice. Um. >> you don't live in the world you were. born into, you know.

>> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. That's that's that's a great way. to put it. Um so Mark, I'm going to ask. you a question that I that I ask all my. guests on the podcast and that is what. now? I feel like it's the perfect time. to ask it to you because you're opening. up space and place in your life. and. you've answered some of it, but you. know, you're you're you're you're. stepping away from some of the positions. you hold uh on the basketball team, the. Dallas Mavericks. You are, you know, going to be stepping away from Shark. Tank in a year. So, so, so what now? What does what does Mark Cuban look at.

as the next era of of his life? >> I mean, my kids and healthcare, right? I. mean, I just, you know, I'm not someone. who thinks about legacy a lot. I'm not. certainly not the type of person to put. my name on a building, but at the same. time, I think if I can have enough of an. impact on health care where, you know, people don't have to stress about it the. way they are, where people, you know, we. get to a point where. >> healthcare is a right. You know, it's. not an affordability issue. I I think we.

can get there. When I when I look at. what I know now about healthcare, there's a lot that can be stripped away. and there's a path to get there that's. not as difficult. I think as people. think and so if I can just keep on. grinding it out every single day and. just you know taking another brick out. of that wall. Um I think I think there's. a lot of really cool changes that can. happen that can make this country a. better place. >> It's a fantastic idea to have for your. future. You know spending more time with. family and trying to help other people.

um spend more time with their families. ironically because of their health. >> Well Mark Cuban thank you for the time. Thank you for your insights and uh yeah, good luck for the season and everything. else that you do, my friend. >> I appreciate it. Thanks, Trevor. It's. always fun. [Music]. >> What now with Trevor Noah is produced by. Spotify Studios in partnership with. Day0ero Productions, Fullwell 73, and. Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The.

show is executive produced by Trevor. Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Barry Finkele. Produced by Emanuel. Hapsis, Marina Heny, Jess Hackle, Natalie Per, and Chelsea Williamson. Music mixing and mastering by Hannis. Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another. episode of What Now?