Dr. Max More | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #404

we've got some new tour dates to. announce. we've added a show in wichita. october 11th. the october 12th show is sold out we. will now be there tuesday night october. 11th wichita kansas at the orpheum. theater october 13th in omaha nebraska. at the holland performing arts center in. october 14th denver colorado paramount. theater we have two shows that night. we've added a late show.

get your tickets at theovonne.com. t-o-u-r. we want you to go through that link that. way you're getting um. accurately priced. because you go through uh side links and. stuff you'll get priced out. so uh we look forward to seeing you at. the return of the rat tour i'll be there. baby gang i want to let you know that we. have new gang gang merch. it's out there baby get those hitters. we got a couple different colorways my.

mom likes them. she wears them when she's out on her. route. so i hope you check them out they've got. white. and they got pink and they got baby blue. if you're feeling like a baby or if you. got the blues or if you don't and you. just damn well like that color check. those out and more at theovonstore.com. today's guest is a man of science. he has a doctorate in philosophy from. ucla. and he's most known for his work in.

cryonics. and if you're wondering what cryonics is. well it's basically that he freezes your. body when you die. in hopes that they will be able to bring. you back to life in the future. it's a fascinating world to learn about. i think you're going to love it i did. we had a great conversation about life. and death. and the afterlife. today's guest is dr max. [Music].

[Music]. [Applause]. dr max moore do i call you doctor is. that oh i insist no no no.

okay okay um. so yeah you were saying you didn't sleep. that good last night. yeah i don't know what happened it was. uh i get i get problems with congestion. and and um i've got psychic nerve damage. so sometimes my foot is numb and i had. both of those last night and uh i took a. sleepy pill which shouldn't last more. than four hours and that didn't work. after an hour and a half i took another. one and that was probably a mistake. oh yeah that's always when you get that. double up yeah but it shouldn't. shouldn't have kept me asleep at that. time so i was going to get up at 7 30. get some work done and then i get the. call it's 10 o'clock and i go oh my god.

so i wish i could have around about uh. 15 minutes or so 20 minutes well we're. glad you made it in man it's interesting. that you didn't get much sleep but that. you're kind of like the eternal sleep. guy you know. like um. i just want to preface for our audience. so. people always like talk you always hear. about like living forever people are. always like i'm gonna live you know i'd. love to how do we you know and people. are always like well you can get frozen. you know you know you can get frozen. like um you know they always say. different people that are frozen and.

like kirby puck it's frozen or. um you know walt disney's fro you know. there's that company. right you can hear you can always hear. that right people always hear that just. like in like uh. just human interaction societal chatter. but that's actually what you do. that's your world that's what i do i. will have to come back to a couple of. things you mentioned by walt disney. about freezing okay uh some of those. stuff but yeah that's what we do. cryonics right bionics not to be. confused with cryogenics okay so let's. start there let's start there so what is.

cryonics so we can get it cryonics is. essentially the preservation of people. at the point of legal death not the same. as biological death uh and to very. simplify the process that we can go into. it's the preservation of people at the. point of legal death at extremely cold. temperatures minus 320 fahrenheit uh in. the. hopes that in the future and we're. talking about decades to a century or so. in the future we may have the technology. to fix whatever killed you in today's. sense uh revive you and bring you back. so you can carry on living at the most.

simple wow. wow. bo so yeah you're the guy that like yeah. i want to have an iou from i feel like. you know um and so what is cryogenics. then what's the other side of that and. there's some water too yeah there's a. bunch of cryo terms so cryogenics is. simply the engineering of low. temperatures okay so lots of people use. cryogenics you know chip companies use. liquid nitrogen to cool at their labs. that's cryogenics uh you know freezes. that go below pretty cold temperatures. colder than once we have at home that's. cryogenics uh the editor of the. cryogenics magazine wrote an editorial a.

couple of years ago complaining that. people keep calling cryonics cryogenics. because they're different things ah so. this is a cryobiology which is simply. the study of the effects of very low. temperatures on living things uh and. then this is crowd preservation so. there's a lot of these crayons okay a. lot of cry yeah so cryo preservation. though this is an important one cryo. preservation is the application of very. cold temperatures to living things now. this is important because if you think. about it there are millions of people. walking around today who are. cryopreserved they were just embryos at. the time in vitro fertilization you take.

an embryo you cryopreserve it you keep. it at liquid notion temperature wow. so there's a lot of those freezer burn. babies just running around on the planet. there's a lot of there's no freezer burn. but yeah they were cryopreserved uh some. people have corneas or heart valves or. skin that was cryopreserved so that's. something we can cry preserve and we can. bring that back today unlike human. beings as a whole which is a more. complicated issue. wow so so but the world that you. facilitate basically or have facilitated. is in cryonics right.

and you guys are the company. that. when someone i guess registers with your. company they want to be they want to. take that long shot they're playing the. long game they want to be frozen yeah. the basic idea is that someone uh in. almost all cases someone makes these. arrangements way in advance years or. decades in advance we very rarely take. people who call us up at the last minute. because we don't be seen as taking. advantage of people for one thing when. you're not thinking straight at the end. of your life. plus it's actually legally risky because. maybe the relatives are against the idea.

so people generally sign up well in. advance and fill out all the contracts. and make sure we understand what they're. doing they have to make the right. financial arrangements because obviously. this is something that costs money and. if we go through this whole thing and. don't get paid it's going to threaten. the organization right so all that has. been put in place and then at the point. when your body gives out i don't want to. call die because that's not not really. what's happening we'll get into that. it's the are you actually dead or not. because i don't think you are but your. body gives out your heart fails whatever. something critical goes uh in an ideal. situation we're right there at the.

bedside and we can begin within seconds. of legal death being pronounced and do. you have to wait for someone to be there. like does a coroner have to show up or. like at least you know kind of smart. policeman or something to say hey yeah. you guys are good to get in there. they're dead generally no um. we hate those cases when you have. coroners or or medical examiners. in most cases you just wait for a doctor. to declare legal death uh i think in. some cases it can be a special kind of. nurse but legal death has to be declared. and it's very important to understand. how that's different from other things. now but you know coroners or medical.

examiners that's a disaster when they. get involved because you have to wait. for them to arrive which could be an. hour or more and they're slow so i mean. they're dawdling they take their time. yeah and they have like gods they have. complete power it doesn't matter if you. have a religious objection they can do. it anyway and they often will and that. can be a disaster that can be as bad as. taking the brain out of your head. slicing into pieces uh and then shoving. it back into your stomach which is as. nasty as it sounds. it doesn't have to be that bad uh we've. had a lot of success in i mean they will. autopsy if you're driving a car you have. an accident they're going to autopsy you. okay slow it down a little bit for me so.

i can pay yeah i am yeah i'm i'm so. you're okay so you have. so the corners and those kind of guys. can be a hindrance it can be a hold up. so you want to be already involved with. the presumed patient that you're going. to freeze you want to be already. involved with them and hopefully there's. like a medical per there you know at the. end of their life with a doctor or. they're in hospice. or hospice someone can. someone can pronounce pronounce them. legally dead and then you guys can be. there right and right then you guys.

start. what do you do like write like. do you give them a couple minutes to. kind of like be like with the lord or. whatever do you just get right in there. we get right in there. ideally i mean we're not always able to. get there before needle death is. pronounced we want to get there as quick. as we can it's not essential but it's. certainly better so ideally we're at the. bedside the doctor says i declare you. legally dead okay and let's just go into. that for a second before we go on to the. procedure because it's really important. when they say i i declare you legally. there what does that mean exactly does. it mean your whole body's dead all your.

cells are dead no. it can't mean that because people donate. their organs all the time right so all. these things are still alive just. something critical has failed and in. fact many times when you're declared. legally dead they could actually. resuscitate you that's why people have. dnr do not resuscitate orders because. they're saying please don't resuscitate. me because i'm just gonna be miserable. and horrible for a couple of hours and. then fail again right wow so it's very. important that legal death is not the. same as everything suddenly dying that. doesn't happen i see so it just has to. be legally dead and then there's still a.

lot of life going on inside people yeah. so that's when you guys get in that's. when we get in there and what we do uh. try and keep it relatively simple. because it's a complex procedure. basically we'll take the patient move. them from the hospital bed or the. hospice bed into an ice bath we'll cover. them with ice add some water we have a. device that circulates that icy slurry. around them to accelerate the cooling. process and what temperature is that you. put them in well it's just yeah it's. just ice water so okay we don't want to. go below freezing at this point because. that would damage the cells we haven't. protected them yet so um we're going to. put icy water this starts circulating.

we'll put on a mechanical cpr device to. start pumping on their chest and a. respirator to take over breathing so. we're actually restarting circulation. and respiration you might say why are. you doing that this person's dead well. as you said they're not really dead in. any interesting sense and we have to. preserve the viability of the tissues. just like someone donating an organ or a. kidney we want to keep it viable there. you have to keep it viable for several. hours while you send it across country. yeah when i was young my sister got a. liver transplant when i was younger when. we were kids. and she um.

yeah i guess they had to move the organ. pretty quick and then get it in there. yeah they don't last that long anyway. yeah sorry i don't know why i went on. that tangent but um okay so you have the. body now. when you're when you're well just. there's a bit more to go but when you. apply that process do they ever come. back to life in that moment no and. that's what the next thing next thing. i'm going to get right so sorry. don't don't dumb the gun yeah no no. that's a very important point though. because that could happen you're quite. right to think about it that is possible. theoretically again because just because. they call you legally dead doesn't mean.

everything is stopped right so uh once. we do this once we do the cooling we're. also applying various medications we. have a series of 10 or 12 medications. the first of which is propofol now i. used to have to explain what propofol is. but since michael jackson most people. have heard yeah yeah that's that party. yeah he did a little too much of it yeah. he did a lot i guess uh there's two. reasons for that first of all let's move. this mic over a little bit on you sorry. how's that just this way a little yeah. there you go okay okay um there's two. reasons yeah michael jackson did it he. uh he definitely.

yeah if he was still alive he would be. selling the drug. that's right now. the reason for the propofol is twofold. first of all it slows down brain. metabolism and that's very important. because the first your metabolism is. running the first of things are going to. fall apart so we want to slow that down. the other thing is it will prevent any. return to consciousness. which is possible as we've said it's. unlikely but it wouldn't necessarily be. a full return to consciousness like hey. what's going on guys it could just be. some kind of sense of oh i feel really. cold and unpleasant so we want to.

prevent that completely so that's why we. give that as the first medication. wow so that's the one that's going to. cut off any chance of a real somebody. popping back to life. but at that point they've been declared. legally dead so they're so societally. you're cleared and then they've already. chosen that they want to be frozen so. they've dialed in. so then at that point once you get the. propofol and it slows the brain. metabolism yeah is that the same as like. a metabolism you have in your stomach. and stuff yeah it's just it's just.

biological metabolism in the brain so. we're actually slowing everything down. but the important part for us is the. brain because that's the most important. thing and we should talk more about that. because some people just want to. preserve the brains and we can. understand that yeah yeah i've heard. that man look these are the rumors these. are the things people are saying that's. why i'm glad i'm sitting here um with. the savant of afterlife man um okay cool. so we got the body you got the propofol. in there so we've got a bunch more. things to put in there we're going to. put in again i won't go into all the. details of it but various other drugs to. uh stop the blood from clotting for. instance to maintain blood pressure like.

an antifreeze or something not yet okay. that's antifreeze right so anticoagulant. okay exactly yeah the anti-freeze stuff. will come later oh damn so there's a. bunch of things we put in based on the. research we do to again at this stage. people in the hospital go oh and i i get. what you're doing this looks very much. like donating organs you're trying to. keep them as alive as possible while you. transport them somewhere else so this. problem makes perfect sense to people in. hospitals okay and at this point are you. and i you had a video you pulled up zach. is that. yeah we actually uh we found a video on. the alcor website kind of talking you.

know going through this process if you. does this help us at all max. yeah it's probably one of my max if you. want to maybe walk us through this sure. i think it's one of the videos i did. about 10 years or so ago. this is some generic pictures of people. in hospitals. so yeah that's the railway there you can. see you know you've got a respirator you. get artificial oh okay i'm moving the. patient into a nice birth here okay this. is what you just told us about yeah okay. so that they added the bed into the ice. bath it's a little different than what. we do now but it's basically the process.

gonna cover the patient to nice. in the ice path we use today we actually. circulate the icy water which is more. efficient than just packing the patient. in ice like that. yeah got it yeah but there it is you. know we really want to start the cooling. because. there's actually an equation that tells. you that if you drop 10 degrees c in. temperature your metabolism will slow. down by 50 so if you can get down. three lots of 10 degrees so you've. slowed down to a half a quarter an. eighth of the speed which means you've. got eight times as much time to. transport the patients wow so they said.

that's why they call organs when they're. transporting them too so you want to get. them cold quick yeah so here they've. arrived at the alcohol facility the. surgeon has been called in and um i'm. assuming there's a whole body patient. they're going to open up the chest and. what's called a median stenotomy. basically just cut open the chest okay. uh they're going to access the major. blood vessels of the heart. this is still working on the surgery. part. so this is all taking place above. freezing it's important to understand we. haven't gone below freezing at this. point so here they're connecting up. these tubes are basically connecting up.

the patient's vascular system their. blood vessels to our pump and chiller. system. and what we're going to do over the next. several hours under computer control is. to pump out as much of the blood and. intracellular fluid as we can and then. you can see basically the perfusion. machine that's doing the pumping it's. going to take as much blood and other. fluids as possible and replace it with a. kind of a medical grade antifreeze okay. and do you save the blood and stuff that. you pull out no we don't need to say. that like that's something that's easily. replaceable we do that all the time even. today.

um so we're replacing with that well the. medical that's me talking about it okay. so the medical grade antifreeze or. cryoprotectant as we call it. um we actually use the same. cryoprotectant that's being used in. research right now for human organ. cryopreservation now we talked about how. people try to donate the organs and yeah. you have to get them from here to to. whatever state the person's in hopefully. in time and it's a lot of them don't. make it in time and so we lose tens of. thousands of people every year because. they can't get the organs in time so the. goal is and this is very relevant to. what we're doing and there's a lab right.

here actually in california that does. this uh not too far away. the goal is to take organs and crowd. preserved them. just like we do hold them down at. extremely cold temperatures you can keep. them for you know for months or years if. necessary keep them in a hospital bank. and then. rewarm them and then as the patient. needs them they're right there you don't. have to worry about transporting them. you could save many tens of thousands of. lives a year and we're on the cusp of. doing that right now the company's. actually achieved successful. freezing or actually not freezing we'll. get into that basically freezing of.

rabbit kidneys re-implanting them and. having them function well and. re-implanting in the same rabbit are. different right the same one okay yeah. but do they have the can you go to a. different body yet like with that with. that sort of thing because what i'm. hearing you say is that at hospitals. well it can go into different you could. go on a different one yeah but then. you've got issues of yeah possible. rejection the more different the. creature is although that's something i. think we'll we'll figure out pretty soon. we're getting some good progress there. but what you're saying or what i'm. hearing is that. you can take the organs out of someone.

or some someone. and save them preserve them right at a. hospital yep hypothetically this is what. we're getting close to. and then if someone was in the hospital. and needed an organ they would be able. to take one and put it in them exactly. right and so just to emphasize we. already do this not with organs because. organs are more complex we already do. this with things like corneas heart. valves skin. um obviously eggs sperm embryos so. people say oh you this chronic is crazy. because you can't unfreeze something. well you don't know what the hell are.

you talking about of course just think. about it for a minute of course we do we. do this all the time it's just the. difficult part is actually the rewarming. and the more complex the tissue we're. talking about once we go from a tissue. to an organ it gets difficult that's why. it's the cutting edge today and going. from an organ to a whole body that's. something we can't do today. right but are you really gonna say if we. can't do it today it's impossible. yeah we went from cigarettes to vaping. we went from biplanes to landing on the. moon yeah we went from the unicycle to. uh. i don't know what nothing i mean.

unicycle was kind of a piece of [ __ ] but. um i mean we've done so yeah we continue. to do some amazing things you know so i. agree. so. sorry i have so many ways to go in here. um should we finish kind of going. through the process because we're. getting yeah this is better the less i. talk the better. i'm serious no so i mean yeah it's. something you have to kind of really. know the details of so at that point uh. after several hours of replacing the. blood uh we finished what's called. perfusing the body we replaced the blood. with these fluids oh wait i didn't have. one question yeah sorry so the organs.

you took them out of that no no you. didn't the organs are still in we don't. need to do that no no okay not for what. we do okay that's the other kind of. research but okay you've just gone into. the. into the main arteries and stuff and. started to take the blood out and put in. the antifreeze exactly okay that takes a. few hours because if you just throw it. in there at high concentration when the. patient's still relatively warm it's. pretty toxic to the cells so we have to. start off with a low concentration and. gradually wrap that up over time over a. few hours so it's all very well. researched to optimize this at the end. of that process we can then drop from.

just above freezing it's about plus. three degrees c down to about minus. three and then we uh we put this kind of. wrap across the patient start pumping in. liquid nitrogen vapor. that starts the raspberry cooling and. then we're going to move them eventually. to another room where we'll. put them another container and then. plunge the temperature very rapidly to. about minus 90 degrees c. but you know your freezer box holds at. minus 20 so it's minus 90 that's just to. start with and then we slow down a bit. to let the temperature kind of equal out. throughout the body and eventually we're. going to go down a little more slowly.

all the way down to uh minus 196 celsius. or minus 320 minus 320 fahrenheit that's. the that's the devil's produce. at that point man you're really. dude you're deep then you're very deep. you're so cold that basically you could. wait for a thousand years and you'd be. just as fresh as when you started once. you go below a certain temperature. basically nothing is happening there's. no metabolism whatsoever really so at. that point you're not going to no so at. that point you're not going to decay at. all not at all at all no wow not in the.

least. so you are really stuck i mean you are. you're. is is any part of you still living at. that point no you're not living but this. is actually a really important. discussion we get really philosophical. about this um you're not living because. life implies metabolism and activity and. obviously we've stopped all of that. happening but you're not dead either. because dead implies that you've gone. beyond repair right you've gone forever. and that's that's not the case either. just as we've seen with the case with. skin cells and corneas and other things. that we can.

they're not alive because they're not. functioning but we can bring them back. yeah just like like tom brady. you know so yeah so death is not a clear. concept actually um at least most people. don't have a clear idea of what death. really is so we talked about clinical. death that's just when a doctor says i. declare you well sorry not that's a. legal death legal that is where a doctor. says i'm going to call you dead maybe i. can bring you back you know but i'm. going to call you dead i'm giving up at. this point because there's nothing more. i can do clinical death is different. right clinical death is just when you. stop breathing and your heart stops.

beating that's it those are the two. requirements yeah but in the old days. that was death to people like before. about 1960 you know if we were talking. and you were so excited about what i was. saying that you just went oh oh oh and. you had a heart attack and you stopped. reading we check your polls so just like. in the old celtics he's dead jim that. was it we gave up yeah we don't do that. today someone would jump on you to start. doing cpr and defibrillation we'd be. shocking you and probably bring you back. so what we said was dead before about. 1960 we don't consider dead today we. consider in need of help so be so dead. keeps evolving yeah the difference what.

we call that what we call dead keeps. evolving and keeps changing yeah wow. that's interesting and today sometimes. you know we had the idea of brain death. to take it further so in our view when. someone declares you legally dead. um you're also clinically dead at that. point you're not really dead in some fun. if we if by death we mean irreversible. you're gone forever you're not dead. because almost everything in your body. is still alive now you will be dead if. we don't intervene and stop things. decaying you know if you do what most. people do which to me is completely. crazy throw you in the ground to beat my. worms and bacteria or shove you into a.

gigantic oven to be incinerated which is. just crazy stuff to me yeah at that. point yeah you can't really do that you. can't be reheated that's right now what. about this so. with clinical death and legal death is. that where they're then able to take. organs and donate them yes. so so that's interesting so after. clinical and legal death. you still have organs that go and can. live in someone else exactly. man that's a pretty good insight of what. could be possible one day and that's an. interesting point about that there's.

also something called uh donation after. cardiac death which means that actually. your brain in principle your brain could. still be functional when they take your. organs out wow you got to be really. really generous to do that. that's something they could in principle. do so this idea of dead is actually a. lot more complex than people will. realize they often talk about crying and. say well look dead is dead so it's. impossible well what kind of death are. we talking about here this yeah there's. different kinds it'd be crazy if you're. like at us you're you're like at a. street corner some guy gets hit by a bus. and people are like he's dead and you're. like is he no you better that's why we.

call the emergency medical services. because you know just because they're. not breathing doesn't mean that they're. dead yet wow man if you hate your phone. bill. if you look at that thing and say dang i. hate you. then that's probably because you're. getting ripped off. by fine print contracts from big. wireless providers. so i want to tell you about mint mobile. they offer premium wireless starting at. just 15 bucks a month.

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theo that's betterhelp.com. theo. yeah it's interesting to to start to. think about yeah what is the idea of. death and when is it but we already have. three. two we have legal death clinical death. and then we have the point where you've. incinerated or gotten you know damaged. the whatever's left so badly that's. really. irreversible and to you that's real yeah. and we have a special term for that. which will sound very very highfalutin. probably because it's. some of us are philosophers like myself. so we call this information theoretic.

death now it's not as complicated it. sounds basically the idea is well. obviously let's say you're in a plane. crash and you were totally incinerated. on the crash are you dead well yes. you're dead because there's no. conceivable technology that could ever. fix you so either if you gathered your. ashes and frozen nobody could ever fix. that yeah um but if uh. to take an example let's say that um. let's say theo that you're doing some. kind of nefarious thing you're thinking. about robbing a bank or doing something. like that and you you're kind of sitting. in your chair here kind of writing it. down on a piece of paper okay first of.

all i'm gonna i've got to buy the guns. here and then i've got to find out how. to get through the locks and then i. gotta yeah all your plans detail them. [Laughter]. yeah exactly so you've got your plan on. this piece of paper and you think oh god. that was so stupid why did i write that. down someone's going to find this you. know the fbi has been maybe sniffing. around and so you take the paper you. shred it in one direction you shred it. and the other you throw it in the trash. you think. okay i'm safe now no you're not because. if the nsa has been watching you because. they know what kind of guy you are come.

on they probably are oh yeah they. definitely i've gotten a couple of no i. haven't got an actual mail but i've. gotten emails that say i got to tone it. down so they got their eye on you so. they're going to go into your trash. they're going to fish that out they're. going to lay it out they're going to. scan it run it through a very computer. very clever computer algorithm and. they're going to reconstruct what you. thought you'd destroyed. and if you think about the brain it's. like a three-dimensional version of that. piece of paper you could do a lot of. damage actually to the brain you can. damage the cell membranes poke holes in. them uh change some of the chemistry it. doesn't mean that you could ever repair. it so long as there's enough information.

left in the brain that some advanced. technology like an advanced molecular. nanotechnology maybe generate run by. artificial intelligence whatever if it. can put those pieces back where they. were. then you could actually bring back the. function of the human being so that's. why we call information theoretic death. if you've lost too much information. there's too much damage it's really. obliterated then you're dead but beyond. that point you're not because more. advanced technology could in principle. repair you now we don't know for sure. that's going to happen but it seems like. a pretty good bet we're going to get. better and better at repairing people.

that's a pretty reasonable assumption i. think yeah i agree i mean well. technology just keeps advancing you know. even if you wanted it not to at this. point we could it. it's impossible to for us to even stop. there was an article the other there was. something the other day about some pigs. i saw. yeah on uh i think it was even on tmz. here it is right here dead pigs come. back to life. did you see this yeah yeah this is very. interesting research it was heartbeat. returns during experiment i'm just gonna.

a group of pigs was pronounced dead for. hours as part of a study. um. and. and then incredibly. uh i can't go back. and then incredibly scientists got it. beating again um. staggering few researchers from yale. begin pumping synthetic fluids through. the bodies of dead pigs getting their. hearts to faintly beat. um so after about five hours of what. would be considered death normally so. was this like do you know this has been.

going on for a long time or was this. news to you uh this was well this was. news in a sense but it wasn't a surprise. the same researchers actually did. something in 2019 that was fairly. similar they kind of extrapolated a. little bit further and back in the 80s. we don't do any animal research anymore. because it makes you a big target for. various people but back in the 80s we uh. or an associated lab did some work with. dogs where they would basically take out. all the blood from the dogs replace it. with a saline based solution. um and then chill them down to just that. four degrees c above freezing hold them.

there for several hours like four four. hours replace the blood re-warm them and. they came back and they were perfectly. fine they were neurologically intact. they recognized people everything was. fine so it's kind of a little bit. similar to what they're doing with the. pigs so they took the blood out of the. dogs yeah put it back and replaced with. a saline solution for a few hours and. resupported the circulation you know. externally because the heart wasn't. beating on its own okay right so then. kept it alive yeah with uh machines. and then brought it back to life and so. the dog knew what was going on knew. where it turned out yeah so much like. they're doing with the pig so that's.

actually very advanced research because. we had um there's a guy called dr peter. ree who actually used to be clinton's. personal physician and he's a real. expert in this area and he realized that. using low temperature surgery uh is. pretty good stuff because there are some. people you can't operate on like if you. have a gunshot wound you're going to. tend to bleed out really fast and trying. to get you to a hospital and operate on. you in time. usually hopeless so he thought well what. if we could cool people down a lot more. than we do today because we do sometimes. cool people for like brain surgery we'll. take them down a few degrees he said. what if we could take people down all.

the way to 10 degrees c above freezing. which is pretty chilly. and the idea is that again as you drop. in temperature your metabolism slows. down and that would buy you about four. times as much time so if you had only 10. minutes to operate you've got 40 minutes. and so on. and oh i see so at a certain so the. the colder you have the more preserved. you are. yeah your body from metabolizing exactly. and slowing that then that equates to. multiplying the amount of time that you. have exactly uh to operate on the body. as it is. so now i don't know if he's actually.

started the study yet it was supposed to. be in for pittsburgh maybe there's a lot. of gunshot wound victims there or. something but i think they've moved it i. don't know they've started doing it yet. but they've done it in animals and it. does work um and he actually came to. visit us in in arizona at alcor and he. said well what you're doing is more. radical what i'm doing but it's. basically the same principle and then. you know made sense and so so now you. guys have the body you have so that's. your clientele you freeze them down you. get the fluids into them do you keep the. organs in them i guess it depends on if. it's a full body.

yeah well we know we keep everything in. there okay um but yeah there's a basic. choice about half our members choose to. preserve the entire body and the other. half including myself just preserved the. brain now as a practical matter we leave. the brain inside the skull because it's. actually kind of hard to remove it. without damaging it and it's just a. useful protective box anyway so no point. removing it but the thing you want is. the brain because everything else you. can have to regenerate and you might. think well why do you want to do that. it's not like futurama where you'll be. zipping around on a flying saucer to. keep your head going or something well. no the idea is that um given the kind of.

technology we'll need to repair. you know. 70 85 billion damaged neurons plus all. the trillions of blood cells in the body. that kind of technology should be able. to regenerate a body pretty easily um. that's actually relatively easy well i. say easy. it's a nearer term problem then be able. to repair a brain we can already start. to grow at least proto-organs in the lab. basic organs we can grow today out of. stomachs and the liver regrows the liver. grows part of itself right the liver is. the only thing that humans are really. bad at this we're just terrible compared. to animals you can chop their arms off. some of them and they regrow their arm.

or worms grow half their bodies pass. themselves yeah just humans are lousy at. this when we're embryos we can actually. regenerate parts but basically we can. generate part of our liver unless we. drink too much maybe but we could do a. little bit of limit we can maybe get the. tip of our finger back and that's it. we're just terrible but that's because. we have the wrong genetic sequence right. we can get in there we can alter that we. should better program the body to regrow. parts and we're starting to grow things. in the lab today so to me regrowing a. body is actually going to be a lot. sooner than repairing a brain i think. we'll do that in the next you know 20. years or so whereas the brain's going to.

take longer so my logic is why should i. take my whole body which hopefully if i. you know i won't die early it's going to. be a really lousy condition by the time. that happens uh it's just gonna be easy. to grow a new one probably right and. you'd want a new one too nobody's if. somebody look man if you bring me back. honestly dr max if you bring me back and. i'm in my same old body and i can't. you know go on dates or you know do. hoops or anything like that bro i'm not. going to want to be there exactly no. yeah the idea is and it's a good thing. you bring that up because it always kind. of amazes me that people think that's.

what you do of course you're not going. to bring back someone as a 95 year old. what's the point the idea is you're. going to rejuvenate the body with that. kind of technology you're going to. rejuvenate the body reverse the aging. process and fix it so you don't age. further and yeah you'll be in your best. body that you ever had and. i would i would assume that there will. be options either before they bring you. back fully or right afterwards they're. going to say well okay we'll bring you. back in your best body you ever had but. shall we also fix your short-sightedness. do you want to fix that back problem. you've had for your yeah your entire. life or l5 s1 yeah yeah but do they um.

but so but now does this. does the size of a brain grow over time. so could you. would you have to bring the body back. say say you okay so there's a lot of. ways to go there's a lot of ways to go. here so. okay so. first what are the options that you guys. offer for freezing just so i know for. the cryonics process at alcor that's. your company alcor and what what what. are the. the options like what's the packages. i should say by when you say a company.

it's actually a non-profit organization. where a 501c texas a nonprofit. organization okay and that's important. to us because as a profit-making company. i've got nothing against that but it. tends to not survive very long if you. look at them historically whereas. non-profits educational organizations. religious organizations they can survive. for centuries that's why we're set up. that way so we nobody actually makes. profits from this we you know we have. salary stuff of course nobody makes. profits it's fact well it i love that. man it's fascinating because yeah i mean. you guys are basically like um. like death like magellan's i mean you.

guys are out there just like you know. that's that's a good analogy i think. that's a good analogy because when. people say well what kind of people do. this. um well there are a number of factors. but one of them that's really critical. is you have to be an explorer i mean if. you think about i've talked to so many. people about this and. those who say well yeah i can i can see. how this could work this is not. implausible and then they go but oh my. god this might work that's that's scary. because they think about coming back. into a future maybe 100 years from now. everything's radically different their. skills are outdated they don't know. anybody and it horrifies them yeah which.

i think is one big reason why there. aren't more people doing this uh it. tends to appeal to people who have you. know a magellan type personality and. explore a personality who look on that. and say well yeah it's gonna take some. getting used to although the. organization part of its mission is to. help you get you know rehabilitated yeah. you got to be brave because you're going. to go see your buddy and he's going to. be like 70 years older. or you're going to go or he's going to. be gone all your like a lot of your. friends might be gone or say if you died. at like 21 and you got froze and you. come back 40 years later you're going to.

go over to your friend's house he's. going to be 60 you know it's like. everything's going to be. actually probably not that because. again the technology we're talking about. to reverse all the damage that's been. done by that point that you've legally. died plus the extra damage done in the. process we will fix the aging problem. before we bring people back so at least. your friend yeah they may be 80 years. older but they won't look 80 years older. but yeah they'll still be that huge gap. in experience obviously. now it's better if you can persuade your. friends and family to come with you yeah. yeah i know quite a few people i know a. number of people already cry preserved.

and i have my wife has signed up for. this and a lot of my friends are so i. don't have that problem so much i know. some people but not everybody will but. you know i'd still rather come back not. knowing anybody i mean i came from i. came from england to los angeles back in. the 80s and i didn't really know anybody. and and it was a weird place here you. had this kind of bright object shining. from the sky instead of water falling on. me which is what what's up with that. people driving on the road yeah people. driving on the wrong side of the road. and stuff but we came over here yeah in. the 1700s and we didn't know anybody. yeah you know. um exactly it's like a journey through.

time instead of a journey through space. dude that's so there's so many things. going on here man so. but also you're going to bring your wife. bro that's a risky move huh. why is that risky i mean i think it's. great i think it's very honorable and. it's very it's it's very sweet and kind. but what if like dude you know. it just see you gotta really be dialed. in for like you know because you only. said what for like what is the vow it's. like oh we didn't do that one though oh.

it's still death to us part you should. have said till legal death do us part. yeah we didn't do that one because we. have a problem with the idea of death so. no it does bring out some interesting. questions because yeah i mean okay. you've got 50 years together 70 years. ago okay but what about a thousand years. together. so but you know we'll worry about that. warning yes. yeah that's a good call. so yeah you have to think of these. people yeah because you. i think in the simplistic mind. which i happen to possess thankfully for. the both of us um it's you just think.

like the the the and the animal the the. the neanderthal thoughts are like i'm. gonna live forever. uh i'm gonna come back but you don't. think about after that like do you. like what do you guys do do you guys. just give them like a bus ticket like. out of prison or whatever or do you guys. like like what where where do you put. him at is there like a re-entry program. uh yes or no i mean. no in the sense that this is still so. far off that we can't really we can't. really figure out we don't even know who. will make the decision to bring you back. i mean will it be our organization will.

it be some kind of you know uh. ethics panel of universities or a. government thing we don't we don't even. know that right so we can't really plan. in too much detail but yes we do think. about it and we it's part of our mission. statement you go to the website look at. our mission statement part of that is. not just to wake you up kind of shove. you out the door and say good luck man. no we're going to actually rehabilitate. you yeah here's a hand warmer yeah. exactly uh yeah when today think about. it today there are people who've been in. comas for years even decades uh if you. have seen the movie awakenings with. robert de niro i just watched that movie.

a couple of months ago can we bring some. of that up. that's fascinating yeah based on on on. the book by oliver sex so these were. people who were basically uh in a. special kind of coma basically their. dopamine levels in the brain were really. low they were like frozen statues not. really aware of the passage of time some. of them like that for more than more. than a decade or two and when they were. woken up um of course for some of them. it was pretty horrifying because they. suddenly aged overnight uh yeah so like. that in our case would be the opposite. of that uh of course you look in the. mirror and go damn i look good yeah.

right because. people would be excited because you. would be bringing them back in so what. you're saying is you're going to be. bringing people back into their best. self exactly because that's technology. that'll help because you'll come back. not feeling crappy like when you when. you cease to function you'll come back. feeling the best self plus we are there. to help you out we're going to. rehabilitate whatever that will mean at. the time it might mean um you know we're. going to put you in some virtual reality. environment to sort of train how the. world works before you step out in front. of that flying car or whatever you know. uh we don't really know what things. would be like 100 years from now nobody. does anybody who says they do is lying.

because you just can't forecast that far. ahead except yeah future people if. somebody says they're from the future. brother probably lying. um. wow man so yeah you really your work. kind of like. like you know what you do but it's also. what you do is constantly like. gonna be evolving so. it's kind of interesting it's like your. job is um. like kind of uh.

your job is kind of. tran it's like. it's malleable really because you we. don't know what the future holds it's. difficult it's about because we don't. know what the future is going to be. exactly and we get a better idea over. time um i mean it's also changes because. of the conditions under which we can do. our job so for instance it's only in the. last few years in this country that we. could use the death with dignity laws. which are actually very useful for us um. so yeah before that basically we had to. wait until our doctor declared illegally. dead that could have happened you know.

out of the blue no warning but today. we've done this twice so far a member. can call us up and say look you know my. doctor said i've got no more than six. months to go i'm in a state that allows. the death with dignity laws i want to go. two weeks from wednesday no. so we can say okay great we're going to. have a team there so we don't have to. worry about getting someone there you. know get an emergency call we've got to. get someone there the person's already. stopped breathing no we can have a team. right there they can take their. medication they have to self-administer. our law uh we wait as soon as they're. declared legally dead we begin with no.

delay whatsoever that's that's pretty. much ideal that's fresh and that's not. every state right now that's only. certain california can do that in a few. other states can arizona do that not yet. no they should be soon arizona arizona's. they're pretty wild west out there in a. lot of ways yeah we're kind of we're. kind of advanced in some ways a little. bit with another yeah it's a good call i. used to live in tucson over there and a. lot of people don't have shirt sleeves. on a lot of times. and uh we have you know we have. marijuana's legal there or it's not in. some other places but uh we're a little. conservative on some of the social stuff. like that would dignity but i think it's.

mixed there so i think it will get there. but we do have teams here in california. so that's not really a big problem. so. so you have the okay so. people get. brought people sign up in advance yeah. almost always and do you meet with them. usually at least probably have zooms. with them or people are just like i want. the program this is it. uh. quite often they'll come for a visit and. we do encourage that because i mean you. don't have to because there's so many. videos you can go online and see what we. do but we do encourage people to come. and visit uh you know we give tours of.

the place we're very open so we want. people to. see what the reality of it is oh yeah. but they don't have to come visit if. they've read a lot about it i went to. that coors brewing over there in golden. colorado you ever been to that no but. they have some similar containers to. ours they're the very big containers. like the viewers basically the vacuum. containers i think for brewing yeah. that's what i was thinking of if they're. full body you store them up and down or. can you do a lay down option no we don't. delay that that'd be kind of inefficient. for space that's an interesting question. because um.

the first clients organization in china. started a few years ago and they were. talking to them and that's what they. wanted to do because it's kind of a. cultural thing. they want to lay that you can't stack. them though because that applies. superiority if you're on top i guess so. they want to do that but it just it just. doesn't work very well it doesn't work. very well in the vessels it's expensive. nothing from china works very well i. don't think no i agree. so now they're actually uh we actually. store patients upside down in the whole. body patients wow i don't think we. really need to do that um. basically the idea was that the liquid.

nitrogen will boil off over time it will. gradually get lower and lower over a. period of weeks to months and if you. have a little bit at the bottom. obviously that's where you want the. brain to be at the bottom the last thing. to get warmed up although that shouldn't. have happened so they're upside down. yeah. but it's not really necessary today. because we now store patients in inside. these steel steel containers you can see. there's an aluminum pod that contains. the patient and that conducts. temperature really well so even if you. just got a little bit of liquid nitrogen. at the bottom it's still going to be. super cold at the top but it's just kind. of an extra uh you know extra layers.

what do they call it shoot uh laces and. what is this for the phrase basically. shooting fish in a barrel no no uh the. back up option with the lease isn't the. straight off i forget what you know what. i mean we we just do that as an extra uh. protection an extra layer yeah. um and who's this chick she's not sorry. i meant suspenders and belts but built. in suspenders oh yeah if you go building. suspenders that's insane that is that's. a starbucks from battlestar galactica is. it really on many other shows dang i. gotta quit going to coffee bean then we.

had a really good time talking that was. a good that was a good tour i bet but. enthusiastic about it she seems and she. seemed like a nice lady yeah but i'll. say this so. dude this is first of all this is crazy. man first of all thank you so much for. coming in man this is really fascinating. because. i don't want to die to be honest with. you you know that death is boring i mean. who wants to die it's just boring yeah. well part of it starts to feel good. because you want to get some rest i. think but there's a big other part of it. it's like. but you know i don't want that much rest.

yeah so what i'm thinking is like i. would love to be able to come back one. day you know or have the option and so. what kind of that's the thing though. it's an option right you don't right you. don't have to live forever we're not and. that's that's something because i think. you mentioned that early on we're not. offering eternity we're not offering. immortality because we can't do that you. can still get hit by a bus or get shot. by somebody or an asteroid can land on. your head this is not about immortality. we're not offering that we're afraid the. chance to come back and live for who. knows how long hundreds thousands of. years but you know after 500 years you. go you know i think i've done everything.

i want to do you could always check out. so it's an option that's the that's. already the point of it. do would you ever worry that you would. bring people back. and wherever they've gone when they've. left here like hypothetically left here. was so awesome they're gonna be like ah. [ __ ] dude you brought me back here back. here to hardee's or whatever. uh. i'm not really worried about that um. i have to distinguish my own personal. opinion from that of the organization. right the organization doesn't take any. any view on whether there's a soul or. not uh i personally don't believe in a.

soul i don't i think that we're just a. physical being and if you destroy that. you're gone and uh so long as we can. restore it you can come back but uh if. there is a soul and you know i've taught. philosophy of religion i thought it made. sense mary's not too far from borrow. state oh really yeah oh that's awesome. man so yeah i've taught philosophy. religion and i know i understand that. probably better than many of the. religious people do i found i do know. that you're a philosopher and a doctor i. do know those things so i don't you. think i don't know anything. so i don't think it's a problem and for. several reasons let's look at uh we. mentioned uh in uh vitro fertilization.

what used to be called test tube babies. right uh they're frozen my girlfriend's. eggs are frozen yeah frozen embryos it. could be there for years sometimes more. than a decade well if you believe that. the soul enters at the point of. conception they have souls. and yet do you ever uh you know of the. millions of people walking around today. who used to be in that state did they. ever say yeah it was really boring you. know floating around getting really. bored no they never report that so it. doesn't seem to be a problem for that. yeah we also have people who've been. legally dead for up to an hour or so and.

if you believe the soul leaves when the. body stops functioning uh again they. don't really report you know being in. kind of boring condition so i don't. think it's a problem also because if. there is a soul it's obviously not a. physical thing because otherwise we. could detect it with science so it must. be outside space and time so i think. whether it's a day or you know a minute. or a day or 100 years shouldn't make any. difference right that's true if it's. gone for an hour it's gone for it if. it's that attached to the actual. physical being then it should be able to. come back so. really you guys. if people are able to be.

thawed out. hypothetically back into existence. we might find we would learn a lot about. if there are souls or not. maybe yeah i mean my view is it's. completely compatible with just about. any religion there might be one or two. exceptions that uh is it the jehovah's. witnesses or one of the groups that. doesn't do blood transfusions that could. be a problem for us removing the blood. but apart from that i mean if you're a. christian uh it would seem to me that. you'd want to do this because first of. all why are you in such a a rush to get. to your eternal reward don't you want to.

do some more good works or save some. souls that kind of thing yeah it's a bit. selfish to take off at the earliest. opportunity right yeah buzz out yeah you. have one stroke and then you leave. that's kind of soft and uh judaism too i. think is actually very pro uh pro living. and uh you know life is basically good. you stick around and do good works oh. yeah my jewish buddies they'll mill. around forever dude if there's some. opportunity you know jews love to do. stuff and create you know be part of. things for sure so so it's really just. going to lose them no it's i mean the. way i think of it is chronics is really.

an extension of emergency medicine it's. not some kind of strange thing about. dead people because they're not really. dead it's just an extension of emergency. medicine it's a doctor saying i just. can't do anything more for this person. right now and we're saying well let's. not just destroy them by putting them in. an oven or the ground give them to us. let us treat them stop them getting. worse and give the future a chance of. giving them more life that seems like. the reason the more conservative thing. to do. yeah it seems like. yeah i mean i consider myself a. christian and i believe that i'm down. for it you know.

um yeah do you feel like it's like. do you feel like it's like divinely. intend like there's divine intention. behind this or do you think that. it would be like divinely frowned upon i. guess and you may have already just. answered that well i don't i don't think. either if there is a god out there uh i. don't see god objecting to us uh. creating the internet for instance or uh. electric vehicles or even old-fashioned. vehicles so i think if there is a god. then for the most part that god lets us.

use our own intelligence our god-given. intelligence if you like yeah um. and what we do it is up to us and what. we do hopefully we'll do good things. with it but i don't think there is a. list of things that we we mustn't do. it's more a matter of you know let's do. the right thing let's do good things. this is a good thing this is about. saving lives about giving people more. life and unable to do more good things. yeah and maybe god would be impressed. too god would be like dang you guys. figured this out yeah i think that'd be. pretty cool too you got off the planet. in 1969 leonard saw on the moon now. you've bringing people back to that's. pretty cool you guys are doing good guys.

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the state since 1987. oh i couldn't tell. if you were from england if you had a. cold. well yeah kind of a little both so uh i. came over actually because of cryonics. in a way actually first came over in. 1986 to california because uh i joined. alcoa i was 22 years old at the time. and. i i came over here because i sent a. little donation like out of my puny. student salary i had a tiny donation. because alcohol was a tiny little. organization at the time and how did you. hear about it. um i heard about it. oh well is it long and a short version.

of that uh i heard about it initially as. a fictional thing in a kid's tv show. which kind of still amazes me because. this was a like a young kids tv show. with some pretty interesting advanced. ideas in the very first one it's called. time slip you can actually get it on dvd. now which i did about 10 years ago. in the first episode they go through. this kind of hole in space and time uh. some years into the future to this. arctic research station. and the episode that the the caption of. the station had been you know seriously. injured and so he was cryo preserved wow. and they looked at his frosty face whoa.

it also had artificial intelligence it. had brain augmentation this was a kids. show it's like amazing. uh so that was a fictional thing and. then later on i read a book by robert. anton wilson i know if you know this guy. from the 70s used to be editor for. penthouse he wrote the illuminatus. trilogy it was a big counterculture uh. book back then uh he in his non-fiction. book cosmic trigger he wrote about uh. his daughter luna who'd been murdered at. the age of 14 in san francisco and he. had a you know terror when he had a. brain cryo preserved i went oh so this. is a real thing so that's when you. learned out that that the thing you had.

seen in like a fictional aspect as a. child was now real that was the first. time i saw it was real and so you sent. him in some money you're like i'm sorry. this is my church before that i was uh i. didn't know anybody you know actually. doing it though so. the next thing happened i was you know i. was kind of a strange person in the. sense because i was interested in all. these weird futuristic ideas and nobody. else around me was and then i saw an ad. for group meeting at imperial college in. london to talk about space colonization. and life extension and all the kind of. cool things i was into so i went down. there and at that time they had the. magazine we still produced today. cryonics magazine and they shoved it at.

me and said what do you think of this i. said yeah that makes sense to me so. that's how i first heard of it and then. i got involved with the organization i. joined up so i came over to the states. in 86 for six weeks. i signed up i did my training i actually. went to ucla with jerry leaf who was a. surgery researcher there um alcor at the. time was actually in fullerton just. before they moved to riverside which is. a not quite good place to be yeah a lot. of bangers out there dog. at least ms9 out there we had legal. problems we could talk about that yeah. all these guys do too trust me yeah no.

that's not quite the same kind maybe but. no with the bureaucrats oh you did yeah. so so you guys are trying to establish. are you you're joining something that's. already established after you're on a. six week is it like a camp or something. like no it was just i decided to come. over well basically what happened was. the president at the time said okay you. send us some money that's that's great. i'm gonna challenge you why don't you. actually sign up become the first member. in england i said okay i'll do that they. said if you've got the balls for that. why don't you actually start something. in england we ended up actually creating. the first cryonics organization in. england at the time and did a lot of a.

lot of media appearances i did this very. scary thing i'd never been on tv i was. on the terry wogan show which is like. johnny carson used to be everybody. watched it it was live terry logan bring. up a picture of terry logan let's see. what we're looking at here i always want. to see this very famous presenter in. england. the biggest show live so i had to go on. stage live in front of millions of. people like no experience terrifying. there you zoom in on a pickup and let me. get a look at this guy terry wogan yeah. he looks like that he's around forever. he looks exactly like you'd expect him. to look irish irish fella oh is he irish.

irish were you cheerful oh that's. unfortunate well he was a good host. but actually that was actually a good. appearance because uh i was on the very. i had the other guests were on i sat. next to the makeup room to shirley. bassey you remember the bond singer she. did all the james bond themes in the in. the sean connery days i've remembered. forever. the song yeah i remember wow that was. her so she was in the chat because i was. there for like a minute she was there. for pretty good she's cute. yeah i don't think i could really see. her because she was kind of to my side. yeah. but then on the actual show they had um.

that's crazy so they just have you so. that had to feel kind of strange or at. this point were you feeling kind of like. empowered then like what have i stepped. into i was kind of terrified at that. point i mean i got used to it fairly. quickly but it was kind of scary scary. for the very it's actually my second. appearance the first one was two days. early on what they call breakfast tv at. the time because it was a new thing but. actually for the woken show i guess they. had a budget in those days i was in. bristol and they sent the guy on the. train all the way to bristol to talk to. me to make sure i wasn't a crazy person. i guess wow um but on the show itself. they had um oh what is his name.

james burke he was like a a science. boffin who did all these very popular. shows had a show called connections. which is amazing it showed how all these. developments and technology came out of. totally unexpected directions and it was. a really good show and he stayed on next. to me he was that guy before me and i. was like oh [ __ ] what's he going to say. is he going to say this is stupid and he. said two things both of which were. supportive so i went oh phew that's. great. wow. almost accepted at that point yeah like. a moment of like oh here's some. acceptance by kind of just society um so. then i came over to the state spent six.

weeks here basically doing the training. went back and then the next year uh i. decided i moved over here to go to usc. to do my my doctoral work so i helped. out with alcohol doing cases back those. in those early days and then eventually. went on to run the organization much. later and at that point are you guys. like going to bars when people are like. are you how are you at how are you. advertising going to buzz how are you. reaching people you know um or people. that buy motorcycles because i'll say. this. um. that's an interesting floor people that. buy motorcyclists are the number one. organ donors a lot of people don't know.

that but um yeah i've heard that my plus. they're probably adventurous in spirit. right yeah yeah and they i mean yeah. they're the number one organ donors but. anyway so so how are you guys. advertising like and and getting the. word out to people that there's this. company i'm still thinking about you. saying bars i think i think about going. into a bar it's like hey can i buy you a. pint and talk to you about getting your. brain frozen. i'm not sure that would work that well. i don't know there's some chicks i think. it would work on. any gay dude would take that as a good. you could say anything to a gay dude if.

he's interested he'll he'll be. interested so i think he could buy them. anything you know. yeah but the biker thing is interesting. because uh actually yeah it's. interesting because how do you find. people i mean our members tend to be. pretty well educated because you need to. sort of understand a bit about the. process and understand how it could work. and the future stuff but i think very. important again is this adventurous. personality and how do you find that. combination maybe mountain climbers. maybe people like to travel the world oh. yeah maybe bikers i don't know. yeah no it's interesting well you said. earlier these are adventurers you know.

it's people that are explorers you know. yeah i mean explorers of tomorrow yeah. well people what's that from. me. i'm just doing the voice like for him i. don't know if like a seth mcfarlane. voice or something yeah no it makes you. feel like that it's like well i'd never. thought before until you and i are. sitting here talking. first of all. could i come back that's all i that's as. far as my brain it would go going with. it wow if they could do this sure i'd be. willing to be a part you know i'd be. willing this sounds like it'd be up my.

alley but then would i want to you know. would you want to just walk out into. like you know back out into life not. knowing who would be there what it would. be like what if we were under like rule. of another you know you just don't know. what it would be like well okay so i've. said before that you know i nobody can. forecast the future not in detail right. we have no idea but i think we can. reasonably safely make some general. predictions okay general trend. prediction so you say we have no idea. what i think we have some idea of what. it'd be like and i'm going to say things. here which a lot of people are listening.

and go nah that's [ __ ] man because. everybody today is thinking that the. future is really screwed up can i say f. words here yeah you can say everybody's. saying that the future is [ __ ] right. we're going to be [ __ ] by the ais. we're going to be [ __ ] by pandemics. there's going to be mad max worlds. there's just going to be all kinds of. awful stuff because that's what science. fiction shows because that's the easy. way to write drama right yeah i think. that's the wrong way to look at things. if you think about human history over. the very long term. have things got better or worse well. obviously they've gotten better because. we just go back a little way women.

didn't have the vote black people were. enslaved we didn't have painkillers we. didn't have antibiotics we didn't have. anything. a lot of people couldn't keep their. teeth for a long time teeth right. exactly in fact in england we'd have bad. teeth just a few decades ago you guys. are still practicing yeah he's still. working on that one um so you know so i. often ask people that how let me go take. it back 100 years 200 years 500 years a. thousand years would you want to live. then hell no when you actually think. about what it's like it was horrible it. was also very violent i mean people. think it's violent today they have no. idea things have gotten we're actually. at the least violent time in human.

history even the bible at one point cain. killed abel there were four people in. the bible and one of them killed the. other one yeah well god says in the old. testament quite a few times wipe out. this village. wipe out all of them or else sometimes. he says keep the women from yourselves. but sometimes you just wipe out. everybody so it was it was pretty brutal. back then yeah it sounds like it so so. my view is that i hated that the. reasonable way to think about the future. is to extrapolate what we've always been. doing right almost like the standard. like the s p 500 yeah we get better over. time there are a few and again a lot of.

people don't believe this but go look. there's a great website called our world. in data if you don't believe me our. world and data will in data in our world. yeah or humanprogress.org both of them. will show you in immense detail and all. these charts uh yeah how many people are. starving to death it's going down. actually in total not just. proportionately um so that gives you. this actual data so instead of when. somebody's like man everything sucks man. you know these actually have lots and. lots of information showing how things. are generally getting better obviously. there are local problems things get. worse and locally for in various ways oh.

yeah um but overall there are a few. people starving not just proportionally. but in total uh though a lot of people. think pollution is getting worse even. smart people i was debating this. professor at ucla um on a is actually an. oxford union debate and i was telling. you you know the air in los angeles has. gotten better over a decade she went no. it hasn't no it hasn't. really how could you not know that just. look at pictures from the 60s you. couldn't see it was like london fog yeah. right we had lead in the air we had all. kinds of volatile kind of competitions. nope smoke in the air too more probably.

yeah about that as well but no you're. saying so that's a great place to get. information like yeah even joe rogan. says that sometimes sometimes i. romanticize things and i'm like man i. missed this and i missed that and he. goes you would have hated that he's like. you're right now is really the best you. know the best time to be alive you have. the best chance of living you have. option to as much information as you. want. yeah i mean go back a couple hundred. years you probably never went more than. 20 miles from where you were born that. was that was where you lived you did the. damn job your dad and grandfather did i. mean you had no choices if you were gay. you're in big trouble yeah yeah you're.

hiding yeah gay people had to hide all. the time if you had the wrong religious. ideas you're in big trouble you couldn't. even get away witches remember they had. witches oh yeah like 130 years ago they. had witches somewhere dude they got them. yeah that stuff's crazy man um so yeah. so i think it's reasonably safe i mean. it's always possible to completely screw. things up and just destroy ourselves but. um i love your attitude the most likely. thing is that we'll be pretty decent. place to come back in it'll probably be. better than it is today so i'm willing. to come back even if i have nothing and. i do have plans to actually have.

something but if i have nothing i still. want to do it i want to come back and. enjoy my life yeah because if you come. back and it sucks you can always leave. again exactly. there are ways excuse me there are ways. of actually coming back with something. we hope um first of all as an. organization because we're a non-profit. we we have a we have what we call a. patient care trust fund where when you. pay for this procedure a big chunk of. that money is put into a separate fund. and is managed by its own board of. trustees it can't be used to pay for. anything else just for keeping your. crowd preserved and eventually revived.

um but beyond so we can't divide that up. because it's a non-profit but you can. personally set up a special trust fund. an asset preservation trend uh asset. preservation fund where uh it'll be. managed by trustees after you're legally. dead and when you come back if this. works out then you should get that money. back it's kind of like a like a. university endowment i guess or. something like that where you can tie it. up for a long period of time so. hopefully when you come back you'll have. money because we don't even know if you. need money yeah maybe the robots will be. doing all the main things you you only. have to pay for really expensive stuff. like going into space or something we. don't really know but it's nice to have.

that option and so the cost when people. want to sign up for this type of service. you know what what does that cost and. how does that look how do you. what is that like yeah it's less than. people think um i mean i signed up as a. pretty poor student when i was 22 years. old in england. but uh yeah our costs have gone up a bit. bit since then because it was all. volunteer and now we have you know. professional organization but basically. there are two expenses there is the. membership the membership dues which you. pay while you're still legally alive it. keeps the organization functioning um.

and that uh that actually depends on age. now but let's say it's around uh about. 600 a year so yeah if you're someone who. goes to starbucks every day and gets a. cup of coffee don't tell me you can't. afford that right. yeah if you can afford to get a little. buzz in the morning you can get four to. get a little buzz forever yeah if it's a. fraction of that price so so it's really. not that much and then um the one that. will seem expensive is that the fee. itself we'll call the cryo preservation. fee which pays for the entire process. that i've described everything from us. sending a team to stand by your bedroom. even for days to weeks doing that whole. procedure taking you to alcohol in.

arizona doing the surgery the perfusion. the cool down and the indefinite storage. all of that for a whole body is a. minimum of 200 000 and for neuro just. the brain is eighty thousand oh wow now. that may seem like a fair bit to people. but i make the point almost all that. matters probably 95 of our members pay. for that with life insurance so you. don't have to have 80 000 or 200 000. bucks in your pocket you have a life. insurance policy which most people can. have and if you're reasonably young and. healthy that's not a big expense. so so people make our organization the. beneficiary of make sure organization.

the beneficiary of the life insurance. policy wow that's really interesting and. can people even say they have enough. money in their life insurance policy. they could split that up and make their. family and you guys absolutely wow. [Music]. dang so. dude i think i want to get in bro i. can't even believe i didn't think i was. going to buy in but i think dude. business in arizona yeah it's like. all-time share it's like it's like the. ultimate time share you know and a lot. of times here's their [ __ ] my brother. got him one but um but this is like the.

time share like that this is like the. real time share. like if i'm buying a time share i feel. like you guys are like selling the best. one you know. um. so you wouldn't have to share your body. with anybody. yeah could you share one of the little. things with somebody well actually yeah. the viewers the containers yeah actually. that is what you do right now because. good uh the the the ones we've been. using for a long time contain four. patients four whole body patients but. now we have what we call the superduos. which will take about 11 whole body. patients hell yeah you might say well. who am i going to be spending my time.

next day well you won't be aware of. anything of course there's no. consciousness do you ever see the movie. uh vanilla sky tom cruise and penelope. cruz. yeah i did see you yeah so that was very. unrealistic cryonics right they had. cryonics in that but they offered a um. a lucid dreaming option where you could. have dreams while you're crying preserve. that does not work you cannot do that. because there's no brain activity. there's no metabolism so you guys don't. have that but that doesn't work but what. about the one movie with uh mel gibson. that i loved remember when he came back. he was frozen oh is that one where he. ages rapidly when he comes back yeah see.

that's kind of a negative one though. there's no reason why that would happen. that's gonna yeah sorry don't you don't. reference that one but i loved that. movie just because he got to come back. you know he got to come back and have. some moments that he missed out on. because he was from like 1940s or. something and yeah and he got to come. back there it was right there uh forever. young young right. there's demolition there's been so many. movies demolition man of course were. that's one of the reasons i was so. interested in speaking with you because. it's a it's. it is fascinating it's fascinating. because i still just think of my life on.

these limited terms. and to be able to adjust my perspective. to think of my life as like. well what if this is just the start of. something that's going to happen like. it's just the start i mean if you've. been 50 years it's still just the start. that's the great thing is it changes. your perspective on things yeah and if. you think what kind of people would we. be i mean just think about how we are. right now. human condition is pretty awful in a way. because. you pretty stupid when you're 20 years. old even 30 years old you kind of. haven't learned very much right even 41. yeah even 58 i mean yeah.

it takes about 58. i'm 58. yeah i look. great man well thanks well i don't want. to get cry preserved any sooner than i. need to yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. so yeah we it takes us a while to learn. things and just as we're starting to. figure a few things out in life we start. going wrinkly and weak getting heart. disease and our brain slows down that's. true isn't this awful that as age goes. up vitality goes down at the same time. what if you could live and definitely. get older in years but. stay vigorous and youthful in fact maybe. even get smarter because we could.

probably do alterations to make you even. more intelligent and you know. emotionally emotionally more stable what. kind of person would you be after a few. hundred years of increasing experience. and wisdom i mean one thing i don't. think we'd have many wars because who. who fights the wars it's the 19 and 20. year olds it's not the people who are 70. years old they don't risk all that life. they've had so i think people would. think long term they think about the. environment they think about you know. not having wars but better kinds of ways. of negotiating so i think it really. changes a lot of stuff and i think for. the better. well yeah it's so true you're it's so. often like i always.

i always uh. talk with guys about how how crazy it is. how hard it is to pass information on. from one generation to the next even. though they're right there it's like you. know it's. and how. like. how resi it doesn't feel successfully. residual when you like teach your kids. they learn the same thing you learned. and then you're dead you know it's like. it seems like we get caught in this like. just start this. this bad. repetition. uh it doesn't hurt when the schools are. so bad too and that's hard to get to. learn anything from.

as i know from teaching yeah. um. but yeah to to have an extension where. you're like wow i'm going to be able to. really keep this information. are there are there certain like. ethnicities or. uh gender who who who does that who. who's your clientele right now kind of. or who has it been and what has that. looked like uh changing over time or not. changing of course we will take anybody. just like a hospital we're not going to. turn someone away because we don't like. the look of you or your your religion or. whatever right right but um yeah.

we do tend to skew mail right now and. you know there's some uh discussion. about why is that that and you can have. kind of speculations well maybe it's an. evolutionary thing that traditionally. males have been the ones to the hunter. gatherers to go out there and get the. food while the women kind of protect. things at home or whatever maybe i don't. know that's kind of a possible. explanation yeah or that are a lot of. art types what is archetypes. yeah. a lot of our our our i think it's. archetypes have been like males that are. like the um. you know and so maybe they've been a lot.

of the explorers over history and even. though now it's changing some like they. have like she-hulk is coming out i think. yeah but it's like. but so now i think maybe that process. might be getting more involved in. women's heads you know exactly so it's. changing but it's still i think there is. still that aspect there right so okay so. that might be that might be part of it. but we're seeing uh so we're like 70. something male right now but we're also. seeing more families signing up as a. whole which is great because the idea of. coming back with your family is. obviously more appealing than being solo. yeah so that's one aspect.

we tend to find that our members tend to. be uh more highly educated than the. average and i think that's the natural. because to think about these ideas in. depth and to go through the details and. figure it out it's more likely to be. someone who's more educated yeah i never. thought i mean i hadn't thought much. about it it's not necessary um. but again. i guess in terms of. people's industry we definitely have a. lot of people from the computer industry. i think there's a reason why we have a. lot of people from computers which is. if you think about it people who deal. with computers.

deal with really complex problems. millions of lines of code uh these. things most people look at go how the. heck are we gonna deal with this it's. impossible but they're used to hacking. the system hacking the problem right. they break it down into smaller. components and if you think about the. body and the aging body and repairing. the brain that's a massively complex. problem most people gonna say oh that's. impossible but someone who deals with. computers can say no it's not we're just. gonna break it down into smaller. components we're gonna hack the problem. until we've solved it so i think it's. pretty natural that we get people from. that area in particular.

and that's so interesting. i'm glad those people are going we're. going to need those people and what if. they're ethnicities is it more is it. like a or i guess wealthier people can. maybe afford it but. especially when you say that life. insurance can be part of it that's a. huge i mean that makes a big difference. yeah because. do you want to leave especially if you. got like kind of a shitty kid do you. want to leave your money to your shitty. kid dude who's not doing much who's. doing a lot of you know. you know uh who's still playing like a. lot of like pickup sports or whatever.

and he's like 45 he's living at the. house and whatever but or do you want to. yeah get a job and i'm going to get and. i'm going to come back and make sure you. have a job. that's interesting man yeah but no as. you said earlier. we do encourage people to provide for. their family as well because if you. don't if you put everything into the. crowd preservation fund there's an. incentive for i mean it's amazing how. bad families are when once you once. you're legally dead they turn into. vultures in many cases it's pretty sad.

and you say oh no my family would never. do that well man we've seen it too often. they'll actually try and take the funds. you've dedicated for you know your own. possible survival really have you guys. had to go to any court cases. yes we have a number of times and we. will do that we were very we're absolute. about protecting our members rights so. we've had par you know relatives try to. take people out of crowd preservation. try to block it and we we have we've. become the court a number of times to. protect the rights so try to provide for. them you know separately unless you. really hate the kid and don't want to do. it but uh. but yeah provide for them separately um. preferably with a separate policy to.

make it even less complicated i love. matt this is cool man and why why um how. do we know that you guys will. uh. be able to stay around like. i guess we don't great question i. actually uh you know i take that. question very seriously um people are. really interested go to a website. alcor.org go to the cryonics magazine. and look for a two-part article i wrote. on this very topic uh how what was the. title how to sustain an organization for. more than a century and we'll put a link. in that in the um in the episode we'll.

put it in the set information guys but. yeah it's just because yeah i guess that. would be some people's question because. even like i remember we went to pizza. when i was young pizza i don't know if. they have it in your country but they. have a place here it's called pizza hut. and uh. when i was young it was like a nice. sit-down restaurant we'd go in there. people were nice and now it's like. barely even you know it's not as good. anymore and there's just like a bunch of. brothers fighting outside all the time. your country like england is mine. all of england is mine. i'm actually more american than english.

at this point so i've been here since do. you feel that way yeah yeah we've i. think we've had three british people and. we've had you. uh michael bisping. and robbie williams i think are free. three brits pretty cool. pretty cool uh client pretty cool. group. but so yeah so anyway sorry to go back. to yeah i'm sorry no i almost lost the. machine i thought too. so no um so i've written on this because. it's a really important topic and and. it's a reasonable concern if you look at. most companies they don't tend to last. that long it's a little tricky if you. look at the numbers because they often.

merge they don't necessarily die they. can emerge into other companies right. but still most for-profit companies uh. you can think of exceptions but most of. them don't last more than a few decades. and small businesses don't last more. than a few years at all in general uh so. yeah we i did some research on that what. you find is the most of the really. long-lived organizations in history tend. to be either religious organizations. governmental institutions or educational. institutions now there are exceptions in. japan they have they actually have a. number of thousand-year plus companies. and they're almost all very tightly held.

family-run businesses. uh i think that the longest live one was. like one thousand four hundred and. something years old. uh and it i think it built temples or. something and then during some massive. war there were no temples to build they. built uh coffins for a while instead so. it's a little bit flexible. but generally you know obviously i i. went for instance i went to oxford. university which is the second oldest. university in the world yeah i walked. over there one time walked by it it's. cool do you see the gardens yeah it's. beautiful dude blew my mind well that's. been around for like half a millennium. so that's a long time right. um i think the oldest one is you know.

these civil in spain so they can survive. a long time obviously religion the. vatican's been around for a long time. other religious organizations yeah um so. non-profits kind of. the things about. you know for-profit companies which i'm. you know perfectly fine with but they. have to especially public ones they have. to answer shareholders and they think. about short-term profits and so on if. you're really long-term you really want. to be a non-profit because you don't. have to worry about short you have to. make money you have to make more than. you you spend obviously just because. your non-profit doesn't mean you can. lose money right you go out of existence.

right but you don't have to have like. you don't have to meet certain huge. goals you don't have to uh appease uh. shareholders you can just be you know do. your best and stay alive yeah you can. you can optimize for the long term. rather than the short term and you guys. are almost like a school and a bit of a. religion in a way that. i wouldn't want to say that but uh only. in the sense that or a bit of a belief. that people want to be explore yeah. that's what i mean what do you say we're. thinking about some pretty profound. stuff in that in that sense yeah that's. a good point yeah uh but we do there's.

all kinds of things we do to survive at. the long term and some of this is unique. to us so i mentioned earlier the patient. care trust fund when you when you pay. the fee for this a big chunk of it goes. into a separate fund that can't be. touched for any operations only for. maintaining patients and that is. maintained by a separate board of. trustees there's a strict rule you can. never draw more than two percent a year. so even if the market is crappy for a. long period of time we can write that. out. um we have an endowment fund just like. universities which is fairly modest. right now it's just a few million but. hopefully that'll build up and that will. pay uh you know a steady income to the. operations uh we have a board of.

directors that they're not not paid uh. it's kind of self-perpetuating so they. can't be voted out by people who are. hostile which can happen in in small oh. yeah totally get voted out by outsiders. uh we do a lot of different things to. really protect ourselves for the long. term and you know we're in our 51st year. right now so we've been around for over. half a century as it is at this point. that's incredible. yeah it's really really it's just man. the whole thing is really interesting to. me so once you so how would we bring. people back i think that's got to be the. big question now.

yeah actually what's going to happen. there maxie. what are we doing okay the time has come. you guys get the email from whoever it. is. uh you know neil degrasse tyson or. whatever emails you and tells you hey. maxie we got everybody let's bring them. out you know let's do a big thaw or. whatever let's cook you know let's do a. barbecue you know well the opposite of a. perfect well what about yeah let's do it. a slow roast. okay what happens how do we do it max uh.

i don't know is i don't know is the. first answer right because again we. can't forecast specific technologies in. the future i'll do a little bit better. than a second but just to make the point. that it'd be kind of like asking me. let's say we're in 1890 and you said. okay max how are we going to put someone. on the moon and when it's like how the. hell do i know that i've got to invent. rockets that we haven't designed yet. life support systems computer systems. now we know it's possible in principle. it doesn't violate any physical law and. that's the point that we're making. there's nothing impossible about this. but how do i know exactly how i don't. but given that okay uh we can point to a.

number of lines of evidence first of all. i already mentioned we're growing organs. in the lab so we can actually get. control of human biology more and more. and we should better regenerate organs. and tissues and that's that'll be a big. thing in the in the coming years people. regrowing organs of course i mean that's. a that's. if they can do that if they can regrow. tissue that's a huge part of you guys. deal yeah that's a huge part of it. they're making pigs back they're. bringing big pigs back right and but the. most critical thing of course is. repairing the brain that's the most. important part that's where we live. so for that we may need well visible.

there may be a point where we get so. good at preserving people that we do. very little damage now that means we can. bring people back with much less. advanced technology but for our existing. patients where there is considerable. damage there's often some ice formation. that we haven't entirely prevented oh. yeah there's all kinds of damage that's. gonna take some advanced technology. probably nanotechnology i don't know if. you're familiar with nanotechnology um. it's it's something that you know here. people hear the word a lot but don't. understand very well i just saw earlier. the other day about how they were using. dna to go inside of a body to detect. something. um.

they made a nanotechnology out of dna. and we're using it inside it's kind of a. biological form of. then becomes a different form so. nanotechnology can be the biological. form like you're talking about or it. could be more of a mechanical form. basically the definition of it is it's. from the nanoprefix meaning a billionth. billionth of a meter okay so you've got. you know meter length objects you've got. things that are you know one micrometers. incredibly tiny tiny machines people. have built actually a functioning. automobile that you have to have a. microscope to see it's so small and. we're talking about a thousand times. smaller than that so devices that uh you.

know we've evolved these devices. naturally obviously they're inside our. cells but we're talking about actually. designing devices that google inside. your cells we go right here um yeah now. about throwing for your body there you. go so uh they could be artificial blood. cells so you could actually uh robert. freitas who's an expert in this area. designed what do you call respirocytes. where you could pump in all this extra. oxygen you wouldn't you could hold your. breath for like an hour or something wow. because the nanobots will be able to. carry out oxygen with them it's a very. simple example but you can actually. devices that go in there could find uh. you know deposits of fat in the arteries.

and slice that off go inside cells cut. out all the cancer very specifically. take out the plaques that might be. causing alzheimer's disease uh repair. age-related damage so basically this is. like a very advanced technology which is. on the drawing board and uh fetus has. actually a book on on this right now. that we know it's possible because it. doesn't violate physical laws it's not. like time travel it's just a matter of. developing it right it's the same thing. that goes back to when you said well how. would we get to the moon from somebody. in the 1890s or whatever and like well. somebody who could look ahead at that. point and say.

it's possible because it doesn't getting. there wouldn't really defy any physical. laws but not everybody got that point i. mean right no of course not no i'm sure. if you told me i'd have been like you're. out of here like the new york times this. is this is hilarious the new york times. in the i think it was the. late 40s or the 50s maybe uh they they. kind of dismissed the idea of space. travel because there's always you can't. move in space because there's nothing to. push against it's like. do not understand newton's laws of. action and reaction so that was pretty. stupid the british astronomer royal a. guy you know is a yes physics in 1959 10.

years before he landed on the moon says. that this is ideas ludicrous we'll never. we'll never fly in space without what's. wrong this is the astronomer royal so. when people say that something's. impossible. always ask them you know why do you. think it's impossible because people if. they can't imagine something they think. it's impossible which is pretty poor. argument right just because their lack. of imagination doesn't mean it's not. possible and that usually is it's. usually lack of imagination argument. from lack of imagination they need to. better show that it actually violates. physical laws like right now as far as. we can tell given basic physics we're.

never going to have backwards time. travel you cannot forge time travel by. going very fast towards the speed of. light and you know your zone of. reference changes and so if you came if. you want to get out of my marriage or. whatever but you know but you can't go. back in time as far as we can tell that. probably isn't possible so but we're not. talking about violating physical laws. we're talking about what we're already. seeing which is the development of. science and technology the way it. inevitably keeps developing on a finer. and finer level just a projection of. that. how long it will take we can't really. say i'm guessing 50 to 150 years very. vaguely.

but it seems like a good bet. right it's i'm look there's nothing to. lose basically yeah the most i work i do. my bookies sometimes but for me this. legitimately seems like a good bet it's. like. it just costs a little bit but what you. know it's not that crazy if you're dead. what are you gonna do with the money. anyway and it's that's not that yes it's. a lot of money. but when people are buying a lot of the. [ __ ] that they're buying these days it's. not that it's not that unrealistic and. then also if you got to come back and if. you didn't like some people and they.

didn't do it then they wouldn't be there. which would be cool right but what about. this i'll live your enemies yeah outlive. your enemies right yeah but what about. the brain so what would have to happen. with the brain because. or what. what's happening now with the with the. thawing out that or the freezing what's. happening with the cells that's not. there yet a hundred percent. uh. well like i said with a lot of tissues. we can we can actually uh cryopreserve. them bring them back perfectly well. the problem is as i kind of mentioned. earlier the biggest problem right now is.

in reversing the process is the larger. the tissue the larger the massive tissue. um the harder it is to bring them back. because the problem is actually this the. rate of re-warming you can cool very. slowly but you have to rewarm very. rapidly and i won't get too much into. the technical details but it might sound. weird kind of flash for i am it's kind. of yes in a way well the problem is the. ice can actually form as you warm up. which might sound weird how could ice. form as you warm up but it actually can. it's called recrystallization. and uh to avoid that you have to rewarm. very rapidly it could be like several. degrees per second and for you know like.

skin which is thin you can do that right. um even heart valves and corneas but. when you're talking like a kidney or a. brain or a whole organism that's pretty. tricky and so there's a research into. this right now there's all kinds of. different ways of doing that but right. now we can't do it fast enough that's. why we can't bring people back today so. people will say well what you're saying. is stupid because have you ever brought. anybody back well no of course we. haven't that's not the point right and. we don't have to today right because. when you cry preserve you can wait for. as long as it takes you're not getting. any worse. yeah. dude so you almost need something that's. going to be able to reheat the center.

and the outside at the exact same kind. of rate kind of yeah. there's all kinds of actually just to. the conference we had recently i had a. top researcher who talked about some of. the main methodologies of radio. frequency warming and nanowarming. there's all kinds of methods that are. being investigated today. do you believe so you must obviously. believe in that whether we have so much. more. uh. to learn. oh i don't know. we're just getting started i mean people. people often in history is funny if you. look back at some history books you find. people saying that we've we've learned. everything there is to know even like 20.

years ago there was this guy what's his. name john hogan or something the end of. physics is his book like wow seriously. guy. so we haven't integrated general. relativity and quantum mechanics they. don't they won't work together physics. is obviously not not correct at all i'm. sure a lot of juniors in high school. were stoked though. yeah nothing more to learn yeah but. people have said that for a long time. and you know you think about uh sir. isaac newton who created laws of motion. yeah. you can predict uh you know how you. throw a football or how planets move. that's pretty amazing obviously that's. the final word right no einstein came.

along and said well that's not really. correct so yeah i think we have a huge. amount to learn we don't even understand. dark matter and what most of the. universe consists of. uh know. people get stuck in that little. contemporary framework and think well. what else can there be i think we'll. look back in a hundred a thousand years. and say. how primitive we were what primitive. stupid creatures we were back then just. like we would look back on cave people. and kind of think poor bastards and i. don't know what we're doing back then. yeah no it's it's it's i love the the. idea of challenging your own imagination.

like just because you can't imagine it. going beyond even your own imagine the. the the walls of your own imagination. that's fascinating to me here's one. thing that actually excites me about the. future people often say well what do you. what do you want to do when you come. back and obviously it'll depend on what. there is to do right there'll be a lot. of stuff i haven't even conceived of but. one thing that excites me is because i. personally am not a big fan of of of the. politics of the world right today i. think our societies are. doing things really badly in a lot of. ways we've gone in the wrong direction i.

think there's far much central control. on things too much authoritarianism too. many people afraid of things and looking. to governments and authorities to solve. their problems yeah the worst uh i i. want to get i like to just like people a. few centuries ago left europe to escape. oppression and come to america and start. fresh with a free society i think. america's gone in the wrong direction. frankly and i look forward to getting. off this freaking planet and starting. new colonies new societies with new. rules where we can start fresh with all. these huge bureaucracies and politicians. start with a new constitution better. than the one we had. you know which didn't last too long.

unfortunately yeah to me that's an. exciting prospect because we can't do it. here on earth everything is controlled. by somebody on earth but getting off the. planet that's a whole new ballgame man. it's so funny because i was just talking. a few weeks ago about like i wish like. america we could go to a new america. kind of like but now and then. and and then my my thought got to. first that's what i imagine man wouldn't. it be cool if we could sail off to a new. america you know but there isn't any. more right so then my imagination kind.

of shut down at that point and it was. like oh we can't do it but then here you. are saying well what if the new america. is out into the spa you know it's a lot. of space out there there's no lack of. space there's huge resources like a. single asteroid can have millions of. tons of carbon and. nitrogen all kinds of materials that we. can use there's amazing amounts of stuff. out there there's no lack of resources. people are saying oh we're running out. of resources. they don't know what they're talking. about this is a whole nother issue. because a whole other area of this. course is what if there are too many. people in the future that's a whole. nother whole other thing i think people.

don't think clearly about but once. you're in space there's just massive. amounts of resources and that's where. solar power actually will work because. you have direct sun power 100 100 of the. time whereas even here in arizona it. doesn't necessarily work all the time so. yeah i think getting into space really. takes away those boundaries of. possibility and uh we can try all kinds. of new social experiments if you want. your little totalitarian or socialist. society whatever you want yeah fine you. can have it just don't impose it on me i. want to have my much more free society. over here if you want like your mormon. society there fine uh yeah everybody can.

have their own society if they like yeah. dude we need to build like an ark and. just figure it out. um. why do you guys station you guys are. based out of outdoors based out of. scottsdale arizona original and why it. which might seem kind of funny that. we're in a really hot place. that's a good point it's gonna cost you. more the hardest place it doesn't. actually make any difference um but it's. symbolically kind of appropriate because. we're you know in the phoenix area and. of course the phoenix is the symbol of. rising from the ashes and returning to. life so it's kind of symbolically.

appropriate uh we didn't really choose. it for that reason but when we were. actually based in california we had the. phoenix as a logo now we can't do that. because it's confusing for the city yeah. um but there's two main reasons why. we're there and you know the heat. actually doesn't make any difference. once you're in our containers which we. call doers after sir james dew the metal. basically very large expensive thermos. flasks is what your patients are in it. doesn't really matter what the. temperature is we could actually put. them outside and the heat wouldn't make. a difference but like you would see at a. brewery really exactly yeah very very. similar um so the two main reasons are. and this will come back to a point i.

made earlier uh one of which is uh. environmental stability like we were you. know used to be in riverside and. fullerton area well there's a huge. bloody earthquake fault right here so oh. yeah you know storing patients long-term. they're a massive earthquake for it. doesn't seem like the best idea in the. world. yeah it's a really yeah yeah even i. wouldn't do that i wouldn't do it uh. whereas where we are in that area um we. don't really have earthquakes we can. occasionally fill aftershocks from. california uh nobody's ever died in an. earthquake in arizona we don't have uh. typhoons or any kind of weather events.

all we have to do is the occasional dust. storm going through so yeah it's pretty. stable but another major reason is we. had a bad time in california and today. because it's much worse in terms of the. bureaucrats here um but in the riverside. area we had some major problems um we. went through a major legal battles where. we were accused of murdering somebody by. the riverside coroner uh where the. health department then jumped on us and. said what we're doing was illegal. because there was no box on that stupid. form to check and we had to go through a. whole lot of legal battles which we won. all of but eventually you said the hell. with this and moved out to arizona um.

yeah it was it was quite a time like in. 1980 they accused you of murder in. someone yeah yeah it was 1988 there's. the dora kent case you can read all. about it on the website um this was the. coroner who uh this guy loved to get. publicity this is the same guy who. ordered liberace's body to be exhumed so. that he could prove that he died of aids. like. dude do you really need to do that i. mean yeah what a pervert if you don't. know liberace died of age you're an. idiot. so he'd like to get in the newspapers. and i think he looked on us and saw like. a really small organization that he. could crush and get his face in the.

papers and didn't realize what he's. getting into and so what happened was. one of our members um his mother who was. 83 years old i think. and she was dying we took her into the. building which we would never do anymore. for this reason. and it took a couple of days and she you. know. fired there yeah and she was declared. legally dead. and then sometime after that everything. was fine we registered the death and. everything and did the procedure. and it was it was a couple of weeks. later that uh they suddenly decided to. look at that and said well let's take a.

look at this and they go i guess they. had some kind of samples and they said. there was barbiturates in their. bloodstream they said well well yeah. that's because that's what we do first. thing to stop awareness returning right. after she's legally dead now we use. profile instead but it's basically the. same thing. it's not like we killed her with that. plus what the hell is the motive for the. son who has the money killing his mother. who has no money i mean there's no. motive yeah she's 83 years old i mean do. you think she's healthy it didn't make. any sense um then they they rate it you. can find that site bring up bring up. dora ken come on help me out here you. can find it in the la times so there's. lots of stuff on that uh accuses of.

stealing stuff from ucla because they. didn't bother to ask for our receipts. all these wild accusations um she looks. like groucho marx a little bit. or in that picture so yeah that's a good. story that kind of tells you everything. that happened there so you know we it. almost killed us because we didn't. really have any money at the time only. because of a couple of our members who. paid for the legal bills that we. survived this then the health department. this is typical bureaucracy the health. department then came along and said well. what you're doing is illegal oh yeah why. well because there's two boxes there's a. there's a cremation box there's a burial.

box there's no box so we said well give. us a box to check and they said no. so it's a catch-22 right it's illegal. because there's no box and there's no. box because it's illegal it doesn't make. any sense yeah i thought america was a. place where things are legal unless it's. specifically a law against them that's. kind of the point of the freaking. constitution so we had to get a. constitutional attorney spend a lot more. money from our member and and we won. again but this is not the kind of place. we wanted to live really in the long. term yeah yeah we're gonna have to get. into space eventually with the group. um.

so you guys end up over in uh scottsdale. what do you guys do what's the process. of keeping the bodies cool and how long. does that take like how is it. what else do you have to do so you're in. there they're in what or they're in. actually before we get to that just to. sort of finish that story the one reason. we chose scottsdale was uh we had a. member who lived in the area and he met. with the local politicians and it turns. out you know we've had the mayor of. scott still open our conferences we've. had a lot of the top council people come. do tours of alcor and they actually like. us there they boast about you know. having advanced stuff there so it's.

radically different than california so i. just had to put that in there no i think. it's interesting i think a lot of that. has started to happen california's. gotten so. i don't know what it is it's gotten so. ridiculous that a lot of the creatives. have started to want to go to other. places and do different things yeah. they're leaving. arizona leaving for austin for. florida um okay so what else did we what. else were we saying what we do for the. long term too right so what kind of what. am i in if i'm in there am i do i have. my hands up or what if i do full body oh. we're gonna put you in some kind of.

funny position and make funny no no no. what happens is once we've finished the. surgical procedure we've washed out the. blood and we've done the cool down uh. actually we have an operating table we. actually have a. a shape to the table to make you kind of. cool you down like this because. with your arms sticking out which makes. you hard to put it in a lot of room yeah. so we're going to actually shape you um. and then we'll put you in a sleeping bag. a high quality sleeping bag that's not. for your comfort the reason for that is. if we ever have to pull you out and. transfer you to another container the. sleeping bag will be drenched with. liquid nitrogen there we go right there.

that's yeah that's the iceberg that's. where that's before we put you in the. container and are you there doing it do. you help doctor yeah i usually i usually. help out i'm not a technical person but. i'm usually overseeing and maybe. scribing making notes as to what's. happening so those are the containers so. before we put you in that container you. see there we'll first of all put you in. an aluminum pod or first of all the. sleeping bag as i said so that soaks up. liquid nitrogen in case we have to move. you it stops the temperature rising then. we encase you in an aluminum pod which. is a good temperature conductor we open. up the roof hatch which is just down. where you can't quite see it there and.

then we'll put you in what you can see. here these are the aluminum doers i mean. they're so stainless steel doers which. again have a vacuum layer they're just. like very large bloody expensive thermos. flasks so you can touch the outside they. just be chilly metal but inside it's. minus 320 fahrenheit oh boy. yeah we getting in there in this picture. you can see yeah here's a fill going on. this liquid nitrogen fill we have a. truck pull up the back it fills them all. i don't know this is probably a good. humid day because we don't usually get. this much vapor but it's great for. images you've got the liquid knife oh. yeah great for huffing too boy i'd take.

a hit off of that whole room. um and so actually it would kill you if. you breathe it really we have to have uh. i don't have a little you can see one on. the right actually you see that tube on. the right that's a vent so uh we have. sensors so if the if the oxygen goes. down too low because of liquid nitrogen. it'll automatically go on and suck it. out and pump in air because you will. actually suffocate if you don't get. enough oxygen oh dang so you guys are so. it's a really controlled environment how. many people do you have stored right now. uh let's see we've added a number just. recently i think we're at 196 patients.

human patients okay plus something like. uh close to 100 pets. oh wow the pets are coming in yeah yeah. my own dog my own first dog is in the. oscar. falls out of your brain uh he was a big. dog he was a big doodle so no just brain. it would be expensive because you have. to do it but be almost expensive as a. human if it did the whole body and since. i'm brain only myself you know why would. i do that yeah so i actually didn't like. dogs before we had oscar i didn't want. to get one and my wife insisted on a dog. she wanted a poodle i said i'm not. walking a poodle.

yeah. i'm not going to be seen walking on. poodle but we agreed on a a doodle which. is a good combination um golden. retriever and poodle. most popular dogs in scottsdale now yeah. yeah same here they're smart they're. playful they're a lot of fun um so. yeah so when he actually lasted 15 years. which is a long time for a big dog. but uh then he's got valley fever and. other things and we had to you know put. him down but we cry preserved them i. just learned about valley fever the. other day yeah such a bizarre thing. there's a weird kind of bacterial thing.

i don't think i've ever had it. unfortunately but i've never heard of it. until two days ago and somebody. mentioned it um. okay so we have 196 patients. and. people can do body head or brain or. just the whole body or. we just say the neuro but that means. basically the brain kept inside the. skull just because it's easier okay. and um. and you guys have ted there the room is. always ted williams is chronically. frozen yeah he was supposed to be.

private uh when people sign up they can. choose to be private or public okay uh. because some people just don't want. people to know because it's considered. unusual and we have some famous people. who are signed up who i can't name but. yeah ted williams was mentioned it was. supposed to be private but there was a. big legal battle because one of his. family said he didn't really want to do. it neither said they did and so we had. to go to court and it became public so. he's probably our most famous known. patient. we actually get people who are big. baseball fans come to visit him and. really to see where he is yeah and can. people do tours of the facility like. guided tours absolutely yeah we offer.

them twice a week and we can do them by. special arrangement we like to be very. open. so you can see the place we publish case. reports to explain what we do in each of. the cases and what went right and what. went wrong. because it's not standard medicine. we think it's very important to have. very very good feedback on what we do. because you know i'm going to be in. there myself at some point i don't want. to hide anything from anybody so we're. as open as possible to hold ourselves to. account and make sure things are doing. working properly and what about bring up. that ted williams. let me see him we also have um there's.

also a public member i can mention a. friend of mine hal finney whose name you. might not be familiar with but if you're. into cryptocurrencies uh you'd know his. name he was the first guy to ever. receive a bitcoin and some people think. he's the creator although he always. denied that he was really from crypto to. cryo huh yeah there's actually a lot of. people interested in both it's. interesting combination there i could. see that wow that's ted williams right. there huh and y'all you y'all just have. his brain then huh. uh yeah yeah. dang.

it's a handy pretty handsome guy. wouldn't be nice there's actually. there's a novel that came out a couple. of years ago i haven't read it but it's. all about him coming back from being. query preserved and carrying on in the. future really yeah. wow. and has there been proper what. uh. and so once you get the bodies in there. um like where is ted williams brain. right now. but we don't call them bodies we call. them patients okay sorry is that no it's. okay i just i just want to say that. because in our minds they are patients. they're just like someone in a long-term. coma who we're caring for so we don't.

think of this body that they're actually. patients so the patient ted williams is. in one of the doers yeah yeah so with. neuro patients um they only take up you. know as you can imagine they only take. up about a tenth of the volume of a. whole body patient so it's less. expensive to store them which is one. reason we can charge less because the. long if you're paying for long-term. storage for the you know the rent and. the insurance and maintenance obviously. is one-tenth of what is for a whole body. patient got it uh so you're in there. with uh we can convert the pod that. contains one whole body patient with. shells and have ten euro patients in the. same volume i don't know which one he's.

in because that's one of our security. issues is we don't identify who's in. which doer uh just in case someone has. like a really bad enemy and wants to. come in and find them right right more. difficult but you guys know though it's. not yeah oh yeah oh yeah yeah. interesting now there's a there's a the. patient is numbered the the aluminum pod. they're in extensive with the number on. there and there's lots of record keeping. we get that backed up in the cloud and. other places so it's all very successful. the room itself is secure as well of. course we take it very seriously patient. security because they can't protect. themselves so the whole room has got. like metal plates on the walls and we've.

got security systems uh yeah with the. resources we have available we take that. very seriously and what if uh what do. you so what um elements do you need in. order to keep the facility maintaining. these bodies at the low temperatures. yeah so that's a common misconception as. i like to say there are two things. people know about cryonics that are. wrong one is that walt disney was was. frozen he wasn't really no he was oh. he's at forest lawn cemetery he's buried. there um i think what happened was that. there was a big chronic story at the. same time that he died and they got.

mixed up somehow plus it's kind of a. natural assumption right this guy built. tomorrow world and future land and it. seemed like something he would do but no. yeah you think he just spent the adk. well he could have afforded it yeah it. would be then too but no unfortunately. not the other one is people say well you. guys are so screwed when the power goes. out like. seriously you think we haven't thought. about that in 50 years it's like no uh. we don't actually need any power to. maintain patients at that temperature. um we just refill once a week and that's. more often than we need to do with. liquid nitrogen a truck pulls out we put.

liquid nitrogen into the containers that. weird as it sounds that balls off at. minus 320 fahrenheit no electricity is. needed for that at all. so the only power we need is you know. for our comfort the air conditioning. because it's in arizona um. for the computers and so on. we do need power for the operating. obviously for the surgical procedure and. for that we have a big backup generator. outside that will kick in automatically. so there's no delay in the surgery but. the patients themselves will not warm up. we could actually go for several months. without any liquid nitrogen delivery. really because it takes it only bores.

off it builds maybe 12 liters a day and. so it will very slowly go down we've. done a test with an empty one you know. empty of patients it takes several. months to get low down so we could go. for months and there are many liquid. nitrogen suppliers in the area i think. something like seven of them yeah i. wonder if you guys ever had like supply. chain issues or something like that that. if there was a possibility for you guys. to at least have a uh a gap in what if. whatever you would need to keep the. bodies it's extremely unlikely where we. are again because we have so many you. know we use such a small amount compared. to like a chip company which for their. chip fab uses vast amounts of this stuff.

and other companies use far more so. we're kind of like a side effect we just. use whatever's left over so it's. unlikely uh but if there was like world. war iii and we thought there's going to. be a major disruption for more than a. couple of months we can actually go out. and buy our own liquid nitrogen plant it. cost us you know probably a few hundred. thousand uh cost us twice as much per. per unit to make but we could do that. you just need power and air to make. liquid nitrogen so it's not really a. problem for us so do you feel like a. businessman or do you feel like a.

explorer. is that a fair question. yeah i mean i'm um currently i'm not. really a businessman but my position. right now is ambassador i'm the guy who. comes out and explains what we do but. for almost 10 years i was the president. and ceo so i kind of ran the. organization but not really a business. man i'm more. i am i'm well i'm a philosopher by. training philosopher and economist by. training uh i did a lot of work uh with. non-profits and run other non-profits. but i don't really think i'm a. businessman as such but i i do realize. that uh you have to have an organization. that works.

obviously. and you have to be able to communicate. the ideas it's not something you can. sell as such because it's not like call. now limited time you know fifty dollars. off yeah that kind of thing is not going. to work for cryonics um you know some. people say you know there's some people. who are cynics and say oh this is a scam. it's a get rich quick scheme and i i. just it makes me just kind of either. laugh or despair when they say that. because yeah this is the hardest thing. in the world to sell yeah it's the worst. thing to try and choose to get rich. quick you know that's why after 50 years. we only have like 1500 people sign up. for this you have to explain complex.

ideas about life and death people have. to think about stuff they don't want to. think about they've got to make all. these arrangements this is the hardest. thing in the world to sell people on. so um you know i don't think myself for. selling but it's educating uh and this. is great to be on your show because i. get a chance to talk for like an hour or. so because it takes a long time to get. through the ideas for people to. understand what the hell is this strange. idea is about yeah and i don't and i. don't feel so too i feel just that's. what i feel a little bit more educated a. little bit more like hey what what if. your imagination or your picture of what.

life is. could expand or be different. and that's interesting to me i could see. that uh flooding over into. different ways that i envision. everything i wish i had more of that in. my natural life kind of that perspective. you know because it's a lot more of a. perspective of possibility yeah. than it is a positive perspective of um. limits. one thing i would say though is if you. if you seriously do think this would be. an interesting idea.

think about it sooner rather than later. because don't think well i'm not that. old now i can wait you know for another. few years because things happen and i. see this happen all the time people put. it off and then you know we get a call. at the last minute you know uncle bob. just died and can you still cry preserve. him well no we can't because the. arrangements aren't in place and it's. almost. almost impossible to do a last-minute. case like that okay in special cases. maybe we can but we don't want to take. advantage of the family financially we. want to make sure the person really. wanted to do this there's all the. contracts to sign so it doesn't work. that way you need to do this well in. advance right this is a choice you got.

to make to go beyond for the bodies to. come back because the science isn't. there yet but as we see there's clues. that it could be getting there. um. man i feel really explained to it zach. do you have any other thoughts. i think my final question would be like. for theo honestly both of you. say it's 30 22 you come back it starts. what's the first thing you're doing. first thing after waking up.

i'd say when is it and they'll tell me. and i go yes i made it and i want to. take a look at myself i want to know. what have newspapers but i want to know. what's going on i wonder if my wife is. back. if my dog is back you know my other. friends and just start to figure out. what's going on i think i'd just be. ecstatic actually. it'd probably be the best time of my. life that i actually made it i beat what. would be thought of as death and i'm. back and i've got all these. opportunities and that's my first. reaction and after that i don't know.

depend on what's possible right what's. available. man it's a great question man. i'd probably. let me see they bring me back. show me the best movies of the last 1000. years. yeah you'd have a lot of stuff new to. watch on netflix. i'd probably honestly the first thing i. would do. is thank him. probably take a piss i bet. um.

yeah i think the first thing i'd. probably do is take a piss i bet. you know how good that's gonna feel god. and then i would probably have a lunch. or some whatever they have then a new. new type of lunch or if they don't even. have lunch anymore i would see if there. was anybody who was really old that. still knew about lunch and i would ask. them if they knew right you know some. place that was still doing it was a good. place on on whatever planet we're on to. go yeah you have lunch yeah and then i. would feel yes i would be like i.

did it i did it. yeah yeah. tens of billions didn't make it and i. did that would be kind of a. sad but good feeling yeah it would be. interesting and it would give you i mean. the power you would your own dna would. feel at every molecular level to be back. to just have the lights back on. that's. that's fascinating you know one thing uh. one thing i might want to just touch on. is because this usually comes up i'm. kind of surprised you haven't asked me. this maybe because you don't share this. view but a lot of people say well won't.

there be too many people when you come. back aren't we overpopulated and this. isn't going to be a lot worse. and this always kind of makes me chuckle. a little bit because i've studied this. stuff for a long time i kept track of it. and what people don't seem to realize is. that's not a problem in fact we have. maybe the opposite problem coming up. fertility globally peaked around 1968 or. so it's been falling ever since uh the. us is a bit of an accession we're still. growing pretty slowly though but uh you. know all of eastern europe is shrinking. japan is shrinking germany is shrinking. uh the west of western europe is is.

stopping growing and is about to shrink. as well so people are kind of stuck in a. 1960s mindset of population growth. really the fact is that uh almost 40 of. the world's populations are now stopped. growing or starting to shrink and that's. going to get worse as over time goes on. even africa you know its fertility is. dropped massively and when they reach a. certain level of wealth and women have. more opportunities they stop having. children. so even the u.n which is consistently. overpredicted population even the u.n. says by about 2080 or the end of the. century global population not just. western which will stop a lot sooner.

global population will peak and start. falling wow and the scary thing is. there's no bottom you can go to zero um. so i don't think you know population is. a problem in that sense in fact we'll. want people to live longer so we don't. shrink the population so fast and this. is even regardless of going into space. well yeah even growing up i remember my. neighbors growing up they had like seven. children and my neighbor the neighbors i. have now have only two children yeah if. any yeah a lot of people don't have any. of these days he's getting a lot less. out there um so that's not an issue nor.

is resources you know people are. panicking about energy and resources. those are all political problems it's. because of. stupid policies that we're we're not. actually not now energy what about this. what if you say i get frozen right my. grandkid are like oh [ __ ] we didn't even. know him. shut it down we don't want to do it. anymore how do i get protected. oh well they don't have any choice in. that i mean you've made the arrangements. your agreement is with the alcor. foundation and that's our contractual. obligation that's what we do we. certainly be in big trouble if we ever. did that at someone else's wish and. that's why we've had legal battles. because we've said absolutely no we're.

doing what the patient wishes and you're. not going to stop it so. somebody who doesn't want you to. continue being cry brazil has no no word. and no say in the word legally and this. is an interesting point actually because. it will change i think at some point in. the future right now legally when you're. cry preserved. in the eyes of the law you're donating. yourself. uh to a scientific experiment basically. ah because we're you know we're a. non-profit organization scientific. educational organization you're. basically donating yourself biologically. as an experiment now that's not the way. we see it because we see you as a.

patient but at some point in the future. i think we will you know when this. speaking ideas become more familiar. you'll have some kind of legal status. you'll be someone who can't be just. taken out or an armed yanked off just. like someone right now in a long-term. coma in a hospital you can't just go in. there and take their foot off or take. out their kidney they have certain. rights so right now you you know we. literally we own your ass right now. legally speaking but at some point i. think you will have a legal status like. someone in the coma but relatives can't. just come and yank you out no. and why what what do people want their.

pets to become back if oh usually people. get frozen with their pets right no no. no usually well no we don't it's not. like the uh the egyptians who you know. when the pharaoh died they killed all. the. all the servants and buried them with. them we do we don't do that with the. pets now generally the pets are a cry. observe first and you may even have. several of them by that time. um i don't think we've really had a case. of when a member has died and then what. happens to their pets i think they're. usually adopted by someone else what. about the smallest pet you got any hamps. in there any hamsters uh probably i. think the smallest uh we actually have.

two. what do you call those things little. furry things. nothing's smaller than that oh gerbils. no ferret ferrets no no is it a ferret. oh guinea pigs it's not a gigantic. oh great something it's something like a. ferret i think it's it's got a different. name it's it's a really cute very very. soft thing sugar glider it's super soft. what do they call those things it's kind. of ferretish but oh um it's really. really cool sean huh oh i'm trying. that's dog i don't remember what it is i. forget the name but yeah those are. really kind of you can't do the surgery.

on those very well because they've got. tiny blood vessels so they may not uh. get the full treatment pull up a guinea. pig man it could be a jeep baby i'm. trying to think what that thing's called. it's uh it's extremely soft that's why. they're so popular. let's see one let's click on one we did. have a we had a a crank call once a few. years ago. no it's kind of you know. but these are beautiful i remember later. on it's too late. we did get a crank call one time it was. kind of funny someone called us up and. said. well i have a pet octopus do you charge.

by the by the the tentacle or what. [Laughter]. yes. [Music]. that's. insane somebody would do that um what. about that population is population. growth that's really going down yeah oh. it's bringing the growth has been going. down and down and absolute population. levels are getting actually going down. in many countries you always hear all. this population fear what is all that i. know it's it's bizarre it's very. outdated it's like people haven't where. do we find information that population. is going down is it out there uh a world. in data is a good place again yeah you.

can find it pretty much anywhere even. wikipedia which is not reliable on a lot. of stuff well i hope population. look population can do whatever it wants. i think it's fascinating man it's. fascinating to be like kind of like a um. you know uh like a kind of a christopher. columbus on the. on the plane of time you know cryonot. sometimes yeah yeah sort of restaurant. yeah yeah christopher cryolombus. i think this was really fascinating max. man i really appreciate it i i think. it's it's intriguing to think of it.

makes me think of what a new um. what type of like. [Music]. non-profits people could even get. involved in it it expands the idea of. where i even think of nonprofits being. and what they're doing. um. i thought it was gonna be a lot more. expensive honestly yeah most people do. they think it's only for rich people and. it's really not the case again life. insurance makes it affordable especially. if you're fairly young it's quite easily. affordable um but again despite that. it's growing pretty slowly you know. there's only three or four organizations.

in the states there's one in china. there's one starting up in australia. there's one starting in switzerland uh. one in russia which is kind of a. disaster as you might expect yeah. so there's really not that many. worldwide but it is it's gradually. growing i like to think when i started. when i joined i was member number 67 now. we have 1 500 i think there were three. patients now we have 196 so we're. getting there slowly but i think. there'll be some point we'll look back. on at some point in the future and this. would be normal this would be the thing. that is normal to do and people will. just scratch their heads and wonder why.

the hell did people destroy their loved. ones going to bury them or cremate them. when they could have done this how weird. is that so this won't seem like the. weird idea what we're doing now will. seem weird in the future. well i i that's exactly what i'm. thinking about it was like when you were. talking about getting to the moon what i. pictured was two guys and one of them. has a ladder and the guys one guy's like. there's no way we can do it you know and. then i thought about like burial was. like yeah putting someone in the ground. or cremating them. so if. everything's kind of evolving. it's like um. eventually yeah burial would be like.

well you got to get saved you like why. would yeah like somebody be like oh we. have my grandma there's like a nft like. a real life nft you know we ever like. saved you know with alcor you know or. saved cryonically. um. uh about being a normal thing in the. future whereas you know it's seen as. kind of bizarre and strange now but i. think it'll be perfectly normal it'd be. the standard thing in the future. yeah crazy to do the opposite yeah be. crazy like what are you just going to. burn him yeah that since that's crazy i. love him. i'm going to love him i want to be eaten. by worms and bacteria what.

yeah it's like we keep everything baby. you're the freaking. dude you're like the. i mean you're the liaison of leftovers. man you're talking about long term baby. i mean if you hate uncle fred okay barry. i'm burying my burning but if you like. the guy why would he do that or bring. him back later and we'll [ __ ] him up. down the line you know if you want but. whatever to have the opportunity yeah. you know the possibility i like that man. uh dr max moore thank you so much for. coming in thanks for having me it's been. great yeah i really appreciate it. now i'm just floating on the breeze and.

i feel i'm falling like these leaves i. must be. cornerstone. oh but when i reach that ground i'll. share this piece of mind i can feel it. [Music].