Bernie Sanders: Who Owns America? Bernie Says the Quiet Part Out Loud

He served four terms as mayor of. Burlington, Vermont. Eight terms in the. US House, and was elected to the Senate. in 2006. This photo of a young Bernie. Sanders being arrested in 1963 on the. south side of Chicago in the midst of. the civil rights movement. >> I'm very proud of the fact that I'm the. longest serving independent in the. history of the United States. I caucus. with the Democrats and always have. >> Some people would be like, Bernie. Sanders is not a Democrat, but he's. speaking for the progressive wing of the. party right now. Billionaires should not. be able to buy elections. And by the.

way, that's not just a progressive. perspective. Conservatives understand. that, too. >> Bernie Sanders drawing crowds of tens of. thousands in his fullthroated fight. against oligarchy. >> Trying to help Democrats find their. footing among workingclass Americans and. reclaim power next November. [Music]. This is What now with Trevor Noah. [Music].

[Music]. >> Baz, >> take a look and see. My wife is gonna. yell at me for being totally disheveled. >> That's funny. >> I want to be half as good-looking as. Trevy. I don't want to dominate the. whole thing. >> They account for age. It's like golf. We. have a handicap. How long have you been. in town? >> Oh, about a half hour. >> Oh, wow. Okay. How long are you staying.

in town? >> Oh, about a day. >> Okay. And then. >> we're doing an event with Bumani. tomorrow night. >> Oh, that's exciting. Oh, that's really exciting. >> And presumably we're doing a parade in. the morning if it doesn't rain. So, we'll see. >> It said it was going to rain today and. then it didn't. So I I hope that's a. good sign. >> Good. >> I think like every day it's switching. around, you know. >> So you do these things what 5 days a. week? Uh. >> I try and do as many as I can when we. can, you know. So it depends on when. people are around when we can, you know.

>> Right. So you kind of enjoy this stuff. >> I love I love it because I I love that. we get to spend time. Yeah. >> You know. >> Well, that's the revolution. And it's. People are tired of seeing 7-second. sound bites. >> Exactly. >> And I'm amazed. I mean, podcasts have. exploded, haven't they? >> Yeah. So, I think it I think it's nice. for for a book, for a conversation, for. politics, funny enough, >> for anything. I mean, how the hell do. you understand anything in a few minutes. here? >> All good, all settled, all everything.

Then. >> we jump into it. Senator Bernie Sanders, welcome to the show. >> Great to be with you. >> Do do you take requests. that are going to be in New York just so. you can get back to New York? Not really. Uh, no. We, uh, have some. important engagements tomorrow. We're. going to be working to see that, uh, Mr. Mandani becomes the next mayor of this. great city. And we'll be working with. him tomorrow. >> That's exciting. That's actually really.

exciting. And I feel like it ties into. everything that you're here to talk. about today because, you know, I was. reading through your new book that's. coming out. And I was I was reading. about your life and I was just thinking. to myself, you know, there's there's one. part of the book where you you make your. dedications and you dedicate the book to. your grandchildren. And there's another. part of the book where you talk about. the teachers that you've spoken to and. the struggles that they face in America. today. You know, just the cost of. living, the cost of teaching, the cost. of being. And as I was reading through. my notes and everything, I went, "Wow,

Bernie Sanders, 83 years old.". And I was looking for time markers in. and around what 83 means. And I was. like, "Social Security is 90 years old.". And I don't know why I felt like that. was that was a a partic particularly. significant thing because I felt like. you are somebody who has lived long. enough to see America through different. stages and through different phases. And. so maybe that's where I'd like to start. as we move through this journey getting. into the fight against oligarchy and and.

what you what you're trying to get. people on board with now. How far do you. think America is off from the promise. it's given to its people? >> Uh I think you have a president who is. way way off. Who is in my view the most dangerous. president in American history taking us. in the wrong direction in every area. On the other hand, I think you got a. whole lot of people uh who. would love to see a very very different.

America than we have today. So Trump is. what Trump is saying and this is I think. an important political point. He says. the system is broken. >> Yeah. >> And you know what he's right system is. broken. Problem is his solutions will. make a bad situation worse. And from a. political point of view, the Democrats. say, "Well, you know, we got to tinker. around the edges on this, do a little. bit over here, but basically we're doing. okay.". >> Yeah, that's wrong.

>> So, I think you have millions of people. who understand that in the richest. country in the history of the world, we should be doing a hell of a lot. better than we are doing today. You. know, it's interesting you you just said. that because I I was talking to the team. and you know, my friend and I were. walking chatting about this episode and. one of the things that struck us was. exactly what you said is Trump always. identifies that there is a problem. Right. His solutions often times seem.

absurd and they are, but he identifies. that there is a problem. >> Exactly. Right. And not only him, if you. talk to his people in education, they. say the system is broken. You talk to. people in who work on healthcare, they. say the system is broken. So they tap. the anger in the frustration. People. say, "Yeah, the system is broken." Yeah. >> Then you hear their solutions. Half the. time they're totally crazy and will make. the situation worse. But it is. important. And what I try to do in the.

book is to lay it on the table. What the. hell is going on in America right now? But you tell me, is the system working? Why. >> why do you think you're comfortable. doing that when when so many of your, you know, fellow senators and Congress. people aren't? Because I I think of AOC, I don't know if you ever saw um this was. right after the election. AOC did a. poll. I think it was on Instagram, >> and she said, "How many of you voted for. me and voted for Donald Trump?" Which. seemed crazy. >> No, it did not seem crazy. >> And a lot of people said, "I voted for. you and I voted for Donald Trump." And.

the main thing they said was, "I voted. for both of you because although you're. very different, you both acknowledge. that this thing doesn't work.". >> That's exactly right. And the people are. right. Look, I mean, I think one of the. things I try to do in the book. is to raise issues that you're not going. to see on corporate media and you're. certainly not going to hear discussed. very much in that US House or US Senate. Politicians don't talk about it. And. that is okay. Who has the wealth and who.

has the power? Simple question, right? >> Yeah. >> You ever talk about it? We ever hear. much discussion about it? We don't. >> But the reality is that today in. America, and we spend a lot of time. talking about this in the book, >> is we have more income and wealth. inequality than we've ever had in the. history of the United States. Okay. Now, you tell me if it's not crazy. I think. it's crazy. that you have one guy, Elon Musk, owning. more wealth than the bottom 52% of. American households. Bottom 52%.

>> Yes. Is that insane? I think it is. But. here's another point. Who determines. what we should get outraged about? All. right. So, some kid with a gun walks. into a shop down here and shoots. somebody, we're all outraged, and we. should be. Okay. Crime is a serious. problem. But if the heads of the fossil fuel. industry lie to us day after day and are. jeopardizing the well-being of billions. of people on this planet, should we get.

outraged or should we give them an award. for being great humanitarians? In other. words, you understand what I'm saying? They control the culture, what we're. supposed to respond to. So to me, you. lay it right on the table. It is insane. >> that one person owns more wealth than. the bottom 52%. Top 1%. owns more wealth than the bottom 93%. CEOs make 350 times what their workers. make. So you just put that on the table. Should we be discussing that day in and. day out? I think we should. Some people.

say we're going after the wrong people, though. You know, I've I've heard so. many people when I have these. conversations with them, they go, "Why. are you getting angry that Elon made. money? I mean, Elon's made electric cars. and Elon has made this fantastic space. internet and Elon has made so much money. for the American public and Elon hires. people and Elon has factories and why. you hating on him, Bernie, why you. hating on the guy who's bringing. ingenuity and he's bringing money like. like why he's making good that is. exactly right and millions of people. share that view.

>> So, should we be quote unquote punishing. Elon? No. But should we be having a living in a. society which allows so few to have so. much wealth and so much power? And it. gets to a whole other issue which we try. to raise in in the book. >> Mhm. >> All right. Everybody wants to make. money, right? You want to make money, I. want to make everybody wants to live. comfortably. Elon Musk wants to live. comfortably. Is enough enough? When is. enough enough? How much do you need? And.

how far are you willing to go to a. destroy the environment, all right, to. get more or to do things like recently, you know, Trump's big beautiful bill, a. trillion dollars in tax breaks to the. 1%, massive cuts to Medicaid, nutrition, and. education. And these guys will go. further. In other words, they do not. look at economics or something. Well, you know, I made it. I got $3 billion,

man. I couldn't spend that in a thousand. years. How lucky am I? It's not what. they think. They want more and more and. more more wealth and more power. And. that has got to be stopped. When you. look at the way the system is built. right now, you know, I I know it's easy. for a lot of people to say, um, we hate. oligarchs. And then other people say, oh, America doesn't have oligarchs. They. go, America has a democracy, and America. just has some very rich people who have. made some important things that make the. world go round. So, we shouldn't call. them oligarchs. We should call them. business people. And that's what.

America's founded on. It's founded on. business. How do you respond when. somebody says, "Well, Bernie, you're. just trying to interrupt a very natural. thing that is capitalism and it's the. greatest system in the world.". >> Well, you're in a hyper capitalist. situation. Uh when we talk about oligarch, oligarchy, you're talking about a small number of. people with incredible wealth and power. >> Mhm. >> All right. So, what is their power. about? Their power is not only that they. control to a significant degree the.

entire economy. So today, not only do. you have more income and wealth. inequality that we've ever had, you have. more concentration of ownership. Okay. That means fewer and fewer large. corporations. uh own and control what is produced, what their workers make, what you pay at. the grocery store. >> Yeah. Okay. And then on top of that, these corporations themselves are owned. by huge Wall Street firms. So you have. companies like Black Rockck, uh, Vanguard, State Street. These three.

corporations. combined are the dominant stockholders. of 95% of American corporations. Got. that? So it's. >> they're the dominant. >> Yes. Add the three together. You look. up, go to Google, look up any. corporation you want to, almost any, you. will find Vanguard, State Street, Black. Rockck, major stockholders. I know you're you're looking at me in a. quizzical way here. It's true. Check it. out. So when it is under here, give you.

an example. I was the chairman of the health, education, labor, and pension committee. Now I'm the ranking member. So we hear. from and reach out to workers all over. this country who are involved in labor. struggles. Okay. Yeah. They call Bernie, we're on strike. Can you give us. support? So we get on the phone and we. call up the guy who's nominally the head. of the company. He says, "You talking to. the wrong guy, Bernie? somebody else. owns us and you find that somebody else. owns somebody else. That's what a. conglomerate is about. Somebody owns. something but it's owned several times.

over. Yeah. >> All right. >> It's a relatively small number of people. who control the economy. That's called. oligarchy. But it's not just that. How. do you get the information? You're in. the information business, right? Or the. entertainment bit. That's what you do. for a living. Correct. So, who owns the. media? >> You tell me. >> It's a few companies now. >> That's right. Yeah. And everything's. getting consolidated. It's becoming. smaller and smaller. It's fewer and. fewer people. >> You got it. Yeah. All right. So, what my. understanding is, you have six large.

uh international conglomerates, media. conglomerates that control about 90% of. what the American people see here, and. read. All right. So, look, take a look. Talk about oligarchy. Mr. Musk, is that. all he does is make electric vehicles? Not quite. He owns Twitter, right? >> Yeah. >> Oh, what about Mr. Bezos. Well, he owns. the Washington Post, which is a very. influential newspaper, and he owns. Twitch. What about the Ellison family? Well, they just bought Paramont, which.

happens to own CBS movie. All right. >> And then you got uh Mr. Zuckerberg, of. course, who owns Meta, which controls. Facebook and Instagram. So, you got four. of the wealthiest guys in America owning. us just those. Not to mention Rupen. Murdoch obviously from owns Fox, the. Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, right-wing newspapers all over the. world. You check out who owns newspapers. in the United States, billionaires by. and large. So you add up income and.

wealth inequality, concentration of. ownership, control over the media. Let. me throw out another one. We talked. about democracy. Well, Trevor, do we live in a democracy? >> People would say yes. >> And the answer is yes and no. We have. elections, right? So, who plays the. influential role in elections? All. right, let's go back just to the last. election. Mr. Musk, the wealthiest guy. on earth, spent $270. million. to help elect Donald Trump, right? $270.

million. That's true. >> Yeah. >> And his reward, these guys don't make. investments without getting something in. return. True. I mean, they don't do it. out of the goodness of their heart. So, forget all the tax breaks and other. breaks that he got. He got to run the. government for three or four months and. impose his right-wing extremist ideology. on the American people. I'll give you. another example. >> There was this so-called big beautiful. bill. What happens if a Republican were to.

stand up and say, "You know what? I. looked at this bill. It ain't a good. bill." And it happened. There's a guy. named Tom Tillis. I didn't bring a bill. to you. He's a senator from North. Carolina, not the world's most famous. senator, just kind of a typical. conservative Republican. He made the. mistake of actually reading the bill and. he discovered that several hundred. thousand people in North Carolina were. going to lose their health insurance. He. says, "You know what? I can't support. that." You know what happened to him? Literally within hours, Trump was on. social media ripping the hell out of.

this guy. Billionaires were saying, "We. are going to, you know, we got a primary. opponent against you." And I think in a. day he said, "Forget it. I'm out of. here. I'm not running for re-election.". So right now, what oligarchy is about is. not only controlling the economy, controlling the media, it is also. controlling the political process. >> Yeah. >> And it's not just Republicans. Kla Harris had some 80 billionaires. contributing to her campaign. And I.

think that resulted in her running a. much more conservative campaign than she. should have run. It was an election that. should have that she should have won. In. my view, she lost it because of. conservative influence from the. billionaires who told her not to speak. up for working families. That's called oligarchy. Is that does. that sound like an oligarchy? >> It sounds like an oligarchy. The the you. know the only thing that comes to my. mind is that I think of an ecosystem. You know, any ecosystem goes out of. balance when one species is sort of.

allowed to thrive by itself without a. natural predator of some sort. So, it's. a weed or a plant that moves and then. all of a sudden it's, you know, it just. prolates propagates over and over. You. get what I'm saying? It's it can be a um. it can be a rabbit that goes from one. island to another and all of a sudden it. can just breed to infinity and wipe. things out. I I I wonder if if America. can get out of this place because as you. as you just said, there's something. really interesting to what what you just. said. The.

Republicans have very openly said, especially under Trump, we're pro. business and we're with these people. Democrats say they're on the side of the. people, but then a lot of the time their. actions don't seem to match up. It seems. like they. >> Javo, let's not be naive. No, I don't. think anyone in America believes that. Democrats are on the side of. working-class people. I mean, there's. some rhetoric occasionally, but most. working people don't know it. And in. fact, the dynamics of American politics.

is over the last 40 or 50 years, the. Democratic Party, which once was the. party of the American working class, is. now, you know, a a corporate party, which has done in fairness, and I always. say this, we have made significant. advances in civil rights, in women's. rights, in gay rights, and at least in. environmental consciousness. Democrats. deserve a lot of credit for that. But in. terms of representing the needs of the. working class, if they represented the. needs of the working class, you would.

not have this massive income and wealth. inequality. And equally important today, you know, I talked about the rich. getting richer and all that stuff. >> Yeah. >> What's going on for the You tell me. what's going on with the working class. in America today. How they doing? >> Earning less than ever before. >> That's right. >> Income's not matching up with inflation. >> You got it. Yeah. >> So, here's a startling fact. We put it. in the book and that is over the last 50. or so years real inflation accounted for. wages weekly weekly wages. >> for the average American worker is lower.

today than it was 50 years ago. >> Lower today. 50 years ago. >> Think about the explosion in technology, right? Workers are far more. >> productive. They're producing a lot. more. Mhm. Mhm. >> And yet during that entire period, despite increases in worker. productivity, real inflation accountable. wages are lower. Meanwhile, during that. same period, there was a $75 trillion. transfer of wealth that went from the. bottom 90% to the top 1%. So you add all.

of that stuff up, it it's not hard to, you know, I think people instinctively. understand it. The very rich are doing. phenomenally well, massive transfer of. wealth. Working families are struggle. 60% of people in America today live. paycheck to paycheck. We have the. highest rate of childhood poverty of. almost any major country on earth. Highest rate of senior poverty of almost. any major country on earth. That is. where we are as a nation today. >> In the book, you you tell a story about. being at Trump's inauguration.

>> No. And you. >> No, you're reminding me of that, >> right? You wrote it in the book. >> I know. And you talk about looking around. at the people who are gathered there and. obviously there's everyone you know who. works in the government and senators. etc. But you notice there's an outsized. collection of the richest people in the. world. Like the way you describe it, it. sounds less like an inaugur inauguration. and more like a like a board meeting, you know, like a. >> That's true. >> It it seems like I I want to know if you.

think this is the worst it's been. Was. it growing to this? Because it truly. didn't just happen overnight. When do. you think what do you think was the. first domino? If if we were to take a. step back and go, "Okay, Bernie, when do. you think you remember seeing the first. domino where you went, "Oh man, this. this is not how. >> I don't know if I know the answer to. that, but I will tell you. I mean, again, going back to the inaugural, >> yeah, >> you had the three wealthiest guys, Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg sitting right. behind Trump. And right behind them were. another I think 15 billionaires who.

Trump had nominated to head up a major. federal agencies. Okay, that's the. reality. This is a government of the. billionaire class, by the billionaire. class, and for the billionaire class. When did this begin? Did it just start. under Trump? Of course not. >> Mhm. >> But I think the brazeness, what you got. to give Trump credit for in the past, money always played an important role. No secret there. But he's right out. open. I don't give a damn. The whole. world knows it. I got the richest people. in the world sitting right beside me and.

they're gonna generously give to my. inauguration fund and oh my goodness, they're going to give me gifts and oh my. good. my Yeah. >> Right. And the guy from Qatar, whatever. is, you know, decided to give us a three. 400 million plane. Just a generous. person. So nice to me. Uh you know, and. on and on it go. you know, he's made. billions of dollars from crypto, etc., etc. Uh, when did it begin? I think I'm.

not an expert on this. I I think early. 1970s. when Democrats were saying, "Hey, Republicans get all this corporate. money. Why don't we start getting some. of that money as well?". >> And in politics, the truth is, you know, see, there's an old Woody Guthrie song, which is which side are you on? So if. you're taking money from billionaires. and large corporations, at. >> the end of the day, you may say nice. things, you may occasionally do good. things, but you're not going to be on. the side of the working class. And the.

results are pretty clear. So when when. you're in Washington DC and you're. you're surrounded by all these people, I. I always wonder. sort of like what the inner. conversations are because I I read I. read articles and obviously you know I'm. on the outside and so I'm trying to. understand what's happening and I. remember one of the articles I read that. really got me was it was talking about. the upcoming midterms and then thinking. forward to the next election and I'm I'm. sure you've seen this but it was um it. was AI related.

uh tech investor and you know the likes. of Zuckerberg and you name it. >> and they are putting together these. massive massive super PACs. >> Yes. >> And their only goal is to go after. politicians who suggest any type of. regulations against AI and they go we're. going to destroy you before you get in. And then some politicians have commented. either on or off the record saying well. I don't want to cross them because I I. don't think this AI thing is that big a. deal in what I'm doing anyway. So I'm. I'm just not going to cross them.

>> That's not That's true. But that's what. I'm talking about. So, do we live in a. democracy? Yeah. But if you vote away, if I'm a crypto guy or I'm an AI guy or. I'm a fossil fuel guy, you can run for. office, but I'm going to put huge. amounts of money in a super PAC. >> as a result of this disastrous Citizens. United Supreme Court decision. >> and I'm going to beat you. >> Now, will I beat you every single time? No. >> But you know what? If I put tens and. tens of millions of dollars into your.

opponent, Trevor, I will beat you most. of the time. And that's that's called a. corrupt political system. And that's. what we're living under. >> So where where do we begin? You know, in. the book you you you lay out all these. facts. And I won't lie, some when I was. reading through some of the numbers, I. was like, Bernie, this is this is. insane. The numbers are so overwhelming. >> Yes, they are. >> It's it's it's impossible. It it just. seems like this monumental task. And and. then you talk about, which I think is. important, all the people who are coming. out to support. You know, you've got. 30,000 people coming to your rallies at.

a time when the media tells people that. no one wants to be engaged in politics. The media says no one cares about. politics anymore. No one wants to read. it, >> but they're coming out to your rallies. >> You know, people are showing up. People. are showing up for Mandani. People are. showing up for for for certain. politicians who are saying a certain. thing. And I I I wonder what the first. steps are. Maybe that's what we should. be talking about is, you know, you go. through the book. >> and I love how you take us through some. of the historical fights for instance. that once seemed unwinable. >> If if you were to start with one thing.

today, where do you think we start? Because it seems like a cycle right now. It's like they they have the money so. they can put the ads out. The ads get. their people in. When their people are. in, they make the laws to favor them. So. then how do you how do you break it? Because it seems like a chicken and the. egg cycle. Look, I wish I could tell you. there was a magical solution, but you. mentioned, you know, the Mum Donni. campaign is a very good example. It. seems to me like a microcosm of what. we're looking at. Give you an example. >> So, this guy who nobody had ever heard. of, starts off at 1% of the polls right.

here in New York City, 2%. >> He suddenly starts raising issues that. are on everyone's mind. Nobody can. afford housing in New York City, right? Workingass people can't do that. Transportation is expensive. Child care. is off the charts. Uh working-class. people have a hard time getting decent. quality food for their kids at a price. they can pay, right? Among other issues. >> He starts raising these issues, gets. more and more support. Comes into the. primary. He generates, as I understand. it, he gets 50,000 volunteers.

50,000 volunteers. That is insane. Totally insane. All right. So to. everybody's shock and surprise, he beats. a former governor, right, Mr. Cuomo, right? Everybody beats a All right. You would think now in terms of. politics, let's just talk about. politics. Democratic party with. leadership would say, "Whoa, here we are. Our people are demoralized. Trump was elected. We got a young guy, a.

smart guy. He has 50,000 volunteers. raising small dollar donors. This could. not be better. Oh my god, we're off and. running. There's a revolution. Thank. God. Well, not quite. The four major. Democratic leaders uh in the state of. Vermont as of today, no one's supporting. him. Now, doesn't that sound a little. bit weird when the Democratic Party, according to the polls today, is at the lowest point that has been in.

decades, one candidate generates. enormous enthusiasm, pulls off a major. upset, but they don't support him. Why is that? And what does this have to. do with oligarchy? Meanwhile, at the. same time, you have people, and this is, you know, this to me is kind of new. Money always played a role in politics. No question. But you got people like, was it Bill Arian guy? >> Yeah. >> Gosh. He says, "We are we are oligarchs. We are billionaires. And we are now. going to spend as much money as it takes.

to defeat Mr. Mandani.". Really? That's called democracy. I mean, and they're out in the open. about it. It's not It's not like he's. putting money underneath front pages of. the newspaper. We will. So, who the hell. is who runs the city? >> And then what you're really looking at, I want you to don't want to take this. too far a stretch. You got a president. of the United States. You know, he gets. into sometimes squables with Mr. Putin, but the idea of, you know, in Russia.

there are elections. You know that Putin. always gets 80 90% of the vote. He does. very well. >> Only his people can run for office. So Saudi Arabia where you'll remember. Trump made his very first trip. That's. where he went to Saudi Arabia, UAE. >> These are zillionaires, I mean some of. the wealthiest people in the world. running autocratic governments. So what is true in my view is many of. the coming back here to the United.

States many of these big tech guys they. don't believe in democracy. I mean read. what they say. It's not just that they. want to even support this or that. opponent. At the end of the day they. think democracy is an impediment to. their god-given right to make as much. money as as they as they want. >> Yeah. >> That's what we're looking at right now. Scary stuff. So I can't I can't help but wonder where. America goes from here because New York. is like the perfect example. You know I.

I everyone was shocked at how Manny. rose. I mean his ascendancy was nothing. short of spectacular. Andrew Cuomo seems like it's it's a done. deal. The next thing you know. Mumani has it. Andrew Cuomo is dropping. out and then he's not dropping out and. then nobody's supporting Manny. I won't. lie to you. It felt reminiscent and it. feels reminiscent of your campaign in. 2016. >> 2020 20 more like but but also but I.

like Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Going back. But. like when I think of No, but I think of. your campaign where where everyone. assumed Hillary was winning and people. went, "Well, this is the next line in. the succession. This is how it's going. to go.". >> She was the anointed one. >> The anointed one, right? This senator. from Vermont comes along, Bernie. Sanders. People go, "Oh, it's silly. summer. It happens. It'll go.". >> Exactly. the people on the ground start. swelling up and the people say I think. this Bernie guy could be the one but. then the Democratic party are the ones.

that stand in the way and and I I then. ask a question that I think a lot of. people are asking on the ground and that. is is the Democratic party still the. vehicle for liberalism in America. >> well I don't like the word liberalism. but I would for progressivism oh. >> progressivism okay. >> better word and the answer is to God's. got honest with you, I don't know. I. don't know. Uh we are supporting. candidates who are running as. independents and as progressive. Democrats right now. What I will tell.

you, Trevor, is that around the world, what's going on here in the around the. world, there are similar political. situations that there are here in the. United States. >> So centrist parties like the Democratic. Party are in decline in Germany, in. France, in the UK. right-wing extremist bodies like Trump's. MAGA movement are on ascendancy with. some exceptions. That's the trend. >> And the reason is that all over the.

world in the global economy, working. people, rural people are feeling left. behind while the rich get richer. And. right-wing extremists like Trump have. something to say to them. Centrist. parties Yeah. >> do not. So I think. where the Democratic leadership is right. now is way way way out of touch with. where working families and the majority. of the people are. So either they get. replaced either there is a movement says.

thank you for your what you've done. you're gone now we need a new party that. represents working people or else they. hang on so tightly that they force the. creation of another party which is not. easy in the United States it's easier in. the UK and other countries but the. current leadership of the Democratic. party is as I mentioned New York state. is a perfect example where there should. be enthusiasm and excitement. there is fear that workingclass people. that ordinary people are going to get. involved and uh and threaten the uh.

existence of the of the leadership here. their power. When I when I read about. like the history of the world, um. I sometimes worry that this is the. natural conclusion, right? It feels like. um globalization was the thing and the. corporations got rich and you know money. gets centralized, a few people get. everything and then that leads to strife. and turmoil. That strife and turmoil. leads to populism. that populism oftent. times if we look at history then leads.

to some of the worst periods and that's. when people like Bernie Sanders actually. get listened to that's when that's when. people are most likely how how do you. how do you think how do you think people. break through in this moment how do we. how do we break through before it's too. late like how do we break through before. it's world wars and before it's massive. recessions and before people are. literally scrging for. >> let me go back I should have said this a. moment ago in response to your good. question about the Democratic party. I I think the Democratic leadership is. way out of touch. The dilemma that we.

face right now. is I think there's got to be for the. moment at least something like a united. front between progressives like myself. and Democrats in order to defeat Trump. Okay. So, we're fighting two fights. We're fighting to either open up the. Democratic party to become a. workingclass party or start a new party. But at the same time, it is absolutely. imperative that we keep our eyes on. Trump who is clearly moving this country.

into an authoritarian society. >> Okay. So, we got two fights on our. hands. >> And that's the that's the political. moment. >> uh that I find myself in. >> How how are they out of touch? I don't I. don't understand that. So, let's use the. the Mumani example. For me, for me, it. seems like a simple one, right? Andrew. Cuomo gets trounced. Like, he gets. trounced in a way where on the night he. can go home. He doesn't have to delay. anything, right? Generally, that's a. trouncing in politics. To your point, in my head, in many. people's heads, you'd go, "Okay, it's.

obvious." And this seems like the. popular route to go down, which is what. politics is supposed to be, as in like. popular of the people. The people are. choosing what they would like, right? How do they not see that? Do they what. do they say to you when you're talking. to them? How do they not see that not. seeing that? Do not these are not dumb. people. And that's the first, oh, people. don't understand. They understand. everything. Yeah, >> these are not dumb people. >> They have power and they want to keep. their power and they are what Mandani.

has done and what I have done in past. presidential election is to threaten. that power. So if you're sitting if your. power base is that you can raise a whole. lot of money from wealthy people, you go. to nice cocktail parties, you walk out. with $100,000, you hire a consultant, the consultant puts 30 secondond ads on. television, that's your world. and then. somebody else comes along a mundad or. somebody else and mobilizes tens of. thousands of people doesn't ask the rich. for campaign contributions that is a. real threat to your existence okay that.

is the bottom line and um the pity of it. is these folks are not evil people the. democratic leaders that I know they are. certainly not dumb people but they are. more interested in clinging to power. than to allow to support a grassroots. mobilization. which has the potential to transform. America. They become an impediment to.

that process. >> You know, it's funny when you were. saying that, I was thinking about the. entertainment industry and I look at the. shifts that are happening in the. entertainment industry. They they mirror. a lot of what you're saying. For so. long, Hollywood had a had a centralized. idea of who said what and who got to say. it. A few people decided who was in a. movie, who was on TV, and who got. famous. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And they did this for so long and they. squeezed so hard that from the cracks of. that little squeeze of theirs, you know, from the crevices of their fist, new.

media started emerging, new talents, new. voices, you know, and so in the world of. podcast, it was the Joe Rogan. In the. world of streaming, it's like the. Kaisenats, etc. And you see this. happening everywhere. and they have now. lost the ability to define and funny. enough they've come around. So now if. you want to promote a movie, you have to. go on, you know, a streamer's platform. If you want to get somebody pushing your. content, you have to go on YouTube now. You have to go. So the power is slowly. moving in that way to the people. But it.

seems like Hollywood sort of understands. it. And I don't know if they'll change, but it seems like they understand it. When you talk to. Democrats who are establishment and they. they go, "This is the way it is.". Is there anything you say to them that. that that that convinces them? Is there. any moment where you've seen them go, "Ah, Bernie, you're right.". >> Well, you do see that actually that you. know uh you know polling. they're not oblivious to polls and what. polls show is that people like myself a.

are popular but more importantly that. the ideas that we are talking about. resonate extraordinarily strongly among. working people. So I ask you, the United. States, the richest country on earth, is. the only major country not to guarantee. healthcare to all people. How many. Democrats do you think are talking about. the need for a Medicare for all? Well, I. introduced the bill in the Senate. We. got, I think, 15 co-sponsors out of. >> 15. >> out of 47. Why would you not be prepared to take on.

the insurance companies and move to a. costeffective quality health care system. guaranteeing healthcare to all people? Well, it's the power of the insurance. companies. For years, you know, we've. been fighting to lower the outrageous. cost of prescription drugs. You know. what the American people? They hate the. drug companies probably more than. anything in the world. They really do. They're getting ripped off every day. They know it. Have the Democrats, they've done a. little bit in fairness, but have they. gone anywhere near as far as they. should?

Here's something, and I'm talking about. basic necessities like health care, uh, medicine. What about education? Psychologists tell us that 0 through. four are the most significant years of. human development for intellectually and. emotionally. In the richest country on. earth, don't you think we would have the. best child care system in the world? You'd hope so. >> Well, you tell me. I don't know if you. have any kids or not, but. >> No, I don't. But I I I have friends who. do, and I'll I mean, it's pretty obvious.

that it's not. Far from it. >> It's outrageously expensive. And the And. the workers themselves get paid, you. know, starvation wages. Here's something. that's again quite remarkable and. showing the direction which the country. is going. You ask me, you know, because. I am going to be 84, you know, what the. world the changes that I've seen in my. life. >> Yeah. When I was a kid, young man, graduated James Madison High School here. in Brooklyn, New York, and I went to my.

first year of college to Brooklyn. College. Do you know what tuition was back then? >> Oh, I feel like you're going to shock. me. >> Not going to shock you. It was If it. wasn't then, it was a few years before. Was tuition free? >> Oh, that shocked me. >> Does it shock you? Really? >> Yeah, that really shocks me. I thought. you were going to say like maybe a few. thousand or something. >> City University of New York. >> You just said tuition was free, Bernie. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's like you said. >> Yes. Are you shocked by that? >> That's that's shock that's shocking to. me that it was free. >> Free? >> Yeah. >> University of California, one of the. great university systems in the world.

>> That's shocking to me. >> That was I don't know the exact year. 60. years ago, 70 years ago, it was tuition. free. Yeah. You're looking at me like I'm I'm. you're you're in a state of shock here, right? It was because at that point, you. know, people said, "Okay, you know, you're workingass kids. We want them to. get the best education they can. We're a. growing nation. We need, you know, the. best educated workforce. Sure, no big. deal. That's what we're going to have. In fact, City College before it was a. city university was tuition free for a.

very, very long time. And it was one of. the great universities in the world. wasn't some dumping place. In Vermont, we had state colleges that if you were a. verter tuition free and again all over. the country. So we have regressed in. saying that if you know some 19-year-old. kid goes to college today doesn't have. any money leave school 50 $70,000 in. debt go to medical school come out. $500,000 in debt. All right that I'm. saying here.

is that the entire system broadly. defined economic and political is. working phenomenally well for the people. on top. It is screwing workingclass. families who are struggling. and in many ways are in desperate shape. >> Yeah. And what's what's sad about that. is all of the information that comes. out, as you said, is often times coming. out from media that's attached to those. people. Yes. >> So they'll say the stock market is up.

>> That's right. >> They'll say GDP is better than ever. before. They'll say it's up and to the. right. And the weirdest thing for me for. people to understand, and I mean it took. me, it's not like I studied economics. excited to go and read and learn was to. realize GDP is one of the strangest. measures of how well the place is doing. because we can be in this room right. now. If Elon Musk walks in, the GDP of. this room is doing insanely well. >> Do you know what I mean? >> The three of us together. >> Oh, the three of us together.

>> We are the wealthiest people that have. ever lived. >> Elon Lee is not so much. >> Exactly. All of a sudden it goes down. And I think that's what that's what a. lot of people don't seem to understand. And and and I wonder like I wonder if if. that is part of the problem is people. are being sold the success of the idea. of an American corporation or company as. if it's their own, but it's not really. attached to them. >> The answer is yes and no. I think that's. part of it. Oh, we all can. You work. hard, you're going to make the American. dream something. You will become a.

billionaire as well. I think people. believe that less now than they used to. But here's what I think Trumpism does. very well from their perspective. Trump is a demagogue. And what does that. mean? It means that he is smart enough. and he is nobody's fool to recognize. that people are hurting. All right? That. the system is not working. Mhm.

>> So, if you're in the average person and. you can't afford to pay your rent or. send your kid to college and you're. hurting, you want an explanation. Why is. that, right? It's kind of natural. You. want to Why is the world the way it is? I Everybody really. >> searches for an answer. Trump has an. answer. And his answer as a demagogue is the. answer the demagogues have always given. And that is you place the blame. on powerless minorities. Right? In the.

30s in Germany it was the Jews were the. cause of mass unemployment and so forth. and so on. Gypsies in America there were. problems. Our schools it was the gay. people who were problems caused the. problems. Uh you know for many years in. this country you know if you're a white. workingclass person well the reason. you're not making more money as a. black's taking your job. Nothing new. about it. In the UK they blamed people. from you know they were like oh it's the. Polish they said it's Pakistan and it's. India and it's always moved a. generation.

>> Exactly. You pick the Jews I mean they. must sit around and say who do we blame. today? >> Yeah. >> And it works because people are hurting. and then you have the entire media. structure saying well it's the fault of. the undocumented people in this country. It's the undocumented now. So we're. going to throw them all out and we're. going to make life miserable for them. All right. Thank God my life is going to. improve. That is that is what oligarch. that is what not only oligarchy is but. it's what demagogues do and that is. Trumpism in spades. That's what he's.

doing. So he's what he's doing rather. than I was at his state I wasn't only at. his inauguration. I was at his state of. the union speech. Guy gets up there. gives one of the longest state of the. union speeches uh in history. Did he have one word to say about the. healthcare crisis in America? No. Did he. have one word to say about the housing. crisis in America? No. One word to say about the high cost. of prescription drugs. No. One word to. say about how college is unaffordable?

No. What did he spend his time thinking. about it? He spent probably 10 minutes. on blaming on describing how a trans So. whether this is true or not, who the. hell knows? But his description was a. transgender athlete a in a volleyball. game smashed a ball into a young woman's. face and hurt her. We heard that, right? One of the great crisis is what happened. on a volleyball court to one young. woman. Okay? And the rest was terrible.

crimes and they were committed by. undocumented people against young women. Okay? Because we know and then the verbiage. thoughts they're not really human. M. Trevor, they're really not. They are. they are subhuman people. I mean, and. it's almost the language. They're. poisoning quote unquote poisoning the. blood of America. These are people who. don't share human values. They're. savages, I think, is the word described. >> Yeah.

>> Well, that terminology is sound. familiar. >> We've heard it before. >> Yeah. >> All right. When you demonize a person. and you make that person less than. human, there's no telling what you could do to. that person. And then that is if you go. after those people, that is improving. life for everybody else. So that's the. big lie. That's what demagoguery is. about. That's the move to. authoritarianism. And that is what I stay up nights. worrying about. You know, when I when I.

was reading through the book, one of the. things I I hope I hope really gets to. people is is something. that often times isn't isn't front page. because it's boring and yet it's front. page in everybody's lives and it's how. the consolidation of power comes to cost. you at home in your life, you know. And. you you talk through like food for. instance in America and how all the meat. is basically what four companies. >> Yes. You know what I mean? And I I just.

want you to walk me through that because. I I what you do really well in the book. is is you break down why this is a. problem because some people would go, "Well, Bernie, I don't know what your. issue is. It's consolidation and and. what it does is it enables a company to. work more efficiently. They love that. it's more efficient and it means we can. expand our capability and we can get out. there and and lower prices for all. Americans. >> What's what's so wrong with only having. four major companies that control all. the meat in and around America? Well, what's wrong is that in capitalist.

terms, uh, there is minimal amount of. competition. And if you think these guys. are not, you know, working with each. other to keep prices artificially high, they are. So, what the theory of. capitalism is some new upstart comes in, produces the product uh, at a lower. rate, people are going to go, forces. prices to go down. That's it's a good. theory and occasionally it works. But. right now whether it's big tech uh or. major industry after major industry uh.

that is not the case. They are. controlled by large uh conglomerates uh. who can control prices to a large degree. uh and uh how they treat their workers. It's not just that. It's also. terrifying for diseases because you know. if you look at like some of the biggest. um diseases that have that have gone. through the US like in in the food it's. often times because it goes through one. plant it goes through one company you. know it's not it's not one area that.

gets affected like the baby food was an. example of that um I remember when there. was a baby food shortage I I read. through the story I was like what is. going on here how can there be a baby. food shortage in the United States come. to find out there's basically almost. like one company that's running the baby. food and if their plant gets one. contamination, every single mother in. the United States now doesn't get baby. food and then you can't bring more baby. food into the country because they've. lobbied correctly to make it so that you. can't import baby food. It it feels like.

a like this this it every time you read. about these things, it feels like it's a. neverending story of uh impossible. mountains to climb. And then I I found. myself thinking, I was like, where does. Bernie get the energy? Genuinely, I was. like, you you're 83 years old and not. once have I ever seen you be like, well, that's all, folks. I guess we tried. >> I I genuinely know want to know from you. like on a personal level, like what what. keeps you hoping and then what keeps you. pushing? What What do you see that many. people don't when they when they give I.

will tell you what I see and it's um. uh it's part of this fighting oligarchy. tour some of which I did with uh. Alexandria Kaziocortez, Greg Kazar from uh Texas, others. um. I have I am extraordinarily fortunate uh. as as someone who has been to every. state in this country and I say this not. to be rhetorical or to be overly. romantic here but I have met so many.

unbelievably wonderful people. Uh, you know, and I have worked with. local unions where you have blacks and. whites and Latinos standing together. taking on corporate greed. I have talked. to young people. uh who have a vision for this country. that is so different uh than the one of. today which is based on greed and.

selfishness. They want a very different. America. So talking to a lot of young people, talking to working people, it really. does inspire me. Uh I you know I was you. know if you go to a a rally as as we had. I describe it in in the book if you go. to a rural area in California Folsam. California. Have you heard of Falsam. California? >> I've never heard of Folsam California. No. >> All right. How I had heard of Folsam. Many of your viewers will have heard of. it. That's where Johnny uh Johnny Cash. did a song. Folsam Blues. It's a prison.

There's a prison. >> big prison there. That's all I had heard. of Fulsome. was a rural area controlled. by Republicans in the Congress. We had. 30,000 people coming out. It was an. insane thing. I mean, people was all. over the place. I went to LA, there were. 36,000 people. Denver, 34,000 or. something like that. And you see that. energy of people saying, you know what, we want real change. How can you not. walk away from that and say, whoa, man, we can do it. We can do it. And then I.

talk to kids and that also inspires me. So, the advantage that I have as. somebody who's been to every state in. the country and I've had the opportunity. to talk to, you know, in this particular. tour, we've been now to uh over 20. states. We did 35 events. I've talked to. over 300,000 people. That inspires me. That gives me the energy to keep going. >> Don't go anywhere cuz we got more what. now after this.

[Music]. You said something a while ago that has. stuck with me for years actually and it. was in and around one of the elections. as you were talking about how people. should campaign and you said, and I'll. paraphrase you, forgive me, but you said. something to the effect of we need to. stop focusing so much on basically. selling it as a race issue and selling. it more as as a as a living wage issue,

as a survivability issue, as a And I. remember at the time some people didn't. get what you were saying. People were. like, "No, but this but this is a race. thing." And and it it's funny because it. took me back to you know some of the. things that happened in and around the. civil rights movement whether it was Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. etc. who said. basically that oh poor doesn't know a. color you know poor do do you think that. that's been some of the problem in in in. the way politics especially in the. Democratic party it feels like a lot of. the Democrats who go out there will.

spend a lot of time being like black. people come on you you're good you're. black and and Latinos Latinos but but. they don't seem to go into the heart of. what they. >> and that's not an accident okay so you. have. what's his name uh I can't remember his. Uh to answer your question, what you're. talking about is identity politics. >> Okay. >> So, we are so proud that for the first. time we have a judge from this state who. is black, Latino, Asian, you name it.

Really, we have a woman. This we have a gay that. that is. Look, all of us want to see um. parts of our society have good. representation in Congress and we're. making some progress. Donald Trump has surrounding him a whole. lot of women. There are right-wing women. governors all over this country, right? >> Are we all very proud? Oh man, thank God. we got a woman in politics who does not.

believe in women's right to control her. own body, who, you know, is terrible to. workers and so forth, but we're proud. that she's a woman. The issue is, and. this is what I meant earlier, Democrats. have retreated from class issues, from. economic issues, from a desire to take. on big money to, oh, isn't it wonderful? We have a woman here, and we have a gay. person here, and we have a black person. here, and a Latino person over there. And King, you remember now, you want to. hear how old I am? I was in Washington.

for the March on Washington, King's. March on Washington. I heard Dr. King. speak. You know what that march was. called? It was called, if my memory is. correct, jobs and freedom. Jobs and. freedom. Jobs actually went first. >> King understood that exactly as you. described it. What good? And he would, this is what he. said. He said, "What does it matter if a. restaurant which was segregated is. opened up if you don't have enough money. to afford the damn hamburger?" Right.

>> Yeah. >> All right. So, you got to open housing. That's great. You can't afford the rent. So for a myriad of reasons, some of. which we have discussed, the Democrats. have chosen to say, "Isn't it great? We. have a woman this, we have a gay that, black that." Rather than saying, "Hey, we got an economy that works for all of. us, not just the few. That all of our. people are earning a living wage, all of. our people have healthcare, all of our. kids, regardless of color, are able to. get a good quality education. that.

together we're taking on climate change. and creating jobs to save the planet for. all of us. >> So some to some degree look it goes. without saying uh there has been. discrimination as everybody knows. bigotry all over the place and we got to. fight that every day and we got to open. up the process to all of our people. But. it's not just that somebody is a woman. candidate or a gay candidates. What do. they stand for? What do you think people. misunderstand about class and classism? You know, I asked this because I I.

remember one day reading um a book. I. forget who the author was, but it was a. really poignant line and it basically. said um I cannot wait for America to get. over racism because racism is the first. stage and then they will discover that. classism is what they've been fighting. all along. >> Good. That's right. Because today, when. we talk about the working class of. America, who do you think we're talking. about? Disproportionately. Disproportionately. I mean, there are. millions and millions and millions of. whites in the American working class.

disproportionately. It's black, it's. Latino. Um, and women, as a matter of fact. Um, the class issue though, you see, is if. you're the head of a large corporation, likelihood is you have a good education, you have gay friends, maybe your wife or. your girlfriend has had an abortion, right? You're you're tolerant on all of. those issues. You don't stay up nights. worrying about black people getting a. job. But what do you worry about? What you. worry about is that you may have to stop. paying your fair share of taxes, that.

you may have to stop paying your workers. a living wage, and you will fight that. So, I find that many of these quote. unquote great liberal corporate types, we struggle with them to make sure that. they respect unions or they allow unions. to be formed, etc. But at the end of the. day, in my view, Trevor, if we're going. to transform America, which is the. question on everybody's mind, how do we. do it? It has to be a mass movement of. people. There has to be a growth in the. trade union movement. Uh and you know.

that is the way forward and that's what. we're working on. >> Do you think democratic socialism is is. the dirty word that it once was in. America today? >> No, it's actually quite popular among. young people and I think despite the. fact that no one quite knows what it. means. But I mean I think what. increasingly people do know is that you. have countries for example uh in. Scandinavia. Yeah. Uh you got Norway, Denmark, Sweden. If you go to those. countries, the most right-wing. politician would not for a minute.

suggest that healthcare is not a human. right. >> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the time their. right-wing politics is more about the. politics of other, but it doesn't. question the classist ideals that the. country holds. >> It doesn't question their what they call. their social welfare system. >> Yeah. Yeah. They believe that's the. bedrock, >> right? And nobody questions that. You're. right. And the rightwing will play off, you know, against immigrants and so. forth. But in those countries, healthcare is a human right. Higher. education is often free. Child care is. often highquality, free. Workers earn. quite good wages. Unions are much.

stronger than they are in the United. States. And I think a lot of young. people especially are looking around. here say, "How does it happen? You go to. Germany, you graduate college, you're. not in debt." And in this country, you. know, you're 50 $80,000 in debt. So I. think uh without even getting into the. essence of what socialism means, which. to me means democracy, by the way, not. just the right to vote every two or four. years, but having a say on the job. >> Yeah. >> Wouldn't life be a lot better if you. weren't just a cog in the machine. And.

we're seeing, by the way, one of the. nice things we are seeing in America, in. Vermont, pretty strong about workerowned. companies where workers themselves own. the companies, select their own. leadership. And what the all of the. studies show is that people feel much. better about their job. You know, the. absenteeism is less, productivity is up, people feel good. It's our company, pretty good. Could Could there could. there ever be laws written to sort of. entrench those types of ideas? And and I. know even saying that right now sounds. crazy to most people, but but the other.

day I was thinking about I was thinking. about sports and I was going I know. you're an avid basketball player. You. know, >> avid might be too strong, but I played a. lot of basketball. >> I've seen you shoot, Bernie. I've seen. you shoot. you you you drain them. Like. I remember when it was in the primaries, you would go to the gyms beforehand and. you were just like, "Yeah, >> I I found myself thinking about how. sports and everyone who watches sports. seems to understand in a basic concept. of fairness." And this is what I mean. Shaquille O'Neal comes into the NBA, the.

man is completely dominant. You throw in. the ball, he puts it in the hoop. You. throw in the ball, he puts in the hoop. You can't do anything to him. He stands. under that rim and he puts the ball in. the hoop. And then they change the rules. of the game. They say, "You know what? You can't stand in the paint in this. little section for longer than what is. it? 3 seconds, I think it is.". >> Yeah. And they go, "You have to keep. moving." Why? Because otherwise, Shaq. can just do this forever. And it's not. fair, >> right? >> And and I look at this in every sport. In fact, golf, you know, golf might be. my favorite sport. Not I don't play it.

I don't like playing it, but I love the. rules of golf because golf, contrary to who people, like the people. who play it, is one of the most. egalitarian fair sports that has ever. been created. It's it's the only sport. where you can come in as a terrible. golfer and you can beat the best golfer. in the world because the handicap system. acknowledges that your position coming. into the game should be accounted for in. order to get you to a level playing. field as somebody else. Like that always. blows my mind. Do you know what I mean?

And I I I wonder if politics can get to. that place. Is is it is it a crazy. thought that I have that you could write. laws that say people should own a piece. of companies if they work in it or. >> look it is not a crazy idea and there. are countries around the world to some. degree already doing that. Look, is it a. crazy idea? 1948, right? A few years ago. in Great Britain, a Labor government. said healthcare 1948,

healthcare is a human right. I don't. care if you're rich, you're poor, you're. young or old, you go to the doctor, you. don't take out your wallet. >> In the early '7s, Canada said the same. thing all over the world. That could be. a law signed tomorrow by the president. of the And think, Trevor, for a moment. what that would mean. We got a half a. million people go bankrupt every year. because of medical bills. People don't. die be people die because they don't get. to a doctor on time. Yeah. Do you know. how transformative that would mean if. people go to the doctor when they wanted. to? If they weren't worried about going.

into a hospital and not coming out. bankrupt. >> A lot of people have cancer getting. cancer treatment today. They're going to. go bankrupt. Do you know that? That's a. fact. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What would that mean? If we made. sure that every parent in America knew. that his or her kids would be able to. get all the education they wanted, great. schools, what would that mean? Yeah, just do the forget anything else. Not to. mention having wages which were livable. Is this a radical idea? It is not a. radical idea. Okay. But what the system.

tells you and that's what drives me. crazy and I try to get into it in the. book. The system tells you this is. communist. This is I mean you got you. know this is impossible to why. >> what's crazy is not that everybody has. healthcare. It's crazy that that Elon. Musk owns more wealth than the bottom. 52% of households. That's crazy. That's. how we got to re rethink things. How. crazy is it to think of the possibility. that another political party is what. will help America? Because you you know.

what it's like from the inside. Is is it. is it absolutely out there or is it. >> It's not it may well happen. Um. the two major parties are deeply deeply. flawed and in many ways out of touch. with ordinary people. Republican party. has become right-wing extremist. Democratic party is corporatist. tinkering around the edges and there's a. hunger for real change. If the. Democratic party can't deliver, I think. there is a real possibility that there.

will be a third party. problem is that. in this country to start a third party. being on the ballot in 50 states to. overcome all of the regulations anti-. third party efforts in in states is very. difficult but it's certainly a. possibility. >> You don't think it's impossible and what. >> is it? No, it is not impossible by any. means. It could happen. It could happen. >> So when you look at the Democratic party. today, what would you change if you. could change something tomorrow? What. what would you say to all of your your.

colleagues who have been with you where. they say, "Bernie, we are on your side, but we just don't agree." What's what's. the one thing you would change? >> Well, I would what I would make it clear. is that we are prepared to take on uh. powerful special interests in the. corporate world and the oligarchs. And. that means a strong progressive tax. system which says to Mr. Musk and to uh. the corporate world that they're going. to have to start paying their fair share. of taxes. Okay, that's number one. And.

by the way, widely popular. People. understand the need for that. You need. campaign finance reform if you want to. run for office. We need public funding. of elections. uh and uh ending these super PACs, Citizens United. You need health care. for all educational. >> Let's pause. Let's pause and go back on. that one. I That's That's a really. interesting idea. Public funding for elections. Let's talk. about Let's get into that. Like, let's. break it down. Like, why is that so.

important? What do you think it provides. us? >> It provides people who don't have a lot. of money and who are standing up for the. working class to run for office and to. get elected. Under the present. circumstance, you want to run for. governor, I'm going to run for governor. I have a super PAC behind me that's. prepared to give me $50, $100 million, I. will beat you nine times out of 10. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But if the rule the the laws are that in. order to get on the ballot, I need to. have at least x thousands of small.

contributions, right? And if I do that, I will there will I will get public. funding for my elections. Could only. spend a certain amount. That's the rule. I will beat you. In other words, it's a playing equal. playing field. If I can demonstrate that. I have strength, can get on the ballot, >> it's like salary caps in a way. >> Yeah. Right. That's what that's right. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> That's what they do in in the uh Major. League Baseball, right? >> Yeah. Major League Baseball, uh, you.

know, basketball, football. >> So, the Yankees can't have 10 times more. money than the Red Sox, right? You want. to beat me? Good. Let's do it. Fair. fight. $10 million each. That's it. It's. unfair if I have $100 million cuz I'll. always beat you. >> Do you do you worry though that those. types of systems are limited by how well. the government is running at that time? And this is what I mean. I love that. idea and I've always been pro it. But. then sometimes I go, "Oh man, if the.

people running have to get their. campaigns funded by a the government and. then the government is in the hands of. somebody like a Donald Trump who then. pulls every lever as we've seen. I mean, like, Donald Trump has made me think a. president is way more powerful than we. were ever told they were. You know, like. when when Biden was in power, when Obama. was in power, they always said, "Oh, there's only so much a president can do. There's" And then Trump goes, "No, no, there's everything a president can do. This man has spare keys that open doors. I didn't even know existed." You know, and so I wonder now in that system,

>> do you ever worry that then it means the. government is in control of who can get. into a race? How do we find the balance? Well, look, there's always manipulation. and illegal activity. Uh, but everything. being equal and it exists. It exists. here in New York City. You have public. funding of elections. It exists in other. states. Not a whole lot, but it does. exist. Bottom line is if you can. demonstrate, I mean, each state and and. community will do it differently, but if. you can demonstrate you have a certain.

amount of support by getting X numbers. of small contributions, so you're not a. a flake. Hey, give me $9 million. I'd. like New York City. You got to show. support. >> I think that can be administered fairly. >> and I think that's the direction we've. got to go. >> Public funding. The next one you were. going to say was. >> uh Well, I mean it essentially make the. American people know that our goal is a. vibrant democracy, making it easier for. people to vote, not harder, and making. it clear to people that government can.

act in ways to improve their lives. So, it's what we would call a progressive. agenda, whether it's health care, education, a fair tax system, uh, you know, dealing with many of the. crises that we face, climate change, etc. But what I think people don't see. is an agenda that they can nod their. heads to and say, "Yeah, that makes. sense to me. I want to support. candidates who will move us in that. direction.". >> We're going to continue this. conversation right after this short.

break. One of the uh things that people always. use against you is they'll say, "Well, Bernie, you say all these things, but. you know, your bill doesn't get. support." Or, "Bernie, you you say this, but you can't bring the Democrats. along." And and I was I was wondering. about this the other day because we we. have these blips in these moments where. some of the most progressive politicians. come out and they always bring up your.

name, you know, so whether it was AOC or. now you have Mam Dani, they'll say, "Oh, Bernie inspired me and I'm now doing. this because of Bernie." And it made me. wonder to borrow from basketball is like. when you came into the game, were you. trying to be Michael Jordan who wins all. the rings or do you think you were. trying to be like Alan Iverson who. changes how the game is perceived? the. latter uh the more I. um look what I have always believed. is it's not a question of great leaders.

it's a question it's a question of large. numbers of people participating at the. grassroots level and Trevor that is in. fact how change always takes place right. it's not one it's the leaders follow the. people when the if you had millions of. people saying you know what you're. running office, you damn well give. better give me healthcare as a human. right and I want that in the first month. of your presidency. You know what. millions of people say? You'll have it. >> If people are dormant and not active, they won't. So our job is to create that.

kind of movement around a an agenda that. speaks to the needs of workingclass. people and an agenda that is really. prepared to take on the oligarchs. You. know, I was wondering about when I was. when I was looking through your history. and I see all these pictures of you at. rallies, at gatherings, like throughout. time, you know, being arrested, you name. it. There's there's one thought that. came to my head. I was like, man, I. wonder if part of the problem, and not. the only problem, but just like one of. the problems that, you know, progressive. politics has in a way is that.

progressives are very distracted. And. what I mean by that is if if I look at, you know, when I do comedy shows around. the country and I go to what people will. call a red state, I mean, I to be honest. with you, I've seen states have everyone. in them, but they'll go red state. I'll. find often times people are more. conservative. They they go to church, they're in like tight-knit communities. They're they're in groups that bring. them together around ideas. And often. times those ideas then spill into. politics or they overlap somewhere. And. you know, and it feels like progressives.

have less and less of that. They're. watching their own TV. They're listening. to their own music. There's no more big. gatherings. No one's going to church. And I I wonder how much of that you. think affects movements. You know, >> I think you're right. There was a time. um but let me just tell you what we're. trying to I'm trying to do in my own. state. Um we have had a we're a small state. We. only have 630,000 people. I have had and. we pay for this out of campaign funds. I.

think a dozen events. You know what they. are? They are foul shooting contests and. we give away free basketballs. Okay. And we've given away, you know, I. don't know, well over a thousand. basketballs. Good good basketballs, I. should say. Why do I do that? Well, number one, I want kids to play ball and. be active, right? Boys and girls. >> But you know what else we do when we do. those events? The whole community often. comes out. So there'll be 100, 200. people coming out in the town, right? and people are getting together. We have.

had now two we going to do this more. often. We had a walk in Marisville, Vermont, small town. Do you know how many people took a walk, couple of mile walk on a beautiful rail. trail. 600 people. 600 people just went. out for a nice walk. We had some music. We had some discussion. Went out for a. walk. We do dances. I'm a United States. Senate senator that sponsors dances and. we have hundreds of people coming out.

dancing. Why do I do all these things? They're non-political. All right. There's no political, no partisanship, no nothing. >> Yeah. >> It is to bring people together in a in a. time when we desperately need community. And what worries me very much, we didn't. even get into it and it's a huge issue, is AI and robotics. >> Mhm. And some of these guys. are almost. prepared to replace humanity if you.

like. And I worry very much that at this. particular moment for so many reasons, we need each other. We need each other. We got to come together. And when we. come together, you know what? You talk. to people and again, you know, I got to. most of the rallies we've had have been. in conservative areas. People understand. the health care crisis and they. understand the education crisis and they. understand the importance of us being. there for each other. >> Yeah. >> So, you know what I've never understood.

when you talk about the AI and robotics. thing is I don't understand if I'm maybe. too stupid to get it or if the people. who run these comp corporations have a. different idea of what the world would. be because I don't understand the end. goal. They want to build a factory full. of robots and the robots will do the. work. The robots will pack the boxes and. then a robot will deliver the thing and. then a robot will be cleaning a house. and then a robot will be reading an.

email. A robot will be responding to. that email and then an AI will be. advertising and then an AI will be. responding to a social media post and AI. and then I go like well if all of this. is just like a loop of the machines. when are people getting the money to buy. your product? Well, that's one of the. issues. >> Do you know what I mean? When are people. actually involved in the equation? >> I often use and to be honest with you, it's an issue that needs an enormous. amount of study and I haven't had the. time to get into it as deeply as I.

should, but this is what is pretty clear. to me. Uh, number one, uh, robotics and. artificial intelligence are going to. replace millions and millions of workers. in this country. Now, the contra. argument is, well, Bernie, you're just a. lite, you know? Yeah, the blacksmith. went out of business, right? But you had. an automobile mechanic replacing him, right? It's an evolution. That's the way. it is. >> I could be wrong. >> I don't think so. >> No. It's funny you say that because we.

had um Mustafa Sleman on who uh founded. Deep Mind, one of the first AIs that, you know, beat um the the champion at. Alph Go and Alpha Fold for the Proteins. He said that on the podcast. He said, "I. don't know why everyone's lying about. this. there will be a mass displacement. of jobs. >> Now, so that's number one, and that's. kind of easily understood. All right, a. robot is going to do the job in a. factory, not a worker. >> Um, do you want a uh.

uh you're a young person and you want an. entry- level job, AI is there? You're. not going to get that. That I think we. can understand. What else? >> What are even the greater threats of AI? Again, something easily understood is. that AI requires an enormous amount of. energy, electricity, and water. >> Okay? And you're seeing these data. centers being fought in community after. community. People's electric bills are. going to go up for the privilege of. getting uh losing their jobs. All right? So, you got what that does to the.

environment is and a lot of young people. are conscious about that. Then you got. the you got the other issue. You ask me. why. And it's not just your your point. is you're not going to have anybody. making money to buy the products. >> Yeah, I I don't get I don't get why. they're doing it. >> That's a good point. But I worry even. more. about human action. I I give you an. example in the uh my office is in the. Dirkson office building in the Senate. And this just happened to me the other.

day. I go down to the cafeteria every. now and then. And it's quite a good. cafeteria. And the people behind the. cashes are really nice people. And I. enjoy seeing them. I know them. I've. known them for years. Well, guess what? What do you think is happening? >> They're being replaced. >> You got it. >> Cashless registers. >> You got it. And you know what? I miss. that. I know their families. >> Yeah. >> You know, I know woman there has been. there for years. Her grandson died. I. heard about that. That's a human. interaction. I used to Burlington. airport. I used to drive out, say hello. to the person, pay my fee, and all that.

stuff. Uh what does it mean really deeply? You. go to a restaurant, a robot comes up to. you, says, you know, what's your order? Thank you. Gets cooked well, comes back. What do we lose without having that. human interaction? H is that something we should be. thinking about? So, you go to a nursing home and you'll. have robots turning you over, changing a. bed.

Is that the same as having a smiling. face and another human being? They're. talking to you. So I worry very much and these guys like. Musk and Alman and all these guys that's. not their things. They are not what I. would call terribly sociable people. They are into it. The point you raised. efficiency about efficiency. >> All right. Great. It reminds me very. much of that well-known saying the. operation was a success. Unfortunately. the patient died. Hm. You can have the.

most efficient operation in the world, but humans will become more and more. alienated and more and more in pain. And. already in America, we have a major. mental health crisis. Everybody knows. that. Kids are struggling. COVID was. part of that, but it's more than that. So the goal is not just economics, is. how do you create a human society? Not easy. But those are the questions we. got to ask. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think in many ways it it. often times for me means we've forgotten.

the purpose of something, you know, like. I I remember watching you in one of the. debates. This was when I was at the. Daily Show. We'd watch all of it. obviously, but I remember turning to my. team, this is when I was first in. America, and I said, "How does anyone. know what's real or not?" Cuz we had a. fact checker in the building. But I. remember going, "What is the point of. this?" And they said, "Well, it's so. that American people can watch." And I. said, "Yes, but one politician can stand. up there, say whatever the number they. want, and if you're at home, you don't. know which number is right or not. There's no, you know what I mean?" I was. like, "What is the purpose of a debate?".

And then you extend that further and I. go, "Business is an example." Even when. people talk about capitalism, I say, "Oh, capital." I go, "But yes, if you go. back and even read it, what was its. purpose?". >> Good. >> All right. Good. Now you're asking a. deep question. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, you start off with, >> "What is the goal of human life?" Now, you're getting pretty deep, right? >> Exactly. All right. Is it to make I mean. for the Trumps of the world, you can. lie, you can cheat and you steal and the. goal is money and power, right? That's. what it is. Money and power. That's what.

these oligarchs love. I don't know that most people are there. I mean, people want to be comfortable, but I think people want to live long, happy, and productive lives. Now, what. the hell does that mean? But, you know, that's what I kind of think. But that's. the kind of discussion that we have. Do. you want this ultraefficient society, which by the way will make the Musks of. the world even richer than they are. right now and cost working people their. jobs? Is that really who determined that.

that's the goal? Really? >> You know, so. >> yeah, we've made it the only measure. that defines how people are successful. >> Exactly. So you have this insanity which. drives me crazy and I mentioned in the. book is you're a billionaire. You made. your money no matter how you made it. Maybe you stole it, corrupt, whatever it. may be. Or you made it honestly. And you. are a wonderful human being. And you. are, think about this, a kindergarten. teacher making, you know, you've been a. teacher for 30 years. You're making. $50,000 a year. You know what you are in.

the Trump world? You're a loser. >> Damn. >> Imagine spending 30 years working with. kids. You're making $50,000. Meanwhile, you've enriched the lives probably of. hundreds and hundreds of children, right? >> I think that's important. >> Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that. I remember talking to someone who was um. pro crypto and remember when NFTs were. big. They were they were they were. touted as the next new thing. Oh, NFT. this and it was the little monkeys and. everyone, do you have a monkey? I have a. monkey. And everyone was like running. around and I was talking to somebody. about NFTs. And I said, you know what? I.

actually don't think NFTs are terrible, but it's interesting that you'll have. that idea for digital art, but you won't. have it for everything else in life. Cuz. I I always thought it would be great if. teachers had NFTs. Like why shouldn't. teachers get a tiny fraction from every. child that goes on to do something in. their lives? Because they've invested in. you. They've gone on to do something. Shouldn't they get some sort of It's. It's I always think it's crazy to what. you just said. How many teachers go. through their lives impacting? I. wouldn't be here without my teachers. And then I go like, who are they? Where.

are they? Why do we not think about. those people and giving back? But then. I'm more than willing to pay a. subscription to an app or to a service. and you know to Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Prime, Amazon Prime. I'll go like, "Yeah, of course I should pay him." But. if you said to me, Trevor, pay your. teacher a subscription. I'd be like, "I. don't know. That that seems a bit. crazy." But it shouldn't be. >> All right, but now you're back to very. basic questions. I mean, really deep stuff. Who does more important work? some guy. who gets up 4:00 in the morning, looks.

at the stock market, sees what's going. on in Japan, starts selling and trading. stuff, you can make $5 million in a day, right? Doing that all that crap. >> Yeah. >> Or somebody who is a primary care doctor. who's out on the countryside helping, you know, keep young kids healthy and. alive. >> Yeah. >> We have got to this gets back to a value. system in the midst of everything else. >> Yeah. The value system is backward. Teachers do are the teachers, primary.

care doctors. You know, these are some of the most. important people in our country. >> Society stops functioning without them. >> Of course it does. Yeah. >> They enrich us. So, we got to, you know, there's so much to rethink, but that's. the kind of debate and discussion that. we need to have, which is hardly ever. having. And I'm glad to have the. opportunity to at least raise some of. these issues with you. Before I let you. go, there's one thing I wanted to ask. you because I I think it's really. important. Bernie Sanders the man.

was once Bernie Sanders the boy. And. when I look at the images of you and. I've gone back and seen like footage of. you on like a kids show talking about, you know, these ideas and these ideals. and and see you trying to inspire young. people. I'd love for you to talk to. young men who are disillusioned, young. men out there who are isolated, young. men who feel like the whole system has. failed them and they're angry and they. feel like nothing works. What What would. you say to them.

that isn't, you know, just a platitude? Cuz some people would just say to them. like, "Oh, be your best self and do your. thing." What would you say to them that. they could do today in their communities. and in their systems to try and make the. world better because they feel so angry. about what they're not getting? People. have a right to be angry. All right. The. system is broken. Just one. Let me throw out my eenth fact. here. Everything being equal, the. younger generation will have a lower. standard of living than their parents. Damn. By their own home if they're lucky.

at a later age than their parents. People have a right to be angry. Young. people have a right to be angry. Nothing wrong with being angry, but know who you're taking your anger. out on. Be smart. Hm. Okay. Okay. Just. don't lash out at anybody and everybody. And also understand what makes you happy. and what makes you feeling fulfilled. And my personal experience is that, you.

know, I always got to fight it. If I. isolate myself, I'm not out with people. Some you got to force. Oh god, do I. really? You probably do that, right? Do. I got to do the show today? Oh, please. give me an excuse. Mom, write me a note. Right. >> I mean, it happens to everybody. Yeah, >> but you know ultimately when you're out. there on the playing field doing what. you do and you're with at the end of the. day we are human beings. >> I need you. You know what? You need me. We need each other. >> Yeah. >> That's the bloody world. And and each of. us sitting back looking at the, you. know, bloody computer all day long and.

AI and all that stuff. It ain't going to. do it. I don't think, you know, I'm not. anti-technology, but you know, you got. to we got to work together. >> Mhm. >> To figure out what makes us feel better. uh as human beings. That's what I would. say. >> Yeah. You know, to that last point, I. was talking to my younger brother about. this. Obviously, we play video games. I've loved it my whole life. And my. brother said to me, "Do you think video. games is the problem for young men? They. stay at a video game screen all day.".

And I said, "No, you know what? I find. the differences, funny enough, to your. point, it's the it's the way the money. has started to work. Back in the day, you bought a video game, you owned the. video game, you played the video game, and it was done. Now, they give you the. video game for free and then they loop. you in and they start draining your. money and they start draining your money. and they and you see kids playing. Fortnite, you see kids playing Call of. Duty and they just keep draining that. money slowly and they keep you hooked in. an addictive cycle. And the worst thing,

it's I'm so glad you brought up the. point about walking together, going to. community spaces, and listening to. music, shooting basketballs together, is. because that's the thing they rob you. of. They've made it so that you cannot. afford to be part of a community. And if. we don't find ways to get back to the. idea of a park in Brooklyn, the idea of. like a, you know, a little rec center, the idea of a a basketball court that's. free for people to go and play together. in. >> Look, I played when I was a kid. I did.

play a lot of basketball. You know where. I played? >> Aha. I got you. >> You got me. I did. I admit it. I played. actually I was on a very good team. We. won the Burough Championship. Uh we played after school in a after. school program, a city of New York after. school. You know what you cost? Nothing. >> Yeah. >> All right. Right now you want your kids. to be a basketball player, you know what. you do? You know, some kind of private. thing. Cost a thousand bucks a season or. more or whatever. Every bloody thing is. commercialized. Yes. everything. >> Yeah.

>> And that's, you know, what we got to. take on. >> Well, Bernie, thank you for spending. your time with us. I appreciate you. >> Well, I and let me just say this. Thank. you for what you do. >> Uh you allow your listeners and your. viewers the opportunity to have hear a. serious discussion about serious issues. So, keep up the great work and thanks. for what you're doing. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much for watching the. episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it,

pass it on to your friends, too. Let. them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you. can chat to us. We will read through the. comments and we'll get into it. Either. way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on. What Now. And remember, we do this for. you, so we would like to hear from you. Till next time. Thank you.