Harris v. Trump: The Week Before with Tressie McMillan Cottom | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm too, like Halloween. from everything that's going on. But I feel like. you can even apply it to everything right now. Because what you've just said. applies in the same way politics used to be. About a moment in time. You wear your costume. What are you going as? Right. I'm going as a ghost. I'm going as a whatever. Right. And then now it's. people are wearing their. costumes 24, seven, three, 65. And then America wonders. why it feels so spooky and eerie all the time.

And this is what now. with Trevor Noah. So Tressie McMillan Cottom. Christiana Mbakwe Medina. who's winning the election? Not us. Can I tell you,

I know that America's always on edge. when it's election time, but it feels like. and I don't know if this is true, but it feels like. it is it's becoming more and more on edge. from election to election. Like this is the strangest. lead up to an election ever, because I don't think. anybody knows. what's happening or not happening. who's winning or who's not winning. Every poll has Trump up or down. Kamala Harris, like winning everything or losing it all.

Like in this moment in time. In this moment in time, I just want to know. Let's start with this. How are you feeling? I've got so many messages in my phone. from the last few days of people. texting me to tell me. how stressed out they are, and I would point out. to the audience, I'm a sociologist. That's not what I do at all, but that's how desperate people are. They're just like. contacting anyone that they think can help. You know, some of this is the hangover. from the fact.

that we can't believe losing the last time. didn't get rid of Donald Trump right. That's what I think some of this is. We thought we pushed him off of the stage. He's proving to be far more resilient. than I think anybody imagined. And so feels like. we didn't really get a break from him. And that's what I think. some of this anxieties about. Yeah, I don't know what to believe. I've kind of disassociated. over the last, I don't know, six weeks or so. I just tried to talk to people. who make me feel happy. I honestly can't do four more years of him.

Like I don't have the emotional stamina. he has the stamina. It could go on forever, but like, he's got the dictator blood baby on him, like he will go. And if you're from Africa, you know exactly what he has. I remember watching. Robert Mugabe and I'd be like, This guy will go on forever. I remember when he beat cancer. and I was like, Damn it, Cancer was like, I can't do this. Yeah, I can. Yeah. Cancer. Robert Mugabe. Mugabe did get cancer. like those type of people. That's what it is. But and I feel like whether he wins or.

loses, he's not going anywhere. I think that's the thing. that's kind of disheartening. So I might do. we just get another four years. so he can't be president again. It's like I'm like, that's the worst case scenario for me. I know. Trust me. This is. this is how I've been kind of. speculating to myself. But then I'm like, why is it even a race? Like, whatever you think about her, I think she's abundantly. more qualified than he is. and saner and less of a criminal. You know, I've been watching a ton of. scary movies. Obviously, it's it's Halloween, right?

Which is the perfect time. I feel like to have it. right before the election. America knows how to plan its holidays out. So so I'm terrified of scary movies. And I grew up in a in a world. where there was witchcraft. And so for me, it's not even like a joke. But I decided this year. I was like, Let me watch a few. Let me see if I like, you know, if I'm immune to it. Turns out I'm not. I'm still terrified. But it was amazing to see how horror movies. follow the exact same formula. that America's politics. and Donald Trump have sort of followed. Like like what you just said.

Now, Chris. Christiana is the end of every Smile movie. It's where somebody. just goes like at some point. they just accept it and they're like, All right, well, take over my body. and then at least this is the end. and that's it. Like it literally. it literally feels like some people are willing. or would rather just have it be over. than to keep on fighting, which is which is an understandable feeling. I was optimistic. Remember when we spoke to Jesse last, I was just like, yes, she can do this. And then it's like, actually,

it's all my friends who are Democrats. You are making me scared. Tressie, As a sociologist, help me understand this. How is it or is it normal. that the political parties themselves have. started to. come with a personality type, not just. a political affiliation. and I'll tell you why I ask this question. Right. Over the past few weeks, we've been watching. like the rallies as the race intensifies. We've been seeing people online. But listening to what you just said now,

Christiana, is something that I've noticed. across the board. Democrats are scared before the election. This is the same as before Biden. And by the way, Democrats are scared. before the election or liberals or whatever. you want to call yourself. And conservative people are like, we got it in the bag. This is the greatest moment of our lifetime. We're doing it, baby. You know what? I hear my president. and our president, Donald Trump, speak. He sounds for real, brother. He sounds like he has a heart of gold.

That's all for the U.S.A. But when I. hear Kamala speak, it sounds. Yeah, it sounds like a script. from Hollywood with a really, really. bad actress. Is is this something that explains this? Because I don't know another country. We have seen this, and I would love to know, Tressie, if you've given any thought. to like personality. going with a political party,

I don't understand it. Yes. I mean, there's a reason why people. increasingly over. the last like 30 years. or so, people who study this. kind of like political behavior, talk about how our. political affiliation has become our identity. Something that I found. personally strange, by the way I grew up in a politically active. family left over. from like the civil rights movement. and the black Power movement. It's not that we didn't participate. in electoral politics. We did right. We did get out the vote stuff. But I don't remember anyone.

calling themselves a Democrat. as an identity between elections. Right. What is happen. is that people. think of themselves as their. political affiliation now, all year round, all year round. And so because it's become. an identity, identities. like other identities, right? Identities are attract. attracted to personalities. And this is coincidentally something. that I think Donald Trump. understood intuitively, that Democrats did not.

he understood what people wanted. from politics, which was different. from what they said they wanted. All right. People want to go into. a political. into the voting booth. and into a political party. feeling like a member of the party, not as someone who was responsible. for democracy or, you know, responsible. for freedom in all of that. And what Donald Trump knows. how to do. is appeal to your identity. as opposed to, like your morality. Liberals are still.

stuck in this cycle of like. wanting to appeal to our higher, better angels. And frankly, in a. in a consumer driven, identity driven society, there is no higher angel, there is no better angel. People just want the softest, cheapest bread, right? Like nobody wants whole grain bread. We want Wonder Bread for 199. that will always taste. like the Wonder Bread we got last time. And Donald Trump understands that. And he's like, I'll give you. all the Wonder Bread you want.

I was thinking about this. the other day, so it's weird for me. I've lived through my country's. first democracy, like my first. my country's first democratic elections. And one of the biggest things they told us. in South Africa. when the election was happening. Now, granted, I was only ten years old, but this is how powerful. the marketing campaign was. The main thing they said was Your vote. is your secrets. Your vote is your secret. Now, remember, this is a country where black people.

were oppressed for like hundreds of years. This is the first time they're going to. get to vote. Black people were like, We can tell you who we voting for. They were like, No, no, no, no, no, no. Your vote is your secret. And then they would teach us this. Even in school, they were like, Your vote is your secrets. because it is part of keeping a society. functioning well. You go into the booth, you vote, and then when you come out, you can talk about politics. But don't. don't tell other people who you voted for. Don't even tell your own family members.

and recently have started. realizing how important that is. It's it's weird. to live in a country or in a time. when people are only talking about. who they voted for. or who they're going to vote for. or who they think other people. should be voting for. Does this make any sense? yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. But I'm just like, if something has to be a secret, maybe I'm in my mode now because we don't like. Opie and Luna. Our role is no secret. Because that secret on the safe, right? Any time you tell a chance, like.

keep it a secret, something sinister is going to happen, right? I'm just like, why should it? If something has to be a secret, maybe you should question why. That's my that's my only thing about voting. Like I come from the other. Like in England, people are, like, proudly wear the fact that. they're Tories or Labor or Lib Dem or Green. And I don't think. I guess until Brexit it wasn't as fraught. because it was just like. your political party was a. big part of your identity. Like, I don't I'm. not necessarily of this school.

It should have to be a secret. I'm glad you brought that up. I was thinking about it and there were. two things that stuck with me. I don't know if these resonate. with you at all. One, I thought. it should be a secret in a place. where people have guns and shoot each other. So that's the first thing that I. thought with. Okay, that's right. Yeah. So in South Africa. it was like, your vote should be a secret. because shit is crazy out here. Like, things were not calm. when when we were voting for the first time. All right. The second one I was thinking about was. and this is something that I secretly believe.

might happen in the election. I think there are a lot of people. who are going to wear a certain colored hats. and are going to. go to certain rallies. and they're going to say certain things. But when they. go to the voting booth. and they pull that little curtain across, they might vote for themselves. and for their bodies. and not necessarily only. to match up with their community. And that's sometimes why. I think voting should be secret. is because it allows people to vote.

against the interests of the people. they're scared of publicly being against. Yeah, there's a trope. of like the Trumpy husband. with the. good churchgoing wife who is going to vote. for it, perhaps. Right. But I'm. I guess why I'm feeling so anxious and say. you may be able to speak to. this is because I'm like, I think over the last. ten years, I've I'm like society. is just even crazier than I thought. Like what you said. about there being like, no higher. Good. I really feel that. And I think,

you know, Trump's America's ID and. he appeals to people's like most base impulses. And I think a lot of people. may give in to that. I think that's a beautiful way. to put it. And I'm not saying that. just because I have said. the exact same thing, Christiana. I truly believe. I have also said I think Trump is our ID. and the thing about it is that. it feels amazing, it feels great. It is ultimately destructive, but it feels good on the way down. I'm not sure either how much I.

how much stock. I put in this politically divided, you know, husband wife trope. Same. I think there is some truth to it. But I think that. the benefit. to a lot of women of being close. to patriarchal power outweighs. a lot of their individual fears. about their loss over their bodily autonomy. I also think we can't overstate how much, especially on the conservative side, conservatives historically vote. for government to regulate others, not themselves, right?

They truly believe that when they vote. for something to be regulated. that it won't happen to them. And so I think for a lot of women, they are voting to regulate other women. I also don't want to let. a lot of women off of the hook. because empirically we saw how they voted. a last time, in particular white women. And I will say something. that a friend said to me. once she turned to me and said, Trust me, crackheads don't marry non crack heads. Like if the both people. are sitting at the kitchen table. and one is extremely.

enthusiast, skeptically, Trump said, You're safest bet here is that they share this. Yeah. And yeah, you. and I, I have found that. to be very helpful to keep in mind. We're going to continue this conversation. right after this short break. We could be. right back to the days before Roe, the days.

when abortion wasn't as safe as it is today, the days. when the number of mothers of color. dying in childbirth. was 30 to 40% higher. than when it was under Roe. So to the men who love. us, please. do not. do not put our lives. in the hands of politicians,

mostly men who have no clue. or do not care about what. we as women are going through, because a vote for him. is a vote against us. The talk. that's been. most prominent, I think, on the black vote side, you know, typically I'd say, especially in the Obama years, it would be talking about. like the black church as a voting base. and just knowing the black church. were going to go Democrat. and things. kind of splintered in 2016 and 2020. And now a conversation that's become.

really prominent I have issues with. So I don't think the numbers. of that significant. is black men. kind of abandoning. the Democratic Party, particularly black men. who aren't college. educated and who are secular. and are like may not vote for. HARRIS Right. Do you think it's kind of being overblown? And I going to what many people believe. scapegoat black men? Yes. If Harris loses this election, or is there a significant portion. of black men. who are kind of feeling. abandoned by the Democrats?

So I think both of those are true, but they are not at the same scale. And so, yes, it is empirically true. We're talking about like 5%, though, in journalist. Elie Mystal at The Nation. recently pointed out, he was like, why are we talking about 5% of black men. were overwhelmingly 85. to 90% of black. Americans are still going to vote. for Kamala Harris. And I could not sign on to that more. But there's a difference. between something being like, that is statistically interesting. and it being statistically important. So like, yeah, I don't think ultimately.

it will be significant electorally. Now what's interesting about that is. I do think that Donald Trump has tapped into. this sort of like patriarchal. impulse of men, not just black men, by the way, it's also true. for Hispanic men as true overwhelming, again, for working class men, which is this desire here to see a sort of. like see themselves. as economic breadwinners again, the idea that they want their moment in the sun. and Donald Trump becomes a figure. saying he can,

you know, show them in leading the way. I attribute it more to the decline. of the power of the black church. than I do. of any specific appeal that Trump has. to black men. And like. What would you say to like, I guess to. the Hispanic vote, I think is like treated. like a monolith, really like because no. you know, yeah, Cubans in Miami are different. from Dominicans. in Washington Heights, and they're just treated as all Mexicans. and they're treated as the same thing. But the Democrats. also have an issue with the Hispanic vote. Like I think Trump's done a very good job.

of cultivating this base. and they're responding to him. and he's able to speak to them in ways. that the Democrat, the Democrats don't. But it's not doesn't seem to be as much. as a story right now anyway. Yes. Yeah, I agree. I think that's because. we have such a clear cut historical narrative. about black and white voters. Right. That we can't deal with the sort of. like complexities. of the sort of. Hispanic coalition. which as you point out, comes from very different.

and sometimes conflicting. national origins. with very different political interests. that maps sometimes on the race. Like sometimes Cubans are white. and sometimes they are. in ways that I just think. is too complicated. for a country that is just still stuck. on black and white. But I do think that fundamentally, I think that. the question about that. is probably more interesting. and potentially important, given the demographic growth of the Hispanic. voting base than it is then. The question. about black male voters, Yeah,

I kept coming. back to that, especially to like. speak to like my. my husband's relatives. and she reads us Hispanic. So a lot of people. and I'm like, well, this is a missed opportunity. And I also think that. Democrats are not doing right. that arbitrary yet have missed out. On capitalizing about her being Asian. Also, it's. just something that they feel like. they've spent so much time. defending her blackness. I've also been like, hey, there's like. we could capture another vote here. through her identity And it. But let me ask you this, though.

Let me ask you this. Do you not think that Kamala Harris. and the Democrats as a whole. have always been like a lose lose situation? Right. And I'll tell you why. They for me, they're always in a lose. lose situation. It's because they're a big tent party. and it's a coalition. Right. So. when you when you. when you look at like Donald. Trump slash the Republicans, it's easy to go, what is this? All you have to do is. if you are a person of color, if you are, you know, a certain ethnicity, if you all you do. is you check that in at the door.

You say that you're fully MAGA, fully. American, and you're welcome, by the way. You are very welcome. I think this is a misconception. You're very welcome. And then the other. people who come in, if they're white, they still get to come in with their grievances. and be like, I'm a white man. who doesn't get looked at the way I used to. And let me tell you. something about why. we got to go about it, right? You get to do that. But now when you're in, there's a singular focus on a singular idea. And what they're selling you is crystal clear. So they go, Come here. If you feel like your life's.

not great anymore, come here. If you feel like you don't have. a place in society anymore, it's singular and it's clean, right? Each and every one of you has been loyal. to your country. You have loved your country. You follow the rules. You paid your taxes, you did everything right, and the system. just keeps beating you down, beating you down and beating you down. And if you if you look at it. on the Democrat side, I can't tell you with clear crystal clarity. what the message is. or is not or where you should.

And I'm not blaming it on them. and I'm not blaming it on Kamala. So if let's let's play all the games, if Kamala Harris came out. and really pushed on her being Asian, people would like, what is she doing? She's she's neglecting the black vote. She's a black woman. How can you neglect. such a powerful voting bloc? And if she came out and then she focused, then we go like, she's not thinking of the Asians. And then if you go Hispanic, they're going to be like, Wow, really? We're going to get a black woman. And she's focusing more on Hispanic voters. than she is on black voters, like forgetting our own. And then if she like it feels like.

it feels like. there's a. simpler path on the Republican side. than there is on the Democratic side, because the Republican side. has one simple idea. And if you join the team, it's like it's like a sports team. You wear the shirt, you cheer for us. and you forget everything that. you came with and you're in. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, I kind of disagree, and I'll say this because kind of. I'll take kind of from Cristiano. that and I really disagree. I'm just like, that means I've made some inroads.

I'm trying to be polite about. Back before the ascendance. of Donald Trump, the Republican Party, they were publishing. a bunch of papers about them. and the minority vote, and they were panicked. They were like, we're not reaching. black people and not rich Asians. Exactly. They lost Muslims after 911, but like all the blocks. that were reliable to them, they couldn't speak to them. And they still struggle with these people. because these people. are still with the Democrats. Right. So we know they. they know there's an issue.

And Trump is a very unusual event. I think what. the Democrats have that they forget. that Obama embodied. is that you just need to say. the fact that you have. this huge tent. is actually. a really beneficial thing. because he was just like, yes, we can. And people are like, sure, if you make people feel good enough, the idea that it's like whatever you are, however you're abled, whatever you look like, whatever. your sexuality, you, you are welcome here. It's a very powerful message. And I just think that the message of fear.

right now on the Republican. side is just been crafted so well. and it's so clear. And to me, that's what. frustrates me about the Democrats. I'm like, you have to work on your messaging. because people if you say, like, we have this big tent. where our family, we don't always get along, but you're well, you're more welcome here and you're more able. to be yourself here. than you are on the other side, then I think that's an exciting message. But I think, you know, but I think. I think we're agreeing, actually. Funny. I think I honestly. I'll tell you why I think we're agreeing. Let's let's look at Obama as an example.

I believe the seminal moment in Barack. Obama's ascendancy is. when he's at the convention and he says. there is no red America, there is no blue America, there is just the United States of America. And what white people all over the world. Exactly. You heard them in unison, Tressie. Yeah, I heard them in unison. Because what Obama did very well was he. did the exact same thing. That's what I'm trying to say. He did what Trump did. He goes, Leave it at the door.

He's like, I'm not going to poke. you on that issue. I'm not going to remind. you of the fact that you're white. I'm not going to remind you of No, no, no, no. Let's do this thing together. Do you know what I mean? Even when he didn't Trump, even when he gave, Trump said, no, trans people know about Mexicans. No one ever. So here's my thing. Okay, I'm going to give you. And he knows groups all the time. I mean, that's why people are drawn to him. Here's something that you have. to do with Donald Trump. You have to learn to hear what he's meaning.

and not just what he's saying. A lot of academic people. get stuck. on what Donald Trump is saying, but not on what he means. Right? I remember when Donald Trump did. the Muslim ban, people were like, Well, that's it for him. No, no Muslim person and no Middle. Eastern person is going to ever vote for him. And I remember speaking to Muslims. and Middle Easterners, not just in the US, but in other countries. when I traveled to the Middle East. and they were like, we understand what he's saying. It was like, What do you mean you understand? And they were like, No, no, we understand what Donald Trump is saying.

He's saying there are. you know, he doesn't want any of these, like radical groups coming to America. And then it's like, but he called it a muslim. And they're like, no, no, look, look, he's not very articulate. Then he is not going to. But we understand what he said. even here in the Middle East. We don't want. those people. We are sick of ISIS, We're sick. of extremists. Then I was like, wait, wait, wait, guys. But he did a muslim ban, so you're banned. Then they were like, Yeah, but this we can figure it out in time. The most important. And I was like, Damn, yeah, you hearing something. different to me.

because I'm not listening the same way. And so if you listen to Donald Trump, he's saying to you. as a black person, Hey, I forget black, I don't even care about that. In that way it's going to be better. because what does he say? What does he say? No, What does he say with these words? He goes, The blacks, the black jobs are coming. We're bringing all the black jobs back. No, I was just about to. say the black jobs message. I actually thought the Democrats. made a mistake. Yes. Doubling down on mocking that. My apologies to Michelle, a.k.a.

Jesus. But I thought we made a mistake. Trevor and I have said this. over and over again, but I'm not in control. And that's fine, because what people heard in Black Jobs. was a racialized history about working. class people in this country. That actually is true. Yes. If you were my people, like my grandparents and my uncles, they are black jobs, especially during the height of. like unionized manufacturing.

and industrial labor in this country. They're not insulted that you call that work. Black job. because they were dying to get one of those. black jobs. They fought. white dominated unions for those black jobs. And what they heard Donald Trump say. the minute he said it, I knew what he meant. And I said, well, I know who. that will resonate with. With, by the way, overwhelmingly men. who work in like masculine jobs. that have a unionized history. What they were hearing was we used to have.

a certain level of protectionism. in the labor market. And yes, it wasn't maybe the best job. in the factory, right? It wasn't the best job. on the construction site. But we understood what jobs to apply for. and where we would get some, if not preferential treatment. and certainly some understanding. that we were supposed to be there. And what Donald Trump understands. is that. when your instincts are accurate, you'll take any prescription. that solves that problem for you. And his prescription right now has a clarity.

that the Democrats don't have in part, I think, because. they don't. want to be held responsible. for delivering on the clear promise. So he Trump doesn't work. damn. He's like, elect me, whatever. I don't care, because he's like a fox. I win. You won. Right? And frankly, a lot of his voters agree with that. The Democrats are so scared. that they can't actually possible. for the clarity of their message. that they never get a clear message. Damn, I never thought of it. that way. But that's because I mean,

look at it with Israel-Palestine. Say what you want about Donald Trump. But he sort of had. a clearer message than Kamala on. It's he just goes, we're going to bring peace. You know, he that's what he says. He says, I'm going to do it. I'm going to bring peace. Where's Kamala goes, Well, we must look at when. this started. and also never forget. that also there's a Toba seventh, but also the Palestinians. Donald Trump's just like, no, there's going to be peace. and Ukraine, there's going to be peace. They would never do it. But you know, she could never say that.

And I think that's what I don't know. What is X that. frustrates me about this election. is that she could say and do all the things. he says and she couldn't get away with it. And nobody can. nobody can do the things Donald Trump says. And I think even Republicans can't. No, I think I think. I think most mediocre. white men can get away with it. I don't know anybody. if you have a lot of women charisma like he's. shown us that, right, as long as you like. I don't know, Christiane.

I think Donald Trump is so nature. He is a freak of nature. He's a freak of nature. Black swan. But he shows you, like I said to. my husband the other day, like he was. speaking about something, we know this white guy. and he never shows up to meetings. And I was like, That's how you use your whiteness, because meetings are a waste of time, right? So he's he's just never that. And I'm like, Listen, if I was a white man, why am I? I would meet either. Sure. Wouldn't. I mean, that's how. you use your privilege in a benign way. He's like, kind of always throwing a stick around, like, I want to go to the meeting. and I think like, Donald Trump, like, uses his whiteness to the max in a way.

that most white men would never dare. But I think. if you're like, I'm. going to be really shameless, I'm. at the top. of the social hierarchy. and more men adopted Trump. So you being. they could get away with so much stuff. in a way that I think Harris just cannot. And also I don't think she's. particularly loose in that way. And I don't say that like that's yeah, I was conscious, but I think it's like, yeah, she's a lawyer. It's fair to say. some of. this is about limitations. of the candidate, which yeah, right now is, you know,

we're not. supposed to say, but I just think that's real. that this is not her register. Right. But I also think. to Christiane, his point that I think Trump is. particularly gifted as a messenger, even if his political instincts suck, but he doesn't need strong. political instincts right now. The structure of electoral politics. in the United States is such. that you could run a. potato. as the Republican candidate. and it will be competitive. You know, we have so jury rigged the process.

We have got so much gerrymandering. The courts have been packed. I think. the real question is why somebody so buffoonish. can't tank the Republican ticket. It's that strong Now he sells that better. He makes people feel better about it. But that's, I think, a slightly different gift. than his political instincts. Yeah. So you know what? Let's look at the Trump rally. You know, before we get into any of the analysis, even I just. wanted to talk to you. about this rally. because I feel like in the homestretch,

it doesn't matter what country. you in a week before the election, all you want to do, all you want to do is not fumble the bag. That's all you want to do. Yeah. Donald Trump and his people. I don't know who signed off on this. I don't know because I do believe. this could be one of not not I don't think. But if Donald Trump loses this election, nobody should take for granted the significance.

of hosting a rally at Madison Square Garden. where you're opening act comes out. Says the model RICO. is a floating pile of trash in the ocean, says that black people. carve watermelon for Halloween. my God. Republicans are the party with. a good sense of humor. Free speech is under attack, people. I host a show and each week. I get updates. what words. were allowed to use and not use anymore.

You know, there's a lot going on. Like, I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally. a floating. island of garbage. in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah, I think it's called Puerto Rico. Okay. All right. Okay. We're getting there. Yo, let me tell you something. I was watching that and I was just like, who didn't think that that comedian. Tony Hinchcliffe. taking him out of the context. of a comedy space, even if you want. to call it edgy or whatever. Let's remove that for a second. Right. I understand in comedy,

people like all the jokes. Yeah. But right now, this is not a joke event. and no one knows this is a joke event. And you put this guy up. and he goes on and he just like. there were people who had never posted. for the Democrats, by the way, who started posting. Right. Bad bunny, for instance. Yeah. Yeah. So, Kamala, bad bunny is like that's it isn't. Jay Leno came out. Ricky Martin came. And I don't know who jumped in, who didn't like that. I'm not saying they did or they didn't, you know, previously. But it was pretty.

significant to see people like step up now. And the thing is, all Donald Trump had to do. was come on stage and say, you know, I saw Tony and his jokes. and Tony's a funny guy, but Tony, come on. Hey, we love Puerto Ricans. We love them. We love them so much, Tony. That's all he had to do. If he came out and said that, it would have been like, you saw that and you acknowledge that. that wasn't cool and we're with you. But he didn't. And I think even the people. there were just like, Well, that's what it is. I'm just saying Tony Hinchcliffe for me.

showed me even in that moment. that Donald Trump is something special. because Tony Hinchcliffe came up as a comedian, said a thing, he made a racist joke, made a few racist jokes, and could not get the people to, like, buy. in on it in a way that Donald Trump could. That's another example of what I mean is. Trump can get away with. that because Trump, even in the moment, would be savvy enough to say, no, I shouldn't say that about Puerto Rico. We love the Puerto. We love that we love you. Yeah, yeah. And even in that moment,

he's acknowledging. and the audience gives him leeway. because and I know. this is going to sound very blasphemous. Christianity don't fight me. It's okay. Here's what I think. Donald Trump has done well, that Barack Obama did well, that Bill Clinton did well, that maybe even Jeb Bush in some ways did well. Donald Trump. has understood the element, not maybe, maybe instinctively he does, but he's brought church to politics.

When you were in church, both of you just stick with me. I see your eyebrows. Hold on a second. Okay. On. I'm relaxed. My listening. Everybody. Everybody. You land. Trevor. I've seen you listen in many different ways. Tressie. That's. That's. That's what you're you. I'm with you. Listening Face. So this is what I mean. Do you remember going to church. and the pastor. would be giving a sermon, and this would be a serious show. and it would be a deep lesson. And in that lesson, he would throw something out.

that was so politically incorrect. I remember my brain as a child would. literally short circuit for a moment, you know, So he like, let's say he would say, you know, be reading from the scriptures and be like, honor wives, honor thy husbands. And he'd be like, he's like, he's like, But when I. when I ask my beautiful Mavis. to make me a snack at midnight, she seems to forget that scripture. Come on, woman. And then the crowd would laugh, and he. and then the pastor would very quickly say, No, no, I kid, I kid.

But what is God. telling us in this scripture? And would quickly come back to. No, no, no, this is real. This is not this is real. This is not. But what I feel like great. pastors are able to do is they leave. the congregation feeling seen. and then they find a way to make it seem. like it's about a larger thing. And it's. you shouldn't focus on one specific moment. So the husband gets to. walk out of the sermon. going, yes, I was seen as a man. This is my purpose. But a woman gets to walk. out of the congregation,

out of the sermon, saying, I'm a woman. and I've been validated. A child gets to walk, are feeling the same thing. But everyone collectively has sort of. been preached to, you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you get anything but I just feel that like. and what I'm saying is. preacher darkness, like, I don't know. And I understand that. Like, I'm. I'm not disagreeing that. he brings like this looseness and improv. I don't know if he's don't. it doesn't have enough soul. for me to quite be church. I think Obama had some of that.

But you know, also I'm a passenger. Yes but which feel like what. which church we have to a. that's the Journal. of business. which I think sold the church. which I get to talk about. when you talk about. and the smoke machines and the hot. blond women like that. What about. what I think is when you talk about soul, you know, I feel like you're looking for soul. in the wrong place. Okay. This is what Trump has. He's just like an. intrusive thought, you know, like all the things that. people want to say, but we know we shouldn't say. And we do take.

lot delight. in those people. that I had a great uncle like that. he would say the most outrage. I can't even repeat the stuff. Well, he was like. the great uncle that was like, I shouldn't. let black people in heaven. because we'll still the gold off the street. This was my great uncle, right? And like you, just like. you don't know whether to laugh or cry, but he used to get off on saying. the really outrageous stuff. and he was very beloved and people were drawn. to him. He reminds me of Trump. Trump reminds me of him. And I think, Yeah, that's fine. for a great uncle drinking. Hennessy in his living room.

But then, like. when you have a crowd of people. and he's like, Well, they're going to give you. your child is going to. go to school a boy and come back a girl, It's just like, Where are we? Where are we going with this? Because he's humorous, but he's also stoking up hatred. Trevor. definitely. And I just want to say, I don't want. us to implicate Hennessy here. I think that I think. with Hennessy out I'm sorry. It was his favorite drink. Thank you. yeah. C'est la vie. Yeah. All right. Deserves that shade. But I hear you, Christine.

Get ready for me to nerd out a little. in this new segment, F1 Love, where we will. talk about all things F1. and the huge amount of things happening. for the upcoming F1 Las Vegas GP. Did I ever tell you about the first time. I went to a Formula One race? No, you didn't. Same story. But I love Formula One. Like love, love, love, love, love, Formula One. So I,

I was introduced to Formula. One by my dad, right? And my dad is Swiss German. Not very good at showing affection, but really good at like. displaying it in his own way. So my mom was all hugs, kisses, smiles, laughter, threw me up in the air, run around with my dad, was very much like, Are you fed? Do you want to do something? Do you want to watch something? Okay, here we. And my favorite thing. was we used to watch Formula One. So that's how I grew up, right? Loving Formula One. There's a radio station in South Africa.

and they are hosting a competition. to go and watch Formula One in Brazil, and you've got to enter the competition. And it was this whole thing. you had to like do Formula One commentary. And I literally I'll never forget this. I said to my cousin, I think I've won the competition. And he's like, But you haven't even phoned in yet. And I said, Yeah, I think I've won already. And literally I phoned in. and they didn't call me back. And so I went to the radio station. and I was like, Hey, I'm pretty certain I won the competition, but I haven't heard. And they're like, Well, that's a little arrogant.

Like if you don't call, you didn't win. Then I'm like, No, I definitely won. I just want to know why you didn't call me. And then the woman at. the station was like, Wait, there was one person who called. and it cut off before. we got to their name and their phone number. was that you? And then they played. The tape was like, That's me. And then like, yeah, come back for the finals. And then long story short, I did it again. I won again. And I was one of ten people. who got to go to Sao Paolo. my God, this is crazy. Yeah. And then over your life, the Lord just gets it was happening, and it was one of my limits. If you've never been to a Formula One race,

it is one of the most. exciting experiences you will ever, ever get. You have. you will love Formula One. because it transforms the city that it's in. So the newest race is on. the calendar is it is in Vegas. And I know people would be like Vegas, like where do you racing? But yeah, they race in Vegas. In Vegas, it's out on the streets. Yeah. They build a circuit. race through the streets of Vegas. You, you know, sometimes people will talk about. like a partner or a friend. They'd be like, I feel like we've. always known each other.

That's how Vegas seems when F1 is there. It seems like it was made for the city. because think about what Formula One is. It is. young hotshots. trying to make their names known. Yeah, all these beautiful people around them. Champagne, a party, excitement, noise, thrills, bright lights. It is Vegas. Yeah, it is one of the most exciting. And what I like about it. being in Vegas is it feels like. the city is geared to having people there. because I don't like it. when sporting events go to places.

where the place is almost. not even the people know they don't. Yeah, Vegas is like, No, no, come, yeah, come here. And have you been to a Formula One race? No, I haven't. But growing up, I'd like to watch, like, Schumacher and Damon Hill. Like, I. I love it, but yeah, I'd watch it as a kid. and it was a zoom around this. You should go. Vegas is around the corner for you. Yeah, but I'm not going to be Luna. Your kids would love F1. He'd want to join in. He'd want to be at the pit. Stop changing the tire.

You've got to do it. Like, I don't know. It's like a it's like a mini world. And probably. Is it like a family? That's probably the best thing. Yeah, that's the best thing about it. is people are in the stands, they're cheering together. and it's an experience. It's not, you know, there's some sports. where. if you don't get the sport, then you don't really want to be there, you know? But Formula One is just. I mean, the premise is simple. It is simple. There's a car and it's trying. to drive faster than another car. And the cars are different brands. Exactly. Exactly. So you and Obie have to go. Okay. We need a chaperon.

Yeah, we'll forget. All right. We'll figure it out. We'll make it like. Yeah, we'll make it a trip. See you in Vegas. See you in Vegas. That was F1 love brought to you. by F1 Race Week in Las Vegas. November 21, 223 Tickets are available. now by visiting F1 Las Vegas GP com. and everybody here knows. this is going to be a tight race. till the very end. So we have a lot of work to do, but we like hard work.

Hard work is good work, hard work is joyful work. And make no mistake, we will win. There's two things I really want us to get. to in the conversation that I. So first of all, do you acknowledge the possibility. that your fears are overblown. and Kamala might win this thing? I used to think she would win, so I won. But now you don't. It's because of the. the the. coastal elites in my life.

have made me feel so depressed. Did you feel like Biden would win when he won? No, I didn't think Biden would win in 2020. I did not believe he would win. I don't know why I did Tressie. I did. I thought COVID was that important. of an external shock. And so, yes, I thought people. there's something. they're finally more scared of. then their so-called. economic insecurity and xenophobia. And that was COVID, because that's what I think. all of this is what. Trump gives. as a solution to these existential fears.

But there was something. finally bigger and it was COVID. And so I did think that Biden. stood a better than fair chance. And Tressie, do you think. Harris is going to win affairs are overblown? What do you think? I think that I, I think that. anything is possible. I think it is possible. for her to win and not win. And let me tell you why I, I do think that her campaign. is particularly savvy, but Donald Trump. doesn't need to win to win. I think that Donald Trump.

is going to declare victory. election night no matter what happens. and will immediately start litigating that. both in the courts and in his voters minds. And I'm not sure the Democrats. are willing to go as far as Donald Trump is. And that scares me. If this is a straightforward. election and people accept the election. certification of results, then I think that. she might have enough enthusiasm. to get the kind of turnout that she needs.

Yeah. So like. I think in Georgia, I think things like her. black social institutions. are absolutely going to matter. I just think the case is. going to brand Georgia all to hell and back. But again, that's assuming a Trump campaign. that I don't think exists, which is one that will accept. the electoral results. Wow. I didn't see that as an answer. that you see now. That's scary to me than just an election. I know I'm no raven, but now I'm less scared. because at her heart, she's a prosecutor, and I'm not sure her lawyer is in place now.

I'm like, okay, fine. If it comes down to like, if it comes down to. legal, therefore, you know, but if it comes down to. legal stuff, I feel like she'll play. messy in a way we've never seen. because she really wants this. I agree. I do think that she wants this. to a degree that we so far have underestimated. Yeah. When I see Colin, the. moments when I think she is her. most self, that girl is a shark. And I say that with a great deal of respect, as I like to think I'm a little scared, too. So I'm not saying that's bad.

I just. That's. I think you are exactly right. And I think some of what's happened in her. campaign has been moderating that. Yeah, there is softening. all of the reasons for race and gender. and all that kind of stuff. But I agree with you. I think that she is a shark. I think she wants it. and would be willing to go to the mat. I just hope the Democratic Party. is willing to let her and get behind her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this.

And what is. what is happening with Tucker Carlson? Like, what is happening in his private life? You No. And I know. is let's not look at his browser history. I know that. Right? That man that man gave a speech. at The Turning Points convention. And in it, he basically goes on. to draw an analogy. between Trump coming back as president. and a father coming back home to kids.

who are misbehaving. Now, as an analogy stands, it's pretty innocuous at that level. But what he says afterwards. is mind blowing. If you allow. people to get away with things that are. completely over-the-top and outrageous, if you allow your. two year. old to smear. the contents of his diapers. on the wall of your living room. and you do nothing about it, if you allow your 14 year old to lie to. join at the breakfast table,

if you allow your hormone addled 15 year. old daughter. to like slam the door of her. bedroom and give you the finger, you're going to get more of it. and those kids are going to wind up in rehab. It's not good for you. and it's not good for them. No, There has to be a point. at which dad comes home. He then goes on to say. he's like, America's been bad. And and he goes he says, This is the part that stuck with me. I paraphrase most of it. But essentially, he says he says he says,

your son is smoking. marijuana at the dinner table. He's like, no more of that. And your daughter is slamming. her bedroom door in your face. Well, you know what? Daddy's coming home. Daddy's coming home and you've been a bad girl, a bad, bad girl, and you're going to get. a vigorous spanking. That's right. You're going to get spanked. You're bad, bad girl. And no, it's. not going to hurt me more than it hurts you.

it's going to hurt you way more. But you've been. a bad girl and you're just like a we. have. We just traveled with. you and into your your deepest dark. Like. there were two things that stuck out for me. One, I found it interesting that. even in his analogy, the girl had to do. way less to get a bank spanking. Let's just start with that. We I'm so glad you caught that. Like that was one of the. so that's like why the obsessed. with the daughter the boy spoken with. marijuana at the table. even if you are like a super liberal.

chilled out family, someone's smoking. weed at the dinner table. Come on. Someone's got to have a problem with that. The girl slammed her door. That's all she did. And then Daddy comes home to beat her. I, I just like what is happening. in Tucker Carlson's life. I also would point out that not only did. the daughter. get the extreme amount of retribution, her retribution is sexualized. It has very, very similar to the type of sexualization of.

of daughters. that Donald Trump has done. and has gotten away with. ad nauseum. And it's just been. absolutely stunning to me. So I think there are two things here. I think Tucker Carlson. has some of that. economic anxiety we like to talk about. Tucker ain't got no job. And I mean, people don't have a job. They will do a lot to get some attention. These have not landed the way. he thought they would after he left Fox. And he will say anything to get back on a stage. as number one. And he knows what will do that right. He knows what's the most extreme case.

But I also think. and I'm not sure he would do this. consciously, but I think the fixation. on the daughter, the gendered nature of. that rant, is very much about who they think. the problem is and is the electorate. in this campaign. That's way voters. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. Yeah. And it was also who he was speaking to. like a turning point, big religious crowd. And I don't know how much like, okay, you guys know I'm into the trade wives. I'm also into like the people. that have like, like in Heaven.

and Quiver filled me that movement. And so much of it is. based on disciplining. children like it's like a. cornerstone of the movement. Spare the rod and spoil the child. These are the only white. people in the world who still beat their kids. So I think he also knew it was like, this is what that crowd wants to hear. We're going to have a president. that agrees with you. when you beat your daughter. for doing something relatively minor. So he's like still savvy in that way. But also, I think, you know, some sexual fantasies there as well. I wonder how much of.

everything. America is experiencing in its politics. and in many parts of the world. just boils down to men. feeling like the world is moving in a direction. that they have no place in. And. that's the only reason they're voting the way. they're voting. Like it. Yes, Yes, that. There you go. I mean, you do that. with a sprinkling of climate change. That's the whole shebang. Yeah, that's it.

It really just feels like that. because it's funny you say climate change. literally everything I can. I can tie it back. So you go climate change. The real thing people are angry about. is they're telling you you can't drive a truck. now, You know? And then it's like gender identity. They're telling you that you can't be a man, you know, And then like guns, they're telling you. you can't protect your family. or shoot somebody who you feel. is threatening you or your family. You name the issue. You know what I mean? Like, when it comes to economic the border,

they're saying that. your jobs are going to be taken. It's it's literally. just a response for me. It seems like what they've done. really well is saying, hey, men, this is your political party. and this is your moment. and this is you getting back. It's like MAGA should be like, make. American guys again. You know what I mean? Because it's like. it feels like it's all just about guys. and then the women that. come along with them also. Trevor I like, I agree. completely like male anxiety.

because you know, there's so much research. about men essentially falling. behind like university enrollment, more women than men, just because we got some college. college degrees and more earning power. But there are also women. who are craving the protection of men like I. as a black woman. or my TikTok feed is like black women. have to secure a high value man. Yeah, you know, softly, softly, like, all right, how to do. how to do your hair. and how to wear your makeup.

So you're attract a strong, masculine man. and you live in your feminine energy. So it's like we can blame, like, the male anxiety. But I'm seeing women of my age and younger say, I don't want to do it anymore. I don't want to work anymore. It's scary out there. I would rather be under the authority of a man. He's my one boss. and I'll take whatever comes with that. because I've tried capitalism. and it hasn't worked for me. And I think that's why it's scary. because there's kind of like. the intersection of those desires.

coming from very different places. But there are women out there. that do want to have a man. who can afford to. meantime be the sole owner. and they can stay at home. As much as I think that's a woman's choice. But a lot of women aren't making this out. of a sense of choice. They're making it because the world. is a horrible place. if you're a woman in the workplace. Yeah, marriage has always been. a capitalist fantasy. This has always been cosplaying capitalism. When we feel the most romantic about marriage, it is when capitalism isn't working out.

for us. In a weird way, the fact that black women. are now opting into that fancy. fantasy is its own. sign of progress, believe it or not. But they think that. They think. they have this option. and that black men can provide it for them, because I'm seeing the same thing. Christiana, I, I will say as much as I'm seeing that, however. black men, black women. opting into that, I know so much of that is. driven by my algorithm. and it's who I am and that's fine. Yeah, but I think that the. real sort of threat. there and. has always been the threat.

are white women. who are doing it not just because. of their economic insecurity, but are doing it so that they can defend. the interests of their white sons. Yeah. So, so black women. aren't doing that right, because we know it's not promised for our sons. And so I think this is. why we see white women voters. voting against their own. self-interest in many ways, voting against their own daughters. self-interest and possibility. because they are doubling down. on defending their son's patriarchal privilege.

And that to me, is what is dangerous, because that's not. just about capitalism, right? That's about. like property and violence. and wanting to be on the. right side of the fence. And I think. in that. sort of scenario, this is one of the reasons. why you see women. go to a Donald Trump rally and want him to. sign their boobs. and they have sexualize. him and turn him into a sexual figure, despite the fact that he quite literally. looks like an orange way image. Like we know the man. isn't sexy or attractive. Right. But they are projecting onto them.

what they want to be able. to pass on to their sons. Yet, Tressie. and this is not even me trying to, like, redeem the white woman voter. in any way. because I think. the numbers will speak for themselves. But I did IVF and so I'm. in a lot of IVF groups and communities. And funny enough, the way I did IVF was in Texas. So I would see in the clinics. really young women, I'm. talking women from like 23 to 30. conservative, Christian, etc., etc..

What's been interesting. to me is a lot of these women. who are like churchgoing, typically pro-life life, the abortion ban has kind of overlapped. with the issue of IVF, and they're not happy with that. Do you think there are. enough of those women who are unhappy. with the fact that like, well, when I have a miscarriage, I can't actually get the care I need. because of Roe v Wade falling down. and its implication in places. like Texas and Georgia, etc., etc., do you think there are enough of those women.

that perhaps Harris. may just take it, win and really win? I hope that there are know. that's the way of saying and I well, if you had asked me this actually. when the last time. we were all together, I would have said, yeah I, you know, I see this going. But then I don't know. I saw JD Vance's. response to that. on that debate stage that night. and he was so smooth and papering. that over of saying no, we really are only going after abortion. Of course we want you to be able.

to have babies and we're reasonable. We can we can be moved on that. And while I don't think that's the message. they're getting from Donald Trump, I think. that it was enough for them to think. that there might be a future. where they can keep Trump, but also have this like. moderate voting force there. that won't deny them IVF, but will still deny bad women, sinful women, their access to abortion and birth control. They're not asking for actual policies. They just want assurances. And I think they're willing to lie to give.

to give them that assurance. And I do think they want protections. of IVF like the rulings of. Yes, down in Louisiana, etcetera, have been worrying. And they see a model. Yeah. And they just like make sure that we can. still make embryos and I can make babies. I don't care about the abortions, but now that abortions encroached on that. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. I just I just wonder as as. people are wrapping up the race, Christine, and my main criticism really. would have been less about. appealing to certain voters.

And I think Kamala Harris. and the Democrats spent way too much time. talking about the danger of Donald Trump. And I'll tell you why. The first time around, you can you can use. that as your argument, because people are like, what is this thing? He said he's going to build a wall. He said he's going to he said he's going to. But in the same way that news. and weather channels in America. have lost their ability. to get people to. evacuate when a storm is impending. Yeah, I think the Democrats.

shouldn't take for granted. that You can only say. this thing is going to end. the world so many times. And because he's had a presidency. where the world didn't end, your argument gets undermined. And now I'm not saying now this is. where people make a mistake. People think. that dictatorships. and authoritarian regimes. are built overnight, but they're not right. People think like armies march in the streets. It doesn't happen that way. If you read history. and if you've lived in those countries, you know, it's a very gradual creep.

So I think that's where. people make the mistake. But I do think they spent. too much time doing that because. it's not scary in the same way anymore. And people are like, Yeah, but I lived through a Trump. presidency was annoying, but I don't know. I don't it's not unknown anymore. And I think they could have spent more time. telling people what they would do for them. as opposed to scaring people off. from this like mystery man. who's no longer mystery. Does that make sense, Trevor?

You speaking like she's lost. Say this is why I'm getting. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can. I. Can I tell you something? Yes, I just a few minutes ago. No, no, no, no. Okay, So here's here's the difference for me. Here's the difference for me. I don't think anything is. a foregone conclusion until the day. Right. The election comes down. to a few hundred thousand votes, regardless of the popular votes. So I always have hope. If you remember when when I was. at The Daily Show, I had hope. I mean, hope is the wrong word, maybe, But like,

I thought that Donald Trump could win in 2016. And people were like, You're crazy. And I was like, No, but look, look what he's saying. And look at how it's connecting. and look at what he's. So in the same way, I don't think that it's a foregone conclusion. that Kamala has lost this thing, because I do think. there are a lot. there are a lot of. people out there who are just like. they're bored. They don't want to be part of politics. They don't want to be. But you know what they don't want? They don't want chaos. Yeah, they don't want like. another four years of,

like breaking news every day. They don't want abortion restrictions. They don't want IVF restrictions. They don't want a wall. They but they just quiet. They just like, just leave me alone. I don't even want to be called. a Democrat or a Republican. I think right now in America, actually, this is the largest. treasure. You'll correct me if I'm wrong, because I know, you know numbers. like crazy, but like. it feels like more people than ever. don't have a label to their voting right now. Right. People just are like, no, I'm neither.

No, I'm not even independent. Independent. Just like I'm I mean, I'm undeclared. And I think that's actually a good sign. for Kamala Harris, because an undeclared vote votes. It doesn't vote for Donald Trump. When you're Trump, you're Trump. But an undeclared votes, a can vote for Kamala Harris. and for the Democrats because they go, look, man, I, I might not. I'm not even think you guys are sexy, but let's just keep it moving. So I actually have hope the other way around. If I bet my money, I'm betting like 51% Kamala.

Harris wins the thing. But I wouldn't bet my money. because I don't like those odds. There you go. There you go. I think that's the right. It's yes, I would put your money in your pocket and yeah, keep your money in your pocket, your wallet. Tressie, is there advice that you would give people. on how to maintain their sanity. since everyone's texting you? We may as well. I'm giving you. the opportunity to pre text everyone back. I appreciate that, by the way,

because I don't like sending actual. text messages. You know, I think. as much as professional politicos in. a campaign, people have to. pay attention to polls. I really hate polling culture. and what it has done to us. I mean, it's right up there to me. with like the red and blue maps, right? It just does something to the human psyche. that is not good or healthy. I promise you, the polls are not deterministic. It is okay to check out of that. You are not a bad citizen.

if you don't keep up with the polls. I would argue. you might be a better. citizen if you don't go vote. or at least. have a good reason for not voting. Because I allow those things. I understand those things. But I don't think you need to. follow the polls. And I promise you, if you stop following them, you will feel marginally but measurably better. Go vote. Take somebody with you. if you are inclined to do so. and know that you've done your part. and I'ma tell you I have to watch. the returns come in that night. I'll be up till like 2 a.m. blogging. for the New York Times. I don't think. most Americans need to do that.

I'm I'm not kidding you. I think this is going to be a long, drawn out one. And so, you know, opt out of the back. and forth, you feel a little better. Christiana, a lot of that was just for you. Just it was all for me. Okay. This is really okay. I'll take it with truly all for you. Well, Tressie, this was all for us. Thank you again for joining us. the next time we speak. America may have its new president. We don't. We don't know yet.

They may have elected, let's say. America may have elected its new president. Tracy has agreed to join us on the podcast. next week. I may even be sober. I know I was drunk, Tracy, that night. What can I tell you? We should make that a date. All of us. We just shots. We just go crazy and we'll just do it wrong. Episode Post-election drunk out of our minds. What now? Late Edition. I'm down. I'm down to.

what Now with Trevor Noah. is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership. with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor. Noah Simmons, Jianmin and Jody AV. Again, our senior producer is just Hackel. Claire Slaughter is our producer. music. Mixing and Mastering by Hannah Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode. of What Now?