Bertie Gregory: Saving the Animals (Even the Ones That Are Bullies)

in in uh in history there have been. these mass extinction events and we're. now in one the when the rate of. extinction goes up incredibly high the. sort of this big purge and I think with. with humans um we often talk about. wanting to save the world when actually. in the long term world the planet it's. going to be just fine it's just whether. or not we exist or whether we exist on a. place that's actually, you know, nice to.

be. We're not just sort of surviving. >> I I think that's where the groups that. do these things have done really well. >> They have sort of participated in making. us think of it as save the world, >> which then arrogantly puts us at the. center of it again in the wrong way. You. know, it's like like h do you want to. save the world? And it's like, all. right, world, if you need me, I'll save. you. [laughter] And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, my friend. No. Do you. want to be alive?

[music]. This [music] is What now with Trevor. Noah. [music]. >> Oh man. >> All right. So now I can ask you the. question. So where where are you coming. from? Uh, Mexico. >> All right. What were you doing in.

Mexico? >> Uh, so I was filming for a a new project. for for Disney Plus, which that one is. under NDA, so I I won't be allowed to. tell that one. That one's a secret. >> About cartels. >> You have the most like wholesome NDAs of. anybody I know, by the way. Like other. people who have NDAs is like, "Yeah, know the drug cartel. Yeah, the. [laughter] settlement. This whole. thing." And then with Bertie, it's like, "I have an NDA." Oh, why Bertie? It. involves penguins. [laughter]. >> It involves penguins and. >> penguin secrets. Yeah, penguins. Whales. and and cheetahs and just cute little.

animals and I can't tell you their. stories. Um, so, uh, first of all, welcome. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for coming. Um, just. to give people a bit of context, even. Eugene, everyone. >> like Bertie is one of my favorite. explorers in the world. >> You've been excited the whole day. >> I genuinely have. I've been excited for. a long time. >> because when I first met Bertie, I met I. met him at like a conference type thing. and it was a room full of CEOs.

>> You know, these are cold, heartless. human beings who. >> Hold on there, LUIGI. [laughter]. >> That was nice. That was very nice. >> Um, yeah, it was cold. Like I'm talking. about like cold calculated. Show me the. the KPIs and the you know what I mean? And the the return on invest ROIs and. TLA, all of those things. All of those. things. And then Bertie steps up on. stage. >> and he goes, I'm I'm going to play you a.

little video. And all the other videos. have been like growth, numbers, expansion. >> And then Bertie comes up and he's like, allow me to play you a video. And it's. like cua cua. It's like animals. And you. see people in the room. >> start going onto their phones to check. the stock market real quick. [laughter]. And then 10 seconds in, everyone's. phones go down. >> Yeah. >> And I think the first one you played for. us might have been the whales or it. might like the first one I saw of yours.

And let me tell you something, I cannot tell you. that I've had more experiences where. I've felt like I've been transported to. a completely different world. >> than when I've watched the films that. this man makes. Even snippets of them. transform you to another world, make you. think of animals completely differently. In fact, I I would how would you. >> The best thing is it is our world and I.

think that's the coolest thing is that. >> maybe that's why you make it. So, how. would you describe what you do? Like do. you think of yourself an explorer, documentarian? What would you say you. you do? I think my job is to get people. excited about the natural world and. aware of some of the challenges it faces. and I think most importantly understand. that looking after wildlife isn't just. something that's like a nice thing to do. cuz like penguins are cute. >> Yeah. >> We need it for so many things we rely on.

and if nature is not healthy we're not. healthy. >> Um so it's I guess trying to dispel the. myth that Yeah. sort of, you know, looking after nature is at odds with. enterprise and all the things that you. were listening. >> Yeah. The money side of thing. So, okay, do me a favor. Actually, >> play me any like an old video, anything. that you have just like cuz. >> Well, let's let's we started with. whales. Oh, let me find Wales. >> Yeah. >> So, like you know how like like the the. best video on your phone is probably.

>> Hey yay. [laughter] Hey, my man. He. don't know my life. [laughter]. two words. >> Okay. Tucked in. [laughter]. >> DLOA. >> All right. All right. So, what is this? >> Animal reproductive systems. Really. quick. [laughter] What is this? >> Okay. So, so what you're looking at. here, this is a a gathering of uh of. whales in Antarctica.

>> And what was the occasion? >> Each one of a big party. Uh each one of. those whales uh is 25 m long. So what's. that? >> Oh, we use meters. >> Yeah, me. Just say let everyone else. figure it out for themselves. >> Very long. About double the length of a. greyhound bus. That's a nice thing about. it. Yeah. Yeah. >> So every time you see this little. fountain, the blow hole. >> So yeah, each one Yeah, these are fin. whales. They're the second largest whale. in the world. And we went down to. Antarctica. Spent a lot of time rolling. around on a boat feeling very sick. Uh.

but we ultimately managed to film the. the largest gathering of fin whales ever. recorded. There were 300 of them. together. And um this was not only an. amazing thing to to witness cuz it's. just loads of massive whales, but it's. one of the kind of greatest conservation. success stories of our time because. these whales were hunted to the brink of. extinction during the whaling era and. and now they're making this incredible. comeback. And. >> yeah, that's exciting. Not just because.

yeah like penguins are keeping whales. are awesome but because of so many other. reasons. You know the whales in. Antarctica that's not just a great thing. they're coming back for Antarctica but. you know new science is telling us that. whales are really good at capturing. carbon through a couple different. processes. And so if we want to you know. fight climate change save the world yes. we should plant loads of trees cuz. they're good at capturing carbon but we. also need to help the whales come back. >> Wait wait wait. I need you to explain. this. Whales capture carbon. >> right? So, couple different processes.

The first reason that whales are really. good at capturing carbon is because they. go around their whole life eating food, eating carbon essentially, and then when. they die, they sink to the bottom of the. ocean and some of them get eaten at the. surface, but a lot of their bodies, it. traps that carbon deep down in the. bottom of the ocean. >> I never thought of where whales die, >> right? Yeah. They sink whale fall. >> No, but I never thought of I don't know. why I never thought of like where. >> where they go. Whales. Yeah. >> You've probably never seen a full. episode of my 600 lb life.

>> I'm so sorry. >> All right. You're good. Should we just. move on? >> I'm so. >> So, but [laughter] the second process. which is much more interesting is uh. this thing called the whale pump. Yes. >> Okay. So, let me let me let me try and. break. [laughter]. [laughter]. >> Okay. >> Activate worst part of Eugene's brain. activate worst part of Eugene's brain. >> That has nothing to do with. reproduction. >> Okay. >> Okay. So,

>> in the ocean, >> yeah, >> in the deep, you have lots of uh cold. nutrientrich water. Okay. There's a lot. of nutrients in the deep. Okay. Got it. >> Part of the problem is that at the the. surface, uh the place where the light. hits, uh it's called the photic zone. So, the light hits lots of microscopic. plants in the water column near the. surface. the light's hitting them, but. they they lack some really important. nutrients in order to grow. Okay? >> So, they have light from the sun, but. but they need these key nutrients. So, what the whales do is that they eat at.

depth and then they have to come up to. the surface to breathe, >> right? >> And when they're at the surface, they. can't poop when they're under pressure. at depth. They have to come up to the. surface and that's where they poop. So. they have been feeding in the deep. eating all those those key nutrients. that is missing in the surface. They. then swim to the surface breathe take a. big poop and they fertilize that surface. layer. >> So it kicks off the food chain. >> the photon zone. >> the in the photo zone. Exactly. So so. actually you'd think okay if the whales.

come back they're going to eat all of. the the krill but actually it's it's. kind of the opposite. It's like the. krill. It's it's like this paradox in. that. >> the more whales there are, the more. krill that they eat, the more they're. coming up to the surface and fertilizing. the surface layer that creates more. phytolanton, the little microscopic. plants. The krill eat the phytolanton. >> So there's more whales and it just goes. on and on and on. So it's this amazing. runaway train. >> It's amazing. >> And I could have explained that in much. fewer and much better, but you get the.

idea. >> No, it you see it can't be better. So. this this is this is what I think this. is what I think makes it exciting is one. you you're like really passionate about. it but two you connect the dots between. these worlds that don't seem connected. in in any way shape or form like for. instance the significance of the whales. is something that I think most people. miss out the significance of most. animals to be honest with you know what. I mean. >> a lot of the like nature documentaries. that I watched as a kid they were just. about an animal.

in isolation in a Okay. Mhm. >> This lion is trying to hunt and it's. going to go and get this zebra. That's. the story. >> in a far away place. The end. >> Yeah, that was it. That was it. Well, for me it wasn't a far away place. It. was like next door. But [laughter] it's. true though. It's like Yeah. This is. what they're doing. >> It's true. He grew up in the middle of. the Senetti. >> No. Hey, you know what I'm talking. about. How far were Lions from you? >> Very close. >> Exactly. So my point I'm not saying like. like next door, but you relative. It. wasn't like another world for us. It was.

like Yeah. Oh, that's what's happening. there. But but but but what your work. does is it's it tells that story, but. then it goes into the deeper layers that. connect us to these animals and then how. the environment is connected to them and. how the environment connects to us and. then how it plays back like why why was. it significant that those 300 whales. were meeting? >> Yeah. >> And what and you were capturing that. What was the significance of that. encounter? >> I think the key thing was that you know. during the whaling era whales as I said. were hunted to the brink of extinction. And I remember I visited this island in.

the South Atlantic called South Georgia. And that was sort of the epicenter for. southern ocean whaling. So that was. where a lot of the whaling ships were. were based. And that's where they. brought a lot of the the whales they. hunted in Antarctica back to to process. the blubber and you know all that stuff. >> And I remember reading the logs from the. the whalers when they were there. Ships. >> Exactly. And they would talk about there. being so many whales in these bays that. they were hunting in that you could have. walked across their backs just like.

mind-boggling numbers of whales. And. that got me think I found that really. depressing and that like oh I'll like. >> that's all gone like I'll never get to. see that. But then however many decades. on, you know, the world came together. and protected Wales in the 70s and now, you know, what's that? 50, 60 years on. from that ban, the whales are starting. to make a comeback. And of course, they're they're not close even close to. what their original numbers were. the. idea that you can now go to Antarctica. and see these, you know, biblically.

large gatherings of whales. You know, I. go around the world and I realize I'm. I'm I'm super fortunate to see animals. doing amazing things, but everywhere I. go, the the guide, the scientist, the. local person, they always say, "What. you've seen in this on this expedition. you've just done is amazing, but you. should have seen how much more amazing. it was 10, 20, 30 years ago.". >> Sad. But in Antarctica with the whales, >> yeah, >> seeing that gathering of 300 whales, like no one's seen that for over a. hundred years. Like it hasn't been that. good for more than 100 years.

[clears throat]. >> And isn't that so cool? Like the world. is so full of doom and gloom. >> that. we can get it right. Like and when we. do, wildlife comes back on this like. mind-boggling scale. And not only is it. cool to look at, but it helps us as. humans. >> So wait, is that why whales turned into. [ __ ]. break that down for me. >> So, I mean, like, you know, we've been. reading all these stories and seeing. these things of I think it's the orcas. or the kill killer whales off the Yeah. Just like going, [clears throat] "By the. way, why are they called killer whales?

Is because. >> it's not because they kill us, right?". >> I I think it's actually from the the the. translation, it's sort of been. mistransated. It's actually whale. killers. So, some killer whales hunt. whales and so they're the whale killers. >> Oh, damn. So, they're not killer. They. are they're killers of whales, >> but I mean. >> they're killing. >> Technically, >> but everything is killing technically. >> Dolphins don't. >> They kill fish. What do you mean? >> They don't kill [clears throat] SM. >> But I'm glad you're here. We're going to. have every argument Eugene and I have. about animals. You're going to see. But. the other thing is.

>> shave chimpanzees. We'll save that for. later. >> And the killer whales are actually the. largest dolphin. They're a big dolphin. Well, they are a tooththed whale. The. adonttotites is the Latin fancy word. >> Everything I believed about anything is. just going. >> But anyway, coming back to your [ __ ]. What I'm saying is like, do we know why. they're attacking boats and why this is. happening around the world? >> Yeah. So, there's a couple different. theories. The first thing I'd say that. it's not happening around the world. It's happening in one place. It's one. one pod. >> Um, I would say. >> So, it's a gang. >> Yeah. It's one It's one family. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. [screaming].

>> So, there's a couple different theories. The first thing to say is if you. actually watch most of the videos, >> Yeah. the the these killer whales are just. swimming up to the boats and being very. curious and sort of bumping them and. it's not attacking. They're just being. curious. However, there are some that. they're actually sinking the boats by, you know, headbutting them. Yeah, I mean. they are I guess attacking. >> Do we know enough about the whales to. know if like to your point attacking not. could they be like playing a prank on. us? >> Okay, so a couple theories. One that is.

is quite interesting is that uh the kill. whales there um some of them hunt blue. fin tuna. >> Yeah. And the ch the they have basically. learned that when they hear uh certain. boat noises and fishing boats, they're. like, "Oh, dinner bell. Why would I. chase one of the fastest fish in the sea. when some dude over there has just. caught a bunch on a hook and take out, you know, easy easy meal?" So they came. over and and the the fisherman in the. past, I'm sure it still goes on, shoot. at them. And so it you could see how the.

steps would would create whereby okay, you know, one gets shot by shot in the. face, it gets angry, it rams a boat, it. sinks and goes, "Huh, this is a thing. you can highly intelligent creatures. They're also highly intelligent." So it. could be that that's not true. Uh and. and actually it's just that one time. they, you know, accidentally bumped a. boat and it sank and they went, "Well, that was entertaining, so. >> let's let's do that some more." I I I. think the idea that it's like they're. like killer whales trying to attack and. kill people is just ridiculous.

>> So So this brings up another question. that I've always had and that is can. animals be [ __ ]. Like when you when you go and you you. track animals and you you watch them and. you are animals just being animals or do. you see some animals where you're like, "Oh no, that one is being an asshole.". >> Uh I mean I guess uh. yeah, I guess so. I mean. skunks are asking why would you say. that? >> Oh, they're just defending themselves.

from. >> from from people and big things. [laughter] by with Yeah, that thing. >> Thank you. >> No, but why would you think it's I I'll. tell you I'll tell you a story and and. maybe you can demystify this as well. You heard about So, one of the stories. where I started thinking the there's a. possibility that animals could be. [ __ ] was [laughter]. >> there was a there was there was a couple. there was a couple that was No, there. was a couple that was hiking in. somewhere I think in the US. It was. like, you know, off on one of those. mountain trails, blah blah blah, and um. they got attacked by a bear, right? So.

they came across a bear. >> and then, you know, it was that whole. thing like play dead, whatever. So they. like tried to play dead, then the bear. was like, >> "It never [clears throat] worked in the. revenants.". >> Yeah. Then the bear was like, "Not cool, guys. Not cool." And then the bear. started like mauling them, whatever. So. the they tell the story. So the the. husband was like, "All right, go tell. the wife like run. I'll fight the bear.". >> Yeah. >> And then Yeah. And then the the wife. ran. Then the husband's like, "Wow." And. then you can't fight a bear. You can. just like distract, I guess, whatever. >> Entertain it.

>> You can entertain it. You can receive. and entertain. [laughter]. Yes. You can receive the punishment and. you can entertain the bear. >> And this happens. At some point, he's. basically knocked unconscious. The bear. stops and is like, "Wait, where did that. lady go?" Then the [laughter] bear runs. off, attacks the woman, m her ms her, then when she's also like sort of like. passed out, then goes back to the guy, then like goes back and forth, and then. luckily they survived, but you know,

like the bear like mold them. But I. remember going like that bear might be. an [ __ ] or is there something with. this? >> No, let's break that one down. So when. you see in the news an a wild animal has. attacked Yeah. a human. >> Yeah. the vast vast majority of the time it is. because the human has done something. wrong. So they, you know, they have got. in between a mother and its cubs. They. have backed an animal into a corner. They have misread an animal's body. language. They have done the wrong. thing. So the first thing I'd say is.

it's very easy to kind of pin it on the. animal and go, "Oh, the animal attacked. the human." Let's just clarify. There. are a very small number of cases whereby. it was wrong place, wrong time. Yeah. >> And what I would say to sort of I guess. humor your thing of are some animals. [ __ ] like animals have personalities. and uh some are incredibly intelligent. and and they do like have bad days. >> Okay. Okay. I like this. >> So So you can meet an elephant for.

example. in the morning and it's it's very polite. and does its thing and you're there and. it's there and happy days. And then this. afternoon, you know, it might have. >> broke up with his girlfriend. >> Well, yeah. Maybe he had his maybe he. had his ass kicked by a bigger elephant. or [laughter] or whatever. And then and. then it's a completely different animal. >> Now it's a single elephant [laughter]. >> with a huge memory. >> You you you know you laugh about this, but like I remember going on a game. drive and a friend of mine is a game.

ranger and he was telling me about how. elephants display many of the the. similar characteristics that we do in. our society. And one of them is if a. group of young male elephants don't have. like an older father figure elephant, >> they just get up to mischief. >> They they destroy trees. They go like. hunt rhinos. They just like kill rhino. They like do. And then they had to bring. in an older male elephant. >> And then there was just order. And the. older male was like. >> stepfather. Yeah. Basically stepfather.

And he was like, "You don't be doing. that [ __ ] in this house, boy. Me and. your mom. Me and your mom be trying by. your actions, boy. [laughter]. >> But you Yeah, you need they need like. the wise old dude cuz you know elephants. are famed as being this incredible uh. matriarchal society where you the female. le herds. >> and we very often don't really talk. about the social systems involved with. the males. It's just this big bull that. comes in all horny one day and has has. his way and then and then goes off and. does male elephant. >> because he goes off by himself most of. the time, right? Well, they also the.

males have these bachelor herds and and. you're exactly right that that yeah, if. you get these groups of young bulls, they're often the ones that are causing. all the mischief. You know, crop raiding. and all sorts. [laughter]. >> You can see the cogs turning, can't you? Desperately worrying for an inuendo by. themselves [laughter] in the bush. >> You had me you had me at hello. >> So, what do they do? But but coming back. to whether animals are [ __ ] I mean. again this is a very anthropomorphic. viewpoint, but like some uh you know.

I've seen male dolphins go around in. these male groups and they'll just go up. to like a young male dolphin and do very. naughty things to it and you're like was. that really necessary? But they've got. this incredibly complex social system. And I think trying to compare ours, if. you look at their social systems through. our lens, it's very easy to go, well, you're being an [ __ ] But. >> I I have often thought this. I've often. thought to myself, like, you know, like. people will say things about dolphins. They'll be like, oh, dolphins sexually. assault and dolphins do all these.

things. That's what people will say. >> People No, I mean I Yeah. >> Hey, why did you defend him, [ __ ]. >> You've got to defend me, Bertie. This is. THIS IS OTHERWISE [laughter] HE WAS A A. CREEP WITHOUT A FAMILY. BUT THEN BUT then I wonder to your point. to your point if you are observing. something from your point of view and. you don't have the full context you. don't you don't know what's happening. right so like if if animals were to see. us engaging in SNM they would also go. back and report and be like yo the. humans man. >> absolutely. >> I just watched this movie Fifty Shades.

of Gray it's terrible it's terrible what. they're doing to each other you you. wouldn't so. >> maybe that that's that that's like an. interesting place to to delve into with. your work. >> how do you discern between like the. animal world and what the animals are. experiencing. >> and how we perceive what the animals are. experiencing and what's going on in. their world. >> Yeah, it's it's an interesting thing to. think about because I guess one thing is. nature documentarians, you know, we're. often accused of anthropomorphizing.

things, but. >> our job is to connect people with the. natural world. So. >> to to a certain extent, you have to sort. of make comparisons to our world to sort. of get people. >> so we feel connected. underdog, you know, whoever. I think the. other thing is, you know, when we're. trying to get close to an animal without. disturbing it, you know, we want to film. natural behavior. So, we want to make. sure the animal either doesn't know that. we're there or that it is it knows we're. there and it's kind of accepting of our. presence. And a big part of that is. being able to read animal body language.

And just like we humans have a set of. uh, you know, body languages, lots of. animals do. I mean, we talked about. crocodiles just before we started. recording. they have, you know, very. little body language. Their resting. [ __ ] face is very similar to their I. love you face. So, let's park those. But. in the case of say sharks or or wolves, they're they're a great one cuz, you. know, they're very closely related to, you know, our pet dogs. So, we're very. good at I think in naturally. interpreting wild wolf body language.

But, you know, when we walk into a bar. and we want to figure out like where to. sit, uh, you look around and. subconsciously you're analyzing. everyone's behavior and, you know, if. someone's, you know, bright red in the. face and and clenched fist or whatever, stay away from them. And then there's. the smiley guy in the corner or. whatever. I'm going to go sit next to. him. sharks, uh, leopard seals, lions, they all have a set of of of body. languages, you know, of cues, and it's. our job to interpret those those cues so. that we can uh, you know, film them so.

that we're safe and they're safe. Uh, and also try and interpret what they're. going to do next. Uh, and that's what I. love is that I found when I was starting. out, I was crawling around. I I grew up. in Reading, uh, near London, and it. wasn't a particularly wild place. live near some farmer's fields. I used. to go into the farmer's fields and kind. of try and sneak up on deer and badgers. and kingishes and whatever. And everyone. thought I was weird. I was like, you. know, 13, 14 when you should be, I don't. know, trying to talk to girls or.

something. Um, and I I found that I. because I was starting to sort of by. accident learn how to sneak up on these. animals, I I had my eyes open to this. incredible world, all these dramas going. on the whole time that everyone just. walks past and has no idea. So it's, you. know, it's not as far as sort of Dr. Doodle or being able to talk to the. animals, but you sort of have like this. this ability to interpret animal. behavior that most people don't have. And so you get this secret window into a.

this other world. >> So when you're out there, would you say you have an ability to. disappear into their world? Like is is. there because I've always wondered this. about nature documentaries is I'm like. >> I've seen sometimes people just like lie. in the same place forever. Sometimes you. leave a camera behind. Sometimes you. how real slash untouched is a nature. documentary when you're making it, how. how much influence are you having over. it? How much you know like so like when. the animal sees you or doesn't see you. or can you do something with your body.

language to to let a lion know like. we're cool. I'm just here to film you. killing stuff. Uh, so what's really. amazing about filming things like lions, sort of, I guess, a a safari setup where. you're in a vehicle, is that we benefit. from the fact that um, some very smart. people have been habituating lions and. wild dogs and cheetahs and all those. savannah animals to a vehicle. >> And so they are completely aware that. the vehicle's there. You know, they can. see it, they can smell it, they can hear. it. But because it has been in their.

landscape. for their entire life and their mother's. life and their grandmother's life, you. are just part of the landscape. So. someone has done a bunch of hard work. that we're then benefiting from. Often. we go to places where the animals are, you know, have never seen people before. And so a big part of the shoot is not. filming. It's either hiding from the. animal, figuring out how to get close. and and hide or habituating the animal. to our to our presence so that it knows.

we're there and is accepting of that. I. mean, in the case of underwater filming, for example, it, you know, on land. often, if you're hiding from the animal, you can be in a little tent and you can. be a couple hundred meters away with a. really powerful zoom lens. Underwater, you're limited by the visibility of the. water. So if the water, well, you're not doing any hiding. Like. the animals are going to know that. you're there. So you need to figure out, okay, how do I behave so that the animal. is relaxed with me? I mean, one of my.

favorite animals to film is the leopard. seal. They're these I mean, they look. like dragons. Uh, and they live in. Antarctica and they can be absolutely. enormous and they have a very similar. skull to a grizzly bear. So they're just. this amazing top predator. Uh, well, not. top predator. killer whale can eat them. because killer whales are. >> because killer whales kill. >> Yeah, they're badass. >> We got this. >> So, um yeah. So, so with them, I I. mentioned that all animals have have. personalities and they have different. days. Uh it's it's sort of like a lucky. dip when you get in the water with a.

leopard seal. You see this leopard seal. and you're like, "Okay, I'm going to get. in and quickly I'm going to learn. whether this is a leopard seal that is. friendly, is not pleased to see me." You. know, you just never know and you learn. very quickly. And sometimes you get out. immediately cuz you're like, "Okay, that. one didn't like me here." And some start. very shy and then in the space of an. hour you can sort of kind of flirt with. them and and get like sort of pretend. you're not interested in them. Sort of. they know where you're looking. So you. kind of turn away, [laughter].

face your back and they come sneak up on. you and then you go boo. Um, and and it it's amazing that you can. have this interaction with an animal. that, you know, may never have seen a. human [clears throat] being before, but. you can read its body language. And even. cooler, it can read yours. You're not. just a a weird alien human. It's like, oh, no. It knows where you're looking. It knows whether you're they often. mirror your your state. So, it's really. important that you're really chill. So, they're really chill. If you get in the. water, I've been in the water taken. other people down there that that have,

you know, never seen a leopard seal. before. Um, and I take them in the water. and they're really on edge and I hate it. because the leopard seal is really on. edge. >> Oh wow. >> It can and then that person you get them. out the water and it's just me and the. leopard seal. Suddenly leopard seal is a. different animal. It's like, oh yeah, you sketchy Steve is out the water now. Um, we're we're cool. You can't trust. sketchy Steve. Um, >> so I think I think I think I've always. I've been a sketchy Steve. Hey, you been. >> I've been a I'm still a sketchy ste. No, because you know I I can't.

>> I can't just find myself. So I'm I'm. always stuck in the loop. People be like. just relax. Then I'm like I would be. relaxed if there wasn't this wild animal. here. Then they're like yes but you. relax. >> And then the thing is I then remember. videos I've seen of people who were too. relaxed and didn't notice a shift in. something. >> and then all of a sudden life is not. going well for them. Do you know what I. mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. So I I I don't know like are. you comfortable around animals like. fully. >> party animals.

a bit sketchy? [laughter]. >> Never trust a party animal. >> Never trust a party animal. But I've. I've always been I love animals but from. a distance. But I've always been. fascinated by animals um that res that. come close to resembling human beings. So, gorillas, chimpanzees, and I've. often wondered cuz I've I've once seen. this video of chimpanzees hunting. monkeys. >> Mhm. >> That for me was the scariest thing ever. I've never Have you ever had an. experience like that? I've seen. >> those. I've never seen that. Yeah.

There's a a very famous troop um uh. Yeah, it's the I think it's called the. Ingogo Troop. And yeah, there's I'm not. sure how big it is now, but at a at a. time it was this enormous troop of. chimpanzees. There was like 50 or 60. chimps living together. And yeah, they'd. they'd go and set very clever traps to. eat colibus monkeys. >> Wait, wait, what? See, those are. [ __ ] Surely they're [ __ ]. >> Well, I mean, why why why does eating. monkeys make why does that make. >> Okay. Why are why are all the other. monkeys not doing this?

>> Uh, >> why are the all the other chimpanzees. not doing it is my is my question. rather. >> Well, so it's really interesting because. they they don't do it all the time. It's. it's it's [clears throat]. sort of okay. Yes, it's a very rich. source of protein that they do, but you. know, most of the time they're eating. fruits and things. And I think it's. actually it's a huge sort of um it's. almost a ceremonial thing for them. Like. they get so amped and excited that it's. a a troop bonding exercise. It's not. just we're going to go out and get some. food. >> Designated roles. There's some who go. and chase, shake down the tree, and some. who wait for the monkey to fall down.

Then also when the monkey falls down and. gets killed, there's also pieces that. get divided up. >> And who gets who gets what? It's, you. know, they're giving out favors. Why are. you like that? When we go out to like. restaurants and stuff, >> then you're [clears throat] part of the. then you're like you. Eugene will be. like, Trevor, you shake the table and. [laughter] then Ryan's going to order. and then I'm going to eat. I'm going to. eat the first piece. We got I've always. wondered where you got that from. >> Okay. Okay. [laughter]. >> Don't go anywhere cuz we got [music].

more what now after this. >> This episode is brought to you by our. friends at Survey Monkey. You know, Eugene, I don't know if you've ever. thought of starting a business, but. every time I think about people who. start businesses, I'm like, man, you. need a specific kind of bravery. And by. bravery, I mean terrifying uncertainty. Because think about it right now, everywhere in the world, there are. people making massive lifealtering. decisions based entirely on a vibe, just. a feeling in their gut.

>> That was me when joining the podcast. >> You know what I mean? >> But what if you actually knew the truth. when you started a business? What if you. knew your direct reports weren't just. nodding along, but actually had thoughts. that they were too polite to tell you? >> Or what if you knew that your best. customers were already halfway out the. door to a competitor? Because let's face. it, we like to say follow your heart, but in business, ignorance is a very. expensive hobby. The good news, Eugene, is that Survey Monkey takes the fear out. of asking and the doubt out of deciding. It's the difference between walking into. a meeting with a hunch and walking in.

with 500 validated opinions, which. mathematically is better for your blood. pressure. The truth might hurt for a. second, but it's cheaper than being. wrong. So, let's get you a survey and. some actual answers. Sign up for an. annual plan at surveymonkey.com/wattnow. and use the code whatnow for 2 months. free. That's two months free with code. whatnow at surveymonkey.com/wattnow. You have any questions? Is it too late. for me to run a survey about who doesn't. like you in the podcast?

>> What do you mean who doesn't like you? Like like me? >> Like you? Yes, specifically the person. in front of me. >> I think surveys are supposed to be. anonymous so that people's feelings. don't get hurt. >> But I did type anonymous there. >> Well, I mean now I'll know that you. typed it because do do you have a. problem with the working? >> I haven't sent it. >> But you want to make a survey about. >> I haven't sent it [music] yet. >> You can just use the code what now to. get two months free when you do it. still have too much to complain about. you. I feel like this [music] got. personal.

[music]. Do you do you ever. do you ever find like human world just. becomes like blleh because of the world. you live in? >> Oh yeah, >> absolutely. >> I I have uh what I I describe as post. postshoot blues. >> Yeah. So, I I come home from, you know, Antarctica or whatever, and I always it. it's usually the first couple days when.

I'm sort of readjusting to. >> a different a different world. Well, I. mean, for me, what I struggle with is my. normal life is. >> expeditions and being far away. Um, and. so yeah, I'll be like stood in a in a. supermarket deciding what what kind of. salad I want to buy and I'm looking. around being like, what about penguins and icebergs? Can. can I just go back to doing that? It. just seems so sort of. >> insignificant uh.

>> in comparison to the. >> in comparison to like this whole world. and the significance and there's these. dramas going on. Um, so yeah, it's it's. really tricky to make that adjustment. >> What's what's the what's the worst. experience you had? Like, you know, when. you you're on a shoot, you're trying to. do something, things did not go. according to plan, an animal or like was. there ever a moment like that? I'm sure. in all the years cuz how long have you. been doing it now? >> Uh, just over 10 years. >> Yeah. So, I mean, surely in that time. something has happened to you where. you've gone.

>> Well, the most dangerous animal on every. single shoot is humans. Boo. Yeah. Every single time the, you. know, the times that I have been, you. know, in danger is because of a human. that it's either directly from that. human or the human has misinterpreted. some animal body language and and has. put us in a in a dangerous situation. >> Like you've been attacked by humans on a. shoot somewhere. >> Uh that that that has Yeah, that has. that has happened. >> Damn.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that was quite scary. >> What what happened? >> Uh we [clears throat] were in the. Arctic. Um and um. we were in a very remote camp and one of. the people we were working with uh we. didn't realize was a drug addict and um. not really sure what he was addicted to. but we were basically uh because of a. storm our supply boat was was cut off. So every few days we were meant to be. getting supplies with food and and fuel. and all kinds of things. What we didn't. realize is that that boat was also.

delivering drugs his drugs. Um, and. while he was on the drugs, he was. actually pretty functional. Um, and he. didn't get those drugs and started to. Yeah. goamn scary. >> Uh, and. >> you This is in the Antarctic. >> It was in the Arctic. >> In the Arctic. >> Yeah. Um, >> so you're like you're this there's. nowhere to go. There's no. >> This seems like you know you know those. movies this this seems like a perfect. thriller horror movie scenario where. you'd be like it's unrealistic. >> Explorers the movie starts they off to.

see the animals. you know, the whole. thing. And then they're exploring. They're exploring the animals. Then. they're like, "Oh, there's a storm. There's a storm. We're hunkered down. Oh, the boats are not coming in, Bertie. The boats are not. We'll be fine. Oh, supplies running low." And then all of a. sudden, someone's just like, "Ah, yeah.". And and it and it started out sort of, >> oh, that was a weird thing that he just. said. And then it it kind of escalated. and he started making threats. Uh and. then he he he snapped and and jumped on. um yeah one of our team and yeah was.

trying to uh strangle her and um yeah. another one of the team managed to get. her off and I get him off and uh we were. in polar bear country so we you know we. carry shotguns so there's just a lot of. you know I remember at one point looking. at this situation with yeah him trying. to get to her and at my feet there was a. a a shotgun for the polar bears and a a. a paddle for a stand up paddle board. And I was like, "Okay,

what am I going to pick here?" Um, and. uh then I was like, I'm just going to. use my words. Uh, and yeah, it all got. very, very scary. Um, and I ended up. well, we we ended up managing to. distract him, get her uh away. Um, he. had I won't won't name her. um get her. away and um sort of separate the two of. them. And then my job was basically to. distract him long enough for the rest of. the team to make a plan to get find a.

way to get evacuated from this remote. place. So I we the reason we were out. and away from the camp was we were. trying to collect fresh water. So we. need to go up the river. So I yeah, we. basically both went up this river into. the. >> just the two of you. Uh we were with. another guy as well and yeah we were. distracting him and sort of yeah trying. to keep him. >> occupied and he would what was most. scary about this was he would flip-flop. between um being this crazy really scary.

person and then being absolutely lovely. with not really any recollection of what. had happened. And it was sort of Jack. and Hide. >> and um I remember we'd filled up the. water jugs, you know, I'd managed to. stall him for about an hour and I was on. the stand up paddle board that we were. using to to transport the water jugs and. he was walking on the the river bank. next to me and I was paddling along just. like yeah trying to keep him calm and I. remember he suddenly got really on edge.

and was rumaging around in his pockets. and I was like oh god what's he got in. his pocket? Is it a, you know, a gun, a. knife? Like, what is it? He looked. really on edge. All of a sudden, he he. pulls out his phone and he's like, "Oh, I I just set up a a Tik Tok account. I'm. I'm going to take a video of you on the. stand up paddle board um for my TikTok. Is that okay?" I was like, "This is a. very strange situation to be in. >> Sketchy Steve.". >> Um Yeah. [laughter] Sketchy Steve. Yeah.

And uh by the time we got back to camp. um yeah the rest of the team had managed. to make a plan that uh there was a. research plane in the area and they were. able to actually land on the the beach. that we were on. Um and yeah, we we got. our our team out and we actually made. the decision to take. >> the the guy with us because at the point. that the plane arrived, he was in the. good mood and we were like we don't want. to leave him here. Um, >> did you guys warn the pilot at least?

>> Cuz this is really like a movie. >> Cuz now on the plane it's like, "Oh man, next thing you know, it's Bane.". >> Yeah. And And then Yeah. So we we sort. of chat to him and then we got got him. Yeah. got him back to the town and uh. Yeah. And then went went our separate. ways. And. >> it makes when you tell a story like. that, it makes me wonder like. h how did we you know you because you. you work in this world now. How did we. get to the place where. I think I'm I'm I'm safe in saying that. more people in the world are terrified.

by animals than by like people. >> 100%. >> Whereas I am completely the opposite. that. >> Yeah. But how did but how did we get. there? Like where do these myths come. from? Where do they I mean I clearly we. spoke one about one earlier where I was. talking about like the the the killer. whales and you're like oh they're. attacking the and everyone thinks this. I think a lot of people think this and. then you're like no one area. >> well classic classic example is human. fear of wolves okay so um you know. there's lots of movies you Hollywood.

movies about wolves eating eating people. and all this stuff but okay in North. America. how often do you think someone gets. killed by by a wolf. >> true maybe once a year. >> one time a year. >> I'm going to say. >> so sharks is is between five and 10 a. year globally Okay. >> Then I'm going to say with wolves I'm. going to say. >> attacked 20 times a year. >> Actually fa fatal fatal fatal attacks. Oh no no no. Fatal attacks I'm going to. say seven per year. Yeah. Seven. Eugene.

>> I'll say one. >> Wow. >> Yeah. One attack a year. >> What if I told you that in in recent. history so in the last you know few. hundred years that that number is. actually more like two total. >> What do you mean in in how many years? Not over, not average. >> No, no, no, no, no. Total since. >> No, come on, Bertie. Come on now. You're. telling me we've made all these movies. about a thing that happened two times. >> And in both those times, if you actually. read about them, it is not conclusive.

that the wolf actually did it. >> Ah. >> So then you ask the question, okay, why? Well, who done it? Yeah. But why why do. we have why does our society have this. incredible hatred? you know, Little Red. Riding Hood, the big bad wolf. Why why. as a child are we taught that wolves are. so dangerous when at the same time we. keep their closest living relative in. our homes? >> So, I have a theory for this, >> okay? >> But I I don't know if it's right or it's. wrong. When I when I read through like old.

historical accounts of like explorers. and travelers, people who are going. around the world hunting, one of the. things I've learned is whether they were. colonizers or whether they were just. like hunters, one of the most powerful tools they used. to justify what they were doing was. turning the the subject of their action. >> into like a dangerous villain. >> Yeah. >> You get what I'm saying? And so it's a. lot easier, I think, to have people not.

judge you for killing wolves and and and. you know what I mean, taking their their. furs if you tell them that you're. protecting them. You you have hit the. nail on the head. Yeah, >> that is that is exactly why our our you. know society has this hatred towards. wolves because you know livestock. farming is a is a huge part of our. society and wolves do sometimes kill. livestock. >> and it is much easier to justify the.

killing of a wolf if everyone hates. them. Okay, >> just like you know with sharks, it's. only very recently that everyone's sort. of waking up to the fact that sharks. might actually be really important to. healthy oceans and we need healthy. oceans. >> Yeah. >> But prior to that, you know, with with. Jaws and our, you know, fear of sharks, no one really cares that sharks were. getting getting killed. Um so, you know, why would you want to, you know, protect. something that you're terrified of? >> What do you think people don't get about.

conservation? cuz. you've said it a few times, you know, it's like not just because they're cute, not just because they're nice. Like when. I was growing up, that's all I watched. in in most nature documentaries. It was. sold as like this idea of like they. won't be here anymore. That's why we. need to protect them because they won't. be here anymore. And then it almost. seemed like it's the novelty that that. that justifies us protecting an animal. >> It's the right thing to do. >> Yeah. It was just like it's it's the. right thing to do. This is a cute animal. that you'll never get to see. That's why. you need to protect it. But But it is a.

bad argument. >> Yeah. Tell me more. Tell me more. >> Well, because I um Okay. So, nature. provides so many things that we need. from uh clean water, productive soils, the air we breathe, uh the regulating. our our climate, you know, we're we're. part of this incredible life support. system that's that's free. Uh and it. provides us with all these ecosystem. services that we completely take take. for granted. So um selfishly we should.

want to look after the natural world. because it's to protect ourselves. Um. you know if we can if we can look after. the environment and make sure that wild. systems are healthy we make them more. resilient. they they can then better protect us. from you know the effects of of climate. change or or you know whatever the the. thing may be. >> Even like disease is what I've learned. on some of these things. Okay, look at. all of the the big sort of pandemics.

that have happened. >> Most of them come from the mistreatment. of uh domestic animals or wild animals. or it's us being very naughty. Yeah. >> And unsurprisingly, bad things happen. when when you're naughty. >> Because I love nature documentaries, I. often often wonder to myself, aren't we. getting in the way of evolution? Because. sometimes you have those series where. they show you the prehistoric relative. of a certain creature, but because. conditions change, humans interfered, they invaded Satan spaces, the animals.

evolved to something else. Aren't we. right now standing in the way of. evolution of certain creatures because. we just want to conserve the way they. look now for our own selfish reasons. because we just like what this bird. looks like now, but the do bird, you. know, was something else and it became. something else and it became something. else because life and the climate and. the conditions around it changed. M yeah. it's an interesting perspective. I guess. what I would say is that evolution. happens on uh very slow time scales and. what is different about what we are.

doing now we are we are in you know in. uh in history there have been these mass. extinction events. >> and we're now in one the when the rate. of extinction goes up incredibly high. the sort of this big purge and I think. with with humans um we often talk about. wanting to save the world when actually. in the long term world the planet, it's. going to be just fine. It's just whether. or not we exist or whether we exist on a. place that's actually, you know,

>> nice to be. We're not just sort of. surviving. >> I I think that's where the groups that. do these things have done really well. They have sort of participated in making. us think of it as save the world, >> which then arrogantly puts us at the. center of it again in the wrong way. You. know, it's like like h do you want to. save the world? And it's like, "All. right, world. If you need me, I'll save. you." Then it's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, my friend. No. >> Do you want to be alive?" Do you get. what I'm saying? Do you want to be able.

to go outside and not have a summer that. is literally unlivable? >> Do you want to be able to grow food? Do. you not want an animal to come hunt your. dog? Cuz like that's the thing I think. is is so amazing when you watch these. documentaries and you go, "Oh, you know. why this animal is here like hunting. your dog or like catching your cat or?". It's because where it was supposed to. be, there's no more animals. There's no. more prey. >> Do you get what I'm saying? Like polar. bears I've seen are like coming further.

and further down now as the as the the. ice melts, right? They're just like. coming more into like brownland. territory, I think. Well, I mean, yes, they're spending more time, you know, many polar bears spend the, you know, part of the year on the sea ice on the. the ocean frozen and then in the. summertime when that ice melts, they. spend the time on land sort of hanging. out. And if they haven't managed to get. enough calories during that that. important time when they're on the ice, they need to go looking for stuff. And.

so yes they they will come into contact. with you know they'll they'll humans you. know they live in a very sort of inert. smellless environment and then you have. a human settlement suddenly that's like. ooh opportunity and they'll come into. that. So yeah, when when when we mess. with wild systems, that's when you get. more human wildlife conflict. But I. think kind of sort of taking one step. back, you talk about, you know, sa. saving the world and that idea. I think. one of the biggest communication.

failures in history is that we have le, you know, we've been led to believe that. um, you know, climate change is about. uh, it's just about temperature and and. carbon emissions, these kind of abstract. terms, right? So, so I can say, oh, 400. parts per million or, you know, it's. gonna go up by three degrees. Okay, I sort of get it, but that's. basically if you ask someone, you know, on the street that isn't a climate.

scientist, what's climate change about, they're going to tell you probably about. carbon dioxide and temperature. >> Yeah. >> But that's they're not actually the. problems. They are they are, you know, proxies for what the actual problem is. is that those two things when they go up. lead to the destruction of nature. >> Yeah. So I feel like rather than talking. about climate change and how we need to. fight that, we should just be talking. about the destruction of nature. >> because I feel I feel like everyone can. get on board with the fact that if you. cut down a really big old tree, that is.

a bad thing. Um and so. if if you also approach it in terms of. the giant climate change and it's such a. massive problem and requires so much. global cooperation in our you know. broken divided world it's very easy to. just throw your hands up and go well. >> nothing we can. >> what am I meant what am I meant to do as. an individual whereas if you talk about. the destruction of nature suddenly you. as an individual whether you're the CEO. of a huge company or a politician or.

just someone with a little apartment. down the road from here. You can do, you. know, okay, they're on different scales, but you can do your bit to make the. planet wilder and healthier. Whether. that be, you know, plant some plants in. your garden that are insect pollinator. friendly to help local bees or or, you. know, choose to protect a huge area of. ocean if you're a politician. Like, and. the the thing I love about that is that. it's actionable and you will see. quantifiable positive change. If you. plant a bunch of wild flowers in your.

garden, you will see a bunch of insects. coming to those that weren't there. before. And isn't that cool? You know, >> the fact that everyone can have an. impact even on like the tiniest. >> Exactly. We talked about those CEOs. They're interested in in ROIs. Well, there you go. Do a thing gets better. You know, that's the problem with with. um you know, yes, of course, we need to. look at our individual uh carbon. footprints or or or you know, uh. changing our diets to to you know, uh. consume uh less or no meat or you know,

all all these things you can do. It's. very hard to quantify the impact of. those those things. You know, if you. choose not to fly tomorrow, >> well, the the you know, the global. temperature isn't going to come down. because of your one action. You should. still think about doing it. Whereas when. it comes to rewing the planet like you. will see a quantifiable positive change. and it you know people don't like being. told to stop doing things. >> Oh that's true. >> But what about if you do a thing and. then it makes a better you know you know.

what I mean? I just think it's a much. more positive, proactive. >> It is actually, it is a proactive. >> But here's where I'm often conflicted. when it comes to conservationalists and. um nature documentary makers is for. example, you'd go to the Gorangoro. crater, shoot a bunch of animals, right? Put that out on television, people all. of a sudden are interested in going and. seeing these animals. Now all of a. sudden there's 50,000 Land Rovers there. disturbing the exact same thing that you. try to do. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a great it's a great. point. So, >> I'm really glad glad you point this up.

Brings us up. So, in yeah, in my new. show on Disney Plus, cheaters up close. We we filmed Cheetahs in the Serengeti. And. >> cuz cheetahs are going to be extinct, right? >> Cheetahs are. >> they're pretty much gone. >> Not doing well. >> Yeah. >> So, there's, you know, there's there's. less cheetahs in the wild than there are. lions. Uh less cheetahs in the wild than. there are rhinos. You know, it's it's. not good. Um, but for some reason I. think maybe because they're really. really fast, everyone thinks they're. okay. Yeah. Um [laughter].

but but the re. >> the metabolism. >> weight. >> would gain you a lot of enemies cuz. they're fast. They're okay. They do it. [laughter]. >> and and you know David Atenburgh said. said it summarized it really well that. we are we're we're loving these animals. to death. >> because where they are you know people. want to go see cheetahs and you know in. places where tourism is badly managed. they get surrounded by vehicles they. can't sneak up on their prey. they can't. see bigger predators coming for them and.

their cubs, the hyenas, the lions, which. is actually the biggest challenge that. that cheetahs face. And and so. >> what I would say to that is. wildlife tourism is an amazing thing if. managed correctly because it gives a. value to those animals alive. H. >> if you look in in in you know in many. places um where uh well as an example I.

did a did a show that came out on Disney. Plus a few months ago called Dolphins Up. Close uh in in the Azors uh islands. which are group of islands off Portugal. Exactly. In in the Atlantic and uh yeah. that community used to thrive on on. whaling. That was their big industry. And uh interviewed this amazing whaler. called Daniel. um he'd spent his life. whailing and and spotting whales. Um and. yeah, him and the community realized. actually people wanted to go see these.

whales and they are worth more alive. than dead. >> Um and so he now. >> more sustainable. >> Well, he's now spots the whales and. instead of calling a a whailing boat. onto them to harpoon them, he calls in a. boat full of tourists to go in and take. take pictures. Now, of course, there is. the potential for the that boat to be. disturbing, but if managed correctly, it's it's a much better thing because I. I feel like in an ideal world, okay, maybe you could say that, >> well, we should protect these places and. then and then leave them alone and keep.

all the all the people out. But, you. know, conservation is as much about the. animals as it is about the humans that. live in that place. And those animals, sadly, in our in our capitalist world, have to have an economic value um to. to incentivize protecting them. So, of. course, there's the intrinsic value of. looking after these animals. They're. cute. They're wonderful. It's the right. thing to do. But we need the yeah, the. exttrinsic value, which is which is the. the yeah, the economic one um to to make.

it, you know, ironically sustainable in. in the long term. It's the paradox of. everything these days. you if you don't. have an economic like have you seen how. um if they try like a program let's say. in Scandinavia I saw that you know they. were piloting a 4-day work week and. whatever people in the US were like. we'll never do that in many places like. this is stupid and then someone wrote a. paper about the economic benefits of it. and then all of a sudden companies were. like yeah we're going to try this we're. going to we're going to try this like oh. you'll actually get.

>> there was a financial incentive. >> but and look that is the world we live. in now you have to show the economic IC. something traffic doesn't get dealt with. until somebody shows a politician how. much a a city is losing because of that. traffic. >> I mean you can get very sad and cynical. about it but actually it's like well. let's just play the game by their rules. and and then and then we can all agree. >> Yeah. You just go like for every cheater. that dies this is how much money you're. losing in tourism. This is how much. money you will lose in this is how much. money you will lose. This is you know.

what I mean? So when it's really if you. find the right incentive. >> totally when when we were there with the. with the cheaters you know the reason. that that national park exists and isn't. just a giant cow farm or cow pasture is. because of the money being brought in. from each of the tourists that goes. there. Now we saw that in some places it. is badly managed. So, and actually a a. study came out that showed that cheetah. cub survival was much lower in places.

that had a lot of tourism. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. >> Badly managed tourism. So, this isn't. just like, oh, I feel like this is a bad. thing when that cheetah family gets. surrounded by cars. No, it's been. proven. So, therefore, it's really. important that that we, you know, do it. correctly. And so that is, you know, it's on the guide, but I think also it's. on us as people that go there and are. guests in these places to ask questions. because, you know, the the guides are. under huge [snorts] amounts of pressure. there. You know, um, safaris for various.

reasons have traditionally been uh. incredibly expensive and and so very. exclusive. Whereas now, you know, mass. tourism, cheaper tourism is becoming. possible. And it means that uh, you. know, just to make the economics of the. trip work, if you're selling it for. cheap, people will go on safari not for. a week, they will go for one day. >> Now, the guide, >> he he will get a really big tip if he. manages to find, you know, all five of.

the best animals. Right. So he's just. got to rip around and and and for some. reason now that we all have a phone and. not you know rather than bringing a a. normal camera. >> we now expect to get really close to. everything to get a good picture of it. So we we saw we we would follow these. cheaters uh from from a from a distance. and then over the radio you know we were. a filming car and they knew what we were. doing so they always ah filming car they. they're good at finding the cheaters. We. had the we had these amazing guides that.

would, you know, find stuff. >> All the vehicles would would come to us. and we've created this horrible problem. where now this cheetah family is is. surrounded by cars very close. >> and the cubs can't hear their mom's. call. >> Oh, all all that stuff. So we'd watch. and people would be they'd drive rather. than sitting, you know, 100 meters away, 50 m away like we would with our really. powerful technology. They would drive. all the way up and and so that the guide. got a tip, they they want to be in a. good position, they'd lean out and take. a picture on their phone of the cheetah. right there and and so actually, yes,

you could blame that on the guide. Okay, it's his, you know, he needs to sort of. >> feed his family. Well, yeah, but he he. needs to educate the tourists on, you. know, but actually I think it's equally. as much our responsibility to go, hang. on, >> I blame the phone companies. Why aren't. they making better cameras that can. zoom? Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But make more wildlife zooms. so that people can zoom in. We need. longer telephoto lenses. So get on it. phone companies. It's amazing how you. know we should also joke, but it's a. good point. >> You know what we should also do is you.

should start making like I don't know. how we'll do this ethically. We'll. figure it out. We make like scam. um nature documentaries where you just. tell people there's animal but there's. nothing there and you just go like ah. welcome to the jungles of Long Island. where we found and then you just just. just diffuse people. You know what I. mean? >> Oh, right. >> Some people are going to get bamboozled. You you don't have to put those out cuz. Disney won't buy those. But just put. them out online and it can just be like. >> spread the humans out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? and just like make a thing and be like,

"Guys, I found this place where you can. see cheaters for really cheap and then. just send them somewhere random. >> Spread them all out.". >> This is, you know what I mean? >> I think I think those. >> diffuse the thing. [laughter]. >> Those cameras work just fine. I've seen. them being used at Beyonce concerts. People are sitting way at the back at. the nose bleeds, but they're able to. zoom in. They do make it seem like they. all of a sudden when there's a cheetah, you need to get closer and closer and. closer. I think the other thing that. seems to be a disconnect I think. especially in our sort of. >> you know I think it used to be that when. you watched uh you know BBC Planet Earth.

documentaries that was kind of the only. sort of. >> well relatively yeah the only sort of. >> huge. uh amazing way to see a video of a whale. right whereas now we're just you know. you scroll through Instagram you're just. bombarded with everything so I think we. sort of normalized it and so now when. when lots of people do get to go to. these amazing wild places, which I think. is a great thing. Um, for all the, you. know, reasons we talked about, they sort. of forget that actually this is a wild. place and all these animals,

>> it's this isn't a zoo. It's not this. abstract world that's in your phone. Like, it's a real thing. And actions. that you take will decide whether or not. this animal lives or dies. Like, the. stakes are that high. And I I think it's. sort of reminding people to that that. that you you've got to have this this. respect. >> I think it might actually might sound. very trivial, but you are at Disney and. Disney has made a lot of cartoons. I. think animating and giving animals. personalities has sort of skewed the way.

people should look at animals and not. try to find out what the animals. personalities are like you're. explaining. But but I would argue in a. way though that that is sort of a. traditional sort of documentary approach. is look at the grandeur of this amazing. place and isn't it and whereas. >> cartoons. >> well or or even now I guess more recent. nature documentaries we do try and. personify the characters. >> Yeah, they're fully characters and and I. think it's probably gone too far. Um but. it is a way to sort of engage people and.

get people to fall in love rather than. just it being this [music] like. beautiful wallpaper. We'll be right back after the short. break. [music]. You know, Eugene, I don't know about. you, man, but sometimes planning a. romantic evening is one of the most. stressful things cuz there's that. specific type of performance art that. comes with a romantic night out. You. know, it's like you're sitting in a. restaurant and you realize you've just. paid a premium to have a room of. strangers watch you eat bread while you.

try and have a private conversation. It's exhausting. You know what I mean? It is. But I realized recently if you. want to skip the theater and the crowds, Whole Foods Market is the place to plan. the perfect indulgent and romantic. evening at home. Picture this. You see, you skip the. extra trip to the flower shop and. instead you explore the Whole Foods. Market floral department full of.

gorgeous quality flowers with large. blooms. Vibrant colors and strong stems, bunches, bouquets, and even vase. arrangements are available. Why stop. there? We can also skip the dinner. reservation, start our sizzling hot. evening in the kitchen. Just us. We. could serve a surf and turf made with. quality no antibiotic ever stakes plus. seafood that must be sustainable, wild. caught or responsibly farmed.

will then pair that dinner with a bottle. of wine from the incredibly indepth. Whole Foods Market selection. Say cheers. with a sparkling rosé or choose ready to. drink cocktails. [sighs]. [clears throat] Yeah. Must be 21 or. older. Please drink responsibly. Taste.

the love all month at Whole Foods. Market. By the way, that wasn't our. date. I just got carried away and then. your hand was there and then. >> I [music] totally understand. But you. know, like they say, there's no free. dinners clearly. >> No, you don't owe me anything. We didn't. even have the dinner. >> I'm 41. [music]. [music]. >> What do you think we could take from the. animals? I often wonder this. Like that. like that dolphin bachelor crew that. you're talking about. I knew we were.

going to suckle. >> Why do you choose bachelor instead of. >> good? [clears throat] That's what he. said. >> Oh, don't try that with me. Hey, buddy. Hey, buddy. I already have a rep sheet. with you. Don't add more things. unnecessarily. [laughter]. >> No, like like I. >> I remember seeing that and I I I found. myself wondering. I was like, are there. any things we could take from nature? Do. you ever see things where you're like, "Oh, yeah. This this could probably work. for us as humans. We we should be doing. this. This could be like a a way of. life. This could be a, you know what I. mean?

>> I don't know if this answers your. question, but it's just popped into my. mind that. wild animals lives are really, really. hard. >> Yeah. >> But they are really good at doing what. they do and that's how they thrive. >> And really hard. >> They're really hard. >> They're really good at what they do, >> right? They like they're they're they. really focus. So, what I take from that. is, okay, for whatever I do, I've got to.

do my best to get really, really good at. it. >> Oh, okay. I like this. >> And I'm not saying that. >> No, no. Specialize like really go into. go into something, get good at it. >> Yeah. Try and do your best to try and. become like a master of it because. that's how you that's how you I'm not. saying. >> Eugene, what would you say you a master. at if you to say one thing? [laughter]. >> You and you can't pick comedy. It has to. be something else. >> I'm going to ref it with you, my friend. [laughter]. >> And then and then actually I want to. show you a video to show you how hard.

some animals lives. >> No, show us what what what you got. Show. us what you got. >> Okay. >> You have the most wholesome f like. camera roll of any human being. I know. >> Any girl. >> like just any. >> Okay. So, this is a female uh puma. mountain lion or pum puma and she is. hunting a a guanako. Okay. which is like. a wildlife. >> She is so close.

>> She's got to be within 30 m now. [music] I think she's going to go. Yep. Here she goes. She's going. >> Who are you cheering for? >> He's got it. >> The llama. >> No, the mountain line. Really? >> Yeah. [music]. >> No. [music].

Go, Potaka. Go. [music]. Oh my god. What a fight. [music]. She's got it. She's got it. is still fighting. He's trying to bucker. off. >> So, my point is.

animals have really hard lives. >> Who wa But you can't just go and say my. point is after that. [laughter] There's. so many thoughts I had after that video. >> Eugene will ask his questions. [clears throat] and then I'm going to. ask my questions. >> Okay, break it down. >> First of all, mine's not really, it's a. question for society really. Mhm. >> Why don't we make that the experience. when we're getting like take out, >> you know? >> Imagine having to do they have to do. that once a week their whole life. >> And I'm saying this selfishly as. somebody who, you know, Yeah. Cuz like. sometimes I'm like, "Hey man, it's so.

easy to eat the foods that I'm eating. and then I'm just putting on weights and. I'm like, "Ah, man. I just wish it would. be great if I walked into a takeout. place and then immediately had to get. into. >> Can I get the the chef two piece? You. want four? FOUR PIECES. BRING OUT MORE. >> [laughter]. >> CAN I GET [laughter] FRIES? BRING. ANOTHER ONE. >> Get kicked in the face. [laughter].

>> I mean, it would be good for society. >> It's so unprofessional. >> It would be good for society. [laughter]. >> You know what I mean? And then at the. end of it when you're eating your fries. and then everyone's there bleeding and. stuff and they're like, "How the hell is. it here?" And it's dope. really really. good, >> but you you would you would eat less of. it. You know what I mean? Like that. animal looks like it's crazy in shape. >> How many times does that hunt have to. happen for that animal to survive? >> So that's a an individual called Paka.

So she's like. >> So for that puma to to survive, how many. times does Paka have to do that? >> So she had her and her two two cubs, she. has to take down a a guanakaco. Yeah. Sort of a wild big wild llama like that. Maybe every once every seven to 10 days. Yo, >> every single guy, >> every single guy struggle every. [laughter]. >> And what's what's crazy? [laughter]. >> The local bar as a guaka. What? It's been How long has it BEEN.

[laughter]. MAN LUBRICATE THE GUAKA? >> Oh my. [laughter]. >> We can relate to this. >> I love how you're also cheering for. SO, HOW DO YOU WAIT? HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHICH. ANIMAL to cheer for? >> Well, that's a tough one because, you. know, as as a wildlife camera person, we. are, you know, we we can, you know, never get involved and so, you know, it's important to not to try to we're I. guess we're normally told to not get.

emotionally involved. >> You were really involved. >> You were screaming. >> But no, but [laughter] I know what what. I mean by. >> I WAS VERY EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED. LIVES DON'T MATTER. [laughter]. [laughter]. >> I know sticking a leg out trying to trip. it up. >> You sounded like Joe Rogan IN UFC. [laughter]. >> LOOK AT HIM. [screaming]. SO WHAT I WAS GOING TO say if I was.

allowed to finish was we are normally. told to not get emotionally attached but. often when you spend all day every day. following an individual animal for you. know a month or two and you know the. stakes cuz you know it's cubs that it. has to feed. >> I I feel like often people want to uh. choose the side of the prey cuz that's. the thing being attacked. And I think. that's often because you know prey is. very cute. Um, but my point often is, well, if okay, if we're going to play by.

those rules and based on cuteness, baby. predators are usually the cutest. Like a. baby mountain lion. Oh my god, they're. so cute. Um, so yeah, I don't think. that's good logic, but that's sort of a. side side note there. Um, but my point. is with with Paka, her life is. incredibly hard, but she is so good at. doing that. She has mastered that. She's. like an Olympic athlete. >> Yeah, >> I really like that. >> Yeah, >> she's a single black mom. Yeah, that. fighting hard. My two CS and I'm going. I'm going in there. >> Two CS going in there.

>> doing it. >> Can I say like that also is a is a. valuable lesson for life though. >> is. >> don't be a single black mom. >> If I mean that one's the hardest thing. to be. >> Sure. If you are if you are going to or. rather if we lived in a world where we. were more able to see and spend time. with other people, we might have a. little more compassion for the situation. that they're in. Cuz think about it, >> this is a random puma and then just.

because you spent time observing her and. her life with her cubs, you now had a. vested interest in her survival. >> and success. >> Yeah. And I almost feel like. >> if we just had a little bit of that in. society, >> just think and. >> it's empathy, isn't it? >> Yeah. But but it's it's contact. And I. mean, we've talked about this, you know. You know, I'm a big believer in this is. part of why I love pickle ball and I. always tell you these things, but like. >> if you meet people and if you spend time. with them, >> you're just more likely to be concerned. about their well-being and who they are.

and how they are. And the further we are. from them, the less the less we're. likely to consider them and their. survival. But bring it back to the. wolves we talked about. If you actually. spend time with wolves in the wild, which I've been very lucky enough to. have done, >> you very quickly realize that they are. not these sort of mindless man-eating. killers. They have these amazing social. systems and they are so stoked to be. alive and in a pack and they they love. oh my god, they love each other so much.

It is so lovely. You know when like if. you have a dog and and you come home and. the dog they do that but there's like 10. of them and there's no humans and. they're just having a great party with. each other and sniffing each other and. having an awful. >> that's pickle ball. [laughter] Yeah. >> Is it is it true that um is it true that. one of the greatest threats to these. wild systems is how we expanding. farming? Uh, I mean in the case of. wolves, yeah, I mean conflict with. livestock. But but I guess it comes back.

to that empathy of if we just if we. don't if if we don't spend time with. them documenting their lives, showing. how amazing and and awesome that they. are, it's but they're just they're not. individuals. They're just wolves in a. far away place. It's very easy for. someone to go along and be shooting them. and go, "Ah, terrible evil wolves." It's. again, it's that. >> it's a double-edged sword, right? You. need you need that that that view into. their world. >> So what were your questions about the. video?

[sighs]. That video. that video was heartbreaking for for. why? I mean. when the person shooting the video has. clearly chosen a side [laughter]. and. as the llama you hearing you're fighting.

for your life. [laughter] There's a guy. there in the north face jacket. [laughter]. shouting for your death while your own. llama kids are watching you. [laughter]. most of it. >> It's kind of fair. Yeah, [laughter] it's. kind of fair. >> I guess I guess if you would like the. context, I can make a sh I can make a. shameless plug. Uh [laughter] if you. watch the whole episode, it's part of a. series called Animals Up Close on Disney.

Plus. You can see you can meet Paka. You. can see her cubs. You can see the stakes. that the challenges that she faces and. why hunting guanako is is very. challenging. And far more often the. guanako wins. >> I mean the guanako wins. That's stamping. often far more often. Most of the time. the pummeras fail. They get bucked off. and have terrible. >> How many pumas are there? And how many. guanakas are there? >> There's a lot more guanakas. >> That's what I'm assuming. Yo, did you. see how the thing was stamping on it? >> Yeah. They've got the crazy neck dip. that they do like Yeah. I mean, what a.

strategy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like you want to jump on my back. and crawl on my neck, I'm going to neck. dip you. >> You know what? Actually, you brought up. farming and I think farming has done a. lot for conservation as well. I was. watching this one piece about um. sturgeon and how wild sturgeon had. almost become a. >> What is sturgeon as in a fish? >> The fish that they use for caviar. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> So, they they they I'm not familiar with. fish. Oh, yes. Prehistoric looking fish. Amazing animal. Gigantic. >> That's the one with the face like that. Okay. You didn't What face was this now?

>> What face was this? >> Was it wrong? >> No. >> Was it right? I don't know cuz I don't. I'm asking. >> I'm looking at it mean here. >> Was that the one? >> You've seen wild animals before. What is. this? Do it again. Is it close? >> Are you sure? >> Yeah. >> It's fine. Anyway, >> I'm just trying to clarify which fish. >> Keep keep going. Sorry, sturgeon. Carry. on. [laughter]. >> Sounds like a prestigious person. Sturgeon. >> So, >> every time he says the word sturgeon. from now, we're going to do an. [laughter] sturgeon.

So what they've realized is sturgeon was. almost extin [laughter]. don't do that was was almost extinct. because obviously they were being killed. for their eggs but it actually takes. very long for a sturgeon to reach full. maturity so it can bear eggs can bear. the eggs. >> Yes. So they were getting extinct. So in. the EU they said no more wild sturgeon. So most of the caviar that you see now. comes from farmed. >> Oh as in fish farming. >> Fish farming. Yes. >> Right. So it's done a lot obviously for.

for nature conservation. They do it with. lots of count as nature conservation. >> Let's back it up. >> Why? Well, I would say that uh I I don't. know specifically a huge amount about. the particular example with sturgeon. If. you look at other systems, uh, for. example, farm salmon or or even, uh, tuna, um, which is which is ranched, um, it's often used as a way to say, "Oh, this is much more sustainable because.

we're we're not affecting wild stocks. We're raising them in captivity." But. actually, the reality is that it's. complete and utter BS. >> Um, >> okay, you take tuna for example. So um. blue fin tuna uh previously let's take. the Mediterranean for example they would. go on this uh they go on this crazy. migration uh in the Atlantic and then. they some of them come into the. Mediterranean Sea to to to breed. >> and so they would go past uh certain.

European countries a couple times a year. on their way into the Mediterranean on. their way out. >> So these countries would get two chances. to fish them each year when they swam. past. >> on their way in and on the way out. >> And what would happen was they would uh. fish a huge amount during that period. they would sell them uh mostly to the. the uh Japanese sushi market. Okay. >> Uh and it's classic supply and demand. You sell lots of tuna uh you flood the. market, the price drops. >> So what they realized is instead of. fishing them and killing them, uh what.

if they ranched them? So they would go. catch a whole bunch, they would put them. in these huge nets and they would keep. them alive in these nets throughout the. year. >> so then they could sell them when the. price was right. Mhm. >> Um and it was often said, "Oh, well, you. know, this takes pressure off of hunting. more in in, you know, from the wild.". >> I mean, that seems right. >> Well, there's two flaws to this. One is. if you're catching a huge huge amount. >> Mhm. >> Well, you're still removing them from.

the wild. You're not you're not actually. farming those. But the bigger issue is, okay, I visited one tuna ranch. Okay. And they had 24 nets. In each net they. had 1,000 bluefin tuna. And these blue. finfin tuna can be. >> things are massive. >> They can be two two to 300 kilos these. fish. They're enormous. Uh incred. Yeah. So a thousand fish in one net. >> Guess how much food you have to feed. 1,000 bluefin tuna per day.

>> Oh. [ __ ]. >> Tons and tons. I'm sure. >> six to 10 tons of fish per net. This one. ranch had 24 nets. That means they are. feeding that farm up to 240 tons of prey. fish per day. >> That has to come from somewhere. >> Where does that come from? It comes from. anywhere in the ocean around the world. So once a week this enormous ship would. turn up with herring from Norway, uh.

anchovies from the coast of Chile, uh. sardines from the coast of South Africa, wherever it was cheap. Mhm. >> And these fish would get poured into. these nets. We we were catching fish to. feed fish. >> This sort of, >> you know, the worst thing about. >> So, we're just hoovering up the this. makes sense. >> The worst thing about learning. >> Mhm. >> is that it can make you very depressed. >> Yeah. 100%. >> No, genuinely. Because I think there's a.

lot of people out there, myself. included, who would go like, "Oh, this. is much better.". >> Yeah. because you know you're farming it. and now and then now you're telling me. oh yeah the second system effect of. doing this. >> has far more detrimental effects on the. food supply and on the ecosystem than we. thought previously. So then so then okay. then what what do we do? I mean that. that is part of the reason I've always. liked your work as well is every time. I've seen you every time I've watched. your videos you'll always offer a.

solution. You'll always you don't just. go like man that's all folks it sucks. you know what are. >> because there's enough depressing stuff. in the world. >> Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the success. stories that you've come across or. you've been a part of where you go oh. look this is this is like an an. achievable difference we can make it's. not big. It's not monumental. It's not. like shutting down industries. It's not. what what is what are some of the. >> Totally. Well I mean a really staying. with the you know theme of the ocean. The really amazing thing about the ocean. is that if you give it the chance,

>> it it comes back on an unbelievable. scale, the speed. So, uh, a really. awesome conservation success story. Uh, there's a place called Raja Aat, uh, in. Indonesia is this amazing archipelago. It looks like something out of a story. book. It's all these little islands. covered in green jungle. And around. those islands underwater is some of the. most amazing coral reef. But in many. places in in Raja Aat uh you dive on. those places and it's just a rubble. field um because they've been dynamite.

fished. So that's when uh fishermen. would come along, they would chuck a a. stick of dynamite into the water, it. goes bang, all the fish come up to the. surface, you know, dead, stunned, h you. get a quick easy catch. But of course, the fragile coral reef is left. destroyed. >> That coral reef is the basis of the. whole ecosystem. And so once you've. trashed that bit of reef, well it's it's. gone. you have to move to the next. place. Now, if you're doing that on a. very small scale, okay, maybe that could. work, but there's lots of people and.

it's Yeah. So, it was trashed. So, about. 20 years ago in a place called Mizul, the community came together and they. were backed by pretty significant. private philanthropy. They came together. and they said enough is enough. You. know, the the the ecosystem is is dying. and as a fishing community, we are. really really struggling. So they. basically just set up a no take zone. Uh. you're not allowed to fish in it. Many. of the fishermen became um kind of. rangers. You know, some of them became. dive guides. And uh 20 years on um uh.

they you know, they've made this this. place has made an extraordinary. comeback. And in that time, the biomass, that's the weight of living things at. some of the the key locations, it's gone. up by 600%. And it's one of the only. places on Earth where the biodiversity, so it's the number of different species, is actually increasing. >> And and they're also replanting the the. coral reef. And and so. the coolest thing about that is that,

okay, nature's thriving. Humans are directly thriving because, you know, they're being paid to be. rangers and dive guides and all that. stuff. But the best part is that the. marine life doesn't understand the. borders that we draw. Yeah. >> So, it moves outside of those protected. areas into the take zone and so the. local fishing community. >> is actually doing really well. >> Yeah, >> it it's I mean it's it's so trivial to. say,

>> but it really is. >> it really feels like everything you say. is just us not having. a wide enough aperture to actually. understand time and the benefits. [clears throat] of things. You have to. make a small short-term sacrifice. >> Yes. >> For a long-term massive gain. >> Yeah. >> Not just economic. >> You know, it's it's all become. extractive now. That's that's the issue. is like we live in a world where. companies want to extract as much as.

possible from everyone all the time. As. much as possible. >> And now now now. >> And so growth has no longer been. something. And you see you see that it's. it's it's not one way or the other. By. the way, There are many companies out. there, especially like companies that. haven't gone public where they they make. a [ __ ] ton of money and the product is. still good and the customer is still. served and they and they treat their c. their um workers well. >> because they get to define their own.

growth. Do you know what I mean? They. don't have to just just like vacuum up. shareholder value everything. Yeah. Shareholder value like where more more. more. It's like yeah you it can be more. sustainably but sustainably. >> I do wonder if in. x period of time 10 20 years we'll look. back on this time. you know we now we look back on you know. certain things that we've done in the. past that we were like those people were. really bad. They they that was really.

bad. And you know, when we look at, you. know, things like slavery um or or. colonization, and I wonder if in the. future we're going to look back on. certain things that we're doing to the. environment now and go, >> "Oh, yeah. >> What what what do you mean you you did. that for shareholder? What do you mean. shareholder value?" Like, >> what what's going on there? >> I think you you're assuming we'll still. all be around for that cuz. this is the weird thing, you know. Um,

the other day I started like reading. about extinction level events. >> One thing that's most terrifying about. them is how they it's just like a. tipping point. Do. >> you know? It's just like one thing that. tips and then all of a sudden. >> it unravels. >> Yeah. It just unravels. It's like, oh, you lost this much forest or at a. certain time this changed in the. atmosphere and then all of a sudden all. the trees died and then that caused a. thing and this caused. But it's just. like it's just a tipping point. And then the world has to go to sleep.

for a few hundred years or thousand. years. And then. >> this got very dark and and depressing. And so what I would say is that. uh yes, we obviously have big. challenges, but there are so many good. news conservation success stories. >> Now you're going to see why I love. Bertie. >> There are so many. And not not to say. that you we should, you know, bury our. heads in the sand and ignore the rest of. the world la. But if we focus on when we've got it. right rather than going naughty naughty. this is what you did wrong.

>> I feel like it's yeah it comes back to. that thing of uh yeah if you're told not. to do something. >> you will do it. >> you're going to do it whereas if you're. told you can do. >> inspire and celebrate the wins. >> So what's the thing that's that's. inspired you most recently where you've. gone like oh this what are you working. on right now actually like you always. every time I see you you're working on. something more crazy and more. interesting and it it just goes in the. most random directions. Uh, so I'm. working on a couple different projects. uh with with Disney Plus. It's really. exciting. Uh, continuing my uplose.

series. Uh, so in each episode we we go. and. >> Do animals ever recognize you by the. way? [laughter]. >> That's funny. Like, aren't you that guy? >> No, I'm being serious. >> Was cheering when my mom [laughter]. >> Are you the Paka guy? >> No, what I mean is I mean this genuinely. [laughter]. because you go back to some places, I'm. assuming. Mhm. >> I wonder if you've ever encountered any. animal that has in some way shown you a. like a familiar like cuz cuz you you.

know the animals is what I'm saying. >> Have you ever had that encounter where. an animal has sort of like gone like oh. [ __ ] obviously not going like birdies. that. >> well so in the case of Paka. So, the. reason that I know her is that when she. was a cub, when she was 6 months old, um, in 2017, I filmed her for a a BBC. David Atenburgh series called Seven. Worlds. And I was filming her mother, Serento, and Serento was was fighting to protect.

her cubs, you know, and feed her cubs. and raise her cubs. And one of those. cubs was Paka. She was 6 months old. She. was this little fluffy. >> This is the context you should have. given us earlier. We thought she was out. here cheering for a murderer. You've. known her since she was a child. >> So then I went back Yeah. four or five. years later and now she has not only. survived, which is a big deal for for. puma cubs cuz they don't have great. survival rates, but she was now this p. her mother had passed away seento and. now she'd taken over her mother's. territory and was raising her own her. own cubs. >> Now it felt like going back to see this.

long lost friend. >> and and obviously she was just like, >> "I don't know you. >> Who who are you?". >> I think if you do it long enough, it'll. happen. Um, I genuinely do. Here's. here's what And maybe it's the types of. animals. Don't get me wrong. I'm not. expecting a crocodile to be your friend, but I do think like an elephant, maybe a. whale. I'm willing to we'll we'll we'll. have this conversation. Why not a. crocodile? >> Okay. >> I don't think crocodiles rule like that. I recently I was recently on a project. that um hopefully uh Disney will be okay. with me talking about it because it's.

>> not the main focus of the show. But I. did meet a manta ray. >> Okay. >> Wow. like. >> huge giant oceanic manta ray. 5 m plus. wingspan. >> 5 m. Oh yeah. I don't I didn't think. they could get that big. >> Moana's grandmother did. >> Yeah, >> that was beautiful imagery. Eugene, I. hate it when you do that to me, [clears throat]. >> but I love it. >> Manta rays have uh relative to their. body size the the largest brain of any. fish. They're actually incredibly.

intelligent and they pass the mirror. test so they they can recognize. themselves which is pretty mindboggling. >> Um, but this particular manta ray, she. came over to us on our first dive at. this particular location and she was. really friendly. Um, and she sort of. parked over our heads and I won't tell. you what what she did cuz that will be. giving the game away as the episode's. about. We'll park that down the road. Um, but what was amazing was that for.

the the rest of the 5 days that we were. at this location, every single time we. got in the water, she would come and. find us. >> See, this is what I was asking. >> Now, the question is, okay, they are. technically capable of differentiating. between humans. >> Uhhuh. So, was she just a massive. attention seeker and went to go and be. really [laughter] nice to everyone or. was there something special about us and. she wanted to come hang out? >> I think we know the answer. >> I hope it's the latter, but.

>> I think it's we know the she had a. Disney Plus subscription. She was like, that's Bertie and then she was like, you. know, let me go say what's up. >> She's Moana is on Disney. >> Oh, yeah. Moana's also on Look at this. It's a collaboration crossation we've. done. Huh. This is what they call. synergy in the corporate world. Synergy, Eugene, >> you they'll love you and you must go to. corporate one day. [laughter]. >> You got to go and do it. But this has. been amazing, man. Thank I'm I'm really. excited for like everything. I I just. like, >> you know, cuz I I I'll tell you why.

>> Because you've helped me and I think. millions of other people who've watched. the shows understand the link between. the worlds. And not in like a cheesy. way, just genuine in like a, you know, like ROI kind of way. You've really. helped people go like, "Oh, wow. All. right. We need that that that animal. We. need those we need all of these animals. We need these creatures to survive so. that we can get our food so that we can. live our lives so that we can you know. what I mean?". >> Yeah. No, I love I love the fact that. you uh emphasize that because you know,

humans always think they can go. elsewhere. >> Like if things don't work out in this. reef, they can go somewhere else. Planet. plan and then planet B, >> this guy. >> But [laughter]. >> sorry, carry on. >> But now you've made it possible. >> or for me to even imagine that we must. coexist with the animals that we've. displaced. We don't have to be away from. Dangorongo Crater to be close to the. animals or to love them even, you know, we can be there. We can't love them to. death. But I think you've done a lot, man. And I hadn't known much about you. until we spoke today. And I see your.

passion and I see why my friend here. loves you so much. >> Oh, well, thanks very much for having. me, guys. good to chat and getting people to. >> care about animals in the natural world. And I would encourage people wherever. they live, even if it's in the middle of. a city, even if it's like here in New. York, >> there are this city is home to the the. fastest animal on Earth, Paragan Falcon, that will be hunting off the skyscrapers. not far from this very room. So, it. doesn't matter where you live. >> I've always wondered if I was really. seeing those. >> It doesn't matter where you live, there. is amazing wildlife.

>> I was like, that looks like a falcon. Then I was like, Trevor, it's a pigeon. Clearly, it's a pigeon. You can't just. see a falcon in New York City. >> Yeah, you can. >> But you can. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> Give us a tip for how to sneak up on. animals as you depart like like in a in. a good way. Cuz when you said that, I. was like, I want to I want to get close. and like they what are the dos and. don'ts. >> Well, the most important thing is. knowing knowing your subject, knowing. knowing the animal and uh and and I. think just spending time spending time.

outside. I know that sounds kind of be. outside. rule, be outside, >> go look and and uh yeah, know knowing. the animal and you want to know as much. about it. Do as much homework as you can. about it, research about it. >> So, don't just like don't just like go. out learn on the job. >> No, no, learn on the job for sure. But. the reason that it's good to know things. or be with someone that knows things is. because one that means you've got a. greater chance of actually finding it in. the first place and understanding what. the heck it's doing when it's flying. around or doing whatever. But the other.

thing is it coming back to that loving. them to death. You make sure that you. can understand the cues that it gives. off when it's you know comfortable with. you being there uncomfortable so that we. make sure that when we're watching. animals it's on their terms and they are. this is this is exactly why I only go to. like a nightclub or a bar with Eugene. because then he can help me spot the. situations and then Eugene will be like. >> he's interpreting the wild. >> Yeah. Jean goes like, "Ah, don't say hi.

Calm down. Don't Don't make eye contact. with that guy.". >> Absolutely. >> Shake your hips here, Trevor. And then, you know, that's how. >> because before me, you used to just feed. on carcasses. [laughter]. >> An analogy. >> I made a terrible mistake engaging you. at all. Yo, [laughter]. >> it was really, really awesome. >> Thanks so much. No, man. But thank you. Thanks for thanks for indulging. This. was fun, man. >> Thanks. >> Oh, man. This is great.

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