Malala Yousafzai: The Real Malala - Jeans, Crushes, & Healing

Balala defied a ban prohibiting girls. from attending school, posting an. anonymous blog about the restrictive. life for women and children in Pakistan. It made her a target. Taliban militants. shot her in the head on her school bus. >> She was flown to the UK for medical. treatment and has lived there ever. since. >> She has since become the youngest ever. Nobel Peace Prize winner and a fierce. advocate for the rights of girls and. women around the world. I had a historic. moment here when I spoke at the UN. One. child, one teacher, one book, and one.

pen can change the world. >> Malala Yusfsai taking to Instagram to. celebrate completing her degree in. philosophy, politics, and economics at. Oxford. >> Malala Yusfsai is working on a new. memoir. It will be her most personal. book yet. This is What now with Trevor Noah.

>> Where are you flying from? How are you? >> London. I'm good. >> Like now? >> Yeah. >> Oh, but you get time back. I like that. I don't know if you do. >> No, I I like when I have extra hours. >> Yeah. I feel like I'm time traveling. I. am I am not uh a more like I I like just. more more hours to live. I like the days. to be longer. >> I mean that's one way to think of it.

>> I always just I just feel like I've. cheated in a like a. >> No, it feels really good. >> Yeah. I feel like I've cheated the. system. >> Yes. I'm like it was such a productive. day. How did I manage so many things? It's like you had like seven extra. hours. >> Yeah. It's exactly that feeling. Okay. So London and then how long are you here. for? >> A week. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And then from here back to London. >> Yes. But then I go to Egypt to visit. some of the projects we are supporting. for the Gaza refugees. >> Uh Palestinian refugees. And then we go.

to Nigeria for our board meeting. >> And then I come back to London, do more. press. Then I go to LA, do more press. New York, more press. And then the book. is finally out. And then I start the. tour. >> Then you start the book tour. >> Yeah. >> I think you'll you'll enjoy the book. tour. You I mean you you've done them. before. >> Not like a big tour. No, >> no, >> this is my first proper book tour. >> Oh. Did you Did you enjoy the last one. that you did? >> The last one I was still in school. >> So you couldn't really like. >> So I did two events.

>> Oh, no. That's No, that's not a tour. then. No, that's not that's definitely. not a tour. >> You know what I like about the book tour. the most is. look, I don't know. I don't know how. you'll feel about but I I feel like. that's where you you reap the reward. actually for the first time of the book. >> Yeah, I'm excited. I mean, I haven't. experienced it yet. >> Like most of cuz I my experience was you. write the book, you write the book, you. write the book and then for me at least. it was what am I doing? This is taking. forever. This is so hard. Then the. editor comes back with notes and then.

you got to do more writing and then. you're counting then you're not then. you're like what do you leave out? What. do you put in? It's just this process. process. Finally, it's done and then. it's like what cover do you want? What. you know what I mean? process, process, process, process. And then it's only. when you're on tour for the first time. with the book that you see people like. interact with it. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then there's this time before. the release when you're doing press. >> about the book. >> about the book. So you have, you know, you're like the book is not out yet, but. let me tell you everything about the. book. And I find it really awkward. I'm.

like, it's a secret, but you all need to. know about it. >> But I was so surprised to find you. downstairs. Uh, what do you mean? Because. the first time when we met for the Daily. Show. >> Yeah. >> You were very late. >> Was I? >> Yes. I was waiting in the studio. >> Sounds like me. >> I I waited for a very long time. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. No. So I wonder what year. you came in. So when. >> 2019 beginning maybe. >> Can I tell you that was like those were. like some of the hardest years of my. life. And one of the things that always.

would get me at the Daily Show was. you're trying to make a show. >> Yeah. >> And you're trying to do it about the. news. And then there were the years when. I mean now we're back in the years but. it was the years when Donald Trump is. now in power. Right. So the way the. Daily Show used to work with John. Stewart was they would watch the news. the night before. >> Yes. >> And then the day of they would make the. show and then you would put it out. >> Yes. >> And then when I became the host, when. Trump came into power, the news of the. night before meant nothing. Absolutely. nothing. And so sometimes it would be.

2:00 p.m. after rehearsal, we're. literally done. And then people would. come in and go, "Everything you wrote is. trash. Everything is wrong. They've. changed this. This is not hap. There's a. new thing uh Trump spoke on the White. House lawn. There's a new law they put.". And then we'd have to rewrite the show. completely. And so oftent times it meant. whoever was sitting in the back waiting. for us. Were you watching it on like the. screen like I'm trying to think of where. you were. >> in the waiting room? >> Oh yeah. In the in the in the But we had. snacks. >> You had snacks.

>> I had like delicious snacks. >> Delicious. >> I tried to make sure there were as many. delicious snacks as possible. Yes, it. was a very nice cozy space. I enjoyed my. time. >> Yeah. Well, this time I was on the. street. >> Yeah. But I was surprised to find you. here. I was like, wait a second. He's. not just waiting for me in the studio. He's waiting for me on the street to. receive. >> You are Malala where Thank you so much. >> This is where you should be in the. street waiting to receive the people. There's also not as much money doing a. podcast versus the Daily Show. Yeah. And. with the Daily Show, there's someone to. do that. I just have to do it myself. here. >> Understandable.

>> No, no. I I No, I like it. You know what. it is? It's like it's you know what it's. actually a perfect segue into like what. you said in the book. We very seldom get to think about the. identities that we've adopted for you. know or or the the identities we've. inherited because of things that have. happened to us. And so mine in a very. different way to yours people have an. idea of me as a person. So they go you. are like this. Some people think I'm u. very funny. Some people think I'm like. or only funny even. Some people think.

I'm very serious. Some people think I'm. only political. Uh some people think I'm. stupid. Uh some people think I'm. whatever. But I'm all those things. Do. do you know what I mean? And so in many. ways, like the beginning of your book. touched me and I think it will touch so. many people because it starts in a place. that personalizes your story in a way. that honestly I didn't expect. And it's. you lying in a hospital bed, people. operating on you because of a gunshot.

wound. And in that moment, you've. already inherited a story and there's a. journey that's been that's been put. forth for you. And so I I wonder that. like when I was reading that, I was. going, "Oh, how am I like when I meet. Malala? Am I do I defer too much? Should. I treat her more normally?" Then I'm. like, "But I'm not going to roast. Malala." Is that But do you roast. people? How do you do you find that. people are like are weird around you for. lack of a better term? >> When people meet me, what shocks them. most is that I'm funny. You know, for me.

being funny, humor has been a process of. healing and I do not want to talk about. the difficult parts. And it's not that I. feel uncomfortable talking about them. I. easily can explain it to people what. happened. And for me it's just a series. of events that I'm telling. >> Yeah. >> I think it's a blessing for me that I do. not remember the incident. >> But I do remember when I woke up and how.

I felt. I was grateful that I was alive. But I was in a hospital in Birmingham in. the UK, not in my country anymore. And. my parents were not there with me for 10. days. They joined after that. >> Right? >> So I had to figure out what was. happening. Who are these strangers. speaking in English? I had never. traveled outside Pakistan. And I had to. just process the fact that yes, something horrible had happened, but I. did not know what exactly. And um yeah, so you know, this is a story I I I tell. people I can tell people about how long.

it took me to recover. I had to learn to. like walk and talk again. >> Yeah. >> And and you know, and this was truly me. like for me, I thought this is this is. another life. I am reborn. And I felt it. like I couldn't even speak in the. beginning. I couldn't even walk in the. beginning. >> Wow. >> I felt like I was learning to crawl and. to to get up. >> So at that time my focus quickly shifted. to the attention that I was now.

receiving globally. Yeah. >> Because of what had happened and I was. getting all of these requests like we. want to write a book about your life. We. want to make a documentary. Yeah. >> You have to give your first speech at. the UN. And that's the turn my life took. that in all of that I just forgot who I. was actually meant to be before any of. this had happened. Who was the Malala. the funny one who had a lot of friends. who was back in Pakistan. She was. studious but she was cheeky. All of that. was gone. And I somehow just thought.

that yes I have lost a lot of things. including joy including the laughter and. I never thought I could like make a best. friend or you know find love and and. just be like a normal person. I thought. life was now all about activism. So much that I thought it it meant. sacrificing everything else. >> You know, there's something I think of. when when you say that it reminds me of. um South African activists, >> you know, the people who fought for. apartheite to end.

>> and I often think about many of the. stories that people would tell about the. inner like the inner circles. >> Yes. >> You know, the Nelson Mandelas, the. Walter Cisulus, the you like whoever. they were. And one of the big things. that struck me was I thought to myself, activism in my opinion is trying to. fight for something so that we can be. >> Yeah. >> You know, and if you if you're stuck in. the activism, there's no being. >> No. >> You know, now it's like this is this is. all I'm a fighter. I'm fighting. I'm.

fighting. And we forget the being. And. when when when you said that, I was. like, "Oh, yeah." Like Malala being. mischievous is something that no one. ever thinks of. Mala I remember the. first time you roasted me actually. I. didn't know what was happening. >> I don't remember either. >> No, no, no. I remember the first time. you roasted me. I I I remember my my. brain short circuit. I I I made what I. call the Mandela mistake. So, >> um Nelson Mandela had been president of. South Africa. Obviously, 1994 he becomes. president, right? >> And I think this was after his.

presidency, he got honored with a with. um a coin that had his face on it. And. this was like the first time, imagine, first black president, first. democratically elected president, but. now they're also putting his face on. money. >> Yes. >> And there was a press conference that. was being held and we got invited to. this event and I distinctly remember a. journalist, I think they were from the. UK, and they asked him a very serious. question, very like and I mean he's. like, you know, he's Nelson Mandela, you.

know, very funny guy though privately. people who knew him and even publicly. sometimes. But the the journalist said, "Mr. Mandela, how does it feel to live in a. country where you were once considered a. terrorist. >> and a person who was persona and now. your face is on that same country's. currency? How does it feel?" And he. paused and he goes, he's like, "That's. how you know you've made it when you. have your own money." And he's like, "No.

more socializing with poor people. And I laughed. >> Yeah. >> And people turned to look cuz I got the. joke. Maybe it's a South Africa. Like. the rhythm I got. >> And people looked at me like sh. And everyone in the room was just like m. Yes. So So be I was like that's not an. made a joke. He's saying that he's made. it now so he doesn't have to hang out. with the poor which is crazy cuz Nelson. Mandela would never say that. >> But I realized I did that with you. You.

you roasted me. You said a few things. and I remember going, "Oh, I think this. is a very powerful life lesson that. Malala just shared with me." When it was. just like, "No, no, she's just roasting. you." Like, do you do you think people. miss you because of that? >> Yeah, I think that you know that's how. uh my image has been in in the public. So when I have done interviews, yes, people are quite surprised and I make a. very basic joke and people laugh out. loud. It's like a very basic joke like.

you know with your friend John Stewart I. just made a joke about like you know. Birmingham being as beautiful as New. Jersey and he just could not stop. laughing cuz I was like yeah you know. you know New Jersey anyway. >> because Yeah. But I mean it's because we. don't expect it to come from you. >> I know. >> you're like a saint. >> I know. But I I like being funny. I just. uh I like that for you. It's. >> the most beautiful thing you know that. we can laugh together. I really I like. that for you as well because it's it's. human and the book is very human. Like.

the story you're telling is dare I say. is like Malala being messy. >> Yeah, a bit. >> My words, not yours. My words, not. yours. But like, you know, you know, I. was looking through some of the the the. parts that really stuck with me and. and I was like, it's it's amazing how. this book feels to me like you you're on. this journey of reclaiming something. that we as society never thought that we. took from you, which was the fullness of. who you are as a person, not being one,

not being the other. But it's like. people made you hyper vvisible, but then. also invisible at the same time. I think. that's a very good description of it. But I don't think it's fully society. I. think you internalize it so much that. >> you think that's who you are supposed to. be. I feel that's what happened to me. A. lot of friends used to like joke that I. was um more like Mother Teresa or a. Dalai Lama that I was supposed to live a.

life like that. So when I got this. opportunity to be in college and it's. like a normal thing right just going to. university going to college but for me. it was a big deal. >> because firstly I was now not under the. surveillance of my parents. >> you know it's it's a South Asian family. and I could not even like go to a. friend's gathering there because they. were just too worried about my safety. and just too scared about something.

happening and I could not figure out. what that something was going to be. But. I was supposed to be at home and then. at, you know, spend the rest of my day. at school and then be at these events. doing conferences and speeches and. interviews. That was how my whole life. was being an activist and then this. quiet student in a in a classroom, >> right? >> That when I was in university, I said, "Okay, the parents are not watching. um. nobody's judging you because nobody. technically really knows you and uh make.

as many friends as possible. And I was. so glad that I changed myself a bit at. school. I was a very quiet person. >> Yeah, >> I had become a quiet person in the UK. because I was like, you know, >> I don't know how to fit in. It's I'm I'm. a late comer. I did not make friends on. time and I just only had one best. friend. So in college I had one goal to. make as many friends as possible. I was. saying hello to everybody. It sometimes. felt awkward but I said don't worry.

about it. Um and and it changed. everything for me because I made so many. friends who are now friends with me for. life. They have changed my life. completely. I found safety and comfort. among them. It it also makes me feel. like you you claimed something that you. had lost that people didn't necessarily. realize. And I I noticed that, you know, when you're telling your story, I found it beautiful that you went.

backwards in time to reclaim beauty that. I think most people wouldn't have. assumed existed in your life. >> Yeah. >> You know, like when I think of the story. of Malala as it was told in the world, it seemed very much like she's been. rescued. She's been rescued from. everything. Thank goodness Malala. Now. you get to live in the west. What a. beautiful life. Now you have friends. Now you have a future. Now you have. hope. You have dreams. You have beauty. And yet in in the book you go backwards. And you painted pictures that made me go. like I need to go to Pakistan. I need to.

go see these valleys. I need to eat. these fruits. I need to travel through. these places. like what do you think or why do you. think that was so important for you to. do to to like paint those images as. vividly as you did as the beginning as. opposed to the beginning that we know. >> so when I joined university I still had. not been back to Pakistan those memories. from my home stayed with me and that's. how I felt a connection to home because. I felt like there was there was this big. disconnection I could not really connect.

with that old life and it was purely. these memories like thinking about my. friend sometimes talking to my old. school best friend Muniba and sometimes. just opening Google maps and zooming in. on on the street and looking at the. rivers and the mountains and thinking. about the time I had spent there as a. child with friends giggling laughing and. sometimes I would question myself if. that was all real. >> Wow. >> And why have I ended up in a in a place. and why can't I go back? So um it was um.

around springtime in my first year of. university when we were on our Easter. break. >> that I told my dad we have to go back to. Pakistan. I have to go see my friends, see my hometown, see my relatives. because I am not feeling okay. I feel. incomplete. I think it's it's affecting. me. Um I'm. >> and it's you know when you feel like. this is the last chance that you could. see your home or your loved ones. >> Yeah, I can imagine. And it just felt.

that um I may not get another chance. It. always kept getting delayed. And I said. there will always be an excuse. There's. always like something happening in the. country. The country is beautiful, but. there's always something happening. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> With politics. So I said, you know, it. will somehow like never be the right. time, but we we have to go regardless. And we went there and that was such a. fulfilling journey. >> It's beautiful. We met our friends and. family and it was it was strange. It was.

it was like comforting. It was all of. these feelings were there and. >> and I and I'm so glad that we did it. uh. I met my school best friend and like you. know and I could just see how the. friends connected with me uh the most. because for them it was all of those. childhood memories that were coming back. like you know how cheeky we were and. >> they they keep a piece of you that's. what I always think like you know I know. you were a Twilight fan. >> but like for me it was it was like Harry. Potter was really formative.

>> and I I I always call my friends my. horcruxes because I feel like your. friends keep a piece of you no matter. where they are. >> and so when you go home I mean I. experienced in a very different way. But. when I went back to South Africa, you. know, like after hosting the Daily Show, >> when I met with people who had always. known me, I realized that they contained. parts of me that I hadn't been able to. fully explore or enjoy or revel in. because people in America, not good or. bad, they just didn't know that of me. >> Yeah. >> You know, so now I had people who could. be like, "Oh, naughty trip, you're back. You you you know that that thing.".

>> No. Suddenly you remember so much about. yourself that you had forgotten. >> I was like, "No way. That was me." Yes. I do remember. >> you know we were running in the field. because we stole some plums from the. other relatives you know farm or. >> uh and I was like wow like there was. once a part of me who was. >> adventurous. >> and and there are so many things that. they remember for them it's still. >> something that happened recently it's so.

vivid in their mind but you have. forgotten things you remember and are. not that important to them it's like. really fascinating. >> did You did you how did it feel the. first time you had a mango again? >> Like a like a mango from Pakistan? I. asked this. >> Yes. >> Some people won't know. They'll be like. this is the most random question ever. I. have a fight with people all over the. world and I go, >> "If you come from a place with mangoes, >> there's a mango from your country that I. argue is the best mango in the world.". Like in South Africa, we have some of. them. And then in Egypt, I've had.

amazing mangoes. And I'm trying to think. of where else. >> Brazil also. >> Brazil also has some nice mangoes. Mango's not bad in Brazil. But I was. like, >> Pakistani mangoes. Are they that good? >> Pakistani mangoes are so good. They're. not there for that long. The season is. very very short. It's just a bit of that. July, August time. >> And. >> so what are they like the little yellow. ones or the. >> big big but. >> Okay. I like that. >> Like yellow ones and they're like so. sweet. I can't even explain. You have to. try them. >> I'll try I'll try. Did you go back and. like what was the first thing you had.

that was just I mean. >> there was not the mango season because. you can't even preserve those mangoes. It's not the same. But I had like apples. and plums and peaches and apricots and. grapes and. >> like. >> and tea. We love chai. We love Pakistani. tea which is. >> which has so much milk in it and sugar. and it's boiled for. >> forever. The one where they pour like. they pour again and again and again. boiling and then just pouring it. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, >> I think there's actually a place I went. to in London where they do that and it. was the first time I had it. It was it. was amazing. >> and then you dip your biscuit in it and. then and then you take a sip of tea and. that's the best feeling ever. And people. do that on the hottest day of like the. summer. >> Yeah. >> Like it's it's afternoon, it's boiling. hot and people like. >> let's have a cup of tea. >> You just. >> Yeah. >> I loved I I genuinely I I loved how you. I don't know. It felt like, and I think.

a lot of people will feel this when they. read the book, is like. you you possess this magical ability to. not just weave the tapestry of what. you're experiencing, but I feel like you. invite the reader to explore their own. Cuz as you were longing for home, I. found myself longing for home. And then. as you were reenjoying it, I found. myself appreciating the things that I I. reenjoyed. And it's it's like. it's beautiful and it was also real.

You know, for instance, there's a. there's a there's a story that you. share, an anecdote that you share with. with your younger brother. And coming. from South Africa, I think your story. made me realize. how strange our stories can be. >> Yeah. >> But also how normal they are for. everybody who's in them. You know, you. tell the story of your younger brother. digging a grave. >> Yes. But not in like a morbid way, but like. how old? He's like five at the time, I. think. >> Yeah, he was very little. I mean, um,

and he was just, you know, digging a. grave and like kids just forgot what it. was like to be a child. Yeah. >> And what does it mean for kids to play. because they were hearing. >> firing and helicopters and the news of. >> people getting killed. Uh so for them it. was just normal to be like digging the. ground and you ask them what they're. doing and he replied digging a grave and. that's just a reality you accept. Even.

the the the police and thief game I. don't know it's like different in every. culture but we call it police robbers. banks and what do you call it in. Pakistan? >> Chore police. >> Ch police. Okay. What is chol? What does. that mean? >> Ch is like the thief. >> Okay. The thief. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. >> And people switch it to like the Taliban. and army. >> Oh damn. >> So one kid would be the Taliban. the. other kid would be then the army and. they would be like chasing each other. So it does affect kids a lot and you. know we were very young. I was 11 years. old when the Taliban announced ban on. girls education.

>> and I remember like those uh days when I. felt like I could not have a future. That's how they had taken away all the. rights from women and girls. And we even. would walk to school um sometimes like. in our home clothes, not in our school. uniforms. We would hide our bags under. our hefty long scarf so that they could. not see it. And we still continued to go. to the school. But we tried to hide it. in every possible way we could so the. Taliban uh could not see us. But that's.

how determined we were. And you know, at. 11, you just want to be a kid playing. Yeah. >> In school. and here we were like sacrificing and. and and fighting like risking our lives. for our education. Our lives just. changed completely. >> In those moments it doesn't seem like. you thought you were fighting for. something much larger than yourself. You. you were doing the thing that I. sometimes think we forget in society. which was you were the people that you.

now fight for. >> Exactly. Yeah. And what I I I'm trying. to figure out a more articulate way to. say it, but I think in crafting your. story and sharing it, you remind you. remind us that the people that we're. often advocating for, they have agency. >> Yeah. >> You know, we of we often make it like, oh, we're giving to charity. We oh, the. the the homeless person do this for. And. it's like, oh, no, no, you forget that a. lot of the time the people in these. situations Yes. >> they are the main character in their. story and they have agency.

>> Yes. And we were not a nonprofit. We. were not an organization. We were. >> not even some recognized activists. We. were just people there in the community. Um and we simply wanted to have our. normal lives back. We wanted to live in. peace as we were before and continue our. education. It was as simple as that. But. because of the Taliban, we were now. living under terrorism. uh but you know.

that I'm so grateful that that is. something of the past and it has changed. for us. I. survived I became an activist through. that but when I do this work today. like I think about the 11year-old Malala. and I know there are millions like her. out there. >> They're not just girls who are suffering. or who are being left behind. These are. girls who are determined. They have a. voice. They have agency.

>> And they're actually fighting for their. rights. >> They could be doing it in loud ways. They could be do it doing it out in the. public. Or they could just simply be. doing it at home when they're picking up. their books and their pens and and and. trying to learn. And I'm seeing that. happening in so many parts of the world. from Nigeria to Pakistan to Brazil all. the way to Afghanistan right now. I was. talking to four of the Afghan girls who. we are supporting through a Malala fund. project and they are learning through a.

secret school there because the Taliban. have banned girls education. And one girl told me that she has. converted her home into a school so that. she at least feels that she can continue. learning at home. >> It's beautiful. >> Um so you know this is the the. resilience the determination of girls. They do not need any inspirational. people. They already know what needs to be done,

what future they deserve. We just need. to listen to them. >> Yeah. Ironically, they don't need the. inspiration. They just need the support. >> Exactly. >> Often times we make the mistake of. thinking we're coming in to save the. people is it's like the Superman. imagery. Like even in the most recent. Superman, I don't know if you have you. seen it. I saw it. >> You saw it? Yeah. So, you know, there's. that scene where the people like. Superman, Superman, and I had like mixed. feelings about it because on the one. hand, I was like, I mean, I guess. they're cheering for Superman, but it. made it seem like Superman was their.

hope. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? And I was like, I don't know. In real life, it feels. like they would just be fighting and. then Superman should help. >> Yes. >> You know, >> I know. I know. You know, it's just. like, oh, suddenly it looks like it's a. country in the global south, the Middle. East or, you know, >> it was very like where is this place? >> I know. Very interesting scene. >> What is this place? This border is. weird. Like all of it was. >> um actually No, what were you going to. say? >> No, I was just going to say that it's. not about somebody.

with superpowers saving us. I think it's. about solidarity, support. >> Yeah, >> that can make a huge difference. I think. it's the local people who can lead. change. And that's the whole model of. the work that I'm doing through Malala. Fund. We are supporting local education. activists. So you know we do global. advocacy for education and I speak and I. you know have created this global. platform but like our investments. actually go to local organizations.

>> in Tanzania, Ethiopia, Pakistan, India. um I mean Brazil and. um sort of I think Afghanistan. >> and these activists are changing. policies. They are working on. legislations. They are working with. local community leaders. They are. working directly with girls. And a lot. of these activists are young girls. themselves. So it's like a phenomenal. work. Like when you visit one project, you just see the impact that these.

activists are creating. It's truly. phenomenal. In Tanzania this summer, I. went and I saw how one organization, Imachina Initiative, were addressing the. issue of girl safety walking to school. because these girls have to walk for. like up to 10 miles. I just could not. believe the number. I double checked. I. said, "Are you sure it's 10 miles?" They. said, "Yes, >> that's how long girls have to walk." So. they brought in bicycles initiative. >> to help them uh have a safer and easier.

and quicker journey to the schools. Um. and it's you know not just addressing. the transport issue but it's giving them. safety as well. It's just incredible. work that these activists do like you. cannot fix these problems from DC or. London. >> right. >> it's about us further supporting and. strengthening the local activism that is. happening. It's through grants. It's. through giving them the tools, the. technical support, and being there as. their allies. Like, you know, that's.

that's all we need because for a lasting. sustainable change, we have to. strengthen the local communities. >> Well, I also think we have to see them. as people. And I that's what I love, you. know, in what you've done in the book is. like reminding yourself that you're. looking at people. Often times people. think that refugees are refugees because. they don't want to be in their country. or refugees are refugees because you. know their country sucks or because it's. like no no no these are people who want. to stay there. >> Yeah. >> You know something's pushing them. They. have friends. They have rituals. They.

have ideas. They have like there's like. a vibe that you don't want to There's. mangoes. >> Yes. >> Do you know what I mean? There's the. mangoes. >> And think about your life right now. Like why would you just leave your home? >> Yeah. Who wants to pack as much as they can. and go and start a life in a new. country? Who wants to walk for days and. days, put their lives at risk and. somehow, you know, be praying that they. find safety somewhere? Like nobody wants. that. Becoming a refugee is the last.

resort. It's the last and the only. option that people have who um have to. leave their homes because of the. challenging circumstances. >> I think we have to show more empathy. because this could happen to any of us. due to any circumstances from climate. related events to conflicts and other. dangers. Thinking of you know we should think. about our neighbors. If somebody is in.

difficult situation we we should open. our doors. And I also shared this story. um sometimes that when we became. displaced in Swat Valley um in Pakistan, it was around 2009. It was not that most people were in. these like refugee camps. A lot of the. people were welcomed by strangers in the. neighboring cities. >> People just opened their doors. They. just gave their rooms, their homes, their food, everything. And uh in our. culture that was like completely normal.

because hospitality is a part of uh our. culture. It's part of the pashtun. hospitality. It's a big part of the. Pakistani culture. So I hope that you. know we we promote these good values. everywhere. >> Actually I hope we do especially because. we forget how hard it is to begin a life. somewhere else like. >> Yes. You know, you know, there's there's. the story you tell when when you're. packing your bags, you know, to go to. university in Birmingham. And this this. whole period of your life, I again, I.

would have never thought of you like. that. You're one of the smartest people. I've ever met. You one of the most. thoughtful human beings I know. You you. seem to have a broad range of knowledge. that just I mean, it spans everything. And then I'm reading these stories of. you having self-doubt and struggling and. what was like 41% in English I think it. was. >> Yeah. Like in every subject almost. >> But you see like like in my head I go. like no Mala's always been the high. achiever and and yet here you are. stressed about belonging. And probably.

probably the funniest one for me was. what you packed in your bag. >> Yes. >> When you knew you were going to be out. of your parents watch. There was like. jeans even. Okay. This is what I mean. >> Cardigans. >> Yeah. I never want to wear cardigans. again, but at the time I was like I was. looking up on Google what is trending. So I searched up Selena Gomez 2017. casual style. >> Yes, let's do it. >> Oh, that's amazing. >> I was like, what is Emma Watson wearing. these days? You know, like what are. these cool girls wearing that I want to.

wear as well? I had no idea because. before that I had never really worn uh. jeans and just more casual western sty. style clothing. >> right. >> and and I was thinking about like okay. what else is there outside shallvaram. means that's the only dress my mom wants. me to wear because for her I am. representing. my whole culture. >> yes. >> and my relatives are watching me so we. cannot uh cause any trouble and she.

should not be taking long phone calls. because people are. shocked to see me in a different dress. And so I was like, I need to figure out. a way. So I was still following some. rules around like, okay, you know, keep. the sleeves long and. >> it's it's still like, you know, a bit. baggy and and. >> but I was like, yeah, I want to um. assimilate. I want to be among these. students and I want to be invisible in. some ways that nobody can spot me. because my Pakistani clothes are very.

flashy and bright and colorful and. embroidered and all of that. >> So my goal was that when I go to college. nobody's shocked like oh that's who she. is or oh this is very similar to the. person we have seen on TV. >> I wanted to look slightly different as. well. Mala undercover. That's what I'm. hearing. >> Undercover. >> TV show. Malala under. >> a student. A student. Like imagine when. you are in college and somebody's like. dressed up nicely. No, everybody's just. >> everyone looks the same. >> in a hoodie, in a cardigan, in a jumper.

They're, you know, they're wearing. leggings or what do you call it in. America? I think I'm using a lot of. British. >> I think I think leggings are I think. leggings are leggings. I don't wear. them, but I I think it's leggings. >> Yeah, I know. Like the the I sometimes. struggle like trainers, boots. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, that thing. Yeah. I was. just I don't know some people will. figure it out. People let them let them. Google it the way you had to Google the. fashion. Just be like what what was what. was Malala wearing? >> Cuz cuz this is the thing like people I. mean the fact that you had to ask people. like what fish fingers were.

>> Yeah. >> They are the same thing that we in South. Africa. Fish finger is a it's like a. processed type of fish that's then in a. Okay. Okay. All right. Do you like fish. fingers? >> Yes. But you know for me it was like the. name you know if you think about it fish. fingers. What? What did you Okay. What. did you think it was? Cuz I've I've. actually asked people this question and. there's there's one of two. Some people. go, "These are the fingers of fish, but. fish don't have fingers." So, it's it's. referring to a part of the fish that. could be a finger. >> or it's pieces of fish that are shaped.

like fingers. Which one did you think. when you read fish fingers? >> The farmer. The first one. >> So, you thought it was like a part of a. fish? >> Yeah. I was like, there's many species. Who knows? You know, there could be a. fish out there. It could be like a. British fish. >> Hello. >> Exactly. Like, do we know all all the. fish? No, we don't. >> There's the one with the light bulb. So, I mean, there could be one with the. fingers. >> Exactly. >> I mean, that makes sense. >> Yes. But then, yeah, eventually my mom. also uh found out what clothes I had. taken.

>> Oh. >> When she um So, basically, you know, I I. went for rowing. >> Yeah. >> And I wore my jeans and a green bomber. jacket. >> Yeah. You went for We got to talk about. that. You went for everything, but let's. Yeah, let's talk about the rowing. Yeah. >> Yeah. And then I came back. I thought it. was like a fun day, but I realized I'm. never going to do rowing again. Firstly, because you have to get up at 5:00 a.m. >> Yes. >> And secondly, you you should know how to. swim. And I couldn't swim. So I was. like, okay, good experience, but it's. done. But that evening I got a call from. my parents saying that why were you.

wearing jeans and like you have caused. so much trouble and there's a whole like. social media backlash and I looked at my. phone and there was a whole uh backlash. going on against me wearing jeans. >> who took the picture who was the snitch. >> some stranger. you know snitches man but. >> it's just always. >> like I was very careful in in university. in the beginning I did not want to go to. the clubs and did not want to dance. I. was very careful and and because I. thought like there could be a photo that.

could be taken out of context and people. might create a whole controversy like a. cultural one that. >> you know you're not modest enough, you're not Islamic enough, you're not. push or Pakistani enough, whatever. identity they want to pick on and I will. cause trouble. So I I I skipped things, you know. I was. trying to be, you know, a a um an. obedient daughter. But. >> in the end, it was just simply jeans. >> that were criticized. And I was like, if. people are criticizing my jeans, I think.

I'm going to change my approach. I'm. just going to continue wearing jeans. I. am not going to defend it and I'm going. to move on. >> Uh because I remember my parents were. telling me that so what are we going to. do now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Should we issue a statement? I was like, statement about what? Like saying what? I will never wear jeans again or I wore. them because I said there's none of. that. >> It must have been isolating as well cuz. So here's the here's the thing that. that's that's happening in this moment. right as I'm thinking of the story.

You're in a world where you've left one. world where there are norms and we all. have those. And then you move into. another world where there are new norms. If you hold on to all of those the. previous ones, you'll never fit in. You'll never belong. You'll always be. isolated. >> If you if you hold on to all of the new. ones, then you become isolated and you. don't belong in in where you're from. So. you you it's basically this tug and tug. of war between where you were and where. you are. And I was also noticing that in.

the trolling or the backlash I was. receiving, there were some people who. were saying that why am I wearing a. headscarf. >> and they were criticizing that I was not. fully. >> independent and because I was still. wearing. >> Wow. Yeah. Now you're stuck between like. all different worlds. >> So for everybody it was all about am I. representing my my cultural culture. fully? For some it was like well you. have um given up to the patriarchal.

culture or you are you have lost your. autonomy and that's why you're dressing. that way. And I was like it's none of. that. It's just these things are a part. of me and sometimes I want to wear. something. Sometimes I don't I don't. even think about who I'm representing. I. just want to feel comfortable in what I. wear. And who knows I might change my. sense of fashion with time but it's just. the scrutiny that you face and that you. are constantly being watched and. criticized and and and one thing which I.

told my dad when he was arguing with me. was that why is it always about my. clothes that is a topic of discussion. My brothers immediately switch to jeans. and tops. Not a problem. No calls from our. relatives. >> I like how you just dragged them into. it. >> No, >> your brothers were safe and you were. like, "What about that?" Is the classic. sibling move. >> What about my brothers?

>> My brothers. >> It is true. Also, like I'm really scared. of my mom. So, it's really hard to argue. with her because you will never win. So, somehow you have to just come to an. agreement where she respects your. decision somehow. But you can never say. that I was right. You can never say. that. But with my dad, I am like a. debater. I argue with him. So I was. like, "Dad, have you ever pointed a. finger at your two sons and what they.

were?" And he stopped for a second and. said, "Yes, I think you are right.". Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, that's amazing. >> Yeah. He he is um an amazing father, an. amazing man, an amazing husband. for for. me of course like I was so grateful that. he was a great father and he always. tells this story that don't ask me what. I did but ask me what I did not do. >> for my daughter and that is I did not. clip her wings amazing father but I. think. >> what made an a greater.

um impact or what made like an even. bigger difference on me was how he was. treating my mom how he was a great. husband as well. >> and that influenced me a part in how I. had like very high expectations for the. person who was going to be my life. partner. Even though I had a lot of like. questions about if I'll find one and do. I deserve one and is he the right one. but the one thing I was sure of was that. I needed that I know how I should be.

treated because I saw how my dad was. treating my mom. Um, so I think you know. our dads can also be role models for us. for how they can be like good husbands. and also like better parents to the sons. in the family. >> No, definitely. I agree with that. I. agree. >> And how they treat others and. >> so wait. So what about your brothers? Do. they have like the flip relationship? Cuz a lot of the time that'll be the. case is like the girls will have an. easier time with their dad and then the. boys will have an easier time with their. mom. >> We have a typical family. >> So it is it's exactly that. three.

siblings. I'm the oldest daughter and. then two younger brothers. The middle. one is also following the stereotype. It's just like such a stereotypical. house. >> You're so normal, Malala. So noble. >> I know. All the memes and reals you guys. see are like so relevant. Send them. across. >> Don't go anywhere cuz we got more what. now after this. [Music]. as as we move as we move through your.

life. Um I I loved how you. it's like you found joy in like the. small things but like really not in like. a saintly way, not in a pious way, you. know, like your your dorm um I think it. was in Oxford. >> Not like I opened a book and I smelled. the pages. No, not like that. Not like. that. Not pretentious. >> More like I closed the book. It's exactly I just like. >> Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, I was. smelling what my friends were having and. I was like, hm, what's that?" And I was.

like, "Oh, what are these new things?". And, you know, what are these people. doing? I I want to talk to you about. your first friend because. >> it's it it seems like one of the most. important relationships in your life and. your first friend I should say in your. new life because you you you had your. friends from home, you've got your. school friends, you've got your your. your childhood friends, but you make. this new friend who I feel like we are. partially we should all be grateful to. her as well because like she she just. gave you normal, you know.

>> Which one? Oh, I think it was it Kora. maybe was. >> Yeah, the first one, right? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Uh so she was my height and uh when. I was walking around on the college open. day just trying to like figure out who. to say hello to, I I saw her and I you. know was giving myself this confidence. that don't be shy, say hello. It's like. hi I'm Malala. What's your name? Hi I'm. Kora. I'm you know I was like what are. you studying? Studying PP. He was like,

"Same, I'm also studying PP." Like this. is. >> Wait, what is what is PP? >> Philosophy, politics, and economics. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Philosophy, politics, and economics. Okay. PPE. Got. it. >> Yes. >> I didn't I didn't go to university. I. don't know any of these things. >> You know, and where do you live? And why. did you decide on this college, you just. start a conversation? And. >> so, you know, we became friends, but I. thought she might ask me about my past. and and she might have these like, you. know, strange questions that I'm often. time asked. She asked none of that.

Never. Never in my life. All of the. friends I made in university, they never. immediately asked about my. profile and like you know what they had. seen on the news or. >> um and there were some people other. people who were asking me things like so. what was it what was it like meeting. this person or that person and what did. you say to Obama? I like I did not write. the minutes. Uh what was it like meeting. Emma Watson? They were like can we meet.

her? And I said like no just because I. have met somebody once doesn't mean I. have their phone number and I can call. them right now. >> Nobody understands this. I'm so glad. you're saying this right now. Nobody. they they see you meet someone once. >> Yes. >> They think you're now best friends. >> They think you have their phone number. They think you can like organize. something with them. Have you had it. where people ask you to pass something. on? >> Yes. >> Yeah. I've I've got that. Can you ask. them to record a video message for me? It's my birthday. >> Yes, I will send this I will send this. to Barack Obama. I have his number and.

I'll ask him to send them. It's It's so. wild. But what but it what what it feels. like they were giving you was it feels. like they were allowing you to write. your story from scratch in that moment. >> Yeah. So the people who became my. friends for life were asking me about my. assignment, how I was coping with the. essay crisis, did I need help with the. questions and what party was happening. that evening, uh who was up to what, who.

was dating who and I was quite helpful. in giving relationship advice. So they. were bringing up all of their uh. problems to me. A lot of them were just. problems. And uh I was like yeah this. guy is sort of uh signaling to you very. clearly that he does not want to talk to. you if he's taking 3 days to reply. >> you know so. >> wait so you were that friend in the crew. you were like the relationship expert. friend. >> Yeah because at the time I thought you. know I'm I'm just this observer I can.

see from the outside. >> I'm like I'm like the coach. They were. like how do you know it? I said, you. know, like coaches are are never on the. field, you know, they don't they're not. the players, but they know what what is. happening, >> right? They're watching the game. >> They're watching the game. >> Sometimes you have the best perspective. because you're watching the game. >> Exactly. So, I were I was fixing all of. their problems. I I knew who was putting. too much effort and who needed to put a. bit more effort and who needed to move. on from their school boyfriend and, you. know, realize that they were changing as.

a person as well. They could not be. stuck in the past. Oh, that feels a. little bit like it cut it like it it. went, you know, like one of, you know, sometimes you give advice and then it it. goes close to home. >> Yes. >> You know, like were you ever. experiencing any of that in giving the. advice, realizing there's parts of you. that you had from home that you were. trying to hold on to that you now had to. let go of. >> but still hold on to the parts of. yourself you wanted to keep? >> I didn't understand that question. >> No. So, what I mean is so so you in this. moment you're giving this advice to your. friends and and what you said was really.

poignant. You said, "I was there's one. friend where you noticed that she was. holding on to a boyfriend from the past. and an idea of herself and you were. like, "Hey, now it's time for you to. move on.". >> Yes. >> And I wonder if that cut close to home. for you because you were also in a. position where you had this. >> older version of yourself. >> You're now in the present and you're. facing this uncertain future. Did you. also feel like for yourself. >> you have to figure out what you're. willing to let go of and change and move. towards? >> I think it was a process.

>> Yeah. and it's still. happening. There are parts of me that. >> I suddenly realize that I'm letting uh. go off. It's it's really hard. There are. still things that I want uh to be a part. of me forever. >> Uh but it's it's really a process. I. think in college for me the most. important thing was just being that. jolly student that I once was in. Pakistan and to know that this could be.

my safe space where I feel like nobody's. watching me. >> Yeah. >> And I could be myself. I don't know what. I am. I don't know what I enjoy and what. I love. But I just want to allow myself. to experience all of these things. because nobody's watching. And and that was the best time. climbing. the rooftops, skipping assignments,

watching the sunrise in the morning, chatting with friends for hours and. hours and hours, going for grocery shopping. and um skipping lectures. I I feel like. I'm just mentioning all the bad things. Also, sometimes doing your assignments. and sometimes working hard. U the other. thing was asking for help when you need. help with your academic. performance like uh you know it some of.

us are are hesitant because we feel like. are we the only ones who need it but. when I found out about the student. support. I realized okay you know this might be. the only hope for me now because of how. I had struggled with my um studies for a. very long time in college. >> that when I went there to that room, I. realized that I wasn't the only one. there. There were like other students um. walking out of that uh study room and I. I was like, "Oh, like so I'm not the.

only one." And there's like some of my. friends who are also getting this. support. So I changed my approach. I. said, "Okay, I'll I'll always make sure. that I ask for help.". >> Yeah. >> That's. >> But that's like a normal college life, right? Sort of. >> And and that's Yeah. But that's that's I. think that's what makes it so powerful. is. we forget how much all of us in life. will always um we'll always yearn for. the thing we don't have right and in a.

perfect world everyone will have enough. of what they need you know whether it's. good or even friction could be bad just. have enough of what you need and so I do. like that you're talking about the. rooftops and the late nights and the. talking to the friend because it feels. like in moment in time. That's what you. needed. >> Yeah. And I knew that I would be in. college just for 3 years. >> Yeah. >> I did not know what was happening after. that that I said this is the only time. maybe that I'll have.

>> such fun and I could be myself and yeah. I was like all the surveillance cameras. are are not there. I'm in my safe space. And college was of course like a really. exciting and fun time but it was also a. difficult time at this because you know. I had some experiences where. um it was the first time that I had a a. panic attack like a big panic attack. when I was with some of my friends and.

was struggling with my assignments. Uh, so one friend invited me to hang out. with them outside in the gardens. and and and I joined them. It was still. late at night, but I said, you know, like this is this is so normal for me. I'll finish my essay by by by the. morning. >> Yeah. >> And we were just chatting and they were. trying uh bong. I had never seen bong. >> Like a bong. >> Yeah. Like a bong. That thing. >> Okay.

>> Exactly that. Anyway, I was like, "Oh, what is this?" And they were like, you. know, just like related to weed, all of. that. I was like, "Oh, yeah." Like. that's not that serious. Um, so they. were like, you know, you have to try it. So I took one puff. I coughed. It just I. was like, "Oh, you know, what is this?". Then they were like, "No, no, just, you. know, try one more time." I was like, "Okay." Tried it again. And I felt like. I I inhaled it and suddenly just went. inside.

And I don't know where time went, but. this time I like I lost I disconnected. from reality. And I felt like. um. I I I was just like I thought I was dead. again. I thought I had been attacked and. I thought. >> um even though I don't remember anything. about the incident, I thought it was all. happening in repeat and time slowed. down. I could not feel my body anymore.

and my friend suddenly realized what was. happening. So she held uh me and uh I. was holding her hand tight. She somehow. took me to her room and I don't know how. I survived that night but I could not. sleep because as soon as I would try to. close my eyes I thought this was the end. of it. I would not be able to wake up. Um I thought like I was I was somehow. like losing life and it was um it felt.

like it was again that whole time of the. attack where I was in induced coma and I. wanted to get up but I could not. I. wanted to feel like I was awake. I want. I I needed to know that I was alive and. I just could not. Um. Yeah. But then you know the next day I. knew that my body had changed forever. I. just felt like I could not be the same. person anymore. >> Yeah. >> I became anemic and then I you know. called for a friend and and she um she.

helped me. Then. at the time I just could not explain to. my friends what was happening. I didn't. even know if it was normal or not. I did. not even know if it was a panic attack. or not. >> Yeah. Because it's so jarring. >> It's it was just I was like, "Oh, maybe. it's just about me because of what I had. experienced that it was um not something. that other people have also experienced. in in in in their own way. Um but I. think it was really the friends who. helped me in that difficult time.

Something like a sleepover. They just. came to my room and they said, "You. don't have to tell us anything. we're. going to just sleep with you tonight in. your room. Beautiful. They brought their. mattresses. Yeah. >> And uh but then eventually one other. friend of mine, she um she said, "You. need to see a therapist.". >> Huh. >> That was the first time. It was months. later. I thought I. >> And wait, this was the first time you. had ever gone to a therapist? >> Yes. I so in Birmingham I was receiving. all of these medical treatments and.

>> from like facial symmetry to like the. nerve surgery to the hearing implant and. all of these things were happening and. then there was a a therapist as well and. she was the only person in that whole. hospital that I did not like. >> Oh wow. >> I thought she was asking me too many. questions and. I just want to like recover. I just want. to be able to get up. >> Yeah. Why is she asking me about how am. I feeling? I said what's there to talk. about feelings right now.

>> that many years later. I I did not know if therapy would be. helpful at all. Um and then my friend. said no like we all like she said like. she goes um to see a therapist. She said. and I was like but you are she's like. that's not the point. >> Um we can talk about different issues. You don't know who it's affecting. And then I realized that so many people. were actually seeing therapists. So that. was the first time I saw a therapist. many many years later. Um and it was.

because of these panic attacks that I. realized I have to go and see a. therapist because in the end I felt like. I just I just could not do it. I just. could not. When you when you share that, it um it reminds me of a conversation we. actually had on the podcast with um a. neuroscientist who specializes in. trauma. >> Yeah. >> And she taught us something that I' I'd. never known before, which was. >> people who have experienced an like an.

acute trauma, part of their PTSD is. their cortisol levels change like the. normal the baseline. >> Yeah. And where most times in society, I. think this was discovered around the. 1980s um with the veterans of the. Vietnam War, it's that people had sort of depleted. their cortisol. >> Yeah. >> And so something could inflame it, something could trigger it, something. could bring it back. And the most. important thing she said about the. trauma and just how we talk about these.

things is we often assume people should. be willing to share their stories when. we're willing to hear them. >> Mhm. But the real thing that unlocks it. is them meeting a person at the right. time who says the right thing. Often. it's a person who's experienced. something similar. You find you find you. share. >> a different bond, a different. connection, a different. >> a different way of of speaking about it. even that's less sanitized. >> than you know sometimes like a strict. therapist patient relationship. So it's. it's it's amazing that that you.

experienced that on the ground. Did you. find that the therapy helped? >> The therapy helped a lot and I fully. agree with you. I could not explain it. to my parents. I could not explain it to. anybody else. I could talk a bit about. it to my friends and I think they. recognized that I needed them around me. >> Yeah. >> And then they also realized that maybe. you also need to see a therapist. The. therapist was very helpful to be honest. In the first session, I thought I'll. like explain everything and just throw.

everything at them and then they'll tell. me what's wrong with me and give me some. medication and then I call mechanic in. you. >> Fine. Yes. Exactly. I was like, fix the. problem. >> Figure it out and fix the problem. And. she was just nodding. I kept talking and. she was just nodding and I was like, where is this going to go? >> It is. Yeah. The first therapy session. is always a strange one. >> Yeah. Yeah, they keep asking you. questions and you're like, >> "Let me explain it back to you." But I. was like, "What's," you know, >> and then I had a few more sessions with.

her. I would like write down what I was. experiencing and there were like some. good times and I felt normal and then. there were times when like you know my. body was sweating and. >> wow. >> uh you know I I could hear my heartbeat. and I. >> um I was panicking and like small things. could trigger me or or just like make me. somehow feel like like I had lost. Uh. it's it's really hard to explain these. things, you know. >> No, I I I think I can I understand it. I. think of like.

>> when I've had to deal in therapy with, you know, my mom who was shot. So, my. mom was shot in the head by my. stepfather and. >> even though I wasn't there, I have. images, you know, because my brothers. told me the stories and my mom, you. know, when I got to the hospital and she. was being wheeled into ICU, >> the image that I have of her is still in. my head. >> Yes. And one of the hardest things to. try and explain to people is is how your. mind is like a carousel.

>> Yeah. >> You can't reliably with, you know, retrieve. the memory the way you want to. >> It's spinning. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's there, sometimes and then. sometimes the light hits it in such a. way that it really shines Yes. >> at you in the in the most harsh way. And. that's that's when you'll feel. >> a lot of the time what you're not able. to feel. You know, like what you said in. the in the beginning of our. conversation, >> many times we can tell the story and. sometimes I feel like that's when the. carousel is far. >> and you just tell it. >> and then sometimes you feel the story.

and you know it might be triggered by. something random. >> and I've learned that's where like. therapy, especially good therapy. >> starts to help you bridge those gaps. Yeah, you start to bridge the gap. between where you were, what you were. feeling, who you are and what you're. feeling and and then merging those two. worlds into one. >> Yes, 100% agree with you because you. know I would not have been able to say. anything about it a few years ago and. you know with the help of therapy and.

just how my life um took a different. trajectory. It was not just the incident. and the panic attack, but it was many. other things like the decision to marry. or not and what my life would look like. after I graduate and I graduated in the. pandemic. So, it was just a lot of. things that were happening that were. quite overwhelming and then I was also. worried about my grades if I would. actually graduate or not because you. know I had been skipping a lot of those. essays and assignments. Uh so like I was. by the end of the university time I was.

quite um quite nervous, overwhelmed. Um. and at the time you know I just did not. even know if if I could ever even share. it. But when I look back and how I have. found my way out um and and I have. learned so much from it, I wanted to. write this book. I wanted to share this. story with other people so that it could. help somebody out there. M yeah. >> and um you know it's not just about.

asking for help but also being there for. people who need help. >> Yeah. And I think it's important for us. to reclaim it as well. >> Yes. >> One of the things I realized in in. therapy was a lot of the way we think of. therapy now is shaped by the west you. know and they'll go therapist and. therapy. And if you come from South. Africa, maybe I'm assuming Pakistan, wherever you're from in the world, a lot. of people will say, "Oh, that's not in. my culture. Oh, we don't do that. We. don't do.". >> But as I've taken time to learn about.

different cultures, I've come to realize. every single culture, if you look back, you know, either it was erased during. colonial times or it's been forgotten. You know, >> I remember being in Machu Picchu and. learning from historians Yes. >> that they had therapy. >> Just not the way we think of it now. But. every culture has elders. Yes. >> And every culture will tell you about. which elders were supposed to do what. >> and some would even specialize. You. know, there'd be these are the people. you're going to talk to just about being. a mother and they'll help you to be a. mother and they'll help you with.

postpartum depression, whatever it may. be. These people will tell you about. relationships. This person and and now. it's become commercialized. unfortunately. Unfortunately, I guess in. some ways. >> but there's an element of reclaiming it. that I think is very important, you. know, cuz cuz then again I find people. can go ah you westernize now. Oh, what. is this therapy thing you're talking. about? That's not our And it's like, no, no, it is our people. Actually, >> talking to somebody who can shed. perspective and wisdom is exactly part. of our cultures. >> I do wonder if it's just for people who.

are in the public eye who face this. pressure that they somehow have to. pretend that they're living a perfect. life and they are not as open about what. they actually feel, what's going on. their in their mind, that somehow we. cannot make a mistake. We cannot just. let a thought come out or just say. something out loud. Uh because when I. think about the culture in our village. in Pakistan. to me like everybody's just being.

themselves. >> Nobody. >> Yeah. >> cares. what you think and how offended you'll. be. Everybody will tell you how they. feel. I have noticed that about my mom. as well. >> She she will show it to you, not just. say it to you. Moms do that. Yeah. >> Yes. And uh and my dad, you know, out of. respect, he's like very passionate about. expressing what he thinks should be done. and what he thinks is right. And I. realized that, you know, like it's it's. not the same uh for me at least.

>> that I keep everything to myself. And I. do wonder if this is because I was so. exposed to media and this outside world. watching me even when I was 11 years old. and I was blogging. I was becoming an. activist. I was seen as this like kid in. school who is giving speeches and she's. a bit smart. So like I feel like. everybody was watching me even though. there was like no camera or nothing. And. that's how I have lived my whole life. that sometimes I feel that you know that.

I I wish there was just less scrutiny. and less surveillance and and that we um. allowed ourselves to. express our opinions or thoughts more. openly. >> Yeah. Because as you were saying like. that's how therapy should technically be. because you say something in front of. your friend and your friend is like why. or like you know it didn't sound right. let me explain it to you or like but. have you thought about this thing or I. fully agree with you it never occurred.

to me wow I'm hearing this for the first. time it could work either ways. >> and. and I wonder if it's affecting more. people out there. >> I think it is. >> because of social media because of how. these things work now that everybody has. the Tik Tok and Instagram. >> No, I I genuinely think it is. I think. it is. I think it's a combination of two. things. And I'm maybe there's more that. I'm missing, >> but the the more I've thought about it, you know, and to your point, sharing a. spotlight. >> Yes. >> I've I've seen every variation of it,

you know, people having a spotless image. of you, people having a terrible image. of you. >> Yeah. >> I think it's two things that people are. experiencing on on multiple levels. depending on, you know, how prominent. you are. The one is we have more access. to each other than we've ever had. >> Yes. >> In the history of the world, >> but at the same time, we have less. context than we've ever had for each. other in the world. >> And I think that's a terrible. combination of things.

>> You know, I I think to myself, one of. the one of the natural beautiful. occurrences in in the world is how. accents and languages evolve. And I. think that's I I speak multiple. languages. I love accents. The reason I. love them is because they tell you a. story. They tell you how people moved. And it's amazing how you can track an. accent that starts in one part of the. world and if you move far enough and. slowly enough, you see that the accent. is still exactly the same. Yeah. >> Which which always blew my mind. It's. like, oh no, an English accent is a.

Jamaican accent is an Indian accent is. like it's depending on which way the. journey went. >> It's just the gradual change that. started to soften it and it provides it. context. M. >> and I think without context we lose. everything. >> Yeah. >> Like your friends hold your context. So. a friend can say that's not you. >> Yes. >> You know that's not you at your saddest. That's not you at your angriest. That's. not you with you know whatever it is. That's not you in your fullest. >> And a friend can give you grace. A. friend can give you compassion. A friend.

can it's because the person trusts you. in your whole. And so they notice the. anomalies which we all have. >> They don't judge you. They don't judge. you. And I love that. They're not. cancelelling you. >> Yeah. No, no, no. But, I but I think. it's but I think it's because. >> they care for you regardless. >> to be fair to society. >> Yes. >> It's because they don't have any. context. >> I' I've literally had people come up to. me. I wonder if you've had the same. experience. I I've had people come up to. me. >> and they've said often at a live event, >> you know, one man um I was on the road. I was in a place called um Springfield, Missouri.

>> and everyone told me, "Oh, that's Trump. country. That's all red. I wonder what. it's going to be like." And I did a show. there. Had an amazing time. Really. amazing time. And after the show, I was. I was um in the town and I was walking. around and this man came up to me and he. said I was sitting like at a little. diner at a booth and he came up and he's. like, "Hey, can I just let you know my. son brought me to your show and I uh I. didn't like you. I didn't like you, but. I had a good time at your show and. you're a lot different than I thought. you were. Uh thank you." And I said, "Thank you very much." I said, "If if I.

may ask, why what didn't you why didn't. you like me? What?" He says, "Well, I. saw a few clips of yours on Facebook and. I didn't like what I saw, but you know, when I came to your show, I was like, "Wow, you know, I agree with that and I. like that." And maybe I don't think. that, but but he saw more. >> because I was able to be there with him. in person like this, you know, it's. bridging this gap. I think that's. important. >> Yeah. I think people on social media are. often time talking about a conversation. about you. >> Yes. >> It's you are never there. Yeah. >> They're like, "We think this person said.

this and we sure we are so sure that. this person meant this.". >> Yes. >> We're not going to look at the context. >> No. It's a flattening. It's a complete. >> complete flattening. >> That has happened to me a few times. >> Yeah. It's I mean, you know, it's I. think I think it's changing though to be. honest with you. So, I I think I give. most of the credits to Gen Z and then I. guess Alpha. >> in that because they grew up in such. surveillance. Yeah, >> to borrow your word,

>> they grew up in a world where they were. being watched. They were if you look at. the difference in their social media. versus millennial social millennial. social media was all about the filter. Make it look good and make it this and. make it perfect. And. >> and then you look at what Gen Z and. Alpha did, they went, "No, it's vibes. I'm going to take a blurry picture. I'm. going to take a messy shot. I'm going to. write whatever I'm feeling. Then I'll. delete it. You know what? This isn't. >> my tombstone. This isn't how I want to. be perceived forever." And even that. shift, I think, has brought a little. just a little more parity or or little. more balance, I think, into the way we.

see it. I think it'll always be there, but we we're moving, you know. We'll. see. >> If they say that about you, you must. call me and then I'll I'll fight for. you. I like fighting people online. So. >> Oh, I love that. >> I really do. You know why? Cuz I I I. also realized at some point. >> most of it is not real. >> Yeah. >> That was the hardest thing. >> Yes. >> Is most of it is not real. Most of the. hate that people are experiencing of. each other is not real. >> Yeah. >> And that's why even when I've met um. politicians, >> I'll often say to them more in the US,

you know, than anywhere else where where. I've gotten to meet them is I go, I wish. you would spend more time in public. getting along. >> Forget the law. >> Yeah. >> But I wish your constituents knew that. you have lunches together, that you have. dinners together, that you go to each. other's birthday parties, that you. >> Yeah. because they don't treat each. other the way you do. >> Yes. >> You know, >> so true. >> And so if you could show them that side. of your lives, maybe they would be able. to see that side of their lives with.

each other. And then not that it would. it doesn't become like utopia, but you. know, >> Yeah. In my. interactions with real people, I have. like rarely come across. um an experience where I felt a person. was disrespectful or they. um you know were sounding like a troll. like that that hard rarely like it it. doesn't happen. >> So from the very start I knew that I. cannot assume that what I see on social.

media is reflective of the world out. there for whatever reason. And I'm like, it could be the same person, but I know. they won't treat me the same way if they. meet me in person. >> Um, >> so I think, you know, we need to I feel. like this uh connection more in the real. world is is important. Meeting each. other, seeing each other because it. makes us feel more human and it's not. like these fixed objects that we see on. social media and we have such a fixed. opinion about them and. >> yeah, the world of social media is.

crazy. Just 6 months before my marriage, I had. an interview with British Vogue which. was released because you know I was like. on the cover and everything and the. journalist had asked me many questions. about what I was thinking ahead about. life and at that time I had no plans and. I was still in COVID time a recent. graduate figuring out if I wanted to get. married or not because I had like a. billion questions about marriage as an. institution and all of that. So in the. interview somehow I said oh like why do.

we have to get married? Why can't it. just be like a partnership and just two. people living together? Why is this like. this complicated concept of marriage? And when that piece came out there was. this huge backlash that. people eventually were saying that. Malala is against marriage and then they. said nikah. So nika is the religious. Islamic ceremony. >> Oh wow. They made it so specific that. Malala is advocating against this.

religious practice which is like so. important for. >> you know for for us for for for Muslims. for Pakistanis and like when you look. back at the whole interview you you like. you you don't see it like it's not that. I have said that I'm against it. I. >> think nobody should be doing that. There's none of that. But nobody was the. people who were making that claim were. not going to the article. >> No, no, no. They don't. >> And and you you realize that you know.

this is these are narratives that you. know one person ignites it that creates. that spark and then everybody else is. like this is a wonderful opportunity. We. had been looking for it like let's let's. distribute it. Let's share it. So this. there is a bit of that danger with. social media because by the time you. explain yourself it's too late it's. gone. So I I remember again like my mom. and dad were disappointed with me. >> First the jeans, first the jeans and now. this. >> Now this. They're like, "Can you just". And my mom actually said, my mom was.

like, "I wish you had never spoken.". >> Oh. >> And it it broke my heart. I was really. sad. But it also made me angry that why. do I have to somehow sound all perfect. if I repeat my lines? I might clarify it. a bit. >> Yeah. But it, you know, like why why. can't I be a normal 23-year-old who is. just confused about marriage? Why can't. I question it? I can't just pretend like. I have figured out everything and I have. all the answers. And if I'm suddenly put.

on the spot and asked about marriage, of. course, I'm going to say marriage. What? Who's getting married? Me. Why do you. have to get married? That's exactly how. I felt. I thought she like caught me. red-handed. >> Yeah. She like threw a curveball at you. in that moment. Um but you know after that interview was. out. I was still thinking about Assur who's. now my husband and I was you like there. were many moments in which I realized. how he was the right person and the. perfect person for me.

>> That's beautiful. >> because in that moment he was so calm. He actually explained it to my parents. why they should not push me to release a. statement in defense. He talked to them. >> Wow. And when we spend some time. together, I realized that we actually. have the best time. all these questions. I have about marriage and you know this. being an institution historically that. has oppressed women and it's patriarchal. and you know women make more compromises. when they make this decision like how.

much do they lose on the way in terms of. their career and how maternity affects. them or like you know is this guy going. to turn out to be a good guy after we. get married or. >> and I spent some time with him and I. knew he was the right one but when I. think back, I do not regret it for a. second that I had a billion questions. about marriage and I took my time and I. asked him all those silly questions as. much as I could because um this is a.

reality that women and girls go through. >> and I had like everything I I had a. platform, a career, I could make money. I you know what was I why was I so. scared of it? I was an advocate for. girls rights. Like I knew my rights. I. knew women's rights. >> and now here you were. >> and somehow I was scared. I felt like I. was going to lose something. >> Wow. >> Lose something. And um and you know when. I got married I realized wow like it. feels quite normal like oh I'm I'm still. the same person. Nothing has changed or.

like you know something like I'm like. I'm watching you. You know you are my. husband but we're just friends. I still joke with him. I'm like you know. it's just we're husband and wife to the. world outside but we're just friends. No. just kidding. No, but I love. >> We are We are friends. We are best. friends. >> We're going to continue this. conversation right after this short. break.

So, so this is what I what I enjoy is, you know, you even talk about this and. and it's it's it's beautiful to read is. the. it's like it's like the nitty-gritty. It's it's the non-airbrushed. It's the. it's the human, you know. It's just the. human that we all are. >> No one I think most people wouldn't. think of like Malala having a crush. Most people wouldn't think of Malala. being insecure or wondering about what.

love is or what love isn't. Like people. wouldn't have these things. I've. experienced it like in different ways. cuz everyone paints a picture of you. when they paint a picture. I remember. telling someone once, "Oh yeah, and I I. didn't have anyone who would go to uh. prom with me in in South Africa. metric dance. >> People were like, "Oh, you're lying. You. just say I was like, >> "Oh, you have an image of me in this. moment in time. >> You weren't with me for any of the. insecurities or the journeys that I've. been on.". >> I had a question for you. >> Oh, yeah. Shoot. >> Did you ever speak to Zahira.

>> again? >> Like. >> like. >> recently? Yeah. Like never? >> No. >> Did Did it ever feel like you should or. >> H? So, it's a tough one. Um. >> like do you know where she is? No, I I. don't I don't I remember I remember when. I was towards the end of high school, a. friend said that her family had moved to. the US and something. You know, this is this is a this is a. complicated thing that I I I love. grappling with in life. >> Yeah.

>> Is that is there's a difference between. the feeling and the reality. >> Right. Often times in life we are. chasing the feeling of something. And because the story has been told to. us, we assume that that feeling exists. within a reality. So just to give people. perspective, I mean, you know it, but in. high school, I was an absolute proud. loser. I was a nerd. I spent more time.

with my computer and my video games than. with people. But I I I got along and I. got, you know, there were people that. I've made friends with in school. But I. and and I was very lucky that you know. later on like Brian became like my best. friend and I but I had a very small. tight-knit group and one of the people. who was really nice to me was a girl. named Zahira right Zahira and her friend. Joanna right they were really really. nice to me. >> and Zahira was one of the most beautiful. >> beautiful girls in school like. >> I read it in your book. >> I just I mean it was true she just but.

what what made her more beautiful was. her kindness her vibe she was nice she. >> some people male and female, only smiled. at the popular kids, you know. She. smiled at everyone. She She got along. with everyone. She it and and I remember. and she talked to me and I remember. being like, "Wow, this is the most. amazing thing.". >> And. I always thought to myself, I would love. to ask her to be my girlfriend, which. was a crazy I'd never had a girlfriend. It was it was this terrifying thought.

>> And then, as I say in the book, I never. did. And then one day she just didn't. come to school. Her parents had left the. country and that was it. There's no. social media in that way. And it was it. you know now the thing that I hold on to. is a the lesson as I shared. >> It was one of the moments in life where. I went try to avoid regret. >> Yeah. >> You know regret is an unanswered. question. >> Mhm. >> You'll always wonder what if? What if? What if? Rejection is a bruise. You know.

you'll feel it. We I'm not going to lie. to anybody. you'll feel rejection. You. know, >> there's nothing worse than the. unrequited love or the friend that. didn't, you know, whatever it is. >> But the the regret is the what if. It's. the it's the infinite what if. So that's. the first thing. The second thing I hold. on to is the idea. and that is like why would I contact the. person? I would contact them because I. have an idea in my head that that person.

holds. this piece of a happiness that maybe I. will attain if I find them again. Except. >> yes, >> but I then realize even in this moment. in time, I have the happiness because. I'm experiencing it. I just think it's. going to be there. And so the analogy I. use with my friends often is I go, why. is it that all boys grow up wanting a. Ferrari, but they've never been in one? like genuinely, you know, and not to not. to um reduce a person to a vehicle, but. I just think of like the images and it's.

a simple one. Boys grow into men who dream of a. Ferrari. Why? You've never been in one. You've never owned one. You've never I. want a Ferrari. I want a Ferrari. It's. like why? Ah, because then I'll because. then I'll what? And over time, if you're lucky enough, either you do experience it and it's it. is or it isn't what you thought. But. even without it, you you can realize. you've never been in it and yet you. truly believe that it's going to make. you happy. And if you envision yourself. in it, you even become happy. Then it's. not the Ferrari you want. It's the idea.

of the Ferrari that makes you happy. >> Yeah. >> And if you can try pursue that feeling, you can find it in your friends putting. their mattresses in your dorm room, >> anywhere. You you you truly and I know. sometimes people like ah I that sounds. like but I I won't lie to to your to. your stories of like running on rooftops. and going shopping and late night. conversations. That's the thing that I think we need to. hold on to more is the idea and the. understanding of the feeling that's. behind the idea, not just the idea. itself. So no, I I never I never reached.

out. I never did. But I'm glad I'm glad. I'm glad you you know I'm glad you. didn't regret like you pursued love. you. you pursued love but you know Assar was. not my first love. Um I had a crush. before Assur and uh this was before I. had met Assur so you know just to. disclose. >> No no no clipping internet don't worry. we'll we'll it's in full no clipping. >> but it was a similar thing that.

this guy TK was this mysterious. boy in college. >> Yeah. And there was not much that I knew. about him, but I knew he was cool. because there were secrets about him and. he was that guy who gets in trouble. And. somehow I thought maybe I could fix him. >> Oh. >> So I would ask him questions like why. are you, you know, why are you upset? Then he.

would complain about the essays and the. tutors. And I said, why is nobody. helping you? I think we have to talk to. your tutors. Let me bring this up to the. principal. And he said, "Nah, man. It's. just, you know, it's just. >> bad boy, TK.". >> Bad boy. And um yeah, like he would just. come to my room and eat bananas and any. snacks and then leave. But for me, I knew that I could not be. with Tariq. Taric was just an idea. It. was that feeling.

>> Yeah. >> And was never even going to become real. I and I did not even know why I was. chasing him because at the time I didn't. want to get married or I didn't want to. have a boyfriend or any of that like um. >> was that because what. >> culture I was still new in college. >> right right. >> it was so overwhelming like I was still. fighting for my right to wear jeans I. was not going to think about a guy. >> and with Tariq I knew I was like this. but there's something about him that I'm. somehow chasing him and in the end he.

disappears from college because you know. he's that boy who gets in trouble and. and you know he's that bad boy somehow. >> But I just I just love that I had that. experience where I felt like I was a. part of something. >> I did not really cross the line, but I. was in it. I don't know. Somehow it just. it just was my first love experience. that. >> was truly one-sided. >> We all need those. I feel like at some.

point. >> it was just this idea. I was trying to. like feel it and um yeah, it was just. from from a distance it was all an. imagination and sometimes I feel like it. was a dream and then uh I meet Assur who. you know I'm like wow he's also handsome. let's consider him. >> That's beautiful. You know you know what. I love that you say it's like a dream. and it's an imagination but I think. that's what it is. It's a powerful. imagination. And the older I've gotten, the more I've. realized it's an imagination that we.

have of ourselves. >> Yeah. >> That's one of the most complicated. things to learn about like love in those. moments or the idea that we have of the. love. >> is that. that person is either seeing us or. allowing us to feel seen in a way that. we haven't before or in a way that we. feel good or feel comfortable and feel. and and there's something beautiful in. that like do you know what I It's just. like you imagining yourself because. again to your point it hasn't happened. >> I wanted I wanted to be the main. character. I thought it was a movie and.

I had watched so many. >> Indian movies and TV dramas that for me. was that moment that there's this. mysterious guy. It's it's it's a typical. story who's not looking at you but he is. the one because he's not looking at you. so amazing. >> and he's good-looking and all of that, but you know, um I don't want to use. rude words, but you know, a s h o l e. >> Oh, [ __ ] I'll say it for you. I can. be your rude word say. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Sort of like that. >> Whenever you need to say that word, you. just call me and I'll pop up there and. be like [ __ ]. >> So, you know, at the time I I did I did. not know if I uh would be loved by. somebody. I could not love myself. either. But that was just the first time. that I was feeling something where I. thought. maybe in imagination. >> there are no rules and it's okay for me. to have a crush on this guy and to be. curious about his life and sort of.

follow him around, check on him. Does he. need any help? Get him biscuits and tea. and whatever he needs. But he did not want my help to be honest. other than the food. He was a boy just. wanted bananas. just always in trouble. and um then he disappeared. >> When you when you thought of yourself. in love or being loved, was it ever difficult to bridge the gap. between who you saw yourself as and who.

everyone else thought you were? Like how do you love a saint? >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? I think. I wanted that person to not see me as a. saint. Yeah. >> I wanted that person to. see me for who I was. And. >> Assur from the start never received me. as the Malana or as the girl he had.

heard about somewhere. He never even. asked me a single question. I think even. to this day like we never talk about. what happened and what was life like in. Swat Valley and um you know he read my. book I think around the wedding time or. after that. >> just to catch up on the story because I. I feel like he thought my dad asked. might ask him questions. So you know for. him it just didn't matter. >> Yeah. >> For him. he he saw the malala that was in front.

of him and she was growing. She was. learning. She was still asking questions. and she was still figuring things out. Like he accepted me for who I was and. who I was becoming. That was really uh life-changing because. even now I don't feel like I have to be. this like fixed version of me. We're so. open with each other. We giggle, we. laugh. I can be so silly with him. I'm. truly like myself. I I don't think twice.

when I say something in front of him. That's the best thing. >> It's not about like, oh, am I hurting. your feelings or something? And and. you're not hurting your feelings. Like. somehow you just you know how to look. after each other, how to keep each other. happy and um and even like and because. he's just like so amazing that sometimes. even if I am like upset about something, it's just so minute. >> But for him,

he cannot see me upset. So he will take. it very seriously. He'll just like stop. everything. And he said, "Let's resolve. the issue." And I'm like, "No, it's. fine. It's not a big deal. No, nothing. is going on. No, I'm fine. We'll, you. know, just talk about it later." He's. like, "No, tell me what happened." And I. think one time I told him that when he. um drinks his like protein shake, >> Yeah. >> he sort of leaves the glass and then I. pick it up and I rinse it. So I was.

like, "This is a big deal. Why do I have. to rinse your glass? And I was like, patriarchy, man. All of these things. I. was like, I'm advocating for girls. rights. I do not want to be an advocate. at home. You know, imagine like you're. fighting a battle and then suddenly. you're like, I have to fix the guy at. home too. >> So I was like, no, nothing. And then I. was like, well, you know, my mom was. here as well. And like I just felt so. much pressure. And I thought, >> it's not that it was just us too. I felt. like people were watching us as well.

And I thought they were judging us like. and he was like, "Oh, you know," he's. like, "But but we split work. Like, you. know, you do the dishwasher, but I do. the the the clothes washing and I do the. laundry and all of that." And. >> and I was like, "Yeah, you kind of do a. lot more things than me." That's true, but there's something about the dishes. And I was like, it's just like my mom. also like noticed it. And then he said. like, "Yeah, sort of like you're right. Yeah, of course I should like, you know, pick up the dishes or whatever I use and.

and put them in the dishwasher. >> Like that point onwards, it's been like. 2 three years now. >> I have never seen him like leave his um. class. >> Yeah. Um. >> I mean then the human rights speech. worked. >> No, it's just me being upset that. worked. Just making, you know, it a big. drama. >> A little bit of drama goes. I could I. wish I could do the same outside like. >> 122 million girls out of school. What. are you guys doing? I'm not going to.

talk to you. >> Yeah. Just. >> this is what I want to tell leaders. Why. would you not invest in girls education? Why would you not put money in there. when you know the benefits are. exponential? It will improve economies. It will. reduce poverty. It will help tackle. climate change. It will. help create a better, safer future. Why. is it that 120 million girls do not have. the right to be in school?

>> What do they say to you when you ask. them these questions? >> I think it's the same old thing like in. the last 5 years we have committed more. than this many million dollars. >> Yeah. Yeah. Committed. >> And we are committed more than ever. >> pledging and committing. Yeah. And we. know that there's a huge gap in funding. for education. Climate related events, these wars and conflicts are worsening. it. Afghanistan is the most extreme case.

because when the Taliban took power in. uh four years ago, they immediately. announced a ban on girls education. >> Girls are not allowed to be in school. beyond grade six. Women cannot be in. universities. Women cannot work. They. cannot be in the parliament. They cannot. play sports. They cannot go see a doctor. without a male chaperon. They cannot. visit a park. They cannot even speak. loudly when they are inside their. houses. That's how much the Taliban are. controlling the lives of women from. their voices to how they're dressed to.

their movement. It is like the most systemic oppressive. regime that the women are living under. right now. And it's painful to see it. happening. every day. Very painful to see it. >> And the Afghan women are like living it. Um and uh but in this time when I think. about the bravery and the courage of the. Afghan women who are standing up to the. Taliban and they want to like reclaim.

the old lives they had. It's not that. these you know women had a u were sort. of used to this culture. No, they had. fought really hard for their right to be. working, to be in school, and the. Taliban just suddenly took all of that. away from them. Afghan activists are. calling it a gender apartheite. >> That this is systemic oppression in. which women are oppressed simply based. on their gender. If they were born a. boy, they would have a different life. But they are born a girl,

>> they cannot be in school. They cannot. imagine to work. And it's the Taliban. who are determining their lives. and. restricting them to the four walls of. their houses. They are erasing women from public life. in any political participation. They're. literally erasing women. >> and and they're punishing women for. disobeying any of these rules. That's. the most important thing because people. often think that.

>> gender discrimination is a problem in a. lot of countries and in in the global. south or. >> that you know these things happen. It's. culture. It's this and that. And I'm not. saying that that is not a reality. Of. course that is. And things weren't. perfect for women in and girls in. Afghanistan before the Taliban. But. what's different under the Taliban. regime is that it is systemic. The. people who are supposed to protect. civilians. The people who are supposed. to give justice to women and girls are. the ones who are the perpetrators.

They are committing the crimes. It is. systemic crime where they are abusing. their power. And in cases like these, where do the women go? Because they. can't seek justice from the Taliban. >> There's no one. The Taliban police are. the ones who are arresting them for. simply daring to learn or go to a secret. school or protest or simply go to work. So many of these households are run by. women. Women are the are the. breadwinners and the Taliban just do not. allow them to work. So it's a very.

difficult um place for for women right. now. But I'm always inspired by their. resilience and their courage and how. they're fighting back. The activists who. are in exile are doing advocacy globally. from codifying gender apartheide to. bringing women's issues to the stage to. also pushing for the inclusion of women. and girls on the agenda where any peace. talks and dialogues are happening to. also women being present in those rooms.

where decisions about. >> the future of Afghanistan are made. >> right. >> um and at the same time they are like. running projects in the country as well. So at Malala Fund we are supporting. both. We are giving grants to. organizations who are putting pressure. on leaders to hold the Taliban. accountable and at the same time we're. also giving grants to organizations who. are providing alternative education from. radios to television to underground. schools to like offline and online. platforms. We're using everything that.

we can to keep girls learning as many as. we can. I I I can't help but wonder as. you're saying that, you know, often. times when we are told these stories, if. you live in a country like the United. States or the UK or, you know, any of. the the more powerful nations, often. times it sounds like people are saying, well, invade or, you know, it swings. between two worlds. Either fully come in. with a militarized force or do nothing. it's a binary that that reduces um the.

solution down to only two when it feels. like it could be more nuanced. So when. when you when you're looking at the. situation, you know, you're talking to. activists and you're talking to. advocates, >> what are some of the things you think. world leaders could actually be doing. beyond going in and then just, you know, creating more war and more turmoil? I. think for me it was never about whether. the military should have stayed there. forever or. >> for me it was about how they left.

>> Yeah, definitely. >> And in what state they left the country, they did not give power to the local. people. Um I think the US just suddenly. brought the Taliban out of nowhere to. these peace talks like so-called peace. talks. Um the Taliban had little control. and suddenly the US was like we're going. to leave and we're going to bring you. back so we can negotiate with you. Like. negotiate on what? And Afghan women and. girls uh were not included. Their issues. were not really brought up. They were.

pushed aside. and what's happening in Afghanistan is. because of what the Taliban are doing. right now. But I think the countries who. let that happen and who are still silent. and looking away are also complicit. >> Yeah. >> They should also be held accountable. And that's why I think that campaigns. like codifying gender apartheite in the. crime against humanity treaty or just. like really questioning our. international law is important because.

like when such horrible things happen. like you know I I think about the girls. I'm like, is anybody thinking about. them? Why are the Taliban. getting away with it? Four years and. somehow we are still saying if and but. this and that and and leaders are. sometimes just issuing a statement. saying um yes, Afghan women deserve a. better future and and and that's it. They don't do anything. >> They're not.

>> putting any pressure on the Taliban. They are some countries are even. normalizing their relationships with. Afghanistan. >> Oh wow. I didn't know that. >> And uh and and the women are still even. in the last UN talks between the Taliban. and the UN representatives in Dha, Afghan women and girls were excluded. That was 2024. I had a call with the um with the UN. secretary general and I highlighted this.

that we cannot decide the future of. Afghan women when they're not present in. the rooms. They are half of the. population. Anything that's decided. about the future of Afghanistan is also. about their futures. So they must be. included. Um I think it's you know it's. about solidarity and support for each. other. We need to share more empathy. We need. to share their stories. And sometimes we. feel helpless. You know, what can we do?

I think there are options out there from. supporting the Afghan activists to their. organizations or asking your. representatives and and your governments. about what they're doing. Um and. but sometimes it's just simply sharing. their stories, simply paying attention. to like or just stopping for a second. and and learning about what's happening. in Afghanistan is a form of solidarity. >> Yeah. I think it's it's providing a.

complexity. and a human side to a statistic, you. know, so that it's not just a statistic. If if if anything that's that's one of. the lessons that I learned from reading, you know, your book now is. it reminded me that we all have an. obligation in a beautiful way by the. way, you know, not not as like a task. but in a beautiful way. >> to think of ourselves as the people. we're trying to help. >> Yeah. You know, and it actually it. actually made me wonder if.

your journey, you know, the Malala who. goes to Birmingham, the Malala who then. goes and studies in Oxford, the Malala. who starts an an organization, the. Malala who falls in love, who gets. married, >> as as you got to explore and and um you. know flesh out these parts of yourselves. as fully as you have, >> do you think that's reinvigorated your. your fight? Do you think that's made you. want to go back even more because it's. it shows you how much more there is to. fight for?

>> I think I started my journey as an. activist as an idealist. >> H. >> and that's partly because I was very. young when I became an activist. Now I'm. 28 and I have experienced so much more. than when I was 11 or 15. and that visionary optimistic. child Malala is is still in there but I. feel there's a bit more cynical and. skeptical Malala.

>> who has also seen rejections rejections. we always remember. >> who has seen setbacks how. >> the whole country of Afghanistan can be. uh a place for women and girls where. they do not have any rights they. suddenly become secondass citizens. >> Yeah. >> To. seeing how still we are so behind on. creating a world where every child can. be in school and can have the. opportunity to learn. Yeah. >> Like it's it should be a right. Nobody.

should be in any way limited. >> in learning. It's the simple right to. like be able to read a book. >> It's a it's crazy that it's even. considered a luxury in many ways. you. know, just if you think about it and I. know with technology things are changing. and it's a different story in like. developed countries but I'm like. whatever you want to call it online or. homeschooling or whatever you want to. call it that debate is separate but. >> it's just this right to learn. >> and to see how many millions of girls.

and children are denied this right is. shocking like we're still living in this. time we are making progress on so many. things and still we are leaving like. this this generation ation of children. um without an education. So I think. that's like it's the foundation. It's. the foundation of who we become and what. opportunities we can have in life. >> It's a step towards progress. It's a. step towards more prosperous um economy.

and there's so many benefits and for me. it's you know it's like the reality of. the world we're living in right now that. with an education I believe girls can. make decisions about their life and they. can choose their own future that's the. most important thing we cannot let them. be in a place where their future is. decided by somebody else. >> yeah let them be the main characters in. their stories. >> or their culture or you know whoever it. is elders or whatever that is. It It's. them making those choices for themselves. without pressure, without judgment, um.

that they can be free souls. >> I really love that and I I appreciate. you sharing that. I um I think that was. that was my favorite takeaway and. it it sort of ties everything up. perfectly. You know, when I read the. book, you know, some of the main themes. I thought of was one, we should never. take for granted the power and value of. belonging. >> Mhm. >> For ourselves in our lives. for the. communities we're so. refugees for.

Nobody doesn't want to be with their. people. >> Yes. >> And if we remember that, we then try and. make sure that their worlds are better. so that they can be in their world. instead of fighting with them coming. into our world. >> And then the other one that that I I. really enjoyed you sharing is. >> that it's always a work in progress. You. know, it's like we we find you at this. moment in time as Malala and we'll find. you at another moment in time in the. future and we'll find but in the same. way you as a person are are, you know, a. work in progress. All of these issues,

life is a work in progress. We're still. we're still trying to figure it out. We're still trying to, >> you know, we'll see. Do we want to wear. jeans or do we not want to wear jeans? You know, we'll we'll figure it out as. we go. So, yeah, I appreciate you. sharing it. Thank you. >> For me, I I see a sense of belonging in. a very different way than I used to. I. thought it was always about the place. where you were born, where you spent. your childhood. >> And now with time, I'm realizing that I. have actually spent a lot more time. outside Pakistan than I have inside. Pakistan.

>> But that strong bond and connection with. the country where I was born can never. be taken away. >> Yeah. >> Even if I spend the rest of my life. somewhere on Mars, it can never be taken. away. I feel like a part of me belongs. to that soil to that air like like I'm. there like my soul is somehow there. It. is but it is I genuinely believe that. >> and when I visited my my parents village. Shangla where we had built a school and. I wanted to visit that school and just.

see the girls like the first class that. were graduating. >> but I also saw the graveyard of my. grandmother Abay who was so dear to me. and I just could not imagine losing her. because I thought she was somebody who. was praying for me all the time. I felt. safe when she was there. And when she. was gone, I immediately felt that. something had gone missing in my life. >> Yeah. >> But when I visited her grave, I realized. that she was there. She was there in in. the air and and and I just felt her.

presence and I felt her prayers. Um but. now like I'm I'm I'm traveling. I am. spending time with my friends with my. husband and I don't find that home and. belonging uh just in the places in the. locations where I am but it's among the. people. >> it's the idea. >> it's it's with my siblings that little. fight that we have the argument it's. with my mom and dad. >> it's with my husband when we are just.

binge watching a TV show it's everywhere. where I meet incredible. girls, activists who give me hope, who. inspire me and whose work is really. changing the world for for people out. there. I always. >> have this uh sense of relief and. happiness in my heart when I see. >> the work of other people and I know. they're doing so much more that we don't. see that we don't hear about.

>> but they are changing the lives of. people. they're changing their. communities and um and you know. and and. I feel safer and I feel happier when I. see that world and I think you know we. should always like hold hands together. and be in solidarity with with each. other and I just for me ideally like. this whole globe should be our home you. know that we are more friendly and more. we're nicer to each other kinder to each. other. >> yeah as my my brother says it the best.

way he says whenever you whenever you. feel skeptical and you feel like the. whole world is going the wrong way, which it can in many times. He always. says, "Go outside and touch grass.". >> Yeah. >> Just go outside, touch grass. You'll see. somebody else on that grass, and that. might be the beginning of a new. friendship. >> Yeah. >> And so, I I appreciate you for that. Thank you. Thank you for joining me. here. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you for inspiring me, but also. reminding me that you're not only. inspirational. I like that. I like to. know that you're flawed cuz it makes me. feel a little better about myself. >> Oh, you're welcome.

Thank you so much, Manala. >> Thank you. >> This was great. >> Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let. them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you. can chat to us. We will read through the. comments and we'll get into it. Either. way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on. what now. And remember, we do this for.

you, so we would like to hear from you. Till next time, thank you.