Robert F. Kennedy Jr. | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #639

Just wanted to let you know our episodes. are now available in video on Spotify as. well. Today's guest is the Secretary for. Health and Human Services for the US. government. He's an attorney, he's an. environmentalist, and he's my friend. I'm so thankful that he is joining us. Today's guest is Mr. Robert F. Kennedy. Jr.

Good to see you, bro. Yes, good to see. you, too. >> Secretary. Secretary now. You You can still call me. Bobby. Okay, cool. You and I I know each. other from Can I say. where we know each. >> Yeah, sure. We've been in recovery for. together for years.

>> You for almost for over 40 years, right? >> Yeah, 40 43 years. Wow. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah, that's where we know That's where. we met each other. Like 7:00 a.m. meetings above the bank over there. That. was a good meeting. >> They shut those down during COVID. >> I know. That was heartbreaking. That was. one of the most. >> still did live meetings every day during. COVID. We moved from the bank. There was about. 15 of us who moved from the bank and we. we we got into the Palisades Playhouse, which now has burned down during the.

during the fire, but it was kind of a. pirate group and you know, [clears throat] I mean, for me. um. I You know what? I said this when I when. we came in and I said, "I don't care. what happens. I'm going to a meeting. every day.". >> Yeah. And I said, "I'm not scared of a. germ. You know, I used to snort cocaine. off of toilet seats.". And then. >> Yeah. I know this disease will kill me. Like if I don't. if I don't treat it, which means going. for me going to meetings every day,

um it's uh uh. it's just bad for my life. So, if for me. it was it's it was survival. And then, you know, that the opportunity. to help another alcoholic, that's the. secret sauce of the meetings, and. uh uh that's what keeps us all sober and. keeps us um. you know, from. from uh. self-will. Yeah. You know. Well, yeah,

you get reminded. I mean, I go to. meetings and I get reminded that other. people ex- like I hate to say exist, but. like just that other people are. just that I'm not alone, I think, you. know? I get like the our our I see face. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I care about this. person. They care about me." It's like. for some reason in my in my addiction, it's like there's a part of me that. forgets that people care about me and. that I care about them. And so, but when I go to meetings, it's. like an immediate it immediately fills. that whole back log in, you know? But I.

have to go and kind of recharge that. battery a lot. Um. you uh welcome to Tennessee. Thank [clears throat] you. Yeah, I saw. you with Kid Rock. Yeah. Pretty cool, dude. That freaking He used to say he. used to have cocaine and oysters. I'm. like, "That's a meal.". >> [laughter]. >> That's a meal, dude. That's an. aphrodisiac, I think. I'm saving a seat. for him, so. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's one of. a kind, man. His brother only has one. leg, too. You know that? I met his. brother, Billy. >> I think he got the vaccine, but that's.

just me. But anyway, he had two of years. ago. That's all I'm saying. >> [laughter]. >> But he he lost his leg when he was a kid. at around the same time my cousin, Teddy, lost his leg. And both of them became um. uh ski racers. So, they were the top I think Ted, my. cousin, Teddy was the number two uh. uh slalom skier for on one leg and he. was also very proficient. So, they. became friends. So, that was. interesting. Wait, so he knows your.

cousin? Yeah, he grew up with him. And. it they were in like a special division. or no, just normal division? What do. they call the Para-. >> Paralympics? Paralympics. >> Billy was a Paralympian. I know he's a. great golfer. I mean, they're just so ho- they're. hilarious guys. >> he golf? Cuz he he doesn't his his leg. is cut off so high. He can't really He. uses a prosthetic. He I mean, I don't. know they had it. uh I know a. a lawnmower. Somebody hit him with a. lawnmower. Look at that right there. >> [laughter]. >> His father ran him over with a tractor.

Yeah. Oh. And Just put him in time out. >> [laughter]. >> But yeah, he's fun. And he has the best. he has the best sense of humor, you. know. I'm just joking. He uh I know both those. guys super well and uh they've been. great like neighbors in uh in Nashville. and um. Kid Rock, Bobby, he's done a lot of nice. stuff for me over the years and stuff. like that and includes me in things and. we're just texting the other day. He's. got a big heart, you know. Yeah, well, he spoke very highly of you. He's a nice. guy. I saw you with Bill Lee, too, our.

governor. Yeah. Yeah, I met him at the He did a. uh fireside chat with me about a year. ago at the governor's conference and I. really. we we really bonded. He's a He's a good. guy and he works with both sides on the. legislature. He's got. um a great relation- and he's done a. bunch of good stuff in this state. He's. gotten you know, he's on top of. fluoride. They got really good. SNAP waiver. So, I think they've got.

probably one of the best SNAP waiver. The SNAP waiver's the food stamp waiver, so you can't spend spend food stamp. dollars on. uh [laughter] sodas. or candy, but they also have. sugar content and they have uh. uh corn syrup content. Oh, here in. Tennessee? Oh, I think that they're the only state. that has that now and they've also. banned food dyes. And a couple of them and they're going. to ban the rest of them now. And what. [clears throat] have we finding out with. food dyes? Like.

Well, the food dyes we've now, you know, we've told the companies they got to get. rid of all of them. There's nine of. them. And the worst four we already banned. Uh the other five, I think by the end of. this year everybody should have stopped. using them. And then we rapid. uh approved four new vegetable dyes so. that they can replace them with, you. know, something healthy. So, we did that. through FDA. We're working with the industry to make. sure that they can do it, but they've.

been very, very cooperative. Most of. them about. 40% of the industry, you know, came to. us including the entire ice cream. industry, came to us and said, "We want. to do this, but, you know, help us." So, we um we're working very closely with. them and they're all getting rid of it. I mean, we should have gotten rid of it. a long time ago. The Europeans don't. allow it. Canada doesn't allow it. Uh other countries uh don't allow You. can buy Fruit Loops in this country that. are just loaded with chemicals and you.

can buy. same company makes Fruit Loops for. Canada and Mexico that don't have the. chemicals. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, there's a kid on on. There's a kid on TikTok and he was. eating Fruit Loops and then his poop was. glowing in the dark. Did you see. [laughter] that? I'm like, "Dang." I think I'll swim. upstream. That's crazy. I mean, but. yeah, that yeah, some of it definitely. seems bonkers. And what did you say. about fluoride? Uh Tennessee has a law that has to where. the the water district has to inform the. public about it. And fluoride is crazy.

cuz we know it reduces IQ. There's no. question. National Toxicology Program has done a. meta-analysis and they can, you know, it. is dose related. So, every um milligram. of fluoride that you had reduced your IQ. more. God. And um How that sounds. And. it doesn't work systemically. You know, it was put in in the '40s. and because it does help with tooth. decay, but the effect is all topical. And back then they didn't have fluoride. toothpaste, they didn't have fluoride.

mouthwash. Now we do. Uh the parents can get the fluoride for. their kids and they don't When you put. it in systematically, it destroys your. bone mass. It. destroys your thyroid. >> for us. It's horrible and it destroys. IQs. I mean, if you have kids. would you rather have them cavities or. or, you know, lower IQ? Yeah, I'd rather. have them have cavities. I'd rather have. holes in their teeth and holes in their. ideas or whatever. >> Right. But the European nations have.

banned it and [clears throat] there has. been no increase in cavities. So. you know, I It doesn't make any sense for us to be. putting it in. And yeah, this is the bill known as the. Tennessee Fluoride-Free Water Act. prohibits public water systems in. Tennessee from adding fluoride or any. fluoride-containing compounds to. drinking water intended for human. consumption and bans the sale of bottled. water with added fluoride. So we don't. have fluoride in our water here? Well, there is natural fluoride in a lot. of water. It's just it comes from the. geology, so it's natural. >> Right. We're not adding it.

Nice, dude. Yeah, because what Yeah, what if you're trying to think of. something and you have two sips of water. and then you're like, "God, I can't even. now. I'm [laughter] screwed." Your parents. send you to take a test, they give you a. bottle of water and you're like, "God, I. don't have a chance now.". Um. but thank you. Thank you for for leading. the charge on a lot of these things. Thank you for caring about a lot of. these things. I think I just want to say. that. I know that you do care about so. many of these things. Um I did see. there's a fall There's a Tennessee Farm. Bill and there's a lot of stuff you want. to talk about, too, and we'll get into. some of it, for sure. Um but this is.

what I was talking about right here. This bill, it's that Yeah, Farm Bill. 809. The bill is sponsored by. Representative Rusty grills would limit. lawsuits if a user gets sick from a. pesticide. Under the proposed. legislation as long as a product's label. was approved by the Environmental. Protection Agency, a person wouldn't be. allowed to sue. over the labeling. So, actually Shawn Ryan, uh the. podcaster, and John Rich, the musician,

they shared this online and on the day. that it was going up for vote, I. believe. Yeah, right here. Tennessee. state politicians side with foreign. pesticide companies over people dying of. cancer, Ryan posted on X alongside a. video speaking out against the bill. As. did musician John Rich, after the. pushback, representative Grills took the. bill off notice, which at least delayed. the vote. It's unclear why that decision. was made or whether Grills has plans to. bring the bill back to this legislative. session. And bring up a just I'll just.

just so we know who's doing this, bring. up a picture of uh Mr. Grills. Oh, there you go. Well, I mean, look, if you're a farmer. and you get sick from using a pesticide. that you didn't know would make you. sick, that you wouldn't have recourse against. a pesticide company that did know that. they caused illness. Cuz these companies. knew that these caused illnesses. Well, yeah. Yeah, evidence from lawsuits, internal documents, and independent. reports indicates that Monsanto had. information suggesting potential risk to.

human health from some of its. pesticides, yet worked for years to. downplay or obscure those risks in. public and regulatory arenas. I mean, that's just wild. The reason they're. doing this is because of my lawsuits. against Monsanto. Right, I remember you. had that huge settlement with the. against them a long time ago, right? >> Yeah. I think it was uh 20 uh maybe. 2019, uh we finally settled it, but. I did three of the trials in San. Francisco.

And the first one we won I think 289. million for you know people who got. non-Hodgkin's lymphoma from using. Roundup. And then the second one we won 89. million. The The third one we asked for. a billion dollars from the jury. It was. a couple that had both got it. simultaneously. They were home. gardeners. And their dog also got it the same time. They had. a laboratory retriever and the dog died. Both the couples were sick. We asked the. jury for a billion dollars.

And they gave us 2.2 billion. And they did that because we were able. to show them documents. that showed Monsanto knew of the danger. and then worked with. corrupt officials, a guy called Jess. Rowland, inside of. EPA who was the head of the pesticide. division. And that. they had deliberately concealed the. science, fixed the science. And now the the big study that they used.

to prove safety has now been retracted. Yeah. Yeah, I think I saw an article about. that like they'd they'd found emails. that they were like. that it was kind of ghost written or. something from the. >> Yeah, it was ghost written and also the. head of the pesticide division they. they asked him the Mon- Monsanto asked. him secretly and now we have these. emails. to kill a study by another agency called. the ATSDR. And he said I can't kill it. It's that's. not my agency. I can kill them in EPA.

but not outside. And they said you got to do it. We can't. have this study go forward. And he said okay, I'm going to do it but. if if I succeed you got to give me a. gold medal. And we had all of that. And we were able to show it to the jury. and they were angry and that's why they. gave us that huge judgment. >> A gold medal in what? Just anything? >> medal for her, you know, killing a study. that showed that it caused cancer. It showed that it caused grew tumors.

>> But it's at a contest level now that. that it's that things like that are so. like prolific that now it's like there's. awards for it, you know, it seems. baffling. Um there's been a ton of. lawsuits about this, right? Like about. pesticides causing. uh diseases and uh sickness in people, right? Um or about this glyphosate, I. think it's called? Yeah, glyphosate. >> There's been a ton of lawsuits, but they. still don't have to take this product. off of the shelves, so that's the. craziest thing to me. Is that right? >> Well, you know, they it's a problem. because. you have um.

all of the row croppers are dependent on. it right now. And there's other technology that is uh. that is emerging right now that. actually, you know, I looked at one. yesterday. It's a tractor attachment that uses. lasers to kill weeds. And that, you. know, if they can make that affordable, particularly for smaller farmers, that. will be the answer cuz you'll be able to. make they they they can kill bugs and. they can kill weeds. Uh you program this thing and it zaps.

the weeds with a lady laser. It makes. the all the cells explode and it. destroys them. And um so that, you know, we there is a. future that we can now see the light at. the end of the tunnel there. But right now, if you end uh glyphosate. outright, it would put out of business. 80% of our farmers. >> Got it. Well, so we're kind of dependent. upon something that we know makes us. sick. Uh yeah, we are. And you know, we're trying to we're doing a lot of. work in the HHS.

to look for other alternatives and to. find a a um you know, find an off-ramp. because the farmers don't want to be. using chemicals anyway. They're very. expensive. They know, you know, they have some of the highest. cancer rates of any profession. Uh. and farmers care about their land. They. want to leave it for their kids. It also. destroys the microbiome in the soil and. that causes erosion. And so it's not a you know it's not a. good long-term solution. Um you know the issue is how do you.

transition off of it without putting. farmers out of business. >> Right. Uh here's that laser. >> that's unbelievable. Laser weeding robot. kills 100,000 weeds per hour. Yeah and. it also kills insects. You can program. it to kill you know certain insects. And you know that machine looks pretty. That machine probably costs a million. dollars. So. um. But if you could have a couple of those. running at night through your farm, that'd be sick. Well yeah, it would be. it's a lot better than using chemical.

pesticides. So this is going to be you. know the future but But we're not there. yet. We're not there yet. Wow. It's just wild that we get stuck into. something that makes us sick and we. don't have a you know it's like I don't. know. It just feels like such a. conundrum. It must be that like that for. you guys a lot where you're like this is. just kind of where we are, you know? Um. The the agricultural community has been. very very supportive of the my agenda. and. um they're helping us transition away. from ultra-processed foods which is.

really the biggest issue. That's what's. causing all these chronic diseases in. kids and farmers are going out of. business. You know farmers usually lose. money seven out of 10 years. Even when they're making money, they're. making you know a lot of them are just. making uh. for their work hours minimum wage. And [clears throat] there's and we're. having a hard time finding young people. who will go into farming. So that is a. crisis that you know we need to uh. we need to keep into consideration.

And [clears throat] and you know you. have people at USDA. finally who are you know really intent. on solving this problem but nobody wants. any farmers going out of business. Got. it. Whenever you became secretary, did it. feel like you like um. now that now you're like on the inside? Like did it Does it feel like you go. behind this curtain and now you get to. see this It does? Yeah. Do you get to. sign an NDA to have the job? >> No. >> [laughter]. >> No. And I mean we're doing the opposite of.

that. We're. You know, this is the most. transparent um. administration in history. I mean. there's no president who's done ever. done three or four press conference a. day like President Trump does asking and. answering any question people fire at. him. >> But we I don't know how many press. conferences President Biden did. in his entire administration. >> know. >> [laughter]. >> But it's a lot less than President Trump. does in a month. Yeah. Oh, for sure. And.

then, you know, we're. I'm. we are right now using AI. to. to revolutionize the Freedom of. Information Act so that people are going. to be able to get Freedom of Information. requests immediately. Like what do you. mean a Freedom of Information request? Yeah, so if somebody wants a document. from the government, now it could take 6. months, 2 years. And we're going to make it so that they. can get it instantaneously. And that all. of our documents are going to be public.

except those that are. uh shielded under the statute for, you. know, for one reason or another. And the the big. um. issue that, you know, the big problem. that we're dealing with is that. uh there is in the you know, that there. there are names and privacy issues and. you have to redact those. Legally, we have to do that and we have. to make sure we don't make any mistakes. So the AI is, you know, that's what. we're working out now.

Whenever when you got in office, there. was you guys did like a big cut down of. like a lot of the divisions and stuff. like that. What was I think you went. from 20 something to 15, maybe? 20. >> we had 82,000 employees and 20,000 of. them left. And they left. >> 20,000 of them left or did you guys make. like cuts cuz I I just knew that you. guys made like a bunch of cuts. >> cuts that were buyouts so that people. who were at the end of their career. could retire early. Um there were riffs where people were. people who were very new were let go.

And it was about uh reducing the. workforce but it was reducing the. bureaucracy. We weren't reducing. we weren't getting rid of um of research. or anything like that. We didn't touch. that except. if there were certain categories of. research like DEI research or there were. other categories that were just. it was [clears throat] not real science. and it was not science you know we're. we're changing the trajectories of that.

the purpose of NIH the focus of NIH. is going to be figuring out why we're. all so sick. You know why is this. chronic disease happening? What are the. exposures that are causing it? What are the alternatives? How do we end. it? And so we're shifting the focus but. we're uh the amount that we're spending. on research is the same that we spent, you know, in 2020 2019. Was there like a. recalibrating there cuz like I had a. friend Heather who was working at UCLA. She was a researcher there and she said.

that like a lot of the journal like the. DOJ period and stuff a lot of their. grants got cut and there was like a like. a kind of a I don't know if it's called. a moratorium or like a pause. It was a. pause and every administration does. that. You need to do a review and make sure. that there uh that that those research. projects are not, you know, torturing beagles or you know, or doing. DEI or. um. And how do you decide that? Is it do you. decide or is it like. >> go through every single grant.

We had you know, big teams going through. those grants and. and then with there's tremendous there's. tremendous ways. We had 40. communications departments. We had 40 different um Gosh. uh. divisions studying addiction. And so we. consolidated those. So there wasn't you. know you have 10 people. doing the same job and not talking to. each other with computers that are. internet that are not interoperable. Oh,

it's the government. Yeah, and we're. changing that now. So that you know we. consolidated and we're making it more. streamlined and efficient. Uh. it's so that we can do the job better. So we can do better research and then. the research you know was never. replicated. And which means that that's part of. science. And if somebody does a paper. that makes a scientific hypothesis. uh you don't just accept that. You get.

somebody to replicate it and see if they. come up with the same result. And that was not happening. There was no. virtually no money spent on replication. And because of that there was huge. incentives to cheat. Because scientists if they have a. hypothesis. and they do they get a grant maybe. hundreds thousand maybe millions of. dollars to prove that hypothesis. And then they once they prove it they. get it published and that's how they. advance their careers.

Well, if they fail to prove it if the. science says what you were thinking is. not true. then they can't get published. They you. should publish that too because that's. science you know, but. it doesn't get published. So their. careers are you know and it endangered. it's hard for them to get the next. grant. And so a lot of them had this incentive. to cheat. Oh, so they have to win. If. they get it if they prove it Yeah, the. hypothesis is a null hypothesis they.

don't get they you know their whole. future goes into the toilet. Potentially. And. and so because they they knew that study. was never going to be replicated, nobody. was going to check on them. It was an incentive for them to cheat. And. >> And that must have been a pipeline just. for companies then to just get it like. get like Well, it was also. >> lopsided lopsided science or or. solo-sided science that wasn't. like. >> Yeah, I mean, I'll give you an example.

There was a study done about 20 years. ago on amyloid plaque and that as the. cause of Alzheimer's. And that study came up and said, yeah, it's the cause of Alzheimer's. And we spent billions of dollars doing. six or 800 studies that followed that. And they all were as it turned out, they. were all cheating. And you know, the. ones that were. many of them were cheat cheating, but. all of them were kind of confirmatory.

And all of their hypothesis was cause. Alzheimer's was ignored, put on the. shelf. You couldn't get money for it because. they said we already know the answer. And then there were drugs developed, etc. And um. And the and the end, you know, we came. in we and this scandal was brewing. The head of Stanford University. Medical School had to they knew what was. going on? >> Because he was involved in publishing.

some of these fraudulent studies. And um but they did it for 20 years. because nobody ever had to really. replicate those original studies. And that happens all the time and you go. down these scientific dead ends. And and. so now what Jay wants to do is to spend. 20% of our budget on replication. So. that every study gets replicated and we. know Jay Bhattacharya who is the. >> Okay, yeah, I I who you're talking. about. >> And he was one of the guys who was. censored during COVID. He was. one of the top.

statisticians at Stanford and he and a. lot of other ones were, you know, were. censored, were lost their jobs. Marty Makary, who you know, also. >> his book. One of his books I read. >> he was also censored. Oz was censored. And they're now running the agency. So, these are people who wanted to real. science and not politicize it, to people. politicize the science. Uh we had 10 people doing, you know, these bureau administrative jobs and now.

we're we've we've cut that down to five, you know, so. uh. all the cuts that we did were meant to. streamline the agency so that there's. more money for research. >> Got it. Like after the pauses on the. grants and and some of those things, are. you The grants were were were renewed. Most of the ones are the ones that you. guys seemed that you guys thought were. viable. Yeah, almost all of them. Got. it. When I want to add some Bitcoin, MoonPay.

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>> Yeah. Have you. >> is true in every system. Yeah. Have you. seen a lot of that like um I mean, the. Emerald Black is a really good example. Uh yeah, we see it everywhere. We we see. it everywhere. In medicine, it's. everywhere. And the journals are utterly corrupt. because they're owned by the. pharmaceutical companies. And so people. read a journal and they think, "Oh, this. is science." But. even, you know, Marcia Angell, who won. the ran the New England Journal of. Medicine for 20 years, has said,

"You can't believe anything in the. journals anymore. They're just. propaganda vessels for the. pharmaceutical company." Richard Horton, who ran Lancet, who still runs it, says the same thing. At the uh you know, the journals have. been corrupted. >> are the people running them? Well, what happens is they make huge. amounts of money. And they make money. from advertising, which is paid for. pharmaceutical companies. And through a scheme called preprints, where the pharmaceutical company. plants a story, they pay for the journal.

about a drug that they're trying to. promote. They um they pay the journal to. print the story. And then they get a preprint. So it's a. a very neat-looking, you know, copy of. their article with the. cover sheet of the New England Journal. of Medicine on it. And then. they distribute that to their. pharmaceutical reps, who are like, you. know, former Playboy models, who go out. and talk to the doctors. And they give. that to the doctor and say, "This drug. works, you know, do you want to have.

lunch?". Yeah. And the doctors then start. prescribing the drug and they think, "Oh, well, it's legitimate cuz it was in. the New England Journal of Medicine.". But it is not. It's you know, you can't. believe what's in those journals cuz. it's all. propaganda for for a pharma. So how do. we get away from that? Like how what are. you guys doing to combat this? Or just. to to change this? Or can this change? Or is it just awareness and then people. have to take the responsibility? >> No, I mean, what we're doing is a. open-source journals.

We're going to have our own journals. that, you know, that um people can. open-source and publish, but you'll have. the peer review published with it. So before you publish, you give it the. you give that publication to a panel of. experts who then read it themselves and. criticize it. And the peer review now is secret. And. um. >> [clears throat]. >> and and there's no raw data published, so nobody can go in and replicate it. So, to the extent possible, sometimes.

you you can't. you have to buy the raw data and it's. very expensive or inaccessible, so you. can't publish it. >> Mhm. Um but you can publish the peer review, which is what we're doing. And so, everybody will be able to say if they. have 10 peer reviewers and they all say. this article sucks, it's got all these holes in it, then the. public will be able to read that and. doctors will be able to read it and the. regulators will be able to read it. >> [sighs]. >> And um so, it's basically open source.

It's, you know, it's crowdsourcing. essentially. And it, you know, that's. how you get credibility in science. Science doesn't come from consensus. It. comes from debate. And, you know, you. That's why you remember when they were. telling us during COVID, oh, trust the. experts. Mhm. That's not a thing in. science. Trusting the experts is the. opposite of science. That is not a. function of science or democracy. It's a. feature of religion. And it's a feature of totalitarianism.

And in science, you always question the. expert. >> Yeah, you can't There's not an expert in. science cuz it's like an evolving thing, right? >> Well, you know, when I did the Monsanto. cases, I was part of a you know, big. team. Uh we had. And Sheryl came to my to my uh trial. I. could you know, a couple days she sat. through and watched us try the case. And Monsanto had experts from Stanford, Yale, and Harvard. The three big.

experts. And they testified and Sheryl said to me. at the end of the second day, she said, "Why are you guys even here? These guys. are, you know, this science is very. clear that Monsanto and Roundup doesn't. cause cancer.". And I said, "Just wait." And then our. experts went on, and they were from. Harvard, Stanford, and Yale. And they said the opposite and were much. more convincing, and the juries were. convinced. And so there's experts on both sides of. every debate, and a lot of them are paid.

to be experts. They're hired guns, they're mercenaries. And uh we call them biostitutes, the. ones that. that work for industry, the ones that. work for industry. >> Biostitutes, that's great. Uh but, you. know, so there's. >> [laughter]. >> experts out there on bi- We all have. biases. Everybody's got a bias. What you want to do when you're, you. know, when you're dealing with science, you want to expose those biases. You. want to admit them and acknowledge them, and then you want to the science to be. able to stand on its own. Mhm.

And that would That's the only way. really to depoliticize it as best we. can. Right. What were some of the biggest cases of. fraud? Like when you got in there and. got behind the curtain see like, you. know, like the NIH, the EPA, like all it. just see what's going on back here. What. were some of the biggest cases of fraud. that you kind of found? >> the biggest cases are what were We got. Between Medicaid and Medicare, there's. about a hundred billion stolen every. year. And a lot of it is um like what's.

happening in Minnesota with the Somali. community and what's happening now even. worse in California. But you know, one of the problems is that. that's a systemic problem is that. um Medicaid and Medicare now no longer. They used to be. that they [laughter]. that they paid for your medical. treatment, your doctor's visit. But now they pay. for the person.

who takes you to the doctor, And they. pay [clears throat] for home care, and. they pay for. um you know, a person to come in and pay. your bills, right? So, there there's. there's all kinds of opportunities for. fraud. And a doctor recently, you know, Oz told. me this told Oz. he said. there's a doctor in California that he. visited, and the doctor had a patient. who was a heroin addict. Heroin addict was coming to see him four.

times a month for some kind of a. treatment. And one day he looked the doctor looked. out the door and saw his ex-wife waiting. for him in the car. And [clears throat] the doctor said, "Oh, are you back together with your. ex-wife?" And he said, "No, I hate her. guts." And he said, "But she drives me. because she gets paid $600 every time. she drives me.". >> Wow. And he said. >> How are you back together with your ex? >> We make $3,000 a month, you know, with. her driving me there, and then I drive. her to hers. Wow. And so, there's all.

kinds of those opportunities for fraud, and you know, we found. a. hotel. that had literally every room in it was. the headquarters for a nursing group. Where was that located? >> in California. God. And you know, so. they're all just P.O. boxes. They're not. actually doing any nursing care. Uh-uh. They're just collecting money, and as we. now know, a lot of the money that was,

you know, was was going into the Somali. community for autism care. There were. these phony autism care houses. Yeah. And a lot of it was ending up with. al-Shabaab in in Somalia. So, hundreds. of millions of dollar billions of. dollars were being stolen, shipped to Somalia to um to fund a. terrorist group. And but that's. happening every day. Now we have the. ability to catch them. How? How are you. able to adjust that sort of thing now?

Like like what makes it different now? >> Well, because first of all, under the. Biden administration, I don't want to. get super partisan. >> Yeah. Um but the Biden administration. turned a blind blind eye to all the. fraud. It was mainly going to blue. states and it was an economic generator. There's money pouring into the blue. states and um. they they just said we're going to we. know a lot of it's stolen and illegal, but we're going to let it happen.

Cuz it's coming to us. It's coming to. our state. And so what we've done now is with. Medicare, we control Medicare. The. states control a lot of Medicaid. So. it's harder a little bit harder for us. to detect fraud there. We started out with Medicare. We're. using AI and we're using AI which can. detect the fraud. You know, it can. detect it can tell us. whether this guy who is who we're paying. has been convicted of fraud before and.

you know, we shouldn't be paying him. again. And it it will be telling telling us. every aspect of his business that we. need to know to to understand whether. it's fraudulent. So we're going to save. just this year. tens of billions of dollars in. eliminating fraud in Medicaid. And it used to be that under the Biden. administration, the system was called. pay and chase. So if they sent in a fraudulent invoice, we even if we knew it was the HHS knew.

it was fraudulent, they would pay it and. then they would put the Inspector. General to go claw it back. And of. course, it wasn't there but they so they. never recovered anything. >> Oh, I see. Now [clears throat] we're not going to. pay him anymore. If they're fraudulent, they're going to get they're not going. to get a check. We're going to save tens of billions of. dollars just this year and we're going. to save hundreds of billions of over, you know, annually from now on. And. that's because the AI is keeping track. of that? >> AI can spot the fraud. Got it. And and.

with Medicare, with Medicaid, um which. is, you know, a joint state federal. program, it's a little bit We don't control the. rails and the states control them and so. we need state cooperation and the red. states are cooperating with us, but the. blue states still won't cooperate. So, that's going to take some time and then. there's categories. that are much easier for us to control. like medical devices. We We can do that.

quickly on our own, but there's other. categories that are going to be much. more difficult, but we will get it done. within the next 3 years. Whenever DOGE happened, right? When DOGE. occurred, when Elon was in or he was. involved or hypothetically involved, that's what it seemed like just like to. the regular person. >> involved. >> He was involved. Was that successful? Was that real? Like what was the. outcomes of that? Like. did that seem like a. Were you guys working together with. that? Like what was that all about? I, [clears throat] you know, I think even.

Elon has said that, um. there would have been better ways to do. it. And now we. You know, going after the systemic what. we're doing now, this is the You know, the these large thefts. You can cut a couple of thousand people. and over the long run, it's just, you. know, drops of water in the ocean. >> Yeah. So, that's not going to save us huge. amounts of money over the long term, but. what we're doing now is going to. The things you were just talking about,

you mean? Yeah. That's going to help a lot. >> Yeah. Is DOGE still active? Is that. program still active? What were the outcomes of that? Well, the outcomes were that a lot of, you. know, the. I cut my workforce by 20%. But, you know, in truth, of them um. it's some of those were very good cuts. It would have to I think we all agree, including Elon, that it would have been. better to do targeted cuts. You know, cut the people who were.

actually [clears throat]. um causing the problem and then keep the. people a lot of the new workers who, you. know, who were only there for a couple. of months. Um. that it might have been better to keep. some of those people and change the. culture. I see. So, yeah, instead of. more of like a mowing, more of like a. pruning kind of thing, you mean? Yeah. Do you think. America is sicker than ever these days? It is sicker. We're the sickest country. in the world. We have the highest.

chronic disease burden in the world. And that's one of the reasons during. COVID we had um. 19% of the COVID deaths in our country. And we only have 4.2% of the world's. population. And um so, the the question is, why did. America do worse than any country in the. world in COVID? Was it mismanaging? Part. of it was that, but the big part and. this is what CDC says, we're the sickest country in the world. The average American who died from COVID.

had 3.8 chronic diseases. And that's. really what was killing them. It was. very hard to die from COVID if you were. healthy. And [clears throat] um. and so, you know, we need to get. Americans healthy. We need to end the. chronic disease epidemic right now. We spend two to three times on our. health care per capita what they spend. in Europe. And yet we have the worst health. outcomes in the world. We're 79th. >> up. Bring up a capital chart if you can.

Um we have the. you know, we've dropped behind Europe by. by six years in lifespan, 10 years in. some cases. And yet our health outcomes are worse. with the maternal immunity. highest maternal mortality. That means. women dying in childbirth in the. developed world. We have the highest. infant mortality. How could that be with. the United States? And a lot of it is because of chronic. disease and then, you know, our diabetes. rates.

When I was a kid, typical pediatrician. would see one case of diabetes over. juvenile diabetes over a 40 or 50-year. career. Today, 38% of American teens is diabetic. or pre-diabetic. God. It's unknown. Autism rates have gone from. less than one in 10,000 in 1970 to. one in 31 today. >> Oh, yeah. You can throw a rock and hit. an autistic kid anywhere. >> In California, it's one in every 19.

kids, one in every 12.5 boys. And so, this the cost our country 77% of. American kids can't qualify for military. service. How many percent? >> 77% cannot get into the military because. of the reason. No. >> Why? >> That is the truth. Yeah, and Oh my god, bro. That's insane. >> And I that should get people's. attention. >> Bring that up. Is that true? Let me see. if that's true. Bobby probably just uploaded this stat.

on the internet from his phone a second. ago, but still that's okay. That's how. it works. 77% of American youth can't qualify for. military service. Yeah. And why why? Because they have. chronic disease. They have asthma, they. have diabetes, they have, you know, um. They are they're obese. Um one of those, but. when my uncle was president, I was a. 10-year-old kid. We spent zero on chronic disease in this. country, zero. Today, we spend 4.3.

trillion a year. And um it's about 40 cents out of every. tax dollar. that is paid by you to the federal. government is now going to treat chronic. disease. And it's uh it's unsustainable and it's. getting worse every year. And who's is. it is it. do you find that it falls more on it's. the responsibility of the individual, we're not taking care of ourselves, or. is it that we have a health uh system. that is allowing uh.

like I don't want to just say foods and. drugs, but allowing. things into us that is not maintaining. our natural health? >> I mean individuals have a. responsibility, but. you know, you see when when I was a kid. 5% of kid children were obese. Yeah, you. had one kind of fat kid in your class. >> Yeah, and today it's uh you know, 15%. it's going. overweight is at 40%. Uh adults it's even higher. We should. just have a thick military then, I.

think. >> But people did not get. Americans did not get obese because. they're indolent or lazy or they don't. want to do exercise. They got that way. cuz they're being mass poisoned. And they're being mass poisoned because. the government lied to them and it lied. about the food. Uh um now. 70% of the food that our kids eat is. ultra-processed food and it's just. poison. It's not food, it's just poison. >> And which agencies allowed that? I mean,

the EPA puts labels like the FDA. Yeah. So, do you feel like that's been one of. the most compromised agencies? Yeah, it. was owned by big pharma and big food and. we're you know, Marty Makary has changed. that now. >> [snorts]. >> So, how do we know that that's changed? Like how do we as like a Look at the. food pyramid. And they you know, the food pyramid. when I came into office, we were. supposed to publish. in January of last year Oh yeah, the. last food food pyramid also had vapes on. it. So, it was getting pretty bad, you.

know. >> now. You know, you mean the food. pyramid? Oh, the last one, yeah. The one. that yeah, [laughter] a few years ago. That's funny. I was like, this is. getting bad. Uh uh uh. food pyramid so when I came in, we were. uh the. I administration had prepared new. dietary guidelines. And they they were 453 pages long and. they were. completely driven by the same mercantile. impulses that put Fruit Loops at the top. of the food pyramid.

How do you put Fruit Loops, which is not. a food, at the top of the food pyramid? It's just poison. Yeah. And that but it was all driven by the. commercial interests of the companies. that controlled FDA. So when we came in, we we went we got the best nutritionists. from the best universities in our. country. We basically locked them in a. room. We We thought it would take a. month, but it took about 11 months. They fought over every single item on. this in the food pyramid.

>> It took them 11 months to put this. together? Yeah, because there you have. to go over science, you know, what is. broccoli? Right. How does it relate to. how much protein should you eat? How. much saturated fat should you eat? What's optimal? And so they had to go. through tens of thousands of scientific. papers. to make sure that every recommendation. that we made is based solidly on a. foundation of gold standard science. So. for this this So this for them to create. the food pyramid, it took 11 months?

Yeah, and then we flipped it over. So. we flipped it over because the category. of food that you should eat, you know, most is a broad category. It includes. vegetables, it includes proteins, you. know, salmon and steak and. And most of this is for children, right? Well, no, it's good for everybody. I. mean. most diabetes. >> I remember from like when I was a kid, you know, you would see it, you know? >> Yeah. Right. >> But I guess that's the first point you. learn about it. That's and that's why.

we're all so screwed up. Um but the you know, most diabetes can. be cured through diet. And the doctors don't know this because. they don't take most of them aren't. taking nutrition in medical school. And we're now requiring or we're working. with the medical with the accreditors. and with the testing, the people who do. the MCAT to make sure there's tests on. nutrition. We're working with all the medical. colleges to um make sure that now.

doctors going to have 40 hours. of nutrition in school. 80% of doctors. say they do not feel competent. to give nutrition advice. So, what are. they what are they learning? They're. learning pharmacology. >> Right. They're learning the pill. Let. everybody get sick from eating the food. and then tell them the pill that will. treat that sickness. Yeah, at that point. you're just a drug dealer. >> can get rid of the diagnosis. Not only. that, but now, you know, there's there's. really clear signs that you can get rid.

of mental health diagnoses. It that food. can cure mental health problems. There's. a a doctor at. Harvard, Dr. Pollan, who is who has. cured schizophrenia with dietary. changes, with keto diets. Um there's a paper that that in that. >> Is that true? Yeah, go ahead and look it up. Cure. schizophrenia with keto diets? >> Yeah. Well, I definitely notice that if. um when I'm fasting, I get I'm pretty. smart. Yeah, you get smarter, right? >> Yeah. Preliminary clinical findings including.

case reports and small trials suggest. that ketogenic therapy may improve. positive and negative symptoms, cognitive performance outcomes in. individuals with schizophrenia spectrum. disorders. I mean, I believe that so much of this. is true just like like. that so much of it is how we are. operating. Um it just feels like we've been stuck. in such a place where we have a. like you have you have a food industry. that doesn't care if you're healthy and. then you have a health care industry. that doesn't care if you get well. >> making money from us being sick.

>> [snorts]. >> And I I'll say one other thing about. this. There are all these There are. dozens and dozens of studies and you can. look them up. Uh. they're case control studies of juvenile. detention facilities and prisons. where they change for example in one. wing the diet [clears throat] to real. food and they leave the other diet in. there and that the disciplinary. the fighting, the violence drops. precipitously. The use of restraints in. one. juvenile detention facility dropped by.

75%. Usually the violence. uh drops by 40 or 50%. And you know, people it caused. depression, it caused anxiety these. foods. You know, if your kid has. anxiety, look at what they're eating. And you can change that in many cases by. changing their diet and getting them to. eat real food. Yeah. How how do you get. the everyday person then. to adjust their psychology or like their. thought like about taking more of an.

interest in themselves, you know? Cuz I. think you you used to just be you. trusted the commercials. You're like, this is great for you. No, it's like and. you believed that, you know? Yeah, I mean the way to change human. behavior is one, get information out. there that's real information. The other. thing that you have to do. is you have to change the economic. incentives and. um right now we have perverse incentives. that reimburse doctors that you know, that insures, pharmaceutical companies,

the doctors, the hospitals are more. making more money. if you're sick. The rehab drug rehabs. If you come back if you come back, if. you relapse. they make more money, right? They. shouldn't be paid that way. The. insurance company should pay them one. lump sum. and then then follow that addict for the. next 2 years and every time he comes. back you got to treat him for free. And that will incentivize them to. >> better treatment. >> Yeah, to do treatment that works and the. ones that can't do that will fail and.

the ones that can do it they get better. and better at it will do it. You change the economic incentives. you'll change human behavior and then. you have to get the information to the. individual and that's what we're doing. We're doing we've um met we've convened. the 400 top tech companies before this. administration. you could not get your own health. records. So, you own your health records but you. couldn't see them. You can't get a hold. of What do you mean? Why not? Because. they would information block you. They.

would make sure you couldn't get them. And now we've got them all to agree. they're going to stop the information. blocking. All your medical records will be on your. cell phone and that is great for you. because if you live in Nashville. and you travel to Los Angeles you get. hit by a car. you don't want to spend an hour in the. emergency room with a clipboard making. out you know one of those forms. Yeah. You hand your cell phone to the doctor. he puts it in. AI and he knows what your blood type is.

what your allergies are what your. contraindications you know previous. treatments etc. >> Yeah, it is ridiculous you have to do. that all the time. Right. So, you what President Trump said to me is. he said I want to make every American. the CEO of their own health. And that they're in charge of it. And. then we're doing you know we've gotten. now we've changed the prior. authorization. We've got 80% of the. insurance industry. together to eliminate all unnecessary. prior authorization which is going to.

change the the. the experience that every American has. with the health care system. As when you go to a doctor. he says you need a knee surgery. You may. wait 6 months for your insurance company. to approve it. You can't do anything about it. And now. we by the end of this year. you will know at the point of care, that. means before you leave your doctor's. office, you'll know whether your. insurance company will cover that.

And. >> [clears throat]. >> um that's going to dramatically change. We are also. >> But does that make it any more likely. that they're going to cover it or does. it just make it that you're going to. know? >> it so that you'll know and so the doctor. will know there before you leave. >> Got it. And the doctor will change the. prescription or whatever you need to do. You'll at least know and you won't be, you know, sitting at home and then the. other. >> actually going to happen? That's. happening, yeah. And then. the other thing that we're doing is. we're doing price transparency so that. every hospital.

will have to publish its prices for. every procedure. >> the patients view them? >> Exactly. And that's just make you the. CEO of your own health. They already are. supposed to do that, right? >> a law that Trump passed in his first. term but I never enforced it so none of. the hospitals do it. We have now passed new regulations that. is going to punish them in a draconian. way if they don't do it. So they're all. going to be doing it by the end of this. year. >> Are they going to try to find a way to. skirt around that though, I wonder? Like. are they. >> Well, there it's No, but it's so screwed.

up because. if you go buy a buy an automobile and. the guy tells you, "Yeah, but I'm not. going to tell you the price until after. you bought it.". >> Yeah, it's insane. You'd be, you know, and right now if you're pregnant in this. country. you could go 9 months on the phone every. day trying to figure out what the. childbirth is going to cost you in your. local hospital and and not be able to do. it. >> Yeah. And we are bound to go online with a. system that will make all procedures. visible to every patient. So I actually.

looked at the mock-up. 2 days ago for um uh for New York. and it shows a map of Manhattan and a. mile. around Manhattan, and there's 30. hospitals. And it shows the price of childbirth at. every hospital. The lowest one is 1,300. The highest. 22,000. And there's everything in. between, 9,000, 5,000, 3,000. >> can look and see. You can look and see. >> You'll be able to go to a menu online. >> like GasBuddy when you're looking for,

you know, gas station, but you're going. to be able to do that. >> bathroom or whatever that clean bathroom. or whatever you use? That one, that. one's crazy. And they lie on there. And. some of them are at rest areas, [laughter] too. And I yeah, I got. accosted by a guy who was in a I guess. he was like a Easter but he was like a. Easter Bunny like impersonator or. whatever. Um anyway, whatever. Good to. be here today. Um. So you're telling me that that's going. to be a real thing. That's going to be. available to us on our phone. So say if. you I need to get an MRI, I can look. online and I can see. >> and find. And right now there's no way.

that you can figure out the price of it. >> lie to you. And but if you but if you. call them and say, "Okay, I'm not going. to come." I've had. experiences where they will call you. back and then will offer you a lower. rate. Yes. >> Yeah, but they're all playing that game. And now they're not going to be able to. do it anymore. >> How soon is that going to be released? >> It's going to be released very, very. soon, in the next couple of months. All. the hospitals now have to come online. and start reporting. And the ones that. don't do it immediately, we are going to. have very, very high fines for them. So.

there's going to be big incentive for. them to start it. Start reporting. But it also is going to. drive down prices because why is there. that absurd differential between 1,300. and 22,000? >> Just cuz we don't know. >> Because we don't know, so there's no. market, so they do whatever the hell. they want. And now. there's going to be competition because. people will be able to shop. But won't. there be lobbyists that are aren't there. lobbyists fighting you? I mean, right. here it says, "Here's compiled a list of. example of hospitals and childbirth. costs in Nashville based on available.

self-pay cash bundles. Um Ascension Saint Thomas is 4,800 to. 7,800. National General is 10,000 to 15,000. >> why is it. Yeah. It's just chaos. It's chaos. >> There's no market there. Yeah, but I mean it it's unbelievable. And this happens at every single It can. be something as small as getting like an. aspirin when you're in the hospital. It. can be anything where they just bill you. later and like, "Oh, it's a $70. aspirin.". >> Or they'll say to you, "You know, if you. want, you can spend an extra day here.

You look sick. You look like you could. use the rest.". And you'll say, "I'll do that." And then. you get a $100,000 bill. >> That's crazy. Yeah, and they only have fluorescent. lights in there. >> the Four Seasons. >> Yeah, >> [laughter]. >> I know. Yeah. For yeah, for 4 years. At that rate. Um so that's So that's. actually going to come into play. Yeah, that will be in play. And what's that. going to be called? How will we access. it? >> It's called uh. uh. Trump price transparency. I think we're calling it Trumparency.

Really? No. Oh. I mean, a Trump name he would. [laughter] I mean, he would name it that. in a heartbeat, you know. Uh that's hilarious though. Trumparency, [laughter] dude. Oh, it's opaque. What does opaque mean actually? Look it. up. I don't know if I landed that. >> Opaque is not transparent. Yeah. So did. I land [clears throat] that right or. not? >> It's somewhere in the middle there. >> It's halfway transparent. >> Yeah, there you go. Hey. What what what what was that? That's somebody in boots.

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That's See, that's one of the most. important things. That's something that. that uh that we've been talking about in. here for probably like a year and a half. now, 2 years, is the price transparency. Power to the Patients, that's one of the. groups that's like helping to push that, I know. Um. Who are the people that are lobbying so. hard for these things not to happen? Well, there were a lot of people in the. agency who were, you know, obstructing. any kind of change. And, [clears throat]. you know, part of the challenge of. running an agency this this size is to.

is to change that, you know, the. institutional culture. And, you know, it's you're only bringing. in There's you know, 82,000 people. We. only have 250 political appointees. So, they have to be good leaders. They. have to be able to work with the. bureaucracy. You need the bureaucracy. A. lot of these people are very gifted. They're idealistic. They want to do a. good job. Uh the leadership has been very bad for.

so long that um it's, you know, it's not. allowed them to do what they want. And I. And, [clears throat] you know, we need. to reignite that feeling of idealism. Do you feel good about it? Yeah, I think. we're doing a really good job. I mean, I. think we've done more. this year than any health secretary has. done in history. that HHS has done in a single year at. any time. And I think we're dramatically.

uh changing the um. the relationship between Americans and. their health care system. But, you know, it's like turning a. a giant oil tanker. You have to keep. hitting it and hitting with the tugboat. in the bow. And then ultimately, it will start to. turn. And then, know, you hit that. um. you hit it just enough times that it'll. flip them flip fast, and things change. I know before you leave you had there's. a lot of like stuff that's focused. around addiction, right? What do you.

want to say about where do you think. that we're headed with that? Some of the. new things that you guys are going to. try to implement like with with part of. your new program. Like what are some of. the new implementations or some of the. new focuses that you want to have people. look at when they look at addiction? Yeah, I mean there. the problem with addiction is that. the cost of the addict, you know, we. what at at at HHS we're the fiduciary. the medical cost of the addict. So, we. can look and say, "Okay, if we can cure.

you from addiction, you know, I have a cousin who. you know, Patrick Kennedy and who was in. Congress, but he did he had 17 rehabs, and he was telling me. during that period of his life he was at. the emergency room every 2 weeks, and he. had. oh, he had an irritated bowel syndrome, and he had contusions, and he had all of. these, you know, other. illnesses that he didn't even associate. with addiction, but they're all. associated with it, and you know that,

you know, Oh, yeah, it gets deep. So, and he said in 15 years that he's been. sober he's never been to the emergency. room once. Wow. And so, HHS is able to. look at those costs and those. trajectories and all those collateral. damage in the health care system. The addict's costing elsewhere a lot. more money with law enforcement, with. broken families, with, you know, lost. jobs, and inefficiencies, and those. aren't internalized anywhere. And what we're trying to do is bring.

together all of the agencies, the VA, labor, HUD. and HHS, all the agencies of HHS. together to look at that addict and then. follow him over. if somebody is responsible for following. him over the lifespan of his addiction. And nobody does that. And so now is the. same problem that we have with the. health care system. is that it's everybody's bad financial. benefit to keep that addict sick.

[clears throat] Sick. Cuz everybody's making money from them. And. and so and you don't have anybody who's. accountable for the outcome. And what you need to do is, you know, we're doing these pilot programs called. street in eight different locales to. figure out how to do this, to bring all. the agencies together. to do our early interventions, confront. the addict on the street, um get them out of crisis, into. treatment, out of treatment into, you. know, rehab, out of rehab into sober.

housing, long-term care, help them find a job, and stabilize. their lives, and have one person who's. responsible for that whole trajectory. >> Amen. Yeah, because when it goes piecemeal. like that, it's just like it's easy for. people to just. >> them off. And then everybody checks the. boxes. Yeah. And everybody. >> I found him a house. Okay, he's still. shooting up. He's pulling the copper, well, you know, piping out to pay for his addict, that's. not my business. Right? That's law. enforcement, that's somebody else.

Well, thank you. I just I I I. I think it's amazing you care so much. about that. And yeah, I just yeah, for. the the chance that people can get well. and change their lives. Uh before you. go, Bobby, you and I have been friends. and I I've always trusted you and I've. always, you know, I believe in you and I. just know you as a person and I know. this is a guy that at certain points in. your life, I think you just have to make. choice like this is a guy I believe in, right? Like for as much as you can. believe in a human being, you know, at. like acceptable levels. Um who are some other. like congressmen and senators on either.

side of the aisle that you believe that. we can that. regular people like me can trust. People. that I There's There's a ton of congress. people who are incredible and. they're actually too many to to even. name to start naming because there's so. many good ones. But in the Senate, Ron Johnson, who you know, is fantastic. Roger Marshall from Kansas is fantastic. Um Mark. Wayne Mullens. Um.

Uh the president isn't crazy about Rand. Paul, but Rand Paul's been real really. good on a lot of my issues. Uh um and you know, there's a lot of. other ones too. So, you know, I don't. >> Senator Hawley? Have you Have you. familiar with him? Yeah. Yeah, and he's great. Um. You know, I've had tremendous support. from the Senate from the Republicans in. the Senate. The Democrats who've been my. friend of my whole lifetime are, you. know, it's just so tribal now.

that um. people, you know, are not able to follow. their conscience. They need to They need. to. ask their handlers, all that. Well, they. need to be part of the, you know, the. the clash of tribal narratives. And you. know, my family is the same way. Uh um You know, I lost a lot of family. and a lot of friends and you know, my. the Democratic senators were all my. friends.

Ernie was my friend and etc. But now. um. they are, you know, they're just locked. in if the area if you have you have. anything to do with Trump, you're you. know, you're demonized and vilified. And like President Trump says, he said, "If I get cancer, they'd still find. something wrong with me.". And I think that's true. They were not, you know, we're we're locked in this. very very polarized space that is not. good for our country. Um when my uncle was in there,

everything he did was bipartisan. He was there for 50 years and you know, he did he had more legislation under his. name than any senator in history. And it's because he was able to work. across the aisles, but no matter who you. are now, you can't work across the. aisles. So we're locked in this deadlock. and it's very. it's. it's troubling. Um but you know, that. it's just the reality of where we are. Whenever you kind of got behind the.

curtain, was there any more information. for you there about any of the. assassination attempts that had happened. with your family or anything like that? >> No, I mean my Like did they give you any. more like unredacted statements? Like. was there anything like that? >> No, I mean the President Trump has. ordered all that stuff to be released. and in fact it was. some stuff that I asked him not to. release and he said, "No, I'm releasing. all of it." And the reason I didn't want. to release is because there was um. it was information in some of the.

telegrams. um that could have. jeopardized a um. uh people who are still alive. On a completely different issue, but it seemed to me that it was you. know, that it's it was. worth withholding a couple of these. documents. The reason I knew a lot about. it is because my daughter-in-law, Amaryllis Fox Kennedy. ran my campaign and is now the deputy.

director of of national intelligence and. she's the chief of. uh national intelligence at OMB and she. was given the responsibility. uh by President Trump of um of releasing. all the JFK files and she's been. thinking about this for years. She was. in the CIA. Um that's wild. Is she Oh, I met her. Yeah, you've met her. Um but but so no, nobody slipped you a. napkin and was like No.

>> This is who did it. It wasn't like. [clears throat] that. Not. Not on that issue. >> Got it. I've had napkins slipped to me. on other issues, but not on that one. Before you go, and thanks so much, man. Appreciate it. It's great to see you. You look great. And I'm so proud of you, you know. I mean, I I know you don't. care about that. Maybe or you do, I. don't know. It doesn't matter. I Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I'm. just like, yeah, you just Oh, you remind. Oh, you always remind me of like a just. to be resilient. So, thank you. Um, that's what I meant. to say. Um,

Yeah, if you had just like. if you had one thing to just tell just. people, like what would you tell them? I. I mean, I'd say eat real food. If it comes in a package, you you. probably should leave it in the package. But, you know, if it comes from the. ground, if it comes from. the water, if it comes from the air, you. know, that's going to be good for you. And And food is medicine. And uh you can. heal yourself with a good diet. Amen. Cool, man. Thanks so much for hanging.

out, dude. And congratulations. And uh. yeah, keep fighting for us. We appreciate it. Thank you, Theo. Great to see you. You. too, bud. Now, I'm just floating on the. breeze, and I feel I'm falling like. these leaves. I must be. a cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, [music] I'll share this piece of my. [singing] mind. I know I can feel it. in my bones. But, it's going to take.

a little.