Stephen Wilson Jr. | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #630

Today's guest is a musician and a. songwriter originally by way of Southern. Indiana. He's got that voice in him. He's got. that power in him. He's got it. He's got. it. He has a new single, Gary, that's. out now. And a soldout tour in the. spring. I'm thankful to finally get to. sit down with Mr. Steven Wilson Jr. Shine. on me. and I will [music]. find a song. I've been singing,

>> man. I've just u I'm such a fan of yours. on all levels. Your podcast and your. comedy and. >> Thanks. >> and your humanity. Um so yeah, it's it's. it's an honor to be here. >> I appreciate it. Stephen Wilson Jr., thank you so much, dude. Yeah, it's. really cool. I think this is one of. those moments where I feel uh. >> yeah, like just so lucky that I get to. um that some of this job has ended up.

like this, like getting to talk to. people that uh that yeah, some people. would love to sit down with, you know. Um so, thanks so much, man. I appreciate. it. You have uh you just had you had a. pretty decent run at the CAS this year. >> Yeah, it was a a you know, I new artist. of the year. Yes, I was nominated for. new artist of the year, which blew my. mind. Um, >> and [clears throat] did you win a Red. Clay Strays one who? >> Uh, Zack Top won. Zack top. >> Very welld deserved. Um, that man has. had a big year and um, I'm a big fan of.

his and I was very happy for him and I. was really rooting for everybody. Um, but myself, I didn't really think I even. had a a prayers chance in hell of. winning. But I was just like, honestly, being nominated was a huge win for me. because, >> you know, I wasn't supposed to be there. on paper, you know, like there's a lot. of there's a lot of things that like I. contradict. And um, so just being there, you know, it meant a lot just to be out.

there. And it was really wild when I. remember when they said my name and like. it didn't feel like I was like that's. somebody else. >> Oh yeah. >> That's not me. That's like a. >> Oh, for sure. Well, do you think of. yourself as country music? [snorts]. >> Um I do. Yeah. Um I am a country boy. I. grew up in the country. Um so I am very. country just by um by culture. >> Um. >> and I cannot help but write country. songs. I I grew up listening to country.

music and classic rock. I grew up in. body shops and it was all classic rock. and country music, uh, old school and. '90s. >> And so that was kind of my pedigree, my. listening pedigree. Um, and then I I. grew up very country, very agrarian, um, kind of hunting for our own food and I. ate a lot of squirrels growing up and, uh, rabbits and, um, yeah, we just grew. up very country. wasn't trendy at all. either. It was like just a means of.

survival. My dad was raising three kids. on his own. And so he just went out and. killed food. It was a lot cheaper than. buying it at the grocery store. Like you. know, one slug, one deer slug could feed. you for like 3 months. So like that's. the way he looked at it. >> Oh, there's a beautiful group right. there. You guys kids, huh? >> That's my dad and his. >> his three little ones. And that's that's. me at uh. >> That's you on the bottom left there. Kind of in the middle. Yeah. In the. middle. Yeah. >> And who's that dime on his lap? Huh? And. I mean that respectfully since a child.

[laughter]. >> Who's that beautiful young lady? >> Yeah, that's my little sister, Lacy Jay. >> Lacy J. >> Lacy J. Yeah. Named after Lacy J. Dalton, another country singer. And um. but yeah, she's his little girl. And um. yeah, she is she is beautiful. Um and. she's a beautiful person in general. She's really kept our whole family. Like. me and my brother right there, we're. like Irish twins. We're only like a year. and a few months apart. So like we were.

uh we grew up beating the hell out of. each other. We were both boxers. My dad. right there in this picture, he had just. won, you know, the Golden Gloves for. like the third or fourth time in a row. Uh and you know, he was probably just. running over to like Mills or somewhere. at Walmart and grabbing this picture. real quick. So just so like just that. there's proof that we existed and proof. that he did this and uh I always find it. wild that he had time to even snip snap. that picture amidst his life that was so.

crazy at the time. >> And for a dad to put that together that. didn't ins you know that wasn't really. the dad world. So he was a single dad. raising you guys. >> Yeah. He was driving a bus in the. morning and then working at a body shop. and training to be a boxer. Head he was. wanting to be a pro boxer, but a lot of. things, you know, he had to really kind. of focus on being a dad and kind of had. to put his boxing career cuz he really. had a very promising career ahead of. him. And. >> so a lot of my dreams I live kind of,

you know, for him and myself, but cuz he. put a lot of his dreams on the back. burner to raise me like and but he also. created me. So like he like he kind of. had to do that if you know like so but. you know a lot of people don't take that. responsibility and uh when I see that. picture. >> uh I have like a like you said a memory. um. >> well he either got the he's got great. dimples or somebody caught him with two. good. >> No yeah he's got great dimples. He does. He has the same ones. And uh but yeah, I.

see that guy right there. And about a. year from that picture, he would have. been curling my little sister's hair and. getting her ready for kindergarten. And. um and even though his eyes were swollen. shut from sparring the night before, I. have like distinct memories of him like. getting her ready for school. >> And being like a a dad to a very young. little girl like and like you know. crimping her hair and curling it and. >> um you know being. a dad but also doing feminine things.

like because there was no one to do the. feminine things. So he was like, "I got. to be dad." And he was really good and. he knew how to do the dude the dad dude. part. Like he had me and my brother. boxing every night. And we were hunting. and fishing and doing all the dude. things. >> But he had also had to be a dad to a. little girl. That was like the light of. his life. And wow, that was like quite. the responsibility. And I look back on. that and I I have like like I said just. such a distinct memory of him curling. her hair like while morning cartoons are.

playing right before we got on the. school bus. >> And uh yeah, he was quite the dude. >> What was his name? >> Steven Wilson. >> Oh, he was senior. >> Yes. >> You just never know. Sometimes they'll. throw a junior on somebody just cuz they. don't know what's going on. >> Yeah. >> You know, or they're just a NASCAR fan. They'll tack it on the back of their. kid's name. >> Pick the like a donkey tail. They just. put it on there like a junior. >> Like Yeah. will pin the tail on this. child, you know. >> No, I'm very much a junior. Um it's very. much a thing in boxing especially like.

you know I um I joke around that you. know my. you know my dad um. you know he was he was named after a. martyr in the Bible like my grandmother. named him after a guy that was um had. rocks thrown at him until he died in the. Bible. >> Mhm. >> Steven with a ph by the way. And um. which makes a lot of sense cuz I'm. pretty sure my dad was stoned when I was. born. That's the joke. And. >> oh the pH level of his brain was. probably weed probably then. It might.

have been plus 40 then. Depends on if he. was some on some serious gas or not. >> He did like perhaps the. >> Oh, you had to back then. >> The country cabbage. >> The story of Steven from the Bible. Steven the first Christian martyr. Oh, the first Christian martyr was stoned to. death outside Jerusalem for his faith as. described in Acts seven of the Bible. his executioners, including a young. Saul, threw rocks at him after he. testified about Jesus. Um, >> yep. >> Why did Saul not want him to testify? Did he not believe him or did he just. not want him sharing the truth?

>> Well, Saul at the time, this is pre. Paul. Um, because Saul turned into Paul. once he saw Christ, like the the spirit. of Christ appeared before him, and. that's when he became Paul. But at that. point, Saul was very much like a figure. of um of the of the Jewish religion. Like he was a very high ranking. >> um Jewish official. So like um he was. kind of, you know, like a high-ranking. individual. And so he was really.

>> in in his mind at that time probably. just doing his job, you know, not really. knowing why he was doing it. But then. >> he um you know, he he had a very much a. come to Jesus moment. No, no pun. intended. And that's when he became Paul. and he wrote literally probably. twothirds of the the New Testament. >> or at least a lot of it. Um. >> half of it at least. >> This says here it says um and we use. perplexity AI and um it says before his. conversion Saul was a zealous fer. phariseic Jew who believe.

>> Pharisee was was a zealous Pharisee who. believed followers of Jesus were. dangerous heretics. So from his. perspective, Steven's preaching against. their rejection of Jesus and his. criticism of their misuse of the temple. was blasphemous and deserved death under. the understanding of the law. That zeal. led him to participate by giving. approval and overseeing the execution, which he later remembered with deep. sorrow when he became the Apostle Paul. Wow. >> Yeah. >> Gosh, dude. That's that I mean that's. got to be a lot to carry because if. Stephen uh was the first Christian.

martyr and you had him stoned because. your faith wasn't there yet and then to. look back through a different. perspective. >> not much longer after that for him to be. like oh now I'm preaching the same. gospel. >> without rocks being thrown at me and now. that's a that has to be a a quite the. thing to come to terms with and I think. that's what motivated him to write, you. know, so many um epistles of the New.

Testament and became [clears throat]. such a huge figure of the New Testament. There's a lot of books that they believe. were written by Paul, like the book of. Hebrews that there's like no author, but. they believe even he wrote like books. that nobody has any author to like they. just they can identify his style of. writing and be like it had to be Paul. >> Wow. So yeah, >> people love your style of writing, man. Speaking of that, >> thank you. I grew up very religious. That's why I talk about I grew up in a. Pentecostal Nazarene kind of church. A.

lot of holy rolling and I read a lot of. the Bible growing up. >> Yeah, I just started going to a Bible. study. This is the first time I've ever. been to a Bible study in my life. And. so, um, it's been interesting to start. to just learn about different characters. from the Bible and just different. stories and stuff. So, uh, yeah, I'm. just glad that we even got to talk about. that. And, yeah, and that that's how. your father was named from Steven. I. didn't know that story and now I. remember it. >> Yeah. So that's pretty cool. Um, what. was that? Yeah, the church you went to. Uh, cuz you're from the Midwest. You're. from Indiana. >> Yeah, I'm from where? I'm from southern.

Indiana. Kentucky, they call that area. like just north of Louisville, Kentucky. Just close to where Trevan's from. And. um. >> Okay. >> I would say that's where the Midwest and. the South kind of chess bump or shake. hands. It is literally a collision of. two cultures. So people have southern. accents and watch NASCAR, but they also. put noodles in their chili. Yeah. >> Which is a very Midwestern thing. So. yeah, there it is. Jackson County, Indiana, right there in this southern. part. >> Oh, yeah. The Midwest, they'll starch up.

a protein in a second. They don't give a. dang, brother. They'll put a starch. right in the middle of a protein. >> That's how they are there. They love. that. I mean, I would. >> long winters it gets cold. You need them. starches. >> Oh, yeah. I would grow I mean, I would. go We used to go to the AC. It was an. apostolic Christian church with my. grandparents um and some of their. neighbors and it was in uh Illinois like. in pretty much southern Illinois. >> and that was just part of the culture. like people would eat their dessert at. the beginning of dinner sometimes so. they made sure they got their dessert in. like it was just kind some of that.

>> culture you don't want to miss that get. too full getting too excited on mashed. potatoes and they're like damn I ain't. got nothing. >> it was almost a shame if you couldn't. make if you didn't have space available. in your body. >> for a beautiful dessert somebody had. made. You almost felt a bit ashamed in a. way. >> Yeah. And you should be like, think how. much work was put into that cobbler. compared to those mashed potatoes. Like. you. >> Yeah. >> You ate the like the easy stuff. >> Oh, and sometimes you'd have somebody, you know, you'd have such skilled labor. in that or you'd have a real cobbler.

making the cobbler. You'd have a damn. shoelace going through a uh going. through a peach, you know? >> You'd be in there. >> Bootlace cobbler. >> Yeah. You'd find Yeah. You'd find half a. soul in uh you know, you'd be like, "Oh, is this is this crust or is this a uh. you know, part of an 11 and a half?". >> Yeah. What is this cobbler? Soulless. >> Yeah. Like, no, not so much. He's got. real real heels in the corner. >> You know, it was just uh but there was. so much value. I remember in my. grandmother's town on cooking and on.

having people over for meals. Um just. that Midwestern culture, you know, on. hard work. >> Uh and religion was a big part of it. you know, even their neighbors, if my. grandparents couldn't take us to church, their neighbors would offer, we'll take. them to church, you know, and we go and. um and just get to see what some of the. different churches were like. And that. was one of the bigger religions in the. area was apostolic Christian over there. >> You see any exorcisms or any speaking in. tongues or movements of the spirit? >> Let me think. No, they had good donuts. They braided their hair. The women uh.

did like one big braid. They didn't show. a lot. You know, it was very kind of. covered up with some of the female. culture. They braid their donuts. >> Uh they did have those one. >> What is that one that's braided? >> I don't know. It's It's I don't know. what it's called. I don't love it. >> I don't either. Yeah. >> It's too much bread and I don't think. there's filling in it. You think there. is when you're a kid. >> It's very deceiving. Yeah. Twisted. donut. No, there's a word for it. >> And um. >> it's. Krelller was one that I loved, but a I.

don't think this was a Krelller. Well, krell often made from show pastry, French krelller or yeisto with a. distinctive twisted shape. Well, maybe. it was a krelller. >> Yeah, >> maybe it was. But yeah, >> thinking of something else, though. >> It looked good as a kid, but it was it. was deceiving. >> It was always like, "Oh, I want that.". And then you would eat it and you be. like, "Man, trash. I should have went. with that Bavarian cream.". >> Yeah. Or [clears throat] I should have. went with the one with the frosting on. it, you know. Um, but we had a beautiful. time. Yeah. I didn't meet any uh there. was no seancery really. I do remember.

there was a mentally handicapped fellow. who said he could drive and he was a. driver's ed instructor and he wasn't. He. was just uh you know and some people. believe he was mentally handicapped. Some people were like he's possessed by. the devil. I'm like well he's not. possessed by like a devil who just you. know um is sitting around just picking. his nose and just you know. >> he was [clears throat] just a little bit. off this dude named Brandon and he was. awesome actually. >> Um he was kind of this special guy. between an adult and a kid and he never. left that zone. >> you know. So, there was something kind. of very approachable to him about kids.

Uh because he was bigger than us, but he. was just like us. >> And he uh he he taught me how to he said. he could drive and we drove right into a. snowbank and the police came and. everything. >> But it was just exciting though. >> He was he was a liar. >> Yeah, he he was. >> a good place for for him to be at. church. He. >> he was a Bears fan. I think it was a. tough time for everybody. Um, >> that's that's I mean I got to say I I. saw quite a few demonp possessed. Brandons where I grew up. I saw a lot of. Brandons get demons cast out of them.

>> really. So you would see that at your. church? >> Yeah. >> And what was that kind of like like cuz. some some places that's a part of a. culture and I believe that I believe in. that type of stuff. Do you believe in. it? >> I do. Uh you know I have a you know that. I've tried to deconstruct a lot of that. through because I have a science. background. kind of had to really try to. understand a lot of that and understand. what is real and what is not. But there. was a lot of it that was 100% real and.

there was a lot of it that was 100% not. >> And uh I you know I believe there's. theatrics but I also believe you know. God is everywhere and I believe God did. show up in those places just like God. will show up in any place. Um, but yeah, I did see a lot of, you know, grown ass. drywall dudes get like demons cast out. of them before lunch and I'd be like. sitting there with half a Pop-Tart in my. stomach watching this dude literally. like throwing dudes around and like.

exhibiting some superhuman strength. >> Oh, they're popping the tart right out. of that dude. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? That's the. original Pop-Tart. Dude, he's a damn. exorcist. >> Yeah. He just [laughter] he created the. original Pop-Tart. That cherry flavored. Pop-Tart was from a demon exorcism. That's why it's red. >> Yeah. You just know they could have gone. with a lot darker flavors, but they were. like, "Let's make this available to. [laughter] children." But dude, a. pop-tarts and exorcism. [ __ ] I'm I am. there, dude. I'll sit on your lap. >> Speaking in tongues. Um I actually went. uh we you know some, you know, in our.

town like an evangelist could like show. up to your church and like a traveling. evangelist and be like, "We're having. revival here this week. Literally, the. church would shut down and be like, "We're having revival, y'all. Uh, this. is what we're doing." And the whole week. would be a revival just cuz this dude. showed up and said, "God told me to have. a revival here.". >> And they would have a huge like big tent. revival. And no way. >> Absolutely. >> And it's always been my dream to be a. part of something like that. Leap of. Faith was my favorite movie growing up. >> Dude, that movie changed it. It's one of.

the greatest movies ever made. Literally. changed my life. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad. you know about that movie. Like very few. people I've I've been able to talk to. about that movie cuz it had one of the. most profound impacts on me. >> really. >> as a kid just because of how I grew up. and and the music business and seeing. performance and theatrics and you know. where is God and where isn't God and uh. that movie is just brilliantly done but. I remember I went up this dude showed up. and uh he said tonight everybody's.

getting slain in the spirit you come up. you're getting slain and I don't know if. you know what slain means like you you. stand up there and the dude hit you and. you fall down and you're just out for. however long. >> Mhm. >> And um every [clears throat] everybody. lined up and I was like I'm getting. slain tonight. I've never been. >> That's a freaking religious perk a set. right there. >> Yeah. I would I would wanted it bad and. uh he just knocking people over left and. right. Boom boom boom. I'd seen him go. down. I was like he's coming to me. >> No way. >> He got to me and he started speaking in.

tongues and I remember he tapped me. right in the forehead. Boom. Like that. And I was like, that was that was kind of hard. And I. was like training for the Golden Gloves. at that time. So I was like a little bit. like what's up? Like he just like hit me. right in the forehead with his fingers. >> Yeah. >> And then he started, you know, it didn't. work. Like it didn't take. >> And so he did it again even harder and I. was like kind of like mad about it at. that point because it actually kind of. hurt. I was like, is this dude trying to. knock me out? >> Yeah. >> Or like is he trying to slay me in the. spirit? And anyway, he he just.

>> Yeah. Let's look at the judges cards. >> and I'm just like getting hit in the. forehead by him and then he just moved. on. It was one of the most heartbreaking. things. He went to the next guy, knocked. him out. Next guy down. >> Were you being defiant, do you think? >> I don't know. I thought like, man, I. guess I don't believe uh am I did I like. snap out of it? Was I, you know, was I. not in the moment? I didn't I didn't. really know what to think cuz I was like. a 19-year-old kid just trying to feel. God and try to get closer to God. And. everybody seemed to be doing that. And.

what was wild is like he knocked. everybody out and there was all these. bodies all over the floor, people like. putting modesty cloths all over them and. stuff and and they're just out there. asleep. So I had to like walk all over. all these bodies to get back to my. >> You're like, "Oh, >> yeah. To my. >> It's kind of embarrassing. It's almost a. walk of shame at church.". >> It was the most shameful walk I've ever. taken at church. >> I know. I guess I'm not. >> I guess I'm not. And I What really made. me laugh or at least kind of helped. break me out of. >> missing the spirit? Yeah. I remember.

thinking like what if I step on cuz. everybody had their hands out just kind. of laid down what if I step on someone's. hand will like snap them out of it and. they'd be like ah and then they'll go. back in or would they be out like oh you. stepped on my hand and now I'm no longer. slain. I was like how did. >> or like Steven the center you know or. Steven Wilson Jr. who can't even get the. dark arts exercised out of him he's over. here waking up people who are doing well. >> breaking fingers with his with his. steeltoed boots shamefully walking back. to his pew. I never thought about the.

walk of shame at church. >> What What is a um what is a modesty. cloth? >> Um well, like sometimes a lady would get. slain and she's wearing a skirt, you. know, it's a Pentecostal church and they. they cover and make sure like you know. >> Oh, that's a lot of skirt, dude. We used. to call them skirts because they were so. long, you know, and some of them would. be actual curtains that they had taken. off of a window somewhere. Some of them. you'd even see like that stick, you. know, the stick that's on the edge of a. curtain that you can like if you turn. it'll go up. Some of you been [laughter]. Yeah,

>> you're just sitting over there. But. dude, >> they got the draw string. >> Yeah, if you're trying to get [laughter]. a You got to spin that thing for a long. blinds underneath. >> Yeah, they got blinds. Those vertical. blinds under there. Yeah, it cure you. from blindness. That's. >> Dude, that's pretty funny, dude. Thinking about something like that. Thinking about something that's funny. together with somebody is something. that's awesome, dude. Yeah. Yeah. It was. like it helped me get through it like. the cuz like you said there was a. shamefulness to it but it actually was. kind of funny when I. >> So they thy blanket on them. >> There's a modesty cloth.

>> That's good for that. >> Yeah. >> Good for that. That at least Yeah. Because there's some guys some lurkers. that would just be up there. >> Yeah. You never know. And and like like. I said in that those churches like. nothing you didn't even show below the. knee. So like if if your skirt went. started to show some knee, they better. get a cloth over that. You can't be. seeing that kneecap. Oh yeah, boy. Those. Oh. >> Oh, I remember being young and just God. I was kind of like a. I guess like a little bit of a peeping. tom or whatever. I was like visually.

stimulated I called it and had a step. stool. >> But um I remember for Christmas one year. I wanted a ladder. My mom's like, "What. do you want a ladder for? Like why do. you want this little ladder?" And I. wanted to go. I'd go watch people and. just watch in their houses. And I wasn't. always looking for perverse stuff. I was. just looking. I liked watching people. live, right? Like I think I hated being. at our house. It was like it was like uh. it wasn't fun. It was just painful kind. of a lot. And it was like always like.

aggressive and um defensive. >> Like the second you were around, you had. to be defensive. Uh, and so I would go. watch just other people live, like watch. somebody just be, you know, or just. watch some dad sit there in a chair, some mom make something or some kid. just, you know, like usually was like. the living room or something. I wasn't. getting real weird, but but I love that. kind of stuff, man. I love just kind of. absorbing how other people operated. >> Yeah. >> Uh, that kind of stuff was interesting. >> You're a OG people watcher.

>> Yeah. I was a bit of a Yeah. >> I mean, that's I mean, if. >> get your ladder together, you know? Yeah. But get half a pop-tart in you and. get over there and just see what the. >> I find comedians are and songwriters in. general are just like they're people. watchers and then they watch so much. people that they end up these narratives. start to show up. >> and uh so you were probably just. harnessing your skills for what was to. come. >> Yeah. I think sometimes Yeah. You look. back in your life and you're like, "Oh,

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you're living out some of your dad's. dreams. >> Um. >> and I I find that to be interesting that. uh that we feel like that as sons or. that some sons feel that way. >> Yeah. And then also that some dads will. make sacrifices like you're saying like. you know and it wasn't like it was his. choice that he made you know it wasn't. like a sacrifice but sometimes even with. choices then come sacrifices that you. don't see and then you have to make. another choice then as to what do I do. here.

>> um but that like by giving by giving. birth to a son by having an offspring. you were creating something that can go. the next leg almost like it's a uh. >> one of those races where they pass the. baton. What is that called? >> Yeah I think a baton race. >> Yeah, a baton race. And yeah, so yeah, it's not hard. It's [laughter] not as. hard as it seems. >> I'm not sure. It may not be called that. It may be some something. way more complex. There it is. A baton a. relay race. Yeah, >> baton race. Uh relay race. Um but it's. like I can't this is as far as I can.

get. And let me put this into you with. But then it's interesting as the next. runner, as the next generation is, >> wow, >> what do I like? How much do I owe to. this previous generation to carry on. their dream? Do I owe anything? you. know, what does it mean to be a son? Like all those things kind of were. popping into my head as you were saying. that. Wow. A generational relay race is. not something I've put, you know, to. thought regarding all that, but that. that is very a very accurate um. observation there because you when you.

see a relay race like the first runner. or whatever the runner before you or the. runners before you like dictate how fast. you're going to run and they dictate. your position in the in the race. >> Yeah. So like if they're running with. everything they got, well then you're. only like doing a disservice to their. effort by not running with everything. you got, >> right? >> And so yeah, that that baton becomes. something bigger than just this thing. you're holding in your hand. It's like. the the sum of all their efforts. Yeah.

>> And uh you know Yeah. I think we used to. hear a lot more I think when families. and this is a hypo hypothetical but when. families seemed closer and uh and we. needed low more entertainment from our. fathers and forefathers and we got lore. passed down and family history when. there was more storytelling when you. couldn't get as much storytelling from. like phones and television and stuff as. we can in the past few generations but. when it came from like those uh the. predecessors of ours and our forefathers. and mothers that that kind of stuff It.

like beat inside of us like a drum, you. know. Um. >> Yeah. What what kind of did you feel a. pressure like um and did something had. your father passed away? >> Yeah, he passed away 7 years ago at the. age of 59 and. um it happened. Yeah, he was very young. and um it was a sudden thing. It was. >> was he sick? >> Yeah. Well, he had like this pulmonary. uh fibrosis thing that was starting, but. he ended up dying of a pulmonary like.

embolism, like a a blood clot in his. lungs. And um so, um yeah, it was it was. a very sudden thing that I don't think. anybody really expected. And um. >> he was living in Indiana. >> He was living in southern Indiana. And. um he was, you know, he was, you know, doing quite well. And and like, you. know, everything kind of changed in. about six months. And then um he he you. know suddenly this this embolism showed. up and I tried to get there cuz he it.

was his his body was like shutting down. and uh. >> what do you mean? So an embolism. Can. you bring it up just so I know Trevan? Sorry to interrupt you Stephen. >> No I don't. >> I'm just like sometimes I I've let. information fly and I don't know what it. is. An embolism. A pulmonary embolism is. a blood clot that travels to and blocks. an artery in the lungs, cutting off. normal blood flow and oxygen exchange. and creating a potentially. life-threatening emergency. So, had this. been happening for a while and then it. got bad? >> Yeah. And uh so he had had some.

obviously some things going on that he. never knew was happening and um and then. yeah it got to that life-threatening. emergency point and then there is a. point where they can only do so much and. um and you know he was a bit of a cowboy. and you know those kind of classic dudes. that don't want to go to the doctor and. I'll tough it out kind of thing. I'm. sure there was a lot of that mentality. going into it. Also, there was poor. health care, you know, that's he was a a. victim of the American health care.

system, too, in that regard. I won't get. into all that, but um but yeah, like. that was that was a big part of it. Um. >> we tal we've talked about that a lot. over the years. It's a nightmare and the. stress they put people through trying to. deal with their own taking care of. themselves. It's like. >> Yeah, >> it's a nightmare. >> Especially at his age at 59, he was. starting to feel like uh you're just. like a forgotten human. And they don't, you know, like, >> you know, they don't really want to take. care of you. They want to do everything. but that. Like you got to fight tooth.

and nail to take care of yourself in. that, at least where he was at that. time. And uh yeah, I I got a a really um. panicked call from my sister that. morning said, "You need to get here like. now. Like dad is very sick and we don't. know what's happening." And they rushed. him to the emergency room. And. um I jumped in my car and sped up there. and I said goodbye to him in the middle. of Kentucky on the side of I65 on an.

iPhone 8 on the side of a highway. And. um that was. >> pulled over to make it quieter. >> Yeah. And just so I didn't lose signal. I was so worried that cuz you know the. middle of Kentucky is the middle of. nowhere and like what if I drop the call. like Yeah. And um you know there was so. I just pulled over just I mean it was. insane. I just. >> the the sound of like semiis flying by. me at like 90 miles an hour but. literally being in a I felt like I was. in a bubble like not like the world was.

like the world stopped around me in that. little car. Like a semi could have taken. the side of that car off. I wouldn't. even had known it or you know I would. have just I was in a state of absolute. shock and and horror. It was a very. traumatizing experience. But. >> And you were on a FaceTime call? >> No, it was just on a video or a normal. phone call. Um. >> was he able to speak to you? >> He was. And he uh. >> Did he know that it could be like his. last moment? He knew he knew he was.

dead. >> Boing you by asking this? >> No. I I talk about it a lot on stage. I. kind of relive it every night. And um. that's been a a challenge for me like. mentally kind of but it's been but it's. also been like the beautiful part of. unpacking trauma and grief cuz you know. I'm not like our our music like really. um it it finds the grieving and I think. it's it's important for me to grieve as. well. Um like I I I I go through grief.

every night and uh. >> but you know um he was such a gangster. in that moment. He knew he had maybe 90. seconds left on this earth. He knew he. was going not just going but going fast. He even told me he's like I'm I'm going. Stephen. And uh. um sorry. Um but yeah, he was uh he was so calm. about it. Um he said everything's going. to be okay. >> Oh,

>> that was his first thing he said. Like. such a dad thing to say. And um and he. said, "Write a good song for me, Stephen." And he said, "I love you. I. love you. I love you. I love you." Four. times. >> And. >> he wanted you to know for sure. >> Yeah. Like he wanted there to be no. doubt. And uh [clears throat] so I say. it more than once all the time now cuz I. I I from that experience I kind of. realize that people are counting and uh. I I was counting and um and it was weird.

like on that last I love you. It's. almost like his voice got quieter like. he was literally being pulled like God. was snatching him from the universe in. that last I love you. >> Wow. >> And he was gone 30 seconds later. >> And uh and that was it. I was the last. person he spoke to and um I'm really. grateful that I got to speak to him and. in that moment in that car um. I I I was so angry at God. I was so.

angry at him even my dad. I was like, "How dare you die on me. >> like this?" Like. >> like that's it wasn't supposed to. happen. Like none of it was supposed to. happen like that. Like I was under the. impression he was invincible first of. all and he was just so young and he was. just such a. you know just such a lively such a. bright light. >> So it just it didn't seem possible and. >> even to people in my hometown they were.

in disbelief when he died. Like it was. like cuz his his life force was so big. that like people were in denial. I was. like no it's impossible. There's no way. he could be dead. >> Like and I was like no he he really is. And it was a a tough thing to really. come to terms with. But um with any. great reaction or any like chemical. reaction, there is a catalyst. Um. and I [snorts and clears throat] have to. say everything the reason I'm here and.

the reason I'm anywhere right now is. because of that conversation. It was u. you know you have a product and a. reactant and then there's a catalyst and. um. and that that conversation is what. catalyzed my whole career. >> really. >> and uh yeah um that ride write a good. song for me Stephen was. >> um. was like a lifetime's worth of jet fuel. for me to charge across the galaxy and.

and do everything I could to try and. keep him alive. >> Oh, >> to try and um just tell the world about. him that you know. >> carry out his wish. >> Yeah. And what and what I found out is. like like carrying out his wish and um. and keeping him alive was keeping so. many other people that that other folks. have lost, other humans have lost alive. He was resurrecting other people at the.

same time. And these people were coming. to shows with this um with this bounty. of love that had no place to go. And. that's what grief is essentially. And uh. and I gave them, you know, you know, these songs have given them a a home. >> for at least maybe three and a half or. four minutes. And um. >> Oh yeah. [clears throat]. >> And that's been um that's really been. the charge of all of this. that's been. um the mission statement is um you know.

[snorts] at the very beginning was just. keep dad alive, >> keep him alive at all costs and you. [clears throat] know like kind of a. a psychotic denial for the first couple. years that he was even gone. I was like, "No, he's he's still around." And I and. a lot of times I felt them on my. shoulders like a little kid. It was. really weird. It was like this weird. reversal of. >> roles. And uh. >> well, now that he's free, he kind of. could do as he wants. You know, he could. be on your shoulders.

>> Yeah. He would show up like that. And. the reason why I play this song, Stand. by Me, it's just literally I two weeks. after he died, I was scheduled to play. this songwriter festival in Deadwood, South Dakota, and it's a you know, it's. in the Black Hills, and it's a very. spiritually charged area just in. general. >> Yeah, for sure it is. >> And the guy that runs it says, "You. don't have to play any music. I know. you're in a bad bad spot. I hadn't slept. in a week and and uh he's like just come. here and you know.

see what happens you know just be around. people like there's nothing but love for. you here and um we we know you've gone. through it and and at the end of the. festival they asked you know all the. writers and stuff there um if. [clears throat] you wanted to play a. cover what's your favorite cover that. you love and they did this big finale. and um I had been for some reason for. about a year prior to my dad's death, I'd been singing the song Stand by Me in. my living room, the exact way I play it.

now. >> It just popped in your head to come. It. just kind of came into you. >> Yeah. Like for some reason, I was like, that song has haunted me my whole life. because of the movie Stand by Me. Yeah. That's a big part of a lot of people's. That movie was huge in people's lives. for so many little moments. >> Yeah. Like I very much saw myself in the. the kid on the left, the Gordy the Gordy. Lechants. No. Um. >> Oh. Um. >> what was his name? Will Weaten like the. writer the writer that was trying to. find a voice, the nerdy little writer. kid on the left. >> Yeah. [snorts]. >> And um that song like was threaded so.

brilliantly throughout that film and. it's obviously the title but um because. of that movie which is also a Stephen. King story. That movie is based off a. Stephen King nolla called The Body. So, you know, it was obviously a very. haunting and dark theme, but it, you. know, that song really haunted me. because of that movie. And um I just. started playing it. I was like trying to. I don't know, kind of deconstruct it, try to process it in a different way. And um when my dad died, fast forward to.

Deadwood, all I could play was Stand by. Me. Wow. And um I started playing it. >> and I'd really never played it for. anybody like that. And the whole place. like just went crazy like and at that. point I was not an artist. I I just quit. my job as a scientist. I just I've been. a published writer for maybe two years. at that point just trying to get other. artists to sing my songs. And I never. really saw myself as an artist even.

though my dad did. Like he would always. be like why don't you just sing these. songs? You sound great singing them. But. I would always argue with him like no I. don't do that. I write them. Someone. else sings them. But when I went up. there to sing Stand by Me, um I swear to. God he was like on my shoulders like a. little kid. >> And I got so addicted to that feeling. again. Um like. >> cuz he he I mean he was there. He showed. up and I I I truly believe he showed up. at Bridgestone at the Cas. Like he he.

did he showed up that night and um. >> Oh, I bet he was so proud of you. Do you. feel like he's proud of you? >> Uh yeah, I think so. Yeah, he was he was. so proud of me before he died, before. any of this happened. And um I think. yeah, he Yeah, he would be very proud. Um I've been trying to make him proud my. whole life. But. >> what did he said? Write a song for me or. make us what did he say? Sorry leaking. over here. >> No, man. I leak all the time. I. >> I Yeah, dude. I listen to stuff that.

makes me cry all the time because I. think I'm just full of tears and I got. to get these [ __ ] out even though I'm. dehydrated half the time. So, I'm like, I don't even know what's going on here, dude. >> No, it's good for you. Like, I When my. dad died, I swear all I did was cry for. two years. I like it's all I did. Um, you got to get it out. If you have if. you can find the tears, find them. Like. right now, I I can't find them. >> Yeah. >> I mean, even though I I I get emotional, don't get me wrong, but. >> Yeah. Sometimes you have tears and. sometimes you don't. It's like almost. like seasons, you know? It's almost like.

an ocean. And sometimes it comes up on. the shore and sometimes it's out to sea, you know, even though it's, you know, it. lives, right? >> Yeah. >> So it's like um and especially I think. people that have had like a lot of. things in their life that have happened. that haven't been processed. >> um. you know it takes a long time and I. think I've gotten grateful in my life. over over over time where there if I. find something that helps me process. I'll sit there and process it. My. brother says a lot of times he's like, "Yeah, getting rid of grief and like.

like trauma, like that old stuff." And. people use trauma as a buzz word, but. getting rid of grief and stuff from the. past. He's like, "It's like taking. pennies out of a bathtub one at a time.". He's like, you know, it just it takes a. long time and it's slow and it's just. kind of arduous work. >> But, uh, but you just be grateful that. that it can kind of happen over time. Um, what he said, "Make a good song for. me. >> Write a good song for me. >> Write a good song for me.". >> Yeah. cuz he knew that's what I was. that's all I could think about. And. >> that's the baton, man. That's the baton.

>> Yeah. He used to come to my like all my. shows when I say shows like playing for. seven people at writers round. >> or like and he came to the Bluebird. Cafe. I remember like had his giant You. remember when they had those giant. phones that were like the size of. laptops, >> you know? >> Oh, those T-Mobile Sidekicks. Yeah, baby. Them [ __ ] was beautiful. >> Yeah. He had one of those bad boys and. he would just hold it up and record the. whole show at the He used to drive me. crazy and. >> oh dude there's nothing crazier than. watching like a boomer kind of like.

record something or even just somebody. from a generation of both just. [clears throat] we went to the UFC. fights the other day and some guy was. recorded every single fight. I'm like he. had a front row seat. >> and he was recording and there was a TV. right next to him playing the fights. I'm like you can just go home and watch. Like I just didn't understand what was. going on. Yeah. >> But the fact that he was there and that. he cared so much about it and that he. loved watching you do it. >> Yeah. I um there was this one song. that's on the record called I'm a song. >> Oh yeah. >> And he he watched me play that for the.

first time at Bluebird Cafe. I just. written that like that week. >> Right over here. >> Yeah. Bluebird Cafe. And. >> he had his gigant gigantic phone. I'll. never forget. And I was like, "Dad, please put your phone down." But he. recorded that whole song and then he. called me um like a you know a week. later kept talking about that song and. um and about a month before he died his. father's day weekend I came up to see. him and we went to a tractor pull and. then we went home and watched some.

fights and u and he goes, "Hey Stephen, you you know that song you played at the. Bluebird like a month ago? It's called. I'm a song." And I was like, whoa, how. do you even know that? Like I I, you. know, because I was in that point of. like writing, you know, 200 songs a. year. I was writing, you [clears throat]. know, 10 songs a week. So like a month. ago, like that I'm a song was like 50. songs ago. So I was like, >> "Uh, oh yeah, yeah, I know that." And. he's like, "Yeah, you played at the. Bluebird Cafe." And uh he's like,

"That's that's my favorite song." And I. was like, "Oh, thank you, Dad." sudden. you're like I thought he meant like it's. my favorite song of his favorite song of. mine and uh he was like no you listen to. me that's my favorite song ever. >> wow and uh I was like how are you even. listening to it he'd been listening to. me play it on the bluebird at the. bluebird on his gigantic T-Mobile. T-Mobile whatever that thing is and uh. [laughter] and and that's how he was he. was he was actually my first fan and um.

he was the you Oh, he he he would. breathe so much life into me. He he. believed in me so much more than I ever. believed in myself. And. >> and I remember him saying, "You should. sing that song." And um when he died, I. I sang it at his funeral. >> Oh. >> And uh it was one of the hardest songs. I've ever sang. But in that moment, like. that was [sighs and gasps]. that was when, you know, I knew things.

were about to change. And um but yeah, and that song has helped so many people. And it's um I don't know, it's been a. bit of a thesis statement for me. And so. when he said, "Write a good song for. me," he knew I he knew I had already. written one, at least in his eyes, cuz. it was his favorite song ever. So he. knew at least he had proof on his phone. that I was capable of writing something. great. And um he I guess his last charge.

was to please keep going and don't stop. And as a you know. >> it's got to feel good for him to be like. even in a moment like I mean that's. crazy to say this. What am I talking. about? >> But in a moment of leaving the earth to. know that. you have a son or someone who can. who you know you've created that's. capable. You know you have a child that. you believe is capable. I wonder what. you know what I'm saying or something. like that. No. Yeah. And my other. siblings are also very capable. He's.

very proud of all of us equally. But I. think he he knew something about me was. different. Very young. I was a very. quiet kid, a very nerdy kid. I was I had. his name and his eyes, but you know, outside of that, we were so different. So he he I think he just knew I was. going to do something different. He just. came. >> probably intrigued, I bet. >> Yeah. And I like picked up guitar and. taught myself and he was like just. always mesmerized by like my musical. ability cuz it seemed like magic to him.

because it it was it was god-given. It. like I nobody taught me how to do this. >> Really? >> Yeah. I know. >> Oh, you just picked it up and started. playing. >> Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. I learned. some tablete and and um but you know I I. sucked real bad then. But that was. >> This is you right here. Yeah, that's. probably like a week after I got my. first guitar. And if that even a couple. days,

I. >> think we're watching this family. Yep. Yeah, that's a lithium. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Who is that? Is that your dad now? >> No. Just some random old dude. And this. is after my dad had passed away. Like. none of this stuff, like all my whole. music, none. I didn't have any music out. when he was alive. >> Oh, okay. So, they're just packaging. this all up. >> Yeah. This is all like old VHS VHS. footage from when I was a kid. That's me. getting my first guitar for my 16th.

birthday. Even though I look like I'm. 12. >> Look how hot. Look. Go back. Look. Hold on. Yeah. Hold on. Right a. little more. Right there. >> Look how h You can see though how happy. and cool that you can see for a second. See if you can catch his face a second. earlier. Maybe a second later. >> It was. >> You can see right there. You can just. see how happy he is, you know? That's. cool, dude. >> Thank you. >> I'm going to be cool now. >> Oh, it's so fun, dude. >> Yeah. I might actually have, you know, I. might actually be able to talk to a girl. now. >> Oh, dude. Yeah. At least if you walk up.

with a guitar, at least I can just like, hey, at least then they'll be like, "Hey, what what do you do?" You know. what I'm saying? At least you have some. sort of similence instead of hiding. putting hair in your eyes and hiding. behind it. >> That's what I did. I said nothing to. nobody. >> Oh, dude. That was most of my childhood. when I when I was growing up. I was. thinking about what do you um what are. the responsibilities of a son? You know, people don't think about that a lot. I. think about what do my parents owe me a. lot as a kid or I have probably, you. know, like my parents didn't do this or. my parents didn't do that, you know,

that's been, >> you know, or some things didn't happen. and should have happened. That's fair. But when I start to harp on the other. stuff and it gets into this like, oh, wo. is me or pity me type of thing. You. know, that can be kind of a unsafe area. to go into. Um, but the two can be. easily connected like things that yes, a. parent should do these things or those. things should be a child's life should. include these things and they don't. happen. And then well, a parent, they. don't owe you these things, but. attaching those together.

>> Um, but I never think about like what is. it? What are my responsibilities as a. son, you know, or as a child, you know. what I'm saying? you don't think that. cuz at a certain point you do have some. responsibility in it yourself, you know. >> Um. >> yeah, I mean I've I've had a lot of. thought about that and um you know I. grew up thinking the same thing as you. like maybe you know things should have. been different or um but at the same. time I I I tend to think about my. parents as children because they had me.

as children. They were like it was a. shotgun wedding. My mama was 6 months. pregnant. They were teenagers having. babies. And uh so I also think about. them like oh my gosh like I I have a lot. of sympathy for them as I I was older. But you know growing up I had you know. anger and resentment towards certain. things that I did not understand. Um but. I've kind of tried to um. you know un you know understand that you. know it's it's very like um biological.

[clears throat] um about like kind of. how fathers and sons are just children. and their parents. um in the in the in. the beginning of of your your your. father is like superhuman or he's a. superhero. Um. like humanize, demonize, and idolize is. kind of how I put it down. So in the. beginning, you idolize your father. >> Um. and you idolize everything they do. I.

remember idolizing my father, like. wanting to be a boxer just like him, wanting to do so many things like him. and I would hide in his shadow and I. idolized him my whole childhood. And. then once I got into my teen years, that's when that separation starts to. begin and you start to demonize your. parents and um and you go through this. whole demonization of your father or. your parents where and and it's actually. very biological. This is how like you. know genetic diversity was spread.

because we're a tribal species. So like. the young boy, the young man in his. reproductive years would start to. demonize the parents and get away from. the tribe and go join another tribe. >> so he can create procreate. >> So he can procreate and create genetic. diversity, >> right? Because if he procreates too. close to his own tribe, you also risk. like uh. >> Yeah. inbreeding. >> Yeah. Like the [clears throat] guy that. taught me how to drive. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> No shade Brandon. I think he was bred. properly. It was just, you know, God put.

some odd paints in his. >> [laughter]. >> in his pallet. >> We love you, Brandon. >> Yeah, we do. We do love you. And. actually, he passed away a few years. ago, and we do love you. He's a special. guy. >> Oh, man. I'm so sorry, Brandon. But, >> but yeah, and then uh as you know, I. think eventually you come back home, there's always like this prodical son. kind of moment, and that's where you. humanize your father. >> cuz that's what happened with me. Like, you know, you start off as a kid. idolizing it. You get to teenage years, those years that I, you know, he got me. that guitar, I was I was probably going. to start demonizing him soon. And um.

>> he wanted you at least have a backbeat. for it. Yeah, exactly. Something to put. all those those angsty lyrics. >> Put those put those put that anger to. [clears throat] lyrics. >> Yeah. [laughter] At least make it a bop. And then uh and then I remember when I. was 25 like I was sitting on the porch. with my dad and I just remembered I was. like, "You're just a dude.". >> Oh yeah. >> And that's when I the humanization hit. and I was like, "You're just another. dude doing the best you can." and and I. could see it in his eyes and we were. just kind of like we were you know the.

father and son dynamic was still there. but he was now a friend and something. bigger than a father. was another human. like you're saying. >> just another human. >> and that's a tough moment and it's an. interesting moment too to look at. because. >> it's almost it almost breaks down the. wars you were fighting or the whatever. you know it breaks down like a lot. >> right it breaks down the pedestal you. held this person on in a way in a way. some of it but it also breaks down if. you've been demonizing it like well who. am I fighting I'm not fighting against. you know the 20 the 32year-old dad the.

guy that I knew who like walked by me. and didn't glance or whatever your. thoughts are whatever. um whatever like you're envisioning. that's not there anymore, you know, and. it's like then what then this whole like. baton that I'm still carrying of anger. that's not even real. >> Yeah. >> So what's really happening here with me. and [clears throat] that's like a moment. you kind of have to look at yourself as. well and that's kind of painful. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was it's very much a. self-reflective moment and you kind of. start to see kind of like, man, I was a.

selfish little [ __ ] or I was, you know, maybe you were justified in certain. areas, but or yeah, at the end of the. day, they're they're just another human. doing the best they can just like you. >> And who am I going to be now? That's the. thing, too. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes I go back and I put on my. old my [gasps]. >> sometimes I go back and I'm the same. person. But more often than not these. days, I do a decent job of like, well, let me be the leader. Instead of saying, "You should have led me or you should. let me let me grow up." It's like, how.

many times do am I going to [ __ ] miss. the grow up bus, you know? Like, I'm on. it, >> but still sometimes I'll be there at the. stop in the morning and I'll be like, "No, I'mma let that [ __ ] go today.". [laughter] You know what I'm saying? I. ain't getting on that [ __ ] today. >> So, some of that's interesting and it's. interesting to look at. And you're still. just a human looking at it and trying to. figure it out. >> Yeah. Well, it's it's I think all part. of the journey and like it all it's it's. rooted in something very old. Like I. always thought like that teen angst.

thing was like something created in the. '9s or something. It's like no, this is. pre-biblical. This is this is something. that's been going on for a long time. Yeah, >> if you study primates enough and you you. uh you can really kind of see a lot of. you can learn a lot about humans by. studying primates because they're also, you know, we're technically primates, too. And. >> yeah, there's rumors. >> There's rumors. Yeah. I mean, we're all. part of the animal kingdom. Kingdom. Anameleia and we are um of the u you.

we're technically of the greater apes. That's what they call. >> What do you think happened? Do you think. um do you think we what do you think. there about evolution cuz it's so. tricky, you know? It's so like cuz we're. the only people that are out here. It. feels like suffering like this. sometimes. >> Can I take a piss and get back to this. question because this is going to this. has got an answer. >> Yeah, let's take a break and piss, man. >> With the new year upon us, sometimes you. got to think about your new moves. How. you going to do things different?

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or email them at admin. valorreoververycoaching.com. Thank you. [snorts]. There you go, brother. >> Popping into that Celsius, brother. I'll. have a little with you. >> Let's do it. >> There you go. Steven Wilson Jr. right. there, boy. >> Yeah. I remember I came to um and we. just took a bathroom break and Stephen. put on a nice sweater. >> I did. It's It's nice. It looks like my.

my grandma's curtain. So, it feels. >> Oh, yeah. dude. My grandmother. she my grandfather worked at a factory. in their town. And there was a small. town called Wyoming, Illinois. It was. real small and but it was nice when we. went there cuz it just the world kind of. made sense there a little more. It was. like a safe place to be. They had a park. right across the street and they had a. garden where like most people had. gardens where they grew like. strawberries and tomatoes. Everybody had. tomato plants, cherry tomato plants. And.

the summers the roads would bubble in. the summer from the tar. Yeah. >> And so it was like kind of crazy because. every now and then you'd somehow you'd. be an idiot at least once a year and you. would run across to the park but you. would not have your shoes on and you. would hit that road and you would. literally. you would have what we called NAACP feet. you know and it I don't know if that's a. racially charged term or not. I don't. think it is. I think it's safe but yeah. you would get you would just and but the. crazy part is once you got the NAACP.

you'd be faster at the park and that was. the craziest part too. Yeah, you got. that extra soul now. [laughter]. >> Oh, it is. That's what it was. >> Yeah. Like you got something to grip. now. Oh, you went home. My grandmother knew. >> Bio souls. >> Yeah, you were locked. >> Like you got a free pair of Nikes. >> Yeah, [laughter] you did, bro. Um but. there was so many fun things just about. being in like a small Midwestern. community, the safety of it, the bike riding, the. like um baseball cards. Dude, we would.

go to this place. >> Baseball cards, man. >> They had a dime. >> The smell of them. the shitty chewing. gum in the pack that was so stale. >> It was so gross. You'd eat it. >> I'd chew it every time. Yes. I'd be like. every time. I don't care how bad it is. >> Sometimes it would just disintegrate. >> Yeah. Somebody like break off and like. like you could you could open a box with. it. >> and [laughter] Yeah. You could, dude. >> And every card was Mark Grace. I felt. like every card was Mark Grace. >> or Sean Dunston or um Chris Sabbo. They. were all. >> Wade Bogs. >> Yes.

>> Yeah. Sabo. Gosh, man. You're dropping. heat. >> Well, dude, I mean your song uh 1994 was. like it's just one of the best pieces of. nostalgia. >> Like I remember Yeah. I remember like um. >> when I was a kid, my mom had this rug in. her room and it was like a. >> I think it was a cow. I don't know where. where she got it from or something, but. it was kind of like a prized possession. It was just like a cow skin rug. It. could have been a damn Dalmatian or. something. I don't know. It looked like. it it [laughter]. could have been a big Dalmatian. It.

could have been. >> rug. >> It could have been a great Dane and we. got swindled. But anyway, uh. she said it was a cow and uh I would lay. there and I would like put my face right. and I would inhale it and like cuz I. didn't get to spend a lot of time with. my mom, but sometimes at night like she. would put on hand cream or something and. that was like a big thing. Um, when I. was a kid, hand cream came out for. women. And so women were always just put.

I mean, God, I'd be like, "Mom, do you. love me?" And she'd be like, "Well, hold. on. Let me put this hand cream on." You. know, it was Yeah. Yeah. It was just It. she had Every woman at the time had to. have hand cream. It's like she they. couldn't even cook anymore because they. couldn't open the the the the cupboards. because they just were too they would. slip out of their hands. I think women. were just looking for an excuse to get. out of the kitchen like I can't pick up. a pot. I just. >> I'll drop it. >> I have too much hand cream. cast iron. back then and. >> it was like we can't. >> we can't afford to lose any of this. Um,

but I would lay in there and I would. like put my face on the carpet, like on. the rug, and I would inhale that smell of like. leather and uh and I would just kind of. pretend that like I lived in like a. different world or that like like we. didn't have a dad around, so I I don't. know if I'd pretend like there was like. this manly energy or just something, you. know, it would kind of like the smell. would fuel my uh imagination, >> you know, and I would just fantasize. that like we lived on like a ponder. And. Rosa or that we lived out in like New.

Mexico or Texas or something, you know, or like I don't know just that things. were different. But there was something. about when you were a kid. >> or when you were young and just putting. your face on the carpet. It was like we. used to do there there wasn't you. weren't on your phone all the time. >> and TV you couldn't just have whatever. you wanted. So you. >> you would just do kind of crazy things. >> You look under the couch just to see. what was [snorts] under there. Like. nobody does that anymore. >> Yeah. >> Like. >> Yeah. That was exciting. That was almost. like taking a vacation or whatever was.

looking under there. >> A flashlight, man. That blow your mind. >> Like, there's a whole other world under. here. Like spiders. There's like. >> Yes. You'd be curious world. You were. curious about the things you had in your. own world. And you'd ask, "Mama, what is. this for? Why do we have this?" There. was just a lot more like. >> the storytelling you needed. It was like. more prevalent, you know? And you had to. tell a story. You had to have some. value. Like we created the stories. There wasn't like the internet where you. could just go and like. >> oh share this link you know we like.

>> that's why the storytellers were so. valuable then cuz it was like oh you got. to ask him. The only way you're going to. hear this is if you ask him you know or. her and they're going to tell you about. it. And man that was the best. Do you. think um this may be uh maybe out of. place here, but um you know because I. feel like standup comedy and songwriting. is kind of our last kind of that's our. that's our you that is our storytelling. now cuz yeah like you're right people. don't pass down those stories generally.

anymore like they used to and. >> I wonder if people are craving. >> comedy and and creating song craving. songwriting in the in the same way that. you know we we used too because there. maybe is a lack of that those stories. being passed down and that. >> cuz I I feel like you know great. comedians are great storytellers and. great songwriters are great storytellers. and and that is something that our. culture is really not latching on to is.

telling stories even like a good joke. you it's hard to find somebody you know. when I was growing up there would always. be like somebody that would just have. like a thousand jokes and they weren't. comedian comedians. They weren't. professional comedians and they they. weren't wanting to be and but they just. had a myriad of jokes which are. basically stories like they would go, you know, they would infuse the jokes. into the stories. Like you wouldn't know. if they were telling the truth or not. >> Oh yeah. >> And I was like that's kind of a lost art. that you don't really see a like.

happening a lot anymore. And. >> yeah, they had good storytelling. Well, storytelling was a big thing. Well, I. think this is a is a more general way to. look at it. I think we've lost some. creativity. >> Yeah. And I think we've lost creativity. in a lot of ways. I think it's one of. the reasons why Los Angeles has. struggled in some ways because in the be. in Hollywood that Hollywood has kind of. struggled in some ways and I say this. like in the sense that it started to. feel super unccreative out there, >> right? And I don't mean to speak bad on. that, but I just think it's a note for.

uh that we've just we've we're missing. some creativity in the world. And I. think the gatekeepers of creativity are. starting to fall. So I think you are. like I think we're in a desperate place. for creativity and for authenticity. where creativity you feel like it's. there's something genuine about it. >> Yeah. >> Maybe. I don't know. >> It's a great question, man. >> I you know I think authentic is like you. said is because it's really hard to. authenticate anything anymore. Uh it's.

kind of hard to find out what is real. and and what is not. And um you know I I. I tend to authenticate things with um. emotions and experience. Like if I write. a song I I kind of have to write it from. I can't write or perform anything that I. cannot authenticate from my own. experiences and my own emotions. So. >> was it did that make it hard for you to. write songs for other people? I think. that was a big challenge for me trying.

to get other people to see the authentic. authentification of my emotions. >> and and finding that uh authenticity. within themselves perhaps and and that. alignment happening [clears throat] was. a difficult challenge and. >> and for you say you write a song you. somebody takes it or somebody accepts it. you know as a and they're going to cut. it. >> um and then you're like it doesn't. really fit that person that's a. nightmare too that you don't think about. and then it's really tough Yeah. >> Did that ever happen to you?

>> Yeah, it did. And I mean and but you. know, I think a lot of it is they. weren't able to authent a authenticate. the emotion that I that the that the. music had come from that it had. originated from. >> and that's not their fault and it's. really not mine. It was just kind of the. nature of the business. Um, but yeah, I. think you know, >> if I've had any advantage is the only. way I can create a song is is. >> is I have to authenticate it in. something truly real. I can't like I.

can't do fantasy music. I can't like I. can't be like something I can't be. Superman. I can't be a Marvel character. in my I can't. >> play something I'm not. I think it's. because there's too much of you already. who you are that I don't even think you. know it would fit. You're just a rare. foot. [laughter]. >> You know what I'm saying? So it's like a. rare foot. It's like yeah some feet it. can be like oh we'll put it in. something. It'll look good here. It'll. look good here. >> But I think when you're like no that's. that's.

>> yeah I was called different a lot as a. kid. It was not a compliment most. [laughter] of the time. It is really, but I have to say it has been an. advantage of as of late and uh like uh. being the weirdo finally helped out and. uh. >> Oh, for sure. You know, for so long. you're Clark K and you're in there just, you know, changing clothes in a phone. booth or whatever and people are like, "This guy is a pervert or whatever." And. then eventually you come out and think. some things start to fit. Um I've heard. you say I've heard you say that. songwriting kind of was like a survival.

tool for you. >> Mhm. >> That's the right words. No. Yeah, it was. like it was my therapy, especially in. those first couple years after my dad. died. Like I. I kind of uh I used science and. songwriting at the same time because I. have a lot of training in science. I. went and got a science degree. I worked. >> Were you at Purdue? >> No, I went to MTSU. Yeah. And I worked at Mars, the food. company in R&D for them. >> as a food scientist.

>> No way. Mars Candies research and. development for them. >> They make Snickers, huh? >> They do. But I actually worked I worked. in pet food for them, which is based out. here in Nashville. Um the Nashville area. at least. >> You were snacking on that, huh? >> Yep. That's me right there. >> [ __ ] I wouldn't even go to work if. that's all they had in the damn snack. bowl. >> Yep. And they they did they had like. buckets of Snickers. I put on like 30. pounds of pet food. >> No. Oh yeah. I'm like, I'd wear [laughter] if I ate. that much fat food, I'd wear a damn I'd.

wear a damn helmet, too. That's insane. >> People did eat pet food there. I saw it. with my some people try a little. Got. used to it. >> Yeah, I'd see some people do it like. some sometimes like, you know, you'd see. some highle people do it, too. Like it's. like you don't need to do this, dude. Like, >> oh [ __ ] that's just cracker jack. Russell, you know? >> Yeah. They're just trying to like, you. know, get down, you know, get down with. us a little bit. >> Oh, yeah. Some people love animals so. much they'll have a, you know, there's. people that even videos of people that. will snack with them and have those. little treats. >> Yeah. I don't advise it from a. microbiological perspective. Really?

>> Cuz I have a micro degree as well. I. wouldn't eat raw cat food or like wet. cat food. I mean, >> it does go through like a cooking wing. soft, brother. I'll tell you that out. the gate. >> But I did see dudes eat it. >> Would you? >> Yeah. Like with a spoon. Like wet cat. food. Eat it. >> Like I think it was a flex. >> No, >> it was a flex. Yeah. >> Is there one type that's the good type? Take me through some of that. [laughter]. >> No, it's all as far as like cat food to. eat. >> Yeah, I guess it's all snack.

>> No, I don't want to try none of it cuz I. knew what was in that. And um and I knew. like what was in like like proteins and. like all that that goes into those. foods. And uh I understood all the kill. steps and stuff were there, but I also. know that my digestive tract is far. different from felines or canines. And. we ain't made to eat what they're made. to eat. And so, um, >> so yeah, I didn't really I did not. partake, but yeah, you'd see a dude like. take a big spoonful of cat food and then.

like drive off in his Lamborghini cuz, you know, it was usually like a. highlevel person. >> Yes. >> Like it was it was it was a power move. >> It was impressive though. I was like, damn, >> dude. I was just talking to my friend. this morning at breakfast about things. that the powerful do and why they. operate certain ways because it's like. yeah what can I do? How weirder could. this get? If you have everything if the. if the basic like I need to make money. to survive. I need to feed my family or. once you have like I have seven wives. living in different cities. I'm in a.

live in a jet or I live in a some people. might be living on other planets now. They don't even know. >> got their own islands and stuff. >> Yes. And it's like then what? Yeah. At. this point yes I'm having cat food but I. want the greatest cat food ever. I want. cat food that cats can't even afford to. eat. >> Yeah. And and sometimes they pretend. like they could discern between be like. they're not gonna like this. It's like. >> but you're not a cat. [laughter]. >> Like how do you eat that's for cats? >> He's like saying like he's basically. stating he's eaten so much of this food. he can now discern between what will.

work and what will not. >> Oh, that's good. >> Oh yeah. This is. >> Oh, that's good, huh? >> Oh, that's good. They're going to love. this. Yeah, the Himalayan cats are going. to love this. That. >> tilapia aftertaste. What uh what was a. product that you guys made while you. were there? Do you remember one product. that kind of came through? >> Yeah, it's called Dentistics Fresh. It's. still on the market. I see it out there. >> And it's for animals. >> Yeah, it's for dogs. It's a it's a. basically a a teeth cleaning dental. chew. Very digestible. Um there it is. That's my baby right there.

>> Oh yeah, I've seen that before. >> Yeah. Um, that was one of my products. that I launched from start to finish and. um, yeah, I it's cool. It's cool to see. it kind of out there still doing its. thing. >> Yeah. At the end of a show, you hum some. of those out in the audience. >> Yeah, I probably need to start chucking. them out there. Like take a bite out of. catch one, dude. I come on stage catch. one in my mouth. >> No, I would eat one of those if I had. to, but I wouldn't eat none of that cat. food. >> That's fair. And look, I love to eat.

>> That's mostly like flour. That's mostly. wheat flour and and it got, you know, it. ain't got the same ingredients that cats. did. >> Did you ever pitch a product that they. didn't like or are you allowed to pitch. products? You did. >> Yeah, I did. I pitched a lot of. products. Um, but at the end of the day, I was the geeky scientist and they're. like, you need to make what you you need. to make. And they they have a a much I. think a greater understanding of what. the market requires than some of us. geeky scientists do. So, I had my own. lab and I would I would come up with. these new things and new designs and.

pitch them in my my free time and there. was a lot of creativity to it and um and. you know that was you know there's. actually a lot more creativity to. analysis than you think and there's a. lot more analysis to creativity than you. think. I think the two can work very. well together. And like back to what I. was saying, but like when my dad died, I. was able to kind of apply science and. songwriting. Um because I was like so. devastated, but like I was kind of able.

to metaphorically put a lab coat on and. go into researcher mode. And um and. that's kind of where the songs came. from. I just started like looking at my. pain from. another perspective, like trying to look. at it from the outside in, like as a an. observer, >> and then just kind of documenting my. findings as I went. Like I spent four. years making this record, Son of Dad,

and like two or three of those years. were research years, just made. documenting everything I was going. through. Wow. and um and keeping, you. know, meticulous records like scientists. do, but I was channeling that into songs. instead of like, you know, a pet food. product. But I was still using the same. methodology like cuz I I had to be true. to it because that's the thing about. science. It's just a truth detection. tool. It's not an ideology or a. paradigm. It's just a it's just a.

effective tool if it's used correctly. >> It's like a metal detector, you know. >> Yeah. Exactly. Or or a chainsaw even. If. you use it great, it can be great. But. if you use it right, it can be great. If. you use it wrong, it might cut your damn. hand off. Like science created the. atomic bomb. It's also created cures for. incurable diseases that we thought. Um, it's it's a beautiful thing, but at the. end of the day, it's just a tool for. detecting truth. And I used it like. that. So I would have this question and.

I'd have my observations. Then I would. create a hypothesis as you would say. which would basically be a song a song. title an idea and I would go out and. test it in the world. I'd play in front. of seven people here, 10 people there, seven people here, seven people there. and I would get instant data like. >> feedback. >> feedback which is data that in the. scientific field we can spend six months. before we it can be six months before. you get your first result from an. experiment. So I was getting instant. results. So I love that part of it.

uh you know. >> yeah I think that instant feedback is I. mean yeah it helps you know what's going. on it's even like working with the jokes. you know and getting them out there it's. pretty fascinating how like. >> the parts of your life like to be a. scientist to have like a methodology to. then use it to channel your emotions and. look at you look at your emotions look. at your life look at the path of things. you know to put like. to almost like take a template of. science and apply it to. >> uh something as emotional his music.

>> Yeah, I kind of joke around calling. myself a song scientist, but that's. essentially what it is. I mean, because. you know, user bias is is like it can so. easily contaminate your results and. contaminate your entire experiment. experiment and experience. And so I. really was trying to use user bias. because I was trying to authenticate. something in one of my own emotions and. experiences, but also take user bias out.

of it because at the end of the day, you. got to find the truth. And just because. you don't like the results doesn't mean. they're not true. And that's where user. bias. >> like gets in the way because you want. the results to be different. Maybe you. really like this song, but you're not. getting the results that you thought it. was going to get. So you start you start. adjusting your formula and then before. you know it you got conclusive results. either. >> conclusively this is not the truth or. conclusively this is the truth.

>> Ah. >> and then you run with the truth whether. it's good for you or bad for you and. that's. >> yeah I was just looking at this right. here it says user bias uh refers to. cognitive tendencies that distort how. individuals perceive interpret or. respond during research. What are. examples of user bias? >> For example, um you you think that this. is going to work for whatever reason. You have a hunch like that this whatever. thing is going to work and you've now.

like attached an emotion to it because. you almost need it to work now. >> Now, now it's more about you than it is. about the truth. Like so when you go. into like an experiment, it doesn't need. to work out for you. Like your feelings. have to be completely separate from this. >> if you're doing true. >> If you're going to be a true researcher. and using the scientific method the. proper way. >> So you know that's I guess when you get. into a song, especially a song about.

your dad or a song about loss, it's easy. to be like, well it needs to be like. this. it needs to say this or it needs. to say that because that's what's going. to make me feel good, but that's may not. be the truth. >> Yeah. I think your songs don't really. take me on like a they don't take me on. a typical journey of like a beginning, middle, and end, I guess. And some of. them are different than others, of. course. >> But yeah, I guess sometimes you think of. a song, especially if it's a country. song, I think, of having like a. beginning, middle, and end almost like a. journey, whereas yours sometimes sort of.

like take me on a. a ride down a ride past something. >> or through something. >> Yeah. And it's not as much of like. you're giving me this story as much as. you are providing some things and I'm. the sto I'm remembering the story of. mine that pertain that associates with. it sometimes. >> Well, that's my and I'm not trying to. like what the [ __ ] do I know? But some. of that happens with your music. That's.

what I'm saying. Well, that's uh if if. there's any goal I've ever had as a. songwriter is to basically do that. because I I remember I heard this song. called Don't Take the Girl on a School. bus when I was a kid. It made a mess out. of me. >> and um. >> yeah cuz everything it's like then this. is now he's 20 years older and then now. it's the [clears throat] end of the. time. But I was able in the weirdest way. cuz my mama was, you know, my mom and. dad divorced when I was really young and. she was with some abusive men and um and.

she lived in Tennessee when I was a kid. and I was always I spent most of my. childhood very worried about her like. >> really not very worried about her. getting killed or hurt really badly. >> Why did she like abusive men do you. think? Um, I think probably um a lot her. childhood was very very hard. >> Oh, so maybe something happened and then. she think. >> Oh, she's a beautiful lady. What's her. name? >> Kathy. Kathy Lynn. >> Kathy Lynn. There she is. >> Yep. and uh you know she was just a baby.

having a baby and uh you know trying to. and my dad was an you know a great. >> a great man but they were also teenagers. and they were kind of like forced to wed. because of religion you know that like. she was 6 months pregnant when they got. married with me there's no way they were. going to have a child out of wedlock. >> right that was in. >> not going to happen and then they end up. having two more kids and before they. know it they're 22 years old and they. got three kids and it's that crazy. And. um so that you know I have to you know.

give her a lot of you know a lot of. grace cuz of you know her life was very. hard and she was very young and I don't. understand a lot of the you know some of. those choices she made but I remember. you know spending most of my childhood. in. >> inear in fear of her of getting that. call that she was she was gone and. >> uh is she your mother still alive? >> Yes she is beautiful. >> Yeah. and um she's had a wild year and. um she's she's very much with us and um.

>> she's had a wild year. >> Yeah, she almost got killed this year on. an ATV accident. It's wild that you. brought that picture up, but she. literally um yeah, she she had a very. much a near-death experience. She spent. two months in the ICU and um yeah, it. was it was it's been a wild year for all. of us, especially her. >> ATV deaths happen to so many people. >> Yeah. I don't. >> People don't realize how popular it is. >> I don't want one of them damn things. anywhere around. >> I'm not saying we're getting you one. this year. No, please don't. I'm just.

saying. Yeah, but I'm just saying. >> sell it on eBay. [laughter]. >> Yeah, you can pay. Yeah. Yeah. Skip go. with that one. You know, that one can go. on to the next. In United States, ATV. related deaths typically range from 300. 900 annually. Um, but yeah, it's I don't know why we're. even talking about this and I'm sorry, but I'm glad to know that she's doing. well. What? When you guys were young, what kind of stuff was she struggling. with stuff or. >> Yeah. Yeah. She had a lot of struggles. and uh. >> that young age is so tough. Can you. imagine that when your mother Can you.

imagine like when I was 22, I was just. concerned if I had enough, you know, time in my day to jerk off without. somebody bothering me. And here there. were people feeding children. >> She like I mean she had no business. having children. And uh but yeah, they. had these, you know, they very much had. these children and and she was going. through some really tough stuff and um. you know, like my dad got custody of us, which was kind of. >> rare at the time, >> kind of rare at the time. And but I.

remember hearing that song and I was. able to put her in that song. >> Yanni's daddy. >> It was like and it didn't make no sense. that, you know, like why is my mom in. this song? She shouldn't be. Like it. doesn't follow the story line. >> Oh, but your head put her in there. my. head put her in there and I was able to. copy and paste all of my emotions into. that song. >> and 3 and 1/2 minutes later I was a. wreck like like not because of the song. but because of my mom being in the song.

>> right. >> and I was like okay that's like to me. that's what. >> the the wizardry of songwriting is like. Craig Martin and Larry Johnson wrote. that song not knowing that some southern. Indiana boy was going to be like, you. know, be balling on a school bus with. around a bunch of FFA kids. Wasn't a. good look. And um. >> Yeah. >> And so, yeah, I mean, that's really what. I I mean, I would say that was the. moment that I really got bitten by or.

like song bit, so to speak, because I I. realized that music was more than just. beats and sounds and making words rhyme. It was literally taking a like. >> like taking someone's life and making it. part of a piece of art. And uh. >> and that's and that's. >> that's really what a a great song does. And I think the real great songs out. there um and and me as a songwriter, the. only thing I've tried to pay forward was.

that. So when you said that like I was. >> you're able to put yourself in those. songs. That's really all I've ever hoped. to achieve. Not so much to. >> put just put myself in those songs. I. want to put other people in those songs. and let them be the star of it, not me. >> Got it. >> And I feel like that's. >> if it's if it's anything that's what how. people respond to the music. It's about. them. It's that has nothing to do with.

me up there. I'm just a a vessel. >> Yeah. No, I think and I think there's a. lot of guys that are trying to feel. I. think for especially for a lot of young. men, it's been like there's a lot of. feeling and processing that that we've. missed somehow or we haven't found a way. to do it. I think um it's the same thing. that I noticed with some of uh Red Clay. Stray's music and it's different. You. guys' stuff is totally different, but if. you go to their show, they're they're. great. their show. It's a lot of men,

>> probably kind of adult men who are proc. are trying to find ways to process. stuff. >> Yeah, >> that's what I believe anyway. Um, >> and it's it's just it's interesting to. see that. It's interesting to see like. where do we go to process stuff and how. do we do it? And uh yeah, I think your. music does a lot of that for people. Yeah. Yeah. And that and that's why I. was saying that yeah, it would be hard. for you to write for somebody which. makes it a little bit tougher to have a. career in some ways because you don't. have like.

that you're you. can write some songs and but man that. with your stuff is so personal it feels. like to your brain and perspective and. attitude that it'd be hard for a regular. foot to fit into it, you know. Yeah, that was the that was the challenge. Yeah, like there's there's you know, this sounds so much like you. That was. >> right. And you know, but at the same. >> And it hurts at the time because you're. like, well, [ __ ] I'm just trying to do. this. But then in the end, it's like, oh, well, I'm the.

>> I'm the instrument. >> Yeah. >> And that just takes you out. And then. that's a it's a that's a gift that you. are because if you'd have got found this. other avenue that was for songwriting. and I know you've had some success in it. but if you found this other avenue that. was hugely successful then you may not. have continued to uh nurture or the. energy may not have been on the seed. that was you know the sunlight might. have not focused on you to keep that. >> absolutely honestly if my dad was still. alive I mean none of this would have. happened. I mean, really, if um you.

know, I'd probably be just writing. songs, trying to get cuts, and probably. still still failing at it. And um. >> Yeah, your dad would be selling merch. for you. Be nice, huh? [laughter]. >> Yeah, he might. He would. He would still. be there with his giant phone probably. [laughter] recording every bit of it. Proud as hell. Um. >> man, my my uh I was just thinking about. my dad. So, my dad was very old when I. was born and so I remember like I was. ashamed of my dad. So I had a lot of. shame about him, you know, but I grew up. in a lot of fear too in our household. Like my sister was real sick and so I.

was always scared that she was going to. pass away. And then my dad was old, >> so he was in his 70s when I got to know. him. So I was always afraid he was going. to pass away. So it was like this. constant thing of like, >> you know, it just felt like somebody was. just going dang dah, you know? Yeah. >> So it made everything kind of dower. >> Yeah. >> I think or I don't know. It made it like. the perspective was dim. That's what it. was. And my brother would mess with me. He'd come in the room and he'd be like, "Dude, dad's dead.". >> I'm like, "What?".

>> He'd be like, "Go in there, dude. Go in. there right now." And my dad would fall. asleep all the time cuz he was like 76. or 77. And those people like to sleep a. decent amount during the day. And I. don't know if he'd be a sleeper. He just. be laying there with his eyes closed. You know what I'm saying? A lot of old. people like, "I'm awake. I'm at work.". You know, they're [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. I'm married. you know that [laughter]. they're not forgetting the things that. are important, you know. >> Uh but I would go up and I would have to. go like and he would be alive. >> and I would be like, "Fuck you. You're. full of shit." So then it got to this.

weird part where my brother would come. in the room and he'd be like, "Dude, dad's dead." And I'm like, "Dude, he. better be dead when I go in there. [laughter]. or I'm going to beat your ass.". >> So it became and it flipped this whole. perspective of like what was normal in. the world. So my friends would be like, "Dude, what do you mean he better be. dead? Are you going to fight your. brother?". >> And I'm like, "No, he does this all the. time, dude. He's not freaking dead.". >> You were like, >> "I don't know. You were combating the. dark arts with other dark arts.".

>> Yeah. Or my mom would be like, "Go spend. time with your dad cuz he's probably. going to die soon." He'd be like, "All. right." You know, and [ __ ] like that. But she was just doing us to get us out. of the room so she could tidy up or. something. You know, some trick. >> But it was just weird [ __ ] you know? And so, and it was true, too. He. probably was going to die soon. So I was. like, "Well, get in there and spend some. time with them or draw a picture of. them." We probably have like 70 pictures. of them. We drew of crayons. >> But if you like go in there and draw a. picture of them, you know, you're going. to want it, you know, just horrible. pictures, you know. [laughter]. >> And sometimes we draw him like as a. black guy, just like, you know, just. like cuz it would seem more exciting or.

whatever. But. >> were you uh were you quiet as a kid? >> No, I don't think that I was. I think I. was like kind of curious. >> Yeah. >> And I like to make excitement somehow. like I like to create ambiance for. things, but I think I was probably I don't know. My mom says she didn't tend to me that. much because it seemed like I was doing. fine. >> Yeah. >> So, she didn't think I needed like a lot. of attention cuz she felt like I was. doing okay, you know, >> cuz we've had like some conversations.

about that stuff. Um, but yeah, I think. I that was a big regret I had was that I. had like a lot of shame about my dad's. age. >> and so I didn't even embrace him really. that much, you know, cuz I just I was. ashamed of it. >> Wow. >> But it's just life's just harrowing like. that. >> You you and I had like polar opposite. dads. My dad was like a baby and I was. like a I guess I was kind of I wouldn't. say I was a I was Yeah, it was. they Yeah, they were just kind of.

totally different perspectives to think. about. Like my dad was like a child. Like honestly like a big brother really. in a lot of ways because he was only 18. years older than me. >> Oh yeah, that's pretty normal. >> I mean I was like there's actually. there's actually siblings out there that. are like 15 15 years older than their. siblings, you know. >> Yeah. [clears throat]. So yeah, I mean that that had to be that. had to be tough. I find that people that. are that's why I asked, you know, people. that are spend I know I I spent my whole.

childhood in a state of fear of loss, fear of losing someone. >> unlusable at that time. Like. >> what would make that happen? It is such. a Oh, because your mom being gone. >> My mom. Yeah. I was like like losing her. was not. >> like something I was willing to bear but. it it seemed like it was. >> inevitable. >> inev like something that was like just. around the corner too. So like it made. me like retreat as a kid. It made me. like really quiet and observe it like. observe everything. >> You got to make sure everything's okay.

>> Yeah. God and keep my mouth shut because. like I didn't want to say something or. you know you know. >> that could cost me her. >> Yeah. that could cost me her or um. you know I I didn't want to draw any. draw attention to it or speak anything. into existence about it. Um and and I. didn't want anybody to know about it. either. So it was like my own little. >> you know my own little thing. And my dad. didn't know about a lot of her.

>> what she was going through with her. other husbands. Like I that was. something that I knew about. Yeah. And. um that was a tough secret to carry. >> because uh. >> you know it was you know he would have. never he wouldn't have wanted me around. that. And um God knows what he would. have done to those dudes and he probably. would have killed him or something. And. >> so I was I was always worried. I was. always trying to protect my dad from. himself and I was trying to protect my. mom from herself. It made me grow up.

real quick. And I bet your dad's. situation probably made you grow up. quicker. What makes you aware? That's. the thing. The worst thing to be as a as. a young kid in some ways. >> You're just so aware because you're. living on this different timeline. You're living on this other thing. >> It's good to be oblivious in those years. like. >> Yeah. >> And uh and really ignorant to like the. pain and you know the magnitude of that. is the weight of loss as a kid. Like we. we insulate and protect we protect. children from that. Yes. We don't even.

bring him to funerals because we don't. want them to see the That's something my. dad I got to say I got to give him a lot. of credit because I've I've been I've. seen people die from a young age from. grandparents to family members. Like he. would bring me to funerals probably. because he couldn't find a babysitter. Like what's he going to do? Like get a. babysitter so or have us wait in a car? He's like no you're going to come. >> and look at this dead body. You're going. to see this dead person because one day. it could be me. And like. >> my dad used to would drop us off at. funerals in our town if there was to to.

to in order to take get time away from. he dropped us me off at two funerals in. our town I didn't know any know anybody. at and he would take us to leave us at. Burger King for 8 hours like they were a. babysitter he had no I'm like and every. time he liked dad they do not want us. there anymore like [laughter] we ate. like 11 French toast sticks that people. gave us. >> and they don't even have a play place he. like enjoy the play place and he'd be. like it's the wrong one. >> Burger [laughter] King doesn't have it. dude. >> they don't have it everywhere So this. lady named Wanda, she was always like. the lady that would take care of us in. there. >> and we would just drink those syrups.

when people left them in there. But we'd. be at the [ __ ] Burger King for like. eight hours talking to people, me and my. sisters, and it would just be bizarre. But you'd end up in bizarre [ __ ] like. that, you know? My dad would take he'd. be like drive me over to the post office. cuz I was kind of tall when I was 10 or. 11, maybe 12. So I'd drive him over. there, but I didn't have a driver's. license or anything and there'd be no. parking spots. He like, "We'll just do a. couple laps around the block while I'm. in here." And I'd be like he and there. was this huge cutless as Delta 88. So I. was like I can't drive this [ __ ] And. it didn't have power steering. Dude, I.

would hit and the car was so banged up. I I [ __ ] hit probably seven cars. going around that block. >> totaling cars with that. >> Oh, dude. Just hitting all kinds. [laughter] of [ __ ] because. >> Yeah, cuz those things are solid. >> There was no like mirrors or there was. no house. >> There was no mirrors for sure after I. hit the street. But there was no um. cameras. Nobody knew what had happened, you know? And I would just be in there. and if dad had to wait to buy stamps, I'd be out there. I'd [ __ ] hit 50. cars, dude. [laughter]. But dude, it was just you would be in. crazy scenarios. Odd environments put you in crazy.

scenarios that other people couldn't. fathom and then it would just kind of. get your brain to like a different. place. >> Yeah. >> So, your brain was kind of operating in. some wild territory. Um, one of the. things you said, >> Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how many kids are. quiet because they're they they're. worried if they just talk if they affect. the world in some way that it could. alter that they could, you know, cuz. when you're a child, things are very. balanced in your head. Like I remember I. would swallow on both sides of my mouth.

I would be careful how I stepped. If I. counted one, I had to count one on the. other side of my brain. I always had. like these two sides inside of me and. like one over here, one over here. Like. these little things I had to do, right? And um. >> I did the same thing. Yeah, >> ticks. >> Little ticks. And it was because I had. to keep things even. Everything had to. be even. And so I wonder how many times. kids operate in this space where it's. like. >> I just can't affect anything too much. because things as far as I recognize. them are already like kind of on a on a.

uncertain fulcrum, on a one-footed. fulcrum, and it's going to get weird, you know. >> Um, >> no, I think you you just hit you hit the. nail on the head right there with me. I. think that was I I think you articulated. it far better than I did or could have. >> Um, but yeah, you're afraid to affect. the world because. >> you might change it for the worse. So. like I'm going to stay Switzerland and. keep my mouth shut. >> Yeah. >> And I did that for most of my childhood.

>> And then. >> but then a lot of the world happens. inside of you then. Yeah. >> If it's not happening inside of you, a. lot of the conversations and stuff, they. happen inside of you, >> which is interesting. >> Yeah. >> And it's I think it can be painful and. scary, but also kind of fascinating. >> Um, >> it allows you to be by yourself a lot. and and it it teaches you and trains you. to be alone and thrive in loneliness. And if there's anything like with. boxing, songwriting, I'm assuming. comedy, you know, there's a a lot of.

loneliness to it. You got to be inside. your own head a lot. >> in order to do it properly. Like it's. not like, you know, you just go up and. play a baseball game and hit a homer and. then, you know, it's it's just it's this. thing you got to stay in all the time. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's not eventbased. It's it's just. kind of this state of mentality. And. >> that's a good point, especially with. boxing because boxing most of it is the. training. >> Yeah. >> The fights are very rare.

>> Yeah. the the the fights are rare and. short compared to the training. >> So, uh your father was a boxer. H how. how did he get into it? Do you know how? >> Yeah. Um well, he started um probably a. year before I was born. Um. [clears throat]. he saw Muhammad Ali fight. Muhammad Ali. was like his hero hero. Um. >> he's from Louisville, Kentucky, so very. almost like almost like a local dude, too. Um yeah, my dad just idolized him.

He just watched all his fights, loved. everything about him in and out of the. ring. >> Um. >> and um I think yeah, he was just really. inspired by Ali's story and he literally. just wanted to start boxing. Um and I I. think the movie Rocky probably just came. out around that time, too. I bet that. probably had something to do with it. >> A lot of whites got caught up in that. >> Yep. And um but I think with the. combination of Muhammad Ali and Rocky.

Balboa. Yeah. Um my dad said, "Hey, I want to. put on some gloves." And before he knew. it, he was he was fighting. Um and he. started on his own just like literally. fighting anybody like signing up for. tough man competitions. And then he. ended up finding this great gym up in. Indianapolis and fighting under this um. coach named Champ Cheney is what that. was his name. >> Champ Cheney. Bring him up. Let's get a. gander at him. Like to see this man. today. >> I can still smell the cigar smoke.

That's him, dude. >> There you go, champ. >> Oh, dude. I haven't seen him in forever. >> Let him have it. >> That second picture right there, that's. exactly how I remember. I He'd have that. same sweater on every time I'd see him. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Police Athletic League. That was. the the pow clubs we' fight at. Like we. would open up for our dad's fights. Like. when he got into like champs toutelage, that's when he started like really doing. well. >> Okay. >> Because he didn't have [clears throat]. any really good training. >> And u very much like how Apollo trained.

Rocky Champ trained my dad. He he like. reformatted his whole style. He taught. him footwork. He taught him head. movement. He taught him all the things. that he lacked fundamentally cuz my dad. was just a tough guy with a mean punch. and and a heart of a lion. So, and uh he. could just train, train, train. He loved. to train. He loved to work. And Champ. loved that about him, his work ethic. He'd show up. >> to Indianapolis. He'd spar anybody. I.

remember him getting up in the morning. and literally having to peel his eyes. open to see us because of just sparring. not from a fight, just sparring those. dudes in Champ's gym. >> Dude, M. Go ahead. >> And I was just going to say, I mean, he. had a lot of guys that didn't care for. him. And I remember, >> you know, um, him talking about that. like he really had to fight for his spot. at that gym. >> Your dad did. >> He did. And. >> what reasons would they have not to care. about him or care for care for him? >> I think, you know, he just I think Champ. maybe favored him because he really put.

in a lot of work and he. >> I think Champ saw what he was going. through. He was bringing his kids to the. gym and you know and he was very much. out of sorts there culturally and he was. he was fighting an uphill battle and he. was and the wind was in his face and he. just still kept going forward. >> and um I feel like um that's what champs. saw in him and so when we started boxing. as a kid I mean my first memories are. the sounds of these fights like I that. right there like I can smell that.

picture um like I can smell the room I. can It's it's cigar smoke and isopropyl. alcohol with menthol in it. >> and um it's it's all this and a lot of. sweat and leather and. >> the sound of like um cops under the. table gambling screaming red and blue. cuz that's where you you'd be like red. and blue. They they have like red. headgear like this was an exhibition. fight. Me and my brother were fighting. each other in this one so we we didn't.

have an opponent so they'd just have us. fight each other. So that was one of the. fights we that was one of the fights we. opened up for my dad. >> Well, they gave both y'all a trophy, too, which is [ __ ] sure. >> Yeah, it's like a participation trophy. because it's an exhibition fight. >> But if you both get one. Yeah, I could. see that. Just tell them both are the. winner. >> There's exhibition fights and then. there's competition. These are. exhibitions. So, in an exhibition fight, you both get a trophy. You're just. exhibiting the sport of boxing. >> Not really. It's not going nothing's. going on your amateur record or anything. like that. But then we ended up fighting.

other kids and when we they could find a. boy our size to fight we'd fight him. Um. and so we would open up like the first. two or three fights on the card would be. kid fights. >> Oh that's fun. >> So I've I joke around I've been an. opener for a long time and uh yeah I. really have. >> there's nothing funner than watching a. kid smoke cigarettes or fight another. kid. A little kid. >> I did both of those things. >> Hell yeah. Yeah. >> There's something about that. I think. they should have a zoo where you get to. watch people do unique [ __ ]. >> Yeah. if they had a section where a. couple kids are sitting there smoking.

like don't have them smoke all day. because I know it's bad for them is bad. for them. >> but they get two cigarettes a day each. and it's like at a certain time they. smoke and you all get to watch it. >> for like 15 minutes a day you get to. come and watch it. >> and you could stream it too if you. wouldn't want to go in person you could. stream it but you're telling me some kid. smoking at on my lunch break at 12:15. p.m. Okay. Uh, you know, Gary or Robert. or whatever is going to smoke. And. >> if you find a little Gary, let me know. >> Yeah. >> Bubble wrap him, protect him. We going. That's a That's a precious That's a Gary. breed right there.

>> Oh, that's a Yeah, that's Gary Indiana, isn't it? [laughter]. >> Gary, Indiana is a wild place I've. heard. >> Um, but yeah, I would watch a kid I. would love to watch a kid smoke, you. know. Um, >> yeah. >> So, and that's I maybe that sounds very. Russian to me. I don't know. I've been. online a lot. Um, >> no. I think smoking is a very American. thing, too. >> But yeah, I just love like I don't know. I love nostalgia, too. That's something. that I love, dude. I remember the first. uh. >> Yeah. going to funeral. Like I just I. love the first of everything.

>> because after the first time of. everything, everything lost a lot of. luster for me in life, I think, a lot of. times. >> And I don't know why that is. >> And I don't mean it like super. negatively, like I'm I'm not down in the. dumps or anything. Yeah. Yeah. >> But I just it's the first it's like. there's something fascinating about the. first time of everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. Nostalgia is a it's a really. effective tool as far as you know making. people go back to memories. Um like. whether it's when you get in your own.

memory you're attached. >> Yeah. >> You know it's like um Yeah. There's just. something that attaches you there. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you you can use senses. to like a like as a an appendage to. nostalgia, like a sense of smell, >> a sense of sight or sound and and touch, all that. And I think if you kind of use. those senses and appendage them to a. certain type of nostalgia, you can.

unlock a memory within any human. >> Yeah. >> Like all humans, it doesn't have to be. your memory. you can you suddenly have a. key to so many memories and so many. minds and uh. >> and you yeah you open up these memories. that people have had vaulted for years. and when they come out it's like it's. almost like seeing that toy that. >> you got for Christmas when you were 7. years old that you were so excited about. but seeing it again for the first time. when you're in your 30s or 40 and you. kind of you relive that excitement for.

at least a second like oh man I I. remember that feeling I haven't seen. that in 30 years. And when you can. unleash that memory, it's just it's it's. such a beautiful thing. You you see it. on people's eyes. You see them traveling. through time and um. >> yeah, it's. >> yeah, it's like the first time you hear. a song kind of that really touches you, you know, >> like uh. >> it's a human thing. >> Why I got a new complaint? Who are who.

sang that song? Yeah. >> Nirvana. It's heart-shaped box. God, that song was [ __ ] good. >> Oh, it's incredible. Yeah, I hear that. song staying home from school to listen. to that song, dude. >> And watch the video. Like I remember. watching the video and just like I I. remember like Kurt rocking back and. forth in that chair. >> Just everything about it. Like that. whole record in Uro was just like. lifechanging for me. Scentless. Apprentice. Oh my god. Yeah. This is the. video. >> Oh, I do remember some of this now,

dude. Uh, I've been locked inside your heartshaped. B. Oh, dude. Yeah. When Sound Garden. came, bro, >> Sound Garden changed my life. >> Stone Temple Pilot. Bro, >> I actually learned how to play guitar. from Sound Garden. People if they like. if I could like give anybody like who. taught you how to play guitar, it. literally like if I could credit. anybody, it would be the band Sound. Garden. >> Literally. >> And I feel is that Sound Garden when the. Pilots. >> Stone Temple Pilots. >> They were all so good. What was.

Soundard? Sound Garden. Um, what's a. Sound Garden song? >> There's so many. Like, as far as hits, you got like Black Hole Sun, Fell on. Black Days, um, >> like Blow Up the Outside World, one of. my favorites. Um, >> Rusty Cage, Pretty News, The Day I Tried. to Live. Uh, Fourth of July is heavy as. hell. I love Fourth of July. July. limo wreck. Oh, that slaps. Super heavy. Well, that's Fourth of July.

Blow up the outside world. Dude, >> one of the greatest rock and roll vocal. performances ever is blow up the outside. world. Like listen to that Chris Cornell. vocal and just talk to me after it is. like a a clinic of. >> it. Put these on. Let's play it real. quick. >> We got to get You're going to play a. couple songs for us today. What do you. think, Stephen? >> Yeah, let's do it. Come on. I ain't. scared. >> I want to Let's listen to this together. if we can. A lot a lot of those high singers would. lose you when they go down like that.

They kind of. >> Yeah, it's all it I mean just so. enveloped like you just like you wanted. to be in their world. >> smashing pumpkins together. There was a. lot of good and I always one thing I've. never liked I don't like music where you. can't hear the words, right? >> Yeah. >> Sometimes the way they do mixes. something it loses me if I can't hear. the words. That's the part that I need. the most, right? cuz I need to feel. something. Like the beat and stuff. helps. It's cool for me, but for me, I've always been like, um, what are the.

words telling us? You know, >> I want to know the story. >> Yes. I want to feel something from it. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> um, >> yeah, I'm with you that I mean that it's. I'm a word nerd, so I'm sure I'm. assuming you are, too. >> Oh, I love to write. That was like my. favorite thing. I think like one of my. goals maybe the next couple years would. be to like finally get a book done. Like. I've written a lot of stuff and I've. written probably half of maybe two. books, but I would like to finally get. it done. But once video became so. popular, it was just like and once.

podcasting became busier, it was hard to. focus on that. >> Um, is there anything good in the news. right now that we want to check out? Dude, I did Will you look up an article, Trevan? I saw something about Facebook. and did research and then they canled it. after it started to find uh beliefs that. they didn't want. Mhm. >> We were talking about that. Um, >> what were we talking about a few minutes. ago about research? >> Yeah. >> What kind? >> User bias. >> Oh, about user bias. >> Um, >> on boxing. You have you done any boxing? Cuz you you never you've.

>> I've go to a lot of MMA. I go to a lot. of MMA stuff. I love it. As soon I you. know what? I wouldn't mind getting into. something more. The past year has been. tough for me. I didn't invest in a lot. like the past couple years with touring. I kind of should have invested more of. like having a trainer with me on the. road or things like that. I kind of took. some of that for granted. Um, and I. think in the future that I'll do it. differently. Um, but this year I'd like. to get more into focusing more on my. health and stuff like that. I've really. burned myself out pretty good. Uh, but I. used to take um MMA classes and I have a.

feeling that I'll get back into it. I've. also had traveled. I was moving a lot. too, but now I'm going to be here more. >> and so I need to put some roots more in. some places like that. Um, >> so it's like I'll be able to have more. of a system like a pattern. So, it's. been tough for me to have that. >> It's so hard to find that. I mean, I I. box a lot here in town. Well, a lot. I. when I'm in town, I [clears throat] try. to as much as I can, but it's it's. helped me so much. Just try to even if. it's two days a week, I u.

>> I only brought it up. I went to the UFC. Performance Institute in Las Vegas. Oh, that's what I heard. >> Last week. And uh because we played in. Vegas last week and they invited me in. It was so. >> Were we at the fights? No, no, it was it. was it was after the fights, but I saw. Sean Strickland there. It was crazy. You. did? Yeah. >> Oh, dude. He's a really amazing guy. He's an interesting guy. Incredible. >> He's a deep soul. >> He is a deep soul. And uh and just such. a nice guy. Everybody there was so nice. >> They're so great. Did you get to work. out there or train there at all? >> No. >> Yeah, I did. I I trained with Brandon.

Jenkins there. And. >> you did? >> Yeah, >> dude. Bring up Brandon Jenkins. I went. to I did. >> Yeah. Forest Griffin basically gave me. the tour and like he met me there and I. was like, "Holy hell, there he is.". >> Nice, dude. >> Yep. Yeah, he he put some work on me and uh. >> that's awesome. >> I was really out of shape and but it was. cool. I got to learn some new things. like he you know cuz I I only train with. boxing guys and he's an MMA guy. So like.

it was just there was a lot of different. angles, a lot of new things I had to. learn and take it you know kind of slow. and kind of start from scratch. It was. it was it was humbling and uh and I was. like four weeks on the road and very. like four weeks uh having not trained is. too much time off to like. >> go back. I felt like a total piece of. crap. Yeah. >> Like I looked real bad and I felt like I. looked real bad. >> That's a tough thing as you get older, too. It's like you got to catch me. Give. me a couple days to prepare for. anything. I can do it.

>> But do not catch me if I've had four or. five Diet Cokes and you want me to box. or [clears throat] whatever. >> [laughter]. >> [ __ ] I'm staying in the car. You know. what I'm saying? Like way too much. aspect. >> Yeah, that's what it is, dude. It's like. I look like a damn teddy bear or. something. [laughter] You know, cuz also. my body style, my god-given body style. is uh I'm built kind of like a. gingerbread cookie a little bit, you. know? Like I'm sturdy. Bring up a good. gbread on me, daddy. It's seasonal. anyway. >> I bet you can throw. >> You know what? I can survive, dude. I'll. do okay. Put me Give me a couple weeks. of uh of uh MMA. That's how I'm built.

right there. >> Yeah. >> Now, sturdy. I got a sturdy base on me. >> Yeah. >> Look like that. >> Well, I think both. >> bowlegged like that. >> No, they're This one, this one had a bad. uh This one might have had been in a bad. oven, but. >> Yeah. >> Um but [laughter] I think I got a little. bit more frosting on me than that one, but uh yes. Anyway, I maybe the one they. don't really make a perfect cookie, dude. But [laughter]. we should do You know what would be. interesting? What if we made cookies of.

like people that have been on this show. and we sold it was like a fund like we. could do part of it as like a fundraiser. or something for moms or something. Um. >> that's good. We eat each other's cookies. >> and you just get a batch of them or. something. Yeah. You can get a batch of. the Steven Wilson bite my head off. >> I love that. >> Yeah. If you're angry at your husband, you just get you a batch of them Steven. Wilsons and chew his head off. >> Um so that's pretty crazy. So Brandon. Jenkins met you out there. >> and Forest Griffin met you out there. >> Yeah. And they gave me a tour of the. whole facility and we trained. Oh man,

it was like um I was a kid at a candy. shop. >> Did they take you through like not just. the gym part but also the UFC building. and stuff? >> Yeah. Yeah. I got to go into like the. lunchroom and everything. >> Yeah, dude. It's nice. >> Yeah. I was like this is so nice. And. Yeah. Like you don't this is like the. most dangerous lunchroom you'll ever. walk into. Like seriously. Like like. everybody was so nice and and so. friendly, but it was like you'll never. walk into a cafeteria that could hurt. you so bad. >> Yeah. Oh, even the line cooks will have. like cauliflower. He's like, "Do you.

want cauliflower?" [laughter] You're. like, "Oh, >> I'm good. I'm about Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Even like Yeah. I think like the. head chef in there last week was like. Brandon Roy Val or something like they. got some gangsters in here. I'm being. careful what I asked for in here.". >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's hilarious, dude. Metabur. casual evidence of social media harm. US. court filings alleged. Oh yeah, this was. it. This was about information about Let. me This Meta shut down internal research. into the mental health effects of. Facebook after finding causal evidence.

that its products harmed users mental. health according to unredacted filings. in a lawsuit by US school districts. against Meta and other social media. platforms. So, so would that be information bias? >> Turn research into office. In a 2020. research project cenamed project. mercury, uh scientists worked with. survey film survey firm Neielson to. gauge the effects of deactivating. Facebook. According to meta documents. obtained via discovery to the company's. disappointment, people who stopped using. Facebook for a week reported lower.

feelings of depression, anxiety, loneliness, and social comparison. >> Yeah. Rather than publishing those. findings or pursuing additional. research, the filing states Meta called. off further work and internally declared. that the negative study findings were. tainted by the existing media narrative. around the company. Privately, however, a staffer insisted the conclusions of. the research were valid according to the. filing. Is that user bias? >> Uh, I would I'd say it definitely could. be user bias, but I would actually have.

to see the research. I mean there's so. many other variables like you want to. know the how many like participants were. involved like what's your statistical in. um meaning like how many participants. were therefore you know your bell curve. is going to be a lot more I guess uh a. lot more valid you're going to have more. statistical significance the the higher. number of participants are involved in. the research for all we know there's 20. people that they did research on on.

Facebook but if they said like, "No, we. did research on 200,000 people." Okay, now you got statistical validity, but I. need to see this research paper. And cuz. one person's saying that there's user. bias, and then there's another person. saying, "No, the results are actually. scientifically valid.". >> So, that person may actually have bias. because they're like emotionally. attached to all the research they did. Who knows? I see what you're saying. >> This could be like a user bias on top of. user bias. A user bias sandwich. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> bias the sandwich. user bias.

>> It's the new Bond me, dude. Um, bring it. back up. I want to see a little bit more. information on Let me see if it tells us. because it is interesting to think. though that that I noticed after only a. week, people were getting better. This. is allegedly. The full record will show. that for over a decade, we have listened. to parents research issues that matter. most and made real changes to protect. teens. Go further. See, uh, okay. Okay. The allegation of Meta burying evidence. on social media harms is just one of the. many in late Friday filing by Mley Rice.

um a law firm suing Meta, Google, Tik. Tok, and Snapchat on behalf of school. districts around the country. Wonder if. we get in touch with them. That sounds. like kind of an interesting lawsuit, doesn't it? >> Just to see like what are they learning. and what what information have they. learned? Broadly, the plaintiffs argue. the companies have intentionally hidden. the internally recognized risks of their. products from users, parents, and. teachers. I want to see the research and. I want to see if they conducted it or if. it was conducted by a second party or. third party. >> Um that's going to be a huge part of it.

And I mean Australia just recently did a. social media ban kids under ages 16 I. believe. >> Um why is the Australian government. banning social media for under 16s? The. government says it will reduce the. negative impact of social media's design. features that encourage young people to. spend more time on screens. Mhm. >> Um 10 platforms are currently included. in the ban. Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Threads, Tik Tok, X, YouTube, Reddit, and streaming platforms like. Kick and Twitch. A study it commissioned.

earlier in 2025 found that 96% of. children aged 10 to 15 use social media. and that seven out of 10 of them have. been exposed to harmful content. This. includes misogynistic and violent. material as well as content promoting. eating disorders and suicide. Um, >> one in seven also reported experiencing. grooming type behavior from adults or. other children. And more than half said. they've been the victim of cyber. bullying. >> Wow. >> I think [ __ ] I'm not even a child and. all that's happened to me on there. >> Yeah. >> I'm a damn adult and some of that [ __ ].

hurts. >> Yeah. >> What will it say? How will it work or. when they're imposing it? I just want to. get that information out in this. >> Dude, go back up. It takes Meta about an. hour and 52 minutes to make a to make. $50 million in revenue. That's. Australian revenue. That's crazy. >> Wow. >> Australia's social media ban for. children under 16 officially started on. December 10th. >> So, they're in it. >> They're in it. >> If you're an Australian kid, [ __ ] I.

don't think this is illegal to have kids. call. But call and tell me honestly what. do you think? Do you think it's good? Are you pissed about it? What are the. feelings right now? >> Yeah. Hit me with a couple uh hit the. hotline 985664-9503. and just let drop drop and don't be some. fake weirdo pretending with an. Australian accent. >> Yeah. >> Who's obviously a pervert or whatever. [snorts] We want we want real kids to. call in. Okay. No, I mean Australia when. it comes to science and research they. they are very thorough. I went to school. there for a year. I did I did my junior.

year and like they have like I went. there for their science programs. their. research programs are some of the best. in the world. So, if they've actually. done proper research to back this up, I. I believe that it's probably valid. science. And. >> and was that in Sydney? >> It was in Brisbane. >> Oh, yeah. >> Got out of Brizzy. And uh Yeah, >> dude. The Brisbane Lions, dude. >> Yeah. Yeah. No way. >> Yeah. >> I love the Lions, >> dude. The Brisbane Lions. Bring them up. >> And the Wallabies. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. The Brizzy Lions, dude.

[ __ ] legends, dude. >> Bring up Mitch. There he is, boys. Class. >> Yeah, >> dude. Yeah, I love the Brisbane Lions, dude. I went over there one night with. Mitch. Had a good time. I love. Australia, brother. It's great. >> I miss it. I'm going to go back some. hopefully next year. >> Um, did you find Are you married? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Is there a Steven Wilson III? >> No, there isn't. No. No. I don't have. any uh biological children. I have a. stepson named Henry. Okay. that I I've.

uh been helping raise since he was about. four years old. And uh he's he's my boy. and um yeah, he's pretty cool kid. >> Incredibly cool kid. He's such a great. kid. I'm very very blessed. Um. >> what do you admire about him? >> Um he's well he's so different from me. in in the best ways. He's he's very um. very intelligent and very collected and. calm um and very um.

I I I would say he he's more ordered. than I am. Um in in a lot of ways he's. he's got I I think. this incredible constitution about him. and uh he's he's got a very calm. constitution. Um which is not what I. grew up around. like I grew up around a. lot of noise and a lot of chaos and a. lot of energy. >> and uh he is he's like um he's like a.

rock in a raging river that will not. move, >> you know, and I just I love that about. him. And he's he's a. >> a very strong and smart young man, very. much into Muay Thai kickboxing. And uh. we started in boxing and yeah, he's he's. my dude. And my dad was um a stepfather, not just a father. He had he he. remarried after my mother. And a couple. times he didn't have the best luck with. the ladies, but uh uh a couple of his. wives had stepchildren. And um and I he.

really taught me how to be a good. stepfather, I got to say. Not by. teaching [clears throat] me, but just by. example. Like his faith was led by his. works, not his words. You. >> What's one of the toughest things about. being a stepfather kind of that people. don't really see or that they may see? And you may have your own that you may. have some uh specific thoughts about. >> Um well, I mean I was not just a a step. I'm not just a stepfather. I was a. stepchild. So I remember the perspective. as a stepchild. So I go into my.

stepparenthood as a stepchild. >> Oh okay. >> So I have something that a lot of. stepparents don't have. I have like a. really unique perspective of what it was. like to grow up with steps R&D. You've. done the R&D. Yeah. I've done the R&D. I've had the experience. I've had. multiple steparents. I didn't just have. >> I didn't just have one set. I. >> You have a trial sample. >> I like Yeah. I had a lot of variability. >> Variables. Yeah. Okay. There we go. So, I got some good data there. [laughter]. And um and one thing I just remember and.

this was never a conversation. Um my dad. just loved. his stepchildren like us. There was. never like. >> I feel like a lot of stepparents if they. have biological children and. stepchildren they will like well I love. you just like I love him and they'll say. that. >> he never said that that I can remember. he just did. >> that that was what his that's the lesson. that I learned is that it has nothing to.

do with words has everything to do with. your actions and um so I've really just. tried to. be the best stepfather. I cannot talk. about being a stepfather or talk about. anything. Just like just be. And um. >> Yeah. I think it's I think it's tough. It's like. sometimes easier for me to love a. stranger than it is like somebody close. to me. I feel like in a weird way. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's, you know, familiarity breeds contempt. That's an.

old saying. And you know the more. familiar you become with somebody the. more contemptuous you can become. >> Oh yes disputes. >> Yeah. So like a stranger is without. contempt because there's no familiarity. there. And uh [snorts] you know that's I. guess the kind of the the battle of love. because the more you love somebody the. more familiar you become with them. And. uh and like I guess that is I know. >> like how do you balance contempt and. love because contempt is going to kind.

of creep its way in or some somehow. >> resentment. something negative will come in there. the more and more you love somebody and. and uh you know maybe that's just you. know the darkness balancing out the. light but you know I think just. acknowledging it and knowing that it's. there is is really the big part of it. because like the fear or the the panic. behind it is the lack of understanding. behind it really fear is most of the. time just the lack of understanding.

>> and um and fears sometimes they're. standing there and you don't it's like. if you really looked at it for a bit. But sometimes I'll just feel a fear and. react. I'll do that for decades. >> without really looking at what's going. on here. >> Yeah. >> What's really got me here? What am I. really? You know, and sometimes just you. could figure it out and it's and you're. free of it. >> You know, you can at least have a see. when it's standing there, >> you know, but I'll let a damn thing. Michael Myers me out there forever and I. won't even go out there and realize this. is just a damn cardboard cutout of some.

old [ __ ] Yeah, >> this isn't even [ __ ] nothing's even. in this costume anymore. >> And I've still been acting this way. because part of me. >> I get something out of pretending that. that's still real, too. >> Yeah. >> I get an excuse, you know? I get to keep. living my life a certain way. >> when I pretend that that old boogeyman. is still new. You know, not saying that. that happens a lot, but I'm just saying. that that. >> that has not been a part of my story at. times probably and sometimes I didn't.

realize it. Um, >> it's wild what the mind can do in those. like my dad took me deer hunting and I. think that was the best. >> thing he could have done for me. Not. it's just the boxing you know you you. come you deal with a lot of fear in. boxing because you don't understand. certain things but I remember like you. know when you go deer hunting you go out. especially if you if you hunt you you go. out about an hour before sunrise into a. pitch black woods and you'll walk a.

quarter mile into a pitch black woods. and my dad would post me up against a. tree with a shotgun in my hand not even. a treeand or thing. >> Damn. [clears throat]. >> Post me up against a tree and then he. would go off about 500 yards other way. cuz he'd have to be far away cuz I could. shoot him or he could shoot me. Like you. got to be you can't be in range of each. other's shot cuz they're we're shooting. slugs. And um but I just remember like. okay getting out there an hour before. sunrise it would be pitch black and he.

would walk me out to this tree and you. couldn't see nothing. And like I. remember thinking like he would walk out. here by himself all the time and I was. like, "Man, that's crazy." And uh and he. would sit me up against a tree in the. pitch black and it would just be pitch. black. And then he would go off into his. tree and I would be there for at least. 45 minutes in the darkest woods you. could imagine. >> Yeah. >> Hearing everything [clears throat]. creek and crackle and, you know, move. around, shuffle through leaves. Is that.

a a wild boar? Is that is you know is. that [laughter]. >> is that a hooker? Is that a cougar? That. a. >> You'd hope it was a hooker, but it never. was, dude. It was like a boar. >> Yeah. Or just a squirrel. >> Yeah. Or a raccoon. Like it had gotten. shoes somewhere. Like a. >> Yeah. A rabid raccoon. >> Yeah. But no, I just remember then then. the the sun would slowly start to come. up and the light. >> you would start to understand the woods. that you didn't have understanding of. like 45 minutes ago. and you'd start to.

see it and then it was like, okay, it. become literally as the more and more. light crept into the woods, the more. understanding you you got of the woods. and what it looked like, what it was. made of, what kind of trees, what kind. of animals that were making all these. sounds. And by, you know, by the time. the sun was up, >> there was nothing in that woods that was. scaring you anymore. So, it was really, you know, your fear was what you didn't. understand and what you couldn't see. The woods did not change in the presence. of light or the. >> the lack thereof. It's was the exact.

same woods that it was 45 minutes ago. >> cuz the squirrels don't care about dark. and light, you know. They just they. live, you know. They. >> Oh, yeah. They're always up to some. [ __ ] or whatever. Some gay [ __ ]. >> They [laughter]. ain't afraid of the dark. >> Yeah. They ain't afraid of other men. either. Apparently some of these young. bucks. I've seen a lot of squirrels. >> Gerbles. Gosh. >> Oh, you catch me a little bit. Gerbles, baby. Oh, >> those [laughter] are the old days, dude.

Remember how those crazy rumors? >> Yeah, I know. We were just talking about. that. >> Like Richard Gear's gay. He used to put. squirrels up his butt or whatever and. people like what? But somehow that made. it around society. >> I know. No, I know. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, that was that made it to my tiny. little small town in southern Indiana. >> We were just like, what are we talking. about? I guess maybe that is the. downside of social media is that those. old [ __ ] rumors don't come up. anymore cuz someone would eventually. they would shoot them down immediately. It would it'd be all over Tik Tok in a.

day and then someone would be like. >> but you Yeah. >> Someone would be like this is a bunch of. [ __ ] and then be like. >> you used to be able to lie to people. >> Yeah. My dad's a skydiver. >> Yeah. >> Like like oh he'll be home any minute. [laughter] You lie to people all the. time. You like I'm a lawyer. They like. you're in seventh grade. What are you. talking about? You're like, "Yeah, whatever." The defense rests. >> Dukeer, you heard of it? >> Dukeer was good, huh? That. >> show you could become a doctor at like. age 12. >> Yeah. Like, man, the world was wild. They just. did whatever they want to in the 90s.

>> Richard Gear, Gerbles, >> Children, Doctors, Doogie, >> to be young, huh? >> Yeah. Save by the Bell. >> Oh, I saw I was at the UFC fights the. other day and I saw uh Mario Lopez. >> Oh, wow. Oh, how crazy Thomas looks. He. looks younger than when he was when he. was [laughter] working. >> He's got like his mullet back. Look what grade he is. He's like in. seventh, eighth grade now. >> Still wearing like those leotards and. stuff. The uniards. Yeah, the uniard. >> Yeah, bro. He looks even better than.

that now. I don't even know what. happened to him. Incredible. >> Yeah, he was like Yeah, he's every. ethnicity, too. >> Looks like he's still captain of the. wrestling team. >> Oh, dude. Dude, I Oh, god. Yeah. Oh, jeez. Sorry. But yeah, guy looks. healthy. What I'm saying is this. Whatever, dude. I like women, but what. I'm what I'm telling you is [laughter]. um will you have will you have kids on. your thing? >> Um I don't know. I'm I'm pretty good. I. think you know we we talked about it. Um. we've also talked about adopting kids, but but you know I don't know. I've um.

>> I got a lot going on right now. I got. Henry. I've I've ra I mean I know what. it's like to raise a child. >> I know what it's like to love a child. I. I know what it's like for a child to. love me. I'm not missing anything. Um so. um but you never know. You you never. know. Think you know that we we could. have a child. Um. >> but right now my life is very very busy. and um I I think I have.

>> other things that I'm supposed to be. doing right now. Uh rather than. >> raising a baby at the at this particular. moment in my life. And um and I have. some I have a lot of work to do right. now and uh maybe maybe a child will be. in the future. Um but um. >> but you asked about nieces and nephews. Yes, I do. Um I have quite a like all my. siblings have children. And um yep, I'm. wild uncle Steven that goes around the.

world singing his songs. They're a. little bit I'm sure they're like, "What. the hell is this dude?" because all my. family like are still in my hometown. They work on cars and they're very it's. very much a small town life and then my. weird ass does what he does. But they. they love it though. >> Oh, I bet they're so proud of you. It's. cool. >> Oh yeah, they they I don't think they. know what to think about any of it cuz. they've seen me kind of live multiple. lives in front of them. That's been one. wild thing to see because my siblings.

had their children very young just like. my my parents did. And so my niece, a. lot of my nieces and nephews are older. now. So that they remember me when I was. a scientist and that's all I was doing. And then they remember when I quit my. science job and I was waiting tables and. bartending and just trying to get a. publishing deal. And then they remember. the guy that got a publishing deal and. was writing songs for other people and. my dad recording them on the big phone. and all that. And now there's this. chapter. So they've kind of got to see.

their uncle go through multiple. identities. So if anything, I hope that. it's been, you know, helpful for them to. see that you're not stuck in any. particular life. Like you can live. multiple lives. You can do all kinds of. things, you know. >> Um. >> Amen, man. >> And I I think it's important for them to. see that, you know. Um. >> you know, life has chapters. It's not. one chapter is, you know, and you can. you you're writing your own book and uh. you can make the chapters as long as you.

want, >> but there are only so many pages. And uh. >> Amen. >> Amen indeed. >> Well, thank you for helping us think. about stuff, man, and for giving us some. uh of your music over the years. I'd. love to get together and we could talk. again sometime. I feel like there's. other avenues of things we could talk. about and sometimes I I realize it's. better, you know, to just get together. and talk again sometime. >> so that way we could go down different. roads and think about other stuff. I. think today it's been nice to just to. talk about like. >> Yeah. relate like familiar relationships.

and how some things can influence you. and yeah, what it's like living like. your father's dream out. Um. >> we never talked about the theory of. evolution. We can get to that next time. maybe. >> Yeah, we can. I I'll put a whole. presentation for you together. >> Well, I'll do a little more R&D while. you're gone. I think I might hit a. petting zoo or something while you're. gone and see if [laughter] I can get a. little bit more. >> Come on. >> research done, dude. Um. >> Well, I got to say I I probably owe you. money cuz I feel like I could have paid. a therapist a lot of money. I've never. had therapy in my life, but I probably.

do need it. Uh haven't. But you said. something that was so like insane. earlier um about the quiet part, you. know, about do you think um. you know, you were quiet because you. didn't want to affect the world around. you? >> Yeah. >> I think like I like I said that that. really rocked my world, so to speak. I'll be thinking about that for a long. time. Um, there's certain things that we. as songwriters say to some sometimes to.

somebody and it it kind of flips a. switch or it makes them think about. something they've thought about for a. long time totally differently. And that. that was a paradigm shift and I thank. you for it. So, if anything, I walked. away with a an incredible piece of. knowledge that I, like I said, I could. have could have never even found in. therapy. And if I [clears throat] had, it would have cost a lot of money. So, thank you. >> I owe you one. >> You're welcome, man. No, you've you've.

already you've paid me. You've paid in. advance, dude. So many times I've. listened to your songs in moments where. I needed something or to process. something or just to remember my father, you know, like I like, you know, one. thing about my dad, I remember he liked. to whistle and he had change in his. pockets all the time. >> So, if I hear change, you don't hear. change in people's pockets anymore. That. used to be a thing, you know, like a. older man have change in his keys in his. pockets. And now like a lot of car doors. are just auto entry and um it's hooked. to your phone and people don't have. change anymore. >> But that like when I want to think about.

my dad, I'll like that's one of the. first things I'll lay there and think. about is the sound of change in. somebody's pocket kind of, you know. But. um. >> that was his song. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was his song. >> That was like my dad always whistled. He. always had a song in his head. He was. always whistling a song or humming a. song or singing a song. like he was a. song like you know he was either riding. a songwave or or just you know being a. song without being one. Yeah. But you. know like you know but yeah there there. was always like a sound to him and it.

sounds like your dad had the same sound. >> Oh yeah. He was a joyous instrument. >> But yeah if we think of ourselves as a. song it's like what song am I when I go. into the room with people and you know. and you can be different songs. Sometimes you're a separate song maybe. when it's just you by yourself or or. your music's kind of off and you're just. sort of listening. But yeah, it's like. what kind of song do I bring into the. world, >> you know? And then do I just play the. same song over and over again? And maybe. I do that because I just it's. therapeutic to myself, you know? >> Um. >> yeah, >> I don't know. It's But it's been.

fascinating, man. It's been fascinating. to be a fan of yours. It's been. fascinating to um get to share your. music with other people. I've done that. a bunch to connect with them, you know, tell my brother like, "Hey, man, I love. this song." You know, and and then he. can call me back and like, "Oh, I see. why you like it." you know, and just. things like that that uh that can bring. people closer together. So, thank you so. much, man. >> Thank you. You've shared this m our. music, my music a lot on your show, and. you talked about it a lot. >> I remember Lambert was in and we both. loved you. We've Yeah. Well, everybody. loves to talk about you behind your. back, Stephen. So, I figured we would do.

it in front of you. >> Well, I'm I'm grateful either way that. anybody is talking about this music and. you've you've been a an early champion, Theo. Thank you. >> Oh, well, I don't know if that's true, but thank you, dude. And Evan Bartell's. is another great guy. If you're. listening to any of his music, >> I mean, there's just some people that. can just make me feel something, you. know, >> and uh so thank you, dude. Thank you for. helping us feel. If would you honor us. and play a song or two before you leave? >> Let's do it. >> Let's go. >> All right. Let's do it. Let me play some. Gary.

>> Let's do it, man. Ladies and gentlemen, Stephen Wilson Jr. >> Thank you, sir. >> [music]. >> 1 2 3 4. [music]. Gary these days been lying in his bed. [music] working on the same car. [singing] going on a decade.

scribbles on drunk mail don't draw. [music] attention. I never really noticed but now that I'm. >> [music]. >> Ain't a lot of boys named Gary these. days. [music]. Born with a cigarette glued to their. face. Fixing about [singing] anything a. hammer can't handle. Saving on the money. cuz a Gary don't gamble. Ain't a lot of. girls going by Debbie anymore. But they. got the same nicotine [music]. pouring out the pores. Time leaves town.

but the minute a stays. There ain't a lot of boys named Gary. [music] these days. [music] Now Gary these days been worried. about the bad news. [music] There ain't a lot of teenagers. filling up the church views. No [music]. burning boy slice don't talk to his.

brother. The [music] people even still say grace. before suffer. There ain't lot of boys. named Gary these days. Born with a. cigarette to his face. Fixing about. anything a hammer can't handle. [music]. Saving all the money cuz a Gary don't. gamble. Ain't a lot of girls going by. Deb anymore. But they got the same. nicotine pouring out the course. Time. leaves down but the minute hand stays. [music].

a lot of boys named Gary these days. [music]. [music]. [music]. it. We. [music].

got the belie. [music]. [music]. I had a weird suspicion with the light. out on the front porch. Hard medication [music] poured down. where the [singing] drain p.

He holds [music] his left arm while his. parakeet prays. Has anybody seen much of Gary these. days? [music]. Has anybody seen much of Gary these. days? [music].

[music]. Ain't. a lot of. boys. [music]. [music]. Yeah. [singing]. Hey, hey, hey. [music]. [music].

[music]. [music]. >> [music]. [music]. [laughter]. >> Why do you do it like that? It's just.

fun, huh? >> It's almost like the door closes on it. or something. >> It's like the, you know, Gary dies. And it's almost like the door closes on. Gary. >> It's Gary said. >> It is. And there's not enough Gary's out. there. >> There's not. I mean, there are Gary. breed, >> dude. Well, they should have a uh they. should have a um a museum that has. Garry's in it. >> I agree. You know, I always thought. there would be a a great idea for a Gary.

Buucy Museum called the Gary Museum. >> Oo, I like that. >> Yeah, >> the museum. Yeah. >> Yeah, >> he should have that. >> I think so. And you go in and it's just. like a bunch of point break memorabilia. >> Yeah. >> And like just beauty. Yeah. A lot of. good beauty stuff when he was he was in. uh. >> make it too. >> count. Yeah. A lot of movies and some of. his cameos even does now could be. >> Yeah. He like breaks the fourth wall. I. love that about him. He He looks at the. camera. You notice that? Like in movies.

like he like looks at the camera. >> I don't notice it as much. But now that. [snorts] you say it, he breaks the. fourth wall of existence of being human. >> He does. Yeah, he shatters right through. it. >> He speaks in acronyms and uh. >> it reminds me of a rare name, dude, that. I they or Debbie. We had Was that Debbie. in the song? >> Debbie. Yeah, >> we had um what was our uh Miss Robin? >> Oh, [clears throat] yeah. >> That was our lady at uh our. kindergarten. And I would not sleep. I. couldn't nap time or whatever. So, she. started to notice it and she'd let me go. outside and watch her smoke when we were. kids. And her hair, she goes, "If you.

can't sleep, you can come watch me. smoke.". And sometimes I. >> That was your That was your Debbie. And. sometimes I would need some sleep. So. I'd be like, "I'm going to sleep today. or whatever." But then [laughter]. probably two days out of the week, I'd. go out there and smoke tell me about her. husband and stuff like that. And her. hair was kind of like this feathered. sort of. >> kind of cut. >> That's a total Robin. >> She like I think she looked exactly like. a man. But she was beautiful though to. me. She was probably one of the hottest. She was a woman that would talk to me. So she was stunning. >> It was incredible. >> God, it was something like that. >> Just to watch a robin smoke. Not the.

bird, but the human a human robin. Um, we talk a lot about your your quote. I. know it's not your quote, but grief is. only love that's got no place to go. >> We talk a lot about that, man, on here. We've mentioned it a few times. Um, you. think you could play that for us? >> I could. Yeah, I'd be happy to. >> Would you mind? >> You take just a second for me to tune up. for it. >> Okay. [music].

[music]. Life is a battlefield. and it'll drag you right [singing]. through hell. Lights like a rattlesnake. The kind that you just don't [music] see. on the trail. And I miss my father every. day. The kind of pain I pray don't fade away.

[music]. for the ones. above. Guide me down a road. Yeah. Grief is. only love that's [singing and music] got. no place to go. From my great grandad in. the ground, [music]. all the ghosts in my home town. together. The ones that [music] find [singing] me. down a road. Yeah. Grief is only love.

that's [music] got no place to go. Yeah. Grief is only love. [music]. The world is a cannonball. [music]. So deal with the feelings you [singing]. can't hide. God gave us alcohol. [music] when we need to leave [singing]. alone inside. I.

don't feel like crying. But I. just keep [music] crying. for the ones. above. to guide me down [singing] a road. Yeah. Grief [music] is only love that's got no. place to go for my great grandad in the. ground. All the ghosts [music] in my.

home town. on. find me down a road. Yeah, grief [music]. is only love. Got no place to go. Yeah. Grief is only. love. [music]. Grief is only love. [music]. Breathe is only.

[music]. [music]. I don't feel like crying, [music] but I. just keep crying. [music] for the ones. above. to guide me down a road. Yeah. Grief is.

on love that got no [music] place to go. Hang on to the. gravel. And the only thing for certain is it's. out of my control. And grief is only love that's [singing]. got no place [music] to go. Yeah. Grief.

is only love that's [music] got no place. to go. Yeah. Grief is only love. [music]. Grief is only love. [music]. Grief is only love. [music]. [music].

[music]. Yeah, [music]. [music]. that's awesome, man. Thank you so much. >> How do we feel? It sound okay? >> It sounds great, dude. Yeah, just thank. you. Yeah, it's just nice. >> Thank you, Theo, for everything, man. Thank you, Trevan. Was that okay? That.

was [ __ ] awesome. [laughter]. >> Wow, >> dude. He's never used profanity in here, >> so he's gonna get into his life. >> Hey, that's what's going on, [laughter]. dude. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much, dude. You're awesome. And I love it. And thank you for sharing. and helping us feel and making it okay. for people to [ __ ] to to to feel stuff. and Yeah. >> Yeah. I think um yeah, it's it's it's. time to feel things because uh what else. do we have if we ain't got feelings? cuz.

I think it's the only thing that. separates us from the robots at this. point. And uh so let's lean into what we. got. >> Amen. Lean into what makes us real. >> Yes, sir. >> Um Stephen Wilson Jr., thank you so. much, brother. >> Thank you. God bless y'all. >> You too. >> Thank you, Theo. >> Amen. >> Now I'm just floating on the breeze and. I feel I'm falling like these leaves. [music] I must be corner stone. Oh, but when I [music] reach that. ground, I'll share this peace of mind I.

found. I can feel it in my. [music and singing].