Dr. Jessica Knurick: Is American Food Actually Poison? Debunking the MAHA Movement & Nutrition Myths

[music]. >> Wait, there's a there's a list of. ingredients, basic ingredients that. people always interact with, always have. in their homes that they might not be. sure if they're good or bad, including. myself. So, I'm going to do a quick fire. of maybe a few, then you tell me yay or. nay and why they yay, right? So, salt, is it a yay or nay? You need salt. Your. body needs salt to survive. It's too. much salt that's the problem, which is. probably going to be the my answer to. all of these. So, now there's a battle.

between Himalayan salt and just normal. salt. Which one is good, which one is. bad? They're they're both fine. Marketing. Yeah. Sugar, good or bad? Again, sugar, I mean there's sugar in. fruit and fruit is a wonderful food, right? So, um because you're also. getting all of those nutrients. And so, sugar is not necessarily bad, it's the. overconsumption of sugar that's bad. And. particularly like added sugar, like a. soda, right? Cuz you're just drinking. sugar with no nutrients at all. So, so. that's kind of what you want to stay. away from or limit um versus just.

thinking sugar itself is bad. White. sugar or brown sugar? Which one is the. best? >> They're the same. Oh, I always thought. brown sugar was way healthy. I thought. it was like brown rice. I would eat it. all the time and I'd be like, "Mom, look, I'm being healthy.". No. And then she'd throw carrots at my. head. >> [music]. >> This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. >> [music].

>> Dr. Jessica, wait, you know what's. funny? We were all debating how to say. the name. I thought it was Knoerig. And then someone else was like Noerig. >> Noerig. Noerig. Noerig. Noerig. Which. one is it? >> It's closer to the second one. It's. Noerig. Noerig. It is Noerig. Yeah. The. K is silent like knife. I don't like silent letters. I'm not. going to lie. I'm just going to put it. out there. Yeah, it's I'm not I'm Your. name can be your name. I just don't. think this is cool for people. because it's like your name is like a.

trap. It's a made-up name. Imagine if I was. like, "I'm Trevor Noah." And then. they're like, "N O, no, K N O A H." I. mean, the H is kind of silent, isn't it? The Noah? Noah. You caught me. >> [laughter]. >> You have a silent letter, too. >> I do. Eugene Khoza. No, you. Cuz you have to say the H properly. K-nife. Like knife. Knife. No, no, I'm I'm just. thinking about I've never really thought. that the K in knife was was silent.

>> It is silent. K-nife. I like k-nife. There's a lot of silent Ks. I like the. k-nife. Yeah, Ks are lazy letters in. words. >> lazy. That's true. They really are. They. don't pull their weight at all. K-nowledge. >> the start of a word, at least. Whenever. other letters are having a convention, then they're like, "Ah, here comes K. Oh, goodness.". Oh, shh. Hey, K. What are you You going to do your job. today? >> It's hey to you. >> [laughter]. >> Um. This is not why we brought you on. We're. not going [laughter] to just talk about.

letters and. I'm not a linguist. I have to tell you. But you are an expert, which I do. appreciate. Um. actually, like I know when you read it out, it's. it's, you know, it's like you've got a. PhD. nutrition as well. How would you. describe what you're an expert in? Like. what do you do? What are your. qualifications? I have a PhD in. nutrition science, but my research focus. was really in chronic disease. prevention. So, >> [clears throat]. >> looking at like all of the different. areas that could potentially prevent. chronic disease. And and mainly. lifestyle-related chronic disease, like.

like type 2 diabetes or cardiovascular. disease, like cardiometabolic disease. Okay, so help us break down the. difference between lifestyle chronic. diseases versus what is like a. non-lifestyle chronic disease? Yeah, I. mean, lifestyle-related are just things. that we know we have pretty good. evidence that like lifestyle-related. habits or or behaviors are actually. impacting your disease risk. >> Okay. >> So, there are some like chronic diseases. that that we don't necessarily know. that. We don't know like how much. behavior is or or like lifestyle is. actually impacting it. Like is there an.

exa- Give me an example just so I can. wrap my head around it. I'm trying to. cuz you said type 2 diabetes would be. more lifestyle. Yeah. >> Okay. And then type 1, I guess, no? Type. 1, no. Okay. So, that's just it might. just be you hereditary. Yeah, like an. autoimmune type type of response. Yeah, a lot of hereditary factors. Right. Yeah, a lot of genetics. Yeah, and so you you're the. >> Potentially other like environmental. factors. We just don't know as well. So, some we know for certain or there's a.

lot of research to suggest. >> Yeah, and it's also that like you could. potentially prevent the chronic disease. with lifestyle change. Got it. Yeah. I love the world that you're in. You know, we were chatting to the team. I. I feel like you are one of the bright. spots of social media, you know? And. Eugene and I were chatting about this. the other day and we were saying like it. was I'm not going to take credit for it. cuz you said it. >> Yeah, cuz Jessica. things that happen in our friendships. we're taking credit. [laughter]. You just claim it and need to have The.

more not going to take credit buckle up. because you said it. But Eugene said. something very valuable. He said, you know, we can always jump to try and like. vilify social media and we can look at. the bad and we can you know what I mean? But we also forget that there's a good. side of what's happening on social. media. There's also a good side of what. happens on TV, etc. And I was like, "Man, Eugene, I feel you, man. I feel. you." Glass half full. >> Yeah. Yeah, and I I feel like you're one. of those bright spots, an expert on. social media breaking down the most.

complicated topics. for everyone to fully understand. Thank. you. I appreciate that. >> No, we thank you. No, genuinely. We do. I love how you got into it as well. You know what I mean? It's like one. minute you you're the scientist who's. like really working on like the. What do they call it again? Um. You write the research papers and the. >> pad? No, no. You're not my friend. >> [laughter]. >> FRIENDS WOULD HELP.

NO, THE academia Yes, the academi- You. know what I mean? And then now now it. feels like you're you're you've bridged. the gap between the information and the. people who need the information. Maybe we start in that like why what. made you think, "You know what? I need. to get involved in getting this. information directly to people and not. just keeping it in the world of. expertise." Yeah, I've kind of I've kind. of talked about this before that um. for a very long time it was really. frowned upon for academics to go on. social media. So, it was. it was looked down upon. I first went to. social media actually back in 2016. My.

little brother was like, "You should get. on this new app." It was like Twitter's. like version of a video app. And so, I I. was teaching nutrition courses at at a. university at the time and I was like, "You know, I could teach on on this app. I'll just like whatever my lesson is. that day I'll go teach it on the app.". So, that's what I did and I like built. up this little following within a few. months. And I got a lot of pushback from. colleagues and from former colleagues. And you know, I was a brand new. tenure-track professor and I didn't want. to like put my career in jeopardy. And. so, when that happened and you know,

people were making fun of me like, "How's your vlog doing?". And and that was a really common. occurrence. It was just not a space that. like we were supposed to be in. And so, I got off and I was off for years and. years after that. And I I've talked to lots of other like. academics and even like medical doctors. and they all feel very similarly. Like. it just it was really frowned upon for. us to go to social media. And. unfortunately, that's where people go. for better or worse for their. information. And so, we lost a lot of. ground for many years not going to. spaces where people went for.

information. And so, that's what really initially. well, I guess the second time brought me. to social media was I was pregnant with. my son No, I was pregnant with my son in. 2019 and then my daughter in 2022. Between those times for whatever reason, I think it was after COVID. It was also. like. TikTok had come out. And I just started. seeing way more misinformation than I. had seen the first time around and like. getting targeted it with it in my. algorithm. And so, that's I was like, "Well, that's. not correct." And like I felt kind of.

obligations to protect that particular. demographic cuz like we're quite. vulnerable at that life stage when we. have young kids or we're pregnant. And. so, I just went on and started. correcting kind of like nutrition. misinformation in the pregnancy space. Um and then, you know, my my content has. shifted much more so. in the last year or so after last summer. when I saw a lot of, you know, this like. movement happening in public health and. nutrition. It just happened to be like. my exact area of focus the last 15. years. And so, I was able to really see.

the manipulation that was happening with. the narrative. And I decided to just. start correcting some of the. misinformation. And so, that's kind of. like what brought me to to here where I. am now. Sitting with you, Trevor. >> [laughter]. >> Do you guys need a moment? I've got places to be. >> Serendipitous. >> [laughter]. >> I I We always have this debate about. social media and we're thinking there's. a pushback in trying to find not even a. pushback, maybe a U-turn in how we. experience social media now. People are. trying to look for the bad, but seems.

like you found the good. What is What is. the good that is in social media right. now that people can go look for? Well, I think that there's a lot of good. content out there. You just have to like. sort through it and sift through it, right? So, like sifting through the bad. But I mean, it social media gives you. the opportunity to learn from people you. never really would have been able to. learn from before, right? Like if I have. like a question about some sort of like. beauty product, there's like so many. dermatologists out there or cosmetic. chemists just like creating content. about it. And I'm like, "This is. wonderful." So, I think that's a great. part about it. If you can find people.

giving credible information, I think it. can be a great source of information. How do you figure out who the credible. person is, though? Yeah. That That's. like the biggest obstacle for me is. you know, when I when when my friend. sent me your videos at first, I was. like, "This is amazing." And then the. the second thing I always have to tell. myself is I go like, "Is it amazing. because I want to believe it?" Mhm. Because I'm not an expert. So, how do I. know this is the right thing? And that. becomes [clears throat] like the. ultimate paradigm paradox, rather, online is. you get it from an expert, so you think. it's real, and then you go, "Wait, how.

do I know this person is an expert?" Cuz. everyone's a doctor. You know, the Dr. Oz, Dr. And then if Dr. Oz says it. >> Everyone's a doctor. Yeah, no, do you Do. you know what I mean? Like people just. doctor, everyone doctor doctor doctor. Mhm. Like how did you. Was there a moment when people were. like, "Who are you to say this?" I'm. sure people even say that to you now in. some way. I'm sure there's some people. who'll go like, "You're the scam. You're. the fake person." Yeah, people are. always going to do that, right? But. >> Just say that. >> [laughter]. >> What do you mean? Is this how you feel? No, I'm That's not how I feel.

I said that I'm sure. >> conviction in your eyes. Yeah, because I. channeled the comment section. >> Okay, maybe let me ask Jessica the. question. >> you ask the question. >> do you find that sometimes on social. media people look at you. and think. perhaps maybe you're the scam. >> [laughter]. >> That was actually That was actually. better. Yeah. That was better. >> I I think that yes, I think that if um, you know, if if I'm saying something. that like somebody doesn't like, it's. very easy to write somebody off just was. saying like, "You're a scam." or. whatever it is. Um, I think there's a. couple of things you can look for. This. is not foolproof, but like some things.

to like identify if somebody is giving. accurate information. Um, they they tend. to not be super sensational. So, which. plays really well into the algorithm, right? So, a lot of times in my space, if it's like nutrition misinformation, they'll scare you at the front of the. video, right? They'll scare you about. like if you're poisoning your children. or if you're. consuming toxins. Um, experts don't. generally talk like that. Like genuine. people who are trying to educate are not. going to scare you, they're going to. explain the nuance. So, if there's some. sort of inflammatory claim at the front,

that's kind of a red flag. And then. particularly then if they walk you. through kind of why why it's why that's. so toxic or whatever it is, and then try. to sell you something at the very end. Generally, those are some like good red. flags. I'm not saying that's all the. always the case. Um, but that's just. something to like keep in mind. Maybe. this is not Maybe this information, you. know, has an ulterior motive to try to. get me to purchase their whatever it is. at the end. Um, so I think kind of being. aware of that and then um, again, really. sensationalized information is generally. not how like experts talk.

>> That that feels like the crux of the RFK. Maha movement, Make America healthy. again, which by the way is a great. starting point. Who doesn't want America. to be healthy? No one. Oh, yeah, you. know what I'm saying? >> Well, well, some people don't. >> [laughter]. >> Well, You know what I mean? BUT IT'S. LIKE, YEAH, who doesn't want America to. be healthy? And then they go like, "Hey, you know, the the foods that we're. giving our kids and the. >> [snorts]. >> One of the things [clears throat] I. noticed about, you know, somebody like. RFK and the people around him is they're.

often really good at identifying real. problems. They're not lying about the problems. And so, they rope you in by saying, "Hey, kids are unhealthy and kids are. not getting good food in schools and, you know, the the medicine the. pharmaceutical industry might not have. your best" And everyone's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." And then to. your point, it flips. and then they sell you something. Yeah, I mean, it's great because, you. know, the the if you identify a correct. problem that like we all care about and. then you see somebody kind of countering. some of the uh like misinformation.

that's being spread, it's very easy for. those people to be like, "Why don't you. want America to be healthy?" People will. ask me that sometimes. And it's like, "Wait, no, I want America to be healthy. That's why I'm talking about this." Um, but I think it's like a brilliant kind. of like propaganda tool to do. >> ex- It's the snake oil salesman. handbook. That's what it is. You come. in, you identify the problem, and then. you go, "I immediately can cure this. thing with my snake oil." Yeah. Yeah. But I also feel like with nutrition it. gets very tricky sometimes. You know, growing up there were those ads that. would be like, "Open your cupboard right. now. Your food pantry. Open your fridge.

right now. Everything in there that you. see is wrong." Then they'll be like, "Fresh fresh fruits and vegetables. You. must eat this and eat that." But now. later on in life you get to hear so much. sugar in fruit, so much sugar in this, so much sugar in that. Don't eat Don't. drink fruit juice, it's not good for. you. It feels like the messages have. been What Yeah, what Wait, what Let's. Let's Actually, what is the truth around. that? >> [clears throat]. >> Fruit good, fruit bad? Fruit good. Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Well, fruit juice is different than.

fruit cuz fruit itself has a lot of. fiber in it. Um, fruit juice kind of. strips out the fiber. So, fruit juice. essentially has a lot of sugar and not a. lot of the fiber that that real fruit. has. And so, there those are differences. in terms of like their metabolic impact. on you. So, we don't have a problem. eating too much fruit in this country. Like there's we actually most of us. almost 90% of us don't meet fruit intake. guidelines. So, the benefits of eating. fruit, which is like all of the. micronutrients and polyphenols and. antioxidants and all of that and the.

fiber, um, far outweigh any problems. that we would see with like the the. sugar cuz the sugar's packaged within. the fruit. So, it's different than just. like drinking a soda, for example, which. doesn't have any of that. It's just the. sugar. I I can eat. half a watermelon. Yeah, in one sitting. Same. That's a lot. >> [laughter]. >> Okay. Does that give you GI issues? Yeah. Do you feel itchy somewhere cuz that's. GI? >> think that's GI. Oh. I'm glad we've got.

an expert here. I don't think GI has GI is like. gastrointestinal. >> [laughter]. >> No, it doesn't I've never had any. problems, actually. >> Okay. Um, like how much How How do you know if you. if you're having too much fruits? Mhm. I mean, I I don't know that there's like. a specific. symptom or sign. >> Yeah. you know, if you're having too. much fruit. And it again, like too much. is going to be very individual, right? So, we when we make recommendations like. two to three servings of fruit a day,

like those recommendations are just for. the general population, but somebody. someone else might be able to tolerate. much more than that versus somebody. else. >> else. Okay, so I'm exceptional. >> fruit tolerance. >> I have an exceptional exceptional fruit. tolerance. >> But here's my. >> Specifically watermelon. Yes, watermelon. I love watermelon. >> I mean, how can you not love watermelon? You know, the greatest scam ever. committed is eating it shirtless. No. Oh. But I'm I'm into it. >> try it. I've never thought of that. Spit's gone. Just you a sticky chest. Damn. Then shower straight after.

>> No, what I was going to shower after the. rest of the watermelon that's left. >> was going to say was like the craziest. thing the worst thing that ever happened. was like when I came to America and then. I discovered like here watermelon had. like racist connotations. Then I was like. What? They were like, "Oh, black people. love watermelon." And I was like, "Yeah.". They're like, "You love it." And I was. like, "Yeah.". And they're like, "No, but you love it.". Yes, yes, yes. And I was like, "Yeah.". >> Where does that come from? Ah, man, it's. all like Jessica, do you know? So, if [laughter] I if I No, if I. remember if I remember correctly, there. was like a whole.

there was a whole thing around it. Ryan, you'll you'll probably know this, but. like there was like a whole um. originally, it didn't have any racist. connotations or anything. But as black. people in America were choosing their. foods and were making them and were. enjoying them, then racist groups were. like, "We've got to find ways to poke. fun at them." And And so, they became. the stereotype. Fried chicken was one of. them. But here's the thing, yeah, black. people like fried chicken. But you know. who else likes fried chicken? >> White people. Yeah, thank you. Thank. you. You can't sustain an entire. industry just with the black people in.

America. I trusted you more when you. said white people. >> [laughter]. >> I was like Like she missed the criteria. And she's like, "Nutritionist.". loves fried chicken. [laughter] Yeah, thank you. You see, we have just There. we There we go. Oh, so there was this. Okay, I see I see what you mean. >> Yeah, and then they just made it a. thing. But there was also something. around like the farming of it. Like it. If I remember correctly, I I I mean, we'll we'll fact-check this, but I think. there was a story around like black. farmers post-slavery started growing a. lot of watermelon themselves. And it was.

one of the crops that were easiest to. grow. And so, they once they were like cuz. they had farming experience, unfortunately, and then they were like, "We're going to grow watermelon." And it. became like a crop that they were using. and they were making a lot of money. from. And then there were just racist. people who were like, "We got to shut. down this watermelon vibe." And so, to. make it distasteful to others, funny. enough, like sort of like a It was. another, you know, scammy thing before. social media. They went, "Well, you know. what watermelon means, you know, where. it comes from?" And then that's where. the stereotype sort of like gains its.

footing. I always feel like in any industry. there's always corporations getting. involved and trying to take people off. eating fruit and vegetables that are. fresh and going for the packaged foods. Do you find that in urban areas and in. cities and in first world countries. mostly fresh fruit and vegetable are. very expensive and unattainable for most. people? Yeah, they're certainly more expensive. relative to when we're looking at like. the caloric density, so how many. calories are actually in the food. They're certainly more expensive than. than these packaged foods. A lot of that. is because of the policies that we've.

enacted in this country. Um, and. particularly kind of like zoning laws. that have created these what we term. food deserts in a lot of the urban. areas. Um, where they literally don't. have access like easy access to a. grocery store with fresh fruits and. vegetables. So, so they're going to. dollar stores and they're going to gas. stations for a lot of their groceries. Um, and so, you know, what we might take. for granted going to a grocery store, like I live in the suburbs, there's like. five grocery stores within a a close. proximity. >> Yeah. A lot of people don't have that. and so, they have to take like, you.

know, multiple buses to get to a grocery. store and then they don't have have. transportation, so they're carrying all. of that home and it just the the. barriers of access are much higher. So, it's not even just cost, it's also just. accessibility of fresh fruits and. vegetables. Um, and so, what that what. happens then is people are heavily. reliant on pre-packaged foods, um, much. more so. So, they're they're more. accessible, they have longer shelf lives. cuz think fruits and vegetables go bad. after a few days and if you don't, you. know, prepare them, um, then you have to. go back and do that whole thing again to.

try to get access to them. Um, so yeah, that that is a big problem in our. country. I mean, millions of Americans. live in these food deserts, um, that. that don't have easy access to fresh. fruits and vegetables. >> Wow. How do How do we think of. ultra-processed foods? Because depending. on where you look, they'll tell you they. give you cancer. They're causing obesity. You shouldn't. eat any of them. Some people are like, "Oh, it's in moderation." Some people. are like no, that they're completely. fine. What's your view on ultra-processed. foods? And I know that's a broad term. Yeah, we should define it. Yeah, let's. let's define it. So, there's not a.

there's not a great definition for it, which is why HHS right now has kind of. an RFI out to like a request for. information to figure out like what is a. good definition for ultra-processed. foods cuz they do a lot of talking about. ultra-processed foods, but we don't have. a great definition. In the nutrition. science research, we use something. called the NOVA classification. NOVA. classification? >> Yeah, so it's it's out of Brazil, actually. And so they did like a first. effort years ago to define what. ultra-process means, and they defined it. as. foods that include an ingredient or a.

processing method that you don't have. access to. So, you can't replicate it in. your kitchen. So, the best way I can. explain it is with corn, so. unprocessed would be corn you pick from. the garden. Okay. >> Minimally processed would be like frozen. corn. Okay. So, they [clears throat]. just shuck the corn and put it in the. freezer. And then processed would be. canned corn. They. add a little sodium. So, just adding. sodium is considered processed like in. this classification. And then ultra-processed would be a. Dorito chip. So, you can't replicate a. Dorito chip in your kitchen. But there.

is corn. >> she's amazing. You see now? So, but if we use that definition, >> Mhm. right? Because. again, the definition is an ingredient. or processing method you don't have. access to. So, that really means any of. these additives that you know, that that. we use to like preserve food or change. the color of food or those types of. things. Um, there is so much variability in the. nutrient density of those foods. So, you. can have something like a Dorito chip. that doesn't have very much nutrient. density, right? It's not it's not great.

for you. But then you can also have. something like a protein powder would be. considered ultra-processed, but you're. getting a lot of protein in that protein. powder. >> Ah. >> Right? So, so the problem is that you. can't just go good or Exactly. And and. the people in charge right now are. wanting to go good or bad and and kind. of like demonizing the previous. administration for not like taking a. hard stance on ultra-processed foods, but this is the reason. When you look at. the science, there is there's like. nutrient dense ultra-processed foods and. they're more accessible. And so if. someone can devise a healthful diet that.

includes a lot of ultra-processed foods, but that it can still be a health. promoting diet for those people who. don't have access to fresh fruits and. vegetables, for example, then we can't. demonize those foods, right? That we. have to identify that oh those can. actually be health promoting. And so. there's we still need to do a lot more. research in this area. And they they, you know, um. they've been doing some of that research. at the NIH looking at ultra-processed. foods. Um, so it's very it's a very. nuanced kind of like ecosystem there. But but at the end of the day, low. nutrient ultra-processed foods, these.

prepackaged foods, there's pretty good evidence that. they're that they're negatively. impacting our health. How do how do we figure this out? Is there like a a simple trick that we. can use. when we out there buying food? You know, so let's use Doritos as an example. Someone grabs a bag of Doritos. >> I did. I wasn't going to say who. Someone grabs. a bag of Doritos, right? They haven't. eaten that morning. I didn't. I wasn't. going to name any names. And then they. start nibbling away. And you can see. that this person is hungry.

And they just like, you know, I just. need like a few little nibbles of a. thing, nibbles of a thing. And then they eat it. And then. afterwards, they still don't really feel like. they've eaten anything. >> And their stomach isn't full at all. And they are going, I still need to eat. something. After the podcast, yeah. And. because I feel like I need to eat. something, it means that that wasn't like. necessarily bad for me or didn't Do you. Do you get what I'm saying? How do Like. what what is that gap that we that we. cuz we we all experience it. Someone. goes like oh I still have space.

So, help me understand that cuz I on an. you know, if I just read it, ultra dense. calories, I'm like yeah, I understand. this. I don't really understand it. Okay, so with Dorito chips, let's take. Doritos. [clears throat] I mean I don't. mean to throw Doritos under the bus. >> No, no, no. Let's say all chips. All the. chips. >> Chips. Let's look at chips. So, chips. tend to be high in salt and fat. >> Okay. And so any combination of salt, sugar, and fat are is going to be what. we term hyper-satiating, right? So, it's. going to be like you you can just keep.

eating it. Right? And corporations, by. the way, are not trying to hide this. You remember those commercials that were. like you bet you can't eat just one. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once you pop, you. can't stop. Um, so like they they're designing these. foods, you know, with salt, sugar, and. fat to be hyper-palatable, hyper-satiating. So, what the problem is. is that those chips don't have any. protein and they don't have any fiber. And protein and fiber are the things. that are going to give you what that. feeling that you're talking about, which. is like feeling a bit full. Right? So, when when you're. eating something like that, you want to. be pairing it with something that has.

protein and fiber as well. So, maybe you. eat a chicken sandwich and you have like. some chips, right? Or maybe you eat a. bean salad and then you have some chips. Like so, implementing fiber and protein. are are really where you want to. >> Wait, wait. So, wait. But there's. something that's confusing here. So, you. say the chips. it's the salt, the fat you you eating. it. You know what I mean? It's making. you feel like you're still hungry the. whole time. You're eating the thing, you're eating the thing, you're eating. the thing. Makes you feel like you're. hungry, makes you feel like you're. hungry. And then you said pair it with something.

else is like a better is is a better way. to have it. What about those like brands. that say we've got fiber in the chips. And we've got Do you Do you know what I. mean? Like there's some chips that go. no, this is a protein chip. But it still has the same calories on. the bag and it's still. Are those actually better chips than the. other chips? And is the better enough to. be better for for us? Or is it just. little bit better? How much better? 27% better. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, damn. I was. like wow. I was like No, WE ARE KIDDING.

JESSICA. >> [laughter]. >> I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE EXPERT. YOU JUST MADE THAT UP. OKAY, YOU HAD US. YOU HAD US. YOU HAD. [laughter] US. I WAS SOLD. THAT'S not true. That's not TRUE. THAT'S. NOT TRUE. I [laughter] was sold. I was. Let me tell you, I had already scheduled. in my brain calendar. >> [laughter]. >> every event I'm going to. And I was. going to say 27% No, no, DON'T DON'T SAY IT. >> [laughter]. >> SO, I actually I have actually pro these. food corporations doing things like what. you're saying because I do think that if.

you can add to something that someone's. already consuming and you can almost. make a better version of it in the sense. and when we say better, it's just like. they're adding in these nutrients that. can help help potentially like make. potentially make them like more. satiating, right? Like fill you up as. you're eating them, which I think can be. a net positive. So, so I would say that. I think that that would be like a step. in the right direction to add some of. these things because it could. potentially help on the back end. I. don't really have data to say like how. much better it is or how how effective.

it actually is, but theoretically that. seems like it could be a potentially. good thing to me. I feel like that's. where they scam us though. They're smart. because. someone like you will say you need more. protein in your diet. You need to make. sure that you get more fiber. You And. then they just write on the bag more. protein, more fiber, just like the. doctor said. And then I'm like ah, back. to those Doritos. You know, everything. that you were saying about Doritos is so. true about how they make you feel cuz. I'm constantly battling with that. If I. haven't eaten anything healthy in the. morning, I'll start with junk and I'll.

start thinking I'm I'm doing good, but. then I'll feel even worse throughout the. day. But my question has always been. what is what is the definition of being. full and what is the definition of being. hungry? Cuz there's people who go I. don't eat that much and they're fine. But there's people who if they skip a. meal, they ultimately, you know, they. fall into collapse because they're super. hungry. So, when you're eating something. good, what is the battery level of now I'm. full? Is it because you've had the mass. of food or is it because your mind is. going we've ticked that box, we've got.

enough of that and we're good now? I actually do not know the exact answer. to your question whether which one it. is. I just know we have we obviously. have hormones that are kind of like. sending signals to our brain. We have. hunger hormones, we have insatiety. hormones. And so essentially. >> insatiety hormones? Satiety means like. you're full. Like so, hunger and then. full. Um, and so when, you know, when you are. eating to a certain level, this is why. they kind of say to like eat slow and. digest your food because it gives like. it gives your hormones essentially time.

to kind of trigger your brain hey, we're. full. Right? So, if you're kind of if. you are relaxed, you're sitting, you. know, a lot of people on vacation say. that they feel a lot better when they're. on vacation when they're when they're. eating. And a big part of that is. they're relaxed. They're not stressed. They're not running around while eating. And like they're not driving their car. and eating a sandwich, right? They're. like sitting at a table and chatting and. like having a meal and digesting that. meal. And so when they do that, they. tend to eat less as well because when. you're digesting it gives those signals. time to be like hey, we're full. So,

let's not overeat, which is another. thing about ultra-processed foods. It. makes it really like convenient to eat. quickly, right? And so the quicker we. eat, the more we're going to eat before. we feel that feeling of full. Okay, so help me understand one more. thing. Cuz I I. I really don't get this even though I. try and read it and understand it. How is it that that tiny bag can make. you gain weight when it's like. that tiny? Help me understand like the. calorie and and why you're gaining. weight from a thing.

So, I I can eat half a watermelon, as. I've said, and I can eat like few bags of Doritos. Now, I'm not saying this scientifically, yeah, but the Doritos will if I look at. my body, if I have like if I have a week. of terrible food like that, I'll see a. difference versus if I eat like. watermelons the whole week type like. fruit things. How how does that work because it it. seems like this is the mass of this is. greater. But I don't think people fully. understand how that tiny amount of food. is making them gain more weight than.

more food like in a plate. It's just calories. It's it's what we. term energy density or calorie density. So, a watermelon is very is not calorie. dense at all, which means that for the. mass that you're consuming, the calories. are very low. Right? Because they're the. watermelon, first of all, it has tons of. water. Like that's its main thing. It's. also got fiber and it's got all of these. other like properties to it. So So when. you're consuming it, you it feels like. you're eating a lot. It's just like if.

you consume like a huge plate of. vegetables, right? There's not going to. be a lot of calories in those. vegetables, but it's going to look like. a lot. Like you're going to If you hand. me a big salad, I'm going to be like, "Whoa, that looks big." And then you. hand me like this little bowl of pasta, it might not look as big, but it's going. to have way more calories in it than my. big salad, right? Of of vegetables, you. know, if you don't put dressing on it. So it's it's all about the caloric. intake. So the small bag of chips has. likely far more calories than the half a. watermelon or a few pieces of.

watermelon, whatever you're eating of. the watermelon. Um so so so that's really what you're. looking at. It's all about the calories. that you're consuming. Am I correct in. then saying if I think of it as an. analogy, it's like. calories are like words in a song, right? You can have a a rap song with. there's like a lot of words in each. line. Just a lot of words. And then you can have like opera or. something with it's like one word for. the whole You know what I'm saying?

That was only two words. No no no. This is Hey hey. The. watermelon is Ave Maria in this analogy. Thank you. You see, experts don't judge. people. That's why I was speaking to. myself inside our house. That's why. I was SPEAKING TO MYSELF. INSIDE OUR HOUSE. THAT is why she's an. expert who's connecting with people. [laughter] because she doesn't treat. people like idiots when they try to. understand. Dr. Jessica, you have to. learn to say no. I actually think it's a. good analogy. Thank you very much. I. never even thought of that [laughter]. analogy. Yes, because because now it's helping me.

understand. I never fully I won't lie, I. never fully understood it, but now when. you're saying it, I'm going like, "Okay, Ave Maria is two words." But look at how. long it You get what I'm saying? And. then like if you go to like a rap song. or something, then it's lyrically dense. Do you get what I'm saying? Okay. Lyrically dense is calorically. dense. The chips are calorically dense and then. you add to it, they don't have fiber and. they don't have protein which help to. fill you up. Right.

You see, I don't think most people know. this. They're not separate to the. calories. Like protein is is involved in. the calories, but they help to make you. feel fuller faster. Okay, so they're. like teaming up with the calorie to do a. better thing for the Ah, okay. If you have just the calories by. themselves, they don't have a teammate. and then they actually become bad for. you. Well, you can't just have calories by. themselves cuz calories I mean, do you. really want me to get into the details? Yeah, this is this is what people need. to learn. I I genuinely Yeah, okay. So. there's what we have macronutrients and. micronutrients. Micronutrients are.

vitamins and minerals, right? Vitamin C, vitamin D, whatever it is. Macronutrients are calorie containing. nutrients. So that's protein, carbohydrates and fat. Those are the Those are the three like. pro So So everything you eat is. comprised of I and or protein, carbohydrates, fat. And those all have calories. And we. And we need all of them. They're all very important. Yeah, they.

all play roles in our in our if you were. advising somebody on their diets and. they said, "I'm staying away from. carbohydrates and fats," you would be. not happy? No, because you cannot eat a. 100% protein diet. That would be very bad for your body. Because well, first of all, we run on. carbohydrates. I mean, that's that's and. we're getting our fiber from. carbohydrates. That's the only place you. can get your fiber. And. you also need fat for your brain health, for many things, for nerve signaling. So. fat's incredibly essential particu- I.

mean, for all of us. So each each. macronutrient has a really important. role in our body and and they all kind. of play together. And so you can say I'm. going to eat a lower carbohydrate diet. and that could be potentially beneficial. for someone. But you can't just like cut out. carbohydrates and fat and only eat. protein. Like just only eating like raw. chicken breast which also would have a. little fat. It's hard to get like pure. protein unless you're eating just all. ultra-processed protein powder. So when we see these people selling. their diets online where they go, "I've. just been eating meat only for 2 months.

and I feel amazing and now there's no. cancer in my body," we should be. skeptical of that. Yeah, and just to be. clear, meat has fat, right? So if you're. eating like steak or you're eating. really any meat, it's going to have some. fat. So meat has protein and fat without. carbohydrates. So they're eating a. protein fat diet without carbohydrates. And yeah, I'm. the what the literature says is there. can be short-term benefits for some. people on a diet like that where you're. really reducing carbohydrates like a. ketogenic diet or a carnivore diet, but. the long-term literature does not pan.

out. Like we don't have good good. evidence that that's sustainable for the. long term. When we when we look at food labels, how. are we able to discern any of this. ourselves? So you know, I know there's. that like simple rule that they give you. where they say if you want to stay. healthy, stay on the outside of a. grocery store. And they go like just never go in. So. stay on the perimeter and then leave. And they say you will be healthier. Right? But But if people are looking at. a package, how do you know when the.

thing is or isn't bad? Because I. remember once seeing. RFK was talking about like ingredients. in food and he was like and he was like. and I had to read the subtitles. >> [laughter]. >> I was like, "Thickalisa, is that real?". No, and he would And then he was like. talking about the thing and he said. like, "This is What is this? What is. this?" What And and then. there were scientists who came on and. said, "No, that's just the scientific. name for vitamin C." No, it was. riboflavin, I think, in that video. Yeah, and it was like, "Oh no, that's.

just the scientific name for for salt. and that's the scientific So. like Is Is there a shortcut or is there. a way to know. what like the colloquial word is versus. the scientific word? Like how do how do how people supposed. to know this? Cuz it all seems like it's. poison when you read it on a bag, but then some of it is not and then some. of it may be. So when you're looking at a nutrition. label, and this is why like I'm a big. advocate of front of package labeling.

which is like more clear for people to. really understand, "Oh, this is high in. sugar or this is high in fat." Just so. people are more aware. Right now we. don't have that, but they're working on. it. But we have labels and you'll always. be able to see the amount of calories, the amount of protein and carbohydrates. and fats and then an ingredient list. And so, you know, it depends on what. someone's goal is really. Like if you're. looking at a label, I don't actually look at labels much. myself because I kind of. you know, I I I don't eat a ton of.

[clears throat] like pre-packaged food, but the pre-packaged food I eat, you. know, if I'm buying like crackers or. something, you can look at it if you. want to and like look at how much fat a. cracker has and then you can compare it. to another cracker that has a bit lower. fat. But you know, if if you are just kind of. like shopping for yourself, um. I don't the label the label can give. you, you know, the way that the ingredients label is is. that it's the first ingredient is the. largest in the in the food and then it. goes down from there. And so a lot of.

times in the ingredient list, it's like. vitamins and minerals and there's a lot. of them, especially like wheat products. cuz we fortify our wheat here and so. they have like different B vitamins in. them. So a lot of times it can feel very. overwhelming to see like a big long. ingredient list, but it's not as. overwhelming as one might think. In the food cuz that's how the food was. made. Like the actual You see, I didn't. know that about wheat and that. Fortifying wheat, we fortify with like. vitamins and minerals in the in the. wheat.

So you'd find that people who work out. will have a pre-workout meal and a. post-workout meal sometimes. Maybe it's. a shake, maybe it's a salad, whatever it. is. The average person who doesn't work. out, do you have to be conscious about. if you're going to have maybe a busy day. and you're going to work You're going to. walk like maybe 4 miles today. Can you. specifically look into your pantry or. your fridge and go, "I'm going to eat. like this because I'm going to be. active" versus "I know I'm not going to. get out of the house for the next 4. days, so eating this might be bad for. me"? In terms of the amount that they're.

eating? So they're going for a walk for 4 miles. a day? I'm going to walk a lot. So I'm going to. walk from home to work. Is there. specific foods that I should avoid if I. know that next week I'm working from. home, I shouldn't eat any of these? No, I think that you know, you can you. can like downregulate the amount of food. that you're eating if you downregulate. your. energy expenditure or your physical. activity. Like you can you can decrease,

right? You don't have to eat as much. food. So you'll eat more food when. you're more physically active and then. the next week if you're less physically. active and that's where like hunger. signals come in, right? And so if you if. you feel hungry, you eat again kind of. like try to digest your food. Eat till. you are no longer hungry. Don't overeat. cuz it like, you know, continues to. taste so good. Or like hobby-wise, a lot. of us will do that just like out of. habit. And so just, you know, eat to. fullness and then and then the next week. you probably won't be as hungry and so.

like you will not probably eat as much. You don't have to plan for it though. How important is listening to your body? Cuz sometimes like what you touched on. this hobby eating and habit eating is. quite prevalent right now, right? You. see something on television on social. media, you go, "I think I'll order one. of those." But how is it how is it how. important is it to listen to your body. and go, "It might be 6:00 and I usually. eat at this time, but today I'm not. hungry"? Yeah, it's really it's really important. to listen to your body and not Yeah, and. not override signals and and that's why. like distraction can be a problem too. sometimes. So like if we're really.

distracted or really stressed or really, you know, doing things while we're. eating, it can lead to overeating versus. just kind of like being present with. your meal and sitting there and now. we're getting into like the psychology. of eating, but it is it's a lot of like. presence can really help in terms of. like understanding your own hunger and. and satiety cues. Do you think there. needs to be It's interesting that you. said that. Do you think there needs to. be an overlap in how we talk about these. subjects? Because for a long time. experts have always like stayed in their. lane. And I mean like just stayed in.

their lane. Yeah. You know? Mhm. They'll. go like, "No, no, I'm a bone doctor.". You like, "But are you a doctor?". They're like, "Yes, of bones." Like, "But can you tell me what's" They're. like, "No, Mhm. bones.". >> Mhm. And I'm not saying they shouldn't do. that, but. it it almost feels like then the gaps. open up for the people who are like, "Oh, I can tell you about bones and. more." And those people may not be the. experts, you know? Like I've I've seen a. bunch of your videos with Winstons. you're [snorts] talking to moms. And I understand why because you told us. the personal connection you have with.

misinformation online to moms. But I've I've noticed that you you get. into the emotional side of things. You. don't just say, "Here's the facts. Here's the the yeah." You'll say like, "I know you're scared." Or hey, it might. be scary when you hear that or when you. you you might be worried about that. Or. here's you feel like you want to. When did When did you decide or why do. you think it's important to to make that. shift and expand beyond like just the. literature and the science and include. the human on the other side of the. information? I think I benefit from my.

audience and the the conversations that. I have like in my DMs, which I which I. actually do engage with quite often. And. and hearing how much stress and anxiety. and and food anxiety um many of these. women have. And and again, I went. through this life stage of pregnancy and. postpartum. And I actually with my. second I had pretty bad postpartum. anxiety. And so um I It was important to. me It's I mean, I I kind of lived it. And so I understand how they are. feeling. Yeah. And I think that that. gives me a lot of empathy for what's. what they're what they're going through.

Um and so that's actually why I also am. like so committed to kind of. correcting some of this misinformation, particularly that that's targeted at new. moms and young moms. Right. Because. because anxiety is really high. And so I. hear from women all the time in my DMs. about how much food anxiety they have. and how they're scared to eat anything. And how Mhm. You know, because that's. that's what the al If you get into a. particular algorithm on social media and. you just keep seeing the same things. over and over, and that's what plays. really well to social media algorithms. are these conspiratorial kind of.

really sensational claims. Mhm. Um it. can be really problematic. And so I. think it's really important to me when. I'm presenting information to meet. people where they are and and kind of. like bridge that gap, so then they'll be. more open to kind of hearing the. information that I'm providing and and. the data that I'm providing. We're going to continue this. conversation [music]. right after this short break. >> [music]. >> What's your What's your bat signal?

Like what's the thing that you see that. makes you go, "Time to get the cape. out." Woah. Cuz there's got No, because I mean I. think of I think of you like that. >> Woah. I don't think of Jessica like that. at all. What do you mean? I I really. I [snorts] really don't think of Jessica. >> You don't think of her like a superhero? Yeah, because because in one moment. you're Why not? Hey guys, let's get the. bat signal out. Let's get the cape. >> yeah, but that's Let's get the bat. signal. Yeah, but everyone has their. Batman, especially cuz you think about. it. You're sitting at home, right? You're a mom and you're a doctor, yes, but you're at home. Mhm. There's got to.

be something that you see. that makes you go, "I got to get my bat. cape." Like what I want to know what. that thing is. I I Trevor, don't do. that. >> don't want her to be Batman. >> No, don't do that. You're saying Dr. Jessica don't. >> do that. Go back to how when she sees. the. >> you got to do it. You So you're at home. Yeah. You hang out with the kids, you're. doing your whole thing, and then a video. comes up, you're like, "What is this. video?" And then you see the video and. you're like, "I've got to I've got to do. something about this.". >> [laughter]. >> What are you looking for? That's exactly. what I'm going to say it from NOW ON. WHAT DO YOU LIKE WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING.

FOR THAT triggers Because there there. there could be things that people have. There's old wives' tales. >> Right. Yeah. I could be wrong on this, but a lot of. them aren't really harmful. They just. don't do You know what it's like? People. throw salts over you. Things like that in even in nutrition, I'm assuming. Yeah. And then there are. things that are actually detrimental to. people's health. >> Misinformation. Misinformation that'll. that'll hurt you. Cuz there's useless. misinformation and there's. misinformation that'll hurt you. When. you're online and you're seeing these.

videos, what's something that triggers. you to go, "Oh, no, no, no, I've got to. step in and" Like for instance, what's. the most recent one that you did where. you went, "Oh, I've got to step in. here.". Yeah, so usually it's someone will. Most of the things that I um respond to. people have sent me. And so if somebody. sends it to me and then I see it and it. they are very concerned, that's like a. that's one of the signals that I look. at. So oh my gosh, they're they're. concerned. Then I'll go watch the video. And if I see in the comment section a. lot of people who are either being. misled by it or being concerned by it,

um that's that's usually what I look. for. So it's like videos that a lot of. people are influencing a lot of people. or where are confusing a lot of people. Um that's that's generally what I'll do. And then I also kind of think, "Can I provide a good rebuttal that's. not too in the weeds in a succinct. amount of time?" Cuz it's social media, right? And so if it if it's going to be. like a 10-minute rebuttal, it's usually. something that I'll kind of put to the. side. Um but if it's something that I'm. like I can literally just show a couple. of articles about exactly how false this. is, then then that's something that I'll.

kind of pick something that's like in. the vernacular in in the like where. where all talking about it. >> Okay, got it. Got it. >> And and that's in like the our thoughts. and. >> Yeah, the zeitgeist. Yeah, we're in the. zeitgeist. Yeah, and then um and then. can I really like respond to it. effectively in a short amount of time? Do the other people ever respond back to. you? Like. because you're out there saying, "This. is false. This is fake." Do those people. ever come back at you? Um I mean, it's happened a few times. Usually they just block me. Oh, lazy.

So they don't like try and challenge you. at all? Not usually, no. Ah, man. I I was. Sometimes though. Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes they refuse to like accept. what I've said, too. Or they'll just. kind of like dig in. Um. just depends on who it is, I suppose. >> So in that type of scenario. when someone is claiming to be an expert. and another person is an expert, how do you then show a neutral observer. where the truth actually lies? >> Yeah. Yeah, so I um I don't rely on them.

to just believe me because I'm me. I. That's That's why I use so many like. references in my videos and I'll show. like if I if I tell you For example, um. a lot of people on social media are. saying like synthetic food dyes are. banned in Europe, right? >> Like you've probably heard it. Red dye. 40's banned in Europe. So I will and I I. think that's a harmful narrative because. what it does is it kind of like plays. into this idea that like America is. poisoning us. Mhm. And all these other. countries care, like their scientists. care and their regulatory agencies care.

and they're banning these things. And. that's just not true. And so what I'll. do is I'll show, you know, all five. synthetic food dyes that are used in the. United States predominantly, which is. red red 40, yellow five, yellow six, blue one, and blue two have all been. deemed safe by EFSA in the European. Union. All of them. >> All of them. >> Huh. Yeah. See See your you. Yeah, no, I didn't This is because of. the narrative on social media. And and. they have. They've all been deemed safe. I knew that they were deemed safe, but I. didn't know that they were also deemed. safe in Europe. Mhm. Does that make. sense? Yes. So yeah, so they're deemed.

safe here by the FDA, but they're also. deemed safe in in the European Union by. EFSA. And so I'll go and I'll show kind. of like the their regulatory agency not. the regulatory, but their their. scientific safety agency and I'll show. how they're they've been deemed safe. So. you don't have to take my word for it. Go fact-check me. Um but I'm going to. bring this information to you so that. you're aware that it's not it's not a. difference in regulation. Um and then. and then I kind of like will walk them. through. uh you know, whatever else we're talking. about. But I think that that's really. helpful to kind of give people their own.

ability to then go and look into it more. if they want to. Or actually like show. them why it's false instead of just kind. of relying on them believing me that. it's false. Like I'm doing right now because I'm not. really showing you that it's false, but. go fact-check me after. No, no, no, I'm. I mean, I'll I'll read this, but I What. I'm saying is like I knew one part of. it, is what I'm saying. Mhm. You know? It's like I just knew one piece of it. And then I didn't know another piece of. it. And I think that's That's actually. what people don't realize. That's that's. fertile ground for misinformation. Mhm. A lot of people think and and this is.

something that I I had to learn. And I I. I learned it acutely during COVID. Before that I didn't really need to know. what I think. Mhm. I didn't understand. how so many people felt the way they did. about vaccines, right? And forget the COVID vaccines. I will. always say this to people who are even. like fighting with I go like, "Let's. forget the COVID vaccine for a moment. Take it away." Cuz I understand this was. a unique moment in time. It was fast. It. It's confused. Let's forget it. Mhm. But vaccines themselves, I don't. understand how you're against them. They'll be like, "Because they're not. safe and they're not this." And then I. go like, "I grew up in a country where.

like my arm looks like a war zone." Do. you know what I mean? It's like I've got. every vaccine. You've got every vaccine. Our parents have every vaccine. Everyone's just You don't. Please tell me you've been vaccinated. But they didn't give us a choice. You. were in school, bam bam bam, jab jab. jab, and they did the thing. >> Polio vaccine. Yeah, like all. Yeah, all of these things, right? And so. what I then realized was. it's sort of the opposite. It's not the people who don't know. anything, it's the people who are.

actually reading and trying to learn and. really informing themselves that are. oftentimes the most susceptible to the. misinformation because they. quote-unquote do their own research. >> Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So they. go, "Well, I actually read this and I. read this. And have you seen that video? And I saw the study that was done. And I. saw this and I And then it's like, is it. a study? Is it not a study? It was a. study on five people. Who conducted the. study? How do you even know when a study. is good? Is it a meta-analysis or is it. It it becomes. But that's where it's the fertile. ground. And so like the milk Make.

America Make America healthy again. movement. Yeah, Maha. Mhm. If you look at it, they. 80% of what they're saying is sort of. like the truth. The 20% is where they make the money and. the magic happen. I mean, that's the. best kind of misinformation. You do you. have a little bit of truth and that's. what gets people that's what brings. people in, right? It's like, "Oh, they're they're helping." Even if it's. like 80% of the time they're helping, right? Some of these people and it's. like they're giving out good. information, but it's the 20% of the. time where they're completely. manipulating the narrative and then, you.

know, taking advantage of you and the. narrative um that's really the biggest. problem. So, yeah, I think I think. you're right. There is a problem right. now because. um much of the misinformation we see, which is sometimes why it's the so hard. to kind of combat it and and like. explain the nuance because there's. there's overlap there. There's like we. yes, this is true and here is how that. is being manipulated. >> Yeah, because you now have to you have. to go yes first and people are like, "Oh, so you do agree." And then you're. like, "But, but, but." And now now it's. too late. Like seed oils is a good one.

That. That's like one of those myths that also. doesn't go away. Do you do do you do you ever see these. where no matter what happens, they just. keep coming back? They just keep coming. back. They just. So, like seed oils is a good one. Um. Sunflower oil versus canola oil. It just. seed oils. Those are both seed oils. In. South Africa, that's what's going on. now. Oh, that's the fight in South. Africa? Yes, cuz they're going canola is. canola oil is used for things that you. wouldn't want to know about. Then people. for a long time were using canola oil. over sunflower oil. Huh. And now the.

switch is people are going back to. sunflower oil. >> canola oil, canola oil, canola oil, canola oil, canola oil. So, there's a big drive I think is a. fight back obviously from the sunflower. industry that's going you need to use. sunflower oil. You need to use sunflower. oil. So, a lot of people now have moved. there. Avocado oil hasn't caught on that. much and obviously olive oil hasn't. caught on that much, but the big battle. right now in South Africa is between. canola oil and olive oil. So, are are. seed oils. >> and sunflower oil. So, are seed oils. toxic? No. No. >> Is palm oil toxic? >> No. Well, palm oil has some issues with.

the environment, right? And with like. that that sort of thing, but. all seed oils what the best nutrition. science research that we have um. suggests the exact opposite than than. that they're toxic. And this is where. again a little bit of a little bit of. truth kind of like gets kind of spun. into these interesting narratives. So, seed oils, which are basically vegetable. oils, that's what that's what we've. called them. They're like sunflower, safflower, canola, rapeseed in other. countries. Um these these oils are used.

all around the world, right? That it's. not just in the United States. Um and. what we have in terms of nutrition. science research, when we look at. epidemiological data and we look at. people who are actually consuming seed. oils, um it it shows the exact opposite. that than they're harmful for us. It. actually shows um a cardi-. cardioprotective mechanism. So, that it. it looks like it looks like they are. cardioprotective, especially when you. switch them for saturated fats. What are. saturated fats? Like beef tallow? Okay. >> Cuz beef tallow I've now seen online.

that's the healthy thing. This is the. best thing to use. You should only be. using beef tallow. Yeah, that's They. should wash your face in beef tallow. Yeah. Do you remember when they were telling. you to wash your face in coconut oil? There was the coconut oil revolution. I. tried it. It was terrible. Yeah. It just. blocks your pores. Yeah, I've And you. smell like coconut the whole day and you. just get like really hungry. All day long. All day long. >> When you walk in the sun or anywhere. I you I would just smell coconut. everywhere I was going. You smell. sauteed. Yeah, and then I was just like. it was terrible [laughter] for like. managing my hunger.

I'm I'm always fascinated about. >> wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let. me let me explain the seed oil thing and. Seed oil, sorry. cuz they do take I. mean, there is a and this is something. that happens actually a lot in in social. media narratives with nutrition. They'll. take a. a mechanism that's true. Okay. And then. they will expand upon that to where we. don't have any evidence to suggest. that's true. So, for example, seed oils. have some they're high in. alpha-linolenic acid and and um. linoleic acid. And so, that's those are. polyunsaturated fatty acids. And so,

that converts to something called. arachidonic acid and when we look it in. a lab setting, that increases. inflammation, right? It can Okay. increase the inflammatory cascade. And. that's that is true when that when that. conversion happens. But when we look. first of all, that conversion doesn't. happen very much at all. And second of. all, when we look at it in a human. model, cuz humans are complex. Our. bodies are complex and not everything. always like we might hypothesize because. this happened in the lab, it's going to. happen when we look at like humans. living their lives. Um and oftentimes.

that's not the case because again, we're. complex. And so, when we look at human. models and we look at people who have. been living and consuming seed oils, we. just don't see that same effect. So, we. don't see higher inflammation. We don't. see negative impacts. We actually see. that people who are eating more of these. linoleic these um polyunsaturated fatty. acids um have better health outcomes. And so, another but another truth is. that seed oils, because they're highly. processed, because they're cheap, and. because they are um relatively.

flavorless compared to something like. canola oil, um they're used in a lot of. these prepackaged ultra-processed foods. And so, we are consuming a lot of these. prepackaged ultra-processed foods. >> Okay. And so, we're over-consuming seed. oils, >> Okay. which can be prob- if you. over-consume anything, including. watermelon, it can be problematic for. your health, right? And so, those truths. exist, but what what does not exist is. this idea that seed oils are toxic and. why that's so harmful, you know, my. mother-in-law, she's from Romania and. she pretty much exclusively cooks in.

seed quote unquote seed oils, right? Like vegetable oil. >> But she's like sauteing vegetables in. their foods and things. And so, if. you're telling someone who's using that. cuz it's an affordable, accessible oil. that it's toxic, but they're eating a. pretty nutrient-dense diet and just. using that oil, that's very harmful and. problematic cuz because what are you. saying? That they have to go and buy. like the regenerate like regenerative. olive oil from like the farm with the. grazing cows? >> Yeah, yeah. Like that's just not. sustainable for people. So, we have to. we have to like live in reality and and.

understand that like science does not. say that these oils are harmful or toxic. and um they're accessible and affordable. for people, which is I think an. important distinction. But I think to. Eugene's point. uh and I mean, we've seen this it it's. not even a conspiracy. We've seen how. we're also like you're fighting with you. know, um misinformation, but we also. forget that there's a company in the. background somewhere. There's a food. lobby somewhere that's trying to push. something to push something else out to. push something in. Like look at how many. years fat was bad and then we found out.

remember in that investigation where. they're like the sugar lobby worked. really well to vilify fat and. carbohydrates. And then only now are we going, "Ah, damn sugar, you know, we didn't realize. that sugar was copious amounts of. sugar." Cuz again, nothing is just bad. But sugar was the thing we should have. been looking for in excess of amounts, but then it's fat-free. If it was. fat-free, it was good for you. And. you're like, "I can eat as much of it as. I want cuz it's fat-free. So, I will not. get fat, you know?". >> mean, it's important and I think you're.

you're drawing an important distinction. based on what what are corporations. going to do. First of all, the media is. going to sensationalize like science. findings, right? A study. They're going. to sensationalize the findings, but then. corporations, they're going to take any. little thing and try to spin it as the. like the best thing for them, right? So, they're and they'll use it in marketing. So, if, you know, if there's a study. that comes out that shows something good. about blueberries, right? Like a product. that has blueberries is going to put. that on their label and Yeah, yeah. >> This is the best thing that's ever. happened, right? And so, so the problem.

is we need to be better at regulating. those marketing claims. And and so, there are there are quite a few claims. that are regulated. Um I think they just. added like healthy last year, but. there's quite a few that aren't. So, like they can put it on the label and. just kind of like as a marketing tool. for for the company. There's also a. bunch of protein protein is that. >> protein's having If you just hit just a. the enough protein, they can be like. high in protein and that's like a. marketing thing for these companies. I. think organic for a long time was one of. those ones that. >> nailed that one. Yeah, organic is very.

regulated though. So, like you have to. meet organic standards. What are organic. standards? Let's say in meat or let's. say in fruits and vegetables. Yeah, I. don't I do not know exactly what the. organic standards are, but I just know. that like you have to use specific. pesticides in like fruits and. vegetables, for example. You can't use. non-organic pesticides. You use organic. pesticides. Um and there's I don't think it can be. GMO. I think there's a couple of other. like categorizations that but I'm but. I'm not sure exactly what it is. >> Can I can I just say something that I've. noticed which I really enjoy about.

talking to experts is you say I don't. know a lot. Yeah. And if you No, no, I don't know if. you've noticed this. This is and this is. it's so refreshing because we live in a. world where most people we interact with. on this level online, right? And so, we've been sold this idea that certainty. about everything means that the person. is an expert. Yeah. It you know, there's. a expert expert expert expert. And what's started to give me a little. more solace and and even, you know, to. your point like a understanding what a. red flag is.

is experts will tell you where their. expertise ends. So, you've said it, you know, we've had. a an. a neuroscientist on the podcast we and. they'll go. "Uh actually, I don't know because that. part I don't I think this cuz I know. that part of it, but I don't know about. this completely." And I wonder if that's. also something we should look at as a as. a red flag is if the person is. all-knowing about everything all the. time, something's fishy. Yeah, I think that is a good good use of.

red flags on social media. Yeah, if. somebody is like appearing to be. particularly like if they say they're a. doctor and then they don't put their. credentials in the actual like profile. So, they'll call themselves Dr. So-and-so, but there'll be no. credentials. Um usually I have found. that they are practicing outside of. their scope of practice. They're just, you know, you'll look at their page and. they're an expert in nutrition and an. expert in brain science and an expert in. this and that. And so, um that is a good. thing to I think to look at. >> Yeah, like I've always wondered how does.

somebody who is is just let's say. they're they're doctor of whatever is. medical doctor or they've got a. doctorate so they can say doctor? Mhm. How do they know about like 5G and. Wi-Fi? I'm always cuz I go. aren't these two things separate? Mhm. And again maybe I'm wrong but I I I. don't know that in medical school you're. learning about. the frequencies and radio waves and. do you know what I mean? But I but I. like how do you deal with those types of. claims? Do you do you then pass it off. to somebody? Do you you know like what.

do you what do you do with that? When. somebody says to you um oh. Dr. Jessica this is this thing here is. also does this cause that? What do you. say to them in that instance? Do you go. I just don't know move on to someone. else or have you like formed like a. little team of experts who you can pass. it on to? >> I have yeah. So if somebody asks me a. question that's just outside my scope of. practice they they do that quite often. with like um. like in uh beauty toxins like so like. you know the clean beauty movement and. that's just not my area. If they ask me. like what about this ingredient in.

lotion? I have absolutely no idea. So I. have like cosmetic chemists that I'll. refer people to. >> that. Yeah so so that it's helpful to. have like a little network of people who. are outside your area. Almost like a. Avengers. Yeah. Avengers of health. The. science communication Avengers. >> It actually is. That's like I mean. that's fundamentally what we need. >> Well Batman's not in in. in it's DC and Marvel. >> yeah. No no I'm just saying I'm not I'm. not coming anymore. You can't come. Batman sorry like legally Marvel or.

>> I like I like how in his fantasy world. you can have a male voice. and drop your kids and go I need to go. online. Yeah. >> But you can't be in another comic strip. Yeah he has like these boundaries that. don't necessarily. >> I draw the line at her crossing over but. her being a man. >> listen listen this is legal. This is. what this is okay? Yes I do not want to. be sued by Marvel or by DC for saying. that somebody is in another universe. Okay? >> You know what I love about you? YOU'RE ALWAYS WITH. >> [laughter].

>> UM I I WANTED TO ASK YOU WHY YOU WHY YOU. CHOSE the style that you chose for. debunking things. Um. and maybe it ties into what you were. saying about the scientific community. and academia in general. It's always. been very you know it's like Eugene do. your glasses? It's been very that. >> Lex yeah. >> Yeah you know what I mean? It's that. thing. And. you use humor. you you're really engaging you you take. it seriously but you do not take.

yourself too seriously. Why did why did you choose that. approach? You know because you could. have come in and just been like I'm an. expert here's what it is but but you you. didn't. You've you've gone for something. that isn't necessarily associated with. academia and with like rigorous studies. Why that choice? Um well thank you. I I don't know. I I. think it's just naturally who I am. Um. so it's probably just like. lucky me that I chose something that. that I kind of approach it that way just. as a natural thing. Um I also think that.

I have recognized that we have this. we're living in this moment that people. don't necessarily trust experts and they. don't necessarily trust scientists as. much as they did before. I It it's not. as bad as social media might have you. believe because I just presented on some. data. I was speaking at the Mayo Clinic. a few weeks ago and I presented data on. like the trustworthiness of different. professions and and scientists and. medical professionals are actually still. some of the most trustworthy people when. you compare them to you know other. professions. Um and so I don't know that.

the problem is as bad as we see it but. it's certainly declining and so. I think it's really important to like. humanize like experts and um and. scientists in particular cuz that's my. space. Um I think you know we take a lot. we should take some blame for the fact. that people don't necessarily trust or. are losing trust in science and that's. because you know scientists for a long. time and even still today we write in a. language that's not accessible to. people. We speak in a language that's. not accessible to people like your. glasses right? [laughter] We. Yeah and we we we publish our work.

behind paywalls that are not accessible. to people where you have to pay like $85. to read a single research article. And. so I think it's it's that's been a. problem and so we need to kind of like. put a face to people who are who are. doing the research. And I you know I. think that science communication is. actually becoming more of an important. field so that we can bridge that gap. between like the researchers in the lab. and then like what people actually need. to know so that we're able to fill some. of that gap too. Um but I think like. what to your point of like humanizing.

like being human right? And like. inserting you know a personality um I I. just think that that helps to build. trust too right? So like when you can. you have to like know the person to then. learn from the person. And so so that's. part of it. I also like the fact that. you're giving it to people for free. You know this is something that we don't. focus enough on it in society and it's. that you have to pay for the truth but. lies are free. You know what I mean? Like there's no websites that has lies. that you have to pay for.

Search anything online search about any. story any news article any health. article you name it. The article the news the websites and. the pages that are fake. >> Yeah. are free. You're right yeah. >> And then when it's a real thing they'll. be like would you like to pay for the. truth? And I'm like yeah but if it's so. important why? And don't get me wrong I. understand Exactly I I don't get. >> get me wrong I understand that they have. to pay their people. Yeah they have to. pay people etc. but it is sad that we we. live in a world and and that's why I.

also appreciate that because. this is not your job and yet you are. giving people education that they. wouldn't otherwise be able to access if. they weren't in the institutions that. you're in. Yeah. Yeah yeah I mean you're you're. bringing up a point that's kind of um it. it's it's like nuanced because we have. to also figure out a way to make it. sustainable for people to do. >> Yeah. like like science communicators. and things like that and so you know. there's still has to be conversation. about how to do that but yeah I I think. that it's really important and and. that's why I mean I have a substack that.

I never put things behind paywalls and. that's why like I want people to have. access to to the information um because. I think that that's really important and. we they shouldn't you know we you don't. want to put things behind paywalls if. you really want people to understand. them but I also understand the other. side that people have to make a living. you know. >> Yeah I feel like in a perfect world that. that'd sort of be like a fund maybe or a. Like in a perfect world every university. would be and I know many do by the way. don't get me wrong in you know certain. courses but every university should be. giving away a portion of their education.

for free. You get what I'm saying? So that. education is not only limited to the. people who can pay for it. >> Well I guess that's what scholarships. are. Yeah but I'm saying even beyond. that I say like on I mean just just meet. meet the people where they are. I know. Harvard does it there's a few of them. where you'll be shocked at how many. courses you can do at a high level. university without ever going there. Yeah. But nobody knows about it is is. the weird thing. You don't know that if. you go to that page and you click on it. there are free courses you can do on a. whole host of things that won't make you.

an expert but it at least will give you. you know a basic level of knowledge that. welcomes you into the game without you. paying anything. Yeah a few things I've. learned this week is the human body is a. very complicated machine. And I think. we're still trying to figure it out. scientists I think they're still trying. to figure out how the human body works. And another part thanks to you is that. nutrition can be a complicated subject. if it's led by the wrong information. right? So if people know what to eat and. what not to eat people will be. healthier. But I also feel like society. has made certain body type look.

unhealthy and certain body types look. healthy. So if you're super skinny we. assume that you are healthy if you're. not super skinny we assume that you are. unhealthy. And I think that. psychologically as a nation as a country. as a people we need to do a lot in just. convincing people that body types might. be different appetites might be. different likes might be different but. the healthiness is not determined by. what someone looks like right? Yeah it's much more determined by the. behaviors that that person is engaging. in right? And so you're you're. absolutely right like we can all we just.

just naturally we all have different. body types. And what's interesting is. that's kind of like flipped in terms of. like the public perception of it. It. used to be. >> amazing yeah. Yeah I mean and you guys. probably know this even better but it. used to be if you had a bit more weight. that was looked at as a healthful thing. versus versus the opposite. >> The flip for me was just coming from. South Africa to the US when I mean you. were when we were growing up they were. as many if not more jokes about a person. being skinny like nicknames sticks man. zanza you know what I mean? All those. things. Stiggy Malinky. Stiggy Malinky.

all of you know what I mean? Wishbone. There you go. Eugene wrote. wrote most of them. >> [laughter]. >> Are there really this many? No there. really are. No there really are there's. tons tons and tons and tons. And like your parents would even roast. you as well if you were like skinny they. would even be and then people would. roast your family and they'd roast and. you could Yeah. And then you. and and look I understood it over time. but you'd come to the US and it would be. the opposite. >> Yeah. And then I realized that no matter. where you were. the insult was generally coming from how.

far you were from society's perception. of not just the looks but wealth. Yeah. So in Africa if you were skinny it's. because you were poor. Yes. So the. further from skinny you could be. the wealthier you were. But then in the. United States the the fatter you were. the further you were from wealth. And so. now you could you could pay to look it. it meant that you could get healthy food. and vegetables. It meant that you didn't. eat takeout every single night of the. week. And and going back to what Eugene.

said I I love that one point you said. about the differences. How do we figure out what a serving size. actually means? Cuz like. people will say like serves two one. serving what is what is a serve when you. think of it as a nutritionist like what. what is or isn't a serving and how do we. think of should I eat one serving if it. says serves one? Is that one for me or. is the one different for everyone? How. does that work? Yeah so serving sizes I. mean there's standard serving sizes and. like you can use your palm. Like for. example, protein might be like the palm.

of your hand. Um and these are. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's slow. that down. Protein is the palm of your. What do you mean? >> I mean, that's just kind of like a good. marker. >> Like a good rule of thumb. >> Yeah, a good rule of thumb. Like the. amount that's. >> of protein I should eat is the palm of. my hand. >> For one serving, yeah. Wait, wait, but. how high does the protein go? Yeah, that's a good question. Cuz that's what. I No, but that's what's always confused. me. CUZ I I'LL GO TO. YOU CUZ YOU GO TO YOU GO TO A STEAK. RESTAURANT. How are These are good. questions. >> Yeah, but you go How many times has this. happened?

You go to a place and you go, "Can I get. a steak?" right? If you get like a skirt steak, like it's. a little thin New York strip steak or. something. A strip steak is They'll give. you like a thin strip. >> Right. And then it fills your plate. And. then sometimes you go, "Can I get a. different cut?" And the meat's like this. high, but it's just And I'm like, "That. That fits in the palm of my hand.". >> Yeah, yeah. So, the palm of your hand is. not a perfect measurement. It's just. kind of like a general, but there there. are actual serving sizes. >> Yeah. >> So, like meat might be 3 to 4 oz. Right? So, if you go to a a restaurant and you.

get an 8-oz steak, that's going to be. like. >> we've two servings of steak. Two to two. to two and a half servings of steak. And. so, um if you're looking at like a. label, it will say what the serving size. is. So, like for cereal, for example, it'll be like 3/4 of a cup. And then you. like pour it in your bowl and it's like. three times 3/4 of a cup, right? So, so. that's going to be three servings. So, then again, this is kind of like This is. my nutrition 101. Of [laughter] course. >> I love it. That's what everyone needs. >> says 100 calories for 3/4. [clears throat] of a cup, but you pour.

yourself three servings of which was. kind of like a standard cereal bowl, right? Um you're actually getting 300. calories, not just 100 calories from. from that amount of food. You have to. like triple it cuz you're having triple. the servings um on the label. So, so. that's kind of how you would think about. it. >> Is that part of the problem in America? Like I I know this isn't the casual, but when people travel, everyone will. comment on how serving sizes change. You. know, they'll go like a cup of. [clears throat] anything in America is. massive. Like the movies is the best. example. When you go to the movies in.

America and you get a large soda, if you. came back with that large soda to South. Africa, like the whole village is. drinking with you. Do you know what I'M. SAYING? >> [laughter]. >> SHE'S NAPPING. WITH A SERVING OF MEAT. [laughter]. BUT LIKE like like you know, those those. are also strange signifiers that throw. people off cuz they go, "I I've seen. people say this and I don't even mean it. in a mean way. They go, 'I barely eat. anything. I had one bowl of granola and.

I had like one cup of coffee and then I. had one this and I had one and I had one. sandwich and I had one burger and I I. can't lose the weight.'". And and I I feel like you would be the. perfect person to explain to them how. the like the the size of the thing makes. the difference cuz you just broke it. down with cereal. Yeah. And when you. said just pour three. fourths of a cup, I went I would that. would. If you came to my house. and you were like you saw me pour a cup. of 3/4 of a cup, I'd be the first person.

to tell you I don't know what you're. doing. >> Exactly. Yeah. I've never done that. Like you you fill the bowl. The bowl. must be full. Yeah. This is the So, would you tell people to get smaller. bowls? >> like wine at home in their glass. That's. not actually [laughter] a serving of. wine. That's not a serving? No, but you see how high the wine gets. >> like two like two servings of wine, right? Okay, in your home glass. >> my thing, the disconnection that people. have with their food. Do you find that. it has a psychological effect? Cuz when. I was growing up, my mom, when she'd be. making dinner, it would take an hour for.

her to get everything ready and it would. get you anticipate. the meal. And she would be like, "You. can't eat a sandwich. I'm already. cooking. Don't run your appetite." Do. you feel like now people Or you have. people who go, "If I cook, then I can't eat the food. I. don't feel like eating the food. anymore.". >> tasting eating the whole thing. >> Do you feel like now people have. disconnected from the process of making. meals that stops them from enjoying. meals versus what you said to me the. other day that the anticipation for a. meal nowadays is gone. People are. watching TV. >> how is is the is that in your field.

discussing how somebody should even. think of consuming a meal? Like does it. change. what the meal does to them or. you know, to sort of what Eugene is. saying is like. is it detrimental to us to not be part. of the food being prepared? And I don't. mean like detrimental detrimental. Are. there benefits? Yeah, to being kind of. disconnected from the from the whole. food system essentially. Yeah, um so. there's some good data like with. children, for example. If you integrate.

children into the like whole process of. cooking the meal, I I even have a garden. for my for my son. My son and my. 5-year-old son and I started a garden. because he gets so excited to like grow. like the vegetables and like he gets He. always goes Unfortunately, only one. strawberry the whole season grew this. year. >> [laughter]. >> One? >> was out there like every day looking for. a strawberry. It was really sad. Actually, to the point that literally a. couple weeks ago, he took strawberries. from the. refrigerator and put it into the garden. and then came and got us and was like, "Look!" Aw, [laughter] that's adorable.

I like that he was trying to like manage. your disappointment. >> know. He was like He was sitting there. at night and he's like, "Aw, [laughter]. my poor parents. They don't understand. agriculture. They really are having a tough time with. disappointment. Let me. >> [laughter]. >> Let me Let me Let me make their day. I'm. just going to go and make their day." I. don't know why the strawberries didn't. grow. Maybe somebody out there can tell. me, but um anyway, it gets him excited, right? To like prepare the food. And. then if he helps me in the kitchen like. cook the food, it gets him more excited. and he's more willing to try the food in. that sense. And I think that that's like.

a psychology that is obviously true for. like all of us, right? If we have more. of an investment in the whole. preparation process, it can be helpful. to us. Um but but again, that there's a. lot of barriers to being able to do. that. So, like there's time barriers and. there's obviously money barriers and. access barriers um that that all kind of. play into our individual choices. Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? >> [music]. >> After this.

>> [music]. >> So, if somebody is coming to your feed. and they they they're looking for the. information, what are the things that. they should look to you for and what are. the things that they shouldn't look to. you for? Like when you go like, "This is. like what I I will distinctly help you. with. It's It's you know, this is the. column." Yeah, so I I. focus a lot on the systems in our. country that. >> Okay. that set us up for success for. evidence-based recommendations. So, if. we're trying to like deep If we're try. Well, first of all, nutrition science, right? So, all of the nutrition stuff.

But if we're trying to prevent. lifestyle-related chronic disease, >> Yeah. um there's many things that go. into that. And so, there's there's. nutrition, there's exercise, um there's. sleep, and there's stress reduction, and. you know, there's there's accessibility. of health care access so you can go to. preventive visits. Um and so, looking. at, you know, we all make individual. choices within a system. >> Right. And so, what are the systems in. in this country um that either set. people up for success or set people up. for failure? And what policies have been.

enacted that have led to these systems. versus what could we be enacting that. could improve those systems? So, um I. kind of like look like to look at the. like whole health system um and and. public health in general, but um so. certainly like nutrition science and and. then looking at holistically, what can. we do to prevent chronic disease? If you. were giving somebody just like simple. tips like for all of us to go away. Like. I know now no more half watermelon. This is I've You didn't say it to me, but I felt it.

And I appreciate that. Palm of my hand is a shortcut, but. obviously understanding it's still. within, okay? But But what are some of. the tips that you would give somebody. um Let's let's let's break it down. actually. You know, because there's so. many different types of people. So, let's start with a mom. Let's say. there's a mom out there who goes, "You know, >> [sighs]. >> I I really want to get out there and I. want to make sure that my kid is getting. the right food in the right ways. Do I. get them a bag of [clears throat]. candy? Do I give them a treat? Do I give.

them chocolate? How bad is this for. them? What am I trying to feed them? What are some of the tips that you would. give just a mom in that situation? Because they don't want their kid. getting cancer or type 2 diabetes or any. of these things." Yeah, so let me um let. me like step back and just give kind of. like a holistic view of what we've been. what we've been recommending really for. decades. Cuz I think there's a lot of. confusion in nutrition on because of. social media. >> Yeah. >> About like what to eat, what not to eat, what to do. Um but like in the nutrition. science research, like it's been pretty.

consistent for decades. And so, overall, like if you meet these things, you're. going to be far and away better than, you know, most people. Um so, making. sure that you're getting fruits and. vegetables and a variety of these whole. foods as much as possible. And again, there's going to be issues in. terms of barriers for people. But this. is what the evidence shows. So, getting. a range of fruits and vegetables, getting a range of proteins, a variety. of proteins that can be different meats, that can be beans, tofu, like all of. these different plant-based and and.

animal-based proteins. >> I'm going to interrupt you in a few. places. Forgive me. Just so just so I. can clarify in some of these. Um. Does it change. what packaging those things come in? So, if somebody goes, "I'm going to get. beans, but they're canned and I'm going. to get tofu, but it's in this packaging. and I'm going to get Does it change at. all?" Or Is that still the good. foundation to to go with? >> Yeah, so those things are going to be, you know, those are going to be on the. margins, right? So, maybe it'll change a. little bit, but like the the overall. I would prefer much prefer you to eat.

canned beans than no beans. >> Okay, got it. Okay, got it. Right? So, like that's the it's this is so much. more important in terms of like what. you're including versus like should it. be canned or should I prepare it from. the bag in a in an Instant Pot or. whatever it. >> got it. Okay. Um and then, you know, if. if cuz canned beans are incredibly. accessible and convenient for people. And so, if that's going to get you to. eat more beans, which is going to. increase your fiber intake, that's what. I'm going to go with, right? >> I myself use a lot of canned beans cuz. it's so much easier. I just rinse them. off. Um but Wait, why do you rinse them. off?

Um just to rinse like the sodium off cuz. there's a lot of sodium in the can to. prevent spoilage. >> there's a trick. See, there's a trick. Yeah, you. stick them in a colander and rinse them. off. I've seen people doing that with. garbanzo beans, right? Yeah, yeah. Chickpeas. Yeah. Yeah. They rinse them. off and then they. No, but you see this is this is what I. mean is like yeah, these types of things. because. we live in a and I mean I don't need to. tell you this, but we live in a world. where sometimes the tips are given to. people in a way that I love what you. just said. It's given to people in a way. where they can't access it. So it's like.

don't eat the stuff in the can and then. they're like, well, you've already. excluded me because I can't afford the. other things or it's not convenient. I. don't have the time. But I love that little tip that you've. included there. Get the canned beans, just rinse them off cuz the bean is. great. It's all the stuff that's around. the bean that maybe not as good for you. Yeah, just reducing the sodium content. Exactly. >> Okay, cool. All right, so okay, got it. Yeah, and that's the same with like. frozen frozen vegetables and frozen. fruits. I mean those are wonderful. options and they're more accessible and. they'll last longer and so if that's. what can get you to eat more vegetables,

like choose the frozen options, right? And actually sometimes frozen can be. more nutrient dense cuz they flash. freeze it. Yeah, then then fresh. But. yeah, so get a variety of fruits and. vegetables, get a variety of proteins, make most of your grains whole grains or. a good amount because you're getting. more fiber. I mean all of this is kind. of like trying to increase fiber. Um. and. >> forgive me, I I know I'm going to sound. like an idiot cuz I am, but also because. I think a lot of people don't know what. these things mean. So what is a whole. grain? A whole grain just has more fiber. in it. So like.

it's it's versus a refined grain. So a. refined grain will go through like the. refined like But give me an example of. what is what is a Like white rice versus. brown rice for example. Not that I'm. saying not to eat white rice cuz I. myself like white rice. It's just that. you want to implement some whole grains. So so things like whole wheat products. instead of refined wheat. So that'd be. like a whole wheat bread instead of a. white bread. >> Okay, got it. Got it. That's kind of the. best example. And and again, that's because it's going. to get you more vitamins, more. nutrients, and more fiber essentially.

>> Okay. Um and then you know, reduce your. intake of low nutrient ultra-processed. foods. And and again, that there's. variability there, but really when we're. thinking about it and it that doesn't. mean eliminate your intake, right? It. just right now 70% of our food. environment are these ultra-processed. foods. And 70 cuz again, our our food. our food environment was really built. for corporate profits, not not. necessarily for our health at kind of. every stage of the food food cycle. But. um. decreasing your intake of those and.

making sure that you're getting adequate. fiber, adequate protein, and that's not. really too much of an issue for us. And. adequate fruits and vegetables and those. things again, they've been consistent. forever, those dietary patterns. And then you know, in terms of there's. there's other things like in terms of. exercise, making sure you meet your. exercise needs. But for food, that's. kind of like holistically what we're. looking at. Now, if I'm working with a. mom, that's when it becomes okay, she. has like a time barrier. She has you. know, if if she doesn't have an. accessibility barrier, then that's.

great. And so what what I would say is. start your child really young. Get them eating a variety of foods young. so that they they kind of are doing that. and then they might go through kind of. like a picky stage and that's okay. Don't be like too nervous about that, but just keep offering, right? Keep. offering different things. Make the food. fun. There's a lot of like psychology. there and some of my colleagues who. really work in this like child space are. really great at this and they can like, you know, the broccoli and you can dip. it in the ranch and then show that it. has snow on it and then like get them to. like eat it more. Yeah, my mom used to.

throw carrots at my head and be like, "Missiles, duck. Missiles, duck." Yeah, that's one way to do it. Move, move, move, move. Get down, soldier. I have PTSD, but great eyesight. So maybe don't throw baby carrots at. somebody's head. That recommendation did not come from. me. Let's. Let's not try and get. >> [laughter]. >> Let's stay in this moment.

>> [gasps]. >> Oh, you know you love me, Eugene. I do. You know you love me. >> [laughter]. >> Okay, so make the food fun. I actually. like that. Make the food fun. >> Yeah. Yeah, and then there's again. variety. Like getting your kids variety. >> Um Um and then don't worry too much. about like, you know, if you have a. strong foundation of food and you're. getting all of these foods, there's room. for like these these snack foods as. well. I mean kids are going to have. these foods when they're at parties and. even at your house, there's room for. them. There's been a lot of heat around. baby food and food formula and that's.

like been one of the the main. battlegrounds and I know you you've. you've discussed this. What is your advice around that? Like, you know, to moms who. don't know. They go, "I I've heard that. baby food is bad and I've heard that. formula is bad and I I I I don't I don't. know what to do at this point. What's. your advice to them?". Um a lot of it again, it's a vulnerable. population that is easily targeted on. social media with viral sensational. content sensationalized content. So I. think understanding that and realizing. that is like the first thing. Infant.

formula is safe and it's healthful for. babies who who need it. Um there's. there's you know, lots of infant formula. is actually some of the coolest science. Like I I love infant formula science cuz. like how amazing that we've been able to. as best as we can replicate breast milk. so that like infants can have this food. source and survive, whereas they used to. not survive before this existed, right? And so I think it's it's very cool where. we've come and I mean. Um so so infant formula is safe and it's.

healthful for for infants. Um and you. know, I I'm a proponent of. breastfeeding. I breastfed both of my. children and I think that that's. wonderful and I think it's wonderful. that there is a safe option for for. infants who are not breastfed. So yeah, infant formula, you know, some. of the biggest things that I see are. like the fearmongering out there about. infant formula are about. the sugar source, like having corn syrup. in the infant formula and then seed oils. in the infant formula. And they'll.

compare them to the EU and. I've done a lot of videos on this. Every. single infant formula all around the. world contains quote unquote seed oils. and that's because of their. polyunsaturated fatty acid content. And. so cow's milk, which is the basis of. formula, is a lot lower in polyunsaturated fat. than breast milk than human breast milk. And so what happens is you have to have. cow's milk and then you can add in those. polyunsaturated fatty acids with. something like a seed oil to more. closely mimic breast milk. And so that's.

why they're used. Again, the science is so cool. Like that. they were able to figure that out and. like yeah, be able to do that so that. they're getting all of their and and. this is really important for brain. development in infants, right? So they. need those polyunsaturated fatty acids. And then corn corn syrup is the other. one which is a sugar source and what I. would say is. >> That one's been fixed though. Trump took. the corn syrup out of Coke and it's. healthy now. Yeah, so that's high. fructose corn syrup, which is different. than corn syrup. No, no, no, they're the. same. >> [laughter]. >> It's all fixed. It's all fixed now. No, so um.

This was a big thing. Yeah, it was. >> It's huge. Like Trump was like he's. like, "I'm getting rid of it. No more. corn syrup, only sugar like Mexican. Coke, but I don't want Mexicans, just. the Coke.". I added that last part. He didn't say. that, but I think he thought it. >> [snorts]. >> And you saw what actually happened, right? >> What happened? No, what actually. happened? >> What actually happened is Coke used it. as a marketing tool and instead of. getting rid of the high fructose corn. syrup, they just created one more. offering that has cane sugar in there. But but okay, but is is cane is the cane.

sugar one healthier for people? No. No. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I've. always heard that high fructose corn. syrup is killing people. I know you have, yeah. And cane sugar, cuz I know what a cane what a cane thing. like when cane. >> thing? A cane thing. You know. The. reason why people end up in Jamaica is a. cane thing. I apologize. [clears throat]. Sugarcane. Sugarcane. >> Okay, yes, yes. I've seen sugarcane. I've eaten sugarcane. And then I see the. sugarcane becoming sugar. I've seen it.

happen. The high fructose corn syrup, it doesn't. seem to your point readily available. So. I'm like, how how is a high fructose. Actually it looks processed. Yeah, it. sounds It doesn't you can't even like. make it. >> a sugarcane. Yes. So how how's that. possible? >> Okay, so high fructose corn syrup comes. from corn, right? That's it's it's it's. just sugar from corn. So we use corn to. make the sugar, whereas cane sugar comes. from a sugarcane, you use that to make. the sugar. Whereas you know, sugar beet, which is very popular in Europe cuz they. grow sugar beet really well, that's what. they use to make their sugar. Right? So.

all of these are sources of sugar. So. high fructose corn syrup is called high. fructose because it's much higher than. corn syrup. So corn syrup is 100%. glucose. So anything higher than that in. terms of fructose level is called high. fructose corn syrup. >> Okay. Let me let me get a little bit. more in the weeds here. So high fructose. corn syrup both all of these sugars are. a combination of glucose and fructose. >> Okay, got it. So that glucose and. fructose combined 50% 50% makes sugar, what we know of as table sugar, right?

So that's 50% glucose, 50% fructose. High fructose corn syrup is anywhere. from 42% fructose to 55% fructose. >> Okay. So they are metabolically, when we. look at the data, the same. They're both. glucose and fructose. They have no. difference in terms of like their. metabolic impact on a human level when. we're looking at human physiology. They're they're both sugar sources. They're both made up of glucose and. fructose just in a bit of a different. varying amount. And the the difference in terms of.

health is just nonexistent in the. literature. Okay. And so again, and I. want to explain why we use high fructose. corn syrup in this country or why a lot. of corporations do. Because. we live in a capitalist economy where. corporations are trying to maximize. profit at, you know, and not not. necessarily to keep you unhealthy, they. just don't care if you're unhealthy, [laughter] right? Like Like yes, they're. like well, they just don't care. Yeah. Yeah. So so. >> coming after you. They don't care about. you. And I think that that's probably. this conspiratorial idea that everyone's. trying to keep people sick, but it's. actually not. It's just the logical.

conclusion of the system that we've. built, which is to prioritize profit at. the expense of everything else, right? If your main value is profit, you're. going to do things like buy the cheapest. ingredients possible. >> Mhm. In the United States through. policy, we have made corn a very cheap. commodity crop. >> Right. And and we do that through. subsidies for for commodities and we. grow corn really well here. We've also. done it by putting um quotas on the. amount of cane sugar that can come into. our country because we're trying to.

protect our corn farmers. And so we grow. a ton of corn here, whereas it's the. it's the exact opposite in in Europe. They grow a lot of sugar beet there and. they have done things like put quotas up. until like 2017, they put quotas on how. much high fructose corn syrup could be. could be made there. >> Okay. So because of that, manufacturers. are going to use the cheaper sugar, right? And so they use a lot of sugar. beets or like um sugar over there, whereas we get our sugar sources from. corn a lot. And so these manufacturers. that are making these ultra-processed. foods are trying to get the cheapest.

sugar product available and that's if if. cane sugar was the cheapest sugar. product available, they would choose. cane sugar. >> Right? But they choose high fructose. corn syrup cuz it's cheap cuz we've made. it cheap. Um and so that's what's in. food. And so what the problem is with. high fructose corn syrup is we are. over-consuming high fructose corn syrup. cuz we're over-consuming sugar. If you. over-consume any kind of added sugar, it's a problem and that's why, you know, the science-based recommendation is to. limit added sugars to less than 10% of. your overall total calories um and over.

half of the country does not do that. They eat too much sugar. >> Wait, there's a there's a list of. ingredients, basic ingredients that. uh people always interact with, always. have in their homes that they might not. be sure if they're good or bad, including myself. So I'm going to do a. quick fire of maybe a few. Then you tell. me yay or nay and why the yay, right? So. salt, is it a yay or nay? You need salt. Your body needs salt to. survive. It's too much salt that's the. problem, which is probably going to be. the my answer to all of these, but we.

can see. So good good salt is. So now there's a battle between. Himalayan salt or just normal salt. Which one is good, which one is bad? That they're they're neither is. They're they're both fine. Marketing. Yeah. Sugar, good or bad? Again, sugar, I mean there's sugar in. fruit and fruit is a wonderful food, right? So um because you're also getting. all of those nutrients. And so sugar is. not necessarily bad. It's the. over-consumption of sugar that's bad. And particularly like added sugar like a. soda, right? Cuz you're just drinking.

sugar with no nutrients at all. So So. that's kind of what you want to stay. away from or limit um versus just. thinking sugar itself is bad. White. sugar or brown sugar? Which one is the. best? >> They're the same. Ah, I always thought. brown sugar was way healthy. See, I. thought it was like brown rice. I would. eat it all the time and I'd be like, "Mom, look, I'm being healthy." No. And. then she'd throw carrots at my head. >> [laughter]. >> It's not any healthier. Wow. Okay, oil, vegetable oil versus. beef tallow. >> beef tallow Yes. versus olive oil maybe.

>> versus olive oil, okay. Um so this one gets a little bit. nuanced. There's actually some great. data to show um like health benefits of. olive oil itself. And and a lot of that. probably comes from it it's mostly. mono-unsaturated fats. And it also olive. oil usually comes with nutrients as. well. So if you're looking at the. nutrient composition um versus like. vegetable oils like you just mentioned. are are very refined. So they're not. going to come with any of those. nutrients. So if you if you want like a. an honest answer just looking at the. nutrient profile, olive oil wins in the.

nutrient profile. But when you look at. like what that means from a health. perspective for people to consume it, um. your overall dietary quality matters. much more than the type of oil that. you're using. Um and then beef tallow. is a saturated fat and for some people. um the recommendation would be to limit. saturated fats. People who are, you. know, at risk for cardiovascular. disease, for example. So that one's. going to depend a little bit on who you. are and what the rest of your dietary. makeup looks like, but the best.

epidemiological evidence we have in. nutrition would suggest that you want to. limit those saturated fats um and and. use uh poly-unsaturated fats, which are. more like olive oils. This is a shortcut. that I've I heard and I've been using, but I I. I would love to know if it was true. When you're talking about the different. types of fats, some I I read or saw once. someone said the way it looks outside. your body is the way it'll turn inside. your body. And I I didn't It sounded. great, so I believed it. Um Yeah, I mean. No, because what I meant was like, let's.

say you have a stew or any type of meat. that's cook You know like and the fat. will and if you leave it for a while, you see the fat harden, it rise, but. then it's like hardens, right? Whereas. like with like you're saying olive oil, it doesn't harden at any point. And then. I remember reading this thing and but I. don't know if that's true or not. Is is. that an approximation for it or is it is. this just like a a shortcut that isn't. really helping people? Yeah, I get where. that's coming from because um saturated. fat is what's hard at room temperature. So um and and uh unsaturated fats are. not hard at room temperature. So if you.

think of like bacon, if you're making. bacon and then you like pour the grease. into a can, it it that'll harden once it. once it like cools down and gets to room. temperature and that's because it's a. saturated fat. Whereas like a vegetable. oil will just sit in your closet and. it's obviously oil or fat. >> So yeah, um the idea is is that. saturated fats uh have been known to. contribute to um like atherosclerosis, which is like plaque buildup in your. arteries. And so that's probably where. that comes from. So they're probably. saying like, "Oh, because it's hard. here, it's going to contribute to plaque.

buildup." And it's an oversimplification. for sure um but but it's. I understand the rule of thumb. Okay, cool. >> And finally the big one, bread, good or. bad? Bread? >> Yes. Well, uh I mean I eat bread every day. So yeah, I love bread. >> [laughter]. >> You? I mean, look at like France and. Italy. I mean these people eat bread. every day, right? So it's not bread. that's bad. It's it's bread bread it's. over-consumption of ultra-processed.

carbohydrates and things like that, but. um bread itself is is a wonderful food. source that's eaten all over the world. Um so it's not necessarily bad. No, I. think bread got a really bad rap like in. the United States, I think like in the. '90s and 2000s and then it's kind of. like persisted um as being some like. uniquely bad food, but I wouldn't No, I. would not say that it's bad. The um milk, milk is is one that always. comes up. Which milk is good milk, which milk is. bad milk? Is milk even good? Should we.

be drinking milk? And then should it be. pasteurized or should it only be raw? Mhm. Okay, so um milk comes from a we're. we're generally talking about cow's milk. cuz that's what's most commonly. There's like goat's milk and things like. that. >> I never I was saying camel milk. I was. saying camel milk. >> [snorts]. >> Cuz you heard how he was interested in. baby formula. I was saying camel milk. Yeah. Okay, sharp. So cow milk. >> cow milk, okay. Yeah. Um again, like. good for people is like so subjective. and so we um and and like we have to.

like figure out what that means for. somebody, but um milk is is a very. nutrient-dense food for particularly. like young kids, right? So so it's often. recommended um because it's just a way. to get them calories and nutrients that. are that are great. I will say that I. think the dairy industry has really. impacted our recommendations of milk um. cuz it's it doesn't have any unique. nutrients that you can't get elsewhere. Mhm. So it's not like you have to have. milk in your diet. I don't personally drink milk cuz I just.

haven't in years, but um and I can get. all of the other like calcium and. vitamin D and riboflavin and all of. those nutrients elsewhere um and the. protein and fat. But again, it's it's. not a bad thing to drink milk. It's it's. just a food that you can either drink or. not drink and get the nutrients from or. not. And it depends what the rest of. your diet looks like. Um in terms of. pasteurized versus raw, which is you. know, talked about a lot, um there's not. great evidence that there's, you know, unique benefits to raw milk. I know that. a lot of people say that. I I haven't.

seen good data to suggest that, but. let's be really clear about what. pasteurization is. Pasteurization cuz I. think people might think it's like. adding chemicals to milk. It's just. heating milk. It's this wonderful public. health advancement that we've figured. out Louis Pasteur figured out 100 plus. years ago um that if you just heat milk. to 15° or for 15 165° for 15 seconds and. then rapidly cool it, it will eliminate. all of the harmful pathogens that used. to get people really sick or kill them.

And so it it like revolutionized the. milk industry cuz it was like, "Oh, people can actually drink this without. getting hurt now." And so that's what. pasteurization is. So it's just it's. just a significant way to reduce uh. foodborne illness and pathogen risk. Okay. So highly recommend. pasteurization. Highly recommend, got. it. Um. vitamin K, vitamin K Is there vitamin K? That's like a big thing. Is it silent or. is it. >> [laughter]. >> vitamin hay?

Sorry. No, no, that was amazing. I'd. like to apologize. Those are the Those. are the moments where I fall in love. with you again. >> [laughter]. >> I wasn't I wasn't against you there. I. was mesmerized. That's all I was. >> [laughter]. >> Do you see HOW TRAUMATIZED I AM? DO YOU. SEE HOW QUICKLY I APOLOGIZE? NO, REALLY, it was beautiful. Um. Again, that's something that you see in. like the mama movement is like vitamin. K, no vitamin K. Where do you get it, where do you not? Like when it comes to. those individual vitamins, how should we. even think of them? Are there people. saying not to get vitamin K? It's like a.

It was. There was a there's a movement online. where they're just like, "What is it. doing to kids' mortality?" And what. Ryan, do you remember the. >> thinking of the vitamin K shot? Oh, was it Yeah, it was it it a shot. Yes, you're right. >> Yeah, cuz vitamin K is an essential. vitamin that we all need. It's a. fat-soluble vitamin. Um, so I think. yeah, there's some there Yes, there is. there are some videos about the vitamin. K shot. So, the vitamin K shot is given. to newborns. Um, and and it's to prevent. vitamin K deficiency bleeding. And so. um, with you newborns don't have.

adequate vitamin K like we do. So, our. bodies our our microbiomes make a bit of. vitamin K and then we get it from our. diet as well. Um, and and what it does. is it's it it it's it plays a essential. role in the clotting cascade. So, it. allows your blood to clot um, if there's. a bleed, so you don't bleed out. >> Oh. >> But, infants don't um, like newborns. don't have that ability because we don't. they don't have adequate vitamin K. And. so, for years and years and I mean. decades forever, um, you know, there. there was no understanding when an. infant would bleed, um, they, you know,

infants would just die and they wouldn't. know why cuz they would have a brain. bleed a lot of them are brain bleeds. And um, what they found is that it's. because they're deficient in vitamin K. up until about 6 months of age when they. can start consuming food themselves um, like solids and strawberry food. >> And that and their microbiome start to. start start to make it. And so, yeah, for the first 6 months of life they're. deficient in vitamin K and so they're at. risk for these this vitamin K deficiency. bleeding. And what was found that if you. just give um, infants a shot of vitamin.

K at birth, it completely prevents I. mean, pretty much completely prevents. vitamin K deficiency bleeding. And so, it's given to all babies because we. can't we there's no way to know babies. would have these bleeds. >> Got it. Got it. >> so, in order to prevent that, you give a. vitamin K shot to these babies. The this. I mean, this shot has been given all. around the world since the 1960s now. So, we have a lot of data to to look at. its safety and it's it's one of I mean, it's incredibly safe shot for newborn. babies. Supplements is the last thing I'll ask.

you about because that has just become I. mean, you you have to you got to wake up. and are you taking your your collagen? Are you taking your lion's mane? Are you. taking your What did you give me that. look when I said lion's mane? Are you. taking your. >> funny. [laughter] But, it's just like. everything has become a supplement. Yeah, your adaptogens and your and and. it's like are you not taking them? And. this is what this free radicals you you. have to stop or invite the free. radicals. I never know which one it is, but.

there's an industry. that's making a lot of money telling. people that they're not getting the. nutrients or the supplements that they. need. >> Yeah. And ironically, by the way, a lot of the people around RFK sell. these supplements and now he's Yeah, and. he's proposing changing a lot of the. laws to. to accommodate their supplements to be. sold. in places where they weren't allowed or. they weren't allowed in the way that. they're trying to What whatever it might. be, but. But, I I see a lot of people going, oh, I I I should should I be taking these.

supplements? Should I should I not be. taking these supplements? What what am I. lacking? What am I What what's your view. on supplements as a nutritionist? Yeah, so I think supplements are an. incredibly. uh, profitable area for a lot of people. So, I. you know, you mentioned that a lot of. people like within RFK's realm really. sell supplements and and that's true. I. mean, the the wellness industry is a. multi-billion dollar hundreds of. billions of dollars industry. It's this. huge massive industry and what you'll. find is a lot of people who are selling. supplements um, will kind of play into.

this narrative like you can't trust big. pharma and you can't trust traditional. medicine because they're out for money. And then they'll turn around and kind of. like sell you all of these supplements. that are is also a very profitable for. money industry, right? And so, it's. interesting that like wellness seems to. kind of like fly under this radar as. this altruistic thing when really I. mean, the the profit that these people. the profit margins are huge on. supplements. And so, they're they're. making a lot of money by getting you to. be like, I don't trust pharma. I don't. trust experts. I'm going to only trust.

like these supplements. And I think it's. really important for people to kind of. identify that playbook that a lot of. people do use. Like don't trust these. industries which by the way, pharmaceutical medications and there are. problems with pharma, don't get me. wrong. We can talk about those, but the. pharmaceutical medications are highly. regulated by the FDA. They have to go through multi-stage. clinical trials to make it to market. And they and then and then stage four. they're they're assessing them when. they're in the market, whereas. supplements do not have to go through. that rigorous process. Supplements. actually have a long history that dates.

back to um, heavy lobbying from the. supplement industry and um, politicians. that were were working with the. supplement industry um, not allowing the. FDA to have that regulatory oversight. that they that they wanted to have. And. so, now supplements don't even have to. show that they're effective um, or safe. before coming to market. And so, we see. that I mean, and we we see issues with. supplements all the time. There's plenty. of issues that um, and and a lot of. liver issues in people as well. And so,

I think when you're thinking about. supplements, I think it's important to. understand that it's a very profitable. market that people want less regulated. than it already is. Right? Whereas. Whereas and it's often times the same. people who are complaining about the. regulation of food additives, but then. don't don't ever mention the lack of. regulation of supplements dietary. supplements. And um, so I it's important to know that it the. how profitable it is because that's the. incentive for people to constantly tell. you that you need these supplements. So,

I think there's a place for supplements. I'm not saying that all supplements. aren't necessary. There's certainly I. mean, there's wonderful supplements like. prenatal supplements and and you know, vitamins and minerals that will directly. like um, directly contribute to removing. deficiencies for people. >> Um, but a lot of the supplements that. are coming out that are like flashy and. exciting, there's not strong data or. evidence to suggest that they're. effective effective at all actually. Um, and so, you know, people can say they'll.

run like even some companies will do. their own clinical trial, right? And. that will be like the one trial and. they'll be this one study that they say. like was super effective. And it's like. nobody critiques that, but then you're. critiquing the pharmaceutical industry. for running clinical trials. It just it. doesn't really make any sense. Um, and. so, you know, just just being aware of. that and being aware that a lot of. supplements are just very expensive. urine at the end of the day. Wow. Uh, Maria, sometimes, you know, I think. you're going to hit it there and then. you take it a step further. Wow. >> [laughter].

>> That was I love that. That's a that's a great way to think of. it. >> AROUND US FOR TOO LONG. >> [laughter]. >> I REALLY REALLY LIKE THAT. OKAY, SO THIS. IS THIS has been a nice. Thank you. This has been a a great pod. >> end? No, no, no. We always end on urine. Always. Golden rule. Golden rule. Always. end. >> Always. on urine. Always. Sometimes? Because you No, you've given [laughter]. us you've given us like a perfect path. to follow here, which is imperfect, which I think makes it perfect. And it's. like.

the the most important ones for me were. if someone's selling you something. and they're telling you about your. health, just be a little skeptical, Mhm. right? Because if they're saying they've. got the solution and they're and they. you they're going to get money from you, be a little bit skeptical. If they start. with fear first. >> If they start with fear, that's the. other one, you know what I mean? They're. killing you. You're killing your kids. Are you hugging your children? You're. killing them. Be skeptical, all right? Uh, another one. that was very important was. just try eat the foods if I heard you. correctly like eat the foods the way.

they look essentially. So, it's like the. beans are the beans and try and get the. bread the bread that is the least. processed and try and get you know, sort. of. right? Portion sizes. This was a good. one as well. Uh, the sugar is sugar, Mhm. right? So, you you're not dodging. it. The sugar sugar just has a different. accent. There's the European sugar that. was like sugar and then this one's like. sugar. Yeah. You get it? But, it's all. sugar. Okay. And also if an expert is. not surrounded by a community of other. experts to take questions that they. don't I like that. I like that. If they.

block you and they don't answer you, then you also know that's that's a. that's a shortcut. I like This is good. This is really good. >> Also when you're growing strawberries in. Utah. Yeah, it might not work out for you. I. would also just say just to kind of like. cap it, the fundamentals of health um, we have really good strong data for them. and and they're pretty basic and pretty. boring. And so, that doesn't play well. to social media algorithms. And so, social media algorithms really. prioritize getting you confused and. getting you to think there's a lot of. like back and forth in the nutrition.

space or in the health space when when. really the fundamentals are are have. been pretty consistent for decades. So, we need to start a TikTok page. where we do all of these things, but. just like advertising. like apples and stuff. Yeah, they should be. We just make it. edgy. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just like we just. go and we make edgy claims. Did you know. they've been hiding apples from you? Apple Do you know there's a secret. ingredient in apples that's good and we. just do this for everything. We could be. the change that we want to see in the. world. This is this is fantastic.

This has been really wonderful. Thank. you. Thank you for taking the time with. two idiots because I think there are so. many in the world. who feel like idiots in the space. >> [music]. >> And then because of that, they don't get. to ask the questions that lead them to. the answers. And I think that's what's. made you so popular online and now in. other spaces as well. So, thank you for. taking the time with us. I appreciate. it. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Don't. forget to throw carrots at your kids'. head. That's another thing we learned. from me. >> [music]. [laughter].

>> This is fun. Thank you so much. Thanks. Nice one. I really had a great time. >> You're good. Aw, thank you. This was so. much fun. You guys are fun. Thank [laughter] you. Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, >> [music]. >> pass it on to a friend. If you didn't. enjoy it, pass it on to your friend. still. Let them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh, if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you.

can [music] chat to us. We will read. through the comments and we'll get into. it. Either way, I appreciate you taking. in time. Thank you for hanging out with. us on What Now. And remember, we do this. for [music] you, so we would like to. hear from you. Till next time. Thank. you.