Eliza Filby: Hard Work Is a Lie, This Is What Rich People Never Tell You

Millennials are struggling to make as. much money as their baby boomer parents. [music] They face greater wealth. inequality than previous generations. >> It's called the great wealth transfer. More than 100 trillion dollars expected. to go from baby boomers to Gen [music]. Xers, millennials, and Gen Z by 2048. >> One of the best things that you can do. to save money in 2025 is to live at home. with your parents. >> The only reason that I was able to save. my first $100,000 was because I lived at. home. >> You don't pay your rent. I'm like one of. those like spoiled rich kids that. doesn't pay rent.

>> Historian, author, [music] and. generational expert Dr. Eliza Philby. Eliza's writing has been published. [music] in the Times, The Guardian, and. the Financial Times. And she's recently. published her latest book, Inheritocracy. It's time to talk about. The Bank of Mom and Dad. [music]. >> This is [music] What Now with Trevor. Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods. Market. Eat well for less.

[music]. >> That's good tea. >> Yeah. >> Having that sense. >> What tea? >> Tell you why. Cuz herbal tea. Herbal. tea. >> Ginger and lemon. >> That always feels like medicine to me. >> No, this one is actually doesn't have. that medicinal taste. >> Are you sure? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> I mean, it's lemon and ginger. Lemon and. ginger to me are medicines. >> It is medicine. >> I enjoy them, but they're medicines. body just thanks you. It just thanks you. when you drink. >> cuz it's medicine, >> you know. It doesn't thank you when you.

drink coffee. >> No. Do you drink coffee? >> It's not medicine. >> No stimulant. >> I prefer. So I usually have if I haven't. eaten anything, I'll have the coffee, the matcha. I mean the the mocha, but if. I've eaten like I have now, this does me. good. >> cuz it helps me from feeding. >> Settles your stomach. >> Medicine. >> Everything you've said is medicine here. [laughter]. But don't you think don't you think as. actually as a sort of human beings are. getting better at. >> relearning all that we've forgotten in.

the age of like mass consumption. >> about food we're relearning it all. >> and slapping a fat price on it. >> and charging the earth for [laughter] it. >> and giving it. >> and discovering. >> herbal tea I always say the greatest. trick corporations ever pulled [snorts]. was getting poor people to. be ashamed of all the things that they. do. >> and consume. Yeah. >> And then once they gone off of it, the. corporations jump in and then they they.

claim it and then they sell it for a. fortune and then when you try to come. back, it's gone now. >> Mhm. >> Do you know what I mean? Like everything. everything. >> all of that learning, all of that. knowledge throughout the family. The. >> the the culture, the cooking down the. generations is gone. you've infused, you know, the work, you. know, the sort of idea of eating from a. KFC bucket as part of like family time. >> Mhm. [laughter]. [gasps]. and yeah, slapped a fat price on. something that was originally basically.

>> like um. >> source of I I was always amazed when we. were growing up, >> one of the things moms used to get. shamed for all the time, especially. African mothers, was tying their. children to their back with like a. blanket or with a, you know, whatever. fabric [clears throat] you would use and. they'd be like, "Oh, the ergonomics are. terrible. There's no support. This is. not how you should hold a baby. Your. child's legs are being suffocating your. child. Oh, the whole thing. The whole. thing." And then like you'd see over. time people like, "Oh, you've got to get. better. You got to buy a pram, got to. buy a stroller, you've got to," it.

became this whole world. And then when. that was done and that maybe that market. was saturated, all of a sudden they. went, "You know, there's a more organic. way to hold your child.". >> And they're like, "Let me introduce you. to the baby sling. This is how you reconnect with your. child.". >> Yeah. And they're like, I like I like I. like it better when you said it. >> Cuz all of that. >> was a seduction about. >> I sell things. [laughter]. >> No, to reinforce your point. >> Seduction of selling. >> No, but to reinforce your point, there. is a shop in Tooting where I grew up. where the book in.

>> Tooting. >> Tooting. >> Yeah. >> You're from Tooting. >> I'm from Tooting. >> You been to Tooting? >> I didn't know that Tooting was a Ting. >> It's Tooting is a Ting. It's near. Brixton. >> So Toot's a shop that is just selling. slings. Doesn't sell pram. Doesn't sell. bottles. doesn't sell anything but. organic cotton slings. >> In America, they call it papoose. When. you put a child across. >> Yeah. >> on your across your shoulder, but. they're sitting right here in front and. you put them in that swaddle and then it. >> Yeah. You see all of that? >> And now you get money from it.

>> Meanwhile, people were basically doing. it for free. >> Our mothers didn't paint it. >> That's That's the real That's the. inheritance we could have gotten. >> Yep. See what I did there? Segue into a. conversation. >> You know what I love about you? [laughter] Tell me. [laughter]. [gasps]. Carry on. [laughter]. >> Uh Eliza, thanks for joining us. >> Oh, pleasure. >> I. >> having fun already. >> You know, I I was I was talking to.

Eugene before before we started um this. episode like earlier today and Eugene. was like, "What excites you about. talking to Eliza?" And I said, I'm I'm. always just like out of this world. excited and and choing at the bit when I. engage in an idea that I just didn't. have. Flat out didn't have. Some ideas I. think I had in life. And then every now. and again you'll you'll bump into. somebody who is telling you something or. discovering something or sharing. something that you just didn't have in. your head. And I feel like inheritocracy.

is inherently one of those topics like. your book, the way you've thought about. the subject, the way you speak about it. Because most people in the world right. now are going, why can't we afford. houses? >> Uh why does it seem like education is. pointless for everybody? Um why do. people not want to have children? Why. don't people get married? What is. happening with economies? Why are young. men angry? Why are young women feeling. destitute? What is going on in the. world? And people will tell you, "Oh, the corporations." Yes. And you know. there's a good part of that and some.

people say the governments okay it's a. good part of that as well. >> but this book and what you've looked at. here is one of the more unique takes. I've ever seen that gives us like a deep. understanding of how it all goes and I. mean like I want to get into everything. but just on on on the like on the. surface of it all is what is an. inheritocy when you when you use that. word what is that? >> Thank you. Wow that was great. Um, just. I deliberately chose that word because I.

knew it would be provocative. It's the. antidote to a meritocracy, a society. that's built on merit. One that is to do. with hard work and reward. And in. herritocracy is to do with the lottery. of birth. >> You can't choose who your parents are, but increasingly it's determining the. opportunities you have. >> Wow. >> And so I wanted to write about that. because I was like, we're not talking. about this enough. there's a level of. shame, embarrassment, concealment. Um, and it is defining the 21st century. And. the book is is essentially, it's a.

memoir. It's my own story, but I define. in an inhertocracy. as one where. your opportunities in life are not. defined by what you earn because wages. are have stalled, certainly in Europe, and are slightly more here, but very out. of out of out of whack with house. prices. Your opportunity is not defined by your. wages. It's not defined by your. education because, as you said, the. return on that investment, all that hard. work is declining, particularly now in. the age of AI. Yeah.

>> It's ever more defined by who your. parents are and the leg up they give you. and the safety net they create. >> And that's the story I wanted to tell. >> You you started from a very personal. place. You know, you you tell the story. recording your father's life. You know, the your father's um really ill. It's. towards the end of his life and you. you're recording his life in his house. that he inherited. >> And it's interesting that at that moment. you're sort of having this epiphany. where you're going like what what are.

the stories that we don't even realize. we get told and we inherit from our. parents that define the lives that we're. going to go on to live. And by the way, I'm not I don't mean just on a like a. psychological level. And I'm talking. like a like dollars, pounds, rand cents. level. It's just like this is the. journey that we're going to get because. of the person who came before us. >> Yeah. And I I think I I wanted to start. the book in that moment because I. remember it so well. My eight-month-old. son was playing in a play pen and being.

really rowdy and screaming and I was. trying to recall my dad who was. stuttering and muttering and really. towards the end of his life couldn't. really coherently sort of articulate. himself. But I was so struck by what was. about to be lost. M. >> the stories, the memories, the the. knowledge, the expertise, the lived. experience. And my family is quite. unique in that I'm from London, but. we've never moved. And when I say we've. never moved, I I grew up in the house.

that my mom still lives in and my dad. inherited, >> but my family were were grew up, born, worked, lived, died in the same area for. about 200 years. >> Wow. >> So like we have never moved. Like our. story is so dull, right? It's just the. exceptionalism is that we've never But. so many so many stories. No, I still. live in literally around the corner from. my mom. >> Yeah, but it's it's gone from dull to. being exceptional now because. >> but it's weird that because in a weird. sort of way, you know, London, like New. York, like you know, other parts of the.

world has such a kind of um movement of. people and and and and various sort of. histories that are really complex and. chaotic. And I was like, "Dad, tell me. tell me the mundane stories. Tell me. about the horse. Tell me about the pet. dog, you know, like and because I just. actually there was nothing exceptional. in the stories of our family, but. [clears throat]. >> I knew they were about to be lost. And. so I still have those tapes. I can't. listen to them. >> Oh wow. >> I can't listen to them. And um they're.

there perhaps for my children to listen. to. But it was that moment, that realization. of can I carry this forward to my. children. >> because I don't think I now have all the. details to do that. >> Yeah. >> So tell me, Dad, tell me tell me what. our story is. >> What makes it difficult for you to. listen to those stories? Cuz I'll tell. you. >> the [clears throat] other day I when I. was saying goodbye to my mom before. coming here, >> she just turned 72,

>> right? >> But in my head, she's frozen in time. But I just turned my head quickly to. look at her while she was talking and. for a second I couldn't recognize her. I. felt like she had grown old right in. front of my eyes and I didn't see it. It. took that moment for me to see it. So. there's things that she says obviously. like you're saying now about where she. comes from and what she done to get. where she is that make me go. >> I feel like there's a big chunk that I. haven't listened to that I haven't heard. from her. So what is it about your dad's. stories that made you feel like you're. not ready yet to listen to some of them?

I think [sighs and gasps]. I think it's when a parent dies. >> and and I I was in the weird situation. where my father died and my father was. diagnosed with cancer and I gave birth. to my son all within a couple of months. of each other. So I was confronting. death and life really sort of very much. in a in a stark way. And the reason I. can't listen to my father's stories is. because actually I haven't fully.

processed his his death. I mean four. years on, you know, and I've had three. years of therapy and [laughter] I've. lived other lives and I've person what. therapy or congratulations. Thank you. >> Oh, no. All my English friends when you. say that you go like therapy, they're. like, "Huh? What's What's wrong with. you? >> What's wrong? >> What's what's wrong? Is it the whole. stiff upper lip thing?". >> It's all very. >> Yeah. You got You got to hold it in. Oh, all right. All right. Well, that's okay. [laughter]. >> But I but I I I can't.

>> I just can't do it. And it's it's maybe. there will be a time when I listen to. those stories with my children. I think. that'll be it. >> And what's actually I don't mention in. the book, but my dad did it with my. grandmother. So, in she died in 1986 and. he he um he actually filmed her talking. about her life and and and and telling. stories and we sat around actually about. four years before my father actually. died watching my grandmother tell her. life story.

>> Wow. And you know, it's it's just so. bizarre to kind of like and there was. three generations sat there listening to. my their you know, the grandmother, the. the matriarch of the family tell us. about the Second World War, tell us. about, you know, what it was like being, you know, a woman on a motorbike in the. 1930s, very unheard of, you know, just. it's that connection to the past that. feels that you want to feel. We're so. connected to the future and the present. now.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Mhm. But, you know, we've lost that that. that personal that emotional that actual. connection to the past down the. generations. And I always felt that very. viscerally in my family because we lived. in the house that my grandfather had had. won in a card game. >> Card game? >> Yeah. He was a gambler. He was a serious. gambler. We we. >> very good gambler. >> My father My [laughter] Yeah, he was he. was. >> set you guys up. >> Well, no. What he did was this is very. very clever. He once he won it, he put. the deeds to the house in my in his.

wife's name, my grandmother. So he. couldn't gamble it again, >> right? That's the key. >> That is the key. >> But the point is is my dad is now buried. in the garden of that house. >> So So there's so much it's just all it's. very located in place for me. For other. people it's it's in different families, different stories, different different, you know, um generational histories, but. the mundane was what I was interested. in. But it it took you on a journey that. I I think everyone can relate to beyond.

just like one story and one family. I. almost feel like we don't think of. inheritance until we're reaping the. benefits or the or the loss of it. Do. you know what I mean? So like climate. change is a good example, >> right? We don't really think about the. inheritance of climate change until. we're now experiencing the effects. Then. we go, how did it get this way? And how. how did we have these factories and who. decided that this was okay? And now you. look at the chimneys that are, you know, puffing out smoke from all these things. and you go like,

>> now you think about the inheritance. >> and and in the book you you get into it, I think for everyone everywhere in the. world. >> If you're in the United States. >> right now, you are thinking to yourself, do I have a future? And some people are saying, what did I. actually inherit? >> You know what I mean? What did we. inherit as a country? What did we. inherit as children from a previous. generation? in South Africa, people. asking the same thing. In the UK, half. of the question, half of the. conversations I have with people sort of.

center around that feeling, you know. Um, and I I I was I I was reading. through through your work and I was. going, is this like a reckoning that needs to. change how we think about who's supposed. to give what to whom, >> or whether it should even be the way. it's always been? Like, is an. inheritance good or bad? is is is sort. of the question I'm asking. >> Such a brilliant question. and I wanted to approach the issue with.

in the round. I wanted to look at it. from all different sides which is why. yes it's a memoir my story how my. parents shaped my life. Um but I also. interviewed people sort of with very. different trajectories. People who come. from blended families who had really. difficult relationships with their. parents but accepted financial. inheritance. >> You know I interviewed a woman from. Mumbai and she is now living in London. and she was like why are you writing a. book about the bank of mom and dad?

>> Like of course there's the bank of mom. and dad. Of course they support you. Like of course why is this a thing? Of. course we live in an herritocracy. >> There was an expectation. She was like. she couldn't even understand why this. was an issue. And she said but you know. in in in India in Indian cultures in in. Indian families that multigenerational. contract is financial down the family. tree. >> to a point and then it goes up back up. the family tree in terms of care and.

support for the elderly. So she was. living in Mumbai. >> She was living in Mumbai in um she moved. to London. Um she got married. Both. parents had helped buy a flat in very. nice part of London, not cheap, >> but she fully accepted that she was. going to have to go back to Mumbai very. soon to look after not just her parents. but her in-laws as well. >> That intergenerational contract is about. yes about support, safety nets, financial aid, but also about care and.

you know the responsibility that. multigenerational responsibility. So. there's so much to unpack what you just. said there because I think what I wanted. to do was not go inheritance is all bad. you know like this is the system. economic system where it's all to do. with you know privilege economic. privilege and parents basically you know. creating a an easy path for their. affluent kids and you know whole sort of. nepo baby phenomenon which is you know. >> rightly uh [laughter].

mocked in society and culture. >> Whoa. You you think it's rightly. >> We'll come back to that. We'll come back. to that. >> Okay. We We [laughter] got to come back. to that. No, I've got thoughts on this. We got to come back to. >> We got to come back to Nepo babies. Put. a pin in it. Put a pin in it. >> Put a pin in it. >> You can't You can't just say inheritance. is bad. >> But you've also got to look at how. actually having massive amount of. support from your parents can be. disabling. >> It can be full of shame. It can be. demotivating. And so I deliberately went.

in search of people that had received a. lot of money and actually didn't want it. or felt controlled by it or felt. demotivated by it. >> because inheritance is, you know, and. that can be economic inheritance, it can. be, you know, it can be emotional, it. can be, you know, there's all sorts of. cultural canult, you know, but the the. key thing is is that this isn't just a. subject where we calm down and we make. some crude economic argument where we. go, right, there's the privilege view. and there's the best and you know.

they're screwed and they're you know not. because actually. the inheritocracy fundamentally isn't. this evil capitalist system. It's quite. often I would say the majority of the. time a system an economic model that's. built on parental love. >> Yeah. >> Right. So just dismissing it as crude. economic nihilistic you know system that. is really unfair. Yeah. >> I just wouldn't I I just felt wouldn't. do full service to the subject.

>> Do you think that the way the older. generation used to think about family. and about money sort of shaped how they. left an inheritance for their children? Right. So most of it would be a house to. stay in a home that you guys can all. share. some money to live in case you. want to study further if you're young. enough, if you're old enough to maybe. one day branch out and do your own. thing. But now we see people starting. families later and later in life. Yes. >> And do you think that will affect how. they leave um inheritance for their. children? >> Ultimately, yes. I mean, we're talking. about I think it's important to kind of. like drill down on on the fact that in.

the US, in the UK, most of Europe, Australia, Canada, English speaking. world, we're talking about trillions of. dollars here. You know, five years ago, it was estimated that the great wealth. transfer, the money trickling down from. parents to their kids was about 80. trillion in the US. Now, in 2025, it's. around 125 trillion. Wow. >> It's increased just because the amount. of the um assets and you know, stocks. have increased, right? So, we're talking. a considerable amount of money. In the.

US, you know, the over 50s own about 60%. of the nation's private wealth. So, we. have a huge disparity of older. generations. owning a lot of wealth. >> I read something the other day that. basically said. >> in New York, I don't know about other. major cities, but I think it might be. similar, but in New York, the entire. housing market is propped up by parents. who are in some way, shape, or form. subsidizing their kids. Almost every.

single young person you see who lives in. New York, New York, like Manhattan, Manhattan, >> they're not here on their own money. You. know what I mean? It's a parent who owns. a place, a parent who's renting a place. for them, a parent who's bought a place. for them, and then they're like, "Oh. yeah, you know, I'm just making my way. through life. I'm just like grinding, and you know, it's so hard living." And. it's like, "Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. You. you couldn't even be here unless your. parents were part of the 60% who own the. thing." And this is obviously unless. you're living with like 10 other people. in one apartment. >> Yeah. And this is the thing is it goes. unsaid. So, you know, the in New York.

certainly in London, it's 52% of of of. firsttime buyers on the property ladder, 52% have access to the Bank of M and. Dad, right? >> In the US, Gen Z, about a quarter of Gen. Z are getting that down payment from the. Bank of Mad. So, it's not as much. because housing generally is cheaper in. the US, right? Not everywhere, not on. the island of Manhattan, of course, but. generally speaking, where's in the US. where the real investment is. >> is in education.

>> So, it's it's paying for college. That's. where the Bank of Mad is sort of really. sort of getting people on that ladder, getting people on that trajectory. And. you you know how wealth works, right? The earlier you get it, >> the better it. >> Oh, yeah. It changes your trajectory. >> It completely. >> for for the rest of your life. When I. when I was reading your book, I was. thinking to myself, inheritance is. almost like a passport. Before you go. anywhere, it already determines where. you can go and how you can go. And we we. always go like, you know, a lot of. people be like, I I didn't get anything.

I barely got anything from my parents. It's like, no, no, no, you got the. passport. >> And so, even if your parents have put. you in the right country, given you. access to the right networks, or given. you the belief that they will be there. as a fullback, you've got a better. passport, you know? So you've got like a. Canadian passport or like a you know. Emirati passport and then like other. people have African passports where like. no country lets you in without 10 visa. interviews. [laughter]. >> What do you mean? >> Why? Why? Why did you have to. >> do you want me to do it like this? >> Oh, now you say our country. It's funny.

It's funny when it's a bad thing you. didn't want it and then when you Yeah. Okay. [laughter] Okay. Fine. Then some. people have. >> No, but it is though. It really is. It's. it's [laughter] it's a passport. Yeah. Yeah. It's a passport that takes you. through your life like just from the. get- go in what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's but it's a natural human. instinct, let's be clear here, to create. that safety net and that springboard for. your kids. I have two kids. It when my. first son literally came out of me, I.

was like, "Right, life's purpose has. arrived.". >> Wow. And your doctor was like, "Slow. down. Excuse me, ma'am. [laughter] Hold. on. I haven't been I'm not done with the. umbilical cord, lady. Excuse me, ma'am. Ma'am, please just wait a [laughter]. second. We're still busy. We're still. busy with them. But ma'am, please ma'am, [laughter]. please, >> please hold her down. We'll talk about. intergenerational health in a second. [laughter] Let me just finish with it. >> No, I was seriously I was not one of I. was literally not one of those mothers. who was like, let me just bask in the. glory of creating life. I was like, I.

got to create wealth because I h I have. to create some sort of financial. stability here. >> You immediately felt that thing. >> Guttural. Yeah. 100%. And I think in. America when I think about how my. cultural reference point for this by the. way is love is blind. >> Um how you guys talk about. generational wealth is the aspiration. >> There is so much more openness about I. am aiming to create generational wealth. In the UK, we No, no, no, no. Stated.

No, no, no, no. It's a It's It's. something bit shameful. Hush hush sort. of said, but you know, sort of actually. inferred. >> like daddy and mommy's money. You don't. you don't. >> you just don't talk about it because we. sort of, you know, our greatest export, right, is is Downtown Abbey. >> I thought you were going to say Gordon. Ramsey. >> Yeah. And [laughter] Gordon Ramsey, but. Downtown Abbey, we we kind of sell this. aristocratic past, but we like to go, "Oh, that was ages ago." Oh, that's not. >> societyy's not no longer like that. Class is no longer an issue. We have a.

self-made society. >> We have a meritoxic [ __ ] The thing. is is that class and the bank of mom and. dad. >> engineers privilege in the way that it. has always done if not more now than. ever before and we just don't talk about. it. But the US much more open. >> It's open. It's open but it's closed. though. I find it's interesting that you. just said that. So here's here's how I. see it. I I didn't I didn't pick that up. in the UK and the way you're saying it, but you you've really made it clear. But. I find in the US.

>> people also hide it. They just frame it. differently. They frame it as if they've. pre-worked. >> and they're going to get some postwork. going. So So they go like, "Yeah, well, you know, I want my kids to work hard, and that's why I'm I'm setting up a. college fund for, but they're still. going to have to earn their keep, and my. kids are not going to have it easy, and. you know what I mean? Yeah, I'm going to. get them into a good school, but I'm not. going to give them anything. and yeah, I. still want them. And you're like, you've. just told me everything you're going to. give them [laughter] and then told me. that they're not going to have to do it. You know what I mean? And they're like,

no, but they're still going to have to. they're still going to have to what? >> Well, I mean, and I'm not saying that. they won't have to do anything. >> But people like to make it seem as if. they're not giving them anything. >> You know, one of the more honest people, funny enough, about this was Bill Gates. >> Bill Gates. Bill Gates said, "I'm not. giving my kids. They're not inheriting. anything." And people were like, "Whoa, what do you And he said, "Yeah, I'm. giving all my money away." And they were. like, "Wow, what an asshole." What? And. Bill Gates was like, "Let me let me. ask." He said, "If what I have given you. with my name and with my network cannot.

earn you money, then you don't deserve. the money that I [laughter] have.". >> Cuz he he understood and I think. understands fundamentally. >> that the inheritance goes beyond the. checkbook. >> Do you know what I mean? He's like, "I. can get you into any room. >> I can get you talking to anybody. >> You're only thinking what's the bank. account? What's the bank account?" And. so now when when you say that I actually. wanted to go like to go to India, I. wonder if places like India are almost. more honest about it cuz people will say. I'm from a good family and things are.

going to go well and we're going to keep. this going and you're like oh you're. passing it down. They're like you're. damn straight we are. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. >> There's no like hiding and there's no. it's like no. the the lady I was I was. interviewing, she was like, "My dad was. saving for my wedding and my education. since, you know, basically my birth.". >> And there's no shame in that. There is. absolute pride in that. And I think that. you're right. It's the openness that is. there. >> I do think the there's another element. to this in American culture. It's quite.

unique to American culture, which is is. quite a legal driven culture and and. latigious. And so therefore, you know, 41% of genzers and millennials have. prenups in the US. Oh, right. And. they're binding in a way that they're. not in the UK. And. >> what do you mean? What do you mean not. in the UK? Like. >> then there they are. They're sort of. they're sort of binding. We have a. different legal system. But. >> prenups are incredibly [snorts]. important here. And what a prenup does. is it forces a conversation. >> before you get married. And so that.

culture of openness, I think, is also. because the lawyer's going, "Come on, >> what's going on here?" Oh yeah, >> what we going to do? What are we going. to do? >> And and I think why prenups have become. so important and not just the kind of. you know sort of things that celebrities. do anymore is because of the way the. inheritocracy and the bank of mom and. dad has changed marriage. >> Yeah. >> So what's happened is is it used to be. so there's this whole theory in.

sociology called assortative mating, right? Which is where you know. >> the idea is that you marry someone. similar to you. Yes. >> And in the '90s when more and more women. started going to university, what. happened was that graduates started to. partner up with graduates. >> and it was no longer the nurse marrying. the doctor, the secretary marrying the. boss. >> Women used to marry up. Now they. [clears throat] were marrying their. intellectual equal. Right? Mhm. >> What's happened in the last 10 years is. not so much graduates marrying.

graduates, but one individual with the. Bank of Ming mom and dad marrying. another individual with the bank of mom. and dad. >> So you're getting. >> this sort of Jane Austin like sort of. marriage culture. >> where if there is a divorce, it's not. the the son and daughter's money at. stake, it's the mom and dad's. >> [laughter]. >> The bank of mom and dad. >> The banks of mom and dad who are. fighting for their cash back. So prenups. become really really important in an.

inheritocy. >> Yeah. Because you have you seen one of. my favorite genres on Tik Tok is you're. on Tik Tok. People discovering Why Why. do you look so shocked? I'm a man of the. world. Eugene, I've invited you many. times and you've refused my DMs. So. [snorts] on Tik Tok. >> I'm on Tik Tok. You can follow me. [laughter]. No, you know, one of my favorite one of. my favorite genres on TikTok is um is. you like I forget how I stumbled on it. once, but it was people discovering that. the person they're dating actually has. inherited like a [ __ ] ton of money or is.

or is in like line. >> to inherit. >> Yo, it is to what you just said now, you. have not seen people's minds more broken. by the knowledge that the person they're. with is basically a pseudo prince or. princess that they didn't understand. >> Wow. And then they'll go, "Hey guys, [clears throat] so I just discovered. that the person I'm with is like the. heir to whatever fortune or their. parents own this mega company or they're. worth whatever million dollars and. whatever.". >> And they go, "We've been splitting the. rent and we've been No. And and they.

both Yeah. Yeah. And they and they both. live like a trashy life. They both like. struggling.". >> Then they find out the other person was. cosplaying the struggle and they were. really in the struggle. Do you know what. I mean? M. >> and it's different eating dry bread the. two of us if we both don't have money. but when you find out that I was just. you know what I mean you know when I. after high school I worked in a student. campus area at a in a CD store that. tells you how old I am.

>> and I would see a mixture of white and. black kids who'd be hanging out together. because they go to the same university. together but I could see in their. lifestyles outside of school that they. were not the same. others went to the. township and others went to the suburbs. and that inequality of what some people. have that leg up in South Africa is very. huge but also it's been weaponized as. well as to make other races look like. they're being lazy or they're not being. um how what's the word. >> industrious yeah they don't know how to. use their money properly. >> so.

>> until I was doing something with an. insurance company that explained how. most of the fortune that the Africanas. had was built was built through. insurance so the First first generation. >> Okay. >> Yes. First first generation. After. having a fight with the English. >> moving the booers moved. >> They started having farms. Those farms. were not making as much money. So they. decided to start co-ops and then they. start started to have insurance. companies that they built. Then they. would put money. So they the deal was. the first generation to get the payout.

mustn't use the payout. >> Oh interesting. >> They must use the payout to. >> to help the land and to help the kids. And then only the third one. >> can spend the money. Yes. But by that. time they already own the farm and. they've used the money from the first. insurance payout to to make the farm. viable. Then there's banks. Then they. can finance from the banks and then from. there from the farms they move to the. cities and then that's how the houses in. the suburbs were were financed in the. water clues and the Cape Town and all of. that. So by the time they have children. in the 80s and the 90s, those children.

already have a grandfather that owned a. farm and a dad that owns a house in. water for Chems Bay. Then they go to. school with us. And then you your. parents are from the township and it. looks like there's something that they. did wrong with their money. Meanwhile, it was just the leg up that the other. were afforded to pay a minimal amount. every month to inherit to to guarantee. that when the one passed away, a lump. sum comes your way. >> Oh yeah, that's the biggest one. And I. feel like insurance has been the biggest. scam of them all to help people get. rich. And a lot of black people in South. Africa don't know that you can actually.

use insurance that way to build. generational wealth. >> Yeah. One generation dies and from their. death, >> you get like this this beautiful. rebirth. And again, like to your point, I like that you said it, not good or. bad, >> but it's interesting how many people. don't realize what mechanisms some. people use to make sure that the next. generation has a slingshot. So it's like. your generation will die. >> and like if it was a game of Monopoly, the next generation gets to start with a. free roll of the dice. Like they get a. free six. >> Yes. >> And you're like, "Oh, we all started on. zero." Like, "Yeah, yeah." But your.

parents gave you a six. >> You know what I mean? >> But you write about this. You write a. bit about this in your book about what. you called your mom called the black tax. and how she had to sort of support and. fund. >> Oh, yeah. >> other parts of her family. And I I was. listening to a podcast with Michelle. Obama and she was referring to the fact. that when she entered the White House, everyone like her family, extended. family, friends [laughter] were like, "Tap tap, help me out. Help me out.".

there was an expectation and she was. like she had to really hold firm and say. >> no I'm a not as rich as you think I am. [laughter]. >> and b I have to you know make our family. supported and good before we can then. extend. >> the help and the. >> it's one of the hardest things anyone. will experience and we know it as the. black tax but I'm sure in other cultures. you can experience it it as well. >> if you come from a group of people.

>> who have been oppressed for a very long. time. >> Yeah. >> There is a good chance that none of them. have had the opportunity to acrue. wealth. >> Yeah. >> Because wealth compounds, right? >> If you are on zero and your cousins are. on zero and your grandparents are on, everyone's on zero, everyone's on zero, everyone's on zero. You are starting. from scratch, right? >> The issue though is like the person. who's next to you who goes, "Oh, I'm. also on zero. We went to the same. school." was like, "No, they aren't on. zero because their first paycheck,

>> their family has no claim to it.". Because they don't need to have a claim. to it. >> Do you know how liberating it is to earn. a paycheck and your parents aren't. calling you to say, "Hey, can you. >> can you help us pay this off and and can. you help us and and and that's something. you also get into in the book is like. >> we forget that an inheritance isn't. necessarily what you get in terms of. credit. It's also what you get in terms. of debt.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> One thing I loved about how Trevor. explained your book to me was it's. almost the same as.

>> I hate it when an athlete who's. naturally gifted and who has all the. opportunities in the world tells someone. else who's not as athletic that they can. do anything they put their mind to. [laughter]. >> You still mad that guy told you you can. dunk? >> Kill this thing. [laughter]. >> Who told you you can dunk? >> It was him actually. >> Okay. [laughter]. >> You can do it, Eugene. Put your mind to. it. 40 years later. >> But that's that's right. It's this the. idea that we're all starting from the. same point in the race. We're not. We're.

not. And so that the sort of pretense of. that I wanted to kind of literally lift. the lid on. >> I would love to also get some to hear. some research about how advice is given. depending on the group of people it's. given to. M. >> for example I have a big gripe with how. for example black people would be given. advice again in insurance that say a. funeral cover would be 120,000 120 rand. and will cover you for 80,000 rand but. life cover is 250 rand and will cover.

you for 2 million rand. >> but that advice would not be given to. that person because they think shortterm. the bank will lose obviously if. >> you see what I'm saying so most advice. is also tailored to the kind of people. that it's given to to sort of preserve. also the generational wealth that props. up these institutions. >> and and just just at what wealth band. you are at. >> Yes. What risk you can take. >> what mechanisms you can pull, you know, the kind of advice that you get, you. know, and and it is. >> there's a different bank division that. phones you,

>> right? >> Most people don't know that like there's. different banks in your bank. All of a. sudden, one day if you earn enough. money, someone else phones you and goes. like, "Hey, uh, let's talk to you about". And you're like, "Wait, where were you. all along?". >> Mhm. M. >> and they're like, "Well, now you make. money." And then I'm like, "Well, I I. don't need you now cuz I make money. Why. didn't you call me when I was trying to. make money?". >> Well, I mean, I had that kind of. scenario and I write about it in the. book because, you know, being a woman, there is a sort of still this perception. that, you know, your husband is the.

bread winner. And I went um with my. husband to go and see a financial. adviser. We were told to go by my. in-laws because we need to sort out our. money. I was 6 months pregnant. And you. know, immediately as I walked through. that door, the two financial advisers. went to shake my husband's hand and kind. of just sort of looked at my bump and. went, "When are you due?" Is that kind. of like that's what you do? >> That's what you do. >> And I ke the meeting was just like. literally none of it directed at me. It. was like I didn't exist.

>> Um and we came out of that interview and. I said to my husband, I was like, "We. are not going with them. like even if we. need a financial advisor like I do not. want to ever encounter those men again. And I was like reflecting on why and a. they had not obviously credited me as. someone that was capable of earning or. out earning. >> capable. financial advice and being thank you. being part of the decisions. you know, I. did the I do the weekly household. budget, but I'm not making the.

investment the big investment decisions. And it's like that's so shortsighted. because now, >> you know, you are seeing what I'm. calling the great gender wealth transfer. because we talk about the money going. from the parents to the kids. Well, quite often it doesn't go from the. parents to the kids. It goes from the. patriarch to the matriarch. It goes to. the mom. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. So the average you know. the average spousal transference of. wealth in the US is 1.4 million. >> So those women are inheriting on average.

in the US 1.4 million right. >> and women actually use their money very. differently to men. You can you know. obviously there's exceptions and nuance. in that but women are more likely to. give their money during their lifetime. >> Yes. >> Men are more likely to give it at the. point of death. >> Yeah. In a well women are are more. likely to take less risk in investments. more likely to invest in like ESG sort. of investments and and consider the. wider sort of community earth, you know, >> think very differently about money to.

men. And there's a whole generation of. women who are inheriting a lot of money, >> right? >> Who are kind of ignored by the financial. services industry. And then below that, >> you've got Gen X millennials and Gen Z. women, young women out earning a lot um. a lot of young men now. um a lot of. single female investors and homeowners. like to ignore like more than half the. population when it comes to financial.

advice is madness. And you're right, it's not just about gender, it's about, you know, racial categories and just. like the way that financial advice is a. privilege for the top top tier in. society. I think. >> that reminded me of um that reminded me. of the the the the part in your book. where you're talking about the history. of it all, like the origins, the. backstory. You know, a lot of people are trying to make sense. of the world they live in today because.

they've been told a story that doesn't. seem. >> to pan out. >> It's not jelling. >> Yeah. So, in the UK, if you're in. London, it seems like things are going. well. As soon as you leave London, you're like, "Whoa, what is happening. here?" And and those numbers are. deceiving. Oh, the GDP of the UK is. still and it's like, yeah, yeah, >> one company can be the GDP of an entire. nation. It doesn't mean the people in. that nation actually have the money. GDP. is deceiving, right? >> In the US, people are having a tough. time. And they go, "But I'm I'm doing. everything. I I'm working. I'm getting.

an education. I Why is this not working. out?" And then you travel around the. world and the stories are the same. South Africa, Australia with houses, etc. M. >> this is where the backstory I found was. so important because you you took a step. back and you talked about the boomer. generation and what they inherited or. what they experienced at that time that. they didn't realize they were. experiencing. Just just like walk us. through that because I know my mind was. blown when you when you broke it down. step by step where you went I think it. was like their values, their education.

and. >> Yeah. So I mean the baby boomers and. let's be clear that's a western term, right? There was a baby boom in the US. There was a baby boom in Europe. >> Slight baby boom in Japan, Australia, Canada. So we're talking, we're not. talking about a global phenomenon here, right? That's really important. It's. that generation born after the Second. World War had the advantages and also. the struggles, let's not forget, of that. post-war period. But there is an. exceptional and phenomenal.

period of great social mobility and. wealth. So and that generation. were the key beneficiaries of that. So. they were had access to widening. education of course. >> they had access to particularly in the. US the opening up of of the college. degree and greater accessibility. >> they had so the best educated generation. in history that had access to. >> the professions at a time when there.

wasn't the globalization of threat of. professions. So if you were a college. educated baby boomer who went into the. professions and bought a house and got a. really good pension and were quite savvy. with your money. >> Yeah. >> You've got a lot to pass down. >> Yeah. >> So that that trajectory, right? And. let's remember we're not talking about. all baby boomers. We're talking about, you know, but quite a fair chunk of them. experienced that period of meritocracy. I would say from really 1945 to 1979,

you know, that the Thatcher and Reagan. and the sort of neoliberal push is a. different story, but and they benefited. from that. But let's be clear, there was. a widening of participation in in. education, greater access for women and. men, and then you had this massive explosion. of assets and investments in the 1980s. and that has benefited them ever since. And so you got the democratization of.

property owning, property ownership and. investments. And so the wealth, the. access to opportunity. >> they had and then the access to invest. and build that wealth. >> is unprecedented and I would argue unre. repeatable. >> and exceptional. Truly exceptional. >> It's a it's a moment in time. I was. trying to explain it to my younger. brother. He he like and and so we're. discussing this and we're going through. I mean he's 21. So we we're having this. conversation, right? And he's [snorts]. like, "What do you think went wrong?". And you know, I'm reading your book and.

I'm trying to and the analogy I used for. him was I was thinking of video games. >> If you if you play a video game and you. get like early access, sometimes what. you can do is you can play the game. before it comes out. >> And I think now they've patched it in. most games, but what you could do is you. could actually build up your stats. before the game comes out. So you could. get all the good skins, as they call. them. You could get all the good. weapons. You could get all the tools. If. it was like a building game, you could. get the houses. You could build. you. could just build out. >> You're far ahead. >> Yeah. You're far ahead.

>> And then when everyone else got access, they came into the game and they could. not catch you. Now, for instance, like. FIFA was a good example. I remember when. we used to play FIFA, you would own a. player in the game, but you got to like. buy them before the game came out. So, the prices were lower. >> And then when everyone else came into. the game now, >> they had to buy the players from you, but because there's more people, you. could charge higher amounts for the for. the thing. And when I said it to my. brother this way, he was like, "Oh, damn." Damn. He's like, "Wait, so this. is I was like, "Yeah, this is how.

>> it is." You know what I mean? Because. they experience this explosion. >> at a time. And again, not fault, you. know, you don't even make it false in. the book. It's just they experience this. explosion. >> Yeah. >> And that sets a trend in place that the. next generations then have to deal with. So what you have is and and the sort of. way of thinking about it is. when millennials sort of came of age in. the aftermath of the financial crisis, certain things became cheap. >> Food no longer cheap, but food and. eating out specifically used to be, you.

know, was cheap, right? Buying a coffee, avocado on toast, you all of that it. became really cheap. Food used to be. really expensive. It used to be a fair. much higher chunk and proportion of your. income you spent on food. What else. became cheap? travel, you know, the. democratization of travel in the 21st. century has been all wonderful. Nothing. but benefits, right? [clears throat]. >> Except to the climate. What else became. cheap? Tech, of course, and that. universalization of the smartphone, laptop, whatever.

>> But what became expensive, and this is. the key thing, the things that were. cheap for baby boomers became really. expensive for millennials, their kids. >> So, what became expensive? healthare. >> in the US of course education both. public college and private. >> um and across um the UK and and really. across the world educ the cost of. education goes up. >> housing of course both renting and. buying that's the critical thing is both. renting and buying and so the and child.

care I shouldn't forget child care. because it's become extraordinarily. expensive. >> so what weirdly as millennials became. adults the big things in life, health, education, housing, >> childare, >> childare became really, really. expensive, right? >> And unattainable. >> But what became cheap was eating out, technology, travel, the three things. that are synonymous with millennials. It. wasn't that we loved all that avocado. and coffee. The economy was literally.

encouraging us to indulge in those. things. >> That's an amazing way. >> Encouraging us. >> unless you had the bank of mom and dad. So unless you had the bank of mom and. dad, you don't have access to housing, affordable health care, you know, affordable education, affordable child. care. And so the it's a two-part story. Number one is the baby boomers had this. phenomenal experience. >> Yeah. >> Again, some not all of access to assets,

professional workplaces, you know, investment in their pensions and wealth. >> And the second part of the story is. millennials didn't. [laughter] to their. parents, those that could pass the money. down. And they've been incredibly. generous. And and I was speaking to an. economist when I was writing the book, and he said to me, "The [snorts] way I. see it is they've been brilliant. parents, but bad citizens.". >> Damn. Say that again. >> So brilliant parents, they've gifted. >> as much as they can,

>> but bad citizens because ultimately it's. be created and contributed to this. widening inequality. Yeah. Wow. Good. parents and bad citizens. >> Don't go anywhere cuz we got more what. now after this. [music]. Whole Foods Market makes holiday hosting. simple with delicious prepared dishes, must-h have ingredients, and gifts that. are just as thoughtful as the food. And.

look, I'll be honest with you. Every. holiday season, I tell myself, "This. year, Trevor, this year you're going to. cook something." And every year, I. absolutely do not because the holidays. sneak up on you. One minute you're still. finishing the Halloween candy and the. next someone's asking you, "So, are you. going to bring a signature dish?". Signature, guys. I don't even sign my. emails. So, I've developed a system, a. Trevor Holiday system. I go to Whole. Foods Markets. I buy everything and then. I behave like I made it myself. I walk.

in with confidence. That's the key. chest out. Confidence and a nice bowl. You see, if you put something in a bowl, people assume you cooked it. It's. science. And Whole Foods makes it too. easy. The heat and eat dishes. Woo! Guys, creamy mashed potatoes, green. beans stuffing, all the classics. All. you have to do is warm it up, transfer. it into your own dish, and suddenly. you're getting compliments like, "Wow, Trevor, you really brought this this. year." Yes, I did bring it. And that's. technically true. And the desserts. Wow. Guys, let me tell you something. The.

holiday rum cake. Ho ho ho ho. Oh my. goodness. The tres leches. Those. desserts look like they require. childhood trauma. A French grandmother. and 12 hours of your life. Nope. I. bought it all at Whole Foods. Carried it. in, put it on the table, and I let the. lies flow. Someone said, "Trevor, this. is incredible. What's your recipe?" And. I said, "You know, a chef never tells.". Because in this case, the chef doesn't. know because the real chef was Whole. Foods. And if you're responsible for the. main course, I mean, they've got spiral.

cut ham, bone in, rib roast, the heavy. hitters. One year, I showed up with king. crab legs. People were silent. They were. stunned. They weren't really impressed. They were confused because nobody. expects king crab at Thanksgiving, but. it tasted good, so they got over it. And. to round everything out, I grabbed 365. by Whole Foods Market Staples. Green. beans, stuffing, dinner rolls, the. fundamentals. The 365 brand is basically. how I fill the table without filling my. stress levels. And here's the part. people don't think about the gifts. Whole Foods Market has cookie gift.

boxes, beauty gift sets, candles, flowers. I even built a cheese board as. a present. Yeah, not the board, the. cheese on top of it. It's one of those. gifts that looks thoughtful, but it's. really just cheese that's put in the. shape of something. People love it. So, yeah, my holiday hack is really simple. Whole Foods Market does the work. I take. the credit. Everybody wins. And. honestly, that's what the holidays are. about. Good food, happy people, and lies. told with love. Shop for everything you.

need at Whole Foods Markets, your. holiday headquarters. Is it still worthwhile to advise kids to. get a high education, to study, to. become a lawyer, for example? Cuz I was. telling you, my daughter said she wants. to be a lawyer, and I was like, I don't. know what to tell you, but maybe study. something that you enjoy, cuz I. >> [laughter]. >> cuz I. >> you're going to be doing it for a long. time. I'm just loving I'm just loving.

your dad having no you know obviously. every moment is happening in time. >> you know and then like there's the. cliche of asking your parents what. should I study and they're like become a. lawyer become like especially like. African parent you know doctor lawyer. engineer you got this and I'm I'm. picturing you just like. >> hey maybe just do something you like. yeah know hey yes things are tough out. there [laughter]. >> because I'm I'm the. >> it's a full 180 it's a full 180. >> yes because I'm the worst first person. to give to give [laughter].

career advice. I mean, what do I do for. a living? You know, >> like I studied for this. >> I'm picturing you in Braveheart now. You're just like there on your horse and. you're riding along and you're like, "Hey, look guys. Hey, they might take. our land. Hey, they might take. everything. [laughter] Let's just enjoy. ourselves. >> We're here now and charge." [laughter]. >> Oh, >> I think it's good advice, >> but it is a good It is a question I. think a lot of parents share, though. what what advice do you give.

>> you know if the hatches have been batten. down like what happens now. >> so I I one of the things that I wanted. to kind of make clear in the book was. that I was I was I was on that track not. for to become a lawyer but to become an. academic right so I was the first person. in my family to graduate and my dad was. like education education education. education and he was all kind of. >> um all in all in and also I came of age. when it was all about girls getting into. educ. you know, and actually as soon as the.

those doors were open, girls started to. out out out um destroy. really conscientious and good at exams. But anyway, I digress. The point is is. that then I like stayed. I did a BA and. then a master's and then a PhD and I was. like, I'm on track. I'm doing everything. I'm told to do. >> And by 31, I had a PhD. I was earning £10,000 a year. So about. $12,000 I think.

>> a year. >> A year. Right. I had a PhD. >> I had a part-time cleaning job which. involves some quite heinous toilet. cleaning. And. >> men's or women's bathrooms? >> Both. >> Which were the worst? >> Both. Men's. Come on. You know THE. >> OH, YOU SEE [screaming] YOU SEE THIS IS. WHAT I SAID THE OTHER DAY AND THEN THEY. LOOKED AT ME LIKE I was crazy. >> I looked at you like you WERE CRAZY. >> NO. EVERYONE LOOKED AT me like I was. crazy. >> Here's my logic. I said. >> people looked at I'm sorry people looked. at me like I was crazy. >> Let me answer the question. [laughter].

>> OKAY. >> PUT A PIN IN IT. PUT A PIN IN A PIN. Bathrooms and nipple baby. >> But the point the point I want to make. there because by the way there's there's. there's you know my dad his last job was. as a cleaner. But there's nothing more. demoralizing than thinking I've spent 10. years in education. >> and there's this hasn't got me anywhere. What? And the only place that had got me. somewhere was the fact that my parents. had helped support me. >> Wow. >> So I'd like I was like, "Hang on a. minute.". >> When it was all said and done,

>> I'm like, "Yeah." When when it was all. said and done, the only way I could stay. in London, >> mom and dad, the only way that I could. basically be like, you know, sort of. survive in London was the supplement and. support that my parents were giving me. at the time. And he was like, "You're. following your passion, though, aren't. you? [laughter]. Put on your love. You're having a good. time. [laughter]. >> I was like, I've gone wrong here. What? And and and actually the person the. people around me that that were were.

doing well without the bank of mom and. dad. >> were the lawyers. >> because actually if you look if you. track we're doing this um um on our. team. We we're tracking different. professions and what wages have kept. pace with house prices and education. costs and health care and childare. >> and it's lawyers it's not bankers it's. not engineers and it's definitely not. doctors. >> it's definitely not even even in the US. where doctors are certainly paid more. than than the UK so lawyers are you know.

the demons of capitalism always the. bankers right we always bash the bankers. yeah those lawyers get away with it. because they are getting paid very very. well particularly obviously the ones in. the big law firms, but they they have. their wages have outpaced house prices. in the UK and the US. And that is. something I don't think is talked about. enough. So, I think actually go back to. the law plan cuz I think that was a good. idea. Am I staying there? >> Oh, [laughter] wait. I'm going to throw. a curveball at you. >> She came up with it. >> I was going to throw a curveball just. from the tech side. [clears throat]. Don't forget that the legal space.

>> is seeing the greatest replacement of. entry- level jobs by AI. So tell your. daughter to study law, but also tell her. to become um an expert. No, no, no. Tell. her that she should have experience in a. law firm by the time she's trying to go. to a law firm. >> That is a problem. No, cuz. >> which is impossible. But [laughter]. I was like, >> but that's the careful is the things. that worked when we were in in building.

our professions, right? >> Not working now. So law actually is. uniquely exposed, particularly younger. lawyers are exposed to to AI, you know, and I I think because a lot of that work. is like checking documents and grunt. work and really repetitive stuff totally. be done by, you know, um an algorithm. LLM. >> So, so yeah, you're absolutely right. So, you know, I think maybe it's it's so. hard. I said I I you know I have two. kids. One's eight, one's four. And I.

just think again and again and again. What skills do they need? Not what. career path are they going to take? Because they're going to have multiple. careers. There's no way what they're. doing at 21 is what they're going to be. doing at 75 and they will have to work. till 75 because that's just a fact. [gasps]. >> Because I support them. No, but because. [laughter] because the economy is. changing, but like I think we fixate on. this like become this. >> Mhm. >> Become this, be an engineer, be a doctor. >> because that was safe before.

>> It's not safe. >> What do we say now to our kids? >> You need skills and you need to you need. to be agile. You need to you need to. learn not what to learn but how to learn. so that you can go away and if you need. to career pivot you can go away. concentrate work that out and pivot. What we don't have is an education. system that creates those learners. It. it it puts you on a track. You're this. you're in that department. You're in. that school. You're on that you know. route to career. And actually what we.

all need to do, not just Gen Alpha, not. just Gen Z, but also millennials, right, is is just be really. >> really sort of agile and be prepared to. like pivot, switch, >> learn, upskill, upgrade, change. direction. That agility. >> was there before. You know, my. grandfather had about 10 different. careers. Yeah. And I wouldn't even have. called them careers and gambling on the. side. And the only one that got in my.

house was gambling, [laughter]. >> which is a career. It is a form of. career. >> It is a form. >> But but but it's interesting when you. say that. It it makes me realize. >> that part of the thesis of your book. becomes even more clear when you look at. it through that lens. >> Could it be that we have defined society. by an exceptional moment in time. >> that is not the norm. Yeah. Right. So to. what you just said, your grandfather, your great-grandfather, etc. These. people had every job possible. And if. you talk to like if you had the. privilege of talking to someone who was. like way older than you, they'd say that.

they go I worked as a milkman and I and. like my grandmother she's like I worked. as a seamstress and I did this and I did. that and I did that and. >> we're not that old and we have those. stories as well. >> This is true. But it became ironically a. byproduct of poverty became our gift. because you we couldn't become a banker. Our parents couldn't send us to becoming. anything. >> So all you had to do was hustle in that. way and that's you just learn to be. agile and do what you can do. But it. makes me wonder if we have based the. entire view we have on the world on an.

exceptional moment in time. So in this. moment in time, post World War II, post. the world reconstructing itself, this. new influx of wealth, this new rebuild, >> then you will be an engineer because. there's so much engineering that needs. to be done. You will be a banker because. there's so much new banking that's going. to be done. You can be something. >> because there's so many new things. >> But as soon as entropy is reached, you're not going to see these big jumps. anymore in the same [clears throat] way. >> So being becomes a lot less attractive,

it seems like you're saying. >> Yeah. And and and that's in reference to. what job we do. You could also apply. that theory to how we live and who we. live with. Because like the US for. example, >> you know, one in six households in the. US is now multigenerational. Okay, that's three generations living under. one roof. Okay, that's double what it. was in 1970. So, we have moved, you know, ever more. towards multigenerational households, >> which was more which was more the norm.

>> That was the norm. >> Which was people forget the norm. Exactly. >> One family, two people in one house is a. crazy thing when you think about it. actually. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? >> And so now it feels like we're just. going back to what was before this. anomalous moment in time. like live with. your grandparents, live with your. grandchildren, live with your to your. point of like child care. I sometimes. wonder if the cost of child care has. shot up [snorts] the way it has because. people don't live with grandparents. >> Yeah. Lack of access to someone who can. help you.

>> Yeah. There never used to be a. babysitter when we were grow like that. concept I only knew from TV genuinely. I. I don't know about you. Did you ever. hear of babysitter? Babysitter was not a. thing. >> because the people who babysat were the. people who lived in the house with you. But also to be fair, a lot of things in. our community were not normal and they. didn't have titles. Like for example, there was no adoption in black families. There was no such thing. >> Like your cousin would just live with. you and never leave. >> and then you'd find out now he's part of. your family. But. >> those moments were the worst when you. found out oftent times because they had.

the biscuits that were aortioned for you. previously. >> But why was there so much guilt in. giving him all the things that were. yours? >> What do you mean? >> Exactly the biscuit story. Yeah. >> Like there would be this ah man, you. know, he's going. >> They would do that. Yeah, >> they would do that. And then now that. would build resentment cuz now you'd see. your inheritance slipping through your. fingers. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Biscuit. >> Yo, do you remember your grandmother's. tin of biscuits? That was your. inheritance. And then now you all of a. sudden you got to share this with. somebody else. [laughter] The will has. been changed. >> Let me tell you something, man. I still.

have scars. I [laughter] share, but I. still have scars. But that but that's a really important. point to to to sort of like. refer to how families look now. We're. talking about m the rise of. multigenerational houses um households. >> but also rising divorce and remarage. >> ah. >> and blended families really complicates. inheritance. My goodness. >> Tell us more. >> Well, I was I interviewed one girl in. the book and she had um she came from a.

uh she was a product of a divorce. That. was that was how she phrased it. And her. father had remarried and had um married. a woman who had two children. So they. were became his stepchildren. And there. was so much in her sort of expression. and voice and and tone that was. resentful that she knew that because. essentially her relationship with her. dad had become distant and his. relationship with his stepchildren had.

become close. the money, >> you know, and she wasn't being. materialistic. I was, you know, she was. really careful to caveat that, but she. was kind of like, you know, they'll get. what is essentially. >> mine. >> Mine. >> Damn. >> Yeah. And and that's, you know, one. example. I interviewed another guy who. was saying, you know, the problem I have. is that my first marriage, my children. are now entering their 30s and wanting. help with a house. My second marriage, my kids are going through school. So, I've got like these competing.

[clears throat] priorities just in the. age gap. >> of my two families. >> Still help that's needed though. >> Yeah. >> And then society will tell you. >> that one group is a failure because of. that. So, they'll go, >> well, the ones in school, you should be. helping them because of they need to get. through school. >> And the ones with the house, I mean, they they got to get out there and. they've just got to work. and and. society basically tells people that. they're failing and their families are. failing when in fact it's just a lack of. inheritance that's basically making you. make these decisions. Yeah, I I was you.

put that so well and I think you're. right because it's in a capitalist. economy there is a right way of doing. things and becoming a success. particularly in a capitalist economy. that is driven by social media and. comparison culture in which we are you. know have these images thrust into our. in our into our eyes every every second. I I got a message after I I published. the book actually from a from a a man in. his mid-30s and he said to me, "Thank.

you for writing this because I always. felt that I'd let the system down.". >> Damn. That I'd let the system down. >> Right. And he said, "Reading your book. made me realize that the system let me. down." Woo. >> And because he hadn't had access to the. bank of mom and dad, because he hadn't, you know, succeeded in education, because he, you know, he had this sense. of this very pervasive sense of being a. failure in modern, [clears throat].

>> you know, um, categorization. >> and, and I think, you know, that is such. a powerful thing. >> to to to to sort of compute and and. realize and it it is it is quite. defeating to say, you know, your parents. will determine your future. >> Yeah. >> But it's also empowering to know that. that's the system that. >> That's what I mean. That's what I mean. At least, you know, >> that's what I mean about the honesty of. it all. So to like to go back to the US. one, >> I always bristled when I would hear. people say bristled.

>> He's pulling out the fine china tonight. [laughter]. >> Bristle away, my friend. Bristle away. Great word. >> Yeah. Like a little hedgehog or. porcupine. [laughter] Um I when I when I. would hear people say the phrase. self-made. >> I I don't know why it got me. It still. gets me till this day. So when I when I. heard it, it was um the one that stuck. out to me was Kylie Jenner, right? She. had done an amazing job with her beauty. brand. It was whole thing. And they went. the youngest self-made billionaire. And.

I went I'm not discrediting anything. that she's done, >> but she's not self-made. And they're. like, "What do you mean her self-made?". Then I was like, "No, no, she inherited. everything from her family." And I'm not. again I'm not saying she's not good at. business and I'm not saying that she. didn't do well and didn't fit. No, no, no. >> But you cannot tell me that she didn't. inherit what Kim Kardashian had worked. to build by building her piece of the. empire. >> You get in the door a lot easier and a. lot quicker when you're Kim Kardashian. and then Kim Kardashian inherited from. her parents. Yes. >> Do you know what I mean? So if you're.

coming from a world where you you're of. the Jenners and you're of the. Kardashians, you've inherited something. And again, there's nothing wrong with. that, >> but there's an inheritance. Jeff Bezos. self-made in his garage. What they don't. tell you, he's like hundreds of. thousands came from family members that. enabled him to start these businesses in. a garage. >> and fail and start. >> Mark Zuckerberg, same thing. People go, "Yeah, he just dropped out and he. started." Guys, you can't just drop out. of school and start these companies. You. can try and maybe you will succeed and. be an anomaly.

>> But then his story also involves a bank. of mom and dad. >> Yep. >> Injecting cash. it. Well, it makes me It. actually makes me laugh because in. venture capital there's a phrase friends. and family round. >> Ah, they love that. No. Yeah. They call. [laughter] it that. >> They call it they call it the friends. and family round. So before you ask like. you know investors that you don't know, ask investors that you do. Yeah. >> Your friends and family round. >> So you have different rounds of funding. right when you have when you start the. company. And then one of they go uh. start with the friends and family round.

They call it a round as if it's, you. know, it it now makes it that you're. you're not just asking them. This is a. round of funding of course. And then to. your point and what you said about a. generation paying the next generation, >> go back and look, Google it, use AI, whatever you want to do, >> look at how much each of these family. members then got when the companies. would IPO. >> because that's another way where you can. give an inheritance back to your. parents. Mhm. >> You come from a wealthy family or you.

have access to wealth because of your. family, right? >> You start this company. You take a few. hundred,000. H still working hard. You. lose a bit of it. You lose all of it. They give you some more. You go back in. You do it again. Things go well. They go. well. They go well. They get even. better. Next thing you're launching a. company. It's an IPO. Before the company. lists on a stock exchange for everyone. else to buy the shares. >> Start here first. Once again, there's a. loophole that allows you to give friends. and family shares.

>> first. >> before the thing lists. >> Didn't know that. Wow. >> And now you can give them shares to a. company at a price. >> that basically is not it doesn't exist. yet. >> And that little investment that your dad. or your mom or your dad-in-law, your. mom-in-law gave you. >> now balloons. And look what you've done. >> Do you know what I So it becomes the the. the pre four skins. >> I mean that's one way to think of it. [laughter]. >> The the skins, not for skins. >> Yeah, but I need to get it before. So.

it's a four. >> This is true. >> I love that. >> This is true. I don't think anyone who's. playing video games would call them. They are skins. >> They are skins. There are skins in video. games. But if you get the skins before. >> before the game comes out, >> are they not for skins? >> Four for skins. >> Therefore, they are skins from before. >> So you're force skinning. you. >> I'm I'm willing to accept this as a. term. Many rich people are foreskinning. >> are foreskinning and so by foreskinning. they make sure that they're able to. erect a larger fortune. >> Got you to penetrate the market more.

>> That's exactly what it is. Sorry. We're. so sorry. We'll we'll cut ourselves out. of this podcast. We're so sorry. >> You've got a PhD. [laughter] You don't. deserve this. >> Back to the toilets. Look at everything. you've done and we've taken you back to. the toilets. [laughter]. Ah, brilliant. >> But it is that, you know what I mean? And and to your point, that's what I. mean by the honesty is like if we're. honest and we're not making it good or. bad, it just makes it a little more e it. just makes it easier.

>> Yeah. >> to to navigate. >> Just tell me that your parents had that. or acknowledge. It's it again, it's not. about fixing or not fixing, but it's. nice to know. >> It speaks to exactly what your your. writer said, the one who wrote your. letter who's 30 something. you you are. basically essentially lifting the veil. on what people have been so ashamed to. admit and it makes other people admit. even better. So in South Africa there. was a huge debate about people who say. they're self-made or this term that. they've pulled themselves up with their. bootstraps and someone said you have to.

have boots first. >> Yeah. >> How about that? You had boots. >> Yeah. >> For you to pull straps. >> And by the way you can't pull this great. you can't pull yourself up by your. boots. Have you tried? Try try and lift. yourself up by your bootstraps. See what. happens. It is impossible. >> You on the other hand, >> it is impossible. >> Pussing boots. That's there. There there. there he did it. [laughter]. >> You know, you know, actually I like that. Eugene. No, I like that Eugene brought. that up because I I think to what to. what that man said to you in your. writing, I feel like I have failed the. system.

[snorts]. >> You you tackle this in a in a in a. beautiful and poignant way. You make us. see a generation of men now. >> who who have been framed as just like. losers, basement dwellers, angry at. society for no reason. Yeah. But when. you when you break it down, you go, >> what else could you be if this if you. are failing. >> and the system's telling you that you. are failing because it's your fault? What would you be if not angry and. completely because you're disillusioned?

You know what I mean? >> Yeah. I mean I think I think the. manosphere has many causes but I think. the sort of economic um disfigurations. are one one one really core element. particularly how men have suffered in. the last 20 years economically right and. and you know one of the fastest growing. demographics in the US is female. breadwinners um you know young women. young G&Z women in in major cities. across the US are out earning young men.

you We know they're outperforming um men. at university in education. And. it's really interesting. We did some. data asking people, do you think we live. in an inheritocracy? >> Yeah. And the gender breakdown was so. revealing because men were particularly. affluent men that were receiving. the help from um the bank of mom and dad.

>> were most likely to say yes we. absolutely do. >> but least likely to admit it. >> Oh wow. >> Publicly. >> Publicly. Yes. Yes. >> Oh wow. So this so that so there's this. sort of weird sort of scenario that. women are much more likely to say I got. help from my parents than men. >> Mhm. >> Men are much more likely to lean on a. kind of self-made narrative. >> however you know sort of airbrushed. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And and I think it pierces at the heart. of this perception of what masculinity. is all about which is you are the bread. winner. You bring home the bacon. You. create the financial security. >> that enable women to do what they need. to do and you know and breed breed. breed. You know that we are still so far. from that being you know countered in. society. It's so pervasive. [clears throat]. >> and you know I remember when I you know. my husband and I we've we've I call us.

we have a seessaw marriage. At one point. he was earning more and then another. point I was earning more and then you. know and so I've been a bread winner and. it's it's it's really interesting how. people reacted to it. >> What what did you notice? [sighs and gasps]. >> You know um you're carrying a lot you. know there's notion of yeah you're. carrying the children you're carrying. the domestic burdens but you're also. carrying the financial burdens. You know. >> okay let's just box your husband as not.

performing you know. Wow. >> The assumptions made. Well, the reality. was was that he was doing most of the. child care. Um, and it wasn't childare. cuz it's his kids. He was doing most of. the most of the he was [laughter] being. >> I think you spend too much time with us. now. >> I know you corrupted me. Oh my god. But. that you know he was doing he was he was. doing everything that you know doing his. bit. >> A traditional hand. He was being a. partner. Yes. >> Right. >> He was being a partner. But it's. incredible how how we still after 40.

years of feminism. >> unable to accept that in society. >> Yes. And that's what we talk about all. the time as we go. It's not about us defining. I mean. society will always shift these roles. and they'll gradually move here and. there. Some people would argue some. traits are masculine, some are feminine, but you as a person may contain more. regardless of your gender. You may be. more masculine in some things and more. feminine as they've been defined. Yes. Put that aside for a second. We take for.

granted what it does to a society when. the stories we're telling people don't. match up with the realities. >> Right. >> So to your point exactly, if we're. telling young men these stories, then there's no reprieve in their minds. They're going, I suck. I fail. I this. I. this. And then someone pops in in the. manosphere and goes like, hey, hey, hey, before you judge yourself, let me give. you someone else to judge. let me give. you someone else to hate. Let me give. you something else to be angry at. >> And that's a powerful outlet because.

then you go deep down I think it's me, but they've said, "It's not me. It's. these things." But they don't point you. to the thing that it is. And then to. your point with women, it's the it's the. the exact opposite. They go, >> "I mean, he can't pay your rent, and I. mean, is he going to support you and. your family? And is he going to I mean, you got to be with a high value man, and. you failed." And you hear people using. these terms as if human beings are only. defined by their economic value. And I. know people are all experiencing the. pressure of the environment we're in. >> But we're also not able to be honest.

about it because the thing itself isn't. honest. >> But but I mean to to to just add a. counterargument. Yeah. Go is if you look. at all the data, women want high value. men. Like the whole marry a guy in. finance phenomenon is a consequence of. of an economy where it used to be you. could survive on a male breadwinner. salary. Now you need two salaries. completely two salaries. So you actually. need more than ever you know men to step. up and to provide particularly if the.

woman wants children. And obviously we. are talking about heterosexual um. normative relationships here. There. there is there is a lot of um variance. and and dynamics here. Of course there. are and difference but it is it is quite. telling that women are very economically. driven when looking for. >> this is no I don't think it's a counter. I think it's exactly what I'm saying. maybe I wasn't clear enough that's. exactly what I mean. >> right. >> and I'm saying so okay I'll you know. there's a story that always sticks with. me when I think when I read you know. when I'm reading economics and I'm.

trying to understand the world. >> um when I when I went on tour and I did. shows in India one of the biggest things. that strikes you in India is how close. the wealth inequality gap is. Now I come. from South Africa. We we have one of the. highest genie coefficients in that. >> the gap between the rich and the poor is. [clears throat] one of the widest in the. world and it's ever expanding. Right? >> But because of the legacy of apartheite, they've done a good job of obscuring it. >> You go to Cape Town, they've built walls. that hide it from you when you drive.

from the airport till you get to the. mansions. you know, you you you're in. the city in Johannesburg, you can avoid. it on the highways and you can get you. can get to where you need to get to. >> with minimal disturbance to your. emotional well-being in terms of seeing. how far you may or may not be from. somebody else, right? >> America does it as well and it's done it. for years. Different parts of the world. have it in different ways. >> and that's where the whole like you come. from the suburbs or from the that's sort. of what it was in India. It's crazy how.

and I I haven't been everywhere so. please don't get me wrong. This is not a. blanket statement, but where I went, >> you'd be shocked at how one minute you'd. be driving through, as they call them, the slums of India, >> and the next thing you know, there'd be. a mega mansion that is one of the most. beautiful buildings you've ever seen in. your life. >> That close. >> Close. I I mean literally, not. figuratively. Not Not, you know, when. people go stones throw away. Literally a. stones throw. Right. >> And I'm I'm with the taxi driver in the. car and I said, "Whose house is that?". And he said, "That's Mr. Amani's house.".

I was like, "Oh, Mr. and he's like the. Amani family and they've done and it's m. and I look it up and I'm like wow this. building cost a few billion dollars or. something it's one family now I. immediately apply my thinking I'm like. oh you must feel terrible and this man. said something fascinating he said no. it's amazing I said good for them they. make India proud look at what they've. done it's great to see them they're. building a name all over the world we. are all proud of the Amanis and I was. like huh and I said but like how does it. feel for you though and he said no I.

come from a different family and he said. for for me and my family he said like. for my cost we we're not going to get. there but I'm just working hard to get. to the next place. >> and now maybe in like a um you know in a. in a way that I shouldn't have pied him. but then I realized he didn't pity. himself. >> because he was working in my opinion. with a more honest reflection of what. his situation was. >> he was like oh no no no I never thought. that I'm going to get there. >> because of my family lineage so my goal.

is just to keep growing this thing, but. that's not our path. >> And he had a piece to him that I think. many people have been robbed of in the. world. Again, I'm not saying people. should or shouldn't be in a downtrodden. position. I'm not saying that. >> Yeah. >> But I went, what would happen if. somebody could say, "Yeah, I'm living in. my mom's basement and I'm a 24y old guy, >> but my family didn't have much of an. inheritance and the system has let me. down and because I didn't have these. things, I can't go. But I I don't have. the shame anymore because I understand. that I'm in it.

>> It's not in me. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> And you're so you so hit a brilliant. point which is it's all about. expectation. Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo. Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Gaat. You know the. >> Oh, of course. Yes. Yeah. Brilliant. He. has this whole theory about happiness. and it's all based around expectation. Yes. Whether they're met or unmet or. surpassed. >> and and you know the guy that wrote to. me and said the system has failed me. >> had higher expectations. He's. experienced a downward social mobility.

>> Yes. >> And he had high expectations because he. watched what had happened to potentially. his peers. Mhm. >> And ultimately potentially even what. would happen to his parents. >> Yeah. >> And so his expectations were a degree. would get me this. >> I would have access to a house. I would. have a certain sort of measure of. success in this system. >> And it's those Yeah. unmet expectations. that you didn't,

>> you know. >> Yeah. It's the story that they're. telling you. >> Yeah. >> Over. And there there was a book that I. read that changed the way I saw it even. in sports. They were like, you know, people talk about, oh, what's the best. way to get into the NBA and what's the. best way? Well, you know, it's hard work. and training, you got to do this, you. got. And they're like, you know what? One of the best ways to get into the NBA. or into the Premier League or into any. of the top sports league in the world, you know what one of the best ways is? >> No. >> Have parents who are athletes. >> Have a father or a mother who played.

sport at the highest levels, you have a. better chance of getting into that sport. at the highest levels. >> because to what you said earlier, even. beyond access, which they can very big. give you, >> just the physical inheritance that. they've given you. >> Yeah. Genetic. >> Yeah. Like we we take this for granted. So people will tell you all these work. hard and I worked harder. Yeah, you did. I'm not saying you didn't. But did your. dad play basketball at a high level? Yes. And did your Oh, wow. Look at that. Both parents played basketball at a high.

level and you're now in the NBA. Don't go anywhere cuz we got more what. now after [music] this. [music] You know what I think a lot of. people are not telling about the story. of inheritance is how every measurable. inheritance now was at some point a. humble beginning like your grandfather. winning. >> he didn't win a mansion. >> but that house became a legacy for your.

family and I think now for our. generation because of like you said. expectations that we put on ourselves. unmet ones we're also adding what. society we sort of think is expecting. from us depending on who we are what we. are what we've studied and what we look. based on also what we see on social. media as well. >> There's some people who won't buy a. one-bedroom flat. >> because they think to themselves, I'm a. surgeon. Why would I live in a. one-bedroom flat? But years and years. ago, someone bought that one-bedroom. flat and bought another one, another. another one, and now years later, the. expectation of of also I think it's I.

I'm yet to read the book, but I hope. there is a part that speaks to how we. can there was a quote that I read. somewhere that said poverty is a disease. of pride because it stops you from. asking for help. It stops you from ask. from starting small and it also stops. you from getting paid small so you can. build on something else. M. >> so once you cure that I think a lot of. things will be will be solved you know. expectations met and also just knowing. that starting small is something that. you can use to build a legacy for your. family. >> and I do think if you look at like.

people in their 20ies you know I'm in my. 40s I look at them and I'm like. [laughter]. >> you are in your what. >> 40s I'm here midlife. >> you look at 40s [laughter]. >> yeah look tell you what [snorts]. >> sorry I couldn't help this. >> no but you look at Gen Z right they're. in their 20s And they are they are. becoming like financially educated, investing however randomly in certain. things like. >> they are fully aware that you cannot.

live by salary alone. That dream has. died. >> And they are fully aware of how exposed. they are to AI. They are fully aware. that a college degree isn't the access. and the entry point to opportunity that. it was 20 years ago. They're so much. savvier. Whereas I think millennials are. still I call them the inbetweeners. They're like caught between two. centuries, right? They're still sort of. like hankering after the the 20th. century dream. >> and sort of trying to sort of navigate.

the 21st century. And whereas true 21st. century kids that have also grown up. with, you know, a smartphone in their. pocket since they were 13, you know, social media that yes, creates. comparison, the thief of joy, but also. creates aspiration. >> Yeah. M. >> you know [clears throat] and and you're. not just defined by your immediate. circle or your immediate community. You're on your phone seeing what's. possible. >> right. >> and you know. >> but unfortunately that possibility might. be out of reach. >> Yes. But it also it does widen your.

world in a way that we did not have. >> completely completely I agree with that. >> you know and and it it makes you think I. think. >> definitely. >> differently and bigger and I and I think. it it maybe is is diluting for that. generation the narrative. of of this is. the path to success, become a lawyer, you know, [laughter]. >> how how do you how do you think it. adversely affects women like. specifically cuz you know we we we will. now especially talk about like young men.

and I think one of the reasons I do it. is because I go when young men are angry. >> that's when [ __ ] pops off. Do you know. what I mean? like revolutions and and. militias and rebel groups. There's. groups of men who have had no like ISIS. was one of the best examples, right? The. US goes into Afghanistan and that whole. region there's a power vacuum. >> It's all young men who now have no jobs. They've lost families. They have no. hope. >> And because of that, someone corrals.

them all up and says, "We'll give you. money. We'll give you women. And we'll. give you purpose. >> Ride with us." And all of a sudden you. have this mini army that takes years to. now counteract. And the only way people. counteract it is by killing it as. opposed to going back to its source. And. so. >> it's easy to focus on that because it's. almost more threatening. >> But when we look at women, it almost. feels like on an emotional level it's. it's destabilizing. It almost feels like. inheritocy at times butts up against. some of the freedoms that feminism.

promised, right? like choosing when to. have your child, choosing how many. children to have. >> Some of these become luxuries that you. inherit. >> because you did or didn't have parents. that could give it to you. Mhm. >> I know it's it's ironic really because. feminism. certainly in in the in the US in the 70s. was about freeing the woman from the. family, you know, and enabling and the. kitchen sink and you know, kind of, you. know, widening opportunities and access.

for women. [snorts] And if you look at. millennial women, they're. and I'll tell it through one of the. stories I I I demonstrate in the book. I. spoke [clears throat] to to one girl who. was she was she had a joint bank account. with her mother and not one with her. partner. She wasn't married to him but. they'd been together over 15 years. Right? So her financial ties were with. her mother and they had property.

together and they'd you know sort of you. know very much sort of open dialogue and. relationship with money with her mother. But she was very clear that she wanted. complete separate finances from her from. the partner. >> And the reason I tell that sort of um. that story and and and her as an. illustration is that for the daughters. of the feminist pioneers, the millennial. women, they found greater financial. security in the bank of mom and dad.

>> than a male partner. Right. Right. Not. always true. I generalize hugely here. and there's really important new nuance, >> but I think one of the frustrations I. see with a lot of my female friends and. a lot of of the of the narrative around. motherhood in particular is. what were all those feminist baby boomer. women doing when they were raising their. sons? Like where [laughter]. why don't they know how to change a. nappy? Why don't they know how to Why. don't and and actually the truth is.

millennial dads are changing more. nappies, pushing more pramms, doing more. school runs than any other generation of. dads before them. It's not cuz they love. their children more than any other. generation of fathers before them. >> It's because the economics of marriage. have fundamentally changed. Women have. stepped up. >> in the economic contribution to the. household because they've had to, but. also because they wanted to, right? >> But men have had to step up on the care. front. And I see it. I see modern. masculinity in a really positive sense. being redefined around fatherhood. Yeah.

>> Right. The public demonstration of the. father, you know, father of girls, you. know, father, right? It's a really. positive. >> sort of narrative around fatherhood. I. see less positivity and public. demonstration around elder care. >> and looking after. >> aging parents and people in our families. because we're living in an aging. society, right? We have fewer and fewer. children. We have we have a a ticking. time bomb of an aging society and within. families who historically has always.

done the elder care looking after the. parents. We know predominantly women. So. just brilliant that fathers have stepped. up looking after kids. Now we need sons. to change as many catheterss as they're. changing nappies for their babies. because. >> balanced out on the other side. Well, because all of those hardearned, you know, career opportunities that. millennial women have done and succeeded. in will be seriously under threat as. their parents age and they have to look. after their parents.

>> Yeah. It's it's um. it's also one of those one of those. problems that has so many different. prongs sticking out of it that you. realize you have to just push push each. one into to finally get to a solution. So, one of them to what you're saying is. the system. If people are ashamed to live in a. multigenerational family, they're less. likely to do that. >> I don't know about you, but I've. definitely heard people say, "Ah, yeah, I got to look after my grand." There's. like a little There isn't, you know what. I mean? To your point, there isn't a.

chest out. There isn't somebody like, "Oh, no. I look after my grandmother.". >> There's elder care influences. There's. mom influences. There's no elder care. influences. >> It's not it's not seen as a positive. And then to the second side of it, >> it's what you said, >> populations are declining. generations are getting older, but we. don't seem to ask in my opinion like a. core question. Everyone goes like birth. rates are declining and then I see all. these things that like could it be. microlastics? It could be the micropl.

and I'm like all right maybe it is. I'm. not a biologist. I don't know maybe it. is. I do find it interesting though that. birth rates are not declining everywhere. in the world at the same like in the. same way at the same clip. >> Mhm. You know, if you look at where. capitalism has gone and how it's gone. and how people live more importantly, [clears throat]. >> it's interesting that in poorer places. where people are living like a more um. you know like sustenance life. >> Mhm. >> The their birth rate is pretty high. still. They you know what I mean? They're still having the kids. They're.

still growing population. They're still. >> declining at quite a rapid rate. >> but not but not even close. Well, I'm. saying like if we account for the mic. let's say we account I'm not even saying. it's microplastics. But let's say we. account for that the decline across the. globe. Africa is still growing at a rate. that many places in the world aren't. And I'm not saying that it is or isn't. I just wonder. >> Mhm. >> how much or how less likely you are to. have kids in a world where you go, I do. not have the resources to have these.

kids. Like when are you going to have. your kids? How many conversations have. we had with people who have frozen their. eggs. >> but haven't had the kids? >> And you go like, "But why aren't you. having the kids?" They're like, "Well, I. can't afford them right now, >> but I know that I want the kids in the. future. So, I'm going to freeze my eggs. now so that I can have the kids when I. have the money to have the kids and when. I have the man who can help me afford to. have the kids." And it all if you look. at how many times the word afford comes. into the equation, >> you realize we've warped. >> part of what I what I believe is a very.

natural thing and that is you just have. kids because you are having sex. >> Yeah. And we're not having frozen. babies. >> No, they won't be frozen. >> Oh, they themselves. >> Yeah, they themselves won't you thaw. them. >> But I mean I think I think the. conversation around fertility as as as a. mother who had babies late. I was a. geriatric. um mother, right? That's official. But. anything medical term is like a young. What is the age for geriatric? >> I think it's 36. >> It's wild that they use geriatric for. that. >> Ger. So I was I was a geriatric mother.

You're talking to a geriatric mother. here. And. >> thank you for your service. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> I breed for the world so much. Um but. women historically have never had. control over their fertility. And in. some places and in different obviously. you know different conversations even in. this country around controlling one's um. fertility and birth rights. It's a really sensitive and complex.

issue that deserves. >> attention and nuance because you're. absolutely right. The economic. um constraints and and burdens of having. children now are at completely at odds. with perhaps what our grandfathers and. grandmothers and certainly our. great-grandfathers having children used. to be a net benefit because they used to. earn money and come back and give it and. spread it to the family. Right. Having. as many children actually you'd create. this sort of mini economic empire.

>> You're creating your inheritance. >> Right. Oh wow. >> Yeah. Now, really since the 1980s. when children started to live at home. longer, now parenting is a 30-year financial. commitment. >> with the most expensive years after 18, right? >> And that's how we we you think about the. language we use around parenting. We. invest in our children. It's an economic. >> commitment here, right? >> So, so the way that parenting has gone. is women are having fewer children.

They're having them closer together. That's really important. and they're. having them much later in life. And that. is a product to a large degree of. choice, right? Because as soon as you. start educating women to tertiary level, the birth rate declines massively and. they have children later. >> It's about choice, but it's also about. economic burdens and the complexities of. trying to find a partner. And I use. genderneutral terms there deliberately, right? Because because families come in.

many forms. And also you're seeing. increasing number of women I have many. friends that are chosen single mothers. >> that are choosing to. make a child on you know on their own. steam. >> So the the model of what a family looks. like the model of how women procreate. looks like just all looks very. different. But to speak to the political. point which I think is mentioned too. often too casually which is we you know. child care is too expensive you know. health care is too expensive education.

too expensive the economics of. parenthood has become more expensive. >> but people had a lot more children in a. lot tougher economic. >> time wars exactly it's not economics. just economics nor is it state support. either because if you look at. Scandinavia for example. >> they've got some of the lowest birth. rates they've got some of they got some. of the best provisions in terms of. paternity leave, child care, but the. lowest birth rates as well. So, [snorts]. what we're really talking about here, which is something that no one really, I.

think, fully addresses, which is we've. given women better options. >> This is about individualism and choice. No. >> Okay. Just making sure it from your. tone, I was like, damn, this is going to. be a spicy take. >> We've given women TOO MANY OPTIONS. TIME. TO TAKE THEM AWAY. >> WOMEN OPTIONS. NO, THAT'S WHAT I WAS. LIKE, DAMN, I WAS FROZEN. [laughter]. >> NO, BUT WHEN women. >> I want to be a glitch. I was not here. [laughter] WOMEN'S RIGHTS WERE BEING. TAKEN AWAY. >> THE POINT IS is that when women are.

given the choice, having 10 children is. not what they do with their life, right? >> Oh, wow. >> So, you know, and I think there's that. we have to also have a genuine. conversation, a much more positive one. about when you have kids, >> it's all about sacrifice. It's a. thankless task. child, >> they don't thank you. They The whole. point of having a child is, you know, you build it within you and you let it. go. You literally push it out of you and. you spend the next 20 years trying to. push it out into society hopefully so.

they can have enough resilience and. independence and savviness. >> to not you push them out of the pride. >> You literally. >> and that's you know I think it's really. interesting if you look at how. inheritance operates in nature is you. know there is that sort of. let's push the push the kids out of the. pride. But actually there are other. examples in nature where you know. inheritance material inheritance. actually is a fact of life. So. woodpeckers inherit trees.

>> No. >> ants inherit mounds. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Squirrels. >> inherit the nuts. >> Yes. >> These nuts. >> Sorry. I couldn't help I couldn't help. it. Eugene, I apologize that you were. caught in the crossfire. I don't know. I. don't. >> I apologize that you were caught in the. crossfire. I'm so sorry for this. I am. >> My friend is here and I I can't let him. get away with that. [laughter] I can't. let him get away with that. I apologize. I apologize. You have you have inherited. our friendship and I apologize for that. [laughter].

But that's an interesting way to think. of it. It's like, so which one do you. think is most natural for us as humans. then? If if different animals have. different inheritances, what's most. natural for humans? Is there is there. any literature on this. >> in an in an economy that feels fragile? Let's keep them close. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. >> When it feels danger, when it feels full. of danger, full of uncertainty, fragile. existence, you keep your babies close, >> you know. And that's why you have the. situation.

where one in four Gen Zers take their. parents to job interviews. >> One in four Gen Zers take their parents. to job interviews. >> for support. >> Wow. >> For support or to get them a job. Maybe. the parents are, you know, actually. going and that the kids are having to. tag along. But you're seeing a process. of of what I call extended adolescence. It used to be you became an adult, uh, you know, 18, then it was 21. Now it's more like 30. >> So what happens in the future? Because,

you know, we we got all these promises. I would see all these news headlines and. I would see all these stories where. they'd go, "Millennials will be the. greatest inheritance generation of a. lifetime. There will be trillions of. dollars that because of what the parents. have earned they will. Is is that still. true? Is is there going to be this. massive boon that that everyone. experiences if they are the children of. the boomers? >> I mean inheritance is not a guarantee, right? I mean damn. >> the you've got the contingency issue. around elder care and and that being.

social care being incredibly expensive. All the inheritance could be wiped out. >> You've got um as I said the complication. around blended families. You've got the. fact that most millennials will inherit. in their 60s. So it ain't going to them. It's probably going to go to their kids. So the intergenerational unfairness. trickles down the generations I suspect. is how it will roll. >> because. >> and it will happen differently in. different countries. I mean in the UK. for example, the tax system encourages.

you to give early while you're still. alive. Okay? >> Don't don't wait until death like you'll. lose it to the tax man. >> 40%. So give it away in life. In the US. it is slightly different and Trump's. amended it so that you you more people. in the US give at the point of death. which means that millennials will really. inherit it a lot later and so it may. fund their retirement because they're. perhaps not. >> putting enough into their pensions that. >> so now it might skip a generation where. where it was I guess at some point meant. to be like the next generation.

>> Yeah. But I mean these things are so. fraught with uncertainty. Who knows what. governments do? Who knows policies will. change? You know, the affordability of. various things in our lives will change. >> That's what I think is really important. What you were saying about earlier is. the script is so unclear for the 21st. century. >> It really is. the education, the jobs, the path, the family unit, the the the. the you know the the the various sort of. expectations we had feel so.

sort of. not abandoned but just like irrelevant. >> H it feels like there's three distinct. conversations that are happening at the. same time then. So you have the the Gen. Z who are as you said on on the cusp of. this new era technology, AI, social just. a whole new world that hasn't even been. defined yet and keeps changing every. day. >> You have the boomer generation that is. nearing the end of their journey, but no.

one knows where their wealth will go, when it goes, if it goes. >> Yeah. >> And then you have the millennials, the. sandwich generation who who are stuck in. between. Is there a way that each group. should. >> there's one more generation? So in. between the so millennials, >> it's worth saying Gen Z are those born. from and these are arbitrary date ranges. but really 1990 um 1996 to about 2010. Okay, that's Gen Z. After that is Gen. Alpha. Okay,

>> and before that is millennials 1981 to. 1996. >> Before that is Gen X. No one really. talks about them because they're. actually there's not as many of them, but that's those born from from 1966 to. 1980. And what's interesting about them, so they are generally speaking the. parents of Gen Z. >> Okay. Boomers 1945 to 1965, the parents. depending on when the mother gave birth, the parents of millennials. Now, what's. interesting is boomers have a lot more.

money than Gen X. Gen X was the. generation that really suffered the most. during the financial crisis. That's the. gen that's we talk about millennials. suffering. Actually, they were too. young. It was the assets that that um. were vulnerable were those owned by Gen. X. >> That was Gen Xite. Okay. >> But in America, you now have Gen X's. trying to push their kids through. college, support them with everyday cost. of living bills, potentially help them. with a down payment on a house. They are. putting twice as much money into their.

kids than they are their retirement. >> They're hedging their bets on their. children. And they are not as rich as. the boomers potentially hedging their. bets on their kids. I like that. But. there is a sort of that forgotten. generation who are sort of entering. their 60s, you know, 70s now who are. actually quite vulnerable. >> So how how do we think of inheritance. then? You know, to go back to the. premise of the book, you know, an. inheritocy, we're always told that we we. aim to and we live in meritocracies. You. work hard and things will work out for.

you. And you know in the UK they got rid. of the monarchy so that everyone could. be equal and everyone could work their. their best and get their best. And in. America they said we have no monarchy. You just work your best and you will get. the best. And this message really for. the most part has permeated the globe. >> It's the story that everyone tells. Work. hard and you will be rewarded. >> We hear about oligarchies you know. We. we hear about, you know, straight up. monarchies and oppression system. But in.

an inheritocracy, how do you how do you think that we. should think about it, you know, because. as you said in the beginning, it's not. good or bad. You're always going to. inherit something. So, how do we then. think about it in a way that will help. as many people as possible because then. society as a whole moves forward? >> That's such a great question, which I. think is beyond me, but I I'll try. I. think the most important thing is to be. open about it.

>> Um, you know, generally speaking, in a. theotocracy and an autocracy and a. meritocracy and a democracy, they're. quite open about what the system is. >> They really are. >> In an inheritocy, we need to place where. they're not open is a kleptocracy. >> Kleptocracy. >> cuz that one you have to call the police. inquisition. Anyway, >> no, no, no. [laughter]. I think um being open about it but then. I was I was I think one of the major.

failures of the book is that I don't. offer any solution. There's no like what. do we do with this information? Do we do. we do we all become lawyers? Do we all. like oh my god um you know just build. generational wealth? Do we. >> tax everything and everyone? Do we you. know kill aspiration in the process? like what is it that we need to do? And the one conversation I had with an. economist in the UK um I think came.

to the right sort of conclusion. which is you have to make you have to. you don't want to kill inheritance. You. don't want to kill that aspiration of. building generational wealth. It's a. really positive thing and it's a huge. drive for a lot of people. But you want. to make it matter less. >> You want to build I love that a system. that makes inheritance matter less. So. what levers do you need to pull in the. economy?

>> What you know how does the education. system need to change? >> How do you need to make nepotism not be. the sort of you know. key mechanism of of access to power? >> What is it that needs to be done as. individuals? because there's always you. know a point about individual. responsibility in this as communities as. professions. >> you know but also um in terms of. governance and government. >> you know what I'm realizing now as I.

speak to you is that there are so many. ways that people have acquired a lot of. wealth that they've passed down and it. speaks to a point that you raised. earlier that some people are ashamed to. say where their wealth comes from. >> and I think there should be a book about. how people have gotten their wealth in. the first place you You know in South. Africa obviously we have our history in. many countries they have sugar cane. plantation owners cotton farm owners. slave laborers and now we're seeing. what's happening in Nepal with. kleptocracy and people stealing just. generally from the public person their. children having a great time in Soho so.

I think there's a lot to be said about. what inheritance is and what wealth is. but I think what the previous. generations from us did is what we could. learn is inherit their values because. those values are the ones that generated. the wealth that we generally are. enjoying. doing now, you know, and how. to use money, what family is, what. investments to make, and how to keep the. family structure together. And I think, shame, they tried very hard to try and. do that, but what they gave in education. took less and gave them less. grandchildren. >> It's there's a there's an old um sort of.

saying that that that the first. generation mel makes it, >> the second generation sustains it, and. the third squanders it. Yeah. And it's. really interesting to um when I was. writing the book, the difference. um I discovered talking to a firstgen. >> wealth per someone that had made the. money. >> Yeah. >> And someone that had inherited the money. >> like literally and was then passing it. on, >> right? So, so I if you've been an heir. and then you will be a um you know um.

someone that shares their wealth, you. have a greater understanding of that. responsibility of wealth, >> but potentially the shame that comes. with that wealth, but also none of the. drive that was with the builder of the. wealth. >> Oh wow. >> And it goes back to just full circle. moment on the um Nepo babies. >> Yes. Because actually there is huge. burden of inheriting wealth.

>> and really difficult weight to carry if. you're. >> you know not just carrying the family. business or potentially um the family. wealth the yeah you know sons of. footballers that's a really heavy. >> you know legacy to to pass forward. >> and you can also carry the family shame. and guilt. >> Yeah. Yeah. If we trace where the wealth. came from. >> Yeah. Huge. >> Oh, damn. Huge. Yeah. Don't do that. >> Yeah. >> Don't follow the money. >> Mhm. >> Never follow the money. [laughter].

>> Yeah. I don't I don't know. Do you have. a view on Nepo babies in general? >> I think I think it's I think it's really. interesting how we are living culturally. in an inheritocy, not just economically. So, dynasties have become huge. Whether. we're talking about the Kardashians, they were obviously the first, but you. know, Beyonce and Blue Ivy, whether. we're talking about the Beckhams, whether we're talking about Kennedy's. Yeah. There's always been political. dynasties, but I think you're like.

dynasties. Social social media creates the lineage. >> And actually, it's been around long. enough now that those babies are now. like mini adults. >> You're right. >> And like you're seeing them literally. grow up now and doing the work. Yeah. So. you're seeing the next gen. >> and actually there's huge economic. reward in being a family brand, >> right? >> And so I feel like I feel like in a way. the whole sort of like. >> phenomena of Nepo babies is partly. because of the sort of culture.

facilitating it and tech facilitating. it. But it's also because we can maybe. relate to them in a way that we maybe. don't admit because a lot of us are Nepo. babies to some degree or no other. >> You know that TV show Succession was. ostensibly about you know the. billionaire class with their quiet. luxury and their you know family. infighting about who was going to run. the family business. But actually maybe. we could relate to that more than we'd.

like to think or would have thought. because actually it was about. >> families and money. >> Yeah. >> Which have become more and more. prevalent. >> Yeah. Who gets the house, who gets the. car, who gets the land, who gets I mean. even small things like the the the. closet or the you know what I mean like. furniture. We take for granted how many. things are assigned value and like where. the inheritance goes. Even last names. are inheritances. >> Oh, yeah. That's very true, actually. >> Yeah, cuz it opens or closes doors in.

some cases. >> Never thought of it like that. >> Also, I love the fact that your mom. called you Trevor because there was no. association. >> Yeah. Yeah. My mom wanted me to. She. just wanted something unique and random. >> because of what Eugene is saying. >> Yeah. So my mom thought at a time when a. name bore it came with it especially. like in in South Africa but like your. name. >> was generally your African name was a. name that that meant something to the.

family and my mom felt like it was an. inheritance of an expectation. >> Yes. >> You know and so some you know like her. her name is which means the one who has. to give back and that's pretty much the. role she played in the family. >> you know she was the one who had to give. back. Um, and I think a lot of people. have these stories where they go like, "Oh, yeah, my name is that meaning." But. I laugh with her now and I go, "The. irony is it became that she gave me. Trevor because she's like, "What a. random crazy name that means nothing in. her world." And she's like, "I'll give. him this name because I don't want him.

to have the expectation. >> of being normal. >> of being normal and then look at my. life.". >> So, in a way, she still gave me the. thing without it's I was laughing with. her saying, "You can't avoid it. All you. can do is try and aim it in the. direction you wish for it to go.". >> Yeah. Because by doing that, I spent my. whole life being surrounded by kids who. were like, "Yeah, but what's your name. name?" Then I was like, "Trevor." Then. they're like, "Hey, man. No one's named. Trevor. What's your name name?" Then I. was like, "Trevor." They're like, "Hey, yo, you you're in a safe place. Tell us. your name.". >> Gabriel. [laughter].

>> No, really. And And so I I love that. Eugene said that. It's like even your. last name. >> can be an inheritance. But this is this. has been a great way to think about it. Like make a world. >> where the inheritance is less important. It'll always be there, >> but less important. That's why I love. football. Eugene, I'm trying to get him. into football. >> But, uh, do you know what? >> One of my favorite stories. >> Can I tell you? One of my favorite. stories. >> Did I say it right? >> Do you know what? [laughter and clears throat]. >> Yes. >> So, one of my one of my favorite stories.

is the story of Lionel Messi, >> right? Arguably the greatest footballer. to ever do it. >> When Messi was first scouted, he was. seen as a prodigious talent. Very early. on, scouts saw him and said, "This boy. has the potential to do things we've. never seen before." However, they all. noted in their scouting reports. that his body was going to hold him. back. They said, "He's too small. He's. just not strong enough. He's just not. big enough. We're worried." In fact, at. some stage in his life, Messi wasn't. growing. I think he had a it was like a.

growth deficiency that he was. experiencing. So, he wasn't growing at. the same rate as his peers. >> Didn't they also give him a nickname to. that effect as well? >> I I don't know, actually. Yeah, the the. flea. >> I wouldn't Oh, there you go. Yeah. >> Yeah, but in [clears throat] Spanish. >> There you go. And so. >> could have been. [laughter]. >> And so. >> don't take my word for it. Messi now goes on this journey, >> you know, he he struggles as this young. kid's super talented, >> but the game of football changes to your. point. >> And as Messi matures and he's like 15,

16, 17, the system that he's playing in. starts to value kicking the ball on the. ground more than kicking it up in the. air. M. >> and now being the tallest, biggest, strongest person doesn't define your. success on a football pitch. And all of. a sudden Messi has the opportunity to. become the greatest where if he came. around, >> we don't know 10 years earlier, 20 years. earlier, it might have just ended as you.

are not big enough to play football. M. >> and so in in that way I don't think they. planned it in that in such a beautiful. way but it is amazing to see what a. system can do if you change it so that. your inheritance is less important. >> more people can join the game. >> and right now we may be missing out on. some of the greatest talents of a. generation. >> because they haven't inherited the tools. that the system currently requires. >> and I feel like and as a mother and as. parents like I grapple with that all the.

time like what. what is going to be valuable when he's. out into the world. >> I'm pretty sure the educational system. education system that he's in is is not. necessarily nurturing those skills. >> No, almost no [snorts] way. >> And you can't really predict them. either. That's what I find is is. difficult. I mean, we know in the age of. AI. to be the most human you can be, full of. character, full of great communication. skills, full of humor, you know, it is.

going to be hugely valuable. We know the. definition of luxury is going to be. anything delivered by a human. >> Yeah, >> that is like a given. So, if you can be. the most human you can be, >> um, we know that's going to have some. currency, right? But beyond that, no. idea. No idea. And and and as a mother, I I feel that. in an age that where everything feels. quite fragile.

>> and your urge to create certainty and. and safety. >> is I've I've never felt. so inadequate. >> Wow. >> And and that just literally I came from. having a really deep conversation with. my husband about like what are we going. to do about schools? what what where you. know what's what's the right avenue. because what I did doesn't necessarily. work anymore. >> right I'll tell you something 17 years. in.

the biggest lesson is we as a parent you. look at the world and you look at your. child as interacting if they were an. animal you think of them as being in. this big bad jungle. >> meanwhile you don't realize that by what. you've given them what they've inherited. from you your life circumstances. >> they actually live in a game farm where. all the animals are curated and. controlled. >> and they interact with the world. according to how they behave. >> So the way they are and what they have. will determine in a big bad world who.

they interact with. >> So they'll never find themselves in the. wrong side of town because of how they. grew up automatically. That stops them. from going to the other end. So what you. must give to your kids more than. anything and kids are very slick because. they don't do what you tell them to do. [laughter]. >> They do what you do. >> Yeah. Yeah. So monkey see monkey do. situation with them. So they look at. your values more than anything else. How. you treat people, which car you like, which neighborhood you love, how often. you're on your phone. >> Do you watch the news or do you watch. magazine shows? Do you prefer walking or.

do you prefer driving? And you'll see. that as you get older and they get. older, they'll start emulating the life. that you've created. And if you're. certain enough that you've created a. life that you would be willing to pass. on to them, they'll definitely inherit. that. So all what we're giving now to. our children the guidelines. >> such high stakes such high pressure do. as I do. Yeah. It's it's it's I think. and like coming back to where we started. this conversation when I was with my. father in the last couple of weeks of. his life.

I wanted to soak up as so much of that. who he was, what he believed in his. values. He was such a unique character. I just wanted to to sort of envelop it. as much as I possibly could as he lay. there basically dying and and and. desperate to kind of carry it on. And. actually, that's why I went into therapy. because I knew I'd end up [ __ ] up my. kids trying to do that.

>> because the worst thing you can do as a. parent is try to sort of carry the. family legacy down because it's full of. expectation and quite often warped. values and and yeah, and actually. being free from my inheritance has been. what I've spent the last four years. doing. And writing that book was about. essentially working out. the journey my parents had had, the. journey I have had and putting that to.

bed so that my kid doesn't have that. inheritance. He can have much more. freedom. >> You're doing a good job. >> Thanks. I feel a bit emotional. >> I can't think of. >> You're doing a good job. >> Can't think of a better way to end the. conversation. >> This was amazing. Thank you. >> Thank you for Yeah. Yeah. I mean, wow. I. feel like we benefited more than we ever. thought of. >> Mhm. >> Um, can't wait to see if you do write. another book. I can't wait to see what. it'll be. No pressure right now. Don't. say anything at all. We'll leave it.

right here. >> Thank you, Eugene. >> Thank you so much, Eliza Philby. >> Thank you. >> I'm blessed that I inherited both of you. for this conversation. [laughter]. >> Great. Thank you. [music]. >> You're amazing. >> Thank you. Thank you. That was such fun, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. >> That was really I learned so much. Wow, that was really cool. >> You are deep. >> and funny. >> Bless. Yeah, you're deep and funny. What a. great combination.

>> This episode is presented by Whole Foods. Market. Whole Foods Markets has. everything you need for the holidays. Whether you're a guest or hosting the. big dinner, Whole Foods Market has. convenience and costfriendly [music]. finds that'll delight everyone at your. table, plus great gift ideas, all of. which follow the Whole Foods [music]. Market's strict ingredient standards. Shop for everything you need at Whole. Foods Market, [music] your holiday. headquarters. Thank you so much for watching the.

episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. [music]. let them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, [music] maybe there's ideas that you. have, you can chat to us. We will read. through the comments and we'll get into. it. Either way, I appreciate you taking. the time. [music] Thank you for hanging. out with us on What Now. And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to. hear from you. [music] Till next time. Thank you.