Trauma Expert Tim Fletcher | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #495

I have some tour dates to tell you about. I'll be in Vancouver BC on September. 14th St Louis Missouri on April 19th. Halifax Nova Scotia on August 11th get. all your tickets at theo. comom you and if tickets are too. expensive don't get them hold out don't. let these Reapers get at you we'll come. back around. sometime um love you guys and thank you. for the support today's guest is a. speaker a counselor and a researcher in.

the world of complex trauma uh he has. some amazing videos on YouTube uh I. really love how he discusses this world. and and his presentation of it I'm. grateful to spend time with him today. via Windsor Canada he is here with us. today's guest is Mr Tim. [Music]. Fletcher I'll sit and tell you about.

stor. shine on. me and I. will song I. [Applause]. sing Tim Fletcher thanks for joining me. man my pleasure I've seen a lot of your. uh videos on YouTube and um a lot of it. really resonates with me about uh trauma.

uh childhood trauma. um just a lot of things in that vein I. mean there you have so many wonderful. videos out there and I I'm just thankful. you're here today to talk with us about. it um I know we want to talk about. trauma today and that sort of thing but. it's also like a buzz word I feel like. people use a lot and I don't want this. to be um like a thing where we're just. creating victims or you know what I'm. saying kind of yep yep I think Lots in.

the last 10 years this trauma's kind of. come come on the radar now everybody's. talking about everybody's trauma. informed and yet people really don't. understand it a whole lot but a lot of. the response has been no I got somebody. to blame right and it's like no we can. explain now a lot of your behavior but. you got to now take responsibility to. change that yeah that's what yeah and I. don't want to create a lot of victims. today like that's another part and this. isn't a judgment against anybody I'm.

just this is even for myself I've had a. lot of problems I'll get trapped in. self-pity sometimes so I just but like. you're saying this is a great place for. information and um how do we go about. like not creating victims right so to me. what trauma is is pain happens to every. child but a child in a healthy home is. able to get tools and support and they. can resolve and grow through that that. so it's not trauma it's pain that gets. turned into growth but what happens to a.

child that can't resolve it nobody's. supporting them nobody's giving them. tools to handle it it turns into trauma. they're a victim they they're a. legitimate victim a helpless victim who. can't fix the problem um and so they are. legitimate victims the problem is is. that they still feel like a victim as an. adult even though they're not a victim. now they now have tools and support and. that's one of the hardest transitions is. to move from.

I was a legit legitimate victim but now. I got to take responsibility because I. can yeah and some don't want to do that. because they like staying a victim. because then I don't have to be. responsible people feel so sorry for me. I can blame somebody I don't have to. grow up yeah it's fascinating yeah let's. talk about trauma let's talk about. complex trauma so what is it how would. we say what it is so trauma is is so the. event happens on the outside but but I.

can't handle it it's too painful it's. too scary for me so it creates this fear. and stress that I don't have the tools. to handle okay and so as a result of. that since I can't fix it and resolve it. it then wounds me on the inside and. that's the trauma is what takes place on. the inside what makes why we call it. complex trauma so it's really. mathematical terms so on there's simple. math and there's complex math so simple. is one number complex is more than one.

so simple trauma is a one event trauma a. car accident a rape whatever complex is. ongoing danger so a child's in a. situation where they're in ongoing. danger so there's their stress system is. constantly activated like do I fight. flight what do I do here I got to get. out of here I can't handle this I can't. handle this so that when a child lives. in that environment all all the time. where they're constantly activated to. fight flight but if they're too little.

to fight or flight then they eventually. go well I'm shutting her down freeze I. can't handle this so they they go into. this dissociative um let's go into an. internal world to protect ourself and. create a fantasy world because it's safe. there um and so complex trauma is comes. out of. basically abuse or neglect so the two. extreme ends of the spectrum so the. abuse we can easily imagine that's.

physical abuse emotional abuse that's. harsh environment violence. Etc but a lot of complex trauma comes. out of neglect and that's the other end. of the spectrum where all the physical. needs of the child were met but their. emotional needs were met so the abuse. trauma something happens to you neglect. trauma something didn't happened to you. that should have happened to you yeah. and it's hard to find out those the. neglect trauma it's hard to locate some. of it because it's like almost feeling.

around for ghosts is what it feels like. exactly yeah and so that's where we. spend a lot of time so what we've done. with it is that we've broken down kind. of the emotional needs that a child has. so we have a need to be a child needs to. be authentic and to connect with safe. people and really be able to be. vulnerable and open up and to be totally. accepted for who they are have somebody. who totally gets them and hears them and. sees them and values them and nurtures. them those are all emotional needs but.

if a child grows up in a home where I'm. too busy for you or smarten up get over. it toughen up nobody's getting them. nobody's hearing them or why can't you. be like your brother Etc all of that is. emotional trauma that's hurting the. child emotionally so the child's not. feeling safe to be them so the child. then has to adapt in order to try to. protect itself so I got to be tougher I. can't be so sensitive I got to wear this.

mask of being outgo Etc. um but that's also how I'm going to try. to get my needs met so maybe if I'm. different then Dad will give me more. attention then Mom won't be so angry at. me all the time so they're adopting. adapting trying to get their needs met. trying to keep safe and they don't even. know who they are a lot of times and. that's what happens they don't even. really develop they don't have a clue. who they are after a while cuz they're. so busy trying to be something they're. not to get acceptance and love.

because they know if they're authentic. so in a healthy situation of you're. authentic you connect and you're loved. in complex trauma if you're authentic. you get. rejected and so then you'll yeah then. you pull that authenticity back in. especially if you're really young you. don't even. know you're still na learning so much. about yourself or evolving who even. knows what happens to when you uh. redirect that River supposed to be. normal it just becomes a is just damn.

floods everything and exactly it can get. some real sewage going on so what. happens when the child is neglected is. the child basically thinks everything. must be their fault so the reason Dad's. too busy must be because I'm not good. enough reason mom's angry is I'm not. good enough so they they begin to. develop this core self-identity that. something's wrong with me I'm not good. enough so I have to change and be. somebody else in order to get acceptance. and love why does a child develop why. does a child.

cuz the the world revolves around them. when they're a child they only know. themselves and so they have no one else. to blame if something is wrong in the. world so so we refer to it so the child. brain is basically what's developed is. the lyic brain which is the emotional. Center so the cortex hasn't developed. yet and so it's called egocentric. thinking so everything they see through. their eyes that affects them they caused. it everything is related to them somehow. so if Dad's too busy or Mom and Dad get. a divorce I must have done something.

wrong it must be my fault um if I get. sexually abused I must have brought it. on so everything is an egocentric way of. thinking I see because they're really. the only player on the court kind of. exactly exactly and so then what happens. though with that is they make. adjustments hoping to get love and. acceptance and get their needs met and. stay safe but something way back here. now goes your. [Music]. phony so they get the impostor syndrome. which says you're getting love and.

acceptance but if they knew the real you. they wouldn't be giving you that love. and. acceptance cuz you're an impostor so the. solution hasn't fixed the problem it's. still unresolved so that's where complex. trauma. then it's still not fixed so I'm still. in fight or flight um so I got to come. up with a new persona I got to come up. with a new mechanism exactly to try and. get my needs met but I never can find a. solution that totally.

satisfies so it's more than one trauma. that happens to a child yes right and. they don't have somebody there to help. them process it can can children have. different levels of trauma or no trauma. if they have somebody there to help them. process it right so there's degrees of. trauma some very severe to very mild um. and and so the latest studies and gabra. mate in his book um the myth of normal. is um published them to say but 75% of.

Americans have this subtle complex. trauma and and basically it's a child. that so if a child is always being made. teased by parents or ignored by parents. dad's always busy dad's in this chair. next to him but he's always watching TV. so he's physically there but he's not. there emotionally the child just doesn't. feel loved and accepted so they they. don't feel safe they don't feel they can.

totally. relax they have to somehow earn that. connection earn that love and so a. child has this inner trauma taking place. that's happening that's so subtle but. it's powerful and it's. really major upheaval internally that's. taking place inside the child it's. forming how they're going to behave oh. exactly so now they're going to start. these behaviors to try to get attention. to try to get connection but is some of.

that natural too yeah cuz a child and. that's it's built off very natural. things so the child has a natural. personality so they can be like. naturally funny but then they can take. that to just I got to be funny all the. time they can be naturally very child. every child wants to please and love but. now I'm going to be a hero I'm going to. get straight A's I'm going to do all the. chores I'm going to be a workaholic. because that's how I'll get validation. and acceptance got it so you were just.

talking about um isn't some of that. natural for a child so that so that. being wanting to help with the chores. that's a. wonderful Instinct that a child has but. now they're going to turn that into a. maladaptation so now I'm going to be a. people pleaser so I got to or I'm going. to be a perfectionist everything's got. to be perfect or I'm going to please. never say no to anybody just but then. I'm going to burn myself out I'm never. and I'm going to kill myself so that. adaptation you don't mean kill you just.

mean burn yourself out yeah okay um that. adaptation pleasing people and all of. that has become a Mal adaptation it's. now hurting me I see so a lot of CH. Children of the complex trauma have Mal. adaptations they all do they all do yeah. okay yeah and what are some symptoms of. complex trauma that you can see in. people so very common ones is. that they don't know who they are. because they've had to wear masks all. their life and they be um people.

Pleasers most have anger issues most. have authority issues because all the. authorities of their life have not been. healthy um most have some control. manipulation issues that are part of. that um a lot have lying issues they lie. when it would just as be as just as easy. to tell the truth but lying is what they. had to do to kind of stay safe um. because truth got them in trouble um um. there's a fear of failure a fear of.

change a fear even of success because. it's like uh oh everything's going too. good the other shoe's going to drop. something bad's going to happen so now I. better sabotage it wow so there's lots. it's a fear driven thing the fear of. rejection there's a desire for intimacy. but a fear of intimacy because then. you're going to get to know me then. you're going to reject me deep fear of. abandonment.

that anybody that gets to know me leaves. me um and so that you can see all of. that. becomes problematic in relationship. stuff and then trust issues oh God Tim. you're uh man a lot I. can I can yeah I can relate to a lot of. those things you know I can relate and. not to be careful when I when I think. about because at certain points in my. life I've had a lot I've had those. things and um.

uh but I have to be careful that I don't. immediately attach it to being a victim. even when I'm thinking about it right. now I don't want to be like okay some of. those things I've had in my life man. what a piece of [ __ ] I am right because. that's what will happen to us for me um. and if I can interrupt yeah no please so. what I would say is the core the worst. result that comes out of complex trauma. is how it changes your. self-identity so a child that's loved. and accepted is a positive self-identity.

I have value I I have something to offer. to the world a child with complex trauma. that's felt neglected it's my fault I. must not be good enough they have a. negative. self-identity um and and so because of. that I am a piece of [ __ ] no whoever. would want to get to know me um and so I. need to hide who I really am so that. core identity just affects every. decision they make every relationship. response that they have and that's.

probably the most hidden part of complex. trauma the hardest thing for people to. see because who understands shame what's. shame what's that but once you. understand it it's like whoa that. changes everything yeah and that's where. the healing really has to take place man. it's so funny you say some of this I. like there'll be times where um. yeah like if a a lot of times I'll take.

it to relationships if a girl rejected. me or wouldn't look at me. um man I it would attach itself to a. place in me almost like a uh like a. thought get got into a ferris wheel and. I didn't even know the ferris wheel was. going but this thought got into the. ferris wheel like a person getting into. a little Ferris wheel. compartment um and the ferris wheel was. just like you are just. just you are horrible yes you are and it.

just and it it was just like feeding. this old thing but it would it was crazy. how quick it would go from maybe if IID. asked her girl to a dance or even if I. just had some interest in my head but. she never looked at me or something and. I would immediately be like God yes man. what a [ __ ] you must just have you. must just be gross yeah so is that crazy. to say that to you not at all cuz shame. one of the most powerful aspects of.

Shame is that it creates this inner. critic in our brain that's C no matter. what we do it criticizes it it finds. fault with it and if we fail especially. it just beats us up and like we're in. the dog host for weeks it's just fogging. us um and it's just loud and it is. brutal there yeah it would be everything. you're poor your body's gross you're. you're ugly you're stupid you're ug. you're stupid nobody everybody want you.

you're never amount to anything you're a. failure [ __ ] I mean it was like a. machine gun yes um yeah and the craziest. part was now I have a little bit more re. I'm able to see it more but man for 30. years of my life I couldn't even see it. yes and that's so what. happens complex trauma for most people. begins from birth okay and so it's Prem. memory time preverbal time and so a lot. of the stuff that's happening in their.

brain is all happening subconsciously. they're they're not thinking about it. they're they're they're an infant. they're yeah it's it's it's all. subconscious so your whole subconscious. brain is forming is forming with all. this negative stuff um and. that's a real tragedy of complex trauma. is it's shaping the brain in the infin. Years with negative messages. lies negative perceptions that you're.

not even aware of there you just think. they normal and those can be like a. parent not looking at its child exactly. and not. interacting um there's probably. countless things that could uh create. trauma at that age right exactly so what. we know is a child needs to feel safe. they need lots of hugs and touches they. need eye contact that's how they learn. to regulate that's how they learn to. feel and experience emotions by. picking up on the parents emotions.

that's how their emotions get calmed by. looking into somebody who's calm um but. if they don't have that then it's like. it's me against a big bad world and I'm. only one week old like it's it's too. overwhelming it's too scary yeah you got. to be a gangster suddenly and you're. only seven days old exactly and you. can't even carry a gun exactly you. exactly and so that's a lot of pressure. ah imagine the pressure that a kid. starts to feel like a child starts to.

feel and that's why I say that's your. stress system is. activated and that's what we mean that's. complex trauma so that makes sense as to. why like if certain things will happen. in adulthood it'll immediately cause. stresses in me even if it's just normal. exactly like I have a lot of instances. where like even in intimacy situations. with women like somebody would touch me. and it would make I I like would feel. uh I'd feel overwhelmed yes you know I. would feel um yeah it was just like.

crazy it was just I don't know it was. and then I felt bad about myself yes. because again the second something was a. little bit off yes it would get into. that back onto that Ferris wheel of man. yes you don't must be something really. wrong with you yes you know yeah life. can be crazy sometimes one person's. negligence or company's negligence can. result in another's settlement if you've.

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using promo code Theo at. liquid.com. um can I just share uh some science. stuff here yeah I think it's really. helpful to understand trauma um you. really need to understand our central. nervous system and so it's really made. up of two parts so there's the. sympathetic nervous system and the. parasympathetic so the sympathetic is. your work. energy um it gives you the energy to.

fight or flight to work hard get up in. the morning go go go but then you need a. parasympathetic a balancing part that's. your rest healing restoration piece so a. child has to have that in Balance to be. healthy to grow but what happens in. complex trauma when you're in danger all. the time is you're you're sympathetic. all the. time because you got to be on guard you. got to be going you got to get.

validation you got to prove yourself you. got to work you got to earn so you got. to go go go you're driven and and so the. B the brain helps you with that it. releases cortisol when fear is and your. stress system activated and that. releases adrenaline so you can go on. adrenaline that gives you lots of energy. and you feel hey I can pull this off and. if you're young you've got the resources. to do that but the problem is you're not. engaging your parasympathetic and. usually around 30 or so it catches up.

with you wow and all of a sudden your. body says I'm not doing this anymore. right you're burning me out here and I'm. going to start shutting down and one of. the first things it does to help engage. the parasympathetic is to bring on. depression because depression brings in. the parasympathetic and it forces you to. slow down it forces you to shut down wow. and then for some they have they keep. pushing they keep pushing and some go to.

drugs cuz drugs will give you the energy. to keep going and they keep then your. body actually just burns itself out and. shuts itself down um and you have a. total not just an emotional burnout you. have a physical burnout wow so your body. can create depression right in order to. give the parasympathetic because then. you're at least going to slow down. you're going to exactly even if there's. these other side effects of how you feel. about it exactly wow so what happens to. a little child is how do they learn the.

parasympathetic they we call it a. co-regulator so Mom or Dad is regulated. emotionally as calm they're in their. parasympathetic so they look them in the. eyes and they regulate their own nervous. system to M and Dad but if Mom and Dad. are absent or Mom and Dad are angry all. the. time you you're Regulators not there or. they're regulated so they're triggering. you and keeping you full of fear and. anxiety wow so it's it's messing you up.

or if you have parents that just. are work work work if you relax you're. lazy if you're relax you're selfish. they're they're forcing you by this work. ethic to be out of balance and actually. it's creating very subtle complex trauma. because you're just a workaholic and you. feed off it and you're driven um but. what happens is that's normal right so.

then you're creating a normal that is. extremely abnormal exactly man I. um yeah just to have some part like uh. yeah my mother didn't look at me right. when I was a child I don't remember I. don't like uh and I don't say that I. don't need sympathy or anything I'm just. saying that as an adult right. recognizing that this child wasn't. looked at in the eyes um. my mother like I love my mother I'm.

thankful for her I'm glad I exist um and. but yeah she if there were an emotional. thing she couldn't connect like she. almost had like an emotional autism yes. like if if it were physical if I got. hurt she could help right the second I. got hurt but if I'm sitting across from. her feeling a certain way yes it doesn't. even it's like um there's there she she. won come to me she can't come to me she. would hug she couldn't hug me for more.

than like half a second okay uh and I'm. not saying that as like a whiny baby I'm. just I'm trying to relate to uh yeah. some of the stuff you're talking about. so one of the things that happened was I. noticed as I got older I didn't know how. long and my father was a senior citizen. and he was really. absent I didn't know how long to look. into somebody's eyes I remember yes so. I'd have this weird stuff sometimes. where I would like check in with. somebody's eyes but then look away while. I was explaining myself man yes makes me.

feel bad for myself not it doesn't make. me feel bad as an adult but it makes me. feel bad yes. uh that that kid had to do that so can I. speak scientifically to that again. you're okay okay. um so the first response to danger is. the brain releases cortisol which is. adrenaline and that gives you the energy. to fight or flight okay um so you get. you can fight harder you can run faster. because you got adrenaline happening but.

if you're too little to fight or. flight then that's cortisol is not doing. you any good and and if your parents are. punishing you for being angry Etc the. brain then switches and produces opioids. natural opioids and it says we're going. to shut down and so what happens with. that is the you dissociate you move. Inward and all the blood comes from the. muscles around the heart because it's. basically saying we're going to get.

ready to get hurt we're going to get. ready to get cut so we don't bleed as. much so we're going to put all the blood. around here so that if we get hurt out. here cut out here nothing is we're not. going to bleed as much really your body. does that yeah no way yeah so your. body's now gone to that fight ORF flight. don't work so now we're going to freeze. um and so then what some kids learn in. freeze is but I still need my need needs. met so now I learn to on so I will learn.

to say whatever you want me to say be. whatever you want me to be just don't. hurt me just put up with me whatever so. that's your four FS that develop but. what we what happens what are they. against so we know them fight flight. freeze and fawn wow but what has. happened is so fight or flight you're. basically your emotions are out. there freeze your emotions go in you.

shut them down and so most people with. complex. trauma don't do well with emotions they. shut down emotions they don't even know. they have emotions and so what we say is. that most complex trauma families they. have three emotions mad sad and. glad so Dad can be mad mom can be sad. but the kids got to be glad um man yeah. I remember like uh. I would ask people how do I feel about.

this which is crazy man I know it s some. of this I know sounds maybe crazy to. some people but yeah I remember I just. didn't even have any I didn't know how. like I felt about. anything I just knew uh how you felt yes. and how I needed to seem yes and so what. happens to a child who's fawning is I'm. more attuned to how you're feeling than. to how I'm feeling oh yeah I was falling. I was a damn Bambi baby you know what. I'm saying I was like a Bambi in Memphis. I would you know so I know your emotions.

better than my own I know what you think. and believe more than what I think right. um because that's how I need to survive. is I need to be more attuned to you than. I am to me yeah uh for me I noticed like. um well for a long time I didn't know. what was going on and for me I got into. recovery programs in the 12 step and. that helped me for the first time have a. little bit of a clue I heard people. share stuff that things I could never.

put into words okay you know I mean that. was one of the blessings about being in. s's recovery in 12ep rooms was you had. like 20 people thinking at once yeah and. so sometimes someone would say what you. have just wanted to and couldn't um and. so that gave me a first start to look at. my at myself I was so. like I was so. to me I couldn't see me at.

all well and so some ways that. um that like things that were having a. tough time in my life huge problems. trusting people didn't trust huge. problems with that um one thing I. noticed really recently still. unrealistic. expectations uh of. myself and other people and I've always. had them you know it's like. um and I realiz that it's I think some. of it is.

like I want to make it so like I if I. have unrealistic expectations of myself. then I'm never going to be able to. achieve them the bar is too high right. and then I'll always be what I thought I. always was anyway exactly which was not. enough so that's where shame creates a. self-fulfilling prophecy yeah so that's. this that's like and I I now I'm able to. see that a little but before I was just. stuck on that Ferris. you know um and I still it still happens.

that that's a tough one recently for me. um oh self-pity that was a huge one that. was my biggest drug in life that I never. realized was self-pity and I I reframed. it for myself I was like oh if I just. keep trying I'll get everything I have. to work harder I have to be. better I can't go do something fun with. my friends I need to stay and write a. book or it just like anre. these unrealistic. expectations but I was always keeping.

myself in a place of self-pity without. realizing it because that was a side. effect of having unrealistic. expectations and man that self-pity was. but it looked like on the outside I was. trying to better myself so it was I was. always does it make any sense to you so. can I ask you with that CU what you're. describing is very common in the world I. work in so a lot would say unrealistic. expectations so you're always setting. the bar too high hard high for yourself. which is always leading to failure which.

is self-pity as the. aftermath um but what you're thinking is. but I'm trying I'm trying I'm trying but. what's happening often with the. self-pity and so here's my question is. there's this growing sense of. helplessness and hopelessness did you go. through that or was there always I can. somehow rise above if I just dig a. Little Deeper that was me okay and that. that's what I was talking about with the.

sympathetic nervous system I'm getting. tired I'm starting to burn out but if I. dig a Little Deeper I can push I can. push I can keep going until you. eventually do burn out yeah that's where. societal the society affected me because. there was always that you have to grind. harder the 70 minute work week or. something or like you know the four. minute relationship there's all these. books that come out like what this is. unrealistic man you know the 50c life.

and you're like that why would I even. want to do that exactly um and so that's. where Society even have pushed me even. further and about four years ago I had. like a breakdown it was like um I was. burned out I couldn't even listen to. Somebody talk cuz there was no yes you. can't concentrate and it made me uh it. physically exhausted me to listen to. somebody in a. conversation um and I kept working yes. there's episode this podcast where I I. felt it was it just man and just the.

fact that I then I start to feel bad. that I treated myself that way you know. um anyway can I share a little bit from. me so yeah please man I I got into this. work over 20 years ago but that was. after 7 years of burnout wow so I had. worked for um till I was 32 and all of a. sudden I was just tired all the the time. I couldn't sleep I was just and my eyes.

were getting like my wife would go. something's wrong with you your eyes are. really looking weird yeah you're looking. big are you're about to eat a a they get. dark and it's and uh and I went to. doctor after doctor and eventually put. me on disability but I went through. seven years of depression and hell and. anxiety and uh and when I came to the. end of what the government would give me. for disability. I had to go back to work so I just. worked on farms I milk cows I took care.

of horses oh yeah and that was very. healing for me that was very. therapeutic but then a a lady I knew she. came to me and said Tim we really need. help with this treatment center and I. think you'd be the perfect counselor and. that cow's out of milk too so let's and. I said that's raining I said I think you. got the wrong guy I can't go back to. that. world and she's she came back about.

three months later and she said Tim I. think you're the guy please give it some. thought and I said okay I'll go for the. interview um but when I went for the. interview and I said okay I'll give it a. try for three months but I told myself. if you don't make some major changes in. how you go about working you're not. going to make it so you got to radically. change your boundaries in life and. people please teing and and all of that.

but the first week as I was working with. these people with trauma and. addiction I was like this is what I was. made for wow these are my people and I. fell in love with it but it came after. all of all of my work came after seven. years of Hell burnout that I brought on. myself because of my trauma but you. didn't know it though right no I thought. I was doing right thing by pushing. myself I was being a responsible father.

and husband and so I had a 4-year-old a. three-year-old and a one-year-old oh wow. so you guys were really and making love. on the soul all sudden their dad just. was sick and in bed all the time and. they basically all went through. abandonment trauma CU their dad. disappeared from their life for seven. years. um and were you using drug did you use. pills and stuff you didn't you were just. depressed. yeah wow well one of the toughest things.

I found when I had when I was struggling. was uh when I was physically struggling. right like I gotten so depleted yeah. um that all the doctors I would go to. they couldn't really diagnose it EXA. exactly you know they take my chronic. fatigue syndrome yeah and you're looking. up all these crazy things and then. you're wear you know like at one point I. was just like I had on like one of those. i' bought like a posture organizer from. the uh thing and I just had like a. couple like some Shake Weights and some. like some weighted anklets on and people.

like what are you. doing and I'm like they say this works. you know like try the bracelets oh. everything oh my woop bracelet just. people bring me little mason jars of. their home concoctions that we going to. car. [Music]. me um and yeah um and one one of the. toughest places for me too was it was. relationships and it still is you know. um it still is uh a really tough space.

for. me it that also goes to unrealistic. expectations yeah you know I I don't if. things get tough I I'll leave yeah you. know. um you know. I I you know I heard you talk about fake. intimacy once do you know what I'm. talking about what were you talking. about about it I resonated with that so. every child Longs for. connection just built but if you can't.

get it you try to connect with Dad but. he's always too busy mom's always. depressed or angry you can't connect so. you assume it's my fault I must be. something wrong with me but I'm still. driven for connection but I don't want. deep genuine connection now because. that's always led to rejection so let's. try barroom intimacy let's try fake. intimacy let's just have fun all the. time and sports pervert and yes yeah.

pornography that sort of thing yeah CU. it gives the feelings of connection. without the true intimacy yeah but it. doesn't satisfy no but it and it sets up. addiction um and that's where most. people end. up sadly straying into that fake. intimacy world yeah like would you do. you think it's safe to say that complex. trauma makes. um having a healthy.

relationship impos. like like it's got to have a huge effect. yeah yes very much and impossible even. no makes it almost impossible for a. healthy relationship yeah so everybody. that I deal with. um as long as they're single they don't. think they need to work on their trauma. cuz yeah just me I'm I'm surviving soon. as they get in relationship then they. start damaging the other person then.

they have kids they're damaging their. kids and all of a sudden they go I got. to start working on my crap um but then. they go okay I'll just change this I'll. change this but it's not working why is. it not fixing the relationship and it's. cuz you're trying to fix the symptoms. you're not dealing with the root issues. that deep shame that deep lack of trust. that deep fear of intimacy and fear of. Abandonment and as as long as those are. still there they're going to.

keep getting in the way of true healthy. relationships um and so a lot of people. as long as the relationship's going. along smoothly it looks pretty good but. as soon as there's the slightest thing. that triggers Their Fear of Abandonment. or triggers their. shame big explosion they go back to Old. behaviors all of a sudden they're in. fight flight or freeze mode they're. lashing out they're running away and. that's when all the damage happens um.

and after a while there's so much. baggage from all the damage that you. just can't repair it yeah yeah yeah I. mean personally like I would yeah I've. had problem I mean certainly problems. with uh not cheating in relationships. I've never I've always I think I've. cheated in every relationship I've ever. been in sadly you know. um uh let me think oh um. like like would have problems with sex.

and stuff but if the person was going to. leave me then I could have it was like. my body would then entertain it you know. but otherwise uh like. [Music]. um yeah or if it was with a stranger it. was easier you know uh not a complete. stranger like somebody at a mall or. something but like a um you know with. somebody you know a bar sex or somebody. like that or just somebody you met at a. service area or whatever but um yeah.

that kind of stuff uh oh staying with. somebody man this is this is this. staying with somebody. uh be because I didn't want them to have. somebody else who would really care. about them yes or that could care about. him better than me yeah um even though I. knew I was doing a bad job y man it. makes me feel uh yeah I'm not proud of.

that and I didn't know but some a lot of. it man I didn't know until later you. know I just couldn't see it uh but yeah. stuff like that um oh thinking that my. partner a woman if my girlfriend or. whatever if they did something wrong. then it was me doing it wrong yes like. um yeah oh gosh if they if they're a. little off or something or they uh. do things a way that people don't like. that's a reflection of me totally yes.

you. know those are some symptoms that I had. you know so can I talk scientifically. again 100% you can talk in any pass you. want about it so to me it's so. interesting especially living in the. west is so much of our dating and. attraction in relationships is really. what we've come to understand is the. lyic or the emotion part of the brain. and the chemical oxytocin which is what. makes me feel in love and so that's.

released through when I see somebody. pretty when I touch them when I kiss. them when I have sex all of that. releases those Feelgood chemicals and I. feel in love I feel it's going to last. forever I feel intimacy though it's not. true intimacy it's the feeling of. intimacy um so that's a great starting. place for a relationship the problem is. you can't. sustain that just through sex just cuz. you still got life you got to. communicate you got to learn to accept.

and love and respect each other but if. you've never been taught how to do that. you don't so you just keep trying to. have sex keep trying to have fun but the. feelings are dying it's not releasing. the same oxytocin and so the. relationship is designed to start there. but it's designed then to move to the. cortex which is the thinking part of the. brain which then releases all of the. serotonin that comes through safety.

through connection through acceptance. wow and that's through building a life. working through issues resolving. problems really respecting trusting each. other that takes a lot of work that. takes time and most people from complex. trauma are scared to death to go there. so the sex is just are the that that. intimate connection up top is just like. a fuse kind of exactly and then the. other part is like a fire exactly. yeah man I just yeah and but Mo tried.

with complex trauma I just think I can. live up here in the fuse yeah I'm a fuse. monkey I'm up here yeah and that's going. to be great it just never satisfied yeah. never and then it's yeah I just and then. the second piece to me is what comes out. of complex trauma are you familiar with. the term gaslighting yeah but what is it. mean I always hear people say it but I'm. just too bored just too lazy to look it. up I think so if Dad is angry instead of. him being honest and saying I'm sorry.

I'm having a bad day you didn't do. anything wrong it's all on me he goes. you're a bad kid it's all your fault. that's gaslighting he's twisting it and. making you believe a. lie and so what happens in complex. trauma is constant gaslighting of a. child so that whenever any parent or. authority is having a bad emotion the. child has made to feel so it's their. responsibility to fix that.

emotion no it's not they can't fix their. dad's anger only dad can fix his own. anger but they're made to feel if they. just did more chores if they weren't. making noise if they were more agreeable. more obedient then Dad would never get. angry but Dad always gets angry but you. keep believing the gaslighting LIE yeah. so now when you go into relationship. soon as your spouse is a little bit sad. what did I do wrong oh maybe I should do. something here maybe I should do this. you still take responsibility for.

everybody else's. emotions and that sets up relationships. to be. codependent yeah I think. I there was a point I was like well I. have to be perfect then yes you know I. was like if I'm perfect right if I'm. absolutely perfect somehow then there's. no way I won't get what I need as a. child because even in the law of the. universe that wouldn't make any you know. it would feel like that wouldn't make.

any sense so can I ask you a question so. what happens often with a child is they. go to that perfectionism where I set the. bar too high for myself that I can be. perfect I I will have no limitations. I'll do everything perfectly the first. time but it also can create a fantasy. world where I'm going to be a Superman. I'm going to do. everything wonderfully I'm going to save. everybody so this so did you have that. fantasy thinking begin to develop in you.

um not that much I think when our when. this podcast started getting busier and. you have a lot of young guys who were. the same who had a lot of the same. thoughts and feelings that I did about. stuff would reach out as if I knew more. than them really when I really didn't I. was just kind of. um just have been kind of a late bloomer. you know and just learning uh in front. of people I guess because talked about. more stuff like that over the years um.

and then that for a little bit gave me a. fear of like well do I have some greater. responsibility like is God thinking like. I need you to help like there was. moments of not Grandeur but questions of. like I could easily see that thing like. start to get in you know um of like oh. then I must know everything you know uh. it didn't sprout in me but I could C. there was times where I [ __ ] even when. that started to happen I was like I I.

would be a failure at. that so there was thankfully at that. point there was some of that Ferris. wheel that brought me right back down to. the [ __ ] Carnival you know um but there. was some that that some of that kind of. nothing none of it as a child like if. I'm per I just set out on my own I. remember thinking I'm never going to let. anything Define me in this whole world. except for me right you never and I mean. even when I say it now I can feel.

like I mean I can [ __ ] feel it in my. like yeah no one is ever going to Define. me again right you are not going to have. a saying how I feel yeah and it comes. dude it comes from a place that's so. deep in me yeah I can't even yeah I can. barely sometimes I can it's like the. weather changes just enough where I can. see into the window of it a little bit. Yeah but the CL whatever it is the.

thejust quick again can I speak to that. just for a minute because part of my. concern has been a very popular term. these days is OD or oppositional. Defiance Disorder so kids are getting. diagnosed with odd all the time and it's. really been pathologized like it's bad. thing you've been you're a bad kid. because you got OD and what you're. describing in yourself to me as OD I'm. never going to let anybody Define me. again that's oppositional Defiance but.

really it starts out in complex trauma. and it's a healthy thing and it's a. child who's nobody's accepting me. everybody's trying to make me something. I'm not everybody's trying to control me. everybody's I got this rigid rules all. of this harsh discipline. Etc that's not right that's wrong that's. hurting me I need to be able to have. some freedom I need to be able to be.

myself and so we rebel against what's. unhealthy but people don't see that. we're doing something healthy they just. say you're. rebelling and they pathologize it oh I. see right if you're a rebel when you're. young they're like oh look at this Rebel. exactly but for you you're trying to. figure it out for yourself you're trying. to fix what's wrong right and make it. right you're not trying to be a rebel. you're trying to develop something. loving and.

healthy but what happens for most kids. is then they gain it that just gets into. their soul and now even if somebody. wants what's best for me I'm not going. to let anybody Define me so now I'm. going to rebel against good and bad and. that then. becomes a Mal adaptation right yeah a. lot of those old safety mechan a lot of. those old survival techniques become it. tips over the other side of the seaw.

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place again you know a lot of it is just. looking I'm trying to look at some of. this stuff with you you know because. it's it's interesting and it's amazing. how it still comes to the surface um. because a lot of it I haven't resolved. yes I think um I've taken care of some. of the stuff and I have a much better. understanding of a lot of it now um and. I'm able to see I'm able to see what's. going on a lot of times but some of it. is still unresolved for me so let's go.

into the uh just kind of the very basics. of healing yeah yeah no I think that's. good yeah I don't want to be like we've. had some of the experience we've had. some of that so yeah I want to get into. a part of yeah how does one locate their. complex trauma so they can begin to heal. it if it's possible. Y and that's the huge challenge is that. so much of it exists in the subconscious. mind so we're not even aware of all of.

these mechanisms and kind of. subconscious brain templates and. programs that have been operating our. life it's almost like we're an. autopilot um and because it's been. normal for us all our life we don't see. it as being abnormal or unhealthy and so. that's where taking a a program or. watching videos where you begin to grow. in self-awareness to understand trauma. to understand the the different. characteristics of trauma so we talk.

about 60 different characteristics the. patterns and your emotions the patterns. in your thinking the patterns in your. behavior in your. relationships and once you begin to grow. in self-awareness then you go oh wow. okay now I'm starting to see it but then. that goes okay now I know what unhealthy. is now I can Define it what's up what's. healthy I don't know what healthy and. that's where we talk about healing from. complex trauma requires reparenting you. need surrogate family that can begin to.

model healthy for you teach you healthy. and begin to help you learn healthy but. that requires the third piece and that. is connection and that's the thing I. fear the most if people get to really. know me they're going to reject me but. what I've been craving on my life is. true connection with safe people and so. trauma requires Safe People to heal it's. got an academic element of. self-awareness but it's got a a.

connection reparenting element as. [Music]. well yeah I I it's so hard to notice. [Music]. um yeah I would just think I was bad at. relationships for a long time I would. just think that. um you know and I was I mean I was just. think that I was a phander and man you. know kind of deal Gypsy whatever it is. is I don't even know what they call it. Gypsy boy or whatever and then.

um but yeah I I was like and I still. don't know how I'm going to do it like. if I think about like being in a. marriage a long term I don't know how I. could do it right you know I mean I know. for a while I resorted to pornography. for a while and uh but that lost its you. know I just learned through other 12. step just how negative it is for you and. so that's not a solution I mean I still. date and everything but I don't know if.

I when I think about. that it's like oh that feels harrowing. yeah but it used to be like if I saw a. family that was. functioning I was like what the [ __ ] is. this this is [ __ ] the dumbest thing. I've ever seen that's where I started at. yes and that's EXA that's a real thing. yeah and it and to even get to the point. now where I can even think about being. in a marriage or something for me that's. it's been a while you know it's been a. it's been it's been a ride you know and.

that to me is a common defense mechanism. of people with lots of trauma and shame. is I need to disparage anything that's. healthy yeah what the [ __ ] are you doing. who are you who do you think you are and. it's like I got to look down on. everybody to feel better about myself. even if I know I should be aspiring to. what they're they've got man and that it. hurts people so much when they're. behaving that way too that's the. toughest part is man I you hurt yourself.

yeah so to me what I say with complex. trauma is others wounded me when I was a. child I develop Mal adaptations the. longer I hang on to them the more I just. wound myself I don't need anybody to. wound me anymore because I just do a. great job myself yeah and I keep the. ferris will going you have a program um. react it's right is that it react so it. stands for Recovery education for. addiction and complex trauma okay so.

what what we found. was that 97% of addicts have complex. trauma I see so this a lot of this is. addiction focused. originally and so I started in the. addiction world and we were the only. Treatment Center in Canada that saw. addiction as a symptom of deeper. problems and the lady that trained me. said Tim your job is to find those. problems and complex trauma wasn't even.

on the radar then it was called adult. children of Alcoholics children whatever. adult children of dysfunction then it. became known as developmental trauma. disorder then excuse me then complex. trauma came in on the radar but. basically what it's saying is that we. always see addiction as a problem but to. an addict it was the solution to their. problems um and so until we begin to. realize what problem are they trying to. solve by turning to drugs and.

alcohol that deep loneliness the Deep. pain the Deep emptiness that deep. longing to feel connected all of those. drugs seem to solve that for them and so. we can't really help people with. addiction by just working on the. symptoms we got to get to that root. issue so we start so I was in um part of. Canada where all the treat centers were. talking about trauma and we got to be. trauma informed and so I asked them like.

is anybody willing to change their. program and none of them were um and I. had started some addicts asked me to. start a Friday night thing where I. started teaching this stuff so that's. where these videos started so I started. 17 years ago teaching around what I was. learning um and started with 50 addicts. coming out and it grew and grew and grew. um yeah your Channel's fascinating man. yeah and so what came out of that was.

when there were like 10 treatment. centers nobody would change their. program wow though they all said they. needed to start dealing with the trauma. so I said well I guess I I got to start. and I didn't want to start a treatment. center but I did so react started as a. treatment center for addiction and. complex. trauma um and it spread to three. different Loc ations in Canada um but. then covid hit and um so we put it.

online and then once people heard and we. called it lift just to give it a. different name because it was online and. once people heard about it now we have. people from 30 different over 30. different countries that are so that was. a blessing huh yeah and so now like. thousands are taking lift and it's it's. much more intense it's a 15we um program. but you get get you get a deep dive into. understanding trauma and then learning.

what a healthy life looks like and. connecting with a group of people in the. journey wow that's incredible man so in. the days when treatment centers just. basically worked on symptoms so relapse. warning signs triggers people places and. things um halt all of the hungry angry. lonely tired all of those different. things what they and what they saw was. their success rate was less than.

10% once we started react and we've kept. statistics our Su success rate is over. 50% let's go Tim that's great yeah. because you're dealing with helping. people deal with that core stuff that's. been the issue yeah well one of the. reasons that I loved being in AA I. didn't even know sometimes if I was an. alcoholic right I still question the. alcohol part I don't know but I know. that I would sit in meetings and people. would get get to share how they felt and. I never got to do that exactly you know.

like I. never no one ever asked me how I [ __ ]. F you know it was just like if I had a. feeling whatever it was I didn't. probably know what it was for years I. probably thought I had indigestion in my. brain you know like who knows but if I. had a fe I just I had to figure it out. myself yeah and. um yeah I mean it just so uh when I got. into the rooms and people could share. how they. felt and nobody could say anything. there's no cross talk allowed so.

somebody got to share how they felt and. it just got to sit there and. man I didn't know how much in my life my. whole life I needed not even maybe say. something but to even be in the. environment of that yes to have an idea. or a feeling or. thought be spoken into the world and. have it not completely rejected you know. because sometimes I felt like I uh. yeah I don't know I got to be careful. sometimes not to always take things back. to how I feel because my Fe like my.

feelings sometimes it's like a. secret it's like you know when somebody. puts a dollar on a string I'll go get. that dollar right to see how I feel. about something but I'll be they'll pull. me back into all that old shame yes so I. have to be careful of that um so what. are some of the mechanisms you guys use. in react like what are some of the. things that help people get to those. core issues so it's it's divided into.

two phases so part of what you realize. with trauma is it's healing trauma means. reprocessing it that doesn't mean just. going into the pain and sitting in the. pain as if there's benefit in just. feeling pain it means I'm going now with. tools so that I can learn from it so. that I can heal it so that I can grow. through it that's reprocessing it. um but there's a a risk in taking people. to reprocess it because you are opening.

a can of worms it is going to take them. to some pain and Trigger them and so. they need what we call agency they need. a certain amount of tools before they. ever get to the trauma or else the. trauma is going to overwhelm them I see. so you guys work on those to so phase. one is self-awareness basic tools. emotional regulation what to do if. you're triggered build. um a safe Community for people so that. they can share emotions and not have.

anybody judge them where people hold. space for them so that's phase one then. phase two we start digging into shame we. dig into anger we dig into emotions we. dig into boundaries we dig into grief. and loss um and so we start getting into. the kind of the main areas of trauma and. really help people begin to heal so the. first half of the week is really digging. deep into it and then the second half is. practical tools and what does healthy.

look like um shame is such a huge magnet. huh it's huge how does that how does. shame. start is that a fair question about. shame what's a I think. it's it starts with the parent child. relationship not being right right is. shame originally a positive thing there. must be a is there a certain value to a. little bit of Shame like what is a. little bit of Shame. so some people have tried to make a. distinction around healthy shame versus.

toxic shame right okay but to me healthy. shame is actually. guilt okay so guilt is if I do something. that violates love I tell a lie I hit. somebody I cheat on them I should feel. guilty right that's natural because that. motivates me to get back to a a loving. healthy situation CU as long as I stay. in stuff that violates love I'm. destroying relationships I'm making a. worse life for myself so guilt is a good. thing and I can resolve guilt so it's.

about what I do that violates love shame. is about who I am it's nothing about. what I do wow so that's huge to notate. those two things like it can be okay to. feel some guilt about things it's. important that's me getting a sign like. hey man this is a it's almost like a. U-turn sign it's like a good road sign. really even though it hurts some you. need that because it's help helps you. recognize you're going against love. exactly you're doing something against.

love but then. shame is unhealthy and I can do nothing. about it so shame is about who I am that. I'm not good enough right shame I then. attach whatever I did immediately and. that feeling and that's where the two. then feed each other soie you are soon. as they do something wrong that proves. my shame right that I'm useless and that. goes back to that. child that child. doing something wrong something's wrong. in his world in her world and they they.

they don't know how to solve it cuz. they're a child so the and all the only. person in the world is them so if. something's wrong in their world or. they're not getting what they need or. their needs met then of course it must. be their fault that's where shame builds. exactly so that's where we say that a. key part of complex trauma is false. guilt so you're made to feel. guilty though you've done nothing wrong. which then feeds shame so Dad says I'm. mad because you're a terrible kid well.

no that's not why dad's mad or I drink. because you're a terrible kid yeah Dad's. mad cuz he's a lions fan you know. exactly and so it's it's you're you're. now feeling I did something wrong. therefore I am wrong right right yeah. man and so to help people heal they got. to deal with legitimate guilt and they. can fix that they got to correct all the. lies that led to false guilt so every. time that somebody's impatient with them.

they go what am I doing wrong you're not. doing anything wrong that that's the. other person's problem um or somebody's. upset with them because they said no no. you set a good. boundy you shouldn't apologize for that. but they feel guilty or they relax for a. few minutes I'm lazy no you're not. you're. relaxing you got false guilt from lie. after lie after lie so you got to. reprogram that then you got shame that. I'm therefore not good enough which is. all based on lies and that's all got to.

be reprogrammed and that takes a ton of. work does it yeah what does some of that. work look like if you even yeah I would. say sh shame to me is the biggest. healing Journey that comes out of. complex trauma and it takes the longest. and takes years wow because there's so. many thousands of subtle lies that. people develop that they don't even. realize yeah um and the problem is they. get triggered easily and then all of a. sudden they're spiraling downhill that. I'm a piece of [ __ ] and they don't know.

why but it's something's triggered an. old lie that's led to that proves that. I'm useless um and so there's a big. journey in self-awareness and beginning. to understand the lies that I believe. that are below the surface that are. subconscious beginning to understand the. things that trigger that begin to. understand the patterns that take place. once I'm triggered and where I spiral to. and stopping those patterns that's the. work and so if I can give one other.

piece of teaching are you okay so it's. so key with complex drum to understand. the two parts of the brain that are kind. of the main things that motivate our. Behavior so the lyic system which is the. emotion Center that's the child's brain. that's the that develops first yes then. the cext that keeps growing to our. 35ish the thinking the executive. function that gets called that processes. information the key thing about the lyic.

brain the child brain is its instant. gratification Focus so a child do you. want to do your chores or do you want to. sit here and watch TV well whatever. makes me feel good right so that. determines what I want to do and then. whether I want to do something is I. don't feel like it I don't feel like. doing that or I want a new puppy I feel. like like feeding the puppy until I. don't feel like feeding the puppy so. emotions guide my behavior and.

everything is instant gratification. focused wow and a lot of that if you if. you had trauma as a child then you're. still even that even that can be a. pattern that you still continue because. yeah that's a lot of addicts so the key. with that is that when fear is triggered. that's lyic brain so if you're in. complex trauma you're in constant fear. so you're constantly in your lyic brain. so your cortex doesn't developed. properly so an adult or a teenager. they're going through gradually.

switching to their cortex and learning. to think stuff through complex trauma. you're still in your lyic brain still. thinking only of instant gratification. what do I feel like what everything is. about emotions even though you're not. aware of your emotions and so a huge. part of what happens with shame when. it's triggered is I could be living as. an adult today out of my cortex making. good decisions healthy decisions when my. shame gets triggered it triggers my. limic brain again wow and I go back to a.

child and I think like a child and I. believe the lies of the. child and so what you realize is the the. battles in your brain between your. cortex in your lyic brain they believe. two different things depends on what. gets triggered wow it's almost like you. have a heaven in hell right there kind. of exactly oh my gosh and so that's. where people with shame they can be. doing wonderful great in relationships. and their shame gets triggered and all. of a sudden they're destroying everybody. calling their kids terrible names.

calling their partner terrible names. yeah and it's like what just happened. there well you went to your lyic brain. and you acted out of that shame lie. that's when the damage gets done those. triggers huh those things it's wild you. had to go back to that yeah so you can. you can imagine though how long that. would take to heal cuz when that trigger. hits like it hits with an intensity of a. locomotive um because it brings with it. cortisol it brings with it all the.

chemical all the drugs yeah and how do. you stop that like the Train's out of. the station here buddy oh yeah if. somebody pulls up with a train full of. drugs dude it's gone I'm getting on to. exactly going to tell you that right now. and I'll probably sit in business class. but. um yeah. my my brother son would say uh F trying. to locate that shame and stuff it was. like taking panties out of a. bathtub that's what he talks about it. like sometimes yes some days you get a.

couple and suay you you just you don't. even know you're in it yeah so as a. person grows in healing so let's say you. would get triggered and you start. spiraling but you've got enough. self-awareness you'd catch yourself. right and you I know what's going on. here then you ground yourself you. regulate your emotions and you get back. to your cortex and you go hey I'm. believing lies there I'm not that. useless person right and I don't have to. do that and you get and so what you find.

is all of a sudden that spiral just. stopped so instead of being in it for 4. days you're now only in it for 15. minutes and you caught yourself now. there's going to be a bit of a hangover. effect as you kind of keep working. through emotions with it but within a. day you're back to being in a pretty. good place and you've grown a little bit. and then because of that you probably. won't get triggered as intensely in that. area again because you've grown so that.

next time something happens the trigger. won't be intense and it won't be as. frequent and so over time you're growing. with greater infrequency and less. intensity until you don't get triggered. there anymore um but that can take few. years but it can happen it can happen. wow it's really it's really possible it. is yeah man um yeah do you get a lot of. people who are feel like at they're at. their Wits End what are like things you. that you're seeing people doing outside.

of drugs uh patterns that um I would. love to if it's okay to hear about some. of those um because I would love for. people to know that these types of. things are repairable yeah I would say. some of the main ones that I would see. right now are um mental health issues. like major depression anxiety issues. that just make life unlivable really and. are really getting in the way of. relationships family stuff like that.

secondly is anger issues that just the. flareups and the outbursts that's what I. have and the Damage that it does that. just brings them to a desperation point. that I got to get help or I'm going to. lose everything. um then with younger people there's this. greater and greater kind of self harm um. suicidal. ideation deep in their thinking that's. going on eating disorder stuff that is.

slowly getting them to a point where. they go I think I got a problem so. that's big but I think maybe the biggest. one right now is the number of people. burning out they just. are like working 6080 hour weeks and. they're getting to a point where. they're just can't do this anymore. what's going on with my life. um but I think to me the biggest one.

that probably gets. people is relationships just especially. when they have kids is I can't I got to. be a better dad than my dad was and. right now I'm though I said I'd never be. like my dad I'm becoming like my dad I. know I can I. can man that's got to be tough huh yeah. and it's just a wake up call for them. that rocks their world but that's what. they need and what they so that's one of.

the biggest pressures you see with. people in just that having to be better. than their parents or is it like what do. you mean relationships with kids things. just start to get tougher or they fall. apart yeah so they you get um their kids. start rebelling or their kids are. getting into drugs or their kids are. cutting and they're going like I'm. failing as a parent why what's what. then they start to think about it and. they go yeah okay I get it um I came.

from crappy upbringing and I'm passing. it on and they I think what they realize. is complex trauma tends to be. generational really if I don't deal with. it I pass on what I've learned oh of. course and I do it to my kids um because. to me that's all I know those the only. Tools in my toolbox I'm going to use. them um and so it becomes a generational. thing and when you see what you're doing. to your kids you go oh the proofs too. real I can't do that to my kids because.

I know what it did to me um wow that's. interesting yeah when you have a child. you really get to see the proof of the. recipe you yeah made and then you. realize you're the damn ingredient well. exactly and the other piece to that is. what happens for a lot of kids is when. you're living in constant pain that you. can't resolve you go how do I make the. pain go away well I can. escape or. I cannot care so don't love anybody shut. down love and not care just get hard.

insight and they can do that and pull it. off. and and look like they're successful. until they have kids and all a sudden. Love Takes love wins huh yeah and all of. a sudden they love again and they. go everything matters now again and I. got to do something so wow that's got to. be scary yeah I got I got got two things. actually uh Tim. so is it possible for parents to do a.

good job I don't want to get just stuck. in this place where it's like we're just. contributing to this thing in the world. that everybody's damaged and that we all. need help um that's one question and. just so I don't. forget when we say like things are. generational do you think. that where we are now and like people. there's a lot more mental health issues. and stuff like that is it because just. how we've gone through time and this is. where we're ending up at as humans um is.

it because uh you know I've had theories. that maybe it's because we don't have to. uh have fear of the like a bear in the. woods as much anymore so now that fear. turns inward and so we're hunting this. bear inside of us or this lion in the. shadows all the time you know like um. but yeah those are those are my two. questions like um why do you think it's. kind of coming to a head in a lot of. ways and is that just in America too is. it just in like Western.

culture um I would say probably Western. culture we about 10 to 20 years ahead of. a lot of cultures and understanding this. um I think to me what's happened is the. research scientifically that's been done. on the brain and Trauma in the last 10. to 15 years has really started to open. people up to understanding stuff and.

what we' begun to realize is you can't. heal trauma just with knowledge you need. safe connection oh yeah you got to have. an environment where people can talk. about it and people have started to. create those environments and people are. starting to talk um and so in some ways. it's like it's it's a new phenomena but. it's the way it should always have been. that we could talk about what's really. going on um but we're getting there. gradually um but I think it's really.

been fueled by a lot of the research. that's been happening and the growing. understanding of how magnificent our. brains are and how they develop and all. of that and how childhood used to be all. about like nurture vert versus nature. and it was all about you know it's your. genes etc etc really all the evidence is. no it's nurture it's it's what happening. in that child's life that's shaping them. and forming how they look at the world. and think about themselves that's the.

key thing and epigenetics is all about. nurture and it even determines how our. genes fire um and so so it's it's really. beginning to understand more. scientifically what's been happening. that's been so. key I think when it comes to Parenting. the so a couple thoughts the the danger. is every parent wants to be a perfect. parent and it's really important to go.

it's all about good enough parenting. nobody's a perfect parent but we can be. good enough parents that means we're. going to fail we're not g we can't be. Superman to our kids we we have. limitations we can't be awake 247 but we. can be good enough so a child needs. parents who are attuned to them and who. connect now you don't connect 247 with a.

child but they need a few minutes a day. of just really safe connection with the. parent to feel okay this is my rock this. is I'm secure everything's okay with the. world um and parents can provide that. good enough connection and so what's. been so important I think for parents to. understand is our whole focus in the. west as parenting is you got to meet the. physical needs physical needs pH you. know you got to make sure they're get. their milk at this time and they get to. bed and they have safety and all what.

we're realizing is the child's biggest. needs are emotional needs and there's. acceptance and that Attunement and and. that connection all of those needs are. so important for a child if they're. going to develop normally and healthily. yeah and if parents can learn how to. meet their emotional needs of their kids. that's what they can do so the other. piece to that is we often talk about.

dysfunctional family and we think the. opposite of dysfunctional is a perfect. family but there's no such thing as a. perfect family right so the word dis is. actually a Greek word that means pain. and so it's a family in pain is a. dysfunctional family so it's a a family. that's inflicting pain on each other but. is never resolving it so it's a complex. trauma family so the opposite of a. dysfunctional family is a functional. family which is a family that inflicts.

pain once in a while but they resolve. it and by resolving that pain then the. child isn't traumatized because it's. getting resol right yeah that processing. is so huge exactly I think when I think. back on my own life um and not to just. talk about my own life I guess I just. want I'm trying to have share like just. so I can try and relate you know. um I'm not sitting here trying to be. like oh my my life but uh yeah I would I.

if somebody had been there to be like. hey this is what's happening and this is. why it's happening oh man because. otherwise yeah I was just trying to. figure everything out for myself and uh. there was never just any information. there was no I felt that's what I felt. like when I was a kid I felt like I. worked at a restaurant right that I had. to work at every day. and I never got paid and I never knew. what was on the menu and I never even. knew if we were open or closed you.

didn't know where the pots and pans were. but I had to be there every single day. yeah and I had to show up to work yeah. that's how I felt and it. um yeah I don't know what that means or. anything well I think for a lot of kids. and complex trauma they feel like. they're chasing their tail running in. circles in a fog um they just know. they're supposed to be doing something. that nobody's showing them what to do so. they're running around hoping that. they're going to figure it out but.

they're not sure if they're figure so. there's just this constant Haze of. confusion yeah that's there and so. unsafe man I remember I mean I wet the. bed I was probably 27 probably y I mean. I remember at when I would go to bed at. night it felt like I was literally. clocking in for a job as like an orderly. at a hospital because I knew in a couple. hours I was going to have to get up and. change my sheets and sometimes I wet the. bed three or four times a night to be. honest and um and that's very common.

with complex trauma I would pee around. my bed I thought that something was. going to come get me and I'd heard that. like animals will pee and prevent other. animals from coming mark the territory I. mean it's C when I think back on that. some kid doing that a [ __ ]. nine-year-old kid doing that I mean I. was like the pattern I had to go through. to look around my room to make sure. there was nothing in there was going to. get me it must have taken 12 minutes. each night to do it all the exact same. way yeah so that I could then get into. my bed man I was and then we get.

children that um kind of sleep with. their back against the wall facing the. door um so that they're not going to. have anybody behind them and and they. can see anything that comes in some even. sleep with a weapon nearby in case. something happens that's. crazy yeah and yeah and I think of my. stuff my my my child is pretty light. when I think about what some kids could. go through yeah you know mine was really. more neglect it wasn't any AB you know.

um but it was just wandering around in a. [ __ ]. yeah at an empty Costco with a [ __ ]. name tag on wondering where the manager. was you know um anyway sorry sometimes. I'm still I still have a lot of anger. about it it's been hard to process over. the years yeah no but to me you. should and. if I can just speak to that yeah cuz to. me what happens in a lot of complex.

trauma families is anger is seen as bad. you're always punished for anger but. when you think about anger anger is. actually designed to be something good. if something violates love so somebody. lies to me or somebody cheats on me I. should get. angry because what they're doing is. going to destroy the relationship if. they don't fix it so anger is. actually a healthy thing that motivates. me to act to say hey this isn't right. this is this is wrong but in complex.

trauma that gets knocked down never. validated judged and so part of the. healing Journey for a lot of people is. being able to validate their anger yeah. I should be angry because that was crap. I shouldn't have been neglected like. that I'm not going to stay there I'm not. going to feed it and turn it into deep. bitterness but I need to let that anger. be honest if I'm gonna. heal yeah sometimes as an adult I feel.

like I've I'm Healed from it sometimes. but I still feel like that kid is not. happy exactly that's literally what it. feels like sometimes yeah like he comes. up to the surface of my [ __ ] throat. yes literally he'll be just playing in. the distance and he'll run up and yell. out [ __ ] you exactly just right out of. the I canot it's like exactly and and I. say okay that's where he's at you know. what I'm saying we're going to cheap. work with him but um yeah I think a lot. of my a lot of my anger now is from I. have unrealist realistic expectations of.

people of myself yeah I didn't even. realize it literally like three or four. days ago somebody brought it to my. attention man uh my brother and I was. like oh my gosh I've had them since I. was my whole life I've had this to-do. list that I don't even know I feel like. every. day I'm already behind schedule and I. don't have a schedule yeah. that's what every single I'm running. behind got to do this what is it I don't.

know but we better get we I got to do it. and that's how I am like No And nothing. no one can ever do anything perfect. enough you. know so to tie that in with what you. just. shared what we found with most people. with complex trauma is what they begin. to realize is it's like there's a part. of them that got left behind that's. still a child so some refer to as like. their their inner child but the little. boy that's still down there and some. have a whole bunch of little boys that.

are different ages and different well. that person is a politician. exactly um but anyways what they. realized is they there's a part of them. that kind of hates that little boy. wishes you shut up and and quit bugging. them and grow up and all of that kind of. treats them like they were treated and. they have to learn to love and nurture. that little boy okay cuz that's part of. them and and just welcome them make. space for them be Cur what's going on.

why are you upset like I'm not going to. judge you just help me understand and. then help them process through it cuz. nobody helped them process through it. and eventually that little boy can heal. um and so that's a useful tool for a lot. of people is beginning to go let's. welcome that little boy and parent that. little boy even though it's me but it's. part of me and and it's a part of me. that got wounded so if somebody's.

sitting there right now is's listening. right and they're like how would you. start to have some of that conversation. with yourself and is there a certain. setting you would kind of do it in just. to even try and get us some awareness of. that inner child as people. say a lot of it it's different for. everybody and and so you got to kind of. find what works for you what what some. people do is they can go in their. imagination to kind of a safe place in. their house that they liked as a kid or.

a safe place in the backyard or a tree. or something in the woods whatever and. they can go there and kind of picture. that little child and connect with that. little child others can do it through. going through like picture albums see. when they're four years old when they're. s years old and go oh I remember what I. was feeling then and what I was thinking. or the other one is when they get. triggered and that voice in their head. and they go whoa okay that how do I feel.

right now and they go I feel three I. feel eight and it's like okay let's. connect with that part of me and that's. that part of your limic brain that's. been triggered which doesn't keep track. of time that's still stuck at that age. wow yeah that's a great point when. that's happening that part of you is. showing up exactly so that's as crazy as. it is it's a great time to connect what. I say to people is a trigger don't get. down on yourself if you get triggered go.

a trigger is my little boy saying. ouch and be curious and go it's trying. to get my attention saying there's a. wound here that never has what's going. on buddy exactly yeah yeah I went to. this Center for a week it was in. um this was in Scottdale it was about. like um. Sexual Health not necessarily about. actual physical active sex but like.

emotional health emotional Wellness all. that and uh we had to go get a doll from. a dang um yeah baby uh oh build-a Bears. so we roll up in build-a Bears dude a. couple I mean we got out of a white van. and went in there so obviously we look. like politicians you know uh so we perss. yeah definitely perpetrators. like one of us definitely a Peeping time. you know um you giving out candy at the. back we look like flashers that had gone.

on a field trip that's what we look like. we look like definitely and they were in. there buying doll and there's like these. other uh there's other people like. there's kids in there getting it was. just like the whole thing was just so. bizarre but. then you'd have to sit with this dang. doll and just talk you know like and. every now and then there was some. moments of like you could almost feel a. doll as be like hey man just sit here. with me for a little bit Yeah you could. almost Fe it was like a feeling you. would get like hey.

just just stay with me for a minute yeah. like man if what if I was when I was a. kid if if somebody just stayed with me. for a minute made a big. difference [ __ ] man I can't. even I mean a minute you know yeah it. just would have had a. uh it would have made me feel like. you know like somebody wants to be there. with me you know I just. [Music]. never I can't believe I even you know.

I'm not trying to have self-pity but I. just can't believe that [ __ ]. man and I'm fortunate that we have had. food and stuff on the table I can't. imagine in places. where kids don't have that or don't have. a sibling to at least like come in the. room and make them smile or something. man yeah it's heartbreaking it is they. should have a program when you leave the. hospital your child that there's a you. know what I'm saying like even a basic y. like hey look in your child's eyes this. is how you do this these are the these.

are four thing you know like do they. have anything like that they're starting. to. um oh what's her name she's out of San. Francisco she just wrote a book called. the deepest well now it's a good book. yeah and she's been very much involved. with with Ace which is ad um adverse. childhood experiences the ace test you. take yeah oh I think I 10 questions or. something yeah and she's uh she was a.

pediatrician in San Francisco Nadine. Burke Harris is her name okay um so. she's moved up the ranks in San. Francisco and she started um parenting. courses for people so Desmond Tu who. said we got to stop pulling people out. of the river we got to go down river and. stop them from getting pushed in the. river. and that's what this is all about we got. to start working with parents so we've. act we're actually developing a.

parenting course that we're piloting. piloting right now just. because it's it's great work helping. people get healthy in their 40s and 50s. but we got to help parents not pass this. on yeah we got to fix it try to help at. the beginning some yeah um let me. thinking what were we just talking about. before a yeah the ace is the aces quiz. right. here this is a. fascinating I I took this test in uh in.

a treatment facility and it blew my mind. um let's go back just a little bit R. just want to read the. top okay what to know before you take. the quiz researchers determined that 10. specific traumatic childhood experiences. or Aces could be linked to a higher. likelihood of health challenges later in. life and that the likelihood of these. negative effects increased with the. number of Aces a child. experienced um Tam you want to take us.

in a little. further so the whole so these were. really developed with a focus mainly. on. abuse and and so we still use it because. it's very effective but it's that hidden. neglect stuff it touches on but it. doesn't develop and so most. professionals now use this test but then. we add other stuff to help people. capture some of the neglect stuff but.

what what basically has come out of the. ace stuff test um. is through years of tracking people with. it is if you have two Aces or three Aces. more Aces you get the more your chances. of depression mental health issues the. more your chances of drug alcohol. addiction the more your chances of. violence in the family like um abuse. partner abuse the more are your chances. of su attempts it's just it and then.

your greater your chances for heart. issues diabetes health issues it just. messes everything up in your body it's. fascinating um it says here the 10 Aces. and we'll get to the questions in a. second we're defined as the following. child exper child childhood experiences. physical sexual or verbal abuse physical. or emotional neglect separation or. divorce a family member with mental. illness a family member addicted to. drugs or alcohol a family member who is. in prison witnessing a parent being. abused um it says still there are.

variables that the quiz doesn't account. for including stressors outside of the. home as well as the important role. positive influences play on buffering. the effects of. trauma so let's see those questions real. quick um did a parent or other adult in. the household often or very often a. swear at you insult you put you down or. humiliate you or be act in a way that. made you afraid that you might be. physically.

hurt um did a parent or other adult in. the so that's number one so there's 10. questions here and the more you get. right the the odds of. countless tougher pastures in your life. yes the consequences the ramifications. just grow did a parent or other adult in. the household often or very often often. push grab slap or throw something at you. or B ever hit you so hard that you had. marks or were injured did an adult or.

person at least 5 years older than you. ever touch you or fondle you or have you. touch their body in a sexual way or B. attempt or actually have oral anal or. vaginal intercourse with. you four did you often or very often. feel that a no one in your family loved. you or thought you were important or. special or B your family didn't look out. for each other feel close to each other. or support each. other you want to do these Tim Y is that.

okay. yep did you often or very often feel. that a you didn't have enough to eat had. to wear dirty clothes and had no one to. protect you or B your parents were too. drunk or high to take care of you or. take you to the doctor if you needed it. and number six were your parents ever. separated or divorced. and I would just say that lots of. research is starting to happen around. the effects of divorce on children. because often we think it doesn't affect.

them that much because they still see. both parents but it does and it's just. very subtle but it's powerful so was. your parent caregiver a often or very. often pushed grabbed slapped or had. something thrown at him or her or b. sometimes often or very often kick. bitten hit with fist or hit with. something hard or see ever repeatedly. hit over at least a few minutes or. threatened with a gun or.

knife did you live with anyone who has a. was a problem Drinker or alcoholic or. use street drugs number nine was a. household member depressed or mentally. ill or did a household member attempt. suicide and 10 did a household member go. to prison so those 10 questions right. there the more you answer if if you even. get three of those oh yeah yes your odds. of yeah addiction I think are above.

50% yeah that's. unbelievable. because I don't know I don't think I. know 10 people that don't have at least. two of them exactly and you notice it's. talked about neglect just a little bit. but it doesn't go into workaholic dad. narcissistic dad all the subtle little. types of neglect and that's so we've. actually created a an ace test of 65.

questions that. really capture all the nuances of. neglect. interesting yeah this I just remember. read I remember we in this in this uh. facility we all went over this and then. people read theirs and half of the class. and some of the people in the class were. like Mayors in their towns and stuff and. they had really some of them had really. beaten some unforeseeable odds yeah you. know and then it made sense to you when. you looked around back around my high. school with certain kids are like oh. yeah it makes C total sense why that. kid's not alive anymore or why that.

guy's in prison or um or why that guy's. in you know in a rehab facility pretty. wild pretty wild um but I don't want to. get into that Downer mentality but it is. just fascinating there's a lot out there. you know yeah um and that just supports. like so much of the research that's. happening right now just in. understanding the effects of childhood. on a so we're not just blowing hot air. here this is all well researched and.

continues to be researched in great. detail and it's just growing and growing. in our understanding of this very. important topic yeah yeah and that's. what I think I was just curious about I. just want if people are like cuz here's. where I found myself I found myself in a. place for me where I. couldn't understand why I wasn't able to. do certain things like especially like. with relationships and stuff like that I. kept thinking that it would change and.

um and it and it just hasn't it's gotten. better things have gotten better I'm a. lot more aware I don't make a lot of the. same mistakes as I used to I don't get. people into situations that I'm leading. them to believe that there's something. that you know if there isn't something. you know. like but I still have just a severe fear. of a lot of it um um and as you get. older it's like well how the heck am I. ever going to have a family then you. know will I ever be able to have that or. should I just you know keep to myself.

more you know not in a negative way but. in a posit you know it's like so I would. and I say this all the time to people. that come to our program there is hope. but be prepared it takes a lot of work. and it's not a quick fix this is going. to take a lot of time um because this. started in childhood and you don't undo. that overnight but there is hope yeah I. heard you talk on one of your thanks.

thanks for saying that to me and just. anybody that's listening you know and I. believe that um I believe that when I go. into meetings and you see guys that like. two years ago were like addicted to. prostitutes and now they're getting. married and they're having children it's. like you see people change their lives. or guys who had never even been on a. date in 2 years and were just addicted. to pornography and didn't even realize. they were addicted it was just a pattern. of comfort y I remember when I found my.

wiener dude when I was probably I don't. even know once I found something that. could make me feel good yep so soothing. I yeah you could play all the uh you. could play all the Madden you wanted I. was like I had my own game exactly you. know what I'm saying dude and I was. two-point conversion and all the time. bro I was doing it it was like that was. unbelievable to me I I would bike across. town to go look at pornography at my. buddy's house going and digging up.

pornos over there man it was just cuz it. was the first time I also had a. relationship with a woman even was just. on a damn page or drawing we had a doe. to with draw you some ovaries or. something for the weekend so can I speak. scientifically to that again I I don't. want to go too long here but okay cool. yeah and sorry and I just talking about. a lot of stuff to I just sorry we're. doing our best so what what we know is. when you look at the brain chemicals the. brain only produce is designed to.

produce positive chemicals so you got. dopamine pleasure chemical then you got. serotonin that Feelgood. connected what you get um ecstasy part. of and then you've got oxytocin I'm in. love chemical so those three chemicals. are designed to be produced all the time. in the brain of a child because they. connect with a parent a so they they. feel good they feel a deep Joy they feel. a deep contentment and their needs are.

being met and that's so connection and. the meeting of needs causes those. chemicals to be released complex trauma. you're not connecting and your needs. aren't being met zero chemicals wow so. what's your brain feel cortisol anger. hyper. pain Rebellion all of that is happening. so what do you then find the first thing. that gives you. comfort and part of what we know is your.

parents are supposed. to soothe you when you get disregulated. when you have negative emotions but if. you can't connect to them then you're. not being soothed properly so you find. the first thing that self soes and so. some people rock some D we would rock my. brother and I's beds were on Wheels and. and in the morning they would be in the. corner of the other corner of the room. exactly we would rock all night like. that and so what we know is when you cut.

it actually releases opioids in the. brain and so you you don't feel the pain. you feel the relief of the Good Feeling. wow and so guys find their wiener and. all of a sudden they get a good chemical. in their brain mhm well that's better. than no chemicals so let's go back and. let's get more serving up that wiener. sace baby it was horrible but that's. crazy so it yeah it's like oh this is a. good feeling exactly of course I'm going.

to do it again and again exactly why. else wouldn't I the second something. triggers me I feel bad I'm going to make. myself feel good now I have the ability. to make myself feel good that was the. first time in my life I had the ability. any like method you know that's why I. think it's so important. to your child just doesn't know how to. make themselves feel better so if. something is wrong with your child you. have to sit and teach them I'm not. trying to preach at people but I I wish. somebody from me had sat and said hey.

right now you feel this way this is. going to you're going to be okay it's. everything you're going to get to here. everything's going be okay and I'm going. to sit here with you exactly why you do. it exactly you know and um yeah man. stuff like that just so crucial yeah um. when it when it before you go Tim and. thank you so much man really really. appreciate it I really kind of think of. this as a service call in a way pleasure. um and just grateful man um so many your. videos you have the one it's like uh.

you're leaving can I will you take what. is that video title it's the. codependency one yeah um if you leave. can I come with you. [Music]. yeah yeah it's just so like get out can. I come with you it's like that was like. God um yeah what what's kind of is it's. this it's. uh um complex trauma isn't a one there's. not one fix really right it's um what is.

there how do you view like the repairing. process. overall and I think it's great to. emphasize that there's not just one fix. because so much of the focus in the west. has been. around let's just um do this one program. and then all like you're magically going. to be fixed so we're always looking for. almost like a magical solution oh even. with treatment centers it's like here's. a 30-day Treatment Center what are you. going to do on 34th day exactly you know.

what I'm saying that's unbelievable that. it's a thir 30 days doesn't really it'll. help you detox exactly exactly anyway. sorry so what we teach our clients is we. are intellectual beings we're physical. beings we're emotional beings we're. relational beings and we're Spiritual. Beings we have to learn to meet all five. the needs of all five of those areas if. we're going to going to be healthy and. that's what parents were supposed to do. is meet the needs of all five of those. areas but now we got programs that just.

try to do a spiritual only solution that. doesn't work others try to do just let's. do this one little emotional gimmick. yeah that no you got to learn to. physical curl your way to freaking. complete exactly and so it's learning. we're bioc psychosocial spiritual let's. we got to learn to meet all those needs. and get healthy in all those areas. that's the bottom line it seems like a. lot of work sometimes it's not a magic. solution it's hard when people's lives.

get busy too I can't imagine once people. have a family and stuff and a father or. mother has to leave away from their. family to go get Wellness so if I can. ask you and this kind of almost I don't. know if it's off the Record but you can. decide what to do with it so we've we've. got a UFC fighter that's approached us. about taking our program M um Boston Red. Sox Detroit Lion Detroit Tigers some. movie. stars but they've all. said we kind of got celebrity status and.

we're not can't fit a program into our. schedules plus we're not sure we want to. be in a group we're going to get adored. kind of um not sure we're going to be. able to share freely so we've been. giving thought to kind of what do we do. to kind of people in your status of life. that have some popularity that would. make things uncomfortable for them or. other people maybe yeah or make the the. pattern might feel different yeah and. then has maybe.

some restraints around their schedules. that doesn't allow them to commit for. like a 15 we program um so we've been. giving some thought to just some things. we can do that might enable celebrity. type people to take advantage of the. program and still have some connection. with people um but maybe not the full. connection daily any thoughts on I would.

love to help you think navigate it some. okay or get a because that's where we're. at it's so funny to say this man I'm. just talking with a buddy of mine uh we. just had a group last week um trying to. maybe yeah build something you know or. just not built something but yeah I. would love to you know think about it or. I wish there were more meetings that. some people could go to you know. and what that looks like um yeah I'd. love to talk with you about uh how I can. be a part of stuff or if there's um some.

meetings that I can join or you know I. have friends that would like to be in. meetings I think sometimes they're maybe. afraid to be in some meetings or. whatever but I'd love to talk about that. with a little bit more because I would. value that yeah 10 100% because we just. see like we're getting more and more. requests from celebrities but it's a. special Niche with special needs and. it's like we almost got to custom make. something here that's going to need a. lot of wisdom to do it but it's doable.

well you know it's so funny I thought. that if I could get everybody in the. world to see me right that would fix. everything that it. would that it would like make up for. whatever you know I didn't know that's. what I needed but it was like that's. what I I wanted so much and I was like. oh if my mother sees it everybody thinks. I'm okay right she'll have to then see. oh he's okay you know for years I could. I think one of the reasons I was having. trouble I didn't even realize is getting.

in a relationship I was still in this. relationship with my mother yes exactly. I was still literally I felt like. somebody standing on a. dock waiting for. uh their mom to come yeah and validate. them yeah. yeah you know just literally just to. hold just to I hear that all the time. really that's unbelievable yeah you know. and I don't mean it as a shade to my. mother my mother did a have a lot of. really cool memories you know she there.

was just that part she didn't even she. didn't even know it existed if you'd. have showed it to her as a color she. wouldn't be able to see it yep you know. um. yep what what types of things can people. notice in their life where they maybe. have had complex trauma that they didn't. realize it's affecting this place is. there any way we can put put some light. on that or is that too broad of a. question well I think again for many. people. workaholic people pleasing never able to.

say no perfectionism nothing's ever good. enough control freak issues where. they're have to control everybody and. everything or image always got to look. good um and try to impress people all. the time or just lots of relationship. problems riffs um damage being done. now mental health issues that damn. that's everybody Tim yeah well exactly.

and so what we've we started with the. react and then the lift course but not. everybody can do that so what we've. started now is some self-study courses. that people can take on their own time. and then they have an optional group. they can go to once a month just to kind. of share and talk about stuff oh cool. have a one-on-one coach if they want to. process through stuff so that's now. available um and then we are doing some. workshops on narcissism inner child.

stuff internal family system stuff shame. um issues so we're trying to do more. available stuff to busy. people so can I tell you one of my. favorite stories to tell people. there's actually a video now on YouTube. where a guy's actually built a bike that.

operates backwards mhm so when you think. of a bike you learn to ride a bike at. four five six years old and at first you. got to concentrate a lot to get your. balance to turn the steering wheel oh. yeah remember how loose the remember how. crazy the begin is you're falling and. but you keep working and concentrating. oh yeah you fall somebody's dad calls. you a gy every time you're like and then. pretty soon you can be talking to your. buddies and yeah and you're not even.

thinking about riding but you're it's so. it moves from your conscious brain to a. subconscious program that just operates. okay and now you could go without riding. a bike for 30 years and jump back on and. you'd ride it without even thinking you. just pick it right back up so this guy. built a bike where if you turn the. handlebars to the left you actually the. wheel goes to the right oh my gosh why. did he do it was he angry at somebody. you wanted to test how quickly could you.

relearn to ride a bike wow you know how. long it. took six months to a year. [Music]. no yeah so you're just saying to relearn. things it takes a. while it takes some time exactly. especially when you learn it so young. and if somebody's just going to therapy. right what can they go talk to how can. they start a conversation with their. therapist that could help them create. more Ambiance around maybe some of the.

stuff that may have happened and how it. affects them now yeah so a lot of people. go to therapy now because of a crisis in. the present M they need to be able to. understand that crisis is probably a. symptom of something from the. past and so a lot of therapists just try. to give you practical tools well try. this try this try this and they're just. P putting back Band-Aids. on cuts on on the. symptoms if you can get your therapist. to go like why am I doing this what.

what's underneath that's driving that. response and begin to look at shame. begin to look at Fe fears that are there. fears of Abandonment fears of intimacy. fears of rejection fears of. failure all of those can start getting. down to the core root issues that come. out of trauma. H yeah sometimes I can ask myself like. what's going on you know and try to. answer myself you know like try to.

legitimately answer myself cuz my first. thought would be like oh nothing nothing. but then it's like. well sometimes a feel I get a feeling. first and that's a clue yes a feeling is. just like. a yeah it's just like a little bit of a. like you saw something but you don't. really. know sometimes if if I feel something I. try to feel it more like how can I feel. this more so there's a. new term called compassionate.

inquiry and so it's when you get a. feeling in the past we get that critic. you stupid why are you feeling that way. we judge ourself and get really hard on. ourself oh yeah and so it says instead. of condemning yourself be curious. compassionate so you be kind to yourself. and then go what's going on here and. inquire um and you change the whole way. you respond to feelings and.

triggers which which is huge for a lot. of people and you give yourself some. Grace too exactly that's the compassion. that's it's like dude give yourself some. Grace man quit beating yourself up give. your. just yeah give yourself some Grace. that you would. just it's the least you can do right now. you can do. it's you know exactly just give yourself.

a little bit of Grace that's one thing. I've had a tough time with um and I. would say probably for most of the. people we work with self-compassion is. the hardest thing for them to learn why. is it hard for us to have. self-compassion cuz shame. says I deserve to beat myself up because. I'm a loser. and often complex trauma parenting is. the way to motivate a child to want to. change and be better is to beat them up. and put them down and punish them and.

then they're going to want to prove you. wrong or but that doesn't work in the. long run eventually you start to believe. you are a loser and you just give up um. but you still got all those things in. your head that you keep putting yourself. down and then for many people there's. that Justice piece that if I commit the. crime I got to do the time um and so I. did something bad I'm a bad person I got. to punish myself before I can let myself. out of prison H and so like there's that.

sense of justice that has to be served. in their mind um and even and so if. they're too hard on themselves and. they're going to be punished themselves. for crimes that aren't even real and. you're in prison forever because you. never let yourself hope yeah gosh the. crazy thing is I can't even remember. some of the ridiculous patterns I used. to have in out of me I used to have this. belief that I had. to I know it sounds silly but sometimes. it feels like you can swallow on. different sides of your mouth I had this.

thing I had to swallow constantly back. and forth or the world would be even and. it was this constant thing all the time. it was like this constant thing. um man sometimes when I think back on. some of the crazy stuff or little. patterns I think a lot of people have. them some of it's just being so to me. what what you're. you've really shown me this the a is. this it shows the child's amazing. ability to think there's got to be.

another way to fix this another option. available if I try this if I try this if. I try to I'll swallow different El and. you start to believe that if I only do. something a little bit different that'll. resolve and fix the problem but pretty. soon you're rocking in your bed you're. peeing around your bed you're sleeping. with your back to the wall you're. like you feel you got to control every. little element of. life but it's not fixing anything but. you're still doing.

it yeah but it's the brain just. [Applause]. keeps giving one more oh let's try this. let's try this then let's try this then. and you can keep going till you're in. your 30s but eventually you're wearing. yourself out and you go it's hopeless. it's not fixing it man it took me so. long to see that I'll just am it's like. I yeah it's the hard to see when you're. it's hard to see the water when you're. the fish you know whatever they say or. hard to drink the water or something if. you're at the aquarium or whatever but.

um yeah that was God man I wish I had. gotten a little bit of perspective. earlier but yeah that's one of the. toughest Parts man is just seeing that. thing recognizing that that pattern I. used to think if I was a girl oh maybe. if I was a girl my mother would love me. you know um or that I would be loved I. don't want to always just pin the tail. on my mother uh yeah just some of that. stuff man and it's not W was me stuff. it's just fascinating what a child can. they'll create so many realities but and.

with you you're always thinking if I. just set the bar a bit higher yeah a bit. higher a bit higher then that'll that'll. surely fix everything oh if I could get. the whole world to see me I didn't even. know that if I could get then i' my. mother would of course would have to see. me then exactly how could she miss me. exactly you know if I could just. yeah and those are just operating. systems I didn't and they were running. my life I didn't even know it we still. have clients in their 50s and. 60s so they graduate let's say from our.

program and uh they go running and. telling their mom I graduated you want. to see my. diploma wow still looking for Mom's. validation to Mom to actually see them. for the first time in their life and. they get their hopes up and Mom doesn't. she just finds something to criticize or. or it's just still the same thing. or she cares but it's not the way you. need it exactly and so they just get. hurt but they're in their 50s and 60s. still chasing M's validation it's like.

yeah and I was hyper sensitive as a. child too so I think it was that was. another thing like I have to I have to. always say that I was hyper sensitive. not still in but it was like yeah so it. was and those are the ones that the. neglect affects the most he a sensitive. child that's what I think it was for me. probably you know and my and my uh. siblings. um yeah even with. relationships I mean I went through this. therapy recently and I I was like if I.

can't be in a relationship because I'm. still in I'm there's a huge part of me. still waiting for this [ __ ]. relationship the first one I was ever. supposed to be in when my first. girlfriend broke up with me I said you. can't break up this came out of my mouth. Tim I said you can't break up with me. you're my mother wow because I just did. was the first place i' attached like any. yep care you know. um damn I sound like a crazy person do I. no that's but see that's so normal you. still are chasing that primary.

connection yeah and uh you change the. face to a young woman that's not your. mother but you're still chasing your. mother's well she was the first girl. that I really love so I think it just. yeah just awoke all that stuff yeah and. you're when you love and you can then. you're like oh this is it was yeah this. was supposed to happen a long time ago. but now it's happening and this there's. probably a part of you that's like this. was supposed to be our mother I don't. know I don't know I can get in all that. stuff and and also some of it is.

like the more I look at all that old. stuff it's like trying to find a snake. that [ __ ] or whatever it's like you. know it's like try it's like a snake bit. you and goes off into the and then you. chase it for years right you want to ask. it why it bit you you know it's like if. it's going to fix it I just got to heal. it exact what about forgiveness how do. what do what's your what do your what do. you think about how do you help people. with that Tim how does react help people. with um I think it's been a it's such an. important concept but it's been a badly.

mistaught. concept so a lot of people have seen the. value of forgiveness and so all of a. sudden when a person comes in a recovery. you need to forgive your mom you need to. forgive I go whoa whoa whoa. whoa you can't forgive until you've. actually validated how badly they've. hurt you until you've got honest about. it until you've grieved it until you've. been able to really make space for all. the emotions around that then you're. going to get to the point where your.

lyic brain is sorting out all of those. painful emotions and it can come to a. point where it can let them go. so forgiveness isn't something you're. forcing it's something that's going to. naturally happen as you allow yourself. to process through all the pain and. anger connected to the wound. man it's wild I had this thought. that there's like this weird thing where. it's. like I there's part of it's afraid to.

not be angry at my mother cuz it's the. only feeling I've ever had towards her. yes and if I let go of that very normal. then I won't have any connection to her. exactly as a child exactly as an adult I. can see my mother differently you know. and um you know I love my mother and I. want her to be Happ happy I don't want. her to have to work anymore she doesn't. want to you know I wish she can I ask. can I ask you a question so a lot of. kids like you that had a mother that.

just couldn't connect. emotionally often the only time that. mother would connect emotionally is when. they were bad or when they got angry. then Mom would jump in hey stop that. stop that and they go little bit of. connection is better than no connection. ah interesting so I'll be bad. more or angry I would find other people. I found other people's moms the second. like circuits dude I keep going I went. to my friend Williams house like 20. times weekend his mom's like he's not.

here I told you every time don't care. and I like you're here I just keep. knocking just to see her look at me for. a second you know y just wild man the. things that you'll ways little ways. you'll survive little things you'll do. yeah it's fascinating the longing for. love and nurture yes it's a lot of it's. fascinating you know getting to be human. yep it's quite a ride um Tim people can. check you out online you have so many. great so many great digestible videos um.

on. YouTube so many just well just really. awesome stuff man thank you yeah thank. you so much um my brother saw you and. he's like God this guy is great and he. introduced me to you oh good and um it's. been cool cuz you're just saying things. in a way that I can just I could hear. them and I that's the hardest part it's. so hard for us to hear things. why partly for a lot of people because.

of Shame is I don't want to stop and. look honestly at myself because it might. be too painful and overwhelming and I. don't want to go there so there's so. many defense layers that you have to get. by before you're even open to go. there and so a lot of my years of kind. of learning how to teach this stuff is. how do I get by that defense layer how. do I get by that defense layer how do I. make people feel safe to challenge that.

area of their life and not feel that. they're bad because they're doing that. so man it is quite a Rubik's Cube we're. complex huh oh I know what I'd be. fascinated by is just kind of what. response you get yeah because I think. that's going to tell us a lot about what. we could do different differently. whether we need to add some other. podcasts with more focused information. specific stuff yeah yeah I'm curious. about that too I think because I know.

you have so many like you know there was. a like shame we touched on which I think. was important I know that there's a ton. of stuff about guilt um you just there's. so many little univers dependency oh God. I can't even. boundaries um codependency for. sure for soon you get into the. relationship stuff then it's just. like yeah everybody's ears per up but I. think that we TR I think we gave a I.

think we touched on some a good. understanding though right of complex. trauma people can understand maybe that. they could have some things that they. didn't realize but also that you don't. have to be a victim not everybody has to. have complex trauma yeah um you could. have had just simple trauma that was. just one thing or some instances but you. could have also had good parenting that. was there to help you process it or. somebody even if it wasn't a parent that. could also be there as a fixture to help. you process exactly um Y and I think. your bits of your personal story just.

filled in a lot of that for people um. and I think to me the big picture is. everybody needs to. learn not necessarily all the trauma. stuff but what does it mean to be. healthy that's what a child is supposed. to be learning as they're growing up. yeah and even if if you had pretty good. parents we all still could learn more. about fine tuning being healthy and. that's really what I try to do a lot of.

is yes toine the trauma in great detail. and the ramifications but really to. Define what does healthy look like yeah. yeah and to if you never thought about. this to maybe say oh some of that that. could be something I should look at more. I heard something that made me think or. feel something that that is good Clues. yeah a lot of time I couldn't get a clue. until I it would have to be a very. strong feeling and then that would be a. clue um but yeah I think uh yeah it's.

important man it's important for people. and yeah it's important you know it's. not important to sit there and dwell and. swim in the [ __ ] like I'm a uh otter you. know I have to remember that but it's. important to sit on the side of the bank. and look at the water I think yep you. know and see what's caus some of the. ripples y you know and uh see where. there's some waves and see where things. are clear and nice yeah um so cool man.

it's been a wonderful experience thank. you yeah Tim thanks bro I appreciate it. dude we gotta I gotta get back up there. to. Windsor you've been there yeah my tour. manager at Caesars or is from there yeah. over there at Caesars it was pretty good. man we had a nice time over there and um. and then did you go across to Detroit as. well nope oh just did the Windsor yeah. we did Windor and then we went over. there to L uh Lake of the no uh niagar. Niagara yeah Nar Falls and then um we.

went somewhere else too I can't remember. where it was Toronto's right up in there. we had a great time huh good beautiful. over there yeah Canada's Great yeah. we're grateful that you are part of. North America I want to let you know. that I'm grateful too there you go all. right Tim Fletcher thank you so much. brother thank you all right cheers. brother now I'm just floating on the. breeze and I feel I'm falling like these. leaves I must be.

Cornerstone oh but when I reach that. ground I'll share this piece of my life. found I can feel it in my bones. [Music].