Ultramarathoner Mark Dowdle | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #680

He's an ultra endurance athlete known. for running some of the most brutal. marathons in existence. Uh he just. completed the last soul ultra in. Germany, 395 miles in 4 days. I enjoyed. my time with today's guest, Mr. Mark. Dowel. I will find a song I've been singing.

>> You can drop this down just a touch. Yeah. And if you need to move it or. whatever, if something's getting weird, just do whatever you got to do. >> Um. >> Yeah, dude. You're a freak, bro. Like a. nice freak. >> I appreciate that. >> Yeah. Not like Yeah. Not like a carnival. woman, but um the race the race you just. won, it's called the Last Soul Ultra. Marathon. You ran 395 miles in just. under 94 hours. Yeah.

>> Without sleep. >> It's a backyard ultra. >> Yep. >> For our listeners that do not know, can. you explain what a backyard ultra. marathon is? >> Sure. Yeah. A backyard ultra is when you. run 4.167 miles or 6.7 kilometers every. hour on the hour until one person's. left. So it's also people call it the. last person standing. So you have, you. know, 59 minutes and 59 seconds to. complete this four mile loop. If you run.

it in 45 minutes, you get 15 minutes of. rest. If you you run it in 52 minutes, you get 8 minutes of rest. And you just. keep doing the same loop over and over. again until either you time out. You. physically can't go anymore or you. mentally just are done. And the real. obstacle of this race, yes, is the. physical aspect to it, but it's dealing. with the unknown because you don't know. when the race is going to end. And so. it's a constant battle between how do I.

stack up against these other people? And. it's it's a big game of trying to bring. yourself back to the present and not. compare yourself of how you perceive. your pain because we're all experiencing. pain out there, right? But I can only. feel my pain. And then I look at. somebody else who might be. doing a good job of posturing. >> and I will perceive myself as worse off. or less than or not capable enough.

because of a perception that I've. created in my mind about who they are. compared to myself. >> Wow. And so the thing I love about this. race is yes, it's a physical thing, but. it is like every loop I have to make a. commitment to say the story in my mind. that I'm creating is not the full truth. and can I take one more step and it is a. constant recommmitment to that process. of like I can do this. If I take one.

more step, that's evidence I can keep. going. And it's a it's the race has. blown up a lot over the last couple. years. And I think a lot of it has to do. with how accessible it is. Like if. you've never run. a mile in your life, it's more. digestible to say I can try and complete. one loop of four miles over I'm going to. sign up for a half marathon and do. months of training to get to that point. of being able to run 13 miles or 26.2.

miles. So you might have a lot of people. sign up just like, "Oh, I can do four. miles and I can at least do one loop.". >> Yes. And that's the beauty of it is. we're all on the same loop at the same. time. And so I go for almost four days. and somebody out there went for three. loops. And the relationship to hard is. equally as difficult for that person as. it is to me. It is both of us trying to. figure out how far can we go and then. when we come up with obstacles, how can. we just take one more step forward? You.

said like the story in your mind that. you start to create that I guess it's. like a story of like defeat or that I. can't like what what what what stories. do you notice your mind start to create? >> That's a great question. I I think it is. I'm not good enough. I'm not capable enough. I'm not worthy. enough. this race, the outcome of this race is. going to determine my value or not. Like.

all of these things that I know aren't. true. And and this is the power of having. friends like Cody who's here with us or. my wife or my friend Kellen who was out. there at the race is every time I get to. go back into the tent where they're. sitting, we I know in my heart of. hearts, even out when I'm on the course. and I'm 60 hours into the race and the. story starts to be crafted in my mind of. I'm not good enough. I get to go back to.

a tent full of people that say, not. through their words necessarily, but. through their actions and through the. trust we've built is like, "Dude, whatever happens here is not going to. change how we feel about you, how we. love you. We're going to be proud of you. no matter what. They just want me to be. able to make a decision I'm going to be. proud of at the end of the day and be. able to honor my word, honor my. commitment of taking that step when I.

know I'm able to. And so the the. narratives are constantly going of like. trying to convince myself that I'm not. done yet, even though every logical. reason to stop has presented itself. >> Wow. So it's almost like you stop and. get like an emotional hydration in a. way. >> Yeah. Wow. The So the funny thing is I. think about it in terms of these like. highs and lows of the first 24 hours are.

always the most difficult because I. haven't invested enough into the. experience to really see the benefit of. that outcome or going through that. hellish experience to be worthy or. valuable of any side. Once you get. through those 24 hours, you start to get. into the experience, and you start to. feel the effects, and you're like, "Okay, let me just kind of settle into. this this feeling, this experience, and. really test out what it's really trying. to teach me about myself." And there.

always comes a moment because after you. kind of get out of that first lull, you. start to slowly decay. And it's from a. physical side, it's a mental side, it's. a spiritual side. And there's always a. point in the race where I need to cry. >> Like crying is my release point of all. the tension, all of the burdens that I'm. holding on to, all of the. pressure that I'm putting on myself. about this, what this race means, what. it means about me, what it means for my.

family. And uh so 60 62 hours into this. race, I called Cody and I called another. friend and I was just like, I just need. to verbalize that this is so hard. >> This is so hard. And the problem with it. being so hard is I know that I'm not. going to stop. And because of that, that means I have. to keep walking into this pain and I. have to keep going towards it. And that.

sucks. That sucks. It's that realization. that you know it's going to be hard. You. can't imagine it being more difficult. than that. And yet you have to say, "I'm. going to stay right here." And when I. can verbalize that with somebody that. knows, loves, and trusts me and they can. sort of reinstate the belief of why I'm. there and I can cry, it's almost like. I'm rejuvenated in that moment because. I've released myself of all this. external pressure and I've let myself. and my body release itself of that.

tension and then I'm like, "Oh, okay. Let's go.". >> Oh, dude. Yeah. After you cry, you feel. great, which is crazy. And dude, I've. thought about this for a while actually. Crying is like if you're like crying. because like you did something didn't. happen. Like that's maybe one thing. But. crying it's almost like it's sweat from. the weight that we carry inside. Dude, it's like sweat out of my eyes. It's. like if anything deserves to sweat. >> It's this it's this discomfort. It's.

this weight. It's this like whatever. heaviness or whatever I'm holding. on to, >> you know, whatever I can't understand or. can't fathom or can't like metriculate. enough to be okay with me, you know, like those are the things that's like, please God, pull this sweat out of me. Like, let me release this. And if it. comes out of your eyes, that's fine, you. know? Like, >> yeah. >> Yeah, dude. But just to get that out, bro. I heard I heard uh I heard you say. that at hour 60 of an ultra, you'll find.

out who you are. >> Yeah. >> Not what you think, not what you. believe, not what other people think you. are. >> But you'll meet the person that you are. out there on that course. And that's why. you love them, dude. And no joke, bro, that got me out of bed to go work out, bro. It was 4:30 in the morning. I. probably should have stayed in bed, >> but it had me that hyped, dude. just. like hearing you talk about like this. relationship uh like with yourself and. just confronting that part of us um that. we don't want to just and just.

confronting this thing of quit, you. know? >> Yeah. I think it's it's so easy like it's easy. sitting here talking about the. experience and saying, "Yeah, I I am who. I say I am, but what does it actually. look like practically out in real life?". And and to be truth be told, it's easy. to do it in a backyard ultra for me. because I've had experience with that. and let's be honest, I get I get. applauded for it. When I do it out on.

the course and I have success with it, people will applaud me for it. And so. there's a certain level of selfishness. in that to be frank. But the true. essence of where I build that from and. how I'm able to do that out on the. course is like I I say this all the time. like I don't get to determine if I'm a. good friend. My friends get to determine. that. I don't get to determine if I'm a. good husband. My wife gets to determine. that. And they base that off of the. integrity and character that I have. And.

where am I getting that from? I get that. from scripture. I get that from Christ. And how do I live up to that? That is by. me continuously doing the little things. in my day-to-day life. >> Even outside of like the training, the. running, the stuff that gets me prepared. for that, >> but honoring my commitments in all the. little aspects of my life. Because this. conversation right here will show up in. my next race. Because the story that. will then be crafted is like you were on. the Theo Vaughn podcast and you talked.

about how you are a man of your word. >> Are you going to do that right now when. it's really tough to do so? M. >> and that's scary because. I can't run from that version of myself. out there. I have to make a decision. when it's most difficult, when it's most. challenging, and I have to say, I am. going to be that man or I'm not, or I'm. going to allow the excuses that are. rational justifications.

to convince me that I can walk away. before it's my time. >> Yeah, dude. to like yeah just just. hearing you have this relationship kind. of with your own integrity you know I. think it's such an important. conversation that needs to kind of be. happening in the world right now and I. shouldn't say that it's an important. conversation that I need to be happening. with myself you know um and and I'm so. I'm just so glad that uh that you're. here kind of sharing some of your. thought processes and and just us even. thinking about that yeah because I like.

to believe I'm one person but live kind. of like another person Yeah. >> And that creates a conflict in me. >> Yes. >> And it creates an uncomfortability. >> Yes. >> And at times it creates, >> you know, it's created an unreliab. >> Amen. >> And dude, that a lot of times it's like. when I'm at my when I'm with myself, that is um. >> it's not embarrassing, you know, but. it's just like uh.

I I can do better. Yeah. You know, and I. and I want to. So, I'm glad that I. notice it more, but it's it is an. uncomfort because it's like, yeah, it's. like I'm this, but this is what I do. And if those things aren't in meshed. with each other, then I'm going to I'm. going to be in a state of discomfort. Um, >> well, can I just say something on that? Like that. >> Does that make sense what I'm saying? >> It does 100%. And I relate to that uh so. completely because I'm sure at least.

what I'm pulling from that is there's a. a burden to that almost because there's. a recognition of there are parts of our. lives that we feel disconnected to our. action and our word. There creates this. discomfort and that can be burdensome. That can be like man I'm I'm not living. up to who I want to be and that can. almost bring us down. >> Yes. But there's a there's a flip side. of that of there. A lot of people don't. think like that. A lot of people aren't. aware of that. And there is a a a true.

blessing and one we're never going to be. perfect, Theo. Yeah. Like that. So we. got to remove that and give ourselves. grace and understand that. through the awareness of that we can. either beat ourselves down or we can. build ourselves up and say I can do. better. I will do better and if I fail. I'm going to continue to try and work to. to be better and have people in our. lives that are going to hold us.

accountable and build us up so that we. can still that we can continue to live. that way. Um but it's a blessing and a. curse because. when we are aware of that we can we can. man we can beat ourselves down. >> The trap. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. For me it's like the discomfort. kind of became just sometimes too much. like but also Yeah. It's like if I hold. myself to too high of a standard is some. type of of a perfection right that's. such a trap. >> We can't we can't do it. It's. impossible. >> And my dude so much of my life I would.

hold myself to this level that was. impossible to reach. Right. It was. impossible to reach. So that way I was. always failing. >> and then in always failing it would. match with some old belief of mine that. I was always that I was a failure. anyway. >> And so it's like it's weird like in. setting in in aiming for perfection. I. was always setting myself up for this. old magnet that was just deep inside of. me somewhere that was like you're you're. not worth it or whatever or uh yeah,

you're a failure, you're no good, you're. ugly, you're there's something wrong. with you, right? And so and yeah, man, that's been a big trap in my life and I. have more awareness about it now. I. think the place that I'm in right now is. a lot of the uh kind of giving myself. grace just for the times that I've held. myself to to uh to some level of. impossibility, >> you know, unrealistic expectations. >> Yeah. Do you ever feel like giving.

yourself that grace is. giving yourself. like cutting yourself slack that you. don't deserve? Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Let me think about it for a. second. Do I ever feel like giving. myself grace? >> Like there's this perfect standard that. you're holding yourself to and if you. fail. >> it's reinforcement that you're a. failure. >> Okay. >> And at least that's the story in in your. mind. And there could be another story. of like I'm going to give myself grace.

And the negative story of that is oh. you're just giving yourself grace. because you can't hold yourself to a. higher standard. Does that make sense? >> Yeah it does. I don't Yeah. I don't do. that. Okay, good. >> But I do I I do see what exactly what. you're saying. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I don't do that. I think it's just. like um. I just feel like I should always be able. to figure it out. >> It's this eternal thing of like man, why. can't you figure this out? You can like. >> it's not even like an encouraging thing. It's not like you can do this. It's just.

like why can't you figure this out? You. can figure you know. And so some of that. is realizing that I can't. But then also. there's a gift in it is that I don't. have to do things alone anymore. >> M. >> and that starting to realize that is. going to change my life. >> Where'd you learn that? >> I think just when I was a kid it was. just like uh yeah there was just nobody. to rely on. >> Yeah. >> You know and so I just you start to rely. on yourself I think. You know. >> I guess where did you learn that you. could rely like other people you could.

rely on other people. What was the. turning point for that? >> It's been coming new into my life. I. think I think some of it has come. through like recovery. I've been uh just. focusing back in on my recovery a lot. more. Um. probably developing a better. relationship with God and my higher. power, you know, and just realizing that. I'm not alone. >> Yeah. >> You know, and it's uh like we're. supposed to be talking about racing. Um. but this is okay. This the big Hey, this. is the biggest race in the world, >> you know. Um you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I do. >> Yeah. So, I think it's like that and.

just like Yeah. leaning on other people. with like what's really going on, >> you know, and not being afraid to tell. God what's going on, >> like to the word. >> Yeah. >> You know, not to be like uh even. sometimes words and language I'm afraid. to use that I wouldn't even want to use. around God or whatever. >> But then it's like you got to you know. what I'm saying? Like you got to put. them in the fine print of a prayer, you. know? So it's like. >> I think Yeah. It's like that. Yeah. It's. like I think kind of being louder with. the fine print of my prayers,

>> if that makes any sense. >> It does. Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. Thanks for let me think about. that. I didn't even know I needed to. think about that today, man. It's got me. sweating. >> That's good. >> That's okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, man. One of the things I was so. like that really like woke me up uh to. you was just some of your um just the. ways that you look at that stuff cuz. it's so important, you know, and I think. just having a bit big I think just. having a bigger relationship with. myself, like a real relationship like. what am I really doing here, you know? Like who do I you know what I'm saying?

like asking myself some of the tougher. things. Um, and uh, and I want to get I. want to get into that. And I know that. you know about your journaling practice. and that you have this that you've kind. of developed this relationship with. yourself and I think it's really cool. and I want to learn more about that. Um, but I want to learn more about the race. first. Is that okay? >> Yeah, that's totally cool. >> Okay, cool. Thanks for being here, dude. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. >> Um, so so you talked about like if you. finish a loop first. So the loop is. let's just let's just say it's four. miles to make it easy for people.

>> Cool. So the loop's four miles and then. at every hour on the hour you have to go. back out for the loop again. Yes. And. the contenders that continue to show. back up for that loop, they're still in. the race. Yes. >> And it keeps going on until only one. person can do the loop by themselves. >> Yes. >> Got it. And when you is is there. strategy in finishing that loop early so. you have time to um eat or or or hydrate. or communicate with your with your tent. or or do you want to finish like right.

up at the minute so you just go right. into the next run? Like take me into. some of those type of strategies. >> Yeah, there's. there's different strategies for. different people on how they like to run. the loops. I personally like to run the. loops in 50 minutes and pretty. consistently almost like a dog that's. being trained. I will come in at 50. minutes. I'll lay down immediately. I'll. sleep for 5 minutes. And when I say. sleep, sometimes it is me just laying. down and resting. Other times, sleep.

deprivation will take its hold and I. will get like these fragmented images. flickering like these photographs. cycling through my mind like I can't. even hold on to them. They're just. flipping so fast. And it'll it'll happen. for, you know, 5 6 minutes and then at. 57 minutes into the hour, there's a. loudspeaker that'll say 3 minutes, runners. 3 minutes. And that is your.

wakeup call, Theo. That is like I'm. awake enough to hear that, but also. asleep enough to like be getting rest. And so then I'll wake up at that alarm. I'll sit up. I'll sit in my chair. My. wife will feed me. She'll feed me uh. pancakes and syrup. >> Oh god. >> Steak and eggs at 3:00 in the morning. >> This is so Roman. >> Oh, it's great. It's great. >> Yeah. >> And uh and I'll eat for about 2 minutes,

2 and 1/2 minutes, and then I'll walk to. the start line. And you got to be in the. corral when that bell rings. So if I'm. in my tent and they ring that bell, I'm. out. So you got to be in that corral. >> And do you have a coffee or something. right before you go out? >> Oh, coffee. Red Bull. Um, >> you hear a. >> Oh, so you're just like a construction. worker. >> pretty much. Let's go. >> You should see the stuff I'm eating and. drinking out there. It is like, you. know, a kid in a candy store. You're. like, "Let's go.". >> And will you put a piece of gum in your. mouth? Do you keep something like that.

to keep you like going? Like, are people. putting zins in? Is that a thing that. people are doing? >> People do zins and nicotine out there. I. don't. Uh, I do it in my daily life, not. entirely proud of it, but I don't do it. during the race because I'm like, this. is a reward for after when it's all said. and done. Um, and it can kind of mess. with your bowel system out there, you. know? So, there's a thing called a poop. loop. >> So, you have as much time in that hour. to take care of, you know, sleep,

nutrition, going to the bathroom. Some. people, they'll know they'll need a poop. loop, so they'll run the loop in 45. minutes so they can take a poop and then. they'll be ready to go for that next. loop. >> Can you tell when someone's on their. poop loop? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. People like to announce. it, too. It's like, "All right, I'm. going for a poop loop on this one.". >> So, they'll just speed it up. Oh, that's. awesome. >> Or there's sometimes there's uh. portaotties right outside of the corral. So, as the loop starts, you're able to.

use the two portaotties that are right. there. and they'll sprint right for it. and uh just to get it out of the way on. the course. >> Yeah, they'll do it right there in the. first like few steps in the porta potty. and then they'll run, you know, if. you're going to run a poop loop, you. want to get it done before you have to. run fast. That'd be tough to carry with. you if you're trying to run pretty fast. >> Um but then there's other things like uh. I'll get in and I'll do a 45minute loop. and I will get entirely undressed. I'll.

stand in a bucket of water and my wife. will shower me like full service um. servant uh wife of like being able to be. there and help me through this entire. experience and she's like, "Yep, we got. to get you showered up. We got to get, you know, Aquafor and lube on your feet. and in between your armpits and stuff.". And. >> so is some of that like a caretaking. ritual almost in a way? >> Yeah. >> So there's an emotional value to that as. well. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like. >> cuz if you feel cared for then things.

are possible. >> 100%. And and in those dark moments. during the race really it's not. something that she says to me but it's. more of a look where I can say Lucy this. is really hard. and sometimes she'll say it more often. it's more of a look of like as long as. you're in that darkness I'm going to be. right there with you. >> And she'll just hug me. And it's like. that hug tells me everything's okay. because I'm not experiencing this. darkness alone. There's somebody.

>> who might not be out running the course. with me, but she's back here as. invested, as concerned, as you know, experiencing the hard times as I am. And. that allows me to keep going. >> cuz somebody is there with me. >> Yeah. You have the power almost of two. people when you're doing it. >> Yes. >> Because there's love and commitment. there. >> Yeah. That's beautiful, dude. Yeah. And. just the the the ability just like when. someone is like saying something's hard, just not even to tell them something and.

just give them a hug. >> Mhm. >> You know, my brother does that. sometimes. Like a couple times over the. years I've been going through it, dude. And I like one time I pulled over by. this doughut shop and like I was just. like what? just it was just like one of. those times I was like processing old. stuff and I was just like balling in my. truck and my brother was like uh and I. was just telling my brother like what. was going on and um he's like I can just. sit here with you. >> and not say anything you know he's like. I have like 20 extra minutes I'll just.

sit here with you and not say anything. >> that's beautiful. >> but I just want you to know that I'm. here you know and dude I melted bro. >> I like melted things that were like. hurting from like I don't even know like. my feet got smaller, bro. Freaking I was. just loser. I mean, I was just all. things came up. You know what I'm. saying? My shoes didn't fit later, but. it was just like like all just like all. this old stuff came up cuz it just that. kind of moment. It never happened. Not. trying I'm not trying to take away from. no your story. >> It's it's But that's what it's about.

Like that's why I run because I think. it's such a good depiction of how like I. I really feel this responsibility to. share what I experience on that course. and how I genuinely think I have the. success I have is because we get those. moments and that's the recipe for. success in life. Like how good did you. feel after those 20 minutes? It was it was honestly in a weird way.

one of the neatest times of my life. >> and you feel connected to your brother. there. There's and no words need to be. said and it's like what else what else. are we chasing after? Like the win is. great. Don't get me wrong. I love it and. it's part of the reason I'm sitting here. with you and all that's great, but like. what I take away from that race and the. races that I get to do is I get to. create stronger relationships with the. people that I love and do so in a way.

where we're all working towards this. same mission together. Not to win the. race, but to come out the other side of. it transformed by this experience. Bro, as you're saying that, like um we have. this guy coming on named uh Bishop. Robert Baron. Okay. >> Um he's an active bishop and he's also a. historian, like a Catholic historian. And then we had this uh guru on the. other day, Guru Dev. And both of them. I've heard say this thing that when. people have like a friendship or. relationship, that's fine. Like if.

they're friends, it's a friendship is. good, right? If there's a relationship. or a husband and wife, that's good. But. when they have a common interest. >> that moves them forward, those are the. things that keep people together and. keep friendships and relationships. together. So even as you're saying, it's. like you run, right? But it brings. people into your world and gives them. something also to care about. It gives. um it gives your friends something to be. associated with and like and then now. they're a partner in it and somehow it's. like so it's like I think when people.

it's like taking action in some way I. think helps um sometimes we don't. realize like the actions that some of us. take or uh are things that can keep us. together with someone else and then once. somebody else is on board now you're. taking that action together right and. you have like a journey in the world and. sometimes that journey just gets you. through a few years sometimes it'll get. through a lifetime, you know, >> and there's no there's no action too. small for that to happen. Like someone. doesn't have to go run 400 miles in.

order to experience that. They can just. sit in that car asking a brother for. help. And that is that is the most. important thing I get from running 400. miles. And we get to do that in our. everyday life if we take action like you. said. >> Yeah, man. So much of it's action. I. quit letting my thoughts like I start to. notice my thoughts more. I've been. meditating a lot and I'm just having. finally I get to see what's going on. Dude, I had no idea. I was a damn video. game and now every now and then. >> Yeah. >> I have the control in my hands.

>> and I'm like, "Oh, interesting.". >> Where even just a second I start to. notice some thoughts. I'm like, "Those. are trash, bro. These are recyclable. That's a thought that they played. yesterday." It's like, but I just I. don't know. I'm not saying I know. anything. I'm just saying like that's. just been like an experience I've been. having and it's been it's felt kind of. rewarding. Um yeah, it just felt like uh. I don't know. It's it's starting to make. me a little bit want to know myself even.

more. And that's a that's cool, but it's. also a little spooky. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you could wake up tomorrow and be. better at one thing, what would that be? For me, it would be probably. just listening better and not just. offering an idea. Just listening. If. somebody asked for a suggestion, maybe. offer something, but otherwise just be a. batch of ears. I think that's what I.

would like to do. That would just be. something I'd like to do better. Better. is a feeling defined by you. And for. better help, it's a better help. therapist who really gets you. It's a. focus on global emotional well-being. with thousands of therapists and. millions of members in over 100. countries. It's progress. Sign up and get 10% off at. betterhelp.com/theo.

That's betterhp.com/tho. Um, to get back to racing, how uh do you. plan the calories and hydration you're. going to intake before you go out there. and when you're out there? >> Yeah. Yes and no. I. So, we go into a race having. a plan that we hold loosely on to. So, so much can happen in four days of.

running. The weather can change. uh the you know my appetite can change. drastically. And so if I had a a certain. like I'm going to eat this this loop and. I'm going to have this amount of calorie. intake and I'm going to have this amount. of sodium to me that would stress me out. because if it didn't go according to. that exact plan, then I would think. something's wrong. I'm going to fail. And it's like. we are so adaptable.

because we are made that way by a. creator that we don't need to have. everything planned out to we're not. we're not built to know all the answers. And. >> so I approach a race very similarly to. that where it's like I have an idea and. obviously we bring the kitchen as Lucy. and I say we we literally bring the. kitchen like rice and beans and potatoes. and steak and you can mix and match all. of those to make a different meal. And.

my wife has gotten really good at just. predicting what based on my mood what. I'm in the appetite for. >> Yeah. Because it's almost like you come. home for dinner like fund times. Dear God. >> So what do you even feed someone that. >> who is this guy? >> Get a new job. You're putting us out. >> Uh so that you know it there's not a a. detailed plan. But anything that I I. guess the thing that I do most is like.

every loop I'm eating something. So, even if it's a handful of chips, >> okay, >> or um you know, the best is obviously. the steak and the the you know, uh. what's it called? Orange slices and eggs. and stuff like that. Like, >> but that's not too heavy on your system. in a race. >> Not really. I So, I train it by uh I'll. I'll run four or five miles to a diner. and I'll shove my face full of food and. then I'll run home and I'm like, "This. is race prep.". Um, but you get used to it out there,

you know, and that's kind of the way it. is. Um, yeah. >> Oh, you you were talking about like if. if things are too planned out that it. creates like once there's a plan and. then if things deviate a little bit, it. can create like a lot of uncertainty. It's almost like when you're learning to. ride a bike and the wheels start. wobbling. It's like this like, oh, we're. trying to like be too specific. >> Um, and especially in a race when things. can be different, right? Things. obstacles can come up like you're. saying. Um, but I saw that you didn't. even you barely even made it to the race.

on time. >> Yeah. >> Your flight was delayed. >> Yeah. So I that honestly that and I I'll. talk about it like that is what gave me. the confidence and further reinforced. this belief that the less know what you. can control and understand it's not a. whole lot, right? You can control your. energy and your attitude in a sit. situation and you can be prepared to. handle what's coming up, but ultimately. we have far less control than we think. we have. And so I the race started on.

August 14th at 200 p.m. German time. >> Wow. >> I had a. >> And the Germans are their freaking dial. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um. >> they don't even do a leap year. >> Really? >> I made that up. But it would seem like. nine. >> No, we're No, no, no. Nine. Nine. Nine. Nine. Nine. >> Um, so I had a presentation for a. company that I had committed to back in. March. >> Okay. >> And it was in Alexandria, Minnesota,

which is 2 hours north of where the. airport is. So that was at 8:30 in the. morning. Our presentation, get to the. airport for a 1:15 flight. And uh there. was a layover in Chicago and brother I. am on the tarmac sitting in the plane. for an hour and a half. >> and I'm watching my flight to Frankfurt. fly away. I'm like I need to be on that. flight because it's a 4-hour drive from.

Frankfurt which. >> So you just missed it? >> I just missed it because. >> Oh the layover flight. So you flew in. one. >> flew into Chicago. >> You were sitting on the term like. watching your flight to Frankfurt go. >> Yes. And uh so they rebooked me for a. later flight, but I wouldn't have been. able to make it to the race in time. So. I'm on the phone with Lucy and my friend. Kellen and the race director, Kim, and. we're like, "Okay, how do we make this. work?" And uh the plan shifted from. Frankfurt to flying me into Amsterdam, which is closer to first to now where.

the race was. And then Kim's like, "All. right, the only way that we're going to. get you to this race on time is if we. schedule a private jet from Amsterdam to. Mooster or Müster." And then it's an. hour drive to the race. So, I get on the flight, fly into. Amsterdam. I'm racing through security. and border patrol, and then I get to the. tarmac for the private jet, and I'm. explaining to the pilots who are like. who are our age, and they're just like.

so excited, telling them about what I'm. doing there and the situation. I'm like, "Dude, we got to go.". >> So, we're up in the air and we're down. I'm like, "Man, that was that was really. fast." And we're getting off the flight. and the the pilot looks at me with a. little smile on his face and he's like, "Don't tell anybody I said this." But. that 45minute trip that it usually takes. to get here. We got you here in 20. minutes. >> What? >> And he's like, "You got to promise me. one thing. You won't quit on that.

course.". >> Really? >> And what's crazy, so Kim's dad picked me. up. We drove an hour to the race and I. was there 15 minutes before the race. started. Was everybody already there? >> Everybody was there in the starting. corral. They had already done pre-race. announcements and there's a there's a. photo of uh you know a bunch of us. Everyone's in their race gear. They got. their water bottles and everything and. I'm standing in jeans with a suitcase. >> So I quickly got changed. I did a quick.

shower, got my race stuff on and uh by. the time I got into the crowd, there was. two minutes to go to the race. >> Did it almost add like a new freedom in. a way? Oh, it did. Yeah. >> And you But the fact that you're able to. process that as that, that's the. important thing. Like. >> if if when a moment gets tough, if we. can like manipulate it enough to have. our perspective be uh have hope and. possibility in it cuz some Yeah. Cuz a. lot of times it can go the other way. You know, you easily could have got on. that other ship where it's like this is.

I'm not going to be you're barking. orders. You're being like this and this. and now it's a nightmare. >> Yeah. What do I have control of? That's. what I kept trying to remind myself of. this situation that was happening of. like I don't control the flights. >> That's hilarious. All those guys are so. happy. You're freaking stoked. >> They're like this guy will be here for. one day. >> So I had put it in the back of my mind. that all of those a lot of those guys. are friends. So more of like the people. I didn't know. I was like everybody's.

going to discount me. Everybody's going. to see that I'm I'm not going to make it. that far because look at all this. I. mean, even though I was doing a a decent. job of controlling my emotions, it's still like an emotional roller. coaster, you know, and getting to that. race, it was like, this is a perfect. example of how this weekend is going to. go because if I can go through this. experience with a smile and see it as.

every obstacle is just an opportunity to. try something new and experience this. adventure, in a different way that is. not the way I envisioned it. It's not. the way everybody else envisioned it. But who's to say this is a worse way to. experience it? >> Yeah, that's the trap I've gotten in a. lot. It's getting a little better, but. that's the trap sometimes. It's like. this isn't how it's supposed to be. >> and you can you can almost feel your. body get like tight over it. That. feeling just sucks, man.

>> Yeah. Well, you get out of after a while. you just get tired of you like this has. to be a better way. And there is, you. know, that's a crazy thing. There is a. better way. Um, but I think it takes. practice and noticing when you get to. those moments and then being able to. start to, you know, kind of slowly. adjust. Um, again, I'm not preaching. this just kind of the like, >> yeah, you just can't hold on so tight, you know, um cuz you get exhausted. You. hold on to anything so tight, you get. exhausted, you know. >> Uh, what is happening to your body.

during a race? Right. So, like are there. parts where your bo like are your. muscles just like vibrating? Like do. your feet get swollen? Does your like. what what kind of happens as you go. through? Cuz four days of racing is. that's a lot of racing. >> Like that's the most racing, you know? >> Like that's kind of the most racing. >> It is the most racing. Um, so. thinking about it, um, I kind of think.

about it. I'm not a big car guy, but. like if you take a minivan across the. country, you're going to go at a. different pace than if you take like a. Corvette. And if you're taking a. Corvette, you're going to have to let. that engine cool down because you're. you're revving it so hot. >> And so I'm taking the minivan across. across the country in these races. And. what I mean by that is I'm it's like a. 5050 jog walk. Like I'm walking a lot of.

this race because I'm trying to play the. long game of how can I slowly. deteriorate my body over a long period. of time instead of coming out hot and um. and having that engine burn super quick, >> right? Because you just have to finish. the miles within the hour. >> Yeah. Okay. Got it. You could do it as. fast as you want or like you could do 58. minute loops and just essentially walk. as much as you possibly can. And there. are times where I'll do that. Um, but. the body it's not so much of a like a.

muscles will cramp or it's more of like. fatigue and. you know the feet start to hurt and they. start to swell. I mean, I still got. blisters all over my feet from the race. because of just the constant friction. Um, so it's it's not like a muscle. soreness. It's more of like a body. fatigue and everything's wearing down. And the thing about this race is it was. on an old military base. So 65% of the.

course was this concrete. >> and so you're like your friends were. just like h sore and achy and. >> and really feeling it. A lot of people. had hip problems and man, I saw a KT. tape, which is like this tape that's. supposed to like help keep things in. place. One dude had it all the way up. his neck and down his back down like I'm. like, "Brother, baby, it's time to call. it." He's getting airlifted out of his. chair. Like they brought in a helicopter.

just to lift him up now. >> Oh, that's crazy, dude. I would have. that stuff. You would just see my eyes, dude. My whole body would be that tape, dude. I would have my whole body taped. up. >> You'd be a mummy out there, >> bro. I would be just a hopeful mummy. That's the only thing I would be. Um, so. it's not like your muscle or your. muscles start palpitating like or do. they like It's not like that. >> No. Cuz. >> do you get scared of your heartbeat or. something like is there any like things.

that start to happen that you get scared. of that your body like can my body like. my actual body. I haven't so far reached that point and. I think it's really important for me the. runner to know that limit because I. never want to put that responsibility on. somebody else. >> Oh, so then your wife's responsible, your friend, like suddenly they have to. make a decision because you went too. far. >> Yes. Like my responsibility is to know. my limit. And sometimes that might be,

at least in the past when I was just. starting out with this, I thought my. limit was one thing and then I'd wake up. the next day and I'd be like, man, I'm. really disappointed that I thought that. was my limit. >> And so it's a trial and error of trying. to figure out what that limit is. And. but I it's not like I I would never want. to put that responsibility on my wife to. keep encouraging me to go out and then I. end up in the hospital, >> right? So, um, I haven't found that.

limit. I don't know what it is, but I. have a a hope and a faith that like I'll. know that when it comes up. I I'll, you. know, a great example is Harvey Lewis. >> He's another runner. >> He's another runner, 50 years old. He's. a legend in the sport. He's a guy I. highly respect. I love this man. Um, he's set the world record in this in. this format. And one of the things that. he said after the race, because he bowed. out at around 40 or 50 loops, um, and he.

had just got done running the Badwater. 135, which is another extreme race, but. he said that the only thing that was. would keep him in the race was his ego. >> And I thought that was of this race, you. >> of this race. He when he tapped out he's. his body was just banged up from a race. he did two weeks before and he had made. the statement that the only thing that. was keeping would have kept him in the. race would have been his ego. >> Oh, that's a fascinating. >> And to hear someone like that who I look. up to who's a legend who can make that.

decision. >> and he's vegan. He's doing all. vegetables. >> He's doing it all on vegetables and. Coca-Cola, baby. >> Dude, I eat a bunch of mushrooms. I. can't even Dude, I can't even make it. out of my cousin's basement, dude. He's. got like he's So after he bowed out, he. gave me a bunch of his juice and I was. like, man, maybe this is what's keeping. he's got carrot juice and beet juice and. I was like, this stuff's good. But just. watching him make that decision gave me. confidence of like I don't need my ego. to keep me in a race.

>> Got it. So even if the greats are making. a decision like that and their thought. process can can kind of like have a. scale that understands that then as a. runner who really cares about this. hopefully I'll have the same scale. you're saying. >> Yeah. And and exactly and and I think to. like further that is like why am I out. here? >> Am I here to win the race? Because if. I'm here to win the race then it's worth. dying to win this race. But if I'm not.

here to win the race, if being here is. something deeper and more meaningful, then the outcome of this race doesn't. determine my experience here. >> In fact, I respect Harvey Lewis so much. more because he made that decision. because he didn't put something external. or materialistic above what's truly. important to him. And I respect him even. more for that. >> Yeah. Like I think a lot of like in my. own life I've had things where it's like. and I'm not trying to sound like a.

downer. Sometimes I talk about stuff and. I think it seems like such a downer like. my life. >> I'm not getting that impression. >> You're not? No. Okay. I just try to. share about like things that I think. about or feel. Um. >> and sometimes those things are like you. know you're navigating kind of the other. side of like pretending everything's. awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um but it's like sometimes it's like I. thought Yeah. Just that the success like. that will be enough. you know that and. and and and with that as the focus. >> or like you do start to lose track of.

the relationship that you're having with. the experience, you know. >> Um but I I haven't done a bad job of. that, but I I have thought that at times. it's like well if I can just pro it's. like proving myself here's what it is. It's like proving myself but to who? >> Like who was I pro like cuz I don't. always know if it was to me. >> Yeah. >> Sometimes I don't know who it was to. >> Yeah. But it was just like and sometimes. it could just be this societal arrow. that you get put on as a child and shot.

through towards this prove yourself. Yeah. >> You know, um but that's something that. um that I that I reflect on sometimes. And then and and then I think even just. like now I'm just starting to see a. little bit more like, yeah, who do I. want to prove things to as my life goes. on, you know? Um yeah, it's just an. interesting conversation. And some of it. is just like, yeah, what are these. conversations we have with ourselves? because they're they're the most. important conversation, >> you know, and so often I don't really. have them or I don't I don't even I have.

them, but I don't even notice what they. are too at times. Um, >> you know, it's you have a beautiful way. of creating imagery that I so much. appreciate. Uh, the arrow analogy of I. think oftent times we think that so like. that you you've been shot out into the. trajectory. It's like I wasn't even the. one pulling the string. >> Yeah. >> And we forget that when we take control. of the bow, that's not the o only arrow. we have in the in the bag.

>> We get to pull out another one and let. go of that identity or that journey or. that path that we didn't even someone. else created that path for us, you know? And so it's like. I've tried and dude I'm not perfect at. this. I fail at this and and I have the. thing I'm appreciative of is I have. people that help ground me in this of. like the success is great, but ultimately like there's only one. audience that matters and that's God.

>> Yeah. >> And we aren't going to live up to that. perfect standard, >> but we can do our best. But know that. like no matter how much success I have. in running, it's not going to make me. more valuable as a person. No matter how. much I try and do good, I'm not going to. be perfect. And there's no way. And the. thing is, we don't have to be. We're not. called to be perfect. We're called to. recognize our own imperfection and.

strive to be a little bit better. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just. it's about this. Yeah. What is this. relationship that I have with myself? And also having a relationship with a. higher power, I think, helps you start. to have a relationship with yourself. Um. I think anyway I'm just kind of. navigating some of that space, you know, trying to navigate it at a deeper level, you know. Um. there was a loop out there. You get. you've been kind of criticized online. I. don't know if it's criticized, but. you've been uh let's say and that's not. fair to say. Maybe it is. You've been.

documented online as having sort of this. wild loop. I think it was loop 87. >> where it was down to you and uh Elo. >> Yes. um another competitor and he's German. >> Yes, he is. >> Um and you guys were the last two left. Yeah. >> In this race and there's a part where. it's like the camera that they have to. show this. It kind of makes you wonder. if it's even real or if like Israel set. this up. You you don't know exact Yeah. You don't know exactly what's going on,

but there's this infrared camera of you. two guys on a trail. I want to show it. right here. Um it's short. That's the. only thing we can tell you right now. Staying very still and very static. >> And there they go. >> Oh no. >> It's one of you guys stopping when the. other one stops and the lady goes, "Oh. no." And the way she said it, the way it. connected in everybody's mind, it's the. same way when you're watching one of. those Animal Planet videos and the.

cheetah comes in and gets the other. animal, like the animal that can't get. out of the river and it's like she Oh, no. She said it just like that. So, I. think that that kind of got cycled into. people's like energy with it. But some. people would say it looks like you could. be stalking or like you're kind of like. monitoring your prey or you're like. you're pan panamiming, right? And um and. the Yeah. What was going on there? Like. what's going on out on the course and. and what do and what psychology are.

people using out on the course out there. if there's any? Yeah. >> Um when it comes down to just a couple. competitors. >> Yeah. I think in the backyard it is not. simply a physical. adventure or competition. It's physical, it's mental, it's emotional, it's. spiritual. And the people that do the. best in this sport are able to handle. all four of those things. And when it. gets down to, you know, all throughout.

the day, everybody is playing a mind. game. Whether they know it or not, they're trying to look stronger than. they are. You know, they're coming out. and they're doing faster loops when. maybe, you know, it's just a way to. posture how strong they're doing. >> Hiding limps. >> Hiding limps. Um. >> secretly vaping. >> Funny enough, I did a race in June and a. guy was vaping. I was like, "Brother, how are you doing this?" He's like, "I'll tell you how I'm doing this.". >> Yeah, dude. On cherry lime ice, dude.

That's how I'm doing it. And we'd like. to sponsor that guy. Yeah. See a thick. mod, too. It was like not like a jewel. or something. It was like puffing. clouds. >> Oh, like one of those like the front of. a train. Like one of those big dogs. jeepers. >> It was crazy. >> Oh, that dude's pushing coal through his. lungs, bro. >> I don't want to mess with that guy. >> Yeah, that's this guy. That's one of. those West Virginia backyard runners, bro. Dang. Look at that dude or woman. >> Um,

but uh. >> so yeah, loop loop 87. It was uh an. opportunity to be competitive in a way. that the sport has always had but maybe. hasn't been televised in that way. before. Um and I think the thing I go. back to is like, you know, you don't. tell Dennis Rodman how to play. basketball. >> Yeah. >> You prepare to play Dennis Rodman. Um, and I from all of the sports that I've. ever played, I've always been a guy who.

likes to use my energy as a way to. celebrate the activity that I'm doing. and. use competitive advantages here and. there to. gain an advantage. And that's really all. it was. It was uh, you know, I saw him. sprint out of the gate, sort of trying. to show me how strong he was. and uh I. said I'm right here with you. >> And were you guys talking? Does he speak. English? >> He speaks a little bit of English. >> Okay. But there was obviously even if.

there's not verbal communication, there's like um communication of. ambiance or peacocking in a way. There's. like that kind of energy, right? >> Yeah, there was uh I mean he was there I. spoke no words to him out there on that. loop. Um, in fact, I think him and I had. one conversation all day and that was. when there were four or five people left. and I was like, "Hey, this is awesome. that we're still here. We just made it 3. days of running." Um, but out out on. that loop, yeah, there were no words.

exchanged from me on my end. He did sort. of say like, "What the what the heck are. you doing?". and uh and his I think way of trying to. show his strength was. >> uh speeding up like he's a really fast. runner and uh I think he tried to break. me off in that moment and that was his. form of communication to me that okay if. we're playing this game you're going to. have to keep up with me and I played. that game back with him. >> and so your energy was just what like. I'm right here still.

>> yeah I'm I'm right here I I can run fast. loops. Dude, it reminds me like uh I'm friends. with this uh UFC fighter Dustin Porier. He's um and one thing that I always ad. like. one thing I like that he does is when. he's even if he's over on his side. during the like uh on the breaks in. between the rounds, >> even if he rests with his hands on his. knees, he always is looking over at his. opponent. And I think about that every. time like I'm in the gym, whatever I'm. doing, like if I start to break down,

like rest a little bit, like just to. pick my own stature back up, just to. remind myself, just a physical reminder. of like I'm going to keep going, right? Um he always does that. Yeah, I think. that's that seems normal to me that. people do that kind of stuff, you know? I mean, have you seen it a lot out there. with other racers like when you guys get. down to just two guys? Yeah, there's. there's all like Harvey and I, we've. raced against each other three times now. this year. And uh I was at a race here. in Franklin at the end of June called.

the Midstate Mile. It's a onem loop. every 20 minutes until one person's. left. >> So wait, let me say it again. It's a. onem loop. >> every 20 minutes. >> Every 20 minutes until one person's. left. >> Yeah. So it's still that format, but. like not four miles every hour, one mile. every 20 minutes. But. >> you must get a ton of entrance in that. into that one. Well, the kicker with. this one is it's in Franklin and there's. 340 ft of elevation per loop. So, you're. climbing this massive hill and then. you're descending down and then you're. climbing another massive hill and you're.

descending down. So, it's super. challenging and that's the one where I. saw the dude puffing clouds. That's what. was blowing my mind cuz it wasn't like a. a flat course where's a friendly jog. It. was like you're huffing and puffing up. this hill. I'm like, how are you doing. this, >> dude? It's just somebody from. Goodletsville, dude. That's all it is, bro. It's chill. >> But Harvey would do things where he. would sprint out. >> Okay. >> He would sprint out of the gate and uh. that was his way of saying, "I could be. here all day.". >> Got it? >> You know, and so there's all this little.

stuff that's going on. Crews are trying. to gather information from people, you. know, all this little stuff. Every. movement and posture that you have out. there is. you. knowingly or unknowingly sending a. signal to yourself and to other people. how you're doing. >> Bro, that's the world too. And. especially if you are like I'll notice. if I do fasting, dude, on the third day, dude, I can tell you if you're going to.

have grandchildren or not, right? you. just know what's go like every little. thing means something like. >> like communication is so much easier. because it's uh it doesn't feel sedated. by kind of food and stuff like that. Does it feel like a level like that when. you get to like when you're running at. like after you've been running for so. long? Does everything feel like very. acute and real or does it feel just. bizarre? exactly how you feel on day three is how. it feels on day three and four for me.

out on the course. Like I don't. understand. um the last two loops of the course and. after the race, the communication that I. was having with my team and then you. know I was talking uh to everybody uh. about my race afterwards and and gave. this speech. None of that was me. I have. no idea where it came from. I say it was. the Holy Spirit because I could not. think straight out there. But this was. there was this general peace that I had.

not experienced really in any place in. my life. And all I could. it wasn't like I was thinking. I was. just experiencing and living in that. moment without any expectation or. pressure or desire to leave that spot. I. just wanted to be right there. It was. like I could feel the experience and. feel the importance of it, but also step. outside. I've heard uh comedians talk. about this. I'm maybe you've experienced. this. I'm sure you have, but like where.

you're on stage and you're almost seeing. yourself have the experience. and you're it's not affecting you from. like a a negative like it's not getting. into your subconscious like you're just. you're you're experiencing it and you're. aware of the experience and how. beautiful it is, >> but you're still in it. >> And you're still way in it. >> and it's like like. >> that's pretty cool. It's a twofer. >> Awesome. Yeah, >> that's a twofer. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude.

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valorreoverycoaching.com. Thank you. Um, we hear a lot about hallucinations. while running actually. Um, have you. experienced some of that? >> I have. Yes, >> you have. >> Yeah. >> Anything good? >> Um, I saw teddy bears hanging from a. tree one time. I saw some Native. Americans. I saw. um there was a race where there was a.

road loop and there was an entire middle. school of kids sitting cross-legged. cheering me on putting their hand out. for a high five. >> No way. >> It was wild. There was a Are you a Harry. Potter guy? >> Enough. Yeah. >> So, you know those big spiders? Yes. There was one race where it was through. a a tunnel of trees and all of the trees. started to turn into these massive. spiders.

>> It was nuts. >> God, >> it was, you know. Yeah, that exactly. >> Oh, yeah. That's them Snoop Dogs right. there. >> And then, >> dude, that's that Tim Burton. That's beautiful. Wow. >> But then uh there was like out on in. Germany. It wasn't like a It wasn't like. a physical depiction of anything like. that. It just felt like I had been, which is weird to say cuz I was on that. course for days on end, but it like felt. like I had been on that course before,

>> like this nostalgia. feeling was not like something in. passing. It was like this constant state. of nostalgia of like, I've been here. before. >> I've seen this course before. >> and I couldn't explain it. Dude, I think. everybody else could explain that you. just you just run around it. 300 times. >> Yeah, I think it's understandable. But yeah, I mean that's Yeah. Um, can.

you bring up different hallucinative. experiences that happen uh people was. jogging. of the strange and intriguing world of. running hallucinations? I just want to. get a few of these out. Um, Emily Foy, ultra trail dum blah. It says, "I was. filling up my water bottle from a. sheep's trough." Red flag. >> I think that caused the hallucinations. >> I mean, that's a good call, dude. First.

of all, if I'm drinking water with. sheep, I'm already not doing good. Uh, I. was filling up my water bottle from a. sheep's trough on the mountain at mile. 70. I recalled when I saw tiny severed. heads at the bottom. I looked around at. my fellow runners expecting a similar. reaction in panic, but they were all. utterly calm, filling bottles and. chatting. Oh, that would have pissed me. off the most. I'm staring at baby heads. and a trough, and you're over there just. >> giggling. >> Yeah, just talking about how the Vikings.

are doing. Get out of town. Try as I. might, I couldn't make the heads turn. into stones, which my rational mind knew. they must be. I couldn't stomach. drinking. turned around, apologized to a. golden retriever, aka a pile of dried. grass, and I tripped o over and. continued up the mountain. It was broad. daylight. That's that free I'm. trying to get on. This is another one. Jen Scottney, uh, North Traverse Race. I. was 120 mi into a 190 mile race and. hadn't slept. Going into the second.

night, I started hallucinating really. badly when it got dark. My head torch. was bouncing light onto the limestone. walls where cats and human faces were. appearing. The night was so clear the. stars were twinkling all around, but I. was hallucinating that they were around. my shoulders. um on my own at 2 a.m. Everyone else. tucked up in bed and here I was in the. Yorkshire Dales shouting at the stars to. get back into the sky. That's mad. Let me see one more here. This is John. Hunt. I was going into the second night, so it was pretty wasted by then. And I.

was on a country road and this is in. Tames. Uh I was on a country road with. trees either side. I was about 150 miles. in and remember thinking the trees. looked really strange with weird bits. hanging down. So I stopped and had a. closer look. To my amazement, it looked. like someone else had strung up. thousands of rotisserie chickens as far. as the eye could see. I was so confused. by it that I took a closer look and went. to grab one. Alas, it was just a leaf. Huh, dude. One time I was with my.

ex-girlfriend and we went bike riding. This was in Germany. And dude, we went. in this park and some dude, he was like. a I guess like a wiener guy or whatever. He was standing in the park and like he. had he had no clothes on, right? And he. was like this tall white guy. He was. like and he was like kind of spinning. his wiener at us, dude. And dude, this. is the worst part. Her freaking bike. broke down right there. And I'm like, and I thought she was kind of doing it. on purpose just to like be around this. guy, like not around this guy's winner,

but like to see it more or whatever. And. then the bike was like really broke, dude. And I'm like trying to like So. then we had to like walk this bike, but. it the back tire wouldn't move. So we. had to like drag walk this bike past. some dude like like a legitimately. spinning his wiener like at a decent. gate. >> like creating vortex around that thing. Like I would say this, a butterfly. couldn't land on it, right? >> A hummingbird couldn't even land on it, Cully. >> So.

>> that's some. >> But anyway, I don't know why I told you. that. It just So that's why I don't run. >> Ah, >> but uh anyway, I just wanted to kind of. get that out there. Um. are there people that who who does this. sport, Mark? Like is it business guys. that just are looking or become like um. end up making a ton of money and they're. looking for something new to do, right? Is it uh like is it a certain body type. like um who are the are there like.

stereotypes, you know, and not to say. there's anything wrong with that, we're. all somewhat of a stereotype. Are there. stereotypes that are out there kind of. do you see? >> Yes and no. Um, there's a few different stereotypes, I. guess. Like the business person who's. that go-getter that. they have to do everything a million. miles an hour. That's that's also that's. a person that's out there is like, I'm. an achie I'm an achiever. I'm going to. go achieve this other thing in this. world called running and ultrarunning.

There's also people that, you know, they struggled. It's a big. place of recovery. uh people that have. struggled with addiction, alcohol and. they have that addictive personality and. running has been the cure for them to. not have that outlet. You know, running. does a great job of spiritually lifting. you from maybe the burdens of everyday. life. And so I think a lot of people.

find refuge in that. And you know, and. there's people people like me who who. really have this desire to see what. they're capable of. And I think, you. know, Ryan uh the driver, he he asked a. really great question yesterday and it. was on this same line of thinking of do. you think anybody is capable of what you. did out there? Um, I think the short. answer is it's it's it depends because.

there's a guy Mike Egan who is in a. wheelchair. He's lost both of his legs. uh cuz he was in service uh for the. United States and he did the BPN go one. more which I was doing in April and he. did this last soul race in Germany. >> and he's in a wheelchair the whole time. >> He's in a wheelchair the whole time. >> and. >> shout out Mike. If you would have told. me before I ever met Mike what do I. think he's capable of be based on my own.

imperfections I would have said I don't. how can he go more than a few loops and. then I witnessed him persevere and. overcome every obstacle on that course. until rain totally destroyed it in the. one in April and he was dragging his. wheelchair just the heart of a lion. >> and he comes out in in this race he sets. a PR I think he went 31 or 32 hours at. this course. >> No way. >> And. >> let's go, Mike. >> And so I see a man who does not allow.

his circumstance or the things that have. happened to him limit his belief about. who he can become. >> Amen. >> And so I think anybody who has that. belief about who they are, like I look. up to Mike so much because he has shown. me what is possible when you face. extreme obstacle. M. >> And so I think anybody who has that. belief about themselves, then they can, as Mike said, find peace in the storm. because they're willing to put. themselves out there no matter what. And.

so I think anybody who has that ability. to look at life as this is not happening. to me. This is happening for me. I'm. going to figure it out. And Mike always. says forward, onward, onward we go. through the obstacle. And that's who I. think is like that's who it attracts at. the end of the day is people who want to. find out who they are. >> Amen, dude. Wow. That's fascinating. And. so even like if the course is uneven and. stuff, he still manages it. >> Yeah. He finds a way. >> God. >> And what's funny about this too is.

Harvey Gosh, Harveyy's a great guy. I. could talk about him all day, but in the. midst of what happened, uh, the trail, so 40% of it was trail and there were. rocks all over it and Mike was having a. hard time going from the concrete to the. rocky trail. So over the course of, you. know, 40 hours, Harvey got a group of us. together and would take one rock off the. course every loop. So Harvey picked up.

like 250 rocks over the course of his. flight. >> Just trying to make it more fair. >> Just to make it easier for Mike, >> right? To make it more fair. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because it's kind of like, dude. Yeah. Have him like give him at least every. now and then give him a little side. alley. >> You know what I'm saying? The guy's. earned it. >> Give him a Hob. >> Gosh, I can't imagine how difficult that. is. >> Wow. That's fascinating, man. >> But like that guy is the man, >> right? Thank you for sharing about him. Yeah. Can you pull that article up.

again, Trevan, please? A Texasbased. veteran now holds the Guinness World. Record for most miles covered in a. wheelchair in 24 hours. On November. 10th, 2025, Mike Egan, a bilateral. ampute and wheelchair user. And what. does bilateral mean? It means I don't. know. >> By I don't know, both legs. >> Yeah, I said don't know. But covered. 152.37 miles over 21 hours. Wow. completing 720 rotations around the. course at Morgan's Wonderland Sports.

Complex in San Antonio with his family. there to support. Let's go. >> Oh, he has two children, too. That's. awesome. >> Yeah, >> he's a former Marine, man. Thank you for. your service, dude. Wow. Mike Eaggan. Oh, look at him there with that stash. rocking, bro. Mikey got that word curtain on him. Let's do it, dude. Bro, thank you, bro. Thanks for sharing about him. >> Yeah. Um I I want to get into like what. are some of the different types of. courses that they have in backyard. running? Like what are some of the.

tougher ones or more unique ones just so. that uh listeners can understand like. what backyard ultras are like? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The backyard ultra space is still. growing. Um one of the more tougher. courses is the original one that happens. in Bellbuckle, right? It's Bellbuckle. >> Bellbuckle here in Tennessee. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's called Big's. Backyard. the originator Laz put it on I. think in his backyard and it takes place. every year. It's I think 400 feet of.

elevation per loop. And so there's. courses that you know I know of one that. I do in in Wasau, Wisconsin that's uh. 500 or 610 ft of elevation per loop. >> So elevation adds a ton of. >> Oh, it makes it so so much more. challenging. So much more challenging. So you could have like a flat course. like BPN or this course in Germany where. it's going to be demanding for for. different things like a flat course. you're not changing your running motion.

very much so it's just staying in one. place for a long period of time and that. causes friction there but then there's. higher elevation courses where the race. might not go as long but you're climbing. you know essentially Mount Everest in 24. hours and Your quads are banged up, your. hamstrings are banged up, your muscles. are a lot more banged up. Um, and the. more this sport grows, the more we're. going to see challenges like, "Hey, man,

come to Minnesota in January. Let's see. what a course looks like going across a. frozen lake, you know, or go to Arizona. in, you know, uh, June or July, which. might be a little bit dangerous, but. you'll I think what we'll start to see. more of is like what you see in. motocross or some of these other sports. where the temperature and environment. you're in will dictate the course. environment, which will determine what. strengths and weaknesses an athlete.

truly has. >> Wow. So, it's going to start to see more. strengths and weaknesses, uh, a. disparity of strengths and weaknesses. because, uh, more, um, variables will be. introduced. Oo, that's going to be. interesting. >> So, we're still on the we're still on. the the cusp of what that could be, but. a lot of the courses generally are. probably within 100 to 300 ft of. elevation per loop. >> Got it. And what are some of the severe. temperatures that you've already been. in? Have you been in any snow winds or. whatever? >> Not in the backyard. But I did a race in. January called the Arrowhead 135. And.

that's a a historic Minnesota race. Takes place in International Falls, Minnesota, which is right on the border. of Canada. >> Is that by Lake Itasa at all? >> Uh it's near there. Near there. But um. >> cuz the Mississippi River starts right. up there. You can jump right across it. >> Yeah, you could. >> Dude, some lady took me there one time. She was awesome. If she I don't know if. she listens sometimes. Um, and I won't. say her name, but she took me there one. time and let me jump over the river.

>> Oh, really? >> Which was pretty cool. Yeah, cuz I've. eaten things out of that river. >> Out of the Mississippi River. >> Yeah. >> Hopefully more upstream. >> Yeah. I mean, I've had some. >> downstream it gets a little bit. >> I mean, look, I put my tongue downstream. a few times, brother. It doesn't end. well, you know? So, one day at a time. Uh Oh, that's you right there. Yeah. >> Do an ice bearding. >> So, it's a a race. You run 135 miles. You got to carry a bunch of supplies on.

you. >> Okay. >> On a sled. And uh the temperature this. year was minus 30° at the start line. Fahrenheit. >> And how many miles is that? >> That's 135. So, that took 30. >> Oh, so that has a finish line or you. >> That has a finish line. So, I I I. haven't done any extreme weather in the. backyard. Got it. But I have experience. doing extreme weather at least in this. capacity. >> So wait, that was negative 30 degrees. >> That what that what you just saw was. from last year's race which was 15 to.

20°. This year's race was minus 30°. So. I've done it twice. >> And how much does that affect things. that that weather difference? Do you. even notice it after the beginning or. what is that like? >> Um. >> or is it more of just a visual effect? Well, the the warmer race, I think, is. more difficult because the snow becomes. like sand, so it's hard to your feet. kind of move around. And it's nice. because you're not as concerned about. frostbite, but when it's super cold, it's like concrete running on and like a. softer concrete, but it feels much. better to run on. But man, my hands were.

getting cold. I was shoving them in my. pants all race long, just trying to keep. them warm. And it really becomes a a how. can I moderate the temperature of my. body so that I'm not dying out here. >> type of thing. >> And does it ever get so you ever run so. much it just feels like homoerotic or. anything out there? Like does things. start to happen where you're like I just. ran like out of my own sexuality or. something like you know what I'm saying? How weird does things get like that like. mentally? >> Yeah. It does. It never turns sexual in. my mind, but that's something I can.

think about on my next one and get back. to you on. >> I mean, >> if you're really interested about that, >> get back to me. I'm just wondering like. if you're out there, >> I don't see guys shaking their wiener. like you do when you run, dude. >> Bro, it was one guy and I think my. girlfriend even set it up or whatever. Anyway, I don't even know what we're. talking about. Yeah, I just didn't know. cuz sometimes at certain altitudes and. something people are more likely to be. gay. Different things can happen. I. didn't know if um people can run so much. that you could like morph or whatever.

Uh oh, I I want to get a little bit of. your backstory. Um so you you were a. allstate high school athlete and you. played college football. >> Yep. >> When did running start for you? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I played collegiate football. and uh lacrosse. Um, and running started. for me the spring of my senior year when. it was club lacrosse. We actually played. in Nashville. We played three games. >> Let's go. >> And we lost two out of the three games.

One of them was to good old Kennesaw. State. >> Nuh-uh. From Georgia. >> Yeah, if that's where Kennesaw State's. from. >> I don't know where it's from, >> but hey, we'll go with it. Kennesaw. State, Georgia. And uh, we never lost to. Kennesaw State in our program's history. So, it was a tough one and it was the. first game of the weekend, but we're, you know, busing back. It's a 24-hour. bus ride back and I'm sitting in the. back of the bus like, "We suck. I suck.

We're not going anywhere. Throwing a. pity party." And my brother sent me the. Joe Rogan David Gogggins podcast. And. I'm just listening to this man defecate. down the back of his leg, pissing blood, and he's getting up and he's running. another 30 miles to complete a 100 mile. run around a track. And it was the first. time it had planted a seed in my mind. about. some person who was not allowing their. situation.

to have them throw a pity party. Like we. lost the first two games of the year. We. still had a whole season ahead of us. and I'm listening to this man break. himself and not make an excuse about it. >> So, the first thing I did when we got. back at three in the morning was I went. out for a run. >> Um, and that sort of just continued over. the spring. >> and when I was no longer an athlete when. I graduated school, you know, truthfully, playing football and. lacrosse was a great escape for me to. take out the anger that I had. Um, you.

know, I struggled a little bit with. alcohol in college of just using it as a. coping mechanism for not being able to. sift through my emotional state. >> Yeah. And it would be this the cycle. that I was living in was. um get drunk on a Saturday night, wake. up with regret and shame, walk around. with that regret and shame, not want to. deal with that, bottle it up, come to. Saturday game day, inflict that pain on.

somebody else so that I didn't have to. feel it anymore, and then celebrate that. by more drinking. And that was just the. loop that I was living in. >> Yeah. Eventually, alcohol and the decisions I was making. came to a point where I was like, I. either need to make a change or I need. to like it. It was just a point where I. was like, dude, I need to figure out my. life. And then after. school and I had no other thing to keep. me occupied outside of work and life,

running was a thing that was there for. me. And I just noticed early on that the. more I would run, the more I would come. back from a run and I would feel that. heaviness in my chest feel almost like. gone. Like the weight was off my. shoulders. I wasn't carrying around that. anger. And so early on for me, running. was this tool for me to kind of work. through a lot of the emotional stuff. that I was going through because it was. there was this.

this practical. imagery that was going on is like the. more I ran and the more I moved forward. while I was thinking about the issues. and the problems in my life, >> it was like I was moving forward. >> mentally through them and also. physically through them because I was. thinking about them as I was moving on. my run. >> And so it it it allowed me to kind of. work through things and leave behind. stuff that I wasn't as proud of and move.

forward through things that I wanted to. become, ideas and conversations and just. the life I wanted to live coming out of. college. >> Yeah. When you get to the end of a run, the thoughts and feelings that you have. are good. Mhm. >> So, it's almost like you like have. you've just sifted through and you're. holding things that are good. Like you. you're excited. You call somebody like. I'll whistle at somebody's cat or. whatever. Like you'll do all kinds of. after a run. You're. rocking. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know. You're left with you.

you've kind of run into the best parts. of you. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. Sorry. Go on. >> No, that's uh. >> So that was it. >> That's it. Like that's that was the. start of it. It was just like. >> So that's how it started. >> Yeah. And then and then, you know, I. signed up for a marathon and I think the. competitor in me uh was like, "All. right, I did a marathon. Can I do 30. miles? Can I do 50 miles?" And uh. started doing some charity runs to raise. money and awareness for a nonprofit uh.

for Love Like Lori Legacy. >> Yeah, I saw it was one of your friends. mothers had passed away. >> Yeah, she passed away from pancreatic. cancer in 2020. >> What's her name? >> Lori. Lori. >> Lori Weber. >> Lori Weber. >> Yeah. >> What was the guy's name? >> Blake. Blake Weber. >> Yeah. And that man that I think that was. a real turning point for me and how I. related to running and how I could. basically. have a relationship with this sport that. was outside of outcomes and rewards. because that's all I focused on in. college. Like.

>> if we the goal is to win a national. championship. If we didn't win a. national championship, I was not worthy. We never won a national championship. So, does that mean like I'm going the. rest of my life thinking that I'm not. worthy of anything because I didn't get. an outcome? And through these Love Like. Lori runs, it was beautiful to be able. to. I don't know what it's like to lose my. mom. I'll never know what that feels. like, at least up until now, right? And. at least not in the way that Blake lost.

his mom. And there's a lot of pain and a. lot of hurt and a lot of working through. emotional. stuff where through these runs we would. get to walk and run side by side and I. would experience this physical pain that. would force me to go internal and kind. of deal with it that way and at the same. time walk alongside a brother who was. also going through a different type of. pain. And it was almost a a point where.

we could now connect on how to talk and. move through this pain together even. though they're different things. >> because pain pain is pain right if. you're hurt. that's all you're experiencing that's. all like but we are connected by pain in. a way where we can start to like if I'm. hurting I'm better able to understand if. you're hurting if I've never experienced. pain or hurt I don't I don't know how to. relate to you but when we can experience. it together and be open and vulnerable.

about what we're going through and what. we're struggling with. >> It was a phenomenal opportunity to see. pain as not something to avoid, but to. really like, all right, let's pull up. our sleeves and like let's get into. this. Yeah, let's let's figure out what. this means. >> Amen, dude. >> Yeah, man. Going on like I'll go on a. walk with a friend or something like. that and it's like that's when we get. the most like connect, you know? It's. like when you're do just something in. action and they say our body like holds. so much of our pain. So, of course, if.

you're taking some action that is. starting to call that will like in turn. like make your body have to process some. pain, then it makes sense that um it. could also process some of the pain. that's actual emotional pain that's. being held in. >> Yeah. >> You know, I never really I don't know if. there's science behind that, but I'm. sure that there is. Um but anyway, also. I don't know exactly what I'm talking. about, but I never have either. Um, I've. heard you talk about using journaling as.

like a um I don't want to say modality. I don't know what that word means, but I. think I do. But as like a. >> I guess almost as like a. >> written like a confidant on your. journey. Like I've just heard you talk a. lot about journaling and how you use it. and how you've used it on your journey. of of like kind of self-discovery. Sure. Can you kind of take me through some of. that like what what that experience has. been like? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so when I was. going through I talked about that moment. in college where I had to re-evaluate.

and actually take a look at maybe it's. not everyone else, maybe it's not every. situation, it's me and my actions. Um, I. was nudged by our athletic trainer to go. see a sports psychiatrist that would. come to campus on Thursdays. And her. practice for me was to get a journal and. start writing in it. And what I noticed. that I've been able to go back and read. and see the process of my thoughts over. a a period of time is how hard I was on.

myself. >> How the voice for me back in the day was. like, "You idiot. You effing failure. How could you you said you weren't going. to do this thing and you did it again.". And like I would I was so adamant about. like okay I'm not g you know college kid. crazy the the biggest sacrifice I made. in college was uh my junior year for New. Year's Eve I said I wasn't going to. drink hard alcohol but I was going to. drink beer man like cuz yeah like I'll.

make a sacrifice but not one that's. enough where it's truly a sacrifice. >> Got it. And you know, maybe uh maybe. three months of like doing a good job on. that, I'd have some hard alcohol and I. would just beat myself up over it. Like, I can't believe you did this again. Blah. blah blah. And I guess the more I wrote, the more I was able to understand what. voice was playing in my head. >> and recognize that, dude, maybe this.

isn't even my like, why would I talk to. myself this way? I wouldn't talk to the. you this way. I wouldn't talk to a. friend this way. And so to see it all. laid out. And then to understand one, I'm not going to be perfect. Perfection. is not something I can achieve. So I. have to stop trying to chase that. It's. not possible. And if I'm ever going to. grow as a person, I have to release. myself of this pressure of the need to. be perfect or even the thought that I.

can be not possible. >> Yeah, dude. And when I hold myself to. that, I'm holding other people to that. Yeah. >> And it keeps me away from people. It. keeps me away from like it keeps me away. from so many things, you know, cuz. you're always in this place of like. there's some of like uh this isn't. enough or something could be need. something. I know something needs to be. different. >> Yeah. And. >> well, and I think about my the. relationship with my life, the mo the. times we've grown the most is when we've. worked through conflict, the.

imperfections. >> And it's like the imperfections are. beautiful. They allow us to see. ourselves in a new way. And when we can. allow somebody into that experience, we. can help each other find the best parts. of who we are through our imperfections. And so journaling has been a really. phenomenal practice for me to one allow. the thoughts whether they're positive or. negative to get down on something so. they're not stuck in my head rattling. around controlling like I want to be.

present as much as I possibly can. Yeah. >> And if I got all these thoughts in my. head even if they're like really cool. ideas. they'll they're stuck in there and I. want to get them out so I can just leave. them there and I can come back to them. at a later time. So journaling has just. helped me navigate a lot of the. emotional stuff that's going on and also. put together plans of of who I want to. become. Like okay, if I know this isn't. the voice I want, what type of voice do. I want to have internally? >> Who do I want to let into my life that.

uh is is going to hold me accountable. but also uh help encourage me and build. me up? >> And how can I be that way for other. people? Like who have I been neglecting? all these like just life stuff. There's, you know, just. >> those are good questions, man. Yeah, dude. I I was like I'm working. with my sponsor right now and I have to. write like a fears list like things that. I'm afraid of, dude. And it's crazy, dude. Like the things that I'm really. afraid of, you know?

>> Um, >> you don't have to talk about them. specifically, but I would never ask you. to do that. But do you are you is there. a fear that you have of actually. pointing to the the the deep fears that. you have? >> Like is there uh. >> like I can get that way myself. That's. why I asked is like almost afraid to. know the thing you're most afraid of. because then it's there. >> Oh wow. >> Does that make sense? >> Like would I even be brave enough to.

write the thing I'm most afraid of? Even. if it's just for you, >> right? Cuz then it's still it's. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Then you can't avoid it anymore. That's. where I get too. >> Dang. >> What are your thoughts on that? >> That's freaking wild. Like if there's a. tiger behind these like dangerous. kittens I've written down, dude. Like if. there's a mama cat in the back, bro. Bro, if there is, I'm not going to make. it, bro. I wrote down like a lot of mine. are like um I'm trying to think. Some of.

them are like kind of topical type. things like I'm afraid I'm ugly. I'm. afraid I don't like like um I'll never. uh have like the physique that I want or. I'm afraid um you know uh I'm afraid I'm. not going to be able to like. uh figure out my own stuff to be able to. be like successful in a marriage, you. know. Um, and some of them aren't as. strong as they used to be, but some of. them like I mean I probably have like 20.

more. I think I wrote down like maybe 25. things that I'm really afraid of. Let me. think of what's a real real one. Uh, you know what I've always been afraid. of, man? I've always been afraid of that. I'm wasting everybody's time. Mhm. >> And I don't even know where that comes. from, but it makes everything else tough. because it makes everything else feel. like it has to happen fast. I've always been afraid of that. And I. don't even know if it's a I I write it.

as a fear and maybe it shouldn't have. been written down as a fear, but it was. just like a thing. But it's like. something that like. yeah, when I put it together, I'm always. afraid that I've been wasting somebody's. time. My whole life I felt like there's. this to-do like I got given a to-do list. >> at like six days old and there's like. 200 million things on it. >> and I'm you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Like it's an invisible like. >> like oh you're late. >> like my whole life that's been like. >> somebody like this in the distance.

>> and it's like what? >> But you know I I don't know. So that's. probably a big like Yeah. Or maybe I'm. afraid I'm wasting their attention. Maybe that's part of it, too. >> Yeah. Like if you're going to give me. your attention, I don't want to waste. it. >> So that puts like a lot of like I think. probably especially w with with dating. when I was you when I was like when I. was in high school, college, like that. put a ton of like in my 20s, it put a. ton of energy on that cuz it was like I.

don't want to wait, you know? So then. you got to figure everything out pretty. quick and that doesn't allow for like. anything to really, you know, kind of. grow. It makes things hectic. I don't. know. I'm just think some of this I'm. just thinking out loud. You know, >> one thing that I've noticed through this. conversation that I I really appreciate. about you is. you're unafraid whether you're doing it. on purpose or not of like speaking out. loud and working through these thoughts. in real time. I. there's no expectation that you need to. have the perfect answer or like man.

you're working through the saw and I've. noticed a few times you said like I. don't know anything. You know a lot and. the way that you think through life that. in of itself is extremely valuable. So I. just want to encourage you in that. >> Thanks. >> Like that that is super it's helpful for. me to recognize that I don't need to. have all the answers. >> Yeah. I think I get I would get afraid. to speak cuz I didn't know, you know, I. think at times or you have to like I.

don't know like sometimes Yeah. You feel. like you're like. >> Well, thanks for saying that, dude. >> Yeah, I used to I feel like I was better. at doing that. I used to feel I think um. even with podcasting I think it started. to get like you know you have a pressure. to want to do good or to be be at a. certain level and so I think sometimes I. got you know I don't know. Yeah, maybe. sometimes at times I was like, "Oh, well, I need to be able to know more. then, you know.". >> Um, >> who what do we know about anything. though? >> And it's our first time, dude. How.

often, bro? My uh my my friend Megan, she's a therapist up in or in in. Portland, and she's always like, "It's. our first time." It's like, "This is our. first time being alive like that we know. of." You know what I'm saying? like it's. like and we're like we all are under so. much expectation. Um but our society puts that on us and. then we you know some of us do but yeah. it's like. yeah I used to do a better um at times. I've done a I've done I feel like I've.

been a little more patient with my own. thought process and I used to enjoy. that. >> Yeah. >> And so thanks for the reminder to even. like Yeah. It's a good thing I I I want. to get back to that a little bit more. like being like hey I'm okay I'm just. figuring this out. Yeah, >> you know, that's pretty cool. >> It is pretty cool. >> Um, what I want to talk to you about. quitting. >> Okay, >> you had like I'm paraphrasing here, but. I've told this to like 10 people in the. past week. I'm like, he says that when.

he's thinking about quitting, he'll. think of himself like. >> two days later or something in in like a. comfortable space with as much food and. as much like love and cons and attent. whatever he needs will all be there. >> and and he asks that person, should I quit or take what what what do. you say? >> Yeah. I I I just forecast that. comfortable version of myself that's out. of the painful experience and I ask that. version of myself, would he be proud of.

the effort that I put in if I stepped. off the course right now? >> I think more often, at least every time. I've asked that question, I can't. honestly look at that person. >> Yeah. >> And say, "You did everything you could. out here. And it and it's my way of. removing myself from the pain because. the pain and the discomfort. is is a narrative. It's this like thing.

that's trying like we crave comfort. We. crave to get out of discomfort. It's. hard for us to do that. >> Yeah. >> And even when we're in the midst of it, it's like that's when it's most. difficult. So I try and p pull myself. out of it. And. >> so you'll be running and you'll have. this you will you actively take a. process of thinking. >> bro I will lay down on the course. >> and I will put my head in my arm and I. will visualize myself that like whether.

it's a hotel whether it's you know a. friend's house I will visual visualize. myself there. >> be a spa. >> and yeah it could be a spa. and uh I'll just I'll just ask that. version like hey are we doing everything. we can out here and the answer is always. no. You have more in you. Like that. version would say, "Dude, get up and. keep moving.". That version is also just chilling at. the house. Dude, I respect that version.

and I know what you're saying, but in a. physical way, that version is like But. no, I hear what you're saying, though. Like, yeah, with that version like is. that version going to just to to have a. but the biggest thing is just having. that communication. >> Yeah. >> Like there's in two days there's another. me. >> Yes. >> That's in a different space. And how. does he view what's going on here? >> Because it's like it's a different. version, but it's the same version. >> Yeah. >> That version still has to live with the.

decision that this version makes. >> Yeah. >> And dude, that's life. >> That's life. >> That's life. It's like whenever we're. confronted with a difficult decision, if you can pull yourself out, whatever. you decide to do, the future you has to. deal with those decisions, as long as. you can be proud of it, no matter what. the outcome is, you're good. Um, have you developed a because I'm sure. you probably face a lot of moments that. you want to quit, >> right? Have you developed like a.

relationship with the part of you that. wants to quit? >> Like, you know what I'm saying? Does. that voice come along so much? Cuz like. say I'll be lifting weights and like. even this morning I I I I got up real. early and I got my got my stuff done and. um I noticed like okay there's this. early voice in me. I want to quit. >> Stop. And I'm like sometimes now I can. just breeze right through that voice. I. know that's just That's a. hitchhiker. That guy doesn't even That. voice doesn't even have a home. That. thing is just some lame ass quitter.

voice out here yet with a thumb up. Right. That voice isn't That voice. just like it's eating chips first of. all. Um, so I know, but then I'll start. to notice I I'll just start to notice. some of the uh some of the secondary. ones. And so I don't like but I'm at. least now I can notice that first one. It's just like it's not it's total like. placebo. >> But what are what are the ones that you. that you notice because you've gone to. some depths that are pretty intense to. keep going.

>> Yeah. So very similar to you like that. those first 24 hours that voice and that. person that wants me to quit is like. that comfort quit where it's like eh I. haven't really invested enough and you. know let's just like let's just step. off. But it's easier in a way to get. over that because you sort of you can. call out the BS. You see it like like. you said it's a hitchhiker. It's not. doesn't have a home. The deeper you go. in, the more I feel it is a a direct.

confrontation with. who I am at my core. And so the deeper. you go, the more it's hard it's the the. more difficult I feel like it is to sift. through, am I actually making an excuse. in this moment or is this something I. seriously need to consider because. um I'm going real deep and dark in this. moment. Um, I don't see it necessarily as like like. a psycho where I'm seeing like two.

versions of myself in my mind, but more. can I take one step? Like can I just sit. in this painful experience and. know through experience that there is. light on the other side of this darkness. and have faith. have faith that I will. get there as long as I continue to move. forward. And so. it's more of just combating that. narrative and all the other narratives.

that go on and say, I'm looking at my. feet right now. >> Mhm. >> If my feet are moving forward, that is. evidence that the story in my mind is. not the full truth. Can I just keep looking at my feet move. forward? >> And will you do that sometimes out. there? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You'll just sit there and watch them. move forward. >> I'll just watch them move forward. Even. if the inside of you in your head is. like, "I can't do it." Your feet are. saying, "We can do it.". >> Wow. Because usually it feels like it's. the other way around when you quit. >> In what way? >> Like, isn't it like sometimes it'll be.

my brain? Oh, no. Maybe not then. >> Well, your body like breaking down and. and. >> but that's a real quit. That's like you. can't do it. >> Yeah. >> Um, dude, that's crazy, bro. So you just. keep proving to yourself with one next. step that you can until your brain. follows suit again. >> Yeah. And and and it'll come back around. like the narrative will be like, "Oh, he's proved it over the last 20 hours. We can stop feeding him this BS." It. doesn't mean that you've completely.

overcome it. It might come back around, but it is it's that right there. It's. like, okay, uh I and like every step it. it's boom boom boom boom boom boom. So, it's like constant evidence. It's. constant evidence. It's not until I make. this loop, I'll be able to prove to. myself that I can go. It's how can I. break it down so that I'm giving myself. evidence so fast that the narrative. doesn't have an opportunity to like.

build on itself. >> Bro, that's wild. Yeah. Because. sometimes that thing is so strong, you. need that much evidence. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And they say that in like recovery. programs all the time. They say like you. can't um think your way in the right. action, but you can act your way in the. right thinking. Yes. >> And it just makes me think of that. >> Can I just take one more step in this. direction? Huh. Yeah, I can. >> And most of the time that's the answer. is yeah, I can. >> Um, what are you not good at, Mark? Because if we keep sitting up here just.

massaging each other's egos, it's not. going to be cool. So, what are you not. good at? >> I think that or. >> where do you have where do you struggle? Where are some some places that you. struggle? >> I think I struggle with understanding. that it's not all about me. >> Um. >> the ego is so scary. >> It is very scary. And. >> it's like a shadow that gets longer. You. don't even notice it. >> Mhm. It's like the more light that gets shone. on you, this shadow kind of gets longer. and you don't even really notice it. And. you turn around and there's this.

>> and people are like, "You're an. asshole." You're like, "Okay, well, let. me figure it out." But no, but no, the. ego is a scary thing because you don't. really know how it grows or what causes. it to grow sometimes, you know, >> and the I can try and convince myself. that I'm. doing a good job of maintaining it, but. that can also feed my ego, >> right? Because if look, I'm doing a good. job of maintaining it. Who's doing that? I am. >> I think that's what's kind of happened. to me over like.

>> Yeah, dude. It's like I don't know. It's. interesting. >> But that's all the journey, too. It's. like Yeah. I don't attach myself to a. ton of experiences. I kind of feel like. it's just everything's just like an. experiment sort of that I'm in. >> Yeah. But like um a claim is an. interesting thing, you know, being. acclaimed for something. Having a claim. for something. >> like being applauded or Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Cuz it's scary. Yeah. >> You know, because your ego will sit. there and just listen to that all day. >> Yeah. >> And it's hard to like even if you try.

like I can tell myself the applause. don't matter. But. >> it's almost like my ego or the DNA still. picks it up. Picks up that frequency. It's like, I don't care what you say, we're going to still try and build you. up a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Like a little gremlin in the dark. >> It is, dude. >> Yeah. >> Um, how much have what's your. relationship been like with your own uh. ability to create discipline for. yourself?

>> I find myself struggling with that. So. I I struggle with the word discipline is. so weird because I just see it as uh. discipline is doing the basic things. consistently. and sometimes that's hard for me to do. So I try and implement. strategies where I can outsource that. discipline. So, in order to be a good. runner, I'm I'm lifting weights. And I.

got my buddy Austin Yokum, who is a guy. I played football with, and he's got his. own gym in Minneapolis, and he's one of. my great buddies. And he's the expert in. the gym. If I tried to be the expert in. the gym and go to like a Planet Fitness. or someplace and try and do that on my. own, I wouldn't have the discipline to. do it because motivation isn't there. And motivation is is like a feeling. where you you can't rely on that. >> So for me. >> So motivation is not something you can.

rely on. You don't think. >> at all. I I I don't rely on motivation. at all because it's it's how often are. you motivated like. >> Yeah. >> You never I don't know. Like the more. you do something, the less motivation. plays a factor. Um. >> and dude, sometimes I'll get motivated. I'll be like, "Oh, dude, I'm motivated. I'm fine.". >> Yeah. >> Crazy. >> You're like, "I'm good today.". >> I feel it, dude. Bro, I'm motivated. I. don't even need to go do anything. I'm. already doing good and then I don't do. anything.

>> I love that. I love that you said that. >> That's crazy. I never thought about that. bro. >> So, I I show up in the morning to Yokums. to lift and all I have to do is show up. >> And what's his gym called? >> Yokum Strength. >> Yokum Strength. Yokum sounds like he's. >> That's his last name, too. He's this. huge dude with long hair. Oh yeah. Land a 10,000 next. >> Yes. >> Land of 10,000 traps. Yeah, bro. Dude,

bro, a mouse won't go near his back, >> bro. >> Yo, come. That's him. >> Oh, dang, bro. You could probably sell. his semen on the market. And that's. illegal, too, people. But, um, anyway, >> so I go to him. >> So, you outsource. So, you trust him? >> I trust him. I don't have to think about. my weightlifting. All I have to do is. show up. >> And then. >> when I'm there, I know that I'm in a. space where if I give my best effort, I'm going to get the results because I.

trust him to do that. >> Got it. >> For running, I don't have a coach. And I. am really bad at. saying, "All right, I'm going to set. this schedule for this week and I'm. going to do 70 miles and I'm going to do. 10 this day and seven this day." Yeah, that's Austin right there. >> Oh, what's up, Austin? And so what I do. is I outsource that. There's this. challenge called the calendar club. challenge. >> and it's where you run the number of. miles equal to the day of the month. So. on the first you run one mile, then two. miles, then three, all the way up to 30.

or 31 miles at the end of the month. >> And you have to run every day. >> You have to run every day. And for me, it's great because I know every mile I'm. running for the entire month. I don't. have to think about it. And it's a good. challenge because toward the end of the. month, you're starting to run a lot of. miles that then help prepare me for hour. 60 of a backyard ultra when my legs are. tired, my brain's tired, I'm missing. sleep a little bit more, I'm fatigued, I'm underfueled because I'm burning so. many calories and trying to maintain all.

of that. And um so calendar club is like. now that's my discipline because I don't. have to think about it. I've outsourced. the thought process or you know if I. don't feel like running today, well I. got 20 miles to run today. I got to go. do that. I don't have a choice in this. >> Got it. So you just made the commitment. and you're in. And then you don't worry. about all the extracurriculars of it. >> No, >> that's a lot. Yeah. Cuz that's too much.

sometimes. This. >> I don't want to think. >> Yeah. >> I do enough for that. >> Thinking does not help us. >> No, it doesn't. >> I started to notice this a little bit. Sometimes I'm just like my brain's. running but I'm not thinking. >> And when I start to notice that I'm like. that's not good. That's not the best. thing because that's just my brain. It's. like it's just bullshitting or whatever. It's just like smoking or whatever. I. don't know what my brain is doing right. now but it's just like it's like. throwing old thoughts at me or don't you. feel bad about this or remember this. dude or whatever. But it's not like.

usually fun stuff. So it's usually just. kind of like try it's like a your junk. folder of an email account. >> Yeah. It's like the guy with the wiener. and he's got the controller in his hand, dude. >> It's like, dude, give me back that. controller, >> bro. This is all just park wiener. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Get this guy out of here, dude. >> This guy out of my head. What was he. doing? >> And he had a the wiener seemed crazy. I. only looked at it once, >> but it's. >> You didn't get a second look. >> I don't remember. >> I would have given a second. >> I mean, I could draw it for you on a.

napkin if I had to, but what I'm saying. is I only looked at it once, dude. And I. was helping my girlfriend. But anyway, uh yeah, dude, it was just a I mean, it. was just like broad daylight in a park. But anyway, what I'm trying to say here. is. >> um but yeah, that's not thinking, right? That's my brain just spinning around. So. then I start to like if my brain starts. to think a little bit like I'm actually. thinking. >> like, oh, what do I think about this or. how can I solve this or what's going on? I'll start I want to try and like I want. to start like saying oh thank you brain.

>> because then it's like oh good I'm gonna. start thinking more cuz I think just. with like phone and just life you get so. caught up like a lot of times I'm not. even thinking I'm just like I don't know. what I'm doing. >> Yeah. >> Like I like it when my brain thinks. because it's doing something cool. It's. like how can we do this or what's going. on or here's somebody's birthday today. or somebody just got you know three. years of recovery or somebody's heading. off to like a psilocybin journey. Just.

little things so I can call and congrat. just little things so my brain's just. not filled with my right. >> Yeah. >> It's like dude if I get a thought in the. morning of somebody else and it's not me. dude it is like oh dude it's like my. heart just got like a Christmas present. Like the other day I woke up and I was. thinking of my sister and it was like. the best and I don't mean that in a. weird way but it was like the best thing. ever. I was like oh so nice to wake up. thinking about somebody else. >> Have you found ways to cultivate that?

>> Yes. For me recently it's been having a. gratitude list and people say gratitude. list all the time but I don't think just. writing things down it doesn't help me. I have to write like like I'll say like. yesterday I was writing I'm thankful for. my friend Curtis, right? >> So then I'll think why am I thankful for. my friend Curtis? Well, I'm thankful for. when we go on walks together and we talk. about stuff. We'll talk about faith. We'll talk about what's really going on. in our lives. Um and so then I'll think.

about that. I'll think about, all right, that's me and Curtis. We're walking. We're talking about this. We'll joke. around, you know, like we'll laugh a. little bit. We'll get serious. We'll. share about things that have meant. something to us. Um, we'll go see his. son play football. I'll think about that. and I'll think, "Oh, I get to sit in the. stands. He's down there on the field. He's coaching his son." Like how much. pride he feels. Um, his wife's in the. stands. She's cheering. They got some. ridiculous lady that keeps blowing one. of those horns or whatever. But I'll.

attach a lot of thoughts to it. And. those thoughts make me feel something. So now. >> I'm have a gratitude list, but I'm. feeling something about it. Like this. morning I wrote also, oh, I'm thankful. for the doors in my house. >> And so I thought about, well, how do I. feel when I open certain doors? How do I. feel when I walk through them? Right? So. just trying to attach like actual. moments to just the writing. >> Uh, and that's just been helping me. somehow. I think it's just I'm just. cultivating a little bit more of that.

I'm not saying I'm perfect or anything. about it or or anything I'm. barely, you know what I'm saying? We do. We we out here. But um. >> I mean I. >> but that's a cool thing that I started. to do. And then here's the crazy part. I. start kind of liking it. >> Now I'm like, dude, I woke up and I was. like, what is something I can be. thankful for? >> And I didn't think that two months ago. >> You know, I've always had a decent. practice of it, but this is something. else. Um.

>> yeah, here's he just has the the Thanks. for pulling this up, Trevan. Uh uh. ultimately gratitude is more complex. than merely expressing courtesy or. focusing on positive thinking. When you. regularly focus or meditate on what you. are thankful for, it causes effects that. promote well-being including psychology. and physical health. Um gratitude. affects the amygdala which regulates the. SNS, not sure what that means, and our. anxiety responses. Regularly journing. about gratitude or discussing it as part. of a group have long been parts of. successful life coaching approaches. Um,

it reduces depression. >> That's something I do think maybe I'm. getting. I hate talking about stuff, bro. If I'm new to it because I'm afraid. it's going to go away. >> Well, okay. What I I witnessed in you. when you were talking about it, it's. like your eyes were closed and it was. almost like you were back in that. experience walking with your friend. >> Yeah. >> And you were back in that moment where. you felt all that gratitude. So it was. almost like I it was it was crazy. watching this cuz it was like you were. pulling out that experience and you were.

feeling it right now. >> Yeah. >> And it's like oh wait the more we feel. the things we're most grateful for it's. like man that's going to carry with us. >> Yeah dude that's the thing like I don't. know I'm just started the practice of. it. I've probably been doing it about. two months now maybe six weeks but it's. just feeling good and I have started to. like it a little bit more. And the. craziest thing is I used to be able only. think of a few things I'm grateful for. and now it's like I'm be able to think. of more. >> So I don't know. It's been interesting.

I'm sure in two days I'll just be vaping. and laying there touching myself for no. reason. But for now I feel like maybe. something new could be going on. Um, I I. heard you you had a post just this the. other day that I thought was really cool. when you were you were talk this was on. uh on Instagram I think and you were. just talking about how things in your. life wouldn't be possible without Jesus. Christ, without your faith. >> Yeah. >> How has faith like played a role in how. did faith like start in your life? >> Yeah. Um I mean I grew up going to.

Catholic, you know, I was Catholic grade. school, uh alter boy, all that stuff. Stoked about funerals. So that's why. you're fast if you're an ultra boy. >> Sorry. >> That might be a little Sorry, Pat. >> Hey. Hey, it's okay. >> Sorry, Bishop. >> Yeah, you got a Bishop coming on next. week. You're going to have to explain. yourself. >> And he's from Minnesota. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> From Minnesota, so I'm excited. >> Yeah. You're going to have to explain. yourself to him. U That's true. >> So went through that, went through. Jesuit high school, went through, you.

know, it was a Catholic university, but. never felt like it was a choice that I. was making. And in high school, I. struggled for a number of different. reasons, but I struggled making strong, deeprooted connections with people. So I. always felt like an outsider. >> And so I always felt like. >> in order for me to be a part of this. group, I have to predict how I think. they want me to live and be like. and.

the amount of I I don't I don't know if. I'd call it anxiety, but like I it was. this scared mindset of like trying to. predict how they wanted me to act and. always getting it wrong and then trying. to figure like I was always living up in. my head, thinking I knew what was going. up on you in your mind and trying to. live that way. >> Oh yeah, >> bro. >> Yeah, you're like an EMT, dude. Yeah, when you're living like that, you were. literally like a EMT. You're just like. sitting there wait like you're like a.

response team. >> Yes. >> It's like how do I respond right now? That shit's hectic. Some of that could. just be being young, but I think also. that it's uh that it's interesting that. you were noticing that. Okay. Go on. >> And so leaving high school, I had sort. of made this quiet promise with myself. that I didn't want to feel that way. again. And so I chased acceptance. I was. like, I'm going to do whatever it I can. to get people to like me and not live. this way anymore. And a lot of the. things were like be successful in. sports. Um, drink and have a good time.

And, you know, I would let my friends. shoot me with a blow dart being drunk or. shoot me with a BB gun because that was. fun. I was I was I was the center of. attention. >> Yeah. >> You know, shoot me. >> Yeah, dude. Hatchet me. >> Exactly. Cut off my leg. >> Who cares, bro? >> Let's go. And uh and that worked for a. while, you know, that that works. And. eventually that led me into a place.

where I was like, you know, getting in. trouble with alcohol, having regrets, having shame, um talking about, you. know, the things that I talked about. earlier of just like bottling up. emotions and having that come out in. negative ways. >> That shame's crazy, bro. >> Oh, it's wild. It'll do some dark things. to you. >> It's crazy. I think most of our country, I don't know. I think a lot of us are. living in shame, especially uh men. because of probably pornography and. stuff like that. Yeah. And how it's just. been able to be so accessible, you know, like how it was just like I don't know.

Imagine how much shame is rocking around. out there. >> and how shame can be used to control. you. >> Yeah. This is wild. uh in my spam in my email. This is like a couple months ago, someone was trying to. uh what do you call it? Like hold me. hostage for like Bitcoin. They're like, "You got to pay us this amount because. we saw you through your camera watching.

porn." And I gave up watching porn when. I started following Christ a little over. two and a half years ago. And I'm. grateful for that. And I thank God for. that because maybe in the darkness of me. doing that consistently. and feeling that shame, I would have. allowed that shame to control me. And. but I'm set free from that now. >> And I know that's a lie because that's. not something that I do anymore. And. >> it's just like how many people are.

falling to that and how you wouldn't I. hope I don't get it. Um but bring that. up if that's a scam right now. Let's. take a peek at it. I'm 29 days off of. pornography right now. >> Good. Good. >> So, I'm feeling it's the most I've done. in a long time. I can't even believe it. >> It's freeing, >> but I'm going to keep believing it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know? >> Yeah. >> Instead of just being like, I can't even. I'm just going to keep believing it. >> Um. >> uh reports of scammers claiming they.

recorded people watching pornography via. their webcam or widespread form of. extortion known as sextortion. The threat. Victims receive an email or. letter claiming a hacker took over their. computer, activated their webcam, and. recorded a split screen video of them. viewing explicit websites. >> Yep. >> The scare tactics. Scammers often. include an old password stolen from a. past corporate or website data breach. Wow. In the email subject line or body. to trick the recipient into believing.

their device is fully compromised. Some. advanced variants even include a Google. Street View image of the victim's house. to induce panic. >> That's crazy. >> The demand. The sender threatens to send. the fabricated video to the victim's. family, friends, or co-workers unless a. ransom, usually paid in Bitcoin, or. another cryptocurrency, is sent with a. strict deadline. Oh my god. >> Wow. >> I didn't know this was happening, dude. >> Yeah, >> it is a bluff. Cyber security expert.

cyber security experts and law. enforcement agencies note that their. claims are almost always entirely false. The scammers do not have a video of you, do not have access to your webcam, and. generally do not possess your content. list. Data is bought and spoofed. The. password used as proof was bought. cheaply off the dark web from old, unrelated leaks. And the email address. is often spoofed to look like it came. from your own account. That's crazy. I didn't know all that was going on. Did. you? >> I I did just from my experience.

>> Right. Wow. Dude, I'm glad we talked about that. because I can't even imagine. every dude I know would send at least. $30. >> Yeah. >> Or $60, $80. or something like that. Or Yeah. At. least $140 probably. I mean, every dude. I know would continually. >> or not every you a lot of dudes have. fallen fallen prey to it. And to think. of your webcam. Oh man. >> Well, it's it's uh. >> Dang.

>> At least for me at that time, it was it. was aimed at fulfilling a need that I. thought that I could fulfill with. something worldly and and yes, pleasure. in that regard. Yes, acceptance from. people in high school and in and trying. to change that in college and chasing. achievement and getting to a point where. none of these things fulfilled me. And I. think I I feel really. encouraged and compelled to like, man,

there's a lot of things that we think. that are going to give us what only God. can give us. >> Yeah. And uh and I think it's. interesting that. you know porn is something that is. kind of commonplace and yet it is being. used against us and I think that is. something that is important because. there I did feel shame around it and I.

think the answer wasn't to pretend to. not feel shame around it. It was to. reconcile why I feel shame around it and. understand that there's a better way to. honor. life and honor my thoughts and bring. them closer to what God would want them. to be. >> Yeah. And you just have we had my friend on. here who's a poor uh he is a pornography. recovery coach, right? And um he's.

amazing dude. He's the greatest dude. He's been through so much. But just all. the things it hijacks that we don't even. realize. It's like the way then that you. look at your spouse, the way then you. communicate with women in general. Yes. Um just the energy you bring into the. world even, >> you know, like even if I've been jerking. off or whatever, if I'm going out in the. world, my energy is just different. So. it's like I don't know. It's not a. pressure to make anybody feel bad, but. just like Yeah. It's it is a it is like. a it is like it's your own spirit and.

this like. and this greater energy. >> Yeah. >> Of like of a connection with God that. you get dis that I believe you get. disconnected from. >> I I felt like I was a slave to it like. in the in the. >> was habit for me. >> Yeah. And it's like you close the door, you close the shades. It's like. everything about it made me feel like I. needed to hide myself from the world. >> Yeah. And then you I I would take that. with me and like you said like people. that you would see, women that you would.

see, it would change how I viewed them. and it would change how I viewed my. spouse and that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's all damaging and I think the. way we interact with our all that stuff. just has an effect. That's what I'm. saying. That's what I mean. I just mean. like if somebody's like realizing like. man I'm having trouble in my rel I'm. trouble having trouble in even just like. being around my kids or going to do. something fun or having more time for. all of that gets affected. I think are. the little side effects we don't notice. Um, what about like sexual like activity. before a race? Will you not engage? Like.

what is that like? Cuz for boxers, they. say that that's a thing, you know? What's it like for marathon runners? Cuz. if I'm going to run 95 miles, >> maybe it's better if my wife's waiting. for me there at the end than if I just. left out of her room, you know? >> Yeah. I I actually haven't thought about. that too much. >> Really? It's not It's not on your It's. not on your radar. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Um Oh, yeah. I interrupted you about. when you were talking about your your uh. relationship with God. >> Yeah, I wouldn't say interrupt, but we. Yeah, I would say.

through chasing all these different. things that I thought would fulfill me, I would come up empty. And for me, it. was, you know, I was running around. thinking that running was going to be. the thing that would give me fame and. sponsorships and financial freedom and. all of these things that I thought I. wanted. and none of it was happening for. me and I felt empty and. >> you just weren't achieving those things. >> Yeah. Well, it I wasn't they weren't. coming in the way that I wanted them to.

And even in the ways that they were, it. wasn't enough to. >> keep me happy and and joyful. It was. almost like it was doing the opposite. >> And um. >> Wow. So, did you like did it get to a. point you were almost going to quit. running at one point? not necessarily. quit, but have a. uh try and figure out what the point of. me running was. >> Got it. >> You know, I had started doing the. charity runs with my friend and have. this beautiful relationship and then. somewhere along the way, it became this.

avenue of like, well, I want to be a. professional at this and in order to be. a professional, I need followers, money, and sponsors, >> right? >> And those, yes, are. like tangible things that help you. become a a professional. But I was. chasing them for their end, like for. what they could do for me. And uh yeah, I was I was on a run and I was listening. to a podcast uh with Cameron Haynes and. Sally McCrae and they were talking about.

how in the deepest darkest moments. during the races that they are reminded. that they are made by a strong creator. >> and that they are that creator that. strength is in them because they're made. in his li image and his likeness. Wow. >> And that thought I was like, maybe this. is this is something that I need to. think about. I didn't know how to do. that, but it was a thought that was put. on my heart. And not even 5 miles later, I come across a friend. His name is.

Vince. I hadn't seen him in a year. And. he's sitting by the lake reading a. Bible. I'm like, "What's up, Vince?". Like, "How you doing? Uh, what are you. doing out here? What brings you out. here?" is like I have fallen from my. faith and something about today the Holy. Spirit put on my heart that I need to. come here and I need to read scripture. >> And the verse he was reading when I. interrupted him was in the book of John.

and it's it's I'm paraphrasing but it. said the reason you do not know God is. because you are not of God. And to me, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Like I. didn't know what was going to fulfill. me. I was chasing all of these things. and they weren't they weren't doing it. And now I have this thought of like, well, what is what is a relationship. with God look like? And that scripture. was like, well, if you want to find out, go find out. Go do something about it. Go take action. Uh join a men's group.

Go go go to church. go to some place. that you can learn more about. understanding what the kingdom of God is. all about. >> And from that point, I started actually. taking steps forward. It's like if you. want to build a relationship with a. person or a spouse, you don't do so by. staying distant from them. You get to. know them. You talk to them. You learn. about how they love and how they uh are. calling you to live and how they're. calling themselves to lives. And and.

that's what I started with was just. like, "Hey, okay, let me open the Bible. I've never done that before. >> Let me crack it open.". >> Yeah. What does that even mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those Bibles up in. Minnesota, they sound like a like a can. of beer when you open them. Some of. them, you know, there's a lot of beer up. there. >> Whoever belongs to God hears what God. says. The reason you do not hear is that. you do not belong to God. Wow. >> And so I wanted to hear God, man. Yeah, I I because I had tried everything. >> Oh, there you go, dude. That's it. I.

tried everything. >> What else is there? You know, >> like Yeah. Like when do I admit that to. myself, you know? Like I tried. everything. I tried everything. Yeah. >> I tried to do it my way. >> Yeah. >> Or I just tried everything, you know? >> It's crazy to think that God made us. because he loved us. You know, >> that's one of the wildest things. There's It's not wild, but it's like. Yeah. The other day we're at this I go. to a Bible study and they have uh. they were just talking about asking God. what you could do for his kingdom, you.

know, >> and like sometimes if you can really get. in a good space and really ask that. I just I'd never thought about it. before, you know, >> just like really asking God, what can I. do. >> for you? >> Yeah. >> You know, like sometimes you can really. get in a space where you really feel. like a connection. You know, sometimes. you just, you know what I'm saying? You. got to be, you know, there's 30 miles on. the calendar. It's the 30th of the month. and you got to hit the road, you know, and you're drive-thru praying. You were.

like in the, you know, >> Yes. >> You're just getting coffee at the. window. But sometimes you go inside the. McDonald's of the Lord. >> and you really get in there on your. knees and you Yeah. I don't know. But. yeah, it's like, man, God, what can I do. for you? You know? Yeah. That's kind of cool because then. he you could you could get to do. something. >> and it's not for yourself. >> Yeah. Sometimes it's flipping burgers in. the back. >> That is fine, dude. >> You know, sometimes it's in the the play.

the play center. >> Yeah, dude. Sometimes it's just being an. adult that's sitting in the ball pit. vaping, dude. That's if that's where God. has you. But no, I don't know. I think there is. like I don't there can be like some. excitement and like yeah there's. excitement in that space if you if you. can if you can get there with it. I. think there's excitement in that space. of like, yeah, what could God want me to. do? You know, who could he put in my. life that there could be some new way to.

learn or I don't know. It's just easier. when it's like. >> like maybe if something good happens, it's not just with I'm just I'm not the. only one to sit there and obser you can. be like, "Oh, thanks God.". >> You know, it's like, "God, that's cool.". It's like I'm not the only one. It's not. just Oh, then otherwise I'm just sitting. there by myself. Oh, that was cool. That. was neat. >> Yeah. you know, but it's like to have. somebody to share something with. >> Do when when you were thinking about. that in that space, were there clear.

answers that came up for you? >> Um, no, not really. I think it was just like. I felt just grateful that I was thinking. about it, >> you know? >> Yeah. >> I think it's just better than sitting. there with my thoughts and my thoughts. are just my own. >> Yeah. >> You know, I think it just feels like. some reprieve. Um, yeah. So, I think that's kind of. where I'm at with like some of the. relationship with God or like kind of. like what's going on with me with it, I.

guess. I don't know. It's always a. little bit different. Um, but yeah, I don't know if I'd ever even. thought I'd exactly have this. conversation, >> right? >> You know, so I think it's just like. thing little things you start to notice, you know, and I'm in a Bible study, man. uh. you know this this thing that was like. kind of nice that happened. There's this. um musician, his name is Zack John King, and I think he just had a new album that. came out actually, but he had uh there's. this new book. It's called Theo on.

Golden. >> Okay. >> It's by. Alan Levie or Alan Levi. >> Okay. Um, and it's about uh an old man. who goes into this uh sort of who goes. into this coffee shop in this town. called Golden. But anyway, my buddy Zack. John my my my buddy Zach had given me. this book and he'd uh and it was wrapped. up in paper and he said, "Oh, my dad. really loved this book and he thought. that you would like it." So, he gave it. to me as a gift and I just put it in my.

truck and like two weeks later his. father passed away. It was like a sudden. heart attack. Um, and then two weeks after that, I. realized I still had this book in my. truck. I'd never opened it up. And I. opened it up and his dad had written in. it. He was just like, "Uh, I'm so. grateful you and my son are friends and. I'm so grateful that you guys are uh. learning about God together.". >> Wow. >> And it was just like this like uh I. don't know. It was just like. >> it's just like little things, you know?

Um, but it was like a nice moment that. he and I got to have that his father was. like, you know, his father's still alive. here through these words. >> and um. I don't know. I'm kind of not doing the. story justice, but. >> No, you are. >> It was pretty special and he's a special. guy and it kind of just gave us like. this little connection, you know? So, it's just interesting. Um, I don't know. It's all kind of interesting. I get. scared to talk about some of that kind. of stuff because. sometimes Christian people can be like,

you know, they can nail you to the. cross. You know what I'm saying? It's. like, bro, >> he already did that for us. You know. what I'm saying? Bro, put your toolbox. down, Karen. >> So, that's on sometimes it's like uh I. don't know. Some of that stuff I I get. nervous talking about in some ways. I. know I shouldn't. I don't get nervous. talking. I think maybe like in a public. way. >> Yeah. Does that make sense to you? >> It does make sense to me and it brings. up what you said earlier is like I have. a fear of I don't know enough. So I feel.

like the knowledge of it like almost. like I have to have a certain knowledge. of it to be able to talk about it. And. like if that's what you said like you. get nailed to the cross like this is. where I'm at in the in my faith journey. >> Yeah. >> And this is what I know which is not. very much. >> Yeah. But I'm still curious about it. >> Yeah. And some of the stories, dude, are. not even that good. I'm going to go. ahead and say that straight up, bro. I'm.

no Dr. Seuss or whatever or like. freaking Oprah or whatever. But some of. the stories in there, it's like, bro, this is a B-side track, dude. Let's be. realistic. So, I think I'm focusing on like the. hits right now, okay? >> You know, >> but um. >> the hits are good, dude. But that's what. I'm saying. The hits are good. Yeah, the. the hits hit, bro. >> Uh but yeah, not to be ashamed and also. to be transparent. I you know, like.

there's been times where like like faith. has kind of come in my life in some ways. and then it's gone away. Yeah. >> You know, and I don't know what that's. like. I don't know. >> But uh. yeah, like I had this like I don't know. >> I had some uh found some other numbers. on extortion. If you wanted to read. these off, we can plug it in. >> Yeah, dude. I didn't even know. Let's. get back. Okay, great. Thank you so. much. Uh oh, these are key. Sextortion. is one of the fastest growing online. crimes in the world with law enforcement. and safety organizations reporting an. unprecedented surge in cases over recent.

years. While it's difficult to map the. exact global numbers, estimated 98% of. cases go unreported due to their fear. and shame. I could totally see that. M. >> the explosion in reports. The National. Center for Missing and Exploited. Children in the United States received. 26,718. sextortion reports via its cyber tip. line in 2023, a massive jump from 10,700. reports in 2022 and just 139 in 2021.

So, it's growing. Um, uh, NCMEC now averages roughly 812. reports of sextortion per week. Um, teenage impact research from youth. advocacy organization Thornne indicates. that one in five teenagers report. experiencing some form of extortion. online. Other youth studies place the. rate at around 1 in 20. Dude, that's got. to be horrible for kids. >> Yeah, >> teenage boys and young men are most at. risk. Young men aed 14 to 24 have become.

the primary targets of financial. extortion. For example, reports from. cyberclip.ca CA indicate that 83% of. victims are male when the gender is. known. >> Dang, >> bummer. >> And LGBTQ youth, studies show that LGBTQ. plus individuals plus ENZ caner. experience disproportionately higher. rates of both victimization and. subsequent mental health distress. compared to their peers. Probably. because they're saying not only were you.

looking at pornography, but you were. looking at gay pornography. Yeah, dude. >> Oh, >> dark. >> Dark. That's why we got to keep going. >> Yeah. >> One step. >> forward. >> That's it. >> Forward. >> One step at a time. Let's look at some. of this Mark uh D porn. Uh, sorry. >> Let's Sorry, I did not mean that. We'll. take that out. Let's look at some of. this Mark Dattle core. That's what I. meant, dude. Some of the Mark Dattle. core that's out there. >> All right. Let's just add to the lore.

from what a menace this dude must be. when you're out there running. It's the. middle of the night. A lot of these men. have not even seen their wives or. children for three days and this total. menace comes up the course. Let me see. some of it, bro. And this was at the. most recent race. >> This was. >> This was at the Ultra. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It all depends on each other. This. message is for Sam Harvey back at base. camp. I didn't come for 158 souls. I.

came for all 159. And you can count on that. >> Oh my god. You guys heard it. I I heard. it. >> I heard it. >> I heard it. >> My favorite part is listening to the. commentators on that. >> Oh, bro. That's crazy, dude. >> Yeah. Do you have to keep your mentality. that high out there? Like is it an. active thing? Like are there are there. active moments where you're like, "Okay,

what do I think of now to get me to that. finish line?" Like, "Okay, I'm going to. think of um this loops for my family. This loops for uh my mom. This loops for. my," you know, do you think like that? Are there little things you think of. that get you to that next moment? >> Yes and no. I mean, uh, there's one. thing that kept me going out there, at. least deeper into the race, is like part. of what I get to do in running is that's. how I provide for my family and through. the different avenues of what that.

represents. Um the some of the best. things that I get to do is I get to come. home the week after or the weeks after. and it'll be a Wednesday and my wife and. I will get to hang out and not worry. about where we need to be. M. >> and if I can step further into that. darkness, if I can take steps towards. the discomfort and over overcome the. pain of that situation, the reward for. that is a movie on a Wednesday with my.

wife. >> Brother, I will go through more pain to. experience that type of freedom and. peace. >> Yeah. >> And so like that is a big thing that. keeps me going out there is. This is this pain is nothing compared to. the light that is waiting for me. >> Wow. >> And I know that's coming for me, right? >> And if I can stay here and sit in it, >> let me let me pivot the tab right here. >> Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Yeah. Like.

make it harder actually. >> Like bring it on because light and love. will always overcome the darkness. That's in running and that's in life and. that's in our faith. That's in our. family and our friends, our. relationship, everything. light and love. will overcome the darkness and these. races provide me evidence for that and I. get to keep stepping into that. >> and uh yeah my wife is a big big light. in my life. >> Lucy is her name. >> Yeah, which means light. >> Does it really? >> Yeah, it does. >> Nice. Lucy.

>> and you guys have a baby on the way. >> We do have a baby. That is true. Yeah. >> Let's go. >> So, that was another You know, >> and do you know if it's going to be a. boy or a girl yet? >> We we don't know that yet. Brother, we. uh. I don't know why I keep saying brother. like that. >> It's okay, dude. >> But uh. >> I'll put on a Hulk Hogan shirt if you. want. Whatever you got to do to get. through this. >> Um uh we had the first 10e ultrasound. Um and we met with the midwife two days.

ago and I heard the heartbeat for the. first time. >> Wow. And you've never done a 10-week. ultra? >> Uh-uh. Never. Never. Never done a 10e. ultra. >> But the baby has already. >> The baby has. Wow. So, we know where. this kid is headed. >> Mhm. >> To the loop. >> It's another loop. >> Oh, congratulations, man. Was that. pretty amazing? >> Yeah, it was. Um Wow, dude. That's. >> It's hard to put into words cuz I like I. heard the heartbeat and it was like this. is life and I'm listening to it, but I.

can't see it. >> Yeah. >> But it's there. >> It's It was just a weird I don't even. know what to Yeah. It's just it was. beautiful. >> Yeah. Oh yeah, dude. And then you know. what's so interesting about the. heartbeat that I think about sometimes, Mark? It's like my heartbeat. It's my. father and my mother's heartbeat. It's. together, right? >> So it's like this like this beat has. been going. >> Like the radio has been left on, bro. Like it this is like this is like the.

tamber of like I mean who I don't even. know how long my family's even been. alive. >> Yeah. >> But it's like it's the same like this. beat is just I'm just a remix. WA. >> of all the people that have been here. and that created me, dude. And that's. it. Like that's what you make. Like you. make the beat. >> Yeah. >> It's pretty crazy when you think about. it. So sometimes like if you miss your. mother or you miss your father or if. there's somebody like you can like. >> like that's why like that beat is just. right there. It's kind of wild. sometimes. >> Sometimes I'll do that and just like.

kind of like think about a family member. that's gone, you know? It's kind of. cool. >> That is really cool. I never thought. about that. Yeah, >> dude. That's the thing, bro. That's the. remix, bro. That's the Markdown Lucy. remix, bro. That's the new track. >> Another loop, man. Another loop, bro. >> That's perfect. Um, you do public. speaking now. You do um you go out and. talk to people and share uh what your. journey and your faith is it basically. most or what what is it some of that. when you go to these when you go to um.

different schools and events? >> Yeah. So the way I think about running. is in these three buckets under this. same mission of I'm trying to figure out. what I'm truly capable of and I want to. help other people discover that too. The. first bucket is I demonstrate that I do. the Arrowhead 135s. I do the backyard. ultras and I put the words into action. The next step is share that. Share the. tools and the lessons that I used in the. toughest moments out on the race on the. course to help me overcome those. And.

then whether that's through YouTube or. Instagram or going out and publicly. speaking that to young men and women who. you know man I would have loved to hear. these lessons as a high school and. college kid where I was struggling to. find my purpose and my identity and what. was really important and to corporations. who are looking to for ways to kind of. rejuvenate their their culture. Um so. then there's that aspect and the third. is to create opportunities for that to. happen. So, like one thing we do in.

Minnesota, uh, with my buddy Kellen and. his business, it's a sauna cold tub. business, and we'll run three miles in. the middle of the winter when it's minus. 10° out, and we'll run to a cold spot in. the Mississippi River. We'll crack open. the ice with sledgehammers. We'll take a. two-minute cold plunge, and then we'll. run two miles back to the saunos and. embrace north. And what I get to. experience in that moment is somebody. who is afraid of what this experience.

could be and watch that fear build over. three miles. And then they get to a hole. and they they jump in and it's like all. that fear that they had built up in. their mind, they realized the experience. was not as scary as the reality of the. situation. Ah, >> and that's what being in a backyard is. for me. That's what being in a, you. know, the arrowhead is for me. It is. experience that and how can I bring that.

to people. And so the public speaking is. a way for me to like share this lesson. and then show people like you can do. this too. You don't have to do, you. know, 94 hours in a backyard to. experience that. >> That guy got in the one with the two. ladies in it, bro. That's what I'm. talking about, dude. That guy picked me. Dude, I've never seen two ladies in the. Mississippi River either, dude. But this. dude knows what's. >> Hey, that's what happens upstream. >> Hell yeah. >> Come upstream more often. >> I'm upstream,

>> dude. What happens upstream stays. upstream, bro. >> Um, Mark D, thanks so much, man. Is. there anything else that you want to. discuss before you go? >> No, I I just want to thank you. Thank. you for your time and uh like I said. earlier, thank you for the way that you. think about things because I it's truly. encouraging to hear you think and talk. out loud and it encourages me to be able. to do that more and more without fear of. needing to be perfect. >> Oh, thanks dude. Yeah, I'm just trying.

my best, you know? I think most people. are and sometimes Yeah. And even then I. wish I did better at it. You know what? That's a crazy statement. I'm trying my. best. And then the next statement out of. my mouth is, man, I wish I did better at. >> Yeah, that's. >> that's just proof right there what I'm. talking about. Like got to monitor these. voices, man. Um but so grateful I got to. hear yours today, dude. And that's one. that's going to keep ringing in my ears. And uh yeah, just thanks so much for. your journey. Um tell Lucy thank you for. letting her husband leave while she's. pregnant and letting you escape. And uh.

and yeah, dude. Um, we'll be keeping. tabs and uh we want to donate to your. friend's charity. >> Amazing. >> For his mother. What's it's called? Lori. >> love like Lori Legacy. >> Love like Lori Legacy. Yeah. Okay, cool. Thank you. Yeah, you bet. We'll keep in. touch about it and um and we'll donate. to it right here. That's what it is. Love like Lori.com. Uh living the legacy run. And when is. the run? >> So this run, the website's a little bit. outdated, but you can still donate to.

it. But this was a the third charity one. we did which was a 500 mile run from. Springfield, Illinois to St. Paul. >> Okay. >> I'll be in the van, but. >> this happened in 2022. >> Oh, it did. Okay. Yes. Yes. >> Excellent. Got it. Got it. Got it. Um. well, Lori, we miss you and uh grateful. to think about you today and say your. name out loud and um Yep. Mark D, thanks. so much, brother. >> Thank you, Theo. >> Yeah, man. was floating on the breeze and I feel.

I'm falling like these leaves. I must be. corner stone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll. share this piece of mind I found. I can. feel it in my bones, but it's going to take.