Dr. Becky: You’re Not a Bad Parent, You’re Overwhelmed

An advisory from the Surgeon General. found nearly half of parents say most. days their stress is completely. overwhelming and when parents are. stressed out it affects their kids. [music]. >> Parenting is a full-time job. You know, we all work, but parenting is hard. >> Parenting is not easy. Never has been, never will be. >> Good Inside, we believe parenting isn't. something you're supposed to just know. It's something you can learn. That's the. one and only Becky [clears throat]. Kennedy, aka Dr. Becky as she's known, also known as the millennial parent. whisper. Many parents love the clinical. psychologist videos and podcasts on.

everything from tantrums to mom rage. She's got more than 4 million followers. across social media platforms. >> And she believes [music] that parents. and children are good inside. >> [music]. >> This is What Now with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods. Market. Eat well for less. >> [music].

>> Dr. Becky, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. I I I told you. right before we started recording, but. I'll tell you again, I don't think. there's a topic. that excites me more. than parenting. Genuinely, genuinely, genuinely, like. like I I followed your your work. Um I think I first became aware of you. like most people during the pandemic. You know, when everyone was forced to be. at home with their actual kids and then. they started realizing that they don't. like them. And you're. >> [laughter]. >> And then your videos became the salve.

Your videos became the reprieve that. parents needed in this time. Um and then. your book has been amazing and. I I I think you know, like where where I. really wanted to get into this. conversation from was. behind the book, behind the titles, behind the social media. is your purpose. And like what do you. think you're trying to change? When you. when you actually get out there and you. go good inside parenting, this is the. relationship you should be having with. your kids so that your kids could have. this relationship with you. What do you.

think your end goal is? I I think. there's probably nothing like. your relationship with your kid. to allow this duality to happen at once, which is we can put better humans into. the world and we can heal so many the. unresolved parts of ourselves so we can. grow at the same time. And so someone. else said this to me and and it's. resonated more than anything I could. come up with myself. She said to me, "Good inside helps, you. know, kind of my kid grow and it helps. me return.".

Oh, wow. >> that's kind of. my and a good inside's purpose. Oh, wow. I love that. Yeah, because often times we we think of. parenting as a one-sided thing. >> Mhm. You know, we think of people being. parents and that's it. We don't often. think about them parenting themselves in. the parenting that they're doling out. Yeah. I mean, I started. you know, early on in my career working. with kids in child therapy. I'm a big. believer in child therapy, play therapy,

all of it. I just found myself thinking that, well, you're with me 45 minutes a week and. then you're with your parents all the. other minutes of the week. >> Yeah. Right? And so whatever I do with. you, if there's if your parents aren't. along for the ride, if they're still. triggered and yelling at you, then this. is a little bit of a drop in the bucket. And so, yeah, if a parent wants to help. their kid or on the surface we always. say we just want to change our kids'. behavior or make them stop whining or. happy your tantrums, whatever it is, it.

brings up so much in us, right? I mean, that's really what happens that. parenting is kind of our best. opportunity I think in adulthood for. growth cuz you're just confronted by. everything that you didn't yet figure. out from your own childhood [laughter]. and it just plays out before your eyes. As a as a parent, how many times. do you experience a tantrum from your. kids where you forget all of the things. that you've taught people? I I mean, innumerable, you know? [laughter] I. mean, I don't I don't know I haven't. been. been too many times to tally, you know? Um. Yeah, I mean, I I I really I've said.

this before. I'll I'll say it again and. I mean it with such honesty that my kids. don't have some Dr. Becky person as a. mom. Yeah. Right? And and I and I also. mean equally that I wouldn't wish that. upon anyone. I mean, we learn the most. in our relationships when people take. responsibility for their behavior, when. people repair. Um I wouldn't want to. deprive my kids of that opportunity and. that's such a part of healthy. relationships. So certainly I have my. moments I can stay calm. A lot of it has. to do with have I been taking care of. myself, you know, am I, you know, doing.

my own personal work? Certainly all of. that contributes to my ability to stay. calm when they're not. And there's other. days and weeks like anyone else when. I've run myself into the ground or, you. know, I said yes to too many people when. inside I really wanted to say no and. then all it takes is my kid whining. about dinner for me to completely lose. it and I lose it on my kid, but but. everything that happened leading up to. that point is really where the story is. Yeah, I love that. I was talking to. Eugene about this like before we came. in. We're chatting about trying to find.

the balance between. who you think you are versus who you. wish to be. and how complicated that is and how. often times the story has been told to. you by somebody else, often times your. parent. Like that's like the first. person in life who tells you Yes. >> who you are. Like they go "You are a bad. kid. You're a naughty kid." Like when I. was reading through your book, I was. thinking, "Man, many of the labels I. even hold of myself. were donated to me. and I just kept them. I I wasn't even.

told there was an option to not have. them. So, if you said, "Trevor, who am. I?" I'd be like, "Oh, I was a naughty. kid and I was mischievous and I was. But that's not necessarily how I saw. myself. Mhm. It's how I was told I was. by the adults in my life. Yeah, I mean, I I often tell parents. this, we're our kids' mirror. So, I. think you're talking about words. Sometimes we tell our kids who they are. through words, but if you're a mirror. for your kid, you're showing them who. they are. And then kids form their. identity by taking that reflection.

And so it's one of the things that's. really powerful for parents to know cuz. let's even say there's two kids in the. family and so easily with two kids there. can be a binary, right? Oh, this kid is. really flexible and generous and this. can be really selfish and why can't you. just be more generous like your brother, whatever it is. >> Yeah. And if you think about what I'm. really doing is I'm saying to my kid, "You are selfish. That's the generous. one." And so I'm showing you in this. mirror, "You're selfish, but I'm acting like. you're going to become more generous.". The math doesn't even work, right? And.

so. if we want to bring out the good inside. our kids, we have to see that version, which people then confuse with. permissiveness. Oh, so everything goes? No, that's definitely not what it means. But if I can't see the good inside my. kid, they they truly, you know, are. going to have a much harder time. accessing it themselves. Which This is. actually a good point, which brings me. to this point actually. I've been. thinking about it a lot in what you're. saying. If parents are the mirrors. to their children, which part does personality of the child.

play in the role of them growing up as. an individual, as a human being who's. going to interact with society. meaningfully? Uh so. personality, temperament, right, definitely very related, but definitely. our kids come into the world with. certain predetermined characteristics. I. mean, I have three kids. I saw that. right away. I If I think about my middle. kid, that child would not take a bottle. from me if she was looking at me. Not joking. I had to face her away.

Wow. As soon as she saw the bottle was from. me, breastfeeding was very difficult, too, she would vomit her food. Like and. I can't even tell you how much this. still represents so much of her. She. likes to do things on her on her own. She doesn't like to depend on people. She actually is such deep need for. people I think that it really scares her. so she almost pushes them away. It It. was there from the start. This is a kid. who wouldn't eat any. um kind of pureed foods because. the only way to get that is to be given.

until with a finger she could. eat it by herself, she wouldn't even eat. anything besides from a bottle that. again she'd only consume facing away. This is a kid also who had huge [snorts]. big feelings from the start. The. separation anxiety started way earlier. The stranger danger so intense. That was. with her right away. Now, then there's a. match between that temperament and the. environment you're in. Right? And I think if I think about my. three kids, you know,

the the match that happens, what is my. kid's temperament, what do they come. into the world with, how able am I to be. the type of environment, you know, for. this child to help them thrive, we're we're better matches or easier, more convenient matches for some of our. kids than others and then it's kind of. that temperament times environment match. that ends up forming a lot of. personality. You. You speak about good inside and. obviously that's that's the you know, the thesis behind your work and the.

book. And there's a there's an anecdote. that you share in the in the book about. being in Target seeing this kid melt. down. Like just a kid throwing a mega. tantrum. We've all seen it. You know, like the throw yourself on the ground, start slamming the ground, drag yourself. along. Like. you paint a vivid vivid picture. And as I'm reading the story, I'm. already judging. I'm like, "Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.". I know this kid. I know this type of. spoiled kid, rotten kid, bad kid, all of. these things. And then you you you have this moment.

where. you know, the the the kid is being told, "You're so bad. You're so bad. You're a. bad kid.". And you break it down differently. You. know, this is one of the first moments. where you talk about like the. instruction. of trying to highlight the good inside a. child. You go I I wrote it down. You. like you go. "You're having such a hard time leaving. Target. I get it. We still have to go. I'm with you.". Now, when I was reading that, I was all. right, I mean, I I sort of see what.

you're saying. But, if a parent says to. a kid, "Hey, we got to go. We got to. leave Target." versus "Hey, you're. having a tough time. I'm with you, but we still got to. leave.". What is the difference? Like, what does. that actually change for the child? >> Yeah, and just for anyone listening, none of us are going to quote say the. right thing all the time. We all have. our moments. There's certainly a time. and a place for, you know, whatever we. have to say to move things along. quickly. But, this phrase that's become in some. way such an embodiment of, I guess, my. philosophy, "You're a good kid having a. hard time.". is such a foundational and such a.

healing phrase because it does something. very profound. It separates identity and. behavior. And I think that's really what. we're talking about, which is as. applicable of an idea to a baby, to a. toddler, to a teen, to an adult, right? We all have behavior we're not proud of. at every age. And what feels awful in a relationship. actually is, especially for a kid. because they're dependent on us for. survival, is being seen as that. behavior. Everything collapses in that. moment. My kid is the tantrum. My kid is.

the selfishness. My kid is the. entitlement. And then what happens. emotionally for us is our kid becomes. our enemy. That's just what happens. It's me against you. You are the enemy. You are the problem. I'm on one side. You're on the other side. You are the. problem and I then interact with you. like that's true. Versus. hold on a second. I have a good kid. It's just always true. I think that is. always true. I have a good kid meaning. their identity, what's inside is good. And that's kind of over here and I like.

using my hands to make a visual. And. over here can be a whole range of bad. behavior. A tantrum, you know, lying to your face, saying I hate you, saying "You're the. worst mom ever. You do nothing for me.". after getting back from, you know, I. don't know, an amusement park where you. took your kid where you don't even want. to go in the [laughter] first place, right? This is what happens. So, [snorts] seeing your kid. as a good kid having a hard time leads. leads to a profoundly different pathway. than looking at them like they're a bad. kid doing bad things. You know, that.

what you've just tapped into is the. reason I was so excited to have this. conversation. is if you read this book. and you think to yourself, "Oh, no, I. don't have kids." or "It's not about. me." or I think you're missing. the core idea. It's sort of going to the. very roots of who we all are as human. beings. Cuz when I read through this. story, I went, "How many times have each. of us or any of us been in a. relationship where someone says, "This. is who you are.". >> Mhm. You know, you're an inconsiderate. person. You're a terrible partner. You know what.

I mean? Like, these are the things that. people say to each other. And I don't know, you know, about. everyone, but I I don't think most. people feel like this is the moment. where they want to show up. They want to. spend more time defending themselves and. they feel like they're not on the same. team. Well, now we're talking about. something really big. We're talking. about the collapse of curiosity. The collapse of curiosity. >> Collapse of curiosity. As soon as I've. never I I said that phrase as if it's. like something I have philosophy about. I haven't really thought about it. before, but that's what I think. That's what you're talking about because. when you see someone in a workplace.

who's late 5 days in a row. Hey, I need. you to be on time tomorrow. We have a. big meeting and they're late. What's the. narrative in our head? Oh my goodness, this person is so rude. They're so. inconsiderate or whatever we say. We're. no longer. curious. We have no curiosity. Curiosity. would say, "I wonder what's going on? I. I do have history with Trevor. He. doesn't tend to be late to his own. podcast 5 days in a row. I wonder what's. happening for him." And And then what. happens, and this happens more now than. ever, is we confuse curiosity with.

allowing or approval. No, those are. totally different concepts. But, if we. don't allow ourselves to be curious. about behavior, we can't understand it. If we can't understand it, we actually. can't improve it. So, if we get to this. tantrum in a grocery store, right? Because my goal with parents, too, it's. not like, "Oh, you have a good kid. having a tantrum. That's so beautiful.". No, I I don't want like a million. tantrums in. >> [laughter]. >> Target. It's not like a convenient. situation. No, let your anger out. So. beautiful. Obviously not. I'm like a.

normal person, okay? But, it's actually. just more efficient to be curious, okay? Because if I can be curious in the. moment, first of all, I'm not going to. let my kid just have this disaster. situation. I might have to say to. myself, "This stinks. I'm not going to. be able to check out my car. I'm going. to have to leave and come back." That's. just inconvenient. And parenting is full. of inconveniences. It just is. So, I'm. going to say to my kid, after trying, let's say, to calm them down, "Look, you're a good kid having a hard time. Something's going on. I'm picking you. up. I'm carrying you to the car. We'll come back and get, you know,

whatever we were going to get another. day." My kid's going to protest. They're. not going to say, "Thank you for your steady leadership. Really appreciate this." They're. definitely not going to say that. I'm. going to continue doing my job and get. my kid to the car. And then maybe after. my kid's sleeping, again, curiosity. would allow me to say, "Okay, well, what's going on for my kid? Okay, well, I guess we're walking down the aisle and. they see a million toys that they want. and I told them we're here for one. I guess it's really hard for them to see. a lot of things they want and not have. them. Well,

you know, I don't even know that many. adults that are great at seeing a lot of. things that they want and not having. them. What skills might my kid need to be able. to see things, want them and not have. them? Because wanting things isn't. wrong. I would actually say, I always. want my kid to want things for. themselves. I just want them to develop. the ability to want, not have, and cope. with that, right? But, that that's a. skill that takes time. Now, let's keep. going, right? Maybe one day I have a. little time in my hands. I say, "Yeah,

that's hard." Well, how do I get better. at hard things? Practice. That's how we. get better at swimming. No kids learn to. swim by just crossing our fingers, right? We bring them to lessons. And so, maybe say "That's hard. Look, we're. going to do something kind of weird. today. We're going to be in our playroom. and you're going to see those red blocks. and I'm going to play with them first. and we're going to take a deep breath. and say, >> [gasps]. >> "Waiting is hard and I can do it." Like, I don't know, a little mantra, right? And And I know it's so easy. I think. that takes so much time. I promise you, managing tantrums without developing.

skills is going to take way more time. Yeah. But, that whole process or even. just thinking about it differently comes. from being able to have a gap between. having a good kid. and seeing their bad behavior. Identity. and behavior being separate. And that. gap is what allows for curiosity at any. age. It's interesting that you just. brought up the putting the time in now. versus putting the time in later because. my my first thought when I think of what. I've heard most parents say. >> Mhm. when they hear anything like this,

a lot of them they'll go, "I don't have. the time for this. That's easy for you. to say.". You know what I mean? You know, every. time I can But, what you just said was. so key, though. We don't calculate the. time that each of those tantrums is. taking. That's right. And so, we negate. the investment that we would be putting. into a child. by trying to deal with it and build up. the skills and the tools. That's exactly. right. And I I don't have a lot of time, either, want to be honest. Like, I don't. have like 30 minutes a day that I'm like. teaching my kids skills. That's not how. long it takes. But, in life, for.

anything, you tend you tend to spend. time kind of preparing Yeah. or. reacting. And whatever way you spend. time, you don't mentally account for it. as time. If you spend a lot of time. reacting, you don't think of it as time. >> No. Although also, you go to bed. probably feeling awful about yourself. You wake up at 2:00 a.m. being like, "Oh, this stinks." You're just up for an. hour in the middle of the night. It's. actually a lot of time. Where you're. going to spend a couple minutes with. your kid before they go to bed, a lot of. these things can take 90 to 120 seconds,

right? It's not like I do this with my. kid. We have some profound conversation, you know? >> What What would those What would those. 90 seconds be? Okay. Give me an example. Like, so let's say you've had the Target. meltdown. Your kid was in the store. They lost They lost it. I mean, they. just went crazy. They were rolling. around. They were doing things. You had. to carry them out while they were. screaming like you were kidnapping them. You get them home. Yeah. You know, your. day has been rough. What are those 90. seconds going. >> I would say that day is you're done for. the day. Like, there there's no. learning, lecturing that should happen. You're activated. You're probably. resentful of your kid. Your job is just.

to manage that. Let's say it's now the. next day. Again, you have to start from a place of. curiosity. What's going on for my kid? I. actually think if we think of it like. swimming, what skill is my kid missing? That's a really helpful question. It's. probably the skill of Again, maybe it's. wanting and not having. Something like. that. >> Cuz they were drowning essentially in. this moment. >> drowning. Okay. But, also, they didn't. they've never learned how to cope with. that moment. They don't just get gifted. it at age seven or age 27, frankly. You. don't get gifted those skills, either. So, one, a story.

Immediately when you make something a. story that you struggled with, you're. going to make the moment less explosive. for your kid the next time. Because as. soon as your kid feels less alone in a. struggle, you reduce shame. And when you reduce. shame, you make things less explosive. Seriously, the next day at over. breakfast, I might say, "I don't know if I ever told you this. I remember going to a grocery store with. my dad. and he told me I could get a Milky Way. And I really wanted a Milky Way and a. Twix.

and Reese's and a Hershey bar and a 100. Grand. How do you think I handled that? And. this is the best moment if you have a. kid who's verbal. They'll say something. like, "You probably just got one thing. and like went on." And you could say, "No. No. I. had a little bit of a situation." You. know, something like that, right? "Oh, you did?" Yeah, I mean, it's. it's really hard to see things you want. and not have them. I would say that's you're done for the. day. Now, in that moment when you're.

telling a story, do not look at your kid. after and saying, "Just like it is for you." YOU KIND. >> [laughter]. >> YOU RUIN. LIKE, WHENEVER I HEAR A PARENT DO THAT, I'M LIKE, "Just. >> Well, well, YOU TWO MONTHS AGO. >> [laughter]. >> JUST LIKE THAT. I'M NOT GOING TO LIE. I THOUGHT THAT'S. how the story ends. >> No. No, I thought that I thought it was. going [laughter] to be that thing. I. thought you'd turn and be like, "And you. see, Eugene, Right. remember when you. did that?". >> Exactly. No, you take it out of like the. referee. Just like allow it. Trust that. it helps. Another thing, let's say that. day you have to take your kid grocery. storing,

going to the grocery store. You could. say to your kid, this is such a powerful. one, so simple. I wonder what it's going. to be like to be at Target today. I wonder if you're going to see. something you want. and I'm going to say no. Oh, what would that be like? And again, if you have a kid like most kids, they're going to roll your eyes and say. nothing. Fine, don't take the bait. I. don't know about for you. That might. feel annoying. I don't know. Let's just. get ourselves a little bit ready for. that. This is true for adults, too. So much of. how we feel hard moments is the feeling.

and the surprise of the feeling. And if. you remove the surprise, you're left. with just the feeling. And that actually makes the feeling a. lot easier to cope with because you're. no longer feeling disappointed or. jealous and feeling surprised. It. doesn't feel kind of like an attack to. you. Same thing is true with adults. Hey, we're going to have dinner with. friends. Look, I'm making this up, but we're having a. hard time getting pregnant. I'm just. going to tell you in advance. I know our. friends are I don't know, 7 months. pregnant. It might be a little hard. And. like let's just both get ready. We're.

happy for them. We're kind of having a. hard time. Totally makes sense that it's. going to be a little bit of a tricky. dinner. People handle that a lot better. than if they show up and they're Yeah. surprised by a situation. So, removing. the surprise is one thing you could do. that again takes, I don't know, 90. seconds in advance and makes the. situation more manageable. So, here's here's my thing that I. struggle with as a parent. How much of. me parenting is just me giving out. advice and modeling the behavior that I. want to see and how much of it is.

conditioning. Cuz I'll give you an. example. When I was growing up, I had. four siblings. I was number three or. four. My. my older brother was what was deemed the. naughty one. But it's not like he slept. without food. He had a bedroom to go to. So, his behavior was. almost set as if it was part of him. But. my mom always said one thing to me when. I was growing up. He's like, "If there's. one thing. that I know about you is I never have to. worry about you. Not at the store, not when we go visit. other people. You, I never.

But you, I never. >> [laughter]. >> But you, I. I never have to worry about and I. as I grew up and I realized I tried to. be less of a problem to people than I. need to be. Yep. Right? So, I'm thinking. to myself, was I parented that way or. was I conditioned to be that way? Well, now we're talking about birth order, which is such a fun topic. And. I'm going to answer your question by. probably answering neither of your. questions. But tell me if it's useful.

anyway cuz I think it's getting to the. core. I think about this as you're in a. system. You're in a system of siblings. Siblings are systems, marriages are. systems, workplaces are systems, whole. families are systems. I think it's. helpful to think about in any system, there's only 100%. of a quality to go around. So, there's an infinite number. Well, let's say there's only 100%. >> it a finite number? Okay. So, there's 100% of acting out. Right. and naughtiness to go around, which by the way is often a kid's way of.

just learning how to feel their feelings. and they don't yet have skills to manage. those feelings, so it's all coming out. So, it seems like in your family system, the message was your brother. owns 100% of that. He has time share to. the [laughter] to the tantrum holiday. home. Literally. So, there is 0% left. for you to pick up. Right? Now, one of the struggles with that is. usually it's helpful as we become older. in life. to not have a lot of rigidity. Like no. one wants to have 100% of any quality.

You don't want to have 100% of acting. out, but you also don't want to have. zero. Because if you have 0% of that, one of. the things you tend to learn over time. is my job is to scan every room. and figure out what everyone needs from. me and keep things very, very peaceful. And often the cost of doing that to such. an extreme can be some self-abandonment. Like I don't really know what I want or. sometimes I feel like I want something. even if it'll rock the boat a little bit. or maybe I have to distance myself from.

my anger because it would come out in a. big way and that's kind of my brother's. role. And so, I think what what you're. saying is so much of your childhood was. shaped by these sibling dynamic roles. that were kind of part of birth order. Mhm. And [clears throat] probably part. of our adulthood, I think, is realizing. and you were kind of saying this, too. The lessons we learned in our early. years. and the ways we had to adapt to keep us. safe. were really protective back then and.

just really impressive and adaptive, but can in many different ways work a. little bit against us sometimes in. adulthood. How many of our romantic partners are we. finding ourselves ourselves as the other. person parenting? How many of our romantic partners? Like. are we parenting our romantic partners? >> ourselves parenting more or do we find. ourselves enjoying the fruits of how. they were parented? Does it make sense? Um so, if someone is really great to me,

Mhm. am I reaping the rewards of how. great they were raised and how. well-rounded they are as an individual, but if let's say for example, I'm. dealing with their tantrums, they're. trying to take this, they're trying to. give that, they're trying to do that. Right. Am I now fulfilling the role of a. parent cuz they didn't have 100% time. share of the tantrum. holiday home? >> Maybe, but I think I think we're I think. we're talking about well, how do we end. up with the people we end up with, which to me. who we end up being attracted to in our.

kind of adult life is in some ways just. an activation of our earliest attachment. patterns. It's what feels like home. And. so, if what feels like home based on. your childhood is, okay, I've become. really expert at keeping things. peaceful, never getting in trouble, being really, really stable because. again, my brother had 100% of all the. other things. Well, if that's my puzzle. piece, what other puzzle piece would be a.

really, really good match with mine? Probably someone where there's a lot of. stuff going on. >> Oh, wow. 100% chaos. 100% chaos because. that actually feels like home to you. And you know how to be in a. relationship. >> You know how to be the counter balance. to that chaos. >> Yeah, it's. attraction is more about familiarity. than it's about anything else. And if. you're privileged enough to have an. early attachment style. that is actually in line with the adult.

relationship you would want. >> Yeah. Like I used to always say to my. clients in private practice, that's like. an amazing privilege cuz then when you. have that first couple dates and you're. like, oh, I just feel like there's this. magic, that can be an amazing sign. I. can tell you with a lot of the adults I. worked with, they would say, "I'm. actually learning. that who I'm initially attracted to is. almost my best warning sign. Like I. can't go on a second date with that guy. I just almost know. how it's going to end. That that becomes. almost the reason to say no.

That is it's so interesting when you. when you break it down, you know, to the. child level and then bring it back. because it it feels like all of it is a. slingshot. It feels like our childhood. is a slingshot into adulthood and then. it becomes exponentially larger because. of the effect that we have on the world. and the the agency we have over our own. lives. And like you you have this line. where you say, "A tantrum is just a. nervous system that is. short-circuiting.". And. when I when I thought of that with a. child, it sort of made more sense.

>> Yeah. But then with adults, you see it and it. has so much more of an effect on people. cuz if you're a child throwing a. tantrum, maybe it's you flailing in a. supermarket. If you're an adult having a. tantrum, you might walk into a. supermarket and shoot everybody. Do you. Do you know what I mean? So, when you when you look at it through the. lens of like a parent and a child in. that moment, what is the nervous system. that we're trying to repair in that. moment and what are we trying to allow. and how do you even find that balance? Like how much do you let and how much do. you not? Because I've seen people.

who are really repressed or they've. they've they'll tell you, "I was in the. strictest household and I never threw a. tantrum and I never this and I" But then. they have like a secret life. Yep. You. know, so so how do you how do you as a. parent then know what the balance is? Do. you ever know? So, look, in any given moment, I don't. know if we ever, you know, have complete. clarity of like, you know, this is the. perfect intervention. But. I think we're really talking about what. a parent's job is, right? And I think. this is like a very core idea that can.

be applied in a bunch of different. scenarios. We're not making it up each. time, right? Because most parents I. know, they want to do their job well. It's the job they care the most about, but parenting in general has been like. having a job without a job description. Because when I ask parents, okay, well, what is your job when your kid's having. a tantrum? Mhm. >> "I have no idea." Well, how can you do. your job well in any specific scenario. if at baseline you don't even know what. your job is. So, I think a parent has. two main jobs all the time. And it's. boundaries and validation. Boundaries.

are limits we set. They're limits we. set. They're decisions we make often for. a kid's long-term benefit. It's kind of. like the structure a kid grows up with. around things can only go so far. Not. because I'm not going to let you win, but actually related to the fact that, and this is very important, my number. one job is to keep you safe. Mhm. >> Now, that's been. I think something shifted in the last. decade or two where we've confused. safety with comfort. Safety does not mean comfortable and.

happy and optimized all the time, but. safe. It's not safe for you to run. around Target. taking things from the wall and. I don't know, throwing them to the. ground. It's not safe for you to throw. sand in the sandbox at kids. It's not. safe for you to watch endless hours of. TV or be on your iPad. Those things just. aren't safe. So, we have to set. boundaries. There are limits. And a kid. always has the same reaction to a. boundary. They're upset. They have a tantrum, you. know? Throw a tantrum tends to be a. phrase I don't love cuz it almost seems.

like it's this active like yeah, like. mischievous kid being like I'm going to. throw. >> a little boomerang that thing will throw. off. Yeah, it's just like this, you. know, it's I think tantrums are when or. any bad behavior or just when feelings. are greater than skills. Oh. That's all. Oh, I like that's that's a good one. Any. bad behavior is when feelings are. greater than skills. At any age. Oh, I really like that. >> Right? And for decades we've kind of. punished feelings or punished behaviors, but the answer is to level up skills, which never happens when you're. punished. So, when you're in that situation,

let's let's. go deeper into into this world. You have this child and you're having. this experience with them. How do you then cuz I love that you. brought up safety cuz the first thing I. thought of was like especially like. black parents particularly almost. everywhere in the world I can show you a. black parent who has said to their child. at some point a version of if I don't. kill you, the cops are going to kill. you. Or if I don't beat you, the world. is going to beat you. Or if I like. they're going I need to keep you safe.

Yeah, rather me. Yep. They always say. that. Rather me. If if I don't do this, it's going to be way worse when you get. out there. Mhm. How do you then. how do you imbue your child with that. knowledge when they're at an age where. they maybe don't understand it because. you know, on the one hand you're saying. you're good inside. Mhm. But I'm. assuming you also want to let the child. know that this is not how society deals. >> will see you that way. >> Yeah, like how do you how do you how do. you do that without telling them that. they're bad? How do you say to them, hey, this is you'd be considered a.

criminal, man. Is like the best way to. put it. With Japan Yeah, you can roam. free. >> [laughter]. >> WITH CONFIDENCE? NO. YEAH, BUT IT'S LIKE. HOW DO YOU say like I don't think you're. a criminal, but this is criminal. behavior is is a good way to put it. How. do you how do you do that? >> Well, let's I don't know. Let's have. some example. Let's say my kid is. hitting another kid on a playdate, something like that, right? Or on the. playground maybe even more public, right? Let's start with the job and then. we'll talk about the nuance cuz the. nuance you're talking about is very real. and very important, right? And not not.

all kids are seen the same way, Yeah. >> right? And so I think you're also asking. if you have awareness as a family, my. kid won't be seen in a positive light in. the world, do I. mimic that behavior in my home? Or do or. does my home have to offer something. different to that child? Mhm. Okay, so. let's just say my kid is hitting. If I. think about boundaries and validation. just as foundational. Boundaries would. be saying to a kid, I won't let you hit. your sister. I'm not going to let you. hit your friend. And let's say I'm on. the playground, I would literally take. my kid and pull them away. This is.

probably the number one thing I've seen. done very differently by parents and I. urge them to realize a boundary is not. saying. stop hitting. We don't hit. Those are requests. Yeah. Right? And. again, if you're not hitting your kid, they know we don't hit. So, um but it's. kind of like we're saying to a kid, I'm. watching you unable to control yourself. and make a good decision. So, my best. intervention is going to ask you to make. a good decision. Like it confuses kids. They act out more because they don't. have an adult. They don't actually have.

anyone keeping them safe. And so a. boundary often is physical, which. doesn't mean it comes from a place of. harm. It actually comes from a place of. protection. It's something I do to. protect my kid because they're not being. safe. Going back to being a mirror, I. don't want my kid to experience. themselves as the kid who hits everyone. on the playground. That's not good for. them to build their identity. So, I'm. going to stop them and pull them to the. park bench. Not like you're embarrassing. me, what's wrong with you, but hey, you're a good kid having a hard time and. no, I'm not going to let you go back to. the sandbox. I still see that you're so. activated. Now I'm on the bench with my.

kid. And again, this is a made-up scenario. Who knows if I'd actually have the. presence of mind. But then. >> [laughter]. >> let's say it's a good day in the studio. without my. >> Good day. Good day in Japan. And in. Japan. >> [laughter]. >> I guess it always happens there. I still. learn more. Got to learn got to drink. what they're drinking. >> [laughter]. >> Um so, let's say I'm sitting with my. kid. I've done this job. I've set a. boundary, right? Now I can do the other. part of my job, which is some version of. ah there was only one red shovel. Ah, it. was. so hard to wait for that red shovel. Yeah. Um validating the struggle that.

was underlying. the behavior. I'm validating the feelings. Yeah, it. makes sense you're mad. He was playing. with your red shovel. I'm not going to. let you hit. That's why we're taking a. break here. But kids can't learn to. manage feelings they don't think they're. allowed to have. If you think about what it means to. manage a feeling, it means I'm allowed. to have this feeling inside my body. >> it first. Wow. >> Yeah, it's allowed to live in my body. And if you don't feel like a feeling is. allowed to live in your body, there's. two options. You try to suppress it or.

it comes out in behavior. Oh, wow. >> And then coming out behavior. actually is like well, you told me I'm. not supposed to feel angry. So, I'm just. trying to. get it out, right? Through a hit, through your extremities, through I hate. you. Okay, so now let's say I'm back. home with my kid and I'm thinking I'm. like me, I have white children like. like this is bad news in a different. way, Yeah. >> right? And I'm more fearful, right? About what this need means for my I. don't know, black child. I think and. again, this is probably not happening. with like a two-year-old. I don't know.

about the nuance of the conversation, but. these are conversations, you know, that. I think are important. Look, I'm always going to be on your team. My. job is to help keep you safe. and. not everyone is going to give you the. benefit of the doubt. Mhm. Oh. >> This is this is something we're going. this is not like a one-and-done. conversation, but yeah. And so in our. home, probably you know what? We're. going to have to like practice certain. in my mind skills. even more. We're going to have to manage.

certain realities. You're going to have. a lot of feelings about the fact that. you're looked at when you're walk down. the when you're walking down the street. very differently than some of your. friends, right? And I'm going to be. someone you can come to. to talk to you about that. It's. acknowledging the unfairness of the. world and basically saying to them, hey, I know that your world will not treat. you fairly, Mhm. but I want you to know. that I'm always going to treat you. fairly. Mhm. And I think that's like. that's a slight difference cuz. speaking from personal experience, I. don't think my mom necessarily said that.

to me, but I think that might have been. her intention, but she was going I can't. let you she's like I I have to keep you. safe. by doing this before they do it to you. because they won't know when to stop. And that's often what she says. She's. like, you'll get killed, you know? But it's interesting to think. of it this way is to say the world's not. going to be fair to you. I will always be fair to you, so you. have to trust me in this. But but And I. don't I don't just I like. I don't want to claim to be some like.

expert in parenting black children. Like. that is the like you know, like that is. not my lived experience. >> [laughter]. >> I mean that. Like I really do, you know? And I feel like along those lines, >> Yeah. you know, I think about friends of. mine, colleagues like within the Good. Inside community. There's this amazing. woman Myisha Tiel who, you know, we talk. a lot about these. She leads. Right. >> what is this line? And these ideas make. sense and they feel very different from. how I was brought up and I feel like my. son some ways like needs these skills. and needs to understand how to regulate. his emotions. The stakes are even.

higher. Huh. And Becky, like you don't. walk around with the same fears as I do. and that plays out in my responses. And. so yes, so I think but this is that is I. guess just a different framework. >> Right. But every parent is raising their. kids from the because depending on where. you are like you'll come to South Africa. and now your child black is the. majority, you know, you'll be so it's. it's you're always raising your child. within the system that they exist within. whether you like it or not. Don't go [music] anywhere cuz we got. more what now after this.

Whole Foods Market makes holiday hosting. simple with delicious prepared dishes, must-have ingredients, and gifts that. are just as thoughtful as the food. And. look, I'll be honest with you. Every. holiday season I tell myself, this year, Trevor, this year you're going to cook. something. And every year I absolutely do not. because the holidays sneak. up on you. One minute you're still. finishing the Halloween candy and the. next someone's asking you, "So, are you.

going to bring a signature dish?". Signature? So, I've developed a system, a Trevor. holiday system. I go to Whole Foods. Market, I buy everything, and then I. behave like I made it myself. I walk in. with confidence. That's the key. Chest. out. Confidence and a nice bowl. You. see, if you put something in a bowl, people assume you cooked it. It's. science. And Whole Foods makes it too. easy. The heat and eat dishes, guys. Creamy mashed potatoes, green beans, stuffing, all the classics. All you have.

to do is warm it up, transfer it into. your own dish, and suddenly you getting. compliments like, "Wow, Trevor, you. really brought this this year?" Yes, I. did bring it. And that's technically. true. And the desserts, how guys, let me. tell you something. The holiday rum. cake, ho ho ho Oh my goodness, the tres. leches. Those desserts look like they. require childhood trauma, a French. grandmother, and 12 hours of your life. Nope, I bought it all at Whole Foods, carried it in, put it on the table, and. I let the lies flow. Someone said,

"Trevor, this is incredible. What's your. recipe?" And I said, "You know, a chef. never tells." Because in this case, the. chef doesn't know. Because the real chef. was Whole Foods. And if you're. responsible for the main course, I mean, they've got spiral cut ham, bone-in rib. roast, heavy hitters. One year I showed. up with king crab legs. People were. silent. They were stunned. They weren't. really impressed. They were confused. because nobody expects king crab at. Thanksgiving, but it tasted good, so. they got over it. And to round everything out, I grab 365. by Whole Foods Market staples, green.

beans, stuffing, dinner rolls, the. fundamentals. The 365 brand is basically. how I fill the table without filling my. stress levels. And here's the part. people don't think about, the gifts. Whole Foods Market. has cookie gift boxes, beauty gift sets, candles, flowers. I even built a cheese. board as a present. Yeah, not the board, the cheese on top of it. It's one of. those gifts that looks thoughtful, but. it's really just cheese that's put in. the shape of something. People love it. So, yeah, my holiday hack is really. simple. Whole Foods Market does the.

work. I take the credit. Everybody wins. And. honestly, that's what the holidays are. about. Good food, happy people, and lies. told with love. Shop for everything you need at Whole. Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. >> [music]. >> When I heard you were coming, I was. particularly excited because one, I. wanted to ask you, do you have a visa? I.

know you don't need a visa, passport to. come to South Africa. So, you can live. at our house for a little bit because I. think we [laughter] need you. I'm I'm in. Give me some dates. Well, my question. is, and I've I've often had to struggle. with this as a male, single parent raising a daughter. I sometimes feel insecure about what I. might be missing out in imparting to. her. Is there a study that's conducted to. show what the difference is between kids. that grow up being raised by a single.

parent who's the same gender as them. versus the opposite gender? Ugh, I wish I was given this question as a. little bit of prep because I wish I. could You know, 16 years ago, that's. what I would have laughed. >> [laughter]. >> Um, but but the thing I want to latch. onto that you said. I I don't know I'm sure there is some. study. I can't recite it right now, but. to me what you said is so poignant as as. an amazing initial conversation with.

your daughter. This is something I think. about. You are. a girl being raised by a single father. That allows us some amazing special. moments that would never happen if our. family system was different. And I'm. sure it also means not having other. moments because of that exact same. configuration. And. if you ever feel like there's things. you're missing, and if you ever feel. angry rationally or irrationally about. it, like. I'll always listen. Not to prove, not to.

disprove, just to listen. And I can hear. that from you. Right? I mean, to me. sometimes that's, you know, an opening. for a conversation that could be more. powerful than something we learn from a. research study. I've often found that whenever we have. we've had actually that conversation, what I found is it made her open up more. to me. And she is now aware that not all her. friends see their fathers the same way. Their fathers are the enforcers. Right.

>> They're the ones who get things done. They're the ones that, you know, if If. you Hey, if that guy comes back and this. is not done, You know, it's it's funny that It's. funny you say that. Sorry to No, no, no, go ahead. it's funny you say that. because I've actually come to realize. and we we we sort of had a conversation. around this, you know, in some of the. other episodes, is often times it's easiest to spot the. gaps in the situation that we live. within. Mhm. And then it makes us feel. like there are no gaps in other. situations. But to your point,

I can relate to that as well where I. grew up in a world thinking like, "Oh, man, you know, I didn't live with my. father and so what did this mean? And it. would have been better.". Until I met people who went, "My father terrified me and and, you. know, I I don't even know what a hug. feels like and I didn't grow up in a. soft household and I don't know how to. express my emotions and I don't know.". And then I realized, "Oh, wow, you you. always unless you like super kids." And. even then, by the way, I met I met. someone I met a few people, but there's.

one that really sticks out to me. Someone who complained saying. they resent the fact that their parents. were so perfect because they feel like. it didn't prepare them for an imperfect. world. Mhm. Mhm. And I remember going, "Wait, what did you just say?" And they're. like, "Yeah, I I'm not street wise. I. don't know how to handle like chaos. I. Because everything was just. everyone in the world doesn't match up. with with what I grew up with. So, it's. it's interesting that you say that as. like a as a realization. Well, I feel. like I saw a lot of those kids.

who were in their 20s in my practice who. I to me the word perfect for that is an. interesting word choice anyway, but. parents who swooped in at every second. and always optimizing for happy and. ease. Um, and not surprisingly, those. kids not only are not prepared for a. difficult world, are remarkably fragile. and anxious because the range of. experiences they learned to cope with. was this. >> Yeah. Yeah. versus the range of. experiences you need to learn to cope. with in childhood to be resilient and. functioning as an adult is this. Now,

I'm not trying to say it's this, maybe. wider is. trauma and abuse, right? But certainly. there's a lot between that and always. happy, always perfect. That's that's. really dangerous for kids in a different. way. So, how do you how do you find that. balance? Like let's let's use the. sandbox example. You know, cuz I love that you brought. that up. We we had um we had Jonathan. Haidt on the podcast. And you know, he. was talking about his book, The Anxious. Generation. And we we were talking about. the complexities of society. overprotecting kids and underprotecting.

kids. You know, so now we live in a. world where children are overprotected. in real life and underprotected on. online. Yes. You know? >> Yes. And. >> is best lines. It's so good. So good. It nails it. And in the. conversation, even as we're having it. now, you go there's so many. complexities. Like I I for instance will. walk past playgrounds in New York or. wherever and. I'll see how the parents are looming. over their kids. >> Yes. Every conflict is interrupted. Every I.

mean, even the idea of a skirmish before. it even happens. >> Yeah. is intercepted by the parent to go, "Hey, there's only one shovel. You Now, you will each play with it like this.". And I And I always say for me, it always. feels like a like a prison yard more. than a playground. >> Yeah. Because it doesn't feel like the kids. are solving their own issues. It doesn't. feel like they're developing their own. traits. It doesn't feel like So, I'd. love to know how you how you think of. that balance because you're you're a. parent. You're seeing your kids punch. someone or your kid is being punched. How many punches before you step in? Yeah. Do you go like my kid takes four.

shots and then I'm in? Or is it one? >> [laughter]. >> Or is it like No, I'm serious. Like how. do you know how many shots your kid gets. to take before. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. How do you figure THAT OUT? WELL, FIRST. OF ALL, this starts so far before the. sandbox. That just is the public. representation of so much that is or. isn't happening in a kid's home. >> Oh. >> Right? I mean, how a kid acts on a. playground, but by the way, I'm not. saying it's representative of everything. a kid is, but in general, the themes are. much bigger than a playground. What is a. kid expected to do for themselves,

right? How. how much in the home, if there's let's. say two siblings, is it, "Well, we have. two of every item, so kids are never. arguing about things." That would be a. horrible policy, right? I mean, you want. your kids' early life to prepare them. for adulthood. Like that's what I always. tell parents, like to be very long-term. greedy about parenting. Right? We want. >> Long-term greedy. >> Long-term greedy. Right? And so, there's. a dance though. And to me, safety is. usually the line.

Physical, you know, kind of physicality, someone hitting another kid on the. playground, I'm not going to wait for. that to happen four times. I just think. I'm probably again, if I have a kid who. can get physical, I might even say we're going to do. certain things at home to get ready. Let's practice. Let's even I might be. closer to my kid on the playground in. that situation just so they don't. experience themselves as out of control. But I actually don't think that's what's. happening the majority of the time. The. majority of the time, I think these days. we're seeing parents just remove any.

friction or discomfort. That to me is. really the problem. So, let's say. there's three kids. Again, there's. always three red shovels because Bobby. doesn't like blue anymore and so. everyone has to have red. Yeah. Again, if there's a parent listening who's. like, "Should I not have three red. shovels?" That's one example, but that. just shouldn't be like the. representation of, you know, your whole. parenting approach. We want kids It. sounds bad. You want kids to be. frustrated. You want kids to be. disappointed. You want kids to be. jealous. Unless.

forever as a parent you're going to. remove those feelings from their. existence for the rest of their life, again, you can't develop coping skills. for feelings you've never experienced. Like it doesn't happen, right? And so, the playground might be a bad example. because if that's the first place you're. letting your kid develop coping skills, it it they're probably going to get over. activated. But let's even say, you know, it's it's smaller environment, not as. over stimulating, let's say, as your.

house, right? Maybe your kid has a. friend over for a playdate and they're. hoarding every single item. Now, it's. not going to be fun, okay? But I'm. saying, before this kid has a playdate, I might say, "Look, it's hard to share. toys. It's true. And when we have. friends over, we allow everyone to use. toys. Let me tell you, no one will take. a toy after. You'll get all the toys back. And part. of my job is to help you figure this. out. Maybe I'll say something like, 'I. know you have that really special Lego. set. Let's put that away. I understand.

you're working on it. You don't want. someone to touch it.' After that, part of my job on this playdate is going. to be to help you share. Which means if you're playing with the. fire truck and Bobby starts playing with. the police car that by the way you've. never played with for four years and. only care about when Bobby touches it, I. am actually going to step in to help. Bobby keep playing with that. Now, a. parent hears that. What that means, and. this is going to be awful if this is the. first time, I'm going to spend the. playdate with my kid in another room. managing their tantrum while Bobby.

randomly is at my house playing with a. police car with nobody because his. friend is freaking out. Like And And to. be clear, parents are like, "Do you. enjoy that? No, of course that's a. completely unenjoyable situation for. Bobby, my kid, and for me. But, if I'm. not laying the groundwork for my kid, if. I can't be. less afraid of my kids feelings. than he is, then he is not going to be able to learn. how to manage his feelings. Cuz again, if we think about feelings and skills, kids are born with all the feelings and.

none of the skills. So, if by the time they're five, they've. never had to like share or wait. Waiting, that's the thing with my kids, I'm like, waiting is a thing. It's a. thing, we're going to learn it, we're. going to practice it. Even in 2025, he. has to wait for the police car. Well, guess what happens when you wait? You're frustrated, you're maybe focused. on the other thing. And if you have all those feelings. without any of the experience or skills, the feelings are going to come out as I. need that truck and I'm going to whine. Well, if I can't tolerate.

my kids frustration, >> [snorts]. >> how can they learn to tolerate it? Cuz. they'll wire their frustration. next to my frustration. Which, it should. be obvious to everyone, then the next. time they're frustrated, they're going. to have double the frustration. Right. So, I have to, and this is called. co-regulation, I have to be able to regulate my own. feelings in the face of my kids. distress, and they truly do take in kind.

of that calm, and over time they learn, oh, I can manage this situation, too. Right? And so, I think when we're. talking about the playground, if that's. not happening in the home, you better. bet my kids not sharing a red shovel, right? And so, yes, I think a lot of. this really has to do with as parents, not just overprotection, because I know John Hay, like, it's all. about also the way we don't let our kids. be independent. Right? That's I agree. with that. But, I actually think it. starts internally. We we kind of are.

overprotective of their emotional life. We. try to always optimize for comfort, for. happy. When actually, what's really, really helpful for them is to learn to. manage the entire range of uncomfortable. emotions. You know, when you started the. onset, I found myself the first question. I had was, what about parents who only have one. child? >> Yeah. Because you sort of have less. exposure, less training. >> experience Right? You You know what I. mean? I don't feel experienced. Yeah, I. was like, oh, no, at least cuz now you.

have like a little petri dish that you. can test all of this within before YOU. GO OUTSIDE. >> [laughter]. >> BUT, YOU CAN DO IT WITH ONE CHILD. >> NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. if I'm hearing you correctly, it's almost like you're saying, we. forget. that the first child our child will meet. is us. Do you Do you know what I mean? 100%. >> Like I Like as you were saying it, I was. going, parents take for granted like I I. know from my life, like I was the. firstborn.

I was a You still are. Yeah. I was, and. then I was the only child until I was 9. years old. But, what I took for granted was. >> at the same [laughter] time. But, in. Japan, Only one thing is true. The thing THAT I TOOK FOR GRANTED WAS. the first time I learned play, technically, was from my mom. Ah. The. way I learned play was with my mom. The. way she responded to me taking a toy or. not taking a toy was developing how I. saw the toys. You You get what I'm.

saying? And so, like when you were. saying that, I was going, oh, how much. of that should parents be considered of? Because often times we we think of it in. a in a very linear and rigid structure. Mhm. Parent, child, parent, child. But, when. Bobby's not there, Yeah. and you are. there with your kid with the police toy. that you bought them, you're the first. kid that they meet. Yeah. I mean, you're you're interacting with. them. Sometimes when parents talk to me. and they have an only child, I think one. of the things you're also pointing out.

is siblinghood is inherently full of. frustration. >> Yes. Right. And. sometimes that feels like too much. frustration, but sometimes that feels. helpful in terms of mimicking what. someone will go through in the world. So, when you have an only child, it's. easy to say, okay, fine, you go first at. Candy Land, you pick the game. You don't. really care. When you have siblings, they're always arguing who goes first, who has that chair, right? So, sometimes, and this could also just be. when you're one-on-one with the child. who's struggling with their behavior, I. think it's important, and I've had these. situations where I'm alone with the kid, and they I say,

I want to go first. Like, almost. purposefully to mimic a situation. Right? I mean, I'm not going to do that. all the time, but if you have an only. child and you notice it's only matters. if in the outside world you're noticing. they're having a hard time dealing with. sharing, dealing being in line, because. they actually don't have as much. experience, you can have situations in. your own home that a little bit mimic. some of, you know, some of those. real-life scenarios. Yeah, I I call it. in my life, I call it artificial. adversity. That's how I think [snorts]. of it all the time. Is I go,

your goal as a person is to try and. create as much artificial adversity as. you can in your life, so that you are primed for the adversity. that you may encounter. Like, going to. the gym is artificial adversity. The. weight does not need to be lifted, nor. does it need to be put down. You're just. going to do this repeatedly. The real. reason you're doing this is so that your. body is strong enough to handle the. weights that life may throw your way. Do. you know what I mean? It's like Waiting. is adversity, but you can you can. artificially wait for a thing yourself.

You can go, you know what? I'm not going. to eat the ice cream now. I'm going to. wait 3 hours. No one's forcing you to do that. How. many? [snorts] Three. For what? To just like make it happen. Oh. What's the longest you've waited? Hey, I. DON'T WAIT, EH. >> [laughter]. >> DR. BECKY, I SORRY, I WANT I WANTED TO. ask questions that I know that. I've been struggling with and I know. some people have been struggling with. When you're talking about introducing. change Mhm. um in a child's life or in a.

family or them learning to share, does. not start at the playground or the. sandpit, it starts at home. I've often found that many people. struggle to introduce a new family. member Mhm. in their lives, in the. children's lives or in their family. You. have a 2-year-old, and all of a sudden. mommy's pregnant. Yeah. There's someone. else who's coming. The dad feels. abandoned. The new child can sort of. anticipate abandonment by seeing the. energy from the other parent. How do. people deal with that scenario, and how. do people make those kind of. introductions so that we don't end up.

fighting for red and blue shovels at 5. years old? >> [laughter]. >> So, I actually think these things are. connected because so often without. realizing, our unconscious assumption is. that our job as parents is to make or. keep our kid happy. And so, I'm. pregnant, I'm kind of worried, how's my. kid going to adjust? And so, I just like. don't talk to my kid, or I flat-out lie. about things, right? Kids notice. everything. They notice everything. They. are actually evolutionarily primed to. notice more in their environment than we.

are, because their survival depends on. it. Right? Yes. And and depends on. noticing things, cuz they're more. helpless, and it depends on us. And. plus, I always think, literally for a. toddler, their eyesight is at a mom's. belly. So, they're like, no, I know. you're pregnant. Like, I look at your. belly every day. And I hear people say. things like, oh, they're so young, or I. don't want to make them upset. Or we. just say things like, you're going to. love every second. Nobody loves every. second having a baby. [laughter] Not a. mom, not a dad, not a Definitely not a. 2-year-old. There's like nothing. enjoyable for a 2-year-old. And so, I.

think there's And this to me, a new baby. or a new family member is very similar. with. the advice I'd give around, you know, Aunt Sally has cancer, and my kid hears. me saying cancer all the time, or we're. moving, right? Kids actually can handle the truth. They. really can. What's more overwhelming. them What's more overwhelming to kids. than change is noticing change and not. have anyone talk to them honestly about. it. That's really scary. Just like it is.

for adults. Like, if you're in an office. and you hear, layoff, 20%, and then you. go to all hands, and someone's kind of. asked about it, and they're like, everything's good. Like, boxes are being packed. Computers. are being Passwords are being changed. That's exactly And you're going to act. out. And you're going to act out. So, kids act out when their parents are. bringing all the time. And then, going. back to the other idea we're talking. about, you can only. learn to manage feelings you think. you're allowed to have. Well, if you're. always told you're going to love every.

second, you're going to love being a big. brother, and you're jealous or angry, well, no one told me I'm going to feel. jealous or angry, so what do I do with. feelings I'm not supposed to have? I get them out of my body, and then one. day I steal my baby brother's toy, and. everyone's like, why did you do that? You know, and you're like, well, kind of. stole my whole life, you know? This is. like a small [laughter]. Literally. So, talk to kids, right? Tell them the truth. Doesn't mean. you have to say everything, but start. Their questions will help you guide. So,

hey, you might have noticed my belly's. getting bigger. Let me tell you what's. happening. There's going to be a new baby in this. family. When I make When it starts to snow, when. it's cold, some sense of time, the baby. is growing in my belly, and then it's coming out, and it's going. to stay. I learned from my kids, you. actually have to say that. They're not. Wait, what? You have to tell them this. >> We had a visitor for a while, okay? In. our house. And now, I don't know. [laughter] if that was a question or a.

wish, but one of my kids is like, is the. baby going with her? And I was like, oh, no, actually, [laughter] but she has. been here since the baby's been here. SO, YOU KNOW. OH, WOW, they're going to stay. Are they. going to stay? And you can say, and. look, we'll talk about a lot of. different things. It's okay to have a lot of different. feelings at the same time. And to make. this concrete for a kid, you might say, a part of you, like, this part of you. might feel happy and excited. This part of you might feel like mad.

This part of you might feel sad. And I. remember saying to my kids, "Honestly, I have all those feelings, too, because. me and Daddy love. our family with just you, and we're sad that it's going to change. And we're so excited that there's going. to be a new baby and that our family's. getting bigger." You know, along these. lines, it's so funny. One of my oldest. kid, when I had my third, was being. really difficult. when we wanted our first family picture, right? [clears throat] Like we tried to. get family picture, maybe my youngest at.

point was like, I don't know, 8 days. old. He refused to come. And this is the. kid who, sibling roles again, was like. actually my easier kid, right? And I kind of got curiosity. Okay, I. have a good kid. He's having a hard. time. What's going on? And I said to. him, he was probably almost 6 at the. time, so it's helpful, he could talk. I. said, "What's going on? You know, something's upsetting." And really know. what it was. And he goes, "Can we first have a picture of the. original three?" Damn. He never lied. The original three. >> The original three. Ha!

That's how he's always seen his family. But Uh-huh. [cough] Absolutely. [clears throat]. And you know what? We did it. And this. is where like it's so important to, you. know, that we can be effective or like. be right. Being right would have been. like, "Well, you've been difficult, so. we're not doing that." You know? >> was like, "Okay, let me just like roll. with this." And we did. Um and then he suggested bringing in his. sister for the original four. There was. like a sequence. And then. welcoming in, you know, the baby. He. didn't care. He was like 7 days old.

It's not like he was protesting the. order of the pictures. >> [laughter]. >> But again, there was It seems so simple, but there's a reason. There's always. some reason. And it doesn't make the. behavior okay, but when we understand. the reason for behavior, we can. intervene in a in not only in a way. that's more effective, but in a way that. feels better for us. Like it was It's. like, "Oh, I get it. This is a concrete. representation of our family. Our. family's changing. It was a second boy, which is a little. bit more of an injury than a second kid. who's a girl. I was like, "Okay, well, now there's the two boys." And And if.

that was the thing he was kind of. looking for and his protest was a way of. saying that, well, it was being a little. bit curious that allowed it to come out. and not just continue in the form kind. of of a tantrum. It's so fascinating. hearing you say this at such a. at such a small level, Mhm. because when. you expand it, you see this happening in. societies, in relationships, in in in. workplaces, and everything. You know, when when you said that, it it reminded. me of something I think I read in one of. Esther Perel's books. She was talking.

about how infidelity is dealt with in a. relationship. And she said one of the. common misconceptions that people have. in in in and around infidelity is forget. it and move on. Mhm. And they found. like often times in studies, they found. that. you acknowledging and apologizing for a. thing that you've done, even though you. do it repeatedly, makes the other person. feel like they no longer have to bring. it up because you acknowledge that. you've done it. And in that moment, I'm. hearing an acknowledgement. You He's.

going, "Can you acknowledge. >> Yes. that we used to be three?" Yes. >> And you're going, "Yes, I can. acknowledge that." And then he's like, "Okay, then I'm willing to accept. Can. we acknowledge there were four?" Yes. Okay, now we acknowledge that there are. five. And just that allows him. Yes. to sort of. create a concrete reality. And you see. this even in countries in the world. There are some countries who've. acknowledged their pasts, right? Just. acknowledged. And then there's some. countries that have gone, "No, what are you talking about? It's. It's like, no, no, no.". You'll be shocked to find that most.

people in most nations are just saying, "Can we just acknowledge. that this is how it used to be and now. it isn't and it's changed?". And if you can do that, you find a lot. of people go, "All right, I'm not saying. it will go back, but at least you've. acknowledged it." I I mean, I think. you're getting something like at the. core, I think just humans, whether. you're talking about a toddler or. someone running a country or group of. people, like we're just looking to be. believed. Yeah. That's all. Having something that feels true to you.

and not having someone believe you. is a horrible human experience, and you. will fight to the death to be believed. And if you're not believed, you will. escalate your expression and get more. and more intense in your behavior in an. attempt to be believed, which usually. makes the other party more pissed off. and more defensive. And so then, of. course, you have to escalate it further. You see this, right? That the picture's. a good example. "Oh, I don't want to go. to school today." "Oh, you're going to. school." "Oh, I can't." "Oh, my knee.

hurts." "Oh, my stomach hurts." It just. You right? And then on the other side. is, you know, "You're making a big deal. out of nothing. You're so dramatic.". Right? And so And. this is also true on on a politics. level, right? I mean, you have to do. something in such a extreme way because. you're actually just looking for the. other side to believe you, which. actually it's funny, we talked about. boundaries, but validation, people. totally misunderstand. Validation of. someone else's experience is just. saying, "I believe that's true for you.".

It's not saying it's true for me. It's. not saying I believe what you're going. to do next as a result. It's just saying. how you're feeling. is true for you. And given the feelings. in your body, you're the only one. who could know. Right? I actually think that's what. confidence is. That's what self-confidence is. And. that's, you know, what the confidence we. want to give kids is just self-trust. I am the owner of my feelings. I'm the. only one who knows how I feel. Right? And so many times, starting when kids. are young, kids kind of tell us how they.

feel, and we say, "No, you don't." Oh, wow. >> "No, you don't. I know how you should. feel. You shouldn't be that upset. You. shouldn't be that mad. You should feel. happy. It's not such a big situation.". Which means more behavioral escalation. and lower and lower self-confidence. Yeah, that's that's the opposite of. curiosity. "I'm scared there's something. under the bed." "You're not scared. You're a big boy." Exactly. >> kid's like, "Okay, I see what you've. just said to me, but that hasn't. changed." As opposed [clears throat] to. So, how do how do we deal with the. inconsistencies then? You know, as I was.

as I was reading through your work, I. was thinking to myself about any. challenge I experienced as a child, and. then I tried to think of it. empathetically through my through my. mom's lens. And the the fights I'll. always have with my mom. Now we laugh. about them, but it's fun to go I'll say. to her, "Do you ever acknowledge how. inconsistent you were?" Mhm. You know, she'd be like, "What do you mean?" I'm. like, "One day this would be the rule. Mhm. Then you would change the rule. And. now, as an adult, I understand that. rules are malleable. As an adult, I. understand that an ice cream rule on.

this day after the day we've had is. different to an ice cream rule on. another day when the day was different.". >> Yeah. But how do you. how do you solve for those. inconsistencies as a parent? Because I'm. assuming, I could be wrong, I'm assuming. that it's not militaristic. I'm assuming. that not everything is everything all. the time all the time. Sometimes you. might buy them a second toy, and. sometimes you won't. Sometimes you won't. buy them a toy at all. How do you How do. you create consistency in an. inconsistent world as a parent? First of. all, dealing with the inconsistencies, I. think almost you just shift the focus.

It's not the inconsistencies from our. childhood that usually bother us. It's. actually not having our reality. recognized when there was an. inconsistency. >> Oh, I like that. Like you're right, we. usually go for ice cream on Fridays, and. today I'm in a rush, and. that stinks for you. You're probably at. school thinking about ice cream. Does. that mean we can go for ice cream? No, sweetie. Like And this is I kind of said. this to you, like two things are true. We can't go to ice cream today, and I. get that that's really disappointing for. you. So, I think sometimes we encode from our. past, like, "Oh, yeah, it was so. inconsistent. I have to be consistent.".

No one's perfectly consistent. Real life. happens. But when something's different. from what we planned or expected, what. actually feels bad to us is that nobody. believed us and acknowledged that. So, I think an encouragement Yeah, we. can't do anything all the time, but when. something is different or kind of. inconsistent, and your kid probably will. have a feeling about that, just ac-. acknowledge acknowledge that reality. Yeah. And sometimes I think. some of those parenting inconsistencies. are caused by situations. Of course.

>> my mom said to us when we were older. that all the time that she had said no. to us at the store was because she. didn't have the money for it. There was no. better reason. There was no this thing. is not good for you. This is not what. people She was like, "I just didn't want. to say to you, there's no money for it.". But as we got older, she was able to. say, "There's no money for it." And then. we understood better. And when I was. older, I was like, "That was very. inconsistent of you. One minute it's. fine to have Ninja Turtles. The next. minute we can't." Yeah. And she goes, "At the time, I didn't have." I think. kids are No, I don't picture a.

6-year-old saying, "It's not the inconsistency. It's that. you're not validating my feelings." Like. that's a very sophisticated. understanding. >> You've never met kids in Japan. >> [laughter]. >> I really Those kids are actually I. remember watching them go to school by. themselves, on the train by themselves, and I was like, "Wow, this is a whole. different level.". I'm operating in the wrong country. THAT'S THE ONLY [laughter] THING THE. ONLY thing I'm taking from this podcast. is I have got to go to Japan. And that's. the only true fact about Japan. You. know, the [laughter] whole entire. podcast. Seriously. Um but that usually.

is the core, because then we focus on. the inconsistency, but actually, it's the same thing in a, you know, a partnership. You always. alternate who's family you're going to. for the holidays. And second year in a. row, actually, for some reason, you've. got to still go to your partner's, and. all you want to hear from them is not. just It's not just about the. inconsistency. It's, "Yeah, this. This is the year we're supposed to go to. your family, and it didn't work out. And. I hear you. That stinks, and you it. makes sense you're disappointed." And. right? And I [clears throat] think a. phrase I love is just, "You're right to.

notice that." I try to say that to my. kids as much as possible, you know? Yeah, you're right. I don't text you as. much as I did when we first met. You are. right. But that's because I know you. now, and I live with you. Eugene. Did that hurt you? >> Apology accepted. >> Thank you. I can just I can just walk. away. [laughter]. You guys have some things to figure out. That's that's that's a perfect moment to. talk about like repair. >> Yes. You know, one one of the things you. really really.

talk about in in your work is repair and. I. I can't tell you how much I felt healed. and seen by your work because I think. parents take this I think people take. this for granted. Is the wound. being less important than the way we. heal the wound. >> Yes. You know, let let's talk a little. bit about about repair like you you know. the anecdote you share is one way you. were screaming at your child. You had. lost it. You know, it's like ah, you. know, and and you you you go on and you.

you said these things and and then. afterwards you realized you had made a. mistake. You had done something wrong. You then went and you returned and you. said that wasn't fair. I shouldn't have. yelled. You're good. I love you. And you you you literally talk about. seeing your child's shoulders drop. >> Yes. and their body language change and. I I'd love to know why repair is. important and how you would encourage. parents. to. seek some sort of repair with their. child.

>> Mhm. and what the ramifications of not. doing that would be. Yeah, I mean I I do. think this is my favorite topic and I. think it's the ultimate relationship. strategy, not just parenting strategy. Like you want to get close to anyone. closer than you are. it's something paradoxical but repair. with them. And it's true of adults too. Call up a friend today. Hey, you know, I'm thinking I haven't texted you as. much recently and I'm sure that felt bad. and I've been busy and still. I just want to let you know I see that. too. I love you. I'll try to be more in. touch, you know, over the next month. So.

every every single human, definitely. parent does things they're not proud of. It goes back to like everyone is a good. person who's having a hard time. We all. have behavior that doesn't represent our. values, that's not in line with how we. wish we would have behaved and I think. going back to our childhoods so many of. us encoded struggle and mistake next to. shame, blame and fear. >> Mhm. That even now with our own kids we. yell and and we freeze and we spiral and.

we tell ourselves the story that comes. from the collapse of behavior and. identity. I'm a monster. I messed up my. kid forever. It's too late. If anyone. else saw me, they wouldn't even believe. that I have a kid or I'm a parent, right? These awful stories. And so. one of the things I remember learning in. grad school. and I remember hearing this and I it. just stopped me in my tracks was that. one of the markers of a secure. attachment, which is basically the the. attachment we all want to have with our.

kids, the kind that brings confidence. and lower rates of mental health. struggles, all the things. But one of. the things that differentiated a secure. attachment from insecure or disorganized. attachment was repair. I remember the professor talking and I'm. what? Because it wasn't being perfect. It. wasn't getting it right all the time. It's just the fact that after you. basically yell at your kid or make a. mistake, you went back to your kid and. you took ownership of your behavior and. you [clears throat] offered.

reconnection. And so if we think about this in a. scenario, which I always like to do cuz. it just makes it more real. So I think. what I said in my TED Talk, right? Even. though it's one of many examples is it's. one of those days as at the end of my. rope for a million different reasons, my. kid whines about dinner. So classic like. oh, chicken again and like I made dinner. and like how lucky my kid is in this. whole story to have homemade dinner and. I yell, right? You're spoiled, you're. this and raise my voice and wasn't even. a decision I made. It just. happened, right? Classic situation. Then.

my son went into his room. I'm alone in. the kitchen. And now that's already happened. So. first every parent does that. There's. not one parent who has not been in that. situation. If they say they haven't, they're a liar. We don't have to be. friends with them. SO. >> [laughter]. >> PUT THAT OVER HERE. OKAY. SO. >> [laughter]. >> THERE'S THAT. OKAY. So number two. What happens for a kid after a moment. like this? Well, our relationship with. our kid is very complicated because our.

kid needs us to survive. >> Yeah. Like I have a very good. relationship with my husband but as an. adult, I I actually don't need another. adult the way a kid needs us, right? So. it's a very different relationship of. total dependency. Right? And so what. happens for a kid when the person they. depend on for safety becomes the person. who scares them? Mhm. That's a very. frenetic experience for a kid and they. get very overwhelmed in their body. Again, happens for every kid. There's no.

guilt here. It's just something to. understand. And then my son essentially. in his room has to figure out how do I. get back to feeling safe? I have to. I. have to go on with my life. I have to. keep going. How do I get back to feeling. safe? The best way that that happens is. through repair, which I'll get to. But. to me one of the motivators of repair is. understanding what a kid does to cope. if they don't have repair in that. situation. >> Yeah. Cuz we so often think it's yelling at. our kid that messes them up. I don't. like the term messes them up because it.

just feels so final. But just for. colloquial terms, what messes up a kid. isn't being yelled at, it's being yelled. at and then having. a parent not repair. >> [snorts]. >> It's not the being yelled at cuz when. they don't repair, you can picture my. son. He's like, okay, like my mom. basically just became scary mom and I'm. overwhelmed but I need my mom. She's my. leader. She's my pilot of my plane. essentially. Where'd you go? And so kids. basically have two coping mechanisms on. their own. Self-doubt and self-blame. And these will sound familiar as I talk.

about them because they're the same. coping mechanisms we practiced so much. as child in our childhood to feel safe. and still activate for us in a very. unhelpful way in adulthood. So. self-doubt sounds like that probably. didn't happen. No. I don't think I can trust myself. That. must not have happened. Yep, nope. My. mom definitely didn't yell at me. All. good. Put on a smile. Go out and. continue. So where does this have a legacy in. adulthood? I think about so many people. who say, right? Well, I'm just someone I who.

makes a big deal out of something. Let. me call five of my friends. What Do you. think this is a big deal that this guy. didn't text me back? Would you go out. with him again? Like you can't trust. your own data in your body and so you. have to essentially. rely on lots of external sources. because you've engaged in so much. self-doubt. That was actually a very. adaptive coping mechanism early on. because if your internal scary. experiences and overwhelming experiences. weren't spoken to as real, then.

self-doubt at least helped you get back. to zero and move on. The other is self-blame. I did this. If I was only a better kid. If I was only more on top of my game, I. wouldn't have gotten yelled at. And. there's a Fairbairn quote that I always. love and you know, it to me it's very. poignant. Says for a kid, it's better to. be a sinner in a world ruled by God than. to live in a world ruled by the devil. Damn. Right? So in the binary of good. and bad you'd rather as a kid have the.

bad inside and the good as your parents. than to feel like a good kid who has. this scary parent who could just scare. you at any time. So you take in the bad. Right? Again. works against you in adulthood, which we. see in a lot of adults. >> Yeah. Anything that happens around them, even in you think about really unhealthy. toxic. partnerships where sometimes the abusive. so much self-blame. I did this. I set my. partner off. If I had only remembered.

the toilet paper I wouldn't have gotten. screamed at. That's a legacy. of self-blame from scary moments that. went unrepaired over and over and over. when you had to rely on the only coping. mechanism you had. So what happens when we repair? When you repair with your kid always my. thing about it. I'm a visual person. It's like you're a magician. Like you. get to go back to this moment that felt. bad in your kid's body. You get to kind of snatch out any.

self-doubt. and self-blame. And instead of that. chapter of their life ending with and. then nice mommy turned into scary mommy. Period. You have a new ending. Okay. Sometimes moments happen with. people I love that didn't feel good. And when those moments happen. I can expect that person. to come back to me. to take responsibility for what they did. and to reconnect together. So it usually.

sounds like. sorry I yelled. And this line really matters, I think. It's never your fault when I yell. I'm working on staying calmer even when. I'm frustrated. I love you. And just to get to the naysayers, right? But. isn't like he did complain about dinner? Like but like he didn't put on his. shoes, right? That situation leads to my frustration. Yeah. But my ability to manage my frustration,

that predated my child's existence. That's not something where we're. actually talking about the difference. between a feeling. and how that feeling gets managed or is. kind of as dysregulated as probably I. still see in my young children, right? When when you put it that way, I realize. there's such a fine nuance like most. things in therapy or in the way we heal. ourselves. There's such a fine nuance.

in real repair. versus the facade of repair because what. you just said I think of now. as parents or even as partners where. some people a parent might go to. somebody. I'm sorry I yelled. But whenever you do that, you make me so. angry and it means that mommy can't come. and daddy, you know, daddy was really G. had a long day and when you did that and. then it it it seems like the repair is. less. them coming to repair what they've.

wronged you with. They're basically the cop that's going. I'm sorry I slammed your head on the. hood of the car, but you got to understand when you walk. like that and when you wear that hoodie, it just makes me feel like you might. have committed a crime. Then he's like, oh, it's not a repair anymore. Now it's it's. just a calmer way of chastising the. child. Uh you're you're teeing me up, so. thank you. Um that's exactly right. And. I think what you're actually talking. about from the Let's start with the. parents' perspective.

is a misstep often. is actually self-repair. Okay, meaning if I don't repair with. myself. for yelling at my kid, I'm not going to be able to repair with. my kid because even if I go to them, I'm. actually basically just asking them to. take the blame. or I'm asking them to take care of my. guilty feelings. Right? Because I think in that situation. we either say, "I'm sorry I yelled. It's. okay, right? You still love me, right?". And the kid is.

what in the heck just happened? Now, I. was overwhelmed cuz I'm a young kid who. got yelled at and now I have to take. care of your adult feelings and all of. that happened cuz actually we haven't. been taught to take a moment and this. would be something I would have to do. before I go to my son's room, probably. sit in my bathroom alone, take a deep breath and kind of again, separate for myself identity. from behavior. I'm a good parent who yelled. I'm a good. parent who is having a hard time. That.

moment didn't define me. I am not my latest behavior. I can move on. And if I can't do that for myself in a. way and I really do feel like when I do. this for myself, I have to wait until I feel like. something shift in my body. Something. has to release a little bit. Because if. not when I go to my kid, I'm just asking. them to forgive me, right? Or I'm saying something like, "Look, I'm. sorry I yelled, but if you wind up if. you didn't wind up at dinner, it would. have never happened." And that is.

definitely not a repair. I think there's. a difference between. asking for forgiveness or taking. forgiveness. Mm. Oh, damn. Yeah. It's a. it's a. Woo, I feel like I'm learning so much. I. I I put it like this cuz I know you're a. visual person. From what I understand, correct me if. I'm wrong, as a parent, you're almost. like NATO. There's a few of you with NATO like the. the treaty. Yes. Okay, cool. There's a. few NATO nations. There's a few of you. with. lots of power, Yeah. managing states. that don't have as much power. You get.

to decide. You can either be good to. them. or you can burn them down. >> [snorts]. >> Sometimes as a parent, you get to be. like the UN. You say you stand for peace and. understanding, but sometimes you step in. when your nations have been pulverized. and you give aid once in a while. So you. say forgive or it will happen again or. if you don't forgive, well, who are you be here giving you more. grain? Sometimes you find yourself in those. tricky positions and you want to move. on. But sometimes when you have want to. repair, this how I see it in my mind,

>> Yeah. you're almost like you're the US. and there's the Ukraine. Zelenskyy is. sitting at the White House and you go, "Without me, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. And then he. goes, "But but but." And then you have a. chance to repair by calling him back and. he reciprocates by wearing a suit. You. guys shake hands and you make amends and. things. You've asked you've you've made. a you've made repair. Yeah. So that's. how I look at all those dynamics. I'm. like in the real world, that's how they. apply to me. And when you say basically. adults and world leaders and nation.

leaders are also just children who have. learned tools or did not learn the tools. to cope with. >> That's right. And look, I'm a. pragmatist. So in the dinner situation. or in the my kid isn't putting on shoes. situation, I do think there are ways to. tell your parent you don't like dinner. without complaining the way my son did. and it is helpful to have a kid who puts. on their shoes the first time and not. the 22nd time. But okay, but I always. tell parents just cuz I like a blanket. rule, >> [laughter]. >> right? It's true, right? 24 seconds. COME ON. UM I USED TO SAY WAIT 24 HOURS. I don't.

know why. Like a repair is an offering. An offering isn't an offering if you're. asking something from someone and it. won't and and they won't feel it that. way. So I'd say wait 24 hours after I. say, "I'm sorry. I've been yelling a lot. in the mornings. They've been really. hectic. I know they haven't felt good. I'm really working on staying calmer.". Now, for some parents, it's going to take every ounce of them. not to say, "But you have to put on your shoes.". Wait 24 hours and then you could say to. your kid, not as related to yelling, but just. more as teammates, "Hey, mornings have.

been stressful. We have to get our shoes on at a certain. time. Do you have any ideas for, you. know, how to make that easier? Or hey, do you think if we had a chart, do you. think if we played a song?" I know for. me, often it relates to this. Feel like. I've been on my phone in the mornings. even though I say it's going to be in my. bathroom. [clears throat] I'm going to. really try to keep it in the bathroom. for the 20 minutes we have. I'm going to. be more present and what I'd ask for you. is that, you. you put your shoes right by the door in. the morning and that will make it. easier. Usually when you approach kids.

in that way, you know, versus if you. don't put on your shoes, some random. threat that I'm not keeping anyway, they're they're more likely to. cooperate. >> I've also noticed that. as my child got older, I it was good for me to ask her for. help. Yes. Yes. Right? Yes. Yeah. So. sometimes we confuse asking kids for. help with responsibility. Well, you know. your job is to wash the dishes and that. and that and that. But for me, it was. "Do you know where my charger is? Can. you just car keys? Do you know where I. put them?" And they're like, "Way.

without me." And then they get to do. their responsibilities quicker because. they know that at some point they're. going to have to perform a duty that. only they can perform in my life and it. has nothing to do with them being a good. kid or a bad kid. Yeah, well, I think. this even connects to overprotection and. kids like to feel capable. They they do. We all like to feel capable. We all like. to feel like we've made an impact in the. world, right? And in this world of doing. so much for our kids and making their. lives so easy and kind of therefore. making them more fragile. in the meantime, we also get in their.

way of feeling capable. So even yeah, "Where's my charger?" or "Do you have. any ideas for how we can make the. morning smoother?". Kids like to share ideas. They don't. like being dictated to and bossed. around, but they do like sharing ideas. if we kind of tee them up for it. [music]. We'll be right back after this short. break. >> [music]. [music]. >> Let me ask you what you would say to. parents who are very good at repairing. but not replacing their behavior.

Cuz I think a lot of people can relate. to that. They've had parents where the. parent would be very good at repairing. "I'm sorry I yelled at you. Yeah. I'm. I'm working on it." And then they would. yell again and then they would "I'm. sorry I yelled at you." And then they. would yell again. What would you say to. those parents they're creating in their. child that they may not realize? So I. think there's probably just a couple. missing ingredients. So I I I think. repairs are really helpful first step. And again, repairing is always better than leaving. the moment not talked about. Just like.

it's right. We don't want to do that. with being yelled at. We don't want to. do that with Aunt Sally who has cancer. It's better to talk about the things. that are happening for kids. But I think. the next ingredient is. something that probably does require a. little bit more time and reflection and. then resources. Okay, why am I yelling? I'm yelling most days at, I'm making. this up, 6:00 p.m. What's going on for. me then? Okay. I don't feel like I have support. I. don't know. My single parent is my. partner not home? Is my partner home and. on the couch and I feel very resentful, but maybe I've never learned how to.

speak up for my needs, so I have this. whole hint and hope dance. It's like my. favorite thing I notice, you know. It'll be great if you were home for bath. time and you kind of hint and you hope. and then your partner doesn't even know. what bath time is and then they come. home late and then you yell at them and. then you end up apologizing, right? And. so what is my pattern? Okay, it's daily. at 6:00. I feel overwhelmed. I always. think I ask my partner for help, but my. partner never gives me the help, okay? What's going on there, right? Or it's. something totally different. I always. yell when there's whining. Well, why is.

that? Nobody likes whining, but I don't. know. To me, [clears throat] as an. example, whining often represents. helplessness. So what's my relationship. with helplessness? What did I learn as a. child? And now we're talking about our. triggers and to me this is my favorite. part of Good Inside is all the. re-parenting stuff, right? All the ways. our stuff gets acted out. So repair is a. starting point. But then I think when we. say to our kid, "I'm working on staying calmer even when. I'm frustrated." We do have to have a. little bit of a mirror to ourselves and.

say, "Am I? Like is it just am I hint am I. hoping?". Am I Yeah, am I learning something? And. I think this is also when you asked me. in the beginning what Good Inside stands. for. I mean, parenting is the hardest. job in the world. It is the most. important job in the world. It's the one. that has the biggest impact on our life. in the world. Right. And. nobody has given us education. I mean, you have a baby and you leave the. hospital. I remember for me and this is. so much of the mission of Good Inside, I. looked around. Like.

like I thought someone was going to stop. me or like hand me something helpful and. I remember. >> you. something and I remember asking the. nurse, "Do I need anything?" And she. so well meaning she was a car seat. I. was like, "Okay, well, I have a car. seat. [laughter]. Car seat's not raising my child unless. you have some new fancy AI car seat that. always knows what to say, you know?" And. so. I think this whole idea, especially for. women, of maternal instinct, right? I. mean, we don't do that to anyone else. We don't even we don't do that to CEOs. We don't say there's a CEO instinct. We.

love CEOs now have executive coaches and. athletes have. trainers and they have sports. psychologists and we look at those. people and think, "You're doing a great. job because you've surrounded yourself. by support." I don't know one investor. who'd ever invest in a CEO who says, "I just I do this naturally. Maybe the. quickest way to end a meeting. But if. you think about parenting. well, the only thing that comes. naturally in parenting is how you were. parented. That's all instinct is. Instinct is what you've learned until. that point.

And so if we don't help parents see. education and resources and ongoing. support. as a positive thing, just like we do in. every other job then it's a really hard. thing for a parent to change cycles. What what are they doing? So I think at. Good Inside, that's really what we stand. for. There's moments that come. naturally, there's a lot of moments that. don't. And just like in other areas, when things don't come naturally, you. learn and you practice and you get. support and education. I that's really. what I think parents should have access. to as well. Yeah, I can't help thinking.

about how this ties into what we've. spoken about so many times here as. community and how to fix every single. aspect of our lives. You know, you think about how finances. are affected by your community, you. think about how your lessons are This is. a perfect example because as we've. become more and more of the nuclear. family, as people have become more and. more isolated. they have fewer people to lean on. There's fewer like. other mothers who are just hanging. around you. Now it's just like a bunch. of strangers and you don't know how much. you can reveal or not reveal. And it it.

funny enough, it ties into one of the. elements that you you really really talk. about in your work. And that is shame. Yes. Because what you just said, if I. hear you correctly, sort of goes to the. shame that many people will feel. in not feeling like they know how to. parent. They're ashamed of what they. did. I'm ashamed of how I acted towards. my kid. I'm ashamed of how they feel. about me. I'm ashamed of how they turned. out. They They take drugs. I'm ashamed. of this, you know? Yeah. And that shame. we can tie back to childhoods. Yeah. You.

really really really hone in on shame. and and you try to illuminate the. reader's mind as to why that is one of. the things we should fight the most. against. Talk us through why. Like. what is shame doing in a child's mind. that we we definitely want to prevent. from getting into a society? So children. are driven by attachment. That is the. primary evolutionary impact on a child.

Meaning that yes, we need food, shelter, water, but the only way kids get food, shelter, water is through attachment. with parents. Right? They can't get it. on their own. They can't survive on. their own. Right? And so they have to. figure out how to stay close to a. parent. And so we think about attachment as a. relationship, which is it is, but. attachment is actually it's a system of. proximity. It's actually a system of. proximity cuz if you think about. attachment way way way way back in the. day, if you think about a lot of kids.

who are helpless and there was some. animal in the forest, okay? Which kids. would survive? The ones that were. closest to their parent. Pick up my kid, right? And help them. survive. And so kids are always paying. attention to what keeps them close to a. parent. and what kind of leads to distance. And the way we think about this now in. 2025 certainly isn't just about an. animal in the forest, but what feelings, what parts of me. do I get the message this is allowed?

I can stay with you. I still like you. when you're feeling this way. And what feelings and experiences do I. get the message through. being hit through harsh punishment, through the silent treatment, through. just go to your room, right? Um and. never talking about something again. Essentially, the survival related, the. evolutionary related message to a kid's. body is that feeling, that part of you. is dangerous. It's actually dangerous,

okay? So how does this relate to shame? Shame is actually it starts as a very. protective feeling. Because shame is fear of disconnection. If somebody saw this part of me. I would be unknowable, unlovable, unattachable. And so if you think about shame in a. child, how adaptive? For a kid, let's. say who learns. you know, whenever I get really mad. Now, I get mad and I don't have skills, so it's unfortunately coming out as hit.

or I hate you. But that leads to bad. things in my family, okay? Like I get. punished or sent away or, you know, left. on the street corner, whatever it is. My. body will feel shame when I have anger. in attempt. to not allow Yes, to not allow the. feeling. Now, fast forward many years, shame. ironically tends to then make a lot of. those feelings more explosive, right? That's what shame really does. There's. nothing in adulthood that makes you.

either as shut down or as triggered and. explosive as shame. Because it's kind of. your body's way of remembering this is. danger. This is 10 out of 10 threat. state. You go into fight or flight. because you're no longer facing, you. know, a bear in the woods that would. endanger you. You're facing an intense. feeling in your body that you learned. was kind of met with aloneness. Wow. Without an external visible threat to. everybody. That's exactly.

>> think you're overreacting, yeah. That's. I I I feel it. It's yeah. That's exactly. right. The threat now is. it's like inside your own body, which. which is terrifying. You you literally. can't run away from something inside. your body, right? >> [laughter]. >> And so shame when you start to It's. interesting, you can start to see it in. kids. And some kids I I call them deeply. feeling kids I find to be especially. shame prone. Yeah. I They really are. They have big feelings. They have such a. fear that their big feelings will also.

overwhelm others. And so they are so. they're so desperately in need of a. parent because of their big feelings, but they're also so fearful that they're. going to overwhelm a parent, so that. shame is so present. Which is why you'll. see these truly animalistic meltdowns. These kids will scratch, they will. growl, they will hiss during meltdowns. So common. I know there are listeners. thinking they're the only ones. They are. not. >> Wow. >> These are the kids who when they trip in.

front of their friends, they like blame. other people, they blame their parents. Any adult either also who blames people. Yeah. for things that those people clearly. didn't do, that's a sign of shame. They're kind of saying this feeling I'm. feeling can't be mine. And so you had to. have done it. to me because it's so overwhelming and. so scary in my own body that like I. can't kind of accept its reality. It. almost sounds like a manifestation of.

isolation. Yes. You know. That's what it. is. Aloneness is the enemy, right? It's. not so much a feeling, it's feeling plus. aloneness that overwhelms us going back. to childhood because we couldn't survive. alone. Yeah. And so aloneness, yes, or. the fear of aloneness is what evokes. shame. I find that what helped with me. in the early stages of being alone with. my daughter was reassurance. It was always important for me to tell. her I'm not going anywhere. And and when she was young, I would tell. her when I'm coming back if I'm going.

somewhere. Then I'd find that she'd be. more relaxed and more independent. Yes. It It helped so much. It It opened up. Yeah. And other people would be like, but aren't you scared? She'd be like, no, he told me. He is definitely coming back. Yes. Cuz. that abandonment is a huge thing. Without it being acknowledged and the. reassurance and you must never get tired. to reassure. But then you had to come back. Yeah, yeah. No, but that's what I mean is like. I think. >> Absolutely. I think that's where some. people don't realize. the only thing worse than not reassuring. is false reassurance.

>> Yes. I'll be back. Then they don't come. back. Then you're like, well. I guess I don't trust the world. Yes. That's right. I literally don't trust. the world because you coming back is my. world as a kid. And it's why kids have. such visceral memories of being the last. kid picked up at school. Because it's such a true existential. threat. It It really is, right? >> what was funny for me was when I wasn't. picked up from school. my shame wasn't that I wasn't picked up, funny enough.

I felt ashamed. about how the people perceived my. parents. But then I still carried that. shame. It's amazing how old were you. No, [snorts] this was when I was, I. don't know, 10, 12, somewhere there. But. But it's an interesting one where it's. like, you know, that's how powerful. shame can be. Cuz sometimes shame isn't. only about yourself directly, you can. carry the shame on behalf of the parent. that Yeah, because I went. oh, I I don't want I don't want to them. to think that my mom doesn't care about.

me because You know what I mean? Between. me and my mom, it was just like, all. right, my mom didn't come. Genuinely between me and my mom. But. then the shame actually came from the. other thing. It was them going, did your. mom leave you? Did your mom forget you? And you're like, no no no no no. No, that that would never No, that You. know what I mean? And it's interesting. how kids can even hold that level of. shame on your behalf. That's like a. different level of aloneness cuz you're. saying I don't want to be seen as the. only one Exactly. who had a parent when.

all these other, I don't know what it. was, hyper-present parents. Oh, is your. mom not here? And then again, it's a. form of aloneness. Yeah. Just that community, just that. it it it branches into the world of. lying that you were talking about. And. that's that's something I think a lot of. parents would would love clarity on. How do you deal with lying? Because. you know, there's there's like a wide. gamut. There's There's some parents who. just go like, you lied to me and it is. the END OF OUR JOURNEY AS PARENTS AND. CHILDREN. YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIKE THAT.

ELEMENT. I'VE SEEN SOME parents who are. like, don't you ever lie to me. You lied. to me and I'll just. And then I've seen some parents who go. like, oh, you lied to me. Well, I. good luck. And they almost they retreat in a. different way. You know, and then. there's then there's parents who go. like, you are a liar. You don't have a true bone in your body, you lying liar of liarness. >> can see, Trevor was raised by New York. City detectives. >> [laughter]. >> No, but I I You know why I love I love I. love observing this because I I I I I.

often observe how the child is. responding to these things. You know, so. one of one of my best friends, I. remember saying this to her cuz she was. saying like her child never lied to her. then like one day did and she was like, I can't believe you lied to me. It was. this whole thing. And I I said something. to her based on my experience as a. child. I said, I'm look, I'm not a. therapist. I have no professional. expertise. But I said as a as a child as a. professional child, I lived my whole. young life as a child. As [laughter] a. child, I have many years of being a.

child. I said, do yourself a favor. Next time. you're going to ask your kid something. that they're going to get into trouble. for. I said, give them time to answer you. So. I said, Oscar, go like, hey, did you eat. the thing that I said you weren't. supposed to eat? Don't answer me now. Go away. and think about your answer. But come back when you're ready to. answer me. And she was like, why? And I. said to her because I know for me as. Trevor, sometimes the answer I was. giving was just the answer in the moment.

because I was just like, of course, this. is the right answer. Did you eat the. thing? No. And they're like, no. And I'm like, oh. jeez. Oh, now I can't I don't want to be. a liar so I can't go back. Now I've got. to lie more to get out of the lie. So. let's talk a little bit about lying. I. love this topic and I actually just put. up something on Instagram which which I. mean, like why I want my kid to lie to. me when they're young. Right? I think so. many You want your kid to lie to Yes, definitely when they're young. I want to. figure this out with them when they're. seven and eight, not when they're. I don't know if 16, 17 and 18 the stakes. are a lot higher, right? And so a couple.

things. All the examples of the. responses, all of them were different. versions of collapse of curiosity, right? It's just really interesting that. what the hardest thing to do is is to. say why. Sometimes we say why is an. accusation. Why would you lie to me? That's not a question. It's just an. accusation with a question mark. But. why, truly? >> Inquisitive versus accusatory. Yeah, why. would a kid lie? And and I actually find for parenting. some of my best ways of understanding my. kid before talking to them is just to.

ask myself that question. Well, why. would I lie to someone I love and. respect? Cuz parents often think it's. cuz they don't respect me. It's like the. most selfish interpretation. Like I. don't I don't know. If my husband said, did you. pick up my prescription for me and and I. forgot. The idea that I would lie. because I don't respect my husband is. like so absurd. [laughter] Like Look at. this loser. Look at this easy loser. What a dumbass. What a dumbass. I'm. going to lie to him, this [laughter]. dumbass. I LOVE YOUR plausible deniability. character that you put on. I wouldn't.

[laughter]. Did you come back? But I was SAYING TO. HIM. DID YOU GET MY PRESCRIPTION? MAN, WATCH. WHAT I'M GOING TO DO TO THIS DUMBASS. >> [laughter]. >> AH, the pharmacy was closed, you stupid. ass dookie dumbass. >> [laughter]. >> I'M TIRED. I LOVE YOUR ALTER EGO. It's. so cool. I WAS ARGUING [laughter] WITH. HER FOR AN HOUR. I THINK I WANT YOU DEAD. BY NOT PICKING UP YOUR PRESCRIPTION. >> [laughter]. >> Oh man. But but how many times do you.

hear parents interpret their kids' bad. behavior through the lens of disrespect? It's actually it's absurd. It's never. true, right? >> how much of that comes from like. colonialism and empirical structure. Like not like not like black white. anything. I'm just saying structures. where they were told like the king. wanted respect and then we all as the. people and the peasants throughout time. have gone, the respect is the thing that. we all want. >> I think it's it's contempt, right? It's. people going, who do you think I am? Yeah. To do that to me. >> Well, I I yeah, I think it is just. passed on. That's what we were told. We.

acted out. You know, these are not our. words originally. No baby's like, I. think I'M LIED TO. >> [laughter]. >> THERE SHE IS. I FOUND HER AGAIN. SMILE, THERE YOU [laughter] GO. OKAY, SO. WHY DO KIDS LIE? Why would I lie to my. husband in that situation? Well, most of. all I would lie ironically because I. felt bad and I don't even want to face. the reality myself. That's why most of. us lie. We don't want to see. the truth of the thing we did because. then we'd have to feel all the feelings.

again then we don't really want to do. that, right? So number one, kids lie. because they don't want to face. the truth and all the messy feelings. around it. Number two, and this is. really important especially for young. kids. For young kids the line between. wish and reality is much murkier than it. is for adults. Right? Oh, I hear my kid. right? I hear my kid say, I went to. Disneyland. I went to Disneyland. Now my. kid's lying. THEY'VE NEVER. >> [laughter].

>> I LOVE IT. I CAN'T DO THIS. >> [laughter]. >> I NEVER I NEVER WENT TO DISNEY WHAT? THAT'S SO FUNNY. I'M GOING TO USE my. inside voice then, all right? You can. fill the character again. >> [laughter]. >> I don't know if I GOT I DON'T KNOW IF. IT'S SAFE ANYMORE. You're safe. I'm. reassuring you. Um. but my kid is talking to friends and. wishes they went to Disneyland. Of. course they do because they wish they. still had a grandma who is alive and. and that wish is something they're. playing out or all their friends went to. Disneyland and it's not it's not to say.

it's not a lie. It almost doesn't. matter. It's a wish. >> It's a wish. >> is so It's so Yeah. >> thin. And so and then the other thing. that's really important going back to. attachment. Attachment drives kids. Primary evolutionary force. So if I'm looking at my dad or my mom. and they're like, did you take money from my drawer? And. they have like a Nest Cam that like. shows them that this happened. So it's. another thing I say to parents is beyond. give them time, never ask a kid or an.

adult a question you know the answer to. If you want to know what's. disrespectful, why would you want to. catch your kid. being bad? It's just such a bad setup, right? So It's a bad but let's say I. didn't have a Nest Cam and I I thought. my kid, right? Cuz if I did, I should. have say I saw you take money from my. drawer, let's talk about it. But let's. say I didn't. I'm back to attachment. Kids are wired. to try to preserve attachment with us. And so if in a moment they know.

intuitively if I tell the truth. my attachment even temporarily is going. to be threatened. They will lie to you every time. ironically to preserve the attachment. for as long as possible. You can't beat. evolution. So they are going to say, no. And you're going to say, well, I have a. video. It. It wasn't me. And then it's like. disrespect and do they think I'm stupid? It it's it's actually. it hits me in the heart every time. Like.

they're actually trying to stay close to. you, right? Which makes you think, well, what. do we do when a kid lies to us, right? We have to first manage our emotions. But to me the question even though it's. a harder question is, well, what's. getting in my what's getting in my kid's. way of telling me the truth? What are they so scared of? What have they already learned? Maybe it's how narrow of a version does. my kid think they have to be, right? Oh, I have one kid, maybe it's not your. brother, who's the smart kid, who's the. A+ student. Oh, I don't have to worry.

about you. You're the valedictorian and. I just failed my math test. Well, you. better bet I'm going to I'm going to lie. to my parents to try to preserve this. very narrow identity of who I have. [clears throat] to be. Or if I think. telling my parents about taking money. from their drawer is going to lead to a. four-week punishment. Yeah. I'm I'm. going to be too scared, right? And so I. think those are the reasons why kids. lie. We can get more into, you know, what is the line between or what is. between punishing and permissiveness.

when kids do lie. But I think the understanding of lying. gets us, you know, You know what I'm. realizing now is I think for the most. part as parents we've got it all wrong. The the the children are doing most of. the emotional lifting of keeping us. physically close together. They depend on it. Evolution-wise, they. need you to understand even that lie is. an attempt to keep you here. Yes. I. think that's so beautiful. Yes, they.

they have to keep you close. They have. to keep us close. They are trying by any. means. That's why they cling to you at. night even though you're like, >> [laughter]. >> I have to go to sleep because they are. scared. They separate from you for 12. hours at night, longer than they do when. they go to school. with the lights on with friends and. teachers, right? So they're always. oriented, right? By attachment. And so my kids now. are right 8, 10 and 13, right? And so why why are those good. ages kind of to go through lying? Which.

first of all, it's obviously already. happened, but I'll tell you the story. So my youngest. is my least people-pleasing child. Good. for him later in life, challenging early. on. Um and so a couple years ago we were. doing a puzzle on a weekend and he's a. kid who likes to feel very capable. And. so he was trying to help us with the. puzzle. He was probably like four or. five at the time and it was just it was. very hard, okay? And he was kind of. playing it a little bit independently. [clears throat] when we were working on. it for a bit. We all had lunch. I come. back.

like a quarter of the puzzle is. destroyed and the pieces are gone. There was nobody else in our apartment, okay? And I I knew it was him. I didn't. have a video, but I just knew it. And I. know him well enough he probably went, he saw it. I brought up all of these. I'm not as much part of the family. I'm. not capable. I hate this. Well, what can. I do? I can kind of temporarily get rid. of my feelings by just destroying the. situation that's delivering. [clears throat] them. Okay. So I asked him, right? Cuz I. really didn't know. Hey, is there any. way you know where those puzzle pieces. are? Nope.

Nope. I have no idea. I knew it, right? But I I couldn't prove. it. I didn't anything. I didn't do anything. And it's funny cuz. my husband, I know he'd be okay with me. saying this, definitely grew up in a. different way than I did. And he's like, "What What punish What What? How are we. punishing him? What's the punishment? How severe? He can't do this, right? So. disrespectful." This is such a normal. reaction. And I just kind of knew, just. let's wait. Okay. So, put him to bed. that night. I said, "I want to tell you something. I.

don't think I've ever told you this. before.". When I was seven, my sister had some stickers. She had. some stickers and I really, really. wanted them. And my mom wouldn't get me my own. And I. wanted them. And do you know what I did? He's like, "You probably asked for them. nicely or something like that." And I. said, "No.". I took them.

And not only did I take them, I hid them. I took them and I hid them. And the next day, my mom said to me, "Becky, did you take your sister's stickers?". I said, "Do you know what I told her?". And he goes, "I don't know." Well, I. said, "I said, 'Nope. Nope. Didn't take them. Mhm. And then I just kind of voiced over, "I really wanted them. I kind of wanted. to be a part of it.".

I then I just took them and then I. actually felt so bad. And so she asked. me, but I felt too bad to tell her the. truth. And then felt like I couldn't. tell her the truth because I didn't tell. her the truth. And it was just so, so. bad. And. >> [sighs]. >> Anyway, "What book do you want to read?" And I. just moved on. Again, I didn't ruin the. moment by saying. I told my husband this. And I just like, I can't explain it. I felt in the moment. like there was something happening, but. he didn't give me any real sign.

And I was like, "Just we're not going to. punishment mode yet. Let's just wait." I. I swear my life, a couple days later, he just brings me. a bag of puzzle pieces. He brought them to me. Mhm. Crying. And I don't think a punishment was. needed. We ended up talking about what it's like. to be third kid in the family, seeing something that you want to be. part of and that you can't be part of,

how most people when they see that have. lots of thoughts that aren't so nice. And actually having those thoughts and. what you want to do is kind of called. urges. And we all have urges and urges aren't. problems, but we can learn to kind of. talk to our urges. And frankly, there's. going to be a lot of times being the. youngest in the family that he was going. to want to do things with us that he. couldn't do. And we are going to figure. out those things together. And so, I'm not trying to say I hear myself. saying This is not There's definitely. times I'm like, "You lied to me." You.

know, that that happens, too. But. our kids are They're They're good. inside. They're good kids who are having. a hard time. And we've had such a long. legacy. of seeing their struggles as a sign of. who they are instead of a sign of what. they might need, that it feels so. countercultural. And then we are words. so permissive, so soft. It It's actually. a much more resilient, gritty way of.

interacting with a kid because you can. actually teach them and help them better. understand the very situations that are. happening when they're young so that. they actually don't engage in that exact. same behavior when they're older. When. when you tell that story, I can't help. think. back to how many moments I felt relief. and connection when I discovered that my. parents was as imperfect as I was in. that moment. Yes. And going back to.

lying, going back to shame, going back. to discipline, all of these ideas, it feels like there's there's an. undercurrent and there's a thread here. where one of the main things you're. advocating for in being a good parent is. making sure that your child doesn't feel. like they are alone in their existence. I mean, you even do this for parents. You're saying, "Hey, you might be. listening. You might have a kid like. this." In those moments, you then feel. less ashamed, less alone, less out of. control because you are now part of.

something. And so, I think parents make. that mistake often times. They'll. They'll tell their kids who they wish. their kids to be. because of who they wish they were or. who they wish they are. But they will often times neglect to. tell their child. how much they say the share the. similarity of being imperfect. And they. don't understand what that does to them. You know what I mean? It just It just. opens your world up. I remember when I. was young, my um. my my mom was She was like really angry.

with me one day because my report card. came and I done terribly in math. I'd. failed failed in math. She was so angry. And with my grandmother this day. And my mom's busy and she's like angry. She's like, "You know, this child He. didn't study. He didn't do this that.". And then my grand was like She's like, "Ah, what what what happened? What. happened?" She's like, "Yo, he failed. his math." And And then And then my. grand said She's like, "Ooh, like. mother, like son.". And then my mom was like, "What? What. Which mother? What are you talking. [laughter] about?". And then my grand said She's like, "Ooh, you did terribly in You were always.

failing subjects in school." Then my mom. was like, "Me?" Mom was like, "I'm an A. student. I'm And yes, later on in. tertiary education and courses She's I. mean, you can't beat.". But in that she And she had completely. And no joke, she had forgotten that. And. she's like, "What are you talking?" And. my grand then turned to me. She's like, "Your mother Ha ha ha ha never wanted to. do homework. Always failing her math.". All of it And I remember like turning, looking at my mom. And I was just like. It took root there. I was like, [laughter] "Yeah." I literally I was. like,

"Huh. Well, well, well.". What And But you know what was. wonderful? Look, my mom took a credit in. that moment. She laughed. She didn't. know if she. But what What connected us there And And. for evermore, by the way. She never. judged me in the same way. She'd ask me. like, "What can you improve? What can. you not?" But I realized how it made me. feel. I used to be ashamed of failing. And now I wore it like a badge of honor. And I know it sounds crazy. But like. people like, "Ah, your math mark." I'd. be like, "Yeah, my family, we not so. good at math." [laughter] Not good at. the math. >> Yeah, we like we don't know how to. count. Me and my mom, you know, we just.

do the thing. >> [laughter]. >> And then I would even try Like when I'd. come home, I'd even go, "Hey, look, I. got than you've ever gotten. I got Now. it like motivates me." And I think in. your story, what's beautiful there is. like he beat you in that story. He got. to do the thing that you never did. >> That's ex- That's And what you said, "I. used to be ashamed." That's what it. alone. That's what it meant. I used. [clears throat] to feel like I was the. only one feeling like the only one who. is shame. And And I think. from an animal defense response.

perspective, we know what we talk a lot. about fight or flight, right? Fight or. flight. But those are the animal. defenses that make us activate, right? Freeze, submit, and play dead are also. three animal defense states. And shame. brings a freeze state. You can't change. if you're frozen. It's literally the. opposite. And so, as long as you feel. like the only one, you are frozen. You. can only, if you wanted to, get help in. math or work on math if you feel like. you're not the only one who Right.

>> Right? And so, telling your kids stories. And I I I saw a dad on my last book tour. and he said, "You know, I heard you in. my head this morning. My son would not. put on his shoes." Classic to go to. school. And I tried all the things, right? And he said, "I heard my own dad. in my head. The yelling, the. threatening." And he's like, "I even. said to my son, 'I'm going to get fired. from my job.' It wasn't true. And we're. like, [laughter] 'Never going to go on. vacation.' Right? You just You're And. then he's like, "I heard your voice.". And this is I took a deep breath. And. this is what I said to my son.

"You know, when I was your age, there. were mornings I didn't want to go to. school.". And he said, "I kid you not." My son. just looked at me cuz now there's a. connection. And he said, "There were?". And he just wanted to hear more. And as. I kept telling him more of the story, which obviously mirrored his struggle, he was fine with me putting on his. shoes. We got the shoes on. I kept. telling the story all the way until the. drive to school. Right? It's like our. kids are almost screaming in their.

behavior, just tell me I'm not the only. one. And once that happens, it might not. get you 100% of the way, but it's like. the door that has to open for the room. of all the other good things. >> And I guess from what you say, I'm kind. of picking up that sometimes. [clears throat]. all the skills that we lack and all the. tools that we don't have will manifest. themselves in different ways in our. parenting. For example, guilt and. overcompensating. If you don't want to. apologize, you'll overcompensate as a. way of showing how sorry you are, but.

you're actually making the situation. worse because you're not imparting tools. to your child that they can later as. emotions used to deal with situations. >> Absolutely. You know, when when we when. we talk about this, there's some core. tenets I'm I'm realizing in in good. inside and what you're what you're. getting to. One is community. You know, and we take [clears throat]. for granted that community literally. starts at home. If a child feels like. they are part of a family and that. family will always be a part of them, it. means they get to interact with. themselves and the world differently.

because they feel like there's always. home base. Yeah. You know, they're. they're not worried that it can go away. It's always there regardless of their. action because who they are is always. accepted. And the other one I keep keep. hearing you talk about is like truth. And [snorts] truth not in the way that. we think about it, but in the way that. it's actually expressed. When a parent tells a child that they. too lied and they too stole and they too. made a mistake and they too failed, you're telling the truth of who you are. And then the child then gets to process.

you because there's nothing more. isolating than feeling like you're the. only failure in your family, the only. person who's ever stolen, the only. person who's ever lied. But the truth. literally sets you free. And and. I I I wonder if you if you like teach. parents that or how you teach them. to [clears throat] express the truths. that are not readily apparent. And what. I mean by that is. an example I I can think of is. parents will say. hey.

Eugene. did you did you steal mommy's favorite. thing? Eugene, did you did you take. daddy's tool? You can tell me, you won't get in. trouble. Then Eugene's like, "Okay, I. took it." Then they're like, "Trouble, you piece of YOU READY FOR TROUBLE. NOW?" And I go. that's a lie. And I think a lot of. parents don't realize this. And I think. even in relationships as people go on, they don't realize this. I've seen this. in like literally in relationship. therapy as well like couples. >> Yes. People go like, "They lied." And. then another person is like, "Oh no, no,

but you don't understand that you're. also telling a lie.". >> Yeah. Cuz you've said to your kid. "Tell me this and we're good." Yeah. >> They tell you and then they're not good. Yeah. >> So how do you how do you what are the. tools that parents can use. to be more truthful in the way that they. both respond or interact with their kids. in all of these situations? Well, I. think probably the first kind of tool. even though I love a good strategy or. script, our best tools for anything in. life is our mindset, right? Cuz the. mindset is how you're thinking about.

something or in a way it's the glasses. you wear. Yeah. The glasses you wear to. see a situation has more impact than. anything you're going to do or say. because as long as I'm thinking about a. situation in one way. I can't use a certain strategy or a. script because I'm locked into that. first interpretation. >> So to me the first mindset kind of. difference to notice is whether I'm in a. least generous interpretation mindset or. a most generous interpretation mindset. And we all me too, we have. LGI I call it that comes naturally. My.

kid hits and immediately right? I'm. like, "Oh, my kid's a sociopath. They're. never going to have friends. They're. going to be in jail. They're three.". Meanwhile, right? Least generous. interpretation. >> Yeah. Versus most generous. interpretation. Okay, I have a good kid. who is overwhelmed. I have a good kid. who doesn't have the skills to manage. anger. So I think that's one. And the. other mindset that I work with parents. on all the time. is trying to check in and noticing. whether you're looking at your kid as a. teammate or the enemy. Mhm. And.

least generous interpretation always. casts our kid as the enemy, right? But. when you start to see your kid as a. teammate, kind of like a good coach. Yeah. If you're a coach and you have a. player who's missing layups in every. game even though in theory they know how. to make layups. It's the same thing. No. coach these days, can you imagine a. youth basketball coach being like, "What's wrong with you? Go to your room. until you can make a layup.". The parents [laughter] are like, "I love. that coach. That coach doesn't take. from anyone." You know, you're. like, "What? Like what are they doing in. their room?" You want a coach maybe. pulls the kid out of a game. Maybe.

they're not playing well, that's kind of. the boundary. And then says. "Let's get into the gym early tomorrow.". And you know what a good coach would. probably say? "I had a big championship game. when I missed a lot of layups, too. I mean, that's it. And we're going to work on it. And I believe in you. And we're going to. figure this out together." And what's so. interesting to me about that is I don't. know one parent who would say "That. coach is so permissive." Yeah. "That. coach is so soft.". >> Yeah. Extra time with that kid, it's. basically reinforcing.

bad behavior. I mean, it's so laughable. how we've revolutionized how we think. about being the CEO of a company or a. professional sports coach and how still. parents who see bad behavior as a sign. kids need a certain type of extra help, that's seen as soft and permissive. And. I think when you have a sense of. boundaries and being on the same team. and teaching kids skills, leading with. the truth becomes easier because you're. in a mindset where you actually have a.

system that actually kind of holds. together. I love that you you bring that. up because. that idea I think can be mirrored. directly in society and how we think of. punishing people or how we think of. justice. Yeah. Mhm. Yes. It's it's. really fascinating how many people will. say on like a societal level, "We need. we need to reform our prisons. We need. to reform we need to [snorts] give. people chances. We need to like make. them better." But then in their homes. they treat their kids like criminals. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like.

their kid has a criminal record. Something's missing. I know who always. steals in this house. Then you're like, "Wait, your kid's got a criminal record. in their own house. What are you what. are you doing?" Do you know what I mean? And it's so interesting that this is. where it all begins is if we as a. society can begin from a place where we. go. "You have chances. We're going to give. you options. We're going to show you. that you know like a judge can just say, 'Hey, I actually shoplifted once. I. never went to jail. I'm going to give. you a chance and prove me wrong. Prove me wrong.' You know how many times. I've seen that story go on to be a.

person who becomes extremely successful? All they got was a chance. >> Give them a shot. If I give you a. criminal record and if I give you a. chance, you're the same person. The. difference is one of you gets the. opportunity to become the person that I. think you could be. And and you know, as as as we sort of. wrap up and I I think about all of the. lessons that you that you've taught us. here. I want to know why you why you've honed. in on on the parent and their goodness. as well because this is this is such a. beautiful element that I didn't see. coming, honestly. And yet it became the.

most important in in all of the work we. get into. You talk about generous, less generous. and more generous. It's it sparked a memory of probably my. favorite philosopher Alain de Botton. who said he said in his opinion. love. you know, when people go, "What is. love?" He says love is processing. somebody through the most generous lens. possible. Mhm. That's all it is. Processing through the. most generous lens possible. And then I. found myself thinking while reading your.

book and thinking about parenting. why is it. that people will often be the most. generous with a pet? Mhm. It doesn't matter what a pet does. They'll go, "They chewed my shoes. It's. because I left them at home for too. long." You know, "Oh, they they peed on. on the carpet. It's because I I I made. them nervous and there were fireworks.". And you'll see people they go like, "Oh, but they're a rescue. You must. understand all the things. The reason. they bit you is not because of them, it's because of how you moved towards. them." And this is a beautiful generous. way to see them. Yes. But then they're.

with their kid you'll go, "Why did your. kid do that? Ah.". "Good question." "Little piece of. I don't know why they do anything.". And you do something that's so beautiful. at the end of the book and in your work. You flip the lens. on the parent and you go, "I need you to. remember that you are good inside.". Why is that so important? And what are. you trying to teach parents of children. who are trying to see the good in their. kids?

Well, I mean, that's I think that's why. I find parenting. to be such a compelling topic is because. at once we're talking about a kid and a. parent. You can't help your kid if. you're not doing some type of internal. work. And. anything that's new feels really. uncomfortable. Mhm. That's our body's. way of saying, "This is new. I don't. really have a circuit for this." It's. kind of like skiing down a ski slope. that's never had a track, right? That.

would feel really awkward and. uncomfortable. And for most of us. in human relationships, compassion is. very new. And so new is registered as dangerous, I. think. So compassion feels dangerous. I. see it. Yeah. When I talk about kids'. behavior through a more generous lens, parents uh-oh. So you're saying my kid's. just going to be like this forever? Like. compassion feels dangerous because it's. new. And so in the name of yes both helping. kids but also helping adults, we have to. start with the adult. Like I just firmly.

believe parents every parent loves the. heck out of their kid. And every parent. is doing the best they can with the. resources they have. And if they want to do something. differently. or they want to break cycles or have. some type of intergenerational change, intergenerational change doesn't start. by changing your interaction with your. kid. It starts by changing your. interaction with yourself. Mhm. You have. to change something internally to give. out something new, right? This I feel. like there's a visual on some math.

equation of that. And so yes, I think. being more of the parent you want to be. to your kid probably starts with. recognizing the good inside yourself. Dr. Becky, this was as wonderful as I. hoped it would be. >> Mhm. Thank you so much for the work you do. Thank you. Yeah, because I think all of. us take for granted that every single. person we meet in the world. is the way they are often times because. of how they were parented. And if all of [snorts] us got the hugs. the recognition, the repair, the trust.

and the reassurance that we deserve. >> [music]. >> the world might be a much much much. better place. So thank you very much for. joining us. This was amazing. Thank you. It was really great. Thank [music] you. Hopefully you got to travel to say piece. of twice. Oh good. Is that more. than the average? >> [laughter]. >> It's never happened before. >> Oh wow. This episode is presented by Whole Foods. Market. Whole Foods Market has. everything you need for the holidays, whether you're a guest or hosting the. big dinner. Whole Foods Market has.

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