James Blake | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #424

we've got tour dates to announce uh. Louisville uh Indianapolis. we added a show in Indianapolis. Shreveport. Louisiana Baton Rouge Louisiana uh. Corpus Christi uh Houston. uh we added a show in Houston added a. show in Phoenix added a show in New York. City and added a show in Austin Texas uh. those are all at theovan.com. t-o-u-r make sure to do ticketing.

through those links to get accurately. priced ticketing and uh thank you guys. that's all Return of the Rat tour so if. you've already seen it it'll be similar. to that uh still just so you know we've. got lots of new merch up at. theovanstore.com check out the new. hitter hunting collection. also the new gang gang crew necks in. orange and purple and gold fits we got. the new Rat King t-shirt in purple and. black that thing that's the thing baby.

if you haven't seen that one check it. out theovinstore.com. today's guest is a Grammy award-winning. musician and producer. um he creates he's one of the most. creative people I've ever met oh he's a. friend of mine. and um. and he's someone I really enjoy talking. to and having gotten to speak with him. in a while. so I'm grateful for our opportunity. today. he has produced music and written music.

for and with some of the top artists in. the world uh I'm excited today to catch. up with him to learn a little bit more. about his creative process and to just. spend some time uh furthering our. friendship today's guest is the one and. only James Blake. [Music]. and tell you.

[Music]. [Applause]. what are they called lazy boys the. things that. I saw one in friends at one point you. did. lazy boys are not a really big they're. not a thing in England bring your mic in.

let's okay there we go with the seat you. mean. yeah like what they call a lazy boy. doesn't exist in in England I don't. think well I think because we got it. once they got to America people probably. got more lazy I would guess right and. they're like do you think that's what it. was it was okay so it's a. self-fulfilling prophecy I feel like a. little bit right it's a circular. situation. like I think the first chairs didn't. even have a seat on it it was just like. a straight up piece and then someone. lazy sat on it yeah and then they had to. create yeah they're like oh this could.

be better right yeah right that's. interesting it's funny that we got to. America and created a lot of like lazy. stuff you know maybe I don't know. whether I don't know where the lazy. stereotype came from I mean. I mean. it seems like a pretty industrious Place. yeah especially around the time when. they got it well I think yeah because. then they hit the Industrial Revolution. you know I think a couple I don't know. when people even got here I mean there's. a lot of speculation but. um but you're from originally from.

Britain I'm from England yeah you're. from England and so if somebody says. England is that. is that more top shelf than say in. Britain no no you know I'll be careful. how I say this uh no no uh there no it's. it's not I mean everywhere in Britain is. you know it's just a. sort of a collection of places when you. say Britain and I'm part of Britain as. well I'm part of the UK uh yeah I'm also.

probably a mix of of a lot of different. things you know historically so. I think I'm a bit Irish a bit. um a bit Welsh oh the Welsh I hear about. sometimes yeah they travel it's down is. he well guaranteed do you think is he. who else that UFC guy. look that up Zach can you can you look. up if Darren till as well. I don't know you know what I've I've. really lost track of UFC recently I. don't know why yeah I haven't watched it. for a couple. he's English.

can he be both. you could be both he could be both. somewhere I mean the Welsh is it I think. it's a dominant gene oh oh he's a. Liverpool man yeah I gotta I wish okay I. wish I had a better chart about the. British I don't have a good. you know I believe in it I've seen a lot. of the you know I believe I just I mean. I gotta see I wish I knew more. about the about the British yeah just. kind of what it feels like I feel like.

you have better posture inside of your. soul that's what I think it feels like. when you talk when the British they have. like I think this this uh this myth that. we're sophisticated. it's very it's pervasive right but. I honestly don't know where it comes. from. and. I think I think it's just the way we. sound it's not real I you know what I. mean. I think sometimes phonetics and like. someone's accent can make them seem. something and then it's just all.

can be complete bollocks I mean yeah. because the British they sound when. they're talking like there's perfectly. set silverware on the side of their. mouth that's what it feels like to me. yes when I hear someone british talking. like they even do that little spoon and. you're like what is that for you know. yeah when they say it's for shrimp. you're like how will you even use this. on a shrimp you know I'm not being a. pervert a little spoon yeah you know a. little spoon the little spin is for I. mean. for sugar in tea I guess I really don't. know I mean the spoon differences in in.

size of teaspoons here it you know it it. catches me out a lot which is what I'm. making if you want to make anything but. yeah I think when I see British people I. guess there is like that yeah I feel. like I do feel a sophistication I feel. like I. I feel like I'm like they came out of. the library and they're giving me for I. feel like there's something about it to. an American person you know I just again. I don't know where it comes from because. I think when I came over here. I noticed that a lot of the smartest.

people I'd met. were from every I mean I don't know you. know it's just you got smart people. everywhere dumb people everywhere and. you also were getting into an age where. you were probably gonna start meeting. more people you were in your field yes. so yes and also you know when it comes. to musicians. we're not. we don't tend to be the most. kind of um. articulate people for some reason.

I think. we're not the best people to have. conversations with I find that with. musicians. um so I had to Branch out. not because I'm such a great. conversationalist but because I just. I noticed that a lot of my conversations. with musicians tended to be. more one-dimensional. and then outside of that there wasn't. like a broad and I myself didn't have. like a broad knowledge of stuff and and. because I think music sort of funnels. you into like a.

you know it's a bit like. it's kind of like pavlovian conditioning. right if you if you get. uh if you're rewarded for for kind of. your. your primary way of speaking which is. through music probably if you're like a. writer or musician the likelihood is. that you're you're better at. articulating your emotions through music. and then. outside of that you can be kind of. stumped. um which is I think you find like a lot. of like very sort of socially anxious. musicians and stuff which I've.

definitely been myself and then. yeah and then you then you're rewarded. for. for that one expression cons you know. constantly right of course maybe become. successful hopefully and then then. people pay you for that expression and. no one's paying you to talk yeah no. one's no one's paying you to express. yourself in any other way or be funny or. whatever it is right so yeah you can. have so much it's like yeah you start to. feel like that's where some of your. reward is is at and so that's where your.

most your value is at and so then. yeah it makes sense to me yeah and then. I think after that you just start to. all the other muscles atrophy right so. so then chatting is not I mean when I. met my girlfriend I I wasn't. really finishing sentences. [Laughter]. because. I don't anyone's sort of required me to. yeah yeah they'd just be like oh we know.

we know what he means he's probably that. was probably very funny wherever that. was going. um it's funny well this is great because. this is how you and I met I met your. girlfriend yeah and um she was a comedy. fan she loves comedy yeah she loves to. laugh and uh she introduced me to your. special oh she did yeah and uh we came. to see like the first one that's right. you guys came to see me um where do we. see you. um. Comedy Store. what's the what's it called yeah Comedy. Store Comedy Store here yeah well yeah.

because I remember one time I saw her at. the comedy store and uh. she was like yeah I'm gonna catch a Uber. or something I was like I'll give you a. ride home you know she's like I don't. live far and I'm just thinking like I'm. like beautiful girl I got my hook time. you know I couldn't my hopes have been. lost I've been like like I'm like. literally while she's talking I'm like. oops get over here man I'm gonna pick. you up so I got my hopes up and uh I. drive her um you know I drive her it's. it's in Hollywood and it's kind of in.

the Hills not not not it's it's in a. nice place there's a couple of right. yeah we've actually moved since then not. far yeah yeah yeah not way out there you. know yeah yeah but um and then I she's. like you have to meet my boy well that's. not a good improvisation for her but. she's like you've got to meet my. boyfriend yes and I was like oh God he. sounds like a great guy. um and she goes no he would absolutely. love you or she might have already said. that he's a fan of yours or yeah yeah.

and then uh you guys came to the comedy. story yeah yeah one time I was very. nervous to meet you at the time yeah. yeah I was. well yeah because I think. you know there's this um. there's this Mutual like mutual. appreciation I think between Comedians. and musicians I think a lot of musicians. want to be Comedians and a lot of. comedians want to be musicians and you. know that's that's like a general rule. although I haven't ever heard you. express interest in being a musician uh. but I know nor do I want to be a. comedian but I think.

I I think there's I didn't really have. any comedian friends at that point yeah. and we'd been watching a lot of stand-up. comedy and we've been going to the like. Comedy Store and we've been going to. like different shows and. I just kind of felt intimidated by the. idea that I needed to be funny. ah you know I thought like. not only did I did I really respect what. you did but I don't get I don't really. get Star Struck particularly yeah. because just through exposure to you.

know the industry and stuff. but I also but in this one way I sort of. felt insecure I was like wait I think I. told you this before. um I was like I'm you know do I have to. like do I have to be on do I have to. like be funny and be smart and whatever. because your comedy was was smart and it. was funny and it was. I was like what's he and I didn't really. understand. the difference between the stage and the. off stage kind of person really well I.

think it's interesting because yeah it's. funny when I've talked to you sometimes. I'm like dang do I need to know a lot. about music or can I just share about. music how I think and feel about it and. that yeah I don't know that much do I. have to pretend like I know all of the. names of every one of your songs like. right I think that happens a lot of. times when you meet somebody of a. certain thing right certain genre yes. you do you do that's so interesting yeah. yeah yeah. um so you know I'll be quizzing you on.

that later if you know when you're ready. okay yeah there's a car I mean I do have. some I do have some favors man it's. funny you say that you're not that like. um would you say that words weren't very. per like I uh articulate yeah well I. don't I'm not saying I'm not in any way. articulate I'm just saying that as a. general rule right musicians like I had. to find my words really you know it was. a process like I I think you if you'd. met me maybe. sort of seven or eight years ago I.

probably would have. well I probably wouldn't have sustained. a friendship for a start because I think. I would have been intimidated or not. been socially kind of comfortable enough. because especially not to do this I mean. there's no way how to come in here. this would have been way too much wow. yeah that's incredible man that's right. we've talked about a lot of this kind of. stuff this is where a lot of our. friendship kind of started was talking. about that sort of thing yeah yeah I. always admired how open you are about. you know mental health and like all this. other stuff and and your own kind of. shortcomings or your own kind of uh.

things you don't know yeah you know. that's always been amazing to me and I. think that's probably. to me is like a huge strength of yours. is is is being the voice of people who. who are afraid to ask questions. because they're worried that they're. going to be you know made fun of or uh. in some way kind of mocked because. you know because there are a lot of. things. I mean it's hard to do sometimes talking.

about the question especially when you. feel like the world is so fast and it. knows more than you yeah you know. especially these days if you feel like. you're sometimes from a certain area or. from a certain Financial class I would. be scared I remember when I was young to. ask questions in like a nice person's. house right like if it was a dump I was. like I'll just you know I know where you. are with that yeah dude I'm just out you. know I'm Alex trebeking in there but if. it was a nice place I'm like oh I should. be asking nothing yeah right now like.

what does the little spoon do you know. stuff like that yeah but yeah it was. just it's interesting how like different. little Comfort worlds that people find. and and where you're okay to communicate. and uh yeah yeah it's scary. communication is kind of interesting I. mean it's. I mean obviously it's interesting that's. kind of a silly thing to say but no but. you do it really well and I think you. you managed to I mean I don't know how. you sit and talk like on your solo shows. oh it's miserable sometimes it must I.

mean it must get hard sometimes because. I don't know how you. sustain that level of talking for that. long it's like an improvisation I I. sometimes. I mean I was thinking about it yesterday. thinking about things that we have in. common because I didn't because um. I I just. there's some like I know we have some. kind of like friend chemistry that I. sort of like but as but as on top of. that I think we have. a kind of there's some similarity.

between the way you think and the way I. think when it comes to music and I think. sometimes when I when I wet when I see. the way you're reaching for words. it's like um. I find when I'm reaching for chords. sometimes. I have to find. a kind of abstract chord or like some. kind well. maybe in our new you know like a. an unusual chord or.

whatever to to to nail the emotion I'm. looking for right and it's because the. standard ones won't won't do the. standard ones don't. current you know don't quite scratch the. itch of what I'm trying to think yeah. the roygbiv it doesn't have enough color. it's not though yes you want to you're. very specific yeah and it's like looking. for that very specific Hue and. you seem to do the same thing with words. it's like when. you're looking for like a word to.

describe it I don't know it was like a. dog it's like a floor Bearer I can't. remember you just have this like you. know you want to get specific because. you want them to know exactly what you. feel yeah and it's like oh what you mean. yeah and so you know the the basic. language. doesn't always cut it it's interesting. man you know you have that what is it. lyric you have that lyric I could drink. a case of you and not follow oh well. that's a journey Metro lyrics which is. it oh it is there's an even better lyric. than I could ever write yeah no no it's.

a cover but it's. it is the one of the best songs ever. written so I didn't know that yeah. that's so good man thanks man yeah yeah. yeah thank you thank you uh on behalf of. Jenny Mitchell yeah yeah. um what is something that I love uh oh. the. I gave you. punch lines oh yes man that's a good one. that one really really resonated with uh. I gave them punch lines they gave me. warning signs yeah.

that reminds you so much of your music. to me matters I mean we'll get into your. music so much of like that is my song. yes it is. we were the way we uh oh uh say what you. will say what you will yeah yeah god. dude yeah thanks man appreciate it yeah. I gave you punch lines you gave me. warning signs that was like my whole. I felt like that was my whole childhood. man well I was like you know I would all. I had was like the way to make people.

feel something was through laughter or. something it was so like. um. but everything felt like a warning it. was like the whole world felt like. everything felt like warning sounds like. any reaction people would give to me. I had to monitor every moment of it. because I was always scared when it. would go from. everything was okay to everything was. not okay yeah and man it was it's uh. yeah you have such a way it's like. watching. somebody well first of all you're like a.

sound monkey like you like you're like. oh you're listening to your music and. you're like oh that's a sound okay I. didn't know that was a sound like you're. like I can almost see this like. chimpanzee like swinging out into the. unknown and then being like this is a. sound yeah yeah yeah it's um well you're. doing that with what you do that with. words it's funny and and maybe that's. some of what it is you know well I think. some of it in in like what you described. earlier like just then. um.

the the. kind of. exploration it's like. when. you in order to emotionally regulate. yourself. you've kind of got to find. uh. words or comedic moments or. chords in my case to to just make it. feel better. and. that happens once and it feels a little. bit better and you're like okay.

you subconsciously twig that that's now. gonna be your hmm you know and. but yeah so this is a place to go this. is a chord I can use this is a nice. landing spot yeah or a foothold it's. almost like you're doing some mountain. climbing like this is a a grip exactly. and it's not it's like like I I remember. like when I was a when I was a kid there. was this one standout I mean it's a. small moment but I remember it very. vividly which is where my friend was um.

really. he's one of my best friends but you know. I didn't have many friends I have like. one friend at a time it was like you. know like a shop it was like one in one. out kind of thing. and. I just. had this day where he he just. relentlessly took the piss out of me. right and he was just being so cruel to. me because and I think that when I was. when somebody was my only friend I think. they they felt they knew they could do. that right. so. just you know when I was much younger. like.

eight or nine or something anyway so. this kid is is uh I'm just like oh I'm. just feeling terrible. and I go into the other room. and I start playing piano. just I just get up and I just go and. start playing piano. he comes in and uh. and just mocks me even harder for coming. over to play the piano to like to like. oh is this your sad song that you're. writing because.

and I remember thinking at the time yeah. it is the sad song I'm writing because. you're taking the piss out of me it is. the sad song. and. that just that just is and always was. my uh my way of uh you know it's like if. I became like a pressure cooker yeah. emotionally then the only thing I had. the only Outlet music was music it was. the only way I could get it out or if. you were like even like a rice cooker.

like that was your rice that was my rice. yeah yeah that's cool man yes I learned. to make you know like a like a sous chef. like a Japanese sous chef I learned to. make the rice so many times. um you know day in day out that. eventually I became a a um. a restaurateur yeah like a I was going. to say Michelin star but that would be. that would that would be high you know. highly self-aggrandizing I think that's. easy to say man I think a master of of.

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I don't want to judge your music you. know I'm a kind of an emo kind of guy. like in a lot of ways I sometimes yeah. you're here's your songs it's almost. like. I feel like the length of your song is. like the length that takes a tear to go. from like an eye to a cheek sometimes in. a strange like some songs some of them. are more valid you know. um some I feel like it's like somebody. like hitchhiking just through like a. bunch of emotions kind of. um yeah they're all they're very.

they're like highly emotional things. also yeah that's why it seems so. specific to me which you do it's like. God this seems like it's not like. somebody laid some cement it's like each. thing here is like a somebody put a step. here right and this one is a certain. depth from the soil and it's a certain. softness to it of the stone or whatever. it is it seems very intentional yes yeah. actually I think there's there's two. there's good and bad that can come from.

being so intentional and being perceived. to be so intentional right so. sometimes it's not intentional. and it just seems like it is because I'm. improvising and and I was just feeling a. certain way and it just came out like. that and then I just edited it and just. like put it in the song right and so in. moments like that. I think. when the perception becomes okay you're.

super intentional and you're and you're. always in control. ultimately it leads to a place where you. have to keep up a a keep up that image. but but B people don't question you. you know people will just like. assume that you know what you're doing. and when you're working with people. they're just like oh I'm sure he knows. what he's doing I'm sure that's fine I'm. sure that's good and they just Gaslight.

themselves. because it might just be [ __ ] it might. just be not a good melody or not a good. lyric or whatever oh so it can almost. corner you in a way yeah definitely. oh that's interesting yeah people don't. tend to and it's Brave you to notice. that and just say that like yeah. sometimes my own ability or how people. perceive some of my ability yeah and. then Corner me into a place where I'm. not getting probably Earnest feedback. yeah on if something is quality enough. for the situation or not yeah and also.

people because they're not as advanced. at exactly the thing you do they might. be as advanced as something else right. but because they're not as advanced as. exactly the thing you do and the exact. way that you came up. build you know doing that up the. mountain. um. you. you're not speaking the same like you. know that they don't they don't feel. that they have the knowledge to confront. you on the idea that's not good.

sometimes ah I could see that too. especially well that's one thing I was. going to say about when I met you since. you're taller and British or sound. British anyway I'm thinking oh man you. seem older. then you are and not saying you're not a. per a great age but when I first met you. I'm I'm 34. just are you really just. turned 34 yeah well congratulations. thank you very much but I thought that. you were a lot it just it gives you a. wiseness I think to people that maybe.

you don't even know I think so that. probably adds into the same thing where. it's like oh man this guy's a dang. wizard you know. do you think there's um for an American. person anyway I'd be like yeah no I I. don't know I I think I think people have. a you know do you believe in old souls. and young souls and yeah stuff like that. I don't know how much I mean it's. obviously not something I could prove. but I think these these kind of um. phrases mean something hmm.

uh right I don't know if they always. mean exactly what you know the literal. sense of like you know someone having. been here many times or whatever but. whatever people trying to say when they. say that right. I do identify with that I've always felt. like a little haunted it doesn't yeah it. doesn't mean that I'm it doesn't mean. that I'm like. in any way a wizard or in any way like. no because I think actually if anything. I'm in theory I I feel kind of uh.

insufficient in a lot of ways it's it's. your desk clerk at that point you're. running you're running a hotel for souls. for Souls yeah right you know like. you're you're at a certain point yeah. sorry to step on you there no no no but. I think that's kind of what if like if. it feels like some people it feels like. it's their first time through the Galaxy. you know you meet him it's like oh this. is a baby Soul it feels like and it's. not even judging that heaven if you feel. like you or resonate with being an old.

soul that it makes you better or. anything no it doesn't it just makes you. you're a damn you know you can be more. cynical you can be more sort of jaded. you can be yeah you can feel kind of um. too much you can feel too much you can. yeah easily overwhelmed you can feel. maybe I mean and these these obviously. these character traits don't aren't just. applied to the old soul but they can be. applied to any like a couple of. different character or. personality types and and like there's. also all sorts of psychological analyzes.

and assessments that you could put on. this but. uh I think. I feel sometimes I mean my job. extends Beyond Purdue I mean I'm a. producer but I feel a lot of the time. like a therapist and and like a. therapist a lot of therapists are very. [ __ ] up. they're not they're not people who you. should necessarily take. um you know all of your uh life lessons. from it that or or indeed they might not.

be practicing exactly. what they preach but you know they're. also people who've who've uh who've got. an overwhelming sense of. uh empathy and probably quite easy to. overwhelm themselves and and they've. learned to like learn to vocalize what. it is that they're feeling so that other. people can can vocalize what they're. feeling. yeah you know I think I realized and. obviously I haven't gone to school to be. a therapist no I'm nothing like a.

therapist in any way I don't know man I. think that but your music might be right. right and that's okay and that's that's. what's interesting sometimes about. having any sort of gift in the world I. believe everybody has some gift it could. be some people's smile might be their. song it's like man they just smile at. you and it is like it can lift you up. just as much as hearing like you know. um some Michael McDonald or something. you know or some uh trying to think of. something good yeah or Nelly or. something but um.

how do you draw the line between Michael. McDonald and Nelly how did that I was. just trying to get some diversity yeah. trying to get that I think I was trying. to get diversity right and now. therapeutic guys or Nelly was the last. time I think that a lot of white people. felt like they could really dance. honestly that's interesting when he came. out with Country Grammar and this is. almost a little bit before your time but. when he came I remember it yeah God I. remember feeling like. remember thinking this is an amazing. song and I still can't dance yeah.

I mean it was we it was just our last. hurray I feel like with the legs you. know it was the last Caucasian hurray. anything so when things were still. moving below the hips yeah right yeah. um so how how did you so in terms of. like your. because I want to know more about. the connection between your emotional. your upbringing and comedy and why.

why you sort of went into it like what. what were their moments where. you got a laugh. from saying something in it in a certain. way and and it helped the situation it. helped like your relationship with. someone or it stopped a situation from. going but badly or whatever it became. like almost like a you know. um. diplomatic kind of tool or whatever.

I think um. you know I think. I didn't have a lot of feelings as a kid. I didn't have a lot of like comfortable. feelings probably you know there wasn't. a lot of comfort in our home and there. was a lot of question marks and not a. lot of information. right so there wasn't a lot of. information. um there was a lot of. attention to uh learning you know my mom. made sure that we were learning.

um like. um reading and yeah reading doing our. homework you know uh. but always reading and my mother was an. English major. um that's interesting so she you know. knew words and she would use big words. and she would use words that they would. try to kick out of our town you know I. remember they would come with torches. when she'd use certain words they'd. never seen it you know they'd be like. she's a witch. and my dad would be like I wish she was.

you know and so it was like you know my. mom really probably had one of the best. vocabularies in our town right um but I. didn't have much affection for my mother. and that's okay she didn't have a lot to. give and um so I think I probably. somewhere in my head thought that well. if I have War if I'm using words maybe. she'll see me you know or if I'm well if. and when once I started to make people. laugh I'm like oh man they. you can make somebody. I just never knew if I was if I was okay.

to my mother I never knew if I was. approved of by her so once she withheld. the approval yeah and I don't even know. if she knew she was she didn't know she. was doing no people sometimes don't yeah. she just had like this kind of emotional. kind of autism where she didn't. understand that that was necessary. and so I think once I saw somebody laugh. it was like oh. it was like I'm okay for a minute got it. you know and so then I think that just. became an addiction that was beyond. I didn't have a choice at that point but.

yeah you're just compelled to do it it. was yeah because I you have to I think. feel okay at certain points as a human. absolutely yeah and also all of it is a. survival thing I mean it's like anything. that you had to do. even the things that you're ashamed of. um yeah ultimately have to be chalked up. to. something that got you by something that. kind of helped you survive. um yeah I'm grateful that our Arts at. least aren't like looked down upon very.

much by Society because a lot of people. they end up into. the dark arts or things that are you. know more taboo and it's just their. survival methods you know I mean I look. at like strippers and you know some sex. workers and stuff like that sometimes. like oh they're just trying to you know. Express themselves or something oh yeah. I mean I I also it's just. it's just a job isn't it and I guess I. guess the. I'm not overly educated on the.

complexities of of sex work but I I'd. say. I would do a little I probably would. yeah. yeah ultimately it's if it came down to. it to feed your family go do what you. gotta do. um I mean I I felt like I was compelled. to do music did you well it sounds like. it even from that story of like you know. you're like I'm gonna go in the other. room here my buddy's being a real prick.

and I'm gonna express myself yeah yeah. so yeah I think it's just interesting. how our expression comes out like yeah I. mean it was maybe it was the. I want I wonder if it's written it's. kind of written. the writings on the wall from the moment. you kind of oh that is it Destiny or is. it like well it's like I don't really. believe in people being naturally. talented particularly I don't really. believe in kind of genetic I mean maybe. predisposition. um or like something inherited kind of.

Consciousness but I don't really believe. in people being like born with a gift. and [ __ ] like that so do you believe. that music like so you were very. inclined especially I don't know all the. instruments you play James I've got to. Pat this down because it so easily looks. like I've got an erection when in this. thing it kind of like. I'm having a good time. [Laughter]. sell some tickets bro raise that man.

I could do a Revival in there man it's. good. um is piano like your main instrument is. that okay to say or no. uh yeah you play other instruments no no. it is my management yeah right because. when I see you on stage you're at the. keyboard of the piano yeah yeah okay. yeah. um yeah do you feel like. that yeah that art say art is just like. an energy and it's gonna come out of. people. it's gonna find its way out into the.

world because it's just the way the. whole world is kind of put together that. the energy has to come out and so. it finds its way through you so you can. harness it or adjust to it but that it's. or you can choose to use it or not maybe. if you never even get to the Keys and it. just kind of hits a cul-de-sac inside of. you. yeah yeah is that kind of more what you. feel like it's just that's a nice way of. putting it I think um.

I sometimes feel sorry for. musicians and and artists and stuff. rather than kind of uh. mythologize them or kind of. um. put them on a pedestal because. in order for you to have arrived at that. point where you need music as your your. expression. something had to happen you know and. something had to make you boil over so. much that there was only one way that. was going to be you know and it just.

happened to be this. um. but it's not necessarily the most. comfortable life not to say it's the. worst life I mean I've I'm I feel super. privileged to do what I do and. I'm uh. I'm very lucky. um but I'm also one of the lucky ones. you know there's. hun millions of musicians who are not. rewarded in in the same way for. for basically expressing a lot of pain.

and. it's. not an efficient method of doing it. either like I don't really feel that. much better after I make a song. if I'm depressed I'm just depressed if. I'm anxious I'm just anxious if I'm. sad I'm just sad. you know making a song isn't going to. fix that and I had to find other ways. eventually but it felt like if we were. to use the extend the pressure pressure.

cooker analogy it's like. through ART. I was basically just like laying a. little steam out every now and again but. I was never just like turning it off you. know it's like. I wanted to turn it off. I wanted to stop the endless. swell of pain and anxiety and depression. and stem the flow and and I had to find. other ways to do that and once I did. that I was able to look at music a bit.

more objectively and it didn't have to. it didn't have to prove everything it. didn't have to be everything all at once. there was less pressure on the songs I I. didn't have to like be the biggest. artist I didn't have to like prove. myself to the people the kids at school. I didn't have to prove myself to even. myself you know that or less anyway I. mean there's always going to be a bit of. all of those things yeah um but there's. less pressure on the art. well it's fascinating yeah because when.

you identify with it so much which is. what happens sometimes as you get. successful it's like this is it this is. all you not this is all you are but. there's. you've become so like in tandem with it. that everything you do every if you put. out one wrong thing yeah you become so. close to your thing like. it's not just fluid anymore yeah it. feels like uh they're attached on you. like sloths kind of and you can't get. them off or you're afraid to let them.

just kind of just leave them on the path. of the forest you know. um. yeah it's interesting because some of. your music I I feel like I'm like Eeyore. like Eeyore that showed up at a rave. kind of you know. uh. which is kind of perfect for me I can. totally see why like that's that is who. I am I like okay good thank you for for. noticing me. thank you for letting me judge you man. because I'm not winning the pig.

yeah and I'm not Christopher Robin. no even though but that's the that's the. reason you might be I think you might be. Christopher I don't know maybe I gotta. look at some of this you might be. winning the Poo actually. I think I'm crossed up I think they had. a child yeah it could have been I mean. who knows they could have been they. walked off into the sunset and after. that we don't really know we're missing. a few chapters yeah yeah AAA Milne let. us down. um what was it so was there a kind of a. moment because you and I have talked.

about this it's I forget some of the. things you and I have talked about. because you and I our friendship has. just kind of had a Hiatus through the. pandemic right yeah yeah and um because. I stayed in California already where I. wasn't allowed out my house yeah you. moved to was it Nashville Tennessee yeah. where people are just yeah we're out of. here yeah people are sneezing down each. other's orifices you know yeah just. testing the theory yeah you know yeah. yeah everybody has hep C now but nobody. else yeah they got everything else.

um but yeah was it because I remember. there was I think I remember there was a. time where you kind of were. like do you and I talked about different. modalities for relieving like. um whether it be depression or. whatever's going on in our lives yeah. yeah did you have a time where you kind. of came to a head with some of that sort. of stuff I did during the pandemic oh. yeah you tried to get me on the EMDR yes. I did I uh I was evangelizing EMDR and I. even went I even went a few times yeah. and I see a woman now with EMD that's. amazing yeah yeah and I mean I remember. you saying it helped and and but.

initially the thing was with the MDR is. that you you don't really. and you don't go and then afterwards you. like. necessarily feel what's happened it has. this very strange slightly sci-fi effect. on you where you don't even remember. feeling the way you felt when you went. in. um. tiny bit Men in Black. uh so a lot of people kind of come out. of it and going you know.

oh yeah I don't really think anything. happened but then they stopped the. pattern they've been in yeah and they. don't even realize and they're just like. oh I didn't um you know I didn't. endlessly turn on and off the the hob. and like check to see if it was still on. or whatever the OCD thing is or like. they didn't they don't that pattern just. isn't manifesting anymore because the. trauma that leads to it has been. disconnected uh from feeling it yeah it. is kind of Black Mirror huh it's a kind.

of go behind the scenes and adjust a. cable or something and then the next. time like your Christmas tree lights. blink they don't blink in that weird way. that was uncomfortable or something yeah. exactly yeah there's behind the bookcase. in yeah Interstellar yeah it's kind of. behind the bookcase yeah. um the are there other modalities and. stuff that you've tried. um I did mushrooms yeah which was quite. very helpful for me actually I mean I I. go into a really bad depression when I. take mushrooms because.

um I think I'm allergic to them or. something and it just yeah just kind of. I go get really depressed for a couple. days. um afterwards or not during afterwards. yeah no during is amazing I love I love. them but I've only done them a few times. but every time I've done them. something's changed in my life like. majorly changed. um I've either given up an addiction. or I've. you know for example I I came off. Twitter uh or stopped kind of really.

using it. um because. I'm kind of checking it all the time and. like being quite engaged in it and. invested in in kind of what how I was. doing you know how other people's. opinions and and even other people's. opinions of what I was saying and you. know. very overwhelming place for an artist to. someone who's easily overwhelmed but. also I think it's an overwhelming place. for a lot of people. um and maybe they're not admitting it uh.

but uh and stressful yeah um it feels. stressful even hearing you say it yeah. and and um. and it was kind of at a point where a. lot of conversations were reaching a. kind of fever pitch. um politically and. I just felt trepidatious about even. being involved because I felt like all. of my real life conversations were. really compassionate and empathetic and. loving.

even if we didn't agree on something. you know like ours like we don't always. agree on everything but we we just. you know we approach each conversation. we love and respect so you know but on. Twitter it was like the opposite of that. it felt like if you didn't have the. right opinion for the for the group you. know you you were. you you're sort of out of the group or. whatever whichever group that is right. and I just. felt really over time really really. stressed about that Dynamic and and um.

took mushrooms one day uh we were sort. of on a like a road trip. and uh we were sitting by a pool. and. I think this was the first time I. actually ever did them. was during the pandemic. um. and. I remember saying to my friend I'm not. really sure these are doing anything. um yeah totally sneaky right.

and then he goes well you you've been. taking a photo you've been taking. photographs of that same flower for the. last two hours. and I noticed and I look down at my. phone and there was like 400 I was like. scrolling through this 400 photographs. of this flower is really beautiful. flower but. um in hindsight probably. the mushrooms had something to do with. that. so um I so I just. looked down at my phone open Twitter and. it just looked like a Vortex oh yeah.

there was a very very strange. like it was like fragmenting at the. edges you know like like an actual. Vortex. um and it looked like. extremely Dark Energy it's hard to. describe it. um. in sober wording but it was. you know at the time I would would have. just kind of felt this horrible. um kind of anxiety looking at it.

and I just there and then deleted the. app. and just put the phone down and just got. on with my day and I didn't reinstall it. um. and there were a couple of other things. I did as well I did it with Instagram I. did it with like field because I just. noticed that the phone and actually the. phone itself was like just looked like. it was like charged with horrible like. nebulous like dark energy like felt like. a black hole basically yeah and it felt. like it was like drawing me towards it.

but not in a good way like in a way that. um made me feel like I was dying so I. just thought no I'm that's telling me. something this is right you know I also. noticed the way my dog reacts to my. phone. he. very often pours it away but also just. just won't engage with it he'll only. engage with me and if I'm engaging with. it then he'll he'll just kind of. walk off wow so it's almost like here's. a piece of life. telling you hey man that's not life yes.

yeah that's what's very well put that's. what's something about mushrooms man. you'll give you a little clue like I did. this Ayahuasca treatment and I came home. right and I cut on like Dateline or some. like murder show or something oh wow and. yeah it's probably is that is that. advised was that did your Shaman tell. you to do that. I would say unadvised right so I'd say I. was working you know I was going off. script. um do you have another water Tunes act.

do you mind please brother. um no thank you so I was going off. script but I turned it on and it was. everything in me was like don't you see. how bad this is someone died and you're. sitting here watching it as like a wow. and it wasn't it was it wasn't a. dateline episode it was like a um some. murder like invest yeah yeah but. something that was like really dark so. it kind of uh exposes the. thank you mate yeah yeah exposure. sometimes like it's just a level of. truth that I think the addictiveness of.

modern day society that we're not able. to feel anymore and it almost feels like. something that you would have felt like. a long time ago in like your ancestral. like right if you if you lived in a in a. more sort of primitive like back in the. day like more you know no technology no. and. and it's it's as if somebody handed to. you then yeah. and goes and goes. um. you know when you wake up you're going.

to check this. and you're going to scroll through. all the things that are happening way. outside of your group. um you're gonna. you're gonna check for the opinions of. others. and they're going to tell you how you're. going to feel today and you're going to. watch a bunch of videos and you're going. to watch watch a bunch of people have. sex. and you're gonna watch and you're gonna. like. play games on here and they're not here. they're not in front of you with all. these other people they're not.

interactions with real people you're. going to play games on this thing. um and most of your interaction it you. know you're you're gonna you're gonna. look at this for at least 12 hours a day. and when you set this down you're gonna. feel like there's nothing of you when. you set it down you're going to be. unsatisfied with what the the world is. like oh because this thing is going to. stimulate you so much. if somebody told you that when you had. no technology and you'd never seen.

anything like that before you would tell. them to [ __ ] off. immediately yeah get away from me with. that [ __ ] dark magic I don't want to. ever see you again. this show and episode is sponsored by. betterhelp. we are grateful for them. better help if you've had uh you know if. you've had problems like I've had. organizing your brain keeping your. thoughts on track. getting into the mechanics of your brain.

sometimes you can't get under your own. hood that's the tough part you don't. know the right questions to ask yourself. and you can't do it alone that's a thing. you can't do it alone. better help can help. working with a therapist. they will help you get closer to the. best version of you. if you're thinking of giving therapy a. try better help is a great option it's. convenient flexible affordable and it's. entirely online.

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h-e-l-p.com slash t-h-e-o betterhelp.com. Theo I love how even your meanness is. pretty kind I don't want to ever see. yeah I can you kill them you might kill. them yeah you might kill them you might. kill them and throw this thing away so. that no other human ever had to. experience this yeah and. just I mean it goes on you know all your. friends all your friendships are going.

to be kind of regulated through this. thing well we don't have a voice anymore. it's like the talent if you get up and. just stand up on a soapbox now and speak. you look like inside you're looking like. insane right if you if you were to yes. that's the crazy part too so it's like. we're all there's no if I go up and just. said like one of the more mundane tweets. that I've ever sent you know uh hoping. that a lot of people would be like yeah. me too yeah like yeah and then it would. just like spin into virality.

and you just set it in the street on a. on a soapbox or you just got up and said. it people be like. you're right yeah go home this guy's not. doing good yeah he's he's saying. he's saying strange relatable mundane. things. but I'm on my way to work and I need to. go and get a coffee you know it's not. somebody like you queer we can take that. out. but somebody would yell something like.

that I'd be like maybe but you know. but also but also porridge can be made. with milk and also water. yeah don't you know spread the news yeah. it's amazing with oat milk. um. you know you've you're some of your. journey with music as an outsider you. know I didn't know even much about your. genre music until I met you and I. remember. my girlfriend at the time Megan I think. it was we came to see you perform at a. church over in.

in the Presbyterian church or was it um. in downtown was that that wasn't the. will tournament it might be the. Presbyterian Church. he was like a cool night time was it. actually a church I think it was. yeah then it was Presbyterian I think. because it was like some special show. you were doing or something it was. really amazing. um when I got into more music I listened. like in the beginning you had a lot of. or I don't know the total beginning but. early on some of the stuff you released. like these EPS that had like it was just.

a lot of Beats and sounds and yeah you. know kind of wanderings and less like. lead vocals more more kind of abstract. like collages of [ __ ] yeah yeah was it. scary to then put your voice out there. did you always know you were going to. because your voice is like a big thing. especially for someone who comes from a. place of like you know uncertainty or. shyness or you know some of the Realms. that we've talked about like emotionally. like was that scary to put your voice. out. or did it seem like just the next. instrument it was I mean there was a lot.

of there was a lot of toxic masculinity. floating around especially that time but. like. I remember when the first like one of my. earliest memories. was. um. I was upstairs in my parents house. and I was like 12 or 13 or something and. I was playing what I used to do one of. the ways I learned to trade I'd train my. ear which I didn't realize I was doing. but I just enjoyed doing it.

was I'd play to records so I'd put a CD. on. and I sit at my like. keyboard like you know cheap just piano. keyboard thing like electronic kind of. thing think uh Ross from friends you. know doing the thing uh pressing the. little drum thing and just playing yeah. and then playing to the CD. and learning all the like vocal runs and. like learning how to play the chords and. like Stevie Wonder and like Mariah Carey.

and all these people. and I was playing at the time I was. playing with the Whitney Houston song. uh I can't remember the name of the song. very famous song I Will Always Love You. that no no it was it was. I believe the children of the future. [Music]. yeah you still remember that it looks. amazing yeah so that one.

I loved that song and I was playing it. and the chords are amazing they're like. very you know they're a tiny bit cheesy. it's a bit of a Cheesy song but it's. like one of the best ever slightly. cheesy songs pop songs and so anyway I'm. and. I'm singing at the top of my lungs and. the windows open. and my I've got a couple of friends who. live four doors down right I'm playing.

very loud I didn't realize the window. was open opening the windows it's your. first song on the radio basically. basically yeah and it's it's me. it's me broadcasting this yes extremely. kind of I'd say at that point you know. being a being a young man uh very Billy. Elliott type moment very very yeah like. very like I'd say. in terms of our understanding of. masculinity at the time not the most.

masculine thing I could be doing right. right and. I remember at the time one of them. shouting some homophobic slur from Three. Doors Down. and and just being like you sound like. probably where you know and and it. really like crushed me at the time. because. I didn't see music through a lens of. like sexuality or. I didn't see the problem in being gay or. being bi or being anything like it I.

just was like but I did understand that. there was a social. kind of rejection of being gay and. social you know all that. and. I just kind of. froze and like so I started to associate. music and singing with something. shameful and feminine and like all these. things that like were not. not accepted it went from like 100 meter. dash to like just like hurdles now again. you're like now these these different.

things I have to make sure that they. check enough of these things yeah like. don't be too like don't be too don't. express yourself too much because then. you're this and don't and so you know I. sort of kept and it wasn't just that but. there was a multiple reasons why. and they really showed anyone that I. sang I would go to the practice rooms uh. at school. every day and I was you know very often. like extremely sad and depressed and. kind of going in there and just playing. and [ __ ] crying and like being you.

know so British very British is that. British extreme well no the British. thing to do is to is to um. is to not find an outlet at all and then. just abuse somebody. yeah yeah. physically or emotionally or or indeed. you know in any other way just just find. someone to to kind of. um or not even just someone but everyone. yeah just like make other people.

uh experience the pain that you're. supposed to process wow so uh I actually. found a way I found an outlet. so I didn't have to like be a [ __ ] to. everyone else basically and I um. found myself. just keeping it a secret. um. that you had this Talent yeah like or. that you were excited to sing yeah that. I could sing and and that I could sing. you know by that point I was a good.

singer I was by the time I've been. singing since I was. two yeah I mean you had some notes where. I'm checking my watch I'm like is this. note gonna end. my gosh it's like waiting for a long. train to pass I feel like there's one of. those Americans. Jesus come God this guy's just the. Amtrak this guy's riding this the B-flat. to north. um yeah so so that's you know like I. ended up to cut a long story short uh.

eventually I started a little bit. singing in like school like assemblies. and [ __ ] but I generally just kept it. quiet and then when I was making music I. I think I carried over that. that uh shame and I just you know the. dance music scene was super male. dominated. um and a lot of the. discussion around it is like it's very. uh it was very toxically masculine at. the time.

and so. when I started to sing there were a lot. of comments a bit similar to what the. guy had shouted at me yeah Three Doors. Down you know like just very like and. but they did they couldn't say like. because you know things had moved on and. and they were adults and they were they. didn't want to like expose themselves of. being homophobic or or whatever but they. were saying stuff that kind of like. they're almost dog whistling like you do. you can't do this because that's this. right right right and and kind of just.

discouraging me from expressing myself. basically it's such a weird pattern of. comfort there there's almost a comfort. in people even doing that yeah it's like. this old thing it's like you know I. would always Envision like there's a. there's some black as kids on a white. guy's lawn and the black guy comes out. and yells the inward but then he goes. inside and he's learning the moonwalk. you know it's like what's the analogy. there I'm trying to trying to put it. together. um. don't you understand what you mean I. think it's that somebody will just say. something that they like has been like.

part of a pattern okay but then they. don't even realize they're going inside. and now they're trying to learn like a. black guy's day they've been practicing. so the white guy saying then what or the. black guy the white guy or the white. guys oh I see sorry so they've their. their culture they're racially kind of. um living a double existence and say. yeah you don't even realize it it's like. because then they're not they're like. they have like hey they're saying. hateful things but ultimately they they. still but they're also learning part of. this culture they're learning like a.

music or a dance or something at the. same time yeah they're they're confused. basically yeah just like some things are. just patterns they're not the best. patterns and you know obviously but some. even hateful things people say are just. like they don't know what else to say. they're ingrained also they can be so. deeply ingrained in people as a kind of. like uh form of expression that they're. not even aware of what the words. what they mean yeah they they lose. there's a thing called semantic. Association where you.

where in the moment you can say a word. so many times that it loses its meaning. completely and you know like. access if you said that like 400 times. or even probably 10 times in a row you. start it just starts to be a word that. has no power whatsoever or any. connotation it just becomes like a. shape of sound we hear that even with. music you hear a song so many times it's. like ah I'm gonna listen to this my. whole road trip and then yeah. at the 30th time you're done you know. yes.

um so is there another Evolution you. start to feel like for your music and. not that you need one or anything but. yeah I think we always need one. yeah yeah yeah I've always wanted but. even by putting your voice in right so. one point it was like okay I'm gonna put. my voice in like yeah something new and. different for me kind of or or put my. voice out there to people attached to my. music. um do you feel like there's just I'm. just trying to think like what would. something else even look like I guess. like a band or oh yeah well you know I.

kind of have a band we've played with. live but I there is um. there's always a. slight. insecurity in me that like I'm not shift. I'm not changing up enough the neck. every phase that we go into like whether. it's a new album or something like that. but. I've tended to find that the. the three-piece band that I play with. is just the best for for me and it's. always kind of been that way uh and.

but singing. is like. it's a form of expression unlike. anything I've ever had yeah and I guess. I just I I just love doing it and it. really like it feels great and it's. it's. just always it's always challenging and. it's like even just staying on the Note. like I I have this voice where. you I can kind of easily fall off the. note and it almost sounds like I'm about. to fall off the note but I but hopefully.

I don't sometimes I just do. um but I don't have the most pure. clear voice you know someone like. Whitney Houston for example is just like. you know super defined. notes. a lot of mine are quite. um. precarious I think um yeah it's a. perfect example kind of a view it's I. don't know man it's really interesting. to know you and hear your music.

um. same with your comedy it's interesting. to see it's kind of fascinating because. it one thing I always. sort of um found fascinating was just. how. you've internalized your childhood and. like the way people like all of your. memories of of all the stories you have. of like where you grew up. are so. Vivid. I can't remember most of the people in. my town.

I mean. I remember some of them but I feel like. we grew up in. pretty different places and and. a lot of the things that you remember. and pick up on of the people that you. grew up around. maybe it's the way you're telling them. but. a lot of [ __ ] up [ __ ] happened. near you oh yeah a lot of pervs I think. we grew up around there a lot of people. perv and out well I think when people. don't have much they play with their. body you know or they're like you know.

you get reduced to kind of real limbic. type of behaviors you know sexual or. perved out or you know and especially. you get out there in a rural areas where. people aren't as educated there's a lot. more kind of. you know I don't want to say incest but. people touching each other a little. early yeah you know in that sort of. behavior I grew up in you know the kind. of the countryside uh or not it's not. the countryside the horse or anything. didn't have a horse okay.

um that's where I draw the line I did. meet a couple yeah. um but I didn't ever ride one and um I. just. I just I'd like. there were characters Where where I was. from definitely. um but I think I don't I guess I don't. draw on them as inspiration yeah because. they probably I probably avoided most. people I think ah whereas I think you. must have just been more like viscerally. attached yeah we were more loose I'll. just seeing stuff you know yeah it's not.

much like supervision or like yeah and I. didn't want to be at home my father was. so old my mother was gone there was like. a clean there was like a um babysitter. around so it was just so like I don't. know it's just just being out and about. you know and then your imagination. becomes so big because you something. needs to have some value to you so your. imagination creates like a lot like I. think it pays attention to a lot of. stuff yeah and it uh attached it sorry.

it wants you to have a bigger world so. your maybe your imagination gets. attached to something else inside of you. and they kind of grow synonymously maybe. yeah because do you feel like when you. go into rooms with people in like. Hollywood or or even just anywhere you. are. do you feel like your imagination is. sort of overgrown in a way that theirs. hasn't do you sometimes feel like uh. like you've still got. the Curiosity of about people and about.

like. things that a lot of people seem to have. like you have quite a um. quite a. like zest for that kind of thing that. like a lot of people don't seem to don't. seem to have like an OBS you know you're. Keen to like observe the the thing that. a lot of people wouldn't have noticed. which you know is it I mean. that in itself is like a is like a a. love of life it's not even though like I. know that you've gone through a lot and.

you've and you've talked about you know. bouts of depression and that's and kind. of not being interested and stuff but. it's like even at your least interested. even at your least engaged with humanity. and everything you still seem so curious. well thanks man I think um. well some of it is I think you have to. you start to develop a sense I need to. know what is very important to this. person that's in front of me right now. because if I need them right or if I. need to let them know I need.

communication from them or I need them. to see me I need to be able to get to. them immediately yeah so maybe there's a. part in you that's like oh you can tell. this about him or you can tell this or. you could you know see by the way that. they turn their neck or fix their hair. or put something in their pocket that. you can Envision this bigger World. behind them that you can either make a. way for it to be funny to them or it can. be really acute to them and it can be. very factual maybe sometimes I think.

it's develop I think you just developed. this sense in case I need someone yeah. um I need everything I can get to show. this person that I may that I can attach. to them like a like a like a um like a. detective. yeah I think it is I think a part of you. kind of become some type of a detective. you know because it's like you're. noticing stuff on people you know it's. like when the in detective shows where. they're like yeah well you know his his. right but his right shoe had a lace. untied yeah which means that recently he. was well it's like he's the kind of.

person who he's he's not no he's he. doesn't have OCD he's not he's you know. he's not paying attention he's he's. loose he can he can't be trusted but you. know it's like they'll draw all these. conclusions from just that one. aspect of someone's uh appearance or. something but you would also do it on. the other side you would know what could. hurt that person right you know right. and you could never used that and then. regretted it oh yeah I think growing up. especially as a defense mechanism you. would use it yeah around our house like. with communicating with my brothers and.

sisters it was the only way we. communicated was uh very. rudely uh making fun there was no like. affection nobody like taught us you got. to be brothers and said there was no. so you just find the thing that you. thought was gonna like cut them down. calm down and just I just just go for it. right when they walk in the door amazing. so it was every I mean it was just I was. surprised that you didn't. um sort of comment on this ridiculous uh. onesie that I'm wearing well we've only.

had one other person that's worn. something like that right Robbie. Williams. yeah but he dressed like a train. conductor bring up Robbie Williams you. look like damn Sling Blade unbelievable. you look like I've got to see this oh. yeah bring him up when he was on here if. you can he was really on this podcast. oh my God. we've basically dressed except I so he's. wearing a we're both wearing dungarees. but I look like I've grown through mine.

like just an extra two foot up because. mine are lower. yeah but he came in I mean he definitely. looked like hey you're late for the. train you know he definitely came in. like he's got conductor on it written on. over yeah totally yeah he had kind of a. sling blade gets a job at Amtrak sort of. vibe going on I'm tracked with a with an. Apple Watch yeah yeah yeah definitely. not going to be late yeah. um but it was fast it was great I.

haven't seen Robbie Williams in a long. time he looks great I think he's the. only other British person oh and Michael. Bisping oh wow so three Brit three. really interesting different British. people that we've had on here yeah. um yeah only three Brits I think so I'm. trying to think of maybe a different one. is that uh Max Moore was from Britain oh. Max Moore he does the um. cryonic freezing where they freeze. people oh god oh is he uh the freezer or. the freezee he is the freezer okay yeah.

he's the freezer he's never been yeah I. think he would he himself is planning on. getting Frozen I think but it was just. interesting to learn he's never done it. himself I would never go to someone. who's never done it before there's only. one way to do it is to die. right it's that thing that's the thing. you have to die and then you go in wait. so he freezes people who are dead yeah. okay they catch them right when they're. about to that's why he's never done it. right yeah I got it so yeah there's only. one entry point right um it seems yeah. it seems Niche yeah yeah yeah.

I guess he's I think that's a good way. to say it yeah. so what was it I'd love to know what his. chat was like is it I mean I could just. go and watch the podcast yeah what's his. name his name is Max Moore so he also is. named like a super villain type of name. m-a-x-m-o-r-e so he really lives this. you know when he looks bring a picture. of him up he looks like he's been damn. Frozen and thawed out 30 times he looks. like they wanted him for dinner and then. change their mind. but um he looks like Bill Burr like I. mean he's just been in like frozen yeah.

there he is oh yeah. wow he looks like he really uh Wim Hoff. and Bilbo had a. heavy on the whim I think Hmm this dude. is uh but very interesting he's the he's. the the post. um he's the posthumist away isn't he. just with the freezing yeah he's doing. the same thing he keeps them all they. just you know they have all the bodies. and that sort of deal real interesting. if if things would win half go wrong.

he's your guy I think and they freeze. him in like this different type of um. what was that stuff called Zach do you. remember. there's a certain type of gas I forget. the name of it. it's quite scary oh yeah scary uh but. his plan his thought is this that if. people like already they can take an. embryo right they can say if your. girlfriend wanted to donate eggs right. and then they froze those eggs which. they do for a lot of women now yeah so. they're basically freezing life.

before so he's saying that they could. freeze you at the end also and then. later when they have the technology if. your DNA is still alive people are. hoping that you know we can get revived. like a mammoth right and he's saying why. not he goes at one point people thought. climbing up a ladder was as high as you. could get to something and then now we. you know we can travel through space so. 100 that's really that is I mean I'm I. imagine that ladder was probably. invented after like uh some of the space. travel we've not space travel but maybe.

oh the hypothesis just maybe the whole. airplane. yeah I didn't think about that I don't. really know which came first dude. imagine when somebody showed up with. that ladder bro damn. I mean one-eyed man in the Kingdom of. the blind oh. people imagine all the checks he got too. all those wrong Honeys yeah. I mean it would feel it feels like a. celebrity I imagined it locally yeah hey. he's coming over he's bringing it yeah. people with all things like on their. shelves or they can't reach people just.

hiding stuff up way higher yeah yeah see. it look at him go just imagining. how his life panned out if he if he um. oh yeah you know the inventor of the. ladder like did he get royalties did he. get no I'm sure that's the dark side of. it then watching people go get stuff and. you know you're not making anything off. it yeah you're wandering around Curry. you know you're cursing at people who. are climbing up it could have been a. better older man I imagine oh I'd watch. that movie I'd watch about I'd watch.

that there's a movie in it I think that. would be a very bad movie it'd be a. yeah a sad movie. I think you and I can make a really good. sad movie probably if you wanted I think. so I imagine yeah combine both of our. early lives yeah. so what what about your life do you was. a lot of your pressure from just like. acceptance or your peers because. obviously if you were kind of shy and. music was your. scapegoating you had these skills that.

were kind of frowned upon which. certainly are in certain areas you know. um it makes you wonder how much. creativity has been really stifled by an. environment you know I think create I. think you know sometimes I thought it. was the singing the fact that you know. kids just didn't really but it's also a. bit like I think it's a bit like being a. footballer right you know when a kid. says I want to be a professional you. know soccer player when I'm older in. England that's like you know NFL here. you know it's this.

almost unattainable dream that some. people do genuinely break through and. make it but it's you know if if a kid. says that's what they want to do you go. well people go like okay but have a. backup plan because probably not gonna. happen yeah and music's a bit like that. where it's like the odds are. you're not gonna be the. you're not going to be a superstar yeah. and you're probably not even going to. make it as high as you want to uh even.

if you do become extremely successful. because it's never enough so ultimately. convincing people to. go into music for a living is is. actually slightly uh kind of a dubious. thing to suggest because it's it's. really hard and most people don't you. know make it uh but also there's also. loads of ways you can be involved in.

music that don't you know um. don't have so much pressure on them and. you can make a living you can make a. great living for music and not be famous. and not be. in the band and not being that you know. you can be working music in so many. different ways. um but they're not the ways that people. focus on when they think of musician or. what they think of like the famous ones. um right right they're not some of the. most are like uh ways that are kind of. they're not the front man.

yeah you think of the front front people. yeah I don't it's just advertising yeah. exactly yeah. um what other things do you think about. with music are there other worlds that. you like to conquer like you've had such. a you know you've gotten to work with. like Travis Scott and uh Beyonce you've. won a Grammy right for best rap. performance yeah was that right yeah I. mean. it was weird I was actually on the way. to the Grammys and they told me in the. car that I'd won one uh for best rap. performance and I so so essentially it's.

on this. so on. so Kendrick Lamar uh-huh. we were supposed to work on he asked me. to work on the Black Panther stuff. the soundtrack and then also there was. this other song he was doing. which I think ended up on the Black. Panther soundtrack as well as King's. dead. and. I sent him this this thing it was going. to be like maybe a verse I don't really. know what it was but I tried something.

on this song he wanted me to try to try. and be on it. anyway they ended up using like a very. very very small. clip of what I'd done it was like a. couple of seconds wow and putting a lot. of effects on it so I I wasn't. particularly audible or it wasn't. necessarily recognizably me now. obviously I don't care like that it. worked really well in the song like they. did a great job. um and I wasn't in any way like. cop about that like I just was like nice. to be included sample me call whatever.

you want to do. but anyway they ended up putting my name. on the song as one of the features. now usually a feature is something like. someone does a verse or like that you. know whatever so anyway I'm this thing. uh and. I'm not. really playing a feature role but I'm my. name's on it. so I win a Grammy they win a Grammy for. the song and because my name's on the. actual song rather than just like buried.

in the credits as a sample you get a. grandma I actually get a Grammy wow so. I've got uh and it says best rap. performance which in insinuates that I. rap which. um you can imagine I don't. dude that's crazy because sometimes you. would think man they put my name on here. I'm not even really on here just kind of. met some people might think this is kind. of messed up they're kind of using me. here but then it's funny how sometimes. things turn around and it's like oh here. you go I mean it's just funny it was. just a whole the whole situation was. funny like I didn't you know because we. ended up doing other songs yeah so it.

was like if if that had been all they'd. used then maybe I could have felt a bit. sad about it but you know you've also. got to think like the man's a legend the. situation is legendary like the song. went was a hit it went multi-platinum. like I was just like cool like amazing. so I'm happy to be involved at all but. the uh yeah just the Grammy is funny I. mean it's currently hidden behind her. big modular synth.

um in my studio. just poking out the back. when you have is your studio now fancier. than your studio when you first started. a little bit but it's still pretty much. the same principle just the keyboard. computer mic uh. it's just like. probably higher end versions of those. things but. quite simple quite small because. sometimes I think like is it hard to get. back to like them because sometimes we. look to our early stuff and like those. are the moments where I really wish I. could just still feel like myself you.

know I even will have all podcast Clips. come up and I'm like oh man that's when. I was just really felt like. in the pocket of who I was as a person. before I started to take any input from. people's perspectives of me or before. stuff got out there and anybody knew who. I was and who I was was a secret to me. yeah and I was my it was like. it was almost like I had. some value for myself that once. everybody knows about it it's almost. like yeah you don't not still have it.

but it's not yours as much anymore no. and you've and you've kind of shown your. it's on your cards showing your cards. basically yeah there's something there's. so there's something so special about. being a surprise yes definitely and and. the underdog and and like all these. things and like there was a time I. imagined where it felt like you were. people were just kind of discovering. your brain and how it works and kind of. going whoa never heard anyone say. anything like this or do anything like. this but. you know.

that's a cool moment. but I think that your career especially. has kind of been littered with really. great moments that couldn't have. happened during that phase. like now you have this incredible fan. base of people who love the way your. brain works and know the way your brain. works and look for and look for. confirmation about how great you are and. and they they're like they're watching. because.

they can count on you. to make them feel that thing that you. make them feel on and then also not just. laugh but also be understood and like. ask questions they're too afraid to ask. and. you know you you get to meet all these. people that they don't get to meet and. they can see it through your lens and. every new person you meet brings. something new out and you so there's. never. um there's never been a point at which. you were more capable of doing that than. right now um.

it feels the other way though right. talking about in what way like do you. ever feel like I want oh God I wish I. could go back to whatever yeah but it's. a it's um but you can't get your brain. back there like your brain like yeah. your reality grows and you can't go back. you know yeah and I think. I think that's a good thing. because what you probably what we you. know I have a similar thing you know I. look back at some of my old music and I.

think like. oh like I was thinking so much simpler. back then or I really knew how to do. this or like I didn't overcomplicate or. you know they were oh yeah like I really. had a fire in my belly for this type of. thing right and. that's cool but that moment really only. lasted for however long it lasted and. then right after that I had to and I was. finding a fire for other things and. I think. obviously we can't revisit moments in.

time but what we can do. is make sure that our head is clear and. that we're on our path because I think. the feeling that we miss. the feeling of being on our path ah it's. not necessarily. the thing we were doing at the time we. were on our part that we were on our. path yeah it's. I am doing. what I'm here to do. but I'm exactly where I should be in the. universe. and.

I am being so I mean being integral. I'm not letting other people's opinions. get to me I'm. pursuing what it is I love. I'm being authentic and I'm. enjoying every moment and I'm and I'm. being present. when you feel those things. the content you put out. is going to be. great.

and it will always be a moment people. look back on because ultimately the. thing that brought you to where you are. now sorry into even into you know public. consciousness. was the fact that you were on that path. uh your every essence your actual. Essence is why you're there right it's. every it's the way you look at the world. it's all the things that led to this. it's your childhood it's the thing the. ways that you learn to. um.

kind of put those experiences into words. or the way you learned to you know find. those. so it's not like getting back to a. certain dock it's just like being. still just. be in the Stream kind of or getting it's. like that in Flow State right it's. finding flow State ah because I always I. always mess up and think it's oh I gotta. get back to this dock but it's like no. that doc was just part of something you. passed by as you were in a comfortable.

healthy self that was part of the. scenery right I believe I mean that's. what I believe anyway this is I'm this. is uh I'm always looking out the window. thinking oh I got to get back to where. the car passed but yeah really I just. have to get back into this comfortably. in the driver's seat wow I think so. I think so yeah and it's such a fight to. try and think how do I get back there. you know and then you're always working. from A Loss because it's impossible it's. the it's the kind of con it's the.

Buddhist concept of uh you know desire. is suffering it's like. if you if you want what you don't. currently. embody then. you are starting from a point of deficit. you don't have the thing so therefore. you know wanting something equals. unhappiness. but. I mean that's I think no it's good it's. cool I have to pee really bad to you I. really do all right let's pee and then.

we'll come back and maybe talk about. some news thanks for releasing me would. you ever uh and you got it gets much. colder in uh Britain huh much colder. yeah wow well actually I say that I mean. America's a big place and. it gets much colder in Minnesota than it. does anywhere in England oh do you ever. feel like you've sold out your country. by moving out of it. interesting. and maybe that's not the best term to. you that's no general term no I mean. it's definitely like a what you know as.

an English person it's definitely like a. concern that you in some way have. insulted your you know your own by. moving out but. no. I never felt like I lived anywhere to be. honest I do feel English I mean all my. cultural reference points are English. and all my comedy uh. comedy references and musicals any. brightness would find roots of you there. you'd be busted there exactly but that's. interesting music music a lot of it was.

American and a lot of like other like. Japanese and uh like European uh music. and you know just you know loads of. different cultural influences that uh. were not English and and also. I think on a spiritual level I just. didn't really resonate with nationality. particularly I didn't really have a. national pride particularly or you know. being English being English is is. complex isn't it and it's you know it. comes with a history that's not.

necessarily. um you know some of it's great and some. of it's quite shameful and yeah some of. it you'd you know I don't understand why. I would. really attach myself to the positive or. the negative of my country's history. when I wasn't part of it. yeah it's interesting you know with. history it's interesting because it's. like people it's easy to look back on. history and be like oh this is you know. this wasn't good you know from present. perspectives and stuff like that and and. you know I'm sure at the time a lot of.

British people were like we're taking. over the world you know it was like a. different like there was probably a. pride that would seem foolish now if. somebody had it you know like oh yeah it. seem you know it's just interesting how. time gives shape to things because all. of our sort of uh reach of power is kind. of just like slowly and now we're just. this little island uh that. has you know a lot of cultural power and. I guess some Financial power but I we're. we're definitely. um. maybe got a tail between our legs a.

little bit uh might might account for. some of the self-deprecation that. happens yeah I think maybe a historical. tale between your legs maybe I'm curious. to see like how does Britain kind of. like. how do they feel okay to show their. still show who they are or find who they. are I think with a little bit of. difficulty actually I think I think like. when you have a national kind of sense. of like something you know when we're. not like we've not always been part of. you know the you know the British Empire. like the colonialism we're we're you.

know I think finding pride has to come. from other obviously other sources. unless you genuinely are proud of that. in which case. I don't know how I can't help you but. but that. this this side of being English like the. comedy the the kind of. um the music the culture. the El cultural output of England is. really amazing I mean I I look back at.

you know a lot of my biggest influences. have also been uh English bands. um it's funny I mean I I didn't actually. really wasn't really um. like a fan of Oasis at the time but I. went to I'm a big Beatles fan. um lots of lots of bands kind of eluded. me until I was a bit older because I. mostly listened to piano based music and. and like Mozart. yeah whether it was classical or I. listened to.

um a lot of like. like Soul classical. [Music]. um Japanese kind of ambient type like. Kabuki or something is that like uh I. don't know what that is but. um I don't either. so but like yeah but but no I mean it. could be a genre though I something I. don't know about but uh yeah I mean. um raiuchi Sakamoto is a good good uh.

example you should listen to me I think. you like him very calming oh really. beautiful oh I could use that right. right yeah you bring him up let's see an. image of them. I want to see a JPEG of this fella. ryuki ryuchi ryuchi oh I love Japanese. people man. I went to Japan one time and. we took a bunch of ice creams with us to. the park and we gave them the kids and. took pictures of them eating them. I mean beautiful man oh God he is he.

looks like my mother a little in the. face not in the hair actually if her if. his hair was a lot longer yeah right. oh yes he looks like a composer doesn't. he I mean. just just a legend I'd love to be. Japanese I think it feels like. everything's just so damn organized. inside of you you know I feel like you. swallow water and it immediately is. ready to be yours it's immediately yeah. efficiently processed oh there's no. doubt there's not all this Milling.

around you know right because I'm going. through the kidneys get out of here with. that BS straight through it's just right. yes that's it yes it seems just like. here we go I mean fit into a shirt size. I feel like if you're Japanese you fit. in there is no like you're in the middle. okay this looks bad on me you know I. feel like you are there's a definite. there's a there's a definable like when. you go to Tokyo for example there's a. definable style. uh identity yeah and I've found that.

some of the most stylish people I've. ever met have been Japanese and some of. the most stylish kind of like ideas in. clothing have been come from I mean this. is actually I mean I'm not to say that. this is I'm not saying I'm sorry I think. this is like. one of the well it is and it is by um. it's by uh. um. yojiyamamoto but uh I wear a lot of.

Japanese clothes because I just think. they. that will I mean. Yamamoto and isimiyaki are like my. favorite designers wow yeah and and you. know going back to when I was a kid yeah. lots of lots of Japanese music and and I. think. I was also fascinated by like. in like Western and Japanese crossovers. um. and. um. just.

like the the intersection between those. sounds and one thing you find is that. every. every culture has its kind of own chord. uh kind of or tonality what's the word. sort of like World of notes that that. sound good together in that you know. style so for example uh. in French music right so like French uh. early classical or whatever it's like. there's a.

there's a there's a world of tone that. kind of. sounds French if you know what you're. listening to for. um. and when you go to the when you go to. the Eurostar which is funny there's. there's a sound that plays it's like. whatever it's like a it's like a thing. and it's the most French. notes oh interesting that have ever been.

written yeah that's funny if you know a. lot about music you're probably able to. hear a lot of different like little just. things in the world and know like Trace. them back yeah it's almost like Latin. like if you know sounds it's almost like. when you learn Latin that's interesting. everything's rooted in something yeah. yeah well you know when you go to. Japan there's a lot of sounds in like. train stations and [ __ ] that they have. and you just go wow this isn't I mean. nothing like anything that I'm I'm used. to and it's kind of amazing. um do you think. um. do you notice any difference between the.

audiences like in different places like. in some of the behavior of them and. stuff like Japan's a really interesting. place to play because uh the a lot of. the audiences are they're like super. respectful. at least for the shows that we've put on. they'll be completely silent during the. music and then erupt in like the loudest. possible Applause and then as soon as. they sense that you're ready to start. the next song complete silence again. like penny drop wow that's crazy does it.

feel crazy it feels or does it feel like. right. you know what it's just different it's. like it feels right there. but it's so. I can understand the logic behind it. and there's a such respect that comes. with that it's like they really really. respect the art and what you're doing. and also we were there you know we're. kind of we don't go there very often so. and you're not you know if you go too.

often I think they probably get bored of. you and you start to seem domestic. almost but they respond especially like. that I think to people who are from out. of town who come in and just kind of um. more of a rarity it's like they just. really want to be present for the. I don't want to miss it yeah we want to. be in the moment yeah maybe they value. the moment a bit more maybe there's some. more of a. value for the moment they have so much. history. well I wonder if it's also we're over in.

America politeness. people over here hey dude quit [ __ ]. the moment it's like we're just people. over here just you know just being. yeah just like the moment's uh it's like. there's millions of moments right. there's so many moments that it's it's. kind of expansive and we've kind of had. that in America like we got unlimited. moments you know exactly but now I think. we're start I think things are starting. to change a little bit and it's like man. we need to Value this moment the economy.

of moments basically it's like we are. now in a moment where we. don't have that many like live. interactive experiences so I would think. that people are starting to go when they. go to comedy shows or whatever they're. probably paying a little bit more you. know they're like feel a bit more. grateful to be there feel a bit more. grateful to like have access to someone. in real life after just spending a. pandemic not being able to see anyone. not being able to go out. apart from in uh Tennessee obviously uh.

but like the fact that someone is stood. in front of you and they've spent their. whole life perfecting this art form and. then you go there and then you just talk. all over it I mean the idea of doing. that after the pandemic seemed. seemed more insane than it did before. because. it would seem ungrateful like well. especially with music I mean you guys. the people are more likely to be able to. party and stuff during your shows and. have fun you know with comedy you're. really people have to kind of sit and. listen for the most part yeah although a.

lot of people shush other people in my. shows oh they do which annoys me oh so I. actually hates it. like or tell me what happens what do you. mean well I'll be playing something and. and I'm in the middle of a song and. someone just goes like you know they'll. say something. crowd-like you know like uh all right. yeah yeah yeah well I love you yeah and. I'm like in my brain I'm like I love you. too but I don't can't say anything. because I'm doing your work. damn I think and. someone else just shot just goes.

I'm just and you're like. what it says the thing is I always feel. like responsible for what they've just. done because I feel like maybe something. I put across maybe it's just an. insecurity but I feel like something I. put across. has made them feel like I wouldn't like. it oh that's interesting you know I. wouldn't like it if someone like. expresses how excited they are or. whatever. oh I feel like oh yeah I want you to. think that they're a warden for me I. feel like some kind of like yeah like.

real like stick up my ass [ __ ] dude I. used to feel that way about girl like. girls I would date and stuff I didn't. want any girl to be like a reflection of. me so it'd be like if they made a. mistake or like I used to date this one. girl who had no like beautiful really. sweet girl she had no sense of like. spatial awareness right she would just. be like you know talking to you and like. she'd bump in a 65 people somehow like. just while she was talking. she's a Dodge him we call them Dodgers. yeah and it's one of those you know like.

the uh cars that bump into each other in. yeah the fairground yeah yeah yeah she. was just like gee like oh my God don't. you know somebody's right behind you she. would always turn and knock over a damn. glass or a top hat off of somebody you. know yeah and it would just like it. drove me what would you do in that it. just me because I didn't want her to be. a reflection of who I it would be like. yeah yeah I didn't want anybody thinking. like oh man it's such a narcissistic.

thing really he he endorses he's like. right cool with this right which makes. him also as as kind of unwieldedly and. uh [ __ ] you know uncool or whatever. yeah not cool in some way ultimately it. comes back to I'm not accepted or like. right but you know the I and I thought I. did exactly the same thing but with with. uh with like social interactions and. like if somebody said the wrong thing. I'd prickle up and like feel really.

tense and like wanna probably it'll come. out with a little comment towards them. at some point you know later or even. during the conversation and I just. couldn't hide it I was so uncomfortable. with somebody else [ __ ] up. because ultimately like the school I. went to was just like people were so. hard on each other if some if someone. [ __ ] up ah right so you just developed. this thing of like no one must say. anything wrong no one could come into. the situation with an energy that. doesn't match everyone else no one can.

and it's like it's such a like. you know uh restrictive. place to live that and I just would. emanate that is that a very British. thing you think or is it just you it is. yeah for sure yeah but also just I think. it's just the way I grew up yeah school. I went to was like that it was a very. the school I went to was like quite. it was it was a school where you had to. take a test to get in but it was free. yeah so so it wasn't like a private. school but it was for kids who excelled.

and did stuff yeah it was for kids who. essentially came from all man as a. background but. had a certain level of of reading. comprehension or whatever it was like. they tested you on multiple different. things. and so it was a good school to be at. because it had like kind of like a. culturally like there was a lot of. different cultures but it was very. intellectual it was all about. intellectual sparring and like. when kids are like. in some ways I'd prefer to have been.

beaten up than psychologically bullied. you know because at least then I could. have had a chance to like hit someone. right and get my anger out. I don't know maybe I'm not really sure. what's worse but when kids are like. super manipulative and like a bit able. to like find your button and like fully. [ __ ] [ __ ] the button and then just. kick and just keep [ __ ] it until. you're just like not able to defend. yourself you know it's like that. that is uh like a different stock and I.

think it puts you in this like. psychological like defense for the rest. of your life oh yeah unless you fix it I. mean I just took [ __ ] ages to like. get rid of that thing of like if someone. says something or if I say the worst. honestly the worst case scenario would. be I say something and then in my mind. like everyone just like turns around. it's just like. why right what the [ __ ] did you just say. you know everything stops can you.

imagine it's like record. and I want to stop the music yeah right. and then. oh and it's awkward that was like my. worst nightmare basically which is funny. is it it's a pretty tame worst nightmare. to have. but it's but it's what happens in that. environment it's a psychological. Thriller yeah which you just shared you. know yes psychological Thriller it's. just not me yeah um yeah I think there's. definitely a like I uh speaking of.

psychological thrillers I got a clip. what you got man a song broke out at a. psych ward. oh my God they all broke out singing in. songs with three this is it now. insurance barely probably even cover. this. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. say. [Music]. they got my vote what party are they. running with this is UN like this is not. living in my house I mean I live with. three people so this is basically our. house oh wow really yeah from all. different rooms oh you do yeah well I. mean yeah I live with uh two of my best.

friends and and Jamila yeah um and we're. just yeah. wow it's a very it's kind of a modern. thing I wonder it's it's interesting how. stuff like like. I wonder if we're getting to this let. place in the world where it's like um. I don't know what I'm trying to say it's. like we need like. Everything feels very vigilante now. it's like the person who's gonna like. it's like the world feels kind of like. the wild west you mean like.

individualistic like people are just. kind of EX just doing. they've kind of gone [ __ ] it I've given. up on society I'm just gonna they might. do it my own way this is the fabric of. American society I feel like quickly. unravel like Betsy Ross is like the. stitching somehow over the past five. years has come out right right and I. don't know if a lot of people are buying. into the this American ideal anymore. interesting I don't know if they're not. I just don't know I'm this is also like. in Los Angeles right now you don't get a. really clear idea I mean.

um but Los Angeles is a very very. unclear picture of of uh or at least. Hollywood yeah Hollywood that's an. extremely unclear picture of like. people's interaction in general because. if so much of it is. incentivized by success or power or fame. uh or in some way somebody's like desire. or drive. to to like. to achieve something.

then obviously things just they're not. they're not as they they're not as pure. as just they're not pure basically. whereas I think most places are not like. that I mean and also. you know that is just speaking for an. industry rather than like Los Angeles as. a whole because Los Angeles as a whole. is multifaceted yeah it's cultural I. forget that a lot too A lot of times. I'll say Los Angeles instead of really I. just mean Hollywood. um. or there are is there like other genres.

and stuff that you see where you would. see yourself going into music is there. anything that feels off limits do you. feel like you're kind of have your. horizons of even possibility brought. broad broadened over time over the years. or anything or do you. uh yeah I mean I start doing. I'm doing a thing like a film bit film. music at the moment. so scoring a film yeah scoring a kind of. visual thing. um I I call it a film but it's not a. kind of um movie in the way that like a.

it's not a. um. you know the master or something or like. a [ __ ] narrative Driven movie it's a. kind of more of a visual thing. um but I'm really excited about it and. I hope that it leads to more of that and. I want to do narrative movies as like. proper me you know that kind of thing. um. weird that my music is. seen as so atmospheric but that I've not. really ever been involved in kind of.

scoring and stuff but you have wanted to. for a while. and um. yeah I feel like yeah your music does. feel like that I feel like I'm. hitchhiking through my own feelings kind. of sometimes a little bit yeah yeah or. I'm hitchhiking through your feelings. yes I feel like somebody's kind of. hitchhiking through my feelings um. and you're picking them up. sometimes or not sometimes I'm just. watching them just being like I don't. know I have to listen more I think it.

just kind of depends on whatever feeling. I'm in at that moment what are the. feelings that you. kind of like when you listen to music. like what when when do you listen to. music and I listen music for one when I. need a pick-me-up I'll listen to certain. songs yeah there's a couple of songs. I'll listen to uh I think when I want to. feel something I'll listen to some other. stuff. um you know I was into comedy when I. need to pick me up I think yeah yeah. because yeah because music is I guess. the thing the thing is with our jobs is. that they they become.

they become jobs oh totally people are. like what are your hobbies I'm like I. don't have my heart but my hobbies. became my job right and now and now it's. neither yeah and it's so now I have to. find out things outside so outside of. music and comedy what what do you like. do you as someone who you I you I mean I. feel like we're so similar in so many. ways. when you look at the world of people. going and experiencing things like you.

know someone's skydiving and somebody's. going surfing like do you ever go past. the sea and watch people surfing and go. God I wish I could just like. be in the world like that the way they. are oh yeah I think that all the time. it's hard for it's for there's something. about it that's tough for me I think. sometimes I did comedy I want to be the. person in the crowd having a good time I. want to be the one laughing you like uh. when uh when yay said uh. oh boy knows Kanye West said um.

I you know my my greatest regret is that. I would never be able to see myself. perform live. um that seems Seems like an egotistical. thing to say but I think in in some ways. it articulates something that a lot of. performers feel. um. not necessarily present at their own. shows. and actually they want to be part more. part of the feeling that everyone else. is having than they are of the feeling. they're having yeah I think forever I.

never went to any comedy or listened. much at all you know I did I think I. didn't want to be influenced and I think. I was just so stuck in my own little. world yeah I didn't want anything to. mess up my world or anything to. influence it you know I just valued my. own little creative space so much really. almost too much it kept me isolated but. yeah I didn't. um I didn't want to have uh any real. influences outside of myself and. sometimes I thought yeah I wish I could. be the person laughing at the show yeah.

if I can't be at least I'll be as the. closest I can to that person will be. someone at least making the humor yeah. totally it's like at least then I'm part. of the equation that's how I felt about. music so how I felt about uh DJing uh as. well because like I always felt really. self-conscious about dancing and like. expressing myself in those ways and also. I'm very tall I'm very you know I mean I. wouldn't say I'm out of before out of. proportion but I but I'm a long fella. but I'm a long person and I and I my. limbs you get shot first in Army exactly.

I'd be you know what's that movie where. they they a wire comes across the ship. and all the people are taller than a. certain height get immediately killed oh. damn ghost ship. um I'd be gone in the first scene and. then also I'm you know like a we call. them daddy long legs but they're like. mayflies or whatever those those little. insects that have like those really long. legs and they just sort of like bumble. around like not. knocking into stuff that's me.

at like a rave or you know something so. I I just I like I'm I always feel. slightly uncomfortable like never I'm. always knocking into people like oh [ __ ]. did I knock it and then you know back to. you know losing myself I can never quite. lose myself in the moment sometimes yeah. I can never lose myself completely man. right I find that some so I uh I find. that DJing is like an amazing way of. like not having to. just not having to contend with any of. that stuff and instead I can just stand.

there and be worshiped like a god no no. I can be just. present the music that everyone just. gets you know gets to do that too yeah. and then I'm then on at least my excuse. can be that well I can't be down there. at the same time right so yeah at least. you have an excuse yeah are they. attention no one can come up to me and. make some small talk that I can't hear. because it's too loud and then I don't. have there's no chance of me like saying.

something dumb to someone. or like not. you know not having a cool social. interaction I can just stand up there. and people can assume that I'm cool. because I'm deep because I'm a DJ. but I'm actually not. and I never have to reveal that. yeah it's like if you're in that space. it kind of keeps you safe from. everything. Fleet bubble yeah it's amazing it's such. a it's such a control and people give. DJs such a you know it's like a. mythology it's like crazy I mean you.

must think even that's crazy 100 and and. they pay them way more than they should. I don't know what's happening DJing is. like the I don't know how that works. it's it's honestly. yeah it feels exorbitant have you been. to festivals and stuff where it's just. like DJ festivals and stuff yeah oh wow. yeah so sometimes do you just DJ and. sometimes you play your music I DJ I. actually love DJ it's like um uh for me. there's so I mean there's such a craft.

to it and it's so deep like it's great a. great DJ is like uh. you know controlling the vibe of the. entire place and like can be in tune. with but genuinely in tune with the. crowd and like it's a it's a real. [Music]. um. you know you can go into a set not. knowing at all what you're going to play. and just and just watch the crowd and. figure out how you're gonna. like you're you're coming on after the. next the DJ before you and you're. watching how they're playing to the.

crowd and you're seeing what works. and then you're going okay what's in my. record bag that I can you're back in the. day I'd play vinyl yeah and so I'd be. you know just kind of acting on it's. real in the moment decisions like this. tune is in the right key or it's in the. right Tempo it's in the right it's the. right vibe to come on to to follow on. from the last thing and like oh this one. will get them like this one will get. them dancing or this one it's like that.

feeling is like hey. you're kind of living through them. vicariously you're like experiencing. that hype and that fun. with them and through them and then you. can kind of like kind of pretend you're. at your own show at the same time. and it's. it's like psychological and it's it's. also. you're getting to hear all your favorite. music and like so it's just it's.

brilliant yeah my friend satchfield's a. DJ down in New Orleans and he's one of. my best friends from growing up and I. get to watch him like you know how he. looks at a group of people and like you. know you can see the wheels start. turning and it's red and like and he. knows so much music's here you start to. think like you start to see him grin and. kind of like all right what's gonna the. cogs are turning yeah yeah sure yeah. um. what else what else happened in the News. Zach anything else interesting out there. uh yeah we were talking about this it's.

a pretty American story uh Philadelphia. man and just ate a rotisserie chicken. every day for 40 days oh wow he doesn't. recommend it he's on the uh the the. um Jordan Payson diet yeah oh I went to. dinner with Jordan Peterson man and uh. during the pandemic with him and his. daughter. oh yeah and her boyfriend and they. ordered told me all meat and brother at. the end of the meal there's literally a. plate of bones in the middle of the. table it very much had like this Game of.

Thrones type of vibe and no no asparagus. no vegetables. need I think somebody had sparkling. water and they even frowned at him a. little whoever it was. other people had flat water but somebody. bubbled up and everybody was like you. [ __ ] yeah that just went but in the end. it looked like a plate like a batch of. looking a batch of dogs had been there. just to play I'll have to put some. pictures and I have that I uh. you've done anything like that I've. never done 40 days of eating whole.

chickens but I've. um. I mean I'm vegetarian so it's not. something. it's not a sport I can really. participate he didn't really have a. reason which is my criticism he just. said he's doing it to bring people. together so I don't I mean judging by. that picture it did bring a lot of. people together I wonder what. this looks like Yeah The Last Supper. like an Albertsons yeah he's like the. high priest of. chickenating. yeah that's a very reminisce this looks.

like a lot of like a like a pre-party. for a Renaissance fair. I feel like it looks like it looks like. a paint a resin painting yes it does huh. yeah it actually would be really cool if. somebody made like a nice painting of. that you know the right accessory you. can Channel I mean there's a lot of. great bits of Art in here I think you. should challenge your listeners to to. paint this because it's a. It's a Wonderful scene oh it's. remarkable actually the 40th Day of. rotisserie chicken I wonder how many of. those I wonder if that crowd grew over.

the 40 days to this I imagine it didn't. start this way. his girlfriend probably left him I'm. sure after day eight or something of her. being lonely well I imagine the smell oh. there you go got um quite overwhelming. and there he is and it seems very. perverse I think there's something uh. yeah there's something edible or. something going on. yeah something like that okay I don't. even really know what that means but did. you ever work at a uh food place James I.

never worked at a food place now did you. ever although I did I did I did one time. uh do a job at a festival where I was. part of catering stuff oh yeah. um and they gave us a uh one baked. potato oh for lunch for lunch and dinner. that was what we had it was one book toe. which I thought was unreasonable. to say the least I mean it was a they. weren't they didn't give you any butter. or anything it was just you you queued. up for a baked potato and that was your.

softness for the day every British Ray I. feel like has like some mild starvation. somewhere in it I feel like there's like. such a some self-punishment or like some. kind of there's such bad launching it. was like four have you ever seen the. four Yorkshire men sketch I'll have to. play that too basically it's a bunch of. people. sitting around being like you know. where we are when we grew up we didn't. have a pot to piss in you know we didn't. blah blah and then the other guy's like. yeah well I mean we didn't even have a. house we lived in a ditch blah blah blah.

you know and when our dad came home he'd. beat us around the head was like oh you. were lucky the other guy's like you were. lucky we had a you know our dad would. come home and stab us and we'd live in a. pond you know anyway so that's that's. like. but it's like a classic uh I mean I'm. really miss no but is it but it's a it's. a classic English sketch and that's kind. of what the the baked potato thing sort. of like conjures really it's this like. Stark uh.

just you know scarcity mentality. situation where. but but then it's at a festival where. everyone's having loads of fun. um yeah everybody's all geeked up on uh. Molly eating baked potatoes yeah well I. mean they were all eating you know from. food trucks and like oh yeah so we were. just but anyway so I I worked there and. and um but that was only for two days. and I got fired I think because I just. wasn't. I wasn't I just I felt away about the. potatoes I just felt like it wasn't.

enough. and I'm obviously very tall I was always. I was always tall I was tall then oh. so it's hard being that tall guy I feel. like remember the one kid that would. come back from Summer tall and everybody. like what look at this [ __ ] yeah. you know people are like oh look at this. show off you know that was me what does. he think he's doing uh look at this guy. with his [ __ ] ass little cervical spine. yeah yeah yeah you know and they start. saying all that kind of [ __ ] they did. say that kind of [ __ ] and I just I just.

took it and then I learned to love my. height over time but it started yeah I. hated being tall I really hated her oh I. think it would be such an adventure but. it would be very interesting when you. put your arm out of the bed and it just. touches the floor it Pets the cat if. it's down there yeah what about instead. of hitting your head on stuff oh and. then you hate your [ __ ] head I I. there's a number of times I mean it. probably accounts for some of my. personality now what about love a lot of.

your song there's definitely a lot of. loss a lot of like Jesus huh somewhere. else some girl some girl left this guy. at the day old bread store you know yes. um where did some of that come from like. where does where do you think some of. that comes from well. my first record I'd never been in love. and or if I had it'd be unrequited so I. was I lost my opportunity very late I. was very late bloomer.

and uh so I was just like 20 years old. 20 22 23. . pretty late I mean in this country. that's probably not as uncommon because. maybe because of religious reasons. um but with the exchange rate of. virginity is really I think it's. probably about one to one 0.6 to one. when it comes to like British to. American yeah. um. so like what the dollar to the pound.

used to be oh yeah. um and I. just. didn't I was always very ashamed of that. at the time that you hadn't lost it yet. but I hadn't yeah and I and I was also. wasn't like I wasn't in the game oh so. you were really on the sideline I was. really on the sidelines just kind of. being like people will be talking about. sex and I'd be like yeah I mean yeah I. mean totally like vaginas for sure for.

sure like I get it man yeah it must be. it's man you'd be wearing Like a Man. City Jersey just talking about it like. this yeah for sure yeah [ __ ] like horse. yeah sex always I know what you're. talking about. um wow so you were really on the. satellites just of like kind of like a. lot of social stuff kind of or yeah I. think so I was the thing I was just a I. was an outsider in a lot of ways and uh. because that gives you a lot of time to. observe stuff and see it yeah but I was. also like I was kind of semi-popular in. other ways like I was I was always.

like a bit of a. I was always a bit of a Class Clown and. I was I I got in trouble a lot and I was. always very. kind of insolent and like not. I don't know if I was acting out because. I thought it was cool or because I. thought it was. I genuinely had a lot of like. uh like I I was um anti-establishment. yeah in general like I just felt. I just felt I sort of felt like I wasn't. supposed to be at school as well I. always felt like I was supposed to be.

you know. um. in music somewhere doing something else. or doing something else you just I just. knew that I wasn't supposed to I knew I. didn't need Science school probably. always felt very nervous to you I knew I. didn't need to learn French right it. probably felt nervous to you. um in a in a strange way it didn't feel. it didn't feel like beneath me or it. didn't feel it didn't feel like I I. didn't feel like I was too smart for it. or I didn't feel like I just thought I. just thought. I don't need these skills I don't.

because I know where I'm going and I. don't need any of this stuff oh yeah. what I need is. to get older yeah. I just need to be 10 years older and. then I'll have what I want interesting. and also there was this thing I can't. remember what it's got like Alpha. personality basically where. you have this thing where you're like in. the future I'm gonna get everything I. always wanted so it's okay that I'm. suffering now. you know so it's this delusional kind of. thing of like I've got my eyes on the.

prize. and so you can all like. you can all laugh right but I'm gonna be. this. I'm gonna you know be a 23 year old. virgin uh and. so I um I move this mic down just a. touch oh yeah sorry you're good or just. down a little yeah there we go. um sorry it's my it's my first time on a. on a podcast oh yeah I'm happy to have. you man oh no I did I did jamila's but I.

could you know I mean yeah you have to. I mean what are you gonna know I'm not. gonna do this podcast I thought I had a. chance with her dad I didn't even know I. was dropping her off at your house. you thought it was a long career in. podcasting with her ahead of you. um what uh what else do we have what. else is in the news oh wait so did you. first time you fell in love then so what. was that like. it was really amazing I mean I did wait. I waited and it wasn't I didn't do it in.

a kind of um like a religious sense but. I think there was a spiritual component. to it I think I was waiting for someone. I trusted I think I was waiting for. someone I had a spiritual connection. with. um. but actually in the end I lost lost my. virginity to someone ran someone kind of. random or I had no connection with at. all. um but the relationship I ended up in. was one it was great yeah yeah some. someone really wonderful and and um and. then.

I only had one more relationship after. that and that's the one I'm in um so. that brings us up to now but um yeah and. you guys have been in love for a long. time. eight years wow. it's about eight years. um. that's cool that's rare yeah it is. um she's incredible and. you know it I guess it does feel. like we've it just always feels like. we've been together a year which is kind. of amazing that's kind of a cool lyric.

or something like that you know oh yeah. it is. although you know. people are people are strange about. listening to. love songs about someone you're actually. with. I don't know why that is. oh that's true if that's the case it. almost becomes a little bit. yeah does it take on more of a country. music Vibe then sometime a little bit I. should become a country artist. and then people would accept the love. songs you're actually with yeah because.

there's something about your songs I. want you to not be with the person you. mean you want me to be completely. [ __ ] heartbroken I want the person to. be as lonely as I probably am feeling or. it's like you know you want there to be. some of that and look James's music is. in all lonely music if you haven't heard. it it's all it's all types of stuff but. it's a nice way to want I find it it's. it's it's it changes a lot but it's it's. um there's all different it's all to yes. yeah yeah but let's go check it out but. I did become known for like a very you.

know. um. a period in my life where I wrote a lot. of the music that I became known for was. a time of immense sadness and loneliness. for me so I mean I guess it came out. sounding. a little bit full on and a little bit. that but also at the same time it's. uplifting music at the same time because. it's like it's a bit like um. a bit like with Radiohead for example. there's certain bands who Through Time. have have got the criticism.

of sad or as if that's criticism I don't. know why but you know sad or doubt or. depressing or whatever and I think. that's just a reflection of whoever is. listening most of the time I mean. something can sound dreary. and on some day be dreary and on another. day be completely uplifting it just. depends what your mood is and how it's. and also. I would never want to like I'd never. want to uh discourage and I hate. language that discourages people from.

listening to music that gives them. emotional release like that's why I had. such a problem with the sad boy time and. like when I would I'd get written about. in in like Publications like you know. certain Publications basically who'd. write. you know like one of the things was like. he needs to maybe should get out more or. like I was just like you don't get it. like you don't get that there are people. who feel the same thing as I feel right. who are listening to this processing.

stuff right. and by this language what you're saying. is like. don't do that ah yeah and you might be. you might actually be taking away. someone's emotional comfort blanket that. makes their life way harder. you know it's funny I think that's an. honest too about like someone's on this. podcast I'll talk about feelings and. things that I've had over the years and. sometimes I feel like it gets. it's tough because I have to I have to. walk this line I don't want to get to. Melancholy yeah I don't want to get or.

actually I don't care if I get. Melancholy but I don't want to get where. I am in self-pity like self-indulgent. right and it can happen it's really. tough it's tough because you don't. notice it happening you think you're. just exploring it more right and and it. can and it can certainly. um it can certainly happen I think with. with music though it's interesting. because it's like music and musicians. they let us feel something that we can't. say it's like man this you'll see. somebody who won't even talk probably to.

their wife or something but then they'll. they'll both it get there and sing a. song together yeah or dance to us it's. like well that video of everyone's. singing yeah the people trapped in the. middle Hospital singing Katy Perry you. know whatever I Want It That Way. Backstreet Boys yeah yeah I mean you. know and then to some extent there is. some truth in you know like the our. parents generation would just be like no. don't talk about it but like just come. on man you don't need to go to therapy. just.

crack on. carry on yeah you'll be all right just. you know just like get their pale walk. up the hill yeah just just just. um you know to some extent like talk. about it to a friend but other than that. just get on with it and you know you'll. you'll be uh you can push through it and. and even the British are cracking now. Patty pimlet had a freaking outspoken. speech remember a couple of fights ago. what was that oh no like my mate oh yeah. yeah you know it's like yeah you saw. that Brit you know that was really. moving yeah it was just you know it's.

like yeah I think we're also like. there's just an humanity is this energy. of nature it's this path of nature yeah. we don't really know what it is yet yeah. that's true and. I think we've you know when you look at. how much feeling and stuff is in there. at a certain point it's got to come out. like it is it has and then but then I. think what you're touching on is quite. interesting because it's like we're not. there is a certain point at which it's. not productive anymore.

and you know I think that. coming to an un a balance between our. generation maybe and the generation. before us or couple before us a balance. between those two mentalities of like. you know maybe self-victimization. on our account or kind of going over the. same things over and over again yeah and. not realizing you're in a cycle. or a pattern or just kind of like. focusing so much on the trauma that.

you're not actually a kind of paying. attention to like actual real life. practices that can help you or like yeah. Forward Motion forward momentum like the. fact that achievement actually genuinely. does you know can be a good motivation. or you know like General. um kind of yeah like. positive thinking like lots of you know. it's like you can just dwell on things. and we have uh a you know there is a.

school of thought that says. being in constant kind of term kind of. uh digging up of things is a good is is. like important I think there's a balance. to be struck yeah and the the kind of uh. wisdom in the older Generations. sometimes is that um. that we. there is a lot of common common uh. commonality to be found between people.

and there are differences sometimes are. not always worth dwelling on. and that we are. we are strong. capable. uh people who can. [ __ ] get it done get it done yeah get. basically persevere take care of. ourselves yeah sometimes we have to come. to our own rescue you start to realize. that too it's like there's self-help. stuff it starts to create sometimes too. much of a world where you're always. trying to help yourself yeah and you're. reading up and taking in so much stuff.

about you know inspirational but you're. not actional and also that's an industry. that's a people are profiting off right. or your your constant engagement with. self-help your constant engagement it's. like at a certain point it's like are. you okay yeah you know if you're not you. know I think that we I always encourage. being uh aware of your emotions and. trying to delve into them and like. figure them out. um but I think. there is a there is a certain point.

where. it's time to rejoin. the world and try and Float yeah I mean. you'll yeah I find you will if you sit. there and they're feeling long enough. looking around inside of it and looking. at the reading the graffiti and [ __ ]. you'll then that's where you're gonna. live you know I start to realize it's. like you know they always say you can. act your way in a positive thinking but. you can't think your way into positive. action you know right and that's. something I have to come back to because. I like to dwell I like to wander around. in the in the um in the art museum of my.

childhood and of my like things that. meant something to me and like my first. kiss in the first like mistakes I made. and like I like to wander on and look at. all the artifacts and yeah things but. you can't live in the museum you can't. yeah yeah and is it time to shut it off. and leave the museum yeah there's a um I. can't remember but I think it's my. girlfriend just talking about like. you know being in this hole and just. like painting the walls and it's just. now it's just a beautiful hole it's like. which now sounds.

but no it's semi-sexual in a way that I. didn't want it to but that's you know. that is right to some extent it like. sums up where you can get to where you. can draw the map perfectly of how your. emotions have of your emotional state. you can become so obsessed with like. understanding your emotional state that. actually you've kind of Taken focus of. actual forward momentum and living.

um and yeah so and I think huge yeah it. is and I think a lot of people who are. in that place they they you know a lot. of people who you have you noticed this. when someone's. just for the first time discovering like. [ __ ] that they've done wrong or the. things that they like not happy about. within themselves they're just. constantly talking about it and they. want to talk about it to everyone and. every you know and and they're going. into such detail and you're just like. but that's someone who.

is at the start they just got there they. just started that's always the way. um. and yeah eventually I wanted to get to a. place where I just didn't have to talk. about it yeah you know and I could just. talk about other [ __ ]. yeah or at least look back on it with a. sense of power and not be standing in it. as much yeah because I did all that I've. gone through all of those phases this is. not coming from a judgmental place this. is saying to like this is saying like. you have to kind of like become that. like evangelizing kind of just to just.

to you know you've got to destabilize. first I think. that's why it's so hard sometimes to. imagine looking inwards because. initially you're going to have to go. through a period of completely. stabilization. and that's why a lot of people never do. it um which I think it's amazing that. you have uh because and and being public. about it and talks about on your podcast. and a lot of people have probably done. it through you I'm with you yeah I think. I'll you know we just try and we will we. wonder sometimes what is our instrument. why does God have us here that you know.

to share whatever you know it's like you. don't even know it's like what is the. little piece of the universe that's. supposed to fly out of you yeah so do. you do you out of side of um. like podcasting is there like a hobby. that you have like a do you play. anything I just got a piano at home oh. really yeah so I'm excited about it did. you talk to me about that one point yeah. I used to play and then I just got a new. piano at home nice it's a you it's a new. used piano so nice yeah it's a baby.

grand I think a Baldwin. nice I've got a baby grand I grew up. around amazing this place called Baldwin. Motors I used to do Tire Care I think. yeah you looked it up Baldwin Motors. Covington Louisiana so I don't know if. they make I don't know if they also do. pianos or this is a family I don't know. it could be. joint family but. um I mean it'd be amazing through the. cars and pianos yeah well I think they. did some good cars that's Baldwin Motors. right there. I suspect it's not the same but I oh. they really upgraded they used to just. do mostly tires although Yamaha make.

pianos and they also make four thousand. dollars yeah they make a lot of things. yeah what about um. I'm trying to think of something else. what else is in the News Zach anything. else you need out there that man ate. those chickens but I didn't really we. didn't really talk about it well it. didn't do it for me did it was it. something about it it seems grotesque a. little bit I guess is it not. um I don't like those chickens yeah I. don't like those rotisserie chickens it. just have you ever seen 40 chickens.

either no it seems like a number of. chickens that shouldn't exist all at the. same time well and it just like would it. you know I just see some man that's. pulling and now the the chicken always. feels like it's just barely chicken it. just it feels like they've been through. it all you know like also if you just. put it down like to you know if we were. really to analyze that situation it's. like. it's not that hard to eat 40 chickens it. every day you know it's like one chicken. every day yeah could you imagine I mean.

yeah I could do it you could do that I. could do that I'm a vegetarian like 28. days I would not be I'd be like this oh. I'll be bored yeah but it's like just. watching a man get bored for 40 days. isn't that yeah you can do that anywhere. I could really get bored anyway. someone could I could watch a man. getting bored. I could just talk to the person I might. uh Dom my my producer co-producer friend. asking what it's like to work with me I. I don't think being bored for 40 days is. is entertainment yeah as much as those.

people thought it was unless it is now. like that's what Entertainment also is. becoming it's interesting how it's. getting strange like I would watch a. woman like a small woman eat. like maybe a hot dog or a piece of cake. or something online I would watch it to. me that would be very entertaining I'm. now imagining watching you watch her. that's why I laughed well there's a. Japanese show where they have little. children go run to the market for their. mom or something yeah and it's just like.

voice it's like a little bit of voice. over and you just watch them go on the. little journey it's the show has to be. for two to four year olds it is. captivating but all of those shows are I. feel like they're Universal ages really. well this one is just something to learn. from things like What's that show can. you look it up brother Japanese children. go to market. [Music]. um it's captive in this show you this. why you're like oh is he gonna you know. is kimchi gonna make the lemonade or. whatever you know and he does it and.

you're just damn blown away it's called. old enough old enough yes God it's good. man she's Korean isn't it yeah kimchi is. Korean too but is that is that yeah they. probably changed it there she is right. there. Wow since children as young as two out. into the world alone it's an absolute. roller coaster a Japanese TV show that. abandons toddlers on public transport. it's a one way to look at it man. but it's pretty great you see them go. out there and they're just who is that.

right there. does it say doesn't doesn't give a name. oh yeah that's beautiful just says Force. defend for themselves that's one way to. look at it look. it's tough times everywhere. um I think there's something pandemicy. about that isn't there something oh no. it came out before the well done when. did this come out. this is this is a YouTube video Japanese. kids go shopping alone. did you um dude do you remember that. time when I kind of saw you and saw you. do music and make music with Andre 3000.

dude I remember you inviting me out to. this place and I it was in Malibu was it. like this cool like kind of little. Shangri-La yeah. it was like a studio because it's like a. rehab yeah it looked like a little rehab. so I pulled up and you and um and I. didn't know that it was him there you. didn't tell me who that you were. wrecking me you know you just said you. were working in a studio yeah yeah and I. came up and you guys were working on. something that's pretty cool wow that.

was such an amazing time in my life um. we made a lot of music together did you. guys yeah yeah we did is it interesting. with celebrity how you kind of Pat like. you'll become like you know together for. a while with certain and then yeah it. just you just yeah you just sort of pass. each other but also you know we stayed. in touch like I've talked to him fairly. regularly and. [Music]. um. he's just I mean he's he's like. the the goat yeah as they say so you.

know I'll always be honored. just uh I find him always inspiring. probably still. he's still such a different thinker. um about everything and although he did. go on the. um the Rick Rubin podcast and say he's. never gonna release any of the music so. that you guys made. well I mean. he's just generally talking about music. you know full stop so. keep it.

I I don't know just he just felt like I. think he was saying something along the. lines of you know he just feels. sort of out the game or like not really. part of that and he's just expressing. himself in all these different ways and. we actually did put something out we did. make yeah we did a thing where he was. playing clarinet and I was playing piano. um I don't I think for me it's like I. don't uh I just want to help as a. producer like because I was in a. producer role. I just want to help someone Express the.

thing they want to express and if Andre. 3000 isn't in a time of his life where. he wants to make rap music then I'll. help him Express clarinet music. yeah help him Express maybe even just. realizing hey this isn't a time where. you want to put something out yeah which. may change or may not who knows there's. a lot of music get put out. no a lot of music doesn't get put out. what a vast majority of Music doesn't. get bit out are there some amazing songs. out there that you think have been made.

that or have we're not have not been put. out there's a lot of mate a lot of songs. out there that I shouldn't think. shouldn't have been put out. um. there's a lot of amazing songs I've. heard in studios that never came out for. sure yet like hundreds. hundreds and they're honestly feels like. a crime honestly it feels like a crime. it's it's terrible. when you hear them and you're like oh I. can't wait I can't wait for that to come.

out and people to hear it and. yeah because it's something happens like. promo doesn't work out like someone. somebody like an anr says I'm not really. sure about that one or someone says to. the artist like what a friend of theirs. says oh I don't like that one and it. just turns them off it. or they develop negative association. with that song it's happened with me. plenty of times I mean I've got songs. and. my hard drive is Thousands thousands of. songs that haven't made the cut or.

they missed their moment. you know some songs just feel like a. moment and it's like if you don't put. them out soon yeah you're not you just. you're not gonna uh you're never gonna. feel like that again. or maybe sometimes like I didn't nail. the vocal take I didn't fully um so I. don't like the way I'm singing so and I. can't be bothered going back in and. singing it again so there's all these. songs that the the actual DNA of the. song is good. but. you can't be bothered doing it again. going back into that place.

yeah and you can't get back there it's. kind of the value of a moment it's like. sometimes you know it's like yeah man we. were so close right there for that. moment yeah and it's like sometimes. those things are batches of songs so. like there'll be a batch of songs that. sounded like. retrograde or there'll be a batch of. songs that sounded like say what you. will but say what you will was the best. of that batch and retrograde was the. best of that batch so I put that out. instead of lots of kind of cop kind of. similar tone songs in a similar tone.

that like one is good. did you ever get to work with like. Willie Nelson or John Mayer. um. I've never worked with either of those. no I never have. um but you know Never Say Never I mean. it's really not Willie Nelson is Willie. Nelson is still alive yeah still no is. he making me is he making music and yeah. I think he is he has a daughter I think. our granddaughter Ray Lynn Nelson I. think who also does music all right. um. yeah is there an artist that you feel.

like I guess you did you get pitched. artists how does that work do you pitch. does your agent kind of pitch you to. artists how does that kind of work that. usually doesn't work out I've found if. it's a if there's an a r connection or. some kind of industry connection it. doesn't really. you know. it's usually from me just getting in. touch on Instagram and saying like I. love your music or something like that. kind of like how how we met I mean. obviously we're not collaborating. although this you could call it a. collaboration that's true.

um but you know we just. like jam Jam's quite good at just. reaching out I sort of learned that from. her she was like you know you can just. reach out to people directly and I was. like she's ready connecting with people. yeah Simon Rex and he's great at. connecting yes yes so that's like two. great connectors is your he's so good in. that movie uh the one red rocket yeah. he's so good in that so ridiculous how. they can make it. yeah at the beginning you're like oh.

this is my buddy Simon by the end you're. like oh this is this guy yeah he was. brilliant he was so brilliant and he's. been staying busy since then it's such a. while what an amazing comeback I know. fantastic to watch like I was so [ __ ]. happy to see that yeah Hollywood's so. interesting like that you know. um I mean maybe come back something. maybe the right word sort of just like a. re-entry into the right of the world he. feels like that he'd moved out to the. National Park he was living in a. national park and so that's really even.

a bear yeah you're at the end of the. line then because you're basically about. I mean when you're living in a national. park you really you're trying to you. know yeah you're thinking probably about. suicide you're not gonna do it but. there's enough hikes around to keep you. safe. um I'm just joking Simon knows that uh. but he moved out to like Joshua tree and. he was just kind of in his life and then. this producer saw him on Instagram and. said you are perfect yeah because he's. like an incredible looking hilarious. person yeah and good any and he's long.

and good you know has some goofy. elements and like. um. but just the biggest heart and so it was. really awesome to get to see him like. and just to see his pride that he felt. like. you wanna everybody wants to feel like. they. are capable maybe or they matter yeah or. that they. we all just want to feel a little bit of. that well like we can just do the thing. that we're good at.

in the Limelight for just a moment yeah. and just be like I did that and you know. there's definitely a thing inside a lot. for people that's just sort of screaming. for that occasionally every so often and. if you can if you mat if you happen to. be in a position where you can like. satisfy that voice. it's a nice place to be because. otherwise that can eat you up on it like. if you just can't ever vocalize it or. you can't ever you can't get it. satisfied yeah and it can be satisfied. even just in a relationship it could be.

satisfied by that one person that you're. with they could be satisfied by a parent. or a child it could be satisfied by. a million people you know it could it. could need to be it's interesting it. just has to land in that place that it. said that you feel. seen you know yeah totally yes I I uh. and some people it only takes one person. you know it takes a while for a. girlfriend or boyfriend or a parent just. that's all it takes in there yeah. well to be the biggest thing in.

someone's life yeah be the center of. somebody's kind of Universe. um. are you um. with anyone at the moment nope I started. doing I I I've been doing a little bit. of just meantime yeah I took 30 days off. of dating so I could get an idea of what. I was kind of doing nice because you can. get so sporadic yeah you know you're. just here and there you go on a date. like do I even care about this what's. going on how's that in Los Angeles is. that difficult it's been a little rocky.

Nashville's been even tougher kind of. really really yeah because I don't go. out that much and so it's been kind of a. tough place to go um you know to meet. folks do your interests line up with the. people in LA or in Nashville more I. think they're kind of the same I think. it sort of depends I think you can kind. of find the same type of people anywhere. you know I'm not like. I'm just kind of middle of the road you. know I think I'm trying to think of. something that really turns me off about. somebody. doing this in a restaurant.

oh yeah they're done done probably. you're out but if they're attractive. enough you might. I'd probably still order dessert with. them you know so I'd Mill around a bit. so if they did that through start a main. course and dessert and they're just good. like that unless they were like setting. a contaminer for some dope assets that I. didn't know was coming you know or it. was like a flash mob or something that. never started they're just like hey guys. they think it's gonna happen as long as.

they just keep. so um have you gotten invited to go play. it like some weird private events or. something that was really interesting. you're like okay this seems strange or. not strange I've done some cool I've. done a couple corporate things that I. ended up not doing anymore after that. because I just felt. in like a couple of fashion events and. things where. very Zoolander type stuff yeah you know. um. but. no I don't I you know I haven't had the.

like. I haven't had the. sort of um surreal experience yeah yeah. I haven't really had that in music like. some crazy thing where they invite you. like a baked bean conference or. something everybody's losing their mind. or something no yeah. um. but and if and the things I have done. that were a bit weird I think I'm under. contract to not. talk about. the thing when I say a bit weird I mean. like yeah like.

um. like maybe. maybe it's not the kind of gig that like. it was a [ __ ] gig oh yeah it's like a. really [ __ ] gig yeah and there's and I. was like okay let's not have any videos. [Laughter]. well thanks for all your contributions. man I'm glad that um. we get to spend some time together you. know yeah I mean and I'd love to you.

know this is I've never done this sort. of I've never been part of the. podcasting Universe particularly yeah at. all it's great we got to that I'm really. glad you that you that you came on and. it felt like like walking through the. screen in a way walking into this uh. interesting it was like just jumping. through YouTube because I've watched. your podcast so many times yeah uh do a. lot of people say that what that you've. watched it no that you well they've just. they've been of you know they've watched. your [ __ ] for so long and they're just.

like in the seat where other people are. sitting oh yeah I think it's kind of. fascinating to people I think people. don't know what to think sometimes I. think they're a little bit shocked at. just how the production works and then. suddenly you're there it is interesting. how it goes from just us sitting here. talking into like a conversation that. people could listen to or segments of a. conversation yeah you know I mean we. probably like I feel like our. conversations uh pretty wide reaching. anyway. yeah I think so this reminding me I. think a lot of like why I always have.

enjoyed chatting with you you know yeah. me taking time yeah. um what would you say like you think to. like yeah I know this is kind of a. general thing but it's like. if there's somebody who's having trouble. expressing themselves or figuring out. how to do that. um what suggestion do you think you. would give to somebody like that. well. um. I'd say try a few different things.

um and if you express yourself to. someone and they kind of like. lightly punish you for doing it uh. whether that's. rejecting you or whatever it is then. maybe they're just not the right person. to do that with but there will be. someone. who will. like your music take you yeah either. yeah like your music or they'll all like. they'll take you as you are basically as. a person. um yeah it's so much we spend so much of. our time trying to adjust our song to.

fit the audience yeah instead of finding. the person that hears it you know yeah. and to be I think true confidence is is. just being confident that sorry. using it twice but true confidence is is. being in a situation and just knowing. that. you'd be okay if that person didn't like. what you said or didn't like you know. kind of rejected you or whatever and I. that's hard to get to even even now I.

find that pretty difficult. um but uh and in so many ways I've I've. edited myself to death like to to be. okay for everyone else's consumption but. I think. to some extent it's like. kind of. saying what's in on your mind anyway. and come or May because ultimately. the fastest way to find out if you're in. the right situation is to be yourself.

and uh you can spend many years. doing the opposite not being yourself. and hoping that people will accept you. uh and ultimately you're just Treading. Water you're never gonna you're never. gonna fully swim you'll you'll only. you'll never scratch the full itch of. of. you you and and. friendship and love and. um real connection because you've never.

been your true self and being willing to. let things go by. yeah relationships friends like all. sorts of things like things that may not. yeah being willing to say this isn't it. right now this isn't yeah you know I've. struggled with that with dating and. stuff to be like. I'm just afraid to let go because what. it you know it's just such a reaction. you know what if some part of me there's. a subconscious part of me that's what if. there's nothing else you know yeah is. there like have you met people where. you've you've kind of felt like now the.

idea of them not being there is too. scary to actually leave the situation. even though it's probably not right oh I. think it's happening before in the past. for sure you know I think taking some. time from dating and stuff helps me get. a better view of that and see it you. know. um what are the apps I mean I've been in. a relationship for eight years I think. what are the apps now yeah I just got on. I just created a profile on rye but I. haven't opened it I haven't started it. all right so I'm not sure if I want to. I've kind of like it's been like a month.

now that I've had it and I just don't. know if I I just don't know how much I. want to be spending my time. trying to manage that and then how much. do I want to just kind of let it happen. but totally and also when your job I. mean I guess you meet a lot of people in. your job. um yeah you meet a decent amount a lot. of them is men that's that's true. although you could you could change that. I guess you could just start inviting. more people you might find more like. mines.

um in in in the in the female space yeah. I might have to get out and get a couple. more games around you know it wouldn't. be a bad idea but the I remember being. on in my in my year I think between two. relationships being single and having a. rye account and. one of the I was like scrolling and one. of the interests someone to put was. coconut oil. and I just closed the app and deleted it. and then there's no one back.

that's uh it just seems too surface. um James Blake man thank you so much for. spending time brother yeah my my. pleasure it's so nice to be here and. thanks for having me you know I'm a fan. as well as a friend but I just uh I love. what you do and it's great to actually. see the place yeah we're going inside of. the internet man uh yeah yeah thank you. man thank you for all your wonderful. music and um is there music that people.

can like you know it's such a generic. question but yeah is there you're gonna. keep making music. that's the plan okay good I'm gonna keep. making it. um the next thing I think is going to be. more of a more of a dance orientated. slash more electronic type thing. um which I've just um. yeah I'm in the process of finishing but. who knows how long that kind of thing. takes. so but I'm also I'm I've got a club. night that I'm I'm doing at the moment. called CMYK uh in partnership with.

Rhonda uh a club named Rhonda. um Rhonda presents CMYK and that's my uh. club night that I've been doing around. the country and so if anyone wants to. come and see me DJ and I'm playing a lot. of my new music there. um then they can come and see that. groovy man we'll put the link in the uh. in the description. um thanks so much man great to see you. yeah man loads of love thank you brother. back at you cheers. [Music]. feel I'm falling like these leaves I.

must be. Cornerstone. oh but when I reach that ground I'll. share this piece of my life I found I. can feel. it in my bones. [Music].