Mike Rowe | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #577

I have some tour dates to tell you. about. I'll be in Chicago, Illinois on. April 24th. Miami, Florida on May 10th. Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th. St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20th. Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st. Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd. Winnipeg and. Calgary in the Canada. All tickets at. theon.com. Please go through those links so you get.

accurate pricing and I appreciate your. support for the return of the rat tour. Today's guest is a host. You know him. from Dirty Jobs. Um he's also an author. and a podcaster. Uh he has a new show. coming out in May called People You. Should Know where he travels the country. interviewing regular people who are. making a difference in the world around. them. It's always a good time chatting. with the one and only Mr. Mike Roing.

[Music]. [Applause]. Oh, he's bringing a coffee. Oh, good. He. got me a cup of coffee. That's how they. used to. Oh, I see. Like you really got. to work for it. You want to be in the. labor force. You got to heat it up. That's all it is. All right. Yeah. See,

is there cream in there? See, this is. the difference between today. Look, this. is the difference between my parents and. us today. This is how you got a cup of. coffee with me, like my grandparents. Yeah, man. They would serve it like. this. Yep. And you figure it out. Good. luck. Figure it out, man. You're on your. own. And here we are. Yeah. Well, remember the last time I was at your. place? I had I had rolled out of the. hotel, come to your house. I wasn't. quite sure who you were or where I was. or anything. And all I knew was I needed. coffee and you ordered some for me and.

they brought it in and it was so. freaking hot. I didn't make a big deal. about it, but we were like 2 minutes. into our conversation. I thought, "Damn. it, man. I just I literally cleaved my. tongue to the roof of my mouth there for. a second. I wonder if I can still be. interesting." And I just powered through. and decided, you know what? It's. whatever. It's just pain. Well, thanks. for doing that, man. Oh, that's the. worst, bro. When you drink something so. hot, but you want to be a man. That's. why I think our grandfathers, no wonder. they couldn't express their feelings.

They couldn't talk. You know how c how. hot the coffee was then. It was It was. magma. Yeah. And and how jacked up their. teeth were. They were in constant pain. Yeah. Like people died to their teeth. back then all the time. Yeah. We lost at. least a grandfather to his to teeth. infection or to gum. infection at least. But yeah, people. died. It was crazy. That's bananas. Yeah, I um I bit my lip the other day. and this is a this is a funny thing for. me anyway. But the third like the first.

time you do it, it's it's it's annoying. and it really takes you out of your. meal, takes you out of your. conversation. Yeah. And part of the. reason is because you know it's going to. happen again. And then when you do it. again, it's a different kind of rage, right? And because it's tinged with the. inevitability like it's going to happen. And then when you bite it the third. time, it's just white hot pain and like. an anger at the universe and it's. irrational. Yeah. But it's it's just one. of those things when I and and maybe.

four or five times you're going to bite. it and it's going to be like that for. the next 24 hours until your body. finally sends some sort of message and. it and the swelling starts to go down. But it is a it's a it's a horrible. moment in your day when you start that. crucible. It's an oral Vietnam, man. There's nothing like that going down. that journey. The D-Day of every bite. you take and one of them is going to. land step on that on that hidden IED of. a previously bitten inner lip. An oral.

Vietnam. Can we get him some coffee? G. It's going to happen again. Some cream. They just bring you more coffee. More. You know what? Maybe I should. I used to. drink I used to drink black all the time. and then I went two creams and one. cream. And I you know what I find my uh. it it it it upsets people when you. change your coffee order like the people. around you in your circle. Like I always. thought you were a black coffee guy. Oh. yeah. And now what's with the cream or. what's with the almond milk? You don't. want to do that. That sends a whole. different message. Yeah, definitely. In.

some communities that is not good. Well, there's no uh it's not good. There's no. nipples on the almond. Yeah. And if. you're looking for them, you are a Randy. character. Well, you can't. I mean, you. Curiosity would require some some kind. of cursory inspection from this milk. delivery system with no nipples. Oh, look at you, Zach. That's amazing. Thank. you very much. Where did you get those. out of? Did you go into the cow? I saw. the one we had was expired, so I went to. the corner. Did you really? Oh my. You.

went to the corner to get me some of. these little poisonous pods. This these. are good. There's a whole Oh, yeah. Why? Why is everything They have melatonin in. them now? I'm like, do should coffee. creamer have melatonin in it? I don't. know. Is that Isn't that the stuff that. makes you tired? Yeah. Like, what's. going on? That is a mixed message. I. know. Here's some uh here's some. caffeine with a little sedative for you. Let's just We'll just let your body sort. it out. Yeah. It's where we are. Next. thing you know, you're biting through. your lip, cursing the universe. Oral. Vietnam. Dying to your teeth.

Oh, dude. Dude, do you have any idea how. much I mean feedback I got? I don't I. don't know if this happens to you. Like. you see yourself maybe on YouTube and. it's clearly you, right? This is a. thing. You're like you don't dispute it. It's you. You did whatever it is, whatever conversation you're having. Yeah. But you don't have any real. recollection of the conversation. Yeah. You're just seeing yourself, right? Like. this happened to me a lot years ago when. uh people started uploading these uh.

these incidents on QVC like in the. middle of the night where I'd been you. know fired for various inappropriate. interactions with product or Oh, you. were on QVC. Oh yeah. Yeah. But but when. like when I look at those old. clips and and I can't deny that it's me, but I have absolutely no idea what's. going to happen. Yeah. or what or what. I'm going to say next. It's very. unusual. It's like biting your lip. Yeah. There's nothing you do about it. You just sit there and you watch. yourself doing things you don't remember.

doing and you just hope you just hope to. God you don't, you know, blow it. I. didn't know you got involved in this. I'm seriously involved. Yeah. This is. the dark arts. Selling jewelry to people. that are high on sleeping pills. Yeah. I. mean, they're lonely hearts. They're, you know, that look at my nails so. nicely manicured and all that. That was. 1989. you selling those or 90. Were you. going to a poison concert? What were you. even wearing those for? You know, I mean, as long as you're. going to do it. Find the cat sack.

That's when I knew my life had taken a. weird turn. This was 1990. It was my. first job in TV. Was it really? That's. crazy. Like, I didn't even know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Look at you. Look at that. Right. Where were you. from? Transennsylvania. So, this is a lava lamp, right? And I'm. uh I have no idea how to behave. I I. just want to know if it's really hot. Well, guess what, dude? It's hot, man. Hey, put two creamers in it. It's like.

that lava. I mean, obviously it's not. really lava. It's magma. Nuh-uh. No, that's not lava. I open this thing up on. the air just because it's 3:00 in the. morning, right? And you're just trying. to make sense out of whatever they bring. you next. It could be the Amcore. negative ion generator. It could be the. health team. Infrared pain reliever. Could be a lava lamp. Oh, yeah. It could. be a child's diaper that sorts coins. They brought me a um a cat sack. K A T S. A K. It's a cat sack. Uh I thought it.

was a joke. It's not. It's a It's like a. a grocery bag lined with myar, right? And your cat crawls in it. It makes a. crinkling sound and cats love it. Oh, that's nice. So, this is the kind of. thing, man. And you just I I would sit. there for 3 hours in the middle of the. night uh trying to there's no there was. no training program or anything, you. know. They they would just bring you. these things that look like you'd get. them out of that machine on the carnival. midway with the claw, you know. Yeah.

You know, it was it was really just. stuff that had failed to sell in prime. time. Uh and so if you're new, there's. no training program. They just put you. on in the middle of the night and they. just bring you the stuff, man. one thing. after the next and you talk for eight. minutes. I love that. We should bring. that back. What if we brought something. like that back? Well, I mean, QVC is. still on. It's just that back in those. days, uh, no one really knew about it. Um, they didn't have any big vendors or. anything. Today, you know, they do six, seven billion dollars a year. It's Do.

they really giant? It's huge. Home. shopping is huge. Wonder if we should do. what if we did a fun one on like YouTube. and we sold American products that were. Americanmade. Am I I'm I'm in. I'm in. Look, there are no new ideas. Like I. joked the last time I was at Jupad in. Nashville, it was like I really felt. like you had tapped into like a Wayne's. World meets Charlie Rose, right? And and. so all those old ideas are will come. back. Tellathons will come back. Oh, I.

love that. Home shopping never really. went away. Uh teleathons were great, though. You'd call up and you'd be like, "Who's crippled?" Sometimes my stepdad. would get drunk or whatever, right? And. he'd like want to impress my mom. So. we'd ring up one of those teleathons. that were on just to he'd be like, "All. right, hey, Randy, who's crippled over. there?" And they'd like tell you who's. crippled or whatever. He'd be like, "Put. $30 on that one." Well, do do you. remember Jerry Lewis doing the. teleathons? I Yep. Jerry's Kids. Jerry's. Kids. I He was real. I mean, he raised.

like a lot of money. He did a lot of. good in that world. But you got in 36. hours into a teleathon, right? You're. You've been up 36 hours. Yeah. You're on. QVC then. That's like And I did There. were times on QVC where it snowed and. like the the next ghost couldn't come. in. So when you're when you've been up. for that long and you're on live TV and. they bring you like a collectible doll. Yeah. And you're hallucinating and you. don't even understand if people collect. dolls, but they do. Right. They do. And.

so you're just sitting there like this. doll would be next to me and her name. would be Rachel and she'd be dressed up. like a [ __ ] from Little Women or. something. And you can and you just give. them stories, you know, Pride and. Prejudice. Exactly. Exactly. Love him as. he loved me. So Emily Bronte or was it Charlotte? Uh. I'm not sure. I think they've dated for. a while. I'm not sure who was they may. have. One of them took the other one's. name. Well, this is like what you just.

did is exactly what I would do every. night. It was free associating over. whatever they brought. I wasn't a very. good salesman, but I was good at like. starting sentences with no clear end and. just keep going. So, the next thing you. know, you're you're giving these dolls. like very elaborate backstories, you. know, like you know, she's a doll that. gives you just a hint of possibility. She says no, but there's yes, yes in. those eyes. And then the camera guy. pushes in close. Really close. And.

you're And I'm sitting here like this. looking at a monitor, looking at myself, looking at the doll, and a million. people are watching. Yeah. Like she's. new in town. She's new in town. And. she's keen to make some friends. And. there's really no telling how far she'll. go or how far you'll let her because. it's really up to you. Call her. For. three easy payments of $29.95, young. Rachel here will be on her way to you. And whatever you do with her in the. privacy of your own curio is between you. and your lord. I'm just here to tell you. that uh she's on sale and she looks like.

a sport. All righty. What's next? Next. up, Mike, we actually have the Princess. Diana beanie babies that are in town. Hey, that's fantastic. They're just. passing through. Actually, Mike, there's. not many of them. Well, you know, aren't. we all just passing through, Theo? But. when you really think about it, this. whole notion of permanence as it relates. to porcelain dolls, I think that's. something we can dive into to kill. three, four, maybe five minutes. Oh, I. believe that. And I'll tell you that. that I'll tell you this that these. beanie babies are stuffed with um what's.

the it's not cotton. What is it? It's. styrofoam, Theo. Oh, yeah. Styrofoam. They're stuffed with styrofoam. And I'll. tell you, it was a bold move on a. manufacturer. Russian cotton, as they. called it. That's right. Because when. you get it wet, it swells up a little. bit. Like those nesting dolls in. reverse. When you see that little. princess die beanie baby swell up like a. tick, your heart's going to beat with. anticipation and wonder about what could. possibly happen next. Yep. And we also. She comes, if you buy her now, she comes. with these two CIA dolls. Mhm. We're not.

saying anything. You say potato, I say. mad. I say cavity search because with. the Beanie Baby, it's really your. property. That's the beauty, especially. the princess diabini babies because with. a touch of royalty. Well, they're. dressed in purple, too. The color of. kings, Theo. I thought that. And uh if. you order right now, within the next 44. seconds, both of these CIA beanie Babies. will be stuffed with pure polyester or.

gay cotton as they call it in some. circles. That's right. And for this. week, just to mix things up a little. bit, each one of these Beanie Babies, every one out of a hundred will be. stuffed with cocaine. Oh, so it's it's. really going to shake things up cuz who. knows who's going to get it and who. knows what's going to happen next. Oh, I. wouldn't put it in a baby's crib unless. you want him to walk this week. That's. what I'd say. I just bit my lip. I'm. going to put two creamers inside of. myself. Um Mike, let's We have you.

here. Thank you, dude. I didn't know you. were in those trenches. if if we have. because you know what I've thought about. it would be neat to do something if we. did it with products only products that. are Americanmade right I just got this. uh shirt um and a jacket from this. company American Giant right so. seriously. I bring in that jacket if you can I know. those guys do Bathrop or what's a win. Bard Winthrop Winthrop is the CEO of. American this are you messing with like. did I swear to God dude bring it in it's.

a gray one out there I'll tell you a. true story about this guy Bard Winthrup. 16 years ago. He sent me a sweatshirt in. the mail because he saw me on Dirty Jobs. getting the absolute crap knocked out of. me and he saw my clothes being destroyed. right and left. He goes, "This is an. indestructible sweatshirt. It's 100%. made in the USA." And Slate magazine had. just written a story called The World's.

Greatest Hoodie. M. So it wasn't cheap, but it was made from cotton that was. literally picked like outside of Gaffne. maybe or Middle Sex, South Carolina. where their factories were. He showed me. pictures of the employees who stitched. it, right? The yarn, the everything. And. uh I still have it. Wow. I wore that. thing. It was completely There it is. Slate magazine. This is the greatest. hoodie ever. This is December 2012. So, he sent me this sweatshirt and I wore it.

and I gave him some love on uh on Dirty. Jobs because it really is amazing. You. know, it's it's the kind of sweatshirt. Do you remember the Champion. sweatshirts? Yeah. The with the reverse. weave. Yeah. Right. There were like the. varsity sweatshirts, the Harvard crew. guys. It's the kind of sweatshirt your. uh your girlfriend steals. It's those. So anyway, I I never knew what happened. to the guy, but he reached out a couple. years ago and American Giant is still. doing it. Like I mean, yeah, they're.

making clothes in America, right? Cuz. this is Yeah. How did I come across. this? Oh, a friend of mine showed this. to me. Um they sent me a clip about a. guy was trying to make a product in. America. Yeah. And he couldn't do it. Here, I'll put it on for a few minutes. This is my AG right here, Daddy. That's. great, man. Yeah. Yep. They're doing it. They're actually doing it. People don't. understand how jacked up this is. That. back in 1988. Mhm. 80% of all of the clothing we wore was.

made in America. Yeah. And today it's. 2%. It's bananas. It's unbelievable. Um. the problem that those guys have is. there's a labor challenge because what. what's happening is they're competing. obviously with China and with Vietnam. and with a lot of other places and and. those places, you know, they don't have. the same regulations. They don't have. the same um uh requirements. They don't.

have the same conditions in factories, all that stuff, right? You don't have to. be fully awake to work. You don't even. have to really be human. I'm not I'm not. sure what the what the laws are. I just. know that when the dust settles, it's a. it's a hell of a lot harder to do it. here. So, they do it. They're trying to. do it. They do it elsewhere. They do it. in South Carolina. They do it in South. Carolina. American Giant. American Giant. does. But it's it's crazy to think that. when you think about this is a. misconception that I started to realize.

that I had that when I travel around the. country cuz we've probably and I just. said this recently, but we've touring. comedy, we've probably done the top 200. cities size-wise, right? Like some. comedians they go to 50 cities, right? Sure. and they go to the we went as many. places you as you could go and we still. have more to go but I mean like you know. anywhere from like um you know lick to. lacrosse um Wisconsin yeah I mean just. we we to Fargo I mean we're going to.

mediumsiz cities and you always think. like oh well there's factories. everywhere that make things and stuff. like that there's not no there's not and. you you think oh well I'm sure there's. always when you're flying on an airplane. you're like oh I'm sure we're passing. thousands thousand and hundreds of. thousands of factories that are making. products and sweatshirts that we're not. No, it used to be I mean the rust belt. in particular like that part of the. mid-Atlantic those were factory towns. The tetanus belt too they called it the. tetanus. Well, I mean it was uh you know. there's so many rivers up there and so.

the mills were by the rivers and so the. the factories were near the mills and. the cotton was spun there. But this guy. Bard, he he's actually become a friend. of mine and he's on a mission and like. flannel like hand dyed yarn in flannel. was something like those old thick. flannel shirts that we grew up with. You. can't get them anymore. So American. Giant started making those. They started. making these hoodies and uh and the more. I read about him, the more I liked him.

So he's become like he's in my world now. because I tried on my podcast. I'm not. there yet, but I'm really trying to make. sure all the sponsors have an. Americanmade story just because why not? See, the thing is, man, if Trump. succeeds at the reshoring effort, the. tariffs, yeah, that's part of it. But if. in if in general he gets manufacturing. reinvigorated in this country then.

there's going to be a challenge that. like a lot of people aren't talking. about which which is labor. Right? So. there's in January there were. 482,000 open positions in manufacturing. in this country. Right? 480,000 open. positions. If he gets his way and this. all gets reinvigorated, you're talking. about 2 or 3 million new jobs, but. there's there's no workforce sitting.

there going, "This is what I want to do. or prepared to do it." They're not prep. So, there's a skills gap for sure. Okay. But there's. also a will gap, right? Okay. So, let's. talk about a couple of these of these. things, Mike. So, first let's talk about. I'm going take this off cuz it is pretty. warm in here. But I will say this. This. feels great off in that thing. They made. a t-shirt. Oh, dude. You will never This. thing will keep your coffee warm for. seven eons, dude. It gets It's I mean, not to turn it into a commercial, but I. swear it's weird how soft it'll get. It. gets softer and it gets thicker. It'll.

smell a little funky. Oh, god. It's. going to turn into a wife. You just bit my lip again. Hey, um but. no, this is really awesome, Mike. And um. and I know you have a new show that's. coming out on your YouTube on on May 2nd. um where you went and met with a lot of. uh just workers on the ground, right? We. do a lot of that. Um but this this thing. is kind of important. This the tariff. stuff. Yeah. Okay. Let's so let's start. there. So Trump has put in a lot of he's. he's started this kind of tariff war,

right? Yeah. And you hear people say. it's good, you hear people say that it's. bad. From my perspective, after. traveling around the country, I don't. know how else you're going to get jobs. back here because it just there's a lot. of towns that are boarded up. There's a. lot of small cities that are boarded up. I mean, a whole city. You walk through. the city of Jackson, Mississippi during. the day, it looks like a movie set. It's. very clean. It's beautiful, but there's. nothing. And that's one of 40 probably. cities that we've seen that are like. that. Um, so I'm just thinking, what's.

going to come and save these cities if. something needs to? And so then you. start to see Trump put these tariffs on. and then you start to get the idea, well. it's to bring jobs back so we have jobs. here so it keeps cities busy. Yeah. And. so so it's two different conversations I. think. Okay. And obviously I'm not an. economist. In fact, I don't know an. economist who thinks tariffs are a good. idea. I really don't. I don't know an. economist. I know a couple, but the ones I'm most. interested in are like slightly right of.

center where they don't agree either. Right. So, like everybody is either. having a conversation about whether or. not it's a good idea. economically. I call that like a tier 2. conversation. You're having a tier one. conversation. You're saying, "Well, wait. a minute. What if there's something in. the country that's actually more. important than the economy long term, right? What if like what could that be?". The economy of the human spirit. I think. it could be that. And you know, I get I.

get all kinds of grief for this, but I I. think it's a fair analogy. I think about. um well, hell, I think about slavery in. 1870, right? And I think about the. conversation that was going on in the. country and a big part of it was wait, if we get rid of this, do you have any. idea what it's going to do to the. economy? Not just for the South, which. would collapse, but for the North who. buys all the products, who's all dressed. in cotton, right? And of course there's. the triangle trade. Molasses, rum, slaves, right? This this is an eternal.

wheel that had been going on for time. immemorial. Yeah. Dark rum. Where do you. think that came from? You know what I'm saying? You put a. couple You know, I think I know what. you're saying. I'm just saying you mix a. few items and you got some That's the. best rum they got. It's good rum. But if. you fundamentally were to make the. slavery decision based on nothing but. whether or not it was good or bad for. the economy, well, we'd still have. slavery. Right. So, we got to a point. where people said, "Wait, wait, wait. Th.

this can't this can't keep going. This. isn't human." That's right. Right. Right. And so, uh, it was bad, right? The economy crapped the bed. We fought a. war. A lot of people died. And I don't. mean to sound glib when I say it. I. don't know what the real uh. ramifications are going to be. I don't. have a crystal ball. But I do think that. the reason people are talking past each. other with the tariffs is because some. people are saying, "Look, it's a tax.

period. It's not good for global trade, which is true. But if there's this other. if you're trying to transform Jackson, Mississippi, then you at least have to. elevate the the conversation to these. this other set of consequences that. might happen if you shake the whole. thing up. Right now, I again I put a big. like asterisk on that. I.e. I don't. really know what I'm talking about, but. I do believe that there unintended. consequences and intended unintended.

consequences. And um the consequences of. of messing with the tariffs uh are are. probably both, right? But do you feel. like do you think Trump his intentions. are. good? Here's what I think. When I. started my little foundation, which by. the way, we're still doing it. We've got. uh three million bucks we're giving away. this month in these work ethic. scholarships. So we're we're training. people uh for skilled jobs. We're we're. training people for manufacturing jobs.

We've been doing it for years. That's me. in a cap and gown sitting there without. any pants on as if to indicate optically. that even though I have my degree, I'm. not actually trained for any of the. opportunities occur. Oh, you look like. you just graduated from San Francisco. I'll say that, dude. Nice legs. It was. an experimental. It's okay. My dad used. to wear those shoes, dude. Hey, you can. see my shark bite there on my left uh my. left knee. That's There you go. Look at. that. That hurt. Yeah, a lot of sharks. over there in San Fran. Those bays, buddy. you know, so Trump's intentions,

right? I don't know. I don't know the. man. Uh I'm rooting for him. But here's. what happened to me when I started that. foundation. You started this. Yep. Because your foundation gives out um. work ethic scholarships. Work ethic. scholarships. And people can apply on. the website. If you click on scholarship. right there uh up at the top, uh yeah, it'll take you to a Oh, well that's me. and a bunch of people who got the SC. There you go. Yeah. That's awesome. Can. we donate to that? You can donate to it. Sure. Awesome, man. Yeah. Uh, in fact, we just auctioned off these guys up in.

Ohio made me a truck. They made a. Microworks work truck. Rogan's head. exploded when he saw this. Right. This. is a. 1964 Power Wagon and they. they built it from scratch. It was. beautiful. And they took it to the. Barrett Jackson auction and we got one. and a half million bucks for it. So, that all went to scholarships. I I was I. remember last time I was going to donate. way less than that. I was auctioning off. all kinds of crap from dirty jobs to. raise money. We've given away about 12.

million bucks in these days. That's. amazing, man. But but I'm not saying it. because I'm awesome. No, you're just. saying this is so this is a way that. you're trying to be a part of the things. that you've gone through and seen. You. want to put guys back in the workforce. and make them be prepared. Is that. right? That is right. And the answer to. your question regarding Trump actually. starts with Obama because the year we. started this in. 2008, I don't know if you remember it, but he had a thing called the Highway. Infrastructure Act. And it was big news, headlines everywhere. He was going to.

create 3 million shovelready jobs, right? And I was rooting for him. And. dirty jobs at the time was at its. absolute peak. And what was weird as the. country was going into a recession was. everybody I was talking to on dirty jobs. there 12 million unemployed people but. they all had like help wanted signs out. They were really struggling to hire and. their basic [ __ ] was we just can't find. people who were excited to pick up a. shovel. We can't find people who want to.

do the work that we have. So, I reached. out uh in an open letter to the to the. president in 2009 and just said, "Look, man, I am rooting for you. I think 3. million shovelready jobs sounds great, but part of making that succeed has to. include a campaign to help make shovel. ready jobs cool because right now people. aren't buying it." There it is. Look at. that, man. You guys are unbelievable. That's an open letter to the president.

March 11, 2009. I am aed by the task at. hand and compelled to tell you about. Micro Works, a public awareness campaign. designed to reinvigorate the trades. Yeah, I've I we need there needs to be. um you're saying look, I'm saying it. because it's about to happen again, right? Donald Trump is going down a road. and if he succeeds, he's going to create. millions of manufacturing jobs in a. country that currently has nearly. 500,000 manufacturing jobs open because.

the people who run those factories can't. find people who want to do the work. So, it's not enough to create the jobs, right? And look, a lot of you, your. listeners are probably thinking, well, make the pay better, make it more make. it more interesting, make it more. palatable. And we can have that. conversation for sure. But the bigger. issue still is there there's no. enthusiasm for the work. We took shop. class out of high school. We robbed kids.

of the opportunity to even see what that. kind of work even looks like. Meanwhile, we told a whole generation of kids they. were freaking screwed if they didn't get. a four-year degree. Right. And so people. say, "Mike, how the how did college get. so expensive?" I know you know this, but. nothing has gotten more expensive in the. last 40 years than a four-year degree. Yeah. Not not real estate, not. healthcare, uh not not energy, nothing, right? And so we keep telling.

kids they're screwed if they don't go in. this direction. We free up endless money. to loan them. So, now you got $1.7. trillion in student debt on the books. You've got 7.6 million open jobs right. now, most of which don't require. four-year degree. And here's the other. screwed up part. You got 6.8 million. able-bodied men who are not only not. looking for work, they're I mean, they're out of the out of the workforce.

and not looking, right? So, so all of. that together, we've never seen that before in in peace. time anyway. So, so something beyond the. tariffs, something beyond policy is is. going to have to happen to make. 22-year-olds go, "Yeah, man. I would. consider doing that." Right? What. happens when your health becomes the. punchline? From seed oils to stress, toxins to pollutants, the modern world.

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a.com/th eo. I like armor colostrum. I. put it in my smoothies. I enjoy it and. I'm happy that I take it. Armra. colostrum. Well, I've got some thoughts. on that. So, one is do you think that. the college the one of the reasons it. went up was because most of that money. was loans and then that was almost a. scam not a scam but a scheme to scam's. good. Yeah. Wow. Look, it's a product. man. You're what what you're selling, right? But how does that money? So, just.

so I know so I'm clear. So, that money. works because then um the college loans. it to you. They put interest on it and. then you have to pay it back. Well, the. college doesn't loan it. Sometimes you. might get a scholarship from the. college. That's not alone. Uh, but. financial aid packages can involve like. Fanny May and Freddy Mack. Yeah. Which. sounds like your awesome aunt and uncle. somewhere. It also sounds like you. borrowed some money from a guy in. Memphis. That's actually what it is is. some faceless bureaucrat in a tall. soulless building in Kansas City that's.

just crunching the numbers. Right. So, so the more people that they can get to. go to college, the more like um the more. interest that they can get off of these. big loans, right? So, sure. the people. loaning the money are getting interest. on the loans, but it's the colleges. themselves that like right now, like. literally as we speak, there's a. screaming headline. Uh Trump just put uh. a hold on $2 billion of federal money. that was going to go straight to.

Harvard. That's right. Now, why would he. do that? You know, people are screaming, "Oh my god, it's an it's something about. free speech and you know, $2.2 2 billion. in grants to Harvard has been paused due. to activism on campus. Where in the. headline does it tell you that Harvard. has a $52 billion endowment? Nowhere. But they do. They've got over $50. billion in an endowment. Yeah. That. might not even have an effect. Well, I.

mean, look, it it colleges, especially. the top tier colleges, have an awful lot. of money and and and they have a steady. stream of customers because in our. society, we have completely bought into. the notion that that what you're. purchasing in these schools is an. education. What you're actually. purchasing is a credential, right? Whether or not you're educated or not, your your experience may vary. Look, dude. I'm I'm I'm looking at my iPhone.

right here. If you got an internet. connection, you're you have Well, you. have access to 98% of all the known. information in the world, right? How you. process it and how you utilize it, that's up to you. Yeah, that's you. So, I'm not It's not fair to say that you. can get a liberal arts degree on your. iPhone, but you can. It's not it's not. fair to really compare, you know, lying. in your bed like I did two weeks ago. watching a free lecture at MIT and. saying, you know, it would be the same. experience if I were there in the. classroom. But it's close enough to say,

well, wait a minute. If the first one. cost me. $0.0 and the second one is going to keep. me in debt for over 20 years, what am I doing? Yeah. So, I don't know, man. I I I feel badly about painting. with too broad a brush. My liberal arts. degree served me really well. I I was I. graduated four years after you were. born, I'm guessing. 1984 I graduated. Beautiful year. All right. It was a. great year. Um I went to two years in a.

community college. Lot of hot chicks. then, too, huh? Couldn't swing a dead. cat without hitting a prospect. God, you. know those collectible dolls on QVC? Mhm. It is very very similar. Yeah. It. was it was it was a good time to be. alive. I was also singing in the opera. back then. Oh yeah, that's right. I. forgot you were uh opera uh that you. were an opera guy. Yeah, I was it was a. thing I did. Cat calling. Dude, if you. hear that cat call, you stop. If it's. just some [ __ ] Chico whistling at. you, dude, I'm keeping walking. But you.

hit a guy [ __ ] hit a half of an a. Maria on his lunch break near an open. manhole, dude. You got to stop. Well, people pay attention, man. That's what. like in the first season of Dirty Jobs, I I sang I didn't even know the cameras. were rolling. I was just blown away by. the acoustics in a sewer in San. Francisco. Oh yeah. So I sang. [Music].

a Right. So I'll have the pasta. Okay. But it was like the image of a dude. wearing a rubber suit squatting in a. sewer covered with other people's [ __ ]. Oh yeah. Singing pooini. To your point. Literal poochini. Pooch genini. That's good. Yeah. People. didn't know what to do with that. You. don't know where to It's like a lot of.

cognitive dissonance in your in your. brain. There's a lot going on at once. And there's a parallel here. That's kind. of what's going on right now. That's it. People like, if you sing opera, you. shouldn't be in a sewer. If you're in a. sewer, you should be getting paid crap. wages. But what do you do? What do you. say about a guy in a sewer. who's a multi-millionaire, right? Like, what do you mean he owns his own septic. tank business? What do you mean he. worked his way up to become a successful. entrepreneur without a college degree?

How how is such a thing possible? Yeah. Every day, Theo, we've got 2,200 people. have gone through. microworks. I'd say 30% of them are. welders. I'd say half of them are making. mid6 figures. Yeah. Nobody believes it. I spend most of my time now in in this. space sitting down with people who are. 25 years old and looking at a camera and. saying, "Hey, I get it. Don't take it.

from the opera singing rich dude covered. with other people's crap. Okay, I get. it. I'm not I'm not persuasive. Yeah. But listen to her. Listen to him. Right. Right. And so that's how the needle. starts to move. And that's that's part. of what has to happen. So you're saying. that if the tariffs work, right, part of. that is going to have to be that we're. going to need people who can do the. jobs, do the manufacturing jobs here. We're going to need those skilled labor. workers, right? Yes. Okay. So, and we. don't have all those right now. We need.

them. We don't have them. Um, how do you. So, we we almost need like a like. remember that Uncle Sam poster like I. want you like we need that PR campaign. Yeah. To get people hype because because. Yeah. You just need that thing that's. going to get people hype a little bit. It's it's not just PR. Um, but it's. ethos too, you think? Well, what is. ethos? Bring it up. Yeah, bring up ethos. and tell us and and all these uh Greek. words, you know, the arisatilian. definition of a tragedy, anagnaresis and.

parapetia, a characteristic of spirit, a. culture, era or community is manifested. in its beliefs and aspirations. That's. it. A challenge to the ethos of the. 1960s. So, can I have an ethos on. myself? Kind of like my own spirit. Yeah, let's absolutely. Okay. So, if. it's an individual, it's a world view, I. think. And and an even better way to. think about it is is a code. Okay. Do. you have a code? If you do, what is it? Like Dexter kind of my own thing. Like a. lit like a code. Yeah. Yeah. Like look,

man. This this will sound really. outdated and hokey. Integrity. You mean. I do mean integrity. I mean when I was a. kid, like the first time I had to raise. my hand and well, the first time I had. to take a pledge, it was the pledge to. the flag. Yeah. I didn't really know. what it meant. I was too young. I just. memorized it. Right. But later in the. Boy Scouts, you know, I had a. scoutmaster who was a retired army. colonel and he was a hard ass and he. took this really seriously. So you like.

raise your hand and and and pledge you. you you take the scout oath. Now I'm. only like 12 years old at the time, but. I remember thinking this feels like. there were candles lit in a darkened. room and it was serious. You know, it's. as serious as could be. It's it's easy. to look back and laugh and poke fun, but. no, we did the same thing. It mattered, man. On my honor, I will do my best to. do my duty to God in my country. Like, wait, just that's the first sentence. Never mind whether you like it or agree.

or disagree. Um challenging kids to to. take an oath and to and to make a. pledge. My foundation has a thing called. a sweat pledge. You have to sign it if. you're applying for the particular pile. of money that I've accumulated through. donations. And I'm super stingy with. that money. Well, AA has a they have a. pledge in the beginning that you do as a. group. There's something about doing. something as a group that makes you feel. a part of a group. That's how a group. works. That's how tradition happens, right? You can't just have it without. actually participating in it and and.

vowing to it. You you you must assume. individual responsibility, but you must. do that in the presence of other. like-minded people. Yeah. So, my sweat. pledge, which I ironically wrote after. some bourbon, stands for skill and work. ethic, aren't taboo. I was just looking. for a way to make people make a promise. And you can find it out here. It's it's. now a curriculum actually in 70 schools, but it's based on the 12step recovery. process. Wow. And the Boy Scout law.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. combined with these. really old school uh uh uh affirmations. around things like gratitude and delayed. gratification and um uh personal. responsibility and and work ethic and. and aversion to debt. I actually have. something on the sweat pledge that says. um I would rather live in a tent and eat. beans than pay for things I can't.

afford. Now, people call me, they're. pissed. Their parents call, right? There. there's there's a tenant on a pledge. that says, "I um I believe that my. safety is my responsibility.". Uh I understand that just because I'm in. compliance doesn't mean I'm out of. danger. Now, I believe this cuz I nearly. got killed half a dozen times on dirty. jobs. There it is. Number six. Right. So, so this thing makes people crazy. It.

they. They they they resist it. But this is a. code really here. It it's it's my code. It's your code. And it starts right at. the top, man. I believe I've won the. greatest lottery of all time. I'm alive. I walk the earth. I live in America. Above all things, I'm grateful. Wow. Now, you can disagree with that and we. can still be friends. But when I get. calls from from parents or teachers or. kids who are going through this. application process and they say, "Look,

I'm not really comfortable signing this, then I say,"Well, then this particular. pile of free money might not be for. you." Yeah. It's okay, man. I mean, I. work really hard and I raise a lot of. money and I give a lot of it away. And I. I make no apology for wanting to to help. people who at. least see the the world the same way you. do or or something adjacent. Oh, agree. I think that that makes perfect sense. But but but you can't like you can't run. a business that way. Like like you can't. hire people based on their worldview.

regarding gratitude or personal. responsibility. At least not in. California. Yeah, probably not in. California. You can't. But I think just, you know, you you got to keep it off the. documents, but secretly in your head, you can low-key have some ideas. Wink. wink. Do you think there's something. different about the Gen Z workforce, or. do you think there's just they haven't. had the same examples that previous. generations had, you Yeah, I do. I think. Well, look, again, painting with too. broad a brush sucks. And you know, I've.

we're not pointing at the Jinsey. workforce like you're bad or anything. like that cuz you you know, it's so. funny. It's like we had a guy on. recently um this guy Alexander Wang and. he's not the fashion guy that got. murdered. He's a chi is a he's like kind. of a semi-Chinese guy, but he founded uh. scale AI. It's an AI company. And he was. saying that one way to look at AI is. that everyone one will kind of level up. right it's like suddenly uh kind of. robots or computers will do a lot of the. more menial tasks and you'll everyone.

will kind of be a manager and it's. interesting because if you say that to. me or your generation our generation. kind of that people would be like well I. don't want to just be I don't want to be. the manager of five robots and I sit in. a small dark room all the time and and. you know and that's my life and maybe I. get four day work week instead of five. Yeah. But if you told my. nephews that hey you get to be the. manager of five robots and you just sit.

in this room and control them all day. They would think that's awesome just. because of how they've grown up you know. like everything is so gified. So, it's. kind of interesting because you start to. get into what the whole like perception. of work of being alive even is to. people. Does that make any sense to you? It makes Look, it starts there's a lot. in there. There's a lot, but what you're. really saying is like what is a good. job? What is a bad job? What is a clean. job? What is a dirty job? And and once.

you start to create some sort of. hierarchy, which makes sense, everybody's free to do it. You ought to. do it. But you know, if Bayard were. here, the American Giant guy, he would. he would tell you a story about the. individuals who made that sweatshirt, right? He would he would show you the. factory line. He would introduce you to. the farmers who grew the cotton. He. would show you step by step how his. entire supply chain is insulated from. these tariffs. These tariffs hadn't.

affected him at all because he he. doesn't rely on any of it. He's totally. independent. So he's taken kind of a. victory lap right now. But his big point. would be you would have to see the. enthusiasm among his group of workers. when they created a sweatshirt that. became the greatest hoodie ever made. And you can look at that and go, "It's a. freaking sweatshirt, dude." But it's not. a sweatshirt, right? It's not that. It's. not about the sweatshirt. And this might.

put it into even better focus. Just so. your listeners understand how jacked up. things are, I got a call six months ago. from a company I bet you've never heard. of called Blue Forge Alliance. All. right. Blue Forge Alliance. Did you. siding or no? In a matter of speaking. Uh we went. through a siding phase. We'll come right. back to this idea. I remember went. through a siding phase in our town once. Somebody came through with a like a. semi-truck full of siding. it over. It.

fell over and they said people had a. bunch of people stealing siding, you. know, and so we sold that on QVC. Y'all. sold siding? No, the same siding. We had. a whole racket. They would bring us the. siding that was stolen from the. neighbors and they would sell it in. between collectible dolls. People in our. area hadn't seen siding before. So they. were putting it on the sides of. everything, dude. You put siding on a. house, siding on a floor. Sure. Yeah. You have siding on the ceiling like it. is not supposed to go up there. People. had siding, bro. They put siding on the. on a damn baby while it was resting, dude. They would just siding on a. ceiling. It ain't supposed to go there.

This is basic. Crazy phase, dude. It was. a crazy phase. Um, but back to Blue. Forge. This is crazier. This crazier. than that. Okay. Blue Forge Alliance is. in charge of the American Maritime Base. And there they are. Okay. The American. Maritime Base is in charge of delivering. three nuclearpowered submarines every. year to the US Navy. Uh, two Virginia, I. think, and one Colombia class. These. things these things are longer than the. Washington Monument is tall. Wow. Okay.

They are the the the pointy part of our. national defense. Yeah. They'll seat. about 40, won't they? Well, look, if. things go sideways with Taiwan or China. and get hypersonic, I worry about our. aircraft carriers. They're exposed like. they haven't been before. Yeah. Oh [ __ ]. If things go sideways in Baltimore, we'll send one over there, you know? So, it's the subs that matter. Now, Blue. Forge represents 15,000 individual. companies and these companies have to. deliver three a year for 10 years. They.

called me, right? And they say, "Look, we're uh we're hiring trades people and. we're kind of in a rush." I'm like, "Well, what do you mean a rush?" And. they said, "Well, we're we're desperate. and and can you help us find them?" And. I said, "I don't know, man. It's pretty. skinny out there right now. There's a. lot of competition. How many do you. need?" The guy says, "140,000." Wow. I swear to God, and you can find it on. the site there, they're hiring over the. next 9 years 140,000 welders, steam.

fitters, pipe fitters, electricians, um all of the construction trades, plus. all kind of uh electronics and technical. stuff. Very, very few of those positions. require four-year degree, right? 140,000. openings. And the guy says, "Mike, we. we've looked everywhere. Do you know. where they are? Can you send me a few. phone numbers? I said, actually, honest, I said, yeah, dude, I know where they. are. They're in the eighth grade.

That's where they are. And if you And if. you want to get them, you Holy crap. They put my face on an I want you to. work in the trades. Who's doing that. back there? I don't know, dude. But what. we need are robots. Ro ts. Would you send me that? Whoever. you are doing this amazing nonauthorized. copywritten stuff. I'm going to I'm. going to use that. I thought robots was. a good pun that deserved a little bit. more than that. But it's not bad. You. could have mic mic robots little tiny. versions of me. Yeah, that's a cute.

idea. It's adorable. They would sell on. QVC, man. They they would kill. This is. the smallest work. It's this is the the. fire ant of the work community. Um let. me land the plane. Okay, here's the. point. that crisis that right now is. impacting our submarine base. You I. think you can draw a line between the. enthusiasm of the workers who build one. of these subs and believe me, you should.

meet these guys. They're like they. understand they're moving the needle. They understand that they're the pointy. part of the spear with regard to. national defense. It's a big deal. You. can compare not not the work but the. feeling to the satisfaction that comes. from making the greatest sweatshirt in. the world. And if you can do that, you. can do it for virtually every product in. between. That's what I'm talking about. There's some somehow or another and I I. started talking about this early on in.

Dirty Jobs. It just it just became clear. that in our society we had identified. work as the enemy. It's like the the. approximate cause of all our misery is. the fact that our freaking boss is up. our ass and every day for eight or 10 12. hours I got to go make little rocks out. of big rocks and and life isn't fair and. damn it something ought to be done and. this whole thing this whole thing is. modeled around the idea that I have to.

do whatever it is I have to do until I. get to the point where I can. retire. Right? So like I'm I'm. retirement age now. I like the idea of. retiring is so insane to me. Like so why. there's still work to be done. There's. more than ever. So look, I'm to answer. your question, I I'm super sympathetic. to Gen Z. I I want them to find. meaningful work, but the meaning it it's.

not it's not inherent in the work. It's. in the dude, right? It's in you. And you. get to assign whatever level of meaning. you want to that sweatshirt or that. nuclear sub or this cup of coffee or. this poisonous cream that your people. brought me that right now is either. making me tired or jacked up. I can't. decide yet, you know. Oh, in 30 seconds. you're telling us all your secrets. You. know, you're going to tell us where you. keep your favorite wood whittle. My my. greatest fear is a whittle a thing a. tool? A whittle a a whittler could be a.

person who wittleles. Okay. Uh, a. whitlet could be a thing that you. whittle, but a whittle flunk is the. actual tool. Okay. In. question, and you can Google that now. You won't find anything to confirm any. of it. I just felt like it was my turn. to talk again. Oh, that's very fair. I'm. going to say this. I You know what? You're right. And I think that that used. to be a part of kind of what you were. saying even in school was like I pledge. allegiance to my country. This country. means something to me. Like my. grandfather worked at this factory where.

they made uh parts. It was for FMC, right? And they made like elevator parts. of elevator shafts and stuff like that. But he would go to the factory and it. was like this thing. And then when we. were in elevators, we would see his. little emblem on the thing like, "Oh, grandpa made this." You know, dude, that. and that kind of stuff was huge. It was. the it was like even like native like in. cultures there are stories that you tell. your grandkids. It's like like the. meaning of being human. We passed from. each other. we pass it in like relics. and in um artifacts and you know you.

keep things from people that meant me. meant something to you. So I think to. think that that just because that only. happens it doesn't only happen like in. your family like if your grandfather. passes away and you keep something that. meant something to him but it happens as. a community too. It's like you have. things that mean something to you and. and that carry on. What am I uh Does. that make any sense? Am I rambling? I'm. okay. No, dude. I'm telling you. Yeah. What the [ __ ] are you talking about? Of. course it makes sense, dude. Yeah. It. makes you feel alive, dude. You know, it. makes you feel alive and then like you. see something across town. You're like,

man, I was a part of that. And you get. to drive by and tell your son, "I built. that house." And your son's like, "No. way. I want to learn how to build. something." You know? Why do you think. people lost their [ __ ] when Obama said, "You didn't build that. You didn't do. that. We all did that together." It was. it was an insult to what you're saying, that part of us. It it doesn't mean that. we're not all part of a of a team, a. country, a concerted effort. But it does. mean like if you if you rob an. individual of that feeling, then you.

have reduced his work to only the. transactional comp. It's just a paycheck. now. But I I'm telling you, my life. changed. It was early on in Dirty Jobs. and we and we weren't even really. filming yet or it was it was after we. shot and I was I was working with a. Mason and I was in his pickup truck and. and he was dropping me back at the hotel. and as we're driving down we were in.

some little Midwest town and we were. driving down some some easily. forgettable street but the architecture. on either side was super cool, right? And as we're driving, he was like. pointing up to the facade. He goes, "Yeah, we did that one." And then around. the corner, he's like, "Yeah, we did. that one, too." And see over here the. way this that one took. And as he was. talking, like his his eyes were filling. up and he was he was driving. past his his life's work and it was. there on display to be seen. And um I.

was very happy for him to be able to. have that, but also very mindful of the. fact that you can see the same wonder in. in the sewer, right? Like the the. architecture down there and the. technology now, except you'll never see. it and you'll never see the guys who. tend to it cuz it's all out of sight and. it's all out of mind. And and and that's. part of the point, too. You don't that. thing you described. I got a call from.

uh Have you heard of Moog? M O O G. You'll let us down in your neck of the. woods. It's actually Boaz, Alabama. Oh, damn. Okay. Little It's It's not so. little. Moog makes virtually every ball. bearing in your car or your truck. They've been making ball bearings for. years, forever and ever. They turned a. hundred a couple years ago. And you. know, the guy called me. They're they're. part of Federal Mogul Motor Parts and. they were like, "Can you can you maybe.

just come down here and look at our. factory and can we film you looking at. it and can you just talk to some of our. our people?" And I said, "Well, yeah, probably. Why?" And they're like, "Well, we just think it would be great if. somebody were paying attention to the. fact we've been doing this for 100 years. and that there is no automotive industry. without us." Wow. So, I did. I went and. I and I brought a little crew with me. and I wound up giving them a a 60-second. love letter. You know, I know a place in.

Boaz, Alabama where people, right? They. played that at their annual thing and um. and I got a video of of people watching. the video I made. Yeah. Tears streaming. down their face. So, purpose, pride, code, integrity, all that stuff, man. Yeah. Well, there it is. 30 lbs ago, you. fat bastard. But there I am going the. extra mile. American Pride with Mike. Row. Some hotties in the back. Well, you. know, going the extra mile right there.

American Pride with Mike Row. Um, this. show is sponsored by Better Help. You. know, some people think that mental. therapy and mental health and um getting. mentally regular are luxuries that only. fancy people can do it. Oh, I can't be. mentally well. That's for them, you. know. That's for damn fancy. folks. But that's not true. Everybody. deserves to feel comfortable in their. own skin and in their own skull. And. sometimes if you're troubled, you can't,

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please visit them at. www.valorreoverycoaching.com. valorreoverycoaching.com or email them. at. admin. valorreoververycoaching.com. Thank you. Well, let's talk about like the. workforce a little bit, then let's talk. about some issues that they face for a. few minutes and then I want to talk. about your new show. Um, last time we. spoke, we talked about minimum wage, right? Last time we spoke I said there. was no justice if you didn't put spunk.

minions on a hat. I told you a story of. artificial. insemination. You coined that term. At. least I had never heard it before. The. coffee came out of my nose and I said, "For for God's sakes, man, please." Hot. coffee came out. It was still hot. Hot. coffee cooled down with some of this, you know, poison. But yeah. Yeah. I. remember last time it was it was that. conversation. I I'm not blowing. sunshine, dude. I got more people mo.

more of the people that I that my. foundation tries to reach reached out to. me. Really? Yep. To say, "I heard you on. Theo Vaughn and I would like to apply. for a scholarship. What do I do?" Wow. I. mean, that's awesome. No, you you you. need to Well, I'm sure you understand, but it was I do this all the time. Hundreds of people. Hundreds of people. Because the problem is, man, I I I. preach to the choir a lot. You know, I. talked to people who already, you know, I your your audience is the future of.

this country. A big chunk of them are. anyway. I don't know about the others. Well, I do believe that one thing I. think I have in common with a lot of my. audience is that the way that we feel. about stuff, right? We might have. different views on things, but I think. our feelings are a lot the same. And we. talk a lot about like purpose on here. Like um we had a a guy named John Vervey. come on and talk about purpose. We had. um Richard Reeves this really great. He. talks about how men aren't leaders in. their communities anymore. You know, they're not doing Boy Scout troops. They're not teaching in classes anymore.

So, we're losing this male to-male. connection piece that is part of what. keeps our desire to be like um. performing humans, human males, you. know, like um so we talk about this kind. of stuff a lot. Uh, and maybe there's a. way we can figure out something to do. where we could, you know, where I can we. would love to donate and then just. continue to help send people your. direction, too. Well, look, man, I I. I'll I'll never say no to a couple. bucks, but I don't need it. What what I. need is what you're doing, right? I. mean, what I need is for the people.

listening to like if they're if they're. serious about what you just framed, the. book to read is called Men Without Work. It's by a guy called Nick Everest. He is. a real economist and I know him. Mhm. Um, and he wrote this thing years ago, but republished it during the lockdowns. And that's where that's where the real. truth of this is, man. That's where the. sto that's the real story. Theo, at the. time he republished this, there were 7.2. million able-bodied men, not only not.

working, but not looking. Now, now the. question is, well, what the hell are. they doing? Right. Right. The research. goes deep and wide and it's horrifying. By and large, the majority of them are. spending 2,000 hours a year on their. screens. They're scrolling, they're. looking, they're they're they're inward, right? And uh and what that means is. they're not in the JC's or the Kowanas. Club or the Boy Scouts or the Alliance.

Club or the YMCA, right? They're not in. their local church. They're not. volunteering in their community. They're. not doing anything at all except living. some version of uh what what was it? Thorough lives of quiet desperation. Yeah. And that's and I and I want to. tell you one other thing too that really. blew me away. I I knew of you. I didn't. know you and it's cool that you texted. me and stayed in touch over the last two. years since we talked. Oh, thanks. No, no, it it it it's Most people don't do.

that really. Yeah, they don't. And um I. had so much fun talking to you that you. know I I took a deeper dive and one. night um just was scrolling through and. I watched you sit here or maybe you were. in Nashville, I don't know. Uh but but. somebody called in and they told you a. story and it was a common story, but it. was a sad story and it was a combination. of of addiction and and and struggling.

with that and and a kind of hopelessness. and and this kind of desperation that my. friend Nick writes about, you know, and. what you did, you did two things that. that were really interesting to me. The. first thing is you sat and didn't say a. word. I've never seen I've never seen. anybody do that before. You just sat and. looked at the camera like you're looking. at me. Like you actually listened. And. then you talked for about 3 minutes in.

about the most empathetic way I had ever. seen. I took that clip and I sent it to. my little network and I said, "Look, man. The this war is going to be fought. on a lot of fronts. It's a war of of of. public opinion to your point. It's it's. a it's it's persuasion. It's all these. things. But what this guy is doing right. now in this space in this way is. important. So yeah, man. I I I don't.

know how big you're going to get and I. don't know how wide your audience is. going to be, but the fact that it's as. big as it is, I Yeah, you're funny. You're funny as hell. Uh, I I was going. to crash one of your shows in in um I. forget what town I was in, but it was. like what what is it? The rat. The rat. was back or something. Return of the. rat. Return of the rat, man. That's the. thing. You can't keep a rat down. You. could kill a rat, bam, another rat. Boy, pop up, dude. They keep popping up. But. that's who we are. You're resilient.

We're resilient. And that's, you know, I. mean, Louisiana doesn't have a lock on. that. But I'll tell you what, man. You're dirty Jobs is Louisiana's very. good to dirty jobs. I mean, from Baton. Rouge to Lafayette to cut off, I did my. time there. We should have been cut off. and we stayed on, dude. That's. Louisiana. Louisiana purchase. First of. all, thank you very [ __ ] much. You. wouldn't even have a third of this. country if it wasn't for Louisiana. Thomas Jefferson 1803 for making that. deal. And we kept the receipt. I'll say. that. Good one. And also, we have nutri.

rats that live underwater. Bro, I know. I know. I know. That is something else. But thank you, bro. That very nice of. you, dude. Yeah. I think that's the one. thing that connects our audience is just. there's this way that we feel and a lot. of it is hopeful, right? And so that's. the side that I choose to air on when it. comes to the tariff stuff. It's like I. have no clue like if it doesn't work, what the [ __ ] What do we lose? We're at. a we are at a severe crossing point. right now where if it gets an if another.

generation without like a sense of. purpose, it's it's not going to matter. Nothing nothing's going to matter. anymore. There won't even be enough of a. person inside of our grandchildren for. it to matter, too. Like even if you. bring the gasoline, there's not going to. be enough of a of a amp inside of them. to even spark it up. It's like even I. think the human spirit is a muscle, right? I that's how I feel about it. And. I feel like it's always there, but it's. like the stronger that we work it and. the more that we encourage others to. work it, you know? Um, and it's scary,

man. it. I I think people don't realize. it's scary, but then I think part of all. of us realize it something scary is. going on. Well, the stakes are big, right? I mean, 37 trillion in in. national that that's the national debt. 37 trillion. Most people like you really. don't have to be an economist. You don't. have to you don't need a pedigree to. understand that. That's getting a little. wobbly and and it's not sustainable. So, something radical has to happen.

something really unpopular is going to. have to have uncomfortable. It's going. to be uncomfortable. It's going to be. wildly uncomfortable. But what's going. to be way more uncomfortable is. whatever's after that sounds ve It. doesn't even sound human to me after. that. I go back to the slavery thing. I. mean, the idea of getting rid of that in. 1860, right? It was so many otherwise. rational people who were walking around.

influencers of the day with columns and. and people giving oratories and speeches. really smart people were saying we can't. do this the country will collapse and. other people were like well then let the. heavens fall because that's a hill I'll. die on right so every now and then. something rises to a place where you you. you you just can't talk about it the way. you'd been talking about it. And look,

man, I really wonder 150 years from now. what our great great great great. grandkids will be saying about us like. how right what will be the slavery of. today? Will it be the fact that we let. our country become completely dependent. on other countries who really don't like. us much? I mean, don't have any care. It's it's in it's insane. China I I. interviewed a guy yesterday who you.

would love. Ya Kell, he's called he. writes for the Epoch Times. He's a. senior editor over there. Okay. And he. has been on China hard for 20 years. and. he believes one of the greatest untold. stories right now is the fact that 60 to. 100,000 human. organs are. being harvested from prisoners in China.

every year as we speak. They're called. the full-on gong and they were 70 to 100. million of these people have been. persecuted forever. Gong. I'm going to. quit ordering it, dude. You have to. It. is bananas. Full on gong. When you look. at the number of prisons in China that. have hospitals built right next to them, you have to go, well, what's up with. that? And when you talk to these people, and there are countless examples, who. are scheduling open heart surgeries,

they're scheduling kidney replacements, right? You can't schedule those. You go. on a list and then you wait for somebody. to become brain dead in a motorcycle. accident. That's right. Because you. can't take a heart from a cadaavver. You. have to take it from a living but doomed. person. Yeah. Right. And so cutting that. line is about the rudest thing, right? I.

mean that that that that's a line you. don't want to cut. My sister got a liver. transplant and they we had to wait and. they called us over and we get over. there and be like, "No, the guy's going. to stay alive." And we're like, "Well, why? Don't call us then. We just drove. over here." I can't even imagine what. that is like. But I can tell you this, the organ industry in China is a $9. billion industry. And people are they're. making appointments for livers. They're. making appointments for hearts based on. knowing when the the guy's going to die. or they're killing them. They're killing.

them, dude. Wow. It's not based on Yes, it is based on knowing when they're. going to die. Exactly. No, because they. kill him and and you know what they tell. you is ah well you know look he's on. death row anyway and so like they tell. you a lot of things and you'll go okay. okay okay and so it's back to slavery. it's like well you know what I don't. really want to look at the reality of. organ harvesting if my kid needs a heart. please tell me a happy story about how.

the inmate I is is a murderer right and. we're going to and and right before we. kill him, we're going to anesthesicize. him and take his heart. Tell me that. story. It's not much different than in. 1860. It's like, look, I need clothes, man. My kids need clothes. Please don't. show me the raping and the whipping of. these poor people. Please don't show me. the middle passage and what happened, the unspeakable conditions on those. ships. I don't want to see that. I just.

want my clothes. Now, when I'm talking. 150 years from now, may maybe I could be. talking about 150 days from now. Please. don't show me the abortion, right? I. don't want to see that. That would. Please don't show me the diseased lungs. in your attempt to get me to stop. smoking. I don't want to see that. Please don't make me shoot the cow in. the head. I did that on season 3 of. Dirty Jobs. I slaughtered a cow and. butchered it with a mobile butcher just. to show viewers where their food comes.

from and what it takes to make a porter. house. what it takes to get a sirloin. difference between all these different. things. People's heads exploded because. the truth is, man, they don't want to. see where their food comes from, right? They'd prefer to think it's growing on a. hamburger tree. And we really don't want. to know the truth about a lot of this. I. mean, look, we're joking about this, but. you really want to know what's in this. little creamer? You really want to know. why this thing can sit on the shelf for. years? The answer is nothing good. And a. baby won't eat it, too. You see the one.

where they try to give that to a baby. and they won't eat it. Yeah. Because. they know. They know. So, look, we're. ostriches and we got our head in the. sand on a lot of different things. And a. lot of parents, you know, to bring it. back to kind of where we started, they. don't they don't want to see that that. 200 grand they invested in that college. degree can't get their kid a job in his. chosen field. They We don't want to look. at 37 trillion in debt. We don't want to. look at the fact that our country is is.

making only 2% of the clothing that we. wear. Dude, we have in this. country, a third of the United States is. covered with timber. Yeah. Covered with. timber. Now, our forests are rotting and. they're burning because we're not. tending to them. Meanwhile, guess who. the leading importer of timber is in the. world? China. Us. Oh, we're the leading. importer of it. We have a great deal. We. have more than anybody and we're the.

leading import. California has so much timber and they. import 80% of of what they need. How. much energy are we sitting on, right? Right. I just look at all of it and I. don't need to get polit. It's not. political. It's about it's some weird. combination of virtue signaling and and. and head in the sand. Well, and also I. think our media is probably a lot of it. has been under control of people who. don't want to champion America maybe.

You know, I don't know if that's true or. if it's just the fads and the way that. things have gone, but are it's just it's. always it seemed like things have gotten. like anti-American somehow in the past. even 10 years. Like the American flag. even became like kind of a right-wing. symbol as opposed to the symbol of our. country and whoever's people think that. things just happen. I believe that. there's strategy behind a lot of stuff. that's out there. Um, I want to switch. to a topic of so we but we talked before. about minimum wage. I don't think people. can survive on minimum wages these days.

I just don't think that they can do it. And I and and Bernie Sanders talked. about how well if a company makes more. money because they start using AI or for. whatever reason that shouldn't that. minimum wage go up within that company. for the workers? You know what do you. think? I think we have to do something. If if if somebody makes $8 an hour and. they work for eight hours, that's $64. You can buy food for your family for. that day these days. Yeah. With that. Well, look, I mean, I' it's a there are.

a lot of thoughts on that and I know. there's not one perfect answer. There's. not. But you can learn, I think. I mean, you have to understand that those jobs, minimum wage jobs, were were never. designed to be careers, right? They're. they're rungs on a ladder. But for some. people they are careers though. But but. the majority of that conversation next. like but but but like the first thing to. understand is you don't like the purpose. of work is not to merely make money.

It's probably the biggest reason you've. got to put food on the table. I I I get. all of that. But you don't go from a kid. into a fully actualized mature working. person. you you you have to go through. all kinds of like a crucible of fits and. starts and good jobs and jobs that make. sense and you know whether it's fast. food or whether it's maybe digging a. ditch or maybe putting siding on a house. one hot summer, right? It's like these. jobs uh that don't pay very well offer.

something else that's really really. really important to a person who is. maturing and and and growing. I know. what it is. I bet. Say it. They offer. you the time to think and plan and. strategize and get excited for something. that you want to do. It's almost like a. soil that you get to be in for a little. bit. It's like a buffet. I remember that. now. It's a buffet, man. You you you. don't you're not going to eat all of it. Yeah. It's not all going to taste good.

to you. You you you have to experience a. a whole long list of [ __ ] and and and. most of it is going to leave a funny. taste in your mouth. Most things aren't. for most people. It's a it it's a giant. process of of figuring it all out and in. the and and also learning who you are. Now, I get it. That doesn't address the. fact that somebody busting their ass. with inflation being wherever it is and. the cost of goods being wherever that is.

can't afford to feed their family on. that salary. Now, the other side's going. to say, "Yeah, why'd you have a family? what are you doing? What are you why. would you have a family before you have. the means to provide for them? And then. we're going to have that whole. conversation and it's and it's going to. get politicized. But if the basic. argument is wait a second, the people at. the top of this company are being. unfairly enriched at the expense of the. work. I totally get that, right? I. totally get it. And I'll tell you. something that gives me hope. All right?

Because I get constant. Thank you. Because yeah, we get stuck in the. doldrum sometimes. We get stuck in the. ditch and we don't look for the light. I'm going to give you the light, at. least a a couple beams of it. The the. doldrums and and the problem almost. always happens because it's door number. one or door number two. Everything is. binary. So in this conversation, it's. well, are you union or are you. management? Are you labor or are you. management? Right? And like people have. to choose. And now it's easy to forget.

that these are two sides of the same. coin because we always pit them against. one another and then people wind up in. interviews like this or any one of a. thousand other conversations and they're. going to get tagged as one or the other. So my hope is in an organization called. Opportunity Works. And I I I learned. about these guys pretty recently, but. two years ago, a company called.

Groundworks, who you'll love, hired me. to give a speech in Virginia Beach when. their CEO turned 5,500 of their. frontline workers into owners. Okay? So, so here's what Groundworks does. Groundworks will fix the foundation on. your house. Mhm. They will encapsulate a. crawl space. Um, and they will uh. waterproof your basement. Oh, I was. hoping you'd say hide your stepmother.

down there, but that's okay. Well, that's an upsell. But they'll do I mean, look, you mean you got to know who to. talk to, but but they like if you scroll. through that, that's Dirty Jobs 101. Yeah. I spent the first a big chunk of. the first season underneath houses doing. this kind of work. Now, a lot of these. people um they've got a high school. education. Some went further, but a lot. of the 5,500 guys I met on that day, uh. they spend their life doing backbreaking.

work. They were made owners. It's like. an ESOP plan and it goes all the way. down all the way through the company. Wow. And it's another one of those. moments, Theo. I'm sitting backstage and. I'm watching these guys are there with. their families and this is a financial. event. like it changes their life. So I. said to the owner, "Hey man, I'm I like. this because now I don't think there's. any frankly need for like how does a. union negotiate against a member if.

they're they own the company." It's like. you just took all the air out of that. tire. And he said, "Well, if you like. this, you got to meet my friend Pete. Stavros." Pete works for KKR. No. K. Oh, that third letter I wasn't sure I was. going to be. I was like, whoa. Well, Mike, I I'm not. feeling hope. I'm trying to head. forward. KKR. The the these were the. original uh barbarians at the gate. You. know, the whole Nabiscoco the like that.

world of private equity gets a really. bad rap. Uh and in some cases, I think. probably deservedly. I don't know about. them. Well, it's a that's okay. It it's. a deep dive, but it's like when you. think of when people talk about rollups, what they're talking about. I don't know. about that either. Okay, let's say. you've got a heating and air. conditioning company, plumbing company, electric company. Let's say you've had. it for 25 years, and let's say you you'd. like to retire, but but you really. can't, and you got 30 employees, and and.

you love them, and it's their job, and. so forth and so on. So the industry. consolidates when private equity comes. in and says, "Wait a second. We'll buy. you, okay? We're going to make you more. efficient. We're going to put you under. somebody some other name, okay? And and. and you'll be able to retire because. you've worked hard and your people will. well, you know, we're going to do in. some cases it's it's it's good for the. workers. In other cases, it's not so. good because in the name of efficiency,

you can gut a company." Right. So that's. the the negative rap on private equity. has has been that. But now what's. starting to happen at least in these. home services businesses is that this uh. ownership works element and this guy. Pete Stavros who works for KKR has done. this groundworks deal. There's Pete. He's awesome. They've done this with. like 70 companies where they'll go in.

and they will work with management to. make everybody in the company an owner. And it's it's a tough cell for. management because they got to let go of. some stuff some stuff. But the research. is incredible. Over time, what happens. is these. companies explode. They stay alive and. people are excited about it and hopeful. about it. Dude, there's I mean, who who. do you want to come to your house to fix. a plumbing problem? An employee who you.

know is is the the epitome of a. stereotypical plumber, butt crack, hanging out, pissed off, overweight, right? Like everything you've seen. plumbers portrayed as. Yeah. Drugs, coke. Or would you like the owner of the. company to come out and fix your. problem? It changes everything. And I've. seen Like you guys should take a deep. dive if you want, but look at some of. these videos where like I saw one the.

other day, a company, I think they were. outside of Chicago, New Core, maybe that. they make garage doors. It's another one. of these companies you would never think. about. It's like Moog and their ball. bearings. And what is that? Well, all of. a sudden, like you got truck drivers in. these companies who have been there for. 12 years, and when this scheme goes into. place, they leave this gathering with a. check for four, five, $600,000, changes. the that's a that's a financial event in. their life and and it changes the way.

you think about that sweatshirt, right? It it's that's what I'm talking about. there there is a way forward that. doesn't keep us stuck in the binary of. labor management and I think we have to. you have to realize like I start. thinking like the only way to compete. with big business is you have to start a. new way to do big business that like I. wanted to sell like a water right I. thought like so many people are in. recovery and so many more people are. headed into recovery for drug addiction. um sex and uh pornography addiction like.

that's one of the biggest epidemics. that's coming right now is pornography. addiction, right? And it's not even here. yet. It's coming. Um I see what you did. there. It's coming soon. Uh I don't know. Hopefully not super soon. It's just you. and me and you. Stay on that bull for 8. seconds and we'll hope for the best. Oh. yeah. Yeah. How bad's that creamer over. there? I feel sleepy. Can I lie down? Yeah. Yeah, dude. That's. a uh Okay, I can keep going on that. But.

um but yeah, it's like you have to fight. fire with fire and you have to fight it. with more compassionate and empathetic. fire. I was like what if we sold a water. where the proceeds of it went to put. people in rehab, right? So then it would. be really hard especially these days. where so many people all they have left. is how they feel kind of because a lot. of other things have been taken away. from them. It would be hard to say okay. I'm not going to buy this. I know this. is going to help somebody get better. Right? It's like I think you have to. start thinking beyond like this circle.

that we've been in of of just like. profiteering um and of like combining. everything. Everything's just like like. uh these um what are they called when. they all get together but it's one owner. whatever um co-op. a co-op co-op or like. um because a lot of the stories that I. heard this is I just thought about this. um a lot of my friends stories were that. their dads got laid off after working at. a place for 20 years and 25 years or.

their grandfather that was the story. that I heard where I bet a generation. earlier was you know my grandfather got. a big severance thing and he got this. and that and he was like the pride of. the company. A lot of the other stories. became my dad got laid off after 22. years. They didn't get, you know, and I. think a lot of that happened because, like you're saying, umbrella companies. came in, things got consolidated. Um, I. mean, we're meeting with Mark Zuckerberg. and they're like up against antirust. stuff right now. Oh, yeah. Big time. Which is pretty crazy and scary. Oh, dude. I I mean, there's so much to think.

and say about Facebook. Mark's coming in. here specifically. We're going to see. him in um Los or whatever they live at. Facebook. Yeah, they're down the. peninsula. Um, from where I live, north. of you, amazing campus. Check out the. roof. Really? When you go there? Yeah. I. don't know if it's changed. Is it good? Is it siding? It's sushi and a lot of. siding. Yeah, sushi and siding. Pretty. amazing. Oh, a roof is just brave. siding. Let me tell you what Mark did. for me, just so you get a s. I mean, there's just endless things to say about.

the guy there. I'm fascinated to get to. spend time with him. Well, you know, I I. wouldn't be here without Facebook. I. know it's crazy cuz I there's clips of. me out there telling Jay Leno I'd rather. have hot needles stuck in my eyes than. you book a face or send a tweet or. whatever that was. Oh yeah. But you know. once I realized that all the shows I. work on could be programmed basically by. the people who watch them. That was that. was amazing to me. So I got you know 8 n.

million people out there now. Uh six on. Facebook and a couple great. Oh no. Look, it it's this is my uh these are my. bosses, you know, and and and I'm super. late to the YouTube party, but I just. got a million over there. You did? Oh, well, your show's on there, too. It. comes out May 2nd, right? And that show. wouldn't exist without Zuckerberg. Okay. Let's hear about it. So, so six years. ago, Mark uh invites me down to Facebook.

and he talks about this thing called. watch Facebook watch. And the thought. was who are we going to be, you know, 10. years from now and who who are we really. going to compete with and how is that. going to work and and could we be. Netflix? Should we be a kind of Netflix? So that company basically committed to. spending close to a billion dollars to. answer that question. So how do you. figure it out? You greenlight a couple. of shows and they did something called.

Ball in the Family, some famous. basketball player. They did something. with Jada Pink at Smith and they did. something with me. What they did with me. was a show called Returning the Favor. Returning the Favor, I think you would. dig it. it basically I would look for. and Facebook would tell me about people. in these little towns that you probably. couldn't find on a map uh that were. doing something super cool in their. neighborhood in a in a totally selfless.

way. So it's like bloody dogooders. running a muck, right? And so we would. go in there and we'd meet these people. and uh we would tell them like I'm not. there at this point. I would send the. crew in and they'd say, "Hey, we're. working on a documentary about your. town. Uh we understand you're doing some. good work, maybe with foster care, maybe. with PTSD, right? And we would uh love. to talk to you about that." So, meanwhile, they're filming that and I. come in later and parades are arranged.

and we we free up a big chunk of money, sometimes a hundred grand to uh maybe. build something that allows them to do. more of what they're already doing. some. some kind of gift. So, the show, it was. a feelood show, but it was also the. making of a feelood show. Now, here's. where it gets crazy. We do 100 episodes, which is a lot. The show's a hit. It's a. lot. It's downloaded uh 450 million. times. No way. Okay, dude. Congratulations, bro. You're an. infection. And it's a good one. It gets.

crazier. I win an Emmy. Okay. Like, I. never won an Emmy. I hope it was Emmy. Rossom, huh? Oh, man. Is she cute or. not? Sorry, that was a bad joke. No, no, she's something. She is. I don't even. know who she is. I just I was just. thinking of the only Emmy I know. No, she's a she's a good one. Um Yeah, there. you go. Yeah, she's talented. Rossom. damn near killed them. It's an old Emmy. Rossome joke. Um so what you got to know. is this never happen. Hits are hard. Emmys are hard of all the things that. I've worked on to to be recognized this.

way. Right. So we we get to 100. episodes, I win Miami, and we're. cancelled two weeks later. Yeah. Yeah, now that's impossible. But what happened. at Facebook was they they decided after. four seasons that this whole watch. platform working, they're just not going. to compete with Netflix. So, no harm, no. foul. Um, but it was stunt. We had two. million people on a Facebook page who. who would watch that show like on the.

edge of their seat and was a giant. community of people who really gave a. [ __ ] and they were super interested cuz. remember not so long ago in fact today. the country is so divided and there's so. few things everybody can agree on. You. know this show was I think one of them. It was it was just a celebration of the. neighbors you wish you had. M I don't. own returning the favor, but we're. relaunching it uh next week, May 2nd,

under a new title called People You. Should Know. And dude, I I'm I'm not. like overly earnest. I get all my. sentimentalities taken care of in my. foundation, but this thing, I mean, whether it's addiction or you're going. to meet a guy on this show called Steve. Hots. He he runs something called the. Blackhorse Forge down in Fredericksburg. The PTSD thing. You're up to speed with. how bad that is? Not how bad. I mean, I. know that it's a you hear about it so.

much and it's used so much. I think it's. hard to know what's really going on with. it. Well, last year. 6,47 service people uh killed. themselves. And uh divide it by 365, it's like 17.5 a day. But that doesn't. count overdoses. That doesn't count, you. know, death by misadventure, addiction. You like add up all of the deaths, the. preventable deaths of despair and the.

numbers way beyond that. So on returning. the favor, we profiled like we the. number of things people are doing to. combat this you you you would love. We. hunted pythons in the. Everglades. They're annoying. They're. big and they're, you know, they're very. snaky. uh putting motorcycles together. in Indiana. It's just you got to get. these guys out of their head if you want. to help them. This guy Steve the Black. Horse Forge has had 22,000 vets come. through. Wow. Zero suicides. He's batten.

a thousand. Steve Hot. Yeah. Here, dude. You would you. So, this guy was like a. dress designer, an interior designer. All right. He goes sideways with his. boss. He decides to enlist. 82nd. Airborne. Has hundreds of jumps. Yeah. Compresses his back. damn near breaks. it. Loses an eye. Comes home absolute. rock bottom. He's he he's just it it's. everything he loved is upside down. And. he starts making knives in a forge and.

realizes that when you're when you're. forging, the only thing you can think. about is is really what you're doing and. don't burn yourself, right? And it it so. completely took him out of his out of. his head. I could have gone either way. You see a depressed dude making a knife, you're like, "This, how's this going?". He's made hundreds. Wow. They're He's. got a whole line called the Jackalopes, named after zool cryptozoological. creatures, right? Like the beast of. Bladenber and all these things. So, he's. one of the guys we'll be featuring on.

this thing. That's him. There he is. Right there. That's him, man. Oneeyed. Steve. [ __ ] tough son of a One Steve. Yeah, he threw me out the door. Um, you're listening to Widespread Panic. Yeah. I like them. Oh, what? Wait a. minute. Wait a minute. Am I conflating. Panic at the Disco? Yeah, you might be. They should combine. You'd have. widespread Panic at the Disco. At least. for one small tour, one massive stadium. extravaganza. Yeah, that'd be something, dude. I like that. Or De Leopard and. Glorilla. Maybe like Deaf Glorilla. Def.

Gorilla. Yeah, dude. They should have. cool bands that merge. Taco Bell and. Pizza Hut did it. How about Queen and. Kings of the Stone Age? Yeah. Kings and. Queens of the Stone Age. Like I have a. little family. That'd be amazing. Yeah. Or just like Yeah. Or trans of the stone. age, you know. Yeah. Buy I was going to. say Kansas and Boston. Get get all the. Kansas, Boston, and Chicago. That'd be amazing. God, that's a great. idea. I'll tell you what else they want. to this whole QVC thing dragged forward.

with a guy like you. I' If you'd have. me, I'd do it, too. But a celebration of. Americanmade products done at like with. this level of production. What you. really need is a back office to help you. with the with the stuff. Do you know. Josh Smith, Montana Knife Company? Get. his ass. Didn't we see each other at. Dave uh Ramsay's thing? Were you there? No, I I I've done Dave Ramsey's thing. Were you there? I think I don't know if. we might have been there at the same.

time or Tucker Carlson. Were you at that. Zen thing he had? Yeah. That this guy. makes Yes. Some of the mo he's a master. bladesmith. He was on uh what is it? forged in fire. And I met him about a. year ago. This guy, I mean, talk about a. quest. He makes all everything is in. America, just like Bard over at the. American Giant. I love that. Only he's. up in Montana. These knives are amazing. He comes on my podcast and um full. disclosure, he's not a sponsor, but he.

said, "You know what you're doing with. Microworks? Anything I can do to help?". And people offer, they say nice things, whatever. So I said, "Well, I I tell you. what you can do. If if you want to make. a Microworks blade, you know, my real. limited, you know, I can I I I promise. you my people will buy them like that. because your knives are amazing." And, you know, when they go to your site, maybe they'll get a sense of who you are. and what you've done and how many jobs. you've created and so forth and so on. And uh he makes 300 of these things.

Wow. They're unbelievable. They're not. cheap. We sold them for 350. let me keep. every we we we raised like. $70,000 immediately immediately. Now. they're doing a knife and my foundation. participates and and I'm going to talk. to Bard about doing something similar. because to your point you got to fight. fire with fire, right? That's the thing. You can't just keep yelling at it. You. can't just like this is what they're do. This is what pe you have to start to be. like, well, how do.

we be how do you ingenuity it or. whatever it's called? Engine engine. engineer engineer. Well, look, yeah, how. do but but that's how you win. It's like. but just pointing the finger at a time. that you're not doing anything. Here's. something. You have to you have to win. the game up here first. You gota it's. you know what it is? It's it's uh it's. asymmetrical warfare. You have to think. there like in this conversation. typically Walmart is the devil because.

you know the rap is oh well they're. buying stuff super cheap cuz people need. it super cheap and that's what Walmart. is and whatever. The thing people don't. know and I and I don't work for Walmart. but I'm I'm just telling you I I I know. them pretty well and they have spent uh. nearly $700 billion dollar on US supply. chain. Wow. So, what happens is, God, I. hope I'm not talking out of turn. They. made a deal with American Giant, too, didn't they? Yes. That's what I'm going. to tell you. And this is what your.

audience needs to understand. And this. is why it's really hard to get, you. know, good guys and bad guys with black. hats and white hats. It's not that. simple. You So, you got a company like. American Giant who makes a great t-shirt. and it says like, you know, Americanmade. on the front. It's thick. It's. indestructible. I got one. Bad news, $75. Now, most people can't pay 75 bucks. for a t-shirt, no matter how rad, right? You just can't. It's just not in the. wood. But what happens if a company like.

Walmart, the biggest retailer in the. world, sets aside a real chunk of money. and calls a company like American Giant, and says, "I tell you what, we love that. shirt. If we. order a million of them or even half a. million as opposed to the normal 5 or. 10,000 IPO you might get. If we blow. this thing up, what kind of price could. we actually get at that level and then.

the price starts to come down? Yeah. 15, 20 bucks, you know, under $20 you can. get an Americanmade t-shirt. That's what. you're talking about. It's not going to. happen with the current way of thinking. The problem is if I go out in the world. and tell that story, there's a whole. long list of union people who are going. to say, "Mike, you don't understand. Walmart's the devil because this, this, this, this, and this." And I say, "Look, I get it. That's your fight." And and I.

don't particularly have have skin in. that game. I'm sympathetic to your. cause. But it's back to that tier 2, tier one conversation. You want to talk. about tariffs like it's only an e. economic thing or you want to talk about. it up here. If you're going to talk. about it up there, you can't just look. at Walmart as the devil because you've. been told they're the devil. And you. can't look at American giant as a small. scrappy US company that makes things. that are too expensive because they're. doing the best they can with the way the. table's been set. But if you get these.

two guys together and all of a sudden. you get a different kind of investment. in a supply chain in our country in a. different way and that's how a t-shirt. can be made in this country for a price. most people can afford and that's a. story that look that can happen with. knives that can that can happen with. anything anything imagine like a QVC. type of thing right where it's like this. is Americanmade and it's awesome right. you would like make sure that the. products were good and that they had. enough of a supply chain where they. could sell or Maybe they can only make.

50 this month, but that's what they are. And then they're limited. And then you. have like something that's a real person. made it. And then when you're walking. around with something on your back, this. is like you're not just carrying a you. don't you don't just have a shirt on. your back that makes you look cool. You. have somebody's well-being and their. purpose on your back, you know? And so. now you're carrying something together. You know, once you're both carrying. purpose, it takes a lot of it's pressure. if it's just you, but if you put the. same weight on two people, that's. purpose, man. Well, look, man. That's. that that's rod busting 101. Look what.

you just did there. Go full on metaphor. there. Like that's I did a job a couple. years ago uh with these rod busters. They're iron workers, right? And they. and they carry uh the uh rebar, right? So you got a a chunk of rebar. Say it's. like I don't know whatever the gauge is. It's thick. These things weigh a couple. hundred pounds and you get like eight of. them. So you got 800 lb on eight guys. shoulders and that's the only way you. can move them. You know, you have to put. the weight on your shoulder. Where it. gets crazy is, well, that guy's short.

and that guy's 6'3. Now, if you're 6'3, you you're screwed. Yeah. You're doing a. lot. Yeah. Right. So, it's like the. whole I mean, it's really a great. metaphor cuz when you're humping the. iron up to the top of the skyscraper, you're stepping through a grid of rebar. that's already been laid. And if you. trip and you go down, you take everybody. with you. So, it's an incredible. metaphor for for teamwork, consequences, stakes, working together, right? And and.

to your point, um there there are there. are other ways to get the rebar to where. you need to to set it, but this is the. best way. And it and it really does take. a different way to think. And then, ironically, of course, have you ever. seen a bridge before they pour the. concrete where it's the whole thing is. just like a skeleton of steel? It's. sounds very nice. It's Well, it's it's. beautiful and it's artistic and it's. like what we were talking about before.

the like There it is. That's like a. whole panel of rebar there, right? Oh, yeah. and that's just on the floor. But. when you see like an overpass being. built, um it it it's like some kind of a. dinosaur and it's all done with hundreds. of tons of of of iron and like the guys. who do this work. There you go. That. kind of thing. It it it's just. mind-boggling. And then when they come, like the concrete guys come and they.

bury it, man, forever. No one ever sees. the artistry. M no one ever sees the. work of the iron worker uh you know for. 100 years it'll that's a good point. it'll live in the concrete well that's. like so much of that is happening to. people today they feel like their good. work has been covered in concrete they. feel like it's invisible they don't feel. appreciated they don't feel like they're. moving the needle they don't feel like. they're part of a team you know and we.

have to do it the the toughest part then. is I've found in my own life when it is. if I keep and not it's not like you're. playing the victim, but sometimes you're. the person that gets affected by. something, but you also have to be the. person to be a part of fixing it. And. that's the toughest thing because. there's a part of me that always wants. to be like, "This isn't fair." And I'm. not saying for me, I've been fortunate. in my life. I can afford to pay my rent. and I can afford to buy my groceries. But there's certainly been times where. I've in the past where I've been like, you know, this is unfortunate. You know,

it's their it's the it's society. It's. this this fault, but still I it put me. in a certain position. I still have to. be the one to correct my position. Dude, it's you in the end. Look, it whatever. it is, it starts with you. That's why. the first tenant on my stupid sweat. pledge is about that gratitude. I I. don't I don't think you can feel sorry. for yourself if your default position is. grateful. Yeah. Oh, that's the truth, man. Self-pity can be a drug. I was.

addicted to self-pity for a long time. I. didn't even realize it. Yeah, man. I was. addicted to self-pity. I was like, "Oh, that's a" and I would get addicted to. it. Um, feels good to feel bad. It does. Especially when that's the thing you're. most used to feeling. It feels. impossible to even attempt to feel good. I was afraid to feel good cuz I would be. I was afraid I would leave my bad. feelings behind and they were the only. feelings I'd ever even known. Oh my god. You you you would betray your. negativity. Yes. And thereby let. yourself down again. Yeah. Yeah. That's.

a That's crazy. And I never even knew. that could happen. Man, that took a ton. of work to get to do that. Uh yeah, I. would love to think of something. It's. so funny because I've been trying to. think of that. How do we fight fire with. like a fire that has a feeling in it, right? And then Yeah. What about unions, though? We had Sean O'Brien come in. about unions. Unions helps a lot of. people. Do you feel like unions are bad. or do you feel like unions are good or. it's just too broad? Too broad. Never. mind. No, no, no. It's a great question, but it's like, okay, so the iron workers.

we were just talking about. Yeah, that. was a cheap question to me to just fling. at the end. Well, look, my my my own. problem I it's first of all, 2,200. people through Microworks. I'd say maybe. 20 25% of them are are working through a. union shop. Okay. Most of them are. electricians, some plumbers. Um, but by. and large, you know, the the percentage. in my cohort of scholarship recipients. and workers is it's it's actually bigger.

than the national I think the national. right now 8% of workers are in a union. or something like that. Maybe a little. less. You check and I'm not sure, but. it's close to that. Um, so yeah, I don't. I don't want to paint with too broad a. brush, but the thing it's it's like tier. two and tier one with tariffs. If you're. going to have a conversation about how. best to negotiate between labor and. management, there you go. 10% in 23, 11.2 and 23, 6.7 private sector. That's.

the that's really what you're asking. Look at that. 6.7% in 19 uh in in 2024. in the private sector like like iron. workers or plumbers. 35.7% in the public sector. M that could. be the post office, that could be. teachers, that could be the SEIU, that. could be, you know, all sorts of. different things. If businesses start to. become more like ground works, you. wouldn't even need a union. Thank you. So really, that's the future. Fire. How. do you Yeah, you it's reconceptualizing.

things. I call it door number three, right? You can't just give me one or. two, left or right, blue collar or white. collar, Republican or Democrat. It's all. a shell game. You have to realize this. whole thing has been a shell game. It's. a sucker's bet. Yes. It's like the color. of collars is no longer for sale. Don't. talk to me about blue or white car. That's the point of the groundwork. story. You got a guy covered with mud. under your house. Your greatest.

investment. Okay. Doing something to. save the foundation. Now, are you going. to call that guy a bluecollar worker? You're going to call that guy just a a. grunt? That guy is a [ __ ] superhero. surgeon at that moment. That's right. For your family to sleep safe at night, that guy is your surgeon. That's right. And he's also an owner of the company. So now all of that other pride of. ownership, all of that other coded. driven integrity thing, right? You you. you can start to see how you might be.

able to build a cohesive unit around. something other than a paycheck. And. that's not an excuse to say the. paychecks couldn't be better. I'm I'm. just saying that if you if you only look. at the economic ramifications of a. tariff, that's not much different than. only looking at whether or not you like. your job based on what your paycheck. says. Yeah. And if you if you take the. bait on that, the next thing you know, you're going to be having an argument. about uh UBI, universal basic income,

and you're going to get sucked into this. whole conversation about, well, what are. people going to do if there is no work? and we ought to just pay them not to do. anything. And then you've got all kinds. of uh moral and ethical questions and it. never stops. If if at a certain point at. a certain point you have to invest in. your own country and your own people, the spirit of your own people. And I. can't. understand how that's not extremely. evident right now. And if UBI, if. universal basic income helps people to. get by for a couple years or 5 years.

while these while like things adjust. from going from let's try to build stuff. here in our own country and make people. feel empowered and if they're as if. they're part of the an assembly line of. humanity and of purpose and um of a. nation and of a a group think of of a. moral code, then I I don't I think that. that's totally fine. Let's stop giving. money to other places. um who have. enough money right now and help our own. people out for a little while, you know,

and I know I'm opening up bigger cans of. worms, but yeah, it's just I [ __ ] I am. all in on cuz if if you don't do it now, it is to me it appears like it's kind of. going to be a wrap. and but I still believe that there's. that human spirit that there's that. there's that team spirit, there's that. like that whatever made those people. whatever that thing is if to be an. American even if it's not even real, but. that we believe in it, there's still. that inside of us that makes me believe.

that we could turn it around. That guy. Bard who you who you brought up, he's a. Wall Street guy and 16 years ago he. said, "No, I've just his family came. over on the freaking Mayflower, just so. you know, that's who this guy is." And. he said, "Nope, redo. I'm gonna build a. company called American Giant, and I'm. going to prove that this country can. still make quality clothing. Now, that's. a very personal mission that could only. be embarked upon by a genuinely.

hard-headed dude. Okay? But 16 years. later, they're still standing and they. they're doing it. They're proving it. right now. Can you do it to scale? This. is a whole another conversation, but. we'll talk about another time. We can, but yeah, can you do it to scale? What. pieces have to start? But you have to. start somewhere. It's like the crazy. person, the leader was first the crazy. person. The revolutionaries were first. in viewed at as insane always. It's not. just that. It's it's it's every great.

accepted truth. today began as madness. Yeah. It was. dismissed and then it was grudgingly. considered and then it was slowly. accepted as fringe and then it was more. widely believed as possible and then it. got a consensus and then it became the. truth and then it became the. self-evident truth. Yeah, that's how it. always always happens. It's going to.

happen with ev with every single thing. right now from from tariffs to climate. change to meat eating to to addiction. All the things we think we know about. all of these different things are in a. state of evolution. I agree. And I don't. I don't know where or how it ends, but. I'll tell you this, man. It's exciting. We are long we are long in certainty. today and and and and we're very short. in in understanding and it's it's it's.

just going to take time. It's just going. to take time to be as certain about. these other things as we are about. slavery. You know, it it takes time for. people. And I don't know I don't know. how it ends. But look, I. again, you're engaged. what you're. doing. I I can see that you love it. You. love it on stage. You love talking to. people and you love helping your. audience. I I my hope for everybody who.

is listening is that they can find a. pursuit that that gives them a measure. of that. And I've seen it in welders. I've seen it in plumbers. I I've seen it. in entrepreneurs. I've seen it in. writers. My mom just wrote her fourth. book. She's 87. This woman wrote every. day for 60 years. Theo cleaning up after. my dirty son. Well, that was kind of her. second one. But but no, for 60 years her. dream was to be a best-selling author. She never got published till she was 80. and then she went to number four and now.

she's had four books. I only mention it. because I, you know, I I talk about work. ethic all the time. I talk about my pop. I talk about dirty jobers and everything. else. my mom right in front of me, you. know, is a four-time New York Times. best-selling author and she's 87 and. that's a second act. It didn't really. happen for her till she was 80. Yeah. So, whatever level of hope or. hopelessness or despair people are in, man, there's I feel like we've just. talked about a lot of inspiration. I. mean, I feel inspired. I feel like we.

can do things. I just I just I feel like. things are so possible, right? And yeah, I just appreciate that there's an. audience that tunes in and I hope they. just stay patient, you know, and um. we'll keep thinking together and we'll. find ways to do things new. I just I I I. don't think it's that far off to change. things. You know, you're you're a. hillbilly from Louisiana who just. interviewed the president of the United. States. Oh, yeah. Are you kidding me? Yeah, that's a great Are you kidding me? That is a great point, dude. When when.

when people tell me, "Dude, I remember. when I couldn't find my shirt for almost. one month.". By by the way, three and a half. weekends, dude, you talk about shirts. I. I can't believe you got a you got a. wardrobe rack here. Oh, yeah, we do. And. and that the the whole smiley face on. the thing and the that's exactly what. you were talking about that that's your. it's like your credo. It's your code. It's your It's such a simple thing, you. know. What's it say on the back? It just. says be good to yourself on the back.

Well, here you go. Cuz yeah, we're a lot. of late bloomers here, but we're [ __ ]. hopeful. And yeah, I think I think we. can do something cool. Like, we just. have to make sure we get it right, you. know? You got to try, man. Right. You. have to try. That's the thing about. terrorists. Like, [ __ ] try. I don't. give a There's nothing to lose. I've. been to every place. Everybody I know is. in addiction there. What are we What are. we waiting for to happen? Tell me how. it's working with 37 trillion in the. hole. Tell me what's working. Okay, we're this whole thing is cobbled. together with Kleenex and spit and we've.

confused the fact that we're still. living in in a in a workable situation. with a situation that truly works. Yeah, it's it's it's very wobbly. Kleenex and. spit. I agree, man. It's time to clear. our own throat and make our own [ __ ]. glue, too. I think, you know, I thought. you were going to go with fle. Oh, it. was flem, but it was Well, if you're. clearing your throat, you're cutting up. the fleg. You put the flem in the glue. and then the next thing you know it's. all in one of these little Sunny Delight. things and I'm feeling weirdly. caffeinated and subdued. Micro, your new.

show is out May 2nd. We'll make sure to. share um some clips of it on our um. Instagram page as well and on our. Facebook. Thanks Pal. Yeah, and it's a. rehash of It's not a rehash. It is a. continuation of It's a celebration of. the neighbors you wish you had. Returning the favor thanks to Mark. Zuckerberg. Set the standard. People you. should know is what I'm going to do. Look, I I I don't even I don't know what. else to to do except point the camera at. people who who are actually making a.

difference, whether they're making a. sweatshirt or a submarine or saving. lives by making knives in a forge. Man, I these stories, Theo, that's the that's. where we land the plane with your. permission. If you're looking for hope, Yeah. it's in the forge. It's in the sewing. machines. It's it's with a welding. torch. It's it's it's it's with an. attitude that says, "I'm going to. cheerfully take hold of that son of a. [ __ ] and I'm going to lift it up, and.

I'm going to do my part to get the rebar. to where it needs to go. I'm going to do. my best. I'm going to try and if I fall, I'm going to stand back up cuz life is a. uh it's a journey, brother. And it's a. job. I'm not going to say a dirty one. Just a job." Mike Road, thanks so much, brother. Anytime. Now I'm just falling. on the breeze and I feel I'm falling. like these leaves. I must be corner. stone. Oh, but when I reach that ground,

I'll share this piece of mind I found. I. can feel it in my. bones. But it's going to take.