Tony Mandarich | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #311

today's episode is brought to you by. gray block pizza. gray block pizza 1811 pico boulevard in. los angeles. if you want pizza then you want gray. block. get that hitter baby today's episode is. also brought to you by magic. mind flow state now comes in a bottle. and flow state that's not a woman that. you met somewhere maybe outside of. detroit. flow state now comes in a bottle matcha. not tropics nautropics adaptogens.

and a hint of honey it's the ultimate. nemesis to procrastination. magic mind get magic mind. use promo code theo to get 10 off magic. mind. dot co today's guest was the. second overall draft pick in the 1989. nfl draft and maybe the largest. offensive lineman that people had ever. seen he was on the cover of. sports illustrated he's lived many lives. to say the least we're going to hear a.

lot about that and he's transformed his. own life. uh through the power of recovery he is. a retired athlete um. motivational speaker and photographer mr. tony. [Music]. manderick. i'll sit and tell you my stories.

[Applause]. [Music]. thanks for coming man my friend morgan. murphy do you know who she is she's a. right she is a writer. she messaged you i think she never met. her one time right that's what she said. but she messed me yesterday she's like. oh i'm so.

excited for this i'm such a big tony fan. she's a huge fan of his uh yes she's a. comedian yeah and a writer and she's. like i'm such a huge fan of his. photography right. yeah she um i want to say about six. months ago messaged me. or had commented on dm on instagram. uh and then i kind of looked her up. because i saw she had that. seal like that she was who she was right. so i was like well i just wanna. because i didn't know who she was so i. checked it out i was i was like. oh you know she's a comedian and she's. been to i think tempi improv and all. that stuff.

yeah yeah she's a yeah she goes over to. the comedy store a lot of our fri. i know are from and then she's written. on a bunch of shows but it was just. you know it's just interesting the. people that will reach out when you have. a certain guest coming right right. and it always uh it always surprises me. yeah i told her if she's ever through. phoenix yeah that's what she said she's. like she just hasn't been i guess that's. what she said she's like tell him i i. plan on. on seeing him at some point cool um yeah. she's definitely worth i mean. a lot of people are worthwhile yeah she. seems very straight up very. authentic she's cool chick yeah and or.

cool whatever she is man i mean. she's a woman but yeah cool person um. t-q-y-n yeah i don't know what letters. to say these things my friend juggles. now and he said he feels left out so. i want to call him the alphabet yeah i. know that's not referring to her i'm. just talking about. oh in general it's hard can you imagine. going to get your license now. male female hispanic ghost great yeah. like i'm the alphabet somebody yeah. but the thing is it's just going to add. up until it's just everything and then.

it's going to come full circle it's so. stupid. it's some things are getting absolutely. ridiculous man um. you live where do you live these days. i'm in scottsdale oh nice how do you. like it over there i love it i've been. there since 04. oh 405. and what spurned the move over. to there. you know it was kind of. i had a golf course in canada where i. grew up and. it was family owned down half of it and. i was just tired of. you know how family businesses can go. awesome or they can go.

hmm not so good so. it didn't go like really bad but it. wasn't like i wasn't. i guess receiving what i was promised i. was gonna receive. okay so i was kind of like instead of. making a big deal about it i'm just. going to. get out of the business and instead of. giving them a two-week notice i give. them a nine month notice. okay just so you know they could figure. things out and stuff oh yeah. like a baby yeah right i mean it's. plenty of time to figure stuff out. yeah i'm not just gonna leave them. hanging so.

i like literally sat at the kitchen. table and i was like if i could do. anything anywhere where would it be. and it was photography and it would be. in the southwest although i didn't know. if i was going to go nevada cali. uh utah or arizona. you know i think arizona was the pole. for some reason probably because of. sedona. yes you don't know i mean i'm only an. hour and a half from so lot of seances. up there a lot of women a lot of a lot. of um crystals yeah. yeah a lot of crystals oh it's it's not.

crazy it's an honor to drive by a. woman's house and see her charging her. crystals. out in the in the yard right right on. the full moon right she's putting all. she's wheel bearing them out there to. charge up yeah yeah. yeah it's um it's natural it's probably. my favorite place on the planet. but the crystal stuff it doesn't even. freak me out it just makes me kind of. go whatever yeah then i'll drop out of. this right. i'm like cool right whatever gets you. through it. exactly what it really is because what. works for me may not work for them yeah. right.

it's kind of amazing how there's so many. different like um. whether it be relics or uh. deities and there's so many different. avenues for people to find. uh comfort yeah yeah i mean. yeah there is there's and then sometimes. they're like. i do i used to do a lot more than i do. now but i used to do a lot of. ritualistic things. maybe i shouldn't say ritualistic but. just stuff like. i would always tie my left shoe before i. would tie my right i would always put my.

left shoe on before my right shoe like. before a game. or just in day-to-day living. and then i forced myself to break that i. just said. i was like i'm going to live wild on the. edge i'm going to put my right shoe on. first oh yeah. and i was like oh nothing happened today. that was bad so i'm good. you know i'm going to tell you i'm going. to put this right in my neck. so you uh you started. you so was it hard to leave canada when. you left canada was that tough.

when i left the golf course when i went. left for school. when you left uh the golf course when. you yeah it was it was. canada is awesome it's freaking awesome. i love it i mean. you know i i you know i grew up in. canada until i was 15. and then my senior high school went to. ohio for the sole purpose of. besides the obvious of graduating from. high school but to get exposure to get a. scholarship. to major american college because it was. easier by if you were in the states. yeah and then it just so happened at the.

high school i ended up going to. was in the same town as where my brother. was going to college at kent state. so he would become my legal guardian so. like. really go to court and everything my. parents had to sign off wow. and they got you a home down there no i. actually ended up living with my brother. wow on an off-campus apartment and were. you guys was that like kind of party. central are you are were you so focused. on that time at. on football i was very focused but there. was yeah there was some partying like i. mean it was. it was the first time i ever got drunk. was believe it or not a senior high. school.

yeah i mean a lot of people will. surprise a lot of people right. first time i ever dabbled in. weed was for my senior high school yeah. so yeah so for some that would almost. seem a little bit late in the yeah yeah. yeah um what what is your height and. weight now what are you at now. i'm 6'5 probably about 265 270. and what were you at when you were at. your maximum beefed out you know. butcher box the heaviest i ever got. or the biggest i ever got was like well.

i was six six i was an inch taller. but the compression gravity catches oh. yeah um. gotta pull you back down right right. right maybe four foot. it's like one of those i'm glad i didn't. get what i really deserved right. oh totally man but um i was like 333. was the big like off-season biggest i. got and it was like just. slinging weight around heavy but playing. weight that was not a good playing. weight. it wasn't a good playing weight that's.

you right there damn bro. my god if i was a shark and i saw you. off surfing i'd bite you bro. no homo bro you know or yes homo i don't. know what they're doing now. what is it like carrying um what was it. like carrying that much body weight. around. did was there anything that started to. be different i've used steroids in. myself growing up you know. so i have some experience of what it's. like to have a body that's different. than like. what did you take i took uh testosterone.

and then some other things i don't even. know what they were so but you got like. did you gain like what 20 pounds 30. pounds yeah probably gain 30 pounds yeah. so that's a significant amount of weight. right of muscle. mostly muscle so you know that feeling. right. well here's the thing in the off season. i'd be like 333. and just to put muscle on put size on it. was almost like i don't want to say it. was like bodybuilding where they have an. off season and they're putting on weight. so they can cut down for a show but i. would try to do all my building and my.

bulking in the off season. might give them all my strength and then. as the season got closer. and i mean like 16 weeks out we'd start. running. so you know as you're running it make. sure it leans your muscles out. and it's harder to keep like that big. bulk. yeah but a good like playing weight for. me was like 3. 10. like at 3 10. like i can honestly tell you at 3 10 i. felt like i was 150. wow i could like run like it was i was. like. i could stop on a dime and like that's.

what i felt like yeah. and you know when you set up a scale on. your 310. but i think it's like everything was so. strong. like you know your core strong just from. even all that weight. i mean you have to work your core yeah. at that point if you're doing all the. power cleans you've been down to pick up. 100-pound dumbbells i mean you're. on a late date right 100-pound dumbbell. 150s 160s. totally right. [ __ ] meat here. oh yeah okay come someone jacked up i'm.

like i never walked like that. you're at home you're curling your. grandparents yeah you're just like. right it's getting crazy right i'm like. you guys need to eat them do you. remember the first time that you when. did you first start is it okay to talk. about this kind of stuff okay cool. thank you if you're comfortable with it. i am man i am yeah. our audience a lot of our audiences i. mean i don't know what i mean a lot of. them i think need help and. uh but but we all do and that's kind of. where. our audience all kind of meets each. other is in that space where it's like.

we're all imperfect creatures um do you. remember. uh so the first time you ever used. steroids. take me through a little bit i was a. senior my senior year high school in. kent. but it was i should say but that sounds. like i'm making. an ex excuse for it it was in. april may so it was like the last two. years. or last two months of my senior year so. i had already signed a scholarship with. michigan state so football was over you. had already been doing. really well at football yeah and you.

know well enough. see i was lucky because our team our. high school team had like five. like like tier one um like marie cruz. right i mean they like you know ohio. like all these big schools were coming. to watch those guys. and the whole plan was let's keep our. fingers crossed and they noticed me. and they did and they did so so the move. down to america the move to. ohio the living with your brother all. that was really i mean you guys must. have been living. a little bit like wow this is all. panning out well yeah. yeah cause yeah yeah well then you put a.

plan together right right so i mean we. literally put the plant on paper this is. the plan. and let's not continue the plan until. this gets executed because if it doesn't. work. then there's no reason for the other. plan right because i don't want to make. a plan b. right yeah as soon as you make plan b. you've screwed yourself on plan a it's. like oh i always got this to fall back. on. oh plan b has a lot of pizza in it right. i always know and the weed apparently. you know yeah and we. too nick gets all excited when we say it. but. that's only because but yeah but yeah.

the sole purpose of the ohio move. was literally to get a scholarship. so you got that so as so right at the. end of high school so you start that's. when you get. that's when i started the steroids and. the catalyst was and i. told you about it my brother he did yeah. he was into it. yeah cool and he's you know my hero and. and my mentor my. little you know he passed away when he. was 31 from cancer oh. i was like 93 1993 february 8th to 93. and uh but you know i'm sorry to hear.

that man that's heartbreaking yeah it. was. you know and you know what's like the. toughest part about that is i was like. so in the bag messed up with alcohol and. painkillers at that time. you know it's like i wasn't there sober. right right yeah you weren't that that. wasn't pretty stuff that you didn't like. yeah. but you know it's like there's tools to. deal with that stuff you know and stuff. and i've dealt with it and i'm i'm good. with it. you know and but the what was he like. what was he like your brother started. interrupting he was. he was the best yeah yeah he was the bad.

he he taught me so many things like. he taught me so many things that and and. did so many things that today would be. considered. abuse you know um. he made me i remember one time it was. like a friday i already got scholarship. and everything and. it was a friday we were working out and. so i'm a high school senior he's a. college senior and he's working out with. his. lifting partner who's a bodybuilder and. this is in kent and. ken at that time was a really small town.

and um. i was just gassed i was tired and i was. like you know what i. i'm just gonna chill today i'm not gonna. work out i'm but i gotta go to the gym. because he's my ride home oh yeah and. the gym from the high school was like. walking distance and. the walk back to the apartments was like. two three miles hey. i mean it's not like it's not walking. does it but a huge snowstorm. oh yeah and and i was like i'm just not. gonna lift and. and i could see them both like shocked.

and because i loved lifting but i was. tired and. they freaking ripped into me like it was. i mean it was life-changing it was. life-changing because. they were like tony robbins yeah no they. no. that would have been nice tony montana. yeah okay. yeah exactly okay yeah yeah yeah say. yeah say hello. um they uh.

you know john smith who's. at michigan state right now in his third. year is gonna. you know not take it easy on you when. you get there you're gonna knock your. you know what off when you get there. he's like they're like. because i think that they thought and. and maybe i did or maybe it. seemed that way that i thought that okay. well i got the scholarship already i'm. good you know i can chill now. and i never really was like that. but they really were like you know. staying on top of you.

yeah which is good right i think where. today it'd be like oh you're pushing. somebody too much it's like no look it's. support. i looked at it like they were supporting. me i had to walk home. in that blizzard oh man i'm so glad it. happened. oh i run a 4-1 and a blizzard. with the wind behind me i run about a 4. 15. or 450 or 4. i run about a four one. twenty. four two five two eight two four well. you got some momentum going so you're. probably in the seven second mark. dude i run a job okay i'll be honest.

with you. i run as fast as i have to did you think. do you think like looking back on it. that you did like. um because i get curious as to like i. remember i was working at a restaurant. they had a bus boy there. that was an older guy and he was doing. steroids in it. uh and so we would go to the gym. together and next thing you know it was. just like something we did. right you know and um and he was older. than me this guy so sometimes i went. looking back i wonder would i have done. it if it wasn't like an. older person if it had just been a buddy.

i don't think too much on it but. sometimes i just like to look back at. like. you know where was like the influence. coming from or was the influence coming. from inside of me like wanting. something um different or wanting a. different experience you know wanting. to like put anything into myself right. to replace something inside of me that. was missing. right yeah which is the story of our. lives totally. right later in life releasing something. that's already inside of me yeah but i'm. looking for external answers. or external things to fill that void but.

really the answer is inside of me. right yeah but it doesn't feel like it. is because it feels like there's nothing. inside. once you get sober clear-headed and kind. of can start reflecting on life as you. get older. yeah you that's when at least for me my. experiences i start to see. i was like the dog chasing my tail yeah. looking for this looking for that and. it's like the whole answer is like with. me the whole time. yeah it's just like stop take a look. slow down you know breathe. yeah but the catalyst for the actual. steroid taking was i couldn't. bench 315 because that's three big.

plates on each side. oh yeah but i could do 295 for like five. reps but i couldn't do 315 for one so it. was like a psychological block and i got. on like some really light steroids and. like within two weeks i was like at. three. benching like 325. damn so i was like oh. they definitely work. well we got on some vietnamese [ __ ] one. time i don't even think it helped me. lift they helped me cook. it definitely helped me like i could run. dude i'm not even joking. i could cook over a fire suddenly in my. yard but i could not. [ __ ] do it yeah because we got some.

gutter steroids that came through man. like we got like. bottom of the barrel was it like top of. it taped clothes. yeah that's like a wrist it wasn't even. sealed and stuff yeah. i remember one time we all went to. mexico on a class trip so we came back. literally people would buy starts and. then put them in shampoo bottles just. kind of rinse them out a little. no and just pour it in there so then for. like. people are just pulling up at this. dude's house and just syringing out of. this. you know head and shoulders unreal you. know and that's it i mean it got you.

it got you both of those pharmaceuticals. [Laughter]. holy smokes but yeah we had some of the. cleanest muscles in town right we'll say. that. well you're willing to go to any lengths. right oh totally that's the question. that. it's like i really was yeah and so was i. and i am today too. in in certain areas of my life but it. was like. i'm gonna do whatever i got to do to be. the best player i can be within re like. within the rules. right but steroids were regular rules.

so those were within the rules at the. time no no they were breaking the rules. they were yeah they were so and so there. was a day where i had to make a. conscious decision. it's like i'm not going to kill i'm not. going to sit here and lie to myself. because i wasn't like hooked on. painkillers i wasn't drinking. alcoholically or nothing like that at. that time. i was like is it worth it. and it was and it i it was yeah i mean. looking back. at everything and and you know what it. was worth it and the least amount of. that worth it is monetary.

even though it made me it helped me make. millions of dollars right. the least the greatest worth and value. in that are the lessons learned. in life from taking them but. at the time you didn't know that though. right but i had to make a conscious. decision on. will i ever look back and regret and. saying like. what could i have been ah you know what. i'm saying so i was like i'm gonna go to. any lengths plus. and this is not to like i'm not like. blaming anybody but the. atmosphere was like you know the end of.

the 70s that happened so this was. 1983-84. so who won four championships in the nfl. in the 70s steelers. right i thought it was maze backers. steve no they were the ones that's right. i remember they won two in a row. or something bradshaw yeah and all those. guys and they're. like you know gary olshansky was out. there i don't know him but. but webster and uh steve course and all. these old linemen. they were i mean all jacked up right and. it was obvious. yeah and i was like in my head and and.

my brother. kind of felt the same way was like the. only road to the nfl. is through steroids or at least it's a. spoke in the wheel. yeah and especially i think as a white. guy you got to get. you got to get on something you know for. what. i mean just no just oh i think no you. just got to get. if i'm a white guy i'm getting on. steroids you to play anything listen can. you imagine if you. if someone had a drug for that yeah oh. man um how rich they'd be. oh yeah well hell we sell them half of.

our ads. it was like when i say this. i say it literally like um i. try not to be in too much gray area. because that's kind of how i lived my. life. and as the older i got i started to. realize. i thought i had to be in gray area. somewhat but it's not it's just being. more tolerant and flexible of the way. other people are. but i i can make it crystal clear on.

what. i'm about and what i believe in and what. i don't believe in. um and then all the variables in between. so i knew i was taking them i knew it. was wrong i knew i was breaking the. rules whether i was taking pills and. injections or both. right um but i was like i'm gonna. you know their testing was so mediocre. yeah. and you know i think that. i became kind of like a red flag.

to the ncaa because um. like we did them well right i should say. i did them. i did them the correct way to get the. most out of them and. i didn't like i held nothing back you. know in the training. and that was whether it was running. whether it was lifting doesn't. it oh i see you didn't try to mask that. you almost didn't even mask it you were. doing them you just hit it from the test. right and and i did like i didn't go. around telling people and i always. whenever the question was asked um do. you do steroids by the media.

my answer would always be like i've. never tested positive for steroids. right so it's like you got to be pretty. dumb not to read between the lines. exactly yeah there's only two lines. right. [Laughter]. um if you had a comma there's only one. that's really true man there's uh. i remember one thing that got me i. remember about. and i've just we haven't had anybody in. here i don't think that's ev that has. ever done steroids that i knew of so.

it's like. it's just for me it's interesting to. talk about because we talk about it on. the podcast sometimes over the years and. um so i remember being in class one day. and some kid was a new kid in class and. he thought i was going through the. the aisles picking up people's papers or. something for the teacher. and he thought i was the teacher's. husband. and i think because i've been doing. stuff i was suddenly looking for your. job. yeah just look stronger right and you. know. and i just the you know at that time the. thought that somebody.

would you know i would be married to. somebody that knew first of all they. even knew mathematics as well as this. lady did. you know like it almost just was. flattering you know like holy. [ __ ] you think that's my wife that's. pretty much the older woman right she. drove here. you know what i'm saying like this is a. real lady over there um. but i just remember that one moment. that's like. i don't know i just felt like people saw. me i just felt. more confident i felt stronger my i just. and right right then man those feelings. were feelings that i never had.

are they good or what oh right bro they. were so good right. they were so good and then uh but you. also did the work. you also worked out right oh i was we. worked out all right and i. you know dieted properly and i you know. you would get on milk thistle and all. these yeah. like things you would hear about to kind. of take care of yourself um. but it was definitely like it was. interesting how i went from if you. asked me two weeks before would you ever. do steroids i just said no way right. but then suddenly i was over a line. right. and for me in a lot of my areas of life.

that that. became something sometimes i really. don't want to look at the truth that. there's a lot of lines that i've crossed. in my life. that i probably wish i hadn't you know i. remember thinking. oh i'll never hook up with a married. woman you know and then cross that line. just like right. things that like like where you're. saying like certain kind of boundaries. or where where who you. are and things that you do will and. won't do right i had those things. but i always went past them and then. would live and still probably live with. a ton of the shame from a lot of it.

right and that's you know and. a lot of the stuff you described i mean. you're it's like were you following me. around. right right it's like yeah you know like. everybody's. done stuff that where they've kind of. set their boundaries or. these are my code of ethics like my. personal code of ethics. and then you know you cross them and and. you know i think when you're younger. at least the majority of the people i've. encountered as far as friends and stuff. the younger you are the more kind of. like yeah.

screw it it's okay the older you get the. the road narrows. and stuff that you could do a couple. years ago or five years ago that were. maybe not the most ethically. you know right be a man stand up and be. a man like kind of thing because. standing up and being a man today is not. about. how big your muscles are yeah it's about. doing the right thing. it's changed a lot it's changed a lot. and and i think. i i think it's changed for the better. even though we're in a. present circumstance of debacle it's.

been such a great year. to watch people and how messed up people. are and and. and to be like man i just want some. toilet paper. and it's not even a [ __ ] disease right. right and it's like why is everybody. hoarding toilet paper. and i was like like six rolls will last. me six weeks seven years. oh good yeah right it's like but there's. not on the other there was one march. april it was like nothing to get. yeah it just it just it was interesting. to watch people. panic because.

you know you're sober i'm sober so we. know. like in a way like i feel lucky that i. had a lot of hardship because. and the reason i feel lucky is because. i've put perspective on it. and i've also the tragedy would be if i. didn't change it. if i kept living that way well that'd be. the tragedy right. and but it gave me perspective to change. it so my. four years in green bay were a train. wreck and i was.

there wasn't you know a single day in. green bay where i was like. stone cold sober it was either some kind. of a pill in me. there was anything that would alter me. from the chin up right. in my brain where i was drinking or i. was doing something now that doesn't. mean i was sloppy down falling down. drunk drinking but i would need a drink. to stop the shakes. and then go to practice wow right what's. kind of hard to pass block. in the nfl period let alone when you're. half in the bag. yeah so you know looking back at a lot. of those things. and being going through all that pain.

like i got. into so much emotional pain i was sick. and tired of my own [ __ ]. oh man that's to that's that's right. it's exactly where i'm at right now. and that's out of myself that's when we. change sick of yourself right like. literally people like what are you on. and you're like i'm on myself right. and it's [ __ ] killing me like it. people don't understand sometimes and. that's a lot of what i think addiction. is for me i don't even know sometimes if. i've ever had a lot of chemical. dependency. as much as i.

the way i'm feeling affects me so. heavily. right like it's a drug like to the point. where it's like and then i become. addicted to it. and at the same time suffering from it. yeah and i think people sometimes can't. understand some of that like. what it's like to feel that way right. and it's and they're like you're a wimp. or you're this. man it's like you think i don't want you. think i want to. feel this way every day when i wake up. you think i want to be angry or be. miserable or you know like no this is.

something that's happening. to me right it's hard to handle right. yeah and and. you know i mean listen you're it's like. again are you following me around. because you're telling me my story right. it's exactly how i feel and. i don't feel it i still get definitely. times like that. but less and less yeah and and it'll. change. i've been you know over 25 years now. almost 26 years sober. and wow but you know what like the first. three years were. like just like you could have cut me off. you could have done.

robbed me i would have been like here. you go cool have a good day i was so. happy not to be miserable. yeah right oh the beginning of sobriety. when you're like. when you see when something happens. there's a perspective switch in the way. you see in the world in the way that it. really is. god bro yeah it went it literally like. you talked about the four or five days. or two weeks before you took steroids. you never thought you would take. steroids. four days before i got sober i never. thought i'd be in a treatment center. four days later wow. and that was a decision i made right and.

because of the emotional pain and i was. just looking in the mirror and disgusted. at what i saw and all that i was like. what a. bunch of [ __ ] and lies and deceit. and just and it just gets so hard you. stack up so much stuff it's just too. heavy. and it's so interesting you had so much. weight on your body. like so much and it was like but then. you get this relief. of all of this [ __ ] weight crazy. isn't it which is just almost so ironic. and you're like it's crazy in your space. and today but in today like like you.

talk about like today's circumstance. when i do feel the way like you know if. i feel like a shitty day or it's like. like i'm sabotaging myself or whatever i. know why it's because i'm not connected. i'm not either talking to people or i'm. not or i haven't like for me. i even hit my knees in the morning and. ask for help well when you're. i think that this is a powerful thing. when you're six five like now six five. 265 whatever. when you hit your knees and you are. praying to the god of your belief.

and asking for help through the day and. asking about what you can add to the. stream of life instead of sucking out of. the stream of life. for a change that's a pretty humbling. experience. when you're that big a stature so you. know i was doing that when i was. six six you know playing for the colts. at 6 6 3. three twenty strong as an ox. and it's it's a very humbling experience. knowing you're. knowing how powerful you are right and i. could make stuff happen. like i can make things happen by the old.

phrase just grab the ball by the horns. just make it happen. if you got to step on people's toes do. it just make it happen. it's like i don't care how you got to. block this guy just don't get a penalty. and block him i don't care if you got to. take his knees out whatever right it's. like go to any lengths to protect your. quarterback. so it's it's kind of like that but it's. like you know it's. when you have that stature that size. that power and you're in the weight room. slinging weight around and all this but. in the morning. you know when you get on your knees and.

ask for help that's a humbling. it's a humbling act yeah and yeah. and you know it's like it's basically. saying you know i can't do this by. myself. i tried and almost killed myself yeah. almost killed myself. trying yeah because i'll never forget. when i'm in the treatment center in. detroit. and there was no fancy treatment center. and this was the first time you ever. went into treatment. first time so you went in and got it. yeah i'm not gonna do it again right. yeah um and uh okay take us there no. girl the girl the lady counselor it was.

our first like small like. 10 people session with a counselor and. it was all our first time with this. meeting and she goes. um so before we start she's like this. isn't pointing anybody out she's like. this applies to everybody she's like. just before we start i just want you all. to know that all of your best plans. of building your empires and building. everything got you here in this. treatment center in detroit michigan. and i can see like i know you know. or whatever it is going by the. interstate i'm going she's right.

and i was like talking about a. louisville slugger coming across your. forehead going holy [ __ ]. that reality yeah yeah i mean. funny now wasn't funny then. yeah but i'm trying i'm trying to think. of some of those first moments that. you know whenever i went into the rooms. because mostly i learned about recovery. through my family my. i have siblings that are you know in and. out or been in the program and um. and probably my father i mean i think so. many people struggle with addiction to.

different things. but i remember getting i remember i. drove through the parking lot one night. of a. of a room that's not far from where i. live and. i was talking to my brother something. the next day and he said well you know. who's not thinking about getting. treatment. and i said he i said who he goes. people that people that aren't driving. through that parking you know i'm saying. like not everybody's driving through the. parking lot of an aaa. center last night you know what i'm. saying like there's something inside of. you that's. curious that's thinking like and i think.

sometimes it is there's a magnet. that's created by that program um. you know last night i went to a meeting. and i went over to a buddy's house and. uh and i got there and i hadn't been in. probably like three months to his. meeting and. um it's just like six or seven guys. sitting outside by. fire right and i get there and suddenly. like i walked around the group and just. hugged like every guy there i know them. all right. and it was funny because i just had the. worst day and i get there and uh. and i was like man i didn't know that i.

was gonna hug all these guys when i got. here i forgot that. and they were all so excited to see me. like each individually we have our own. little relationship and like. i just i forgot that all these guys. cared about me and i forgot that i cared. about them like it's just like. camaraderie yeah and unless i like the. half-life or the. residual effect of like care it doesn't. the shelf life isn't long inside of me. for some long it's. you know it's really it's almost like. the shelves are like at an angle and. when somebody puts care on them. they just slide it just and i don't know.

why i think it was just the way the. shelves were built or something you know. but. it was just crazy because next thing you. know it was like the best moment of my. day. and all these guys was like man i always. feel like nobody cares but. these guys care they all care and i care. about them and i just freak. it just it doesn't stick to my ribs like. i wish it would a lot of times so that's. why. i think some people are like man you. chase your tail a lot it's like because. i forget that that that the tail. is there i forget that it how it grew. the tail's wagging the dog yeah right.

oh yeah it's like um i don't know it's. just it's. it's all fascinating man the program is. pretty fascinating you know recovery uh. it works so so take us a little bit more. so. so you you have that experience with. your brother kind of and then you get. into it and then you're playing at. michigan state then yeah. and you're doing and so at that point. you're on sarah you're getting into it. yeah yeah yeah like um my brother. got drafted in the first round in the. canadian football league so he went up. to edmonton. over the eskimos yeah oh ricky uh who.

played up their quarterback uh warren. moon was just done. he had come went to houston who just. played up there ricky. uh well i played a few years ago six. seven years ago i couldn't tell you six. seven years ago but it was. done again i think was a quarterback. matt dunnigan was the quarterback when. my brother played there. but um and then you know that year he. got drafted was the same year i went to. michigan state. okay because he was already done with. kent state so was that pretty. so was that tough when he left and. you're still there or it was at that. point you were all we sat down and we. made a new plan. dang because it was like all right this.

plan is executed. now let's make another plan and then so. we made a general plan. he reached his goals to get him drafted. he obviously wanted to get drafted to. the nfl. but you know wasn't you know i guess. it's a nicer man. they apologize for their sex they could. pick a guy. yeah sorry man here they're like. stepping on a guy's throat. canada some people come across the. street just to apologize to you they. didn't even do anything. hey you ever been to a tim hortons oh. yeah. yeah that's right cake donuts and stuff.

like you can get a meal there was like. what you have for dinner eight chocolate. doughnuts aren't those fluffy no they. like cake doughnuts they're good timbits. you know those little timbers. i love going into tim hortons every time. i go people are like what do you like to. see in cannon i'm like tim hortons you. know. they're all a little different right. right right right yeah. oh what's that on the roof a reindeer. maybe what is it. oh that's your step dad trying to do a. breaking and entering. but no matter what the holiday season is.

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off your next fire to purchase when you. do fireteabrand.com. theo that's firet f-a-h-e-r-t-y. brand dot com slash t-h-e-o for 25. off fire t brand dot com slash theo. um we had a question that came in this. is a question that came in from a young. man right here. about your time at michigan state he had. a kind of a long preamble. for tony is i'm well first of all i grew. up in east lansing so i'm familiar kind.

of with the incredible bulk the. folklore the story of the incredible. bulk. um and uh but i was curious. and i know a lot of people are gonna be. asking questions about steroids and. small penis things. and i'm sure um but. what was a what was the academic life of. a 1980s football star like. did you go to class did people do your. work for you. or maybe you were really diligent in. class i. i don't know but i suspected it was.

different. from the stereotypical college students. uh. experience that's a great question it is. a great question it's a great question. um so i mean i'll be 100. transparent um i went to class um i. i didn't i didn't graduate i was like 12. credits short of graduating. when i moved to cali after the gator. bowl was our last game and then. i i would have to go through spring. semester and graduate you know.

and i already knew i was going to get. drafted okay um. so you're just i just went to cali and. went to move to whittier. trained with my trainer and just it was. balls to the walls for the next six. months. training what was the study like when. were you at school. you know it was um. you know what i guess i'd be lying if i. said there was no favoritism. because there was there wasn't. favoritism favorites was not a good word. there were certain things that were made.

just. a little bit more convenient for us. but it's really at the end of the day it. comes down to what you. make it right because if i want it i. mean michigan state is known as a great. agricultural school and great veterinary. school. so it if i really applied myself which i. wish i would have. um like in something like business. administration or you know something. that. that there's fundamentals of business. that will be timeless. right right obviously the internet. changed a lot of that but still.

relationships are a fundamental of. business yeah so. but you know i took public relations and. marketing. which is still good even though the. marketing these days is so different. than the marketing would have been in. 80s like print marketing and stuff right. right you know or public relations or. whatever. but that also did help me yeah but that. did help me with a lot of the. you know pr stuff with interviews and. just. you know stuff like that so you were. going to class something yeah i mean. we had tutors at our disposal but you.

know our like my day would start at 7 00. a.m. and but you know you have to be at. practice at three. and i'd have classes all the way up to. like about an hour and a half before. prac. uh classes all day before practice and. then you'd practice for two hours. and then you'd have to watch film and. then they'd have study hall mandatory. study hall. at the football facility right so they'd. have tutors come in if we wanted them. and there'd be tutors available and then. um. or you could just stay in study hall. like it was mandatory. by the coach and were you a prize pig at.

this point were you like one of like the. heroes on the squad. when i when i went there yeah no i was i. was just. one of the guys in this class there was. some studs that came in my class did. y'all ever play against rudy from. that movie no we ain't that old yeah. good. i can't remember who they played notre. dame that was notre dame he played for. notre dame but we played notre dame. every year. yeah but no he's he's he's probably 10. years older. next generation um. so so the academics were not i mean it.

wasn't like there was no like. no freebies given right you know there. were some. you i would always have like i'd say one. course a semester that was kind of like. you pretty much if you attended it. you're pretty much gonna pass right. it almost sounds like anybody's college. period i mean i remember going in like. the greek kids always had all the tests. somehow right like that was insane how. the [ __ ] does this girl just because. she's kind of hot. right you know right right rebecca has. the [ __ ] test. you know what i'm saying she's never.

done anything but it was crazy you have. like. people really studying and then you. would just go over to somebody's house. 94. and they would have the same it was just. college sometimes was crazy. i got remember getting paid by a coach. one time to write papers for some of the. players even um. so i think there's always been some of. that in school you know just like uh. that. athletes get help yeah they get it but i. think they should because their time is. taken up. with practice too right and so that. being said their time is taken up with. practice. plus how much revenue does that support.

bring into that school. so and that's not saying hey look the. other sports don't matter yes they. matter. but a lot of those other sports at that. school or any school wouldn't exist. like no i'm not talking about basketball. i'm talking about yeah i'm not even. gonna say because i don't want to offend. it i'm not gonna say it. yeah i'm not gonna say anything. between titles eight and ten right and. it's like. it's like you know i respect anybody. that wants to compete and do something. that they love to do but totally but the. money comes from that that's how the. where a lot of the rent in michigan. state is football and basketball right.

so um which by the way they beat duke. yesterday did they yeah. i didn't see that i saw kentucky lost. last night i think to kansas did um. was there an opportunity for you to play. basketball at some point. [Music]. seriously yeah. they never said hey guy i woulda. what is that hey guy intramural maybe oh. really i wasn't the last guy who picked. an intramural team. okay but no michigan state like they. were i mean magic johnson had just left.

there. wow like three four years prior and they. were like stacked and they were. i mean that's big time basketball yeah i. mean they're good they're. i mean you know indiana's big time. basketball too. because at that time was bobby knight. was there oh wow and. the head coach at state now for. basketball was an assistant to judd. heathcote when i was there. so i've got to watch. this coach just you know blossom over. the last. 30 years so you get so you go through.

michigan state and then you get drafted. and by then you're like a hero that's. when we see like the big pictures of you. that's when we see you like um. you know really kind of put on this. i don't know what was that like like. take me through a little bit of that. like. did you s kind of start that legend of. yourself or was that all kind of media. created i know that sports illustrated. came out like the day before the draft. or a couple days before. yeah or you know one of the famous um. yeah that's right on that's right on.

venice beach actually damn dude let me. tell you this bro. if you wanted to uh start an all men's. football team today. on venice beach bro that picture would. get it done i'll tell you that. i'll tell you this half the moon will be. wearing roller skates. but you could like the four skates not. the blaze. rainbow socks rainbow socks we're. talking inline. we're talking inline but out of line you. feel me daddy. um so take i mean. because you like that that image right.

there especially for people that are. looking at sports illustrated like. that's the thing that comes in the mail. where it's like okay i didn't know about. this guy. and now i know about this guy and then i. go to the water cooler and i'm talking. about like i've known about this guy. forever. right yeah it was like a phenomenon it. was it was. it really like it was almost overnight. like that. for me it wasn't like any different like. i was like. working my ass off every day to be the. best right i woke up like literally. every day being like. what can i do today to get myself better.

and were you doing steroids that whole. time. um when i was at school yeah yeah. and did you feel like um do you did you. ever. i guess did you have the like were you. afraid to probably get off them at that. point i would be afraid to get all. i mean i was just going to math i would. have afraid to get off of them you were. collecting papers from. dudes you were married to the teacher. though. um you know yeah i mean if i had my. preference i would not have got off of. them. but the you know the nfl's testing was. way more.

uh sophisticated so was that scary then. you're getting drafted and you. know that like you know it wasn't as. scary. as you might think and this is why. because i've i've. looked back at this in my life and every. time i took steroids and then got like. if i got on for 12 or 16 weeks and then. got off for. uh 12 weeks and got back on i would lose. about. 10 15 maximum 20 of my strength. well then you know so every time you. cycle you compound that strength and. keep you keep getting stronger stronger.

so when i got drafted i mean if you're. benching close to 600 pounds and you. lose 15 or 20. of your strength you're still pretty. strong yeah and you're still pretty much. stronger than. a lot of the guys in the nfl so really. wasn't that much. of a concern the psychological effect of. steroids are. as well as they work physically the. multiplier on the psychological effect. in my opinion are at least. five to ten fold um like you know that. feeling you're talking about earlier. like when you feel like yeah. yeah and then then you don't have that.

feeling yeah right and you're going to. another level. oh that would be to me that's only don't. give me anxiety right now here you say. that like. okay i'm walking into this place and. suddenly like some of the wet. the sword is my sword's different right. and all the expectations. all the [ __ ] talking i did not on. steroids anymore still all the. accusations. i was like you know and i was like i'm. definitely not gonna do steroids because. it's gonna. everybody's gonna be like see told you. so he tested positive right so. but you know what the the thing was like.

that there was definitely that was a. spoke in the wheel. but everybody was like no that is the. reason the only reason and it was. perfect for me because it was like. there's so much distraction there was. focusing on steroids i was over here. taking 89 painkillers a day. conning all these pharmacists and. doctors that's crazy. so it took kind of like the thing like. the concentration away from. something they didn't know about because. they kept saying steroids well i was. half in the bag all the time. so at this point this one you start to. realize you probably have some addiction.

looking back it's easy to see it but. were you able to see that at the time or. not really. um my fourth year their third or fourth. year there well actually my third year. there i knew it was mainlining. pharmaceutical painkillers that was the. problem when in green bay you mean. yeah damn i knew that was the problem so. i'm just gonna switch to. livestock countries you're getting good. [ __ ]. you know what i'm saying like.

[Laughter]. like you wake up ready to work you know. you stick that aluminum machine up on. you oh yeah. dude i've had fresh milk right off of. the animal it's not that good i don't. think that's good it's not that good and. it's hot. yeah it's really overrated in like a lot. of the you know old school pictures and. stuff you see but um. yeah uh and we don't have to talk about. sarah i mean. i want to talk about your whole life you. know i just know it's. you know i just know that it's.

interesting and it's something that i. could kind of relate to yeah you know. um in the addiction like i never thought. i had a problem with drugs until it. came to the painkillers that's because i. was like. i like when you go through physical. withdrawal whether it's alcohol or. painkillers they're different. types but listen it's pain right it's. not a good comfortable feeling. and you were putting it in your vein. yeah i was mainlining it right there. with and see the mark. oh i could hit that vein right dark a. little basketball.

you could tell i was right-handed right. i didn't need a tourniquet yeah. right because it was all veiny anyways. but i knew that that was the problem. that's the rationalization kicked in. right i know it's the main lining that's. killing me. so i'm just gonna switch to oral. painkillers wow well then you're taking. 60 70 80 90 a day. and what were you on were some different. things you were on at the time. a lot of the basic stuff you'll hear per. game percocet there was one called. fearing all three that i really liked. if you're in all three i thought it was. a movie yeah right that's uh it's.

not the sequel but the third is it. wesley snipes in that. you know if you're in all three how. about this every year jason versus. freddy isn't it. within myself right it was a dark. it was a dark neighborhood up here and. there's some dark alleys boy i tell ya. but there was uh yeah there was. there was like uh if you're enough like. you you probably don't remember this. because it was before the internet there. was something called a pdr.

and it stood for physicians desk. reference. and if you'd ever go to your doctor's. office back then they'd have this big. thick it looked like a big old. encyclopedia. well it had every drug made that year. or that was available that year so i. would like this is the lengths i would. go to. to get the narcotics wow i would find. which ones are not. triplicates like triplicate um copies. of a prescription okay now it's all. digital and stuff even though they get. right physical. if it's a triplicate one of those uh.

forms goes to the dea okay one goes to. the doctor. and one i think goes to the pharmacy or. something well the trick was to find. something that was like. like a class or like a duplicate okay. because then it only goes to the. pharmacy. and your doctor and the pharmacies all. weren't integrated. so you could like if there was walgreens. on this corner it's not connected to. that walgreens. i mean it might be on paperwork right it. might be at least not already right. right you're right right but that was. the old internet somebody keep coming by. and get all these refills right.

and uh wow but yeah so i would look for. the duplicates. but that still had the certain chemicals. that i knew would you know mind-alter. wow so you were in it yeah. and then uh so that that that was a. duplicate. that injection it was used it was mainly. used for women that started labor. um because they didn't want to numb them. too much because they still had to push. yeah but it would give them enough of a. relief to take the edge off the pain so. that was like for somebody like a drug. addict it's. trying to you know it's perfect perfect.

yeah go to the bathroom but i'm gonna be. [ __ ] up right. right exactly do um where was your head. at at that point so my ass. [Laughter]. and there's some days sobers on my ass. how much how much what was your ego like. at that point i saw because it's funny i. saw a david letterman interview out. there years and it's. hilarious bro you have so many funny. lines in it. um you like my theo haircut uh yeah i. did i noticed that i knew.

i knew you were on your way immediately. this is definitely a sign that you're. going to end up in recovery. [Laughter]. but this interview i thought you were. just so first of all i could feel a. little bit of your nerves just because. what does it have to be like for a guy. like this to be. i mean this is a huge show um and then. to be sitting there and you went toe to. toe with them with a lot of great uh. comedy a lot of great barbs. um he had a lot of great lawns what uh. where was your ego. at during this because i can imagine.

that this would get you. probably you know your head would also. start to gain size was that happening. for you or were you just. were you chill i mean where was your. vibe no the ego was starting to get out. of control. and and this was you know i was the. injectable painkillers were just. starting. and i was i was at this time. i was on the tail end of living in. california i lived in cali for nine. months. and that's after the draft this was. after the draft. um before the season started yeah.

because i held out until september 5th. oh that's right you're talking about. your contract in this. because we were gonna because tyson's. people contacted. tyson's people contacted my people that. sounds so [ __ ] stupid. but that's how it works right we all get. it. but you know the the cool thing was i. loved letterman growing up i watched him. all the time and then you get this. invite you're going are you freaking. kidding me it's like almost as good as. getting. the invite to be on the show almost as. good almost as good. and because i was like theo who and i.

was like i. checked this guy out online before i. answered this email and i started. watching and like four hours later i'm. still watching all these different stuff. and i'm like this guy's like legit. he's like authentic he's no [ __ ]. he's funny and [ __ ]. we're trying and he's over we're trying. our best man you guys are doing it man. i'm telling you. but yeah i i i am really glad that you. uh. that you gave us the opportunity to be. here with you i appreciate it i really. am man um. so yeah because it's just it's. interesting man like uh for one i'm. surprised how easy it is for me to talk.

to somebody else that's in recovery. you know like a lot like a lot of that. it's interesting it's like. it's like a non-tangible risk it's not a. it is kind of a respect but it's like i. know you've been through the gutter. and i know you [ __ ] pulled yourself. out of it yeah and i know how you feel. it's funny. it's like i know how you feel in places. where i can't even describe it kind of. you know right right yeah and it's. especially interesting because to have. those feelings but also to be such a big. guy like when did that kind of come to a. head for you because it's. like some of those feelings it's like. damn i feel like such a [ __ ].

you know um and no offense to [ __ ]. you know no but if someone hasn't been a. [ __ ] in their life at some point they. have lived in a cave. sorry if if you haven't failed in life. okay i mean we get to fail on the front. page yeah. right so yeah i mean i brought it upon. myself i think accountability. um did you start to feel like um. so take me out on the road out of the. out of the nfl taking on that some of. that road.

the first time out yeah so for your. contract with. the packers was uh four year 4.4 million. dollar contract that was the first. offensive lineman. to get i need to water you have one of. yours i got caught okay cool um. i think i got a so i was the first. offensive lineman ever. in the nfl to make a seven figure. average salary per year without ever. playing a play. so you know that's going to kind of rub. some people wrong especially offensive. lineman. but the smart offensive lineman were. like. no this is going to help us right.

because the next year there was like 27. 28 guys that made over. that were in the league already and they. deserved it. so i went in with the kind of attitude. of this is a short-lived career. and it could be one play and you're done. like you could blow your knee out never. come back from. it i mean probably one of the greatest. athletes ever in my opinion is bo. jackson. and i think the amount of torque that. that guy had and strength in his body is. what kind of hurt his hip.

like i i believe that right it's almost. too much yeah it's almost too much. right because the guy was like just i. mean baseball he was an all-star and. in in football he was a an all-pro yeah. i mean he was unprecedented did you play. it around the same time as him or no. uh he was like three four years older. than me. okay um herschel was like. in that like kind of like you could have. that discussion with hershey walker too. he's like ridiculously like athletic. he still looks like yeah yeah and he's i. mean he's the real deal.

you know he's a great guy and um like. for me. like my class my draft class like you. know for the first five guys are in the. hall of fame. you bring that up nick please you know. dion like dion sanders right. i've never seen anything like that on. the field yeah that guy didn't run. across he glided across the loaded. i mean it was ridiculous what he did and. um. you know he's a he was a pleasure to. watch is it wild to see your name when. you look at this tony um not anymore.

it's right it's kind of like you know. it's like i i i you know listen. wow look i feel why not yeah look at. those guys though i mean unfortunately. you know derek thomas had that accident. that was heartbreaking yeah. god um but you know bert grossman. from the chargers i had done um his. radio show. uh from san diego like maybe a month ago. um there's some like steve hotwater yeah. you remember when atwater hit. um oh the guy from kansas city uh the.

nightmare the nigerian nightmare. i don't know if i remember when he hit a. guy from uh san francisco one time. um in this well the guy that uh what was. this oh. uh christian yeah and that from that hit. that guy's career was never the same. because he was running people over like. a train. and when he hit that guy it was one i. mean to this day one of the best hits. i've ever seen. and you know atwater was taken what late. in the first round. right watch this and christian nikoi was.

like 250 266. unbelievable man and he knocked him. backwards at full speed. wow i'll tell you what i got a lot of. respect for that. those broncos were fun to watch i got a. lot of respect for that um. so what what so take so take me uh take. me out of the end of that so you get. into you go into recovery in a real. world. no well yeah so i get you know pretty. much. not officially kicked out of the league. but kind of like green bay's like after.

the. contract was over after four years. they're like we're not going to resign. you. we don't we don't want your services and. they were professional about it. right and of course at that time i was. like well i don't want to play for you. guys it's your fault anyways that my. career screwed up. my life's good it's not my fault right i. was all about it all the time. all the time it was nick's fault totally. i got. so it was you know it was so that.

you know so i get that call in january. and. february i got the call that my brother. uh had passed. and then so it was like god things can't. get worse it's like oh man don't ever. say that. because things just got worse they got. worse and i knew that. i mean i knew that my nfl career. with the packers was a definite bust. because of the my addiction problem. and just my you know not being capable.

of. doing what i could do before i just. wasn't capable i don't think i could. have worked at a. anywhere 7-eleven and that's not dissing. 7-eleven or anything it's just. i wasn't responsible enough to show up. and for three years after that that was. out of the league. i it just get darker and darker and. darker and more and more and more. painkillers and where were you living at. that time i was in michigan maple city. michigan which is right by traverse city. wow i can imagine it gets pretty dark if.

you start just killing pain over in. michigan after a while. yeah michigan is beautiful though well. michigan is a great place i just imagine. like in those long winters and those. place. you know what i'm saying like i imagine. that coming around it was a long summer. it was a long spring it was a long fall. everything was. everything was like why do these bad. things keep happening to me. it couldn't be me could it and you were. on a lot of painkillers huh yeah. and were you just like spending days in. bed were you just like doing i mean. are you partying were you having no i. was uh. i wasn't much for like going out to.

party like. i i was like kind of like a loner drink. i was married and stuff you know and. we had a daughter our first daughter and. um it was it was like. isolated drinking i guess drinking and. drugging would be the isolated i think. would be the best. way to describe it i hated people yeah. you know because just guys they're gonna. interrupt my buzz. and i know i want my buzz perfect. and they're i've been watching this.

white bronco go down to 405. and i'm in michigan i'm going can you. believe this [ __ ] is happening am i. being messed up or is this [ __ ] really. happening like and. you know it was it was like a it was. like. i mean you're conscious you know what's. going on but it's a blur it's like a. blur yeah. yeah being being messed up that kind of. sounds a blur especially it feels like. with pain. with painkillers i never got into. painkillers but the couple times i did. my friend got arrested and i just woke.

up in my car right. you know and so it affects people. definitely too right like for me like. really a painkiller is a downer it's a. depressant as is alcohol. but for me when i would take a downer. like painkiller like opiate i would get. high. like like energy high and i'd be like. let's go. to the mall right and walk around the. food court and get something from every. place. um such an offensive lineman. [Laughter]. not much has changed there but.

but it it was it was weird but then you. know that darkness sets in. yeah it's not good it's uh when the. darkness gets that dark. you either get sober or you die or you. die from it yeah or. an or a symptom from it whether you take. your own life whether you. your liver goes whether your heart goes. whether all the side effects. what do you think right now i mean you. know we had this guy morgan wallin on. the podcast last week he's a country. musician and we talked briefly about. the side effects of this all this.

lockdowning and the. inability of like i'm going to meet with. with a new sponsor later today actually. to go over to start doing the step work. again. and we're trying to find a place to meet. and it's like we can't even. meet anywhere like we have to meet at. one of our houses which is fine but. if you're if you're just getting into. trying doing the steps or something like. if somebody's like hey come over to my. house and you've never even met them. right like that can be. you know some guys won't go do that. right and it just makes me like all the. meat.

you know so many of the meeting rooms. even though some are still going on the. dl but like a lot of them being closed. and. i just i i i feel like we're going to. lose more people from. the fallout of addiction problems than. we ever are from. this silly disease or whatever and. that's just from addiction. what about just mental illness right. like like the suicides. i saw you know a report i don't know. what to believe anymore what i see right. now. it's like so warped one way or the other. but numbers are numbers facts are facts. and like.

there's a four-fold numbers are up in. this one. state of teenage suicides from last year. to this year. and it's like what's the only difference. the lockdown right yeah and not no. nobody in school and it's like. kids that were on the fence with maybe. depression or with. you know kind of trying to figure out. still who they are it only took me like. 40 years but. i'm still trying to figure it out but. we're literally. as long as we're learning right as long.

as we're trying to learn um. so you know a lot of those people went. on the fence the other way and just. took themselves out because they felt it. was it was. you know easier yeah and it is easier. it's the easy way out. it's you know and it's that's you know. no disrespect. just to you know people that are related. that has had somebody do that to. themselves because it's it's got to be a. horrible feeling i mean i've had friends. that have done it and i and i just like. my heart just bleeds for him um because.

it's like. i mean how bad does it have to get to do. that. and it you know it's like well it did. get that bad you know for me. it got that bad yeah and others i've had. some moments over the years. yeah you just isolate enough or you feel. like nobody cares even though they do. but. yeah the worst conversation to have is. with yourself in your head. it's like it's like it's a bad. conversation it's a bad conversation. about. it's like i gotta run it by a lot of. people yeah you know and. not there's like three or four people.

that i like trust my life with. and i'll just be like what do you think. of this am i out of line here is my. is my ego get into this or is am i. being selfish with this or is this an. opportunity to take advantage of. and you know because. a lot of times my perspective is. different i grew up like i think. your environment the way you grow up. affects your perspective on life and. your life's experiences. um that's like easy that's obvious so.

that's why i need. other people's perspectives if if if. people were to raise their kids today. say the way i was raised. they'd be in jail right for child abuse. right or like you know you got slapped. or whatever. i only had to get hit well slapped in my. face twice. before you pancake block someone no it. was once i i was like oh before you got. together before i was like. after after the second time i was like. crystal clear i understand. if you say don't do this i won't that's.

the rule yeah and. and i was like you know six seven years. old and it was like. and and you know what i'm glad that it. was that way for me. because i don't want to be babied right. i don't want to be. you know i don't want to do pillow. fights it's funny because you say baby i. and sometimes i feel like honestly what. i feel like sometimes is a baby i'm like. i'm. like i'm a baby that never got certain. things when i was a baby probably so. [ __ ] sometimes i still act like a. baby. but then i'm the only person there it's.

like i'm the baby and i'm the person. [ __ ]. reaching it that has to reach into the. crib to [ __ ] help myself you know. so thankfully over time i start to. realize that i need to be. more at least i know i'm capable after a. few minutes of being the baby. or getting. right um so when did so we kind of gone. through like a little bit of like your. journey so tell me like. like when did you start to get like a. new perspective kind of march.

23rd and 95 walked into that treatment. center. and i remember thinking to myself like i. could picture that. that stainless steel door like. industrial door. and thinking to myself the fun's over. yeah but i was like i'd rather be boring. and. sober than miserable and drunk or. an alcoholic life and. 11 days later i stayed in that treatment. for 17 days at. day 11 i started laughing again. and uh.

my gut hurt from laughing that day wow. and i was like i forgot about that you. noticed it i forgot about that feeling. that powerful. and i was like i don't know what's. happening but i'm digging my claws into. it. and i've been laughing ever since damn. even on the tragic days there's been. some kind of laughter even if it's been. internal. like amusement in my own head like is. you know like we make fun of our poke. fun of ourselves. oh yeah i don't have to sit and laugh. out loud to be. you know put things in perspective but. you know even on days.

where my mom died three years or three. and a half years ago was like a hard day. for me and. and and and really it was like the. harder year after was harder for me than. that week that. you know that she had died and stuff she. always have stuff to do that week. yeah i kick into like you know i gotta. get things done there's responsibilities. i gotta you know make sure things are. right. and then once you sit you know that. passes and then you sink in and you're. not buying that ticket to go see mom in. november. like to see her for christmas because. you're like mom ain't there i'm.

gone that's when you're like [ __ ] that's. heavy. um so you so you went in there you. started to get better. yeah yeah like day 11 started laughing. again and then. yeah there's little things man you. notice i i remember. having a thought that made me laugh i. remember just driving one time. and um and i've struggled in and out. over my five years in recovery but i've. never given up on. on the program or or trying to uh.

you know i haven't given up on that path. yet in my life um. and i'm trying it new now you know. trying it again um. but i remember yeah a time when i. just was driving down the road and i. laughed just by myself and i was like. [ __ ] i haven't done that in months. just the little things that were like um. that you just came or just like i. remember i woke up in the middle of the. night one night and i didn't have a. thought in my head. and it was like jesus christ this is so. nice isn't that nice.

the noise is not there yeah just like. especially for someone like you. yeah well it's like somebody started. like somebody left something plugged in. that's rattling like. 40 years ago and it's rattling all that. and i can't. find it put a twist tie around that. thing yeah. something um so you had a second. opportunity with the nfl. yeah okay which i was very lucky to get. because i burned all my bridges i was i. was thorough. i burned them all i was like i'm not. gonna burn one or two i'm gonna fry them. all.

because it's all their fault couldn't be. my fault. and so you know there was a huge. paradigm shift. once i left sobriety it literally almost. went to. what's for it went from what's in it for. me to. what can i pack into life what can i. pack into how can i make things right. that i wronged and then after i make. some of those things right because some. of you can't. then how am i going to live and. am i going to be adding on a daily basis. to life and participating or am i going.

to be sucking and conning people like. sucking out of life and conning stuff. out of people and. you know because then it's like it's. like that you know you've i'm sure. you've heard that analogy of the so. the drunk horse thief that you get sober. you get it. you know if you get a of a drunk horse. thief that steals horses and you sober. them up what do you have. you have a sober horse sleeping still. steals he's got to change. he's got to change and so i knew that. okay. the chemical part was changed but now i. had to change.

and that paradigm shift happened kind of. naturally. just from the removal of chemical of. what's in it for me to. holy [ __ ] like i did some [ __ ] up. stuff and i wronged some people. right and so i you know made those. amends over. you know most of those amends were done. over the first two years and then. the one of the bigger ones with my dad. um wasn't done until the four year mark. but it was done and it was it was you. know necessary it was what was that like. well you know what it was this it was.

the one that obviously scared me the. most it was. had the most fear and i was in. indianapolis he was in canada. and um like i was. four years sober and a guy walked in to. a regular meeting i went to a 12-12. meeting. and he was like almost 20 years sober. and a regular guy that i knew. and he had said that his dad had passed. away that day. and uh and then he talked about how he. never made amends to his dad and i was. like. holy [ __ ] i was like louisville slugger.

came out again. damn out that next day i was on the. phone with my dad i was like. for christmas i'd like to come up and. see ya. you know and uh and he was like yeah so. i went out like that was towards the end. of the season so when the season was. over. um i drove up to canada and made amends. to him. and uh it was it was it's. you know it's like i i was lucky to be. surrounded by good sobriety. guys that were very good in sobriety and.

that were. and i chose a sponsor that would not. baby me i don't want to be babied. um and. he said when you make amends you look at. the person in the eye and you tell them. you were wrong. for the way you acted or what you said. or what you did. you don't say i'm sorry because you know. you. how many times have we said i'm sorry. for this and when we're all messed up. right i'm sorry. we're always apologizing right yeah it's. like no. he literally said i was wrong for acting.

that way while i was drinking or. drugging or whatever and you know i'm. here to. you know acknowledge it and even if they. played. a part in it it's not about that yeah. you're there for. to make your part right and it's crazy. how people don't realize that that is. the real. key to a lot of it you know is setting. yourself free even though it feels like. you're letting them off the hook. well you're getting your own here's the. thing there's a huge. caveat in there that is huge the that i. know. i've seen people do this and it's like i.

just want to like punch them in the face. and it's like they make the amends. for them you know they do it right the. amends at the expense of that other. person yeah it's gonna hurt that other. person. more re hashing that up or whatever the. situation is. it's there are some things better just. left alone yeah. and just let your life the way you live. be the example and if that person ever. approaches you. or if you just get in a situation where. it feels right to be like hey man you.

know about you know. um you know about the past or whatever. but there were ones most of my amens. were. literally like where i planned them and. i. you know talked to the person or. communicated and said hey you know i'd. like to. meet up just talk to you about some. stuff and um. so they were you know mostly like that. but to look your dad in the eye and say. i was wrong for all these it was. wow be powerful it was powerful had you. been like ashamed of your dad or. something have you been like or. scared to death were you there i was.

like 6 6 3. 25 you know strong [ __ ] second time in. the nfl. and that should put a lot of things in. perspective for people that don't. understand addiction. that how emotions can run your life and. how fear can run your life. and how just because you're being strong. doesn't mean you're not scared yeah. you know people have assumptions that. i mean i've it's been it's just i've. there's just been some humorous things. i'm sure. as you have had in your life where.

people have this assumption of what. a comedian how they live what they drive. what this you know they live in this 10. million dollar however. it's like yeah it's like you know it's. it's. it's interesting to me to observe that. as life has gone on. but um i forgot what the [ __ ] we were. talking about the amount. yeah i've had concussions yeah [ __ ] i. don't know. i'm not that smart i never was because. but i work with a guy who's [ __ ] got. enough concussions for all of us.

[Laughter]. but yeah it's uh well the thing about. putting things in perspective that. look my fear is the same fear that. soccer mom fear has. right it's like just because. you know some people will say to me you. know like. when i played and and even sometimes now. or they might say it you know if it's. just comes up in. conversation about.

you know well i mean i know you wouldn't. be if you know that wouldn't mess with. you because i mean you know you could. you could handle a situation like that. and i'm thinking of myself and i would. literally will. be transparent i'll be like how do you. know yeah and they they're. still not getting it and i'm like and. then i would just share a story with. them. that is almost the semantics are. different the story is identical. the situations are different but it's. identical and it's like you know i was. scared to death. this story i shared with you about my. dad it's like. would you like i'm sure there was people.

going what do you mean you were scared. of your dad. your dad will always be your dad yeah no. matter what. and your mom will always be your mom and. you know. it's like your bigger brother will. always be your bigger brother or younger. brother or younger sister whatever it's. like. it's kind of like we get these certain. roles and it's like. you know dad will always be alpha no i. don't care if i'm 10 times stronger than. him it'll always be the alpha. family yeah yeah i think there's. probably some like uh. code that's within some of our law yeah.

we got a question right here that came. in from somebody that has a. iphone and i actually had one too how. often when people hear your name. do uh they mix your story up with todd. marinovich. does that ever happen you know hardly. ever because yeah he was just the. problem yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and. then. a little bit younger than me but i i. tell you what i do get a lot of. is when people will hear my name and. they'll be like. they'll be like are you the you know.

yeah and they'd be like okay. but that makes sense carry on that's. your name now. am i supposed to fake it that's true i. thought maybe you were the guy that died. that fought rocky for a second. oh but then you know i've made some. i don't know a lot here's a young fella. that has a question right here. he's probably trying to buy some wind. straw i bet. a little bloated what up theo what up. tony a big fan from the university of. alabama represent from tuscaloosa.

on a side note theo we're gonna beat. lsu's ass this weekend you probably will. my question for tony is as a former. offensive lineman myself. what was the best game as far as. knockdowns or pancakes whatever you want. to call them that you ever had. and how many did you have game game game. bro what do you think there tony. there was there a game that stands out. really. um i'd yeah there's one because i.

i like wanted to go out and torture the. person or the team. or the school that i didn't like and it. was that other school. in michigan i don't know what their name. is but yeah there's only one school in. michigan. right no that's no disrespect to u of m. i mean. they're a great institution but. obviously a huge. interstate rivalry and at that time they. were like. constantly winning going the rose bowl. beauchem beckler iconic. i mean so much respect for that guy um.

but you know i i probably had games. where i had more pancakes or. otfs we used to call them off the film. um where you drive a guy so far off the. like that you don't even see him on the. film. so i had like probably like some games. or. more but there was a certain michigan. game that we had. where probably maybe had 13 or 14. pancakes wow. but it's because it was michigan it was. sweeter. yeah right and um.

yeah it's like i it was interesting like. when i look back and i don't think i'm. sadistic. but i didn't play to make friends. and i didn't play to help you up if you. were my opponent. i didn't play dirty um there'll be. people that say well you cheated. okay and and that's legit but i didn't. you know. after after michigan state you know it's. like. i didn't take any steroids but yeah at.

school i mean. yeah did i take steroids was it yeah did. i cheat yeah i did. i was wrong for doing it and i don't. recommend that anybody does it. um but that drive for. for like you know your etiquette and. stuff i mean what's. in your blood and what's in your heart. and your what's in your behavior can. be different things yeah and you don't. you know there's people that. especially guys that i'm talking that. are like well yeah but he took steroids. and it's like okay well. yeah why didn't you play in the nfl.

right why didn't you become all-american. why didn't you do all these things all. you had to do was take steroids. yeah right it's like it's like you don't. just take steroids sit around and get. jacked yeah everybody every guy would be. jacked and have abs. right you have to put in the work with. it right right and my work was. relentless. because of walking home from snowstorms. yeah. because of the head coach i had because. the guy who recruited me nick saban. they were all relentless about work.

ethic and. the way i grew up parents were. immigrants they like literally. escaped put their lives on the line out. of a communist country in the 50s wow. so i'm like thinking to myself i'm. laying there on the field. at camp sober in indianapolis my second. year there. and it's hot as [ __ ] in july humid. and like just beating up with sweat. during stretch. right you still got two hour practice to. go and kind of feeling sorry for myself. and like.

you know and then i started thinking. about a story my mom told me or. something. where her mom pulls her out of third. grade back in the old country in europe. and. it was croatia but it was at that time. yugoslavia. pulled her out of third grade class. and said the guy that was taking care of. our sheep in the mountains. has bailed on us so here's a wooden. staff i need you to go take care of the. sheep. and keep the wolves off of them. damn that's social studies right so good.

so when i. i would start thinking of those stories. and i'd be like. whiny ass i know you feeling sorry and. you're getting paid seven figures. and you're bitching about it of course. this was all internalized you know my. self-discussion in my head and it helps. put things in perspective. and it's not tricking yourself it's. legit perspective right. like that happened in 55 that wasn't. that long ago. yeah yeah we've got i mean it's even i. think about it during this pandemic it's. like we're all kind of stuck but then. we're all stuck with our machines and.

our. you know trim and our manscaping our. penises or whatever everybody's doing. doing that way before the panda game. i was ahead of the game you might have. been ahead of the game there. but you know what the pandemic for me. personally. has been awesome yeah because like i. i've started to realize i really like. psychology. and like the study of just observation. of people and how they act in human. behavior. and including my own and.

it was a fantastic year to do that yeah. like with the toilet paper phenomenon. yeah plus. there was a ton of things i had on the. back burner. that i was gonna eventually get to like. when i had a lull in photography or i. had a lull in something with work. i would get to this and so now there was. a lull right. so now i was like okay well hey i can do. these. projects i had on the back burner. because i did because it was possible. yeah so now i've got those projects.

going. and so you know for me. personally it's been a great year and. and and not so. not as much great monetarily as it's. been learning. it's been freaking phenomenal it's a. good attitude man. yeah we talk about perspective and stuff. in here a lot and not battle it every. every week and every day um a lot of. what you're doing now is photography. right. yes did i answer that guy's question. that man said he said. your best game yeah michigan oh yeah.

yeah it was michigan yeah it was. and what was saban like at that time you. know he was do you remember him finally. or no yeah. yeah i mean i babysit his kids oh damn. yeah. um i would say nick was uh oh yeah. i behaved and i'd be alarmed if you. freaking bottle-fed me dude i would. be alarmed nick was uh. awesome nick is the same guy i mean he's. a different guy today but he was pretty. much the core of him was. exactly what he is what you see now he.

was about fundamentals. discipline keeping things simple. removing distractions and do your. job you'd be you should go talk with. jocko willing he'd be great on jacob's. podcast tom. what to put you guys together man he you. guys yeah i'm a huge fan of his yeah. he's. good he's legit i got his books and. stuff yeah he's um. he's definitely when i think about. giving up which is a couple times a day. usually at least one of those times i. won't. because yeah you and me both um. yeah saban's unbel it's just it's. unprecedented in almost what he's done.

he was a db coach when he recruited me. and ohio was his area. so you weren't even on his on his docket. no he was there. looking at another guy who was one of. the stars on our team and. then he said to our head coach at the. high school who he knew. it's like who's that guy and he told him. and everything he goes well. you know we want to talk to him and they. watch film and stuff and then he they. offered me a scholarship and. on i remember sitting with nick and. nick was the same i mean he's the same.

he's a phenomenal. human being the guy is like a first. class human being. i mean and terry his wife terry um. they're great people and uh. i was so lucky to be surrounded by some. of these people. and even all the mistakes i made i was. so lucky to be surrounded amazing and. then to watch. nick go from this db coach to. possibly being one of the greatest ever. college football coaches yeah and then. when he went to alabama it was like oh. you know i'm going to. like knock bear bryant to the side come.

on now. there's like a hug right now it's like. no that could be. argued that could be argued because he. did it at lsu. yeah yeah you know there's a lot of. michigan state people that hate him. because he left michigan state. as he was a head coach at michigan state. when he left for lsu but. it's like it's like look man it's a. business yeah it's like. it's funny how your dream sometimes when. they interact with business how they. don't. you wish they would go a certain way or. be a certain way but then sometimes the. gifts you still get your.

you still get your dreams it's just not. exactly how you would expect. um looking back do you feel like uh. do you feel like you did the best that. you could have playing football do you. feel like. what you did was what you were gonna do. that was it yeah i held nothing back. yeah i held nothing back at michigan. state. um it's like it's almost. like oxymoron to say i held nothing back. in green bay i held nothing back. drinking and drugging. yeah but i just wasn't capable of.

giving them everything that you know. that they had saw on film but then when. i got sober i got the chance to go to. indy and. i was like i literally treated. every day like um like literally like. life and death. wow like if i don't do this today. i will die and there was times where. do what you mean the work right. and and not just the time the work at.

work. during the time because you can put in a. bunch of time. and spin your wheels or you can put in. the time and. keep moving forward even if it's that. small increments because it adds up. yeah um do you still. uh you speak on on recovery and stuff. these days. i speak on recovery um adversity. and uh just a lot on you know thinking. you know like. kind of like there's a talk i give when.

i speak public do public. speaks uh which kind of slowed down. after the. pandemic um about and the talk is titled. uh why not me yeah and then it's got. like it's through a four description for. the people that book. people to speak on what i talk about and. you know i've always asked myself why. not me. be the one to go from canada. and i was like 11 years old when i made. that decision like i want to play in the. nfl. yeah living the dream you really got to. live out your dreams and i was like why.

not me. right like why like seriously why not. somebody's going to win the. the um powerball right so why not me. well. okay we got to take some action you got. to buy a ticket right so at least you. got to have skin in the game. right if you don't buy a ticket you're. not serious right right. at least you're trying right you're. going to see your sponsor. you're moving you know one thing you're. moving forward. whether that's the right sponsor or not. you're looking and seeking. for right making yourself better yeah.

so that has to be that has to be. acknowledged. it has to be acknowledged well i think. those are the things that build up. little bits of esteem inside of yourself. you're like okay i'm making this choice. i'm this is what i'm going to do you. know it's like whether it goes. well or not right then you are you. already win a little bit because you're. like i'm i'm making this. effort yeah you know that's such the. hard part sometimes is just. you know sharing or raising your hand or. yeah i struggle with it too. yeah it's hard it's crazy sometimes i'll. be in a meeting and i'll.

everything in my brain will be like just. share just tell what's going on and i. won't you know i think you. like i think when you do like i think. i'm gonna be honest with you i've. watched a lot of your stuff in the last. couple weeks and. i'm like [ __ ] you know like this guy's. described a lot of my life like so like. it's like. there's so many common things but the. state i. like the least and the whole union is. louisiana yeah i just. it's just one of those states that i've.

gone there like three or four times. to play the saints and it's always been. smoggy and smelly yeah so. like that's my impression of louisiana. there's so much tradition there and like. stuff and like. culture and stuff that i you know like i. know about but i really don't know about. right and it's like it's it's it's not a. disrespect to the beat it was just kind. of like. every time i've gone there it's kind of. been dirty and smelly yeah some of you. get those experiences in places. so it's like you know and but i'm sure. there's people like you know you live in. the desert in arizona it's like. you know yeah they got a lot of uh.

serpents out there yeah and scorpions. and. uh people have divorcees. oh they stick like a sword oh my god. they're red flags walking around. all they need is a sickle and a hammer. uh yeah connection is so key man it's. crazy our connection breaks down the. different things that we. well you know like crazy the other. things that we keep this apart. yeah the other day you had said.

something. when you do your like uh solo podcast. you do like a lot of talking about. what's going on and stuff and you talked. about. you had said something i was like i can. [ __ ] relate to that [ __ ] there. i pulled into a donut shop and i started. crying oh wow didn't get out of my. vehicle. wasn't touching myself yeah no no when i. was listening to you i was watching it. on the youtube [ __ ] i. feel like you're like wait a second but. you know and then you know. right right and i'm like yeah i know.

that feeling. and it's like you know you think like. like you shared it it's real it's. transparent yeah but you don't know how. that affects other people. right because i was like oh [ __ ] i know. that feeling it may not have been a. donut shop. might have been a denny's right that i. pulled into or just might have been an. empty parking lot. that i pulled into and started feeling. sorry for myself if that was the case. for me or whatever the case was. and then you know i love the fact that. you can laugh at yourself because you. crack a joke. while you're doing it and you do it. without laughing can you say well i was. kind but i wasn't touching myself. yeah you know i'm glad i wasn't there.

because the people walking you get. arrested for that. well yeah now you're right you get a. long john with cream in it yeah. that's you that's the original tim. hortons right there dude to some guy. masturbating. that's crazy man yeah i was just having. a day man i just had a weird morning it. was just kind of lonesome when i went. there and then my brother's talking to. me. and my brother's been doing this thing. recently like when we're on the phone if. i'm talking about. like uh how i'm feeling or just. something that's going on like he'll be.

like oh if you need me to stay on the. phone with you. after we're done talking i'll just sit. here with you you know and. i won't say anything and you don't have. to say anything right. and he's like i'll just sit here with. you that's pretty cool you know and man. it just like. that's pretty cool i mean that's it was. crazy because i just never had anybody. say hey you know no matter what you're. feeling or thinking right now. it's okay i'm just gonna be here with. you right and you don't have to say. anything and i don't have to say. anything. and i and i'm just here for you and man. it just it's. powerful oh it just like it just it.

it gets uncontrollable i'm just like man. that's powerful you know uh. that's real [ __ ] it's not it's like. that's authentic real stuff. and you find out who the real who who's. in your who's loyal to you. yeah like and there's there's different. levels i guess of loyalty. different degrees of loyalty but like. when it comes to life and death i'm. talking yeah that's the only loyalty i. want i'm talking about is like i'll be. in your corner even if you're wrong yeah.

like that's the kind of loyalty i'm. looking for and. i have less than in my at 54 years old i. have less. than that on you know on one hand like. less than five people. less than four people well it's it's. interesting because the. the one of the remarkable things about. it for me sometimes is that. i think some of my uh. reality and the a little bit of the pain. that comes with it is that i don't know. if i'm ever that for anyone. and so someone is told realization i.

just shared with you about the donut. thing and it wasn't it was a funny thing. oh that's interesting and i'm sure. people were like well that was like out. of left field. but here i am at 20 almost 26 years. silver going. like it made me stop it stopped me in my. tracks yeah so i was doing [ __ ] around. the where i live. i was doing something right and i had. your podcast on and i was listening to. it. and i was like oh [ __ ] i was like lump. in my throat i was like. i know exactly what that feels like yeah.

so you never know what we say. and we may think it's something like. minutia that doesn't. important um but it'll affect people. yeah and it may help somebody. that's on the fence say you know what if. if that jackass. tony can do it i can do it like i can. get sober. i can at least try and you know what. there's a lot of paths to sobriety. the 12 steps aren't the only way it was. the way that worked for me.

yeah and i don't question it and i back. it up. and i'll help any i'll help somebody if. they think. you know if they think having a crystal. in front of them or something that's not. crystal meth. a sedona crystal oh yeah if they think. that's gonna get them sober. okay so be it it's like all right look. if you're trying to improve your life. and if you don't drink. and it's like well you can't be you know. dropping acid. around a crystal trying not to drink. because well that's kind of you know. you're. yeah you got to give something into the.

program that's the thing about it. you know it's like you just you have to. give you have to give up something. that's the only reason there is any. value to it to you. um and especially when you're somebody. who has always taken just for yourself. to have to give something up that's a. really hard thing to do. it is uh to really give it up and say. you can't you're not gonna do it you. know so then i want something in return. so that activates a part of me that's. gonna really seek out to probably get. better. because i'll be damned if i'm going to. give something and not get something. right. because that's the way that i felt.

growing up like um. like if somebody cared about me that. they it was a give and get situation. like. it was all transactional right you know. even if it really wasn't right it may. have been. right right right but that's how it. registered inside of me you know. in the cash register inside of my heart. or whatever that's how it registered. right it was a transaction. and that's not quite like that feeling. when you freely give selflessly. yeah and expect nothing in return now if. something does come back in return so be.

it but if. you don't expect anything you're good. yeah it's like. there was times that there were times. and i noticed this. after it happened and this would be. years a couple. you know more than five years ago i. would on thanksgiving sometimes or if it. was christmas or whatever. i would just show up at the phoenix. salvation army downtown. and i'd be like um i've got four hours. what do you need me to do like i can put. meals on the table for. uh the people i can wash dishes i can.

bus tables i can do whatever take. garbages out do a spinal adjustment. whatever. you probably could we need you to crack. people's backs over here by the by the. uh about the stuff pancake this guy. you know it's like so you show up and. you do that right. and then it's the humanly right it's a. good thing to do if you have. if you know yeah if that's something. that. motivates you so when i've i've done. that before. and then i've shared it.

on social media like maybe a picture and. not bragging just. shared like uh you know i was lucky to. be able to do this today right then i've. done that. and not shared it on social media and. just shared it with some friends. and then i've done that and not shared. it with anybody. [Music]. and it's funny because when i don't. share that with anybody and i just go do. it. i get the most out of it wow it's kind. of like. that when doing the right thing and. doing the stuff when people aren't.

watching. it's like you still do the right thing. so it's like. as much as i i want to say well it's my. ego that wants other people to know look. at the good stuff i'm doing. right even if i just tell my close. circle. still part of it the way i don't think. that and and you know people that do. that there's nothing wrong with that. no but i kind of looked at all three of. those situations and i found that i got. the most. out of it because i knew you know. i believe in god so i knew god knew.

right i knew. and i was just trying to be of service. to god's kids yeah who were. and those people the only difference. between the people those people and me. when i was drinking was time because it. was only a matter of time before i was. gonna. be at that table with them if i was. lucky to be at that table with them i. was. dead yeah man it's interesting to hear. that especially in a day where we live. in such a place where we want to share. things and how we do it and how our. communication is. you know our mouths or our phones now. it's like that's.

um it's interesting man but it's a nice. reminder. you know it's a nice reminder of uh. especially going into the holiday season. man yeah. um i gotta get some photos taken can can. you take me to tony's pictures. real quick please nick um. nick forgot his charger at home that's. okay nick's running we're gonna finish. up quick. seven percent that's how nick always is. i got one right behind me. nick's always on about a seven percent. man but he's but he the other 93.

he spent it he definitely spent it. getting his job done um. it's not because he just showed up was. you know he spent it right. he spent it wisely wow this is awesome. man so you got into this photography how. did. tell me take me through that man you. know the the big catalyst was. dang the s-i cover that's a big catalyst. right you're right. i'm catalog. you're in ketosis right now ladies yeah. this is interesting. yeah it's like a lot of it's compositing.

so i think uh we'll have a plan we'll. take a. picture of the person's studio and then. um. whatever the plan is we'll uh. you know i'll add the composite and. usually i try to make nine. any composite i do i try to make the. picture like the background picture the. picture i took. whether it was a ship rock or whatever. like oh i see you're saying she'll take. a actual photo of a person and then put. it on another photo of uh. that i took obviously right right. interesting. this one like that one this is cool like.

how many that thing got a ton of likes. i i believe this is the one that got a. ton of likes but here's the funny thing. that was 120 weeks ago okay so. 79 000 views okay i got home. and i saw this clouds like that like. they were moving that's time lapse right. there the shot taken every say three or. four seconds five seconds. and i took my camera and literally all i. did was i put it on top of my jeep. no tripod i just put on top of my jeep. kind of tried to make it as level as.

possible. set the timer to record and i had set. and my camera was like a. decent camera it's like five or six. thousand bucks so i was like well i. gotta hang out i'm like. just like walk away from the jeep i'm. not in the middle of a desert. where you can walk away from the jeep. and uh and yeah that thing ended up. getting a ton of views and it's like one. it was one of the. most simple and unexpected photos you. know and like that you can see the. before and after there that. of the gentleman with the white tank on. you know it's like that's. like that when you see the final shot or.

that's like the behind the scenes shot. and then you see the final shot. oh it's interesting and it's like a lot. of people will say well. i never thought it would look like that. and yeah and a lot of times the. person can't picture what i'm picturing. because i have an idea and. we try to get on the same page with a. lot of stuff like that one of the milky. way there. yeah that was uh i was looking at the. other one oh yeah yeah you're looking at. the milky way. [Laughter]. i was looking at this horrenus right. sorry and that's out of line and i'm. sorry too.

no it ain't yeah you're right because. that's a planet yeah it is. well yeah as you were talking about yeah. yeah so you know they see the milky way. coming out. wow so that was at goblin valley and. what is that lasers right there what. does that look like those are uh. actually those are some of them are. shooting stars but most of them are. planes. wow most of them are planes you can tell. the difference between a shooting star. and a plane. by certain things those are planes right. there that's a dope dude. isn't that cool yeah that's crazy that's. in the middle of freaking nowhere that's. really really cool and i love it.

dude i'll let let's do some pictures. sometime when i get out of here that'd. be super cool to get something neat. i think i think get something outside. yeah and just something that. really like especially you know it would. be cool to do something. with my boy oh that's a puppy you have. well yeah he's uh. a newfoundland a brown newfoundland he's. a really good dog he's the best. so he from what he's from another. country well he's from the from. the province of newfoundland which is. the east coast of canada. yeah i think i met someone there off the. internet once.

halifax yeah halifax is yeah. they out there yeah they're uh it's nice. over there yeah. yeah it's it's uh cold off the ocean. yeah it seems really. like you just marry whoever you meet. first kind of thing. just make sure they're in your family. yeah yeah. well it's a different you know time's. out i think we'll see more of that. coming up in the future. we'll see a surge of numbers well i. think people are tired of just meeting. people outside of their families. honestly.

i really do i think people are like oh. this isn't working out yeah a lot of. avenues of humanity aren't really. working out that well. it's kind of like a big shakeout just. happened. a riffraff yeah it's crazy yeah like. but man i'm glad to be a part of your. tribe tony and and i'm so thankful that. you came in. i'm grateful i got asked to be on and. and um. i i i feel i can call you a friend. yeah it was it was. i mean watches a lot of your stuff i. watched a lot of your stuff because not.

because. uh not like i started watching some of. it just to make sure you were legit. right because i mean i just don't watch. much. of the like certain genre stuff right. and when i started watching i couldn't. stop watching. and i started losing track of time and. then when i started losing track of time. when i'm doing something i know i'm. doing something good. like i know i'm doing something that i'm. into so it's like it always kept me. interested. in what like you're and the diversity of. people that you'll have on or talk to. and then when you do the solo ones when. you just start reflecting about stuff.

you say. funny like funny stuff obviously i find. hilarious because i can relate to so. much of it it's like my movie is dumb. and dumber right. it's like i can relate to it because. that's i'm freaking lloyd right but it's. like. it's like i catch myself i probably. bank 20 hours of whether youtube or pod. so i'm like no like this i can relate to. this guy this guy adds. like this show adds to my life even the. stupidity part of it as to my life. because i can relate. right but there's so many things that go. deep yeah.

that you know like will stop me in my. tracks and it's hard to stop me in my. tracks. that's probably because i walk with. purpose that i got [ __ ] to do. and i got [ __ ] like got time to stop and. just waste time. because time is limited for me it's. interesting how as we get older it. starts to get a little bit limited if. somebody ever said you want to try to. stop tony manderson's tax i would have. said. no way please i'm gonna send nick in and. do this job. man no it's a pleasure man it's a it's a. pleasure to talk to somebody you know i.

think i needed to be. around somebody today that's in the. program and just you know i don't think. you know just how much i needed that in. my own life today so i think even you. being here. is kind of like a service call in ways. that you probably can't even know. you know right right um and that is. reciprocal right that works both ways. yeah and it's cool man and yeah i'm here. for you and and we'd love to have you. back sometime and. and uh and just thank you bro thanks for. coming in today man it's an honor. i'm grateful i'm a great i'm honored to. to be on the show and and yeah it's cool.

man you just never know how things are. happening i mean. literally what happened was i saw 15. seconds. of uh a video about you probably like. six weeks ago. and um probably the e60 special or. something that did it last year. maybe yeah and i'm not even sure what it. was it was like a no this was just a. clip it's just a clip on top and i was. like oh man this is so interesting. and nick is a huge grenade packers fan. and so i was like oh this is this seems. like it would be something that we could. talk about and then once. i looked more into it and saw the. recovery and stuff i was like oh this. should be pretty cool. no i appreciate it's uh and and i know.

that. somebody that listens to this it'll help. somebody yeah. it'll help and for somebody to reiterate. that i am an ass. yeah where some people it'll it'll. be like if they can do it yeah why can't. i do it. why can't i get sober if they can get. sober yeah man right. yeah i think that we're made of the same. stuff. as far as the laws of nature oh it's a. simple recipe man. it's and we're just pretty con you know.

why not me. yeah why not me man why not me get sober. and stay sober and not have to go back. yeah that's the way i look at it. yeah i think especially right now man. it's a good message for a lot of people. you know. um tony manners thank you so much bro. thanks brother. now i'm just floating on the breeze and. i feel i'm falling. like these leaves i must be cornerstone. oh but when i reach that ground i'll. share this piece of mind i found i.

can feel it in my bones. but it's gonna take a little. time for me to set that parking brake. and let myself on my eye. shine that light on. i'll sit and tell you my stories.

[Music]. and now i've been moving way too fast on. the runaway. [Music].

now.