Hasan Piker: Subpoenaed by the Feds

[music]. What do you think? Even if it's three. percentage points. No, bro. What do you. mean? What do I think? >> Can a woman run the country? >> Woman run the country. >> Oh, my man. Anytime. >> Any day. >> Let me put it this way, Eugene. I'm even. I'm even going to go a step further, my. friend. I'm even going to go a step. further, my friend. >> He's going a step further. >> Let me let me say this, my man. In a. world where we have lived through. multiple world wars and famines. >> and civil wars and. >> in that world. >> that's not the time to say can women do.

this or not. Does that make sense? >> 100%. >> If our plane. >> men ruined it already. >> I was saying if our plane was flying. with no turbulence, no crashes, no. disasters at all. If our airline as men. was running flawlessly, then I'd be. like, "Ah, ladies, ladies, take a back. seat. This is not the time for you to be. flying this thing. We got it. The fellas. got it. But I'm just saying the way the. fellas have been handling things. >> The fellas don't got it. >> right now. How much are you paying for. gas? That's the fellas. I I don't see.

any women involved in those. negotiations, >> invasions. >> I'm just saying. I'm just So I'm not. saying the women would be better. I'm. not saying that. >> You're not saying they'll be better. >> I'm just saying that. >> they'll be okay. >> We should not act like the thing that is. happening now is the one. Wait, but. sending out one lady to go against many. fellas that are out there running. countries and starting wars and. conflicts. >> You know who was one of the most that. woman would one of the most effective? >> Margaret Thatcher. >> Angela Merkel. >> Oh god.

>> Angela Merkel was one of the most. effective in that. Now she's not perfect. by any means, but I I still have I've. yet to meet a perfect president. I'm. going to put it out there. >> Yeah. I I am diametrically opposed to. all of these conversation. I say no. women. NO, I'M KIDDING. [laughter]. >> DAMN. I WAS LIKE, THAT ONE THAT. I. >> I THINK. >> WE GOT HIM. It's a wrap. [laughter]. [music]. >> This is What now with Trevor Noah.

>> [music]. >> Why would you not want to put it up. there? >> Wait, the cap was gone. >> Yeah, but but he put on the floor. So, I. was like, put Oh, he doesn't want it. >> No, I want your hat. >> He's anti-communist. [laughter] Vicious. anti. >> He's actually anti-ap. >> Yeah. >> His father was killed by a cap. >> No cap. >> No cap. >> Okay, good. [clears throat]. >> His father was killed by a cap. [laughter] and his grandfather was.

killed by a cap. And from that day. onwards, he vowed, "No cap.". >> I'm a I'm a EFF. uh loyalist. >> Oh, you are? >> Yeah. >> Oh, you're lying. >> So So tell me why. >> I'm just kidding. I mean I [laughter]. Okay. I was hoping I was hoping you said. >> No, I mean I I I I think the the. environment of panic uh around him is is. very funny. >> Definitely. >> Um or was Well, now he's Yeah. >> What what what's happening? What what. [clears throat] I mean obviously you you. can't speak for everyone, but what's. what's what are people saying on the.

ground in South Africa right now. >> about Julius? He he lost people when he. was. on the side of illegal migration. >> Really? >> Illegal immigrants. So he said this this. one Africa because his plan was four. years ago he wanted to branch out the. EFF into other African countries. >> Oh. >> and then he failed and the one place. that he failed the most was Zimbabwe. >> cuz the vice president of Zimbabwe said. you keep your things over there. >> and then don't bring them here. >> And then the same Zimbabweans that were. saying we love this guy did not vote for.

him still. They voted for Zanopf. And. then now there's a new group in South. Africa called March on March which is a. social movement group. >> that is now demonstrating and picketing. against foreign immigrants and is saying. there's a deadline by the 30th of June. all the illegal immigrants must be gone. >> We [snorts] always have that in South. Africa every few years. >> So he's saying they must stay and then. they're like ah you've lost time. >> So he was too woke. at the wrong time for his crown. >> He went he went off the deep end on too. woke. They were like, "We love when you. were singing Kill the Boore, [laughter].

but then you started saying, >> you know, you you started talking about. this pan-African nationalist movement. I. don't [ __ ] with that.". >> Yeah. >> South Africa for South Africans only. >> And also when you when you look young. with extreme views, you're more. palatable. >> Oh, interesting. Young. >> He was young. >> Okay. I was going to say, >> so now he doesn't look so young anymore. Yes. When you see those images of Nelson. Mandela being defiant, Reonia trial, he. was young. Chris Hani when he just came. back from exile he was young so he was. also the young guy in the ANC telling.

people that they've you know their time. lost their way yeah but now when you. look old but you still fighting people. are like no at some point you have to. you know. >> andrew Tate with gray with a gray beard. would not fly. >> Tate beard with a gray beard. >> with a gray beard. I'm starting to get a gray beard [ __ ]. >> you [laughter] then you got a few more. years of revolutionary in you and then. it's over actually let me let me ask you. a question like like Um, I I always. wonder this for anyone who gets to step. into an environment that that they.

haven't haven't been into. If you walk. into a room now, like you've walked into. this podcast, right? >> How would you introduce yourself? How. would you introduce yourself and how do. you think people perceive you when you. walk in? >> This is an interesting question. I don't. think about it at all, but I would. introduce myself as I'm Hassan [ __ ]. That's it. Um, if people ask me what I. do for a living, I just say I'm a. political commentator. >> Okay? And then they would say like, "Oh, what do you what do you what politics do. you commentate on?". >> Um, just say, "Well, it depends. If I'm. talking to a border patrol agent,

[laughter]. >> THIS did happen. This did have this. happens a lot. I'm leaving Canada. I was. on a day trip. I talked to Gabbor Mate. at the Web Summit in Vancouver and I. realized I have a jacket on. There's a. hammer and sickle pin that a fan of mine. gave me. >> It's on the jacket. I'm wearing a. Democratic Socialist of America New York. City hat. I immediately take it off. I. rip the pin off and I walk up to the. counter and the guy's like, "Oh, what.

are you doing?" He's a day trip. That's. strange. I was like, "Oh, yeah. I'm just. I'm a speaker.". >> And he's like, "Oh, what do you talk. about? Like, what do you do?" I'm like, "Oh, I'm a I'm an influencer." And he's. like, "What do you influence on? What do. you speak on?" I was like, "Well, you. know, uh, what's going on with young. men?" And I tried to keep it as like. broad as possible. And then he he got. excited. >> He's like, "So, are you a political. speaker or a religious speaker?". >> He knew you. >> And uh and I was like, "No, I just talk. about lifestyle.".

>> He knew you. >> No, no, >> he's in the world. >> No, >> he was in the Were you going into Canada. or. >> No, no, I was leaving Canada, but the. American Border Patrol is inside of. Canada. So there's a couple places like. in Ireland, America, and I think Mexico. as well where they have like stationed. their own border. >> patrol. You can you can do the border. process on that side. So that on this. side you can just land domestic and be. on your merry way. >> Yeah. And it's it's good though cuz like. usually those guys are more woke. Like. those border patrol guys are more woke. On Yeah. On the American than the.

American ones, [laughter] I think. So. they just kind of go, "All right, well, you're fine. Get in there.". >> Yeah. The reason I ask you is because. you have, especially right now, you have. such an insane reputation that precedes. you, depending on where people get their. news. >> Mhm. >> Do you know what I mean? Like I find it. so interesting. So if you read, let's. say, what people would term mainstream. or legacy media, you know, like old. newspapers and stuff like that, >> I would say that you're categorized as. um an extreme leftist [laughter] who is.

like radical. That's what they say, right? And then if I go on like Twitch or any. of like the the younger, you know, places wherever they are, people are. like, "Yeah, this is Hassan's a. political commentator who's actually. speaking about what's happening and he's. not afraid to to tell his truth.". >> Uh, if I go to right-wing media, I mean, that one's obvious. You're a terrorist. I think you know this. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Of course. >> Sometimes they call you a radical.

terrorist and I'm like, I don't. understand the difference. Is there like. a tame terrorist? There's a moderate. terrorism radical one. Moderate. terrorism is is Nancy Pelosi. >> Oh, >> we're both communists. >> I see. >> But she's a more moderate terrorist. >> Ah, so you're a radical terrorist and. she's a moder. Okay, I see. Okay, so. there's that. >> Give it away. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But like where do you situate yourself. in it or do you do you do you even think. you sit in one place? Cuz I'll tell you. why I asked this question. I've learned. from myself personally in life, depending on who I meet,

>> they have a very different starting. point as to where to position me. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> So, I want to know if you position. yourself in one place or if you're just. a human being navigating like how do you. how do you position yourself? >> I'm just I'm just a normal guy. So from. my perspective, I I just see myself as a. regular dude who has a lot of strong. opinions and isn't afraid to to talk. about those opinions. And I know that. sounds almost like a political answer,

but it's just true. I don't I don't. think of myself as like a famous person. I don't think of myself as like a. dangerous radical, obviously. I just. want what's best, what I think is best. for society. >> Huh. >> And that's it. But you are you are. famous now. >> I guess. >> No not you guess. Come on Hassan. >> Come on Hassan. Don't be humble here. with us is number one on the call sheet. AND [laughter] FIGHTING IT. >> NO JUST SERVE the other people first.

>> No. Whether you whether you like it or. not [laughter] like because you have. been thrust into a spotlight where. people listen to what you're saying. People look to you. I would even argue. that you have the ability to shift and. move people's votes and opinions in the. country. Now, >> apparently, don't don't talk about that. too much, though, cuz everybody gets mad. at me when when people start addressing. that. >> Wait, really? >> Liberals get mad at me about uh that. exact uh influence that they think I.

wield. I I don't think I'm like a. kingmaker, per se, the way that it's. been presented. >> Um I do have some influence, certainly. Uh and I think uh it it's mostly within. the activist base of the party, >> the door knockers, the community. organizers, labor union organizers, rank. and filers and whatnot. >> Uh so so we do have the capacity to to. you know. >> uh offer a lot of help to candidates. that align with us. Um and I think. that's that's very frustrating for.

obviously the Republicans who think. we're dangerous terrorists. Um, but. certainly even for some centrists in the. Democratic party as well, because I've. been getting attacked obviously my. entire life and my entire career by. Republicans, neo-Nazis, the far right, and everything else. Yeah. >> Um, but I would say that in these last. couple of years, I've also started. getting a lot of uh eye from Democrats, moderate Democrats, corporatebacked.

Democrats, neoliberals in general, like. the Third Way, uh, and all of these. other institutions like lobbyist groups. that want the Democratic party to to. maintain this moderate pivot. permanently, constantly consiliatory to. right-wing culture warfring. Um, and I. obviously oppose that and I think that's. precisely the reason why Kla Harris. lost. It's the reason why Hillary. Clinton lost to Donald Trump now twice. and I want to change that. But these.

lobbyists don't want to change that. because that's where their bread is. buttered. and they get very pissed off. You say. your whole life and your whole career, but take us back. What what brings you. to this point? like we meet you at this. moment in your life, but like how how. does how does Hassan Per come to be? >> Um, >> like where were you born? How were you. raised here? >> I was born in America. >> No, no, I'm not saying you're like a. border agent. I'm saying to me. [laughter] I'm saying like a life story. He's so defensive about it.

>> This man is like where were you? I was. born here. I'm born in America. [laughter]. Still. >> lingers. I I don't know if you heard, but the federal government's coming. after me. >> We actually need to talk about that. Yeah, but but no, >> so I need to say it. I was born here. I'm an American citizen. [laughter]. Um, I could run for president. I would. never do that, though. [laughter] So, don't get scared. >> Oh, man. >> You know, you know what's funny about. this is I I do find it I do find it. hilarious that over the years, in a good. way, I'm not saying this in a bad way at. all, but over the years, >> the border agents at American airports.

and and ports have become increasingly. immigrants. >> Yeah. Oh, yes. >> So, it's interesting to be at the. border. Yes. >> Interviewed by an immigrant who's now, I'm assuming, an American citizen. >> It's an amazing experience for an. immigrant. Yeah. But but it's also. interesting. Yeah. But it's also. interesting when it feels like they're. more likely to kick you out. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> No. Never had that feeling. >> You've never had that feeling? Never. >> That's crazy. >> No. In fact, I feel like it's a. >> give them hell. >> I'm I have a 9 hour shift. But you on. the other hand, that's beautiful. No, I. like I like that.

>> I've never felt that way. >> You have a unbelievably positive. outlook. >> Yeah. He's a positive guy that I think. is borderline naive and and maybe even. dangerous. >> You know how many times I've gotten. through with that editing? That's crazy. [laughter]. >> English is great at the border. WHAT ARE. YOU TALKING ABOUT? CONTROL. >> I have the exact opposite experience. That's crazy. Where I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ]. Here we go." Every time I have to deal. with customs and border patrol, I mean, I've been detained. >> by Customs Border Patrol as well. >> Uh, yes. U both when I'm flying in uh.

cuz they do the the triple S or. whatever. >> I've got the trip S. What's the triple. S? >> YO, I F. >> IT'S a random uh fellow trip. >> Random security. It's actually four S's. It might be four to the side. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But they don't but they don't tell you. So. >> wait. So you get to the window. >> Okay. So I'll explain. >> Yeah. >> You you have your your ticket for your. flight. Right. If you have it on your. phone, it just tells you no, you can't. check in. Doesn't tell you. It's like. you just need to speak to somebody when. you get to the airport. Just speak to. somebody. You're like, "Why? I want to.

check in." They're like, "Just relax. You're checked in, but we won't give you. a boarding pass. >> Just talk to someone.". >> You get to the airport. >> When you get to the desk, they ask for. your passport. They ask for everything. They then print your boarding pass. They. say nothing to you. And then on your. boarding pass underneath like a bunch of. random right, you know, all the stuff, ticket number, boarding time, all of. that. >> I think there's al some [ __ ] numbers. there that don't. >> Yeah, there's just four S's. >> Yeah, random security clearance. >> Yeah, it's just it just goes SSS.

>> Super secret security search. >> Is that what it is? >> I don't think so. >> That would be good. [laughter] That. would be good. And then what happens is. you move through the airport. >> Yeah. >> You. >> So still nothing. No one nothing happens generally. >> Your bags are checked in. >> But then when you get to the gate, >> the boarding gate. >> Yeah. Yeah. The boarding gate. Everyone. and then they pull you aside and excuse. me. >> Would you like to take off your. underweares, please? >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. They do a They do a special I mean. they don't do but. >> they go like. >> squat and cough.

>> No, no, no, no, no. Squatting. Just. coughing. >> Well, maybe they do [laughter] it. Maybe. maybe they do it to other people. But. >> wait, so they pull you to the side? >> Yeah. Then you have to go into a little. secret room which is not a secret. >> Some some airports just they just create. like a partition so you're outside but. inside. >> and they empty everything. >> Yeah. And sometimes you're with a big. group and they're all all walking and. you get pulled to the side and you're. like waving at them like [laughter]. >> see you on the flight hopefully. Um, and. that's usually when you're on foreign. soil coming back into the United States.

of America. >> because they have like uh double triple. TSA basically uh when you're uh an. American citizen I guess coming back. But I I got detained at O'Hare airport. uh by by Customs and Border Patrol on my. way back from France. I was about to. speak at University of Chicago uh at the. politics institute and they they pulled. me aside. and they had revoked my global entry. which I never got to use which is really. annoying. Uh I hate that I it took so.

long I had to do all these interviews. >> Yeah. And you have to give your life and. and they they gave it to me. I got the. card and I never even got to use it. First time I use it, I get detained. And. um yeah, they they pulled me aside uh. into a a secondary detention area where. there's like an interrogation room and. you sit in there. >> Yeah, it was on it was in the news. Yeah, it was uh they they did this. secondary uh uh detention and then uh. interrogation where they asked me like, "What are your thoughts on Israel? What.

are your thoughts on Donald Trump? Have. you ever been in contact with like. anyone from Hamas, Hezbollah, uh Ansarah. movement?" like the Houthies, all this. stuff. >> When you're in when you're sitting there. in that moment, what was there a part of you that just. goes like just say nice things about. Donald Trump? >> No. Uh I mean I. >> a little bit. >> Well, there were Here's what I did. Um. when they kept asking me about Hamas, what my thoughts are, I just kept. repeating Hamas is a uh designated as a. uh terrorist organization by the State.

Department. I just kept repeating that. line over and over again. >> It's just a fact. >> Yeah. >> It's not. >> It's not your opinion. It's not my. opinion, it's just a fact about Hamas. >> Um, and then when they asked me about. Trump, I was like, that's when I did. push back where I was like, yeah, I. don't like him. Like, what do you mean? Yeah, damn. >> I was like, yeah, I don't like him. What. What are you talking about? I'm an. American citizen entering my country. Like, that's ridiculous. >> Um, and they didn't give me too much. stress about that, but they did ask a. lot about like the people that I I had. interviewed. There was this Yemen.

teenager who was 19 years old, and the. media dubbed him Tim Houthy Shalom. was. uh. >> that was creative. That sounds like. something you would say. >> It is, but I didn't. >> No, you didn't say it. >> But he never he But creative words. This. one. >> kind of my vibe, but definitely not me. Did you say that? >> Yeah. Tim Houthy shall. [laughter]. >> So, uh, yeah, I did get him. I did get. that from Trevor, by the way. >> No way. [laughter]. >> He texted it in me. He texted it to me. He was like, "That's a good one. You. should use this. >> Don't involve me. >> I know my friends words don't [laughter].

Yeah. Yeah. He's like, "Look, look, obviously." [laughter]. He said, "Obviously, the Anarah movement. is doing the right thing.". >> Wow. Wow. [laughter]. >> Edit, edit, asterisk, delete, delete. Asterisk, delete asterisk, asterisk, edit. [laughter]. >> So, you know, it's cool though. It's. It's fine. You can deny it now. [laughter]. >> This guy, you're playing here, my man. I. wasn't born in this country, my man. You. playing games here, my man.

But yeah, I um uh they were asking me. about like uh whether he like whether. this person was actually a part of the. Houthy movement. >> and I was like I got lucky I think or. they did this deliberately. The guy I. was talking to was going back to what. you were talking about. >> an Arab uh CBP officer. >> So he was knowledgeable about like the. the region at least. Okay. >> So I think he was like a. counterterrorism guy. And I was just.

like, "No, the dude's name is Rashid. al-Had. He's Sunni. He's a Sunni uh. Yemeni. Uh and and obviously his last. name is not Al Houthi and he's not Shia. So of course he's not a part of the. Houthi movement, not a part of Allah.". He's like, "Oh, okay. I understand. that." Um but what's interesting about. that is it's not illegal. Like as an. American citizen and as a member of the. media, of course I'm going to sometimes. talk to to members of of you know, state. sponsored terrorist organizations. That's a normal part of the process. And. it's uh and it's protected by the first.

amendment, right? And I haven't. So I. told them that I had not. But it is. something that is is very uh strange to. ask someone who is a member of the media. on their entry into the country. Uh. because I think they were trying to tie. that back to offering material support. This is a real big point of contention. right now in in constitutional law as. well. Yeah. where they are the. administration of the state department,

the government is trying to basically. expand the boundaries of what. constitutes for material support because. material support terrorist organizations. is very illegal. Um but. >> and just just to break that down for for. some for so we're on the same page. >> Yeah. When you're saying material. support of a terrorist organization, the. United States government has said like. most governments I'm assuming in the. world, it is illegal to support a. terrorist organization overseas. financially or with arms or. >> now it's becoming media I guess. >> Yeah. But now that's that's an.

interesting but now but now they are uh. trying to expand it into speech and one. of the first things that they did was. actually legal counsel which again. >> is is a constitutionally protected. right. So they were trying to prosecute. lawyers that would uh that would, you. know, defend someone who's been accused. of terrorism. >> Exactly. And and it didn't work. Uh they. put that on the back burner, but I think. now with this administration, they're. trying to punish dissident and they're. trying to erode the first amendment. really.

>> I mean, they could expand it if if if. you look at the nth degree, they could. expand it to you even having an. interview with somebody. >> regardless of your support of them. because they could argue that the. interview was platforming them. And so. you've given them some of your material. support, which is your subscriber base. >> Yeah. And that's obviously totally. ridiculous, antithetical to the First. Amendment. So. >> what were you going to say? >> I'm saying that Yeah. No, no, no. I was. agreeing with him. I was saying the. audience is now seen as material. support. >> Yeah. It's um. >> scary. >> I was about to say, are you not scared.

living this life? >> I mean, it's not great. It's it's. definitely tense at times, but um. someone's got to do it, you know? And I. I the way I see it is like I'm speaking. for uh for the most part voiceless. people, people whose voices are never. heard. And someone has to do that. And I. I do believe in in the better nature of. man that they if they encounter this. information and and have a sense of. charitability, [snorts] they will. understand and they will change their.

minds. >> Yeah. But what I mean is like I'm just. talking about you on a human level. How. has it affected. how you move through the world? So the. there's there's our front-facing selves. >> and then there's the us that we just. live with every single day. Like the. person who hears a bump in the middle of. the night. Uh the person who hears. footsteps running behind them and it's a. jogger. Like has have you found that. your nervous system has changed over the. years that that you know as your profile. has has evolved? >> I mean I've had to deal with cyber. stalkers for most of my life before I.

gained like more mainstream credibility. and more mainstream attention. Yeah. So, I'm pretty used to being on the. receiving end of death threats, doxing, swatting, things of that nature. And. unfortunately, it's it's a it's a part. of the job. It shouldn't be. It's. horrifying. Uh but you just kind of get. used to it after a while. You you say. it's a part of the job, but. I say this with all due respect, it's. not necessarily. >> Mhm. It's a part of what your job has.

sort of become like like I I I think I. think you you um you have a lot of. bravery in saying this. but there's a lot of people who don't. have this as a part of their job. Like. there's a lot of news anchors who don't. have these issues. There's a lot of. people who are you know they hosting. like a debate show on on cable. television. >> war zones and they come back and. >> they don't have this. So, so I I would. love to know like when it when it first. started, like what was the. >> which platform were you on where you. started to notice, oh, I'm not just.

breaking through to the people I'm. speaking to, but I'm starting to piss. off the the people I'm speaking against. I mean, even when I was at the Young. Turks, um, all the way back in like. 2014, 2015, >> uh, when I would like randomly appear on. some of the shows, >> uh, and then certainly after 2016 when I. had my own show on the on the platform. on on Facebook, uh, called The. Breakdown, where, uh, I I started. noticing that I think that was the first. time I ever saw one of these forums. >> where, you know, neo-Nazis congregate.

where they were like mapping out the. blueprints of my my apartment and the. apartment complex in general. Are you. kidding me? >> And and you know, talking about how I I. had two pit bulls, you know, my I had a. pit bull and my roommate had one as. well. And they were talking about how. like you need to come in with like a. stick of salami or something to like. bribe the dogs and then, you know, and. how they would just like break in uh to. my house and kill me. And that was. terrifying when it first happened. Um. but that is so common place that I just.

don't even think about it. That was, you. know, more than 10 years ago at this. point. So, um, it's just, you know, it's. not something that I I think about all. that much. >> Yeah. >> Or place a lot of emphasis on because I. feel like that would almost allow these. people to win cuz they want to create an. environment of fear, an environment of. tension that disrupts what I want to do. And I'm not going to give into that. And. um, I mean, I even said this after. Charlie Kirk got assassinated. I was.

supposed to debate him 2 weeks after his. assassination. Obviously, it didn't. happen. Um, but uh one of the things. that people kept asking me is like, "Do. you have security? Are you changing. things?" And and for the first like week. or so, uh I I had to cancel some of my. uh public appearances. But shortly after that, I started going. back out there, going out in public, going to protests again. And uh and and. you know people kept saying like aren't.

you worried? And uh my answer always is. the same. It's just I can't let fear. >> uh uh change what I want to do. I can't. let fear influence my life in this way. So I choose not to think about it. Many. of my friends think I'm insane for that. reason. But I guess sometimes you got to. be a little insane. >> I mean that's if you want to change. things, there's a there's a certain. level of insanity that's required. Doesn't [clears throat] matter what. field you're in. If you're in science, if you're in music, if you're in comedy, if you're in political commentary, it it.

doesn't matter what you're in. But but I. I guess. what intrigues me about you is. how it doesn't seem to have necessarily. changed you or or maybe it has and I and. I haven't seen it, you know. So. >> when you stream, one of the things about streaming that's. unique is that, you know, as the name. suggests, it's like a stream of. consciousness. Mhm. >> You know, [clears throat] so when you. were on the Young Turks, you was like. very prepared and you know, this is. something that's going to be put out and.

it can be edited and it can be But when. you're streaming, it's you. You say. something and it's out already. It's. it's. >> I've always I've always wondered how. much stress that puts on you because you. know when we when we're saying stuff, >> anything can come out of your mouth. >> Yeah. >> And then there's a moment where you go. like damn. like all the stuff that's not. going to make it to the final cut that. you said about [laughter]. these state sponsored terrorist. organizations. >> See my face. You see this guy? You see. this guy? >> Which [laughter] made me It shocked me. Did it shock you? >> Shocked.

>> Yeah. >> I was flabbergasted. >> Yeah. I just I had no idea. >> Couldn't believe what was GOING ON. [laughter]. >> OH MAN. I had no idea what opinions you. hold. >> so much. [laughter]. >> But yeah. No, but but like I'm saying. when you're when you're in that space, you you also didn't change your So this. is okay. This is what I I I notice and. it's it's something that's always. plagued me in American political. commentary.

A lot of how. American political commentators act is. not sort of how they are and it's not. how they feel. >> Oh yeah. It seems like put on a persona. depending on who. >> and and and I feel like there's a lot of. money to be made from doing this. >> Oh yeah. >> Right. There's a lot of um. >> there's a lot of fame. There's there's a. lot of power. But my issue is that it's. not them. So I remember when the first. time this this happened to me, it was a. rude awakening. I was I had been on the. Daily Show for like a year or or two.

years and I got invited to an event. It. was like the hundred most influential. like news people in America type thing, but it's only like journalist and news. and whatever. And I get there. >> and I'll never forget somebody from an. extreme like right-wing publication. >> They came up to me and they when they. walked up to me, I genuinely thought. they were going to fight. I was like, "Okay, I'm ready.". >> Mm- [clears throat]. >> I just thought, "Okay, this person's. coming to fight. I've talked [ __ ] about. them and what they've said. I believe it. genuinely they're going to fight me.".

And they came up to me and stretched out. hand was like, "Hey, look at this guy. Hey, Trevor. How you doing, man? What's. going on?" Huh? Look at this. Not bad. Not bad. >> And I promise you now, >> not not even God as my witness. Kibuka, anyone who worked with me at the time. can tell you the next day when I was. >> higher than God. >> Yeah. Because you can't ask God. Maybe. God will tell you a different thing. >> That's crazy. >> No, because God. >> the stuff that he said. >> Yeah. >> Now, yeah. Now he's he's now we know. he's a radical atheist [laughter] as. well. No, because my thing is when. people say God is my witness, you can't.

ask God yourself. Maybe maybe you don't. even know which God I'm saying, but I. can also give you humans in case you. want to ask them. >> So true. For reference sake. Yeah. >> The next day, >> the first thing I said, not only did I. not engage in this conversation, I. actually felt like an [ __ ] because. you could see he was looking at me like, "Why are you being like this?". >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Damn. I've had this exact same. >> Yeah. But then Yeah. But then I remember. going, "Oh, you've had this." I remember. going, >> "Am I. I'm taking this seriously. >> I was like, "Oh, I'm saying what I.

believe, but you are in wrestling.". >> Yes. >> I'm out here thinking I am fighting the. Incredible Hulk. You know what I mean? Like, I'm Hulk Hogan. I'm Let me tell. you something, brother. >> And then when I meet him, he's just. like, "Hey, I'm Terry.". >> Yeah. >> And I was like, "No, I'm I came here to. destroy you.". >> Yeah. >> Because this is how I feel. The reason I I bring this up is because, you know, you look at Charlie Kirk, you. look at a lot of the rhetoric in. America, I find it interesting how in all of. those moments, people who were espousing.

certain opinions and ideas very quickly. like pull down a mask and they go, "Hey, you know, I know sometimes in this. country people get heated and but you. know, we we need to" and I'm like, "Wait, wait, what is happening right. now? >> We need to cool down the temperature.". >> Yeah. I go you. >> that's their favorite word. >> Yeah. >> You've said that Donald Trump is the. second coming of Hitler. You've said. that this man is going to abolish the. Constitution. You said that you said. you've said these things as a person.

>> Yes. >> Then something happens. Someone shoots. at Donald Trump and misses. And then you. come out the next day and you go, "Guys, guys, guys, >> I I know that he might be the second. coming of Hitler, but he's our president. and we have to stand behind." I'm like, do you not see? [laughter] No, but I'm. like, do you not see the inconsistency. of what you're doing? And more more. dangerously, do you not see that you. >> are creating kayfabe? You're creating. wrestling with real people's lives. >> Yeah. >> And then when you start to get afraid,

you go, why are you guys taking it. seriously? And so I want to know from. you because you've remained like. consistent through it all. Do you find. it difficult to just like be you when. you know that some people are playing a. character version of themselves? Uh so. I had the almost identical experience. that you're describing when I went to. the White House uh correspondence dinner. weekend activities. uh one of the weekends many many years.

ago when I was at the Young Turks and. they were throwing an event. I didn't. actually attend the uh the the event. itself. >> but I walked into a bar and this is at. the peak of like Trump one. >> All of a sudden the entire press is. there right? The press pool is there. All these commentary people are there. And I think it was Kellyanne Conway that. walked into the bar and the room lit up. cuz everyone was excited. Anthony. Scaramucci, Sean Spicer, all these people walk in and these.

liberal. uh these liberal commentary people, these journalists who have like uh. written scathing reports about these. people were excited to take photos. >> Yes. And this thing, this. [clears throat] is the thing. >> And that's where I I was reminded of and. I hate this guy obviously, rest in piss, Andrew Breitbart, but I was reminded of. his his statement about how DC is. Hollywood for ugly people. >> It's [clears throat] true. I mean, sometimes you can be an [ __ ] but you. can get it right. Um, and he was right.

about that. It is Hollywood for ugly. people where it it's it's for the most. part the the kayfabe is absolutely real. like these guys see what they're doing. as as uh theatrics for the most part. They don't like not to say that all. reporters are like this. Obviously not. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's some brilliant journalists. out there and and some great uh people. in the commentary sphere as well. And. there are certainly. >> issues that they do care about, right? Where they are uncompromising, where. their true side comes out, their true.

opinions come out. But for the most. part, everyone in that bubble in the. media bubble is is playing a role and. they they see it as such. And maybe it's. uh it's not dissimilar to I guess like. having a coworker that you disagree with. vehemently, but you know, you're chill. towards them at the at the water cooler. I don't know. Uh maybe it's something. like that. But I don't I don't like that. at [snorts] all because like these are. my real opinions. I can't lie about who. I am because I'm live for eight hours a.

day, seven days a week. >> Yeah, that's what I was that's what I. meant. >> It's impossible for me to put on a. persona. I can be uh more buttoned up in. moments like this on a podcast where I'm. not like, you know, inundated with. messages coming in from the side on the. chat. >> Um because like the the medium that I. occupy is is very interactive. That's. what makes it so different, >> right? But the issues I talk about are. are emotionally charged and and very uh. personal for a lot of people, right? It's very polarizing and uh it's a it's.

a perfect disaster to to say the least. I mean, it's just you have you're. talking about politics 8 hours a day, 7. days a week, and anyone from all around. the world anonymously can come in and. try to pick apart what you're saying or. piss you off or say something heinous in. real time. >> In real time. And many people do take. advantage of that. Uh that in my opinion. creates really productive discourse and. and can be unproductive. Oh, interesting. >> But then on top of that, I have entire.

groups organized on the internet that. that sit inside of Discord servers and. subreddits that that uh spend a good. deal of time watching and logging every. single thing that happens on the stream. so they can like clip something out of. context and then disseminate it to a lot. of right-wing groups. And I've noticed. that this is something that happens. almost exclusively to people on the. left. Um, people on the left have to uh. face opposition from the entirety of the. right-wing, right? From moderate.

Republicans all the way to neo-Nazis and. white nationalists alike. But they also. face a lot of opposition from a big. chunk of the Democratic party's. commentary base as well. um not. necessarily the voters but certainly. from consultant groups, lobbyists and. and uh you know those invested in. maintaining the the corporate interest. at the at the center of power in the. Democratic party. >> and AOC has to deal with this all the. time as well. Bernie Sanders has to deal. with this all the time as well. There's. this like very different set of.

standards for people who are uh bold. advocates uh to to you know make. people's lives a little bit better than. it actually is. people who do believe in. that, people who are considered radical, I guess, for American politics, not so. radical for European politics. I mean, Bernie Sanders would be the average. politician in Norway, right? His attit. party in in some of these countries,

right? Or at least his output. But in. America, if you're uh advancing the. interest of Medicare for all, the. interest of the uh the people over. interests of corporations and profit, you're seen as this like crazy guy. A. lot of people have started referring to. you as the Joe Rogan of the left. How. How do you How do you feel about that? I. I mean, I have my opinions, but I want. to know cuz you're the person they're. speaking about, you know, what you think. about it. >> I mean, I think Joe Rogan is is a goon, but. >> a goon.

>> Yeah. >> What a funny word. He's He's kind of a. [laughter] dumbass, but not a word my. friend would use. >> Goon. That's not a goon. >> Yeah. Trevor would never say Joe. >> Trevor would say friend. >> Yeah. >> Uh confidant. Trusted confidant. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Ally. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Fellow bow hunter. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Elk. Elk. Elk hunt. Elk eating. Yes. Yes. >> Um Yeah. Yeah. I I mean I don't align.

with Joe Rogan on on virtually any. issue, especially as of late. >> No, no, no. But I think what they what. they mean is like. >> they're saying I'm like reaching out. >> They're saying you are. >> there there's this there's this school. of thought that says you are what. ironically. the Democrats said they needed after. Trump won even. >> Yeah. >> And then going into like Trump's second. term, >> Trump 2. >> Yeah. Trump two. I like sequels. They. went. >> they went like, "Oh, you know what? You. know what's lacking on the left? The. left doesn't have a Joe Rogan. The left.

doesn't have a manosphere. The left. doesn't have a space where there's. engaging hard discussion that isn't. doesn't have a veneer of CNN on it. Doesn't have the the lobbyist stench on. it. It needs and and then they said this. is the person. >> Hassan Per is the Joe Rogan of the left. And that that's what I mean is like how. do you how do you respond to that? >> So, uh, a couple things. When they were. doing that, they kept coming to me and. going, "You're the Joe Rogan of the. left." uh what do you think is the. problem with the party? And I kept. telling him, this is an issue that you.

can't podcast your way out of. Like this. is a problem. This is a crisis within. the ranks of the Democratic party. It's. a it's a messaging problem, but more. importantly, it's a policy problem, right? Having a a bunch of u you know. sponsored or or wellfunded liberal. content creators is probably good to. combat some of the misinformation if. they're you know focusing all their. efforts on on tackling, you know, the. the growth of uh right-wing independent. media that's still firmly committed to u. the the party apparatus as a part of its.

like propaganda machine. >> Um but you're not necessarily going to. win elections off of that alone. uh what. what needs to change is not the the. media ecosystem or the media. environment. What needs to change is the. party. >> Um one of the biggest issues with Kla. Harris was that um she was incapable of. defining herself with key policy. prescriptions that that people could. identify with. Uh and and instead she.

was defined by her opposition. That's. why the Kla Harris's for they them ad. worked. I guess if you ask the. Democratic Party consultants, not. because everyone was like viciously. transphobic and like primarily invested. in like punishing 1% of the American. population. Certainly there's some. people who wanted that, but it was. because of a lack of clear messaging on. key policy issues from the Kamla camp. that allowed the opposition to define.

her. Uh we have to fix that was my. argument. And I kept warning over and. over again leading up to the election. and certainly after the election. I I. kept talking about this all the time. They of course predictably did not. listen. They said, "No, you're the Joe. Rogan of the left." And then I was like, "Okay, all right, bet. Uh, sure. I'm. going to now also push forward. candidates that are bold, that are. actually invested in making material. changes that will improve people's. lives." Zoram Mani was one of them,

right? Uh and and then they went, "No, no, no. Not like that. We don't want. that actually at all. You're a. terrorist. Actually, hopefully. [laughter]. uh Trump, he's right here. This guy, get. him." That's what it turned into. We'll be right back after the short. break. All right, Eugene, let's play a little. game. You know, make something fun. Two. truths and a lie. >> Mhm. >> Here we go. One, I've had to tell a. world leader that their fly was undone.

Two, when getting dressed, I don't do. sock, sock, shoe, shoe. I do sock, shoe, sock, shoe. Three, I've been a Verizon. customer for 11 years. What do you. think? Very confused. First of all, why. would a world leader own a fly? Cuz. those things just come uninvited. Secondly, lying to your friends is not. cool. There's never been a game. >> No, Eugene. Fly is for like the zip is. what and then it's it's it's not a lie. It's a game where I'm trying it's like I.

give you information. Okay, I lied. All. three are true, Eugene. And in case you. were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't. as expensive as you think. In fact, if. you bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. And the. reason I've been with them for this long. is just because I travel so much. I need. a network that's reliable. That's right. A better deal on the best network with. the most ways to save on plans, streaming, and phone deals. Take your. AT&T or T-Mobile bill to your local.

Verizon store today. Get your better. deal and start saving for real. Based on. root metrics, best overall mobile. network performance, US second half. 2025. All rights reserved. You must. provide recent consumer mobile bill in. the name of the person redeeming the. deal. Additional terms, conditions, and. restrictions apply. So, [music] do you understand how two. truths and do you understand it now? >> I understand that you didn't have to lie. first before telling me that Verizon is. the best. >> No, I wasn't lying. Eugene, it's not a.

lie. I wouldn't lie to you. It's a. [music] game. Okay. I'm sorry. >> I lied. UH. [laughter]. [music]. there are there are a ton of articles. written about you as you're saying from. the left just about like how this guy's. the worst thing to happen to the. Democratic party and this guy is you are.

destabilizing what doesn't need to be. more destabilized. You are, you know, it's funny. I actually I actually want. to know what what you think. I'm torn on. the Kamala and Hillary thing because we. are unable to run multiple simulations. of our lives or at least like we don't. know if we can. We always say that. Hillary lost because of her messaging. blah blah blah. We say that Kla Harris. lost because of her messaging blah blah. blah blah blah. I sometimes think we. take for granted the fact that they were. both women. And I don't know how much.

you lose by being a woman running for. president. America has never had a woman. president. >> Radical misogynist. >> No, [laughter] you could. Cuz I'm don't. run women. >> This is how we get the clicks. This is. how No. What [laughter] I'm saying is. what I'm saying is this, right? >> Donald Trump lost an election. >> Who did he lose to? >> A man. >> No, no, stick with me on this. Right. >> An old man who had never beaten anyone. in any major election. Yeah. >> Office fight. [laughter] Yeah. Well, you.

don't know, man. >> Yeah, I agree. But you don't know. [laughter]. >> Apparently, he was what? >> You know, he did a lot for South. Africa's liberation. >> Who? Joe Biden. Yeah. Yeah. Fully. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> No, fully. Apparently, apparently like. back in the day, he was No, not really. >> No, he lied about getting arrested. though. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. He lied about that. And yes. No, he was actually anti-apartid. This is. true. >> Yes. Yes. which was a big step when a. lot of people were not. >> which was very strange because uh he was. also uh radically in opposition to.

desegregation in the United States of. America and and uh even at the same time. that he was like anti-apartid in South. Africa he literally was uh uh you know. co-sponsoring bills alongside. Thurman [laughter]. >> I'm trying so hard [laughter]. >> sleepy Well, but he was against a part. No. So, >> and also at the same time [laughter] he. was against South African apartide. He.

was very much in favor of Israel, which. again another contradiction. >> Yeah. But he you know what's interesting. about that? I don't know if you've ever. seen the the the the interviews of. Nelson Mandela when he comes to the. United States. >> just after he's been released from. prison. >> and he's like free. >> version of him that I call am. >> What's that? >> Angry Mandel. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. When he wasn't taking any. nonsense. wasn't taking any nonsense and. then they like ask him they go like so. Mr. man, you know, you're going to, you. know, you've we've got enemies with. Israel and why won't you team up with.

and he was like, the freedom of the. Palestinian people. And he goes in hard. and he's like, I will never support the. freedom. And they're like, but you're. our ally, you know. He's like, just. because your enemies are not my enemies. >> Yeah, >> your enemies I believe in the freedom. And he goes in hard and you can see. they're like, ah, my. >> was also about Chevara, too, cuz they. were like they were hitting him on Fidel. Castro in Cuba. And it's like, yeah, I. feel like you're you're oblivious to the. amount of effort and manpower uh. expended by the Cuban government at a.

time when like they didn't have too. much. um they had nothing and they spent. so much uh trying to liberate uh Africa. and and and of course there's going to. be some shared resentment against. Western colonialism and and why would. they betray. >> why would he turn around and betray. other people going through similar uh. plightes. >> Yeah. But what I was saying about just. so we're on the same page. >> is I sometimes wonder if I'm sure. there's a term for this. We will answer.

our question based on the result as. opposed to actually looking at what. happened because we can't know, right? So with Kla Harrison and and Hillary. Clinton, we'll say they lost because. >> but if Donald Trump had lost that first. election, we would have gone Hillary ran. the right campaign and of course Donald. Trump was going to lose. When Donald. Trump lost in 2020, it seemed obvious. like, well, of course he was going to. lose. Look at all the dumb things he was.

saying, drink bleach. Of course he's. going to lose. Then when he wins in the. next election, he didn't really change. anything. >> And then and then he wins in that one. And I honestly find myself I just I just. have to find I have to ask myself the. question. I have to go how many. percentage points come from people in. America who are just not willing to vote. for a woman? Just like how many people. out there go, >> I don't think because I would read this. and I would see people saying, >> I just don't think a woman can run the. country. I I'm all for women, >> but I just don't know that a woman can.

can be trusted to run the country. And. men and women alike saying this, by the. way, >> spread out over the country. >> What do you think? >> Even if it's three percentage points. No, bro. What do you mean? What do I. think? Can a woman run the country? >> Women run the country. >> Oh, my man. Anytime. >> Any day. >> Let me put it this way. I'm even going. to go a step further, my friend. I'm. even going to go a step further, my. friend. He's going a step further. [clears throat]. >> Let me let me say this, my man. In a. world where we have lived through. multiple world wars and famines. >> and civil wars and. >> in that world.

>> that's not the time to say can women do. this or not. Does that make sense? >> 100%. >> If our plane was. >> men ruined it already. >> I was saying if our plane was flying. with no turbulence, no crashes, no. disasters at all. If our airline as men. was running flawlessly, then I'd be. like, "Ah, ladies, ladies, take a back. seat. This is not the time for you to be. flying this thing. We got it. The fellas. got it. But I'm just saying the way the. fellas have been handling things. >> The fellas don't guard it. >> right now. How much are you paying for. gas? That's the fellas. I I don't see.

any women involved in those. negotiations, >> invasions. >> I'm just saying. I'm just So I'm not. saying the women would be better. I'm. not saying that. >> You're not saying they'll be better. >> I'm just saying that. >> they'll be okay. >> We should not act like the thing that is. happening now is the one. Wait, but. sending out one lady to go against many. fellas that are out there running. countries and starting wars and. conflicts. >> You know who was one of the most. effective that woman would you know who. was one of the most effective? >> Margaret Thatcher.

>> Angela Merkel. >> Oh god. >> Angela Merkel was one of the most. effective in that. Now she's not perfect. by any means, but I I still have I've. yet to meet a perfect president. I'm. going to put it out there. >> Yeah. I I am diametrically opposed to. all of these conversation. I say no. women. NO, I'M KIDDING. YOU'RE DAMN I. WAS LIKE THAT ONE THAT [laughter]. >> I I think. >> we got him. It's a. >> I I I go back to Barack Obama. I think. in the United States of America, uh.

hatred for women is definitely a real. thing. We live in a patriarchal society, >> but we also live in a very anti-lack. society. >> So when you're a young black man whose. middle name is Hussein. >> Yes. and you're running. >> Um, there's going to be hurdles that you. have to climb. >> Yes. >> And you can overcome those hurdles. >> My problem with Kla Harris was that she. recognized she understood that there. were hurdles. She's a black woman uh. running against a white supremacist.

>> uh like Donald Trump, >> but she didn't have the campaign and the. and the platform that would actually. convince people that this was someone to. vote for. >> I completely agree with you there. So, I. don't discount the notion that uh you. know, people who are not old white guys. are going to have a harder go at it. That's certainly true. But I think they. can overcome that with good policies. And if you want, you can have a old. white guy as well, Bernie Sanders. He. had the good policies.

>> People loved him. >> Yeah. >> I think in every poll, and I stand to be. corrected because there are many polls, I know this, >> but in most polls where he was up. against Trump, he won. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And Trump knew that too. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. Every time they they asked people. Bernie versus Trump, Bernie would win. >> Yeah. Now, people will say, "Oh, well, Hillary Clinton would have won in those. polls, too." Which is true. But I think. what the people were looking for at that. point and are still looking for really. was an anti-establishment candidate, someone because they came out with the.

recognition that the system wasn't. working for them, right? in all of the. different parts of the country that are. forgotten, whether it's West Virginia or. Gary, Indiana. >> Yeah. >> Um there are a lot of people who are. suffering and it felt like neither the. establishment Republicans nor the. establishment Democrats were actually. focusing on their their economic. hardships. They only offered sometimes. lip service to it, but never any like. bold radical changes. So when Trump. comes in like a wrecking ball and and. ritualistically humiliates the.

establishment Republicans and is seen as. like a heterodox Republican uh who. ironically enough in 2016 was actually. running as a moderate. A lot of people. forget this. He was protrans in 2016. >> He was anti-war. He was about guns. He. was like. >> there's too many of them to be honest. >> He didn't say it like that. >> Okay. The way he say he was like and I. mean my sons love them. They love the. guns. They got to be honest, I'm a. little uncomfortable. A little. uncomfortable with how many they have. But I mean, what are you going to do? I.

mean, we leave it up to the States. But. if I if I had my way, we'd have a few. fewer of them. But I mean, we'll see. We'll see. [laughter]. >> That's how he said it. >> Yeah. >> Clip that one. >> Yeah. >> He knows he knows how to do it really. well because they talk, [laughter]. >> you know. >> They're always talking. Yeah. >> They're always conversing. >> Oh, man. But you see, when whenever I. listen to how Trevor views American. politics and I obviously watch some of. your content and I hear you speaking. from an outsers's point of view, I think.

to myself, >> you're like, why is Trevor not more like. Hassan? >> Exactly. [laughter]. >> That's what I think. >> I'm like, when we look outside, whenever. we hear America doing something to. another country, it's because apparently. that country's leader does not respect. democracy. Yeah. Yeah. >> I go surely you guys voted for this. situation and you spend 8 hours a day. every day talking about this kind of.

stuff. You are arguably in the cold face. of what people really want and you get. to hear unfiltered what people want. So. from an outsider, isn't that what. America voted for? And for you being in. there, what do people want now? >> [snorts]. >> I think most people uh don't really know. what they want and there is a very. sophisticated influence pedalling. operation that is actively subverting. democracy. So it's not a secret it's not. a secret that uh Americans are not the. most educated. They don't have a lot of.

political education. They don't have a. profound understanding of of history. Um. and I think that's by design as well. I. mean our our institutions are crippled. Public education, public schooling in. general. And I think that's deliberate, especially since the Reagan era. Um, but. outside of that, most people are just. kind of operating off of vibes. Most. people are not voting. The plurality is. usually not voting, right? >> But out of the people that are voting, and there's a multitude of factors for. that, there's the electoral college and.

and uh the fact that you vote not on a, you know, federal holiday, but on a work. day, on a Tuesday. That's these are. >> hurdles, >> specific hurdles designed to stop. certain people from voting. [snorts] And. so most people need a buyin. They they. they need something to motivate them to. go out and vote. And if the Democratic. party's uh motus operandi is to say, "Look, the other side is so much worse. than us. Come on, just vote for us. Who. are we going to vote for? Nobody? Come. on." And then most people go, "All. right, bet. I'll vote for nobody.

Neither party is representing my. interests, >> and I don't really care. It doesn't. really matter. I have to go back to work. every morning. I have to focus on my. life. I have to go deliver Uber. Uh why. do I care about whether it's a Democrat. or a Republican ruining my life? But. most people rate the party as the. National Democratic Party and the. National Republican Party and they look. at the output and and they grade the. National Democratic Party off of its. weakest uh individuals, off of its. weakest members. There's a concept.

called the rotating villain within the. Democratic party's infrastructure where. there's always a vote that will spoil a. radical agenda that a Democrat runs on. This happened with Joe Biden. It was Joe. Mansion and Kirstston Cinema that uh. that undermined Build Back Better the. IRA and and watered it down. tremendously. >> Is this a formal thing you're saying or. or you saying it just you notice? That's. what we that's what we call it in I. guess polyai and that's what you know. that's what people. >> so it's one person one person within the.

Democratic party. >> not one usually it's a there's always a. a. >> depending if there's six people. >> okay but they are the rotating so they. go like okay you guys are going to be. the villains for this run. >> you're going to vote against everything. that is progressive that the people want. but then we all get to say we voted for. it and then you guys get you'll be the. bad guys for this run and just make sure. it doesn't happen. >> like outbound uh. outbound Congress persons that are not. running for reelection that are retiring. like Jared Golden is one of those guys. right now and he he was the lone voice.

that voted against the war powers. resolution. >> Huh. >> And there's always a guy Joe Lieberman. under the Barack Obama coalition was the. sole vote that stopped the public option. from being advanced which would have. been radical change in this country. >> Is this happening on the Republican side. as well as much? No, the Republicans are. uh the Republicans, I think, are much. better at at whipping votes uh because. they're they're not necessarily because. they're more organized, but because they. can be open about being procorporation.

Like that's their whole thing. Whereas. the Democrats on the other hand run. against corporations, but when they're. but when they're legislating, they still. have to be very cognizant of the the uh. corporate investors, the real. benefactors, the corporate benefactors. And any Democratic Party initiative that. they advance will actually harm one. sector's uh uh investment or one. sector's uh interest in profit. >> So they can't really do that. So, do you.

think. >> because if they were to advance Medicare. for all, let's take that for uh uh one. policy that is unbelievably popular. Every other OECD nation has one form of. socialized healthcare except for us. >> Um there's uh reporting on this. I. believe it's up to 48,000 people every. year that die because they don't have. access to healthareous. >> in the wealthiest nation on the planet. Like they uh they could just go to the. they could go to their primary care. physicians and like figure out what's. wrong with them ahead of time or, you. know, get the necessary help. >> Yeah. I mean, it's a Yale study. I think.

the numbers might even be higher than. that. I I find it unbelievable as well. This is just ridiculous number, right? So, um, people want this. Why don't the. Democrats advocate for it? Why do the. Democrats actually actively push back. against it as Joe Biden did in the 2020. primaries? In the 2019 primaries, when. Bernie was the Medicare for all. candidate, Joe Biden came out, he's. like, "Oh, I want the public option.". Jack never talked about it again, by the. way, by the way. That's a great job by. >> the Jack at the end.

>> That was a great job by. >> that was actually good that. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Yeah. It's cuz me and him talk on the. phone. >> Yeah. But [laughter]. he he ran in opposition to Medicare for. all and and he didn't have any. investment in actually pushing for the. public option at all. He never talked. about it once he actually became the. candidate. He stopped talking about the. public option altogether. He never. brought it up. Um he never pushed for. it. that was designed specifically to. tackle Medicare for all and its.

popularity. [snorts] And the reason why. the Democrats do this is because Etna, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and all of these. forprofit healthc care providers are. massive investors in the Democratic. party. >> They fund they fund raise for all these. candidates. So, of course, they don't. care about the population like the. politicians that win their raises. They. don't care about, you know, fixing this. massive crisis in this country. >> They care about managing the crisis and.

they care about doing PR for the crisis. and they care about winning re-election. and maintaining the current system no. matter how cruel it is. And that's just. how it works. Uh, so that's also part of. the reason why I go back to how. frustrated a lot of these think tanks. are about me and have been written ex. writing extensively about the dangers. that I present. Yeah. for the Democratic. party because now I've uh I've moved on. from just talking about how [ __ ] the. Democrats are to actually working with.

other uh you know on the ground groups. and organizations like the Democratic. Socialist of America and numerous other. orgs. >> to actually run candidates that are pro. Medicare for all that are uncompromising. on the issue of Israel where they're. like I'm an anti-ionist why are we. giving unlimited bombs to this country. that's doing war crimes that's doing a. genocide and that's a very frustrating. reality for the Dem Democrats because. the more Zoram mumanis that they see all. around the country pop up and the more. grassroots momentum that these people.

have, the more people are going to look. at that and go, "Wait a minute. You said. Zoron was going to be incompetent. You. said he was going to be a scary commie.". >> Yep. And yet the budget is balanced. >> Yeah. Budget's balanced. He's one of the. best mayors that New York has had. Uh it. just every time I come here it feels. like I'm I'm I'm entering an alternative. universe where like things are working. somehow. It's ridiculous. Like we're. watching from afar uh a totally. different reality in New York City, totally different vibes. Um why can't we.

have that? And once people start asking. that question, once people start. believing that the government can help. and the government should help. >> Yes. Once they have more confidence in. good governance and once they associate. that confidence with democratic. socialism, socialism, communism, um all. of a sudden people are going to want. that. And we've seen that in the polls. as well. We've seen that in the. membership with the DSA uh which crossed. the threshold of 100,000 paid members. It's a very significant uh number. Uh.

and we've certainly seen that with uh. the approval ratings for democratic. socialism in general. uh where I believe. it's like uh in certain polls it's like. the uh either the plurality or the. majority of Democrats uh say they have. sympathies for democratic socialism or. even self-identify around like 44%. selfidentify as democratic socialist. within the Democratic party. So when you. look at the young people in those worlds. then specifically because I'm assuming. your audience skews young just because. of streaming. This is an assumption that. I have like on that platform. specifically.

>> Definitely. >> cuz I know on YouTube you've got a. different viewership, you know, you're. on Instagram, etc., etc. But. >> what do you think the Democratic. establishment is missing about how young. people are viewing all of this right. now? Because you you you you're speaking. to young people and young people are. watching you in a very specific way. What are they missing that? What are. they missing that the Republicans don't. seem to be missing? I should say because. on the Republican side, it seems like. they've got their young men on lock. >> Yeah. Well, they have a different cris. or a similar crisis on the Republican.

side as well for youth vote and youth. turnout. >> Oh, share. Share. >> And it's actually Israel. >> cuz uh. >> that has become the lightning rod. >> Yeah. Uh I believe it's 54%. of Republicans under the age of 55 have. a negative opinion of Israel. That is a. crisis. >> Yeah. >> For the state. That is a crisis for the. Republican party that wants to maintain. unlimited loyalty to Israel and that's. certainly a crisis for Israel in general. that cannot exist especially in the. violent ways that it currently does in. the maintenance of an apartheid in and.

constant territorial expansion without. unlimited support from the United States. of America and the rest of the western. world uh and and without the political. cover that America offers as the. hegeimon. So that's a huge problem. If. they lose the Republicans, it's over. Okay, Israel's done. Um, >> that's going to be clipped. What you. mean is the way it's currently worse. than. >> the way it's currently existing. You. know, clips, bro. This guy's clipping. >> Clip that one. >> Clip clip that one. >> Clip him. Clip him saying clip. Don't. clip. Clip clip. Clip him. Saying clip.

clip yourself. Clipping that. Clip clip. Clip [laughter] clip. >> I I have said way worse things about. Israel than that. Trust me. Uh, and it. drives people crazy. It drives like the. the pro-Israel advocacy groups crazy. where they're like why won't people why. won't people see that he's a dangerous. radical terrorist like I go to the. Vanity Fair Oscars PARTY AND THEY'RE. LIKE WHY IS [laughter] HE ALLOWED TO BE. THERE AND HE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED IN. mainstream circles like it's like. Jonathan Greenb [laughter] Greenblat uh. and his bald head being like it SHOULD. HAVE BEEN ME AT THE VANITY FAIR.

YEAH, it's so funny. Oh man. Yeah. Okay. So So you think on the Okay. Okay. So, on the right, that's the lightning rod. >> That's the lightning rod for sure. >> On the left, what is shifting? Why are. we seeing a Zoron? Why are we seeing. election results like we're seeing? Cuz. I mean, there's there's a few that we're. seeing now where it looks like there's a. shift that's happening. >> Mhm. >> Do you think it's a Do you think it's a. ripple or do you think it's going to be. a wave? >> Um, I think it's going to be a wave. I. mean, they're trying to stop it for. sure. They are doing everything they can.

to stop this momentum to stop this uh. this insurgent campaigning that's taking. place all around the country right now. >> How how do you think the messaging has. or what do you think is going right in. the messaging? Because. a few years ago when you said the word. socialist in any way, the first thing. most Americans would say is those are. the people who come and take your money. You can't own anything. Uh you can't. work towards anything. there's no point. in having a job, you can't build wealth,

you can't blah blah blah blah blah blah. That used to be. >> almost across the board what people. would say right. >> now to your point whether it's polling, whether it's online conversations where. it seems like people are shifting, >> but there's there's two interesting. sides to it. There's one where people. are going that's not what socialism is. or democratic socialism. >> and then there's another side going let. them take all the money and let them you. know where they're going I I still think. it's that but I'm actually happy. I want. them to take everything away and they. want them to. >> So like what do you think is resonating.

about that message specifically? >> I think it's the it's the. contradictions. They're worsening and. they're becoming more apparent and. people are cognizant of the reality that. they experience pain and they. understandably blame the system for it. So they go this is not working for me. I. need an alternative and this alternative. seems fine. I mean, I'm I'm willing to. try this out even in a country as. propagandized at the heart of empire, the country that won the Cold War. Uh.

the country that is the the uh defender. of the ultimate defender of capitalism. uh has has destroyed the living. standards of its own citizens to such a. degree that they go, you know, I I don't. believe the red scare propaganda. actually or even if I do believe it, I. like it. like you said. >> Yeah. >> Um. >> that's because people are suffering and. they they want an alternative and and in. some ways. >> that's what Donald Trump did in both. 2016. >> and then when those wounds were not. healed or addressed after four years of.

Biden and the only thing people remember. from the Biden uh administration was uh. uh negative real wage growth for one and. a half years. uh as a lot of these. economists and they're still doing this. by the way kept saying well this is a. vibe session actually things are great. uh on the economy front what are you. guys complaining about I mean I have. >> where do you get these terms vibe. session you're making us sound old. >> no that's what they said that's what. they said yeah because what they said. was it's really interesting how they how. they phrase this right what they try and.

do is especially the people who run like. media in the biggest way what they do is. >> they'll try and tell you as people on. the ground that what you're experiencing. is not real. >> Yeah. >> You these are your feelings. >> The economy is doing better than ever. >> You have no idea what we're doing in the. background. >> Yeah. But working towards. >> No, but they even go like your life is. better. Even though you don't think your. life is better, your life is better. >> But what's what's really sinister? It's. Exactly. It's gaslighting and it's. sinister. You know why? >> Because they talk about the economy like.

everyone is an equal participant in it. No, >> that's that's one of the smartest things. they do is they talk about the econ, look at the GDP, look at the economy, the stock market has never been better, but it's like guys, >> if Jeff Bezos gets into a bus with all. of us, >> the GDP of that bus has gone up. dramatically. Like the value of that bus. has gone up, >> but you know, we. >> do not have that money. >> Yeah. >> You can say this bus is doing well and.

that is technically true. But if one. person gets off that bus, the bus is. broke now. >> Yeah. >> And the ones that are in the bus are. benefiting. >> But now, no, they're not they're not. even benefiting. That's that's no. because the people the people in the in. the country are in the bus, right? And. they're going, "You're doing well. Look. how much money is in this bus." And. people are like, "Yeah, but it cost me. 30% more to go and buy ground beef. before I go do a barbecue. It's costing. me like 20 30% more for my gas. It's. costing me 20 30% more. My wages are not. keeping up. Yeah,

>> my cost of living is going up, >> but apparently. >> But apparently the country is like the. country, yes, the bus is technically. doing well. >> Yes. >> Because of a few passengers who are. doing well. >> Yes. >> But the passengers. >> not doing well. >> are not actually doing well. And so that. to your point, it becomes like this this. gaslighting feeling where they go, no, no, they can't econom. >> I love that word. >> It's not a recession. The numbers are. not bad. your vibes are bad. You need to.

change yourself. >> Yeah. And that was obviously Yeah. That. was incredibly frustrating for people to. see. >> It's one of the things I brought up in. the leadup to the 2024 election over and. over again where it was like, well, the. economy is rebounding, which is true. It. was, right? Um, but what I kept. repeatedly explaining to people or. trying to was, well, in 2016, Trump won. and the economy was seemingly on a much. more positive trajectory than it was in. 2024. And it clearly people were. suffering enough back then that they. thought I'm gonna vote for this crazy. guy, right? And they don't read it as.

that. They think, "Oh, it's got to be. all these different reasons." And. sometimes those different reasons are. true. You know, white supremacy is. powerful force. Obviously, misogyny is a. powerful force. But but at the end of. the day, those hurdles are climbable. those hurdles can be uh destroyed if you. have a candidate that can communicate. honestly and and come across as earnest. uh in defense of the people over the. interest of corporations. >> Yeah, that's that's probably the biggest. thing I've noticed and I think people. are noticing on mass.

whether you are for or against the. Republican party. I mean now really it's. the Donald Trump party cuz it's it's not. it's not what it was as a machine. before. It is the Donald Trump party. Yeah, >> it does what it says in many ways. Now, there's many things where it doesn't, but it like so, you know, they go like, "Oh, but he didn't build a wall." It's. like, "Yeah, but he sort of did. >> He didn't build the physical wall, >> but he built a wall if you're honest.". If you look at like the visas, the bans, how few people actually can come into. America now, how few people can get. jobs, deport. He He built the wall. You.

know, you go like, "Oh, no. I'm going to. shut this down. I'm He did trade wars, etc., etc." He's sort of doing the. thing. Whether it's good for the country. or not is a separate conversation. because I mean you look at your bank. balance and ask yourself right not you. not but then on the other side. >> it feels like the Democrats Donald Trump. comes in and opens up a toolbox of. government. >> and then the Democrats come in and they. go ah we we don't we don't really have. any tools and it's like that guy's got.

hammers he's got screwdrivers he's got. he can build or dismantle anything and. then every time the Democrats get power. they. Yeah, let's just keep it the way it is. and let's be grateful that it still. exists. >> or let's balance the budget and it's. like it's always it's never something. radical. It's never something that's. going to. >> radically change people's lives. Exactly. >> Um and even when they do actually uh. make necessary changes like the ACA was. a a profound achievement altogether. It. wasn't bold enough. It wasn't brave. enough. The public option should have.

been passed as well. Um but even then in. the process of of passing the uh the. Affordable Care Act, Republicans never. were going to caucus with the Democrats. on this issue and they attacked it over. and over again and they took advantage. of the gridlock that they were creating. where the Democrats could have just. advanced it. >> They could have just they had the. numbers. They could have advanced. They. could have been like [ __ ] off, right? But they allowed this gridlock to take. place where Republicans used that that. time on the clock where they were. running out the clock, which gridlock is.

something that most Americans hate. Donald Trump doesn't ever do that. Have. you noticed? No, we're doing this and. I'm going to do an executive order if. necessary. >> Have to work backwards. >> Yeah. So, so um obviously uh there was a. reluctance to to you know break things. uh with um uh this this rapid uh. successive attacks against the. Republicans. They didn't do that. Um but. in that process, the Republicans had an. opportunity to lie about what the ACA.

was. They said there it was death. panels. >> Death panels. >> Yeah. They said um obviously one of the. most radical uh propositions in the. Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, was uh. the the uh uh provision that insurance. companies, private healthcare providers, would no longer be able to deny coverage. to people for pre-existing conditions. Now, that is such an inhumane concept. and it's so insane because we live in. the post Obamacare world where. healthcare companies can't do that that.

people don't believe that that was the. norm and people don't believe that. Republicans, some of which are still in. office, were actively advocating against. that. >> Yeah. >> It's such a it's such an inhumane thing. It's a normal part of Republican policym. that that most Republicans there's a. poll on this. Republican voters don't. believe the actual impact of the. Republican legislative agenda when. they're asked about it where they'll. they go, "Okay, uh, you want to vote for.

Republicans? Republicans are against. abortion. Abortion is murder." They're. like, "Yes, I'm against abortion. Abortion is murder." So when they. actually are faced with the impact and. we saw this happen in the leadup to the. 2024 election when they recognize, oh my. god, uh if we, you know, ban abortions, then my daughter might not be able to. get a an emergency uh abortion to take. care of an ectopic pregnancy. This is. now a real crisis, a real healthcare. crisis. They changed their tune real. quick. Um, so they don't even believe. how violent their legislative agenda is.

that they're pushing, that they're uh. that they're advancing, the Republican. voters. Um, and and that is a real. problem. The other problem is it's much. easier to break things, especially if. you are uh directionally on the side of. capital. If you're a capitalist, if. you're openly on the side of. corporations, as Republicans are, it's. much easier to move in that direction. Uh Democrats on the other hand have a. base that is in some ways maybe not a. card carrying communist or whatever but.

like anti- capitalist in certain uh. instances like they are against uh. profit seeking from corporations. If you. want regulations uh like environmental. uh regulations to to protect certain uh. u you know natural resources like the. water supply, all of a sudden you're. harming uh the the profits of DuPont, right? DuPont just wants to dump. chemicals and and you know, whatever. they want off of their factories. directly into the water supply and. dilute the water supply with uh toxic.

pollutants. >> That's very profitable for them to do. So now the Democrats all of a sudden. have to punish DuPont. Republicans never. have to do that. Republicans are never. going to punish DuPont. They're they. say, "No, it's great." Uh they say, "Oh, >> they say it'll figure itself out most of. the time. >> It'll figure itself out." Or they do. this thing where they're like, "Transgender people." And then they walk. the other direction, right? Like they'll. be like, "Oh, DuPont Chemical. Okay. Have you thought about trans people. existing? Isn't that weird and [ __ ]. up?" And then everyone's like, "Yeah, actually that's right. Transgender.

people do exist." And I [ __ ] hate. that. >> You could, the smartest thing you can do. to distract [clears throat] people from. a real issue is to bring up an issue. that doesn't actually affect their real. lives, their daily lives, >> but is easier to grasp and and dispute. or argue. >> because it's just it's just. >> what is the chem how much should a. company be able to dispose or where. should they dispose or how should they. what are the classes of different. chemicals and how far is a river from a. residential place and what is toxicity? How do we measure toxicity? Has anyone.

died from it? Yeah. When do we measure. the death or is it related? Is it a. cause? Is all of these things are. difficult. You know what's easy? >> Going is this person a man or woman and. should they be in my bathroom? That's. like an easy thing. But it feels like. and this this is actually why I want to. get back to it from like your side. >> The political side, >> you know, for lack of a better term, it. feels like it's it's metastasized in. America. But the world you're in feels. like it's fledgling. It feels like.

something's changing. It feels like. something is growing. >> Mhm. >> Like I want to I want to tap into that. world and understand a little bit more. about it. Like like why streaming? You. you you could have done anything else. online, >> but why streaming in particular? >> Um well, when I started uh streaming, I. feel like it was different overall. We. didn't have the clavviculars of the. world, right? I mean, there were. different versions of that even before. my time, but they were nowhere near as.

popular. It hadn't reached like mass. popularity. I think it was Ninja that. like did the Drake collab of Fortnite, and that's when people were like, "Whoa, what is this? What is this sector? What. is going on here?" And and people. started paying attention to it. >> Um, but at that point, most people were. just playing video games. >> I came in and I was like, I'm not going. to play video games. I'm not very good. at video games. I mean, I I did play. video games initially, but I was like, I. want to do political commentary while I. play video games. and then stop playing. video games altogether and just do. political commentary. So that was my. evolution and the reason why I did that.

>> What games were you playing when you. started? >> Fortnite. >> Oh, okay. >> And then you know horror games that. people love. >> I was playing hunger games. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> I didn't know what you would like. >> No. Okay. So for So you were you a. gamer? >> Yeah. And I still play video games when. I have time. Um sometimes. >> when do you have time? We watch you on. eight hours a day. >> Well, no. No. play on I I play on stream. or sometimes. >> Okay. So, you still play on stream? >> Yeah, I still every now and then play on. play games on stream, >> but uh nowhere near to the same degree I.

used to because at the time I was uh at. the Young Turks. I wanted a place. >> uh a community of my own. I didn't want. to just like work for someone. I was. like, I should have something on the. side for myself, like something more. creative. And I also wanted to practice. off-the- cuff speech because everything. that I had done prior to that was all. presscripted. I would write my own. scripts. I would turn them into articles. for Huffington Post. Um, I was doing. that and I was getting better at it, but. I was really bad at uh, off-the-cuff. commentary.

And I guess, you know, it's been eight. years now. It probably worked. Is I. never seemed to shut the [ __ ] up. >> Weren't you worried about like making. mistakes? Weren't you worried or was or. do you embrace that in the, you know, because it's live. It's it's happening. in the moments. >> Yeah. No, it was definitely harrowing at. first. It was definitely terrifying. Um, >> like pulling up a stat for instance. you. know, if you're wrong, you go 40% of and. it's like, oh, it was actually 20% and. it's it's not that and it was actually. people under the age of 50, not people. under the age of 15 and people, you know.

what I mean? >> Mhm. Yeah, that happens from time to. time, but it's okay. I mean, I'm a human. being and uh when that does happen, I. correct it. Usually chat is also very on. it where they'll be like, "Oh, you got. the stat wrong.". >> Uh so there is definitely that. Um but I. I have uh completely uh dropped that. fear. You can't have that fear if you're. going to be a live broadcaster, a Twitch. streamer. >> And And when you when you're doing this, how do you how do you strike the balance. between. inflaming tensions and inspiring and.

mobilizing people? >> Um, I mean, you got to do a bit of both. I think that's a that's a real problem. with the Democratic party is that they. don't identify enemies. They try to get. along with everybody else in their. commentary. And I think it's good to. just say like, "No, billionaires are. bad." You know, sometimes they could be. eh all right, like Styer is probably one. of the better candidates in the. California governor's race, but um you. know, Democrats are are are too afraid. to identify who is actually uh creating. problems in society that many workers.

can feel. So then do you think do you. think things are as bad as they are in. America because the Republicans govern. the way they govern or do you think it's. gotten that way because Democrats are so. feckless that Republicans can't govern? >> I don't even think it's the duopoly. I. think the duopoly is is a normal part of. the process. I look I'm a socialist. I I. think it's capitalism. I think that is. the real. >> you think that's the fundamental issue. >> Oh 100%. I think that like at its root.

we have two liberal parties. One is. actually now turning into an illiberal. party. One is turning into a fascist. party. As. >> as fascism rose a 100 years ago when. liberalism was failing, right? Uh. liberalism is in crisis. liberal. capitalist democracy is not working for. a lot of people and they're looking for. alternatives and reactionaries are. taking advantage of that crisis by uh uh. reasserting dominance and control in the. same exact way that Adolf Hitler did, same exact way that Mussolini did when. fascism was first being implemented in.

Europe uh as this revolutionary movement. that would counter the nefarious forces. of socialism, communism and trade. unionism because that if if uh if left. to their own devices, if they were. successful would truly disrupt the the. hierarchy of capital and that's why. these movements these fashion movements. were able to go to small businesses. petite bourgeoa and also big businesses. uh and and you know these industrialist. uh uh capitalist and and gain a lot of.

allegiances from these groups and they. were able to get liberals to concede as. well uh and and that's how they. reasserted dominance. So, I hear what. you're saying, but I I think some people. might hear that and go, "So, are you. saying that we then go to communism?". And I don't think that's what you're. saying, if I hear you correctly. >> I mean, I look, I I say I'm not a. communist, but people call me that. And. I don't have any problems with. communism. I think it's a is a decent. end point. Uh, you know, classless, moneyless, uh, borderless society. It's. Star Trek universe. Uh, whenever I say.

that, people go, "How could he how could. he even mention this?" But I feel like. if you if you think about it, like I. don't think that's a bad way to live. if. it if it was implemented you. So this is. this is where um I struggle with it as I. go. We often times will judge a system. based on the examples that we have of it. >> even if those examples are not accurate. Does that make sense? So when so. >> yeah there's been there's been many. attempts and and a lot of that has led. to failure for a multitude of different.

reasons. There's. >> sabotage being one of the biggest. Sometimes we have to we always have to. acknowledge the interference because. when people will talk about capitalism, >> they will always espouse its like a. students. Oh, but look at this and look. at this. And that is correct. >> But when people will talk about. socialism, you know, communism may be. more is is a harder one because I I have. yet to see an example of communism that. wasn't interfered with or sabotage. So I. don't I don't know personally. Well, but. even in spite of that sabotage, there's.

one successful example of or a couple. successful examples of countries that. are run by communist parties. Yeah. >> Um it's obviously not uh at its end. stage or anything like that, but China. is is run by a communist party. Vietnam, >> uh Cuba also run by a communist party. Now, obviously there's varying degrees. of successes here and varying degrees of. failure. Successes in comparison to like. their starting point, right? or uh at. their in their heyday, right? Like the. Cuban uh the Cuban revolution was.

unbelievably successful and that's. precisely the reason why the American. government sought to punish them. endlessly and they were only able to. survive throughout that process because. the USSR came in and was like, "We're. going to put our nukes here.". >> Did you get a subpoena about. >> uh I have not received it yet. I only. heard about uh a subpoena being. delivered to me from Fox News, but. >> Wait, what? >> But I haven't gotten it. No, you can't. be serious. So, you haven't received. anything. >> No, >> but all the news is saying that you have. received something.

>> It goes beyond that. They are claiming. that I'm a subversive. Uh I am a foreign. agent that hasn't registered with Farah. Uh and it's really funny because like. like I I'm pretty open about my. ideology. like I'm I'm a socialist and I. think we should not kill the the Cuban. population. I we've been starving them. for 60 years. I think it's unbelievable. It's heinous of war crime. Uh and we. should stop that. And then they go, "Oh,

he must be getting paid by the Cuban. government to say this." And it's really. funny cuz it's like they with what. money? They're broke. They have no. money. >> Cigars. >> Like they don't have anything. >> I mean, I guess they have cigars. I. don't know. I I didn't even I didn't. even get to uh experience that when I. was there. But. >> how long were you there for? >> I was there for two days and I just you. backto-back interviews. We were there on. a humanitarian aid mission with. progressive international copink and and. you know with like 600 delegates uh. politicians Corbin was there numerous.

other people uh and journalists as well. And I got a journalism visa on top of. the humanitarian aid mission that we. were uh accomplishing. Uh so it's doubly. messed up that the admin is is coming. after me. Yeah, because you see the. story even now the way you told it, the. story doesn't it makes it seem like you. >> and one other person went to Cuba. >> because you were paid by an organization. there. The two of you only two people. Benjamin the founder of Copen just the. two of you. You went there and then you.

conspired with state sponsored mission. and they were like, "Hey man, here's. some money Hassan. We need you to do. this to America." And then you were. like, "All right, I'm heading back now.". Remember when earlier we were talking. about how they were like, "Oh, have you. ever communicated with like a member of. Hamas or anything like that?" So, Cuba. is technically considered a state. sponsor of terror, >> but of course I've communicated with. members of the the Cuban government. I. interviewed them on camera. Carlos Kosio. is literally the vice foreign minister. and I interviewed him for my.

documentary. So, it's not only not. illegal, but it's been out there for. months. So they're like, "Oh, but but. what if that's what if we decided that. that was illegal?" You know, that a lot. of this conversation revolves around. people's stupidity and people's lack of. understanding of how things work where. they'll describe this is something I. talk about with conservatives all the. time. They describe something uh as. though it's nefarious. They do this all. the time. They rely on people's lack of. uh understanding of of complex subjects. or even sometimes simple subjects where. uh one example I always use is is.

transgender surgeries. They describe. this process as like gruesome mutilation. where they're like, "Oh, they doctors. come in with a hacksaw and like they cut. off body parts and all this stuff." And. it's like, "Yeah, that's just every type. of surgery." You're just describing. like, can you [laughter] imagine if you. were like, "Well, open heart surgery. They come in with a hammer and a pick. and they just like open up your chest. >> and they have like a what do they the. jaws of life? They like rip your your. rip jaw. They split you in two and they. Yeah. >> Yeah. They cut you up. Imagine if you. were like, I hate open heart surgery.

because it scares me. It's like we no. one should be able to get an open heart. surgery. It scares me. But that's how. Republicans operate on a lot of issues. And that's kind of what they're doing. right now with the story. Um, not only. did this subpoena not even arrive, let's. say it's happening, right? And I've. described it on in great detail to my. audience. I've talked about my. experiences in Cuba, I did a documentary. on it, all this stuff, right? They'll. take pieces of my commentary and be. like, "He's leaking all the secrets. he's leaking the the the pay structure.

that exists and it's like no that's not. everything that I'm mentioning is like. publicly available information that you. can find on Wikipedia. But because. people are so stupid and and they're so. ready to to think that this is some sort. of like sinister operation, they go, "Oh. my god, he's already turned, you know, state witness. He's like snitching. Oh, he's so stupid for snitching before he. even talks to his lawyers. What an. idiot." And it's like, or maybe nothing. that I'm saying is illegal. Have you.

thought about that? >> But I think we live in a world now where. the accusation is more powerful than the. than the prosecution. >> Oh, yeah. >> The prosecutions don't matter anymore. If you if you think about it in the. world we live in cuz. >> the the the swell of what happens on in. media and online is so big. >> It used to be the same with a newspaper. front page. >> Mhm. this person has done this many. months later retraction. Actually, they. didn't. Or a small little article in the.

corner. Now, in that world, it was bad. enough because it was front page versus. page four slight retraction or just an. update on the story. >> Now, it's the whole internet. >> Yeah. >> It's Tik Tok, it's Instagram, it's. Facebook, it's, you know, Google search. results, web pages, etc., etc., etc., etc. >> Massive. Massive. And it just gets like. Yeah. it just gets amplified and blown. up and amplified and blown up. >> By the time. >> it's verified, it's finished really.

>> And there's also a lot of uh uh like. biases that people have where they. constantly are seeking out confirmation. bias. Yeah. >> And and they they want to confirm their. priors no matter what. So like I'll give. you one example. One of the most common. things that I receive from people is uh. criticisms that I receive from people is. like, "Oh, you're a socialist but you're. wealthy." Right? And it's true. I am. very successful. I'm very fortunate. Right? Um but it's not at odds with my. worldview in any way, shape, or form. It's at odds with how you perceive my.

worldview. Right? I mean, it was Dong. Xiaoing who said socialism isn't a uh is. it about poverty to be richest to be. glorious. It's misattributed to him, but. he never corrected the record. He said. something similar to that. But um but at. the end of the day, like I want everyone. to have autonomy. I want everyone to to. be able to live comfortable lives. Like. that's what I'm advancing. That's what. I'm advocating for. That's my perfect. society. It's not about everyone being. like equally poor or starving. You made. that up. I never said that that's what I. wanted. Who would want that? Right? And. yet, because of this like uh.

pre-established notion that socialism is. supposed to be a poverty cult, they. constantly advance this narrative. And. in order to make this narrative stick, they'll be like, "Oh, he's a nepotism. recipient." Which is true. I I am a. nepotism recipient. I worked for my. uncle's uh YouTube show. Not exactly. CNN, right? It was a 26 person YouTube. show. >> Burn uncle. I mean, but it's true. It. was a 26 I was a 26th employee on a. >> uncle's like, "Come on. >> Come on. You deserve that." [laughter]. But it was a I was a 26th employee on a. YouTube show, right, called The Young.

Turks. Um, it definitely helped. And I. always will recognize that. But then. they'll expand on it and they'll be. like, "Well, his father is really. wealthy." It's not true. I take care of. my parents and I'm very fortunate to be. able to do that. It's my duty and I love. that and I love them. Um, but because. there's no evidence of this, uh, the. idea that like my father is this like. multi-billionaire, which they claim, they've just generated evidence through. AI articles. >> So now when you look at the SEO, >> if you're stupid enough not to check or.

cross reference this stuff, there's. articles out there from like Hindustan. Times. There's like uh, Hassan Piker's. father is a billionaire. >> That's incredible source. >> And it's really funny. >> It's on the Hindustan Times. >> I've read everything on the Hindustan. Times. Ah, but it's really interesting. because it's like if if my father was a. billionaire, >> he would be the third wealthiest person. in Turkey. Like that would be on a list. [laughter]. Like you would know about it. It would. be publicly available information. It's. it's so ridiculous. But yet they still.

advance it because they're so desperate. to to confirm their priors and to. justify their worldview because they. never want to think about the message. Don't press anything. We've got more. what now after this. This message is a paid partnership with. Apple [music] Card. Imagine this. You're. at a checkout counter. You're ready to. pay when you realize you don't have your. wallet. D. You could drive all the way back home. and you could get it, but you remember.

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ordering videos online. Just videos. They were just videos. What kind of. videos? That's not the point. >> Sure. The point is, I knew that I didn't. want to order those videos anymore cuz. I'd spent too much money on it. It was. videos on how to not spend money online. I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my. money on, and I was able to change my. spending habits, and you can do it, too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every. purchase with my Apple Card. That's. [music] unlimited daily cash back no.

matter where I shop. What a refreshing. change of pace. Apply for Apple Card. [music] in the wallet app on your. iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank. USA. Salt Lake City branch terms and. more at applecard.com. [music]. Did you read uh the interview? I think. it was in the New Yorker. Um the CEO of.

Flutify. So, if you if you haven't. >> Oh, I know what you're talking about. >> Yeah. The C the CEO of Flutify. >> um gave gave a really amazing interview. about what he does, right? And Flutify. is basically a clipping service online. >> Mhm. >> Where they will make anything seem more. popular than it is. >> Yeah. >> Right. But the way they do it is not. using traditional advertising. So, you. have an album that you want to release, >> but you're an artist who only has like.

50,000 fans. You go to a company like. Flatify. They're one of the companies. that do this. You pay them in a certain. amount of money, and that money will. determine like how much reach you're. going to get. >> And then they have a network, and I mean. like an insane network that blows it up. across quote unquote real people having. real opinions about your music. And you. can seem bigger than you are as an. artist. >> which then sort of catches its own fire. because that's that's how fame works and.

that's how news works and that's how. >> and and you you now on that level you. >> this is this is howular became famous. >> Yeah. So you think now you think oh I. mean who cares music you want to this is. where it gets sinister right and and we. we really have to worry about this in. society. >> news for politics too. >> for for everything. >> No way. Yeah. >> Um, a South African influencer put this. up recently on their on their page. >> Mhm. >> She has a full-time job, but she also. does like makeup and, you know, clothing, but just like really for fun.

>> Mhm. >> And then she put out uh this thing just. telling her fans, she's like, "Hey, I. don't know if this has happened to. anyone else, but this is a weird thing. that I'm experiencing. Someone's been. sending me emails like over like the. last yearish where they're offering me. money just to talk [ __ ] about South. Africa. They'll pay me upfront. I never. got that. >> They ask for nothing in return. >> I'm doing this [laughter] for free. Yeah. >> They they they pay me up front. They ask. for nothing in return. >> No way. >> And and they they don't give you a. script.

>> Say, yeah. Be organic. >> All they want is for you. >> And when you put these pieces together, you look at the Flutterify guy. I'm not. saying he does that, but he did say he. did say in the article that Eric Adams's. team. >> wanted to pay him. And he doesn't say. whether they did or didn't do it, but he. says what they wanted him to do was. create a campaign of New Yorkers. complaining about Mamani and all the. things that are going horribly and what. could go. No, no, really. And he was. like, we need a ground swell campaign. Eric Adams' team wanted this.

>> And when you realize that, you go, guys, we're on the precipice of. something that I don't think society is. ready for. >> Because it's one thing if we go like, oh, Hassan took money from Cuba, but. it's a lie and etc. It's a different. thing if we think we're living in a. world where the people around us are. having an experience that they're not. We live in a world where we think our. neighbors have pitchforks ready, but. they don't. >> We live in a world where we go like, "Oh. man, everyone around me is scared. There's crime in New York, but everyone. actually doesn't feel.

>> that is happening right now.". >> But that's what I mean. But I'm saying. as that as that compounds, >> it goes beyond just politics and. business. It goes to like the erosion of. society which then as you know because. you've studied it leads to the ultimate. forms of fascism. >> because if everyone is scared of. everything and nobody trusts anyone. >> we then look to one strong man who will. protect us all and create the calm that. we need. >> and voter apathy is a. >> yeah why would you vote cuz it's all.

rigged anyway so you don't want to vote. you don't want to participate you don't. want to do things. >> it's it's I I. >> and you want to punish people you want. to punish people that you've been taught. are responsible for the pain that you're. experiencing. And that's why I say it's. important to also identify the systems. of of oppression rather than to let it. dangle as though there is nothing wrong. at all or even sometimes identify. certain things that are wrong but never. talk about who's responsible for it. because that leaves an opportunity for. the Republicans to go back and reenter.

that anger and refocus that frustration. at vulnerable populations, transgender. people, immigrants, uh some of the. people that have no defense in American. society at all. some of the people that. are just contributing to uh the the uh. American working class in in very. meaningful ways in our productive output. and. >> not even getting anything in return for. it. And yet we have designed society in. a way where like that's who's. responsible for all of the angst for all. the suffering that you're going through. and it's certainly not the billionaires. It's certainly not the mega.

corporations. And when both parties are. uh designed in a way where they defend. corporate interests, the amount of. defense that you can the amount of. countering that you can do, the amount. of counter messaging you can do against. the right-wing reactionary thought is. going to be very limited. And that's. what uh that's what I think is a big. problem with the Democratic Party's. platform in general, where they can't. just say it's corporations of the. wealthy that's making the system the way. it is, dumbass. What are you talking. about? You think a random trans person. is responsible for you not getting.

healthcare? Are you [ __ ] stupid? You're going to get healthare. We're. going to give you healthare. That's my. advocacy. I'm like, we're going to give. you healthare. You need healthare. We're. going to build a house for you. You need. a house. You're racist. Okay. You can't. be racist any longer. We're not going to. deny you healthare or uh or or a roof. over your head because you're racist, but you got to vote for the not racist. party who will give you those things. Some people will look at that and go, "No, I'm so racist. I don't want a roof. over my head." Uh but not many people. are going to make that happen. >> I don't think that will happen. I don't. think that will happen. We saw that with.

um I mean not that we were there but um. who was it? Uh Chairman Fred Hampton, right? Black Panther Party. >> where he went to these white people who. are racist and they were like fully. racist. And he said, >> "You're poor. We're poor.". >> Ask yourself a question. If we are the. the n-words that you call us and we're. against you, why are we also poor? M. >> shouldn't we have the money and why are. you poor? So if we're poor and you're. poor, somebody's tricking both of us. So.

he's like, I'm going to work together. We're going to get you food. We're going. to try and eat food as well, and then. let's figure this thing out. And then. shortly after that, he was dead. >> Yeah. They [ __ ] murdered him in his. sleep. >> Yeah. Because it it it is it is a the. upending of that thing. There's so much. money in it, man. And and this is this. is this is again. >> a Marxist Leninist, by the way. This is. where it's important to throw an. addendum in. By the way, >> they make it seem like you're saying no. one should earn money. No one should do.

well. >> Should prosper, >> no one should prosper. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. What we're saying is. >> in a system where money is like water, the water should flow, right? And in the same way, countries that. share major rivers have to have an. agreement that the water cannot be. stopped by one any like any one country. >> They have to have agreements on that. You know that, right? >> Mhm. >> Because one country who's at like the. top of a river can just block the water. and then all the other countries that's.

literally an act of war. >> They go, "No, you can only block this. much for your dams and you can and you. can block this and then the next country. can block this much." The same. understanding should be had in my. opinion of money because we forget that. we've created systems now that sort of. have crippled what money was supposed to. do. It was an exchange of time and and. debt to trade. But if somebody can. create like a. >> a damn. >> a dam and they've got robots that earn. the money and then machines that make. the money and then robots that and the.

money keeps going here and then they. earn interest on the money and then they. get loans on the money but then they. don't pay taxes on that money. [clears throat] but then we pay the. taxes on the money cuz all of us sitting. everywhere here we pay the taxes on it. >> Then you go like what what are we what. are we building? What are we you know. what I mean? Like where are we? We're. building wealth for the upper class, for. the capital owning class in American. society and in the Western and people. don't understand how small that number. is. >> Oh, yeah. But that's what I want. I want. systemic change. And I'm never I've. never been an advocate for adventurism. That's not a Marxist tradition at all.

As a matter of fact, many theorists have. uh regularly criticized adventurism, which many Americans don't even know. what it is. But that's like Luigi Manion. is is adventurism. Like a person decide. allegedly. Thank you. Yeah, you're. right. a person that decided to take. matters in their own hands. Right. Right. The the propaganda of the deed is. what anarchists believe. >> Uh I don't. >> I I want to be uh organized and I want. to change society with uh diligent and. and disciplined organizing.

>> Last thing I'll ask you because I it's. interesting that we've had two guests. sitting at this table who've shared a. different opinion on it and I think I. know which way you're going to lean but. >> who are the two guests? >> Uh Pete Buddhajes and Bernie Sanders. Oh. god. >> Um, I asked Bernie Sanders. So I asked. Pete Buddhaj. I was talking about like. government and I guess him and I had a. bit of a disagreement. I I was saying. and I do believe this. I said. people have been made to believe that. government is inept but that ineptitude.

was manufactured so that it could be. privatized. >> Right. And we've seen this in South. Africa. We've seen this in the UK. We. see this in many countries. >> Wait, did he disagree with that? >> No. No. He was like, "Yeah, I guess to a. certain degree." And then I was like, the government is supposed to do the. thing. People forget the reason we made. a government. It's a brilliant idea. Is. because we could not all individually go. work on the roads. So we said, hey, let's all put our money together. >> Let's pull together. >> for the roads. >> Yeah, >> government is supposed to do things. And. then he was like, ah, no, but I think. there's many things that government is.

not that good at doing. Then I was like, name one thing. >> What did he say? >> Yeah, he said a few. And I I disagreed, honestly. I was like, I don't think the. government's bad at that. I think the. government can run a great airline. I. think the government can run a great. railway service. I think the government. can run a great healthare service. I. think the government can run great. education. You know why I say this? Because it did at some point. >> and it still does. >> People forget that all. >> it still does in most other places. We. just don't think about it. >> You know how many people who fight. against public education now were. publicly educated? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They're going to say public education.

doesn't work. But the smarts that. they're using to argue against us come. from public education. They're the. people who say, "Oh, no. The. government." Yeah, but the house that. your parents bought came from a fund. that the government made possible for. you. The school that you went to was. made possible by the government. >> So, this was my I I am vehematly opposed. to that argument because I think it's a. trick. >> I think the trick is you first make a. government inept. >> Yeah. >> So that people believe it cannot do. anything. Then you make that government.

sell off its parts to private, you know, to private companies and and. billionaires. >> You're describing neoliberalism that. took shape in America under Ronald. Reagan and also Margaret Thatcher. >> And then when they have all of it, >> they then now decide how the thing. works. They charge you as much as they. want for electricity. >> What are you going to do? >> Who who can live without electricity? The price has to go up. What are we. supposed to do? >> The tail wags the dog. So that was that. was that was that side of it. >> There's inelastic demand for healthcare. That's why exactly it has to be run by. the government in some way, shape, or.

form. It has to be controlled by the. government at the very least if it's not. entirely funded and and facilitated by. the government like the nationalized. healthcare system in in the UK. Um, and. at which point you see this in the UK. right now, they try to [ __ ] the. funding to the NHS over and over again. They they implement austerity so it's. worse off overall. And then people are. silly enough to to advocate for a. privatized version of that. And that's. what the Reform Party is doing right. now. The Reform Party wants to implement.

austerity on NHS. They won't say it out. loud. And they want to privatize it. But. why do people vote for the Reform Party? They vote for the Reform Party because. they think that immigrants are. responsible for all of the the issues. that they're experiencing in the UK. >> But it's easy. You know why it's easy to. do that though? I I have I have a lot of. sympathy for anyone who experiences. that. And I'll tell you why. I see this. in South Africa. I've seen it in the UK, you know, places I've traveled to and. places I've lived in.

People. >> like immigrants are bad. >> No. People, you know what? No, no. [laughter] People forget this, right? People forget. >> that. your ability to see or not see an. immigrant changes dramatically. >> with your standard of living and how. things are going. >> Mhm. >> I think people really take that for. granted. When you're doing well, when. your economy is doing well, when things. around you are doing well, >> you'll be shocked at how you don't. notice immigrants. >> They're sort of silently existing in.

your world because things are going well. because you don't see them. You don't. notice the guy at the corner shop has an. accent in that way when you you've got. enough money and the prices are. affordable and your your wages have kept. up. You don't notice the the the. immigrant in the hospital bed next to. you when you're also getting care. You. don't notice. you don't notice. But a. system that is failing its people. is inevitably going to have its people. notice the people who are not. >> quote unquote its people cuz they're.

like, "Wait, what is. >> I don't understand. You're saying we. don't even have enough for us.". >> Then why do we have enough for them? And. I I think of it. >> genuinely through like the the most. personal lens. when we had food in my house and my mom. like my mom was always always like, "Please go give give those street kids. this food. Give that homeless guy this. Give that." She she did that her whole. life. She still does that, right? I remember in my life when we were doing. well in the house, like when we had a. full fridge, I I never noticed it. I.

would I would run over giddy to that guy. and I'd give him bread and and stew and. some money. I didn't notice it. It's. when my mom opened her purse when it was. empty, >> took out her last 10 rand note and said, "Go give it to that guy." And I was. like, "This woman has lost her goddamn. mind.". >> Genuinely. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I still think she's amazing for. like doing that. But I won't lie to you. As a kid, I was like, "No, lady." I was. like, "That guy there, he should not be. getting our money in any way, shape, or. we have nothing.".

>> Yeah. >> And then she was like, "No, no, you. think we have nothing. We don't have. nothing yet. He has nothing. we're just. doing badly right now. >> But the feeling I had towards that. person, I can directly correlate to the the. purses, you know, the purse situation in. in in my house. And so I go, it is. inevitable that these people will I. don't even think they're silly to be. honest. I think they're human. I I'll be. honest with you. >> Yeah. >> I don't see how you could not hate. immigrants when someone is crippling a.

system around But it's um I think you. described it very well. Depending on. which side of the spectrum socially you. are, you describe an immigrant. differently. If you're doing well, you. you have a foreign friend. If you are. not doing too good and it feels like the. system is failing you and benefiting. them, then you see foreigners. >> completely right. >> Yeah. >> Completely. But there's I mean there's. also like wealthy racists out there uh. who are I think. >> advancing this propaganda and and.

specifically directing the attention. back to immigrants either because. naturally people start being more. tribalistic in times of economic. struggle. >> uh or because they're being. propagandized. >> want to look at them. >> Yeah. Exactly. Because no one wants no. one wants the attention to be directed. at them. So they go, "Oh, it's the woke. feminism or it's the it's the. transgenders or it's the immigrants that. are responsible for it. It's the black. people that are responsible for it in. America during uh, you know, reconstruction." Um, because any kind of. solidarity that that uh focuses on.

people's class interests remind people. that 99% of the public is a part of one. class and only 1% of the public is a. part of another class and most people. are just working for that 1%. the. overwhelming majority are. And that's a. terrifying prospect for the capitalist. Uh because uh as I as I like to say at. these rallies I go to, you know, they. got the money, but we got the people. And and that is something that they want.

to squash before it becomes a big. problem. And uh that's how I uh found. myself the recipient of allegedly a. subpoena that I haven't received yet. that Fox News says I have. And now. there's like this additional cycle of. misinformation coming out where they're. like he's terrified. He's actually. shook. Like the New York Post and Fox. News is writing articles about how I'm. like terrified. Uh. >> how much attention do you pay to that. stuff by the way? >> I mean I have to pay attention to it. It's it's mainstream media especially if.

there's no opposition from like the. liberal side. If Associated Press is not. writing about this situation, >> so no one's correcting it is what you're. saying. >> If no one's correcting it, the only. thing that's coming out is New York. Post, Fox News and whatnot. And I think. that's a very strange uh situation to be. in because then most people are looking. at that and and the conversation being. dominated by this negative framing. The. other thing was uh what Bernie Sanders. said. I I asked him I said um do you. think I'm paraphrasing it and you know. so because I don't want to um misstate.

what he said but I basically asked him. if the Democratic party was. one party. >> and he was he was like his answer was. essentially no. >> Yeah. >> He was like the thing that I'm doing. >> in his accent. >> is not I can't do Bernie. I can't do. Bernie well. I'll try I try I wish I'll. keep practicing. I'll try I'll try. >> He doesn't talk to Bernie. He only. [laughter] talks to Donald Trump. >> That's why he's so good at Donald Trump. That's how he said. He said, "No, no.". >> That's how he said. He was like, "No, no, [laughter]. >> no trouble." And I'll tell you why. >> No, it's not bad.

>> Yeah, it's not bad. But he's like, "He's. got a very specific thing." No. And I'll. tell you why. >> Uh, [laughter] let me tell you why. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He always does. >> Let me let me tell you why. Right. No, >> but he was like, "No.". >> Mhm. from your from your position, I assume. you'd have the same point of view, but I. wonder what you think the remedy to that. is, right? Because the Democratic Party. for a long time in America was it was a. coalition of people and it feels like. that coalition is slowly coming. unraveled. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, what do you see as a.

remedy if there is a remedy? >> There's different schools of thought on. this. Um, a lot of people on the on the. socialist side. >> I want yours though. >> recognize. Yeah, I'm going to give you. mine as well. Um, a lot of people on the. socialist side believe that entry is a. failure. And it's understandable to. think that because the Democratic Party. is a bourgeoa liberal uh capitalist. party. They will represent the interest. of corporations. That's what they're. designed to do. >> Um, and that's why their output has, you. know, reflected that reality over and.

over again where if you're wondering why. they're not doing certain things, it's. like, well, it's because they're not. supposed to be doing it. They're. supposed to be defending corporations, right? Um there's certain uh uh groups. like the Democratic Socialist of America. that have different opinion differing. opinions on this. Some people believe. that they can just like enter the. Democratic party and do entreism and run. socialist until the party is a. Democratic socialist of America party. Right. >> Sort of what the Tea Party did with the. Republican party. >> Yes. But the Tea Party didn't like. entirely take it over until Donald Trump. took over made it the MAGA party. Right.

But again, directionally, Trump and the. rest of the Republicans are actually. aligned, right? Trump might be more. aggressive on, you know, overt white. supremacy and maybe even a little bit uh. more uh reluctant to to destroy social. security, for example, as opposed to the. average Republican. But like. directionally, they're on the side of. deregulation and tax breaks. Okay? Right? Whereas what we're talking about. here, the DSA, is directionally on the. diametrical opposite side of the.

political spectrum in comparison to the. liberal capitalist Democratic Party. And. they recognize that, right? So there's a. real friction there that doesn't exist. with the white supremacists uh and the. rest of the Republican party. They. actually lean heavily into that. That's. why Republicans can lean into their base. >> whereas Democrats [clears throat] Yeah. Whereas Democrats run away from their. base, right? They have like disdain for. their base where they're like, "Oh, why. do you want us to do these things? Don't. you understand? Change is impossible.". So entism is difficult. Um my opinion on.

this is uh I I'm a harm reduction voter. I'm a harm reduction believer. I guess. to a certain degree I recognize that. class consciousness is the number one. problem in this country. We do not have. class consciousness and we do not have. political education. And without class. consciousness and political education, you can't have organizing on the basis. of class. So in order to ferment class. consciousness and to engage in agitative. propaganda as uh you know as is the. Marxist tradition, I believe that uh.

elections are one of the most viable. routes to reach the masses. >> Okay? >> Because. >> I think a lot of people no matter how. radical they present themselves as or no. matter how critical they are of Bernie. Sanders, a lot of people selfidentified. as socialists in that insurgent campaign. in 2016 when Bernie ran against Hillary. Rodm Clinton. that juxtaposition of a. left populist force, an. anti-establishment force who uh was. unbowed and said that they were a. socialist and weren't afraid of the. moniker uh going up against an. establishment uh like an establishment.

figurehead like uh Hillary or Rodam. Clinton made a lot of people. selfidentify as socialist. It made it it. made a lot of people go, "Wait a minute, I agree with that guy, right? I I agree. with that guy. I didn't know that this. designation existed or uh I I was so. negatively propagandized against what I. thought socialism was, but it turns out. it's this, you know, old cremagin, right? And and who is fighting for me, who has been fighting for me for 800. years at this point. [laughter] So. that's [snorts].

that's why I believe that and I've seen. this uh in the data as well like. whenever you got a AOC style figure or. Zora Mumani um the DSA rises uh the. DSA's ranks explode right there's so. many new paid members uh or paying. members sorry that that join the. organization and the DSA is very good at. uh instigating class consciousness and. also doing political education. It's a massive institution with many.

different caucuses and they're. constantly fighting one another. You go. to the national conference and you're. like. >> I like them all. I have no uh you know I. don't have it's like picking uh it's. like picking favorite children. You. can't do it right. Um but they're. constantly waring. There there's a. democratic process. It's complex. It's. uh it's very diverse. Uh but you have. every different tendency from liberals, social democrats, uh all the way to. Marxist Leninist, Mauist, third.

worldists, uh you know, people who uh do. not participate in democracy at all, uh. because they think it's it's ridiculous. and and counterrevolutionary. You have. all of that, right? And and that is. political education and that is an. absolute necessity to make the changes. in this country. And I see electoralism. as a route to ferment class. consciousness through uh proving that. alternative modes of governance are. viable.

>> And that's why I look to people like. Zoron as movement leaders in that regard. because every day that he's a good mayor. of New York is a day where we are able. to tackle the stigma associated with. socialism. uh every day that he's a. handsome, charismatic fellow that gets. to improve people's lives is a day where. more New Yorkers go, you know what, maybe I'm a socialist after all. >> Um I'm not I I I understand that uh you. know, you have to organize with the. masses that you have, not the masses. that you believe uh should exist. And.

many people in the United States of. America are selfidentifying as liberals. That's mass politics. That's that's what. the social base that's where the social. base is at. they selfidentify as. liberals because they don't really. understand what that means. If you were. to pick apart their worldview and offer. them uh a little bit of political. education, you might find that they're. actually not liberals at all. Maybe. they're socialists, maybe they're. Marxists, maybe they're uh you know, they have a different ideological. tendency than liberalism, which is. basically just the monoculture that. we've taken for granted. So, at a time.

when liberalism is failing and the. Democratic Party, as the liberal. Democratic Party, [snorts] is is failing. to keep up with the reactionary forces. on the Republican side, I I believe that. it's important to try to push for as. many radical candidates as possible and. change the makeup, the political makeup. of this unbelievably weak party that is. not a real political party in the sense. that they exist in Europe and in. parliamentary systems. Uh there's no. paid membership structure, like paying.

membership structure, but a party that. simply is a holdover for a litany of. different corporate interests and maybe. some advocacy groups on the side if you. want to throw them a bone every now and. then because you need door knockers. Um. that's a weak party. That's a party that. you can seize. That's a party you can. take advantage of because at the end of. the day, I have no loyalty to the brand. that is the Democratic party. >> Right. Okay. >> And I don't think anyone should have any. loyalty to any party. I think you should. have you should see politicians as an.

agent for change. >> because that's what they are. Are they. making those changes for their corporate. benefactors or are they making those. changes for you? Are they promising to. you that they are going to change your. lives for the better or are they telling. you better things are not possible which. is what a lot of Democrats do. unfortunately. Um, so you know, even if. I know a politician personally, Zoron is. a great example of this. AOC is another. example of this. If they do things that. I don't like, I'll say it. I'll be like,

"No, this was wrong. I I disagree with. you on this." Um, and I will hold them. to account because at the end of the. day, they're public servants. They work. for us, for all of us, right? Uh I there. there shouldn't be any loyalty to um a a. party or a brand especially if that. party hasn't done enough to deserve your. loyalty. You can have an ideological. commitment to a movement. I certainly do. and I have my moral convictions and I.

demand that the elected representatives. that I push for also have similar shared. moral convictions. But outside of that, I don't really care how how we get. there. You know, another Deng Xiaoping. quote I'll use. I don't know why I keep. using Dang Xiaoping quotes on this. Sounds cool. >> on this conversation, but also because. it's Tuesday. >> Yeah. >> You know what they say about Tuesday and. Dia? >> What? >> Nothing. Carry on. [laughter]. >> I was I was very caught. >> No. He said uh when when market reforms.

taking place in China, he said famously, "A black cat or a white cat, it doesn't. matter as long as it catches the rat.". >> And and that's the way I see it as well, where it's like, I don't really care. about what these brands are or what like. uh how people. >> focus too much on the labels and not on. the outcome. >> I care about I care about changes. I. care about necessary changes and getting. those necessary changes across. >> Damn. >> Well, this was great, man. This was. really really dope. Yeah. >> Good luck with uh your subpoena if it's.

there when you get home. >> Oh, speaking of which, >> can you just open the. >> That would be so amazing if we served. him right now. [laughter]. >> If we served you the subpoena, just like. we have been asked to deliver this to. you. This is from the Treasury now that. [laughter] we now that we've confirmed. who you are. >> Yo, Hassan, man, thanks thanks for. taking the time. This was this was. really great. Yeah, man. This was great. This was a fun conversation. >> Appreciate [music] it. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on.

to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let. them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's [music] questions. you want, maybe there's ideas that you. have. You can chat to us. We will read. through the comments and we'll get into. it. Either way, I appreciate you taking. the [music] time. Thank you for hanging. out with us on What Now. And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to. hear from you. Till next time. Thank. you.