Christiana Gave Birth (Again)! | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

This is what now. with Trevor Noah. And I need to get into it. And I need to. I want what is what is. So because I am a male hobby not to watch because I've been watching football, the Premiership is depressing for you. Not the Premiership is not depressing for United fans.

There we go. Say it with your chest. Say it with your chest. The hard time. But I mean introducing. So I have all these my new kits for the for the kids. because one of my good friends sent them, Femi and he's Nigerian. He's like, there was a time when this meant excellent. And he was like, I feel a shame that I'm sending you. Yeah, go kids. This thing that means they're losers. I mean, it's the same as when you get, the, the outfit of a fighter and they get pop for steroids that week.

You're like, I just I already ordered the. Wait, wait, wait, fighters have kits. Kind of you can get you can get, like, the, what you might call it, like the outfit that their team wears in the walk out. Okay. I didn't know about the pants and everything you can get. And then you can get their personal merch, too. Yeah, but because they can't have all independent, like Puma, Nike, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they can have the UFC official thing and then everything else is from their site.

So then some people make like their own kit that you can buy. Yeah. And you'll like buy, you'll buy the kit and then it'll be like the fight is off. due to, high volume of HGH found in the system. And now you're wearing the kit. You're like, I feel like it was. That's thinking that. So, I I'm a Liverpool fan. And not just because it's going well now. We've had some tough times. That's why I feel for you, man. It was good under Klopp as well. Yeah, but I was around before that.

I was around when we were still like scrounging around. Do you know what I mean? I haven't been the longest Liverpool fan, but I've been a fan for long enough that I don't remember, like, winning things. Okay. Do you know what I mean? I remember your your glory garage, so like, even be. Yeah. Like you. Well, not before, but I mean like. Yeah. Because there was like the peak. Gerrard. Yeah. Where he was crushing it and then he had the slip. which you know, ended it first very painfully. But Yeah. But I was like around, you know what I was actually thinking, funny enough, is I was going like, I found. myself thinking that sports in that way.

is in some ways like the perfect analogy for for nation states. Okay. You know, like if you think about it right now, America has the man united of the world. Oh, God, that's that's hard to hear as a united or. No, but it's true, it's true, it's true. Think about. Think about it. I know that's not listening. Think. Think about this. Think about this, right. Whether you like America or not, you have to admit there was a point. where America was champion of the world without like, no hesitation.

You name it. You know, music, sport, culture, politics, diplomacy, the like. It was just like America is the country of the world. No one doubts it. It's. you went anywhere in the world and you said, where do you want to go, America? You know what I mean? Didn't matter what country you went to. America. That was like the thing. And then I don't know. I don't know when I would say the first, like, little slip. Maybe when Obama left.

No, no, no, I think it was I think before then. I think like I think okay, for me personally around like 911, I was like, not until I started bombing. the world was the first time where I noticed, oh, you mean that? Yeah, that was a that was the first like, Oh, I, I was thinking about when like, because this is so dark, because I moved to America after Bush started bombing the world, right? Yeah. So I'm saying, as an outsider, when did you consider, like, maybe I don't want to live there anymore? Obama was a you you're like, oh, I want to move to a place.

where Obama can become President Obama in this case is like Alex Ferguson. Yes, yes. You know, I hate. And then when Obama ends and, you know, if you follow the American story, you assumed it would be Hillary. Yes. And then Trump comes in as an outsider. You're like, maybe I want to reconsider. I don't know, although that's what I feel from because like, it's. kind of dark, but like the war in Iraq, we were countries were involved in that. Like as a Brit. Yeah, that's true, that's true.

But you I think you could be right. However, maybe I was just very selfish and blinkered. I was like, I still I still want to go to a place where as the American here. Josh, what do you what do you think? I'm not a well traveled person. That's not true. No, no. At the time of 9/11. Oh, okay. I'm not 11, I was 11, I was not a well traveled individual. Yeah. I mean, most people would say I was a child. Sure, but Josh still just judges himself as an 11 year old. But I was like, I would like when I leave a habit, I remember being scared. And then what I started to understand when I was in college.

So like, we're talking like 20, like like in 2012, I was like, like I, I guess I only saw it through media. Yeah. So in American media, you see other countries wishing they could come here, wishing that they could or even saying American propaganda. out loud in their home country of like, but we're not America, though, right? Yeah. And then when I got older and I was in college, I would take in more media. That was when I was like, the perception is changing.

And I had friends who who did travel, who told people. they were Canadian and like when they went to certain places. And I was like, oh, okay. Like because that wouldn't have even occurred to me. because I hadn't traveled much yet. And so I would say, though, to Christianity's point, when you really look at the the world view of, America after Obama entering. Trump, Trump had this weird way of like, I don't know if I have the words for it exactly, but he had this weird way.

of like bringing things to fruition, but it was him that did it. So then he would be like, America is. Look at us as a joke. Yes, but we became a joke. Yeah, yeah, great. It was a he was a prophet who made his own prophecies come true. Yeah, yeah. That's that's what Trump does. Like he literally I don't know if you remember. that clip was like the American dream is dead. Yeah. It's like that, sir. Sir, what do you do? But you know, you know what? You know, what has been illuminating for me is how.

Trump has changed one thing. In my experience, when I travel, he's changed one thing. fundamentally about America, and that is before Trump. Most places in the world I went to saw America as America. They hated America or they liked America, but that's how they spoke about America. Now, Trump is sort of has sort of exported American politics to the world. So I go to countries where some people like Trump. And then some people don't like Trump, but they don't.

They no longer have like a singular view of America. Does that make sense. Yeah. So even in South Africa the other day I was I got pulled over by a policeman. Very common that this is like it's not like in, in America. where your life starts flashing before your eyes and yeah, like in South Africa you get pulled over almost just for like a conversation. Sometimes they just want to look at your car, to be honest with you. Yeah. You know, this is pull you over and be like, brother, what what is this? And you're like, oh yeah. And you like, oh, it's nice, it's nice, I like it. Okay. So I got pulled over the other day and the cops. strip the guy, I roll down the window, he's like licensed.

Then he sees me and then he's like, oh, Trevor. He's like, hey, my man, what are you doing here? I'm like, what do you mean I'm home? He's that guy, my man. You should be there in America. Elon Musk, what is he doing to us? Why is he doing these things to South Africans? No, Trevor I yeah but Trump but Trump guys there was no time in my life. Where a South. African man in my in my entire recollection. Was speaking about the individuals in American politics.

You know what I mean. Even when Bush was like bombing the Middle East we said America. Oh that's interesting. It wasn't, it wasn't like Bush people were like man what America's doing. America's going up against the United Nations. America is ignoring this. America's waging a fake war America. Now I find everywhere in the world there's a break. There's Trump and there's not Trump. Yeah yeah yeah I think Obama did that. But in a different way. Obama made America look so cool and like it could like remake.

itself in its true way. Yeah. Because I remember that was like years ago when he was the first time he ran. And they did like a poll in Europe about if Obama ran versus I think it was McCain, or we had the first whoever was the first time, what were the voices? It was like 95% Obama. Like the rest of all out. It's a no brainer. Like, this guy's great. His wife is beloved. Europe like, who has never had like a black. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. They don't want their own white America. They were like, yeah, yeah. Well, of course it makes sense.

Yeah. It's time to have some change, you know. Yeah. How can America not have. And then you like, what about you guys. Oh yeah. Let's let's calm down. Yeah, yeah. Now it feels like dating at high school. where there's always that one person that's like, oh, you're so sweet. And you'll find someone like, what about you? Oh! Hahahahaha! No, you'll find I said someone. Yes, I mean I like that Josh. Yeah. Oh, no, I didn't mean it like. No no no, it's basically that I think so funny.

That feels like Obama did that and then Trump's done it the other way. But that's why I think they're twin flames. You know, I have this whole theory. Oh you do I am past yeah. Oh past life that came together that there's something about them. Okay. You're talking about different thing. No I think I'm about the same thing, but I'm talking about the witchy version. Yeah, talking about the sensible version. Trump is America's head. But like, Obama. Obama is who America likes to think they are. Because it's like the performance of goodness. Yeah. Yeah. The good because I think Obama performs as a good person as well.

And okay. He probably is a bit of an asshole I would be to in private. But like he is like humble in public. And then Trump is the dark side. So they like the darkness in the light. And you know there's an overlap in their voters, right? Yeah. The same people that voted for Obama. That's very true. Also voted for Trump in these swing swing states. He's appealing to the same parts of themselves, but just the dark and the light. Yeah, yeah. That's why he's like, maybe America should only. just have two presidents then forever. And you switch and switch back and forth. That would make it simpler. It would make it so basically just America,

you just go like, yeah, guys, what are we feeling? Like we're feeling dark times. Yeah. Oh, feeling. What are you feeling like? Hopeful. I'm feeling hopeful. The office for the president because I do. And people always take it the wrong way when I say it. But maybe y'all will at least get it that Trump is white. Obama. He's Obama for white people. Yeah. Who hates the idea of Obama? Yeah, yeah. And it's like that to me is why I think people keep underestimating you.

because I'm like, you guys aren't ready for like, okay, I think that you may need to cut this whole thing. Who knows? But I think that there's a, there is a, a thing. that is baked into America's understanding of the experience of a black person. So whether it's true or not or whether it applies to every person or not, there's a story that people are told about you before they meet you as like. a black American. It's like your ancestors were slaves. You have to struggle, but you always make it through. And like you had to avoid, like crime and drugs and getting somebody pregnant.

just to be where I am right now is like a like a white person. So just to be my coworker, you had to overcome all this stuff. It's like every one of your stories is like an Oscar movie. That's why we keep giving you the Oscar every time. It's sad. Right? And now you're living in a world where those there's so many cracks. in that thing. Not just because there are black people who are like, no, I grew up in the suburbs all my life and my dad's a doctor. But now you have white people who are who literally. are that story, but no one tells it in that way.

So, so they and so they're like, they're like, okay, you know, my great great grandparents were these Irish immigrants. They got spit on when they came here and everything. And I have a lot of like, drugs and crime where I'm from, like, people always make it Appalachia, but it's like, guys, it's everywhere. It is everywhere. It's everywhere. And so it's like my family was on food stamps, my family all all the stuff. like that. As a white person, we just like, never really talked about. And so then this person had to overcome a lot just to be next to this other.

white person, right? Yes. And and Trump speaks to that the way that, that Obama spoke to black people. who may or may have not been having that like stereotypical experience. And that is so powerful, it feels weird to tell white people. that they don't understand why people, but white people who are like. the living embodiment of everything we've been told black people go through, I understand better than like white people have always had it, if that makes sense. It makes sense because I America, more than most countries in the world,

has told people what their life should be and what it could be. Yeah, right. There's no other country. that goes like the pursuit of happiness, which is an insane like it's a crazy. In most cultures, they don't even believe in happiness. Yes. Like if I told my dad I wanted to be like, I think I told my dad that once, or as my mom, I said I want to be happy. And my mom was like, is that it? Yes, it's it's like there's that, but that is what you want for yourself. That's a lovely concept. If you said that to your parent, most African people are going to be happy, happy, happy. Go and study something good. Are you going to be successful?

You know what is happy? You leave me happy. Are you married? Yeah. You know what I mean. Like. Yeah. Like what is happy? The moment, my friends, is I. That was Jesus happy. Yeah. But then like, that is one of the wildest things I've ever heard in my entire life. That. Wow, she was making a big life choice, you know, but happy. She's like, was Jesus happy? Yes, but but okay, but think of it this way, right? Most cultures in the world will believe that happiness is a state of mind. And it's a moment you're not. You are.

You are happy. You're not, like, permanently in a state of happiness. Yeah, because it makes and you shouldn't pursue it. It's like, yeah, it's like doing pleasure is kind of decadent. It is right, it is right. But America is the only country that did that. And so in many ways, you have a country where they've told you. what is supposed to happen to you, what you supposed to experience. And so if you're not experiencing that, you're butting up against that. So it's like it's it's the, you know, 14 day money back guarantee. Think about how many people in America.

are going, but this is not what I was promised. And to your point exactly what you're saying, Trump is going you haven't gotten your your delivery. You haven't got the service. I mean you're supposed to get this thing. Yeah. But you haven't gotten it. And then those people are standing up and then other white people are like. but why don't they just, why don't they just and it's like yeah you say that. But these white people are going, why has it not happened for me? And Obama did the same thing. Yeah. He said America has failed on its promise. But yes, we can.

Yes we can. He was very you know, it's the sad. It's like the dark or the light. Yes. But yeah, but the people, whenever I say wide Obama, everyone's bad. Everybody. Everybody's like right. What do you mean what are you talking about? I'm like, yeah. And then I explain the whole thing. They're like, no. And I'm like, I, I understand. No, because you lead Josh, if you start with White Obama, I can see people immediately, viscerally. It's look in the will of stand up. Yeah. It's brilliant as a premise. Yeah.

As like a concept. But obviously most of the time. a great premise and stand up is terrible for regular conversation. Yeah. No, that's fine, because imagine if you came to somebody. and you're like, yep, in many ways he's like Muslim Jesus. He's like, I'm sorry, what did you say? Yeah, yeah. You can't take someone who people love and Revere. And then compare them immediately to somebody they hate. and not expect them to have to be a little bastard. No I guess I'm, I'm surprised how much everybody hates it in that. I still have friends from Louisiana who voted for Trump and stuff like that.

And then when I say he's while I was like, what? Yeah, but that's what I mean. I'm like, I'm like, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, I could understand my liberal friends get go. Then everyone's much worse the other way around. Yeah. The whole day. Yeah. You got to call this man White Obama. But can I tell you he is doing everything Trump is doing everything. that they told us a black president would do. Yes, this bad has a oh Cohen two days before I did. And then fleece said everybody and then it did.

So he'll even mentioned it. They asked him in the press conference when he already is like, is I? I won't say promising, but when he's when he's already jumpstarting this. like $500 billion project for all of these AI, CEOs before deep seat comes out and they're like, what about your coin? And he's like, I don't know, how much did it make? And then they and then they tell me like, oh, that's peanuts to these guys. I'm like, why are you let this dude deflect it real? That's that's a pimp move to just be like, I don't know who stole from you.

while holding the bag. That's crazy. I have been, surprised. might be the wrong word, but it's the only one I can think of right now. I've been surprised at. how, just like the lack of robustness in America's systems. You know what I mean? Yeah. You you take for granted how much of America is run like the game of golf?

It's just an agreement. Yeah. You're going to keep your score right. You, you, you'll tell us where your ball landed, right. Yeah. Of course, of course. Yeah. And you're not going to move the ball when you get there right. No no no no no. All right. And you, but you all you keep your own score. Think about how crazy golf is as a game. Everyone is out there competing against each other. Everyone keeps their own score. Yeah. You hit the ball. It goes somewhere. You then tell people where your ball was.

If you move it nobody knows which by the way. Fun fact Trump does all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Of course in actual golf. Yeah he did excellent golf 100%. You don't move the ball if you do. But all of this and people keep their own scores and the game is basically run. And there's all the rules. But a lot of the game is just a handshake. It's a gentleman's agreement. And I've been surprised to see how much of America is just a gentlemen's agreement. Also I mean I'm saying this as a Brit, how much is this ultimately resolved in court. And then there's a different court.

Yeah. So then it goes to a court in like this district said, no, America. just sues itself. Yeah. It just keeps it. And then it's always comp judges who are like, I'll take no, I'll get you to court. Yeah. Well thank you to court. So Trump does a thing. and then now I've realized just wait to see what happens in court. You have to wait for the final court though. It's like which court does it go to? Yeah. And then it's frozen because it's something that happens in court. So I'm like, I'm not saying not being a president is powerful. because we've seen how much it can shape the world. But now I'm like, oh, everything happens in court in this country. Yes. It's like the judges. Yeah.

I think also for your for your analogy of like the gentlemen's agreement thing, it's like that's also how our corruption is supposed to work. So when you're playing golf and you're keeping your own score. and you're not going to move the ball, everybody moves it a little bit. Trump moves, oh, I'm out of the water. Yeah, actually I know y'all watch the guy on the water. And then he dove in and he didn't dive. But he got someone to dive in hand on the ball. And then he threw it in the green. And then he goes, that's where my ball was the whole time. And then because we don't really understand how to like combat.

that, we're like, I guess that's where his ball was, the hole. That's maybe I'm trying. And I thought it went to the water. And so then because admittedly, with Dems and, and Republicans, there's always been the understanding the gentlemen's agreement. of like unmoving my ball a little bit. We'll both say I won't move my ball at all. Yeah, but move it a little bit. Yeah. I'm going to move to the bank after I've been running. Yeah, I'm going to move to the defense. Yeah. Off the running. Yeah. Yeah. But you're right. It's been, it has been subtle. Yeah. And it's like that's that even even like under people.

that we like there was that level of corruption going on. Yeah. It felt like enough corruption to keep everything stable. So we're still playing golf. Well, you know, there is the theory I forget the official name for it. or the title for it, but there's this theory. that says that there's no society that functions without corruption, and corruption is a necessary part of society for it to succeed. It's counter-intuitive. I love this because I love corruption. Yeah, but you Nigerian, I mean, this is not me.

Oh, but you just said I love that. I could have been my British side, the breed of corruption. Come on. I mean, say something. One thing I've learned about Nigerians. It could be my British. I can I tell you what I've learned about Nigeria. Now you're going to bring out your British side. Please. Brits are incredibly no, but no, no. But they don't love the corrupt. There's a different way we're embarrassed about it. That's what I mean. That's the difference. I think that's what it really is, is with. Trump is like it's the gentlemen's agreement. Like when he sat down with Zelensky, he broke the gentlemen's agreement. I'm sure many presidents have cussed each other out.

Over world issues. But the gentlemen's agreement is that you don't do it in front of the press. Yeah. Do you get. I'm saying. it's the same way adults, you know, like with kids, you'd be like, yo, we'll. We'll talk about this. Let's let the kids go away. We're going to go to another room and we'll discuss, because you don't want the kids to see this. because there's a certain level of decorum. And then what? He's got no decorum. That's what is not decent. What Trump did there is you don't you don't do that. amongst world leaders because it's not for the like.

It's not for us as the public in a weird way, and go into a room, fight about it. and then come out and shake hands and be like, yeah, you know, we had a good discussion and we're going to figure this out. And, you know, but I also feel like, forget world leaders, I would not invite someone to my house to cut them out. Like, if I want to cast you out, you're not coming to my house. That was the thing that kind of blew my mind about the internet. Like forget. But he didn't think. He didn't think he was going to cut him out. Oh, him. You know, he didn't. You didn't think so? I don't think so. Well, he thought Zelensky would kind of back okay.

So here's here's how I play out the timeline. Trump goes Zelensky's coming. Now Trump remember who Trump believes Trump is. Trump believes he's the greatest negotiator, the greatest dealmaker, the greatest businessman, the greatest peacemaker that has ever remember. This is the man who said on day. one he's like, on day one, I will reduce the price of eggs. I will bring them down. Day one, my eggs have only gone up. Yeah. Day one Israel-Palestine. I'm going to end it. We're tired of the war. We gotta end it where it's not over.

You get what I'm saying? He's the person who believes. He genuinely believes. I don't even think he's like lying about this. He thinks I'm going to go in. and I'm just going to tell them what it is and it's going to be the same thing. with tariffs. We'll do the tariffs, then the thing backfires. Then it's like, oh come undo the tariffs. Then we'll do the tariffs again, then undo the tax. But he believes it. So he goes you know what I'll call Zelensky. He's like I'm gonna call Zelensky. And I'm going to tell him this war needs to stop. And then Zelensky will stop the war. What happens? Zelensky shows up. Zelensky shows up in his outfit.

That's the first thing Trump is angry about because he's like, why is this guy even shows up here in a suit and tie? What is this man doing. Do you know I mean. And that was the first comment if you remember. No. No. Yeah. Points to the like. Well he got all dressed up. Look at him. Is there. So that's the first thing. The first slide for Trump. They go in. They having the conversation. They having it's a normal press conference until the end. And that's the moment where Zelensky says a thing that Trump feels. is something that goes against like him and is like a threat.

You know what Zelensky like you're going to feel the pressure. You're going to feel Russia's influence. You go and he's like, don't tell us, are we going to feel, don't you threaten me. And that's when it goes off the rails. But he I don't think he brought the man in to cut him out. I think he brought him in to solve it. And then this little man didn't come in scrounging in front of him. You know, I, I think some of the, the reaction to it, though, is. just like people are surprised to see someone cut someone out in their house. You forget it, but now you'll get them being to your point as a group of men.

Yes, someone came to your house and you cast them out. That's that. It's like just on a purely human. Yeah, decorum. And of course, I'll pitch you both this. I think that none of this would have happened. if Zelensky had shown up maybe two weeks to a month earlier, because you got to remember that Macron was just in there. correcting that man in front of his face and touching his knee. And so it's like, if you to talk about as a man,

I will curse somebody in my house. before I let a man correct me and touch my knee while he does it. That's oh, you must be out or about. Correct me or touch my knee. But if you do both at the same time, we fighting. And so he already had to take the l of the crowd. Right. And so then he took the L microphone. And then because, because to Trevor's point that thing that, that Trump does, he got to do very well with the I think it was the president of Egypt, right. When Egypt, basically says, hey,

when it comes to Gaza, we'll take the sick kids. Yeah, right. Which for Trump is not a contradiction because he's like, oh, we're going to send. some of the people to Jordan. We're gonna send some people to Egypt. So then sick kids are still people. Yeah. So then Trump is like, I didn't even know that. CE isn't that isn't that nice that he's willing to take the the sick kids. and that that's really great. And you can even see in the moments like maybe Trump is trying to continue. to do the salesman thing, but maybe he's also like, it's working like it's work.

No, he doesn't mean working. Yeah. And so then when Zelensky, who's just making a pretty rational point, he's like, guys, y'all think Putin's gonna stop? Y'all think China is just like playing games in the background? Like Zelensky is one of the only people you can tell, even from him. not showing up with a suit and tie. That's like living in the real world, do you? I mean, I don't know if you've ever been to, like, a like and I'm, I'm. not trying to put anyone on blast, but I don't know if you've ever been to the party. of someone who was about to not have money,

but like, they're still dressed and still putting out the orders. like they have money. Yeah, but you know that they don't have money, you know. So then, yeah, you show up in your hoodie and they're like, well, well it's like, well, well, well. you've got to live next to me. I like. I love the idea that Josh, you should know this if you invite Josh to your house, how he's dressed is a precursor to your moment in your life, how much money he thinks you have. Yeah, like, yeah, it just shows up in a hoodie to your party.

You should go check your bank account. Go check your investments. Go check everything. We're going to continue this conversation right after this. short break. And the most important news. in the world right now, across every country, is that Christiana had. another baby.

Before we get into, because I want to know all the details and I have many questions. for you, by the way, which I've been saving. Oh, many questions. Okay. Do you know how many people will talk to me about the podcast. and the thing they'll say? They'll go like, John, oh, George. Oh, he's very funny. Oh, man, love this thing. Oh, YouTuber Josh well, you know what I mean, by the way. Like, people think you like different people. It's very strange for me, but people will tell me about you. But then tell me about you doing something else as a different person. Oh yeah. People don't know I'm the same person.

They don't know you're the same person. You love them. I got DMs like angry DMs that are like, you stole the joke from the guy on what now? Because I'll do the. Yeah, I'll say the thing. Yeah. And then I'll say it on stage and they'll be like, I've heard that before, and you think you're slick and it's hard. You know, people say that to me. Oh, they'll go, they'll go like, oh man, I love the leather. Oh man. By the way, there's this comedian you should have on your show. His name's Josh Johnston. He's.

Then I go, you just told me you like Josh on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. And they go, yeah, but have you had just Johnson. Yeah. It's nice that no matter what they want to, to take up for me this. sometimes it's against me. It is against you. Yeah. Yes. You are the white Josh Johnson. Yeah. That's right. You are. But the other thing people say they'll be like, oh I love Joshua. Don't be like, oh Christiana is so funny. She's this is smart. But then they'll be like, is she always pregnant?

Yeah. How many children does Christiana have? The yo everyone men, women, old young people just be like oh my God. Like there's a comedian in South Africa and he's. and she was just chatting randomly and he's like, he's like, yeah, Trevor. is that guy that he's like that Christian. She's always pregnant. How is she always pregnant? Now I was like, what is? She was. And I was like, actually, she is always pretty.

It's kind of crazy. Yeah. First of all, congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. You are now the mother of a how old she is. Eight weeks tomorrow. Eight weeks tomorrow. So she's brand new. Wow. Still got that placenta perm. Yeah. Look at that. And you know, if you know how the hair comes out, it's not how it's like, hey. Yeah. So she's still got her placenta pump. I know I'm a mother of three kids, five and under. I've had. I've had more than three pregnancies. You guys know like, yeah, my womb is a strange place.

So I've had losses, done IVF, all of this stuff. And now it's landed me at three kids core wasn't IVF though. So wait, so are you. How many? What's the number you're going for? I'm stopping. Can I tell you guys something? No. Don't lie. No no, no. I'm like, okay, because they don't lie. Let me tell you why. You my choice. Trevor. Yes, yes, yes. But he's going to say above all, you say this all the time. Above all else you say it's your last baby. Above all else. To thine own self be true. Yeah, that's a quote that I love to live by.

I'm not saying this out of judgment. I'm asking if there is like an end goal because you are with children. the way dangerous leaders are with land. and like territory, they'll be like, I'm done. Remember when Putin said Crimea? That's it. He said that since. he said, now that we have you are you are the Putin of children, okay. Because every time I think you're done, there's another incursion, and then you're going to tell me about why you had to.

So you said after the first one you like Trevor, I will. You're like, don't ever have kids. I'll never have kids. Then second one, then you're like, I don't know who tricked me into this. Yeah, I can't believe I'm doing it again. I'll never. Trevor, I'm done after this. I'm done, I'm done, I'm done. We are now the third one. Okay. Can I tell you the difference? When? Tell me so. Unfortunately, I live in a very godless city, so it's a long time to get a vasectomy. And like I said, my husband. My husband, February 14th, had an appointment. for consultation for a vasectomy on on Valentine's Day. Yes, I said go.

Okay. He got there and the guy says there's a waiting list. But what happens every Friday? They open up the portal for cancellations. This is the vasectomy doctor in L.A., by the way. Everyone goes to him because he he does the job. So how hard is it to do a vasectomy? Forgive me. Oh, it's so easy. I thought it was so quick. It's quick, but this is a godless city. People don't want kids. So there's so many messages. So many people in L.A. getting vasectomies. If you want it quicker, go to like, Utah. Like. And Utah. It's like in that person be like, I've I've never done this before, but.

but let's see what happens. It's just snip snap. So so this is. I don't even want to go on too many tangents, but no gone all the time. because I want to know all the. because I've got people telling me, why don't you get an IUD? Why don't you do that? I'm like, no, let him do something because I've my body has been through. I don't I don't know, my husband is getting a vasectomy. And we have two embryos in boarding school. in case I ever want to get to five. I know they just stay. I don't know what to do with them. You see this is I'm pro-choice. But then I have all these things.

I'm like do I donate them to society? I don't like embryo adoption. No. You see, this is like, wait, wait, wait. She left herself a little. No no no no no no, it's not the out. It's just like I'm like, I can't keep having children. when I have like these to not souls, but things frozen in time. So they're there. I have to make a decision about what we do with them. They're in Texas. You have children in Texas? No. Children. Please. For the Republicans. Yeah. They're not children themselves.

Yeah, me and my husband. Cells. Yeah, yeah. Day five. It was like a matter of time before, like I. You remember when we were on the road, I used to have this joke. that I almost believe is going to become true. They just going to keep moving it further and further back. Yeah. You know why we want to take them out of Texas? Yeah. They go, but they're going to keep moving it further and further back. You know, they go like, oh no, the heartbeat or this or blip. in this inception. And it's going to get to the point where they'll just be like, your sperm is a look at how they swim. Yeah, yeah. How they swim. I'm afraid it's going to get to that. So anyway, okay, so even having core, I was like the ethical.

I was like, how can we do this when it was obviously she's not planned. Right. By the way, my thing about having three kids, I think it makes me look like I lack sexual discipline. And this. No no no no way. Why why why would you say who has three kids in this day and age? No no no no no no. But why would you need sexual. I whoever says that bring them here also people are very like people. Women with careers. Yes. Like ambitious women. You either have no kid. Yes. Or you have maximum two no kids or maximum child. That's what I found. I've looked at Why do you think that is?

Because no kids. You have freedom. Yes. Two kids, you have balance and it's what you do. I have three kids. Where, like, at capacity, like, it's it's chaos. amount, but, like, imagine a woman shows up for a job interview. I'm just talking about, like, a woman that maybe doesn't have as much privilege. And she's like, I have three kids. The person on the other side is like, this bitch is going to have another baby soon. I don't know if I can give her the stuff, you know? I mean, that's how I would feel. That's how I would feel. But I'm I'm saying that's a very rule.

No, I think you'd have to because you're in. Can I tell you can I? I'm glad you brought that up. Can I tell you something? This is something I feel like people don't speak enough about because we, you know, the problem with almost every single conversation. people have, not just in America but in most places. But I feel like America does it, you know, in the most extreme way. is that you can't have a conversation about anything. because it's overlapped with so many other issues that then people. think you're talking about when you're not talking about it. Right.

I'm glad you brought that up, because even with us doing this, you being pregnant is the worst thing for the podcast. When I told them I work, I walked in. Obviously I was like, they were like, like because my belly was showing. At that point, I was past 12 weeks. And then Derek, shout out to Derek, who works with Trevor. He was just sitting there. And since they're doing the summit, yeah, everyone's like, they were like, congratulations. Oh yeah, we could make the podium. What do you do there? I was so funny. It was a relief. And then there were like nobody but but it you know, I'm saying.

But with Josh I never with you. I go, okay, when is Josh on the road? When is Josh touring. When is Justin okay, cool. Whatever. But you know, you worry about Josh getting pregnant. Yeah. But when. No, but I'm not even worried about what I'm saying is you being pregnant. is the worst thing for our work schedule, right? Because you have to go see the doctor. Anything can happen at any time during the pregnancy. And I had a high risk pregnancy. There you go. You've got a high risk pregnancy. So your body is this fragile thing that is doing this. amazing thing that you have to watch out for on all these levels. And so if Christina's not, well, I'm never going to put a podcast.

over your pregnancy. You know, I'll never, ever be like. But the podcast. and you know, this from I'm the person who's like, canceled and by the way, like. so I feel very fortunate that I do this the work I do. and where I am in my career that I have like partners, like you guys were like, okay, how can we make this work? Right? That was like, okay, what are your dates? What do you want to take time off when I appointments, you know, they're the queen, the kings and queens of you know, you seem tired. Go. Go sleep, whatever.

But most women don't. Working environments. But this that I like that. Yeah, but it's like, you know, you're getting fired, you're getting demoted, you're taking time off. You're coming back at a lower level. You're already like postpartum. It's the worst thing you can do for your career having a baby. So now the truth. But no one says that. That's what I mean. We don't talk about these things because people feel like you're conceding. something that they don't want to concede. Right? Having a child is terrible for your career. Having a child is also terrible for the work environment, like for the actual for your company, your office.

Well, it's not great for it's bad. for the dads too, by the way, because a dad is like, I want to spend more time with my kid. Yes. Like it's just bad. It's bad. It's a good dad, a good dad. I'm a good dad. Okay. Can I tell you the the the bed that you would not know. had children. You'd be in a fantasy league with them. and not know they have a child. You will know their number one seed and not know.

that they have a child. Okay. For, someone who wants to be an active and presence. Yes. Yeah. For that. And in the current like, capitalist framework we have. Thank you. Where your work is on your phone, write your email. You can't escape it. It's very tough after work, drinks, socializing. Now they're like, return to the office. They don't want us to work from home. Right? So you're away from your family all day. If you're a man that wants to see your kids and be present, it's bad for you as well. But I think with and it's an argument conversation, me and Louis have a lot.

The woman you take on the actual physical brunt. of the pregnancy, the emotional, physical labor, the hormones, it's it's feel like you're being invaded. I find pregnancy very disempowering. I'm not one of these women. I. I have the most beautiful time in my life. I was I feel like shit, like I don't enjoy it. And I've had really I've had rough pregnancies. I've had my last bath was my favorite bath. I felt really powerful. I knew what I wanted, like, I felt very confident. Yeah.

And it was just like I'd done it a lot of times before to be like. listened to and postpartum was. I couldn't even really dwell on it because I had to have two other children. But for a lot of women, it's this earthquake and you're constantly. feeling aftershocks and whatever decision you make, right, whether you decide to stay at home with your children or also work as well, you don't have the support for the most part. Like I find my friends, I stay at home moms. They live really isolating existences and they do what that's not respected.

So I've been experiencing this through different lenses and in different ways. So I've gotten to experience the professional side of it with you. You know, pregnancy and a woman having children in the work environment, which I've loved. Like it's it's. because anything that gives me insights I love, you know what I mean? Like, if I was in that plane that flipped over, I would love it because I'd be I've always wanted to be in a plane that crashes, but I would like to experience it and then come out on the other side. Does that make sense? So if I don't live, I have concerning, but it makes sense.

Know what I mean is like I love things that give me insights. Yeah. So what is it like? Oh, I now know what it's like. You've seen up close multiple times now. Yes. Exactly. Right. So but then, one of. my best friends and his wife, they just had twins, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, indeed. And like, there have been some days where there's nobody to look after the twins. I don't know how many months older, but they like tiny. They don't walk. They don't do anything like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. They just they're like. They're like a lobby. They can hold it. No, no no they don't do they can hold the next up they can.

Then the Knicks are now they're able to hold the Knicks infants. Yeah they're infants. And some days it'll be like me and him looking after them. Right. For hours on end, hours on end. And the other day we were sitting together and we just like rotating the babies. And he like, broke his back many years ago. And then now carrying the babies on the stroller and the back injury came back. So for like a week he couldn't carry babies. So now I'm helping him with both of the babies and I'm running around.

But there was a point where we were sitting together. and you know what this is like, you know? But the baby's not like crying in a rotation. I call it witching hour. Yeah. So just as one baby starts crying, it cries. The cries of cries of cars are cries. You finally figure out what it is. Maybe you'd want it to be rocked. Maybe it want it to be fed. Maybe it wanted to be burped. Maybe it just wanted to move. Sometimes I just want to stand up. Sometimes babies just don't like you to sit down. This is what I've learned. Like babies are like, why are you sitting. like babies should be bosses in every office in the world. They do not tolerate sedentary lifestyles.

Babies are just like, why are you sitting there? Like, do you mean I'm chilling? The baby's like, nah, nah. Then you stand and then the baby's like, yeah, this is good, I like this, I like this. Yeah, that's all the baby's doing. Yeah, yeah. You finally get the baby to chill or sleep, and then the other baby's like, all right, my turn. Let's see what we can do with this. So we're in the spiral. We're in this thing. We're in this. I'm rocking, singing, burping, bumping, jumping, doing. everything with these babies. And I think, like two. hours in, I looked at him and I said, yo, how much longer do we have? And he said, what do you mean?

With the whole day? And then I looked at him and I said, how? How do women, how do they exist? And what I mean by how like, how do women exist? Is. I don't understand how we've created a system. where we act like that is not happening to everyone. Yeah, most people, especially in America, cannot afford childcare. They don't have support. They don't have systems they don't have. So they leaving their kids at home at a young age. If they get to that age where they can, or some people are like bringing the kid.

with them, where they can and how they. But I don't understand how we're going to live in a world. where we, on the one hand tell people, hey, the birth rate is dropping. We need to have more kids. Why aren't we having kids? This is not sustainable. But then on the other hand not support the very same people. who need to have the kids to sustain a population. And let's not even talk about. and I think this is around the Western while the housing crisis is so expensive. Yeah, yeah. No, it's all of it's schools aren't good but private schools,

all of these are expensive. So it's just like everything is working against you. And then I'd say like on a really. maybe it's like, I don't think it's vain for a long time. You don't feel like yourself in your body. You have this baby, your lumpy, your soft, you don't feel sexy. You know what I mean? It's like calling Instagram you like, you know, a zen pic. Everyone's very hot and thin right now, and you're just like, I feel like, can I tell you? Just as an aside, two things. One, I still think GLP one, that whole world. is unlocking something deep in humanity that we haven't even like.

We we haven't tapped into. I think it's unpacking a lot of the hacking that has happened to us. Right? Yeah. And if you're listening to us, I'm not saying like, go and take ozempic all of these things, but I genuinely believe that. almost everyone in society in some ways should be on it, because I feel like. in the same way that microplastics are everywhere now, I think we've all been, like poisoned by foods that have hacked our systems. And I think these drugs are the first things.

that are undoing a lot of that hacking. Yeah, I don't know how long, like how long you know, it'll last and how people will feel. Good. I'm not endorsing it in any way, but I just think GLP one in particular. But have you seen, have you seen how. now, like big food companies, you know, for lack of a better term, fast food companies and then chips and snacks and all of that. Have you seen that they're working on GLP one blockers in their food, so they will basically become ozempic resistant. They are trying to make food now that's that can resist Ozempic.

And when and all of these drugs. because the people who take this aren't eating junk food. and aren't becoming overweight and aren't getting sick and are becoming. more fertile and are becoming like they gamble less, they buy less, they smoke less, they drink less, they shop less. They. They do everything less of the unhealthy. Yeah. And because of that, they actually going to make food. that is. going to block the block so that they can get you back into that.

Sorry. That's just, just, just like. I wonder what that's going to do to people who really weren't in this at all. Like every like. if you just like regular Doritos and you are. near Ozempic, are you going to be like, look, I'll do anything. Yeah. You might be like, are you going to lose your mind? You must be hungry. Yeah. No, you actually might be hungry because. Because GLP one is produced naturally as I understand it. Right. So it's something that your gut is supposed to produce. when you are full.

Most food hacks that feeling. But if you, if you have a healthy gut your stomach tells you okay you're full. So now to your point. If it blocks that yeah we might get like cracked Doritos now. Yeah. This is what makes me feel crazy for children into this world. Well, I think could you for the worst thing is being like postpartum. in the age of ozempic. Because, like, I think I've been through, like, the entire life cycle. So when I had OB in 2020, then it was Covid, but it was a wave of body. positivity and everyone was saying, you're not your body.

Thank your body for just keeping you alive because you know, that was the 2020. It was like viruses. So you were just like, oh, I've got this thing that keeps me alive. Good for you. It didn't matter how it looked. And now the algorithm is just feeding me, oh your postpartum. how to get your body back basically in the sort of. Yeah. Content like lean is low. It's like. but and the timeline does look different because so many people are on GLP ones. And you look at the red carpet from the Oscars. or the Grammys and you're like, people look really different.

Yeah, I'm like everyone. Everyone is on it. So there's also being. everyone is a woman that's just had a baby in a very different cultural space, where a maternal body is like no one, no one wants to see evidence that you've. had babies. We we hate those bodies. It's a mom bod. It's so rude. Right? But. you know what's funny is that there's a dad bod, but we don't even have the baby. I'm used to the. It's true, though. It's pretty funny. Yeah, yeah. Like that's just get it. You know what I mean? Men are really.

We really have finished the game in a good way, because, like, they'll go like, mum body UK, she's had kids. Dad bod. You never had kids. Yeah. You've never physically had the children yet. Why are you using this as an excuse? I have not had to support someone in all the way through a pregnancy. I've had friends who have been pregnant and I've had, you know, I mean, like, I've just never been in a relationship. with someone who was pregnant and then seeing the whole thing through. So I'm not acting like, wait, wait, what? Okay, I know Josh, Josh, whatever you are. No, no, no. When I was pregnant with. Oh, no, no, no, this is me stuff. This is a thing I do the best thing.

That is the thing I have with Josh. Just generally. I don't know if it's because you're southern or. I don't know if it's because of. Just like your vibe. Sometimes you say a thing and I love this about you, but I think it leaves people thinking. you said something you didn't say because what you just said. Now, I think for some people, what they might have heard is. I have not stayed around for full pregnancy. I have not supported someone fully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's the way I worded it, but I just I'm not trying to have any stolen.

valor of like, oh yeah, I helped this person. I know, I know, I know you, I mean, this is like, this is over wokeness. You know, I, I no joke, by the way. I'm an ally for people who have been pregnant. However, I myself have. But not yes, not like but the bit. Is that the way? The way you said it sounds like Joshua's like. So, I want you to know that I've never stayed around, to see an entire pregnancy. Do. I've been there when they told me I had been there, when they were done.

But, I've never know. Josh, I you're not saying I've never got anyone pregnant. Cool. Okay. Yeah. And so I've. I can only imagine what it's like to actually be, you know, like, like Louis or in that situation, but the closest thing I can, I can guess from the dudes. I know who have, you know, had kids and everything. It's not just gaming the system. in a way of like, there's very little that, dad has to do.

There's also you want to do something, there's nothing for you to do. So I, I equate it to, like, how it feels when you've hired movers, because now you've hired the movers and they're in your house. and they're doing all the work and you're like, oh, I CA and they're like, you would literally be in the way I did. You help? If you help me right now and you hurt yourself, I, I can't help you. So, like, just be over here. That's not you're standing in the quarter while somebody moves all your stuff. and you're like. But I think I could have. You can't trust anything.

We work out all day and we move all day. We don't need you coming down the step. Whoa, whoa. And then now all of a sudden your neck is broken and we don't get paid. I feel I feel so bad I'm such a I'm such a mean pregnant woman. Because I'm. It's not true. Not. Oh, maybe in the house. In the house. Trevor, you'd be like, Bye. No, I think my character flaw is that when I'm frustrated with things, there's always, like, the target of my frustration, even if it's not that person themselves. So I think Louis had to absorb a lot of my, my complaints about.

But also, I I've had three kids for this man, so I feel like I like. I like how yeah, I like how quickly went from. I was like, man, this poor guy's you're I had these kids with. Yeah. It is, it was like your favorite, your favorite line. That's what we must be. Say what Louis is. Yeah. Like a little bit of rationalize. Little. A little bit like, nah, you did this to me. But, you know, he's. very active, supportive, like he's a great parent. Like, I'm always like,

if I say to him, like, if you died and left a widow, I'd go and get you back, because I can't do this without, you know, just don't die. But that's beautiful, though. No, but, like, he's as beautiful as a threat. I mean, but it's beautiful. It's a stay healthy go to the doctor. But, like, how big is your community? Like, how do you. Oh, my God, is it just the two of you raising the kids for the most part. So because your parents are in the UK, my parents are in the UK, his family is in New York. Yeah. We were very fortunate to have a nanny who focuses on two Luna.

Now we just use numbers for the children, so we get their name. Just, just, you know, this is first way, is it? Okay, this is on to, Louis currently does the heavy lifting with one. Okay, so he gets dressed for school, gives him. breakfast, takes him to school, takes him to any activity. he needs to have, and then brings him back, etc., etc. and I focus on three. Okay, but we have a like a great village, like, my parents. come out to New York this week to record these episodes. My parents came out from London. They're currently in the hotel like ten minutes away with Cora.

Three Louis. His parents have already come out. They came out shortly after Cora was born, and they spent two weeks. with us helping us out. So even though we don't have our village always physically present, people are very supportive. And I think, you know, it's great to have like the physical support, but so much of parenting is just like the psychological toll. And you guys upon the village like friends, family. How you doing? Checking in. Three of my best friends from my childhood. What was school girls together.

We're in a group chat and we're always, like encouraging each other. Do they also have kids? They also have kids. They also have kids. and we're all in different life phases with the kids and ages in and out. And even before they were like, how are you? How are you feeling? You've got your pump like your texting me. Yeah. Or if I came in to get day. So we have a village. We are incredibly supported but we still most days feel like we're treading water. So I cannot imagine. how I think most parents in America or in the West are just drowning. Yeah, it's I'm glad you said in the West, because that's something that I've.

found is the ultimate, paradox of coming from a developed country. versus a developing nation, you know, so first world, third world. is the thing that you're sold. in developed nations is that you have everything. Oh, it's great. The roads work and the schools are fantastic. And there's health care. And, you know, this is a great country to be in. The one thing that nobody seems to tell you. is that as a country becomes more and more developed,

the one thing that gets eroded is community. Yeah. The village disappears. Yeah. And what you have to do is you have to buy the village back. Yeah. You know. Yeah, yeah. So buy the house. You literally. You have to buy somebody to look after your kid. You have to buy somebody to help you clean your house. You have to buy somebody to help you cook. Yeah, it's by somebody to cook. You have to buy. You buying the same the same village that they tricked you. into not having, like, I was, I was. I'm always amazed at the con of it all.

This machine, this larger thing told everyone. you should get your own house and you should live by yourselves. How can you still live with your parents in the same house? This is ridiculous. Well, and so everyone goes off, they get their own house to live by themselves. They have a kid and now you need somebody to come and look after the kid. But they can't just come a few. If you you know what, you should get a bigger house. They could live with you. You could have a live in nanny. Yeah. Where I'm from, they call that an aunt. or a sister or the grandmother they call the sister.

Yeah, they call it a and and in the West, that's one of the biggest things. I've realized is every time people bring up. statistics of how birth rates are declining in the West. I'm, I'm. amazed at how people never seem to want to talk. about the fact that the West doesn't encourage people to have kids. And what I mean by encourage is not telling people to do it. But encouraging is facilitating, I think in many ways, yes. So I remember years ago when we had this conversation. for the first time, of like being careful not to let people convince you.

You need to like, buy the people you need. Yeah, stuff like that. Because at the end of the day, this person, you pay this price, you pay this price, you pay none of them would like come and get you. Yeah. Like that's not who you call. You mean it's like, no, no, I just want your kid. I'm not going to come get you from a bar. Yeah, because they're not your friends. Yeah. They're not. And and so they can become in some way can become over time. But. Yeah. Yes. And so, so then. there's like that specific aspect which I've,

I've tried to like, apply to my life. and I've tried to tell as many people as possible like, hey, hey, this could be a friend because that's what we're doing with AI now. Like, there's literally like, I friends, in a way. I'm like, guys, come on, come on. Yeah, try it with a person. Yeah. I mean, it won't be perfect. But then the other thing that you both have sort of like. help me contextualize for the first time is that like, it's, it's amazing that business is able to do the things that people think. are impossible in their own life.

So your your Doritos, your laser, whatever. you see, Ozempic everyone says that everybody's on it. But a lot of people can't even afford it. So like all people essentially. Yeah. And so it's like this is just the first like. 2% of what we're going to see from these drugs. And already they're like, okay, then we need blockers. We need blockers so that by the time. the pause can afford it, it won't even work. Right. And that thing is like seeing a need and addressing it immediately. Whereas like with people,

they're telling us, you should have kids, there's a birth decline, everything. It's like, well, then as a business, don't you think that it would benefit you? Yeah, as quickly as possible to institute some sort of like maternity. paternity leave to, to like, so like have these systems set up in your business. So that way the next crop of people that you hire will be comfortable having a kid. And now you have more employees for the future. But everyone is like so from pounded. on and from and because we were made to be cogs. and not not like people like if you if you talk about the birth rate and.

only some people care about the birth. rate, the rest of the people talking about the birth rate, care about the supply. No, they do they I mean, they completely care about it. That way they go, the market is going to collapse. Yeah, that's what they mean by. Yeah. The birthright. Yeah. They're not saying it like people will disappear. Yeah. They're saying. guys we if this happens at some point the economy is going to collapse. There will be a new labor force. Yeah. You're not wrong. It is completely through the lens of labor, I think. So that that just blows my mind. That's what they're I mean, what they've seen.

I think there was Japan a few years ago, experienced the first year where they saw. more adult diapers and diapers for babies. Oh, because of. they have this huge geriatric population, but people aren't having kids. But t to both of your points, maybe because of the way I was raised. And so my husband's Dominican so very immigrant family, very family folks Dominican, Dominican. and I'm, I'm Nigerian and you know, you know what that means? We live in L.A., which some people say is a vapid place wherever.

But there are good people there. And we focused a lot on building our community. Like, yeah, we take our friends kids, even when I was. pregnant, I'll take a friend's kid and people take our kids. And one thing I will say in this postpartum period, it. being spending time with other people and being active. in our trying to build that community, it paid dividends in small ways. There was a mum at Obi School. who sent me a text and was like, I've dropped something at your door, like it was. It was very sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pick up lane. She dropped something at my door and I looked out. She'd brought me just some tea. I had another friend, my friend Chris. She was just like, I'm in the neighborhood. And she bought food like that. You can heat up and stuff like that. And then Corey's godparents. Darren, me, they came by, just held the baby for a bit. So I think sometimes we complain about not having community, but are we trying to be good community and village members? And I think that we're in this like me, me, me selfish society. Whether it's about whether you're about your grind,

your money, your holidays, what you're into, and we've actually forgot how to be village members. And we then we were shocked. We don't have a village. So for the last couple of years, I was a I was doing that myself. So I was just like, how can I be bad to the people around me, or just show up in the small ways that I can? And this is why I think this time around, being in a country that's not my own, I felt more settled and more supportive, more checked in. because I was always I've been more present for other people,

and I think that that's a hard thing to say to mothers or parents. I like how many people you therefore, because you're like, well, I'm drowning. But I think if you have that mentality of like, what's the little thing I can do for, you know, is there a parent in my, child's class? I can be like, oh, I drop them home sometimes, oh, what's the little thing you can do? And that accumulates. And that's how you build a village. Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this.

So there's a. there's a paradoxical idea that is very difficult. for people to accept, but it is almost unanimously agreed on as being true. And that is that over time, load. starts like level off. It was a curve, you know what I mean? So if you're looking after a child, it's a lot of work. If you're looking after two children, it's more work.

You know, three children, it's work. It's weird. But at some point the work doesn't actually increase, you know, at the same rates. You know what I mean? So it's not jumping. Are you pitching me to have more kids? No no no no. But surprisingly, it really is. It isn't jumping in the same way. Yeah. Now costs might jump and don't get me wrong on that side, but like, think of it. this way. I love that you said that we live in a world. where everyone thinks, and I understand why people think this. Everyone thinks that they're doing it alone. Right?

So you're grinding alone, you're running alone, you're having a baby, let alone you. Everything you think you're doing alone, you really do think you're doing it alone. And the world, I think, tells you doing it alone. And then. part of the way it does it to you, I feel, is it tricks us into rewarding us alone. I think that's like a key thing as well. Personal bonuses. Yeah. It's a personal bonus. It's like it's private thing and it's your money you know. But if you to your point. took on a little more load in your world for somebody else, you don't realize how you've given them a thousand times more space.

Right. So let's say a couple has their kids. and they say to all the parents in their group, hey, send your kids on. every Thursday will look after everyone's kids if you want. Like we're going to post like a little mini kindergarten type thing. Now, don't get me wrong, you might hate your Thursdays. You might be like, okay, this is war. Here we go. The invasion begins 6 p.m. it's on. We hate our lives, but the amount of space you've created.

for the other, let's say, five families that have dropped off their kids, it scales exponentially. Like way beyond what you are receiving us as load. Does that make sense? Yeah, but they get to go off. They get to have a couples date. They get to go work more. If they need sleep to go sleep, they get to do something. But if everyone is doing that on every day, all of a sudden you're in a world where we. which we should be trying to get back to, which is what we had when we were growing up. I know our parents had a tough time in South Africa. I know they did, but I can tell you.

they didn't have as tough a time, contrary to what people may believe, because you might think coming from a third world country. means you'll have a harder time raising kids. I actually think a lot of it was easier because the load was always shared, the load was always shared. It's so funny you say that about like, community right now. I'd say one of the most invaluable members of my community is my kid sister Emily. Yeah, she moved in with us in January. And when I told like, just strangers that, oh, yeah, my God, sister is going to move in with us. Like, why would you want someone in early 20, foster?

I was like, yeah, you know, she's coming out to L.A., she's got a job. I'm like, you know, I love her to bits. I love her parents. Let her come live with us. And it's so now I see the benefits of, like, intergenerational housing. Yeah, because now OB has someone to look to. Yes. It's not as old as because she was. He was like, what are you. You're not a grown up like he you even know what this thing is. She's like you said you were like, well, I am a grown up. I am a you. I'm a young, grown up. So he he has this thing to look to that he can play with is like a pressure.

relief valve. Right? I just have another sister. A sister in the house, do you know, I mean. And then she has like an older sister, an older brother to kind of look up. to, to ask questions too. And it's changed the rhythm of all of our lives. Like she's up early in the morning because of the kids. I'm learning about chapel and all these crazy people because of her. Yeah. I'm like, well, don't have is now, but it's like it's opening my mind, it's. expanding my heart, and it's just like, we have a bigger family now. There's some cultures where you would never let someone live with you.

Yeah, that it's not in your. But it's been one of the best things. Yeah. Things that happened to all of us. Yes. And then when we had Lewis's parents there, we had like the grandparents. Yes, Karen. And that's how I was like, oh, the rhythm where we're living now. Yeah. Someone's alone. Or you having a 2.4 family with 2.5 kids. That is not how we're actually all supposed to be communal. and have multiple generations in the same space. And not having that is really bad for us. I think it's the worst thing that we've done. Well, I think about when I was little and staying at my grandparents,

my mom had to go to work or like visiting my aunt or, you know, whatever it was. And then my parents were separate for a little bit. So I go over to my dad's or whatever, and I was like, mad. after what you just said and what you've been say, I'm like, yeah, I spent just enough time with everyone that everyone liked me. Yeah, yeah, maybe I didn't really have enough time to get on anybody's nerves in that way, you know? Which is my mom was a single mom. Yeah, and that's crazy. My son was a burden. Because you speak to most single mothers. Yeah. They're like, I'm overwhelmed.

Oh, yeah. I'm drowning. Yeah. And it actually impacts the. relationship I have with this kid because I'm always strained and I'm ten. Yeah. So just having that pressure relief valve like oh I like my kid to be fair. to my mom it's like her breaks from me were work. But at the same time sometimes it was just like going. to my grandma's for no reason. So it's like sometimes it was like, yeah, her break for me was having to like, do her job. But at the same time, there were some times where I was with my grandparents for no reason.

and not no reason, but to spend time with them. And so it's like I was such a mama's boy as well, that like. by the time she comes to pick me up, I'm so excited. And she can be excited because I'm like, mom! Yeah. Whereas, oh, I remember one time, I don't know if my grandparents were sick. or what it was, but I couldn't go over there. and it was just us, and I was like, I do talk a lot. And my mom wasn't even yelling at me or anything, and I could see that on her face when I was like, this story is going on.

I, I had to be like 11 or something. I was like, oh, it was like I was old enough. to, like, recognize in her face your your your, what they call it again, your self awareness. Yeah. That's like the self awareness ticket. I was just like, oh. And I want to get to the end. But she, she this is a man at the ground. Yeah. This was your first bombing in front of an audience. Yeah, yeah, as a comic, you know, that feel way like. Yeah. Should. Should I finish the bit, should I? Yeah.

Oh, I've lost them. Oh, I've lost them. Because if I stop the story right now, I'm gonna seem like I have a head. And yes, she's gonna take me to the hospital because I'm, like, gearing up, and it's like, I don't think the turn is enough. Yeah. Wherever you are, it's like that, right? Yeah. I was completely village compound people. Your cousin, can I. Can I tell you. probably one of the biggest things. that keeps me afraid of having a kid, especially in America, is. I just. I'm like, it doesn't seem like what you would want a childhood to be.

No, it's not also because of how they've robbed children of autonomy. Yeah, like when I was a child. You know what my job was 99% of the time. Go play. That was like my job. That was like my official. If you said to me, like, what is your job? I'll be like, I got to go play. My, my mom, my grandmother, they would say go outside and play. You go play with other children. You go to the park, you meet the kids at the park. and you play, you know, the the park hierarchy figures itself out. There's a kid that swings the swing too hard.

You might fall, you cry, then you stop crying. And then you. When I walk past playgrounds today, there's a little prison yard. Yeah. Every parent is watching every kid. Like every parent, every parent. They're really surveilled. Yeah. You could have two parents watching 30 kids. I think you'd be fine. I genuinely think you could be fun. I don't know why people don't have contracts at the park. and just be like, all right guys, who are the two parents of the day? Yeah. You should have two people. You're all afraid of pedophiles. Yep. But this is a this is an overblown.

It's a crazy. Do you know how you know, I've been on this deep dive recently of going down. rabbit holes, seeing where I would like fears and and all these ideas came from. a few kids got kidnaped when the news thought it was the best story. And now everyone's like, every kid gets kidnaped, no, children don't get kidnaped. But also they also take any kid. I'm not worried about my kids getting kidnaped kids, but the kidnaper will bring them back the number. And I know someone would be like, what about this kid? No, I'm not saying no kids get kidnaped, but I'm saying for the amount of stress.

that people have about it. Yeah, trust me, you could have two parents at a park. It's already fenced in. Tell the rest of the parents. Go hang out. Go have fun. Go talk to each other. Get to know each other. Build your community. Let your kids figure it out. Kids are not you. If you. I can't imagine what would be like. watching my child slide down a slide every single time. It's miserable. I would hate them and I would hate myself. Daddy, look. Yeah yeah yeah. Daddy look again. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah daddy look again.

Yeah yeah yeah know at some point. And I'm not saying that I don't want to see the kids slide ever. But I also want the kids to slide for themselves. Yeah I want the kids to live in a world. where they're only sliding when Daddy or mommy is looking. And I also want them to know that like you can fall off a slide. Yeah. I'm going to catch you. There's going to be moments. Are you going to fall and just going to hit the ground. You're going to bump something and you're going to smack something. and you're going to come back with like a bruise. Do you know how nice it was to go home to your parents? And they go, what happened? We'd like to imagine not having that. Yeah. No, because we have a story.

It's about you come home with such a bad boy. But I want to know something like you. You keep saying postpartum. Yes. For everyone. Because, I mean, the fourth trimester. Yeah. I'm just. Yeah. I'd love to know for. for everyone, you know, for men, but for people who haven't had kids. So please, can you break this down like everyone just talks about postpartum. And then sometimes I'll hear people say postpartum depression. But, what is postpartum like? What is it? Actually, it's the immediate period. Yeah.

After you've had, a child, after you've given birth, it goes up until. Well, they say the doctor say. it takes two years for your body to be what it was before. And it's never going to be what it was before, but to, like, kind of get back to it. And postpartum looks different for everyone. But there's this huge hormonal crash because your body's. making all these hormones to grow the baby. Yeah. And then there's this huge crash, and that can mean lots of different things. Your head falls out for a lot. Women, I always my hair falls out every time. So you you lose the like or not lose your head.

Have the baby. Yeah. Your head grows in pregnancy is something you glowing your nails. and then you have the baby and all of those hormones like progesterone. Everything comes down, and, I get horrible night sweats. That's my really gross thing. So in the night, I always have. I have nights that's so bad, my fingers wrinkle and I get shivers. So that wakes me up. And I put on Sydney pajamas every time. So you get stuff like night sweats, hair falling out, you know, in the immediate period when your breast,

if you're breastfeeding, your breasts get really engorged. and they like breastfeeding can be quite rocky for some people. Your skin changes, obviously your body changes. All your organs are moving back into position like a uterus is coming down. again. You know, because pregnancy moves your organs out of the way. And then for some women, that involves anxiety, depression, coming with the hormones. Also because the stress, like a newborn is like a very fragile thing. And I think from a completely like. evolutionary biology perspective, your job is like to keep it alive.

So it's just like these some women get this thing called phantom cries. You hear your baby crying even though they're not crying. They're happens lot, which, yeah, you're just like the baby's crying. and your husband's. like, no, it's no, but it's just like, it's it's all of these things at once. And all the research shows that women in cultures. who are more supportive or supported have less postpartum, anxiety. A big thing that actually helped me this time is that, our pediatrician, just amazing woman called Doctor Priest. She does home visits.

So Doctor Priest would come. over and weigh Cora and ask any questions at home. At home. Because before I would have to go to, a different facility to go see the pediatrician somewhere else. So I think a big part of what helped my postpartum is I'm not. a pediatrician would come to the house. I'd be in my pajamas, she'd do the exam, and then she'd ask me, like, how are you doing? She just chat, check in. How's breastfeeding go? Oh, you're not sure about the latch? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about. Well, her weight's great without a up, you know, it's just having a.

a the person that was medically supervised to look after my child, right. Was a big part. And and her coming to the home, that changed everything. So I didn't have the. postpartum anxiety that I typically have had in the past, and I think I had some of the confidence of a third time. Mom. But, you know, postpartum is also a big identity shift. because every time you have, a baby, you do go through that shift.

And now it's like a new identity as a mom of three or as a kid. at my kid's school, said Opie's mom, why are you always having. babies? You got to have, so like, why are you always having a baby? And for a lot of women, you don't want to just be known as a mother. You still want to feel like yourself, but you have to find a new self every time. And that's very unsettling. You know, so, like, postpartum is a big thing, and I think it's not necessarily recognized, it's not talked about,

and there's a lot of shame around it. Because no one wants to feel like they're weak or they're inadequate, you know, and I still do. I still think that's. even in the most developed societies or more supportive of high society, we still haven't figured out how to help women in that next life phase. And that's where I find in traditional cultures, I can speak specifically like in South African ones. A lot of that load is just taken off your shoulders. So.

So for instance, one of the big ones is, elderly women sort of tell you that you don't know what you're doing, and they're like, it's fine. They don't even give you the whole, like, you're supposed to know what? No, no, no, no, no. They just like memo. Bring the kid. Bring the baby. Yeah. You don't know what you're doing. Go sleep. Go rest for sleep. And they look out for you, baby. And someone cooks for you. And another person does your clothes and they'll, like, make sure your clothes are clean, and they wash you, and they help you and they comb your hair. Then they bring the baby back. But the job of elderly women in a lot of like South African society.

and African society as a whole, they'll just be like, no, no, no, your job was to have the baby. Yeah. Our job as the village is to help you raise the baby now. But you relax, you go sleep. You almost. I would be I would be intrigued to find out if anyone who grew up. in a very traditional society, if they have phantom cries. Because I feel like if you know that there are other women. looking after the baby, I wonder if your brain can, like, actually turn off and go like it's fine, they're not crying. And even if they were crying somebody, they're looking after them. Yeah, well, I like, for OB and for Luna.

I did a thing called a mogul, which is in Igbo culture. The 40 days after you have a baby. My mom came and my dad, being very modern, also joined my mom for the first time. We did this like, can't believe I'm doing this. Woman. I was like, you know, but he came out and they did all of that, like. they made like the pepper soups and my mom. Yes, yes, spellbinding and all of that stuff. This time we we didn't do it. But yeah, that whole thing of being really having people around you, there's a TikTok video that's gone super viral, of as a group of black women,

they drive up to their friend's house, they're playing go by Destiny's Child. and they're screaming it, and the their friend closes the window and shuts the curtains. and they're like, girl, they're singing the song. now you need to come outside and they break down the door. Basically, she was postpartum and she'd been sending these texts about, not feeling too good. And and they were like, we were going to we broke down the door to see her. And I think, like, if you're in a culture where it's not like South Africa or not. Yeah, developing countries where the system is in place, like your friends need to be willing.

to, like break down the door, like, just intrude. You know, like, because in the West, you're south, it is right of intruded your personal spaces. You have to overly respect. You know, there's cultures where people. just show up to your house, hear you plan, you know. Hey, Josh, are you home? Yeah. You go to a restaurant here, you don't even go to people's house, I think. Don't be afraid to intrude. And as well. But you could, you could, you could. Because I think most women and men are afraid to ask for help. So you have to just like, do the thing. Don't say, what do you need? Just do a thing, you know, which we should do. We will. We'll actually have an episode on.

We should bring somebody on who, like, specializes on. But I mean the topic of maternity and the because I think I think there's a, there's a, there's a lot in it that we could enjoy because I. one of the biggest things I've come to realize. in having conversations about everything, really, is you'll be shocked at. how many times the thing that you think doesn't affect you completely affects you. You know? So you think, oh, we're talking about pregnancy or postpartum. Most men will go, well, I guess I'm not part of this conversation. But even in the moments we've had here,

I think about how many men out there are at an office. now, stressed out, out of their minds and not figuring out what to do, or emotionally drained because they don't feel like they're showing up. for their kid or not understanding how to be supportive to their partner. You know, some men out there, like Josh, are not supporting pregnant women in their lives at all. I they're not sticking around with the pregnancy. I'm doing my best. I'm only so involved because it is not my child. No, but I think we should do it.

We should have, like, a full on, you know. Okay, I have a question for both of you. Okay. Yeah. You had the Josh question. What's the Josh one? Do you want kids? It's I don't yeah, yeah, it's it's tough because I don't think so. And it used to just be my shortcomings as a person that I felt. like I needed to figure out. And then it became a little bit of, like how the state of the world. and everything, which I know is like, here and there, like, that's enough. It's never going to be a right time in the world to have a kid or anything.

But yeah, I guess I still don't know. Which is like, you know, a, like, a privilege and a luxury. I definitely. feel like I need to figure it out. in the next few years, because I don't want to be an old dad. Yeah. I mean, like, I don't want to be one of those dads. that becomes a dad at like 55 and then goes to pick up their kid, and other kids are like, what's wrong with your dad? But, you know, all the dads now are all dads, by the way.

Josh. Yeah, yeah. So I guess it wouldn't be. And I will say you might say old dad. I would say, Why is dad? Why is that? Because I find like, older parents just carry themselves a little different. They may not be able to run and jump as high. Yeah. That's what I'm worried about, is I can't play ball like a wise man. Yeah, but you know what? A wise dad is more patient with their kid who can't hit the ball. Yeah, that's what I see. Yeah, that's fair, because, you know, you also can't hit the ball. Yeah, exactly. There's a young dad out there be like, well, come on, hit the. Come on. It's just a little too much testosterone so I don't.

yeah I don't think you've missed. And also just to the point you said previously. the the world has never really been in a better place. I'll also say that. No, that's fair. And that's why we think of it through the lens of like, microplastics. Because there was a time when one flu killed your whole family. Yeah. Now imagine having a child during that time. Yeah, yeah, I think the reasons keep shifting, but I think when you're so unsure about something, it is, it's a it's a real, like, sink or swim thing.

Like, if I'm making a decision that's career. wise and I'm very unsure, I'm like, what am I really scared of? Maybe just do it and see what happens. But like a another person. Yeah. No, it's not a see what happens, you know and I and if anything I've been like. even more stressed out by my friends who kind of had that attitude. where I was like, I was like, so when is, you know, or when do you feel like they were like, oh, my, oh, oh what what do you. And then and don't get me wrong, those people.

I think are actually perfectly good parents because I think that they didn't. go into it with that. They're probably the ones. most likely to go ahead and be like, oh, you'll watch my kid for the afternoon. Yeah. Oh that's great. And then you'll, you'll find sometimes that the people who are like, so well. thought out and so overly helicopter make some of the most stressed out. kids anyway. Yeah, because they're so scared of making a mistake that now the kid. is also because I don't know anything about having kids. But I imagine those first few years, it's got to be a little bit like,

how would you have a when you have like, a dog. and you're clearly nervous, you're making the dog nervous. because this kid doesn't know what anything is. No. Yeah. So they just see you going and they're like, okay, is that is that life then. Yeah. Yeah. Should life be like that, you know. So Trevor do you want kids? Oh my. Do I want kids? Okay. How would I put it?

I don't want kids, but I don't not want kids. Right? I would hope that kids. would be the byproduct of something that I'm experiencing. But you have to. They're six. Oh, man. Yeah. Oh, but but you have to. So. So here's. Okay. Here's why I'll say this. I have the luxury in that I don't have a body clock like a woman does. So I start with that. The second thing is we'll put a pin in that. That's for another episode. Yeah, but I don't I don't have a body clock in that way.

Right. The other thing for me is that's. when I think of having a kid and I go like, why do you want a kid? It may be a little too esoteric, but I go, I don't want my kids to necessarily have the burden of me wanting them for. that reason, to fulfill something in me or to not, you know, like it's great. I think it's important to not put that on the kid. You have ego death already when it comes to. Yeah, like. I don't like it when people do that with kids, you know, they go like, oh, I just want some, some people like, they want something to be theirs.

They want something to love them. And and then the kid doesn't do that and they. And then you get like parents who guilt their kids. Why don't you. Why don't you send your mom? Why are we going? I can't believe you know I wanted a son who? I'd be proud of him. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing. Yeah I think genuinely and I know it's not perfect but I think a kid. should be something where you go like I have so much love to give that man. I just need another human being to pull this into. I just have too much love. I just got to pull this love. and pull this love and pull this love and pull this love out. So I'm neither for nor against kids.

The only thing I know is I have never met a person who regrets having children. Oh, you haven't never. Genuinely. I've never, I have, but I've met many people who regret when they had a kid. Oh, and I've met many people who regret who they had the kid with. But I've. never met somebody who regrets the kid themselves. Now I'm sure there are outliers. I'm sure I've met people who got with somebody. abusive, alcoholic, you name it, in every shape, in every way.

But they will go, but this child, I've met people who had a child and it's. they're struggling financially and their life has really been hard. And their family disowned them because of who they had the kid with. And maybe the person left, whatever it is. They will still go. But this child, oh man, this child, the person they had it with, they might regret the circumstances, they might regret too young, too busy to this, to this, to that. So in that world, in that way, I just think to myself, I would love to be able. to give somebody the greatest gift, which is not just being chosen,

but which is being intentional. That's that's all I would want, you know, want the kid if they ask me like, hey, why am I here? All I know, because I just, I had excess love to give. And so that's that's why you here, you know what I mean? I just wanted somebody to love. I think you two were both make great fathers. and I think this is why she tricks people. Just. No, wait, wait wait, wait. I think you make make great fathers. And maybe one of the sad things about the world is that. I have friends that are like, childfree by choice.

Yeah, they'd make the most brilliant mothers or and fathers. And it's often the people that are making the real calculus. who've done that deep spiritual work, who've, like, experienced ego death, who make the decision not to be parents, who would make brilliant parents. I agree with you. But I the end of day, I think. I don't see I came to a point where I don't see my children as possessions. Maybe this is very Christian mentality. I'm like, you know that a gift from God, God has given me.

them to kind of guide in this world and uncover who they're supposed to be, but they're not just mine. So I don't think you have to be have children yourself. biologically to parent, to have. And I feel like if we had a more expansive view of parenting, that the children around us are our collective responsibility. Yeah. This is the journey. No, it's it's then it's like. It's like, do you want biological children that live in your house? Yeah, that's the question. But then it's just like you can have children via other means. And then because the don't.

my kids aren't my possessions, I'm just their custodians. I'm here to like, yeah, guide them. My dream is and. I will also caveat this because I don't want to fall. into a Josh Johnson here, but like Michael Jackson messed it up. I'll start with that because my dream was always. as I was always like I always wanted to create spaces in my house. that would be great for kids that weren't mine, because I thought it would be fun when my friend's kids come over. Yeah, they go like, oh, Uncle Trevor's house, and he's got those video games and you get a card machine.

And I'm like, yeah, this is great for them. You know what I mean? I like the fact. Yeah. And people go like but you don't have kids. I'm like yes but there will be children in my life. And I think it is cool. that I can facilitate this for them in some way shape or form. Yeah. But now if you are a grown man with no kids who has a kids basement of things. Yeah. So yeah. No problems. Yeah, yeah. But I, I will say though, one thing, last thing that I think could be helpful. and this is maybe going to make you. take back what you said about me being a good dad.

Maybe it's possible, but this is, this is, you know, in a co-parenting situation, especially a situation. where kind of like you said, Trevor, people are like, it shouldn't have been this person or something like that. I think that one, one like sort of olive branch, one thing that you could do is be like, all right, look, let's be honest with each other as like mom and dad. Let's be honest with each other. You don't really want to be here, right? But you could help me out every time you are here. It's going to be like. a big celebration to be like, wow, dad's here, blah blah, right?

But because I'm with the kids almost all the time, you have to tell the kids, hey, if you act up, if you disrespect your mom in any way, I. I can't come in the house. There's just something I don't know psychologically. It's like it's like I would, I wish I could be there but you were mean to your mom. Damn. Josh. Oh dang I don't, don't get me. And then I know now do that. You know what. You know I wouldn't do this because I would want to be there. But I'm saying if you already know.

this person, that Debbie, that I would be there anyway. Yeah, that's at least game the system a little bit. Be like, be like, have to move now. You were so mean. Don't go. Oh, gosh. Oh, man. Can you imagine the stress of kids having the therapy? My dad didn't come because of me. I didn't do it. Yeah, but this was fun. Okay. Christiana. Congratulations. Thank you. Congrats on a third healthy child. This is. Can I say that's the only thing I like? I, you know. Yeah. I don't take for granted the health of a mother. The health of a black mother. By the way, it's no joke. Yo.

So I'm happy that your baby's healthy. I'm happy that you are healthy. We're here. Make it more people. And we still. This is still making the podcast. Yeah. My. My favorite thing I learned when I was in Bhutan from a monk was he taught me. He said, he said one of the hardest things to learn in life. is that there will always be storms, but you will never live a full life. unless you realize when you are between storms.

So he says, like, the greatest joy in life. is just learning to know when you are between storms. Because when you're in a storm, you're in a storm. But when you're not in a storm and you don't realize you're. not in the storm, then you're not enjoying the fact that you're not in the storm. And so I'm excited because now with Christiana we're no longer in the storm. She's not pregnant for a while. And so we get to enjoy that for a minute. For a while. She's not going to be pregnant again. You know what. I will take it as it comes. And if you get pregnant again we will celebrate it.

But for now, we will enjoy this. This is fun. Yeah. What now with Trevor Noah. is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jody Avirgan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackel. Clare Slaughter is our producer. Music mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Thank you so much for listening.

Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now.