Kara Swisher: The Queen of Tech Tells All

Kara Swisher is widely considered the. most powerful and plugged-in reporter in. the world of big tech. >> Kara Swisher knows Silicon Valley as. well as anyone. >> My source tonight is the veteran tech. insider Kara Swisher, the host of the. podcast On With Kara Swisher and Pivot. >> Who do you consider your competitors? >> You tend to go wrong by focusing too. much on competition. We want to dominate. the great next global industry. >> Do you feel like it's a backlash or do. you feel like you're violating people's. privacy? What do you do all day? >> Most people think not enough. There is. no better expert, so I got to go to you.

on this. >> following how these tech companies deal. with misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy theories, and you've seen the. struggle. If we want innovation in the. future in AI, in robotics, in advanced. medical stuff, we have to have a robust. pipeline of talent from across the. globe. This is What's Now with Trevenaola.

The end of this podcast? Yeah. You would. have to take a selfie. Pictures are amazing. What do you like. the composition and Everything. >> said where did you learn how to do. selfies and actually Kim Kardashian. taught you. No, are you being serious? >> that Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. I showed you. I showed this. to. >> But not not Yes, but show show him what. he. what she taught you. So she was teaching. me duck face. >> Okay. In that In that time we were.

together. So she's like, "Here's how you. do it." And she showed me. She has a. light, this looney light around her. camera. It's right there. That's how the. picture looked. Kim Kardashian taught you how to take. selfies? >> Yeah. But your day-to-day She's good at. it. No, I mean she I'm assuming that. she's pretty into that. Oh, oh. All right. Uh Every time I've tried to. take a photo it looks like I'm using a. Nokia 3210. Uh okay. That That phone did. not have a camera. That's what I was. about to say. I was like I don't know.

why that image was even better for me. because the Nokia 3210 doesn't have a. camera. EXACTLY. MY PICTURES LOOK LIKE THERE'S SOMEONE. WITH A SKETCH pad and Oh, man. All right. >> You are so good at pictures. That's all. four of them with their babysitter, both. the same day. You know you know I didn't. know what to expect, but you're not. wrong. >> No, there they are. >> Yeah, the the composition That's them. >> the lighting, the picture quality But. where you were standing at Take a pile, say. They love doing that. But we just put a.

sheet up behind us and took the the. sheet made it jump in. >> Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think Do you. think the cameras are actually getting. better on. >> good. The new camera on the i- the new. i- Do you leave your phone portrait. unlocked or locked? >> I let it decide whatever it's going to. do. Yeah, these are amazing computers. They're astonishing. No, I'm I'm just. always intrigued by which people keep it. locked or keep it unlocked. >> Unlocked. Cuz if I want to watch something So if. you turn it sideways does it turn? Yes. Lock it. >> I've just explained to you now.

Do you Do you know what I'm talking. about? No, he doesn't. Do you know what. I'm talking about? Eugene is the perfect. person to have this conversation with us. cuz he's like a mega light. Okay. Right. here there's there's a thing called the. lock screen on this. You lock it and it. doesn't when you do you do that it. doesn't do it. You unlock it and then if. you're watching a movie or or something. on YouTube. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do everything in. real time. Except you're in you're. you're in You're unlocked. It is now. unlocked. Now it's locked. Yeah, there. you go. There. I like keep it unlocked. Keep it unlocked in case you're watching. like If you want to turn your screen.

Then it just goes. >> don't like I don't like my screen. turning when I turn the screen. >> Oh, okay. All right. >> Do you know what I mean? I'm very. intentional about those moments. So. sometimes what I don't like is it will. turn when I'm not trying to turn. >> right. That's right. I just want to look. at my phone from a different angle. Ah, yes. Then you should lock it. Oh, sometimes you're just minding your. business going "Hmm." And then it goes. "Yeah." And then it turns. I don't like. that. Right. Don't turn for me. I will. tell you when it's time to turn. Plus a. lot of the apps that have come out now. they um they auto rotate when you go. into like a full screen mode.

>> They do. They can. So I feel like it's a. You feel like your free will is taken. >> This is exactly what I'm So would you. say This is autocracy really. Yeah. If. you really want to get into This is my. true challenge in life. >> Yeah, yeah. I'm going to keep it. No, you do what you want. See what your. vibe is, but at least now you know cuz. Kara Swisher has taught Thank you. Um no. welcome to the podcast and more and more. importantly, happy birthday. It's not my. birthday. Yeah, I feel like it's never your. birthday. >> No, it's never. I put birthdays all over. the internet so nobody knows my. birthday. Yeah, but then I then I feel. like.

But then I feel like I should say happy. birthday to you. >> Every month is my birthday. You know when I read this about you I. was like this is one of the craziest. things and most amazing things I've ever. When did you start doing this? In 1993, 1992 or 3. You put up your first fake. birthday. No, no, I did that later after. I realized what was happening with the. privacy stuff, which was relatively. soon. I just kept telling different. things. They There's a There's a correct. birthday up there. They've found the. real birthday. So But you just keep I. just change it and tell people different.

things and just I put it up in places. I'll change it differently. Just to. just cuz I don't want people to. necessarily know my birthday. Cuz I was really worried about privacy. from the get-go. When when AOL started, I started covering AOL in the '90s and. that was the first, you know, iteration. of where we are today. Popular one. There were others. There was, you know, there were all kinds of um. message boards and things like that, but. it was real complicated and if you. didn't it was not easy to use. And so. AOL was the first commercial.

interpretation of what we see today and. that wasn't even the internet. That was. a service that was then attached to the. internet. That was, you know, a sep- It. was not the internet. It was like a. walled garden approach. And the minute I. saw what AOL was doing I realized they. were scraping and stealing information. so they could take advantage of you and. sell advertising. >> in 1993? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it was obvious what. they were doing. What did they need all. this information? Why were advertising. come back that were based on my searches. instead of And then when Google was.

there I got it right away. You. understood what their Although initially. Google's business model was not. advertising. They didn't have one. actually. They came upon advertising. This is. I remember using AOL Mhm. and I don't. know what it was like in America, but in. South Africa we didn't really have these. services full on. Mhm. So we would get a. a CD, a disk. >> Everybody did. >> Oh, that was the same. Yes, everybody. That was their method of marketing. Yeah, and I could only access it for.

like it was like 30 minutes. Like each. disk gave me 30 minutes. >> try it out. To try it out, right? >> And then that was but in my world I. didn't know when the next disk would. come. So I'd go on these little chat. rooms and these like I'd make friends on. these chat sites. You know, and I. remember it was like age, sex, location, ASL. And you type that in and then I. would go, you know, age, male, and location South Africa. Then. people would be like you're lying. Mhm. That was the first thing everyone said. You're lying. Yeah. Like there's no. internet in Africa. >> Ah, yes, there is. Well, there's not as. much, I'll tell you that. That was. That's Yes. But they were like there's.

no internet in Africa. And then I would. say, sort of like your birthday thing, I. would go, "Well, I'm the prince of my. village and I have the one computer.". And you know what's crazy? That's when. they accepted it. They were like, >> a prince. Uh-huh. They were like that. makes sense. That makes sense. Welcome to the. internet. You know, it's interesting you. say that about Africa cuz in the early. days Google had this amazing. visualization when you entered the. company. It was a small company at the. time and it would show a globe where all. the information requests were coming. from and it was different colors based. on language and so it was sort of a.

light visualization. So it would show. the amount of questions being asked. around the world and it would be like. beams of light almost like. skyscrapers, right? And you see New. York, big skyscraper and lots of. languages or and you'd spin around to. Europe and there'd be a lot with lots of. light like Germany had German, French, whatever they were speaking and you see. lots of light. And you would spin around. to different Asia was just a. bright because they were using internet. and because the cables that went across. the the seas.

were were linking all these countries, right? Africa had almost no light coming. off of it. It was and I remember turning. to Sergey or Larry I I can't ever tell. them apart at this point. And uh and I. said, "What's going on?" And they he he. said, "They're not asking questions." I. said, "No, they're not allowed to ask. questions because they don't have. access. They have questions." So you. know, this whole asking questions is. about modernity. When you ask questions. and they weren't This one continent was. not able to ask questions cuz they. didn't have the fiber laid. But when.

wireless showed up it grew really fast. because then whether it's be satellite. or whatever happens to be, they got they. had. fiber is a problem ultimately. So when. wireless happened it changed. >> Yeah, like the the physical. infrastructure in most developing. nations is the hardest thing to get. going. Yeah. >> But that's why wireless became the. revolution. So in in South Africa and I. think many parts of Southern Africa and. India we actually leapfrogged the United. States. >> In our connectivity and speed and speed.

Like I remember visiting America and 3G. wasn't a thing here and people were. still on like old CDMA technology like a. GPRS. >> That's for another reason because the. companies didn't want to modernize. And. so you know, one of the things we did. and I didn't interview at the at the. time the head of the FCC and the US had. the most expensive internet access and. the least fast. So I was like, "Oh, so. we're getting shitty service for the. most expensive price." And it was. because of the way these things were. monopolies and they didn't you know, they whatever the cable the cable barons.

didn't own a certain section and where. they they decided to modernize or not. was when things got modernized. And so. there was no competition and they tried. to keep satellite out. They tried to. keep all kinds of things out in the. United States cuz we let these. corporations rule the roost as we always. do. Um and that's why it was so slow to get. here. Competition is what everything is. about in general. There's two things. you've said that that just sparked like. sort of how we should be looking at tech. even through today's lens. The first one.

was when you said you're at Google, you're talking to the two people who. started Google. They have a device that tracks where. people are asking questions from in the. world. They see no questions from Africa and. they're like, "Why is Africans not. asking questions?". >> Well, that was the first thing and also. what they also had is. >> But what what what I'm saying to that. point so the end and I want to hear what. you're going to say after that but it's. wild to me that. the people who are like sort of seen as. shaping the world and the most. intelligent weren't intelligent enough. to come to the conclusion you came to.

>> most intelligent. I don't. Well, of course cuz we we have to make. these people into gods, right? They're. magicians or gods. They're not gods. They're just people and very broken. people many of them. I mean look at Elon. Musk from your country and. uh Wow, wow, wow, Kara, wow. Damn. Damn, the way she just threw that at us. From. your country. That was so slick. He's a proud. immigrant. >> such a slick She threw a ninja STAR AT. US. AND LOOK AT ELON MUSK, THAT CRAZY.

BASTARD FROM YOUR COUNTRY. I MEANT THAT AS A COMPLIMENT. I meant. that as a compliment. Uh he was an. export into this country Okay, go go. take that. >> Good for us for letting him in. That was. great. You know, uh maybe not today but yes for a while. for sure. Um but uh yeah, he should. Well, he should go to Mars. Let's just. be clear. Let's not Let's send him to. Mars. Let's move him to another. >> think he's just trying to get home. Oh, to Mars, yeah.

Like what if we found out that Elon Musk. was an alien who's always just been. trying to go home? Yeah. >> It wouldn't be the most shocking thing. when you think about it. You look at his. mannerisms, the way he jumps, his vibe, the way he he doesn't like really. understand human empathy the same way. What if the guy's just trying to go. home? He's a trapped alien who's trying. to get home. Yeah, there's been movies. like that. There's been movies like. that. Remember where they're like. they're Oh, yeah. Yeah, very well done. Yeah, well done. Like if So, if you were an alien who was. trapped on Earth and you knew you had. advanced technology.

>> the only one here? Yes. Of his kind. >> You have super advanced technology. Yeah. How you're not going to come out and. tell humans I'm an alien. You know what. we'd do to you. Right, right. You know. I think they'd dissect you, obviously. The bigger question should be why did. they send him here? No, but they lost it. they sent him. >> Maybe he got stuck. I like this. He got. lost? Yeah, he got lost. >> Maybe his Maybe his spaceship broke. down. And where where is it? What do you It's still in the sea. Also, he was in the sea and then he swam Yeah, to South Africa. Yeah, so he's got fish. And how do you explain his race, his.

dad? Oof. That's a tough one. He buys sperm. Maybe Okay, maybe. Maybe it's Maybe it's. like Clark Kent Superman. Mhm. Maybe his. dad like found his pod and then has just. been raising him. So, he was out. fishing? Yes. And then all of a sudden there was. a floating. Yeah. And then he and then he and then. he raised him. And then he gave him a. meat suit. There you go. But what was he before? Was he like a. weird blob in a square tank? >> never know. We'll never know. Until we. get to Mars, we'll never know Elon's.

true form. >> Well, we actually know what people look. like on Mars if they Actually today. interestingly you're talking about they. they found some bias uh. bio on Mars. It was a speckled rock and. it has They found something that's akin. to life. There It's not a person but. it's it's a I think it feels like it's. almost like lichen or something on this. rock. It's a speckled rock with bio. material. That's what they're calling it. on it. Yeah. So, that life does exist. Well, water exists there. Lots of stuff. exists there. So, there's a possibility. of further life. That said,

interestingly I just interviewed a bio. uh. an astro uh biologist and physicist and. he and he was noting he was he wrote a. book called his name's Adam Becker wrote. more everything forever which is a sort. of motto of tech people which is not You. can't have more everything forever, right? But they think that. And so, he. was blowing up the Mars idea because. Mars is got gravity issues. They got. massive radiation issues. It's. constantly hit by um comets and.

asteroids and stuff like that. And so, he was like literally the the worst day. on Earth is better than the best day on. Mars. Like because you have to live. below ground like deep into the ground. You have to um protect yourself from. radiation. You your bones get get I. think more brittle. I'm not sure what. happened but you get shorter is what. happens. I'm I'm. >> And you get stupider and if and you get. stupider when you're there. And so, you. do become you know, these depictions of. Martians as sort of mole people is.

actually kind of accurate. That's what. would happen to humans there. That could. be us. Right. This is sometimes where I. think of like you know, like the sci-fi. stories. Yeah, at the same time? Different times. Alternately. No, no. On. the same day. Like they the It just like. goes it oscillates between. >> Yeah, and you age really quickly which. is another thing. So, there's no reason. to want to go there. >> Yeah, at all. You didn't sell it well. So, then what is their What is their. obsession with it? Cuz you can get to. it. No, but I but I but I mean like I. wonder if you've garnered an insight,

you know, going back to what we were. talking about. These men are seen in. today's world at least. They're seen as. like demigods. I've I've talked to. people who genuinely believe that you. should never ever question Elon Musk or. Jeff Bezos. >> Not anymore. That's changed recently. Slowly? Yeah. I don't know. I think. they're their their brand is not great. these days. I mean Elon's brand. >> Yes. was quite high and now it's I think. he was the most hated person in America. recently in a recent I mean over Trump.

In a poll. One of these polls. I was. surprised. I was like, "Not Trump? It's. him." It's actually. It's actually Elon Musk. Musk, yeah. Cuz. he went against Trump. That was the. mistake. >> look No, that's not why. That's not why. it was declined. It was already cuz he. acts like an [ __ ] Like it you know, and he showed himself He showed his ass. I mean that's what he did. He showed his. ass. And I think you noticed, "Wow, he's. a little strange. Wow, he's cutting. without indiscriminately. Wow, he. doesn't know what he's talking about.". He kept showing his ass and you were. like, "Oh, wait a minute." Yeah, he is. an [ __ ] And and just jumping up and.

down saying tweeting things about how we. need more white people on the planet and. etc. You start to be like sort of. repelled by it. And you look at the. brand. Look at look I don't have to. prove it. I don't think it's just. because people don't like him that. Tesla's. sales have. plummeted. Um I think that's part of it. Other party doesn't have a car anybody. wants anymore and there's lots of. competition. Uh China is is is is. tracking him all you know, across the. globe. BYD making great innovative cars.

all across the globe. In this country a whole bunch of car. makers have great Rivian or Ford has. some great cars. Everybody's now. competing and Tesla hasn't innovated in. a very long time except for the. Cybertruck which as you know is the. ugliest car in existence and no and it. hasn't been able to sell very many. except to for men of problematic penis. size. Maybe a woman or two. of problematic penis sizes? Well,

Three three men, yes. Three No, three. three young two young men and one boy, yes. Yes. I don't know. I think it's. really. it's a it's I think it's been with us. forever. That's not a new fresh Yeah, I. you know what I actually think. I actually think we are in a cycle. Like. it's a it's a loop of life. We We often forget that tech was the. domain of the nerd. Mhm. Right? Mhm. Like I know when I was burning CDs, like. when I had my first CD-ROM, my first CD.

writer, my modem, when I was building my. own little rig, when I You know what I. mean? When I was in that world. I can tell you now that world did not. brush up against anything cool or. sexual. Yes, no. Not at all. None of. that. Yeah. Fast forward to today. >> There was no world where I could say to. you, "Ah, my PCI slots got me closer to. that woman." No. Never happened. >> of things are making sense about you. now. So, >> And you know I'm glad you're opening up. about this.

There's times where I. have questions. They You just had them answered. When he. said PCI slots against PCI slots. It was it was a complete He's trying to. make a sexual reference but it didn't. work. No, no, I wasn't at all. Genuinely. See, the problem is you see. I wish he was. I. wish he was. I No, genuinely. But I mean like it just. wasn't. >> of tech words that are very sexual. though. I've never even thought of them. in that way. Put the floppy disk in. Wow. Okay, I would go with a stiffy but.

Hard drive. Hard drive. Hard drive, yes, yes. >> all kinds of stuff Yes, there are. So, so when I think of that world, right? There was a community that we would we. would form as nerds where we you know, the bullies beat us up, the. it was just not the cool space to be in, right? Then money comes into it. It becomes money. It becomes the force. that changes the world. And then what we forget is. this is a like a an entire generation of.

nerds who were bullied, who were always. on the outside and now society has just. told them that they're the coolest. people but they didn't sort of like I. don't think they've ever been the. coolest. I think you're going to I think. they have money. They Society likes. money. Yes, but that's what I mean. But. that's what I mean. And it without the. money they would remain uncool. And the. power, yeah. Right, exactly. And so, and. even now the way like for example that. dinner they all had it was embarrassing. to them, you know? The dinner at the. White House? Yeah, it was I was like, "You're the richest people in the world. and you have to suck this guy's, you.

know, whatever." PCI slots. Yes, PCI. It was really quite something to see. It's like, "What's the point of being. the richest people in the world if this. is what you have to do? Aren't you. exempt from that?" Um but they're not. And so, they I don't think they look. very cool. I thought they looked kind of. like toadies. Pathetic toadies. But. that's just Do you think maybe that's. the side effect of being bullied. as a young person and Not all of them. >> were. >> want to be with a cool guy. Doesn't talk. Mark Cuban's pretty cool. He's pretty. cool. He's always been cool, I think, for example. Mark Cuban.

>> Was he like tech tech nerd in that way? >> a tech nerd, yeah. Yeah, he's just a. different kind, you know. I think. I mean Mark Zuckerberg's kind of. classic, but actually he was pretty. popular in high school from what I. understand. He was not bullied and um it. just depends. I think that, you know, we. it's cuz it's formed by Hollywood like. Revenge of the Nerds and those and all. those movies. And I think, you know, as. tech became so important to all our. lives they we began to recognize the. importance of these characters in. making us understanding and inventing.

it. But back in the day Edison was a. hero. All those people, all those. inventors, Franklin, they were all. heroes. So, I think we've always loved. the inventor. I think that's not a. a new thing. But you're right, there. were these images of like Bill Gates, for example, sort of was the. quintessential nerd, right? But that. image is, you know, when you when you. talk about I love that you say the word. inventors. Cuz I. I watch every single. um. Apple event. >> Mhm. They just had one, yeah.

>> Every WWDC, every new launch, every I. mean, you know, I watch the Pixel. events, I watch the Google this, I watch. the I watch them all. Mhm. And I don't. know if I'm the only one, but I feel. like over the past few years I felt like. it's less a club of inventors now. Oh, yeah. Then marketers. Yeah, it feels. more like it's marketing and extraction. It doesn't feel Like when you say these. things, Edison, I go, "Yeah, but look at. what Edison was trying to do.". >> Mhm. You know? Graham Bell, look at. Graham Bell was trying Look at Tesla, the man was trying to do.

>> None of these people were trying to. think of a way for you to get your. like your your food 15 minutes faster. than you were getting it before. Right. >> That's not an invention in my opinion, you know? >> because at one point in. in some of it was inventions, absolutely. And Steve Jobs sort of. personified that, although he wasn't a. technical person. He was just He was. good at marketing and he was good at. visionary being visionary of what it. should be. And he had enough technical. expertise to to spur inventors to make.

what he what his vision was. Um but one. at at one point during the internet age. there there was it got so. I guess [ __ ] up that they were someone. came to me with like um. digital dry-cleaning service. I was. like, "This is not innovation. This is. just. >> What do you What do you mean a digital. dry. >> You just ordered on an app. That's all. It was just an app and it was still dry. cleaning. I'm like, "Are you going to. dry clean it digitally?" Or because that. would be cool. But one of the things. that I used to someone said to me at the. time and I agree with it was at one. point Silicon Valley became.

um really smart people doing really. small things. And that's what it felt. like. Really small people. >> so interesting, I have to say, and I. spent a lot of time with him, was. because, you know, he was talking about. cars. He was talking about space. He was. talking about Neuralink. He was talking. about tunneling and Hyperloop. Whatever. you think of those things and whether. they work or not, they were big ideas. And so, smart people working on small. ideas is really quite. deflating in a lot of ways. And I think. a lot of it is that, right? And Steve.

Jobs for. was was perfect at making you see the. vision of where it was going because you. know, this phone, even though it's they. just released the skinny one. You I. don't know if you saw it. It's got that. bump on it. I saw it last night. >> The bump is weird. It's massive. It's. also It's also lopsided. That's my. problem. Like maybe Maybe it's just a. >> Steve Jobs would like that. I have to. say. >> if you're going to make a phone that has. a mega bump on the back, at least make. make more bump. >> Because then when I put the phone down. it's flat. Now you have a phone that's. like one corner and then it wobbles and.

it does a thing. So, why am I resting my. phone on the camera? I I mean, maybe. it's just me, but I'm like. >> They have They have a case for it, but. then it's not thin again. Correct. I said this to this Apple. executive and they're like, "God, you're. annoying, Steve.". >> I yeah I had to sit sit through this. lecture last night. >> Oh, yeah. It is. So, he's 100% right. >> No, but the wobble. The wobble. And not. just the wobble. You make the thinnest. phone Yeah. and then you put a fat. battery on it and you tell me, "Look, we. can put a battery." But then if I've got. to put a fat battery on a thin phone, you've got me back to the fat phone.

>> me back this. >> Okay, but the gains of the fat back and. the wobble. No, it's no gains. >> gains. So, you don't get more battery. >> instead of three. >> Uh-huh. I have less battery life than I. would have on the other one. Less. battery with a bump on it. It also. charges slower. Right. >> Right? So, it charges slower. I've got. fewer speaker grills. >> Yes, that's right. Come on. >> I'm not loving this new one, I have to. say. I I You know what I do love? The. new AirPods. Now, that's pretty That's. Those things are cool. Real-time. translation. Well, AirPods should be If. it was a business by itself, it would be. a massive business, right? And everyone.

made fun of them at the time they came. out, if you remember. Everyone was like, "You look ridiculous." I'm like, "No, no, these are fantastic." One of the. things that to me will happen is someday. we will have video cameras in them or. some sort of camera and it will start. talk It will be your instead of wearing. glasses like which some people are. working on Face Meta has some. Apple. obviously did Vision Pro, but um. these are where I think there's going to. be visuals and then it's going to talk. to you but like in that movie Her. It'll. be talking to you and like, "Okay, up.

ahead is that person. Go to the left. Go. here." And it will You'll constantly be. in interacting with it some sort of AI. that will speak to you all day long. >> What's What's the first tech that made. you feel like you were living in the. future? I I always love asking this to. like tech lovers. >> I'm a little older. The browser. The. browser. The The Mosaic The Mosaic. browser. Really? >> Yes, because Look, you had. >> So, not the computer. That was like. okay-ish. >> They hadn't really innovated. I mean, there was that There were a couple um. not Dells. What was the company? It's. gone now. They had some small ones that.

were pretty cool, right? >> Actually, that's not true. There was a. There was something called um General. Magic that created the General Magic. Magic device and it was an iPhone before. there was an iPhone. >> Like how long are we talking now? >> a lot of the people who worked on iPhone. later. This was. 80s, essentially. >> No way. >> Can't remember. Remember Apple had. Newton, if you remember, a long time. ago. >> know about General Magic. >> Similar. General Magic was before that. and a lot of the people moved to the. Newton project. They kept trying to do. it, right? And the guy Tony Fadell that.

ended up being critical to the. um the iPod worked at General Magic. Like they were always trying to figure. out this sort of And And it actually. goes back to Star Trek. That's what they. were trying to make. >> That little device that. >> That's right. The communicator. The. communicator, right? And so, they were. always trying to create that and that. was what that became. But General Magic. had And I have one. I have an original. General Magic. Was a block. It just was too big and it. had pictures of mail with on a desk with.

a mail with a mailbox and stuff like. that. And you would I You'd have a. stylus and it was just It wasn't the. right form factor, but it was. directionally the correct version. And. if you look at that, you're like you. could see the straight line into this. Um same thing with the glasses and. stuff. I have one of the original Google. Glasses, which Those massive. >> No, they weren't big, actually. Google. Glass was quite skinny and then it had. this weird little thing, this little. square. Yes, they were not massive. Vision Pro. is massive. Is Is still big. All and so.

are most of the meta ones, um Oculus and. everything else. Google Glass was small and it sat on. your It sat on Like it was very thin and. then had a little thing. It just wasn't. very functional. It didn't do much, right? And it would sit there. And one. of the problems with it when when it. first was introduced, I went to My. ex-wife worked for Google. So, I went to. a Christmas party and they'd just. introduced Google Glass. But nobody had. them but the Google people. And so, everyone on the boat, she was in that. division, had the Google Glass on.

On a boat. It was such a great scene and. they wouldn't let me have it. They're. like, "You can't have it." I'm like, "Thank you.". Um and they. And they're wearing it and they were. trying to have it to get it to go You. go, "Hello Google." or You made it You. said something like, "Hello Google." to. it. >> Yeah. And then it would. >> was like the Yeah, that was They have an. action word, right? And they were all. going. "Hello Google." and they were turning on. each other's Google Glass with the same. thing. And at Google parties they used. to have really good food at all the time.

and they'd have like a mountain of. shrimp, like really good shrimp. Like. And I sat there eating shrimp like, "This is the worst thing.". >> Listening to "Hello Google. Hello. Google.". >> "This is dystopia, but the shrimp is. delicious." And And they didn't realize. nobody would. interact like this. Or And even Sergey. who wore them around all the time, he's. one of the founders, Sergey Brin. He'd wear them everywhere and they were. so weird looking and unattractive and he. was wearing them at a Vanity Fair Oscar. party and he came up and he goes, "Nobody's talking to me." And I'm like,

"Well, you're wearing those [ __ ]. Google Glasses. Celebrities don't want a. picture at a party where they're smoking. pot. Like, are you kidding me? Like, what do you Take them off.". >> walking around with a camera. >> Yeah. Yes, exactly. And he goes He goes, "Oh, how What should I say?" I said, "Say I'm a billionaire. It'll work with. these people. Like, take off the. glasses. Say I'm a billionaire.". But what happened with Google Glass and. I think eventually it'll get better was. um and I did say this to him and others. at Google at the time. I said, "Congratulations, you've rendered. Remember they went to Victoria's Secret. and they all had them on? Do you.

remember that?". >> No, I don't remember the situation. >> a introduce it, they did a Victoria's. Secret event and all the supermodels had. them on. >> Oh, wow. And so, I was there and they. go, "What do you think?" I go, "You've. just made supermodels unfuckable. How. good for you.". Well done, boys. >> That is technology. It was. I'm like, "Whoa.". >> But I think everything she just. explained is what I find wrong with. technology. It almost feels like. it makes you ignore the giant plate of. shrimp in front of you. >> Right. Well, Yeah, you've never What? Like what tech. No, but I I I like I like asking you you.

these things cuz you've always been my. one of my non-techy friends. So, you'll. ask me questions and there's some tech. that you'll adopt and then there's some. tech that you won't. >> Yes. Like what Which tech do you think. is actually meaningful? Do you Do you like even care? I think. after the radio we should have stopped. Jesus Eugene, we pushed it to television now that all. right. I'm I'm sold on television. >> THE BUTTER CHURN. YOU KNOW WHAT I actually like? You might. like this, the Aura. Although now. they're working with the defense. department, so [ __ ] that. But.

this ring is really it's the beginning. of the idea of monitoring your health a. little bit. I find this to be really. interesting and it gives you I used to. call a lot of these things unwearables. because they were it was like your. steps. What does that What does that. tell you about your health? Does it tell. you anything? Oh, I did a 10,000 steps. Well, what does that mean? What should. you do next? What I always wanted was a. device either on your wrist or here in. your ear. You need to donut and we go, "Oh, that was a mistake." It would talk. to you and say, "What you need to do is.

get up right now and walk a thousand. steps and I'll tell you when you're. done." Or "What you need to do now is go. get a kefir immediately and drink that. down.". >> probiotics. >> probiotics going. But I would like. something that has actionable. information. And this one for especially. for sleep really does. Gives you data that you can actually pay. attention to and they have to start to. interpret it, but that's the kind of. thing you're hoping for. Wait, that. would be useful. This is the Aura, right? >> good for you and it makes you look. committed. Yes, it does. Yeah, it's kind. of too big though cuz only got guys made.

this. Let me just say it needs to be. this big because of all the You've got. all the sensors on the inside. Eventually it won't. What space for a. wedding ring? I I never I know I'm. married. I don't wear it. Don't say. anything. I don't like rings. I don't like rings. They make me feel. like I'm captive. I just I do this with a ring. The ring itself on your finger makes you. feel like. >> like I don't like rings. Some some people like jewelry in. general. It's hard to No, just even even. like around your around your neck as. well sometimes.

You've never had a conversation My wife. would like me. She would like me. She. would. >> She would like me to wear it more and I. try. I try my best. >> How many times has this topic come up. because Many times. Thank you for. bringing it up and now she'll listen to. this and we'll have another one. Let me. just say something. Let me give you a. little tip for reporting. Ask a man how his wife is sometime. I. always start interviews with some weird. personal question. Ask a man how their. wife is. Many men do this. No. They start they fidget with the. ring. They fidget and take it off. Like. they don't they it's really interesting.

Just try it. It's just like it's burning. them from the ring or something. And they're always like, "Great. Great. Great. Everything's great." And I'm. like, "Okay. I wonder if you I wonder if. you could get all the data. and see if there's any correlation. between who took the ring off and how. their relationship turned out. >> Cuz maybe that's like a a tell that. someone's giving you like, "How's your. relationship?" And if they pull the ring. off and then answer you and then put it. back on. Yep. And maybe you can tell us. cuz you've never had it on. Cuz they. know when you put it on like Well, that's it. I'm not subject to that.

I'm only I'm only wearing cuz I'm. traveling. I usually take it off in the. morning. But. >> So where do you keep the one that the. that was blessed for this union? >> Blessed. Yes, cuz the Catholic Church. loves a gay marriage. Um. It's in a box. It's in a nice pretty. box. It's a pretty box. And she wears it. on her. >> Africa. But. your country. From your country. Wait, I'm I'm I'm fascinated by this. because earlier on I was telling you. that I'm actually entertaining the. concept. >> Yeah. of getting married.

>> Okay, I I I have What? I know you just said that to me. >> You just told me. Wow. You see You. didn't know? Sorry. >> Remember when we were together you said. maybe ask your friends. Yeah. What did I. say? No. No. No. No. No. The one thing. about us the friends but no. He said, "Have you fix him up?" Let me explain. what the weather what came from. And The. what came from me finding out on a. podcast that we are sharing here from. Karishhma Yeah. that you are considering. getting married. >> I'm a famous reporter, so that's clear.

what he Also, I found out that you were. a weird nerd who was brushing up against. nothing cool your whole life. You knew. this about me. Okay. >> You've always known this about me. Trevor, I didn't. >> He didn't know the shame that you had. I. didn't know the shame that you carried. Yes. There was no shame. I was just. enjoying myself. Let me tell let me tell you something. Let me tell you how much fun it was. Let. me tell you something. Few things were more fun. Friday nights. I'd be in my room. with my PC. With my PC. I'd have my PC.

And we had this deal in South Africa at. the time where the the the the the. service provider would give you internet. that like the the cost of dialing up. wouldn't go beyond a certain price from. 7:00 p.m. on Friday night until 7:00. a.m. on Monday. Right? And the so the maximum price was. something like if. $1 essentially which was Otherwise you. could pay like a thousand dollars if you. weren't careful. Right? So I'd wait. Friday night would come. and I'd be sitting there with my with my.

PC. I had my whole rig. I'd plugged in car speakers that I would. find from wrecked cars. And I would I created my own surround. sound in my room. Right? So connected. them all. Had my Winamp going. I'd wait for 7:00 p.m. I'd wait for 7:00 p.m. and then 7:00. p.m. would come. Click that modem. Get. going. I'd get in. And then my mom taught me how to make a. rum and raisin whiskey concoction.

Oh, wow. So I'd sit at home with a 5 L. I don't know what that is. A gallon. maybe. I don't know how to convert these. things. But of of ice cream. mixed with whiskey. Oh. And then I would. dip my cup in and I would sip it and. then I would chat to strangers from all. over the world. Good times. >> That was a normal Friday night for you. The best Friday night. Do you see any shame? 100%. What? We're. ashamed for you. WE'RE ASHAMED OF YOU.

BUT I WAS REALLY ASKING CARA ABOUT THIS. I was like. I really I really really want to take. that step. But my question to her was, is it better. to do it with someone that you've known. for a long time or get fixed up? >> No, I got fixed up on a blind date. My. wife and I were Who fixed you up? Lady. Pole Green and her wife Candy Fight. What did they What did they see in you. and her that they were. >> broken up with someone and I had I had. not ever been single my entire life. I. went out with men too many many when I.

was in high school and stuff. And I just. hadn't been alone like by myself and I. said, "I'm going to be alone for a. year." I did one of those things. >> Yeah. And she Candy called me and she. texted me and said, "Can I fix you up. with someone? I have two people.". I have two different She was kind of a. matchmaker personality and she said, "I'll I'll. I said and I was I actually was going to. a funeral and I was like, "Well, how. about after the funeral?". Very practical. Right. Exactly. I was. wearing all I was wearing I think I was. wearing this. I might intend on a death. I know.

Exactly. And. and I said "Okay, but I'm not going out. with anyone for a year. I'm not. I'm. going to like I literally just got out.". >> were you in now? A month. A month. One month in. Still strong. A month and. a half maybe. Um and and I I said, "Okay, I'll go. I'll start with one.". And we we they had a little dinner party. kind of thing in Brooklyn and I went and. I think we got married. We had a baby a. year later. Wow. You never got to number.

two? Never got to We did meet I met. number two later. Very nice. It was a. very excellent choice too. Wow. So was. there a moment when you met number two. where you like, "This could have been". or was it no like you know No, I picked. the right I got the right one. She was. she picked the right one actually. She. picked the right one. Cuz that was the. first option that you had for you. She. that she picked. I picked the right one. Yes, and I really really trusted her and. I think you should take advice from your. friends. If they really care about you, they think about it. I got you, boo. I got used to drink rum and raisin. Used.

Yeah. So you have someone for him? Used. to. Do you? I can I can figure it out. I got you. I got you. I got you. I only trust Trevor to pick. the menu. Okay. All right. I would never. I would never. I've got his Thank you, Cara. I have his. fully full best interest. This is a guy. who puts me through talking about the. hump on the iPhone for hours and hours. >> what? He's right about that. That's very. upsetting. It's what I'm talking about. >> I was like, "These people it's the most. it's a multi-trillion dollar company. They didn't notice the. I said that to the executive." So you.

know what my theory is? It was a pretty. big executive at this morning show. premiere and he goes, "What do you. think?" I'm like, "What's with the. bump?" And he goes, He didn't notice the bump? All your. multi-billion dollars? >> Can I tell you my theory? What? My. genuine theory and I could be wrong on. this. I feel like the technology that's being. made today, not all of it, but a lot of. it is being made by people who are not. using it using it. So they're sort of. like making theoretically, but they're. not using. >> I think they had Samsung envy. You know,

cuz a lot some of these. >> thin phone? The thin phone. I think they. wanted a thin phone. Cara, there's no. way someone was using that and was like, "This is right." Well, it was. interesting cuz I when I saw it I. thought Steve Jobs would vomit on this. phone. Like he would not like it. He he. he would not have let it go like that. No way. No way. One of the things was. really interesting many years ago when I. you know, I was partners with Walt. Mossberg for years on our conference our. big code conference where we had Steve. Jobs and Bill Gates together and stuff. like that. And we had Zuckerberg and. Elon and everyone else. But.

Walt brought him the Zune. Remember the. Zune? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. It was like, "Who picked brown poop. color?" But it was a it was a pretty. good device. >> It was a good device. Didn't look good. at all. The color and it was shaped wrong. It. had a wrong the iPod had the golden. means. measurements. The ratio, right? >> which was why you found it attractive. and you don't know why you did, but it. was very nice to hold and it's because. uh Jobs used the golden means ratio. which is interesting. Um.

but the Zune was square. Remember it was. it was hard to hold and it. >> an ugly device. >> ugly device. So Walt handed Jobs the He. goes, "Let me see it." And he's like, "I'm not supposed to show it to him.". And Jobs' like, "Let me see the [ __ ]. thing." Cuz he wasn't able to get it, right? And so, he put it in Jobs' hands, and Jobs went like this. Like this. Cuz cuz he was such a drama queen. But I. think it actually repelled him. He was. like, "Why do they make so many ugly. things? Like, why can't they make". Because a lot of them,

including at at Apple is the only one. that really did do things that were. beautiful, were actually beautiful and. beautiful to hold. And even Google, when. they were trying to make when they made. their phone, um and I would my my. ex-wife. was a Google executive, too. And they. had Remember they had the stacks? You. had to go Yes. Yeah. And I was on her I. was using my phone, but she had to use. the Android. And I I was looking for an. address, and I go, "Where is" She goes, "Well, it's in the stacks." I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is the stacks?" And she's. like, "The stacks, the stacks." And.

she's a tech person. She goes, "Obviously, the stacks." I was like, "Nobody normal knows what a stack is.". And with iPhone, you could pick it A. child could pick it up and use it. >> Yeah, it it's the most intuitive device. ever created. >> cuz it's simple. And one thing Steve. Jobs used to say, he said it to me at. least, was it's a really. um. it's very complex to make things simple, but it's very simple to make things. complex. Like And so, a lot of people in. Silicon Valley make things complex on. purpose cuz it it's easy for them, but. not They're not thinking like a consumer.

would use it. >> This conversation proves one thing to. me. That I should never let him choose. anything for me. Because me and. Kara was busy giving me advice about how. option one became so great, and you. lured her in with your stacks. >> Stacks. Yes. No. And your ramen raisin. breasts. But Wait. Do you know what. actually No. I think Well, let's help. him. Let's help him. I can I tell you. something that that actually we we're. getting to which is which is which is. important. Okay. That's That's why I. like this triumvirate that we've created.

here. I think Kara is giving us an insight. into the tech industry. >> Right. that to me sounds like there are. there too many like. let's just say cables that have that. have been disconnected from people. Because what you just said is what I. think is missing in dating apps and. whatever. I think a lot of dating apps have a very. simplistic idea of how dating and how. relationships are formed. A person finds. another person attractive, they link up, therefore it works.

But it's like, "No, no, no, no, no." If. you think of what a working relationship. is, everyone who's told me a story about. being set up, I'm obviously Some people. have bad stories. But when you even. think of. matchmakers in India, a great matchmaker in India will tell. you, "My job is not to. just set you up. My job is to understand. you, and then understand you, and figure. out why you would or wouldn't work. beyond what you may know or not know. about yourself." And whenever I hear. people talk about someone setting them.

up, like a friend of theirs or somebody, they go, "My It's You said the line.". And I I promise you everyone says it. They go, "They were like a matchmaker. type.". There's a skill that they possess Right. Correct. Not everybody has it. Exactly. That enables them to see why you connect. with you. But these apps don't. necessarily do that. >> do that eventually. Eventually, there. will be. >> Some Some of the algorithms do have. things that are helpful. I mean, we're. on our way to that. And I think Complete. on the way, yes. It'll read your facial. expressions. You know, they're doing job.

interviews like that. They can They can. watch the facial expressions and. >> know what they mean mean yet. >> Well, actually, you know, interestingly, I just I'm finishing up a documentary. about future health, right? Right now, cuz it's my next book, talking about. There's amazing things happening around. tech and health and figuring out things. And one of the ones is this company in. Boston, um and it's from Mass Brigham. Young, which is a big hospital there. It's doing testing there. And it's. showing incredible promise. It's called. FaceAge. And you look at Doctors, when. there's a cancer patient, looks at looks.

at a cancer patient and decides whether. they need more aggressive or less. aggressive treatment. And they actually. Among the many things they look at is. the face. They're like, do they look too. much And a lot of doctors are doing it. without actual science. They're just. like, "I have a feeling this person can. take it more." And it's And they use. age. It's They don't even realize. they're doing it. They're They're. They're assessing people. They're You. know, they they use the word assessment. But they just look Well, not at a. glance. They're taking They're They're. bringing lots of data in to figure it. out. But there's this thing called.

FaceAge, and the AI looks at a face, and. it will You will have a chronological. age and a biological age. Your biological age could be a lot lower. than your chronological age. And that. means you should have more aggressive. cancer treatment. >> Cuz you can take it. >> Cuz you can take it, but doctors don't. always see it, cuz they're looking at. wrinkles, they're looking at all kinds. of things, or maybe someone's a little. creakier, but but this AI has been. accurate in telling doctors which. patients can take.

treatment more aggressively. And this. one woman I met, she was 82 years old. She looked older. She was wearing a wig. She looked older. She She was 82. Her face age was 72. And. they gave her more aggressive treatment. She's cancer-free now. It's incredible. Like these day these AI will be able to. to have a lot of data that we don't. quite understand the decision-making. It'll be part of a tool that doctors. use. It can't be the decision-maker, but. it'll be a tool that doctors use going. forward. So, someone will be AI will be. able to fix you up eventually.

Not today. No, I'm not kidding. Here's. the thing. Let me ask you a question. What do you want What do you What are. you looking for? Make a list. That's what I did. >> Kara, you know what I love about you? You You care. I care. I care. No one No. one has ever asked me this. I mean, some. people wear cardigans and claim to be my. friend. And then Wow. Wow. This is I'm having a. bad time. This is This is awkward. What was What was on your list, though? >> What do you What's on your list? >> What was on my list? What was on your. list? Likes children, cuz I had two. kids. Um.

and. um. Well, yes. Yes, that was That That Yeah, okay, good. Excellent. We have the same. list now. Um. flexible. Like And I As in. dexterity? Physically is great, but No. No. No, more like flexible isn't isn't like. rigid as a person. Rigid as a person. Uh. sense of humor. Take. Uh. Okay with change. I'm a very. change-oriented person. Like I I I just. sat there and wrote it down. And then. >> Change as in like you change the way you.

think, the way you dress. >> with change. Like. whatever. Just things happen, right? I. had a whole list. I I'd have to find it, but Feel free. I will send it to you. But you have to make a list of what's. most important to you. And stack rank. it. Stack rank it. Stack rank it. And then No. Well, go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. Go ahead. What's the most. important Okay, good. Should that be at. the top? And you can say looks, too. You. can be like, "I like a good-looking.

lady." Like whatever. Well, to you, a good-looking lady to. you. What's number one? Privacy. Oh, that's number one? Yes. Interesting. Have you heard of the new iPhone? But more than anything, family-oriented. >> Okay. There you go. Yeah. So, look for. that. And don't And And if they're not. they don't If it's not on the list, you. got to cut it loose. We're going to continue this. conversation right after this short.

break. Is it possible sometimes that you would. not want to date someone cuz you. wouldn't think they fit with your. friendship circle? And if that happens, who who goes? Do you dump the person? >> Oh, I I think your friend circle's more. important. I think they have to be able. to. >> Yes, I agree. I think they are. Your. friends are way more important to you. >> after study shows you live longer if you. have a friendship circle. That is very. true, Eugene. If you keep your friends.

close, you will live longer. Wait. Wait. Wait. So, was it more helpful for you. that she was recommended by a friend? Yeah, I think. >> you got to keep her and the friendships. Yeah, you don't want your friends at. cross purposes. That sucks. Nobody likes it. Look, it was. I had the funny Bad boyfriends are. always the worst thing for a group of. friends. If a friend has a bad. boyfriend, you're like, "Oh, the bad. boyfriend.". And you know who that is, right? It is always funny when someone has a. partner that everyone else is like, "Are they coming with them?".

I had I had a friend who had someone we. don't like. And they they And it was very obviously. And everyone pretend like doesn't say. anything, and they're like, "You You. don't like this person." I said, "I. don't. I really don't." And they were. like, "Well, it's you know, kind of you. have to." And I'm like, and I named. another friend of mine. I'm like, "I've. never met her [ __ ] husband. I never. hope to. Like, I don't have to be. friends with your partner." I said, "If. her husband fell on me, I wouldn't know. it was her husband. So, why do I I met you for the first time.

today, and we got on like a house on. fire. You are a likeable person. >> a likeable person. >> You're an interesting person. You're an. interested person. >> interested person. What is it about that. guy? I don't I don't know. I just didn't I. didn't It was a It was a woman. I didn't. like her. I just didn't She was mean. >> didn't feel her vibe. >> No, I didn't like them. You can not like. people. I I like this. Yeah. One day The. other. I said to someone I They're like I I. said, "I can't I'm not friends." It was. a work thing, and they were like, "Uh W-. Why are you leaving?" And I said, "I. don't want to talk to you anymore.".

They were like, "What?" They They said, "Honestly, why are you leaving?" I'm. like, "Honestly? I'm done talking to. you. I said, "I'm done talking to you.". And they were like, "What?" And I go, "I. I wish I could say it any nicer, but. that's really the reason I can't.". >> And then what does the opposite of that. look like? You're walking into this. apartment in Brooklyn. >> I just want to talk to you. I like I. like hanging out with you. Yeah. Did you. know it was her when you walked into the. room? >> because. dating people are the TV for couples. Like, they're like, "Oh, let's see what. happens here." You know what I mean? We're entertainment. And we did So, we.

met before at a bar. So, I we We both. understood we would be be entertainment. for the evening. >> And everyone was watching you. That's. right. And so before we met before, so. we made sure that we got we had a. initial like for each other, yeah. Was she also in tech? No, not at all. Was that refreshing? Uh, she was in journalism, so that was. >> Was that him being tech again? >> I never did No, you know why? Because. Oh, refreshing, nicely done. No, my ex. my ex-wife was is a techie. She was the.

CTO of America. Of under Obama. Wow. >> I know. She worked at Google. She's. She's CTO of America, yeah. No, but that. would No, the reason I'm asking is cuz I. was going like, is it more refreshing to. be with somebody who's in your world or. somebody So like I I I like hanging out. with Eugene partly because he doesn't. care about half of those things that I'm. talking about. >> Right. Right. >> And but then I sometimes go like, it is. fun to be with somebody where. >> you two should have a little. relationship. I wish. I'm not his type. I'm not his type. All the things that he. said. Yeah. All the things that he said.

Family oriented. Do you hang out with Bill Maher? Sorry. You're a Bill Maher character. >> Friends first, that's me. No, but but like. Yeah, I just mean like you know, the. refreshing world. Cuz you. How much. How many years have you worked in tech? 20. 30 30. 30 years? >> Yeah. And I would I would say you know. everyone who has done anything in tech. You know what I mean? >> the. You know, I didn't know Edison, but in. >> I mean this is But um.

I would assume you didn't know Edison. I. didn't know the Hewlett-Packard people. I met them later when they were older. But from Jobs and Gates on, yes. >> But that's what I mean. That's That is. the tech we know in. >> there were people before that. There. were all these companies that were like. >> I'm I'm assuming you've lived forever. That's what I'm saying. >> right. Yes, so from Gates and Jobs on. >> Cool. So, how much of this. do you now see as your career and how. much of it do you see as your passion? Cuz I When I'm When I listen to you. speak, yeah, okay, okay, cool. All. right, cool. >> I love it. I I wouldn't you know, one of. the reason my book was called Burn Book,

A Love Story. A tech a tech love story. I love tech. I'm just pissed at what. they did to it. Like I'm pissed that. they had to take all the juicy bits for. themselves rather than. >> do you mean by that? Well, look look, the internet was. was built by the US government and it. was paid for by the US taxpayer, but who. made all the money? A small group of. largely white men, right? That's what. happened there, right? In fact, almost. to a person. And I don't understand why everybody. doesn't benefit from the fruits of this.

amazing technology except for a small. group of people. And I don't understand. why. a small group of people gets to decide. everything for the rest of us. Why. didn't they ever have any regulation? Why wasn't there any input by citizens. on so much of the stuff around privacy? Why do they design things that are so. damaging to people? Why can't they not. do that? And also and why don't they. lean into the good parts and mitigate. the bad parts? Why do they not care. about the bad parts and don't feel it's. their responsibility? So that's what it.

I love the the amazing things tech can. do for people bringing people I have a. vision of. The way I put it in the book was. I have a vision of Star Trek and we live. in Star Wars. Damn. You know, and Star Trek is an. amazing vision of the future about. diversity in its best light in. in people understanding each other where. villains are complex. Cooperation. Cooperation, problems too and everything else. Common. cause, cool outfits. Um and Star Wars is.

a very dark and dystopian vision about. power and evil ultimately succeeding. They never win. Yeah, never. The good. people never win. You know, at the end. >> a constant slog. It's a constant slog. against the abuse of technology by. powerful people. And so I am furious at. them for. taking something that could bring people. together. and not caring enough to take out the. parts that bring people apart, right? Like anti-Semitism or whatever. And then.

hiding behind one of the most. astonishing amendments in history, the. free speech, right? Pretending they're. all about free speech when they're not. interested They're interested in their. free speech and nobody else's, right? So. When you when you've seen them over. over the years, I wonder how much you've. seen them change because I I. I remember. having a conversation once with a. politician and it was interesting to see. how much they didn't recognize. themselves Mhm. in the person that they.

were. So I I met a politician and then. 10 years later I was in an interview. with them and I asked them. about something that they had said 10. years ago, but I didn't say it was them. I just said, "This is an idea, what do. you think?" And they're like, "I think. that's unrealistic and you got to. understand that that's not how the real. world works." And I was like, "You said. that." Mhm. And they're like, "I don't. know if I said that. I" I was like, "No, no, you said that.". >> Sounds like Obama, but go ahead. But it's But there's so many politicians. >> that conversation with Obama. Really? Oh, yeah, about um encryption. And what was the conversation? He was. like, "We need to open up the.

No, it was encryption. It was about. Yeah, I think it was about something. where he had said one thing and then he. he later said something else and he. goes, "Well, if you knew what I knew. now." And I was like, "Oh, stop." But. that's But that's what I wonder with. like the tech guys as well is. I look, maybe I'm taking them at face. value. When I see a lot of them launch an idea. and maybe not today cuz today the money. is really in the forefront. Everything. is like, "Can it scale? Will it be a. unicorn? What are the numbers?". >> dinner with Trump? Why Tim Cook am I. giving Trump a golden statue?

>> I know he is dying inside. I know it. I. don't care. He can deny it all he wants. I know he is. But my question is like, what have they. lost that they had in the beginning? Cuz. in the beginning it starts as a. >> Hope. You think it's hope? Well, it's. interesting cuz you know, I've known. someone like Sam Altman, I knew him when. he was 19. He was really interesting as. a 19-year-old when he did Loopt, which. was a failure, his company. It was a. location services. I don't even remember. what it did, but it was a location. pinger kind of thing. And you know, parts of it remain. I think people are.

often the way they are when I met them. early or the way they are now just with. more money and then money has its. deleterious effects. Too much money or. too much You know, they have a lot of. people licking them up and down and. agreeing with them violently about every. like, "Oh, right, good job." And I think. what happens is they become. Do you remember in Succession, as you. watch that show, which I think that was. a fantastic show depicting wealth and. power, what happens and the deleterious. effects of it,

their worlds kept getting smaller and. smaller. In their homes, they went from. their tight little cashmere homes to. their cars to their planes to their. boats and they never encountered people, right? They They less and less. The last. scene of Succession I thought. reminds me of tech people a lot. Think about that last scene besides the. guy who died, Logan Roy. Everybody the the the oldest son, he was. alone by himself by the water alone with. with a with the security guy.

The couple uh. was together, Tom and Shiv. They were in. a insulated car, expensive car by. themselves. You know what I mean? They. were insulated. They went from the hotel. room down through the kitchen through. the thing. There was only one person who was with. people, real people. It was the other son. He's in a bar. And he's He's the only one that's happy. in that And I thought it said a lot. So. these people, they go from their cars to.

their yachts to their homes to Like Mark. Zuckerberg has a compound in Palo Alto. That means nobody gets in, nobody gets. out. And so if you're like that and. you're constantly being told you're. smart and every idea is right, you never. get a feedback of, "You [ __ ] [ __ ]. what are you kidding?" And you either. bring it into your life. Like Mark Cuban. enjoys feedback. He will listen. He's doing great. He's a great guy. because he will listen to people who. disagree with him. And he'll he'll seek. out people. He was just with Tucker. Carlson. I wrote, "I'm like, what the.

fuck?" He goes, "I got to listen to. him." Like he's open to hearing from. lots of different people. And then. there's people like Zuckerberg who has a. compound and then he bought half of. Hawaii and then he bought the. It's to insulate yourself from everyone. else. And if you start off as kind of a. a bit of a broken person or a jerk, like. Jeff Bezos was always a jerk in my. memory. Like he was a jerk to start with. and he's a bigger jerk now. Um when you. have money and the deleterious effects. of wealth, they become worse. It It It.

It emphasizes the way you were the way. you initially Amplifies it. >> It amplifies it. >> Just makes you more of you. Look at. Elon. Look at Elon. Like he was so. interesting and. he's not. >> What you've explained about people being. insulated from the truth once they. acquire a certain amount of power is. like Are you a big fan of The Sopranos? I love The Sopranos, of course. Remember. the episode where Tony Blundetto came. out of prison? And then he was hanging out with Tony. and the rest of the goons. Then he made. the joke about, "Boy, you're fat.".

And then Tony got offended, called him. to the side and said, "I know we joke. around, but I'm the boss now." Oh, right. Cuz he's changed. He can't be. told that. Yes, they're like that. It's. And it depends on the person. Like. you know, when I run into some people, they and I'll say, "What are you talking. about?" And they're like, "Oh, my people. agree with me." I'm like, "Oh, really? They work for you and they're dependent. on you." They You know, just I mean, the. board of Tesla's a really good example. They cannot have been running this thing. correctly given what's happened and then.

want to give them a trillion-dollar pay. package. So far, the record in the recent years. has been pretty problematic, right? Not. just not just the. the lack of sales, but everything, the. drug use, the you know, the crazy. political posturing. Any other company, they would have been like, "You need to. move along in that job of yours. You. need to like We need to get someone else. to figure out how to keep this company. going." You know, I'm always torn with. those types of stories because I go. I know this is this is a crazy alt take.

in that in that way. >> Go ahead. But I sometimes wonder if some. of these guys are screwed over by the. fact that now they're in the public eye. in a different way. Mhm. Cuz we don't we. don't really know what many of the great. inventors in life thought. They didn't. have Twitter, they didn't have Facebook. They like we maybe they're writing, but. I'm saying it wasn't a front-facing. >> Oh no, Edison was quite a quite a jerk. and also was. abusive of tabloids at the time. Oh. damn. He put he put all kinds of nasty. [ __ ] out about Tesla. Oh yeah, when they.

were having the beef. Yeah. He was. trying to undermine his technology and. use yeah. He used reporters of the day. They. So it's the same old same old now. Yeah, he used to he he Tesla's a very sad. story. What an inventor, but he got he. got mowed under. He got turfed by Edison. cuz Edison knew how to use and. manipulate the press. But what I'm. saying is we didn't own the we we. weren't there. But do you think it was. as easy to know who Edison was was for. the people. >> Oh yes, no, he was very famous.

Oh yeah, very famous. Very he was a he. was you know, look, someone else like. Charles Lindbergh, very famous. The most. famous person. of the day of turned out to be a you. know, a virulent anti-Semite, a lover of. Hitler, but. yeah, no, some of the people had. worldwide celebrity. Like some people. had full their like the bad side of. their. They didn't know the bad side. >> No, that's what I mean. Sorry, sorry, that's what I'm trying to say is I'm. going. Back in the day, it was a lot easier to. obscure who you were. and put out who you want people to think.

you are. That that I think that's what I. mean and I'm going like. >> No, it is. >> I'm saying like now someone like Elon. gets exposed way more than he would if. he was in like a 1920s. >> shut the [ __ ] up. Like at some point. you're like stop. Put put down. Like I I. used to when after we stopped getting. along, I used to put stuff out cuz I. knew he read my stuff at like 2:00 in. the morning cuz I knew he was up to That. is hilarious. And I would I put up. Someone Kanye West put up the fat. picture of him with Ari Emanuel. Remember that one? Yeah, yeah. And Kanye.

West is the one that did that and it was. like, oh man, what happened? And I. I I never I and I'm not on Twitter. anymore even though I have 1.5 million. followers. And I and he wrote something really. awful as always and then I was like, oh. man, I just did that. I just said, oh. man, and. 5 seconds later Elon blocked me. It was. so funny. It's so small. It's so small. >> so easy. I was like, oh my god, you're a. billionaire. If I was a. Let me tell Remember when he was at. Mar-a-Lago Which time? for New Year's.

Eve. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, here's what. I thought to myself. Here's what I. thought to myself. I'm the richest man. in the world and I'm [ __ ] at. Mar-a-Lago with all these stiffs. Like. and this guy dancing to YMCA. Like if. I'm the richest person on You know where. I am? I just bought France and I've. given everybody free wine and we're all. You know what I mean? We need to give Kara Swisher all the. money in the world. This sounds like a. fun world. Buy a country, give everybody the wine. You know what's funny about that story. is Do you remember like I don't know why. this some moments that are seared into.

my brain. Do you remember when Trump was. like basically saying Elon's annoying. and he's sick of him being around? So. there was But this is like in public. This is not a secret thing. Not on the. side. No, no, no, you can see this. they were talking to him about Elon and. his work and whatever and Trump was. like, yeah, you know, Elon very smart. He's doing big things, doing big big. things, very smart. He's he's been. around always here, always here. Sometimes I wonder when he's going to. go, but he doesn't go. He's here every. day. I go, don't you have to run a. company or something, but he stays.

Yeah, yeah, nice. Well done. Good old. Elon, good old Elon. Get the [ __ ] out of. here. You know, get the [ __ ] out of here. He. he NEEDED THE MONEY. HE NEEDED THE. MONEY. I was like for Trump to be like, who is. this loser who I can't get rid of? He's. like, you've done your job. You gave me. the money. Help me win the election. Move on now. You know, when when he. first started showing up there like and. he was cuz after the election they're. like, oh he'll go. I'm like, oh he's not. going to go. He has nowhere to go. You. called it. Oh, oh, The fact that he's. going to stay? Oh, I thought he was.

going to stay. And so I ran into a Trump. person pretty high up and. he goes, oh, you're so mean about Elon. I go, he's [ __ ] nuts. You'll see. I. said he's has a drug problem as has been. well reported by New York Times. He's. got Well, he doesn't consider it a. problem. Whatever. He likes ketamine and. stuff like that. He talks about He likes. the ketamine. And I said and he's really. irritating. Like he really is. Just so. you know, he and he's become more. irritating now and you can see it. And. and they're like, oh, you're just. jealous. We have Musk. I'm like, okay,

good luck. 4 weeks later this person I ran into. they're like, oh my god. And I was like, I told you. And they're. like, you were right. He won't leave. And I was like, he's not even I said. He. goes, when we move up to White House, he'll leave. I go, he won't leave. And. he didn't. Remember? He was always He. didn't go He's like, no, he in the White. House we can keep him out. I'm like, you. can't keep him out. mascot like next to the desk. Wait, so how could they not keep him out. of the White House? I mean Trump said.

it. He could have easily just blocked. him. Trump is like Tony Soprano. He. likes people hanging around. Yeah. And. also remember like Trump if you go back. in his life, I think it was his dad who. taught him a lesson. He said, always. stay close to the richest, most powerful. people that you can. So that Trump faces that dichotomy. I. also think he likes a crew cuz he likes. He likes yeah, but he likes cool and I. think he has he actually has an acute. sense of what cool is, but sometimes. he's stuck with the uncool, but it's. attached to the rich or the powerful and. he's like, ah, I've got to hang out. here. He just said it recently. He said. he's got to come back.

Who said it? Elon? Elon, yeah. Trump. did. Now I thought he shouldn't have said. that. He won't come back now. He won't. come back. No, because because also they. were when they were saying, you know, we. got Elon. I go, oh, it's going to break. up bad. I said it publicly. I was like, this is going to be like there can be. only one. It's Highlander time here. everybody and it's going to be Trump. FYI. Yeah, yeah. They're making it again.

Oh, what a time. >> that? Christopher Lambert Lamb Lambert. Lambert. Lambert, I think, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. And of course Sean Connery. was in it. No, they're making it again. I forget who the star is. Who's in it? >> Oh, yeah. What? You think so? Oh, yeah. It's a good cast. Okay, yeah, but the. cast for me doesn't sell. >> Well, the first one's great. It's like. Road House, right? You just don't trust. that it'll. >> Road House, the original Road House is. the finest movie in the land. I don't. know, Kara. I feel like I feel like. movies movies are in the same world that.

tech is right now. They're they're. recopying themselves. And also nothing. feel Not nothing, nothing. There's a few. things that pop out. Don't get me wrong. But for the most part, if I look at the. the average. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Weapons, sinners. It's funny. Yesterday we were talking. about those exact same movies. Yeah, but I I just feel like. it's less adventurous, it's less edgy, it's less interesting, it's less. imaginative, it's less you know. >> Yes, it's limited. But I think there. there's always been sequels. There's. always I think we always say that like. donuts not as delicious as it used to be.

and it kind of is. It wasn't very good. before. Like we have memories that maybe. cuz you know, what did you What was your. formative movie? My formative movie. >> Star Wars. No, the Matrix. Matrix, okay. Yeah, not nothing has shaped. how I perceive and not like, is it real? Is it not real? Not like that. Not like, ah, red pill, blue. No, actually that. stuff I think is dumb in the way people. interpret it to be honest with you. It it was first of all, the computer. world. Yeah, all so amazing. Yeah, the.

way But Great story. That's why you. liked it. It was not because it was the. tech. It was. >> No, but I but I did love the aspects of. tech and remember for me, I was this. little kid watching this guy who's like. a loser in his world. Which guy? And. then you go Not you, Eugene. No, no, I. meant this person. You meant not you. Not you. So I was watching Keanu Reeves. Okay. This like sort of loser who's in. his bedroom the whole time and he's. doing And I was like, man, there's a. world where you could. >> PCI slot. Yeah, you could you could. become cuz remember he's like in there.

and they come and they come and buy the. hyperloop tips. I could be a rapper. Except for being a white woman. >> know, for me it was there was that. ELEMENT OF IT. I CAN'T SING. DO YOU KNOW MY SONS HAVE REALLY GOOD I'M. GOING TO TELL YOU THIS. MY sons have. really good musical taste and I would. had they were using my Spotify at one. point and just making playlists and. stuff like that and they I think the guy.

who was head of Spotify was like, you. have great musical taste. I'm like, what. are you talking about? He goes and they. said someone and I was like, who's that? Like cuz I didn't know my sons were. making. >> making your playlist. They were making. your playlist. So I look cool. Nice. So. you love the Matrix? Yeah, but it was it. was everything. It was like everything. everything everything. But the most. important thing Okay, this is why I. think it's formative. And this is I I. have this theory and you know I I say. this to you. I. I apologize for saying it to you again, Eugene. I'll say it to you. I've never. said it to you. I think we take for granted how powerful.

the stories we are told can be and what. they can do to us because they shape how. we then perceive the world and what we. think is or isn't possible. Do you know. what I'm saying? And so that's what like the Matrix. forced me to think of the world. differently. And what the world is. really like about the layers of it. Who's in? Who's not in? Who are you? Who. do you pretend to be? What's real? What's not real? What's You know, and. for me one of the most powerful scenes. in the Matrix, the one that like really. really got me. was the scene of Agent Smith with.

Morpheus. Mhm. Where Morpheus is sitting. in the chair and he's restrained and. Agent Smith comes up to him, you know, and he's like wiping. You know when he kicks the the other. agents out of the room Mhm. and then. he's like, get out, get out. And then he. talks to him and he goes and he says. like, you want to know what it is about. this place? It's the smell. If there is. and he goes. >> They hated being there. Yeah, but what I. loved was how like. to what you said earlier, complicated. villains. >> Yes, that's right. He was a cop. I was. like, imagine this guy hates that he's.

there. He hates that he has to be there. He hates that he has to and and it was. one of the first. >> National Guard right now. Yeah, he was. >> the No, they just released a report and. they're like all the They were like, we. hate being there. We hate, we're. embarrassed. There you go. Yeah, it was. an internal report that just got out. >> Wow. The guards themsel- I feel I never. mean to them. There you go. >> want to be there. >> Yeah. But there you go. And what it did. for me was. it opened my eyes to the possibility. that the. prison guard could also sometimes hate.

being in the prison. Right, right, yeah. >> know what I mean? Absolutely, yeah. And. and then it's like the way I thought of. all of it, he wanted to be free and it. would and that's why it shaped it. Like. what was your What was your What was. your one? >> Terminator. I love Terminator. >> The first one, all of them. I like But. the first Was the first one the. formative one or. >> First one was the formative one. >> Okay. What was it about Terminator? >> the maker, right? Same uh no. >> No, no, no, no. Matrix and Terminator. Cameron and Wachowskis No, the. Wachowskis I'm saying the creator. No, no, no. No, no, Cameron and Wachowskis. I think the person that wrote Cameron.

wrote Terminator. >> Terminator, yeah, yeah. And then. Wachowskis is the Wachowskis. No, the. Wachowskis wrote the Matrix. Similar, probably influenced. I bet they were. influenced by Terminator. >> Um I just love that movie. It was so I. love time travel. I love time travel. movies. I love time travel books. I. think I would love to be able to time. travel. And. And I always was attracted Ray Bradbury. stories, you know. I even like Time Cop. with Jean-Claude Van Damme. I like I'll. watch any time cop. >> Time Cop was what a movie. What a deep. cut. >> fantastic movie. And so um.

so it was uh. Anyway, I loved it. And I just the idea. of can you change time was always really. interesting to me. And just the. Schwarzenegger was amazing. The visuals. were amazing. The ideas, they were. [ __ ] up ideas. They're really [ __ ]. up ideas of what the future is. And what. was really interesting was the idea that. it wasn't the machines that are the. problem. It was people, right? People. not understanding the power of the. machines. And so I just it was always.

resonated. And of course Gladiator, who. doesn't love Gladiator, but that's just. the finest movie in the land, too. Another Well, Road House. Road House is. my favorite movie. Formative movie? We. just watched it again. I do the annual. Road House watching. And not the Jake. Gyllenhaal pathetic version. Damn. Original. Shots fired. Original. Formative movie? It has to be. Norton. and Pitt, Fight Club. Oh, I like that. That's a nice one. It almost feels like. it made you see the world in a different. way through the characters that played.

in that world. For example, Meat Loaf. Right. >> He wasn't a rock star there. You were. just a guy with huge man boobs. >> Mhm. And then for a long time in the. movie you're caught up thinking. Tyler Durden and the other guy are the. same are two different people. Right. >> And all along he was having a. conversation with himself. >> Spoiler alert, you're supposed to say. that. You're supposed to Well, that's. all right, it's old. It's too late. It's. too late. >> if you were in Fight Club? You know what. happened to him if he was in Fight Club? I'd go. then blood would just seep through my.

teeth. Oh, wow. Okay, wow. Okay. So okay, you know what actually this So. this is why I'm. you know, some people think it's a stretch, but. you did bring it up with Star Trek. >> Mhm. People take for granted how much the. technology that is made today or the. technology that has been made over the. past few years. >> Yeah. was made by people who were. inspired to make it by the movies they. were watching as kids. >> That's right. >> Like they watched something and they. went, could we make. >> impacted by sci-fi. Exactly.

>> Deeply. Like we've had so many. discussions about sci-fi and this stuff. The stuff he is interested in, it's. crazy. Like many of them are. >> And that's that's what So this is why I. hop on about like art. Yes. >> Not in the highfalutin sense. I just go. you know, people be like, who cares if. movies become terrible? >> movies. They're stories, too. They're books. >> whatever it is, whatever the stuff. that's getting out there. All of it. >> That stuff tells a kid Mhm. what to. imagine and what to think about. That. kid grows up into a man or a woman who.

is now going to try and create a certain. type of future. >> Right. based on the imagination that. they have inherited. >> Right. And then if they don't have a. good enough imagination, like I think of. all the movies and TV shows now that. make the best thing you can be a. billionaire. Mhm. Rich, rich, money, money, rich, rich, money, money. No no. creativity raised just like money, money, rich, rich, power, power, rich, rich, money, money, money. And then I. go, what does that mean for like the. generation that grows up watching that? If they aspire to just be. >> Well, maybe they're not getting the art. from there. There's a lot of television. shows that are really powerful,

>> look, I hope so, yeah. >> I mean, like listen, what I watched was. like Gilligan's Island and you know, Love American Style, Love Boat. So and. somehow I made it through. Like I. sometimes I think we overestimate the. the negative effects of some of this. stuff. >> the negative. I just I don't I don't. underestimate the inspirational effects. >> But look, go back and look at H.G. Wells. Read that sometime. That guy. clocked Leonardo da Vinci clocked a lot. of stuff, right? I mean, if you go look at his drawings, you're. like, how did he know that?

>> Right? How did he get it? >> time travelers. Maybe so. Where would. you go in time if you could travel? Definitely forwards. >> You can't go forwards. What What do you. mean? I have to go backwards? >> the rule. I'm now the. >> Thank you. You can't go All right, so I. have to go backwards. >> Backwards. Okay, let me think. This is a difficult Okay, let's establish a few a few rules. If I'm going backwards in time, am I. going Am I going to meet me? How does. your time travel work? Am I Do I exist. in the back? >> yourself, you blow up. Like do I exist.

in the back? No, you do. I do in your. Okay. No, no, these are our rules. It's. fine. Wait, but I need to But I'm going. to get involved soon, so I need to. >> Let's just go say you can't. >> No, that's why I'm trying to establish. the rules. Okay, so in your rules, I do. exist there. Okay. Then that changes. quite a few things. You thief. I knew. this was going to happen. He added a. complication. >> a letter and say buy Apple. Go ahead. You see, I wouldn't You see, honestly. can I tell you, I spend an an inordinate. amount of time thinking of time travel.

And I worry about it because for me at. least is I go I don't know what the. butterfly effect would be of changing. any one aspect of my life. Mhm. And I. work So you you you say. >> wouldn't matter cuz you're not coming. back. No. Into the present. So whatever change. happens is what is. Yes, but my point is. I don't know how that turns out. So to. your point, let's say I tell myself at a. young age, buy Apple stock. First of all, I'll go what is Apple? What is stock? What is buying? What is. money? Mhm. Like Don't go too far back.

No, but no, no, but even at that age, I. didn't I remember Yo, let me tell you. how crazy I remember when Alibaba was. listing. >> Mhm. It was it had its IPO. I was in. South Africa. For some reason I'd been. deep in reading about Alibaba as a tech. company. Mhm. And then I went to like a. bunch of. people in banking and stuff and I was. like, can I can I get in on the IPO? Mhm. And people were like, what are you. talking about? >> Mhm. I said there's a Alibaba IPO. Mhm. And they're like, Alibaba? Mhm. What are. you talking So you didn't get in? No, and I I didn't Now we we have like now. you can buy, you know, derivative.

shares, stocks. You can do different. things that you could back then you. could back then. But what I mean is I don't know I go. back and and then what happen? You know. what I might do? I might use my time. travel powers to go back. like like a few hours. Oh, hours. Oh, nice. How How about that? Maybe 5. minutes from now. Yeah, okay. You want. to go 5 minutes back? Yes, because he. added the complication of am I there? Am. I not? Yeah. What is money? What is my. life? >> if I could time travel. I would go back. to the moment when I met you. Aw, Trevor. That's the moment I'd go back.

to. Aw, thank you. That's the moment I. would go back to. Thank you so much. And. then I would turn around and not walk. into that building, Eugene. Cuz I'd be. like, this person is going to roast me. for the rest of my life. >> Aw, that's good. No, you wouldn't. You'd. be so smart. That's what I would go back. to. You'd never No, I would never. I. would never erase that. I would. literally go back and meet Jesus. Wow. Would he know he's Jesus at the. time? I don't know. I need to find out. >> knew he was Jesus. No, but there was. times where people have been saying he. didn't know he was No, but he just knew. he was Jesus. He was rolling with his. uncle going to other places So you would.

go what age Jesus would you want to go. back to meet? Right as he started. Starting being. Jesus? >> You could have been then one of the wise. men, cuz that's basically what they did. They didn't let men be that. We don't. know that they let men or not men. >> You're right, the Gnostic Gospels. I got. it, right? Okay. Also, we don't even. know what Wait, wait, wait. They don't. let who? Women. Cuz cuz here's the. thing, there's two things. >> Wasn't Mary Magdalene Yeah, but no, no. No, she was not a [ __ ] She was not a. She was not That was men writing the. history. >> There's two things we also have to. forget though. And one of the big ones. is we forget how many times in the Bible. it was possible to just like.

cover yourself in a certain way and. people like, oh, you're a man or you're. a woman. Right. So you could have you. could have snuck in. Gospels show that. there were a lot of women involved. It's. just the ones that survived are the ones. who were using as a history survived. So. I would I would want to meet Jesus. Most probably one of the more. significant people. Formative years or. when he's flipping tables at the temple? Right when the historical I'm talking. about the historical Jesus. The like who. was this person? And to meet that. person. Oh, you don't mean Bible Jesus. Well, is Bible Jesus historical? I want. to see. Like what happened? I'd like to.

see it. I'd like to see what happened. And what age are you thinking? Whatever. 20 What age was he? 20? 20. 20, right? 20s, 5, 24, 23. Yes, cuz Would you tell. Jesus that he's going to get crucified? No. Damn. No. Would you like to meet. confident Jesus or Confident Jesus. It. was always confident. >> Jesus? Cuz there was Jesus where he's. like, no, no, there was Jesus where he. was doubting Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the thing? Yeah. Oh, like. you could go to the garden and go run. Run. Like get out.

Get out. Then he turns to Joseph AND. GOES, YOU'RE NOT MY DAD. THAT GUY'S NOT. YOUR FRIEND. I would actually like go to. history in lots of places. Like Caesar, don't go TO WORK TODAY. JUST LET ME GO TO CLEOPATRA, DON'T GET. IN THE CARPET. Get on that chariot and head out of. Rome. Going back and like spoiling every. moment from history. I know, like. >> Lincoln, don't go to the theater. Don't. go to the theater tonight. You just go go to Abraham Lincoln.

spoil the end of the of the play. Just. be like, oh, in the end of the play they. find out that the woman had another. family. Oh, why did you do that? I don't. want to watch it anymore. Yes. >> But then nobody could do the other than. that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? You know, they they couldn't do that. joke. We lose a great joke. >> We lose a great joke. That would be. Wouldn't that be funny to wander through. history and be like. Leave. Don't go to the theater. It would be so. cool to do I mean, if we don't think about what it would. cause, it would be really fun to just go. in there. >> Amelia Earhart, don't get on that plane. >> Yeah. Don't get on. >> Just go like.

>> Just don't. What do women think about. Amelia Earhart? Do they think. >> think? We got together last week. WE LIKE HER. >> YOU KNOW MORE WOMEN than me. >> Um I don't know. I don't think people. think of Amelia Earhart that much. >> We think about They probably think she's. really interesting. >> about her all the time. This is Eugene's. Amelia Earhart in Eugene's Roman Empire. >> She's a little more complex than people, you know, they have this vision of her, but actually she had a lot of. some not so great things about her. I. mean, she was complex. She was very. complex. >> She was a human being. What What would.

you Where would you go in time? Shoo, I would. I would go hang out with David Chase. when he was still thinking about making. Oh, wow. Okay. The Sopranos. I would. just be his friend. I would just. contribute because I love. cuz I love The Sopranos so much I even. watched how they were doing the casting. And who would have gotten which role. before which role and he was at the. precipice of making some of the best. television. >> I love The Sopranos. I love The.

Sopranos. You don't You don't worry that. you would throw it off by being there. knowing what it's going to be. >> What do I care? It's me time traveling here. Now I must. care about everyone's feelings here. But. then there's no Sopranos is what I'm. saying. So you don't care about. >> be no Sopranos. It's like Back to the. Future. Here you go, Biff. Or no, or. whatever. Cuz every time after I land in. LaGuardia go. Yeah, you do. And then that's why. immigration always pulls him aside. >> Some every now and then I go I go back. in time and I'd say yes to those job. offers at tech companies. Like. >> What? Yeah, why did you never get into.

tech? >> There were so many of them, so it must. have been. >> I might say yes cuz then I would have a. billions billions of dollars right now. and then I would be able to be like. really. >> But getting France drunk. >> Like, you know. >> actually let's talk a little bit about. this. Like you you were you were in tech. >> Yeah. when tech was still like it was. really small. >> the wild wild west. >> Yeah, no, I was offered a job at AOL in. the early days. I was offered a job at. Facebook in the very early days, at. Google in the very early days, at Amazon. in the very early days. Do you know how.

many billions you've just told us? >> and I kind of would be like interesting. Like it would be a really it would be a. it would be a different world. Like I. would have used it politically for sure. >> But let's pretend we're 10 years from. now and we're going back in time. Which. decisions would you make now to get us. wealthy? To get us wealthy? >> Yeah. What What would we buy now? I'm. going to do it again. I'm going to [ __ ]. up again, but um I'd probably do some. something in AI in an area I knew about. like what It's going to be It'll be hard. It'll be hard to know which one's going. to win though, right? You never know.

which one's going to win. >> Yes, we don't know until it happens. >> seven or eight Googles before there was. Google, right? There was Excite, there. was there was there was a bunch of them. that were all search engines. They just. didn't work I'm blanking on all the. names. I covered them all, but there. were a lot like Google before there was. Google. I'm still. There was MySpace before there was. Facebook. There was MySpace. >> Yeah, yeah, but I'm Before that there. was another one and I'm blanking on that. name, but there was there was a bunch of. them. Yeah, but I want to know why like.

you love tech. >> Right. >> love tech. And you kept say Do you know why you. said no? Well, you know, at one point I. think it was Ted Leonsis who who is it. He's now a billionaire and he he owns a. bunch of teams and stuff and he sent. used to send me the amount of money I. would have had had I taken his job. Damn, he's trolling you. Damn. >> But he doesn't do that so much anymore, but um. I think I I at one point I said to one. of them I think it might have been at. Amazon. They wanted an editor job. They. had an editor job free. And I said, why.

would I want to do that? I work for the. Washington Post. Something like that. I. think I I liked what I did. And I you. know, at some point. >> That was an Amazon job, I think. >> That is crazy irony. What a loop. >> What a Why would I want this job at. Amazon? I work at the Washington Post. And then Amazon goes and buys the. Washington Post. >> Well, Jeff does. It's almost like Jeff. Bezos put that. >> I could have bought the I still could. have bought the Washington. >> Then all you hear is doom doom. I think I was just I I think there is a. point where there is a number where more.

money doesn't matter. It really does. It. doesn't make you any happier, right? Unless you want to buy France and then. buy everybody a got bought lots of wine. and then you do need that money. But. there is actually and there's study. after study about this. There's a number. where people are. >> also seen it though. You. like you've been on the inside seeing. these people become some of the richest. men in the world and still be very. unhappy. >> on my hand I can count the people who. are happy, who I consider Cuban would be. one of them. Um. that are really truly happy. What do you.

find the other people show you that. you you you you deem unhappy? What What. is it What is it that they. >> insecure. They are constantly aggrieved. There's a lot of aggrievement among the. wealthy people. Do you notice that? >> Yeah. Zuckerberg to me is the most the. worst like. you know, everyone's always attacking. me. I'm like, oh, Trump is the same way. He's always being under He's out of. under siege. How live like that? That's. such a terrible way to live. Uh very few. are I would say really happy people. in a lot of ways. And the people that.

stop sort of being so ultra competitive. and demented are happier people, right? Um I suspect Bill Gates is a happier. person now after he did all the. philanthropy than before. I like this. You When I met you there. you looked like the kind of person who. always chooses passion and happiness. Yeah. So when you were young who Who did. you Who did you look at and go. Mhm, I love being happy. I love. >> any heroes. No. No, my dad died when I. was young and my mom's kind of complex, but um.

I would say. I I just like doing what I like to do. I. know it sounds dumb, but when when I. think about every time I have been. successful. I do things that please me, right? I. think I like doing this and I was very. formed by Steve Jobs speech that he gave. at Stanford, which I recommend to. everybody. Um He was sick and then he. was well for a little bit and then for. quite a few years and then. um then he got sick again. And one of. the things I think about was he invent.

or he was critical to inventing. the most important things when he was. sick. He really was. If you think you know, the iPhone, the i- AirPod, iPod, everything like that. And one of. the things he gave this speech at. Stanford that I read and I listen to all. the time and it basically says, you. know, remembering you're going to die. someday is the single greatest motivator. for me. When I'm doing things day after. day that I don't like, I know I have to. stop, right? And I think I I really it.

really resonated with me. When my dad. died, I was like you know what? He was. 34 years old. He just got out of the. Navy, just started to make money and he. died just like that. Now he didn't know. He didn't obviously He had three kids. He was beginning his life, really begin. you know, his life it's fine and he came. from a not a rich family. He worked his. way up by going in the Navy and. everything else. And I do I think about. that. I'm like, do I Is this the way I. want to. Jobs talked about this. Is this the way. I want to spend my day? Like with that. And so.

when I I remember when I was like. offered I think it was a one of the. Facebook people. It was Owen Van Natta. who said come to Facebook and I was like. and I happen to like him, but I was like. I don't want to be with you people all. day. Like I just don't. I just don't. want to. I don't want to be here. Wow. >> think that was what it is. And so. everything I do now, I stop doing things. when I don't want to be there anymore. And I'm it's very easy. Same thing with. having kids when I was older. I was much. older. I was like I said I would like. some kids. I'm going to do that. And so.

I think that's and I have the choice. I. have the luxury of choice that other. people don't. And that's the other. thing. Other people don't have a choice. And I and to be whiny and [ __ ] about. things when you have all these choices. seems. Yeah, but I often think. the. great responsibility that everybody has. is knowing when they have the choice. Right. >> I think a lot of people in life don't. have the choice. Mhm. And you'll be. surprised at how many people do have the. choice, but then still live like they. don't have the choice.

>> They don't. They don't. >> And if you don't know that you have the. choice and you're living like you don't. have it, I almost go you've you've. you know, you've sort of done yourself a. disservice because you have the thing. that most people don't have and you're. not using it. >> I think that's I think that's sort of. where you're in a society. I. With women it's interesting cuz a lot of. women come to me for Now a lot of media. people come to me for advice. They're. like, how did you do it? I want to do. it. And I like that they want to do it. and sometimes I'm like, maybe not you, but sometimes. Well, you can tell who's entrepreneurial. and who's not, right? And and often this.

I'll never forget this one woman came to. me and she said she was an executive, always number two. They often women are. number two a lot of these companies or. three or something, but never one, right? Men are very easy to step up to. one, very easy. And you notice that. It's very clear. And she's like. she goes, I want your advice. What. should I do? And I said. What do you What do you want to do? That's what I said. What do you want to. do? And she said, well, I've been. offered this, this and this. And I said, uh-huh. And she goes, and I'm thinking.

this. I go, I didn't ask you what you. were offered. I asked you what you want. to do. You didn't hear me what I said to. you. She goes, what's the difference? I. go, oh, it's a huge difference. Offered. is like, this man wants to marry me. This man wants to marry this. That's. what you got offered. That's not who you. want to marry Maybe you do, maybe you. don't. And I said I said the metaphor to. me is a restaurant. You go in and they. have chicken, pork, and lamb. And you want duck. Ask for the [ __ ] duck. And she was like,

"Well, what if they don't have duck?" I said, "They have duck. It's back there.". And she goes, "What if they don't have. duck?" I said, "They have [ __ ] duck.". And she goes, "What if they don't have. duck?" I said, "Then leave the. restaurant and go find the duck. restaurant." Like I don't know what to. tell you. If you want duck have [ __ ]. duck. And she's like, "What are you. talking about?" I was like, "I am a. genius." I was like. I said, "I am giving you this pearl of. [ __ ] wisdom." I was like. order the duck. Just do it. Like don't have the chicken. if you don't want the chicken. Like you. have the ability to choose. And most.

people in this world, I have to say, are. stuck in places they don't like. Whether. you're in Syria, you whether you're a. woman in. you know, Sudan. Like you don't have a. choice. Or you're poor, or you're you're. in you're in deep poverty without. education. Even in this country. Like. people don't have choices that other. people have. And to to be That's why it. drives me crazy with the Democrats. Like, "What do we do?" I'm like, "What. are you [ __ ] talking about? There's. lots of things. Let's start with a thing. instead of just wallowing in, you know, oh no, autocracy." Really? Does it have.

That has to be the choice? No, it. doesn't. Don't press anything. We've got. more What now? After this. You know what you're saying reminds me. of a conversation we had with one of our. friends in an episode here. who said, when you asked him, "Why are. you always so happy, Joe?". Then he says, "I'm hashtag winning, because you know where I come from. He. says, in Uganda, all of this is not.

here. So I get to enjoy all of this. And. I have no time to [ __ ] and moan and. complain when other people are feeling a. little bit inconvenienced." And I think. of you and and and and how you speak of. your father. You right? And and how you speak of your. father. And. And I'm like, you He's long gone now, yeah. He's dead? I think he's gone gone. gone. Long long long. Yeah. I think he had the gout going on. He was. lost forever. I think. the story that you mentioned about.

your dad, I stopped myself from being choked up a. little bit because I I No, I I lost my. dad 2 years ago. Is it a documentary being made? I lost my dad 2 years ago and there was. so many occasions that I could have gone. and spent time with him, cuz I've told. Trevor the story before. He was He was. an alcoholic, so he was really. struggling. So I never knew which guy I'm going to. get. when I go meet him. But when he passed away, I felt a. certain loss and I thought maybe if I. don't go to the funeral, I will never. feel like he's really really gone. And.

as time went on, I really really feel. like he's gone. And it influenced. how I what I think of alcohol. I'm not. really a big fan of alcohol and I try to. be as as. as and I try to be as most as present as. possible. And I looked at your family. pictures today and it spurred on that. thing that I told you, that I think this. is one one thing that I would like to. try because I'd never seen a working. version of it. I've attempted it, didn't. work. But I think with hindsight, you. get to have a bit of, you know, um. experience in it without actually living.

it. So I understand completely when you say. you don't have time to, you know, do. something that you don't like. And I. think that's a really By the way, this. thing I'm working on is about longevity. and the health span versus. lifespan and how to have a better, longer, because we spend 90% of. our medical money in the last 10 years. and it's all horrible. Even in the best. of circumstances, it's horrible. And so. why are we spending 90% here and not. over here? Like why are we Why are we.

living in a sick sick I'm not a MAGA. person, trust me. I think they're crazy. Um but why are we spending all this time. in a in the sick place and spending all. our money and resources when we there's. all these incredible breakthroughs that. we could end obesity and like cancer and. this stuff. And we spend all our time. in the worst possible situation at the. end of our lives, which I think is. terrible. Like barring accidents, barring. things that you can't avoid, right?

Earthquakes, whatever it happens to be. And so it's really I think about that. all the time. And whenever I I saw I was. at this event this morning and these. young people came because I was I. thought I was pretty good on stage. And. all these young people came up to me and. said, "That was so incredible." And I. they said, "Can you give us a piece of. advice?" I go, "You'll be dead in 100. years.". Goodbye. They're like, "Uh" and I'm like, "Think. about it." And then make make your. choice. Make your choice. You'll be. actually dead in 100 years. What is the. film going to be? Um now I'm interested. What Oh, you'll you'll have to wait and.

see. I'm not supposed to talk about it. It's embargoed. I hate embargoes. It's for CNN. Fine. Whatever. But it's actually going. to be a podcast and an event and a book. So I I really think people have to think. about. our time here. I don't know. I do. I. think about it all. It's not an obsessive thing. There's a. great app called WeCroak. Okay. It's. such a good app. WeCroak eventually. WeCroak. It's called WeCroak. And it's a. little frog, too, which is a little. thing. And let me read this to you. It's. really interesting. So it's my favorite. app that I have. It's right on the.

front. And it's about WeCroak. Five. quotes a day. In Bhutan, they say. contemplating death five times a day. brings happiness, right? And then they. have a quoted the five quotes. And this. one is from Jimi Hendrix. "I'm the one. that has to die when it's time for me to. die, so let me live my life the way I. want to." Jimi Hendrix. I just read that and I'm like, "Hm, good. good point, Jimi Hendrix." And so I read. them and then I'm like, "Okay.". And then it makes you do things. When I. was in Bhutan and we were doing that Oh, you're in Bhutan. I didn't at the time.

first I was just like, "This is a like. really not a vibe.". And then you get into it and you're. like, "Oh yeah, it's it's it's the it's. the embracing of the impermanence.". That's right. You know? And and what it. does. funny enough is I remember going on a um. a guided tour in Paris. with a fantastic tour guide. Always. shout him out. Jean-Manuel, if you're. ever in Paris, look him up. Um. and he gave this tour and one of the. main things. that I learned from that tour. was there two different kinds of people.

who get to shape the future. There are people who shape the future. knowing that they will not be a part of. it. But they know what they wish they would. have gotten to be a part of. And then. there are people who shape the future as. if they will always be there. That's. right. And the latter is often times the. worst person to shape the future because. they don't know that they'll have to let. it go. And when I think about some of these. tech guys that you're talking about. I was at endless dinner parties where. they talked about living forever.

in another thing. And I was like, "For. what?". There's more stuff going on, but that. was the original. Cryogenics was of. course the idea that you can preserve. your Right. And by the way, we're moving. into areas that's some of this You stop. Xi and Putin talking about doing organ. transplants. So their impetus is so. narcissistic and it's not about making. better lives for people on this planet. and extending life. One guy interviewed. for this thing was he wrote a fictional. book called Elixir and I for- I'm. blanking on his name, but he was.

terrific. So what if you were this the. premise of this book is pretty simple. There's a pill you can take that for. every year of your life every 5 years of. life. it only ages you 1 year. So you can be. 100 and look 20, right? Would you take it? One. And what then. ha- and then he starts to contemplate. the impact on society. Well, young. people would be up in arms because all. the old people would stay young longer. and never get out of the [ __ ] way, right? That's one, which they don't do.

now as aged as they are in Congress. Um. and then two, um what if the person who. made it would become the first the real. first trillionaire of the thing? Who. would control that? Would it should it. be an individual who's selling it to. you? And what if it was expensive enough. that only wealthy people could take it? It was such a great It's a great idea, this elixir. And the idea of elixir has. been with us forever. There's a magic, a. fountain of youth, elixir. There's. always been that theme. And so would you.

take it? What if you took it and your. kids didn't want to? They'd get older. than you. I mean, it's so mind-fucking, right? It's so interesting to think about. And. a lot of these tech people who want who. whether it's Larry Ellison, who's now. become the world's richest man today. He's just surpassed Elon. Also Elon, Sam. Altman. They're all investing in. longevity stuff because. and in some cases it's an interesting. thing. Sam Altman's stuff is about. health span extension, so you don't. waste your time. I kind of I'm I'm down.

with that. Others are like, "How can I. live. longer than other What can I do to live. to stop telomeres and centenarian cells. and all this stuff?". Other people like Jennifer are funding. people like Jennifer Doudna with CRISPR, which will remove, for example, sickle. cell anemia. They may be able They have. able to solve it now. It's just. expensive to do so because it's a single. gene that you remove via CRISPR. >> edit that gene out. Most most diseases. are multi-gene, so it's much harder. But. it costs $2 million every time they do.

this. Too much too expensive. But they can eradicate it now, which is. largely eradicated or for the most part. And so the question is who gets to have. it and when? And is there a way to do it. that's democratic and not as usual for. the world's richest people? They are all. approaching it as if I want I do I. should not die because I am this unique. individual. What if you approached it. like you were going to make the world. better for all these people? Like. everybody that people don't have to die. of obesity. They don't have to die of.

heart disease. They don't have to. of many many many cancers. It just goes. away. It's a really interesting idea. And so I. want to get rid of all the charlatans, of which there are so many. And. narcissistic charlatans, and then let's. look at what really is working, which is. it's an amazing field, you know, and. remove it. And so again, the same thing. It's a love story in the benefits of. technology, and it's also a nightmare if.

it goes another direction. Would you. take that pill? No, I wouldn't. You wouldn't? >> No. I've thought about this a lot, and I. wouldn't. No, you wouldn't. So the. reason I wouldn't take it is because. I think. one of the greatest lessons I've learned. in life. is that the value of things is often. most appreciated in their scarcity. Mhm. Absolutely. >> seen this through my friends who have. children. I've watched them appreciate time. differently. I like I I you know me. I've never said. the phrase time flies. I've never felt.

like time flies ever ever ever. But every single friend of mine who is a. parent will go, I mean, you look up and you're like, where did the time go? And I see them. yearn for the time, but they never cared. for it in the same way before. You know, and I think we take that for granted. We. we don't understand, and that's where. some people have hacked us like food. companies and stuff, but like. there is something magical about the. last chip in a bag. There really is. But you know, when. there's infinite chips. it doesn't Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't. have the same anything. There's there's.

something to a moment. Exactly. Exactly. There's just something that you lose. And I think there's a stage in in life. that you don't get to experience that's. beautiful. Like you you start slow, you speed up, and then you get slow. again. And I think there's something. beautiful in that loop. What if you. could take your brain and put it in. another robot or a cyborg or something. like that? And so that's going to.

happen. >> here's what I will say to that. I find. it. particularly interesting. that a lot of these people who are doing. this will say they have the greatest. imaginations, but then they don't. imagine the possibility that there's. something beyond what we're in now. And. not necessarily an afterlife, but just. like. what if you just locked yourself in this. forever? And what what what if. you don't even out or in? What if. there's an in? What if there's another I. don't know what is there or isn't there. >> That's a really good point. But why. would you limit yourself from possibly.

experiencing? Then you're like, oh, but. what if you just did? Yeah, well, you. won't know. Because they don't believe. there is. They don't believe there is. something. And that's but I'm saying, why would you That to me is when ideas. and imagination start to die. Yeah. You. know, one of my favorite things someone. ever said, and I hope he sticks to this, was um Jensen Huang, Nvidia CEO. I was talking to him about jobs and AI, and you know, all these things that are. going to happen. And I said to him, what. do you think about all the companies who. are firing people because they've got. AI? Yeah. And he said to me, I think.

every single one of those companies. should die. And I was like, whoa, wait, what? And he said, if you are using AI to get. rid of employees, you're a company. that's run out of out of ideas. And he said, because AI should enable. you to do more of what you were trying. to do, because now you can you can. expand it infinitely. >> all the mundane tasks, right? >> And Nvidia has shown that. They were. like, we make chips. Then they were. like, maybe we could make software, and. also maybe we could make robots, and. maybe we could make warehouses, and.

maybe we could make cars, and maybe we. could make. And maybe we could And you go like, oh, he's living that ethos. You know what I mean? They're not. There's no mass layoffs. There's no. Welcome today. Let me No, but that's. what I'm saying to you. I hope he sticks. to this. Yeah. And whether he does or doesn't, I do. believe the message is correct. >> true. It's like, why do you why is what. you're using We were just talking this. on Pivot this week. It's like, why is. what you're using AI for is to limit? Exactly. >> Why is And by the way, there are mundane. tasks people shouldn't do. Like. When's the last time you look at a map? When's the last time you churned butter?

When's the last time you You know, you. could go through all kinds of. technologies, and time saving is okay. for a lot of those. And a lot of Like a. lot of jobs are so wrote, and machines. do do them better. And so what what what. what the challenge of our society is in. the next few governments will be is. what do you do when things like we had a. drastic. Farmers were on the original. entrepreneurs, you get it, deciding what. crops to pick, whatever to do with the. weather, so much like such an.

entrepreneur to which which which uh. plow to use, what you know, did you do. have the innovative new plow? Or I. always go look at old plows. I'm. fascinated as they made the progression. and how they eased time for people and. and backbreaking work. And one of the. things that's interesting is what what. part of that do you When we went from. farming to not farming, it was the right decision, right? Because that was artisanal and done in a. small way. So what is that right now, and then what can we do to help people.

transition to the better job, right? To. Or what is the better job? Like I think. a lot about self-driving. I love EV I. love like Waymo. I've been in it. They're really fun. I was in the. original original one, the one that when. they first invented it. >> the This was 10 year 10 12 years ago. when Google had it in the parking lot. I. ran over there. I'm like, put me in this. [ __ ] thing. Let me see who I can run. over. Um because I wanted to see how. good you guys are. And I made I made No, you can't get in the car. But we do have. shrimp. The guy who started it now runs a.

company called Aurora, which is a. self-driving which is an autonomous. trucking company. He's great. He's a. great great entrepreneur. But I made him. stand in front of it. I'm like, let's. see if you're up to what you just. invented. >> Huh. And he did it. He stood in front of. it, and this car stopped. Oh, well. Um. but. I kept going, GO GO GO. UM SO. So anyway, so I love them, and I know. people will be put out of jobs. I do. I. do. But I'm thinking, for example, trucking is such a dangerous profession. for people. It's not a good profession.

It's not a good for your family. It's. not everything. I know there's a. romanticism around trucking, but it. shouldn't be done by people. It really. shouldn't. Coal mining shouldn't be done. by people. Like things like that. And. so, okay, you have the autonomous. trucks, and a lot of our nation is. pretty flat. And so they're not going to. get in accidents. They get in fewer The. problem is people, not the trucks. >> are the anomaly of the world. >> Right, exactly. And the trucks once one. truck makes a mistake, all the trucks. learn. When one person makes a mistake, nobody learns, right? That's how it.

goes. Unless we have figure something. out to get people the Matrix and the. chip in their head. Um so what was. interesting to me is I was like, okay, let's talk about the jobs thing. He. goes, here's here's the thing I'm. thinking, cuz he happens to be a very. thoughtful entrepreneur, this guy. He's. like, right now, long-haul trucking is. really dangerous. It's bad for people. physically. It's dangerous. What if all. these autonomous trucks went to the. edges of cities, and that's the only. place they they don't go into cities. anymore. And by the way, it solves a. problem. And then you get smaller trucks.

driven by people that bring it into the. cities. >> Oh, nice. You know, of course, the idea. of putting them under cities is actually. a great idea. Um but they So. or all the people that are running the. fleet, who's who's monitoring the fleet. and where it goes. But you create a. situation where the truckers then live. near where they work, rather than drive. And I was like, thank you. You just. thought of really I don't know if that's. going to work, but you could you could. sit there and start to think, okay, if. the people of. Google aren't coding anymore,

you know, or if people vibe code, you. know what vibe coding is, right? If. people are Vibe coding, Eugene, is Do. you know what vibe coding is? No, do you. know? I'm assuming you don't. That's why. I'm saying. >> figured it out today I can rotate my. Okay, so vibe So vibe coding is. um. the original coding was you had to know. the language that a computer speaks. And. there were multiple different languages, you know, Java, C++, yeah, coding. languages. And then vibe coding now is you're using. an AI to basically code on your behalf, and you're saying what you want the code.

to be and what you want the program to. do. find me a wife, and this is my. criteria. And Not just criteria, it's. the prompt. Prompt is the big word. Everything is a prompt. What is the. prompt? And everything will be created. by the It's It's a question. It's It It. is qu-. Answers are. Things progress because of questions in. this world. And so you're like, I want. an app that will make me find a wife, and here are my criteria, and here's. where I want you to search, and it will. make you the app. It will just happen. So it's vibes. Right. It's like on Star. Trek when you said, I would like a.

turkey sandwich, and then it just. appeared. That kind of stuff. But you. see that you know, when you when you go. back to the world of yes, vibe coding. and what we look for as a future. I I think what makes this businessperson. thoughtful for me is. I don't know them, but I think they. understand. the nature of work. And I think this is what most people in. business have forgotten. And the significance of it as well. >> They forget that a company is a fake. thing. They forget that Wall Street is a fake.

thing. All of these things are imagined, is what I mean. You know, to use the. correct word, it's more imagined. It's. more imagined, okay? The purpose of it. is to give people something to do, to. move value around, however we assign it, whether it's time or currency or a. product, whatever it is. But that's what. generally keeps societies moving and. happy and flowing. But once you stop them, once you create. a dam, that's when things die. You know what I. mean? That's when the the sand builds.

up. That's when But that's exactly it. And I think they don't realize this. It's funny you talk about the truck. thing. I remember talking to somebody. who was also in. autonomous trucking, and I said, what if there's a bridge? You think trucks should be autonomous. There are many people who drive trucks. for a living who are going to lose their. jobs, right? Actually, we don't have. enough truck drivers, but go ahead. >> Yeah, yeah, no, no, but I was like, there are many people who will. But I. said, what if you found a bridge in between. where the person could drive the truck. from home? Mhm.

Like you have an autonomous truck, and. they're there. >> guided by a truck driver at home. It's. very different driving a truck. And then. I saw the other day my my youngest. brother sent me a video of this. There's. some people now who work in like. quarries and stuff. >> Mine. Yes. Yeah, but it's like they're. at home and they're using like the. excavator. >> element is important in decision-making, right? And it's the same thing with. drones, it's the same thing with like at. some point there will be drones that. will operate on their own like. autonomously. Like and make autonomous. decisions. Same thing with um.

sentencing, justice. I mean. that's what's interesting. Like every. single industry will be affected. This. The thing about AI is everything what it. does is you had Google where you went. and put in the thing in the box and then. it brought you the answer, but it didn't. really bring you the answer. It brought. you lots of answers to find. And so it's. like here's a lot here's a pile of. library books, good luck. That's what. Google is. Like, you know, like oh god, there's 10 books here. Where is the. answer in these 10 books? Well, could be. here. It sort of gave you a suggestion. Maybe look at this one first.

>> lucky. Yeah, I'm feeling lucky. >> my favorite thing on a Google page. >> I'm feeling lucky. What do you I often. had the right answer. Yeah, but I was. just like what a crazy button to I'm. feeling lucky. Yeah, they were a funny. gang back then. Let me tell you. No, they were they were a weird group of. people then I have to say and they. remain the same today to this very day. Um but one of the things um that that's. interesting about that idea is with AI. is it doesn't it actually and I know. hallucinations blah blah it will get it.

right. Like the original internet if you. recall was quite ugly and stupid and. didn't work. AI will get it right at. some point because it will it will learn. and figure out. It could provide you with with things. It could really give you great answers. and and and cut the time it requires you. to get it and get rid of things that. were lots of steps along the way. Like. making butter. Yeah. Like or whatever. There's an there's a better way to do. it. And so I think we have to approach. it like it's a better way to do it and.

now what can people do? What is there. what What's the human element. in deciding these? And I think what I. get really worried about is people who. really not resist it. I was with a bunch. of journalists are the most risk-averse. people on the planet. I was with a group. people and I was talking about um AI. coming up with headlines, right? Just. for writing headlines. Yeah. They're. very good at it. They can do they can. spit out 100 headlines in 5 seconds and. it takes some creaky old guy to come up. with two terrible ideas in 3 hours,

right? Well, we got to keep him in the. job. I'm like, but he's bad at it. Like. why is he doing that job? Yeah, right. And and they were like, we. can't have people do that. I said, but. it's headlines. Like why? Why do people. have to do that? Well, cuz people have. to decide. I said, well, then spit out. 100 headlines and then a person picks. the one. But let the person have the final. decision-making. The person doesn't have. to be out of the loop. But the person also doesn't have to be. doing the grunt labor. >> Right. Like why not? They And by the way.

AI comes up with I would say 79 bad. ideas. but 21 are pretty [ __ ] good. Like. they are. Like I have to say. You're. like, not bad. >> Yeah. And and they were like, well, that's the screw people. Like that's. like, why are you the hill you're dying. on is headlines when I'm telling you you. need to focus on making products that. people want and figure out what the. creativity part is. Headlines are not. the create it's the grunt work. It's the. input work. It's the stuff that. computers should do, right? Why are.

people. inputting? Why? I don't even understand. it. And it's really interesting the. resistance is, you know, in media as you. know, I mean what's happening now at. Mirror Old. Play well, that's another. story. I'd like to get into that. I'm happy to, but. what in the actual [ __ ]. Yeah, anyway. But like for example, I was just with. the person who's running MS now, which I. don't particularly like the name, but. whatever. I don't really care what they call it.

They can call it Phyllis. I don't really. care, but Phyllis is a great name for a. network. I know. I know, right? It. doesn't matter. If it's good, it's good. Do you see what happened on Phyllis? Phyllis, yeah. I like that actually. Barbara. Barbara. Are you the guy from Phyllis? Yeah. Excuse me, ma'am. Did I see you Did I. see you on Phyllis the other day? I. actually like that. Oh, Barbara. Barbara. is a nice one. But Phyllis is really. that's like a cool. I can't hear the It is Phyllis. Phyllis. Diller. What? Syphilis? Syphilis. Oh, good. Okay, wow. You went there. The Is. that the full.

Why are you, Jean? Huh? Syphilis? As you were. No, please, Cara. Okay, so. back to So one of the things I was. talking it's called Verson, which I'm. like also causes rash in your you know, causes vaginal rash. Also solves your vaginal rash problem. And they and this executive was like, that's not funny. I go, no, that's. funny. That's funny. Come on. The name. Verson. You walked right into it by. calling the stupid thing Verson. Um so uh. so anyways, that that AI came up with. that name. And um so we the as half the.

people there it's really interesting are. like, oh no. Like oh no. And I was like, no, this is a golden [ __ ]. opportunity. Be creative and make things. people want. And if you don't, you get. to leave. Like if you can't And to me. the the people I really like are the. ones that are like, okay, this is a. we're now freed of all this other [ __ ]. Now we can make cool stuff. Same thing. at you know, it's so many of these. places. They now have the opportunity. um I have a rule when I make companies. I've made everything I've made has been.

pretty successful very successful, actually. And and someone was like, what's your secret sauce for making. things? And I go I make things people. want. And I sell them. And they're like, what? And I sit and I. ask myself this one question when I'm. making something and it's whether I know. it's right or not. Did anyone ever ask. for this? Like a lot of people make a. lot of corporations make Did anyone ever. ask like Washington Post did, let's let. sources make comments in the stories. that our reporters write. They think.

it's brilliant. This one guy. But did. anyone ever ask for this? Did anyone. ever [ __ ] I said, did anyone ever. [ __ ] ask for this? They're like, no, but it's cool. I'm like, but it's not. I'm like, who wants that? Like who? Except the sources who get to like clap. back at the reporters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they wanted it, but does that make. you more money? Like Does it even make. the product better? Right. Does it make. it Does it serve your reader more? Does. it inform them? Does it create Yeah. >> Right. Right, exactly. And so often they. try to make they don't think about what. people want. And that's what I think.

about that all the time. So I think. they'll do great if they make things. people want and they keep the costs in. line. This has been amazing. Yeah. I love this. Glad I met you. >> I'm curious. Do I miss TV? >> Yeah. I don't think I ever liked TV. >> Oh, really? Interesting. >> No, like. the the thing. >> No, no, what I mean is this is like. I I hope I'm not getting too didactic. with this answer, but it's like Please. do. The. So even like let's say podcast. Mhm. I. always laugh at that. I go, what does that mean? Mhm. If there's a. camera, if there's a then is it a.

podcast? Is it not a. >> It's a livecast. Yeah, people love. giving. things names. It's a TV movie. Mhm. It's. a movie. Right. No, it's a TV movie. It's a movie. You're just watching it on TV. Yeah. All. of these things. So for me, what I. genuinely the thing that I miss the the. only thing that I miss Yeah. is engaging. with the human beings that I engaged. with. So I loved working on problems and. ideas with a team. I loved the jokes. that we would tell each other in the. writer's room. I loved the meetings that. we would have. I loved meeting with the.

audience and having them ask questions. That's all that I miss. Genuinely and my. friends I think can account for this. If. you told me. that none of that actually ended up on. TV and I was just like being scammed, I. would go like, man, I still had a great. time. Yeah. And I I that's how I think. of it for my life is I go I wish to be. partaking in the activity of creativity. with the people that I love and then. I'll I'll I'll enjoy that and I'll come. out on the other side with with an. experience. But the actual TV side of it.

Yeah. doesn't really matter either. That's the thing that that's the thing. that a lot of people in media don't get. I used to say like one of the things. they were. they were always like, oh, if this goes. and that goes. I'm like, no, if you make. great stuff, it'll sell every single. [ __ ] time. And and I think they get. stuck into the system more than anything. rather than what they're actually. making. And so process always takes. over. And one of the things that. I've just recently started doing a. series of podcasts a media that works. I'm so sick of the doom scrolling and oh.

media. I all I talk to is people who are. And some of them work like the woman. who's running Wired. She's kicking ass. because she's making great stuff. She. decided to double down on Dodge. She has. really interesting stories. She's part. of a corporation. I'm not just doing. entrepreneurs. She's she subscriptions. are up like 100%. Why? Cuz she's making. things people want. So I interviewed. her, Oliver Darcy who does media. writing. He left CNN to do it. I. interviewed him. There's a guy at the. post that I helped figure out how to. leave who does videos on TikTok. Like.

all kinds of people are approaching it. from different ways. And so I and using. technology to do so. And I think it's. really important to keep at heart all. this important is what you're making. Like what's the thing you're saying or. doing or writing or what's the story. you're telling? That doesn't change. And. technology doesn't make it any better. Like it doesn't. It just doesn't. People. do. 100%. No question. I love this. Thank you so much. >> All right. Thank you. This is fun. >> Yes, his wedding obviously. Ah.

When you fix him up. >> Walking down the aisle. Here comes. Eugene Cozza. You need a Sopranos fan obviously. You need a Sopranos fan obviously. That's that's that should be a top on. your Or even better, you need somebody. who's never watched the Sopranos cuz. that'll be the greatest joy. Yeah. There's nothing better than introducing. somebody No, introducing someone to. No, they'll they they can't not like it. What if they don't? >> But that's how you'll know that they. love you. No, that's how I I it honestly.

is that's where I feel like you'll. you'll explore something. They'll. they'll be like through your eyes, why. do you love it so much? Yeah. Or they'll. hate it and you'll still be a great. couple. >> Actually, you can you can get along. Like my wife is like, I'd love to live. in Brooklyn. I said I'd rather poke my. eye with a dry stick. A WHOLE ENTIRE EYE? THE ENTIRE EYE. Like totally. If I have to go in a co-op, I'll kill. myself. I'm like, give me. give me the $4 apple and leave me the. [ __ ] I don't want to talk. I don't want.

to work for it. I would like. but I'm not a Burning Man gal, so do you. go to Burning Man? No, I've never been. I want to go though. Why? Cuz I want to. experience everything in life. It. doesn't matter. Okay. I've I've been in. dirty before. Yeah, I can you know why? >> No, I have been in dirty before. Tell us. more. I've even told you this. It's like. I I want to experience You see what's. happening now? What what He's costing me. now into a dirty You like I told you. about my dirty dick. Okay, but what No, what what. what is dirty? What is dirty? What is the dirtiest thing about Burning. Burning Man? Dirt? Like the actual dirt? Actual dirt.

>> Cara, have you been to Hammanskraal? Have you been to Hammanskraal? No, what. is that? Exactly, Cara. Isn't this Isn't. this your country again? Isn't this your country? >> No, like what I mean is like the thing. that the thing Yeah, thank you, Eugene. The thing that people I like I loved. going to the homelands and like when. someone goes Burning Man, I'm like this. is not Oh, that's true. Yeah, it's kind. of a wimpy thing. Here's why I can't go to Burning Man. because a lot of tech guys go there and. they're going to slip me like ayahuasca. and then I'm going to end up in some. trailer in Reno married to a man.

Something will happen. I like that the. end of the bed story was married to a. man. I will end up there will be pictures. There will be pictures. They will I will. not I do not when I go to these. companies now, I'm like this. I'm like, don't touch me. >> Just cover everything. >> Cover everything. No, man. I would You. know, they do that with our presidents. when I was interviewing Obama. They put. a thing on the Yeah, no, they don't even. >> And I went to touch it and the Secret. Service lost their [ __ ] mind. They. wouldn't even when I when you interview. like presidents and that they they don't. even let You have the water. They don't.

Yeah, no, they bring everything with. them. They Yeah, yeah. Of course, what's. the first thing I did was like. Can I tell Can I tell you one of Can I. tell you one of the funniest moments I. ever had like that was. Um it was Gayle King invite This is like. early early early when I was like just. in the US hosting the Daily Show. Gayle. King invited me to. the Kennedy Center Honors. >> Yeah, they're fun. They're fun. I. covered them as a young reporter. >> Yeah, but in Obama's box. What? Ex- You.

see, now you're with me. Gail, she's. always up to things. That Gail. I remember I remember I remember going. Wait, what? She was like, "Trevor, come with me.". And you know how Gail She's like, "Trevor, you're going to love it." She's. like that. She's like Do you Do you know. Gail from TV? Then you know Gail. Exactly right. Gail is the most personal. of the most Gail She's the most Gail. person you've ever met. Gail is like. Gail. So Gail, she was like, "Trevor, you got to come Kennedy." I was like, "Okay, okay." We get there. We don't go to the main section. We go. into.

President Barack Obama's box. Walk in. There he is, Secret Service. everything. "Oh, Trevor, are you coming. to watch the show? Oh, we're going to. have a good time. Good time. It's going. to be good. Have you ever been here. before?" So we're in there. We go we sit. down. And then the show starts and I'm sitting. right behind him. And the Secret Service is like like way. back there. And I'm to your point of. like the glass. I'm like staring at his head and I was. looking at like the just like the hairs. on the back of his head and the. and and I was just like. when was the last time somebody like hit.

his head? >> That's how William Booth became who he. was. >> No, let me let me explain. That John. Wilkes Booth John Wilkes Booth No, cuz. no, but I. Let me explain. Let me explain. So you. thought about hitting his head. >> No, I did not I did not think about. hitting his head. Is that the first time. you almost got killed by the Secret. Service? You're going to get the Secret. Service coming No, I I just thought to. myself cuz I always I want this for. people. Why are you incriminating I've. got a visa. I have to. I can't wait to see where this is. ending. I always I love for people to. have human experiences. And I've asked.

President Obama this in person. I've. gone, "Do you miss being called by your. name? Do you miss somebody not knowing. you?" He does share that he he does miss. many of those things. He has dreams of. being on a park bench. Like literally, that's his dream. He's. like. Yeah, but that's what I mean. He dreams. of that. He's like, "Oh man, I you. know.". And when I was there. I like I was like. I imagine. No, I imagine like wow, when was the. last time in his life that somebody just. went pat on Barack Obama's head?

Oh, maybe. But I just thought that would. be so cool for him to be like, "What?". Like in that but then I was like, "How. close is the Secret Service? Would they. think I'm trying to kill him? Would they. Would they That's the problem. So I was. unable to afford him the experience. I. did not touch. him. Can I tell you a very brief Obama. story? So we did a interview and he he's. talking to digital people that you know, they decided let's get some digital. people. You know, that you know some. stupid marketing person or PR person in. the room. So I get one of the things and.

the other one was Remember the woman. with the green lips on MTV and I'm. blanking on her name. She had green lips. and she was an MTV VJ. So she gets an interview. I get an. interview but then they cut my interview. by 10 minutes and give it to her. And I. was like, are you [ __ ] kidding me? Like the like I'm sorry. I'm an you. know, I I don't mean to say don't you. know who I am but you just cut my. interview by 10 minutes. So that's hard. when you have it planned out in your. head, right? And everything. So Cuz. you've planned the whole thing I planned. the whole thing and I'm like, now I got. to do something. So we sit down and the. glasses are there and I'm thinking of.

touching the glass but then I that'll. take off another 5 minutes off because. it'll be to 5 minutes of moving the. glass around. So um so he so he sits. down. He's right knee to knee with me. and I go, "Listen, they just cut 10. minutes off my interview and here's the. problem I have with you is you talk too. much and you never have a pair you you. talk in paragraphs. You never stop. talking. I understand you've been. president for 6 years. and everyone listens to you but I'm. going to interrupt you and I'm sure. you're not used to that cuz no one. interrupts you but I'm about to. interrupt you a lot because they cut my.

[ __ ] 10 minutes. So just be aware. you're maybe not used to it but try to. remember when people used to interrupt. you, okay? Great. He looks at me and goes, "I heard you. were obnoxious." And I go, "I am." And. we started the interview. The whole. interview he was so pithy. I totally. like mind [ __ ] him to do it. So later. I totally mind He completely fell for. it. And so and I was always I I got in. an argument with him too because one of. you have to figure out what in an. interview is the thing and he does not.

like getting mad and I kept trying to. get him mad cuz he's he's resisting. anger, right? Cuz he doesn't want to be. angry black guy, I guess. I don't know. Whatever. I kept trying to get him mad. And. so we do the interview. It was very. testy actually. It was a very testy. interview cuz everyone sort of is not. testy to him and I was like, I'm going. for testy. So. months months and months later when he. was leaving office, my ex-wife worked. for him as the CTO. And when you when he. ends his administration, every It's such. a lovely thing. You go into the Oval. Office and meet him and you get a. handshake and a picture. Everything from.

Susan Rice on down gets this. It's lovely. It's a lovely tradition. So. my ex-wife goes, "Hey, come with us. It'd be really nice to have the whole. family there. The sons would love it. It. would be really great." So we go. I go, "I don't know. He's he doesn't. like me very much.". For good reason. Yes, no, but he I poked. and prodded him for 2 hours. He lost his. cool people. And so we walk in the Oval. Office and he goes, "How did you get in. here?". So then so then it gets worse. So I was. like, "I don't want to be here either,

And so he goes, "Fine, we'll take the. picture." And he had knows everything. about everybody. Must be given cards or. little factoids. You know how they know? Like So you So he goes to my oldest son. and he goes, "Louis, I hear you're such. a good cook and if you open a restaurant. someday, can you come?" And Louis goes, "Yeah, sure. Absolutely, Mr. President. I'll cook you a great meal." And my. other son who's a techy and he goes, "Alex, do you you know, you want to um. do you want to do when I when your. company, would you let me invest in your.

company?" And my son goes, "Maybe.". That's your boy. And he goes, "This is. your son?". I was like, "Yes, HE IS. MAYBE. WE'LL. see if he'll let you on the cap table. We're not sure if you're worthy." And I. just look We we had a recent back and. forth because I had said I thought he. should step a little more and stop. hanging out with celebrities and go say. something cuz Trump was problematic and. I thought he hung back too much.

So I got all this pushback cuz they're. like, "Oh, why should he come in and do. it?" I'm like, "Cuz he's the most. important Democrat in existence and it's. a compliment to him which I don't tend. to pay him. So I would I would say he's. the one who has to stand up until they. figure out who the next you know, leader. is.". And I got I got a text from their. office. They're like, "We don't think he has to you know, he. he doesn't have to step up." I was like, "Oh, no, he has to step up. I don't care. what you say.". No, no, I I Here's what I think it is. I.

think damned if you do, damned if you. don't, right? So. if Obama continues to step in, there will never be somebody else who. steps in and then you you sort of don't. create No, genuine I genuinely believe. this. I think like people people will. often say. and I I've seen this happen when there. was like the rallies even when Biden was. running, Kamala was running, all all of. these things. He would come out and then people be. like, "Well, why isn't it that guy?" And. you know where you're you're sort of not. helping. He would end up cock-blocking the next. person. That's what I mean. You are. cock-blocking. Right now, we're under.

extenuating emergency circumstances. >> Yeah, but I would argue in this moment. in time and I mean everyone will. disagree or agree. I would argue in this. moment in time I don't know that he. would have necessarily the best impact. I actually think. you know, like Star Trek a new. generation type thing. I think like the. Zorons and the whatever. people are not going to be. if Obama was to step in now, I can very. quickly see people turning around and. going like, "How did you let this. happen?" And all of a sudden it becomes. like this like Do you Do you know what I.

mean? I I think he should I think I I. think he has so much gravitas and it's. an emergency situation and he will help. the transition. And it's a different. media world now. Everything's Everyone's. operating as if it's the same thing and. it's not the It is indeed not the same. thing. >> the same thing for sure. >> And so acting like the Democrats are. peacetime like Yeah, I mean, come on. Come on. >> Stop it. Like stop Chuck Chuck Schumer. turn off the social media cameras right. now cuz you suck. But like what Zorn and. Mandami is doing, what Newsom is doing,

that's what's required which is muscular. and I don't mean that in a gender. specific way. It's like it's muscular, it's aggressive, it's promiscuous and. it's constant. from a thing and it's a. very different thing and Obama has a. an incredible charisma and charm that. will take it to the next thing that. needs to be to counter and he is the. counter at this moment and then he. brings up people. Like I don't I don't. know I just Anyway, if you noticed he's been saying a lot. more lately. >> He has. Now, yes. >> him like He just like rubbed him.

>> Like I was like, "Don't you think?" And. you know, I think it's I think he's I. it's And I was like, "I'm paying you a. [ __ ] compliment for once. So. Oh, man. This was fun, man. >> You got Barack activated. Trevor almost. hit him at the back of the head. I mean. No, there was no almost. >> trying to physically hurt him. >> Don't ever do that. You thought about. it. >> No. For a second. >> it. You thought about it. >> Whether or not he had. experience. >> You know what? He didn't think about. hitting. He wanted to rub his hands on. him. He essentially rubbed his head. I. wondered when was the last time he had a.

very human experience of somebody. sitting behind you and just. doing that on your head. >> his ear. Or next time you see him, will. you touch his ear for us? I will not. I will not because I want my pictures. and I do not want to be on enemy terms. with Barack Obama. Now, when I walk in. the room he's going to be like, "Are. you?" Yeah. Are you and Carl? How did. you get in here? How How did you get in. here, Trevor? Next time I see him, I'm. going to touch his ear. I'm going to I'm. going to ask cuz I'm a I'm a consent. kind of girl. May I touch your ear? I. want no part of this. I'm going to say.

it was your idea. >> No part of this. No part of this. He'll. know it was not my idea. >> No, I'll say no it was. He'll tell you. it was his idea. >> for a fact. He will know for a fact. Remember when he told us? I'll put the. doubt in his mind so he won't know that. Let me tell you something. If there's one thing he will know is. that it was not my idea. No, it was. >> Remember when it when Trevor said he. wants to hold both of his ears? That's. right. I told him. Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it,

pass it on to your friend still. Let them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. If you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you. can chat to us. We will read through the. comments and we'll get into it. Either. way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on. What Now and remember we do this for you. so we would like to hear from you. Till. next time. Thank you.