EmOntheBrain: How to Rewire Your Reality

[music]. >> My idea is. we [music]. create old age homes that are. kindergartens. Yeah? Cuz old people. >> They've done that. [clears throat] Wait, they have? So they've done a RESEARCH. STUDY. >> IDEA. SO IF NO, NO. So they haven't done this. for like as a business. So don't DON'T. DO THIS. NO, BUT THERE IS ACTUALLY RESEARCH to. show your idea would work if I'm clear. on your idea. >> This is why I need you IN MY LIFE. >> [laughter]. >> THIS IDEA IS GREAT, MAN. YOU KNOW HOW.

MANY TIMES I SAY things to people and. then they'll be like, I don't know if. that and if I had you around, you could. be like, there's research to show. Bam! >> [music]. >> This is what now with Trevor Noah. >> [music]. >> Well, I'm going to call you M on the brain, but what What do What do your friends.

call you? [laughter] They call me M. They call you M as well? >> M, yeah. >> this. No, you know, at least you got it right. because a lot of people think it's like. Emon the brain. They think my name's. Emon. Yeah. It's It's a common misconception. So. [laughter]. cuz it's spelled e m o n t h e brain. I mean, it just seems. logical that it would be M on the. Although I can't judge them. If you. don't read the person's name. under their their like.

you know, their tag. What What I guess. it's Emon. Emon the brain. That's a. >> [laughter]. >> I prefer M. Okay, M. Oh, but um. this this is this is what I like to call. a selfish episode because I feel like. Eugene and I are really just going to. ask you to fix our brains for us. >> Perfect. You know what I mean? Because. you you you're you're known as and I've. I've watched your evolution online which. has been really great Um to see from.

afar. It's like. you you shared your journey. studying working in and around you what. were you studying at the time? I was. studying drug addiction. Drug addiction? Oh wow. >> Investigating new ways to treat relapse. to prevent drug addiction or relapse to. drug addiction. Yeah. That's wild. >> Mhm. And so when you were in university what. were you what were you like going into. study cuz how did you get into was it. neuroscience? Was it what what was your. like your your focus and your passion at. the time? Well. initially I was pre-med studying biology.

absolutely hated it and so I went up to. one of my friends that was in my pre-med. org I was in in college and I told him I. hated it. I was like what should I do? And he goes well why don't you try. neuroscience and I hadn't ever even. heard of neuroscience at the time. It. just sounded cool. So I switched my. major to it immediately fell in love. like aced my first exam. My professor. reached out to me. He was like congrats. you couldn't have done better. And I was. like get me in the research lab. This is. so cool. So I started studying learning. memory the perception of time all.

throughout brain development in. undergrad. So that's what I was doing. fell in love with research but I knew I. always kind of knew that I wanted to be. more kind of pre-clinical helping people. more directly like studying learning and. memory is cool but I wanted to be able. to like help people and solve problems. that doctors couldn't solve Wait wait. sorry what does pre-clinical mean? Like. for example so pre-clinical research is. sort of research that happens before you. know we take a med a medication for.

example to clinicians to use right? So. you're doing sort of research to. investigate new ways to treat for. example relapse or treat depression or. anxiety or Parkinson's disease and you. so that's kind of like pre-clinical work. before it goes. to clinicians basically. Yeah and so actually it's funny that you. were kind of talking about nicotine. before this because I used to be. addicted to nicotine and that was sort. of why I initially became passionate. about studying drug addiction and I took.

a class in undergrad about why the. current treatments for relapse don't. work. And they're really just putting. they don't really work because they're. just putting Band-Aids on the symptoms. of the problem rather than actually. solving the problem. And that's why. research is so important because you can. go and investigate what the problem. really is. And so immediately I was. like, this is it. What I'm meant to do. I'm meant to go and cure relapse to drug. addiction. I'm going to go get my PhD. and I'm going to win a Nobel Prize for. this. And so yeah, and so from then I. was like, okay, let me go get my PhD in.

neuroscience. So that is sort of how I. became really passionate about drug. addiction research and how I the path. that led me to the PhD. So yeah, moved. to Arizona, started my PhD in. neuroscience with a minor in medical. pharmacology so that I could study drug. addiction. And that's what I was doing. for a few years. That's really crazy. I. mean, did it work for you? Did did did. the research help you? >> How do you know? Because she had to go. to university to do it. >> [laughter]. >> You Oh, you don't you don't know. Are.

you making these assumptions? >> I'm He is making assumptions and I would. say. I would say the research in itself, no, but my knowledge of the brain, absolutely yes. I taught myself to. associate Um and it was vaping for me, but I taught my brain to associate it. with just the feeling of disgust. You rewired. >> I had your brain. >> Yes. >> So you took a feeling that you didn't. have before for something that you liked. >> Mhm. and then recoded it. >> Yep. >> And said, this this is disgusting. >> Yep. The action of it. It's exactly what. I did.

>> Buying it, putting it in my pocket, put. it into my mouth. >> So I would let my I would let myself. carry it around still and I would let. myself have the craving and I would I. would put it in a place where it took me. a second so that there was kind of a gap. between. the initial craving and the action of. actually doing it because that's what. addiction is, right? It becomes like. this mind mindless stimulus-response. behavior, where the stimulus is like. seeing the vape or seeing the cigarette. or whatever it is, and then immediate. response. Or, for example, social media. You see the notification, all of a. sudden you're picking up your phone and.

you're scrolling, and you don't even. know how you got there, right? So, it's. I kind of added a little bit of space, where I still would carry it around. I'd. put it like I would drive and I'd put it. underneath the passenger seat in my car, and I'd get that craving and I would. like at a red light, you know, it gave. me some time to kind of rewire that. association. And the brain's an. association machine. You're in a. relationship with everything in your. life. So, yeah, I would pick it up and. I'd be like, "Oh, no, this is. disgusting." And even if I wanted to. still hit it, I would, but then I would. make sure to like pay attention to the. feeling of feeling gross that I just did.

it. And I would sit in that feeling and. and really feel the feeling and make. sure my brain was paying attention to. it. And over time, yeah. And so, even. after I quit, I would get that craving. still, of course, and then immediately. my brain would remember, "Oh, yeah, no, that's gross. We don't really want. that." Okay, wait. So, help help us. understand or [clears throat] help me. understand, really, the the. the process of what's actually. happening, because you're saying this. about vaping. You're saying, you know, "Disgusting.". I'm In my head, I'm like, "Oh, but. there's strawberry flavors." I don't. even vape, by the way. Never smoked. But.

in my In my I love strawberries. I'm. like, that's how they'd get me. But I I I can I feel like I can have the. same I have the same story with like ice. cream late at night or, you know, chocolate. And then somebody else might. have it with social media, where they. go, "Oh, that's exactly me. Every time I. pull it out, I've lost I've lost two, three hours, four hours, but I didn't actually want. to be here." Yeah. So, how how does that work? First of all, what is happening to the brain when it's. when you're doing that when you're doing.

something you don't necessarily want to. do, but you keep finding yourself doing? What is happening to the brain? And then. I want to get to how the rewiring. actually works. Yeah. So, what's. happening is really just maladaptive. habit formation, and that just means the. formation of bad habits. That's all it. is. It's just learning. And I think, you know, in undergrad I. was definitely divinely led on the path. toward studying learning and memory. first because then I really understand. the process of learning, and it's really. all it is is you've just learned a. behavior. Your brain has learned a. behavior, and it's learned to automate.

that behavior so that it's no longer a. conscious act. For example, getting up. in the morning and hopefully brushing. your teeth is an automated behavior. [clears throat]. Thank you. >> [laughter]. >> Thank you. >> they know? They'll never know. Well, I'm hoping I'm hoping that that's. an automatic behavior for [laughter]. you. >> okay, okay, but yeah, before but but. before you move on from that, then why why is it that. good habits are harder to keep? Like, I. know that working out is good for me. I. know that going for a walk is good for.

me. I know that stretching is good for. me. I know I I know all these things. And then I'll do them, and I'll feel. good after doing them. But then I don't I don't find myself. craving like a gym session. I don't find. myself being like, "You know what would. be nice right now? A little bench press. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. I know it's midnight, but. I can sneak in a little 250. You see, I like to do that sometimes, but I'll tell you, there's a couple. things there. All right, so if you want. to talk about the neuroscience of habit. formation, the way that every single. habit is formed is it first begins as a.

dopamine driven activity, right? So, when social media first came out, you. weren't going on social media out of. habit. You went on there because you. could connect with your friends. Okay. Or you could, you know, see you could. post something or whatever it is, right? You're you went on there for a a goal, for a reason. Um same thing with ice cream or, you. know, vaping, whatever it is. You You. started it because it felt good. That's. why you started. Okay, so feel good is. the first thing. Right. And then that. dopamine, so dopamine actually drives.

learning. It drives neuroplasticity, which is the ability for your brain to. rewire. So, dopamine drives learning. So, and dopamine does isn't just. released when something great happens, it's also released when something not so. great happens. It's more of a a salience. molecule, which means like look at me. So, anything that really like grabbed. your attention, that's why you have. really strong memories of bad events as. well because they're emotional and they. raise dopamine as well, just in a. different way. So, yeah, anything that. really boosts dopamine, it will drive.

that learning, right? And so, what. actually happens is that over time. the dopamine moves from being released. when you get the good thing to being. released. whenever you see sort of a cue or. something that represents that good. thing, right? So, for example, it's. super super easy to just talk about it. with, you know, drugs of abuse, but we. can talk about ice cream. It initially. you got dopamine from eating ice cream, but over time you get the dopamine from.

seeing the ice cream because your. brain's anticipating a reward. So, your. dopamine moves from actually getting the. reward to the anticipation of the reward. and that's craving. So, that's sort of how habit formation. works and then once that happens, then. you kind of begin this this. it goes from this goal-directed. behavior, right? And it moves to um a. stimulus response behavior or a cue. response where like before it was like, oh, I want to eat this ice cream because.

I know like I want to eat this ice. cream, it's going to taste good. And now. it's like, oh, no, I see the ice cream, dopamine is released when I see the. carton and that's going to drive me cuz. dopamine is also a molecule of action to. go and eat it. And you're not even you. don't want to, it's just that your. dopamine has learned to associate the. picture of the ice cream that you're. seeing with a reward and now you're not. even deciding it. It's just your brain. is driving you to do it. This is why ads work. Yeah. But it But I. guess.

it also explains to me why ads are more. effective when you've actually had the. thing. Mhm. So sometimes I'll watch an. ad. for like Taco Bell for instance. Taco. Bell ads come on all the time. It's. never never ever once made me go, "I. want Taco Bell." because I haven't had. Taco Bell in my life. I don't Ever? Maybe I had it once. I think I I had it. once on the road when I was with Gabriel. Iglesias and then we bought one of my. favorite memories. We were on the road somewhere. where were we? Maybe we were in we were.

in El Paso, Texas or maybe somewhere in. that region. And. after all the after a comedy show we'd. go and we'd just buy, you know, food. whatever take out. And then one day. Gabriel and the gang we were in the we. were in the tour bus and then he's like. uh he said to me he's like, "Yo yo um. he's like, do you want to get some Taco. Bell?" I was like, "I've never had Taco. Bell." Everyone in the bus is like, "YOU'VE NEVER HAD TACO BELL?" IT WAS. LITERALLY LIKE AN AD. EVERYONE, "YOU'VE. NEVER HAD WE GOT TO GET HIM TACO BELL.". >> driver pop pop Yo pop pop. All the way to Taco Bell. >> [laughter]. >> So now we're driving this giant tour bus.

like pop pop. Taco Bell here we come. We get there. Now we want to go through the. drive-thru. We can't cuz the bus is too. big. So we have to walk through the. drive-thru cuz the the Taco Bell itself. was closed. So we walk through the. drive-thru. >> [snorts]. >> And then they just. like we ordered for everyone on the bus. plus more cuz they wanted me to taste. everything. And I'll never forget. there's a moment where I'm walking back. to the bus. and I'm carrying two bags but I mean. like huge [snorts] huge huge huge bags.

I felt like Julia Roberts in Pretty. Woman. You know when like you I come. back from shop but with Taco Bell. Guys, I've never felt sexier in my life cuz I. love food. I was like and I'm walking to. the bus and Gabriel Iglesias he's. looking at me like from the bus and he. looked and it was almost like we had the. same thought cuz as I got to the bus he. looked at me and he's like, "You've. never looked hotter.". >> [laughter]. >> And I walked on. But that was the only. time I ate it, right? And I was like, "Okay, whatever." I was going to say. what did you think? Yeah, it was meh. It. was what it was whatever. Mhm. But it it didn't it wasn't something.

that like. it didn't stay with me. So, genuinely, whenever I watch a Taco Bell ad, I don't. have a oh, I should get that now. But. Pizza Hut or like a McDonald's or one. Let them flash a McFlurry on the screen. for half a second. >> Yeah. I will find that machine wherever it is. >> Yeah. I will turn it on myself. >> Hey, my friend. He's the only guy I know. who chews ice cream. Yo, bro, you know. me and you love me. You see you you see. me. [laughter].

You you see me, Eugene. Chews ice cream. >> it. It's so cute. >> I chew it. >> You just chew it. >> I I savor it. I. He's like an ice cream sommelier. This guy loves me. This guy knows me. No, but that's what I. mean. It's like So, like the ads have. more power over you. >> Yeah. When you've actually experienced. the thing Do you get what I'm saying? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Right, right, right. Because your brain. has learned that it's rewarding. Wow. So, then it becomes now it becomes a. trigger. That's how it can work on you. It's like because now you've had it, when you watch the ad or when you see.

like the social media thing scroll. I think also This explains so much. What. you're saying also explains why going. cold turkey on anything never works. Because anything that you love, there's. a process to it. Like how we explained. you going into the shop, choosing a. flavor. paying for that, getting the reward of. paying for it cuz you now have it now, you put in your pocket. But all of. sudden, if the whole process is cut. short, then the reward is not there. anymore. Then you start missing the. thing more. But I find that when you. have the vape inside your car, but you. choose not to do it, then you're slowly.

taking away the. >> Yeah. the one for it, right? >> that you made that point of like feeling. stressed too because that was another. thing and that's why I decided to do it. the way that I did because when you go. cold turkey, it almost, especially when. you're addicted to something, you feel. this sense of like stress without it and. not having it. And stress reduces. activity in the prefrontal cortex, which. is the area of your brain that allows. you to control your impulses. Yes. >> So, it actually makes you and that's. why, you know, when people quit an. addiction or something and all of a. sudden they feel stressed, they are more.

likely to relapse because it your. ability to control your impulses is. reduced. But, here's my thing. Do we quit things. that we're addicted to because they're. hurting other people? Or do we quit because they're hurting. us? Cuz initially, everything there was. a dopamine spike. I like what I was. doing. I was having too much of a good. time at the strip club. Now I have kids. >> [laughter]. >> Now I have to think, do I tip strippers. or do I pay for school fees? Is it the. strippers or is it the kids? Am I. stopping this because I [laughter] want. to stop or because they're crying.

because they're hungry now? Oh my. god. >> These analogies are so crazy. [laughter]. So, Trevor thinks this is really funny. I'm sorry. You choose ice cream. No. >> [laughter]. >> No, but I'm sitting here like thinking. about this very much from my own. perspective and experience and the way. that I decided was it's always about who. I'm wanting to become. And it's always. about that. And you know, you can never. force somebody to quit something they. don't want to. Like you have to want to. do it. And I think for me, I didn't care. to quit vaping. I didn't care how many.

ads showed me what happens to your. lungs. Like I didn't care about any of. that. I was young. I don't care about. that. I don't care about my health. Like. whatever. The The thing that actually. made me care about stopping was. understanding that there is a gap. currently between who you are now and. the version of you who's achieved. everything you've ever wanted in life. Damn. >> And when you visualize that version of. you, when you have hold that version of. you in your mind, like that version of. you has different habits than you do. right now. And the version of me who's.

boss woman, like achieving everything, she doesn't vape. And so, I was like, damn, like if I want to become that. version of me and achieve everything I. want to achieve, then I need to stop. doing this because it's creating a gap. between where I am now and where I want. to go. >> So, this is this is I think something. that. attracted a lot of people. to your account and to what to your work. online is like. there were a lot of people who would. give you information about the brain in. a very technical way.

They'd help you understand how your. brain works, what your brain does, you. know, dopamine and there's all these. phrases, you know, like. a stimulus and neopriniprin. and like all these things. >> Neuroplasticity. Plasticity and Maybe. you were trying to say norepinephrine. I. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. [laughter] That's exactly But you knew. what I was trying to say. You see? You. see? That's That's exactly what it Cuz. every time I see that word, I'm just. like, "Hey man, neopriniprin.". I I knew what you meant. >> Thank you very much. Neopriniprin. [laughter] Have you ever seen how it's. written? No. Neopriniprin. Exactly like.

that. >> It is written like that. Neopriniprin. All right. [laughter]. And then. people just sort of just you you think. you know. And you're like, "Oh, the new. neopriniprin and the dopamine and then. the serotonin and the oxytocin." And. okay. And then on the other side of like. let's say the internet {slash} the. world, you have people who are like, "Visualize and think about what you want. in life." And what I and I think a lot. of people would call like woo-woo, you. know? They'd be like, "Visualize." And. you're like, "All right." And a lot of. people love that and swear by it. And.

then. I I find these two worlds have often. been at odds. Mhm. So, someone who's. like deep in the science goes like, "Don't listen to that." And someone. who's deep in the woo-woo goes like, "Don't listen to the other thing." Mhm. And then you started showing the. connection between the two. You went. like, "No, no, no. No, let me explain. how a meditation. does something to your brain. And let me. show you how your brain responds to what. you want to what you think. And let me. show you how a visualization shifts you. and shapes you.

How did How did you start thinking that? Because I'm I'm assuming you didn't. learn that in school. No. And I [snorts] actually get asked all. the time, "Any books you recommend?" I'm. like, it's very much a connection. between two disciplines that I love and. that fulfill me. But yeah, I would say. in school when I was getting my first. neuroscience degree. yeah, I have two degrees in. neuroscience. >> [laughter]. >> One for you and me each Eugene to make. up for the degrees we never got. >> [laughter]. >> He said first?

Thank you. I appreciate that. >> [laughter]. >> I do too. So yeah, when I was getting my first. degree in neuroscience and studying. especially just the different sensory. systems. So for example, your visual. system and how your brain. [clears throat] constructs everything. that you see that you're not seeing the. world with your eyes. Your eyes are just. taking it taking in light signals and. then those light signals travel through. the brain where your thoughts, emotions, memories, your beliefs, who you who you. believe you are all that's incorporated.

before you the image is even put. together that you see by your brain. >> Wait, let let's let's slow that down. Just just go back on that because you're. going to say it and then we're going to. act like we completely got it. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Your eyes are not seeing. They're only taking in light. >> Right. Okay, and that light is then going into. The brain. Traveling through the brain. all these different areas. But it's. basically being bent by your memories, the way you think about the world, and.

your current emotions. You ever heard. the saying seeing the world through. rose-colored lenses? When you are when. you are in a positive emotional state, your brain actually constructs color as. more vivid. So you actually see the. world more vividly and more saturated. So literally the world is more colorful. and you actually are seeing the world. through rose-colored lenses. That that. means there's almost a scientific. backing behind the phrase woke up on the. wrong side of bed. Yeah. Yeah, your energy state it is so.

important and then that goes back to. exactly what you were asking me about is. is you know, how did I start to connect. spirituality and these woo-woo things. with neuroscience? And I think, you. know, exactly when I was learning about. these different systems, and vision is. just one of them. They all work this. way. Like, for example, sound and the. way that you hear. Like, the membrane in. your ears organized by frequency. And if. you're on the woo-woo side of the world, you you may have heard before that. different frequencies of sound can have. different effects on you. >> yeah. Like, sound bowls and all of those.

things. >> frequency, 528, 432. And both of those. have studies showing that they do. actually impact the brain in different. ways. Um and binaural beats and things. like that. So, literally, actually, it. all clicked one moment when I was laying. in bed one night in my apartment um. whenever I was in undergrad, and I just. was listening to and I sort of went on. this spiritual journey toward the end of. my first degree in neuroscience, and I I. read the book The Untethered Soul. Have. you guys ever heard of that? It's really. good. Um but and so I I started.

meditating, and I started, you know, doing like and I I was laying in bed. listening to 432 hertz as I was falling. asleep. And I was like, "Whoa, wait a. minute. The membrane in the ears organized by. frequency. What if this certain. frequency of sound is activating my. brain in a specific way. and actually changing the way that my. state of mind is? And that's why these. frequencies of sound work." And I turn. over, pick up my phone, Google it, and.

there are papers showing exactly what. just popped into my head. Like, yeah, 432 hertz has been shown to boost alpha. wave activity in the brain. Alpha waves. are associated with a sense of calm. And. so, you know, people on the woo-woo side. of the world say, "Oh, it's really good. for meditation or sleep." And then in. the science world, it has been shown to. help people fall asleep, stay asleep, boost alpha waves in the brain. And so, that was kind of my first moment of "Oh, maybe there is some overlap, and there.

are some. overlap between the different worlds. >> Right. And so that kind of just started. me on this spiral this upward spiral of. just connecting dots everywhere and and. yeah, and I think I've just got and. then, you know, moving to Arizona I was. just talking to your team about Arizona. and it's the desert is a very spiritual. place. And moving there while doing my. PhD and just really growing in my. spirituality while also, of course, doing a PhD in neuroscience. So, really. studying neuroscience to like the depths. that you could And yeah, I just started.

connecting all these dots and then also. connecting what I was learning with my. own experiences as well. And I think a. lot of people ask me, you know, where. does this information come from? And. most of it the information I share is. from my own lived experience and then. I'm like, "Huh, I wonder what's. happening in my brain right now?" And. then I think about it, look into it, read some papers, and I'm like, "That. makes sense." And then I talk about it. We're going to continue this. conversation right after this short. break.

All right, Eugene. >> [music]. >> Let's play a little game. You know, make. something fun. Two truths and a lie. >> Mhm. Here we go. One, I've had to tell a world leader. that their fly was undone. Two, when getting dressed, I don't do. sock sock shoe shoe, I do sock shoe sock. shoe. Three, I've been a Verizon customer for. 11 years. What do you think? Mhm. Very confused. First of all, why. would a world leader own a fly? Cuz those things just come uninvited.

Secondly, lying to your friend is not. cool. It's never been a game. No, Eugene. A fly is for like the zip is. what. And then it's it's it's not a lie, it's. a game where I'm try It's like I give. you inform. Okay, I lied. All three are true, Eugene. And in case you were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as. you think. In fact, if you bring in your. AT&T or T-Mobile bill, they'll give you. a better deal. And the reason I've been with them for. this long is just because I travel so.

much. I need a network that's reliable. That's right. A better deal on the best. network with the most ways to save on. plan streaming and phone deals. Take. your AT&T or T-Mobile built to your. local Verizon store today. Get your. better deal. and start saving for real. Based on root. metrics best overall mobile network. performance US second half 2025 all. rights reserved. You must provide recent. consumer mobile bill in the name of the. person redeeming the deal. Additional. terms, conditions, and restrictions.

apply. So, do you understand how two truths and. do you understand it now? >> I understand that you didn't have to lie. first before telling me that Verizon is. a better. No, I wasn't lying. Eugene, it's not a lie. I wouldn't lie to you. It's a game. >> [music]. >> Okay, I'm sorry. I lied. Ah. >> [laughter]. [music].

>> I I I wonder. why. / how. we got to a place where we. we got so comfortable dismissing. a spirituality or the ideas that come. with like. you know, connecting to something beyond. ourselves. >> Mhm. and having that clash with what we think. of as like intelligence and knowledge. and. >> Yeah. Do do do you get what I'm saying? >> religion had a big part in that. What do. you mean? Because remember that um once religion.

became a thing, people had to attribute. their knowledge to something. Mhm. Yeah. It could never be I just know it. You. know, we always have There's always this. debate in the spiritual realm of are you. a human having a spiritual experience or. you a spirit having a human experience? And most people feel like when they. discover themselves in the middle of. their life, whenever it is, they were a. human and now they're having a spiritual. experience, but I think it's the other. way around. And obviously, literature. has proved that and also when they speak. to people who know that. So, religion. always. >> wait, wait, wait, wait, so you're saying.

cuz I mean we can we can never prove it. I'm with you 100% by the way. No, but we. can never prove it. But I'm I'm in I'm. intrigued by what you're saying. You're. saying. the argument or the discussion is are we. spirits that are experiencing. being human or are we humans. experiencing being spirits? >> Yes. Yes. But you can't prove it. >> human having a spiritual experience or. are we a spirit having a human. experience? >> Yeah. So, the [snorts] thing is if you. want to prove Well, that's a small part. of it and you can correct me if I'm. wrong, M, that you're a spirit having a. human experience. >> Eman.

Please get our guest's name right. >> Eman. [laughter]. Now you're going to confuse the. listeners. >> it's Em, it's Em, yeah, it's Em, it's. Em. >> [laughter]. >> Is before you have language, before you. have experience, you always had. intuition. Mhm. So, how do you account. for that? So, before you Yeah, no, I'm I'm. No, >> So, so there's something there's a. remembering that's coded in you already. >> Mhm. And as you grow older and you get. interference of signals, of society, the. time that you were born in,

um how hard or how easy your life was, all of that gets numbed down and then. you start living according to your. experiences. >> Yes, but this is what I'm trying to This. is the question This is the question. This is the question that I have for you. though. Go. Uh. like I guess for both of you, I guess in. a way is like We are ready for There's. two degrees between us. >> [laughter]. >> Of separation, not not academic. >> [laughter]. >> That was a good one. The the the the the The thing I find. interesting is is is is so.

I grew up in a very religious household, right? And. the thing that I always struggled with. and grappled with was how churches. and leaders in churches and even members. of churches would treat people using. their religion as an excuse. Right. And. we see this all over the world, but my. personal experience, I often times found. myself going. wait, is this So, this is what. this is what a Christian does? I was. like, I don't know, man. I don't know. It just.

It didn't It didn't gel for me. And so, I think that created a a an an. allergy to all religion in many ways. As. I've gotten older, I've. I found in like a humbling way, I've. gone like, oh, there are so many. things that religion teaches people. apart from like, you know, dogma Yes. that now science has sort of come around. to. So, whether it's like prayer itself, >> [snorts]. >> when you think about journaling and the. effects of journaling and the processing.

I'm and I'd love for you to speak a. little bit about this, closing your eyes. and thinking about your day before you. go to sleep. I I see all these things coming out now. where scientists are like, oh, that. really helps you go to sleep and it also. helps your brain sort of like just. switch everything off, you know what I. mean? But like, so so something. something like that or or something like. fasting, which most religions have or. all these things you're starting to see. more of the ties where science is sort. of catching up. to old ideas.

and then old ideas are showing. themselves in science. I like. Where do you think the breakdown came. between people saying, oh, we shouldn't listen to that and now. we're going, maybe we should listen to. some of that. Yeah, I think honestly, there used to be. a lot more overlap. There used to be a. lot more in science and in research in. especially like in the 1900s, there was. a lot of research especially I mean, even with psychedelics and things like. that. And what happened was there were a. few scientists that just took it a bit.

too far and it got to the point where in. the science world, it became. Yeah, I kind of started how this dogma. around it and this sort of like. association around it and it it became. almost disrespected in a way and and it. right and exactly especially with. something as simple as hypnosis for. example like there's so much like. judgement and woo woo around it but it. there's so much neuroscience around it. as well but because it has this sort of.

like. I don't know. >> Well the gimmick as well let's be honest. once you're making somebody jump on. stage and they say they're a dog I think. it undermines what hypnosis may or may. not be and I'm not saying that thing is. not real by the way Yeah I think that's. exactly the analogy that I'm trying to. make here is that it kind of that. happened with a lot of the different you. know research studies that were going on. and it happened in not just hypnosis but. in other areas as well for example like. psychedelics there used to be a lot more. research on it and then scientists took. took it too far and then it became oh no.

that's wrong we shouldn't be doing that. and then we went from 100 to zero and. then now we're starting to warm back up. to it again and we're slowly introducing. it more and more into research and in. studies but also I think it's still I. think it's still not really you know. supported I mean whenever I was in the. PhD there's this one research lab that. they studied mindfulness and meditation. that lab was not well funded that lab. did not get a lot of money for research. and I think that still is the case today.

so now while we're seeing more you know. research on spiritual concepts and. spirituality I think it's still not. happening to the extent that it should. be. and and yeah I think that that's been my. experience and then even now when I'm. talking about things that I'm talking. about online I'm doing research into. really more hardcore scientific concepts. like neuroplasticity the default mode. network the reward system all of that. and just knowing because I have such a. solid foundation of that Right okay got.

it. >> information and then [clears throat] I'm. and then I'm learning about you know the. law of detachment and all these things, and then I'm connecting it to what I. already know is true about the brain. So, it's not necessarily that there's a. specific study that shows, you know, detachment [snorts]. makes your goals come faster. It's more. about me knowing that yeah, when you are. in desperation and in this neediness, then that's going to boost cortisol. And. when you are in a state of fight or. flight, you get that deer in headlights. tunnel vision, where you're actually.

less open to opportunities and other. things coming your way. And the brain is. filtering for more of that lack and. stress, because that's the way the brain. works. It filters your reality for. whatever it is that you're focused on. So, I just know how the brain works, and. then I connect it to spiritual kind of. concepts and things that I'm learning. >> Which are Which are oftentimes easier to. understand, I find. That That's where I find science is. often lacking, science and academia. My. criticism of it is often the fact that. And maybe not of it.

It does its job. And then I feel like there's there's not. enough like sort of. middle men who are getting the message. out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, then it's. just like a study, and and it's. abstract, and then it's just left to the. the devices of the world to be like, this is what it actually means. But but. then from the other side, there's very. good salesmen. >> Yeah, yeah. People did try. I think um. I read a lot of books that were written. by people who grew up in the '60s and. were raised by hippies. Uh the Gary Zukavs, um Dr. Wayne Dyer,

all of those people who kind of. understood that to sell. spiritualism or spiritualism, you're. going to have to be a bit commercial and. go around and bring your life. experiences. I'm a doctor, I was in the. army. My experiences brought me this. But they knew that they were selling a. time bomb that was going to explode in. the future, 30, 40 years down the line, because people were not ready. And. obviously, if you think of. if if hypnosis was taken for what it is, hypnosis is one stage of past life. regression. Is what? Is Is one stage of actually.

doing past life regression. >> even know what that means. >> But when when when it goes to a show in. Las Vegas that it becomes people barking. like dogs. Wait, but you can't just skip. past what you just said. I know. >> Eugene does this to me all the time. Then he just says a thing. >> I'm I'm understanding what you said. >> I'm not. >> [laughter]. >> I'm not and I'm sure there's a lot of. people who are not. But that I don't. even care about them right now. Just me. What did you just say? I think. >> Yes. hypnosis is just one part of. >> of doing a past life regression. What. does that Yes, what does that mean? >> So a lot of people There's a There's a. doctor I think you know about Brian.

Weiss? I don't know if I do know. >> He did a lot of work studying people. He. was a professor a doctor in university. He started having this patient who was. struggling with certain issues and then. she he did hypnosis and then they. regressed further and further back. Then. he realized many one one body many lives. is was one of his books if I'm not. mistaken. >> So he found out that a lot of things. that people deal with is the body. remember or your mind remembers what you. happened to you in other lives. So when.

you go back in other lives so people who. have a fear of of drowning and an. unreasonable fear of drowning. So. >> They've drowned in another life before. and somehow there's something that. happens that triggers that memory. The. smell of water or sea water or salt that. triggers that memory. So to cure that. fear you have to past life regress them. They have to go back into a life where. something tragic happened. Yes. And that. thing was associated with it. >> So it's funny. half of my brain completely rejects this.

idea. Yes. Uh but I mean you know me I. always tell you these things. Half of my. brain goes like no. The other half of my brain goes. >> [snorts]. >> we've had a trauma specialist on the. show who studied trauma her whole life. and she has showed us. that there's definitive research that. has shown that trauma can be passed down. through generations of people who. haven't experienced the initial trauma. >> Yes. Mhm. So there's half of my brain. that goes like, "Oh, I.

I can understand this being possible, but not in the And that's what I mean by. This is what I mean by the woo-woo. versus not woo Does that make sense? >> the world of woo-woo, what you've just. explained is the fact that there's soul. families. >> No, no, no. I. >> [laughter]. >> No, but look look look. No, We remember. the pain together. >> Yes, but but I get what you're saying. But I But I But do you understand what. I'm saying? I'm saying like. So, sometimes this is This is what I. think happens. And this is why I mean I. enjoy your journey so much is. we. I think we all live in a world where we.

are most comfortable with the reality. that we've been brought up in Mhm. and. with the evidence that we've been taught. to accept as being correct, right? >> It is very difficult to shake that, and. it's very difficult to accept a. possibility that something else could be. different. But when you move through. different worlds, you realize that it's. necessary. So, an example for me was um. There were a lot of criticisms levied at. African mothers for how they would raise.

their children. >> Yeah. By like Westerners who'd come in, whether it was colonizers, whether it. was, you know, whatever it was before. Like they'd go, "Oh, this is wrong. This. is wrong. This is wrong. The way African. mother This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong.". Things they'd complain about them. wrapping the baby onto their bodies and. like tying them up, and they'd be like, "No, you should put your baby in a cot, and you should leave them this, and you. should. And then over the years, when they. started doing studies, there were scientists and there were. groups that did studies where they found. that having the baby up against the mom.

was really good for regulating their. heartbeats, >> Mhm. changing their respiratory patterns, calming them down, fostering trust, all. of these things. And then do you I. remember this moment distinctly. Do you. remember when they started launching the. things that African moms had had their. whole lives, and they started selling. them in the Western world, and they're. like, "The new trend! You wrap your baby. to your body." And now it was like $200. to buy a thing that an African mom did. with a towel. I remember this for me being a moment. where I went, "Oh, wow. Yes.".

Even I was taught. that that thing is like primitive. Mhm. Your mom did it, but it was primitive, and there's a better way to do it. And. then. at some point science or you know, researchers went, "Oh, actually this is. a great thing to do." And sort of did. didn't didn't levy the credit that way. So, I'm I'm open to some of these ideas. I. think some of the language throws me. I'm not going to lie. Cuz some people are more comfortable. with when you just like past lives, then. I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." In my head.

I'm hearing a record go. But when you explain the concepts behind. it, I find that maybe I'm not the only. person who's a little more open to the. possibility of understanding it. It's. just when you throw past lives. flippantly. The terminology is it really. I'm not going to lie throws me. Yeah, I. think and I know and I think that's I I. like what you just described also. because that's something that I really. hold true for my own life is always. following your own sense of intuition. And I think that if you're waiting.

around for a study to show you that. something is right or wrong, then you're. you're going to be waiting forever. because science is really slow. But also. just because a study shows something too. doesn't mean that it is right or wrong. There are outliers in every single. study. And so, just because something. might work for one person, you could be. that one dot on the graph that it. doesn't work for It could be a flawed. study as well. And and yeah, exactly. And a lot of studies are very biased, too. That I mean, I used to do them. So, I would like [laughter] like I've seen. the types of people, you know, and I'm. not saying that, you know, they're peop-. people not trying their best, but you.

know, it's like humans are human and. they are going to make human mistakes. But What what what don't we understand. about studies? What like. because you know, as the internet has. has exploded. >> Yeah. As Tik Tok has become popular, everyone I see on TikTok. references a study. And I mean everyone. And I've seen everyone reference any. study to say the thing that they're. saying. is correct. But I've seen every And then. I've seen people pull up the same study.

and go, "No, no, no, this is not the. study." And then then someone else says, "A meta-analysis is more correct." So, help us understand a study. So, for. everyone out there, for us as well, when. you're conducting a study, help me. understand the very basic mechanics of. what is actually happening and how that. leads to a conclusion that then like CBS. This Morning will report and be like, "Coffee makes you live 20 years longer.". How do they get there? >> think those a lot of the. like claims that are made end up being. in the discussion, which aren't even.

necessarily the point of the study. It's. more just speculation of how these. results can be applied to and. extrapolated to other situations in. life. But the way that a study begins is. by asking a question, right? So, we have. we have this background of information, and I studied, you know, in my PhD a. very specific receptor that we thought. got leaky when we were relapsing the. drugs. Leaky brain. >> And yeah, so leaky calcium channel. And. so, [laughter] We know one. We're friends with one. And yeah.

>> Shut up, BRO. LEAKY. >> [laughter]. >> AND YEAH, AND SO YOU YOU HAVE this. background of information, right? And. you know some things about it from other. areas of research, and you're like, "Okay, it seems well-informed." And you. don't just make a random ask a random. question, but it seems well-informed. And so, it's like, "Okay, now I think. based on what I know about this calcium. channel, I think it could have something. to do with relapse." And then you you. you have to basically say a hypothesis, right? Like, "I think that if I, for. example, block this channel, then.

these, you know, then relapse behavior. relapse easy they're gone or it will. happen more, right? So, you have to. decide one way or the other. And then. you decide you design a study that you. think will help to answer that question. And now, the way that that study works. and the results of it is you no matter. what results you get, right? You either. say that you either you don't ever say. like, "Oh, I was right or I was wrong.". You're basically just testing to see. if those if the results are more if one.

thing is more likely to happen than the. other. It's all likelihood. It's never. It's never a definitive yes or no. It's. This is definitely, you know, this is. more likely to not be the case or more. likely is the case that, you know, if I. block this channel, then this these. people are no longer going to relapse. >> Okay. But, what else is it affecting in their. lives, I guess, right? Well, that's a. whole other topic when we talk about. pharmacology, which was a whole other. kind of path that I went down whenever I. was Right. So, whenever I was also like.

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was in. high school and I was on ADHD medication. for a few years and then I learned about. exactly what you're talking about. Like, what else happens and how do these drugs. actually work? And then I made my own. personal decision to transition off of. them and go a different journey and then. rewire my brain to be able to focus as. well. But, yeah, and so I think that a lot of. times we tend to put these studies or. research papers up on pedestals and say, "Oh, this study shows this. Therefore, this is the way things are." And I don't.

think that that's the way that it should. be done at all. It can be used for. information to inform, you know, yourself, but also like you were saying, meta-analysis where they you take tons. of different studies and kind of look at. the results from many different ones cuz. another thing that you'll realize is. that if you look up something, you could. probably find a study proving that. you're right. And it could be I could. look up, "Oh, you know, this is bad for. your heart." And and I'll find a study. proving that. And I could say, "Oh, actually, I think it's good for your. heart." And I could find a study proving. that, too. And so, that's the thing is.

you can find a study to prove whatever. it is that you want. And so, I think it. it is important to, you know, read a lot. and read a lot of different research. papers, but also have more of a. foundational understanding is at least. in my field of neuroscience like having. that foundational understanding of the. way that the brain works is really. important. And so, yeah, I think that. the whole it is becoming really popular. that people are wanting to use a study. to improve a point and I don't think. that there's anything wrong with that, but I do think it's important to.

recognize that, you know, there are you. can find a study to prove whatever that. you want these days. How did you How did. you apply this in your life because. I I find. the internet / the world is full of. people who. are more than willing to dish out advice. and then. oftentimes don't seem to apply that. advice to themselves. Do you you know. what I mean? And so, you get these motivational. speakers who when you meet them in real.

life aren't really motivated. You. [snorts] you you have like relationships. experts who have terrible relationships. themselves. You you Do you get what I'm. saying? And and I'm I'm generalizing but. but but you'll often you'll find these. What I found interesting with you is. and you'll correct me if I'm wrong. It. It feels like you were also running. these sort of experiments on yourself. and I I watched your life change in real. time and over a very long period I must. say. >> because I went to DM you and I was like, "Whoa, you DM'd me like almost 2 years.

ago about a podcast.". >> were doing Yeah, 2 years ago I asked you. to come on the podcast and there's but. I've watched you go from Wait, aren't we. glad that was all you did? >> [laughter]. >> Because. No, those those those DMs I save for. you, Eugene. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, Eugene. You You up. You up. I represented you well, hey. >> [laughter]. >> YOU WERE LIKE, "TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS. and you can COME TO THE. SHOW.". >> SO, UM. WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN I looked at your.

life, I went. it it it felt like just by watching you. I saw somebody who was sharing. information whilst also applying that. information to themselves. [clears throat]. Yeah, that's exactly what I. I'd love to know what your journey was. like because. everything everything about you changed. over time. And over time is the key. thing for me, the key phrase here. I didn't witness like a a magical.

transformation. You know like those. those YouTube um. uh um videos weightlifting they trick. you all the time. Have you seen those. ones? They're like how I lost 40 lb in 6. weeks and then they show you a before. and after picture and really all they do. in the before picture is they just push. their tummy out but they still have a. six-pack and they just maybe drink a lot. of water, I don't know and then they get. shredded but they were shredded. Yeah. With you, with all due respect, it. didn't seem like you were shredded in. your life. No. And then I watched you. slowly work towards the thing that you. were telling people about. Like.

what was what was the what were the. beginnings of the what did you start to. learn like can you give me examples? What were what were the moments where. you went oh wow, this is this is working. on me? Yeah, and I think if you do go back to. the beginning and I leave all my posts. up for that exact reason because I have. students now like clients and that I. coach and like go back to the beginning. and watch my own journey through content. because you'll see like it's a very. accurate representation of my journey in. my personal life. But I mean I started. out with ADHD that was so bad I would be.

depressed on days I wouldn't take the. stimulants and I was super dependent on. them. Obviously I we already talked. about being addicted to nicotine. Um couldn't focus, easily distracted, super impulsive, very emotional as well. Um just fight or flight all the time, always stressed and also health issues. like physical health issues as well. I. was in and out of doctor's offices when. I was younger a lot and doctors told me. I had all these different problems like. depression, anxiety, all these different. things. And not just mental health. problems with physical like hormonal. imbalances and things like that. So, I.

think, you know, that is what I I always. just kind of thought that's the way that. I was because that's something that, you. know, doctor put gives you a diagnosis. like this is you. This is your brain. This is who you are. Yeah. Good luck. Like that's going to be. navigate that now for the rest of your. life. And I thought that's just the way. that it was. Like oh, I was diagnosed. with ADHD. I'm going to struggle. focusing for the rest of my life and, you know, I'm going to need these. stimulants. And then I think learning. about the brain as I was studying. neuroscience, I started, you know, neuroplasticity, the ability for your.

brain to rewire and change and adapt. I. started to realize that oh, wait, maybe. the brain can change. And I learned. about epigenetics as well. I actually. TA'd a class in the PhD on. neurogenetics, which is epigenetics is the ability to. change the way your DNA is expressed, the genes that are expressed. >> The way your DNA is expressed. >> Right. Can you elaborate? >> Yeah, yeah. So, I have this visual in my. mind. I'm like if I had a little model, I could really show it. Did you bring. your DNA model, Eugene? [laughter]. Left it in the car. Ah, always. This. guy. Just when we need it. This guy.

[laughter]. Next time. Ugh. Oh, man. >> But basically [laughter] the way that. you could think about it, right, is like. basically you have this ball and then. you have like yarn like around the ball, right? And so it can either be the yarn. can be tightly wound around the ball or. loose. And basically like how tightly if. it's super tight and the the yarn is. your DNA. Okay. Go ahead. So, you know, there are little proteins that come in. and they read your DNA. And then when. they read your DNA, they build proteins.

based off of what it reads, right? If. it's super tightly wound, it can't come. in and read. And so no proteins are. going to be expressed or built off that. DNA that's tightly wound because it. can't be read. >> You're not open-minded. >> Right. So, or you can be you can be. openly wound, right? And then the. proteins can come in and read your DNA. and build proteins, right? And so, um that's just one example, you know, it. can be tight more tightly around we call. it like methylated, phosphorylated, you. know, there's all these different. things. Yeah, there's all these. different. If they said tightly wound, I.

would have had I would have a degree. >> [laughter]. >> Methylated, uh, no guys, you'll find me. in the streets. Methylated, phosphorylated. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. You don't have to agree. I don't have to. go home with this guy. [laughter]. All right, yeah, probably. But, um, but. that's, you know, so yeah. And so, that's kind of what I mean. So, basically, your environment, it. basically it can it can alter. the how tightly or loosely wound your. DNA is. And your environment, and this.

is like the way your environment can. actually impact which genes are. expressed. So, you're not changing your. DNA. You have the same DNA. But, it's. like which proteins can be made based. off of that. And right, and that is. going to depend on a number of factors. Your environment is one of them. Your. mindset. If I was to use like a this is. a crazy crazy analogy. I like that. That's what she does. Now you get it. Woah. Crazy analogy that I would use. >> out my content. >> I've never seen your content. [laughter]. I've I've literally never seen your.

content, but now I understand. >> like you would like it. Based on what. you're talking about, I feel like you. would like it. >> Sorry to cut you off there. There was. this, um, experiment, but not really an. experiment, but people were comparing a. generation of people in South Africa. that were raised by grandmothers versus. those that were raised by the parents. No, no, no, parents. Yeah. And going to. crèche or kindergarten. Yeah. And they. found that the ones that were raised by. grandmothers had more independence, more. empathy, and they were they they knew.

how to clean, to cook, to take care of. everyone, and they were more patient. And the ones that went to kindergarten. were more structured and. institutionalized, and they believe that. other things can be done by someone. else. But, those that were raised by. grandmothers found that they also settle. very early. They are very big on bonds. and having so it was a generational. thing for people that grew up in the. '80s and the '90s because kindergarten. was not a thing. So usually we'd get. shipped off to go live with our parents. before we started school. Yeah. This is. why I want to you you you have once. again inspired me to talk about my.

business that I want to launch. Yes. Yes. My idea is Mhm. we create old-age homes that are. kindergartens. Yeah. Cuz old people Mhm. They've done that. Wait, they have? So. they've done a research project. >> So if No, no, no. So they haven't done. this for like as a business. So. don't WORRY. YOU'RE SAFE. NO, BUT THERE. IS ACTUALLY research to show your idea. would work if I'm clear on your idea. >> This is why I need you in my life and my. You KNOW HOW MANY [laughter]. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. YOU KNOW HOW.

MANY YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I SAY. THINGS to people and then they'll be. like, "I don't know if that" And if I. had you around, you could be like, "There's research TO SHOW." BAM! Not. you, bam. Bam in general. But yeah, so. they took [clears throat] a bunch of old. people and they put them in this house. that was decorated like it was the '80s. Mhm. And like say music, like. decorations, all of it. And they. actually came out with biomarkers that. showed that they had sort of reversed. aging. >> Yeah. I always say like I always say. like old. young people Mhm. make old people. younger. Just like they're vibe. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Whenever I see like.

grandparents and grandchildren together. and then the inverse as well. I find. like grandparents help young kids grow. up with that like So I've always. thought, "Why do we put old people in. old age? Why do we like send them off to. die? I agree. >> we send them somewhere to live? And then. why we struggling with the kids? We. should have told Zoran this. He wants. child care in New York. Granny's. Yeah. Granny's. Yeah. Yeah. We could start. like a whole thing. Granny's.com and. then it's like a whole vibe. >> Yeah. And then you don't feel like your. grandparents are just stranded and they. get to see new life growing around them. And then the kids get to.

That's why rich people are doing this. >> percentage. You were here for this and. you're going to be handling our. scientific division and then you Eugene. will be my [laughter] spokesperson. Spokesperson. Yeah. How about R&D? No, no, no, no, I don't What are you What. are you researching? What are you. researching? >> know that. I thought I WAS [laughter]. R&D. DON'T GO ANYWHERE [music] CUZ WE GOT. MORE WHAT Now after this. >> [music].

>> So with your life, so you would you were. talking about all these things and and. and you were telling us how you started. finally change your life and how you. applied it. >> to bring that back. I'm [laughter]. always I'm always in. I'm locked in. Um. yeah, and so I think it kind of began. for me with and my journey of really. initially the first step was. understanding the brain. That was the. first step. Understanding the. neuroscience of reality. We talked a. little bit about the visual system, how. you hear, um and understanding and.

honestly like the study that kind of. changed the game for me whenever I was. an undergrad was learning about this. kitten experiment. It's a super classic. experiment like 1970. And they took. these newborn kittens and they raised. them in complete darkness except for a. few hours a day. where they put one group and they were. alone, each of them individually alone, in in a cylinder with only vertical. black and white stripe lines. And they took different kittens, a. different group, and they put them in a. cylinder with only horizontal black and. white stripe lines. They let their. visual cortex develop and then once they.

were fully developed or close to that, they put them in a normal everyday. environment with everyday objects. And. what they found was that the kittens. that were only raised to just ever see. horizontal lines, they didn't respond. normally to vertically shaped objects. Vertical like vertically oriented. objects like they would bump into table. legs No. >> because they couldn't see them. And so. their brain actually, you know, didn't put together that image because. it didn't wasn't raised to see that. And.

so I and you know, and vice versa with. the kittens that were raised to only see. vertical lines, they wouldn't jump up on. tabletops and perch because they. couldn't they didn't really like their. brains didn't you know respond normally. to horizontal objects. So I kind of just. was sitting there like damn like if. these kittens are only really able to. respond in a way that in an accurate or. appropriate way to things that they grew. up seeing what am I not seeing because. of the way I was raised, right? Like. what like the jobs like money, you know,

opportunities a relationship or. relationships especially like we grew up. seeing certain types of relationships. with our parents. Education like what am. I missing now that is probably right in. front of me but my brain's not. constructing that experience because it. isn't programmed for it. >> so obvious to you. Right and so that I. think was like the one of the first. realizations I had where I was like okay. like you know, what I'm wanting my. future to look like if it's different. than what my past has looked like then. I'm going to have to change my brain so. that it can construct that experience.

>> it shows sorry it shows this little gap. that has become a huge. crevice in society where science has. replaced art. Because academia replaced art. Because. kids used to it art used to be a way to. measure. who likes what. So now it became a thing of who can. count who can remember the best. Then. you get channeled that way but if you. learn how to draw and then building. blocks, how do you see the world. according to your eyes versus we're.

going to sit you guys in one room and. show you the world. And we're going to. show you to calculate and whoever. remembers to calculate the best the. quickest yes is the one that progresses. in life. I never thought of art like. that's beautiful actually. I genuinely. never thought of art like that. It is. the perfect petri dish to see how. everyone else sees the world. >> The coloring book and the building. blocks. Cuz you remember how every kid. used. you remember this like we'd go you'd go. I don't know if you did this. I used to. see other kids coloring books and I'd be. like what why did you. I'd be like why why would you use that. color? I I shocked at how we all had the.

same picture. Yeah. And everyone chose. completely and they were like, "This is. how I see the world." I was like, man. >> of us even see color the same way. >> Yeah, that one still. >> Or remember the building blocks? You'd. [laughter] be like, "What is that?". They'll be like, "It's a house." You'd. be like, "That doesn't look like Right. Well, that's why I always say like we. also didn't even come to this planet to. live in the same reality or experience. the life the same. Like we didn't come. HERE. >> GETTING HOT NOW. >> WE DIDN'T. >> [laughter]. >> WE DIDN'T COME HERE FOR THAT. Like I. actually had a dream about that recently. because I was sitting here thinking, you. know, I literally a few weeks ago I had. a dream about this or maybe a couple.

months ago where I was kind of like how. do I not care what other people think? Like how like how do you not care what. other people say you should or shouldn't. do? And then I literally had this dream. about the neuroscience of reality and. how no two people's brains are. constructing the same experience, right? Because your brain is what it what's. constructing your experience, not your. eyes. We are we've already discussed. that. So it's like, okay, no two people. are experiencing the same reality. Therefore, how can you take anybody. else's input and apply it to your own. life verbatim, word for word? It doesn't.

make sense It's like trying to play. Mario Kart with the rules of Call of. Duty. You shouldn't do that. Like So. you're playing Call of Duty. >> game. I'm just going to throw that out. there. [laughter] I'll also take shares. in this one. >> But it would also make you lose. >> R&D on this one. I'm just going to throw. in before Eugene jumps in. Eugene, you're the spokesperson for this game as. well. >> [laughter]. >> But Ryan, like you'd be really bad at. that game. So why are you trying to play. your game of life while taking somebody. else's rules when they're playing an. entirely different game? They don't live. in the same video game or experience the. same game that you do. This is.

wow. There's two thoughts that I I have when. you're saying this. The first one is. and I'm sorry to do this to you, Eugene, but I think of. >> worse. I think of why VAR is so. interesting in in football and soccer. So VAR, video assistant referee, is a. They had it in American sports for a. long time. I don't know why it took so. long to get to soccer, but they'll. they'll pause the game at a crucial. moment when there's like a big foul or. um a a goal that was scored or not.

scored. Point is people don't agree on. what happened. >> Mhm. And then they'll start replaying. what happened. from multiple different angles. And it's. sort of what you're saying. I've watched. myself, my friends, the commentators, and everyone who's observing this. starts to realize that their reality is. changing depending on the perspective. that they So they'll go, "That's. definitely a foul." And then they'll. show you another [clears throat] angle. and you'll be like, "Uh it still looks. like a foul." And they'll show you. another angle and you're like, "Did he. touch him?" And then the final angle.

you're like, "No, he didn't He didn't. touch him.". And what you're just saying is is sort. of that. It's like we we're living in. this world where we're all watching from. our own camera angle. And then we're going, "Why don't you. think it's a foul? Yeah. Why don't you. think it's a foul? How can you say it's a foul?" And it's. it's it's this And on the second thought. I was having just based around this is I. go, you know, you you're talking about a. world where we're all not designed to. have the same experience. >> Yeah. But doesn't doesn't that mean.

there's a huge swath of society that is. always pushed to the fringes unless they. are part of the monolithic experience? Does. As somebody who was diagnosed with ADHD. I've been diagnosed with ADHD, right? I I've often felt like. having ADHD there's nothing wrong with. it. But you are in the wrong society and. world right now because a lot of what. the world is is designed not for you. >> You [clears throat] really are. >> Mhm. You're playing the wrong video. game. >> No, you really are. Yeah. Because I I. I I spoke to I spoke to one one.

therapist who was talking about how. and these are like hypotheses, but they. said people with ADHD were probably. really beneficial to a tribe and a. society when you would go out like. hunting together. >> Mhm. Because some people really just. need to focus on picking the berries and. some people need to be like, "What's. that? What's that? Do you guys hear. that? What's that? Can you guys hear. that? But you can't all be going what's. that, what's that because then no one's. going to focus on the berries and you. can't all be focused on the berries. because then no one's going like, "Yo. guys, did you hear that? What was that?

What was that?" Pattern recognition. >> So willing to go explore and be curious. >> Exactly. And so you need all of these. different minds doing and thinking. different things so that we can all. function together. But to sort of what. you're saying with arts like like the. and what you're saying now, aren't we. creating a world where we're compressing. everyone into one? We're going like you. all have to do this, all have to go to. school at this time, all have to learn. these subjects, all have to sit in an. office, all have all all all. >> We're trying to. And that creates a lot. of resistance. >> Yes.

Yes, I've I've had this conversation. with teachers at my daughter's school. since she started high school. And all of it was if if she really. applied herself to the math and the. science. And I used to say to them, "Just relax. School fees will be paid. She will pass. You won't [laughter] have. to deal with her for long.". >> And then the conversation. And then the conversation I'd have with. her every time was, "I don't want great. grades. I want you to have the best time. possible during this 5 years of high. school, but just pass so I don't have to. pay for it again." So that was the.

conversation for the longest time. And. funny enough, I saw a TikTok of someone. just the other day who posted all of. their high school achievements, Yeah, yeah. >> their badges, their certificates, and. they go, "In the real world, these count. for nothing. It's like you have Monopoly. money in the real world. So you've. missed out on an entire 5 years of. experiencing your growth and your. fundamentals or how you would have been. forming as a as a young adult trying to. achieve and impress people you'll never. see again.". >> Well, it's funny you say that. I think. people would are and would be shocked at.

how many of the biggest, most successful. icons that they look up to never. finished school. Do you know what I mean? So they'll be. like, "Oh yeah, Mark Zuckerberg, you. know how big he is?" And you're like, "He didn't finish." They're And "What do. you mean? He went to Yeah, he went to. the university, and then he didn't. finish. He left to do this thing that we. call Facebook. Mhm. What What do you. mean? Countless names where they go They They. went to the university, and then they. dropped out, and they started a. business, and they and they left. No, but to your point. >> absolutely. But But we think that the.

one thing leads to the other. So, we're living in this world where one. thing leads to another. You're living in. this world where one thing leads to. another. What was the first breakthrough? I'd. love to know even like on the ADHD side, cuz what you're saying to me sounds like. a magic trick. Your brain can't focus. You You You You. know, you're You're stuck in loops. >> this place where I literally am writing. a book right now, and I can go and sit. for 7 hours and focus without anything. at all. >> Let's walk through that. How do you get. there? How How on earth did you start What was.

the What was the first step? So, like. you said, it's been a journey over time. Like, that's the way that. neuroplasticity works. It's repetition. over time. And so, the beautiful thing. about the brain is that it it can. change, and it does change. And so, you. know, I think a lot of people now, it's. not that they can't focus, it's that. they have super well-practiced. distraction. Oof. And you get. >> Damn. You get really good You can't. [laughter] just move on from. high-definition LED television set. >> You can't just move on from that.

Say Say that again, please. Mic-drop. moment. >> So, a lot of people think that they. can't focus or they're bad at focus. But. really what it is is that they have. super well-practiced distraction. Remember I told [clears throat] you. yesterday? I said, if I didn't go fetch. those sneakers at that time, it would. have ruined my day. Yes, but now Okay, now I know we're going to go on a. tangent here, but I want you to help. Eugene on this. Only now we're going on. a tangent? Yeah, but I'm I'm saying I'm. acknowledging the tangent for this. specific moment, cuz this is about you. now, only as Eugene. >> [laughter].

>> How How would you have helped Eugene. with this? So, Eugene, help Tell the. story. >> And then Um No, no, no. I want you Let's. Let's Here's an actual brain. >> Yeah. Walk us through the story. What. happened? So, I ordered these sneakers. online, and then they arrived, but I. didn't think I didn't I I didn't count. for how far they were. In my head I was. like it's 6 and 1/2 km, I can probably. make it, but we had this as well to do. So, I spent an hour thinking if I go. there. then I would save myself all the grief. of thinking about going there while I'm. doing this. But so basically but also.

you're leaving out the the most. important thing you told me which was. >> Yeah, yeah, details Eugene. You tell me. [laughter] Okay. Cuz how much time did. we have to get. >> you now. I'm going to tell YOU THE. STORY. I'M GOING TO TELL you the story. This is what happened to Eugene. Are you. here to convict me. >> [laughter]. >> or to save me? I'm like for all I know. it's 10 minutes before you got to be. here and you're talking about traveling. all the way to Brooklyn. So, let me. explain. So, let me explain. Let me. explain what happened here. It was. Brooklyn. So, let me We were talking. about [laughter] it before we started. THAT'S HOW MUCH. SO, I'LL EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED CUZ MY. friend told it to me. So, what happened. was Eugene ordered sneakers.

The only location that would have the. sneakers was in Brooklyn. Eugene was in. Manhattan. Eugene looked up where the store is. He. was like, "Oh, I got to get this. It's. near the Barclay's Center.". Google Maps told him how long it could. take to get there. Eugene was like, "I. think I can do this." Now, the time was. going to be like super tight, but he's. like, "I can do it. I'll get there and. then I'll spend like 26 minutes getting. there and then I'll spend 2 minutes. buying the shoes cuz how long does it. take to buy shoes? Yeah, you just got to pick them up and.

then I got got to get back in the car. and then I come back to Manhattan and. then I've I've got the thing. Now, I was like, "But Eugene, wouldn't. isn't that going to be stressful?" And. Eugene said, "No. If I didn't go pick up the shoes. I would have been more stressed about. the shoes the whole day. So, when we. were recording an episode of the. podcast, I'd be like. I can't I can't even think about. anything Trevor cuz all I'm thinking. about is those shoes. And while I'm. talking to the guest I'd be like shoe. shoe shoe shoe shoes. What time did the. shoe place close? Shoe shoe shoes.". No, then he So, he went and he got the.

shoes first, right? No, and he he made. it. But it was a stress So, now I would like. you to explain from I swapped one stress. for another. From from a brain. perspective. >> [laughter]. >> NO RELIEF WHATSOEVER. [laughter]. I SWAPPED ONE. I'm like. I was like, GO TO WAR OR STAY MARRIED. >> [laughter]. >> WAR. SO so how. help us understand. >> one stress for another because you sat. there overthinking for a period of time.

and then you were you had less time to. go and actually do it. And when you were. you stressed on your journey. >> And it was just getting to the podcast. now. >> my journey going there. It was just. coming back. But in my head I was like, that stress compared to the stress of. the whole entire day. Of not having the. shoes. >> Because when would you have been able to. get them if you didn't go right before? >> You see? Any other day. No, any other. day. Any other day. Any other day's the answer. And by the. way, I'm not judging you because. I too have You know I didn't even once. even never you never did. >> Well, what were you guys doing before.

this because you were late today? So. this this was this was all on me. He was. eating ice cream. This is not him. This is not HIM AT ALL. [laughter] THIS. is not him at all. You're a therapist. now. This is not him at all. WELL, WHAT MY POINT is though like I'm. I'm just going to tell you. >> [laughter]. >> I have. I'm just going to tell you. Okay. I'm. just going to tell you. >> it was technical difficulties. LET ME. LET ME. >> [laughter]. >> SO LET ME TELL YOU. NO, but I wouldn't. throw you under the bus. I would never do THAT TO YOU.

WHY ARE YOU THIS PERSON? GO AHEAD. SO. >> [laughter]. >> There's a there's a technical There's a. part of the podcast that I specifically. like to be a part of like it comes to. like, you know, when we're working with. the transcriptions of the podcast, what's happening with like the the. titles on YouTube. Like I I like to be. involved. Yeah, many of the geeky parts, right? So what I'll often do is I sit. there with my laptop or my iPad and I go. through the thing and I do it and I do. it and I do it da da da da da da. Long. story short, the program that I use.

didn't want to work for the episode that. we were doing because we had multiple. Africans on the same episode. Now, I'm. not blaming. the racism of technology in this. I'm. just explaining to you what happened. But, it could not, for the life of it, discern between the Africans. Sometimes. it couldn't even say what language they. were speaking. They were speaking. English, by the way. Now, in In the. [laughter] program's defense, in the. program's defense, one of our friends. says like work instead of work, and he. says like swordfish. That's Joe.

>> But, that's Joe. In his head, he sounds. like Hugh Grant. You'll understand this. when you listen [laughter] to the. episode. All of this will make sense. All of this will I'm also not blaming. Joe for for how Joe is. But, because we. needed that, and the whole process. relies on me doing that part, then I was. like like we needed we needed we needed. Then I'm like like I'm like a hacker. Like, "Give me 10. I got to get in. 10. minutes. Get in. Get in. Get in. Get in. Get in. Get in. Get in. I got to GET. GIVE ME 5 MORE MINUTES. I got And and so. and so that's the thing. But, I want you. to first fix the shoes thing. Well, it's. the same thing though, right? So, you.

I have a thing. >> How did you fix it? I don't really like. >> Well, let's hear what it is first. Yeah. So, my thing is I don't like to rush. I. don't like to rush because when you're. when you put when you rush, you're in. fight or flight, and then that's. cortisol, and that actually makes you. dumber. So, if you're sitting there. right before this episode, and you're. trying to figure it all out, and all of. a sudden you're stressed about figuring. it out, that actually makes you less. able to figure it out because you're. turning down activity in your prefrontal. cortex and raising activity in your. amygdala. Now, you're in fight or. flight, scanning for threats, and you're.

not really in a position mentally to. figure it out. That's why when you're in. a rush, you spill your drink, or you. forget your keys. You drop things, right? You're not working at optimal. performance. >> Can I throw something Can I throw. something at you that might is based on. what you told me about the kittens, though? Only because you told me the kitten. story. What if I grew up in a life that. was so stressed and so high-paced that. that's actually when I'm the most. relaxed? Because I'm I've lived in. horizontal lines for so long. >> I'm like the up What if I'm the. opposite? Like I can I become smarter. I.

can move better. I can Like I don't. spill my drink. I don't bump into. anything. I don't miss I don't miss a. plane. I don't Like you've seen me in an. airport. You thrive in that. Let me tell. you something. >> us thrive like crazy. >> is going down. and you need to rush, it's you. You're. the guy. You call this guy here. Nothing. will get forgotten. Nothing will Do you. know when I forgotten things? Is when I had copious amounts of time. And I mean. copious amounts of time. I was going to.

a friend's wedding recently. And when I tell you I had time, packed the suitcase. 2 days before. I was like, "You know. what? You Let's not rush.". >> 2 days before. >> Imagine. You know me, my friend. >> like suicide. >> Exactly. >> you're going to not come back ever. >> "You know what? I'm going to pack this I. want to be so cuz I didn't want to rush. I'm going to pack the suitcase. I'm. going to prepare everything. Put the. shoes in. Put the the tuxedo, the thing. You name it. I was like, I. I got this. I'm going to be so because I.

don't want anything to go wrong. I was. like, "You know what? Let. >> Okay. Not that things go wrong. I was. like, "I don't want anything to go. wrong.". >> Yeah. Let me try this thing. >> So, let me do this thing. >> But you're focused on things going wrong. when you're thinking about how you don't. want things to go wrong. This is why. you're around. This is great, by. [laughter] the way. So, I was like, "You. know what? You know what? You manifested. calamity. So, I was like, "Let me Let me. just do this." Packed everything. Got the wedding, you know, on You name. it. The night before I'm hanging up all my. clothes,

putting everything up. I had jackets. I had shirts. I had no. bottoms. You didn't pack any bottoms. So, you you know what? >> You got all the way there and you didn't. pack any bottoms. >> So, because the pants went off for. tailoring separately, the pants went off for tailoring, they came in a different bag and I put. the bags and I was so comfortable and. calm when I was doing the thing. But when I normally pack,

I fly in. and I sing a song and I'm like flying. through it. I'm like the shoes get your socks and. then your socks get your pants and then. your pants get your underwear and your. underwear get your shirt and then your. shirt get your jacket and your jacket. get your Yeah, every time. >> [laughter]. >> I've never left anything behind. I've. never been a person who's like, "Oh, I. didn't bring my toothbrush." No. I'll nail it. So, I I I mean this. honestly. So, could I have So, could I. have So, could I have like the opposite. brain of Yes, you could, but also what. you're describing is completely. different. What you're describing is why. athletes are way better at shooting free.

throws when they're not thinking about. it versus whenever they're thinking. about it and they have time then they. miss, right? Because you have it saved. in muscle memory and you're trying to. introduce conscious thought into. something that you shouldn't. >> I'm a packing athlete. You heard it here. first. [laughter] There's this famous. Don't come here with no casual packing. Exactly. >> athlete. did that. You did that. You. came through with some [laughter] casual. packing and that's what you did. You know, I'm so grateful for your. presence here for so many reasons. Before you go on this, I want you to now. go with Eugene's one Cuz I've.

experienced By the way, no We diagnosed. Trevor and we diagnosed. >> Eugene's one. So, I want you to talk us. through cuz I think a lot of people will. relate to this. Help us understand. Eugene's thing and how would you have. coached him? Did we finish Eugene's. situation? >> Sorry. No, because yes, because he had. the shoes he was fine, but then as he. said he introduced he swapped one stress. for another. So, What was the other. stress? So, the one. >> stress would be I'd be sitting here. and then when the guest is talking I'd. be thinking, you know, this 30 MINUTES. >> [laughter]. >> EXACTLY HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET TO. BROOKLYN. But what was the stress that. you swapped it for? What ended up being.

the stress? Oh, the stress was. I wasn't going to make it on time. The. driver is driving too slow. Why is the. school bus in front of us? Why is there. traffic? Why is there a school bus. How long did you wait to make that. decision to send it? Almost an hour. Oh. So, I mean. >> [laughter]. >> I think, you know, I I was saying this. before we started recording that I don't. negotiate with myself. And so, if. >> You don't? What does that mean? >> I don't Like, for example, you're. sitting there going back and forth,

like, do I want to go get a. I I just make a decision. I don't like. to waste time. >> what But why? What is the What is the. thinking behind this? I think it it's exactly what happened to. Eugene, right? So, he wasted an hour. just going back and forth, and then that. he had double the amount of stress. because not only was he overthinking a. situation, then he was also stressed. about having less time to do it. So, >> [snorts]. >> again, it's kind of similar to where I. was thinking where I have this thought. process of what who do Like, when I. visualize my best favorite self, who.

what who are they? What are their habits. like? What is their mindset like? What. are their beliefs like? In this. situation, it's like, okay, when I. visualize myself tomorrow or myself. later today, like, or my best favorite. self, what what what does she do? Like, how does she act? She doesn't sit here. going back and forth, should I go get. it, should I not? It's my podcast. If I. want to go get shoes, I'm going to go. get shoes. And if I'm going to be 10-15. minutes late, I'm going to be 10-15. minutes late. And I'm not really going. to I'm not really going to stress about. it. And that's why I said, like, I don't.

like to rush. Like, if I'm going to be. That doesn't mean that I give myself. ample time all the time. I don't always. have ample time. And sometimes I am 5. minutes late. I'm kind of chronically 5. minutes late to everything. I wasn't. today, but I am. >> [laughter]. >> But that's cuz I wasn't alone, right? So, uh. >> [laughter]. >> He's on time. And so And so, yeah, I. think when I think about that If I were. in your shoes and I'm like, this is. something that I want. >> by the way. >> From the beginning, you had ample time. If you didn't waste an hour thinking, you could have gone there and back and.

not been stressed at all. If it's. something that you want to do that's. going to make you happier, and that joy. joy is a the best performance-enhancing. drug ever. So, if I'm going to go get. these shoes and make myself I'm wearing. my boots. You guys both said you like my. boots. >> We both said. >> we like your boots. They are dope boots. And and when you are feeling like your. best self, then you actually perform. better, right? Joy enhances your. performance. >> knew, M, that those shoes would do that. for me. >> Exactly. >> two back-to-backs. You came You came in. with swag, I won't lie. >> I knew. >> You You just had like a vibe about you. What you just said.

You You see now coming back to. So, if you just hear it on the woo-woo. side of things, people will go like, "Visualize your best self. Think about. who you want to be." And then I've seen. a lot of people, and I've probably been. one of them at some point, who goes, "Oh, come on. You just visualize your. best self, and if you could, then you. would.". And then. >> You're teaching your brain how to act in. situations in life. That's why identity. shifting is so powerful. >> So, I read I read a paper that was. written about athletes the other day. And this was an interesting I'm not even. sure that it was a study per se, but it.

was a really interesting um. article that I read. And it talked about. the difference between. like elite athletes and just athletes. who are good by the fact that they are. athletes, right? And it said the difference between the. athletes wasn't necessarily the fact. that one group was. nervous, and the other group wasn't. nervous in a high-stress situation. The difference was. the one group. who are the elite athletes were able to.

visualize themselves overcoming the. obstacle that they knew was incoming. And the other group could only focus on. the obstacle itself. >> Yes. And so, you watch. you know, LeBron James, you watch a, you. know, an Erling Haaland, you watch a, you know, whoever it is, you know, Saquon Barkley, you Eugene Fine, but. like you watch. [snorts and clears throat] any of these. these people, you know, whoever it is, and you go, "Wait.

How How are they doing that in those. moments?" And it seems like what you're. just saying, they are able to visualize. themselves. doing the thing that they haven't done. yet. And then that what would say magically. or scientifically. means that they're more able to realize. it. Help me understand that part. >> the pre-motor area of the brain. Okay. >> So, your problem yesterday was that you. were focused on the problem and not how. the best version of you moves through. situations. And. >> Mhm. So, there's I actually just filmed.

my own podcast episode on this and it's. like three of my favorite different. types of visualizations. >> What's the podcast called by the way? People should check it out. Planet M. I. love it. Welcome to my world. And so, and so there the one type of. visualization I talked about though was. sort of like a resilience training. visualization. And this is exactly what. we're talking about. So, and this is. what athletes use sign NASA like. astronauts at NASA use this and it's. basically the process of visualizing. yourself on the path toward achieving or.

doing whatever it is. But mu- kind of facing challenges as the. best version of you. And so, you start. out in this visualization sort of just. identifying who that is. And then you. can bring up a cha- like for example, you could do this. Bring up the. challenge from yesterday. Start your. visualization with your favorite version. of you, the best version of you. And. then bring up the situation that. happened yesterday. And then you watch. as that version of you moves through. that situation. And you can do this for. so many different things. You can use.

this as confidence training. If there. are things that if like as a creator for. a while like certain comments would get. to me. Visualizing my best self reading. those comments and how she would react. to them trained my brain to react in a. way that is aligned with who I'm wanting. to become. >> your own role model essentially. >> It's because I I have this theory that. in a meditative state when you are doing. a mantra, you're basically doing a. simulation of something that will happen. in the future. So, when you face that. situation like the athletes in high. stressful They've already done this.

before. >> faced it. You know, like a challenge is. only difficult when it like it not only. difficult, but it's a lot harder the. first time you do it. And then the. second time, third time, fourth time you. face it, it's not even a challenge. anymore. It's just like, oh yeah, this. is just one of those obstacles you just. got to go through. And if that's what. happens when you visualize your best. self going through it. And also you're. sort of preparing yourself for it and. how you want to act. If you don't do. that, then you are just putting yourself. in a position to allow your default mode. or your subconscious to react to a. situation. But when you take the time to.

visualize and kind of practice the way. that you would would want to react, then. you're going to react in that in real. life in a way that you actually feel. proud of rather than. >> in simulator jets, right? You don't have. to crash the real plane. In a relaxed state, you're flying using. all the gizmos, all the buttons, all You. simulated the crash. You simulated the. crash. You simulated that nose dive. You. simulated that stall. You simulated. Right. So, do it practice. >> So, what is that Help me understand what. what that's actually doing in your brain. now? Like, is it Is it.

Cuz you spoke earlier about like tunnel. vision for instance. So, help me. understand what some of these things are. causing in us as people that we don't. realize our brains are doing to us. >> Please splice that with the concept of. time as well. Well, it comes with it in there. >> [laughter]. >> All right. We won't interrupt you for a. long time now. >> Um so, I mean there are there are many. different points here. So, when we are. kind of practicing what what we're doing. really is just practicing, right? We're. practicing facing challenges. We're just. like an athlete. We're practicing, you.

know, what happens if somebody runs up. on us and we have the ball. What are we. going to do? We're just practicing that. And so, the same way that you want to. practice free throws, you want to. practice facing challenges. And so, you're just You're just activating those. pathways in your brain. Like, if I'm. visualizing my best self reading those. comments, I'm just practicing and. training my brain to react in a way that. I would want to react. So, you're just. activating those pathways. Like, the way that visualization works is a. lot of the time, especially when it's. highly vivid and you're using imagery.

and context, your environment, the. emotional state, your brain doesn't. necessarily differentiate between what. you're seeing, like what through our. eyes, and what we're imagining in our. head. Um and if you think about, like. what I talked about, how your brain. constructs everything you see, it's no. different because your eyes don't see it. anyway. Your brain's constructing. everything you see. So, what's the. difference between your eyes being. closed or open? It's the same. You're. seeing it in your head. And it's happen. being constructed in by your brain. either way.

What's [clears throat] happening, for. example, especially with kind of motor. activities, like in athletes, they're. really training the pre-motor area of. the brain. And the motor area is what. sends the signals, right? So, the motor. area is what tells my hand to pick up. this cup and take a drink. The pre-motor. area is what plans the movement. And so, what you're doing when you visualize. this is you are training your brain to. plan the reaction, plan the movement. better. So, that way when you actually. are facing the situation in real life,

your brain already knows the plan. But what happens when you are in it in. real life and you haven't done this, and. you haven't ever thought about it, then. you're there's no plan and your brain is. going to go based off of an old version. of you, a past version of you, especially if it's a stressful situation. and you're in fight or flight, then. you're kind of right. And what's going. to happen is it's really just your. subconscious sort of programming from. the past that's doing the reacting, that's doing the responding. It's not. It's not a conscious response or a plan.

It is just sort of you reacting in real. time based on old programming that you. may or may not want to be, you know, directing your behaviors. And so, I mean, I. the perception of time thing here, I. don't know how necessarily how that's. going to fit into the story. Um but I mean, actually I could. I. could. So, I mean, if the conscious. awareness and having this plan does. dilate time. And so, when you are. present, you have more time to respond. Versus And also, right, if you've.

practiced the res- If you've practiced. the situation, if you've been here. before, whether it's in real life or in. your imagination, then you're not going. to have the same stress response that. you would if you've practiced it and. you've been here before, right? Then. you're you're going to feel more. present, more calm. When you're feeling. present and or and or calm, then time. dilates, you have more time to respond, rather than being like, "Oh my god, I. have, you know, just reacting, then. you're you're going to be able to sit. back and respond in a way that feels.

Right, that feels more conscious. And. so, and then to bring in sort of the. tunnel vision piece that you asked. about, if you are in your situation where the. shoe situation and you are stressed and. you're limited on time and you're like, "I don't know what to do." And you're in. this. fight fr- flight freeze, my brain's not. really thinking super straight, clearly, what you get is tunnel vision, um. because stress If you think about the. saying deer in headlights, they're in. fight or flight. Deer in headlights, they're frozen. They're They have.

extreme tunnel vision. Uh they can't. They're They're They're not looking. around at the possibilities of what's. going on. They are. They're [laughter] They're They can only. see the problem that's right in front of. them, right? That's what happens when. you're stressed, when your nervous. system goes into fight or flight. You. are that deer in headlights. You can. only see the problem. You're not putting. your brain in a position to scan for all. the different You're not thinking. logically and solution-based and open to. different possibilities or other ways of. thinking. That's not That's not the.

state that your nervous system is in. Your nervous system is in a state of. This is the This situation at hand. This. is the problem. We need to think about. this problem. This problem alone. And we. don't know what to do, but your brain's. not. Your brain's not in the position to even. think about other other avenues or what. to do, other paths. It's It's not even. in the position. And so, that's when. you're in the situation you're in where. you sit there for an hour debating and. negotiating with yourself and you're not. ever coming to a real solution. It's cuz. and but and maybe the way that you want. to go about this next time is to stop.

for 5 minutes and take some deep. breaths, calm your nervous system, and. then you would have been able to make a. really educated decision based on your. position. You know, when you think of. the deer in the headlights thing, just when Yeah, the way you break it. down, I go. >> [snorts]. >> the deer is never in that position when. it's being chased by a predator. Never. Do you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. There's no deer that's like, "Oh, wolf." No, it runs. It immediately to. your point, because it's had so much. time to learn from the time it was like. a calf and then all the way through it's.

it's sort of simulated and it's learned. and it's practiced and it's learned and. it's practiced and it's learned and it's. practiced. >> But the car is a new thing in its world. for the most part. So it's just like, "Wait, what is It's a new idea. that it has never simulated." That's. When you put it that way, It's amazing. I would love for you No, you know, I I. remember one of your I remember one of. your one of your videos that that that. really really touched me was when you. were talking about how. the brain, the mind, and these learnings. apply to love and how we process.

relationships. And. I remember this you know, at the time I. was I was I was reading a lot about. attachment theory. Um. I was listening to people's stories. Even in therapy, I was talking about. like, "How do I process what a. relationship could or could not be based. on the relationships I've seen or have. not seen? What are the triggers that I think of. that another person wouldn't? And what. are the things I'm missing that another. person wouldn't?". >> Mhm. And then you you shared like a. beautiful story.

of your journey with love talking about. this, seeing what we couldn't see. before, or learning to not see what we didn't. need to see before. What What me through this and and and me. understand how you got to the beautiful. place that you're in now. Yeah, if I'm understanding your I'm not. I don't if I'm understanding your. question. >> cuz you had this video and I mean this. was like years ago I think but you you. were talking about. the brain and people. saying for instance, oh I'm lonely.

There's no one out there. You never meet. anyone. You don't see anyone and no one. sees me and blah blah and and then you. shared your own personal story. I. remember at the time talking about how. you changed something and I'm forgetting. the exact details but you you worked on. changing something about how you were. perceiving your world. and it. opened up opportunities for love to come. into your life but you were like the. world didn't change. It's just how you. were perceiving and presenting in the.

world. It can you explain that? Yes, I. am I understand now. So it's not. necessarily about relationships alone. This is just about life in general and. it all goes back to the kittens, right? The kitten couldn't see the table leg or. respond to a table leg normally cuz it. had only ever seen horizontal lines. Now, I grew up not necessarily seeing a. relationship like I what a healthy you. know, romantic relationship looked like. and I. I I didn't like.

>> [clears throat]. >> so my brain didn't know how to filter. for that, right? My brain didn't know. and still is learning how to you know, filter for that and feel safe in that as. well, right? Because you just got done. saying that you feel safe what you. described really is like you does my. brain have this opposite what you're. describing is your brain feels safe in. those chaotic environments. >> Right. And so your brain like and so I. you I had to teach my brain, right? Like. what to even look for like what does. that look like? Like what does a healthy.

loving relationship look like and and. can and also feel safe in that and that. started with myself. Like having that. relationship with myself. >> Oh, in what way? >> um sort of treating myself like I was my. dream. partner. partner. Like, I would walk. around calling myself babe. And like, [laughter]. oh, like oh, no prob- like literally, I. remember sitting down and maybe the. video you're talking about is I remember. sitting down to record a video and I was. like, oh, like you need some better. lighting, honey. And like and [laughter].

I and I remember think getting up and. I'm like, wow, like I really talk to. myself like how I would want my dream. partner to talk to myself. And it really. just boils down to treating myself how I. would want to be treated, right? And so. and and having that like dream. relationship, like do I want to be taken. out on dates? Am I taking myself out on. dates? Do I feel safe in that? Or am I. going to reject that because my nervous. system doesn't feel safe in that because. it doesn't ever experience that. Your. nervous system feels safest with. whatever it's experiencing, whether it's.

what you want or not. >> Simulation. Whether it's what you want. or not, right? So, you you can sit. around all day asking for certain. things, but if you've never experienced. them, then your brain is not going to. experience those things as feeling safe. It's going to feel unpredictable and. unpredictability feels unsafe to the. brain. So, you got to make what you want. predictable. Mhm. Right? By showing it. more of that or normalizing what you. want. And there's so many different ways. to do that. Like, visualization, but. also, for example, when I was wanting to. buy a house, like, let me go drive.

through this one neighborhood in the. mountains in Arizona with all these. beautiful homes to show my brain this, to normalize it, right? So, there's so. many different ways. And then the other. piece that you were kind of getting at. as well was yeah, the the I used to say. this all the time. Oh, dating sucks in. my city. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody says. that. And I've lived in many different. cities. We went we were I was talking. for probably 30 minutes before you guys. got here about all the different places. I've lived. And I would say it. everywhere I lived. Oh, whether it was. in the small town where I did the PhD or.

whether it was the big city when I lived. in Miami, you know, no matter where it. was. Oh, dating sucks in my city or. whatever. And I hear people say that all. the time. And. your that's sort of a belief, right? It. is an instruction to your brain. Your. brain filters your reality, or remember, it constructs everything that you see. based on your beliefs. >> Yeah. Based on what you know, or think. to be true. And so, if you. the person, your dream person, could be. right in front of you, but you won't see.

them because you don't believe that. dating is good in your city. You think. it sucks in your city. And so, this guy. >> up your mind. >> This guy Right. And so, this guy could. come right up to you and offer to buy. you a coffee at the coffee shop. >> Says who? You've always got a chance with me, you. cheeky. >> [laughter]. >> And and but it but it also like taking. the stress thing into account as well, right? Like especially add stress on top. of that. If you're if you're in fight or. flight, or stressed, and you walk around. throughout your day stressed out, then. again, your brain's not going to be. filtering for the dream partner, or the.

job. And I've had people Someone came to. one of my master classes once, and he. said he had been looking for a job for 2. years. And within 2 weeks after the. class, he got his dream job. And nothing. changed in his world. Like nothing. changed in the physical world. What. changed was in him, his beliefs. >> It's not magic. >> No. >> It is. It is magic. >> Yeah, but I mean, it's not I do believe. in magic. >> Yeah, I do believe in magic. >> this this [laughter] is what I mean by. it's it's not magic. >> is. it's not it's not something that's. inexplicable is what I mean.

>> Yes. It is 100%. >> to pause though and say that there are. things that are unexplainable. Yeah. And. I believe in that as well. So, I mean, that's a whole other conversation, and I. do believe believe in things that are. unexplainable. Like science is a lens. through which you can look at life. Right. It's not the only lens through. which you should look at life. And if. you're only looking at life through one. or two lenses, then you're missing out. on a a ton. So, I but I do appreciate. when you can explain these sorts of. things with neuroscience, because yeah, it makes it feel like real and super. understandable and also actionable,

right? Because it goes from life feeling. random to all of a sudden, oh wait, now. I can have control over this situation. I'm not seeing the relationship that I. want. I'm not getting the job that I. want. Oh, maybe my maybe it's there. It. is there. Like it's there. The money, the job opportunities. It's. The world is so abundant with so many. different things, but you have to. believe that and you have to move. through life with that belief and. knowing. Otherwise, you're going to turn. down opportunities or you might just not. even see them. You won't even apply for.

the job because you won't think that. you'll get it, right? It's just There's. so many different ways that your brain. will hold you back. What you saying is. so key because I was actually telling. him and said I want to show him my diary. from about 6 years ago. This was the. hardest time of my life. And I started. reading these books and I got into it. I. started listening to these podcasts. And. what I started making a choice of was. simulation or assimilating. So, if I had. assimilated, I would just carried on. with people around me and what they do. In that case, it would have been comedy.

But in my simulation, in my mind, in my. meditation, I knew what I wanted to do. and I knew where I wanted to do it. So, I started to write it down. But the next. step from writing it down was to. visualize, have visual references of it. So, I started having screen savers of. the city that I wanted to do this thing. at on my phone. Then the next step was, I would say, I want to be paid in this. currency. Then I would start saying that. over and over again. And remember, I. could assimilate or I could be in this. simulation. And slowly the simulation.

started feeling normal and normal and. normal. Then I realized, if I want to. hear this being said, I must say it to. myself. Then I would take everything. that I wrote down and I would say it in. the mirror. Then I was like, yeah, I can. hear it. The vibration thing that you. said makes sense. I could hear it. I. could hear I could hear it. The more I. said it, when I sleep, I'll dream about. it and it would start It took 5 years. The 5 years, the opportunity happened in. exact the same place, in exactly the. same way, in exactly the same currency. that I'd written down. And I'd written. down dates on the on the diary, and I. think I've told you about this before.

>> you did. And I even So, uh in the same. year, I'd done a a reading with a medium. who said exactly the same things that. I'd written down as my thoughts and as. my visualization. And when I asked her, she said, "Remember that as a medium, I'm not saying anything that's not in. your reality. I'm just basically. reminding you and giving you cues and. clues of what to follow and what path, but it seems like if you've written it. down already, you remember it quite. well." And what you're saying makes. sense because when you try to explain to. someone, and that's what I find with. people who are gifted, who are talented,

naturally talented at something, trying. to explain their success, I often think. you're cheating someone who's facing the. same conundrum of the real experience. Work hard, do this, do that. No, it. sometimes is thinking about the thing. that you want to do, and actually. thinking and thinking and thinking and. visualizing it, and those small. neurological pathways start becoming. little footpaths, and then they become. little two lanes, then all of sudden. they become freeways, and you become a. master at weaving your wand and creating.

your reality. And that's what I think is. missing. Yeah, and I think And don't get. me wrong, I'm all for working hard. I. wouldn't be where I am if I didn't work. hard. But I think you when you have the. mindset piece and then the and you wire. your brain to align with what you're. working hard for, that's when you become. unstoppable, and that's when it's. inevitable, and it's going to happen no. matter what, right? But if you're. working so hard and your brain isn't. wired in alignment with what you're. working hard for, then you're just. you're you're going to just beating a. brick wall. You It's when when you. That's when you start to face all this.

resistance, and I mean, there's so much. research that shows, you know, like. mindset and belief in yourself is a. bigger predictor of success than talent. or intelligence. Like But yeah, and it's. it's it's so important. Like I and I've. been asked many times, like when what. was the thing that you think really. shifted your life and when did you start. to really like feel different and do. different be different and it was when I. had this crazy I mean I had a crazy DMT. experience but I it really opened me up. to the spiritual world but also like to.

start believing in myself and when I. started believing in myself everything. changed. Like I I became unstoppable and. it didn't matter what happened right? Because the tests are going to come the. trials the tribulations the challenges. the things are going to happen but when. you have that belief in yourself it's. like you keep going and you keep and. belief in yourself improves your. performance. >> Yeah. It it it's a biological. advantage to believe in yourself. >> my DMT experience was ayahuasca what was. yours? DMT. Yeah? So you took it.

orally? How did you do it? Uh out of a. crack pipe. Well. It it found me. I didn't EXPECT. [laughter] THAT. TWICE IN THE HISTORY of this podcast way. more crack than I thought would be in on. this podcast. I'm not going to lie. >> [laughter]. >> If you ask me about my journal from. years ago I can safely say I did not. write that. You know judging of our. races People would just like Somebody. would expect THAT AYAHUASCA FROM YOU. >> [laughter]. >> AND CRACK FROM CRACK PIPE FROM TREVOR. AND CRACK PIPE FROM YOU.

IT FOUND ME. YOU GOT ME. YOU GOT ME. [laughter] IT FOUND ME. >> THREW meth my way. I've got only I can. only have one. >> Okay okay I'll take it. I'll have one. You take the crack pipe and you take. ayahuasca. So okay perfect. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah I mean it now it definitely found. me. I didn't go seeking it but it. changed my life and it really it changed. my meditative my meditation practice. forever. Like I to this day I have this. lightning bolt that strikes through me. and my whole body's vibrating and I'm. divinely guided and protected and. charged up and electrocuted by the. divine. So I mean it changed my life but.

also going into the PhD this happened. right before I like went into the PhD. and I just went and with this like such. a. such a deep trust and surrender to the. flow of life and I had trust and. surrender written on sticky notes like. all over my. apartment when I first got there and. >> What does that do for you by the way? To. surrender? >> No, no, when you when you write because. I've seen you talk about that. What what is that doing to to the brain. or to our minds.

when we like write something and put it. everywhere and just constantly see it? Um well, so writing it down activates. the those path It's similar to. affirmations. So just the act of writing. down an affirmation actually has been. shown to activate reward pathways in the. brain which boost dopamine. So it makes. you feel good in the moment, but also it. just serve I mean it serves as a visual. cue and reminder every time you look at. it which activates that pathway in your. brain every time you look at it and then. that pathway becomes through Hebb's law,

neurons that fire together wire. together, the more often that you. activate the pathway the stronger it. becomes and then it can become your. dominant way of thinking, feeling. >> the default. >> right? It becomes your default mode. >> calligraphy and rock art throughout the. ancient times, right? If it's written. down and it's there and it's beautiful. you're meditating while writing. So it. means you believe in it. >> into the it go. I'm a [clears throat] big fan of. handwriting, especially affirmations. Like for for example, I do this identity. shifting visualization. I like to write.

down who I saw by hand. It actually in. it it improves your ability to remember. whatever it is versus typing. Our brain. didn't evolve type. >> Yes, yeah. That's that has nothing to do with this. motion versus Yeah, I also just see like. especially journaling by hand. I I. notice patterns in my thinking and I get. ideas for content and stuff like that. way more than if I'm typing. Let's talk. a little bit about. psychedelics in general. Over the past let's say 5 years and. maybe a decade I've I've noticed science.

slowly opening up and being allowed to. open up to like in its defense, you. know, cuz the US government changes and. you see these things changing around the. world, but. we've seen a a shift now in how people. treat even the conversation around. psychedelics. Where once it was. considered, you know, like this hippie. thing that'll just destroy your life, etc., etc. Now we've seen. you know, the government doing tests. around like MDMA therapy and what it. could do for veterans and looking at.

psychedelics and how terminal cancer. patients. completely. subvert how they feel about the. possibility of dying when they've now. consumed psilocybin or people on DMT, ayahuasca, etc. What do you think or what have you seen. that. has sort of like opened up a different. area of how we see the brain and the. mind because of psychedelics? Like. cuz I'm the research now is still like. young in a weird way, even though we've. had it for long and then we have some. old stuff that's that's applying to now,

but. >> it was cocaine that was the cure-all for. everything. >> Wait, really? Yes. That's what I was. trying to say earlier, you know, we. think we view this as a new. mode of, you know, investigation, but. it's not at all. Like psychedelics were. popular way back in the day, drugs were. popular way back in the day. Yeah, yeah, whenever. whenever I was in the PhD and studying. drug addiction, like I. learned about how all these, you know, came to be and Well, you started before. I forget, there's something I want to. ask you about that though. How do how do. we define an addiction? I think a lot of.

people struggle with this. I I might be. one of them, but I I know a lot of. people go, "I'm not addicted." You know, like sometimes people go, "I'm not. addicted to my phone. I just I just I I. just use it and I I I like keeping up to. date with stuff and but I'm not. addicted." And someone else will be. like, "Oh, no, I'm not addicted to that. I'm not addicted to this. I'm not" How. do how do we actually define addiction? Yeah. Well, I mean, there is a whole. DSM-5 criteria and, you know, but I. think when you think about just. behaviorally, it's tolerance and.

dependence. And it's all about. withdrawal. Right. I mean and withdrawal. kind of can go in with tolerance and. dependence but when really like in in. the science world we don't even really. use addiction. We use like you know. dependence. and. or substance abuse and really what you. what I look at and when people ask me. that I what that I work with right? Because there are people that you know. smoke weed or different things and. should I stop? How do I know? And really. it's it's tolerance and dependence. Do. you do you have the ability to stop?

Like do is that a conscious choice? If. you were to would you feel bad? That's. dependence and tolerance right? Tolerance What happens when people say I. can stop anytime I want to I just don't. want to. Cuz you hear people say that No I I know. you're acting right. I hear people say. that and then I don't know. Yeah but I I don't It's denial. It's. denial and I think again you can't you. can't stop unless you want to and that's. kind of what I was saying earlier. You. cannot convince somebody to stop a. behavior if they don't want to stop the.

behavior. And so that's I mean obviously. we know from objectively outside looking. in okay you're probably dependent on the. this thing. If you don't want to stop. then you're dependent on it. and if it's going to make you feel. emotionally you know worse and you feel. worse if you don't use it or do the. thing like for example the phone if you. want a day without it would you feel a. raise in anxiety levels and they there's. been studies on that and that's shown. that the people do feel an increase in. anxiety without the phone. I personally. feel a decrease. I don't like I love not.

being around my phone. But yeah if if you are going to like we. were saying earlier with the nicotine if. you're going to. quit cold turkey does that increase your. anxiety levels? Well that's dependence. and also tolerance is do you need it. more and more and more over time? And so that's another way of knowing you. know am I becoming dependent on this. drug? Am I becoming addicted? >> then? Can you be addicted to good things. like Absolutely. Like working out or. something. I don't know. I don't know. I. don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. know. I don't know. I don't know. I. don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. know. I don't know. I.

>> centers of the brain. Every single one. And so, anything that is anything that boosts. dopamine in the reward centers can. technically be addictive, right? Especially if you have an addictive. personality. And I think yeah, there are. things that, you know, you can become. addicted to that I like personally for. me, I love the grind. Like I love the. feeling of sitting down and being at. like working for like 7 hours straight. Like Oh, wow. Okay. I It feels so good. to me. I love it. And you know, being in. college I and and recently was writing. my book I kind of forgot like damn, this.

makes me feel really good. It's sort of. addicting. Um and it you know, I have this mindset. of like I I really am my own biggest. cheerleader cuz. every time I get up to go to the. bathroom or get some water I'm like. you're doing such a great job and like. you got this. And I get so much dopamine. from that. And then also that pride in. yourself whenever you after you've done. it, it's like that feeling is addicting. So absolutely like you can be addicted. to good things for sure. >> So now so sorry, going back cuz you were. going down the path you were talking. about um. the work that we've done in and around.

understanding the brain and how. psychedelics and all of these things. affect and you talk about in addiction. etc. etc. So going back down that. pathway, what what do we. what are we starting to understand that. we've maybe forgotten or or what are we. picking up on in the fields of. neuroscience and psychedelics and how. they can help people and how they can. maybe not help people or what does it. even like help us understand about the. brain itself? Yeah, I think one of the. coolest things that it's taught us about. the brain is about quieting the default. mode network of the brain.

Um you know about that? Okay. Um yeah, I think that what we've found. through psychedelic research, um. especially psilocybin, LSD, um and also. meditation quiets the default mode. network as well so does hypnosis. Um but. what we've found is that when you can. quiet the default mode network, you. actually can you can alter your sense. your self concept your sense of self. habits you can alter you know past. memories and or trauma you can you can.

really alter things in a way that we. haven't really had the ability to before. and that. and you you come out of that experience. a different person is the point and when. you when you alter your self concept. like if you go on YouTube and you look. up oh quantum leaping every single. hypnosis for quantum leaping is all. about just altering concept like that's. really what it's about when you alter. your self concept you alter the story. that your default mode network has saved. as who you are. >> person. >> Right. I'm a messy person.

>> alter your self concept and who you are. that story of who you are then well your. default mode network is not only. responsible for who you are but also. your default mode of thinking feeling. behaving your decision-making all of it. so when you alter your self concept now. your default mode of thinking feeling. and behaving is different. And so it. changes you forever rather than just. over time working on reducing your. stress or no when you change who you. think you are and who you know you are.

the person that you are then it changes. it changes everything. >> it's almost like. these are just external tools and as you. said meditation are all internal tools. but fundamentally what it's able to do. is change which lines you're perceptive. to as your kitten. You're like shifting you're like I'm a. horizontal kitten or I was a vertical. kitten my whole life and it's like oh no. no no now you can you can work on. changing that and you're like no no I'm. I'm not a horizontal kitten anymore. >> But I think Wayne Dyer said it nicely.

when he says change the way you see. things and the things you see will. change. >> I love Wayne Dyer. He's he he was incredible and. it's it's how Oprah changed her life. right and changed the course of her show. when she started giving things away and. making people feel good and recognizing. people who hard was because she was. affected by the book. She She had read. the book and she thought it's not about. salaciousness and gossip and about. conflict. This show could be This show. could be about giving and sharing. It's. that reading these books and the book. club introducing people to these.

concepts and then they started seeping. into the Garry Zukavs and them into the. zeitgeist of what America started being. about when they thought of a talk show, right? Right. And these drugs, of. course, they also boost a lot of. neuroplasticity as well. And they And. And that helps to change the brain long. term, too. So, it's kind of a. combination of a lot of things happening. all at once, which is why these drugs. can make such huge differences in. people's lives very quickly. >> Right. Um and we do we can do those. things, you know, over time, but also, you know, these drugs they alter.

people's state of consciousness. They. They They allow you to look at the world. in a way that you've never seen the. world before. And when you do that, you. There's no going back from that. experience, right? Like You You can't. unsee it. I remember the first time I. ever looked at the moon and saw like, you know, we When you look at the moon. and it's like a a waxing crescent or. something, you see a crescent moon. And. I remember the first time I looked at. the moon on psilocybin and saw the. entire moon, but just that the sun was. coming from over here only lighting up. that little bit. And I was like, "Oh,

wow." And I saw it in a way that I can. never unsee ever again. And it's it's. it's the way that it actually is. And I. think, you know, and this is my personal. kind of. opinion or theory on this, but it. like we've talked about, the brain. constructs everything that we see. It. constructs our entire experience. And. so, these mind-altering drugs, they. construct they they kind of. get get allow you to see those different. like what you were saying in the video. the replay They allow you to see the. different replays from all these.

different angles, right? And have this. all of a sudden brand new perception on. life. And you don't come out of that. like You don't come out of that the. same. You come out of that viewing the. world completely different. >> what's You know what's funny? I've. always thought, sorry I was I was going. to I've always thought that's why. alcohol is legal. and like all these psychedelics have. always been pushed to the fringes of. illegality. because. alcohol, from what I've experienced and. what I've seen, is something that's sort. of like dulls your senses in that way.

And it's a depressant. >> Yeah, and it's it's a perfect tool to. keep people living in a system that has. you suppressed and oppressed in a. certain way. And then psychedelics, I don't know if. you ever read this thing, it really blew. my mind was um in and around like the. whole free love movement and you know. Vietnam and that whole time one of the. biggest things that scared the US. government at that time, I think it was. Nixon, I stand to be corrected, I'm. always bad with the presidents, but I. think it was his administration one of. the things they they talked about. internally was they said.

these drugs are undermining the very. the very principle that America's built. on and that is people aiming upwards to. be like manager, manager's manager, district manager because people were. just like, no. Do you need a ride? Jump. in. Let's go then. Do you need some. food? Come on. Let's go. Hey, come hang. out with us. People just walking around. like free love movement. Yeah. But now. became they're like, we need to shut. this down Yeah. because it goes against. the structure that we're building which.

is get as much as you can from as many. people as you can and just fight to stay. there in your own little world. We we. can't allow that. But alcohol, ironically, does the opposite. If you go. to a job that you hate and you hate your. world and you hate your thing, you have. alcohol. Makes you feel better about it. >> It makes you forget about it even more. than that. And it just it just numbs. you. Makes you feel less about it. >> Yeah, makes you feel less about it. And. then you go do it again. And then you go. do it again. And then you go do it. again. But if you took psilocybin or if. your manager took psilocybin or what, there's a good chance they might just be. like hey man, I don't know, take Friday.

off. Who who cares about Friday? Did you. do the work? Did you. >> to TRY A LAWYER. >> [laughter]. >> BUT THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGE, IMAGINE THE. JUDGE. >> you might just be like, "Hey, you know, who even needs this defense?" Like I'm. like The judge. Yeah, a person might be like, "Actually, aren't we already in prison? I'll go in. It's fine." But but I I say this. personally joking. No, no, no, you're. absolutely right. It makes sense. It's. still true at the same time. Yeah, I. mean, I've had experiences where I'm. like, "You know, maybe I should just. live in this, you know, national forest. that I'm in right now. This would be.

awesome and never talk to anybody and. not have a phone." Like that would be. great. And it really has you wanting. that. That's what I That's what I mean. about like the the further the further. we get in disconnect. And we could talk. to you forever, and I mean, that's why. you wrote a book. That's why you have. your podcast. That's why you have all. these things. If if you were to leave us with one I. mean, you've left us with so much there, but if you were to leave us with like. one. just like one idea or one concept. in terms of starting. You know, people talk about journaling. People. talk about meditation. People talk about. People But what would you say was just.

like just the first catalyst that you. would say to somebody, "Hey, just just. do this and do it repeatedly. And it might not change everything, but. I think that this is like the the first. step that you might want to take to just. start changing how you see the world and. yourself in it.". Yeah, I would say the first step and we. touched on this a little is starting. with your. internal sort of conversation and like. how you. think about yourself and about the world.

and just kind of rewiring that. That's. where I started. Um well, I would get up. every single morning and I would go on a. walk and I would listen to affirmations. on YouTube. I actually still have that. playlist of affirmations on YouTube. completely available to everybody. So, if you want to go and listen to it, uh. go for it, but I start rewiring the way. that you think and that will change. everything. Like when you change the way. you think, we talked about you change. the way you look at things, the the. things that you look at change, and the. first step in changing the way that you.

see the world is changing the way that. you see yourself and changing the way. that and we talked about this with. relationships too. Like everything. changes when you change how you treat. yourself and you will no longer settle. for anything less than you deserve and. you'll believe in yourself which is. extremely powerful. So I would say that. really is the first step is working on. your own self-concept and how you talk. to yourself and that's the best place to. start because even even if your external. reality doesn't change which I think it. will your internal reality definitely.

will and you'll start to feel better and. at the end of the day what's the point. of doing any of this work of rewiring. your brain if you don't feel better. Like that's that's the point of all. that's the whole point is to feel. better. Like we get so caught up in. manifesting this or manifesting that or. this achievement but life the majority. of our life is the time between the. achievements. It's the. the journey. It's the if it was about. the destination it'd be called death. It's about the moments between the. achievements and so how can we make.

those moments more enjoyable and it. really just comes down to how you treat. yourself how you talk to yourself. that'll change every It does change. everything when you change the way that. you talk to yourself and treat yourself. So I would start there. You've changed everything. Thank you for. joining us. Thank you guys for having. me. This has been great. >> I not tell you this would be one of your. favorites? Did I I wrote that down in your journal. buddy. Are we going to be friends now. Eugene? >> [laughter]. >> Yes we are. Yes we are. No and for real thank you so. much. This is amazing. >> Thank you for your generosity. Yeah.

thank you guys for having me. This has. been awesome. Thanks y'all. You never lied did you? Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it pass it on to. a friend. If you didn't enjoy it pass it. on to your friend still. Let them suffer for a change and don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. If you want to suggest a guest. maybe there's questions you want maybe. there's ideas [music] that you have you. can chat to us. We will read through the. comments and we'll get into it. Either. way, I appreciate you taking the time.

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