Investigative Journalist Nate Halverson | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #510

today's guest is an independent writer. journalist and reporter he contributed. to the documentary the grab which is all. about the money and power controlling. the food industry in America and Beyond. outside of that he writes for the center. for investigative reporting I'm really. fascinated to spend time with today's. guest Nate. Halverson on. [Music]. me I'll sit and tell you my.

stories. shine on. me and I will find a song I. [Applause]. sing um Nate halberton thanks for coming. man dude are you kidding me thank you so. much for having me yeah I appreciate it. man I watched the. grab uh which is the documentary that. you guys are putting out.

and just so I'm clear what was the goal. of the documentary because to me it. seemed like you're trying to show that a. lot. of land or arable land is that land that. can grow crops yeah okay a lot of land. that can sustain crops is being bought. up by um different countries that it's. kind of like a land grab for that land. right now because they're not making. more of it that's it man I mean it it is.

in the 21st century it's looking more. like you know oil was the commodity of. the 20th century you know gold diamonds. these things but in the 21st century it. looks like the rich and Powerful are. increasingly turning to control food and. water as you know like the basic. necessities um and we're just seeing a. ton whether it's foreign governments you. know wealthy Wall Street corporations. are all beginning to turn to it you know. I think now Bill Gates's family they the. largest farmers in the US right like.

they have they're now the largest. Farmland owners in the US right and. that's interesting because he's. obviously a guy with a lot of foresight. a guy who's able. to kind of Envision The Next Step. obviously from his past from his history. of being able to like acquire uh. companies that are doing that um in. different Realms um you kind of broke. this story that this was happening years. ago yeah because before this I mean when. I before I started working on this dude. I knew nothing about any of this right. like I came into a cold turkey and I was.

asked to look at uh China's largest meat. company buying the world's largest pork. company which was based in Virginia and. at the time Congress was kind of. freaking out you know like is China Buy. in you know our meat. Supply um and so I start I was asked to. look into it because I had this. background and dig it into Hong Kong. financials where this meat company was. publicly. traded and I went to China I talked to.

folks in the US I talked to people in US. intelligence and it turns out yeah like. the Chinese government was behind uh. this purchase that's effectively one in. four American Pigs and the reason is. because the Chinese government kind of. clued into something before other folks. which is that in the 21st century food. is power right like you need to control. food to control your political future. and so the Chinese government began. putting into these five-year plans that. they put out um an effort to go overseas.

and begin buying up food and water. resources um so that they could control. it so it's a strategy that was happening. definitely right yep and so they want to. get the pigs because that's a source of. food yeah it's a source of food and. that's a source of you know for China. political stability right if you have. food then the people will eventually. follow you it's like yeah you'll do. anything to eat yes that's exactly it. and and you know like I've now traveled. the world that was like the first one.

that the first food story that I looked. at you know and I I thought like okay. it's a story about food it's a story. about farming you know so I was. surprised when all you know then I'm. talking to us intelligence people right. and then I'm talking to like people in. the defense department right like all of. a sudden food is this like big National. Security and so as I began traveling the. world I mean I began going to other. countries where those governments were. using the food supply to control the. population right and I think that's what. people are worried about going forward. into the 21st century is that by.

controlling the food you can control the. people right they're just thinking okay. how do we need to control the people. next how do we still have control over. people and they start to look at what. could become a. scarcity yeah yeah and they believe it's. food yeah exactly and so like the. country I had gone to was was Venezuela. um and Venezuela at the time was having. all these food riots right like people. people you would go and you'd work your. 9 to-5 job and then you'd come home and. there'd literally be a one Mile Line.

long line to get into the grocery store. and there's no way you're going to work. like a 10hour day and then stand in line. all night right and then go back and so. you know I was talking to these guys. that were working class that had jobs. and they were literally eating out of. dumpsters I saw these dudes eating raw. meat right and and he's like I've got a. job he's like I just can't afford food. and so then I went to this you know like. secret location this this this Warehouse. full of food after watching people like. starving people people scraping by.

trying to survive without food in. Venezuela I went to this government. Warehouse full of food on a Sunday when. it was supposed to be closed and who was. there it was a bunch of Venezuelan. military and police they were open the. government has opening it up and These. Guys these big buff dudes were Wheeling. out cartfuls of food that like I hadn't. seen in like my one week there and they. were giving the author like the. authorities were giving the police and. the the military the guy that were.

knocking down the population food so. that they would of course continue to. control the population wow um but how do. you start to see that it becomes a. bigger story though I mean I just it was. crazy man because I just started seeing. these dots like these stories that you. would see around the world you know like. oh this country is running low on food. and its people are migrating out or like. this this country just bought up you. know like half the Farmland in like. Madagascar right you know like when I. think dwo out of South Korea bought up.

like made like a secret deal for like. half the Farmland in Madagascar and then. the people rise up and overthrow in the. countries in Civil War and you you begin. seeing these stories and then you begin. being like Oh my God like all of these. seemingly separate stories are all. connected as part of this like bigger. Trend right and that's when I began. tapping into people who were beginning. to follow it like in the shadows right. like the government the intelligence. Community others were beginning to sort. of piece this together um but it for my.

reporting anyway it appears that like it. really was the Chinese government was. probably the first to wake up to this to. really tap into it and there's a reason. for that I mean the leadership of China. went through the Great Famine right like. xiin Ping has told stories about living. through the Great Famine which was the. late 50s when estimates are that like. man 37 million people died um as a. result of starvation in China in China. wow yeah and so when you go through a.

period where you're looking around and. dude I've heard I mean like stories I. don't even like to tell because they're. so awful about what it's like you know. if you have 37 million people that. actually died as a result of starvation. that means you got like a 100 million. people that are close right and people. are just like doing desperate crazy. things and so when the leadership of. China can remember that like they are. more keyed in when that Trend starts you. know poking up its head um when there. are these you know.

when there are these forecasts things. are going to get more and more dire in. the future they moved quickly to begin. to sort of control food and water. supplies for their population right so. they're kind of like obviously they're a. little more sensitive to it but um but. you noticed that they were kind of at. the head of the trend yeah um yeah my. father grew up in Nicaragua and he grew. up there like in the. 1910s okay and so he would tell me. stories about people starving and um. kids in his village and stuff eating. dirt and like their stomachs becoming. distended that's right um literally.

making. dirt like people say mud pies and stuff. that kids make like but literally making. mud pies and eating them you know just. to like be able to put something like. feel like you're putting something in. yeah where where in Nicaragua was your. dad he's from Bluefields Nicaragua oh. sure out in the coast yeah so I'm not I. know his some of his family was down. there um being missionaries and that's. how his parents met each other but um. yeah he would just tell me stories like. that when I was a kid and it was just.

it was unbelievable I mean I've even. thought I've been on a fast for a couple. days and seen um and this is a little. off topic I guess but I seen a guy at. Best Buy I had been on a fast for four. days I seen a guy at Best Buy yeah and I. was like I will I could I could eat that. guy yeah it wasn't it was like I'd never. had a thought but like that before I've. been in Best Buy probably 70 times and. i' never thought you know what I could. eat one of these sales attendant or. whatever but it was just in my head it.

was like a little bit of that hunger was. like what are we going to do here if. this guy looks the other way yeah dude. yeah I know man it's weird like and and. that's what it comes down to and that's. the thing that like and then people are. surprised they're like why are all these. Venezuelans coming to our border and. you're like because they're hungry. they've been staring at other people. thinking about eating them so they're. like maybe it's time to leave yeah you. don't even think that that's one of the. reasons why people were coming up um. what are some of the other dots you. start to connect cuz I see in the. documentary there's like um land that's.

bought in Arizona there's a huge uh. focus on land that's bought in Africa. like what are some of the other dots you. start to connect that uh really make. this in your mind like bring it to a. boil kind of besides just paranoid. Chinese like and with with uh. forethought yeah right uh I mean dude. you're right it was it was all over the. place it was like you know I began. thinking okay so if China's focused on. this like what other you know wealthy. countries are focused on this.

and um and you know lo and behold the. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was one right. because believe it or not even though. it's a desert country it it had these. huge underground water reserves aquafers. underneath the desert and that's why. like you know there are Springs you know. flowing to the surface of the desert. that are mentioned in the bible 2,000. whatever years ago and starting in like. the '90s they began using their oil dcks. to tap into the water and actually use.

that water to grow wheat in the desert. so this like wheat country by the 90s. was the world's sixth largest exporter. of wheat wow Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia. but dude that water doesn't last right. and and so that they drained it and so. like those Springs that are mentioned. from 2,000 years ago they would dry gosh. and so then it's like where are they. going to go and that was like the. question I had in my head okay so like. if they drained their water with this. program like where are they yeah man.

that's when I found them in like the. Arizona desert I'm talking like Saro. cactuses Wy coyote like desert desert. and they were doing the same thing. pumping up this ancient water that. doesn't get replenished from rain. because it's there from like the last. ice age or something and then they use. that water right there to grow Al Alpha. and then they ship the AL Alpha from. Arizona basically to Los Angeles put it. on a ship and then ship that Elfa which. is hay all the way back to Saudi Arabia. I because that's how you move water like.

you couldn't fill enough oil tankers. full of water to effectively move water. what you do is if you're water short you. use the water wherever it is to grow the. crops and then you ship the crops. because we use 70 to 80% of our the. water fresh water around the world we. use it for food that's what we need. fresh water for food so if one entity. shows up in in another space and you and. grows a crop really what they're using. is water that's the real resource. because they could grow it at home if. they had water 100% China doesn't have.

the water to grow enough food to feed. its population wow and even with the. pigs does that come back to water too or. no even more so because right like you. can you can grow elf Alpha in the. Arizona desert and then you can ship all. that elf Alpha back to Saudi Arabia or. like in the case of pigs you can grow. all of the grain right that the pigs are. going to eat here in the US and then you. feed that grain to the pigs and then you. ship the pigs back and so like a pig. isn't even more concentrated form of.

water they call it like virtual water is. what an economist would call it. wow so wait explain that part to me more. time about the pig yeah yeah so like you. yeah so you would grow the grain here. yep with the water here yep and then you. would feed the pig here yep and then you. then you Slaughter the pig here and then. you send the meat back right and so now. you've used the water to grow the grain. here and animals require a lot of. livestock feed so it takes even more.

grain than if like you were just eating. like a a meat-free diet it takes just. more water to eat a meat filled diet. right okay yeah and so then you you grow. the grains here you feed it to the pig. the pig the pig craps all over the place. you end up with these like giant manure. lagoons which are toxic those are here. and you Slaughter the pig and then you. ship the meat back so you get stuck with. the [ __ ] and they get the meat wow and. so how does like for the example in in. uh Arizona how does that affect. like Americans like how does that affect.

us totally so like when I when I broke. that story about the Saudis in the. Arizona desert in 2015 the locals didn't. know right like they didn't they knew. that their their their groundwater the. well that the the water that they were. lied on for their homes like it was. getting lower every single year right. what they didn't know was that some. other country had run out of water and. come here to grab that water right and. uh and so when I broke that story people. are like yeah it's like our water's been. going down and it's just been getting. worse and so what ends up happening to.

the people here is like I talked to. people and they were like one woman she. was a nurse from California worked her. whole life wanted to retire somewhere. more affordable the desert's beautiful. man it's beautiful out there right and. so she and her husband get this like. little like Ranch you know small piece. of property super modest like double. wide trailer they drill a well and now. they got water and they got their lives. they're going to retire there they're. you know the grandkids can come visit. well what happens is these big. International farming move in they keep. drilling deeper and deeper and pumping.

more and more water up and pretty soon. these families are going like dude I. can't pay half a million dollars to. drill a well deep enough to find the. water that's still there and so they're. at risk of losing like everything like. all their life savings that they put. into their homes right because now their. land has been sold out kind of from. under them really or their water's been. sold out from under them but isn't there. an agency that would protect the. homeowners there isn't there some sort. of no I mean the the law is is that if.

you it's different in every region but. in this part of Arizona if you buy a. piece of land you can pump out as much. water as you want doesn't matter how it. impacts your neighbor wow yeah so like. if you're you know a multi-billion. dollar Corporation you can go in there. and buy up land put in the deepest well. and just suck out as much water as you. want and you know the the the the the. the folks living modestly around you. their water goes away and that's just. tough you know that's how the law is.

written right yeah it says right here uh. according to United Nations worldw. development report 2024 2.2 billion. people will still La access to Safe. Drinking Water and 3.5 billion will not. have access to Safe sanitation by. 2024 but that's about um drinking water. I think um because drinking water is it. the same as water for that you're. talking about well like if you're. pumping water to grow crops you're. eventually going to you could have the. potenti potential of taking away. somebody's drinking water and that's.

what I see right but like when it turns. to like quantity like what we're. actually using water for like you know. cuz people say this to me like oh Nestle. bought up this aquafer they're going to. bottle it they're going to use it up and. I'm like okay but like put in. perspective one tenth of 1% one tenth of. 1% of the fresh water we use is for. drinking 70 to 80% is for growing crops. wow right and so when you're talking. about somebody tapping an aquafer to. bottle water like one10 of 1% is how. much we as humans drink right that's.

nothing it's nothing the what we're. pumping water out of aquifers for it. like huge huge rates huge amounts is to. grow food right yeah and so these are. and then like and if if you know like if. it were just drinking water that was an. issue there are ways to move around. enough water to get everyone drinking. water in theory right um but when you. start talking about food that's when. you're talking about like what people. really need to move water and they. really need water for is for food yeah.

so drinking water we can we have enough. water for that pretty much man I mean. like the vast amount of water like you. use as an individual is the food you put. into your body and not the water that. you drink got it like vast understood. yeah so okay so you start to connect. some of these dots you see the um the. issue in Arizona from Saudi Arabia are. there other things like that happening. around America or is that just kind of a. oneoff no no it's happening around. America right like it's going through.

this pretty big transitionary period. where like I think like and maybe you. know you and I are roughly the same age. I think like a lot of people still kind. of have this view of like Farmers as. like you know Willie Nelson's Farm a. right like small mediumsized farmers. like you know both of you know my my. family were all farmers in in Minnesota. and Iowa my dad grew up Barefoot on a. farm right like we kind of Envision it. is like these these smaller Farms um but. increasingly what they are are these. really large Farms um increasingly owned.

by like Wall Street Pension funds or. foreign governments or foreign. corporations right like that's been the. trend line is that these smaller Farmers. these Med medium-sized farmers are. getting bought out by bigger and bigger. conglomerates um and so like we're in. this transitionary period in the US as. to like how food is getting made I see. and so not getting made by smaller. Farmers but getting made in by larger. corporations yeah that could have other.

interests in the farm is just a uh pass. or just a um placeholder that's it it's. a it's a you know it's another profit. mechanism because you know like if. you're a country and you're like we need. to buy up food and water resources to. make sure our people get fed and that. they don't overthrow us right and if. you're if you're Wall Street and you're. looking at that you're like oh if there. is a crunch on food in the future food. prices are going to go up and if food. prices go up that's a profit margin. right and so like I've read these these. reports reports put out by some of the. biggest you know investment Banks and.

they you know they're just saying you. know water is the new oil food's the new. gold of the 21st century like this is. where things are going to happen he says. right here as of December 31st 2022. foreign entities owned about 43.4. million Acres of us agricultural land. and Forest which is about 3.4% of all. agricultural land and almost 2% of all. us Farmland I wonder if it's grown since. then well there's two things about that. is um cuz that doesn't seem like that. much no it's a it's a trend line um but.

the other thing was is I pulled all of. that data and the when when there's an. old law in the books that says if you're. a foreign company you need to register. if you're going to buy us Farmland some. states just ban it outright but um the. the I looked and I was like I know that. this Farm is owned by a foreign. corporation and it wasn't in the. database ah yeah and so like the. government wasn't really following up. and making sure and so like I have great.

you know those numbers to me come with a. huge asterisk which is like it requires. them to report it not everyone's. reporting it and the government doesn't. seem to be following up to to make sure. right understood yeah and then the other. thing is is like you have huge amounts. of foreign wealth that are then put into. intermediaries like black rock or. something right like these huge Asset. Management I what do black rock got $9. trillion that they manage and so you'll. have a sovereign wealth fund from. another country that'll put money there. there and then so then black rock or. some subsidiary of black rock or.

subsidiary of a subsidiary of Black Rock. might own the land but the financial. backing is a foreign government I see so. there just like a lot of loopholes and. um like hidden llc's that sort of thing. yeah yeah yeah mhm well how much of the. land in America can be used and even on. the planet if you know it can be used to. grow crops that's interesting man I. don't know how much of the land I mean. like what you see in the Arizona desert. it's like it's desert but if you pump up.

the water then you can grow alala right. and so it kind of comes down to like do. you have the water there to do it what. we know is what they'll say is that like. uh some huge percent 40 or 70% I can't. remember off the top of my head some. huge percent of the world's you know. remaining available Farmland is in. Africa right and so that's why there's. this huge push now for corporations to. go down and to try to grab up land in. Africa because now you know they'll say. oh Africa is going to feed the.

world re Africa is going to feed the. world but I'm not saying no but I'm just. I remember 20 years ago when we were. having to do they had the wasn't there. the annual music every year to feed. Africa yeah yeah yeah and uh um and and. and and and again man the problem with. that that that thing is is like so then. I went to Africa I was like okay so. where's all of this vacant land and it. wasn't vacant man people had ancestrally. been living on that land and they'd been. farming for their needs you know for.

their families right and what had. happened was is these huge International. corporations had come in and just moved. people off wow and so I was visiting. these places where people were literally. dying um having had their land taken. from them by one of these International. corporations that then could ship the. food to a wealthier country you know. whether that was Europe China or Saudi. Arabia um you know they were literally. had their land taken from had everything. taken from them right and you saw it.

firstand I saw it firstand yeah there's. a really tough part in the documentary. where there's a woman crying really. breaking down um because of the fear of. losing uh their land she was really. having a tough time with it you know I. that was pretty hard to watch yeah I. mean that stuff's a downer and and and. what's you know and and when I when I. showed the film to to people there that. are fighting back against this what they. didn't see is that it's part of this. like Giant International Trend right.

like it it it really is where you've got. like again like intelligence communities. governments like all like kind of behind. this big push and this big movement. right um and and like you said it's like. when you're when you don't have access. to water because somebody Upstream let's. say has damned the river to grow food. and now you don't even have drinking. water um often times the thing that's. going to get you is your body begins to. just slowly get sicker and sicker from. not having food or good water you just. you pick up a parasite you pick up a.

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tho Chubbies shorts.com support our show. and tell them we sent you don't blend in. with the crowd stand out with. Chubbies so in Africa it's it's even. more prevalent you're. saying yeah and I I think what I think. you know it's it's it does seem to be I. talked to a bunch of African. investigative journalists at this thing. in DC and they saw saw the documentary. and they came up after like dude I've.

been seeing this in my country I didn't. realize it was part of this like giant. International Trend right like it's all. sort of tied in and that's how that was. like the same Revelation that I had as I. started digging in deeper and deeper was. just how interconnected these things are. right cuz like you you know when you say. that like yeah what do you mean when you. say that I just mean like I think the. dude was from Sierra Leon and he was. talking about a big rice farm that had. come in and plowed down the forest and. moved people off their land and then. they were exporting the rice to wherever.

you know a wealthier country and he's. like you know how do I contextualize. that like it's obviously an injustice. right like people have been their their. ancestral land's been taken from them. but like where does that fit in and then. you see oh it fits in that like people. in Arizona are basically dealing with. the same thing maybe not to the same. degree but all of a sudden they're. finding what like what was once theirs. being taken by somebody else I see you. know and I think like I think the and so. that's what I mean it's just like there. is this big low push and yes I do think.

it's probably happening and these kind. of numbers are super hard to get and. this is the only reason I hesitate. anecdotally I would say yeah it appears. to be happening most prevalently in. Africa um but like getting any good. numbers on that like nobody the U you. know like they're not going out and and. and nobody's going out and like. documenting every single instance so as. a journalist I always hesitate right so. like in the documentary you've seen. it we to like just to give you a sense. of what we go through I took every. single fact that's mentioned in that. documentary and I put it into a.

spreadsheet and then me and a woman. who's now a fact Checker at the New. Yorker we went through every single fact. that's in there and then we put three. sources making sure it was true and then. we hired an outside fact Checker to fact. check our fact check you know like like. and so like I always and that's like. that's the value to me of good. investigative journalism is like we're. going to we're going to put in that. extra effort so that like everything is. documented and so you know I love this. format because this is how like when I'm. hanging out with friends this is how we.

talk right and we're like sharing. knowledge and like as humans we sit. around the campfire this is how we've. been telling stories and I love stories. you know um but I'm always like a little. hesitant because I'm like I don't got a. fact Checker behind me to whisper in my. ear like oh Nate you screwed that fact. up and she doesn't have a fact Checker. behind her to be like oh no you screwed. up the fact check under need fact check. you know right so yeah you're just. having a yeah you're just doing your. best yeah you know but you obviously. spend a lot of time investigating it. yeah and what at what point do you start. to go down a trail with investigative. journalism where you're like I've.

already gone too far I have to fluff. this thing up to at least make it hold. the value of the weight that I've. already put into with my time is that a. weird question well I I think or does. that ever happen you know well you made. me laugh when you said fluff. um. uh do you ever get going on a story yes. and you abandon it yes and you're like. there's just not enough here even if you. spend a long time yeah what often. happens man is is you'll be like huh I'm.

this is what happens to me I'm like huh. I'm curious about that right and then. I'll start like digging into that and. that thing that I started digging into. I'll be like oh no actually that makes. sense I you know like I I don't think. the world needs to know more about that. I don't think it's going to make. anyone's lives better I don't think it's. going to change anyone's perception on. how they interact with the world but as. I was doing that like I started seeing. this other thing right and then so then. I start looking into that other thing. and I'm like well that is pretty. interesting but in the process of. looking into that then I'm like holy. [ __ ] look at that thing over there and.

then I'm moving in and these things. can't are are sometimes you know they. could be totally unrelated oftentimes. they're somewhat related and then it's. that thing that I end up really going. after right and so I would never I don't. want to waste my time I don't want to. waste your time and I don't want to do. an injustice to a story by being like. well I spent time on looking into a and. now I have to do something on a because. often times it's just a slowly shifts. into B and then next thing I know I'm. like dude I think people need to would. want to know about. right like I think people should take a.

little break from their lives and lives. are tough lives are complicated we've. all got so much going on I want to like. you know I want to honor people's time. but I'm like but I think C is probably. worth their time right yeah what parts. of this as you went through this did did. it start to like um be like okay this is. something that makes me realize I have. to keep going. here oh I you know with this one I think. it was It was kind of early on because. again man it's like when when you know. before this I'd been doing organized. crime and now I'm doing food and I was. asked to do it and I'm like okay it's a.

food story you know like it's not going. to blow my mind it's like Papa John. almost hisory yeah dude and I was just. like but then all of a sudden I'm like. wait a minute this you're an. intelligence officer for the CIA or you. were and you're like telling me X Y and. Z like that's pretty interesting well. let me go talk to somebody else to try. to corroborate that or get like another. hot take on it you know and and it just. kept building and I'm. like this and then I started see the. stakes right like I but the the number.

of people that it was going to impact. we're talking about like billions you. know like we're talking about you know. when you have Wall Street saying this is. going to be the biggest trajectory when. you have the world economic Forum saying. this is one of the top five existential. threats to our species you start going. like food and water you know and you're. like this is probably worth my time and. a lot of sleepless nights at some point. you just realized I just think this is. this story. this is what can so can I tell you like.

when I when we so we made a film right. and I I'm super lucky because I worked. with this amazing director Gabriella. certh weight you know and she knows how. to tell an amazing story like the grab. the doc yeah just like she made this. thing like an international Ripper right. and and but when we're going out and. we're we're pitching it to the studios. they're all like well what do you want. to come of this and I wanted I wanted. what I wanted to happen when people see. this documentary is the same thing that. happened to me when I started working on. this stuff it shifted my perception of. how I see the world like I fundamentally.

see the world differently now having. worked on this story and so I wanted. people to have access to that same. information because I think when you. begin to when you when you see this and. I don't know if this was your experience. or not but when you see it you're like. oh [ __ ] like food isn't just food food. has become like a weapon food has become. like a power tool for for governments to. control people in other countries like. it becomes way bigger like how yeah how. would we see that start to show up in. our daily. man food prices right go to the grocery.

store right I mean do you remember. during Co when. when they were like oh everybody can. stay at home except people that work in. slaughter houses we got to get everybody. that works in slaughter houses back cuz. we're really worried that there's not. going to be meat on the shelves well. dude as I recall during that. time pork exports to China increased so. the executives of these big meat. companies are like oh we got to get. every back we're worried about getting. meat and then they were shipping more.

meat to China well it might have even. been their um their Farms well yeah they. own they own you know this company. that's in China um that was you know. this deal that was backed by the Chinese. government yeah they they control one in. four American pigs wow yeah can you. bring up that article that we're talking. about if you. can on April 28th 2020 president Donald. Trump issued an executive order invoking. the defense production act to keep meat. packing plants open the executive order. Exempted plants from state and local.

orders to close non-essential businesses. but did not solve plants problems with. sick workers wow it's interesting yeah I. mean it's just interesting. because yeah people are going to need to. eat people are going to need meat you're. going to need people to be able to. continue to eat or they're going to. freak out so even if they're stuck at. home as long as they can get a. burger then they're going to they're. going to keep going till their next. Burger. you're right though I mean you kind of.

like put your finger on it man it's like. it it is like food is that one thing uh. that people want to keep going right. like the Chinese government everybody um. and you know and that's kind of that's. what takes you to the Arab Spring right. like when you saw all of these Middle. Eastern governments getting toppled. right like the Arab Spring it was like. what do you mean the the Arab Spring. well Arab Spring was like a little over. 10 years ago now and it was that period. where you just saw Civil Wars break out. across like North Africa and the Middle.

East and those things never happen is. just like one single issue they're like. super complex people don't like their. leaders they don't feel like they have. hope but increasingly the thing that the. intelligence Community is saying is. driving those issues is food prices you. know like you were talking about food. prices here in the where we were talking. about food prices here in the grocery. store but like Americans man we only. spend about 7% % of uh our income on.

food on groceries right other countries. dud they spend like 50% so whatever. they're making like half their paycheck. is going to to food and so when food. prices go up for us it's only going up. on like 7% of what we're spending on. right right so it's not hitting us. overall as much exactly why do they. spend so much on food because in in I. mean we're just a wealthy Nation you. know and so we have bigger incomes oh I. see so we have larger income so. obviously yeah if you if you're making. $100 a day then that's just seven bucks.

a day where if you're making $100 a um. if you're making $10 a day that's it. then $7 is 70% of your income yep and a. lot of people you know like we're buying. we're buying food that's like finished. we're buying processed food we're buying. things you can like open a package and. eat but a lot of people in these other. countries they're just buying like. Commodities like grain and they're. baking their own bread and so when those. prices like you know basically double um. all of a sudden those people are seeing.

you know 50% of their income almost eat. up their entire income and they can't. feed themselves they can't feed their. kids and I think that's what it comes. down to right like so in the Arab Spring. there was a ton of that there was a ton. of that food prices shot up you know. they went to Historic highs um and. that's sustained and people started. taking to the streets right whole. grievance of issues but this was a big. one um and you saw it move just across. these countries yeah and how was it. alleviated ated how did they like what. kind of catharsis did they get into is.

catharsis the right word or no a lot of. a lot of them just took out their. leaders oh yeah Egypt over overthrew. their leader didn't they yeah that's. right yeah and so you just saw you yeah. so you saw like man you. saw you this and this is the thing about. the 21st century is like that was. probably the first blip that we saw like. that and the forecast is for an. increasing number of those and when. countries Fall Apart because of Civil. Wars often times their people then.

migrate out right and then they put. pressure on the countries around them. because now they've got to feed more. people because now you've got a failed. nation next to you and it became on like. almost like a domino effect wow yeah and. are the forecast saying that there is. going to be like less water that there's. going to be less food like where are we. getting those forecasts from yeah so um. we could pull something up but it's like. like 70 % of the world's population or. some number is going to be living in.

some form of water scarcity by like 2050. it's like a huge number right of people. that are dealing with water shortages. and again like usually you can eek out. enough water for your drinking water uh. but can you do you have enough water to. grow the foods you need to eat or for. somebody else to grow the foods you need. to eat um and so and then the other. thing we're looking at it's like some. places are going to have have you know. are going to have droughts of course but.

then some places are going to have flood. floods and too much water can have the. same impact as not enough water right. like we just saw this in Pakistan where. like their crop was wiped out by this. these massive floods that just kill off. the crops yeah I used to work on a. soybean and corn and cotton farm for a. couple years and um it was amazing how. like water was just I mean you would. stand around and talk about it you would. go look at a radar you'd ask somebody if. they'd seen any water like totally it. was just CRA it was unbelievable how.

that was the biggest thing yeah that was. the biggest thing it was like is it. going to rain is it not how are you. going to manage your crops if it doesn't. and then how are you going to get. subsidized by the government if it. doesn't happen at all yeah that's right. and what happens is in those those. countries that that are dealing with all. these economic hardships these dictor. leaders weren't subsidizing the farmers. right and and what's worse is they were. giving like their buddies access to. whatever better better and so this is. what you see in you're saying in.

Venezuela when you you open the um and. you see that the people who are going to. maintain the uh the status quo of. keeping starving people at Bay are. getting full groceries yes that's it's. crazy how quick you will become the. Gestapo in that moment you know yeah. yeah food becomes the ultimate currency. yeah what else are you going to say I. interrupted you well I was going to say. something similar in Syria where you. know a drought hits Syria and and you. know all these farmers are losing their. crops people are having to move into the.

cities food prices are going up and you. know rather than being like okay the. government being like okay we need to. make sure everyone's taken care of from. what I've read uh was an iner at the. time but it was like Basher was just. giving subsidies to like his buddies you. know and then you just you're building. up this this this this you're just. building up a lot of anger right and you. can't feed your kids it's like and this. is what the when I when I talk to people. that are in the intelligence Community. this the thing they say it's it it's not. when this and this sounds shitty but.

this is what they say it's not when the. lowest income the people that are the. porest can't eat that you see a country. topple because unfortunately those. people have already adjusted their. mental mindset to just being [ __ ] on. yeah it's when the middle class can't. eat people that are used to being. comfortable right people with Honda. Accords yes and then when they can't. afford to eat and when they're they're. having to tell their kids sorry we can't. eat today we got to wait till tomorrow. right those people take to the streets.

[ __ ] yeah yeah and then they overthrow. governments you know and sometimes the. government turns out better and. sometimes the government turns out worse. and people live in violence and. bloodshed for years you know um so it's. yeah and this is kind of the the trend. line that that we're seeing and you. believe it's an overall trend after all. your research and all your digging you. believe that it's an overall trend. that's going to continue it's totally. it's I think it personally I think it's. solvable okay right right I think it's. solvable but it is it is the trend line.

that we are on it that that like if we. don't get into another Lane of traffic. this is the direction that this road is. heading got it and this is straight up. from like the the the the US government. I keep saying intelligence Community. right but there is the odni the office. of Director of National Intelligence. that oversees the CIA the DIA the Nick. all of these intelligence agencies and. the highest level work product they do. is something called a National. Intelligence estimate and they did a.

National Intelligence estimate on on. water in the year 2012 so basically they. came out and the guy who was. spearheading and this is like the. highest level work product the. intelligence us intelligence Community. does said business as usual you know is. going to be a catastrophe right like and. that was their prediction basically yeah. and and then they lay out Solutions like. we can move things right but it you know. it has that's going to have to happen on. an intern National level and like we. look at our domestic politics and we're.

like there's a mess you look at. International politics and you're like. there's a real mess so you know we all. going to keep doing what we can and we. all you know we all keep living but like. but still this is I mean having. foresight is is super important. especially in a time where it's like we. don't even there's so much artificial. site that you don't know what is. foresight anymore you know there's so. much um manipul you just it's so hard to. know what's real on March 22nd 2012 the.

National Intelligence Council which. you're saying is a conglomerate of all. of those the the Nick exists underneath. the odni okay yeah the odni but yeah. release the unclassified report the. intelligence Community assessment on. Global Water security the report. concludes that several regions of the. world such as North Africa the middle. east and south Asia will face major. challenges coping with water problems. and that during the next 10 years many. countries important to the United States. will experience water problems that will. increase the risk of instability and. state failure exacerbate Regional.

tensions and distract them from working. with the United States on important. policy objectives yeah I guess if the. how you barter and trade and deal with. things is going to become a lot. different yeah. um wow you mentioned Africa and you guys. go into a lot in the dock um why why is. Africa always gets screwed I mean since. the beginning of time whether it's the. British coming in or a foreign entity. coming in and enslaving or claiming.

whether it's them enslaving each other. whether it's the Trib that just can't. get along whether it's a government that. starts up and then um sells out like why. do they have so much trauma there yeah. man it's a good question and you know I. always try to operate from like a a. place of historically informed. journalism right because some of these. trend lines are massive and you know. what we saw was that Western Europe for. some centuries just had this intense.

power as they sort of globalized the. world and Africa had a lot of resources. that they wanted um and they went in. there and they grabbed them and they. created artificial boundaries and. borders around um you know that that. that suited Western Europe like Africa. got carved up in territories that suited. Western Europe and their treaties so. that they wouldn't fight with each other. in Europe right and and that wasn't. always the the boundaries that of like. the of the governments and the the. Nations that had lived there um and you.

know that and you go back even farther. than when Western Europe was sort of the. the the international dominant player. right like you look at genas Khan right. genas Khan born in the central Steeps of. Asia dude became a slave then went from. being a slave to controlling like the. entire Mongolian Empire then they went. into China and they took over China then. he pushes East and starts taking over. Eastern Europe and then he drives down. into southern Asia you know the Middle. East dude controlled the largest Empire.

of any human in history right and when. he this is the thing and I'm getting a. lot of this yeah totally like the Denver. Nuggets it's like the kind of in one. person yeah man but go on sorry yeah. yeah and and he gets to Europe at that. time and and I'm getting this from this. this guy Jack weatherford's book gask. Khan in the making of the modern world. he's a historian in Minnesota somewhere. one of those one of those colleges. and when genghiskhan gets to to to. Europe he's looking around he's like.

these people are too dumb and too poor. for me to bother conquering you know. like they didn't even have pants at that. point like pants like pants are a an. Asian invention right like pants came. from Asia at that time in Europe people. are just wearing cloaks like they didn't. even have pants yet they didn't you know. that gunpowder came from China movable. type from China and so geshan gets to. Europe and he's like these people are. too dumb too poor and too ignorant and. he just drove South into the Middle East. people were doing like algebra and. advanced math and like had all of this.

technology right and and then that set. up these trading routes and those. trading routes connected some of these. great Advanced Technologies from the. Middle East and from Asia and they. started working their way into Europe. and then boom Europe has the Renaissance. and boom the Renaissance blows up into. the industrial revolution and then that. Industrial Revolution now you have like. the pope carving up the entire world. between Spain and Portugal like Portugal. gets one half Spain gets the other half. and then they're going down and they're. carving up Africa right and and then you.

just you you you get to where we are. today which is that you know Africa. never had a strong say yeah yeah in how. they were and what went on yep in the in. the in the last few you know centuries. what things did you notice when you. started to explore some of the stuff. happening in. Africa well issues in what sense like I. guess like the ownership like who was. doing the like you say land getting. bought up that that had ancestral value. of course yeah who was doing that like.

who was is it hard to know who was doing. it well often times it's really hard to. trace back who's doing it because you. can be like this Russ it can just be. these layers of llc's and who ultimately. is behind this LLC can be really tough. like I can go there and be like okay so. this is the white South African dude or. white Zimbabwean dude who now is in like. Zambia and he's you know moved people. off their historic ancestral land and. he's doing this like super modern. farming right and and these other people.

that had been there for the families. have been there for centuries are now. like dying right because they don't have. access to even enough drinking water. much less enough water to grow food. right um and I can I can be I can see. that but like then I look at the. property ownership and it's just a. jumble of llc's and that can be pretty. tough um but you know in the film one of. the things where you were able we got. this like Trove of information documents. I mean we see that in some cases it's. the leaders of foreign governments that. are paying essentially mercenaries to go.

in and Gobble up these resources right. and and one of the ways they do it you. know and these these emails that we get. we see they just talk about giving gifts. to the chief right and and and you know. essentially bribes right is how I'd. interpret that and and what is a. mercenary just so everybody knows well a. mercenary is effectively somebody who. can provide military logistics on behalf. half of another. government okay so like how would I use.

a. mercenary well you could use a mercenary. to go into are they good guys or bad. guys oh they can be this is interesting. you brought up Rwanda just a minute ago. and I'm trying to remember the name of. the actress that was going to hire uh a. mercenary outfit to go in like when no. one on the international level was. stopping the Rwandan Genocide uh this. this Hollywood actress wanted to hire a. mercenary group to try to go in and stop. it right like so like she was using it. potentially like she thought of using it.

as this force of good um but so there. there there are these examples of people. wanting to use these types of groups to. like quell violence to bring stability. right to to move food into into areas. that are being controlled by Warlords. right like so you can you know sometimes. people make an argument that you need to. meet force with Force to do good right. and then you also see them being used by. corporations to make deals with. Warlords um you know to extract. resources and those tend to have a more.

deletar or you know [ __ ] create make. life shittier for the people who live. there did you see some of that like what. were some of the things that you saw. like people struggling with oh dude just. feeding themselves having shelter you. know like super basic stuff um super. basic stuff and it sucks it sucks to see. that stuff I don't want to see that. stuff you know and then I got to carry. it home you know and then and and you. know it's like it's that thing they. always say like you you see these people. who have done nothing wrong are just. like struggling to survive yeah you know.

and I go in there as essentially like a. story teller and I'm like you know and. they're like dude like we need food we. need water and you're like oh you know. like what can I what can I do that's not. my role my role is to tell people about. what's happening to you and then I fly. back to San Francisco and I turn on the. faucet and I can drink fresh water you. know and you're like you know so these. are the these this is these are some of. the challenges um going in and H anyways. I went off a little bit but like CH yeah.

I've seen this [ __ ] you know and like. there you know there are stories I've. heard and there things that I've seen. that you know like I I wish you know. wish didn't happen to people and then I. wish that I didn't have to experience. firsthand you know do you feel like. we're doing the same thing in other. countries though the US government or. like us corporations yeah like are we. doing the same thing that's happening. here in other places for sure for sure. yeah so was it all just even out well no. I mean I I would say that it I if you're. like if if if you're looking at it like.

oh China's a bad guy or the Saudis are. the bad guys but you know the US is is. is okay it evens out in that sense right. like we have massive corporations that. are going in and are contributing I. think to this pattern of people who are. living on land losing their land or. people whose Water Supplies are being. taken from them right and and it's. destabilizing the world is like the. short of it and then you end up with a. destabilized world and you end up with. like Mass migration and you end up with. countries being like we don't want any. more immigrants you know and you're like.

yeah but they left because they were. hungry and like why were they hungry. like what was happening to them right. and so you right you're not getting just. immigrants you're getting Starving in. some cases increasingly that is the case. like I there at one point State. Department said the reason you know the. number one reason people were leaving. Guatemala was because they were hungry. and think about Guatemala man like think. about that region of the world what have. they given us avocados chocolate I think. Tomatoes come from that region right. like um what's that thing called when.

you go under the stick or whatever under. the stick the limata or whatever I don't. know. that the limbo limbo yeah yeah yeah yeah. like those countries have given us so. much food like how is it possible that a. country that is the source of so many. like you think of tomatoes you're like. oh Italians must have invented right. you're like no man that came from the. Americas potatoes came from the Americas. chocolate came from the Americas. avocados came from the Americas right. and how do you have now a region like. that where half of the children are.

stunted because they're not getting. enough calories or nutrition right and. so like people are leaving Guatemala. because there's not enough food and. that's crazy because this place is. growing plenty of food so what's. happening to the food it's just being. exported to to wealthier countries so do. you think that we're like some of the. reason for China's low water supplies. because of us no I I don't think that's. the case with China I think China's a. really interesting example right like CU. we manufacture a ton over there yeah. yeah totally no um China is an.

interesting case right man because this. is like I don't think this is well. enough known but one of the greatest. achievements in my opinion of the 20th. century was what China accomplished and. that was pulling 400 million people out. of poverty in like three decades right. like you you you'll hear people talking. about all of the great achievements of. our species you over the last you know. whatever 50 years and they'll be like.

you know we've reduced uh we reduced. poverty and and hunger by this much 80%. of poverty reduction as I understand it. 70 or 80% of poverty reduction in the. world is what China accomplished one. country 400 million people they pulled. out of out of poverty in like two or. three decades gosh they now have the. world's largest middle class right I. think their middle class might be bigger. than the entire population of the US the. challenge there man is that want to eat. diets more like our diet right like in. the 1980s you basically had a country.

full of vegetarians because they. couldn't afford meat now you have the. world's largest middle class and they. want to eat more meat right they want. sausage patties exactly man and and and. to have meat you have to grow more. grains more feeds for the animals it's. kind of an ineff inefficient way to to. develop a calorie and they don't have. enough water to grow enough grains to be. able to feed all of the animals that the. people want want to eat right so they're. doing it over here they're doing it over. here they're doing it in Brazil they're.

doing it across the world oh so they're. doing it in a lot of places yeah yeah. wow probably this might even be one of. the fewer places it's just that the US. is an agricultural superpower right like. we are one of the largest exporters of. food in the world um and this you know. then takes you to like so who are the. other ones and you're like well it turns. out now Russia is and that's not by. accident Putin has built the country up. over the last 15 years to be a food. superpower right right and then you're. like well huh so if if if if Russia is.

becoming a food superpower what does. that tell me about you know the Ukraine. war because you know what Ukraine's been. known for man Ukraine is the Bread. Basket of Europe yeah it it it has for. you know for for centuries been. considered the Bread Basket of Europe. and and when when when the Nazis they. invaded Poland but what do they do right. after that the first place they invade. when they go into US Ukraine for a. little bit of bread exactly and Hitler. said it we need to control food to keep. our soldiers fed and people don't.

realize this but the Nazis had what they. called the hunger plan and by. controlling Ukraine they intended. according to these little known. documents that historians have on. earthed you know from the Nazis they. intended to starve 30 million people to. death wow by controlling Ukraine and if. you're the leader of like Russia right. and you're trying to build a food. superpower right and just below you is. the most fertile soil right and that. that country was deeply aligned to your.

country until like. 2010 right and now all of a sudden it's. moving its way to the West right I was. thinking about going into NATO right yes. Ukraine was yeah and moving in closer to. Europe and that food supply you know and. so that historically that food supply. has been used as a weapon against Russia. right it's been used as a weapon against. others right it's a huge strategic asset. it's Ukraine's biggest strategic asset. and so you think that basically for. water is one of the reasons why we're. why that war has gone on I think all of.

these things have many facets and are. super complicated but I when you're. saying what is Ukraine's strategic. importance and its food production of. food and you see Putin saying you know. like in the film I I you know because I. went to Russia in the film I go to. Russia and we sit down with the the. largest the the CEO of of Russia's. biggest Beef Company he says yeah Putin. came to me he said whatever you guys. need because food and water are going to. give us more strategic power in the.

future than all of our weapons and oil. does right like yeah I mean some of my. fattest friends have the most guns too. to be honest with you because they want. to keep eating I think they just you. know if you're fat and happy you'll. start shooting I feel like and if you're. not happy you'll start shooting so it's. really kind of a yeah right the circles. meet in the back yeah it's like on this. end it's kind of fireworks like but on. this end it's like I need to survive. yeah um today's episode is brought to. you by better help that's right better.

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haven't put it that low but you can set. it to a place where you feel comfortable. I'll get in at around 50 degrees for. about 10 or 12 minutes and that's what. really sets me and activates me I've. done it before podcast to really put me. and um just put me in my body and put me. in the moment you know the positive side. effects of cold plunging are are. countless you can follow blue cubes. Instagram for a chance to win your own. cold plunge this spring and summer. that's right they're giving one away.

They will announce the giveaway soon so. follow them at blue cube baths and uh we. wish them the best of luck um and thank. them for supporting the podcast so early. on That's So I just think you start. seeing like a bigger picture you know. like you start seeing how these things. interplay with each other yeah no I look. that's what I mean yeah that's cuz I I. was watching the documentary I was like. well is this just kind of fear is this. creating fear and then that's why I. wanted to get talk to I was like I was. just I was like is Nate like just.

creating fear here is the director or. they is this just a trend that they're. seeing and is this like something that. they really believe in and notice yeah. dude that's a great question thanks. thanks for that because it is like it. doesn't do anybody any good to just be. afraid right just to like stress people. out bum people out and and and um but no. I mean I think like fundamentally when. when the landscape is Shifting in front. of us and like the most powerful people.

are shifting with that landscape like. I'm a big advocate of the everyday guy. right and I'm like dude we got to. empower ourselves with that same. information you know we have to know how. this thing is Shifting right because. otherwise those people in Arizona they. just see this big farm come in and. they're like well okay what they don't. know is that it's part of this big. International Trend and they're coming. for the water right they don't know that. their own government is is allowing that. which in some ways are nice things that. America does allows you know and that. we've also we've done a ton of like of.

open-handedness you know but there does. become a point where yeah if it gets. back to survival that. um you're going to change your tune yeah. and America I don't know if you'll do it. as a country yeah but you as an. individual you won't have a choice but. to do it right I I I think for for some. people yeah I food prices will probably. continue to climb right and people are. going to have to make like real you know. lifestyle decisions based on that um you. know we'll probably see food potentially.

becoming a bigger and bigger percentage. of our like take-home incomes um you. know potentially you know like that's. the trend line um especially yeah so I. think you know I think I just think it. it information is power and what I'll. tell you is that the most powerful have. access to better information today I. think the the disparity of information. between the powerful and the everyday. person has just grown like we always. talk about income disparity and that's a. real thing totally I get it but. information disparity man it it might.

even be worse 100% even just to go to. accredited news sources online now to. get information you have to pay for it. yeah right yeah even to get what used to. be just a newspaper right yeah you have. to pay for that information so whether. you even believe it it's going to be. true or not to have information that's. even kind of sourced yeah you know. that's put together that's formatted. that's not done by AI um you're having. to pay for that yeah and I hope that we. get back to more of that man because. that's how it used to be when we were. kids right like you you pay of a.

newspaper subscription um right I think. people could decided they couldn't trust. the news anymore I think a lot of that. has occurred in the past 10 years for. sure I think I feel like the news every. time I turn it on I feel like it is. there's some lobbyist behind it there's. some um you know I mean people say big. farm all the time but we have so many. drug ads on our television it's like you. know know it just feel I wouldn't be. surprised if it's compromised that's.

what it feels like well and the News. industry is in a taal spin man I'll give. you my two cents for what it's worth. because I've been a journalist now for. like 25 years some insane amount of time. I can't believe that um but when I. started um as a daily newspaper reporter. like we had a nice big staff man like we. had we had Librarians on staff we had. researchers on staff you know we had. photographers a sports desk a business. desk you know and um and I think I don't. know man was it like there's like a. third as many journalists as there used.

to be right like if there's fewer people. doing anything it's going to be a. shittier job you're going to get a. crappier product right and so and and. and and the trend line that that gutted. journalism wasn't initially that because. I totally agree all the stats say what. you're saying people don't trust the. news like they used to but it wasn't the. trend line wasn't that people stopped. subscribing what happened was is that. newspapers used to make huge profits. from things like classified ads right. like you you know we used to read the. classified ads in the back right like. you could meet a woman or even get a.

adopt a pet get a new BMX bike or like a. dirt bike like your new car like it was. all back there right and that stuff man. that subsidized the journalists and so. of course that went away and that was. like a lion share of the profits right. Craigslist kind of killed that in a way. totally and it's fine a technology is. going to do and like the newspapers. didn't they didn't react in time you. know they lost this big thing and so. like you just started seeing the. industry shrinking and shrinking and now. the layoffs in the last two years have. just been like brutal but the the the.

problem there is man is like I could. quit journalism and I could go become a. private researcher doing the exact same. thing I'm doing now as an investigative. journalist but instead of giving it to. the public I would be giving it to hedge. funds I'd be giving it to super wealthy. people that would literally I'm not. [ __ ] you would pay me four to five. times what I'm getting paid now right. and and and that's actually what's. happening right and so like you you you. have the public who is increasingly just. getting not as good of much information. especially if you're in like a local. news market right like you're not.

getting information people aren't paying. for it there are fewer journalists and. then the wealthiest are paying for it. still and they're getting incredibly. in-depth information right and now. you're starting to see privatized. spaces have the journalists almost on. their side working for them to give them. information that better helps them to. Market to the everyday person yeah and I. wouldn't say call that person a. journalist but that that same like deep. research or investigative project right.

especially in Tech man well I think it's. like you know they had even if you look. at the case of uh the opioid epidemic. right and that there was a document. there was a television show I can't. remember the name of it um all the. beauty in the Bloodshed was a dock that. came out that looked super deep at the. opioid or I can't remember Alex Gibney. maybe on HBO looked at the opioid. epidemic too this one had Michael uh. Keaton okay you know is that a real. person yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I. don't know Hollywood so I don't know. actors and I don't know the space as.

well but yeah yeah they had this there. you go Dope Sick they had this this. series came out it's unbelievable it's. how um it's how the opioid companies pay. like basically hired people that had. been working on the Food and Drug. Administration to come and work for them. so they could work the. loopholes totally and then I mean I'll. just tell you my two cents the reason. that we often know stories like this. like how FDA former employees were then. going is because a journalist went in.

and dug it out and published it right. like these types of fictionalized. versions get written off of like hard. work of investigative journalists and. there are fewer and fewer people pulling. out stories like this and I'll tell you. man as a journalist like my problem 20. years ago was that I was always worried. that some other journalist was going to. scoop the story and get it before me. today my problem is that people are. coming to me with important stor. and I don't have the time to work on. them because I'm already working on. something and I don't even have another.

journalist I can tell them to go to. right like we're just not getting out as. many important stories like that as we. used to because there's just fewer of us. like and and and and there are more. people working for the lobbyists there. are more people working for the pr firms. that are spinning stuff and so this is. we're getting into this really. imbalanced place of information and the. dark time and that's why conspiracy. theories rise I totally agree because. it's like well people are going by gut. people are looking to fill a void Y and. people want some truth I think if you.

don't have truth you can feel it yeah I. think so and and I always say and this. is the other thing man is for me. journalism it's okay so like take a. football right like the the surface of a. football is imperfect right it's why a. quarterback spirals the ball because if. you if you throw the football without. spiraling it because the surface of the. football is fancy yeah it's like. imperfect it just flops around and and. and and but you spiral it and all of. those per imperfections get smoothed out. and journalism is the same way like no.

journalist is the voice of God but when. you've got 10 journalists covering the. same thing you're going to get as close. to the to the obtainable version of the. truth as possible because you have 10. different people that are competing to. get it out they're going to they're. going to check each other they're going. to they're going to point out if. somebody else you know misses something. or screw something up and you get at the. closest possible obtainable version of. the truth now when you just have one. person it's like a football that's not. spiraling anymore it just gets totally. off-kilter and I think we're getting. closer to that and and I think that's.

like in a democracy when we're supposed. to be an informed group of people that. are going to go to The Ballot Box and. vote you know it's a problem if we were. in China it wouldn't matter because the. government's going to tell us what to do. anyway but in a country where we're like. no no we need to be informed so we can. go to vote that becomes a problem how. does that end for us was that football. analogy the dumbest analogy you've ever. heard it just kind of came to me no I. thought it was pretty good okay cool. yeah but I'm also dumb a lot of times so. it's like I wouldn't have asked me but I.

thought it it worked for me all right. cool I'm easily I'm easily susceptible. to just whatever but. um but yeah I wonder what does that look. like for us if we when you get to a. place where you don't. trust I wonder if it's that we don't. trust Authority now but I never trusted. Authority right I never trusted. Authority either but I always thought. there was this level of Integrity maybe. in the distance that I maybe I thought. I'm it's so hard for me to figure out. what I feel like is missing these days I.

feel like as individuals a lot of us are. missing purpose and our purpose is being. um farmed out to technology and um to. Big Co corporations instead of uh things. that are meaningful I think we're losing. Community yes and then that's going to. happen too you have no purpose you don't. have a local newspaper you don't have. like a local place where everybody can. even go meet up people aren't going to. church so there's at that point you're. just a lot of strangers living near each. other I think that's it man I think. that's a huge problem in this country.

and how does that change I wonder you. know like what does the future of that. look like do we just turn into. like these Lemmings just waiting for the. next cheeseburger like you know I I I I. you know I I've done some investigative. reporting on big Tech and um that's a. space you know. like that I I you know like man my. reporting has shown me like things that. just like as a human as a person concern. me you know. like it's like really cool because they.

they become the these beautiful creative. spaces right and and and like as people. that are artistic and like to share. their stories people get on there and. they can connect with communities and. there's all these great things that. happen but I increasingly see those. spaces as a hunting ground for big tech. companies to Target specific people and. take them down and I'll give you one of. the examples I'm talking about is that I. did this investigative Pro Pro where I. got this. investigation um where I got internal. emails from inside of Facebook and I got.

you know documents from inside of this. company that was like a a Social Casino. company it was essentially like you. could play games on your phone that. looked like a slot machine and you would. never win any money like you just got to. understand it you would never win any. money. back and if you used up all your coins. that they get in the day for free you. would then have to buy more coins MH n. something like 99% of people never pay. for coins it's like 1% and then it's.

something like one tenth of 1% drive. like 97% of the revenue at that company. and those companies that again you can. never win your money back were now. generating more Revenue than the Las. Vegas Strip billions and billions of. dollars so who were the people that were. spending money well I found one of those. women she was living outside of Dallas. she was living modest middle income she. spent. $400,000 buying virtual coins that she.

could never win back so who does that. right well it turns out that a certain. slice of people very small slight have a. type of brain that can get super fixated. on this like they they compulsively. can't stop wow and the technology. companies Dei devised algorithms they. use artificial intelligence where the. CEO of one of these companies said the. first time somebody opens that app and. starts playing they can identify them.

from all of the little habits and. immediately mark them as what they would. call a VIP or a whale right and they. would put them down this path where they. would actually get a special. representative like an actual human who. would call them this woman outside of. Texas who lost 400,000 when her mom died. they sent flowers to her mom's funeral. right like they immediately identify. that you have this type of brain that's. going to keep spending money that you. can't a you can't afford and B you. you'll never get back and they just. Target you and they push you and they.

pull as much money out of you as they. can that's that's what I see man I see. this like I see now like people are. spending their time on there but people. are watching you spend your time and. they're building your behavior and. they're looking for your weakness and as. soon as they can exploit your weakness. man they are going to grab everything. they can wow it's really the de it's the. devil it's what you would think of as. the devil you using yourself against you. even I mean look what if your own shadow. could [ __ ] pick your pocket what.

would your life be like you know what. I'm saying like I mean maybe that's a. crazy thing that's almost as bad as your. football thing. but uh but no bro it's the it's the dark. arts it's like the algorithm learning. you and learning you and learning you. massaging you and all that matters but. is it is it for profit or is it for. control I don't understand guess it it's. probably both I just don't understand. how that behooves anybody like who.

closes their eyes at night and was. like yeah dude those companies that I. just talked about went from nothing in. like 2009 to 2010 to being billion dooll. companies and they were owned by a few. dudes who started them up like it. behooved those dudes those dudes are. killing it I I found one of the women. who worked at one of these companies who. was pushing this woman outside of us to. spend all of this money right and I got. on her Instagram that girl was just. flying around the world living it up.

Egypt oh look how cool I am now oh look. at me and now photos in front of the. Sphinx now I'm in Italy eating in. Tuscany right right living this life and. in the meantime she's just encouraging. people to lose their money wow and can. we name these people or is it kind of. private information well I can you know. I I mean the my I wrote my story Susie. Kelly is the woman outside of Dallas um. that's see product Madness is that the. name of the company that was uh were. targeting I want to pull up the story to.

make sure I was getting this right. because this is the challenge I have as. an investigative journalist I misspeak. just a little bit I can get sued get. sued yeah for sure we can get sued as. well and so I always want to be accurate. right and so you know we can pull up the. story and because I did this story now. what was. that six seven years ago um these are. companies where you can't win really no. you can't win your money back then but. you people have like figured out that. there's a type of person with a. behavior um that can that it's basically.

def a definitive victim right here it. says social casinos now use behavioral. analysis software to quickly identify. people who are likely to become Big. Spenders behaviors like increasing your. bet or playing frequently are signals to. the companies and they target these. players with heavy marketing and label. them Proto whales as broons explain to a. room full of game developers back in. 2015 remember correctly that guy Jose. Bron was like a Stanford Graduate you. know uh in like computer science or.

something took that knowledge you know. they pair it up with uh like essentially. like behavioral scientists psychologists. and then they just start getting better. and better at focusing on these people. who they can extract from yeah man it's. like you're up against it and sometimes. though there's a part of people that go. to gamble like that there's a part of. them that wants. to some. sometimes I think that there's a part of. us when I'm amazed that we don't stand.

up sometimes as a population right I. don't think we always know that's the. problem man I don't think we have the. information to know this story like how. many like that to me that story is. mindblowing that that's going on right. CU you yeah how many people are gambling. on their phone are looking at playing. solitire and then it turns into a finite. yeah right um or or how many of us are. just aware in which like the patterns of. ads that we see are like oh because they. have your behavioral profile right like. you're getting a pattern this way or. your news feed looks this way or you're.

getting content this way um and how is. that affecting you right like how is. that affecting your everyday decisions. and in Susie's case it was affecting her. everyday decision to the point where she. was lying to her husband she was taking. out if I recall correctly second. mortgages on her homes and spending. $400,000 that she did not have I had the. emails or the the messages back and her. forth with her and the rep from that. company and she was begging them to cut. her off. I've spent $4,000 last night please. don't let me cut me off oh Susie no. Susie we love you we'd hate to see you.

leave here's a billion free coins you. know if you still want to quit when. you're done with that it's a drug dealer. well that's what's interesting to me too. it's like when would we stop allowing. certain things you would think like even. pornography right like I've fallen. victim victim to it obviously and um a. lot of people use it right but it's like. at a certain point I recognize oh I'm. not using this safely right like I go. use it when I'm feeling down or when I'm.

agitated or something it's like and then. um just like it's bad we know it's. probably bad for us right I'm not. disparaging any of the people that use. it are that that perform it I have. friends that are in the industry it's. not anything against any person but I. wonder if overall sometimes as we know. that it's hurts us or like they just had. that documentary on asley Madison right. yeah and it was so strange you had this. couple um pushing the company and.

they're married and the the husband was. the owner and they're saying well we. don't cheat but you might need to right. life short have an affair just like it's. just evil it feels like I mean like why. would we allow that like it seemed like. if you took a vote amongst people would. we do we want this in our lives right. that most of them would probably say no. but if you are tempted with it if it. comes in like if a cat comes on your if. you tell me hey man do you want a free.

cat I'll tell you dude honestly you can. [ __ ] off right I'll tell you straight up. but if a cat keeps coming on my porch. dude I'm G to go out there and touch. it you know what I'm saying yeah like at. some point even if I might be like man. [ __ ] this thing I might be out there. petting it at the same time yeah so it's. like you know and is that our. responsibility or is that now the cat's. in your pocket carry the cat around in. your pocket with you all the time I. guess you can get a baby. cat um but yeah it's like I guess I.

often wonder like is that just our. responsibility and or is there should. there be. a yeah I guess you can't depend on the. government but you would think as a. society we wouldn't want these things. does that make sense to you no dude it. totally makes sense and I think part of. it is like these things are being. developed in in San Francisco Silicon. Valley wherever faster than like we can. learn about them and adjust to them yeah. the government's always a fears behind. yeah yeah yeah and and and and again.

like I mean I don't I mean obviously I'm. biased because I an investigative. journalist but like this is the role. that I think we're losing in our society. by as journalism keeps going away is. because like in that story that that we. were just talking about with Suzie and. and the social casinos those dudes would. sue me if I got it wrong right like if. if like they are going to ask for a. correction if I got something wrong. right and they didn't right in the and. Susie and a bunch of other people got. 155 million bucks back from them really.

yeah [ __ ] yeah right so you know and and. and like I don't have it out against. anybody man I just want good information. out there in the public yeah you know. like it empowers all of us even if like. dude it could be the same piece of. information and from that same accurate. good piece of information you might. decide that A's the best course and I. might decide that B's the best course. but to me that's a democracy because now. you and and I are hashing out whether. A's better or B's better but we're. operating off the same good information. right yeah and if you're saying that.

other that that information is also. becoming like what's valuable and what. isn't and that there's better. information out there that obviously. corporations can afford that they can. afford the researchers now to privatize. them and put them uh to work for. themselves yeah then yeah for the. regular person it just gets it gets. little interesting dude I'm never going. to have good enough information to tell. you who are the people most likely to. compulsively spend on something right. those companies do yeah but if I if I'm. given enough time I can probably find.

out what the companies are that have. that information that are targeting. people like Susie and I can at least. make us aware of it so we probably as a. society will never have access to that. we probably don't want all of us to know. who the compulsive gamblers are right. but at least we want to know who the. companies are that are targeting people. who have that behavior yeah right or. targeting people for whatever their. weakness is right because we all have. them man we all have our weaknesses. right yeah and they can all just be it. can they can almost be mathematically. equated now are mathematically equated.

now and they're attack and then that's. used to attack us I mean that's the. scary part it's. like it's like. um I want to say it's like our. reflection is. using the fact that it's our reflection. against us I don't know I can't know. what I'm trying to say um no you know. what it is dude I think you're right man. it's like they're creating like a a a. data profile like a virtual one of us. like evil Kirk from Star Trek right and.

then like that person's telling them our. weaknesses right it's like you're. looking in you're like God that's like a. a version of me they've created and that. person is ratting me out and they're. coming at me with that dude's info yeah. right I mean it and it's getting. stronger and better that technology yeah. and then it also makes you a little bit. upset at yourself because you're the one. feeding into the same thing that's um. you know beckoning you with things. that'll end up being painful to you yeah. and I look I have a stoic philosophy on.

these things like I I I I believe that. we can't control you know what happens. outside of us but we can control how we. react to it right and I think this is. some of like you and I were talking. about cold plunges or like you know just. like how you can reset like and it's. super uncomfortable but like you can. control your body and your body's like. dude I do not want to go in that cold. water and you're like no no I control. you I'm going to dip you in there for 2. minutes cuz I know that when I get out. I'm going to feel better. right and and part of it is personal. responsibility part of it is being like. I control me I'm going to set the phone.

down right I'm going to delete that app. right like we do have personal but we. also shouldn't be targeted in that way. right it's crazy to let somebody. continue to be targeted it's like at a. certain point you would stop a pedophile. from coming near a child you know at a. certain point if somebody had a hatchet. and somebody was just trying to sit. there and eat a sandwich you would stop. the hatchet guy from bothering the. sandwich cheater yes you know it's like. yeah could could the sandwi Jeter get up. and leave the restaurant but maybe the.

solution is just getting the hatchet guy. out of the restaurant right yeah right. yeah instead of making this huge Halo. like now Every Sandwich eater can only. eat sandwiches in this air or yeah it's. just cuz some sandwich is good man you. don't you just want to sit there and. finish your sandwich yeah yeah dude yeah. in the end it comes down to our own. personal responsibility for now that's. it I think that's a piece of it and I I. also think we should be demanding better. environments for ourselves and our. children I don't have kids but you know. I always bring in kids because people. seem to be more responsive you know but.

I think kids are living yeah and they're. living in that environment right and I. don't know that that's you know I think. we just need to be more proactive about. what are the environments we want as a. society right you know and but how do we. get this because it feels like everybody. has kind of the same things in mind but. we never seem to get them and it feels. even more like the Voting is coming from. the other side like that it's big. business like you know like Tech is the. new fossil fuel I've said that for a. long time where it's like that's the.

thing that's power it's like you know. they control everything it feels like. they have a lot of information man they. do they do um what's Trump's information. then I. wonder well I I think like people like. the the if all of us have better. information right like again like we can. we can push like the part like the. documentary man like you were talking. about it earlier like you know like I do. think there's stuff in the documentary. that's going to freak people out freak.

me out when I learned about it right so. at the end of the day it's the point of. it just to freak people out no it's to. be like you know we have no National. Water policy in the United States do you. know that we have no National Water. policy so that means that uh people from. anywhere or any country whatever can. move here and use our water to grow. their crops it's is that true or no it's. true in some places like different. states different Counties have different. laws right but we have no we have no. National Water policy that just says. like wait a minute wait a minute water.

is a big deal let's make sure that we're. not using it for just like any old thing. let's make sure that just like as a. general L of thumb we're using it for. like the best purpose right right and. and let's help States and counties and. these places come to the decision what's. the best purpose we just don't other. countries do right other countries have. put that in place but if water's such a. v solid like a if it's so important for. the future wouldn't that be one of the. first things we would do probably but. this goes back it's like I don't know. that people know I don't know if just. like when I go to when I you know when I.

go to family reunions I don't know that. all my family knows and a lot of my. families they're like Farmers right but. I don't know that they know that that. this is the trend line that's happening. right and so you put this documentary. out there not to freak people out but so. that we all just have this like Baseline. of information right and then we can. push our elected officials who and and. and man you you hear about all the. different lobbies and all you know that. push the government around around the. agricultural Lobby is one of the most if. not the most powerful Lobby in the. country and and and part for really good.

reasons man you screw up Farmers like. you can really jack up a country like we. need we need to support Farmers growing. food's great right and they should have. a voice amen you know but at the same. time like communities that are around. the farms and others and and who's. coming in and who's controlling it that. needs to make sense too right and so it. needs to be a conversation and until. people have good information it's tough. to have a good conversation so whether. or not we're talking about tech and like. people targeting you because they're a. big technology company and they know. that you're going to be compulsive about.

this one thing and they can extract. something from you whether it's like how. you choose to behave or how you choose. to spend or whether it's like you know. foreign company foreign you know. countries coming in or Wall Street. coming in and pumping out water in. places that really need that water right. there you know like we just need good. information yeah yeah because it the. days are over where people have anybody. else's best interest lot of over like. it's where companies certainly don't cuz. they're not an individual yeah it's a. spreadsheet they're thinking with a.

different yes they are they're thinking. it's a spreadsheet trying to have a. brain yes and so like how if you're. China right and you now have like some. of the biggest Sovereign wealth funds. you know which is what does that mean oh. man it's it's crazy CU you know I have. friends I I grew up with some of them. got Advanced degrees from college and. some of them barely graduated high. school I mean I was somebody that barely. graduated high school but you know they. didn't go to college right and and so. like I have a huge spectrum of of people. I love and some of them will tell me. about like the Illuminati the Illuminati. are controlling things I'm like dude no.

but go look at Sovereign wealth funds. right Sovereign wealth funds are. countries like China that are pulling. together these huge pools of cash. trillions and trillions and trillions of. dollars and then can they can use that. strategically to buy things you know to. drive the markets how they want now here. in the United States we just believe. that the profit is how everything so. like oh if you can make more money doing. a than b then you should go do a because. that's how our system operates but China.

goes no no we want to create the most. jobs we can for the country and. therefore we're going to take all of our. assets we're going to try to create the. most jobs not the most profit but the. most jobs right and so then what happens. is you have Smithfield Foods one in four. American pigs and you have a Chinese. company and they go like we don't care. necessarily about per say driving the. maximum profit right like our government. is saying to us that we need to go. overseas and buy up food and water so. we'll pay you a 30% premium over the.

share price well for the American. company that's like 30% premium over the. share price like I have a fiduciary. responsibility to my shareholders like I. have to sell the company like I have to. give you guys the company otherwise I. could actually legally get in Jeopardy. here for saying no to that offer right. because I'm I am I am legally obligated. to return profits to the shareholder. well the Chinese company is operating. under a completely different system. right and so that's where you begin to. see gosh this probably super in the. weeds but that's where you begin to see. like this international power play and. like you're talking about like where the.

US is so focused on profits China's like. cool you're super focused on profits. we're focused on the future and we can. manipulate you because you're super. focused on profits oh because if they. own a fourth of the of the industry yeah. or or they they just know like the. American company's always going to do. whatever is most profitable and and and. we don't like so we can buy that you. know like. they they know how our system works and. they're getting better at manipulating. that system is like right out of the. gate when I started looking at that's.

you saying so instead of this of this. American company saying hey this is an. American company let's keep it here. let's keep it American it's part of like. you know it affects our um GDP all these. sorts of things um they just think oh. for profit and China knows that so it's. like let's just pay more and we'll. definitely get it that's exactly it's a. wrap that's it because the way that the. American company's built their. shareholders would get upset if they. didn't. if they took a vote the shareholders. would like why didn't you do it we would. have made dividends or whatever not only. why didn't you do it but we could sue. you and probably win if you didn't.

return us the max profits and so China. has China has Sovereign wealth funds. which are literally trillions and. trillions of dollars of pools of cash. whose money is it theirs their money. individuals or the government the. governments yep and the government can. decide how to allocate that right and so. the you know if if the US had that you'd. always be allocating it for whatever is. going to make you the most profits. China's going to be allocating it. potentially for whatever gives them the. most political strength whatever makes.

them the most powerful country it's very. different and that's what Sovereign. wealth funds are and they've become huge. they're like a as I understand I. wouldn't talk to this professor this. academic at Stanford who's one of the. foremost experts on the country on these. things as I understand it's a fairly. they're fairly new the the Middle. Eastern countries uh Saudi Arabia uh. Qatar UAE they also have really big. Sovereign wealth funds China has got. really big Sovereign wealth funds. surprisingly Norway has a really big. Sovereign wealth fund um but they can.

use these things strategically. especially against a like a profit. driven country like the US wow so it's. crazy that to think that being. profitable could be your weakness that's. interesting. right yeah wow the world's largest. Sovereign wealth fund as of December. 2022 was China Investment corporation. managing assets reaching around 1.35. trillion us where do we rank in that. pull up like the top 10 list of. sovereign wealth funds Norway Qatar GIC.

the one we just talked about National. welfare oh no China China Investment. corporation and tamc that's Singapore. public investment fund could be us but. who. knows oh it's Saudi Arabia huh so those. are the Big 10 biggest Sovereign wealth. funds so those can really somebody's got. to have a list for how much assets each. of them have that that 1.7 trillion. seems small to me but we're not even on. the top 10 list we don't we don't. operate a sovereign as as far as I know.

the US doesn't operate a sovereign. wealth fund like this because it it's. not how we think got it. yeah yeah you start to yeah you don't uh. you don't think about how perspective. and. mindset um affects how an entire country. operates really no the United States. does not have a federal Sovereign wealth. fund but several states do these funds. are usually smaller than International. SF swfs and can serve different purposes. for example the Alaska Permanent Fund. Corporation established in the early. 1980s has roughly 67 billion in assets.

and was created to ensure that Alaskan C. citizens benefited from oil extracted. from State lands wow so that's some. forward thing and that's like Norway too. norways is very similar to Alaska where. it's like they they they are an oil. wealthy nation and so they created a. sovereign wealth fund um to be to. benefit the citizens oh that's smart. Texas also it says has two Sovereign. wealth funds including the Texas. permanent School fond which was founded. in 1854 and manages 46.5 billion in. assets to benefit Public Schools wow.

that's pretty incredible yeah just to. think that they had that forethought. yeah yeah totally and they're going to. think maybe I'm going to own the land. the schools on just different things. like that yeah and then so these foreign. countries have these massive pools of. cash that they can use strategically. yeah it start gets interesting man you. start like seeing the the the the the. chest players on the board like moving. in different. ways what states are um. are looking out for their land what. states are kind of at the head of the. Forefront were you able to notice any of. that uh off the top of my head you know.

well so like I think Iowa has a law that. that foreign companies uh can't own. Farmland in Iowa it's off the top of my. head and um but. like is it you know like the question is. is like does it really matter if it's a. foreign company or a domestic company if. they're doing good by the local people. right right like ultimately in that like. who cares like are you doing well by the. local people is there enough water there.

are you creating jobs like you know is. it like people local people prospering. like that's like on of at the end of the. day like what people are going to care. about right right like I think what. becomes dangerous is when you see these. things that are just like highly. extractive to the to the detriment you. know of the local folks who are seeing. their water disappear um who aren't. seeing like a lot of job creation you. know like right there's no return on it. for them yeah right and especially if. it's their space you know I even pulled.

up on that Saudi Farm I I remember I. think I pulled up visas and they were. bringing in uh workers if I'm recalling. correctly from the Philippines you know. so they'd be like well we're creating. jobs and I'm like man you guys are. pulling Visa so you're bringing in. workers from the Philippines to work on. your farm yeah you know like yeah you. probably have yeah you probably have. Farmers right in the area that would do. it yeah so um yeah so these things are H. and Stu there's so. many tricky ways out there yeah so when. you look at like places not having.

enough water right America has a lot of. water totally yep and a lot of land and. a small population okay so we're. probably in a really good space we're in. a good space right yep what places. aren't in good spaces and we're in a. good space except for like these like. Regional examples right like places in. the west and the Southwest places that. are going to get potentially a lot. hotter you know um so I I got these. classified cables answering your. question like what places aren't in a. good space I got these classified cables. and I'm from uh the US Embassy that had.

G cables what does that mean like uh. diplomatic cables that the state. department was sending back from its. Embassy in Switzerland back to uh the US. government here sometimes that stuff. goes to like the CIA the state. department other other but cables what's. the term it's paperwork or information. it's like a report they'll send back. yeah got it um and uh and so the the. some folks from the US Embassy in. Switzerland had gone to to the the. headquarters of nestle and Nestle is. like the world's largest food company. and the chief Economist at Nestle sort.

of gave him a tour and like a. perspective from the world's largest. food company about how screwed up. everything was and they talked about the. regions that were going to get hit. hardest by not having enough water and. so that's like China um it was like. India the Middle East but it was also. the western United States you know like. the western United States is in a pretty. tough spot when it comes to having. enough water to keep doing all the. things they're currently doing um and so. um yeah and that was like the hot take.

from Nestle was. like you know forget about it that time. it was like the the it 2009 it was the. Great Recession and Nestle's just like. forget about it that's that's going to. resolve itself the world is running out. of enough water to feed everybody right. yeah and so do states start to plan. ahead you think some of them would I. think some of them do these things like. water people will always tell you water. is super we local all right and so some. counties some regions within States and. some states themselves are doing better. than others and some countries are.

definitely doing better than others just. in terms of like planning ahead you know. um and and it is solvable man that's. like the thing with with a lot of the. issues that we face you know like we can. we're a super smart species you know. like we've we've done a lot of stuff we. could still do a lot of stuff we just. have to move off of the trend lines that. we're currently headed on you know and. those trend lines are more like me me me. instead of us is that it or is it like. cuz is there enough water for everybody. uh there is enough water to grow enough.

food that everyone in the world could. eat not even like today man which we. what are we 7 billion people or so like. there's enough water to grow enough food. to feed 10 billion people you know like. it's not just a population issue it kind. of goes back to what I was saying about. China where it's like they just now. they're just wealthier man and they're. eating more meat and and Nestle in that. in that classified cable said like if. everyone in the world ate his as much. meat per capita As Americans do we would. have run out of fresh water in the year. 2000 wow right and and I'm not a.

vegetarian I'm not a vegan right I'm. just like this is what the world's. largest food company is saying you know. and um I know people love beef and I. know people love steak you know and like. it's they but like that's nuggets all of. it but when it comes to like how can we. shift how can we take some personal. responsibility to putting us in a place. we want to be that's one area we can. look at and and it's not even saying. like you need to become vegetarian or. vegan it's just like how much meat do. you need to be a healthy human right and. you got people with obesity and heart.

attacks you know and all these issues oh. you got people damn snorting meat out. there you know you got some real yeah um. mammal perves out there you know people. who will just cook anything that. wandered up on their porch even and eat. it and won't even share with their. spouse either I I I had a buddy that had. a T-shirt and this is in San Francisco. so he definitely he definitely pissed. people off put his shirt said uh meat is. murder delicious delicious murder oo. just trolling people yeah that's.

definitely definitely people love. it um well you do have businesses like. um Bill Gates is starting like a beyond. meat is that his company or no I can't. remember if he invested in that one. there's like yeah beyond meat impossible. Burgers yeah I think it's impossible. workers maybe yeah a lot of those guys. got really they got funding and again. those were like that's a way to replace. meat with a less water intensive meat. substitute you know something that. tastes like meat right yeah right so.

that's one way that people could. preserve water probably we still have to. grow the yeah it just requires a lot lot. lot less water to eat a grain than it. does to feed enough grains to eat an. animal got it yeah and what about other. methods that people you hear about like. uh. desalinization you hear about cloud. seeding yeah I'm not sure what other. methods they are I cloud seating is very. expensive yeah and I don't know as much. about cloud seating and I remember like. one of my buddies he he learned I was. doing this that I moved off organized.

crime and I was looking this you got to. look at cloud seating and I was like. dude that's some conspiracy [ __ ] you. read online and I looked into it I was. like oh no people really do cloud. seating like I think the ski resorts. were doing cloud seating I think the. Israeli government was doing cloud. seeding um but yeah I think it's. expensive it it hasn't really found a. practical application as far as I know. this isn't my area of expertise like d. diesal I'm more familiar with cloud. seating is a weather modification. technique that improves a Cloud's. ability to produce rain or snow by. introducing tiny ice nuclei in a certain.

types of subfreezing clouds so you have. a cloud that's already there and I guess. you then it looks like just fire ice. particles into it and precipitates the. rain out or something 4H hour operation. a 4-Hour operation that seeds 24 clouds. can cost around $5,000 wow so people. could have rain or something if they. wanted to have like a Noah's Art party. or like a um um like a The Perfect Storm.

if they wanted to do a perfect storm. reenactment of that movie um per acre. cloud seating operations can cost around. 40 cents per Planet acre or $10 to $15. per acre foot for additional water. that's in Utah well that's actually not. you know this is not my area of. expertise but $10 to $15 for an acre. foot of water that's a lot of water and. that's a that's a really low price um. so if that you know and that's in Utah. specifically right so they've G to have. their own like climatology their own. hydrology like um so it can be super.

specific but $10 to $15 for an acre foot. is really cheap for. water yeah because you start talking. about desalination plant and now you're. talking about $2,000 per acref foot. really yeah so that's very expensive. yeah and like we're growing tomatoes. typically with like $50 per acre foot. water an acre foot just it's a it's it's. actually super simple it's how if if an. acre foot is the equivalent of flooding. an acre of land with one foot of water.

okay yeah the global Cloud CD Market is. estimated to have a valuation of $131.5. million in 2023 over the forecast period. from 2023 to 2030 it is projected to. experience substantial growth with an. estimated compound annual growth of. 5.8% by 2030 the market is expected to. reach a value of 194. 4 million so it's. getting getting more popular they're. saying this is a market insights. website so if I don't know if that's.

legit or not but what else does it say. anything else on there here's an article. right here not since not since. Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman. Emperor in 800 ad has the American West. been so dry a recent study in nature. climate change found the period 2 to. 2021 was the driest in 22 years in more. than a millennium attributing a fifth of. that anomaly to Human cause climate. change H Lake me and Lake po have. reached their lowest levels ever. triggering unprecedented cuts and water.

allocations cloud seating operations. have also expanded in water stretched. regions outside uh let me see within the. past two years Idaho Utah Colorado. Wyoming and California have expanded. cloud seeding. operations so they're trying it yeah and. it I mean I know I remember the ski. resorts doing it and um people are doing. it I I I wonder how much water. ultimately you're going to be able to. squeeze out of the atmosphere um by.

shooting these minerals up into it but. yeah yeah and how effective is it like. if you if you spend the money to shoot. the water to put the particles out there. but Cloud cing should not be thought of. as a response to Drought experts agree. for one in a drought there are likely to. be fewer seatable storms that's a good. point and when there are storms even the. estimates from cloud seeding companies. themselves show the practice increases. precipitation by only around 10% in a. given area that might be worth the. effort when every acre foot counts but. it's not going to end a drought across. an entire region so you have to have a.

storm already there I see yeah so that's. kind of interesting a super interesting. you can't just completely create a storm. not yet anyway right right it's like. terraforming the Earth at that point. yeah yeah that gets ra that gets yeah. when it becomes like air Sims or. whatever it's going to get weird and and. what about desalinization it's super. expensive okay because like basically it. it takes a ton of energy like. electricity to basically push water. through what's just like a giant filter. and pull out the salt uh or whatever it.

is that's contaminated the water and so. it ends up the water ends up costing you. know a hundred times what you know. farmers can are paying for it now and. often times it makes crops unaffordable. so it's good for like drinking water. dude people use Dell all the time for. drinking water and and for some. industrial use but at the price uh it. becomes very. difficult to create food um with that. expensive of water are some countries. saying you can't buy land here some. countries are like that right for sure.

right yeah yeah they you know and and. and and they're saying you can't grow. that type of crop beer because it. requires too much water yeah right um. there there people are other countries. getting really selective um as to how. their water is going to be used and what. what it can be used for it's so tough. for us to because we've manipulated so. many other markets and done things. ourselves you know you would go Upstream. from your neighbor. and split that river that split that. Creek that's headed your way if you had. to and that's what that's what you're. seeing and that's you know people are.

just seeing like the river their Village. relies on all of a sudden now is. diverted and it's a it's for a palm oil. Plantation right um and that's more more. what you're seeing in Africa and places. like that you mean yeah all Central. America like guatemal I think has one of. the largest expanding um palm oil. Plantation in the world yeah what do you. think there's a. way a solution like what do you look at. is well first off I think people just. need to know what's happening just like. bottom line yeah bottom line and then. and then dude we just need to empower.

and push our government to putting. forward like the best Minds you know I. think like right now basically the laws. that we have on the books for water. around this country were are from like. the 1800s yeah right like when water. when there were few people there was. water was plentiful yeah no Garling. water in church and stuff you're like. that's that shouldn't be in the. uh in the um State Doctrine you know. yeah and and now and now water's tight. and there's a lot more people and so we.

you know they need to go back on the. books and and revise the laws to be like. okay so what do we want our water laws. to look like in this place given the. realities we have now in the 21st. century and not the 19th century right. like it's kind it's like all this stuff. man it's kind of common sense but we're. just not getting it done yeah and it's. like how is it tough to get it done when. um a lot of the great minds it feels. like are working on the other side of uh. popular.

sentiment Fair statement yeah how do you. mean like which like that the best. researchers and a lot of great um. journalists and lobbyist even. are working for bigger companies um or. in the private sector more to Garner. information and learn information to. give that to the private sector to. better do doings that they're doing does. that make sense it does I think you know. journalists are always going to try to. give the information to the public. there's just fewer of them and yeah I.

think the the private sector has a lot. more resources to manipulate you know. the markets to what they want right. which oftentimes can be quarterly. profits or annual profits um and we need. our government to be like okay okay okay. but what's in our long-term best. interest right like what do we want for. for your for your kids and your. grandkids um and I think that's where. where we really need to be pushing folks. yeah and some of the some of the. companies are doing it not because. they're beholding to their stockholders. who are the very people who are wishing.

they wouldn't that companies wouldn't do. this sort of thing that's really crazy. isn't it I mean dude you you you seen. the duck and it's like in the duck man. it's like so Holly Irwin is is the. County supervisor in Arizona that we. follow and what county is that in it's. in laa County okay right and that's like. a deeply Red County you know Holly is is. a republican like a Conservative. Republican and now she's she's fighting. for what people might be like that's an. environmental issue no she's fighting. for the water of the country of the. county right and she's working with.

Democrats which is great like you got. Republicans and Democrats coming. together finally to like work on. something and come up with Solutions um. but what I showed to Holly was and she. didn't know this you know she's like oh. the Saudis have come they're taking our. water you know and I said but Holly look. here this is your pension fund from the. state of Arizona look what it's invested. in farm right over there that's shipping. hay to China and the UAE that was bought. with your pension fund money like it's. your own pension fund your retirement.

fund is is helping export the water that. you need to stay to be here and for. people to retire here but how I'm not. following that yeah right so like how. they use the money so they had a pension. fund yeah but the Saudis came in and. bought the land so that's a separate one. right so you got the Saudis are there um. but there's another big farm um owned by. uh. a company out of North Carolina and the. Arizona State Pension Fund gave a bunch. of money to that to IFC this company out.

in North Carolina and then IFC rented it. to uh uh a company from the United Arab. Emirates that's controlled by like the. the brother of the ruler of the country. the the that's controlled by a guy whose. like job it is to control National. Security in the country and so they're. shipping it overseas and so like at the. end of the day Holly's pension fund you. know she's like fighting so hard to keep. the water there in her County so her. people can stay there and then her own. pension fund is financing a deal that's. shipping water overseas right because.

it's more short-term profit than it is a. long-term Vision yeah and so how do you. try to align those things how do you how. do you align with Holly wants money to. retire on Holly wants water for her. County to live on for the next 100 plus. years right. wow interesting man um what were some. other there was some other stories that. I was investigating that you had uh or. that I was researching that you would. looked at um one that I found was. interesting was this Somali pirate. scenario yeah isn't that interesting so. this was a guy from the intelligence. Community who told me this you know and.

U wasn't the only person that told me. this but he just said look like Somali. pirates like we think of them as like. Pirates like they took to the high seas. you know like but what they were they. were fishermen they were just fishermen. along the coast and foreign trollers. from other country countries I think his. example was primarily China were coming. in and and just depleting the fishing. stocks right so these guys that are on. the Somali Coast they got pretty basic. systems for fishing yeah and then these.

big badass boats come in with these. super deep Nets and they just scoop up. all the fish so what do the dudes do the. same thing you and I would do if. somebody was doing that to us we come. together we sit around we have a drink. we're like dude how do we stop that and. we're like dude next time one of those. things come through we're going to go. out there in our shitty little boat with. some guns and take it over and tell them. to stop doing it and we create like a. little small Coast Guard well that. sounds like what they kind of did right. and so then they have a little Coast. Guard and they're trying to fight back. against these trollers and then they.

take one hostage and they're like dude. you guys have been taking all our fish. give us money and we'll give you your. boat back because you've been taking all. our fish and they do right and then. they're like well that kind of escalates. because maybe we should get a bigger we. should hijack a bigger boat next time. because now we don't have any fish like. we we're not selling anything we can't. buy our kids books we now they're in the. boat abduction business yes right and so. that's how these things evolved it. started some dudes just being like we. just wanted to Pro protect our fishing. stock right to being like now we're. taking over huge oil tankers and. demanding and then and then what end up.

happening then the oil tankers hire. mercenaries or private security. corporations to come in oftentimes. former like Special Forces guys or you. know guys that have that have a. background working for for a national uh. military service and they come in with. guns and they're blowing everyone up and. you're like these dudes in the beginning. of this story these dudes just wanted. their fish right they just wanted their. food supply yes which is so ironic. because it's really the same other same. thing we're talking about it is man it's. like basic they just wanted to eat yep.

it's super basic and when they did when. you're not eating two months later you. are a pirate yeah it turns out man if we. solve like something super basic like. just making sure everyone around the. world has enough food we're going to see. because this the other thing is like bah. Haram again I mean I could go on these. stories forever man what is boam it's a. terrorist organization um in Nigeria. in that in that region of the world well. that was where Lake Chad was and if you. look back on maps satellite maps of Lake. Chad like years ago it was this giant.

Lake and now it's just like a pond it's. shrunk way down because people have been. diverting the rivers that flow into it. for farming fields and the people that. lived there that were fishing out of. that it was a huge Lake uh they lost. their livelihoods and then people start. getting pissed they start getting. radicalized people are hungry then like. some some people with crazy ideas start. being like well you join my group I'll. feed you people are taking from us all. of a sudden you know just like and it. just spirals man and then you just end. up with these crazy groups that are. abducting children that are blowing.

things up and like the beginning like. the the origin of that story was like. people got thrown into [ __ ] by not. having their basic necessities met like. food and then things spiral out of. control right a little like Mad Max kind. of style you know I mean it could get. really weird everywhere yeah so that's. what like that's what we're hoping. doesn't happen right um but then uh you. know it's life it's always gone on. society has always gone on in some form. or other whether we end up in tribes or.

what you know yeah it's like that's. Humanity you know you start to get this. idea of what humanity is based on your. own childhood and things you've heard or. and also the safety that we feel in. America don't you feel like we've lost. our tribes our community though like. everyone's got their little like 100%. suburb they don't have to interact with. anybody anymore and like 100%. everybody's just like. like yeah and it's um I feel it's like a. country of loneliness man I feel like. half the problems we see is just because. people feel isolated and lonely and.

depressed and they're not like they're. not like in a community anymore they're. not seeing the same people every Sunday. or they're not going out like dude I. play ice hockey right I play Ice Hockey. and those dudes are awesome and I am so. lucky to be able to go and see that same. group of cool dudes and just play hockey. and have that community and like I think. a lot of us and so much of our. communities around what going out to the. bar and getting drunk and like I used to. drink a lot and now I think alcohol is a. shitty drug right like I think it's bad. medicine like you know like I think I I. I view like you know a lot of this stuff.

I think they should be viewed medically. and yeah it's just like sports piss. almost really you know I mean yeah I. don't drink I mean I prefer cocaine. probably but that's not even that good. for you and it's like I think um yeah I. definitely feel you though it's like. where do you meet up with people I mean. I go to recovery meeting so I've see. people there all the time so you have. like some semblance of group. yeah but yeah it's like everybody gets. their food delivered a lot of times the. family it's just you're staring at a. phone your food's getting delivered.

you're not going outside and it's like. how do we reins like a stronger. community in the US right because like I. okay dude I have a little cabin in a. teeny town like a 100 people and those. people are across the board politically. on the Spectrum and it doesn't matter if. somebody's voting one way and somebody. else is voting the other way if. somebody's like house floods people are. going to show up yeah right people are. going to help each other out like that's. that's what it is to be a good person. it's not who you vote for or what you. necessarily like your political ethos.

it's like dude did something bad happen. to you does your community come out and. support you that's community and that's. what I feel like we're losing right. we're so distracted about I feel like. Petty crap right now that we're. forgetting it's time we just need to. show up for each other yeah I wonder. what if you're going to see more of an. influx towards um like religious. Services even not even entirely for. religion. ofun one things I always about church. was just see kids play together you're.

all sitting there in peace even it's. like if you if you're just in your own. thoughts like thinking of something. bigger than yourself no matter what your. denomination was or whatever or yeah. yeah so I grew up my dad was a Lutheran. pastor and uh and and I you know I don't. I don't go to I don't go to church. anymore I don't follow those beliefs. anymore but I miss that Sunday get. together because you would show up and. you know there would be like a tax. preparer there and you knew you'd see. them every Sunday and you could rely on. them there was a mechanic that was there.

and you knew that they'd show up every. Sunday and you would rely and they. weren't going to screw you and there was. a sense of community like in that. Community were people that had. vocational trades across the board and. you could trust each other and you could. know each other and you could ask them. questions you could get knowledge you. could share experience you could carry. each other right like showing up to that. one place every week and having that. Community that's what I feel like so. much is what that's been lost I feel. like it'll be a few generations and I. feel like there will be a rebellious. generation yeah that will throw off the.

VR headsets and masturbate naturally if. there's a way to do that into the ocean. or whatever and reclaim what it feels. like or at least go in search of what it. feels like to be human yeah man that's. what I I think would probably happen and. are you talking about this with other. buddies too cuz I feel like I'm having. this conversation more and more With. Buddies is like dude how do we create. Community again like like I said it can. be as simple as like finding a good. hockey team right and just like cuz. after every game man it doesn't matter.

if that game starts at 10:30 p.m. at. night and we're not in the parking lot. until midnight or like 1:00 a.m. dudes. are going to stand around and drink a. beer and just catch up have a blast have. a nice time it's the same after any real. get together people always kind of Mill. around see what's going on you and one. buddy or two guys might stay late if one. of them's having a problem and they'll. talk about it if everything's cool that. year out of there kind of like one of. the first couple of guys out but you're. joking around yeah I think that thing is. um I feel like we would find ways you in.

the end I feel like you just believe. enough in something that we can't create. outside of us that's inside of us that. would lead us to victory in some sense. like some human Spirit or something that. will prevail it always kind of feels. like that I think it just feels like. we're down maybe two rounds to one right. now yeah I feel like it's tough for that. human Spirit to connect through a phone. yeah I think it's hard man and I think.

there's a lot of like I have to be doing. something all the time there's a lot of. factors in it it's interesting to think. about um before you leave I know you. worked in organized crime you mentioned. that a little while ago yeah and was you. do what you do in it bookies or what was. it pretty close man it was a lot of. Casino work it was a lot of Asian. organized crime I went over to maau uh. which came like hey that's by Hong Kong. huh I went there once Hong Kong or maau. I went across the ferry there I went. both of them that's a fun ferry ride. right yeah it was nice dude some lady I.

think was either flirting with me or. trying to tell me I had something on my. shirt or. something yeah it's a wild place man. it's it's uh they do more Revenue than. Vegas does now it became massive when I. was there it' become just like in a very. short period it' become massive um and I. was over there because we were looking. into how what the US government largely. considered was organized crime people. connection to Triads Etc were working. inside of the casinos to bring money. from mainland China that could be. gambled in maau because that time there.

was like I think it was a $5,000 cap. right like this was the law like you. could only bring 5,000 from mainland. China into maau but then you'd go and. You' go to the casino and people are. betting like 500,000 us per hand you're. like well how is that money and it was. basically this informal credit Network. which is like we know you're good for it. in China so we'll spot it for you in cow. right but if you don't pay your debts. you're probably going to be found burned. up and shot in your car wow you know and. so like that was the ecosystem and then.

these big us casinos were operating in. that ecosystem and so how does all of. that and so I went over there and like. my job was to try to get these guys to. go on camera to open up to me and to. tell me about this operation and as one. of the US you know Casino bosses a white. guy from America said to me is like he's. like man that dude who's Casino you're. staying in for the 6 weeks You're Here. is known if people say stuff he doesn't. like for hanging them out their window. you know and like that's where I was. staying and um yeah it it was it was.

gosh that's a rough start yeah yeah and. so it was um so you just down there. looking when we say Triads what does. that mean Triads are like a British word. for what they would describe as Asian. organized crime networks um and and the. Triads actually have this super. interesting history they go back to. martial arts um to The Shaolin Temple. and to like all the way back to like the. overthrow of the emperor man it's like. it gets like that's why the the Triad. guys are known for being such badasses. with regards to martial arts like I. still get calls from federal prison.

pretty frequently from a guy named. Raymond Shrimp Boy Chow and shrimp boy. Shrimp Boy Heen yeah and uh dude just. crazy badass martial arts guy um but uh. yeah he'll call you know he he and I I. went to him because I knew I was going. to maau and he hadn't been arrested now. he's now he's in prison doing I think. multiple life sentences um yeah but uh. but that's just a that's a different. world man cuz you're operating um in a.

world of violence right yeah that's how. they solve it there if you yeah that you. know are punishable by real violence yes. exactly yeah and it's kind of organized. so it's difficult to go in as an. investigative journalist into that you. know and so the first thing I'd always. do is just tell people right away like I. an investigative journalist I'm looking. into this you know that's my role and I. don't necessarily need to push people. for answers right away but like I don't. want anybody thinking that like I'm. sneaking around behind their back or. like trying to be transparent about it.

super transparent so there's a different. level of respect if you come in like. that over there oh yeah and I do that. with everybody like as a journalist if. I'm working on a story I always identify. myself as a journalist right away you. know like this is what I'm working on. this is my interest you know and then. over there it's like we don't got to you. know deal with that right away you can. just identify me as a person you know in. in parts of China that I've traveled to. one of the things people want to do when. they're going to get into business with. you is they just want to get hammered. with you yeah they just want to get. hammered cuz they want to see what kind.

of drunk you are are you going to be a. total dick when you're drunk or are you. going to still just be like kind of. funny and happy and upbeat and like. honest or what kind of drunk are you um. and so like there are just different. ways and so sometimes you identify who. you are and then you're just kind of a. human for a little bit just like just. hang. out yeah I never wanted to be Chinese. that much really I mean I haven't I I. haven't not wanted to be it but I. haven't I'll be honest yeah I haven't. really wanted to be it I guess I would. be willing to be it but I don't I would. probably have to think about it a lot.

more than I have. recently um why do Chinese businessmen. insist on getting you drunk that's. interesting um in a culture where. relationships can make or break you in. business getting drunk with a potential. business partner is often viewed as a. crucial way of solidifying that. relationship and showing that you are in. fact friends huh. [Music]. um let me think say anything about the. liquor uh anything more about booze.

alcohol is a very long tradition in. Confucian Society confucious who. advocated only eating at meal times and. not in between made an exception for. wine he said only wine drinking is not. limited so confusion really like to have. that he like to have a little sip in the. daytime huh no no shade. no shade before you go have is there. have there been stories that you wanted. to go to you just didn't have the time. oh dude that's all the time that's like. the thing that haunts me most right now.

um just like really important stories. that people come to me and they want me. to look into um and it's just like it's. super tough to find the time you know. there's just too many things that I. would love to be able I wish you know. yeah so it happens yeah and who funds. like investigative reporting who funds. like guys like you and your so I work at. a nonprofit called the center for. investigative reporting right it's like. a super old nonprofit it's been around. since the 70s it was a bunch of Rolling. Stones reporters when Rolling Stones.

used to be based in San Francisco um. they ended up moving it to New York and. a bunch of the reporters didn't want to. move to the east coast they liked San. Francisco and one of those guys was one. of my mentors LOL Bergman who I don't. know if you ever saw The Movie Insider. with alpacino but alpacino was playing. LOL LOL was the one that got the. documents from you know inside the. tobacco companies that showed like the. they knew that it was a carcinogen they. knew it was addictive and they were they. were hiding and and not being straight. up with Congress so I work at a. nonprofit which is a super fortunate.

place to be because we're not profit. like you know I worked on this. documentary that documentary could make. a gazillion dollars and I'm not going to. make a die more right it's just not like. what the drive is right you know like. and so um and it's also because. investigative journalism is impr. profitable um letting yeah no dude. letting me spend a year and a half. diving into like is Facebook and this. social media company targeting your. weakness it is not profitable um and so. we have to get foundations and others to.

give us money to give us the time and. people people donate to us to give us. the time to look into this stuff so I. can just share it with the public it. would be hugely profitable if I wanted. to take that my same skills and go work. for a hedge fund I could make four or. five times what I make right um and but. but people are. willing to to to pay me to do it it you. know like a modest salary like I I'll do. it man like cuz I love stories dude I. love stories I love like I used to sit. and and I was a little kid and I used to.

tell my my grandma my mom's mom just. tell me a story from your mind you know. and she would just wax and and and now. meeting people you know like I just like. to hear their stories like what's their. background where' they come from you. know it doesn't have to be like totally. revelatory it's just like we're all so. complex we're all interesting you know. but when I can spend time diving into. something like Susie Kelly story where. like this crazy technology company. identified that her brain had this. weakness and targeted her then I want to. spend a bunch of time and share it with. people right because we know it's not.

just happening to Susie yeah I mean and. it's so sick that that would happen it. was almost if you saw someone who was. disabled and somebody someone had a bro. broken leg and someone kept kicking a. minute you know yeah I and and and. that's and I dude I I think that's a. really good analogy and then like they. were kicking them because it was making. them money right yeah and you're like. what are you doing how you and I don't I. don't get it I'll just tell you that. like fundamentally on a personal level I. don't get it because I couldn't do that. you know like yeah that's the thing. that's tough it's like and then.

sometimes I feel like am I normal or am. I the. weirdo that gives a [ __ ] about stuff you. know what I'm saying is that ever. crossing your mind yeah dude it does it. does um and I don't know I think I think. whatever I I think we're all broken in. our own way and whatever my little. broken way has made me an investigative. journalist um but whatever it feels fun. though to be be Paul Riv or whatever. even though somebody said he was trying. to meet men and that's the only reason. he was going through town or whatever. that's what I've heard but um but to be. that kind of guy who's like you know.

trying to you know like yeah we've. always loved the underdog dude we you. know Underdog that's who you you want. the underdog yeah you know yeah yeah. like everybody's like everybody wants a. nude picture of like um Pam Anderson or. something you know I wanted a new. picture of Aaron Brockovich on my wall. you know no kidding yeah. yeah that was a badass that uncovered a. lot of stuff and got a lot of good out. there in the world and pretty dimey too. in her time I'll say that and I think.

it's a compliment Aaron but. um what else do we have anything else. that I wanted to talk about I don't I. feel like we covered a really good bit. Nate so we can people can donate to the. Center for investigative research. reporting yeah so the center for. investigative reporting that's a. legitimate company yeah man it's a. legitimate nonprofit and uh you know. people can even just check it out we got. a we got a a radio show we do that's. just all investigated journalism really. yeah we print you know we work with. other folks and we have the documentary. out I mean at the end of the day dude. just trying to get good information into.

people's hands and like call to account. like people that are targeting other. people you know yeah if you don't have. food yeah you'll get so caught in the. moment you don't even have a chance to. look ahead at that point it's going to. be moment to moment I mean that's all. right dude that's totally right so then. it's a wrap then then you're just trying. to get food for you and your family and. you start doing weirder and weirder. stuff stuff and even people that you. know I do you ever Rec cor MC McCarthy. he wrote like the road yeah dude he. wrote some real No Country For Men yeah.

strange stuff and I love it but like um. the road he basically breaks it down to. like are you willing to kill if like if. it comes down to it would you kill. somebody else to eat them right and like. you're a good person if you're willing. to just like be like damn I'm just going. to have to starve to death cuz I'm not. going to murder somebody else to eat. them or are you going to murder somebody. else to eat them like kind of bifurcates. humanity along that along that track uh. and people get weird man people get. weird when the basic necessities aren't. there yeah you'll say that you wouldn't.

right but you would also say you would I. wouldn't eat out of a dumpster there's a. dumpster outside right now I would not. go eat out of it but give me three days. without food right if you're about to. eat a dude in Best Buy right like yeah. you're getting eat out of that. dumpster oh. yeah yeah that's what's crazy you would. eat that Ali Sashimi baby you'd eat. whatever out of there yeah for sure and. he'd be You' be stoked and D you know. like yeah those are crepes that's what I. keep yelling those are. crepes I'm going to go forg in with you.

I'm going to be in just garbage you be. like dude that's a crepe and I'll be. like really I'm in I think you got to. trick yourself dude it's all Crepes bro. yeah yeah we're both just going to like. mentally just redesign whatever garbage. we're eating like dude that's a wet. napkin homie what are you talking about. brother don't tell me that yeah got to. be nutritional value that's a damn crepe. um Nate howon thanks so much the grab. it's coming out on Netflix no it's. coming out on June 14th in theaters yeah. and then people can rent it online and.

then uh um and then it'll be on one of. the streaming Platforms in the fall okay. so the grab it's coming out on June 14th. in theaters um yeah it's really. interesting man just thought-provoking. to get me to start thinking like yeah. what are because you just think oh. that's just a farm in my neighborhood or. you just think like oh um that's just. the way things are that's just the way. things go you don't sometimes see like. maybe the um chessboard that's being put. together or that's already been you know.

the plays that have already been played. um Nate haverson thanks so much for. being an investigator and for spending. time with us hey Theo thanks so much man. yeah you bet man now I'm just floating. on the. and. leaves. Cornerstone oh but when I read that. ground I'll share this piece of my life. found I can feel it in my bones. [Music].