Asma Khan: Stop Calling it Curry | What Now? with Trevor Noah

[music]. So I love um pig trotters. Yeah. Right. Generally any any like you can call them. pig trotters. >> Okay. Any hoof. >> hawk. >> Okay. Whatever trotter and trotter. [laughter]. >> any hoof any you know what I mean? >> Yeah. So we have pa nihari. >> Is that what right? So pig, cow, you. name it. Just like anything with the. hoof. Yeah. I'm in. I'm in the. gelatinous. I love gelatinous you know. So you can't really find much of it,

especially like Hunan, I think that's. how you pronounce a cuisine in in South. Africa. So Eugene one day says to me, he. goes, "Yo, I why don't I I can cook that. for you." Then I was like, "Shame, my. friend." He's really, [laughter]. this is like a lovely gesture, but. completely unnecessary. [laughter]. Do you know what I mean? And then he was. like, he's like, I was like, "What do. you mean?" Then Eugene said, "Oh, I. cook.". Then I went, "Ah, I understand what he. means. He means that he will put food.

together on a stove, heat it up, and. then ingest it.". >> Now, many people can cook. >> Yes. >> Most people shouldn't cook. [laughter]. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I've met many people who can cook. >> I've met many people who say, "You. should come over. I I we'll cook." Yes. >> And then when you go, there you go. >> I pray this never happens again. [laughter]. I pray this this thing you've done to me. should never be done to another person. [laughter] If I could call the Hague, I.

would. because of what? In fact, I'm shocked. that you spent time doing this. The fact. that you said we'll be busy for the next. few hours and this is what you made. Oh. my god. [music]. This is What now with Trevor Noah. [music]. I feel like the universe conspired for.

for this interview to happen today. because of what happened to me this. morning. And I feel like you might be. overqualified for this question, but you. will indulge me. >> What? >> It's not really a question. It's. actually a for a word we use a lot in. India. Calamity. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Oh, now I want to know what happened to. you. [laughter]. You use the word calamity. >> That's not That's not small. [laughter].

>> That's a loaded word. So this morning. bought groceries. Two days with the groceries. And I. thought to myself this morning, let me. make myself egg and toast, right? And a. little bit of Italian sausage. Then I tried to turn on the stove. The stove said, "Do you have the app?". I said, "No, I don't have the app.". Downloaded the app. Swear.

>> Was the stove talking or does it write. this? >> It writes there on the screen. Okay. You. see where on the oven side where it's. supposed to show you the temperature of. whatever setting you are on? >> Yeah, it said do you have the app? >> Yeah, it says download app. searching. for app. Then I downloaded the app. Then. the app said connect to put Bluetooth. and also Wi-Fi. >> for a stove. >> Stove. >> Oh wow. >> Then I was like, "Okay, maybe let's give. up on the oven. Let me go to the. induction top side of it." Put the. plate, put the pan, put the oil, switched it on, the stove said. And I.

was like, "We're on. We're in business. now." Picked my temperature. 5 seconds. later, stove went off. Kept doing that. Went on to YouTube, tried to Google. what's going on. At the end of searching. after five videos, it says for the. induction stove of that make exactly, you have to have steel bottom. >> pans. Pans. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But I looked under the pans and. they look like metal. >> This is not a visual thing. This is a. real thing because induction will not.

every pan doesn't work. So calamity is. also I think it's is too big a word for. this. This is more. >> Why were the pens there in the first. place? >> Induction doesn't Every pen doesn't work. on induction. >> But the pens were there. >> I know. I'm not disputing that, but I'm. just telling you it's not a calamity. It's a kind of you not knowing what you. were doing. >> Me or the person that bought the pants? >> Okay. [laughter] The person who bought.

the pants. >> So, are you you've come hungry? Well, I knew you were coming, but I. thought you'll bring a little tap away. or something. >> Do do people expect that of you. everywhere you? No, because I I assume. if you are a worldrenowned chef. >> who has appeared on chef's table, uh. time 100 most influential people, uh the. royal family has come to your restaurant. to participate in the making of food and. then they call you to uh the palace to. come and be honored. You would think now.

the pressure of food follows you. everywhere. >> [snorts]. >> No, >> it doesn't. >> No, because I don't allow that to come. through. Because I am more than my food. I bring to the table. the blessings and the stories of my. ancestors. >> Is this an excuse, Asma? I feel like. you're just giving us a fancy excuse for. not bringing food. [laughter]. >> I I know who Asma is. I know Asma. She'll trick you real quick. You're. like, "Where's my food?" She's like, "Let [laughter] me tell you about my. ancestors." Then you're like, "Ah, so.

there's no food. >> THEY HAVE TO DUMP AWAY. CUZ YOU SAID. BUSINESS. >> I I owe you I owe you Tupperware. I owe. you Tupperware. Come to London. I'm. staying I'm at least I don't have. induction and fancy pans. I was just. staying in a hotel. An ordinary hotel. >> that I couldn't even work out how to use. the coffee machine to make tea. >> I I Yeah, that's a calamity. [laughter]. >> I said, should I pour the water in? Did. I put the button? Oh, that's all. You. know, this might just set off the fire. alarm. So, I I had to buy the tea. Uh. because. >> I think it's a scam that they I think. they do it on purpose.

>> When did we get here? when switching on. an oven and making a coffee and and and. has become so technical and. >> you know you know what it is. It's. because somebody tricked us into. believing that all things need to be. >> updated in terms of their technology. >> But there's no real reason for this. >> Your fridge doesn't need to be connected. to the internet. That's not a thing. Your microwave does not need to be. connected to the internet. These are. things that were working just fine. >> There there is no benefit to them being. connected to people like oh but then. your fridge knows when it's empty. You.

know who also knows when your fridge is. empty? You. [laughter] You don't need. the internet to know that your fridge is. so empty. True. That is so true. >> We just we've just we've just added it's. almost like a layer of difficulty. >> Yeah. But it's it's also it's also a. myth of progress. I I find. >> right sometime sometimes what we do in. society is we go in order to prove that. we're moving forward, >> we have to add complications and layers. on top of something when the simplest. execution of it was actually the best. Sometimes the real way to move forwards.

is to go like as far back as possible. >> and then you find like the real sort of. like the evolutions or the progresses. that have been forgotten. I would even. >> becoming more and more anti- technology. as you grow older. What happened to No, no, no. I'm pro technology. I'm 100% pro. having shoelaces on your shoes. >> No, no. I'm [laughter]. analog. >> Let me tell you, I'm 100% pro. technology. >> Yes. >> That's why I don't like technology in. the wrong places. That's I think that's. a very valid point because where. technology is used in areas where it's.

it's not required. >> I think that technology has done amazing. things and you know lives are saved. You. know you you can do a lot with it. But I. completely agree with you that this is. being used literally like a blanket on. everything. >> Yes. And it's almost like sometimes I. feel when I struggle with things that. you know the everything has been updated. and you know gone through this you know. technological uh you know process maybe. I need to do it I need to go into some.

machine and get zapped so I know what. the hell is happening [laughter] because. you know it's you know at 57 I never saw. a computer till I was in my early 20s. So I I'm that uh generation. We had the. year I left India is when we first got. color television and we used to get just. state television for a few hours. >> Yeah. >> And uh. >> and I feel I'm the most blessed. generation without technology and also. without getting into trouble because no.

one could then text my mother and say is. your daughter at school? I've just seen. her on a motorbike with this guy. I know. but nobody could say anything to her. mom. But I I I feel that technology is. great, but I feel that this my. generation is so blessed because we. lived a real life and now no one can cuz. you're constantly watched, you're. scrutinized, you're analyzed, you and we. live in images in front of us constantly. feeling that understanding that this may.

be filtered, it may be AI, but feeling. inadequate. >> because you're comparing yourself to. something That's not real. And then you. you left in that doubt. Like I watch. like an obsessive person these cats. dancing. I know it's AI. I know it's AI, but I'm I'm dying to figure out how to. do it so I can make my cat dance in a. video. >> But I know and but this is like fun of. it, you know, that there's this kind of. mythology that you see, you know, cat is. like grooving and dancing. >> I just obsessed with it. I have like. endless videos of that.

>> But yeah, I but I just feel that, you. know, there's a space for everything. All the lines are being blurred in. everything. >> I I feel like you exist in. one of the last bastions for real, >> right? >> Because when I when I was thinking of. this conversation, I was thinking of who. you are. As Makana's like there's so. many places to try and position you, but. you exist, you spill over into more than. one space, which is which is what I. think I've I've always loved about you. as a person. You're so dynamic. You. know, you can say Asma Khan from chef's.

table. That's how a lot of people go. Oh. yes, Chef's Table. I've watched Chef's. Table and it's it's it's like art that. talks about food and then it talks about. culture and then it brings you into a. world and and and if people know you. from there, they'll know one side of. you. There are some people who will know. you from your restaurant in England and. they'll go, "Oh, I've been there. It's. it's one of the most amazing places and. the and the food and the stories in the. kitchen and and and the you know, everything that goes into preparing this. this feast. >> is how I know you." And then I'm sure.

there's some people who know you back. from India. There's some people who know. you just from England from getting your. PhD. There's some people who you you. you're this person who's so complex and. so broad. And I feel like you have to be. like that because of your life. You're. like a product of your life. Does that. make sense? >> Absolutely. It makes sense. And I mean. you've explained it by then and I could. have tried to explain to someone else. why I am uh this person who. I see myself always uh you know there's.

this kind of in Sufi Islam there's a lot. of talk about this journey of the river. into the ocean that is you know the. ultimate thing but it's also what we say. that is when you reach fulfillment as. well and you reach that goal in life. >> and as a river I've I've always seen. myself as as a force of. And I moisten the earth around me and I. will never see the harvest that grows. after I move on. And I break the the. bricks and the stones that block me and.

that block everybody. My color of skin, my name, my accent, my fabric that I. wear. >> So I have to be more than one kind of. thing because it's not just that we. don't have a seat on the table. There are multiple reasons why you don't. have a seat on the table. >> I need, you know, a lot of people after. chef's table told me, "Oh, wow. You. broke the glass ceiling." He was the. first British chef on Chef's table. >> But Bill underneath that is very.

nuanced. I'm layered. I have lots of. other things that I am. >> But one thing I felt very strongly and I. would tell people that I am not standing. in some glass ceiling with glass around. me. I want to bring the edifice down. I. want to break every door and every. window that keeps out people like me, not just women, men and women who are. excluded from having a seat on the. table, who are excluded. And for that I had to use dig deep. inside who I am. Mhm.

>> So from my spirituality to my education. to being discriminated as a child and. being made to feel unwanted, unloved, uh surplus in a family, I clawed myself out of that to victory. And it's not that it's easy. I run a. different race from a white person, a. white man. I run a different race from a. white woman.

because I in my race I carry cultural. baggage, my choice. But I have to go. through fire every time to prove. >> that I'm good enough. But what happens is I come out. glistening like gold. [sighs]. I know where I need to go. And this is. probably why it helps that at different. times I can dig deep into something I. learned as a lawyer,

my you know time in India, understanding. the importance of solidarity between. women. >> So it's not that there's one thing that. I can lean on. I go through storms using. different techniques because in the end. I need to get to shore. My mom would. respond to this by saying, "Amen.". [laughter]. >> No, 100%. This is like literally. there are so many things you're saying. >> that I feel like I've experienced or.

felt through many women in my life like. you know my my grandmother, my mom, etc. It's it's it's a powerful and beautiful. message and it's a vi but you know if if. if I if I could think of where I'd hope. to get to in in this conversation is. I'd love for people to see how you came. to be like all all the all the the. pieces of the stained glass window that. ended up making us makan the way the way. we know you today because you you you. throw it away so flippantly but imagine.

you're sitting down with one of the most. accomplished chefs in the world. >> who casually then says is my time as a. lawyer. Then you're like, "Yeah." Do do. you get what I'm saying? >> Also, don't forget the coffee machine. >> The coffee machine didn't work, but I. don't know if that was an accolade, Eugene. That was a that was a that's. >> that's one of her trials and. tribulations. [laughter]. >> One of the many things Asma has. challenged by. >> Yes. One of the things. But like but but. let's let's go backwards through your. life because I I want to understand how.

you got to this place because this place. seems. so obvious now. >> like many people's stories do you know. if I said to people Asma Khan has one of. the most successful restaurants in the. world it's based in London she has a. kitchen that is staffed by women she. earns the same as everybody who works in. her kitchen people just be like, "Oh, yeah. Well, this makes sense cuz look at. her. She's a force of nature. She's. Yeah, but but where did it all begin?

So, let let's go to the beginning. Where. where where would you say is the is the. most formative moment that starts your. life?" I remember this so clearly. I. remember. when my brother was born who was 3 years. older than me. So, I was three. >> Okay. And the everybody came because you. know then you don't have a kind of. Facebook text saying oh this is my baby. just arrived. Uh this is 1972 and people. came and didn't believe that I had a.

brother because it you know after the. two girls the boy was born the heir to. the family. >> name and I remember at that time being. confused why everyone called me a liar. >> because my mother did not celebrate. My parents did not light the house up or. distribute sweets, which is a tradition. in our culture. You know, when a boy is. born, a lot of lot of sweets are given. out. I didn't know that. Okay. >> Yeah. And often when a girl is born, nothing happens. No fireworks, no no no. kind of celebration because it's like.

>> it's almost like a death because the. family has now got another burden. >> The girl is not. >> so celebrated. I remember from then on that nobody. believed me because nothing happened. And I think that that and the way that. my sister stood by me really transform. things because we are very obsessed. about color and I was dark-kinned. Uh I.

was fat but I loved cricket. I played on. the streets with the street children. My. parents ignored that. My father would. come and ask me did you get out? I hope. you beat those boys you I hope you did. well and. but would not say it openly. If he saw. me on the street and drove past, he. ignored me so that he didn't have to. acknowledge that he saw his daughter. playing on the street, street cricket. But when people would tell me that I was. fat and ugly in my extended family and.

that nothing, you know, good would. happen, that no one would marry me, which was the like the biggest thing. they can say. My sister, who everybody. loved, my sister still bloody looks. younger than me. She's a year and a half. older than me. She's a rock star. She. looked she still looks like a model. Beautiful girl, fair, long hair. She was. the princess in the family. And. everybody adored her. Everybody loved. her. I I don't think many people loved. me. And she would hold my hand in the.

darkness away from everybody and tell. me, "Asma, you're the warrior princess. When you speak, the earth will shake. One day the world will know who you are. I believed her. I believed her because. everybody who loved her thought she was. great. >> Mhm. >> But that person believed in me. And this. is why at a very young age, I realized. one thing. If you speak up and you tell. someone in the darkness, you don't need. to be brave to speak up. Say it in. silence. Do something. My sister by.

telling me I was the warrior princess. Today I am the warrior princess but it's. because of her. These are the transformation things that. happened when I was very young. And I. realized that my mother and father were. not discriminating between me and my. brother, between my me and my sister. Even though I know that behind my back. and sometimes in my hearing, I could. hear people saying, "What's going to. happen to her? She's a liability." That. must have been so hard though. >> Like you're growing up in a world where. because when.

>> you know I think we take for granted how. when you're a child, you're just a. child. >> You're just being you. >> That's all you are. >> That's all you are. and that's all. you've ever been. >> You know, when you're an adult, you get. to look back on yourself as a child. >> and then try and make sense of these. things. Think about your parents. Think. about your life. You try and reinterpret. the experiences that you had. But I'm. trying to imagine you as a child. listening to people talking about you as. if you are you, you know, like a like a.

like a factory reject in a family. >> Yeah. And like a liability. And the. thing is that. I it was you know both sets of. grandparents and and you know elderly. aunts and things. So I was loved by some. but the authorities you know the big. figures never kind of understood. >> It's still very raw. I few years ago I. wrote a book during over co called Amu. uh you know all the recipes I learned. from my mother.

>> We went through the family archives. My. grandfather is a photographer. I never. remember seeing a photograph of me and. my mother, but I thought, you know, maybe, you know, it never got developed. We used to do it in this dark room. >> We went through the entire archive and I. I remember him saying, "Aspa, not you, cuz you'll spoil the picture.". >> And there was no picture of my mother. and me. But my mother went to a wedding. She was 6 months pregnant and someone. photographed her because you know how. they say in our culture, "Oh, you look.

like you're having a boy. You look like. you're having a girl." depending on the. shape of the stomach. >> Oh, in South Africa is your size of your. nose. [laughter]. >> He's No, he's being serious. >> He is being serious. >> Oh my god, I love this. His nose is. [laughter] like, >> "Oh, it's a boy.". >> Oh god, this is the funniest thing. No, we we have this thing about shape of. stomach. So, the photographer took a. picture of my mother pregnant with me. So, in the introduction, I used the. picture of my pregnant mother because I. know it's her and me. >> in the womb. >> I am there. And at some point the the.

publisher who was really lovely and my. you know book editor was saying we can. just do an image. I said when that image. didn't exist. >> Mhm. >> Don't don't do this because I'll always. know it's fake. [clears throat]. >> I don't do that. I'll I carry the scars. And it's not that the scars with all the. success, you know, that I've had, you. know, I'm grateful for that with all the. accolades.

No one sees the scars. Everybody has met. me when I became famous, >> right? >> No one met me when I was nothing. >> But the scars, they still stay. >> and they hurt. They still hurt. So that. picture of my mother and me and when. they put that book together, that's my. favorite picture. my mother, you know, looking embarrassed, you know, with a, you know, all dressed up in a wedding. with me in the womb. And that's when I. was completely convinced about one.

thing. That's my original home. For all. of us, the womb of our mother is our. real home. Now, when people call each. other immigrants, migrants, you know, you know, people, the day you leave your. mother's womb, we're all migrants. Mhm. >> And then after that we are lost. >> Then you're out. You're on your own. >> Yeah. We we then we are away. They are. drift. >> It's funny how people use immigrant and. migrant but then depending on where.

you're from and the color of your skin. then they say expats. >> Oh yes. >> Have you ever noticed that? >> Yeah. Expat. Because expat expats are. immigrants. >> But I mean let's be honest you everyone. wants to be an expat. Nobody wants to be. an immigrant. And if you're planning to. go somewhere else, you're a nomad. >> Ah, you're a nomad. Digital nomad. >> Not here for long, guys. >> I'm a nomad. >> I'm a nomad. >> I'm a nomad. I'm a digital no. Are you. an immigrant? Uh-uh. [laughter] Uh-uh. Please, please, please. I'm a nomad. >> Yeah. And if you if you're there for. long enough.

>> Yes. >> And you're acceptable. You're. naturalized. >> You're natural, my friend. >> It's only natural. But it's. >> Wow. you you know you know what's so. important about what you're saying is I. think a lot of people. will. feel the wounds that they felt growing. up or experienced in their life as they. were being formed. If they're lucky, they'll achieve a. modicum of success or they'll find.

themselves in a new place in life that. doesn't look like where they came from. [snorts]. and then they feel guilty voicing that. they still have pain or hurt or do you. get what I'm saying? >> Absolutely. >> And then but then what happens is. they'll they'll act out their pain, I. find. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think in life. if you are hurt or if you're in pain or. if you have suffered or you you know. you've gone through traumatic things. when you're growing up if you're unable. to voice those things. I feel like you. will act them out whether you like it or.

not. And then people wonder why someone. who's famous or rich or powerful you're. like why is this person such an [ __ ]. Why are they being like this? I I think. it's because they can't say their pain. >> Yeah, you're right. I think it's. vocabulary. >> I think when you're younger, your. vocabulary is acting out. That's all you. can do. Babies after they're born. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> When they're when they're hungry, they. cry. When they can't sleep, they cry, you know. So, I think as you get older, but I also think when you. >> there's something strange that happened.

to me when I reached the age of what my. dad was at the time that my parents. divorced. I looked at their divorce. differently. I looked at a man who. wanted to do something else and ended up. doing another thing. That's. >> you know I I I didn't look at a person. who could who didn't want. responsibility. I looked at a guy who. pushed away his happiness for so long. and took on respons that he didn't want. and when he s suddenly decided to stand. up for himself he had all of these. people around him that needed him and he. chose not to be there because he wanted.

to put himself ahead. And your story so. much reminds me of my aunt cuz my my my. dad's uh sister was the only girl in the. family and she had four brothers and. every time something would go wrong. their wives, our moms would go tell her. and no one cared about her story. >> Oh, >> no one ever said, "How's auntie doing?". She would she would make turns every. time cuz she used to sell vegetables. So. she would knock off from the from the. from the rank in town. Then she would. make turns in every house to drop off a.

packet of something, onions, tomatoes, and she would sit around for a small. chat with the kids. Then afterwards, she. would sit around with the wives and ask, >> "How's my brother? Is he behaving?". [laughter]. >> Then she would, the third turn would be. her going to speak to the said brother. to say, "But I think what you're doing. is wrong." Then after she would just cut. a lonely figure going to the next. because we lived almost in close. proximity to each other. But no one ever. asked my aunt how she was feeling and.

how she was doing. And now that you. speak like this, I'm thinking. she was playing cricket with the boys. and winning and no one pulled her to the. side and said, "You're doing great." And. said it in public even. >> Yeah. I It's just the thing I the reason. I speak and the reason why I'm unafraid. And we were discussing this before you. joined uh uh the table is that I I am. here to represent.

first women in their graves. the. unloved, the unwanted, those that never. got appreciated, who never were told. that this ka that you made was beautiful. or that like your aunt that you know. every time you came for vegetables, >> it gave something extra to my table or. that there was this kindness in you. asking me how I am because you know my. husband didn't have time to ask me how I. am. >> We don't say these things to the women. We also don't say it to men, but I think.

that women particularly. because we make it we make it look like. effortless, people think it's valueless. >> because we because we make it look. effortless. >> Yeah. They think this it's valueless. because we don't, you know, I don't sit. here and say, you know, I'm this I did for you because. now you're going to have this extra dish. and you know, I've I've taken half an. hour out of my time. Instead of washing. my hair, I'm sitting here talking to. you. Women don't do this. Especially.

women of that generation don't do it. >> So in that silent sacrifices that so. many women have made. there is this hollowess in the. storytelling. Every day I live one day less. All of us. do. I try to tell the story. of myself but I also try to tell the. stories of all women because in that. space. >> where they never said anything.

my voice echoes. >> every time I come back to this. because I know the next dawn is not. guaranteed to me and I want to use I. want to be useful when that time comes. and I'm submerged in the ocean. I want. to look back and see greenery and. moisture and that there is no barriers. that I managed to break it. Even it. meant with my body. >> Wait, asma.

>> Yeah. >> You want to be buried in the ocean? >> No. No. That I don't want to. I'm scared. of water. >> Okay. >> I was scared of water. >> Buried there cuz how am I going to visit. you? >> No, no, no, no, no. I'm I'm scared of. water. I. >> Wait, why are you scared of water? >> Because I don't know how to swim. >> Oh, okay. That makes sense. >> I I grew up Do you all know how to swim? I do. >> Yes, I can swim to save my life. >> Okay. But did you learn late in life? >> I did. I did. Yeah, I learned. So, my. mom my mom tried to teach me how to swim. by pushing me into a pool. >> Hey, >> and then [laughter]. all that happened was I I basically.

almost drowned and then someone had to. come in and save me. >> Wait, hold on. >> Was this a home pool or a public pool? >> It was a home pool. >> So, it was always there. >> No, no, not in my house. Not in my. house. So, at someone's house. So we. were at a we we went to a a prayer. meeting like you know you'd move from. house to house right so the church you'd. have prayer meetings and each week you'd. be at a different person's home. >> and she was like today the day. >> so we're at we're at a prayer meeting it. was at the Voss family right so we're at.

the Voss family's house and we're all in. the backyard. >> he's making up the name it sounds like. >> no no it's I remember I remember. [laughter] like you you it's such a. specific thing to me. >> wow. >> and so we're in the backyard and. everyone's having a good time now I used. to love swimming pools I still do, but I. couldn't swim. So, what I would do is I. would get in the pool and then I would. hold the edge and I would just go I. would just go around the side. Go around. the side. Go around the side. That's. all. Then when I get to the shallow end, I'd bounce. >> Bounce. Pretend you're swimming. Bounce. Pretend I'm swimming. I do this. >> It's good when you're a child. I still.

embarrassing. It is [laughter]. the bouncing. >> So then what happened? >> So then I was outside the pool. >> We're standing on the edge. I forget how. this even happened. people talking about. I wish it was a dropkick. Then it was. like talking swimming not swimming. whatever whatever. and then someone said someone said. Trevor can you swim and I said no I. can't swim he said oh how can you not. swim and said oh no you know story then.

he says then I said I haven't learned. then he said oh learn you don't need to. learn my dad just threw me in the pool. and then I and then I swam. >> and then my mom laughed and then she. pushed me in the pool. >> cuz she was like oh ah I've been. slacking as a parent and then she pushed. me into the And then I flew in and then. it was deep end. So I was down. >> And it's hard to explain to swimmers how. hard it is when you're in water and you. can't swim. Happened to me. >> Your body just doesn't know. It doesn't.

exist. You just go to the bottom. >> and you make the mistake of gasping. >> So you and then and then water goes in, water goes, water goes in. And then I. remember looking up. >> You can see you can see up through the. surface of the water. You're there. You're there. You're there. >> And then eventually Mr. The Vos jumped. in clothing and everything jumped. straight in and then he came and he. fetched me. And then my mom was laughing. hard. She thought it was she genuinely. thought it was the funniest thing ever. And then I was like, "You. [laughter].

kill me." Then she's like, "Why didn't. you swim?" AND I WAS LIKE, [laughter]. "THAT'S NOT.". And then um the guy who said my dad. pushed me, he was like, "That's not what. I meant. I'M SORRY." [laughter]. AH, so so then I decided. >> that I would learn [laughter]. how to swim for myself and I I I just. did it myself. One, it was actually my. cousin who taught me. My cousin she she she's a good swimmer. and then she was like, "Okay, just do we. went through all the different strokes,

you know, it was like breast stroke, freestyle." She's like, "You got to one. of them has to work.". >> Oh, so yeah. >> And then she was like, "Try this, try. this, try this, try this, and then one I. could like pick up so I can swim to save. my life." My learning to swim experience. was more traumatic than yours actually. and actually very dangerous. >> What did you do? >> Because we had just moved into this new. neighborhood and then there was a place. where it was a dam almost. So whenever. it would rain the water would rise. higher and everyone would go there after. school. But the thing was everyone would.

talk about it at school. So if you. haven't been there, you're a loser. >> So the conversation would start about. something something and it would end up. with a dam. >> Always got to the dam. >> Always got to the dam. So one day after. school I was like I have to see what. this dam is all about. But I still. remember you know how fresh water smells. differently from swimming pool water and. then we all went there after school. shorts on small t-shirt cuz you know. after school you play with your old. clothes. >> Yeah. >> That are not so fancy. I remember we. went there then we stood there and then. everyone jumped in because they had been.

there before. Some people were swinging. from branches, jumping in. And I. remember to myself thinking, yo, if I. don't go into this water, I can't show my face at school tomorrow, bro. >> Yes. >> But what no one tells you about a dam is. it's gradually getting deep. >> So, it's not just a hole. >> So, I I remember the feeling of sand, river sand under my feet and going and. the smell and the dragon flies and the. and and the next thing you know, feet. are not touching the ground anymore. [clears throat] It drops off suddenly.

>> and then the advice starts [laughter]. just. [laughter]. it's it's the advice as the water hits. the [laughter] the ear then alternating. between the advice and the and the. advice [laughter]. and the advice and the advice and then. >> after a while it's too far to go back. it's too far to go forward. >> Yeah. >> Then I decide to myself this is not my. day. I've got an exam next week. My mom.

wants me to wash the dishes cuz I left. without washing dishes cuz I just. dropped off my school bag and I went. home and said, "I'm not going to die. now. This is not how it's going to end.". >> Obligation pulled you out. >> Obligation and responsibility pulled cuz. I thought if if I die, my mom would come. fetch me. >> and she would embarrass me in front of. all the sp. but I I thought let me there's nothing. that I'm doing now that can save my life. except for listening to this advice. And. I listened to the advice and the. coaching. Kick, kick, pal, pal, pal,

pal. And I kept on doing that. And the. next thing you know, I was staying over. ways. >> 100%. I was staying up. I was staying. up. >> Confidence grew. And then I was out to. the shallow side. And then I just. remember being, you know, hugged by. everyone and thinking. >> you're a hero. >> I I was. >> I love this. The fact he didn't want to. die because he was just worried about. what his mother would. just responsibility through. >> I've gotten so many. It says something. about African mothers, too. [laughter]. >> I just thought she had powers to fetch. me. She would come and fetch. >> Oh my god, this is like terrible.

>> And then the next day, who said you. [laughter] can drown? Who said you can. drown? Are you drowning? Who said you. can die? [laughter]. Did I say you can die? Did I say you can. die when when I go home? Mom, but I'm. dead. Hey. Hey. [laughter]. You think you're going to die here. without my permission? Go. Did you wash. the dishes? [laughter]. >> Oh, didn't wash the dish. Are you blo. ARE YOU BLOATING? WHY ARE YOU WHO SAID. YOU CAN BLOAT [laughter].

ON MY WATCH? NEVER MIND. >> YEAH. African mother is the Asian. mothers too. Same kind of. >> same same vibe. >> Same same vibe. >> So wait, so I mean obviously. most people don't understand your your. access to pools determines or bodies of. water determines your ability to swim. So you were growing where were you. growing up? I was growing up in Kolkata. and the thing is that you know in our. tradition we don't swim because you've. got to wear a swimming costume. >> How how do you swim? You can't go in. shorts and a t-shirt you know like.

>> Oh wow. >> So uh it's not that it there were some. sorry for because it's revealing. >> It's revealing. >> Okay. Okay. Got it. >> And uh also it was just like a lot of. strange men around and so I never even. thought that I had to learn how to swim. because it was like things you don't do. I have cousins who swim and you know. like my niece swims and a lot of people. swim now but even at my time in the 80s. in Kolkata. >> you know all we had a swimming team in. school.

but because of the kind of heritage I. came from it was a bigger issue and a. challenge. >> okay. >> and of all the battles that I was. fighting drowning in a dam was not. something I was worried about. >> so. I I always from a very young age you I. will not go to every battle I'm invited. to. [laughter] So I, you know, and I I I. will pick I'll pick the battle. >> that I know I'll win as well. >> Okay. >> So why go in and swim in water and drown.

because I'm scared of water. So I picked. the other battles that I had to fight. Like you know, I was the first girl in. my mother's entire, you know, my. generation who went to college. >> Nobody went to college. I mean the. reason I went I mean I make it sound. more heroic. Nobody married me cuz by 18. everybody got married but at 18 nobody. married me. So then I told my mom I. can't just stay at home. >> So if you so if you were married. education was not out of the question at. that age. >> At that age you know at 18 you got. married and you went off. I mean like my.

sister went on and studied after her. marriage. Okay. >> So some people did choose to do that but. at 18 you got married. >> because that that was it. So everybody's. marriage was arranged uh you know and. arranged marriage is different from. forced marriage. Okay. I can you explain. the difference. >> type of marriage. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> This that one. you've come to the right place. >> Yes. Yes. So now I need to explain. arranged and forced marriage. Arranged. marriage is a bit like being on Tinder. but all your family involved.

>> So they all choose. So it's not your. choice. >> and everybody is deciding. So you marry. and they look at things like you know. compatibility you know this person you. know likes certain things went to the. same educa you same school education. speaks the lang same language likes the. same kind of stuff and there are middle. people aunties aunties who are a class. act because they are interfering prying. >> meddling people but they also arrange.

marriages because they will ask you. things like. >> so tell me what music do you listen to. Do you smoke? Have you ever tried to. smoke? So they are the ones who ask. these questions and then they will carry. news about you to other people. But. because I was seen as trouble from a. very young age cuz people felt even. though I wasn't like defiant and doing. crazy things but everyone saw me as. someone who. wasn't broken by the system that they. had not overcome that I was resilient. I.

think they could see it. I radiated that. at a very young age. I did not I was. joyous and I I loved I play love playing. the guitar. I wrote poetry. I played. Shakespeare. I you know I had I loved. playing cricket and I did things that. you know were unusual. I had a joy but I. had gratitude every day. For me I was. grateful I lived. >> I was so grateful every sunrise I would. say yeah I have another day. I'm going.

to do something exciting today. So I. think that this kind of signal to others. that you know she may be troubled. So I. come from a royal family. So ideally I. should have married in a royal family. >> Wait, wait, wait. You can't just say. that and move on. >> Yeah. Uh my both my father's family and. mother's family both royal family. >> Okay. And my. >> but but but help help us understand. because you know as you know from South. Africa sometimes people will be from. royal bloodlines but we mean like chiefs.

and clans and it doesn't mean that they. live in a palace. So when you say royal. family what what does that mean? >> Well our palace I should have lived in. but it's a crumbling edifice. >> Okay. >> So we have a palace and we have a. fortress. >> Got it. >> Uh but we're not like you know we don't. go back generations of royalty. So maybe. only 200 years of you know become. becoming royal. Before that we were. thieves. >> Oh, isn't that all royals? >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> No, I'm being for real though. >> Which royals just started as royals?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So we. >> we still need a visit to the UK. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Let's not that diamond. [laughter]. >> Oh, but but let's be honest now. Which. royals did not start as thieves? We now. we're going to act like you just you. were just born and ordained a royal. Yeah. No, >> if you want to be a royal, you've got to. steal enough. >> for long enough. >> that you become so powerful that you. then. you're royal. >> You declare that you're royal and then. your lineage starts to now clean it up.

>> So [clears throat] like you know our. ancestors claimed that they were. descendant from the sun. >> There you go. >> And you know descend from sun and moon. and you know basically so but basically. we were thugs. We used to loot caravans. the caravans going across the desert. >> Wow. >> We looted caravans. >> part of your heritage. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that's why we were thugs. and we then uh basically the king. >> yeah that's a separate thing as well but. we were not that we uh we stole we just. stole uh didn't take money to and. essentially then we were made royals and.

quietened down and given land a lot of. land and we became we were very rich. after that but. >> they would have wanted me to marry in. that same kind of I don't want to use. the word lightly but it's class. >> they wanted me to marry in that same. kind of level of you you know of the. other families that you know my sister. had got married to or other cousins. >> that ain't happening with me because. everybody who is a feudal and has a. feudal son I would beat at cricket so.

and I would probably beat at boxing too. I would beat at everything and. >> it sounds like you were fierce at. cricket the way you talk about how much. you play. >> cricket I was so embarrassed because. recently I met a met in a random place. this guy was like you know I was your. neighbor I used to play cricket with you. And then suddenly, my bad luck. You know. that times when the room gets quiet? He. said, "And you hit me with a cricket. bat." [laughter] And then suddenly I was. like, "Oh my god, I remember him. I. remember hitting him with a cricket.". >> You remember him? >> Yeah. I remember hit him on hit him on. purpose or. >> Yeah. Why do you do not accidentally hit.

people with cricket bats? >> You know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. I I'm giving the benefit of the. doubts. >> No, no, no, no. It was. >> as a person who was pushed in the pool. Yes. You should know intention versus. [laughter]. Yeah. So I I did hit him. Uh because he. was cheating. And. >> how was he cheating? >> He told me I was out. >> Oh. >> And I wasn't out and we didn't have. because nobody wants to be an empire. When street ticket it's a kind of it's. mob rule. They all declare that you're. out. >> But when the when the bowler says you're.

out then kind of too many people were. saying that I was out. I was the only. girl in the whole gang. >> But did did he how did you cuz I want to. know what did you hit him? I want to. know which. >> I hit him because I was not out. No, also [laughter] I also the bat was mine. And I took the bat home. >> Damn. Asma was out here running these. cricket streets. >> Yeah. So I. >> did you play in those? So when I went to. India, I saw like. >> huge fields where there's just. >> No, we didn't play in the field. >> There's like a 100 cricket games. happening at the same time. >> and that's that's the great this is this.

is our religion. Cricket is a obsession. in India. No, we played on the street. and then we had some of the string. stopping cars and then we would all. clear out. So we played just outside our. house but on the street. >> Yeah. And then because in the 80s we had. a Marxist government running Bengal. So. there were very frequent strikes you. know there was a lot of labor uh unrest. at that time. >> So then we would go onto the main street. because there were no cars and because. mobs were burning cars that were going. around we knew no car was on the street. Then we played on a big road.

>> and then we could have like a lot of. space. >> That was your load. >> Yeah. Otherwise we had we used to just. play on a narrow road outside my house. >> What was your forte? Bowling or batting? >> Bowling. Bowling. I can tell. >> bowling. >> Why did you assume bowling? >> Fears. >> Oh, okay. >> I was to bowl. But the thing is that. Yeah. So, I was so embarrassed and. everybody turned around. >> and I was just tired of embarrassment. because I was so apologetic to him. I. apologized like, you know, 40 50 years. ago I hit him and I told him I was.

>> No, no, I don't think so hard. He did. cry, but it wasn't that hard. >> It was more more the humiliation. >> You can tell how much you've changed. You you you've gone the opposite way cuz. you go the guy says you hit me with a. cricket bat and then you're like I. apologize. I apologize. I feel like in. that situation you go someone goes you. hit me with a cricket bat and you go do. you want me to do it again? [laughter]. Shut up. Do you want me to do it again? >> Bringing this up in 40 years later. [laughter]. >> Do you want me to do it again? >> No, but it was very embarrassing and.

because I couldn't recognize him. He. kept saying, "Do you recognize me? Do. you recognize me?" And you know how this. >> that means you hit him hard. If he. remembers 40 years later, you you did a. good one. >> Yeah. So, and no, I couldn't. I was too. embarrassed. I said, "No, I can't.". >> Did you remember at the beginning? >> No, I didn't remember. I. >> You know, people change in 40 years. So, I want to recognize him. >> But then he told me, "But you hit me. with a bad immediately who he was. I. knew his name. I knew the match. I knew. exactly where we were. And I remember. hitting him.". >> Yeah. I'm not proud of this. I am very.

embarrassed that I hit people when I was. but then in cricket that's how problem. is when you when you're very young it. and you play street cricket these things. happen but they're not very frequent so. I I think I think we need more of those. things you know we we were talking to um. Jonathan hates on the podcast a while. ago but like in general Eugene and I. talk about this I talk about it with my. friends I think there's a shortage of. that in the world today and I don't mean. it in like an old man like in my day.

you're used to no I think I think it was. great that we used to live in a world. where kids would go outside, have their. own conflicts, have their own. resolutions, have their own stories, have but also you define your own world. without your parents. >> Do do you get what I'm saying? You. define your own world without an. authority figure that's looming over. you. I think now we're like growing a. generation of people who are always. looking to something and not not just. doing this. Yeah. >> Just what is this conversation? What is. this disagreement? What is this lesson.

that you're learning? You're swimming. That's something that's formed you as. Eugene, >> you know, whether you whether you like. it or not. And I I I always wonder what. would happen to people when their whole. lives have been defined by the moments. that they had with their parents because. they never had moments alone. essentially. >> Yeah. >> Like I I love that. I love that kids. used to do that. I I wish more kids. would do that. Go outside, get hit with. a cricket. >> It's a very different world. And the. thing is you can see this when the. moment there is a crisis and it's so. much worse after co you know I run a. restaurant in I41 staff.

>> um. >> the moment there's a crisis. >> the fear and the panic there is no. attempt like you know you know advice. that you know use your arms your legs. get out. >> because the thing is that when you have. been in a difficult situation. >> and you overcome. there is a memory it's in your DNA A you. now remember. >> it alters your DNA. >> Yeah. It that you did it that you got. out of it. And whenever I've had.

terrible things happen to me and the. success is a it's a veneer that hides. behind. a lot of battles that I'm I still have. to fight. >> which no one else has to who's in my. position but I have to. I worry about. this younger generation for whom you. know challenge is something that is so. different from what we faced you know.

it's. >> it's not that drowning moment it's not. that panic it's not that and you worry. and you and I've spent a lot of times. with young people now telling them that. you are the future leaders. >> you must believe in yourself if you do. not believe in yourself no one will. believe in you. >> and As a leader, you must be willing to. go out first. When you go into battle, you carry that sword. And maybe it's. because I come from this ancient warrior.

uh tribe, but I remember this as a child. always. My father would always say, you. know, you've got to stand up. You've got. to believe. >> because most of the battle is won in. your head. >> Mhm. Because otherwise. you're lost. If you have to if you don't. back yourself, no one will back you. >> Yeah. And why should they? >> Yeah. Absolutely. But there's a whole. generation now who doesn't think that. this is a thing that you know that you.

back yourself. And it's I I worry I worry a lot. But. I'm also optimistic because I hope that. they grow a backbone. They grow. resilience in their souls. and they stand up for justice and right. and equality. Don't press anything. [music] We've got more. What now? After. this. Pretty much every brand offers rewards. these days, but let's be honest, most of.

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the wallets app on iPhone today. Subject. to credit approval. Apple Card is issued. by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City. branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. >> [music]. >> I feel like young people today, like the. younger generation, they may have been shielded on an. interpersonal level a little bit more, but I think they're facing like a more. systemic issue than we were in a way.

And I could be wrong about this, but but. I find. >> I I think it like Gen Z and and that. young generation, I think they were the. first ones, for instance, >> to sort of break the internet and how we. see it. If you if you look at how they. use Instagram and how older people use. Instagram, they were like, "We don't. care about the artifice. We're not going. to try and make this fake. We're not. going to try and make it beautiful. We're not going to try and invent a. world that doesn't exist. We'll show you. the messy. We'll show you the gritty. This was the picture. This was the the. realest moment that existed." Um like. look at the kids now booing AI.

>> Yeah. >> You know all these commencement speeches. that are taking place and you've got. these CEOs and everything coming to a. college and being like, "Let me tell you. how your life will turn." And then as. soon as they mention AI, >> yeah, >> these kids start booing them. >> To me, that's amazing because I don't. know about you, but I feel like our. generation wouldn't have booed. >> the the AI institutional thing, >> but we were dealing with like. interpersonal scuffles and family and. life and friends, you know what I mean?

We were almost dealing with like the the. the um the micro. >> and they're dealing with the macro, I. feel like. And so maybe they'll be I. don't know I don't want to use the the. use the word weaker but maybe they'll be. a little less resilient than we are in. some interpersonal instances but I think. on a societal level the younger. generation is is is coming through with. a fierceness that I wish we had. sometimes to be honest. >> I also think um us not I'll speak for. our generation growing up the way we did.

our parents were not around because they. couldn't be around. >> Yeah that's true. So that's that's one. thing and what I've noticed is how we. behaved was totally influenced by what. we had. So if your parent goes to work. then at the end of the month in 30 days. they get a salary. That salary gets to. do whatever needs to be done so that. life can go on. You I understood from a. very early age that soon time will come. for me to find a job. >> and be that person. So every moment.

after school was a good time with my. friends cuz I knew it wasn't promised. It wasn't I didn't see any other 25 year. olds having a good time with us at the. dam. So I knew that when you get older. you're going to have to dress a certain. way, get a job, have responsibility, stay in the back room of your house. until you meet someone and then afford a. house of your own. So there was always. that moment of I have to enjoy this. I. have to play soccer after school. I have. to go play with my friends. We have to. go hunt for birds. We have to go learn. how to swim. We have to share one BMX.

bicycle amongst the 10 of us and one. soccer ball. So the other one gets. responsibility with their Christmas. monies. You know when the other one gets. a BMX, the other one gets a ball, the. other one gets a this, the other one. So. we had this. >> communal, we were bonded by our trauma. because we saw what it did to our. parents. And it happens especially when. you look at pictures when you think my. mom was 35. with three kids at that time. >> It's crazy. >> And she had already been working for. this long. >> Yeah. It's crazy. and then waking up at. this time and earning this much and then.

I go what excuse do I have when a flight. is delayed when this happens when that. happens so I get to look at life like. that and I was fortunate enough from an. early age that I would wake up in the. morning and go let's get it started I I. never struggle waking up I never. struggled getting ready for school. because I knew that as soon as you leave. the good times begin I hated sleeping. cuz I was like ah now we have to end the. good times [laughter]. >> the good times have come to. >> yeah the good times have come to an But. where did I I I want to understand like. how your journey leads to food because.

and forgive me if I'm wrong here. the girl who's out playing cricket and. hitting people with a bat. >> and writing poetry and playing guitar. and in none of these stories are you. mentioning food and yet sitting here. with you at this table your name is more. synonymous with food than it is with. cricket or with assault or with. [laughter] guitar or with poetry. previously, >> you know what I mean? So, so I want to. understand like where does that happen?

You're growing up as this young girl in. Kolkata, India. You're you're forging. your own path, but where where does food. come in? I love to eat. When I was. growing up in India, I had always. presumed that I would marry a prince and. I would be some princess in some palace. and I'd have lots of cooks and be. spoiled. It wasn't something that. excited me. this not really something I. wanted to do but I kind of presumed so I. didn't know how to cook because girls. didn't cook really I mean in our family. because especially my house because my.

mother had a catering business so we had. more cooks than everybody else so you. know it was it was mad our house was. like constantly full of food and and. ju just to cut you off there so help me. understand I I don't know how you know. sometimes we we'll um simplify India or. make it seem like it's like one place. everywhere. There there were some parts of India. that I went to where people said most. people sort of weren't cooking. They. were just getting the food from place.

Is that is that true? How does that. work? So I mean the thing is that there. is I always find it challenging when. people think India as like a kind of a. homogeneous that's what I mean and it's. never like that and there are huge. differences from the north to the south. >> but also our food wise you know there's. wheat growing areas where people have. roti there are rice growing areas wheat. can grow in drier soil okay. >> and for rice you need lot of water rice. grows in water. >> uh and uh. >> so there's there's loads of differences.

is and we are a very even three villages. away in India you know the the bhar. which is the tempering of dal is done. differently. >> so we are we're not a society where. people are all together there's huge. differences in people. >> and in in my household my father and my. mother never ate the same food my father. came from the north. >> if he saw a fish and if he saw eye of. fish he would just like almost pass out. he found and my mother loved fish cuz. she she grew up and was born near the.

ocean in the rivers and where my dad was. landlocked never saw fish when he was. growing up. So there's huge differences. with my parents but because I grew up in. Kolkata which is the food capital of. India. >> best kind of food you know it was where. you know so many cultures you know were. there uh you know the food there is. incredible I didn't learn how to cook. because I didn't have to. >> when my marriage was arranged uh with my. husband who was teaching at Cambridge.

University through an aunt and my poor. husband was like you know oh my god I. don't think I want to do it I convinced. him overnight night. >> to cook. >> No, to marry me. >> I I told him I said you know you walk. away from this. It's the biggest mistake. of your life. You have no idea what I've. capable of. I am going to bring so much. joy in your life. >> Why is this happening? >> So yeah, I convinced my husband and. yeah, it didn't happen. Poor guy. He's a. very innocent man. He's still married to. me. He requires a medal, you know. [laughter] He he believed in the story.

and he's, you know, very. >> How old are you in this? [laughter]. >> So I I was 21 22. >> Okay. And I realized this is my one. chance to marry an intelligent guy. because I'd asked my parents. >> Wait, so so is this this is also. arranged? So the Tinder family had. gotten together. >> That's why you're my friend. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]. >> Get down to the. >> go. Yeah. So they so they had they found. this person. >> They lied to him and they brought him to. Kolkata under some pretext which is not. to see a girl. He would never have come.

He would never have come because you. know my husband was not into all this. arranged marriage stuff. was he was. teaching in Oxford and then he was. teaching at Cambridge in his kind of. ivory tar academic professor in. economics jacket. So yeah, a tweet. jacket absolutely you know and yeah and. beard and cycling with you know uh and. looking like Batman and his black gown. going. >> So he was that guy [laughter]. >> and so and also on paper I I am feudal.

I come from royalty. So I'm everything. that he's against. >> politically. >> So politically he is so he's left off. center you know works with you know. works on poverty on corruption on you. know on you know failing states all of. that. So he's. >> he's not trying to end up with some. princess. >> No no absolutely not absolutely not. I. realized oh wow because I told my mother. please I want to marry an intelligent. person. You might find any intelligent. man I will marry him. So they found this.

guy where I realize I have one evening. to convince him and I told him this. I. said you know look at me and don't see. the princess in me because I am you know. I am fun. I do this I can do that. I did. tell him I could cook but I did tell him. I don't know how to cook but then this. was much later after he'd agreed to. marry me. Yeah. >> Uh he told me oh I don't believe in. gender roles. I'll cook. I know how to. cook. You don't worry. You just come and. you know enjoy your life. the last three. months. Then I went into this kind of. princess kind of mode we had of this.

grand wedding which I planned you know. everything including all the food. Yeah. So it was it was so good that I was. managed to I managed to convince him to. marry me and the relief of all these. aunts. [snorts] Somebody agreed to marry. Asma and all the aunts that we didn't. want to come to the wedding came just to. make sure that they watched me getting. married. >> My mother was like you know why is. everybody saying yes to the wedding. I. think because they're coming to make. sure it happens to witness. Yeah. >> To witness this absolutely incredible.

experience of seeing me getting married. Yeah. And I got married and it was very. exciting and I didn't know how to cook. Came to Cambridge, ate the really bad. food that Mushtat made. Shockingly bad. food. >> But you said he was good. >> No, I didn't say he was good. He just. knew how to cook. That's what he told. >> He just said he knew how to cook. There's a difference. Yeah. >> It's the same way when you told me you. know how to cook. I was like, "Oh boy, here we go." Cuz Eugene did this for me. Eugene was like he was like, "Oh, why. why don't I I can cook your your. favorite dish or what?" Cuz I was trying. to So I love um pig trotters, right?

Generally any any like hoof. You can. call them pig trotters. >> Okay. Any hoof. >> Okay. Trotter, [laughter]. >> any hoof, any you know what I mean? >> Yeah. So we have pa nihari. >> Is that what Okay. Right. So pig, cow, you name it. Just like anything with the. hoof. I'm in I'm in the gelatinous. I. love gelatinous, you know. So you can't. really find much of it, especially like. Hunan, I think that's how you pronounce. a cuisine in in South Africa. So Eugene. one day says to me, he goes, "Yo, I why. don't I can cook that for you." Then I.

was like, "Shame, my friend." He's. really, [laughter]. this is like a lovely gesture, but. completely unnecessary. [laughter]. Do you know what I mean? And then he was. like, he's like I was like, "What do you. mean?" Then Eugene said, "Oh, I cook.". Then I went, "Ah, I understand what he. means. He means that he will put food. together on a stove, heat it up, and. then ingest it.". >> Now, many people can cook. >> Yes.

>> Most people shouldn't cook. [laughter]. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I've met many people who can cook. >> I've met many people who say, "You. should come over. I I we'll cook." Yes. >> And then when you go, there you go. >> I pray this never happens again. [laughter]. I pray this this thing you've done to me. should [laughter] never be done to. another person. If I could call the. Hague, I would. because of what in fact I'm shocked that. you spent [laughter] time doing this. The fact that you said we'll be busy for. the next few hours and this is what you.

made. >> Oh my god. >> This So when people tell me they can. cook, I I take it as a So I understand. what But he he can actually like make. food that is delicious. >> Yeah. >> But I understand what you're saying. He. said he can cook. He can cook and. >> Yes. And that's what he did. He cooked. >> Yeah. And so. >> the food was no longer raw is what it. means. [laughter]. >> It was all it means. >> It was cooked. But that's when I really. realized that I could not change the. weather where I'd moved to. >> and I come from Bengal where the trees.

are lush and I moved to Cambridge in. January and all the trees had lost their. leaves. I'm that generation where we. didn't have internet. Obviously, you. know, I predate all of that. >> And because of the government that we. had in West Bengal, we didn't see a lot. of films from abroad. >> Uh so you didn't see a lot of western. films. I saw Love Story and I remember. crying. Ryan O'Neal. Oh my god, so. gorgeous. And then I saw snow and you. know that. But how how do you go to an. encyclopedia in a library to see. pictures? That's that's I'm that.

generation. >> So I was a shock, you know, I used I. felt and then there was this bad food at. home. Then I went out. It was bloody. freezing and all the bark in the tree. was raw. >> And I felt this was me that the tree. would never have a spring. I would never. have a spring. >> Oh wow. >> And it was this kind of. >> I was so lost and I yearned for home. >> and I realized that the one thing I. could do to change things, I couldn't. even talk to my parents because it's no.

internet, no mobile, no nothing. And I. realized that I had to cook because. in the aromas. in that kitchen, I would have felt the. presence of my mother. >> because I would have felt she'd come. next to me. And it was food became then. not uh not something I ate. but it became everything my identity my.

culture my religion my everything my. name. >> and so I came to start cooking not out. of a sense of uh. sorry I used you know my mom is. wonderful but I I I I realize how lucky. I am every she's lives there and she. cooks for me and now she's kind of not. remembering things too well that she. still manages to cook for me. It's a. privilege and an honor. >> but you know 30 odd years ago I cooked.

>> and I felt as the aromomas of the spices. and everything and I that I was. connecting not just to my mother. >> but to the my ancestors. >> to the matriarchs who had gone. >> I was now connected through food. So for. me food is not about you know yes I love. eating and I enjoy cooking but food for. me is about identity it's about power. it's about language and so much of the.

challenges that we face today. we have not used. food as one of the tools to talk about. justice. >> yeah oh that's interesting. >> and you know there are you know there's. things like that I will not use I. hesitate to use like poppy seeds In my. in Bengal, poppy seeds is used a lot. >> Yeah. >> But because I did my first degree in. history, >> I know why we're using poppy seeds. We're using poppy seeds because the. British forced the farmers on my land to.

grow puppy to get an entire population. in China addicted to opium so that they. could get tea for free, >> literally for nothing, and export it. Their desire for tea, they used farmers. my brothers on my land to grow up and. the problem is that when you grow and. they controlled the price it was a cash. crop. >> they control the price they had a whole. department controlling the price of. poppy the farmer had nothing to.

>> no no money left to buy food. >> so his wife the farmer's wife poppy. seeds are hard crushed them soaked it. and crushed it so it fill the belly of. the children so they ate they added. poppy seeds to whatever little they had. I refuse to use poppy seeds. So if food is not just about my. identity, food is also about speaking. about injustice and the fact that we. don't talk about these things. It's. almost like you know why should we talk. about it? No, I want to talk about.

slavery. I want to talk about. colonialism. I think that British. children in school should be taught. about the empire. >> Yes. Learn about the tuda history and. all of this. Very good. And. >> but you need to know. So when you push a. child, a brownkinned, dark-skinned child. and say go back home, you need to know. why that person is there on the land. Why they, you know, they were invited as. guests after the war. So many families.

are descend. >> Yeah. Know why they're there in the. first place. >> Why are they here? Don't The problem is. they don't understand. They don't. understand. The wealth of Britain was built on the. blood of my people and I see so much of. the food the fact the spices were traded. and it's not just you know the Indian. East India Company the Dutch East India. Company. >> Oh yes atrocities we're well familiar. with it. >> and the atrocities. So I think that food.

should be a lesson in history and. justice. >> and that is I first came to food out of. just loneliness. I missed my home. I. missed my parents. >> I missed being that child and being free. of responsibility in this ivory tar in. this university. I was abandoned and. left alone and I struggled and you know. my husband's a nice guy but you know.

he's an academic and at what they're. like. >> and and you know and he's a jersey very. very below average cook and [laughter]. and and you know and he like still got. that cricket bat out here [laughter] bro. it's just metaphorical now that cricket. bat is ready any time. >> and you know and he would spend the. whole night writing and listening to. opera and I thought opera was the worst. thing possible. I'd never heard opera in. my life. >> Really an academic. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, you know, I'm dead. I want to listen to, you know,

I want to listen to Brian Adams. I want. to listen to Madonna. You know, I was. like in the 80s, you know, pop music. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh my god. I had to wait for him to go. to the lecture so I could listen to pop. music. And it was a kind of crazy life. But because I understood that, wow, people don't get justice. They don't. understand whose water is it, whose land. is it, you know, the trees that grow on. either side of India and Pakistan. >> Yeah. >> Whose water is it being nourished by,

you know, I think that's so important to. understand the roots go so deep down. >> borders are there, but it, you know, even just a tree that grows, you know, where is the nourishment really coming. from? And I I've I've always been. interested in justice because I mean and. that's why I did law and I went on to do. a PhD because I think that it's. important to understand and to be. unafraid to challenge authority. because with knowledge the reason why.

there's so much racism and so easy to. ignite you know hatred. >> is ignorance. If people understood, you. know, why is this, you know, Jamaican. person sitting next to me in my class, >> I'm going to tell this person, you know, that, you know, go back home. >> I'm going to tell this South Asian child. that your food smells. You know, your. mom smells. Did you know that the wealth. was built on spices? That is the the. base of that curry that that child has. eaten. If you don't understand all of.

this, you're going to be ignorant and. you will easily be assued by people. telling you random things. Oh, you got. to hate them. And it's, you know, the. fact that, you know, an element in my. skin [clears throat] inside has made me. a shade darker. How am I a threat to. you? I bring with me the vibrant. culture, the color, the music, the. spices. I bring life, you know, and yet you want to hate me. because of the way I look, because of my.

skin tone. I pity you. I want to sit with you. I. want to break bread with you. I want to. tell you about my people. If you get up. from that table having eaten with me and. still want to hate my people, I forgive. you cuz that's my culture. >> Wow. >> I will let you go. But first, I must be. able to tell you the stories. This is. why you know in the Quran, the Torah, the Bible, there's always this thing. about breaking bread. >> always. >> But for me that is so important. It's.

not about peace. It's that shared. moment. When I break bread with you and. you, >> we have had a shared moment. >> We've all had our different journeys. coming to this table. When we eat the. same thing, we talk about what connects. us. You might tell me about the bread. you ate or you know, you tell me about. something that you ate. >> and then we all realize there is more. that connects us than divides us. Food. is the greatest way to connect people. And as an immigrant, as a Muslim living. in England, I built a successful.

restaurant. And I always say I could. only have done it in London where people. are openhearted. I managed to kind of. build a business, an immigrant business. with an all immigrant female kitchen. And we have been embraced. I don't know. many other cities where I could have. done it. I haven't tried it anywhere. else. But. food has been used for too long as a as. as if we become consumers. >> Yeah. >> And leaving religion out of it, you. know, and completely leaving religion.

out of it. >> We no longer say grace when we see food. We take our phone and take a picture. >> and if it's a nice picture, we post it. on Instagram or we send it to our. friends. >> It's become a tool of of how successful. you are. You know, I'm in this really. posh place. I'm eating this fancy stuff. or even if you're in street food, you. know, because you've had the ability to. travel to Mali or something, it's a. signifier. It's it tells you who so the. food is is part of that storytelling. that, you know, I'm not just in this. cool place. This is what I'm eating.

>> And we've become consumers. We see it as. our right. The fact that eating is a. privilege, a privilege that not everybody has, >> not in the past, even today, that hunger. is in our midst. So unlike a lot of other chefs where may. they use food to show off to to impress. people to make yeah I'm no artist. but I am the storyteller you need in. your life. >> Oh damn I love that. So this is the. thing I never see, you know, and I think.

it's so important because this is. everyone can relate to that beautiful. meal and you know in our culture not. anymore now kids are sitting on tablets. and watching stuff you know you see and. I don't remember of course I was too. small but I remember seeing other. children being made to sit on the lap of. the mother and fed by hand. >> and the touch of the of on the lips of. the rice. [gasps]. >> Wow. And you can't replicate this as an.

adult. >> But I want people to understand that. food is spiritual. >> Food is healing. It's the most powerful. language of love. And even if someone. turns around says, you know, oh, you. know, you're all fuddy duddy and this is. all. I don't care. I want to be. emotional. I have the right to be. emotional. And I have the right to use. food as part of that emotional language.

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and disasso disassociate them from a. memory. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's there's nothing there's. nothing more powerful than biting. something, drinking something, tasting. something, and immediately being taken. back to a moment, a memory, a person, an. experience, a time, a place. >> You you you can't you can't the the the. other this was one of my favorite. moments cuz I'll remember it. I I I. don't think she will, but um uh one of.

my best friends daughters, she's now I. guess you know in the 20 18 months or. something somewhere that you know baby. ages this all whatever. So they um we. were eating were eating Thai food. together. So it's myself and it's him. and it's his two girls, right? Twins. really young and all they wanted to eat. was the rice. So they keep going more. That's the they only got like 10 words. maybe now. more. So I put rice on the. table. We eat we eat more. Put more rice. on the table. They don't eat the curry.

or anything else that that comes with. the with the food. But then on the on. like one corner of the rice, some of the. the spicy sauce had like touched the. rice. So Kora takes the rice, she puts. it in her mouth. >> and then like you know when you you can. see. >> something that has never happened is. happening now. So she first like she. goes [laughter] she like glitches. >> she glitches and then she like opens her.

mouth to try and take it out but there's. nothing there anymore and she looks and. then she looks at us and then she looks. at her dad and she's like [laughter]. and then you know when the spice is like. warming up inside the mouth inside the. mouth inside the mouth. >> Yo bro, the way she cried but it was it. was like a funny cry cuz she wasn't. crying like somebody was hurting her. She was crying out of confusion and. literally I said to him I was like you. do realize I was like this obviously she. stopped crying cuz it wasn't the worst. thing in the world. [snorts]. But I was like this is a memory that. comes from.

>> this like this moment. It's it's. >> I'm I'm like you and he'll tell you when. it comes to food I'm exactly the same as. you. Because things happen around food. you know friendships are made. You. stories are shared, hearts are opened. >> There's like a. >> He ignored me when the trotters came. out. >> Ah, my man. My man [laughter] I I did. the opposite. How How grateful was I to. you? >> Yeah, you were. >> I sent this guy pictures later on that. night [laughter] of the of like like.

you don't even understand cuz when when. somebody prepares food for you and and. that's one of the biggest reasons I um. I'm so sad that we have food delivery. services. I understand they've made life. convenient. I understand it. >> You say this all the time, >> but I think we take for granted and we. we haven't yet studied. >> what we lose when. you don't hear the food being prepared. You don't see the food being prepared. You also most importantly do not see who.

is preparing your food. >> That is so important. >> Do you know what I mean? >> You don't see who is preparing your. food. And to your point, if we live in a world where we are. separated from the labor that is. providing anything for us, how can we. then appreciate said labor, >> you know? >> True. >> Yeah. How do we how do we even begin to. and and I know some people might be. like, ah, that's a that's a, you know, to to reduce it to something. But I. think of somebody like Muhammad Salah in.

in in Liverpool, right? Muhammad Salah. demonstrabably changed people's. attitudes towards Muslims in and around. Liverpool and I would argue in England. >> just by being himself and doing his. thing. >> But would the effect have been the same. if you didn't see him, you just heard. about the goals being scored, but you. didn't know who scored them. >> that [clears throat] someone just scored. goals for Liverpool. >> and got assists for Liverpool. It.

wouldn't be the same. There's something. powerful in seeing the person. >> prepare the food. Who is this person? Oh, who are those people in the kitchen? Who is in my kitchen? Who's. >> that thing is so magical. >> and I think it creates a gratitude in us. that we we've taken for granted. >> Yes. Yes. And I've you know I haven't. now I'm just moving locations to an a. bigger site in London. >> Oh, congratulations. >> Thank you. It's stressful, >> but it has an open kitchen. >> And the thing with open kitchens in in.

London, especially central London, >> because of the cost of rent, all. kitchens are in the basement. >> You don't see the people. You don't see. the people there where the bathrooms are. usually in the basement. >> Yes. >> And it doesn't make sense because that's. the money space, you know, massive open. kitchen. >> But for me, the honor comes from that. I. have two grandmothers. I've got three. mothers. I've got a kitchen of 12 women. who are cooking and singing in rhythm. And so we now moved to a bigger open. kitchen. I always, you know, I love.

Kingley Court where I was right now, but. I've had to move because, you know, it. was just getting too small for us. >> And I found this amazing site and it's. in a just off Piccadilly Circus. And. these things matter because this is my. flag in the ground. >> for all those women and all those men. who cook hidden behind walls. >> Yeah. I have opened it up. Watch us. We. are cooking not as a show. We're not. trying to impress you, but we want to. remind you that someone is laboring for.

food. >> And even just, you know, I do a lot of. work with farmers. And I've always felt. that, you know, the way chefs look at. ingredients is their god-given right. >> And you know, anyone who comes to my. restaurant will never get okra. I do not. want a jetlacked okcra on my table cuz. it is flown from Africa or Asia. [laughter]. or in a plane. I do not want. So I only. serve, you know, some stuff comes from. Europe because of British weather. You. have no choice. And a lot of it is. British. But you know, I make alugopi.

mut. I make really traditional Indian. stuff. No fusion stuff. Yeah. >> But I use ingredients close by because I. think that. this whole thing of hospitality, the. customer is always right. No, the. customer is wrong if they want to eat. out of season. >> No. Do do you know that that phrase by. the way this is one of my uh my great. joys in life he'll he'll tell you about. this I love more than most things in the. world. digging into the history of yeah the. anthropology of phrases. >> the customers always right do you know.

that that's not the phrase. >> really that is not the full phrase. >> okay I'm going to must listen now. >> no really so we've grown up I grew up. thinking that right I remember I think. we said the first we hear everywhere the. customers always Right. That's what. they' say. The customer is always right. And we believe it means that if a person. is buying or doing something, then they. are right and they must be catered to. 100%. No, >> the full phrase is not the customer is. always right. The the phrase is it's I. I'll read it out to you so I get it. proper, but it's basically the.

customer's always right in matters of. taste, but when it comes to I'll I'll. read it to you. >> Oh my god. The basically the full phrase. means this idiot doesn't know anything. [laughter] They they're right when it. comes to like what they want to choose. for themselves, but it doesn't mean that. they're right. Um Oh, man. >> No, no, no. I'll I'll read you the full. one. >> I have no idea. >> I promise you. Um. >> so, how did you dig this up? >> I just love it. Every time I hear a. phrase that doesn't make sense to me cuz. I started So, okay, the first one was um. blood is thicker than water. I fought.

with this my whole life, right? Because. I remember like my mom would you would. talk about struggles with her family and. I would go but mom you you know family. is the most important thing. Blood is. thicker than water. You you have to and. then I would meet people who struggled. with their families. >> People who. >> you can't cut them off. >> Yeah. People who had families that were. you know running the spectrum everything. from abusive all the way through to just. dismissive let's say. >> But people realized that they were not. of their family right and what would. society always say to us? Blood is.

thicker than water. >> Hey, blood is thicker than water. You. you go and you make up with your family. Blood is thicker than water. Don't you. your family you you can't choose your. family. It's the only family. >> And they always say blood's thicker than. water. And then one day I discovered the. full phrase and it is the blood of the. covenant is thicker than the water of. the womb. >> Yeah. >> That's the full phrase. The blood of the. covenant is thicker than the water of. the womb. Yeah. >> It means the exact opposite.

When they say blood is thicker than. water, which they shortened and then. people misunderstood. >> Yeah. >> What they mean is the blood that you. make in a the blood pack. >> in a bond. Yeah. >> With friendship or with chosen family is. more important than the water in the. womb. You didn't choose this person. >> They might not have chosen you. You. don't choose the people who surround. them. >> No from it. >> It's not as important as who you choose. Who are the idiots who have used it and. then. >> we are. >> mutated it to.

>> No, because they they shorten it. They. just just. goes, it gets shorter and shorter. >> I I'll read you. So the the I think it. actually came, funny enough, from. Selfridges, if I remember correctly. >> Um. >> yeah, it was it was like a full, you. know, and it just it it morphed over. time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Here it was. So it. was all the person said was the. customer's always right in matters of. taste. and that was it.

But it was in matters of taste but we. left it at the customer. >> He's always right. They're not. >> Now I'm wondering what cash is came. from. This is so interesting because. [clears throat]. >> I had. I do have difficult people uh from my. own community my you know South Asian. especially men. uh someone asked me that can you take. the the the price of the dal off the. menu and so they so my manager came I. said we're taking the dal off because he.

didn't like it I said no but he ate it. >> I'm going to go and ask this customer is. always right kind of situation happened. >> so I walked up to him and I said you. know. did you not like the dal because you ate. it and you want to take it off? He said. it doesn't taste like the dal my mother. made. And I was like yeah but your. mother's not working in my kitchen. I'm. so sorry. So I was like you know so I I. I [laughter] always tell you asma you. are busy kicking that Michelin star away. day by day. >> Oh no no [laughter]. no that's it's I I never aspired for a.

Michelin star. I owe I because Michelin. is so it's the whole basis. is excluding people like me. >> because they they're looking for a. standard which is so French which is so. white which is so much about alcohol. pairing it is about you know uh the. appearance if I was given a 1-in food on. a 10-in plate that this is Michelin.

standard and I have something drizzled. and rough and there's a puff and a puff. And if I need to eat so much edible. grass and edible flowers, I'd go graze. in a field. I don't want water on my. plate. And I don't want to pay sit for 2. hours getting 1 in food at a time. After. the third one in food is I wouldn't even. know what I'm eating. I I always look at. that stand and I'm thinking that was the. biggest food colonization. scam that has ever been perpetuated. People want to travel for so long for. familiarity. They wanted to eat what.

they know everywhere they went. How. crazy is that? Then that became the. standard of what good food is. >> But again, that that one was an. interesting one is like when you look at. the I love that you. essentially if I if I heard you, the. subtext of what you're saying is like we. take for granted how political food is. >> And not political as in like who did you. vote for not vote for? No, >> it [clears throat] tells a very. complicated story of the people that. came before it. You know what I mean? There's no food that does not contain a.

story. >> Yes. >> Who moved? who was forced to move, how. were they forced to move, what did they. do to survive? It's all forced to grow. >> It's all in the food, right? >> The same thing goes for those quantities. of food. [snorts]. >> So, if you if you look at old um you. know, like history, you know, and and. like we only have images, obviously. there no photos, but the stories that. were told, what was the way you. displayed your wealth? Through massive amounts of food, right? The richest would eat gluttonous amounts.

of food. >> Yeah. >> They would have banquetss that would go. on for days. >> Yes. >> A pig with a nipple in his mouth. >> Yes. And the way you would show that you. were rich. >> is by eating more food than you needed. to eat, >> getting big, throwing it up, by the way. >> Yeah. They go, they'd throw up, they'd. come back and eat some more. And so this. is happening all throughout like England. and France and all of these places. But. this is like how the rich live because. the peasants can't have as much food. Then what happens? We discover this. thing called farming and industrial.

farming. And we we create this new way. of of of mass-producing food, right? What does it do to the price of food? It. brings it down. >> What does it now mean for the poor. people? They can also eat more. >> And then the rich people went, I don't. want to be the same as but they also. have a full plate and I have a full. We. all the same now. I don't want that. And. so now the true measure of wealth is how. little you eat. >> was to show how much you could pay for. how little you could get.

>> And so it became this thing of like, oh, >> this is the best explanation I've heard. of it. >> It literally became that. And so it it. became a. >> it's like poor people have a plate full. of food. And and so the way you would. show how classy you are was that you had. you had so little. It was just a tiny. little amount. And oh, I I I'll graze. and I'll nibble and and that that's that. became the new signifier of class and. power and wealth and poor people had. lots of food and like you know what I. mean and it's it's actually crazy how.

that thing goes back and forth. It is. it's so fascinating what you've just. said because it deeply concerns me and. also uh in India we you know for us food. there's rice there's roti there's thing. >> now all Indian fine dining the ones are. fish and star. >> they serve food that I don't recognize. >> and the fact that it's gone into this. 1in stuff with no rice no bread no. nothing. >> uh it's unrecognizable and and they've. put caviar and they've put you know.

truffle oil which is like the worst. thing in the universe. >> In any case, thank you on on uh. everything and no no absolutely. overrated beyond belief. >> U and I think French food is also. overrated. Just that. >> damn as my SHOTS FIRED. >> NO, because you know so much butter and. cream, you know. Wow. You know, I put so. much butter and cream in my shoe. It. might taste nice, but it is [laughter]. uh it it just is, you know, and no. offense, man. You know, it's a great.

cuisine. I'm sure that you know this. brigade system, all of that, they have a. great history and I'm not insulting any. French cuisine. Please can I have that. caveat? Like, yeah, you please. Yeah, I. I love French men and I love French. cuisine. Sorry if I said that, but it's. true. >> It's true. >> THE FRENCH MEN AS [laughter]. NOTHING to do with the men. No, >> this has nothing to do with the men. Asma was like, uh, I'm sorry about the I. love French men [laughter] and I love. the food as well. How we were saying. nothing about the men and just threw. that in out of nowhere. [laughter].

Do you realize one thing? I did a law. degree. So you know this is that you. cover yourself with every [laughter]. you now. So this is me building defense. >> Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. You're building up the case. You know. >> deniability [laughter] case. I I I I get. into trouble. Let me try everything, you. know. One. [laughter] Oh, I have to say. I like French women as well. >> Yeah, closes. But I mean, yes, I think. it's over. I think the problem is the. fact that very few people say this and. you know I I'm I want to say this that.

there's a lot of racism. >> when it comes to what is elevated. cuisine. >> of course. >> and the fact that French Italian even. and when it comes to Asian now you have. you know Korean and and Japanese food is. seen as elevated. >> but so much of our cuisine you know and. especially when you look at Africa and. you look at large swades of of in South. Asia as well you know, Middle East, it's. seen as cheap and cheerful. >> Yeah. >> Our food is all about wholesome, cheerful food.

>> This fact that we are not seen as. sophisticated. I remember someone. telling me, "Asma, no one's going to pay. £139. to come for your biryani." We sold out. within minutes. And I said, "No, this is. my price tag. I want to end this. monopoly of this tattooed, you know, aggressive testosterone-driven. madman who's in a stainless steel empire. beating up people allowed to beat up.

Yes. Shouting and screaming. >> in this tormented soul has produced this. dish. I'll get indigestion please. I. don't want to eat it. And I just feel. that you know why is it that we are you. know we our food heritage in Africa in. everywhere goes back you know centuries. We grew food you know this is the cradle. of civilization. We actually you know so. much of what we eat today is because of. what happened in our lands.

>> nourished in our lands our soil. Please. don't dismiss us. do not walk over the. souls of our ancestors and see that our. food is not sophisticated. Today the. world eats because of us, because of our. farmers and in the dust that flies are. the roof or the soul of these amazing. men and women who grew crops. No one is. telling their story and this is what. bothers me that you know we are not seen. our food is not seen as sophisticated.

Immigrant food in in too many places is. seen as, you know, ethnic food. We. bracketed in Yeah. And, you know, be. cheap, be spicy, you know, and so in. England, you have people who say, "Oh, you know, >> this is a a hangover uh, you know, cure. They go off for a bindaloo. People go to. these, you know, what they call curry. houses and have beer and are aggressive. and just drink a lot and eat a lot. >> Please stop because. >> it's a desecration.". >> Yes, it is. It is. is and the problem is.

no one is saying it and if it means that. someone does not want to come to my. restaurant because they find my politics. uncomfortable. >> let them not come. >> exactly the king came to my restaurant. and he was amazing. >> he [laughter] was amazing and I think. that if the king of England can come to. your restaurant come into your kitchen. and pack biryani for you know refugee. families that were sitting outside he. was packing biryani for himself but also. for the refugee families. >> this is the great equalizer. >> from one pot.

food is very powerful. We should be. unafraid. >> But the problem is that in this desire. to succeed, you will not find chefs talking about. these things, not talking about power. and equality. And you have this fringe. of these people who I'm also. uncomfortable with talking about, you. know, uh environment and sustainability. at a huge price tag. So this particular. dish the moisture in that was the. rainforest from whatever it dropped per. bum leaf and [laughter] this this milk.

came and the moon was full and the cow. was happy and they sang a song and they. massaged the cow and then did yoga. >> the cow's cholesterol. >> Yeah. Yeah. So. >> this also like drives me mad because. again you are twisting food into some. kind of. >> uh you know you're separating it out. Well, essentially what's happening, you're right, is, you know, >> I always fall back on on on the phrase. It was a beautiful one that I I read. once. I think it was actually a British. author. She said, um um she said, "I I.

can't wait for the world to get over. race so that we can realize we're all. dealing with class." And fundamentally, that's all this is, right? >> It is it is a way for people. to define how much their class is. superior to somebody else's. and and it. doesn't matter how they do it. So to. your point with quote unquote ethnic. food, why is it ethnic? So then where's. the center then? >> Yeah. >> Where where is the the normal if that's. the ethnic?

>> The second thing is like the food. itself. >> I find it interesting even when you're. talking about it that people will make. it seem like those foods are not a. default at all. >> They are being they are the things you. eat when you're going off the beaten. path. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Adventurous. >> Yeah. Adventurous. Oh, yeah. No, no, I. couldn't. Oh, I couldn't. Then it's. like, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> Adventurous is eating food that has no. spice. That's adventurous. When I see. people that eat food with no flavor, I'm. like, wow, you truly you're you're.

adventurous. How how do you eat food? It. has no flavor, bro. >> The food that we like I think people. take for granted how some of these. things are used to define even what. we're supposed to aspire to. >> Yeah. >> Right. So to your point, do you know how. many kids who I mean adults now, but how. many people would talk about when they. were kids, Korean, Indian, uh you name. it, they had distinct cuisines and they. were embarrassed their whole lives as. kids. >> Oh yeah. >> Embarrassed. They.

>> My best friend in school when I was. growing up, The Ple hated the fact that. his mom gave him curry every single day. >> Yeah. >> To take in in a sandwich. >> Mhm. >> We became friends mostly because of. this. We swapped our curry. Like I gave. him the money that my mom would give me. for food. He'd give me his curry. sandwiches. Every day when I would eat. it, I was like, "Bro, I don't understand. how you don't think this is the greatest. food ever." But most of it boiled down. to the fact that. he felt like it was like less than. Yeah. Because the other kids were eating.

burgers and hot dogs and all the things. you could buy, >> the cheese sandwiches. >> Yeah. >> And then he had this curry sandwich that. came in this little box and. >> the smell would obviously. >> Exactly. when the exact but it's. interesting how that it's interesting. how all of that. >> becomes a signifier of your place in. society and in the world it's like oh. >> I I think we were able to measure. growing up in the township we were able. to measure time. of the day we're able to measure what. day of the week it was based on what.

food there was. >> yeah definitely yeah. >> Sunday had its own smell and flavor. after work 5. >> pumpkin Sunday. >> right. >> after work 5 six you'd be hardressed to. find any house in the township in this. cupboard that didn't have a box of. curry. Curry powder. >> Yes. >> So there was this famous brand called. Raja. There was just curry powder. So. the staples in every township home, onion, >> tomatoes, >> you know this. >> cabbage. >> on a good day. Spinach,

>> but potatoes is a must. >> Yeah, potatoes a staple. >> But the elevator was always just a pinch. of that curry powder. That box would. last the whole month. But. [clears throat] it just elevated the. whole dish and you would know when your. mom is home, when you were playing in. the streets, when you could just smell. >> you'd smell it everywhere. You smell in. the whole neighborhood. >> Right. >> There was there was a fragrance that it. it I love that you say that it was it. was it was a it was a. >> it was almost like a siren's call. >> Oh yeah. To come home home existed. >> Was a dinner bell.

>> Yeah. Well, actually this is something. I've always wanted to know. I'm confused. by this. So when I was in India, I would. say curry and then people were like what. are you talking about? >> Mhm. [laughter]. >> No, really. So they'd be like, "What do. you love?" And I'd be like, "Oh, I love. curry." And they'd be like, "What? What. are you What are you What are [laughter]. you talking about?". >> And then like once I said like even when. I was there, I was like, "Naan." And the. guy said, "Which naan?" And then I was. like, "None of that." Na naan. [laughter]. And he's like, and then the one guy said. to me that like naan is bread. >> Yes. >> And I was like, "Yes, I want some naan. bread." And then he said, "No, you.

you're saying and then he and then he it. was so so cute the way he said it to me. He's like he says, "Trevor," he says, "Do you understand right now you're. saying bread?". >> Yes. >> Then I was like, "What do you mean?". He's like, "You basically came to me and. you said, "I want bread.". >> And I was like, "I I don't understand.". >> I love the Indian accent in there. He's. like, >> cuz he he said it so like. >> he's like, "Yo, >> as a matter of fact.". >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, okay, help us understand. All of us. who want to be initiated into this. world, help us understand. What is curry? >> It's not a It's not I didn't never heard.

of the word till I came to England. First time someone told me, "Do you do. you do you know how to make curry?" I. was like, "I don't know. I don't I've. never heard of it." It's an English word. that the British used that they morphed. from probably from curry, which is a. kind of you know, South [snorts] Indian. kind of sauce, >> spicy sauce. >> We don't know. Every dish has a name. Curry is not a name of anything. I never heard of it. And first time I.

heard of it was in 1992. I've heard the word curry. I never heard. of it before. And it's really. interesting because it's almost like. they need to dumb it down to the lowest. common denominator. >> by calling it one thing. And the fact. that they actually think there is. >> removes it complexity as well, you know. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Also, the fact that they think a country. the size of India has something called.

Indian cuisine. >> Let an Indian try and say there's a. European cuisine. >> or that I'm I'm in America, there's an. American cuisine. You know, putting the. North and and South America together. >> Yeah. >> We are not that. But the problem is they. take away from us our layering, our. identity, our accent, the fabric that we wear, the thing that. makes us different by literally making. our by painting us all in one corner in.

the same shade. >> It's easier for them to deal with us. Curry is a problematic word. And you. know I recently did a show where it was. secrets of the curry kitchen. And I was. like I don't want the word curry. But. they were saying the people will not. understand that it's about Indian food. And eventually I gave in. I said fine. you know I'd rather people understood. And the first thing I said the moment. the camera comes on I'm going to say. there is no word like curry. They said. say it. So every literally every episode. I said there is nothing called curry but.

I'm going to show you how to make kma. I'm going to show you how to make. chalaris. I'm going to show you how to. make. >> Okay. So the thing that we are calling. so when we say like when people are like. I love butter chicken curry and I love. vindaloo curry and I that's wrong. >> It's absolutely wrong. >> Okay. >> It's like you know I like spaghetti. pasta and I love you. It's a generic. word that is added on. >> It has no meaning at all. >> There is no. >> dish that doesn't have a name. And there. are things that you know like in you.

know random things like you know you. will say you know zera aloo zera is. cumin aloo aloo is potato. >> So sometimes you might call something by. the combination of things that are in. there. >> Okay. Okay. >> And if you don't have a name because. it's it's such an ordinary everyday. dish. >> Uh but no we have names for everything. >> So it's like saying rice and beans in. that way. You you could say rice and. beans. That's what it is. Yes. Two. things that are simple. >> Yeah. So so we do have a lot of that as. well. We have simple words like you know. that we combine because there they talk.

about the two main ingredients. >> But I think that this is again to do. with the fact that they have not you. know I say this to a lot of people. I. say I will not let you eat my food. unless you sit down and understand who I. am, >> my music, my poetry, the rhythm. You. cannot take away, you know, my fabric, my culture, my music, my architecture, my everything. >> Yeah. >> And then dismiss me. I won't let you.

have my food then. Because you cannot. appropriate my culture by dumbing down. my food and taking the the easiest thing. for you. >> is to accept my food. >> You cannot have my food unless you have. me. Mhm. >> You need to understand the problem is. that so many cultures uh I mean in. England and in a lot of other countries. as well this is what they find easiest. to take. >> But are they interested in hearing about. your tribe? >> Are they interested in hearing about.

your faith. >> or. our poets or the books that excite us? You know. >> what is it that we wear in certain. festivals? What keeps us up at night? No, they take our food because it's so. easy and they walk away. There is no. respect. And where there is no respect. on the table, I will not serve. >> Yeah. >> I will not. >> Cuz I feel like sometimes in our quest. to be accepted, we become party to our. own exclusion.

>> Yeah. >> You know, >> Yes. And I think that it's hard because. when you are bread and butter and 41. families. >> that I work with my team are dependent. on our success. >> Uh. >> I have to be careful. >> but I take it to the very edge of where. I can be. >> right. >> and I know everything I'm saying now. people will listen. You're hugely. popular and I'm very grateful to be here. speaking with you all because it allows. me to reach out to an an audience in my.

Muslim name in my accented voice. The. fact that I tell the story of women and. our food, you know, people should come. and watch an open kitchen. There's no. anger. No one is screaming and shouting. >> It's not the thing that we see in TV all. the time. And the problem is that television is is. woriing and all these crazy manic men. who are not being able to deal with the. pressure in the kitchen. I can send them. to an ashram in India in the Himalayas.

[laughter] If you if you can't deal with. pressure, go away. Do not do not. traumatize young people because we are. losing. >> Yeah, you're not wrong. We're losing so. many people, young men and women who. leave hospitality because some crazy. person cannot deal with the pressure. Why are the Do you ever hear of a CEO of. a company going around slapping their. secretary or someone else in their on. the board? No. And who does who are. these chefs, powerful people picking on. their playground bullies?

>> Yeah. >> Tell them to go slap the owner or the. head silier. >> or this investors or the landlord. >> No. No. Who do they burn with hot. spoons? Who do they bite? I have seen. bite marks on women who been bitten by. by him. >> and the way that they slapped, you know, and our skin is dark. >> You really need to hit hard for us to. show bruise. >> How are they being allowed in no other. profession? And I'm I'm saying this not. because I'm just I'm a lawyer, but in no.

other profession and no other space. would this level of assault. >> physical sexual be allowed as allowed in. the kitchen. If it was outside the. kitchen, they would be in jail. >> in full display. >> in but we are allowing this because we. allow the excuse that this is pressure. >> It's even glorified. >> You it is glorified. This is seen like. they are these tormented people and I I. feel that it's almost as if the men who. cook today do not want to be reminded of. the women who cooked for them.

>> before. >> H. >> because [clears throat] like in England. and I'm don't know what it's like in. South but like school meals were served. by older women. >> Yeah. Lunch ladies. >> Yeah. Lunch ladies. Exactly. Your. memories are your grandmother, your. mother, lunch ladies. >> Yeah. Now that you're an artist, you. will become this macho kind of crazy man. who will be so, you know, radiate. testosterone because you've made cooking. into a combat sport. >> Yeah. >> So that it is so far away from the.

spiritual rhythm of the spices as. they're crushed in our homeland. I even. think the instrument that is used to. to to to. symbolize cooking the big the knife so. combative. You're right. It's I think. it's a man that said why not the the. spoon or the ladle. >> Yeah. Come to my kitchen, you'll see. that the only knife we have is a very. small tomato knife because every. household had one sharp knife and in my.

kitchen we have one sharp knife and it. moves between people. We all had one. sharp knife. Remember? >> Yeah. >> There's one sharp knife in everyone's. house in the township. >> Yeah. And in my kitchen, I have one. sharp knife. I don't have fancy knives. I got very excited. I went and bought. some Japanese knives. We had to take. women to A&E after that because they had. cut their fingers. [laughter]. Like they're not used. We don't know. because we're used to bloody working. with blood knives. But the whole thing. is that why has it become so.

comparative? Why has it become about. aggression and show. >> and that you are taking this ingredient. and you are imposing yourself on it? >> Can I tell you why I think I think it. goes back to something that you said. literally at the beginning of this. conversation. It is because. if you make it seem like it is combative. and if you make it feel like it is. pained and if you make it just like look. like the the most gritty and difficult.

task then people are more likely to. appreciate it. Whereas the women who as. you said when we first started. >> they make it [snorts] look effortless. They make it seem as if it didn't take. their time as if the planning wasn't. meticulous. They make it feel as if it. was a foregone conclusion. You're less. likely to appreciate it. And so, funny. enough, even just if I'm just guessing. in a way. when. Khan or any other woman, our.

grandmothers, whoever they were, when. they would cook. and it would just be when I think of. like my gran and how much food she would. cook every single Sunday for everyone in. the family. We all had those that story. There's not one one time where I can. remember her like barking like Gordon. Ramsay, like screaming at people, "GET. ME MY BLOODY, WHERE'S MY SPILLAGE, YOU. LITTLE [ __ ] WHY?". >> But the amount of food that was cooked. for people. >> and the and the quality and the. consistency of that food. >> Yeah.

>> Do you get what I'm saying? Like, we're. not talking about burnt bottoms. We're. not talking about undercooked anything. But I'm. >> using only four plates. >> Yo, the and the stove itself, there was. nothing fancy. There was no, you know. what I mean? coal stove. But if you think about it, beyond like. her family and beyond that world, the. appreciation isn't no one. Everyone's. like, everyone will go like, "Oh, yeah, I'm grandmother." Yeah, but grandmothers. know how to cook. >> Do you get what I'm saying? >> But when you. >> punch walls and slap people and scream.

and come and wipe a plate with your ser, you know what I mean? And and turn the. plate. You know, they love doing that. thing. You turn the plate. [clears throat]. Turn the plate. Then then it makes it. feel like I mean this. >> the effort. >> the effort. Have you eaten there? Have. you? Oh, we're lucky that we got in. >> It's so hard to prepare that that one. carrot in the middle of the plate. >> Even the [laughter] words astronomy. >> Oh, I mean I actually think that's. that's a lot of what it is. >> This is so true what you're saying. And. and then the added insult is that often.

I hear chefs being interviewed and they. say, "Who's the best chef?" And they say. my mom or my grandmom. >> Show me a mom and grandmom who's in your. kitchen. >> Yeah, >> they are not there. There's also agism, >> you know. And if you told me now to go. chase a deer in a forest, deer will have. gone to another continent by the time I. even go near it. [laughter] But you. asked me to cook with very few. ingredients. And this is the simplicity. of our thing. I will cook you a meal you.

will never forget. But the problem is. that the world will judge me, will look. at my body shape, will look at my age, will look at my gray hair and decide. she's not creative, she's not dynamic, she's not this muscular, tattooed, pierced monster who's screaming, when was that ever something that was. required to make a beautiful meal? M. >> our grandmothers my grandmother's slight. and small and you know you come into my. kitchen you'll see you know we've got.

women who are not even 5 ft they're. small they're bright they're full of. spark. >> they love to cook. >> and they love to cook and there's a joy. and they smile but I I I feel so sad. because we have a and also I must blame. the media as well. >> oh definitely. >> the media television you know all kinds. of media worship this kind of irrational. erratic. behavior, unkind behavior. And the thing.

is that what bothers me is the physical. sexual abuse that's happening and we are. allowing this to happen is shameful. because the it's I am ashamed of. hospitality. I'm ashamed of our industry. that we have not stood up for our women. We It's not just women. It is men too. It is the, you know, empathetic men, men. who are of different sexuality. The way. that young because often, you know, in. England, you'll find young kids who are. struggling in school be sent off to, you.

know, vocational training. They often. learn cooking because it doesn't require. you to read and write too much. >> They come in at 16. >> Then they're called the most aggressive. things. They are reminded at they're. reminded about all the struggles that. they had. How are you powerful when you are cannot. embrace the weak? When you cannot. actually show them hope. For me, a. leader is someone who tells someone. who's gone in afraid and broken, who has. been bullied in school and comes in, boy.

or a girl, it doesn't matter. You take. them into this world, your secret world. of cooking, and you show them how spice. works and use the food to speak to them. >> about hope and love. Well, our industry is all about, you. know, pushing each each other down and, you know, this kind of very fake uh. uh service where service and hospitality.

is all about, you know, impressing. people, making them feel good. But when. there are tears behind the wall in your. kitchen, who are you actually looking. after? You don't look after your own. So. then if the guest leaves and thinks that. this is great, give you a fivestar. review. Michelin gives you a star, Michelin might give you three stars. What is that star worth when you have. broken the soul of someone in your. kitchen and we are aligning this every. day and we have not been able to protect. our own. I often think, you know, to to.

the point you're you're making about um. the media, I often think it's it's quite an. indictment. that, you know, I'll use Hollywood as a. shortcut for it cuz it's just one of the. media spaces that has informed how we. live. that Hollywood has been really. lazy at finding ways to glamorize. things that seem. as if they contain no glamour. [snorts].

>> And what I mean is this is like if you. think about how many industries. Hollywood has taught us about and how. they've shaped how people see them, you. can't help but think that it now becomes. a case of like the tail wagging the dog. I'm yet to meet a policeman who didn't. see police in a movie or on TV and think. that that's what policing is. >> You know, simple example, we all at some. point in our lives watched a TV show.

where there were police where the one. cop wanted the law to be done so badly. that they slammed someone's head on a. table or they smashed them against a. wall. And and the story tells us that. they are the good person. >> Yeah. >> Because they're willing to break the law. to save the law. Yeah. >> He's just like, "Wait, no, but if you. What are you doing?". >> But the way it's portrayed to us, like. that's the way you do it. At some point, it's like, you know, turn off the. cameras. I'll get this guy to talk. >> And we at home like, "Yeah, turn off the.

cameras. Screw their civil liberties. Get them to talk." You know, and and. then they do the same thing with like. the military. They go like, "This is how. you do it. You go to that country and. those people are savages and you you. shoot them all." And we're like, "Yeah, shoot them all.". >> We we do this with everything. >> It's not just war. The same thing that. we do with the cooking or with the chefs. is like it's these stories of like the. only way you can make this food is if. you're pained, if you're struggling. Even artists, >> it's interesting how. we forget that the image that we give. out that inspires people to become this.

thing becomes how they define who. they're going to be in it. >> Yeah. Do. >> do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. And and so when when I was. approached by chef's table, I was so. shocked because till then I was like, you know, oh, these are like the world's. best chefs and they are like, you know, serious artists, you know, with gold. leaf and caviar. >> and then when I realized that this is. not a hook. First I thought they were it. was a hoax. >> and then I realized it's real. >> I told them don't script me. Please. don't script me.

>> Oh wow. >> This is that's I'm not scripted at all. I told the story of my people. I spoke. about my mother crying when I was born. >> as a second daughter. The lamenting on. my birth. I spoke about inequality and. justice. And I was so happy. they just sat there and let me say it. >> I didn't need to tell them that, you. know, my food is this exquisite and I do. this and I'm so tormented and I have all. these things. >> I didn't need to. I cooked biryani and I.

opened the biryani and I fed people and. that's what it is. But I think that the. problem is that you know when you media. is looking for those kind of it's like. you know self fulfilling prophecy you. know you're this you're that. >> and there are so many of us you know I'm. not just the only one there are many. people who have really interesting. stories who understand justice. >> but where are there no one is telling. their story. >> they don't get the opportunity to talk. about what makes them special and their.

food special and then You have we are. flooded by all these crazy wacko men who. are going on beating people and we all. think they're great because they're. abusive. >> And. it really worries me because the problem. is and I don't want to be a hypocrite. but I'll tell you one thing. I don't. have a daughter. If my daughter wanted. to work in a commercial kitchen, I. wouldn't let her go. >> Wow. Because of what you know. >> Yeah. I would I would be awake and I. would check her all the time to see has. she got injuries? Is she being bruised? Is she being bullied? It's funny you say.

that. Throughout our conversation, I was. looking at your arms and you have no. scars. You have no burn marks. Cuz I. know this female chef who had like scars. and burn marks all over her hands all. the way up to her elbow. And she said, "That's the only way you get respect in. these commercial kitchens is if you have. these marks and these cuts on your. finger, it means you've done the time. and you've put in the time and you've. done the work." And [clears throat] our. grandmothers didn't have that. You don't. have that. >> Yeah. I mean if if if one of our. grandmothers burned themselves all the.

other aunties would say how could you do. it you'd be looked down upon for getting. burnt don't you know that's a sign of. incompetence you are so right and the. whole point is that. >> you the whole culture in a kitchen is so. violent. >> it is so horrible and I actually took on. Michelin I there was proved allegation. has to be proved allegation again I'm a. lawyer backing myself [laughter] backing. myself up proved alg where abuse. happened in a kitchen which has a. Michelin star. I asked them Michelin.

take the star off. >> Yeah. >> They didn't reply to me for a long time. I kept asking them. Then they got back. to me with some kind of you know answer. saying oh that's not that's not what we. do. >> But you do you recognize and you give a. kind of accolade to that kitchen and. that chef. >> But they have been brutal. They have. been proved to have abused someone in. the kitchen. Why can you not take off. the star? But they will not. And the. problem is that when the entire.

industry, you know, is based on this. that no, we will not speak up. We will. keep silent because. I I've never wanted to be I am on the. fringe of this all male Mayfair club, mostly white people who are in this. exclusive club like you have them in. Britain where women come in. I mean now. of course the law has changed because. the law says have women are members as. well but in hospitality women are just.

guests who you sign in you know the. clubs that we have you sign a woman and. you bring her in. >> someone has to vouch for you. >> someone has to vouch for you and if you. now look at all the successful women I. have always said this whenever there. have been proved allegations of abuse in. a kitchen not a single Michelin star. female chef has spoken up if you Google. and you will see it's just me. The. voucher stops there. >> It's just me. I've write full page. articles about allegations including. some very prominent male chefs who said,

you know, we don't want to hire women. because when they get pregnant, they. cannot pick up pots. I was like, wow. To. say this I and every female chef who is. seen as a leader of this industry who. has a mission star, the silence is. deafening. Why are you silent? And this. is our problem. And I have said it. repeatedly and not even once has any of. these women approached me privately. saying on the side. >> that you know I also agree with you but.

because you know. >> these are my friends I I don't say. >> they haven't even approached me. personally. that's how broken we are that women see. themselves as chefs first and women fine. you can see yourself as you know queen. of you know whatever you can be who who. you can imagine yourself to be whatever. you. But I also see you as a female. I see. you as a female leader. >> There's a woman in your team who might. be getting bullied. >> Your silence tells her sh keep quiet. >> Mhm.

>> Because to progress, you stay silent. You you follow conform to the system. >> Become an accomplice. >> I could not breathe. I could not live. If I had to stay silent and allow abuse. in front of me for my success, my. success would hurt me more than anything. else. And I don't understand. I guess. it's a personality thing, but you know, I do not understand how they are still. silent. Nobody else is speaking up. I am.

one of the only females who's speaking. up in the industry. And. very, you know, not so long ago, a male. chef was asked this in a press. conference publicly that, you know, what. do you think of someone like Asma who. says, you know, that male chef, he said, tell her to come into a real kitchen and. work with men. Tell her to come and when. I challenged him, he said it was his as. English is not his first language. Oh. wow. >> Uh [laughter] I was like. >> French men.

>> after all you've done for them. >> I was saying English is also not my. first language. But I would not say. something like that. It's not about. English. >> Wow. Pop out. >> Yes. But. >> Eugene, I challenge you to come work in. a real kitchen. What's that Trevor and. me? No. No. [laughter]. PC. no Eugene the language don't speak. [laughter]. the my first language is coward.

that's true so it's a but despite how. tough it is I I'm so optimistic. maybe she's not born yet but the legacy. I'm leaving. and that girl that's not born yet. she will know my name I will be dead and. I will be dust. She will know there was. someone like me who created a space that. was free for women. And I want her to.

know I want her to know my name. I want. her to know that I walk in thorns and I. go through fire because one day she will. be free. >> and she will be without fear. And. I that is what. excites me that I will be able to push. back and clear the pathway and through. just the water that I see myself that. I'll leave everything moistened and.

fresh and the harvest will grow and. there will be women and men. >> who will be free of fear. I I believe this will happen. I may not. see it. >> You will see it. >> But I feel that there will be a day when. there is no fear in the kitchen. And. this is what drives me. And I feel. everything in my life has led me to this. place. >> where I fight for those who I will never.

see. And I speak for those who. I don't know. But what a privilege it is. and what an honor to be able to do this. This excites me more than everything. else because I, you know, all my friends. who were in law school with me who were. really bad are super rich now, you know, have fancy cars, live in St. John's Wood. and all of this. And I think, you know, am I going to be poor my whole life? And. I think I will be, but I know that, you.

know, legacy is more important than. everything else. You know, if you are a. CEO, a CFO of a company, your name is on. a door with the with the title, but when. you die, all your things are put in a. box and given away after a respectable, you know, gap. Someone else's name is. put there. What is your legacy? But I. know one thing that when I die, I will. live on forever because I did something. for women in industry in kitchens that.

no one else has done so far. And I asked. my father that you know when I die do. not bury me inside the fortress and the. palace. Bury me on the street so that. everyone can walk past. And I want them. to ask who is she? Mhm. >> I want the world to know this story. because I want them to know that you. could succeed. You could be kind. You. could be graceful. You could be, you. know, caring about the community. And. I'm very successful. I want people to.

know you can be successful without being. scared. No, that's why you're here. And. that's that's I mean when I when I told. the team when I was like we really got. to get Asma on, they were like some. people were like, "Who's Asma?" Some. people were like, "Oh, from Chef's. Table." I was like, "No, no, no. Forget. all the things, you know. You just you. just have to meet this person." And so, I'm glad I'm glad you came and joined us. today. This was amazing. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Thank you very much. >> And now, I mean, we have to we have to. go and eat the food now. >> Yes. >> I don't think I've ever been this.

hungry. >> You have to come and women cooking. >> magical. You've got to come. >> No, I mean that we know that you can't. even like. >> Yeah. But just like now [music]. [laughter]. my stove APPARENTLY. >> Eugene download the app Eugene download. that [laughter] app Eugene. Let's get. going. >> Oh god. >> Asma. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. Thank you so much. >> This was lovely. Thank you very much. [music]. >> Thank you so much for watching the.

episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on. to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. >> [music]. >> let them suffer for a change. And don't. forget to engage with us in the. comments. Uh if you want to suggest a. guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you. can chat to us. We will read through the. comments and we'll get into it. [music]. Either way, I appreciate you taking the. time. Thank you for hanging out with us. on What Now. And remember, [music] we do. this for you, so we would like to hear. from you. Till next time. Thank you.