Don Lemon: Who Is Afraid of the Truth?

Should [music]. I Should I tell my age? >> If we walked in the streets together. now, three of us, I'm not even gassing. up. If we walked together in the. streets, people would not go, "Why are. they with that old guy?". >> No way. >> Yeah. >> They would just be like, "Your friend.". >> They might even say your brother to me. They'd be like, "Uh, you were here with. I think it's your brother.". >> And I would go I try to do your accent, but I [laughter] can't. That is my. brother. >> Uh, >> I don't know. Should I tell my age here? I don't You can tell your age.

>> I'm 60. I turned 60 this year. >> No way. >> Yeah, >> man. >> Don, you look good. >> Like, you look good. Good. Like, I'm not. a side, but I'm just saying, man, >> I was going to say. >> I would I'm not I'm not a side, but Don, yo, you look good. >> I marry Trevor. [laughter]. >> Back off. [music]. >> This is What now with Trevor Noah. >> [music].

[music]. >> I have a pitch. >> Yes. >> For a business or or a structure that we. can implement in society where we find. we find a way. >> business or is a structure that. >> well I don't know I don't know I don't. know which one will work more. effectively. That's why I'm saying it's. just a pitch. But basically what we do. is we get. a. live.

>> Wait, you can't vote against me before. I'm finished. You can't vote against. before I'm finished. >> Okay. >> So this is what I'm saying. Most of the. time our houses are all empty everywhere. in the world. >> Yes. >> Most most abodess are empty. >> Yes. >> Right. >> And most are not humble. >> Yes. That's true. But like. I just think there could be a way for us. to figure out a system where. Okay, cuz let's be honest. Let's be. honest. The the main reason you don't. want living someone living in your house. is why? Let's let's let's list a few.

reasons. No, no, no. Just give me the. reason. >> I'm making this about our pet. with your proposal so we can show first. >> Are you guys rolling on this? [laughter]. >> Okay. >> I want I want to show you that this is. well thought out. >> Okay. >> Is this African on African prime? [laughter]. PUSHED THE ONE OF US. >> Can I Can I just I just observe. something. [laughter]. >> Can I can I jump in? >> Yeah, of course. What do you mean? >> So, uh this is uh what do you call it.

when um Oh, [ __ ] When you I your your. accent is heavier now when you're. >> Oh, yeah. Definitely. >> Yeah. >> 100%. Code switching is what people call. >> you're code switching. >> Yes. But we're going to talk. differently. It's going to happen daily. show. You were talking like a white guy. NO, I'M KIDDING. [laughter]. >> And now you're like, MAN, >> THE WHITE GUY IN PRISON. >> AMEN. AMEN. >> You know, you know what's funny is. actually No, it's it's it's funny that. you said that. >> Yeah. >> For the first. >> I don't think I forgot about your. proposal.

>> No, I'm going to get back to it. For the. first. >> He proposed to you. >> 6 months to [laughter] a year that I was. on the Daily Show. >> Yeah. >> The amount of hate mail that we got. because of my accent, Don. >> No, >> it was I I felt like I had to go for. elecution lessons. [laughter]. people would say he con. So there were. words that people just refused. So for. instance in South Africa when we're. referring to the plural of a woman, >> we say women. That's how we say it. Women. >> Women. >> Women. >> Okay. [clears throat].

>> Right. >> Americans say. >> women. >> Women. Exactly. As if it's not an O. >> Like if it's M. >> Exactly. You said like it's w M. So you. say like women. >> And then in South Africa it would say. women the way it's written. >> Water. And then I mean that one. obviously. >> well the reason we say it that way is. because this is America right and people. like to go you know I am not there's. only two genders we men [laughter]. >> no so like so there was that one. >> what is the other [laughter].

too early. sorry sorry what is what is the other. one I was saying I mean there's the. obvious um aluminium and I don't know. why aluminium was in the script so much. things were happening in the American. government with aluminium. >> you never had to Say mirror. >> Um, mirror I would say. But they. >> Yeah, mirror. I wouldn't say mirror. I. would say mirror. And people would go. this is but it was. >> a deluge as they would say of people. complaining. >> Dela [laughter]. water.

>> Yo. >> Yeah. >> And all they would go this person. >> has no business replacing John Stewart. and beyond just his terrible aptitude. for American politics, he can't even. speak. >> No way. >> Please deal with this. And then I would. have to sit and try and I was like, how. do you say these word? What am I saying? What am I saying wrong? And so I over. time I genuinely had to learn how to say. some of the words in a way. >> But that happens naturally, I think. I. mean, >> yeah. But not not when people are. watching you. >> Those hate meals are not.

>> What was it like for you when you when. did you start cuz I mean I just found. >> I came from Louisiana. That's like. another language. Um, so I I I lost my. southern accent because I would listen. to my voice all the time as a local. reporter and you know, you'd be in the. audio booth recording a track for a. story and you hear your voice and you're. like, I don't like the way that sounds. And so it just naturally corrected. itself over time. And I felt like during. the show that probably would have. happened to you, but I never had an. issue understanding you. I had I. honestly, and this is no shade, >> the only accent there are two accents I. have an issue with or that I can't.

understand. I don't have an issue with. it that it's hard for me to understand. I have to really listen. And they have. to slow down. Scottish. >> Scottish can be hard. >> Indian. >> So why did you say no shade to me? >> I'm neither Scottish or Indian. >> No, but I'm saying we're just talking. about accents. EUGENE. JESUS. [laughter]. >> WHY ARE YOU SO SENSITIVE? You said no. shade and you were like Scottish. >> Yeah. >> And Indian. >> No shade to the Scottish and the Indian. >> Because Eugene, let's be honest, you. have often been referred to as the. Scottish Indian or something. [laughter]. >> True. >> Yeah. But I have to like I have to it's.

got to slow down in order for me to. understand. Depends on Yeah, it depends. on where I think like so Glasgian. the Glaswegian accent can be really from. Glasgow. >> Glasggo. >> they call Glaswegians. >> Yeah. >> And then Edinburgh has a a much softer. one. >> Edinburgh. >> it's a lot it's a lot easier to to to. hear. >> But Indian does isn't that easy for you. >> if they have a tendency to speak fast, right? Scottish, right? And some Irish. people I'm like if you're going too fast. I'm like wait a minute please say that. again. And many times over the phone if.

someone calls you and they're Indian, I. I just say, "You have to really like, can you please slow down? I don't. understand." The second time they say. it, you understand it. But. >> And then you're like, "No, I do not want. spam calls. Thank you [laughter] very. much. Hang up, please. I do not want. >> cuz why is a random Indian call? >> You've never Yeah. >> Oh, in so in in America, most of the. spam calls will come from like India cuz. that's where they've outsourced all of. the call centers to. >> Yeah. >> You don't have it in South Africa from. India. I did notice in your comedy. special that I thought your accent was. was coming back or heavier than when you.

were on the show. >> Well, thank you very much. >> But not in a bad way. I mean, I. >> I appreciate that. I didn't think in a. bad way until you just said [laughter]. >> I never know when you're like being. sarcastic or. >> until Don said, but not in a bad way. I. didn't think it was [laughter] in a bad. You said, "I noticed your accent is. coming back, Trevor." And then I was. like, "Thank you, Don." And you, but not. in a bad way. And I was like, "In a bad. way.". >> I should have just said respectfully. [laughter]. You probably you probably struggle with. those accents because your ear is slow. because you come from the south.

>> My I know I have a lazy tongue. I know. my tongue is slow. >> Yeah, cuz. >> you know that's a thing, right? >> So depending on where you're from, >> is that what they call it? Like when you. have. >> Is it the the draw? >> Draw. >> Southern draw. >> Southern draw. >> Southern draw. >> Can you So when you go home, can you. still do it? >> It just comes back. And then when I come. back to New York, my husband will say, "I can tell when you've been home." And. I say, "Why?" And he says, "Because. listen to how you sound and you look. bloated from all the freaking.

salty and bad food that you're eating.". So I go and I gain 10 pounds. And I end. up saying, "Hey." Instead of like like. when I'm in New York or whatever, I'm. like, "Mom, what are you doing?". >> And then I go home, I come back, I'm. like, "Mama, [laughter]. >> mama, can you I want some eggs, Mom, please." And you just get that you just, "Hey, >> you got to do that. You should do like. reports from home just to like give us. like a different Don Lemon. >> like cuz now I'm Don Lemon. >> Oh yeah. >> That's like a you know Don Lemon. My. good friend Don Lemon reporting live.

>> Every once in a while it comes out and. someone will make fun of it but every. once in a while I'll say something and. like my husband Tim will go y'all. I'm. like. >> you know what Tim needs to stop. We need. to talk to each other because. >> I mean [clears throat]. >> all three of us here are people from the. south. >> And also, you know what I what freaks me. out is Oh, actually doesn't freak me. out, makes me laugh is when we're back. home. >> Yeah. >> And then white people hear Trevor. speaking is it freaks them out all the. time. >> Really. >> freaks them out.

>> Any I don't know why South African. languages people get thrown off, >> I guess. But I take for granted for for. many people in South Africa for at least. for a generation they only knew me from. the Daily Show ironically. So. >> from South Africa. >> because when I left South Africa there's. the generation that knew me from South. Africa doing comedy doing shows etc. I. come to the US I do the Daily Show. There's a whole new generation that. grows up only knowing me from the Daily. Show. >> Yeah. So like I'll meet kids now who are. let's say like 24 somewhere there and.

then when I speak Zulu or Tan or. anything they go. what [laughter]. did you learn that where did I learn. that? These are my languages. >> He's been with me. >> It's like [laughter] when you see a. black man speaking Chinese. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's literally. that. It is literally that. >> What? What? Where does that come from? >> That's my That's my favorite thing when. people. >> How honest can we be in this? How how. candid can we be in this? >> Go. really missed you on the Daily Show. Like really missed you. I don't know. what happened. Not my business. I felt.

like. >> Well, you can ask any questions. >> I feel like I maybe I'm wrong. I felt. like they undervalued what you brought. to the Daily Show. And I would have I. would have I would have fought tooth and. nail to keep you. >> No, no, no, no. Honestly, they did. No. Honestly, they didn't. No. There was no. There was no fight. There was no shade. There was no nothing. All that happened. was. >> I was I had been doing the Daily Show. was going on seven years, right? Mhm. >> The thing that happened was. so [clears throat] there are a few ideas. I have of life that are not congruent. with how Americans run their businesses.

sometimes. Okay. So one of them is I do. not believe that everything has to go on. forever. >> I also believe that people should take. breaks. >> I agree. >> in both directions by the way. >> Both of those things, >> right? So I think you should give an. audience a break and you should give. staff a break and you should give you. like I like that SNL for instance goes. off for a few months. I like that. I. think it's good. I like the TV shows go. away and then come back. John Oliver. takes like a few months off around. December, January, comes back in. February. I like that. >> And so my pitch was, hey, I love what.

we're doing here, but I just like to. take more time. I want to get back home. to South Africa. My accent is fading. People are noticing this. >> Your I need my hair to grow out. >> Yeah, man. I want to like, you know, I. want I I still there's aspects of my. life that I miss. >> And they were like, "No, man. the Daily. Show has to happen the way it does every. sing I was like, "I think there's. another way this could happen." And they. were like, "No." And then I was like, "Okay, it's fine. If you don't agree, then we don't agree, but there's no. beef. There's no fight. My contract is. going to come to an end. So then let's.

let's just wrap it up.". >> I understand. I didn't say there was a. beef or a fight, but I would have. thought I would have given you what you. want. If you needed some time off, I. would have given you and I would like if. they wanted, I would cuz I really. thought that you were really valuable in. that position. But I also think you're. valuable in what you're doing what. you're doing now. And I love how you. like you got a perm now and your hair. you actually have black hair like as we. say nappy before you had good hair. What. happened? What did you do? [laughter]. [laughter].

Uh Don, are you sure you're starting? You know her. Dulce, man, it was one of. the funniest things cuz you and Dulce. say have done a few things together, but. >> Dulce Sloan, we're at the Daily Show. together. >> So, CO happens. >> Yeah. >> Nobody has a barber. I'm not going to. risk trying to cut my own hair. My hair. grows out. >> I realized I only cut my hair frequently. because I had been. >> Yeah. But also like I'd been forced into. it in life. So in school. >> and in South Africa, we we we had this.

uh come up again recently. >> If you had white hair, you can sort of. grow it the way you want. >> Unprofessional hairstyle. [clears throat]. >> If you had black hair, they called it. unprofessional. They called it unckempt. They called it all these things. >> So in school, we had to cut our hair. If. it was this, >> right? >> So you know this. So my whole life, cut. the hair, cut the hair, cut the hair, cut the hair. It just becomes part of. your life. >> Co happens, my hair grows out. I was. like, "Oh yeah, I like having hair. I. miss this.". >> Yeah. I bumped my head. It's not that. bad. It's warmer. Especially in New.

York. Let me tell you something. This. [clears throat] in New York lifesaver. Really? Yo, the amount of warmth in in. winter. The amount of warmth. No. In. summer, it's a it's a liability. >> Bicycle helmet. >> Yeah. >> No, no, no, bro. This is a helmet. What. are you talking about? >> In the summer, I This is what I do. My. hair's does my hair doesn't grow as long. as yours, but I in the winter I let my. hair grow. >> Oh, you let it grow and then it just. gives you. >> I I The only reason that I ever really. cut my hair was because I was on. television. Otherwise, I did I don't. care about hair. Uh I I would rather. just have it shaved like, you know,

>> very low or just let it grow out. But, you know, >> do What about you? Do you miss being. like, you know, >> I don't. >> You don't miss it? >> I do not miss it. I I know it sounds. weird. I don't miss it. I did in the. beginning. It was weird in the beginning. because I was at the Matrix of every big. important story in the world. >> How many years were you at CNN? >> Almost 17 years. >> 17 years. >> Almost 17 years. Yeah. >> Damn. Yeah. And um so it was weird like. I was like what do I do with my time? But I don't miss having to second guess.

I don't know if you felt that way. Maybe. a little bit different because it was. comedy. But you were actually educating. people in the news. Um of like second. guessing, third guessing, fourth. guessing everything that came out of my. mouth because I represented a brand and. like 4,500 employees around the world. Some of them in war zone. So I had to be. careful about what I said. Now I can. just say. >> [ __ ] you or whatever. [laughter]. >> Don's been waiting. and or whatever. >> I grew my hand. [ __ ] you. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Like today, as I was recording my show.

today, there was, you know, the um on. the official Democratic uh Twitter. account, the woman posted um about. Steven Miller. Shut up, you ugly [ __ ]. And I got to talk about that and I said, "Yeah, Stephen Miller is an ugly [ __ ]. right?". >> Oh, you wouldn't have been able to say. that. >> Never. How would you have covered it on. CNN? What would you have said? I on CNN. I would have said. >> unattractive fornicator. >> I would have said WHAT [laughter]. [laughter].

>> unattractive fornicator. [laughter]. >> Oh man. I'm sorry. >> What do you think you would have said? >> Uh I basically I would have handled it. similarly to how I handled it today. Actually, it's not really about physical. attractiveness, although, you know, >> it's also about the policies that he. espouses and what he's putting into. place and that, you know, him um being. uh Islamophobic. >> Yeah. >> Uh his racism, his sexism, his treatment.

of immigrants or whatever, those are. ugly qualities. So, yeah, Steven Miller, >> that. shut up you ugly. Okay. >> Yeah. So, but I would not have said. >> Yeah, he is. >> Yeah. But I would have said, you know, I'm going to talk about I said I would. going to talk about Steven Miller and. calling him that. Look, the the. Democratic party can do what they want, but let me tell you why Steven Miller is. ugly. And I'm not talking about. physically the way he looks. This is how. he's ugly. And that done that on CNN, but ain't nobody doing that now cuz they. scared. >> Yeah, [snorts] everyone is scared, man.

>> Except. >> everyone is scared. I saw um. >> the woman whose segment got pulled by. CBS. They just didn't renew her. contract. They Yeah. >> What did she do? She had a story on SECOT um just SECOT. which is I think some um uh place where. they're housing um immigrants and. detainees and all that stuff at a SECOT. and then they the new boss came in came. in that was great grammar. the new boss. came in and is um MAGA coded the the um.

uh the company and the the folks who are. running the company and just pulled her. segment saying we need we need to get a. response from the White House and we. need to do more reporting after it had. already been vetted by everyone at 60. Minutes like you don't get more vetting. than 60 minutes. >> yeah you don't. >> so uh it was obvious what was happening. and she said, "What is going on here? This has been vetted by, you know, this.

number of people and it's gone through. our process and it's [clears throat]. legit journalism. We all stand by it.". And then they said, "No, eventually they. did." I think they ran it. I'm not sure. if they ran it, but they ended up. running it. >> um in foreign countries. >> Oh. And. >> outside of the US, and then I guess they. didn't whoever's there don't they didn't. realize that this is going to run. somewhere else. >> Oh, wow. >> And so Yeah. She's gone. Yeah, everyone. everyone is scared. [clears throat]. >> Everybody's scared. >> What what's disappointed me is it's.

equal parts scared and equal parts. greed. >> You know what I mean? >> Explain the greed part. >> So we say that everyone's scared. >> But I don't think it's only fair. I. think a lot of people are putting their. greed before the freedoms of the. country. >> All right. and and a lot of these. networks, these news networks, whether. it's CBS, whether it's all of them, they're not just scared. They're also. thinking about what they want to do. business-wise. They want to acquire. other companies. They want mergers and. acquisitions to go through. They want.

So, because they want that to happen, >> they're [clears throat] not saying. anything. >> Mhm. >> But they should be saying something, but. they won't say something because they. want their deals to go through. >> So, it's like it's half scared, >> half greed. I would argue the people on. the ground, like the actual reporters. and the journal, they're scared because. they're going to get fired, you know. Did you see this thing where they said. they're going to um they actually they. want to subpoena people's records and. like your private cuz you know, if. you're a journalist, you know it better. than we do. Explain it. If you if you.

have a source, you don't have to reveal. your source to reveal your source. >> Right. But now they're saying. >> journalists have privileges. They have, you know, um privileges like that, right? Um, I'm going through it right. now and I didn't even know about it. >> Wait, what? >> Yeah. So, when they u, you know, they. arrested me in in California. Uh, >> yes. What What happened there? What. exactly happened? [laughter]. >> Wow. This. >> But you were like, G about it, though. You like thugged out. You're like, um, [laughter]. you didn't back down. I thought you were. going to be like You're like,

man, I'm going in, man. Going though. who Julio, I'm going in though. You were. not scared at all. Don, >> no. >> That was like scared. It was It was a. bit frustrating, but why would I be. scared? I'm not scared. I'm not afraid. of anything. >> I'm not scared of jail. Don't Don't even. >> You're scared of. >> Hey. Yeah. Jail. >> Jail. Oh, >> jail. >> Yeah. But then you think about I think. about the people who did go to jail so.

that I could be able to sit here and do. this. >> Um, this is nothing compared to that. And look, I have agency. I have a. platform. You know, I um I have. resources that most people don't have. So, if I became scared about what was. happening, then what use am I to the. people who really need me to not be. scared? >> I like that. >> So, um the what happened was uh I went. to Minneapolis. Actually, I was on my. way. I blamed Jesse Jackson. So, I was.

[laughter]. and I blamed Dr. King. So, I had to go. to Chicago because I was hosting the Dr. King breakfast, uh, sponsored by Jesse. Jackson, the Rainbow Push in Chicago. So, I was headed there. >> and I started talking. I was, you know, in a kitchen and Tim and I were saying, "Oh, you know, I got to go to Chicago, whatever, but Minneapolis is happening.". He said, "Maybe you should make a stop. over in Minneapolis. It's" And I said, "You know what? You're right. So, I'm. just going to go there in the morning. and then I'll go a day earlier. I'll go. there and then I'll fly straight to. Chicago, right? I'll just go there for a.

day and be on the ground." and I was on. the ground for less than 6 hours or. something or like that. And so I just. went to report on what was happening and. uh there was uh you know they were at. this center where they keep all the. people that they detain. And so but it. was too early. I got there early in the. morning. It was too early to go there. There's hardly anyone there. And I said, "Where am I going to go? What am I going. to cover?" And there were people saying, "Oh, this is happening. You should go. cover this." And I said, "Okay, I'll go. cover that." And what was the this. >> that they it was this clandestine.

operation like the civil rights movement. where they show up and they disrupt. >> Oh, got it. Okay. >> And so I showed up with them and I was. like, "Oh, they're going into this. church." And I said, "Okay, we're not. going to go and do anything until it. happens." Because then when it happens, it becomes news. >> Okay, got it. Got it. Got it. So I do. that, go in there, report, do the thing. that I had no connection to the people. who were sponsoring this. I didn't know. where we were going uh cuz we had to. follow them and then um that was it. And. then I started hearing things like, "Oh, we're gonna arrest him for disrupting.

for going in and protesting and. disrupting a religious service." I'm. like, "I didn't do anything. I'm not a. protester. I'm a journalist." And what. if I had not been there to chronicle it. for you, >> right? If something had that's what we. do, journalists go where the news is. And I got um uh a call from someone who, you know, has been doing this for a long. time. And he said, "You know what, Don? when John Miller, who was um you know in. charge of communications for the NYPD. and then he was a a reporter at one. point. He said when John Miller went.

into the cave with Osama bin Laden, he. didn't become a terrorist. >> He was still a journalist. So when I. went into the church to report, I didn't. become a protester. >> I'm still a journalist. And I somehow. this administration doesn't understand. that. So. >> understand it or don't want it to. happen. >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> I don't want to understand which I think. is even more pernitious. Right. So um I. could they were saying, "Oh, we're going. to arrest him. they're going to do this. And they went to two or three, maybe. three different sources to get an arrest. warrant for me, and it didn't work. So,

they went to a grand jury, which is just. normal everyday people. And it's a. secretive process. And so, who knows. what they presented to this grand jury. in order to come up with an indictment. for me. And so, I was in the in LA. covering the Grammys. >> I just come back from a Spotify party. >> with the photographer who's here. I. blame him. [laughter]. >> His name is Andre. And he's like, "We. were at the party.". >> Anders, Jesse Jackson, and Dr. King. We've got this list. We got this list. >> So, Anders, Anders was like, "Hey, come. on. One more. One more margarita. One.

more margarita." And I was listening to. Anders. Who was it the last person I. saw? I forget who it was. I don't know. if it. >> was um Oh, I don't know. >> My milkshake brings all the boys to the. yard. Keith. No, no, it's a new group or whatever. >> Young blood. >> Yeah. And so anyways, so watching them, it was great. And then I go back. >> What? >> Cats eye. >> Cats eye. Cats eye. Cat eye. Got it. >> So, uh, I get back to the hotel. I'm. getting onto the elevator and then I got. bumrushed.

>> That's how it happened. >> That's how it happened. And I was like, "What are you doing?" They said, "We're. here to arrest." I said, "Where's the. warrant?" They didn't have one. They had. to go outside. And as I'm scuffling, trying to get my bearings, uh, they had. to go outside, get the FBI agent, and he. shows me a warrant on the phone, like a. cop, a picture, and I was like, "Okay, I. don't know what that means, but anyway.". And so I ended up spending about 12. hours. uh in custody, and I came out and did. what you said, but um you you asked me. what happened.

>> Mhm. >> That's what happened. And right now, they've had my phone for 4 months. They. took my phone. They've had it for 4. months. >> Like speaking to you right now, they. still have your phone. >> Oh, they still have my phone. >> What do you think they're doing with it? >> They want to go through to find. evidence. There's nothing there. >> But do they do you give them the. passwords? How does it work? >> Evidence of a conspiracy. No, they look. >> What do you mean they don't need it? >> They don't need a password. >> Yes, they do need a password. Go on. >> They're going to have to use that. software. I don't know if that software. still works. >> What is it? Pegasus. Is that what it's.

called? I don't remember. But remember. there's a software. I think it was first. developed in Israel and then it was like. sent around the world or people had. bought it or whatever. But. >> I'll give you an exclusive. >> Go. >> The high the newer iteration the the. newer the iteration of the iPhone, the. harder it is to get into it. >> Oh, >> they can't get into my phone. >> Well, there you go. Did they Did they. ask you for the password? >> They initially. >> Did they try to make you look at your. phone? No. [laughter]. >> I've always wondered if they do. >> I don't have it. But no, but I'm saying.

because I'm saying like I wonder you. because there's a weird thing I I. >> there's a there's a. >> if I understand American law correctly, apparently they cannot force you to give. them your password. >> They can ask you. >> Yeah. Yeah. But they but they still. can't force you. >> Yeah. >> But if it's fingerprint or face, then. you do have to do it. >> I don't know. >> And I don't know. I don't understand. what the difference is. >> I don't know about that. >> I'll I'll look it up now. I I promise. you. I promise you this.

>> Look it up, [clears throat]. >> my man. On your phone. >> I got you, bro. On your iPhone. [laughter] Don't even worry. I got. What's your password? >> I got you, bro. Don't even worry. I got. you. I got you. [laughter] I got you. >> There's something. Uh, let me Let me. see. >> Why didn't you hold it up to your face? >> Let me see. No, it already it unlocked. when I looked at it. [laughter]. >> Unlock. I've got nothing to hide. Don't. worry about it. >> You've got nothing to hide. >> Ah, me. >> Yeah. The last thing I want is anyone. taking my phone. >> What are they going to find? [laughter]. >> Uh-oh. Where's your phone? In fact, you. cannot get prosecuted. >> In fact, I'm even pitching.

>> That's [clears throat] what I was going. to say. >> I'm even pitching. >> for for for penis portraits, as you call. them, >> or butt jobs. [laughter]. >> I don't judge. I don't judge. I don't. judge. [laughter]. >> I I don't judge. >> I don't know who's a top and who's a. bottom. [laughter]. >> And And it's not my business. I don't. care. >> Uh let's see here. I'll find I'll find. it. I'll find. >> Or aside. You could be a side. literally. done what we do to each other all the. [laughter] time. I know it sounds so. bad. >> Is this what it sounds like when we.

[laughter]. >> So why are you looking? >> Did you say a side? >> Yeah, a side. You don't know what a side. is? >> No, I've never heard of that. >> This is like There's no top or bottom. It's a side. >> That's a thing. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah. >> I knew I knew there was top and bottom. I didn't know that there was a side. >> There's a side. >> Huh? Wait, you said a side does what? >> A side just kind of lays there on the. side like you're, you know, >> or you take care of yourself or each. other. Wow. I would have gone with a. middle. I don't know why they went with. a side. >> It's called a side. >> But a side is a better name.

>> Yeah. >> You know why? It evokes an image in your. head. >> Yeah. But I mean, if you have top. bottom, you want a side. You don't want. to be like in the middle. I don't. >> I guess so. But I that's that's what I. would have thought. [laughter]. >> So, while you're looking, let me tell. you the thing. Uh, I did not realize it. until yesterday that they had filed. secretly um a subpoena for. my YouTube channel. to get my subscribers and members or.

subscribers names, addresses, and phone. numbers. And the judge said, >> "No, >> guys. What do we This judge said no. Why. would they Why would they want that? Either they want it to kill my business, to intimidate me, or to intimidate. people who watch me. It's crazy. Or to. create a list. >> Did you find it? >> What are we doing? >> I found it. So, the legality of um. compelled unlocking hinges on. protections against unreasonable. searches, fourth amendment, and. self-inccrimination, fifth amendment. So, pass cords and passcodes and pins.

The fifth amendment generally protects. your testimonial acts. Okay? So courts. across the country widely agree that the. government cannot force you to hand over. a passcode or a PIN as doing so forces. you to reveal the contents of your own. mind. >> Right. >> Right. That's the key thing. So you're. testifying against yourself by giving. your password. [clears throat]. >> However, the law regarding biometric. locks is highly fractured. Biometrics. are generally treated as physical. evidence like DNA swabs or a lineup.

Meaning some courts have ruled that. police can physically force you to. unlock your phone using your face or. your thumb. >> because they're saying that's not the. contents of your mind. You're not. testifying against it's essentially like. putting your fingerprints. >> I think you can fight that. >> cuz I would say I had to think about. this. >> Mhm. >> When I looked at the phone, I had to. think about what. >> depends [laughter] on the court. Depends. on the court. But it's literally So. remember when people were getting. detained at the border, there was a. moment where it was like a a real flare.

up. Yeah, [snorts]. >> the message they gave everyone was, "Hey, make sure you don't have Face ID. and Touch ID and everything on your. phone. Make sure your phone just uses a. passcode because they can't force you to. give um them a passcode.". >> Interesting. >> So, I was surprised that they didn't. just be like, "Yo, Don, look here. Hey, [laughter] Don. Hey, Don. Can I ask you. can I ask you a question?". >> I don't think they even had a warrant. yet when they took it. >> Damn. Four months. So, what have you are. there some people that you now haven't. spoken to for 4 months and you're happy. about it? [laughter].

That's a good one. That's. >> Come on, bro. What a great excuse to get. people out of your life. I wanted to get. back to you. Do you know what happened. to my phone? >> But it's true that did happen because. the phone is what is it called? Um iOS. Yeah. >> And some of the text messages come. through the iOS system rather than just. your phone number. Yeah. >> So I don't get every single text I. haven't gotten. And sometimes I'll be. sitting in front of the computer and. something I was like, where did this. come from? >> Exactly. India. >> Yeah, [laughter].

>> exactly. >> Nigeria. >> Don't think we forgot. >> Forgot what? >> The business idea. >> Okay. So, my pitch was pretty simple. It's a really simple idea. >> Business or societal. >> proposal. >> Mhm. If our homes are as empty as they. are and and and not in like a negative. way, it's just most people you wake up. in the morning, you leave the house to. go to work, >> you only come back in the evening. Your. house was empty for the entire day.

>> The main reason you don't want somebody. in your home is because you think. they're going to break things, change. things, steal things, [clears throat]. smell up the place, whatever it is, use. up your air conditioning. >> All of this, all of this. But imagine if. we could find a way to pair each other. up with your perfect house partner. Someone who lives exactly like you. Exactly like you. Like, and there's got. to be somebody cuz we're not that. interesting or unique as people. There's. got to be somebody who has the same. match. >> Yeah. Your lifestyle Tinder match. They.

they they use your colog. They would. sort of dress like you. They you know. what I mean? And we And. >> you, but you're not there. >> Yes. You, but they work night shift. >> Opposite shifts of you. >> Opposite shift of you. And so then. whenever like you leave your house, they. come in, they come in and whenever you. come back, they leave and then you guys. you get to like help each other pay and. then homes are not sitting empty and you. need less housing cuz right now we have. a housing crisis. But if you think about. it, most housing is sitting empty the. whole day and then you just have your. perfect partner that's coming in.

>> But if I have a girlfriend, do they talk. to her while I'm not there or. >> No, >> where do we draw the line here? >> We'll we'll have to figure this out is. what I'm saying. So, you have to live. alone. That sounds like pretty much. every marriage I know is what you're. saying. That sounds. >> No, there's a there's not everyone has. someone who just stays in their house. Your girlfriend is not always just at. your house. That's a That's a. [laughter]. >> Is your girlfriend always at your house? >> Hey, D. >> Are you Sometimes are [laughter] you. >> Sometimes are you like, "Okay, I need a.

break." So, >> did I say that, Trevor? Sometimes I need. a break. How do [laughter]. >> But but you know what? When you said. people need a break, I do think that. couples need a break that way. Sometimes. like uh sometimes need. >> definitely. >> sometimes I'll go in the guest room and. snooze, watch TV, and sleep in there and. and maybe one of the dogs will follow me. in. But and I get a great. >> Actually, can I ask you a question. though? How so? How does your husband. respond to this? >> At first, he was weird about it. And I I. said, but here's the thing, Trevor. I It. took me I didn't get married until I was.

>> in my 50s. >> Wow. So, I had been. >> You're over 50. I That's what I was. saying. Wow. To. >> No, no, Don. I'm being I'm being You. need to come back home. >> Should I Should I tell my age? >> If we walked in the streets together. now, the three of us, I'm not even. gassing up. If we walked together in the. streets, people would not go, "Why are. they with that old guy?". >> No way. >> Yeah. >> They would just be like, "Your friend.". They might even say your brother to me. They'd be like, "Uh, you here with I. think he's your brother.". >> And I would go, I try to do your accent, but I can't. [laughter].

That is my brother. Uh, >> I don't know. Should I tell my age here? I don't know. >> You can tell your age. >> I'm 60. I turned 60 this year. >> No way. >> Yeah, >> man. >> Don, you look good. >> Thank you. >> Like, you look good. Good. >> Like, I'm not a side, but I'm just. saying, man. >> I was going to say, >> I would I'm not I'm not a side, but Don, yo, you look good. >> I'm Mary Tremor. [laughter]. >> Back off. Thank you. I thank you. I appreciate. [clears throat] that. It's weird to say.

that because I don't feel that at all. >> No, you like you like. >> of broadcasters. [laughter]. >> How? >> I'm a Forel cer. What? >> Look at your Look at your skin. Look at. your like everything. >> Not Not a stitch of makeup. That's one. thing I do not miss about corporate. >> The makeup was terrible. Oh my god. >> Yeah, the makeup was terrible. >> It takes your skin. >> You don't need it. >> It's It takes your skin, bro. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, so you tell your husband like, "Look, after how many years of being. together, do you say I think sometimes. we need a timeout?".

>> I don't say I need a timeout. I just. >> I just go in the guest room. I'm like, "Ah, I need I need. >> But the first time it happened, Don. >> Oh, he's like remember there was a time. >> You're not sleeping in here with us.". I'm like, "I'm I'm right next door like. relax." And then I said, "I'm just going. to go and watch TV for a little bit.". And then I You have to like ease in and. then fall asleep. And then I didn't. And. sometimes I would wake up before he. would woke up and go. >> This is actually great. I'm taking notes. for sure. >> People that marry each other and live. together, they first start by dating, right? >> Yeah. >> They hang out and then sleepovers.

happen. Then stay overs. Then a person. goes, "But I think I like having you. around. Let's do this thing every day.". >> How do we go from I'll see you on a. Tuesday. I'll see you the whole week. I'll see you the whole year to I think I. need three days or two hours apart from. you. >> I charge $130 an hour. So you come on. Let [laughter] me tell you, >> I've had lots of therapy every week. sometimes. Um, how do you go from that? I think that's that's a choice. And I. think whatever works for whatever. relationship that relationship you're.

in. I told him I'm like, I'm not good. with sleeping in the same bed with. someone. I just I don't sleep well. >> when you started dating or now when. you're married. >> Always. And I just said I have been. single for so long and able to walk into. my house and just do if I want to like. drop my underwear at the floor at the. door. I don't do that. But I, you know, I I was just alone for so long. I think. I just got used to it. And also, it's. weird because I am a loner. People think. like. >> you're this I'm this extrovert and so. I'm a sort of extrovert introvert.

>> That's Yeah. >> Um, but I actually really love being by. myself. And that doesn't mean I love my. husband any less and I don't want to be. married to him, but I love I am very. content being alone. >> People don't understand. >> Then how did you make that transition. then? Because if you like being alone, you don't mind your own company, this is. the guy that you chose. You're like, "Let's do this thing." Whose idea was. living together? >> Uh [laughter]. cuz there's always one person that goes, "This would be nice every day." Like, "I. love ice cream." [laughter]. >> Every day.

>> My fee is going up to 150. [laughter]. >> Uh I think he decided I mean we we're. like lesbians. Like the third date it. was he like moved in. It was like he had. a moving truck. No. Um, [laughter]. he kind of decided I would come up and. remember I worked nights and I would. come home like after midnight because I. worked late at CNN. They had the 10 to. usually midnight hour and first couple. times I come home and he'd be on my. couch. I'm like, oh, hey, all right. And. I was like, I guess I can't, you know, I.

guess it's us because what if I had. invited somebody over? Um, and I was. like, the how'd you get? He goes, oh, the door man. It was fine. I mean, because we had he had been coming over, the door man knew him or whatever. And. then he started bringing his laundry. over. I was like, I said, "You really. like me because I have a washer and. dryer in my apartment, [laughter]. in my condo, not because you you know, really." And he goes, "That was a joke.". But I think he decided that. And I'm. okay with it. I'm okay with that. Someone has to decide. Someone has to. make the move. >> Yeah. >> Then at some point you're like, I think.

I'll be in the other room hanging out. THEN HE WAS LIKE, >> "NO, not all the time. Every once in a. while, you know, like if you're if. someone goes on a business trip, you're. like, I GET TWO DAYS." [laughter]. It's true though. Two days in the bed by. myself. >> Yeah. You know, you know why? So, if you. if you are an introvert, one of the. things people take for granted is that. your battery is charged differently to. an extrovert, >> right? >> So, extroverts. in broadstrokes are people who gain. energy from being with other people. >> Mhm. >> So, the more they're with other people,

the more energy they get. And the more. people that come in, the more energy. they get. So, if you if you're with an. extrovert at a party, you'll see this. The more people who walk into the room, the more energy they get. The more. energy they get, the more energy they. get, the more And if you're an. introvert, you'll notice the opposite. >> Yeah. >> When the party only has like 10 people, you're good. >> 15, 20, 25, 30, 45. And then you're. like, uh, when are we going? Okay. When. are we when are we going home? I'm. ready. I'm ready. The extroverts like. the party just started. >> Yeah. So when you're an introvert, even. if you are with your person,

>> sometimes you just need to be by. yourself to recharge. It's not about the. other person. You just want to recharge. yourself and then come back to being. with other people. So I can completely. relate to that. >> And you know what complicates it? If. you're in the public eye and you're an. introvert because everyone people are. like people assume, oh my god, hey Don. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Can I get a picture? Can we do a selfie? And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you get home. away from that drain the whole time, it's draining you the whole time. So. then you're like, "Okay, I just want to.

sit on the couch and if someone comes to. sit next to you, it's okay." But then. you want like it would be great just to. have my space so that I can. >> Yeah. [sighs]. >> Yeah. Because I you know I you we have. to be on sometimes. >> Yes. >> We have to be on. >> What's a perfect match for the type of. personalities that you guys described? An introvert, extrovert. What would be. the perfect personality to be around? >> I think you adapt. It's not really a. perfect personality. You just have to. adapt. But because if you have someone. both of you are the same thing,

>> I don't know. Maybe that makes you. closer or that at least physically. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know. I just think it's I. don't know if. >> is your husband an extrovert? >> Uh it's weird. Yeah. I think he doesn't. realize he's an extrovert. >> Yeah. You made friends with the Dorman? >> Yeah, that's true. My husband is um a little bit more. sociable than I am, but um I have a very. large group of friends that we hang out. with in the city and my friends have. become his friends. And so um.

>> I I find that he likes to entertain. more. He likes to go to dinner and all. and I would be I'm like uh Uber Eats. Seamless like what are we going to do. tonight? >> Huh? [laughter]. >> He he takes me out. Hec Eugene forces me. >> to go out. >> That's what happened. Look at the. Grammys. They're like, "Let's go to this. party." I'm like, "Okay, I'll go.". >> And look what happened. We got arrested. >> Look at what happened. >> Look at [laughter] what happened. I keep. telling you, this is why we don't go. outside. We're going to get arrested, bro. I keep telling you, all my all my.

extrovert friends, I'm like, "Where are. we going? Where are we going?" Eugene is. like, "Come on. [laughter] Are we. ordering in again? Come on. Let's eat. out. It's you. It's Lawrence. Everyone, let's go out. Come on." [laughter]. That's how you go to jail, bro. If. Nelson Mandela got Uber Eats, he would. have never went to Robin Island. When. did they catch Nelson [laughter]. Mandela? Where was Nelson Mandela? Driving outside. 27 years in prison. If. that man got Uber Eats, he would have. been [laughter] comfortable in his. house. >> He wouldn't be going to the restaurant. and trying to find some.

>> I would be enjoying himself. [laughter]. Ah, what a great time I'm having. That's. gather. He'd be at home enjoying. [laughter] himself. 27 years, Eugene. We're going to continue this. conversation right after this short. break. >> [music]. >> Can I ask you something? Yeah. I know. this is not my show. I'm going to ask. you a question. >> Ask what do you mean? This is joking. This is literally your show. Do whatever. you want. >> Do you miss being in corporate media?

>> Not at all. Not at all. It. >> You were surprised that I said that, too. >> No, no, no. I was surprised that you. said you don't miss the But then I think. you answered my question when you. followed up. What I was asking is do you. miss the job? Not I didn't even think of. it as corporate media. >> I was asking if you if you miss the job. because I think this applies to everyone. regardless of whether they were on TV or. radio or you know anything public. facing. >> We take for granted how much the thing.

we do slowly becomes who we think we. are. >> Right? >> Someone and people say this with such. confidence. You go hey my name's Mike. Hi Mike. Uh, tell me about yourself. Well, I'm a doctor. >> It's amazing how that's the first thing. people lead with. I am. >> what I do. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and then if you take that away from. them, all of a sudden they don't have an. I am anymore, >> right? >> And people will sometimes even lead with. that. Hey, Mike. So, tell me about. yourself. Well, I used to be a doctor.

You're like, wait, what do you mean? What? Why would you tell me about what. you used? I used to be a kindergartener. I don't tell you that. [laughter]. >> You know what I mean? >> True. But it's interesting how we've. we've really made what we do who we are. >> and it I think it's amplified when. you're in the public eye because people. see you as. >> identify you. >> Exactly. So now when you're no longer. doing that, they don't know how to place. you. So they're like, "Don Don Lemon.". >> Yeah. >> So like what are you. >> what are you what's going on? What are. you doing now? >> Yeah. It's that [laughter] it's like a.

it's because and I understand it. People. are not trying to be [ __ ] People. are going, I only know you. >> through your job. >> So if you do not have your job, I do not. know how you exist anymore. >> That's right. >> Because you've never existed to me. without the job. So I was just asking. you if you miss the job itself, like the. journalisming, but then you know, as we. continue talking, I realized you're. still doing that. >> I'm still doing I'm basically doing the. same thing, but just with more freedom. Yeah. But talking speaking of therapy, I. I had a lot of therapy in my life. because I think it's really good for.

you. Yeah. So, I never thought that I. was my job ever. Like, >> that's the best place to be. >> Never thought that I was my job. And. like you, I know that all things, good. or bad, come to an end. And eventually, we will come to an end. >> See, that's the big one. >> So, when that's over, >> if if the universe has taken care of me. for all these eenth years, why would I. think that it's going to fail me moving. forward? >> I know. There's [clears throat] the. universe guy. You can talk to him. >> Yeah. Why? Why now? So [laughter] I I. look is it do I like the way I was.

treated on my way out? Do I like the in. injust the you know sort of unfairness. of it all? No. >> What happened to you on on that? Because. it it happened so quickly and it seemed. like there was just craziness at CN. What actually happened? >> It's the same thing that h that's. happening to CBS and and this and other. networks now. Um, we they they sold the. company and the people who came in. wanted to make room for more. conservative voices. I don't have a. problem with that, but they wanted to. make room for MAGA voices and people who.

came on who were insurrection deniers. and election deniers and just coming on. to lie. And I thought like this is a. journalistic organization. There is no I. don't believe in the false equivalency. There is no there's no equivalence to um. someone who's coming on and giving you. factual information about what's. happening in the country and someone who. you know is lying. >> Yeah. >> It's like substituted. >> that the election was stolen like that. is not true. >> We all know that. So why are you giving. this person so much room because. >> um I think that the what journalism and.

journalists are supposed to do is inform. >> and educate and give facts. So, we can. still cover a story without giving. someone a platform to just come on and. directly lie to the American people like. Donald Trump would do during, you know, his um rallies during the first term. And then people realize, okay, we can't. we can't do that because people start to. believe it. So, um I believe that when. you if you have the privilege of going.

on to a CNN or any network or daily. show, it is a privilege. It's not a. right. You don't have the right to go. there. So you should respect the. platform. >> and the people enough to be honest with. them and tell the truth. So anyway, they. wanted to make more room and move the. network to the right. And I don't. believe news is right or left. It's it. just is. And so I would challenge. conservatives who came on the line. They. did not like it. And so what I believe. in my opinion is that they were coming.

up with a predicate to get rid of me. So. they moved me to the mornings or they. came up with this idea. This is great. for the mornings or whatever. And then. um from there it just sort of I uh. people think that I got fired for. something that I said about Nikki Haley. but that was not it. I had an um uh an. interview with uh VC Ramaswami. >> Yeah. >> On the morning show. I didn't even know. he was coming on. It was not my guest. It was like my co-anchor's guest. >> And I was like when they said VC Rwam. Swami is coming I'm like okay that's. Poppy's guest. I don't not my business.

And so he came on and he started lying. about things. And I'm like sitting there. going, "Black people got their rights. because of the NRA. Because the NRA. fought for black people's rights during. the Civil War.". >> This is what he was saying. >> And I was like, "Bro, [laughter]. none of this [ __ ] is true." And nobody. was checking him. And I said, "That is. not true." And he goes, "We have to be. able to have these conversations." I. said, "Yeah, if the conversation is. true, you have to be honest on both. sides." The NRA wasn't even around for.

the Civil War. Like, what the [ __ ] are. you talking about? 4 days later, I was. gone. And then they rushed. a press conference to announce Charles. Barkley and Gail King's show because. they had gotten rid of their only black. anchor. and prime time anchor. You know what's always fascinated me is. why in America the. like let's call them whatever people.

want to call them you know mainstream/. whatever organizations why they always. want to pander. to a group that cares not to pander to. them in any way shape or form. So, I. don't remember Fox News ever going on a. binge where they were like, "We need to. get as many liberal people on this. network as possible or [clears throat]. or Newsmax or any of them.". >> And Fox is the most profitable, the most. profitable news channel. >> But I I don't understand it. They've. never once gone, "Ah, we don't have. enough of these voice. Let's get them.

on.". >> Because it doesn't work. >> Yeah. But but why does that happen? >> Because the people who own the companies. think like that. They are right-wing. Many of them are MAGA. the ones who are. buying the companies now that makes. sense are Donald Trump supporters. >> There was a um Ellison who owns Par. There was a Donald Trump appreciation. dinner during the White House. correspondence dinner. So they are very. transparent about it. But yet on the. other side when you are centrist or. liberal you're like oh I can't do that. That's a conflict of interest. They. don't give a [ __ ] about that.

>> No they don't. No they they're living. their dream. I will say I will say but. that's but that's the thing I don't miss. is like so I I think I think that's. where Eugene and I talk about this all. the time. We are in an interesting age. of media where. the the structures that people have have. have [clears throat]. ordained for so long are going to fall. apart because. they don't present people with anything. real anymore. I it all feels like a faximile of real.

It feels like it's like it's. manufactured. It feels like it's. manicured. It feels like it's, you know, so. >> put on. >> Yeah. So, so you you you find yourself. watching the news going, >> "Is this the news? Is this what's. happening? Is this what's actually going. on? Is this you know what I mean?". >> Yeah. If you if you look at it through. any lens, news, sports coverage, um you. know, documentaries, whatever you you. >> It's interesting to see how the ones. that are actually really experiencing. growth are the ones that just feel.

authentic. Whether or not you're for. them is irrelevant. >> Yeah. >> But the authenticity is is is what's. >> and that's what's driving independent. media right now is the authenticity. But. you're faximile is a very good word. It's almost like stepped wise. That's. exactly what it is called into it and. you're like and you just start watching. >> That's exactly what that's how I feel. sometimes now when I'll watch in the. occasions the moments when I'll watch. the news. >> the real news. >> No, like Stephen of those it'll be like. it's almost like welcome. We're going to. talk about a story now and we have one.

guest. Hello. What what is happening? Oh, many people have been killed. Oh, wow. Well, we have someone else who says. the opposite. Many people have not been. killed. Oh, what do you think? They have. been killed. What do you think? They. have not been killed. Well, that's all. we have time for. Now, time for our next. story. >> And you're sitting there going, >> "Wait, so what happened?". >> Yeah. What happened? >> So, what happened? >> Nothing. Or it's this. I can't stand. you. [ __ ] you. Or you and it's like. fighting around the table and you're.

like, "What is being accomplished here? I I hate that." Um, you're right. That's. what's happening. And the authenticity. is being in um independent media or. being an independent journalist. I don't. miss that because before, you know, my. show was a little bit different cuz I. sort of relaxed. I was the last person. on 10:00 at night. But, you know, no one. has conversations like that. No one sits. around in cocktail dresses and suits. with neck ties on and they're like, [laughter]. >> "Now we're going to have a conversation. right now, Trevor.".

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> How are you, Eugene? What do you think? >> Mhm. >> Eugene, [laughter]. right? But stand by. >> Almost answered you. >> Stand by. I'm going to. >> Do you WANT TO KNOW WHAT I THINK? [laughter]. >> I'm going to bring someone in and we're. going to have uh we're going to FaceTime. with Rob. Rob, you are standing there in. the bar that we were talking about these. guys. Hey, >> what's going on, Rob? Like, who talks. like that? >> And so, I think people I think also co.

changed us. >> It actually did, man. >> Because people got used to seeing people. in a natural environment and they're. like, "Oh, I kind of like this." So, I. do my show from I have like a little. studio. I got rid of my dining room. table just like this where my dining. room once was. And I was like, why don't. I set it up in the in my dining room and. so that's where I do the show. And I. come on. I'm like, hey everybody. So. glad you're with us today. >> What am I [sighs and gasps] going to. talk about? >> Okay. >> You do it co style. >> Yeah. And you just you just go, "Ah, what am I going to talk about? This guy.

needs. >> I could be doing this. We could talk. about this, but this is what's on my. mind right now. >> This was our topic the whole of. yesterday. Is it you see what I'm. talking about? >> The whole of yesterday is what we spoke. about. >> There's no The thing is is that there is. no I mean I have a plan. >> but um there is a I'm not trying to get. anything out of it. I'm not trying to. make sure that we keep an audience. minute by minute. There's no agenda. The. only agenda is to tell the truth and to. engage with people. >> I know.

>> Yeah. >> This was a topic the whole day cuz we. said when people stop making a show, that's when the show gets made. >> That's it. You usually see it with car. reviewers on YouTube. >> Yeah. >> When a manufacturer launches a certain. model, it's all about the technical. stuff, the caring, they're selling you. But when a reviewer gets hold of it and. says, "I don't like this, but I love. this and I hate that and I love that.". >> That actually gets more traction and. makes you go, "Do I want the car or. don't I want the car?" And with people. like you who have authority. >> and obviously experience in what you do, when you sit down and go,

>> "Let's just figure it out together.". Yeah, >> that makes the conversation more much. more interesting. >> Yes, >> I I agree. And the thing is there's a. one thing that I'm not a fan of um with. independent media. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> You don't know. [laughter]. >> Where's my phone? Tim, can I get a hall. pass? I want to show this. [laughter]. He's lucky he doesn't have his phone.

You were SO CLOSE TO CINDY. John had his. phone. [laughter]. >> What I'm not a fan of is feeling like I. have to sell something because we don't. have large large. >> corporate met sponsorships. I would like. to not have to go. And here's a word. from our sponsor. I don't like that. I'm. not That's not my favorite part. I swear. it's like you It's like you. >> you were there. >> We have to sell it. >> But it's like you were there. I I was having this conver literally.

yesterday and I was saying this to. Eugene, my friend Ryan. We all hanging. out there. >> and I said this is what people don't. even understand in politics right now. One of the main reasons Donald Trump has. done so well and continues to win. people. I mean now he's losing them. because of Iran. He he always lose It's. funny Trump always wins people with his. rhetoric and loses people with his. actions. Yeah. you know policy same. thing happened during like he wins the. election and then when you're like when. he has to run the country people like.

what is happening and then it all goes. down and then he comes in with rhetoric. people love it when he actually runs the. country people like this is terrible. >> but the thing people don't realize is. many politicians. >> he's authentic he's not honest there's a. difference. >> right. >> but he's authentic he'll come out and. he'll say to you I'm supposed to read. from the teleprompter there it is telep. I I should read it I should read it. should you want me to read I don't want. to read it. I got to read it. They want. me to read it. I could read it. I could. read, but I don't want to. >> Acid acid acid aceta.

men. [laughter]. >> Yeah. But and boy, that's a tough word. That's a tough word. Can you say I get a. lot of people can't say it. That thing. >> authenticity. politicians, let's just call it. mainstream or legacy in any field. >> has taken for granted. how much authenticity has been stripped. from our society. >> Amen. Oh my god. >> And and and you know this is this is.

what happens. We we live in cycles in. life, right? Things will often start off as authentic. once they achieve critical acclaim or. success. They then start to become. parodies of themselves because they're. trying to maintain what they now have. >> Yeah. >> Right. So you you you have like a dating. show or you have like Survivor, let's. say. I would argue like the first season. of Survivor was the only like real. Survivor. >> Mhm. >> Cuz people didn't know what Survivor was. supposed to be.

>> It was like what is this thing? And then. it was Richard, right? Remember the. first like bad villainy guy who like he. was like I'm I'm just going to Yeah, I'm. going to break this game. Everyone else. was trying to do the real thing and. Richard was like, "No, I'm going to I'm. going to screw this over.". >> But people watched that and then went, "Oh, that's what we need to do." And. Survivor itself went, "This is what. needs to be done." So now when you watch. Survivor, >> people come in as a villain, but you're. like, "No, that's you're not that's not. authentic anymore.". >> And so then what happens,

>> you know, it's still on the air because. >> Oh, yeah. It's still going Yeah. It's. still going strong, >> but it starts to become it doesn't have. the the the cultural cache that it once. had. The same thing goes for dating. shows. The first version of it will be. authentic. People like, "What is that?". Same thing for reality shows. The first. version is just a camera crew comes in. your house. They start filming. You get. comfortable and you start having your. real disputes. You have your, you know, like you even see like. >> start living your life. >> The Hulk Hogan documentary. >> You see him saying, "We didn't realize. >> how invasive this would be, but they.

were having real fights in front of the. camera.". >> But now when people do reality show, it's scripted. They even like Yeah. They. stage the fights. >> Yeah. >> That strips away. What starts happening? The next generation of authentic comes. So then you end up with like dating. shows like Pop the Balloon. >> You know that Pop the Balloon show. >> My favorite. >> Yeah. But why? Because it was so much. more authentic. These people didn't look. like they had done any media training. >> They didn't give us any spiel. Someone. just walked in and was just like, "Hey,

my name's Brad.". [laughter]. >> That's like bad for TV if you think. about it. You'll be like, "No, no, Don't. all pop at the beginning. If that if. that show had a showrunner, >> it would say. >> they would be like, "Okay, >> and your story is this.". >> Yes. And then you're going to pop a. balloon when this happens and you're. going to pop a balloon when this No. Sometimes a person will walk in, not. even speak. like none of these. [laughter]. >> Yeah. That's And why do people love it? It's.

authentic. You know what I mean? And I. think we take for granted how. authenticity authenticity has been. robbed of like we're yearning for it in. society. >> Everything is produced over overly. produced. And you're right. And then the. show or whatever it is becomes a parody. of itself. >> There you go. >> Right. It becomes the SNL skit of. itself. >> Yeah. Why do people love hot wings on. the internet? It's not because. celebrities are eating spicy hot wings. It's because them eating the hot wing is. the one thing they can't fake now. >> Yeah. It's hard to learn. So, if they go.

to a late night show and it's like, "Tell me about the time you went on. vacation." Oh, I can't believe you asked. me that story that I told you about. before we came out in front of the. cameras. So, what happened was give the. person a spicy hot wing that they cannot. tolerate. >> As we say back home, the cool is gone. [laughter]. >> You know what I mean? We saw Idris Ela. choke. This is this is like the greatest. action star of our lifetime. And he's. [laughter]. >> But you know what happened? We loved him. more after that. >> Yeah. We can go like, "Ah, I just can't. be an action star." We're like, "Yo, we.

we roll with you even harder.". >> Let me tell you, people love a hot mess. >> And and people would ask me, you know, and I don't know how you feel about. Wendy Williams. >> Oh, yeah. >> Wendy Williams is the biggest winner. People loved her. She is missed on How. you doing? How you doing? >> People, she is missed on daytime. television. Her show would, I believe, still be a success and especially if. like advertisers were afraid of her. um. you know the O and O you know the. stations around the country were afraid. of her because they didn't know what she.

was going to say and you know people oh. my god like with your accent well he's. just she was so authentic and that was. that was her superpower. >> yes. >> and I missed that on television there's. there's hardly any if any television. show or talk show that's like that now. >> but can I tell you here's the irony and. this is what most people don't realize. especially when it comes to media the. great irony is the cycle something. becomes popular advertisers wish to. partake in. The advertisers want to partake in it. because it's popular. >> When they partake in it, they now wish.

to put guard rails on it. >> because they are worried about how they. will be perceived, not realizing that no. one really cares. >> Nobody cares. >> No one cares about a brand as much as a. brand cares about a brand. They think. the streets are like, "Oh, I saw your ad. on that." No, no one really cares. They. start putting guardrails on the thing. They put so many guard rails that the. thing loses all of its authenticity and. popularity. It starts to dwindle. and then they pull out. They go like,

"Sorry, Don. It's not performing. anymore.". >> Not performing. Yes. >> And you're like, "You made me stop being. me and now the thing failed and now. you're pulling out." And they're like, "Yeah, sorry. We're going for this new, you know, people are loving it. Watch. what's going to happen to it. Just give. it time.". >> And they're so, you're right, they're so. dumb. Like there was an advertiser who. my u sales guy called and said you know. this advertiser is really nervous about. your arrest and whatever. I said how. many more people are watching us because. of that arrest. >> Like nobody cares but you. No one cares.

And in this environment now it used to. be 15 minutes of fame. It's 15 seconds. The news cycle it's like a story goes in. and then you're like this is the biggest. thing. And then Donald Trump tweets. something. You're like oh forget about. that. This is the biggest thing. Now. >> by the way now that you bring that up. Did you guys at CNN ever know that he. was like playing you guys like puppets? Did you ever figure it out at some. point? >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No, cuz there was a there was a thing. So, >> I I think they I think honestly they. maybe knew somewhere in the beginning,

but it was good for business. >> Do you remember Les Moonveves? He goes, you know, Trump is bad for the country, but he's good for business. >> He did say that. And. >> Jeff Zucker said, "Donald Trump is many. things, but one thing I'll tell you is. he's a one-man ratings wrecking ball. machine.". >> And. >> same with uh I think it was Roger Als. who called Trump was like, "Yo, man, why. aren't you coming on the When he when. Fox was fighting with Trump, Roger Als. was phoning Trump and he's like, "Yo, I. know we're beefing, but come on the. show, man.". >> Let me tell you something. Donald Trump.

is a media genius. >> Genius. >> Yeah. She I I got a story about that. But I tell you, um Jeff [snorts] got. hipped to it really early and then but. he never told us what to say. We did not. The only thing that he would tell us is. when we were doing interviews, when he. allowed us to do interviews, is um just. >> let him talk and fact check him. You can. ask him anything. It's all in the way. you ask the question. >> So you can say, >> "Trevor, what is wrong with your hair?". >> Uhhuh. >> Or you can go, "Trevor, you seem to have.

a really nice head of hair. What's going. on? is did you change something? >> Very similar question, right? Or you. compliment him before. You're a. marketing genius. Now, this one thing I. don't understand because it didn't quite. go over well with your supporters. What. happened? Well, you know, so. >> Oh, and then you're in. >> And then you're in. >> What's the story? >> Uh, morning glory. >> The story. Wait, what did you say again? What were you asking? >> We were talking about me marketing. genius. >> Oh, media genius. how I knew Donald.

Trump was going to win in 2016. >> Yeah, >> I this was back in the day when I got. newspapers delivered to my door. Now. everything's online. I I prefer holding. newspaper, but then it becomes too much. So I would get the Washington Post, the. New York Times, um sometimes they would. send me just for fun the the company, the like the New York Post, all of it. So I open these newspapers and Donald. Trump is on the front page and then I. open the real estate section. Donald. Trump is in the real estate section. Then I open the editorial section. There's Donald Trump and then whatever.

And I just I was like, "Oh." And I was. like, "Well, where is Hillary Clinton?". >> Right? And I said, "This man is going to. win." And then Tim said, "Why?" I said, "Because he's everywhere. and he's sitting, who knows, in his bed, on a toilet or whatever, calling in. morning shows, >> right? He didn't come in. He just calls. in.". >> Do you know why he did it like that? >> Because he got he [snorts] didn't have. to go in, but he could talk to. everybody. >> No, it's genius. The reason Donald Trump. did it like that is because he liked how.

it made him seem like the Wizard of Oz. >> Oh yeah. Oh. >> So when Donald Trump would phone into a. news show but wouldn't be there, >> all the people on the show would just. have to like sit there. >> and it has the same effect of speaking. to this like omnipotent power. >> So they all sit on the couch. You see. them on Fox all the time. They sit on. the couch and they go, "So Mr. President, yeah. So Mr. President, tell. us." And then you just you just see the. picture his picture that like smoldering. picture of his. >> and then he just talks and everyone just.

has to stare at the picture. And in. those moments you don't realize. >> subconsciously. >> you are saying that this person is so. important they do not have to be here. but we have to listen to everything they. say. >> Yeah. >> And he knew he knew the power of that's. something I never even thought about. >> He knew the I knew it on a media level. He's genius. >> But he knew the power of it. He also. knew that he could be everywhere, everything everywhere all at once, right? He could be everywhere on and on.

every show. And look, I I think that. there in modern history in recent times, there's never been anyone more qualified. to be president than Hillary Clinton. Okay. However, I don't believe that. whatever media strategy she has or. strategists that I think that they. served her wrong because she would pick. and choose and I'm going to do this and. and I'm like, you should be all over the. place. What are you guys doing? Yeah. But I So here's the thing to what Eugene. said and what we were saying. When you stop trying to do the thing,

that's when you will do the thing. >> Have you noticed how people in divorce. will finally become themselves? >> It's only when people are breaking up. with each other that they'll finally. tell the other person the truth of who. they are. >> All of a sudden, you'll say, >> "I never I never liked sleeping in the. same bed. I I just want to sleep in my. own room and and I I I don't want to go. on vacations to this place. And then the. person goes, "Wait, when were you going. to tell me this?". >> Yeah. [snorts]. >> When you stop trying to do the thing, ironically, that's often when you'll do.

the thing. >> Is that what happened with Hillary. Clinton? >> The same thing goes. >> If you want to see arguably the best. just like politician qualified human all. go and watch Hillary Clinton's. interviews after she had lost the. election and it was like done. >> Yes. I think there's one she did on. Howard Stern maybe or what. you go where was this person? >> Yeah, I agree. She is. >> funny, smart, knowledgeable, throws the. thing. She is fire, but you never saw.

that person on the campaign trail. because but this is this is like the. gift and the curse I always think in. life. I argue. Donald Trump won the election because he. just like the 2016 election, he won it. because he's just he was just this crazy. brash take it to the limit person all. the time. >> Yeah. No, >> but that's also the reason he lost the. next election is because he had there's. two different skills in life, right? This the the ability to be a.

revolutionary does not mean that you. will have the ability to govern. Mhm. >> Mhm. >> The ability to run for office does not. mean you'll have the ability to run in. office. >> You know, to run an office. >> Yeah. To run an office. Thank you. >> And so that's what people don't get is. like to your point of Hillary being. overqualified, >> her measured nature, her thinking, all. of those things are terrible for. running. >> But part of that comes from the rules. are different for women. So she had to. right. So part of it comes from that.

But if you see her in person, I don't. know if she's been on your show. >> Yeah, when she came to my show. Yeah. >> And she's like, "Hey, Don, how are you?". >> Yeah. Yeah. Another person. We've never. seen that before. >> I just want to We saw her leaving um uh. the Kennedy Center one. Um there was a. function at the Kennedy Center and Tim. and I were like, "Uh, let's get out of. here." And then she was coming around. the other side and she's like, "Let's. get out of she bumped into us." She. goes, "I just want to go home and take. my shoes off and and eat my whatever. Uber eats in bed." And we're like, "Where was that?" because I you know.

people would have voted for that a. million times but I just I think she. probably did you know felt that she. couldn't do that. >> Yeah that's but that's what that's why. I'm saying in I I think this goes beyond. politics. I think in life one of the. greatest challenges you'll face as a. human being is knowing when your gift. becomes your curse and knowing when your. curse becomes your gift. >> Yeah. >> I think of it through the lens of trauma. all the time. >> Right. Many of us in these worlds or. anywhere.

can go back to a time in our lives when. things were terrible. We might have had. a tough time with our parents. We might. have had a tough time in our families, in our communities. We we can go back. and think, man, I remember hating my. life or I remember wanting to escape or. but then there's a moment where that. curse becomes your gift. Makes you see. the world differently. It makes you. process information in a way that nobody. else can. makes you think faster than. other people. You you deal with with. with situations. You know what I mean? Like when I think of my life, I'm one of.

the calmst people in chaos. It's because. my life was chaos. >> Same here. I get so calm in chaos and. I'm just quiet. And then Tim is a. worrier. He's like, "Oh my gosh, whatever." The engagement on the shows. I'm like, "Tim, it's all it's fine." And. and like when I got arrested, I was. like, "Okay." And then I kept thinking, I'm a journalist, so I'm going to like. chronicle this and remember this and in. case I want to have to talk about it in. court or maybe I want to write a book. about it. And so I was just very calm.

Very calm, very calm. >> Now I would go like, what was your life. like when you were growing up? >> My my life wasn't chaotic. I mean, I'm a. you know, Gen X and so we did not have. very much parental supervision. >> So good old days. I pretty much raised. myself kind of, you know, my grandmother. was there and they call it nanny now, but my grandmother was there and she was. like she was our babysitter. But then. pretty much like when I was I think I. was in junior high school, whatever, and. >> they didn't we didn't need my. grandmother. So my parents would go.

away, me and my pre-teen sisters would. be at home by ourselves. And so the I. would come home from uh school, my. parents, both my parents worked. And so. they call them latch key kids. >> But um the I I you know, the TV raised. me. the Brady Bunch, you know, when. >> limited channels and reruns. quality getting closer to the TV set. >> Yeah. On the floor, alternating butt. cheeks. >> Yeah. And then and and then at night, I. watched a lot of television. I think. Norman Lear kind of raised me. So, my.

life wasn't very chaotic, but it wasn't. as structured as uh I probably needed. at, you know, when I was growing up. >> But you see that. So that's what I'm. saying is without even knowing the. details of it, I can go living in that. type of life, most people would argue, as you said, is a little more chaotic, but that means you're going to be calm. when there's chaos. But I also I had to. take care of myself. I had to rely on. me. >> That's what I mean. And so then as I got. older, I'm like, I got to take care of. myself. I got to rely on me. This too.

shall pass. >> There you go. >> And and or maybe something good is going. to happen. Not maybe something good is. going to happen out of every situation. There's something good that happens. But. I think it's because I always had to. rely on myself even. >> I believe in the momentum of rock. bottom. I so believe in it cuz once. things have gotten worse I'm like. there's only one way now in any. situation when the traffic gets really. really bad. I'm like it can't be like. this forever. I've already experienced. the worst of a thing. So I'm always. looking out for those moments. Where. else I feel like when I was younger I.

used to avoid those moments of chaos of. feeling helpless of feeling stranded. Now, when that happens, I'm like, you. have no idea how much of a jet. propulsion that situation is. And I. think we from a generational point of. view, we miss the chaos that we knew. existed in how people were raising. themselves, in how neighbors were. involved and grandparents were involved, and we stopped being those people to. kids that we have and neighbors that we. have because we we kind of miss the. drunk uncle.

>> Yeah, we do. >> The drunk uncle was that guy. >> Yeah. You don't miss him? >> You also have I really miss a drunk. uncle. >> The drunk uncle was the guy. Oh, >> I had a drunk uncle, by the way, who. used to drive. I would be in the back. seat. He would drive drunk. And my mom. said, "You cannot go and get in the car. with him because I said, you know, I. won't say his name, but uncle, whatever." And I said, "We went to such. and such place and I was in the back. seat. We were driving home and I was. like this all over the back seat." She. goes, "Do not get in the car with him. anymore." [laughter].

>> That was my drunk uncle and I loved him. My drunk uncle used to take me to a dice. game and then when things got hectic, he'll be like, "Hold the money.". >> Then I'll be there at the back going, "Yeah, if something happens, I'm gone.". Yeah. [laughter] But if nothing ever. happened, you know, and one day we. witnessed the stabbing, but. >> I still made it home. >> But we stopped being those people. There. was always the drunk uncle, the. successful aunt, the one who does this, the one who does that, the neighbor who. got out and still comes back for family. um occasions. But we miss television the.

way we grew up making television. That's. why when someone breaks away from. traditional media and goes into this new. media, I'm the happiest person in the. world seeing them do things the way they. should be done because ultimately we. recreating our our childhood. We. recreating those TV moments and I think. that's why people are paying attention. and I feel sorry for this younger. generation because they're just copying. other copies. >> We are actually doing radio the way we. used to love listening to radio but it's. called a podcast now. Yeah,

>> we hanging out the way we used to love. because a stranger coming in while we. having a conversation has never been a. big deal. >> So, what do you do? >> It will always be like, "So, he's. crazy." That idea of people just coming. into people's houses, you be like, "Actually, it's not a bad idea." That's. exactly. >> what we need. >> You look, you're right about that. And. speaking of, we were talking about. corporate media. Um, sometimes my. friends who are in corporate meeting, they're starting podcasts now and. they'll invite me on their shows and. they're like, "Okay, what are we doing.

in segment two?" And here's the script. And I'm like, "What are we doing? >> Were you tapping OUR PHONES? WHY YOU. TAPPING OUR PHONES?". >> THIS GUY WAS TAPPING our phones. >> It's TV. It's a TV podcast. >> This guy was tapping our What did I say? This guy was tapping our phones. >> Exactly what he said. >> And the thing is, it's like, "No, this. guy was tapping our phones.". >> And you go, "Hey, what's up? >> This guy was tapping our phones, Eugene." But they haven't figured it out. because and and they're in full makeup. and. >> this guy was our full garb and I'm like. why are you doing that? You want people. to see you the other way. Like I did a I.

sometimes I'll do like uh updates on my. phone in my pajamas. I'm like. >> do you want to do you want to tell. Donate what is what is the criteria for. a guest on this on this podcast? >> Oh 100% are you hangable? Can we hang. out with you? >> Do you think I'm hangable? >> Don. >> Oh my god. >> Don, [laughter] come on. You like me? >> This guy. This guy. You playing games? >> That [laughter] is a game. Number one. >> This is the same guy. You know when you. you know a person who's hangable is.

somebody who has range. This is somebody. who I've seen reports on the most. serious incident happening in America. And then somebody who got drunk at New. Year's Eve. >> I knew you were going to say that. [laughter]. >> on the ball was dropping be like let me. tell you. [laughter]. And you see like in that moment. genuinely I remember liking you more. I. went this guy I wrote Yeah. Because No, because it was it was I was like, "Oh, he's a human being.". >> Yeah. And you guess what? Now.

everybody's getting drunk on New Year's. Eve. Before they're like, "You can't. what are you doing?" I had people would. call me and say, "You have to u maintain. your stature as a journalist and. especially a black man in this society.". I'm like, "It's [ __ ] New Year's Eve. Nobody's talking policy. Everybody is. sitting at home getting lit and so why. can't I?" And some of it is like you're. you get into it. I'm not stumbling drunk. like people. >> You know, it's it's like a little bit. like Dean Martin in the. Brat. Yeah. You just you enjoy it. >> So, but. >> Yeah. But you see what I mean now.

because it was a success because of how. viral it went because of everyone goes, "Would you like it trying to make a. show? Would you like? But now people are. going to try to get drunk on New Year's. Eve when covering it for the news. because they wish to recreate the same. thing that happened. >> It's it's. >> man your life is weird how you like your. gift will just be your curse. It'll just. it'll just keep on coming back around. >> If it's not, as you said, authentic. authenticity. If it's not authentic to. you, people will sniff it out. immediately.

>> Yeah. >> And they'll say, "No, I I don't dig. this.". >> We'll be right back after this. [music]. >> [music]. >> I have a question for you cuz I was. thinking about this. I thought of it. earlier and then it came back to me now. Do you think gay guys have more fun in. relationships than straight guys? >> Absolutely. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm asking the other gay man. at the table now. [laughter] I'm the.

other gay man at the table. Eugene, please. >> Please. [laughter]. And Eugene, >> why doesn't it work so bad? >> YES, EUGENE. >> DOES IT? WE TWEET EACH OTHER ALL THE. [laughter] TIME. >> BEING GAY IS NOT AN INSULT, EUGENE. It's. I think it's a compliment. >> That means you're you know you're hip. >> It means you smell good. >> Smell good. You dress good. >> It means you know what's happening. >> You're an overachiever. >> Got him. [laughter]. >> When we started doing this podcast, >> it means you wear a jean jacket with a. black [laughter] t-shirt.

>> and clear glasses. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS. >> [laughter]. >> NO, BUT REALLY, DO YOU THINK. >> I'M NOT GAY, but my podcast? >> You need to leave. [laughter]. >> What were you saying? Do I think they. have better? Yes, I do. Why do you think. that is? >> Uh because I think that you I think we. have better things to worry about than. some performative thing um about what. marriage or relationship should be like. I actually look I'm in sort of a very.

heteronormative relationship now. We are. monogamous the blah blah blah blah but. if we weren't I you know. >> nobody so I I don't judge couples who. are have open relationships but. >> but yeah I mean. >> it's two men are horny and fun and they. like to have fun and also it's not sex. is not an emotional thing for men. Mhm. >> It's like, ah, yeah, that's right. It's. okay. But a woman, it's like, oh my. gosh. You know what I mean? Generally, >> yes. Yes. >> There are very few women who are like. Samantha on Sex in the City.

>> Well, well, it's actually funny. I think. Esther Prell said it said it beautifully. once. She said, "We have a misconception. that sex is not emotional for men. It's. just the emotions happen at a different. time for [laughter] men than for women.". That's true. >> So, the sex is emotional for everybody, but it's more when the emotions present. themselves that that that we're not so. aware of. Were you gay your whole life? >> Yeah. >> So, >> at a very early age, I knew that I was, but I didn't know quite what it meant. sexually, but I also knew that it was.

something I had to hide. >> because. >> in the South as well. >> Oh my gosh. >> Very religious family. >> My gosh. Yeah. I mean, it's even worse. in the South. Look at the what happens. in the South now. Bible belt and all. that. Louisiana, deep south. You don't. get much more southern than that. >> Um, yeah. So, I always knew I always. knew it was something that I had to. hide. And then the moment I stopped. hiding it, that's when I became me, more. authentic. >> When did you come out? >> I sort of came out to my friends and and. co-workers. So, I was out with friends.

Like my mom used to say like, "How do. you guys how did the gays find each. other?" Because she had never. experienced so many like gay men openly. like, you know, >> in community. And so when she started to. come into my circle and she real she's. like, "These are really great people.". She goes, "I think I got to tell you, Don, I think that gay people are the. smartest people in the world." And I. just like, "Okay.". >> And she said, "Your homes are beautiful. The way you dress, everybody's smart, everybody has something interesting to. say." She said, "That doesn't happen. with us." Cuz I look at my friends and I.

go, "What the hell? Are you stupid? Would you say that?" So anyways, [clears throat]. um I you know, it was something that I had to hide. until until I didn't have to hide it. Were you who were you most afraid of. when when you had to come out? >> Well, I came out as I was saying, I came. out uh two friends. I was out with. friends and then I left Louisiana. because I knew that, you know, I had to. >> leave in order to become me. And also, my journalism teacher at LSU told me I. would never make it as a journalist. I'm. like, okay, whatever. He was right.

[laughter]. >> So, so I I moved to New York City and I. started, you know, dating people and. coming out and the people at work like. knew that I was gay. And then I started, you know, gaining success and I moved um. around the country doing local news in. the in those markets. I was out to my. friends, but I never talked about it. openly, professionally. >> And then someone said, "Hey, I you're. like you're what you're doing is great. I think you have a book in you. You. should write a book." And I started. writing a book about my journeys in.

journalism and life and whatever. And I. got to the part where I left Louisiana. and I'm like, "Oh, am I going to be the person who lies. about it silent?" Because there is. deception in silence. There's a certain. deception in silence. >> And I said, "If I'm going to be. authentic and I have to have the same. rules for myself that I have for the. guests that come on, like they must be. candid." And I said, I just wrote about. it. It was like two or three pages in. the book. It's like I had to move for. this reason and I needed to become. myself and I was a gay person and at.

that point I knew that I could not do. that in Louisiana. and so I moved to New York City and I. just wrote that and then it became a. huge thing back then this was 2011. things are different now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That was a big deal. >> I can only imagine. >> and to have a ma news anchor on a major. network like CNN come out. No one had. done that. I think Rachel was out but uh. Rachel Madam but she wasn't Rachel Mad. Zero. I was like the first to come out. among the first if not the first.

>> Did you lose anyone? >> Yeah, I lost that person that the person. that I was before who was afraid of. coming out and afraid of losing their. livelihood. >> Damn, that's beautiful. >> So I lost that person. But everybody. else No, if if I lost you because of. that, [ __ ] it. I don't I didn't give a. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. But that was a real thing because. people would say, you know, there were. rumors um but I never really talked. about it. And then now I don't really. care. And then I it's hard for me to.

um in this day and age, I get it. But. people who are in a safe place and who. are not out, I'm like, "Okay, don't do that." But that's not my. business. It happens. What do you think. people. don't realize they're missing out on by. not coming out? And not like, let's say, publicly writing a book, but just what. do you what do you think they're missing. out on? >> I wish that we did not have to, you. know, come out because. >> human sexuality is so, you know, it is a. spectrum and.

>> actually that's that's a great question. for you is so is it [laughter] gay if. somebody tries once? >> No. >> Okay. When does it become gay? I'm. asking for a friend. [laughter]. Well, why don't you ask him because you. remember [laughter]. you remember the other night when we. hung out? I didn't want to. Okay. Should. I tell him? [laughter]. >> You don't want me to tell him? >> You know what? It's fine. [laughter]. >> No, I don't I don't think that it's I.

don't think that it's gay if you try. there. Look, I have been gay for a long. time. And there are people I know that I. have hooked up with who are now married. with children, married to women, >> and I don't think that they're gay. I. just think that they're horny or that. they are human. >> and they did something. [clears throat]. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're. gay, >> right? >> Um, look at what happens when people are. in close quarters when they go to prison. or whatever. They call it gay for the. state. >> Yeah. >> Because we have we have urges and. especially when you're younger, your. hormones are going crazy. So, no, I. don't believe that. Nor do I believe.

that it should be judged. I think if we. were we weren't so puritanical in this. society and it wasn't so based on. religion, which it shouldn't be, then we. might have healthier people and we. wouldn't judge sexuality and a safer. society. >> Yeah. The safer society is the big the. biggest one. >> Trevor, look at look at all you have to. do is like scroll through your news feed. and you look at all of the conservative. people, the Christian people who get in. trouble for doing weird things with kids.

or they're saying, "Oh, gays are the. worst." and they end up being gay and. they're on Grinder now with the. >> with the boobs. >> the boob pictures. >> I liked him more after that. I liked. >> I did actually. >> I liked him. Uh Brian Gnome Christine. Gnome's husband. >> Christy Nome's husband and then. >> he was found on websites or dating. sites. >> He liked big He's like that was a fetish. for him. >> Yeah. would he would basically dress up. sort of as a woman but then put like. gigantic fake giant massive boobs and. then go talk to women also I guess with. giant boobs and it was a whole thing and.

but. >> he wasn't I don't think he's gay no. that's his thing. >> that's his pinchant and that's fine. >> that's his I'm not judging. >> and that's that's his thing and that's. fine and it it really is interesting how. >> not just interesting it's also sad how. many of these people. are in power espousing one idea. >> Mhm. >> And then they get exposed. for literally living the life that they. have condemned in the worst way.

possible. But then they don't there isn't like a. like a redemption is maybe the wrong. word. But I I wish that would make them. go like hey look so I I I yeah I. actually am a conservative and I am also. this and I am so we can be do you get. what I'm saying? >> They can't do that. Yeah. But I guess. sometimes I think when you are in a. position of power, authority, it's easier to live a lie because most. of the things that you see when you're. up there are a lie.

>> Yeah. >> Work hard, you'll [singing] get. somewhere. >> You know, if you save your money, your. money will earn interest. You know, you. have to study and then you'll get a. position. Then the person goes, nothing. here is true. >> Nothing here is true. So one lie from me. is not going to make a a big difference. But from what I'm hearing from Don is we. must treat people who experiment the. same way we treat people who put avocado. on pizza. [laughter]. >> It might not belong there. >> Dude, tell me this isn't true. I'm going. to get UP NOW. [laughter].

>> OH, YOU DON'T LIKE IT WHEN YOU. >> ARE YOU an avocado toast person? >> No, I don't put avocado on pizza. I. don't know where that came from. >> You don't avocado on pizza, Trevor. >> I don't put a Which pizza have I ever. added avocado to? I'm No, >> daddy and daddy are fighting. I'm. uncomfortable. Whoa, whoa, >> whoa, whoa. Eugene, Eugene, >> I was. >> Eugene. >> Giovanni. >> Eugene, put. >> large pepperoni. >> Put avocado on pizza. Ah, my friend. >> My friend, you can accuse me of many.

things. >> Gay. >> I will be gay on Epstein Island before I. have put avocado on pizza, son. >> And to be clear, there's nothing wrong. with being gay. Something wrong with. being on Epstein's island. Unless you. were like working as like a cleaner or. something and you didn't know what was. happening because no one ever found that. guy. >> Actually, who was taking all those. pictures now that you think about it? >> Pictures. >> Who was developing the pictures and not. saying anything? >> So many questions. >> Was it like [laughter] King. >> Who King was developing those pictures. and not saying anything? >> Oh my gosh. You guys joke about this a.

lot. Does it bother you that people. think that you're gay? >> Me? >> Yeah. >> Not even not even in the slightest. >> That's the last person that it bothers. Not even in the. >> cuz I I saw an internet rumor that. Trevor [laughter] Trevor is gay. >> Not even in the slightest. >> We say we say it to each other all the. time. YOU'RE THE ONLY person that has. ever said [laughter] it. Ryan and Trevor. and I say it to each other all the time. Be gay. That's gay. >> It's there's nothing. It's So here, okay, here's here's what it is for me. >> I'm I I am very lucky. I'll say this.

I'm very lucky in that my mother, who. was my primary caregiver growing up, had this and still has a very um. it's almost. not progressive in the way she sees the. world. So So my mom, for instance, never. really got into labels. >> You get what I'm saying? >> My mom was very um as she would say it, tomboyish when she was growing up. So my.

mom did, you know, she played sports and. she was rough and she was this and she. was. and so when my mom would meet like a gay. or lesbian person, she almost treats it. like you're just experiencing something. in life. >> and she doesn't know how long that. experience will be. It could be one. year, it could be the whole your whole. life. >> She does not think of it as like your. your label and your conditioning or your. anything. So she doesn't think of it as. good or bad. >> She just goes [clears throat] like, "Ah, that's uh okay." Like if she met you as. Don, it' be like, "Oh, Don." And then. let's say it came out that you were gay.

Like in a conversation, she'd be like, "Oh, wow." And and and and how long are. you are you? Oh, wow. And you so you're. going to do it forever? Wow. [laughter]. But she wouldn't treat it like it's a. bad thing. She just be like, "Oh, damn. You're doing you're doing this. This is. this is how you live your life." The. same way she'll talk to somebody, by the. way, >> who's married, by the way. >> Does that make sense? So, if she talks. to a married person, she'll also go, "So, you Oh, wow. And how long have you. been married?" "Wow." "And you're going. to be married your whole life?" "Wow.". She she just sees your decisions in life. or the your proclivities or the way you.

are as you. >> But I guess also Tina, we were lucky. because growing up we were never exposed. to. >> shows content. Call him. >> What did you just say? What did you call. him? >> Tina. Tina. No, Tina means us. >> Oh, okay. >> Tina is Yeah. Zulu word for us. [laughter]. >> You thought you called me Tina. That. would BE. >> NOW YOU KNEW WAS LIKE WHOA. >> IS THAT YOUR drag name? >> You call me Tina. >> Don caught that quick. Tina, what's. going on here? >> TINA NOAH [laughter]. >> tonight performing at the Roxy Tina.

Noah. [laughter]. >> I am I don't need joy. >> But by the way, when I told you that. there's always a [laughter] way to ask. the question. >> Yes. >> I asked you if you were gay and in that. question. >> Oh, that's fascinating. >> He's good this one. >> That is fascinating. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you're saying [laughter]. >> I've never thought about it. Well, >> so I was saying that we growing up, we. missed that bus of stigmatizing people.

who are gay. >> So we never we we never had those shows. We never had those movies where people. who are gay are being victimized. >> Yeah. Maybe for like and I mean like us. in a circle. Yeah. Just us. We're not. saying for everyone us. >> You know, we we use the word gay as a. way of saying you don't want to do that. >> Yeah. It's not let's go ride a bicycle. in the cold. >> So it do you understand what I mean? It. was never derogatory for us because we.

never and and and when you see. >> the history maybe like in New York of. how the gay community was being targeted. and how they had to form little. communities of dancing and doing makeup. and doing shows and just being free with. each other. You're like, "Oh, okay." If. you grew up seeing that, you would. understand that there was a group of. people who believed in a certain thing. that were victimized by the rest of. everyone. >> Right. >> Yes. But I I I understand that. >> 100%. >> But you understand when I said being gay.

is not an insult. >> Yeah. We're still using it as an insult. >> But we'll use it for everything. >> Yeah. >> No. No. What I'm saying is we even use. other things as an insult. >> Yeah. Yeah. Don't don't even bet on us. Tina, >> we will we No, no. We We'll use. >> everywhere. >> But we'll use anything as an insult. We. can we can use like like you're being. kosa now. >> Mhm. >> Does that make sense? >> You're being what? >> Kosa. So I'm I'm kosa my family my. culture. So zuluana. but you can say that sometimes people. say it like I'm a shangan. >> Yes. >> You'll be. >> if you're being colorful you're being.

shan now. >> If you're being stubborn you're being. zulu now. So it's not the the insult. you're being. >> but you know what's interesting is the. more the more you travel the more you. realize. >> how depending on how you view it I think. it's beautifully complicated these. things can be a simple example. when I came to America it was. interesting to see how sensitive people. got if you refer to their weight like if. you said you're fat or you've gained. weight or you it was like a.

>> it's the one of the biggest taboos. I'll tell you, growing up in South. Africa, in most parts of Africa that. I've been to, my friends from the Middle. East will tell me this as well, fat was. like a compliment. And if your. grandparents said it to you, they never. said it in like a a negative way. They. were like, "Oh, look at you getting fat. >> You're doing well.". >> Yeah. Yeah. And it was it was genuinely. you're doing well. >> More kids when I was growing up were. roasted for being skinny. Like that was. Oh my god. >> The nickname. >> Stixmanza. Skinny Mindi. Do you do you have do you.

ever use the N word? Do you ever use the. N word in Africa? >> Yeah. But but again, no, but this is a. but this is a perfect example. [laughter]. >> We used it and still use it because it. was like the most aspirational thing. that existed in our world. It's funny. We were chilling chilling with Vic. Mensah on the show. >> and Vic was saying. >> whenever Africans use the nword, he's a. little bit like [laughter]. >> like you guys are not saying it right. He's like, "The way you say it, he's. like, >> I don't know. It doesn't He's like, I'm.

with you, but you're saying it wrong. You [laughter] There's too many E's in. the word. There's too many." But I I. genuinely find it beautiful because I if. you are Here's here's how I'll put it. I think social media. has robbed us. of the nuance of the of the concentric. circles that our lives are lived within. >> Mhm. >> There are things you will say with your. husband. >> that you would never say to somebody.

who's not your husband. >> And then we expand it. There's things. you'd say to your family that you would. never say outside of your family. You. expand it. There's things you'd say with. your friends that you'd never say D. You. know what I mean? Yeah, >> we've now made it seem like the words. and phrases that we may use in our tin. circles are the things that we Eugene. and I would never say certain things to. other people regardless of what the word. is. >> right. >> because we know this is no you're not. you don't roll with us you know what I. mean we wouldn't say anything shan we.

even sayonga because we know it's a. derogatory term sometimes to say shan we. there's just like. >> but do do you ever feel like that it's. like we've robbed ourselves as people of. the ability to know that something is. wrong, but within the context of. friendships and relationships has no. malice attached to it. >> I'm glad you said that because I've been. dying to when I when I knew that when. you asked me to be on the show and then. I saw this, I was like, "Oh, I got to. ask Trevor about this." So, you said. that you know you you don't say things.

that you know are wrong or inappropriate. for that particular circle or what have. you. >> I try my best not to. >> Yeah. So, the Kevin Hart roast. >> Yes. >> How'd you feel about that? [sighs] Ah. man, I I had too many feelings about the. Kevin hot roast. Um I think the first. feeling I had was. maybe maybe I was naive or maybe roast. have changed, but like I I didn't like. that the roast was as written as it was. for everyone. >> That's the first thing I'll say, right? Because [clears throat] in my opinion, a. roast is supposed to be an opportunity.

for each person to write the funniest. expression of how they feel about. another person. >> and do their authentic brand of comedy. >> But even but even if it's not true, you're going, "What are all the things I. can roast Eugene about? What are all the. things I can roast Don about?". >> And they're not true, but these are. things that come from my lens. >> I I think I can make these things funny. That's and and it's it's it comes from a. place of love. That's what I think a. good roast is supposed to be. It's. supposed to be people who know you,

people who like you, and then you can. and there'll be like edges on the day. because you might not know someone so. you can shots can get fired in any. direction. >> So that's that's like on a like on a. comedy writing side. I was like, huh, >> it [clears throat] was weird when people. like let's scroll past that on the. prompter and oh the writers gave me that. and I was like wait what are we do then? Why don't the writers just come and do. this? That's the first thought I had. >> The second feeling I had was it was just. a weird one. I felt like it was weird that all the. black comedians who came on stage told.

jokes about the people who were there, >> but then a lot of the white comedians. who came on told jokes about black. people. >> Yes. [clears throat]. >> I was like, "Wait, wait, wait. I thought. it was the roast of Kevin Hart. >> Say what you want about Cheryl. Underwood. Say what you want about. Regina. Say what you want about Naim or. whoever's up there." But it was weird. that like just it this was just like a. black joke. >> that had nothing to do with a person. and then you you could just you're like.

wait George Floyd what. >> the roast of black people. >> Yeah. But you're like but what does. George Floyd have to I don't even. understand the the connecting thread. between George Floyd and Kevin Hart. You. haven't shown me. >> the connecting thread at all. I don't I. don't know. What did What did you feel? >> Uh look I'm all for free speech and and. comedy. I think that comedians should be. given a wide birth, but the really good. ones understand how to do it and there. must be a there there. I thought with. some of those jokes, there's no there. there. I look, Kevin Hart, I'm a huge.

fan of Kevin Hart. I've really admired. what he's done business-wise, you know? So, that's a whole another thing. But, um, I thought that I was uncomfortable. with some of the white comedians who. were making jokes about black people. Mhm. >> I felt that it was just an excuse for. them to be racist. >> public in public. >> and it wasn't [clears throat] funny. >> or interesting. As a matter of fact, I. didn't laugh until um Jeff Ross came up. The whole beginning of the thing I was.

like I don't this isn't funny. Why? Like. what's happening here? And then Jeff. Ross came on. I'm like okay good. And. then Chelsea Hanley Chelsea is good. And. so then you know and then I thought. Cheryl Underwood stole the show. No, >> she was phenomenal. >> Amazing. >> Just phenomenal. >> Yeah. Um, but I just thought it was um, you know, if you're going to tell a. joke, the very simple thing is that it. has to be funny. And I didn't find some. of those things funny. I found them. insulting. That's a roast. But I didn't. think that they were I thought they were. inappropriate. But do I think people. should be cancel for it? No. I'm. uncomfortable with it. I don't think. that they should be doing it. I'm not a.

fan of it, but you do you. >> So, I'll disagree with you on one side. I don't think anyone has the right to. say anything is or isn't funny. As a. comedian, I've always hated that. >> Whenever someone says, "That wasn't. funny." I'm like, "No, no, no. I didn't. find that funny.". >> In the same way some people don't think. Korean food is nice and some people. don't think that Indian food is good and. some people that's your opinion and. that's fine, but you cannot say it. definitively is how I feel about. anything that is a a matter of taste. Right. There are many comedians who.

[clears throat] I don't find funny, but. I would never say they are not funny. >> because other people find them funny. >> Yeah. because it's it's it's music, it's. a joke, it's a painting, it's a it's. completely subjective. Sometimes I watch. it and I go like, >> "Huh, >> I don't think that was funny." But I. don't go, "It wasn't funny." That's. that's the first thing for me. So, and I. know it seems like semantics, but I. think people No, >> no, I understand what you're saying. >> I always think people should remember. that not everything is for you and. that's great, right? >> Um that that that was that's the only.

thing that I disagree with. The thing. that got me, as I say, was I was going I. because I love roasts. I just felt. robbed because I felt like the roast. wasn't about the people who were there. >> who were there. It was just like, you know, and then it it it was like, okay, like I'll give you an example. Here's a joke that I thought was could. be construed as racist, but I think was. also extremely funny. Maybe I would have.

changed like one word. It was the the. joke when um Shane Gillis said, "Kevin. Hart is so short they would have to. lynch him from a bonsai tree.". >> Yeah. >> Jokewise, I think that's phenomenal. I. think it's funny because of like the. what it is doing in the joke is a very. funny thing. Now, lynching is not funny. Uh you know, slavery is not funny. All. these things are not funny. But that's. not like the job. The job of comedy is. to funny in what's not funny. Mhm. >> I think that joke it gets marred by.

every other joke of the night that. wasn't as good technically from every. other person who's there. Not Shane. Gillis. It's just like. >> but I'm like yeah but you know Cat. Williams I thought was amazing. >> I thought there were some jokes that. everyone said they were amazing. So. again. can I tell you what I loved most about. the roast? Funny enough. If you ask me. as Trevor you go like what did you think. about the roast? The thing I love most. about it is that it made people feel.

something. >> The audience had a reaction. The people. there, even Shane would say, "Damn, this. section is not with us at all." People. responded to it with maybe I am maybe. I'm starved of of authenticity so much. that that's all I focused on. But I. actually liked that people were like, >> "Yeah, look, >> I like I like that you as Don had a. feeling about it.". >> I feel the same way because like I said, I wouldn't cancel anybody for it. I. think it created a conversation and I. think it's good for people to be pissed. off and not like things and and and you.

say I disagree with you. Okay, great. We. disagree. That doesn't just mean we. don't like it. No, no, no. >> Do you know what I mean? So, I I'm It is. what it is. So, I feel the same way. I'm. glad it happened and I'm It gave me. something to talk about. It gave me. content, but by no means am I. criticizing Kevin Hart or. >> Oh, yeah. No, no, no. We're not even. saying that. >> But, you know what I'm saying? >> No. No. Completely. Completely. But. that's why I say the great comedians for. me cuz Kat did it really well. If you. watch Cat's whole roast again, you can't. tell if he believes it or doesn't.

believe it or like he he for me, he. executed a 10 out of 10 roast. >> He's brilliant. >> because a it felt like everything was. written by him and B it felt like. everything was true from his point of. view. He just said it in a funny way, >> but he had a higher degree of difficulty. because it had been beefing for so so. long. So, you know, he had that I'm sure. that was part of his thing. But Cheryl. Underwood did the same. >> when she came out and said, she said, "I. know your kind. You white boys, I know.

you're kind in public. You But it's. like, oh, you wish you could hit that. You wish you could.". >> That that to me is also, >> you know, like Eugene and I will talk. about this all the time. Sometimes. we we, how can I put it? Let's go back to kids. raising themselves. One of the things I'm sad about in. today's world is that we no longer leave. kids alone on a playground to resolve. their own disputes.

>> or let them go ride their bikes all day. and just. >> we don't do that. >> Because what we then do is as a society, if we are raised as kids who have. parents in the playgrounds all the time, we become kids who call our parents when. something is wrong all the time and we. don't resolve our disputes. Mhm. >> When you're just on the playground, sometimes you're going to fight, sometimes you punch the other person, some they punch you with the headlock, sometimes you just shout at each other, sometimes you walk away crying, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you. become best friends with that person. And I feel like that's necessary for a.

society to succeed. >> So for me, even in that world of of the. comedy, >> I think it's why Shane Gillis kept on. saying, "I phoned her. I phoned her and. I asked her about these jokes. I phoned. cuz the audience there was going, "Huh, Shane, huh, Shane?" And he's like, "No, guys, I phoned Cheryl and I" and he. spoke about it afterwards. He even said. on on um his podcast that he has with. his friend, he said, "Man," he's like, he said, "Man, the jokes were racist.". He said it. >> Yeah. >> He's like, "Ah, man, there was some. crazy racist joke." He's like, "But I I. asked Cheryl about the ones about her.

husband and she said she she loved them. and but the the people weren't invol and. now it goes to the parents in a way.". >> I'm like, "Ah, sometimes it doesn't need. to." As you were sitting as you were. talking about that I think about the. people who go on job interviews with. their parents like their parents drive. them to kids young people now go on. their parents will drive them to a job. interview. My husband who works in real. estate 30-year-old people who are. looking for their first apartment or 20. parents come and yeah [clears throat].

>> and chaperone them. >> Yeah. We're going to lose we're going to. lose more than we think. Yeah. >> I have another missing. >> You going I have another appointment. Were you going to come back then? >> No. [laughter]. >> No, no, no. I mean like in You got to. come back. >> No. Okay. Just we'll do another one. >> You like me? You really like me? >> Ah, Don. >> You think we would like. >> this guy? You think never do that? >> This guy. You think there's makeup here, Don? [laughter]. >> No, man. This was amazing. >> I love this. >> This was like genuinely, man. >> This is what a podcast should be. >> Music to my ears. But for real, man.

Thank you. Thank you for joining us. >> Can I be the third host? >> There's no hosts here. There's just. people at a table. always welcome if if. you feel like, yo, do you guys want to. hang? >> Yeah. Do you ever put four people, five. people? >> No. Try that one. >> No, no, no. You guys are not tricexuals. [laughter]. >> I really enjoyed this. >> This was amazing, man. You're the. greatest, man. [laughter]. >> Good to see you. >> Greatest. Thank you.

>> Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friends still. Let. them suffer for a change. [music] And. don't forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, [music] maybe there's ideas that you. have, you can chat to us. We will read. through the comments and we'll get into. it. Either way, I appreciate you taking. the time. Thank you for hanging [music]. out with us on What Now. And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to. hear from you. Till next time. Thank. you.